E882 - Traitors w/ Derrick, Bach w/ Alli Jo, Paige & Craig, LVP Talks James Kennedy, and Super Bowl Recap

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Speaker 1 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Valfiles Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick.
The Super Bowl happened last night. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 I'm wearing Valentine's Day socks. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Cute.

Speaker 3 It's Valentine's Day week.

Speaker 4 I love the little heart.

Speaker 3 Did you know it was Valentine's Day week, honey?

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I sure did.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 On Friday. Sounds convincing.

Speaker 1 There'll be hugs and flowers.

Speaker 3 You know, I made you a basket, a Valentine's Day basket.

Speaker 1 And I got you flowers, but like, we'll be traveling and I have to reschedule those flowers. I already ordered the flowers.

Speaker 1 I've already curated your basket, but a basket has like so many different things in it.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's no basket for you.

Speaker 3 There's still time.

Speaker 1 is this like a stocking stuffer?

Speaker 3 Kind of, it's a Valentine's Day basket, it's like an Easter basket, Valentine's Day basket. Just go to Target.

Speaker 4 I was walking through Target the other day, and the way that they have multiple aisles of the cutest little Valentine's Day gifts, and I'm like, it really is so easy.

Speaker 3 It also is so easy because Nick, it could be so easy.

Speaker 3 Nick has a running wish list in his notes app that we both share access to, and it's there's no stocking stuffer ideas in there, but is there a bag perhaps that could fit in a stocking?

Speaker 1 Maybe

Speaker 1 there's a pair of like shoes.

Speaker 5 Like a couple of

Speaker 3 earrings that could peck away easily.

Speaker 3 Yeah, a pair of.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to give the Philadelphia Eagles a congratulatory shout-out. You know, good for them.
They won the Super Bowl. And I say this as someone who really hates them.

Speaker 3 I was rooting for them.

Speaker 4 I was rooting for them too. I didn't watch.

Speaker 1 But credit to them and their fans. You know, shout out to their fans.
If you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan, it really was like a dream season. You guys were the best team pretty much the whole year.

Speaker 1 So, congrats to you guys. And Nick Siriani, though, honestly, if you don't know anything about the Philadelphia, he's their coach,

Speaker 1 he's a good-looking guy, yeah. He's been known to argue with his players, argue with fans, argue with some of the coaches.
He's definitely in like in some circles, like an easy guy to like critique.

Speaker 3 Okay, I was gonna say, because that sounds not so hot.

Speaker 1 Some people thought they were that's cool, some people thought he didn't get fired, but I gotta say, at the end of the game, really presented Family Man.

Speaker 1 Listen, I always respect someone who has a lot of critics who says, Fuck you, the noise, and comes out on top. And he very much did.

Speaker 3 Did you know that Jalen Hurts, he's the quarterback for the Eagles, he is hot.

Speaker 1 He,

Speaker 3 since not last year, but the year before when they lost in the Super Bowl against the Chiefs, there's like a famous picture of him that went viral of him walking off the field with the like red and gold confetti like falling everywhere.

Speaker 3 And it's him just as a loser.

Speaker 1 They lost.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not a, you know,

Speaker 3 they lost the game. And he's like walking off the field.
And he said that that photo was his, has been his wallpaper up until yesterday.

Speaker 1 On his phone? Yeah. Like this motivation.

Speaker 4 Yeah. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he just thought he looked hot.

Speaker 3 I think it was like a motivation time, I think.

Speaker 1 He was like,

Speaker 4 he was like, damn, even when I lost, I looked good.

Speaker 4 And then he wasn't, you know, who wasn't in Abbott Elementary? Any of the Chiefs? That's all I'll say about that.

Speaker 3 How do you think Taylor Swift handled Travis's

Speaker 3 loss?

Speaker 3 Like, what do you think her technique is?

Speaker 1 I think she handled it as well as she got booed.

Speaker 1 She did get booed. But I will, and in Taylor's defense, I think it was, I would think it was heavily Eagles fans.
So that's what it seemed like. Like Eagles fans were booing the Chief fan.

Speaker 1 I don't think this was like people booing Taylor Swift. Could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Speaker 3 If Taylor Swift can sit through half of a stadium booing her and she can just sit there and take that, like I can take anything that comes my way.

Speaker 1 So how do you think Taylor consoles Trav? Yeah.

Speaker 3 I asked you because you're like the one who I have my technique with you and that's duct tape my mouth shut.

Speaker 1 I think you give them time. Yeah.
I think you, the worst thing,

Speaker 1 I will never forget this flood I got in with, like, one of like a first girlfriend who thought, like, and she wasn't trying to console me. She was trying to irritate me.

Speaker 1 It was after the Packers lost to the Philadelphia Eagles fourth and 22.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Packers, it was fourth and 22. All they had to do was stop fourth and 22, and they didn't.
The Eagles won that game.

Speaker 1 And right afterwards, she was like hanging on me and just thought she could make it all better.

Speaker 3 Wasn't she like, why won't you hug me? Like, touch me.

Speaker 1 Why won't you hug me? Like, am I,

Speaker 1 why am I not enough? You know, up time.

Speaker 1 Because you're not. You're not.
Because you don't play defense.

Speaker 1 You're a 280-pound blood vanpacker.

Speaker 4 If Taylor really wanted to help Travis, she would have gotten on the field because I know she can run laps around them. You know what she does on those stadiums?

Speaker 1 I hope she doesn't go home, turn on, shake it off, and say, and start dancing in the love of their living room.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I doubt she would.
But I did see the video of him walking into her suite after, and he looked so sad.

Speaker 1 He looked good, though. He did.

Speaker 3 And that's very handsome.

Speaker 1 There were a lot of people.

Speaker 4 The hair's flowing. I did see some funny.

Speaker 6 He actually looks better sad.

Speaker 1 You think? Yeah. Do you think Jason is sad for retiring a year too early? I mean, his brother beat him two years ago in the Super Bowl.
Then last year, his team barely even made the playoffs.

Speaker 1 And then he lost in a very kind of tragic end of the year for the Eagles. And sometimes

Speaker 3 people say, like, maybe they wouldn't have won if Jason would have been there. Like, maybe everything was perfect the way that it was.

Speaker 1 And throwing a little like that. Well, they did win by a lot.

Speaker 4 I think if I was Jason Kelsey and I got to just sit back and watch my boys beat my brother, that would be really fun.

Speaker 1 Did they ask Jason

Speaker 1 who he would be rooting for? Did he say? I'm sure. I'm assuming somewhere in the 5,000 questions he's been asked, he didn't say.

Speaker 1 Would it not be the Chiefs? You would think his brother, but

Speaker 1 he played his whole career with the Eagles.

Speaker 1 It's not his brother's team.

Speaker 4 Oh, he said, I would be lying if I said I don't want the Eagles to win. I want them to.
But I also want Travis Kelsey to win. So that's a long-winded way of saying, I just want a good football game.

Speaker 4 And whoever wins, I'm going to be happy for that guy. It wasn't really that good of a football game.

Speaker 1 It was kind of a big one. It was a shitty football game.
We started watching Trade.

Speaker 1 We finished Traders.

Speaker 3 But did you see the Google Pixel commercial?

Speaker 7 Which one was that one?

Speaker 3 It was when the dad was like applying for a job. And he was like, it was like to AI or something, like Google Pixels AI.
And it was like, what is the hardest job that you have ever had?

Speaker 3 And he like explains parenting. And it's like, what was the most rewarding thing you learned from that job? And it's about parenting.
And it's like, and how have you worked as a team?

Speaker 3 And it's about parenting. And it was just like, so.
And he had like the, the girl, and he had like a little girl and she like grew up and she went to college.

Speaker 3 And he was like, being able to depend on people who also depend.

Speaker 1 Well, speaking of AI commercials, I really hated the Martha Stewart.

Speaker 1 Dancing sketchers hated that. How did Martha approve that? That was not giving grace and sophistication.
Wow.

Speaker 7 I like to think the approval was a good paycheck.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I feel like most of the commercials were AI for the Super Bowl. It was terrible.

Speaker 1 It was so gross.

Speaker 3 Some of them were just like two people face to face. I don't even know if the Snoop Dogg Tom Brady won.
I was like, is this AI?

Speaker 3 These two people don't look like they're in the same room together.

Speaker 4 It just is like really depressing. Super Bowl commercials used to mean something.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know what I mean? They never meant anything, but they were better.

Speaker 3 No, do you remember that Bud Light? one with the horses.

Speaker 1 Oh, with the horses. Oh, and the dogs.

Speaker 1 No, there was a lot of good Bud Light.

Speaker 3 No, that one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Bud Light always fixed off the PC commercial. It was an all-time.

Speaker 3 Did they have one this year, The Bud Light? I didn't know. I don't know.
I was trying to skip through to get to currently in the football game, and Nick wouldn't allow me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was like, the commercials used to be for you.

Speaker 1 I put River to bed. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 And we pressed pause

Speaker 1 on the game when I put River to bed. And then River's asleep.
We're about 12 minutes behind the game. We're talking to no one.
No one's on their phone.

Speaker 1 And now they felt the need to catch up fast forward to real time.

Speaker 1 I was like, who are we catching up with? It's just us. It's just you and I.
Like, you have a burning desire to get on Twitter? Like, and check the.

Speaker 1 She wanted to fast forward, like, skip all the commercials, skip all the players. Everyone was.

Speaker 3 I felt like everyone else knew what was happening and we didn't.

Speaker 1 And who were you texting with about the game? Nobody. It was just an inner problem.
It was an inner problem. You knew.
Yeah. It was triggering.
Lottery.

Speaker 1 Almost as triggering as Craig's appearance on Watch What Happens Live.

Speaker 3 We don't want to talk Kendrick Lamar's boot cut flare jeans.

Speaker 1 I loved them. Oh, yes.
Let's go back.

Speaker 6 I did not like the jeans.

Speaker 1 Am I supposed to be wearing these in a year?

Speaker 3 You guys, he's five foot two. They made him look taller.
He's a short guy. And that's why he's absolutely like his body.

Speaker 1 Okay, so this is not like

Speaker 1 a cultural, like, hey, change up baggy pants or, you know, we had skinny jeans. Now I have to go boot cut.

Speaker 4 I wouldn't say those are baggy. That's just, that's a, that's a good, tight-fitting boot cut.

Speaker 1 Again, that's my concern. I, I, I've just recently transitioned into

Speaker 1 the jean, honey.

Speaker 3 I don't think Kendrick Lamar

Speaker 3 is giving us the next fashion trend.

Speaker 1 I think he's just doing what works for him. Okay, but like artists, musical artists

Speaker 1 tend to start trends.

Speaker 4 I think that him calling out Drake like that in those jeans is the best thing that could ever happen. Like if your biggest hater wears a boot cut flare and everyone cheers for him for your demise.

Speaker 4 It's going to be hard for you to come back. It's really hard for you to come back.

Speaker 1 Why do we care about Drake and Lamar fighting? I mean, I know they've been fighting it's yeah it's like one of the biggest rap beefs that have happened in eight years and that was like a full year

Speaker 1 yeah his diss track his diss track won a grammy okay he called drake a pedophile and everyone like cheered drake is suing drake a pedophile well allegedly allegedly

Speaker 4 and according to the grammys and the and the

Speaker 4 nfl golden globes and the golden globes what was it what that that they saying like everybody oh the grammys you're right yeah the grammys everyone in the recording academy went a minor and they literally during kendrick's performance they unmuted the audience during that line so you could hear everyone in the stadium yell a minor that was a good performance yes right

Speaker 6 he also wore a necklace with a lowercase

Speaker 4 and he cheesed so hard when he said hey drake yeah and he brought both of his ex-girlfriends out Yep.

Speaker 6 I watched this performance and I was like, okay,

Speaker 8 great.

Speaker 8 And then I really thought about it.

Speaker 1 That's a lot of energy focused on Drake. To be honest.

Speaker 4 He's a true hater.

Speaker 1 Drake tried.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Drake tried and got demolished.

Speaker 3 But he also is like suing the production company that is that like put out the Kendrick Lamar. Isn't it his own record label?

Speaker 1 It's like his record label. Yeah.

Speaker 3 He's suing them for basically being like.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But not Kendrick Lamar.

Speaker 3 So did he, did he lie?

Speaker 1 Or not? Exactly.

Speaker 3 About what? Because he's suing, I think, the record label or something for defamation or something, but he's not suing Kendrick Lamar, who actually said the things that you would be suing for.

Speaker 1 Well, it doesn't his record, I mean, you would sue him.

Speaker 3 Would you not sue the person that's directly along with the record label?

Speaker 1 Is Kendrick Lamar? I mean, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know how it works.

Speaker 3 My point of saying is Kendrick Lamar did not lie because you have nothing to sue him.

Speaker 1 Isn't he suing his label? He's suing the label for

Speaker 1 money.

Speaker 3 For money, exactly.

Speaker 4 Okay, well, Drake's hiding in Australia right now, where Kendrick is on stage at the Super Bowl. So I think we know who won.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Game over.

Speaker 1 Well, I can move on with this week now.

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Speaker 7 Well, Paige and Craig, Craig is also moving on, allegedly, according to him.

Speaker 1 He doesn't want to be nothing. I was very triggered by this.
I was. I really feel for Craig.

Speaker 1 For those of you who don't know, Craig went on Watch What Happens Live last Thursday and was asked by Andy Cohen about his breakup with Paige, specifically asked about the accusations that Kyle and Amanda threw Craig's way about not quote-unquote sticking up for Paige amidst the accusations that Paige has moved on too quickly quickly from Craig, a la like allegations about cheating and things like that.

Speaker 1 And this was Craig's response. Just podcast, she was clear.
She never cheated physically or emotionally. Do you co-sign that?

Speaker 9 I'm just, I'm grieving. I don't want to be involved.

Speaker 1 Like, you are involved.

Speaker 9 No, I'm not. I got broken up with.

Speaker 1 I'm the ex-boyfriend.

Speaker 9 I'm the ex-boyfriend now moving on with my life. Okay.

Speaker 9 I'm not going to get sucked into the mud with them. Like her cast, like commenting on how I'm grieving and that I'm sorry that I'm not reading Reddit every day and getting on there and defending her.

Speaker 9 Like, I never said you cheated, so I'm not a part of this.

Speaker 1 Amanda chimed in to say you should have

Speaker 1 defended Paige

Speaker 1 against the cheating rumors, but instead sent the dogs after her because you like sympathy.

Speaker 9 Because Paige lied on her podcast and said the breakup was mutual.

Speaker 1 I like that, I didn't tell her what to say.

Speaker 9 I got a text and she said, I'm announcing it on my podcast. And then she said it was mutual, which it wasn't.
I didn't know about it. She called me and told me.

Speaker 9 And she said,

Speaker 9 Yeah, that was pretty much. I mean, it's been a whirlwind, but yeah.
So I've been sitting in it listening to people be like, Love isn't enough. Guess what? Love is enough.

Speaker 9 And I hate that I'm being drug into that. If two people love each other, you'll make it work.
And for all the long-distance people watching, like,

Speaker 9 we didn't want different things. She just wanted other people, and that's fine.
Like, she didn't want those things with me anymore.

Speaker 9 And like, I'm not mad at her for that, but like, I don't like this love isn't enough thing because like you'll make it work.

Speaker 1 I really felt for the guy there. I agreed with everything he said, except for the love is enough part.

Speaker 1 But like I, when Craig was in that moment, like it were, it really brought me back to like having my heart broken.

Speaker 1 And I just think there's just not like, I also like compare this to the Rachel Coquinle and Matt James breakup of it all.

Speaker 1 And I find it to be like, not surprising, but like the audience's reaction to be

Speaker 1 again, not surprising, but like polar opposites from like ultimately, like, we just have two, two couples where two people broke up.

Speaker 1 Like one person decided they didn't want to be in a relationship with the other person. As far as we know, there's no infidelity and no like scandalous behavior.

Speaker 1 Like I get like, I totally get why Craig wasn't want to like jump up and like, you know, have his ex-girlfriend's back, but like I believe Paige.

Speaker 1 At the same time, and then like the Matt James breaks up with Rachel and we're acting as if like he's Matt James is on his way to Africa on a one-way ticket.

Speaker 1 He's been exiled from the United States because like pop culture nation and battle nation is

Speaker 1 eviscerating this guy because he didn't kind of go about it the right way.

Speaker 3 But they seemingly broke up for the exact same reasons. Like, Paige broke up with Craig because she didn't see her like settling and marrying him.

Speaker 3 And Matt broke up with Rachel because he said she had qualities that he didn't see in a wife. It's the exact same thing.
Yeah. And it's like Matt James is vilified and he's the breaker-upper.

Speaker 3 And Craig is being vilified and he's the one who got broken up with.

Speaker 1 And it's like, how did that happen? And I I get it. We're like, we listen to Rachel and she's like, you know, he broke up with me in Japan and I got on a plane.

Speaker 1 And then the next thing you know, like he's posting a prayer and everyone knows about it. And again, that was weird on Matt's part.
But like, imagine if Rachel was like, yeah, and like we broke up.

Speaker 1 And then the next thing you know, like I get a random text message from Matt being like, I'm announcing it on like one of the biggest podcasts in the nation and not asking, not checking in, just saying, I'm going to do this.

Speaker 1 And then you find out Matt James like decided to mention that it was a mutual breakup instead of the fact that he decided, like, instead, the truth was he was like, yeah, I just don't think your wife's material.

Speaker 1 Imagine the reaction we would all have. We would lose our fucking minds if that's what Matt James did to Rachel.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 6 Well, Paige and Craig broke up Thanksgiving time. And then he wasn't ready to announce or go public with it.
And she gave him the space and time.

Speaker 6 Yeah. They had been broken up for a while.
And then she saw a post where he seemed single. And so then she was like, okay, if he's going out looking single, like must be time to announce this.

Speaker 6 So she texted him and said that she was going to announce it on his pod, her podcast. And he didn't reply.

Speaker 4 He never responded.

Speaker 1 I don't think Paige anything wrong either. I mean, I guess.

Speaker 6 But I don't think that people are like vilifying Craig that much. Like, I think that people are vilifying both of them.
And if Paige is getting enough hate that she had, she wanted support from Craig.

Speaker 6 And I think that like, if they've been dating for long enough, it's like you still care about each other.

Speaker 6 Just because it's not going to work out doesn't mean that you didn't put in a lot of time in that relationship and have a lot of love for the person.

Speaker 6 So I just think that like it's not a crazy ask to be like, hey, I'm getting kind of killed out.

Speaker 1 I think it's a crazy ask.

Speaker 3 It's a crazy ask to be like, I need you to fight with trolls and Reddit people for me.

Speaker 1 Imagine if Matt James went to Rachel Curton after the breakup and said, can you like go? Again, his heart is, Craig's heart is broken.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't know if you've ever heard your heart broken or everyone listening who's had their heart broken, but when your heart is broken, when like someone that you were in your mind and with them at like not too long ago talking about a future with them, even if they were like mentally checked out and you didn't even realize, and then you find out that person just doesn't want to be with you, like, and I listen, no one's about like, hey, did you got to move on more than me?

Speaker 1 Because I'm someone who like struggled moving on from relationships, but I know the pain. it feels when like someone breaks your heart.
And Craig has to do this on a national fucking platform.

Speaker 1 And for all the people out there who are critiquing his Watch What Happens live performance and like appearance or in like December when he like, when he was allegedly broken up with Paige and like kind of talked as if they were still together, like if I'm in Craig's shoes when I was having my heart broken, I truly don't know how I would have handled it or what that would be like.

Speaker 1 Or like. I'm not saying he handled it perfectly, but like the man had a broken heart.

Speaker 1 And then Paige breaks up with him. And again, fine.
It doesn't sound like she was totally honest about like the fact. Okay, listen, I'm of the opinion, like two people break up, fine.

Speaker 1 And like, but if you're going to be the, if you're going to break someone's heart, then like you don't get to be the sympathetic partner or the party, you know, you don't, you don't.

Speaker 1 You kind of are the bad guy. You are.
Like, I don't think Paige should be criticized, but she broke someone's heart and she had the right to break their heart.

Speaker 1 But she, like, if she's going to go on a podcast and like not tell the truth, that is her spinning the the narrative on some level she is trying to control the narrative because she is trying to get sympathy in some way from her audience by not saying hey listen i just didn't want to be with him like she wasn't cold like she didn't give the matt james hey listen i just don't think your wife material she didn't go you know she was just like hey i don't want to be with you And he, she broke his heart.

Speaker 1 And she has the right to do that. But like, Paige decided to go out to a Philadelphia Eagles game very publicly.

Speaker 1 When I was in a public breakup, regardless, we were both happy to be out of that relationship.

Speaker 1 And nevertheless, we still decided to like hide for a couple months and be mindful of our behavior and be mindful of how we presented in public and who we were with because we just wanted to make it easy on ourselves and the other person.

Speaker 1 Paige decided not to do that. And she had every right not to do that.

Speaker 1 But she doesn't get to then demand Craig to have her back online when people start critiquing and like questioning who she's hanging out with.

Speaker 6 Okay, fair that Craig doesn't need to go scour Reddit, but when presented with the opportunity by Andy Cohen to squash the cheating rumors, he how does he know what she's doing?

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, no, but again,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 But to squash a cheating rumor is pretty easy. It's basically being like, no, she didn't cheat on me.
How does he know that?

Speaker 1 How does he know?

Speaker 3 And he also did say that he's like, I wasn't the one who said that you cheated. So therefore, I am taking myself out of this.
I have nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1 But I mean, I'm not saying she did anything, but like he doesn't know what the fuck she's been up to. And he feels like he was blindsided.

Speaker 1 Anytime someone blindsided with the breakup your first question is is there someone else is there another guy like i mean he said at the end of it she didn't want me she wanted someone else

Speaker 1 like you know i'm sure he's had thoughts and of like maybe men she's been kind of talking to she literally had the guy from s n l like in the fucking comments joking with her about like actually cheating and again we all thought it was funny because it was a guy from snl but if you're craig in that moment your heart is torn out it's like I'm just saying, like, I know what it's like to be in Craig's shoes.

Speaker 1 I don't think Paige did anything wrong. She has the right to do whatever the fuck she wants, but to sit there and expect Craig to defend her honor, I think is insanity.

Speaker 3 Right. Cause you could very easily say, I'm single and I can do whatever I want.

Speaker 1 She's clearly Paige's. And as she should, but like to sit there and have Kyle and Amanda, which love, you know, because they're great, but like that's, and have your girl's back.

Speaker 1 But like, Craig has every right to feel the way he does. And he has every right to just be like, that's her business.
I'm no longer in her life anymore.

Speaker 1 Like, do you think Paige checking in with Craig when she's out with another guy in public at a Phillies game? How's your heart, Craig? Just checking in?

Speaker 4 Like, I mean, I don't think they owe each other anything. I don't.
I don't think that Paige was asking this super huge, big thing of Craig just to like.

Speaker 1 She doesn't get to ask him anything. Nothing.
Yeah. Break up with him.

Speaker 4 I mean, I don't know. I don't disagree.
But I also think that Paige has to navigate this breakup differently than Craig does because of her role, because she is a woman online.

Speaker 4 And I think that, like, I don't know, I don't, I don't necessarily think that he owes her anything, but I think that when you are aware of the things that have been said about Paige, he could, and I'm not saying he has to, he could be like, you know what?

Speaker 1 Of course, he's fucked up. Of course, it would be the nice thing to do.
But, like, he has to be.

Speaker 4 He doesn't have to be nice.

Speaker 1 That's the thing. He doesn't have to be nice.
I don't think he's nice. But he did.

Speaker 3 He sat on Watch What Happens Live and he said, I never said she cheated. That is him defending defending her.
He said, I know, those words never came out of my mouth.

Speaker 3 I'm not involved with Reddit rumors. I'm not involved with TikTok journalists.
I never said that. So, like, take those rumors for what you will, but I wasn't a part of them.

Speaker 1 Fair enough.

Speaker 3 That's him defending her, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I don't think he's not nice for not saying more.

Speaker 1 You know, like, would he be extra nice if he went on and said, like, Paige would never, and she's got, you know, she's the greatest person in the world and like her character is like second to none.

Speaker 3 That would be the nicest thing, of course, course for but he's heartbroken and she's at an eagles game with another guy so like yeah but to suggest that he's not being nice because he's just minding his own fucking business and trying to move on because clearly this is a man who has his heartbroken well and he's also not going out of his way to say terrible things about paige no he's not you know what i mean so on this on the flip side you can even say it's balanced that you have austin making commentary on paige you've got kyle and amanda making commentary on on Craig, but he's not saying anything about Paige.

Speaker 3 He has not said that she's an awful person or that she deserves any of this. And when he did do his little story, he made it very clear that like, we split.

Speaker 3 I was a little blindsided by it, but like nobody deserves any hate. Please be kind to Paige.
Be kind to me.

Speaker 3 And like, what, what else, what else do you want him to say besides going on a daily PSA for his ex?

Speaker 1 I, I mean, like, watching last week's episode of Southern Charm, when he had like the sit-down with Shep and Austin and like Shep's mediating.

Speaker 1 Like, I really feel like I know where Craig's at in his life and I really feel for him. He's in this like transitional period, right? He is clearly outgrowing his friends.

Speaker 1 Like, so Shep and Austin are two guys who still like where they want to hang on to like all the boys get together three, four times a week, play, play golf, drink beers, you know, swap stories.

Speaker 1 And Craig's like, I want more. I want a family.
I want to settle down. I want to, I want to create a family.

Speaker 1 Like this is, he wants, like, and nothing's been more enjoyable in my life than creating a family, right? So I get where Craig's coming from. He's outgrowing his, like, his best friends in the world.

Speaker 1 He's outgrowing them.

Speaker 1 And then the person he wanted to outgrow them for decided to leave him and again she had every right to do that like people break up but like he's 40 years old he he very much feels like probably alone and on an island like you know i get you know it's like i'm sure he has his friends but that's not where he wants to be you know he really wants to be with this person who like you know didn't want to be with him and like she's right she didn't want to be with him i i mean i will say the only thing i disagree with is love is enough because it's not like there's nothing i learned more about relationships is that you do have to have a lot in common with your partner You have to enjoy doing things together on a regular basis.

Speaker 1 Everything can't be a compromise. Certainly not where you live.
Certainly not like how you raise your kids. Certainly not like when you want to start a family.

Speaker 1 Those are like what people call non-negotiables. And like those break up relationships all the time.
And so like I have learned the hard way because I used to be Craig.

Speaker 1 I used to be like, you can just muscle through love. And like, you have to like get along because like relationships in general are that hard.

Speaker 1 And even when you have so much in common, tons of compromises have to be made.

Speaker 1 And if you have to compromise all the time, every day about every little thing, like, I'm sorry, love just, love just is not enough.

Speaker 3 And like, you, you have to have the same timelines. It's like, I think that's why me and you worked the way that we did is because we both wanted the same things at the same time.

Speaker 3 And I think clearly we, we see Craig and Paige not wanting the same thing. Also, I think it's insane that people are reporting on him and Sally being at Nobu.
in

Speaker 3 New York and like trying to make it a thing. It's like

Speaker 3 it's a co-star.

Speaker 3 He's out to dinner with a fucking castmate, with an employee, with a co-worker.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Come on, people. And even watching this week's episode where Paige and Craig are talking, I'm watching it with my boyfriend.
He looks at me and he's like, so who's in the wrong here?

Speaker 1 And I go, literally neither.

Speaker 3 They're both 100% right because Paige is saying, hi, I'm 31 years old. I'm not ready to have kids and be settled down.
I don't see myself on a farm in Charleston. Okay.

Speaker 3 And then you've got Craig who's like, okay, well, like, when, when are you thinking? Can I get a timeline? I'm ready to have kids. I'm nearing 40.

Speaker 3 40 i want to be like active with my kids he's in the right too for saying i want to get married and have kids in the next two years and paige is in the right for saying i don't want those things so like neither one of them are a bad guy in this situation it's just unfortunate two people exactly as you said are just not on the same page the person your heart you're breaking you are the bad guy and you sure in every breakup Everyone wants to like, that's why they're like, it's not you, it's me.

Speaker 1 And that's why people say shit like that, because they don't want to feel like a dick. But you are breaking someone's heart.
You are. And then that's just like a tough fact of life.

Speaker 1 And Paige is breaking Craig's heart. And maybe Matt broke Rachel's heart.
And like they just, they're kind of the bad guy.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't think us publicly need to vilify those people, but like, I do think Paige is trying to like spin it just a little bit where she doesn't, like, so she's not the bad guy at all.

Speaker 1 Where like, and I don't think we should vilify her, but her saying it was a mutual breakup. What's Connor Shardy? If you're Craig with a broken heart, that feels a certain type of way.

Speaker 4 But does it feel better for her to go on her podcast and be like, yeah, I didn't want to be with him anymore, so I broke up with him?

Speaker 1 Was that your worst? There's no good.

Speaker 4 I mean, it's the truth, but like, could it be argued that she was trying to like

Speaker 1 spare her feelings but nothing?

Speaker 1 I do not think for a second when she made that lie, she was sparing anyone's feelings but her own. And that, because that's people.

Speaker 3 I also can't imagine like. Craig sitting at home and like getting a seeing a notification being like, oh, Craig and Paige break up mutual.
And he's like, what the fuck? No, it wasn't.

Speaker 1 Like, I didn't want to break up with her.

Speaker 3 I love her, you know?

Speaker 1 When you get your heart broken, yeah, you want that person to own own what they did to you. And if that, what they did to you is breaking your heart, you want them to own that.

Speaker 7 He also said on Watch What Happens Live, she made me promise not to break up weekly. And like that, Una reverse card is like wild.

Speaker 1 Like they would do like a pinky promise or something being like, Commissioner, she was with me. I mean, and that reverse card.

Speaker 1 I would chalk that. I would chalk that in the category of like people say shit in relationships.
That's Craig being a little petty and a little heartbroken.

Speaker 1 Which if I'm in Craig's shoes, I completely get why you said that. And if you're in Craig's shoes, you're

Speaker 1 relitigating everything that was said to you and everything that now feels like a lie.

Speaker 3 But that, like, she could have meant it at the time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure. Exactly.

Speaker 6 Well, exactly. Exactly.
Like, maybe it was a mutual breakup and he's just like, there's no way to know like what the actual truth is because he, he could have misremembered their conversation.

Speaker 6 She could be misremembering their conversation. Like she could not be doing this intentionally.
Like, I'm going to lie and make myself look better.

Speaker 6 It could just be that her perception of the breakup was that it was mutual because they were on different pages.

Speaker 1 That's insane, Leia. This conversation

Speaker 1 you what that's your you you think Paige just misremembered

Speaker 1 and thought and thought her breakup with Craig was mutual?

Speaker 6 Leia's saying to Paige it was mutual like to paid to Paige's perception was that it was the mutual breakup and that they were on different pages.

Speaker 1 That would be like if someone cheated.

Speaker 3 It's only mutual if they both come together and they both are like, we shouldn't be together.

Speaker 3 The man went on Watch What Happens Live knowing he was broken up claiming that they had Christmas plans together because he was

Speaker 1 a sexual breakup.

Speaker 6 So who's the liar in this situation?

Speaker 1 They both have

Speaker 1 You're comparing someone who didn't want to be in a relationship, who decided to leave the relationship, who decided to go on her podcast and announce the breakup, and then compared to someone who was going through a broken fucking heart, decided to fulfill his Watch What Happens live appearance shortly after his girlfriend broke up with him out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 And then because he didn't have a plan to talk about it publicly, you want to call him a liar and compare that to Paige?

Speaker 3 It's also like, I love Paige. I love Craig.
I loved them together. Clearly, they weren't going to work.

Speaker 1 But it's like, I love Paige too, but let's listen to it.

Speaker 3 A breakup is never, it's always going to be messy. Like, no matter what, it's always going to be messy.
Someone's going to feel hurt and someone's going to feel bad.

Speaker 3 So it's like, when there's no like kids, marriage kind of thing in there where it's like you have a reason to mutually break up, most likely in a relationship, there's one person who has one foot out the door and one person who has no idea.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But I'm just saying for the internet to be so one-sided about Rachel Kirk Connell and Matt James and then to be like on the fence about Paige and Craig and like some people taking Paige's side.

Speaker 1 People break up. People, it's like it's people break up.

Speaker 1 It's a relationship where they moved on and no one really did anything that wrong and like maybe didn't have the best approach to ending the relationship because there's no good approach.

Speaker 1 People break up. I want to be clear.

Speaker 6 I'm not calling Craig a liar. Not calling Craig a liar.
Just trying to add a little bit of devil's advocate here where it's like, we were not there when they broke up.

Speaker 6 And so we don't know all the intricacies and the details. And they could have different perceptions of how it went down and still be both speaking their truths.
And neither one of them could be lying.

Speaker 6 They could just have different perceptions of how it went down.

Speaker 1 If Paige, in fact, said, because I didn't listen to the episode, it was a mutual breakup. I mean, listen, you're right.
I wasn't there.

Speaker 1 I guess Craig could be lying through his teeth, but I'm going to go ahead and believe Craig on this one. Misremember.

Speaker 3 I'm just saying if it was mutual, then I'm sure we would have gotten some lame black screen white text on both pages.

Speaker 3 Like there's not one person rushing out to put the statement out on a podcast and one person refusing to take it. If it's mutual, then it's like, this is all right.
Let's, we're done here.

Speaker 3 But like, for it not to be mutual, it's like one of us has to heal a little bit before we like announce to the world. So let's like tread lightly for a few weeks.

Speaker 7 Southern Charm also did pick up cameras we saw in the teaser, which is giving drama caught off off guard blindsided.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 3 Truly, they love a pickup camera, which we got to tease that.

Speaker 1 No. They're just like, after like this week's scene with Paige and Craig, you know, he just, he just wants a family.
Paige gives the word family, gives her the egg. She wants nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1 She's not ready. And that's totally fine.
But like these two, you know, that's where I am very much team Paige for like. Seeing what I think a lot of us have seen and what Craig is struggling to see.

Speaker 1 And he's just like, I love this person. It should be enough.
And I hope for Craig that he like sees, you know, why Craig made the decision. Cause I, you know, listen, I'm not here to tell Craig.

Speaker 1 I'm not here to tell Craig who she should be in a relationship with.

Speaker 1 And if I'm Craig, I don't want to hear me say things like, I don't, you know, I nothing, when you have a broken heart, you don't want to hear like reasonable people being like, I just don't know if you two were a fit.

Speaker 1 Like, you don't want to hear that. But I do hope for Craig that he sees what we see after he heals.
And like, I just, Paige was going to fight the life he wanted to live for maybe forever.

Speaker 1 I just don't think she wants what he wants. I don't think she wants it in South Carolina.

Speaker 3 Should we get into our daily dilemma?

Speaker 1 Let's do it.

Speaker 3 Are you fing kidding me?

Speaker 1 I'm losing my mind.

Speaker 3 The daily dilemma is a TikTok couple reveals a twist in their sleeping arrangements and why they no longer share a bed.

Speaker 3 The husband revealed he's been sleeping in their walk-in closet for a month and noted he dragged the guest bedroom mattress into the closet.

Speaker 3 He says, my wife's not a huge fan of this arrangement, obviously. He clarified that the arrangement is temporary and shared that it was something I had to do just to prioritize my mental health.

Speaker 3 I was not okay, he continued. I was really struggling and I was feeling awful, so that's why I'm here.

Speaker 3 He also opened up about his constant battle with ADHD and anxiety and noted that was part of the reason why he chose to sleep in the closet. His wife said, I'm a lonely girl.

Speaker 3 Say what you want, but I'm codependent and I hated being alone at night. She also added that it's been hard to go into the closet now since there's a queen-size mattress in there.

Speaker 3 He also explained that he saw his parents sleep separately growing up because they both had sleep problems and know that it had nothing to do with the health of their marriage.

Speaker 3 How would you feel if I was like, yeah, hey, absolutely love it. Like, there's two things that I have problems with.

Speaker 1 You quoted mental health.

Speaker 3 There's two things I have problems with. I don't help your mental health.

Speaker 3 Getting in at night and like cuddling, rubbing feet, touching in some sort of way with your partner doesn't like ease your mental health. You have to go sleep.

Speaker 3 in the cold closet surrounded by stinky smelly shoes and the dirty laundry basket to like your oasis

Speaker 3 yeah it's crazy

Speaker 3 sierra i know you're fucking different because you're crazy yep you want you your team this guy i i get it listen if it's affecting your mental health first of all second of all that i'm like depending upon i don't know exactly why this person

Speaker 3 as 17 no my thing is like for example

Speaker 3 number one my thing for example is that i'm like in the morning i get up early right and i like all my stuff obviously in the room if connor wants to sleep in you go sleep in the other room because I'm getting ready.

Speaker 3 This is fucking with my mental health now because I'm tiptoeing around you trying to not wake daddy while I'm trying to get ready to go to work and you can sleep.

Speaker 1 That's a morning routine problem. Yeah.
But I'm saying not a going to bed and snuggling with your partner all night long problem.

Speaker 3 Give me the full bed so I can starfish and sleep like a fucking queen. Period.
And then I'll see you in the morning. Good morning.
Kiss.

Speaker 1 Bye.

Speaker 1 I mean, the fact that

Speaker 3 the fact that he's able to get on his podcast and publicly say that, like, him and his wife be like, yeah, I have to sleep in the closet because my mental health is not good but my question is this kind of a spectacle because i'm like you drug the mattress from the guest room to the closet

Speaker 1 but i'm also like why wouldn't you just sleep in the guest room or does he still want to be near her by the closet yeah that's what it's like what happens when him sleeping in the closet and pulling the queen-size mattress off the guest bedroom making a mess and fucking with their closet what happens when that affects her mental health oh my god so true oh exposure therapy Or the fact that he's not in bed with her affect her mental health.

Speaker 6 I think he's on tour right now and I'm a mess.

Speaker 1 Can we just

Speaker 1 have we gotten to the point where like you, you need to like, can we just invoke mental health? Like, when does your mental health become more important than my mental health? And what happens when

Speaker 3 reverse, you know, mental health? It's like, I forgot to need a Valentine's Day basket for my mental health.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I need to not give her one for mine.
Wow.

Speaker 4 I think it's like if you

Speaker 1 go from here,

Speaker 1 therapy.

Speaker 4 If you want to sleep in separate beds, sleep in separate beds, no one really cares.

Speaker 4 But like, if one person isn't happy about it, maybe that's a private conversation you should have and you should not go on your podcast and talk about it.

Speaker 3 I do think it's also hard when you have.

Speaker 1 I don't have those clicks.

Speaker 3 I do think it's also hard when you have small children.

Speaker 3 Obviously, like the only time we really get to connect with each other is like when Rivers asleep and it's time for us to like go to bed and we get in the bed together and we get to like be by ourselves and watch a show and cuddle

Speaker 3 and this and that, you know, and it's like, they're not able to do that because he's snoring with with this with the shoes yeah it's crazy maybe clothes bring him comfort also in the dick van dyke show mary tyler moore and dick van dyke slept in separate beds and guess what that was a couple that had sauce also my question if she wants to sleep

Speaker 3 in the closet with you

Speaker 1 not allow

Speaker 1 ah all right well sleep with your partners people or don't or don't don't but don't sleep in the closet next to them and claim mental health

Speaker 1 do what you want well you know it's good for my mental health talking to recently eliminated uh faithfuls on the show traders and up next we have most recently deleted faithful himself derek to give us the inside tea of everything that went down in the castle and the recently deleted or the deleted deleted huh the deleted deleted

Speaker 1 up next derek

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Speaker 1 Derek!

Speaker 1 What's going on, buddy?

Speaker 1 What's going on? Not much, man. Sad to see you voted out of the castle, man, or killed.

Speaker 8 Coming to you from heaven.

Speaker 1 That's what it looks like. Does it say, is there a box that says homicide back there?

Speaker 8 Yeah, so this is so we do a show twice a week. This is all actual stuff from when I was a detective, all my case files.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Are you still a cop?

Speaker 8 No, I own a private investigative firm here in Rhode Island. And so I've been licensed PI since 2017, but now just a podcaster like everybody else in this space.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you for the service you gave in your time of service.

Speaker 1 My brother's a cop too. So I just want to give a shout out.
Oh, awesome.

Speaker 8 Awesome. Where's he at?

Speaker 1 He's in Wisconsin.

Speaker 8 Wisconsin. Yeah.
It's funny. Are we recording right now? Are we going?

Speaker 1 We are. Yeah.
We are.

Speaker 8 So little funny story, Nick. It's when I saw you on the list today, I was like a last minute yes for traders.
And the logistics weren't going to work out at first. And then they did.

Speaker 8 So I was in Nashville and I was getting ready to fly to Scotland. And your name was one of the names that was prominent as far as who was going to be on the show.

Speaker 8 And so, I knew you from The Bachelor, but I didn't know a lot about you. But I was like, All right, let me start learning about these people I may be playing against.

Speaker 8 So, I remember looking you up and finding out you're from Wisconsin, that you had recently gotten married.

Speaker 8 Your wife's name is Joy, Natalie, your daughter's name, Natalie, your daughter's name is River.

Speaker 1 Yes, I got that right at the moment.

Speaker 8 Yes, okay, and I don't know if I can say it, but your daughter's birthday is a day before mine, which is why I remembered it. Can I say the date? Yeah, you can.

Speaker 1 Yeah, everyone knows.

Speaker 8 February 2nd. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah.
Mine's February 3rd.

Speaker 8 So that's why I remembered it.

Speaker 1 My siblings is February 3rd. Yeah.

Speaker 8 And so I was kind of developing a case file on you without you even knowing it.

Speaker 3 And you developed it for this.

Speaker 1 And did you think, did you go in intimidated that I might be there? Or you thought you were going to

Speaker 1 absolutely crush me?

Speaker 8 No, in fairness, you do this all day. You talk to all different types of personalities.
So I was like, this dude's going to be awesome at this game.

Speaker 8 And I wanted to work with certain people who had those types of traits that would be good in a game like this. So, honestly, I could have used you.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, sorry.

Speaker 8 I went for Dylan. It didn't work out that way.
He was already in Rob's pocket.

Speaker 1 Yeah, truly. He turned on you pretty quick.
Watching it back, Dylan really seems like he's, you know, doing very well.

Speaker 1 It really feels like this week was really interesting because he really, like you said, is in Rob's pocket.

Speaker 1 I wonder, I do, do you think there's any world in which Dylan has suspected that Rob has been a traitor the whole time, but instead of going for it, he decided to get on his good side?

Speaker 1 Or no, you think he's not quite at that level? We're all cool now.

Speaker 8 So obviously we've had a chance to talk since the show.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 He was never going to turn on Rob. I don't think, I think after the Bob the Drag Queen vote, he was just completely enamored by that combination.
And no, he did not know Rob was a traitor.

Speaker 8 Think about it. Dylan was playing an aggressive game like me.

Speaker 8 When he figured out Bob the Drag Queen was a traitor, he went after him even when no one else was because rob helped get him over the edge he just felt a loyalty towards him and i do think he was truly disappointed when he found out rob was a traitor not because he had betrayed his trust but because then he realized he was someone who was protecting him so no i love dylan but no he was he was hot on gabby's trails at that point that's actually not a throwaway vote there was a lot of conversations there where dylan truly thought Gabby was a traitor and he was he was trying to have another Bob the Drag Queen moment.

Speaker 1 Ah, that makes sense because it was like, yeah, he's usually been on top of things, but the Gabby vote felt like kind of like out of pocket.

Speaker 8 Nah, he was telling me like, I think Gabby's a traitor. I'm like, I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean, I got to assume you weren't shocked to find out that you got murdered when you did just because you were on Rob's trail so, so well.

Speaker 1 When you went to bed that night, you're like, I'm probably going to get killed, but like this is my chance of not getting killed.

Speaker 1 What were you hoping that was going to go down instead of you being murdered?

Speaker 8 So when Brittany approaches me after the roundtable, I'm thinking she's also a traitor because she's

Speaker 8 protecting Rob. So my hope was that for some reason, they're going to be stupid enough to keep me.
And so what I wanted to do was get rid of one of Rob's votes, and that was Brittany.

Speaker 8 So by calling Brittany out publicly and telling Dylan that, my hope was that if I survived, Brittany wouldn't be able to defend Rob at the next roundtable because she would be defending herself.

Speaker 8 And so I was hoping I would be there to witness that.

Speaker 8 And it ultimately did work out, but just

Speaker 8 at my demise. But listen, you know, I knew that Rob had two choices and both of them sucked.
The first choice was to keep me in the game and go, you know, toe-to-toe with me again at the roundtable.

Speaker 8 I don't think that would have worked out well for him, but who knows?

Speaker 8 The second option was to leave me in the game and basically convince the rest of the cast or get rid of me and then convince the rest of the cast that, oh, hey, you know, they're framing me.

Speaker 8 And I think that's the route he went with. I think he had more.
trust in the faithful getting it wrong than me not going after him again.

Speaker 8 Obviously, it didn't work out, but if it did, he would have just grew that legendary status.

Speaker 1 I mean, I thought there was no way he was gonna get out of it, and he didn't, so there's that, but like he did make a very convincing argument where I thought I really thought people were gonna like maybe go the Britney direction.

Speaker 1 Cause you're right, it means he got ahead of it early.

Speaker 1 He tried to spin it early where he's like immediately as people found out that you got killed, he started like kind of shouting out, I'm being framed, I'm being framed.

Speaker 1 Like he had a plan, and he was already executing that plan.

Speaker 1 and it sounds like this many weeks in you're thinking yeah why would a traitor kill the most obvious person and it's you know bob if it's bob he wouldn't be smart he would be smart enough not to kill the most obvious person so he really was thinking uh multiple steps ahead it was uh but i mean when tom sandoval has you pegged

Speaker 8 you're cooked yeah yeah that's the point i do think i do think you know you know how these shows go i think as soon as i didn't walk in that was it for rob i think la la could have gotten rob out that night.

Speaker 8 Honestly,

Speaker 8 he was a dead man walking. And

Speaker 8 I think he might have even knew that. Rob's a methodical player.
He's very analytical in what he does, but you did see a little bit where in that turret, he's like, I want my revenge.

Speaker 8 That's not Rob, you know, but ultimately he wanted to get me out. I think he was a little surprised by me coming out like that.

Speaker 8 And I think he figured, hey, I may not get out of this alive, but neither are you. And I respect that.
Two East Coast guys. I love the way we went.

Speaker 1 It was, I mean, certainly Rob, you know, and both of you guys like made your mark. And Rob, as much as we've talked about the past few weeks of like him,

Speaker 1 you know, being legendary Rob, he definitely kind of burned out pretty quickly. You know, like kind of to your point, it's like.

Speaker 1 His moves were good, but they weren't so good that like, you know, there's a lot of people left and he's already gone. So like, and he had the protection.

Speaker 8 Hey, I'm gone too, Nick.

Speaker 1 You weren't a traitor, though. You know what I'm saying? Wouldn't you agree that traders have an advantage? Like, there's a huge advantage if you're a trader.

Speaker 8 The best analogy to make, I've been saying it all day, is imagine playing chess against someone.

Speaker 8 And the object of the game is to put your pieces in place where by the time your opponent figures it out, it's too late. It's checkmate.
Well, with traders, I'm playing against the trader.

Speaker 8 I'm making my moves. And the minute they figure out that I got the edge on them.
All they have to do is hit the big red button and my game's over.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 8 It's like, it's really difficult. Yeah.
I mean, listen, Rob's a legend. Wes is a legend.

Speaker 8 And to be transparent with you guys, when I came in in the cage, I almost felt like a case of imposter syndrome because this was my second show. So I'm like, why am I up here with these guys?

Speaker 8 I don't deserve it. They've been doing this since I was in high school.
And, you know, I was a little intimidated at first. But ultimately, I found my ground and I think I held my own.

Speaker 8 And I mean, I thought I gave a pretty compelling argument. I basically said exactly what happened.
including his friggin' origin story on how he became a traitor.

Speaker 8 And people were like, good story, bro. Still voting for Wes because he's me.

Speaker 3 Well, Wes definitely fucked you over with the whole, like, I'm coming for you. Like, if he hadn't said any of that, it would have been Rob that night.

Speaker 1 It was just like, yeah, okay.

Speaker 8 Yeah, no, as soon as he said it, there was an audible gasp in the roundtable, and you just saw, like, as pale as I am, like, all color went out of my face because those are the variables I didn't anticipate.

Speaker 8 I didn't anticipate Wes reacting the way he did. But in fairness to him, I I don't think he thought he was going to have to counter that argument of being aggressive.

Speaker 8 And secondly, Carolyn and Danielle were currently in a fight, which I was unaware of. So Carolyn voted for Danielle instead of Rob, which she did the next night.

Speaker 8 So those are the variables you can't control. I was one vote away from a tie.

Speaker 1 What could have been? See, I think Wes beat himself. And I think, listen, you got killed by Rob.
Rob had the advantage of a trader. You could argue that Rob beat himself and Wes beat himself as well.

Speaker 1 I mean, I get it. Like, Like Wes has accomplished a lot.
I never watched the challenge, but like, isn't part of game playing knowing your audience?

Speaker 1 Like you came in starting this interview, like doing some research on me thinking I was going to go on the show.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't think people from Housewives or, you know, Batronation or, you know, whatever franchise give a fuck about how many shows Wes won on the challenge.

Speaker 1 You know, and it seemed like Wes kind of like felt like that was something everyone needed to respect. Even Wes was like to the other people, like, I don't know who you are.

Speaker 1 They don't don't know who you are either, Wes. Like, there's a lot of people who everyone's narcissistic on this show in their own world.
Everyone kind of comes in thinking they're the man.

Speaker 1 And I feel like Wes coming in with this, like, I've won more than everyone else was to his detriment, you know? Like, he should have gone a lot farther than he did.

Speaker 1 And I felt like you kind of got, you were the sacrificial lamb trying to play it smart, having Wes supposed to be an ally. He can't like keep his cool.
He's like mouthing off to a bunch of ladies.

Speaker 1 He don't give a fuck who he is, making threats. And then like you kind of got screwed trying to like hold your own and like playing it right.
I don't know. How did you see it?

Speaker 8 I'm a girl dad. I'm right there.
I got two girls, 12 and nine. And I was like, don't take a rocket scientist to figure out this isn't going to go well for me right now.

Speaker 8 But literally, as I was putting my vote up, you know, they cut a lot out, but I was like, well, Wes, you're going home tonight. And I'm probably getting murdered tomorrow, but it was fun.

Speaker 8 And then I put it in there because. I knew, I knew the way he reacted and the way they responded to it.
Logic was out the window.

Speaker 8 And I tried to bring it back home by being like, guys i get it but let's not be dumb and vote for the guy that we don't like over the person who is clearly the traitor and they were just like yeah we're not having it and in their defense i think well dylan i didn't realize would never have voted for rob uh i didn't realize brittany was as as you know positive on rob as she was until that day but overall i think regardless their thought process was we don't like wes so either way it's a win to get him out and if he's not the traitor we'll vote out rob tomorrow how happy were you watching this episode back knowing you, you didn't have to go through the bugs?

Speaker 3 Or were you like, that would have been fun?

Speaker 8 I mean, listen, I, I was having so much fun out there. Nick, if you, I'm sure you're going to get the call.
It's do it. It was the best show I've ever done.

Speaker 8 I've only done two shows, which is not saying a lot, but it was so much fun. That's the only thing that, the only regret I have is that I didn't get to play longer because.
production is great.

Speaker 8 The staff is great. The competitions were great.

Speaker 8 The place where we were film is beautiful. So I was bummed watching it.
I'm going to have FOMO for the rest of the season. I don't regret my move.
If anything, I made the move too late.

Speaker 8 But I do regret the fact that I don't get to experience the things that they're getting to experience now.

Speaker 1 So that's bittersweet. It looks like a lot of fun.
And

Speaker 1 our boy Wells obviously was the first out, and he's bummed about that. And that is the challenge about that show, though.
It's just like.

Speaker 8 It made no sense going for Wells, by the way, but I'd never vote that.

Speaker 1 It made no sense.

Speaker 1 Whether you're a former cop or you're Rob or you're Wes, the thing about what's fascinating about this show, what makes it so fun is you can be a great game player, but there's still a lot, there's a lot of elements that like you can't control and the unpredictability, you know, like the fact that people do go for their friends, you know, that people, you know, they go off of vibes and things like that.

Speaker 1 To kind of your point, like, it only does you so good to be a former cop and to disagree with me if you want, Derek, like almost like Wes is a better, you know, Wes was playing like he was in a room full of people on the challenge, you know, and instead of adapting being in a room full of some people on the challenge, some people like who are gamers, some people who are housewives, some people, you know, and you have to adapt to a game player like Rochelle who's going to like go off vibes, you know, and you have to anticipate shit like that.

Speaker 1 And Wes was just like, it couldn't, it wasn't registering with Wes. Like, and to me, that makes him less legendary than he says he is

Speaker 1 because he wasn't adapting to his environment.

Speaker 8 Shot's fired is Wes done the show yet?

Speaker 1 No, he hasn't. He was too busy for another show, but I'll bring him back.
Oh, that's okay.

Speaker 8 So that's that's where this is coming from.

Speaker 1 That's my honest opinion, but like, I would love to, I'll bring him on to defend himself. But I don't know.
Do you see it? Do you see it differently? Do you see it differently?

Speaker 8 I mean, listen, listen, you know, the thing is, you don't have a lot of time during the day to talk to each other. You really don't.
And I didn't,

Speaker 8 I saw Wes for what it was. He realized they were on a tight time window.
We needed people to talk and nobody was really giving anything.

Speaker 8 Like Sam and Ivor, one night are saying, Rob, I think you're a traitor. I'm coming for you.
And the next night they're voting for Wes.

Speaker 8 They just, it's hard when you're playing with people who don't necessarily do these games all the time.

Speaker 8 But yeah, to your point, I think, I think Wes didn't maybe read the room correctly in that moment. He said to me that he made a joke that just didn't land.
That was a joke. That was his humor.

Speaker 8 But like you had said, they don't know him. But I will say this.
Wes is his thought process is I'm there to make a good TV show. That's why I keep getting cast on these shows.

Speaker 8 And in his defense, between him and Rob, to go back to my point earlier, they've been on like 20, 30 shows together.

Speaker 8 I've been on two and I won my first show so you know I guess it depends on what your goals are if you're trying to get cast on the next show probably the right move in the character that he's playing but if you're trying to win this particular game maybe not the right decision you talked about having two girls are they watching traders or do they think you're so uncool

Speaker 8 My oldest daughter is 12, so I'm just starting not to be cool with her, but they love Dylan Efron, obviously.

Speaker 1 Of course. So

Speaker 8 I had a big premiere party. I let her invite all her friends.
I was suddenly cool again.

Speaker 8 And the only troubling part was my daughter, who was like this sweet, innocent little Tenley, like never really gave me any indication she likes boys. And she's like, dad, can you do me a favor?

Speaker 8 The girls were wondering if you could FaceTime Dylan real quick. And I was like, sure, no problem.
I FaceTimed them and no joke. It was like rabid dogs for a piece of meat, including my daughter.

Speaker 8 And I'm like, Tenley, I almost had to kick her away from the the phone. I'm like, all right, Dylan, I hate you.
Bye. I got to go.

Speaker 8 But yeah, no, I'm suddenly cool again for at least the next six months.

Speaker 1 That's great, man.

Speaker 1 Scary. Scary, but great.

Speaker 1 Nick, Nick, get ready for it, man.

Speaker 8 It was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my life. The way she acted in that moment, I was like, oh my God, she's never leaving the house again.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. Speaking of Dylan, how do you think he navigates out of this kind of loyalty to Rob now that he, you know, Rob is out? He's been revealed as a traitor.

Speaker 8 He's kind of positioned himself as like an ally of rob he's not the only one but how do you think he navigates out of that this is the best thing that could have happened for him uh his biggest downfall was his blind spot to rob kind of similar with me with danielle and him not having rob in the game no more is going to open up paths for him because initially when i gave him the shield i had a lot of hope for his potential and he was so skewed by rob that he started to lose his sight of what he should be focusing on and that intuition kind of escaped him a little bit.

Speaker 8 And my hope going forward is now he reels it it back in, realizes he's there for himself. People view him as a faithful.

Speaker 8 And so hopefully he can ride that wave and get back on track because although we're only halfway, a little bit more than halfway through, there's not a lot of game to play left.

Speaker 8 So you got what, three, four episodes. So now's the time.
You got to start getting those traders out or they're going to win.

Speaker 3 With Danielle, Danielle's been really confusing, I think, for viewers to watch because it seems like she's not a very good trader.

Speaker 3 Did you suspect Danielle at all during your time in the castle? And like, what was your reaction to seeing her in tears to your departure?

Speaker 8 Yeah, me and Danielle have been close for 10 years. And I always wanted to play a show with her.
She's the best big brother player to not win. And so we had a personal relationship.

Speaker 8 We had a lot of, and Nick knows this, we had a lot of conversations off camera that are much more personally connected and not about the game that you remember when you're playing.

Speaker 8 And so she got me in the blind spot there. And I will say this in Danielle's defense.
There's a reason nobody's saying her name at the roundtable.

Speaker 8 Yes, we were suspicious of her, especially me and Brittany after the riddle competition.

Speaker 8 But I got distracted by Brittany's behavior in defense of Rob because I was certain about Rob, and that threw me off Danielle's trail. But she's playing a pretty good game.

Speaker 8 She hasn't been mentioned yet. Yes, she's emotional, but she's been consistent in that emotional, uh, yeah, emotional display that put on.
She's constantly crying over everything.

Speaker 8 So to the point, we were all kind of perceiving it as she's just, this, this game is too much for her. She's paranoid.
Right. Um, but overall, she's still there.
Um, she got rid of Rob.

Speaker 8 I think it was a great move giving me up for Rob to lower his guard to then just vote for him again, right? I mean, it's a good move.

Speaker 8 So I know she's getting a tough edit and people are like, it's so obvious he's a traitor, but you guys have the privilege of knowing who the traitor is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it makes

Speaker 1 like you said, it makes no difference to me, like as a viewer, like what, how obvious we think it is because, well, and maybe I know this because I know things are edited, but to your point, like no one in the house is suspecting her.

Speaker 1 So if anyone should be criticizing anyone, it should be the other people in the house, not the traitor who clearly in the moment is like giving faithful to everyone.

Speaker 1 Like she is, she's playing the best game, you know, because like no one's, no one's bringing her up. No one.
You still have Tom Sandoval and Dolores going at each other.

Speaker 8 Yeah, and you had, you had Jeremy who was on to her, and he was one that I'm very close with. He's my favorite survivor player.

Speaker 8 So him saying it stuck in my head as well when he said it and then got murdered. I was like, that's not good.

Speaker 8 But I would have, to be transparent now that I'm out, like, I don't think I ever would have went after her. And even at the end, I don't know if I would have had the balls to cut her.

Speaker 8 Because let's be honest, you guys know this.

Speaker 8 It's about the journey, not the destination with traders. Like nobody's like, who's going to win? the 250,000.
It's more about like, how are they going to get there?

Speaker 8 What's going to happen in the meantime? So I don't know what I would have done, but I will say one of my biggest weaknesses in that game was my friendship with Danielle for sure. But I love her.

Speaker 8 I have no ill will toward her or anybody else for that matter.

Speaker 1 All-star traders, you would go back for another run if you were offered, I'm assuming.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I mean, it was a great experience. I would go back.
Here's the thing, and you might even have more insight on this.

Speaker 8 And I'd actually like your opinion on it because I feel like this show is blowing up so much. that it's kind of becoming like the next dancing with the stars.

Speaker 8 And the pool of people that they're going to be able to pull from is going to be so vast. I think the nobodies like me, the fact that I got one shot in there is like, I better just be happy with that.

Speaker 8 I feel like it's getting big now.

Speaker 1 I think you're selling yourself a lot short, Derek. I think, one, I think, yes, it's gotten more successful.

Speaker 1 I think, you know, from season one to season three, yeah, I think it's a little easier for casting.

Speaker 1 than it was maybe the first two seasons where they you know they probably they probably got a lot of no's and you know people weren't sure what it was but like every season the gamers of the the gamers have very much carried this show.

Speaker 1 I think like the housewives or you know, bachelor people, like, you know, Dylan, they pick up on it as they get along.

Speaker 1 But like, I think the strategy is what a lot of people are enjoying about this show.

Speaker 1 And I think to make it work, you almost need the gamers, the big brother people, the survivors, the challenge people, because I think they almost, in a way, train the Dylans of the world about how to play the game.

Speaker 1 And I think, I think that's always important.

Speaker 1 I think there's an element there. And

Speaker 1 I think the reality TV space is always going to dominate traders. I think even Dylan is kind of technically reality TV because he did the show with his brother.

Speaker 1 But I don't think they're going to start pulling in working actors and musicians and things like that.

Speaker 1 I think this works for traders. It's obviously Bravos has a strong real, you know, it's cross-promotional.
So I think they're going to stay in this lane.

Speaker 1 And I still think they're going to be pulling from gamers, even if it's like, you know, for the people who don't watch Big Brother or don't watch Survivor, you know, you're learning a lot about these people but i think they're too important to this uh to this show's like the wheel the the gears turning i don't know i think if you just had a bunch of housewives and a bunch of like vanderpump people and a couple basher people and they're like play traders you know it'd be harder to get going yeah it wouldn't be as like the the

Speaker 1 i'll tell you why derek because like like for example the bachelor people a lot of them are coming off uh going on the bachelor show and like there's a lot of brainwashing that goes on where it's just like are you fucking here for the right reasons like you better he be here for for the right reasons.

Speaker 1 You better not, like, in bachelor world to like, quote unquote, like, steal someone is like, like, the worst thing you can do.

Speaker 1 So I think there's a lot of like trauma, honestly, from like people who like have only done the Bachelor franchise.

Speaker 1 So the idea of being a traitor or a villain or killing someone or lying to your friend.

Speaker 1 They're like so uncomfortable with that like being recorded and being used for TV because they're so used to being like that weapon, honestly, like weaponized against them that you truly would need gamers like yourself being like guys it's a game you can chill out we're here to play and have them relax because honestly you would get a you would get a lot of reality tv stars who are too afraid to do shit you ain't wrong and and that was part of the concept in there where you have to quickly figure out people's motives for being there yeah as you alluded to and without saying names there are people that their metric for success on traders is how long can i last like how many how much airtime can i get how long can i go in the show where people like you know Rob and myself, and we're playing the game.

Speaker 8 If I go home, I go home, but I'm playing, you brought me here to catch a killer. That's what I'm going to do.
And if I go home early, that's fine. But yeah, you're right.

Speaker 8 We're putting more of a strategic element to the game. And I could see there were certain people that didn't give a shit who went home as long as it wasn't them.

Speaker 8 And that, that can be, if it's all people like that and everyone's doing throwaway votes. it could actually hurt the show.
So you, you make a valid point. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'd be throwing, you know, and people just like, they only, they want to stay there.
They also want to be likable. They want to be, you know, they want to be the popular one.

Speaker 1 They're like, yeah, there's a lot of

Speaker 1 motives in that, in that round table, so to speak, that aren't like making the show as good as it possibly can. And I think the gamers will always be welcomed at the table for that reason.

Speaker 8 Hey, listen, I'm not mad about it from your lips to God's ears. I hope I get the chance to play again.
It was a great experience. I was my first time playing a show in 10 years.

Speaker 8 You've done the reality TV thing. It's not always a positive experience, but the behind the scenes, the mental health aspect of it, I was fucked up after Big Brother.

Speaker 8 I was in there almost 100 days and I was an undercover detective for four years and that was harder.

Speaker 8 And so having people behind the scenes calling you every week, even as the show's airing to be like, hey, how you doing? What'd you think? Are you cool? Is anything you need to talk about?

Speaker 8 They have doctors on stuff. I was like, wow, this is definitely different than past experiences.
And for those reasons, I would do it again.

Speaker 1 That's awesome, Derek, man.

Speaker 1 Sounds like you had a great time. Really fun to hear your POV about the experience.
Anything else you want to share before we let you go?

Speaker 8 No, man. I'm just enjoying it.
Thanks for having me on. And if I ever get to see you in there, don't be a traitor.
Don't kill me.

Speaker 1 All right. Well,

Speaker 1 if I ever go on,

Speaker 1 I'll be reaching out to you for some advice. I appreciate you, buddy.

Speaker 8 Love that. Love that.
Thanks for having me, guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Derek.

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Speaker 1 Derek's a nice guy. He's so nice.
So sweet.

Speaker 3 That's so cool that he like does his research on people to try to just like get to know them before he goes.

Speaker 1 He's smart.

Speaker 3 No, I know. But it was like sweet that he remembered all that.

Speaker 3 That's like a gamer versus just like a reality star because it's giving jax when he went on house of villains and his reps were like to win the game you should do your research on who else is going in and he did zero and then was like i had no idea that they would behave this way and it's like well if you would have just watched a clip what is the premise of house of villains it's just all of the worst people from reality tv living under a house and doing i mean i know jax is a horrible human being but are they all horrible people just like the worst characters like i love new york

Speaker 3 villains are iconic for sure i mean candy muse but i'm like even then the whole point is that they hot the worst at it or they were the worst person on their season of their show.

Speaker 4 Candy Muse just got a bad edit.

Speaker 1 And they what? And then they do what?

Speaker 3 They compete, then they vote each other out. And then it's like, somebody wins.
House of villain. I haven't had heebie-jeebies that bad in a long time.

Speaker 3 I mean, watching all of those bugs.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think I still feel one in my ear. But the question is, how far would you make it? Are you

Speaker 3 could have done no Sierra? Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 Chris Sele, honestly, I related to that, but I feel like I could have, if I had someone who was really gripping my hand, I feel like I could have gotten past the scorpions.

Speaker 3 But then once those bugs dropped on my fucking head. No.

Speaker 4 Tom's hat, the way they just all went on tomorrow.

Speaker 3 Thank God Sierra had a veil because they were all on that veil instead of like crawling on her neck.

Speaker 1 But how far would you have gone?

Speaker 3 You, you had heebie-jeebies.

Speaker 1 It would have been tough.

Speaker 3 Would you have kept your eyes closed when they were putting like the millipede and the scorpions on your hands?

Speaker 1 Let me just say that I thought Dylan looked really hot. Oh, being as calm as he was.
Say more.

Speaker 1 I was really jealous of like, I wish I could say that I would have been Dylan in this moment, just kind of being like, this is fun. Sam was too.

Speaker 1 Sam was pretty manly. He was like, I love this.

Speaker 1 Rob was pretty manly.

Speaker 3 Rob talking Sierra through it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was pretty great.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I would have been somewhere between Tom Sandoval and Dylan.
Tom Sandoval was cracking me up every time.

Speaker 3 He's like, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Sure.

Speaker 4 Why not? You guys, I have to be honest. Sandoval kind of won me over.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you guys, he's a flawed man, but he is not horrible.

Speaker 1 He is not.

Speaker 1 He is there to be a court jester. He is not without a charming character.

Speaker 1 His reactions were perfect, I will say.

Speaker 6 So thinking that he was the one who got Rob out.

Speaker 1 He did. He did.
And Dylan was like, I trust Tom Sandoval. And Dylan, when he paired up with him, he was like, he kind of like shrugged.
It was like, hate me, America. I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 1 And then Tom was like, someone likes me.

Speaker 1 But you know why?

Speaker 1 Because I guarantee you, Dylan looks at tom sandam go i know exactly who you are i know exactly what i'm working with i know what not to ask you i know what to ask you and now i know now i trust you and that's all tom sandoval is he felt so good after he got robbed out and everyone was like good job

Speaker 4 he was like i finally have respect when he walked the trailer for the next episode when he walks up to what it's like the they're gonna kill someone face to face yeah when he walked he was like you know what i finally got the respect i wanted if i go i go

Speaker 4 and i was like i was like you know what tom I'm happy for you.

Speaker 1 No one takes him seriously.

Speaker 4 He's the perfect court jester.

Speaker 4 He's there to be laughed at. And everyone is doing it.

Speaker 1 He's doing a really good job. Even Tom Sandoval.

Speaker 7 Yeah, even the ending, we have Dolores from Patterson, which is like her alter ego when she turns like super like cold and like monotone where she was saying like, you better kill me.

Speaker 7 I'm going to come for you.

Speaker 3 I was like, all I said was that is a housewife from Jersey, right? Yeah,

Speaker 4 it's heating up.

Speaker 1 It's good. I think it would, it was, it would be harder for me to do the bug and snake things than some of the stuff on special forces.
Really?

Speaker 3 Listen, like, there's a reason Fear Factor got canceled. It's like, you can only take so much of that stuff, you know?

Speaker 1 And it's...

Speaker 7 I have a confession. I've done the bug challenge before.
What does that mean? I paid for like a haunted house where it was VIP and they like dump a ton of bugs and like you paid it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Oh my God. It's a VIP expense experience, but if you close your eyes, you can win it.

Speaker 3 He's like, it's a business expense.

Speaker 1 That's the thing. If I had to do

Speaker 1 it, if I had to mentally be like, all right, I got to, I got to fucking do this. Like, I hate snakes.

Speaker 1 I'm a big believer that, like, sometimes we hang on to our phobias because that's something we identify with. It's like, if you need to get over a phobia, you can.
You truly can.

Speaker 1 I cannot get over tripophobia. Sure, whatever.
You don't need to.

Speaker 3 I'm with you on that.

Speaker 4 Which one's tripophobia?

Speaker 1 Clusters of tiny clusters.

Speaker 1 Listen, you can get over anything you really need to. And most of the stuff you don't need to.
Anyways, I would have been able to muscle it up, but I wouldn't have been calm.

Speaker 1 I would have had maybe had to like close my eyes and I might have squirmed.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. I feel them.
I got to give Sierra a lot of credit.

Speaker 3 I was like, the fact that she did not open her eyes or did not pull away, where I'm like, the second the weight where I don't actually don't, I'm not afraid of snakes, but I'm like, if you're afraid of all of those things to top it off with a snake on, like the weight of a snake over your shoulders.

Speaker 3 Like, what is it?

Speaker 1 What is it?

Speaker 3 I was like, girl, if you don't know, you're lucky.

Speaker 4 I honestly think I would have handled that challenge really well.

Speaker 1 Non-relatable. Well, speaking of traders and speaking of Sam, who he's starting, he's starting to talk a little bit more.

Speaker 3 He's got a funny personality.

Speaker 1 He's got a funny personality. He's giving very manly.
He's also our guest this week on Going Deeper. This was an amazing interview.

Speaker 1 If you guys are fascinated with anything Britney Spears and their relationship, this is a must-listen episode. You do not want to miss.
I didn't even know what to expect with Sam. Truly.

Speaker 1 You know, we got in contact. He hit me up.
I was like, I absolutely would love to have you on the show. I said to him, everyone knows who you are and no one knows who you are.

Speaker 1 It's like we all know him as the ex-husband of Britney Spears, one of the biggest and greatest pop stars of ever, or of our generation, but we know like nothing of the man.

Speaker 1 He's relatively quiet on Traders.

Speaker 1 Well, we got to sit down with Sam and spend a lot of time with him and he gets into, I mean, his whole backstory and coming to America and meeting Brittany and a lot about their relationship.

Speaker 1 So you got to listen to it. It was wild.
I see him in a totally different light after talking with him than certainly before Traders and even on Traders where we haven't really gotten to know him.

Speaker 1 So it's an absolute must listen going deeper tomorrow on the Vile Files. Be sure to check that out.
All right. Bachelor time.
Recently departed Allie Joe will be joining us momentarily.

Speaker 1 This episode's really, this season's really like, it's good. It's good.
This season is good.

Speaker 3 I'm hooked. I'm still holding on to my Latia and Juliana are still definitely.

Speaker 1 Are you guys...

Speaker 1 Oh, by the way, for anyone who I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree with me, still absolutely 100% Team Zoe.

Speaker 1 Look, not my cup of money. No, not yet.
She doesn't have to stand by that. She doesn't have to be your cup of team.
What is Zoe's job? What is her job?

Speaker 7 Engineer.

Speaker 3 Mechanical engineer.

Speaker 1 Mechanical engineer and model. But I want to focus on the mechanical engineer.
Listen, anyone can do anything. But it's a unique profession for a lady to be a mechanical engineer.

Speaker 1 Maybe she might be different than, say, like a house full of other women. Tech engineer.

Speaker 1 Her personality might read a little differently. She's a tech engineer.
Tech engineer. I don't know.
Engineer. You know, when, like, go to any engineering program and it's like 10% women.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying it's, she might have a slightly different personality than a group full of girly girls.

Speaker 1 And whatever you agree with Zoe or not, like, I'm not saying you agree with how she's handling it. I'm not saying you would show up and be like, that's who I want to be friends with.

Speaker 1 Clearly, she is slightly different.

Speaker 1 But to sit there and tell me that she deserved, if you go back and watch it, after Zoe, you know, said whatever she said to Grant and then Grant, like, you know, kind of give that cryptic, you know, be nice to each other, the rumors.

Speaker 1 There's a scene where seven or eight women walk up to Zoe and form a line with their arms crossed. Go back and watch.
These women are all walking up with their arms crossed.

Speaker 1 They don't know, like, they've all been there for like four days. And Zoe shows up.
She pulls Grant. She spends some time with him.
These women are ganging up on her.

Speaker 1 Whether you agree with her or not, they just don't think she's going about it the right way, the right way that because they took notes as 15-year-old girls watching The Bachelor, and now they're deciding how the house is supposed to operate.

Speaker 1 And because Zoe does what Zoe wants to do, they all walk up in a gang of eight and like and make her cry. And you're gonna, and you're gonna side with the gang?

Speaker 3 I'm sorry. If you didn't come here to make friends, she did exactly that.
She made no friends.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Her dress comment was crazy.

Speaker 1 Her dress comment was crazy.

Speaker 4 That was crazy. Yeah,

Speaker 1 they tell her.

Speaker 7 It's the shortest dress I've ever seen, Sarah.

Speaker 11 Her dress is too short.

Speaker 4 Not the shortest dress I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 And you think Zoe does... Was it Zoe made that? Actually, Serafina did it.

Speaker 3 Well, she didn't say it to Zoe. She said it about Zoe to someone else.

Speaker 1 These are millions. I never heard it.
Okay, but the whole thing. It's bullying.

Speaker 7 The gang of eight people didn't get to talk to Graham.

Speaker 1 And you know why they didn't get to talk to Graham? Because Zoe was there every four times? No. No, no.
Because they are sitting. I know this because I've been in that world.

Speaker 1 They are sitting waiting their turn. They are more concerned talking to Derek on traders.
Derek pointed out, he showed up. I'm going back to Traders.
Keep up.

Speaker 1 No, I'm on a roller coaster. Whoa.

Speaker 4 Sorry, let's go inside my screen for 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 As Derek was saying, like some people, he observed some people were there to play the game and like make moves and some people were there to go far and some people were there to like make sure they had a good edit and make sure they were there to like be popular.

Speaker 1 And that's how all these women are in the house.

Speaker 1 They are sitting on a chair and a sofa waiting their turn, hoping Grant comes to see them or someone gets picked so they don't ruffle anyone's feathers because they're they're more concerned with their edit and popularity and followers than they are like following getting a connection with Grant.

Speaker 1 And Zoe is only focused on her connection with Grant and these girls are mocking her dress.

Speaker 1 And when they do, and when she does something they don't like, they gang up on her in an environment where they have no support system whatsoever. There's no one to call.
There's no friend.

Speaker 1 There's no lifeline. There's just, are you in the group? Are you out of the group? And if you're out of the group, fuck you.
You're fucked.

Speaker 3 Well, Ali Joe was a part of that group. That, that, uh yeah so you can bring that same energy with allie joe and ask her what the fuck yeah

Speaker 4 i'm just

Speaker 1 i get where she's coming from i mean they're all on a show but i'm saying for anyone watching and and it's every season all the batternation is like they pick the one person who doesn't play by everyone's rules and they want to pick on that one person when the bully is always the house it was kind of laughable just the like difference in group dates of how last week she was like, I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 3 I'm stealing him from you. I don't care.
I want to talk to him. That's what this whole thing is about.
And like, I'm going to sit here silent. And then the next week being like, I just

Speaker 1 have to hit with him. It's like, go, your actions have to be.

Speaker 3 It's like, now you know how we feel from last week.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I know.
I know there's editing. I don't like her tattling.
I'll give you that. I do not like her tattling.

Speaker 3 They're tattling and you don't get to be like,

Speaker 3 I'm all on my own. I came here just for the bachelor.

Speaker 1 I don't come here for friends.

Speaker 3 And then be surprised that the girls don't rally around you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's a difference between not rallying around them and confronting her with... There's a complete difference than...

Speaker 3 Nobody confronted her.

Speaker 1 She overheard somebody says that she's like, something rallying behind her is expecting the ladies to cheer her on as she goes and steals Grant from someone else. That's rallying behind.

Speaker 1 She's not asking that. What is happening is like the other women are waiting their turn.
Some of them are not getting the turns.

Speaker 1 Zoe's getting a turn and they're collecting all the women to like confront Zoe, literally pin her in a corner while their arms are all crossed until she cries while mocking her dress.

Speaker 1 And that's your team, your team bully? Yep, guess so.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 3 I was like, have another martini and cry about something instead of having a conversation face to face with the girls or confront them.

Speaker 3 But it's like, you don't get to play victim after you played badass last week. You just don't.
I do wish in that moment she would have said when Juliana was like, let's just cut to the chase.

Speaker 3 Like, Zoe, like, what did you tell him?

Speaker 1 What was her answer to that? I can talk to him about whatever I want to.

Speaker 3 I wish she would have been like, yeah, I told him that, like, Serafina, you fucking called my dress short and that hurt my feelings.

Speaker 3 And if this is going to be be my husband, I would like to confide in my husband about like people who hurt my feelings. And so, yeah, Serafina, I did tell him that you said that.
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 It's a lot easier to say what you're thinking and what you want when you have an army of friends on your back, as opposed to when you're by yourself on an army. No, that's when I thrive.

Speaker 1 She had clone.

Speaker 1 So true. She had so true.
And she has friends. Yeah.
I need you all to be in that world.

Speaker 3 Let's ask Ali Joe.

Speaker 6 I'm going to bring her in. I want to see this energy, Nick.

Speaker 1 Allie Joe.

Speaker 11 Hello.

Speaker 1 Hello.

Speaker 3 How are you?

Speaker 11 I'm doing good. How are you?

Speaker 1 We're so good. Your heart is healed from your bachelor exile.

Speaker 11 I would say so.

Speaker 1 For now. For now.
Well, before we get started,

Speaker 1 the household wants me to let you know I am staunchly Team Zoe. I don't know if you're going to.
Listen,

Speaker 11 should I get the boxing gloves out?

Speaker 1 Are you going to get the rest of your gang?

Speaker 1 I'm on it.

Speaker 3 I roll deep. I roll deep.

Speaker 1 Tell us about your experience, Allie.

Speaker 8 Experience was great.

Speaker 11 It was, it was wild. It was interesting.
It was fun. I feel like there's not one word you can use to explain the experience there.
It was, it was a great time, honestly.

Speaker 1 Were you surprised to kind of get an early exit or, you know, just kind of not make? I mean, I'm guessing maybe you just didn't get a chance to make much of a connection with Grant.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I feel like the time, every time I would speak with him, it was cut short.

Speaker 11 So the last conversation I had with him before the Rose ceremony, I remember going into one of the interview rooms and being like, I'm not really feeling too confident today. And I'll always own that.

Speaker 11 If I'm feeling confident, I feel that way. And if I don't, I don't.
And in that moment, I really didn't. So I kind of had a feeling after I had spoken to him that night.

Speaker 1 And was it always Zoe who was cutting you off? Or were there other people who kind of cut you off?

Speaker 11 There were other people. There were other people.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 11 But not, you know, consecutive times in a row.

Speaker 1 Are you still having beef with Zoe or have you guys reconciled?

Speaker 11 No, there's no beef at all. Listen, I'm a very like onward and upward person.
It wasn't shown.

Speaker 11 And I know she had spoken on other podcasts but i did apologize to her the next day we confided in each other a little bit that night at that cocktail party i had my red wine i gave her a little cheers we were in the pool together the next day so none of that was shown but um i'll own when i when i need to do something i i did apologize to her so there's no beef oh you did like i said onward and upward great what did you apologize for for the way i came across and the way i i spoke to her i wouldn't say it was the best way to present something but i was in the heat of the moment and I'm not a perfect person.

Speaker 11 But I own it and I apologize, you know?

Speaker 1 So maybe you can help clear up a debate we were having before you showed up. You've been obviously in this world.
I, you know, it's been, it's been a while.

Speaker 1 So I know what it's like to be in your shoes, but I'm usually of the opinion. And while everyone there is well-intentioned and it's all very confusing for everyone who's there.

Speaker 1 I mean, in the first couple of weeks, you guys are like, what the fuck's going on?

Speaker 1 But I'm of the opinion that even though the edit usually doesn't show this, that the in real time, that the house is usually the bully.

Speaker 1 I'm not calling any of you ladies bullies i'm just saying when you're in this house and you're part of the majority opinion and you're the one person like doing your own thing even if your own thing is as harmless as trying to get some time it can be very intimidating with when a group of men or a group of women walk up to you with your arms crossed and kind of like what the fuck are you doing and that's why i'm always i've i'm i'm team zoe in that do you see what i'm saying or do you feel like there's a different side no of course i always like to see two sides of a story story.

Speaker 11 And I even said that when I was speaking with her, you know, like you have your side, I have my side.

Speaker 11 And there's the truth somewhere in the middle, but nobody ever stood there with their arms crossed. She was always invited to do things and join us.

Speaker 11 And that's what was failed to be said by her and the edits. Like she was included.
She just chose not to include herself sometimes. But it also was shown we were all like eating dinner together.

Speaker 11 Her and Parisa did like a little hibachi night. Like we were all around the table.
So like she was included.

Speaker 11 So that's where sometimes like, if you want to put yourself in that box that you feel like you weren't included, that's how she felt. But being on the other side, she was included.

Speaker 11 And, you know, you can't really say that your teammates weren't supporting you when you quite clearly just said you weren't there to make friends and you were not just treating me a certain way, it was everybody.

Speaker 11 So you have to like, if you're going to say something, you have to at least back it up. And there's proof in the pudding.
And it was shown on television, not everything.

Speaker 11 You know, like I said, she has her side. I have my side.

Speaker 11 There was a truth somewhere in the middle, onward and upward, but nobody ever stood there with their arms crossed.

Speaker 3 I only do that that when i'm taking rumble boxing photo well i don't know i don't know if it was you and maybe you'll see it when you watched the the episodes but when you guys confronted zoe it was uh many of it was after when serafina said her dress was short and she went and she told grant about it and then grant was like the rumors like y'all need to be nice to each other and it was like uh zoe what did you say to him and then y'all all kind of y'all kind of ganged up on her a little bit it was kind of hot

Speaker 11 yeah so i mean i haven't seen that episode but i remember in real time i kind of just sat there i was like yo girl me and you we like squashed it she was like no i said like allie it wasn't allie joe like she her and i looked at each other in the eyes and said that's so i was not involved in that allie joe's hands are clean allie joe's hands to be clear for everyone we're not crossed

Speaker 3 arms were not crossed hands are clean they were not crossed exactly i mean were you aware of this like rose and carolina issue where grant told her he was thinking of rose during the dance with carolina did you you hear that?

Speaker 11 So when I was talking to Grant that final night, the night that I got eliminated, there was like all these things happening. And I remember me and Juliana were like, what's happening?

Speaker 11 What's happening? Like we were drinking drinks at the bar. We're like, what is going on? And I was like, I'm just trying to talk to Grant.
I was hanging out with the Golden Bachelorette man.

Speaker 11 I talked to Jack more that night more than I spoke to Grant. We were flipping burgers.
So I didn't really know what was going on. But then I kept like seeing all the girls walk back and forth.

Speaker 11 And I was like, what's happening? Like they're like, there's something happening. So I knew something was brewing.

Speaker 11 And then I knew chloe had cried and and her and i were talking and i was like and she was a little upset that he kind of spent time talking with her and while he was upset talking about other women and i said to her i was like listen maybe that's a good thing he's confiding in you that's that's a good sign so i was trying to make it a positive but yeah i wasn't aware of the entire situation but there was some rumblings happening who do you trust more carolina or rose i didn't have a like we were friends in the house i spoke to rose a lot more than i spoke to carolina but i i could not pick a side of who i would trust more because i wasn't there I like proof and I like to see things in my own eyes and I wasn't there.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. Gun to your head, you know,

Speaker 1 you got to pick a side.

Speaker 3 Messy, messy, messy.

Speaker 11 Oh, I don't know. I guess I have to see how it comes about on television.

Speaker 3 The comment that Serafina made about Zoe's dress, can you kind of tell us how that whole situation went down? Like, was it overheard by Zoe?

Speaker 3 Was it said to was a bunch of women talking about it that it got back to her?

Speaker 11 So to be honest, I don't remember her saying that. And then, when it came up in the previews, I was watching it with my mom, like the first episode, she was like, Alio, did you say that?

Speaker 11 And I was like, No, I didn't say that. I have no idea who did.
And then, when they

Speaker 11 ran it back and she was showing Sarathena, I was like, I truly don't remember her saying it that night. Like, I don't know if I wasn't present, I was hanging out with Dina a lot that night.

Speaker 11 Um, I really don't remember her saying that. I wasn't around.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 I honestly think it would be crazy for Grant not to think of also Rose while making out with Carlina.

Speaker 11 Rose is also really sick, too.

Speaker 1 What happened to?

Speaker 3 Oh, who was that? Beverly, Beverly. Oh, yeah.
Beverly went home. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 11 She went home. Yeah.
She got pretty sick. Like, none of us know where she went.
She was supposed to have a one-on-one date. And then we all did our group finance date, which I did horribly at.

Speaker 11 Then we came back and we were all like, where's Beverly? Where's Beverly? Where's Beverly? Like, we didn't know. And then.

Speaker 11 She ended up getting really sick and she had to unfortunately leave, which we all felt really bad for. And she was a great girl.

Speaker 1 Have you heard from her since? Is she okay? Yes. Okay.
Yeah, she's okay.

Speaker 11 She's okay. Yeah.

Speaker 11 Thank goodness.

Speaker 1 Well, Allie, thank you so much for giving us a little bit of the tea. We really appreciate you jumping on and giving us a little 411.

Speaker 1 And now that they're bringing Paradise back, are you hoping to get an invitation to the beach?

Speaker 11 Listen, I moved to Fort Lauderdale and I have a lot of bikinis now. So I would maybe go.
We'll see where I'm at in that point of my life.

Speaker 3 No shopping needed for Ali Joe.

Speaker 1 She is booked and ready to go.

Speaker 11 I'm ready. I was saying, laying in the palm trees yesterday in the sun.

Speaker 1 Are you currently single and available as of today?

Speaker 11 I am currently single and available as of today.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
Well, just we got to put it off there, you know, like, you know, that some people in casting, you know, watch this show. So it's really important.
You never know.

Speaker 11 I do have to correct you though, Nick. Oh, please.
You said something about, you said something about cup of tea, but I'm a cup of Joe. So we got to just change that a little bit.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much, Ali Joe. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 I stand corrected.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for your time, Allie Joe. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Good luck the rest of the way. We hope we see you on the beach and we'll see.
Well, it all comes down to women tell all.

Speaker 1 You got to find that sweet spot between being like someone who left early and not talking too much, but talking enough, you know, where

Speaker 1 they want you on, you know?

Speaker 11 So absolutely.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Well, we'll see you then.

Speaker 11 Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Appreciate you. All right.
Take care. Bye-bye.
Bye.

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Speaker 1 Sprite.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it would be psychotic if you really break it down.

Speaker 1 If Grant, like, I don't know he's supposed to say because it's like a tough position to be in, but imagine if he was only thinking of Carolina when he was making out with Carolina and not the other five women or whoever, how many women are.

Speaker 3 That would be weird. It would be like, you know, like, we're all fucking here.
You're not thinking of, like, hey, maybe we should wrap this up a little bit. There's five other women watching us.

Speaker 1 Like, this is all getting a little awkward.

Speaker 1 Yeah, honestly, don't even know that they're there. That would be insane.
That would be even worse.

Speaker 3 That is true. But I do think it was.

Speaker 1 That's how insane this world is.

Speaker 3 I do think it was insane for Rose to then like tell Carolina this whole like, well, he said he was thinking of me while dancing with you.

Speaker 3 And then to straight up tell Grant when Grant's like, I never said that. She's like, I could have sworn you did.
He's like, well, I did it. She's like, I must have misheard you.

Speaker 1 That combo was so incomplete. It was an easy thing to misheard.
It was weird. So what do we think the truth is?

Speaker 6 I think that the truth is that he was feeling bad for the other women that he was doing such a public display of affection with Carolina. And so he was thinking about it.

Speaker 6 And I think when him and Rose talked about it, we didn't see this conversation. They were probably, she probably mentioned like, that was uncomfortable.
I felt weird watching it.

Speaker 6 And he probably said, don't worry, I was thinking of you guys. Like, I, I also felt like it was a, and then she must have said that to Carolina.

Speaker 1 So you think he's lying?

Speaker 3 I don't know. Grant stood strong being like, those words never came out of my mouth.

Speaker 6 No, I don't think that he, that he's lying that could, because I think that it all got taken out of context.

Speaker 6 I don't think that he's saying like no i specifically didn't say i was thinking of rose while i was dancing with carolina it was a mutual breakup it was a mutual breakup i see what you're saying yes

Speaker 4 leia i get what you're i get what you're throwing down she's not wrong rose saying something

Speaker 1 but grant was very adamant that he did not nothing even remotely close grant was he took it offensively he was like you're lying on my character grant wasn't like listen like i was trying like i didn't say it like that and you knew I didn't say it like that.

Speaker 1 And for you to take that and go back to Carolina, like, felt like very disingenuous of you. He could have easily handled it that way.
And he did. And he was like, I don't fucking say that shit.
Right.

Speaker 3 But then to Leia's point, he also did not get rid of her for lying on his name. He said, everyone makes mistakes and deserves second chances.

Speaker 1 So here's what I'm saying. Do you think that's him covering his ass rather than him being like, I'm not, I don't know.

Speaker 3 That felt like a producer being like, maybe let's keep her another round.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There was definitely that.
That's almost certainly the answer. Another more like acceptable answer.
He's just like, I don't know. Like, who do I have left to choose from?

Speaker 1 He's like, Rose, Allie Joe. And he's like, I don't know.
Well, I'm not going to end up with either of them. So he's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I kind of liked making out with Rose a little bit more than Ellie Joe. So let's keep Rose for a week.

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 6 I think that there was more to the story. I mean, she's just going to make up a complete.

Speaker 6 I mean, she says that I remember that happening.

Speaker 1 No, she said,

Speaker 3 maybe I misheard. She didn't, she didn't stand strong being like, No, I know he said that.
Like, he definitely said that.

Speaker 1 She was like, Okay, well, maybe I misheard him.

Speaker 1 But also, what is she supposed to say when Grant's like, Yeah, she was giving I was running my mouth and gossiping and having fun, and I never imagined this would get back at all.

Speaker 3 Because, did you hear what she said when she was like, That was a private conversation between me and Carolina? It's like she was like jaw-dropped that Carolina brought it back to Grant.

Speaker 3 And she's like, That we were just like, I thought we would never get brought up again.

Speaker 1 I think her only defense of Rose, because I think Carolina is kind of shady.

Speaker 3 Well, Carolina didn't tell him he did process of elimination to get to Rose. Well, she has epilepsy.
So I feel like maybe that, you know. She was dating a DJ.

Speaker 1 Was it a little weird?

Speaker 3 And I feel like maybe that's why they broke up. He's like, you have to support me.
And she's like, I can't go to the raves.

Speaker 1 But that's a thing. It was a little

Speaker 1 too much. It ended up being sadder than we imagined.

Speaker 3 It was sad.

Speaker 1 And Grant was crying. We had Latia.

Speaker 1 Her story. We had three stories this episode.
Three stories. We had a story from Latia.
We had a story from Grant. And we had a story from Carolina.

Speaker 1 To recap, Latia's story, that her father, as a three-month-old child, and as a new dad, like nothing hits harder than the idea that the ability to

Speaker 1 raise my daughter and be her father was stolen from me because of a tragic car accident. And that her father's life was stolen from her and she lost this from her father.

Speaker 1 It's a devastating story, worthy of many, many tears. Latia was composed.
There was a couple tears. It was a beautiful cry.
It was a sad, sad story.

Speaker 1 Grant had to open up about his father, who is still thankfully with us, but had to open up a very, very vulnerable topic of his dad struggling with addiction.

Speaker 1 And obviously, the turmoil and trauma that can come between a family and a father and son dynamic. Very sad story.
It's very, it's very, it's deeply sad. Grant did not cry.

Speaker 1 He kept it together. Then we have Carolina.

Speaker 1 At 17, she tragically had a seizure and was very embarrassed. And she cried a lot.
It was very sad because of her epilepsy.

Speaker 3 Who judges someone for having a disease?

Speaker 7 That was her thing, is that when she was having the tremors and seizures in front of young kids, she was like, I shouldn't feel bad for something that I'm struggling with.

Speaker 3 Now, if somebody had a seizure in the middle of a grocery store and it was very apparent that like nobody knew what to do besides, thank God there was like one like medical professional that was shopping that day.

Speaker 1 Sadly, I know I have loved ones who deal with epilepsy.

Speaker 1 If not treated, it can be very serious. People have lost their lives.
It's, you know, it's nothing to be messed with.

Speaker 1 You should definitely consult with your medical professionals if you, if you have any symptoms.

Speaker 3 The way it was delivered was a little heavy.

Speaker 6 I think she was more so saying it because it's like being with somebody with epilepsy is

Speaker 6 like...

Speaker 6 could be diff you know she was saying like this is what a life with me could be like and you know it's it's not easy for somebody to be with somebody with epilepsy and it could have been like i maybe she's had relationships end in the past.

Speaker 1 She did. She had the DJ who was like,

Speaker 1 he picked the bright lights over her. I get it.

Speaker 7 She was saying that she's like uninvited from events because her family and friends like worry about her. And so it's like, it does affect her life of like people.

Speaker 1 I don't accept her. No one has to sell me more that it's real trauma.
But the

Speaker 4 group date with Lisa Vanderpump at Vanderpump Dogs, let's talk about that.

Speaker 3 I feel like Sarah Fino was like more excited to see Lisa Vanderpump than she was to realize she was.

Speaker 1 She was. She was on a reality TV show.
All right. Well, before we get into this date of Lisa Vanderpump, we need to address Lisa Vanderpump's comments that she recently gave regarding Ike Kennedy's.

Speaker 1 Trash, trash, trash, trash, trash. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I started with Kristen Derrick.

Speaker 1 She should have just not spoken. 100%.

Speaker 1 What was her statement? Can we bring it up?

Speaker 4 Okay, so Lisa Vanderpump spoke to us weekly in an exclusive.

Speaker 4 She said, I've spoken to James and Allie at great length. The first and most important thing for me was to know what happened exactly.
I didn't need to just hear from James.

Speaker 4 I needed to hear from Allie too, from her mouth, what happened. She told me categorically he didn't hurt her.
He never hurts her.

Speaker 1 They were both drinking.

Speaker 4 According to Lisa, Kennedy and Luber were both being ridiculous and arguing, which resulted in someone calling the police. Lisa Vanderpump said that Allie basically said, oh, yes, take him away.

Speaker 4 It'll teach him a lesson. But no, he didn't hurt her categorically.

Speaker 1 So now she's accusing Allie of playing a prank on James is kind of like a...

Speaker 4 No, I don't think that's what.

Speaker 1 I think she literally is saying that she says i don't think prank is the right word like to teach to teach her boyfriend a lesson to like what not yell at her is to take him to jail so they got according to lisa vanderpump they got in a little like silly argument and they were they were messing around and then allie because whatever the reason felt like she needed to teach james a lesson even though he did nothing wrong other than disagree with allie and allie then sent him to prison no she first first she told the police that she was picked up and thrown across the room.

Speaker 1 But I'm just saying, according to Lisa Van. According to Lisa Van.

Speaker 3 Oh, I know. Are we just completely discrediting what the police wrote?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 Like, Lisa just completely discredited what he said.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but Lisa is saying categorically. I want to break down Lisa's statement.
And Lisa's statement is accusing Allie

Speaker 1 of essentially playing a prank on James to teach him a lesson, using law enforcement and calling the cops to.

Speaker 4 Like a beyond scared straight kind of situation.

Speaker 1 That's what she's accusing Allie of. Making no mention that like this silly argument resulted into Allie breaking up with James, moving out, and deciding not to get back into that relationship.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's what she's saying.

Speaker 3 Kristen Doty responded to Lisa Vanderpump's statement and said, Absolutely and disgustingly diabolical. I will never ever be okay with this constant abuse-enabling behavior.

Speaker 3 To have the audacity to dumb down not only facts, but also feelings makes me sick to my stomach.

Speaker 3 To every woman who is a survivor of DV and wasn't wasn't believed or supported I'm so sorry I think Kristen said it all yep it's not a good look for her LVP that's for sure it is not a terrible look but it's it's standard to how she's been she'll defend Jack she defends short she defends Sandwell she defends every single person goes against the woman and now you're saying that like Ali is a silly goose who is like yes police were called but let me send him to jail to teach him a lesson like that's ridiculous they were both being ridiculous like yeah

Speaker 1 it's the language around it too just minimizing and now because and I don't know what happened behind closed doors or why James wasn't charged with anything I can make guesses and assumptions but because it they didn't move forward with this now LVP and anyone else is in a position to kind of like low-key blame Allie or like scapegoat you know it's all it's you know she was being ridiculous she taught him a lesson It's like she broke up with him.

Speaker 1 So it's like, what? So.

Speaker 7 You just would have thought that LVP would have had a more PR like neutral statement, you know?

Speaker 3 Just being like, I don't stand for any violence, period.

Speaker 1 And like, yeah.

Speaker 3 That could have been her statement.

Speaker 7 Her rolling statement was, well, she was teaching him a lesson and that didn't actually happen.

Speaker 3 It's also like if

Speaker 3 clearly James Kennedy is sick, he has addictions.

Speaker 1 He and

Speaker 1 his addictions, like it's, it's always like, it's always stated as like an excuse.

Speaker 3 I'm not saying it as an excuse. I'm saying that this is clearly what happens when he's drunk.
I don't know what happens when he's not drunk.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it's

Speaker 3 correct. And I think it, it lies more with like, he cannot acknowledge the fact that when he is drunk, he is violent towards people in his life.
And I think that is where this like issue with me is.

Speaker 3 I can understand like people have addictions and it makes them do things out of character or out of pocket. I've seen it with my own eyes.

Speaker 3 And like, and then when they're not, when they're, when they're sober, when they're not on drugs, they're a completely different person. I get that.

Speaker 3 But it's like the fact that he isn't able to sit back and say, I do this when I am drinking or I do this when I'm not drinking is like a problem for me.

Speaker 3 And Lisa also has at least four seasons where there is confrontations with James and a female.

Speaker 3 So it's like for you to act like you don't know that this is a part of his history and therefore undermine not only the history of what he's done, but then have another current situation to where now you're victim, you're putting the blame on the person whom it actually happened to, like.

Speaker 3 It's sick. It's, she's discrediting every woman who's ever spoken out against James Kennedy.
Yeah, because it's not like this is like a random allegation.

Speaker 3 It's like, no, there's proof of evidence of his behavior repeatedly while he was an employee of your restaurant, of your TV show, and yet you won't say anything. He's no longer employed by you.

Speaker 3 And yet you still will not acknowledge the fact that his behavior is disgusting.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. Crazy.

Speaker 7 She's also a big advocate for abuse against people that abuse pets and dogs.

Speaker 1 I was going to say against animals, not people.

Speaker 1 She pointed out in this episode that she likes animals more than people. Yeah.
So maybe. Well, that's clear.
Yeah. Clear.

Speaker 1 You know, not that you should be physically abusing animals or people, but clearly we know where Lisa stands. Hopefully she's not going to hook any of these ladies up with James.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, knowing Lisa.
Ah, she'll have them wash dogs for her for free.

Speaker 3 So, hey, that's great. Would you rather be washing dogs? Would you rather be on a private jet to Vegas?

Speaker 1 Oh, true. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Talk about short end of the group date, stick.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Imagine one of the group dates is going to the Beverly Center and then the other one is a private jet.
I would be so mad.

Speaker 7 They did have good chemistry when they were jumping off the building, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 I was like, that's giving couple goofy energy.

Speaker 3 No, I loved Parisia and him doing the chest. Chubby bunny.

Speaker 3 That was so funny. I'm rooting for her.

Speaker 4 I want her to win.

Speaker 1 I love her. Which one is she? Marissa.
Maricia is the one who did the PowerPoint.

Speaker 4 She has the rocks. She did.

Speaker 4 She's kind of a little weirdo. I like her.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 I'd hang out with her. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It looks like Latia is going to win.

Speaker 7 Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I told you all that.

Speaker 3 Should we get into some Salt Lake City?

Speaker 1 Britney came. Britney showed up.

Speaker 3 Did she ever?

Speaker 1 Did she? Why wasn't she in the first two episodes? Because she turned up.

Speaker 3 But the best is she's like, where's my grand entrance?

Speaker 3 Like, hello, roll the corner.

Speaker 1 I should be back there. I should be back there.
This is ridiculous. And she's like, I thought she's going to storm in.
They do her so damn. Why am I not?

Speaker 4 I've been working on a Britney, you guys.

Speaker 1 Why? Because she's so right. She's so right.

Speaker 1 This was... So much more enjoyable than her not being out there.
I don't understand.

Speaker 7 And then they brought her out and they were like, well, actually, we have your casting tape. And I was like, oh, oh,

Speaker 3 her laughing about her being estranged from her children was insane.

Speaker 3 And then to like point the finger at Bronwyn and be like, you did this while she's in her casting video, be like, I'm estranged from my kids.

Speaker 1 Don't touch me.

Speaker 3 There's drama there. My kids just.
Like, you're pitching. You're pitching you not having a relationship with your daughters as a reason to get on this show is crazy.

Speaker 1 She is

Speaker 3 for TV. And the text from Jared Osmond to Bronwyn.

Speaker 4 Can we read it?

Speaker 3 Disgusting.

Speaker 4 I guarantee I am twice the size of any man you've ever been with. I could certainly pick apart all of your anatomy, but I'll remain classy in the public eye and keep it between you and me.

Speaker 7 Why is he DMing other women?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 why does he think it's okay to speak to anyone that way?

Speaker 7 Why is Jared Osmond?

Speaker 1 Literally, why is Jared Osmond? What does that mean? Why can you mean?

Speaker 1 And not Heather.

Speaker 1 Literally. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Not a good one. I would never put Micro Peters and Osbid in in the same set of things.

Speaker 1 I really, I never hated Heather more than in that moment. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And this was after last week when I was just like, Heather, you're like the future of the show and you should be like the leader and like rise up.

Speaker 4 No, her Mormon trauma came back up as soon as the word Osmond got uttered.

Speaker 7 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 It was bizarre that she was not supporting Bronwyn and women and being like, well, you did say he had a micropenis. So he kind of has like right.
And she didn't even say it.

Speaker 1 It was said to her.

Speaker 3 She was part of a conversation that like it was, that was upsetting for, for and then even for Mary to be like I like Jared. He's never done anything.

Speaker 1 It's like you just heard the text he read like sent to okay, but Mary's very tough.

Speaker 3 I don't, but it's like if I hear if I hear someone sending that text to anyone, I'm like, immediately, I have a different opinion of that person, whether it was sent to me or sent to you. 100%

Speaker 3 if they're capable of saying those words, I don't want to, I don't like that person.

Speaker 1 And I am definitely comfortable with this double standard. Like, I don't care what Brawen might have text Jared Osman, you know, but for Jared, or is it Osman? She didn't text it anyway.

Speaker 1 The other way around. Whatever.
But even if she did, for Jared to write Brawen that message and in that tone and be comfortable speaking to him in that way,

Speaker 1 you're sick. Like, if you think there's a level, like, yeah, it's like that, it's not your, it's barely this person you know.
It's an acquaintance. Like, it's not even a friend.
She's a married woman.

Speaker 1 Thank you. You're talking about your penis size because, like, you heard a rumor.
Like, if you're so, like, why would that bother you? If your dick's so big, it doesn't bother you. 100%.
It doesn't.

Speaker 1 And you're all sleeping with Bronwyn.

Speaker 3 So, why do you care what she thinks of you?

Speaker 4 He's the Chet Hanks of the Mormon Church.

Speaker 1 Yes. He's just,

Speaker 1 yes.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Yes.
And honestly, I think that's disrespectful to Chet Hanks because, like, every once in a while.

Speaker 4 He says something funny.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Every once in a while, like, he has a white boy summer. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Jared, be more like Chet.

Speaker 3 Did you also hear Brittany constantly saying that, like, Jared, and he kept texting single women? And I was like, why do you keep clarifying that he's texting single women?

Speaker 3 Because Because he had, did you get in trouble recently for only texting married women?

Speaker 1 I mean, they're back together currently today.

Speaker 3 So it's like, I can't, I just, I just, she is still actively following him.

Speaker 7 I just checked.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and he's on private though.

Speaker 7 He's following who? Brittany's following Jared, but I can't see Jared's account because it's private now.

Speaker 1 Well, they're debating.

Speaker 3 It said on the reunion, like, edit. They are back together since filming.

Speaker 7 December is when they did the official post.

Speaker 3 My favorite is that she kind of used like love bird, love bombing, like, uh, like it's a verb or something.

Speaker 3 She was was just like, and then he love bombs me, and he's so good at love bombing that I'm back. And it's just like, Run's like, if you know he's love bombing you.

Speaker 1 I don't think she understands the

Speaker 1 notion of love bombing.

Speaker 3 I feel like maybe she thinks it's like, oh my God,

Speaker 3 he loves me so much.

Speaker 1 And it's like kind of like bombs me. And flowers.
It's like, and I love you with flowers. Literally.

Speaker 7 She admitted she might not be mature.

Speaker 1 She did admit that. We got something.
She may be immature. She was like, that was kind of endearing.
She's like, I do have maturity issues.

Speaker 1 But nothing else she could she could understand well that that is an all-encompassing flaw immature if you're in your six how old is she 60 50 i don't want to 60

Speaker 1 i mean my mom's 60 she might be she might be she might be

Speaker 1 you can't really find it on the internet i know i had to find her year of birth anyways if she's in her 50s and acknowledging she's 53.

Speaker 1 oh yeah if she has an immaturity issue yeah that's that's kind of bad at 53.

Speaker 3 yeah it's like is it a flaw or is it like a character characteristic of yours now? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Kind of who you are.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's like it's ingrained in you.

Speaker 1 And if you are immature, what does that also lead to and cause? It kind of, again, it's all-encompassing. It's giving chaos.

Speaker 3 She also really stuck to her guns about Meredith throwing up, which it bothers me that Meredith has like the biggest reaction to this.

Speaker 3 It's like, bitch, you think I was throwing, like, I wasn't throwing up. What a fucking weirdo.

Speaker 3 Like, I wish she'd just be like, No, but she, Meredith gets so activated by Brittany being like, no, you, I, that, there's a specific sound to throwing up, and I definitely, and I definitely heard it.

Speaker 1 It's like you simultaneously know she may have no idea what she's talking about, but at the same time, she says it in a way where she's like so convinced, and you know, she can't be reasoned with, which is merit, like, that's all Meredith has is reasoning,

Speaker 1 at least in her mind.

Speaker 4 It's, it's like for, for Meredith to argue with Britney is like, it's like square peg round hole. It just does not, it does not compute

Speaker 4 because Meredith is is so much smarter than Britney. And to talk to somebody who is just truly not going to understand anything you're saying because of her perspective.

Speaker 1 Brittany. Which one is the truth? She's like, well, all of them.
They were all kind of. I still believe her, by the way.

Speaker 4 It breaks Meredith's brain.

Speaker 1 I believe her version. At this point,

Speaker 1 they emotionally beat her up so much in that moment that if she had any intention

Speaker 1 of... It was, though, for someone's mind.
It was. That was brutal.

Speaker 4 It was brutal.

Speaker 1 I guarantee you, Brittany has convinced herself that she never meant to record these women.

Speaker 3 She's convinced herself that the editing team has elongated the amount of time she was recording, and she still stands by the fact that it was only two to three seconds.

Speaker 3 And she's like, no, they made it longer. And Andy was like, they can't do that.

Speaker 7 20 seconds while people are screaming gives two seconds.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, Mary said, get over it. It's done.

Speaker 1 And hopefully you're not. You are too.

Speaker 3 She's had no time for Britney's nonsense.

Speaker 3 Did you see when Meredith was talking about how she's like a forgiving person and people deserve second chances? And Brittany was like, well, what about me?

Speaker 1 And then she,

Speaker 1 what about me? Do you forgive me? Do you forgive me? She's like, of course. She did.
We're talking about her.

Speaker 3 And then immediately she was like, and you were throwing up. So, well, you were throwing up.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 Well, what's worse? Calling Monica or calling Jenshaw? Because that was the whole conversation.

Speaker 3 And receiving a call from Jenshaw. But answering the call, being on the call list.
Which is a question Whitney said of like, are Heather, are you on her call list?

Speaker 3 I had a friend once who was in prison prison and you have to be like

Speaker 3 approved to be on their call list. And you like, that's

Speaker 1 I do not know prison protocol.

Speaker 3 Yep. Well, that's one of them.
Got to be on the call list. And so Meredith has been like, yeah, sure, you can add my number on there.
And yeah, you can.

Speaker 1 You have to get approved to be on the call list?

Speaker 3 You think they're going to let you call?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that's

Speaker 3 maybe it's different state by state.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's the first step.
It definitely, like, Meredith had, that's basically saying Meredith had two chances to reconsider her choice.

Speaker 3 But it is crazy.

Speaker 1 It It makes it more premeditated.

Speaker 3 It is crazy that Jen Shaw was able to say what she said about Meredith's children and Meredith to like forgive her, which she sat on this couch and she told us about that call and about having that conversation with Jen Shaw.

Speaker 3 But I guess for me, yeah, it's like, and I, and this is where I stand with Lisa on this is like, if you fuck with Nick or River, like you are dead to me.

Speaker 3 Like I, you know, and it's like the fact that Jen Shaw was able to fuck with Meredith's kids and she still takes her calls and my family.

Speaker 1 Again, Lisa talks shit about other people's families all the time.

Speaker 1 And she's on this episode, like going at Whitney being like, you came for John and you came, man, man. And if you do that, man, man, man.
So it's like, okay.

Speaker 1 But again, Monica made a fucking roast page about a group of women on a show she wasn't on at the time and about her awful person, boss.

Speaker 3 I don't even know what the fuck the relationship between them were, but like, how is she worse?

Speaker 3 than Jen Shaw defrauding the elderly and taking advantage of people and lying until the day that she had to confess.

Speaker 1 I am not here to say what these women should do with Jen Shaw, but if they are going to give Jen Shaw grace,

Speaker 1 you have to give Monica grace. 100%.

Speaker 3 I agree.

Speaker 1 I think the producer should say if you want one back, you have to get the other back. Boom.
Well, that would be fun.

Speaker 4 I think that if they were both back on Salt Lake City, the entire show would implode and that the balance that they've reached would be completely ruined.

Speaker 7 Well, this balance can stay forever.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I know.
Fuck balance.

Speaker 4 But let it, like, let me have it for a couple more seasons.

Speaker 7 Well, they're coming back next season.

Speaker 1 So I know.

Speaker 1 I can't take much more of Lisa, period.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, if Jen. Never mind.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to say what.

Speaker 1 And I guess I just need someone to, like, Lisa has had, you know, again, I'm not the historian on Salt Lake that you guys are, but it sure seems like since Jen Shaw has been in prison, Lisa has risen to her throne.

Speaker 1 It's, it's, it's Lisa's world. She's Queen Bee.
It's her show. It's her universe.
She's the shot caller. She has her minions.
Yeah, you got like some of the the other women like combating.

Speaker 1 You got Browen, but like, you know, and before it was Jen Shaw.

Speaker 1 And now it's like, I'm just kind of tired of Lisa being in charge, in control, the show centered through and around Lisa. I think we need something else.

Speaker 7 I think we also need people not going after Lisa. Because I will say, like, after this reunion, like, looking back, every season, it's people kind of attacking Lisa's character.

Speaker 7 So she's always responding in defense.

Speaker 1 Sure. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
We need something else, but something stronger, something. Monica.
Yeah. We need Monica.

Speaker 4 We need the only one that can take Lisa Barlow down is Monica.

Speaker 1 Or just so much of a distraction that they like, yeah, they lay off of Lisa. They, you know, like Lisa's antics seem less, less threatening because you have to deal with Jensha and Monica.

Speaker 7 Or Lisa can actually be a friend because she doesn't have to defend herself.

Speaker 1 And then, like, that will give the opportunity for people to come together.

Speaker 3 But that's why it was so great watching them finally get to that point, Whitney and Lisa, and just burning it and hugging and calling it a day, letting each other know if you say this, if you do that, pour the gas.

Speaker 1 Give me Mary. Give me Monica.
Give me Whitney. Give me Angie on Team Alpha.
And then give me Jen. Give me Heather.
Give me Lisa. Give me Meredith.
Give me Brawen on Team Alpha. Alpha.

Speaker 1 We'll put Brittany on Team Bravo.

Speaker 3 I don't think Jin Shaw needs to be awarded with the TV show.

Speaker 4 I don't either.

Speaker 1 I agree with you. I don't think Jen, well, people have used the word deserve.

Speaker 1 This is TV. No one deserves a second chance on TV.
No one deserves a first chance on TV. So I don't think anyone deserves it.
But if they're going to bring them back,

Speaker 3 she is good tv i'm on the unpopular side of bring her back 10 years later i don't not yet i have angie now and like and exactly and i love angie too the one-liners and she doesn't have she she might go low but it's just not like jen shaw i feel grimy low but you need someone to throw the glass at the cameraman every once in a while

Speaker 4 that's a joke but exactly i think the thing is like maybe maybe jen comes back healed Maybe Jen comes back with her anger issues like figured out where she is not fighting with vitriol and hate and disgust.

Speaker 4 But the thing about these girls is as much as they're fighting and as much as they're hate as they hate each other, it's all out of joy. They are enjoying doing this.
They are enjoying throwing these.

Speaker 4 Angie, when Angie blacks out and says someone has one foot on a banana peel, she is doing that out of like a joy of fighting.

Speaker 4 And I think that Jen Shaw is doing it out of like such a deep place of like meanness and hatred that it just like sucks all the air out of the room and I don't enjoy it on my TV screen.

Speaker 3 There's a reason why they tell like recovering addicts and alcoholics, like, don't go back to the same group of friends, the same group of people, that you were doing all of this stuff that was making you feel like these choices were right.

Speaker 3 I feel like Jen Shaw being put back into this group of women. She's going to have that like reaction where it's like, now I'm back in my element, even though I'm healed or a better version of myself.

Speaker 3 She's going to slowly start slipping into like the petty bullshit trying to make television. And it's like, if you're going to heal, heal.
But like what she did was absolutely disgusting.

Speaker 3 So I'm like, I don't think that she deserves a platform.

Speaker 1 It's hard to disagree.

Speaker 7 But her with her whole giant closet of fake luxury, like they would tear her to shreds immediately.

Speaker 1 Well.

Speaker 7 Like, I feel like it would be like just good TV of like.

Speaker 3 But they had four seasons to do it and no one could step up to Jen Shaw.

Speaker 1 So that's where it's like, no, she's not going to be shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Heather's definitely not going.

Speaker 3 Well, even Heather looked completely broken, whereas like Meredith talking about having spoken to Jen and whatnot. And it's like, the woman gave her a black eye.
Like,

Speaker 3 why are we sitting here pretending that she's not going to be...

Speaker 1 Bring Monica back.

Speaker 1 My thoughts are going to be like.

Speaker 1 Oh, 100% bring Monica back.

Speaker 7 I've been saying that. They're never going to.

Speaker 1 They wanted to.

Speaker 3 But also, my favorite too is Lisa talking to Angie, trying to like reason out things with Meredith. And she was like, Meredith is a lawyer.

Speaker 1 I'm a fucking hairstylist.

Speaker 3 Like, she should be taking me to town. Like, why are you stepping in and defending the lawyer when let the lawyer speak for herself?

Speaker 1 I love Angie.

Speaker 4 Went to law school, never actually practiced law. I'm going to miss these girls so much on the offseason.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, I think that will wrap up today's episode.
Thank you to our guests, Derek and Allie Joe.

Speaker 1 Tomorrow we have a very special amazing going Deeper with none other than Britney Spears' ex-husband Sam Ascari. You know him from Traders.

Speaker 1 If you have been wondering about who this man is, what is he all about? What did Britney see in him? You will not want to miss this episode.

Speaker 1 I was kind of blown away.

Speaker 1 Man has a lot to say. Man has a lot to say, and he says it tomorrow on Going Deeper.
We'll see you then. Bye.