TDS Time Machine | Third Party Politics

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You're listening to Comedy Central.

If you're one of the millions of Americans, American voters who thinks this presidential race is about two candidates, think again.

It's important to remember that our democracy consists of more than just Republicans and Democrats.

So let's take an open and honest look at America's other parties, the scary, freaky ones.

The most recognizable and significant third party is the Reform Party.

Their mission is reform.

They're hard-working Americans taking the process into their own hands.

That was the Reform Party.

And it's all downhill from there.

Then there's the Green Party, shaken by the departure of, okay, enjoy your college education,

shaken by the departure of spiritual leader Al Green.

The Green Party will be represented

in this coming election by Ralph Nader, who at this moment is still talking on the abandoned set of Donahue.

Is that

And if the Green Party is too socially conscious for you, try the Girl Party.

The Girl Party consists of girls between the ages of 17 and 20.

They're having a sleepover because one of them got her hands on a bottle of Kahlua.

Will they vote for me to come join them?

I sure hope so.

I've already made the dip.

Rounding out the major players is the Socialist Party with David McReynolds serving as its candidate this year.

You enjoy the benefits of socialism every time you go to a library or ride in a carpool.

So good luck with that, David.

So when making your decision on where to place your valuable vote, try to remember that that in the past, third parties have always played an important role in presidential elections.

That of loser.

We're going to have my guest tonight, the independent United States Senator from the great state of Vermont.

His new book is called The Speech, an historic filibuster on corporate greed and the decline of our middle class.

Please welcome to the program.

Senator Bernie Sanders, sir.

Thank you for joining us.

My pleasure.

The book is called the Speech.

It is actually just a relatively faithful transcription of the eight and a half hour,

what did you call it, a mini filibuster that you delivered?

It was a filibuster.

A full-fledged filibuster.

A full-fledged filibuster.

Eight and a half hours is real time, yeah?

That's real time.

And they don't do those anymore, really.

No.

They always say it.

They profess they will, but they don't.

Right.

And you were basically using it to protest the budget deal that Democrats and Republicans reached on the tax cut, or the not the tax cut, the budget cut.

Well, what that was about was the agreement between the president, the Democratic leadership, and the Republicans, which continued Bush's tax breaks for the very, very wealthy, which at a time of a huge deficit didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Bernie,

how can you

now?

Let's not encourage him.

how can you punish the most productive amongst us with

what I think we all know are job cutting and killing tax cuts?

They are job producers, sir.

I'm really quite shocked that you would go on record in this manner.

Well, sorry to shock you, John.

But the reality is...

that today we have a middle class which in many respects is collapsing.

Median family income is declining in the last 10 years.

We have lost 50,000 factories in this country, many of them shutting down, going to China, millions of good-paying manufacturing jobs.

And in the midst of all this, the wealthiest people on this country are doing phenomenally well.

We have the top 1%

earning more income than the bottom 50%.

The top 400 individuals in this country own more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

You're welcome.

How have we been convinced?

Because really the tax plate in this country is the lowest it's been since the 1950s.

The income disparity is larger than it's been since, what is it, the 1920s, I guess they would say.

So why have we been convinced and why is the argument taking place on those terms?

It is now seen as a fait accompli that to tax

the high tax brackets, even back to Clinton rates of the 90s, which was very successful economically, that that is unacceptable.

How How has the debate been?

Honestly, John, I think our right-wing friends and all of their moneyed interests have a lot of power in the media.

They have their own television network.

They control 90% of talk radio.

And what they have done is done an excellent job in diverting attention away from the real issues facing the American people.

But this is not the

our left-wing friends or the Democrats are not fighting back with that either.

The argument hasn't been that.

The argument's been the Republicans think government's too big, they want to cut $60 billion, and the Democrats say, Habat 30.

You're right.

They have not in any way made an argument for efficiency, accountability,

where the money would go, addressing problems.

Well, I think that's some of what I dealt with in the speech.

But the issue, it seems to me, is

with a $1.6 trillion deficit, it is insane to think that the only way you're going to move toward a balanced budget is by slashing college Pell Grants, by cutting Medicaid, by converting Medicare into a voucher program, by cutting programs that working-class people and middle-class people desperately need.

And at the same time, our Republican friends say, Well, we're going to do all of these terrible things to the most vulnerable people in America, but you know what?

We're not going to ask billionaires to pay a nickel more in taxes.

I think that that is insane.

It seems insane.

Have the Democrats made the case?

Here's what I fear now, is that the public has lost confidence in the government's ability to solve even the most basic common sense problems.

And I point to this, even the Zadroga bill, that we just found out yesterday that just as this thing was passing, a congressman snuck in an amendment that makes any first responder have to prove they're not a terrorist.

to get their money.

Now,

in that atmosphere, how can we make the case to people that this government or our government is competent enough to even make common sense changes to tax codes, to regulation?

Or is that, or am I?

I would look at it in a different way.

I'm not here to defend all aspects of government.

God only knows there's an enormous amount of incompetence and waste.

But on the other hand, but But on the other hand, what we do take for granted is you have a social security system today which for 75 years has paid out every nickel owed to every eligible American, has reduced poverty among senior citizens from 50% to 10%.

You've got a Medicare system.

It has its problems.

But there are millions and millions of seniors today who are alive and healthy because of Medicare.

You have Pell Grants which are enabling young people to get a college education who otherwise would not have.

So while we want to make sure the government is run efficiently and honestly, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And let's not accept that Republican line that we want to go back to the 1920s when a handful of very wealthy people controlled it all.

We have fought for 70 years for rights of working people.

You're seeing what's going on in Wisconsin.

Even the right to collectively bargain for public employees is now being taken away.

They want to do what some of them want to do away with the concept of the minimum wage.

concept of the minimum wage.

So I think what we have to do as a people is say, sorry, yeah, we've got to make government more efficient.

But working people have rights.

Health care should be a right of all people, not just the privilege of the wealthy.

We were just discussing Bobby Jindal's speech with more on the Republican response to Barack Obama's sort of State of the Union address.

We turned to senior political correspondent Wyatt Sinek.

Wyatt, thank you very much for joining us.

Wyatt, Governor Jindal's speech has been drawing a lot of criticism.

John, for you to suggest that's because of Jindal's race is just inappropriate.

I'm not,

I was not suggesting that was

where old people can only see skin color, I saw a new political dawn.

John, for the first time in years, I'm excited about politics.

For too long, this country's been in the iron grip of a deeply corrupted two-party system.

But last night, we saw the emergence of a vibrant third party, the

Republican Party.

Republican Party has been around, they controlled the White House and Congress for most of the last eight years.

And I think they've been around for

more than a century, some of them even individually, I believe.

No, I see.

You're thinking of the Republican Party, the guys who ran up the deficit with massive spending and multiple wars.

Bobby Jindal hates those guys.

Check it out.

Republicans lost your trust, and rightly so.

Look at that.

He nailed them.

Why?

He said Republicans lost your trust and rightly so, but Jindal is in the Republican Party.

No, he's in the Republican Party.

There's a difference.

The Republicans are all about fiscal discipline, not like those big spending fat cats across the aisle.

Man, did Jindal tear them a new one.

You elected Republicans to champion limited government, fiscal discipline, and personal responsibility.

Instead, Republicans went along with earmarks and big government spending in Washington.

Ouch!

Those Republicans have got a lot of work to do, but this is a big opportunity for Republicans.

Quiet.

Look.

Republican, Repub, licking, Repub, licking.

It's all the same party.

Do you even watch the news, John?

The Republican Party has a black guy, an Indian guy, and a MILFI wolf huntress.

All right?

They're like the mod squad, except their enemies are taxes and gays.

Wyatt, again, taxes and gays, those are the traditional enemies.

Right.

I know.

It's so cool.

Two parties who clearly can't stand one another can still come together when it comes to national security.

All right.

Thank you, Wyatt.

Wyatt, Sanak, everybody.

We'll be right back.

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My guest tonight is with the Illinois Policy Institute.

His new book is called A New American Tea Party: The Counter Revolution Against Bailouts, Handouts, Reckless Spending, and More Taxes.

Please welcome to the program John O'Hara.

Sir!

Thank you for joining us.

A new American Tea Party.

I'm going to ask you a question.

I want an honest answer off the bat, sir.

And I expect an honest answer.

Are you, sir, an elderly racist?

Are you going to overthrow this very government?

No, John.

And

folks laugh, and

it's a good question because, as you very well know, the media has a way of creating some interesting narratives.

They enjoy conflict.

I think they enjoy the sensationalized aspects of things, so they'll seize on it.

But when I may always think, how old are you?

I'm 25.

You know, kids today, you should be out

smoking pot

in a foreigner t-shirt, quite frankly.

How did this come to pass that you wrote this book?

Well, I got involved back last year, February of last year,

after that famous Santelli on-air rant about, you know, he got up on the Chicago Board of Trade and started talking about the moral hazard of

bailing out irresponsible corporations.

And a lot of folks, and he called for a tea party, and a lot of folks said, hey, you know, what if we really got one of these together?

And a couple friends and I got on the phone and said we were going to be in D.C.

in a about a week later.

Now,

have you found that it has been infiltrated?

Do you set this up, you start working with your your friends, and now do you find when you go to a meeting, there's maybe a heavyset guy, older gentleman in the back who's like, I'm with the GOP.

Come and talk to me.

Because it feels like either they're trying to co-opt it or it's natural brethren.

I think that in many ways, you know, the GOP might be nine times out of 10 the natural vehicle for some of these ideas.

But the neat thing is, and we have this empirical evidence from a handful of polls in the last month, this movement is made up of Republicans, Democrats, and independents.

They're very all independently minded.

There's a lot of anger towards Republicans and Democrats.

It's really an incumbent.

See, I probably read the data a little bit.

It feels like when they talk about it, it's mostly very conservative-leaning people.

Depending on which poll, about 58% or so are Republican, the rest independent and Democrats,

which is a far cry from the media narrative that it's 99% Democrats or somehow, 99% Republicans or somehow GOP-run.

And when you say conservative, conservative economically, I mean,

the concerns, we found the social views to be

conservative.

It's very, I think it's, no, in terms of what really drives it.

Did you get into this to get laid?

Is that it, my brother?

Here's where I believe there may be some confluence.

I've read the book, Progressives and the Left generally do not come off favorably in it.

What if we looked at it?

It seems like the big concern for the Tea Parties is the protection of liberty.

Would that be accurate?

I think that's a big part of it

is liberty, but another big part of it is really the role of government.

And I think a lot of people feel in the Tea Party movement, and this is actually reflected in the broader public, that the government is taking on too much and doing too much.

Right.

Here's my point.

I believe in the government.

Do you believe the government is the sole enemy of liberty, I guess I would say?

No, in many ways the government can be the protector of liberty, but there's a role for it.

Look, this is another big misconception about the Tea Party.

It's somehow anti-government.

People believe that there's a role for government.

It's just what that role should be.

And I think it's a very healthy debate that we're having.

This is, I think, my point.

I believe the government can play

a role.

I think we've been given a false choice between tyranny and

anarchy.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Why not try competent government intervention

as as a as a

just to throw it out there

to see because everybody's comfortable with them running the military right

let's bring the same urgency to them running other things people have been very satisfied with Medicare over you know 60 years is a long time to last for a program well and so well Social Security is bankrupt.

It's essentially a Ponzi scheme.

But it's been, I mean, for a program to last 70, 80 years to the great satisfaction of its citizens, there's no question it needs reform.

But why throw out the baby.

What would you have government do?

Oh, I would have government do a lot of things it does.

And in fact,

it's not about, it's not anti-government.

It's that there's a core role for government.

For example, let's take the Obamacare debate.

Okay.

No question our health care system needs reform.

The question is, is, isn't Obamacare, by the very nature of you using the phrase, derogatory rather than saying, let's talk about this new health care reform.

Sure, well, well that's how it's popularly discussed though.

Well let's talk about it's a new one.

I expect the way they popularly discuss the Tea Party movement.

Why don't we use the same rules?

Well it's that it's not I don't think that's a slam.

It's a moniker that it's been given beat because it was his John, John,

John.

Let's call it health.

Let's call it the health.

Why don't I call it the tea bagger book?

I don't think it's a slam.

It's not a slam.

It's just something I say.

John?

One is an obscure sexual fetish, the other one is a guy's name.

Okay, don't say obscure.

But look,

there's no question there's a role of government.

It's what that role should be.

And go into the healthcare debate.

A lot of people feel that, most people feel that there's a role for government to help the poor and disadvantaged among us get quality access to healthcare.

The question is, is this bill the way to do it?

And a lot of people feel that it wasn't.

And listen, that sounds perfectly reasonable.

I think part of the problem is the language of the discussion is that it's tyranny.

What I hear a lot is it's government tyranny, and I think it's confusing tyranny with losing an election.

My point of view was not, but I don't mean that disrespectfully.

My point of view was not represented over the last eight years.

Bush went to war in Iraq.

I didn't want that.

I didn't think it was tyranny.

I just thought it was a mistake, and I was hoping that in the next election we could change it.

Well,

and of course you had that fringe element at anti-Bush

rallies.

Absolutely.

Calling him.

Would you say, though, that the tyranny thing, the undemocratic nature, I mean it's sprinkled throughout your book as well.

The idea, in what particular sense?

That his policies are undemocratic.

That they go against the will of the people.

Take the health care bill.

The majority of Americans were opposed to that.

And I think they had a...

Most polls were opposed to this particular bill.

The majority of Americans were opposed to us staying in Iraq.

Him leaving us there wasn't undemocratic.

You elect a commander-in-chief for four years.

Sure, of course.

You elect public officials and you give them the responsibility of these things.

But I think in many ways,

many incumbents have stepped over back.

And look, Republicans and Democrats do it alike.

I think people felt, particularly with this bill, that it was done in a way.

It was very quick.

It was, you know, we're not, we'll find out, Nancy Pelosi, well, it took 14 months?

Well,

the final version.

Nancy Pelosi said,

we'll find out what's in it after it's passed.

It was the longest throat shove in the history of throat shoves.

Well, listen, but

here's the thing.

It's a dialogue that needs to happen without all those pejoratives, with all those things.

And I really do appreciate you doing it.

And you seem like a very genuine cat, a very nice guy, and I appreciate you coming out to do it.

And it is, listen, I think it's an interesting read.

And read it, learn about it for yourselves, and separate it.

But I really appreciate you coming by.

And I'm sorry we ran out of time and that I've been sweating the entire time.

I've been talking about it.

Not a problem.

It was a great dance.

All right.

Well, thank you very much.

It's great to see you, John.

A new American Tea Party.

It's on the bookshelves now.

John O'Hara.

As much as voters complain about neither of these choices being appealing, come November 8th, a decision has to be made.

So for

more insight on America's difficult choice, we turn to our election analysts, Hassan Minaj, Desi Leidik, and Adam Lowitz, everybody.

Thank you so much for joining, guys.

Hassan,

let's start with you.

How does a dissatisfied voter decide between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump?

Well, it's easy, Trevor.

You don't.

Why choose between Coke and Pepsi when you can have diet shasta?

I'm talking about Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson.

I'm sorry, Hassan, who?

Trevor Johnson is an experienced entrepreneur.

He's former governor of New Mexico, and he's so legit that he calls himself Honest Johnson.

Honest Johnson sounds like the worst porn name ever.

Okay, well, I think we need some more honesty in the bedroom.

Oh, you know what, Hassan?

I have heard about this candidate.

I mean, this is the same guy who's really open about smoking weed all the time, right?

I don't know if Americans want their president to be high in the situation room.

Hey look, if America had a president who smoked weed, maybe we wouldn't be so quick to go into war all the time.

Like imagine if George Bush would have been high.

Would we have gone into Iraq?

I think you still would have gone in just a lot slower.

But Gary Johnson is against gun control.

Yeah, that's what being a libertarian means.

No government anywhere.

They won't raise my taxes, regulate my businesses, or tell me I can't marry a Sasquatch.

Okay, you know, that allows...

Did you say Sasquatch?

This is ridiculous.

Desi, surely you don't agree with this madness.

No.

First of all, good luck finding a Sasquatch that's single, okay?

And secondly, I don't want a president who I share a weed dealer with.

There's a perfectly good candidate out there who happens to be a woman, and I am with her.

Of course, Hillary Clinton.

No, Dr.

Jill Stein.

Hillary doesn't own her.

You see, Trevor, the Green Party nominee is pledging to move America to 100% renewable energy and cancel all student debt.

She's the perfect progressive candidate.

If Hillary and Bernie had sex and someone watched it, that person would be Dr.

Jill Stein.

Are you kidding me?

A candidate who's skeptical about vaccines?

Oh, is someone afraid of polio?

I am.

Okay, look,

maybe Hassan is right about the vaccines and Desi is right that Hassan's being a little bitch about it.

But that's not the only thing, Desi.

Dr.

Stein is also very suspicious of Wi-Fi.

There's a video making the rounds now, it's being reported out, in which you appear to say that broadband internet access in schools, Wi-Fi, is somehow having an adverse health effect on children's brains.

Many countries, and including the European Regulatory Agency, have seen fit to protect vulnerable people from

that sort of

radiation.

I am not saying that the science is done on this, rather, that the science has just begun.

So, Desi, your reply to that?

Well,

I don't know what's so strange about that, Trevor.

Dr.

Jill Stein is just saying she wants to do more research on Wi-Fi.

And how am I supposed to research Wi-Fi without Wi-Fi?

Oh,

someone doesn't have an unlimited data plan.

I don't actually.

Kick, hello.

Can I please say something?

Please, Adam, go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah, are we really having this conversation?

Honest Johnson or Dr.

Dial-Up, you know, like everyone knows who America needs.

Evan McMullen.

Sorry, who?

Who?

Just roll the clip.

Former CIA operative Evan McMullen launching an independent bid for the White House.

McMullen is being funded and helped by GOP members unhappy with Trump.

That's a real choice there, Trevor.

Evan McMullen.

Adam, are you supporting McMullen because you guys look exactly the same?

Wow.

Wow.

So all bald people look alike to you, huh?

Yeah, actually, to be honest, they do.

I think so too.

It's crazy, right?

I once got mistaken for Ving Rains.

What?

I know.

Well, thank you so much to our panel.

We came into this discussion talking about two candidates.

We came out realizing that there were actually five people who could become president of the United States.

Whoa.

Hold on.

Hold on, Trevor.

I said you can vote for Gary Johnson, but there is no way he can win this election.

Voting Gary Johnson is as useless as me getting TSA precheck.

I'm still getting that random search.

Yeah, yeah, I think Jill Stein is great, but the truth is America is a two-party system.

So voting for Jill Stein is like throwing pennies in a wishing well.

It's fun to say what you wish for, but that doesn't mean it's gonna come true.

Yeah, I don't even remember my guy's name.

Evan McMullen.

Who?

The guy you were talking about earlier.

You mean Ving Reims?

All right, you know what?

We're gonna have to cut it there.

Thank you so much for wasting everyone's time.

Give it up for the Cars Wanderers one more time, everybody.

We'll be right back.

My guest tonight.

He is the former governor of New Mexico.

He is now the libertarian candidate for President of the United States.

Please welcome the program.

Governor Gary Johnson.

Nice to see you.

Good to be here.

Now, so you are now the Libertarian nominee.

I'm the Libertarian nominee.

I'm going to be one of three candidates on the ballot in all 50 states, Obama, Romney being the other two.

So

this is big dog stuff.

How did they approach you?

You were running in the Republican primary or trying to get on the

kind of a mutual thing.

I mean, they asked me if I would consider running.

And for the most part, I think I'm delivering a message of liberty and freedom very much along the same lines as Ron Paul.

I don't think Ron Paul is going to be successful getting the nomination.

I wish him luck.

The Republican nomination.

Republican nomination.

So that message goes away

when his candidacy comes to an end.

And who's to say it comes to an end?

I mean, I suppose there are a lot of people who are.

Was there any thought that he would then go to the...

Did they ever talk to him, or is there a talk of the two of you?

Is there any of that kind of...

No, none of that going on.

Ron Paul asked for my endorsement in 2008.

I readily gave that endorsement when I dropped out of the Republican Party.

I asked everyone that was going to vote for me to vote for Ron Paul.

But like I say, I think that's going to come to an end.

Libertarian, very interesting because

Democrats and Republicans both seem to agree with half of it.

Yeah.

But the opposite halves.

No, I guess.

It's like one of those friendship necklaces that has like the half.

And each one has a half.

And if they put it together, oh my god, a libertarian.

Well, I think so.

The notion that most people in this country are fiscally responsible, socially tolerant, I'm in that group.

I think most Americans are in that group.

Libertarian candidates going to come at Obama from the left and going to come at Romney from the right.

Kind of that.

So nobody sees this coming.

That's what I'm saying.

Why is it that the libertarian candidates have trouble then gaining traction?

Because even you were saying in presidential politics, no one's gotten more than 1%.

But there is very popular

policy within those party platforms.

No, I totally agree.

I totally agree that there are more libertarians, people that declare themselves libertarians, than vote libertarian.

Right now, though, you have an unprecedented amount of people in this country saying they would consider voting for a third-party candidate.

We'll see if that takes place.

But more important than anything is the message.

I mean, the notion that let's end the war, let's end the war on Afghanistan, let's bring the troops home, let's not bomb Iran, let's end the drug wars, let's balance the federal budget.

These are important issues that

you know,

half are embraced by the Democrats, half seem to be embraced by the Republicans.

What holds it back?

Here's what I think holds it back.

People say, like, everybody is for, I'm for making my own choices.

And then people screw up.

And because you are, let's face it, you're a marathoner, you've climbed mountains, you're a governor.

Not all of us can do that.

Some of us like Doritos.

I do too, by the way.

But what I'm suggesting is,

is that a good party for people that are perhaps not as able?

You know, one of the things that always struck me is,

do libertarians put too much trust in us?

Are we impressive?

Have the two parties gotten so out of touch?

Have they gotten so out of touch?

And paper, rock, scissors.

I mean, if we elect a Republican or a Democrat, is there really going to be a difference four years from now?

I don't know if there's really going to be a difference.

Well, I would say

there was in the, you know, the difference between, let's say, George Bush and whoever the Democrat was, or the difference between Obama and who the Republican is, I think is the same.

There's a good distance there.

Is that distance, though, along the lines of what people might want?

But I don't necessarily believe that both parties are identical.

Each has their own perhaps strength and weakness.

Well, absolutely.

And like I say, historically, I think people have embraced the Democrat Party because they're good on civil liberties.

I'm going to make the case that I'm better on civil liberties than Obama.

Historically, I think Republicans are about dollars and cents, the checkbook.

Historically, Republicans are good in that category, but I'm going to make the case that I'm better than Romney when it comes to dollars and cents.

Now, that's the case that I'm going to try and make.

How do you make that case?

Can you get on, how do you get onto the debate?

How can you become like Ross Perot did and get included in the national debate stage?

Well, so the notion here is to actually win the race.

I mean, that's the pie-in-the-sky notion.

To do that, I've got to poll at 15%

to get on the national debate stage with Obama and Romney.

Right now, I'm polling at about 8% against the two of them.

I think more important than the.

I'm just working this out.

Well,

the biggest ingredient in my being at 8% is the fact that I'm the third name being listed, not so much me, but the opportunity exists that people recognize there are going to only be three candidates on the ballot in all 15%.

You've got to get to 15%.

Whose rule is that?

That's the Presidential Debate Commission that established that as a result of Ross Perot.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah.

Because they went like, we don't want another crack pot in there.

The guy's coming in here.

Here's what you got to do.

So

let's set a 15% threshold.

And anyway, lots of opportunity to change the world a little bit.

Have you found

when you're talking to people, they're more open to it where you go out and you go, you know, there's also R C cola, also very tasty.

Like

when you talk to people,

do they say like, oh my god, I I never tasted libertarianism.

Let me, oh, oh.

That's the opportunity, the notion that perhaps libertarians embrace what most people actually philosophically.

You know, it's one thing to philosophically be in tune with the Libertarian Party.

It's another thing to actually point out the problems that face the country.

I think a homeless person could do those two.

those same things, but I think you have to have a resume to actually do this.

And I'm posing myself as having that resume also, having served two terms as governor of New Mexico in a state that's two to one Democrat and taken on issues that I think were really important and

politics be damned.

I'm glad that you gave those impressive credentials because at first I thought what you were saying was, hey man, I'm better than a homeless guy.

I wasn't sure at first where you were going with this.

It sounded like you were saying like, look, a homeless guy could do what I'm doing right now, but I'm just saying.

A homeless guy could point out the problems.

A homeless guy could maybe even point out the solutions.

I've got a guy on my corner who's doing it all day and all night.

Turns out it's Eleanor Roosevelt's fault.

Well, Governor, I wish you well.

Have you had good success meeting with the people and starting to generate some enthusiasm?

Well, yes.

I mean, that's what it's all about.

I have seen nothing but increased crowds, increased appetite for what it is that I have to say.

I wouldn't be doing this if that weren't the case.

This show.

A couple people watching.

Yes, I was going to say, this show's not going to help that much, but it's a start, is what I'm saying.

What the heck?

Call Brian Lamb.

Governor Gary Johnson, ladies and gentlemen, Libertarian candidate for president.

My first guest is a former CIA operative, the former House Republican Chief Policy Director, and 2016 Independent Presidential Candidate.

Please welcome Evan McMullen.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Be Be there.

Let's jump straight into it.

Real quick, for those who don't know you, I mean, you were a name and a face that I wasn't familiar with during this race.

And then when it got really deep into the election, all of a sudden, you came out of nowhere and you said, I'm running, I'm a conservative, and I'm running to oppose Donald Trump.

That's right.

Why did that happen?

Well, it happened because somebody from the conservative side needed to stand up and oppose Donald Trump's bigotry and his threat to our system, his threat to our democracy.

It couldn't only be Hillary Clinton standing up for the most fundamental ideals upon which this nation was founded.

Number one, that all men and women are created equal.

And number two, that we have liberty, we have rights that come from the fact that we're humans, not from the government and not from any leader.

Donald Trump does not dictate what our rights are.

Our rights come with us when we arrive on Earth here, and the government's role is to protect them.

Now,

it's interesting that

you use the word dictate because

we, no, we made a joke on the show about Trump as an African dictator, but you worked as a CIA operative, which I'm assuming means spy.

Which makes it you look like Jason Bourne kicked you out of a window somewhere.

Like you have, no, you've got that look, like the guy's there, though.

You look like you blend into a crowd and you fight with Jason Bourne.

But you've worked all over the world for the CIA.

And what really interested me is I read your op-ed in the New York Times where you wrote about the fact that you've seen leaders like Trump all over the world.

What does that mean?

Well, yes.

I mean, I served all over the world, especially in South Asia and the Middle East and Africa.

And there I saw authoritarians and I saw how they operate, what they do.

The most important thing to understand about an authoritarian is that an authoritarian is uncomfortable with any threat to his or her power.

And that could be the law,

for example the Constitution in our case.

That could be other leaders, it could be other branches of government, it could be cultural norms, democratic norms, it could even be the expectation of consistency or common decency.

All of those things threaten in the mind of an authoritarian their power.

What they want is for everything they say right now, their latest whim, to be supremely important.

And so, if they undermine or destroy all of those restraints or other sources of power,

that inflates their power or grows their power at our expense.

And so I see that in Donald Trump.

I saw that during the campaign.

I certainly see that now post-election.

So who knows what will come next.

This is where I'm confused.

So I go, Evan, you are a conservative.

You were running for president.

I go, help me and my viewers understand the difference between a principled conservative and Donald Trump.

So I go, so with regards to, let's say, a ban on Muslims, what is your view on that?

Well, it's absolutely counterproductive and runs counter to everything we should believe in in this country,

our foundational principles.

I've opposed that publicly over and over again.

So with regards to, let's say, climate change, because I mean, the official stance now of

Donald Trump and his administration is that this is, they said, a load of bunk, I believe, and it does not exist.

Is that a conservative standpoint?

Is that a Donald Trump thing?

Well,

a lot of Republicans hold that view.

I don't.

I think the climate is changing.

I think we are contributing to that, and I think we need to take action in response to it.

Now, we can debate how to do that.

But yes, but you know what?

I think there's something, I mean, that's an important issue, don't get me wrong.

But we've got to fight for liberty and equality in this country.

We can debate these kinds of things, which are important, don't get me wrong.

We have so many important challenges in this country.

But there's a real opportunity for those of us on the right and the the left who are still standing for the truth that all men and women are created equal regardless of the color of their skin or their faith or their gender.

Those of us who are still standing for that and standing for liberty, for our basic freedoms, we need to stand together right now because we have a president coming into the White House who may be an authoritarian.

Now let's see what happens when he actually gets there.

But every data point we've seen so far essentially suggests that he will be an authoritarian.

Let's unite.

We will have these political debates on these other issues.

They're important, don't get me wrong.

But

this is a different kind of moment here, I fear.

You know what it sounds like you're saying?

Like when you watch Independence Day and those movies, and the people are like, I know we have our differences, but the aliens are coming.

And right now we can all agree that the aliens are going to kill us all.

I hope it's not that.

That's pretty much what it sounds like.

But you know what?

I would love to have you back on the show.

I'm sure we won't agree on everything,

but I'm glad you came on and I appreciate your voice.

Thank you very much.

Likewise.

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