Shutdown Sparks Cringey Meme War & Trump Punishes Blue Cities | Kevin Nguyen

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Speaker 10 I'm Ryan Chag. We got so much to talk about tonight.
Republicans are making everyone Mexican, Democrats are losing the content wars, and we find out if layoffs can make you horny.

Speaker 10 So let's get into all of it with our ongoing coverage of Shutdown Showdown 2025.

Speaker 13 Locked up, locked down, and closed for business.

Speaker 16 It's day two of the shutdown and only the most essential services are still operating.

Speaker 19 Social Security, Medicare, and that department that makes up causes for autism.

Speaker 11 Today it's minestrone.

Speaker 13 You hear that?

Speaker 14 Don't give pregnant women minestrone.

Speaker 21 It's got too many different things in it that the body can't handle.

Speaker 23 Now, for the Republicans and Democrats, the most important part of the shutdown is coming together and blaming the other side for it.

Speaker 19 President Trump has been posting AI videos of Hakeem Jeffries in a sombrero and

Speaker 10 now unfortunately Democrats are hitting back with their own videos.

Speaker 4 It's midnight. The Republican shutdown has just begun.

Speaker 25 Can you see me?

Speaker 25 Well, of course you can because the Republicans turned the lights off.

Speaker 26 Open the door, Mr. Speaker.
Open the doors of Congress, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker 27 Republicans.

Speaker 27 It's Mike Johnson in here.

Speaker 9 Hello,

Speaker 27 Republicans. No Republicans on the train.

Speaker 5 Hello, Republicans.

Speaker 27 Have you seen any Republicans? No Republicans here.

Speaker 3 No Republicans here because they all died from secondhand embarrassment.

Speaker 19 Look, Democrats aren't as good as at video content as they are at sending emails, asking for money.

Speaker 14 So,

Speaker 11 I don't know, let's try something else.

Speaker 28 Yesterday, Democrats posted a Kitty Explains meme blaming the GOP for the shutdown.

Speaker 4 Democrat kiddies want you to have health care. Republican kiddies do not.

Speaker 3 My guess is the penguin.

Speaker 29 But you know what?

Speaker 16 They made a substantive point in there. I like to see Republicans counter-argument.

Speaker 30 Republicans, of course, responded with this, a kitten wearing a sombrero.

Speaker 21 God damn, the sombrero meme is undefeated.

Speaker 5 It's like an unblockable combo.

Speaker 21 With this meme, Republicans will never have to make a coherent point again.

Speaker 10 It's unstoppable.

Speaker 19 Republican Senator Ted Cruz added his own version of Hey Marquarino, superimposing the image on 44 Democratic senators.

Speaker 10 And it's over.

Speaker 16 Once Ted Cruz joins in on something, it's dead.

Speaker 29 Actually, you know what?

Speaker 32 Can we also get him a laboo boo?

Speaker 23 Because I'm kind of sick of those things.

Speaker 33 Now, you might be wondering why Republicans keep putting sombreros on Democrats.

Speaker 23 Apparently, it's part of their talking point that Democrats shut down the government to help illegal immigrants.

Speaker 36 What they have done instead is to shut down the government because we won't give billions of dollars to health care funding for illegal aliens.

Speaker 28 They prioritize taxpayer-funded benefits for illegal aliens over keeping the government open for American citizens.

Speaker 39 Democrats, the party of open borders, transgender for everybody, lawlessness in our streets are shutting down the government in an effort to appease the radical left.

Speaker 39 These Democrats are demanding nearly $1.5 trillion in spending for an agenda that includes health care for illegal aliens and much, much more.

Speaker 21 Holy shit.

Speaker 21 When you wake up from surgery, you will be a transgender illegal immigrant.

Speaker 12 I mean, that ad was so scary, I was expecting the girl from the ring to crawl out of it and then become the boy from the ring.

Speaker 13 But this is a pretty big accusation, okay?

Speaker 11 Democrats say they're shutting down the government because they want to preserve health care for tens of millions of Americans, but Republicans say Democrats just want to give health care to illegal immigrants.

Speaker 34 So can someone just clear this up for me?

Speaker 40 Republicans pressuring moderate Democrats by claiming they are pushing for health care for undocumented immigrants.

Speaker 40 But their accusation is dubious and refers to a small group of benefit recipients whose status is considered lawfully present. Federal law explicitly prohibits undocumented people from receiving aid.

Speaker 33 So in other words, some of the health care that Democrats are trying to get for Americans might also trickle down to some people who are not Americans.

Speaker 33 You know, when you're showering and you aren't trying to wash your feet, but it just kind of sort of

Speaker 3 happens by accident along the way, which I actually just learned is how white people wash their feet.

Speaker 21 They don't, they don't make a point, they don't lift up their feet and wash it, they just

Speaker 13 if if it happens it happens anyway, that's what this shutdown is about now

Speaker 5 Now look

Speaker 42 This isn't the first time the party shut down the government and blamed each other Okay, but this time Republicans aren't just trying to blame Democrats They're trying to punish the states they come from the White House has already started targeting projects important to Democrats blocking $8 billion for energy projects in 16 states that voted Democrat in the last presidential election.

Speaker 15 The Trump administration announced Wednesday it would withhold $18 billion in funding for transportation projects in New York City, home to Democratic leaders Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.

Speaker 21 Wait a minute, right there, right?

Speaker 11 You're telling me every New Yorker is gonna suffer because of your beef with Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries?

Speaker 21 Hey, President Trump, don't forget there are things in New York you care about too, all right?

Speaker 12 Like Wall Street, Fox News hosts,

Speaker 11 your current wife and the home she lives in by herself for some reason, right?

Speaker 29 But you know what, Trump? New York doesn't want your money anyway, okay?

Speaker 12 Our transportation is just fine.

Speaker 11 Our rats are getting so big, you can ride them to work now.

Speaker 11 And by the way, it's not just Democratic states.

Speaker 34 This dude is going scorched earth on his own government.

Speaker 15 White House Budget Director Russ Vogt warned mass layoffs could come within the next two days.

Speaker 37 President Trump is teasing that that I have a meeting with Russ Vogt.

Speaker 37 He of Project 2025 fame to determine which of the many Democrat agencies, most of which are a political scam, he recommends to be cut.

Speaker 44 A lot of good can come down from shutdowns. We can get rid of a lot of things that we didn't want and they'd be Democrat things.

Speaker 20 That's right.

Speaker 11 This guy is excited for the shutdown. And that's the Democrats' fatal mistake.

Speaker 43 They assume that Donald Trump cares about the government he's the president of.

Speaker 14 You think you're playing a game of chicken, but he's playing a game of let me crash into your car.

Speaker 23 And as you heard, the guy who's driving his car is the White House budget director and future Paul Giamatti Oscar role, Russell Vogt.

Speaker 12 According to Senator Mike Lee, this guy might be even more excited about tearing down the government than Donald Trump.

Speaker 45 Russ Vogt, the OMB director, has been dreaming about this moment, preparing this moment since puberty.

Speaker 31 Look, I know puberty can get weird, but

Speaker 34 this guy's balls dropped and he was like, oh, man, I want to fire people in the government so bad.

Speaker 5 President of these Democrats.

Speaker 21 This is probably the only 13-year-old in history who hit a copy of the federal budget inside a penthouse.

Speaker 23 I mean, I hope Democrats have a plan for this because letting this guy have control of the federal government, I can't think of anything scarier than that.

Speaker 5 Oh, shit. Oh, f ⁇ .
Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Sorry, I stand corrected here.

Speaker 11 For more on the Republican shutdown strategy, let's go live to DC with Michael Costa.

Speaker 11 Michael.

Speaker 34 Michael, it seems like Republicans are really enjoying this shutdown.

Speaker 30 They sure are, Ronnie. I'm outside Russell Vogt's bathroom.

Speaker 46 Once he's done jerking it in there, they're going to get to work slashing the government.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 12 Gross.

Speaker 34 He's joking off at work?

Speaker 30 He's excited, man. He's been dreaming about this moment since puberty, although

Speaker 30 it has been an hour. Hey, Russ, take it easy in there, bud.

Speaker 12 Slow and steady wins the race. Okay.

Speaker 11 Well, I guess I don't understand why the Republicans are so strict about any money going to illegal immigrants.

Speaker 19 Like, isn't that worth it if it helps give Americans health care?

Speaker 46 Absolutely not, Ronnie. That is not the American way.

Speaker 30 Obviously, we'd all love medical treatments for our diseases, but is that worth risking an illegal immigrant getting free aspirin?

Speaker 46 No way, Jose.

Speaker 30 Lo siento, Miamor.

Speaker 41 Biblioteco. Okay.

Speaker 13 Okay, listen, Michael, me personally, I think I would prefer the medical treatment for all.

Speaker 30 God, you just don't get it, Ronnie. So let me give it to you straighter than my boy Russell's giving it to his left palm in there.

Speaker 14 Here you go, big Russ.

Speaker 30 America is built on two principles. One, liquor before beer, you're in the clear, which is not really relevant here.
But two,

Speaker 46 we'd rather everybody get nothing than one illegal get anything, whether it's health care or air traffic control.

Speaker 5 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 41 Hang on, hang on.

Speaker 12 Air traffic control?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 30 Americans don't want our taxpayer dollars going to safely land a plane that illegal immigrants are on.

Speaker 12 But what if Americans are also on that plane?

Speaker 30 Well, then it would be an honor to go down in a blaze of taxpayer savings watching Jumanji 2. And

Speaker 12 speaking of balls of fire, hey, Russell, finish it up there, man.

Speaker 30 If you pull that thing off, they'll make you switch bathrooms.

Speaker 5 All right.

Speaker 21 Costa, this is so stupid.

Speaker 12 Uh-oh, it's stupid.

Speaker 30 Was it stupid to homeschool myself so I didn't risk being educated alongside some legal asylum seeker? No, because me a proud citizen of the UFA.

Speaker 3 I think it's the USA. It can be either.

Speaker 30 The bottom line is, yeah, maybe in America you go bankrupt over medical costs, but at least everyone else does too.

Speaker 30 And if you don't like that, you should have thought of that before your appendix burst. And speaking of bursting, I better go.

Speaker 30 I need to get Russell a copy of the federal budget to help him finish the job. Russ, I'm actually worried now.

Speaker 29 Yeah, Michael Costa everyone.

Speaker 10 When we come back, we find out when Sean finds his laws, so don't go away.

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Speaker 47 Welcome back to The Daily Show.

Speaker 7 Despite what some people think, Donald Trump hasn't been acting lawlessly.

Speaker 23 He's just been acting under laws that people didn't know still existed.

Speaker 28 Luckily, we found the person in charge of finding those laws.

Speaker 44 I will invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 180, of 1798.

Speaker 44 Think of that. 1798.
That's when we had real politicians that said, we're not going to play games. We have to go back back to 1798

Speaker 45 Who has two thumbs and helped Trump find that law as the kids would say twas I

Speaker 49 My name is Thaddeus Mandible Crowley, and I am the White House's senior advisor for super old laws

Speaker 49 When President Trump needs to dredge up some old forgotten law to justify whatever deliciously insane idea has popped into his head.

Speaker 50 They call me.

Speaker 49 So, you want to leak laxatives into the LA water supply? Convert the Harvard campus into a mud wrestling arena. Surround Charles Schumer's residence with anti-Semitic tigers.
How delightful!

Speaker 49 Let me see what I can find.

Speaker 45 I knew right from the start that Donald and I were going to click.

Speaker 19 One of his first executive orders references the 1807 Insurrection Act.

Speaker 45 Most presidents focus on passing new laws, but Donald is special.

Speaker 13 He knows that everything he needs is already here

Speaker 5 somewhere.

Speaker 21 That's the beauty of America.

Speaker 49 Thousands upon thousands of laws that never expire, ready to be deployed hundreds of years later to justify the ethically dubious whims of our mercurial leader.

Speaker 9 Oh, yeah, that'll work.

Speaker 5 And I am intimately familiar with all of them since I was alive when they were written.

Speaker 49 How old are you?

Speaker 45 How old is the night?

Speaker 13 How old are the dreams of a nation?

Speaker 45 How old?

Speaker 9 Okay, never mind.

Speaker 49 Some laws I'm keeping on standby just in case Donald should need them.

Speaker 49 This one here from 1832 says the president can fornicate with any state legislator if he deems it necessary for national security.

Speaker 49 This one from the Civil War era, good times, gives you immunity for crimes committed after the solstice if your child's height surpasses eight feet. Way to go, Baron!

Speaker 49 And this one here from 1762 just says no uggos.

Speaker 49 You'll want that at some point.

Speaker 49 Some people say, Thaddeus, can't you just look these laws up on the intranet? And to that, I say, ha!

Speaker 49 Good luck finding this in your tangled world wide web. It's a scroll of ancient laws that I personally stole from the tomb of an Egyptian witch.

Speaker 45 Saving this bad boy for the third turn when Trump really lets loose.

Speaker 49 But that being said, yes, sometimes I'll use croc and you devil machine!

Speaker 49 I usually get one, maybe two semi-fascist requests per week. Today's been pretty quiet.

Speaker 16 Your message to communist Zorhan Mandami.

Speaker 44 Well, then we'll have to arrest him.

Speaker 49 Looks like Ordadi's about to be busy to the archives, Bartholomew.

Speaker 49 Is it glamorous working for the president?

Speaker 50 Not really.

Speaker 3 But serving this administration has been the honor of my life.

Speaker 49 Hello, Mr. President.

Speaker 5 Oh,

Speaker 49 Mr. Stephen Miller, what can I do for you?

Speaker 49 You need a law to justify feeding immigrants to other immigrants.

Speaker 50 Now that man, total weirdo,

Speaker 49 gives me the creeps.

Speaker 49 When we come back, come and Wee will be joining you on the show, so don't go away.

Speaker 14 On October 17th, I'm an angel. See the wings?

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Speaker 52 Welcome back to The Daily Show.

Speaker 34 My guest tonight is the features editor at The Verge, an author whose latest novel is called My Documents.

Speaker 21 Please welcome the one and only Kevin Wynn.

Speaker 9 These are all plants?

Speaker 38 People still read.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 41 Thank Buddha that they still read. Thank you for writing a book so people can read it.

Speaker 34 Yeah, thank you. My documents.

Speaker 32 Little

Speaker 43 Vietnamese on the top here. You want to explain yourself?

Speaker 41 Yeah, it's a trendy.

Speaker 12 Why are you trying to trick people into the title here?

Speaker 38 Well, it's a Vietnamese word, actually. It's pronounced me.
And it's more like if you're Vietnamese, there's like a little bonus for you.

Speaker 20 A little Easter egg here. A little Easter egg.
And the rest of us, we just look stupid saying my documents.

Speaker 20 Right? And you're like, you're just laughing to yourself every time I say my documents.

Speaker 38 And this is in reference to oh yeah it's the Vietnamese word for America right

Speaker 38 you think it's just a reference to like Windows 95 right

Speaker 31 yeah and what you I mean

Speaker 38 you want to explain what the book is about sure something yeah it imagines this like far-fetched dystopian future where the government is detaining people for no reason

Speaker 38 I've completely imagined this right

Speaker 3 I mean, you say that, but you did imagine this, because you wrote, this came out earlier this year.

Speaker 48 So you wrote it, I mean, I think you started writing it in 2018.

Speaker 34 2018, yeah.

Speaker 38 Actually, I was writing this. I came up with this idea in the throes of the first Trump administration.
And Trump had evoked, even back then, the Alien Enemies Act, which

Speaker 38 is basically like the threadbear piece of legislation that allowed FDR to incarcerate Japanese Americans during World War II.

Speaker 38 So I just kind of imagine, like, what if it happened again today?

Speaker 38 And because I'm Vietnamese, I made it happen to Vietnamese people.

Speaker 48 Right.

Speaker 19 And that, what's the outcome? Is it good?

Speaker 38 It's not great. Yeah.

Speaker 29 It's not great.

Speaker 38 Yeah, they don't love it.

Speaker 31 What made you, what, like,

Speaker 17 in the book, it's a real, I mean, I did read it.

Speaker 19 It's like Explorer.

Speaker 20 It's a real, it's a...

Speaker 38 You got to see like the little

Speaker 33 notes in there.

Speaker 5 Dog tags in there.

Speaker 22 Dog ears.

Speaker 17 Just to make you believe me. See, look, I wrote.

Speaker 28 See, look, it's like pencil markings here.

Speaker 3 No, but I mean, I'll get to some of the structural things in this book, which I find very interesting.

Speaker 19 I mean, whatever, I would say before I forget, like, one thing that's interesting about this book is that the chapters kind of get shorter and shorter the more you get into it.

Speaker 28 And I was wondering, like, did you do that for like a dumbass TikTok generation?

Speaker 11 Because I gotta tell you, I hate to admit it, but the shorter chapters kind of made it like, oh, I can, you know, I can sneak another chapter in there.

Speaker 33 It's like watching a book reel.

Speaker 31 I don't know if that makes.

Speaker 38 No, it's, I mean, it's partly a way to make a book propulsive, is to shorten the chapters. Right.

Speaker 38 An original version was like 100,000 words, and I sent it to my agent, and she was like, you got to make this shorter. And the next version I sent her was like 150,000 words.

Speaker 38 The one you get to read today is closer to 80, so it's much more reasonable.

Speaker 18 Yeah, and I mean, it's still, you know, a complete story.

Speaker 33 I don't know what you took out from the 120,000 word version, but and it's kind of intense, man, because because it goes, I mean, you're open on this very personal story about your, it's based in reality about, I assume, the grandmother character here who was fleeing Vietnam, and it's her experience, you really write from her perspective.

Speaker 38 It's loosely based on some family lore, and then it goes in its own direction.

Speaker 38 But I don't know, it's just this interesting thing where thematically it's about what happens when you don't learn your own history. Sure.

Speaker 38 A bit of the foundation of this is, you know, I didn't learn about Japanese American incarceration until I got to college. I took a course about it.

Speaker 38 And, you know, like, I think in middle school, I did an entire year about World War II and what happened to Japanese Americans. Didn't come up even once, not even for an afternoon.

Speaker 38 And I remember being so embarrassed about that, but also, you know, if your education system will not tell you these stories, how are you supposed to find them out?

Speaker 38 And then, you know, similar, like, my parents are immigrants. They fled during the Vietnam War.

Speaker 38 There are certain stories like they won't tell me or didn't tell me for a long time, which is, is their right, you know?

Speaker 38 But at what point, like, are we as a younger generation supposed to be curious about that? What happens when we aren't curious about that?

Speaker 38 So the book is about four young people who, I think, in a way, start very incurious and are forced to become curious about their history.

Speaker 48 Sure. And I mean, you're drawing direct parallels between the Vietnamese refugee experience and the fictional future.

Speaker 38 Yeah, the fictional future that hasn't arrived yet.

Speaker 7 That hasn't arrived yet.

Speaker 38 The government is just disappearing people for no reason for their political beliefs. I'm glad we're so far from that.

Speaker 41 Yeah, I mean, it's just all of this.

Speaker 3 This is like sci-fi. It's almost unbelievable.

Speaker 20 So, I mean, what, I don't know if it's even easy for you to talk about because I was reading this book and, I mean,

Speaker 31 you're not named in this book.

Speaker 19 You are writing a work of fiction, I think, but just reading, I was like, oh, this dude is working through some shit right here.

Speaker 23 Because the stuff you're going through, like, I feel like a lot of Asian

Speaker 20 people go through, I mean, not even necessarily Asian Americans, this idea of like you start off, even me in Malaysia, we start off like kind of not knowing much about the history of what happened there.

Speaker 19 You kind of almost reject it in a way for whatever reason. Maybe it's because you're kind of, you know,

Speaker 19 trying to be,

Speaker 19 like, you're more a fan of Americana.

Speaker 28 culture, so you're trying to like focus on that.

Speaker 20 You're geeking out on American stuff, so maybe you ignore whatever cultural history you have.

Speaker 22 Whatever the reason is.

Speaker 53 I'm just saying that we all have this weird journey where in our, we ignore it most of our lives, and then everyone hits their 20s, and then everyone goes to college,

Speaker 22 and then they get this like,

Speaker 5 oh, what?

Speaker 22 What the hell is going on in Asia? And then you start to read up more about it on your own, and then you're like, oh man, I haven't been connected to this.

Speaker 20 So I feel like...

Speaker 38 Yeah, I think when people are young, and maybe this is just us, but you just, you want to fit in, right? And so just like learning about your individual history is not an appealing prospect.

Speaker 38 And yeah, like when you say, I'm working through some shit,

Speaker 38 I don't know, have you tried to find a therapist lately? It's like impossible. It's just way easier to write a hundred thousand words of fiction.

Speaker 18 No, I'm not, I don't look for a therapist.

Speaker 4 I'm trying to monetize this mental illness as long as I can.

Speaker 18 That's all this is, honestly. Comedy, yeah.

Speaker 23 And look how far it got me. So,

Speaker 29 social therapy, yeah.

Speaker 41 You guys are

Speaker 10 you don't know what you're cheering for, right?

Speaker 5 there.

Speaker 41 You're cheering for no therapy.

Speaker 32 But yeah, so there's, I mean, in this book, you also kind of

Speaker 18 mock this idea of AAPI in America, this AAPI voting block that was created.

Speaker 48 I mean, I don't think I'm giving anything away, but there's...

Speaker 38 It kind of started as a joke for myself when I was writing the piece of legislation that sends all Vietnamese people to camp is called the American Advanced Protections Initiative, which, you know, the acronym is AAPI.

Speaker 38 And I think even like as we got closer to publishing, I was like, is that like too on the nose? Is that not funny? Would the right wing really go after like acronyms of all things?

Speaker 38 And then as it was coming out, like Trump just wouldn't say a single sentence without muttering DEI.

Speaker 23 Right.

Speaker 19 Right. And so, and, and I mean, that brings us to what I find interesting about this book is that you kind of, you're, you're not tackling it from this kind of traditional left progressive.

Speaker 48 You're trying to be really nuanced with the views in it, I think.

Speaker 24 Like even this AAPI thing where you market.

Speaker 16 I mean, for me, sometimes I find it like weird.

Speaker 18 Like, what do you mean, AAPI month?

Speaker 5 Like,

Speaker 18 I'm Asian all year. You know what I mean?

Speaker 29 Like, I don't know what, so what we get this month, and like, don't, you know, don't, it's, it's kind of condescending in a way sometimes when they're like, oh, yeah, we got the, here's the, here's the Asian comics.

Speaker 53 Let's trot out these people who couldn't make it on the, you know, any other platform.

Speaker 23 And it's like, well, at what point does, you know, sell like this kind of diversity diversity thing become token and condescending and you know?

Speaker 38 Yeah, I mean, the worst part, I think, our month is May, right? So like we lead right into Pride Month, which is like clearly the better month. Right.

Speaker 7 Like it's just so much more fun.

Speaker 5 You know?

Speaker 38 We're just like doing like dumpling making classes.

Speaker 5 And Pride has like a whole parade in every city.

Speaker 18 So where do you stand on that?

Speaker 18 Because this API month as a voting block in America, it's like, one of the lines in this book is you go like, one of the only things that seems to unfortunately unite Asian Americans is racism.

Speaker 17 As as in people being racist to us.

Speaker 38 I mean I just think that like you know even though some people might think like you and I look alike yeah but we don't our language is different our food's different.

Speaker 23 Back in the old country we hate each other.

Speaker 32 Yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 22 But here we're like forced to unite against I know but we're just like

Speaker 38 running through it, right? We do hate each other.

Speaker 7 We hate each other and then now but here I'm forced to put you on my show and then you're you're forced to, you know, you're forced to write a book about it and then we all.

Speaker 38 They wouldn't put me on during like a Josh Josh Johnson reading.

Speaker 10 Yeah, so I mean, where do you stand on that in America?

Speaker 38 At the same time, I think

Speaker 38 there is strength and solidarity, but sometimes in that, I think we lose the individuality.

Speaker 38 My day job, I work as a journalist, and then on the side, I write novels, and I think about the goals of each thing, even though they are both ostensibly writing.

Speaker 38 I think in journalism, you try and take a lot of muddy ideas and try to clarify it for the reader.

Speaker 38 And I think a powerful thing you can do in fiction is you can take assumptions or things people thought were clear and muddy it up. And so I think

Speaker 38 in terms of Asian American identity, that's something that the book really challenges and muddies up a lot.

Speaker 48 And what's, I guess you don't want to give away the conclusion.

Speaker 22 Is there a conclusion to that? I mean, it's.

Speaker 38 I don't think there's a strong takeaway.

Speaker 38 The point of the book is not abolish the

Speaker 38 phrase AAPI. But I do think we should challenge it and we should really think about individually individually what it means to be Asian American or if that's even a useful term anymore.
Sure.

Speaker 4 And as someone who spent a lot of time, like you spent basically, I think you wrote this for five years

Speaker 4 thinking about this scenario, thinking about the history of Asian Americans. And unfortunately, you know, the book kind of is catching up to reality now.

Speaker 17 Like, where do you, I mean, what, do you have a takeaway for what we

Speaker 41 can fix everything, please?

Speaker 38 Please fix it. The answer is really, it's actually on the last page of of the book.
So

Speaker 38 you'll just have to go buy the book and then see what's in for us.

Speaker 38 I don't think there are like strong takeaways.

Speaker 38 When I started writing it, I was like, I did want the book to be really grounded in reality.

Speaker 38 A lot of the forces... that are at play, you know, we've been living under the Department of Homeland Security for two decades.
Some people act like ICE just emerged during this second Trump term.

Speaker 38 It's been with us for a very long time.

Speaker 38 You know, we have this history of Japanese American incarceration. We have the legacy of the Vietnam War, Vietnam War.
You know, like, and ICE has been detaining migrants.

Speaker 38 They've detained millions of migrants over the past decade. Like, what's happening right now has escalated, but it is not new.

Speaker 38 And so, I think the goal of the book was to kind of draw like a line between all of these things.

Speaker 38 They seem like disparate forces in America, but I think they're actually all quite part of American history.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 48 And I mean,

Speaker 20 I guess your hope by writing this is, I mean, what,

Speaker 20 sorry if this is a hacky question, but that you get asked a lot, but like, what, I mean, what do you hope people take away from this?

Speaker 38 I was just trying to avoid therapy.

Speaker 38 But

Speaker 38 I don't know, I think it's...

Speaker 5 Now you put it on us, how we ought to be therapy after reading this.

Speaker 38 No, I mean, the book is about a family that muddles through or struggles and survives through this scenario. So I think there is something kind of hopeful about that.

Speaker 38 It's about challenging the assumptions of your life and your family story and your family history and how we connect after that.

Speaker 33 Well, hey, thanks for contributing to trying to get people to read again.

Speaker 48 I really appreciate it.

Speaker 14 Thanks for taking the time to write a book and putting your own history into it.

Speaker 48 I think, you know, if nothing else, I hope people can get,

Speaker 24 I think it's nice that you put in the story of Vietnamese refugees in there at the start.

Speaker 19 It's very touching, it's very heartfelt.

Speaker 4 The very first chapter got me sucked in already. So thanks for sharing that.
And thanks for writing the book.

Speaker 33 And thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, appreciate having me.

Speaker 33 My document, the margin, is available now. It's Kevin Wayne, everybody.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back after this.

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