Guide To... S1E1 "Medicine" (December 31, 2008)

Hello, I'm Ricky Gervais.

As the Canadian physician William Osler once said, the desire to take medicine is perhaps the greatest feature which distinguishes man from animals.

From keyhole surgery to stem cell research, modern medicine enables the 20th century man to play God.

But how did we get here?

What incremental advances through the ages gave birth to the medical wonders of today?

Here to discuss the history and practice of medicine, a Stephen Merchant, graduate from the University of Warwick, and now award-winning writer.

Thank you very much, indeed.

And Carl Pilkington, a man with no qualifications, very little education, but who is now known the world over as a shaven chimp with a head like a fucking orange.

Well, there is obviously so much to discuss, uh, Ricky.

I wonder,

in an effort just to provoke some uh initial thoughts, uh, if I can offer another quote from the great Carl Sagan,

who said, Um, advances in medicine and agriculture have saved vastly more lives than have been lost in all the wars in history.

So, quite a yeah, it just shows you shouldn't really worry about war.

What do you mean as well?

Not a big problem, is it?

Obviously, so that's a good point there, Carl.

War's not as bad as a lot of people make out.

What do you think, Carl?

Overrated?

Too much fuss about all.

Well, I don't know anyone who's died in a war, but I know loads of people who have died from you know cancer and what have you.

So, is that going on Carl's quote?

Does that work?

Is he right?

What did he say?

Good.

Well, we're off to to a fascinating start.

I think it probably best,

Rick, if we return to the very beginning of time, the dawn of man, because of course even in primitive prehistoric ages medicine was practised in some ways from the research people have done, cave paintings and the like.

Carl, I wonder if you would just give us your initial thoughts on

the

medicine of the ancient world.

You you've not you sound like you're if you you haven't studied it or or you're being

modest.

You're being modest?

Never really thought about it.

They didn't have much.

I know that

Tootin Carmoon.

Tootin Carmoon.

He died of having a knee injury.

So they didn't have that much medicine knocking about back then.

Right, where do you get this information from?

It sounds vague.

I read it at an exhibition I went to.

And they had to.

Did you read the whole sentence or just?

No, I just saw they had some video footage made up.

It wasn't from the time, and they just sort of said this is probably what happened.

Did you put the headphones on a listener, or do you just guess it?

I just looked because

I couldn't have the headphones.

Of course not.

Why couldn't you have the headphones?

They're just expensive.

How much?

About 50 quid, I think, deposit and everything.

Well, you get that back, though, if you return them.

All you have to do is take them off your head.

I don't like the idea of handing money over because it's like when you get a flat and that and you put a deposit in.

You never get the full deposit back.

I don't like deposits.

Well,

what do you think?

They're going to take 50 quid off because you put wallpaper on your headphones.

But it's not the same as it.

It's a municipal position.

So you're going to deprive yourself of education because you don't trust.

The natural history music.

He came off a chariot.

They're dangerous things.

He came off a chariot.

You saw that on the phone.

How do you know he died?

How could you tell from visual images that Toon Kamun died from a knee injury?

It's just,

honestly, you're going to make yourself looked after because that's what happened.

Imagine that.

In a room with Carl Pilton, we make ourselves look dark.

That would be incredible.

So aside from Toon Kamun's knee injury, that's pretty much your grasp of the ancient world in medicine?

Well, I don't know anyone else who's knocking about when I'm in the middle of the morning.

What about if we go back even further?

What about if we go to sort of primitive men, cave-dwelling men?

What do you know there of medicine in that early stage?

Is that guessing?

Or wasn't the earliest ones people like Shaman and those

tribal lords that would say well that was um I assume even

pagan man had sort of apothecaries that certain roots and yeah, yeah, shaman who would use uh herbs and so on.

But of course, if we go back to uh primitive man, you're obviously familiar, I believe it's pronounced uh is it trepanning?

Oh, when you take the top of your head off and let out the demons and they found various skulls from ancient man with holes bored in the top, some of which had healed over, suggesting that they had indeed drilled holes in their head, or presumably they wouldn't have had drills in that point, cracked the head, and in their thinking letting out evil spirits and then they healed back over so in some instances the people survived

don't you think it's fascinating that that there was there was a one point when man discovered that this thing that we now call the brain which sort of houses the mind he knew was in his head

it's not that amazing well no it's not to you because you know it's there but no but but back then i reckon i'd know that's where it is why do you can you feel where you're thinking?

Well, it just makes sense to put it there.

Why?

When you think and you speak,

it comes out of your mouth.

So it just makes sense that whatever's near that is near to the mouth.

If your brain was in your foot, it'd take ages for you to say anything.

No, it wouldn't.

Why?

This is like actually talking to a primitive man about his understanding of medicine.

They would have more insight.

By this point, we'd have just cracked open your head to get the demons out.

Shall we move on to

the ancient world in terms of Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, of course, because they made huge advances, particularly the Romans, who understood, of course, the importance of sanitation.

You know, famously, their streets were clean.

Yeah.

Don't you think that if we hadn't have cleaned up as much,

that

I don't know, we'd be stronger.

What?

Well, I know what you mean.

Yeah, they say

leggy kids eat.

Yeah, of course.

Well, that's building up its sort of

immunity system.

If you're too coseted, you don't fight it.

And, you know, that's exactly what

immunisation is: giving you a bit.

Yeah, but it's gone mental now.

Whenever a baby's born, it's drugged out of its eyeballs.

It's only about a week old.

They're giving it all sorts of shots.

Like what?

Loads of stuff.

Stuff for ooping cough.

Yeah, you don't want oops.

You've got tooting calm because it like an ooping cough.

But did you give it loads of stuff?

And now it's like,

I don't know, it's making us weak.

Yeah, soon there's going to be things that one, we're not immune to, and two, our antibiotics no longer work.

Because, of course, things like the viruses and bacteria or whatever, they evolve and change so quickly that you can't keep up with them.

And also, there's this big thing, you know, like the superbug, for example.

There's a very strong theory that says that it's where people took half the course of antibiotics.

And what it did was it was was almost like an immunization to the bacteria and virus against the antibiotic.

They got stronger.

That's what I mean.

So, yeah, we need some germs, as you'd call them.

But there are some that we have eradicated.

I mean, I think it was in our lifetime that they eradicated smallpox from the world.

They just stopped it, and it saved, I mean, millions and millions of lives.

And they wiped it out.

There are rumours, of course,

that both Russia and America still have the smallpox virus under lock and key which they could theoretically breed and use in a chemical warfare situation.

Well there was a bit of a scandal a few years ago, I think 10 years ago, where in a university laboratory someone came across a marked yoghurt pot in deep freeze that had smallpox in it that was a hangover from the 70s.

When you say it was marked was it like someone's put their name on it because they don't want someone to

smallpox.

No, I think they

they looked into it, and it was the deep, frozen

smallpox virus that thawed out.

It just left in the fridge.

Well, I think so, yeah.

It was an understanding problem.

I'm sure that somewhere.

What I mean is it's under lock and key or frozen at minus 200 degrees.

What?

Under lock and key and all that.

It's not good enough.

Get rid of it.

Why are they keeping a little tub of smallpox knocking about?

Well, are they not meant to be?

Well, that's what I'm saying.

What are they doing there in the first place?

To me, that's like in in james bond where they don't kill him when they have the chance there's always that little thing of oh let's play with danger let's keep a bit yeah well

i don't i don't understand why you'd why you'd why you'd store that well there's probably a presumption it's probably leaving from the cold war where people were thinking well listen what if russia's still got some smallpox we better hang on to some smallpox it's just clutter though as well isn't it you see we're obsessed we're keeping stuff and it's the same with germs we can't even say get rid of that We won't be needing it.

Smallpox.

We'll keep it just in case.

Get rid of it.

We've got this obsession thing again.

It's saving everything.

It's like how we save every animal, even a germ.

We get upset about if it dies out.

Keep it up.

You say that, but of course, famous Day Alexander Fleming discovered what may be the most important breakthrough of the 20th century, which was the first antibiotic, I think, in 1928.

And he's literally saved hundreds of millions of lives with that, changed the face of modern medicine.

And he discovered that because he left a bit of old bread out for a while and it went all mouldy in his kitchen.

And he thought, oh, what's that?

Oh, let's have a look.

Like I've said to you before, it's down to him being scruffy more than anything.

It just seems like there's a lot of scruffy kitchens around that,

you know, I mean, you're saying.

But think of his cleaner would come in and gone, oh, Mr.

Fleming.

Oh, you s oh, you you disgust me, you fucking filthy, scruffy cunt.

I'm gonna throw this bread away.

He's gonna go, um, uh, Maud, what did you do with that um old bread I left out?

It had gone green, sir, so I chucked it away.

Oh, Maude, you dopey fucking slut.

You've just caused millions and millions of people to die.

Keep out of my fucking kitchen.

I know, but but don't put it there.

It's the same way smallpox and

it's a yogurt in a yogurt pot.

Wow.

You're asking for trouble.

But what if Maude had come in and thrown that away again?

He couldn't shout at her.

She's doing a job.

I'd be annoyed if it was still there.

Yeah.

So it's been there now for a couple of weeks.

You're not even asked.

There's a lot of cleaners.

That's part of the problem, I'd say.

The cleaners.

They're not doing the job.

That's the problem with hospitals, isn't it?

Yeah.

There's filth everywhere.

Well, they proved a point.

In one hospital, they brought a team of people in to show doctors and nurses how to clean things properly.

And deaths went down 30%.

There you go.

Just from properly washing your hands and properly washing the floor and things.

That's amazing, isn't it?

It's pretty simple.

Just don't put like yogurt pots with smallpox in the fridge.

Yeah, that's a starter.

Yeah, but you were saying earlier, oh, let's let babies eat mud, don't inject them.

Yeah, but let them crawl around a dirty floor, clean up the floor, and no one will die.

I did say that, but we've gone too far now.

Babies are coming out marred.

Oh, they can't handle anything now.

Who's got a runny nose?

They're coming out all mardy.

Get mardy.

Yeah, they get ill easy.

They're not tough babies anymore.

We're ending up with a load of weak people who need looking after all the time.

That costs a lot of money.

And they can't do anything.

They're useless.

Now, that doesn't happen in Other Nature.

If a little weak bird is born, you see Bill Oddy saying that

he says that won't last a week.

And he's right.

You watch it and say, oh, that third baby that came out, it died.

And what's the whole point, Carl?

That modern medicine, which can help people live to the age of 75, 80, that it shouldn't be doing that?

It should let people just die off.

Well, here's something, right?

The estate that I grew up on, there's a woman there.

Yeah.

Scruffy Sandra.

Oh, I like her already.

Oh, it's great.

It's so descriptive.

She had no chance, even if she cleaned up her act.

She'd come in looking like Pretty Woman.

You go, all right, Scruffy.

No, it's not.

What's the point?

What is the point?

So the thing is, she used to always get on these buses called dylarides that were sort of like posh taxis.

You could call for one, it'd come round to your house, and it would pick you up, and you'd pay like 50p.

But he would pick up a bunch of other people as well.

Yeah, yeah, on the way.

So it would take ages to watch.

That's how you do it.

Oh, it's good, though.

It's kind of a bit of a day out.

Old people used to love it because you'd get to see things.

And you'd hear a call coming in on the radio that, you know, Scruffy Sandra's been picked up, and you'd go, oh, God.

And she'd always have loads of bin bags with her for some reason.

Now, the thing is.

Well, she sounds clean.

No, she's stunk.

Well, she's taken out the business.

Was she homeless?

No, she wasn't homeless.

No, she used to just

in bath bath and that.

She just stunk.

But the weird thing is...

Why don't they call her stinky Sandra?

She never was ill.

Right.

People didn't sit next to her.

Yeah.

Because she stunk.

Yeah.

Now, because of that, anyone who might have had a bit of flu or a cold never sat next to Scruffy Sandra.

Right.

Because she stunk.

But that was good.

That was like a protection thing for her.

Because she knew that because she stunk, no one wants to sit next to her.

She wouldn't pick up the

germ.

Right.

No, but this is quite your point is: in order to fend off illness, you have to not bathe.

And so you stink.

So you don't, so you don't.

So you're saying that it wasn't that she'd built up an immunity, it was that she stank so much that flu wouldn't come near her.

This is such a specific example.

It's not applicable in any other scenario.

There's always colds, there's always flu.

It's whether your immunity is good or bad.

The times I get ill are usually after like a you know, a long haul flight or something, when you're surrounded by it and you're run down a little bit.

Maybe if you didn't bathe for three days before the flight.

Yeah.

So you know, it's always there.

There's colds and flus everywhere.

That's interesting, isn't it, that more sort of colds are spread through shaking hands than people

you know, just taking in the air.

Because people sneeze into their hand and they think that's sort of safer.

But then they shake hands and you get it on your hand.

hand and it sort of dies in the air quickly, but it it stays on your skin a bit more because it's you know, you're it's nice and warm, lovely environment.

So, uh, that's why some sort of germaphobes don't even shake hands anymore.

Yeah, but that's going too far because they're gonna die of something.

You can't be that paranoid, you've gotta get on with your life.

Loneliness.

And it's good to feel ill because when you feel better, you appreciate how good it is.

Does it make any sense at all?

It's good to feel ill, doesn't make any sense at all.

No, it does afterwards.

The other weekend when I was ill, I don't know what was up with me, but I got I got something.

Symptoms?

Went to toilet a lot, felt sick at the same time, got a sweat on,

felt weak, had the shakes.

Just a bug, yeah.

Lasted probably

about 24 hours.

After that 24 hours, you go, oh, I feel good again.

It's nice to feel good again.

And it makes you appreciate how good you feel.

Now, sometimes I don't know if I feel well.

Doesn't make any sense at all either.

What do you mean, sometimes you don't know whether you feel well?

Because I've been in my body for years.

Here he goes again.

Here he goes again.

The two minds.

If there was some sort of kit that the doctor said, How are you feeling, Mr.

Pilkington?

I go, oh, I think I feel all right.

And they go, well, do you?

I don't know.

And they go, well, step into the machine, right?

Get into the machine.

And if he could somehow transfer

my feeling

into his body, so I could feel how he feels, and then he can feel how I feel.

And he'll go, oh, you're not well at all.

Your heart beats irregular for a start.

You're a maniac.

This is.

I don't know what's going on here.

Did you just accept that if you feel well, you know.

Because you don't know if you feel well.

Hang on, let's get this machine built.

Sorry, why are people bothering studying AIDS?

We've got to get this machine built.

Listen, this machine could do a lot of good if they could do it.

Why?

Because some people, you hear about people who go, oh, I think I've got a bit of wind.

Before you know it, they drop down dead.

Right?

Because they didn't know.

They just...

Well,

didn't Mr.

Jones have a sweat on Mrs.

Jones before?

Oh, yeah, he did, but he always had a sweat on.

Well, didn't it bother him?

No, he was used to it.

Happened for years.

Why didn't you come in?

And what would the machine do again?

The machine would make my doctor

feel like me.

He'd be sat there and he'd go.

Sorry, who's saying to Mrs.

Jones, didn't Mr.

Jones have a sweat on?

The doctor.

So the doctor knew he had a sweat on.

Why didn't the doctor say, well, look at that?

No, no, he didn't.

He asked Mrs.

Jones.

He's a good doctor though, isn't he?

He's not a very good doctor then.

Yeah, but this is the problem now, isn't it?

Right.

So Mr.

Jones went to the doctor and said, oh, Oh, I've got a sweat on.

Right?

Right, so he'd go, hmm, well, I'll tell you what, get in the machine.

So Mr.

Jones gets in the machine.

The doctor hits the button.

Mr.

Jones gets into the doctor.

The doctor goes, you have got a sweat on.

I'm familiar with this because I had a fella in the other day with a similar thing.

Take three of these.

You are a mental case.

I don't know what this is.

Because why can't a doctor make that observation like a doctor does?

Why can't a doctor, using his knowledge, observe the person with a sweat on?

This is like a scene from Ghost.

This is like Patrick Swayze.

Listen, Barbara.

Do you know that time when I went to the doctors and he said my nerves are too short?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Well, listen, I've told you about it.

I don't want to go through it again.

But

he

looked at my legs and stretched and that.

He said, Yeah, it's the old short nerves problem.

Now.

The old pain, the short nerves problem.

That took like three visits before he worked that out.

Right.

But how would he be able?

Just because he's if he was feeling how you were feeling, I wouldn't help him identify it.

Yeah.

You're there in your body and you're not going.

Bloody hell, my nerves are a bit short.

Doctor, you're going to the doctor.

Okay, and and we're just going to play some pilked in him and just

to do it.

I told him that's in me.

Oh, my nerves are too short.

When my nerves were short.

Are they not short or have they extended since then?

Well, I just have to do stretches and

it's pulled them about.

But when I had that, I'm not very good with words.

Go on.

So when I was going in saying, Doctor, my knee's aching,

and he'd go,

what sort of ache is it?

I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's just an ache.

A toothache.

It's like a toothache in my my leg.

But it's different.

It's a different ache.

Now the thing is.

It's like an arse ache.

It's hard to explain an ache.

So he'd have to feel the ache and then he could make an assumption from it.

Thank you.

So he would presumably go through training going in the machine and they'd bring in various sick people and he would experience and feel every single ailment.

Yeah, but over.

Doctor, I'm going to let you know now what a swift kick in the bollocks feels like, just in case you ever have to diagnose that.

Oh, you gone!

Can't remember that one.

Yeah, but.

Doctor, now you're going to feel a spike up the ass.

It's all about it.

Oh, I can't remember that one okay no doctor i just wait until the man comes in with a spike up the ass no no you've got to tell you so you know but i reflect the necessity if he's coming

to experience everything before someone comes in and gets into your body like ghost and you'll know what it is hey listen let's not let's not dismiss this idea out of hand of course because you'll famously remember uh rick that kyle had the idea of a man who can grow backwards So he's born as an old man, and when he dies, he's a young baby.

I think we're all looking forward to the new Brad Pitt film that is exactly that plot.

It's not really strange, is it?

Because it's from a novel I think written before Carl was born.

That's true.

That is true, yes.

But I haven't read it.

Well, that's obvious.

It's just an idea.

And with all ideas come something.

Einstein said that.

He said, if an idea isn't.

Go on.

Wait, wait, just let me finish.

We've got an Einstein quote here.

This is a historic day.

Carl, sorry, what were you saying?

What did Albert Einstein say?

He just said something along the lines of.

Well, no, no, no, no.

It It doesn't matter about how he worded it.

It's the point in how.

Well, I think it is.

I think a quote, I think, like all

any sort of

poetic content of anything, is exactly

how it's worded.

So just what did Einstein say exactly?

Well, he said something along the lines of

an idea.

If an idea isn't daft.

Oh, start against that.

Call this here.

No, because he started.

He said, if an idea isn't daft, it isn't worth thinking about.

What?

Say it again?

If an idea isn't daft, it isn't isn't worth thinking about.

I can't imagine him saying daft.

No, well, it was something like that, though, meaning that

every new idea seems a bit mental.

Yeah.

Right?

It's a good point.

But then it leads to something.

I'm not sure that he.

But I think if we were sat with Einstein now and you'd brought up the machine that allows doctors to feel, I don't think he'd be saying we should pursue that idea.

There's some ideas that go, I think the earth might be round.

We'd go, oh, it is flat.

And then there's people who stand in doorways covered in crucifixes with tinfoil on their head saying, Jesus is in my cock.

Yeah.

Now he's a mentalist.

Yes, but what I'm saying is, wouldn't you have said it was mental years ago when someone said, I'm going to make a machine so I can look inside your head.

Years on.

Hello, get in the machine.

We've got an MRI scanner.

It's the next one along.

They'd have gone, well, why are you looking in their head?

It's where the brain is.

I'll tell you what, we've got similar to it anyway, because I've read about this machine where, right, say if

put it on Steve, right?

Go on.

I wear

a camera on my head.

Right, if this is going to be I can see Steve's thoughts.

No, but it's similar to that and it works as well.

So I put a camera on Steve's head.

Okay, it's changed already.

Who's head the camera on?

I don't think it matters.

Okay, okay,

let's go.

Just explain Steve's head.

Okay, right.

Right.

What I've got on my head are some goggles.

Right.

Over your eyes?

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

You've got the camera.

Through my goggles, I'm seeing what your camera's seeing.

And where's the camera?

Is it looking out from my eyes?

Yeah.

So basically, you can see what I can see.

So I'm seeing what you've seen.

But couldn't you just stand where I'm standing?

Well, that's just a monitor.

That happens now.

Yeah, you can all look at the same monitor.

Hang on.

So.

How does it work now?

Well, no, wait, wait.

We're all

this is

you're at the Royal College of Surgeons.

You're presenting this idea now.

Everyone in the world has sat down here.

The eminent scientists are going, it's can't be done.

He's a genius.

He's got an idea for cameras and goggles.

No, you're saying this already exists.

This has just come out the other week.

Oh, okay.

Put a camera on Steve's eyes.

He sees through the camera.

I haven't got the goggles.

Why is he seeing through a camera?

I don't know what you mean.

Wherever he looks, wherever he looks, the camera's looking.

Okay, so it's a camera, right?

Okay.

It's a camera on his head.

He's not seeing through it, it's just seeing what he sees because it's pointing in exactly the same direction as his eyes.

Yeah, if he turns his head to the right,

so so it's monitored to you.

So you're seeing, you're looking at a monitor, really.

Right.

So one of the simplest ideas, but it's taking us 20 minutes to explain it.

Okay, go on.

So it's the same as a cameraman pointing the camera anywhere.

We're watching the telly.

We're seeing what the cameraman sees, basically.

Go on there, but you're not like that.

You just invented television.

Well done.

Okay, right.

So I've got the camera on my head, it's seeing what I'm seeing.

Go.

You've got goggles on your eyes.

I've got goggles on.

If you turn right,

I feel like I'm turning right.

Okay.

Now, my brain gets to a point that if you wear it for long enough, that brain thinks it's you.

Because what happens is

because the brain's being kidded.

At the end of the day, my brain thinks it's seen everything because my eyes are looking at stuff.

Yeah, no, that's true, that's true, but it doesn't think I'm Steve Merchant.

It experienced what Steve's seen as like a virtual reality.

No, but that's the weird thing.

If you wear it for long enough, the brain's sort of seeing it, like Steve's arm, go up to his head and scratch it.

And it gets to a point where the brain feels a scratch, even though it's not scratching my head.

So they're saying this is like

you're kidding your brain, basically.

You can kick that.

You're not going to believe that you're me.

No, you're not going to start experiencing life as I experience it.

My brain would.

What do you mean, your brain would, but you wouldn't?

Because

I'm kidding the brain.

But you couldn't kid it into thinking you're me.

You wouldn't forget that you're Carl wearing a contraption.

But what it was saying is if someone went up to your stomach and started tickling you, my brain would look down and see that someone is tickling me.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I'd start laughing.

I can understand you might.

No, you wouldn't.

Well, yeah, you might do because it might be a confusing stimulus.

But the point is, there may be certain physical things which you experience through it, but you're not going to stop thinking, hang on, I'm Carl wearing the mask.

No, but you can do that.

You're thinking you're Carl seeing all the things that happened.

You're going to start having memories that you think are your...

Your memories are going to change?

You're not going to remember your name.

You're not going to remember Suzanne's name.

What are you talking about?

No, but

say if we did that at that event with a load of students in front of us, I'd remember that day through your eyes.

Right, so I'd live in your day.

But you'd also remember that you were wearing contraption.

You wouldn't remember it as being, oh, I was Steve Merchant for a day.

But I can't remember.

No, you'd have different thoughts because you'd exist.

But look, Carl, listen, I sat down and we watched the same thing.

We watched a bit of Broke Rack Mountain, and we all had different thoughts.

Yeah, because we're all sat in different places.

No, no, roughly speaking, we had the same experience when we're looking at the same thing.

But it doesn't mean you assess it the same way.

It doesn't mean you understand it the same way.

and it doesn't mean you apply the knowledge in the same way.

No,

I understand that, but it's an interesting experiment.

It is

interesting.

It'd be interesting to see live.

You're actually living.

It's a different window to the world.

Well, yeah, say if I was a fellow with no arms and legs, but these goggles had a really long lead, and you went about living your day, and I was looking through your eyes, I could have quite an interesting life.

Yes, you could

stop remembering that you're the person wearing the contraption.

And also, if you...

Well, what is life?

Life is what you experience.

Yeah, but no, but no, but if Steve went off,

but you'd know this, wouldn't you?

I mean,

would you?

If you stuck one on a baby.

Well, yeah, that's different.

Yeah.

I mean, if a baby knew no different and those were his experience, then he would be feeling what he thought he was.

Then there'd be nothing.

But then, you know, let's face it, tickling someone is the sensation.

It's not the thought.

It's not the concept of being tickled.

It's not funny.

Because if someone goes to tickle you, but but they don't tickle you, you can actually laugh, can't you?

Because you go, oh, God, I know what the feeling's going to be like.

Yes, because you've already experienced the real thing.

Yeah.

I still think

I stop that sentence there, and you're lying.

Let's go back, if we may, shall we, to just some of the extraordinary

early developments in medicine.

Do you mind if we

go back?

Do you just get back on on message?

There are of course a number of

extraordinary developments.

You may obviously be aware, Carl, that the first contraceptive diaphragms centuries ago were citrus rinds.

Half an orange rind for instance would be would be used.

I mean more selfish men turned them inside out.

I believe that's also still being used in parts of Manchester.

Half a what?

An orange.

Just think of your head.

And it worked?

Well, we don't know at this juncture.

I mean, maybe.

I don't know what to do.

It worked for contraception because women went, fuck off, what are you going to do with a fucking orange on your cock?

Or you don't have.

But it could.

I mean, again, it's that thing in it of we look at it now and we laugh.

But look, look at what's happening.

People now are always trying to get us to eat more fruit.

I don't know, mate.

That's a way of getting.

I thought for a minute he was going to say, okay, so they start with, then they went from the orange wine to, say, a coconut shell.

That was too big, that didn't work.

Run!

Here comes Coconut John!

No, don't put half a pineapple on your cock, that's insane.

And then somewhere down the line, they finally got to contraception as we understand it.

I thought that's where you're going, but no.

Something about eating oranges is helpful for us.

What I'm saying is, if you go into any well-known supermarket and you look at, say, some young kid who's had a kid and you look at stuff in their shopping basket, they're not buying fruit, they're buying you know, burgers and chips, turkey Twizzlers,

crisps, and all that.

No, but they love having it away.

Get some fruit in,

so they definitely have fruit in the house, which at the moment a lot of kids don't have fruit in their house, that's why they're eating turkey Twizzlers.

But the mum loves having it away, so she would have loads of fruit in.

So she's unappeased.

If she could use an orange for contraception, she would also be giving the kids out.

So half the orange she'd give to the kids and half the orange she'd stick up a penny.

Yeah, a treat for everyone.

Have a bit of fruit and you she's got what she wants.

Whereas at the moment, what happens?

A burger's not coming in helpful for anyone.

If you want me tonight, pop a sesame seed bone on your cock.

Take out the fucking pickle.

No one likes to fucking pickle up the fanny.

Oh, oh, he's a bloody romantic.

Oh,

a he popped a plum roll sausage at me, Fanny yesterday.

He loves me.

Did you know,

Carl, that cataract operations on the eye were performed in India as early as a thousand BC?

And in Babylonia in the same time, the fees of eye surgeons were rigidly fixed by law and were quite generous.

So, for instance, if you're a very rich person, it cost you about ten shekels.

If you're a slave, only two shekels.

But if the rich person lost the sight of their eye after the surgeon had operated, they would cut off the hand of the doctor.

What, so he gets one chance at it?

Well, he doesn't want to screw up.

Yeah, I know, but everyone's allowed a couple of errors.

That's how you learn, isn't it?

A stupid rule.

But then again, I don't know why they'd be so worried about their eyes back then.

What do you mean?

Well, there was less to look at back then.

What do you mean?

Well, like that, I saw a fellow on the tube on the way here today who was blind, proper fully on, fully on blind.

Blind.

Um now, for him, I just was like, wow, that's so depressing.

Right.

There's so much to see in the world now.

Loads of stuff.

Right.

Art, buildings, and all that.

Now, back then,

if these people did have sight once,

the pyramids, you you remember it in your head.

And that's that's enough.

There wasn't loads of clutter anyway.

It was all sand.

So even if you fell over over because you're blind, at least you'd landed on something soft.

Whereas now, it's rubbish being blind.

Stairs, loads and loads of people, loads of curbs and things.

It's not a good time to be blind.

So I'd prefer if I was going to be blind, be blind back when Tooton Carmoon was knocking about.

Is that a choice that people have that are blind now?

No.

If you're going to be blind, be blind back when Tooton Car-Moon was knocking about.

But all I'm saying is.

Sorry, Doctor, I didn't realise there was a choice.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you'd only told me you were going blind, I'd have said, well, let's get you back 3,000 years.

It just seems a bit harsh.

That's all.

When someone's trying to help you and operate on your eyes and they have a little bit of a slip-up, like we all do in jobs, you have a bad day, and he has to have his hands cut off.

Then who's helping him?

Who puts the hand back on him?

And if they don't put the hand back on him right, do they have something done to them?

They're blinded.

Well, it just seems like a no-win situation.

I wouldn't be a doctor.

And maybe that's why there aren't enough doctors about now, because of things like that that put people off.

I don't think so.

Well, I wouldn't be a doctor now.

Why?

Look at the asshole that happens now.

Everything's you're being watched all the time, you're not allowed to slip up.

Right.

Well, that's generally quite a good rule, isn't it?

That doctors don't make mistakes.

No, but you've got to.

I'd say, at the end of the day, it's a complicated job.

I'd get more annoyed when, you know, say, like, the fellow I've got around coming to fix my boiler.

The fact he keeps having a go, he keeps charging me 80 quid, he doesn't really fix it.

Is it still

working?

I haven't cut his hands off.

No.

He keeps coming back.

Oh, I'm a bit short of money.

Let's go around to the Pilkington household.

Charge him 80 quid again.

No, it's Christmas.

Let's pop round twice.

Do you know what I mean?

Whereas a doctor who's trying to help people is a difficult job.

Yeah.

If he makes a mistake now and again,

I think, well, it's bound to happen.

It's comfortable.

Can't you see where

I agree with you that people make mistakes, and I imagine there are good and bad doctors.

They try and even that out by it being a very, very, obviously

stringent exam.

And, you you know.

It's 11 years they've got to do.

I read up on it.

11 years it takes to be a doctor.

No, it doesn't.

It does.

It takes seven.

No, but then they've got to be in hospital or something for four years before they get to play with someone.

Right, okay, yeah.

So that's ages.

You're going to get bored.

You're going to get bored.

No, no, but that's it.

They really do try and rule out.

And there's still chance and mistake.

And don't forget, you know, you're given nearly impossible tasks still in medicine.

Just

think of the risk with

transplants alone.

And they're getting better and better at those and they're lasting longer.

But the fact of the matter is

it's better to have a go, innit, than not have one.

If someone said to me,

I need a new heart,

we're going to do it.

If they say you're going to die anyway, let's try this new thing, you might as well.

But then there are some things that there is not worth the risk.

When someone goes wrong, someone's facial surgery goes wrong because they wanted plumper lips or a little nose, I go, you're a fucking idiot.

Exactly, yeah.

You shouldn't even be doing that.

Doctors shouldn't even be allowed to do that.

I don't know why.

I really don't know why a doctor under a hippocratic oath takes the risk of something going badly wrong, sometimes general anesthetic, because

they can't be bothered to fucking go for a run.

So they have fucking bits sliced off and tied up and sucked out.

I want to go, you lazy fucking fat pig.

Just go for a run and stop eating burgers.

You might fucking die.

Well, can I just stop you there, Rick?

Because actually, if it weren't for a plump patient, the stethoscope would never have been invented.

Well, because he couldn't hear the battle.

Yeah, the person who invented the stethoscope, Dr.

Renee Leneck,

couldn't have a very fat patient come in and couldn't hear her heart through the blubber.

But then that's the sign of the problem.

I mean, that's the sign of the problem, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, rather than saying, hang on, let's get a bigger chair in for her because she's got a fat ass,

I'd say, well, you're not welcome here.

If you can't get through the door, I'm not seeing you.

I mean, if you've got a doctor who's having his hands cut off because he messed up an operation, yet fatty's coming in and getting special treatment

at one given time of day.

You see, this is what I'm saying, right?

This is going right back to what I was saying at the beginning.

The problem is, we've got pills for everything, and all this is doing is making people treat the body badly.

Because you're going, be alright, there'll be something.

It's funny, isn't it?

That like these tests, they go, well, let's have a look.

It's what we we were talking before about um uh weighing kids.

If they can't get through the door to get to school, there's too you don't know.

If they go, Oh, I'll just now take a sample of your stool.

Actually, I don't you're too fat, your shits come out like taggiatelli, your ass is too fucking fat, stop eating your gut.

I'm gonna take a sample of your stool, what the one you fucking broke when you sat down.

I just think this is the problem.

You know, we can do too much, and because of this, people are going, I don't care about my body.

They worry more about the the plasmatelli getting a scratch on it than they do about their own body.

Exactly.

And if we stopped giving them tablets willy-nilly, they'd have to look after the body more.

Willy-nilly is one of the worst diseases in the Western world, of course.

Now,

medicine is the art or science of healing.

And that doesn't always have to be a drug or a surgery.

I mean, bedside manner has a lot to do with things.

And also, it's all about care as well.

We mustn't just forget that some people don't need medicine, they just need help.

For example, there are people that help disabled people

have intercourse where they can't, you know, maybe get on to

the woman herself.

And there's someone that actually helps the man put in his penis to the woman's vagina.

I've never seen, I've never even heard of this.

It's true.

Absolutely true.

The helpers.

Yeah, no, I believe that is the case.

Yeah.

And that's just, no, that's just as needed as anything that might kill you.

It's not, that's pleasure.

Yeah.

So what are you saying?

Because you can't walk or move, that you can't love someone and want to share that love someone.

And you're saying it's not a priority.

Well, no, but they're going to live.

They're healthy apart from their disability.

I've met someone.

They want to, you know, consummate this love.

And someone

helps them out and goes, well, you know, that's part of my job.

No, it's not part of the job.

Well, it is part of this job because that's their job.

I have never heard anyone say, I've had a right day today.

Why?

I've been playing with Arthur's tackle all day.

They don't play with Arthur's tackle.

They pop Arthur's tackle in Hilda's vagina.

I don't think they do.

They do.

How can they enjoy that?

I mean, maybe

once and they'd go, that didn't work, did it?

I didn't enjoy that, Hilda.

No.

How can they enjoy it with a nurse stood there after they're in the middle?

No, they help her in.

She helps Arthur in, or he, might be a male nurse, pops Arthur in, goes, okay, Arthur,

I'll see you in a few minutes.

Right, goes outside.

But what's the point, though, in that?

Why?

Because it's all about the mood and everything.

He's just stuck onto a like a stag beetle clinging onto a leaf.

There's no enjoyment in that.

Oh, the well-known stag beetle copulating with a leaf syndrome.

No, but I'm not sure.

That's someone-known position in the garbageutring.

No, he knows it, you know.

I think it's a lovely act, and someone's willing to.

Wouldn't you help someone in it?

Probably not.

No, but also, no, no, so there's a guy who goes, um, uh, oh, this is my wife.

Um, we both say, Well, well,

I can't, you know, can you just pop me in, Carl?

You're the only person around.

No, I don't think it's important.

But there are people.

What do you mean you don't think it's important enough?

I'd be happy to go round, put the washing on for them, make the bed.

Do you want a cup of tea?

Yeah, I'd love one.

There you go.

Oh, just before you go, forget it.

If they asked me to do that,

I'd quit.

And I don't think it happens because people wouldn't take that on for a job.

You never hear about it.

On Comic Relief, when they're raising money, they don't go, thanks to Midland Bank for this 100 grand.

That's going to go towards Arthur getting his end away.

That's ridiculous.

So

you would rather them not have the pleasure of each other than just help them in?

No, because they'd work out some way that they could do something for each other.

I like to play the guitar.

My fingers aren't long enough.

I'd knock it on the head.

It's the same thing.

If you can't do it, don't do it.

So are you telling me, right?

Okay.

Suppose there's a little fellow who's got no arms, no legs, right?

Little Bob.

Okay?

There he is.

Alright, Carl.

He's got a friend.

Another little fella with no arms and no legs.

Alright, Carl.

Right?

They love each other.

Two little fellas.

Two little dwarves with no arms and no legs.

Okay?

Lovely little fellas.

They get married.

Okay?

Carl,

you can't put my penis at my

boyfriend's bottom, can you?

No, you can't, no.

Why not?

Why?

Do you need anything else doing?

No, I'm fine, I'm fine.

Oh, it's weird how you can manage everything else.

I'm here to help you.

Everything else seems to be sorted.

Why do you need help in this department?

Well, because he's over there and I'm here.

If you just pop me in, it's just...

No, I'm not doing that.

It's not good for you.

You've lost your arms and legs.

You'll be losing that soon if you carry on sticking up there.

Well, after the medical advancements of the Greeks and the Romans, of course, through the Middle Ages, particularly in Europe, we ended up going backwards.

And it became, you know, people sort of returned to superstition, started relying on that.

Sanitation was poor, a lot of the amazing sanitation the Romans had built was left to ruin, and we went backwards.

And really, it wasn't until the Renaissance that people like Leonardo da Vinci started to draw pictures of the anatomy and so on.

Well, put in scientific evidence and experimentation behind the theories, as opposed to someone with a big cauldron saying, if you bury your toad, your warts go away.

Exactly.

He looked into this and

thought, thought, well, maybe they don't.

Maybe it's a coincidence, you know.

So that's where experimentation comes from.

Empirical evidence, not just hope.

Of course, you still couldn't experiment or dissect humans because that was frowned upon.

So often they would actually, the only people they were allowed to dissect and operate on were criminals.

And at times, criminals would actually be dissected or cut open whilst they were still alive as part of their punishment.

Is that ever justifiable?

Do you think, Carl, that people sacrifice for medical advancements?

They do it now, don't they?

You hear about these people having uh,

you know, tests done on them, you get paid twenty quid and they say, Let's let's rub this cream on your head.

Yeah, and you get your twenty quid, and if if your head goes funny, they say, Well, you took the twenty quid, it's your own fault.

Wasn't that a student that took yeah,

he became the living elephant man, didn't he?

Oh, yeah.

It was quite horrific, his head was in all kinds of weird

I mean that's unfortunate for 20 quid.

But I'd say do it on the ill people because they've got nothing to lose.

Just test it.

It's, you know, all this testing on animals and that.

Well, don't test it on animals.

If you've got an itch, the doctor can say, I've got this cream here.

We haven't tested it.

It might work.

It might make it worse.

Give it a go.

Right.

Yeah, but the whole point is that if you do that, someone's head might blow up to the side.

It might outweigh the owl man.

It's happened already.

A fellow who had nothing wrong with him has now got a head of the elephant man for 20 quid.

Yes, I know.

Well, but that isn't fair.

No, I know.

But you're saying, you're going for athlete's foot, rub this on your feet, are your bollocks fat off?

Never mind, it was a chance we had to take.

I mean, that's a particularly sloppy bit of medical research, that one.

No, yeah.

No, but say, like, my auntie Nora, right?

She's had everything wrong with her, right?

She's had tablets that haven't been tested on anyone else.

You test them on Nora.

She's and she's up for it.

She's like, oh, I haven't had that.

That's her little tester.

Yeah.

She loves it.

But

she knows that that's the case.

And she's happier to give something a go than not a go.

I mean, it's ridiculous, the amount of stuff.

She rattles.

She carries that many pills.

Like a maracca.

You can hear her coming.

But that's the way her life is now.

She's just used to the fact that if it weren't for all these tablets, she'd be dead.

Yeah, but well, not necessarily, but but the pills, she doesn't take pills that have been untested.

She's not taking experimental pills.

She's honestly, she's got so much.

You just made that up then.

You just assume assume that, that they haven't been tested on someone.

Where'd they get these pills from that haven't been tested?

Well, it's all very new.

She's on a lot of new medication.

That can go either way.

Could this be one of the reasons why she farted for 24 hours?

It could have been one of the side effects.

Five minutes.

Oh, five minutes, was it?

Yeah,

that's what my mum said.

It's all the medication.

Because your body's in shock, isn't it?

It's been

given all these drugs that it's not used to.

Luckily, some of the pills weren't suppositories, because she'd have lost them

in the great fart of 1989.

I've lost all my suppositories.

But, you know, that's what you do, isn't it, if you're in pain.

And, I mean, like, I don't know if I told you, when I had kidney stones.

I think you mentioned it.

I was in agony.

Yeah.

And they said in the, I was in AE, lying on my back,

and the woman at the AE counter said to Suzanne, who's that over there?

And she said, oh, he's with me.

He's in agony.

So they said, what's up with him?

So it's his kidney stones again.

Because this is when I went back at the night.

I was like, I couldn't care that people were staring at me.

I was rolling about on the floor like a dying fly on my back.

I just didn't care about what was going on around me.

But I was told that because it's busy, that they might have to send someone out to shove

something on my arse that would get to the pain quicker.

What do you mean, send them out?

While you're rolling on the floor in AE, they're going to send someone out.

Oh,

you mean

a pill?

I thought you meant to get to your kidney quicker than up your your knot.

No, no, no, no, a pill.

They put it up there, and then apparently it'll kick in quicker.

Yeah, yeah.

The tablet works quicker

up your arsenic, it does down your throat.

Yeah, because you remove its membrane, and it's well, I was up for it.

I just was like, whatever it takes.

Now, saying that to me now.

But hold on, though.

What if the doctor said, okay, I could give you this morphine, take it, it will take a few minutes to kick in.

Or I could rub some on my penis.

I'll pop an orange on the end of my penis.

I rub that in morphine and I pop that out of

rectum, Mr.

Pilgerton.

Are you in agony or not?

Are you in agony?

Okay, look, I'm just smearing.

I'd say I'll get a second opinion.

Well, no, you haven't got time.

There it is.

Do you want this up your ass?

It's covered in morphine.

In his private life,

he's a promiscuous gay man, but in his professional life, he is a doctor with a morphine-smeared penis, and he's ready for action.

So if you're...

He's willing to do that in the middle of A ⁇ E.

Yeah.

So he takes no pleasure from that.

So are you in pain?

Do you want this done or not?

Yes or no?

He comes out into AE reception.

His trousers are in his ankles.

He has an erect penis.

He says, Carl, do you want me to stick this up your ass?

And your answer is...

Yes or no?

You're in terrible agony.

He's wearing a condom.

He smeared the condom in.

It's not unprotected

morphine penile.

Administration.

Administration.

And what?

In and out, Don.

Just in and out, yeah.

It just administered

that

your ass takes on the morphine from the Dr.

Venus.

And it's the only way, really.

In and out.

Yeah, in and out.

Up once, okay?

And out.

And it'll definitely work.

The pain will go away.

No side effects.

There'll be pleasure.

No side effects.

No.

I'd probably call Auntie Nora and ask if she's at it yet.

Can I just return us back to where we started from?

Because in Ricky's introduction, he said that modern man, in a sense, with all the technology we have, can play God.

And this is something which is huge now.

A lot of ethical discussions about things like stem cell research.

Should we be interfering in what should be a godly terrain?

You say no straight away.

Straight away, no.

I think

they're sort of like messing about now.

I think that's the problem.

They've got the tools and they like to use them.

And that's what happens.

I've got a a sander

for Christmas, and I can't wait to sand stuff.

I can't even think of enough things that need sanding, but I want to use it.

That's crusty sander.

And that's the problem, innit?

If you've got the tools, you can't have the tools and say, Pop'em in the shed.

Well, no, I don't want to use them.

I've got a new tool here.

That's the problem, innit?

All these, all these medical people.

That's what happened in the Hulk, innit?

Yeah, well, again, that's I'll just say that is a work of fiction.

The Hulk.

Yeah, but with all fiction comes the future.

Yeah.

Certainly in science fiction.

But the problem is, this is what I say is the problem.

We can sum it up here if you like and then

go on now.

Did you get a quote from someone?

Well yeah, yeah, it's it's is he's he is one for soundbites and um uh it just saves a lot of time uh Carl's quote.

He's not you don't have to study the book or anything.

Um so uh let's let's sum it up there.

Let's let we're gonna end it here, but we're gonna end it uh with uh with this quote from Carl Pilgerton.

Carl, shoot me.

People are living too long.

That's your summary of medicine.

Now, you see, I agree with medicine to stop pain because it's depressing pain.

Stop the pain.

I'd say, as soon as we sorted that out and we started saying, do you want a new face?

That's way over the line.

No one should be getting a new face unless they're really disfigured.

Yeah.

But those are the people who are getting new faces.

No, they're not.

There's people messing about.

Yeah, no, it's people.

Or plastic surgery.

But that's people's own choice.

They're paying for it.

It's ridiculous.

I know.

It's not taking it away from other people, is it?

Yeah, it is, because the person who's messing about with someone's face could be doing something else.

No, because they're plastic surgeons.

They're privately employed.

Yeah, but they shouldn't be.

They should be sorting someone else out who's got a little funny head.

They shouldn't be messing about with someone else's

trying to get some free treatment.

And it never looks right anyway.

You spend all that money.

It never fits properly.

This is just what annoys me about it.

Fish lips and

that stupid little skeletal nose.

You'd be better off changing the head, all of it, rather than messing about with the face because it never fits properly.

But you've completely, as a form of summary, you have completely gone off 100.

No, that's not a summary yet.

Summer up.

I have one more go.

This is the real one.

Okay, Carl.

Sum up our global guide to medicine.

Go.

Today's cure.

Today's cure is

something like that.

It'll be something like

today's cure is tomorrow's headache.

It's alright.

That's alright.

Because what I'm saying there is

we can come up with stuff.

We can come up with a tablet to get rid of headache.

Tomorrow, your headache's gone.

Your leg's hurting.

So today's cure is actually tomorrow's leg ache.

So today's cure is tomorrow's leg ache.

Yeah, but ages ago I said to you, don't solve problems.

Yeah.

Because a problem solved is a problem

caused.

I'm going to die.

I'm going to die.

I don't remember that quote.

But.

Okay, so finally, insulation, what you said was.

So.

Okay.

At the end of the day, we've all got to die of something.

Right.

Now, Albert might come in.

I'm a doctor.

Right, Albert, how are you today?

What's wrong with you today, Albert?

Oh, I've got an inflammation of the

testicular

reson.

Oh, my scrotal sac.

It's all stretchy and swollen, it's pustulating, and it's causing the penis to

be all red and inflamed, and that spread to the anus.

Right.

Take these tablets.

Right, where do I put them?

Where do I put them?

Just stab them with some water after a bath.

Okay, I'm not going to have a bath.

I can't have a bath with these.

Because

honestly, you see these get in a bath and they start babbling with the.

Like I say, just take the tablet.

I don't know what it is, but look at it.

It's like a mess.

It's like quite a mess down there.

I can't.

Take the tablets.

Take the tablets and come back.

Come back.

In a week's time.

Let me know how it goes.

Okay.

Right, so

let's imagine that that perfectly normal scenario has happened.

What is your point?

Right, you'll come back the week after.

The problems downstairs will be sorted.

At the end of the day, he's 76.

He's going to have something else wrong with him.

I do another check on you.

And even though your sack is sorted.

They're not quite right, to be honest.

It's nobody better.

Well, it swings and roundabouts because

the penis

is much more functional.

The testicles are really, they've lost all their skin.

It's just like a bag of spaghetti just hanging on the chair.

And the ass,

the ass is the idiot ass I've ever had.

I've had to, at some points,

I've got blood under my fingernails scratching my anus.

So it was not completely cured.

And this is why no one wants to be a doctor anymore.

We hope you enjoyed the audiobook A Ricky Jabe's Guide to Medicine.

Coming soon, Rickijabe's Guide to Natural History out February.