“Gas Me Up, Lil Bro!” (w/ Joanna “JoJo” Levesque)

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Speaker 2 Look, man.

Speaker 2 Oh, I see. My eye.
Oh, my. Bowen, look over there.
Wow, is that the culture? Yes, goodness.

Speaker 2 Las culturistas.

Speaker 2 Ding-dong. Las cultoristas calling.

Speaker 2 What I chose to do with my hands. I was invited to raise my hands up like Evida in our new space.
I mean,

Speaker 2 very appropriate. We have a Broadway legend among us today.
Welcome. Welcome.
Oh, this is my. I went to the wrong one.

Speaker 2 Welcome finding our footing here in what is essentially a new space that really says we're in New York. We're next to the Port Authority.
Like it doesn't get more New York than this.

Speaker 2 It's giving Oliver and company. It's giving True New York.
Yeah. What do you say? I would say it's giving True New York.
I've been so happy to be here.

Speaker 2 In fact, I was telling Bowen off air, characters from the past, characters from the past of the podcast have sort of come back into play.

Speaker 2 And you better believe it took me two seconds to guess who it was, and I was correct. Yep.
Y'all, Big Bro is back. Last night I met up with Big Bro.
You met up with him?

Speaker 2 I thought he just like rolled into the chat or something. Big Bro came by.
Big Bro rolled through. No!

Speaker 2 And I got to tell you, there was a reason why he's a legendary man on this podcast. That man.
So basically, for those of you who are joining Lost Coach later in life, we went to...

Speaker 2 We were in Fire Island a few years ago, and then Matt. I was not there for it.
I got there a couple of days late. Matt.

Speaker 2 comes back home from a night out and tells the house of his escapade with someone named Big Bro and how they had something, they were doing stuff by the river. There's no river on Fire Island.

Speaker 2 It was one of those Fire Island nights. I was taken by a man who referred to me as Lil Bro.

Speaker 2 And so by transit of property, he had to be referred to as Big Bro. And that was the sort of, let's just say, dynamic when I was taken down by the river, which was really the bay.
Which is the bay.

Speaker 2 And had pretty incredible sex. And I have to say, years later, in the year of our Lord 2024, better.

Speaker 2 Wow. Even better.
Always, that's always what you want. Like sometimes it's not a given that it's an upward trajectory.
Sometimes you know it's a given. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's the worst when you have like what we're going to call like mythological sex with someone that becomes part of the canon in your life. You're like, wow, remember that?

Speaker 2 And then you revisit it later and it's flop.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's happened. It happens every day.
It happens every day. Especially Rilla Culture number 19.

Speaker 2 It happens every day. It happens every day.

Speaker 2 Now, I

Speaker 2 have so many questions. Like, how did the conversation sort of strike you? He texted.
He said, Are you in town? I said, I sure am. Saw you at the open.

Speaker 2 Saw you high-fiving Yannick Center at the open. We actually went to the one.
Yes, let's transition to that out of this, like, sort of.

Speaker 2 We had a great weekend. Friday the week.
We'll see our guests in Mulamer's the Musical, Run, Don't Walk at the Al Hirschfeld. And you know, I got us the best seats in the house.

Speaker 2 And this actually is a real, it's a real tip to everyone out there.

Speaker 2 If you ever can buy tickets to a Bradley Musical and the first row of the mezzanine is available, grab those seats because I like to see the whole production.

Speaker 2 Of course, I want to do, I want, and this production is a production. Oh, no.
The mezzanine is giving, you have the titular Mulan on one side on house left, and then you have the elephant,

Speaker 2 the titular elephant from the love medley on house right. Wow, I didn't realize so many titular things.

Speaker 2 It's a very titular show and some tits

Speaker 2 flying around, thankfully. Some beautiful Broadway bodies.
Let me tell you, if you want to see

Speaker 2 what we refer to as stacked people dancing about and i'm sorry to objectify our guests this way but

Speaker 2 gorgeous gorgeous stunning the sparkling diamond her body tea body tea voice tea acting tea acting tea oh my god we were so well we'll bring her into this later but we we fully insulted our guests in a way because we like went to her dressing room and we're like oh my god your acting was so good so grounded and then we left we're like no she's fully been in like storied storied actor aquamarine rv like are you kidding me what are we doing like oh my god your acting was incredible it's because well here's the thing when you are blessed to be one of the great singers of your generation yeah that's sort of gonna be the thing that like that's the headline the represent the representation first of all can we just say the representation and it matters but the reputation of our guest's singing voice let's just say it precedes her because first of all go back with me in time oh i know this is mortifying her but like this is just how it is i remember exactly where and when and this is what i'm going to say.

Speaker 2 I was in information processing class.

Speaker 2 I had an older friend, this girl that I, you ever have a class with someone and they become your friend in just that class because you have nothing else together? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I was in information processing, learning how to type on Homero.

Speaker 2 We all know Homero. Homero was one of the great girls.
S D F J, whatever. Yeah.
It's on the keyboard. So I'm learning how to type to get the maximum words per minute.

Speaker 2 And I'm next to my new friend, Jasmine. And she turns to me and she was like, do you know about Jojo? And I was like, no, but what's going on?

Speaker 2 She goes, This girl is the most unbelievable singer, she's 13. And I think we were 13.
We were 13. I think, well, you were 13.
I think I was 14. You're famously a little younger.
Yes,

Speaker 2 seethes for 45 minutes. Fast forward, finally, we resume.
Anyway, I'm like, Let me find out. That's when Leave Get Out entered the chat.

Speaker 2 Of course, I was on the top level of our cafeteria at Smokey Hill High School, and

Speaker 2 I saw a picture of her and then I listened to the song. Yep.
And I was like, holy fucking shit. I knew growing up, I was like, there's going to be a day when like, outside of like

Speaker 2 kids programming and like kids TV shows, like there's going to be someone our exact age who's going to pop the fuck off. Like I knew this innately as a kid.
And there she was. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like that was like the first person.

Speaker 2 And it got better because then I got the album and I was obsessed with every track. We have to talk about Breezy because it gets talked about in the book in a way that's so funny.
We must get into it.

Speaker 2 I can't even believe you're here. Baby, it's you.
We were just saying one of the great songs of all time.

Speaker 2 Forget about Too Little Too Late. I'll never forget

Speaker 2 what people think. People like sort of like singing it on the cross-country bus forget about it to go to meets and sort of street guys being like, Are you riffing?

Speaker 2 Maybe I'm like, Yeah, nah, nah, nah, I'm not riffing. And then you were like, I was like, Do you know how

Speaker 2 is this?

Speaker 2 Forget about disaster, the bridge of disaster, and forget it. And then everything since.

Speaker 2 I mean, we've just been so like enraptured by and impressed by the memoir this is over the influence by our guest and if you are a music fan especially if you are a millennial music fan you have to have to read this because it's important it fills in so many gaps it's it's a great exploration of what the music industry can be like is like just really really important stuff if you're a music lover a music fan and wants to learn more about like the industry and this amazing artist just about how it's made, about like what inspires musicians, like the way it's collaborative.

Speaker 2 Like this is all so grounded in like this beautiful realism that is also so soulful and devastating, but inspiring and uplifting. Like it's everything.
I have not had this feeling about a memoir.

Speaker 2 Say it. Well, hold on.
It was like, oh, I was like, this is like a friend reading, like talking to me and telling me about their life, but then not since meeting a Mariah Carey.

Speaker 2 I was going going to say the same thing. This calls to meeting a Mariah Carey.

Speaker 2 This references that very same feeling.

Speaker 2 And also in that way, where it's like a very unrelatable story because, like, who has these experiences besides this individual, but also incredibly relatable in terms of the anxieties, the fears, the self-doubts, the successes, the blaming of self that I think a lot of millennial people go through, especially when you're someone who holds yourself to a very high standard, as you should when you are talented, gifted, have have a certain way with what you do, when you're put on a certain pedestal.

Speaker 2 I mean, I just cannot say enough. And this is a great moment.
Yes. And she's currently the sparkling diamond in Moulin Rouge on Broadway.
And you got to get the book.

Speaker 2 Everyone, please welcome into your ears. Joe Delaney.

Speaker 1 God, I'm on Lost Coach.

Speaker 1 I cannot believe it.

Speaker 2 You fully are on Lost Coach, and it's our honor. It's our honor.

Speaker 1 You guys, I'm honored. Thank you so much.
That was so cool to hear you talking about the book because it's one thing to write it and now people are going to start reading it.

Speaker 1 And it's just like blowing my mind. So thank you so much for taking the time and saying those nice things about it.

Speaker 2 Truly incredible. And like all the way up until the last page, it was just so,

Speaker 2 so beautiful. And the way you even wrote about it, like I'm on Waikiki Island in New Zealand right now, typing this, sending it to my editor.

Speaker 2 And I was just like, there was just this like momentous, like it was on the precipice of something.

Speaker 2 I was was like she's about to like share her story and like you're someone that we've talked about on the podcast since the beginning many times truly like I said I've been a fan of yours since I heard you sing a note and you have that you do have that with like people like in our generation our age it's like this nostalgia and I wonder how that feels as someone who's still like so young it is weird and dope to hear you guys talk about like the first time you heard about me or heard my music because I remember the first time I heard Britney Spears.

Speaker 1 I was like backstage at the Huntington theater playing mustard seed in a midsummer night's dream.

Speaker 1 And I remember this cooler, older girl was like brought in this big boom box or something and played baby one more time. And I'm like, that is fire.
What is that?

Speaker 2 Who is that?

Speaker 1 And it's just crazy that people have those like moments with my music. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I know it's, it maybe is cliche to say that even 20 years into my career, that like it's crazy, but like, I don't know how else to describe it.

Speaker 1 It just is kind of weird that we're all the same age and we were growing up at the same time. And

Speaker 2 I don't know. And yes, people can be like, I grew up listening to your music.

Speaker 1 It definitely makes me feel old. And we're not young.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 we're not elder.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. It's just, it's weird.

Speaker 2 The fact is how long ago that was.

Speaker 2 Isn't that crazy that that's what the fact is?

Speaker 1 That is the fact.

Speaker 2 Does mid-30s start at 33 or 33?

Speaker 1 I don't identify as mid-30s yet.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.
How do you you identify? 33. You're like a month younger.
December baby. December, yeah.
December 20th. December 20th.
1990. That's right.
I'm okay with identifying as mid-30s.

Speaker 1 I'm okay with it. I just don't yet.

Speaker 2 I'm okay with it, but I still, it's giving

Speaker 2 early 30s. It's giving early 30s.

Speaker 2 It's always mortifying to think like a couple of years after you've turned a certain age and you said at the time, like, oh. God, I can't believe I'm this age.

Speaker 2 Like, I remember being 25 and saying, it's just such a weird age to turn, you know? I feel like I'm in the middle of something.

Speaker 2 And someone, like, truly in their mid to late 30s was like, you need to stop saying that. And I remember at the time being like, why? It's how I feel now.

Speaker 2 But to all 25-year-olds who are saying that, you need to stop saying that. Shut up.
Whatever you are.

Speaker 2 But the thing about you hearing this from people, though, like, I grew up on you, I grew up on you. Like, you're just going to keep hearing that as we all get older.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like, this is just like

Speaker 2 such a huge, important thread in your career and your story. It's like, and that's what you build on.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. It's amazing to have that.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Speaker 2 I mean, we saw you the other night in Woulon Rouge. And by the way, your performance is so great.

Speaker 1 You are the best audience members of all time.

Speaker 2 We tend to be the best.

Speaker 2 I'm going to give us that. Okay.
I'm going to give us.

Speaker 2 We're very engaged and we're very gay. So we are screaming.

Speaker 1 We heard, we felt, we loved it.

Speaker 2 We were clocking people like there's a scene that takes place on the Champs-Élysées, and everyone's in these fabulous

Speaker 1 gorgeous principles.

Speaker 2 Like, the deck design is so beautiful that beyond like the story and the music and the performances, like, there is just so much to be said about, like, the production design of this show. Sumptuous.

Speaker 2 Sumptuous. Sumptuous.
Thank you for that. Maximalist, sumptuous, all of it.
It's so fucking good. There was just a couple people.
And when I told, I think we told Jay this.

Speaker 2 Just people in the back, like, just,

Speaker 2 we can't even do this. It was just, my, thing.
They were air kisses from a long-distance air kiss. Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, to each other.

Speaker 2 So my favorite thing to do is, and you're a theater fan, so you, and like you mentioned it in the book, like one of the great things is that you can go back to this show and a lot of these maximalist productions and you can just watch one ensemble member the whole time to watch their choices and it's so fun.

Speaker 2 So we were dying. We were screaming silently to ourselves, respectfully in the theater.

Speaker 2 But whenever like these insanely like well-coifed women in that scene would walk up to each other, they would truly touch hands like this and they would just go

Speaker 2 and they would just and that's how they'd greet each other. And I was like, that is everything.
Like the opportunity to just be so dumb. So stupid.
Just like, I love it. I miss it.
I miss it.

Speaker 2 I want to be back in the ensemble. No, come on.

Speaker 2 So fun. It's a good vibe, the production.
It's a great vibe.

Speaker 1 And also, how hot is everybody in the show? The ensemble is unbelievable. The legs on the guys who lift me and stuff, if we could just for a moment.
Let's for a moment.

Speaker 2 We got to talk about that one. Unbelievable.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I feel as though you're talking about Alec, who has big, beautiful legs. He's so fit.
He looks like a, I don't know, like a

Speaker 2 Marvel. Like a Marvel guy.
It's like if Prince Eric was thick.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm going to say about. Alec.
If there were biscuits with those thighs.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, when I'm getting lifted all those times for a night, I am in good hands. Yeah.
I know they are in the gym just getting them reps in so they can lift my little self.

Speaker 2 It's great. The glute bridges were not missed.
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 But you, so one thing I was concerned about was when you do descend as the sparkling diamond, which you do a couple times, because then you come back as the iconic Kylie Mineau Green Fairy.

Speaker 1 Miss Kylie Mineau Green Fairy.

Speaker 2 Yes. And so I was like, now I hope she's okay with heights.
Because when you book the show, it's like, yeah, of course I'm going to be Satina Amazing.

Speaker 2 And then they say to you later, well, you're going to have to come down from 100 feet.

Speaker 2 Every show.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It was so scary the first few times.
But I actually saw this show

Speaker 1 like two years ago when it was the touring production of it. So it was at the Pantages in LA.
I saw it and I was like, oh my God, it's so romantic and sumptuous

Speaker 1 and just decadent. And it feels like you're inside a beating heart.
I was so into it. And I saw Satine come down from the ceiling and I was just like, oh.

Speaker 1 First of all, I'm like, I'll never have a budget like this for my own music. I was like, so I was like, imagine like getting to, you know, be in productions like this.

Speaker 1 I was like, I would just, that'd be such a dream that I just kind of put it out into the universe. And the universe conspired, and here I am playing sateen.

Speaker 1 And it was scary the first time coming down from the ceiling. I definitely took, are you familiar with propranolol?

Speaker 2 Oh, sure. I'm, I'm not.
Well, she'll calm you down. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's for like heart palpitations.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I get debilitatingly nervous. So I used to like do a just a cheeky, just a touch of a Xanax.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 just a tasteful, mindful amount.

Speaker 2 A mindful deer amount. Do your portion.

Speaker 1 So I don't like, but then I was like, oh, no, but what if I want to cry? It's not going to let me. You know what I mean? Right.
So propranalol for the first few shows kept me right. Love.

Speaker 2 Got me in check. And now I don't need it anymore.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Look me up there.

Speaker 1 Throw me down. I don't even need a harness.

Speaker 2 Well, you wrote this in the book. Like, I think it was your first show with Satine coming down.
And you were like, not even the wings, like the ceiling about to come down.

Speaker 2 And you were like, what would Satine, how would Satine feel in this moment?

Speaker 2 she'd be like i've done this hundreds of times i love people are coming for me i need to be in that mindset and literally people like i don't even need to try like i i would say spoiler it's like a good like 20 ish minutes into the show before we even see you and like i don't know like the people that we were with we were just like oh my god we're here for jojo like when she coming out like aaron spate everybody david harris we love the whole castle group but we're just like They really are like teasing it.

Speaker 2 Teasing it in such a cool way. Like, JoJo's about to pop out and then you popped down.
You came down.

Speaker 2 And show up. They do the same thing with Nicole in the movie, though.
Were you a fan of the movie?

Speaker 1 Big, massive fan. One of my favorite movies.
Baz Lerman. I love you.
And you know it.

Speaker 2 He came backstage and then he like showed love. And I'm like, oh, my God, you like me? He's a character.
Such a character. Yeah.
I would love to, like.

Speaker 1 party with him.

Speaker 2 No, I bet that option is available to you. Hopefully one of these days.

Speaker 1 He just seems, yeah, like such a character. So interesting.

Speaker 2 But yeah. I remember the first time I ever watched that movie, I watched it with my mom.
We rented it on demand. And the first half hour is so bat shit.

Speaker 2 The whole thing is like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But you come to appreciate its level of batshitness.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Like when you adjust to it, because what happens is you adjust to it and your senses are so overloaded. And then it falls into just being them.
And their chemistry together just explodes.

Speaker 2 Just there's something about her sheer star power and magnitude and that like that hair color, and like the way that she is so committed to it. I just, and then the emotional place that it goes.

Speaker 2 I remember what happened was we watched a half hour of it. My mother was like, I have to tell you, I don't even know what's happening.
She took my mom,

Speaker 2 she, I guess, turned it off, left for 10 minutes, and she had she had probably gone to bed. And I was like, Let me go join this again in the process.

Speaker 2 So it came back, and they're in the suite, and it's just the two of them. By the end, I was sobbing a mess.
I had never been so emotionally connected in my life.

Speaker 2 And it all all paid off.

Speaker 1 Iwan McGregor.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Oh, come on.

Speaker 1 Really pulls at my heartstrings.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That like shouty singing he does.
That's so earnest and beautiful. Yeah.
Earnest. Earnest Vernis.

Speaker 1 Yeah. The way that Baz, like his cuts and all that stuff, it's very frenetic, I think.
And I love that about Elvis. I love that about the Great Gatsby.
I love that style is just so, so wild.

Speaker 1 And yeah, the songs. You hadn't seen it before the show.

Speaker 2 Neither had.

Speaker 2 Well, I had tickets to see the original broadbodcast and then COVID and then COVID happened did you think that the songs would be different because the songs are different from the movie yes well I knew that the songs would be different but I did not I think the show does a really good job of not telling people like it's not in the playbill like you know what I mean like I think that's a very good intention because it's like we should be surprised as an audience about what songs are being said.

Speaker 1 It's always so funny, like when the audience is like, oh, I see what you're doing there. Like when Aaron turns his head and it's like, when I say shut up and dance with me or whatever.

Speaker 1 And he looks and winks and they're like, The audience is like, Oh,

Speaker 2 anyway,

Speaker 2 I love that. So, there's the number in the movie, which is Nicole sings, One Day I'll Fly,

Speaker 2 and that's fully replaced by Katy Perry Firework. Yeah,

Speaker 1 is that what it's replaced by? Pretty much.

Speaker 2 I need a pretty much there's a scene, there's a scene where, like, you know, she is preparing, I guess, to meet whoever the Duke is, whoever, and she sings about her desire to, you know, transcend that place and do more.

Speaker 2 And I guess it's not exactly an emotional one-to-one, but it is like in that same place. And firework really,

Speaker 1 it takes you there. It does take you there.
Her Duke was creepy, by the way, like really, really creepy.

Speaker 1 And like in our show, he's very sexy.

Speaker 2 Very sexy.

Speaker 2 We were interested in him.

Speaker 1 Yes, he is interesting.

Speaker 2 He's interesting. He is interesting.

Speaker 2 Referring to someone hot as interesting. As interesting.
That's one of my favorite ways. Really, not always the case.

Speaker 1 Big bro, maybe I need to ask you off camera.

Speaker 2 Ask whatever you want. No, no, no, off-camera.
Big bro mythology on this show. We really don't say much off-camera here.

Speaker 1 Okay, great. I really enjoyed the way that you talked about this mythical sex with someone because there are people and the way you said.
Oh, I read the book.

Speaker 2 I read my book.

Speaker 2 Yes. But

Speaker 1 into the canon of somebody's, what I'm like, yo, because there are people who I have mythicized.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 That is great. I'm just going to start thinking about and speaking about things.

Speaker 2 Sometimes, though, that is dangerous to do because certain situations can't really be replicated. Like, I remember that moment was such a,

Speaker 2 it was kind of watershed for me that moment, to be honest with you, because I was thinking back around that trip to Fire Island and like we've been back several times.

Speaker 2 And that was really like the last, that was the one time I really felt like very, like, I'll just say like very sexually free.

Speaker 2 And like I let, because when you go to on a like a gay vacation like that, or to any destination, you know, it's like whatever, like you're supposed to be like debaucherous.

Speaker 2 Let's say like it's like a Vegas thing or whatever the fuck. It's like you can kind of choose your own adventure.
And that trip, I I remember we were saying we were in our Charizard era.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was this is

Speaker 2 Charizard. Charizard.
We were in our Charizard Pokemon. She was a famous dragon Pokemon.

Speaker 2 You didn't want to go up against her.

Speaker 2 So we were in our Charizard era on that trip. And the way it was manifesting for me was just being very forward and available.
And I will say, in recent trips, I've missed that person. Oh,

Speaker 1 you can summon that person.

Speaker 2 I know, but don't you?

Speaker 2 I know what you know what I'm talking about. It's like, it's like sometimes it's like the access to your

Speaker 2 vitality

Speaker 2 is, is sometimes not always like, I know, because you texted me when you listened to the episode last week. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you said, because she goes, when you said, I need access to my penis to feel like Matt Rogers, she goes, well, yes.

Speaker 2 That is. Which is an SSRI journey.
Yes.

Speaker 2 We're all SSRI girlies. I'm no longer no longer girls.

Speaker 1 I'm no longer. And that is cool for me.
But

Speaker 1 I loved it at the time.

Speaker 1 But I'm glad to not be on it anymore, personally.

Speaker 2 Of course. But you said you were a situational girly.

Speaker 1 That's what my therapist said. Yeah.
She was like, I think it's situational depression. But yeah, I was Prozac for a long time.
And then I'm like, do I need to be on this? Should I be on this forever?

Speaker 1 Or can I explore like natural things? Can I explore what happens when I work out consistently?

Speaker 1 And I actually try to take, you know, like prioritize those things. Yeah.
And it was, it was very good for me.

Speaker 2 What's your journey now? Are you, are you vegan? Like, no, every day. Okay, God.

Speaker 1 I just had a chicken finger.

Speaker 2 Uh-oh, an orange finger.

Speaker 1 Yes, honey, mustard baby.

Speaker 2 Honey mustard baby. So good.

Speaker 1 So I'm not vegan, but I love to like cook plant-based. Yeah.
I've been vegan before for a relationship, actually, I think is like really why I was vegan at the time.

Speaker 1 But then I was like, oh, I feel really good. And it's hot.
Like, if you're vegan together and you're like eating watermelon and like

Speaker 1 making each other food and like being naked and hot, it was just a moment. I know.
And yeah.

Speaker 1 So, no, I just, I call myself a flexitarian.

Speaker 2 Flexitarian. Would it be nice to have in someone you were with if they could do the vegan thing with you again? Just like a new person?

Speaker 1 I really enjoy the freedom of like when I go overseas to eat the cuisine of where I'm at in Rome, if you will. So I, I don't really desire to be vegan right now.
Great, great.

Speaker 2 Are you with someone now? I'm sorry. This is like my roundabout way of being like, who who are you? Are you dating anybody?

Speaker 1 I am not dating anyone seriously, but I am outside. Out there.
I'm outside. And it's so weird.
I never thought that I would be on a dating app, but I'm on Ryan.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
I read that.

Speaker 1 Have y'all seen me?

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. I know.
I haven't seen

Speaker 2 any women, but I see some women. If you go to the map,

Speaker 2 do not use the map. So we'll run into Joanna 33.

Speaker 2 Joanna 33, not mid-30s. Not yet, mid-30s.
Early. So early.
Not identifying as mid-30s yet. It's a really good idea.
Maybe that's good.

Speaker 1 I'm going to change myself.

Speaker 2 And so when you're dating now, is the intent? Because in the book, you also talk about like the many intense relationships that you've had.

Speaker 1 Oh, many.

Speaker 2 What are you calling me? No.

Speaker 2 Many, many lovers. No,

Speaker 2 but I would say,

Speaker 2 you know what I'm saying? Yes. And so,

Speaker 2 you know, the words love addict are even used. Right.
Love addicted.

Speaker 2 And I have to say, I identified with a lot of what you said. Yeah.

Speaker 2 and lately i've also been on the journey of like i'm going on dates and it's to spend time with another person yeah and is that where you're at now and have you adjusted to that in a way where you can leave the date and not overthink whoo

Speaker 1 um yeah i think that's the beauty of learning how to just go on dates yeah like what you said and also like

Speaker 1 Not just because I've jumped into relationships where I've been like this is good.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to go with this and i've been a serial you know two years three years one thing after the next never really free falling always having my hand on the next monkey bar man if you will you know what i'm saying like the next thing and always um having that security and comfort of the next person yeah so since i ended my engagement like almost two years ago now i've been allowing myself to

Speaker 1 or or trying practicing free falling and like being alone and

Speaker 1 last year when I was in Moulin Rouge, I like after I got into the swing of the show, I went on a few dates with men that I would have never met just in the wild of life and the circles that I run in and stuff, because it's mostly like singers and artists and performers and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 So I was saying like swiping no on anybody that was an artist. And just, I was like, I went out with a neurosurgeon.
I think I said this in the book. And like a teacher and an executive.

Speaker 1 And, but the truth is, is that I just do like artists. No, I think it's very hard not to.

Speaker 2 It's one less thing to explain about yourself.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I just like the way music affects me and how I love it and how I like to, like, you know, I grew up like harmonizing with my parents and like singing with them in the car and stuff.

Speaker 1 And I think there's something very

Speaker 1 comforting about that. But I question, is the comfort a good thing? Or is it something that I should, if it's familiar, should I go try to, you know, look for something else?

Speaker 1 So a long-winded way of answering your question is: have I figured out how to not overthink it?

Speaker 1 I try to have a full enough life to where I'm like sewing into my friendships, feeling good about my career, the work I'm doing, like being able to look myself in the mirror and be like, I'm proud of you.

Speaker 2 You're a nice person.

Speaker 1 You're doing a good job. So then I'm just like, I'm a catch.
And, you know, I just want to see if I like this person. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 That's what I'm trying to say. Well, we try to sometimes say, well, you were the first person that said this, and I literally adopted it immediately.

Speaker 2 But But it was, if I'm spending time with you, it's a big deal.

Speaker 1 The serious where did you get that?

Speaker 2 I think I just made it up myself. You might be able to do that.
But it really is a big deal. Yeah.
It is. Yeah.
Isn't it?

Speaker 2 And like, especially now for you, where you are feeling this like, not ease, because it's never easy to lead a Broadway show, but it's like you are feeling this like, like that is a stable center and anchor of your life, but you're, you're now able to like, you were telling us earlier, like have a night out like once a week.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, like that is protected time though yes you know what i mean it's precious so if i'm gonna go out with somebody a fucking stranger i know a lot you know loose

Speaker 1 i don't know what the hell these guys are yeah you know then it's like it needs to feel substantial or like there's it's there's something of

Speaker 1 something there yes So yeah, and I've never really had that type of stability of like showing up to the same job ever.

Speaker 1 So it, that is cool to know that I'm going to the same theater. I'm going to see the same people since I was young.
And I love the flexibility and the change and all that.

Speaker 1 But I think there was something in my spirit that was like, it'd be cool to be planted for a few months.

Speaker 2 Well, you were saying how the last time you did Milan Rouge, there was a moment when you went back to LA

Speaker 2 and how you were kind of nervous about this. stability or the structure kind of

Speaker 2 just kind of being put on pause for a little bit, right? Like

Speaker 2 your life back in LA was just like catching up to you again again and like hitting you in one like big moment.

Speaker 2 And I wonder now, like now that you're back and now that you're in the city, like what is, is there some intention now about like staying here a little longer, whether or not it has to do with the show?

Speaker 2 Because you do love it, right?

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 2 I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And Aunt Connie's outside. I know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 My aunt Connie and my cousin's girlfriend Billy were from south of Boston and they just like, they'll drive in. So I get to see my family more often.

Speaker 1 I was in LA for 14 years and I didn't realize how far I actually was. Obviously, it's 3,000 miles away, whatever, but like, it just made me into a weirder person.

Speaker 1 Like I am weird, but like it made me into a certain, I'm, I'm just good on, I'm good on LA right now. I think I've spent enough time.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Being back on the East Coast feels right in my spirit. I think I need it.
I need to remind myself of like this gritty little bitch that I am. Like

Speaker 1 I like how weird things happen here. I like the chance meetings that you might run into somebody on the street.

Speaker 1 And I like all the walking and I like taking the subway and I like the community that I feel here. And yeah, I dig it.

Speaker 1 So I think I'm going to explore some more neighborhoods and see what feels like the right fit for me.

Speaker 2 Come to come to Brooklyn. I was going to say, what about Brooklyn for you? What about

Speaker 2 like Carroll Gardens? Okay, I did look at a place in Carroll Gardens.

Speaker 1 It was like a five-story walk-up, and I'm like, I don't know if I can do that.

Speaker 2 No, that's tough.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's probably going to be a no for me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But maybe you can tell me some like cool spots.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to put Matt in touch with my my gal, my broker. Um, but the iconic Ronnie Rose.
The iconic Ronnie Rose. Her second mention in a row.

Speaker 1 Wow. Really?

Speaker 2 You just throwing it in. Ronnie Rose is like another mythological hurto that looms large in the world of real estate.
Not exactly. Ronnie Rose is my real estate big bro.

Speaker 2 She really gave me the business.

Speaker 2 But anyway, I'm feeling broken. Okay, so

Speaker 2 I'll commute. Not really.

Speaker 2 You know what? Here's the thing. Oh, but to the Hirschfeld.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but like, I'm not going to move into the Hirschfeld. So like, I guess I don't know how long, you know, yes, exactly.
Just like six more weeks there.

Speaker 1 But if, yeah, if I'm going to want to be a part of that world a little bit more, then I don't know.

Speaker 2 I think you are so where you belong on Broadway. I love you in theater.
I mean, I just think it makes sense because I'm just

Speaker 2 because you really are great. And I mean, like,

Speaker 2 you really are.

Speaker 2 Gas me up, little bro.

Speaker 2 Shoot a load to that.

Speaker 2 That's the time.

Speaker 2 That's another thing. Gas me up, little bro.
Gas me me up, little bro. Period.
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Speaker 2 I just can see you in so many roles. I can see you just doing a play.
Like, I mean, like.

Speaker 1 Great. Yeah, because it would be so nice to not have to think about singing.
Do you know what I mean, you guys? Yes.

Speaker 1 It'd be so cute to be able to go out and have a cocktail and then do the show the next day.

Speaker 2 Not me. Couldn't be me.
You know what, though? I remember, like, I saw Adina Menzel in a play. We did a play.
Oh, yeah. What was that? It was

Speaker 2 Face Valley or something. Whatever.

Speaker 2 It was something.

Speaker 1 She's doing another one. She has a new one coming out soon.
Oh, great.

Speaker 2 Is it a musical or is it a play?

Speaker 2 Because I saw her in a play and I was like, this is Adina of famously of singing. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 And just to see her in a play, I was like, you know, if you connected to this part of town, like, they'll think of you for all sorts of things.

Speaker 2 And I have to imagine that, like, well, obviously, like, you're doing things outside of Moulin Rouge that are like exciting.

Speaker 2 But I do want to ask, like, just in terms of recorded music, like, you talk about the song Porcelain at the end of the book. Yeah.
Is that something that we're going to be hearing?

Speaker 1 Yes. I'm putting out new music soon.

Speaker 2 You are?

Speaker 1 I think we're going to lead with porcelain, which is really cool. And I'm just so nervous because I just haven't put out music in a long time.
And it's been three years.

Speaker 1 I think so. It feels like it's been 33 years.
It feels like I've never put out music before. Actually, it's so weird.
But yeah, I'm really excited just to rip the band-aid off and just put stuff out.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 1 new era, there's so much dope music out there.

Speaker 2 And I just want to play.

Speaker 1 I just want to be, you know, just have fun.

Speaker 2 We were saying the other day, you're really into the Sabrina album. So good.
I feel like you guys speak to each other. You really do.

Speaker 1 She's so funny and cute and horny. And I'm obsessed.

Speaker 2 She also can

Speaker 2 map out a riff. Yes.

Speaker 1 She is really

Speaker 2 like, is she underrated as a vocalist 100 in fact

Speaker 1 there was this video of her like just messing around with this jasmine sullivan song yes oh i've seen and sizza commented like i did not know you had exactly and a lot of us felt that way wow do you know eric vitro the the vocal coach he's ariana's vocal coach i feel like i i don't know if he went over to the uk like he's been a part of her life for a long time but he's also we worked with sabrina i work with him from time to time he's great he's in la if you guys ever knew amazing

Speaker 2 i feel like all three of all three of you that you just mentioned, like, I hear a ton of Ariana, like, like, in, like, all three of you guys' stuff.

Speaker 2 Like, I thought Sabrina's album was just like, not only was it incredibly well-performed and well-written, but it's just, it's like a fusion of those two things. There's just a lot of personality.

Speaker 2 It feels like getting to know someone better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think that on your last two outputs, too, like, sometimes when I was reading the book, I was like, man, this has to be a really difficult thing to have such a complicated relationship with things other people truly love yeah it makes me feel really bad no no no because i i completely identify with that do you of course being like well it's it means something to people and so therefore it is like valid and important it's something that you should honor as as someone who who made it but also and i'm just talking about like little four-minute sketches you know what i mean and yeah sure let's say like when everyone comes up and says that you hate oh my gosh that you don't it's not even hate it's just like when someone just boils you down to a thing when someone just when you know someone will just shout across the street like iceberg iceberg.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, Aquamarine. Yeah.
Is that, is that what they, is it?

Speaker 2 It's happened.

Speaker 2 What happened? Yeah, I'm the girl from Aquamarine.

Speaker 1 You're so good in that, though. Oh, well, thank you so much.
You really are. But please tell me more about that.
Well, no, it's just, I, I, I really,

Speaker 2 and what, what Matt's getting at is like, it's, it's like, it's a constant renegotiation internally where you're like,

Speaker 2 And it lands like the pendulum finally like stays at,

Speaker 2 aren't we so lucky to be doing what we do?

Speaker 1 but like I think you are so honest and vulnerable about how difficult a lot of these songs that you put out were because it was being dictated by all these other people yeah and that makes me feel a lot of ways it makes me feel like a little embarrassed because that but not to where I'm like you know hanging my head down you know like it's just shameful yeah I don't feel ashamed about it because I understand now like why I made decisions all throughout my life like even ones that I'm like where I hurt people or wherever but like, as it goes with that, like, it kind of just makes me really excited when I see artists that are just, I believe they really are fighting for their vision.

Speaker 1 That takes a lot of courage.

Speaker 1 I think it also takes a lot of support from other people around them, whether it's their management or, you know, just even family and friends and stuff who like really see and want to help them.

Speaker 1 pull that off, I think. And I just, I always felt kind of alone, like when I was trying to fight for something.

Speaker 1 So then I, because I was going through stuff in my personal life or family life, and I had like been in this wicked long lawsuit and I just had no more resources energetically or financially or anything, I just like felt so backed into a corner.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That, so, so I'm like embarrassed that I like did songs that I didn't love, but I understood why I trusted, you know, executives that were like, this is going to be a hit.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I just think I'm supposed to have more hits. So I'm just going to do what you tell me to do because everyone's telling me you're supposed to be this or blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 So, but I'm sure

Speaker 2 you can understand the confusion.

Speaker 2 They happened to be right the first time.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 for leave get out. 100%.
And in the book, you discuss how you first heard Leave Get Out even as a 12-year-old and you're like, this doesn't feel like me and I don't get it.

Speaker 2 And then you record it, you put your thing on it, and it literally immediately pops off. So then it's like it becomes a core belief.
These people do know better.

Speaker 1 Core belief. And it was no longer those people that were telling me.
It was just other people that filled that place.

Speaker 1 So I was like, oh, even though it's not like Barry and Vincent, you know, making these, these calls, it is other people who also have had success in that area.

Speaker 1 And because it's a core belief, they, whoever they are, know better than me.

Speaker 1 And then those, those songs that I compromised on, it just never popped off like the promise was. So I'm like, so then you just feel silly.
Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 But it's kind of a blessing in disguise because to sing over and over and over again songs that you just really don't feel like you, like, if they're not big hits, you like, don't have to sing them.

Speaker 2 Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 Totally fine. Totally.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you're like Creature of Habit, for example, which I like don't care for that song. I'm so glad that I don't have to sing that.
I'm a creature.

Speaker 2 What the fuck?

Speaker 2 You're singing the words, I'm a creature.

Speaker 1 I'm a creature. And I just did Masked Singer.
I'm like, honestly,

Speaker 2 I want to take myself off of this planet right now.

Speaker 1 This is insanity. But that was the recommendation.

Speaker 2 We talk about climbing Cringe Mountain. I feel like the way you wrote about your time on the Masked Singer was, I think, kind of beautiful and sort of really

Speaker 2 holistic too, because you're just like, this is obviously like. not where I thought I was going to end up.

Speaker 1 I thought I was going to be doing.

Speaker 2 But you've, you've like crossed that fire and that crucible. And like, you can literally do anything.
Like no one can tell you.

Speaker 1 I actually really enjoyed doing it. It was during, it was 2020 or 2021.
So I was like very much about getting a check as well.

Speaker 2 Sure. Get the check.

Speaker 1 I really enjoyed that. Yeah.
So yeah, so it was cool. I got to sing songs that I wouldn't have.
Like I sang, How Am I Supposed to Live Without You, Michael Bolton.

Speaker 2 Major. Major.
Major. By the way, your cover of Can't Fight This Feeling from Lisa Frankenstein, which came out this February.

Speaker 1 Zelda Williams, director of it.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 That movie, cult classic, Instant.

Speaker 2 Cult Classic. It really, like, that song, you gave that song.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You really did. Thank you.
You gave every song. But like, thank you.

Speaker 2 I mean, one thing that I think was a really fun thing when it happened, and also it's really interesting to look back now that like Taylor has her Taylor's versions of stuff is you re-recording your first two albums and releasing them in 2018.

Speaker 2 And I do remember being so excited when they came out because I was like, because they weren't available for streaming.

Speaker 2 And I was such a, I think I didn't know where my 2004 actual JoJo compact disc was, nor did I know how to play play it now.

Speaker 2 But when you did that, and by the way, Doug Krantz actually has a gift.

Speaker 2 When he takes photos for me, when I'm, when I'm doing my show sometimes,

Speaker 2 he's really great. And he gave me as a gift those two vinyls.
Wow. And so I have them in LA.
The 2018 vinyls. I love

Speaker 2 it.

Speaker 2 But what's great about the re-recording of that, and like I was really happy to see that you write this in the book, is that when you finally got to re-record those things and you have those little bittersweet moments of reconnecting with you know what it felt like to record them the first time, it almost feels like you can speak to and perform them in a way that you actually understand those emotions, right?

Speaker 2 And in a way, it's like

Speaker 2 new songs, yeah, and they are new songs. They were grown-ass songs, bro.

Speaker 1 You had a grown-ass voice, the way you do me. What am I talking about?

Speaker 1 How to touch a girl? I mean, how to touch her heart, but like, I don't know. So, you know,

Speaker 2 but how to touch a girl, I mean, like, it's really meaningful that it's like the song that you wrote, and it's like such a beautiful, it's like Aretha, like This Girl's in Love With You.

Speaker 2 That was the inspo. Yeah, so that was the inspo.

Speaker 1 But even singing like Keep On, Keeping On, which was like the song that I wrote by myself at 12 years old for my first album, I was like really touched by thinking about my little prepubescent self

Speaker 1 walking around the apartment complex and like writing those lyrics and then to re-sing them. It was, I just,

Speaker 1 even in just writing this book in totality, I realized how very little I had actually taken the time to try to remember because I didn't want to.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's really interesting.

Speaker 1 I didn't give myself the time or space to appreciate how unbelievable my life is and has been.

Speaker 1 The things that I've accomplished, the things I've overcome, the, to me, it feels like against the odds that I'm still alive sometimes. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And so I'm like, take the time and be like,

Speaker 1 even the wisdom that I had at 12 years old to like want to encourage myself and others and keep on keeping on.

Speaker 2 Like, that's precious. Yeah.
I'm like, oh my God, little Joe. And that she was speaking to you 20 years later.

Speaker 1 Yes, she was still telling me to keep on keeping on. I'm like, what is happening? It was cool.

Speaker 2 But that's interesting to hear you say that, like, you weren't sure what the capacity for your own memory was because, like, the detail is, is very granular. It's very specific in this book.

Speaker 2 And I, I wonder if that must have been, and I'm sure it was like a very intense process of just like picking out these details of just like, even like you're talking about like how long this hallway in this Vegas hotel was.

Speaker 2 I was just like, yeah, that's so specific. Like that's tied to a very dark memory, but you're like, but just even in the book, you're like, these Vegas hotel hallways are fucking long.

Speaker 2 That is very visceral. That detail is very visceral because you can feel it.
So like, I imagine it was

Speaker 2 really deep kind of excavating of like. the details of those really intense moments.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I have been a therapy for a long time now.

Speaker 1 So I have thought about some of the like pain points in my life because I've wanted to work through them and try to learn something or grow from them.

Speaker 1 But like that moment in Vegas, for example, that is a hinge point in my life where it's also my mom's story. And I wanted to be really.

Speaker 1 thoughtful and sensitive about the way that I told things that were her story and that are pain points for her too.

Speaker 1 But I realized how much I had protected other people to where it was like too much for me to bear.

Speaker 1 And like, I can see that room, that Vegas hallway, because that was a moment that I'll never forget.

Speaker 1 You know, I can see the letter that my mom wrote me, and I can see it strewn, you know, all the things that are in the book and that happened and that I didn't know if I was ever going to share, that my family knows and things like that.

Speaker 1 And it's not from a place of wanting to call anybody out or anything like that. Like, trust me, I felt a lot of,

Speaker 1 I wrestled with it.

Speaker 1 But the story that I tell in this book and what my experience has been is about redemption and evolution. And people can change if they want to.

Speaker 1 And that by sharing it all, no one can use anything against you. No one can, like, you know what I mean? There's nothing to be ashamed of.

Speaker 2 That's beautiful. And the theme that kind of rang for me in reading this was like from the beginning, from your first appearance on Kid's Day, The Darnest Things,

Speaker 2 which I loved as a kid too. Like when they brought up the show, I loved it.

Speaker 1 It was so sweet.

Speaker 2 but it's like from your first moments being on camera, it's like you were talking to a very complicated adult.

Speaker 2 And then I think the theme of this story for you is that like your whole life and your career has been about like being affected by these very complicated individuals and that you, by the end of it, have the grace to forgive a lot of them and to complete them as people in the way that you talk and write about them.

Speaker 2 I think that is like the story of JoJo to me. Like

Speaker 1 oh my God.

Speaker 2 Thank you for saying it. Like,

Speaker 1 I really appreciate it because I had a lot of, I did have fear about

Speaker 1 anybody feeling upset or like I put them out there. I, I, look, I don't paint myself in like the, the rosiest, you know, light.
I'm not a victim, nor am I a villain. I've been all things.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people have been that in my life, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's not like anyone can read this book and be like, wow, she really went out of her way to make it seem like everyone was the bad guy.
Good.

Speaker 2 That's not how I look at it. That's not how I look at my life.

Speaker 2 In fact, I think one of my favorite parts of this book is when you literally just tee it up by being like, I don't even know how to say this, so I'm just going to say it. I cheated on someone.

Speaker 2 This awesome person.

Speaker 2 This incredible person.

Speaker 2 And I think that that was actually one of the things

Speaker 2 that, of course, like if you're on your like moral high horse or whatever, like which people, of course, undoubtedly may be,

Speaker 2 You might not see yourself in it. But I think that like, all I know is this idea that I know this is the wrong thing to do, but the urge inside me, whatever, you paint that really, really vividly.

Speaker 2 This

Speaker 1 compulsion.

Speaker 1 Saboteur compulsion inside, which I think, you know, in the way that I think about addiction, addiction can be to stimulation, to love, to substances, to getting outside yourself, to chaos, to, I've flirted with all of that.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? And I think that I was in such pain. There was such confusion and chaos in my life that it's as if I needed to poison this like one thing because I felt unworthy.

Speaker 1 It's like I wanted to test maybe subconsciously how much, it's just, there's no excuse.

Speaker 1 But looking back, I can, and through therapy, I'm just like, why?

Speaker 2 Why? Right.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Yeah. The excuse is the human condition.
You know, it's like, like, that's, that's what it is. It's like, it's irrational.
It's

Speaker 1 selfish.

Speaker 2 But also, it's informed by like, and this is, this is me. I'm not putting blame on these people, but it's, I think it's a product of you being

Speaker 2 the on the receiving end of a lot of adults and people who were there who were there to protect you, who made you feel maybe unprotected at times.

Speaker 1 I felt very alone.

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Only you.

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An F-150 is all steel, sweat, and dreams. Right? Mm-hmm.

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But you have to first. You have to.
And a Mustang? The Mustang that conquers curves.

Speaker 2 You are more capable than you know. Like, for example, I never thought I could parallel park.
I just thought it wasn't something that was going to happen for me in my life.

Speaker 2 And not everyone gets to have every experience, you know? But then, suddenly, I did a parallel park and I thought, wow, I'm going to apply to Harvard. I didn't get in, but I did parallel park.

Speaker 2 Sometimes you just need to push. What is it that they say? Whether you think you can or you think you can't? You're right.
Ready, set

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Speaker 2 You know who looms very large in this book, who I wanted to ask you about is Aaliyah.

Speaker 2 Like, from the very beginning, it feels like there's this moment where you go into Barry Hankerson, who was her uncle,

Speaker 2 and who was, you know, the founder of Black Ground. And, you know, he obviously is a complicated figure in the book and at large, but there was a moment where you sing for him.

Speaker 2 And it was your first time meeting him. And there's a moment where he says he literally saw her spirit and her spirit told him that you were the one to invest in.
Insane. Insane.
Insane.

Speaker 2 I texted him when I when I got to that part. Insane.
But that in many ways it's insane because it's like you believe that he believed it, but also you also think this is a manipulation. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 Because there's probably no

Speaker 2 no more, especially when that person is literally at that point, like a specter, like they're not there.

Speaker 2 And her image is so brandished and and utilized for this thing that is like, you know, of the past, but also will always feel contemporary. It's like she is an ideal that can never really be

Speaker 1 reached. Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 And in the years since she's passed, like, I feel like, you know, the things that have come out about R. Kelly, the things that have come out about a lot of people around her.

Speaker 2 I want to know what your relationship to her is today.

Speaker 1 She's an icon. There's no one like she has inspired all the girls, myself included, included, but everyone who's putting out music around her time.

Speaker 1 And since then, like she is the one, she's the prototype and an amazing actress and all-around performer. She was about to go on and do the Matrix series, I think, right?

Speaker 1 Like she was, and she had just done Queen of the Damned and, you know, Romeo Must Die and all these things, like just unbelievable.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 feel so much for her because of,

Speaker 1 I know some of her family, you know, in dealing with Blackground, that label was founded for her because Barry had taken her to every other label and they said, she's too young, we don't want to deal with it, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Then he was also managing R. Kelly at the time.

Speaker 1 And he put them together to work together. The rest is history in many ways.

Speaker 1 And she was not protected.

Speaker 1 She was a child and she, you know, acted grown and looked grown and was. singing grown.
We were all sitting there.

Speaker 2 She did make her look very grown.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And there was this whole mystery and amazing thing surrounding her. Like her aura was larger than life and the marketing and the music and just everything was perfect.

Speaker 1 But now that I'm an adult, I'm like, she was not protected. And matter of fact,

Speaker 1 I know a lot of things that I'll never say. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's just

Speaker 1 crazy, all the stuff that's come out with R. Kelly.
Thank God. Yep.
Because I heard so many stories. It really was

Speaker 1 the industry's biggest secret. And there were people around that facilitated that.

Speaker 1 And you can, you know, through without me needing to say it, know who facilitated that. And, you know, it's just,

Speaker 1 there's no way around it. It's disgusting.

Speaker 2 It's really rough. And I feel like your connection to her is even kind of

Speaker 2 projected onto the way that like Blackground

Speaker 2 sort of.

Speaker 2 withheld both of your work for so long.

Speaker 2 You know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so every label has to do a deal with the digital streaming platforms.

Speaker 1 Like that was going on when kind of the digital streaming revolution was happening and everything was changing and people were streaming music as opposed to like buying in stuff.

Speaker 1 So every label, no matter how big or small, needed to do individual deals with all the DSPs. My former label that Aaliyah was on as well, and Tony Braxton and Timblin and stuff, they did not do deal.

Speaker 1 They just didn't get to it. Or they just like, you know, they just made interesting business choices that I'll never undo.

Speaker 1 Ridiculous. Like, I just don't get it.

Speaker 1 So, my stuff was not available on streaming. Neither was Aaliyah's.
Her fans were going crazy online. My fans were going crazy online.

Speaker 1 And I was like, if I can do something about my own history, legacy being snuffed out, I need to try to do something. And so then I re-recorded my old music.
There was no real precedent for that.

Speaker 1 I never hadn't seen that be done before. So we just went for it.
And then a couple years later, they got to doing a street, you know, a deal with it.

Speaker 1 And then it, then it just looked like I just wanted to re-record my music, but it was out of necessity. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I could tell even then, I was like, this must be a thing of like, there must be something fucked up going on.

Speaker 2 And the fact that you were doing that was like, both, I'm sure, empowering for you, but also you have to know so empowering and fun for your fans. Yes.
Yes. Because like, I'm telling you, like.

Speaker 1 I hope so.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. Yeah.
Just to even, first of all, first of all, to even have access to it was huge.

Speaker 2 and the second of all is just like i know you talk a lot in the book about like your relationship to your singing voice now versus then and how there is a lot of anxiety around just the way the human voice changes for both every seven years they say really have you heard of that the book yeah i've heard of this well yeah that you're that you're entirely you're entirely cellularly replaced

Speaker 2 every seven years

Speaker 2 but i think seven is vocal well but we're not none of us are scientists the chemist over here no no no no no i'm not that's pretty close to a scientist no no no that's not true.

Speaker 2 But, but yes, like the way you write about it in the book is so honest too, because you're like, because now I'm sure you love the way your timbre, but it's like, I'm sure with the changes as you age, it's like...

Speaker 1 It was weird to accept. Of course.
Yeah, because I mean, my first album, I hadn't gotten my period. Like, I wasn't.

Speaker 2 It wasn't a woman's voice.

Speaker 1 Quite literally. Yeah.
Not a girl. I was a girl.
And also not yet a woman.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So,

Speaker 2 yeah, it was weird because I'm like, oh my God, people are always going to compare my voice to a prepubescent voice yeah now i just don't care i'm just too old for that i'm just too grown i will say like something about the first two albums not being on streaming and but then the 2018 albums being or yeah right like there was like a little they literally then put the albums on stream exactly that's what i'm saying so then then i made you it made you look like yeah but whatever i think i've just stayed with the 2018 releases and i just prefer those versions

Speaker 2 honest dead ass conviction down my like like conviction down conviction down. I'm like, we're listening to Baby It's You 2018.
I don't, it's, it's just, it's better, it's a little richer.

Speaker 2 Whoa, it's richer. It's just, I think it's just better than the fact that you still like Baby It's You

Speaker 2 is huge for us.

Speaker 2 Because we can't, but

Speaker 1 I don't dislike Too Little Too Later or Leave Get Out or anything.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, first of all, I get what you're saying, but like, you don't really talk shit about Too Little Too Later.

Speaker 1 No, because I wanted that.

Speaker 2 I love Too Little Too Late.

Speaker 1 That was my shit. Like, it was sent to my sidekick messenger or whatever.
Like, the demo from

Speaker 2 um i her last name cunningham she's she's super dope and then billy steinberg and josh alexander and it was sent to me and i was like i knew that if i could get this song that that should be my next single too little too late was everything everything i just have to shout out not that kind of girl oh period 2018 just better than the original so much better yeah first of all the way you tore up swv week week like as a 12 year old

Speaker 2 you had absolutely no right and i was not surprised that the girls were reaching out because that had to be who from that time was like a singer-singer that reached back out that you were especially gagged.

Speaker 2 It had to be a ton of people.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 2 Like around that time, when you get introduced to singers, like Brandy. Yeah,

Speaker 2 I mean, that was like

Speaker 1 Shaka Khan.

Speaker 2 I remember like, I mean, oh, Whitney Houston, I mean, sent me flowers to Madison Square Garden.

Speaker 1 No, when I was performing at like a jingle ball or something, her and her daughter, rest in peace, to them, them, Bobby, Christina. They sent me flowers.
And I'll never forget that moment.

Speaker 2 That is the ultimate validation as a singer.

Speaker 1 It really is. Actually, I don't need anything else.

Speaker 2 Period. Truly.
But like, there are so many wonderful moments in the book, too, where you just talk about these like moments and these interactions with all these singers, like Destiny's Child. And

Speaker 2 even like going to Taylor's house with Selena and how she was like, keeping up with the lawsuit and so many things. Victoria Monet.

Speaker 2 I love the Victoria Monet Monet piece because we just saw, we're Victoria fans.

Speaker 2 Speaking of Big Bro, I think that she may have made an appearance last night sonically.

Speaker 1 I love, I have texted her this. I was like, I have had some

Speaker 1 dalliances of my life to her music. Oh, here you go.

Speaker 2 I really have. I got this feeling for you.

Speaker 2 That and Ariana positions

Speaker 2 were big. Well, Well, Victoria's all over positions, right? Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, look, her hand on all contemporary RB pop music is monumental.
And we saw her at Coachella.

Speaker 2 She killed it. Of course.

Speaker 2 That was the live show. She's a force.

Speaker 1 I could not be happier for her. No one deserves it more.

Speaker 1 And she's a mother. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 I'm just in awe.

Speaker 2 Just to see, like, by the industry standards, like someone quote unquote older or like up in years.

Speaker 1 No, it's it's fire. Yeah, she's amazing, mid-30s, looking better than anyone in the world.
Yep, and it's just it's

Speaker 2 the aesthetic is so you can just tell it's someone who has, you know, for better or worse. I'm sure coming up, it felt like, when is it gonna be my turn?

Speaker 2 But now that it's like she can have this fully realized, like visual, like sonic, you know, emotional identity and what she's doing that feels really satisfying.

Speaker 1 That's the exact word that I would use to describe it. It's satisfying because of all the thoughtfulness, the attention to detail.
She spared no expense. She put everything into this.

Speaker 1 I love Jaguar 1 and 2.

Speaker 1 I'm just so here for everything that she does. Like I trust her as an artist so much.
And she's such a beautiful person.

Speaker 1 And I know so many people that are in her orbit. And I've, you know, known her a little bit throughout the years.
And she's just, it's so cool to see her.

Speaker 2 i was with your former castmates liz gillies and frankie grande during those grammys we were we were at ari's whatever name drop but then but watching her win like ari burst to tears yeah like when victoria won the grammy it was just like everyone liz and frankie just everyone was just like this they were just turning to me being like you have no idea no idea this girl deserves it more than anybody so yeah so when we she was on the fifth harmony tour that i was on too and just to see how humble she was she was grateful for the opportunity just kind of doing her thing.

Speaker 1 I think she had written for them or was working with them. And, and I'll never forget, you know, just her, how she just had a fan on her, just like a fan blowing her hair.

Speaker 1 And she learned how to do all the things behind the scenes. And it's just truly the best story ever.

Speaker 2 As we're talking about her, like, it just makes me excited for Porcelain and for everything that's coming with you because

Speaker 2 Sagittarius Sun, Aquarius Moon. Yes.
And that made sense to me.

Speaker 2 Sag. Sag.
Sag.

Speaker 2 Because it made sense to me me just because you have this thing in the book where you're like, I was always told I was like left of center, that you always have these experimental ideas.

Speaker 2 And that's like, that's the Aquarius, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then I'm also like, I think you're one of those people where it's like, like Charlie popping off recently, it's like, oh, no, the industry had to catch up to that. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 I feel that way with you. Oh, well, thank you.

Speaker 2 I feel that way with you where it's like, now that we're in this like really experimental place with music and with R ⁇ B and with pop and dance and all these other things, it's like, it's like you like, you, you, you, you're going to meet that moment.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I'm so inspired by everything that I see and the people that you just named.

Speaker 1 Like it's, even though I've been doing this a long time, it really fills me with a lot of energy to see, to see that and to keep believing for myself too, that like if you are true to your artistic vision and you are clear about it, like build it and they will come and the right people will come.

Speaker 1 And it can take time, but you know, just to keep that faith is, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a long game.

Speaker 1 It's a long game.

Speaker 2 And we're talking about the culture. I think it's time to ask JoJo the question.

Speaker 2 Yes. I mean, it is.

Speaker 2 I'm just like sitting here, like, and I'm just thinking about like all the times you were like, all I wanted to do was do my vision. And they, they stopped me.

Speaker 2 And I was just thinking like about how authenticity is what people are truly responding to right now. And there's, it's such a great time.

Speaker 2 Like, no one can tell you or anyone now that like, oh, RB isn't what's in. That's not the way we should take pop.
It has to be pop rock. It has to be pop dance or whatever.

Speaker 2 We're in such an eclectic time.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that is a genre, even though.

Speaker 2 that's what i'm saying is it's like it feels like a really ripe time and like speaking of time we'll go back in it and we'll ask you the question joanna levesque what is the culture that made you say culture was for you okay i hope i understand this question correctly it's okay that you don't it's like it's sort of a

Speaker 1 interpretation yeah divas live thank you for has anyone said it

Speaker 2 divas live if they have they haven't said it today okay i know that's right

Speaker 1 that that was everything for me. Seeing like

Speaker 1 Mariah and Shanaya and

Speaker 1 Shaka and Celine and Whitney and all of these women.

Speaker 2 They used to do it every year and then they just stopped. I was like, why did they stop? They have to do it again.

Speaker 1 For me, that was everything for me. It made me feel so alive.
And I was like, oh, I want like a little bit of this one and this one and this one. And I like one day I want to be like that.

Speaker 2 Talk about genres all coming together. I mean, they represented everybody.
Yeah. I would love to.

Speaker 1 Like Bonnie Wright there. Like, you know, it's just, yeah, so cool.
And I feel like now would be a great time to bring that back.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 1 they did something.

Speaker 1 I did like a Divas Live Christmas thing a few years ago, and that was, that was sick. But really, the heyday was in the late 90s.
That's when I was a little cherub. Yes.

Speaker 1 Sitting and putting in my VHS tape and taping it and watching it back over and over again. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, that was the, that was truly the moment.
I remember it was like the first one they ever did. Mariah came out first and she did, I think,

Speaker 2 My All

Speaker 2 and then Make It Happen.

Speaker 2 If you believe it is on the album,

Speaker 2 you know I saw it on your playlist for the album. Make it happen.

Speaker 2 For the book, I mean. Like, Make It Happen was on your.

Speaker 1 You'd be knowing.

Speaker 2 You'd be looking. I don't know how many times I have to tell you I'm a fan.

Speaker 2 I love you. I love you back.

Speaker 2 I've loved you from jump. Like, I mean, like, but I get.

Speaker 2 And also, calling back to her book, she talks about, you know, she has such a relationship with that song because it was truly a documentation of where she was at, like hitting the pavement.

Speaker 2 And you know, that's why she included it that night. She said, What?

Speaker 1 Not more than three short years ago, I was abandoned and alone, and alone. Without a penny to my name, so very young and so afraid.
I took the shoes. I kept the shoes apart.

Speaker 2 On my feet sometimes, I couldn't even eat.

Speaker 1 I often cried myself to sleep, so I had to keep on going.

Speaker 2 Never knowing if I could take it, if I could make it through the night.

Speaker 2 Mama, she is preaching. And then at the end, she is wailing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Don't come back out.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I hate like all the instruments. It's just like the drum.
It's just percussion, but like every roaring.

Speaker 2 She's just roaring. Just because she's because she is preaching.

Speaker 1 She is preaching. Me as like a six-year-old girl was like just, I don't know why I needed that injected into my veins in that way, but yeah.

Speaker 2 But D. Va's Live was like giving you a fucking buffet.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? That's what we need to bring back. It's like, get get all of them on the same stage.
And you want to know what too? It created iconic moments in the culture,

Speaker 2 such as Celine and Aretha doing their sing-off at the end, which I know is controversial amongst the girls. Like Mariah, like, you know, feels some way about it, I think.

Speaker 1 But, like, who won that, though? Was it?

Speaker 2 I don't think we can confidently say there was a winner.

Speaker 1 I hear you, but like,

Speaker 1 wasn't one of them kind of like just unaffected by it?

Speaker 1 Some were playing.

Speaker 2 I think Celine was just in playful mode. Okay.

Speaker 1 Which, which I love her so much

Speaker 2 for that but then you could see some other ladies were like in reverent mode like mariah truly was in reverent mode reverent mode she was like you don't go up to aretha and challenge and that's how i feel right and but celine i think maybe because like Celine maybe culturally didn't come up in a place of like she's Canadian

Speaker 2 and things like a different genre I guess you could say and then like so but I think like it was just funny to hear about later like that Mariah felt like that that was like

Speaker 2 let aretha yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah let her have the moment she is the queen of cells she is why we're here in fact they built that night around her right period they had to turn all the ac's off this is an iconic thing did you know about this no she will not sing with air conditioning and so the air conditioning was turned off i mean good it was very hot good for the queen and now you can see in the why everyone's like the footage of the night everyone has their their playbills going like this like as if it was church if you want another memoir to read her

Speaker 1 it was written by Dave Ritz, and he interviewed her over years. And it's Aretha's memoir.
It is so good, really interesting. I had no idea what her childhood was like.

Speaker 1 And her father was a creep, a famous pastor, mad creepy, but really amazing, especially if you guys love Aretha.

Speaker 2 Were you like researching a lot of other memoirs?

Speaker 1 I was reading a lot of memoirs in the past couple of years when I was thinking about writing one. I'm like, let me just get this all in my brain so I can see.

Speaker 2 You must have read Mariah's. Yes.
It's truly.

Speaker 1 I mean, and her audiobook is really what it's like. Oh, God.

Speaker 2 Are you doing yours? Of course you are. Of course I am.
And we better hear you sing.

Speaker 1 I still don't know if legally they were able to clear with the publishing.

Speaker 1 I just cracked my hand on here.

Speaker 2 Can I hear some more?

Speaker 1 I kind of go.

Speaker 2 Ooh, I can hear that too. ASMR.

Speaker 1 Satisfaction.

Speaker 2 Very satisfying.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I hope that they were able to get clearance because I did sing the words and the stuff. So we'll see.

Speaker 2 Oh, we hope.

Speaker 2 That would be good. I mean, did you have emotional moments reading it? Was there parts that were very difficult to get through? Yeah.

Speaker 1 so i i did it over a course of like five days it was like five hours a day for five days yeah that's a lot it was cool it was cool i'm glad i couldn't have let it go down with anybody else reading it that'd have been so weird i have a pretty nice speaking voice i felt like i could do it so we love hearing your voice in any capacity but but so in terms of like the divas live of it all we have to know if there's five today

Speaker 2 It's really hard. And that's the thing is there has to be, I guess it's like, you have to build it around Beyonce.

Speaker 1 Right. Right.
You have to build it around Beyonce. Ariana.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Beyonce, Ariana.
I want to see you. Adele.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Maybe.

Speaker 1 Adele.

Speaker 2 I always put Kelly out there. Kelly Carson.
Kelly Carson can sing.

Speaker 1 There's only one left.

Speaker 1 Now I need a country person.

Speaker 2 Oh, if we might Carrie.

Speaker 2 I suppose it's Carrie. She certainly can sing like a motherfucker.
Yeah, she can in those legs. Yeah,

Speaker 2 I have a Barrierist trainer who I literally have to stop working out every time because he goes, After this, you're going to be looking like Carrie Underwood. And it's just the gayest.

Speaker 2 Shout out to Kyle Kay. I mean, Kyle Kay has now become a celebrity on the podcast.
He used to be on. Kyle Kay's on.

Speaker 2 But literally, he always is saying, after this, our thighs are going to look like Carrie Underwood. And I have to put my waist down because I'm like, you are so gay.
It's the best.

Speaker 2 Because no one gets it.

Speaker 1 How do you not?

Speaker 2 Doesn't everybody know that it's just the best legs I've ever seen?

Speaker 2 Is that like factotum? She really shows them off on the album covers. Those games.
Okay, she can be in Deep as Live.

Speaker 2 Yay!

Speaker 2 You just cast that like in two seconds.

Speaker 1 I mean, you starting with Beyonce and then me following up with Ari and then Adele. I mean, from there,

Speaker 2 we haven't even said the words.

Speaker 2 Jennifer Hudson, though. Jennifer Hudson, yes.
Jennifer Hudson. Yes.
You know who also, I mean,

Speaker 2 Miss Renee rap. We love Renee.

Speaker 1 Oh, love Renee.

Speaker 2 Kills it.

Speaker 1 There's so many.

Speaker 2 There's just so many. And isn't that amazing? Is it just like a good time? It's a really good time.

Speaker 2 yeah like yeah also like you have tenashe on good to know yeah come on

Speaker 1 watching her moment now like i really feel like that's the song of the summer oh yeah nasty yeah okay but but i know it's a controversial topic of what is the song people this year it's harder than hard we had a really good summer i mean espresso for me it's between espresso and nasty

Speaker 2 i think we have to give it to espresso just because of the ubiquity and the fact that it announced sabrina carpenter in this way that it feels like we're never going back.

Speaker 2 Now we're in a world where Sabrina is in it. Yeah.
And it feels like espresso was the most... Espresso, nasty.
Good luck, babe. Good luck, babe.
Birds of a feather. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like there, I mean, it was a great summer. Like, this is like, there's a groundswell happening in music right now.
And, like, there's room for everything. And, like,

Speaker 2 fuck. Like, I don't know.
Like, it's exciting. Yeah.
And, like, it's just really exciting that you're, you're putting out. When do you think we'll get it?

Speaker 1 I think really soon.

Speaker 2 You think you want to clear moulan rouge and then maybe put it out or you want to like that's what i'm thinking give myself a little yeah let her cook a little

Speaker 1 bit you know but yeah i've been sitting on this this song for a little bit and just wanting to like make sure i got my business in order so it so it can come out and do the thing and yeah yeah i'm i'm eager are you is it indie now like or just still on your your

Speaker 1 clover it's on clover a little distro situation and it's it's cool it's different it's like i respect so much how tenashe has rolled it out when you're bringing on people and you're doing it independent, but you, it's, it's not for the faint of hearts.

Speaker 2 Actually a lot to learn from doing it independent.

Speaker 2 I want to pick your brain after this, actually.

Speaker 1 Yeah, please do. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But anyway,

Speaker 2 can you give us some, if you had to describe the new music in three words?

Speaker 1 Flirting with pop

Speaker 1 is three words.

Speaker 2 Perfect. Flirting with bad pop.
Flirting with pop is still R and B is really bad. Delicious little hooks.
Oh, yeah. But there's nothing like pop RB music.
There's nothing like it.

Speaker 2 It's why I've loved you so much.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just love people who really fucking mean what they're singing. And pop music is not trash.
Pop music actually is very powerful because it gets in people's ears. And when you have a meaningful

Speaker 2 demure, meaning, like, what is it called? Mindful?

Speaker 2 If we have a mindful singer

Speaker 2 doing pop music, that's why Sabrina, Olivia, Rodrigo, that's why these girls are killing it. I totally agree.
Yeah. Because they mean what they're singing.
Yeah. And imagine that.
Feel it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Imagine that.

Speaker 1 And they're songwriters. Yeah.
And they are, whether they're writing it themselves or collaborating, doesn't matter. These are their stories, and that's why they connect.

Speaker 1 And there's no way to like whatever labels they're assigned to are so lucky to have them because you can't fabricate that. No, you can't.
They are real. They are authentic, these girls.
Chapel, too.

Speaker 1 I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Chapel Rowan is a beast. Beast.
Like that bridge on Good Luck, Babe, we haven't seen a bridge like that since disaster.

Speaker 1 Guys, I'm going to be honest with you, this is embarrassing, but like I am not deep into the chapel canon.

Speaker 2 I don't know the world.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I need to give it time.
Sure, sure.

Speaker 2 Take it at your

Speaker 1 best. I'm going to dive in tomorrow when I'm at the theater.
I'm going to listen. I'm going to think of you both.

Speaker 2 Think of us.

Speaker 2 Send us a text. I will.
Because. There's real writing on there and she's got a beautiful voice.

Speaker 2 I remember, so we were just talking the other day about like when i first went to go see her at the fonda and she she had this unbelievable voice and her energy on stage the way i i described it was like annie lennox meets kesha

Speaker 2 like this like

Speaker 2 super like conceptual like weird drag persona that's like very fun forward but this voice from like someplace else yeah

Speaker 2 like channeling something where I feel like you were channeling something like I feel like I'm pitching to her

Speaker 2 you're like this

Speaker 2 like you're at the boardroom The CEO. Well, my pinstripe pants are evolving.
Thanksgiving. That's giving exactly.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Thanksgiving exact.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm sold on her. You don't need to do it.
No, no, no. Do you get tomorrow?

Speaker 2 You know? This may make or break her.

Speaker 2 I have to ask you about Iceland. You were about going to Iceland.

Speaker 2 I went to work there, and one of my favorite experiences of my life. Really?

Speaker 1 Where did you?

Speaker 2 We only

Speaker 2 went to Blue Lagoon, which is iconic. Yeah.
I went to Sky Lagoon.

Speaker 1 Okay, I was looking at that one too.

Speaker 2 Really good if you go again. I just think, what a beautiful place.

Speaker 1 Didn't it feel like Mars?

Speaker 2 Felt like Mars. Yeah, you feel like you're on another planet.
The nature is like so unbelievable. Like, that's where they shot like interstellar and stuff.

Speaker 2 It's like, where can we go in the world that makes it seem like an animal? Underrated film, by the way.

Speaker 2 Really underrated film. Anyway, that's a good edible on your day off watch.

Speaker 2 Do you still fuck with weed?

Speaker 1 No, it scares me right now.

Speaker 2 It scares you right now.

Speaker 1 It's not the season for me, for us.

Speaker 2 I get you.

Speaker 1 For marijuana. Totally.

Speaker 2 See, and we were just talking about how we both need to take a step back because we're actually our proper stoners. But the thing is, I wish I could be.

Speaker 2 I know. Sometimes, though, like

Speaker 2 just sitting in front of Interstellar, like it really was. And that's a movie I sob.
Oh my God. What movie makes you cry the hardest?

Speaker 1 Interstellar, I definitely cried for that too.

Speaker 2 Arrival. Have you seen that one? No, I haven't seen that.

Speaker 2 I haven't seen that. First of all, Amy Adams is that girl, and no one can ever say anything to me because she's deserved an Oscar several times.
Arrival is her best performance.

Speaker 2 It's just, it's so beautiful when you really get to what it's about. Like, it's one of those movies that's like, is it about space too? So it's an alien movie.
It's an alien encounter movie.

Speaker 2 She plays someone who is like a linguistics professor who they bring in to communicate with these aliens who they don't know what the aliens want. And they speak in like circular.

Speaker 2 Oh, I already have chills. I don't know why that's movie.
So you find out that their concept of time is very different. And that speaks to a situation that she goes through.

Speaker 2 And it is an absolutely beautiful message. And it is one of the the great films that we have.
The Evil Neuve, who did the Dune films, directed it. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Visually, very beautiful, very brand new in terms of like sci-fi. Yeah, like just the way that the creatures are designed.
Like, I thought it was.

Speaker 1 You do get to see the creatures.

Speaker 2 You do. You intimately see them.
It's not one. Did you really see them? Yes.

Speaker 2 Like a big bro, little bro situation.

Speaker 2 They made me shoot a load to heaven. Jesus.
Like, the video producer doesn't know me. And so I feel like

Speaker 2 he just understood who I was in a moment. And that's sort of, that's just going to die.
Now he's camera.

Speaker 2 I tend to make straight men very giggly when they realize my candor. Hello.
Hello.

Speaker 2 Who decides what you can do? Who gets to decide what you're capable of? Your boss? Your friends? Some stranger on the internet? No, no, and absolutely no. You decide.
Only you.

Speaker 2 Ford shares that belief. It's like engineered into their vehicles.
An F-150 is all steel, sweat, and dreams. Right? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 A Ford Bronco is built for adventure, but you've got to get behind the wheel. Can you? Yeah, you can, but you have to first.
You have to. And a Mustang, the Mustang that conquers curves.

Speaker 2 You are more capable than you know. Like, for example, I never thought I could parallel park.
I just thought it wasn't something that was going to happen for me in my life.

Speaker 2 And not everyone gets to have every experience, you know?

Speaker 2 But then, suddenly i did a parallel park and i thought wow i'm gonna apply to harvard i didn't get in but i did parallel park sometimes you just need to push what is it that they say whether you think you can or you think you can't you're right ready set

Speaker 2 ford visit ford.com to learn more Two questions. What are you doing right now? And why aren't you on a Virgin Voyages Caribbean cruise? Well, obviously you're listening to us.
Smart use of your time.

Speaker 2 True. But you could also be on a Virgin Voyages Caribbean cruise at the same time.
That's just brilliant time management. Very true.
This gives me an idea. Let's do a quick cruise quiz.
Ready?

Speaker 2 First, cruise dining. Do you prefer a buffet or a curated dining experience with access to 20 distinct restaurants? Curated dining.
Next. Okay, good choice.
That's what Virgin Voyages offers.

Speaker 2 Second question. Would you rather have an overstuffed itinerary or the freedom to explore stunning?

Speaker 2 Oh, I want the freedom to explore stunning Caribbean destinations. Again, I think I see where this quiz is going.
Virgin Voyages is amazing. Yeah, absolutely.
The cruises are kid-free.

Speaker 2 From sunrise yoga to late-night cocktails, every moment is made for grown-up fun. Nothing against kids.
Kids are awesome, but sometimes it's nice to be kid-free.

Speaker 2 And there's so much included value, over $1,000. Right.
Over $1,000 of awesomeness all included. Wi-Fi, soda, top-tier entertainment, over 20 restaurants, and even group fitness classes.

Speaker 2 No hidden fees, no surprise charges. Virgin Voyages gives you the kind of luxury you actually deserve.
And you know what? I deserve luxury. You do, and me too.

Speaker 2 Yes, there's always something happening on board. From wellness-focused sailings to epic holiday voyages, live music, DJs, themed parties, and more.
Boredom doesn't board the ship.

Speaker 2 And there are so many amazing stops. You leave from Miami and sail to places like Grand Cayman, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic.

Speaker 2 Virgin even has their own private beach club in Bibini. And they're adding stops in 2025 and 2026.
Yeah, like Aruba, St. Lucia, and Curaçao.
But it's not all go, go, go.

Speaker 2 Right, you can totally go into relaxation mode too. Your cabin is a full-on sanctuary.
Private terrace, ocean views, and their signature red hammock just waiting for you to swing.

Speaker 2 Oh, and did I mention Virgin Voyages is launching a new ship, the Brilliant Lady? Brilliant name, by the way. She's bigger, bolder, and packed with even more Virgin Wow Factor.

Speaker 2 Book now at virginvoyages.com or contact your travel advisor. That's virginvoyages.com.
Okay, so you know how the world is a chaotic, swirling ball of total stress right now?

Speaker 2 Well, we have a new Hulu show from Ryan Murphy that will give you the much-needed break from reality. And whether you know it or not, you are already completely obsessed.

Speaker 2 It's called All's Fair, and Ms. Kardashian plays Allura Grant, the most in-demand divorce attorney in Los Angeles.
Get it?

Speaker 2 It's All's Fair, as in All's Fair in Love and War, and she's a divorce attorney. Love it.
Now let's talk ensemble because Allura does not go it alone.

Speaker 2 She breaks off from a crusty male-dominated law firm to start her own legal coven with some absolute forces of nature. Naomi Watts, Niecy Nash Betts, Tiana Taylor, and Glenn Close.

Speaker 2 Yeah, hello, Glenn Close. And of course, you need a villain, so say hello to Sarah Paulson as the nemesis.

Speaker 2 And these ladies are brilliant, complicated, fearless, and when they all come together, nothing can stop them. I'm talking about the lawyers on the show and the actresses playing them, by the way.

Speaker 2 But hey, if you're thinking this will be all courtroom drama and no drama drama, relax. Allura, that's Kim's character, has plenty of twists and turns in her personal life.

Speaker 2 Her professional life crashes into her personal one and uh-oh. So how does this super lawyer fix her own mess? With a little help from her besties, of course.
So this series has it all.

Speaker 2 Scandalous secrets, high-stakes courtroom drama, more shifting alliances than Kim's other shows, some OMG twists and friendships that rise above it all.

Speaker 2 And of course, everything is going to look amazing. It's got some unapologetic glam, a work hard, play-harder lifestyle.
Every scene just sparkles. Everybody makes compromises in their lives.

Speaker 2 Lame men, underpaying jobs. Well, stop.
Just stop. And never settle for anything less than fabulous when it comes to your next streaming obsession.

Speaker 2 All's fair now streaming on Hulu and on Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply, drama guaranteed.

Speaker 2 So, which ones of the boys in Moulin Rouge do you think should date us?

Speaker 1 Oh, I love this question.

Speaker 2 Do you really? Yeah. Oh, my God.
Are you both single? We're both single.

Speaker 1 Do you want me to book you up?

Speaker 2 By the way, can we give it up for this cover? This cover is really good. It came in the mail.
I took it out of the envelope. I was like, I gasped.

Speaker 1 Be honest. Not gasped.

Speaker 2 I gasped.

Speaker 2 You were probably sent a bunch of photos from the shoot. When you saw this, you were like, that's her.
That's it. Let me be honest with you.
I

Speaker 1 did this shoot myself in London. We did a whole other shoot.
It was just me and Ronaldo, who does social stuff. He's worked on, he's been on my team for a long time.
We love you, Ronaldo. Ronaldo.

Speaker 1 And it was just me, him and the photographer in london i did a whole other shoot with my book company hated hated it

Speaker 2 and just went back to this shoot and was like sorry guys i know you just paid for this whole thing but like look at this picture i like this one this is a beautiful photo i was like i've never looked better let's let's let's do that see and also you talk a lot in the book about like you know the way that you have been packaged and the the photos that they've chosen and stuff like that how it's not so stupid yeah just so yeah but like you know what that is empowering because you're like i'm gonna tell my story i'm also gonna pick the fucking photo.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it just had to be that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Come on. Come on.
Been doing this too long.

Speaker 2 To say, you know, we're over the influence.

Speaker 2 I just love it. I love it so much.
Might it be time for, I don't think so. I think it's time for, I don't think so, honey.
Okay, so we are, we've arrived at that part of the episode where

Speaker 2 we take 60 seconds to rant against something in culture that is bothering us a little bit. Now, today I'm not going to be so cultural.
I'm going to talk about something a little personal.

Speaker 2 And I feel like this episode, I've been very bodily. And that's not going to stop.
Bodily? Bodily? I've been bodily in terms of my vocabulary.

Speaker 2 I've been talking about Big Bro and what he sort of makes my body do.

Speaker 2 I'm going to talk about what's another thing that's happening with my body. Uh-oh.
Campbell.

Speaker 2 Coming out a different end.

Speaker 2 No, stop. This is Matt Rogers.
I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. Why is my one foot all of a sudden bigger than my other foot?

Speaker 2 I swear to God, if someone can explain to me what is happening, please. The other night we were at a wedding, I wore some nice shoes.

Speaker 2 I have these nice boots and I put one foot in one shoe, another foot in another shoe, and I realized the one shoe doesn't fit. Cut to about three weeks ago.

Speaker 2 We're with our stylist getting ready for a thing we're doing. And I put my shoe in one of the...
I'm about to put my foot in one of the shoes. And it's the same thing.

Speaker 2 So now it's not even discriminating on, it's just this pair of shoes. Like maybe something happened to these leather boots.
No, it's my foot. Is it the fact that I'm on a treadmill a lot?

Speaker 2 What is happening to my one foot? Stop it!

Speaker 2 This is about my feet.

Speaker 2 All you foot freaks out there are probably flipping out.

Speaker 2 We can talk. I'm not against it.

Speaker 2 Throw it. Anyway, why is my one foot bigger than the other? Suddenly? I don't think so, honey.
That's one minute. So, does anyone know? Is it an every seven years thing?

Speaker 2 It might be, actually, do you know the answer to this?

Speaker 2 Why just one?

Speaker 2 So there is, I am not a doctor, and I'm not a scientist. You're not?

Speaker 2 Then shut up. I do believe when one side of your body is bigger than the other.
It's like when women are like my one tit.

Speaker 1 And I do have that.

Speaker 2 You have one bigger tit than the other? I've got one bigger tit.

Speaker 1 I need to explore and see which one is bigger.

Speaker 2 I guess it makes sense.

Speaker 2 And I'm literally, as I'm talking right now, I'm realizing my one foot just feels bigger. I also think, you know what I think I have?

Speaker 2 So every single morning when I wake up, the back, like above my my heel feels sore. And when I get up, I'm like, when I walk, I'm like, ooh, ooh, I think I have Achilles tendonitis.

Speaker 2 I think I have that too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, my friggin' Achilles thing is

Speaker 2 feels tender, right? And sore.

Speaker 2 And I, when I was feeling the one, especially on the right, I was like, is there a little bit of a bump here?

Speaker 1 Do we need inserts for our shoes? Is that where we're at in our mid-30s?

Speaker 2 And suddenly you're identifying as mid-30s.

Speaker 1 All it took me was the language.

Speaker 2 Because we're saying words like Achilles tendonitis and

Speaker 2 insoles.

Speaker 2 I think y'all get to go to the podiatrist.

Speaker 1 No, that's T. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 That is T. Foot T.
Foot T.

Speaker 2 I wish my foot was T. My foot is not T.
My body's been kind of T lately. My foot is not T.
Your body is T.

Speaker 2 Stop. Well, just tell any one of those absolutely stacked dancers.

Speaker 2 Actually, to be honest with you,

Speaker 2 I like to them all. Okay.

Speaker 2 The one you talked about. But also, sometimes I'm like, if a guy like that was interested in me, I don't even know if I would know what to do with that.
No, I know. I'm sure I would figure it out.

Speaker 2 But like, wow. Like, I used to say, like, my ideal would be with a Broadway dancer.
And that still holds true. It still holds true, but it's like, it's like a little intimidating.
These men are.

Speaker 2 Let them lead. They know what they're doing.
You know what I mean? Let them lead. You hear that? Let them lead.
Let them lead. It's actually real culture number 19.
Let them lead.

Speaker 2 They know what they're doing.

Speaker 2 Re-Broadway dancers.

Speaker 2 So that's, if anyone out there can tell me why my one foot is suddenly bigger than the other and wasn't always, that would be amazing.

Speaker 2 And yes, I checked the sizing of the shoe and they were the same size. It's not the shoe.
It's not the shoe. You say Laurent, you continue to do wonderful work.
A shoe I was gifted did not buy.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 That wasn't a wealth flex. But so what if it was? So what if it was? I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 Okay. Ready? I'm ready.
This will be Bo and Yang's. I don't think so, honey.
And if I can find my stopwatch,

Speaker 2 wait. Oh, there it is.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I get confused and I go to the calculator one instead of the clock they're similar oh that's an i don't think so honey right there design flaw apple are you listening okay this is the one yang's i don't think so honey his time starts now i don't think so honey why is women's tennis best out of three and men's tennis best out of five that i just learned that this weekend after going to the open that doesn't make any sense to me i'm gonna i want to see the women play a little longer if anything But if we're striving for gender parity, then I think we might as well just make it the same rules.

Speaker 2 Everything else is the same. Why could the number of sets be the same? I cannot believe what I was seeing.
I was seeing Pagula go against Switech.

Speaker 2 Switech? Okay, that was a thrilling game. And then that ended much too soon.
And then I guess I had to see Mr. Sinner go up against

Speaker 2 what's his favorite? Taylor Fritz. Not Taylor Fritz.
At the quarterfinal,

Speaker 2 it was someone else. But I was just like, I think I would have preferred to watch the women play longer.
I'm a new tennis. I get it now.
15 seconds. I lost so much time in my life not standing tennis.

Speaker 2 And now I finally do.

Speaker 2 Sports are back, y'all i mean this olympics really lit a fire under my ass now i'm like i'm i'm watching putting it on every day i'm doing little tours around the house i'm putting the game on that's what i'm gonna this is our big sports year putting the game on

Speaker 1 to see it for you and i want to put the game on too yes when i saw challengers that's when i first of all round of applause so good so hot so loved it but then i started taking tennis lessons because i'm like i want a tennis bay i think that's that's a sexy thing i did watch none of the U.S.

Speaker 1 Open, nor did I go. It's not okay.
And it needs to change next year.

Speaker 2 I didn't watch any either, except when we went to the men's final, and I didn't even know who Taylor Fritz was. Who is Taylor Fritz?

Speaker 2 He, in fact, competed in the final of the U.S. men's open.

Speaker 1 I've been thinking about this all night long.

Speaker 2 Okay, this is really good. Okay, so this is Joe's, I don't think so, honey.
Joanna Jojo Levesque, her time starts now.

Speaker 1 I don't think so, honey. Why do you say, I don't know if either of you say it like this, important.

Speaker 1 When did people start doing it like that? Is this a Kardashian speak and like the slowing down and the everything up? Also, do I speak like this now?

Speaker 1 Like people speaking like they're from this region that doesn't exist or like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It's like it no longer, and I think it's because of, I think it's LA, not LA's fault, but it is probably keeping up with the Kardashians' fault, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 The slow speak, the, and I'm sorry if I don't, I don't know who speaks this way, but I started seeing it. It reminds me of like the demure and stuff like that, but like importance.

Speaker 1 When did we start breaking words apart like this? It's beautiful. I like it.
It makes me feel good and a little ASMR and tingly.

Speaker 2 15 seconds.

Speaker 1 But what inspired us to speak this way? Yes.

Speaker 1 And also, like, it's interesting when I have to ask people, like, where are you from? Because you just sound like a Kardashian.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So, how am I going to fill up these last three seconds? Do I sound like this too? Am I aware of what I sound like?

Speaker 2 Anyway, that's one minute. You are, you've really pinpointed something that has bothered me so much.
And this is why it's a great, I don't think so, honey, because I've never said it out loud.

Speaker 2 There are people who be like, importent.

Speaker 2 Important. Yeah.
They will hit all the, and sometimes I'm like, I don't know. Is it like an accent?

Speaker 2 Is there just like, is there a regionalism where I don't want to like be like, why are you saying it like that? But it's enough people now where I'm like, what's happening?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a trend, I think. Can you both, can you both say the word as you would say it? Important.

Speaker 1 Important. Okay.
And I don't think that's correct.

Speaker 2 I think that is correct. First of all, they're going to be like,

Speaker 2 not a mask hole in a long island. They're taught us how to talk.
Important. Important.
It's important. Important.
You know, I've been called out because I say picture like picture.

Speaker 2 A picture. And I say remember like member.

Speaker 1 How do you say museum? Do I say it weird?

Speaker 2 That was weird. You actually say it in the chicest way.
Museum. Museum.
Museum. Museum.
Like it's Shazam. Museum.
Museum.

Speaker 1 How do you say it? Museum. Museum.
Museum.

Speaker 2 But that's just me. Museum.
Museum.

Speaker 2 How do you say it? Aquarium? How do you say the thing above a house?

Speaker 2 A roof.

Speaker 1 Okay. But my granddad used to say a rough.
Rough.

Speaker 2 But I say a rum.

Speaker 2 I say a rum. A rum.
Yeah, I say, I'm going to my room.

Speaker 2 I'm going to my room. This room.
How do you say the video game character that wears a red hat? Mario? Thank you. Mario.
Mario. He's Mario.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I'm Long Island. I am.

Speaker 2 Like, that's the thing is, if I ever get a a little angry or a little drunk, he comes out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, my Boston self comes out and it's like, I've lived in LA a long time, but when I get drunk or angry, it's coming out.

Speaker 2 You absolutely said wicked earlier. Yeah.
And you weren't talking about

Speaker 2 November 2024 film.

Speaker 2 Are you excited?

Speaker 1 Oh, my God, am I excited.

Speaker 2 Have you seen that on Broadway? No.

Speaker 1 I saw it in the West End years ago. So I have seen it.

Speaker 2 You just saw it in the West End. I saw it.

Speaker 2 So funny.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. Funny because they really dig in.
in because they speak in British accents in that show. Right.
It's so funny. Just to like, just the difference is so popula.

Speaker 2 It's like, oh, yeah, sure, that works. I love it.
I love it. You know, there's been so the wicked trailers have come out.

Speaker 2 And I want to say, if you want to see, and this is, I'm just saying it. The best wicked trailer yet is the Italian Wicked Trailer.
Really? You told me this the other night. Why? I got to watch it.

Speaker 2 I don't know why internationally trailers are different than domestic trailers, but for some reason they will send out different versions of different cuts of different cuts of entire trailers i guess to market the film differently i think my opinion and i don't know this american audiences don't want to know that it's a musical well american we are the student the studios don't like to tell people that it's a musical because they believe if audiences know something is a musical they won't come so a lot of times they try to make the movie look like a marvel movie or like you know

Speaker 1 they tried to hide that the mean girls reboot was a musical yes they did no awareness until like later.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so and then it was Falon, which is, in fact, the reason it existed is because there was the musical on Broadway and then it was this.

Speaker 2 But they, what they will do, I think, or what they're doing with the wicked trailer is I think they assume that maybe a lot of people in America know the story.

Speaker 2 And so they're just building it around big set pieces and like trying to capitalize on the fact that this is a story about two women who support each other.

Speaker 2 Whereas like the Italian trailer kind of tells the story a little bit more about the fact that they are actually at odds throughout most of it. Because you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like, I think there's just something more international happening with the way they're trying to get the story across. Okay.

Speaker 2 And then the American trailer, in my opinion, is more capitalizing on, look at how beautiful this looks. These are the stars.
You know, everyone gets sort of a little moment.

Speaker 2 Whereas like the other trailer is like, this is the narrative that you'll be seeing unfold. So interesting.

Speaker 2 Depending on what I guess people need to decide if they're going to buy a ticket, which I don't know what's in dispute. It's wicked.

Speaker 1 Like, do you speak Italian or how do you know like what's being narrated as far as the trailer? Or you just know from the way they're piecing it together.

Speaker 2 Subtitles are amazing things.

Speaker 1 Subtitles. Wow.
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 Tessie roller coaster number 100. Subtitles are an amazing thing.

Speaker 1 I'm 150 years old. I'm not familiar with that.

Speaker 2 Do you, but do you? No, but if you're 150, then do you ever, like, when you're watching TV, do you do the subtitles?

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 1 my vision is impaired because I'm in my mid-30s. So I need the help I can.

Speaker 2 What a journey we've been on this episode.

Speaker 1 The whole bridge that I crossed to accept

Speaker 2 33, I'm in a huge diet. You wouldn't accept it, and now you've identified as elderly.
Full acceptance, yeah. Come in, the water's warm.
This episode has aged you. It really has.

Speaker 2 But in a beautiful way. Thank you.
You've told your story.

Speaker 2 Not just here on the episode, but in this amazing book. September 17th, over the influence.
Come on. What a go up.
This is really, you did such an amazing job.

Speaker 2 And what I will say is, I know you didn't use a ghostwriter, which had to be scary and like

Speaker 2 and a lot, but I will say, what an amazing choice because you know this came from you.

Speaker 2 And in that way, it's a real page turner because you, there's no pretense and there's no dilly dallying and there's no,

Speaker 2 obviously there's editing, but there's no editing. You know what I'm saying? Is it's like, this is, this is, feels like what happened.

Speaker 2 And I just really fucking respect you even more than I already did because of how beautifully you told this. And I thank you for it.

Speaker 1 Thank you you for gassing me up this whole episode, you guys. I am about to go out and take over the world.

Speaker 2 Come on, I love y'all. Thank you.
They call us

Speaker 2 two

Speaker 2 molly pills. Molly pills.

Speaker 1 They call you Molly Pills.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 We're just trying to give ourselves a bunch of people. I was trying to deflect a compliment and I ended up being silly.
But the fact is, we fucking love you.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I adore you.
I'm honored to be sitting on this

Speaker 1 burnt orange.

Speaker 2 Velvet. Velvet.
Look,

Speaker 2 it's not the set of Boulogne Rouge, okay?

Speaker 1 Guys, I'm a fucking lost cult. I am so excited.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. We love you so much.
We simply adore, and the fact is, we end every episode with a song.

Speaker 2 It's just a little too rare. A little two rolls and a kid went.

Speaker 2 You know, all the right things to say.

Speaker 1 You know, it's just too little too late.

Speaker 2 We love it. We sure did.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Love Culturatus is a production by Will Farrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Executive produced by Anna Hosnier and Hans Sani.

Speaker 2 Produced by Becca Ramos. Edited and mixed by Doug Babe and Monique Laborde.
And our music is by Henry Kaberski.

Speaker 2 Get ready for your next TV obsession, All's Fair.

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I'm stressed. I got invited to a Friendsgiving, and now there's the big question of what to bring.
Well, just bring a bottle of Casamigos. Oh, Casamigos, of course.

Speaker 2 Nothing brings people together like a batch of Casamigos margaritas. A Casamigos margarita really is the perfect cocktail.
Plus, Casamigos goes with everything. Turkey, stuffing, mac and cheese.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was thinking more cranberry juice or ginger beer, but that works too. Well, you know, the iconic rule of culture number 743.
Anything goes with my Casamigos.

Speaker 2 This Friendsgiving, you know what everyone will be grateful for? Casamigos? I was going to say you and Casamigos. Oh,

Speaker 2 let's keep it in that order. Please drink responsibly.
Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigo Stequila, 40% alcohol by volume.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.