Charlie Sheen Bets On Himself And Keeps WINNING!

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He came back talking about this guy named Tom Cruise. Oh, in my mind, I added a Z and I thought he was Latin.
I thought he was a Mexican or a Spaniard or something, right? It was, it was

warlock or bust. Yeah.

And I said to Dave, I said, if that, if that breaks loose, we're clearly in the crush zone, right?

And I said, are you cool if I'm the last guy like on this planet that you interact with?

Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen, the one and all.
Internationally known as God is My Witness.

I don't know what that's meant. You need a witness for that?

I just got it. It's just a figure of speech.
Charlie Sheen.

What a career.

Yeah.

Huge movies. You were talking about his run of movies.
Like

from 21 years old, I think he popped into Ferris Bueller with with a cameo, just a good-looking burnout dude. Did one scene and uh

stood out. Yeah, yeah, I think he stayed up all night for that to show that he was a guy that stayed up all night.
Yes, and when you're 19, you stay up all night, it's not a massive

deal, yeah.

He's wasted, yeah. But I guess he uh, I think with Charlie when he went off the rails a little bit, was

too much fame, too good-looking, and too rich. It's just you get everything you want.
It's a very odd, I don't know the feeling. It's very odd.

Being medium rich, medium looking, and medium-ness across the board,

it's different. So he just has everything.
Girls are falling at his feet, and he's got drugs wherever he goes, and every celebrity wants to hang out with him. So yeah, a huge movie star.

By the time he's 21, he's doing Wall Street. It really

is kind of unparalleled how many movies he's made

at such a young age. Platoon and just yeah.
And then he got into all the funny movies, you know, hot shots, hot shots, yeah. Major league.

There's like so many to talk about. And then he does this massive

sitcom, Two and a Half Men.

One of the last ones of that kind of

big audience syndicated

money. And then he really, and there's no real limits.
He doesn't care what we ask him. And he was pretty funny.
We were light and loose with him.

And we couldn't do it in person because I think all of us were sick.

Remember? Right.

That was great. I was full COVID.
Yeah.

Yeah, I enjoyed this one a lot with Charlie Sheen. I found him really charming.
I know he's had a lot of rough times in his life, but the guy I met on the Zoom is a real charming, humble, nice guy.

Yeah. And funny, too.
You decide, folks.

You decide and give us your comments

here comes here

hey what song is this charlie what song here he comes again

looking bad or what is that dolly my body has a right to i i don't recogn i don't recognize it dolly here he comes again all right so our producer said he here he comes so i just

popped in my head yeah i think we're good awesome thank you bro Thank you. Charlie, this is a great place if you're a termite.
That's Emilio Estevez right there.

Wait, can he hang out for a second? Because that was my first there. I wanted to.
They're asking for you, dude. Emilio, do you want to remember me?

Do you mind?

This was one of my things because I wanted to not bore the shit out of you.

Emilio, I just want to.

You're in my research. I'm not making this up.
I was like,

because I was like, holy shit. I saw the doc.
I saw you guys doing all the little super eights and all that.

And then you're fucking, you do, you got, there's red dawn, but you do Platoon, Ferris Bueller, Wall Street, Major League. Your brother

does the Outsiders, Repo Man, which is a personal favorite, Breakfast Club, San Almost Fire, and then you connect with Young Guns. So what the fuck? That has never happened in history.

You both were like children, little tiny kids becoming movie stars like that. Anyway, that's why, Amelia, I wanted to.

We just want to tell you, you're a fucking stud. Yeah, I mean, you guys are.
just,

he can't hear you because I'm on the

phone. We can't hear him.
We tell him we gave him 100 compliments and now we gave you 100 compliments. And it was all love and it was about the breadth of our combined films

in that timeframe. And he said, then we did all that.
We're giant movie stars as children. Yeah.
So yeah, but we were all

in the same boat. What are you guys talking about?

We were all the same. I was a waiter till I was 24.
What do you tell him that?

He wasn't even a waiter till he was 24.

I wasn't in that boat. It wasn't in that boat.

Anyway. All right.
Emilio, sorry we can't hear you, but nice to see you, buddy.

Thank you, bro. Thank you.
I appreciate it. It's great to see him.
That's cool.

That's cool. That's a treat.
But seriously, that was most of your time, Charlie. That was most of our time.
We look better in person. Don't think of this, what you're seeing now.

We are pretty good looking, David and I.

I just saw saw Charlie at the fight. Yeah, that was pretty, that was pretty cool, wasn't it?

You know what? Let me tell you, I'll tell Dana, the funniest thing you said is right when I said Michael Irvin had his legs wrapped around your chair talking to someone behind him.

And you go, I don't think Michael Irwin knows spatial awareness.

I mean,

it was an astute observation, wasn't it? It was perfect because the chairs were this wide.

They were little plastic chairs. I go, Ted Surround is in front of you.
I was like, Ted, I want to talk to you about the shitty chairs when you get one second.

It's too late now, but maybe for the next one. And they were all tied together.

They were zip-tied together. Yeah.

Well, spatial awareness is a funny word.

It's a funny thing.

What you're doing, Charlie, when it comes to comedy. That was funny.
You could have said it in a lot of different ways, but spatial awareness, because we're stand-ups. You know, that's all we do.

So basically, well, he's a film star, but

yeah, you're a comedian.

You know, just, I was looking into some of your rants. We can go wherever you want, but they're all really fucking funny.
That's what really struck me about that era of tiger blood and everything.

I mean, they're they're comedically like

funny on top of everything else. It's not the rantings of a madman, it's a comedian unleashed, you know? Yeah, wow, okay.

I've never heard it described as such. That's uh, are you on drugs? Yes, I'm on a drug.
It's called Charlie Sheen.

That's like rhythmic. And, and how are you doing? Winning, not just I'm winning.
By the way, these jokes are to like Katie Kirk or this most flat audience, Savannah Guthrie, going, uh-huh.

You have a lot of problems in your life. You're like, or do I? I'm on Coke.
And they're like, well,

you're laying down magic. You didn't even know at the time.
Because the whole idea, which I think in therapy, they should use these quotes because they're funny and they're self-affirming.

They're kind of saying, fuck you, get out of my way. We all want to have that feeling sometimes.
But I looked at them as the work of a comedian. I mean, they're just really,

are you bipolar? I'm by winning. I win here.
I win there. Now what? This is funny.
They picked a fight with a warlock. You know, I mean, it's, it's just funny.

I don't know if anyone is, we're trying to think of stuff that you haven't been asked because I know this is your second interview around the book of Sheen. You've done one interview and then this.

And then this.

Yeah. So we wanted to surprise you but of course there are things i wanted to talk about that's one of them but david

do you have any questions go ahead

charlie has a quick question charlie i just want to point something out if i say um you've picked a fight with a warlock right that's like um that that that implies that i would have experience with that or i i'd have some kind of perspective or context with that right i'd never picked the fight with a warlock No, I think that's kind of just a life rule that you don't, you see a warlock, you don't pick a fight, you know?

No, and we all know, I don't even know specifically what my image is, but warlock kind of means like some sort of weird mythological creature you don't want to go near. Exactly.
Exactly.

Did you have any alt? Did you have an alternative to warlock? Was that just boom? They picked it up.

It just comes out. It was warlock or bust.
Yeah.

Yeah.

He's got the phrases that are very catchy, but no one has ever heard. Do you own these? No, they're all

online.

Charlie, part of it is when you're in these interviews and I watch these people with a lot of it, unfortunately, is fake concern for you. You know what I mean? They're like, hey, are you okay?

And you're like, what do you give a shit?

Do you really care?

You're like, are you calling the kids every night? You're like, do you want to babysit my kids?

At a certain point, you start to go, are you really, really, if you really care, I'll tell you these answers.

But you're kind of trying to get a pickup piece for your clip for the news or for your show. And so you're using me to go, oh, I'm going to be the concerned person, condescendingly asking Charlie.

You're like, I have $100 million. Is it horrible right now? And that's kind of a weird place to be in where they're like, do we envy you or do we feel sorry? You know, because you had a lot going.

Yeah, no, but when somebody poses those questions,

what do you think would have happened if I had said,

I'm not? And how do you plan on helping me? Yeah, what are you doing? Like, do you have a guest room? Do you have

a do you have a stocked fridge?

Is there crude anywhere that I could have access to? Yeah, any, right? Yeah.

So it's like Facebook moms putting on Facebook. I don't like when you showed a picture of your kid in the front seat.
You should never, like, what do you care? Are you really

that worried? Anyway, we got so much to talk to Charlie about. I also want to just insert one thing on winning and also the way you said winning.
Winning.

You know, did that influence Trump kind of? Because he really works a word and he really, you're going to be winning so much. You're going to win.
You win. I don't know.

There is something about that word.

Did you win? Yeah, I went. I'm winning.
I'm winning more. You know, I don't know.
It's just interesting. interaction historically, but who knows? Right.

But the, but the book gets into the genesis of that material. Oh, that's what I'm so happy to hear, the book of Sheen.
Yeah, thank you. And it's,

you know,

I kind of kept it,

kept it a secret for years that it wasn't my original material, that it was, it was inserted into my brain sort of as a pep talk, like a couple of days earlier by a baseball player from the Giants named Brian Wilson, a guy nicknamed The Beard.

Remember the beard? Oh, yeah.

So, yeah, I was watching a highlight package of his and I told my pal Tony Todd, I said, hey, I want to talk to that dude.

And the next day I was on the phone and he just rolled out all that stuff, the stuff that the material that turned into slogans and t-shirts and folk songs and everything else. Right.

And so, yeah, but then I couldn't really say in the middle of that, that, that, that, that whole,

you know, tsunami that I was cresting on a nuclear surfboard, right? I couldn't, I couldn't say,

by the way, all that shit was borrowed. That t-shirt you're wearing, not my stuff.
I just had to roll with it.

And then about midway through all the chaos, I spoke to him and I said, hey, man, I'm sorry. I feel like I stole your stuff.
And maybe you had plans to use it elsewhere.

And he said, no, no, no, it's fine. It's, I said, and you're probably thinking that, that, that, that you got it into the wrong brain and hence the wrong mind.

And he was like, well, you know, it's, I never quite saw it going this far. But if, if someone's going to borrow your material, then then spread the love.
Why not?

Well, yeah, because it was the timing and the way you delivered it.

And it's you saying it on on all over. It's you saying it and the rhythm.
I don't know if he was, because that was your rhythm, right?

The winning thing was originally delivered with that inflection. With the high pitch, too? Winning.

Winning. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. And that's why

it got, you know, logged in there like that.

So his material, but then I think through

my filters and, you know, through whatever else was going on,

it became what it did, you know.

Right, because he was being interviewed sometimes by contrarians or whatever, trying to talk to you, and you were just coming back with something so extremely different than anyone would expect that that was part of the comedy of it.

I don't know if he had people interviewing him, you know, in that way, but uh, it's interesting.

Also, losing isn't quite as catchy, it doesn't, it doesn't losing

really isn't, it really isn't

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Charlie, here's a dumb question. Oh, good.
You got one question? Go ahead. He can talk too, though.
You can talk whenever you want. Thank you.
Have you and I ever met, Dana?

I don't think we've ever met. I don't think so either.
No, that meeting.

We almost, Fred Wolf was doing some kind of movie and you were in it. Oh, Mad Families.

Yeah, Mad Families. Yes.
And I was, for a while, I was going to do that, but I just was doing stand-up or whatever I was doing, but we would have met then. Yes.
Yeah.

And David and I had a scene together. Do you remember this? Oh, that's right.
Mad Families. Do you remember? I like rewrote it.

I turned it into like three pages and I came to you like five minutes before we were going to shoot it. I'm like, let's do it this way, man.
I was fucking hammered, dude. I was hammered that day.

And apologies.

But we did have a nice vibe and a nice rhythm and a nice thing

in that scene, didn't we? Yes. I remember that was Naya Rivera was in that movie.
Little,

was Lil Rell in it?

Lil Rell, yeah. Lil Rel.
And yeah.

I

do remember coming to do one scene and I had to speak with everybody. I don't remember enough about it, but if you, if we, if we did a collab

that

I hope it came out all right, mad family sort of was we call it under the radar because it was on crackle it was on crackle yes crackle um turned into an app it was supposed to be like netflix and then it kind of wasn't it

very

kind of wasn't wasn't um yeah they they they kind of bailed on it you know charlie do you remember the story of tom hurts

try to put a show together with us

and it was after you left two and a half men and tom hurts in all all his wisdom, was working on Two and Half Men for years, I guess. Then he came to do Rules of Engagement, another show that I did.

No,

Tom was on Spin City.

I think also Spin City. Oh, Spin City.
And then he came to us because he worked with you and he knew you. Sure.
And then

he came to me and said, what about you and Charlie doing a show?

And I said, isn't Charlie a little bit in the doghouse with the CBS? Because it was literally in the middle of all that.

And he says, well,

Les Mundez likes this idea. I was like, he does.

Even in the middle of Charles, I think either you guys were suing each other. There's some pure chaos.

And I was like, well,

and then it kind of fizzled out. But I thought it would have been fun back then.
That was, it would have been kind of a fun pairing. Yeah, so it, it, no, it would have been awesome.

And so it would have been that instead of anger management, right? Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah.

yeah that's right i think that's what you went into next oh yeah was an anger management was a 90 10 deal it was it it was 1090 yeah yeah those are those deals dana where you'd shoot it was sort of a new formula where you'd shoot 10 episodes and if they liked it they'd buy the back 90.

so it's very it was very interesting because you gamble and Charlie gambled and won again and he got a hundred out of it right yeah we got to a hundred but it didn't um it didn't it didn't catch fire like like we were kind of hoping.

But it's interesting,

it's literally like a 10-episode pilot.

And so then they take the average number from those episodes that air, and it has to get above a certain threshold. And if that happens, then it activates the next 90.

Yeah, and you get a piece of 90. 100 episodes.
You get 100 episodes and you get back end on it or

exactly. Yeah, you take a lot less upfront salary, but you you know have an ownership position um that's pretty significant uh when they work but this one because i wasn't um

i wasn't ready to go back to work you know was it right after two and f men so it's hard to like go right to a show it was about six months after yeah that's that's pretty fast yeah yeah which for me probably felt like a weekend you know, at the time in the middle of all that.

Yeah.

And Dana, you wouldn't like it. It's like two in a day.
Don't you shoot like you shoot faster? Yeah. And there's no audience.

And sometimes you're doing two shows a week or you didn't finish the second show from last week. So you start the week with that.
So you're really trying to focus on three shows that week.

And it's just, and it doesn't, yeah, I think a lot of the process suffers.

Not the thing to get you off drugs. That's for sure.
Definitely not. No.

No.

Most of the casts end up on drugs when they do the 1090 thing. I'm sure.

Because of the pressure.

I heard of my friend, a friend of mine that we all know just did a 1090 deal or 9010, whatever we call it. And

I don't think it kicked in. So it's the gamble.
You know, you're betting on yourself. And I think it's a pretty good gamble.

I probably would have done one of those because it's something you get some money, but there's a big high reward. Sure.
Wait,

your friend did one recently? Recently. That's what I'd heard.

Are they still kicking those around wow

because I thought they kind of went away was it a multi

I'm pretty sure it would have been a multi that's probably the fastest you can do it yeah okay

you know I'll tell you after but uh because I don't want to say anything about his real name because maybe he would feel like oh it didn't get picked up but got it I'll tell you after and okay that's very interesting though that the 1090 could still be floating out there when syndication isn't quite as valuable, obviously.

You were sort of one of the last, not the last, but

your show, Two and a Half Minute, which is still on, you know, honestly, too much.

And it's on probably 12 stations at any given time. When was the end? I mean, it was that when the syndication thing started.
Big Bang was one of the biggest endings. Yeah.

Sure.

We had Modern Family. You know,

when was it on as far as like, when was it? Like actual broadcast?

Yeah, the blog, when syndication was a really big thing still you know because that was Seinfeld the 90s and so forth but I guess it got that pop and you were making a really good good salary

yeah you know

I mean I was I was trying to negotiate my way out of it I was I was waiting for them to say it's you know all right we're done seven is plenty this guy's asking for the moon we can only afford the only guy in America trying to get himself out of like a huge show so by asking for so much money to get out basically yeah I was calling everyone.

Yes. Okay.
I said yes.

Because I had a conversation with my manager when I was in rehab when they were trying to negotiate for eight and nine. And I, I felt like seven had just, I kind of just reached my limit.

I didn't see that we had a lot of stories left to tell, you know, and I just, I, I'd completely lost a passion.

um tons of tons of shit in the background in my personal life that wasn't you know i'm not i'm not blaming anyone but it was making the job just more complicated than it had to be, you know? And

I told my manager, Mark, at the time, I said, if I, if I go back, I have a hunch that something is going to go, it's going to go horrible. Damn's going to break.
Damn's going to break. Yeah, man.
Now,

do you think that was a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Or do you think

I just knew that that's how the planets were going to be misaligned? Well, I think you know when you get overwhelmed.

I think, you know, I mean, everyone says money is the key thing, but when you already have money, you've been rich probably since Apocalypse Now, you've had money, a couple of beans in your jeans.

Oh, not Apocalypse now. Platoon.
Red Dawn. He got backhand on red dawn.

Yeah, it was over.

It's still paying.

Red Dawn covers those Honda Accord payments just alone. So you got that.
And then you go, everyone's, your life is great with money, but it sounds stupid, but it does complicate a lot of things.

And you've got so many complications going on. And I think you had a trailer on the set as opposed to a dressing room.
Did you have a bus or something? Or might have a room? I had a tour bus.

A tour bus. That's what I had heard.
Yeah.

I was jealous when I heard it. I had a marathon coach.
It was pretty cool.

Right outside the stage door, probably, right? Like where you walk out and then

you shoot. It was right there.

Yeah, you shoot, you go in and wait, and then you come back in and do your scenes. So you can do whatever you want in there, obviously.
And probably took advantage of that.

Two and a half, not so much. the stuff before it and the stuff after it very very very very much so much yeah

so um when did you first feel like incredibly wealthy what what was it after wall street or when or for you you know you're in your early 20s when did you kind of go holy i'm a millionaire or i'm close to a millionaire you know teddy stuff right it was probably like in the mid-90s oh okay

yeah but there was about 30 yeah Yeah. But there was a moment early on when I got my first acting paycheck from Grizzly, from Grizzly 2, The Predator.
Oh, that. Or the revenge, as they retitled it.

The movie Grizzly. They did a sequel.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. And so I made two grand a week and I was there for three.
I made six grand. I didn't care.
I didn't know about taxes or any of that shit.

And I went to the bank and just took it all in cash.

And I walked into a clothing store and there were these two kind of fancy vests, not like a western vest, but like a camping vest, right? And I couldn't decide on the color.

It was like a blue one or a freaking green one. And I was like, I'm going to take them both.
Whoa. Yeah.
And they were like, you know, 40 bucks each, 60 bucks each, whatever.

And just laid out the cash. And literally in that moment, I felt, okay, all right.
This is, I'm feeling like a big shot. Sure.
And then you all take both. And then you go, you like that shit?

And the lady goes, oh, there's more where that came from, bitch.

Why are you being aggressive? I don't know, bitch. Maybe it's the money.
Winning. How about you? Charlie,

I hate to.

I did a police academy movie and I was making not much money, but it was more than I ever had in my life. And I saw some pants in the window in Toronto.

And I went in, and the lady goes, those are $60. It was like, pretty woman.

Like, those are for rich people. And I go, I'll take them.
And she's like, whoa. Everyone in the store was like, whoa.
And I was like, 60s, nothing to me because I got $100 in predium. So I bought it.

I literally, there's very few times I've felt richer. We all have that story.
You know, I was interested, and I'm sure this in the book that you'd think, hey, Martin Sheen's dad.

He's growing up like a billionaire, you know? And obviously.

In the documentary,

it's pretty middle class. You know, it's not fancy fancy pants.
You and because Mealy, you guys didn't have money. Go ahead.
You can see our house in the background of a lot of the Super 8s. Yeah.

You know, and it's not a mansion. Documentary.
It's not a manicured freaking. No, no, it's very, it's funky and cool.
Great for a kid.

But I was wondering if anyone in that posse, like I'm fascinated by Sean Penn. Sean, when did you meet? Rob Lowe, or are you your friends? Did anyone have a silver spoon?

Or you're all kind of middle class in a sense?

We were all middle class.

Rob's

the Lowe's came in a little later.

And the reason, you know, he wasn't excluded intentionally, but the footage that the director, Andrew Renzi, chose to incorporate was from, you know, like the like the younger, younger years.

You know,

um, I think by the time I started making those films with with Rob and his brother Chad, I think that I think video, uh, videotape came into play.

It was actually, do you remember this thing called called the,

it was like a Polaroid brand, but it was a Polaroid video camera? Do you remember this?

And it literally

it developed in the player while you were waiting

and then it played it.

It was called Polar Vision, I think.

So that's, you know, yeah, so we were sort of in the cutting edge of like as the technology was improving.

But no, his, his, the Lowe's

dad

was still in Ohio, and their stepdad was a psychiatrist. They lived right down the street.
Sean's parents,

a director, actress.

They married until the day they both died.

And so, but

nobody was rolling. Nobody was driving a fancy car or fancy duds or

picking up a check.

So yeah,

it was really a cool time to

just experience all of that and not have a ton of excess and special effects and bullshit sort of in the way of

those memories, you know? And Super 8 or whatever that was is so, it's just so emotional, you know.

And I think it's funny, like every kid who ever got a hold of a camcorder or whatever, they always want to do war scenes or crime scenes and want to do a death scene. Like, ah, you know, for sure.

Did you have a good go-to move? Like, oh,

um,

yeah.

The platoon move is a big one.

Willem Dafoe.

Oh, yeah. The whole, yeah.
Oh, yeah.

The crucifixion. That's been reenacted all over.
Yeah. I actually, um, I have that as a sticker in my phone that I send people.
When I know how to respond, it's just Dafoe. It's like that.

So if you get, if you get that, it just means I'm stumped, you know? Fuck it, send me that. It is interesting of like the trifecta.

I think you, for Vietnam War films, you know, you'd say Deer Hunter, Platoon, and Apocalypse Now,

and there was a sheen in two of them. And I think that that film really,

along with Wall Street and others, really holds up. You know, Platoon has some magic to it.
Thank you. And

would you put full metal jacket in there anywhere?

I put anything Kubrick does as a given. Yes.
Yes, I would. That's a good call.
Full metal jacket, anything Kubrick pretty much, you know,

sure, just magic, you know. Pop Looks Now, brilliant.
Uh, master tunes, masters, and Deer Hunter, you know, the Mao,

you know, with Christopher Walken, one of the greatest, most intense scenes ever made. So, yeah, but you're part of that, and it's pretty cool.
Thank you, thank you, Charlie.

What movies did you turn down that sting the most?

And I'll tell you which one if it's Opportunity Knox, I'm so sorry.

If it's Tommy Boy, I'm going to be

sorry, it's between you and me. No, go ahead.

I turned down

white men can't jump.

Oh, for what?

Were you going to be woody or white?

I would have been woody, yeah. And then

just coincidentally, a bit later on, I think it came after, maybe before, I turned down Indecent Proposal. Whoa.

So I kept waiting

for Woody to send me some flowers and thank me for advancing his career like I did. Those were big.
I found indecent proposal. You know, I'm a huge Redford fan, God rest his soul.

Um, end of me more and everything, but I just found the movie very depressing. Woody's character was so, like, I mean, that was the only thing I'd say about Dodge.

I don't know, it just wasn't my favorite movie, although it's skillfully, brilliantly done. I just was like,

you know, I couldn't get past the thing that, all right, they did that. He's got the money to, you know, to lessen the sting a little bit.
Yeah.

And then spends it all on that tchotchki right right like the little jade elephant or something or yeah yeah or am i misremembering that um no it was something weird it was a very

love was real and it wasn't about money and it wasn't about this but they still have to stay married and live with that moment right with the thing with thread for tough yeah you know charlie's agent wrote back charlie likes it uh

but wants to tweak the ending

pretty much and they said it's we're pretty locked in the ending. He said, That's a pass from Charlie.
That's pretty much how

did you

see Broke Back Mountain and call your agent? Why the fuck wasn't I up for this?

Yeah, um, I have to admit, um, it's kind of one of those films that's always been on that unseen but need to get to it list, you know, and I think that we all sort of have.

Um, yeah, so I never, I never saw it, but I hear it's fabulous. Well, it's it's yeah, it's it's it's a little heartbreaking, but yeah, the performances are exceptional.

Sure. Yeah.

Good fellas. Good fellas.
We're up for that.

I was not up for good fellas. No.
Karate Kid.

Karate Kid is one that

I actually had.

I don't know if I could classify it as turning it down or describe it as turning it down.

I just, I, I, you know, it's in the book. It's in the dock, I think.

And

that I just asked asked for some time because the advice from my dad was to was to stay, to honor my word with Grizzly.

And because I'd already, you know, committed to that.

Fucking

fiction.

That fucking bear,

that bear ate me twice, right? Jaws on land. Yeah.
Grizzly.

So he said,

if they wait for you, it's meant to be.

If they don't, then it's your,

you know, your reputation, being a man of your word is going to carry you further than one big movie.

From afar, I do have a lot of admiration for your dad. I did meet him and I did something with him one time.
It was just a charity event. We were all doing Shakespeare with Tom Hanks, but that's good.

Yeah. Well, it was kind of like pretend fun Shakespeare.
Was it in the park? They do that in the parking lot. No, it was in Santa Monica in the theater.

It's reading, right? Isn't it all? Yeah, but then we all go on stage and sort of kid around and are reading. You You know, I'm doing impressions and things, and that's Shakespeare.

You know, one thing I was going to ask because

people who've been in brilliant films around brilliant people, uh,

the

you know, you've ever been across your partner, man, or woman, and went, damn, you know, this person is exceptional, or someone who kind of took you aback a little bit by just how great they were at this thing called acting.

Sure, you know, who, who, who, who might the who was that? I wanted to bring up the elevator scene with your dad

that that was one of those moments um where you actually

you get distracted because you're you become an audience member and then wait but you're in the scene and it's my line uh you know what i mean it's like those moments and i had i had some of them with michael douglas on the same movie definitely had him definitely had him with dad um even though he's only in it you know just a little bit james spader in wall street i was kind of like going oh

so they're doing it like that now. You know what I'm saying? It was like this whole

thing.

And then, yeah,

who else? Who else?

Oh, shit.

Michael J. Fox.
Yeah. Just when we had a couple, we had a couple scenes together.

He had transitioned out and I had stepped in,

but he wanted to stay close enough to it to

bridge the

transition, you know?

And yeah,

we did some scenes together and

it was other level talent i was like he was out i mean you look at back you take a look at back to the future i was like i'm doing trump but uh that's hard to do you know and i know he replaced eric stolz who probably was great but to be light play it dramatic and and ride that whole wave of those movies yeah michael j foxes i don't know if he's underrated or appropriately appreciated but that's a great that's a great question but it's interesting because there's a thing that i do describe in the book and it's it's it's really there for a reason, you know, not just to celebrate and honor him, but also because that's like, that's my last outpost

before going on to two and a half.

So I was kind of symbolically implying like, okay, I borrowed a little bit from this dude, you know, because there was tons flying off of him and took it over to that thing.

And we know we saw how that thing.

went, you know, so well, it's rare. Can you imagine how excited when they get two two and a half men together and Chuck Laurie and

the cast is there? And then you're just, you're winning, you're killing it. Like, because it is a skill set and you started in Spin City, but then

it's hard to find a leading man, handsome leading man, who can also be very funny, you know? So they must have been high-fiving at some point back behind the scenes.

you know, just because you're, you're, you're great at this too, you know? Thank you. Thank you.
But it was just playing the straight man, you know? And when I did it in the hot shots.

But yeah, and some of that shots.

That's right. But when I did it in hot shots, I was borrowing a lot of stuff from Leslie Nielsen.
Yeah.

Who better at borrowing? That was the theme of

the feel.

Love that movie, hot shots. Oh, thank you.
Thank you. Really?

And then I was borrowing stuff from Ted Danson on cheers for

two and a half. But I know he's a sober bartender and I was a drunk jingle writer, but just as far as

the straight man and

you know what I'm saying,

he's kind of the anchor and all the all the craziness revolves around, you know, orbits,

his star, his planet. But you're not putting huge spin and overacting.
You're not like Kramer. You know what I mean?

You're just saying your lines and they sell themselves with good writing and they know how to write for you.

It's hard to be a funny straight man like Andy Griffith was to

bar funny. Thank you.

Especially coming from you guys. Come on, two, two, you know, veterans

and,

you know, extremely successful veterans to get comedic compliments from you guys is really badass. So thank you.

Well, don't you and your and your own personal life, you know, kind of fall in love with talent.

you know it's just kind of fun to watch you know and i and i i was this was maybe a clumsy thing but you know i thought of people who get out fast you know and it's it's a rare but it's kind of come that are very talented like what i'm talking about woody allen and i'm talking about the beatles bob dylan you know by 21 22 brando and you were kind of in in that group in a way i'm just saying loosely because you came out so good and so showed so much talent but are you know who it musically who's your who's your north star like when you the canon of rock and roll are you Pink Floyd?

Are you Neil Young?

Led Zeppelin. Oh, I just watched that documentary on the plane.

They were pretty good. Yeah.
Yeah, I think they got a shot.

That's probably legendary front man, Led Zeppelin. Yeah.
What did you think of the dock?

Did you like it? I thought it was pretty good. You know, I always like when it gets to more, I don't always like the beginning.

I like to know just to where I knew them, you know, and but it was very interesting and everyone loved it. So I watched on the plane.
It it was perfect. I ate it up very quickly.
I love it.

Yeah, yeah, it's excellent. What was your thoughts? I love playing.
I would have liked that they got to, if they'd taken it to Zep 4.

Right. It could have been there you go.
Yep. Yeah.
Yeah. Because that's the one.
I only started to get to the stuff I really liked. And I was like, wait, is that it? It's over.

I was like, go, go, go, go, go. Yeah.
Oh, we're landing. That's true.
It was interesting for a doc to show them.

I guess it was on a TV show or somewhere, but you showed them really jam for like 12 minutes or something like really go song to song i think they showed one full song i think it was rock and roll they showed the whole i think you're right yeah and i was like this is the one that's probably i mean as good as any uh oh question charlie you collect things and uh i'm sort of been in your orbit we're we're roughly the same age roughly in show biz you're you're obviously doing a ton of stuff way more but In a weird way, I remember I'd heard I was at an Elvis auction at Butterfield and Butterfield in the old days.

I sometimes buy collectibles and shit. And I think you're into maybe baseball cards.
I've always heard that. And was there an Elvis

green Amex you bought Ever? Because I think I had my eye on one of those. Wow.
I said, I think Charlie Sheen got it. You know, I'd love $50,000.
That's the kind of rumor that you want to embrace.

That's a cool one. That's cool.
Yeah. Because then when the bill comes, everybody's kind of waiting for you to drop that thing.

Because

you can buy

Dane. I bought an Elvis set list, you know, like he wrote on the, on some Michigan Hilton.
He was writing all the songs like Love Me Tender, his handwriting and shit. Oh, wow.

And so I bought that and I bought a gun he had and I bought something else, but I wanted this Amex, but it was too rich for my blood. And what did it? Because I didn't buy it.

This is the first I'm hearing about this Elvis auction. It sounds awesome.
What, how much did the Amex go for? 50,000. 50,000.
And that was

20 years ago. What? Because I was at the auction and Joey Esposito was there.
So they were like authenticating stuff.

And I bought a watch. And I don't have, I don't think, anything left from that because I lost the set list.

But I bought stuff before and I thought, oh, I think Charlie does

maybe baseball cards or just, or maybe baseball. I don't know.
Yeah, I've got are you in and out of that biz or not? I've sold everything. Okay.
And I should have come to that garage sale.

Jesus jesus christ what what did you how what did you sell that was um

i i had i geez i i had something like from every era i had a lot of babe ruth stuff i had that famous um long white overcoat that he's seen in tons of photos oh had the coat oh you had the coat yeah yeah i had the coat i mean there's probably more than one but i had one of three probably um yeah i had uh a lot of jerseys um i had a lot of caps a lot of hats, some great bats.

But there was a turning point moment where, because I had these cool cases built at my house up in Malibu Lake years ago, and I had been to the Hall of Fame for the first time.

And I thought, kind of, this is back then, like in 1991. And I thought what they had, how they had set it up was a bit shoddy.

I thought this, I could see like a moth like down in the corner behind the glass. And I was like, what are they doing? Right.

Yeah. And so

I was inspired by it. I wanted my cases in my house to be like nicer than the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, right?

And so we brought in the right people and, you know, and they and they delivered that, right?

But

then

a couple of years later, I was looking for something and I opened a dresser drawer up in my bedroom and there's a 1941 Ted Williams Rode jersey, like just folded nicely and in the drawer.

And I had, I had that, you know, it's the area hit, you know, 406 and all that. And

I had that moment of if I don't have room on a wall for this, like this is the last time that anybody ever did the thing he did while wearing that,

then I need to, I need to recirculate a lot of my these artifacts and antiques and just let others enjoy them. And then I

Lelands put together an auction and it was all sent back out into the world.

Interesting. And some cards or not a Honus Wagner card or was it,

I had one called like the five pinhole card because they're just so graded so anally and they have to describe everything. And I guess

I guess some kid back in the 20s like was sticking it up on a on a on a board or somewhere in his bedroom. Oh, and there was holes in it.

Yeah, but don't you think you'd at least just keep using the same hole? Why did he have to make

five holes?

No, those dip shits. They're ruining cards for the future.
I don't know.

Yeah, they really were. But I'm sure that went a little pricey.

Yeah,

it was up there, but not nearly when that Wagner card really got everyone's attention when Ratzky partnered with,

was it McNall? Guy name McNall,

and they paid like, what'd they pay for that? Like 500 grand. And everybody was like, this is out of control.
And now you think about that, that's like chump change, right? Yeah.

I mean, all that stuff just keep, it's one of the few niche places that just keeps going up faster than stocks. It's they just

people have a passion and

collect their passion. And even, you know, Jay Leno probably has made more money.
You know, he won't sell his cars,

but he probably, if he did, he'd make more money off his passion than even easily.

You know,

I have a friend who collects antique bottles and his collection is worth $3 million.

He's just dug them out of the San Francisco Bay because it was all landfill and you go in there at night i went with them and you dig where they're expanding the building where you're digging down a hole and then you see this little two inches of ash and that's 1906 the earthquake and the fire then you go further and you're pulling out shoes and stuff once in a while you get a bottle you know that's worth fifty thousand dollars you know so it's interesting to further and you're in china yeah you know one thing i was going to ask charlie about because i was seeing you know that cooperstown has this i want to have more and we all have this 10 year old boy inside of us and it's sometimes it's it's necessary to have success is just to have a fair play

uh competitive instinct they do that i mean nicholas cage was so competitive i did a movie with him and we just made we made fun of the competition you know because because um kurt russell was in tombstone and he had a line in the movie you're gonna throw down boy

if you remember the movie to billy billy bob thornton who weighed 220 pounds so when nicholas thought i did something good you threw down you really threw down today.

You know, wow,

wow, what film did you guys do? Uh, the films I do aren't even on video and they're banned from Earth. No, it was Trapped in Paradise.
Oh, we wandered around in the snow.

We fell around in the snow, me, him, and John Lovitz for three months, and somehow they put something together. Okay, but Nicholas was a blast.
He is, isn't he?

One of the funniest, yeah, brightest guys that I've ever met. Was he one of your Malibu guys?

was cage, your relationship with him. Yeah, no, he's not a Malibu guy, um, he was a town guy and a um, and a Bay Area guy, sort of back and forth.
You know, I'm sorry, what was the last question?

Um, well, I just wanted to know about your relationship with him, you know, because you guys kind of hung out.

I know there was you know, extracurricular activities, but just as a person, I found him very charming. And he's he's one of my favorite people.
Um, I we don't see each other enough,

but when we do,

it's quite special.

Yeah, because you talk about his intellect, you know, and then you wrap that inside of

this

outlandish sense of humor just that is rooted somewhere outside of what us mortals can grasp. And it's...

It's an insane and beautiful mashup.

He never saw acting as having to be accurate. You know, he just found that you could do whatever you wanted with it.
So he's doing a scene. It's this cheesy movie.

And he's supposed to come in and kind of ask for forgiveness for this girlfriend or something like that. And he goes, I'm going to do Daniel Day Lewis from

my father and this take. So he comes, all of a sudden he comes out screaming, falls to his knees, why, why, why?

And I was like, you can do that? I mean,

he's a unicorn. I mean, there's no rules with him.
There's no rules with him. And to have that kind of courage inside

those spaces is

to be marveled at, you know? Yeah.

So I got something. Was Tom Cruise in any of your early movies?

Did you know he was going to be a big deal?

We knew, yeah, pretty soon because when Chris, Sean's younger brother, Chris Penn, dropped out of high school and bum rushed that set of taps on the other side of the country.

He came back talking about this guy named Tom Cruise.

In my mind, I added a Z and I thought he was Latin. I thought he was a Mexican or a Spaniard or something, right?

And then when I met him, I was like, oh, you're from Oklahoma. And then he smiles and

then you start to engage his personality and his intellect. And you're like, yeah, this guy, this is, there's something going on here for sure.
But Emilio and he became really tight because

they were auditioning for the outsiders at the same time and helping each other prepare for their auditions. And then they both got it, the different roles.

And

they've been great friends ever since. So I was, you know, I was younger than them.
So I was kind of like tagging along. But anytime I've, you know, seen Tom over the years, wherever, he's awesome.

You know, well, it's just become

these last few years, it's like you sort of just stand back in awe, you know, because I'm basically a baby, you know, I may be hung from a wire once, but you know, he's hanging on to airplanes, and I know like I'm strapped down.

He's holding his breath for six minutes. I mean, you can't even,

what the fuck? So, you have to see the movie. What the fuck? Yeah.
Right?

Yeah. But do you think at some point

he's going to want to get back to like a magnolia? Right. Right.
Oh, yeah.

Right. Which was a work of art.
And he was spectacular in that. Yeah.
What You got to respect the cock. I'm sorry.
Was that it?

That was it. That's it.
Yeah.

He said it better than I did. But yeah.

He's a force of nature. It's funny because Sandler has the ability to go from a Paul Thomas Anderson movie to a big, broad, happy Gilmore.
And he goes back, Noah Bomback. Then he goes back to a broad.

And I think Tom obviously can do anything he wants, but you're right. These are important.
But Mission Impossible, the Top Gun, it's huge, huge blockbusters. But would he want to go small again?

Would he want to go?

He could get an Oscar. He's great.
I think if Christopher Nolan called him or somebody like that, he might get his attention. I think so.
I think so.

I mean, he does want to make movies that fill theaters and give people

that experience that connects them back to their childhood.

He's the savior of that.

I think he's made himself the guy, the spokesman. He and the filmmakers know this, but it was in Roman Holiday a long time ago.
But basically, non-verbal with music.

So, the end of Top Gun, you have a six-minute montage

of the end of the movie, of people tearing up, no real dialogue and saluting. And we were alive and we did this.
And I've seen other films do that, F1 and

where there's this silent movie added onto the movie, and it's very affecting. You know, that three or four minutes where you're seeing them in tears looking at each other.

And it's all a lot of the blockbusters are using that now.

So it's just kind of interesting to me but top gun really got me emotionally because you know i hear hans zimmerman i hear just the music i'm kind of it gets me emotional sure and then you see tom cruise is really good at hugging someone coming back he's got this look and the teary eyes and the gets you

yeah yeah he he he insists that that that that we experience that moment with him right right yeah now is that the first top gun that you're referring to or is that is this the the second second one

got it got it Okay, yeah, which came out of nowhere and was an in-movie theater big hit when the industry really needed it, obviously. But and they tried to

stream it, didn't they?

Whoa, he got on his watch.

No, no, no, no, he stuck to his young gun. Speaking of that, in 1988,

thank God they didn't wait 30 years between grizzlies,

right? I mean,

that would have been

a disaster, you know?

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Shit, I think we're out of time, Dana.

I think we had a wrap with Charlie Sheen. Any wrap-up questions for this guy?

Not really. I think the book is the book of Sheen, the documentary.
I mean, we, you know, we consciously, we talked about it. We didn't want to,

we know you've done a lot of press. We wanted to make this lighter and more fun and wanted to pick your brain about relationships with your dad or whoever.
Sure. No,

this has been incredibly refreshing. Um, good, that's what we wanted.
Thank you. And if I'd like to believe that I get invited back,

yes,

that'd be amazing. And then we can do it like and be in the same room.
Are you feeling okay with the thing that happened? Or oh, yeah, yeah, I'm totally

just okay. I just want to get one, didn't want to give you anything, but yeah, no, no, no,

and thank you. I appreciate that.
But I do have a question for David. Um, good.

And um,

there was a weird moment during the fight, right? And as soon as, like, I'm, you know, and Michael Irvin's, he's, he's a lovely man.

He's just beautifully all over the place, but what a good dude. But when, when I look over and I see

Dave's name on the chair next to me, I was like, okay, all right.

I'm going to have some backup. Reinforcements come in.
I don't know why I thought that, right?

So he sits down and I'm like, did they plan this? Knowing that this was already scheduled, right?

So they finally cut the chairs apart. Everybody's having a great time.
And I look up and I see this giant rig, like where they had speakers and the lights

weighs like, you know, four

hundred thousand tons, right?

And I said to Dave, I said, if that, if that breaks loose, we're clearly in the crush zone, right?

And I said, are you cool if I'm the last guy like on this planet that you interact with?

And he took a beat.

He took a beat and

said something to the effect of, yeah, yeah,

I think I'm okay with that. And I said, good, because I'm okay with it being you too, you know? And so we really bonded there.
I felt like we bonded there, man. And clearly it didn't fall.

But is that? No, but I like that you put that in my head. I think I was taking a beat because I was thinking, what are the, does he know something I don't? Is this going to fall?

And then Marshawn Lynch sat in front of me and blocked 110% of the fight. Oh my gosh.
His head is this big. I go, wow.
Wait, is the fight over?

I go to watch on the screen now.

I do that all the time. Can this fall? Or is this going to be fine? Also, Dana,

they show Michael J. Fox on the screen and I go, for no reason.
You can tell he's still mad at you, Charlie. That was funny.
That was funny. Yeah.
Based on nothing. That was excellent.
That was funny.

Can't wait to be at the farm with Charlie. I'm just laughing because I want you.

Do you mind doing Michael J. Fox Casualties of the War just for Charlie? Oh, me?

If you don't.

Remember that movie, Charlie? I do.

I love Michael J. Fox.
And Sean 10 is grabbing this. Yeah.

And he's like, hey, Sarge, hey.

You got to give me a minute on this here, Sarge.

Oh, Christ. She's just a farm girl, Sarge.
What are we doing here?

That's amazing.

It gets me. It gets me every time.
That's such an obscure, specific impression. Michael J.
Fox in that movie, I was like, and Clarky was John C.

Riley, and Sean Ben's like, fucking Clarky, throw her down and take her clothes off. I'm like, hey, we got to get these VC gooks.
These VC gook whore. I'm like.
What is this movie?

I thought it was a fun comedy because it was Michael J. Fox.

I'm like, this movie took a dark turn and never turned back.

Yeah, they're

whatever. That's a funny

Sean was hard on him during that film, wasn't he? Oh, on Microsoft Fox. Method acting and whatever.
Yeah, I had heard about that. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, apparently he was just, you know, none of the, didn't want to go. Because he's like, you're a sitcom guy, kind of.

Maybe that, but also just the character.

Oh, yeah, just a staying character. Yeah, resentment, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. The alpha, alpha.
Yeah. Do you know, I've only, I've only worked with Sean on Two and a Half Men.
I've only

Sean

in a comedic setting. He was brilliant.
It was our first episode, second season, and he's in a men's group. And it was Elvis Costello and Harry Dean Stanton and me and Bobby Cooper.
It was awesome.

But isn't that a trip that the first time he and I actually

thought he was one-year-old movies? No, just the stuff you see in the dock. where he

shoots me in my own backyard and then stuffs me in the refrigerator for Emilio to discover later on it was nuts you know yeah he's growing he can be very funny though i think he went on friends was very funny

when you know snl and he did the read through i go wow this guy's talented yeah he's all right on right on you know just uh charlie we'll do it again and we'll do it we got more to talk to you about because you have just too much person

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Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese-Dennis of Odyssey.

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech. Booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Lauren Vieira.

Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show. You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com.
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