"Four Seasons Ambassador" (w/ Natasha Rothwell)

This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires.
She gets the courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend, Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX's Dying for Sex, all episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu.
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All episodes of Mid-Century Modern are now streaming on Hulu. Look, Matt.
There. Oh, I see.
Wow. Bowen, look over there.
Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness.
Wow. Las Culturistas.
Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling.
A day of days. A day of days.
A day that feels right in the heart, the soul, the mind, the body. You know what I was thinking this morning? I was like, this is someone we've actually wanted on this podcast since we started it.
And by the way, we should say, shout out to anyone who voted for us for podcast of the year, which we won for a second time. Yes.
And it's nine years in. And I'm just thinking about like, I know our guest is here today.
And it's someone we've looked up to since, but even before we started the podcast and all these years later, it feels like a wonderful little moment. So thank you all for that.
And also just to have our guest in this like star ascending moment. It's just like, it's feeling, I'm a little emotional.
I'm a little emotional. This is someone who, and wonderful vulture piece on our guest.
And it just made me realize what we've known along, which is, oh, this is someone who both is someone and plays people that you just root for. We just love you so much.
I know. It's so mutual.
This is like a decade in the making. It's no, seriously.
And like, and so basically we're about to bring our guest in, but just know, like, I mean, obviously the White Lotus, Insecure, How to Die Alone. I mean, there's so much to talk about, but for me, I was literally, when we finally met our, I finally, like, really in person met our guest, which feels crazy, like, the other night after the Oscars, and I was like, you know, you to me will always be that flight attendant in that UCB.
UCB basement. If you know, you know.

On mod night.

Not even UCB.

This is a UCB pitizen.

This is a story pirate in the house.

We are three.

Three pitizens in the room.

Three pitizens in the room.

Is that title of that?

No.

Oh my God.

I'll jump.

Wait, we got to bring her.

Let's go. Let's go.
Everyone, welcome to your ears. Natasha Roswell! Thank you for having me.
Thank you for coming on. Oh my God, you guys are making me emosh.
Sorry. It's an emotion moment.
But that's like so special. You know what I mean? To just have those people that are from way back that you knew were special then pop off.
Like, and that happens all the time now, I feel. I feel that about you two.
Are you kidding me? What a gosh. I think game recognize game.
And like, even like on our come up, watching the two of you work, like it's just, you know, you know. But you know that I was going through the whole process of screen testing for SNL, then being offered to write.
And reaching out to you and being like what do you think I should do because I just respected you to the fucking mountains and at that point you were already insecure like Kelly was already like the one and I was just like Natasha had such a unique everyone has a unique journey there and you had a very unique journey and I was just just like, I need to know. Cause at that point I'm going to say like, you could count on like one or two hands, the number of writers of color, let's say not to put it on those, those lines, but like, it was like a meaningful thing to reach out to you.
Yeah. I remember when you did.
And I remember saying that like, it was hard for me, but like the juice was worth the squeeze. Right.
Because it's just like going through that, you know, iron sharpens iron, you become better at what you do. And it wasn't perfect.
And I have notes. Yes, we all do.
But I think ultimately it was the stamp in my passport, you know, professionally that I needed to open some doors that I think I would have eventually opened, but maybe take a little longer to do. So, yeah.
Totally. I mean, does being back in New York make you reflect on this? Obviously, right? Yes.
Yeah. Like, it's like...
Like from the Pitt days to the UCB days to the SNL, like on every level. On every level.
Like, you know, like in a car where it says like, you know in this mirror are closer than they appear like for me that's like literally being so broke that I was like picking up metro cards off of the ground at the train stations on my way home to check them the next morning and so like having calling my mom in fucking South Jersey to order me pizza in Brooklyn from Jersey because I didn't have anything in the bank. And it's just you had Jersey pizza.
That's not bad. Which is a better pizza than a lot of New York pizza.
I can say this, too. When you're outside of the city, they take their time on the pizza.
Right. Right.
Right. That's actually real culture.
Number 46. When they're outside of the city, they take their time on the pizza.
That's true. Yeah.
yeah but no i'm full of gratitude and even just writing here today so much of my experience in new york was based on where i was my social socioeconomic level and i feel like for every different stratosphere there's a different version of the city yeah so the version of the city that i'm getting to know now it's different than the one that i knew but i miss the one that that i used to know you know what i mean yeah i miss that kind of like hustle and that grind i was i was never more poor uh-huh than i was when i was grinding in comedy but i was so happy yeah you know what i mean like the early mornings for like a story pirate show like made made like an early call time scene. Like, whatever.

tech for your mod show at like 3 a.m.

You know,

and paying for it.

Talk about notes.

This again is the old UCB.

But no,

but I mean,

like,

it's really something like when I remember I had taken like a long time away

from New York,

probably because of the pandemic,

obviously.

And then I got back and my immediate instinct, it was raining a little bit. I was like, I'm still going to take a walk.
And I did have like, I don't know why I'm frightened. Looking around sort of really getting tearful because we did like this is this is really where we grew up.
Oh, yeah. When people ask me because I'm an Air Force brat and I grew up all over, I was just like, but I became an adult in New York.
I found out my voice in New York. I made mistakes in New York.
New York truly raised me. And so even though I didn't live here super long, it's only eight years, but even just driving here, I was just looking at cars like, I remember crying on that corner.
I remember that bagel shop, that ATM lets you take it out. You can get a five out.
Yeah. Oh, wow.
Tell us about that. I found one.
So it's like all of those things. And you're just like, oh, I'm so grateful to have had that.
And it feels like a collective experience, you know, like no one quite knows what we went through. And the improv industrial complex is like that, like the pipeline from improv to TV.
Like it's not what it used to be. You know, like they don't have it like we did.
Like there was a time of being in New York or LA doing comedy in the way that we did where it felt like so cool anytime. And it felt kind of frequent, I'll say is the word, but like it felt like there was a regularity and like, oh, this person got raptured up into the show business.
Yes, yes. And now I feel like, I feel like I'm not, like my ear isn't to the ground maybe, but like, I don't know.
I don't know like of that same sort of like machinery that's happening. Yeah.
I mean, I don't either, but the scuttlebutt is that it's maybe not the same as it used to be. And I think that like the, the beauty of what was, it was, you know, like, if you liken, you know, UCB to like Catholicism and then the pit to like, you know, Protestants.
I'm dying. I felt like we were all worshiping the God of comedy.
100%. Wow.
Do you know what I mean? And it's just like, when you go through that kind of like radicalization, it's just like, you see someone else and you're just like zip, you know? Yeah, 100%. I'm about to get VeggieTales.
VeggieTales, that's right. That's right.
Hilarious. I'm about to get a little niche, but like when you were, because I remember, because we were pit people because we weren't embraced by UCB at the very start.
Yeah. It actually took us a little bit.
Same. Is that the same with you? You were like, because you were one of the queens of the pit and I remember thinking of you being like, well, Natasha's here at the pit putting in the hard yards and like that means that like we'll get to UCB.
Natasha's on the poster. Like these are our alums.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I just remember I had come to New York with six years of main stage experience in DC, like Washington Improv Theater and tried to jump the line at UCB of just like I've been doing this for like professionally six years and I've been teaching and they're like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
Take a number. I was like, okay.
And then I went to the pit and Ali was just like, oh, like you can teach. Like, and so I was able to start teaching and then I auditioned and got on a team.
And so. So bless the pit then for like, bless the pit.
It's also where they held the showcase for SNL when I auditioned, it was at the pit. Oh, that was a famous night.
That was a famous night. That was a big night.
And so it was just, I think the pit allowed folks to be a little bit more, yeah, it's less rigid than the Catholicism of the UCB. I remember also feeling like, yeah, than the Catholics.
I remember at the time, like, there was something really performative about that space. Like, because you're a performer.
You're a real performer. And I remember thinking, I think we identified that as that too, maybe because UCB felt like very, it felt like cerebral, you know what I mean? Like you had to learn a language that like those guys were speaking.
But at the pit, it felt like you could, maybe it was just like the proscenium, the literal stage. It felt like it was welcoming a different kind of performer.
And I kind of felt enthusiastic

about that opportunity.

No, I loved the Pitt stage.

And it was so much fun also

to meet the folks

that were like devoutly Pitt.

Yes.

And would never go to UCB.

I know, it was so fun.

And I just felt like an interloper

where I'm just like,

nah, I gotta go to UCB later,

but I'm gonna do this show now.

Which like, that's the best, though.

That's the best. And, like, shout out to

the Magnet people. Like, Magnet people, too.

Magnet is still

such a wonderful vibe. The Baptists.

Yeah, they were Baptists.

Listen, we have figured it out.

Yes.

Magnet, we're the Baptists.

By the end of this episode, we'll figure out what the Groundlings is.

Even though we're not L.A. people, but we're gonna

figure it out. And Second City and all that stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, I just remember

I don't know. By the end of this episode, we'll figure out what the groundlings is.
Even though we're not LA people, but we're going to figure it out. And Second City and all that stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just remember seeing you at the pit doing the flight attendant.
And I was just like, okay, this is someone who... She's going to go the fucking distance.
You know what I mean? I think you are one of those people who we just modeled ourselves after. Anytime there was a story, Pirates story, that there would be a link to every story every stock story.
I feel like were you in like Emergency Poncho? It was like a Story Pirates sketch called Emergency Poncho about a kid that gets a poncho put on him at a meds game because it starts raining and it became musical and you were in the tutorial for it and that was the one one of the ones we always did. I i'm actually dead we really are like emergency poncho emergency poncho see that's like i remember like the story parts of it all really pushing me forward because i'm like yes the community the community is what's important.
And that remains true.

And I feel like something about you is

you're always in an amazing ensemble

and you always put together

an amazing ensemble.

You just won the Indie Spirit Award

for ensemble in a new series

and with our pal Conrad.

And, you know,

even that connection too.

Like, you know,

Fire Island being this great ensemble

and I see you in obviously Insecure

and now famously

two seasons of The White Lotus

and you're in that family

the You know, even that connection too. I know.
Fire Island being this great ensemble. And I see you in obviously Insecure and now famously two seasons of The White Lotus.
Yeah. And you're in that family.
That's obviously not an accident. It's like you're not like booking purposefully these things, but it seems to follow you.
Yeah. I'm always drawn to the collaborative arts.
I think that's why I never like I have deference for stand up, but it's never been my bag because I don't want to fail alone. Do you know what I mean? To me, it's just like, can we get a team together to believe in one thing? And even if we lose, it's together.
So there's still a win. And I also find that in and again, like it does feel like it's chosen me more than I've chosen it.
But I feel like of the ensembles that have chosen me, my entry point is always sort of with a character that's kind of carrying sort of like the torch of empathy. Yeah.
And I think that's just innate in me. That's how I move through the world.
And so whether nature or nurture, I'm always drawn to parts and characters that bring humanity to people who look like me. You know what I mean? And I don't consider it like an obligation or sort of like a burden to me I get excited by that opportunity yeah and that's like when I sat down with Mike for White Lotus season one I had reservations because at that point he hadn't had the scripts written and but I loved him I'm talking like love him from Freaks and Geeks and Lightened

all the way through

you know

Good Girl

everything And, but I loved him. I'm talking like love him.

I'm from freaks and geeks enlightened all the way through, you know, good girl, everything. But then he is so good.
Right. But then he hit, then my, my team's just like, okay.
And I was like, well, how many in the cast are people of color? And it was just like, it's you. And then there's one other girl, but like, mostly it's like you.
And so I'm in a servile position. And I was like, that didn't like make me want to, you know, say no.
I was just like, is he going to collaborate with me to help sort of like discover this character? And we found that empathy. We found that like heart and the big heart of who she was.
So yeah, for me, characters and empathy are always sort of like the true north. And then he kind of has this empathetic sort of instinct with you where it's like he went page by page yeah with belinda and it's like okay like what's the deal here like yeah and you get to be like oh i want her to wave hello at this family that's at the resort like those moments that moment really stuck out to me and then reading this this piece and seeing all these interviews that you're doing talk about that specific thing I'm like this is this is the importance of like of Belinda as a character of you as an actor and it's important of directors to know who they have and how to utilize them like we have the same hyphenates Mike and I we're both actors we're both writers we're both directors and so as we were able to sit down and geek out.
And he's so aware that he's not a Black woman, right? And so he's just like, well, what are the ways that we can add that authenticity? And I tell him all the time, I was just like, I wish more directors took a page from that book of being able to know I have a deficit, but this character or this actor who's playing this character might be a resource to me, but I have to humble myself to do that. And Mike is one of the kindest, most humble, like gentle, sweet souls that I've ever met.
And so for him to do that with me, season one, and I was fucking nobody season one, you know, like, I mean, Kelly was, I mean, Kelly was a thing, but also it was just like, well, anyway, maybe I should say, I should say, I felt like, why was he listening to me? Yeah. It would be hard to walk into an ensemble cast like that and be like, yep, of course.
And so like, I felt so like ahead of my skis, but he was so excited.

And then when, you know,

I was asked back for season three,

he was like, when are we going to Zoom?

I was like, I got you, boo.

So we like did that.

We chopped it up again.

One of my favorite things about this season,

the characterization of Belinda is it does feel like there's a little bit more you in there.

Like some of my favorite moments

are when you're in your place of like,

attitude is gratitude. And then a lizard will jump out and it will be a full shutdown.
Like I feel like that humor and that sort of on guardness, it's yes, it's like it serves as just great comedic relief in any of these given moments, especially interacting with the environment, which is so much of what the show is about. But also it's for, it speaks to the fact that like, you're dealing with less bullshit now.
Like, you are a version of Belinda now that is like, no. Fuck that.
I will self-preserve. So it means more to me than just those small interactions.
And where we find Belinda right now in this season, and we've seen the six episodes so far, is a place of true fear and existential terror because she's now being like, you know, Greg is in the midst. And they see each other in a real way.
So I wonder, like, what do you think of that progression and where do you think she's at and going? I love this question. So for me, when we see her at the end of season one, right, it's like she is devastated.
Her hopes were dashed. And then we see her starting something new, doing something that's, you know, out of her comfort zone.
And I feel like when we do that, it speaks to hope and optimism. So it speaks to some kind of,

between the time we last saw her and when we meet her, she's grieved that loss and is trying again. Finally.
Finally. And when you meet someone on sort of like the precipice of change and like, you know, in entertaining optimism, it's an exciting role to play because she's doing something familiar.
Yes, it's massage, but it's in a completely different country. She learning a new technique she's raising the bar for herself and when we see her in six all of the hope that she has is now being threatened by greg and her son is there yeah so mama bear's kicking in so she can't just recede which is what she's used to doing when you know things get bad or scary now it's fight or flight and bitch is gonna fight you know like we want to see that activation yeah is she gonna be successful i hope fucking so it's like to pit her against you know greg in this way i think mike was so smart in the writing because it's it's the recognition is so heavy and it hits so hard when audiences see that.
And he's very sinister. And John in real life, he's such a dear friend.
He's also so sweet. You can tell.
Like so sweet. But when he got in character, there's one take.
Great actor. Oh, I jumped.
I was like, you can't smile at me like that. Because he would just like smile and like raise his eye.
I was like, yeah. And the variations of that character he's given us.
Like, you really don't know if in that very first scene he appeared in in season one, if that was a long con from the beginning, if it was something he figured out. There's so many things that are under the surface, obviously with every character, but him being sort of the big boss of the show now at this point, the main antagonist of the show, every time you see him, it gets scary because it didn't start that way.
Yeah. And you know what he's capable of.
Yeah, literally. Right.
So it's just like, hmm. It's all in that first interaction that you two have this season, though, I feel, where you approach him at dinner.
I love that scene. Yeah.
It's both of you volleying it in this way that is like incredibly tense. Like you're not looking like you're not like on your phone while you're watching the show.
Yeah. It's like it's one of those.
And I bring that up because this is a bad habit of mine now where I'm just like, OK, whatever I'm putting on a real. Our broken brains.
Yeah. You know what I mean? But like this is the thing that I think we're talking about, which is you can fill in the gaps as a viewer on Belinda's journey between one and three seasons, one and three, where it's like her hopes were dashed.
She has convalesced in the intervening time of like, I'm going to self-start again, like since being disappointed and feeling like I had this life preserver thrown at me. Yeah.
I feel like the empathy that she, in the favor that she couraged season one is there. And we see that like, she has found a way to do that for herself, you know, like support herself and cheer herself on.
And yeah. And I also think like, it's fun to see her on a quasi vacation because like we all have these vacation identities that we try on when we go out.
It's like you know what i got my vacation braids on let me like go out and wear these shoes that i've taken the tag off i never wore them before but i wear them now yeah so it's just like playing with identity and like who she wants to be and i think it's really beautiful to play with someone who's such you know putty ready to be molded yeah and now she's about to be molded by circumstance. Right.
Yeah. I wonder how many months cumulatively have you spent living in Four Seasons? Oh, boy.
Or a resort. Is it like almost a year doing this show? Oh, it'd be more because I did Sonic in Hawaii and that was Four Seasons as well.
Oh, wow. So you're a membership.
I basically, like at this point, if they don't make me an ambassador, I don't know what else. I don't know what else I need to do.
It might scare people though. Like, did you hear about that cruise? That's like, we'll take you to all the White Lotus locations.
You can have a White Lotus inspired vacation. It's some vacation package.
Hawaii to Thailand to Italy. Yeah, like there's something you can do.
That's a choice. Well, first of all, it's Greg money.
It's Greg money. But also, to have a White Lotus-inspired vacation, it's like, you know what happens in the show, right? People are doing it.
A lot of stuff. Yeah.
Someone set on set was just like, they must have the best PR team. They don't let, they bury it all.
Pun intended. Pun intended.
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This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires.
She gets the courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend, Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX is dying for sex.
All episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu. Okay, so we have to ask you the question that we ask all of our guests.
And I'm excited to ask you this, which was, what is the culture, Natasha Rothwell, that made you say culture was for you? I thought about this question a lot. Also because I'm a fan of the show.
And so I was just like, and I will say also, I've been trying to get on the show for 10 years, but my schedule has been so dumb. No, I mean like, we've been trying it.
We've been chasing each other. But this is the moment.
This is right now. Yeah.
And I'm like low-key embarrassed about what I'm about to say, but it so true and it is the movie Grease let's go at least you picked the best movie of all time and I will say I feel like Grease 2 is not talked about enough no certainly not let's talk about it I just feel like one you have a girl for all seasons we have Cool Rider I feel like we get to see like michelle pfeiffer getting dirty she's straddling a ladder yeah um but greece like the og yeah i just watched i like i wore out the vhs yeah like it would be on my letterboxd for i think oh if i ever get asked that question by that incredible organization yes i will say one word Grease., Greece, and then I'll figure out the other three. But like, what is it about it for you? Because for me, I think there's something about, it's some amalgamation of like the costumes and the way that actors are committed to those insane characterizations and obviously the incredibly catchy music.
But is there anything specific for you? Well, the music but also like i grew up in the church very chaste and so i relayed it with a you know sandra d yes good girl gone bad come on i was like give me that i was like yeah so it was so much fun watching someone just like get pursued by the bad boy and like there was all of this kind of kind of like, you know, it felt Austinian because they're like longing. You know, there's just this tension of just like, when are they going to kiss? And it just, the tension.
And it's just the tension plate. Like we don't even get to see that, like the magic of that until like the end.
Yeah. Cause I'm then cha-cha.
Do you go? The best dancer at St. Bernadette.
I think it's one of those things that like the magic of that until like the end yeah because and then cha-cha diagorio the best dancer at saint bernadette i think it's one of those things that like by osmosis i do know every line and i think maybe most people do and don't even realize it yeah it'll come on and then every once in a while it's just like oh i don't know where my keys are but i know exactly the vhs of grace would be like at any sort of like rented apartment that you would like you would go to on a family trip yeah it would be like in like the person's like closet or something for me the thing about grace which is the thing that musicals on some level should be because they are musicals because the emotion is so heightened that they yeah you can't do anything but sing is that it's the highest fantasy a fantasy in the best way. They drive off in the car.
Yes, into the sky. Into the sky.
Beauty school dropout. I was like, are you kidding me? He came from heaven.
That's actually not talked about enough. It's rule of culture number eight.
Beauty school dropout. He came from heaven.
He came from heaven. He literally came down to give her her guidance.
I also think that when it came out, I wanted to perform. And I saw that as such a...
It was catharsis on screen where I was just like, I want to do something where I get to build it up to that point. And my God.
It's like the spirit inside you wants emulate that. That is like the strongest link that you can have as like a viewer.
Yeah. And it's so funny, too, because like the movie couldn't be more white.
But like, for me, it was more about like the good versus evil, like bad and good. And like, I was able to sort of watch it through that lens.
And I mean, just the jackets, like everything about it. I just remember watching it and like doing the little, like, you know, like the little shit.
Everyone had, I remember when, when I was little, we would do like our little dance contest. Like that's one of the things that me and my friends would do like me and the girls.
it was always you're the one that I want it was always summer night oh please one of the best group numbers in any musical ever so good it's so good and also then when you get a little older and you can really appreciate the depth of there are worst things I could do and Rizzo I mean come on I believe this is my like hot take that might be a cold take because everyone might have it. Stocker Channing, that should have been an Oscar nomination.
I agree. What she brought to There Are Worst Things I Could Do, that's a moment in movies.
It is everything. And like you see her, because didn't she have an, or she had an abortion or she lost the babe or something.
She lost the baby. It was like a false alarm or something.
Oh yeah, it was a false, something like that. It was like, it was a false alarm.
She's having these conversations. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. baby it was like a false alarm oh yeah something like that it was like it was a false alarm she's having this conversation yes yeah and that's like that's a lot and the whole movie is a lot like they're talking about like you know during Grease Lightning that is those are some weird that is and I that was that was my kind of like chase brain missed that until I was much older and then I was like oh no right I know what that's about you know what that's about did you do musicals in high school that until I was much older.
And then I was like, oh no, right. I know what that's about.

You know what that's about.

Did you do musicals in high school?

I did.

I was Mama Rose.

You were not.

See,

you need to take over for Audra.

I know.

And I met Audra

when I was in college.

She came to visit

University of Maryland

and we were doing

You Can't Take It With You.

Oh God.

And she was in the hallway and I have this like fun picture of me and her back then. But wow.
You guys did obviously musicals in high school. We did musicals.
He did. I didn't.
Oh, yeah. He was like a Zach I brought in high school musical, like was an athlete, but like secretly wanted to perform.
It's your dad's sports, sports. Sports, sports, sports.
But that wasn't really what held me back. All he wanted me to do was be involved.
It was more just like gay on Long Island. Right.
All stuff up here. But I found it eventually.
Yeah. I just want to own up to the fact that Natasha said I was Mama Rose and my brain glitched and I thought you meant Mama Morton from Chicago.
Both Tordeforses and Tordeforses. I never done Morton, but I did meet Queen Latifah at the variety party.
That was really nice. She came up to me.
She was amazing. She was amazing.
She shines. There's something about her that like, it's, I remember I met her years ago when I was doing the NYU newspaper and I went to go interview her for Secret Life of Bees.
Oh, I love that. And she came in with her platinum blonde hair and sat down and just, it was like, oh, now I know what it's like to be in the presence of a superstar.
She is royalty. She radiates.
She is a queen. Yeah.
Yeah. Obsessed.
Mama Rose, that is, I need to see that. You do need to take over for Audra.
I had my, the guy who played my husband in that show was so gay. He was so gay.
Herbie. So Herbie.
He was so gay. And the kiss that we have was on, like, I believe it was on the cheek.
I was just like, what? Like, I believe it was on the cheek. I believe it was on upon my cheek.
I just remember there was, I mean, it was so bootleg. It was high school, right? The have an egg roll, Mr.
Goldstone. Yeah, sure.
All of that. We had like a prop issue and it wasn't there.
And I did improv, right? I've been doing improv since high school. Did you object work yet? Yeah.
And people were just like, that was a choice. And like, oh, I didn't know.
And my director was like, thanks for saving the scene. I was like, you got it was just like embarrassing what no that is my most embarrassing moment was auditioning for wait my fair lady my fair lady this was my junior year or my sophomore year and I decided to learn sign language to the song that I was going to sing to because I didn't have confidence in my pipes.

And so I forgot the lyrics

to the song

or the sign halfway through

singing it, but my hands were already

extended and moving, so it was just interpretive

dance. I don't even

remember what I was singing, but I just remember I was just

moving my hands and I left sobbing.

But wait a minute. But I was cast.

But you were cast? But I'm saying there's something

special about that audition. You need the room

I'm going to go But wait a minute. But I was cast.
But you were cast. But I'm saying, there's something special about that audition.
You leave the room and I'm like, I don't know what that was. I want her in my show.
I want her in my show. I want that movement.
Because it's going to be fun to watch. Oh, boy.
Half signing, sobbing. It was so it was just, yeah, it was a clusterfuck of beauty.
No, but like this is the Natasha Rothwell thing of i'm gonna power through yeah and it's gonna be compelling enough and you're gonna fucking gal you love it you know there's anything about me it's like it takes a lot for me to give up generally yeah and to the point of like and i think it's also my brain i'm neuro spicy a lot and so i love solving problems yes so like a no or like some like i'm just like oh that's just i'll figure it out or i'll work through it's an obstacle currently yes but it will not be the definitive answer correct but to be neuro spicy and to be like collaborative is killer combo. I feel.

I think, yeah, it's a one-two punch,

but I also have learned more of myself in my forties.

It's like, I'm now a boundaried baddie because I know that I've recharged solo.

And I knew that before,

but I am a people pleaser, recovering people pleaser.

So like I would exhaust myself as I'm sure you know,

it's just like, I will give until there's nothing left. I think we all understand that.
When did you clock that and adjust that? I want to say in my 30s, I felt that, well, SNL kind of happened in my mid 30s. And it was around that time where it was just like, you know, you understand when you're on the show, you have to promise them everything.

And making time for other people came at like a cost.

And so it was one of those things of like,

I could hang out with you and make you feel good

and I would feel good for making you feel good,

but then I would be like a shell of a human tomorrow.

And so having to make those calls.

And then I think it's still taken me,

I mean, I'm still in the process of releasing the guilt

Thank you. a shell of a human tomorrow.
And so having to make those calls. And then I think it's still taken me.
I mean, I'm still in the process of releasing the guilt I have for choosing me. And do you know what I mean? So like, even though I've learned how to do it, it's still like not letting go of that guilt and consider myself worthy of, you know, the choice.
But the guilt probably, and this is not like me saying this in a dire way way like i've learned to just not accept it but live with it because it's going to regenerate itself with every interaction with every choice you make for yourself it comes with that little tax yeah you know what i mean yeah that guilt tax there's a guilt tax you know guilt tax and i think too like the the amount of guilt tax you pay decreases the longer you're in therapy. Oh.
So for me, the more I've worked on myself, I used to have to pay a heavy toll and now I pay a lot less. And maybe I'll have an easy pass at one point and I don't have to worry about it.
But then they'll throw congestion prices. I know.
Yeah. It's impossible.
It's impossible. I think for me, it was like, it was honestly the pandemic.
It was being forced to be alone that made me realize, like, maybe I've always needed this. You know what I mean? Listen, I was three months in and I was just like, I'm good.
Right? Do you remember feeling like that? I was like, oh, wow. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then you deal with the anxiety of when things lifted. I remember feeling like, am I crazy and weird for feeling like I don't want to necessarily go back to the life I had because I was exhausted all the time.
All the time. Because I think that it also connects back to us having to grind so hard.
Yeah. Like I think that we all have different experiences of not being in exactly the mold of what was, you know, out there being shown as like a successful comedian, whatever it is.
And I remember feeling like, oh, I have no choice but to exhaust myself because they won't just give the opportunities. There will be someone that they see in a more one-to-one way.
Yeah. So all of a sudden your wheels have spun so fast in your twenties and into your thirties.
And then something says like, Hey, cosmically we're stopping. And then it's like, that was when I was like, Oh, thank God I'm in therapy because I have to deal with the fact that I don't want to rejoin society.
Yeah. Hmm.
Hmm. Interesting.
But wait, so would you, would you say that it's like an opposite track in terms of like what Mel goes through and how to die alone? It's like, this is someone who wants to sort of like break out of her solitude in a way. Yeah.
Right? I think it's also, I basically wrote the show as kind of like a love letter to that unhealed version of myself where it's just like, I don't even know if she knows herself enough to decide what it is, you know? Like, so it's breaking out of the comfort of the known and going into the unknown. And I think in doing that, it's not guaranteed that you're going to love it.
You know what I mean? Like you might hit, and that's why we always called her like our human Roomba. Like you hit wall after wall after wall, but you're still getting your shit clean.
And so like for her being able to like make those mistakes and like take risks and figure out if she is a people person.

You don't know if you don't allow people in your life. And I do think that like aspirationally, I tacked her affinity for being around people onto the character.

Because for me, and I love people, but I'm a small dose girl.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Like I love, give me like y'all two conversation. I will talk for eight hours.
And then we'll be good for a little bit. Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? Like I love, give me like y'all two conversation.

I will talk for eight hours

and then we'll be good

for a little bit.

Yeah.

And that's perfect.

And that's perfect.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

A room full of people

like don't need it.

See,

how were you the other night

then at Vanity Fair

while we saw you?

Like,

cause that,

that I get really anxious

about those things.

And then I find when I'm there,

I'm okay.

And I'm actually like,

there's even enjoying it sometimes, but it takes me a lot to drag ass there. I, okay.
How do I say this? So I get invited back. No, no, no, no, no, no.
We love being there. So I loved being there.
My default is not that environment. Of course.
And so I parked myself towards the entrance and i people watch that's kind of my happy place yeah so i was just watching the like the looks come in watching the people watching conversations and i tend to default in any environment not just high stakes oscar weekend parties i want to find a corner i want to. And then I want to find like a person or a couple of people that I'm going to have probably a oversharing conversation.
You know, I'm like, yeah, whatever, like, let's get in. So what about your father? Yeah.
Like type of conversations. An anchor anchor.
Yeah. And so I went there.
I took a propranolol because of beta blocking. So that way my nerves don't get the best of me.

I brought the director of development of my production company.

And she was tasked by my publicist to make sure that I did turns around the room.

Oh, that's an amazing accountability.

Can we make sure that Natasha does at least some turns?

Just turns around the room.

So I would sit there and then she'd be like, you ready to go do a lap? And I'm like, okay. And then I do a lap.
That's Austinian as fuck. It is, right? A turn around the room.
A turn around the room. A turn about the room.
I should have said that as the pop culture that changed my life. The miniseries.
Oh, of course. Pride and Prejudice.
Absolutely. But now Greece wins.
But Greece is, I mean, first of all, connecting Greece as Austinian is important. I feel like I did some work just then.
You did. What you did was you taught the children.
I taught the children just now. And it's been a while since we genuinely taught the children, I feel.
We have not taught the children in a long time. No, we haven't taught the children.
We're just chasing the new, and now it's like, no, let's go back and teach them. Okay, so you did a couple, you did a walk about the room, and and it was good it was good and it's it's

i don't this sounds so like fucking twee and like i'm like but it was so cool to see people that i've

only ever seen on tv and film yeah and like i'm not someone who fangirls because i do feel that

there's a distance between me and them yes even though i'm in the same room and this isn't some

kind of like woe is me like you know um imposter syndrome bullshit it's really just like you reside

I'll see the same room. And this isn't some kind of like, woe is me, like, you know, imposter syndrome bullshit.
It's really just like, you reside on that stratosphere and you're allowed to be there. And I just, my joy is just observing, you know? So that was my journey that night was just like watching.
I did go up to one person. You'll never guess.
One person out of all of the people there. Okay.
I didn't approach anyone but this one person. Is this someone? I'm trying to think who we saw.
Is this someone who has been around for a while? A long time. Okay.
I'm going to say I'm going to say Billy Crystal. Oh, was he? No.
Because now I'm thinking, because honestly, what I'm realizing is that we did what you said, but it was with Jon Hamm at the bar. And so we were so happy to just park with him.
Hi. And so now I'm realizing I didn't see a lot of people, so I can't even guess.
So I'm just going to throw out a guess and say, Lifgow. No, Jon Waters.
Oh, Jon Waters was there? So he was there. Oh my God.
So University of Maryland, Maryland girl, Tracy Turnblatt. She was a fatty baddie before I even knew I could be one.
And he was standing there in his suit with the mustache drawn on, pink huge sneakers. So handsome.
And then all these gorgeous starlets were just walking past him. No, no, no.
Not knowing that he was, And so he was by himself. And I was just like, just do it.
It's not just do it. You can go up to him.
Just do it. 100%.
So I go up to him. I was like, excuse me, Mr.
Waters. And he's like, yes.
And I was just like, my name is Natasha Rothwell. I'm a huge fan.
I went to university of Maryland. He was like, Maryland, Baltimore.
I love it. And I was just like, and I, I just thank you for Tracy Turnblatt, like that and everything.
And he was just so warm. And then I just kind of like stood there and then ran away.
That's such a good moment. I love that moment.
I mean, he's such an icon. Yes.
Such an icon. Walking, talking icon.
So that was like a cool moment. And I felt like he felt like he was, even though he wasn't against a wall, but he was like by himself on his phone.
I was like, oh you yeah even you john waters even you are just like yeah you're parked parked you know what i mean yeah and hairspray by the way like in obvious ways and also in spiritual ways that are like not as obvious to Greece yes you know what i mean absolutely i think that like they both dealt with different eras obviously and i feel like the yeah they're're just the culture of Baltimore. He just was such, he's the, you know, the grand poet of Baltimore.
Yeah. Could be Poe, but I think it's him.
It's him. Yeah.
Wait, okay. But this is the thing, like the distance that we feel at these events between ourselves and like the people that are walking by.
Yeah. It like, it works in every direction because I was saying this on our last episode.
Like we were just talking, chatting it up. I think like it was right before I saw you, we saw you.
The person who ran up to me and tapped me on the shoulder and was like, oh my God, thank God you're here. You'll never guess.
Yeah. Megan Thee Stallion.
Shut your mouth. She was like, oh, she was like, hey, oh, hi.
Oh my God, thank God you god you're here like i don't know anybody here and i was just like meg what are you what are you talking about hot girl i'm your like titty out meg she looked amazing i turned around i looked at her and i just go period and she goes back yeah and that was her come in and i was just like oh my god but I feel like everyone I mean I feel like that level of like social anxiety feels so unique right and it's hard to accept that someone else like her is like oh my god I might have said the wrong thing. I'm just like, my areola showing? Yeah, right, right, right.
Mine's was. Page six.
Yeah. No.
It popped out? There's a little, there's a little slip, but it was fine. It was fine.
But no, I feel like I have, my mind just runs a mile a minute. And to know that someone like her is also a head case, It's kind of it's nice, but it's hard to understand.

That's what you have to remember is it's like not only are these all human beings, but they're also human

beings who are in the arts and at one point

like were just like the weirdos that

wanted to be accepted, etc. And this is

a big night for pretty much everyone. Of course,

you know, somewhere in the crowd in there

I'm sure we had our like

major ego narcissist,

but like not that we talked to, you know what I mean? It was kind of nice. Yeah.
This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires.

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All episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu.

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bringing it back to the White Lotus, what I love about it too is it feels like Mike really gets together people who are freaks in a way. It's like, it feels like a theater troupe in a way.
It's not like a collection of celebrities. Like, of course there are those names that you kind of just know that pop out, like your Jennifer Coolidge or Aubrey Plaza, that feels like there's moments of like oh you're Parker Posey like we know who she is but what I love is that it's giving it's like a community of people who are you know as actors and artists and giving them the platform to now be tearing it up on the most popular show in the world.
It's so insane because truly season one was meant to be a limited series one and done. Right.
And so for it to be what it is now, you would think it would change the recipe, but Mike has not changed it. No.
It's like theater camp. Like you go there and every single person there loves the

craft. Yeah.
These words like

the craft and

like being able. I remember when I got

to set, just flew in

crash that night, walk down to set just

to watch. And I stayed and

to watch the girls. They were shooting

that like their first breakfast scene. Three ladies.

Yes. I was just like, oh, I'm just watching Masterclass.

Like I'm just like watching them cook. Like I'm it was so cool to be like, oh, yeah, the three ladies.
Yes. And I was just like, oh, I'm just watching Masterclass.
Like, I'm just like watching them cook. Like, it was so cool to be like, oh yeah, we're back.
And it felt like the same pure show that I was on originally. It's the DNA.
Everything is still there. Even though they got a bigger budget.
You know what I mean? But like, and more cast members, but like each person, I mean, like you said, everyone's a freak. Everyone's obsessed about what they do.
And each of them brings something so special and unique. I mean, I'm working with Leslie Bibb now and I was, I was watching her like process and I'm like, wow, I didn't, I was like, she really has like this amazing process and she's so excellent.
And then I obviously knew she was cast in White Lotus, but I'm watching White Lotus and I was thinking back to, you know,

watching her do what she does

and I'm like,

this has to be like such an exciting environment

because you know that's the way Carrie Coon does it.

Like I'm loving Michelle Monaghan on the show.

And also,

again,

like the idea of

the very specific examination

of three old fans on a vacation.

It's one of my favorite storylines.

I told Mike,

because I binged the whole show

when I got all the scripts and so, and that was one of the first things. I was just like, you have embodied adult female friendship in a way where I'm just like, it was uncanny.
And something specific, so specific about one of them being a TV star. Oh, God.
Right? That's paid for it. Yes.
Which I feel like, and now that we're getting to the point where it's like, you kind of get the sense that she's, you know, gonna maybe use that or something. Might bring it up.
Might bring it up. Like, might do the big boss vacation friend thing.
It's getting so thick in that way. And just like the way that she ticks and the way I can't decide.
And this is a huge testament. Like I'm talking to some people who are like, oh, those women really hate each other.
But then I'm like, no, I think they really love each other, but are just frustrated by the way life has changed them. Yeah.
And they're, I think they're all really trying to connect with each other. I don't think that it's a, of course they've got their envies and jealousies and like their own personal insecurities, but I don't think we're watching three women that hate each other.
Well, I think that like, and I don't know if you guys find this, like when I go back home for the holidays or whatever, you revert back to the version of yourself when you're around people who knew you when yeah and so I feel like what we're seeing is them in high school and middle school behaving with or trying to communicate with their actions instead of their words right yes and so there's this passive aggressiveness and I think it looks like a lack of emotional intelligence when they all possess it, but they're opting not to. I think because when these three are gathered, they turn back into the versions of their self that felt jilted, that felt like they did everything, that felt like their beauty was all that there is.
And so watching them play those subtleties. And then the tension is they're trying to resist who they were and become who they are are and then they're also all trying to become something else like they're trying to grow together so it's like such an interesting intersection of all of those like all of that tension you know well like when they go into town and they get like hosed down by these kids I love that it kind of is the reset for the or no it's like them being shoved back into adolescence in a way, like they're being picked on.
And then the rest of that day plays out in a way where they're like trying to like compete for like male attention. And that feels like the most dangerous, treacherous teenage circumstance.
Yeah. And it's so well crafted in that.
It's so good. I mean, from the first episode,

her single sob like a child.

That's my favorite.

Cut to, I mean, she's, forget it.

She's next level.

She, and then like Leslie,

like in that episode where it's revealed

that she's got, let's just say,

political differences.

And the way she like looks at them longingly,

like, but there is such a disappointment in herself.

Like, are they right?

And I think that that's something

that's really jumping out towards the end here is,

it's insinuated that they're old the way that Michelle like her line readings of panic about like what are you talking about we're not old we can still have fun to the point where're gonna push, they're gonna push each other into a situation that is truly dire and uncomfortable because youth is all that matters to her or that she's been told that that's all that should matter to her. That's right, that's right.
And there's just, it's really, he's done it again, if you can believe it. Yeah.
How are you and John, I'm curious, how are you guys playing those interactions? Because there is like palpable fear from you. Yeah.
And I'm feeling it watching from home like, oh my God, no, Natasha. Like you're like- Terror.
It's terrifying. Yeah.
And it's also, I think, so we had him on set the whole time, but it was a secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He hung out with us, but it wasn't a ton in the beginning and like it was just like trying like all that kind of stuff and so i think being on set with him was always a treat because i was like oh i get some john time today you know like you know because he was off exploring or doing whatever and he is such a chameleon that like in those moments where he's just like looking at me and then kind of tilts his head and smiles. It's just like my like.

So it just works on you on like a primal level.

Yes.

Like, like the.

And also it's just like it preys upon all of sort of like my natural inclinations to like be liked and wanted.

And like, why does he hate me?

And like, what does he want to do?

And like, you know, how can I fix this? And like, oh, he's a bad guy.

And like, well, do you want it hurt? Like there's she's filled with fear and curiosity at the same time. And that tension is where she's living, which is just like no way to be.
And John is just so, and he, yeah, his character is so antithetical to who he is as a person. And so when he just plays those, when he comes out and surprises me, I watched it and screamed along with myself.
That's how much I was like, oh, I was like, there he goes. Yeah.
Wow. So just to like ask about Mike White as a director, because like he does everything, but I feel like I'm very curious as to the process of like the scene work, because that is what I think is so amazing about the show is the dialogue and the scene work and the small things.
Yeah. Is he

encouraging of any improv?

Like I would imagine with you someone

that's like got such a strong background and someone

that he trusts and has done this like

or is it kind of clinical

on the page because I could see it being either.

He plays. So we're

there's a scene in next

week's episode. I won't spoil anything.

Seven you mean. Seven.
Oh no it's not seven. Is it seven? If it's up through six, we can talk about it.
You can talk about it. Okay, then I won't talk about it.
All right, okay. But what I will say, there are moments where I improvise and there are moments where he wants to get it as written, but will give you direction to play with it.
A fun run. A fun run.
Yeah, but it's less a fun run. It's more just like he wants options.
And I remember I told the cast this because he's unlike any director I've ever worked with. And again, just being such a people pleaser and ever the good student.
If you give me a note, I'm going to do that note. Yeah.
And I will not vary from that. And so he will come in and give a completely opposite note.
And so i take that as i totally fucked up that last note and i remember talking to him about it like season one and he was like no i just want options he's like you nailed it i want options and so and i also know him to be the kind of director like he's not gonna move on until he has it and that's the benefit of like being directed by the guy who's also working alongside an amazing editor john valerio and john valerio he's on set so the editors they're with you so they know oh we got that so i had to take my eagle off the table and that allowed me to work with him as a director in a way that felt like i was having fun yeah i was like i could play around and he also knows like my improv chops and so and some of the scenes

where Belinda's like

you know

having a little bit

of a comedic moment

he's just like

have fun

let's go

that is where the comfort

and the trust lies

in terms of an actor

and a director

where it's like

you're not going to move on

until you're happy

and that way

I'm comforted

in the knowledge

that like

you got it

like that you have

what you need

it takes a minute

to learn that though

you know what I mean

because I think

and maybe this again

speaks to the fact that

Thank you. that way I'm comforted in the knowledge that like you got it like that.
Yeah, you have what you need. It takes a minute to learn that, though.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I think and maybe this again speaks to the fact that it was a lot of self grinding and hard work in so many different areas that there is tends to be, I think, especially when I was like first starting out booking jobs.
I don't know how you guys feel, but it was really never enough in a way that I realized at one point was actually hurting me, not helping me. Like it wasn't helping me to walk away from every setup being like, I didn't do a good enough job.
Because also people can see that. And what they're thinking as a director is, oh, they don't trust me.
They don't know that I got this. Correct.
When that relationship is one of the most important things. Yeah.
And yeah, when you learn that. Yeah.
I've also just like, there's that inner critic, right? That I've had to wrestle my whole life of just like that not enoughness in literally every aspect of my life. Sure.
And I feel like the place that I've gotten to, I have such confidence in my creative and professional life. And that is trickling down into my personal life.
But it took me a long time to be able to, for example, create an award-winning, critically acclaimed TV show and have it canceled and to be like, I did that shit. Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know where it broke down. I don know where it broke down, but I can look back at what I've done with a sense of pride and not enoughness.
And that was a moment where I was just like, oh, a bitch had some growth. And that's a true test.
The speech at the Indie Spirits was, I like stood up. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Yeah. It was, I mean, how the dissonance of like accepting an award for a that's canceled.
It was just kind of like, right. It all came up.
But I think that like that,

that not enoughness, I think when I reacted to that news, I obviously had feelings, but when I

was able to, yeah, the, the boomerang back, you know, just being able to come back to myself and

know that like I did what I was supposed to do and there's circumstances out of my control and sometimes things aren't fair yeah yeah but you take this and you and it extrapolates forward into like the rest of your career I can't wait for who the fuck did I marry thanks babe I'm so excited it's gonna be it's gonna be fucking I mean mean, that is, what a saga.

It was such a saga, and there's

so much more you don't even know.

Oh my God. Are you talking to

Teresa? Yeah. Okay.
That's the homie.

I love it.

And it's so lovely, and Marty Noxon,

who's incredible. The best.
Unreal.

Yeah. Unreal.
Let's talk about

Unreal. Can we, though? Yeah.

When I moved to LA, I went to, my very first LA thing I did. I went to an FYC panel for Unreal.
Who was there? Everybody. Yeah.
Everybody. Sherry Appleby.
That should have been an Emmy win. Like that was, that was amazing.
Constance Zimmer, obviously the whole cast. Constance is everything.
But she's with me. We're co-creating.
And so she's kind of like, and she's, yeah, her writing and everything is incredible. And she'll tell you she lived a similar story.
So like her, she's such a value add. But yeah, hopefully we'll be bringing that soon.
I love it. Wait, I've always been curious.
I've never gone to ask you about this. And now I'm like a new weeb, as they say, like a new otaku.
Like I went to Japan for the first time and i'm like this is this is my place but what was your what was your time in tokyo like it was so different because you were working it was like yeah a different time in your life in my i was 26 27 when i got there i was teaching english part-time i started performing at the tokyo comedy store which is like their version of boom chic. Where it's just like they had expats performing for a lot of like largely expat audience.
It was wild. It was black in Japan.
Barack wasn't in office yet. He got elected that year.
And I just remember like riding my bike around town and people shouting like, Obama! And I would just like, I just like wave. I'm like, yes! Like I was just like owning it.
Oh, wow. People would even pre his inauguration, like people would take pictures with me, pull my hair and just like, but I didn't mind it.
Okay. I didn't mind it because it came from a place of curiosity and it wasn't steeped in the fucking like trauma response that is living in america as a black person do you know what i mean so like it was just like little like people were just like oh my god but like how long did it take for you to like have that understanding of like oh this is this is just a curiosity quickly okay because it's such a homogenous country sure and the only kind of like racism that i peeped, it was like, if you were African American, they were cool with you.
But if you were from the continent, they were kind of like a little suspicious. And I didn't know that because one of the guys that I was working with at the school where I was teaching, he was African American, but he looked like he was from the continent.
And we were going to this like karaoke bar and they wouldn't let him in. And we were just kind of like, well, what's going on? He's like, I know this happens sometimes.
Let's go to another one. So that was wild.
But I loved it. Like the I had the best time.
I loved it. And I was obsessed with it.
And then towards the end, it dawned on me. I was like, the reason the toilets are so clean and all that shit is because the reason why everyone knows where they have to go and fall in line is because it's homogenous.
Yeah. And like, is that like a worthwhile thing to aspire to? You know what I mean? Here's what I'll say about that.
I don't think so. I don't aspire to homogeny, but I think when you are in an environment where you are othered, you see yourself more clearly.

I felt like I was wearing polka dots to a stripes party.

Everything that I was trying to run from, I saw more acutely.

And for me, being in an environment where I felt so seen and so watched, it was just like, okay, bitch, audit who you are and who you want to be and how you present yourself.

And I think that like, while it's not ideal, I do think moments of homogeny can remind you of who you are and require you to show up for yourself. And I think that when I was there, you know, I was so, you know, I had lived in DC, graduated from University of Maryland.
I knew I wanted to go to New York, but I was terrified. I was like, I want to live some life.
So I did this like little adventure and wherever you go there you are and I feel like that's also like white load especially when you're on vacation you're supposed to relax I feel like that's one of the greatest things about it it picks apart the idea that it's like okay I'm relaxing and now I'm alone with my brain and I'm alone with these people who are close to me that I've elected to spend time with and their brain. With no tech.
I did that once for a week. I did a Buddhist meditation retreat for four days, five days, four nights.
How did it go? Withdrawals? Oh yeah. This was like, no, no tech, no speaking.
Oh, I've heard of these. heard of the no speaking thing.
Yeah. Yeah, no.
And do you hear the thoughts more loudly or what? Like what's going on? I felt like I was at like a rock concert. Fuck.
Yeah. Because there was no way to, and here's what I did.
So like, again, rule follower, before we entered the silence, you could ask questions. And I was just like, books.
I brought books. And he's like, nope, because you're just like distracting yourself.
And and i was just like so no books no like i'm trying to go through all things like i know no gadgets but i was like what are the tactile sort of like analog things i could do to like again and he was just like journaling that's the one thing that was permitted my hand was throwing up gang signs i wrote so much i was like i was like cramping because I needed to have some place to put it. But I will say it was clarity.
Clarity times 10. It was amazing.
Eventually you got there. Eventually I got there.
Like kicking and screaming clarity. And then now I'm also just like glued to my phone again.
One of the most anxiety inducing scenes of all of White Lotus so far and obviously it was because it was the first scene and I was like waiting to see what was happening. But when they, when Zion was sitting in meditation, I was just like, it always just, it makes me anxious.
I know people always say like, you know what you need to go. Yeah.
Go home and meditate. I'm like, see you're driving me nuts.
And I also think that there's something to that in the whole show, this idea of what happens when you sit with yourself. Are you even able to entertain that idea? Yeah.
And I just think those themes are becoming even more clear as we get to the end. Like, who are you really? Who are you really? And it's, yeah, it's just reconciling who you want to be and who you are.
And I think that's a constant struggle. And I think the more you resist the truth of who you are and don't adjust your aspirations to be in line with who

you are, that's just where the tension lies. I think Mike does that so beautifully in the show

because you have all of these people hitting who they are head on.

Yeah. I mean, it's just really interesting because in now thinking about this thing of

the absence of tech and all that stuff, it's a place that's asking you to let go of all those things. And now we have, you know, the older Ratliff gentleman like panicus.
He can't communicate needing to do that to like get information. And it's driving crazy.
Parker has lost her drugs. You know what I mean? She's going to be without her things.
I think, honestly, Patrick Schwarzenegger, no one wants to fuck him in that entire place. And he's got this like thing in his head that that's where his power lies and his like, you know, vitality and sexual prowess.
And he's just getting all he can get that from is his goddamn brother. And it's just been a really interesting, specific test of all those things.
Yeah. I mean, and it's, I a really interesting specific test of all those things.

I mean, and it's, I think too,

like with each of them,

you see the ugly coming to the surface

and I feel like with Zion

played by the very symmetrical

Nicholas de Venet.

What a beautiful man.

It was a very like Oedipal complex moment.

Have you met your son?

I was like,

mom,

mom alike.

He was in the pool

in this last episode

and I turned to Greta

and I was like,

when he gets out of this water,

it's going to be on site.

It's going to be something else.

And lo and behold.

And to make it worse,

he's like such a good dude.

Sure.

I remember saying to him, we had dinner like the first week he got there and I was just like, you are too symmetrical to be this nice. And he was just like, what? I was like, no, it's like a lot of guys who look like you aren't this nice.
But no, I think like, you know, everyone's ugly. Trust me, I've seen the You've seen that.
You've done the tour. Yeah.
But yeah, I think like everyone's working on their shit. But I think like with Zion, you see it's bringing his good out.
Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like he's rising to the occasion.
So I do think that like things that test us, you know, they, yeah, they prove your mettle. I'm so scared about what's going to happen.
I know. I'm genuinely terrified.
And the thing is, like, it's like, it would be one thing if we knew this was a show where, like, they wouldn't kill Belinda, but that's not what this is. I mean, we saw Jennifer Coolidge fall right off that boat and hit her head.
I screamed. People think I knew.
I had no idea. About that? No.
So your insight into season two was nothing? Nothing. I was at home watching.
I'm like, I love this for her. And then like watching.
And yeah, when she fell off, I screamed. And then perfect ending for that character.
But so tough. And famously, she's she hates the water being on it and gets famously seasick.
They had a bedazzled bucket for her season one to puke into. So I remember saying to Mike, I was like, the cruelty of this moment.
And he was like, well, I had to write. You know, she had to do it.
And one of the most iconic scenes is the ashes in the water during the fantasy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They put her on the water both seasons.
Yeah. She's on vacation on the water for sure.
It's so funny. And Mike and her are like best, best, best friends.
And so it's so funny. I'm just like, oh, Mike, you're going to have to pay back.
Pay back. This is mean.
I hope Belinda kills Greg. This is what I'm hoping.
That's what I hope. I'm just comforted to like see you and be in the same space as you.
Because I'm just like. You know I'm alive.
Because I know you're alive. I'm here.
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Speaking of being here, we probably should move into I Don't Think So Honey, which is where we're all asked to be here and present in a 60-second takedown of culture that absolutely must occur. And I feel I need to speak to some response that happens to the White Lotus this season.
I just want to check people and truly, I think, make a point about—let's just put me on the clock. This is Matt Rogers.
I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. People saying that the White Lotus incest this season is too much.
Where were you during Game of Thrones? You had nothing to say when it was heterosexual incest. And then all of a sudden, now that it's homosexual incest, now that we see some making out and some jacking off, all of a sudden people are up in arms.
I'm sorry, there was incestual procreation on Game of Thrones. And you said nothing.
Maybe you thought it was a little silly. But you weren't like, it's too much for me.
Close friends of ours saying, that's disgusting. I don't want to see that.
I don't want to go there. This is White Lotus.
You didn't think it was going to go there? I don't think so, honey. You better love and enjoy.
Get your popcorn out when these two men kiss

because I am rooting for it.

I hope they go all the way.

I hope we see these brothers make it to the altar together.

I want the white lotus to white lotus all over the place.

Bam.

When I do that, I'm pretending to be two gay brothers

who are doing it all over each other.

Grow up. I don't think so, honey.
And that's one minute. That might be my best one in a long time.
I can't follow that. I didn't know I had that in me.
Matt Rogers, caper for gay incest on TV. I love it.
Grow up. Because all I'm saying is.
You're right. There was not this much noise during Game of Thrones.
No. Certainly nothing even approaching it.
Yeah. I think it's because you can't really project yourself onto one of the characters of Game of Thrones and be like, that could really happen to my children.
Do you know what you're watching? You're like, I might be dating a guy who did like... Sure.
Fuck his brother. Oh, fuck.
You know, or like there's all of these things. Yeah, I'm telling these well let me not but let me it's these families with a lot of money that things go back a very long time that is where the weird stuff happens and that it is no mistake that they are that kind of like family and they're engaging in this type of thing and what I'll also say is that the discomfort with it is, and this is very intentional, I think, on Mike White's part, and he's been like this from the beginning.
There is a fascination with the male butt, and it makes people think of gay sex and the ick factor therein. And I'm just saying that is the way we make love.
Get over it and grow up. It's theory of the abject.
You don't like it because poop is nearby. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's scatological. It really is.
It's scatological. And what I always think, is he doing a butt call for his male actors? Because it's always popping off.
A butt call. A butt call.
Adam DeMarco, we will not forget. I'm just saying, I see what that is.
Yeah. And therapy.
It's Shakespearean. Right? Right.
Like to me I feel like that's the cool thing about the motifs he's using this season. Like it feels very classical.
Classical. Yes.
I would agree. And also I really appreciate that in the second season too with the opera of it all.
Oh yeah. I thought that there's really, and you kind of, it blows my mind that he can make these shows.

Obviously,

there are White Lotus

and they come with those themes.

We, of course,

have this very similar setup

every season.

But this like,

real commitment to

and fascination with

the culture

surrounding the places

he decides to explore,

I think is even more impressive than people realize.

Oh, this season is incredible.

Yeah.

I've seen a lot of people who have a deep knowledge

of Thai music history, of like the rock and the disco

and all these different genres that have like moved through Thailand.

Like people being like, no, the way that they're using,

the music supervising on the show is excellent.

The way they're using Thai music is very, very, very like sophisticated.

Yeah.

I feel like Thailand for me feels like a character on the show this season.

Of course.

And I think it's a beautiful love letter to the culture of Thailand.

Yeah.

And I learned when I was there, I had no idea. They've never been colonized.
Oh, really? They've never been to war. Right.
And they call it the Land of Smiles. And so it's just the foundation of Thailand is this openness.
Yes. And it's pervasive.
And the Thai crew was like, everyai hand that touched this production was just like did it out of love and i've never been surrounded by that you know in the same way and yeah i think that like from music supervision to all of the performances obviously i mean of course and just like they tapped like thai royalty to be a part of the show I mean Lalisa of course I think she's so fabulous I just feel like I mean it's impressive yeah this is segwaying with that segway I'm gonna whip out the phone and say Bowen Yang clearly has an I don't think so honey today yours is about too much being said about something mine is about not enough and with that too much not much not enough narrative, this is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think Sohoney. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. There should be a huge din of conversation around Lalisa's performance in White Lotus Season 3.
I'm not seeing enough chatter discourse about the groundedness with which she is performing this character. All the seats between her and Gaituk are so sweet.
I'm nervous for that. Something bad is going to happen there, and I don't like it.
I don't like this feeling in me that I've been sitting with for weeks, but she is blowing me away. Obviously, Blackpink stan, Lelisa stan for life.
She was someone that, my starstruck moment at the Oscars was honestly walking past her as I was coming off presenting, and she about to walk on for performing and we waved at each other. And I was like, oh my God, Lelisa, that smile, that million dollar smile.
I love Lelisa so much. Why aren't the gays talking about this more? Why aren't there more? You know, I just want to see the memes.
I'm not seeing enough Lelisa memes. I'm seeing a of Parker we love Parker I'm seeing a lot of Patrick we love Patrick

I need to see

Belinda memes

I need to see LaLisa memes

and that's one minute

and that's one minute

you know what it is

it kind of goes hand in hand

with the thing of like

oh this season feels slow

feels slow

feels slow

no

I feel like this season

is the most cinematic yet

because what is going to happen

and I know with Lisa

I know there's a twist coming

I know that there's going to be

something that goes down

with her character

that like

makes it bigger than it is

and I feel like

Thank you. going to happen.
And I know with Lisa, I know there's a twist coming. I know that there's going to be something that goes down with her character that like makes it bigger than it is.
And I feel like because it has to be because it's her. It's just so exceptional.
I know. I love her so much.
I met her mother on set. She's so down to earth.
She's just real and so sweet and like just loves the craft of acting and like is so was so nervous but really and she is like she would she would be out and about like if we were like oh let's go grab dinner here whatever mobbed by people like in thailand like international superstar yes yeah like it was insane was insane like Beyonce level fandom over there and

she is so

gracious and like kind

and but the acting is

out of this world

well talk about someone who is used to

working her fucking ass

off I mean like

you know have you seen the documentary

like it's

my sister made me watch it before

I went to shoot I was like I need, like, you know, have you seen the documentary? Oh, yeah. Like, it's, it's, you have to.
My sister made me watch it before I went to shoot. I was like, I need to do some more research.
I can't just listen to the music. It's like, you need to watch the docs.
Yeah. We saw them at Coachella.
It was like four machines. Wow.
It was, it was wild. And I mean, like a person like that, I would say, like I say about Beyonce, don't put anything past someone that works that hard.
What is the Lisa sign? I don't know out. Probably a Virgo as well.
I mean, I would feel like she moves like a Virgo. You know what I mean? We need to find out.
What are you? Can you guess? Wait, because I would have said Leo, but now as a result of this conversation, I don't know. Are you a Scorpio? I'm Libra.
You're a Libra? Okay, so we had Cate Blanchett yesterday and she was saying people who are Libras aren't necessarily as out and proud about their Libraness. Are you out and proud about your Libraness? I love my Libraness.
A Libra is not something to not be proud of. No, no, I love it.
But we were just saying like people, Libras don't feel like they need to tell everyone they're a Libra. Like we're a Pisces and a Scorpio and we're so out and proud out here.
My dad's Pisces, Scorpio, bestie. No, 100%.

Water signs. Okay.
She's an Aries.

Oh!

I like that. There's a fire.

There's a fire. I love that.

I like that. In fact,

I was looking at it. Ram forward.

One of those swipe through

Instagram things today that's like, here's what

a cancer needs. And it made

a point about Pisces and Aries, so I might have to text Lalisa. I feel like you should.
I'll get her information. She'll love that.
She'll love it. Okay, is it time for your I Don't Think So, honey, or what? I'm so nervous.
Don't be. Do not be.
You're made for this moment. Okay, this is Natasha Rothwell's I Don't Think So, honey, and her time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. Stop asking me about White Lotus spoilers.
First of all, the emotional labor black women have had to carry this country. I do not want a nary another person asking me to drop the bag that I have secured in an effort to make you sleep at night.
It's not my job to make you sleep at night. You need to put yourself to bed.
Stop asking black women to heal you. Watch the fucking TV show.
Get your answers by watching the show like everybody else. Let me enjoy the fact that I'm on something that's exciting and I don't have to walk around being worried that I'm going to spoil something because you keep trying to sneak in questions.
And do you really think you in the middle of Target

that you, sir,

that I just met

and don't know

you're the one

that's going to make me

give up the ghost?

No!

Kind of go fuck yourself

and stop going

in the 15 items

or over line

you know you got 20 items.

You're a liar.

I'm not.

And I'm not telling you

fuck shit about the show.

Watch.

I don't think so, honey.

In this one minute. Amazing.
High energy. I don't think so honey is today.
Natasha. Yeah.
These are some high options. It's not going to be you man in Target.
It's not going to be you and it's not going to be the man in Target. No.
Man in Target. The bellboy.
The guy in the cat. Like people have been harassing me.
But it's like you want to tell them you don't want it. You don't want to find out this way.
No. Trust me.
You don't want to find out this way. Experience it through the viewing process, like the way it's meant to be.
I think also White Lotus is hearkening back to way, you know, it's water cooler television. It's once a week.
And it's just like appointment television. And folks are so gimme, gimme, gimme.
They can't wait. Do you know what I mean? And so for me, I'm just like, give in to what this show is.
You know, it's hearkening back to like fucking Dallas. They had hour long episodes, you know, like being able to tell a story over time.
I feel like the anxiety of the culture is just like making people antsy. Yes, you need more, more, more.
And it gets people mean about it too. Like I Like, I find that that's obviously trickled down to online blah, blah, blah, boring conversation about how Twitter sucks.
But what I'm saying is we should be so lucky to be in a time when we have an HBO prestige show that is water cooler on every Sunday night. We are always living in a better world when that is the case.
Yes! And it feels like we had a age there. And now we kind of like, you know, we're just, to put it mildly, we are eating right now.
And so enjoy your food. Enjoy.
Slowly bite. Chew.
Swallow. Take time to digest because more courses are coming.
And I'm not going to be the one. Like, I like work too hard.
No. I was like, if anybody's got loose lips, it's Parker.
That's just true. Yeah, I think she's already slipped.
She's already slipped. No, wait, did she? She said, I think it was on Fallon or something.
Someone came out and said, oops, I accidentally said something wrong. Maybe this is about something else.
It's not on the text chain yet. Maybe we'll cut this out.
But I mean, you've been sitting on this information for like a year at this point anyway, right? No. Longer.
Higher Bob. So, I got cast before the strike.
Oh. And I was sitting on it secretly while I was shooting How to Die Alone.
Then they announced it thinking we were going to shoot that October. And then the strike.
So, I was the only one announced and then no one else was announced. And for a whole year.
You knew. Well, yes.
Well, no, that was when was the strike? May? May. May through.
I didn't shoot again until I got to Thailand in February. Lord.
So I've been sitting on it for that plus. So two years.
Almost two years. Yeah.
You're not going to give up the ghost no not that easily Mr. Man and Target also we're not going to Target right now change the policies change your policies I will admit I did go in yesterday to buy the exclusive Gaga vinyl but I think people I think people on threads, at least, have given each other a pass.
The little monsters have been like, you can go to Target just to buy the vinyl. But I've been proud of myself.
My Amazon and Target shopping, way down. How's the Chick-fil-A consumption? Chick-fil-A consumption is virtually gone as well.
Okay, virtually gone! Virtually gone! Virtually gone as he picks chicken out of his teeth. Yeah, you smell like the flu.
I'm proud of myself. It's not easy for me.
My addiction to both Target and Amazon, like, obviously on the blackout day, I didn't. Sure.
It felt chic. It felt chic, but here's some shady shit.
I had filled up my cart to press the button. For 24 hours later, period, press it.
That's okay. You followed the blackout.
I followed the blackout. I was like, today I'm not going to press buy, but tomorrow morning I'm going to press buy.
You better believe at the stroke of 12, I was like, all right. You're like, I'm going to go.
No, but you should have seen me driving around LA with two miles of gas in my car. Oh, fuck.
I was like, I can't. I was like getting where I need to go like on empty because you couldn't get gas that day.
I was like, now this is the true test. This is the true test.
And you get somewhere on two miles. How much do you want to black out? I wanted it bad.
I'm proud of us. I'm proud of us.
We are changing the world. Yeah.

One economic blackout at a time.

That's right.

You certainly are.

God, what a long time coming.

What a long time coming.

We just so enjoyed having you here.

I want to do this again.

No, you have to come back.

But also, let's hang out without Mike's and I. I love that.

100% so we can really say.

And not at a bandwagon party.

No, not at a bandwagon party.

We will be the guys.

Okay, so, I mean, obviously, White Lotus, Sunday nights, we're, I guess, six episodes are out right now. We're coming up on that finale.
Obviously, watch everything Natasha does because it's the best ever. I mean, we just adore you.
I love you guys so much. Thank you so much for making time for us.
Truly. Thrilled for you.
So happy. No one, no one is more, like, up in this, like, I mean, you're like up on this pedestal, but the thing is you've been up on that pedestal for so long for us and you have never, ever, ever, ever disappointed us.
And that's not pressure or anything. It's just, it's just our love.
It's pressure. No, it's just that we love you so much.
Ditto. And just know that like I'm rooting for y'all so heavy.
Like you touch now or will touch i'm like just know that i'm in your corner and for me watching what each of you guys do and how you have come together to the like like it's just beautiful to see especially in the comedy community that kind of support and i think that like what you do i mean it it's smart, it's timely, it's needed. And I'm just like, I just want to keep putting a mic to you so that way your voices can continue to be amplified because the world needs you.
Oh my God. That is the kindest thing anyone's ever said.
Thank you so much. This is true.
I mean, this is so meaningful. And I feel we do end every episode with a song and people have been talking about how they haven't been hearing this enough.
But when this theme jumped out in the show, I was like, okay, I think this is Mike White telling us White Lotus is about to White Lotus. We all know the refrain.
Honey!

Come on, the remix!

Had to throw some grease in there.

Bye!

Lost Culture East is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts.

Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Executive produced by Anna Hosnier.

And produced by Becca Ramos.

Edited and mixed by Doug Bae and Monique Laborde. And our music is by Henry Kvorski.
This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires.
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