Ep 512 - White Prisoner's Dilemma (feat. Jared Klickstein)

The Wild Wild Wes. We're live.
Jared Clickstein. What the fuck's up, dude? Thank you for having me.
Total honor. Dude, thanks for coming to do this.
Yeah, of course. I was hyping your book up on the Patreon, too.
I know, I know. I never really talked don't think no i appreciate it like what a book changed everything yeah dude that shit was unbelievable thank you glad you're alive i'm glad i was you sent me the thing and i'm like all right i started like i read a sample chapter and i'm like oh this is fucking i've always wanted for people don't know uh you've you basically lived for a time a period on skid row yeah and that's not the whole story is like you know how you got there how you started off blah blah blah but jesus christ what a for my like perverted voyeuristic brain i was like i can actually like get some boots on the ground account of that because you just drive by and you're like jesus christ so that for me was very satisfying which you know i'm sure it's, dickhead.
I really was always curious what that was like. Well, everyone's curious.
I mean, everyone sees Skid Row. Everyone sees these homeless junkies and like one finally made it out and is like can read words and write words and stuff.
That's a big one. That's a big one.
So, yeah. So I wrote it and I try to make it funny because a lot of people write these, like, drug memoirs and they're really, you know, like Hunter Biden's memoir is probably not funny.
No. Unless you're against the Bidens.
Well, of course, yeah. Actually, he does a good job at swaying people.
I'm like, yeah, Joe Biden is a good fucking... Maybe he is.
I don't fucking know. Maybe he is.
But it wasn't... Yeah, it wasn't funny.
Hunters was not really... Oh, you read it? Yeah, I read Hunters.
Okay. I'm on a big autobiography kick, man.
I read them all. Although I feel like, and forgive me, but I think there could have been aspects of his that might have been politically pressured to kind of paint a certain light.
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure he didn't write it either.
That's another big one. Yeah, so I wrote it.
Although he was pretty productive, man. He was blasting.
He was just ripping crack. He could have just.
He he could have yeah what's crazy is i was just in boston and i like went through all my personal stuff and i found all my dad's shit because my dad was a crackhead and uh they i got taken away when i was 12 and then he just went like full hunter biden he got these camcorders and i have like 20 hours of footage no no dicks or anything or not not yet i've only watched like his footage? So it's non-sex tapes. It's just him? It's like him and my mom like smoking crack and like being paranoid and like him doing drug deals and like setting up the camera on his like little Ford tours.
Why was he set up the cam? Because he's paranoid. True.
And it's like him like filming his closet and he's like the CIA has like summoned a demon to live in my closet. It's like really crazy shit.
How many hours of this footage do you have? I have like 20 tapes. Yeah.
Damn. So that'll probably be the subject of like the next book or like a documentary.
Yeah, I was about to say that would be a wild doc. Damn, maybe he was just reviewing the tapes trying to get better at drug dealing and be like, ah, I could have been a little more careful right there in that parking lot.
Well, I think he was just really paranoid and was filming everything.

And I think crack does make you voyeuristic

or it makes you start filming for some reason.

I don't know.

Yeah, but this is like 2001, like with a camcorder.

I could see that.

If you wake up, you're like, damn, last night was a movie.

Dude, I got to record the next one.

And he's like learning how to edit.

It was like editing on the camera,

like doing swipes and stuff.

So it's like him smoking crack.

And then there's just like a swipe of a picture of a crack pipe he's like doing like iMovie shit from 2001 so you're gonna go through all that footage i'm gonna go through all yeah i went through like two hours of it already damn what was that like that must have been kind of charged i mean i know i'm laughing and and i know this is a comedy podcast you know but uh yeah it's dark yeah it's fucking dark yeah man oh my god yeah that would uh yeah yeah all right you submit for america's funny some videos i mean and your dad your dad passed my dad passed yeah yeah not from crack yeah he cleaned up yeah but uh thank you yeah r.i.p so this is a weird way to be introduced to my dad but yeah and i hope there's hope there's no dicks or any like, I'm just praying that there's no like sexual stuff. Yeah.
You can blur him. He wasn't like that.
You can blur him for the doc. Yeah.
That would be, that would be pretty rugged, dude. Yeah.
It's also a, I don't know. There is something hard.
It's your parents, you know, it's your dad. So there's something like heartwarming about watching it, but it is.
Yeah. It's utterly twisted.
Well, what's really fucked up is like, I remember them on drugs. So seeing them on drugs is like heartwarming.
Yeah. Which is fucked up.
Yeah. It's really fucked up.
But you know, it's good footage. That is, that would be a pretty stellar doc.
Yeah. HBO, if you're listening, you know.
And if there's any part of you that's like, is it right? It's like, dude, I always say, yes. Yeah.
They owe it to you. had he recorded the crack footage don't waste it they're like should i really put them out there like that i would say yes not in a bad way but it's like it's your story to tell yeah exactly if i was doing that my kids had all that footage i'd be like yeah dude fuck yeah you can do anything with this please no and it shows them in like a pretty good light i mean they're good they were good people you know so like they're like having conversations and talking about cool shit and, and like, you know, dragons living in the closet and all that.
So it is funny. It is dark, but, uh, you know, unfortunately, that's all the footage I have of them.
Really? Yeah. Damn.
Yeah. I mean, most, to be fair, most people don't have any, I have no videos really of my parents.
So I know you don't really think about that. So fortunately they were crackheads and got really into camcorders.

That's pretty sick,

dude.

I might hire a camera crew,

full-time camera crew.

My parents now catch their final,

yeah,

just catch their remaining year,

just turn their whole life into a reality show against their will.

Yeah.

No,

I filmed my dad recently,

like right before he died,

he like told a story cause he,

he did Yo-Yo Ma's kitchen and like all his finished carpentry

or like finished cabinetry and all that.

And he was like stealing Oxycontin from Yo-Yo Ma.

Who's Yo-Yo Ma?

He was a cellist, celloist.

Yeah, yeah.

Who was on Oxys?

I think he like is a legitimate guy

that got like a back surgery or something.

I believe that.

But my dad did not, you know,

he was just stealing it.

Doing his kitchen.

Yeah, so he told the story. It was pretty funny.
That's really funny, actually. How'd the kitchen turn out? Really good.
My dad was a great carpenter. He did John Kerry's desk and office, and John Kerry tried to not pay him.
What? Yeah. Senator John Kerry? Senator John Kerry has it.
Yeah. Apparently, he had an issue with paying people.
What? Yeah. They wrote about it in the Boston Globe.
Yeah. heard it here first dude i never heard it here second dude that's crazy yeah so he tried to stiff how much did you try to stiff your dad for oh i i don't know how much but uh but my dad went went you know he was like a senator in boston and then and then i guess he went to dc at some point and my dad went down to dc and like did his office down there got you yeah he was like thanks dickhead yeah that's brutal dude yeah that sucks so so that that was like your whole start was just you grew up just it was pretty it was kind of nuts or like i remember you described it as like it was nuts but as a little kid you would just watch your parents just kind of off the rails and be like no they're just uh a little stressed like you eventually learn there's a funny part of that book was like i thought they were smoking weed and i was like holy shit dude well that's what's cool about the uh like the tapes that i have because my dad would make his own crack pipes and he would and they look like little like bongs you know so i would just find these bongs and i just thought my parents are smoking weed yeah that makes sense yeah because i saw half half baked came out and I was like oh my parents are just you know they just wait they just weigh 90 pounds and they smoke weed they must not be getting the munchies enough yeah that is that is pretty there was parts of that book literally I would just start crying I brought it to Denver with me I read it like I like started reading it on the plane I'm like Jesus Christ it's so like engrossing you get so engross it.
And then I like, I'll get back from shows and just read it for like hours. And I ripped through it and like pretty much a weekend.
Yeah. Well, thank you, man.
I mean, I'm not like, obviously I've like have holes in my brain and I've like killed a lot of brain cells. So it's an easy read.
You know, I, I'm not like, I'm not Shakespeare or anything, but, uh, but I appreciate English in there at all. But I appreciate, I'm sure you get hit up by a lot of people with like, here's a picture I drew or whatever.
Here's a book I wrote, you know, thank you for reading it. Dude, it was awesome.
It was genuinely really, uh, and then it's so, and you've, you've been on Fox, I think a couple of times or maybe what else you've been on the news and you're like giving like the takes on like homelessness, which I thought that was kind of cool too. I didn't know.
Yeah. Cause you came out of that.
I'm sure people would love to have you like, see, we need more funds. And you're like, actually.
Well, Fox loves me. Cause, uh, yeah.
If any opportunity to shit on California, like they'll take you on. So they took me on like immediately and I'm like pretty apolitical, but, um, and everyone was like, don't go on Fox.
Like it's going to fuck your life up. Uh, fuck Fox and all that.
And, and I was i was like no i'm gonna go on fox yeah and i did it and it got me a book deal and uh it actually reunited me with my aunt and uncle that's pretty cool they thought i was just still a crackhead well you know like five years so they saw me on the news i saw you on the winners network yeah yeah like damn dude he's fucking winning right now yeah well they don't actually they're kind of like they don't like fox but like a relative was like yo jared's on fox and uh and they saw me and they're like oh shit he's probably not smoking crack yeah they have to watch it and be like huh yeah this is pretty good yeah that i mean it is a that was a cool thing you did in the book where it's like you know here's my story and then it's like by the way and i think you did this pretty good where it wasn't like, cause you could have like went full court press, like, here's my takes on policy, blah, blah, blah. It would just get like tossed in peppered in.
You'd be like, yeah, that's a fair point. Yeah.
And correct me if I'm wrong. Your, your whole idea is that like, definitely we should help homeless people, but like, let's kind of build accountability in there.
If you're just kind of like putting people up for free or just like showering people and resources and not dealing with the inner issue. Yeah.
You're killing them because they're just going to keep getting high and die. Yeah.
It's like a house is burning down and like, instead of spraying it with water, you're like, here's like medicine to like deal with your burns. You know, like we have to kind of address the key, like the foundational issue of addiction.
And listen, there's a lot of that aren't addicted obviously you know some of them are just mentally ill yeah permanently a lot of those people that are mentally ill like i was mentally ill like i was screaming in like a mcdonald's dining area like you know i was like yelling at people and throwing shit that feel good yeah i've always wanted to get it kind of does because when you're home it's crazy because when you become homeless you're like i'm not I'm not, I'm like jaywalking. It like starts with jaywalking.
And then you're like, I'm going to like deliberately walk in front of cars. Dude, I always wondered about that.
So you start being like, fuck these cars. I'm going.
And then you're like, I'm going to litter. And then you're like, I'm going to like knock over a trash can.
And it just like escalates. And it's like, I'm going to throw shit at people in a McDonald's.
And then it's like, I'm going to rob people. Yeah.
I might as well put all this energy to good use. And yeah, it does escalate.
Because going to jail is like, it's basically like a sleepover. It's like, oh shit, I get to like chill for like three days.
So going to jail is like not a punishment. It's like, oh shit, I'm going to get a pillow and like a shower.
Yeah. So you're like, I'll throw shit at people.
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm going to fuck this lady up.
Yeah. Yeah.
I saw a guy recently, um, which one we call it. Jesus Christ.
I'm blanking on where I was. This is bad.
I was in Portland, Oregon and they have a lot of homeless people. Oh yeah.
Yeah. This weekend.
And I, there was this guy I was, I was, me and Nate Marshall were walking and this guy, he like just, he was kind of drunk. He was like, Oh, what are you guys homies? And I was like, yeah, actually we are.
And I was like, maybe he's just being friendly. I couldn't really tell.
And then I come back and he was just getting in homeless people's faces and being like, what's up, dude? And like, shoulder bumping him. I'm like, dude, you're gonna get fucking stabbed, dude.
I was waiting for him. I'm like, please fucking bash this guy's head in.
That was, because that was the thing too. Like the, I didn't realize how hard everyone was rumbling in this.
I mean, obviously I knew there was like bad stuff going on, but on. But you were saying, like, you sleep with, like, a pipe between your legs.
People would come in your setup, and you got to just fucking. Yeah.
That shit, I was like. I mean, it makes sense, obviously.
But I was always like, I think people are maybe just chilling a little more peaceful. No, people are pretty angry.
Yeah. Because you have nothing to lose.
When you have nothing to lose, you're willing to lose your life. Because your life isn't worth that much.
So, and I'm like, you know, I'm like not big. I'm like a white guy.
I like look, you know, I look the way I look, but, uh, you know, I, I looked like I was like 16 until I was like 30, you know? So I looked like a kid. Same.
And then I looked like I was 75 very fast. I skipped like three, three decades of aging.
And now I went from like looking like I was like 27 to looking like I was like 55. Yeah.
Well, I look forward to hitting that relatively soon. But yeah.
Yeah. So like I looked like a bitch basically.
I mean, I'm not hard, you know. So yeah, people tried to fuck with me.
And like, you know, being white on Skid Row is unlike everything else in life. It's a detriment.
Yeah. So, you know, it wasn't that cool.
But people were almost like flabberg they're like what is this like suburban white boy they were like kind of respected it yeah they're like holy fuck man this like clean cut white kid is is like doing it on skid row so and it was probably came in handy like you're i was reading that like that's kind of nice where you're able to like use your kind of appearance to it just helped you yeah like i went to college i can talk so like people were like oh shit we could keep this kid around and like talk to the police for us or whatever and i was really good at stealing because of it yeah you know if you're like a mexican guy with tattoos all over your face it's it's not easy to like go steal shit yeah trying to lift toothpaste is not easy yeah yeah at least 10 years ago true yeah now it's all locked up i guess yeah yeah so that kind of fucked everything up like i was doing it back in the day when they weren't locking everything up and i was like pretty good i had like a pretty good system and and i made more money than i do now like working a job yeah you were saying when you were shoplifting it was a couple thousand like a day pretty much no like a couple thousand a week on taxed yeah you know sweet so like the same that you would make it like a job now. Same.
It's a shame you missed the self checkout. I know.
I had no excuse. I was of a relatively sober mind and I pillaged those things pretty hard in the beginning.
And it wasn't even for like a lust for stuff. I was just kind of like, it was more of like a game where I'd be like, is anyone here actually paying attention to this? Yeah.
And it turned out, no, not really at all. No, but yeah, I've since for obviously given that up, but the, um, yeah, I remember that part of the book where you had a guy who would serve as decoy and then you would just slip into the side and just, cause he was, I guess everyone was like, Oh, this motherfucker is going to come in here and steal and you could just clean out and move.
Yeah. Yeah.
Richie. I mean, his real name was ride and I'll just say it, I guess.
But, uh, yeah, riding Ryden was known across LA County as a top shoplifter. So he'd go in first.
All the staff would be like,

fucking Ryden's here. They would all huddle around Ryden.
And then I'd sneak in with two

Trader Joe's permanent shopping bags tucked in my pants and just dump shit into my bags.

Damn, then you'd probably be looking pretty hippie when you went out of there, though.

I know. I looked like a good Samaritan just chopping.
Wait, so you had them in your pants and you popped them out? Popped them out. And then carried? Yeah, just carried two bags.
And I linked up with this like, what do you call it, like a fence. And I got him to start buying makeup.
So I just like pour makeup into my bag. And he'd give me like $2.75 per little eyelash thing or whatever.
And yeah, I just started making a ton of money. This episode is brought to you by Call of Duty.
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Rated M for Mature. Damn.
And still going to sleep every night with $0. Fuck.
Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty wild.
That was the craziest thing. So for you, it was like, you know, and again, in the book, you kind of detail it, but you start out, you know, it's pretty like regular kind of stuff.
But in terms of the drug use, it wasn't so much of like, oh, I'm going to try this, I'm'm going to try that you just describe having this just like constant feeling of like this is wrong shit's wrong shit's fucked up and it was like I need to stay drunk all the time and it was the thing you talk about I really like is just how like the kind of the mental gymnastics of like look I'm always here's my line I'm good on this side of the line if I cross this line then it then it's a problem. Then you cross the line, you're like, look, no, no.
The line's over here. And if I cross over here, then I'm fucked.
And eventually it's like, God damn it. Yeah, yeah.
There's just constant. And obviously the end line is like, I'm going to have sex with a guy for money.
You know, that's like the last line. And fortunately I did not cross that line.
I know people don't believe that. Why? Why do people not believe that? What the fuck, dude? It's just all my high school friends are like, we know you did it, you know? And I swear I didn't.
I mean, one time I let a guy tickle my feet for a hundred dollars. Who wouldn't dude? That's who wouldn't.
And he, and he actually was like a kind of a camcorder guy. So like he filmed it and I, and I've hit him up on Gmail.
This was like 2011 so i've recently hit him up on gmail and i'm like yo i know you've tickled a lot of feet but like do you remember me like i i'd like to see that footage and he's like i'll give you a hundred bucks yeah yeah exactly and he's like i he's like what size foot were you like i gotta remember and and he's like i don't know i've tickled too feet, but he like tied me up in a bed,

like with those,

like,

you know,

those like kinky tie up things that have like quick release.

It's like safe play or whatever.

I could imagine.

Yeah.

So like,

it was like kind of my wife.

But he was cool.

He went to UC Berkeley.

He was like a small Asian man.

Nice.

We talked to you.

You know,

I went to UC Santa Cruz.

So we,

we had our little rivalry.

We talked,

we know we talked school and then he tickled me. Was what was his deal was he kind of like just a sexual pervert he's just a sexual pervert he was kind of otherwise just chilling normal job he's like yeah oh yeah he i think he had like a good job but he was just like i'm really into tickling i'm really into tickling feet specifically and i was like well i'm like a meth head so my feet yeah do not look good you know and i was like can i keep socks on and he was like no no you got to take the socks off so i took the socks off and he was like put the socks back on your feet were thrashed and then he was like tickling my feet and he was like and i wasn't like eventually you stop laughing it stops becoming ticklish and he was like you have like you that's how you get paid like you have to laugh so that was weird fake it i had to fake it i faked it yeah so uh that was really like the and that was pretty innocent honestly so i crossed way worse

lines in terms of like uh you know damage i did to other people and things like that that i don't

feel good about but um generally i had a pretty good time you know i started out as a heroin addict

and that was pretty manageable and boring you just kind of get sleepy but then i moved to

methamphetamine and that's when things kind of the way you did that was kind of cool what wasn't

Thank you. good time.
You know, I started out as a heroin addict and that was pretty manageable and boring. You just kind of get sleepy, but then I moved to a methamphetamine and that's when things kind of, the way you did that was kind of cool.
It wasn't as bad idea, but like how you're saying you were, yeah, you were delivering heroin for a guy and they basically forced you like, bro, I know you're going to be nodding out and shit, hit some meth, get out there. Yeah.
Yeah. I kind of worked for this guy that was like working under the cartel and, and, um, and he would pay me tos, you know, as you see outside, they're sleepy.
You know, they're pretty sleepy. So he was like, I can't trust that you drive and do heroin.
You're going to crash. You're going to get arrested.
So you actually, as a prerequisite for the job, you have to start doing meth. And that was a line.
You know, that was a line. And I was like, well, it's part of my job.
Details, like obviously I'm going do that. Being responsible.
Yeah. And in meth, I like fell in love with meth.
I'm a company man. And, uh, yeah, I started doing meth and that, like, I went from like a homeless student, I mean, no, no, sorry.
A drug addict student, like pretty manageable, had a girlfriend, all that, like to like within three weeks, like screaming at people, homeless, like lost my place to live, dropped out of school, crashed my car, lost the car. Yeah.
Meth like really quickly took me down. And that kind of sent you into orbit basically.
Yeah. And I like lost my mind and, and, and, you know, there's, there's a lot of fun to be had like in meth psychosis and all that, but it does become pretty unmanageable.
And eventually I used crack cocaine to quit meth. So I kind of fell in love with crack.
Because that got you off of meth, yeah. And I've heard vice versa.
I've heard of people using meth to get off of crack. A lot of people actually do that.
Yeah, so if you go to Skid Row, it's like full of like OG crackheads that switch to meth. And they're kind of like, are they tame or are they kind of out of it? Well, meth is meth is cheaper but i think you see meth is like you can stay up for six days on meth and like really start doing some damage like you know really thinking that you're talking to demons and all that and you get into this like really dark psychosis whereas crack is very simple it's just like you think the it's like you're just paranoid about the police so like it actually and it's very like short it's like short bursts of this paranoia that's actually pretty fun that's cool yeah so like you smoke crack and you think like the fbi is after you which is kind

of cool yeah that's better than demons i'd rather keep it to this realm yeah exactly myself up to

like you know yeah interdimensional fucking beings and shit and you like tell yourself every you're

like i'm gonna smoke this crack.

Like,

obviously the CIA is not after me.

Obviously the FBI is not after me.

Like I'm just a crack,

I'm a homeless crackhead.

And then you,

every single time that you smoke crack

and you're like immediately hiding behind a dumpster

and you're like,

you're like,

there's a helicopter.

And they're like,

I stole some makeup.

They're fucking after.

I'm on the,

I'm on like America's most wanted.

I'm on the bulletin board.

They got my picture.

The fucking yarn connected me. that um yeah that is kind of terrifying it was weird too when you said you're able to like eventually with meth realize like with like you know when you're bugging out on weed like none of this is real but like i guess obviously it's way deeper but to realize like this is just a meth delusion and i'm and i was that you were able to like kind of ride that out a little bit which sounds fucking crazy yeah well when you first start doing it you have a lot of auditory hallucinations so you actually hear like your friends in the so you're like holy shit my friends are in the house like they're in the next room then you start texting your friend you know i would text my friends and be like you know i've i hear you talking shit you know and they're like i miles away right now.
And you're like, yeah, right. Yeah.
Oh, fuck. And then so, but the auditory hallucinations are so, they're just so insane that eventually you are like, okay, like my friends are not in the next room.
My family is not in the next room. And you sort of tame the beast at that point.
And then it just turns into like mental hallucinations, which are more creative and more fun. Okay.
Once you get over the paranoia, you're like, actually, yeah, let's explore some of these other ideas. Yeah, yeah.
But it's a terrible drug. I don't recommend anyone, you know.
It's pretty hard to like functionally use meth. Yeah, I can see that.
And like keep your job. Unless you're a Nazi soldier.
Yeah, or a gay guy. Gay guys seem to be able to do it pretty well yeah yeah yeah that's pretty cool how what the hell yeah i don't know i used to like chill with these gay dudes in san francisco and they were like flight attendants and like had jobs yeah do you think they were like microdosing or they like they're blazing no i think they were using meth pretty hard well that you know you use meth for like a long weekend it works really well with jobs that are like three days on four days off oh that makes sense you just crash for like three days and then they'd use g uh ghb to like come down and i like ghb but they were like do not pass out around us they're like someone could come in like they let you they're like that's like a that's on you buddy yeah true so i'd use ghb and be like it's time for me to go guys yeah like this is getting too wild in here and yeah dude yeah i mean maybe not to sound like you know ridiculous i could see that if you're like a gay guy and you're just kind of messed up people like he's a little sassy yeah it might just take your sass to the next level well they were my friends but they were like we have other friends that like we can't they might come in here and who know you're passed out like who knows what happens you know so, so.
Fair. They're like looking out for me That's fair, yeah.
Yeah. Especially if you're like you know, partying on meth, that's like Yeah, if you're partying on meth with a bunch of gay guys in San Francisco, it's kind of on you.
Yeah. If something like that happens I would agree.
I would agree. Especially if it's like, if it's already like were they like into like, obviously they're probably doing like the chem sex thing and all that.
Yeah, heavy into chem sex. That's basically, yeah.
Can't pass out a chem sex orgy dude. No, you cannot pass out.
I would say that's on you. Traditionally, I'd be like, well, you know, people should conduct themselves in a proper manner.
But if you're just like, yeah, I'm going to go to bed right now. A little sleepy.
DHB's kicking my ass. I'm about to pass out, guys.
You do you. I'm going to just sleep here on my belly.
Don't bother me. I'm such a pussy with substances.
I took melatonin for the first time recently because I'm trying to get my sleep, which I've had some success getting my sleep schedule under wraps with traveling and all this stuff. So I've started taking melatonin.
I'm such a pussy with substances. Even that, three milligrams of melatonin, I'm like, I take it.
I'm just laying there reading a book i'm like it's not even working so i'm just reading reading reading all of a sudden i like put my book down i'm like oh fuck my arms are so heavy i was like oh no just curl up next to my wife like help me i don't like yeah i was like the opposite like anything if anything goes into my body i'm like what's this what's happening what's it you know but i i do understand you get to the point where you go, I don't give a fuck. You're just, you know, I, I do get that too.
So if like, if things are going wrong and things are, you know, you're just like, I don't give a fuck. I need to exit.
You build a tolerance to like physically, but you also build a tolerance mentally. You're like, I want to check out.
You know? So like, I was like, by the end, I was shooting heroin, cocaine, and Klonopin at the same time, which is, uh, I don't even know if shooting Klonopin works, but I was, you know, I was shooting Klonopin. I'm sure it does.
I'm sure it got into your bloodstream. I think so.
Yeah. It like, uh, what do you call it? It like, it, it makes the heroin acts heavier, you know, cause you get such a high tolerance to heroin.
And like the problem with heroin is like, you get really addicted to heroin to the point where your life gets really shitty and then you want to kill yourself. But it's like a catch 22 because like now you've become too physically addicted that it's hard to overdose on heroin to kill yourself, you know? Oh, yeah.
So that chain, obviously, with fentanyl, that's different. Yeah.
You can kill yourself pretty easily with fentanyl. So you got out of it before like the big shit with like the – what's that shit called? Trank with like the big news.
Have you seen that i mean i i i last got high in 2018 and i i was uh right when fentanyl really started hitting but i was in florida at one point and and fentanyl sort of hit florida first so i have shot fentanyl uh i don't like it you know um i died you know i overdosed in some guy's car and he like took me to the hospital and like took everything out of my pockets and like dragged me out of his car and left me jerk but they you know they narcan they like narcan me and uh they were like yeah man you you you were you were doing fentanyl and i was like i i didn't even know what fentanyl was and they told me so then obviously i was like i'm never doing that again and then like two days later i was like i'm gonna do that again and uh fentanyl is you died you clinic i died i died for like four minutes yeah i have a friend who did that he died like three times yeah it's crazy it's crazy because you're like dead and then they narcan you and you feel like you're underwater and someone's like pulling you up from the ocean you're like at the bottom of the ocean you can't breathe you're like trying to breathe and then they like pull you out then you just pop out of the ocean and then then you like, you're just in a hospital and people are like looking at you.

And I heard you're pretty agitated too.

Cause like it all wears off.

It all wears off.

You're fucking pissed. And they like, don't want to help you.

Cause you're, I'm like, can I use a phone?

The guy took my phone.

They're like, can you use a phone?

Like, yeah, you're right on the beat.

You're like, bro, I need to talk to my boy.

It was me 40 bucks.

You're like, lay down, dude.

You're dead.

Yes.

And then, and they cut my shirt open.

So I had like a, they like let me go with a gown in Miami. And I was just like walking around Miami with a gown and like no phone.
And I called my dad. I finally called my dad and he was like, he was just like, man, you got to go to jail.
Like jail would help you right now. Yeah.
You know, so what'd you do? I think I just called some other people and eventually, you know, I got picked up, but I just kept using fentanyl, but fentanyl is like very debilitating like you know i would do fentanyl and like i had like a two-week run on fentanyl and i'd like you do fentanyl and you just wake up 12 hours later in like a different neighborhood and you know it's really fucked up whereas heroin you can like like i used to do construction on heroin like you can maintain it i used like operating heavy machinery and shit yeah whereas with fentanyl i couldn't even make it back to my halfway house so like the one rule at my halfway house was like you just have to show up before midnight and you don't get kicked out and i got kicked out like i couldn't even drive a car yeah yeah that makes sense yeah i've worked with guys on heroin before they're not it's not like ideal obviously but you know it's not ideal they can get the job done yeah my dad did it for like 30 years yeah you know and and you know he did fine until starts when crack and then you know crack is can get the job done. Yeah.
My dad did it for like 30 years. Yeah.
You know, and, and, you know, he did fine until he started smoking crack. And then, you know, crack is, is, is a different beast.
Yeah. That's, that's what my, I used to this guy, I would ride around with him all the time in his truck and he would try to literally like get me to do heroin.
He'd be like, bro, you got it. And my other friend explained it to me that it's really one of those things where when you start doing heroin, you're going to, you start to evangelize it because you want people underneath you.
Exactly. You can start selling them.
Yeah. Yeah.
We worked at you a little time. a little time.
You'd be like, bro, man, you'd be having such a fun time. And I'm like, it's like noon.
He's just sweating profusely driving around. I'm like, man, I think I'm right.
He's like, dude, you can eat. You're not going to lose your appetite.
You'll just party. You'll have a day.
You'll be awesome. Meanwhile, I literally picked him up from his house or met him at his house.
He was actually the one driving, which is funny enough. But it was just like him, his babes is on a mattress on the ground.
Also, he was just like, she was active in the family business, obviously. She was like selling herself.
Yeah. So all this stuff's being proposed to me.
He's like, bro, I'm telling you, it's a good time. I was like, I'm good, man.
I mean, it is a good time when you're on heroin. Yeah.
And then you wake and then the heroin wears off and it's like the worst time. Yeah, true.
And then your life becomes this every day. It's like you do heroin.
You're like, I have 12 hours until I'm having diarrhea and like really sick from heroin. That's not far off.
No, exactly. But it's like this.
Unless you put heroin on the food in the airport. I think I have the same thing.
I think it might be dosing me right now. But it's like a full-time job and it's actually kind of cool because you like have.
Cause you like have this one singular goal and it's like, I just have to like steal shit and get heroin. And then it's like, I have to steal shit and get heroin again.
And then the next thing you know, like six months have passed and, you know, and, uh, but that second that the second something doesn't link up and you like, you know, you, you show up at the CVS and someone already stole all the shit and you're getting dope sick and everything because once you get too far into dope sickness you're too dope sick to hustle up money and it's like this it's a crazy like uh treadmill that you have to just run every day yeah that's why they say a lot of people who get clean do like very very well in sales and all like yeah clean they hit sales jobs and they just crush Yeah. That's a big thing in Florida.
Like get off heroin, start selling like scam vacations to Canadians or something. Yeah.
That was my, uh, someone I know was down there getting clean in Florida and he was like, if you ever get a bill collector or anything, just be like, how's it going, man? You clean. He's had a lot of people that call you up on like telemarketing or just down in Florida, like outside of rehab.
I did it yeah my dad got sober in florida so i i went out to florida and lived in a halfway house with him and i i tried doing the sales job i left both times at like noon yeah i just i like labor i like doing labor telemarketing is crazy i've tried my hand at it as well and it's i i can't explain it's just the weirdest fucking job there's this little thing and like dude managers are listening in on your call i would be intensely nervous like oh hey there's a dude i know there's a guy listening i'm like fuck and they give you a script and it's like i know how to talk like let me just talk to this guy and they're like no no you got to read and they're like listening on your headset and they're like read the fucking script yeah i wrote the script just read the script you're so bad how do they not know that it's like the thing? Yeah, but there's guys that are just making like five grand a week doing it. I know.
You know, it's crazy. Yeah, that is.
There were the office big dogs. I did like tech, cyber, I don't know what it was.
It was like selling like servers and shit. Yeah.
And there were guys that were absolutely coining it in there. Yeah.
They just had, they could sit there and like hold it. Like out of a movie, they'd like hold a ball and be like, let me tell you about the new Pentium 4.
I was like, fuck, dude. I prefer getting paid $9 an hour and just doing demo with no one that speaks English.
Yeah, it is nice, actually. Holy crap, guys.
This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. What's something you'd love to learn? As an adult, do you make time to learn new things as often as you'd like? Or was that lost in childhood? Kids are always learning and growing, but as adults, sometimes we lose that curiosity.
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Hey guys, really quick. I have a couple of shows coming up.
I'd love to see you there. I will be, I'll be in Philly this weekend, but that's gone.
Comedy Connection, East Providence, Rhode Island. That is September 12th to the September 14th.
Please go. I think that'll sell out, but let's have fun there.
Cleveland, Ohio. I'll be at the Hilarities Comedy Club from October 10th to October 12th.
And then Boston. I'll be at the Wilbur.
1018. One night, only two shows.
Come on. That's actually, that's poised to sell out any minute now.
Any day now, really. Also Milwaukee, I'll be at the improv 1024 to 1026.
And these guns are big guys, please come to these ones. God damn it.
Please Washington DC area, Virginia. I'll be at the Capitol one hall in Tysons, Virginia on November 15th.
And then the next day I'll be at the New York comedy festival town hall, New York city, the state of New York, New York city, New York. That's 1116 guys, please come.
Then I'll have a bunch of other dates coming up. Love you.
Bye. It does have like a freeing effect on the mind where you're doing that.
When you're just knocking down walls, carrying heavy stuff at the end of the day, you're tired. You lay down.
Yeah. That's what I did in Florida.
Like I just did like grunt manual labor with like Cubans and Nicaraguans. And yeah, this one guy had a tool chest that said work will set you free, which is what Auschwitz said.
I don't think, I don't think he was aware of that, but I was like, damn, work does set you free. And, uh, I don't know.
It sets you, it's, I recommend if you're trying to get off opiates or drugs, like just go do manual labor. I mean, it really helped me.
Yeah, I could see that. I don't do it anymore, but fuck.
I mean, it just makes the clock spin. You're just trying to make the clock spin at first.
Yeah, to get time. Get through the time, yeah.
Yeah, that was another thing, too, I found kind of striking when you were like, you would get clean. You'd be like, all right, everything's going well.
Then there'd be a part of your brain where you're like, I'm doing heroin. I'm definitely doing it again.
It's just a matter of like all right I'm gonna make it to this city I'm not gonna stop I'm gonna stop over here yeah that's the weirdest part of the whole thing when it's like it's a it's like a hard thing for people to wrap their head around because it's like you can have the experience of things going like as south as possible but you know and like your immediate relationships get thrown off all this stuff you get clean and the thing that sucks about addiction is that thing where you're like i don't want to do this but there's genuinely a part of you that's just like you're like fuck whatever yeah you can't control it's hard to explain to anybody else and it's such a weird part of ourselves that people don't really know what to do with like even like experts like i don't know yeah i mean yeah if you're following your own will and you're a drug addict you are going to do heroin whether it takes you two days or a week or 30 days five years like you're just gonna you're just gonna do heroin and and uh you know your life you know my life would get pretty good i'd like buy like a 1200 car and like get a little job and then be like okay i'm moving you know i drove from florida to oakland one time and like got my apartment set up and everything and then i like, I'm going to fucking stay clean. And then I hit like new Orleans and I was like, I'm going to go check out, you know, what's going on.
And you're like, I wonder if like, you'd like talk to a kid at a gas station. You're like, is there heroin here? Like just out of curiosity, you know? And then, uh, there better not be any heroin here, is there? But, uh, I mean, obviously this, you know, I know this is a Catholic podcast, you know, I, I got spiritual, you know, i've heard i've heard that is for real the thing that really helps man yeah yeah and people don't want to hear that shit but uh sorry like that's what you know that's what helped me and it's not like it's a non-denominational thing but like i just like had to give it up you know and uh yeah man i believe in god and and i don't want to get weird or anything about god or anything but like you know I believe in something, you have to believe in something bigger than yourself as like watching over you and you have to kind of accept, it's actually like a humility thing.
It's like when I make, when I'm in charge and I make decisions, like I end up in a bathtub in Chinatown, like missing my toe or some shit and like a needle in my arm. And like that, that is where I literally end up.
And, uh, so I can't make decisions like when, so you just kind of like try to align your will with God's will. And, um, listen, man, I'm sitting across the table from Matt McCusker right now.
And like, I was literally a homeless guy on Skid Row, you know? So like, you know, obviously, yeah, that's right. How many can we have his problems? Like, dude, it's so fucking cool.
I've never got one of these guys. No, I figure like a lot of people, you know, we see these guys, see these guys like people want to hear these guys you know i'm one i'm a heroin guy like i'm a guy like you know so that is crazy if you think about it no dude if you were to sit there you drive past skid row and you're like oh there's a fucking published author right you know it's like you don't think of it at all yeah it is great i i do think it is regrettable that that that's just the taboo of our time religion taboooo of our time.
Back in the Victorian times, you couldn't talk about sex. You could talk about religion.
Now you can be like, you know, whatever. You can be like, my daughter does OnlyFans.
I'm very proud of her. But you can't talk about God.
I think their health teacher now in school actually shows their dick to the class. I don't know how they do it.
It's like, it's so weird. And if you bring up religion, it's like, I do think that's how AA was founded.
It was, I think the guy, Bill was the dude's name. He actually met with Carl Jung back when, you know, whatever.
And Carl Jung was the guy who was like, bro, if you don't come up with some sort of spiritual connection or come up with some sort of connection to a reality beyond yourself or whatever, a transpersonal reality, you're doomed. It's like if you hit, you know, if you're over 40, that was Carl Jung's big thing.
He's like, if you hit 40 and you don't come up with some worldview that doesn't have you at the absolute center of the universe, if you can somehow shift it up to where there's actually something way beyond yourself and kind of humble yourself, he's like, the rest of your life will be way easier. If you don't, it's just all going to fall apart.
And here I go, Oh shit. Yeah.
That's like the key for everybody. I mean, especially in the, you know, it works for drug addicts.
I think it would work for everybody. It does.
I genuinely think it does. I had a similar thing.
Cause I was, I grew up Catholic and you know, it was like, you like, you get out and you're like, church is bullshit. It's not a real buddy of Christ real bunny of christ they figured it out you know and you know all of a sudden your life starts to fall apart and like you know it can be bigger or lesser ways and you're like same thing you're like i've been in charge of the program here results are less than spectacular let me try to reorient myself as you know again because it reorients you more towards like service rather than like trying to self-aggrandize and blah blah blah and uh right now i'm doing a project where i'm just studying a bunch of autobiographies and i'm trying to figure out like if there is i guess i don't know what to call it i guess it would be like circumstantial proof or whatever just like anecdotal of like worldviews where it's like you know me at the center of the world they call it it's like express self is like a type of value system where it's like, I get what I want at the end of the day, at the end of the day, you know, I'm the boss.
And there's a lot of people that's the value system. Then there's the sacrifice self value system, which is like, there's something greater than me.
I have to live by, you know, some sort of rules that I don't necessarily set. And I'm trying to like, look at all these autobiographies and try to see like, all right, who lives is like more of an express self type.
Who lives is the sacrifice self. And then after reading, hopefully like 50 or 100 autobiographies being like, all right, here's how these ended up basically.
And everyone probably has like a bit of a mix. Yeah.
I think that's kind of crazy how that is the thing where it's like, I don't want to get weird, but I believe in God. And it's like, it's not that weird.
People have been doing it since the beginning of like human consciousness. Yeah.
So what you're saying, people get worried too. It's like, oh man, like, uh, you know, I don't want to come off as like a religious nut.
Cause it is, I get it. People like people can really hammer that home to the point where it's like, all right, but yeah, I'm glad for you.
I think that's a good thing. And it's, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, it's hard to monetize where it's like, well, you know, it's easier to set up.
Like, well, we got to figure out with like pills, this, that, and this, it's like, well, you can also have a spiritual experience. And they're like, all right.
So I don't know. I'm not saying it's like a big conspiracy, but like, well, it's an unfortunate thing of our time when it's such a simple, so I mean, it's not a simple solution, obviously, but it's one of those things where it's like, I don't know.
I think it's regrettable that people are so like, oh, when I, when you're, you know, you, I can say it's like one of those things that can help your life so tremendously. If you find something, you know, tailored for yourself, you don't have to like sever off your rational mind.
You just have to like, you know, maybe pluck a little chunk out of it and just kind of keep the rest. And it like, you know, it gives you community.
It gives you a sense of like, there's a bigger thing going on than just what's in my head. And like, what I think this person thinks about me at the office and like, you know, drug addicts are the most like self obsessive, selfish people, really.
I mean, I know that's not, you know, that's, that's not like a kind thing to say about these people that are out on the streets, but like, I was out on the streets and like, all you give a fuck about is yourself. And whenever I only give a fuck about myself, I end up laying in the gutter.
I mean, that's just's just what happens so like and i know that's really hard to say as a guy that like i literally wrote a book about my life like how self-obsessive could you get i mean that's as self-obsessive as you can get really but only great men write autobiography so don't don't yeah but but you know if you read the book it's basically me writing about how retarded i am yeah so it's like sure it's like it's about me, but it's about how much of a piece of shit I am really. So hopefully that like, there's a sense of humility around it.
You know, this episode is brought to you by max, the Emmy award winning series hacks returns this April. The new season follows Debra Vance, making a move from her Vegas residency to Hollywood showbizensions rise as Debra and Ava try to get their late night show off the ground and make history while doing it.
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And don't forget to check out the official Hacks podcast on Spotify. No, I think you did a great job.
And it really is. It's one of those things where it's like, you know, whether it's drug addiction or just like, you know, say you're not addicted to drugs, that same line of thought is just not as pronounced.
Cause it's like, if you know, if you're addicted to heroin and meth, it's like, yeah, you're crashing your car, you're going to jail. So like everyone's easily like, yep, you're fucking up.
But if you're running like a similar, you know, I think most people are very, very self, it's just the way we're designed it's not like a you know value or like a character flaw it's just the way we're kind of designed that i think kind of slowly erodes through a series of repeated and larger failures in life where it's like you know say you're like i didn't do like heroin or meth or anything but i've had definitely decisions blow up in my face that weren't like my whole family like god damn that guy needs to go away for a while but it was enough to be like for me to be like, well, that fucking all went up in smoke. And you're like, God damn it.
And you know, because there was that big master of the universe syndrome where you're like, I got to figure it out. Yeah.
Like when I would like sell weed and all this stuff, I would be like smoking weed all day, driving around like 30 pounds of weed in my trunk. Like, dude, I'm the master of the fucking.
And just like my relationships fell apart. I was like, I'm kind of a fucking loser.
I thought I was a man. Yeah.
So that can happen, man, when you're just kind of like, dude, I don't have to listen to anybody. I don't have to do anything anyone says.
And it's like, when you're young, it's very intoxicating to be in that. And then you're like, oh, there's this whole other part of life that has to go.
And like, you know, even if you don't want a family, it's like being involved in your community, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
If you get kind of like self-insulated, it's easy to have like the wheels come off. And it is a funny thing when you're like, I'm the boss here.
And it's just like your life just dilapidates and you're like, fuck. Yeah.
And every problem you like, this is a big thing. Like, you know, the guy that's like 45 that just like fucks his life up every year.
And it's always like someone else's fault. Yeah.
So like, that's a big thing about addiction and where it's like, you're just constantly blaming everyone. You're at the center of the universe and you're just blaming everyone around you for like all your problems.
So that's another thing with spirituality is like, I don't know, it just helped me like take like a, like almost like an overhead view of my life and just be like, hold on, you're like the common denominator of all this shit. Like potentially you are the cause of these problems.
Like you are responsible for these problems. And when you kind of like, are like, okay, well, it just goes back to like, okay, well then I'm not the, I'm not running the show.
I'm going to let someone else run the show. And like, you know, since I, you know, I was like a laborer on and off it, we either, I was homeless or I was like in a halfway house doing like construction for nine bucks an hour.
And, uh, you know, the second I kind of like started changing my life and living this way and having some faith you know like i have a career i have my family back i'm fucking doing a podcast like i mean it's just you know life really just starts to take off and right when i finally admitted like you are the piece of shit that is causing all these problems and like you have to have like a complete psychic change and uh you know i i don't think you know a lot of people that are hardcore drug addicts, like if they don't have that psychic change, like it's, it's not, it's not really, it's not really, if it's like, when are you going to go back to that life? Yeah. You know, you've got to change.
The blame's a big one. I've noticed that with people where they're like, dude, he's a fuck and you're like, that's your problem right now.
This dude's being a dickhead to you. Like I could name 25 other things, dude.
Yeah. Or like blaming the police.
Like I blame, I was i was so pissed at the like the police set me up i sold drugs to an undercover cop and like i got a felony and like i had to go to jail and it like kind of fucked like the next couple years of my life up and i was so fucking pissed at the police and then i got sober and i like kind of changed everything and i was like you sold drugs to a fucking you sold fake you stole tylenol from a cvs saidcos, sold them to a cop. Like you're retarded.
You shouldn't have done that. Kind of bunky.
I always thought if you sell fake drugs, you don't get in as much trouble. I think probably, but I'm like, I was like on hair.
I was like, get me out of here. Like I'll, I'll plead anything.
Like just get me out of here. And like, I had a public defender that was probably on methadone and he was like, yo, you're fucked, man.
Cause like a lot of people like drug addicts that have like rich family or like family that will support them like we'll get them that lawyer and which almost just kicks the can down the road you know so like i called my dad and he was like you know stay in jail like i was like can i get a can you get me a lawyer and he was like fuck no i'm not getting a lawyer and uh it'll be good for you to, yeah, just get, get like, you need to be contained.

Yeah.

And then actually like when I became homeless, like I was homeless, I did like a year run on Skid Row and I would like call my dad and he was like, go to fucking jail.

Like do whatever you can to go to jail.

Like you need to go to, like my dad went to jail.

That's how he like finally got sober.

So I got so blessed and, you know, got to fucking go to jail and, but jail did not like get me sober. Jail, Jill like physically removed me from heroin.
I never got physically addicted to heroin ever again, but I still like would relapse for like a few days here and there. And so like jail is not the ultimate solution, but it was like a kick in the ass and sort of like scared the fuck out of me.
Like, you know, I was around a lot of people where I was like, damn, you're going to like become, you're going to be like a jail guy. Yeah.
You'd be like a prison guy. And like, can you be a prison guy? like you're i was around a lot of people where i was like damn you're gonna like become you're gonna be like a jail guy yeah you'd be like a prison guy and like can you be a prison guy like you're not that big you're not that tough like yeah can you do it how bad does it hurt in prison of just like no babes at all that's the thing that would really fuck me up dude well i was on her it's a fair question well i was not really thinking about the babes well i was on heroin for so long so when you're on heroin you have like no you're like asexual like completely and then when you come off heroin you're like you like come in your pants like immediately really like if someone like blows in your direction like yeah so like you're so you get like ultra horny oh no which is like jail is like the worst place to be ultra horny so uh I mean it's fucking weird man it's like there's like a female guard once in a while that comes in you can smell her and everyone's like smelling you know everyone's like sniffing puts their nose up and like and then people get weird people start to get like really weird where they're like ah it's like you're not allowed to horseplay in there you're not allowed to do like any gay shit or like do any gay voices or anything like that or like fuck around but there's guys that have that like twinkle in their eye that would kill me bro i can't be like so fucking gay for you bro well that's like like the white obviously white guy humor is like let's pretend we're gay yeah and like mexicans run the jail so they're just like no gay shit like so you have to be like the white guys are like none of that gay shit like in front of like we got to impress the mexicans obviously like like obviously we want we all want to like do the gay voice like we're in fucking jail with a bunch of guys like and and but like the mexicans will call us gay like we can't do that yeah it's a trouble yeah and like obviously the black guys are like no gay like yeah they're like number one like you know no gay shit for sure and uh so it's really sucks for white guys in there you can't fuck around and pretend to be gay at all you can't fuck around and you can't you know you know you can't take the towel and like never speed ever again i never thought about that it's really hard on white guys in there man it's so funny to have like some dude just covering his swastikers like and lastly we can't fuck around about gay stuff yeah and it's like clearly and then occasionally you do have like your all all white meeting in the shower area where it's like all white guys and it's like you can let off some steam and like pretend you're gay for like 10 seconds but uh it is it is funny because like the mexicans just run everything and the white guys are are allied with the mexicans so it's like we cannot if we lose this ally ship like we are fucked so like we have to so the mexicans like you guys got to work out every day for an hour so it's every day there's like white guys like half-assedly like doing jumping jacks and like making sure the mexicans are like watching you're like i'm you know i'm doing them are they pumping iron pretty hard there in the jail no uh no but they're like lifting each other which is kind of gay you know they're like yeah if there's like a tiny mexican guy it's like okay obviously he's like for biceps, you know, and like you have to like use weird shit.

You like get under the bunk bed and you're like you can do like bench with like a like look at like two mexican guys on the bunk bed and then you're like doing like okay throw another mexican guy on there and you're like yeah he's gotta yeah you gotta squat danny trejo yeah exactly so you get really creative you get like bat sometimes you get a trash You fill it up with water. You can do like curls with them.
Yeah. So is it? What is like when the Mexican guy's being bicep curled? Does he have like a straight face? Like, yeah, because he's looking like hard as fuck.
Yeah. You have to look super hard.
Curled. You got a fucking problem with me? Yeah.
No, there's a lot. There's a lot of like get on my back and like I'm going to do squats.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, like um yeah there's a lot for for a place where you're not allowed to pretend to be gay there's like a lot of gay shit going on and um and obviously like you're jerking off in a room with like 100 guys yeah at some point and uh you're not allowed to jerk off um like but it's kind of a donut it's like don't ask don't tell situation so you gotta be a gentleman about it Don't be like, like a guy did, like a guy used to buy heroin from who I actually,

which, have a donut it's like don't ask don't tell situation so you gotta be a gentleman about it don't be like yeah like a guy did like a guy used to buy heroin from who i actually was in he came into the jail and i was like what's up man and i was like do you have any heroin and he was like no i'm you know i'm in jail but he got caught jerking off he was like a seven-year-old black dude super cool guy but uh they rolled him up they were like no jerking off you know he was he did it he tried to be polite he did it like 5 a.m but like the early birds woke up and they caught him up. They were like, no jerking off.
You know? He was, he did it. He tried to be polite.
He did it at like 5 a.m. But like the early birds woke up and they caught him jerking off.
So. Fuck, that sucks.
I'd rather be caught by my parents a hundred times than have, be in jail and have, he was like, you're jerking off, motherfucker. No, I did it.
It's like the scariest. And obviously, you know, you've jerked off before.
You realize like, you know, when you're a kid and like, you're like, you're listening for your brothers and sisters and shit. And you're like, so this is like scarier.
Cause if someone hears you, like they could stab you, you know? Oh my God. Not really.
I mean, everyone knows like you got to do it. So you just do it in the middle of the night when you wake up and like no one really, you know, but every night if you ever wake up, you hear like the jingle of like many men quietly masturbating.
It's like the roar of the ocean. Yeah, exactly.
And it kind of like puts, yeah, it helps you sleep and everything. That's crazy, dude.
I never thought about that aspect of it. I mean, obviously, you know, I figured, I thought you could just like hang your sheets over your bed and be like, I'm about to jerk off, bro.
No, because there's like a man on your bunk, you know? So unless you have like an arrangement with him or something, you know, I don't, listen, I'm not Mr. Prison.
I'm not Mr. Jail.
Like I've been to jail. Like it could be different in other dorms, but like, no, my dorm, like it was kind of like a, you can't even show your dick unless you're in the shower.
Like if you got, that was like an instant boo bop. Like if you, like if your dick popped out like in the dorm or if you like talked about dicks or just like, you know, you just, but in the shower, obviously you're all naked.
You're showering together, looking at everyone's dicks. You can do whatever.
Yeah. Yeah.
No talking dicks, bro. No, no.
You can't talk about dicks because. What do you do with morning wood in jail? Oh my God.
It's just like, yeah, man, it's tough. You gotta lay there.
You gotta just lay there, you know? And sometimes you gotta, it's like, cause I was in the school dorm where I got to go to school. So like, like, I guess I'm going to be late to school, you know? Cause I can't have someone look, see my, see my dick.
Yeah. If you had my heart.
Yeah. So.
Bro. The fuck, bro.
Yeah. And, uh.
Fucking boner away. And then like meth will come in sometimes, which like makes everyone horny and, and gay to be honest.
So like that, that becomes pretty tough. Cause like people are tweaked out and you know, damn.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's one of those things. It's a, that is tough.
I do understand going there and getting clean, but yeah, I think you're right. There is an extra layer and there, I feel like there could be, correct me if I'm wrong.
I feel like there could be a more nuanced approach in jail. Once you have those guys as a captive audience, like how's the programming? Cause I know there's like tc like therapeutic community and all that stuff yeah did you have that when you're in there well there's like aa meetings that come in and we had actually had like meditation classes but you go there and like half the guys like are think it's like gay they're like this is gay and then they like make noises and shit while you're trying to meditate and there's like i was like trying to do noises they make you You know, like kumbaya and like mocking.
A lady came into jail to teach a bunch of guys that like might murder her yoga and like meditation and like you're fucking being an asshole. And they're like, go.
Yeah. So like, I mean, listen, there's a lot of low IQ people in jail.
True, yeah. But yeah, like obviously there could be a better approach.
I was in there. Probably 99% of the people I interacted with were either drug addicts or alcoholics this is not a good system this is not working like clearly this is a drug problem even like the violent criminals it's like a lot of them were just on meth or or like drunk and like beat the shit out of their wife or something so you know there's like foundational issues of mostly like addiction and alcoholism so like yeah we should address and that doesn't mean like hey you shot a guy in the head because and you were on meth like for sure we're gonna put you into a therapeutic program like you know if you're violent you gotta probably do some time but like you know there should be i was really surprised because like one day they just let you out and it's like what the fuck do you think i'm gonna do yeah i'm just out now like and it's like right by skid row and they let you out at like 2 a.m and uh you know of course i'm gonna I'm going to go do heroin and smoke crack, you know.
So like it, of course, there's like there has to be a better approach. But like, you know, there was like the 2020 stuff where like the decriminalization of crime basically and like that's not working, you know, just being like we're just not going to send people to jail for like doing violent crime.
Like that's not really a good approach. So they're walking that back pretty hard right now.
That's just, we're hitting like Bill Clinton, like tough on crime Democrats are in our near future. Yeah.
At the DNC, they were like, Kamala was a tough prosecutor and Kamala was a tough prosecutor. Like I'm from Oakland, California, like where she was, you know, she was the DA of San Francisco and she was fucking too hard.
I mean, she was like sending parents to jail for like if their kids miss school and shit. Damn.
Yeah, she was hard, man. But clearly, like they're doing this like really quick 180 like this bitch will put you in jail, like vote for her.
And like, I don't think it's going to work. I mean, we see what's going on.
Like, I don't you can't do that quick of a 180 on that shit. But yeah, well, no, she was chill.
She did. She was hard.
I think then she was like, I'm going to chill. Yeah, then she got she got really chill i guess but now she might flip back and be like look well i can slam the gavel like i don't think she has like a creed or like a you know she just it was really hot at the time to like be super hard ass you know tough on crime like you know the 90s uh the clinton you know the clinton crime bill and all that so she just was kind of going with the times and then the times changed, you know, and then it goes to like, okay,

I'm going to bail people out

for like burning down Minneapolis.

So I actually, you know, I know you were in Portland.

I actually moved to Portland in June, 2020.

Oh God.

Not a great month to move to Portland.

Yeah, what happened?

Because I kept thinking that Chaz was in Portland.

That's Seattle.

That was Seattle.

Kind of fucked me up.

That was my whole five minutes opening and coming out.

I was like, I'm going to make fun of these guys for having like lesbians take control of their city for six months well no chas was like all of downtown portland and i had a black girlfriend oh so they set it up like that yeah and i went there with a black girlfriend not a weird month to move there with a black girlfriend to portland and her dad was like don't i don't you can't take my daughter. Like, I don't want her around all those crazy white people burning down the city.
It was, it was a crazy time, but Portland's cool, man. I liked it.
So you went there though. And it was like, cause people now are like, damn, is it like still fucked up? And I was like, no, no, it was fine.
It was fine. But it was like, it was as intense as the jazz there in 2020.
It was fucking intense. It was intense.
Like spiritually, like everyone was just like just like i was running into people i like left because there was too many like guys that like dressed like security guards that were like i'm they them like you got to call me they and i was like you look like a a dude you know like it's really hard for me to do that there was just a lot of like it was just really hard like that and like you know i i people were just not chill at all and it got it went super far and then now there's kind of like an overcorrection uh and it's kind of chill now i think people and honestly like you guys play a big role and i'm not you know i appreciate i mean like i don't want to sound insane right now but like you know podcasts like yours like you guys kind of like brought about this like spiritual awakening of like, hey, we just have to like, we can say retarded. Like we can, you know, we can be cool, you know? And I think comedy really is like saving America.
This is going to sound stupid, but like. I appreciate that, man.
Well, the problem I saw with a lot of this stuff was like, you're at college, you're trying to get pussy. Exactly.
See, girls are like on this wild shit of like you know pretty much they're doing it for instagram and it's like you know maybe they genuinely but i shouldn't say like it's all fake but it's like they're doing a thing to appease some other force this is a giant force in your life and you're like yeah i'm a fucking they them and it's like i'm trying to get some fucking pussy i'm not trying to get frozen out or labeled as like you're like a boomer or whatever people say no everything comes down to i'm trying to get pussy because i've've realized that in my head like every decision i've ever like if there was no pussy like i wouldn't shower like i i would i would shower once a week or something you know like there's just every decision that a man makes really comes down to that so like yeah there was just a lot of that and there was a lot of like even when like you know like when your guys i was listening to your podcast and i was like can i even tell people that i'm listening to this shit like after the shane shit and then now it's like to to get pussy. You're like, I listened to the Matt and Shane podcast.
There's girls, the girlfriends have come and wives are coming to our shows. Yeah.
Yeah. There was a weird, that was a weird thing.
I think, I don't know what it was, man. Cause everyone thought they were doing like the right thing.
They're like, yeah, I'm on the right side of history now. And it's like the one thing I will give the like wild ass SJWs from, you know, they did all that stuff for a long time.
They did, you know, and you can, you can hate this, but they did raise a lot of issues into the public consciousness. Yeah.
They kind of really like cracked everyone's head open with a hammer and they're like, think about this. And everyone's like, fuck you guys.
I'm not thinking about this. So they did do, you know, if you look back at like the last few years, it's like people are a lot more kind of like, the average person is way more forward thinking

than they were, you know, in like the 90s

and, you know, early 2000s.

So they did put a lot of like, you know,

things into people's heads.

Like, you know, if you're black,

it's like kind of weird and way different

than being white.

And you're like, shut up and get a job.

You're like, it's like that now people have,

I think from all that stuff,

have a more kind of nuanced approach to reality

with like social issues.

Yeah.

But they're like, what they say to do about it their solutions are so bad their solutions are really bad and really hurting the people they're trying to help certainly like listen it's really good that we're thinking about these things and and uh you know i kind of already did because i'd been to jail and i was noticing patterns i was like damn like you know i went to jail for like five days when i sold that Percocet, uh, to the cop or whatever. And my friend Toning Taylor named Toning, very odd name, but I was in a midnight mission with him.
He did like five years for like the same shit. And he was a black guy.
I was like, God damn. Like, and he was like, what? And he was, he was a black Israelite dude.
So he liked me cause I'm half Jewish. And, uh, you know, we talk, we talk, we'd had Jew talk, you know.
And I was like, damn, he really opened my eyes to some shit. I was like, God damn, man.
Yeah, they get crushed. Black dudes get crushed in jail pretty hard.
Yeah, so I was, so it wasn't a good time. But it's harder for us once we get there, because we can't do gay stuff, so.
It's kind of the inverse of, yeah, inverse of real life. Yeah.
No, dude, my friend was in a, one of those, like, kind of, I don't know, I've never seen anything like this, but it wasn't. So it was technically that part of it was a halfway house.
The other part were for repeat offenders, people who violated parole. It was just this giant warehouse in Philly, and you would just go to this warehouse and just live in these rooms of 40 dudes.
And it was technically a jail, but it wasn't any, you didn't go to the penitentiary. It was just like this holding thing specifically for parole violators if they had to do like six months or something yeah and he said it was run the whole place was just run by like there was uh there's like these black muslim ladies in charge of it and he was like dude for real i don't want to cry racism but he's like it's so hard to be white in this place he's like you just like you could just like i could bring him in clothes and stuff i could bring him in all this stuff.
I had to give it to a, like in a trash bag to this black Muslim lady.

She would go through it.

And he was like, dude, the drugs here are rampant.

Cause you can just stitch heroin into like the waistband of sweatpants.

And they, they're just like, they're just running amok in here where it's like, there's

drugs are being filled.

Everyone's just making money off this place.

Yeah.

But he was like, and then you just get sent here against your will.

He's like, you're trying to get clean.

He's like, it's just party time.

Yeah. So black Muslim ladies seem to run the Philly airport.
Yeah. I was at the Philly airport like a week ago.
Yeah, they got a nice stronghold. No, but they were killing it.
They like got me a refund on my flight and shit. Yeah.
Dude, they're fucking sweet. It's funny.
Yeah, yeah. Because if you're like a white dude just kicking around, I always assume like black Muslim ladies don't like white people.
You just, you see the gear and you're like, I could see them not being a huge fan of me yeah but yeah when you get to know them they're very sweet yeah they're chill they're very cool yeah yeah another thing about the whole like awakening thing was like my felony there was some real criminal justice reform where like i i actually am not a felon anymore oh that's cool like they kind of did you know and that makes sense like that's good like hey i've behaved for seven years like it can we get rid of the felony seven years is a good number too. Yeah, like can I, that's cool.
So like they kind of did, you know, and that makes sense. Like, that's good.
Like, Hey, I've behaved for seven years. Like, can we get rid of the felony? Seven years is a good number too.
Yeah. Like, can I, it's a Jubilee.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
It's a Jewish Jubilee. Yeah.
So I was like, you know, can I get a job at Walmart finally? Like I, you know, can I not be a felon? And, uh, so good shit like that happened. But then there was like criminal justice reform went like a little too far where it was like, you can just like bonk ladies on the head with like a bat and not go to jail.
Like that's not good, you know. Well, no one wanted to be the guy locking people up.
It wasn't like politically good. Not politically good.
But I guess now it is. It's because now you can become the big like hero.
Because before we had a, we had a guy, who the fuck was he? Larry Krasner, the DA in Philly. And he was like.
Bad. Yeah.
They were called him Let Him Go Larry. That Go Larry.
And I knew, like back then, I was like, I knew dudes

were like selling weed and stuff. He's like, oh, let him go Larry.

That's the dude. We love Larry Krasner.

I'm like, it's the wrong guys being like, this guy rules.

But yeah, it's like

it becomes, like if you're a DA

and you have political aspirations and it becomes

like not politically cool

to lock people up, you're like, let's just not

lock people up for now. And the city

completely goes into disarray because you kind of

maybe want to become like a congressperson.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, you can't really, you know,

We'll see you next time. to lock people up, you're like, let's just not lock people up for now.
And the city completely goes into disarray because you kind of maybe want to become like a Congress person. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like, yeah, you can't really, you know, people out here doing, that's the thing.
Isn't it like in jail, it's like 90% of the crimes are committed by like literally like 5% of the population across like race and all that stuff. Yeah.
They say that. Yeah.
And shoplifting especially. Yeah.
Yeah. So it's like, yeah, snatch these people up.
And if they're on drugs, it's like's like okay let's figure out a situation where we maybe mandate them to a long-term treatment center but we have to like really like look at this like hey we're not just like trying to like check boxes here like we're really trying to like change this person's life and like give them a life worth living and like we should really like i needed purpose you know like i need like i was a finished carpenter so like i eventually like got out and like, I had like a job that not only paid like a decent wage, but it gave me fulfillment. And I was like, I'm building things.
I'm helping people. I'm like making beautiful, you know, I'm making houses beautiful and all that.
Like we need to like find what people are passionate about, what they can excel at and like really set them up for a life where it's like, Hey, you can afford a one bedroom apartment right out of here. Like you, you can feel feel good about it.
It's like you're not just going to go get a job at Chipotle and want to kill yourself. And then, like, you know, so we just have to really, I mean, this is, like, a spiritual problem that is plaguing America.
Like, if you go to any city, like, I live in Oakland, California, and it's, like, you know, it's totally fucked up. Yeah, I agree.
And it is sad, too, when you take all these people in jail, and it's scary, they all like tattoos and, like. But I do believe at the root of it, it's just like there was a what they were once a kid in a very loveless environment.
And obviously, like there's there's that's like a continuum. Obviously, there's some people who got it, but it was there's like other bad stuff mixed in.
But then there's people who like just never, ever in their life had like anybody care about them at all. Yeah.
And that's like, you're, that's, I think that's the real root issue when you're dealing with people like you know jail anything really yeah it's like dude how the fuck and you're gonna try to correct that in like an environment that you know you obviously need to like take precautions for society but it's really sad it's one of those things it's like very very sad and i think there is uh hopefully we'll figure it out hopefully we'll figure out a way because you can't go to kumbaya and be like just give them a guitar guitar and send them out there. So you just bang someone in the head with a hammer and you're like, God damn it.
Yeah. But we're like, we're doing this thing where like, we're just giving people like apartments in San Francisco and then they're on fentanyl.
So they just die in their apartment immediately. So it's like, we can't really do that.
I understand the argument, like homeless, what's the solution home? Like give them home, you know? And it's like, okay, but if you're addicted to fentanyl, you're just going to like be alone gonna like be alone and od on fentanyl so yeah man there has to be like a more comprehensive approach and like you know people are like oh it's gonna cost so much money and it's like we're like san francisco spends over a billion dollars a year on homelessness and it's just gotten worse and worse and worse yeah so it's like i don't think money's the issue like we have the money we just have to like redirect it into a way that is actually productive. But it's right now it's so set up to just like, you can just launder so much money if you start a nonprofit, you know, it's so easy to start a nonprofit.
It's like, I hand out crack pipes, give me, you know, a $2 million contract. It's, you know, you just have to rethink all this.
Nonprofits are, I didn't realize how, because I, I worked at one before when I was in social work school and I was like, this is like, and it wasn't like out and out, like a total scam, but it was kind of like, dude, you guys can tighten this thing up. It becomes incentivized to be like, just have someone show up, sign a box.
It's like, yeah, but you could have like five appointments and one to make this guy's life easier. And like, well, you got 200 bucks every time.
You dirty motherfucker. Yeah.
But it's, uh, yeah, I don't know. I've remained hopeful.
I think, I think something will happen, but it is weird. This is the most, is this had? I'd imagine.
Historically? Because I know there was always homeless people, but now it's like you get out of cities and you're like, dude, this is – it's like younger people just hit the rails, dude. And it's like you see guys in like the 30s or 20s and you're like, bro, like what the fuck, man? Yeah.
I think there is something to it, man. There's that, spiritual malaise where it's like there's no point to anything.

What's the point?

I'm never going to be, you know, X, Y, and Z.

And, like, nobody has that.

It's hard to find, like, the joy in a, like, you know, a relatively simple life.

Like you were saying, like, I'm doing – I can go.

I can take pride in my work.

I can do my thing.

Now there's just – it's just, like, everyone's so atomized.

It's not like, oh, I'm part of a nice community.

I'm part of – everything's just off on, like, their own individual journey that, you know, typically when you're just by yourself, it just leads to like intense frustration and despair anyway. Yeah.
Yeah. There's a lack of hope.
Yeah. What's this? Oh yeah.
It rose 12% from 2022 to 2023. That's a, that's pretty bad, right? That's pretty bad.
That's a gigantic leap. It rose 64% in San Francisco from the year 2016 to 2022.
And at the same time, spending on homelessness increased by 500%.

Yeah, it's crazy, man.

Like, you know, and there's no hope.

You know, it's like we live in a time when it's like you can work really hard.

You can get that raise.

You can get that promotion.

And it's like, you're still not buying a house.

Like, you can't start a family.

People aren't getting married.

People aren't having kids.

Like, yeah, it's tough.

Hopefully we come out of this. Hopefully whoever wins the presidency, either one of them just makes this shit better.
You know, will they do it? Probably not. Yeah, definitely.
But we don't see. Definitely.
Definitely. I tell everyone buy, buy your book.
Your book's awesome, dude. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The book's a good smile.
If you can't afford it, hit me up. I'll send you a copy or I'll send you like a PDF.
I am not a big reader. I know that's a surprise.
I wrote a book, but I can't read. If you can't read, you're looking for the audio book.
It's not here yet, but if you buy a copy of the book, it will encourage my publisher to push for the audio book. And then I'll like send you a link to the audio book for free.
If you show me that you bought the book. So the publisher is weary about doing the audio book.
They aren't weary't weary it's just like it's a different like legal setup with the contract and it's just going to take time i don't know but like this will if it does good sales they'll push for it faster and then like i'll send you like a lime wire link to the fucking audiobook or so you know i'll figure it out but uh yeah we're gonna try we're gonna try to push that through quickly nice man yeah yeah tell them to knock it off tell them let's do it like dude just give do it. Be like, dude, just give me a recording time.
You can record it in like 20 hours, man.

I know.

I know.

Yeah.

I could just, yeah, but it's like, it's just a different, you know, it's legal agent shit.

You know, I don't know.

Who knows?

Well, dude, thank you so much for coming to us.

It's an honor, man.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it. Yeah.
it