Night at the MAGAseum

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Speaker 1 What's up, Los Angeles?

Speaker 1 Welcome to Love It or Leave It live from Dynasty Typewriter. What a show.

Speaker 1 Now, you may have noticed that a few weeks ago, I made a joke about how, wow, you won't believe the guests we get during four-year consideration season.

Speaker 1 We have got an incredible show for you tonight. Tony Gilroy is here.

Speaker 1 And the force is certainly with him. Adam Scott and Patricia Arquette are here.

Speaker 1 And they can't remember when they agreed to it.

Speaker 1 We're going to chat about their unforgettable shows and answer some tiny questions, then take some big swings at the wheel. But first, let's get into it.
What a week.

Speaker 1 It has taken 10 years, but when it comes to dealing with Donald Trump, world leaders have moved from denial to anger to bargaining, finally to acceptance with depression and some bargaining.

Speaker 1 Or, as I call them, the five stages of beef.

Speaker 1 That's what that deserved. It's been a long road to acceptance, and you can watch it play out through a history of weird handshakes.

Speaker 1 Here's Trump's endless handshake with French President Emmanuel Macron in 2017.

Speaker 1 That goes on for nearly 30 seconds, which is crazy. A handshake shouldn't last as long as sex.

Speaker 1 Here's Trump refusing to let go of late Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Speaker 1 That one was 19 seconds. I know, twice as long as sex.

Speaker 1 And look, Neil Gorsuch isn't a world leader, so this is a little off topic, but Trump repeatedly yanks him during a handshake.

Speaker 1 It's sad to see someone like Neil Gorsuch have to experience someone taking control away of his body from him.

Speaker 1 We also saw in February what happens when a leader refuses to go along with Trump, when Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky bickered with the president and with J.D. Vance in the Oval Office.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen two assholes and a beleaguered comedian argued like this since those cashiers tried to tell me I couldn't come into the Tesla diner every day just to take a shit.

Speaker 1 The bathroom code is 8297.

Speaker 1 Zelensky was back at the White House on Monday along with European leaders, and this time, Zelensky played it differently.

Speaker 1 For starters, he did wear a suit, which explains why the DC Spirit Halloween was out of men's small John Wicks.

Speaker 1 That's right. That one's at Zelensky's expense.
Surprise.

Speaker 1 Zelensky even joshed around with Marjorie Taylor Green's reporter boyfriend about the new look.

Speaker 1 First of all, Ms.

Speaker 3 President Zelensky, you look fabulous in that suit. I said the same thing.
Yeah, look, you look good. I said the same thing.

Speaker 4 I remember that.

Speaker 1 I apologize.

Speaker 1 Marjorie girl, I'm astonished to be saying this, but you can do better.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't just Zelensky's sartorial tactics that changed. He swallowed his pride when asked insulting questions like this one from Peter Ducey.

Speaker 1 President Zelensky, are you prepared to keep sending Ukrainian troops to their deaths for another couple years, or are you going to agree to redraw the maps?

Speaker 1 Like Putin's campaign of terror is some light redistricting. Thank God our children won't have history books to read because this is

Speaker 1 humiliating.

Speaker 1 Zelensky even laughed along when Trump used about using a war as an excuse to postpone American elections.

Speaker 4 So you say

Speaker 4 during the war you can't have elections.

Speaker 5 So let me just say three and a half years from now. So you mean if we happen to be in a war with somebody,

Speaker 5 no no more elections.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's good.

Speaker 1 How can we hold elections when America is dealing with a multi-front war on Christmas?

Speaker 1 It's not possible. Zelensky also brought Trump a gift, a putter that belonged to a Ukrainian soldier who lost his leg in the conflict.
Said the soldier, may it bring Trump the same luck it brought me.

Speaker 1 Zelensky and Macron even pretended to be interested when when Trump was showing off his little MAGA gift shop off the Oval Office, which includes a Trump 2028 hat.

Speaker 1 So much history in this space to think this is where President Franklin Delano Roosevelt sold his merch.

Speaker 1 Just a few days earlier, Trump literally rolled out the red carpet for Russian president and horse girl Vladimir Putin in Alaska.

Speaker 1 Trump gave Putin the prestige of a bilateral visit and allowed him to leave without taking a single question from journalists.

Speaker 1 Though I guess we'll start seeing clips from Putin's Rogan interview soon.

Speaker 1 But of course, Trump doesn't see the value of a tyrant like Putin facing tough questions.

Speaker 1 He also doesn't understand consent, algebra, that Melania was never actually attracted to him, or that people who leave the room continue to exist.

Speaker 1 So it's a long list. Even Trump, on some level, knows this about himself.

Speaker 4 I want to try and get to heaven if possible. I'm hearing I'm not doing well.
I hear you really at the bottom of the totem pole.

Speaker 1 First of all,

Speaker 1 hearing from who?

Speaker 1 Also, what would Trump's heaven even look like? A big golf course where everyone sucks up to him and calls him Mr. President? He already has that.
His heaven is our hell.

Speaker 1 But I get it. He wants to go to heaven because then he can finally be reunited with his friend, Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 1 And now European leaders have finally accepted what it takes to deal with Trump. And yeah, they look miserable, but that's just what Europeans look like when they have to work in August.

Speaker 1 We got them too.

Speaker 1 They've all finally learned that there's no equity and pride and honesty when it comes to Trump, that he isn't moved by arguments based on values and protecting allies and autocrats seeing more pain than reward and invading their neighbors because he's not interested in a free and democratic world.

Speaker 1 He's not interested in a free and democratic America. The only value he's interested in is meal.

Speaker 1 That was an insane amount of time before a genuine laugh.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen that one. That's new.
That was exciting.

Speaker 1 That's a new kind of silence for us. And we've got all kinds of silences during this show.

Speaker 1 Like this one. That's why Trump is putting troops on the streets of our capital.
And I'm glad those kids from Louisiana get to visit the Lincoln Memorial.

Speaker 1 It's a powerful monument, but they should have come on their own time.

Speaker 1 Trump claims he did it to make D.C. residents feel safe enough to go out to eat.

Speaker 3 The restaurants the last two days were busier than they've been in a long time.

Speaker 1 But that was a lie, if you can believe it.

Speaker 1 According to booking data from Open Table, reservations in the city have dropped by as much as 31% year over year, which was shocking because I thought Rezi was the app for criminals and aliens.

Speaker 1 Pete Hegseth and J.D. Vance visited the National Guard troops in DC's Union Station, where they were jeered by hecklers on their way to Shakeshack.

Speaker 1 That one's on Vance for going to Union Station, which has gorgeous heckling acoustics.

Speaker 1 Do you hear the heckler sing, singing a song of angry libs? It is the sofa of the people that will not be fucked again.

Speaker 1 J.D. Vance defended the D.C.
crackdown on Fox News Wednesday night.

Speaker 6 Your pal Gavin Newsom calls this an abuse of power, that this is just a power grab, and this is all stunt for show, and that you all are going to roll through other cities.

Speaker 6 You've heard things about, oh, it's martial laws going to be declared.

Speaker 6 And to that, you say?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 first of all, how is it a power grab or how is it a stunt when we've already declined murders by 35% in nine days?

Speaker 1 Continued Vance, I'm sorry, did I say murders? I mean restaurant reservations.

Speaker 1 I get those confused because waiters always seem like they want to murder me.

Speaker 1 But thanks for saying I have a pal.

Speaker 1 If you believe that sad from Vance, by the way, then please enjoy your family's next trip to the Smithsonian's latest exhibit, The President Who Ended Slavery, which wasn't so bad, The Story of Donald Trump.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, as they claim to care about crime in D.C., Washington's top prosecutor, Janine Pirot,

Speaker 1 said that her office would no longer seek felony charges against people caught carrying rifles or shotguns. But in Pirrow's defense, we all make bad decisions when we're drunk.

Speaker 1 Trump's crackdown also extends to D.C.'s cultural institutions like the Smithsonian, which he railed against on True Social, wrote Trump, the museums are essentially the last remaining segment of woke.

Speaker 1 The Smithsonian is out of control, where everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was, and how unaccomplished the downtrodden have been.

Speaker 1 Nothing about success, nothing about brightness, nothing about the future. Why does this history museum spend so much time talking about the fucking past?

Speaker 1 If you want a robot that does your hair and blowies,

Speaker 1 that's called fucking Ebcot, you dip shit.

Speaker 1 Not the blowies part.

Speaker 1 Trump wrote, I have instructed my attorneys to go through the museums and start the exact same process that has been done with colleges and universities where tremendous progress has been made.

Speaker 1 This country cannot be woke because woke is broke. Quick, Trump's lawyers are coming.
Cover up that Sojourner Choose statue with the Seinfeld puffy shirt. I already got rid of Frederick Douglass.

Speaker 1 He's in the Apollo 11 command module wearing Roberto Clemente's batting helmet. Can you tell that that's Sacagouea in Archie Bunker's chair? If she's wearing Lincoln's hat, we're fucked.

Speaker 1 We're so fucked. Fuck.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 The White House posted a piece of woke art they say must be removed from the Smithsonian, a painting of an immigrant family attempting to climb the southern border wall.

Speaker 1 The piece will be replaced by an AI-generated oil painting of a topless Sidney Sweeney assembling a ghost gun.

Speaker 1 Speaking of the border, here's Christy Noam painting the border wall black this week so it burns immigrants' hands if they try to climb it.

Speaker 7 And today, we are also going to be painting it black.

Speaker 7 That is specifically at the request of the president, who understands that in the hot temperatures down here, when something is painted black, it gets even warmer and it will make it even harder for people to climb.

Speaker 1 This will all be documented in a new novel called Tom Sawyer II, Oops All N-Words.

Speaker 1 Gnome's plan is evil and foolproof as long as no one invents gloves or night.

Speaker 1 Incredible. Incredible.
The Washington Post also reports that ICE plans to spend millions on custom ICE vehicles complete with the slogan, Defend the Homeland, and Donald Trump's name in gold.

Speaker 1 They even put out a hype video about it.

Speaker 1 They don't show it here, but when you honk the horn, it's just a recording of Trump's voice saying, honk.

Speaker 1 As Trump is deploying federal agents in D.C. and threatening other cities, he's also turned his attention back to rigging elections.

Speaker 1 On Thursday, Trump demanded the release of Tina Peters, an election denier and former Colorado county clerk, serving nine years in prison for election tampering. He's so short-sighted.

Speaker 1 Let go of the past. Start cultivating the next generation of election tamperers.

Speaker 1 Wrote Trump on Thursday, let Tina Peters out of jail right now. She did nothing wrong except catching the Democrats cheat in the election.
She is an old woman and very sick.

Speaker 1 If she is not released, I am going to take harsh measures. It's unclear what those harsh measures might be.
Peters was convicted in state court, so Trump can't pardon her at a federal level.

Speaker 1 Then again, he can't do all this other stuff he's doing and look at him go.

Speaker 1 Which brings us back around to our boy, Vladiput.

Speaker 1 Because he's long known what other leaders have only just accepted. You have to tell Trump exactly what he wants to hear.

Speaker 5 Vladimir Putin said something, one of the most interesting things.

Speaker 5 He said your election was rigged because you have mail-in voting. He said, mail-in voting every election.
He said, no country has mail-in voting.

Speaker 5 It's impossible to have mail-in voting and have honest elections. And he said that to me.
It was very interesting because we talked about 2020. He said, you won that election by so much.

Speaker 1 I wish Trump would pick a different way to emulate his hero. Can't he just ride a horse shirtless? It would be, it would be horrible to look at and they'd have to euthanize the horse, but

Speaker 1 then it would be over.

Speaker 1 In a report, PBS found that at least 34 countries allow mail-in voting after selling their printers to keep the Wi-Fi going.

Speaker 1 Point is, world leaders can't persuade Trump or shame him into doing what's right. They have to flatter him and stroke his ego.
In other words, this isn't about diplomacy, it's about flirting.

Speaker 1 And so we here at Love It or Leave It worked up a few pickup lines you can use on Donald Trump if you're trying to protect the global democratic order and happen upon a chance to meet him.

Speaker 1 Am I in the stairwell leading to Epstein's cell before he was found dead? Because I am seeing one hell of a fine orange shape.

Speaker 1 Am I your dead dead ex-wife? Because I'd like you to stand over me with your five wood.

Speaker 1 Did it hurt when you fell down that very gently sloping ramp?

Speaker 1 Is that a bunch of Epstein papers in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me holding this paper shredder?

Speaker 1 Your dad told me he was proud of you.

Speaker 1 Finally,

Speaker 1 speaking of feeling like we're at the bottom of the barrel, this week the restaurant chain Cracker Barrel changed their logo and MAGA World freaked out.

Speaker 1 And not for the right reason, which is that this new logo fucking sucks.

Speaker 1 They're claiming it's woke, the DEI killed the Cracker Barrel. Even Don Jr.
is pretending to be outraged as if a kid from Manhattan spent a lot of time in Cracker Barrels.

Speaker 1 But it's just boring. The new logo is just boring.
When I go to Cracker Barrel, I want to see a cracker and a barrel.

Speaker 1 It's just boring.

Speaker 1 It's not because America forgot to respect the great tradition and heritage of Cracker Barrel, a chain restaurant and gift shop concept that was developed by a Shell oil executive to sell more gasoline off the highway.

Speaker 1 This is part of a trend of brands not rebranding, but debranding, killing what made them interesting and unique in the service of being more flexible, broadly appealing, more legible online, especially on our phone screens.

Speaker 1 It's meant to make a logo work everywhere, but in doing so, in being persuaded by the logic of testing and readability, you lose something magical and special from when a brand gained traction and attention and trust in the first place, long before there was a massive marketing team and a $20,000 a month research firm telling you what works with Gen Z, a spirit that for now can't be replaced by consultants or captured by AI.

Speaker 1 And it reminds me of another brand that became so worried about appealing to everyone, it forgot how to appeal to anyone.

Speaker 1 That can't figure out why a perfectly calibrated message and inoffensive content that tests really well isn't persuading people. And of course, I'm I'm talking about McDonald's.

Speaker 1 Look at this dog shit interior. It used to be fucking fun.

Speaker 1 But mark my words: the end of minimalism is here. Hug your children close, for a new and terrifying maximalism is coming.

Speaker 1 Fascism plus AI, we are going to beg for beige and clean lines when this is through. The first horse of the apocalypse is this insane logo by Burberry.

Speaker 1 It's actually pretty cool.

Speaker 1 Coming up, it's a trap. Just kidding.
It's Tony Gilroy.

Speaker 8 Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

Speaker 1 Love It or Leave It brought to you by stamps.com. Every day could be hijacked by tedious tasks, leaving little time to focus on what you love and do best.

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Speaker 9 this podcast is presented by the netflix film a house of dynamite from academy award-winning director katherine bigelow starring idris elba and rebecca ferguson not only are critics raving about the film with deadline calling a house of dynamite exceptionally powerful and brilliantly directed but policymakers experts and scientists alike are weighing in proclaiming that the film is required viewing a powerful and thought-provoking movie and a movie of our time worth watching mulling and debating A House of Dynamite, now playing on Netflix for your awards' consideration.

Speaker 1 And we're back!

Speaker 1 Please welcome to the stage, the man behind Andor Michael Clayton, and as I just learned this week, the cutting edge. Love the cutting edge.

Speaker 1 Put your toe picks together for Hollywood legend, Tony Gilroy.

Speaker 1 Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 Juggle might be yours. Thank you, sir.

Speaker 1 Where Where do you want me? Right there.

Speaker 1 Hi. Hello.
So we met years ago. We did.
At a very strange dinner where I was sitting across from you and I was sitting next to Elon Musk years and years ago before.

Speaker 2 He was like the rocket guy or the guy at that point.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was just the rocket guy. And nobody, he seemed very uncomfortable and awkward.
And I remember trying to make conversation with him and I was like,

Speaker 1 how do you figure out how much fuel these rockets need? And then he kind of lit up and then he took a video and he showed me a video of a rocket landing upright, which he was very proud of.

Speaker 1 It was early for that.

Speaker 1 And I remember

Speaker 2 it was really cold. It was like a winter, it was that LA winter, and they wanted to eat outside because they'd set this whole table outside for this

Speaker 2 strange curated dinner.

Speaker 1 Dinner, yeah.

Speaker 2 And he, it was really cold. And he had his, like, he took his sweater off so he could be in his t-shirt.

Speaker 1 And I remember going all night long going, that guy is freezing.

Speaker 2 What is wrong with him? Anyway. Yeah, no,

Speaker 2 I wish I'd known

Speaker 2 then what I know now.

Speaker 1 But that's the thing about the past. I know.

Speaker 2 I know. So,

Speaker 1 and or

Speaker 1 not just one of the best

Speaker 1 parts of Star Wars, one of the best dramas of all time. Congratulations.
Incredible. I love it.

Speaker 1 I wanted to ask you a question that's been on my mind. I think a lot of fans' minds.
And or what?

Speaker 2 Because if.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the second season of Andor brings us up to Rogue One, which you co-wrote as well as you were part of the reshoots, right?

Speaker 1 Is that a discussion?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't like to, yes, that's accurate, yes. I don't go any farther than that.

Speaker 1 And good to know.

Speaker 1 But what you said about it in the past is that you'd never been interested in Star Wars and that you had no reverence for it. As a child of the 80s,

Speaker 1 how did you avoid knowing about Star Wars?

Speaker 2 I knew about it. I saw the first one in 77.
I just wasn't

Speaker 2 getting on the bus.

Speaker 2 I would see them when they came by, but I wasn't yearning for it.

Speaker 1 Wow. You must have had friends.

Speaker 1 Were you good at that? I could have a life. Could you dribble? That's so cool.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you modestly say that you came into Rogue One, which was your first, which led to Andor, and

Speaker 1 you were able to improve the position of something that wasn't working.

Speaker 1 But I believe you did something much more amazing than that, which is you turned Rogue One into one of the great Star Wars films. And I'm curious, applaud that.

Speaker 1 And I'm curious what not caring about Star Wars let you do that a lot of other people who do care about Star Wars seem unable to do.

Speaker 2 It's actually a more fundamental question because I've worked on a lot of movies. I've done a lot of script doctoring as a, you know, as a side hustle.

Speaker 2 It's a great side hustle and it's the, you know, it's, it's the great perk of screenwriting, weekly work to fix things.

Speaker 2 You don't want your surgeon to give a shit about whether you're going to make

Speaker 2 your next promotion or carpool. You want your surgeon to really just pay attention to what's on the table.
And so there's a real benefit in fixing things to not

Speaker 2 to not care,

Speaker 2 really. And so my experience on Rogue One is very different than Andor.
I mean, I came in there

Speaker 1 to repair a problem.

Speaker 2 On Andor, I was completely invested. I mean, I'm all in on that.
That's my thing. So the other thing is very mechanical in a way.

Speaker 2 Everyone's going to die in the end, and if it's not working, well, there's got to be a solution. Yeah, because

Speaker 2 it's kind of cool, actually. Everyone's going to die in the end.

Speaker 2 That makes life easy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Not Not many movies do that, and you kind of go, okay, well, then how are we going to get them out of this movie? Well, no, it's really very simple. Then the movie gets very pure.

Speaker 2 You want to care about all the people in there enough so that it matters when they die. That's all you really have to do.

Speaker 1 Really? And maybe life as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's maybe the secret, because we're all going to die in this movie, too.

Speaker 1 In a sense. I don't know how spiritual you are.
So

Speaker 1 Rogue One is released in December 2016. Andor's first season comes just after Trump leaves office.
This final season comes during his encore.

Speaker 1 I remember seeing Rogue One and feeling moved and inspired by how it felt like it was speaking to the moment.

Speaker 1 What if someone had told you then that those were the good old days? Oh, man.

Speaker 2 Oh, man, I'll be really sad.

Speaker 2 We were mixing Rogue. up at Skywalker the night of the election.
And

Speaker 2 man, we turned the TV off and then I had to, I actually had to do like a whole,

Speaker 2 you know, make a speech to all the people in the mixing stage, like, okay, we're going to, no one's going to watch the news for the next three days. We're not going to pay any attention to anything.

Speaker 2 We got to get through what we got to get through. Three days from now, we can all, when we're done, you can pay attention.
But if we turn around and look down right now, we're going to kill ourselves.

Speaker 2 And then when the movie came out, I'd never been to the White House. I'd never been invited to the White House.
I've never met any presidents or anything. We got invited.
It was the saddest thing.

Speaker 2 We went to the White House for Rogue One at the last of, and you know how this is, they throw many Christmas parties, like 50 Christmas parties. We were at the last Christmas party where

Speaker 2 Obama and Michelle, that family got on the military helicopter at the end of the party and went off to go to Hawaii. And it was, man, that was some sad shit.
I mean, it was the end of days there.

Speaker 2 So it was a very, it was very traumatic. I was like, wow, this is, this is the, this is so cool to be here and incredibly sad to be here at at this moment.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 1 Andor,

Speaker 1 it feels so perfect for this time. And I was,

Speaker 1 there have been many moments where I've been so moved by it. And there's many three lines in it, but there's one about that I found inspiring in it.

Speaker 1 And this came at the end of season one. And I'm taking a piece of it, but it's freedom is a pure idea.
It occurs spontaneously and without instruction.

Speaker 1 The imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort.
It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle.
Oppression is the mask of fear.

Speaker 1 And I found it so moving in part because we spent a lot of time talking about the threat of authoritarianism, but because we're in it.

Speaker 1 But we spent a lot less time talking about why it fails and falls apart. What makes it weak and what makes freedom strong.

Speaker 1 And I'm curious, especially hearing that about sort of what your experiencing was just at the making Rogue One and going into Andor,

Speaker 2 what drew you to

Speaker 1 how to talk about that? And was it important to you that it inspire people who are genuinely worried about it in the real world? Or is that just a happy accident?

Speaker 2 No, I mean,

Speaker 2 they offered me the chance to do this show. It's a five-year tranche of history that happens to be extremely potent.
It's the rise of, I'm going to use the word fascism.

Speaker 2 I know it's a 20th century word, but

Speaker 2 you could certainly retrofit it back through 4,000 years of history.

Speaker 2 It's about fascism, authoritarianism, closing its fists, and what happens to regular people when history comes knocking on your door. And I've been a

Speaker 2 stupid amateur dinner table historian forever. And I've been reading about revolutions my whole life.
And I was like, wow, this is a really incredible piece of material to work on.

Speaker 2 I wanted to make sure that I could get in all of the things that I had learned along the way, the whole fascist karaoke playbook and as many of the attributes and

Speaker 2 aspects that make somebody revolution, that rise somebody's consciousness and lead to rebellion. So I had this really, I felt a responsibility to the topic in general.
I have my natural anger.

Speaker 2 You know, I have my things I believe.

Speaker 2 We weren't writing it out of the, we weren't writing it. You don't have to write the show out of the headlines to get where I got.

Speaker 2 You know, we have been particularly shaken by the proximity of what we did as things started happening. We posited over the summer, wow, what's going to happen if the election goes either way?

Speaker 2 I mean, imagine the show if it goes the other way. Well, would it be as potent? People would say, Matt, he's a really great show.
Would it mean the same thing?

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 2 you know, we've had the unique experience. I mean, I'm going to do the immigration thing.
I'm going to,

Speaker 2 all the things that we do in the show. But like when they drag Padilla out of the ICE office the week we're releasing the Gorman senator being ripped out of the

Speaker 2 Senate, we're like, who's watching the show? Is Stephen Miller like watching the show or what the fuck? I mean, like, like, who's who's responsible for the synchronicity of this? Us or them?

Speaker 1 We're not spending enough time with the heroes in that bureaucratic chamber.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? I mean, it's like

Speaker 2 a lot of these things are natural and reoccurring. The fact that it's happening now is terrifying and sad, really.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's another part of, I think, Star Wars that you handle so differently than it's been handled in the past, which is the way you use the force.

Speaker 1 There's a line from the Bible, deal with it, you

Speaker 1 godless audience, which is faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Speaker 1 And it was on my mind, really was when watching Andor, in Star Wars Classic, Jedis lift objects, they glamour people.

Speaker 1 You're right up next to the magic. But in Rogue One and then in Andorr, the force is something else.
And I'm wondering if it was because you are someone, you know, there's not a lot of

Speaker 1 magic in Michael Clayton, you know, that you're a

Speaker 1 rogue devil's advocate. A lot of magic in devil's advocate.
That's true. You're right.
I felt that coming. But

Speaker 2 cutting edge is some, has some pixie dust. No, sorry.

Speaker 1 No, that's just, that's just homosexuality.

Speaker 1 You know that drag queens aren't Jedis. They're just people.
They don't have any powers. They're magical.

Speaker 2 I needed to hear that.

Speaker 1 No, but I'm curious what you wanted to do with the force in Andor.

Speaker 2 I was really,

Speaker 2 if you'd asked me when I first started, I probably said, we're never going to do that.

Speaker 2 You know, we're never going to do it.

Speaker 2 I've been on the show for five years. It's just this massive maximal experience.
And I'm surrounded by all these people who are really into it. And

Speaker 2 it did seem like if I could find a way to make it work for me and

Speaker 2 touch them, that would be great. There's like a curia,

Speaker 2 you have to think of Star Wars and Lucasfilm sort of like the Vatican. It really is.
It's like, and there's a curia in San Francisco, and there's a people who are the keepers of all the information.

Speaker 2 And so you call out there and there's Pablo, you know, Pablo Hudago. And I said, Pablo, how many people in the galaxy really know about the force?

Speaker 2 Like in this world, very few people have ever seen it. It was like, no one's ever seen a jedi and um

Speaker 2 and i was like can i

Speaker 2 can i play with that and uh it permission granted and i found a way um

Speaker 2 there was i'll tell you my source for it remember ghost yeah okay whoopie goldberg and ghost i love the scene where she's like a psychic and he comes and she's a psychic who's squandered all her her her actual psychic power over the years and then all of a sudden it's activated by by by by by patrick swayzee being in the in her room I love that scene.

Speaker 2 I love that idea. And I was like,

Speaker 2 that's kind of a cool way to go. And what if there's a woman who's working in the commissary who's sort of half lost her, I played it from her point of view.

Speaker 2 The scene is much more important for me from the Force Healers point of view than it is from their point of view, at least in my way in.

Speaker 2 She says thank you to them, you know?

Speaker 1 So that was my way in.

Speaker 1 Well, it's just interesting you talk about it because it comes through in the show, which is that these people pop up and they're feel fully fledged and they have a point of view.

Speaker 1 And you do that on both sides.

Speaker 1 There's a scene where there's a stormtrooper, I don't know exactly his rank,

Speaker 1 but he's not as bad as the other one. The other one's a monster and attacking someone.
This stormtrooper is just out guarding and doesn't know what to do. He's an underling.

Speaker 1 And you meet him and he's conflicted and he's worried. And then you just fucking kill him.
You just blow him up from afar. He gets blown up from afar.
Spoiler alert.

Speaker 1 That's a mid-episode, mid-season and/or season two spoiler.

Speaker 1 But there's something about that that you're you're rounding out this world where the that

Speaker 2 That the motivations of a of a better person on the wrong side don't matter to the to the good guys fighting from afar That's just somebody that has to be stopped you just look if you're writing really really well and all the things you I mean the writer has to live through every single one every single person who gets any screen time has to be fully realized and you gotta what's their point of view?

Speaker 2 Why are they here? How'd they get here? It's it's just um

Speaker 2 I guess I've learned over time that's the key to marching forward,

Speaker 2 you know, empathy with every single person that you're writing about. And it's just, it makes it a lot more engaging to do the work and it makes it a lot more,

Speaker 2 it makes actors want to, we had 400 speaking parts in the show between the two seasons. And like, we had maybe three people who bombed out on us.

Speaker 2 I mean, out of 400 people, everybody came in and they just like poured their ass into it and they just were there.

Speaker 2 And like, I think the key is that you live through every single, there's no small characters. That sounds like this, it's like a t-shirt or some shit, but it's really true.
There's everybody's,

Speaker 2 everybody's got a backstory. Everybody's there for a reason.

Speaker 1 So you worked with your brothers on this? And

Speaker 1 your brother Dan is a writer, your brother John is an editor. You've worked with them in the past.

Speaker 1 When you're growing up, you're older, they're twins, right? Did you bully them? Did you, did you?

Speaker 2 I tried. Yeah, I did.
No, I did.

Speaker 2 I carried them a lot. It's good they're not here tonight, but I can say a lot of things that should be said that when they're here, it's hard to say.
But yeah, no, I carried this shadow.

Speaker 2 Dragging the draught behind them. No, they no, they're only, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're in your shadow for sure. Totally.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's hurt for, it hurts for them to hear.

Speaker 2 They want to say that. They want to, they feel that.

Speaker 1 Well, it must be a hard thing to hear because it's true and they know it. Right? Thank you.
So it sucks. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 For them.

Speaker 1 All right. A couple last, a couple, couple quick questions to let you for.

Speaker 1 So you're working on another film now called Behemoth?

Speaker 2 Yes, with an exclamation point.

Speaker 1 With an exclamation point. Behemoth.

Speaker 1 Pedro Pascal is in it.

Speaker 1 He was spotted leaving the gym carrying a cello.

Speaker 1 And is that something?

Speaker 2 He's a cellist in the film.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 That's not an explanation.

Speaker 2 I want him to, he's practicing the cello very diligently. And plus, we want him to carry the cello anywhere he can because you want him.

Speaker 2 We did a movie when we did Devil's Advocate. When Keanu first came in, I remember we were like, we're like, he's going to be a lawyer?

Speaker 1 Like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 And I remember Taylor Hackford said, you got to put a suit. It was like three months out.
Put a suit on now and you are never fucking taking that suit off until we start shooting.

Speaker 2 Because he looked so weird in a suit. Three months later, he had worn a suit everywhere he ever went.
And he like, it worked.

Speaker 2 And like, carrying the cello case will turn you into a cellist if you do it long enough.

Speaker 1 Tony fucking Gilroy, you hear that?

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Last question.

Speaker 1 We started there, we'll end there. The cutting edge,

Speaker 1 it is an outlier because, you know, yes, Devil's Advocate has magic in it, but I think of, you know, when I just look at the

Speaker 1 Michael Clayton, Dolores Claiborne, Duplicity, Bourne films. The cutting edge does stand out a bit.
Did the original script have D.B. Sweeney killing a person and then burying the body or something?

Speaker 2 I was really desperate to get a movie made.

Speaker 2 And a guy came to me and said, hey, you wrote this other movie and it's bickering. It was a real 80s bickering thing.
I'm not going to make that movie.

Speaker 2 But this guy was, he was such a great marketing guy. He said, every seven years there has to be a figure scanning movie and we're due.

Speaker 2 And if you can give me, if you can give me Taming of the Shrew on ice,

Speaker 2 I will make the movie. And I was like, and he was a guy who could really make movies, Robert Cord.
He was, it was Interscope.

Speaker 2 And he like, I was like, all right. And he, everybody held true to their word.
I tried so hard not to get fired from that show and he delivered. And yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 man, you know what? Of all the, that is a residual that never fails.

Speaker 1 Hell yeah. Hell yeah.
Well, everybody, Andorra's streaming now in Disney Plus. Thank you so much, Tony Gilroy.
That was so fun. He'll be back at the end.
But thank you so much. So great.
So great.

Speaker 1 Tony Gilroy, come on.

Speaker 1 Up next, it's Adam Scott and Patricia Arquette.

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Speaker 1 And we're back.

Speaker 1 My next guest tied for Lumen Industries Employee of the Year, two years running. Please put your hands together for Adam Scott and Patricia Arquette.

Speaker 1 Come on in.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much. This is so beautiful.
Look at this. What a beautiful dress.
Patricia. Adam, so good to see you.
Thanks for being here.

Speaker 12 Your house is a mess.

Speaker 1 It is. It's how it goes.
It's how it goes.

Speaker 1 Welcome to you both. Thank you.
Thank you for being here. Now, Adam, I mentioned this backstage.
You were last on this show in my backyard in January of 2022.

Speaker 1 That was a month before Severance premiered.

Speaker 1 I remember just feeling like, I'm sorry, this show is incomprehensible to someone who hasn't seen it. Yeah.
It must be nice talking about it.

Speaker 10 I was trying to explain it to you.

Speaker 10 And it was hard to explain, but also

Speaker 10 there, particularly three years ago, there were like nine shows premiering every week. Like there's a lot of TV now, but there was a lot more three years ago.

Speaker 10 So another person coming on saying, I'm on a new Apple show about this, it was probably, and it being confusing, it probably was a bad combo.

Speaker 1 I felt guilty because it's like,

Speaker 1 I didn't do enough to seem hyped about it.

Speaker 10 Well, you hadn't seen any of it.

Speaker 1 I hadn't seen it yet. Patricia Arquette.
Hello.

Speaker 1 Amazing as Kobel.

Speaker 1 I love

Speaker 1 the manner of her voice in the show. And I'm curious what inspires that accent.
It has a little mid-Atlantic to it, but also

Speaker 1 submarine captain. That doesn't make sense.

Speaker 12 Okay, you're close.

Speaker 12 You know, this year we got to see where Kobel came from, and it was very humble beginnings, and it was this very harsh environment. And she grew up in this school, and she had this very harsh aunt.

Speaker 12 So, really, she is self-created.

Speaker 12 She wanted to sound the way that people in positions of power sounded. So, yes, it was

Speaker 12 inspired by Mid-Atlantic, but also Maude.

Speaker 1 Maude.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 12 I got the whole DVD set before I started.

Speaker 1 That totally makes sense.

Speaker 12 There's a touch of B. Arthur.

Speaker 1 There is just the

Speaker 12 slightest little spice of B.

Speaker 1 And B. Arthur does have a touch of submarine captain.
Exactly. So here we are.
Now, other than Mel Gibson, who's been on a bunch, we believe you're our first Oscar winner to be on the show.

Speaker 1 Did you know that Oscar-winning performers live on average almost four years longer than their fellow nominees. That's real.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Yes, they genuinely live. They're

Speaker 1 not. No, this is a real study.
This is

Speaker 1 a real study that found the actual details are that Oscar winners live longer than nominees and a cohort of actors who weren't nominated because being nominated doesn't increase your life.

Speaker 1 You just live like a normal actor. Right, right.

Speaker 1 So, do you know what you're going to say at Ethan Hawk's funeral? Oh!

Speaker 12 Oh my God, I don't, you know, the way things are going right now, no one's dying

Speaker 12 as much as we want to

Speaker 12 daily.

Speaker 12 No, we're staying alive forever.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Adam, your reaction was correct. Adam Scott,

Speaker 1 you said as an actor, this was to CBS News: as an actor, it's something you wait for your entire career. But when it happened, I was immediately terrified and didn't quite know why.

Speaker 1 I guess I was afraid that it was just going to end up being embarrassing and people were going to make fun of us and make fun of me. What has it been like to have your worst fears realized?

Speaker 10 Well, now it feels great.

Speaker 10 But

Speaker 10 yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 10 I think,

Speaker 10 you know,

Speaker 10 you wish and hope for something and then and then it's there. And

Speaker 10 when it's a blank canvas, it's way harder than, you know, when you watch something and you're like, oh, they should have done this or that.

Speaker 10 That's because a thing was created and you're able to watch it and make,

Speaker 10 you know, be able to form what different calls you would have made. But when it's a blank canvas in front of you, like nothing, and you need to figure it all out, it's, it's a lot harder.

Speaker 10 So I think I was scared by that kind of sheer face of slippery, wet rock that I had to climb up somehow.

Speaker 1 And then, and you did.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 12 Which makes Spider-Man.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 Patricia, you were in a documentary documentary directed by your sister, Rosanna, called Searching for Deborah Winger. Yeah, Rosanna.
That was so good. Did you find her?

Speaker 12 Actually, I did. Recently, I texted Deborah Winger

Speaker 12 to ask her to donate an item to the ACLU auction.

Speaker 12 And she is.

Speaker 1 Now, that's a jokey question for me.

Speaker 1 Sorry. No, no, no, no, no.
I'm apologizing for asking you jokey questions. But the reason I was asking, because it was a documentary about why Deborah Winger had stepped away from acting.

Speaker 1 And part of what the movie was about was

Speaker 1 what it's like for women in Hollywood to find roles that match their talents. And I was looking at your

Speaker 1 filmography and

Speaker 1 television work. And I realized that you have been in a movie or television show.
every single year since 1987, except for 2004 and the two years of the pandemic into severance. He must be exhausted.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 10 That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 That's amazing.

Speaker 12 Yeah, well, I, you know, I grew up, I'm a fourth-generation actor, so I grew up in a home where my dad really worked really hard to try to provide for seven people as a working actor.

Speaker 12 He'd get a commercial and then like a bunch of auditions and then maybe a callback and then no auditions. And there was a lot of pressure and anxiety, you know, to try to make a living.

Speaker 12 And I saw how difficult that was. And then I was a single mom at 20.

Speaker 12 So I couldn't even buy a beer, but I was like, I have to buy fucking diapers.

Speaker 12 So I need to make some money.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like that you've as the industry has like evolved over those years,

Speaker 1 have you felt it change and like the aperture of roles available for women who remember the Challenger explosion changing?

Speaker 12 Well, yeah, I mean, I have to say that I think the expansion of streaming services and there was a bit of a history, like Cagney and Lacey, I Love Lucy, there were women in TV in bigger parts, less than movies in a way.

Speaker 1 Kate and Alley.

Speaker 12 Thank you. How could I forget?

Speaker 12 And then Maud, for instance.

Speaker 1 And Maud. Yeah.
Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.

Speaker 12 Anyway, so

Speaker 1 I'm falling out of this. There were female roles.

Speaker 12 I think that for me, I mean,

Speaker 12 there was a period where you're the Anjinu, you're young. I started off young, and I was the girlfriend, and the girl I want to make love to, or whatever.
And then I became the mom.

Speaker 12 Luckily, in that moment where I was starting to be perceived as the mom type,

Speaker 12 I got medium.

Speaker 12 And that was a lead, and it was an interesting part. I got to explore motherhood also in a more interesting way.
But when it became the 40-period-ish, the this Deborah Winger age, I won an Oscar,

Speaker 12 so it helped my career. There were more opportunities for women because of streamers, but also I was in a particularly good position just because of that.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 winning an Oscar is a great thing to do.

Speaker 12 I really lucked out.

Speaker 1 Thank you, God. Thank you, God.

Speaker 1 Adam, you were on Amy Poehler's podcast last week, and you said that you almost quit acting because you didn't get six feet under.

Speaker 1 Have you just been going through it this whole time?

Speaker 1 From the outside, you're crushing it.

Speaker 2 Wait, you mean like...

Speaker 1 Like, were you like, you were ready to get out? How many times have you been ready to give up? How anxious have you been this whole time?

Speaker 1 You, you, you get severance, you're terrified, you don't get six feet under, you almost quit the business.

Speaker 10 Right, it's almost as if nothing will make me happy.

Speaker 12 Yeah, you've got two women, you got Helie,

Speaker 1 Gemma, Gemma.

Speaker 10 What does one do?

Speaker 10 Um, I

Speaker 10 was,

Speaker 10 yeah, that was like the nadir, right? It was like I was in this work desert where I hadn't worked in a long time.

Speaker 10 And then little did I know after that moment of losing out on six feet under, I wasn't going to work for a while after. And so I was just like, what am I doing?

Speaker 10 And my wife, I remember I was on our couch like wondering. By the way, it was.
all for the better because I was not ready for that role. And Michael C.

Speaker 1 Hall is incredible.

Speaker 10 And oh my God, he made that show.

Speaker 10 He's one of the things that made that show so great.

Speaker 1 Just to say that.

Speaker 10 It was by far the right choice. But I remember sitting on the couch, kind of figuring out what I was going to do, and my wife saying,

Speaker 10 Do you think there's something else that you might want to do?

Speaker 10 Not knowing that that's not the thing you say to an actor. And she saw, she she still says the

Speaker 10 look on my face told her that that was not something I'd ever considered.

Speaker 10 But I had to start considering it, you know?

Speaker 1 And now here we are and you're in, you're both in one of the greatest television shows ever made. It's extraordinary.
It's an amazing thank you.

Speaker 1 And I feel very, like I was feeling, thinking about this for the show that

Speaker 1 tonight, it like, you know, Hollywood is always changing, it's always evolving, and everyone's saying that its best days are always behind it.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden you're like, wait a second, this is a moment where some of the best television that's ever been made that changed the way television works. And part of that is that

Speaker 1 it's an incredibly talented cast. The writing is amazing.
It's also led by Ben Stiller, who turns out to be one of the greatest directors in television, along with Tony Gilroy's here. And

Speaker 1 you've been friends with Ben Stiller for a long time. And he directed Reality Bites, but he was known as a comedic actor for a long time, I think, to people.
And yet this show is clearly meticulous.

Speaker 1 And the vision is so

Speaker 1 rich and deep. And you feel it in just the editing and the shots that this is a

Speaker 1 shooting. This must be just a serious enterprise.
Do you ever feel like you want to make fun of him on set? Because he's been your friend for a long time.

Speaker 1 And now he's helming this incredibly serious thing.

Speaker 10 I mean, yeah,

Speaker 10 we do.

Speaker 10 I mean,

Speaker 10 I coined his alter ego on set, Bendo, which is the on-set photographer who's always getting in people's eyelines. Because he does.

Speaker 10 He has a film camera and he takes photos and he kind of prances around with his film camera as if he is an on-set photographer. And it's like, what are you doing?

Speaker 10 Wait, wait, why is he doing? Because you know what? The photos are beautiful. They really are.
But Bendo takes them, not Ben.

Speaker 1 Now, you were, Patricia, you starred with Ben Stiller in Flirting with Disaster

Speaker 1 with David O. Russell, and you were telling me backstage that the only director you've ever worked with who is more of a prick than David O.
Russell is Ben Stiller.

Speaker 1 That's what you said, right? Lies.

Speaker 12 Lies. And this is how careers are destroyed.
No.

Speaker 12 No. Yeah, we worked together on Flirting with Disaster.

Speaker 12 And before tough days and stuff, I would start singing Jesus Christ Superstar to Ben before we'd go like, he'd be cranky, something would be wrong. It was super hot in the desert.

Speaker 12 Christ, you know I love you. And he'd start singing along.
And then they'd roll and we'd go.

Speaker 12 And then he directed me in Escape at Denomora, which was also so precise and had such a different tone than this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and another, also like just beautiful direction. And like really sort of, I think does like lay the, say, oh, that's where, you know, this is somebody working towards something pretty amazing.

Speaker 12 Yeah, and really, honestly, I really struggled with the tone of this show, the first season, the beginning. Like, are we doing a comedy? Is this a sci-fi soap opera? What exactly are we doing?

Speaker 12 So we experimented a bit, but also Ben

Speaker 12 was finding it, but also really had that kind of precision.

Speaker 12 And luckily, he cut together a few minutes to show me. This is kind of the feeling I'm going for.

Speaker 1 Is it chat, like, it's such a strange, must be such a strange demand on you as both of you, as performers, whether you're acting with someone who's playing two people or playing, in a sense, two people.

Speaker 1 Does it ever get confusing as you're making the show? Is there like a script coordinator who's like, ah, you're innovative. You didn't know that.
You put that down. You don't have that.

Speaker 1 You don't know what that is.

Speaker 12 It was so fun to watch him.

Speaker 12 do his work, you know, because I get to be Zelvig outside and then Kobel inside to see this like innocent mark that you brought in and worked on and then the outside mark, the more world-wear mark.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I don't know about confusing, but it was definitely, you know, sometimes we shoot

Speaker 10 a bunch of episodes at a time, like the block shoot. The first season, we shot the whole season

Speaker 10 at once. So, like, in month nine, we were still shooting stuff from the first episode.

Speaker 10 But it's just like, you know, sometimes in the morning we're doing any stuff and in the afternoon we're doing outie stuff. But I will say that that's a t-shirt.

Speaker 10 Any stuff in the morning, outie stuff at night. You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 Any in the front, outie in the back. That's right.

Speaker 10 That's right.

Speaker 12 You could swing that way, too.

Speaker 10 But getting to work with Patricia really was instructive because when we started, like she said, we were kind of like figuring out this tone. And Ben was kind of like, maybe that, maybe not that.

Speaker 10 And we were finding it, but being able to get in in these scenes, dig into these scenes with Patricia, who is wholly unafraid to just walk in there and experiment and do stuff that may not work at all, do stuff that may work 20%, do stuff that works 120%.

Speaker 10 Just let's try it all. And then we'll, that's how we'll find it.
And that is how we found it. And

Speaker 10 it was just extraordinary to be there to watch watch it but then also to participate in it and and it helped me figure out this tone as well and also figure out my character because this is the person who was like the sun and the moon for for my character you know

Speaker 1 i remember

Speaker 12 some guy had told me some story before i don't remember who told me that's terrible but he said he was rehearsing a play with this guy and this guy every rehearsal would be totally different one one he'd be climbing on the chairs, like rolling on the ground, being super weird, singing it.

Speaker 12 The guy was like, How am I supposed to get ready for this to go up in front of an audience? Like, I don't feel like I can really connect with this guy. He's all over the place.

Speaker 12 And I hope he's not going to do this crying like a cat, running around on the ground. What, you know, on opening night? But opening night came, and he's like,

Speaker 12 the guy was amazing and free.

Speaker 12 And I was like the one one who was like, oh my God, what am I doing? And I realized I was envious of that, like exploring.

Speaker 1 Acting seems hard.

Speaker 1 And then you don't know if it's going to be good or not. You're just doing it in a room with a bunch of people.
Then eight months later, you find out that's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Yeah, you don't know if it's going to, people are going to think it's terrible or love it.

Speaker 2 You have no idea.

Speaker 1 Patricia, I wanted to ask you about this. And

Speaker 1 so your sister Alexis, who passed away, was trans, and you've spoken very movingly about

Speaker 1 that you and your family had to learn about it, to understand it, to come to accept it, that it wasn't obvious at first, that didn't make sense at first. And

Speaker 1 I thought that was interesting because I do think that you were doing that before the country did in a lot of ways. And now we are doing that or not doing that, depending.

Speaker 1 And I'm curious, like,

Speaker 1 because I think sometimes the conversation in places where there's more acceptance got ahead of places where they just hadn't had the conversation yet.

Speaker 1 And I'm curious what you felt like you had to learn or what changed for you that made acceptance possible.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I think when you look at people and their behavior throughout your life or even your own, you have to think of the milieu of the world around you. What was the politics at the time?

Speaker 12 What was the norm at the time? And all of that. You know, when Alexis was always androgynous, like boy George came out and that was a great way for her to be wearing makeup and dancing around.

Speaker 12 And we were always going to gay clubs together and we were always hanging out. But at the same time, there was this

Speaker 12 brutal locomotive pushing forward with... Jerry Falwell saying gay people were going to hell and that AIDS was a curse and it was curse for behavior and all this.

Speaker 12 And I'd seen in the punk rock scene, you know, drinking outside with friends, some gay guys getting bashed. I'd seen all kinds of stuff in Hollywood.
So

Speaker 12 when that transition happened,

Speaker 12 I was

Speaker 12 worried for Alexis. I was like, this is a really brutal world.
People are really judgmental and scary. And I'm scared you're going to get hurt.
was one thing.

Speaker 12 The other thing was Alexis was an incredible actor. She had done Last Exit to Brooklyn.
It's an incredible performance. I really,

Speaker 12 I really hope everyone gets to see that performance. And then so many of her performances and just doing improvs with her was like a joy.
Like she blew my mind.

Speaker 12 And I knew, like, wait, if you come out as trans, will they ever hire you as someone's boyfriend in a movie? They're so strict. Like, they don't, they're not open.

Speaker 12 Like, so we had lots of talks about that. Like,

Speaker 1 okay, so what if you didn't get work as an actor? I mean,

Speaker 12 and she was like, I know, I mean, I know, I think that's going to happen.

Speaker 12 And so that was just really heartbreaking. And it still is really heartbreaking to me that, you know,

Speaker 12 so when you see someone living their truth, even if it's right,

Speaker 12 you love them so much. And you have to be real about the world

Speaker 12 they're walking into, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do think it speaks to something about

Speaker 1 people being able to kind of learn and grow. And you had that experience of getting to have it in your life.
And a lot of people don't. And I think it's important for people to hear about it.

Speaker 1 So thank you for sharing.

Speaker 12 I do too. I mean, here's the thing people don't talk about is

Speaker 12 the family goes through a transition.

Speaker 12 You know, you do have a period, and maybe not anymore because the world has changed, but you have a period where it's like, wait a minute, I don't want to say goodbye to my brother.

Speaker 12 You know, we trick-or-treated together. Remember, we did school together? All these little things.

Speaker 12 When you stood up and fought those boys who were, you know, trying to perv out on me, like, I love that person. Do you love that person? Yeah.
You know, I want to make sure that you love yourself.

Speaker 12 And that's not why any of this is happening. So very deep conversations.
But

Speaker 12 then, I remember my sister saying, no, you're not losing your brother.

Speaker 12 You know, she's like a butterfly like you're just and and then by then we'd had a lot of our deaths or our parents so it was like i don't care i trust you you tell me who you are you tell me what you feel inside i believe you i don't want to lose anybody else in my life that i love or judge them or push them away or not embrace them I don't understand what it feels like to be trans, but I trust you.

Speaker 1 That's beautiful. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Let's leave it there for now.

Speaker 1 Congratulations on the show. I do think

Speaker 1 to get to be part of such an amazing, beautiful, special thing. I just can't, congratulations on being part of it.
And when we come back, we're going to ask some much smaller questions.

Speaker 8 Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

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Speaker 1 And we're back.

Speaker 1 Please welcome back to the stage. It's Tony Gilroy.

Speaker 1 Hey.

Speaker 1 Here we have that. Oh, hello.
Oh, hello. How do you do?

Speaker 1 Yes, yes. Welcome back.
Welcome back. Hi, okay.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 12 I asked what color chair I'd be sitting in.

Speaker 12 Kobel Blue?

Speaker 1 Now it's time for a segment we call, there's no small talk, only small hosts. That sucks.
All right.

Speaker 1 Here's how it works. We have.

Speaker 1 Are you dreading this?

Speaker 1 this is not dreading this. There's nothing to dread.
There's nothing to dread, I don't think. So we have this egg

Speaker 1 because we needed something.

Speaker 1 Here's how it works. This is an egg, and it has small talk questions in it.
And everybody's going to take one and just answer a question. Or you can pass it on.
Somebody else can grab it.

Speaker 1 There's no rules. You don't have to do anything.

Speaker 10 Do we get to touch the egg?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll pass the egg along.

Speaker 2 We don't want to touch the egg.

Speaker 1 We don't have to. You don't have to touch the egg.

Speaker 10 I would like to touch the egg.

Speaker 1 Why don't I?

Speaker 1 Patricia, you want to kick us off? Sure. You want to read it?

Speaker 12 I was wondering if I was going to pass it to him and make him do it, but okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, me.

Speaker 12 Do you have a shoes on household or a shoes off?

Speaker 10 Are you asking me? Or are you asking?

Speaker 1 We didn't really work on the rules.

Speaker 1 You can answer it, or you can ask Adam Scott. I'm asking you.

Speaker 10 Shoes Shoes on or whatever you want.

Speaker 1 That tracks, that tracks. Yeah, that tracks.
I like it. Are you shoes on or shoes off at home?

Speaker 12 Whatever you feel like.

Speaker 1 That's cool. Tony Gilroy? Shoes on.
Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 Like you, like, keep on. You've got to put them on when you come in.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Shoes are waiting there for you to put on.
All right. Adam, here's the egg.

Speaker 1 This is fun. It's working.
Really?

Speaker 10 Is this the first time you've done this game?

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah. Oh, God.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 10 What's a movie roundly considered terrible that you will defend with your life?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 10 I have a bunch of these.

Speaker 10 Like, defend, like, I think it's legitimately good.

Speaker 10 Not like I just love because it's bad.

Speaker 1 I think you can love it as camp, or you can think it's legitimately good. There's no rules in the egg.
The egg is just whatever feels good.

Speaker 10 No, I'm starting to get that.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 10 This is not the most creative choice because it's my favorite movie, but a lot of people talk shit about Temple of Doom.

Speaker 1 And I love Temple of Doom

Speaker 10 so much.

Speaker 10 So much so that when we were shooting the finale of season two, I kept telling Ben, this is our Temple of Doom.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 It is a t-shirt.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 10 It doesn't stop.

Speaker 10 It just keeps getting crazier and bigger

Speaker 10 and just grows and grows and grows and has a big finish.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And there's that part where you reach inside of

Speaker 10 someone's chest and pull out their heart.

Speaker 1 I'm Num Shabai. I'm Num Shivai.

Speaker 1 What a movie. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You should make a movie like that, Tony Gilroy. I know.

Speaker 10 100%.

Speaker 10 Watch out, don't touch the egg.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 2 One of these is the wrong. Oh, my God.
This is like a.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Give me the egg. Wait, I'll do this one.
I'll do this one.

Speaker 2 You can have that. I don't want that question, no.

Speaker 2 If you could have dinner with one historical figure, what would you eat?

Speaker 1 That's a good question. That's a good question.
That's a good question.

Speaker 2 It's an easy answer.

Speaker 2 Fondue.

Speaker 1 Fondue, you're a fondue guy.

Speaker 2 No, I'm not a fondue guy, but like, fondue is like, I want to see, you know, Shakespeare eat fondue.

Speaker 1 Me too. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 To dip or not to dip,

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
It's the first thing. It's an obvious one to come up with.
It sucks.

Speaker 2 That's why you have the red chair.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm on a podcast.

Speaker 1 The question you didn't want to answer is, what do you do during your off hours that makes your work life worse? Basically, we all are, in a sense, Audis punishing our innies.

Speaker 1 And one thing that I don't do as much, but I used to do a lot, is there was a part of me that couldn't accept that I'd failed in my tasks of the day.

Speaker 1 And you would finally admit defeat when you went to bed. If you went, but I wouldn't go to bed, I would just stay on the couch because you could hide from tomorrow on the couch.

Speaker 1 But then you fall asleep on the couch, and then you wake up in the middle of the night and you switch to the bed and you didn't do your tasks. Does that ever happen to you, Patricia or Kett?

Speaker 12 No, I'm just living in a perpetual state of chaos. I have constantly like, yeah, I have cupboards and then I take everything out.
And it's like spread all over the house.

Speaker 12 Every room has piles of stuff that it's like, I'm organizing that and I'm organizing that. Yeah, and I'm going through that and I'm

Speaker 12 scanning that and I'm shredding stuff.

Speaker 1 And it's unbelievable.

Speaker 12 It's crazy. So it's like, oh, God.
Then I have to wake up in the morning and go, oh, God, there's all that shit still.

Speaker 1 I got a lot of drawers. And those drawers, they're full.
And they'll be dealt with at a later date. Do you have those drawers that are like that?

Speaker 12 There's nothing in the drawers. Oh, it's all out.
Everything's out. It's all out.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 I think that comes through as a performer, too. You know?

Speaker 1 You open your cupboards, in a sense, emotionally.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to figure it out. She does.
She opens her cupboards.

Speaker 1 My cupboards are closed.

Speaker 1 All right, Patricia, you want to do one more? And we can maybe all do one more, and we'll do one more together. I wanted to answer actually

Speaker 1 the movie one. Oh, what's the movie one? Do it.
Do it.

Speaker 12 Deathbed, the bed that eats itself. Has anyone seen that?

Speaker 1 Deathbed.

Speaker 1 Deathbed.

Speaker 12 The bed that eats itself.

Speaker 1 Check it out. Wow.
You know, people. Eat me later.
Oh, yeah. We're going to all watch Deathbed.

Speaker 1 The bed that eats itself. You'd think it would eat the people in it.
Right.

Speaker 12 Don't give it away.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's leave it there.
When we come back, we're going to end. with all of us offering something for your consideration.

Speaker 1 And we're back.

Speaker 1 It's awards season.

Speaker 1 Otherwise,

Speaker 1 come on.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 Come on, look at this. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 10 No, no, I've been on the show twice before.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, that's right.
You were on several times. The show was for severance.
Well, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 10 It was severance, but before that, it was for something else.

Speaker 1 From years before. Yeah, years before.
Yes, yes, that's true. So, yeah, okay, so that just,

Speaker 1 this was just for Tony and Patricia. That's right.
That's right.

Speaker 1 Adam, we can get.

Speaker 1 And that's his point.

Speaker 1 So it's time for a segment we're calling for your consideration. There's a wheel.

Speaker 1 When it lands on us, we'll each share one thing we'd like everyone to consider. That's it.
Just consider something.

Speaker 1 Let's spin the wheel.

Speaker 1 It has landed on Adam Scott. Adam, what would you like something for us to consider? Okay.

Speaker 10 Hear me out.

Speaker 10 It's a genuinely great idea that I saw in Shark Tank.

Speaker 10 I bought a bunch of them

Speaker 10 and it changed my life in

Speaker 10 one very specific way, but it's significant and it's helped me out quite a bit.

Speaker 10 Elastic shoelaces.

Speaker 10 It turns any pair of shoes into slip-ons.

Speaker 1 Wow. Right?

Speaker 1 You are.

Speaker 1 The best.

Speaker 1 The best. I am too.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The best.

Speaker 10 Tony, you got to get yourself some elastic shoelace.

Speaker 10 They come in all colors,

Speaker 10 all styles.

Speaker 12 I like it.

Speaker 1 Good idea.

Speaker 1 We'll consider it. Thank you.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's spin it. That's all I'm asking.
Let's spin it again.

Speaker 1 It's landed on Patricia.

Speaker 1 What do you think we should consider?

Speaker 12 I think you should consider the health of your plumbing pipes.

Speaker 12 So, you know, every now and then it's a good idea to just put some vinegar down the drain with some

Speaker 12 baking soda, baking soda, then the vinegar, stuff a rag in, let it bubble up.

Speaker 12 You know, then you won't have that slow, slow drain.

Speaker 10 What does the rag do?

Speaker 12 It just keeps it in there so it's all bubbling.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you know, when you started about cleaning the pipes, even through baking soda and vinegar, I wasn't sure.

Speaker 1 And then when you said stuff a rag in there, I was like, real pipes. We're talking about pipes.

Speaker 1 This isn't like a fiber thing. This is about pipes.
It's about real pipes.

Speaker 12 Yeah, real pipes. Real plumbing.

Speaker 1 Let's spin it again.

Speaker 1 I hope it lands on Tony Gilroy.

Speaker 2 I want to go with deathbed really bad.

Speaker 1 I really do. And

Speaker 2 oh, man. You know, there's a great old show that got canceled called Democracy.
I really think that's something we should consider. Yeah, we should.
It was a great show. It was popular.

Speaker 2 And, like, it had a following, and I don't know what the fuck happened.

Speaker 10 It worked for like a couple hundred years.

Speaker 2 It had a, yeah, no, if you're older than 10, you probably never saw it. I mean, if you're younger than 10, you probably never saw it.
But like, that would be my, like, maybe?

Speaker 1 I think what happened is there was, like, some amazing stunt casting in from about 2008 to 2016.

Speaker 1 And then people were like,

Speaker 1 they didn't like the options when the studio didn't like the options for the replacements. And then so we decided to say, chunk the whole thing.

Speaker 1 It's in turnaround.

Speaker 12 I did talk to a couple of English guys in this room full of people that were really bummed out. And I was one of them.
And they said, You know, I'm kind of hopeful about everything.

Speaker 1 And I was like, Why? How?

Speaker 12 What are you talking about? And they were like, There's probably been a lot of issues with everything.

Speaker 12 So it's all going to burn down to the ground. And you're going to build something new and better.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's one, that's a way to touch the egg now.

Speaker 2 Better, Better, right?

Speaker 1 The only way out is through.

Speaker 1 Let's spin it again.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I have something for you to consider. Consider this.

Speaker 1 After every meal, I don't just mean dinner. I mean breakfast.
I mean lunch. And I mean dinner.
You just have one Hershey's nugget.

Speaker 1 Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Now it's a deal that you're going to make with yourself.
There's no other kinds of desserts, but you get to have it after every meal.

Speaker 1 And you have one little Hershey's nugget

Speaker 1 after breakfast, after lunch, and after dinner. And now part of it is you're lying because you're having three or four after dinner

Speaker 10 when you say Hershey's nugget.

Speaker 1 Are you by chance

Speaker 10 referring to a Hershey's kiss?

Speaker 1 So common mistake, Adam Scott.

Speaker 1 I am not. You see, at around the turn of the 21st century, Hershey's went mad.

Speaker 1 And they realized that they were leaving a lot of money on the table because there was no size of chocolate for which there wasn't a market.

Speaker 1 And it turns out that the Hershey kiss was too small for some people. And the bar, even the fun-size bar, was too big for some people.
And they found a new happy medium, which is the Hershey's nugget.

Speaker 1 Oh, the little square. It's like, yeah, it's gold nugget shaped.

Speaker 1 Well, really more like gold brick shaped, in the image of a brick you have in your mind from the wild west. But it's small.
So it's bigger than a Hershey's kiss.

Speaker 1 You're not going to get away with eating one Hershey's kiss. We're not children.
We're adults eating chocolate after every meal.

Speaker 10 I'm just thinking about the surface area and wondering if it's actually bigger.

Speaker 1 Severance is available

Speaker 1 on Apple Plus. The plus stands for Severance.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Andor is available on Disney Plus. The pluses mean TV shows.

Speaker 1 That's our show.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much, Tony Gilroy, Patricia Arcane, Adam Scott. We'll see you next week at Dynasty Typewriter.
There are 437 days until the midterm elections. Have a great night and have a great weekend.

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Speaker 1 And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review.

Speaker 1 Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free Love It or Leave It and Pod Save America episodes, subscriber-exclusive pods, and more.

Speaker 1 Sign up at crooked.com slash friends. Love it or Leave It is a crooked media production.
It is written and produced by me, John Lovett and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer.

Speaker 1 Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kieper is our head writer.
Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Suba Agarwal are our writers.

Speaker 1 Jordan Cantor is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support.
Stephen Cologne is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Schersher.

Speaker 1 Thanks to our designer Sammy Koderna-Rees for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast.

Speaker 1 And thanks to our digital producers, David Toles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kalman, Delan Villanueva, and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week.

Speaker 1 Our head of production is Matt DeGroote, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

Speaker 1 It's love it or leave it.

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