Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler

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Speaker 2 last podcast on the left listeners you might be wondering how in the living hell did they score this person to talk to them

Speaker 2 and the answer is is leverage folks

Speaker 2 it's called having personal information about important people inside of the hollywood industry machine that forced this to happen. Isn't that right, Eddie? That's correct.

Speaker 2 We have information and we're going to release it unless this is a good interview.

Speaker 2 This is really, honestly, kind of a come to Jesus moment for this man and for the industry as a whole because we don't know how all of this is going to kind of roll out.

Speaker 2 So welcome to Last Podcast on the Left. I'm Henry Zabrowski.
I'm sitting here with Ed Larson. Hello.
And we have an illustrious filmmaker.

Speaker 2 By far the coolest interview we've ever had. Hey, well, I will say we had Dan Ackeryd once.
Yes.

Speaker 2 But we have ryan kyle kugler do you have do you have a vodka that you need to push wait wait before yeah we should have covered that more are you selling vodka no i i i i i i don't i i wish i wish i did bro can i say that you're leaving money on the table

Speaker 4 yes i mean i mean i got i got i got nothing to push bro

Speaker 2 it's unfortunate i got nothing but a movie because this is podcasting and unfortunately you need a movie's whatever i need you to have an exercise machine that you're selling that also helps me from being infected by the government's choices

Speaker 2 bro i got nothing man i got a humble movie you know what i mean coming to theater april 18th buddy um and that's about it bro i wish those of you let me do this these guys don't know who everybody knows this is the man who made black panther this is the man that made creed that made me audibly weep in a theater i i cried masculine, big fat, masculine tears.

Speaker 2 You got Sylvester Stallone nominated for a second Oscar?

Speaker 4 I mean, I mean, I think he got himself nominated. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure.
We know how it is.

Speaker 2 We know how it is. You're nice.
We know. But the reason why you're here, those movies are too important and good for us to talk about.

Speaker 2 This is something that we're talking about that is extremely amazing. This film, Sinners, that you have made, it's coming out April 18th.

Speaker 2 You have come down to the horror world you're making an extremely big thick ass horror movie that are people gonna love and say thank you so much for talking to us people like sinners ruled i appreciate that you guys man yeah man that that that means the world i i i love the genre um you guys saying i'm coming down to it i feel like i was coming i'll be i was coming up to it you know what i'm saying like like um

Speaker 4 because because when i was in you know before i even went to film school my my first my first short films i would make would have

Speaker 4 horror elements to them.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 I didn't feel like I was good enough to make that step yet, man. And

Speaker 4 I kind of got away from it.

Speaker 2 What do you mean by like not, what do you mean by not good enough? We actually watched your movie Lox. It's beautiful film.

Speaker 4 I'm talking before Lox, bro.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 4 I was making stuff before that. You know, like, Lox, I think, was like my second year of graduate school, no, my second semester of graduate school.

Speaker 4 But I was making shorts when I was in undergrad, when I first learned, learned that I wanted to make movies.

Speaker 4 And I made a couple of things at SC,

Speaker 4 you know, that,

Speaker 4 you know, one of them, one of them actually was the thing that got me recommended for

Speaker 4 Fruitville. But

Speaker 4 nobody will ever see those movies.

Speaker 4 It wasn't legal for us to submit those movies to festivals or anything like that.

Speaker 2 And they weren't good enough.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 I've been in love with the genre, man, and wanting to make something

Speaker 4 in that zone since I learned I wanted to make movies.

Speaker 4 That was my first, my first instinct.

Speaker 4 But then

Speaker 4 I made Lox. Locks was the first thing I could submit to festivals based on the rules of the school and ended up making things more in that, you know, more in that tonality.

Speaker 4 But this was kind of a homecoming for me that folks who really know me, who are around,

Speaker 4 know

Speaker 4 I have

Speaker 4 this type of passion for horror cinema.

Speaker 2 Man, what are your favorite horror movies? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Not just what inspired sinners, but what inspires you in general, kind of?

Speaker 4 Yeah, man. My favorite horror movies, man.

Speaker 4 I would say number one is the thing.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Now, you consider that horror over sci-fi? Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I consider the thing, cosmic horror.

Speaker 4 You know, it definitely has science fiction elements as well.

Speaker 4 I must tell you, bro, even though I love genre cinema, I don't like the concept of genre.

Speaker 4 It annoys me. Like having that, having that, having to classify things, and especially like after

Speaker 4 making this movie, you know, because I can research and,

Speaker 4 you know, the movie deals with a lot of things, but, but.

Speaker 2 It's drama, action, horror, it's everything. But you're unlocking something.
It's like Hereditary was the first time I remember seeing as an adult seeing a movie.

Speaker 2 And I was like, horror is drama set on fire, right? 100%.

Speaker 4 Hereditary is a big one for me. I love that movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And so when I watched Sinners, the first thing I thought of

Speaker 2 was truly refreshing about it is because, yes, what you're saying, I see what you're saying. Yeah, it's a horror movie because of the elements that are within it.

Speaker 2 But all of the stuff feeds what the movie's about.

Speaker 4 Yes. Yes.
No, no, 100%. Like, like the thing is, is I always, I always work from the standpoint of, knowing what my worst fear is as an artist.
And I'm always kind of dealing with that in my movies.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And

Speaker 4 in this movie, I dealt with all of them. Like all of my worst fears are in this.
I just dumped them all in there. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 But what I was saying about genre was like, you know,

Speaker 4 in studying for this movie, I was studying Delta Blues music. And I discovered, like, I discovered that.

Speaker 4 For a long time,

Speaker 4 when the music business was like first commodified in this country, you know genre itself was a was a was a tool of racism you know yeah like if a black person sang a song and then a white person sang the same song you know they would put those two songs into two different genres you know what i'm saying like the black song would be called a race record and then and then the white person singing the song that might be called blue girl

Speaker 2 or like pop yeah yeah pop or like

Speaker 4 exactly and and you know the music industry it you know came before the film industry you know I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Like it had,

Speaker 4 it's an older industry. So

Speaker 4 a lot of the film business, it follows the whims of music because it's an older industry. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And that tradition is what causes like certain genres to be kind of like ghetto-eyed. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 Like this genre is beneath this genre. The horror movie is beneath

Speaker 4 the costume drama. You know what I'm saying? Like

Speaker 4 this thing. So

Speaker 4 whenever I hear it with this one and I'm trying to define it or when I'm trying to like classify a movie like Rosemary's Baby.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Yeah, what is, I was thinking about that. What exactly would you call it? Yes, it has horror elements, but it's like it's mostly a drama.

Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 you realize it becomes, you know, like they had this ridiculous rule that the movie and Terry Geys called the one drop rule. Like

Speaker 4 for human beings, right?

Speaker 4 And in this country at a time when they were trying to put the, you know, when they trying to, when they're trying to stick apartheid on top of humanity, they said, all right, if you got one drop of black blood, now that makes you black.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Which is so absurd when you hear this. But it's also, you know, you think about that with movies.
It's like, hey,

Speaker 4 you got a couple of horror scenes. Now that's a horror film.

Speaker 4 And it's like, well, it's Rosemary's baby. Like, like, how are we going to talk about this movie? Because

Speaker 4 the vast majority of it, you know, is a

Speaker 4 husband and wife talking to their neighbors. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 you know you know and and and and so so so so for me you know um my favorite horror movies that they all are gonna have uh uh uh an element of like a question mark like yo is that a horror movie because look i'll tell you straight up like i think steven spielberg has created some of the most horrific images known to man like like you know uh uh with jaws raiders of the lost arc whatever

Speaker 4 that ending bro like what happens to the dude when he pops the thing but but also man a movie like jurassin Jurassic Park,

Speaker 4 like some of those Velociraptor sequences,

Speaker 4 the opening of the Velociraptor sequence, when a guy gets eaten

Speaker 4 by something in a box that you can't see,

Speaker 4 or the T-Rex sequence when it's raining at night and the cup is rippling and

Speaker 4 fucking eyes

Speaker 4 coming by the car and it's breathing on the glass.

Speaker 4 The Velociraptor opening the door. Yeah.
And the claws

Speaker 4 on the kitchen tile. You know what I'm I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Like, like, like, you know, that movie is so scary, it literally scares dogs. Like, there's so much footage of it, like, scaring dogs.
So, like, that's how scary dogs know it's scary, yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah, dog's not fucking with it. Yeah, they like, man, get that thing off, yeah,

Speaker 2 dude. You know, it kind of even you just saying that, it really kind of blows something up for the center of the movie for me.
Like, you know, we're trying to avoid all spoilers as we go, but

Speaker 2 I do think that

Speaker 2 like it starts off like you have an idea of what these things you're dealing with are in the movie.

Speaker 2 Like she calls them like haints, I believe is a term. Like she calls them haints.
And then you like clarify that they're vampires, which is kind of like almost the same thing.

Speaker 2 It's like it's you're clarifying the genre of the what we're dealing with here. Yeah, absolutely, man.

Speaker 4 Like

Speaker 4 it's so much fun, bro. Like, look, a big,

Speaker 4 a big

Speaker 4 inspiration for the movie was also the Twilight Zone.

Speaker 4 You you know like um you know that that that's my you know the twilight zone is like my it's like my filmmaking bible if i have one you know it does a monsters on maple street kind of thing yeah yeah yeah exactly exactly my favorite episode of twilight zone is not as it's not as like talked about but it's a it's an episode called um the last rites of jeff myrtlebank okay and it's about a guy like in a in a in a in a southern midwestern town depression era who wakes up at his own funeral

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 4 and it's about the fallout

Speaker 4 of the town, like trying to figure out what's going on with this guy, you know, and it's and it's just beautiful film acting, bro. It's funny,

Speaker 4 it's scary, it's smart, you know, you know what I mean. And like,

Speaker 4 like, like for me,

Speaker 4 you know, you know, you know, that shit, and it has like a few, you know, a few scenes that could maybe delve into horror, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 But most of it is just like slice of life in this town, you know what I'm saying. saying? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Have you ever seen Handling the Undead?

Speaker 4 No, what is that?

Speaker 2 It's a new film that came out. It's 2024.
And it's kind of like that, where it's a highly emotional zombie film, where it's a very understated movie where everybody's coming. And it's the same thing.

Speaker 2 People just show back up. And they're all like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, I'm happy to see you.
But what the fuck are you doing here? Like, it's that. I love that, bro.

Speaker 2 But I love it because then it's like the idea of like, they don't have a working knowledge of what zombies are.

Speaker 2 And I also like how this main character, which also, I don't know if it like the research is awesome. Yeah.
That you put into this.

Speaker 2 Because we're watching the characters learn with us, which is always fun. Like, when you will go into the esoteric teachings and all that kind of stuff, like, how far did you go? Like, how, have you

Speaker 2 experienced any of this stuff? Have you went to like, you know, like when you were researching about like hoodoo and folk magic? Yeah. Like, do you know, do you have any personal connections to that?

Speaker 2 Do you know anybody who does that shit?

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 my wife, who's my producer on this, when she found a consultant

Speaker 4 for us,

Speaker 4 you know, because

Speaker 4 I'm big on consultants, bro. I work with a lot of consultants.
When I make movies, out of fear of just not wanting people

Speaker 4 who are knowledgeable about the subject matter you're making to sit in the theater and see us get it wrong on a giant screen. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 It takes a smart man to ask questions.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 4 So she found us an incredible consultant.

Speaker 4 Her name is Dr. Her name is Dr.
Yvonne. What's her last name, Zen?

Speaker 4 Oh, Sev. Oh, my bad.
Seventh found that, Sev found that consultant. Our other producer,

Speaker 4 my wife, Zinzi, is here.

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Hi, Ryan's wife.

Speaker 2 Nice to meet you. Mr.
Koogler. Hi,

Speaker 2 Ryan's wife.

Speaker 2 Sorry.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 4 Zenzi Kugler

Speaker 4 is my boss's name.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 the doctor's name was Dr. Yvonne Shiraux.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 4 And she

Speaker 4 read the script, gave feedback and helped us to make sure that the ritual

Speaker 4 where Annie, who's our conjure woman in the movie, where she feeds Smokes Mojo bag. you know, which is which is a good luck charm

Speaker 4 that's very, very famous and very talked about in blues culture. You know, sometimes it's a Mojo hand.

Speaker 4 You know, sometimes it's called a Johnny Conquer.

Speaker 4 You know, but

Speaker 4 you'll hear this referred to in

Speaker 4 extremely famous blues songs. You know,

Speaker 4 but

Speaker 4 all of that stuff, I wanted it to be real, man. Like, and,

Speaker 4 you know, I love,

Speaker 4 you know, I mean, it's look, it's a lot of filmmakers carrying the torch for that, right? Like... like Robert Eggers.

Speaker 2 Yeah, who's your buddy, too?

Speaker 2 A little birdie told us you're friends with him. And you guys are both friends.

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, yeah. yeah robert and i have the same agent um who who's like who's like a who's like a uh

Speaker 4 who's an incredible person bro like craig castell who who who are our who our contact is with right like like uh like walter and craig yeah oh yeah um you know are are are are are have been in each other's lives for for the better part of a decade and and craig loves cinema man and he loves his job bro he really does you know so so so i've been hearing about robert forever and um and you know we we finally got a chance to exchange exchange info and and but but but but you know I love the feeling of uh uh a fully realized intactile world where you can feel that the filmmakers cared you know um you know it's a it's a deep uh uh

Speaker 4 um um history of that and and you know uh we wanted the magic in this movie um to feel like everything else, like the music, like like like the like the uh like like the like the dance in the movie.

Speaker 4 Like we wanted it to feel

Speaker 4 real and lived in and respected.

Speaker 2 You know, yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 I saw a statement that you made about how you want people to feel like they're in a place and that when you, when you are trying to make art, that you're trying to bring someone to a place.

Speaker 2 How do you do that?

Speaker 2 I mean, I mean,

Speaker 2 please, if you could just have

Speaker 4 one do that, yeah, it's funny, man, because, like, um, because for a long time, film was how I traveled, you know, like like watching,

Speaker 4 I still to this day haven't been to Brazil, but I've seen City of God, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 So I feel like I've I feel like I've been mentally ill. I didn't get to New York until I was like 20, 22 years old and one of my films got into the Tribeca Film Festival.

Speaker 4 But I felt like I had been to New York all the time watching like movies like Coming to America and Marty Scorsese movies. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 So for me,

Speaker 4 a big part of it,

Speaker 4 now that I had this incredible blessing to be able to make movies, I think about that. I say, well, this is how a vast majority of my audience is going to experience Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 I don't want to fuck this up.

Speaker 4 Like,

Speaker 4 I don't want somebody who is from Philadelphia to pay a ticket to see what they think is a Rocky movie and only to realize that, man, we got Philadelphia completely wrong. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 They care too. Oh, yeah.
And they let you know. They let you know in an audible way.
They're going to say a bunch of horrible words at you if you don't.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? So look, bro, like, like, I'm like 27, 28 years old. And, and, and, because Fruitville is my first movie, and I was about my hometown.
Like, I knew, I knew what the Bay Area was.

Speaker 4 I knew the back of my hand, right? So, I didn't, it wasn't a concern. But, but, but, but, for, for, for, for uh, Creed, I freaked out, bro.

Speaker 4 Like, like, like, because I realized, like, oh my God, this is this responsibility is on my shoulders.

Speaker 4 So, the first thing, one of the first things I did was I, I, I took my locations manager and my, and my teamster, my head of the teamsters, i took them to the side you know blocked out three hours um i got a map of the

Speaker 4 of greater philadelphia like a big proper map like the sides fill up your ground and i spent two and a half hours with them and just like like what's this neighborhood called why is it called that who is who is here you know what i'm saying where do i go if i want to if i want a cheese steak where do i go if i want to learn how to box you know you know like you know we went through it for two and a half hours marked up the whole calendar you know you know what i'm saying yeah and and then and then i i remember our um our head of travel she was a black philadelphian you know what i'm you know what i'm saying so i brought her i brought her in and was like hey man tell me about philly you know what i mean like you know where are you from who's from over here what's going on over there you know i got this scene with bikes where do i go to do that you know you know like like

Speaker 4 and you know so so so from there i had like i feel like i feel like i had a base understanding i took a picture of that map And I had it on my phone. And I went to Scotland and went to these places.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying? And for me, it was the same thing for Clarksdale, Mississippi.

Speaker 4 Louvig and my composer-in-law, we went on the Blues Trail and we spent days in these places.

Speaker 4 We ended up shooting

Speaker 4 in New Orleans, which is, you know, which is very, very close.

Speaker 4 But all of the defining characteristics of the Delta, you know, we make sure we were steeped in it, especially my production designer, Hannah Beekler, you know, so that we knew

Speaker 4 how not to,

Speaker 4 you know, what not to shoot in Louisiana, you you know what I'm saying in order to not not give ourselves up

Speaker 4 or be an effect supervisors to make sure we can maintain the the

Speaker 4 the the the structural integrity of the landscape you know you know what I mean and you know so all of those things all of those things matter man you know what I'm saying because like you don't you don't get you don't get this music and this culture and these types of people without without the place you know what I'm saying like the place the place

Speaker 4 is uh uh in constant call and response with the people that are there you know what I'm saying yeah

Speaker 2 You literally just gave an education to a lot of people that would not know how to do that. There's actually quite a few.
You have very good ideas.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 obviously, there's some Robert Johnson influence here in this movie. Yeah, big time.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you do your research and all that. And I got to ask a very last podcast question.

Speaker 2 How connected was Robert Johnson to the devil?

Speaker 4 Man, you know, it's funny, bro. Like, there's a book that talks about this in depth called Deep Blues by Robert Palmer.

Speaker 4 And it's a lot of books on Robert Johnson. But what I found, what I found out that was so fascinating was that he was not the first person to say this.

Speaker 4 Like there was a guitarist before him named Tommy Johnson, who was actually the guy who said, hey, I saw my soul to the devil. He taught me how to play the guitar.

Speaker 4 He would go around with a rabbit's foot. You know what I mean? And he would play.
And he made some incredible songs.

Speaker 4 Robert Johnson kind of stole his story.

Speaker 4 And when he did that, people knew he was he was kind of like kind of like saying he was the next tiny johnson you know what i'm you know what i'm saying um

Speaker 4 and it was it was a lot of uh uh

Speaker 4 uh a lot written about the fact that that story is is not what you think it is like like you know it it is like like like it's an anglicized version of the story that he saw to saw to the devil yeah it was really a deity named papa legba who who is who is um a west african deity from from the Yoruba tradition that was brought over by

Speaker 4 enslaved Africans,

Speaker 4 who's a different, like, like, he's not Satan.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 He's not involved in Christianity.

Speaker 4 No, exactly. He's not a follower to Christianity.
It's a different deity

Speaker 4 who's associated

Speaker 4 with trickery

Speaker 4 and gifts.

Speaker 4 But it really is

Speaker 4 how I looked at it. you know,

Speaker 4 is a metaphor for the Faustian deal.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying? Like I could

Speaker 4 and that and that for me, when looking at it was like, okay, well, this is this is

Speaker 4 maybe something that lends itself towards the specificity of vampires when it comes to like the supernatural horror rogues gallery.

Speaker 2 You know, yes. So that's how you got to vampires.
You're like, all right, this, so you basically, you were like, this is what's closest. Yes, sir.
That's a great idea.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And the idea of a deal, you know what I'm, you know what I'm saying, to get out of a situation, like mortgaging, you you know, mortgaging something for something else, you know, like it's something that I think,

Speaker 4 you know, oppressed people of all, of all cultural backgrounds are very familiar with. You know what I'm saying? Like this idea, look,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 4 my inspiration for this movie was my relationship with my uncle James, who was, who's from Mississippi. He was the oldest male member of my family.
And I was very close with him, man.

Speaker 4 I got like, you know, I loved him very much. And a part of my uh uh

Speaker 4 something that i had to give up in pursuit of being a professional filmmaker to be able to have this movie to talk to y'all about i had to leave my family a lot i had to i had to miss a lot of

Speaker 4 birthdays and and and weddings and um just just general get-togethers you know what i'm saying because i was on film score i was off shooting a movie the year i made creed you know was the year he was he was terminally ill You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 He got sick and died. And I maybe saw him once or twice that year.

Speaker 4 and like and when i when i got the call that he had passed away i was in a post-production facility in los angeles i was at a place called wildfire post and i and i felt like

Speaker 4 that i wasn't at my uncle's side you know what i'm you know what i mean because i was in pursuit because i was pursuing this dream you know what i'm saying he knows you love him no 100 bro but but the thing is is like the thing is is like

Speaker 4 the the question of what what you give up to get something you know what i'm saying like like that that like that was always what i saw that the tommy johnson the robert Johnson fable.

Speaker 4 That's what that was about.

Speaker 4 I'm going to make you a great guitar player, but

Speaker 4 in exchange for

Speaker 4 your soul.

Speaker 2 Is there anything that you would sell your soul to do? He's already doing it. No, but you mean besides great? Something super.

Speaker 4 I mean, like, it would have to be something like for my kids or something, like, to guarantee. That's a waste.
You know, like, to guarantee.

Speaker 2 It's a waste. It's on them.
It's on them. They can sell their souls.
To guarantee,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 4 like all my, all my, all my descendants, you know what I'm saying, go to, you know, you know, live wonderful lives and go to and go to heaven. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 I might consider putting that on the line. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 But that's actually a wonderful answer. Mine's turn invisible.

Speaker 2 That's really it.

Speaker 2 That's really all I need. That's all you need, bro.

Speaker 4 You a cheap date.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 2 That's it. That's all I want to do.
I got to ask a question. We go go back to Robert Edgars for a second.
Yeah. Y'all know each other.
You got the same agent. Both of you make

Speaker 2 vampire movies within a year. And he's like, what the fuck, bro? You like,

Speaker 2 24 years ago. That's my vampire year, dude.

Speaker 4 I mean, what's crazy about him, bro, is he been trying to make that movie favorite. Yeah.

Speaker 4 He's been trying to make that movie since he was a kid.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying? So, like, yeah, me beat to the punch by a long shot. You know, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 I hope you're not upset with me.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 No, no no they're completely different they're utterly different could be more unless they except for the both period pieces but they could be more they couldn't be more different can you imagine how big of a prick you have to be to be like i see one vampire film a year

Speaker 2 i will not see a second film without being a vampire

Speaker 4 i'm sure they exist you know what i'm saying but but um

Speaker 2 i'm hoping i'm hoping people people got it in them to to to check out another one you know what i'm saying oh they will oh yeah dude it's the because it's also it's bigger than it's bigger than horror it's got it it's got so much to it it's so thick it's got so much rich so much history in it it's awesome to bring a budget like this to a horror film is like just like thank you for like giving it recognition this is a great year for horror man right between nosferatu and the substance and you like this is great yeah screamboat is there so oh yeah have you even seen screamboat okay

Speaker 2 no dude surprisingly good it's fine We saw it. It's about, it's the new, it's when Steamboat Willie went copyright free.
A guy made like a movie just immediately about a killer version.

Speaker 2 It's the guy from Terror Fire who is doing this. Have you seen Terror Fire? Yeah, it's pretty silly.

Speaker 2 It's silly. It's very silly.

Speaker 2 Is there another horror thing that you in your head that you want to hit at some point? Like, is there something that you want to do?

Speaker 2 Like, is there like a remake or is there something that you're like jonesing for?

Speaker 4 Man, so many things, bro. Yeah,

Speaker 4 so many things. Like, I can't, you know, I can't say on the pod because I wouldn't be able to get a deal done.

Speaker 2 Come on, quick.

Speaker 2 This is how we do it. This is how we push it in the trade.
Yeah, I know, man.

Speaker 2 Bro,

Speaker 4 I love it, man. Like,

Speaker 4 it's not,

Speaker 4 it's not.

Speaker 4 Yeah, bro. Like, like, like, like, when you were saying, like, what's my favorite horror from? I'm like, I'm like, bro,

Speaker 4 it's so many

Speaker 4 that I just absolutely adore, bro.

Speaker 2 Also, do you love the question when you're selling the show and the movie that you've been working on for four years? And then the first thing I ask is, so what's next?

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 the movie hasn't even come out yet.

Speaker 4 I'm used to it, bro.

Speaker 4 I'm working on X-Files, bro.

Speaker 2 Seriously? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 You're a great choice. That's awesome.

Speaker 4 That's what's immediately next.

Speaker 2 That's cool.

Speaker 4 You know, so I've been excited about that

Speaker 4 for a long time and I'm fired up

Speaker 4 to get back to it.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 some of those episodes, if we do our jobs right, we'll be really fucking scary.

Speaker 2 And you're talking to Jillian Anderson?

Speaker 2 Can you tell her I said hello?

Speaker 2 I waved at her one time.

Speaker 4 I've spoken to the great Jillian Anderson. Yes, she's amazing.

Speaker 2 I waved at her one time. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 She's incredible.

Speaker 4 you know, fingers crossed there.

Speaker 4 I can't wait to see her see her in Tron. I just seen a trailer for that.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 She's in Tron.

Speaker 4 Yeah, when I spoke to her,

Speaker 4 she was finishing that up.

Speaker 4 But yeah, bro, we're going to try to make something really great, bro.

Speaker 4 And really be

Speaker 4 something for the real X-Fox fans. And they, you know what I'm saying? And maybe find some new ones.

Speaker 2 Tell you what, we're cruel and we're cutthroats. So just so you know, just remember that the rest of us, we're actually unsatisfied.
We're angry and we don't have jobs. So we're going to

Speaker 2 going to attack you.

Speaker 4 I'm going to know how y'all feel. And I understand.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, obviously, we're excited about the horror movie and totally X-Files.

Speaker 2 You know, we love our aliens over here. But I got to say, all of your movies, including Creed,

Speaker 2 are very like...

Speaker 2 Music is such a key part of it. It's very, it's obviously very important to you.

Speaker 2 And I love, you know, and I love everything you did with music and sinners. It was really, especially the one scene.
Yes, it's one of the coolest scenes I've ever seen. The audience applauded.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Oh, man. The audience was applauded at the end of that scene.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was, yeah, it was straight up like coolest music video I've ever seen. It was very, it was very interesting.
And then, but you do something

Speaker 2 that I miss from movies. And for especially with Black Panther and Wakanda Forever, is the specialized companion album.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that was something that was like, we saw a lot in the 90s, you know, and stuff like that. And I don't, I was recently complaining that it doesn't happen more often.
And Sinners needs an album.

Speaker 4 It's coming, bro. Yeah,

Speaker 4 it's really good.

Speaker 2 Like, hell yeah.

Speaker 4 It's really, really, really, really good. It's, you know, I think, I think this,

Speaker 4 I'm biased, obviously, but I think this score is some of Lulig's best work. And this soundtrack is some of his best work as well in that space.

Speaker 2 Like, it's incredible, bro. I can't wait for you.
I was saying that as we were watching it.

Speaker 2 I was like, this feels like, because you know what you're doing too, dude, that is amazing is that it's what you and Robert Edgar are doing, and I mean this, and it's not just because I'm a little

Speaker 2 Hollywood little man, but you guys are doing great stuff for movies because you're making them big and you're making them events.

Speaker 2 You're making them people, you're getting, you're putting butts in theaters again, which is going to turn our town back around. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Because I saw somebody begging for lentils outside of Erewhon the other day, and I was so scared for that that woman.

Speaker 2 There was a woman, and I swear, she could have been 20, she could have been 85, but she was on her knees begging for the new, I think they're called Ruby Lentils. Said Erewhon,

Speaker 2 this town needs you.

Speaker 2 And you know,

Speaker 4 I didn't know where that was going, bro.

Speaker 2 No, it's just scary out here.

Speaker 2 Okay, Andre 3000, good flute player or not? Fantastic, bro.

Speaker 4 I saw him in person.

Speaker 2 We saw him twice. We've seen it twice.
We've seen it twice. We love that album.
No, no, check game.

Speaker 4 He performed in this venue called The Cave up north in Napa, bro. And I was like, I was like, the whole time he was playing, bro, I was like, yo, somebody got to put a movie theater in the cave.

Speaker 4 This shit is sick.

Speaker 4 It was like

Speaker 4 stone walls and shit.

Speaker 4 And I was literally going to ask, who got a projector?

Speaker 2 Because I'm about to throw some shit up.

Speaker 4 But yeah, man, he makes you feel like you're floating, doesn't he?

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. We saw him at the Hollywood Forever.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we saw it at the Masonic live.
It was unbelievable. I thought I was going to float.
Yeah. Can I ask y'all a question? The least coolest people in the room, for sure.

Speaker 4 Can I ask y'all a question, bro? Yeah. And I only try to answer with Austin Sherry.
You know, don't give me the fake podcast answer. Give me the real answer, bro.
Okay.

Speaker 4 Would y'all watch Sinners at the Cemetery, bro? Hollywood Forever.

Speaker 2 Yep. I mean, of course.
That's where it belongs. Please.
Get it done.

Speaker 2 Get it done. Yeah.
Make it happen. Make it happen.
We had, I mean, I won't say, and we're a horseshoe podcast, and we had 4,000 people at the cemetery. You're going to fucking, that will be an event.

Speaker 2 It'll be an event. Okay, bet.
Have somebody play in blues, man. Have somebody there playing blues.
Like, people will freak out. It would be amazing.

Speaker 4 I bet.

Speaker 4 We're going to get to work on that

Speaker 4 after hopefully a robust.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Also, I need a George Clinton biopic, by the way. No one's done it.

Speaker 2 It just needs to happen at some point. If you, at least produce it, you know, like

Speaker 4 yeah, that's not, that's not, that's not a bad idea at all, bro.

Speaker 2 He's still that, he's still alive. He's kicking, he's amazing.

Speaker 4 Jay's even listening to a lot of George Clinton, bro.

Speaker 2 I could tell. Well, obviously referenced.

Speaker 4 I was today years old when I realized on Atomic Dog, the whole beat, he's panting like a dog.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. He's hilarious, man.
He literally just makes fart noises into instruments.

Speaker 2 That is Bootsy, right? Bootsy's in the movie. Bootsy's in the movie.
I mean,

Speaker 2 guess what? That's a yes. That's a yes.
Thank you. That's a yes.

Speaker 2 I'm not answering that.

Speaker 2 I'm not answering that. Sorry, it's fun.

Speaker 2 So you might want to check out some of the little films this man has made, like Fruit Vale Station, Wakanda Forever, Black Panther. You might want to.

Speaker 2 But if not, check out his newest incredible. Like, honestly, you're going to fucking love it.
Sinners. it comes out April 18th everywhere.
Go see it in IMAX. Go see it big.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And thank you for the ending, by the way. I've been waiting to see that in the cinema forever.
And you did it. And I appreciate it.
Thank you. Right on.
Right on.

Speaker 2 It definitely had like the right amount of the Tarantino kind of thing. And it was like, yeah.

Speaker 2 It has been such a pleasure and an honor talking to you, man.

Speaker 4 And likewise, thank y'all for having me, man. Best of luck with everything, man.

Speaker 2 I really appreciate y'all.

Speaker 2 I'd offer you luck, but you don't need it, my man. Keep up everything.
Can you do what you're doing? Can you offer us luck? He just did. No, good, good, good.
He just did. That's it.
I'm about it.

Speaker 2 That's it. We're good.
Dude, thank you. Mr.
Koogler, please. Thank you very much.
Goodbye, Ryan's wife. Bye.

Speaker 2 Mrs. Koogler.

Speaker 2 All right, y'all. See you guys.
Thank you, man. Be good.

Speaker 5 Life from your blade.

Speaker 2 Well, that was fucking cool.

Speaker 2 What a boring guy.

Speaker 2 And what a simpleton filmmaker. And I cannot believe that he would do that.
Wow, that's amazing. That is really cool.
He's great. Literally, the advice.
I feel like he smelled good through Zoom.

Speaker 2 He does. The advice that he put into, like, that idea of what you do to make a movie a location is actually solid.
Crazy advice. Yes.

Speaker 2 He's amazing. He's great.
Wow. Well, thank you guys so much.
April 18th, go see Sinners. Oh, I forgot to to ask him where to eat in Oakland.
Fuck it.

Speaker 2 All right, text them. Let's get him back.
Call him back.

Speaker 2 Call him back. Go check out all of our stuff on Patreon.
That's where their money is spent, isn't it? Patreon.com slash last podcast on the left.

Speaker 2 And go to LP on the left for all of our various socials. I don't know why.
Go to crimewave at c.com slash last

Speaker 2 buy ticket to see you, Santa Cruz. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 You want that. You want that.
His

Speaker 2 prestigious interview. He just burped during the play.
I know it. This is the end.

Speaker 2 I didn't do it while we were talking to him. Well, also, if you're not going to go see sinners on April 18th, come to our show in Detroit.
It's going to be a lot of fun. See it in the morning.

Speaker 2 See our show at night. And come yell at us about it after the show.
That would be great. All right, guys.
Be good to yourselves. And hail Ryan Kugler.
Hail Satan.

Speaker 2 Hi, neighbor.

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