E882 - Traitors w/ Derrick, Bach w/ Alli Jo, Paige & Craig, LVP Talks James Kennedy, and Super Bowl Recap

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You're crazy. what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the valve files reality recap edition i'm your host nick the super bowl happened last night and i Valentine's Day socks.
Oh, man. So cute.
It's Valentine's Day week. I love the little hearts.
Did you know it was Valentine's Day week, honey? Oh, my gosh. I sure did.
Okay. On Friday.
Sounds convincing. There'll be hugs and flowers.
Hugs? You know I made you a basket. A Valentine's Day basket.
And I got you flowers, but we'll be traveling and I have to reschedule those flowers. I already ordered the flowers.
I've already curated your basket, but a basket has so many different things in it. Yeah.
I mean, there's no basket for you. There's still time.
Is this like a stocking stuffer? Kind of. It's a Valentine's Day basket.
It's like an Easter basket, Valentine's Day basket. Just go to Target.
I was walking through Target the other day, and the way that they have multiple aisles of the cutest little Valentine's Day gifts, and I'm like, it really is so easy. It also is so easy because Nick has a running wish list in his notes app that we both share access to.
There's no stocking stuffer ideas in there. But is there a bag perhaps that could fit in a stocking? Maybe a bag.
I think there's a pair of shoes. Like a couple of...
A pair of earrings that could peck away easily. Yeah, apparently.
I just wanted to give the Philadelphia Eagles a congratulatory shout out. You know, good for them.
They won the Super Bowl. And I say this as someone who really hates them.
I was rooting for them. I was rooting for them too.
I didn't watch. But credit to them and their fans.
You know, shout out to their fans. If you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan, it really was like a dream season.
You guys were the best team pretty much the whole year. So congrats to you guys.
And Nick Sirianni though. Honestly, if you don't know anything about the Philadelphia He's their coach He's a good looking guy

He's been known to argue with his players

Argue with fans

Argue with some of the coaches

He's definitely in some circles

An easy guy to critique

That sounds not so hot

Some people thought he was going to get fired

But I gotta say at the end of the game

Really presented family man

Listen I always respect someone Who has a lot of critics who says, fuck Illinois, and comes out on top. And he very much did.
Period. Did you know that Jalen Hurts, he's the quarterback for the Eagles? He is hot.
He, since not last year, but the year before when they lost in the Super Bowl against the Chiefs, there's a famous picture of him that went viral of him walking off the field with the red and gold confetti falling everywhere. As a loser.
Just as a loser, they lost. Yeah, not as, you know, he lost the game.
They lost the game. And he's walking off the field, and he said that that photo has been his wallpaper up until yesterday.
On his phone? Yeah. Like his motivation.
That's awesome. Mary Desladi looked hot.
I think it was like a motivation. He was like, he was like, damn, even when I lost, I look good.
And then he wasn't, you know, who wasn't in Abbott Elementary? Any of the chiefs. That's all I'll say about that.
How do you think Taylor Swift handled Travis's, you know, loss? Like, what do you think her technique is? I think she handled it as well as she got booed. She did get booed.
But I will, in Taylor's defense, I think it was, I would think it was heavily Eagles fans. That's what it seemed like to me.
I think Eagles fans were booing the Chief fans. I don't think this was like people booing Taylor Swift.
Could be wrong. I don't think so.
If Taylor Swift can sit through half of a stadium booing her and she can just sit there and take that like i can take anything that comes my way so how do you think taylor consoles trav yeah i asked you because you're like the one who i have my technique with you and that's duct tape my mouth shut i think you give them time yeah i think you the worst thing i'll never forget this fight i got in with like one like a first girlfriend who thought like and she wasn't trying to console me she was trying to irritate me it was after the packers lost to the philadelphia eagles fourth and 22 no packers it was fourth and 22 all they had to do was stop fourth and 22 and they didn't the eagles won that game and right afterwards she was like just hanging on me and just thought she could make it all better and wasn't she like why won't you hug me touch me why won't you hug me like am I why am I not enough you know because you're not you don't play defense 280 pound bloodbathbacker if Taylor really wanted help Travis, she would have gotten on the field because I know she can run laps around them. You know what she does on those stadiums? I hope she doesn't go home, turn on, shake it off, and start dancing in the middle of the living room.
I doubt she would, but I did see the video of him walking into her suite after and he looked so sad. He looked good, though.
He did. Very handsome.
There were a lot of people saying- The hair's flowing. The hair's flowing.
I did see some funny tweets. He actually looks better sad.
You think? Yeah. Do you think Jason is sad for retiring a year too early? I mean, his brother beat him two years ago in the Super Bowl.
Then last year, his team barely even made the playoffs, and then he lost in a very kind of tragic end of the year for the Eagles. Well, sometimes people say, like, maybe they wouldn't have won if Jason would have been there.
Like, maybe everything was perfect the way that it was and throwing a little, like, something different in. They did win by a lot.
I think if I was Jason Kelsey and I got to just sit back and watch my boys beat my brother, that would be really fun. Did they ask Jason who he would be rooting for? Did he say? I'm assuming somewhere in the 5,000 questions he's been asked, he didn't say.
Would it not be the Chiefs? You would think his brother, but he played his whole career with the Eagles. It's not his brother's team.
Oh, he said, I would be lying if I said, I don't want the Eagles to win. I want them to.
But I also want Travis Kelsey to to win so that's a long-winded way of saying i just want a good football game and whoever wins i'm going to be happy for that guy it wasn't really that good of a football game it was kind of it was a shitty football game we started watching trade we started we finished traders but did you see the google pixel commercial which one was that one it was when he was the dad was like applying for a job and he was like it was like to ai or something Pixels AI. And it was like, what is the hardest job that you have ever had? And he explains parenting.
And it's like, what was the most rewarding thing you learned from that job? And it's about parenting. And it's like, and how have you worked as a team? And it's about parenting.
And it was just so sad. And he had a little girl and she grew up and she went to college.
And he was being able to depend on people who also depend. Well, speaking of AI commercials, really hated the Martha Stewart.
Dancing. Dancing.
For Skechers. For Skechers.
Hated that. How did Martha approve that? That was not giving grace and sophistication.
Wow. I like to think the approval was a good paycheck.
Yeah. I was like, I feel like most of the commercials were AI for the Super Bowl.
Terrible. Yeah.
It was so gross. Some of them were just like two people face to face.
I don't even know if the Snoop Dogg Tom Brady one. I was like, is this AI? These two people don't look like they're in the same room together.
It just is like really depressing. Super Bowl commercials used to mean something.
Yeah. You know what I mean? They never meant anything, but they were better.
No, do you remember that Bud Light one with the horses? With the horses? Oh, the dog. There's a lot of good Bud Light.
No, that one, yeah, Bud Light always precious. The Cindy Crawford pet pee commercial is an all-timer.
Did they have one this year, the Bud Light? I don't know. I was trying to skip through to get two currently in the football game, and Nick wouldn't allow me.
I was like, the commercials used to be for everyone. I put River to bed, and we pressed pause on the game when I put River to bed.
And then River's asleep. We're about 12 minutes behind the game.
We're talking to no one. No one's on their phone.
And now I felt the need to catch up. Fast forward to real time.
I was like, who are we catching up with? It's just us. It's just you and I.
You have a burning desire to get on Twitter? She wanted to skip all the commercials, skip all the plays. I wanted to be where everyone was.
I felt like everyone else knew what was happening, and we didn't. And who were you texting with about the game? Nobody.
It was just an inner problem. You knew.
It was triggering. Almost as triggering as Craig's appearance on Watch What Happens Live.
We don't want to talk Kendrick Lamar's bootcut flare jeans. I loved them.
Yes, let's go back. I did not like the jeans.
Am I supposed to be wearing these in a year? You guys, he's 5'2". They made him look taller.
He's a short guy. No, loved.
Absolutely loved. They fit his body.
Okay, so this is not Like a cultural Like hey change up

Baggy pants

Or you know

We had skinny jeans

Now I have to go boot cut

I'm not close to it

I wouldn't say those are baggy

That's just

That's a good

Tight fitting boot cut

With a flare

Again that's my concern

I've just recently

Transitioned

Into a baggy jean

Honey

Honey

I don't think

Kendrick Lamar

Is giving us

The next fashion trend

I think he's just

Doing what works for him

Okay but like artists Or musical artists Int next fashion trend. I think he's just doing what works for him.
Okay, but like artists or musical artists

intend to start trends.

I think that him calling out Drake like that

in those jeans is the best thing that could ever happen.

Like if your biggest hater wears a bootcut flair

and everyone cheers for him for your demise.

It's going to be hard for you to come back.

It's really hard for you to come back.

And why do we care about Drake and Lamar fighting?

I mean, I know... wears a bootcut flair and everyone cheers for him for your demise it's gonna be hard for you it's really hard for you to come back why do we care about drake and lamar fighting i mean i know they're fighting it's yeah it's like one of the biggest rap beefs that have happened in history and that was like a full year yeah his district won a grammy okay he called drake a pedophile and everyone like cheered drake is suing is Is Drake a pedophile? Well, allegedly.
Allegedly. And according to the Grammys.
And the NFL. Golden Globes.
And the Golden Globes. What was it that they sang? Oh, the Grammys, you're right.
Yeah, the Grammys. Everyone in the recording academy went, a minor.
And they literally, during Kendrick's performance, they unmuted the audience during that line. So you could hear everyone in the stadium yell a minor.
That was a good performance. Yes.
He also wore a necklace with a lowercase a. And he cheesed so hard when he said, hey, Drake.
And he brought both of his ex-girlfriends out. Yep.
I watched this performance and I was like, okay, great.

And then,

I really thought about it.

That's a lot of energy to focus on Drake,

to be honest.

He's a true hater.

He didn't put a Grammy.

Drake tried.

Drake tried.

It's a funny feud.

Yeah,

Drake tried

and got demolished.

But he also is like

suing the production company

that is,

that like put out

the Kendrick Lamar.

Isn't it his own record label actually? It's like his record label. record label he's suing them for basically being like wow that's crazy but not Kendrick Lamar so did he lie or not exactly because he's suing I think the record label or something for defamation or something but he's not suing Kendrick Lamar who actually said the things that you would be suing for well it doesn't't his record, I mean, you would sue Would you not sue the person that's directly in a law with the record label? Is Kendrick Lamar, I mean I'm not a lawyer, I don't know how it works.
My point saying is Kendrick Lamar did not lie, because you have nothing to sue him for. Isn't he suing his label? He's suing the label for putting it out.
The label has more money. For money, exactly.
Okay, well Drake's hiding in Australia right now, where Kendrick is on stage at the Super super bowl so i think we know who won yeah game over well i can move on with this week now knowing before we get into our next topic don't forget to check out vile files plus you can sign up for it on vile files.com or if you listen to this podcast through apple podcast you can sign up directly through that platform check out our pop extras every week which is all your favorite pop culture topics we didn't get to talk about during reality recap or a Vanderpump recaps or our update specials, which is all your favorite updates to some of the juiciest stories on Ask Nick and texting office hours. That's all on Vile Files Plus.
So check it out. It's free to sign up.
You get a seven day free trial. It's a lot of fun.
You won't regret it. We'll see you all there.
Well, Paige and Craig, Craig is also moving on, allegedly, according to him. He doesn't want to be involved.
I was very triggered by this. I was.
I really feel for Craig. For those of you who don't know, Craig went on Watch What Happens Live last Thursday and was asked by Andy Cohen about his breakup with Paige, specifically asked about the accusations that Kyle and Amanda threw Craig's way about not, quote unquote, sticking up for Paige amidst the accusations that Paige has moved on too quickly from Craig, a la like allegations about cheating and things like that.
And this was Craig's response. Just podcast, she was clear she never cheated physically or emotionally.
Do you co-sign that? I'm just, I'm great. I don't want to be involved.
Like, I got- Well, you are involved. No, I'm not.
I got broken up with. I'm the ex-boyfriend.
I'm the ex-boyfriend now moving on with my life. Okay.
I'm not going to get sucked into the mud with them. Like her cast, like commenting on how I'm grieving and that I'm sorry that I'm not reading Reddit every day and getting on there and defending her.
Like, I never said you cheated. So I'm not a part of this.
Amanda chimed in to say you should have defended page mental against the cheating rumors, but instead said the dogs after her because you like sympathy because page lied on her podcast and said the breakup was mutual. I like that.
I didn't tell her what to say. I got a text and she said, I'm announcing it on my podcast.
And then she said it was mutual, which it wasn't. I didn't know about it.
She called me and told me. Um, and she said, yeah, that was pretty much, I mean, it's been a whirlwind, but yeah.
So I've been sitting in it, listening to people be like, love isn't enough. Guess what? Love is enough.
And I hate that I'm being drug into that. If two people love each other, you'll make it work.
And for all the long distance people watching, like we didn't want different things. She just wanted other people and that's fine.
Like she didn't want those things with me anymore. And like, I'm not mad at her for that, but like, I don't like this.
Love isn't enough thing. Cause like, you'll make it work.
I really felt the guy there. I agreed with everything he said, except for the love is enough part.
But when Craig was in that moment, it really brought me back to having my heart broken. And I just think there's just not...
I also compare this to the Rachel Coochon and Matt James breakup of it all. And I find it to be not surprising, but the audience's reaction to be...
Again, not not surprising but like polar opposites from like ultimately like we just have two two couples where two people broke up like one person decided they didn't want to be in a relation with the other person as far as we know there's no infidelity no like scandalous behavior like i get like i totally get why craig wasn't want to like jump up and like you know have his ex-girlfriends back but like i i believe page at the same time and then like the matt james breaks up with rachel and we're acting as if like he's matt james is on his way to africa on a one-way ticket he's been exiled from the united states because like pop culture nation and bachelorette nation is are eviscerating this guy because he didn't kind of go about it the right way.

But they seemingly broke up for the exact same reasons.

Like Paige broke up with Craig because she didn't see her like settling and marrying him.

And Matt broke up with Rachel because he said she had qualities that he didn't see in a wife.

It's the exact same thing.

Yeah.

And it's like Matt James is vilified and he's the breaker upper.

And Craig is being vilified and he's the one who got broken up with. And it's like, how did that happen? And I get it.
We're like, we listened to Rachel and she's like, you know, he broke up with me in Japan and I got on a plane. And then the next thing you know, like he's posting a prayer and everyone knows about it.
And again, that was weird on Matt's part. But like, imagine if Rachel was like, yeah.
And like, we like we broke up and then the next thing you know like i get a random text message from matt being like i'm announcing it on like one of the biggest podcasts in the nation and not asking not checking in just saying i'm going to do this and then you find out matt james like decided to like mention that it was a mutual breakup instead of the fact that he decided like instead the truth was, he was like, yeah, I just don't think your wife's material. Imagine the reaction.
We would lose our fucking minds if that's what Matt James did to Rachel. I'm just saying.
Well, Paige and Craig broke up Thanksgiving time. And then he wasn't ready to announce or go public with it it and she gave him the space and time yeah they had been broken up for a while and then she saw a post where he seemed single and so then she was like okay if he's going out looking single like must be time to announce this so she texted him and said that she was going to announce it on his pot her podcast and he didn't reply he never responded i don't think page anything wrong either i mean i guess but i don't think that people are like vilifying craig that much like i think that people are notifying both of them and if page is getting enough hate that she had she wanted support from craig and i think that like if they've been dating for long enough it's like you still care about each other just because it's not going to work out doesn't mean that you didn't put in a lot of time in that relationship and and have a lot of love for the person so i just think that like it's not a crazy ask to be like hey i'm getting kind of killed out i think it's i think it's a crazy it's a crazy ask to be like i need you to fight with trolls and reddit people for me it's an absolutely insane ask imagine if matt james went to rachel curtain all after the breakup and said can you like go again his heart is craig's heart is broken like i don't know if you've ever heard your heart broken or everyone listening who's had their heart broken but when your heart is broken when like someone that you were in your mind and with them at like not too long ago talking about a future with them even if they were like mentally checked out and you didn't even realize and then you find that person just doesn't want to be with you like and i listen no one's about like hey you gotta move on more than me because i'm someone who like struggled moving on from relationships but i know the pain it feels when like someone breaks your heart and craig has to do this on a national fucking platform and for all the people out there who are critiquing his watch what happens live performance and like appearance or in like December when he like when he was allegedly broken up with page and like kind of talked as if they were still together.

Like if I'm in Craig's shoes when I was having my heart broken, I truly don't know how I would have handled it or what that would be like.

Or like I'm not saying he handled it perfectly, but like man had a broken heart and and then page breaks up with him and again fine it doesn't sound like she was totally honest about like the fact okay listen i'm of the opinion like two people break up fine and like but if you're gonna be the if you're gonna break someone's heart then like you don't get to be the the sympathetic partner or the party you know't. You kind of are the bad guy.
You are. I don't think Paige should be criticized, but she broke someone's heart and she had the right to break their heart.
But if she's going to go on a podcast and not tell the truth, that is her spinning the narrative. On some level, she is trying to control the narrative because she is trying to get sympathy in some way from her audience by not saying hey listen i just didn't want to be with him like she wasn't cold like she didn't give the matt james hey listen i just don't think your wife material she didn't go you know she was just like hey i don't want to be with you and he she broke his heart and she has a right to do that but like page decided to go out to a philadelphia eels.
When I was in a public breakup, regardless, we were both happy to be out of that relationship. And nevertheless, we still decided to like hide for a couple months and be mindful of our behavior and be mindful of how we presented in public and who we were with because we just wanted to make it easy on ourselves and the other person.
Paige decided not to do that. And she had every right not to do that, but she doesn't get to then demand Craig to have her back online when people start critiquing and questioning who she's hanging out with.
Okay. Fair that Craig doesn't need to go scour Reddit, but when presented with the opportunity by Andy Cohen to squash the cheating rumors- How does he know what she's doing? I'm sorry.
No, like again, she has a broken heart. I'm sorry.
But to squash a cheating rumor is pretty easy. It's basically being like, no, she didn't cheat on me.
How does he know that? How does he know? And he also did say that he's like, I wasn't the one who said that you cheated. So therefore I am taking myself out of this.
I have nothing to do with it. But I'm not saying she did anything, but like he doesn't know what the fuck she's been up to.
And he feels like he was blindsided. Anytime someone blindsided me with a breakup, your first question is, is there someone else? Is there another guy? I mean, he said at the end of it, she didn't want me.
She wanted someone else. I'm sure he's had thoughts of maybe men she's been kind of talking to.
She literally had the guy from SNL like in the fucking comments joking with her about like actually cheating. And again, we all thought it was funny because it was a guy from SNL.
But if you're Craig in that moment, your heart is torn out. It's like I'm just saying like I know what it's like to be in Craig's shoes.
I don't think Paige did anything wrong. She has the right to do whatever the fuck she wants.
But to sit there and expect Craig to defend her honor, I think, is insanity. Right, because you can very easily say, I'm single and I can do whatever I want.
She is. It's clearly Paige is, as she should.
As she should. But to sit there and have Kyle and Amanda, which love, you know, they're great.
And have your girls back. girls back.
But like, Craig has every right to feel the way he does.

And he has every right to just be like,

that's her business.

I'm no longer her life anymore.

Like, do you think Paige checking in with Craig

when she's out with another guy in public

at a Phillies game?

How's your heart, Craig?

Just checking in?

I mean, I don't think they owe each other anything.

I don't.

I don't think that Paige was asking

this super huge big thing of Craig just to like.

She doesn't get to ask him anything.

Nothing.

Yeah.

Thank you. I don't think they owe each other anything.
I don't. I don't think that Paige was asking this super huge big thing of Craig just to like.
She doesn't get to ask him anything. Nothing.
Yeah. I mean, I don't know.
I don't disagree. But I also think that Paige has to navigate this breakup differently than Craig does because of her role, because she is a woman online.
And I think that like, I don't know. I don't necessarily think that he owes her anything.
But I think that when you are aware of the things that have been said about Paige, he could, and I'm not saying he has to, he could be like, you know what? Of course he could. That's fucked up.
Of course it would be the nice thing to do. But like he has the right...
He doesn't have to be nice. That's the thing.
He doesn't have to be nice. I don't think he is being...
But he did don't think but he did he sat on watch what happens live and he said i never said she cheated that is him defending her he said i know those words never came out of my mouth i'm not involved with reddit rumors i'm not involved with tiktok journalists i never said that so like take those rumors for what you will but i wasn't a part of them fair enough that's him defending her in my in my opinion yeah and i don't think he's not nice for not saying more you know like would he be extra nice if he went on and said like page would never and she's got you know she's the greatest person in the world and like her character is like second to none that would be the nicest thing of course but he's heartbroken and she's at an eagles game with another guy but so like yeah but to suggest that he's not being nice because he's just minding his own fucking business and trying to move on because clearly this is a man who has his heart broken. Well, he's also not going out of his way to say terrible things about.
No, he's not. You know what I mean? So on this on the flip side, you can even say it's balanced that you have Austin making commentary on page.
You've got Kyle and Amanda making commentary on on Craig, but he's not saying anything about Paige. He has not said that she's an awful person or that she deserves any of this.
And when he did do his little story, he made it very clear that we split. I was a little blindsided by it, but nobody deserves any hate.
Please be kind to Paige. Be kind to me.
And what else do you want him to say besides going on a daily PSA for his ex i i mean like watching last week's episode of southern charm when he had like the sit down with shep and and austin and like shep's mediating like i really feel like i know where craig's at in his life and i really feel for him he's in this like transitional period right he is clearly outgrowing his friends like so shep and austin are two guys who still like really want to hang on to like all the boys get together three four times a week play play golf drink beers you know swap stories and craig's like i want more i want a family i want to settle down i want to i want to create create a family like this is he wants like and nothing's been more enjoyable in my life than creating a family right so i get where craig's coming from he's outgrowing his best friends in the world. He's outgrowing them.
And then the person he wanted to outgrow them for decided to leave him. And again, she had every right to do that.
Like people break up, but like, he's 40 years old. He, he very much feels like probably alone and on an island.
Like, you know, I get, you know, it's like, I'm sure he has his friends, but that's not where he wants to be. You know, he be with this person who didn't want to be with him.
And he's right. She didn't want to be with him.
I mean, I will say the only thing I disagree with is love is enough because there's nothing I learned more about relationships is that you do have to have a lot in common with your partner. You have to enjoy doing things together on a regular basis.
Everything can't be a compromise. Certainly not where you live.
Certainly not like how you raise your kids. Certainly not like when you want to start a family.
Those are like what people call non-negotiables. And like those break up relationships all the time.
And so like I have learned the hard way because I used to be Craig. I used to be like, you can just muscle through love.
And like you have to like get along because like relationships in general are that hard. And even when you have so much in common,

tons of compromises have to be made.

And if you have to compromise all the time,

every day about every little thing,

like, I'm sorry, love just is not enough.

And like, you have to have the same timelines.

It's like, I think that's why me and you worked the way that we did

is because we both wanted the same things at the same time.

And I think clearly we see Craig and Paige not wanting not wanting the same thing also i think it's insane that people are reporting on him and sally being at nobu in uh in new york and like trying to make it a thing it's like they're cast it's a co-star like he's out to dinner with a fucking castmate with an employee with it with a co-worker yeah Come on, people. And even watching this week's episode where Paige and Craig are talking, I'm watching it with my boyfriend.
He looks at me and he's like, so who's in the wrong here? And I go, literally neither. They're both 100 percent right because Paige is saying, hi, I'm 31 years old.
I'm not ready to have kids and be settled down. I don't see myself on a farm in Charleston.
OK. And then you've got Craig who's like, OK, well, like when, when are you thinking, can I get a timeline? I'm ready to have kids.
I'm nearing 40. I want to be like active with my kids.
He's in the right too, for saying, I want to get married and have kids in the next two years. And Paige is in the right for saying, I don't want those things.
So like neither one of them are a bad guy in this situation. It's just unfortunate to people, exactly as you said, are just not on the same page.
To the person in his heart, you're breaking, you are the bad guy. and situation it's just unfortunate two people exactly as you said are just not on the same page the person in his heart you're breaking you are the bad guy and you sure in every breakup everyone wants to like that's why they're like it's not you it's me and that's why people say shit like that because they don't want to feel like a dick but you are breaking someone's heart you are and then that's just a like a tough fact of life and page is breaking craig's heart and maybe matt broke rachel's heart and like they just they're kind of the bad guy like i don't think us publicly need to vilify those people but like i do think page is trying to like spin it just a little bit where she doesn't like so she's not the bad guy at all where like and i don't think we should vilify her but her saying it was a mutual breakup was kind of shardy if you're craig with a broken heart that feels a certain type of way.
But does it feel better for her to go on her podcast and be like, yeah, I didn't want to be with him anymore, so I broke up with him? Would that feel worse for him? I mean, it's the truth. But could it be argued that she was trying to spare his feelings in that moment? I do not think for a second when she made that lie, she was sparing anyone's feelings but her own.
Because that that's people human nature i also can't imagine like craig sitting at home and like getting uh seeing a notification being like oh craig and paige breakup mutual and he's like what the fuck no it wasn't like i didn't want to break up with her i love her you know when you get your heart broken yeah you want that person to own what they did to you and if that what they did to you is breaking your heart you want them. He also said on Watch What Happens Live, she made me promise not to break up weekly.
And like that Uno reverse card is like wild. Like they would do like a pinky promise or something being like, promise you won't break up with me.
I mean, and that reverse card is. I would chalk that, I would chalk that in the category of like people say shit in relationships.
That's Craig being a little petty and a little heartbroken. Which, if I'm in Craig's shoes, I completely get said that and if you're in craig's shoes you're you're thinking of you're relitigating everything that was said to you and everything that now feels like a lie but that like she could have meant it at the time yeah sure exactly well exactly exactly like maybe it was a mutual breakup and he's just like there's no way to know like what the actual truth is because he he could have misremembered their conversation she could be misremembering their conversation like she could not be doing this intentionally like i'm gonna lie and make myself look better it could just be that her perception of the breakup was that it was mutual because they were on different pages that's insane leah this conversation you what that's your you you think page just misremembered and thought and thought her breakup with craig was mutual listening to page it was mutual like to page the pages perception was that it was a mutual breakup and that they were on like that would be like if someone cheated i mean like well i thought i had a hall pass it's only mutual if they both come together and they both are like we shouldn't be together The man went on Watch What Happens Live Knowing he was broken up Claiming that they had Christmas plans together Because he didn't know what to say So who's the liar in this situation They both You're comparing someone who didn't want to be In a relationship Who decided to leave the relationship who decided to go on her podcast and announce the breakup.
And then compared to someone who was going through a broken fucking heart, decided to fulfill his Watch What Happens live appearance shortly after his girlfriend broke up with him out of nowhere. And then because he didn't have a plan to talk about it publicly, you want to call him a liar and compare that to Paige? It's also like love page i love craig i loved them together clearly they weren't gonna work but it's like i love page too but let's be realistic a breakup is never it's always gonna be messy like no matter what it's always gonna be messy someone's gonna feel hurt and someone's gonna feel bad so it's like when there's no like kids marriage kind of thing in there where it's like you have a reason to mutually break up, most likely in a relationship, there's one person who has one foot out the door and one person who has no idea.
Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying, for the internet to be so one-sided about Rachel Kirkconnell and Matt James and then to be on the fence about Paige and Craig and like some people taking Paige's side.

People break up.

People, it's like, it's.

Yeah, people break up.

It's a relationship where they moved on and no one really did anything that wrong.

And like maybe didn't have the best approach to ending a relationship because there's no good approach.

People break up.

I want to be clear.

I'm not calling Craig a liar.

Not calling Craig a liar.

Just trying to add a little bit of devil's advocate here where it's like we were not there when they broke up. And so we don't know all the intricacies and the details.
And they could have different perceptions of how it went down and still be both speaking their truths. And neither one of them could be lying.
They could just have different perceptions of how it went down. If Paige, in fact, said, because I didn't listen to the episode, it was a mutual breakup.
I mean, listen, I're right. I wasn't there.
I guess Craig could be lying through his teeth, but I'm going to go ahead and believe Craig on this one. Misremember.
I'm just saying if it was mutual, then I'm sure we would have gotten some lame black screen white text on both pages. There's not one person rushing out to put the statement out on a podcast and one person refusing to talk about it.
If it's mutual, then it's like, this is, alright, we're done here, but for it not to be mutual, it's like one of us has to heal a little bit before we announce to the world, so let's tread lightly for a few weeks. Southern Charm also did pick up cameras we saw in the teaser, which is giving drama caught off guard blindsided.
100%. Truly, they love a pickup camera, which we gotta tease of that no they're just like after like this week's scene with page and craig you know he just he just wants a family page gives the word family gives her the egg she wants nothing to do with it she's not ready and that's totally fine but like these two you know that's where i am very much team page for like seeing what i think a lot of us have seen and what craig is struggling to see and he's just like, I love this person.
This should be enough. And I hope for Craig that he like sees, you know, why Craig made the decision.
Cause I, you know, listen, I'm not here to tell Craig, I'm not here to tell Craig who she, he should be in a relationship with or, and if I'm Craig, I don't want to hear me say things like, I don't, you know, I nothing, when you have a broken heart, you don't want to hear like reasonable people being like, just don't know if you two were a fit like you don't want to hear that but i do hope for craig that he sees what we see uh after he heals and like i just page was gonna fight the life he wanted to live for maybe forever i just don't think she wants what he wants i don't think she wants it in south carolina should we get into our daily Dilemma? Let's do it. Are you kidding me? I'm losing my mind.
The Daily Dilemma is a TikTok couple reveals a twist in their sleeping arrangements and why they no longer share a bed. The husband revealed he's been sleeping in their walk-in closet for a month and noted he dragged the guest bedroom mattress into the closet.
He says, my wife's not a huge fan of this arrangement, obviously. He clarified that the arrangement is temporary and shared that it was something I had to do just to prioritize my mental health.
I was not okay, he continued. I was really struggling and I was feeling awful, so that's why I'm here.
He also opened up about his constant battle with ADHD and anxiety and noted that was part of the reason why he chose to sleep in the closet. His wife said, I'm a lonely girl.
Say what you want, but I'm codependent and I hated being alone at night. She also added that it's been hard to go into the closet now since there's a queen size mattress in there.
He also explained that he saw his parents sleep separately growing up because they both had sleep problems and know that it had nothing to do with the health of their marriage. How would you feel if I was like, yeah.
Hey, absolutely love. Like there's two things that I have problems with.
And if you quoted mental health. There's two things I have problems with.
I don't help your mental health. Getting in at night and like cuddling, rubbing feet, touching in some sort of way with your partner doesn't like ease your mental health.
You have to go sleep in the cold closet surrounded by stinky

smelly shoes and the dirty laundry basket to like feel at ease yeah that's crazy i've sierra i know

you're fucking different because you're crazy yep you want you your team this guy i i get it listen

if it's affecting your mental health first of all second of all that i'm like depending upon i don't

know exactly why this person like fainting at 17 no my thing is like for example number one

Thank you. If it's affecting your mental health, first of all, second of all, that I'm like, depending upon, I don't know exactly why this person.

Like fainting at 17?

No, my thing is like, for example. That's problem number one.

My thing, for example, is that I'm like, in the morning, I get up early, right?

And I like, all my stuff, obviously, in the room.

If Connor wants to sleep in, you go sleep in the other room because I'm getting ready.

This is fucking with my mental health now because I'm tiptoeing around you trying to not wake daddy while I'm trying to get ready to go to work and you can sleep. That's a morning routine problem.
Yeah. That's not a going to bed and snuggling with your partner all night long problem.
Give me the full bed so I can starfish and sleep like a fucking queen. Period.
And then I'll see you in the morning. Good morning.
Kiss. Bye.
I mean, the fact that he's able to get on his podcast and publicly say that like him and his wife be like, yeah, I have to sleep in the closet because my mental health is not good. But my question is, this is kind of a spectacle because I'm like, you drug the mattress from the guest room to the closet.
It seems a bit dramatic. But I'm also like, why wouldn't you just sleep in the guest room? Or does he still to be near her by the closet yeah that's what it's what happens when him sleeping in the closet and pulling the queen-size mattress off the guest bedroom making a mess and fucking with their closet what happens when that affects her mental health oh my god so true exposure therapy or the fact that he's not in bed with her affect her mental health i think it's on tour right now and i'm right now and I'm a mess.
Can we just, have we gotten to the point where like you, you need to like, can we just invoke mental health? Like when does your mental health become more important than my mental health? And what happens when? Reverse uno mental card. It's like, I need a Valentine's day basket for my mental health.
Yeah. And I need to not give her one for mine.
Wow. I think it's like, if want to sleep in separate beds, sleep in separate beds.
No one really cares. But like if one person isn't happy about it, maybe that's a private conversation you should have.
And you should not go on your podcast and talk about it. I do think it's also hard when you have those clicks.
I do think it's also also hard when you have small children obviously like the only time we really get to connect with each other is like when rivers asleep and it's time for us to like go to bed and we get in the bed together and we get to like be by ourselves and watch a show and cuddle fuck and this and that you know and it's like they're not able to do that because he's snoring with the shoes.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Maybe clothes bring him comfort.

Also, in the Dick Van Dyke show, Mary Tyler Moore and Dick Van Dyke slept in separate beds.

And guess what?

That was a couple that had sauce. Also, my question.

If she wants to sleep in the closet with you, is that not allowed?

All right.

Well, sleep with your partners, people.

Or don't. Or don't.
But don't sleep in the closet next to them and claim mental health. Do what you want.
Well, you know what's good for my mental health? Talking to recently eliminated faithfuls on the show, Traitors. And up next, we have most recently deleted faithful himself, Derek, to give us the inside tea of everything that went down in the castle.
In the recently deleted or the deleted deleted? Huh? The deleted deleted. Up next, Derek.
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Thrive Market.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Derek! What's going on, buddy? What's going on? Not much, man.
Sad to see you voted out of the castle, man, or killed. Coming to you from heaven.
That's what it looks like? Is there a box that says homicide back there? Yeah. So we do a show twice a week.
This is all actual stuff from when I was a detective, all my case files and stuff. Okay.
Are you still a cop? No. I own a private investigative firm here in Rhode Island.
And so I've been a licensed PI since 2017. But now just a podcaster like everybody else.
Well, thank you for the service you gave in your time of service. My brother's a cop too.
So I just want to give a shout out to- Oh, awesome. Where's he at? He's in Wisconsin.
Wisconsin. Yeah.
It's funny. Are we recording right now? Are we going? We are.
Yeah, we are. So little funny story, Nick.
When I saw you on the list today, I was like a last minute yes for traders. I the logistics weren't going to work out at first

and then they did so I was in Nashville and I was getting ready to fly to Scotland and your name was

one of the names that was prominent as far as who was going to be on the show and so I knew you from

The Bachelor but I didn't know a lot about you but I was like all right let me start learning about

these people I may be playing against so I remember looking you up and finding out you're

from Wisconsin that you had recently gotten married your Your wife's name is Joy. Natalie.
Your daughter's name is River. Yes.
Am I got that right? Yes. Okay.
And I don't know if I can say it, but your daughter's birthday is a day before mine, which is why I remembered it. Can I say the date? Yeah, you can.
Yeah. Everyone knows.
February 2nd. Yes.
Yes. That's why I remembered it.
My siblings is February 3rd. Yeah.
And so I was kind of developing a case file on you without you even knowing. And you developed it for this.
Did you go in intimidated that I might be there or you thought you were going to absolutely absolutely going to crush me? No, in fairness, you do this talk to all different types of personalities so i was like this dude's going to be awesome at this game and i wanted to work with certain people who had those types of traits that would be good in a game like this so honestly i could have used you yeah sorry i went for dylan it didn't work out that way he was already in rob's pocket yeah truly he turned on you pretty quick. Watching it back, Dylan really seems like he's doing very well.
It really feels like this week was really interesting because he really, like you said, is in Rob's pocket. I wonder, do you think there's any world in which Dylan has suspected that Rob has been a traitor the whole time, but instead of going for it, he decided to

get on his good side or no, you think he's not quite at that level? We're all cool now. So

obviously we've had a chance to talk since the show. He was never going to turn on Rob.
I don't

think, I think after the Bob, the drag queen vote, he was just completely enamored by that

combination. And no, he did not know Rob was a traitor.
Think about it. Dylan was playing an aggressive game like me.
When he figured out Bob, the drag queen was a traitor. He went after him, even when no one else was because Rob helped get him over the edge.
He just felt a loyalty towards him. And I do think he was truly disappointed when he found out Rob was a traitor, not because he had betrayed his trust, but because then he realized he was someone who was protecting him.
So no, I love Dylan, but no, he was, he was hot on Gabby's trails at that point. That's actually not a throwaway vote.
There was a lot of conversations there where Dylan truly thought Gabby was a traitor and he was, he was trying to have another Bob, the drag queen moment. Ah, that makes sense.
Cause it was like, yeah, he's usually been on top of things, but the Gabby vote felt like kind of like out of pocket. Nah, he was telling me like, I think a traitor i'm like i don't know man i don't know i mean i gotta assume you weren't shocked to find out that you got murdered when you did just because you were on rob's trail so so well when you went to bed that night you're like i'm probably gonna get killed but like this is my chance of not getting killed what were you hoping that was going to go down instead of you being murdered? So when,

when Brittany approaches me after the round table,

I'm thinking she's also a traitor cause she's protecting,

she's protecting Rob.

So my hope was that for some reason,

they're going to be stupid enough to keep me.

And so what I wanted to do was get rid of one of Rob's votes and that was

Brittany.

So by calling Brittany out publicly and telling Dylan that my hope was that

if I survived,

Brittany wouldn't be able to defend Rob at the next round table.

Cause she would be defending herself.

Thank you. So by calling Brittany out publicly and telling Dylan that my hope was that if I survived, Brittany wouldn't be able to defend Rob at the next round table because she would be defending herself.
And so I was hoping I would be there to witness that. And it ultimately did work out, but just at my demise.
But listen, you know, I knew that Rob had two choices and both of them sucked. The first choice was to keep me in the game and go toe to toe with me again at the round table.
I don't think that would have worked out well for him, but who knows? Um, the second option was to leave me in the game and basically convince the rest of the cast or, or get rid of me and then convince the rest of the cast that, Oh, Hey, you know, they're framing me. And I think that's the route he went with.
I think he had more trust in the faithful getting it wrong than me not going after him again. Obviously, it didn't work out.
But if it did, he would have just grew that legendary status. I mean, I thought there was no way he was going to get out of it.
And he didn't. So there's that.
But he did make a very convincing argument where I really thought people were going to maybe go the Brittany direction. Because you're right he he got ahead of it early he tried to spin it early where he's like immediately as uh people found out that you got killed he started like kind of shouting out i'm being framed i'm being framed like he had a plan and he was already executing that plan and it sounds like this many weeks in you're thinking yeah why would a traitor kill the most obvious person? And it's, you know, Bob, if it's Bob, he wouldn't be smart.
He would be smart enough not to kill the most obvious person. So he really was thinking multiple steps ahead.
It was. But I mean, when Tom Sandoval has you packed, you're cooked.
Yeah, yeah. That's the point.
I do think I do think, you know, you know how these shows go. I think as soon as I didn't walk in that was it for Rob I think Lala could have gotten Rob out that night honestly um it he was a dead man walking and he you know I think he might have even knew that Rob's a methodical player he's very analytical in what he does but you did see a little bit where in that turret he's like I want my revenge that's not rob you know but ultimately he wanted to get me out i think he was a little surprised uh by me coming out like that and i think he figured hey i may not get out of this alive but neither are you and i respect that two east coast guys i love the way we went out it was i mean certainly rob you know but in both of you guys like made your mark and rob as much as we've talked about the past few weeks of like him you know being legendary rob he definitely kind of burned out pretty quickly you know like kind of to your point it's like his moves were good but they weren't so good that like you know there's a lot of people left and he's already gone so like and he had he had the protection.
Hey, I'm gone too, Nick. You want a traitor though.
You know what I'm saying? Wouldn't you agree that traitors have an advantage? Like there's a huge advantage if you're a traitor. The best analogy to make, I've been saying it all day is imagine playing chess against someone and the object of the game is to put your pieces in place where by the time your opponent figures it out, it's too late.
It's checkmate. Well'm playing against the trader i'm making my moves and the minute they figure out that i got the edge on them all they have to do is hit the big red button and my game's over right it's like it's really difficult yeah i mean listen rob's a legend wes is a legend and to be transparent with you guys when i came in in the cage i almost felt like a case of imposter syndrome because this was my second show.
So I'm like, why am I up here with these guys? I don't deserve it. They've been doing this since I was in high school.
And I was a little intimidated at first, but ultimately I found my ground and I think I held my own. And I mean, I thought I gave a pretty compelling argument.
I basically said exactly what happened, including his frigging origin story on how he became a traitor and people were like good story bro still going for wes because he's mean well wes definitely fucked you over with the whole like i'm coming for you like if he hadn't said any of that it would have been robbed that night to a group of women okay yeah no as soon as he said it there was an audible gasp in the in the round table and you just saw like as pale as i am like all color went out of my face those are the variables i didn't anticipate i didn't anticipate wes reacting the way he did but in fairness to him i don't think he thought he was gonna have to counter that argument of being aggressive. And secondly, Carolyn and Danielle were currently in a fight, which I was unaware of.

So Carolyn voted for Danielle instead of Rob, which she did the next night.

So those are the variables you can't control.

I was one vote away from a tie.

What could have been? See, I think West beat himself.

And I think, listen, you got killed by Rob.

Rob had the advantages of a traitor.

You could argue that Rob beat himself and West beat himself as well.

I mean, I get it listen, you got killed by Rob. Rob had the advantages of a traitor.
You could argue that Rob beat himself and Wes beat himself as well.

I mean, I get it. Wes has accomplished a lot.
I never watched the challenge. But isn't part of game playing knowing your audience? You came in starting this interview doing some research on me thinking I was going to go on the show.
I don't think people from Housewives

or Bachelor Nation

or whatever franchise

give a fuck about how many

shows Wes won on the show, like, I don't think people from Housewives or, you know, Bachelor Nation or, you know, whatever franchise give a fuck about how many shows Wes won on the challenge, you know? And it seemed like Wes kind of like felt like that was something everyone needed to respect. Even Wes was like to the other people, like, I don't know who you are.
They don't know who you are either, Wes. Like, there's a lot of people who everyone's narcissistic on this show in their own world.
Everyone kind of comes in thinking they're the man. And I feel like Wes coming in with this, like, I've won more than everyone else was to his detriment, you know? Like, he should have gone a lot farther than he did.
And I felt like you kind of got, you were the sacrificial lamb trying to play it smart. Having Wes supposed to be an ally, he can't, like, keep his cool.
He's, like, mouthing off to a bunch of ladies who don't give a fuck who he is making threats. And then you kind of got screwed trying to hold your own and playing it right.
I don't know. How did you see it? I'm a girl dad.
I'm right there. I got two girls, 12 and nine.
And I was like, don't take a rocket scientist to figure out this isn't going to go well for me right now. They've been showing.
But literally, as I was putting my vote up, they know, they cut a lot out. But I was like, well, Wes, you're going home tonight and I'm probably getting murdered tomorrow, but it was fun.
And then I put it in there because I knew I knew the way he reacted in the way they responded to it. Logic was out the window.
And I tried to bring it back home by being like, guys, I get it, but let's not be dumb and vote for the guy that we don't like over the person who is clearly the traitor. And they were just like, yeah, we're not having it.
And in their defense, I think, well, Dylan, I didn't realize would never have voted for Rob. I didn't realize Brittany was as positive on Rob as she was until that day.
But overall, I think regardless, their thought process was we don't like Wes. So either way, it's a win to get him out.
And if he's not the traitor, we'll vote out Rob tomorrow. How happy were you watching this episode back knowing you didn't have to go through the bugs? Or were you like, that would have been fun? I mean, listen, I was having so much fun out there.
Nick, I'm sure you're going to get the call. Do it.
It was the best show I've ever done. I've only done two shows, which is not saying a lot, but but it was so much fun that's the only thing that the only regret i have is that i didn't get to play longer because production is great the staff is great the competitions were great the the place where we were film is beautiful so i was bummed watching it i'm gonna have fomo for the rest of the season i don't regret my move if anything i made the move too late but i do regret the fact that I don't regret my move.
If anything, I made the move too late,

but I do regret the fact that I don't get to experience the things that

they're getting to experience now.

So that's bittersweet.

It looks like a lot of fun.

And our,

our,

our boy Wells obviously was the first out and he was,

he's bummed about that.

And that's,

that is the challenge about that,

that show though.

It's just like.

It made no sense going for Wells,

by the way,

but I didn't have a vote that night.

It made no sense. Whether you're a former cop or you're rob or you're west the thing about what's fascinating about this show what makes it so fun is you can be a great game player but there's still a lot there's a lot of elements that like you can't control and the unpredictability you know like the fact that people do go for their friends you know the people you know they go off of vibes and things like that.
To kind of your point, it only does you so good to be a former cop, and to disagree with me if you want, Derek, almost like Wes. Wes was playing like he was in a room full of people in the challenge.
And instead of adapting to being in a room full of some people in the challenge, some people who are gamers, some people who are people you know and you have to adapt to a game player like rochelle who's going to like go off vibes you know and you have to anticipate shit like that and west was this like it couldn't it wasn't registering with west like and to me that makes him less legendary than he says he is uh because he wasn't adapting to his environment shots fired west on the show yet No, he uh he was too busy for another show i'll bring him back oh hey so that's where this is coming from that's my honest opinion but like i would love to i'll bring him on to defend himself but uh i don't know do you see it do you see it differently do you see it differently i mean listen listen you know the thing is you don't have a lot of time during the day to talk to each other you really don't and i didn't i i saw west for what it was he realized they were on a tight a tight time window we needed people to talk and nobody was really giving anything like sam and iver one night are saying rob i think you're a traitor i'm coming for you and the next night they're voting for west it just it's hard when you're playing with people who don't necessarily do these games all the time. But yeah, to your point, I think, I think West didn't maybe read the room correctly in that moment.
He said to me that he made a joke that just didn't land. That was a joke.
That was his humor. But like you had said, they don't know him, but I will say this.
Wes is his thought processes. I'm there to make a good TV show.
That's why I keep getting cast on these shows. And in his defense, between him and Rob, to go back to my point earlier, they've been on like 20, 30 shows together.
I've been on two and I won my first show. So, you know, I guess it depends on what your goals are.
If you're trying to get cast on the next show, probably the right move in the character that he's playing. But if you're trying to win this particular game, maybe not the right decision.
You talked about having two girls. Are they watching traitors or do they think you're so uncool? They love it.
They love it. My oldest daughter is 12.
So I'm just starting not to be cool with her, but they love Dylan Efron. Of course.
So I had a big, I had a big premiere party. I let her invite all her friends.
I was suddenly cool again. And the only troubling part was my daughter, who was like this sweet, innocent little Tenly, like never really gave me any indication she likes boys.
And she's like, Dad, can you do me a favor? The girls were wondering if you could FaceTime Dylan real quick. And I was like, sure, no problem.
I FaceTimed them and no joke. It was like rabid dogs for a piece of me, including my daughter.
And I'm like, I like almost had to kick her away from the phone. I'm like, all right, Dylan, I hate you.
Bye. I got to go.
But yeah, no, I'm suddenly cool again for at least the next six months. That's great, man.
Scary, scary, but great. Get ready for it, man.
It was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my life. The way she acted in that moment, I was like, oh my God, she's never leaving the house again.
Speaking of Dylan, how do you think he navigates out of this kind of loyalty to Rob now that he, you know, Rob is out. He's been revealed as a traitor.
He's kind of positioned himself as like an ally of Rob. He's not the only one, but how do you think he navigates out of that? This is the best thing that could happen for him.
His biggest downfall was his blind spot to Rob, kind of similar with me with Danielle and him not having Rob in the game no more is going to open up paths for him because initially when I gave him the shield, I had a lot of hope for his potential and he was so skewed by Rob that he started to lose his sight of what he should be focusing on. And that intuition kind of escaped him a little bit.
And my hope going forward is now he reels it back in, realizes he's there for himself. People view him as a faithful.
And so hopefully he can ride that wave and get back on track because although we're only halfway, a little bit more than halfway through, there's not a lot of game to play left. So you got what, three, four episodes.
So now's the time you got to start getting those traitors out or they're going to win. With Danielle, Danielle has been really confusing, I think for viewers to watch, because it seems like she's not a very good trader.
Did you suspect Danielle at all during your time in the castle? And like, what was your reaction to seeing her in tears to your departure? Yeah, me and Danielle have been close for 10 years and I always wanted to play a show with her. She's the best Big Brother player to not win.
And so we had a personal relationship. We had a lot of, and Nick knows this, we had a lot of conversations off camera that are much more personally connected and not about the game that you remember when you're playing.
And so she got me in the blind spot there. And I will say this in Danielle's defense.
There's a reason nobody's saying her name at the round table.

Yes, we were suspicious of her, especially me and Brittany after the riddle competition.

But I got distracted by Brittany's behavior in defense of Rob because I was certain about Rob.

And that threw me off Danielle's trail.

But she's playing a pretty good game.

She hasn't been mentioned yet.

Yes, she's emotional.

But she's been consistent in that emotional display that she put on. She's constantly crying over everything.
So to the point, we were all kind of perceiving it as she just, this game is too much for her. She's paranoid.
But overall, she's still there. She got rid of Rob.
I think it was a great move, giving me up for Rob to lower his guard to then just vote for him again.

Right.

I mean. there um she got rid of rob i think it was a great move giving me up for rob to lower his guard to then just vote for him again right i mean it's a good move so i know she's getting a tough edit and people are like it's so obvious she's a traitor but you guys have the privilege of knowing who the traitor is yeah it makes like you said it makes no difference to me like as a viewer like what how obvious we think it is.
And maybe I know this because I know things are edited. But to your point, no one in the house is suspecting her.
So if anyone should be criticizing anyone, it should be the other people in the house, not the traitor who clearly in the moment is giving faithful to everyone. She's playing the because like no one no one's bringing her up no one you still have tom sandoval and dolores going at each other yeah and you had you had jeremy who was on to her and he was one that i'm very close with he's my favorite survivor player um so him saying it stuck in my head as well when he said it and then got murdered i was like was like, that's not good.
But I would have to be transparent now that I'm out. Like,

I don't think I ever would have went after her. And even at the end, I don't know if I would have

had the balls to cut her because let's be honest, you guys know this. It's, it's about the journey,

not the destination with traders. Like nobody's like, who's going to win the 250,000.
It's more

about like, how are they going to get there? What's going to happen in the meantime? So

I don't know what I would have done, but I will say one of my biggest weaknesses in that game was my friendship with Danielle for sure. But I love her.
I have no ill will toward her or anybody else for that matter. All-star traders, you would go back for another run if you were offered, I'm assuming.
Yeah. I mean, it was a great experience.
I would go back. Here's the thing.
And you might even have more insight on this. And I'd actually like your opinion on it because I feel like this show is blowing up so much that it's kind of becoming like the next dancing with the stars and the pool of people that they're going to be able to pull from is going to be so vast.
I think that nobody's like me. The fact that I got one shot in there is like, I better just be happy with i feel like it's it's getting big now i think you're selling yourself a lot short derek uh i think one i think yes it's gotten more successful i think you know from season one to season three yeah it's i think it's a little easier for casting than it was maybe the first two seasons where they you know they probably they probably got a lot of no's and's and people weren't sure what it was.
But every season, the gamers have very much carried this show. I think the housewives or Bachelor people, Dylan, they pick up on it as they get along.
But I think the strategy is what a lot of people are enjoying about this show. And I think to make it work, you almost need the gamers,

the big brother people, the survivors,

the challenge people,

because I think they almost in a way

train the Dylans of the world

about how to play the game.

And I think that's always important.

I think there's an element there.

And I think the reality TV space

is always going to dominate traders.

I think even Dylan is kind of technically reality tv because he did the show with his brother but i don't think they're going to start pulling in like like working actors and musicians and things like that i think i think this works for traders it's obviously bravos has a strong you know it's cross promotional so i think they're going to stay in this lane and i still think they're going to be pulling from gamers even if it's like you know for the people who don't watch big brother or don't watch survivor you know you're learning a lot about these people but i think they're too important to this uh this shows like the wheel the gears turning i don't know i think if you just had a bunch of housewives and a bunch of like vanderpump people and a couple basher people and they're like play traders you know it'd be harder to get going yeah it wouldn't be as like the the i'll tell you why derek because like like for example the basher people a lot of them are coming off going on the bachelor show and like there's a lot of brainwashing that goes on where it's just like are you fucking here for the right reasons like you better be here for the right reasons you better not like in bachelor world to like quote steal someone is, like, the worst thing you can do. So I think there's a lot of, like, trauma, honestly, from, like, people who, like, have only done the Bachelor franchise.
So the idea of being a traitor or a villain or killing someone or lying to your friend, they're, like, so uncomfortable with that, like, being recorded and being used for TV because they're so used to being like that weapon honestly like weaponized against them that you truly would need gamers like yourself being like guys it's a fucking game you can chill out we're here to play and have them relax because honestly you would get you would get a lot of reality tv stars who are too afraid to do shit you ain't wrong and and that was part of the concept in there where you have to quickly figure out people's motives for being there yeah as you alluded to and without saying names there are people that their metric for success on traders is how long can i last yeah like how many how much air time can i get how long can i go in the show where people like you know rob and myself and we're playing the game if i go home i go home but i'm playing you brought me here to catch a killer that's what i'm gonna do and if i go home early that's fine but yeah you're right we're we're putting more of a strategic element to the game and i could see there were certain people that didn't give a shit who went home as long as it wasn't them and that that can be if it's all people like that and everyone's doing throwaway votes it could actually hurt the show so you you make a valid make a valid point. Yeah.
Yeah. I'd be throw in on people just like, they only, they want to stay there.
They also want to be likable. They want to be, you know, they want to be the popular one.
They're like, yeah, there's a lot of motivated motives in that, in that round table, so to speak that aren't like making the show as good as it possibly can. And I think the gamers will always be welcomed at the table for that reason.
Hey, listen, I'm not mad about it from your lips to God's ears. I hope I get the chance to play again.
It was a great experience. It was my first time playing a show in 10 years.
You've done the reality TV thing. It's not always a positive experience, but the behind the scenes, the mental health aspect of it, I was fucked up after Big Brother.
I was in there almost 100 days and I was an undercover detective for four years and that was harder. And so having people behind the scenes calling you every week, even as the show's airing to be like, Hey, how you doing? What'd you think? Are you cool? Is anything you need to talk about? They have doctors on stuff.
I was like, wow, this is definitely different than past experiences. And for those reasons, I would do it again.
That's awesome. Derek, man.
Sounds like you had a great time. Really fun to hear your POV about the experience.
Anything else you want to share before we let you go? No, man. I just enjoyed it.
Thanks for having me on. And if I ever get to see you in there, don't be a traitor.
Don't kill me. All right.
Well, if I ever go on, I'll be reaching out to you for some advice. I appreciate you, buddy.
Love that. Love that.
Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you, Derek.
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Exclude to white. Derek's a nice guy.
He's so nice. So sweet.
That's so cool that he like does his research on people to try to just like get to know them before he goes on. That's a smart.
No, I know. But it was like sweet that he remembered all that.
That's like a gamer versus just like a reality star because it's giving Jax when he went on House of Villains and his reps were like, to win the game, you should do your research on who else is going in. And he did zero.
Then was like, I had no idea that they would behave this way. And it's like, well, if you would have just watched a clip.
What is the premise of House of Villains? It's just all of the worst people from reality TV living under a house and doing. I mean, I know Jax is a horrible human being, but are they all horrible people? Just like the worst characters.
Like, I love New York.

Some of the villains are iconic.

For sure.

I mean, Candy Muse.

But I'm like, even then, the whole point is that they got the worst at it or they were the worst person on their season of their show.

Candy Muse just got a bad edit.

And they what?

And then they do what?

They compete, then they vote each other out.

And then it's like, somebody wins.

How's the villain?

I haven't had heebie-jeebies that bad in a long time.

I mean, watching all of those bugs.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I still feel one in my ear.

But the question is, how far would you make it?

Are you a Chrishell?

I think I could have done.

No.

A Sierra?

Well, I don't know.

Chrishell, honestly, I related to that.

But I feel like I could have, if I had someone who was really gripping my hand.

Yeah.

I feel like I could have gotten past the scorpions.

But then once those bugs dropped on my fucking head.

No.

Tom's hat.

The way they just all went on Tom's hat.

Thank God Sierra had a veil because they were all on that veil instead of like crawling on her neck.

But how far would you have gone?

You had heebie-jeebies.

It would have been tough.

Would you have kept your eyes closed when they were putting like the millipede and the scorpions On your hands Let me just say That I thought Dylan looked really hot Oh Being as calm As he was I was really jealous Of like I wish I could say That I would have been Dylan in this moment Just kind of being like This is fun Sam was too Unbothered Sam was pretty manly He was like I love this Rob Rob was pretty manly. Rob talking Sierra through it.
Yeah. That was pretty great.
I would have been somewhere between Tom Sandoval and Dylan. Tom Sandoval was cracking me up every time.
He's like, yeah, okay. Yeah.
Oh, sure. Why not? You guys, I have to be honest.
Sandoval kind of won me over. I'm telling you guys, he's a flawed man, but he is not horrible.
He is there to be a court jester He is not without A charming character He's not His reactions were perfect I will say It worked He was the one who Got Rob out He did He did And Dylan was like I trust Tom Sandoval You could tell And Dylan when he When he paired up with him He was like He kind of. It was like, hate me, America.
I don't know what to tell you. And then Tom was like, someone likes me.
But you know why? Because I guarantee you, Dylan looks at Tom Sandoval and go, I know exactly who you are. I know exactly what I'm working with.
I know what to ask you. I know what to ask you.
And now I know. Now I trust you.
And that's all Tom Sandoval is. He felt so good after he got Rob out and everyone was like, good job, Tom.
He was like, I finally have respect. When he walked the trailer for the next episode when he walks up to, what? It's like they're going to kill someone face to face.
When he walked, he was like, you know what? I finally got the respect I wanted. If I go, I go.
I die happy. I was like, you know what, Tom? I'm happy for you.
No one takes him seriously. He's the perfect court jester.
I know. He's there to be laughed at.
Everyone deserves empathy. He's doing a really good job.
Even Tom Sandoval. Yeah, even the ending, we have Dolores from Patterson, which is like her alter ego when she turns like super like cold and like monotone, where she was saying like, you better kill me.
I'm going to come for you. I was like, I'm going to come for you.
All I said was, that is a housewife from Jersey, right? Yeah. Don't kill her.
It's heating up. It's good.
I think it would be harder for me to do the bug and snake things than some of the stuff on special forces. Really? Listen, there's a reason Fear Factor got canceled.
It's like you can only take so much of that stuff. I have a confession.
I've done the bug challenge before. What does that mean? I paid for a haunted house where it was VIP and they dump a ton of bugs ton of bugs and like you have to yeah oh my god it's a vip expense experience but if you close your eyes you can win it he's like it's a business expense that's the thing if i had to do i mean if i had to mentally be like all right i gotta i gotta fucking do this like i hate snakes i'm a big believer that like sometimes we hang on to our phobias because it's something we identify with it's like if you need to get over a phobia you can you you truly can i cannot get over triphophobia yeah sure whatever um you don't need to i'm with you on that which one's triphophobia listen you can get over anything you really need to and most of the stuff you don't need to anyways i would have been able to like muscle it up but i wouldn't have been been calm.
I would have maybe had to close my eyes and I might have squirmed. Oh yeah, I feel them.
I got to give Sierra a lot of credit. I was like, the fact that she did not open her eyes or did not pull away, where I'm like, the second the weight, where I'm actually, I'm not afraid of snakes, but I'm like, if you're afraid of all of those things to top it off with a snake on, like the weight of a snake over your shoulders.
I was like, what is it? girl if you don't know you're lucky i honestly think i would have handled that challenge really well non-relatable well speaking of traders and speaking of sam who he he's starting he's starting to talk a little bit more and he's got a funny personality he's got a funny personality he's giving very man. He's also our guest this week on Going Deeper.
This was an amazing interview. If you guys are fascinated with anything Britney Spears and their relationship, this is a must-listen episode you do not want to miss.
I didn't even know what to expect with Sam. Truly.
We got in contact. He hit me up.
I was like, I absolutely would love to have you on the show. I said to him, everyone knows who you who you are and no one knows who you are it's like we all know him as the ex-husband of britney spears one of the biggest and greatest pop stars of ever or of our generation but we know like nothing of the man he's relatively quiet on traders well we got to sit down with sam and spend a lot of time with him and he gets gets into, I mean, his whole backstory and coming to America and meeting Brittany and a lot about their relationship.
So you got to listen to it. It was wild.
I see him in a totally different light after talking with him than certainly before Traders and even on Traders where we haven't really gotten to know him. So it's an absolute must listen going deeper tomorrow on The Vile files be sure to check that out all right bachelor time recently deported ally joe will be joining us momentarily this episode's really this season's really like it's good it's good this is good i'm hooked i'm still holding on to my latia and juliana are still definitely are you guys uh oh by way, for anyone who I'm sure there were plenty of people who disagree with me, still absolutely 100% team Zoe.
Look, not my cup of tea. I stand by that.
She doesn't have to be your cup of tea. What is Zoe's job? What is her job? Engineer.
Mechanical engineer. Mechanical engineer.
Model. And model.
But I want to focus on the mechanical engineer. Listen, anyone can do anything.
But it's a unique profession for a lady to be a mechanical engineer. Maybe she might be different in, say, a house full of other women.
Tech engineer. Her personality might read a little differently.
She's a tech engineer. Tech engineer.
I don't know. Engineer.
Go to any engineering program, and it's like 10% women. I saying it's, she might have a slightly different personality than a group full of girly girls and whatever you agree with Zoe or not.
Like, I'm not saying you agree with how she's handling it. I'm not saying you would show up and be like, that's who I want to be friends with.
Clearly she is slightly different, but to sit there and tell me that she deserved, I, if you go watch it, after Zoe said whatever she said to Grant and then Grant kind of give that cryptic, be nice to each other, the rumors. There's a scene where seven or eight women walk up to Zoe and form a line with their arms crossed.
Go back and watch. These women are all walking up with their arms crossed.
They don't know. They've all been there for like four days.
And Zoe shows up. She pulls Grant.
She spends some time with him. These women are ganging up on her.
Whether you agree with her or not, they just don't think she's going about it the right way, the right way, because they took notes as 15-year-old old girls watching the bachelor and now they're deciding how the house is supposed to operate and because zoe does what zoe wants to do they all walk up in a gang of eight and like and make her cry and you're gonna and you're gonna side with the gang i'm sorry if you didn't come here to make friends she did exactly that she made no friends okay the dress comment was crazy the dress That was crazy that was crazy yeah they they come they tell her it's the shortest dress i've ever seen dress is too short not the shortest dress i've ever seen and you think zoe does zoe made their actually seraphina to zoe well she didn't say it to zoe she said it about zoe to someone else but these are weird it yeah okay but the whole the gang of eight people talk to Grant. Because Zoe...
And you know why they didn't get to talk to Grant? Because Zoe was there every four times. No, no, no.
Because they are sitting... I know this because I've been in that world.
They are sitting waiting their turn. They are more concerned talking to Derek on Traders.
Derek pointed out he showed up. I'm going back to Traders.
Keep up. No, I'm on a roller coaster.
Whoa. Sorry, let's go inside mixed brain for 10 seconds.
As Derek was saying, he observed some people were there to play the game and make moves. And some people were there to go far.
And some people were there to make sure they had a good edit. And make sure they were there to be popular.
And that's how all these women are in the house. They are sitting on a chair and a sofa waiting their turn, hoping Grant comes to see them or someone gets picked so they don't ruffle anyone's feathers because they're more concerned with their edit and popularity and followers than they are like following, getting a connection with Grant.
And Zoe is only focused on her connection with Grant. And these girls are mocking her dress.
And when they do, and when she does something they don don't like they gang up on her in an environment where they have no support system whatsoever there's no one to call there's no friend there's no lifeline there's just are you in the group are you out of the group and if you're out of the group fuck you you're fucked well ali joe was a part of that group that that uh yeah so you can bring that same energy with ali joe and ask her what the fuck yeah or your fake say with your chest I get where she's coming from I mean I think I'm like

I'm like that so you can bring that same energy with Allie Jo and ask her what the fuck

or your fake

I get where she's coming from

they're all on a show but I'm saying for anyone

watching and it's every season

all the batternation is like

they pick the one person who doesn't play by

everyone's rules and they want to pick on that one

person when the bully is always

the house. But it was

kind of laughable just the like difference in group dates of how last week she was like i don't give a fuck i'm stealing him from you i don't care i want to talk to him that's what this whole thing is about and like i'm gonna sit here silent and then the next week being like i just like your actions now you know how we feel from last week yeah i know i know there's editing i don't like like her tattling. I'll give you that.
I do not like her tattling. The tattling and you don't get to be like, I'm all on my own.
I came here just for The Bachelor. I don't come here for friends and then be surprised that the girls don't rally around you.
There's a difference between not rallying around them and confronting her with, there's a complete difference. Nobody confronted her.
She overheard somebody say something. Rallying behind her is expecting the ladies to cheer her on as she goes and steals Grant from someone else.
That's rallying behind. She's not asking that.
What is happening is like, the other women are waiting their turn. Some of them are not getting the turns.
Zoe's getting a turn and they're collecting all the women to like confront Zoe, literally pin her in a corner while their arms are all crossed until she cries while mocking her dress. And that's your team, your team bully.
Yep. Guess so.
I was like, have another martini and cry about something instead of having a conversation face to face with the girls or confront them. But it's like, you don't get to play victim after you played badass last week.
You just just don't i do wish in that moment she would have said when juliana was like let's just cut to the chase like zoe like what did you tell him what was her answer to that i can talk to him about whatever i want to i wish she would have been like yeah i told him that like seraphina you fucking called my dress short and that hurt my feelings and if this is going to be my husband i would like to confide in my husband about like people who hurt my feelings and so Buterafina I did tell him that you said that what the fuck it's a lot easier to say what you're thinking and what you want when you have an army of friends on your back as opposed to when you're by yourself on an island no that's when I thrive she had Chloe so true and she has friends I need you all to be in that world let's ask Ali Jo I i'm gonna bring her in i want to see this energy nick ali joe hello hello how are you i'm doing good how are you we're so your heart is healed from your back bachelor exile i would say so for now for now well before we get started i the the household wants me to let you know i am staunchly team zoe i don't know if you're gonna be okay should i go should i get the boxing gloves out are you gonna get the rest of your gang i'm on it i roll deep i roll yeah tell us about your experience hallie experience was great it was it was wild it was interesting it was. I feel like there's not one word you can use to explain the experience there.
It was a great time, honestly. Were you surprised to kind of get an early exit or just kind of not make...
I mean, I'm guessing maybe you just didn't get a chance to make much of a connection with Grant? Yeah. I feel like the time, every time I would speak with him, it was cut short.
So the last conversation I had with him before the rose ceremony, I remember going into one of the interview rooms and being like, I'm not really feeling too confident today. And I'll always own that if I'm feeling confident, I feel that way.
And if I don't, I don't. And in that moment, I really didn't.
So I kind of had a feeling after I'd spoken to him that night. And was it always Zoe who was cutting you off or were there other people who kind of cut you off? There were other people.
There were other people. Okay.
But not, you know,

consecutive times in a row. Are you still having beef with Zoe or have you guys reconciled?

No, there's no beef at all. Listen, I'm a very like onward and upward person.
It wasn't shown.

And I know she had spoken on other podcasts, but I did apologize to her the next day.

We confided in each other a little bit that night at that cocktail party. I had my red wine.
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you're like, you're like, you're like,ward and upward. Great.
What did you apologize for? For the way I came across and the way I spoke to her. I wouldn't say it was the best way to present something, but I was in the heat of the moment and I'm not a perfect person, but I own it and I apologize, you know? So maybe you can help clear up a debate we were having before you showed up.
You've been obviously in this world. It's been a while, so I know what it's like to be in your shoes, but I'm usually of the opinion, and while everyone there is well-intentioned, and it's all very confusing for everyone who's there.
I mean, in the first couple of weeks, you guys are like, what the fuck's going on? But I'm of the opinion that even though the edit usually doesn't show this, that in real time, that the house is usually the bully. I'm not calling any of you ladies bullies.
I'm just saying when you're in this house and you're part of the majority opinion and you're the one person doing your own thing, even if your own thing is harmless, is trying to get some time, it can be very intimidating when a group of men or a group of women walk up to you with your arms crossed and kind of like, what the fuck are you doing? And that's why I'm always, I'm team Zoe in that. Do you see what I'm saying? Or do you feel like there's a different side? No, of course.
I always like to see two sides of a story. And I even said that when I was speaking with her, you know, like you have your side, I have my side.
And there's the truth somewhere in the middle, but nobody ever stood there with their arms crossed. She was always invited to do things and, and join us.
And that's what was failed to be said by her and the the edit, it's like she was included. She just chose not to include herself sometimes.
But it also was shown we were all like eating dinner together. Her and Parisa did like a little habachi night.
Like we were all around the table. So like she was included.
So that's where sometimes like if you want to put yourself in that box that you feel like you weren't included, that's how she felt. But being on the other side, she was included.
And you know, you can't really say that your teammates

weren't supporting you when you quite clearly just said you weren't there to make friends. And you

were not just treating me a certain way with everybody. So you have to like, if you're going

to say something, you have to at least back it up. And there's proof in the pudding.
And it was

shown on television, not everything. You know, like I said, she has her side, I have my side.

There was the truth somewhere in the middle, onward and upward, but nobody ever stood there

All right. proof in the pudding and it was shown on television.
Not everything. Like I said, she has her side, I have my side.
There was the truth somewhere in the middle, onward and upward, but nobody ever stood there with their arms crossed. I only do that when I'm taking rum a boxing photo shoot.
I don't know if it was you and maybe you'll see it when you watch the episode, but when you guys confronted Zoe, there was many of- It was after when Serafina said her dress was short and she went and she told Grant about it. And then Grant was like, the rumors, like, y'all need to be nice to each other.
And it was like, Zoe, what did you say to him? And then y'all all kind of... Y'all kind of ganged up on her a little bit.
It was kind of hollow. Yeah.
So, I mean, I haven't seen that episode, but I remember in real time, I kind of just sat there and was like, yo, girl, me and you, we like squashed in. She was like, no, no i said like ali it wasn't ali joe like she her and i looked at each other in the eyes and said that so i was not involved ali joe's hands are clean ali joe's hands to be clear for everyone we're not crossed arms were not crossed hands are clean they were not crossed exactly i mean were you aware of this like rose and carolina issue where Grant told her he was thinking of Rose during the dance with Carolina? Did you hear that? So when I was talking to Grant that final night, the night that I got eliminated, there was like all these things happening.
And I remember me and Juliana were like, what's happening? What's happening? Like we were drinking drinks at the bar. We're like, what is going on? And I was like, I'm just trying to talk to Grant.
I was hanging out with the golden bachelorette man. I talked to Jack more that night, more than I spoke to Grant.
We were flipping burgers. So I didn't really know what was going on, but then I kept like seeing all the girls walk back and forth.
And I was like, what's happening? Like there, like there's something happening. So I knew something was brewing.
And then I knew Chloe had cried and her and I were talking and I was like, and she was a little upset that he kind of spent time talking with her. And while he was upset talking about other women and I said to her, I was like, listen, maybe that's a good thing.
He's confiding in you. That's a good sign.
So I was trying to make it a positive, but yeah, I wasn't aware of the entire situation, but there was some rumblings happening. Who do you trust more Carolina or Rose? I didn't have a, like, we are friends in the house.
I spoke to rose a lot more than i spoke to carolina but i could not pick a side of who i would trust more because i wasn't there i like proof and i like to see things in my own eyes and i wasn't there so i don't know gun to your head you know you got to pick a side messy messy messy oh i don't know i guess i have to see how it comes about on television the comment that seraphina made about zoe's dress can you kind of tell us how that whole situation went down like was it overheard by zoe was it said to it was a bunch of women talking about it that it got back to her so to be honest i don't remember her saying that and then when it came up in the previews i was watching it with my mom like the first episode she was like alijo did you say that and i was like No, I didn't remember her saying that. And then when it came up in the previews, I was watching it with my mom, like the first episode, she was like, Aljo, did you say that? And I was like, no, I didn't say that.
I have no idea who did. And then when they ran it back and she was showing Seraphina, I was like, I truly don't remember her saying it that night.
Like, I don't know if I wasn't present. I was hanging out with Dina a lot that night.
I really don't remember her saying that. I wasn't around.
I honestly think it would be crazy for Grant not to think of also Rose while making out with her. Lena.
Rose was also really sick too. What happened to...
Oh, who was that? Beverly. Beverly.
Oh yeah. Beverly went home.
Oh yeah. She went home.
Yeah. She got pretty sick.
None of us know where she went. She was supposed to have a one-on-one date and then we all did our group finance date which i did horribly at then we came back and we were all like where's beverly where's beverly where's beverly like we didn't know and then she ended up getting really sick and and she had to unfortunately leave which we all felt really bad for and she's a great girl have you heard from her since is she.
She's okay. Yeah.
Okay. Thank goodness.
Well, Allie, thank you so much for giving us a little bit of the tea. We really appreciate you jumping on and giving us a little of the 411.
And now that they're bringing Paradise back, are you hoping to get an invitation to the beach? Listen, I moved to Fort Lauderdale and I have a lot of bikinis now. So I would maybe go'll see where i'm at in that point of my life no shopping needed for ali joe she is booked and ready to go i'm ready i was laying in the palm trees yesterday in the sun are you currently single and available as as of today i am currently single and available as of today okay well it's just we gotta put it off there you know like you know that some people in casting you know watch the show so it's really important you never know i do have to correct you though nick oh please you said something about you said something about cup of tea but i'm a cup of joe so oh we gotta just change that a little bit thank you so much ellie joe i appreciate it i stand corrected uh thank you so much for your time, Allie Jo.

Really appreciate it.

Good luck the rest of the way.

We hope we see you on the beach and we'll see.

Well, it all comes down to women tell all, you know, you got to find that sweet spot between like being like someone who left early and not talking too much, but talking enough,

you know, where they want you on, you know?

Absolutely.

All right.

Well, we'll see you then. Thank you so much.
I appreciate it. Appreciate it.
All right. Take care.
Bye-bye. Bye.
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Yeah, I think it would be psychotic

if you really break it down.

If Grant, like, I don't know what he's supposed to say

because it's like a tough position to be in, but

imagine if he was only thinking of

Carolina when he was making out with Carolina and not

the other five women or whoever,

how many women there were. That would be weird.
It would be like you like we're all fucking're all fucking here you're not thinking of like hey maybe we should wrap this up a little bit there's five other women watching us like if he was like getting a little awkward he was like yeah honestly don't even know that they're there that would be that would be even worse that is true but i do think it was that's how insane this world i do think it was insane for rose to then like tell carolina this whole like

he said he was thinking of me while dancing with you and then to straight up tell grant when grant's like i never said that she's like i could have sworn you did he's like well i did it she's like i must have misheard you that combo was so uncomfy so what do we think the truth is i think that the truth is that he was feeling bad for the other women that he was doing such a public display of affection with Carolina. And so he was thinking about it.
I think when him and Rose talked about it and we didn't see this conversation, they were probably she probably mentioned like that was uncomfortable. I felt weird watching it.
And he probably said, don't worry, I was thinking of you guys. Like I also felt like it was.
And then she must have said that to Carolina. So you think he's lying? I don't know.
Grant stood strong being like, those words never came out of my mouth. No, I don't think that he that he's lying that could because I think that it all got taken out of context.
I don't think that he's saying like, no, I specifically didn't say I was thinking of Rose while I was dancing with Carolina. It was a mutual breakup.
It was a mutual breakup. I see what you're saying.
Yes. Leia, I get what you're throwing down.
She's not wrong. I'm just saying.
But Grant was very adamant that he did not, nothing even remotely close. Grant wasn't like- He took it offensively.

He was like, you're lying on my character.

Grant wasn't like, listen, I didn't say it like that, and you knew I didn't say it like

that, and for you to take that and go back to Carolina felt very disingenuous of you.

He could have easily handled it that way, and he did, and he was like, I don't fucking

say that shit.

Right, but then to Leia's point, he also did not get rid of her for lying on his name.

He said everyone makes mistakes and deserves second chances so here's your thing that's him covering his ass rather than him being like i'm not i don't know that's not like a producer being like maybe let's keep her another round yeah there was definitely that that's almost certainly the answer another more like acceptable answer he's just like i don't know like who do i have left to choose from he's like answer. He's just like, I don't know.
Like, who do I have left to choose from? He's like, Rose, Allie Jo. And he's like, I don't know.
Well, I'm not going to end up with either of them. So he's like, I don't know.
I kind of liked making out with Rose a little bit more than Allie Jo. So let's keep Rose for a week.
I don't know. I, I think that, I think that there was more to the story.
I mean, she's just going to make up a complete, I mean, she says that I remember that happening. No, she said, maybe I misheard.
She didn't. She didn't stand strong being like, no, I know he said that.
Like, he definitely said that. She was like, OK, well, maybe I misheard him.
But also, what is she supposed to say when Grant's like, yeah, she was giving I was running my mouth and gossiping and having fun, and I never imagined this would get back to you.

Did you hear what she said when she was like,

that was a private conversation between me and Carolina.

It's like she was like jaw dropped

that Carolina brought it back to Grant.

She's like, we were just like,

I thought we would never get brought up again.

I think her only defense of Rose,

because I think Carolina is kind of shady.

Well, Carolina didn't tell him. He did process of elimination to get to Rose.
Well, she has epilepsy. So I feel like maybe that, you know, she was dating a DJ.
Was it a little weird? And I feel like maybe that's why they broke up. He's like, you have to support me.
And she's like, I can't go to the raves. It's a little too much hype.
It ended up being sadder than we imagined. It was sad.
And Grant was crying. We had Latia, her story.
We had three stories this episode. Three stories.
We had a story from Latia, we had a story from Grant, and we had a story from Carolina. To recap, Latia's story, that her father, as a three-month-old child, and as a new dad, nothing hits harder than the idea that the ability to raise my daughter and be her father was stolen from me because of a tragic car accident.
And that her father's life was stolen from her, and she lost this from her father. It was a devastating story, worthy of many, many tears.
Latia was composed. There was a couple tears.
It was a beautiful cry. It was a sad, sad story.
Grant had to open up about his father, who is still thankfully with us, but had to open up a very, very vulnerable topic of his dad struggling with addiction. And obviously the turmoil and trauma that can come between a family and a father and son dynamic, very sad story.
it's very, it's very, it's deeply sad. Grant did not cry.
He kept it together. Then we have Carolina.
Mm-hmm. At 17, she tragically had a seizure and was very embarrassed.
And she cried a lot. It was very sad because of epilepsy.
Who judges someone for having a disease? That was her thing is that when she was having the tremors and seizures in front of young kids, she was like, I shouldn't feel bad for something that I'm struggling with. Now, somebody had a seizure in the middle of a grocery store, and it was very apparent that nobody knew what to do besides, thank God, there was one medical professional that was shopping that day.
Sadly, I have loved ones who deal with epilepsy. If not treated, it can be very serious.
People have lost their lives. It's nothing to be messed with.
You should definitely consult with your medical professionals if you have any symptoms. The way it was delivered was a little heavy.
I think she was more so saying it because it's like being with somebody with epilepsy is like, could be different. She was saying like, this is what a life with me could be like it's it's not easy for somebody to be with somebody with epilepsy and it could have been like i maybe she's had relationships end in the past she did she had the dj he was like it's she he picked the bright lights over her i get it she was saying that she's like uninvited from events because her family and friends like worry about her and so it's like it does affect her life of like people i don't know no one has to sell me more that it's real trauma but the the group date with lisa vanderpump at vanderpump dogs let's talk about that i feel like serapino is like more excited to see lisa vanderpump than she was to realize she was on a reality tv show well before we get into this date of lisa vanderpump we need to address lisa vanderpump's comments that she recently gave regarding Ike Kennedy's...
Trash, trash, trash, trash, trash. Yeah.
Embarrassing. Embarrassing.
She should have just not spoken. 100%.
What was her statement? Can we bring it up? Okay, so Lisa Vanderpump spoke to Us Weekly in an exclusive. She said, oh, yes, take him away.
It'll teach him a lesson. But no, he didn't hurt her categorically.
So now she's accusing Allie of playing a prank on James is kind of like a... No, I don't think that's what...
I think... She literally is saying that she says...
I don't think prank is the right word. Like to teach her boyfriend a lesson to like what not yell at her is to take him to jail.
So they got, according to Lisa Vanderpump, they got in a little like silly argument and they were messing around. And then Allie, because whatever the reason, felt like she needed to teach James a lesson, even though he did nothing wrong other than disagree with Allie.
And Allie then sent him to prison. No, first she told the police that she was picked up and thrown across the room.
But I'm just saying, according to Lisa Van Der Poel. According to Lisa Van Der Poel.
No, I know. Are we just completely discrediting what the police wrote? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Lisa just completely discrediting. Yeah, Lisa is saying categorically.
I want to down lisa's statement and lisa's statement is accusing ally of essentially playing a prank on james to teach him a lesson using law enforcement and calling the cops to like a beyond scared straight kind of situation yeah that's what she's accusing ally of making no mention that like this silly argument resulted into ally breaking up with james moving out and deciding not to get back into that relationship. Yeah, that's what she's saying.
Kristen Doty responded to Lisa Vanderpump's statement and said, Absolutely and disgustingly diabolical. I will never, ever be okay with this constant abuse-enabling behavior.
To have the audacity to dumb down not only facts but also feelings makes me sick to my stomach. Yep.
It's not a good look for LVP, that's for sure. It is not at all.
It's a terrible look. It's standard to how she's been.
She'll defend Jack. She defends Short.
She defends Sandville. She defends every single person, goes against the woman.
And now you're saying that, like, Ali is a silly goose who is like, yes, police were called, but let me send him to jail to teach him a lesson. Like, that's ridiculous.
They were both being ridiculous. Like, yeah.
Yeah. It's the language around it, too, just minimizing.
And now because, and I don't know what happened behind closed doors or why James wasn't charged with anything.

I can make guesses and assumptions but because it they didn't move forward with this now lvp and anyone else is in a position to kind of like low-key blame allie or like scapegoat you know it's all it's you know she was being ridiculous she taught him a lesson it's like she broke up with him so it's like what so you just would have thought that lvp would have had a more pr like neutral statement you know just being like i don't stand for any violence period and like yeah that could have been her statement her only statement was well she was teaching him a lesson and that didn't actually happen. It's also like if clearly James Kennedy is sick, he has addictions.
But yeah, his addictions, it's always stated as an excuse. I'm not saying it as an excuse.
I'm saying that this is clearly what happens when he's drunk. I don't know what happens when he's not drunk.
I'm sure it's a result. Correct.
And I think it lies more with like, he cannot acknowledge the fact that when he is drunk, he is violent towards people in his life. And I think that is where this like issue with me is.
I can understand like people have addictions and it makes them do things out of character, out of pocket. I've seen it with my own eyes.
And like, and then when they're not, when they're sober, when they're not on drugs, they're a completely different person. I get that.
But it's like the fact that he isn't able to sit back and say, I do this when I am drinking, or I do this when I'm not drinking is like a problem for me. And Lisa also has at least four seasons where there is confrontations with James and a female.
So it's like for you to act like you don't know that this is a part of his history and therefore undermine not only the history of what he's done, but then have another current situation to where now you're putting the blame on the person whom it actually happened to. It's sick.
She's discrediting every woman who's ever spoken out against James Kennedy. Yeah, because it's not like this is a random allegation.
It's like, no, there's proof of evidence of his behavior repeatedly while he was an employee

of your restaurant, of your TV show.

And yet you won't say anything.

He's no longer employed by you.

And yet you still will not acknowledge the fact that his behavior is disgusting.

It's crazy.

Crazy.

She's also a big advocate for abuse against people that abuse pets and dogs.

I was going to say, against animals, not women.

She pointed out in this episode that she likes animals more than people.

That's clear.

Not that you should be physically abusing animals or people, but clearly we know where Lisa stands.

Hopefully she's not going to hook any of these ladies up with James.

Yeah.

I mean, knowing Lisa.

She'll have them wash dogs for her for free.

So, hey, that's great.

Would you rather be washing dogs?

Would you rather be on a private jet to Vegas?

Oh, true.

Yeah.

Talk about short end of the group date stick.

Yeah.

Imagine one of the group dates

is going to the Beverly Center

and then the other one is a private jet.

I would be so mad.

They did have good chemistry

when they were jumping off the building, though.

Yeah.

I was like, that's giving couple goofy energy.

No, I loved Parisia and him doing the chubby bunny. That too.
That was so funny. I'm rooting for her.
I want her to win. I love her.
Which one is she? Mariska. Parisia is the one who did the PowerPoint.
She has the rocks. She did, yeah.
She's kind of a little weirdo. I like her.
Yeah, I like her. I'd hang out with her.
Yeah. It looks like Letia is going to win.
Oh, for sure. Yeah.
I told you all that. Should we get into some Salt Lake City? Brittany came.
Brittany showed up. Did she ever? Did she? Why wasn't she on the first two episodes? Because she's a friend of.
But the best is she's like, where's my grand entrance? Like, hello? Roll the carpet off. I should be back there.
I should be back there. This is ridiculous.

At the end,

she's like, I thought she was going to storm in.

They do her so dirty.

Why am I not?

I've been working on a Britney,

you guys.

Why am I not out there?

She's so right.

This was so much more enjoyable

than her not being out there.

I don't understand.

And then they brought her out

and they were like,

well, actually,

we have your casting tape.

And I was like,

oh my God.

Her laughing about her being estranged

from her children was insane.

And then to like point the finger at Bronwyn

and be like,

you did this.

This is a production of the U.S. Department of State.
we have your casting tape. And I was like, oh my God.
Her laughing about her being estranged from her children was insane.

And then to like point the finger at Bronwyn and be like,

you did this while she's in her casting video.

Be like,

I'm estranged from my kids.

They won't talk to me.

There's drama there.

My kids just don't understand.

Like you're pitching,

you're pitching you not having a relationship

with your daughters

as a reason to get on this show is crazy.

She is made for TV.

And the text from Jared Osmond to Bronwyn. Can we read it? Disgusting.
I guarantee I am twice the size of any man you've ever been with. I could certainly pick apart all of your anatomy, but I'll remain classy in the public eye and keep it between you and me.
Why is he DMing other women? Yeah, why does he think it's okay to speak to anyone that way? Why is Jared Osmond? Literally. Why is Jared Osmond? What does that mean? Why? You and me.
So true. And not Heather coming to his defense because of his last name.
Literally. Yeah.
Not a good one. I would never put micro penis and Osmond in the same sentence.
I really, I never hated Heather more than in that moment. That moment.
And this was after last week when I was just like, Heather, you're like the future of the show and you should be the leader and rise up. No, her Mormon trauma came back up as soon as the word Osmond got uttered.
Oh my God. It was bizarre that she was not supporting Bronwyn and women and being like, well, you did say he had a micropenis and he kind of has like, right.
And't even say it it was said to her she was part of a conversation that like it was that was upsetting for for and then even for mary to be like i like jared he's never done anything it's like you just heard the text you read like sent to okay but mary's very i know but it's like if i hear if i hear someone sending that text to anyone i'm like immediately i have a different opinion of that person, whether it was sent to me or sent to you. 100%.
If they're capable of saying those words, I don't like that person. And I am definitely comfortable with this double standard.
I don't care what Browen might have texted Jared Osmond. But for Jared, or is it Osmond? She didn't text him anything.
Whatever. But even if she did, for Jared to write Browen that message and in that tone and be comfortable speaking to him in that way.
Mm-hmm. You're sick.
Like, if you think there's a level, like, yeah, it's like, it's not your, it's barely, it's this person you know, it's an acquaintance, like, it's not even a friend. She's a married woman.
Thank you. You're talking about your penis size because you heard a rumor.
Why would that bother you? If your dick's so big, it doesn't bother you. A hundred percent.
It just doesn't. You're all sleeping with Bronwyn, so why do you care what she thinks of you? He's the Chet Hanks of the Mormon church.
Yes, he's just... Yes.
Exactly. Yes.
And honestly, I think that's disrespectful to Chet Hanks because every once in a while... He says something funny.
Yeah Every once in a while He has white voice on me Yeah Jared be more like Chet Did you also hear Brittany constantly saying that like Jared And he kept texting single women And I was like why do you keep clarifying that he's texting single women Because he had Did you get in trouble recently for only texting married women I mean they're back're back together currently today. So it's like, I can't.
She is still actively following him. I just checked.
And he's on private though. Who's following who? Brittany's following Jared, but I can't see Jared's account because it's private now.
AGK is following Jared still. It said on the reunion, like edit, they are back together since filming this.
December is when they did the official post. She's a official post my favorite is that she kind of used like love love bombing like like it's a verb or something she was just like and then he love bombs me and he's so good at love bombing that I'm back and it's just like if you know he's love bombing you I don't think she understands what it is of love bombing I feel like maybe she thinks it's like, oh my God, he loves me so much.

I love it when he love bombs me.

And flowers.

It's like,

and I love you with flowers.

Literally.

She admitted she might not be mature.

She did admit that.

We got something.

She's like,

maybe immature.

She was like,

that was kind of endearing.

She's like,

I do have maturity issues.

But nothing else

she could understand.

Well,

that is an all-encompassing flaw.

Immature? If you're in your, how old is she? 60, 50? I don't want to... 60? I mean, my mom's 62.
She might be. She might be in her...
She might be. Britt.
You can't really find it on the internet. I know I had to find her year of birth.
Anyways, if she's in her 50s, acknowledging she has... She's 53.
Oh. Yeah.
If she has an immaturity issue, that's kind of bad at 53. Yeah.
It's like, is it a far is it like a character characteristic of yours now? You know what I mean? Kind of who you are. Yeah.
It's like it's ingrained in you. And if you are immature, what does that also lead to in cause? It kind of again, it's all encompassing.
It's giving chaos. She also really stuck to her guns about Meredith throwing up, which it bothers me that Meredith has like the biggest reaction to this.
It's like, bitch, you think I was like, I wasn't throwing up. What a fucking weirdo.
Like, I wish she'd just be like, no, but Meredith gets so activated by Britney being like, no, you I there's a specific sound to throwing up. And I definitely and I definitely heard.
Brandy says it in such a, like, like a it's like you simultaneously know she may have no idea what she's talking about but at the same time she says in a way where she's like so convinced and you know she can't be reasoned with which is merit like that's all meredith has is reason reason at least in her mind it's it's like for for meredith to argue with britney is like it's like square peg round hole. It just does not compute.
Because Meredith is so much smarter than Britney and to talk to somebody who is just truly not going to understand anything you're saying because of her perspective. Britney, which one is the truth? She's like, well, all of them.
They were all kind of- I still believe her, by the way. It breaks Meredith's brain.
I believe her version. At this point, they emotionally beat her up so much in that moment that if she had any intention- It's traumatizing.
It was, though. For someone who was sweet, that was brutal.
It was brutal. I guarantee you, Brittany has convinced herself that she never meant to record these women.
No, she's convinced herself that the editing team has elongated the amount of time she was recording and she still stands by the fact that it was only two to three seconds and she's like, no, they made it longer and Andy was like, they can't do that. 20 seconds while people are screaming gives two seconds.
Well, Mary said, get over it, it done. And hopefully you are too.
She's had no time for Britney's nonsense. Did you see when Meredith was talking about how she's like a forgiving person and people deserve second chances? And Britney was like, well, what about me? What about me? Do you forgive me? Do you forgive me? She's like, of course.
She did. We're talking about a woman who's in prison.
And then immediately she's like, and you were throwing up. So, well, you were throwing up.
throwing up yeah well what's worse calling monica or calling jen shaw because that was the whole conversation receiving a call from jen shaw but answering the call being on the call list which is a question whitney said of like are heather are you on her call list i had a friend once who was in prison and i you have to be like approved to be on their call list and you like that's a i do not know prison protocol yep well that's one of them got to be on the call list and so the meredith has been like yeah sure you can add my number on there and yeah you have to get approved to be on the call list you think they're gonna let you call like yeah but that's i mean maybe it's different state by state i don't know step it definitely like meredith that's basically saying meredith had two chances to reconsider her choice but it is crazy it makes it more premeditated it is crazy that jen shaw was able to say what she said about meredith's children and meredith to like forgive her which she sat on this couch and she told us about that call and about having that conversation with jen shaw but i guess for me yeah it's like and I and this is where I stand with Lisa on this it's like if you fuck with Nick or River like you are dead to me like I you know and it's like the fact that Jen Shaw was able to fuck with Meredith's kids and she still takes her calls and Monica made it Lisa talks shit about other people's families all the time and she's on this episode like going at Whitney being like like you came for john and you came in and if you do that man you know it's like okay but again monica made a fucking roast page about a group of women on a show she wasn't on at the time and about her awful person boss i don't even know what the fuck the relationship between them but like how is she worse than jens Jen Shaw defrauding the elderly And taking advantage of people And lying until the day that she had to confess I am not here to say What these women should Do with Jen Shaw But if they are going to give Jen Shaw Grace You have to give Monica Grace I agree I think the producer should say if you want one back, you have to get the other back. Boom.
Well, that would be... I think that if they were both back on Salt Lake City, the entire show would implode, and that the balance that they've reached would be completely ruined.
Well, this balance can stay forever. Yeah.
Fuck balance. But let me have it for a couple more seasons.
Well, they're coming back next season, so... I know.
I can't take much more of Lisa, period. Yeah, I mean, if Jen, never mind.
I'm not going to say what I'm saying. And I guess I just need someone to, like Lisa has had, you know, again, I'm not the historian on Salt Lake that you guys are, but it sure seems like since Jen Shaw has been in prison, Lisa has risen to her throne.
It's Lisa's world. She's Queen Bee.
It's her show. It's her universe.
She's the shot caller. She has her minions.
Yeah, you got some of the other women combating you at Bronwyn. And before it was Jen Shaw.
And now it's like, I'm just kind of tired of Lisa being in charge, in control, the show centered through and around Lisa. I think we need something else.
I think we also need people not going after Lisa. Because I will say, after this reunion, looking back, every season it's people attacking Lisa's character.
So she's always responding in defense. Sure, that's what I'm saying.
We need something else, but something stronger, something... Monica.
We need Monica. We need the only one that can take Lisa Barlow down is Monica or just so much of a distraction that they like yeah they lay off of Lisa Lisa's antics seem less threatening because you have to deal with Jen Shaw and Monica or Lisa can actually be a friend because she doesn't have to defend herself and then like that will give the opportunity for people to come together but that's why it was so great watching them finally get to that point Whitney and Lisa and, and just burning it and hugging and calling it a day, letting each other know if you say this, if you do that, pour the gas.
Give me Mary, give me Monica, give me Whitney, give me Angie on Team Alpha, and then give me Jen, give me Heather, give me Lisa, give me Meredith. Browen on Team Alpha will put Brittany on Team Bravo.
I don't think Jen Shaw needs to be awarded with the TV show I don't either I agree with you I don't think Jen well people have used the word deserve this is TV no one deserves a second chance on TV no one deserves a first chance on TV so I don't think anyone deserves it but if they're gonna bring them back she has good TV I'm on the unpopular side of bring her back 10 years later. I don't.
Not yet. I have Angie now.
And like Angie gives me the one liners and she doesn't have she might go low but it's just not like Jen Shaw I feel grimy low. Yeah.
You need someone to throw the glass at the cameraman every once in a while. Lisa.
That's a joke. Exactly.
I think the thing is like maybe maybe Jen comes back healed. Maybe Jen comes back with her anger issues like figured out where she is not fighting with vitriol and hate and disgust.
But the thing about these girls as as much as they're fighting and as much as their hate as they hate each other. It's all out of joy.
They are enjoying doing this. They're enjoying throwing these Angie when Angie blacks out and says someone has one foot on a banana peel, she is doing that out of like a joy of fighting.
And I think that Jen Shaw is doing it out of like such a deep place of like meanness and hatred that it just like sucks all the air out of the room. And I don't enjoy it on my TV screen.
There's a reason why they tell like recovering addicts and alcoholics, like don't go back to the same group of friends, the same group of people that you were doing all of this stuff that was making you feel like these choices were right. I feel like Jen Shaw being put back into this group of women.
She's going to have that like reaction where that where it's like now I'm back in my element, even though I'm healed or a better version of myself. She's going to slowly start slipping into like the petty bullshit trying to make television.
And it's like if you going to heal heal but like what she did was absolutely disgusting so i'm like i don't think that she deserves a platform but her with her whole giant closet of fake luxury like they would tear her to shreds immediately well like i feel like it'd be like just good tv of like but they had four seasons to do it and no one could step up to Jen Shaw. So that's where it's like, no.
Heather's not.

Heather's definitely not going to. Well, even Heather looked completely broken, whereas like Meredith talking about having

spoken to Jen and whatnot.

It's like the woman gave her a black eye.

Like, yeah.

Why are we sitting here pretending that.

Bring Monica back.

My thoughts.

Oh, 100 percent.

Bring Monica back.

I've been saying that.

We're never going to.

They wanted to.

But also my favorite, too, is Lisa talking to Angie, trying to like reason out things with with Meredith and she was like, Meredith is a lawyer. I'm a fucking hairstylist.
Like she should be taking me to town. Like why are you stepping in and defending the lawyer when let the lawyer speak for herself? I love Angie.
Went to law school never actually practiced law. I'm gonna miss these girls so much on the off season.
Alright, well I think that will wrap up today's episode thank you to our guests derrick and ali joe tomorrow we have a very special amazing going deeper with none other than britney spears ex-husband sam ascari you know him from traitors if you have been wondering about who this man is what is he all about what did britney see in him you You will not want to miss this episode. I was kind

of blown away. Man has a lot to say.
Man has a lot to say. And he says it tomorrow on Going Deeper.

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