Last Looks: Doppelganger

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At the University of Arizona, we believe that everyone is born with wonder.

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Prices and participation may vary.

What to see in Tree Fort?

Sterling K.

Brown.

A bunch of guys from Shorzy, and a 1977 Dungeons and Dragons manual.

All this and more will be explored in today's Last Looks.

So people, places, it's time for Last Looks.

Yeah, I said it twice.

I don't care.

Disconnect the Discord.

Hello, my freaky darlings, and welcome to Last Looks from HTTGM, which stands for How Did This Get Me?

But you know, it's also kind of, how did this get made?

Strap in my howies and my howettes, my howdy dudes and howdy don'ts.

We got some corrections and omissions.

We got Jason Manzookas on just chat.

And we're going to tell you what next week's movie is.

So let's do this, baby.

Hello, my freaky doppelganger darlings.

What's up?

It's me, Paul Shearer, and welcome to How Did This Get Made?

Last Looks.

That's right.

This is where you, the listener, get to voice your issues on Doppelganger, a movie that Discord user Dove thinks should have had the tagline, Doppelganger, breakfast at facsimiles.

I like that one.

I like that one a lot.

By the way, I said Discord user.

How about, I should say, how did this get made Discord user?

Not just like, not like just Reddit user dove.

Just how did this get made Discord user?

And if you want to join our Discord, just go to discord.gg slash HDTGM and you'll get there.

It's fun.

Thank you, Dove, for that tagline.

Remember, if you have an alt movie tagline, submit it on our Discord.

That's right.

And we might just read it on the show.

Boy, oh boy, we got so much to talk about.

The tour is almost here.

The doppelganger tour is ready to go.

Jess St.

Clair is joining us because, and you might not have seen this announcement, the great June Diane Rayfield has booked a plum role, a role that she is built for, perfect to play, and that is the role of Elle Woods' mom in the Legally Blonde prequel series.

That's right, Elle.

So I am, I am just so over the moon.

I can't think of a better mom for Elle Woods than a version of June in the 80s.

It's going to be like, I can't, the shoulder pads, the Claudia Schiffer kind of fashion, I cannot wait.

It's going to be great.

So we are truly missing June.

We are so excited to have Jess.

Now, here's the thing.

June might be able to join us for the Toronto shows, just like she is able to join us for the LA shows.

So stick around.

We'll have some fun surprises on the road.

Tickets are available at hdtgm.com.

Now your question is, well, Paul, when are you going to announce the movies?

Soon.

We'll give you plenty of time.

You'll get a couple of days' notice.

We're trying.

We're trying to do everything right now.

Avril is working her butt off and they're going to be great choices.

Now, we have so much to talk about today.

We're going to get into your corrections on missions about Doppelganger.

Of course, that's what we do.

But Jason and I are also going to break down our favorite things on Hulu.

I am obsessed with Paradise.

He is obsessed with Shorzy.

We're going to talk about a thousand blows and so much more.

We also, of course, are going to reveal the movie for next week's episode.

But before I do any of that, let me give a big shout out to Action Jackson 5 for their amazing theme song.

We love those songs.

Send them to us whenever you get a chance.

Keep them short.

How did this get made at earwolf.com?

You know the drill.

Here's the thing I want to say: thank you to the iHeart committee.

Thank you to you, the voters.

Thank you because we won the best TV and film podcast award from iHeart this week at South by Southwest, the 2025 Best TV and Film Podcast Award.

It means so much to us.

We've been doing the show for such a long time.

And I know they say awards don't matter, but when you get an award, it's pretty.

fucking cool.

We are thrilled to get that.

We are excited.

I could not be there because of the aforementioned shooting of L.

June is away.

I wanted to be with my kids.

I'm here in LA.

I'm holding it down.

I'm going to bring the kids with me on the road.

I mean, look, not going to stop me.

Not going to stop me from doing anything.

I'm going to get these kids being roadies out there.

That's right.

Mom's away.

Oh, we're going to, I'm going to make these kids work.

We're getting tattoos.

We're going to start them smoking.

Oh, it's going to be fun.

I also want to say thank you to everybody who came out in San Antonio.

I did the Pop Madness Festival.

A little special thing for my book in San Antonio.

It was an amazing time.

Thank you for everybody being there.

We're doing some more book events coming up as the softcover version of the book comes out with, guess what, over 20 additional pages with a bunch of fun stuff in there.

All right, let's get into this show.

Here's something fun.

We're going to do a little throwback.

That's right.

We're going to go back to a time when...

This show wasn't called Last Looks.

It was a time when I did something called Paul's Helpline.

That's right.

Mark Ranger, hit the theme.

Ooh, it feels good to be back.

That's right.

The Paul's helpline where I help you figure out what is going on with your life.

And I got a call from Boise.

My man Chris got a question.

Hi, Jason Nepal.

It's Chris and Boise.

I am excited for the show during Treeport, but I have a question for you guys.

If you were going to Treeport Music Festival as a fan, what bands would you check out that are on the schedule?

Thanks for doing such a great show.

Look forward to see you guys later.

Oh, Chris,

what kind of question is this?

I don't know what to tell you.

I mean, it's a great question.

The first answer I'm going to say is see any band, but don't go see any bands on Friday

between 7 and 10 p.m.

Go see anything else.

Great.

But Friday between 7 and 10 p.m., avoid music.

Come see comedy.

Stay indoors.

Wouldn't you like to see a live taping of how did this get made at 8 p.m.

at the Morrison Center for the Performing Arts?

I mean, who wants to be outside?

Boo, boo on that.

No, but the Tree Fort Fest has an amazing lineup, except for Friday night when you should be seeing us.

Shaky Graves,

you got Josh Ritter, you got Sophie Tucker, you got Bright Eyes.

That's good.

And again, those are all not playing at the same time.

But truly, this list is so big that I need glasses to read all the names on this Tree Fort list.

So come out, see us.

A festival pass gets you in.

If you didn't know about it, tell your friends and boise.

We'd love to see them.

And now we're going to expand the helpline into just questions on Discord.

So I can just answer the question.

Basically, I'm answering a lot of touring questions.

For the Toronto show, people are upset because

people say, well,

the balcony is beneath the gallery.

Let me tell you something.

First of all, not just Jason.

June, myself, we all know the balcony monsters.

And yeah, anything above the main floor, we consider balcony.

We know the higher you get, the more insane the people are.

That's just because of an oxygen thing.

But if you are above the main floor, you are a balcony.

I mean, look, if there are seats on the main floor, take the main floor seats.

But, you know,

you're not going to get a limited experience.

I know you want to be a balcony monster.

Just get a good seat.

Don't worry about anything else.

But I will say this.

Everybody's a balcony monster.

Even some balcony monsters sneak in on that main floor.

I've seen it.

Now, make sure you get your tickets to Toronto.

You guys have been buying tickets like crazy.

I can't believe it.

They're going fast.

So make sure you get them before it's done.

All right.

Our spring tour is headed your way.

We're going to be in Austin.

Austin, come out and see us.

Denver, Boise, Seattle, San Fran, and Portland.

All right, that's all the pugs I got.

So let's get into it.

Last week, we talked at length about Doppelganger.

We had a lot of questions, and we might have even missed a few things.

Here is your chance to set us straight.

Fact check us, if you will.

It is now time for corrections and omissions.

Hit the theme.

Well, my freaky darlings, it's that time again.

Corrections and omissions.

Paul Shearer is our friend.

Got a little mixer, got a painting on the wall.

Dorian Donovan.

Well, my freaky

Thank you, Ethereal Burn.

Let's go to the Discord, people.

All right, Sean McBee, hey, Sean, writes, back in New York, when the doctor is sexing up Holly before she kills her mom, we can see the creepy worm version of her reflected in his glasses.

And speaking of the creepy worm creature, I found it funny that Sister Sexline compares doppelgangers to the Walking Dead when the doppelganger creature effects in this movie were done by none other than Greg Nicotero, the man responsible for the zombie effects on AMC's Walking Dead.

And you know what, Sean McBee, do your research and also my makeup effects in the film Piranha 3D.

Wow.

Okay, great.

Oh, look at that.

Yes, there it is in his glasses.

There's a little image that Sean McBee uses to show a little bit, a little...

It's hard.

It's hard.

Like, now that I know, I guess I see it, but was it happening?

Because if it's reflected in his glasses, his glasses are not like seeing inner souls.

I don't know.

Maybe they are at different prescriptions.

Jon Steele writes, why was Holly afraid of the cat?

And why did they seem to make it a plot point?

It never pans out.

You would think that the cat would have come into it by identifying the doppelganger or something.

Yeah, well, I guess, you know, you're right.

I guess they just had a cat and they wanted to make sure they got it.

People like cats.

I don't know.

What else we got?

All right, Zillow21 writes, in my opinion, this movie 100% suggests that the worm is a demon and that there is a battle of good and evil for the possession of Holly Gooding.

Just a few examples.

One, the movie opens with the movie box with the angel figurine.

Two, we've seen multiple shots of angels in the background or even directly behind Holly.

Birds are a motif and synonymous with angels or the spiritual realm.

Three, lots of white with black costuming.

The last scene symbolizes that the demon has taken over.

She knocks the music box with the angel to the floor because the demon now fully possesses her.

So maybe the worm battle is just two demons fighting over possession and has nothing to do with a doppelganger since the movie suggests that Dr.

Heller is the doppelganger.

Wow.

Zillow21, you just blew my mind.

I guess why were two demons inside one person?

Why don't you just go like, you know what?

Hey, you're already here.

I'll go to the next place.

And why do angels and demons look the same?

And is that to say that we all have a worm person inside of us?

And then sometimes we have an evil worm person?

Like, I've got questions.

I think your answers are pretty good, but I got questions.

Dr.

Guts1003 writes, among all the Christian iconography in the film, Dr.

Heller is thrown through a stained glass window depicting St.

George and the dragon.

The legend involves a dragon that was extorting tribute from the villagers.

When they ran out of livestock, they started giving up human tribute once a day.

And one day, a princess was chosen as a next offering.

As the princess walked towards the dragon's cave, St.

George saw her and asked why she was crying.

The princess told him about the dragon's atrocities and asked him to flee immediately in fear that he might be killed too.

St.

George refused to flee, slayed the dragon, and rescued the princess.

Obviously, Dr.

Heller is the dragon and Holly is the princess, but would we consider Patrick or Holly's doppelganger to be playing the role of St.

George?

Dr.

Gutz, my answer to that is, I don't know.

I don't know.

Let's go to the phones.

Rob from Philly.

What do we got?

Hey, this is Rob from Philly.

I just got done with Doppelganger, and I'm having some trouble.

So Dr.

Heller, who, as we know, is everybody in this movie at some point.

But Fred, the brother,

Drew Barrymore says that he was implicated in the murder.

Now, we have to understand that he was 11 years old, she says at the time.

But if he was the one that was implicated in the murder, not her, not anybody else, does that mean that Dr.

Heller dressed up like an 11-year-old boy and threw the father out the window?

I don't know.

Maybe this is explained in a movie, and I have just lost my entire goddamn mind watching this entire thing.

I used to be Team Sanity, but I just don't think I have it left in me anymore.

It just left my body.

Please help.

Thank you.

You're great.

Bye.

Oh,

whoa, you just blew my mind.

I'm going to say yes.

Yes.

No, maybe?

No.

Because Dr.

Heller did try to kill the brother, as Drew Barrymore.

So no.

But that would have been a great yes.

John Not Connor writes, is it possible that Holly herself, not the demon inside of her, killed Heller?

Patrick is the only witness.

Time and again, the movie shows us something creepy that turns out to be Patrick's nightmare or delusion.

Possibly, Patrick's encounter with the two halves of Holly's personality is driving him crazy.

So maybe we can't trust Patrick's POV.

John Nock Connor, this is what I was saying, not so eloquently, but yes, did it even happen?

Did it even happen?

I say not.

I say that Patrick loves to invent things because he's a writer and he created an more interesting version of a girl that was giving him mixed signals.

And this is the story.

And that might even be the truth of why this movie was made.

Grumble Bottom writes, I am a D D nerd.

The great Greg Nicotero did the creature effects in this movie and I think he's a DD nerd as well.

The first edition of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons monster manual in 1977 lists a creature called Doppelganger.

Unlike its Germanic folklore origins, the Dnd D doppelganger was a shapeshifter that would take the form of its target and replace the original.

In D ⁇ D lore, their true form was a tall, gangly, and bug-eyed creature, much like the Nicotero monster form in the film.

They have a little image here from the 77 monster manual.

Wow, that does look exactly like it.

Now, here's where the problem is.

Seems like Greg Nicotero was doing his own thing, but it's contradicting the other thing, which is she is not a doppelganger.

She's never taken on anybody else's side, but I guess maybe the doppelganger, I bet I have issues because if she, well, maybe the doppelganger thing he's taking on is

her, but she's inside of her.

I don't know.

All right.

This is confusing, but wow, great deep pull, grumble bottom.

Everybody has been A plus this week.

But the real A plus goes to Ryan says, who is giving us some how did this get made stats?

Okay.

This is after doppelganger.

We got some updates here okay so so far how did this get made all-stars danny treaux has been in five movies that we have done anaconda badass reindeer games con air and doppelganger uh scott lawrence three appearances time cop the first power and doppelganger george newburn theodore rex and doppelganger sean whalen tammy and doppelganger Tina Litford, Jaws of Revenge, and Doppelganger.

Donald Borchers, Highlander 2 producer, Tough turf producer, and yes, producer of Doppelganger.

So doppelgangers has really arisen a lot of people's how did this get made stats up there.

Now,

Ryan also is updating with Oscar winners.

So right now, Zoe Seldana, she got an Oscar, but she was also in Crossroads.

Peter Strahan, who wrote Conclave, also wrote The Snowman.

Okay,

now there's a lot of nominees this year.

Obviously, Jeremy Strong was in Serenity and The Happening, right, before he was nominated for The Apprentice.

Guy Pierce was in Bloodshot.

We have Sebastian Stan, who was in The Covenant.

We have Isabella Rossellini, who was in Tough Guys Don't Dance.

Jesse Eisenberg was in Zack Snyder's Justice League.

Ray Fienes is in The Avengers.

Demi Moore was in Nothing But Trouble.

LOL, Strip Ts, and of course got a big nomination for the substance.

James Mangold, Caitlin Leopold, he wrote it.

Tim Bevan, Drop Dead Fred, the Snowman, and

Katz.

And wow, Academy Award come to how did this get made?

I mean, look, we have all been there.

We've all made some stinkers.

And you know what?

We learn.

And then we go win or get nominated for an Academy Award.

So thank you, Ryan says, for updating our Oscar winners, our biggest appearances.

It's giving you a lot of information this week.

And I don't even know.

I don't even know who to go to because Ryan says you're doing the Lord's work.

You're keeping up with all this sort of stuff.

So there's a part of me that says, hey, you're the winner this week.

Then there's another part of me that goes, oh, Grumble Bottom.

You actually went to the 1977 Monster Manual of D and D and you found this thing that actually connects the movie in a really interesting way.

Dr.

Guts told me a story I forgot all about.

I don't buy into Zilla's concept at all.

But then I also go, oh my gosh, Sean McBee literally shows us how the movie shows its end in the very beginning.

I don't know, people.

Honestly, this week, you're all damn winners.

You're all damn winners.

And you know what?

You get this amazing song from Scarecrow.

Hit it.

Congratulations!

You are the winner.

Do you win a t-shirt

or a free dinner?

Some movie tickets,

a soundtrack CD.

Nope.

Oh,

you just win this stupid song from me.

all right if you want to chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode hit up to discord at discord.gg slash hdtgm now just a little bit jason will stop by to talk about everything that we are watching on tv

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Welcome back, people.

By now, I'm sure you've noticed that every week we re-release old How Did This Get Made episodes back into our feed.

These are called matinee episodes.

So don't get freaked out.

When they come out, they're not new ones, they're old ones.

Okay, we did Shattered, and next week will be The Wraith with Tim Baltz.

You know, Tim from The Righteous Gemstones.

What a great show.

It's him and Eliza Skinner.

It's a great episode.

So keep on checking out our replays of classic episodes.

And without any further ado, it is time to welcome Jason to Last Looks for a little just chat.

Chris Finky, play us in.

If your bookshelf's getting dirty, you better dust that.

If a barrel's all corroded, it's a real rust bat.

Your fedora's sitting crooked, adjust hat.

With Paul and Jason on the mic, you know it's just chat.

Just chat.

Jason, how are you?

Paul, look at us.

Here we are.

We are here.

And I I got to tell you, you know,

because we are here, I want to share with you a real conversation that I've been having with people about something that I've been watching, and I can't stop talking about it.

And the show is Paradise

on Hulu.

I think I may have even said it to you on the side.

I haven't watched it.

I know it's the new This Is Us.

Dan Fogelman show.

Yes.

Yep.

I will say this.

I don't want to spoil anything.

If you don't know anything about it, I'm not going to reveal anything about it.

All I'm going to say is it's about uh the president and his uh you know his secret service guy right that's yeah that is and that's sterling k brown k brown uh as a star of the show james marsden is the president i don't want to reveal a thing because i oddly did not know anything about it and it was such a wonderful gift how the show kind of evolves and changes and it is

it is riveting television i I couldn't stop watching.

I love it.

I couldn't stop watching it.

And yeah, you and Gabris is the other person who recently recommended Paris.

I might have

infected Gabris with it because I know that we were both

with

a mutual friend and we're telling him and he's like, I'm hearing this from too many people.

Oh my God.

Yeah, this is so funny.

Okay.

So I think it's one of those shows that,

look,

it's got, it's going to scratch a lot of the itches that we talk about in this show.

And I'm not going to reveal anything more, but I will say that

I dare you to stop watching it because I literally, I was like, oh, I guess I'm staying up until three in the morning just to kind of power through these.

And I didn't do it all in one sitting, but I was like,

oh, I just want to keep on going.

And it's done in such a way where how many asks?

All I'll say, I think eight total.

Eight.

And at the time of this recording, the finale is not yet available.

All I will say is this.

In a show or we have watched a lot of shows that keep you hanging, it feels like, oh, well, this is, you know, we'll never get to the bottom of this.

This definitely feels like a show where they keep on adding stuff that you're like, whoa, wait, what?

And answering.

So they're like...

Okay, that's what I was going to say.

Do you feel like they are providing answers to some stuff?

Like, you know, that's always for me

the mystery box component, which is, okay, these are all great ideas.

I love what you're putting into motion, but then, oh, are you able to close the deal?

Everything's fulfillingly threaded.

And I feel like that's, and that's why I couldn't stop watching because it was simply like, oh, the hooks.

Yeah.

I mean, and I guess that's the whole idea of streaming.

Is that like the that's a whole Netflix thing is, you know, build it so that it's impossible to stop.

And yeah, and by the way, uh, I'm, I was all in.

So Hulu, paradise, you like it.

Yeah.

And

I can't wait to talk to you about it at one point, only because there are so many fun little Easter eggs in it that, again, I won't spoil, but fun, fun.

All right.

I'm excited.

I'm on board for that.

You know,

I like Stillian K.

Brown.

I watched a bunch of This Is Us at the beginning.

I think I think Fogelman's great.

I think that's, I'm curious.

And everybody I've heard from similarly is having a blast.

So why?

I'm in.

I'll do it.

I've, I watched,

maybe it's not similar because, but it sounds like a little bit of politics and stuff like that.

Although I know Paradise has a whole other, you know, component to it.

But did you guys watch The Diplomat?

You know, June has Harry Russell.

He loves The Diplomat.

It's incredible.

Yeah.

It's so good.

Season two as Allison Jani joins the cast.

It is, I think, dynamite, you know, as a, you know, in that

very good, elevated,

but what feels just like a simple, forward-moving, not procedural necessarily, but like, I feel like The Diplomat and Black Doves, did you watch that

nightly show, Black Doves?

Those two shows to me feel similar in that, like, I don't have to be deep into this.

There's not like 7,000 layers that I need to dig underneath to get to what the meaning is.

It's they're very pulpy and very fun.

fun and then impeccably acted.

I think the diplomat's a bit more.

Well, that's like what's those are the TV shows that I really just get into because it reminds me of what I loved about 24, right?

24 was such a fun show.

And yeah, some seasons better than others.

But the core of it, it was just a really fun, well-acted

thriller.

And, you know, it got more ridiculous as things went on.

But, but at the but at the core of it, it's just that's kind of that addictive simple television.

I think that sometimes we've gone past the point of the hook or we've made everything the hook, or everything like more complicated, and we cease to be like, Well, but you also need to care about these people.

Like, we need to be

to also like close some circuits, you know, like some things need to be done and put aside, and more new stuff.

And, you know, like there, there is some, and I mean, we've talked about this before a bunch, but boy, am I enjoying all the shows that are essentially modern riffs on a Colombo Magnum PI?

Absolutely.

Your Elsbeths, your high potentials,

all these detective shows where there is no whodunit.

You see in the first scene who did it.

Oh, there's Nathan Lane committing murder.

And now the rest of the show is just Nathan Lane and Carrie Preston head-to-head.

It's a lot of fun.

And I still don't know why my character has not been able to come to New York.

Anyway, I'm going to get into

I'm really going to have to figure this out.

I'm going to have to really get in there.

I know we were talking last time.

We kind of teased a couple of things.

You know, you were mentioning Shorzy, and I have to say, I'm very happy that when I go to Hulu now, Shorzy is up in the top bar.

I don't know if that's just because their algorithm is

tweaking.

Maybe they know you've watched it before or something like that, but it is season four has just come out and is phenomenal.

I crushed the whole thing in one night.

I mean, it's a six, well, it's six episodes of 25 minutes.

Right.

So it's very doable.

And it is, as opposed to what we were talking about before, it is just one forward-moving narrative.

So it is very rewarding as a large watch.

But it is, you know, this is a show from the Letter Kenny people, Jared Kiso and everyone.

And it is a feel-good sports TV show, which is not my wheelhouse at all, but it is so, so, so funny in that way that like a slapshot or a bad news bears is absolutely hilarious, so funny, but then such surprising amount of genuine heart.

You know, like a real feel-good story in ways that are consistently surprising for these dirtbag characters.

It's absolutely delightful.

I am excited to check into that.

You know, I will be having,

you know, as we've talked about, the How Did This Get Made tour, June has gotten a gig that has kind of put her out of pocket for a bit.

So that means I'm going to get to pick my own stuff.

You know, not just watch Severance season two, episode two, four times in a row, which is where I'm at right now.

Oh no, every night I want to watch so funny severance.

I'm like, okay, great.

And I'm assuming June falls asleep.

She falls asleep

and she's getting there incrementally.

So we were, I think we have about 10 minutes left in season two, episode two.

But do you have to start from the beginning?

Well, we got to remember where we were.

And so we always go back about 15 minutes.

This is very funny.

It becomes like this battle.

And so then I don't watch ahead because I know it's only going to only burn me because then I'm just like, I'm hoping that you'll say something or reference something.

She often will go through nights where she immediately falls asleep like that.

And when I say immediately, like you think, oh, we're going to like, we'll rewind it back to where she thinks she remembers.

And then by the time.

we get to the part where she actually fell asleep, she's already asleep.

So it's, it's not, we're not making like this is what this is fascinating it's a while like and and and then i'm not quite sure when she's asleep and i'm not going to wake her up but i oh okay that was going to be my question is can't is there no way for you to monitor i try i try and so i what i what i normally wind up doing is is putting my hands over her eyes and just double checking that she's out you do like the mirror up to her

to see if she's if it fogs up because i'm like i it really does like and but yet then i come home and she's like oh yeah i watched all slow horses all four seasons like what when when she's oh my god thank god thank god finally this is like this is what i'm talking about like so i don't know when she is able to devour this stuff like i've been watching all the oscar movies before the oscars and june hadn't watched a single one but i've been kind of pacing myself since you know since new year's and she watched them all she watched every one of them except for dune 2 which i don't think that she has any interest in i'm i keep on telling her you got to watch dune you got to watch dune 2 oh two of my favorite yeah you know but she refuses.

So, yeah, it is a battle.

So, now I can kind of enjoy.

Okay, so you can get into Shorzy.

I can't recommend Shorzy enough.

I think it is one of the best, if not the best comedy on TV right now, full stop.

I think it's fantastic.

If you want to hear me really dig in on Shorzy, this last week's episode of The Watch podcast,

The Ringer, Chris Ryan and I go hard for well over an hour on Shorzy and some other stuff that I will shout out here as well.

And I saw that you were on camera for it.

There's a lot of cameras being, there was a lot going on.

I was, I mean, I was for a audio podcast, I was ushered into a small black room in a Spotify basement where they had a ton of cameras.

Boy, was that unsettling.

Wow.

I don't like podcasting for cameras.

Neither do I.

Make a show, make a thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm just, I'm talking here.

I don't want to think about like, how's my posture?

Like, what am I?

Right, right.

You know, I'm not interested, but, but I love CR.

One of the best podcasts, The Watch remains one of my favorite podcasts.

So delighted to get on there and talk to him about our beloved Shorzy.

Yeah.

I will shout out the other shows we talked about were the two Stephen Knight shows that are going on right now.

Stephen Knight, who created Peaky Blinders, as well as a million other things.

So season two of SAS Rogue Heroes is out now on MGM Plus.

Why is it on MGM Plus?

Who the fuck knows?

Nobody has it, but you can sign up for a week and watch the whole episode, the whole series in that week very easily.

Well, this whole idea of MGM Plus, it was supposed to be a part of like Amazon, but it's not.

And

there's so many things.

This idea, it's so bald.

So you have Amazon, you own MGM,

but wait a minute.

And

you are a pay

service.

So, So, but there's also MGM Plus for some of these other.

I don't know.

But yeah, there's no MGM regular.

But it seems like you're stealing Disney Plus.

Like, there's no MGM.

Like, there is at least a Disney channel.

No, no, no.

It's true.

It's a whole mess.

It makes no sense.

But I will say, SAS Rogue Heroes Season 2,

it's a World War II show about the creation and execution of the SAS, which is like, you know, British Special Forces SEAL team kind of vibes.

But it is just a ragtag.

It's like, what if the Dirty Dozen was a show?

Oh, I love that.

Download this whole thing for the tour.

A ragtag group of basically like lunatics are sent in early to war zones in order to disrupt everything.

So, season two

takes place in Italy.

It's the Italy campaign.

So, it is fascinating.

It's a great show.

And then, the other Stephen Knight show that's on right now is on Hulu, so much easier to get or on Disney.

This show is called A Thousand Blows.

And if you liked Peaky Blinders, this is right in that wheelhouse.

It is a period-specific 1800s London show that is about street-level petty crime gangs.

Not like mobsters like the Peaky Blinders, but like pickpockets and,

you know, bare-knuckle boxers.

And it's, it feels, it's, has huge scale and scope, super fun, a ton of characters like Peaky Blinders.

It's got bare knuckle boxing.

It's got, it's, it is a blast.

I, I love this.

I mean, these are shows that I feel like I haven't even heard about.

The woman who's the star of it, whose name I'm not going to forget, she plays Mary on the show, is

incredible.

This performance is unreal.

She plays the queen of the elephants, who are like the all-female gang of like pickpockets and ne'er-do-wells that are populating this area of London.

It is fantastic.

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Well, I want to give a shout out to something that which is I'm reading Jonathan Ames's latest book, Carma Doll.

Yep.

I love Jonathan Ames.

I've always been a fan of him.

Don't tell me any different.

So far, I'm midway through, and I'm just loving it because the book, and this is the premise of it, is this guy's on the run.

He's done some bad stuff.

And he gets reconstructive surgery to kind of hide his face.

And that is the beginning.

It's the third in this series.

It's a detective, right?

It's a detective series of like a pulpy, noir-y.

Yeah.

It's in this character.

I've not read these books before.

I know it's the third one of it, but this guy's kind of like a shitty, he's, I don't know, he gets into trouble.

Like this guy gets into trouble.

And it's not like a clean detective or, you know, whatever it is.

But the, I am,

I am really, I'm loving it.

And it like great.

And I just, yeah.

So Carmedal is a hard recommend.

And you can like, you know, look, they got the audio books in there too.

And so you can get that as well.

I like that.

But it's funny.

it's good, and he's, I just think, I just, I'm a fan, I'm a fan, a big fan.

Uh, so I've just been reading also in that same kind of hard-boiled uh detective-y world, the James Crumley C.W.

Segrew books, uh, which are so fucking fun in the same way, so fun, so funny, so so absolutely hilarious, um, because they are both like terrific, hard-boiled stories, but then also, like, the character gets into such hilarious exploits.

Like, in the first book, he's hired to track down like a notorious, boozy, brawly author

who's on a bender.

It's like the 70s, who's like on a bender.

And so, first he has to find the guy, then he has to try and convince him to go home, but really, they just go on benders together while they then discover and seek out a different case together.

It's a blast.

Oh, I can't wait.

You know,

I was reading about him here on the Wikipedia as we were trying to figure some stuff out about him.

And I love this fact.

According to a longtime friend, he did cocaine.

This is the author.

He did cocaine six days a week, ate five times a day, and drank a bottle of whiskey every day.

He goes, this is how I like to live.

If I live 10 years less, so what?

Yeah.

He was survived by his fifth wife of 16 years.

Wow.

Oh, yeah.

I'm not surprised at all.

The first book,

the books are many years between installments.

So in the first first book, the character, it's like a Hunter S.

Thompson book.

The character is doing so many drugs constantly.

And the drugs are and drinking.

And the drugs and drink are impairing him so much.

And that's such a part of the book is, is he too drunk now to fight these guys?

And it's so funny.

It is a great series of books that I'm really enjoying.

Oh, I got to get into that because I love like the, I love like, what's the name?

Sure, like the Parker books or all the Dashel Hammett stuff, but like yes, by the way, you know, Shane Black is doing Parker.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Oh, that's interesting.

With Mark Wahlberg.

Interesting choice.

Mark Wahlberg, a unsuccessful version, I would say, of Spencer.

I just started re-watching both Spencer for Hire and

Rockford Files, both of which are available on Amazon Prime.

Incredible.

I am a bit, I was trying to reboot Rockford Files forever and then it was going to go to Vince Bond, which I actually thought was a great idea.

And yeah, and it's the same

friend.

They made it with Dermot Mulrooney.

They made it with Dermot Mulroney.

Wait, did they?

Oh, yeah.

I didn't know that.

Oh, my gosh.

So my friend got hired to redo the Rockford files again.

These are the Spencer for Hire, Rockford, Magnum.

These are all like Fletch.

Fletch is the one that to me, I'm like, they made the, Mattola and Ham made the streaming one that I really enjoyed.

I thought that was great.

But

I want more of that.

Give me those, you know,

which would be great.

Yeah.

By the way, this thing that you talked about with Domit Mulooney never even aired.

You couldn't see it.

You can't see it.

A failed, failed pilot.

Oh, funny.

Okay.

That's like the Maria Bello Prime Suspect, which was another redo that I was like, oh, yeah, Prime Suspect.

Yes.

Let's do it, you know?

Oh.

That would be great.

And that's the thing.

It's like, what is it?

Well, also with Rockford, you really need that charming swagger.

Like what Magnum has in the Tom Sellek Magnum is such fun and he's such a, he's so light.

He has such a light touch that the modern Magnum just doesn't have.

You know, the modern Magnum feels like it has more in common with CSI than it does the original Magnum PI.

You know, it just, it feels like casework, less so detective.

Right, right, right.

No, I think that that's totally true.

And like, again, it's, you know, I feel like we all want to just jump in and have these like fun little adventures.

Again, like you said, like, it's like we don't want to get too invested in it.

Eight episodes, six episodes.

It's fun.

We get in and out.

I love this new cast list for poker face season two.

Which looks great.

Really love that.

Absolutely love that show.

That's a show.

I tried to do a Colombo a bunch of years ago.

I wanted to redo Colombo.

Very hard to figure out.

And they have crushed it, I think, really.

I really, yeah, I agree.

Just while we're briefly in books, I know we're moving on, but I will just shut out.

The incredible singer-songwriter Nico Case has a new autobiography called The Harder I Fight, the More I Love You.

And I started the audiobook the other day, and I'm already 100% in on this book.

It's fantastic.

Okay, well, I'm going to talk about this book that I mentioned last time very briefly, but I'll talk about it.

The Lauren Michaels book, brand new Lauren Michaels book, written by somebody at the New Yorker.

It is fascinating.

Like fascinating in a way that I, look, I've read the backstage history of SNL that was made, you know,

the Tom Shales book.

But

the original one, the one that was like in 1966.

Oh, yeah, he was so sorry.

I see.

So there, I've read, and I, and, and like, there's a part of me that's like, well, yeah, I know these stories, but I think there is something, you know, as they are in year 50 and looking back and people really now telling the stories.

There's a lot of, I think, less polish in this book in a wonderful way.

Like, people are honest.

And I think it paints a really cool picture of Lauren Michaels for all of his

flaws and for all of his genius.

And I think, and it weights them equally.

And you could see, like, there's a, I think what I've understand from this book is because he authorized it, he's given this person amazing access to follow him.

And the way the book is structured, which I love, is

a week at SNL, Monday through Saturday, and it's broken up like every day has a big chapter, but then in between those days is the history of SNL.

So, like right now,

I am in Saturday and I am in

Dana Carvey just left.

Like that whole crew just left.

Dana Carvey just left and you're in show night, Saturday night, right?

Right.

So that's like, it's like give you an idea of like the whole thing.

And I will tell you this: Jonah Hill is the host.

Maggie Rogers is the musical guest the week that she's embedded.

And man, oh man, they do not hesitate to talk shit about the host and the musical guest.

And there is a really funny moment in it.

Like he, Lauren Michaels does not like Maggie Rogers in this at all.

Like he is upset that she's on the show.

He does not like what she's playing.

Wow.

Now, this is granted a while ago.

Yeah, yeah.

This is, well, Maggie Rogers was interesting because I believe when she, is this her first SNL appearance, right?

Yes.

I believe at that time, like, she had been plucked out of an NYU class by like Pharrell or something like that.

Like, she was like literally brand new you know exactly this is like you know this this is the episode jonah's on there to promote mid-90s so it's a it's a handful of years ago right

and um and they're talking about the new musical acts but one of the things that has been really funny is again and the whole book is like this um but like i guess uh alec baldwin punched somebody uh during the week because they were over a parking space in new york city right oh just like a civilian like the first

right?

And this is before Russ, this is before anything.

This is just Alec Baldwin.

But not at the studio or something like that.

No, no, no.

This is him.

And he, there is a moment where Lauren is sitting around with all of his lieutenants, and Tina comes in because they're working on a five-timers club sketch.

And they all just riff and do bits about Alec Baldwin punching this person.

And it's like, oh, what?

Did everyone forget that this

order is here?

Because they're like, they're just going,

going at it.

Like every single one of them is like, yeah, you're like just drilling.

And it's so

that's very funny.

That's just really funny.

It's really, really funny.

Well, that's the stuff that I love.

And that's what you do get, I will say, in a lot of the podcast

chats, like whether it's Dana, Carvey, and David Spades show or the Lonely Island and Seth Meyers podcast.

All of these SNL podcasts that are talking, going deep dives into SNL, they can be a little bit, you know, polite or, you know, a little bit, you know, a party line, but every once in a while, someone tells a story that's absolutely fantastic and so great.

I watched all the SNL documentaries, all the SNL that have come out recently.

Right.

And they were great.

But boy, that.

Quest love one, I thought was fantastic.

And really

amazing.

Really just does the point he's making in it, which is, I think, really fantastic, is this show should be just as much acknowledged for its importance in history,

music history, in the last 50 years, not just comedy history,

not just a show.

Like, that's what he's kind of saying in it.

You know, he has this thing, which is like, this show broke a lot of huge acts, you know?

And I think that that was one of the cool things about that SNL 50.

We were talking about it because while it was happening, is like it just.

They celebrated that and gave it its own night because it is its own thing.

And those performances, you know, whether it's like Sinead O'Connor ripping up, you know the picture of the pope you have those moments but then you also just have like these great bands that would have never gotten play there's one little part of the book that I really love which is

when Lauren's about to step away for the first time when he well the only time when he's about to leave

he says to the cast okay and this is like Bill Murray and Jane Curtin it's like Let's just like, who do you want us to book on the show?

And they just book the randomest assortment of musicians because, like, oh, Bill Murray's like, I like this blues guy.

I would like to bring this.

And, and it's like, and there was a real freedom to that.

And I know, Lauren Michael, we were talking about this a couple episodes ago.

Like, Lauren Michael said that other show he produced on NBC was like a sun.

Oh, I can talk about this for forever.

Yeah, they talk about this in the book, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so at a certain point, um, Hal Wilner, who is the musical director of SNL, is like a genius, like music person in the world, music producer as well.

In that time, he is a producer of like a lot of records that are tributes to artists.

So it'd be like a Thelonious Monk album that is a tribute to Thelonious Monk, but all the people playing it are like staples of the downtown New York jazz scene or the out avant-garde improviser scene.

He made albums that are interpretations of the music of Walt Disney, the music of Looney Tunes, Thelonious Monk, Harry Parch.

He's made incredible albums.

So at a certain point, Lorne gets control over Sunday night, the same block of time as SNL, 11:30 to 1.

And Hal Wilner books it as it is just, it's called night music.

And it is, it's basically what if the whole show was just musical guests.

And what's, and it's all on YouTube.

It's some of the most incredible stuff.

My drum teacher used to record it on Sunday nights on a VHS and give it to me because the acts acts on any episode, it would be like Sonic Youth, the Sun Ra Orchestra, like a blues guitarist, you know, and then like,

you know, Linda Ronstadt.

It would be

incredible pairings.

I'm looking at it right here.

It's like Eric Clapton playing with like Robert Cray,

Lou Reed, and John Kale with Harry Connick Jr.

and Paul Schaefer, you know, like it's the first time that like the Pixies are on TV.

It's the first time that all these huge younger bands are given a chance to be on TV.

Bob Weir and Warren Zevon.

So good.

Yeah, night music, a lot of it's on YouTube and I cannot recommend it enough.

I've talked about it here before, but it is exceptional television.

It is

especially if you like an artist, look up if they were ever on night music because boy is it satisfying.

And there's a great

collection of them all on Brooklyn Vegan.

If you just type in Brooklyn Vegan, great.

Night music.

And while we're on music, let me just shout out two big music things, one of which is absolutely my favorite working band Destroyer, singer-songwriter Dan Behar.

New album coming out at the end of the month, going on tour.

Three songs are up.

Absolutely incredible.

Incredible songs.

Can't be, can't recommend Destroyer enough.

And then one of my absolute favorite bands,

long-standing, long-running bands, Oneida from New York,

have put out a new record and they're touring.

And they are, I'm going to shout it out because they have not played live in la in i think like 14 or 15 years and they're playing march 22nd at the lodge room and i could not be more thrilled this is a band that demands to be seen live they are incredible and have one of the absolute best drummers uh in the world uh john culpitz aka kid millions just just crushing I can't wait.

All right, Jason, we'll be back soon to talk about more things that we love.

Thank you, Jason, for chatting with me.

But now it's finally time to announce our next movie.

All right, we're going to be going from doppelgangers to dancers.

I'm sorry, I didn't have a better rhyme for that.

Next week, we are watching the 2024

J-Lo film, This Is Me, dot, dot, dot, now.

That's right.

Is it a music video?

Is it a movie?

It's only 63 minutes, so there's that.

Here's a short breakdown of the plot.

This is Me Now.

A love story is nothing like you've ever seen from Jennifer Lopez.

Jennifer has created a a narrative-driven cinematic odyssey steeped in mythological storytelling and personal healing.

This genre-bending Amazon original showcases her journey to love through her own eyes with fantastical costumes, breathtaking choreography, star-studded cameos.

Oh yeah, the cameo's gonna fucking knock your socks off.

This panorama is an introspective, retrospective of Jennifer's resilient heart.

Wow, that is a great write-up.

All right.

Rotten Tomatoes gives this film a 75 on the tomato meter.

Movie critic and my co-host on the unspooled podcast, Amy Nicholson, says this movie is a fun, short, experimental film.

It's a very self-mocking and open film.

I found it endearing.

And you know what?

I got to say, Amy, I agree.

I kind of loved it.

It's insane, but it's also...

just

fucking great.

Of all the stuff that we watch, more of this.

It's like megalopolis in a way, but like only 63 minutes.

Here's what I'll say.

It's on Amazon.

You can watch it.

Here's a trailer.

I know what they say about me.

About hopeless romantics.

That we're weak.

And I'm not weak.

You must respect the ebb and flow of the universe.

All right, that's a trailer.

You can watch it on Amazon Prime.

I don't know if you can get this at Hoopla or Canopy or Libby.

I don't know.

Try, maybe.

But people, it's a fun one to watch.

Check it out.

And by the way, if you are interested in Unspooled, we did a great Oscars breakdown, but that's now in the past.

But this week, we are battling

what is the best movie of 2005.

Because the question always is, will anyone remember who won these Academy Awards in 20 years?

And we go back to 2005 and go, what movie actually has

the most

like longevity?

Not what the best movie is, but like what created the biggest ripples?

And I'll tell you, one of the movies that got into the finals, I am shocked that I got behind.

Anyway, that is it for Last Looks.

If you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please rate and review us.

Please also make sure you are following us and have automatic downloads turned on.

And we appreciate it.

Visit us on social media at HTTGM.

And a big thank you to our producers, Cody Fisher and Molly Reynolds, our movie picking producer Avery Halley, and our associate producer, Jess Cisneros, as well as our engineer, Casey Holford.

We will see you next week for This Is Me Now, a Love Story.

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