"For The Night" (w/ Charli XCX)

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This episode is supported by FX's

Dying for Sex, starring Michelle

Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired

by a true story, this series follows

Molly, who after receiving a terminal

cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her

husband and explore the full breadth

of her sexual desires. She gets the

courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX is dying for sex.
All episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1.
Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer.

He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott

and the son he'd never known.

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2

starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Taste and feel the difference. Look, Matt.
Oh, I see. Wow.
Bowen, look over there. Wow.
Is that culture? Yes. Las Culturistas.
Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling.

We're off to the races here today.

We've ate some Pret.

British culture.

British culture.

More to come.

I will say, I'm a little upset about how much almond milk is in this.

Okay, if the cameras are picking this up, listeners at home who can't see this,

this is Dunkin' Donuts level chicanery. It's milk with a little bit of iced coffee in it.
I was going to use the word chicanery too for the record. And I just want to say, I wouldn't even want to walk down the street and people think that I have to do coffee like this.
This is just more almond milk than anything. Can I get an amen up in here in the words of RuPaul? This is just...
There's also like a weird pallid color to it. It doesn't have what I would call a healthy looking color.
And you guys all feel me out there. You want coffee, not milk.
It looks like chocolate milk. Thank you, Becca.
It looks like chocolate milk, I was going to say. Nesquik rabbit ran amok.
Last I checked, I wasn't eight years old in my basement. Bitch.
Where I would drink chocolate milk on the regular. What's your merch story, Matt? Just with like an artist that you love.
My merch story? I'm wearing merch. I'm being vulnerable.
I'm wearing merch right now. Bowen is in Charlie merch.
And by the way, it's very cute merch, which I say is a compliment to you, the wearer, and you, the seller. My merch story is I'm also currently wearing merch.
For driveway dolls. This is Focus Features sent us this merch.
And I said, that's cute. And I will wear it on the thing.
I didn't know they were going to do this. They sent it to us.
And after seeing the movie Challengers, I thought threesome culture is sort of in. I do think it's the year of the threesome.
Of MMF. Of MMF threesome.
Yep. And so I'm just sort of encouraging that.
Yeah. Here on the podcast.
I hope you receive. Who knows what happens today during the episode? I don't think it will be an MMF threesome.

We've got MMF here.

Now,

would you say that like,

if between,

between,

let's say like,

MMF,

two dicks,

one vag,

right?

Sure, sure.

Let's just go in with that parameter.

Yeah.

I might get so like,

dick confused

that I'm like,

yeah,

of course there's a vagina

in the mix.

Listen,

all I know is,

it's not shocking to me.

You can't think about it too hard.

I think when it comes to threesome

to me. You can't think about it too hard.
I think when it comes to threesomes, you have to just take it moment by moment. Yeah, yeah.
I've had two in my life. Uh-huh.
And getting out of my way was important. No, I've had three.
So the first one, I was very in my own way the entire time. Yep.
And I was like, I am doing this with more than one person. And I'm,

it's a little bit of a brain teaser.

And then the second you just let that go and you have a wonderful time.

You know what happened to me the first time?

What?

I was facing forward,

facing someone.

Great.

True North.

And it was true.

And then jump scare behind me.

Literally like,

Oh,

like someone,

someone stuck it in.

Not,

they didn't stick it in.

They just kind of,

kind of nestled behind me.

And I was like,

Oh,

I feel like I'm, I forgot. The crazy thing is when you're facing True North and sort of giving that, aka you're a giving partner and then all of a sudden you feel the third kind of really come through the back and you're like, I'm not in that zone right now.
I need to know. So let's just all communicate and take it moment by moment, everyone.

And that's sort of our treatise.

Watch the challengers if you want a little educational video.

But again, you never see any threesome sax and challengers.

You don't see any penetration.

Anyway.

What's penetrated me is the new album.

It's a really penetrative album.

Emotionally penetrative?

Obviously, sonically and physically penetrative. In the best way, in a way that I invite and I'm open wide for.
Angels, if you're listening, this might be offensive to the guests. If you mourn XCX world the way that some of us out here do, this album is going to give you everything you want and more.
You're about to party. We're about to party.
But you're also about to feel, and this is what I love about our guest, and it's just so sort of singular and iconic, is what I love is emotional pop music. And you always get our guest's perspective, her POV.
It's always interesting and specific, no matter what it is. I was telling Bowen, when we were just at Pret-a-Manger, where we have all of our good conversations, a huge fan of our guest ballads you're a ballad girl like I'm a ballad girl and like you give that and I'm just so excited the new album Brat is coming out June 7th June 7th she's doing the Brat tour and then she's going to the Sweat tour with Troye Sivan and then she's going back to the Brat tour Troye Sivan yeah so she's doing Brat Sweat Brat why are you laughing? it's just so funny that I'm just sat here in silence.
That you're just sitting there. I'm like, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to.
Well, don't you worry. I'm going to bring you in.
One, two, three. Charlie X, the X.
That was so fun. Just listening to you guys gab away.
We're gabbers. We can say the same thing about what you gab and sing about on your records.
We're having fun too. Oh, good.
You are the most fun. You do truly intrinsically understand how to make us have fun.
Oh, that's so nice. We were having fun on the way in.
You've got a big day. Got a big day.
We're recording this. We're going to release it closer to the album release, but you're going on Seth with Troy.
Yeah. And then Watch What Happens Live also with Troy.
Are you on with the housewife? Do you know? No, I'm so sad about that. You're just on solo? No, it's another man.
Okay. I couldn't tell you who it is.
Yeah, exactly. And I love that we will find out later who it is when the episode airs.
And we'll be like, oh, that's who. And I'll be like, I love you.
I love you. I'm such a fan.
Summer House, Martha's Vineyard. I love that show.
Exactly, exactly.

No, I don't know.

I think his name's Joe.

Joe.

Joe Biden.

He sounds great. Joe Biden.

It's you and Joe Biden.

And honestly, he's going to ask you to be VP.

Yeah, it's going to be amazing.

He's going to really burn it down.

Yeah.

We were talking here about, last time you were on, you were not as versed in the Bravo

verse.

True. And now you are all in on Salt Lake City.
Exactly. And you asked us a really important question, which you want to ask us again.
Yeah, my question for you both is are you pro Monica or anti Monica? Anti, sorry. No, no, no, that's okay.
We, the way we answered was. Anti Monica.
We auntie monica we we were don't make fun of our our guests no i say i say auntie as well we were so my answer was in the beginning when it all went down we were very anti we were like get her off like like none of the women want to film with her like she is not allowed anywhere near them and then now that they announced that she is no longer there we're like oh it's gonna miss something it's a travesty my thing is like I just want to watch a show where everyone speaks to each other because it gets boring when you have a cast that's like I'm not talking to her like you'll see once you branch out to other franchises it's like when a cast is like not operating as a group, it's bad. And they were also scorched earth with Monica at the end, unwilling to speak to her.
Can you give thoughts on Mary Cosby from your Charlie perspective? I mean, this woman is just... She's on the album.
She's going to be on a cast. Yeah.
The full remix record is just her. It's just Mary.
She is, I mean, I don't even know where you begin. It's like, I love her and I hate her.
Sure. But do we all agree? I love her and I hate her.
You love her and I hate her? No, that's totally fair. My friend saw her at Sunset Tower.
Oh, wow. Sheik, sheik place.
And apparently she was really rude to her. Oh, that tracks 100 million percent.
She was like, my friend was like, oh, can I sit here at the bar?

And she was like, no.

And then my friend was like, do you have someone coming?

And she was like, yeah.

And then obviously no one came.

And it was just for her bag.

Oh my God, Mary.

But then at the same time, I'm like, legend.

Yeah, legend.

Let her do what she wants.

The inbred comment?

I was going to say, and then she called your friend inbred or something.

I'm sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the inbred comment? Yeah.
I was going to say and then she called your friend inbred or something. I'm sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the inbred comment

followed up with

Heather asking her

did you really call me inbred

and she goes

I did.

I did.

I guess.

Iconic.

Yeah, you dumb bitch.

I did.

Do you realize I think I'm inbred?

I do.

I do.

And then when they like

went through it at the reunion too

it was so bizarre

because Heather was kind of

just like threw up her hands

and was like listen

I respect that she said it

she speaks her truth

it's like can you please

just swing one fist

Heather

come on

do we all agree though

they talk to her like

she's five years old

either she's a mental patient

which she might be

and like

she's a fiver

they're afraid of her

they're afraid

I mean she gets a lot

of free passes

yeah

you know

because well

that was funny

when she was on

Watch What Happens Live

like they asked her a question

like why did you come back? And she fully just goes, to help you guys out. And I said, not a lie.
But again, I mean, love. Love.
Because you want to know why there's, like, not a thirsty bone in her body or, like, a bothered bone in her body because you can tell she doesn't really get it.

She's just like going to show up and say whatever the

fuck it is. The rumor is now

that she called Lisa Barlow's

youngest son the R word.

That is the rumor that's happening for next season.

Thoughts on that.

You don't have to read that.

I see. I can imagine

it happening.

I'm fascinated by her wardrobe yes and the choices and the choices many colors many patterns it's like she got dressed in the dark five times in a row yeah yeah yeah and then she just went out with all of it on and isn't it funny that she's like the fashion girl she's the fashion girl I mean the thing is she's gonna come for us so are you ready like if she hears this she's this, she's coming for us. I wonder.
I don't think she cares. I don't think she cares what we think.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe.
That would be a chic feud for you though. Like a really good.
Charlie XTX and Mary M. Cosby.
That's what no one would ever see coming. No, it would be so good.
It would be so good. I'm pro Monica.
You're pro Monica. That's great.
I just want to pivot back to that i'm pro monica and you said to us you know what she did wasn't really that bad and we agree but it would be like if troy ran a troll account for like an anti charlie troy like everyone leave after my set but is was she okay here's the thing i'm pretty like flag in the sand on like I'm pro Monica yeah but I haven't actually done much research into reality so I'm basing that on nothing yeah but I've heard from friends who I trust dearly that she wasn't really like talking shit about the women yeah so she was it was really more of a Jen Shaw thing. And obviously that was her narrative on the show, which I was a little bit like, okay.
But you know, God love her. But I was like, surely she's using that a little bit.
But my reliable friends say that that was the case, that she wasn't really talking about the women. I believe you're reliable friends.
So then I'm just like,

also I'm like, guys, you're on Housewives.

Yeah, you know what it was though? You know?

She calling Kessel Black.

100%.

She ran out of steam

when it came to defending herself and explaining it.

Like I felt like she sort of like

threw up the white flag as it were

when it was go time.

It was like, okay, this is the reunion.

Explain what it was and what exonerates you about this and it felt like she kind of just took it because she got confused and started to lean into the villain narrative right thinking that's what people would want when it was like no what you want is to stay on the show and they won't film with you unless you can explain yourself get them on board and then I think she was like gearing up to bring out

that burn book prop

like she was like

prop focused

ooh that was rough and a half

the burn book didn't land

no

no

that all went a bit awry

didn't it

I think so

yeah

you've got a Mean Girls track

on your album

I have

I love this song

love it

oh thank you

because it really is for that girl

thank you

and for gays that are

trying to be that girl that day

yeah

you know what's interesting

about that song

is

I'm gonna take these off

Thank you. Because it really is for that girl.
Thank you. And for gays that are trying to be that girl that day.

Yeah.

You know what's interesting about that song is,

I'm going to take these off.

Do I have marks there? No, you don't.

Okay, excellent.

So the thing is about the Mean Girls song on my album

is that it's kind of like...

A fascination with women like that in the culture.

Yeah.

Oh, you know what? I was actually totally in my brain talking about a different song. No, I know.
I remember talking about mean girls. Yep.
Sorry. No, that really is just about like being a bitch.
Yeah. Which we love.
Well, what song were you thinking of? Sorry. I was thinking, sorry.
I was thinking about girls. So confusing.
questions about this. And, okay, you don't have to- I wonder if you have answers.
But I think you've already- And look, we're not entitled to any information, okay? Who's this about? No. Mary Ann Cosby.
Totally. No, you know, I haven't- This is early.
Yes. Like, this is the first time I've spoken about this song.
You guys are the first people to ask me. So I haven't this is early yes like this is the first time

spoken about this song

you guys are the first people

to ask me

so I haven't quite decided

whether I'm revealing

reveal yeah

no problem

when I wrote it

I was like I'm revealing

but now you know

now the time is here

I'm like

oh I'm revealing

do you think I should reveal

I think

don't not for your benefit

just in general

I think that whatever

is going to

I feel like

at some point

yeah in 30 years

my thing is

I'm not gonna ask you To say it out loud Because you'll tell by my face Yeah But afterwards I'm gonna ask It's probably that person Right Yeah Well you know Right Yeah Like say it with your eyes i think it's yeah okay okay now i think i have the same feelings on this person yes yes yes please please so the thing is it's like i think we live in this like world of pop music right now where like women are like i support other women i love women i'm a feminist and that's great like love that but there's artifice to it it's a lot absolutely absolutely and i don't think that you become a bad feminist if you maybe don't see eye to eye with every single woman that's just like not the nature of human beings you know there is a competitiveness between us there is envy there is camaraderie, there is, you know, all of these different like dynamics. And I mean,

I, there is a competitiveness between us there is envy there is camaraderie there is you know all of these different like dynamics and I mean I feel that working in entertainment there is this kind of dance that we all do with each other whether you're in music whether in your you're in your world like no matter how you identify there is this dance that everybody everybody's watching each other everybody's like posing in the picture like hey my collaborator and good friend yeah but then you're also like i want what they have and then the next day you're like they suck i killed it today and this happens but no one really is like willing to discuss it but we've we all probably have our person yes or maybe a few different people and i'm sure we are that person for other people and i just find that there is this like strange like unspoken thing that often happens particularly with women because there is such a narrative of pitting women against each other within music and sometimes that's not totally like fabricated you know what i'm saying sometimes there is like what's the phrase smoke whether smoke there's fire like i do feel like that sometimes does happen and sometimes it's like i don't know everybody's just doing this little like square dance like this idea of like, oh, women are pitted against each other. That shouldn't make you feel any worse or more complicated about the fact that like it happens.
It's not, why is it this red line all of a sudden? You're not supposed to get into any other conflict with any of your peers. It's like, it's unrealistic.
It's unrealistic. And you're not saying fuck her.
You're saying it's confusing when I feel like we got a lot of people saying that we do great stuff together.

It feels like the vibe is good. Then I'm confused.
It's like, am I okay with who the audience might fill in this spot? Yeah. Well, that's the other thing about it.
It's like, for me, this is like my favorite part of the high artness of music and the low artness of like pop star, pop culture. Like I like the marriage of the two.
And I like that maybe people are getting it wrong, but they're like having fun playing the game. Because I think that that brings like kind of this three-dimensional world to songs, you know, just like the song's really good it's like it's nice to plant like theories and ideas and let people like live their kind of Paris Lindsay fantasy with it so it's it's fun but I also think it does this thing of like with the whole record I'm kind kind of like doing that in ways.
It's like holding a mirror to this kind of culture that we're in right now where everybody is really, I feel like everybody is like their moral compass has to be so in check all the time. Right.
But it's like sometimes it's just like fun if it's not. Morally.
And everybody, the listeners, like your moral compass isn't always like bang on like everybody's a little fucked everybody's like a little like shady everybody has like thoughts of all these different things like everyone's kind of a bitch sometimes and that's okay like it doesn't make you a bad person it makes you a flawed human being yeah a dynamic. And we want artists to put that into work too because it like, I mean, I can't stand the morality thing as it applies.
But when did pop stars, and let's just include and lump in like actors and shit, like when did they become like moral paragons? Because like at Chateau Marmont, like in the 70s, there would be signs up that said no actors. It's like we were like, they were like the rowdy fucking like chaotic people and that's what like everyone understood them to be and it's like these are not good people keep them out you know what i mean and like maybe that's okay yeah i wonder like it's interesting this celebrity culture especially over the past like 10 maybe 15 years has really like changed a lot in that i think niceness became a commodity yeah whereas before niceness wasn't cool right you know it wasn't like cool to be nice no yeah and then like suddenly it really was it was like oh well if you're not nice like you're dead you know but it actually just used to be like really cool to be like cunty

and a bitch

and I feel like

we're slowly edging back there

but I still think

we're in our nice era

I still feel like

we're in our like

everybody has to be

so nice all the time

and that's like

cool if you're like

really actually

just like chill and nice

but sometimes I'm like

I see through this

you see through it

and we all do

totally

I think everything

is too sensitive now

to actually hide who you are

like you know what I mean

like the media

is like if people are watching

Thank you. I'm like I see through this you see through it and we all do totally I think everything is too sensitive now to actually hide who you are like you know what I mean like the media it's like if people are watching they're watching so closely so that you can't really get away with like putting on a persona anymore that's like really different from who you are because we see so much of it and we're inundated in the discourse and etc that like we're ahead of the game that you're playing.
Right.

Unless you play it like really well.

Yeah.

Which some people do.

Really good team to cover shit up.

Yeah.

But I feel like,

and I mean this on such a complimentary level,

you,

I feel like you've stuck to your cuntiness the whole,

the whole way through.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Well,

I appreciate that.

It's funny.

It's like,

I think I can be bitchy. I don't know that i'm a bitch right that is a big distinction you know like i'm never gonna be horrible to someone yeah for the sake of it because it's actually i personally find it a lot harder to be like deliberately like it's emotionally dismissive or mean or whatever you know what i mean like and don me wrong.
I'm sure I have my bad days. Like I'm not saying I'm a saint, but I'll also just like tell it how it is.
And I think that gets misconstrued as being mean, but it's actually just, I'm just being real because I don't think that it's that interesting to have this sort of like facade of like. It takes a lot of energy.
You could twist yourself into a fucking knot. And what would really.
We're all going to die. A hundred percent.
And I'm just like, why don't you just like have fun? I mean, I think this album is kind of like on this front line where a lot of a lot of artists are doing this now where it is like transparency. I'm breaking the fourth wall.
You're singing about AG and Sophie and Hudmo for the first time probably, right? In a little way. You're being very real about shit.
You're singing. I don't want to spoil the rest of the album but you're singing about things that are very surprising.
And I'm like, oh, I didn't think she would have a song about have a song about, like, I think, is that, I think about it all the time. Yeah.
The song about babies. Track 14, is that? Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
It is track 14. I just remember because, track 14.
No, no, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, it's so old, I just remember, it goes into the last track and I love the two together because it's such a psych out. Like, it's like, you're talking about, like, really weighing things in the way, where way where you are in life like now is the time when i should maybe really think about a family if that's what i want like is it okay with you that i think about this like yeah this occupies a lot of space and then the next song is keys yeah and i was like and i was like is this her answering it or is this her having fun yeah or is it both like it both? It's not the answer.
Because I definitely, I don't think I have an answer. Yeah.
If you have baby fever, do cocaine is what you're saying. Yeah, totally.
Yeah, yeah. All brand deals gone.
So that's cool. But no, I don't have an answer.
But I think it's an interesting question to muse over because, I mean, do you guys have many friends who have kids? Our female friends are really starting I mean like even in the past six to eight months like four or five of my friends have had their like one of my friends had her third kid. Wow.
Yeah. Is this your friend group? I don't have loads of friends who have kids yet but I had kind of one like major friend in my life who's a songwriter who had a baby.
She was kind of the inspiration for this song because I went to her house to visit her in Stockholm with her partner. They've been together for like years, but they never really were like, we're having kids.
It just kind of happened for them, you know? And then it was just so crazy going over to their apartment writing songs with them she's wearing the same clothes she always wore the apartments the same they're exactly the same we're writing songs but it's just like everything is different because she has the key to this door that like i'm not even in the same room as yet do you know what i mean you talk about this like it's almost like they now know something you don't know and it's that wanting that like is driving the question in you exactly really interesting exactly and it's like you don't not to say that you can't you know get the same sort of level of intimacy purpose and intimacy I'm not saying that but I just I think particularly like with her for me i was just like wow like we used to be so similar and now your worldview even though you're saying all the same things and you're the same person you're also just like completely different because you have this new perspective that i can't even really begin to understand yeah you know and it's just strange but does it it not give you some comfort that like she is wearing the same clothes?

Yeah, absolutely.

No, it's totally comforting. But then it's at the same time, it's just like, am I missing out? Like, and I think for me, it drives me to this place of like, do I want kids? will I feel this new lease of life and this whole new world open up if i have kids will i feel resentment towards the kid will i seamlessly be able to do both things yeah in exactly the way that i want no probably not unless i like kind of disregard the know, you want to do an amazing job at both.

And so I would also,

if I were in that position,

I don't, I'll never have children.

But if I were really,

if it was something that was on my mind,

I would worry that it would like harm my passion

and like what I know I'm supposed to do.

You know what I mean?

Like, is it going to change the way

that I relate to myself

as like this person who,

like in your case is out there creating

Thank you. You know what I mean? Like, is it going to change the way that I relate to myself as like this person who, like in your case, is out there creating and like being this like pop idol? And then, I don't know, like it would change a lot.
Like you don't know that you're going to be exactly like your friend wearing the same shit, talking about the same shit. Like for some people, it really changes.
But I feel like you have already been through a situation where everything was taken from you in some sense with lockdown.

Like your response to that was like how I'm feeling now.

So I feel like in a big life change situation like that,

you already kind of, I'm not saying it would happen exactly that way,

but you already know that like your response would be to like keep making. True.
That's, yeah, that's pretty interesting. I never thought of it like that.
No? Yeah. Connecting dots.
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Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid.
Long, silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me.
And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.
I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail.
I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place.
Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
Bone Valley, Season 2. Jeremy.
Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. At Fairfield Subaru, we believe that cars are not just about safe transportation, but about the people who ride in them.
As a family-owned dealership, we're deeply committed to our community. From sponsoring local pet adoptions to supporting first responders, we strive to make a positive impact.
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Visit us at 2525 Martin Road in Fairfield or at fairfieldsubaru.com.

Fairfield Subaru, where love meets the road.

Last time I saw you was at SNL and at the good nights, you were like,

what's going on after?

And I was like,

there's a horse meat disco.

And then I almost,

did you go?

No,

but I went after.

You didn't miss much.

That was that,

we love horse meat.

I mean,

you know this because you do it,

but it's,

it's a lot of,

it's a lot of energy.

It's late.

It's late.

SNL is late.

It's late.

But like the boiler room set looks fucking hot.

No,

that was late,

but it's,

I mean,

this is like,

wait,

because when do you end?

One.

One.

And then like-

And then you go to the

funny Mexican restaurant.

Where was it?

Rosa Mexicana.

Rosa Mexicana.

What is,

okay.

We rotate,

we rotate restaurants.

Yeah,

go,

go,

go.

Why isn't it,

okay.

The same place?

Why isn't it just a better place

you know what

you really roll the dice

and I can say

I can say this

and he can't

but like sometimes

I'm like

where are we going

and it's either a fuck yes

or a come on

but has it

it has been a fuck yes

I've been to two

yeah

and they would

I went Rosa Mexicana

Rosa Mexicana was Oscar Isaac

yeah

and I mean

I had fun

I had fun

you had a margarita

but it was funny

and you described it as a funny restaurant and it is a very funny restaurant. It's hilarious.
And we love Rosa Mexicana so much. We love them.
We love them. But we won a table tonight.
Brand deal's gone. My brand deal with Rosa Mexicana is gone.
It's gone. But I, like, so Charlie famous today.
But surely it's not a budget thing. It kind of is.
Like, it's getting a little slush. I know.
It's a budget thing. What are you talking about? You need to come back when the party is at Lavenue at Saks.
It's chic. There's room to walk around.
But Charlie Famously was the musical guest during the Omicron episode where it fucking crashed down. Oh, everyone was gone, right? Well, can I say, can I reveal?

Like on the monitors on Thursday,

like all the writers were fucking screaming because it was like, oh my God,

it's like Caroline Polichek's here, Christine's here.

They're doing new shapes.

And then the world missed out on like the three of you

being on the same stage on TV doing new shapes.

It was, that was crazy.

Tragic.

That was crazy.

Also because, yeah, I guess we never did that performance.

Oh, fuck. There was, we were on a, did did you see a sound check we were on a spinning platform so cool and like i love caroline and christine but my god that it was crazy like because you guys go crazy on it was like caroline wanted the platform to spin one way at one speed christine wanted to spin the other way i was like I don't don't care which way the fucking platform spins, I just get it going.
And then everyone has COVID. It was just like so stressful.
It was just like a lot. And then we finally figured out, we were feeling so good about it.
We're like dancing on the platform. We're not falling over.
We like, we fucking killed it. And then we're literally, we were in like, we were getting ready.
And then on Saturday?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was in gum.

And then Caroline was like, it's not happening.

I was like, what do you mean?

You're not coming?

And she was like, no, it's like.

They pulled the plug on it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Was that what happened?

They pulled the plug on it entirely?

Well, not my meatball sketch.

Thank God.

Oh, yes.

Charlie played a meatball.

No, but that was the Oscar Isaac show.

Was it?

That was the second show.

That was the time you came back. Oh, I got a chicken, chicken.
I did some pre-taped sketch with Paul Rudd. Oh, you were a chicken or a parrot? You were a parrot.
You were a parrot. Yeah, and I was kind of like, oh, well, at least I kept that a little bit.
Oh my God. Yeah, it was like me and Paul, it was Paul Rudd, right? Yeah.
Wow. That's a good one though, to play a chicken with Paul Rudd.
That's so SNL coded. Yeah, it was like me and Paul, it was Paul Rudd, right? It was Paul Rudd, yeah.
Wow. That's a good one though, to play a chicken with Paul Rudd, that's so SNL coded.
Yeah, it was. It's like I went on there and I did sketch comedy.
Yeah. I was a chicken.
I was a chicken and a meatball. But then you were, but then the second show you did Baby and then what did you do? I did Beg for You.
Beg for You. Yeah.
Oh my, Rena wasn't there. Rena was not there, no.
Speaking of Sunset Tower, Sunset Tower holds a very special place in my heart Because that was where I was when Crash came out The whole album And I like It was just me in a room Listening to that whole album Went to the tour You were fantastic And I still say That that is the most well behaved audience Yeah Because It's these lovely e-boys and girls Yeah Who just jump up and down Vertical No one's like Throw elbows in the pit, you know what I mean? Everyone like watches their space and they're so well behaved. They're polite.
The angels are polite. But with this, do you want them to get a little bit more chaotic? I always want them to get chaotic.
Like whenever they, you know, I'm lucky because whenever I bump into like a mass group of angels they're very like sweet you know they like wait in line and they like have the lids off their sharpie like they're organized oh my god I love it yeah it's never like a shit show yeah yeah yeah I saw this TikTok of Paris Hilton had done like a signing and it had got a little hectic and someone had like drawn on her like Chanel bag with a Sharpie. And I was just like that.
I mean, I'm sure there's like- Not in your class. There's lots more where it came from, but that is really like, that's such a bummer.
Beyond the pale. That would never happen with the Angels.
Not on your blue blanciaga sling. No, no.
Do you still put a banana in it? Always. I always travel.
I brought a banana here. Left it on the plane.
You did. You have my favorite.
What's in my bag? Because you have the banana. You have the Laneige.
Yes. And you have the Barreto.
Is it the true emotion? No, no, no, no. That's, that's, no.
What is it? I just. Mixed emotions.
Mixed. You and I have the same fragrance.
Yeah. I'm wearing La Tulipe today.

La Tulipe is good.

It's a new,

I haven't done it before.

I like it.

It's a Biretto.

I like it.

A new fragrance is a thing.

Yeah.

Like I've switched

and it's just like.

What are you on?

I am on De Los Santos

from Biretto.

Yeah, okay.

I have that too.

And I will say,

Bo and Yang really tried to get me

into Sunday Cologne

and that was not for me.

Sunday Cologne? Oh, it's called. No, no, it's Birettodo.
It's by Raydo as well. It's called Sunday, yes, Sunday something.
Rainy Sunday? No, that's Marchella. I think it's called Sunday Cologne.
It's just called Sunday Cologne, guys. It's called Sunday Cologne, yeah.
It's just Sunday Cologne. But now I found De Los Santos and I actually was wearing, it had its debut at Coachella on me and I felt very good.
By the way, Coachella, tell me about Coachella. You didn't say me, but I saw you last year.
Oh, you did? That went off. People were getting fun rowdy at that.
It was fun. How was Coachella this year? Coachella this year was fucking great.
But Lana Del Rey makes an appearance in the Mean Girls song. Yes, she does.
She does. Because hot girls listen to Lana Del Rey.
Hot Mean Girls listen to Lana Del Rey. It's true.
It's true. I feel like any cool, like genuinely cool girl, not only likes Lana Del Rey, but understands the lore of Lana in a really deep way.
Yeah. She's so fucking real.
She's an art figure. She really is something else.
She's symbolic. She's symbolic for something.
Yeah. Right.
Yes. When I was hearing that song, I was like, I see this girl.
Yeah. Yeah.
You see her. Yeah.
She like smokes a skinny cigarette. And being, being And she's a little like, oh.
Yes. She's a little bit like.
She's got a vocal fry. Vocal fry.
But it doesn't feel dated. It feels very good on her.
Yeah. Absolutely.
and I will say being at Coachella around 75,000 of those girls yeah was a good vibe cool and I wasn't sure about her doing the Friday night because I felt like that should be a party like in my head I was like switch Doja and Lana put Lana on Sunday night Doja will get everything started and then now having seen it I'm like everything was exactly as it should have been. Everything was perfect.
Yes. Did you go? I didn't go.
No. He's never been.
I've never been. Oh.
What people do with your music though, I think, like if we're gonna compare Lana Heads to like Angels and people who like really like love you, I feel like you get people to like do the digging of like, oh my God, like it's this, there's this whole album that, you know, like they they really start to like dig through the crate and i think people love to like take your stuff all the stems whatever and then just like rearrange it and like they they have fun with the building blocks that you're giving yeah yeah yeah yeah and i think my music is like intrinsically like for the night yes you know like i said you can listen to it in the day you can can listen to it in the car, like whatever. But generally it's like the best at night time.
I remember like, I saw you at the Wiltern a few years ago and just like, what was happening on stage was so great. One of my favorite songs of yours is I Don't Want to Know.
Oh, cool. And like, I just like, you had this like, really cool purple light, just like, I don't know, just like, you're not like synesthetic, are you? I could tell yeah i can what do you mean like someone like got into your face was like you're not actually no no i just it's like one of those things where you know like when you do your first interviews and it's like one of the first things you've ever said and then like it follows you it's because people are like she's synesthetic test her yeah but like you actually do experience that.
Yeah, and for me, it's really helpful with writing. When I'm writing, I'm like, this song is purple.
And then I'll be like, AG, make the purple stuff. Yes, I wanted to ask you this question about when you sit down to write a song, is it like, because it feels like equal parts important, and obviously it is, but I guess my question is, is it the sound and where you're going sonically that dictates what something is going to be about or do you come in with an emotion that you need to get out with this record it's been very much that I came in with what I wanted to say whereas on previous records it's not actually really been like this with this record it's been so lyrically led yeah like I've been like I wanna write a song about my kind of sticky relationship with my mom and dad which is apple or like i want to write the song about not being sure if i want to have kids or you know like it's been very like it's there it's in my head like mean girls kind of like piecing that around like a few different girls i know and thinking about like qualities that they have and putting that in a song 360 and your bookends are there it's thanks yeah and with that it was very like okay i want to talk about me like being that like a sonic reference for people but through the like lens of of Julia kind of being the like New York, like it girl, street fashion girl that everybody's referencing, you know? Julia Fox meaning.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was like very specific and then kind of fun to build out these like pop songs that hopefully like a lot of people can relate to, but they're coming from like quite a specific idea. Yeah.
Right. And place.
And why do you think it didn't happen with the other albums? It just like, wasn't the way it was. I think I was writing very much like the way I would write on previous records, we would build a track and then I would get on the microphone and literally be like, and then figure out the lyrics.
And then I would figure out the lyrics that fit the vowel sounds i was kind of making so there was already this sort of like map of sound that you know i was trying to fit words to you're saying this is lyrically loud lyrically loud and not really focusing too much on rhyme or worrying about like what fits within a stanza or anything like that you know so actually just i was really able to kind of just write lyrics that i would actually say in a conversation rather than crafting them into this sort of like song version of what i would say and even like melodically in the way that like the song forms around us like even with girls so confusing it's girl you know what i mean like there's something there that's the melody like the way you really say i'm like i want to do this so you know what i mean like you know it's just like it feels like it's born out of something you want to say yes this time and to hear that you say that is yeah it works but back on this thing of like i think this is like extremely transparent in the way and it is like holding up this mirror because like the Rorschach test of this

album is the cover and everyone having all these opinions about like the,

right.

And it's in your,

and I think you kind of threw it back at people in a nice way where you're

like,

no,

this is actually like,

this completely reveals what you think like a pop girlie should appear and

how they should put out their work and stuff like that,

which I think is great.

But I think with the content of the album,

it's more about like, guys, like I think about like crazy dark shit about like my career

I'm not putting words in your mouth but it's like I think it is your most vulnerable album

because you are being very honest about like how you regard yourself in a way that would have never

occurred to me you know what I mean like there are allusions to like your career being in this

in-between and I'm like oh like six albums in albums in, like you feel that way. Yeah, totally.
Well, I just it's I think there aren't many people who have a path that I have. Yeah.
There are Robin being one. And I think that's why there's a lot of like synergy between the two of us but you know somebody

who had speaking about Robin now huge commercial success yes right at the beginning of her career and then kind of had to like rebrand yeah and then became this kind of gay icon kind of like girl of the night

no

that sounds wrong

but you know

like night time music

like

yes

like

yeah

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like

like became this kind of gay icon kind of like girl of the night no that sounds wrong you know like nighttime music like club like always no matter what she does is always going to be kind of like looked upon as like a really important artist who's kind of like treading new ground and you know yeah kind of like timeless yes and i think you know we share similarities in that you know not my first music but music for my second record was globally like commercially successful but at that point of time for me i didn't really have my artistry kind of totally figured out in the way that i feel that i do have now i mean there were definitely like good through threads but when I look at for example like Sauer Olivia Rodrigo I'm like oh I wish I'd done Sucker kind of like that like because I think there are parallels within those universes but I think she just did it better because i think she i don't know i don't think

i knew myself that well at that point in time when i was doing that record and i look at some

of the decisions she made and i'm like oh wow it's like still very like pop and kind of like

touching on this like live like punk-ish stuff yeah but it's done in a way that to me is still

very cool whereas i feel like when i look back on sucker there are elements of it that i'm like oh that's just a bit annoying you know what i mean i've told you though that like true romance is still the perfect i don't know how you feel about that album but it's like i feel like that is still core charlie that is still like that's the through thread that's the through line you know what i mean like i still listen to so far away and i'm like this is fundamentally the same stuff she's putting it she's put out through her whole career and like that is like music of the night where it's like it's like the beginnings of like bedroom pop this whole thing now that has this whole you know life and culture around it like i think you really broke ground in that way with it like yeah sucker is its own thing and that must have been so strange and so complicated but it's still a great record but true romance i think it's still like you you can always always fall back on that first record is like yeah i love that record i love that record but yeah anyways i think it's like it's just interesting my career hasn't been like A to B it's been like kind of it's like a weird A J P Q it's everywhere you know and totally and it's like straddling this like commercial thing also being a songwriter also being linked to the underground yeah disregarding that and coming back and you know it's a mess no it's not a mess it's that i think i'm sure you're it's a mess in a nice way yeah yeah yeah people don't have that trajectory anymore because people are so afraid to take the risk yeah whether from the label or from the artist themselves like i think you have been so good about using whatever the apparatus is whatever you have within you to just like make it like that's like that's what how i'm feeling now is to me it's like yeah you just fucking made it thank you you know what i mean you have had these like when you describe it as a mess it is interesting because it's like there's these spikes of like these mainstream moments like going back to like boom clap like that being in like love simon yeah like that was like fault in our stars oh fault in our stars but it's like the same it's the same but It's actually the same. It's like, that kind of was our fault in our songs although they both lived,

I guess.

They were still gay, though.

Yeah.

But like that,

and then,

I remember,

it was a few years ago now,

but we were in the Fire Island movie,

and when we found out

that the boys' remix

was going to be in our trailer.

Yeah, so cool.

I was like,

thank God,

because this is going to get across like the fun of this. It's going to make it seem even more fun than it is.
And also just, like, there was something about, doesn't that song also start Promising Young Woman? Yes. So it's just, like, there are these, like, moments in, like, big mainstream culture that, like, you're right there.
And so I wonder how do you feel when something is perceived on that level? Is that like an exciting thing or is it a little bit like, hmm? No, no, I feel good about it. It's like, okay, I think because there are some things you mentioned that, so like Fire Island, Promising Young Woman, those things feel really exciting to me and inspiring and happy to be involved in them.
But I think it's like what I've learned, like going back and forth between this kind of like more commercial version of myself to this kind of more, I'm really just leading with like what's in my brain and my, you know, instinct. I've just learned now from doing it so long.
I can't like fake. I just can't like fake pushing the commercial button.
Like, hi, girl I'm smiling and we're here with coca-cola yeah I can't like and that's no disrespect to the people who do some people are just like made to like live in that world and like they want to make the music that is going to like really succeed in that world and it it's really hard to succeed in that world. Like I'm not taking that away from anyone.
But like I just can't do it because when I've written those songs and I put them out, it's like they only go so far because I think there's a block that the fans see as well. They're just like, she's not that girl.
Like that's not who she really is. She's not that girl.
Like some of them can like maybe a less hardcore fan can get down with it. But it's like, you know, it's just like when you smell a rat or whatever, it's like, I have to just be myself.
Something in the milk ain't clean when you're not being yourself. And i can't fucking nor should you have to i can't do it because it makes me miserable of course and you have to sing that music every night i think it was dua who said we were just talking to her about her album and she we were talking about this like theme that she has of like positivity and the messages that she has are usually like up and she's like well i have to sing it every fucking night so if it's gonna be something that's in my mouth every single night it better taste good like you know what i mean that's so funny because i'm the opposite of that yeah really like if i had to sing really overly positive like boom clap is a good example obviously so different from like radical optimism like completely different sounding records

etc

but like

that's funny

that she says that

and that makes

sense for her

because she is

I think she is

always really

kind of like

seizing

like

the positivity

in life

I kind of like

to dwell in the

yeah

I like to kind of

like sit in the shit

a little bit

and externalize

that because

that is also

a valid emotion

that people out there

are feeling

I have to do it

I could

yeah that's

that's really

interesting

yeah

yeah

Thank you. the shit.
And externalize that because that is also a valid emotion that people out there are feeling. I have to do it.
I could, yeah, that's so, that's really interesting. Yeah.
Yeah. But like, I feel that this is like, like the pendulum has stopped swinging.
I just had like a vision of like me performing radical optimism and do a doing brat. Doing brat.
Being like, three, six, five, putty girl. And then me doing...
Illusion. Yeah.
And like both of us like being on our, like the versions of what those tours are. And I want to see that.
How's that, how's it going down? But this is how you know that like you're doing the right thing is that like you, like we love Dua. It would be crazy if she did 360 and it would be kind of crazy if you did Radical Optimist.

It's like you are doing the thing

you were meant to do.

It is purely externalized

from whatever your inner life is.

And I feel like what you're saying

is maybe the pendulum has stopped swinging.

Like you've landed in this nice space

of like I'm in between

or I'm more of this one thing

than I am this thing.

And like I feel like reflective surfaces

are a big part of this album. It's like you look in the the mirror you see me like and you're holding up a mirror to society am I being so stupid? no she saw you illuminate me I went home the reflective surface motif but like use it yes I'm using it come on use it like a mirror like a mirror we gotta ask Charlie the question yes we do so this is the central question of Lost Cult it's what was the culture that made you say culture is for you you can look back and be like I am largely me because of this thing I experienced I think it was and maybe this is not very surprising but I think it was like the London rave scene and that like culture of like London warehouse parties that I kind of came up through because that sort of in turn put me very on to kind of like club kid stuff when I was younger and when I was in art school I was always kind of like in this sort of like Lee Bowery like inspired like Michael Alec kind of yeah yeah but still but like there's a cool scene yeah yeah like those parties like that level of yes totally and that level of kind of like DIY aesthetic with clothes and music and yeah I think that really formed who I am so chic how did you find it I think it was from starting going to these parties because when I must have been like 2007 8 when I was going in London I was young I would go with my parents oh which was not cool were you guys like in in Essex going to London? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They would drive me. I would get asked ahead of MySpace and I knew this like promoter who was like come and play and we would like drive into London and I would play at like 3 a.m.
You were being booked for these? Yeah, I was being booked. Wow.
And that was kind of my first like look into kind of night life and like party culture. And at that point in time, I guess it was like our version of Indie Sleaze was going on.
It was New Rave, which was like, you know. Sure, sure.
Yeah. And so that was sort of like a kind of regurgitation of, you know, all the prior, like, first, second wave of club kids

that were coming before. So I kind of just got sort of, like, sucked in through that way.
But like, and then you learned about the prior wave. Yes.
It felt like education. There was some, like, rooting for this.
It wasn't like it just kind of came up out of nowhere. Like, you had history to, like, soak into.
Yeah, I had to soak in the history because I wanted to understand like what Michael Alec was doing and what like that original like club scene and like those club kids were doing back here in New York. And those levels of like crazy parties they would throw, like they threw one on a bridge where they like shut both ends of the bridge.
and like you know just this like a law of like partying and how that kind of like spawned into music and then began to kind of create like new sounds of music I think that it's like such a rich thing for me like you like at the limelight would have been so fucking country imagine yeah. Yeah, wild.
Imagine. Where do you live now? Do you still like? I'm half in LA and half in London.
Yeah. Back and forth.
Back and forth. LA out of necessity or do you like it? I am beginning to maybe be over it.
I've been there for 10 years. Oh, that feels like double the amount of time it would take to be over it.

Yeah.

I'm thinking about New York,

actually.

I think New York is,

I've never lived here.

I think you should do it.

I think New York is,

New York and London,

like,

I guess like if you were

someone who wanted

two different experiences

in the two places you live,

like,

I'm here because I want to rest,

meaning LA,

and I'm here because

I want to be included

in what's going on

and like the culture,

that's London,

but like,

New York is New York.

Yeah.

I do love London. You can rest in New York.

I do love London too.

Did you love performing at Coachella?

I was honestly so scared.

Was it scary?

Yeah, because, you know, with Coachella.

You were on the Coachella stage.

Yeah.

And everyone was like, it's all about the live stream.

Everyone's like stressing about the live stream.

So that made me kind of treat it more like TV.

Oh, got it.

Was it helpful or no?

I'll see you next time. was like it's all about the live stream everyone's like stressing about the live stream so that made me kind of treat it more like tv oh got it you know was it helpful or no well i was happy with how it looked and how i sounded because i was thinking so much about the broadcast but it definitely like was just stressful that was a major you know it was a major change so i remember we saw Chapel in the Gobi tent and then right after that we walked over to

Sabrina

and we were stressful. That was a major it was a major change.
So I remember we saw Chapel in the Gobi tent and then right after that we walked over to Sabrina Carpenter on the Coachella stage and I remember it felt like the energy was lower but then I was like oh but on this stage they're thinking about the live stream whereas in like the Gobi and Sahara tents they're just giving a live show and it And it feels like that. Like, so the live experience does feel, I would imagine like more alive there.
And maybe as the performer, it feels more connected. Whereas like on the Coachella stage where you were, it is a lot about like, they're watching at home.
Yeah, it was scary. Yeah.
That's okay. I mean, would Lee Bowery be here? You crushed.
I was having the best time. He wouldn't be there.
He wouldn't be there. He tells me.
Lee Bowery, we used to do these like videos, these little short films of him like teaching you how to like have tea. Like he was just so adorable.
That's what people don't talk about with Lee Bowery is like, yeah, it's like the looks and all these things, but it's like at his heart, he was just like sensitive. He was Australian, right? Australian? Yeah.
Australian. I got a bit confused as a Brit, but you know, maybe you're right.
Maybe you're right. No, we can't look it up.
I hope you're both wrong. I hope you're both wrong.
But like, did it take you like, was there a developmental thing for you to like grow up in that and then be like, I'm going do like I'm gonna make this like part of me I

don't think it was a choice you know I think it's like it just I gravitated so yeah hard towards it I think it was like I saw elements of myself in what was being created in the worlds that I was looking into

there was

there was like a

punkness

and

like a

kind of

kind of

kind of

kind of freeness. And it felt that there was like a possibility to be a little messy and not perfect and not look a certain type of a way to still be able to express yourself and feel really like validated or something.
And I think I was searching for that a lot when I was growing up. And that that could be a version of success is just going there and participating and being in the culture and being around people that make you feel good and not this like more calculated metric of like, well, did this happen? Did you look like this? And being rewarded for being a freak.
I think that was something that really made me gravitate towards that world because that was what was celebrated. If you were really wearing something weird or like, you know what I mean? You got attention.
You got something. You got cred.
Right. I was like, oh, that's cool.
You don't have to be this kind of traditional version of beauty or talent or like whatever it is it's like you can kind of make a fantasy and it be valid even if it's like a little fucked and ugly you know or whatever that's your root though that's why it's like you don't have to worry about being like the moral model for anything it's like just like let that go. Because you started out in this like environment where like it didn't really matter.
Like nightlife culture is about like unrepressed everything. It's just like humanity revealing itself.
I'm being so like. No, I love it.
You know what I mean? No, I love it. It's so interesting.
Have you done Mighty Hoopla or been to Mighty Hoopla? I don't know what that is. Okay, good, no problem.
It's like big queer music festival. It's like a queer music festival.
Oh God, sorry. I'm like, what is that? I was like, she's probably a headline four times.
No, I don't know what it is. It's fun.
There's that park that's in South London. Victoria Park, no.
Not Victoria. I haven't done it.
You haven't done it, no problem. Sorry.
We're still like, no, but it's in this park. It's like a teeny tiny Coachella, but in London with all queer, like queer adjacent artists.
They've never asked me. That's so fucked up.
Yeah, it's fucked. It's fucked in a crazy way.
Are you excited for tour? I am. Have you guys been wanting to tour together? It feels like such a natural fit.
Yeah, you know, we have the same manager. Oh yeah.
Our manager has been trying to get us to talk together for years. Yeah.
And every time we're like, yeah, like, obviously we love each other, but I think the music has never quite lined up. And now it's like, so lining up, you know? So this time when our manager, like for like, literally the fifth time was like, do you guys want to talk together? We were like, yeah, we do.
Because it really made sense and we could see how it would really flow and work together. Yeah.
Stuff sung together? I think so. To be honest, we're still putting it together.
But I think that, yes. It's what people would want.
I mean, I don't think it's going to be like a full medley situation, but there's definitely going to be a few moments together. You guys should do Beauty and the Beast.
You guys should do Beauty and the Beast. Yeah, absolutely.
I did see you guys on the same show. Troy's been begging me.
I think it was also at the Will Turn. Like it was years ago, you guys were on the same show.
It was like a bunch of artists. Yeah, it was a festival that I think we both did together.
Because I because I remember just seeing you both and I forget why. It was a Pride festival that maybe was Troy's invention, but maybe it was also mine, but I don't remember.
Troy invented Pride. He totally did.
He pioneers it every year. He did, yeah.
Well, it's going to be so fun. It's going to be fun.
People were freaking out over the ticket situation, which is a good feeling when it's like Did people get tickets? I know So yeah we're so happy We're really happy It's going to be fun It's like pretty quick I know it's like a couple months right? It's like not even Is it like five weeks? Okay Where is it in New York is it MSG yes it's MSG

obviously

we'd love for you

to come

it's gonna be really fun

and

you know

I've paid

top dollar for you

like I don't want

the coffee

you don't have to anymore

oh

you don't have to anymore

oh fine

I'll take it if I have to

I'll take it if I have to

I did hear a story

one time

of

I won't say any details

until after

but there was an artist

who was in a big feud

with this other famous person and the famous person reached out like years after to like get tickets to a show and the person just sent back a ticket link and said, buy one. Iconic.
Iconic. Love.
All right, so it's time for, I don't think so Okay You're doing well We'll go in first But I just know You're gonna pop the fuck off So this is This is our 60 second segment Where we drag Name cultural item here I Walked into this Myself today It's my own fault But I am gonna Okay Here we go There's some we go. There's some self-accountability.
This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey.
I don't think so, honey. Wearing a graphic tee on the subway in New York.
Because here's the thing. People are going to read it, and then they're going to engage with it, and then you're trapped with them for what could be as much as a half hour.
So today I have a shirt on that says, is it going to be a threesome? I'm Challengers coded my whole life right now. This is merch from Focus Features.
Thank you again. For Driveaway Dolls.
And for Driveaway Dolls. Haven't seen it yet, but wait, sister.
I just know that I was on the subway today with a gentleman who could read the shirt and did out loud. And so then he was engaging with it.
It caused everyone to turn. And I said, you know what? Maybe if I hadn't worn a shirt with words on it that could be read, I wouldn't be having a conversation at all, least of all about threesomes.
And this person was not necessarily someone I wanted to engage with about threesomes. 15 seconds.
If you see me wearing this and you think we would vibe, I don't know. Maybe I will be wearing it the whole rest of today.
This episode comes out in like three weeks. But I'll wear it again.
Five seconds. Actually, yes.
The day this episode is released, I'm going to be walking the streets of New York wearing it. Say hi, but not if you're like a crazy person on the subway.
And that's one minute. So that's why I don't think I'm going to be on today.
That was so good. Thank you.
I'm going to suck at this. No, you're not.
I'm going to try my best. You're going to be so good.
You're going to be so good. We all know you talk super fast.
Do I? On recorded media, you go so fast. Let me tell you something.
Do I? Like in a way, now I'm like, do I? No. Is it in a way that it's like, oh, you mean in songs? I'm just saying we know you can get on the mic and rip.
You can hit, you can rip. You know what I mean? In a way, is it like a problem? No.
Okay. It means you're built for, I don't think so on me.
Okay, okay. Yeah, everyone's thing about Charlie is they're like, yeah, she just talks too fast.
Wait, I just wish it wasn't so fast. I'm just kidding.
No, I'm just saying like, I've heard the album and I know that you can keep up the tempo. I understand.
And Bowen Yang, speaking of tempo, are you ready to fucking do this? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey, as time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. Pubic hair.
Why is it looking different down there than up here? I look like Miss Frizzle got a dye job. I'm curly curly curly and I wish I could get a perm up here and make my, give myself a little swoop.
My pubic hair is so tightly coiled down there and when you see it on the bathroom floor you oh, no. I'm so sure.
That is not something I want to see.

And if you're living alone like me,

it's just you.

I don't like how... 30 seconds.

I don't like what it says about me. I think

pubic hair, like, either... When you have

it, it's like, oh, let's sheer it.

And then when you don't have it, it's like,

well, now you look like a fucking

mole rat. Yeah, 100%.
There's no in between.

15 seconds. Why can't we just stay there? And I sure as hell ain't laser removing it because it's like, because like I said, if it's gone, it looks even crazier than if it is a forest.
Five seconds left. If it is a jungle.
And I have a really crazy situation. I don't know why it's different down there.
Isn't body hair all supposed to be the same? And that's one minute. You are the only person I believe in history to say you wish what was down there.

You wish your pubic hair was on your head.

I just want it to go both ways.

If my hair on my head looked pubic, I'd be like, well, at least it's consistent.

Right.

This is so shocking.

First of all, laser hair removal on your pubic area?

No.

Asshole, maybe.

Some people do it.

The guys I've been hooking up with lately don't seem to care at all about maintaining it down there. Right.
Or maybe they just think they don't care what I think. Yeah.
I think it has been so wild and free as a family. I think no matter your gender, it's like there is not a great way to manage it, like period.
Well, maybe it's also because I'm hooking up with like men that are my age in their 30s and not like- They've just given up. This isn't like when you're fresh in your 20s and everyone thinks like, oh, I should like manscape or whatever or like really keep it clean down there.
It's like, give it a rest, girl. Like we're all just trying to live life.
No one cares that you're a hairy one. No one cares.
But I bet your pubic hair is thrilling. It's freshly shorn.
Oh. Why? You have plans later? No, I just, it was getting out of hand and I am in that liminal space now where I'm like this sucks like I just wish it would go back are you itchy no I'm actually okay I'm moisturizing cool down there conditioning conditioning moisturizing oh yeah I guess so I should try my purple shampoo for my blonde yeah get blonde pubes get blonde pubes I don't wanna know okay anyway oh my god I am the Nava don't.
Yeah. Get blonde pubes.
Get blonde pubes. I don't want to know.
Okay, anyway. I am nervous.
Don't be. I'm nervous.
I'm nervous. Okay, right.
Don't be nervous. My heart just skipped a beat.
No, you're going to be absolutely slay. Think of something you were like.
I got it. You got it.
Just speak the truth. This is Charlie X the X's.
I don't think so. When your time starts now.
Okay, I don't think so, honey. I'm actually coming for a group of people.
These people who have this stuck up, eye-rolly attitude towards reality TV. You know what I mean? Taking it back to the beginning of our conversation, what is not to love? I feel like there is such a high, low conundrum to reality TV that just makes me want to sink my teeth in whether it be our favorite Housewives of Salt Lake City Potomac also heard it's pretty good Miami also heard it's pretty good but also what about some other amazing shows Below Deck, Below Deck Down Under Below Deck Sailing Yacht Below Deck Mediterranean, Love Island Australia, British, Hurt the US wasn't that good.
But anyway, I just think that there is such a psychology, such a wonderful, amazing world to delve into on reality TV. It's like the factory.
It's absolutely fabulous. Just keep it coming and don't judge it.
There you go. And you were worried for no reason.
I don't think so, honey, the world there. Reality TV is not trash.
It's not trash. It's not trash.
It's art. It's art.
You should watch- I sweat during that. Oh my God.
I was like sweating. And look, but that's like a good sign.
Promo for the tour. Promo for the tour.
I was just like, oh my God. Way to clear Voight come in recently.
And when he sweats, he means it's the spirit movie. It's like energy is moving through him's what's happened amazing yeah um you should watch couples therapy oh it's so good with um ornick around like fabulous have you had her on you know we should she is the sexiest she's so sexy isn't she don't you just want to be her yeah i love her and what just happened here i love her just a tiny little what's.
What was that? I love her. She's like talk about this.
She's amazing. I'm so glad you watched her.
I love her. I think her fashion is incredible.
I just think she's chic. She is.
I bet her apartment's really cool. Yeah.
Have you gotten to the lockdown stuff yet? Where they bring the cameras into her apartment. She's doing all of it through like telehealth.
So like you see her apartment. And it's like it's kind of messy in a very charming way.
She's got all her kids running around. How many kids does she have? Two.
I think she's so fast. What I love is when she speaks to her therapist who's a real icon.
That woman is- Virginia. Virginia.
She's very like Fran Cody. She's a real superstar.
But you should finish it all the way through. There's like, I mean, whatever.
We don't have to talk about that. There's an Israeli-Palestinian queer couple.
That's amazing. And then Orna's like, when she finds out that one of them is Palestinian, she goes, you know, I'm from Israel, right? And then Orna, like, blessed, is like on socials being like, this is crazy.
Anyway, but you should watch it all the way through. You would fucking love it.
I can't wait. Yeah.
I can't wait. She's a star.
She's a star. But that's between like, that's not quite reality.
It's not quite documentary, right? It's like they know they're being filmed, but they can't see the cameras. Yeah.
I think they've done that show. By the way, I have no idea how long we have left, but I'm like, wow, we could do a whole episode on this.
I feel like they've shot that show in a really tasteful way. Yes.
And I hope it never changes. You know what? You want to know what it is? It's like you can tell that.
Well, obviously, it's all hidden. That's like part of it.
But it's still really elevated the way they shoot it. And I just what I love is that they seem to catch micro emotions.
Like it's really like intentionally edited. And I believe it's like really smartly done through her lens because we're making a joke about like, what was that? But we saw it too.
You know what I mean? And also it has to be so crazy like to be in those sessions and then watch it after because it's also an edited version of that session. You think that would also maybe give you a little bit of a complex.
Like why am I being being edited this way and not that way? Like, I can't understand saying yes to that, but I'm so thrilled that people do. Me too.
Do you have a favorite couple or a most fascinating couple? I really liked the young queer couple. Like they were really young and they had been in a relationship for like three years, sort of formatively.
And one of them wanted to be in an open relationship and the other did not or was adjusting to that.

And I think ultimately what they had to really figure out

and admit to each other

was that they were not right for each other.

And watching that play out was heartbreaking.

And I just hope that they could still figure it out

to be in each other's lives.

Because that's, I think, the hardest thing

about when a relationship ends is it's like,

I don't want to lose you as the person. know like that and I thought that was just like a beautiful illustration and like you know examination of that kind of thing like I love you more than anything this is not right do you have a favorite? Yeah mine is also season one it was the kind of like very sort of

set in his ways,

quite sexy.

Oh, I know who you're talking about.

Man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the woman

who was sort of willing

to try anything for him.

And he was just,

he would like get up

during the session

and walk around.

Can't stand it.

And he was just like being

like very controlling.

But his story is interesting. His story was wild.
So wild. Like that woman like fucked him when he was like 14.
And like tied him to a bed. And also the way it came out, again, could be the edit.
We don't know. It was just sort of like they'd done like four or five sessions.
Nothing was really like going anywhere. And then one day he's just like, well, you know, there was that time where I got tied to a bed when I was 14.
Like, Ona's like, what? Let's like really examine this for a sec. Yeah, it's just like, he just like throws it in out of nowhere.
But that's real though. That's real therapy shit.
There's no like, easing into it. Sometimes it just kind of, you drop the bombs.
Well, you get the sense that he either was just as stubborn and controlling with like releasing that information as he is in the immediate thing.

Or I think some guys that are like that just don't understand that it has affected them in that way. I mean, who knows? But I was under the impression that maybe he just like wasn't there yet.
but then the thing that was really interesting about them was then

Orna would go and speak to her therapist

about how she was getting very triggered specifically by him and that was like at this extra dynamic that was really interesting and she was kind of talking about how she needed to make sure she was providing like fair and equal counsel, but she was like so annoyed by him. Yeah, that is interesting.
Really interesting. I think there's multiple like people like this.
Like he's one of the people who says to her, I could do your job. Yeah.
Yeah, I couldn't believe that. That was crazy.
Can you imagine the gall? Do you have a favorite couple? I like, there's a couple in season two. That's really great.
It's two men. One of them is a ballet dancer.
One of them- Oh, they were great. They were great.
And one of them like had a really harrowing journey with like sobriety. And then the pandemic happened.
Then the pandemic happened. And then there's this one couple, there's a problem couple in season three and she, Orna talks to Virginia and she talks to a peer group of other therapists.
Yeah. And all of them like help her crack this one couple because it's, she hits a wall, she's like, I don't know what to put it on.
everything the guy was stonewalling and there's such a sensational clip of her like they play at the beginning of the season where she just like they're screaming and she goes I'm gonna stop you guys right now I'm not the right therapist for you and then you're like oh you're like how does it get there how does it get there you watch it there was also that great there was a great couple that was she was a dancer in the Lion King yes and like she was like she was always busy at night and so she could never have dinner with the family and her kids and like it was like a thing he's like well you're never home for dinner it's like I'm in the Lion King and you knew this when you married me because she had been in the Lion King for like 40 years it's never ending she had been in the Lion King for as long as the earth has been spinning. Yeah, yeah.
That's the best job. What a job, hey.
I know. That's security.
Are you a therapy icon? Am I who? Are you a therapy icon? Yeah. Yeah.
I meant The Lion King being what a job. Oh, also that it's both.
Honestly, I can't believe I was never not in it. I can't believe I was ever.
No, I can't believe I was ever not in it because I love it so much. In therapy.
Oh, again. I think you meant the show.
I was like, well, Lion King. I don't think there's many roles for me in The Lion King on Broadway, but I would love to help out.
I'll do ushering. You play giraffe.
But no, therapy's great. Therapy's great.
Speaking of great. Speaking of great.
The album is fucking sublime. Yeah, good for you.
And I'm glad you responded. It seemed like you responded positively when I made a comparison to XCX World.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course.
No, you're right. And I think, yeah, you nailed it.
Nailed it. It's so fucking good.
We love you, Charlie. I love you both.
Thank you for everything you've done.

Thank you for having me.

Of course.

This was pretty fun.

Let's end every episode with a song.

I'm breaking every rule for you.

Oh, wow.

That's one of my favorites, too.

Wait, why do I love all your bells?

You know what I love?

Official.

Official.

It's a fan favorite.

Official.

Official reminds me of Jared.

It's when we first...

Is that a boyfriend?

He was my boyfriend.

Now he's my best friend.

We figured it out in a way that... Thank you.
It's a fan favorite. Official reminds me of Jared.
It's when we first... He was my boyfriend.

Now he's my best friend.

We figured it out in a way that I hope that couples therapy couple did.

But Official was like...

I was like, whoa, the little things are happening that make me feel like I can go the distance.

That's so nice.

Great writing.

These are the things that can make us official.

Bye.

Bye.