709 - Butter vs Margarine - live

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Speaker 1 You're listening to the dollop.

Speaker 4 This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a swordfish cherry guy.

Speaker 1 Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the Highland House was thinking.

Speaker 4 I mean, none of us do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's crazy. What the fuck? Like, why wouldn't you? They were putting it through the washer.

Speaker 1 Why would you clean it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Let it stay dirty and just use it again. You're not.

Speaker 1 You glib, Matt. You're glib.
You're not listening.

Speaker 4 You're the only guy who wants dirty swordfish.

Speaker 1 You're not listening. That's not what I want.

Speaker 1 I want a fresh from the box swordfish.

Speaker 4 Well, then why didn't you take your swordfish home? So they had to do that.

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 1 But it was a reuse.

Speaker 1 What year?

Speaker 1 1422? Let's go. Come on.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 4 Chop, chop.

Speaker 1 Let's go. Just like

Speaker 1 you need to go to February 23, 2nd, 1841. Come on.

Speaker 4 You need to go to therapy. Let's get moving.
To work out your swordfish.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't need to go to therapy. I'm doing really good with my swordfish.
Why not?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 1812.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 In 1812, Napoleon attempted to conquer Russia and failed spectacularly.

Speaker 4 His troops suffered horribly on the retreat due to the cold and lack of food leading to the deaths of close to a million.

Speaker 4 50 years later, Napoleon III wanted his troops to be better supplied. That meant the foods that lasted longer were cheaper and nutritious.
Now, the French love bread and butter.

Speaker 1 Yep, that's it.

Speaker 4 Now, specifically, Napoleon III wanted an alternative for butter, so that way you didn't have cows cruising along with the troops, or fewer, you could have fewer cows or whatever.

Speaker 4 So, when Prussia started eyeing France as part of its expansion plans, Napoleon III started a competition with a big money prize.

Speaker 4 So, in 1869, french chemist hippolyte mégy marie came up with a lower priced spread made from beef tallow oh

Speaker 1 oh that is right i've come up with a new way to uh spread um we're going to use a beef tallow and it's going to be an exceptional

Speaker 1 trust me we're all going to live out my father's trauma because

Speaker 1 My dad I watched my dad and my uncle get shot in their hands

Speaker 1 So now we all have to suffer.

Speaker 1 And you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to take down that pretty woman from Kirby or enthusiasm with me.

Speaker 1 She's also going to come down.

Speaker 1 What are you looking at?

Speaker 4 I was asking him to cut your mic.

Speaker 4 He called it oleomargorine.

Speaker 4 From the Latin oleum meaning beef fat, and the Greek margarite, meaning pearl.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wait, so what was the first word? Oleum.

Speaker 4 It's for Latin for beef fat.

Speaker 1 So he's got beef pearls?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 1 Fuck yeah, bro.

Speaker 1 Well, we went to Inseminator, but somebody had already put these things, these weirdos are calling beef pearls up there.

Speaker 1 Apparently, they like it better. They have bigger cowgasms.

Speaker 1 Make more mugo.

Speaker 1 Speaking of which, this mugooo could be a pretty good spread if you wanted to put it on a charcuterie.

Speaker 1 Can I leave? Yeah, of course. I just want to be clear.
Anyone can leave whenever they're ready to go. Yeah,

Speaker 1 those doors are locked, but you can figure it out. We play by Scientology rules.

Speaker 1 You can leave whenever, but there's no windows and every door is locked. And if you do get out, we'll kill your family.

Speaker 1 But you're free to go.

Speaker 1 Or have a little mugu.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right, there you go.
Look who's back.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Oleo margarine was cheaper and kept better than butter. And besides the troop, the emperor was hoping the poor would eat it,

Speaker 4 but they all hated it.

Speaker 4 So Meget Marie sold his patent to Juergens, a Dutch butter-making company.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 Mejet Marie then didn't make much money from that, and he died poor, and he watched margarine become successful worldwide.

Speaker 1 Wait,

Speaker 1 so he never got. He was like the Nick Drake of buttery spreads.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's what they call him in history. The Nick Drake of buttery spreads.

Speaker 1 Just died like, man, I didn't do anything. But everyone was like, you know, there's a lot of hidden messages in his margarine.

Speaker 1 I think he predicted. Take a bite of that.
I think he predicted his own death.

Speaker 4 Way to bring everything up. Margarine was patented in 1873 and began rolling out across the U.S.

Speaker 1 Oh, fuck. What are we dealing with here? I don't know why you're booing.

Speaker 4 They're going to boo margarine a lot because this is Wisconsin. Just

Speaker 4 let it

Speaker 4 seem like.

Speaker 4 The Oleo Margarine Manufacturing Company opened in New York and started a PR push immediately in a Telegraph courier column titled, Butter Made Without Cream.

Speaker 4 Quote, this new butter is made from the same material as ordinary butter, but this material is obtained by a more simple and natural process than milking the cows.

Speaker 1 It's an interesting phase to skip.

Speaker 1 Of all the steps, that feels like a very crucial step.

Speaker 4 It's more natural because there's no fruit. It's from cow.
No, it's from cow.

Speaker 1 How?

Speaker 4 Well, it's all, it's, it's the same. It's from also from cow.
But you said you don't. Well, you can take it out the side

Speaker 4 or the top of the cow.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can. You're opening it up.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Okay. Are we doing well when you can hear a can drop?

Speaker 4 I think so.

Speaker 4 It's a sign of killing.

Speaker 1 That's a Wisconsin Jewish wedding, by the way. Not a lot of people know that.

Speaker 1 You drop a Paps. Yeah, fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 Lahams. Open parts.

Speaker 4 All Paps.

Speaker 4 To make sense of it, the paper explained it more. Quote: Now,

Speaker 4 one would naturally say this butter is made from tallow. Not so.
It is made from the same material as tallow, as also the same material as ordinary butter, the oil from the fatty tissue of the animal.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 This poor guy.

Speaker 1 It's pretty confusing. So it is made from tallow?

Speaker 4 Not so.

Speaker 4 It is made from the same material as tallow, which is also the same material as ordinary butter. The oil from the fatty tissue of the animal.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it's not tallow?

Speaker 4 It's not tallow.

Speaker 1 It's made from the same material.

Speaker 1 It's made from the same material as tallow. But it isn't tallow.

Speaker 4 It's made from the oil, from the fatty tissue of the animal.

Speaker 4 Same as ordinary butter.

Speaker 1 It feels like the.

Speaker 4 It's the same.

Speaker 4 It just comes out from a different part.

Speaker 1 Why do I feel like Abbott?

Speaker 1 We're doing who's on tallow.

Speaker 4 It's more natural.

Speaker 1 What is?

Speaker 4 The margarine. Getting the

Speaker 1 fake tallow.

Speaker 1 Yes. But it's not tallow and it's not from green.
It's from the cow. No, where is it from the cow?

Speaker 4 It's from the fatty tissue of the animal.

Speaker 4 The oil from the fatty tissue.

Speaker 4 You don't milk it.

Speaker 1 You just sort of scoop it.

Speaker 4 You take out a scoop.

Speaker 1 So, what are you like rendering it?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Is that a yes, period, or a yes question mark?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 1 What is it?

Speaker 4 It's oil from the federal government.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, I don't. No, don't.
Do not answer again.

Speaker 1 Even if I say what is it, don't answer. Do you understand? Yes.

Speaker 1 Go ahead. I'm not going to ask.

Speaker 4 While there was some blowback and worries over fraudulent ingredients in Europe over margarine, it was nothing like the U.S.

Speaker 4 The agricultural community was immediately upset. Americans were suspicious, alarmed, and people raged against margarine.

Speaker 4 This morphed into a movement to suppress margarine.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 It worked.

Speaker 4 People said it threatened the family farm, the moral order, and the American way of life.

Speaker 1 In retrospect,

Speaker 1 maybe not a

Speaker 1 maybe not a freak out, maybe not just being paranoid. Maybe accurate.

Speaker 4 It was an attack on the superiority of farm life.

Speaker 4 Politicians made passionate speeches about, quote, sweet and wholesome butter.

Speaker 1 I can't fucking believe they.

Speaker 1 I cannot imagine.

Speaker 1 It's like a buttery APAC.

Speaker 1 Just takes over the gun.

Speaker 1 So they've just, no matter what, there's always a nice handful of politicians who are like this is the way yes future generations will be loving margarine and you will look like a buttery idiot if you're hanging back

Speaker 4 so governor Hubbard

Speaker 1 had margarine in his cupboard

Speaker 4 So Governor Hubbard of Minnesota lamented that, quote, the ingenuity of depraved human genius has culminated in the production of oleo Margar and its kindred abominations.

Speaker 1 Nice.

Speaker 4 Wisconsin was just getting into the butter and cheese game when margarine arrived.

Speaker 1 Whoa, that's wild. That is wild to even picture.

Speaker 1 Back who were like, maybe we will have cows.

Speaker 1 What do you say?

Speaker 1 Gotta do something.

Speaker 1 We'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 Don't worry about it.

Speaker 4 The state was shifting from small farms to factory production of butter and cheese. And that's because Wisconsin small farms were making butter of, quote, abysmal quality.

Speaker 1 Easy does it now, David. Easy does it.

Speaker 1 This is a long time ago, everybody.

Speaker 1 Everyone's like, why don't you shut your fucking mouth? This fucking guy's talking shit about our butter.

Speaker 1 People on the streets, where are we going? Some fucking asshole comedian's in town from Los Angeles. We're going to kill him.
Why? He's fucking shit talking butter again.

Speaker 1 You suck it. Suck the fucking butter.
You like that butter, don't you? Let him live.

Speaker 1 Shut up.

Speaker 4 Wisconsin butter was made in the summer from a tiny amount of milk. Usually the wife made the butter and she may not have had the knowledge or equipment.

Speaker 1 Is that important?

Speaker 1 Is that important to know the recipe? So she just fucking be like, all right, go outside, figure it out.

Speaker 1 And I don't have any idea how to make it. Shut up.
It's hot. Get out.
Go outside.

Speaker 1 Go use your fucking broom thing. Yeah, do this with your arms or whatever.

Speaker 4 You know how to do that.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 1 I'm gonna shut these windows though. You're making a lot of noise.

Speaker 1 Fucking games on idiot.

Speaker 1 I think that's pretty bad again.

Speaker 1 Would be nice if someone gave me the recipe.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 What if I just pour it on this popcorn here? That makes no sense. Jesus Christ, what are you from fucking Minnesota? Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes, I was. Not anymore.

Speaker 1 No, but that's where I'm originally from, Clark.

Speaker 1 God damn it.

Speaker 1 Well, you asked the basic question.

Speaker 1 I met you three years ago.

Speaker 4 I got the noise won't stop.

Speaker 1 And I love you.

Speaker 4 Stop the noise.

Speaker 1 But I don't know how many more times I could go outside just tinkering with a recipe that I have no access to. To make the fucking butter!

Speaker 1 I don't know what it is, really.

Speaker 1 Do you understand how complicated and dark it is?

Speaker 1 Every day you send me out there in way too many clothes.

Speaker 1 And you give me one of the sweatiest exercises I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 I'm just sloshing around a stick in some weird goo.

Speaker 1 It's like it's moo goo or something like that.

Speaker 4 That was like some kind of inside joke.

Speaker 1 No, I told it outside.

Speaker 1 Look.

Speaker 1 I don't know what I'm doing out there,

Speaker 1 but I'll tell you what I do believe in.

Speaker 1 Us.

Speaker 1 I believe we will figure this out together.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 1 Yes. Why do you say no? No.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 4 I'm going to make margarine.

Speaker 4 What? By myself in the shed.

Speaker 1 Well, that's quite a turn.

Speaker 4 And we're going to give it to my new girl.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 I really thought we'd wrap this up a moment ago.

Speaker 4 It's hard to tell with you, honestly.

Speaker 1 I can't believe you're just having an affair.

Speaker 1 I'm right outside all day.

Speaker 1 I'm literally

Speaker 1 in the window. You make bad butter.
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 Then you don't know what love is.

Speaker 1 What are you doing?

Speaker 1 This is insane.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 this leads to butter of uneven quality. Even butter that was made well could deteriorate while waiting to be shipped to the city.

Speaker 4 In Chicago,

Speaker 4 they called Wisconsin butter Western Greece.

Speaker 1 All right. We'll finish the show

Speaker 1 and then we're going to Chicago.

Speaker 1 And we'll show them who does butter.

Speaker 4 In Chicago, Wisconsin butter was sold as a lubricant, not for eating.

Speaker 1 Now hold on a minute.

Speaker 1 I feel like there's a market we've not been thinking of.

Speaker 1 That's called Wisconsin style.

Speaker 1 Put a little on each side like a grilled cheese. Let's party.

Speaker 4 So in 1872, the Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 Wait, are people really lubricated? Not lubricants. Yes, really.
For fucking. No, for.

Speaker 4 Jesus Christ, man.

Speaker 4 Get your fucking head out of the gutter.

Speaker 1 Get my head out of the gutter.

Speaker 4 You can also use it for machinery and like a fucking bike chain.

Speaker 4 Yes, you can do that too.

Speaker 1 I'm turning the butter

Speaker 4 in 1872.

Speaker 1 But hear me out. No,

Speaker 1 it probably happened.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm sure some weirdo like you using is a fucking

Speaker 1 no shame in that. We're just hitting.
Hold on, let me get the butter.

Speaker 1 All right, honey. I'm not putting it on mine.

Speaker 4 who's are you putting it on?

Speaker 1 Who's or who's her? We're doing buttercooter.

Speaker 1 I'm already wet.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ. What?

Speaker 4 Your father's here.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I believe he left.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 Let me tell you what this podcast is about asking important questions

Speaker 1 and coming to conclusions. And I think together we came to a conclusion.
It was probably also used for fucking.

Speaker 4 I don't know if we came to that together or if it's just something you needed to happen for some weird reason

Speaker 4 butter-related something you did as a child.

Speaker 1 I've never done it, but my life's not over, is it?

Speaker 1 Your dad was always like, why is all the butter always gone?

Speaker 1 Why are you taking it out at such huge holes?

Speaker 4 So in 1872,

Speaker 4 The Wisconsin Dairymen's Association was formed to develop a modern butter industry.

Speaker 4 It was created to make butter, better butter, and promote it, but quickly switched to protecting butter from competitors. They realized that the shit quality of Wisconsin butter was an issue.

Speaker 1 This is such a comeback story we're about to hear.

Speaker 4 So president of the Wisconsin Dairyman's Association, Hiram Smith, quote, oleo margarine is giving better satisfaction than most most dairy butter as now made he believed if butter quality was not improved by the state margarine would completely take over in cities in cities yes

Speaker 4 so this city

Speaker 4 weird it's cheaper uh-huh so he just thinks it'll take over he thinks and this and also the travel time of butter it's like obviously okay not not going well sure so oleomargarine was attacked so senator joseph quarrels said butter must come from dairies, not slaughterhouses.

Speaker 1 Quote, I want butter that has the natural aroma of life and health.

Speaker 1 I decline to accept as a substitute, call fat, matured under the chill of death, blended with vegetable oils, and flavored by chemical tricks.

Speaker 1 Your steak, Senator?

Speaker 1 But I love steak. I enjoy a steak, but

Speaker 1 I I will eat a steak. Fuck

Speaker 4 Papers called oleo margarine a vile adulteration.

Speaker 1 An adulteration.

Speaker 1 We're cheating on butter

Speaker 1 with our dirty mistress.

Speaker 1 Margarine

Speaker 4 in the shed.

Speaker 4 Where it belongs.

Speaker 1 Where it belongs.

Speaker 4 Where the dirty stuff happens. Yeah.

Speaker 4 The Koshocton Tribune.

Speaker 1 The what?

Speaker 4 Go ahead. Did I say it?

Speaker 1 The Koshocton? Koshocton.

Speaker 4 C-O-S-H-O-C-T-O-N? Koshoctin?

Speaker 1 Sure. Is that not a thing anymore? I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know. Okay.

Speaker 4 Quote.

Speaker 4 It is dangerous because, quote, it is indigestible, insoluble when made from animal fats, liable to be the vehicle for disease germs.

Speaker 4 And in the desire to make it cheaply, improper ingratiates are used. Borax, silicytic acid, benzoic acid, glycerin, alum, cow's udders, sulfuric acid,

Speaker 4 caustic potash, chalk, stomachs of pigs, sheeps, and calves, nitric acid, tallow, lard, and flour.

Speaker 1 I mean, literally,

Speaker 1 read a bag of Dorito's ingredients, you'd be like, yeah, that's pretty much it.

Speaker 4 I know now it doesn't sound so bad.

Speaker 1 No, that sounds like a regular bag. Oh, that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 Not too shabby.

Speaker 4 So, pro-butter cartoonists, or

Speaker 1 what does he got down? He's got poisons and a little bit of poison.

Speaker 4 The stuff over there is margarine being made, and on the right is the butter being made.

Speaker 1 And it looks like he's putting.

Speaker 4 Well, he's not putting. That's the factory doing it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but it looks like the factory's putting cats in the butter.

Speaker 4 And a can.

Speaker 1 And a can and a hat and a boot.

Speaker 1 They basically are like, it's the LA River.

Speaker 4 They just wrote soap up top.

Speaker 1 Soap, soap.

Speaker 4 Soap, fat.

Speaker 1 He's like, I'm sick of drawing shit.

Speaker 1 Hey, hey, Dan, did you just start to write things that were in there?

Speaker 4 Yeah, soap fat.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Dicks.

Speaker 1 Yeah, don't. First of all, don't write dicks.
And second of all...

Speaker 1 You could draw those things. Clowns.

Speaker 1 Just draw a clown then, because most of it is drawn. No, it's weird.
It's like.

Speaker 1 You don't have a deadline. I'm done.

Speaker 4 I drew the cat.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 I don't even want to give you that note.

Speaker 4 Pro butter cartoonist Drew Factories putting all kinds of stuff into margarine. Soap, paint, arsenic, rubber boots, and stray cats.

Speaker 4 Then a bunch of scientific reports said margarine caused cancer and led to insanity.

Speaker 1 It's a nice tactic.

Speaker 4 And then the other

Speaker 4 attack front was legislation. In 1881, Wisconsin passed an anti-margarine law.

Speaker 1 Fuck yeah.

Speaker 4 Are you from a farm?

Speaker 1 I get it.

Speaker 4 I get it. And

Speaker 4 other states had passed similar laws. Butter and margarine had to be clearly marked what they were.

Speaker 1 Bullshit.

Speaker 1 Fucking total bullshit.

Speaker 1 Only used for fucking.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 we're remarketing it as fuck butter.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 One could absolutely not substitute the demon spread for butter.

Speaker 4 Farmers focused on borrowing margarine from the marketplace. Big Dairy pushed Congress to pass legislation in 1886 that included labeling and packaging restrictions and taxes.

Speaker 1 Wow. So margarine was cigarettes.

Speaker 4 Manufacturers had to pay harsh licensing fees.

Speaker 1 What is this? Margarine money?

Speaker 4 That's literally, so you're paying a tax.

Speaker 1 This is your tax.

Speaker 4 And this would be on it saying that you paid your tax.

Speaker 4 It's the fucking real license.

Speaker 1 I got a polio margarine cigarette. I got to take my hat off to how patriotic our taxes are.

Speaker 4 Pretty normal.

Speaker 1 The eagle loves you.

Speaker 4 So the end result was not much because there were no margarine cops to enforce what was happening.

Speaker 1 Oh, we would have that now.

Speaker 4 So, Wisconsin passed a law requiring hotels and restaurants to post if margarine was sold on the property.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 The state barred the manufacture and sale of margarine that was colored to make it seem like butter.

Speaker 4 Wait. Did I not mention that margarine is not yellow?

Speaker 1 What color was margarine?

Speaker 4 Butter is yellow from plant carotene in the milk of grass-fed cows. Margarine was made in the industrial vats and came out white like paste.

Speaker 4 So margarine producers were coloring it yellow and the buttermakers screamed that that was deception.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 Oh, by the way,

Speaker 4 butter from corn-fred cows is also pale and commonly dyed so it comes out a pretty butter yellow, but buttermakers call this a cosmetic tweak.

Speaker 1 Well, cows are supposed to eat corn.

Speaker 1 They love the stuff.

Speaker 1 Nature.

Speaker 1 Well, that is a nut.

Speaker 1 I really do like doing that in front of the cow, too. You like the look of that?

Speaker 1 That came out of you.

Speaker 1 Must I sit here and watch it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Look at how juicy the slice is.

Speaker 1 I'm going to spread it all on my toes. Can I please go outside? Shut up.

Speaker 1 Gonna cuck this cow.

Speaker 1 You like it.

Speaker 4 By 1898, 32 out of 45 states had passed laws restricting the coloring of margarine.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 Some states, like Minnesota, required margarine to be colored pink to show how fake it was.

Speaker 1 Wow, that is.

Speaker 1 Hats off to them. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 1 How's your pink toast?

Speaker 1 They regret my decision.

Speaker 4 But the state Supreme Court ruled the pink laws were unconstitutional. The pink laws.
Wisconsin's dairy lobby tried to get a pink law passed but failed.

Speaker 4 Vermont, New Hampshire, and South Dakota passed laws requiring margin to be dyed pink. Others pushed for laws for margin to be brown or black.

Speaker 1 That would have been fucking hysterical.

Speaker 1 By the way, Australians are like, nothing wrong with putting a black thing on your toast.

Speaker 1 It's actually quite a delicacy if you spread it properly.

Speaker 4 Can you make it taste like sour and awful?

Speaker 1 Here's what it is. This is a nice black paste, and when you put it on your toast, it'll be like licking someone's forehead after they've just had a long jog.

Speaker 1 You like that? It's nice, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Black salty nightmare spread.

Speaker 4 And the texture is awful.

Speaker 1 There you are. How does it taste? Like fucking dirt.

Speaker 1 Like a fucking salt lick, mate.

Speaker 4 Wisconsin, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Ohio completely banned margarine. But the Supreme Court declared the ban unconstitutional.

Speaker 1 The Supreme Court is... What is...
Why?

Speaker 1 Now, hold on a minute. I don't want to wait a second before we start jumping in and talking about how we should not be having margarine.

Speaker 1 There's a good chance that margarine might just save us a lot of lives.

Speaker 1 How was work, honey? We're doing important stuff in there.

Speaker 4 Today we got rid of those oval tomatoes. Yeah.
And margarine.

Speaker 1 Margarine.

Speaker 1 But finally, margarine might have a second life because of me.

Speaker 1 Also, companies are now considered people.

Speaker 4 That'll work out great.

Speaker 1 That should be a fun thread to pull.

Speaker 4 I love that that was

Speaker 4 never actually a decision by the Supreme Court.

Speaker 1 Wait, what?

Speaker 4 It was never a decision.

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 4 A guy wrote it in the margin of a decision.

Speaker 1 In the margin, really.

Speaker 4 An assistant justice, the guy who was writing it up, wrote it, and they are people.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, it was like right at the end. They were like, there you go.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so it's never actually.

Speaker 4 We're just going along with it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. I mean, you can do that I think that's fine it seems to be working out pretty good

Speaker 4 okay so Wisconsin law didn't even make it past their own state Supreme Court the war on margarine was one of the most contentious political issues of the time because margarine could not be stopped

Speaker 4 Even with the restrictions, more people began using it. And margarine production increased from 3 million pounds in 1888 to 126 million pounds in 1902.

Speaker 1 What the fuck is going on?

Speaker 4 People love margarine. People do.

Speaker 4 Much of that was because you could color it yellow. So Big Dairy wants more laws.

Speaker 1 Wait, the reason why they liked it was because you could color it the same color as butter?

Speaker 4 Because you can pass it off as butter.

Speaker 1 Oh, so you'd have people over and be like, it's butter. It's better.

Speaker 4 Yeah, or it's just more palatable. Like it was just a little bit.
Like a big white slab isn't that appealing.

Speaker 1 It's delicious.

Speaker 4 What do you eat that's a big white slab?

Speaker 1 Mike Podkin.

Speaker 1 The driver.

Speaker 4 So, Vermont Representative William Wallace Grout sponsored the Grout.

Speaker 1 William Wallace, so you're named after William Wallace, and then what we put in between tiles.

Speaker 1 Freedom! Also, hold on one second.

Speaker 4 The Grout Bill, which amended the 1886 legislation,

Speaker 4 margarine was now bound by the laws of the state it was shipped from. So margarine that was colored to look like butter was

Speaker 4 taxed 10 cents a pound, while uncolored was only taxed one quarter cent a pound.

Speaker 4 And licensing fees were reduced for sellers who sold uncolored.

Speaker 4 It took years to get the bill passed, and hearings went on and on as margarine producers defended it, saying it was wholesome and cheaper for the working man.

Speaker 4 It's insane. It just went on for what are they packaging it in?

Speaker 4 Just like regular old packaging.

Speaker 1 Just like waxy, papery butter.

Speaker 4 Pro-butter farmers were being driven out of business, said they were being driven out of business and said margarine was made in horrific dirty conditions and cried for the cows that would lose their butter making jobs.

Speaker 4 What would become of them?

Speaker 1 That is so.

Speaker 4 What would become of them?

Speaker 1 As they're literally just like cutting their heads off

Speaker 1 think of the cows what's gonna happen to them well we're we're

Speaker 1 shut the fuck shut the fuck up

Speaker 1 shut up why don't we're worried about

Speaker 1 the cows shut up the cows are smarter than most dogs which we can mess with

Speaker 4 margarine makers said margarine was more wholesome than butter and that cows and that the cows that made butter were diseased and dirty and milked in disgusting barns.

Speaker 4 And they produced photos to prove it.

Speaker 4 The margarine makers also brought up the scandals from all the times when dairies sold spoiled butter that had been reprocessed and sold as fresh.

Speaker 4 They used an 1894 handbook for packing plants that described the horrors to build their arguments.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 my God, it was cheap and they cared about the poor.

Speaker 4 Oh, and margarine had to be colored because even the poor were ashamed to be seen buying it. It would not serve it in their homes.

Speaker 4 Quote, people, while they are poor, have some pride and they do not like to go into a store among people who have money and buy the article because everyone knows it is Oleo they are getting.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 So it's a shame.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's like pulling out food stamps, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Like using EBT.
You're like, just

Speaker 4 oh, look at this margarine eater.

Speaker 1 No, it's not. Animal.
No.

Speaker 1 It's better. It's for fucking.

Speaker 1 Oh. Yeah.
There you go. Anal?

Speaker 1 What? That's crazy. I'm crazy, and you're freaking me out.

Speaker 4 The view that margarines for poor people was poor people food made butter more of a status symbol, which would continue for years.

Speaker 1 That's cool.

Speaker 4 Meroline?

Speaker 1 So that's...

Speaker 1 Ugh. That's a a burning.
How did they make a worse name? I don't know.

Speaker 4 How are their billboards for beef tallow now?

Speaker 1 Well, listen, RFK's had a lot of head trauma.

Speaker 1 Cheaper than butter, more economic. Marrow.

Speaker 1 That's delicious.

Speaker 4 That's the last line.

Speaker 1 Never get rancid or sour.

Speaker 1 Cool stuff.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 Wisconsin's a big player in pushing the grout bill, and it was true that margarine was the byproduct of city slaughterhouses.

Speaker 4 So, Big Butter tells their own horror stories about grotesque conditions in them.

Speaker 4 And the grout bill finally passes in 1902, and the use of margarine plummets from 126 million pounds in 1902 to 76 million a year later.

Speaker 4 And the tax made colored margarine cost as much as butter, and licensing fees make it more expensive,

Speaker 4 at least the shittier grades of butter. So

Speaker 4 there's this loophole that allows margarine barons to sell large containers of 10 to 60 pounds.

Speaker 1 So you can sell like a p-diddy amount of it.

Speaker 1 That's all you can do.

Speaker 4 So shifty retailers could then substitute it for butter

Speaker 4 every day.

Speaker 1 Ugh in a fucking clay pot.

Speaker 1 You know what? You guys want some margarine for me? No, not anymore.

Speaker 4 We sell it by the fist.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 Here you go, ma'am.

Speaker 1 Do you have a container for your target? No,

Speaker 1 this is a fucking terrible decision.

Speaker 1 There you are. Good, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Thank God for freedom.

Speaker 4 So they just needed to put color in the white margarine. Some began to say a flat margarine tax would stop this cheating.

Speaker 4 And then they came up with a new idea, a workaround. They sent out the white margarine, but included a capsule of yellow dye with each pound so people could color it themselves in their homes.

Speaker 1 So go home and then, like.

Speaker 1 That's exactly right. My guess will never know.

Speaker 1 What'd you say? Nothing.

Speaker 4 Soon coloring margarine became a common kitchen task.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, I over yellowed it.

Speaker 1 Sweet God, we need white powder.

Speaker 4 Kareth, kids loved it.

Speaker 1 Loved margarine.

Speaker 4 Coloring the margarine.

Speaker 1 Coloring the margarine? What the fuck?

Speaker 1 TV's ruined and saved us.

Speaker 4 Quote, Maxine Clark remembers running into the kitchen with her brother just as her mother started to color margarine, asking, may I stomp it?

Speaker 1 May I stomp it? Stomp it?

Speaker 4 A butter stomper was a special tool.

Speaker 4 She watched in fascination as the margarine changed from white to yellow, carefully turning it several times to make sure the food coloring was entirely mixed in.

Speaker 4 Now, a butter stomper is like a, it looks like the same butter churn-like thing.

Speaker 1 It's like a uh-huh.

Speaker 4 But not everyone had a butter stomper. Some would mix the yellow packet with a wooden spatula, or if their mom wasn't there, some kids would use their fingers.

Speaker 1 Oh, fuck. I mean,

Speaker 1 this whole fucking nightmare just got a lot worse.

Speaker 1 Just eating it. That's very good.

Speaker 1 Could I have a little more?

Speaker 4 There's no way Billy washed his hands.

Speaker 1 He was just like,

Speaker 1 I was not playing with the pigs. I feel like in two days we'll be driving and Luke will be like, hey, Luke, look what I made.

Speaker 1 So it's a van margarine.

Speaker 4 When it was softened from mixing, it still didn't look appealing, but it was a bit improved. One boy said, quote, it was always pretty unappetizing, but it was super unappetizing when it was white.

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Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 In 1910, the Daily Northwestern, a paper from Oshkosh, published a how-to guide to idea and apprehend margarine moonshiners.

Speaker 1 Holy fuck.

Speaker 1 Butterleggers?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 Quote, their capture is often attended with as much danger as that so long associated in the public mind with the capture of the daring mountaineers who manufacture and sell whiskey.

Speaker 4 So they're saying that

Speaker 4 butter moonshine, sorry, margarine moonshiners moonshiners are as dangerous as

Speaker 4 people who boot leg whiskey.

Speaker 1 Sure. Of course.
Yeah. They go great together anyway.

Speaker 4 The paper described a margarine raid.

Speaker 1 A margarine raid.

Speaker 1 Quote.

Speaker 4 An internal revenue agent reinforced by other officers rushed into the place where the oleo margarine trade was carried on and found four men there, their arms bared and smeared with the coloring matter, which they were using to convert the white oleo margarine into yellow.

Speaker 1 I cannot believe we are in Butter New Jack City.

Speaker 1 Why are those women topless? Look.

Speaker 4 The men were let go by a judge who said that while they were probably not all using the three pounds, 3,000 pounds of margarine for their families, there was also no.

Speaker 1 But what fucking judges this?

Speaker 1 Now, while I doubt they were using 3,000 pounds for supper.

Speaker 4 Your Honor, I also use it for sex.

Speaker 1 As we all do.

Speaker 4 There was also no proof of illegal sales.

Speaker 1 So they let him go. So that judge was just like,

Speaker 1 I don't know where it's going.

Speaker 1 All I know is that these men, they are caught in a big system

Speaker 1 their pawns in the butter game

Speaker 4 in 1910 margarine came back strong due to new developments hydro hydrogenation or the hardening of vegetable fats I'll tell you what you take kids fingers being in it I'm listening

Speaker 1 you don't want that yeah I don't want that

Speaker 1 The hardening of vegetable fats was invented around 1900 and I think that whenever I see like anything where someone's like my kid and I are making cookies for you, I'm like, I'm not fucking eating that.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 Sally, and I baked them. I'm like, Yeah, well, fucking, nope.
I, no, I'm out.

Speaker 1 That's a child that's picking at snow. It's horrible.

Speaker 4 It's just awesome. Because I, me and Finn.

Speaker 1 I wiped my ass with my hand and made cookies.

Speaker 4 Yeah, cool. Absolutely not a song.
Happy holidays. Not a song.

Speaker 1 Fucking kidding me?

Speaker 4 Did you miss Rachel sing that one?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a Miss Rachel, yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, me and Finn made you cookies every year for

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 good for you. I'm glad you guys had a montage together.
Keep me out of it. I'll have some entimens.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 So the hardening of vegetable fats made making margarine out of vegetable fats possible.

Speaker 4 Also, federal food laws had improved the conditions of meatbagging plants, and margarine makers started using oils that made margarine yellow.

Speaker 1 The color thing is so weird.

Speaker 4 So the rich people are using yellow butter and the poor people can't afford it. Right.
And they want to be able to be like, I have butter.

Speaker 1 Right, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a Gucci. Yeah, yeah.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So they could just say it was natural, making it exempt from color taxes, right? So now there's a vegetable

Speaker 4 addition so it can look yellow.

Speaker 4 Now on top of that, they introduced one and two pound packages of margarine that included a packet of coloring stuff so you could color it easily at home according to taste.

Speaker 1 Ugh.

Speaker 1 Ugh, it's just fucking bag massaging your

Speaker 1 space butter.

Speaker 4 Need the bag.

Speaker 4 Easy color package.

Speaker 1 Always the housewife. My life's the fucking worst, but at least I can make this shit yellow finally.

Speaker 1 Go to work? Not possible.

Speaker 4 I had dreams of being a scientist.

Speaker 1 That's right. I read books all day and my head's full of knowledge, but Doug comes home drunk and demands his butter yellow.

Speaker 1 Do my own taxes? Why, no, no, no. I'm not allowed my own bank account.
But sweet mother of fucking God, I could take valium all day and squeeze this weird yellow bag.

Speaker 1 You know, life under house arrest can be pretty banal and boring.

Speaker 1 But thank God I can now get a two-pound bag of goo

Speaker 1 and stress ball my way out of all the problems.

Speaker 1 Gender prison, for sure. But at least now this bullshit can get yellow.

Speaker 1 How many women were just like, fucking son of a fucking bitch?

Speaker 4 Hey, honey, someone beat the shit out of the margarine.

Speaker 1 And it's not even yellow.

Speaker 1 Hey, the yellow powder's organized into little lines with a dollar bill rolled up next to it.

Speaker 1 The fuck's been going on in here?

Speaker 1 It's something I got to fucking talk to you about.

Speaker 1 Get the goo.

Speaker 1 Get the loop, goo.

Speaker 4 Now, Big Butter wanted the packet of color

Speaker 4 outlawed, but it never was.

Speaker 4 Oh, also, I mentioned before, Big Butter colored the butter.

Speaker 1 Big Butter colored the butter.

Speaker 4 Yeah, butter was being colored.

Speaker 1 So butter was colored, too. Yes.
So margarine is trying to be the color of a fake butter.

Speaker 4 Colors sometimes vary due to the season, and the cow, based on what the cow ate, so they gave the butter a little bit of help to adjust the tint to yellow. But that's legitimate.

Speaker 1 That's okay.

Speaker 4 But yellow margarine, deceptive. Right.
But also, quote, we are not concerned in the least about the final outcome of butter if given a fair chance to compete with margarine.

Speaker 4 Oleomargarine masquerading as butter does not provide competition but substitution.

Speaker 4 In 1915, the University of Wisconsin released studies showing rats-fed milk fats were healthier than rats-fed vegetable oils.

Speaker 1 Fucking, those rats are like, I don't know why they captured us, but this fucking rules.

Speaker 4 I know, right? They're just like, so you guys are going to be drinking a lot of milk.

Speaker 1 Okey-dokey. Hey, they put an ear on my back.

Speaker 1 I don't know what to tell you, Andy.

Speaker 1 Sucks to be you. What are you guys doing? We're eating cream all day.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 The fuck?

Speaker 4 So Hordes Dairy magazine celebrates

Speaker 1 hoards. H-O-A-N-A-N-A-N-A-N-B.

Speaker 1 Hordes. Hordes.

Speaker 4 Dairyman Magazine celebrated and published an article with an illustration of fat, happy, milk-fed rats besides crazed, unwell, vegetable-oil-fed rats.

Speaker 1 I understand doing rat tests. I mean, I don't love it, but I understand doing it.

Speaker 1 And now you're like, rats are our spokespeople.

Speaker 4 It's their retort. So they...
They had a picture of happy, milk-fed rats besides crazed, unwell, vegetable-oil-fed rats. Yeah, I get it.
Sorry, it's not a retort.

Speaker 4 They're pushing the point. Now they're driving.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're like, these rats are so happy.

Speaker 4 It's literally fucking 20 years after they made it, and they just will not stop.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right.

Speaker 4 The margarine industry began to consolidate, and now, with a few big manufacturers, they would fight back better.

Speaker 4 Also, using soybeans and cotton seed, more states now joined the margarine fight.

Speaker 1 I can let it go. No.
No. I cannot believe margarine survived this.

Speaker 4 We're only getting started. Oh, fuck.

Speaker 4 Wisconsin, you guys are out of your fucking mind.

Speaker 1 Prove it.

Speaker 4 Margarine stopped trying to compare itself to butter and created brands that stood on their own, like Parquet Mazzola and Blue Bonnet. And then came the Great Depression.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy.

Speaker 4 Margarine was cheaper.

Speaker 4 So people had resisted it and now started using it. In December 1931, angry Wisconsin farmers protested outside the Capitol building.

Speaker 4 So the state legislature passed more laws to protect dairy farmers, new licensing fees for makers and sellers of oleomargin, more taxes on uncolored margarine, and then colored margarine was completely banned.

Speaker 4 Another tax in 1935, but it didn't matter. People were coming around to margarine.
When World War II came, so did food rationing. Now people had to use margarine for the first time.

Speaker 4 FDR's head of the Federal Security Agency, Paul McNutt,

Speaker 4 was a former governor

Speaker 4 from a soybean growing state, Indiana.

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 4 Quote, he put the squeeze on butter and gave Oleo the green light to take over. Now marjoram is showing up in popular cookbooks.
After the war, it was over.

Speaker 4 Marjoram was a normal thing to find in a kitchen in Wisconsin, though it was mostly for cooking and still called white butter.

Speaker 1 I gotta say,

Speaker 1 I'm not loving the way we're using it now. Watt butter.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ. They're out in the streets with tiki torches.

Speaker 1 Watt butter. What butter.
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 We will not be replaced. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 How did they do this?

Speaker 1 Oh, shit.

Speaker 4 The

Speaker 4 National Association of Margarine Manufacturers educated customers about the nutritional qualities

Speaker 1 polio.

Speaker 4 Well, what about

Speaker 4 promotional materials and pamphlets like Taking the Mystery Out of Margarine?

Speaker 4 This pamphlet was eight pages about margarine's ingredients and step-by-step directions for coloring and molding margarine.

Speaker 1 You imagine

Speaker 1 eight pages in a pamphlet. I'd be like, buddy.
Do you know what a pamphlet is? It's great. It's shocking.

Speaker 1 Oh!

Speaker 1 Look at what I can do.

Speaker 4 After the war, federal restrictive laws were repealed, but it was also a years-long fight. Now the can was kicked back to the states, but without federal support, very difficult.

Speaker 4 So states began repealing color laws.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh. Most tax.

Speaker 1 Now it can't be.

Speaker 1 We did that before we, civil rights. We were like, yeah.

Speaker 1 Black people are like, oh, awesome. Like, well, hold up, hold, nope.

Speaker 1 Not you. I think you got the wrong idea.
No. We're talking about spreads.

Speaker 4 But without federal support, very different. Oh, sorry.
Most taxes stayed because it was a source of revenue. Between the 1920s and 1950s, butter consumption in the U.S.

Speaker 4 declined by one-third while margarine sales quadrupled.

Speaker 1 Those fuckers.

Speaker 4 You can't stop it.

Speaker 4 But Wisconsin refused to change.

Speaker 4 One could not buy colored margarine in the state.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 The federal minimum wage was 75 cents, and the tax on oleo was 15 cents a pound.

Speaker 1 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 You got to really want it.

Speaker 1 Nobody would want it that much.

Speaker 1 It's a tariff.

Speaker 4 So people in Wisconsin started buying margarine on the black market. Wow.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 1 Because they wanted it.

Speaker 1 I don't. Okay.
At this point, we want it now?

Speaker 1 Because it's like hidden? I don't know.

Speaker 4 It wasn't just illegal to sell colored margarine. It was illegal to use it.

Speaker 4 Use it? It was okay to possess it, but you could not use it.

Speaker 1 It's It's like Colorado's mushroom laws in the 90s.

Speaker 1 You could have it, and they're like,

Speaker 1 what are y'all planning on doing with all that modern tonight? Nothing.

Speaker 1 It's ornamental.

Speaker 1 How come that one guy can't look us in the eyes?

Speaker 1 What are you doing, sir?

Speaker 4 He's blind.

Speaker 1 Oh, that fucking sucks.

Speaker 1 All right, you guys can go.

Speaker 1 Just don't be spreading it on nothing or using it. So you swear to God you're just going to go home and not use it? Nope.

Speaker 1 You're going to just, you wanted to have it.

Speaker 4 Just have it around.

Speaker 1 And that's it. Just to look at.
Just to look at.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for Christmas, we'll decorate the tree with it.

Speaker 1 You'll put margarine on your Christmas tree? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Isn't that kind of disgusting? No.

Speaker 1 I guess

Speaker 1 I got to take your word for it. I don't know what else I can really.
Yeah. This is a pretty stupid law if you think about it.
Yep.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Go ahead. What's them?

Speaker 1 It's okay to have.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 You just can't use it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the whole.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't want.

Speaker 1 I don't know what I, huh?

Speaker 1 No, I don't know what I'd do with it. Well, you have it around.

Speaker 1 What would I do with it?

Speaker 4 Have you ever seen like plastic fruit in a bowl?

Speaker 4 Yeah. It's not like that, but it's margarine.

Speaker 1 Just have it on your table to never use? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I said you're free to go. I'd really rather if you just left.
Honestly, this is really like, just go, please, you're free to go. That's like my polite way of saying leave.

Speaker 4 Just one little.

Speaker 1 I don't want to.

Speaker 1 There you go. I should have never taken that first grab of butter.

Speaker 1 That first taste of margarine. Little did I know my life was about to change.

Speaker 1 You were supposed to pick the kids up from school. I told you, I don't even fucking remember that.

Speaker 1 What the fuck are those helicopters?

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Speaker 4 A few people were given margarine consumer permits so they could leave legally have it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what's that for?

Speaker 4 So you could leave, leave, legally have it.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 4 So so you could legally use it for what

Speaker 4 who the fuck gets a pass you get you get a consumer permit you get to what for margarine why go into the margarine are we in or are we out you go in and you're like hey i really i gotta

Speaker 4 medically i gotta

Speaker 4 medically i gotta have i got a medical margarine license i got a condition

Speaker 4 and if i don't get you know margarine every day

Speaker 1 i'm done he has glaucoma i got glaucoma.

Speaker 4 I can't see.

Speaker 4 I get all blocked up.

Speaker 4 I need to keep everything lubed and just kind of run it.

Speaker 1 We use it for fucking. Just give us the pass.
I put in her ass. Stop it.
Why do you always go one step further?

Speaker 4 It doesn't matter. I just like to, you know, I like to yell at it.
Jesus Christ. You know, I like to yell at, and I apologize.

Speaker 4 I love you, Gladys.

Speaker 1 I can't believe someone went aw.

Speaker 1 Someone was like.

Speaker 1 Now that's nice that he said he he loved her.

Speaker 4 He literally just yelled 30 seconds ago. I put it in her ass.

Speaker 1 I thought it was disgusting until he said he loved her. And then it became a love story to me.

Speaker 1 Putting the butt in butter.

Speaker 4 So people were given margarine consumer permits so they could legally use it, but every pound they bought was recorded and reports were sent quarterly to the Department of Revenue.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? It seems so not worth it.

Speaker 4 120 permits were issued in 1954.

Speaker 4 If one was found with illegal margarine, it would be confiscated.

Speaker 4 But the entire situation is absurd because the Department of Revenue wasn't going to raid houses or inspect kids' school box lunches.

Speaker 4 A court was not going to convict anyone, so

Speaker 4 margarine smuggling became a daily part of life in Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 What in the fuck? Why?

Speaker 4 Meanwhile, it's like it's very popular nationally.

Speaker 4 Former First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt made a commercial for Good Luck Marjorie in 1959. She's marginalized.
Marjorie is cheaper, so she's like, people should use Marjorie.

Speaker 1 She's a part of it. I liked her until that.
She's an enemy now.

Speaker 1 I used to really like her.

Speaker 4 You know, she killed her husband.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 It was. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 No, she didn't.

Speaker 4 Didn't Didn't she? No. Jamie, can you.

Speaker 1 Jamie, no. Jamie, can you pull up?

Speaker 4 Jamie here. Jamie, can you check to see? I read this on the show.

Speaker 1 No, he had a heart issue. Regardless of you, asshole.

Speaker 4 No, she killed him. I just read this on the.

Speaker 1 Actually, Joe, that was AI.

Speaker 1 Oh, come on. No.
Yeah, that was AI.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but she was bad.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 4 She was bad.

Speaker 4 Come on into the mothership. I'm doing a set this Friday.

Speaker 1 No, you're not.

Speaker 1 I just looked it it up. You're not even on the mothership.
I think I am. What's going on? It's debunked on that.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 it was just mailed. So people are mailing margarine from other states.

Speaker 1 It's just fucking. What the fuck is this gooey letter?

Speaker 1 What is this?

Speaker 4 It was labeled Oleo, handle with care.

Speaker 4 If a neighbor, if like your neighbor in Madison went on a trip, they'd bring back margarine for other families.

Speaker 1 Like they'd take care of the whole block. It's exactly what I do with New New Glaris.

Speaker 1 When I get back to California,

Speaker 1 like 80 spotted cows, I'm like, I got the margarine.

Speaker 1 Savor every fucking drop, boys.

Speaker 4 They would pack their trunks with cases of margarine.

Speaker 1 Excuse me, do you old ladies have margarine in your trunks? No. No.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 But don't open it.

Speaker 1 Don't open one fucking piece of it, pig.

Speaker 1 Excuse me? What? You leave it there.

Speaker 4 Ma'am, I'm just.

Speaker 1 You open that trunk, you're going to see some shit you don't want to see. Ma'am.
That's right. You just leave the trunk alone.

Speaker 1 All right, ma'am.

Speaker 4 I was just.

Speaker 1 I'm wearing margarine on my, I mean, regular butter on my head.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 You'll have to exclude excuse Phyllis. She's hammered.

Speaker 1 She is shit-faced right now. They won't know

Speaker 1 if I go home with this big pound of butter on my head. She's really shit-faced.
She had a lot of gin this morning with our butter breakfast.

Speaker 1 Now move on.

Speaker 4 You move on.

Speaker 1 We're on the same team.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 1 Phyllis, Phyllis, it's me.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he just started threatening me like I was the cop.

Speaker 4 Fuck you.

Speaker 1 Son of a bitch. Oh, I gotta get her back.

Speaker 1 Don't you touch my margarine.

Speaker 1 I'll fucking cut you.

Speaker 4 By now, even farmers were using margarine. Oh, man.

Speaker 4 Margarine smuggling got really hot along the Wisconsin border, and border stores and gas stations stocked up and advertised that they had margarine inside.

Speaker 1 So it really was like when you would, like, before,

Speaker 1 if you're in a state where their weed's not legal for some stupid fucking reason, and the second you cross the border, they're like, hey, weed here.

Speaker 4 You know what this reminds me more of? It's the states that don't have fireworks and the states that do.

Speaker 4 That's what this reminds me of. Because if you like cross, I don't know if it's still the same, but you used to cross from like North Carolina and South Carolina.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There would just be.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, you can get as many fireworks as you want here but no weed

Speaker 4 can you still not get weed here

Speaker 4 that's weird because you guys kept fucking margarine illegal until like the fucking 90s so you're a pretty normal state we don't want to get burned again

Speaker 1 baby steps

Speaker 1 but instead we have tobacco that you can color green

Speaker 4 in the 1960s the Wisconsin Commissioner of Taxation estimated some gas stations by the state line were selling one ton of margarine per week.

Speaker 1 Oh my fucking God.

Speaker 1 What the fuck?

Speaker 1 It's just because it's off limits at this point. Yeah.
People are just like, it's contraband.

Speaker 1 South Beloit was the epicenter.

Speaker 4 The town of 4,000 was selling more than the city of Rockford, which had 130,000 people.

Speaker 1 So that's like the margarine haven.

Speaker 4 Store owners happily told anyone that even clergy and farmers were coming to buy margarine.

Speaker 1 Oh, even farmers coming here to get their shit from us.

Speaker 4 Even the priests are coming down here.

Speaker 1 Hey, go take a spoonful of that. Tell me you're not riding the fucking dragon right there, my lady.

Speaker 1 There you go. You like the taste of that? Huh? Melts in your fucking head, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 We got a room if you need to come down over there. We got some rugs laid out there and some pillows.
Walk through those beads over there, lay down. We got some nice lighting in there.
Don't worry.

Speaker 1 Just remember, you're part of a bigger problem and a bigger solution. We're all interconnected.
Go in there. Trip your fucking,

Speaker 1 go trip your tits off, ma'am. Have a nice day.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 Wisconsin was now losing out on tons of tax revenue, and, you know, it's it's really fucking dumb. Between 1945 and 1961, there were six attempts to overturn margarine laws, and all failed.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Minnesota.
I think it's time to stop wooing.

Speaker 4 That time was a long time ago.

Speaker 1 We're fucking out of our minds. 1961.
We're like, yeah. Why are you doing it? Don't know.

Speaker 1 What's your plan? Ain't got one.

Speaker 1 It's bad for you. Cocaine, fuck fuck it, still dope.

Speaker 4 Minnesota repealed their laws in 1963.

Speaker 1 Yeah, look what it did to them.

Speaker 4 Wisconsin was now the lone state with margarine illegal.

Speaker 4 Now Democrats were on the side of repeal and Republicans on the side of keeping the margarine laws.

Speaker 1 Well, that might change your feelings about it.

Speaker 4 The same arguments were made. Pro-butter people said margarine was a fraud and a color lie and that butter was the wholesome American way to go.

Speaker 4 The pro-margarine people were like, look, this is fucking stupid.

Speaker 1 You both have very compelling arguments.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 pro-butter only people, obviously you're very into butter and we understand that.

Speaker 1 But then the pro-margarine people also raise the point. What the fuck is is wrong with you? Why are you like this? Who hurt you? What the actual fuck? Are you out of your minds?

Speaker 1 Were you dropped as children? Jesus fucking shit, Christ.

Speaker 1 Get your heads out of your butter and bottoms.

Speaker 4 Also, at this time, research indicated that margarine was better for heart disease.

Speaker 1 We choose to have our hearts explode.

Speaker 4 I want to go down with the butter.

Speaker 1 These colors don't run and these arteries don't pump.

Speaker 1 Sorry to do this to you.

Speaker 1 No, thank you. I'll be dying at 54 like a good Wisconsin man.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 The biggest butterman in the state senate was James Earl.

Speaker 1 I can't wait to see the size of this man.

Speaker 4 There were literally no pictures of him. I had to look in the papers to find him.
Wow.

Speaker 4 He grew up on a farm. He led farm co-ops and organized the 1931 anti-margarine demonstration at the Capitol, which he rode to a seat in the legislature.

Speaker 4 He was essentially elected because he was anti-margarine.

Speaker 1 He was elected.

Speaker 4 And so it's 30 years later, and he's still still there.

Speaker 1 He's still there, and he's like,

Speaker 1 he's like McCarthy with the red scare butt for butter.

Speaker 1 Senator, please stop. Stop what? Butter is better.

Speaker 4 He's now on the Senate Agricultural Committee where all margarine law repeals went to die.

Speaker 4 There was also State Senator Gordon Rose Leap.

Speaker 1 Gordon Roseheap?

Speaker 4 Roseleep.

Speaker 1 Roseleep. Roseleap.
Okay.

Speaker 4 A veteran, crazy, anti-community

Speaker 4 margarine. He combined his anti-commie hate with margarine hate.

Speaker 1 Whenever... Imagine like trying to align yourself with him and be like, Jesus Christ, dude.

Speaker 1 That's the whole thing. That's why we got to keep butter pure.

Speaker 4 Why is that?

Speaker 1 Because the Soviets, these motherfuckers...

Speaker 1 You don't understand. They hate us for our fucking freedoms, which is why we can't have butter.

Speaker 4 Whenever a pro-marchment bill was introduced, he would amend it to allow its sale as long as it was colored commie red.

Speaker 1 Dare I say, I think that was the right level.

Speaker 1 Red.

Speaker 1 It's called red spread. And

Speaker 1 that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you like that, huh? Yeah, there you go. I bet you do.
Nice.

Speaker 4 Democrat Senator Martin Schreiber was from Milwaukee, and he was pro-margarine. And on June 23rd, 1965, he came up with the idea of a taste test.

Speaker 1 Oh, shit. Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 This is...

Speaker 1 Oh, boy.

Speaker 4 He had fellow senators try the two while blindfolded.

Speaker 4 Now, Senator Leverich.

Speaker 1 He's pressure on these senators.

Speaker 4 Well, Senator Leveridge declined to take part.

Speaker 1 I'll invoke the Fifth Amendment.

Speaker 1 But Rosalie did.

Speaker 4 Uh-oh. The vast majority I did.
He just keeps going.

Speaker 1 Look, I'd like another sample.

Speaker 1 Now, that one, please, again.

Speaker 1 One more over there. We're running low.
Come on, give it a bubble.

Speaker 1 Not without its charm. This one over here, please.

Speaker 1 They were saying, I don't hate it, but I don't trust it.

Speaker 1 You know, we'll just start doing humble, down, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's nice.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, that's good. Whoa, Senator.
All right.

Speaker 1 I played the fifth.

Speaker 4 The vast majority ID'd the butter and margarine correctly, but the one who didn't was Senator Rose Leap.

Speaker 4 He said the margarine was butter.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 when he learned he was wrong, he said the samples came too quickly and he didn't rinse his mouth between tests.

Speaker 1 That is so fucking funny. That is so crazy.

Speaker 1 I didn't rinse my,

Speaker 1 I was unable to, I don't know why he's always southern when it comes to this stuff.

Speaker 1 And I was unable to rinse my mouth properly. They stole it.

Speaker 1 Plus, I pounded a lot of butter even prior to the taste test.

Speaker 1 I was house and butter on the drive over here.

Speaker 4 Just in this stick, I'm not going to be able to do it.

Speaker 1 I'm what we call an alpha.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, I was butter. I was fucking stick-pounding the whole drive.

Speaker 1 I like to say, I drive a stick, but she's an automatic.

Speaker 1 From earlier.

Speaker 4 He also said the samples came too quickly.

Speaker 4 And the editor of the Pro Butter Capital Times wrote,

Speaker 4 The farmers don't need enemies when they have friends like Rose Leap blustering and blundering through the legislature and the front pages discrediting their

Speaker 1 cause.

Speaker 1 It's a career-ending taste.

Speaker 1 The spoonful I've never regretted more

Speaker 1 by Rose Leap.

Speaker 4 20 years after Rose Leap died,

Speaker 1 his daughter. His body was exhumed.

Speaker 1 God damn, it's all butter.

Speaker 1 He's just a fondue.

Speaker 1 Mother of God.

Speaker 1 Anyway, let's get in. Anyway, absolutely.

Speaker 1 Get your bread in there. He's very old.

Speaker 4 20 years after he died, a daughter revealed his wife had been secretly substituting margarine.

Speaker 4 Because of his health,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 he'd been eating margarine for years and he thought it was butter

Speaker 4 because margarine is better for your heart.

Speaker 1 At least that's what they thought then.

Speaker 1 That is such a betrayal.

Speaker 1 How fucking dare she?

Speaker 1 She's here tonight.

Speaker 4 In 1966, redistricting came and Leverich lost his seat, which was a big blow for butter.

Speaker 4 The governor said he'd support a realistic margarine repeal bill.

Speaker 1 This is like what people think Wisconsin politics is.

Speaker 1 Like in other states, like, what do you do? Just fucking debate theory all day? No.

Speaker 1 But the governor was like, it's time to take a long, hard look at our butterloe.

Speaker 4 In 1967, the color ban was removed, but a tax of five and a one-quarter cents was kept to end.

Speaker 4 And then in 1973, that it didn't have much of an effect on farmers. The sky didn't fall.
Everything just kind of went on as it was.

Speaker 4 To this day, Wisconsin, in Wisconsin, restaurants are still forbidden from serving margarine instead of butter unless a customer specifically requests it.

Speaker 1 And I wouldn't if I were you.

Speaker 4 Well, congratulations. You're out of your fucking minds.

Speaker 1 You're out of your mind. Oh, sir.
Yeah, you are. I'm the right one.
No, you're not. All fucking weirdos.
No.

Speaker 1 Get out of here.

Speaker 1 Go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 Boy,

Speaker 1 that is a

Speaker 1 most Wisconsin story we've ever done here

Speaker 1 by far.

Speaker 1 And I feel in the room, there's still a lot of people who are like, screw you, Dave.

Speaker 1 Your take is wrong.

Speaker 4 You were right on that one, and Marjorie should not fucking be.

Speaker 1 It's this fucking asshole's problem.

Speaker 4 He did it. Well, his wife did it, really.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 4 He was right. To him, he thought it was butter.

Speaker 1 I hadn't even really made that connection necessarily.

Speaker 1 I thought she was like mixing it into stuff. I didn't even think it was like, may I have another spoonful? She was like, Jesus Christ, Gordon.

Speaker 1 He was only, he was eating margarine thinking it was butter.

Speaker 1 Well, that's good.

Speaker 1 Butter is delicious.

Speaker 1 How good does it slip down?

Speaker 1 It slips down great, Gordon.

Speaker 1 My sweet prince,

Speaker 1 My buttery, buttery king.

Speaker 1 May you live five lifetimes. He passed away already.
Oh, fuck. Shit.
All right, well, whatever.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but the guys who were on the border for like 10 years were just like buying houses and putting in pools. Well, that, but that's like all of a sudden it just one day was gone.

Speaker 1 They're like, no, but it's like those trend hitters.

Speaker 1 It's like the guy who opens a vape shop right away. You're like, motherfucker, bingo.

Speaker 1 You know, he's like, I got 10 years of this shit.

Speaker 4 The sources, the Oleo Wars, Wisconsin fight over the demon spread by Gary Stray.

Speaker 1 Demon spread is so good.

Speaker 1 How the fuck is there not a margarine called demon spread? Right?

Speaker 1 Like the day

Speaker 1 it red. The day.

Speaker 4 The day they made it legal in Wisconsin, I'm selling red demon spread butter.

Speaker 1 Red demon spread Butter. Yeah, Margarine, yeah.

Speaker 4 Sentient Media, History of Margarine, Plant-Based Battles, National Geographic, The Butter Wars when Margarine Was Pink.

Speaker 1 That guy was like, someday some guy's going to read this book.

Speaker 1 It's going to happen.

Speaker 4 Inverse.com, America's Forgotten War on Margarine, The Telegraph Courier, and the Coshocton Tribune.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 well, well,

Speaker 1 I guess the only thing to say is RIP to the greatest senator in this state's history. Yep.

Speaker 4 Yep.

Speaker 1 We miss you, Gordon Rosley. We miss you, Gordon.
Butter forever, buddy. We hope you're up in those buttery clouds right now.

Speaker 1 Weighing them down, and you still have no idea that your wife was Marjorie poisoning you for half your fucking life.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys so much. Appreciate it.
Thank you.

Speaker 9 Hey, dollop fans. I know you love the dollop.
You love listening to the dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop?

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Speaker 9 And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them.

Speaker 9 We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the Rube.

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