Guide To... S2E1 "Society" (November 3, 2009)

This is Audible.

Hello, I'm Ricky Gervais.

To some, society is a cage trapping and oppressing free-thinking individuals.

But to others, society offers essential structure and regulation, preventing anarchy in the worst excesses of human behaviour.

Each society has its own codes of conduct, ways of doing things.

But who decides these social norms, and how are they governed?

From the formative democracy of ancient Greece to the communist totalitarianism of Soviet Russia, history has shown us that there are as many forms of society as there are people to populate them.

To discuss society and our place within it, I'm joined by Stephen Merchant, award-winning writer and graduate of the University of Warwick.

Hello, and Carl Pilkinton.

You know the score, little round-headed twat.

In ancient Greece, every year 500 people would be selected from that Grecian society and they would have to sit there that year and they would propose laws and everyone else would vote on them.

And that was their obligation.

They were obliged to be one of that 500, if they bid our jury duty, called up, and then they had to propose their ideas and then the rest of the citizens voted on it.

Now, if you're in that position, you're called up, what rules and laws are you instigating?

You might go, right,

I want an egalitarian society.

I want freedom for people.

I don't want slavery.

I don't want any sort of oppression.

Would that be high on your list?

Well, you could say, you know, when I

worked at Cordon Bleu, there were times when I thought being treated like a slave here.

You weren't though, because you were being paid and you were free.

Different rules.

What do you mean?

I wasn't free.

I was on like from nine till seven.

Yeah, we had the choice to leave the job.

Slaves didn't have a choice to leave.

They wouldn't go.

They go.

They didn't have any choice.

Actually, Mr.

Jackson,

I'm thinking of leaving your employment.

No, because the money's no good.

And I don't like the twins.

They didn't have that choice.

I didn't have a choice.

The only other choice was Tesco, and they'd already turned me down.

No,

that's not

a choice.

That wasn't the lack of choice given to most of the people.

But the slaves who built the pyramids, that wasn't an option for them.

It wasn't like they could go well, I can get a better gig on the Sphinx.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm just saying.

No, you're not saying anything.

You're saying

absolutely drifting.

Here's a little Greek proverb for you.

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

What isn't it?

That's amazing.

Can you say it again?

Say it again.

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Do you understand?

Yeah.

just saying

they're planting a seed, they grow a tree, but a tree's takes ages.

Yeah.

It takes a long time.

That old fella's not going to get any joy out of that.

Right.

But if he's lucky,

fella next door might have done the same years ago.

So it's all about sort of planting a seed, looking after each other.

That's great actually.

It's not I don't think it's d directly.

It's almost the point.

I think he means that future generations.

But yeah, if you s yeah, the if the next door neighbour had had done that, then yeah, that works as well.

But that's you seem to agree that that's a good point.

Do you agree that seems a good point to you?

But I'm sort of guessing he enjoyed gardening anyway.

Part of the enjoyment was in planting that seeds we seem to be.

It's the old metaphor problem again, isn't it?

It's not specifically about trees.

You know, you plant the tree, as you say, and you may never see the beauty or the benefit of that tree, but other people will.

But as a metaphor, what he enjoyed is the fact that he's added to society and human life, and he's got a legacy and all that.

But by the same time, when I went to Abiza, right, now there they have motorbikes, people flying around on them,

people don't wear helmets.

You might even get three people on a moped.

I saw a farmer with a goat in a basket.

They don't care.

They're whizzing around at high speeds.

A lot of deaths there.

Yeah.

And they'll have a lot of

those areas where someone's come off, been killed, people put flowers there.

Yeah.

And because that happens a lot, it's a lovely green island.

Now, here,

we're saying,

you're saying that all the deaths make it nice because

there's loads of flowers in it.

So, with death comes beauty.

So, that's another metaphor.

You can have that one.

That was one of the most tortuous things I've ever that was extraordinary.

But look, look at London.

That was extraordinary, Carl.

Right, Carl.

Carl.

Well, look at London there.

Let me finish my point.

Let me finish this point.

Let me finish my point.

I'm intrigued.

Right, London, councillor with his clipboard.

Need a speed bumper.

I saw someone doing 35.

Put some traffic lights there and a pedestrian crossing, Pelican crossing there as well, and a speed camera.

Right.

Horrible and grey.

No flowers.

But you still see flowers left behind where people have died in terrible accidents.

They're not medical.

They're stuck to a lamppost with elastic band round them.

They don't look nice.

He's not the quality of flowers.

Yeah, but the point is that he is the one that's shown.

Some 15-year-old got run down and you're disappointed at the quality of the flowers.

Look at this, Stuzan.

Fellow lost his head here.

Geraniums?

Geraniums for fella lost his floods.

Boody head.

What the fuck?

That's the only thing that's going to be a lot of fun.

So we have to

encourage gun crime so that people will get shot in inner cities and then we can put flowers up and beautify the areas.

Well, but if an area is nicer to look in, nicer to be in, if it's nicer looking,

you don't get people speeding around like lunatics.

Because they go, I'm not in a rush, I'd quite like to slow down this morning.

So now what you're saying is because an area is grey and gloomy, people speed around to get out of it.

In the course of doing that, they knock people down, but then flowers are put up, which then makes the area beautiful, thus stopping people driving around at speeds so death no longer occurs.

Well, they keep out to get out of their cars to get down flowers and they get knocked down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, just sometimes people have to die, don't they?

There was a fellow outside our house who went a lamppost, he had a helmet on, but his head came off.

He made me laugh at a man's head coming off because the way he said it.

He had a.

Oh, God, there's a man.

There's a guy in our house.

He had a lamppost.

He had a helmet on, but his head had come off.

So you're saying that because in that one instance the helmet did not save his life?

His head was in great condition.

It's just not attached to his body.

And that's what I'm saying to you.

Sometimes people have to die.

How far do you take all this stuff of

safety gear and slowing down and wear bright clothes at night?

And it's just too much.

Very important point, you see.

We give people crash helmets, we give them,

seat belts, we make them wear that, right?

Do you think that's right for a start?

Do you think someone should be made to wear a crash helmet?

They're only hurting themselves.

Crash helmet.

I don't think you should get fined for not wearing one.

But then if you come off a motorbike and you hurt your head and you didn't have a helmet on, then you can't sort of go, well, they should have had speed bumps here.

You don't realise we're going too far.

Don't think we're not just protecting him.

He could be a father with two kids.

So you're going, oh, let him if he doesn't want to wear a crash helmet, let him get brain damage.

Is that what you're saying?

I'm just saying, we're over the top in this country.

No, but

if you're saying, no, if he doesn't want to wear a crush helmet, let him not wear a crush helmet.

He doesn't wear a crash helmet.

He comes off his bike, he smacks his head in.

He's a vegetable.

He's like, ah,

sitting at home,

and yet the two little kids come to you.

You're in charge, don't forget.

We've put you in charge of society here.

And they come to you.

Two little kids, they go,

President Pilkington,

why did you let my daddy wear the not wear the crush helmet?

I didn't.

We paid uh, we put leaflets through the door.

We had adverts on the teleson showing.

Yeah, but but why dad's fault?

But why wasn't it compulsory?

Because he wanted it's not.

It's not the world we live in, Sonny.

Yeah, it is.

Now I haven't got a daddy helmet.

Has he got an helmet at all?

Have you seen that helmet knocking about?

No, he's just a vegetable now.

Yeah, he didn't want to wear a crush helmet, but why didn't you make him wear a crush helmet?

It wasn't just him, it was us.

Why did you turn my daddy into a vegetable?

Where's your mum?

Mum left when he kept going on about not wearing a crush helmet.

I put you in a home.

I just think, you see, this is the problem.

Everyone's looking for someone to blame.

Yes, but this is interesting though, because you were particularly callous to that little four-year-old boy, who seemed so sweet and adorable.

Yeah.

But why wasn't he giving this stick to his dad?

Well, his dad has a major vegetable.

He's dead, yeah.

His good is dead to him.

His dad went within the law.

It was not the law to wear a crash helmet anymore because you said, forget it, I don't want an anti-state.

I don't want if you wear a crash helmet or not, he wasn't a responsible parent.

He hadn't thought it through.

But this is your job.

Some people aren't responsible.

Society keeps them on track.

This was your, you were in charge.

You should have made him wear a crash helmet.

He had two kids.

We've heard from one of the kids.

What's the other one's actually?

Is he younger than he is?

He's a bit younger.

He's even younger still.

President Pilkington.

Brother's crying now because you shouted at him.

I wish you'd have made my daddy wear a crash helmet.

Why didn't you make your daddy wear a crash helmet?

No, he won't listen to me because I'm not in charge of that.

He didn't listen to me.

Yeah, but.

It seems like a bit of a numb-nut, to be honest.

No, he did listen to you.

Because you made a new rule saying people don't have to wear crash helmets.

Right.

And he listened to you.

Did he pop shoes on in the morning when he went out?

Or did he need to be here to tell him to do that as well?

Oh, so he has got some common sense then.

Well, he's lovely.

All right, interesting.

So he can be bothered with his training.

Where can we be bothered with Elm?

I haven't got a daddy.

Jesus.

Wow, you are cruel to this kid.

It's just,

all I'm saying is, there should be a leaflet.

I don't even know how he got in number 10, this little kid.

The thing is.

So he's got in.

You should have at least a courtesy to listen to his point.

Forget all, I'm sick and tired of having adverts on the telly.

Don't smoke.

Wear an helmet.

Slow down.

Watch your kidneys.

Look after your liver.

No, I don't know why.

Why can't they just put a leaflet through saying, hello everyone, use your common sense?

That's all I'm asking.

Big

Because some people don't have common sense.

Some people are fucking idiots,

it's not my fault.

Yeah, that's why there is a government.

If we let people, well, they'd be fucking idiots.

They'd be eating turkey Twizzlers and fucking watching Big Brother and X Factor doing.

And then letting their kids run riot in the street.

Some families do just eat turkey Twizzlers.

There is little knob-eds on bikes playing out until God knows what

so it's happening anyway.

Yeah, but that's no argument, is it?

It's happening anyway.

That's no argument, Carl.

It's what we've talked about here.

Social responsibility.

The reason people get into politics is because they feel it's their obligation to change those things.

This is your approach.

I wash my hands of the whole affair.

Yeah, I don't know that the people who don't wear a helmet sort of to do themselves in, and that's cleared them off.

That's one problem sorted.

So, you think you're being Darwinian?

You're thinking survival of the fittest, the idiots will suit, but they don't.

Because they're not just the victims, the dead person isn't the victim.

It's that, you know,

a very good example is: okay, we've talked about it before.

You know, people who smoke know that it's dangerous.

We know now that smoking gives you cancer.

But why is that still legal?

And yet people know that and they still smoke.

Fat people know that they're going to get out of breath and clammy.

And yet they still eat more.

They get depressed, they're eating more.

They know that they're going to be constipated for a year and a half, but they're still shoving in chocolate cake instead of carrots.

Well, because that's what I'm saying.

Why don't we stop them?

Why don't we stop fat people eating?

If you've got a smackhead and you really love him, you intervene, you grab him, you put it in a cupboard, you go, you're not coming out.

He goes mad for about a year, then he thanks you for it.

So block fat people in a cupboard.

And just put parrots under the door.

What?

The thing is, there's got to be some responsibility.

You can't grab Ricky, there's a cupboard over there.

You've got to take some responsibility, haven't you?

Now, if it's your own fat kid, stick him in your cupboard.

But what I'm saying is, as a counsellor, I'm not spending taxpayers' money on cupboards to put the fat kid in.

So, back at the Chosen 500 in ancient Greece, right?

You're one of them.

What other things we do?

I like that saying, the one about

do to others as you'd like to be treated yourself.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Pop that on a leaflet, pop it through the door.

But you seem to be doing a lot of leafleting.

That seems to be your entire governance, it seems to be guided by popping leaflets through doors.

And I get a lot of leaflets, so I presume the rest of the country does, and it's not always working.

So maybe sometimes you've got to instigate something a little bit more strong-minded than fucking leaflets, my friend.

Maybe you've got to make a couple of laws because every individual can go, how would I want to be treated?

Well, I'd want someone to throw cake at me.

Yeah, because I'm a greedy bass.

I would want someone to steal my telly.

I'd probably start on the way you look.

Right, go on.

I'd just say, right, you know, make an effort, tidy up your house, and I'd have some sort of.

I'm poor.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

You can still tidy up.

Can we get better houses then?

Well, look after the one that we've let you.

Get rid of that old mattress that's in your garden there,

clean the windows, and then we might give you a nicer one.

At the moment, you don't deserve anything nicer, and that's what I'm saying.

You've got to be honest with these people, wake them up, I like that.

Sure, you've got to be honest with them, you've got to wake them up through heavy leaf litting stuff.

But do you see the problem with some of what you're saying, Carl, is that it's very hard to

enforce that in law because it seems unjust and unfair.

You can't really start legislating against people's looks or whether they want.

I mean, you have to keep your house tidy I mean who decides how tidy it has to be?

It's the tidy police?

I mean that's a strange well hold on though.

I like wearing

these denims.

It expresses who I am and I like wearing a beard because I just think it's natural.

I don't like really like shaving and yeah I like this sort of smell.

I like this smell of BO.

That's who I am as a person.

So how can you impose that on me just to be part of the society?

Who are you to infringe my rights as an individual?

What do you want out of life?

Well no I I think I just like to say I don't want to conform.

I don't want to just shave and wear a suit.

I keep myself to myself, and I like to just grow a beard and

eat porridge with my hands.

I'm not hurting anyone, so

I don't know why I have to conform to that society.

There's nothing I can do for you.

You're

wasting my time.

Although I do feel ill,

I need to go to the hospital now.

So

I'm gonna go to the hospital now, if that's right.

Is there care for me?

What's up with you?

I've got diseases from eating with my hands, and there's things growing in my beard.

So we clean that up for me now.

No, because it's all been brought on yourself.

Well, no, but that's irrelevant.

A lot of people bring things on themselves, but you can't just ignore them because

it's about society that's not.

Well, how do they learn then?

But no one being punished for being stupid.

How do they learn then?

Well,

I've got to worry about you.

I've got proper ill people.

You had a kid whinging at me this morning because his dad was a Hmong.

Obviously, in China, you can only have one child, can't you?

Is that something you feel we should bring in here?

Yeah, I think we've got to,

I don't know about one kid.

I just sort of concentrate on who can have a kid as opposed to, you know, if someone's got a load of money and they're good at looking after kids, let Madonna have as many as she wants.

But if it's someone who's

social engineering, you want to be able to do that.

Yeah, but then, but hold on then.

What use are they then?

If you're bringing them into a poor family, what's the point?

What good is that for anyone?

It's not good for the people who've had the kids and the people who are.

So who's deciding who's allowed to have how many kids?

Are you deciding?

I was brought into the poor family, wasn't I?

What?

I was brought into a poor family.

No, no,

I'm talking really poor.

So, third world?

No.

Well, poorer than that.

Poor than no money at all.

No, somewhere in the middle again.

You've gone too far the other way.

Why is it always got to go the other way?

Poor more.

I just mean like the people who I've told you about on the estate sometimes who had that one who chased cars and stuff.

He wasn't happy.

They didn't care if he was there or not.

What's the point?

So, hang on.

So, let's imagine that Ricky and I are husband and wife.

We've come in, right?

What's your question to us to establish whether we were allowed to have a couple of kids?

Hello.

Hello.

Thanks for coming.

Well, me and my husband,

we can't have children

because he's got no sperm at all.

He had one sperm and it was ridiculous.

It was awful.

It just came out like a dead anchovy.

Right, it was.

You were meant to have 300 million tiny ones, and he had one big one.

It was horrible.

I had to pull it out.

It was like a leech.

And uh and also, I've uh it was no p I haven't I haven't got a vagina, so it was no passion.

It's smooth down there, like an action man.

Yeah, it was just that I don't know but we we love children and um uh

we wondered if we we could um have a child.

What do you do for the living?

What do you do?

What's your work?

Uh I'm a rapist.

Right.

And I dispose of the bodies.

Right.

Well, fill out this form.

I should have clarified it a rapist murderer.

Fill out the form.

He does it in the wrong order as well, I must say.

So no, number of times I've disposed of the bodies that I hadn't made that one.

Just wondered what else you need to know about us.

Because even though I don't know.

That was our little joke, by the way.

He doesn't make it.

I work in an office.

He works in an office

in the town.

I'm a housewife.

I'm a housewife.

I'm making a little nest for when

we adopt a little

child.

We don't earn a great deal of money, but we're good parents.

We think parents are.

What's that based on?

Well, are we good people?

You know, I mean, aside from a few naughty jokes.

We're God-fearing people.

We believe that

God is watching all of us, and we believe in the Old Testament.

And sometimes he tells us to kill and rape.

Yeah, sometimes he does, yeah.

Particularly

we've stoned a couple of homosexuals this week alone.

We're joking again.

We're joking again.

We don't believe in God.

We're from an atheist and believe that our time on earth is all we have, and then when we die, we become worms meat.

We've already painted the back bedroom, that's ready for the little child.

We've painted it black

because

we want our child to be a Satanist.

Joking again, joking again,

we want him to be an accountant.

Gay accountant.

Someone say the same thing, only jokingly.

I think there's too much in society where people are pressured to be heterosexual, so we're going to try and make ours a homosexual.

So we don't care whether you get a homosexual or a heterosexual, but I tell you, by the time he's 14, he will be as queer as the SS Mates.

Right, so you've filled out the form.

Fill out the form.

Yeah, we'll pop that in, get it processed.

Right.

Okay, but what kind of questions are you going to ask us?

None, none, really.

No, it's not.

Just my job.

You're happy.

Just my job to pass the forms on.

Past the interview.

Because that's the sort of world we're living now.

Oh, God.

We don't want a child.

We don't want a child, actually.

But do you know where we could buy a knife?

We talked about the little fella planting a tree that he would never sit under.

He's giving that to

the next generation.

Okay?

Now, big discussion about donor cards.

Of course.

There's no reason not to give your kidneys away after your death to all your organs.

They're no good to you and you'll be happy in life.

It's it's it's perverse to me that you wouldn't want to donate your body to a a worthy cause after your death.

Medical research, whatever.

Um you agree with that, don't you?

Um

well you know how I feel about it a little bit.

I don't like the idea of certain bits.

Why not?

What does it matter?

Just because there's certain bits that are really personal to you aren't they?

No, there's not what what what bit is more personal than another bit to you?

Well look like I've said my eyes.

They're my eyes.

They see stuff I like.

Yeah.

Now what happens if someone else has them and and they start looking at stuff I don't like?

I don't like the idea of that.

But that's ridiculous because your eyes are they're just bits of tissue.

Then they haven't got your body.

Well we don't we don't know because they've found out there's something called a cellular something or other that I've told you about about the person who had some sort of operation ended up liking yellow biscuits.

I've told you about it.

Yeah but that's bollocks.

I've got to tell you this but I dismissed it as bollocks immediately.

Not just because you said it, because it was intrinsically bollocks.

No.

But it could work the other way anyway, where the person who has my eyes starts looking at ants and insects and stuff.

But it's all bollocks.

Again, this is all bollocks.

You've got none of your memories, none of your thoughts, none of your reasoning, nothing of you, none of your personality.

They're just a collection of cells that now have light going through them and making this new person see.

They're a lens.

They're a lens.

That's all they are.

So there's no reason why,

you know, this was a crazy thing, isn't it?

When people started saying that they wanted their organs to go to a particular race of person, and obviously, that's illegal.

Also, it shouldn't be the choice, really.

I think you should have that opting out that you have to say that you don't want your organs given after.

And if you die, then they assume that those organs are up for grabs because there's a shortage.

So, what do you think of that?

Like I say,

they can have certain bits and not have any eyes.

I think eyes.

Can they have the cock and balls?

I prefer it if they didn't.

You're saying, No, no one's going to have my eyes or my cock and bollocks.

What if the tables were turned?

Yeah.

What if someone said, Carl, you've lost your cock and bollocks in a terrible accident?

Sorry, we put some flowers at the scene of it, it's brighten the hairy up.

But

we've found a donor who's happy to give you his cock and bollocks.

He's dead, but his cock and bollocks we kept on.

I'd accept them.

They're absolutely lovely match.

Better than yours.

Yeah.

Bigger, younger.

There you go, man.

I love them.

You'd have somebody else.

So you would, so you'd have someone else's cock and bollocks, but then you wouldn't donate yours to someone else.

What about this?

What if you discovered later, right, that the person who donated the cock and bollocks, right, was a sex pervert?

Was a homosexual sex pervert.

I don't think, though, that I'd bother looking into the history of these cock and bollocks.

It's not like, you know.

Except the willy-nilly, but what if you just found out by chance?

What was his name?

That was his name, Willy-Nilly.

That was his stage name.

And come on in

By chance.

How do I find out by chance?

What's the scenario?

They say, well, the doctor goes.

I should tell you.

I know you believe in a load of shit about yellow biscuits and bollocks like that.

So I'll just tell you, in case anything goes weird, this was a sex favourite's cock and bollocks.

So

if you find that you're sticking these through letterboxes, don't worry, it's not your fault.

It's where they want it to have gone.

Would it concern you if you accepted the cock and bollocks that had a pass like that?

Yeah, because the problem is, it wouldn't be that bad if I had his eyes.

Why?

Because then I'm seeing what he wants to see.

That doesn't make any sense at all,

unfortunately.

It makes no sense at all.

The match is wrong.

The eyes don't go with the cock and bollocks anymore.

Why the eyes don't?

So something's going to lose out here.

Either the cock and bollocks, they're not going to get what they want anymore, or the eyes are going to be upset.

So are you scared of the idea, to go back to your yellow biscuit analogy, that the the cock and box you inherit, that whatever the previous owner did with them lives on.

That scares you, doesn't it?

Okay, there's one final scenario here, Carl.

Okay.

You've uh you haven't opted out, so your your organs go to where they like.

Now, unbeknownst to you,

uh there's a big waiting list as a thing.

They've got they've got all your details and you said, Yeah, whatever, I don't wanna know.

You wouldn't wanna know, would you, after you die, where it goes?

You say, I don't because you said, You don't wanna to know.

If you don't know, you have a lovely life.

When you die, they can go anywhere.

They can do what they will.

Okay,

now, unbeknownst to you, they have got it down.

They've donated your ass

for use

to a gay rapist with AIDS.

Okay,

so

they are saving a life there.

So when you die, they go, right,

it's still warm.

Get that gay rapist with AIDS round here, because that's going to stop him raping someone, give them AIDS.

He comes round, he's straight up there.

He's shagging you, right?

You're basically saving a life, right?

Boy, let him do that, right?

Sorry, sorry, I'm confused here.

What?

Why is the gay rapist with AIDS got the arse?

What's the array?

No, he's shaggy.

No, he's still connected to Carl.

They've donated the arse.

So when Carl dies, the doctors go, right, we're going to stop a terrible thing here.

So the gay rapist can shag the arsenal.

Yeah, he shags going around.

He shags Carl, gets out of his system, and goes, Phew, that stopped me.

Right?

Okay.

Right, so.

So it's just Carl's disembodied arse on the no, no, no, it's the whole, it's the whole Carl.

So Carl could get struggling, he's having a heart attack.

They go, free,

clear.

They go, no, we've lost him.

At 10.01, they go, oh, he's a arse donor.

And they go, okay, get this.

Where's the nearest gay rapist with AIDS live?

Next door.

Get him round it.

They go, okay, look.

The gay rapist turned around and goes, where is he?

Right?

He goes, there he is, right?

So Carl is face down.

Now they turn him around, they go, there's the arse, you've got 10 minutes, then we've got a better end.

I'm surprised you didn't know this guy was living next door.

So the gay rapist gets on top.

He goes, wow, this is lovely, right?

He's loving it.

He's shagging you up.

Right.

Now, this is the weird thing.

The doctors next door, they go, Okay, the gay rapist will be finished soon,

and then we have to bury him.

But we should inform his next to kin.

They go, Oh, it's Suzanne.

They go, Your husband's dead is avatar.

She goes, Oh my god, you'll come round and just identify the body.

I'd leave it a couple of minutes, but then

come round.

She goes, Oh, God, I'll be right there.

So, Suzanne's on her way.

The gay rapist, right?

He's pummelling you away, right?

But

you will not believe this.

Oh my god.

The movement and the way he's jagging you, right, has

started your heart.

This is a stroke of amazing good fortune.

So you go,

he goes, ah, right?

He, right, has a heart attack.

Right?

And he flops down on you.

He's just like Edbuts the back of your head.

So now you're both naked.

This gay rapist is up your ass.

He's dead.

Right?

The shock is a...

You go, fuck me, how can I get out of this?

right?

You wriggle, you fall onto the floor.

So now he's on the bottom, face up, you're on top of him, he's still in you.

His cock is up your ass, you're sat on him, wriggling.

Suzanne walks in, goes, Carl, what the fuck are you doing?

She's heard about me being dead, and she goes, she's come to the bottom of the bush.

Yeah, yeah, she goes into you, and they go, he's in there.

And she goes, he's not dead, I can see him.

They go, oh, because he's been the terrible one.

She bursts in.

There you are, on top of him, wriggling to try and get his knob out of your ass.

You're sitting on a man who's dead.

What do you say?

I'd just say we got a John Booper.

Very hard, isn't it, to imagine yourself at a different period in time and how you would have reacted.

Now, if you think about America in the 1950s, black people still very much second-class citizens, you've obviously heard of the famous Rosa Parks incident, in which

she was obliged to move on the bus from where she was sat to somewhere else, and she chose not to, and she was arrested for it, and became very much a sort of figurehead of the civil rights movement.

Had you been travelling on that bus?

What would you do?

And am I far from where I'm getting off?

Yeah, you

So, once again, you can't just nip out at the next stop so you can wash your hands of the whole affair.

No, you're on that bus, you've still got a number of stops.

You live further away than Rosa does because you've got a lovely big house, whereas obviously she doesn't have a lovely place, she can't afford it.

So, you've got to stay on that bus.

You've seen this now.

You've seen this bus driver demanding that she gets up, gives up that seat.

Maybe she's given up that seat for you.

Maybe you've got on that bus as a privileged white man and she refuses to get up on your behalf.

I'd probably go, it's alright, I'm standing, I'm alright.

But why would you say that?

Because you're thinking of the modern-day car, you're not thinking of the man from the 1950s.

What the thing is, well,

we don't have to go back in time.

We can go to a country now where you'd see an injustice, where you were outnumbered by the law of the land.

What if Suzanne wasn't allowed to sit with you on buses?

What if now a law came in that women were second-class citizens and she can't come with you?

Wouldn't Wouldn't you go, no, fuck that, she's sitting with me?

I'd say we're only going around the block.

We've been to the shopping centre.

We'll be home in 15 minutes.

Can you take that bag with you?

Because there's no one sat next to you, Daniel.

I'm a bit crammed in up here.

There's more blokes on the bus.

I'll see you in a minute.

It's not a big issue.

I've done it on the train.

Where I've booked tickets and they've ended up being different tickets.

And I'll go, I'll see you in an hour and a half.

I've got an iPod.

But it's a good one.

So you went first class and she was a little bit more than a hundred.

But that's luck.

That's luck.

That's circumstance.

One is policy.

Surely you can can do the difference between a principle and a bit of luck.

Uh but it's what you get used to at the end of the day.

I mean I'm not walking past and slapping them on the back of the head.

I'm getting on and it's just that's where they sit, that's where we sit.

Like men and women si going into a separate toilet.

Carl, let's put this to you.

I mean obviously if this is too much for your head to you're on a bus, right, and there's a few white people and they're I'm the driver and they're being racist to uh a black kid.

Right, I'd go if I'm driving, I'd go,

lads, stop that, will you?

If you're going to be racist, can you get off at the next door and do that?

Well, you know,

we've all had a tough day.

It's the end of the day.

We just all want to go home.

We've all been working.

He's not in your way.

He's sat in his own seat.

Sit back.

Calm down.

Had enough.

But what if they said, no, we usually sit there, we want that seat.

Would you think the black kid's a troublemaker?

Would you go, come on, just move, mate?

It'd be peaceful.

I'd go, what do you want to do?

Do you want to move so this is calmed down?

No, no, no, you shouldn't say that.

He doesn't he he doesn't matter if he wants to move or not.

It's his right

to move.

Do what you want, man.

If you want to stay there and fight your own no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he wants to stay there.

Don't you ha surely you come surely you want to be on the side of right.

I'm just doing my job here.

I'm driving a bus.

I'm driving a bus for thirty quid a week here.

I'm getting a load of grief off some people at the end of the day.

But think bigger than the bus rule.

It's not just a bus thing.

Just imagine that you're not a bus driver.

But that's what we're talking about here.

But yes, but Ricky's trying to make a point.

It's an analogy again.

It's about you taking some kind of responsibility that could put you in harm's way.

That could mean that you've got to stand up to danger or to bullies.

If someone's attacking Suzanne, she goes, Carl, help.

You go, no, no, I could get it because I know the full story here.

But this is what I'm saying about Rosie's story here.

Rosie, what's it?

I'm just saying, she sat on the bus.

How did it work?

She got on the bus, she sat where she wanted.

No, I'll tell you how it worked.

The middle section of the bus, black people could sit there, but it was up to the driver's discretion to change where black people could sit depending on the number of white passengers that got on.

So she sat in a seat.

So more and more white passengers get on.

So this bloke decides: well, no, actually, this is no longer the black section.

There is no black section because there's enough white people.

You've got to stand up.

And she decided, no, I'm not going to get up.

It's my right to be able to sit on this bus as a person, as a human being, not whether or black or white.

And that was why she got arrested.

Well, she lost in the end, didn't she?

What do you mean she lost in the end?

There's a black president.

Yeah, but it's not because of her getting on a bus.

That's just because times change.

Yes, in a way it is.

I don't know.

Because she became a spearhead of the civil rights movement that was spearheaded by Martin Luther King.

All those little things go towards change.

On a different bus, on a different day, it might not have turned out that way.

That's what I'm saying.

It might have been, you know, someone else who goes, get off,

who's been in a right mood, might have been in the pub all afternoon, and she's there going, I'm not moving, and he's he's fed up, he's up to her with it.

So if you're pissed out of there, she's pissed out now.

No, the person in the room next to her might have even been a black bloke who's been working hard and he's like, I don't want this.

But it's interesting you say that.

The bus pulls over, the police are called in.

But you say this, it's interesting you say that because in the Rosa Parks incident, there were a number of other black men, all of whom did stand up.

I think five of them were there, and four of them stood up, and she stayed, sat down.

So there were four people there who did choose the easier route, the easier life, and she stayed, sat down, and she's the one who went to prison and she's the one who's remembered because of what she did on that day.

It's difficult, isn't it?

If I was on there, I'd weigh her up.

You know, is this woman doing this as like a good cause, or is she just a trouble-causer?

Because she just seemed like, you know,

I'll do what I want.

Now, that's fine.

You'll always get people who do what they want, and they do change their little rules along the way.

But I bet when she was doing it, it wasn't like a big stand-up, this is the day I'm going to do it.

It just happened to.

She was fed up that day, she didn't want to get up.

Lazy.

She might just go around law-breaking all the time.

And she's remembered now because she'd made a change about bus seats.

But when she got up that morning, did she say I'm going to do that?

Or has she been fly-tipping before she got on the bus?

Which is what I'm saying.

Is she just a, you know.

No, she's not a troublemaker.

She's someone who already had a burgeoning interest in the civil rights.

I mean, I really thought the Rosa Parks incident was pretty cut and dry.

The fact that Carl's managed to find an over you is extraordinary.

I love it.

Tell me something else about Rosie Park.

Oh, for God's sake, I don't know what she's got to do to win you round, Carl.

I didn't realise it would be this difficult.

Carl,

Thomas Jefferson, you know who he is,

once observed, a nation as a society forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society.

But Jefferson's fellow countrymen, as you know, the American writer and intellectual Randolph Bourne, noted some years later: society is one vast conspiracy for carving one into a kind of statue it likes and then placing it in the most convenient niche it has.

So one saying, no, this is why we're moral people.

The society is great for us.

It turns us into responsible people, okay?

And we should love that society and make sure it's perpetuated.

But Bourne said no, no, it's just a way to mould someone into what it likes and put it into a little box so it can't hurt anyone.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah, that's not again, it's no, which are you?

Both of them are right.

Both of them are right, but they're contradictory.

They're both opinions.

They're certainly opinions.

But you, I mean, I don't know why I am the way I am.

It just happens, doesn't it?

You know, I don't like killing a fly.

No one would stop me if they did.

But there's something in me that goes, Don't do that.

Right, so this is a very important theory because you're basically saying well, you could be saying one of two things.

You could be saying that goodness is innate, not likely, but

or he could be saying that

there's a morality that transcends rules and society pressure.

Whether or something's legal or not doesn't mean that you have to do it because it's legal, and it doesn't mean you don't yeah?

Is that the one you meant?

That's what I meant.

There was a bit of trouble in our yard the other day

between

a wasp and a cricket.

Now, the thing is, is there any point to this at all, or are you just going to tell us you saw it?

Are you going to extrapolate some analogy from this?

I think so.

Okay, yeah, let's see.

Let's see, let's see.

So, there's a wasp.

So,

I'm going to go ahead and do that.

As you said, it was kicking off.

So you're looking at your window.

No, I'm I'm in the kitchen by a sink.

Yeah.

Washing it.

We've got a new sink.

We've got a dishwasher as well.

But I said, well, I'll use a sink.

We've paid for it.

Let's give it a go.

So you're like a Luddite threatened by the technology.

You're thinking your worth will be taken away.

Your reason

in the world will be taken away by the dishwasher.

So you're like, no, Suzanne, we've got a dishwasher, but I am going to carry on.

You're going to need me.

I want to show I'm needed.

I want to use it.

It's like I don't understand that if someone's got a really nice car but they have a chauffeur, drive it, it's yours.

Enjoy it, enjoy your car.

Well, I feel a gear change, but you don't drive.

I know.

Yeah, so that's alright.

But what I'm saying is, I've got a sink, I've got a dishwasher.

What am I doing?

If I put the dishwasher on, what am I going to do?

I'm just going to sit down and do nothing.

Probably.

Wash up then.

Do something useful.

I do a better job than the machine does.

Don't get rid of the machine altogether then.

No, because sometimes I might want to go for a walk or something.

Well, why don't you go for a walk all the time?

It's good for you.

I'd had a walk in the morning.

Anyway, so I'm washing all that.

That was all the prelude to the wasp crazy story.

It better be fucking good to top that.

His life's so complicated.

For a man who does nothing at all,

his life is so complicated.

No, because it's the same thing.

The kitchen's failing you for a while.

You're using a goose thing, the dishwasher's there, it's not doing anything, it's not even plugged in, it's pointless.

What's going on?

I'm washing up the few plates.

Right.

The kitchen door's open.

Right.

Suzanne says, Oh my god, look at that.

What?

There's like a wasp and a cricket having a wrestle.

I've never seen it before.

Right.

Wait, wait.

Are you sure this wasn't Mexican television?

And it actually was a sporting desktop.

Yeah.

So they're there wrestling.

And I was like, well, stop them then.

Stop it, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You don't interfere with fucking rows of parts.

Why are you interfering with a wasp and a cricket?

Because one, I didn't even know they they didn't get on, to be honest.

So, this is much bigger metaphor than black.

This is more important than apartheid and segregation team.

I didn't even know they didn't get on, to be honest.

Because

they were sort of wrestling.

I said, and my hands were wet, so I couldn't do anything.

I always do it with a fairy liquid.

Yeah, sure.

So, she's there.

I say,

separate them.

I did put

so she uses a tea towel, flicks them.

Flick.

Clever.

Good thinking.

The wasp goes its own way.

The cricket's sort of jumping about a bit.

But who was fighting it?

So I'm sort of saying that is really weird, because wasps are changing quicker than anything else that I keep my eye on.

Okay, well that's just your theory and it's not based anyway.

Well I told you a couple of years back I saw one eating chicken.

They shouldn't be doing it.

So anyway, so now they're causing trouble with a cricket.

Whoa, how do you know it was the wasp fault?

This is prejudice.

Why do you think it was the wasp fault?

What if the cricket would have started it?

What if the crickets got a society that go, we ate wasps, we ate their stripes.

We ate ate them.

If they come here, fight them.

If everyone comes down here, fight them.

How do you know it wasn't the cricket that started that?

Well, I suppose at that time I didn't, but since.

Oh, some more information.

Oh, okay.

Sorry.

So, anyway.

So I saw all that.

We broke it up.

The cricket was sort of shaking a bit.

Definitely not.

Definitely not.

It was shaking a little bit.

So I sort of prodded it, put a little leaf over it because it was a hot day.

Thought I'd put a leaf there so it doesn't get overheated.

I love

it.

Like it's Jenna Marathon.

It's got a little

Mars on the leaf.

Red on the leaf, and now it's just walking over the little metal.

So Suzanne, we, you know, we'd leave it for a bit.

Leave it in

half an hour, about left it for half an hour.

What did Suzanne want to do?

She wanted to interfere, did she?

What did she want to do?

Just sort of like.

No, she just sort of said, leave it, stop messing with it.

It's probably a little bit knocked out, a little bit stunned.

Sure, let's get on with our lives, she said.

So I put the leaf on it.

You've gotten too much very liquid.

Why don't we use a dishwasher?

It's just 400 quid.

You don't be bored can.

can't.

So we go off, and half an hour later, I get back in.

I'm going to go.

I said, I'm going to go on to the water.

Where'd you go?

Where'd you go?

Just for a walk.

But hold on, why did you put the dish in the dishwasher and go for a walk?

I don't understand.

So now you're.

So now, as a dishwasher sitting there bone idle, you're washing up when you could be walking, and then you're still there.

Well, it's a good job.

I didn't go for a walk, though, wouldn't it?

Because how would that have turned out?

That fight.

I don't know.

There would have just been a pull of bone on your back door.

So I've been out, back in, have a look.

Cricket's still there.

Noticed one of its legs gone.

Oh.

Don't know if the wasp did that or the tea towel flick.

Or it was already disabled, and that's why the wasp thought this is an easy one.

What if the wasp was helping it?

It wasn't, though, honestly.

It was such a commotion.

Because we're such friends and humans don't understand us, and anyone interfered.

We definitely don't understand this, right?

He's not an entomologist.

This is when I got the computer out.

Right.

Had a look.

And it's a,

what was it called?

I I can't remember.

What happened is the wasp

apparently does this a lot

and it stings them in the head, right?

Not this particular, if there wasn't a little profile of this particular wasp,

it's just an incident that's gender between uh wasps and crickets, right?

So it stung it in the head, and what happens is it's that whole thing that we've talked about before where it lays an egg.

Right.

So I was sort of having a look, seeing if I could see any sort of holes in its head,

And it just kept sort of moving its one leg, like, oh, I can't handle this.

It was sort of just moving its one leg quite slowly.

Like, it's just cutting it off.

It's lost one leg, you said?

Yeah, it's lost one.

Yeah, it's moving five legs slowly.

No, it's just it's one big one.

It's got one big leg.

One big leg at the back now.

It's normally got two that it uses to jump.

Oh, I see.

So uh, okay.

So it's now it's only got one, it's sort of like oh, it looks gross.

Is it our grasshopper if it's jump?

Is it our what colour was it?

Is it like sort of uh beige?

Oh, it's probably a cricket, yeah.

So, um,

so anyway, important.

So, you were worried that crickets aren't aware of the dangers of wasps.

You did a bit of leafletting amongst the cricket in King.

I just had a look online and saw that, oh, it's a popular thing that happens.

It's sort of like a bit of a mugging.

He said you can leave them for about half an hour, they normally come round and they don't know they've had an egg put in their head.

There's no way it said leave them for half an hour and they come round, they don't have a head, but there's no way it said.

Well, it said they normally stunned for about half an hour.

Have you had an egg put in your head?

Fucking ostrich egg, but it's coming out the top.

So, anyway, so I picked it up, I placed it under a little tree, I said it's in the shade again, no wasps can see it there, let's just leave it.

But you've just left that cricket to now die in agony when that maggot goes round his head and comes out of wasp and leaves the carcass.

Well, this is when Suzanne came up and said it wasn't moving.

I sorted it.

You sorted it.

You sorted it.

What do you want to say?

What do you mean?

Well, I said, what do you mean?

You sorted it.

She said, oh.

We proceeded.

Especially we don't tell you.

Sorry, sorry.

She said she sorted it.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Do you think that we're in the mafia and we're being wiretapped?

Say what happened.

No, well, she just said she sorted it.

And I said, what, sorted what?

Because I'd forgotten about it at that point.

I was painting.

She said the

cricket.

Right, what do you think she meant by sorted it?

Well, by the look on her face, the way she she said it, I've known her for long enough, so I know that she meant it's not good news.

Yeah, so what happened?

So, from that, I took for granted she means

I've stopped it being

no longer in misery.

So, what do you mean?

What?

What did she do?

She crushed his head

because she said it was misery.

Specifically, just the head, she just crushed the head with a stone,

she got a tiny head-shaped stone and squashed it because that's where all the action is, isn't it?

So, she said it was too cruel watching it, sort of shaking about with his one leg and stuff.

You had to kill it.

I imagine I had this vision that one day

Suzanne just having to say to his parents,

I've sorted it.

I've sorted it.

I had to point out his misery.

I just couldn't bear to see the twitching anymore.

And he didn't like to know, but I just took a rock.

Yeah, and just squashed its head.

What was in it?

There was nothing there.

Nothing in it.

It just caved in it.

Was there an egg in it from a

rock?

It was like, you know, when you get a blown egg and then you crush it, and it's there was nothing

in it at all.

I just think he seems happier.

I'm certainly happier.

I'm much happier because he's sort of

more sensible without the head.

Yeah, we're still happy together, but now we use the dishwasher instead of him washing it up.

I mean, when you got one, it costs more than a good.

What metaphor are you taking from this?

Just the way.

Yeah, so that's at the beginning

there was going to be a point you were going to extrapolate for this, like a fable.

So what did you learn from that?

Um

I thought I was doing right at the time.

And that's important, isn't it?

And is it objective or subjective?

You know, one person's evil is another person's good.

Some people think abortion is the worst thing you could do, others think

it's a a woman's right and it's a it's a kindness.

It's some people think that you should never kill under any circumstances.

Other people say that some killing is morally right.

Again,

should uh an action be judged on its intent or its result?

If someone said to you, oh, I thought I was doing a good thing,

but you know, they opened the windows and your cat fell out.

They thought they didn't even know you had a cat.

Did they knock it, though, or did it just jump out?

It just jumped out.

Well, I'd say it's not my fault.

Your cat staffed.

No.

It was hot in here.

I've opened the window.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not getting the blame for that.

No, that wasn't my point, was it?

That

if you open the window, right, and they come home and you go, oh my god, the cat's jumped out and killed itself.

You go, oh my god, I'm so sorry.

I opened the window because I went and let Samarian I was doing a good thing.

So did I know it jumped out?

No, no.

I'd probably say, are you sure they didn't do that before I got here this morning?

Did you have the window open?

Right.

I don't think I.

Looks like it's been there a while.

So it's a bad idea.

You instantly don't want to be culpable for your own actions.

I mean, it is your fault.

It wasn't me who did it.

It is your fault the cat's dead.

Yeah, it's an accident, but nevertheless, it's still your right.

Oh, it's definitely me, yeah, I'd say.

Yeah, it jumped out.

I opened the window because it was hot in here.

The cat jumped out, it's dead.

Let's go and get another one.

Right.

I wouldn't worry that much about a cat.

Right, but what if it was a baby?

Well, it's a bit awkward, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, I suppose it is.

Carl, I'd like to ask you if I may stop twiddling that.

Now, Now, this is interesting because you were fiddling with a bit of plastic there and it was annoying me.

And I know a lot of things annoy Ricky, very infuriating for him.

Social etiquette.

Now, that's a very.

That's not obviously inscribed by law.

These are just things which have built up in society.

So, for instance, it's impolite to sneeze and then shake someone's hand.

Or sneeze straight in their face and go, oh, sorry, I've got swine flu.

Now, those things are obviously good practice in terms of avoiding the spread of disease, so that makes sense.

But other things obviously.

Also, it's like to be disgusting.

If someone hasn't got a disease, I don't like to see someone sneeze on the pavement or sniff or scratch their ass.

So, social etiquette, I mean, how do you decide?

I mean, what prevents you from being truthful and honest at all times?

I don't know, there's something in you, and sometimes you can just pop it out, can't you?

I've been in a situation when I've said stuff and I've thought, why did I say that?

Cool.

But it's not always.

In the dentist, last time I went to the dentist, I've sat in the reception bit.

Big fat fat woman comes up the stairs, massive she was, had a right sweat on.

Right.

She gets there and

yeah, she was again, you know, I mean, she was friendly, dead friendly, but kind of like, you know, leggings on,

sort of, you know, shoes, but not on properly.

She was stood on the heel.

Yeah.

You know, like she couldn't be bothered.

Yeah.

It's like greasy air.

And she went up and she's been all happy and everything.

And I think think that's what annoyed me.

So when she sort of said, Oh, yeah, I've lost weight, she was talking to the woman behind the counter.

And she sort of said, Yeah, I find it really difficult, especially living where I live, and having to come down this high street because there's so many cake shops and everything.

And she sort of said, You know, today I've walked past.

Normally, I always have a coffee and a donut, but today, you know, I didn't have a coffee and a donut.

And I just said, Why was it shut?

I did, honestly.

Honest to God, on my mum's life.

I said, How is it shut?

She said, Oh, no, why did you button?

She wasn't talking about it.

Honestly, I know it's really, really weird.

It's really weird.

Did you have to show it across the waiting room already?

No, no, no.

It's a small waiting room.

You see, you've got the stairs, you go in, you've got about four chairs, and then this old desk.

And I get on with a woman behind the counter, and I always sit close to it.

And it was just me there, and I was talking to her about going to Corfu or something.

She comes in, sweating like some bison up the stairs, and she's there.

And because she was showing off, it was like, Well, you should have done it a long time ago.

I think she annoyed me that she wanted some sort of pat on a big, hefty, fat back

that she hadn't bothered having a donut that day.

Now, maybe it's the enemy that just came out because I remember saying it and actually getting home saying to Suzanne, Oh, I said this, and I didn't even think I'd

know what you mean though.

Sometimes you sometimes you want to go in with people and they're going, Oh, I need you want to put them down.

You want to go, I'm stocking out with you because you're going to go straight back to that and do this, that.

I know you've had a lot.

Just inject them in the head.

Absolutely pointless.

Get rid of it.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

But talking about social etiquette, I was in a

flying to Edinburgh and I was with Matt, my assistant, and

there was a bloke on a mobile phone across the way.

He's going, yeah, yeah, I'm just going to get on the plane now.

And he kept talking that loudly to people, right?

And it was fuming.

Then he stopped and made another call.

And I was giving him dirty looks, and Matt was going, no, sit down, sir.

And

he was going,

Aya, in the airport.

And I shouted, He's in the airport.

He didn't notice.

I was shouting over, I was fuming, fuming, and Matt was just getting so embarrassed.

But they don't see you though.

People were looking at me like I was the mental case, but it was so fucking loud.

And I moved through to another place.

But I wanted to get someone, I wanted to be policed.

I want to go, right?

There's a cunt over there swigging beer, thinks he's a fucking Gordon Gecko player, and he's not.

He's some cunt who's got his first mobile phone.

Right?

But what you know, I mean, yeah, that is that is infringing.

That's like passive smoking to me.

It annoys me when you hear these

awful middle-class parents talking to their kid loudly enough to let everyone know what their kid knows.

Do you know what I mean?

They bring up conversations because they're showing off about the kid.

Toby, what's that you were saying earlier about you preferred Beethoven to...

Right, okay, if that kid talks about Beethoven and Chopin, right?

Do you know what I mean, though?

It's like people showing off, thinking that the world is interested in everything they fucking say.

That thing about

everyone's got access, which is fine, but

it's those fat fucking morons on DocuSoapes that go, I speak as I fucking f think, you f useless fucking blob of shit.

Yes.

Have an education, research, think, discuss, then offer your opinion.

And stop stop your kids chewing on a fucking big ball of fat.

Your leg.

Got someone specific in mind there, Rick?

Well, that's about it.

Hope you enjoyed the Ricky Dervae's Guide to Society.

I think we've sorted everything out there, Steve.

Yeah, not many questions left unanswered.

No, that's a pretty in-depth analysis of what society is and and uh how to improve it I think think,

in many ways.

I say some of the big people are listening, Brown, Akara.

And they'll go, okay, what's Pilkington to say?

Keep out of it.

Unless it's an insect.

So it's goodbye from me, Ricky Gervais, Stephen Merchant.

Goodbye.

And from the little round-headed simian type thing we call Carl Pilkington.

The next audiobook in this series is the Ricky Gervais Guide to Law and Order, and that will be available from the 1st of December.

Easy date to remember, World AIDS Day.

I knew it wouldn't take off like Christmas.

Audible hopes you have enjoyed this programme.