Ep 512 - White Prisoner's Dilemma (feat. Jared Klickstein)

Speaker 1 Wow, wow, Wes.

Speaker 1 We're live, Jared Clickstein. What the fuck's up, dude?

Speaker 2 Thank you for having me. Total honor.

Speaker 1 Dude, thanks for coming to do this. Of course.
I was hyping your book up on that, on the Patreon, too. I never really talked about it on the regular one, I don't think.

Speaker 2 No, I appreciate it. It changed.

Speaker 1 It changed everything. Yeah.
Dude, that shit was unbelievable. Thank you.
Glad you're alive. I'm glad I was, you sent me the thing and I'm like, all right, I started like, I read a sample chapter.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh, this is fucking, I've always wanted, for people who don't know,

Speaker 1 you've, you basically lived for a time, a period on Skid Row. Yeah.
And that's not, the whole story is like, you know, how you got there, how you started off, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 But Jesus Christ, what a, for my like perverted, voyeuristic brain, I was like, I can actually like get some boots on the ground account of that.

Speaker 1 Because you just drive by and you're like, Jesus Christ. so that for me was very satisfying which you know i'm sure it's like thanks dickhead

Speaker 2 i really was always curious what that was like well everyone's curious i mean everyone sees skid row everyone sees these homeless junkies and like one finally made it out and is like can read words and write words and stuff that's a big one

Speaker 2 that's a big one so uh yeah so i wrote it and uh and i try to make it funny because a lot of people write these like drug memoirs and they're really you know like hunter biden's memoir is probably not funny no and i don't unless you're against the bidens you know

Speaker 1 well of course actually he doesn't he does a good job at swaying people i'm like yeah joe biden is a good yeah maybe he is i don't know maybe he is i but it was yeah it wasn't funny hunters was not oh you read it yeah i read hunters okay i'm on a big autobiography kick man i read them all although i i feel like and you know forgive me but i think there could have been aspects could have been aspects of uh his that might have been politically pressured to kind of like paint a certain light oh i'm sure i'm sure he didn't write it either that's another big

Speaker 2 yeah so i i wrote it. Oh, no, he didn't.

Speaker 1 He was pretty productive, man. Yeah, he was blasting.
He was just ripping crack. He could have just.

Speaker 1 He could have, yeah.

Speaker 2 What's crazy is I was just in Boston and I like went through all my personal stuff and I found all my dad's shit because my dad was a crackhead. And

Speaker 2 I got taken away when I was 12. And then he just went like full Hunter Biden.
He got these camcorders and I have like 20 hours of footage.

Speaker 2 No dicks or anything. Or not, not yet.
I've only watched like two hours.

Speaker 1 What's his footage? So it's non-sex tapes. It's just him.

Speaker 2 It's like him and my mom like smoking crack and like being paranoid and like him doing drug deals and like setting up the camera on his like little

Speaker 2 four tours because he's paranoid true and it's like him like filming his closet and he's like the cia has like

Speaker 2 summoned a demon to live in my closet it's like really crazy how many hours of this footage do you have i have like 20 tapes yeah damn so that'll probably be the subject of like the next book or like a documentary i was about to say that would be a wild doc

Speaker 1 damn maybe he was just reviewing the tapes trying to get better at drug dealing be like ah i could have been been a little more careful right there in that parking lot.

Speaker 2 Well, I think he was just really paranoid and was filming everything. And I think crack does make you voyeuristic or it makes you start filming for some reason.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but this is like 2001, like with a camcorder.

Speaker 1 I could see that. If you wake up, you're like, damn, last night was a movie, dude.
I got to record the next one.

Speaker 2 And he's like learning how to edit. It was like editing on the camera, like doing swipes and stuff.
So it's like him smoking crack, and then there's just like a swipe of a picture of a crack pipe.

Speaker 2 He's like doing like iMovie shit from 2001.

Speaker 1 So you're going to go through all that footage.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go through all. Yeah, I went through like two hours of it already.

Speaker 1 Damn, what was that like? That must have been kind of charged.

Speaker 2 I mean, I know I'm laughing and I know this is a comedy podcast, you know, but yeah, it's dark. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's fucking dark. Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Yeah.
That would, yeah. Yeah.
Right. Did you submit for America's Funny Sun Videos? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 1 your dad, your dad passed or recently said, my dad passed.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Not from crack.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He cleaned up.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But thank you.

Speaker 1 yeah, RIP.

Speaker 2 So, this is a weird way to be introduced to my dad, but yeah, and I hope there's no dicks or any like, I'm just praying that there's no like sexual stuff, but yeah, you can blur him, he wasn't like that, you can blur him for the doctor, yeah,

Speaker 1 it's that's that would be that would be pretty rugged, dude.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's also a uh, I don't know, there is something heart, it's your parents, you know, it's your dad, so there's something like heartwarming about watching it, but it is yeah, it's utterly twisted.

Speaker 2 Well, what's really fucked up is like, I remember them on drugs, so seeing them on drugs is like heartwarming, yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah it's very up

Speaker 1 you know it's good footage that is that would be a pretty stellar doc yeah hbo if you're listening you know and if there's any part of you that's like is it right it's like dude i always say yes yeah they owe it to you yeah they he recorded the crack footage don't waste it being like should i really put them out there like that i would say yes not in a bad way but it's like no no no it's a it's their story to tell yeah exactly if i was doing that and my kids had all that footage i'd be like yeah dude yeah you can do anything with this please no and it shows them in like a pretty good light i mean they're good people they were good people you know so like they're like having conversations and talking about cool and and like you know dragons living in the closet and all that so

Speaker 2 so it is funny it is dark but uh

Speaker 1 you know unfortunately that's all the footage i have of them really yeah damn yeah i mean most to be fair most people don't have any i have no videos really of my parents so I know you don't really think about that.

Speaker 2 So fortunately, they were crackheads and got really into camcorders.

Speaker 1 That's pretty sick, dude. I might hire a camera crew, a full-time camera crew with my parents now, catch their final

Speaker 1 year, just turn their whole life into a reality show against their will. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, I filmed my dad recently, like right before he died, he like told a story because he did Yo-Yo Ma's kitchen and like all his finished carpentry or like finished cabinetry and all that.

Speaker 2 And he was like stealing OxyContin from Yo-Yo Ma.

Speaker 1 Who's Yo-Yo Ma?

Speaker 2 He was a cellist.

Speaker 2 Celloist. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Who was on Oxys?

Speaker 2 I think he is a legitimate guy that got like a back surgery.

Speaker 1 I believe that.

Speaker 2 But my dad did not, you know, he was just stealing it.

Speaker 1 Doing his kitchen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he told the story. It was pretty funny.

Speaker 1 That's really funny, actually.

Speaker 1 How did the kitchen turn out?

Speaker 2 Really good. My dad was a great carpenter.
He did John Kerry's desk and office, and John Kerry tried to not pay him.

Speaker 1 What? Yeah, John Kerry. Senator John Kerry?

Speaker 2 Senator John Kerry has it. Yeah, apparently he had an issue with paying people.
What? Yeah, they wrote about it in the Boston Globe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Damn. I never heard.
You heard it here first, dude. I never

Speaker 1 but heard it here second, dude. That's crazy.
Yeah. So he tried to stiff.
How much did you try to stiff your dad for?

Speaker 2 Oh, I don't know how much, but, but my dad went, went, you know, he was like a senator in Boston. And then, and then I guess he went to D.C.
at some point. And my dad went down to D.C.

Speaker 2 and like did his office down there.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. Yeah.
And he was like, thanks, dickhead.

Speaker 1 That's brutal, dude. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That sucks. So, so that was like your whole start was just you grew up just, it was pretty, it was kind of nuts.

Speaker 1 Like, I remember you described it as like, it was nuts, but as a a little kid, you would just watch your parents just kind of off the rails and be like, Man, they're just uh, they're a little stressed.

Speaker 1 Like, you eventually learned. It was a funny part of that book.
It was like, I thought they were smoking weed. And I was like, Holy shit, dude.

Speaker 2 Well, that's what's cool about the uh, like the tapes that I have because my dad would make his own crack pipes, and he would, and they look like little like bongs, you know.

Speaker 2 So, I would just find these bongs, and I just thought my parents were smoking weed. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I saw half half baked came out, and I was like, Oh, my parents are just, you know, they just weight, they just weigh 90 pounds and they smoke wheat.

Speaker 1 They must not be getting the munchies enough. Yeah, that is, that is pretty.
There was parts of that book, literally, I would just start crying. I brought it to Denver with me.

Speaker 1 I read it like, I like started reading it on the plane. I'm like, Jesus Christ, it's so engrossing.
You get so engrossed in it. And then I was like, I'll get back from shows and just.

Speaker 1 read it for like hours. And I ripped through it in like pretty much a weekend.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, thank you, man. I mean, I'm not like, obviously, I've like have holes in my brain and I've like killed a lot of brain cells.
So it's an easy read.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm not like, I'm not Shakespeare or anything, but but i'm no old english in there at all no old english relieving

Speaker 1 but i appreciate i'm sure you get hit up by a lot of people with like here's a picture i drew or whatever here's a book i wrote you know thank you for reading it dude it was awesome thank you it was genuinely really uh and then it's so and you've you've been on fox i think a couple times or maybe what else you've been on the news yeah and you're like giving like the takes on like homelessness which i thought that was kind of cool too i didn't know yeah because you came out of that i'm sure people would love to have you like see we need more funds and you're like actually well fox loves me because

Speaker 2 if any opportunity to shit on California, like they'll take you on. So they took me on like immediately.
And I'm like pretty apolitical. But

Speaker 2 and everyone was like, don't go on Fox. Like it's going to fuck your life up.

Speaker 2 Fuck Fox and all that. And I was like, no, I'm going to go on Fox.
And I did it. And it got me a book deal.
And it actually reunited me with my aunt and uncle. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 Because they thought I was just still a crackhead.

Speaker 1 What? You know, like five years ago.

Speaker 2 So they saw me on the news.

Speaker 1 They saw you on the Winners Network, obviously. Fox.
Like, damn, dude, he's fucking winning right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, they don't, actually, they're kind of like, they don't like Fox, but like a relative was like, yo, Jared's on Fox. And they saw me and they're like, oh, shit, he's probably not smoking crack.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they have to watch it and be like, huh. Yeah.
This is pretty good. Yeah, that, I mean, it is a, that was a cool thing you did in the book where it's like, you know, here's my story.

Speaker 1 And then it's like, by the way, and I think you did this pretty good where it wasn't like, because you could have like went full court press, like, here's my takes on policy, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 It would just get like tossed in, peppered in. You'd be like, yeah, that's a fair point.
Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 Your, your whole idea is that, like, definitely we should help homeless people, but like, let's kind of build accountability in there.

Speaker 1 If you're just kind of like putting people up for free or just like showering people and resources and not dealing with the inner issue,

Speaker 1 you're killing them because they're just going to keep getting high and die.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like a house is burning down and like instead of spraying it with water, you're like, here's like medicine to like deal with your burns.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, like we have to kind of address the key, like the foundational issue of addiction. And listen, there's a lot of homeless people that aren't addicted.

Speaker 2 Obviously, you know, some of them are just mentally ill permanently. A lot of those people that are mentally ill, like I was mentally ill, like I was screaming in like a McDonald's dining area.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, I was like yelling at people and throwing shit. That feel good?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've always wanted to get home.

Speaker 2 It kind of does because when you're home, it's crazy because when you become homeless, you're like, I'm not, I'm like jaywalking. It like starts with jaywalking.

Speaker 2 And then you're like, I'm going to like deliberately walk in front of cars.

Speaker 1 Dude, I always wondered about that. So you start being like, fuck these cars.

Speaker 2 I'm going. And then you're like, I'm going to litter.
And then you're like, I'm going to like knock over a trash can.

Speaker 2 And it just like escalates. And it's like, I'm going to throw shit at people in a McDonald's.

Speaker 2 And then it's like, I'm going to rob people.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I might as well put all this energy to good use.

Speaker 2 And then, yeah, it does escalate because going to jail is like.

Speaker 2 It's basically like a sleepover. It's like, oh shit, I get to like chill for like three days.
So going to jail is like not a punishment.

Speaker 2 It's like, oh shit, I'm going to get a pillow and like a shower.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So you're like, yeah, I'll throw shit at people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. I'm going to fuck this lady up.
Yeah. Yeah.
I saw a guy recently.

Speaker 1 Whatchamacallit? Jesus Christ. I'm blanking on where I was.
This is bad. I was in Portland, Oregon, and they have a lot of homeless people there.
Oh, yeah, yeah. This weekend.
And there was this guy.

Speaker 1 Me and Nate Marshall were walking. And this guy, he like just, he was kind of drunk.
He was like, oh, what are you guys, homies? And I was like. Yeah, actually we are.

Speaker 1 And I was like, maybe he's just being friendly. I couldn't really tell.
And then I come back and he was just getting in homeless people's faces and being like, whatcha up, dude?

Speaker 1 And like shoulder bumping him. I'm like, dude, you're going to get fucking stabbed, dude.
I was waiting for it. I'm like, please fucking bash this guy's head in.

Speaker 1 Because that was the thing, too. Like,

Speaker 1 I didn't realize how hard everyone was rumbling in this.

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously I knew there was like bad stuff going on, but you were saying like you'd sleep with like a pipe between your legs, people would come in your setup and you got to just fucking

Speaker 1 that shit. I was like, I mean, it makes sense, obviously, but I was always like, yeah, I think people are maybe just chilling a little more peaceful.
I didn't realize it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 People were pretty angry.

Speaker 2 Because you have nothing to lose.

Speaker 2 When you have nothing to lose you're willing to lose your life because your life isn't worth that much so and i'm like you know i'm like not big i'm like a white guy i i like look you know i look the way i look but uh you know i i looked like i was like 16 until i was like 30.

Speaker 1 yeah you know so i looked like a kid same and then i looked like i was 75 very fast i skipped like three three decades of aging and now i went from like looking like i was like 27 to looking like i was like 55.

Speaker 2 yeah well i look forward to hitting that relatively soon but uh yeah so like i looked like a bitch basically i mean i'm not hard you know so um yeah people tried to with me and like you know being white on skid row is unlike everything else in life it's it's a detriment yeah

Speaker 2 so uh you know it wasn't that cool but but people were almost like flabbergast they're like what is this like suburban white boy

Speaker 2 they were like kind of respected it yeah they're like holy fuck man this like clean-cut white kid is is like doing it on skid row so and it was probably came in handy like you're i was reading that like that's kind of nice where you're able able to like use your kind of appearance to it just helped you yeah like i went to college i can talk so like people were like oh shit we could keep this kid around and like talk to the police for us or whatever and i was really good at stealing because of it yeah you know if you're like a mexican guy with tattoos all over your face it's it's not easy to like go steal shit yeah trying to live toothface is not easy yeah yeah

Speaker 2 at least 10 years ago true yeah now it's all locked up i guess yeah yeah so that kind of fucked everything up like i was doing it back in the day when they weren't locking everything up and i I was like pretty good.

Speaker 2 I had like a pretty good system. And I made more money than I do now, like working a job.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you were saying when you were shoplifting, it was a couple thousand like a day pretty much.

Speaker 2 No, like a couple thousand a week on taxed. Yeah.
You know, sweet. So like the same that you would make it like a job now.

Speaker 1 Same, it's, or it's a shame you missed a self-checkout. I know.
I had no excuse. I was of a relatively sober mind and I pillaged those things pretty hard in the beginning.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't even for like a lust for stuff. I was just kind of like, it was more of like a game where I'd be like, is anyone here actually paying attention to this? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it turned out, no, not really at all. No.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I've since obviously given that up. But the,

Speaker 1 yeah, remember that part of the book where you had a guy who would serve as decoy and then you would just slip into the side and just, cause he was, I guess everyone was like, oh, this motherfucker is going to come in here and steal.

Speaker 1 And you could just. clean out and move.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, Richie.
I mean, his real name was Ryden. I'll just say it, I guess.
But yeah, Ryden was like known across LA County as like a top shoplifter. So he'd go in first.

Speaker 2 All the staff would be like, fucking Ryden's here.

Speaker 1 They would like, you know, like all huddle around Ryden.

Speaker 2 Then I'd sneak in with two like Trader Joe's, like permanent shopping bags tucked in my pants and just like dump shit into my bags.

Speaker 1 Damn, then you're probably looking pretty hippie when you went out there, though.

Speaker 2 I know. I look like a good, like a good Samaritan just shopping.

Speaker 1 Wait, so you had them in your pants and you popped them out

Speaker 1 and then carried them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just carry two bags. And I linked up with this like,

Speaker 2 what do you call it, like a fence? And I got him to start buying makeup. So I'd just like pour makeup into my, into my bag, and he'd give me like $2.75 per little eyelash thing or whatever.
And

Speaker 2 yeah, I just started making a ton of money.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Matt, I'm constantly looking for car keys, phone, chapstick, glasses, headphones.
There you go. And I lose them all the time.

Speaker 1 That's why I use wired headphones now. Ooh.

Speaker 1 What's the longest time you spent looking for something? I usually give up pretty quick. Yeah, true.
Someone I have a hard time shopping for. I have a tough time finding Le Mer gifts.
Really?

Speaker 1 And I like to spoil them.

Speaker 1 It'd be nice if we had a superpower that helped us find exactly what we need at the right moment. Luckily for my hiring managers out there, you've at least got the next best thing, ZipRecruiter.

Speaker 1 Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash MSSP. Want to know right away how many qualified candidates are in your area? I would love that.
Look no further than ZipRecruiter.

Speaker 1 Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Wow.

Speaker 1 And right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash MSSP. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash MSSP.
ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire.

Speaker 2 Damn. And still going to sleep every night with zero dollars.

Speaker 1 Fuck. Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 That was the craziest thing. So for you, it was like, you know, and again, in the book, you kind of detail, but you start out, you know, it's pretty like regular kind of stuff, but

Speaker 1 in terms of the

Speaker 1 drug use, it wasn't so much of like, oh, I'm going to try this, I'm going to try that. You just describe having this just like constant feeling of like, this is wrong, shit's wrong, shit's fucked up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, then it was like, I need to stay drunk all the time. And it was the thing, you, the thing you talked about earlier, like, it's just how, like, the

Speaker 1 kind of the mental gymnastics of like, look, I'm always, here's my line.

Speaker 1 I'm not, this is, I'm good on this side of the line. If I cross this line, then it's a problem.
Then you cross the line, you're like, look, no, no, the line's over here.

Speaker 1 And if I cross over here, then I'm fucked. And eventually it's like, god damn it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 you there's just constant and obviously the end line is like i'm gonna have sex with a guy for money you know that's like the last line and and fortunately i did not cross that line i know people don't believe that but why do you want to believe that

Speaker 2 what the i don't it's just all my high school friends are like we know you did it you know and i swear i didn't i mean one time i let a guy tickle my feet for a hundred dollars who wouldn't dude that's who wouldn't

Speaker 2 and he and he actually was like a kind of a camcorder guy so like he filmed it oh yeah and i've hit him up on Gmail. This was like 2011.

Speaker 2 So I've recently hit him up on Gmail and I'm like, yo, I know you've tickled a lot of feet, but like, do you remember me? Like,

Speaker 2 I'd like to see that footage. And he's like, I'll give you $100.

Speaker 1 How about that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he's like, he's like, what size foot were you? Like, I got to remember.
And he's like, I don't know. I've tickled too many feet.

Speaker 2 But he like tied me up in a bed like with those like. you know those like kinky tie-up things that have like quick release it's like safe play or whatever

Speaker 2 i could imagine yeah so like like it was like kind of me and my wife no there's no safe play dialogue

Speaker 2 but he was cool he went to uc berkeley he was like a small asian man nice we talked to you you know i went to uc santa cruz so we we had our little rivalry we talked we you know we talked school and then he tickled me was he what was his deal was he kind of like just a sexual pervert he's a sexual pervert he was kind of otherwise just chilling normal job he's like i'm gonna tickle these guys oh yeah he i think he had like a good job but he he was just like i'm really into tickling i'm really into tickling feet specifically and i was like well i'm like a meth head so my feet yeah do not look good.

Speaker 2 You know, and I was like, can I keep socks on? And he was like, no, no, you got to take the socks off. So I took the socks off and he was like, put the socks back on.

Speaker 1 Your feet were thrashed.

Speaker 1 And then he was like tickling my feet.

Speaker 2 And he was like, and I wasn't laughing. Like, eventually you stop laughing.
It stops you coming ticklish. And he was like, you have to, like, you, that's how you get paid.
Like, you have to laugh.

Speaker 1 So that was where to fake it?

Speaker 2 I had to fake it.

Speaker 1 I faked it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that was really like the, and that was pretty innocent, honestly. So I crossed way worse lines in terms of like,

Speaker 2 you know, damage I did to other people and things like that that I don't feel good about. But generally, I had a pretty good time.

Speaker 2 You know, I started out as a heroin addict, and that was pretty manageable and boring. You just kind of get sleepy.
But then I moved to methamphetamine, and that's when things kind of like that.

Speaker 1 The way you did that was kind of cool.

Speaker 1 It wasn't a bad idea, but like how you're saying you were, yeah, you were delivering heroin for a guy, and they basically forced you like, bro, I know you're going to be nodding out and shit.

Speaker 1 hit some meth, get out there.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I kind of worked for this guy that was like working under the cartel and and um and he would pay me to deliver heroin and heroin addicts you know as you see outside there's they're sleepy you know they're pretty sleepy so uh he was like i can't trust that you drive and do heroin you're gonna crash you're gonna get arrested so you got you actually as a prerequisite for the job you have to start doing meth and that was a line you know that was a line and i was like well it's part of my job details like obviously i'm gonna do that being responsible yeah and in meth i like felt i'm a company man

Speaker 2 and uh yeah i started doing meth and that like i went from like a homeless student I mean no no sorry a drug addict student like pretty manageable had a girlfriend all that like to like within three weeks like screaming at people homeless like lost my place to live dropped out of school crashed my car

Speaker 2 lost the car

Speaker 2 yeah meth like really quickly took me down and that kind of sent you into orbit basically yeah and I like lost my mind and and and you know there's there's a lot of fun to be had like in meth psychosis and all that but it does become pretty unmanageable and uh eventually i used crack cocaine to quit meth so i i kind of fell in love with crack because that got you off of meth yeah and i've heard vice versa i've heard of people using meth to get off the crack a lot of people actually do that yeah so if you go to skid row it's like full of like og crackheads that switch to meth and they're kind of like

Speaker 1 Are they tame? Are they kind of out of it?

Speaker 2 Well, meth is cheaper, but I think you see, meth is like, you can stay up for six days on meth and like really start doing some damage, like screen, you know, know, really thinking that you're talking to demons and all that.

Speaker 2 And you get into this like really dark psychosis, whereas crack is very simple. It's just like you think the, it's like you're just paranoid about the police.

Speaker 2 So like it actually, and it's very like short, it's like short bursts of this paranoia that's actually pretty fun. That's cool.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So like you smoke crack and you think like the FBI is after you, which is kind of cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's better than demons. I'd rather keep it to this realm.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Interdimensional fucking beings and shit.

Speaker 2 And you like tell yourself every, you're like, I'm going to smoke this crack. Like, obviously, the CIA is not after me.
Obviously, the FBI is not after me.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm just a crack, I'm a homeless crackhead.

Speaker 2 And then you, every single time that you smoke crack, and you're like immediately hiding behind a dumpster, and you're like, you're like, there's a helicopter.

Speaker 2 And they're like, I stole some makeup. They're fucking after.
I'm on the, I'm on like America's Most Wanted.

Speaker 1 I'm on the bulletin board. They got my picture.
The fucking yarn connected me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that, um,

Speaker 1 yeah, that is kind of terrifying.

Speaker 1 It was weird, too, when you said you were able to, like, eventually with meth, realize, like, with, like, you know, when you're bugging out on weed, you're like, none of this is real.

Speaker 1 But, like, I guess, obviously, it's way deeper, but to realize, like, this is just a meth delusion.

Speaker 1 And I was that you were able to, like, kind of ride that out a little bit, which sounds fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, when you first start doing it, you have a lot of auditory hallucinations. So you actually hear like your friends.

Speaker 2 So you're like, holy shit, my friends are in the house. Like, they're in the next room.
Then you start texting your friend.

Speaker 2 You know, I would text my friends and be like, you know, I hear you talking shit. you know, and they're like, I'm a hundred miles away right now.

Speaker 1 And you're like, yeah, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, fuck.

Speaker 2 And then, so, but the auditory hallucinations are so, um, they're just so insane that eventually you, you are like, okay, like my friends are not in the next room. My family is not in the next room.

Speaker 2 And you sort of tame the beast at that point. And then it just turns into like

Speaker 2 mental hallucinations, which are more creative and more fun. Okay.

Speaker 1 Once you get over the paranoia, you're like, actually, yeah, let's explore some of these other ideas. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's a terrible drug. I don't recommend anyone.

Speaker 2 It's pretty hard to functionally use meth. Yeah, I could have told you.
And keep your job.

Speaker 1 Unless you're a Nazi soldier.

Speaker 2 Yeah, or a gay guy. Gay guys seem to be able to heard well.

Speaker 1 That's pretty cool. What the hell?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know. I used to chill with these gay dudes in San Francisco and they were like flight attendants and had jobs.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you think they were like micro-dosing? Are they like they're blazing?

Speaker 2 No, I think they were using meth pretty hard. Well, you know, you use meth for like a long weekend.

Speaker 2 It works really well with jobs that are like three days on four days off oh that makes sense you just crash for like three days and then they'd use use g uh ghb to like come down and i like ghb but they were like do not pass out around us

Speaker 2 they were like someone could come in like they let you they were like that's like a that's on you buddy yeah true so i'd use ghb and be like it's time for me to go guys yeah like this is getting too wild in here and yeah dude yeah i mean maybe not to sound like you know ridiculous i could see that if you're like a gay guy and you're just kind of messed up people like he's a little sassy today.

Speaker 1 It might just take your sass to the next level.

Speaker 2 Well, they were my friends, but they were like, we have other friends that like we can't, they might come in here and who knows, you're passed out. Like, who knows what happens, you know? So

Speaker 2 they're like looking out for me. That's fair, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Especially if you're like, you know, partying on meth.
That's like.

Speaker 2 Yeah, if you're partying on meth with a bunch of gay guys in San Francisco, it's, it's kind of on you. Yeah.
If something like that happens. I would agree.

Speaker 1 I would agree. Especially if it's like, if it's already like, were they like into like, obviously they're probably doing like the chem sex thing and all that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, heavy into chemsex. That's basically, yeah, they are.
You can't pass out of the chem sex orgy, dude. No, you cannot pass out.

Speaker 1 I would say that's on you. Traditionally, I'd be like, well, you know, people should conduct themselves in a proper manner.

Speaker 1 But if you're just like, yeah, I'm going to go to bed right now, a little sleepy.

Speaker 1 EHB is kicking my ass. I'm not that pass out, guys.
You do you. I'm going to just sleep here on my belly.
Don't bother me anymore.

Speaker 1 I'm such a pussy with substance.

Speaker 1 I took melatonin for the first time recently because I'm trying to like get my sleep, which i've had some success success getting my sleep schedule under um under like wraps with like traveling and all this stuff so i've started taking melatonin i'm such a pussy with substances like even that three milligrams melatonin i'm like i take it i'm just laying there reading a book i'm like it's not even working so i'm just reading reading reading all of a sudden i like put my book down i'm like oh my arms are so heavy i was like oh no i was curled next to my wife like help me

Speaker 1 i don't like yeah i was like the opposite like anything if anything goes into my body i'm like what's this what's happening what's it you know but i i do understand you get to the point where you go i don't give a you're just you know i i do get that too if so if like if things are going wrong and things are you know you're just like i don't give a well you build

Speaker 2 the way you build a tolerance to like physically but you also build a tolerance mentally you're like i want to check out you know so like i i was like by the end i was shooting heroin cocaine and clonopin at the same time damn which is uh I don't even know if shooting clonopen works, but I was, you know, I was shooting clonopen.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it does. I'm sure it got into your bloodstream.
I think so, yeah.

Speaker 2 It like, what do you call it? It like

Speaker 2 it makes the heroin act heavier, you know, because you get such a high tolerance to heroin.

Speaker 2 And like, the problem with heroin is like you get really addicted to heroin to the point where your life gets really shitty and then you want to kill yourself, but it's like a catch-22 because like now you've become too physically addicted that it's hard to overdose on heroin to kill yourself, you know?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. So that chain, obviously with fentanyl, that's different.
Yeah. You can kill yourself pretty easily with fentanyl.

Speaker 1 So you got out of it before like the big shit with like the what's that shit called? Trank with like the big big blues. Have you seen that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I last got high in 2018 and I was right when fentanyl really started hitting, but I was in Florida at one point and fentanyl hit Florida first.
So I have shot fentanyl.

Speaker 2 I don't like it. You know, I died.

Speaker 2 You know, I overdosed in some guy's car and he like took me to the hospital and like took everything out of my pockets and like dragged me out of his car and left me.

Speaker 1 Jerk.

Speaker 2 But they, you know, they narcan me, they like narcan me and uh

Speaker 2 they were like, yeah, man, you, you, you were, you were doing fentanyl. And I was like, I, I didn't even know what fentanyl was.

Speaker 2 And they told me. So then obviously I was like, I'm never doing that again.
And then like two days later, I was like, I'm going to do that again.

Speaker 1 I'm about to drive it out.

Speaker 2 And fentanyl is. You died.
You clinically died. I died.
I died for like four minutes.

Speaker 1 Did you? I have a friend who did that. He died like three times.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. It's crazy because you're like dead.
And then they narcan you and you feel like you're underwater and someone's like pulling you up from the ocean. You're like at the bottom of the ocean.

Speaker 2 You can't breathe. You're like trying to breathe.
And then they like pull you out. Then you just pop out of the ocean and then you like, you're just in a hospital, and people are like looking at you.

Speaker 2 And I heard you're pretty agitated, too, because like you are, it all wears off, it all wears off, you're fucking pissed, and they like don't want to help you because you're, I'm like, can I use a phone?

Speaker 2 The guy took my phone, they're like, Can you use a phone? Like,

Speaker 1 you're right on the beat, you're like, bro, I need to talk to my boy, it was me 40 bucks. You're like, lay down, dude, I'm dead.

Speaker 2 Yes, and then, and they cut my shirt open, so I had like a gown. They like let me go with a gown in Miami, and I was just like walking around Miami with a gown and like no phone.

Speaker 2 And I called my dad, I finally called my dad, and he was like,

Speaker 2 He was just like man you got to go to jail like jail would help you right now yeah you know so what'd you do um

Speaker 2 i think i just called some other people and and eventually you know i got picked up but i i just kept using fentanyl but fentanyl is like very debilitating like you know i would do fentanyl and like i had like a two-week run on fentanyl and i'd like you do fentanyl and you just wake up 12 hours later in like a different neighborhood and you know it's really up whereas heroin you can like like i used to do construction on heroin like you can maintain it i used like operating heavy machinery and shit yeah whereas with fentanyl i couldn't even make it back to my halfway house so like the one rule at my halfway house was like you just have to show up before midnight and you don't get kicked out and i got kicked out like i couldn't even drive a car yeah yeah that makes sense yeah i've worked with guys on heroin before they're not it's not like ideal obviously but you know it's not ideal they can get the job done yeah my dad did it for like 30 years yeah you know and and you know he did fine until he started smoking crack and then you know crack is is is a different beast yeah that's that's what my ice this guy i would ride around with him all the time in his truck and he would would try to literally like get me to do heroin.

Speaker 1 He'd be like, Bro, gotta.

Speaker 1 And my other friend explained it to me that it's really one of those things where when you start doing heroin, you're gonna start to evangelize it because you want people underneath you so that you can start selling it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, we work together all the time. He'd be like, Bro, man, like you'd be having such a fun time.
And I'm like, it's like noon. He's just sweating profusely, driving around.

Speaker 1 I'm like, man, I think I'm right. He's like, dude, you can eat.
Like, you're not going to lose your appetite. You'll just party.

Speaker 1 It'll be awesome. I'm like, meanwhile, I literally picked him up from his house or like met him at his house.
He was actually the one driving, which is funny enough. But it was just like him,

Speaker 1 his babes, just on a mattress on the ground. Also, he was just like,

Speaker 1 she was active in the family business, obviously. She was like selling herself.
Yeah. So all this stuff's being proposed to me.
He's like, bro, I'm telling you, it's a good time.

Speaker 1 I was like, I'm good, man.

Speaker 2 I mean, it is a good time when you're on heroin. Yeah.
And then you wake, and then the heroin wears off, and it's like the worst time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, true.

Speaker 2 And then your life becomes this every day. It's like you do heroin.
You're like, I have 12 hours until I'm having diarrhea. And like really sick from heroin.

Speaker 1 That's not far off.

Speaker 2 But it's like this.

Speaker 1 You put heroin on the food in the airport.

Speaker 2 But it's like a full-time job. And it's just, it's actually kind of cool because you like have this one singular goal.
Yeah. And it's like, I just have to like steal shit and get heroin.

Speaker 2 And then it's like, I have to steal shit and get heroin again. And then the next thing you know, like six months have passed.
And whoa, you know, and

Speaker 2 it, but that second, that, the second something doesn't link up and you like, you know, you, you show up at the the CVS and someone already stole all the shit and you're getting dope sick and everything.

Speaker 2 Because once you get too far into dope sickness, you're too dope sick to hustle up money.

Speaker 2 And it's like this, it's a crazy like treadmill that you have to just run every day.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's why they say a lot of people who get clean do like very, very well in sales and all like they get clean and they hit sales jobs and they just crush it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, that's a big thing in Florida, like get off heroin, start selling like scam vacations to Canadians or something. Yeah,

Speaker 1 someone I know was down there getting clean in Florida, and he was like, if you ever get a bill collector or anything, just be like, how's it going, man? You clean it, you say,

Speaker 1 he's had a lot of people that call you up on like telemarketing or just down in Florida, like outside of rehabs.

Speaker 2 I did it. Yeah, my dad got sober in Florida, so I went out to Florida and lived in a halfway house with him.
And I tried doing the sales job. I left both times at like noon.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just, I like labor.

Speaker 1 I like doing labor. Telemarketing is crazy.
I've tried my hand at it as well. And it's,

Speaker 1 I can't explain. It's just the weirdest fucking job.
You're just this little thing and like dude, managers are listening in on your call. I would be intensely nervous.
Like, oh, hey,

Speaker 1 she's just like, dude, I know there's a guy listening. I'm like, fuck.

Speaker 2 And they give you a script, and it's like, I know how to talk. Like, you just talk to this guy, and they're like, no, no, you got to read.
And they're like listening on your headset.

Speaker 2 And they're like, read the fucking scripts. Like, I wrote the script.
Just read the script. The scripts are so bad.

Speaker 1 How do they not know that it's like the worst possible thing? Yeah.

Speaker 2 But there's guys that are just making like five grand a week doing it. I know.
You know, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is.

Speaker 1 There were, there were the office big dogs when I did. I did like

Speaker 1 tech cyber. I don't know what it was.
It was like selling servers and shit. Yeah.
And there were guys that were absolutely coining it in there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They just had, they could sit there and like hold it, like out of a movie, they'd like hold a ball and be like, let me tell you about the new Pentium 4. And I was like, fuck, dude.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I prefer getting paid like $9 an hour and just like doing demo with like no one that speaks English.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is nice, actually. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Holy crap, guys. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
What's something you'd love to learn? As an adult, do you make time to learn new things as often as you'd like?

Speaker 1 Or was that lost in childhood? Kids are always learning and growing, but as adults, sometimes we lose that curiosity. What's something you'd like to learn? Gardening, a new language?

Speaker 1 Or maybe how to finally beat your best friend in bowling?

Speaker 1 Therapy can help you reconnect with your sense of wonder because your back to school era can come at any age. And I agree, I think the copy is a little trite, but I do agree.

Speaker 1 I think you should should always seek to expand your horizons. And again, I know guys have a big thing against it.

Speaker 1 I do think talking to someone, finding a therapist can get you out of your own personal, you know, the limitations of your social network and, you know, maybe expose you to some ideas you would never come across.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I think it's a good idea.
If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule.

Speaker 1 Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge. Rediscover your curiosity with BetterHelp.

Speaker 1 Visit betterhelp.com slash MSSP today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash MSSP.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, guys, Lucy is made for your nicotine routine and delivered straight to your door. It's 100% pure nicotine and always tobacco-free.

Speaker 1 Lucy isn't like every other nicotine pouch company that's owned by Big Tobacco. They're like the mom and pop shop of pouches.

Speaker 1 Pouches come in a variety of strengths from 4 milligrams all the way up to 12 milligrams. Lucy offers a unique variety of flavors, including apple ice, wintergreen, mango, and espresso.

Speaker 1 If you're not a pouch person, Lucy gum is available in 2 milligrams, 4 milligrams, or 6 milligrams. What else do I need to say? It's fantastic.
I take fucking 600 milligrams every day.

Speaker 1 Let's level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to lucy.co/slash slash drenched and use promo code drenched to get 20% off your first order.

Speaker 1 Lucy offers free shipping and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. That's lucy.co and use code drenched to get 20% off and always free shipping.
And here comes the fine print.

Speaker 1 Lucy products are only for adults of legal age and every order is aged verified. So if you're thinking about picking up young chicks with Lucy products, don't do it.

Speaker 1 They're only for grown up responsible adults over the age of 18. Warning, this product contains nicotine, and nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow, guys, PrizePicks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active members. PrizePicks is the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports.

Speaker 1 Unlike other apps on PrizePicks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less, more, less

Speaker 1 on two to six player stat projections and just watch the winnings roll in. You can now win up to 100 times your money on prize picks with as little as four correct picks.

Speaker 1 Prize picks is the best way to get action on sports in most states, including California, Texas, and Georgia. PrizePicks puts their members first so all withdrawals are fast, safe, and secure.

Speaker 1 When my picks hit, I can get my money in as quick as 15 minutes. PrizePicks invented the flex play, which means you can still cash out if your lineup isn't perfect.

Speaker 1 You can double your money even if one of your picks doesn't hit. I mean, I can't say anything more about this.

Speaker 1 I love getting in on the fantasy sports action daily with prize picks, just me against the numbers. That's what I want.

Speaker 1 Download the PrizePicks app today and use code drenched and get $50 instantly when you play $5.

Speaker 1 That's code drenched on prize picks to get $50 instantly when you play $5.

Speaker 1 You don't even need to win to receive the $50 $50 bonus. It's guaranteed.
Prize picks. Run your game.
Now let's get back to the show after a quick announcement.

Speaker 1 Hey, guys, really quick, I have a couple of shows coming up. I'd love to see you there.

Speaker 1 I'll be in Philly this weekend, but that's gone.

Speaker 1 Comedy Connection, East Providence, Rhode Island. That is September 12th to September 14th.
Please go. I think that'll sell out, but let's have fun there.

Speaker 1 Cleveland, Ohio,

Speaker 1 I'll be at the Hilarities Comedy Club from October 10th to October 12th. And then Boston, I'll be at the Wilbur, 1018, one night only, two shows.

Speaker 1 Come on, that's actually, that's poised to sell out any minute now.

Speaker 1 Any day now, really.

Speaker 1 Also, Milwaukee, I'll be at the Improv, 1024 to 1026. And these goings are big.
Guys, please come to these ones. God damn it.
Please, Washington, D.C. area, Virginia.
I'll be at the Capitol One Hall.

Speaker 1 in Tysons, Virginia on November 15th. And then the next day, I'll be at the New York Comedy Festival, Town Hall, New York City, the state of New York, New York City, New York.
That's 11:16.

Speaker 1 Guys, please come. Then I'll have a bunch of other dates coming up.
Love you. Bye.

Speaker 1 It does have like a freeing effect on the mind when you're doing that. When you're just knocking down walls, carrying heavy stuff.
At the end of the day, you're tired, you lay down.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what I did in Florida. Like, I just did like grunt manual labor with like Cubans and Nicaraguans.

Speaker 2 And yeah, this one guy had a tool chest that said, Work will set you free, which is what Auschwitz said on us.

Speaker 1 I don't think, I don't think he was aware of that

Speaker 2 but i was like damn work does set you free true

Speaker 2 and uh i don't know it sets you it's i i recommend if you're trying to get off opiates or drugs like just go do manual labor i mean it really helped me yeah i could see that i don't do it anymore but um

Speaker 1 i mean it just makes the clock spin you're just trying to make the clock spin at first you know yeah to get time through the time yeah yeah that was uh that was another thing too i found kind of striking when you were like you would get clean you'd be like all right everything's going well then there'd be a part of your brain where like i'm doing heroin yeah I'm definitely doing it again.

Speaker 1 It's just a matter of time. And be like, all right, I'm going to make it to this city.
I'm not going to stop.

Speaker 1 I'm going to stop over here.

Speaker 1 That's the weirdest part of the whole thing when it's like,

Speaker 1 it's like a hard thing for people to wrap their head around because it's like, you can have the experience of things going like as south as possible, but you know, when like your immediate relationships get thrown off, all this stuff, you get clean.

Speaker 1 And the thing that sucks about addiction is that thing where you're like, I don't want to do this, but there's genuinely a part of you that's just like,

Speaker 1 you're like,

Speaker 1 fuck, whatever. Yeah, that you can't control.
It's hard to explain to anybody else. And it's such a weird part of ourselves that people don't really know what to do with.

Speaker 1 Like, even like experts, like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, if you're following your own will and you're a drug addict, you are going to do heroin, whether it takes you two days or a week or 30 days, five years, like you're just going to, you're just going to do heroin.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, your life, you know, my life would get pretty good. I'd like buy like a $1,200 car and like get a little job and then be like, okay, I'm moving.

Speaker 2 You know, I drove from Florida to Oakland one time and like got my apartment set up and everything. And then I was like, I'm going to fucking stay clean.

Speaker 2 And then I hit like New Orleans and I was like, I'm going to go check out, you know, what's going on. And you're like, I wonder if like, you like talk to a kid at a gas station.

Speaker 2 You're like, is there heroin here? Like, just out of curiosity, you know?

Speaker 1 And then there better not be any heroin here, is there?

Speaker 2 But I mean, obviously, this, you know, I know this is a Catholic podcast. You know, I got spiritual, you know.
That's good.

Speaker 1 I've heard, I've heard that is for real the thing that really helps, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. And people don't want to hear that shit, but sorry.
Like, that's what, you know, that's what helped me.

Speaker 2 And it's not like it's a non-denominational thing, but like, I just like had to give it up, you know, and

Speaker 2 yeah, man, I believe in God and I don't want to get weird or anything about God or anything.

Speaker 2 But like, you know, I believe in something, you have to believe in something bigger than yourself is like watching over you. And you have to kind of accept.
It's actually like a humility thing.

Speaker 2 It's like when I make, when I'm in charge and I make decisions, like I end up in a bathtub in Chinatown, like missing my toe or some shit and like a needle in my arm.

Speaker 2 And like that, that is where I literally end up. And so I can't make decisions.
Like, when, so you just kind of like try to align your will with God's will. And

Speaker 2 listen, man, I'm sitting across the table from Matt McCusker right now. And like, I was literally a homeless guy on Skid Row, you know, so like, you know, obviously.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's right.

Speaker 1 How many ways Paul? I'm like, dude, it's so fucking cool. I've never gotten one of these guys.

Speaker 2 No, I figure like a lot of people, you know, we see these guys, like people want to hear these guys. You know, I'm a heroin guy.
Like, I'm a guy.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, so that is crazy if you think about talking to one of these.

Speaker 1 No, dude, if if you were to sit there you drive past skid row and you're like oh there's a fucking published author right there you know it's like you don't think of it at all yeah it is crazy i i do think it is regrettable that that it that's just the taboo of our time religion taboo of our time yeah like back in the victorian times you couldn't talk about sex you could talk about religion now you can be like you know whatever you can talk you can be like my daughter does only fans i'm very proud of her yeah

Speaker 1 you can't talk about the health teacher now in school actually shows their dick to the class i don't know

Speaker 1 it's like it's so weird and if you bring up religion it's like yeah you can't do it's i do think that that's how aaa was founded it was i think the guy bill was the dude bill he actually um

Speaker 1 met with carl jung back when yeah you know whatever and carl young was the guy who was like bro if you don't come up with some sort of spiritual connection or come up with some sort of a connection to uh

Speaker 1 you know a reality beyond yourself or whatever transpersonal reality um you're doomed it's like if you hit you know if you're over 40 that was carl young's big thing is like if you hit 40 and you don't come up with some

Speaker 1 worldview that doesn't have you at the absolute center of the universe, if you can somehow like shift it up to where there's actually something way beyond yourself and kind of humble yourself, yeah, he's like, the rest of your life will be way easier.

Speaker 1 If you don't, it's just all going to fall apart. And you're going to go, oh, shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's like the key for everybody. I mean, especially, and that, you know, it works for drug addicts.
I think it would work for everybody.

Speaker 1 It does. I genuinely think it does.
I had a similar thing because I grew up Catholic and, you know, it was like, you like, you get out and you're like, church is bullshit.

Speaker 1 It's not the real body of Christ. They figured it out.

Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, your life starts to fall apart. And it can be bigger or lesser ways.
And you're like, same thing. You're like, I've been in charge of the program here.

Speaker 1 Results are less than spectacular. Let me try to reorient myself.

Speaker 1 Because it reorients you more towards service rather than trying to self-aggrandize and blah, blah, blah. And

Speaker 1 right now, I'm doing a project where I'm just studying a bunch of autobiographies and I'm trying to figure out like if there is,

Speaker 1 I guess, I don't know what to call it. I guess it would be like circumstantial proof or whatever, just like anecdotal of like worldviews where it's like, you know, me at the center of the world.

Speaker 1 They call it, it's like express self is like a type of value system where it's like, I get what I want at the end of the day. At the end of the day, you know, I'm the boss.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of people, that's the value system. Then there's the sacrifice self value system, which is like, there's something greater than me.

Speaker 1 I have to live by, you know, some sort of rules that I don't necessarily set.

Speaker 1 And I'm trying to like look at all these these autobiographies and try to see like, all right, who lives is like more of an express self type? Who lives as a sacrifice self?

Speaker 1 And then after reading hopefully like 50 or 100 autobiographies, being like, all right, here's how these ended up, basically. And everyone probably has like a bit of a mix.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I, I do, I think that's kind of crazy how that is be a thing where it's like, I don't want to get weird, but I believe in God. And it's like, it's not that weird.

Speaker 1 People have been doing it since the beginning of like human consciousness. Yeah.
So what you're saying, people get worried too.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh man, like, you know, I don't want to come come off as like a religious nut. Cause it is what I get it.

Speaker 1 People like that, people can really hammer that home to the point where it's like, all right, but yeah, I'm glad for you. I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 And it's, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, it's hard to monetize, where it's like, well, you know, it's easier to set up.

Speaker 1 Like, well, we got to figure out with like pills, this, that, and this. It's like, well, you can also have a spiritual experience.
And they're like,

Speaker 1 all right. Yeah.
So I don't know. I'm not saying it's like a big conspiracy, but like, well, it's just an unfortunate thing of our time when it's such a simple solution.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not a simple solution, obviously, but it's one of those things where it's like, I don't know. I think it's regrettable that people are so like, oh,

Speaker 1 you, I can say it's like one of those things that can help your life so tremendously if you find something, you know, tailored for yourself. You don't have to like sever off your rational mind.

Speaker 1 You just have to like, you know, maybe pluck a little chunk out of it. Yeah.
Just kind of keep the rest.

Speaker 2 And it, like, you know, it gives you community.

Speaker 2 It gives you a sense of like, there's a bigger thing going on than just what's in my head and like what I think this person thinks about me at the office.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, drug addicts are the most like self-obsessive, selfish people, really.

Speaker 2 I mean, I know that sounds, you know, that's that's not like a kind thing to say about these people that are out on the streets, but like I was out on the streets and like all you give a fuck about is yourself.

Speaker 2 And uh, whenever I only give a fuck about myself, I end up laying in the gutter. I mean, that's just what happens.

Speaker 2 So, like, and I know that's really hard to say as a guy that, like, I literally wrote a book about my life, like, how self-obsessive could you get?

Speaker 2 I mean, that's as self-obsessive as you can get, really.

Speaker 1 But only great men write on the body. So, don't, don't.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but, but, you know, if you read the book, it's basically me writing about how retarded I am.

Speaker 2 Yeah, So it's like, sure, it's like it's about me, but it's about how much of a piece of shit I am, really. So hopefully that, like, there's a sense of humility around it, you know.

Speaker 1 Your ambition just met its match with Robinhood. You play for the win, not just on game day, every day.
Channel that drive into your money. Trade stocks and ETFs,

Speaker 1 options and futures all on one platform. You expect more from yourself.
Expect more from your money. Get started today at robinhood.com slash your money.
Your money, your move.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Viore. So there's a lot of sports out there.
Obviously, you've got basketball, baseball, and football. But then there's running, climbing, yoga, pickleball.

Speaker 1 But the good news is that you only need one pair of shorts for all of it. The core short from Viore.
That's right. The core short is the short that started it all for Viori.

Speaker 1 Fitness versatility. One short every sport.

Speaker 1 Guys, they're ideal for fitness, running, and training, but also stylish and comfortable. That's important.
That is important. I want to be stylish.
I'm going to be stylish and comfortable.

Speaker 1 Some of their stuff is like borderline erotic.

Speaker 1 If you feel my shorts right here, I'm actually wearing them right now.

Speaker 1 I'm actually wearing them right now, dude.

Speaker 1 Viori is an investment in happiness. And right now, you can get 20% off your first order in free shipping on any U.S.
order of $75 and free returns.

Speaker 1 So get your core shorts now at viori.com slash secret. That's vuori.com/slash secret.
Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.
No, I think you did a great job.

Speaker 1 And it really is.

Speaker 1 It's one of those things where it's like, you know, whether it's drug addiction or just like, you know, say you're not addicted to drugs, that same line of thought is just not as pronounced.

Speaker 1 Cause it's like, if you're, if you're addicted to heroin and meth, it's like, yeah, you're crashing your car, you're going to jail. So like everyone's easily like, yep, you're fucking up.

Speaker 1 But if you're running like a similar, you know, I think most people are very, very self. It's just the way we're designed.
It's not like a, you know, value or like a character flow.

Speaker 1 It's just the the way we're kind of designed that I think kind of slowly erodes through a series of repeated and larger failures in life where it's like, you know, say you're like, I didn't do like heroin or meth or anything, but I've had definitely decisions blow up in my face that weren't like my whole family like, God damn, that guy needs to go away for a while.

Speaker 1 But it was enough to be like for me to be like, well, that fucking all went up in smoking. You're like, God.
Damn it.

Speaker 1 And you're like, you know, because there was that big master of the universe syndrome where you're like, I got to figure it out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like when I would like sell weed and all this stuff, I would be like smoking weed all day, driving around with like 30 30 pounds of weed in my trunk, like, dude, I'm the master of the fucking, and just like a bunch of my relationships fell apart.

Speaker 1 I was like, I'm kind of a fucking loser. I thought I was a man.
Yeah. So that can happen, man, when you're just kind of like, dude, I don't have to listen to anybody.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do anything anyone says. And it's like, when you're young, it's very intoxicating to be in that.
And then you're like, oh, there's this whole other part of life that has to go.

Speaker 1 And like, you know, even if you don't want a family, it's like being involved in your community, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you get kind of like self-insulated, it's easy to have like the wheels come off. And it is a funny thing when you're like, I'm the boss here.

Speaker 2 And it's just like your life just dilapidates and you're like fuck yeah and every problem you like this is a big thing like you know the guy that's like 45 that just like fucks his life up every year and it's always like someone else's fault yeah so like that's a big thing about addiction and um where it's like you're just constantly blaming everyone you're at the center of the universe and you're just blaming everyone around you for like all your problems so yeah that's another thing with spirituality is like i don't know it just helped me like

Speaker 2 take like a like all this almost like an overhead view of my life and just be like hold on you're like the common denominator of all this shit. Like potentially you are the cause of these problems.

Speaker 2 Like you are responsible for these problems. And when you kind of like, are like, okay, well, it just goes back to like, okay, well, then I'm not the, I'm not running the show.

Speaker 2 I'm going to let someone else run the show.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, since I, you know, I was like a laborer on and off, you know, either I was homeless or I was like in a halfway house doing like construction for nine bucks an hour.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the second I kind of like started changing my life and living this way and having some faith, you know, like I have a career. I have my family back.
I'm fucking doing a podcast.

Speaker 2 Like, I mean, it just, you know, life really just starts to take off. And right when I finally admitted, like, you are the piece of shit that is causing all these problems.

Speaker 2 And like, you have to have like a complete psychic change.

Speaker 2 And, uh, you know, I, I don't think, you know, a lot of people that are hardcore drug addicts, like, if they don't have that psychic change, like it's, it's not, it's not really when, it's not really if it's like when are you going to go back to that life?

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, you've got to change.

Speaker 1 The blame's a big one. I've noticed that with people where they're like, dude, he's a fucking, and you're like, that's your problem right now? This dude's being a dickhead to you?

Speaker 1 Like, I could name 25 other things, dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Or like blaming the police.
Like, I was so pissed at the police. Like, the police set me up.
I sold drugs to an undercover cop and like I got a felony and like I had to go to jail.

Speaker 2 And it like kind of fucked like the next couple of years of my life up. And I was so fucking pissed at the police.

Speaker 2 And then I got sober and I like kind of changed everything. And I was like, you sold drugs to a fucking, you sold fake, you stole Tylenol from a CVS, said they were Norcos, sold them to a cop.

Speaker 2 Like you're retarded. You shouldn't have done done that.
Kind of bunky.

Speaker 1 I always thought if you sell fake drugs, you don't get in as much trouble.

Speaker 2 I think probably, but I'm like, I was like on hair. I was like, get me out of here.
Like, I'll plead anything. Like, just get me out of here.

Speaker 2 And like, I had a public defender that was probably on methadone, and he was like, yo, you're fucked, man.

Speaker 2 Because, like, a lot of people, like, drug addicts that have like rich family or like family that will support them, like, we'll get them that lawyer, and which almost just kicks the can down the road.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, like, I called my dad and he was like, yo, stay in jail.
Like, do every, I was like,

Speaker 2 can you get me a lawyer? And he was like, fuck no, I'm not getting a lawyer.

Speaker 2 It'll be good for you to

Speaker 1 get, get like, you need to be contained. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then actually, like, when I became homeless, like I was homeless, I did like a year run on Skid Row and I would like call my dad and he was like, go to fucking jail.

Speaker 2 Like, do whatever you can to go to jail. Like, you need to go to, like, my dad went to jail.
That's how he like finally got sober. So I got so blessed and, you know, got to fucking go to jail.

Speaker 2 And, but jail did not like get me sober. Jill, Jill, like, physically removed me from heroin.
I never got physically addicted to heroin ever again.

Speaker 2 But I still like would relapse for like a few days here and there. And so like jail is not the ultimate solution, but it was like a kick in the ass and sort of like scared the fuck out of me.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, I was around a lot of people where I was like,

Speaker 2 damn, you're going to like become, you're going to be like a jail guy. Yeah.
You'd be like a prison guy. And like, can you be a prison guy? Like, you're not that big.
You're not that tough. Like,

Speaker 2 can you do it?

Speaker 1 How bad does it hurt in prison of just like no babes at all? That's the thing that would really fuck me up, dude. Well, Well,

Speaker 1 I was on heroin.

Speaker 1 It's a bad question.

Speaker 1 So you don't really think about the babes.

Speaker 2 Well, I was on heroin for so long. So when you're on heroin, you have like no, you're like asexual, like completely.

Speaker 2 And then when you come off heroin, you're like, you like come in your pants like immediately. Really? Someone like blows in your direction.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So like you're, so you get like ultra horny.
Oh, which is like jail is like the worst place to be ultra horny.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 I mean, it's fucking weird, man. It's like, there's like a female guard once in a while that comes in.
You can smell her. And everyone's like smelling.
You know, everyone's like sniffing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Puts their nose up.

Speaker 2 And then people get weird. People start to get like really weird where they're like,

Speaker 2 it's like, you're not allowed to horseplay in there. You're not allowed to do like any gay shit or like do any gay voices or anything like that or like fuck around.

Speaker 2 But there's guys that have that like twinkle in their eye.

Speaker 1 That would kill me, bro. Where they'd be like,

Speaker 1 so fucking gay for you, bro.

Speaker 2 Well, that's like, like, the white, obviously white guy humor is like, let's pretend we're gay. Yeah.
And like Mexicans run the jail. So they're just like, no gay shit.

Speaker 2 Like, so you have to be like, the white guys are like, none of that gay gay shit. Like, in front of, like, we got to impress the Mexicans, obviously.
Like,

Speaker 2 like, obviously, we want, we all want to, like, do the gay voice. Like, we're in fucking jail with a bunch of guys, like, and, and, but, like, the Mexicans will call us gay.
Like, we can't do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a trouble. Yeah.
And, like, obviously, the black guys are like, no, gay. Like, they're like number one, like, you know, no gay shit.
For sure.

Speaker 2 And so it really sucks for white guys in there.

Speaker 1 You can't fuck around and pretend to be gay at all. You can't fuck around.

Speaker 2 You can't, you know,

Speaker 2 you know, you can't take the towel and like never speak ever again.

Speaker 1 I never thought about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's really hard on white guys in there, man.

Speaker 1 It's so funny to have like some dude who's covered his swaster. He's like, and lastly, we can't fuck around about gay stuff.

Speaker 2 And it's like, clearly, and then occasionally you do have like your all, all white meeting in the shower area where it's like all white guys and it's like, you can let off some steam and like pretend you're gay for like 10 seconds.

Speaker 2 But it is funny because like the Mexicans just run everything and the white guys are allied with the Mexicans. So it's like we cannot, if we lose this allyship, like we are fucked.

Speaker 2 So like, we have to. So the Mexicans, like, you guys got to work out every day for an hour.

Speaker 2 So it's every day there's like white guys like half-assedly like doing jumping jacks and shit and like making sure the Mexicans are like watching. You're like, I'm, you know, I'm doing them.

Speaker 2 Are they pumping iron pretty hard there in the jail? No, uh, no, but they're like lifting each other, which is kind of gay. You know, they're like,

Speaker 2 yeah, if there's like a tiny Mexican guy, it's like, okay, obviously he's like for biceps, you know, and like

Speaker 2 you have to like use weird shit.

Speaker 2 You like get under the bunk bed and you're like, you can do like bench with like a like, they'll get like two Mexican guys on the on the bunk bed and then you're like doing like, okay, throw another Mexican guy on there and you're like,

Speaker 1 yeah, you just gotta, yeah, you gotta squat Danny Trejo. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 So you get really creative. You get like bats.
Sometimes you get a trash bag, you fill it up with water, you can do like curls with them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I heard. So is it what are like when the Mexican guy is being bicep curl, does he have like a straight face? Like yeah, because you looking like hard as fuck.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you have to look super hard.

Speaker 1 Just being curled.

Speaker 1 You got a fucking problem with me? Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, there's a lot of, there's a lot of like, get on my back and like, I'm going to do squats. Yeah, yeah.
And like,

Speaker 2 yeah, there's a lot. For a place where you're not allowed to pretend to be gay, there's like a lot of gay shit going on.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 obviously, like, you're jerking off in a room with like 100 guys at some point. And you're not allowed to jerk off.

Speaker 2 like but it's kind of a don't it's like don't ask don't tell situation so you be a gentleman about it don't be like yeah

Speaker 2 like a guy did like a guy i used to buy heroin from who i actually was in he came into the jail and i was like what's up man and i was like do you have any heroin and he was like no i'm you know i'm in jail but he got caught jerking off he was like a 70 year old black dude super cool guy but uh they rolled him up they were like no jerking off you know damn he was he did it he tried to be polite he did it like 5 a.m but like the early birds woke up and they caught him jerking off so

Speaker 1 that sucks

Speaker 1 i'd rather be caught by my parents a hundred times than have yeah be in jail and have these like you're jerking off motherfucker

Speaker 2 no I did it. It's like the scariest.
And obviously, you know, you've jerked off before.

Speaker 2 You realize, like, you know, when you're a kid and like, you're like, you're listening for your brothers and sisters and shit.

Speaker 2 And you're like, so this is like scarier because if someone hears you, like, they could stab you, you know?

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Not really. I mean, everyone knows like you got to do it.
So you just do it in the middle of the night when you wake up.

Speaker 2 And like, no one really, you know, but every night, if you ever wake up, you hear like the jingle of like many men quietly masturbating.

Speaker 1 It's like the roar of the ocean.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. And it kind of like puts, yeah, it helps you sleep and everything.

Speaker 1 That's crazy, dude.

Speaker 1 I never thought about that aspect of it. But I mean, obviously, you know, I figured, I thought you could just like hang your sheets over your bed and be like, I'm about to jerk off, bro.

Speaker 2 No, because there's like a man on your bunk, you know. So unless you have like an arrangement with him or something, you know, I don't, listen, I'm not Mr.
Prison. I'm not Mr.
Jail.

Speaker 2 Like, I've been to jail. Like, it could be different in other dorms, but like.

Speaker 2 No, it makes sense. Like my dorm, like it was kind of like a, you can't even show your dick unless you're in the shower.

Speaker 2 Like if you got, that was like an instant boobop like if you like if your dick popped out like in the dorm yeah yeah that makes sense or if you like talked about dicks or just like you know you just but in the shower obviously you're all naked you're showering together looking at everyone's dick so you can do whatever yeah yeah

Speaker 2 no talking dicks bro no no you can't talk about dicks because what do you do with morning wood in jail oh my god it's just like yeah man it's tough you gotta lay there you gotta just lay there you know and sometimes you gotta it's like because i was in the school dorm where i got to go to school so like

Speaker 2 i guess i'm gonna be late to school

Speaker 2 You know, because I can't have someone

Speaker 2 see my dick. Yeah, if you have a hard dick.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, bro.

Speaker 1 The fuck, bro. Yeah.
And fucking boner away.

Speaker 2 And then, like, meth will come in sometimes, which like makes everyone horny and gay, to be honest. So, like, that, that becomes pretty tough because like people are tweaked out.
And, you know, damn.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's one of those things. It's, that is tough.
I do understand going there and getting clean, but yeah, I think you're right. There is an extra layer.

Speaker 1 And I feel like there could be, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like there could be a more nuanced approach in jail once you have those guys as a captive audience. Like, how's the programming?

Speaker 1 Because I know there's like TC, like therapeutic community and all that stuff. Yeah.
Did you have that when you were in there?

Speaker 2 Well, there's like AA meetings that come in, and we had actually had like meditation classes, but you go there and like half the guys like are think it's like gay.

Speaker 2 They're like, this is gay, and then they like make noises and shit while you're trying to meditate. And there's like, I was like trying to- What kind of noises do they make?

Speaker 2 You know, like kumbaya and like

Speaker 2 mocking the lady came in to jail to teach a bunch of guys that like might murder her yoga and like meditation and like you're fucking being an asshole.

Speaker 1 And they're like,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 2 So like, I mean, listen, there's a lot of low IQ people in jail. True, yeah.
But yeah, like obviously there could be a better approach.

Speaker 2 I was in there probably 99% of the people I interacted with were either drug addicts or alcoholics. This is not a good system.
This is not working. Like clearly, this is a drug problem.

Speaker 2 Even like the violent criminals, it's like a lot of them were just on meth or like drunk and like beat the shit out of their wife or something.

Speaker 2 So, you know, there's like foundational issues of mostly like addiction and alcoholism. So like, yeah, we should address.

Speaker 2 Then that doesn't mean like, hey, you shot a guy in the head and you were on meth. Like we're going to put you into a therapeutic program.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, if you're violent, you got to probably do some time.

Speaker 2 But like, you know, there should be, I was really surprised because like one day they just let you out and it's like, what the fuck do you think I'm going to do? Yeah. Like I'm just out now.

Speaker 2 Like, and it's like right by Skid Row. And they let you out at like 2 a.m.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, of course, I'm going to go do heroin and smoke crack. You know, so like, it, it,

Speaker 2 of course, there's like, there, there has to be a better approach. But like, you know, there was like the 2020 stuff where like the decriminalization of crime basically and like that's not working.

Speaker 2 You know, just being like, we're just not going to send people to jail for like doing violent crime. Like that's not really a good approach.

Speaker 1 So they're walking that back pretty hard right now.

Speaker 1 If we're hitting like Bill Clinton, we're like tough on crime Democrats or in our near future being

Speaker 2 at the DNC. They were like, Kamala was a tough prosecutor.
And Kamala was a tough prosecutor.

Speaker 2 Like I'm from Oakland, California, like where she was, you know, she was a DA of San Francisco, and she was fucking too hard.

Speaker 2 I mean, she was like sending parents to jail for like if their kids miss school and shit. Damn.
Yeah, she was hard, man.

Speaker 2 But clearly, like, they're doing this like really quick 180, like, this bitch will put you in jail.

Speaker 1 Like, vote for her.

Speaker 2 And, like, I don't think it's going to work. I mean, we see what's going on.
Like, I don't, you can't do that quick of a 180 on that shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, no, she was chill. She was hard.
I think then she was like, I'm almost chill herself.

Speaker 2 Yeah, then she got really chill, I guess.

Speaker 1 But now she might flip back and be like, look, I I can slam the gap.

Speaker 2 I don't think she has like

Speaker 2 a creed or like a, you know, she just, it was really hot at the time to like be super hard ass, you know, tough on crime, like, you know, the 90s, uh, the Clinton, you know, the crazy crime bill and all that.

Speaker 2 So she just was kind of going with the times, and then the times changed, you know, and then it goes to like, okay, I'm going to bail people out for like burning down Minneapolis.

Speaker 2 So I actually, I, you know, I know you were in Portland. I actually moved to Portland in June 2020.
Oh, not a great month to move to Portland. Yeah, what happened?

Speaker 1 Because I I kept thinking that Chaz was in Portland. That's Seattle.
That was Seattle. That kind of fucked me up.
That was my whole five minutes opening and coming out. I was like,

Speaker 1 I'm going to make fun of these guys forget having like lesbians take control of their city for six months.

Speaker 2 Well, no, Chaz was like all of downtown Portland. And I had a black girlfriend.

Speaker 1 Oh, so they set it up like that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I went there with a black girlfriend, not a weird month to move there with a black girlfriend to Portland.
And her dad was like, Don't, I don't, you can't take my daughter to Portland.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't want her around all those crazy white people burning down the city.

Speaker 1 it was it was a crazy time but portland's cool man portland's cool i liked it so you went there though and it was like because people at now are like damn is it like still up and i was like no no no it's it was fine it was fine it was like it was as intense as the jazz there in 2020 it was fucking intense it was intense like spiritually like everyone was just like i was running into people i like left because there was too many like

Speaker 2 guys that like dressed like security guards that were like, I'm they, them. Like, you got to call me they.
And I was like, you look like a dude, you know, like, it's really hard for me to do that.

Speaker 2 There was just just a lot of like it was just really hard like that and like you know I people were just not chill at all and it got it's went super far and then now there's kind of like an over correction

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 2 and it's kind of chill now I think people and honestly like you guys play a big role and I'm not you know I appreciate it I'm I mean like I don't want to sound insane right now but like you know podcasts like yours like you guys kind of like brought about this like spiritual awakening of like hey we just have to like we can stay retarded retarded like we can you know we can be cool you know and uh i think comedy really is like saving america hey this is gonna sound stupid but like i appreciate that man it's it well the problem i saw with a lot of the stuff was like you're at college you're trying to get pussy exactly see girls are like on this wild of like you know pretty much they're doing it for instagram and then it's like you know maybe they genuinely believe i shouldn't say like it's all fake but it's like They're doing a thing to appease some other force.

Speaker 1 This is a giant force in your life. And you're like, yeah, I'm a fucking they, them.
And it's like, I'm trying to get some fucking pussy.

Speaker 1 I'm not trying to get frozen out or labeled as like, you're like a boomer or whatever the fuck people say.

Speaker 2 No, everything comes down to I'm trying to get pussy. Cause I've realized that in my head, like every decision I've ever, like, if there was no pussy, like I wouldn't shower.

Speaker 2 Like, I would, I would shower once a week or something. You know, like, it's just every decision that a man makes really comes down to that.
So, like, yeah, there was just a lot of that.

Speaker 2 And there was a lot of, like, even when, like, you know, like when you're guys, I was listening to your podcast and I was like, can I even tell people that I'm listening to this shit?

Speaker 2 Like, after the Shane shit? And then now it's like to get pussy year. Like, I listen to the Matt and Shane podcast.

Speaker 1 Girls are like, there's girls. The girlfriends have come and wives are coming to our own.

Speaker 2 Girlfriends have come. Yeah.
Yes. They've opened their eyes.

Speaker 1 There was a weird, that was a weird thing, I think. I don't know what it was, man, because everyone thought they were doing like the right thing.

Speaker 1 They're like, yeah, I'm on the right side of history now. And it's like, the one thing I will give the like wild ass SJWs from, you know, they did all that stuff for a long time.

Speaker 1 They did, you know, and you can, you can hate this, but they did raise a lot of issues into the public consciousness. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They kind of really like cracked everyone's head open with a hammer and they're like, think about this. And everyone's like, fuck you guys.
I'm not thinking about this.

Speaker 1 So they did do, you know, if you look back at like the last few years, it's like people are a lot more kind of like the average person is way more forward-thinking than they were, you know, in like the 90s and you know, early 2000s.

Speaker 1 So they did put a lot of like, you know, things into people's heads. Like, you know, like, if you're black, it's like kind of weird and way different than being white.

Speaker 1 And you're like, shut up and get a job. You bump.
Like, it's like that now. People have, I think, from all that stuff, have a more kind of nuanced approach to reality with like social issues.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But they're like, what they say to do about it, their solutions are so bad.

Speaker 2 Their solutions are really bad and are really hurting the people they're trying to help.

Speaker 2 Certainly, like, listen, it's really good that we're thinking about these things. And, and, uh, you know, I kind of already did because I'd been to jail and I was noticing patterns.

Speaker 2 I was like, damn, like, you know, I went to jail for like five days when I sold that Percocet to the cop or whatever.

Speaker 2 And my friend Toning Taylor, named Toning, very odd name, but I was in a midnight mission with him. He did like five years for like the same shit.
And he was a black guy. And I was like, God damn.

Speaker 2 Like, and he was like, what? And he was, he was a black Israelite dude. So he liked me because I'm half Jewish.
And, you know, we talk, we talk, we'd had Jew talk, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was like, damn, he really opened my eyes to some shit. I was like, God damn, man.

Speaker 1 So, um, yeah, they get crushed. Black kids get crushed pretty hard.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I was, so, so it wasn't.

Speaker 1 But it's harder for us once we get there because we can't do gay stuff.

Speaker 2 So kind of the inverse of, yeah, inverse of real life.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, dude, my friend was in a, um, one of those like kind of,

Speaker 1 I don't know, I've never seen anything like this, but it wasn't, so it was technically that part of it was a halfway house. The other part were for like repeat offenders, people who violated parole.

Speaker 1 It was just this giant warehouse in Philly, and you would just, just go to this warehouse and just live in these rooms of like 40 dudes.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't, it was technically a jail, but it wasn't any, like you didn't go to like the penitentiary.

Speaker 1 It was just like this holding thing specifically for parole violators if they were had to do like six months or something. Yeah.
And he said it was run, the whole place.

Speaker 1 was just run by like there it was uh there's like these black muslim ladies in charge of it and he was like dude for real i don't want to cry racism but he's like this is so hard to be white this place he's like you just

Speaker 1 you could just like i could bring him in clothes and stuff i could bring him in anything really cigarettes all this stuff i had to give it to a like in a trash bag to this black muslim lady she would go through and he was like dude the drugs here are rampant because you can just stitch heroin into like the waistband of sweatpants and they they're just like they're just running the muck in here where it's like there's drugs are being fueled everyone's just making money off this place yeah but he was like and then you just get sent here against your will he's like you're trying to get clean he's like it's just party time yeah so black muslim ladies seem to run the philly airport yeah i was at the the Philly airport like a week ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they got a nice stronghold on that.

Speaker 1 No, but they were killing it.

Speaker 2 They like got me a refund on my flight and shit. So

Speaker 1 dude, they're fucking sweet. It's funny.

Speaker 1 Because if you're like, if you're like a white dude just kicking around, I always assume like black Muslim ladies don't like white people.

Speaker 1 You just, you see the gear and you're like, I could see them not being a huge fan of me. But yeah, when you get to know them, they're very sweet.
Yeah, they were chill. They're very cool.

Speaker 1 They're very cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, another thing about the whole like awakening thing was like my felony, there was some real criminal justice reform where like I actually am not not a felon anymore oh that's cool so like they kind of did you know and that makes sense like that's good like hey i've behaved for seven years like it can we get rid of the felony seven years is a good number too yeah like can i it's a jubilee yeah exactly yeah exactly jewish jubilee yeah so i was like you know can i get a job at walmart finally like i you know can i not be a felon and uh so good like that happened but then there was like criminal justice reform went like a little too far where it was like you can just like bonk ladies on the head with like a bat and not go to jail like that's not good you know but no one wanted to be the guy locking people up.

Speaker 1 It wasn't, like, politically good.

Speaker 2 Not politically good. But I guess now it is.

Speaker 1 It's because now you can become the big like hero. Because before we had a, we had a guy, who the fuck was he? Larry Krasner, the DA in Philly.
And he was like. Bad.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 They were called him Let Him Go Larry. That was, and I knew, like, back then, like, I was like, I knew dudes were like, like, selling weed and stuff.
He's like, oh, let him go, Larry.

Speaker 1 Dude, we love Larry Krasner. Like, it's the wrong guy speeding.
Like, this guy rules. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it's like, it becomes like if you're a DA and you have political aspirations and it becomes like like not politically cool to lock people up, you're like, let's just not lock people up for now.

Speaker 1 And the city completely goes into disarray because you kind of maybe want to become like a congressperson. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like, yeah, you can't really, you know, people are out here doing, that's the thing, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Like in jail, it's like 90% of the crimes are committed by like literally like 5% of the population across like race and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they say that, yeah. And shoplifting, especially.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So it's like, yeah, snatch these people up.

Speaker 2 And if they're on drugs, it's like, okay, let's figure out a situation where we maybe mandate them to a long-term treatment center.

Speaker 2 But we have to like really like look at this like, hey, we're not just like trying to like check boxes here.

Speaker 2 Like we're really trying to like change this person's life and like give them a life worth living.

Speaker 2 And like we should really like, I needed purpose, you know, like I need, like I, I was a finished carpenter.

Speaker 2 So like I eventually like I got out and like I had like a job that not only paid like a decent wage, but it gave me fulfillment. And I was like, I'm building things.
I'm helping people.

Speaker 2 I'm like making beautiful, you know, I'm making houses beautiful and all that.

Speaker 2 Like we need to like find what people are passionate about, what they can excel at, and like really set them up for a life where it's like, hey, you can afford a one-bedroom apartment right out of here.

Speaker 2 Like, you, you can feel good about it. It's like you're not just going to go get a job at Chipotle and want to kill yourself.
And then, like, you know, so

Speaker 2 we just have to really, I mean, this is like a spiritual problem that is plaguing America.

Speaker 2 Like, if you go to any city, like I live in Oakland, California, and it's like, you know, it's totally fucked up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. And it is sad, too, when you take all these people in jail and it's scary.
They're all like tattoos and like career criminals.

Speaker 1 But I do believe at the root of it, it's just like there was a, they were once once a kid in a very loveless environment. And obviously, like, there's, there's, uh, that's like a continuum, obviously.

Speaker 1 There's some people who like got it, but it was, there's like other bad stuff mixed in, but then there's people who like just never, ever in their life had like anybody care about them at all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's like, you're, that's, I think that's the real root issue when you're dealing with people like, you know, jail, anything, really. Yeah.
It's like, dude, how the fuck?

Speaker 1 And you're going to try to correct that in like an environment that, you know, you obviously need to like take precautions for society. But yeah, it's really sad.
It's one of those things.

Speaker 1 It's like very, very sad. And And I think there is a, hopefully we'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 Hopefully we'll figure out a way because you can't go to Kumbaya and be like, just give him a guitar and send him out.

Speaker 1 And so he just bangs someone in the head with a hammer and you're like, God damn it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Or like we're doing this thing where we're just giving people apartments in San Francisco and then they're on fentanyl.
So they just die in their apartment immediately.

Speaker 2 So it's like, we can't really do that. I understand the argument, like homeless, what's the solution? Home.
Like give them home, you know?

Speaker 2 And it's like, okay, but if you're addicted to fentanyl, you're just going to like be alone and OD on fentanyl. So

Speaker 2 yeah, man, there has has to be like a more comprehensive approach. And like, you know, people are like, oh, it's going to cost so much money.

Speaker 2 And it's like, we're like, San Francisco spends over a billion dollars a year on homelessness and it's just gotten worse and worse and worse.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it's like, I don't think money is the issue. Like we have the money.
We just have to like redirect it into a way that is actually productive.

Speaker 2 But it's right now it's so set up to just like, you can just launder so much money if you start a nonprofit. You know, it's so easy to start a nonprofit.
It's like, I hand out crack pipes.

Speaker 2 Give me, you know, a $2 million contract.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, you just have to rethink all the stuff.

Speaker 1 Nonprofits are, I didn't realize how, because I, worked at one before when I was in social work school, and I was like, this is like, and it wasn't like out and out, like a total scam, but it was kind of like, dude, you guys can tighten this thing up.

Speaker 1 Like, it becomes incentivized to be like, just have someone show up, sign a box. It's like, yeah, but you could have like five appointments in one to make this guy's life easier.

Speaker 1 And like, we'll get 200 bucks every time they show up.

Speaker 1 You dirty motherfucker. Yeah.
But it's,

Speaker 1 yeah, I don't know. I've remain homeful.
I think, I think something will happen, but it is weird. This is the most, is this like the most homeless people we've ever had?

Speaker 1 Like, traditionally, like, I'd imagine historically, because I know there was always homeless people, but now it's like you go down to cities and you're like, dude, this is, it's like younger people just hit the rails, dude.

Speaker 1 And it's like, you see guys in like the 30s or 20s and you're like, bro, like, what the fuck, man? Yeah. I think, I think there is something to it, man.

Speaker 1 There's that like spiritual malaise where it's like, there's no point to anything. What's the point? I'm never going to be, you know, X, Y, and Z.
And like, nobody has that.

Speaker 1 It's hard to find like the joy in a like, you know, a relatively simple life. Like you're saying, like, I'm doing, I can go, I can take pride in my work.
I can do my thing.

Speaker 1 Now there's just, it's just like everyone's so atomized it's not like i'm part of a nice community i'm part of everything's just off on like a their own individual journey that you know typically when you're just by yourself it just leads to like intense frustration and despair anyway yeah yeah there's a lack of hope yeah what's this oh yeah it rose 12 from 2022 to 2023 that's uh that's pretty bad right that's pretty bad that's a gigantic leap it rose 64 in san francisco from the year 2016 to 2022 and in at the same time spending on homelessness increased by 500%.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's crazy, man. Like, you know, and there's no hope.
You know, it's like we live in a time when it's like you can work really hard, you can get that raise, you can get that promotion.

Speaker 2 And it's like, you're still not buying a house. Like, I know.
That's just like, you can't start a family. People aren't getting married.
People aren't having kids. Like,

Speaker 2 it's tough. Hopefully, we come out of this.
Hopefully, whoever wins the presidency, either one of them just makes this shit better.

Speaker 2 Will they do it? Probably not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely not.

Speaker 1 But we'll see. Definitely, definitely.
I tell everyone, buy your book. Your book's awesome, dude.
Jared, thank you. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the buying smile.

Speaker 2 If you can't afford it, hit me up. I'll send you a copy or I'll send you like a PDF.
I am not a big reader. I know that's a surprise.
I wrote a book, but I can't read.

Speaker 2 If you can't read, you're looking for the audio book. It's not here yet.
But if you buy a copy of the book, it will encourage my publisher to push for the audio book.

Speaker 2 And then I'll send you a link to the audio book for free if you show me that you bought the book.

Speaker 1 So the publisher is weary about doing the audio book?

Speaker 2 They're weary. It's just like it's a different

Speaker 2 legal setup with the contract and and it's just going to take time.

Speaker 2 I don't know, but like, this will, if it does good sales, they'll push for it faster, and then like, I'll send you like a lime wire link to the fucking audiobook or something.

Speaker 1 You know, I'll figure it out, but uh, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna try to push that through quickly, nice, man, yeah, yeah, tell them to knock it off, tell them to do it, be like, dude, just give me your recording time, you can record it in like 20 hours, man.

Speaker 2 I know, I know, yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah, but it's like it's just a different, you know, it's legal agent shit, you know. I don't know, who knows?

Speaker 1 Well, dude, thank you so much for coming to the show.

Speaker 2 It's an honor, man. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 I appreciate it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Ah, the sounds of an Etsy holiday.

Speaker 2 Now that's special. Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy.
For gifts that say, I get you, shop Etsy. Tap the banner to shop now.