Michael McKean Returns… Just Like Spinal Tap

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And then he started talking to me about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night, you know, when the storefront windows go out.

You can really see all the action up there.

And that's God.

I love you, Dan Acker.

The first time I spoke with Howard Stern, I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed.

But I told him that, so we're good.

I just spent the first part of

the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote.

That's something that I never thought would happen to me.

We got Michael McKeon, Dana, who is a a friend of mine we did the movie conets together we did s and l together s and l yeah he's done one million things in show business uh he's part of a lot of the christopher guest movies uh namely spinal tap which we are discussing the sequel coming out very exciting spinal tap two which i'm excited to talk to him about that because i do think it's a great time to bring it out it just the the trailer i saw was super funny so he's a great storyteller, and that's it's fun to have him.

Yeah, he's great.

We've had him once.

We're having him again.

You know what I thought would be a good title for a sequel, Dana?

Yes.

The end of the beginning.

It's kind of funny.

I thought the sequel should be called It's One Haya.

It's two is more than one.

11.

That's what he says in the movie, right?

Yeah, it's one higher.

We have our speakers.

What do they do?

They write it to 11, so it feels higher.

But it's still, it could be 10 full blasts.

It's like a little math.

He goes, Yeah, it's one higher.

It's one higher.

Why don't you make 10 the highest?

Right, but it's one higher.

This is in the trailer.

It's one higher.

You know, that's what it's based.

Anyway, you'll crack up.

Michael McKeon has a lot to say, and uh, and here he is.

Am I early, boys?

No way.

I feel like I'm in a western, and you just walked into this saloon.

Am I early?

Stranger, I know you, stranger.

Destry rides again.

Destri with Audie Murphy, I think it was.

Yes, it was Jimmy Stewart first.

And I'll tell you, since you brought it up,

the guy who created Destri also created another famous character, Dr.

Kildare.

Really?

Yes, his name was Max Brand.

Not his real name.

His real name was Felix Faust.

It gets weirder.

But he wrote Desiree Rides again and a couple of more starring him.

And he created Dr.

Kildare.

I follow him on TikTok.

This is the kind of the thing that I

didn't know about as a younger person.

Like,

okay, so Bob Odenkirk were doing a Western, writing the script, and it comes out brilliant.

It's so fucking funny, but it's really, really out there.

The studio goes, what?

And

I just thought I watch movies now and directors talk about it, obviously Quentin Tarantino, like you would take Desiree Rise again, because I play an Irish guy who's heard of the West and is really fast with guns, but super humble.

And I come to the town like this, you know, and John Lovitz is being, he's hanging, he's about to hang him.

And he's next to signs that he put up.

If I don't clean up the town, you can hang me.

So it was that kind of, it was great.

But I look at the nuts and bolts of a guy coming off the stage coach and everyone thinking he's kind of Fae or whatever the word would be,

and he's and he's lethal.

Anyway, I don't know what it's handy, but you're in a film, you make films.

What don't you do?

You write songs, you sing.

Um, what

can

I do?

You mean at my age?

What can I do?

Yeah,

as an artist,

stray too far from the bathroom is the uh

you know, yeah michael used to always say

aunt bladder have you met my aunt bladder she's a she's a frisky one she has a she needs a lot of attention

or aunt blabby but i'm saying i try to like these switches

nice nice

so so good to have you back

michael might be our maybe second return guest that's all second well we had a slight delay last time.

We were with a different, so now we have you just like this.

We had a slight delay, which was very frustrating because you would go, should I say, you know what I hate?

And then your mouth would move.

And then you go, you see what I mean?

And then we had to respond.

Well, I just got off the line with

three different people who were interviewing us.

And we were in character as our spinal tap guys.

Oh, oh.

And so we had a little picture of this guy and watching him try and stretch 20 minutes worth of questions into 45 minutes worth of questions because he had us for all that time.

So we got to watch him thinking about the next question and then

realizing he was frozen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anyway, you guys, you're a refreshing change from a junket.

Who gets a junket?

45.

That's what I'm talking about.

We've been in the battle lines.

I was in Spiny One.

I don't know what the nickname is on that.

I was in Spiny One as the mime waiter.

Yes, you were.

Yes, you were.

And now you've been told this, but the trailer is really fucking funny.

I love it.

Oh, good, good.

For two.

Do you remember the character that you came in for?

The drummer?

No.

You came in to uh, there was a character in the original version when we were first working on it called the tap head.

And he's just this guy who follows the band around.

And he kept showing up.

And then we thought, nah, he's a little overqualified to be that guy.

We really need more of a found object.

And then we had the idea for the mime thing.

And we said, let's get this guy.

He's great.

Now, you know who we did cast as the tap head was Eddie Deason.

Eddie Deason.

Anybody remember Eddie Deeson?

From Greece.

He may have been in Greece.

Was he the nerd?

Maybe

good children.

He was the nerd in everything.

He was in Greece.

nerd from 1965 to

yeah.

And he also historically, here's an interesting point, probably not interesting at all.

He was the earner of the $1 billion

in residuals.

Oh,

trivia.

He received the one billionth dollar.

of trivia of

payouts from residuals in motion pictures.

And Michael, Michael, I think,

or how did they know?

There's a bar called Residuals for the people at home

in the valley.

If you bring a check in for under a dollar, they put it on the wall.

Is that true?

It's a free drink.

Yeah.

It's called Residuals.

And it's in a little strip mall.

I've been there many times.

No matter how small it is, if you ever look at

your monthly expenses and the debits and the credits, and you see a $1.30

for something, something you did it's kind of like all right kicking it man they're paying you know my accountant i used to get go

are you sure

i'm the guest i'm the guest let me go um so i i uh i get these checks messing out like host alec bald host tom hanks and they're probably three cents each yeah but my accountant goes can you just tell them to send you one check for a dollar because We have to process every single one of them.

We got to put in like 300 checks.

Just tell them to round it up to five bucks and call it one.

What's your residual story?

Well,

it's just not that interesting.

It's just, I used to do the pyramid game show back in the 70s.

And so every time in the beginning of the $20,000 pyramid, or whichever now is the pyramid,

they would have some celebrity wins.

So they'd have me or.

Billy Crystal or,

you know, Suzanne Summers, whoever it was, jumping up and down with the civilian that they just won the big money with.

So they'd show three of those, and I would get paid for those.

I would get paid.

And it was, again, it was a 48 cents a pop or something.

But it was sort of lovely.

It was like, it's not only, I'm not only, I'm not in that show.

I'm in the part of the show where people are just getting their coffee and sitting down.

Nobody sees that shit.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

You know, it's great.

It shows you that SAG or the writers is working because someone's out there chasing to make sure they give you what you're supposed to get with whatever deal you made which you don't even remember i have a good one

yeah go so they're doing uh uh it's an animated thing or it's dogs i think it's actual dog and you're you do the voice so a famous actor i won't say really famous they didn't like the way he did his reading So they brought me in, but it was already his mouth was there.

So I had to match his rhythms.

And I kept saying, this isn't going to work, isn't going to work.

So they got someone else or whatever.

But then somehow I got into getting checks.

And these are tens of thousands of

dollar checks.

That's excellent.

And I said to my, you know, my people, I go, I'm getting these checks.

And he said,

just put it in a drawer.

Don't tell anybody.

I don't know how much I got, but it was big.

And people are going to think, like, well, what was the name of the movie?

And who was the actor?

actor but anyway that's my my residual story i think i so when you wipe down these stories well all three of our stories tepid but that's fine we're getting warmed up

yeah i don't i don't have a better one

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All right, Dana, you know, I'm always dragging around, and

I always got a five-hour energy on me.

I know that,

yeah, they're either in my sock, in the car, they're somewhere.

You keep them everywhere.

I give them a little slurp.

I don't really shoot the whole thing like some people do on an empty stomach i think i eat a little bit a couple sips just like coffee just keep just keep something going there because you chug it

i don't i'm actually yeah i don't want that much energy at once it's five hours so i kind of you know that's what most people do but i sip it overall um there's a lot of different flavors yeah there's one called uh confetti craze that tastes like a good birthday cake which they're all pretty good but this tastes...

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What was the first time you knew you had a million dollars?

Yeah.

It was the first year where you go,

I think I have a million dollars.

You don't have to answer that.

I just come on.

I don't really know.

I don't really know.

I mean,

are you counting real estate?

I don't know.

one actor until he got on marvel uh paul rudman we were just asking him these kind of questions just for fun and he just basically said and till ant-man you know he had his character parts he was doing well but you know how the taxes and all this stuff yeah and all these things that people take out of all the places um

and so it was surprising but you you never know where it's going to come from that's kind of a well put this way what was the job that paid you way more than you thought you were going to get paid Lenny.

Well, that was

Lenny and Squiggy.

That was, we started out.

I wasn't even in SAG.

David Lander and I, no, David Lander and I did those characters as part of the credibility gap, Harry Shearer and Richard Beebe.

Oh, that's how it started.

Before Laverne and Shirley were invented.

Before that, David and I did those characters in college.

at Carnegie in Pittsburgh.

Jesus.

Yeah.

So we, and nine years later, we did them on TV.

So it was a little different.

And they wanted to pay us like it was not even a big deal.

They couldn't give me the part until they auditioned at least one SAG actor.

And I'm going to tell you who it was.

Oh, good.

It was a guy.

Well, it was a guy who knew he wasn't going to get the part.

It was already, no, we got this guy, but he doesn't have a SAG card.

So we're going to, we have to audition somebody else.

And would you do it, Tim Thomerson?

Do we remember Tim Thomerson?

I remember.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Very, very sweet guy.

Big, funny character.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And he had he had a little part on Happy Days or something right next door.

So they auditioned him knowing, and he knew, he knew, no, I'll read for it, you know, and it was him trying to do this guy, you know.

It's basically every audition I had because I just didn't get it.

So I wish they told me ahead of time.

You're just not going to get it.

Because he walks out like this.

At least he goes, here you go.

I'll do you guys a favor.

I'm doing basically right.

I for sure did 100 in a row where I didn't get it.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, easy.

In the early 80s.

That's why I went Spinal Tap.

Oh, you didn't get it.

And then they go, oh, they want you in the movie.

You're going to be in a scene with Billy Crystal.

At that time of my life, that was like, fuck.

Let's go to Spizzler's Steakhouse, honey.

Well, the weirdest one was Howard Hessman.

His part didn't even exist 24 hours before he shot it.

Whoa.

He had hired.

You know the scene that Howard Hessman

in Spinal Tap, they're in the lobby, and he's the manager of this rocker who never really speaks.

So we had hired this rock and roll guy.

And while he was being fitted for wardrobe the day before,

we realized the guy could barely fucking talk.

He just not only couldn't act, he was just like kind of pretty verbal and scared shitless.

So Rob goes,

pre-verbal.

Yeah, exactly.

And Rob, Rob goes, you know what we should do?

We should get him a manager.

I'm going to call Howard Hessman.

So we called Hessman, talked to him for about 10 minutes on the phone, and Howard came in, fucking

aced it, of course.

Just brilliant man.

Great adjusting while you go.

Like those things happen.

No one knows about it.

They had to do that.

Yeah.

Well, that was that whole movie.

And I'm wondering about the style of this one.

I assume it's the same.

You've got Rob Reiner.

And that was the sense that you guys, I guess there was more than a, there was an actual script.

It It wasn't just bullet points and you'll improvise, but how much improvisation was there?

Or was it very specific?

Then the first one and then this one.

There were two written lines in the first film.

One,

live direct from hell, Spinal Tap was written, the guy at the very beginning.

And

Patrick

McNee's Toast.

And so say we all, Tap Into America.

That was written.

Everything else was improvised.

That's what I thought.

You know, that's what I thought.

You pitch that and they go, there's a movie there.

Build it around it.

We pitched one where we said, yeah, we'll write the script.

And we tried for about a day and a half to write the script.

And we said, man, this is not fun.

And it's not going to yield what we want.

We want it to be like it's a thing that's really happening.

So we said, well, let's just a nice thick Bible of who these guys are, who they've been throughout the years, what their relationships are now, and then go.

And we broke it down.

We got a big map of the U.S.

and we tagged the route of the tour with post-it notes and wrote a lot of things on the back of

Grimsby's, we called them, because they were postcards that had pictures of Roger Grimsby, the ABC newscaster on them.

And she remembered that we used to trade him as kids, right?

And so we wrote the whole movie on the back of these Grimsby's.

And that was, you know, some jokes, you know, some like, maybe try this.

Well, yeah, I'm sure you go, you have to kind of beat it out and going, no, no, now the beginning's too heavy.

We're not, we don't, or, or just done in the editing, like you go get as much as we can everywhere, and it's five hours or something.

Then you got to start going, what's important?

You just feel it for comedy.

And if you have guys that are extremely talented, sorry, I had to say that, but it might be embarrassing.

But it was just so popped so hard.

You know, it's just one higher and all this stuff.

All you guys did.

Kevin Pollock and I did a Cockney British or sort of a spinal tab accent whenever for like a couple of years, we actually played Blackjack.

We were playing Harris and we were up there just doing the oh, talk like that, you know, going.

We're just possessed by that movie, like a lot of people.

And so I was thrilled.

And I'll let you talk after this, that there's a sequel now because it's the perfect time because all these other bands are out there, long in the tooth.

And so it like it wouldn't have been a sequel in the 80s, wouldn't it?

This is very funny and that's why it really hit me hard.

Like, oh, this is who they are now is so funny.

So anyway, talk to that.

You have to understand one other thing.

When the film came out, you probably know this, it was not a huge box office success.

No.

And it didn't really find its legs until it...

took off on home video and people would talk about it like it was oh you got to see this weird fucking comedy.

And so we kind of picked up a little steam that way.

So three or four years down the line, they started talking about doing a sequel.

And we said, no, I think we told the tale.

I think we got it.

We briefly talked about doing a

making a film that purportedly had happened 20 years before in the 60s.

when they were young cop stars and there was this piece of shit exploitation film built around them about the personas which which was a funny idea, but we were all cresting 40 at that point.

And you say, no,

they don't have the tech to make us look any younger.

So

they do now.

But

the other thing is, timing-wise,

we did not have the rights to this material.

We had to make phone calls and make deals with people to go Spinal Tap to record a Spinal Tap.

make personal appearances and you know in some capital

make some foreign commercials

um which didn't amount to much so we had to make these deals and so harry shearer who has what we call Simpsons money I yeah

he says guys I'll do I'll do the I'll do the stuff we're gonna sue them we're gonna get the rights back and we did and we did and then we said well now it's like the the dog who chases the car he finally catches what they've been doing yeah yeah now

make a fucking movie I guess so we you know we'd made this film, and it was kind of the reunion.

The guys are dragged kicking and screaming to a reunion.

They really have no regard for one another.

A lot of bad blood.

And we thought maybe that would be the premise and do a big show and maybe get some guest stars in, which we were very lucky that

area.

People would jump in.

It kind of happened.

Yeah, it was fun.

And also, just minimal script or outline and just being playful.

Yeah.

Did you because

Spinal Tap exists, then you're doing Spinal Tap 2.

What was the mindset of that?

Like, let's go to where we grew before.

Now we're doing something different.

Or it was just instantly different because

40 years makes it different.

Well, it's also where the characters are now.

40 years down the road of having this hatchet job,

which we assumed he only shot the, he only showed us with the bad shit.

He only showed us when things were going wrong.

He only showed us when we couldn't find the stage and all this stuff.

What about the night we could find the stage?

So we had a lot of animosity and alleged lawsuits and everything, but then we're reunited with Marty DeBerge.

We make the best of a bad situation and we just go ahead and make the film.

I still to this day, I don't know, if I'm at a theater or something and get tangled up or kind of lost, I always say, I feel like I'm in spinal tap.

Yeah, it is one of those things that is a real thing, but it was so funny the way you guys did it in the movie.

I play theaters, I think I'm in Kandahar.

I'm like, underneath, and they go, This was built 100 years ago.

I go, minimum mum.

And there's no, they're like, there's no working water, there's no elevators, we just sort of wing it.

Well, then you ask the guy, you go, excuse me, because you don't, it's kind of passive aggressive, but is there a way to get to the stage?

Because I'm going on.

Oh, you, oh, you want to go on the stage?

Oh, you go down, you know.

Yeah, I hear my intro music.

They're like, oh, that's you go up these hundred steps.

I'm always

Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton actually had that experience together.

They were playing at B.B.

King's 75th birthday party at the Apollo.

And they got lost beneath the stage.

And then

Jeff said, yeah, at one point, we just looked at each other and went, we're in that fucking movie now.

So, you guys just thought of that, or was it based on something like that that happened to somebody?

It just seemed funny.

I don't remember what the source is.

Those theaters are so funny.

It did show up in a Tom Petty documentary where they got, it was this huge German entertainment complex and in Stuttgart or someplace, and they kept walking into tennis courts and stuff.

But that happened after the movie, but not before the movie came out.

We had shot the film, film and then we saw the Tom Betty and they, oh, we got that right.

Sometimes they say, you don't want to go through the crowd, right?

And I'm like, go before I go, I'd rather not.

And I go, okay, we can figure this out.

And then they're, they don't.

Ah, yeah, yeah.

So you're like in the kitchen, then you're in the pantry and then you're in the attic.

And I'm like, we're trying to get to the stage, right?

I don't know what you guys are doing.

I'm trying to, I got a show in about three minutes.

So it makes you nervous because you're about to go on and you want to, I have to think about my high-quality jokes, you know.

They are high-quality quality.

You have sexuality jokes now.

You know,

I changed it.

Yeah, I went.

Michael and I spent a really nice chunk of time on coneheads.

Yeah.

But I tried to give him the means.

No, chicken pox.

Do you remember this story?

I think I told you that I was, I whispered to the PA,

don't tell anyone, but I think I have, I do have the chicken pox.

So we're going to try to keep this kind of shh.

He's like, oh, for sure, boop.

alarms.

So clear the set.

And then

I only had them like, it was so weird.

Anyway, we talked with Nick Kroll yesterday.

We were talking about Cone Heads because they said you were coming on.

We all start laughing about Cone Heads and how many people were in it and how many celebrity cameos.

It was pretty crazy.

Yeah.

And

how

we were kind of the bad guys.

in that, but it was pretty fun to be.

It was really fun to be a part of Dan Aykroyd doing Cone Heads again and all that stuff.

So, do you remember the day that he lost his temper and tore his head off?

Because he had a headache.

I just knew this second.

He had some friends coming, and they tied him up at the gate, wouldn't let in, wouldn't let the guys in.

It was a couple of his biker pals, as I recall.

So he heard about this.

God damn it.

God damn it.

He curses so like a Canadian.

God damn it.

And he reached up and he ripped the top of his head off.

And I thought, man, if this, yeah.

And it was just this white foam rubber under it.

Foam everywhere.

Scary, yeah.

And he's coughed off.

And looking like that, he went out to the, you know, the booth there

and the guard gate and he ripped the phone off the wall.

God, he's pretty.

I've been making this up.

He's a big guy, yeah.

And that's solved everything.

Yeah, and Dan doesn't doesn't get mad to win.

I mean, he did that whole

see it.

No, he's Canadian mellow.

Sweetheart.

You know, you know, you know, the

houses are haunted.

You know, there's a cult of spies.

You know, he loves outer space, paranormal.

And it's fun to be around a guy that talent, that talented and iconic.

And he really wants to talk about, you know, the other things and haunted rooms.

And he's very passionate about it.

But

True Aliens are here already.

Oh, yeah.

No, no.

Oh, believe me.

No, there is proof.

There is proof.

His brother lived right above the Chateau Marmont.

Peter.

Okay, yeah.

I think.

And we went after shooting one.

Maybe you were with us.

We went to watch Dateline, not Dateline.

What's the show?

Nightline.

The ABC show.

Ted Coppel in the early days.

Ted Coppel.

And so he said, we're all going to go look.

We're going to watch Ted Coppel, but come on over to the house first.

We'll go up on Peter's roof.

And maybe we'll try some of this stuff that we got.

It's some real buffalo weed, he called it.

And it was.

It was three toques and I was catatonic.

But I too remember not being able to speak or move.

And he comes up to me,

Michael,

Ted Coppel's on.

So we're going to go watch Ted Coppel.

Would you like to come down with us?

He was like afraid I was going to like levitate or something.

And I said, no, I'm good here.

I'm good here.

And then he started talking to me about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night, You know, when the storefront windows go out, you can really see all the action up there.

I thought, God, I love you, Dan Ackroy.

He's so great.

He goes, you see him every day.

You saw him one at the grove today at Zara.

They're here.

You know, you go in the room and you know that it's haunted and you don't want to be afraid because you know the spirits are not giving off that vibe.

You know,

I don't think I've ever thrown any costume off

in a fit.

Have you ever torn any?

Well, Garth, you know, when you're on SNL,

Lauren, i'm telling you no

no i haven't i was there i was there for such a short period of time yes that it was really like i was kind of bright breaking the job in just as i was handed the the walking papers you know so i did never quite sure whether i had any power or not how many shows did you do 26 like a full a little bit was that a season and more

it was a season it was the last six of the season before

was mark McKinney with you?

Yeah, in the middle of the second season, yeah.

Okay, one of the one of the nicest men in the world, right?

Yeah,

pretty much.

Awesome guy, awesome guy.

Another Canadian.

It must be something in the water.

Wife's Canadian.

No, full disclosure, that's a my wife's from Canada, born in Canada.

Well, mine's from Texas, so oh,

okay.

Whoa,

whoa,

what does that mean?

I don't know.

Whatever that means, yeah.

It means nothing.

She means she

knows where the good Mexican food is in Houston.

So it's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

So

how do you get let go of SNL?

What happens?

You know what?

It was, they were just kind of cleaning house.

They kept you.

We had a lot of people, though.

That was one of those years where like 22 people were involved.

This is 94-5, kind of, or 94-5, yeah.

And they know Farley was leaving.

Adam was leaving.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

He decided to go full.

And I'll tell you this.

I always say this.

I followed the very best impression of Clinton.

It was Paul, Phil, Phil Hartman.

Yeah, Phil.

Easily the best ever.

I followed his with mine, which was just sort of an overrated

Barney Fife.

It wasn't a good Clinton.

And?

And

I was followed by Daryl, who did the second best.

Yeah, Daryl's best.

Daryl has an ear.

So, you know,

part of it was being hired to play your dad, David,

to be the older presence that they were going to miss when Phil left.

But, you know, Phil took a lot more with him than just one thing.

He was remarkable.

You guys ever have things that pop up that you sort of are somewhere in your mind of you feel

had a weird feeling about it?

So I had it with you.

When I was guest hosting, it's late in the show.

I'm overwhelmed.

I don't know if it's between Dress and Air or the day of the show, but Lauren and you came in and you had a really good Howard Stern.

And it was like saying I was interested in doing that.

And I was just too overwhelmed to say yes, but I felt, it felt strange to me when I think of it now because of you, my fondness for you.

And I, and also that you were incredibly famous when I was still a waiter, basically.

So

on Laverne and Shirley.

So anyway, I don't know if you remember that, you know, but I don't.

I never heard your Howard Stern.

I did Howard on the fifth show of the first six that I did.

Okay.

And it went really well, and Howard loved it.

And he, you know, I've been on his show a bunch of times before.

And I have a pretty good, I had always had a pretty good relationship with him because I told him the first time I spoke with Howard Stern, I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed.

But I told him that.

So we're good.

He would love that.

Yeah, for sure.

And he did love the impression, which was nice.

And I wasn't eager to jump right in with

more Howard Stern.

I wanted to do a lot of different stuff.

Sure.

You know, I had, and,

you know, I think I pitched one other thing, but I didn't love the idea of anybody

kind of like

it.

If I remember anything about that moment, it's that it felt thrown in.

And

I think it was kind of a Hail Mary or last minute to fill some cold shotting or something.

Yeah, I don't remember.

Yeah, you know, you had a good move, which was, I always remember, a tiny thing about Stern when he laughs, you go,

it was a different thing I hadn't heard.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, that's right.

When you hear stuff like that, and you, I listen to him so much and I go, oh, no one's done that.

That's great.

Yeah.

It's hard to find those little tiny hooks.

I'm not a big impression guy.

I mean, I did like five people on total on,

you know, but I did do the best George Will, you know.

Dana's George Will is excellent, too.

I remember hearing that.

You know, I mean, in recent times, like Kate McGinnon, which was very funny, I mean, she would be doing somebody.

Who was the mayor of New York during 9-11?

Sorry.

Oh, yeah.

Giuliani?

Giuliani.

And she would just, she'd play him like a Batman character, like I'm Giuliani.

So there was like true impressionism, if you take it almost like art, or abstractionism.

Like, I'm not even going to attempt, but I'm going to do something that feels like this guy.

And I always loved impressions that aren't super accurate, but have something about them that's even better than the actual.

Because now, as you know, Newsflash, AI could do the greatest.

AI is the greatest impressionist in the world.

If copying is going to kill us all.

And you also.

that's what i love about about uh bill hayter's impressions is it's they're always accurate enough to make you go oh fucking he's nailing and you realize he's he's going to go a little wide with it and it's going to stay

his vincent price or his uh keith morrison keith morrison

because of that weird like devilish smile like he was taking so much glee in it so that yeah yeah we we love bill hayter he's you know he's a at the beginning of snl they would have chevy chase which some people remember in the old days did

or they would he would do gerald ford as himself he would just say i'm the president i'd wear a suit here and and i think mixing by

yeah ackroid was the same thing so now it's so good those departments of making you look 99 like the person already well this gives no one told

no one suggested that that uh dan shave his mustache so he was

he mixed him with a mustache.

And they couldn't talk him out of it out of the stash.

That was probably coming from like improv or something where you go

went with the bike.

But like he is an improv.

They just get up and go, you're doing this and this.

And they go, we don't need all that.

Yeah.

Well, there's a reminder about, I'm reading a book now by Jeffrey Sweet.

And it's a re, it's a

revamped version of a book he he wrote in 78 called Something Wonderful Right Away, which is the story of Second City, starting with the Compass players before, starting with Viola Spolin,

really the early days where you were lucky to have a chair and a table.

And

I think that what you said is very true.

Nobody's expecting us to look exactly like Nixon at this point.

I'm doing my really funny Nixon.

And it works.

Yeah, and it works.

And it was great.

Because you didn't know they could do all this makeup.

And then suddenly, over time, it just evolves.

And And it's very good.

By the way, you did the Invisible Man with Chevy Chase.

Is that true?

I did.

Yeah.

Well, how was that?

That was right when it was during his full heyday.

He's a big star.

Well, it was 92, I guess.

I remember when that came out.

And

it was John Carpenter, who I really liked a lot.

We had a lot of fun because I was a big fan of

you know of his stuff, The Thing, especially.

No, I was just going to say.

Maybe the best.

Yeah, the thing is maybe the best science fiction horror film of all time in my is that right i would have no argument with that wilford brimley it was first time i'd seen him just this brilliant presence and uh kurt russell and uh dickie mazur and uh all these horrible dogs who would explode on us and stuff it was just great yeah and i told them i was down yeah yeah

i i actually got into it and i said i'm going to tell you why that movie wasn't a hit because there's no girls in it

Girls are not going to go see this movie unless there's a dame in trouble, unless they have someone to pull for.

This is a bunch of fucking bros who are getting their asses kicked from the inside by these horrible creatures.

There was no woman in trouble.

And he thought about it.

He goes, nah, nah, that's bullshit.

Well, you know what?

You know what?

Kind of a sister movie in some ways, different, but it was alien during that era.

And they had Sigourney Weaver in her little panties at the end.

Aquila, Kila, Aquila, Kila, Akila, Akila, to calm herself down.

I just love that movie, too.

Man, oh, yeah, fantastic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you like movies.

Yeah, I do.

I do.

I saw a good movie on the plane called Black Bag,

and it's Cape Blanchette.

Saw it.

Sodeberg.

Yeah, yeah.

And one thing I really liked of it, it's a very complicated spy thing with a lot of, you know, where's your loyalties and all this stuff and there's married couples and there's couples who are seeing each other and and they're all involved in this some one of us is a is a real bag here

and it's an hour and 33 minutes thank you

here counselor week we can watch something else now or we can take a nap

not every movie has to be two and a half hours yeah so but they are very much they are no

get lost i was in a 70 minute movie called Master Disguise, sort of a bizarre kids' film that's a whole story behind.

70 Minutes was cut down, and then you have 15 minutes of outtakes.

Yeah, the credit role was 15.

That's not bad, though.

And it was Jennifer Esposito's first really good role.

Wow.

She was an

exact film.

Yeah, she's

very likable.

Really likable.

She just directed a film.

She directed it

last year.

Didn't get much of a release, but it's not bad.

It's really a pretty good click.

I think she's how do movies get seen and released?

I mean, it's just it's hard to, there's so much.

I don't know.

What's what's what are you two?

Do you and your wife watch stuff together like live streaming shows

that you like?

Did you, you know, what are the recent ones?

I'm always looking for something.

Did you see

code of silence?

Code of silence on Britbox.

Very good.

Very good.

Okay, I haven't seen that.

I'm not going to tell you anything about it.

Brit Box, yes.

No, it's good.

It's good.

Code of Silence.

What else do we like?

Yeah.

Well, we like Husband.

We like John Hamm's.

One was good on Apple.

I like John Hammers.

Friends and Neighbors.

Yeah, I thought it was a great use, just like a perfect part for John.

He was great in it.

Is great in it.

I started that Alien Earth, but I don't know.

You have to be into Alien.

I know.

I know.

You don't have to have seen the first 14.

Okay, Brit Box.

I know Britbox.

What was the name of it again?

Code something?

Code Code of Silence.

Code of Silence.

Okay.

I'm going to go back to the bottom.

Black Bag after this.

A lot of great.

Yeah.

Black Bag's excellent, too.

Yeah.

Who is, I got a question.

Who is in Earth Girls are Easy?

Was that Jim Carrey?

Jim Carrey, Damon Wayans.

Damon Wayans.

Yep.

Jeff Colblam.

They were the three.

They were the three leads.

And they were aliens?

They were aliens who cleaned up their act.

And

Gina Davis.

Gina Davis.

Of course.

She was the girlfriend.

And Julie Brown was kind of the sidekick.

Oh, okay.

And she wrote the film for herself.

Yeah.

No, no, not that sad.

No, no, no.

That's me.

I'm talking.

Like Brown Hair.

I know who you guys are talking about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She did a very funny Madonna parody.

No, I remember.

Medusa.

Yeah.

She was really great.

And is great.

Yeah, she wrote it.

And the very sad.

The very sad Charlie Rocket was also in it.

Charlie Rocket.

I'm not going to tell his sad story, but you can find it.

One of the best show business names you could ever, if it was a real name, Charlie Rocket.

Charlie Rocket.

And he was fired from SNL because

F-word, right?

F-word on stage.

On the air.

Yeah.

Huh.

Yeah.

I think it's been fun.

I would have kept him.

I fought for him.

One thing I was just curious about to our basic theme of Spinal Tap 2 is

how much you guys interacted as friends or whatever, or did concerts or charity events or did gigs?

How much were you in touch with this brand over the years?

Commercials or whatever,

what did you do during this time period with Spinal Tap?

If anything, you know, we made, well, we did a Mighty Wind, and our characters from A Mighty Wind did a couple of drop-in dates.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I did see Mighty Wind.

Mighty Wind.

Great again.

And we were the folksman for that.

And we went on the road in something we called Unwigged and Unplugged, where we played acoustic guitars mainly.

And we did songs from Spinal Tap, from Waiting for Guffman, from A Mighty Wind,

and various other sources.

And it was really fun.

It was a lot of fun.

Waiting for Guffman.

We did that in 09.

Yeah, those are all just brilliant.

I mean,

that's kind of an interesting because

in direction, like, so now Christopher Guess is in this, you know, documentary Spinal Tap again.

Is he more in a directorial kind of feel, or is he just one of the cast, or who is actually directing it?

Is it Rob Reiner?

No.

He's the fake director.

Who's the real director?

Well, in Spinal Tap, it was Rob directing the film.

Chris's films, you notice,

we never see who's making the film.

Whereas in Spinal Tap, we meet Marty DeBergi, we see him as a character.

So Chris is a fly on the wall, you know, and his style has been picked up by

five out of ten sitcoms on the air and waiting to get on the air.

It's a real easy way to shortcut.

It's a way to shortcut your story.

Yeah.

get your exposition out of the way by saying, I thought he was lying to me.

But then, you know, and, you know, and stuff.

So sometimes it works great.

I really like

St.

Dennis Medical

with

Wendy Covington on it, and Damon.

No, no, oh, sorry.

David Allen Greer is on it, and he's amazing.

He's become this

other presence.

I mean, he's such a wonderful actor.

And

he's become this really kind of crusty old guy who's also got a kind of a heart of gold.

But you really, you kind of, they lean into both of them so hard.

It's kind of beautiful.

I like that show very much.

But some of them it looks like, and Parks and Rec obviously works.

But when it really, when it looks like, and more and more you see this, when it looks like they're just taking shortcuts to tell the story, you know, then it's, then it's, what is the camera doing here?

Yeah.

You know, right.

They used to call them testimonials, right?

That would be kind of

confessionals.

Confessionals.

I think Modern Family.

I mean, I would get pictures of shows, and it would always be like, what if you did it docusle, whatever it's called?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And does it predate the office?

I mean, it well, the original

is a little different.

Ricky, yeah.

Ricky says that he did base the style of it on Spinal Tab.

But he, but it's a scripted show.

Yeah.

He went about it differently because he wrote scripts.

Yeah.

But he's,

I mean,

he, he, he perfected it.

I resisted the American office, even though I liked a lot of the people on it.

I said, it's not going to be like the, and it's not like the original.

It's a David, it's, David Brandt is different than Michael.

And I revisited the English office lately.

And it's even more embarrassing than you remember.

It's even more cringy and sad and heartbreaking.

And it's like the The Office was a brighter show and it's hilarious.

You know,

I didn't follow it straight through, but I dropped it.

Every time I see an episode of The American Office, it makes me laugh.

There's great people on it.

You're right.

It's a little brighter.

Corell's character is, you know, I seminar.

Just say that character and how wounded he is and how clueless he is.

And it was so in Steve's wheelhouse.

I mean, he just owned it.

it but it's very much the it's very much the american version of that guy yeah you know it's it's a different world and it's a and the second season of the british office is the first season has been on this guy's a little bit famous and he's trying to get his job back so the second season is just crushing it's just

false and he's sort of a celebrity that nobody particularly likes and it's just he keeps trying to exploit it.

And it's just, oh, God, dog.

It's probably too rough for American TV.

It's probably like too sad for network TV.

Yeah.

Too much going on that is really like deep, dark comedy, but not as sellable.

But that's a good observation.

And also

on BBC, it's okay if you make 12 shows.

It's okay if you walk away after 12 multi towers, even though it's a brilliant, brilliant show.

It's like, no, we're done.

And they say, okay.

In America, you go, what are you talking about?

We can get six out of this, you know?

And sometimes that's not always the best choice.

It feels like a 12-episode show will do 90.

There's a little

Boris Karloff.

Sometimes it's not the best choice.

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Dana, before we let this young man go, I do have to say, waiting for government, we're not talking about enough, but let's just, we all know that unbelievable.

And Parker was in a lot of your movies, right?

She's in a lot of those.

So funny.

And I'm glad Parker's got a coach.

I've

Oh, it's great.

And she's turning it.

She's such a wonderful actress.

I don't know whether you saw the,

oh, it was about this.

Oh, God.

It was a documentary, and then they did

a

multi-part

scripted show about this woman fell down the stairs or she was killed, all this stuff.

And she played this prosecutor, I think.

And she was wonderful because she was like, man, she's trying really hard.

This process, she's just, is she not competent?

And they were let in a little bit more in her life.

And she's a woman alone with a bottle at night.

And it's like, she was heartbreaking.

I remember that.

I can't remember the name of it.

I think it's called The Stairway or the Stairsmate.

Yeah.

Stairs or something.

Yeah, I know.

One thing about...

I was not in Waiting for Government, but I worked on some of the music.

I wrote one of the songs with Chris.

I was going to read some more movies you weren't in, if you got a second.

I'll name drop Larry.

Larry David was on this podcast and just talking about his method and his show, Curb.

And

he said the main thing he always looked for is that no one was trying to be funny.

And I think that the spinal tap, obviously that in all those other movies, there was just this, no one was signaling that they're being funny.

I mean, it gave it that whatever you call it.

It just made it pop and it made it, it made it way funnier.

Oh, good, good.

John Cleese had a line about what farce is.

What's a farce?

He said, well, a farce is what happens to you on the worst day of your life.

It should be a terrible, terrible thing you're going through.

Otherwise, it's not going to be funny.

The situation shapes it.

All you can do is be the real guy and

do your best.

So if you're not going to be able to do that,

flat straight.

So in this spinal tap, is there anything you want people who are listening

to say about it?

Or you enjoy doing it?

Yeah, we really did.

I would say that if you would just off of what we were talking about, Paul McCartney is really good in this movie.

And he plays Paul McCartney, but he plays like a legit, a legit version of Paul.

with a kind of a kind of a hidden spiny backbone.

And it's really pretty fucking amazing.

Elton's the same way, but he's, you know, he's like a parade coming down your street.

It's a slightly different thing.

He's great and so deadpan in the in the interview stuff that Rob does with him.

So, you know, sometimes the person who's not exactly an actor is exactly the actor.

Can I just say, I want it in my mind's eye, like, so Paul's here today and he comes on and

wherever you're filming this and do you run it without cameras or do you just say, or you do it like

Gary Shanlin used to do?

I'll say something like this.

How did that work with Paul?

Well,

we kind of,

we just knew he was going to do something in the show.

He was very enthusiastic about it.

And we had a lot of Zoom conversations about it.

But we really didn't nail down what his.

his thing was going to be about.

But he came down to New Orleans and we, you know, we said, well, what if it's this thing that David St.

Hubbins, my guy, is pitching, and the rest of the band really kind of hate it.

And he comes in, he comes in, and he sides with them.

So then it becomes this kind of bristly moment.

You know, yeah.

And so it works.

But as a songwriter and as a guy who's been at this particular

fucking project since 1980,

I just spent the first part of

the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote.

That's something that I never thought would happen to you.

Oh, wow.

And it was like, I was just, I was,

it almost made me go.

But my character had to be more like, oh, yeah, what else can you show me?

David is very enthusiastic about it.

But then when things go south, they go south because this guy's got a big ego and so does Paul.

Love it.

His is healthier than mine.

Mine's full of rot.

His is full of bitches.

It's not even a bucket list thing because you would never even think that would happen, I'm sure.

No, no, no.

But it was, it was pretty remarkable.

Yeah.

I heard Paul on a podcast talking about filming.

Yeah, really.

It's just, you know, we were down there, you know, and the guys were there.

And I saw, so, hey, what's all this?

You know, talking like that, you know, and they go, we got it.

I go, is that it?

And I'll see you later.

Yeah.

So I wanted to sneak that in because I like I like doing Paul now.

Well, Paul did Paul did the best thing for me.

I just did Glenn Gary Glen Ross on Broadway with Odin Kirk and

Terren Culkin and Bill Burr.

And it was like the Marx Brothers version of Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross.

It was very funny.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

And Paul came to the show.

And so he comes downstairs to the dressing rooms.

And

so he comes walking in.

And we had just worked together, you know, eight months before, whatever.

And he comes up in front of everybody.

He comes up to me, gives me this big hug.

And someone, almost like an off-stage loop, says, oh, you know each other.

And Paul says, oh, yeah, we're in movies together.

We did movies.

Love it.

Dude, that's a perfect Paul McCartney thing to say.

And then he's going to be.

He was already going to heaven, but this guaranteed.

What's a better song?

And I Love Her, Let It Be, She's Leaving Home.

I'm just doing Paul melody songs.

Martha, My Dear, is his greatest melody.

Wow.

Martha Mear.

Yeah, because it just keeps going.

It's a long melody loop.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like a really elaborate show tune in two and a half minutes.

And it's, it's just musically, it's, it's brilliant.

But all those others are

pretty damn good.

All those are fine, too.

Oh, we like them.

Well, this is my new house.

The last time I talked to you guys, I was in the magic

crafts closet or my rug rats closet, as I called it, which is where I went to record rug rats during the shutdown.

So

I was in there with a lot of knitting.

I did have notes from the last time.

I said, where was he?

So now I know.

Which is a place with no Wi-Fi.

He's like, where can I go?

No, no.

So is this your man?

Is this where all your stuff stuff is?

Your guitars?

Yeah, I do recording here and and I hide out from the world and the air conditioning apparently.

I'd have to do something about that.

All right.

Well,

I have

David.

Thanks, Michael.

So, Dana, we just wrapped up with the great Michael McKeon.

Michael.

Yeah.

We were just saying, that's great.

He had that great McCartney at the end.

We were sitting on that for a while.

I love that story.

How fun have McCartney in your movie?

I'd freak out.

It's fun because he's a musician as well.

You know, he's in his studio and he writes all these songs and stuff.

And

so that to kind of hang out with McCartney.

I was, I, I, I just, you know, I'm such a freak and there, and there's billions of me.

I'm not unusual at all about the Beatles.

And so that he tagged Martha, Martha, my dear, as the great.

Yeah, I was wondering what you thought of that because I know you have your favorites.

I don't know.

They go around and round.

To me, I was just curious about the idea of genius.

What is genius?

And to me, it's sort of like something that shouldn't be able to exist, but exists.

I'm saying with those beetle songs, you go,

this is my favorite for a while.

And then you go, no, now I'm really into this one.

Then I'm really into this one now.

And you don't appreciate one.

Then you go, oh, shit, now now I just heard it again.

I kind of go back to the, some of the earlier help, hard days, night,

no reply into, you know, just that when they were, I don't know, something about those, they're very, they make me very happy.

Yeah.

And they're, and they're just cool.

But anyway, he, that guy is a great storyteller.

That's great as a guest, Michael.

Michael, a lot of fun.

Of course, we talked about Conan's again.

Of course.

And we talked about it with Nick Kroll.

I don't know.

Conan's Conan's getting a lot of play.

But he was great to talk about everything.

I did feel bad that I said waiting for Goffman.

I thought he was in every single one of those from Beston's show and everything.

So that caught me and I felt stupid.

I think you got the gist.

Well, that was kind of nice to

unpack the influence of Spinal Tap.

on all these other shows that have people talk to cameras and shit.

And the way they shoot, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't even put that together.

I don't know if it was the first time mock documentary, or maybe there were some British ones, but I'm not sure.

But in America, that was sort of this mock documentary.

The way they shot it was new, something new.

Well, I hope everybody liked it, and we'll see you next time.

See you next time on what's the name of the show again?

I don't know, really.

I thought you knew.

Huh.

Work in progress.

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