Ke Huy Quan

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Speaker 2 Quince.com slash fly. Our guest today is Ki Wee Kwan.
Ki has an amazing story. So you really want to listen to this podcast.
And I never say that. I'm not a salesman, but he has an amazing story.

Speaker 2 He just was in school. His family came from Vietnam and he was just in school in LA.
And they said, hey, there's a movie. He auditions and boom.
Indiana Jones, the Temple of Doom.

Speaker 2 And then later on, he gets into Goonies. He has this nice little run.

Speaker 5 And then the story gets more dramatic there.

Speaker 2 David?

Speaker 1 It's very complicated. It's very, it's, it's, it's more of a story of a hard luck story, the way that happens in Hollywood.

Speaker 1 But this one has a happy ending, and it doesn't always happen that way, but it's a guy that's really persevered and tried and hung in there and had good people around him and really zero ego.

Speaker 1 lots of talent and just a good dude to talk to. And he has very inspiring to hear him talk about literally anything.

Speaker 2 Yes. And this episode will get into

Speaker 2 romance and the support of a spouse.

Speaker 4 It's pretty moving.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 just about as nice a person that's ever been on our shows.

Speaker 1 He's got a new movie called Love Hurts.

Speaker 2 Love Hurts is out in theaters, actually.

Speaker 1 He was in Everything, Everywhere, All At Once, which was Academy Award bait.

Speaker 1 And I think he won.

Speaker 2 We'll let you find out. I think

Speaker 2 listen to this as you drive, Garrett,

Speaker 2 go to the gym or if you're doing the dishes. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Anyway, here he is. What a great dude.
And hope you have a nice listen.

Speaker 1 We sure had a nice time talking to him.

Speaker 3 First of all,

Speaker 3 I got to geek out a little bit. I cannot believe I'm talking to both of you.

Speaker 3 I've been a massive, massive fan of both of your work.

Speaker 3 In fact, talking to you right now, it's very intimidating.

Speaker 3 And because you guys are so funny. You guys are so funny.

Speaker 3 I wish my Goonie's brother, Jeff Cohen, aka Chunk, is here with me because he's very funny.

Speaker 1 You know, it's funny. First of all, thank you very much for that.
And you don't have to be funny. You don't have to be anything here.

Speaker 3 You don't have to be anything. Mistakes are good.

Speaker 5 Over talking is one of our skill sets notice i'm doing it right now yeah if you get on a roll we will stop you so don't yeah we don't even

Speaker 1 there's no pressure for you to do it you know dana i didn't see goonies when it came out this is so crazy and i the other night it was on and i'm like oh this is goonies that literally every person in the world has seen and so i started watching it and they're in some underwater cave there's some cave and they're trying to dig out of the mud is that goonies that's it right there's a cave

Speaker 1 and how old were you when you when you saw it if you didn't see it as a kid i i'm old now i'm 104 but when i saw it it was one week ago i was old i was old in the 80s so i saw it old i was old then but i saw it it was great and and did you like it because it's one of those movies where like you watch it as a kid and you grow up with it and then you ended up like that being your favorite movie but i wonder like what's it like to watch it as an adult it's fun because it's nostalgic the way i used to like movies so it just threw me back to being that age going this is exactly what i would like this is like a fun and all the kids are acting goofy and people are after them and it just yeah how do i how i missed it i don't know but i just thought oh i this is why everyone likes it you can tell in five minutes of watching it that it's got a good vibe i think it's had resonance you know with stranger things and there's it it's a it's an important movie it's part of that that zeigeisty and i think it was mimicked a lot you know but it was it's just just fun.

Speaker 5 Kids on adventure, caves, bad guys. I mean, it's just fun.

Speaker 3 Fun movie. Yeah, it's the, you know, it's the greatest story of all time for a kid.

Speaker 3 I mean, to find a treasure map and go and go on this like incredible adventures with your friends where you go down water slides and you step on booby traps and and you know and you come upon this like you know full-size Irish ship.

Speaker 3 It was just it was an incredible experience for me and for all the goonies.

Speaker 1 And and you're with your buddy i mean it just shows kids together and that's your dream like do something fun and you're with your friends and steven spielberg's the boss

Speaker 3 yeah he's he's the head goonie uh and and of course you know dick donner did an incredible job allowing us to be kids uh you know if you watch that movie we were constantly just talking over one another and that i mean back then you don't do that sure uh

Speaker 3 you're trained to like wait until you you you know the other actor finished talking before you say your line uh but from day one we were all hams

Speaker 3 we could not wait to to to to say our lines and um and it of course it drove the you know the the sound guy crazy but dick donner was laughing the entire time uh behind the monitors because you know that's what kits are that's what they do Yeah, he had a moving master shot then a lot of the time with you guys, I assume.

Speaker 5 If you're all over overlapping, like,

Speaker 3 yeah, oh, yeah, we did master shots, we did coverage, uh, we did, you know, the whole thing. And Dick loves to shoot with multiple cameras.

Speaker 3 For example, when we did the

Speaker 3 pirate ship, the very first time we saw the pirate ship was captured on camera.

Speaker 3 You, you know, you might have heard this story before, but when they were building the ship on stage 16 on the Warner Brothers lot,

Speaker 3 Spielberg and Donner placed a security camera right by the door and they closed that giant gate so nobody could see what was happening inside.

Speaker 3 Built the ship. And when it was ready to film it, they, you know, they blindfolded us and we were walking backwards being escorted by the crew.

Speaker 3 And Dick had seven cameras pointing at us.

Speaker 3 And we got underwater, we hear action, we pop up and turn around, and what you see in the movie is the very first time that we saw the pirate ship. And it was incredible.
It was an amazing sight.

Speaker 5 So smart. God, I think better of Richard Donner than I always did.

Speaker 5 You know, to not only ban Superman,

Speaker 5 the last great Superman, although there's one coming out, brilliant, brilliant movie with Brando and Christopher Rees and everything. So then he altered his shooting style to accommodate kids.

Speaker 5 And so that's probably a big reason why it just pops. It's not stilted.
It flows.

Speaker 5 I'm fascinated. I never did.

Speaker 1 I like the weapon, too. He's on.
And the omen?

Speaker 3 Yeah, the omen, I'll either weapon Scrooge with Bill Murray.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's just, he's such a versatile filmmaker.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I auditioned for him once. I don't know if you ever had any auditions where you didn't get the part,

Speaker 5 but I auditioned for Richard Dawn or for some movie in the early 80s. and I had no experience.
We were supposed to pretend we were crawling in a cave or something.

Speaker 3 Maybe it was, and I was maybe it was goonies.

Speaker 5 You do the audition, and they're like, Well, um, okay, that's good. You want me to do anything else? No, we're good, thank you.

Speaker 1 What about the other five scenes? Nope, we're just gonna do one today.

Speaker 2 That's it, we got a good show for you.

Speaker 5 You had Richard, you had Spielberg, and then you had Richard Donner. That's a pretty good start.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I saw I'll tell you the story about dick donner uh your love uh i did goonies with him and this was many years later maybe in 1990 uh most of the time i was just an unemployed actor uh and there was this role that came in it was it was a uh

Speaker 3 uh a role for an episode of tales from the crypt oh yeah

Speaker 3 it was a show that he produced HBO but he didn't do it was HBO

Speaker 3 and this was like maybe like

Speaker 3 a year and a half I haven't worked and I, my agent called me and says, hey, you know, there's this role, Taylor's from the club. You know, it's, you know, you're one of the guys.

Speaker 3 It's very goonies-esque, but, you know, in the horror genre. And I said, yeah, I'd love to go on an audition.
So I auditioned for the producer.

Speaker 3 He wasn't there. He didn't know about it.
I auditioned for the producer

Speaker 3 and the director at that time.

Speaker 3 And when he found out that I went in an audition,

Speaker 3 he told him, he says, give him the part.

Speaker 3 Give him the part. It doesn't matter whether he's right or not.

Speaker 1 What a sweetheart.

Speaker 3 Very sweet. And then, sure enough, a week later,

Speaker 3 my agent told me I got the role and it had everything to do with Donner.

Speaker 3 That's how nice he is. Wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it's good to have a good experience, too.

Speaker 5 You know, like you get, you get the Spielberg film. Did you have any experience, or is it completely let's try out for a movie? Or had you done something before

Speaker 5 in Dan Jones?

Speaker 3 No, no, nothing. I was, you know, this was 1983.
I just immigrated to the United States. Four years.
I can barely speak English.

Speaker 3 I was busy being a kid, you know, trying to acclimate, you know, into my new life. I was living in Chinatown Los Angeles at that time.
It was just a very small Chinese community.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I was busy going to school and living out my new life. And that one day,

Speaker 3 the casting director

Speaker 3 and his associate came to my elementary school.

Speaker 3 And they were just

Speaker 3 interviewing all the kids that

Speaker 3 the casting director thought might be right for the role of short round.

Speaker 3 I knew nothing about it. I didn't even want, I mean, being an actor was the last thing I ever wanted.

Speaker 3 I was busy doing homework and learning English.

Speaker 3 And I don't know what I did then. My brother went to audition.
I tagged along and literally the very next day, I got a call from Spielberg's office.

Speaker 3 And she said, we would like you to come in and meet with Stephen and George. I didn't know who they were.
I didn't have a car back then.

Speaker 3 The entire family,

Speaker 3 we didn't have a car. We live in chinatown and we can get by just walking to everywhere

Speaker 3 uh

Speaker 3 and when they heard that i couldn't you know go to their office they said don't worry we're gonna send you a driver a driver

Speaker 3 you're 13 and the day before you were just in class yeah yeah yeah you're nervous like am i short enough my round enough Yeah, and that's how it all started.

Speaker 3 It was crazy, but it was the best thing that has ever happened.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. That was such a huge movie, too.

Speaker 5 Can I just ask you a question? So, when you're in the classroom and they go, okay, read for a movie, are you holding a script or are they just feeding you stuff and seeing your personality?

Speaker 5 I'm just curious. Did you, how did that first reading go?

Speaker 3 Just well, they had a setup in the gym. Okay, with camera.
And so all the kids were just like, you know, sitting and waiting for their name to be called.

Speaker 3 And when I went into this little room where they had like a camera set up and a person to read with us,

Speaker 3 There were sites. They gave us sights and I can barely understand any of it.
I didn't know what Indy means. I didn't even know Indy is a name or a person.

Speaker 3 This was a sequel to one of the biggest movies.

Speaker 1 I thought it was a state, Indiana.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, of course, I mean, I fumbled. I was bad at it.

Speaker 3 I didn't know what I was saying. But luckily, the casting director saw something

Speaker 3 and asked me to put the sides away and say, Key, I just want to talk to you for a few minutes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's more like it to see what you're like.

Speaker 3 Yeah, to see, to see what I was like, ask me how old I was, how, you know, you know, how I got to the States and, you know, what's my family like? What's my favorite subject?

Speaker 3 And so I answered everything.

Speaker 3 Little did I know.

Speaker 3 Years later, the casting director told me that the minute I walked out the door, he called Steven Spielberg and says, we don't have to look anymore. We found your kid.
Uh,

Speaker 3 that was pretty amazing.

Speaker 5 Wow, can I say, I'm just curious. So, I don't know what economic strata your family was at at this point.
What did they pay you for this movie? And did it change the dynamic?

Speaker 5 Or did it, what was that like?

Speaker 5 What did you just get union scale?

Speaker 1 Any scale is huge for someone who doesn't have money, right?

Speaker 3 Dana, that's a great question. We were broke.
We were

Speaker 3 my my parents literally gave everything they had to get all of us, the entire family. My family is a total of 11 people.

Speaker 3 My parents had nine kids. So they gave up everything they had to get all of us here in the United States.
So by the time we got here, they lost everything and they were heavily in debt.

Speaker 3 And here comes this movie. I didn't have an agent.
I was not a member of Screen Actors Guild.

Speaker 3 I didn't have a lawyer to look after me. So, whatever they gave me, whatever contract agreement they gave me to sign, we just signed it.
Of course, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 And it was not until later, one, I was paid a very generous salary.

Speaker 3 But what was even more incredible was that they made me a profit participant. What? No.

Speaker 3 Now, without asking, without asking, without lawyers protecting me, without

Speaker 3 agents asking, it's never, you do, you know,

Speaker 3 you know, you never get profit participant unless you really fight for it.

Speaker 3 And this is why I'm so grateful to them because knowing that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is going to be the biggest movie in 1984, and yet they're still so generous and still so willing to make me a profit.

Speaker 3 participant. And when the movie came out, sure enough, that very first check that came in was big enough where

Speaker 3 I didn't have to, you know, our parents didn't have to rent a tiny homes for all of us.

Speaker 3 I was able to afford to buy a bigger house

Speaker 3 for all of us to live in. And sure enough, not only did it change my life, but it changed all of my family's life.
Unreal.

Speaker 5 So, I mean, this is sort of inside baseball, but you know, you get pro, sometimes you'll get net points on a movie, they call it, but the movie says we've never made a profit.

Speaker 5 But it, no matter how big, it's Spielberg, it's Indiana Jones at its peak. So I assume that, yeah, you got actual checks and they kept coming.

Speaker 3 I got checks.

Speaker 3 I get, you know, statements sent to me every quarter.

Speaker 3 And what is it? 40 years later. 40 years later,

Speaker 3 I'm still getting a nice mailbox money checks

Speaker 3 every year. I mean, it really, it's just,

Speaker 3 it's so incredible to

Speaker 3 think back then. I was just a 12-year-old kid.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, you would have done it for a new baseball man.

Speaker 3 Like, I would do it.

Speaker 1 Like, my first jobs when I was 20, I would do it for, you don't even ask. You don't want to get fired.
You're like, what are you paying me? I don't even ask.

Speaker 1 Just please, you know, the thing I thought you were heading towards was not only do you get, let's say you get scale, let's say you do something and it's, you know, back then 1500 1500 a week 800 fine

Speaker 1 but the trick is you get residuals so if you don't know that and used to i i remember did an old police academy movie oh a couple people remember thank you and uh i remember damon i love that

Speaker 1 i love that movie i love i i love police academy movies so that was my first one i played a skateboarder and then i did it and i got uh obviously enough money for me i loved it whatever it was.

Speaker 1 And then, six months later, I was driving from LA to Arizona and I went to a little skinny mailbox with the key. And you open it up at your apartments and

Speaker 1 check for like 2,800 bucks out of nowhere. And it was because it got sold HBO or it was a residual.
I was like, wait, you get money after? I could not believe it.

Speaker 1 And then I kept getting little dibs and dabs. And then you do a sitcom and then you get a check.
And I'm like, that's where actors kind of stay alive.

Speaker 1 So you got that and profit participation so what a what a that's the real treasure movie yeah i i i gotta say you know uh i mean after goonies um

Speaker 3 people i i've been very open about this during those times when i couldn't get a job uh when i couldn't get work as an actor

Speaker 3 and i was just struggling i was either in school or those checks were huge they were you know they were really i think when when they when their check came in i mean, it was such a big help economically.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure, you don't sound like you live like a crazy life.

Speaker 1 Like if you're living like most people, just trying to live a normal life and just get by, those checks really help cover almost everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You don't need a lot because you're not spending a lot. So it's great to get that keep you afloat.
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Speaker 5 Back in the day, just for a sec, because I came from not as big a family. There are five of us and stuff.
And I just wondered if the dynamic of what happened to you,

Speaker 5 were you starting to get recognized? Or did your mom and dad say,

Speaker 5 okay,

Speaker 5 you can get a new bicycle? Was there anything or it just went to them and everything went on as usual? Or was there any change in the dynamic with your siblings that you're a star?

Speaker 3 My parents are very strict.

Speaker 3 They're very traditional Chinese value parents.

Speaker 3 And everybody treated me like,

Speaker 3 you know, I was not a star, not an actor.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I think because of that, because of my upbringing, I was very grounded.

Speaker 3 And I never allowed. my fame to get to my head.
But of course, that time, I mean, those were big movies. So wherever I go, I go out, people will recognize me.

Speaker 3 People will come up for pictures, for autographs.

Speaker 3 And my siblings would just, you know, smile and

Speaker 3 be proud. They're very proud of me.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 That's so healthy.

Speaker 1 That's so nice.

Speaker 3 It was so great to hear

Speaker 3 people.

Speaker 3 And the thing is, you know, there's no jealousy because they don't want to be actors. You know, they're very, you know, they, all of them want to be in business.
They're very business savvy,

Speaker 3 kind of like taking after my parents. My dad was a successful businessman.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's why you moved out here. No one came to act, right? You didn't come out.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And yeah, nobody, none of us wanted to be actors.

Speaker 1 Just a happy accident.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So that's why I feel like I'm adopted in some way.
I'm so different from my siblings.

Speaker 1 Where is the premiere? I'm guessing it was at the Chinese theater because it's such a big place for a premiere.

Speaker 3 You know what's incredible?

Speaker 5 Or West or the Dome. Okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 40 years ago,

Speaker 3 we premiered Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom at the Man Chinese Theater.

Speaker 1 Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 And it was also on the same day that I witnessed Steven Spielberg and George Lucas got their very own hand and footprint ceremony.

Speaker 3 And I was a kid, I was just blown away. I go, wow, what is this? Like, they must be really special to have their

Speaker 3 celebrity mark

Speaker 3 in this theater.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's nice.

Speaker 3 Come February 3rd.

Speaker 3 I'm going to have, I'm going to be honored with my very own hand and footprint ceremony. What?

Speaker 3 Manned Chinese theater, and we're going to be premiering Love Hurts

Speaker 3 at the same place.

Speaker 3 It's such a

Speaker 3 full circle moment. It's so surreal.
I cannot believe it.

Speaker 5 That is, for people who don't know about Hollywood and having your handprints and footprints, it's better than a star, I think. It's, it's, for my age, I mean, it's Carrie Grant, it's John Wayne.

Speaker 5 I mean, it's the greatest stars in the world. So, and now here you are.

Speaker 5 You know, we're kind of going along with your resume here, but yeah, you do have a new movie coming out that you star in.

Speaker 5 And I watched the trailer. It's out February 7th.
Love Hurts. And

Speaker 5 it looks just great. It's the kind of movie I love.

Speaker 5 And in the trailer, I noticed, because I know that.

Speaker 5 If you had a stunt double, maybe you did or not, but you're really moving well. And I love the notion of a movie of a reluctant hero.

Speaker 5 You know, it's not like you're Steven Seagal or something. Please don't make me do my thing.
And then here it is without giving it away. That conceit is so much fun.
But

Speaker 5 just for a second, did you study Taekwondo? Did you do all your own stunts, or what was that like being that physical again now that you're not 13 anymore?

Speaker 3 I did study Taekwondo.

Speaker 3 In fact, it was right after Temple of Doom. I was trained in Temple of Doom for a week to do that fights.

Speaker 3 He did a fight at the end of the movie. And I fell in love with it.
And I came back to the States. And my brother and I enrolled ourselves in Taekwondo classes.
And I studied for many years.

Speaker 3 I got a black belt. And during that entire time, I really love watching those Hong Kong.
80s action movies with Jackie Chansey.

Speaker 5 That's what it reminded me of.

Speaker 3 The movies.

Speaker 3 And those movies, you can clearly see that it's the actors doing all the fights up on the screen.

Speaker 3 There's just something real and there's something at stake that when you know that it's them and it's not just some stunt double.

Speaker 5 So much easier to shoot, too.

Speaker 3 And so with this movie, Love Hurts, I want to distinguish between stunts and fights. Stunts.

Speaker 3 I don't do stunts. That is a very specific skill that these stunt guys trained heavily for.
And to me, stunts is falling off buildings, getting hit by a car or being set on fire.

Speaker 3 Those are very dangerous stuff. And they

Speaker 3 put their lives on the line to make us look good. What I can do well are fights, and fights involve like punches and kicks, falling off to the ground, selling a hit.

Speaker 3 It's not easy to sell a hit.

Speaker 3 It's much harder than it looks.

Speaker 3 And I probably get hit a lot.

Speaker 1 You probably get hit a lot because it's so hard to get it perfectly right because you want it so close that it looks real, but I'm sure sometimes there's mistakes.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's scary to sell a hit. And also, you have to snap your head back.

Speaker 1 That's hard for your neck

Speaker 3 over and over again. Over and over again.
And then your body has to

Speaker 3 be in it.

Speaker 3 I remember the first fight we did with Mashawn Lynch. And, you know, he's a big guy.

Speaker 1 Marshawn Lynch.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. And the scene starts with him and Andre, the other actor.
They're both killers. They come in and they take me and they just beat the shit out of me.

Speaker 3 In the beginning, like for the first like half, half a day, all I did was just reacting to punches, you know, left and right, up and down. Shit.
I woke up the next day. I can barely move my neck.

Speaker 3 Of course.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I have to ask production to get me a physical therapist. But it's a lot of work.
It's really demanding. But once when you said put together,

Speaker 3 it's also extremely satisfying.

Speaker 1 Did I read that you, in some of the slower times between jobs, you were teaching fights, or is that crazy?

Speaker 3 I was choreographing.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I worked on a movie with Hugh Jackman called The X-Men.

Speaker 3 I love it. And, you know, a Hong Kong director named Kore Yuan kind of took me under his wings when I graduated from film school.

Speaker 3 And, you know, all those skills that I acquired from martial arts,

Speaker 3 when I was young, I was like, I was so excited because I thought I would be able to use those in movies. I thought, you know, Hollywood would hire me to be the next action hero.

Speaker 3 But, you know, that didn't happen. And I had to put my skills away for many years, never thinking that I would have to call upon them again.

Speaker 3 So this is, it's been such a surreal

Speaker 3 feeling for me to be able to do Love Hurts and especially to be the number one on the call sheet for this movie.

Speaker 5 It's fascinating your story.

Speaker 5 I don't know if anyone quite has your story. And, you know, getting the Oscar in 2022

Speaker 5 and now becoming an action hero, it just the arc of this is so fascinating.

Speaker 5 And just for a second, mentally for you, I know you kept busy and got your residual checks, but those 19 years wondering when it would happen again for you, how did you manage that?

Speaker 5 And was it difficult at times? Did you ever feel discouraged? Or did you sort of anticipate somewhere in your subconscious, like, it's coming for me? Because now you're headlining an action film.

Speaker 5 It looks incredible. And you've got the best supporting actor, Oscar.
It's just such a story. How do you process this?

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 I wish I can say it was easy. I went through a range of emotions.
I was frustrated. I was confused.
I was sad. I was despondent.
I was miserable.

Speaker 3 And of course, as the years went by,

Speaker 3 any hope of like this happening just grows dimmer and dimmer.

Speaker 3 But I mean, honestly, I don't think I would be here without my wife.

Speaker 3 She is my lucky charm. She is my everything.

Speaker 3 She's the one

Speaker 3 for some reason, believe in me, and saw all of this.

Speaker 3 She saw all of this happening. And this, and we're talking about 20, starting 20 years ago, we've been together 20,

Speaker 3 22 years now.

Speaker 3 So for 22 years,

Speaker 3 she kept saying, you know, you're going to be successful again one day.

Speaker 3 And in the beginning, it was really, you know, it was really inspiring. It was really uplifting.
I'm with this girl that I love and she believes that I'm going to be somebody one day.

Speaker 3 And she has such a great eye. Over the years, every time

Speaker 3 she tells me that this person is going to be successful, it happens.

Speaker 3 But at the same time, it was frustrating for me is because she truly believed, she believed in me more than anybody.

Speaker 3 And yet, it wasn't happening for me. It was happening for other people.

Speaker 3 That she pointed out.

Speaker 1 Gives me anxiety just thinking about it.

Speaker 3 Like it's such a long.

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 3 it was it it was hard it was hard and i and i felt like man if one day i don't you know if this doesn't happen i'm gonna disappoint her she's not gonna love me anymore she's gonna leave me she's gonna say oh my gosh i i placed a bet on the wrong guy i mean of course she's not that kind of person but that's what was going through my head sure for a long time and I was just scared.

Speaker 3 I was really scared.

Speaker 5 God, that's so fascinating. Here's the one word that it seems like just talking to you.
Now,

Speaker 5 not something that's in your personality, but it's very common in show business. And that, and I met a lot of people with bitterness.

Speaker 5 I got screwed. The business let me down.
It's not my fault. You know, and you didn't use that word a minute ago.
You used despondent, discouraged, embarrassed, but not bitter.

Speaker 5 And I think because if you get bitter, you really lessen your chances of getting lucky because no one likes an ungrateful, bitter person. You have to really guard for that.

Speaker 5 So did you ever feel those emotions,

Speaker 5 or you just stay kind of humble in a way?

Speaker 3 You know, it's

Speaker 3 how I was taught and how I grew up. I never once, believe it or not, never once did I feel bitter.
And never once did I blame anybody but myself.

Speaker 3 I didn't blame the system. I didn't blame, oh, you know, there was just not enough roads for Asians to go around.
I didn't think any of that. I just felt that, oh, maybe I was too short.

Speaker 3 Maybe I wasn't, you know, wasn't a good enough actor. That's why I didn't those role.
You know, the role went to a better actor than me.

Speaker 3 I never, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 I always talk about the difference between envy and jealousy. And tell me if you guys agree with this.

Speaker 3 Like when I see somebody doing really well up on this on screen or have tremendous talent, I always go, oh, oh, wow, I wish I have that.

Speaker 3 So I envy them for having that talent or that success, but I'm never jealous of them. And I think jealousy brings you down versus envy encourages you to keep going and to not give up hope.

Speaker 3 I never, yeah,

Speaker 3 I never felt bitter.

Speaker 5 I always have been from day one, and it's still my touchstone. My dream was to make as much doing stand-up in these little clubs as I made as a waiter.

Speaker 5 So my goal was really back then when I got to making an average of maybe $600 a month, okay, I could put, took off the waiter's apron and I felt gratitude ever since.

Speaker 5 I always go back to that because it's not promise for anyone. It's a, I call it, it can be an emotionally violent career as opposed to being a grade school teacher or whatever that's more consistent.

Speaker 5 But I think that's why when Everything Everywhere all at at once came up you were just ready because you did not and that's that's just a great lesson for anyone listening to this who's an aspiring actor never never go to that jealousy or bitterness it'll just eat you alive and make you take your talent away really so it's hard though yeah it's hard not to

Speaker 3 sometimes human it's hard to place you don't know where to place the blame or what's going on and you're like i'm a good person yeah everyone i think has gone through that yeah it's not easy that's why like during those times you really need somebody who believes in you uh i was very lucky i had my wife uh

Speaker 3 god knows if she was if i wasn't with her where would i be today i i you know uh i don't even know if i if i would uh have the courage to continue uh so uh that's why it's important to have you know friends who believe in you family I have a great family.

Speaker 3 They've been so supportive.

Speaker 3 And also,

Speaker 3 over the years, too,

Speaker 3 they tried to get me to give up and go to Houston and do business with them.

Speaker 3 Oh, get a real job.

Speaker 1 It's time to get out of here.

Speaker 3 Can I ask you just a little bit of real job? Because that's the most

Speaker 5 your relationship with your wife is one of the most also romantic things I've heard. And that is a movie in itself.

Speaker 5 Just first out, was it Love at First Side, or how did you meet? Or what was the early courtship? And when did you know this is the one for me? Was it pretty much thunderstruck?

Speaker 5 Or just talk to that a little bit, if you would.

Speaker 3 It's fascinating. So we used to work

Speaker 3 for a Hong Kong filmmaker named Wong Kai Wai.

Speaker 3 And she was in Shanghai at that time. And Wong Kau Wei flew me there to work on a few projects.

Speaker 3 And we met. And from day one,

Speaker 3 we just, we have endless conversation.

Speaker 3 We never stop talking.

Speaker 3 We enjoy each other's company.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 yeah, we spent every day, every minute, every hour together during my time in Shanghai. And then when I had to come back to the States and we were separated, all I could think of was her.

Speaker 3 And she would, we didn't have much money at that time. And it was at a time, this is 2002.
So she couldn't get a visa to come to the States to visit me. I can only fly back to see her.
And

Speaker 3 We would talk on the phone all the time.

Speaker 3 We would, you know, we would try to be in touch and I would fly back whenever it was possible.

Speaker 3 But it was during those times away that I go, God, I don't think I can live without her.

Speaker 3 And two years into our dating, into our relationship, I close.

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Speaker 5 It's just such a great story. I guess as we go forward here, I want to unpack this movie because I think that's what's currently right in front of you.

Speaker 5 And just how did that come about? Did they,

Speaker 5 what was the phone call like? And what did it mean at that moment? Did your wife pick up the phone?

Speaker 5 I'll get him, just a moment.

Speaker 3 It was right during the award season, right before the Oscars.

Speaker 3 I think the Oscar nomination came out. And then my agent called me and says, There's a script that came in for you.
They would like to offer you the lead.

Speaker 1 Can you read it? Offer the lead.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 3 After 19 years.

Speaker 3 After 19 years,

Speaker 3 it was the first time I've heard it. It was the first time I heard it.
Those words.

Speaker 3 Those words. Offer you the lead.
It's from 87 North from David Leach and Kelly McCormick. Now, David Leach is a big director,

Speaker 3 big producer. So is Kelly.

Speaker 3 So I read it right away.

Speaker 3 And as I was reading it, I loved it, but then I was like kind of confused because I just don't see myself in this role.

Speaker 3 I see,

Speaker 3 you know, actors like, you know, Schwarzenegger, Stallone,

Speaker 3 pretty much, pretty much all your typical actors

Speaker 3 except me. I just didn't see it.

Speaker 3 And so I call my agent the next day. I said, it's a great script, but I think they got the wrong person.

Speaker 3 So let's just pass very quickly without thinking much about it.

Speaker 3 And then I was busy doing, you know, interviews and attending award season. And then it was after I won the Oscar, they came back the second time and they said, can you please reconsider?

Speaker 3 And at that time, I was mentally exhausted.

Speaker 3 I was just like, I had just gone through this six month. of award season.
I was mentally exhausted, but I did remember the script and I said, it's a a great script, but then it's still a pass for me.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 3 What? After the second time.

Speaker 3 Come on.

Speaker 3 And it was at a time where it was at a time where, like,

Speaker 3 what was incredible was like people were calling and I was getting odds.

Speaker 3 And then all of a sudden, I got really scared. One, because I've never been in a situation where people offer me roles without any audition.
And second,

Speaker 3 there has been so much love and support that I was so afraid that whatever I was going to do next, I was going to disappoint them. And that was the last thing I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 And I was at an event with Steven Spielberg and we were chatting and he says, Key, how are you doing? And I said, I'm not doing so good, Stephen. He says, why? And I said, well, I'm having trouble.

Speaker 3 deciding what to do next because you know of the success of everything everywhere all at once i'm really nervous and he says okay don't worry about it let's grab lunch when we get back to LA.

Speaker 3 And we did.

Speaker 3 And it was during lunch that I pitched him the story and I said, this is Universal Studios picture. It's theatrical release.
And I told him the story and I told him my reservation. And he stopped me.

Speaker 3 He says, Key,

Speaker 3 let me tell you, it's great.

Speaker 3 You should do it.

Speaker 3 And I go, huh? He says,

Speaker 3 don't think much.

Speaker 3 Just do it.

Speaker 3 It's going to turn out great. And you're going to love it.
And it's it's going to put you in the leading man category.

Speaker 3 And again, he also gave me a lot of advice too. Like

Speaker 3 if you believe in it yourself, if you do it with all your heart and passion, the audience will appreciate you for it, whether they like the movie or not.

Speaker 3 Left that lunch and asked my agent to set up a meeting. And I went in, I met with the entire producing team and also our director, Jojo Eusebio, who is a veteran with with action.

Speaker 3 And it was at that time I realized, wow, all these years I've been conditioned that guys that look like me,

Speaker 3 you know, cannot be an action hero.

Speaker 3 And they were also trying to do something different. They were trying to change the status quo and to create a new kind of action hero.
And immediately I fell in love with it.

Speaker 3 And I said, yes, right away, got myself trained. And it was, I got to say, it was one one of the best decisions I've made in my life

Speaker 5 well when you see the playbacks I don't know online or when you first started to see it work you know because in the trailer you can really see that

Speaker 5 you totally believe your character just has this skill set you know and I think the one that seems a little bit familiar in the abstract is Bob Odekirk doing nobody

Speaker 5 He was very, very surprised that he was tapped to be an action star, you know. But it makes sense to me.

Speaker 5 I think it is kind of cool that you're not really built up and stuff, but you just have speed and coordination or

Speaker 5 smarts

Speaker 5 with how to win a street fight in a kitchen or whatever with anything at your disposal, you know.

Speaker 3 And I love watching movies where, you know, there's that element of surprise, you know. Like if you go watch a movie and The Rock beats up 10 guys, it's, yeah, of course, I mean, that

Speaker 3 means huge, you know.

Speaker 3 But there's something something special about watching someone like me or, you know, or you, I'd like, you know, I've seen both of you work, you know, where you, you kick ass and go, wow, that's, that's, it's so nice to see that, something different.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And, and, you know, it's that element of surprise that also that you can literally do it.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's very lucky that you get a guy that

Speaker 1 you can play it and you can act. And they're like, the benefit is also.

Speaker 1 You don't need to be covered in stunts on every single fight. They're like, this guy can do a lot of it.
And that's such a a benefit. Helps the movie, helps everybody.

Speaker 3 And did they know?

Speaker 5 Did they know you had a black belt in Taekwondo? They must have looked that up, right?

Speaker 3 Yes, they did. Yes, they did.

Speaker 3 They knew exactly what I was capable of.

Speaker 3 And even going in, I did tell them and I said, if I'm going to do this, can you let me do all the fights myself?

Speaker 3 And they said, yes. But of course, that was a big statement for me because I was.
I was great when I was 21 years old. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And nobody wants to put me in action, baby. And now, you know, I'm 54.

Speaker 3 Uh, so I did, you know, I trained with the guys. I had we had the best action team.
We trained for three months getting myself ready.

Speaker 3 And, you know, and it's everything that I know about making action movie, uh, I put into this. It's not easy, and it's

Speaker 3 you get hurt. Uh, you know, Jackie Chan, when he does those action movies, he gets hurt all the time.
Uh,

Speaker 3 uh, and in order for a fight to look real,

Speaker 3 uh, you can't fake it. You have to, the way I know it is, you know, you really have to go at it.
And I went at it with Daniel Wu in the finale. I went at it with Michael Lynch.

Speaker 3 And it was really tough. And every single day, I would go back to my apartment and I would soak myself in salt bath, you know, in a salt bath

Speaker 3 for an hour. I was bruised everywhere.

Speaker 3 And halfway through the movie, I told my wife, I said, you know, I don't think I can do another one. This is it.

Speaker 3 And then we saw the movie, and I go, I call my agent, I said, Come on, let's get another one. I can't wait to do it again.

Speaker 1 Well, it's like surgery once it's over.

Speaker 5 Did you ever get so excited in a fight scene that you kind of did some damage and then found yourself saying, Take that bitch, like yelling at the actor? Did you ever lose it to Marshall?

Speaker 3 No, no,

Speaker 3 I never get joy from hurting people.

Speaker 5 Okay, I'm kidding.

Speaker 3 Dana does.

Speaker 3 I always make sure, and sometimes accidents do happen.

Speaker 3 And every time I hit somebody accidentally,

Speaker 3 my heart just drops.

Speaker 3 But we have a lot of tough guys. Our stunt guys are really tough.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 I can

Speaker 3 kick him all I want. I don't think I would do much damage.
They're built for it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm going to give you a compliment, Kay, real quick.

Speaker 3 Here we go.

Speaker 5 He never gives compliments.

Speaker 3 Oh, wow. The day, I'm so excited.
Okay, I can't wait to hear it.

Speaker 1 I'm watching your trailer this morning for Love Hurts, which comes out in theaters, right?

Speaker 5 February 7th.

Speaker 1 Theaters.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I stop it about a third of the way through, and I like it. I go, I don't want to know anymore because I want to go see it.
I want to just go watch it happen. I don't want to guess ahead.

Speaker 1 Right when I'm hooked in, I go, okay, it's right when you're doing their cookies and then Marshawn comes in. And I go, okay, I like it.
Stop. Because I don't want to know one extra interesting thing.

Speaker 1 I just want to go see it all.

Speaker 3 Oh, wow. David.
Thank you. I'm so touched.
Thank you so much for that.

Speaker 1 But that's a good trailer. That shows you.

Speaker 5 It's like, that's a fun movie. I watched the whole trailer.
I watched the whole trailer.

Speaker 5 It's not a competition, David. I watched the whole thing and I clicked it and I said, that movie is going to do great.
That was my blink on it.

Speaker 5 And I'm just saying it, and we don't say it to everyone on here promoting the movie, but that is just going to be one of those movies you want to see.

Speaker 3 You know, that's not your typical. In the theater.

Speaker 3 David, Dana, you just made my month.

Speaker 3 Getting that compliment from both of you means the world to me. And knowing that you guys are going to go watch it in theater is even more incredible.
Thank you.

Speaker 5 Well, after it hits 100 million, just pop. We have another podcast called Superfly.
You could pop in for five minutes.

Speaker 3 Yes. I'll tell you.

Speaker 5 With your wife, we'll say, has he gotten cocky finally?

Speaker 3 I'm going to beat Dana.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say I only saw four seconds of the trailer. I'm going backwards now.
I only saw two seconds of the trailer, and I can name that hit in two seconds. No, I just like the vibe of it.

Speaker 1 I like you. I think people are coming off of the last one saying interesting and it's a fun story.
And you're very sweet, charming, humble guy. And just like, hey, it's not the rock.

Speaker 3 And although it's new, most of those movies are the rock.

Speaker 5 I love John Wick, and I love this genre, but this is new and it felt new.

Speaker 3 It just had to be.

Speaker 3 I grew up watching movies in the 80s where, you know, they're like 90 minutes long and you go in and you just enjoy it. And

Speaker 3 it kind of

Speaker 3 takes your, you know, lets you escape reality for a little bit.

Speaker 3 You come out of it feeling a little bit refreshed. So this movie was made for that.
One was made for, you know, the audience who love the action genre.

Speaker 3 And it's kind of an homage to those Hong Kong 80s action movie. And hopefully, yeah, people can just go on a date or with their friends and just have a really good time.

Speaker 5 Yes. And the job of that film is somewhere in the third act to make you suspend this belief that maybe the hero won't make it.

Speaker 5 Maybe he's going to lose this time. And that's the fun of how that's written and how that's made.
You know, that's just the fun of the genre, what you don't see coming and how he wins the day.

Speaker 5 If he wins the day.

Speaker 1 If he wins the day, we don't know. And I like any excuse to go to the movies again because I don't go enough.
And you need one to go, oh, let me get out there again.

Speaker 1 I want to go see a movie out there.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 you don't have to think. You just sit there and enjoy the ride.
Those are just really, really fun movies.

Speaker 5 The one thing I just wanted to mention was your Oscar acceptance speech, just that it's kind of gone up there. the Hall of Fame.
I don't know if you probably answered every question about it.

Speaker 5 And we kind of know you now a little bit and what it meant, of course.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 it really stood out that night in the Oscars. You know, it was like, wow, he's back.

Speaker 3 It was one of the most memorable nights of my life.

Speaker 3 I didn't, you know, it was a night. It was a moment that I dreamt about, I fantased about for 40 years.
Didn't whatever, ever happen. I remember when

Speaker 3 Ariana DeBose and Troy Kutzer walked out with the envelope, and I'm in my seat. Uh, and it feels like you're not breathing, you're just holding your breath.

Speaker 3 Uh, and I felt like I was holding my breath for not for that night, but for the entire six months since the award season started for 40 years, yeah, for 40 years, yeah.

Speaker 3 Um, and and you really don't know, uh, until they opened the envelope. And when she opened the envelope and announced my name with so much emotion, uh, I heard it and I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 3 I wanted to like, it almost, it's one of those where, wait, did she say my name? Like, did she say my name? Like, is this real?

Speaker 3 And once when I realized that it was, you know, this was reality, I fought really hard to fight back the emotions.

Speaker 3 It was all, it felt like all those emotions that I've had building up in the last 20 years, stepping away and just hoping, just

Speaker 3 hoping that someone would give me a chance just came flooding out.

Speaker 5 Wow, I hear the emotion in your voice. You know, I just wondered because it's success and things like this.

Speaker 5 You know, in terms of your relationship with your wife after you won the Oscar, was she sort of

Speaker 5 more wanting to be more frisky with you, more affectionate? Was she draped all over you?

Speaker 3 I'm just kidding.

Speaker 5 She's making love with an Oscar worker.

Speaker 3 It's got to be different.

Speaker 3 He goes,

Speaker 3 just kidding.

Speaker 3 I remember I woke up the next day

Speaker 3 thinking this was all a dream. I woke up next to her

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 we looked at each other for a long beat. It was the morning after.

Speaker 3 And I'm thinking,

Speaker 3 wait, was that all a dream?

Speaker 3 I looked at her

Speaker 3 and I said, honey,

Speaker 3 did yesterday happen?

Speaker 3 And she smiled and she says,

Speaker 3 you are an Oscar-winning actor.

Speaker 5 And was she holding the Oscar in her arms?

Speaker 3 We did it.

Speaker 1 Honey, do we leave the Oscar at In N-Out?

Speaker 1 Well, thank you for coming on, buddy. What a great story top to talk about.

Speaker 3 Yeah, really, really interesting. I enjoyed having you.
Yeah. David, Dana, thank you so much.
I love you guys. I mean, seriously, I love you guys.
And this has been such a wonderful chat. Thank you.

Speaker 5 Thank you, buddy. I look forward to the movie.

Speaker 3 Yes, yes. Please watch it.
And to all your listeners, please do watch it and support our movie in the theaters. It would mean the world to me.

Speaker 5 Love hurts. Love hurts.
Love hurts. Love hurts.
February 7th, February 7th.

Speaker 1 All right. See you, buddy.
Nice to meet you.

Speaker 5 Thank you, Lincoln. Take care.
Enjoy.

Speaker 1 This has been a presentation of Odyssey. Please follow, subscribe, leave a like, a review, all the stuff.
Smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 Fly in the Wall is is executive and produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.