Guardian S5E4 (September 15, 2008)

Talking yesterday to Matt Robinson, the guy I did the film with that you came over and

did a part in that we've cut.

And

his dad is a doctor and

used to go around the world and stuff.

And when he was about ten, he went on a holiday and they were driving through Indonesia to get to somewhere else, I forget where, but they came across this village where he said the spiders have won.

Okay, they drive in, as you're driving in, he could see these things sort of hanging from the trees and the sort of telegraph poles.

And as they got closer, he realised they were just big spiders.

They just made waves everywhere and he could see them on the street.

He said it freaked him out.

They parked up in this

sort of like the high street.

And he said he got out and they were running on the pavements like pigeons and that's just running everywhere he said the kids were playing with them the kids were playing with them there was no one else freaked out

he said he ran to the restaurant they had stopped he ran into the restaurant freaked out he got into the restaurant and there was a tarantula on the floor and he ran back in the car and and he said he said later to his dad was that a dream and his dad went no it's true you know it's a real place right he was telling me about

the worst place in the world he was looking it up he was trying to google it and he put in he couldn't remember the name of this place, Indonesia, and he put in Spider Village, Indonesia, right?

And he couldn't find it.

But another one came up in Cambodia, and it was there, and he said it was exactly the same, just as bad.

A place where just spiders have won, okay?

But in this place, they eat them.

They eat the spiders.

The local inhabitants eat the spiders.

Yeah.

Wow.

So

this town is just dense with spiders.

They're just happy there.

No one's killing them.

No one's doing anything.

Are you just treading on them as you walk down the street?

He said it's just, they're just they've just taken over.

There's a place in off Madeira, they call Spider Island, where no one lives there, but

with absolutely no predators, there's just millions of spiders, but no one lives there.

How do you prevent the spiders, you know, when you're sleeping, crawling in, getting into the sky?

You don't, they just put up with them.

I suppose it's that, you know, they're no weirder than any other insect or pest or whatever you call them.

It's just, I suppose, because it's, you think of spiders as loners, and they're the and they're the top sort of phobia.

And it seems weird that they're almost treated like pets.

But isn't that a weird place, though, that you drive in and it's just, oh, hello, welcome to Spider Town.

I couldn't be dealing with it.

I mean, my mum wouldn't be that bothered.

She's still got that one that's under the telly.

She's had that for ages.

And my dad threatened her that he was going to kill it because he's sick of it.

She's put a bit of Tipex on its back.

So she knows.

What?

So she knows.

Well, how many spiders are there?

What do you think you'd kill it and then replace it out of guilt?

It's not like a budgie.

No, but you can sort of say, oh, I don't know, it's gone.

And then if one turns up again, he'll go, your spider's back.

Yeah.

But now she's marked it.

What's so hang on?

Well, that's weird.

It has a web underneath the telly.

It's always under the telly.

I don't think it bothers with a web.

But what do you mean she keeps a spider under the telly?

It's just there, and she's sort of like, it's not a problem.

They get rid of flies.

They're not dirty.

It just.

Well, it doesn't get rid of flies if it sits there watching coronation.

It does pretty much.

Honestly, it can be there in a corner.

I don't know what it does.

I don't know.

It just sits there.

But she likes the fact that it's there.

It's that thing, innit?

Of

older people like that.

I don't really.

They don't like change.

It's like part of the family.

You know, all the kids have left home now.

She's got this little spider with Tipx on its head.

I like the way that she went to a drawer.

She had an idea.

She was worried about it.

She was worried about her husband killing it.

I know.

This is for your own good.

Tip X pop that on you.

And you've been round there with the spider that doesn't freak.

Well, I'm going round this weekend, but I used to always sit on the floor to watch the telly.

Yeah.

Now it's like I'm not sitting on the floor.

You'd be watching Spider-Man, it would be criticising.

Well, that wouldn't happen.

What does your mum think of it?

Does she think it's like a little pet or she doesn't want to get rid of it?

I think it is a pet because, like, you know, she's had loads of cats, she's had dogs, she's got a budgie.

And now my dad's sort of saying, don't get any more pets because it means we can't go on holiday.

Right.

Spider can look after itself.

I love the idea.

Someone say, do you mind coming when we're on holiday for a week?

Do you mind coming round with a fly every two days?

Yeah, I just keep an eye on it.

I mean, I thought Spider Island was weird, but keeping a spider under the telly with Tipx on it as a pet.

I was watching a documentary about

Nazi Germany and everything.

And I just realised that I felt guilty for quite a while because

whenever I see a programme about the Nazi plan,

I always take a certain solace.

Like, I'm slightly smug, but I know I'd have been okay

because I'm tall and blonde,

almost blue-eyed.

Yeah.

Pretty much fully functioning, except the eyes are a bit poor.

The Aryan race.

And that's what they were after, wasn't it?

The sort of Superman, the Aryan.

What do you mean?

Well, Steve would have been the Aryan pin-up.

Yeah, I'm like a kind of poster boy for Nazi Aryan boy.

You want to have been a pin-up?

No, but you know,

certainly I'd have been maybe not on the posters, but I'd certainly have been down the recruitment office

signing people out there to say we want you to look like this.

So what do you think, so so Steve goes they go, okay, we want someone tall, blonde hair, blue eyes.

Someone goes, I know the person.

He's not only, he's really tall, he's got really sort of

striking eyes and is quite blonde.

And they go, get him here.

What do you think?

He walks in.

Hitler sees him.

All the generals go, Hitler would love me.

Do you want everyone to look like this?

Thoughts, Carl?

If you turned up, they'd go, hang on a minute, this doesn't match.

What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

No way.

No way.

I am an ideal Nazi.

I think someone would sort of go, hang on, I think there's been a mistake here.

No, that's products.

That is absolute nonsense.

I guarantee that I would have been one of the most popular Nazis.

Did they stick with that?

Did they sort of, was that the rule?

Or did they see someone like you and go, hang on, we need a lot more on this list?

Because I've just seen something out there that ticks all the boxes and it's a little bit a little bit off

no well do you know what you can laugh because but you what would they have made of you you'd have been straight against a warmate no but I'd been alright because I'm but Hitler was a bit like me wasn't he yeah you just about five eight dark hair I mean he made me laugh Hitler doesn't make many people laugh but no no but do you know what I mean he's going oh we've got to have a blonde I go hold on whoa Adolph take a look at yourself son do you know what I mean yeah but he was just you know he was aspiring to something more like me.

Well, at least dye your hair.

Why don't you just at least peroxide it?

If I said, Hitler, we've got to do this image, right?

Because people are laughing at you.

Because you're going around saying you want tall, blonde-aired,

blue-eyed fellas, and you're a little short,

brown-eyed,

black-headed fella, right?

First of all, okay, put these contact lenses in.

Little blue contents.

Oh, look at that.

Your eyes pop.

Lovely.

Okay.

Let's dye your hair, peroxide that.

Maybe, you know, like Dave Sylvian, give him a little quiff.

Okay?

Now some heel-ups in his shoes.

Yeah, some Cuban heels, some high, maybe high heels.

Right, now go out there.

Now go out there.

That would have been an extraordinary look if he had if that was the man that we knew and feared, giving those speeches.

Peroxide hair, Cuban heels.

Imagine I'd have been out of I'd have found Anne Frank in a second, just passing by here in the top window in the attic window.

He would have gone to, yeah, he'd have gone, lads, don't bother going inside.

Go, look at this, get a ladder.

Here she is.

Typing.

Yeah.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, Carl.

I'm just saying that, you know, one can have these guilty thoughts.

Only those things that I've said where I get an urge to slap a kid or something.

When did this hurt?

It's just little things like that.

The other day I was in the park and there was a goose just sat on the edge of the pond and I just wanted to run up and kick it.

It's because you're not allowed and it's there and it's almost like going, come on.

You just want to give it a little boot.

And it's the same with babies.

Sometimes you just want to slap their head.

Not hard.

Oh, God.

But I'd say that's the weird thing.

Everybody gets an air pulse when he sees you.

I don't have anything where I sort of, you know, want to be German or something.

That's too.

I'm not saying I want to be German.

I'm saying I feel guilty because when I see those things, I think, oh, I'd have been okay.

Yeah.

What would you have done though?

Do you reckon you'd have helped out or you'd have kept quiet, just done your bit?

I'd like to think I'd be one of those people who would have pointed and said, no, you can't be doing this.

This is out of order.

But I know in my heart, I probably would have just kept stumbling.

Because

I'd have liked the.

Oh, he's already talking German.

I'd like the uniforms.

I'd have just kept me head down.

Well, you might have had to to survive.

I just

think I'm living in the best time for me.

I think if it was about, you know, ages ago or something, it wouldn't have been right.

I think I'd just been lucky.

But if you were in one of those situations, whether it be Nazi Germany or anywhere else, where you see oppression going on, horrors, would you stand up and fight for justice, put your own neck on the line, or would you just keep quiet?

What do you mean, keep your neck?

What do you mean?

Well, this is, you know, this is the thing, for instance.

If I knew Anne Frank was in my loft,

well, yeah, perfect.

Yes, would you?

If you knew Anne Frank was in your loft

and your dad came in and went, right, whatever you do, don't harbor any Jewish people.

The Nazis are right.

Also, they're looking for spiders under tellies.

You and your mum sort of looked at each other.

So

what would you do?

You met a little German fella.

Ah, young Carl.

It's a little round-headed.

I'll probably just go, I don't know.

I don't know who's up there.

Well, we are checking, and if we find her, then you.

Well, it's ridiculous, Real.

Well, what do you think, though?

Of course, it was a threat of death if you harboured someone.

That was why it was so heroic.

Sorry, could we just have this conversation played out, please, Rick?

You're the German.

Hello, Carl.

How are you?

Yeah, I'm alright.

You're losing your hair.

I'm quite a sort of once I get to sleep because of my restless legs and that, I'm normally pretty tired, so I'm out of the light.

If I came round, could I look in the attic and if I find anyone?

Yeah, I've got to go out.

I mean, well, I'll tell you now.

If I go on and find someone, I will I will kill you.

I don't know if anyone's up there.

I've once said it's his job.

I'd say, you go and have a look.

You don't say that, you're meant to be protected now.

Just say you say that.

No, you've got to get him off the scene.

I'd say, no, she's not there.

I'll just check.

Don't worry about that.

Listen, I wouldn't lie to you.

He'd say, but this is the point, Cole.

Are you willing to put your life on the line for someone else?

And I think fundamentally...

Not for her.

I'm not sure.

Why for her?

She's got her whole life to live.

She's a talent.

She's writing.

You're not doing anything.

What are you doing?

Staring at her.

She's innocent.

More like she's innocent.

I'd say, what?

I'd say, Anne, I'd go up.

Anne.

Yeah.

Listen, they've been again.

I think you should move out because this is sort of dragging.

It's stressing me out.

They keep knocking.

I'm going to get dragged down with you.

So can you move out of the loft now?

You've been here a few weeks.

But that's...

It's no sort of life, Anne.

You've been up here.

You might as well be some sort of moth.

There's no light.

You're sat there writing.

So I don't know what you're writing.

You've been up here for weeks.

What are you writing about?

I've kept a diary, and it's a bit of a struggle.

You haven't been out.

So, can you just move, please?

That's what you do, is it?

I don't know how much you meant to do.

But this is the point, isn't it, Kyle?

It's about what are you willing to do?

People, during that time, protected people at their own expense, at their own personal risk.

They went through, they lied, they got food, they forged documents for them, they tried to sneak them out of the country, they did incredible acts of heroism to help other people.

And you're doing nothing.

You're going to kick her out on the other side.

You're adding to it.

You're adding to it.

All I'm saying is, I'd say, Anne, I think they think you're up here now.

I think it's best if you move on.

I don't think you'd have welcomed her in for Christmas.

I can't leave here.

Well,

I'll tell you what, I think he's finding something a bit suspicious and he's going to come up.

So I have warned you, Anne, don't moan.

I'd leave her to it.

And then if you'd turn up again, I'd go and have a look.

Well, no, because then you'll still get done.

I won't get done.

You've harboured her now.

You've harboured her now.

You're in trouble.

So either go through with it and protect her or stitch her up and get yourself out out of her.

What are you going to do?

I'd say, right, Anne.

Listen.

Go on.

You've had one conversation.

She's not listening to you.

She's busy.

She's writing.

Anne.

How are you getting up there?

It's just a little, what's it ladder?

What are they called?

A loft ladder.

Yeah, a loft ladder, I think.

Right,

give it a bang.

Right.

Hang on a minute, she says, stop at writing.

What do you want?

Well,

what are you dagger?

Carl, what are you doing?

I go, I'm talking to Anne.

Who?

Anne Frank.

Who's Anne Frank?

The woman in the loft.

Well,

well, you're not harbouring Jewish people, are you?

I don't know what she is.

She's just up there all the time.

I didn't know she was Jewish.

Yeah.

I didn't know she was Jewish.

You know, I just thought she'd just be there.

I'm talking about my mum and it's my mum and dad's house.

Yeah.

I'm younger.

Yeah.

There's a woman in the loft.

It's just the norm.

It's just the norm.

Well, it must have been with all the Jewish people about.

How should you get one must have had a Jew in the loft?

Who's

Jew?

But you

like getting it last.

What's interesting, though, is that you've deliberately massaged this now to absolve yourself of responsibility.

Suddenly, you made yourself a kid, and it's not your responsibility.

We are asking you, the adult Carl Pilt Pilkington.

Adult Carl Pilkington, are you willing to put your neck on the line?

And you're

a...

Suzanne brings up someone and go, right, they're being persecuted.

They're after, right?

The mob.

Okay, forget.

No, that's alright.

Someone's after, right?

They've just put out, I said, look, we've got to hide her.

If they find her, they kill all three of us.

Right, can we hide her here, Carl?

I've obviously got nowhere to go.

Let's at least take the risk.

Well, let's set some rules.

Go on, then.

Right.

How long are you going to be in the loft for?

It might be a year.

It's a long time, though.

I know, but quick, quick, they're coming.

They're coming.

Quick, quick.

In here, right, in here.

Right?

Right, Carl, do you answer the door and go, she's in here, boys?

Or do you go?

Just let's go in the loft a minute.

Okay, okay, she's in the loft.

Okay.

Hello.

Hi.

I'm going to kill you and your girlfriend.

okay, unless you tell me now, is there someone in your loft?

Yes or no?

Not that I know of.

I'm going to check in a minute.

Wait, wait, wait.

What do you mean not that you know?

Another one.

What do you say not that you know of?

I am going to go and check in the loft.

Are you happy for me to check in the loft?

I can't stop you, can I?

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We want a yes or no, son.

Right.

Well, what if I said no?

What would happen?

Well, we would storm in and if we found anyone up there, we would presume you knew they were up there and we would shoot you.

Seems a bit unreasonable.

So, what I'd say is, I'd say, it's weird you mentioned that, because there has been a bit of banging about in the loft, but I think it's coming from next doors.

Have you been next door yet?

No, we haven't.

You've got to go around there.

All right, mate.

Cheers, mate.

No problem.

Right.

Shut the door.

And then that'd be that.

I mean, it's well, there seems worse.

Yeah, make it seem worse back then, but that's what age does to things, isn't it?

People add bits on and all that.

So you think.

Well, you know, the close to truth to the story is

just a woman.

woman.

She did a diary and she bummed about in people's lofts without paying for stuff.

It's like what do you call them?

What do you call them?

When you get people living in houses.

Yeah, she's basically just a squatter with a diary.

Unbelievable.

That is the worst

thing I've ever

heard anyone say.

Unbelievable.

Carl, we've been doing this for a long time and we're struggling for stuff.

We ripped off Room 101 last week, called it Room 102.

You've done rock hustles.

No, exactly, yeah.

So, have you heard Desert Island Discs?

Yeah.

Good, let's do that.

Right, forget the eight records, we can't play them anyway.

We can't play them anyway.

I know, but for people who are listening in other countries, they may not be familiar with Desert Island Discs.

Oh, it's a programme, it's a real national institution here.

They get

prime ministers and leaders of men and really eminent people to go on.

And you talk about your life and you choose um your eight favourite um tunes um you uh you take uh a luxury item and um you're allowed to take uh any book.

I did it.

I I I was

very um very privileged and and honoured and very flattered to be asked to do it myself

last year.

Um

apparently uh they said what book would you take?

and she went,

you get the Bible.

I went, well, good.

I wanted to take toilet paper then.

And I took a book,

I think a tabletop book of art.

Why would you take that?

Oh,

you can't take anything that's useful.

It's just, you know, it's, you know, it's a luxury item.

You can't.

I took a vat of Novocaine.

I thought, if I get toothache, I'm sipping on that till I die.

If I'm stuck here with nothing to do, I've got eight records.

I'm going to be sick of them.

That's the thing.

I'm looking at art.

At least I'm looking at something, you know.

What book would you take, though?

Well, I wouldn't take an art book anyway.

I know that.

Right, okay, so come on in.

One book, you're going to get sick of it.

One book.

You can't get sick of art either.

You can.

You can.

You can have a brilliant picture on your wall, but eventually, remember what I've said to you.

Your eyes get bored of anything.

I don't remember him saying that.

I think I blanked out.

I think he came in one ear, straight out the other.

Well, that's why relationships break up, because the eyes get sick of looking at that other person, and you go, Me eyes want to change.

That's what it's all about.

Me eyes want the change.

Okay, sorry, love.

Fucking hell, choose a book.

I'd probably take a dictionary or something.

Oh, that's ridiculous.

Why would you take a dictionary?

Just because I'm not that good with words.

But why do you want words for?

You're not talking to anyone anymore.

You don't have to worry about the vocabulary.

You have to worry about.

Oh, but you're not going to be able to do it.

There'd be a lot of talking to yourself, probably.

It'd be nice to sort of talk about it.

Oh, so you're going to bring yourself up on your grammar, are they?

You're talking to yourself and you go, oh, Carl, you're an idiot.

You don't say it like that.

Well, if you've got to talk to yourself, it'd be nice to have.

Why are you talking to yourself, you maniac?

There's no one else about.

You don't open your mouth and actually verbally talk in order to talk about it.

But also, what does it matter if you've got a dictionary or not?

Who's arguing with who?

Because sometimes I feel frustrated when I don't, I can't get my point across.

But it's just you.

Exactly.

You're annoying me.

So you're getting annoyed now.

You're annoyed with me because I can't explain what I mean.

Yeah.

I don't want to be annoying myself.

Why don't you be annoying yourself?

But you'll already understand your point.

You don't need to vocalise it.

Sometimes I think through what I'm saying.

Yeah.

And I think, does that make sense?

And sometimes I'll go, no, it doesn't.

And I'll go, why is that?

And then you're working out in your head.

Now, if I've got a better vocab, I'll have a good little chat.

Have a good little what?

With yourself.

Carl, you're already on.

On a desert island.

You've got there, you're not reading the Bible, you get a dictionary out.

So you get a better vocab so you can have a decent chat with yourself.

What are you saying?

It becomes a point if you're not keeping yourself interested in anything, your brain is going to turn to mush.

Now,

I'm teaching my brain stuff, keeping it active.

The only thing you've got on the island is your imagination and your thoughts.

Now, if you can make those imaginations and thoughts better,

which you do with language, you're going to have a better time, aren't you?

Well, no, a thought is never restricted in your own brain by vocabulary, is it?

Of course it is.

Well, no, if you've had the thought, you've had the thought.

You don't go, hold on.

I'd have a thought here, but I can't think of the word.

You don't think in language in that same way, do you really?

You think more conceptually.

When someone came up, oh, guess what?

I've just found the cure for...

Oh, I can't believe the word.

What?

I've just worked out the cure for A.

I can't think of the word.

Let's look at...

What is it?

Cancer.

No, but just to think...

Language is a powerful thing, isn't it?

Yeah.

He's went out of words.

You see, this is what I'm saying.

It's sometimes difficult for me to get my point across with what I mean.

Yeah, but that's fair enough if you're communicating, say, in this environment.

And it's, dare I say it, perhaps a shame that you didn't read a dictionary before we started doing the podcast and all the broadcasting.

But anyway, you've waited here on a desert island with no well

around.

Well, no, no.

I think by then, well, by the time you get shipwrecked, there will probably be a few more entries to the dictionary.

Grippage.

Foodage.

Rumminging.

Replenishing.

So what?

All words are made up.

Orange.

One day, someone went, what?

He's got a head like something.

He's got a head like a fucking what?

I don't even know what.

He's got a head like a fucking what?

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Let's make up a word.

It looks like a

orange.

Like a fucking red.

No, orange.

And the other thing is, say if I am captured.

By who?

Who?

What?

By who?

By a boat that's passing.

Oh, you're captured?

You mean saved?

Alright, saved then, yeah.

Okay, if I'm saved, there you go again, you see.

I went for captured instead of saved.

You captured by some pirates.

Talking Talking to anyone, Carl, in your head, it didn't matter.

You knew what you meant.

When you sat there on that desert island, you thought, oh, if I'm captured by a boat, they didn't come over and go, hi, Carl, we've come to save you.

You wouldn't go, well, no, I don't want saving, I want capturing.

Okay, right, sorry, wait for the next boat.

It didn't matter.

You knew what you meant.

You'd go, help, and you'd get on the boat.

Do you think in words that you don't use?

Unless you're specifically thinking about something you're going to say, maybe because we're doing some writing or whatever, we're not thinking in words, are you?

You don't wander around thinking, ah, today I feel so, oh, I don't know what the word is.

Extremely worth it.

You know, you just feel, you experience, you think.

You're not thinking logically about words and sentence structure and all those other things.

That's not how you operate.

So if you're on a desert island having these arguments

unless you're schizophrenic.

You've only got yourself for company.

Don't bore yourself.

What's the point?

What is the point?

Seriously.

How are you going to...

So you think you're going to read that dictionary and you're going to be better company?

Because you're going to be impressing yourself with longer words.

You're going to go.

Well, why do people use big words?

Because

they can,

but also to impress themselves.

I bet they slow down.

They don't want to impress themselves, impress others.

If a boat passes and they go, there's a fella over there on the island that's gone get him.

Now, the way I am at the moment, they'd go, you're right, and I'd go, you are, and they'd go, don't stop.

Where?

Imagine that.

Whereas if I sort of say something with a big word that I can't think of right now, they'll go, oh, who's that?

He sounds like he knows his.

You who?

Anti-disaster libertarianism.

Get him on this boat now.

We must wait with the third of the boats.

All right, you get him.

But then I'm on the news and they go, oh, Carl, what was it, Mike, on the island?

And I can start saying stuff.

It was scrandarious.

No, but then I think it makes it more interesting.

Whereas at this moment in time, I'd struggle to tell them what it is.

I like the idea of you trying to educate.

I hate the idea.

Do it now.

Because there's so many other books.

If I'm stuck with one.

Okay, the dictionary.

You've got a dictionary.

What's your luxury item?

What's your luxury item?

Quick.

Let's get off this island.

Come on.

What did you take for your luxury?

A vat of Nova Cane.

Some revels.

A big sort of bag.

Big bag of revels.

A big bag of revels.

Just for the variety.

Well, there's no variety, particularly in revels.

They're all chocolate, are they?

No, all different.

You've got orange ones, you've got coffee, caramel, maltizer.

That's it.

That's your luxury.

sorry is this podcast sponsored by rebels i mean second novocane isn't great is it if you don't get toothache you'll be going why aren't they bringing rebels

thank you for listening i mean you are martyrs saints and martyrs to have listened to this all these years so that's it from us um why don't you start again go back to the beginning and listen to all of them the back catalogue five series.

See if you can find one wise word from Carl Pilkington.

And if you listen to this in the future,

I'll tell you what.

The world's gone downhill.

No, it'll just be different.

I don't think it'll go downhill.

It's just going to change and things are going to be different.

We've talked about fat people.

Is that a bad thing?

Mammoths were fat,

weren't they?

Yeah.

Then they died out, then you get the ice age, and then this has happened.

It's all going to happen again.

That's what's going to happen.

Brilliant.

You just decided that now.

Definitely.

Well, that's what happens, isn't it?

A weed.

A weed grows out of a crack.

Put a weed killer on it.

Two weeks later, it's back again.

That's what the world's like: a big weed.

We're just a weed in the universe.

Good night, everybody.