72: Mean Smart Loser with Matthew Broussard | Soder Podcast | EP 70

I am at the funny bone in Richmond, Virginia, April 4th and 5th.

Gonna do four shows in Richmond, Virginia.

I think it's called Short Pump, but it's uh it's the funny bone.

I love that club.

It's very fun.

And I'm bringing Brendan Sagalow with me.

And then if you are in Spokane, Spokane, Washington, last time I was there, you gave me a horrific case of food poisoning.

I had to fight fighting off sweats and throwing up.

Well, guess what?

This time, I'm not eating your shit Caesar salad.

That's right.

I'm only eating stuff that won't make me sick because I want to enjoy my time in Spokane.

And I'm not like these East Coast comics that call it Spokane or boo-boo boo.

It's Spokane, Washington, and I respect you.

I'm going to be at the Spokane Comedy Club.

May 1st through the 3rd.

Five shows, one Thursday, two Friday, two Saturday.

Spokane Comedy Club, May 1st through the 3rd.

Dansoder.com for tickets.

That's what we do.

That's why we cut the mics.

That's why they're back on.

You guys just missed 30 minutes of just absolute.

There might be a time, if I get like a terminal illness of anything, I might just start doing a podcast where I have people talk shit and I go, none of this is being recorded.

And then I go, and then I just go, by the way, we're releasing that.

And so I would get your affairs recorded all of it.

That was all recorded.

Now a word from our sponsors.

Yeah.

you go, dude, that's crazy, man.

Should we get to the podcast?

And then, like, 45 minutes, I go, oh, my brother in crowd.

We're in it.

Bloody, buddy, buddy.

That would be the ultimate move where you go, just make some phone calls before this episode.

That's, I might, dude.

That's how people are going to know I'm dying of an illness.

If I just come with the fucking heat, I just bring in all these people and be like, what do you really think of them?

And they're like, this is a recording, right?

You go, nah.

I killed them.

I killed them all.

And I burped that way too.

That's not how you spell Beverly.

But I'm fascinated talking to swimmers as someone that wasn't.

He wasn't my dad.

We didn't have a good relationship.

I'm sorry.

But he was phenomenal at swimming.

And so there was pride.

It's crazy to have pride in a person that you don't like.

Really?

Yeah.

You're proud of him for being a good swimmer?

He was awesome, dude.

Yeah.

He swam in college collegiately.

Uh-huh.

I think the junior Olympics.

Uh-huh.

So he was really good and then he got back into it.

I might not mean really good.

Laura is my fiancé would be like, oh, now he's mad.

Oh, really?

She's also like, she was like, she was a national champion.

She was incredible.

She was one second off the American record.

She was silver at World, like really, really good.

Maybe the best athlete you know.

So that's like if you played

just any other sport and then your wife was like a Hall of Famer where she's like, well.

Yeah.

I consider myself a bad swimmer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was not.

But I think to the layman, to the regular person.

Sure, yes.

You would crush him.

It's a lot like stand-up in that very, very few people have even proficiency at it.

And if your friend can actually do stand-up but get laughs and not bomb locally, you're like, oh, that guy's a comedian.

You know him?

And you're like, yeah, but he's not like

a master of the crash.

Chappelle's not like, oh, I heard about your friend Eric.

Yes, he did three dissents and got two laughs.

Yeah.

Everybody's talking about him.

Honestly, you know, Chappelle would do that.

He's very supportive of young talent, if you haven't noticed.

That was was my brain when I was coming up that that like sitcom moment was going to happen where Dave Chappelle was going to be like, my bus broke down and I came into laughs in Tucson.

Who is this white kid on stage?

And I was just in an oversized Adidas shirt.

That's so funny.

But it doesn't happen like that.

Instead, you have to do sexual favors with the industry.

For the industry.

You think doing it for men's bad, but doing it for the women's much worse.

I mean, dude, the industry is just taking a beating on every fucking.

There is like it's this is how bad the entertainment business is right now we'll get back to swimming but the entertainment business is so bad that there is a legitimate part of me that feels bad for all these people that worked that told me no my whole career I feel bad for them now because shit's just caving in on them yeah and they're just like well we're we're probably gonna green light sign it's just like rocks falling down on desks the gatekeepers yeah i miss them i think i was i was a little gatekeeper darling i had a lot of doors open for me i think you were as well we had i had phonin i had new faces i had a half hour comedy central yeah comedy central was very nice to me here's what i'll say about comedy central and the in the gatekeepers

it was like um almost like a uh a level you could level up you saw how you leveled up you're like if i did live at gotham

i would then get a half hour If my half hour was good,

I would get...

An hour.

Yeah, that used to be a thing.

A comedy visual hour.

But then you realize that because I did an hour with Comedy Central and they aired it twice.

Yeah.

In the age of the stream, they were like, great.

Yeah.

They were going to, and I, and so, but there was still this like, I do this, I do this, and then I do this.

Whereas now you go like one joke and they're like, Carly Ray Jepson retweeted it.

It's like, you're going to want to check your inbox.

Are you sitting down?

Yeah.

You just sold out the rose bowl and you're like oh that's why when people were so mean to like these guys that got influx of uh like matt rife specifically caught a lot of but there were like a lot of people where you go i don't think that's much is him as it was just like we've all been trying to find a vein of gold and then someone found a giant vein of gold and you were like he doesn't even deserve it he doesn't know how to mine yeah he's not open the hills I,

he did work.

Yeah.

A different thing is the gatekeepers, I didn't understand their role and I knew they would keep people out if they were inexperienced or hacky.

And what I didn't realize is they were keeping the hacky people out knowing they would be successful.

Yeah.

That blows my mind.

I didn't even think of that.

I think about it all because the people who got through, have gotten through recently who have gotten to massive success.

I'm like, there's no way.

I'll fucking say, yeah.

No, I won't name them, but there's no way a specific Comedy Central exec we know would go, this needs to be on TV.

They'd be like, I've heard every one of these jokes before.

There's nothing original happening here.

It makes my ears bleed.

I don't care how

loud the crowd is laughing.

And then those people just happen to put their clips, their own clips on TikTok, and they're like, arena comics.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that really was.

There were like...

The gatekeeper.

I never thought about the gatekeepers going like, no, that would work.

I'm not protecting you.

I'm protecting them from you.

Like, you're locked in here with me thing.

You're like, I didn't even think about it.

They're like, this could do grave harm if it was released.

And then it just got released.

This bioweapon.

It's spread like a plague.

It really is.

And the way they talk about it, it's viral.

Like, it's sected everything.

And you're like, oh, fuck.

It's killing in states, different states.

That's always why I've always loved sports is because

meritocracy.

There really is this thing of like, they put in the work, they had natural talent, they got to where it is.

There was like, now, granted, if you're like a football fan and you hate the Kansas City Chiefs, like a guy like me, you could go, well, they just throw flags and like they give him another chance.

And they're like, they'll give him a homes,

you know, he'll get tackled and they'll be like, you know what, that was rough in the passer.

And if you're watching football, you're like, that's unfair.

But he's still completing passes.

driving down the field and scoring touchdowns.

Yeah.

And I think that's going to be something that like young generations have no idea used to be a thing.

Where it's like, oh, no, no, no, you had to be like good

to move forward.

I do

feel a lot of comfort lately in that an efficient market does

sort things out.

I think the last five, maybe a little more years, there were people who were getting rewards for being the first to

the pasture, I guess.

It's mining.

It's mining.

Yeah.

We're just able to put out, a lot of people do that.

There's a new platform.

They find the optimal length and the optimal thing.

Or do you think that's just a market correction?

Do you think people are like, there's too much crowd work?

That too.

A market correction also does push.

I still think good crowd work is fantastic.

Yeah.

I mean, Big J is putting out a crowd work special on YouTube.

The best.

And he's like, he showed it to me and I was like, oh, this is phenomenal.

Yeah.

Show people how it's done.

This is phenomenal.

I am a big fan of good people putting out good work.

When you were swimming, did you have like a moment where you saw someone that was so good that you're like, oh, I just suck?

I started bad.

Okay.

And I was so motivated by how bad I was.

I couldn't swim.

You're drowning in the pool.

Like, this guy has zero talent.

I could get a, I mean, obviously I could get across the pool, but i was a decent runner and when it came to swimming i thought it would translate but then the thing that's very demoralizing about swimming is that age size and gender are much less of a factor um against uh just basic proficiency it's almost like speaking a language yeah if you learned it young you'll always know it and if you net if you didn't learn it young you'll always be catching up but i got in the pool my first practice and i had there were six lanes and i swam in the slowest of lanes with um overweight women.

And my my ego couldn't take that.

And they were, they were blasting me because they had good they had good efficiency and good form and i just wanted to swim and then you like actually had to learn how to swim fast not just like swim yeah correctly yeah because most people get did it click for you

never fully clicked just slowly over the course of five years i built up to a point where like i could have been a i probably could have been a low-end walk-on on a d3 team and it would have been like

there's d3 there's a lot of range in d3

but like it's still impressive chris destefano is a two-time d3 all-american in basketball and you're like like really that's fucking crazy that's basketball basketball is competitive not so many people swim

just the swim world here's the thing about about a sport like swimming uh-huh it is its own world football bleeds onto stuff baseball bleeds onto stuff basketball bleeds onto year-round something

you have to go it's it's something that you go into a world and find that i had zero idea about when i was a kid yeah and then my mom started dating joe and we were like we've got to go to these swim meets i was like what the fuck you mean i never had to sit at a pool.

I always got to swim in the pool.

Yeah, no, I mean you show up and you're like, what the fuck you mean?

I got to just sit here and watch.

Yeah.

And it's old dudes.

I get mad at people that go to pools leisurely.

I'm like, no, people lane.

This is for exercise.

That's like people who give wedding speeches.

I go, do bits.

You can't just be talking.

You should do bits.

But it is a thing you can't dabble in.

It's just so hard.

You have to also like stand up.

You have to do it every day for years and years.

How early were you going to the pool?

Oh, in college, I did 6 a.m.s a lot.

God, waking up to work out

early.

Even

though adults that do it, I'm like, and I know people are like, it's better than a cup of coffee waking up and running cinnamon.

And I'm like, how?

I get up at 9 a.m.

and I'm like, ugh.

My day is worse if I work out.

That kind of workout, 6 a.m.

swim, I'm going to have a worse day because of it.

Do you still swim?

Yes.

Every day?

Two, three days a week.

And I just work on form now.

Did you wear a cap?

I have have to, yes.

Yeah.

Do you feel the drag of your hair?

No.

No, they just make me at the pool.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

They're like, that fucking lock, they're like, those locks are going to clog up the drain.

They make you toss it on.

They're like, hey, cowboy, throw on a rubber.

We're not fucking cleaning up your hair.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Corpus Christi, Texas, in Atlanta, Georgia.

No shit.

Can I tell you something?

You strike me as more.

Connecticut.

Connecticut, New England, white

than Texas, Georgia.

My dad was Cajun white trash and was very ashamed of us and raised us to be very

professoral and speech.

No way.

He was kind of his whole arc was getting away from the bayou.

So your dad was like, don't you get in that water?

Is that your biopic?

You go, I want to swim, dad.

He goes, no son of mine going to get in the water with the gators and all the clapping.

That's so funny.

He spoke like me.

No hint of an accent.

He had one as a kid.

He dropped it and his brothers kept it.

He just didn't get along with that part of the world.

Sure.

He was a very educated man, very smart man.

Possibly Asperger's, just a very, just like very serious, like could spend 10 hours working on a spreadsheet and would tell you all about it.

And he was a chemist.

So he was an intense guy.

He was

when he was focused, but he was a sweetheart.

He wasn't like, he was a really nice, loving, warm guy.

And a chemist.

A chemist.

You had a very intelligent father.

He was was very smart.

He had 20 patents to his name.

He was a smart guy.

Yeah.

Is that intimidating?

It was just normal to me.

It was just how it was.

Did you have any siblings?

I have an older brother.

How older?

Five years.

Okay.

He's an engineer.

We were all just, my mom was a master's microbiology.

So we were just, it was just our thing.

We were just, school is the thing you do.

You work hard in school and you get a good job.

And that's how life goes.

Your family would rip at trivia.

You ever think about putting a band together?

Yeah.

Am I?

Going on fucking family feud and watching Harvey bleed out of his ears.

He's like, now you do what?

That is so fucking crazy.

That's a very smart family.

I think it's like, my mom was well-educated, but my dad's family was like...

Was she rich?

No.

You grew up poor, right?

No, I didn't grow up poor.

I grew up fucking right in the middle class.

I grew up suburban.

I mean, the thing that I feel bad that I don't know how many younger generations are going to have it, but just like single mom, you could live in the suburbs.

That's interesting.

You know?

Yeah.

I don't, I don't, I think there was a fear of money, but she did a good job hiding it for the most part.

When you're, when you have a single mom,

sometimes you see the crack.

You'll see them crack because they're people and they're just like, it's just a lot.

That's it's like, you know, you know that meme of that black lady outside the fast food with her hands like It's like a famous picture on the internet.

People use it for a meme, but it's like a lady on break at like a Wendy's.

And you're like, you see that when you have a single parent because they're just like, there's no tagging out.

They just got to do the whole thing.

So I would see moments like that where I would, you know, just be like a little kid and be like, I want this.

I want this.

And my mom's like, where the fuck do you think we're getting this money?

Like, you become aware of money very young.

And how many siblings?

I didn't have any growing up.

I had an older half-sister, my dad's first kid, but I grew up an only child pretty much.

Your dad dad bounced, right?

Yeah, five, gone.

They broke up.

So that's why I always think, but my dad was smart in the way that bartenders are smart.

Yes.

Trivia smart.

He was.

He was like amazing.

Like when I'd visit him, we'd watch Jeopardy and I'd be like, motherfucker, go on this show.

What are you doing?

But he was just a guy that like

liked to read and get fucked up.

And that was like it.

What'd your mom study?

My mom was like, I don't know what my mom studied in college.

I actually generally, I think she was like a theater major, but my mom worked in insurance.

My mom was like one of those people where

that old school, like, work even if it sucks.

You work and then you work more.

And she was like, I worked.

So everything was like based around work.

But my mom was very conscious of that.

And so she always, when she was like raising me, she was like, would, would really stress, like, do what you love.

Like, if you can find what you love and you're able to do it, you'll be all right.

Wow.

And that was like a very important lesson.

We had the opposite.

Really?

Yes.

Your parents were like, eat your vegetables.

It'll be fun.

My parents were like, you're not going to, if it's fun, you're not going to make money doing it.

Really?

Truly.

And they were like, you're not handsome enough to be a model or an actor.

You're not charming enough to really make it into all that.

Disagree, disagree.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

And knowing you're walking around in a speed-o,

all-confident, absolutely, you could model.

I would swim in a wrestling singlet.

That's my body issues.

Like an Olympian from the 1920s.

I'd be like, why, this thing's made out of wool.

And it almost dragged me to the bottom of the pool.

Like Johnny Weiss Mueller.

That's a reference you should look up.

Yeah, dude.

One of the original Olympians.

That's right.

So your parents were like, if it's fun, you can't.

I was good at math not to be immodest.

I showed early, it is immodest, sorry, but I showed early aptitude.

I showed skill for that very early.

And it was a thing I also really liked.

I happened to really enjoy math.

How far along in math did you get?

I went to, it was my degree, so I learned.

You got a degree in mathematics applied math yeah no

way this is like

i i just you should that showed how stupid i am because i'm genuinely like what you can

number i'm so bad at math i think

like understanding can math conceptually uh-huh i probably stopped at geometry really like algebra geometry and then i was like drugs and then i was like oh i get fucked up.

I swear to God.

You were taught poorly is the truth of it.

And we still don't know how to teach math well.

Math is in a certain place.

Math has progressed to its point, but math education, it's just people who are good at math lack social aptitude generally.

And when you're good at math,

your brain offloads a lot of the processing in ways you aren't even conscious of.

And you can't help people understand that part because really good mathematicians go, I don't know.

I've just, it just exists in my head already in that form, and I can't get you there.

Yeah, it feels like one of those

pictures where you relax your eyes and you see it.

Yes, very much.

And I could never do those.

I felt like mall rats where I was like, I can't fucking see the thing.

I'm just like, I can't see it.

Dude, I would get so frustrated.

But I remember, and you said, and I don't disagree that it's poor.

It's taught poorly.

Yes.

I will take some of the blame.

And I want to apologize to Mr.

Gomez in your second period, my junior year, brought a lot of Fader Aids to school.

We'd pop a little vodka in a Gatorade, get a little hot chest for the third and fourth period.

But I was a horrible student because I, by the time I was 16, I was just like, I liked reading, but I didn't like anything else.

I was just kind of like, I fucking, why am I math?

Are you a big reader?

Yeah.

I'm bad at reading.

Really?

Yeah.

What do you mean you're bad at concentrating on it?

Yes.

It's very hard.

I was always a little behind in reading.

I was in remedial reading.

No shit.

By the end of high school, I was doing well on like the verbal section just because it was where I needed to put in the work of the SAT.

Having academic parents like that, did they tell you like put in your reading work?

One of the hardest parts of my childhood, which admittedly was a very easy childhood, was my parents being like, why aren't you fucking reading?

Just go read.

Just go read.

Why can't you read?

And I would sit down to read and you just, I have that thing that a lot of people have.

I think maybe it's ADD, but I just, I examine each word and process each word, but they don't turn into sentences and sentences don't turn into paragraphs.

And I finish a chapter and I'm like, I wasn't wasn't even there for that my brain was somewhere else yeah i would say that uh both my parents are huge readers love reading my dad uh my grandmother but my mom my mom very uh quickly was like here's what we're gonna do every summer i want you to read two classics

um

you can pick them uh but i have to approve them and you're just gonna read them and i hated it i fucking hated it i was like 10 years old my mom was reading me making me read old man in the Sea.

Why do we do that?

Why not just like a Dan Brown book?

Yeah.

Why not Harry Potter?

Anything is good.

It did help because I got through

Old Man in the Sea and I read one other one.

And then I myself, I love Jurassic Park.

I was 10 when it came out, the movie.

Michael Crichton wrote Jurassic World.

And that was like a book that I remember bringing with me on the bus, like reading excitedly.

Sick boy.

Yeah, but I loved it because it was almost like it broke through to me that I was like, oh, oh, this is kind of like a movie in my brain, a little brain movie.

And that was like, for me, I was like,

I'm going to do my little brain movie.

And then when I was in college and shit, I loved reading nonfiction because I think I lacked a lot of self-esteem.

And I liked reading biographies about people like figuring themselves out and all this shit.

And then, so, but reading to me always was like a thing of like, well, yeah, just like, you just read.

But math, I fucking couldn't get it.

It's crazy because it's almost the exact way you described reading was how I felt about math.

I'd be like, well, that's a number.

I don't know why it's over that X.

I don't know what that fucking line's got to do with it, but I got to solve for this thing.

And I just, I couldn't do it.

There's, there's a process with match, math, which, because

I try to keep learning more.

Yeah.

Why not?

Do you do like math problems?

I, uh, like the way I read like a Stephen King book, are you like, I'm going to fucking run through this multiplication table?

That's how stupid I am.

Do you just get problems?

Multiplication tables are like, oh fuck, oh fuck, I'm ripping.

I'm fucking going so fast.

6M76M76.

Watch me go.

But do you do you like, do you get like difficult math problems and solve them?

I get

a little bit.

I get problems in my head that I want to work out.

That'll take, and I'll, sometimes I'll try to like see if I can do it myself.

And it'll maybe take weeks or months to figure out.

And I'll just kind of think about it casually.

And then sometimes I'll sit down.

When I get stumped with it, I'll just try to sit down and figure it out.

And there's like when you get when you figure it out is it uh it's the best feeling in the world is it well it's the joy remember where I am when it happened it's the joy of like finishing a book and being like

it's better than that by a lot really it's actually cracking a mouth I don't know if you've ever read East of Eden that heading is Steinbeck is a master

but yeah it's I could imagine it'd be like solving

it'd be like like those Dan Brown books probably are the books that you would love because there are puzzles and like those, yeah.

And like problems in it.

What do you read now?

Right now I'm going through a Stephen King phase.

I hated the stand.

I never read the stand.

It took three and a half months out of my life.

I tried to read a book a month and I was like, this ruined my year.

Now I'm going to boast it's not going to hit 12.

Yeah.

I mean, I did, I did a big dog that took me like seven months to get through.

And it was, honestly, as a reader, it wasn't even fun, but I read Dante's Divine Comedy.

And I did the whole thing.

And it's a fucking gnarly.

Yeah.

You get through it and you you go like, I'll take anything.

And I wanted something fun.

And St.

Germain, who loves to read, was like, I've never read Stephen King.

I'm kind of a scared.

I'm like a bitch.

Like, get scared about stuff really easy.

Even Big J would make fun of me because he's like, you don't watch horror movies?

I'm like, I get very scared.

But St.

Germain was like.

He recommends.

stuff in ways that you're it's like a stupid stupid if you don't yeah like a sage would at like the corner of a bar where he's like you ain't never read that you ain't never lived But he was like, Salem's lot from Stephen King.

It's it's phenomenal.

And so I just bought it on Amazon being like, Yeah, whatever.

And I fucking ripped through it.

Yeah, it's vampires?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good.

2,000 pages?

Uh, no, it was like 600, I think.

And then I turned around and read The Shining.

Uh-huh.

We were driving to Colorado and, you know, you're like, well, I might be going crazy.

I've gone there so many times, that hotel.

We go there like as a family.

Stanley.

Yeah.

You guys really got, you guys, my mom worked there in college.

yeah my mom was a waitress we go to esses park as a family yeah every year and we go to yeah the stanley hotel which is that's what it's based on stephen king stayed there with his wife and uh it's haunted do you not believe in ghosts no at all you're not you got math brain yeah it doesn't it doesn't compute yeah oh yeah yeah oh yeah reader brain

brain

brain will tell you ghosts are energy that are trapped

did you read sci-fi no not really i i really was like non-fiction I liked history books for a while, but I'm just the Stephen King phase.

It's very fun.

It's very spooky.

I finished The Shining.

I'm on to Doctor's Sleep, the sequel.

And then I'm going to...

How long does it take you to finish a book?

About a month.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

I'm not one of those people.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

Those people at the end of the year where they go online and they go, these are the 70 books that these are my top 50.

And you're like, top 50?

Here's my top 10.

The six I read plus four those again.

Yeah.

I think it's...

I had a doctor tell me it's much better for your sleep if you read before you go to bed instead of looking at your phone.

Yeah.

Because your eyes relax in a different way than looking at your screen because of the blue light.

So you like, if you're sitting there in a room and your face is the only thing.

I mean, dude, I do a thing where I wake up and look at my phone and I'm like, I'll catch myself and be like, what are you doing?

I really have to put limits on it.

And I read the wrong comments.

I'm like, the whole day is fucked.

Dog.

My feet, my socks haven't even hit the hardwood yet.

Here's what

when you're a public person, when you have a podcast, podcast,

when you're an influencer or a comedian or an actor or something, and you're in the public and you make stuff that people critique, which everything now is critiqued.

Everything now is critiqued.

And very publicly.

There's always this thing of, well, don't read the comments.

And you go,

yes, of course.

Curiosity.

is so much more powerful than you have any idea.

If you knew someone was talking about you in another room and you could go hear, just listen to it, most people would.

I wouldn't.

But that's what comments.

I'm so fragile.

I don't read comments.

Oh, so you're like, I'm really fragile.

It would ruin my day, and I know that about myself.

I don't go into the waters.

I don't go deep into the water.

Sure.

But I.

I'd like to read the top first five or whatever.

I have read comments.

I've read critical comments that I think are meant to be mean.

And I'll tell you this, found them helpful.

Really?

Yeah.

Like what?

Well, number one, I've been actively trying to listen to you instead of barging over your sentences with my jokes.

Fuck it, fuck at us.

Welcome to our new podcast, White Men Listening.

Sorry, you were saying?

There's just women right now.

They're like, oh, fuck, oh, fuck, oh, fuck.

Oh, fuck.

Put it on.

Look at those big ears.

Oh, my God.

They're taking all the sentences in.

He repeated what he said back to him, but in a comprehensive way.

Like, he comprehended it.

Yeah, I just, there, there are,

there's this age of like going, oh, those are just haters or whatever.

There are, there are people that, like, dude, if I fucking, if I had a job that I hated and I was in a relationship that I hated and I watched the amount of comedians that are on podcasts going, then I got to go on the road.

Then my hotel's not ready.

I'd be like, fucking die in a fire.

Yeah.

I understand that hate.

Uh-huh.

There are some people that just want to hurt you.

Yeah.

And sometimes you roll over in bed and you open Instagram and you go like, notifications.

And someone's like, this guy just sucks.

And you go like, oh,

you're like, I didn't have a good set.

And I think you're right.

And then you just roll over.

You're not looking at your phone anymore, but that is in your head.

And you're going like, you suck.

Sinks into you.

Have you ever seen some that are so mean that you're like, nah.

Dude.

That doesn't even bother me.

You're like, that's not even a fair critique.

There's some that I'm like,

this is in itself very funny.

Yeah.

I'm going to find this person and go like, this is a good joke.

I know you're aiming a gun at my head.

It's like someone putting a gun at your head and you taking it and going like,

it's a good gun.

You go, all right, back at it.

Yeah.

I saw a comment today

that was just like, was waiting for it to be funny.

And I was like, nah.

Yeah.

And then I realized it was on a different video that I know was funny.

And I was like, nah.

Yeah.

Or it changed when you are, when you, sometimes you want, you want it to be bad.

So then you put something out and you, you want people to confirm that it's not good because you know your heart knows.

Well, you're, you're, you're critical.

I, the question I had about your math brain is that's got to be good for joke writing.

Yes.

Because you just go like, like, I'm.

When it gets.

Louis C.K.

one time goes, yeah, you're, he described my comedy to me in a way that I was like, oh, that makes so much sense.

He's like, yeah, you're like, you're emotional.

Like, all your jokes are like emotional reactions.

And I was like, oh, I'm a bitch.

I was like, no, but when he said that, I was like, it was so succinct that I was like,

I play from the, I like, that's how my writing process is.

If something happens to me, those are the comics I love, like Bill Burr.

Louis, I would say, is a little like that, but he's also got math brain.

Yeah.

But I think the part of my writing that is hard for me is the math part is going like

this,

I got this and I have this.

What's this and this?

Meaning like in terms of just

the words and the I kind of know what I, the premise, I know what the premise is and I kind of know where I want to go with it.

How do I get there?

I feel like if I had a math brain, it would go like, well, then X solves for this.

And I, I,

Seinfeld as someone in here talk about comedy.

I'm like, on my best days, that is how I like to think about it is you just test a hypothesis and you get laughter or you don't and you rewrite it based on that.

Sure.

And if you take your feelings out of that, you can get pretty far.

But one problem I had for the first maybe seven years of comedy was I thought my only task, my only goal is to write perfect jokes about

honestly inconsequential things.

I like the minutiae.

I really like Gary Goleman.

He probably knows that

maybe he listens to my material.

Yeah.

But just that

perfection of material.

The state abbreviation joke is the best.

It's It's the best late night set ever.

When he brought it back, I've been a huge fan of Goldman and his writing.

I mean, the entire dome of comedy.

But Joe List used to open for Gary.

When I first moved to the city in 07,

and Gary and Joe both moved to New York at the same time,

Joe List was very much like, you got to watch this guy because it's like...

It's crafted.

It's much deeper.

And then when he brought that joke back, List was like, this was an old joke that he did that he has perfected.

Seven Seven years.

Yeah.

Seven years from inception to Conan.

And I watched it, him run it at the cellar and I was like, oh, this is,

this is perfect.

Like there's no, there's no wiggle room on anything.

Everything is done.

Michelle Wolfe writes like that.

Michelle Wolfe writes where there's like, there's nothing,

there's no waste.

It's just hopscotch from punchline to punchline.

List is like that too.

List is, it's, it's upsetting how good his writing is and how prolific he is.

But what I was lacking for my first seven years was not thinking I didn't need to ground my jokes in something emotional.

And I think every joke,

with a couple exceptions, it's so much better when a joke starts.

I was scared because I felt stupid because,

yeah, and I've learned to like really lean on experiences

when I had that feeling of being insufficient.

I think it's a connection.

I think by doing that, you connect.

You make people feel less alone.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's been times where I think I've gone up on stage and not even had a joke, but just been like,

This happened, it just like vomited out of my face.

Yeah, that'll get a laugh.

And you go, I wasn't even kind of going for a laugh on that, but I puked it out.

They're laughing because your suffering makes them feel better about their own lives.

Yeah, and that's great.

Yeah, that's why comics can never be cool, and we can never be

you can't be cool or sexy.

What's going on?

Why are people being so cool now?

Because being cool right now is

everyone's a commercial now.

Yeah, everyone is like everyone is good marketing.

Everyone is like, that's what comedy and music

because I saw.

Cool sells clothes.

Vulnerable doesn't sell Levi's.

Yeah.

You know, I think, yeah, it does.

Or honesty, where you go, like, that joke's not that good.

They go like, oh, then I don't want to watch.

But if they go like, this joke's going to blow your fucking mind.

Then they go, oh, no, am I in trouble?

And you go, maybe, but hop on my back and I'll take you to the sales.

And you go, no, man, this shit.

And I said, you're racist.

And everyone cheered for me.

This one guy goes,

I just did Sacramento Punchline.

And the guy was like, hey, I want to see in San Francisco.

Is the material going to be the same?

And I went, yeah.

I gave too honest of an answer.

And I went,

yeah, but it'll be like better.

Because you go like, well, I'm going to have more time to figure these out.

So I might have stuff in it that like makes the whole joke move faster.

Right.

But I'm not going to have like a whole new fucking hour because that's not going to be tested and like a, and it's not going to be kid tested and mother approved you know like kicks and it's also that last 20 if you're 80 there on a joke that last 20 doubles the quality of the joke it immediately i've had bits that i liked that really didn't work and then you figure out a punchline and you're like it's a spark plug you put it in you go oh that's reven that fucking goes yeah and that's fun that's the whole that's the fun part of any creative endeavor is having that mathematic brain where you go because i i think

to echo what you said exactly is I was too emotional when I started.

I would just come out and go like, I feel like this and I feel like this and fucking I feel like this, but I didn't have any like bop, bop, bop.

I didn't have like, that's a joke, that goes into that joke, that goes into that joke.

And the better I got, the more I realized, like, you can have an emotion, but it better come hand in hand with a bit.

And that's what's with a joke.

That's what's so satisfying is the kind of back and forth between, you know, it's pseudo-scientific, but left and right brain.

Here's something that's technically very sound and satisfyingly systemized and here is something that's raw and human yeah and and

not perfect in its shape there's people

and and that's why i to say that comedians are the funniest people on earth is such a big mistake

because i think a lot of funny is based on emotion and connecting with people and getting authenticity and authenticity and that's why construction crews will always be the funniest like blue collar workers will always be funnier and people that have suffered will always be much funnier like

a rich a fifth generation wealthy kid

has a tough time being funny unless you're gonna go like absurdist yes unless you're gonna go like my rents covered so now i'm gonna wear a spider-man costume with the butt cheeks cut out yeah and you're like and i'm bussy man and you're like Okay, why can you do that?

He goes, well, I tried it and my rent's been paid.

And you're like, well, there you go.

Like, I understand that.

Bussy Hall at Union Hall all week.

Go check out Bussy Man, the amazing Bussy Man.

Fucking Union Hall.

But I used to really,

I think I was really jealous of kids like that because I wanted to be absurdist and I wanted to be a little weird.

Me too.

And I was scared because my mom was like, dude, once you're 18, this is fucking done.

You're on your own.

And that's terrifying because you're just like, well,

I got to eat and live and do shit.

And I want to be a comedian.

Did your parents get mad when you told them you wanted to be a comedian?

They didn't like it.

I was very practical about it where I said, I'm not quitting my job until I have a full-time salary as a comedian.

Really?

And I meant that for myself more than for me.

I truly wanted to.

I was a financial analyst when I did my first Comedy Central set and I talked about it because I was so proud that I didn't have to make this my life.

I thought I was like, I always felt I was funnier when I wasn't a professional comedian, when I was just doing it as a sideline.

Yeah, because

it's like making love to your wife versus doing porn.

Yeah.

Where after a while, I don't care.

Porn has to become a job.

I know they're fucking, but after like, if you want to do it as a career, it becomes a point where you go like, oh, another double blow job.

Oh, oh.

And then you're like, at the end of the day, you're smoking a cigarette and you go, can't a guy just joke around with a girl?

Can't a guy just,

but I was like fourth tier in high school.

Like I was the fourth or fifth tier of my group of friends to get the girl.

Oh, okay.

Like they had to to drop.

They had to drop in the draft significantly.

Had to have a poor showing of something.

And then I'd be like, we'll draft her.

We'll take her with the 17th pick in the first round.

You were the Cornell of the Ivy League.

They were like,

Cornell's my, I was a safety school.

Yeah.

But I think like being funny raised that immediately where they're like,

as you get older and you realize you want.

certain uh traits in a partner, I think being funny was like, it exponentially grew as I got older.

Yeah.

It was like, oh, shit.

It was, yeah, I got percentage on it as it kept growing.

They were like, oh, this is more fun than like a dude with abs.

We're in our, I'm in my 40s now.

If he's got abs, he's got to put so much time into it.

It's so much work.

I smoke a half a bowl.

I'm a fucking, dude, I'll rip for three hours.

You know, I can't fuck all night, but I will make fun of a bad movie until your hips are sore.

There is an optimum that is very, very

far away from that, like Zach Afronbaud.

I don't think that's a really practical thing.

Oh, okay.

And I don't think women are really into that.

Luigi Mangione, he could fuck everyone in the country right now.

Oh, my God.

He could just come and touch your chin and you'd be like, you'd follow.

Like a smell in a cartoon.

You're like, oh, I'm yours.

But when you told your, I mean, you were a financial analyst.

So you were making.

That sounds fancy.

No, I was making a teacher's salary.

I was making $46,000 a year.

Where at?

In Houston.

For like one guy.

What mics did you start going to?

I went to,

what was it called?

It was the Laugh Stop originally.

It was both the same room.

Louis C.K.

recorded albums.

Dane Cook, Mitch Hadberg all recorded albums in the room.

Yeah, that was my first open episode in that room.

When Kinnison and Hicks were friends, right?

Or like Close was Laugh Stop in Houston.

Could be, yeah.

That's like a legendary.

But now it's a condo.

Is it really?

Yeah.

That's like how the original improv is an Italian restaurant on 55th.

I went back like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes when he sees

it all up.

That is cool, though, that that's, I mean, that's like a legendary place to start.

It was cool.

I didn't understand it at the time.

I had no, I didn't know, like, I wasn't, I knew comedy, but I wasn't one of those people who like studied it for years before they started.

I just was like, that seems really cool.

I'm going to go next week.

That's the way to get into it.

I was, I was,

I put it too much on a pedestal.

Yeah, people do that.

I was a giant comedy fan from the time I was like 10 on.

That gives you like a little performance anxiety for actually starting?

Yeah, dude.

I'll tell you what, I'm kind of nervous about doing Palace of the Fine Arts in San Francisco because that's where Dana Carvey taped Critics' Choice in 1995.

And that's like one of my favorite all-time specials.

I would say that probably influenced me to being a stand-up comic more than anything.

That and Killing Them Softly from Chappelle in 2000.

My answer would disappoint you as to mine.

Oh, I don't care.

What is it?

Uh, Donald Glover's Half Hour.

Great.

Donald Glover's comedy social half hour is phenomenal.

Yes.

Donald Glover's half hour wasn't as strong, but the half hour was really good.

He was super funny.

He is the reason the Creek in the Cave does comedy.

Did you overlap with him?

No, he was before me.

He was writing on 30 Rock when I started doing mics.

So him, his sketch group Derek

would do shows at The Creek in the Cave.

It was like a music space.

Rebecca just bought it, I think.

If I'm telling this wrong, Rebecca, I apologize.

And then Timmy from The Whitest Kids You Know,

him and John F.

O'Donnell started an

open mic called Kingdom of Heaven.

And it was

insane.

It was right when I moved to New York.

And I went there.

And I'm not lying when I say the lineup was

Rory Scoville, Kumail Nanjiani, Joe Mandy, Mark Norman, me, Joe List,

Dan St.

Germain, Mike Lawrence, like Dan Bolger from Boston.

I know Dan.

Dan's a monster.

Yeah.

So there were like all these people, and you would just go watch these people and be like,

oh,

I need to work on this.

And it was very fun.

It was, and it wasn't like they weren't doing regular comedy shows.

They were just doing that mic.

And then Rebecca was like, we're going to do comedy.

And then it became literally a clubhouse where you could just go.

And I bombed in that room over 50 times.

Hard.

I would go, if I was booked at a standing room,

I would go between shows and just watch the power hour, not go up.

Power hour is so fun.

Brutal.

Brutal.

They did a lot of really fun shows.

Sean O'Connor had this thing called Night Mike.

Sean O'Connor in LA now?

Yeah.

He was such a good comic.

He's hilarious.

I think he's like one of the fun.

His half hour is fantastic.

He's one of the funniest human beings.

And he's still writing jokes.

He wrote for Nikki on the Golden Globes.

yes he writes all that sean o'conner is i mean norm mcdonald loved him that's all the proof you need yeah like sean is so funny but he used to do this thing that was the best yeah i feel like a hipster right now but i'm like oh you like his golden globe jokes you missed night mike but night mike he would just do this random shit they used to do andy haines used to do this thing called midnight run where you would get really high the lucas brothers and andy haines i think it was but or i was on the show with the lucas brothers insane but it was it was i mean michael che came up there.

Like a lot of us, that's where we all hung out.

We did like real roasts back then.

Not this like a company's paying for it to be filmed.

It was like, please no cameras.

And it would be like, Nate, we roasted Bargei when he moved.

We roasted Giannis was the first big one.

It was so fun.

Some of those jokes made people very angry.

Nate was.

Like a clean roast battler?

Dude, Nate, Red State Nate, the only, there wasn't a battle.

There was no battle involved.

It was people were going up there and saying jokes that ended friendships.

Like, I remember the old patio at the creek after Giannis's.

Racine had like four jokes that he had to go around to people and be like, hey, I was just kidding about that.

Like, he just absolutely laid them out.

But it was like, that's why I kind of got a little, hey, stop eating your butt.

That's why I kind of got a little mad about the like

commercialized version of the roast.

Because you're like, this is supposed to be between people that are very close and it's only people in the room and you're saying wild shit about them.

Yes.

You're not following a format of like,

so-and-so is here.

So-and-so is so, so-and-so that so-and-so said that they had sex with them.

And it's like, I got it.

I also suck at roasting.

So this is like my...

I believe that, but sure.

I'm not good at it.

But when it's my friends and it's a closed room,

I'll let that chopper sing.

My issue with Rose Battle, I did see one in Austin.

I went and judged one of the ones at Mothership.

Those guys are unbelievable.

Dude, it was like, oh, this is good.

This wasn't bad.

It's unbelievable.

This is a great art form.

Yeah, I went and watched, I did the same at Mothership.

I hosted or judged a Rose Battle and I was like, you guys are so good at this.

And they didn't want to win.

They cared about their jokes and they didn't care about winning.

That should be how it goes.

You shouldn't actually want to win.

I'm just not good at that style.

Ty Rivera was the other judge, which is

very good at that.

That guy will burn down.

He'll set fire to anything.

Anything.

In a way that I kind of, I'm like blown away by.

Yeah.

It's fine.

I don't have half that chutzpah.

But when you tell your, so you're, you start doing mics in Houston.

When did you tell your parents?

Pretty shortly after.

I wasn't like coming out to them.

I was like, hey, I'm doing comedy now.

And they're like, cool, keep your job.

Don't give up your job.

So that was it.

Yeah.

They were also,

this is

somewhat weird of a thing for me to admit.

It's not a cool thing to talk about.

When I was in college, when I was 20 years old, a guy just walked up to me on the street and said, I work with the modeling agency.

Here's my card.

You should come see us.

And you go, did you immediately go home and call your parents?

I call my parents like, no, you can't do it.

You're not allowed to do that.

And I was like, let me just go talk to him.

They're like, no, you can't make money off of what you look like.

Your biopic's going to rule.

Your dad at home.

And your son of mine going to take his shirt off or nothing more.

Now, whether or not the agency was legitimate, which is really to be said he's in a he's in a fucking he's in a laboratory but it's it's overalls and he's he's shoeless he promised you a fan boat boy

you ain't never gonna unmodel unless you modeling it on a fan boat because that's something the whole family can use

so they said they shot it down there yeah they were like we're really against that and i don't know if it was a legit offer by the way it could have been someplace it was just trying to get my monies for the you might have you might have you might have avoided some

heavy trauma.

But the whole idea was like, you're absolutely, I don't care if it pays.

We don't care.

Work on your education.

Get a good job with the math skills you have because that's where you were going to make your money.

That is, but I think there is a part of you that, did you resent that at all?

I didn't mind the boundaries they gave me because I knew they were right.

Anything they told me, I knew they were correct.

And I'm like, they're probably right.

And then when I did my first open mic, it felt like I was like an Amish person experiencing

the real world.

Yeah.

Where I was just like, oh, everything they told me about myself was limited and based on probably their own insecurities and

insufficiencies.

And my first set went well enough that I'm like, maybe I have the.

This is very cheesy to say, but the first set felt like I got a letter from Hogwarts that I had been a wizard all these years and I didn't realize I had this power because I wasn't like a good actor.

I wasn't a funny guy.

I'm not the most charming guy.

I'm a weirdly stiff person.

Well, you're also, you are a handsome, you are objectively handsome.

Thank you.

And that is intimidating in itself.

Immediately, you want to write you off.

You want to go, what are you fucking, was this guy funny?

Fuck that.

Because

a lot of the times senses of humor are a self-defense mechanism.

And a lot of the times it's like people that develop it.

That's why reading about kids taking Ozempic, you go, well, then no one's going to be funny.

You need fat people.

Yeah.

You want good blowjobs?

You need fat girls.

I'm fat.

And then they get skinny in their 20s and you wonder why she just sucked your past through your P-hole.

And you're like, oh, you were a big girl.

All right.

I got you.

You like, dude, I'm telling you right now,

Katie, who my fiancé, the love of my life, a funny person.

A very funny person.

She had a very difficult middle school years.

She had very difficult.

So did I.

And that's why when you find that out about a person, you go like, and now you're hot.

You're like, fuck it.

This is great.

But you taking away that,

I think

stops people from growing into a personality and into having it.

So when an attractive person is funny, you immediately go like, no fair.

Like, no fair.

I'm with you on that.

Like, no, I hate those people when I see them online where they're just attractive people who are like model slash comedian.

Like, no.

Yeah.

No.

But it's about status.

But it doesn't mean.

You can't get there.

Comedy, I believe, the basis of comedy comedy is humility

it shows you that you ain't and that's why like comics the best advice has always been

just like when people say how do you get in shape diet and exercise how do you get good at stand-up right and get on stage yeah because you have to have bad sets and you have to get humbled and you have to go like i think this is so funny and you say it and they go that ain't even kind of funny or they go what or you have a joke work that works three times and then it fails 20 times and then you go like well i have to learn how to figure this out So there is like, so I think when like an attractive person is funny, immediately the response is like, fuck you, you are.

But it could happen.

And when you have that moment for you in your life where you do an open mic and people don't know that your parents are like, no modeling, none of this.

I ain't no boy, man.

Gonna be in an underwear and a mesh dick at a long.

And then, and then you do an open mic and you go like, I found it.

This feels good.

And I, I think I can get really good at it.

Yes.

I thought that was what I thought.

I saw, okay, I understand that it's very rare for someone to have a good set their first time.

This is one data point that points to me being an upper outlier.

And then I had another good set.

I was created immediately.

Another good set.

And then you grafted it.

And then I bombed for three months.

Yeah.

Two good sets.

And I bombed for three months.

And I was really about to give up hope.

Minus.

Chase DeRusso and a couple other comics who I started with there.

We're just like, hey, man, no, it's drop up there.

We like what you're doing.

Keep doing it.

We thought you were just some frat bro who's going to try it twice and we didn't want to give you the satisfaction.

Yeah.

So we waited until we saw you bomb a bunch of times to tell you you're doing a good job.

Keep that.

That's the best feeling.

It was one of my favorite moments of comedy.

I walked off stage after a bomb.

They go, you're funny.

And I was resentful.

I'm like, why are you telling me that now?

Yeah.

That's dude funny.

There was a moment where, you know, in Tucson, I had a ton of those moments, but when I moved here, specifically in New York, I was barking down in the West Village.

I wasn't getting real spots.

I was only doing open mics or check spots.

And I was on this like late, Joe List was one of my good buddies.

So he was one of those people that was like, no, you're funny.

Like keep going.

But I was doing it really in a really, really tough place.

And I had zero money.

And it was really hard.

And Neil Brennan,

who I'm a Chappelle fanatic.

I mean, literally, the reason I do stand-up comedy is because of Dave Chappelle.

I was like such a hipster with him that when Chappelle show came out, I resented his fame because I was like, he was mine.

I knew about him.

You guys didn't even fucking care about him.

You don't even know about his, the show he did with Jim Brewer called Buddies.

Like, I knew about stuff.

I was like into it.

And I knew, of course, I knew who Neil Brennan was.

They wrote Half-Baked together.

I was like, huge into Half-Baked.

And

I was at a real, real down part.

And Neil Brennan came into the old, it was the comedy village, but the old Boston.

And he watched my set.

And I got off stage.

And he's like, you're funny.

You're like really funny.

And I was like, oh,

and it was just that moment where you're like, this guy who has

Clayton Bigsby, you know, like all my the Rick James directed the Rick James sketch.

It's like all this stuff that I like love.

I was like, oh, all right.

That's like pretty big for me.

And then you just keep going.

Those are the best moments in comedy.

I think just getting when someone you idolize is like, hey, you were funny.

Yeah.

That's kind of, that's kind of the best moment.

And it's, it's, um, it's equally gratifying to watch, and I truly do mean this, uh, when you watch friends of yours that you know are hilarious get very famous because you go, Yeah, okay, that's this is like watching Nate and Shane blow up to me has been so fun because you go, like, right,

all right, so we were all right.

Everyone is this is this is one thing that we could all agree on: is that these motherfuckers are hilarious?

Because for so long, you're going, like, am I funny?

Yeah, is this shit funny?

But I was lucky that I had a supportive mom.

I had a different,

my mom

was more like draft day mom.

She was like, come on, baby.

Come on, baby.

You know, like, you're going to put us on.

Not in a, not in a golden ticket kind of way.

Not in a way where it felt forced like that, but in a way of like,

that was kind of my motivation.

Like, I could make our lives, I could help my family.

And it really was that kind of motivation of like, well, that's why I'm going to move to New York.

If I want to make this thing real, I want to fucking do this.

I loved comedy.

And so I was kind of motivated and also with something that I loved.

So it was like, well, yeah, I'll just go put in my time.

I've never been good at the marketing thing.

I've never been good at the self-congratulatory or like bragging kind of thing.

I just always loved being funny.

And I have a competitive nature.

So I was like, stand-up is a great place for me to be.

I'm also very competitive.

I think that's a long way.

I think a lot of comedians are.

And that's why I hate when they say they aren't.

Yeah.

Because it's like.

No, it's the hard working.

And literally, I'm a bum.

I'm like, no, you do something.

If you're here now,

you have some grit.

But that should be, I think, for anybody that, like, fuck it.

If they're a mathematician, if they're a writer, if they're like, like, you really,

I loved, I went, you know, when I was younger, I went through, and I still love him as a writer.

I went through a huge Hunter S.

Thompson phase.

Yes.

And then when you read about when he began writing, when he was a kid, he would type out chapters of Hemingway novels because he thought he could learn the melody of the word, like the keys, like how to write.

So he would like rewrite.

It's just large language modeling.

Exactly.

That's such a, yeah.

I like that you could immediately put it into a crazy smart term.

I go, yeah, my, I'm almost like the Creole guy now.

I go, well, that's just, you just touch the ground, and if it's warm, that means someone walked there.

And they go, well, that's actually an imprint from body heat.

You go, okay, mister.

Your dad goes,

this boy understands swap logic.

Are your uncles like that?

Are your uncles like?

No.

Do your family's not like Creole?

No, are my uncles Cajun?

Yes, very Cajun.

Yeah, if you hear them talk, you'll be like, Yeah, that's Cajun.

What?

It's creole.

My dad would mack you.

My dad's accent when he drank and talked to his brothers.

His accent would come back, and it was cool to see.

That's like Big J.

When you get him around Philly, he'll be like, up in New York, you don't hear an accent, and then he's back near Philly, and you're like, I'm a goagie to Hagie.

And you're like,

the fuck was that, dude?

Creole scooing at you.

Yeah, he's like, nah, I'm just going home.

And you're like, you're going home?

But I love that.

I always think it's fascinating because comics, you know,

I would like to interview anybody, but I always think you can like see where people come from by how their parents treated them because it's all about where your parents came from.

My mom was like, dude, if you want to do this.

God bless you.

I don't have any money, so I can't really fucking help you.

Yeah.

But like when I told her I wanted to be a comedian, she was almost like kind of what I told you about earlier.

She was like, if you're following something that you think you'll love doing, I'm not going to stand in your way.

And it was just nice.

So when I hear about your parents being like, no, did you have the moment with your parents where they were like, good job?

Yes.

With my dad, he passed away in 2016.

Sorry, the last two years were fading cognition due to Parkinson's.

Okay.

He never understood it.

It was just such a foreign thing to him that I would want any of that.

I think someone else has a good bit about it, but he was, when you grow up as poor as he did, having money is making it.

You don't need fame.

Yeah.

You don't need stardom or to be some kind of like

rock folk hero.

That fame and stardom are for people with full bellies.

Yes.

Yes.

It's not for people who can't fucking keep the lights on.

Yeah.

And he,

he, what he didn't understand was he gave me so much stability and that he works very hard and we had a good home and a good education.

And

I was never wanting.

And speedos for days.

Speedos.

He Yeah, fucking caps and nose plugs.

I had to pay for my own swim lessons.

You, dude, you came up hard.

Yeah.

In terms of practicality, they're like, if you want to swim, that's your money you have to pay.

Yeah, dude, that is poor parents.

That are poor parents that made money where they go, you pay for that.

Well, no, because they were like,

we want to reinforce you that academics is your job and anything else is a hobby.

My mom kind of did that, but it didn't stick because I was just a smart ass in school.

My mom was like, this isn't going to work.

I can't fucking ride him on this.

Yeah.

My dad, he saw me on i'd done comedy central and i tried to explain to him like on new faces he was like oh it sounds sounds good and then he saw me on uh carson daily i did carson daily which i had to explain this sounds like a bit i swear it's not i had to explain to him that it was neither the carson show nor the daily show that's really funny i know that's really

fucking thought about that or he goes you're gonna be johnny carson you're like no no no no carson daly the daily show

i think jon stewart's tremendous and you go well you'll get it dad are you familiar with in sync?

Are you familiar with the boy band push of the turn of the century?

That's, so when you did Carson Daly, he was coming.

I watched it and he was like, I watched it.

And I was like, wow, that's my son on television.

That's awesome.

And I kind of understand now why you do this and how far you've come.

That's awesome.

My mom has still never given me anything, but she did say to me one time, she's been like, happy.

I did a movie at Billy Crystal.

I was on Mazel.

I did tonight show.

She thought those are important.

She didn't, she was coming and was like, whatever.

People are going to see this.

Or at least, she literally, I think I did.

My mom's have a way of doing that.

I'm going to tell you right now, my mom mom is the most supportive.

Like, I couldn't ask for a more supportive mom.

And even her,

one time, the second time I did Conan,

which set was that?

The Nazi one?

Yeah.

I love that one.

Really?

Yeah.

I fucking thought I bombed that set.

No.

My first set was.

It's such an interesting, but it was such a paradigm shift of why are we picking on old people?

Let's defend them.

And it was, it was when I was still learning comedy.

I'm like, oh, that's such a better way to do that.

Yeah.

That's such a smart way to take that on.

Well, you know how if we're talking comedy theory for you nerds if you don't want comedy talk you can go you can leave i'll see you on the next episode but um

that comedy theories what theory wise was the louis internet joke on the plane wait for it that is that i probably wouldn't be a comedian if it wasn't for that yeah it's one of the most iconic and he did that on conan and i think that really blew it he did it as a he did it as a panel joke but it was one of his stand-up jokes yeah but the joke was if you don't know you should go watch it but uh he's on a plane and a guy is trying to get the internet on his his phone.

And he's like, what the fuck?

And he's like, give it a second.

It's going to space.

Yeah.

Love that.

Love that joke.

And then Louis revealed it was, dude, what are you doing?

Dog's just eating her ass.

She's just in her kennel eating her ass.

Hey.

But Louis, finally, I saw an interview where Louis revealed that that was him.

He was making fun of himself.

And I did that to my grandmother.

I was like trying to show her something on my phone and she was like, what?

What?

And I was like, oh, how do you not get it?

And then she was like told a story literally about her and my grandfather sitting on a hill.

We were driving across the Bay Bridge, which goes from San Francisco to Oakland.

And we were crossing over into Oakland.

And my grandmother went like, Your grandfather and I sat on that hill and watched them turn on the lights of the Golden Gate and Bay Bridge after the Japanese surrendered.

And I was like, oh, fuck.

And she was like, yeah, we had to turn off the lights of the bridge because because we were afraid of the Japanese bombing us during World War II.

And I was like, oh, that's crazy.

I didn't even fucking know that was a thing.

Whoa.

She might have been lying to me.

I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

But it was, it was one of those things where that's how that joke, where I was like, who am I to talk shit to this woman?

Cause she doesn't know how to work GPS.

Yeah.

You're like, so fucking what?

Still a fresh joke, huh?

Yeah.

But I did Conan and I called my mom and I was like,

I think Fallon just took over the tonight show.

And my mom, I go, yeah, I'm doing Conan again on like April 22nd.

My mom goes, when are you doing Fallon?

And you go, well, I don't fucking know.

You know, it was like immediately that kind of response where you go, how about we just celebrate this one?

Yeah.

How about I'm doing Conan again?

Yeah.

But parents, I guarantee she watches this podcast, so I know I'll get a call about this.

She's very supportive.

I know for a fact.

She didn't mean it like that.

Sure.

But it's just you're insecure.

Kids are sensitive.

My mom said to me one time, I was just kind of frustrated.

I'm like, why are you not like excited for me she thinks i'm funny by the way my mom does actually like respect my comedy that's what i said why aren't you excited for me that i've made a career out of this you said it was it was very unlikely you know the lottery ticket i've you know that i got out of all this and she goes listen i didn't have the life i wanted i didn't have the marriage i wanted i didn't have the career i wanted i don't consider myself a lucky person and you are my son so if you succeed it would mean i succeed and it's not that i don't believe in you it's i don't believe in me oh and that was that always gave me some perspective on it you You go, oh.

I go, oh, how do you not hug her right then?

Yeah, I know.

You go, come here.

And then I said that.

I told that.

I've told that, said that before on podcasts.

And she goes, when did I say that?

It's so funny.

They're defensive.

They get defensive quick.

I didn't say that.

I don't remember saying that.

Dude, one time I made a joke where I was like talking about a drinking problem.

My mom's like, I didn't drink that much.

And you're like, come on.

And then she's like, all right.

But it wasn't that bad.

You go, no, no, no.

You're like, you got to, because they're said there are people.

Everyone, that's the one thing that I think the internet's erasing that we need to hold on to is that fucking people are people.

Like you have feelings.

Like that's what sucks about AI.

That's what sucks about chat GBT and this

thing that I hope it's fake.

I don't know if it's true that meta is making AI profiles.

So it's going to be people you're interacting with on

Instagram aren't even real people.

They're all AI.

Dead internet.

Dead internet theory.

Yeah, yeah.

Dead internet theory.

And you're like, then why go on it?

Katie and I call everyone bots now.

yeah

someone does something in public we'll go he's a bot

that's a fucking bot that red dressing in the matrix they're all just there for you dude that's fucking that's a bot yeah but i think it's uh you know i think like um

I everything's so politicized now and everything is so tribal and like take this side.

And it's kind of like, guys, this is this is a tough go for everybody.

Yeah.

And you realize that when you talk to your parents or you talk to people that you maybe have

a tenuous emotional connection to or

a weird emotional connection to.

And you talk to them and you go like, oh, they got shit.

Like I won't talk to friends for like months and I'll be like, they're mad at me or whatever.

Then you talk to them and they're like, no, I was going through something.

And you go, oh, fuck.

Ah, fuck.

You know?

Do you have, do you make new friends anymore?

Rarely.

Yeah.

If it's not through comedy.

Right.

Not really.

You're not married.

No, I'm engaged.

Okay.

Oh, congratulations.

Thanks.

How many groomsmen do you see yourself having?

Or bachelor party?

How many guys are you inviting on your bachelor party?

I wouldn't even do a bachelor party.

I'm not that kind of guy.

No.

No, I would, if I went away

for like that kind of thing, I would, I don't know.

I would want it to be like

10 people, but then

I would be hurting people's feelings.

I'm still close with my six.

best friends from high school.

Okay.

I was gonna, I was curious, the competition.

I'm very close with,

you know, it's not as close as I want to be.

I don't see them nearly as much and I don't talk to them as much, but we all still are in contact and we're all still, we try to get together.

They all, everyone has families now, but

there's no like, I still love all my friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you have a good group?

I have no friends in high school.

Really?

I have no one.

No one from my high school is going to my wedding.

Really?

Yeah.

I made my friends in college, but I was

a loser.

And what they don't tell you about losers is they can also be mean.

You can be a loser and mean.

It wasn't.

Well, a lot of times you're mean because you're a loser.

Yes.

And I was, I was just

if you're smart, that means you can be precise with your.

I wasn't socially smart.

I did all the AP classes with a bunch of dorky kids who would have gladly had me as a friend, but I had my eyes on the cheerleaders and

football players.

Any reason why they, did you ever pinpoint a reason why they never fucked with you?

General unpleasantness.

I mean, they were just kind of like...

No, me being unpleasant.

they were just like matt's unpleasant yeah i think i was just socially remedial yeah i wasn't i didn't exactly get good social skills from my uh my father i mean yeah yeah the way you talk about it it's understandable do you ever think that they would see that and go like now that they're adults they go oh that makes sense like my my high school people yeah like people like people from high school go huh

Looks like we were wrong.

We were the monsters the whole time.

I don't think they would have really, I think about that a lot where I'm like, yes, they rejected me, but I didn't share a lot with them.

And I see them now and, you know, when you do comedy now, people are a lot nicer to you.

And like, we don't, this isn't like, this is a bit of a laborious conversation.

I think we can both feel that.

I completely, dude.

I did.

I never really wanted what you guys were after.

I would pretend, but I don't like watching SEC football on a Sunday afternoon.

I like swimming and math and puzzle nights.

And yeah.

I mean, damn, I would have traded in a second.

I would have loved to hook them horns or you were in.

Laura was a, Laura and my parents were longhorns.

I mean, dude, UT is, Austin would be a fun school to go to.

But I...

Yeah, because their NFL team and their MLB team and their NBA team are just a college football, football, a college football team.

Got close to the national championship this year.

Got real close.

Got real close.

There is...

I understand that feeling.

I went to.

I had friends, though.

I had friends.

But

I had friends in a way that I think I needed them.

Like more than I...

I really, they really helped me out.

Just because my dad died in high school, my sister died in high school.

I had a lot of just stuff where I liked doing substances.

So I needed kind of people around me.

Yeah.

And I had a really, really good group of friends and external friends.

You know, I had my six like really, really close friends, but then there was like that outer layer, which McDaniel was in and like that stuff where in high school, you know, middle school, he was, him and my buddy Byron were my best friends.

But

it's interesting because

I think,

Oh, no, the story I was going to tell was I did the Boulder Theater in Colorado last year.

It was like my first theater.

Congrats on doing theaters, man.

Well deserved.

Thanks.

It's still cool to see a good comic being

ramping up.

So I hope, you know, good tickets, danceoater.com.

But

I did the Boulder Theater, which is the biggest show I've ever done in Colorado.

Outside of opening for Burt at Red Rocks, which was phenomenal.

12?

It was the same week I did that show.

But,

you know, you're opening, you go very, some of my people I went to high school were there, which was awesome.

My friend Carrie was there.

She took a picture.

She's like, this is, I didn't even know you were going to be here.

But I did the Boulder Theater.

And then afterwards, everyone met up at a bar, my group of friends.

And then there were other people from high school that went to the show at the Boulder Theater that maybe were brought by a friend of a friend that I hadn't seen in fucking 20 years or whatever.

And this one girl, I won't give her name.

We weren't friends in high school.

We're not friends now.

She was just there with a friend of a friend.

And she just goes,

I didn't think you were that funny.

And I was, not tonight.

She goes, I didn't, growing up, I didn't think you were funny.

And I was like, okay.

And by the way, there's like people I want to see.

As I told you, I don't see my friends nearly enough.

And this girl's just, she's not trying to be mean.

I swear to God, she's not trying to mean me.

She's literally just trying to, this is what I mean by laborious.

You were right about laborious.

She's like, just trying to have a conversation.

And I'm like, talking to her about her.

I'm like, that's awesome.

You're doing that.

So that seems like a good job.

And she's like, so this is like, this is your job.

And I was like, she's like, that was fun she's like I used to in high school I didn't think you were funny and I was like you were though right yeah yeah I wasn't but but I was like I was pretty much trying to get

known for being funny oh really okay like I wasn't good at sports I was good at getting fucked up and being silly like that's what I'm still good at and I remember being like snapping in this moment and going like oh I have no reason to talk to this person So she just finished her sentence and I walked away.

And Katie was like, that looked like a weird exit because Katie was there.

And she was like, that looked like do you know that girl and i was like i went to high school with her but i realized in the middle of our conversation that there's no reason to have this conversation i'm not gonna

reach out to her ever i don't care and all she was saying was that was like kind of hurting my feelings yeah so i was just like yeah this i'm gone also you weren't even cool in high school it was like a thing where you know it's one of those things where a week later you're driving somewhere and you're like

fuck you i was high i was funny in high school like

pulling into a parking lot i'm like yeah who is this i'm like in providence pulling into a parking lot like this fucking bitch i was funny in high school yeah she said i had mr gomez's second period math class with me drinking them fader aids

yeah i think people when when you've had some kind of upward status shift in your life people think it's okay to shit on who you were and you're like i'm defensive of every version of myself hell yeah yeah i like every version of myself even if when i didn't even like when i was in that i still am like nah that guy was trying yeah except uh in the weeds waiter Dan.

That guy's a real prick.

That guy's a real.

In the weeds?

You'd never wait at tables.

When you wait tables and

hostesses know, with all respect, with all due respect, the bimbos of the restaurant world.

Yes.

They're the hotties that they put up front.

Yeah, and they walk to a table and they leave and then you're disappointed.

Well,

what they do is they will double seat a waiter.

They put it they seat a table.

So you start the table getting their drinks, their appetizer, and then they sit another table.

Well, you got to take care of the drinks and the appetizers for this.

It's too soon to sit this table.

So now you're rushed.

Now I got to get this table, but I also got to greet them.

Sometimes they'll triple sit you where it's like table, table, table.

Well, how am I going to greet three tables at once?

Now you're in the weeds.

Now you're fighting out of it.

How do I keep these table times?

You thought comedy talk was bad.

Just get me waiter talking.

And now you're in the weeds.

I would be a dick.

I'd be like, get the fuck out of my way.

Oh, to staff, other staff oh other waiters uh-huh fucking customers dude anyone can get it when i'm fucking in the weeds i will fucking go after i will i was a fucking prick when we were when i was in the weeds i'm like did you even fucking fill the ice ben you fucking cunt one time i was so mad i called a guy who left that didn't do his side work and i was like I i you when you're a closing server, you have to sign people out.

This guy got paid and left without getting signed out.

And I called him at home and I was like, come back in.

You didn't do your side work.

And I knew he lived in the neighborhood.

So he came back in and filled the ice buckets.

Cause take down those mochajetes, man.

You're fucking, you're on a team here.

Thanks for coming.

They made an emmy winning show out about this.

Yeah, The Bear.

I can't watch it.

It'll give me too much anxiety.

I haven't watched it.

Everyone's like, if you work in a restaurant, you'll get anxiety.

I was like, dude, I got to wait for that.

I got to sit somewhere in like a thunder vest and be like,

Andy Weir said that.

He's a great author.

Andy Weir said that

he used to work in tech and they could do watch Silicon Valley.

He goes, no, for the same reason that veterans can't watch Saving Private Ryan.

Yeah, I get it.

My uncle worked in politics for a long time and he said the closest thing that anyone has replicated with politics is Veep.

Yeah, I knew you were going to say it.

Similar to

Scrubs, apparently, is the most accurate medical show.

Really?

Comedy does a better job.

Yeah.

But he said, my uncle said that House of Cards doesn't even, he's like, that's not real.

He's like, that's not real at all.

He's like, it's way more Veep.

It's way more like people making mistakes and then being like, I didn't mean to make a mistake.

I fucking, I was on top of that.

Yeah.

It's great.

Watch everything Matt Brouchard does.

He's an incredible comic.

Special on YouTube.

Yes.

Go watch it.

Give it the views.

Appreciate that.

Do you and Laura have a podcast?

Yes, we do.

It's yes.

She does stand up too.

Yes.

You were on it.

Fantastic guests.

Great episode if you want to hear that one.

Yeah.

Listen to their podcast.

Support.

I love you.

Thank you for watching this.

If you're not into comedy talk, you know it happens once every couple episodes.

Guess what?

Next episode will be Pro Wrestling Talk.

Then you'll be begging for this episode.

Waiter Talk, baby.

Oh, dude, I could.

Oh, my eyes were glazing over during that.

I was like,

I'll go all in.

But there are people who are listening to this who are like, yes.

You mean him sign out?

Dude, that's gnarly, dude.

Dude, I would absolutely do.

Dude, I'll start a second podcast called In the Hutch with Dan Soder.

Just talking waiter shit.

comment below if you want me to do a fucking if every three episodes you want me to do an exclusive i'll bring in eli i'll bring in sarah some i'll bring in all my old friends i used to dos cominos with you want to get in this well get in this mattress matt brousard at matthew brousard at monday punday at monday at monday punday way off at monday punday go watch him he's hilarious i'm telling you right now his jokes it they are fantastic like you watch your jokes and you're like god damn it i remember when they were doing doing this week at the cellar, you would have jokes where I'm like, oh, that's fucking.

So, yeah, go check them out.

Boy.