"Rode Hard And Put Away Wet" (w/ Will Ferrell & Harper Steele)

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.

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Speaker 1 Hey, everybody, it's me, Matt Rogers, letting you know tickets are on sale now to see me on tour. The Prince of Christmas tour, that is.

Speaker 1 I'm doing my whole album, Have You Heard of Christmas, plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www.mattroogersofficial.com to see me in a city near you.

Speaker 1 And now, Las Colch drums.

Speaker 1 Look, man.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see. My IOI.
Oh, and look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes.
Goodness. Wow.
Las cultoristas.

Speaker 1 Ding-dong. Las cultoristas calling.
I just whipped out an expression. You love this expression.
I do. I say it often.
I was rode. Hard and put away wet.

Speaker 1 And I kind of used it in this way to say, like, we're old dogs. We're broken in to this podcast.
Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we just...

Speaker 1 We're withered and weathered. Withered, weathered, rode hard and put away wet.
A frontrunner for title of that. I know we'll come up with something better.

Speaker 1 Did you want to ask about my sports pageantry?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're wearing, now people don't know about this, but Matt Rogers, being the Long Island king he is, is a huge fan of Prince, is a huge fan of the New York Mets. Major.
Major.

Speaker 1 So you're wearing a Mets t-shirt, and is that a baseball cap? A Mets baseball cap? I'm flipping it around to reveal it is actually a pride-themed Mets. cap that I got when I threw out the first pitch.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I threw out the first pitch last year at the Mets Pride game, and I got to tell you, it was a strike.

Speaker 1 And I threw it from the mound. You knew this.
I did, but then you went from the mound? I went from the mound. Yes.
Because you have to understand, my dad is a sports deck. That's right.

Speaker 1 He's baseball coaching. That's the rainbow ball they used for the day.
They really should have gone the extra mile there.

Speaker 1 But it wasn't. It was a match with a streamer.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 So it could be extra elegant and clear.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's exactly what Patnis was famous for doing. Throwing the rainbow balls.

Speaker 1 Wow, already off the races. Anyway, so it's a huge week for the New York Mets.
Explain. So I really can't, but I know that it's a big week.
In fact, I texted my father to explain.

Speaker 1 They went to the Mets game last night, and I said, can you explain what's happening with the Mets this week? Because I know it's a big week. And he said all these words.

Speaker 1 And so I know that they're playing the Braves, the Atlanta Braves.

Speaker 1 And they have to do well this week in order to stay in contention for playoffs. There's playoff implications.
Oh, there's major playoff implications.

Speaker 1 Another frontrunner for title of app. We're really rolling at it today.
But this is a major week, so I'm wearing my sort of geese and I pray for them. I pray for them.

Speaker 1 Now, this is something that I want to come back to, which is this idea of you don't have to understand something in order to appreciate and show love. Thank you so much.
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 You know what? I don't know how to do make clothes. And we're wearing them.
And we're wearing them.

Speaker 1 Wow. By the way, I love this.
Thank you. Bowen, would you want to describe what you're wearing? This little cable knit cardigan.
It is the second day of fall at the time of recording. Woo! Woo!

Speaker 1 We did it. We beat it.
I have to say. We beat summer.
It feels even better than the end of Labor Day weekend, which I famously said was the end of summer. But you were corrected.
Summarily.

Speaker 1 It was controversy. Yes.
And we caught a lot of controversy on this podcast.

Speaker 1 And now no one can say anything to me. It's fucking over.
Stew season.

Speaker 1 Stoop season. What is the stew you're going to make this week? I'm going to make a bo ko, which is a Vietnamese beef stew.
Lemongrass. Down, bitch.
Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm doing it on Sunday.

Speaker 1 We're back at work. You know, the top really jumps out when you talk about stew.
The top. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've really been looking forward to this episode. I saw one of our guests at Seth Meyers.
I had the privilege and honor of doing Second Chance Theater.

Speaker 1 Our guest remounted his...

Speaker 1 Legendary sketch called Mr. Cotter, where he plays someone who has basically just rearranged his life to look like his favorite actor, Gabe Kaplan, from the sitcom, Welcome Back, Cotter.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 no one knows what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 This is mid-made.

Speaker 1 People love John Travolta on this pod. We love Travolta.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so.
He's been on six times. He's been on six times.
Hilarious.

Speaker 1 We gave him jackets. Hilarious.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I stopped our guest. I said, you and Harper have to come on when the dock comes out.
Rave reviews at Sundance. I mean, come on, you know, 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.
That's all the percents.

Speaker 1 That's literally every percent you could get. And not for nothing, but you watch it and it works on every level.
I mean, it's an incredible story of friendship, of resilience.

Speaker 1 I mean, you'll learn, you will laugh. It's just got all the greats in it.
And I really feel like I had so many emotions watching it.

Speaker 1 It's one of those like true feats of documentary film in that it captures so much. I mean, like, it's, it's just fucking great.
Yeah, yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 Will and Harper, it's on Netflix September 27th.

Speaker 1 You simply must watch. We're simply so happy that our guests are here.
Give it up. Alphabetical.
Alphabetical. Last name.
Ready? Here we go. Welcome into your ears.
Will Faradall and Harper Steele.

Speaker 1 No. Yes.
Welcome to the show. Did you drive here?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did you? Did you?

Speaker 1 I love driving in New York. Oh, my God.
It was so easy today, too. Today.
There's some events going on, and I don't think it's Mariah Carey. It's Mariah Carey.

Speaker 1 She's performing at the UN General Assembly, which is also in town. Okay, that's going to be.

Speaker 1 I always come to Manhattan during the UN General Assembly. And I stay in Midtown, in the U.N.
area. Oh, yeah.
Do you ever try to try to get entry? I've tried a couple times as a foreign diplomat.

Speaker 1 You know. And I'm tackled to the ground.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I was surprised they didn't let y'all into the White House because I feel like when you pointed to your face and said, this is how we're getting in to see Big Joe, I thought this might work. No.
No.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I feel like you're going to get pushback, Will, because I think that one of the first things that's said in the film is you say, hi, I'm Will Farrell, one of the greatest actors of all time.

Speaker 1 And then Matt and I were like, well, yeah. Truly.

Speaker 1 You made it a joke and we think it's true. I don't like that.
Harper, are you listening to this? I'm not. My mic's off.
I can't hear anything no

Speaker 1 thank you i so appreciate that is this a matter of dispute between the two of you well it's been a little bit of a that's a point of yeah contention

Speaker 1 what is your greatest role oh thank you god i love this this is the greatest podcast ever i'm gonna say what is my greatest role i'm gonna say probably

Speaker 1 human being

Speaker 1 human being human being like you the way you the way you occupy space ever the way i occupy the way yeah I think people do think you're great, and I think people need to know that

Speaker 1 there's work. There's just work to be done.
We can improve every day.

Speaker 1 Work in progress. I'm a work in progress.
Yeah, sure. Are we all? Yeah, absolutely.
I feel I'm progressing. Yeah.
You're progressing.

Speaker 1 Every day. I'm almost there.

Speaker 1 Complete. Oh, you feel

Speaker 1 you feel pretty good. Like you're, yeah.

Speaker 1 I think so. Okay.
What is your greatest role? What is my greatest role? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Human being. I start sobbing.

Speaker 1 I say best friends. I start crying.

Speaker 1 This becomes emotional immediately.

Speaker 1 I did want to ask about, so in the beginning of the documentary, you talk about your beginnings at SNL. You really felt you were a flop.
You didn't think people were getting it at first? Well,

Speaker 1 I kind of have to warm up to the room. I see.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm not a guns ablaze and at least back then. Like, Sherry O'Tara was the only person.
So you were confident. Yeah, I was like,

Speaker 1 I wasn't a very subdued human being. Yeah, I was just more like feeling it out at first.

Speaker 1 There were already clicks that had formed, and people were way more, like, just really felt like they had been there the whole time. I'm like, wow.
It just was overwhelming.

Speaker 1 And yeah, but, but it's funny to hear. It was funny to hear after like, you know, a couple of rides were like, yeah, everyone just thought you were like, you seem nice, but

Speaker 1 he's not that funny.

Speaker 1 I don't know what he's going to do on the show. It's like, who is that guy?

Speaker 1 Why is he here?

Speaker 1 Even though it was the same start week for both of you. Yeah, we both started, but I had kind of come in with the Jon Stewart show.
So I had a little click, a little group of my own. And so

Speaker 1 I wasn't, I wasn't. And then Steve had already sort of gotten good in with the Second City people because of Cindy Capanera.
They were best friends.

Speaker 1 I kind of had a little bit in, and then I just would get asked every once in a while. We were all sort of sizing up the talent.
And I was also on the other side. My office was behind the page.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 The desk there on that side. Yeah, it wasn't part of the

Speaker 1 walk over to the writer's room table side and it was gales of laughter down there. Gales.
Gales. Gales.

Speaker 1 Bitscalore. Bits.
Everyone doing bits.

Speaker 1 And I was late on the bit and I didn't already understand the inside joke. And I'd go back to my quiet self-defense.

Speaker 1 Not a good feeling to be outside of the bit. No, I'm just like, well, also, he just wasn't up for like bidding for no.

Speaker 1 Do some long-distance phone calls? Yeah.

Speaker 1 On my phone?

Speaker 1 Doing your own bit.

Speaker 1 And then I was like, oh, I have to, I guess I'll go to IKEA and purchase my apartment. I don't know what else to do.
They brought us in so early, too. Like a month,

Speaker 1 a month in advance. Early, early, like into August.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That seems a little cool.
It was fun, though, because there's no pressure at that point. So the show's not happening for a long time.

Speaker 1 And you're like, I can't wait for the show to start, which obviously we know that's not really fun. But

Speaker 1 well, you two came, I think, and it's documented in the documentary. You two came on a read-through day, I remember, and you both came down to say hi to everybody.
It was so lovely.

Speaker 1 We'd heard the scuttlebutt that the doc was starting.

Speaker 1 Wasn't Travis Kelsey the host? It was Travis Kelsey. That was the week.
Yeah, we were so, we were once again overwhelmed because

Speaker 1 that was not read-through. Read-through in the studio is so foreign to us.
Totally. It was a little, yeah.
Oh, you know what? We're recording this right before the first week back.

Speaker 1 And by the time this comes out, I'll know whether or not we're back on 17.

Speaker 1 I think Lorne, that's the mission Lorne wants.

Speaker 1 It's such an intimate, such a better, well, I mean, we can't, I can't compare it because I didn't sit through a read-through on this, but what I saw, it looked sort of hollow.

Speaker 1 When you get up there on 17, it's intimate and there's lots of, yeah, the laughter you can hear. And, or when I wrote sketches, often you couldn't hear the laughter.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Acoustically, it's better up to 17.

Speaker 1 But by the time, when did the bit start of you walking around? And was it that you were Lisa Kudrow's brother? Like you were playing, or you were playing someone's brother.

Speaker 1 You were like in my character.

Speaker 1 Chip Kudrow.

Speaker 1 Lisa Kudrow's brother. There was no character, by the way.
No character.

Speaker 1 So you had glasses on.

Speaker 1 I had the same vocal intonation. I was grounded.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wore them. Your greatest role.
You could

Speaker 1 be human. You kind of, and Lisa, I think it's fine with this, but you kind of dumbed Chip down a little bit.

Speaker 1 Chip Kudra said really one line.

Speaker 1 He would sit at read-through, and we would all be going over the sketch, and Chip would just go, I would invert that. That's all it needs.

Speaker 1 Chip would be at the re-right table, he's super affable. Yeah, happy to have you.
I loved it. Oh, good.
Always showed up late. Always showed up late.
Sure. And then

Speaker 1 Chip would just sit there smiling and giving something. And then someone, Higgins or someone would go, Chip, do you have any notes? I'm like, I would invert it.

Speaker 1 I would do the funny part

Speaker 1 at the beginning. Exactly.
And then end on the

Speaker 1 end on the notes.

Speaker 1 Wait, well, so then what would happen? Where would Chip be? Like, where would Will be when Chip was kind of just holding, just being in the room? What would you do? Like Superman in Clark Kent.

Speaker 1 He could never find Will. And there was no distinguishing physical thing either.

Speaker 1 That's what made it even better than the whole Clark Kent bullshit.

Speaker 1 But at what point was there the comfort to broach Chip? Because that

Speaker 1 was huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that was at least, it was not the first year. No, that was a year.
It was probably second or third year. Yeah.
It's not bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Sometimes it takes people a couple seasons to

Speaker 1 show themselves. But that's the other place Harper and I bonded, just constantly reminding ourselves and everyone else at the show that like we're doing comedy.
Right. Let's not take it too seriously.

Speaker 1 We're going to fail. We know that.
Failing is kind of

Speaker 1 liberating, right?

Speaker 1 If you don't get all that. Gabe Kaplan.
Gabe Kaplan. But that ended up being such a triumph by the end.
Well, but sure.

Speaker 1 It took 20 years. It took 20 years to get a bunch of laughs.
But you know, all it needed was someone to show a picture of what Gabe Kaplan looked like.

Speaker 1 And then when the reveal is that you look like him, it's funny. Can I bring up, or you should talk about Box of Shit?

Speaker 1 Now talk about Bottom Shots and Shit. I don't know.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. I'm very proud of Box of Shit.
Yeah, the first two seasons. That's a rule of culture number 80.
I'm really proud of Box of Shit.

Speaker 1 The first few seasons of the SNL, I would compile a viewing party called The Box of Shit. It was the worst sketches of the year.
Good.

Speaker 1 And I had to, you have to include one of your own because you can't piss them. Imagine you did.

Speaker 1 We all had shitty sketches.

Speaker 1 Some people weren't invited to the Box of Shit viewing party because they didn't have the same attitude. Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah. Yeah, so you have to be careful there.

Speaker 1 But if you're thinking, was I on the box of shit? Yes, you were. Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 You have to be able to roll on the box of shit. Yeah.
It became a point of pride. Of course.

Speaker 1 And we had this one sketch, and I'm not going to name whose it was. It was a commercial parody, but there was a laugh on it that was from maybe

Speaker 1 42nd Street. It was the only laugh.
It was so far away from the building and so.

Speaker 1 And we just analyzed it over and over again. Was it a laugh? Where did it come from? But it was silent.
A commercial commercial parody that was silent. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, and the phantom laugh is just a fuzz of static. It was like

Speaker 1 40 seconds.

Speaker 1 And we're like, oh, that's just someone out on 40 seconds.

Speaker 1 Wait, can you do that again?

Speaker 1 That's very ASMR. All you sound people, get out your equipment.
Yeah, no, they're going to do what they're going to do. They're going to do it.
Yeah, they're going to do that.

Speaker 1 Open up that whole thing. Open up the pods.
Yes. Is that the right terminology? not really okay open up the pods let's open up the pods

Speaker 1 you always think you always think whenever you go into like a studio or something that there's gonna be knobs like this everywhere yeah nowadays very few knobs

Speaker 1 very few

Speaker 1 i like the knobs too like turn that up yeah yeah exactly you know what and i'm doing this too as if there's like one one ear the glamour of recording doesn't exist one

Speaker 1 one one pod this is hanging off your ear the other side and you sort of slide the knob and go yeah that's it

Speaker 1 Turn the gains up. I don't know what a single one of your words are actually.

Speaker 1 You sounded so professional. Thank you.
I have some experience. I'm near some knobs now.
This is very antiquated. You need to email somebody.
You face the screen by here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's not where you should be facing.

Speaker 1 That having been said, what if I touch this? Oh,

Speaker 1 would it do nothing if you touched that? Would it do nothing? It would do something. Okay.

Speaker 1 Don't do it. Okay, nuts.
Or don't you produce this podcast? Do you want us to go down in flames?

Speaker 1 It's the only good good thing we have. I saw this podcast.
Talk about the joy of producing this. Well, can I say something?

Speaker 1 Because I don't think Pete Will knows how much involved he is producing this recipe. He was under the table here working wires this morning.
Is that what he is?

Speaker 1 I got in here at, oh, what was, I was a little bit late. So I got in here at 6.30.
I'm usually here at 5.30. Yeah.
And I was, yeah, I was making sure the board was hooked up. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 I got the Sony

Speaker 1 frame. full frame.

Speaker 1 I lined these up and I made sure the copy machine was working.

Speaker 1 Did you get this really cold coffee for every reason?

Speaker 1 You're still getting

Speaker 1 Harvard, you're not a fan of cold coffees. You want it hot.
I wanted a hot coffee, but it wasn't going to happen.

Speaker 1 It can't always happen. Because the thing about hot coffee is it can become cold, whereas cold coffee, well, it can become warm, but it can't ever become hot.

Speaker 1 It should have been cold. Yeah, of course.
Of course not. Yeah, well, you know, if you don't expect anything, you're not ever disappointed.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 My eyes blaze over and I don't speak for the rest of the episode. Well, unless you just get down,

Speaker 1 pull out a paperback novel. Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 I think that one of my favorite parts of the doc was seeing you guys all interact with, you know, Tina and Seth and Colin and everyone together. And I wonder, like.

Speaker 1 What is that like to go into the room with all those people? And of course, there's going to be the bits, but there is this very real thing of this transformation and this change.

Speaker 1 What were those emotions that were going through your mind? Well,

Speaker 1 very family-like because, and I know, Bowen, you're there now. You probably hate everyone there.
No.

Speaker 1 Of course you do.

Speaker 1 He'll never say the truth, but I will.

Speaker 1 I guarantee you in 10 years, that's your high school. You will love those people so much.
So when I came out, the email got out to these various people that I worked with at Saturday Night Live.

Speaker 1 They were so supportive, so sweet. So walking into that room was just really sweet.
And yeah, it felt like a family. I mean, I just was so happy to see every one of them, except for Colin Joe's.

Speaker 1 Except for Colin.

Speaker 1 And Tim, who died. No one wants to see Tim.

Speaker 1 No one wants to see Colin. No one wants to see Tim.
I'm tired of Colin Joe. Dim actually respond thinking it was a bit or was that a bit?

Speaker 1 He didn't respond that aggressively that it was a bit.

Speaker 1 I think, yeah,

Speaker 1 he got the news from an old friend of ours, Marcy Klein, and I think it came to Tim. And there's a way to tell someone that they've transitioned, and then there's a way maybe not to.

Speaker 1 But I hope you don't feel that your way was not the right way because it was completely personal and in general. Oh, yeah, yeah, no.
And I, and I, no, I mean, it was, again, everyone,

Speaker 1 which to me is the laughable thing. We have a friend who came out on the Ellen show,

Speaker 1 but they were working at Ellen for like 10 years before they had the courage to come out to this gay. Oh, right.
And you're like, how is that possible?

Speaker 1 And I have that feeling, like, why was I so afraid in the world of entertainment? It's ridiculous. I feel like that's sort of outside of it.

Speaker 1 But one thing that I, that doesn't really come up in the documentary, but that I was thinking about is I was thinking back to that time.

Speaker 1 And even when we were really coming up in comedy, like it's funny. The other day there was a piece on Bowen, and we talk about the sketch that we wrote many years ago.

Speaker 1 It was that first sketch that Bowen ever performed in our family. Oh, yeah, I wrote it.

Speaker 1 It was called, it was about Joan from Mad Man. And I wrote it, and we were talking about it.
And I was like kind of reminiscing.

Speaker 1 And then I went back to those sketches and I was like looking in 2013 at some of the sketches and I opened one up. Yeah.
And in the very first line, there's a transphobic joke. And we were queer.

Speaker 1 We felt very progressive. And I actually had to sit back in my chair and I was like, wow, it flew out in the first line.

Speaker 1 And then I really thought to myself about how prevalent, not only just casual racism, casual misogyny, but transphobia was. In the comedy world, especially.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And so when we talk about the entertainment world, you were in the comedy world. Of course, there was some.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I just wanted to ask, like, to speak to that, like, I'm certain that if we went back to SNL sketches from your tenure, that there were things. Oh, definitely.

Speaker 1 Things I would not write again at all. Right.
Of course. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And to know that you were.

Speaker 1 dealing with this in the midst of that. Was that a rub or did you find yourself participating in that type of comedy writing because that's just kind of what you did?

Speaker 1 I think I got so good at disassociating that it just was, and not paying attention to how anxious or how miserable I was, not paying attention to that side, just letting this thing keep going and just making sure that the train stayed on the track always.

Speaker 1 Doing the job. Just constantly, just, and I love the job and I love the people.
So it's like one of these kind of impossible things to explain.

Speaker 1 You're just living this experience that seems in every way beautiful and it was in a lot of ways. And then there's just this other side that's falling apart.

Speaker 1 Do you think, I would say, do you think that disassociation led to, I mean, you're a funny person, but do you think comedy was a way to not? Oh, without a doubt.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, especially when I was a kid. Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I became a class clown for a reason. You know, I had to distract.
You flourish, but also hide. Yeah, of course, of course, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, I think a lot of comedians, it's not about being trans or being queer or anything. There's a lot of things people are hiding in a comedy room.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I think I, you know, it's just a very disassociative kind of world, really. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's a moment in the doc that's really beautiful where it's you two with Forte on a hot air balloon. Yeah.
I love that man. I love that man.
What a beautiful man. To get to that shoot,

Speaker 1 Bill Forte went through 30 different

Speaker 1 scenes and

Speaker 1 probably another hot air balloon.

Speaker 1 He interrupted like a ski vacation or something to meet us on, because we knew we were hitting Albuquerque at a certain date and

Speaker 1 like most people like I'm busy I can't no no got out of the

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 there's a thing that Harper says where she where you say you know sometimes I wish I had come out sooner but if I had then I might not have met you guys and I might not have had a comedy job and I wanted to ask about this um what you feel about this like temporal aspect to to being a trans person you've always been a trans person but then but then the moment of coming out or of transition which are also two separate things that are chronologically on different loci, let's say.

Speaker 1 How do we like reconcile those things though? Like, you've always been this person. Yeah.
And yet the moment of coming out is incredibly consequential.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I try to kind of reconcile it with the sort of transness of my whole life. Yeah.
So like a lot of the transness seep through in so many great ways. And that's just that.

Speaker 1 thing inside me fighting me the whole time and finally winning. And that's a really joyous thing to think about.
Like I fought it so hard for so long.

Speaker 1 Or when I say I, this is all complicated. But yes, I tried to keep this thing down and it just kept fighting back.
So

Speaker 1 yes,

Speaker 1 on the other side of it, it's like to come out in 1979, I mean, which I wish I could have done. I wish I could have come out in 1979.
I'm not, I would have been as beautiful as Hunter Schaefer.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 oh my God. But if I could have come out then, that would have been wonderful.
I just don't know if the world would have been the same.

Speaker 1 And to get to Lauren Michaels wouldn't have hired a trans woman in

Speaker 1 1996. I mean, I'm sure Lauren.
Oh, no, of course I would have. No, he's not doing that.
I mean, I could have had a wonderful life. I don't know what that life is.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying it was going to be misery or anything. But yeah, I just, I also value all the friends and people I made sort of just being half myself.

Speaker 1 All that aside, though, like it is, I think, pretty incredible that SNL has already had a trans head writer. Oh, I love it.

Speaker 1 I love it. I'm looking at the cast and the crew and the writers now, and it's just like, yes, thank you.
But I'm talking about you.

Speaker 1 Like, anytime you ask me, like, oh, what's it like with this, you know,

Speaker 1 your sensibility that's broken in? I'm like, well, I don't think it's broken. I think it's always been there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, second female head writer. I mean, Tina did.

Speaker 1 Goddamn Trailblazer. No, you Tina.
Girl boss. I don't care about that.
You didn't need to lean in that much. No, no way.
When is it enough?

Speaker 1 When is it enough? Tina,

Speaker 1 gorgeous talent. Did you not see that I was a woman?

Speaker 1 You should have seen that.

Speaker 1 This is Tina's fault. Yeah.
Tina repressed me to get ahead.

Speaker 1 That's a full quote. Oh, honestly, yeah.
People magazine's coming for you.

Speaker 1 One thing that, like, really blew me away is, and it always blows me away, is when someone has a passion for solo road trips through the middle of the country.

Speaker 1 And one thing that, this is part of the ride that I was on in watching the documentary, was

Speaker 1 how I was checking in with my body. Like, when you guys go into those bars, those hole-in-the-wall bars,

Speaker 1 I had like a response to it. And one thing that I think was my pull from this was not only how beautiful your story was and how beautiful your friendship is, but how afraid I really am of those spaces

Speaker 1 and how

Speaker 1 I feel like whether it's I've been conditioned or I've learned and need to unlearn, but I myself have a phobia of a type of person I think that is learned because whether it's a trauma response or something

Speaker 1 me being defensive, like, and I know that I can code switch in those spaces if I really wanted to. In fact, I did it many years to survive in my own right.
Code switching today with your shirt.

Speaker 1 Correct. Like this, I didn't, but, but like, I think the reason I even own this shirt is because I had it a long time ago.
But

Speaker 1 just the

Speaker 1 ability

Speaker 1 to go into those spaces is now one that you have to think about in a different way. And I think, were you actively nervous those whole times?

Speaker 1 Did you feel protected by the cameras and by Will's presence? And so was that, yeah, I mean, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't as nervous.
I mean, that bar going in by myself was a weird experience.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm looking around at people I grew up with. I knew that world a little bit.
That felt weird, but I also had a camera crew and my buddy Will was outside. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I knew he was going to come in. So whenever I was driving with Will, I didn't have a sort of typical trans experience, honestly.
But no, I've been back and forth twice now. And I still.

Speaker 1 Like you, I'm not sure I'm going to go back into that kind of bar at night.

Speaker 1 I will go into truck stops in the places that I love and I have and I feel way more confident, but no, I mean, and code switching is such a funny thing. There's this thing in this documentary.

Speaker 1 It just bothers me. Every time I see it, we're in that Oklahoma bar and I'm talking to people and I go, y'all.
And

Speaker 1 it's fear-based, you know, and it's not, it's not a bad thing to be fearful. It's safety, right? And I grew up in Iowa and I know what y'all means and I've said it.

Speaker 1 And, but every time I see it now, I'm like, aren't you proud to be out Harper Steele? Why you don't need to say y'all? Well, I still do a little bit. Oh, what do you mean?

Speaker 1 What's scary about y'all?

Speaker 1 Is it just a screen? I'm just trying to connect with these people in a way. I am code switching.
I'm trying to connect with them and like, don't hurt me, basically.

Speaker 1 Totally.

Speaker 1 But I think there's, I don't know where, how this nests together, but I feel like there's code switching and then there's also like, I would consider the y'all a signal just and like a pretty new signal.

Speaker 1 You know what? I take that back. You're right.
Code switching has become a kind of a dirty word. And it's actually just just a way to communicate sometimes with people.

Speaker 1 And I'm hard on myself, but Bowen, you do a great bro.

Speaker 1 What do you mean? I've seen, I've heard your bro. Oh.
You do a really good bro. He's a very powerful masculine.

Speaker 1 So I've heard your buddy like Beneh.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So

Speaker 1 believe me, you can code switch.

Speaker 1 Wow. Interesting.
I mean, you haven't seen this guy do his bro. No, really.
But look at him. I mean, whatever.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 dude. I don't like the tension anymore.

Speaker 1 This is the thing. This is the thing about like

Speaker 1 when straight guys can like you know wink at each other and be a little bit whatever. Yeah, I'll say this.
I went to a straight wedding recently. I went to a straight wedding recently.

Speaker 1 But I don't know. God, I'm just thinking.
Hey, yo, see, you get away with it. But it's just anything either way.
I would never do. Anyway.
But here's the thing.

Speaker 1 I went to a straight wedding recently, and the straight men who are so comfortable with themselves are touching all over me. They are all over me.

Speaker 1 I think that they wanted it more than any gay man ever has because gay men are so aloof.

Speaker 1 And they're so like, like everyone wants to be like the one.

Speaker 1 Whereas these straight guys are like, whether they're going to go there because it's something intrinsic that they don't know about or like whatever, I feel vibes with them.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I know vibes.

Speaker 1 I know vibes. If I know anything, I think it's because of the code switching.
Oh, okay. I know what it means to be repressed, repressed, repressed.

Speaker 1 And then when something feels open, like it's like a certain openness. Yeah.
They're interested. Like, I don't know what it is.
And it's the married guys. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I'm just saying there's, there's like... No, but this is a person who's very comfortable in his skin.

Speaker 1 And I envied, I always envied that in people, you know. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 That was so nice. That was a lovely compliment.
Did you write Mark Spitz? I did not write the Mark Spitz. Okay, but that was a lovely moment in the dock.

Speaker 1 But also, Sudi was telling me last night, was Robert Goulet that was your last season? Was that all in the last season? No, I did it in a few seasons, probably.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay, but it was like, it was afterwards.

Speaker 1 I feel like, Harper, your tenure on the show is pretty expansive. Like, you were obviously there when Will was there, but then I was there.

Speaker 1 Amy, and all these really wonderful, great

Speaker 1 not to mention really fostered so many voices at Funnier Die.

Speaker 1 Harper was like the go-to office creative director yeah yeah and you'd stop by her office to get an idea or get a note and she would she was like i mean i'm kind of a genius not not

Speaker 1 kind of

Speaker 1 genius you see that you threw it away but it's true oops i crapped my pants when you came out in that shirt i flashed all the way back that was one of the like i you i think i downloaded like that sketch on kaza i was gonna say kaza like napster but not you weren't gonna go to prison for it albert Einstein didn't speak until he was six years old.

Speaker 1 When did you first speak? No. I spoke as soon as I came in.
Oh.

Speaker 1 You're like, hey, how are you?

Speaker 1 You're not so much of a joking. They stuck with my sexuality, and then they did.
And then they did. Is there a unicycle nearby? Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 So that unicycle,

Speaker 1 that was completely random. That was

Speaker 1 nothing. You know, composed versus this documentary.
And that was very strange.

Speaker 1 And the therapist at the grand canyon who was like

Speaker 1 trying to make amends for

Speaker 1 yeah so for those who haven't seen it yet because it hasn't come out yet there are a couple moments in here where you're talking about how you would unicycle around your neighborhood yeah at your child in front of your childhood home yeah and then a unicyclist just yeah rides on by

Speaker 1 it was the universe and you get on the unicycle and in nailed it

Speaker 1 i was gonna say that was which bad form i'm gonna say for all unicyclists out there for the unicyclist press that's going to do like the review of the

Speaker 1 people mad and

Speaker 1 they're going to rip the way to shreds. The way you went up that hill, too, you had to maneuver some terrain.

Speaker 1 The core strength. Yeah,

Speaker 1 it was impressive. That's gotten every screening that's gotten an applause break.

Speaker 1 Deserved

Speaker 1 when she gets on the AK. It's the don't rain on my parade

Speaker 1 of the year.

Speaker 1 And there's always one every year. There's always to be one.

Speaker 1 Let's start. 1910.
1910.

Speaker 1 You know what? I mean, I think there is some buzz starting about. I mean, obviously, the Unicycle parade? The unicycle parade.
That's starting up a unicycle.

Speaker 1 I think Harvard.

Speaker 1 Please don't make me go on the unicycle parade.

Speaker 1 I think Bowen is hinting at Buzz for the Doc. Buzz for the Doc, but also a Buzz for.
And this is a little bit of a spoiler. Start it, though.
Kristen has a song. Oh, yeah.
Kristen Wigg writes.

Speaker 1 So the running bit of like the Chekhov's gun at the beginning of like, write us a song and then you almost think it's not gonna happen and then it happens and when it happens it is like the final release for me emotionally I just suck it wonderful she's just like and that was a surprise to us we didn't know that it was happening we did the bit we just called her and actually

Speaker 1 hadn't heard anything we just thought it's I would I would check in with Josh well did she write anything and the direct secret yeah

Speaker 1 so Josh Josh brings us in he's like Josh is like why don't you guys come back I made a few more little edits. I'd like you guys to just watch the movie one more time.
I'm like, okay, sure.

Speaker 1 We come in. And then

Speaker 1 he revealed at the end. Wow.
And Josh did Barb and Starr. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 So he knew Kristen and was able to go and cajole her

Speaker 1 into writing a song. But oh my God, I love her to death.

Speaker 1 She's so brilliant. And also the song is not only beautiful, but also funny.
And the jazz, I mean, I won't ruin it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, it goes goes places musically. Yeah, we gave her some interesting notes.
Yes, yes, yes, that's part of the bit. And yet,

Speaker 1 she kind of makes, yeah. Except, did she pull off the country?

Speaker 1 Nope.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 1 I think it was in there, Kristen. Yeah.
I think it lived in there a little bit. Let me take it back.

Speaker 1 What drivel. What terrible, terrible songwriting.
Awful. Awful.
I think we should ask Harper the question. Okay,

Speaker 1 we're going to ask you the question we ask all of our guests, which is, Harper Steele, what was the culture that made you say culture was for me?

Speaker 1 I hope this is a good answer because I really don't know what you guys mean by the word culture. That's actually by design of

Speaker 1 interesting.

Speaker 1 But I'm going to tell you. So Rocky Aura Pictures Show.
Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 It wasn't the movie. I was in Chicago.
I saw it with friends. Afterwards, it was at the Biograph Theater.
Afterwards, we went to a diner. I'm sitting with my Broy friends and in comes four queens.

Speaker 1 And they're over here and I'm over here. I'm watching this group over here.
And if I could have split my body in half at that point,

Speaker 1 I would have gone over to that table. But something kept me over on this side.
And it was, it was intense. I could feel it like, oh, there it is over there.
You can reach it. Nope, can't have it.

Speaker 1 So this was after you had seen it? So I was like, I was 1981, maybe.

Speaker 1 I was 20 years old yeah yeah and so you just to be clear you went i went to see rocker pictures show the whole night was magical people up on stage doing frankenford or whatever yeah but it was really just being in that neighborhood sort of chicagoy neighborhood i can't remember what it is but um lincoln park

Speaker 1 gosh thank you sears tower

Speaker 1 you have i'm so happy the fairgrounds

Speaker 1 south side i'm so happy that

Speaker 1 this is my hype man

Speaker 1 we need this

Speaker 1 Waiter mark. But anyway, yeah, it was in this neighborhood, and they're obviously queer people when you saw the movie, and then I'm sitting there looking.

Speaker 1 And I don't know what their gender was or anything. Just was just like, oh, this is fun over there.
Were there remarks from the bros at the table? No. Were you the only person?

Speaker 1 No, no, no one was really. In fact, there was another person who came out later at the table.
Wow. I was just going to say, are you in touch with any of those brothers?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, of course. Some of those brothers you know.
Um, oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So,

Speaker 1 I was hanging out with Lauren Michaels, and we were just like, hey, the cubs are playing on my

Speaker 1 I've got an idea for the show.

Speaker 1 But you're not Friday Night Live, yeah. I'm thinking of going back.
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of going back. Well, you should.
It's going to be, I told him, I said, go back.

Speaker 1 You have to go back, Lauren. I think it's going to work.
It needs you. Yeah.
But anyway, that was my culture moment. I don't know if that's

Speaker 1 an incredible answer. It's a perfect answer.

Speaker 1 In fact, I actually feel a little seen by the answer because when we were 18, one of the welcome week activities that I did, I don't know if you remember this, but they had the Rocky Horror Picture Show at NYU and they were showing the movie and it was interactive.

Speaker 1 And it was one of those things I had never, I didn't, I think I was aware of what Rocky Horror was. I think I just thought it was a movie with Susan Sarandon.
Right. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 As I want to think.

Speaker 1 But then in seeing what it was and seeing that it was a place for people to truly let their, I guess, freak flag fly

Speaker 1 and access this part of yourself that was like the animal.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, what's funny is a couple months later, Lady Gaga would sort of take over New York and the little monster thing would happen.

Speaker 1 And it almost felt like something was speaking to me on high to like see these things and feel these things. And I remember.

Speaker 1 They had a moment in the thing where they stopped it and they said, we're going to come out into the audience and we're going to pick people out of the crowd and you're going to come up and everyone's going to do a fake orgasm.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. For some reason, I wouldn't have been able to do it at all.
No way. I don't know why, but I raised my hand.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 and I went up there and I did a terrible

Speaker 1 fake orgasm. Like horrible.
And I got booed.

Speaker 1 One at a time.

Speaker 1 We went down the line. By the way, do you still get lying everyone?

Speaker 1 They lined us all up, and there were these people on like fishnets and corsets and like every

Speaker 1 orgasm.

Speaker 1 And like they got to me and I did this horrible thing. I think I was wearing American Eagle.
You know what I mean? Like it was like horrible.

Speaker 1 I was in my like Long Island drag very much like this and I did a terrible one and they booed me, and I went to sit in my seat, and I was like, wow, I am so far away from being the person I want to be.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah,

Speaker 1 because you have so many checkpoints. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 It wasn't going to happen. It just wasn't going to happen.
I could just, yeah. I've never seen Rocky Horror.
Will Farrell. Can I tell you something?

Speaker 1 If Will. I haven't either.
Oh, okay. Oh, okay.
Because I was about to say when Will sees it, he will come out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Probably. Yeah.
What are you doing? There's like a 70% chance.

Speaker 1 It will freeze. It's pretty high.
Well, those are good numbers. Wow, wait.
I can't believe you've never seen it either.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's sweet. But I remember

Speaker 1 necessary, really. It was at a certain point.
It is.

Speaker 1 I'm loving that.

Speaker 1 That's the same story, right?

Speaker 1 It's really, it came at a time when I was like, you want to know what it was? The way you felt compelled to go over there. I was compelled to get up on the stage.
And I didn't sort of out of the body.

Speaker 1 It was like a tractor beam. It was like, I'm raising my hands.
And I went up there and had a bad experience. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it ended up being memorable yeah and it ended up being really formative because i remember looking around and seeing people who didn't seem to care about anyone thinking about them and looking oh they look gay or they look weird or they look dark or they look fucked or they look ugly yeah or they look really fucking hot yeah you know what it was just everyone being all those things all at once and the screaming and the lack of decorum being a sign yeah yeah there was something about it that made me and i I think a few years later, we would discover like, you know, it's weird now because it's such a mainstream part of culture, but RuPaul's drag race at the time and when it started was like, whoa, drag.

Speaker 1 RuPaul saying, you're all born naked and the rest is drag. You don't have to be in these boxes.
That was like a revolution at the time for people coming out as trans on the show. Yes.

Speaker 1 I'm not giving a vocabulary to people. Yeah, over time, yeah.
But it's interesting you say that.

Speaker 1 But I feel like, see, you're still holding on to some of those. There's still some residue from that time, like the Mets shirt, let's say, right? And like the American Eagle sort of like aesthetic.

Speaker 1 And I feel like what I also really enjoyed about the documentary and Harper's story is that like there's this identity with the road tripping and like knowing where all the record, the best record stores are and drinking shitty beer.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm not going to lose that. I mean, that's, I consider that Harper.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
And yeah, and like knowing like, I think Seth makes a joke of like

Speaker 1 the list of the best dumpster, like dumpsters for use for the music. No one wants my list of places to go in the country.
I think

Speaker 1 it's dumpsters filled with unused furniture. Unused furniture.
I love that. Oh, it's my favorite line.
Yeah, I love that line. I mean,

Speaker 1 I feel like there's this really beautiful connection to like... beautiful ruined or something.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no.
I mean, yeah,

Speaker 1 there's the bad side where I felt like a monster. And then there's the good side where I see beauty and monsters.
So they're just sort of back and forth fighting each other, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Have you developed like a queer community? Do you feel like, you know, there's queer people that are

Speaker 1 slow developing?

Speaker 1 It's slow developing. I have some trans friends.
It's slow developing. It's one of those things that I just am looking for.
The queer community, that's the community I was most afraid of for this doc.

Speaker 1 I don't, there's so many, the trans community can get a little snipy too. And I was really afraid.
And then I did some screening just for queer audiences. And it was, it was incredible.

Speaker 1 I mean, you said it was super emotional. Oh, no, I'm crying.
I'm on the cover of The Advocate. This is like huge.

Speaker 1 Like, I just, it's like, not to mention, if I can toot her horn, she's, she was at, in a Toronto Film Festival, was on a panel of queer trans filmmakers, and

Speaker 1 it was just, yeah, you were like the star of the

Speaker 1 people. They're amazing.
Amazing people. You were so hilarious and Harper.
Well, that I am.

Speaker 1 And then a big group came to our screening that night, and Harper was holding court with all these young trans and queer folks.

Speaker 1 It feels really good. Yeah, I mean, but it's a slow process for me because I've been so resistant.
So, yeah, you know, I feel like you are. So, invite me to your next party.
Of course, you're invited.

Speaker 1 I'm coming. Both of you.
I feel like

Speaker 1 Will. Yeah.
I don't have to. I mean, I'd love to.
I mean,

Speaker 1 I feel super uncomfortable around you. I make a great stew.
I make a great stew. Here you go for tops.
You guys should do a stew party and watch Rocky Horror for the first time.

Speaker 1 We'll do something else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, we have to break the feel on Rocky Horror.

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Speaker 1 You're talking about this fight, you know, between your body and your mind your whole life. And then I think you were telling your kids before you set off on the trip

Speaker 1 that this was a way for you to come out more. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 there's an altruistic reason. There was about trans legislation being passed across the country that's been very violent and very,

Speaker 1 you guys know the political landscape out there for trans people and for queer people in general. But so that was a reason to do it in terms of like, oh, this will have maybe some use.

Speaker 1 But also, Will and I like to make weird things. We do a lot of weird projects.
And we've all been weird. And we were here to promote Eurovision.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So when Will sort of like said Lifetime movie yeah yeah spanish yeah yeah love that though in the walkie camp yeah so so it's like according to like the the opportunity to do this sort of strange thing also was i jumped at it and then yes of course anything that's helped me because you come out uh you know and i don't know if this is true of all trans my experience is i came out and every day is just more confidence so it's like there's a learn there's a thing that just you just kind of keep moving forward and i just thought oh well this is gonna really just make me just i'm done you know and that's, and it did.

Speaker 1 It was a really wonderful experience. And I did go back across the country again and both ways.
And yeah, it was just easier.

Speaker 1 What I love about working on stuff with Harper is that we don't necessarily know that it's going to work or connect

Speaker 1 with a big part of the audience, but we know it will definitely connect. with a specific part of the audience.
Yeah. Because it's genuine.
It's genuine. And we'll always feel proud of it.
Yeah. And

Speaker 1 even though that's sometimes hard to, in Hollywood, to push that through the committee, but if you give us a couple swings, we'll make something original.

Speaker 1 I think what you're getting at is this thing that I was saying earlier, which is like, you don't have to understand something or someone in order to

Speaker 1 just appreciate it. And I feel like that is kind of the beautiful thing about this documentary is that like you, Will, you are being such a, such a wonderful.
And I think this is a perfect example.

Speaker 1 Sudie was talking about this last night.

Speaker 1 Like you set this perfect example of someone is really opening up to you and peeling back the layers and you are just there to listen and say and not and not be like, no, you're, you're amazing.

Speaker 1 Why would you feel this way? You're just there to nod and listen and walk alongside someone. I think that is such a good model that isn't really common

Speaker 1 in terms of friendship. But I feel like

Speaker 1 Even with Harper going into these bars and these spaces that are maybe potentially hostile, like there are people who like upon meeting a trans person kind of like put their shields down and then there's connection that happens.

Speaker 1 And that is this thing that like you don't have to understand everything a trans person goes through in order to see them as a as a human being. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Another thing too, in addition to all of that, it's just like the allyship. And, you know, it feels like we say it so much that it sort of loses its meaning.

Speaker 1 It's sort of like when you say like representation matters, like it feels like a like a

Speaker 1 press thing now or something, but it really is important.

Speaker 1 Like the allyship, and like if there, if there needs to be a new way to say it for it to have impact in a different way, it's just like the whole time I was thinking, like, this allyship is giving comfort.

Speaker 1 And when there is comfort, there is the opportunity for dialogue.

Speaker 1 And that's why it's important that there are allies, because like we need to be able to communicate about these things, because it's only when we communicate that, like, I don't know, maybe someone watching who sees you walk into that bar, shoulders aren't going to be up here.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Because I did drop my shoulders there when you started to see the dialogue, that that young man and his girlfriend coming over to you.

Speaker 1 And, you know, even after he misgenders you, there is the dialogue. There is not the thing of there was a misgendering and then the conversation is over.
And he was receptive to the correction.

Speaker 1 Right, receptive to the correction. Not defensive.
Not defensive. And also, then there was an opportunity to share.
and to learn and to feel good about it. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I also think as comedians sometimes, and probably I think this is something we can all identify with, but we're scared of vulnerability. Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah. Because then that would mean, because you want to know what? The boys are not vulnerable.

Speaker 1 They have always thought of it as, and you talk about this, like, I want to get to the point where I can see my vulnerabilities as a strength.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that is something I think is really important to, as comedians, like call out. It's like, we're scared of vulnerability.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, just I can say from listening to our fans, like, they respond to that. They learn from that.
And we're learning from that.

Speaker 1 And the thing I've gotten out of this is the learning that vulnerability is a superpower.

Speaker 1 It's like to be vulnerable isn't amazing because I'm just getting into so much deeper conversations with people around me because they see vulnerability and I express it.

Speaker 1 I don't, I have no problem with it. So that's been a, that's been just a crazy

Speaker 1 result of all of this.

Speaker 1 That's the thing, I think, is it's just, it's, it was that era too, like that sort of late 90s, early aughts, through the aughts thing of like, whoever was saying how they really felt, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, it was no emotional comedy out there. Like, it was not like that.
It was, it was, then you learn, like, it becomes a core belief that if you're like crying, you're weak.

Speaker 1 But now there's this weird pushback

Speaker 1 to like

Speaker 1 this new form of masculinity. Like, it's, it's so crazy that.

Speaker 1 what do you mean no just i feel like politically speaking yeah oh yeah on the you know we're getting two kinds of comedy we are getting a kind of vulnerable comedy and then we are also getting the other side which there's room for all of it who cares but

Speaker 1 you know you can feel like people are like hey let's let's get away from vulnerability let's get away from you can feel that and you know i felt it in a texas steakhouse so you can feel it you know as a queer person i'm sure you guys have that spider sense um and i yeah and i can feel it with this kind of kind of comic i'm not against free speech or whatever people want to do with your comedy but yeah i i can feel that sort of backlash that's happening sure but i feel like also we had a whole like uh we were on fire island funnily enough uh in august and we had we ended up watching zoolander and stepbrother

Speaker 1 because tathern was here last week Okay. Katherine was here last week.
And so we watched those movies and we were just like, you know, this is the, these are perfect examples.

Speaker 1 And like everything you guys, you've done together is like, are these examples of a comedy that is a sensibility maybe of like around masculinity, but it is not like for a specific audience.

Speaker 1 It is general in that way. Oh, for sure.
And like, it can happen. It exists.
There doesn't have to be this like

Speaker 1 division among

Speaker 1 who it's for, who it's by. Right, right, right.
Whose idea was Eurovision? Oh, Will, for sure.

Speaker 1 Will's grown up in Sweden. So

Speaker 1 I went there. My wife and I went to Sweden in 1998.
Yeah. The first time.
And it just coincided with Eurovision being, and we were visiting her cousin way out in the country in this little cabin.

Speaker 1 And that evening, she's like, shall we watch Eurovision? The Eurovision song contest. And I said,

Speaker 1 of course. What?

Speaker 1 And I sat there for the next three hours. Yes.
Transfixed. It was the final.
I'm like, what is going on?

Speaker 1 what is this thing and this is spectacular and i i was like this would make an amazing movie and i'm sure someone will do it yeah at some point

Speaker 1 no one wanted no one would touch it for 20 years and finally i don't know there was just a gap in you told me to watch it and i also

Speaker 1 I really vibed to it. It was almost like the situation with what I was saying about Rocky Horror.
Yeah. It was almost like that.
I'm like, oh, oh, okay, yeah, that's over there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is amazing. And then we actually went to one just to kind of like do research.
We went to Copenhagen. We went to Copenhagen.

Speaker 1 And that year, I don't know if you're Eurovision fans, but it was, and I think that this person

Speaker 1 says he contributed

Speaker 1 to the Taverse one with the dress, the beautiful dress.

Speaker 1 And who with the mechanic, who's wonderful. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Daughter and

Speaker 1 she's in Eurovision.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, my God.
So, yeah, that was such a that just walking around Eurovision with all these queer people.

Speaker 1 It was the most amazing thing. Of course, that initially went way over my head.
I didn't even, I was like, oh, interesting performance.

Speaker 1 No, and I'm sure I was like, for you at that early part, I was like, it's so queer.

Speaker 1 But like, there has to be like some sort of spider sense that goes off in your head that Will is going to be a safe person when he brings you Eurovision as a thing. And it's like, it's my dream.

Speaker 1 So I'm not safe enough to come out. Because I really wanted to come.
I really wanted to transition seven, eight, nine years ago. Right.
And like, I don't know what stopped me then, you know?

Speaker 1 Was the pandemic a pusher in that direction? Because it feels like that was when people made bigger. A lot of people.
A lot of people.

Speaker 1 Because I didn't have to go into an office every day and face people. You know,

Speaker 1 that day wasn't going to be there where it's like, oh, I'm wearing a dress now. Right.

Speaker 1 That horrifying. That's when I decided to go gluten-free.
Yeah. Huge, huge distinction.
Because you realize life is too short. Isn't that the same kind of decision? No, no.

Speaker 1 We are talking about

Speaker 1 huge

Speaker 1 changing moments. It would have been good that you did that.
Okay. Well, do you want me to cry? We're going to cut that out.

Speaker 1 We're going to protect you from the joke you made.

Speaker 1 Gluten-free.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. We have such a long way to go.

Speaker 1 There is a documentary about his gluten-free trip. Yes.
Coming out. But it's on Roku.
Yeah. It's on Roku.
On on Roku September 28th. It's on Roku Plus.

Speaker 1 David, it's a Saturday release. It's not getting Roku, really, not getting the same press.

Speaker 1 Roku is a different pressure. I'm fighting with Roku right now.

Speaker 1 We don't know if we can show this. It's about your gluten-free journey.
You and Elizabeth Hasselback. And every time you've done, he's constantly trying to piggyback it.
And Netflix is like, stop.

Speaker 1 I keep bringing it up in the interviews.

Speaker 1 They're spending dollars on press for you. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 Okay, it may be time to head into the segment. I don't think so, honey.
It is. Okay, so this is...
Don't be yikesing. Because you're going to be doing it.

Speaker 1 You got to give one to Will, right? Oh, no, I've already done this. You do it again.
You're doing it again.

Speaker 1 We're going to do it again. So basically, what's about to happen is we're going to take 60 seconds each to tear something up in culture.
It's not that long.

Speaker 1 We do it. We dare.
I can't do it. This is our current guy.
I don't want to hear about you.

Speaker 1 I'm going to read off my phone. That's you guys.
That's beautiful, guys.

Speaker 1 Here we go. I have something.
Do you have something? Yes. This is Matt Rogers.
I don't think Sony's Time Starts Now. I don't think so, honey.
Natty Light, you crazy bitch.

Speaker 1 What are you talking about, Natty Light? Love yourself. You're on this journey.
Keep going. Let me tell you something.
This porn's light tastes like lemonade compared to this shit. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 I'm talking to you as a Long Island bitch, okay? I drank a lot of Natty Light by

Speaker 1 I had to.

Speaker 1 In fact, I would put natty light in a funnel, take three beers at once to the chest. I'm telling you, don't continue down this road.

Speaker 1 Bud Light, please, just cores light, anything, Heineken light, Amstelite, get some culture,

Speaker 1 get some culture and drink an amstelight, natty light. If you don't drink it and totally drink it within the first five seconds, it turns to devil's piss.

Speaker 1 This is bad. I will not stand.
You will not leave this room still being a natty light fan.

Speaker 1 So, nothing that goes from natural light to natty light is moving forward in the right direction. I don't think so, honey.
That's one minute.

Speaker 1 Holy shit. Holy.

Speaker 1 That's like a blast furnace. I couldn't believe my eyes earned more.

Speaker 1 Can you explain what you like so much about natty light? It's water. It's not beer.
It's not water.

Speaker 1 That's the appeal. Yeah.
Drink water then. I'm not trying trying to hydrate you.
Natty light is just a roasted head.

Speaker 1 And if you drink 12, you get drunk.

Speaker 1 She is starting to drink more wine. I know.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's true. I can't help it.

Speaker 1 Castrogen. What type of girl are you? Like, red? Red.
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 Looks a good red.

Speaker 1 Do we believe that it's genuinely good for you? Red wine?

Speaker 1 They say like a pregnant woman can drink a glass and a half and the baby will be no in France. They all drink red wine when they're pregnant.
They don't care. They don't care.

Speaker 1 And then those kids, all of them grow up. They're idiots.

Speaker 1 That was true.

Speaker 1 Have you been to France?

Speaker 1 I don't doubt that. You have, yeah.
You know, the thing about deteriorating the whole country. Yeah, of course.
The thing about Parisians being rude, it's true. Oh, yeah, it's true.
It's true.

Speaker 1 And it's because of the wine. Yeah.
But I also then say, like, it could be because we're like, I'm like, so American walking in there being like, y'all have ketchup? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then they're like, oh my God. It is odd.

Speaker 1 When we're in Sweden, you see the Americans

Speaker 1 a mile away. Now, the Swedes are so like

Speaker 1 super emotionless. I drank out of a carafe one time at a Parisian restaurant.
They had a carafe and a glass of rim to mouth. No,

Speaker 1 you took the carafe to the face. The waitress came over and just

Speaker 1 didn't say anything. She just grabbed that carafe out of my hand, took it away.

Speaker 1 I was in a grocery store once, and I wanted to buy some carrots. And I took two carrots out of the bundle of carrots

Speaker 1 and I brought them to the checkout. And she went,

Speaker 1 just threw it down on the ground. And I just started laughing.

Speaker 1 She wouldn't because I wrecked the bundle of carrots. You know what? You got to laugh.
Yeah. Sometimes the.

Speaker 1 Oh, you know what? You know what? This is a cry. No, I have my own thanks, though, honey.
This is thank you so much for this because you've been giving me fodder. Oh, okay.
Okay,

Speaker 1 no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 You mind giving fodder? I can't follow any of it. I'm all on the body.
Oh, my God. Fodder.
Fodder. Our father.
Our fodder. Hello, mother.

Speaker 1 Hello.

Speaker 1 That was beautiful.

Speaker 1 We had something happening. We did there.
There was a little, maybe a boy band.

Speaker 1 Are we

Speaker 1 turn up the pod? Can someone turn that up? My favorite Kamala meme. Can someone turn that up? By the way, my dad texted me today, 143.
He says, he knows the lingo. 143, the new album is.

Speaker 1 Katie Perry is Katy Perry's new album. Oh, okay.
And it's shorthand for I Love You, apparently. Like

Speaker 1 one letter, four letters. Four letters, three letters.
It's the old pager thing. Oh, one for three.
But now Katie Perry has sort of brought it back. Remember when I had my ham radio operation?

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 You had a ham radio operation? No, no, I'm like, oh.

Speaker 1 But Harper. It sounds like Harper.
Harper brought her CB radio. Yeah,

Speaker 1 it was all cut out of the dock because we could never get it. It didn't work.
There was a lot of the kind of room for because in the credits, you see all these other places. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You could only entire time. 250 hours of footage.
That's crazy to me. The editors deserve Nobel Peace Prize.

Speaker 1 That's almost all the hours in the days. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. So many hours.
So many hours.

Speaker 1 Okay. This is Boen Yang's.
I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. The current state of vegetables and produce at the grocery stores of America.

Speaker 1 Why did this person throw out the carrots? Sometimes I don't need seven fucking carrots. I'm making one stew, not seven stews.
The recipe calls for one carrot.

Speaker 1 Now I'm supposed to come up with other recipes that are carrot forward for the rest of my fucking week. Who do you think I am? I'm a single, childless, gay man.

Speaker 1 I'm cooking for one and i like it that way and i don't want why why is society constantly

Speaker 1 constantly pushing us towards partnership towards domesticity with other people that's a beautiful thing that's a beautiful ideal to aspire to why am i on planes it's the responsibility on me to change my seat with you because you want to sit next to your partner yes make it about more make it you know

Speaker 1 this is this is written small a larger thing about society that is illing us. Is that a verb?

Speaker 1 I'm all over the place with my words today, but listen, here's the deal. I don't want to buy one head of broccoli when I just need two small florets for my soup.
That's one minute. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Cut things off. Cut things off.

Speaker 1 I don't need all of that. Can I tell you with the whole thing of bananas? No.
Guess what's going wrong? Four of them. Four of them.

Speaker 1 And there are so many bananas that have benefited from if you take, if you they should have taken the banana apart, I'll buy two because we're throwing so much food away.

Speaker 1 Food waste. It's ridiculous.
And these carrots are going to waste and they go bad way quicker than you think.

Speaker 1 Cucumbers, forget about it. No, that's a stribble of it.
Zucchini? It's so pickled.

Speaker 1 No, but cucumbers can be so beautiful, Cabbage. Use them immediately.
Thank you. Cabbage, forget about it.
Rhubarb,

Speaker 1 keep going. Keep going.
Will can name like 30. Say her name.
Cilantro.

Speaker 1 Cilantro. Cilantro.
You will not believe what he can do. He can name.
Seriously, like. And wait five seconds in between each one.

Speaker 1 And wait. With only five seconds between each one.
This man can list a lot. List a lot of vegetables.
Wow. Incredible.
You know what's flashing in my head, though?

Speaker 1 You guys having your pedicure with Molly Shannon? Oh,

Speaker 1 I want to do a pedicure with Molly. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 If you're going to do a pedicure, do it with Molly Shannon. Yeah.
I love that. We've both worked with Molly.
I love the way she

Speaker 1 is the greatest listener of all time.

Speaker 1 Isn't that funny?

Speaker 1 That's so funny.

Speaker 1 Now, so when you, when you

Speaker 1 met someone, wait, wait, wait, Matt. Hold on.
Yeah. So your dad

Speaker 1 took you to the baseball game. Yes.
Isn't that funny?

Speaker 1 Left you in the parking lot? And I thought that was so funny of him to do. You know, I thought, you know, baseball, it's like you could be at the game.
You could be in the parking lot.

Speaker 1 It's just so funny how you can be in so many places at once. Isn't that funny? You're seeing Will and Harper today? Oh, they're so

Speaker 1 tell them I say hi. Tell them I said hello and tell them again.

Speaker 1 Tell them I said hello and tell them again. Molly Shannon is, who's afraid of Virginia Wolfe? She scares the hell out of me because I used to have coffee with her.

Speaker 1 And in my journals, I'm writing, I got, I think I need to be a woman. And I'd go have coffee with Molly and she'd be like, my father came out later in life.

Speaker 1 And she's looking straight at me with those eyes, like piercing. I was knowing.

Speaker 1 She's always presenting. Maybe or maybe not.
And it's scary. She's scary good.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's a perceptiveness there. Absolutely.
Yeah. She's, she's wild.
Will, I think you should go next.

Speaker 1 I think Harper should close this out. Oh, Jesus.
It's going to be so hard. I can't follow either one of you.
Of course you can't. Of course.

Speaker 1 You do it for a living.

Speaker 1 I know you can't do this. You earn a living doing this.
You guys do this eight times a week.

Speaker 1 Like a Broadway show.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. We have swings.
I only just realized how hard it is to do eight times a week thinking about doing this eight times a week. Now I really, now I really respect Broadway.
Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Hey, Patty Lapone.
Yep. Hats off, man.

Speaker 1 You are a talent. Hand me a Pharaoh.
Don't forget. Dear.

Speaker 1 I happen to be listening to the podcast. This is Patty.

Speaker 1 I so appreciate it. I want to shout out.

Speaker 1 Okay, here we go. Turn your phone off.

Speaker 1 But my phone is on in order to log the time. This is Will Farrell's.
I don't think so, honey. And your time starts now.

Speaker 1 I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 1 About here's the thing. Okay.
Tell us the thing. I don't, I don't think so, honey.
I don't, it's not my business. Okay, here's, here's a book.
You're on top of it. Here's a book.
Here's a book.

Speaker 1 This ties into the

Speaker 1 documentary. Here comes the tie-in.
Here's a book that my mom literally had a self-help book on her shelf. All right.
Called, It's None of My Business What You Think of Me. 30 seconds.

Speaker 1 We got there. And even as a little kid, that was my mantra.
If I walked in the room and I got dirty looks, none of my business. None of what you think of me.
None of my business.

Speaker 1 And as we went through America, 15 seconds, America, the heartland, the rhythm, the flag, the, it was none of Harper's business what you think of her. Five seconds.
She goes through this world

Speaker 1 loved and herself finally. And,

Speaker 1 oh, oh, oh, I got a good, I got to get

Speaker 1 it. Oh, oh, oh, oh.
I can start over.

Speaker 1 Slay down boots. Slay down boots.
Slay down boots.

Speaker 1 Slay down boots. Slay down boots.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Ultimately, slay down boots. Just strike that for the record.
We can't do that.

Speaker 1 You know we can't do that. You know we can't do that.
The point you're making is important.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 By the way, I didn't know there was a Kay Farrell. There was a K-Farrell.
The Kay Farrell connection to your openness. There really was.
Other human beings. There really was.

Speaker 1 She taught me to be a person. I mean, she's a beautiful person.
She is. She made you a beautiful person.
You know what? I think RuPaul says that, too.

Speaker 1 Other people's opinion of me is none of my business.

Speaker 1 And if you know yourself and like yourself to a certain degree,

Speaker 1 that's on the other person. And if you don't like that, that's on you to figure out what to do with me, but you don't have to be the one to carry it.

Speaker 1 You know what's interesting? And I'm okay with how bad that

Speaker 1 I don't think so, honey, was

Speaker 1 because I don't care what you think of me. There you go.
But you know what? That's the case. I don't care what you think of me.
How was the audio?

Speaker 1 It was great.

Speaker 1 The audio was a little spotty during the i feel like there's so many times but actually it's like what you said about touching the hot stove it's like reading comments about you online is like you wouldn't touch a hot stove every single time i go to the internet it's a hot stove to to gauge whether or not i'm doing well or people like me it always is worse than when i wake up in the morning and baseline feel pretty good yeah yeah yeah yeah it's right it's always gonna be a hot stove and don't and why would you touch it okay these people gotta go we gotta go

Speaker 1 all right so okay guys on my phone so i apologize.

Speaker 1 It sounds like.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't have said that. This is the.
No, they got it on camera. Authenticity is

Speaker 1 beautiful. That's what people connect with.
It's Chapel Rome.

Speaker 1 When I set up the cameras this morning, when I set up writers, I made sure they weren't on.

Speaker 1 Okay. They're just on a red light.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Sabotage from boss.
Give me a countdown. This.
Wait, wait, wait. Say that.
Oh, by the way, before we're done. I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 1 Before we're done today, I have to go through some HR stuff with you. Okay, no problem.
What do we do now? I just got to get your W-2s. Oh,

Speaker 1 is that HR? That's an HR.

Speaker 1 Accounting. Whatever.
I have to do it. You do it all.
There's cutbacks. You do it all.
There's cutbacks.

Speaker 1 And one of us getting cut? No, no, no, no. You guys are safe.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Can I say something? I know.

Speaker 1 Come on. This is fucking huge.

Speaker 1 Okay. Harper's ready.
All right. Okay.
Okay. Harper Steele.
This is your. I don't think so, honey.
Okay. Your time starts now.

Speaker 1 J.K. Rowling

Speaker 1 hateful attacks on Olympic boxer Iman Khalif. Yes.
demonstrates the very core of why some people hate trans women. Khalif is not trans.
No. She's a woman.
Yes.

Speaker 1 But because she does not conform to JK's limited and frankly racist ideas of what makes a woman, she repeatedly called her trans and referred to her as a man. 30 seconds.

Speaker 1 Halfway point.

Speaker 1 I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. And I don't, oh, I should have said, oh, and I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 1 Women can be beautiful in so many ways.

Speaker 1 JK is not one of those women because when you are hateful and bigoted in your heart, you are ugly. Yes.
I don't even think she's a honey. Oh!

Speaker 1 One minute. We don't even think you're a honey.
And you haven't been a honey for a very long time.

Speaker 1 She's

Speaker 1 disgusting. Although khalif was at the botte gavenetta show in paris for fashion week she looked amazing incredible wore a gorgeous suit what are you laughing at

Speaker 1 just the level of detail

Speaker 1 yes she wore a gorgeous suit that was so detailed it was a suit a suit is detailed no and then and

Speaker 1 have you seen all these things about like the mold in her house mold the black mold black mold no i i try to keep away from her twitter of course they're dangerous and and hurtful However, Khalif is suing her.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Every cent.

Speaker 1 And the libel laws in England are better. The libel laws in France are better.
I just hope she gets a fucking

Speaker 1 ton of money. JK is a dementer.
And you know who's also like on this fucking train? Not to bring other people into this, but Martina Naritalova is also being knocked into fucking stinker.

Speaker 1 Well, that's just turf, right? Yeah,

Speaker 1 she's told just being a stinker. She is the

Speaker 1 trans women in sports.

Speaker 1 International conversation. It's like, all right, everybody, just

Speaker 1 calm down. Calm down or just even keep it to yourself.
I don't know. It's just, it's just

Speaker 1 on a happier note than that, though. We will.
Well, we will. And I will say to end on a happy note, because I know you guys have to go.

Speaker 1 This is just really, we can work with you. So what did you do? Why did you tell us that? So what? If it was not going well, you could just put that on here.

Speaker 1 There was a little bit of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, guess what?

Speaker 1 You have to do your own pickups then. No, because we know you have to do pickups for your show.
And so now you have no excuse. No, no.
Fodder. No.
Fodder said.

Speaker 1 On a serious note, thank you so much for this. Oh, my gift.
Like, it really is. And

Speaker 1 I think that everyone is going to benefit from watching this and in a major way. And I'm sure you feel, both of you feel like you've benefited from doing it.
That's what art is all about.

Speaker 1 It's about the sharing and it's about the education and the,

Speaker 1 you know, you do it in such a light and beautiful way. And the heavy moments are, they really land.
And I just, I can't say enough about how inspired and how much I look up to you both. Thank you.

Speaker 1 It's so cool meeting both of you, really. It means a lot.
It's our honor. Heroic, both of you.
It's very, very, very lucky that you're here. Thank you for coming.

Speaker 1 And we end every episode with the same.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Can I get my parking validated? Yeah.
Oh, you did drive here. Yeah.
Do you guys do a little wrap-up at the end? It's like, those two were really good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we have a Howard Stern after show. Howard Stern hosted.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he does an amazing job. Oh, he's here.

Speaker 1 He does an amazing job.

Speaker 1 He's really good. He's a huge fan of the shit.
He's wearing a a Yankee shirt. Terrible man.

Speaker 1 Terrible dog. God, that's quick.
What's our song going to be to end it?

Speaker 1 Hartburn will go west.

Speaker 1 Prospect

Speaker 1 in Frank

Speaker 1 West. I saw it twice, and so I'm like, and I texted Christo, it's like, you're getting an Oscar nomination, and also.

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 1 This is the jazzy part. I'll be off on it by the time February or March rolls around.
Anyway, Bo, what is it?

Speaker 1 Yes!

Speaker 1 Lost Culture Racist is the production by Will Farrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Boen Yang.
Executive produced by Anna Hosnier and Hans Sani.

Speaker 1 Produced by Becca Ramos. Edited and mixed by Doug Babe and Monif Laborde.
And our music is by Henry Kabirski.

Speaker 1 Hey everybody, it's me, Matt Rogers, letting you know tickets are on sale now to see me on tour. The Prince of Christmas tour, that is.

Speaker 1 I'm doing my whole album, Have You Heard of Christmas, plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www.mattroogersofficial.com to see me in a city near you.

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Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.