Donald Trump, Time Bandit

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Hello, Los Angeles.

Welcome to Love It or Leave It.

Tonight on the show, Vice President Kamala Harris is here and she has a friend. Damon Lindelof isn't here, but twist, he is.
Then at the end, we cool off with some hot takes. But first, let's get into it.
What a week. In dueling speeches this week, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump laid out their economic plans.
Vice President Kamala Harris laid out her program in Pennsylvania on Wednesday, including a tax credit for first-time homebuyers, tax cuts for families, and a plan to launch 25 million small businesses. Meanwhile, Donald Trump held up a picture of what appeared to be a giant mousetrap baited with a stuffed cat under a giant sign that read, Free Immigrant Dinner Yum Yum.
That's a terrible plan. Harris emphasized that Trump's loyalties lie with billionaires, not workers.

You see, for Donald Trump, our economy works best if it works for those who own the big skyscrapers.

Not those who actually build them.

Not those who wire them.

Not those who mop the floors.

But what about those sitting in the big skyscrapers eating sweet green salads at their desk and agonizing over how many exclamation points to use in an email? Who will speak for them?

Meanwhile, over in Georgia, Trump offered this riposte.

It's this. It's not muscle.
It's all right there. That's a muscle, too, they say.
They don't say that. The brain is not a muscle.
The heart's a muscle, my dude. Also, a metaphor for compassion and zeal.
Sometimes we use strengthening a muscle as an analogy for how we can improve our memory, for example. Anyway, the race is tied, which makes me want to blow my brain muscle out.
Also, whenever Trump says they say or they tell me, it's fun to imagine he's not making up some unspoken chorus of voices, but it's in fact relaying the conversations he has had with his non-binary, insanely supportive best friend. Now that I've said it, you'll hear it that way forever they tell me i'm number one what a friend here is trump again threatening to go stand around a mcdonald's because kamala once worked at a mcdonald's i'm going to a mcdonald's over the next two weeks and i'm gonna stand over to french fries because i want to see what her job really wasn't like.
He almost landed that. He almost landed that.
That was. All right.
Well, let's find this person. For those listening at home, we're getting hit with this silver alert.
Is anyone here? In trouble? Or does anyone not know where they are? I mean, I guess it's important we find the person, but also important, show business. During an interview with MSNBC's Stephanie Ruhle, in which she talked about her economic agenda, Harris confirmed that, yes, despite what Donald Trump may say, she did work at McDonald's.
Part of the reason I even talk about having worked at McDonald's is because there are people who work at McDonald's in our country who are trying to raise a family. I worked there as a student.
I was a kid. I do hope we keep having this debate.
When did Conal Harris work at McDonald's? God damn it, with the silver alert. It's unbelievable.
Let's see. Let's see what it is.

I mean, it's a serious thing.

They found her.

They did?

Oh, so.

The alert is to let us know

to stop looking?

Hey, everybody.

Good news.

They found her.

Dead.

No, I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. I don't just...
All right. I do...
I do hope we keep having this debate. When did Kamala Harris work at McDonald's? How much more relatable is she than Donald Trump? I mean, look at Kamala Harris talking about caregiving.
I remember being there for my mother when she was diagnosed with cancer, cooking meals for her, taking her to her appointments, just trying to make her comfortable, figuring out which clothes were soft enough that they wouldn't irritate her, and telling her stories to try and make her laugh. Trump responded, Why would you worry about the feelings of someone who's about to die? They'll be dead, so how you made them feel right before they died doesn't matter.
You just make sure they sign whatever you need them to sign and remind the caddies where to dig. But this sideshow about McDonald's was just one of many ways in which Trump grabbed headlines this week.
Here he is launching a line of watches. I think you're going to love it.
My new Trump watches. We're doing quite a number with watches.
It's a terbion watch with almost 200 grams of gold and more than 100 real diamonds. That's a lot of diamonds.
I love gold. I love diamonds.
We all do. Only 147 of these extraordinary watches will ever exist in the world.
And owning one puts you in a very exclusive club. Get your Trump watch right now.
Go to GetTrumpWatches.com. It's Trump time.
With just weeks to go, Trump is announcing the sale of made-to-order watches, each costing $100,000. Yes, they're $100,000.
The perfect gift for the Supreme Court justice who has everything. You check your Trump watch.
Oh no, I'm late for the board meeting where we decide which bird should go extinct next. I will say it's hard to knock.
It's Trump time though. That's a home run, unfortunately.
Also, it's like, but there were many more moments this week where Trump's inanity and

rantings grabbed the headlines. Here's what he said about Russia.

As somebody told me the other day, they beat Hitler. They beat Napoleon.
That's what they do.

He said Ukraine no longer exists. Ukraine is gone.
It's not Ukraine anymore. He expounded on a conspiracy theory about immigrants.
They're actually going in with massive machine gun type equipment. They're going in with guns that are beyond even military scope.
And they're taking over apartment buildings, they're taking over. And then there was this.
Nancy Pelosi should be prosecuted for that. And she should also be prosecuted for J6.
Trump also invented a new and weird way to creep out women at a rally in Indiana. Because I am your protector.
I want to be your protector.

You will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared.

You will no longer be in danger.

You're not going to be in danger.

You will no longer be thinking about abortion.

Hey, this guy bothering you, says this guy bothering you.

Won't be lonely or scared or thinking about abortion.

That's not what Donald Trump offers women.

That's what a strong cold martini in the bathtub offers women.

He also encouraged women to please show him the baby.

We want beautiful babies in our country.

We want you to have your beautiful, beautiful, perfect baby.

We want those babies and we need them.

Hey, question. Have you ever seen Trump and Rumpelstiltskin in the same place at the same time? But back to Georgia and Trump's ideas.
That speech in Savannah actually was an attempt to lay out his economic agenda. It was supposed to be serious.
And in between his ramblings, it actually kind of was. Trump proposed fewer environmental regulations

and special manufacturing zones on federal land

with ultra low taxes and regulations for American producers.

And for American tap water drinkers, exciting new flavors.

Trump also reiterated his call

for lowering the corporate tax rate from 21 to 15%.

But even some Republicans seemed open to compromise between 15 and 21. That's the sweet spot, said Matt Gaetz.
But on top of the old school Republicans, that was that was like a Michelin two star was a detour, but worth it. But on top of the old school Republican tax cuts and deregulations, he, of course, layered on tariffs and mass deportations.

Your wages will rise. Your costs will fall.
Your job opportunities will grow because we will conduct the largest deportation operation, sadly, in American history. Who's that sadly for? It's not for them and it's not for us.
An easy cut, I think. you're not sad no one in that room is sad

well I mean you are all sad

you just don't know how to fix it. You've tried suppressing it.
You've tried buying a cyber truck. You've tried calling the HOA about your neighbor's pride flag.
Nothing's working. So tax cuts for the rich, tariffs or a giant sales tax for everyone else versus tax cuts for the middle class, loans for small businesses, affordable housing, caps on prescription drug prices.
This is a debate we can win. I know we always think Trump is Trump's worst enemy, but the American people know that he is an untrustworthy maniac.
There are just a lot of voters who think the economy was better under his administration. So Trump's policies are somehow also Trump's worst enemy.
According to the Washington Post, Trump is only six points ahead of Kamala on the economy, compared to 12 he had over President Biden earlier this year. Our goal is to fight to a draw over a question in which our argument is realistic, specific, progressive, and genuine versus a deranged charlatan whose policies would make life worse for all but like 200 freaks.
And battle to a draw we shall, like playing a sensitive child in a game he made up or the Korean War. Meanwhile, Tim Walls will attend the University of Michigan versus University of Minnesota football game in Ann Arbor on Saturday and speak to students about the importance of registering to vote.
This is where Tim Walls truly shines. When he's in coach mode, Tim Walls makes Ted Lasso look like Ted Hitler.
Speaking of Democrats making us proud, New York City Mayor Eric Adams was indicted on federal charges late on Wednesday, becoming the city's first mayor to face federal charges while in office. Soon, the rat czar said to her subterranean rodent army, as the Q train thundered above, very soon, my darlings, and all in good time.
The indictment was unsealed on Thursday, and what do you know, Adams faces five federal charges of bribery, fraud, and soliciting illegal foreign campaign donations for all that stuff that seemed, at the time, like bribery, fraud, and soliciting illegal foreign campaign donations. In one text exchange cited in the indictment, an Adams staffer who was arranging another paid-for trip to Turkey texted Adams, to be on the safe side, please delete all messages you send me.
Adams replied, always do. But do you? In another 10 out of 10 text message to see in an indictment, an Adams staffer asked a Turkish airline manager where else Adams could stay in Turkey.
The airline manager answered, fourasons, to which the staffer replied, it's too expensive. The airline manager wrote back, why does he care? He's not going to pay.
His name will not be on anything either. The staffer replied, super.
Anyway, that's how Adams wound up sleeping at a small Turkish business called Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

What a choice it is to do all of this in writing, to type it all out on a phone.

In other news, The Guardian published an article alleging that Heritage President Kevin Roberts,

one of the architects of Project 2025, told his work colleagues he killed a pit bull with a shovel in 2004. Though to be fair, I'd also be afraid if I saw a pit bull with a shovel in 2004.
Though, to be fair, I'd also be afraid if I saw a pit bull with a shovel. The pit bull's owners confirmed one of their dogs did go missing in 2004, but had no evidence that Roberts was responsible.
Except for that pit bull skin rug in his billiard room, but that could have come from anywhere. The evidence, it sure seems like Roberts told multiple colleagues he beat a dog to death in 2004.
Kenneth Hammond, the history chair at New Mexico University at the time, told The Guardian, my recollection of his account was that he was discussing in the hallways with various members of the faculty, including me, that a neighbor's dog had been barking pretty relentlessly and was, you know, keeping the baby and probably the parents awake, and that he kind of lost it and took a shovel and killed the dog. End of problem.
I feel like there still might be a problem. Another colleague and her spouse recalled Roberts telling the same story at a dinner party.
Roberts seemed to sincerely believe this was a solid anecdote. Need more proof? When Roberts was on Jeopardy, Alex Trebek opened the Get to Know the Contestants segment by saying,

Kevin, it says here you did some shoveling recently.

Three other professors say they heard the story around the same time from their shocked co-workers who heard it firsthand.

Imagine having this kind of office gossip in your possession.

You'd be there at 6 a.m. just vibrating in a conference room waiting for anyone to arrive.

Wrote the outlet, in a statement to to the Guardian Roberts denied ever killing a dog

with a shovel. The statement continued, it was actually more of a trowel.
Roberts denies it, he says, it's a patently untrue and baseless story backed by zero evidence. But then why do these people from separate gatherings remember you telling them a very specific story about killing a dog with a shovel? That dog don't hunt because you killed it with a shovel.
And finally, speaking of colleagues revealing terrible secrets, an FAA probe into Boeing found that factory workers felt pressured to prioritize fast production over high quality work. Not pressured, the cabins of Boeing airplanes after the doors blew off.
All right, when we come back, Vice President Kamala Harris is here and she's frankly exhausted. Between the two of you, odds are you'll remember everything.
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Look, we know things don't feel great right now,

but we can equip ourselves for the unprecedented months ahead without letting the news overwhelm us. Join us each week at Strict Scrutiny as we break down the cases that will decide the rules we all have to live by.
We'll supplement your daily news diet with a dose of necessary legal analysis and a healthy serving of our Real Housewives takes, some pop music, and 90s throwbacks because we believe there's no better way to unwind after an oral argument than by watching a stupid reality TV argument. Subscribe to Strict Scrutiny wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to check out full episodes on YouTube.
And we're back. We have less than six weeks till the election the latest polls show the race is a toss up the stakes are higher than I am on a Saturday afternoon watching the emperor's new groove shout out to Earth the Kid it's time to shift into another gear it's time to get pumped up it's time to leave it all on the fucking field but I've already given you all the pep talks I have here tonight to blow the roof off the place.
It's Vice President Kamala Harris.

Oh God, that's right, John. All right, who's ready to get hyped?

You okay, Madam Vice President? You seem a little tired. Well, tired.
Why would I be tired? I haven't slept for the last two months. Why would I, of all people, be tired? Needing sleep is a weakness, John.
Okay? And winners can't have weaknesses. I've never felt better.
Okay? Never more alert. I can see every detail on every bird in this room.
There are no birds in this room. There are no birds here.
I'm actually too alert, in fact. My brain is processing everything too fast and too accurately.
And I'm just, you know, I'm gonna close my eyes for one quick second on account of how awake I am. And I'm just gonna close them.
Right now you're on stage in front of a... Okay, she's asleep.
What was that sound? Oh, uh, right now? Yeah. It's almost like we're in your dream.
Yeah, what are you doing in my dream? What are you doing here, John? It can't be your dream. It's my show.
Oh, no. It's definitely my dream.
I mean, look. Teddy Roosevelt is here.
Wait a second. Yes.
Kamala, my coconut pearl, you're looking radiant as always. You know, usually when he shows up, it's for a sex dream.
We call ourselves Rough Riders. Okay, I hate that.
I hate that. But, you know, I guess we're going to have to do something else since you're here, John.
Honestly, thank God, and I appreciate that, but what does it mean that I still experience myself

as a conscious agent

in someone else's dream?

Is the whole universe

just a product

of a dreaming higher intelligence

and when that mind wakes up,

we all cease to exist?

Who brought the dyspeptic Jew?

Fuck.

Honestly, who knows?

Teddy, since we can't, you know,

go at it how we wanna,

could I ask you for some advice?

I'll tell you what I told my son Kermit when I handed him his first gun at age three. Shoot! Okay.
All right, all right. Well, I'm here, so maybe we can both just ask Teddy Roosevelt some questions.
Sure. We don't normally get access to Teddy Roosevelt.
I mean, I get access to him. I'm a bully, I'll say, indeed.
Teddy. All right, all right.
Come sit down, Teddy Roosevelt. Well, I think I might.
I might take a quick break here, yes. Teddy, you know, you were vice president, who went on to become president.
Indeed, what a tragedy befell President McKinley. Yeah.
Right. Is targeting suburban moderates in North Carolina, is that the secret? I was indeed the first Republican candidate for president to crack the borders of the old Confederacy.
This is something that I'm very proud of. The first Republican to carry the state of North Carolina.
Well, that's an interesting fact. In answer to your question, these United States must be targeted one by one.
North Carolina, South Carolina, East Carolina, and West Carolina should be admitted to the union, as I wish it would be. God, he's so dumb.
It's hot. Yeah, it is.
He is hot. It's just...
He's so hot. I want it.
Yeah. Hey, President Roosevelt, it says in your Wikipedia, you don't know what that is.
It's not important. Zoology, your interest in...
I will have you know I own all 60 volumes of Wikipedia, and I purchased them from a salesman who came door to door. Oh.
Neat. Your interest in zoology began age seven when you saw a dead seal at a market.
After retaining the seal's head, you and your cousin formed the Roosevelt Museum of Natural History. It's pretty RFK Jr.
quoted, wouldn't you say? Indeed, I was roused from my slumber in Hades because I heard that there was a credible third-party candidate running under the bull moose mantle for the presidency of the United States, and I said, bully, it's time for me to go lend him my support, and on top of that, he eats bears. And when I arrived, it turned out he'd already dropped out, so here we are.
You keep slapping your knee like that, I'm going to send John out the room. Wow.
That's Kamala's kink. Oh, my huckleberry.
My chickadee. My field hen.
We'll have our aces yet. Oh, you crazy.
I'm just trying to understand the... You're so crazy, Teddy.
So there's a bit of a delay to get the news down in Hades. It's not an internet thing.
So you get a paper of some kind. So by the time you got here, what is the traveling that you did to get here? I follow the path of Orpheus, you see.
Oh, Orpheus. Yes.
Gatcheson, Topeka, and Santa Fe Railroad. I had to go, I had to take it across the River Styx even.
Luckily, we had built a canal through Panama and it expedited the journey somewhat.

See, I thought he was talking about the Matrix.

Yeah, in a way he is also talking about the Matrix.

Do you think America is ready for their first woman president?

Well, when I look out at this manful country of ours,

and I look every man in the eye,

man upon man upon man,

our destiny, as men of destiny,

and this is all basically ripped from the walls

of the Natural History Museum in New York,

that mankind shall man forward,

man by man by man, until man is victorious over anything less than man. That was beautiful.
What the fuck? What did you eat? What is that? Well, if there's one thing that I look down on, it is a bully. I hate bullies, too.
And I've recommended to every young boy that I came across, if you find a bully, you should confront him. And if that means voting for the first woman to be president of these United States, then I say it's my time to have it happen 124 years after I did it for the first time.
John, go away. Wow.
It's turning on. Your question, yes, yes, you sniveling man.
All right, taking that feedback. Your daughter had a snake named Emily Spinach.
Yes. What a fine thing for a daughter.
But it seems like you had strong-willed daughters. Of course she was very strong.

We were all strong.

We were Roosevelt's.

Right.

What do you think of your...

The word Roosevelt is synonymous with strength.

What do you think of your grand...

And masculinity, even if it's a woman.

Right.

You're a strong, masculine Roosevelt woman.

What do you think about that grand-nephew-in-law of yours,

Eleanor Roosevelt.

Fine. Fine, I'd say.
Sure. What? The democratic wing of our family was not as, how should I say, adept with the ladies as I was.
You're saying Eleanor Roosevelt wasn't as with the ladies as you are? Well, my understanding is that she may have had some masculine qualifications of her own, according to my book. No, that bitch was gay.
Yeah. That bitch was so gay.
She, that, Hicks, it was her and the reporter, Hicks. So I understand.
So I've been led to believe. President Roosevelt, you got obsessed with simplified spelling, and started spelling everything phonetically in all your letters and pissed off Congress by ordering all documents issued to the White House to be spelled phonetically.
People don't know that about you. I think it's one of your best qualities.
What made you decide you wanted everything to be spelled phonetically? Because I was boxed to the face, so I was half blind, and there was no other way to read. Right.
Got it. Let me tell you something.
If you enter the ring with a boxing glove, and you had to go four rounds against an anthropomorphic medicine ball, you, too, would lose sight in one eye, and you, too, would demand that everything be spelled phonetically, as these United States deserve. My greatest recommendation to you, Vice President Harris, is that you, if you want to crack the state of North, East, West, and South Carolina, I recommend phonetic spelling.
John, I think you should leave... And statehood for Arizona.
I think you should leave the room while we have a moment. Oh, he's really going.
I'll just be back here. You guys have your moment for one second.
I want to talk about guns.

Firearms.

Yeah, you're a Republican who's super into guns and hunting.

And you know, I have a gun.

There's one person who's way too into it.

That is something that does work on certain kinds of swing voters such as myself. A Democrat, no.
But with a gun, maybe. I was going to ask.
It makes you like me, right? It does indeed. I have a gun right now.
Of course you do. It's a gun in my pocket.
Well, I speak softly, but I carry a big stick, I'll have you know. All right, I'm glad I came back when I did before this got out of hand.
Do you have any parting thoughts for us, President Roosevelt? Because we're here in Vice President Kamala Harris's dream, and she must be having to be woken up in a few minutes for another interview. And I was just wondering if you have any parting thoughts, given that we only have so little time with someone who, you know, is so handsome.
That's right. Uh-oh.
I cut a figure of raw, masculine, American frontier sexuality. Take a look, folks.
This is what everybody was fiddling it to some 130, 500 years ago. When I stood on the back of those railroad cars and delivered those speeches slapping against my thigh and hip, which absolutely hastened my early demise, people were looking at me from below the tracks, Atchison, Topeka, Santa Fe, the Indiana and so-and-so railroad, and they were looking up at me, and you could see their petticoats flapping.

I know what that means.

Wow.

We all know what that means.

Kamala, any final thoughts?

That was hot.

That was so dumb.

I loved it, every moment of it.

Wow.

Before you go, Teddy, can I ask?

Yes, my kitten?

Why did you do all the weird crap?

All the eccentric hobbies, obsession with side quests,

that got you tropical diseases?

Why'd you do that?

You mean the collection of animals?

The Amazonian taper?

Yeah, the Amazonian taper.

Yeah.

The giant Wyoming sloth?

Yeah, the Wyoming sloth.

That I kept as a pet and rode as a workhorse and then ate as a meal.

Yeah, why? Because, my dear, I would have gone insane. The presidency of the United States, you see, is something that is not meant for a mere shoulders of one feeble man or something else.
Do you believe that anyone could handle the presidency of the United States, the pressure thereof, for eight years or almost, in case you took over right after someone else was elected and entered office as I did when McKinley was so tragically shot and changed history for the better? I would have lost my mind, my dear. I had to hunt a dozen rhinoceros

just so I could get

to my first presidential election.

But then, by God,

I won.

Yeah.

They don't know whether to like me or not, and I like it that

way. Yeah, I don't either, to be honest.

But you know what?

I like that. I think I'm gonna go to a 24-hour gun range at 2 a.m.
and laugh like Jack Nicholson's the Joker. You know, the best and only Joker, because that's what I need, okay, to stay positive.
And I will become the president of the United States. All right.
Well, I think it's time to wake up. I have never been more enamored of a woman who had all the powers of a man

and all the better things of the other sex that I can't even bring myself to say in words.

All right.

My exotic flower.

Uh-oh.

All right.

Get out of here, Teddy Roosevelt.

He kept a PG for you.

Oh, he's still wounded.

God, it's so hard. He's so wounded in the dream.
I will continue these remarks at a further time. All right, get out of here, Teddy Roosevelt.
He kept a PG for you. Oh, he's still wounded.
God, it's so hot. He's so wounded in the dream.
I will continue these remarks at a further time. All right.
President Teddy Roosevelt, everybody. From deep within the wells of Kamala's subconscious.
You know, next time you're here, you better be wearing a cowboy hat, spectacles, and nothing else. Well, let's see if I can get my suspenders off.
It takes 35 minutes to put them on. Teddy Roosevelt, everybody.
Bye, Teddy. Thank you, my Nightingale.
Kamala, wake up. Kamala, you got wake up! Oh, no! Oh, no!

No! What?

Oh.

John,

what the hell are you doing here?

Where are we? A gay haunted house?

Alright. Give it up for Vice President

Kamala Harris and former

President Teddy Roosevelt, everybody.

Alright.

I'm gonna go take a nap. Kam'm going to go take a nap.
Kamala's got to go take a nap. All right.
And we're back. Please welcome the stage.
The man behind the mysteries, the one and only Damon Lindelof. Hi.
Thanks for being here. Come on in.
All right. How you doing? I'm fantastic.
How are you? Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here.
All right. So big fan.
When I just learned so much about Teddy Roosevelt. There was a lot of Teddy Roosevelt facts that really floored us.
He became interested in jujitsu at one point and tried to get the whole military to learn jujitsu. I love a person that leads by just brief enthusiasms.
So when we were talking about what to talk about, we couldn't believe how many incredible projects you've been a part of. Leftovers, Watchmen, Mrs.
Davis, was one that I loved most recently, which a lot of people didn't see. No one even knows it exists.
Which we're going to come back to, which is exciting. We'll have some fun with that.
And here's what I was actually thinking about when I looked at all the different series and movies you've been a part of is a lot of them are incredible, but seem to me unpitchable. That these are ideas that only work once you see them because every single part of them managed to be excellent.
But if you described it on paper, like we, I don't even want to spoil what Mrs. Davis is because we're going to talk about it later.
But like, even if you describe the leftovers or you talk about the Watchmen that you were a part of, it doesn't come across because I like, I'm curious about how you talk to executives and made them understand what you were trying to see, because it is like an act of persuasion. Thanks for saying all that.
I think in the case of the leftovers and Watchmen, Leftovers was based on an incredible book by Tom Parado. Watchmen was a graphic novel, 12 issues of a comic book that came out in the eighties.
And so there's some basic familiarity, and then you're sort of trying to explain to someone why it matters to you and the why now of it all. Lost, which was the first show that I did.
Thank you very much. Just had its 20th anniversary.
I think that there are, you know, speaking of jujitsu, I think that, like, there's something about the entertainment business where everyone says that they want something original but they actually don't they want something familiar so you kind of have to pivot on on both feet and say that the show is like oh that's still lost i thought they were found twist great lost lost again um but people don't want something original but you give them something original right you give them something original and so you kind of try not to talk yourself in circles as I'm doing now and make it simple you talk about the characters but then you ultimately say this is going to be a television show unlike anyone has ever seen before and therefore how can I possibly explain it to you and sometimes they buy it well I mean but some they don't actually like have there been moments where like you deliver like a version of the pilot of the first episode of Watchmen and like oh this is different than anything we could have possibly expected and are there ever been unpleasant surprises that they actually were given something unexpected? I think all the time. I mean, there's definitely a be careful what you wish for aspect to it all.
You sit in a room with a bunch of writers, as I know that you've done, and you try to kind of delight each other and surprise one another and scare one another. And I, and I, I start to feel really comfortable when I get uncomfortable.
Um, and so that's the idea that kind of turns us on collectively. And then once it breaks out of that enclave of the room and suddenly you have to share it with other people, um, that's the moment where they, they realize, oh, uh, this is not what I signed up for.
And I do think that there's kind of like a fun mischief in the act of kind of being at war with television executives and studio executives. I think that the more uncomfortable that we make them sometimes, the more delighted that they are.
I don't think anybody goes to work wanting to be bored. I think that people are sometimes scared of losing their jobs.
But if you ask them, you know, 20 years after they retire, like what are the moments that they remember? It tends to be the craziest shit that they permitted. You talked about the leftovers.
I love the leftovers. The leftovers was obviously prescient in the sense that it was about a bunch of people collectively dealing with the trauma of a sudden loss.
You talked about the first season versus the second and third season that in the first season, I was against any level of humor because humor would not exist in this space. And I think that was completely and totally the wrong instinct.
I'm curious if that was the wrong

instinct because just

Jermaine exist in this space. And I think that was completely and totally the wrong instinct.
I'm curious if that was the wrong instinct because just dramatically, whatever, creatively, the show needed to be lighter. I mean, you threw out the credits and did fun credits, which I think was an unsubtle way of making that point.
But was it also something that you took away from even just thinking about post-pand post pandemic about how we handle moments of crisis? That's a really interesting question. I mean, Tom Parada wrote the book sort of in the response to 9-11 in a lot of ways, several years later, and The Leftovers came out before the pandemic.
But I think I like you, I'm a Jew, I was raised in the Jewish culture, and we do not do humor and sadness and death at the same time. There's a rending of garments and there's a sitting of Shiva and we're not an uncomedic people, but I think we tend to take loss very seriously.
The Catholics, on the other hand, they're having a fucking great time. An Irish wake is like, oh I would literally like kill somebody to get to be invited to one of those things.
And so I think that's sort of like the energy of how do we respond to shocking loss to create like sort of the entire parabola of we're kind of quietly going insane and sometimes insanity is quite fun. And that was the energy that we got into.
And I think that when we were all sort of, it's hard to think about and remember how crazy we were in the first couple months of COVID in like March and April of 2020, when my wife and I were literally like comparing notes with leaving our groceries out in the sun and how we should like wipe them down with Clorox and et cetera, et cetera. And it's like those things actually make us feel better psychologically, these rites and rituals.
And so that's a lot of world religions and cults are sort of based on, these are the things that you need to do to feel less pain. And the show is really fixated on that idea.
Yeah. But then, I mean, it would be nice to have like an Irish Shiva, you know? It would.
Like there's no reason. We can mix it up.
Yeah. It's funny.
It isn't a space for alcohol, a Shiva. And it's eight days.
Right. Isn't it? Or six days.
Too long. Seven.
I don't know. I was, I mixed it up with Hanukkah.
I don't know. I'm not sure.
Yeah. It's not Hanukkah.
Yeah. And we've always said that.
It's beautiful. Shiva's awesome.
I don't want to, you know, I've been to some excellent shivas, but they're not laugh-rides. Hey, no, listen.
The shiva community is not going to be upset. People know that shivas are not fun.
And there's nothing wrong with admitting that shivas, they're no fun. They're not.
They're not fun, you know, but they could be a little bit drunker. As the creator of Lost, any advice for someone who just left an island? You know, you got done dirty.
Thank you, man. And no spoilers, I haven't seen last night's episode yet.
We watched religiously with my family. We are huge Survivor fans.
We're very, very excited to see you on there. And I can't wait to see Andy go.
But I will say there is glory in going first. If you go fifth, if you go ninth, the worst thing you can be on Survivor is the goat at the very end.

You know, the third that the person who gets literally no votes.

You went hard.

You you as you said yourself, it was it was a perfect episode.

And thank you for saying that.

It's no, no, I agree.

It is the funniest way to go.

I just have one question, though, which is there's that one clip that they show us.

And you're kind of introducing yourself to your tribe mates.

Thank you. I just have one question though which is there's that one clip

that they show us

and you're kind of

introducing yourself

to your tribe mates

and I think you must have said

that you were from LA

because one of them says

oh are you from WeHo?

Yes

and then you said

no not from WeHo

but I have this podcast

it's kind of a big deal

and it's called

have you guys heard

of Pod Save America

or Crooked Media

or whatever

and they were like

no no no

and I was like

in the Venn diagram

of people

I don't know. podcast.
It's kind of a big deal. And it's called, have you guys heard of Pod Save America or Crooked Media or whatever? And they were like, no, no, no.
And I was like, in the Venn diagram of people who know what WeHo is, but have never heard the podcast, I just felt like that was a very narrow sliver. So did we miss something? Was something edited out? So first of all, so that's Anika, who's getting a lot of shit for the fact, people were like, oh, you're gay and from los angeles we hope no but uh uh i think there's more people knew about i think like there was more information it's an edit it's a joke it's the edit was very fair but yes there's a lot more there's more context there like there's a moment where i'm like i love tiktok it is very embarrassing and i deserve to be embarrassed but there was a longer conversation.
You know, it's... So there was that.

As a 51-year-old, I think 41 is still quite young, so...

No, and that's what I thought, too, until I got there.

So you just announced a Green Lantern show.

Like, it's called Lanterns,

because we all agreed that the green was stupid.

Right.

So now it's just Lanterns So green lantern, lantern, the lantern. So you can make anything you can imagine? If you have this magical ring.
Right. And the fights are still close? Yeah.
Interesting. Interesting.
Can I say about World War Z? Please. I love World War Z.
And here's what I think was cool about World War Z. It's a rare success for the reshoots.
Like people, it was covered as a cursed production and it got kind of like criticism for that. And oh, the end had to be changed.
I liked it. Why wasn't there a second World War Z? I want to see what happens.
I want to be in the world more. I would love to see another World War Z.
Any more Brad fighting zombies? Great. I hear they've been working on it for a number of years and could happen, could maybe not happen.

I haven't gotten any inquiries. I always sign up for zombies.
They're the best. Yeah.
Do you like slow zombies or fast zombies? Fast ones. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Although who wrote that book that talked about how the only chance any of us would ever have would be against slow zombies, that if we're talking about a world with fast zombies, we're fucked anyway. Slow zombies are the only way we got a chance.
That's a book? It was a whole book. Wow.
I think it's the zombie survival guide. What was up with that polar bear? Still working on it.
Yeah. You never cracked that polar bear.
No, there was a, do you really want me to answer? There's a Dharma a dharma initiative they they came from ann arbor they were doing experiments on the island polar bears are very territorial they were trying to uh medicate them so that they wouldn't be so aggressive and and uh and and basically extrapolate that into some form of world peace one of them got out and started biting people. I was mad at you about something.

I'm realizing now in this very moment

that's something I was mad about.

Which is, I was really into Lost.

Let's work it out.

I was really into Lost.

And then I think you in an interview

were asked about the polar bear

and you said,

oh, we're not really sure what that was there for.

There was an interview,

someone gave an interview saying,

we are not totally sure.

When we put the polar bear in,

we weren't sure what the polar bear would be to.

Are you sure that wasn't JJ? It might have been jj yeah we we're we both wear glasses well it was it was a print interview when i was a kid when i was younger so i didn't know i wasn't in the business at the time i was just mad because i thought if you don't know the answer why we neither of us know the answer then what are we doing here with a polar bear i'm gonna be honest with you because i i don't want you to be angry. There were some things, a few things on Lost, that we were figuring out as we went along.
You son of a bitch. But the polar bear was not one of them.
In the very early days, we were like, they were doing weird experiments and the polar bear got loose from a cage on the island. Just kind of more or less.
I hate when that happens with my polar bear. All right.
Thank you. All right.
Well, I'm glad. Honestly, I'm glad we resolved that.
Now, that's a good example of how your shows inspire intense, longstanding fandoms. I am no exception to that, which is why we're going to play a game we're calling Master of None.
Oh, my God. Wow.
Here's how it works. I'm going to go into the audience and find volunteers.
You're going to ask our audience questions about the best TV show of the last 10 years, Mrs. Davis.
Okay. I love Mrs.
Davis. I don't think anybody's seen it, so this should be interesting.
I think this is actually, be honest, how many of you have watched all of Mrs. Davis? There's like three people.
There's three people. Yep.
There's three people. Wow.
Peacock, everybody.

All right.

Do you have questions or do I need to get started?

This bit's going to go great.

All right.

So it's time for Masters of None.

All right.

Hi.

What's your name?

Sarah.

Have you seen Mrs. Davis?

Not at all.

Okay.

Damon, ask the first question.

This is great.

First question, Sarah.

Who is Mrs. Davis? Any guess.
Just shoot for it. A woman in a pier.
Wrong. Who's Mrs.
Davis? Susan Sarandon. No, that's just an actor.
That's a good guess. I haven't seen it, but I assume AI.
Yes! Hey!

All right, Damon,

go to the second question.

That's true.

It is an AI.

It's an AI.

In the first episode,

we find out that Mrs. Davis,

who is an AI,

as we've just established,

wants to destroy what ancient item?

A, the Ark of the Covenant,

B, the Holy Grail,

C, the Shroud of Turin,

or D, the Three Sacred Treasures of Japan? Hi, what's the answer? The Holy Grail. That's right.
That's correct. Wow.
This show sounds great. It's really good.
Nobody saw Mrs. Davis.
Nobody saw it. Nobody saw even a shot of it.
You don't get nice things because you didn't watch Mrs. Davis.
Hi, what's your name? Jack. David, ask another question.
Okay, Sister Simone, the disgruntled nun played by the terrific Betty Gilpin. She's amazing.
On Mrs. Davis, spends her spare time debunking what profession and why.
Wow, if you get this. Taxidermy.
No! Close. No! That's a good one to debunk, though.
ER doctor. ER doctor doctor Did he say character debunks doctors? They're not debunkable, they're good AI No, that's not a profession That would be good Psychiatry No, getting closer Social work Debunking social work?

Somebody's got to.

It's magic.

It's magic.

It's magicians.

Her parents are both magicians.

Her parents were magicians, and that would fuck you up.

It's terrible.

We're getting deep now.

Okay, next question.

Who do we got?

Hi, what's your name? Ross.

Ross.

Ross, can artificial intelligence gain the ability to believe in the way that humans can? No. Yes.
No. Incorrect.
Thank God. Thank God.
All right. We're coming down the slope now.
Big, big shout out to Tara Hernandez, who co-created the show she's an amazing writer next question which is not something that happens in the show Mrs. Davis A.
despondent upon discovering his liver transplant was fake a man enters a rodeo to prove himself B. a man is electrocuted by lightning C.
a pope reveals an ad for sneakers. Or D, someone gets crucified big time.

Out of those, the lightning seems the most boring.

So I'm going to go with lightning.

Wrong.

They all happen in Mrs. Davis.

All of them.

I think they're going to want to watch the show now.

Finally, what is the Lazarus Shroud?

What is the Lazarus Shroud?

Any guesses?

Oh, I have the last one.

I got nothing on one. I got nothing

on this. I can.
Oh, yes. I remember what it is.
It's and it's insane. This is an unguessable thing.
Why don't you tell us, John? Oh, it's a special suit that protects you from the acid inside of a whale's stomach. This is a show on Peacock.
Yeah. All right.
We were ahead of our time on that didn't rfK have some whale carcass? That's right. That's right.
All right. And final, this is the final question.
Oh, you're supposed to ask it. Oh, why do you think this show spoke to me, John Lovett, so deeply? Okay.
Why do I think that it spoke to you so deeply? Yeah, like it so much i i think um you have a background in mathematics and then you segued into creativity and that strikes me as the kind of person who wants to have order uh and and sensical answers to the world but you've come to sort of migrate at this point in your life to realize that you don't, but religion doesn't provide you with the answers that you crave. And so shows like this speak to your sense of how the world works and why we're all alive.
I mean, that's incorrect. It's because McDornan is hot, but he is.
He is very hot. Damon Lindelof, everybody.
That was fun. When we come back, it's time for Hot Takes.
Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way.
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Join us each week at Strict Scrutiny as we break down the cases that will decide the rules we all have to live by. We'll supplement your daily news diet with a dose of necessary legal analysis and a healthy serving of our Real Housewives takes, some pop

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And we're back!

Alright, it's time to sit back, relax, and enjoy an ice cold glass of Heinz ketchup because Love It or Leave It is headed to the Roxian in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on Friday, October 4th. We'll help take the hedge off the last few last four election day with comedian Mateo Lane, playwright R.
Eric Thomas, and PA's own congressional candidate, Janelle Stelzen. We want the Rocks team to be as stuffed with lowly fans as your sandwiches are stuffed with French fries.
So grab your tickets at crooked.com slash events. See you there.
That one's almost sold out. Also, Empire City.
Earlier this week, Eric Adams became the first mayor of New York City in history to be federally indicted while in office, but we all know that corruption doesn't stop in City Hall. So who is the badge created to protect and who does it really serve? From Wondery, Crooked Media, and Push Black, our newest podcast, Empire City, the untold story of the NYPD, takes a deep dive into the hidden history of New York's police department, one of the oldest and largest forces in the world, giving you everything you need to understand policing's past and where it's headed.
Follow Empire City. Couldn't be more timely.
It's excellent. It is excellent.
Wherever you get your podcasts, binge all episodes early, ad-free with Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. All right.
Please welcome back

to the stage for the first time, our wonderful guests, Alison Reese and James Adomian.

Hi, Alison. Hi, James.

Nice to see you. How are you? Pleasure.
How are you?

All right.

Now it is time for Hot Takes.

Here's how it works.

We're going to,

a take will be thrown up on the screen for each of us.

I have genuinely not seen these.

These are written for us by the producers of the show.

You have 30 seconds to try as hard as you can to defend the take.

If you don't like it, you can skip it,

but the next one may be worse.

We'll each get one skip. Let's see what we have.
Ellen did nothing wrong. Skip, skip.
That's the one you... Too far.
Project 2025 isn't all bad. Yeah, here's why Project 2025 isn't all bad.
Every once in a while in a cartoon, the coyote will end up dressed in a beautiful dress and have lipstick on, or Elmer Fudd will somehow dress up as a beautiful woman to try to trick Bugs Bunny into something that isn't good for Bugs Bunny. And in many ways, that's what the Republican Party is.
It is nice that Project 2025 just, there is no, it is the removal of any doubt about what they represent. Like, this is This is who we are.
It is nice that Project 2025 just there is no it is the removal of any doubt about what they represent. Like this is this is who we are.
It is down on paper. I like that.
It's it's reminiscent to me of how I really like New York mean over Midwest nice because I know what I'm getting. Yeah.
As opposed to like guessing of like what the fuck it means when you say...

Who's the lipstick on a pig for?

You're still fucking a pig.

And it's not persuasive.

Let's see what's next.

James, from the right angle,

J.D. Vance is kind of hot.

From the right angle, J.D. Vance is kind of hot.
From the right angle, J.D. Vance is kind of hot.
What angle? Face down, lights off. Sorry, that was my fault.
That's on me. That's on me.
That one's on me. I'm sorry I did that.
That's on me. Look, I was given a play, and I did it.
I'm a football player. You know what? The coach calls the play.
I do it. JD Vance would be fine if he wasn't a public figure or, like, doing anything.
If you... Right.
Like, if he was just some guy that you would run into in the community, like, out and about, like, oh, it's this guy at the bar, that would be fine. If he was just some guy you'd run into and he would be wrong and kind of laugh at his own jokes.
Yeah, no, there's something interesting about Vance versus Trump. Like, why does the shtick from Trump give Trump the same lines as Vance? They work for Trump.
They don't work for Vance. And I feel like it's the difference between anger and disdain.
Like Trump always seems angry. J.D.
Vance always seems like he's full of like anger plus disgust. Like Trump doesn't do that in the same way.
Trump is furious, but almost like there's a, his anger, despite everything we know about him, there's a performance of hope inside of his anger. Like he's, it's his version.
He's righteously indignant on the behalf of people. With Vance, it's disgust and anger.
It's contempt. It's disdain.
It's an unsolvable anger. He really did get picked in the depths of his emo phase.

Yes. Well, that's why he has the eyeliner too.

I mean, he's got peeling posters of Ronald Reagan up in his bedroom,

talking on the phone at night.

Remember when that story broke that Josh Hawley had a picture of a super,

super hot guy holding a baby in his dorm room? And he said the reason he had the poster up in his dorm room is because he was pro-life. Let's see what's next.
Allison, I wish I could give birth to Mudang. I love her so much.
She is my daughter. No.
You people weren't here last week. I think Mudang is gross.
Sorry. All right, I wish I could give birth to Mudang.
I love her so much. She's my daughter.
Have you seen my slimy, bulbous daughter, Mudang? Isn't she gorgeous? Here she is now. Mudang, my sweet honey.

I'm so...

Hungry, hungry.

She's a hungry, hungry hippo,

and I need to get her some marbles quickly.

My sweet, sweet daughter,

I think she's going to change the world.

And I think she's beautiful

and not disgustingly wet at all times. Mudang.
R.I.P. No, Mudang's alive.
What? Guys fall for it every time. All right, let's see who's next.
It's the silver alert. They went missing again again Are they testing the system? Maybe I think it's sort of percolating slowly through the room Nerds need to calm down already Nerds Yeah Nerds Of which I am one And so I know I know what I mean And what I say is that we need to calm down.
We need to take it down a notch. We get too upset about the wrong casting decision or our favorite shows ending poorly.
Or great. Or being divisive.
All of these of these things we gotta live our lives man we gotta get out we gotta get in the ocean take hikes get some sunlight be with our friends eat good food and and you think nerds can do that? and argue about who the best Joker is because that's really the only question that matters. And I am curious, who is the best Joker? Who do you think the best Joker is? I think the, this is a bit of a cop-out, I will say my two favorite Jokers.
Okay. Well, I'm going to do three favorite Jokers.
But I'll say this. What a politician.
I'm going to say Heath Ledger to me is the greatest joker. I don't have a contrarian take.
I was going to say that Mark Hamill's cartoon joker is phenomenal. And was it Cesar Romero? Cesar Romero, yes.

And the Adam West was so funny.

He's the funniest.

He's so, he's just so hammy.

I love those.

Who's your favorite Joker?

I was going to go with Heath Ledger.

He's a fan favorite.

Fantastic.

Won the Oscar.

Yeah.

No, he was incredible.

But we're both wrong.

And here's why.

Oh.

Because we're always wrong.

Right.

Because if we're right,

then we can't fight about it.

Well.

And that's why we as nerds.

Nerds.

the But we're both wrong, and here's why. Because we're always wrong.
Because if we're right, then we can't fight about it. And that's why we as nerds need to calm down.
Well, here's what I do. I think that two things have happened.
I think part of the reason, so being a nerd used to be a hard skill, and then it became a soft skill. Being a nerd used to require knowing how to get information, where to go, who to talk to, the stores, the library.
There were steps you had to take, people you need to know. Being a nerd required being a bit of a detective.
To have a hobby took a lot of work. And it became more of a soft skill.
Everyone has access to everything. And so how do you prove how much you're a nerd when all the information is available to everyone all the time? When you can go on YouTube and find the deepest of deep cuts, everything has been flattened.
And I think the way people demonstrate now how much they are nerds is in part by their passion. And I feel like that creates – and because you have access to the people and creating the things you're passionate about, it's kind of like – it's a reinforcing – it's a vicious circle, right? The only way I can prove how much I'm a nerd is through my emotion.
And oh, by the way, I get feedback on those emotions in a way that wouldn't have happened a generation ago. And I think that together has been like a toxic combination.
I would also say, in addition to agreeing with everything that you just said, that when I was a nerd in the 80s, which is when it was absolutely terrible, there was no upside. But now President Obama is also a nerd.
And so our territory, nerd territory can be infringed upon by jocks who like science fiction, but nerds can't fucking play sports. So we don't have our own territory anymore, and that's why we get so feisty about who the best joker is.
Right, because people claim the mantle. As a cool ally, I just want to thank you for having this conversation.
My ears are open, and I'm learning, and I'm listening. That's beautiful.
And I really, I just, I appreciate what's going on here. I think the best Joker has to be from 1989, Jack Nicholson.
Wow. Winged freak.
Terrorizes. Wait till they get a load of me.
Pretty good. Jack Nicholson was awesome as a Joker.

You know, not enough is said about

how the 1989 Batman

really is the thing that opened the door

to movies only getting to be about one thing.

And that's Hot Takes.

When we come back, we're going to end on a high note.

And we're back. Because we all need it, here it going to end on a high note.
And we're back.

Because we all need it, here it is, this week's high note.

Hi, Lovett and team.

My name is Laura, and my high note is that on September 27th,

my husband, Mark, celebrated 12 years of sobriety.

I am so proud of him and grateful for how committed he is to his recovery.

Without this commitment, we would not have recently celebrated nine years together or have our beautiful two-year-old son, Jamie. Importantly, Mark is of service to others and is involved in leading a recovery group and also sponsors others to help them get into recovery.
Mark, you are a wonderful husband and dad, and I love you so much. I love it..
I'm Kendra from Chicago and my high note is that with

so much help from my amazing bandmates in She's Crafty, Chicago's all-female BC Voice tribute,

I hosted a hugely successful postcards to voters event at a local bar this past week.

I hosted two other nights in June and early July where a total of 10 people came and eight of them

Thank you. at a local bar this past week.
I hosted two other nights in June and early July where a total of 10 people came and eight of them were my close friends. This week, about 50 people showed up on a Tuesday night and wrote a thousand postcards.
People are so excited and want to do something. It gave me so much hope and I realized that even in deep blue Chicago, in a deep blue neighborhood, people aren't sure how to find opportunities to volunteer.
So it's up to us unhealthy political weirdos to not only help our communities find those opportunities, but to create them. So love it, audience.
Let's grab the normies in our lives and LFG. Thank you.
Thanks, everybody. You sent in a high note tonight.
If you want to send us a message about something that made you feel hopeful, send us a voice memo. You know what? You have to do it in the front of the pod subscriber now.
That's it. It's for the...
Oh, no, have to do it. Yeah.
I got you the damn email. Oh my God.
I didn't even notice. Holy shit.
Huge news. If you want to send us a high note, it's L-O-L-I high notes, lowly high notes at crooked.com.
We did it. We did it.
It only took us eight years to finally get our own email address. Or if you're a friend of the pod subscriber, you have the exclusive ability to leave us your high notes without the hassle of a call or email.
Head over to the Friend

of the Pod Discord server and post a comment in the Love It or Leave It channel or the High Notes

channel for a chance to hear it featured on the show. That is our show.
Thank you so much to

Damon Lindelof, Alison Reese, James Adomian. 37 days until the 2024 elections.
If you haven't

signed up yet, do me a favor. Sign up at votesaveamerica.com.
Have a great night and have a great weekend. Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production.
It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer.
Chris Lord is our producer. And Kennedy Hill is our associate producer.
Hallie Keeper is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus and Jocelyn Kaufman,

Peter Miller, Alan Pierre,

Will Miles and Mahana del Shiki are our writers.

Evan Sutton is our editor.

Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support.

Stephen Colon is our audio engineer

and Milo Kim is our videographer.

Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure.

Thanks to our designer, Bernardo Serna,

for creating and running all of our visuals,

which you can't see because this is a podcast.

And to our digital producers,

David Tolles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, and Matt DeGroat for filming and editing video visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast, and to our digital producers, David Toles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman,

and Matt DeGroat,

for filming and editing video each week so you can.

It's love it or leave it.

Love it or leave it.