E881 Ask Nick - My Body or My Boyfriend?

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Speaker 4 You're crazy.

Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 6 Good. How are you doing today?

Speaker 1 Good. What's your name?

Speaker 6 My name is John. I'm 31 years old.
I'm a virgin who's never had a girlfriend and I'm desperate to break the cycle.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
So you want to have a girlfriend and eventually you hope that leads to maybe just losing your V card, so to speak. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And how much dating, like, what does your dating life look like these days?

Speaker 6 um so i'm on all the dating apps um because i'm kind of introverted so i don't really get out much to date i probably go on a date like every one two maybe three months okay but the problem is it never makes it past the first date and i never do anything on the first date like not even a kiss or anything okay you mentioned you're a little introverted like yeah what do you think your biggest challenges are when it comes to the dates that you go on or just getting dates So I'm kind of shy.

Speaker 6 I feel like I'm kind of awkward.

Speaker 6 I don't really take the initiative and let them know I'm interested. And I don't really flirt because I just, I feel awkward when I do it.
Like I don't really know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 Sure. Okay.
Fair enough. Well, I mean, I can be awkward and shy too.
Yeah, I wish I could, I don't know how to like teach stuff like that.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like, and I hear you, you know, hear your voice. I can be introverted.
I know I can be awkward. I can be fucking weird all the time.

Speaker 1 But every once in a while when I was younger, like I've, I've, I felt like I knew how to like not give a shit and flirt a little bit. Like, I guess going back, let's rewind a little bit.

Speaker 1 Like back in high school, who were you hanging out with? Like, did you go to college? Like, what was your just like your social interactions with friends and women? What was it all like?

Speaker 6 At high school, I wasn't really part of like a close friend group. I was kind of that guy that wasn't really close with anybody, but I knew everybody.

Speaker 6 And in high school, I wasn't really interested in any

Speaker 6 girls because the good ones were either taken or the ones that were single were not my type at all.

Speaker 6 In college, I mean, college was kind of complicated because I started out at a four-year school, then I went to community college, then I went back to a four-year school, but I never really had much of a social or dating life in college besides for when I started using dating apps.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 1 So just what about for figuring out dating, for example, like, you know, friends-wise, like, are you going out much with friends or

Speaker 1 is your even your friend group pretty small?

Speaker 6 My friend group is pretty small, but the ones I do have are pretty close. Okay.
The problem is, like, some of them kind of live far away, so I don't get to see them more than once every few months.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
So where I don't need to know like your exact location or your address or anything. Are you living in a big city, small town? Like where are you residing these days?

Speaker 6 Kind of in between that. I'm in like a medium-sized city.
Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. And what do you do for work?

Speaker 6 Right now I'm kind of in between jobs because I might want to change careers. I just do DoorDash and Uber right now.
And I ref sports.

Speaker 6 Before I was working in a group home for people with disabilities, but I quit that because the pay was horrible and the hours were super long. And now I don't know what I want to do next.

Speaker 1 Okay. What did you go to school for?

Speaker 6 First off, meteorology. I dropped out of that because of all the math and science.
And I eventually graduated with a degree in rehab human services. Oh, very cool.

Speaker 1 So you can kind of do anything you've, you know. What do you think you want to do next?

Speaker 6 I'm not sure. Something I don't hate and something that won't make me work like crazy hours.
Okay. And that pays like halfway decent.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, so you're open-ended at this point.

Speaker 6 Pretty much, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 For you, I would love for you to try to focus on friendships right now. It's really easier to meet people with the opposite sex when you're like around people and in groups of people.

Speaker 1 I think you've kind of described this general like anxiousness, general like kind of awkwardness in social settings.

Speaker 1 And like, honestly, just like going out and practicing with friends is a low stakes way of just getting. comfortable with that.

Speaker 1 Because like, you know, kind of what you're describing is this like a lack of experience, not only just with dating, but just kind of going out there and socializing a little bit.

Speaker 1 Would you say that's accurate?

Speaker 6 I'd say that's accurate. Like, I'm not a total shut-in.
I do go out sometimes, but I don't go out a lot compared to most people.

Speaker 1 So, like, during the week, you do you, you know, like any local friends to like go grab a coffee with or just kind of get out or grab dinner with?

Speaker 6 Do you have that? Once in a while. Um, I do have family that lives close by, so I see them a lot, but normally I'm just on my own.

Speaker 1 All right, I'd like for you to try to work on changing that. Are there any like extra career, you know, like uh out, you know, after-hour stuff, whether it's you know, groups? I don't know.

Speaker 1 What are your hobbies? What are you into? Like, what do you like to do for fun?

Speaker 6 Uh, so I'm really into sports. Um, I play tennis and I play golf.
I'm in a men's tennis league, and with golf, I usually just go with one of my family members that lives close by.

Speaker 6 All right, I like seeing concerts, I've been to quite a few.

Speaker 1 Okay, who are you meeting in your men's tennis league? I love that, that's great.

Speaker 6 I mean, I socialize, I talk to people, but I wouldn't say I really make any friends there. I mean, a lot of them are like

Speaker 6 in their 50s and 60s. So that kind of sucks.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, you never know. I mean, depending on, I don't know what they're, you know, 50 or 60 year olds might not be interested in new friends, but you never.

Speaker 1 I will say in my adult life, like when you're younger, you're a little bit more choosy on friends. You're just like looking for people who very much like do the same things you do or very similar age.

Speaker 1 In my adult life, I've made friends that, you know, I never would have imagined I made friends with, whether it's a drastic age difference, just very different, you know, general interest.

Speaker 1 But like, you know, you might be, you might be surprised. I think in general, like, I think opening up friendships is just a great way to practice social skills, right?

Speaker 1 Because you're kind of describing, fuck, I go on these dates. I mean, shit, man, if I were any, I mean, anyone, anyone who doesn't like have a lot of practice, right?

Speaker 1 Like, if you put yourself into a high stakes environment with very little practice,

Speaker 1 what are the chances you're going to be your best self?

Speaker 1 You know like most people like are super afraid of like uh public speaking right then someone was like oh man i want you to go give this speech in front of this room of 400 people and you're like great you know i imagine you'd want to practice you know you have to practice to do well if you just were like all right well tell me when and you went and showed up but you had no practice public speaking i mean i guess you just cross your fingers and hope you don't get nervous chances are you're going to get nervous and it's going to you're going to you know i i know i would you know what i'm saying so you really just have kind of have to practice this stuff you know?

Speaker 1 And I think challenging yourself to do that, you know, the hard part is, it's like kind of getting over that hump of not giving a shit about the awkwardness or, you know, how, what people might think about you and things like that, you know, and getting into your head and ruminating all your worst fears of what could happen.

Speaker 1 And those are all normal, but it's kind of just kind of.

Speaker 1 not giving a fuck, you know, it's and kind of having that mentality and trying to find a companion to go out with, you know, a sporting event or whatever, a concert, you know, just get out, meet people, socialize, goof around, you know,

Speaker 1 that's what I would love to see for you.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I do think you're right about that because like that's one of my main flaws, I think. I'm too concerned with what people think about me.
So like I'm a people pleaser.

Speaker 6 I hate that I am, but I am that way.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wish I'm not. I wish I could, I'm trying to figure out, I should probably read a book on people.
Have you read any books on people pleasing? Do you know anything about it?

Speaker 1 No, not really. Okay.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, I know, like, for example, like, you know, we talk about setting boundaries all the time on the show.

Speaker 1 And, like, I always talk about how, I mean, I'm kind of going off a tangent here, but a lot of people are people pleasers.

Speaker 1 And the reason why a lot of people have a hard time setting boundaries is because boundaries is you just like kind of limiting access from someone.

Speaker 1 And then that usually pisses people off and they get mad. And if you're a people pleaser, you don't want people to be mad at you, was kind of my point.

Speaker 1 But I'm, I just, you know, I've always wondered why I'm not. I don't know.
I don't know what the root is. I wish, you know, it's like one of those things you say, oh, I'm a people pleaser.

Speaker 1 And I hear from a lot of people, I wish I could be like, oh, well, do you do X, Y, or Z? And that's why and work on this. But I'm not sure why I'm not a people pleaser.
Why do you think?

Speaker 6 Yeah, and I do think that really.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you thought about it?

Speaker 6 I think that's like a huge problem on my, like on the dates I go on to, because like part of the reason I don't really make any moves is because if I'm not sure that they're into me, I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 Well, we love that. Yeah.
We don't want to change that. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And like, if, if they don't reciprocate like my moves, my feelings, then it's pretty awkward, I feel like.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I think part, I think, well, one, you know, I've had this conversation with more women who are virgins.

Speaker 1 I can imagine now that when you go on dates, you're adding unnecessary pressure to those dates, whether it's, you know, one, getting the second date, two, oh, am I going to get a kiss tonight?

Speaker 1 Three, like, God forbid, if I get a second date a kiss, well, like, oh, will this be the first time I have sex or something?

Speaker 1 I mean, the stakes are so unnecessarily high for you, potentially, if you, if you make them that way.

Speaker 1 I do know in general, yeah, we're always attracted to people who present as confident, present as not really caring what people think.

Speaker 1 More than anything, I think I'd love for you to try to challenge that. I'm not trying to like, you know, it's like if

Speaker 1 you were here and I'd be like, all right, how do I teach this guy how to be confident? Or how do I teach this guy this?

Speaker 1 You know, I don't want to turn you into some douchebag kind of guy who like, you know what I'm saying? That's not the, that's not the goal.

Speaker 1 Like it's, it's not, it's not about being disingenuous or a jerk or rude to people it's not about being dismissive it's about being confident in what you're doing in whatever it is right i don't know i see you're wearing a hoodie right now you know i don't know what you know you're wearing jeans i don't know if it's very fashionable or it's not fashionable whatever but who gives a shit you're wearing it and you like it so like it's just one of those things like when it comes to your attire whatever you're wearing you just have to feel good you know it's like owning that right whatever you say or do just kind of owning your decisions like i mean little things like when you go on dates, I'm curious, are you asking them where do they want to go?

Speaker 1 Are you, are you offering ideas?

Speaker 6 It depends on the person. Sometimes they'll suggest something.
Sometimes I'll suggest something.

Speaker 1 Well, if someone suggests something, we love that. You know, we love an idea, especially if they're a place that they're comfortable with.

Speaker 1 And I think early on in dating, if a woman's suggesting a place she wants to go, I think that's a great way. I think there's, you should.

Speaker 1 generally always unless you have a mind you know depending on your ideas but if you don't have any good ideas and she has one, take her up on that idea.

Speaker 1 Also, she just might like, it might be a place that she's familiar with, feels safe around, you know, and women generally love to feel safe. Is any of this, is any of this resonating with you?

Speaker 6 Oh, it is, yeah.

Speaker 6 I mean, I've talked to people about this and I've heard similar things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what are they? Yeah, what are they?

Speaker 6 I've just never really like taken the initiative to, you know, do it and better myself like that.

Speaker 1 It is one of,

Speaker 1 you know, I hear you. It's just hard.
It's hard to, it's one thing. I'm here.

Speaker 1 I'm just like, yeah, yo be confident in the sweatshirt you're you're you're wearing and then i get off the phone and expect you to walk into a coffee shop and be you know rico suave but i think part of awkwardness if i'm trying to break it down comes from like just indecisiveness and second guessing yourself you know especially it's just like you can get really awkward when you're like what should i say how should i say it i hope i i hope i say it right ah you know like Yeah, honestly, when I'm on dates,

Speaker 6 that's like so much of what I think. It's definitely a problem.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 When I go out with my men's tennis league to dinner, like it's, it's like no pressure at all because like there's no one I'm trying to like get into a relationship with, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 That totally makes sense. How do you, how do you try to replicate that? You know what? You, you need, you need a girlfriend.

Speaker 1 And you're like, yeah, no shit. That's why I called.
I mean a friend that's a girl. Like

Speaker 1 how many platonic friends of how many platonic women friends do you have in your life?

Speaker 6 I have one and I'm super close with her.

Speaker 1 Okay, you do. And what's that conversation? What do you do? About this stuff?

Speaker 6 Yeah, sometimes.

Speaker 6 She's she's engaged and she has a ton of experience with dating. So she tries to give me advice as much as she can.

Speaker 1 Are you friends with her fiancé?

Speaker 6 I wouldn't say I'm close with her fiancé, but we get along.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 How have you known this friend?

Speaker 6 About two and a half years. It's funny because we met on Bumble and we decided like we weren't each other's type, but we decided to keep talking and now we're like super close friends.

Speaker 1 I love that. You haven't asked her her at all about dating advice.

Speaker 6 Um, I ask her all the time.

Speaker 1 You do, did she give you any feedback like on your date? I mean, because, like, here's a person you met on Bumble. I kind of, I love where this is going.

Speaker 1 It's something, but you met her on Bumble. It didn't work out, as often that happens.
I've met a lot of great friends when I was a single guy and I was just like dating.

Speaker 1 There are some women that we dated and we ended up just being better friends. That's great.
But there is maybe, if you're willing, feedback to get from that, from her.

Speaker 1 Has she offered you any feedback on why, for her, like it just wasn't a thing?

Speaker 6 It wasn't really the lack of chemistry when we met. It was more like our life goals didn't align.
So it would never work out long term.

Speaker 1 Okay. Like what?

Speaker 6 Like, she wants kids.

Speaker 1 I don't. Okay.

Speaker 6 That's the big thing.

Speaker 1 Just out of curiosity, why did you already decide you don't want to have kids?

Speaker 6 It's just too much of a responsibility for me. I want to live my own life, not have to worry about taking care of a child.

Speaker 1 Cool.

Speaker 1 It may change when you meet someone. I don't know.
You never know.

Speaker 6 How often do you talk to this girlfriend most days sometimes we'll go like a day or two without talking but like some we'll we'll just talk sometimes we'll play eye message games sometimes but we usually talk most days and her fiancé how many times have you met him like

Speaker 1 four or five maybe six times something like that and he's generally cool with you because i mean normally yeah okay

Speaker 1 man i'd love for you to almost become friends with this guy too yeah well the problem is like she lives pretty far away oh she also lives far away okay yeah

Speaker 6 So I mean I try to see them like once or twice a year. Okay.
And when I do like we all hang out. We all get along.
There's no way she's like he knows that I won't try to make a move on here.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, that seems obvious.
What I would love, yeah, I mean whatever.

Speaker 1 They don't live close. So it's.

Speaker 1 I kind of want you to get like a buddy who's like can kind of almost teach you the ropes a little bit, you know, like someone who's a little bit more extroverted than you, you know, someone who goes out a little bit more, you know, than you.

Speaker 1 But every once in a while, when you have the itch to be social and you go out, you kind of have someone to go out with. And that's the thing.

Speaker 1 It's just, I want you, if possible, to, and I say this as who someone can be very introverted and loves to be at home and alone in my thoughts.

Speaker 1 So I hear you on that. But like, if you want to meet people, you are going to have to challenge yourself to get out there and put yourself in social settings that normally you wouldn't choose to.

Speaker 1 And now your hope, right, is that you find a lovely, rather introverted girl who also, for the most part, likes to stay at home, but just also happens to be out, you know, and that's not the only way to meet someone, but I do think you just need the practice to like fuck around and find out.

Speaker 1 Just goof around, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like have a low stakes conversation with a girl that, you know, you think is kind of cute, but like you're just, you know, you're just trying to have a conversation, you know?

Speaker 1 With you, it's just like, man, you're on these dating apps and then once a month, and maybe once every two or three months, you finally get a date.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, man, it would be so easy to psych yourself out. I don't know how you wouldn't psych yourself out, you know? You have to try to not psych yourself out.

Speaker 1 What are conversations you're trying to have on dates?

Speaker 6 I mean, we just got to know each other. Like, what do we like to do? What do we do for work? Tell stories about our life.
It never really goes deeper than that.

Speaker 1 What's your type?

Speaker 6 Like, physically or like personality-wise?

Speaker 1 Both.

Speaker 6 Physically,

Speaker 6 I mean, I don't really know how to describe it. Like, I just don't want to go for someone I'm not attracted to, you know, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, no one does. I'm just curious who you're, who you're going for.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 6 I mean, physically, I've gone on dates with a lot of different types. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Personality-wise, it's funny because I'm an introvert, but I feel like extroverts open me up a lot more.

Speaker 1 I would imagine they do, yeah. My wife is definitely a lot more extroverted than I am.

Speaker 1 You know, she definitely has an introverted side in the sense that like we both are home bodies, but like in social settings she's far more normal than I am and way more social and she definitely loosens me up and it's nice to have her by my side in social settings and so yeah I mean that that'd be my dream for you is again like someone who is a little bit more extroverted than you certainly like isn't so extroverted that like you can't you can't be with someone who's super extroverted that would never work But there's a lot of people out there who are a little bit of both.

Speaker 1 Even though if they lean introverted, they have an extroverted side. You might be more on the introverted side.
When was the last date you had?

Speaker 6 Uh, about three months ago, I met up with this girl that lives like an hour away. We went out for dinner.

Speaker 6 I liked her, I wanted a second date, but she told me like two days later she didn't feel a connection, which is how it goes 90% of the time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, are you always going out to dinner?

Speaker 6 Not always, I'd say like half the time I do.

Speaker 6 Um, sometimes I go bowling, mini-golfing. I've taken women to soccer games before and a couple other sporting events.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, I would say sporting events and like I would say events where you're both sitting, harder to do.
It's a long commitment and you're sitting next to each other.

Speaker 1 You're already someone who's not necessarily good with the gift of gab and just like long conversations.

Speaker 1 So if you take someone to a sporting event that you have very little rapport with, you're sitting next to someone.

Speaker 1 And unless they're just like the biggest fucking soccer, biggest fucking fans of what the thing that you brought them to it's kind of your responsibility to entertain them and so what ends up happening is there are all these awkward pauses and moments of silence and then that person feels kind of like oh we didn't really have any chemistry i mean it's a harder environment for you to be dynamic in and it's a harder environ environment for two people to have you know because it's like well we're here for three hours i mean most sporting events are what two three hours long and again unless you're both really into the game, you're kind of like casually watching the game while casually trying to have a conversation.

Speaker 1 It opens up the possibility for a lot of awkward moments. For you, even that's why dinner, I asked for you always go on dinner dates.

Speaker 1 Even for a first date with someone you haven't talked too much, a whole meal of food.

Speaker 1 You know, again, like that's potentially a long conversation. Try to keep it simpler.
You know, coffee dates. I love the bowling.
I love the mini golf. I love those things.

Speaker 1 Even more mini golf because it's like, you know, it's always active. You can like joke around.
You can have fun. You can be a little competitive.
You can try to be goofy.

Speaker 1 You know, you can have a few chats here or there, but there's always something to do. You can always, you know, there's always that break where you bowl and she bowls, you know, or

Speaker 1 mini golf. So I would, I would try to lean more activities on dates.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I agree with you because normally when I go on a dinner date with somebody, like there's rare times where like, yeah, it goes really well, I think.

Speaker 6 But most of the time, it's just an awkward conversation that we never see each other again.

Speaker 6 Dinner dates are just so easy to plan, though. Yeah, I know.
That's why I do them so much.

Speaker 1 Let me ask you this. When you called in, like, was there one or two things you're like, man, I really hope Nick can answer this, or I really hope Nick could, like, steer me in this direction?

Speaker 1 I, you know, I only ask that because it's just like, you know, I don't have any like, oh, you do these five things type of things.

Speaker 1 You know, I really, I sincerely want to like point you in the right direction, but I'm not sure where to start with you.

Speaker 6 That's a good question. I mean, you've, you've told me a lot of useful things already.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, that's good.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I'm not really sure. I feel like I can't dive super deep into dating if I have no experience.
Like, I just have to get my feet wet first.

Speaker 1 You definitely do. Let me ask you this.
The women you're saying yes to, what are you more drawn to? Are you, is it the strong physical attraction and you, you have some things in common that you like?

Speaker 1 Or is it more like, oh, like she seems fun and we have some things in common and she seems kind of cute, you know?

Speaker 1 Like, what what are you more drawn to physical attraction is what draws me in okay but then like the the chemistry the connection just really makes me like her so hear me out i don't think you should start going out on dates with a bunch of people you find unattractive i'm not saying that but i do think you should challenge yourself to maybe be a little bit more open-minded when it comes to your dates physical appearances.

Speaker 1 For one, you just need the practice. You know what I'm saying? And I think you need, and I, and again, you also have to go into this with the right mindset, right?

Speaker 1 Because I want you to still be interested. I want you to still be respectful, obviously.
I still want you to be like, you know, you have to show that you care, right?

Speaker 1 Like on any date, if you could just walk into a date kind of being confident in who you are, whatever you bring to the table, like I'm, you know, I'm,

Speaker 1 how tall are you? 5'11. 5'11.
What a great height, you know? So you got no height problems, you know, like you're 5'11.

Speaker 1 You seem like a handsome guy you got a good head of hair like you know like you could be doing much worse for yourself so i want you to show up to these dates being like i'm this 5'11 guy with a good head of hair and like you know i'm whatever and i hope this person is interested in getting to know me and then you just kind of just not think about what to say you just ask questions and then you just kind of try to have some fun i'm getting the sense that maybe you know also you're a guy so but you you land on someone you find is hot and then you're like really excited that someone's hot, and then you talk to them on the apps, and you finally get, you know, them to go on a date with you, but you're too focused on hoping that this pretty person likes you.

Speaker 6 That's 100% right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the stakes are too hot, you know? And again, I mean, you're a handsome guy, but as you've also pointed out, you're an awkward, kind of inexperienced guy.

Speaker 1 And so you need more experience to kind of talk. And I'll be honest, like, you might go on these dates.

Speaker 1 And, you know, again, I'm not saying you should go on on dates with a bunch of people you find unattractive, but I think you should be a little more open-minded to meeting women, meeting people, be genuinely interested in getting to know these women and be open to being surprised how you might feel about them.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? And that might make you feel a little bit more confident, right? Because you're going into these dates

Speaker 1 less pressure, you know, because you're like, I don't know, I'm going out with this girl. You know, I don't know how I think.

Speaker 1 It's funny because, like, there's a lot.

Speaker 1 Sir, I'm curious Sarah is in the review you can't see her most like a lot of women you see going out with men that they've they're like they're just like not as they're not as pretty as they are

Speaker 1 what are women looking for when they do that I mean, it depends.

Speaker 5 A lot of the times it's not about physical attraction. It really is about the connection that you make with somebody and feeling safe with them.

Speaker 5 That I'm like being able to have open conversations and be genuinely interested in what they have to share and making jokes and just being lighthearted instead of having so much, putting so much pressure on it.

Speaker 5 I think that's why it's like women are attracted to more than just physical attributes because you meet a lot of attractive people with shitty personalities.

Speaker 1 Totally.

Speaker 1 I want you to have the practice to hang out with women that you're not trying to have sex with or trying to lose your virginity with and you're not worried if they like you, you know, and I want you to practice being yourself around them, you know, and having it.

Speaker 1 I want, I don't, I don't want your goal. to be getting a second date or getting a kiss or getting having sex.

Speaker 1 I want you to go on these dates and your goal is to make sure that the two of you have the best possible time. That's it.
It's fun.

Speaker 1 I want, you know, it's like, it's, I want you to go on the date and be like, my job is to make sure me and this date and this girl, I don't even know her. I hope to get to know her.

Speaker 1 I hope we have fun. And you want to get to know them, but like, you just want to have some fun and you want to be a little adventurous.

Speaker 1 And like, I think a lot of guys in your shoes struggle with that balance between being a gentleman and being polite and taking the lead.

Speaker 6 Exactly. That's, that's, that sums sums it up perfectly.
So

Speaker 1 being a gentleman and being polite is opening the door, you know, paying for their meal,

Speaker 1 you know, just being present, being courteous, being a gentleman, you know, not making weird jokes about their bodies and things like that, you know, not being crude. That's being a gentleman.

Speaker 1 Taking the lead is, hey, I know a great place we can go and have fun. This is where we should go on a date.
Not, will you go? Like, I think we should go here. What do you think?

Speaker 1 We should do this later. You know, it's just being more assertive and being confident.

Speaker 1 So to do that, think of things that you think are fun and then say, hey, I know this really fun place we should go. Let's go.

Speaker 1 You have to be confident what you're doing in order to be assertive, right?

Speaker 1 Because if you're not con, if you don't believe in what you're saying, you're not going to want to assert that onto someone else, you know?

Speaker 6 Yeah, totally understand. It makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, try to. open up your mind to this go out with more women that honestly, I think your goal should be, I want to meet more women.
I want to be curious about the women I'm meeting.

Speaker 1 I want to have fun with these women. I want to be open-minded.
And yeah, and like,

Speaker 1 who gets you? Like, this is you're, you're a guy who's been very honest about like, you're not, you're not getting a lot of kisses. You're not having any, you have nothing to lose here.

Speaker 6 That's true.

Speaker 1 So, in terms of like being willing to kiss someone, for who gives a shit? You know, kiss anyone.

Speaker 1 You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 I've actually gotten the first one out of the way.

Speaker 6 It's kind of

Speaker 6 a weird story how it happened, but

Speaker 1 it's out of the way.

Speaker 6 How did it happen?

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 that friend that I told you about, girl, she told one of her friends that I hadn't had my first kiss, and she offered to kiss me when I came out there to hang out.

Speaker 1 Oh, was it? And so she did.

Speaker 6 So I've had my first kiss. It didn't mean anything, but I've had it.

Speaker 1 I actually love that. It's great.
I mean, honestly, part of that is it's like you have to take the pressure off yourself. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, I'm sure people have told you, have you seen it, the 40-year-old virgin?

Speaker 6 I have. Okay.
It's more like a documentary.

Speaker 1 Well, good. I mean, I'm glad you feel that way, but like, there's a lot, there's a lot of good things to learn from that.
You know what I'm saying? Like, you kind of almost remind me of the character.

Speaker 1 Like, you're a handsome guy. Steve Carell's handsome guy, you know, nice.
You know, it's like, I don't know you.

Speaker 1 I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not like some weird serial killer, you know, because you seem like a normal, nice, well-rounded guy that you have a lot of the qualities.

Speaker 1 So many women who call in are like, I wish I could find a guy who would just be normal and nice, you know, and you seem normal and nice.

Speaker 1 You have a hard time showing that on dates because you get introverted, you get a little awkward, you start second guessing yourself.

Speaker 1 Most women out there want an assertive, confident guy who can make them laugh and make them feel safe.

Speaker 1 What they don't want is what I'm guessing you do sometimes is like they feel like they don't want to have to emotionally take care of a man, especially on their first couple couple days.

Speaker 1 You know, maybe after they fall in love, have a kid or two, get married, fine. They'll, they'll be your therapist.

Speaker 1 But like, they want a, they want a guy who, who kind of takes care of himself and is confident in what they're doing.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I, I hear like the most common complaint from women that I hear is like, oh, guys just want sex all the time. Like they try to move too fast.
Sure.

Speaker 6 And I feel like I'm the complete opposite end of that spectrum.

Speaker 1 I believe.

Speaker 6 Like I don't, I, I don't like do anything. I just talk to them like I would talk to anybody else.
And they, they, I, I, I've been told that I give off friend vibe because of that, not boyfriend vibes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm sure you do. Yeah.
And part of that is because you're, you haven't struck that balance, again, between being a gentleman and being, and taking the leave. You're not asserting yourself.

Speaker 1 Yeah, all women want to feel safe. Uh, they don't want a guy who's constantly obsessed with sex, but I do think they want to feel pursued.
I want you to get more practice.

Speaker 1 I, you know, I want you to lean your friend that's a girl that you can open up to about this who already set you up the first kiss.

Speaker 1 I mean, if I were you, and even with her fiancé, you know, lean on them. Guys, I'm struggling with this.
I want, I want to get more confident. I want to like just be better on dates.

Speaker 1 I want to get more practice. Like you can get better at this.
I know you can. It's just like, you need some help.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 And you need some like mentors and friends who are a little better at this than you are to show you the ropes and like take you out there and just kind of have some fun and loosen you up and like just get some get some reps you know right now you got no one kind of helping you out you're going on infrequent dates and then when you go on them the stakes are so goddamn high you don't even know what to do dates are already hard enough even if you're good at it you're like chances are if you go on a date once every three months they're not going to go the way you want you know and so I just want you to get more reps.

Speaker 1 I also want you to focus on your career right now. Honestly, I know you're 31.
I know you're still a virgin. I know you're tired of it, but you're only 31.

Speaker 1 And you do have the benefit of being a man that you, and you don't even want to have kids. So you have no biological clock to worry about.

Speaker 1 Literally, you know, and you're really young. I want you to like, especially for a man, you're incredibly young.
So more than anything, I want you to try to take the pressure off yourself.

Speaker 1 Stop telling yourself, I'm 31. I haven't had sex yet.
Oh, I haven't had, who gives a fuck? I don't care. It really doesn't matter.
No one gives a shit about your roster anymore.

Speaker 1 Certainly not people you should be hanging out with. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like 18-year-old guys did back in the day, but no one cares if whether, you know, had you slept with 50 women to this point or not, no one really cares, right?

Speaker 1 You might have been a little bit better at the sex. But other than that, like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, you don't, where do you, do you show up anywhere and be like, how many people have you had sex with? You know what I'm saying? Like, has it gotten you into any? No one cares, right?

Speaker 1 So stop judging yourself. Stop putting pressure on yourself.
You have a long life ahead of you.

Speaker 1 And if you work on this in the short run, you know, again, especially as a guy who has no interest in having kids, you have, fuck, you have so many years in front of you, you know what I'm saying, to like have as much sex or as little sex or as much girlfriends as you could possibly want.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? Like, you're only

Speaker 1 18.

Speaker 1 You're only 13 years into your adult life. So honestly, your track record's not that bad.
And let's assume you live to your 85, right? You know, and so you have 50 some left years of dating left.

Speaker 1 you're you're good to go you know I'm saying you've only wasted 13 I'm just trying to offer some perspective because so much of is in your head and the pressure you put on yourself and like I want you to go in and have a kiss and just you kiss you know it's gonna take some like building up my confidence to do that but eventually I do want to be able to do that yeah and you can you just have to practice and I think having and leaning on your friends your girlfriend your friend that's a girl who you know and just be vulnerable with her i need i need your help you know and like I think it's really important for people who are looking to make friends, for people who are looking to meet people to

Speaker 1 express that with their circle of influence.

Speaker 1 So whenever it makes sense to let people know that you're looking to get more out there, you're looking to be more active, you have your tennis club, that's great.

Speaker 1 Try to find other things that are like more co-ed

Speaker 1 and that maybe have more people your age. Because I'm glad you like to play, you know, and if you love to play tennis because you like the sport and it helps you relax, great, keep doing that.

Speaker 1 We're having you do stuff because we want you to meet people. This is not about whether you play tennis or badminton or knit.

Speaker 1 You know, we're just trying to get you into a social setting where people are there to also meet other people. Co-ed leagues, especially if you like, the fact that you're into sports is great.

Speaker 1 Like, there's a lot of co-ed soccer leagues, volleyball leagues, things like that. That would go a long way.

Speaker 1 And I think the more you immerse yourself into these social settings and, you know, challenge your introverted self, you know, once or twice a week to go out to these events or social groups and then with your friends also just say hey I want to get out more I want to practice you know I want to you know meet more people and then on the dating apps be more open to you know for the ladies reaching out to you be willing to talk to them you know you're you don't know where it's going to go maybe you will just make more friends you know what I'm saying like a lot of these ladies you could just end up being friends with be open to that you know be open to meeting as many people as possible because I think that will really help you you know in terms of social settings and just you know talking to people because a date doesn't have to be any different than a coffee with a friend or watching a game with a friend it's just the only difference is the stakes and the pressure you put on it go watch a game at a sports bar and like strike up a conversation

Speaker 6 do you do that much do you have like a what do you um not really i mean yeah i mean i i don't really drink so i don't go to bars that much in the first place You don't have to drink.

Speaker 6 But I do enjoy watching sports. Maybe I should just get out and just just try to

Speaker 6 go somewhere and watch it instead of just sitting on my couch.

Speaker 1 I really think that's honestly, that's a bit, you know, that's the thing. How many people can you meet on your couch?

Speaker 6 None.

Speaker 1 You know, and I say that as someone who has a strong introverted side, you got to get out. Getting out, being active, interacting with people is the only way to really practice this stuff.

Speaker 1 Your approach has been, well, I'm not really, I'm not, I'm kind of introverted. You know, I feel a little awkward talking to women.
I don't have a bunch of practice, but I don't really like going out.

Speaker 1 So I'm not really going to go out. But every once in a while, I'll try to go on a date.
And when I do, I'm going to, I hope I'm going to just be this person I've never been before.

Speaker 1 You know, like, how do you do that? It's impossible.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Like, I have that unrealistic expectation every single time.
And then when the date ends, I, like, I get.

Speaker 6 upset that I wasn't like that, even though there was never really a realistic chance I would have been.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, I mean, I get what you're saying, but like, there is a chance because I think you're a more than eligible bachelor. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, it's just, yeah, you're probably, yeah, you're not getting out enough and not getting enough of practice.

Speaker 1 But to use your analogy, like the one I used before earlier, it's just like, who would Nikki Glazer, you know, friend of show, just, just hosted the Golden Globes. She crushed it.

Speaker 1 This is years of her doing roasts and stand-up, and I've been on her shows.

Speaker 1 Like, I couldn't, if they would have hired me to do the Golden Globes like two weeks ago, I would not have been able to show up and did what Nikki Glazer just did. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 She years of experience and practice and crushing it and doing all these amazing things. I couldn't have done what she did.

Speaker 1 Well, I couldn't have done what she did because she's been practicing and cutting her teeth and like getting the reps in.

Speaker 1 And now she walked out on that stage and acted like it was like she, it was just like just another day because it's, you know, she's made her career practicing this, you know, and getting good at it.

Speaker 1 You know, like, and dating's no different, man. You know, go to the gym.
The first day you go to the gym, gym, are you crushing it? No, you're you, you, you lift.

Speaker 1 You don't work out for like six months and you squat without weights. You can't walk the next day.
You know, your body's like, what the fuck is going on? What are we doing here?

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? You got to, you got to show up every day. You got to get better at it.
You got to practice.

Speaker 1 And dating and communicating and interacting with people is no different.

Speaker 1 It's all, it's all, those are all skills that you have, you just, you have been avoiding working on, you know, and then you go on dates and then you beat yourself up emotionally and make yourself feel bad like no one likes me meanwhile like in between your dates you're just hanging out by yourself yeah my problem is like i'm so comfortable just hanging out alone in my apartment and i just never get out of my comfort zone you gotta do that just because just because like hanging out on my own is good enough and we like

Speaker 1 we love we love people who can hang out on their on their own because a lot of people we talk to who can't do that and they end up just investing their energy on on a bunch of meaningless people that's a great skill that you have you'll hang on to that for the rest of your life you know but like you now you have to learn how to interact with other people and get out there and even though you're most comfortable being alone you have to challenge yourself to get out there and then eventually you'll start i think you start enjoying you know going out more when you start having more success at it yeah yeah because like the the times in the past year where i have gone out i've been with a lot of people like i did well like i i i really enjoyed it and i feel like the other people i was with enjoyed my company yeah i'm sure they did yeah

Speaker 1 so honestly i think you need to look at this as a more of a long-term plan take sex off the table in your head and even like take getting your girlfriend off the table i want you to focus in the next couple years or whatever who knows i mean i don't know maybe tomorrow you may meet the level of your life but a reason i want you to take a long-term approach is because like it's so easy to get yourself discouraged and beat yourself up.

Speaker 1 And this shit takes time. You have, you know, you are very young, but you have also had 31 years of this behavior.
You're very comfortable with how you do things right now.

Speaker 1 And it's going to take you some time to reprogram yourself, you know, and it's going to take, and it's going to take time. So you have to be willing to like take it easy, get out there, try it out.

Speaker 1 It's going to feel uncomfortable, get back out there, go on a date, have it not go the way you want, whatever, practice some more. But like, you're like, whatever.
This is about meeting people.

Speaker 1 This is about getting better at this skill. Here's what you're doing now, using the Nikki Glazer analogy.
You're just like, oh, fuck, I just got hired to go to Lila's.

Speaker 1 I guess I better fucking crush it. And then you go on and you don't crush it.
Of course you would have crushed it. You have no practice, you know, you, you know.

Speaker 1 And so I want you to like, like, think of, think of like you are, instead of This is about dating. This is like, this is like you getting into stand-up comedy.

Speaker 1 And at first, you're just going to tell a couple couple friends a couple jokes you know what i'm saying and then maybe you will perform in front of a small room and then maybe this you know what i'm saying like the goal is hosting the golden globes you know what i'm saying that's going to take some time and that's goal is like having sex with your girlfriend i know i'm being a little ridiculous right now but i do think you need to like take it easy on yourself work into this you know if you if you plan a date and all of a sudden you're wondering if this is the if this is it going to be it it's you're going to fail it's just too much stakes it's too much pressure i want you to go in and be like you know what?

Speaker 1 I want to have fun today. I want to make sure this girl has a really good time.
And I don't, honestly, I don't, second date, I don't know. I don't care.
It's not my job right now.

Speaker 1 My job is to make sure her and I have a really good time. And I'm just not going to give a fuck other than making sure she has a good time.
And if you focus on that, I think you'll have more success.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think you're right. Because right now, like my attitude is like, I want to go from zero to 100 and dating.
And that's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 It's not going to happen.

Speaker 6 Even though, like, I, I kind of want it to. It will.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you do. But you're only 31.

Speaker 1 I didn't meet my wife until I was 40. You have a long life ahead of you.

Speaker 1 Accept that this has been 31 years and you have a lot to practice and you're not going to go from zero to 100, but don't beat yourself up and acting like you have to get to the finish line next week.

Speaker 1 33 is still really young, but you could have two years of better experience

Speaker 1 if you make a different approach.

Speaker 1 Or you can sit it, or you can keep doing what you're doing, sitting in your apartment most of the time and every, you know, and five times a year, go on a date with absolutely no practice, and they'll all go the same.

Speaker 1 So, get yourself out there, challenge yourself to do that. Talk to your friends, ask for their advice, ask for their encouragement, ask for ideas.

Speaker 1 For you, this is all about getting out of your comfort zone, getting out of your house on a regular basis, and practicing interacting with people.

Speaker 6 Got it. That sounds great.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, keep us posted, man.
I'd love to know how this goes over the years, but take your time, man.

Speaker 6 Thank you. I definitely will.

Speaker 1 All right. Best of luck.
Thank you. All right.
Take care. Bye-bye.
Bye.

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Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 7 Hi. My name is Beth.
I'm 29 years old, and I kissed my guy best friend on New Year's Eve, and now I have feelings for him.

Speaker 1 Oh, now you have feelings? Like magically after the kiss, you develop these feelings you never thought you had?

Speaker 7 Honestly, yeah.

Speaker 7 It wasn't just a kiss. Did hook up.

Speaker 1 Oh, you hooked up. Oh, okay.
Okay.

Speaker 7 We did hook up. And so.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, set the stage for me.
All right. So like, Eric, 6 p.m.
New Year's Eve night. What are we doing? Like, how did, how did this all unfold?

Speaker 7 So.

Speaker 7 He was out of town and debating whether or not to come back in town.

Speaker 7 And he ended up coming back in town and he set set up a plan for a group of friends and invited me to come along, mostly just his friends and then invited me to come along.

Speaker 1 Are these guy friends or are these girl and guy friends?

Speaker 7 It was mostly other couples.

Speaker 1 Oh, mostly other couples.

Speaker 7 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 7 And so then we, I kind of had it in the back of my head, knowing it was New Year's and knowing that it was mostly other couples that something might happen, but we had never crossed that line before.

Speaker 1 Wait, wait, so you're saying you suspected something might happen just because it was other couples?

Speaker 7 Yeah. And it's, we were the only two people who were single.

Speaker 1 What made you, well, what's the history of this friendship? How long have you known this guy?

Speaker 7 Yeah. So we have been friends for almost seven years.
Okay.

Speaker 7 And we started out working together and then we don't work together anymore, but we lived in different cities for most of our friendship, like totally across the country.

Speaker 7 And then a couple years ago, he moved to the city that I live in. Okay.

Speaker 7 And so a couple of years ago, we started just hanging out more one-on-one, just mostly because he didn't know a lot of people in the new city that he moved to. And we just, we just got closer

Speaker 7 over the last couple of years, but we both did not ever let it get to a point where we were getting closer or where we would put ourselves in a position where it might cross a line.

Speaker 7 And till the other night.

Speaker 1 There's no like flirting. Like up until the other night, what was the closest you guys ever got to it being anything other than friends honestly like

Speaker 7 it hadn't really ever gotten closer other than like people around us saying things like are you sure you guys don't like each other and like kind of like doing that thing that people do when they see two people who they think could be together but both of us would were just always like no like we're just friends we're just friends and from your point of view why were you just being like nah we're just friends like what was your honest feelings towards him just as a friend or was it someone like you thought was always kind of cute?

Speaker 7 It wasn't. So

Speaker 7 he's not my typical physical type. I'm not typically the kind of person that I go after.
So that's part of it that I just sort of like never really went there in my head.

Speaker 7 I think part of it's also that I was not really taking dating very seriously, kind of just like with a lot of fuckboys and that kind of thing and just whatever for a while until the last couple of years when I've gotten a little bit older.

Speaker 7 Honestly, like, I just don't don't think I ever let myself go there mentally. Like, if we ever, like, I ever started to kind of like think about it, because of course I thought about it.

Speaker 7 Like, I'm not going to deny that I didn't think about it, but we just never let it go there, never let it even consider it as an option. And I didn't eat it either.

Speaker 1 So, anyways, you suspected maybe something would happen. You guys have this like group hang, all couples, and then you guys, and then what happens?

Speaker 7 So, then, like, right before midnight, I

Speaker 7 went over over and sat down next to him and he like immediately put his hand on my leg and I was like, okay, yeah, it's on.

Speaker 7 And then we kissed at midnight and then like we're kind of making out throughout the rest of the night, ended up going home together and sleeping together.

Speaker 1 What was that like? I mean, there's so many like, there's so like the car ride, were you guys talking, making out? Like, was it just like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 The time between you left the house and got into,

Speaker 1 put the P and the V,

Speaker 1 were you guys not talking? Were you drunk? Like there were so, you know what I'm saying? saying there were so many moments

Speaker 7 you were drunk okay all right you were drunk and we were talking about it and but and we even like had a conversation while we were um like kind of in between like making out and partying and whatnot was like is this a good idea i don't know this might not be a good idea we probably shouldn't do this more than once if who's not going to go somewhere who was saying that so it was kind of like both of us saying like is this a good idea i don't know but then i specifically made the point.

Speaker 7 I was like, I can't do this. Like, we can't just like start having casual sex.
Otherwise, I'm going to, I'm going to get feelings. So like, we can't do this more than once.

Speaker 1 You said we can't do this more than once.

Speaker 7 I mean, it kind of already felt like it was like going to happen that night.

Speaker 1 So I sort of was like, well, it's just a weird boundary to set. Be like, you can fuck me once.

Speaker 1 You know, like, I'm just saying, as a guy, all I'm hearing is, do I get to have sex with you tonight?

Speaker 7 Or not yes or no you know what i'm saying like the whole like he's like i don't i don't know like that's tomorrow i don't know like more than once commitment i don't know are we having sex tonight you know it's just like yeah it's kind of a hilarious problem so it might have been but that was what ended up happening so where are we now where are we now yeah a couple days after um we were hanging out like normal and um just like having a normal conversation and he mentioned and started kind of like talking about his

Speaker 7 ex

Speaker 7 and kind of like talking to me about his ex, which I thought was really odd.

Speaker 1 Like he might still have feelings for her.

Speaker 7 He claims not, but the way that he was reacting was didn't seem like it. He was like worried about one of his other friends being interested in hooking up with his ex.

Speaker 7 And so he was talking to me about that situation.

Speaker 1 Why? Okay. That's weird.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 And so I didn't like that. And I, but I just kind of like brushed it off.
I just was like, I gave him some advice on like what I thought he should do about it.

Speaker 7 And then we, we kind of just like moved on to different conversation. And then at the end of that, I was like, I need to say something.
And so as we were kind of leaving, I was like,

Speaker 7 I don't know. I think that there might be something worth exploring here.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 he essentially was like,

Speaker 7 I don't know. I don't want to get your hopes up, but I don't, I just don't know.

Speaker 1 And I was like, all right, well, I'm not going to push it any further than that but like I honestly do believe that there's like something that could be really good there I think you only got one option which is you have to decide you have to commit to this decision so if you really think there is something there with this guy you have to commit to that mindset and if you're gonna commit to that mindset that means you have to stop being homies and friends and platonic buddies and you have to make him want you and miss you and realize because like you know what i'm saying this was all very predictable.

Speaker 1 And by predictable, I mean, like, up to this point, right?

Speaker 1 Like, the fact that he was about to have sex with you and you basically gave him a hall pass, you know, to like have some fun sex on New Year's Eve.

Speaker 1 And like, the way you sold it to him is like, we can do this once. And if we do this once, there will not, you know, it won't get weird.
There'll be no feelings.

Speaker 1 He did this whole like, are you sure we should do this?

Speaker 1 Was like, you know, if a guy's saying that, sort of him being obsessed with you and in love with you, which maybe is deep down, but right now he just thinks you're his friend.

Speaker 1 He's just saying that because he's just like, he wants to have sex with you and not have you call him an asshole afterwards.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, now that you were like, hey, I think there's something there, you know, you gave him something for free. And how was the sex, by the way?

Speaker 7 It was really fun.

Speaker 1 Awesome.

Speaker 7 Love that for me. It was really fun.
Yeah. And that was like basically what I said to him when we, when I was like, I don't know, I think that there might be something worth exploring here.

Speaker 7 I said, like, the other night was really fun. And he also was like, yeah, it was, it was really fun.

Speaker 7 I was like, it's kind of a shame to like never do that again to like not

Speaker 7 happen.

Speaker 1 What do you say?

Speaker 7 That was kind of when he was like, well, I don't know. I just like, I'm not sure.
I don't want to like get your hopes up, whatever, which feels really like a condescending thing to say to me.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Oh my God.
That was like the worst thing he could have said to you.

Speaker 7 Worst possible thing.

Speaker 1 That was like

Speaker 7 out of the car and I was like, all right, I'll see you later.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that shouldn't annoy you. You should be mad.
Do you have the right to be mad about that? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, you have to commit and you have to you know and so like yeah his the reason why it's predictable is because he got to have sex with you and i don't know just as a guy there is something about like if a guy wants to have sex with a woman uh so he obviously i wanted to have sex with you because he did there's always a like what is that going to be like you know that first time you know and now he knows and now he has that opportunity and so like that's that's fine i'm not saying you did anything wrong but now you're pitching him like responsibility and expectations and rules so to speak.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, ultimately, that's what, and that's kind of what he's here. And, like, I don't think he's even like conscious, like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Subconsciously, he's like, all right, she's in my life all the time. I see her multiple days a week.
She's my friend. I mean, I'm so comfortable on her.
I mean, she's my friend.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, I could ask her advice. I asked about this.
If I want to have lunch with her, she's definitely a phone call away. Now we had sex.
Like, I know what that's like with her.

Speaker 1 And so his subconscious brain just doesn't understand why he needs to like do anything different. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, because different almost is like, it's like his man brain is thinking in terms of like, what is he going to have to give up to have this? Yeah. What, what more is he going to have to do?

Speaker 7 So then if I commit to it, because like I do genuinely think if we like tried it out, it would work.

Speaker 7 So then how do I

Speaker 7 make him come to his senses about it?

Speaker 1 We have a couple options.

Speaker 1 In a perfect world, and I don't know how you do this, but in a perfect world, you're really confident in your sex and you're confident that he really likes the sex that you give him.

Speaker 1 And in a perfect world, there's a couple more times where you guys

Speaker 1 give in and you guys have some sex.

Speaker 7 Okay. Right.

Speaker 7 Not the answer I was expecting.

Speaker 1 Well, you've already had the sex, you know?

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, listen.

Speaker 7 I am confident in it. It was good.
It was very good.

Speaker 1 That's great. Because he needs to want to have sex with you again.
That really helps. And Sancho, if you had a good time, he'll want to have sex with you again.
So you could have sex again.

Speaker 1 You definitely don't have to, but what I want to get him is emotionally really invest in this. A, I want him to start enjoying having sex with you, which hopefully he does already.

Speaker 1 The having more sex part is, isn't that important, but eventually you need to just like cut it off. I only might say that because it might be a little bit abrupt now.

Speaker 1 I almost like, in a way, I don't know if you can handle it, but like, it's some Jedi shit. Like,

Speaker 1 for a period of time, I almost want you to like and you would never have guessed I would have said this because I'm really thinking this out loud you almost have to like kind of like navigate into a situationship

Speaker 7 okay

Speaker 1 and then you have to have the strength and the guts to like shut that shit down yeah you kind of do what like Natalie now famously did with me that we always talk about where it's just like for a while yeah it was kind of casual as whatever I was just like you know but I just was like she kept showing up and every time she was there I was like I just fucking miss this chick and I miss this you know it was just like and finally when she was like fuck you I'm gone I was like I'm obsessed with you and I need you and in my in my life and I miss you and I don't and I haven't felt I haven't missed someone like this and I don't know how long you know but really I mean you are to be all jokes aside you already have the rapport you've already had sex he is your friend you know he's been in your life for a long time it should feel abrupt to him for you to you know change things part of the reason why you have more sex and turn it into a situationship is because if you abruptly end things now he might get a little mad at you and in a weird way he might feel justified for being mad at you because like technically you did give him this super weird boundary, which is like, you can fuck me one night and nothing will mean anything.

Speaker 1 But after that, it all counts.

Speaker 1 He's giving you a hard time. You say it like that.

Speaker 7 It sounds crazy, but it's.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, we've all done that shit. I'm laughing with you.

Speaker 1 We've all done that. But I think it's important for us to acknowledge the crazy shit we say in the moment.

Speaker 1 So like as we get older, we can be a little bit more honest with ourselves about the ways in which we lie to ourselves and to the people that we're developing these connections with, because you do.

Speaker 1 Eventually, you just kind of have to be real with yourself. You have to re-real with the people you're with and you have to, and you have to show them that you're serious about yourself.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's what it comes down to. Like, it wasn't like I was taking Natalie granted deliberately.
I mean, I certainly was.

Speaker 1 But like, yeah, I really thought I was being thoughtful and I thought I was being courteous. But at the end of the day, she finally was like, I'm, this is beneath me.

Speaker 1 And her action showed me that she was like tired of it. And I had to make a choice.

Speaker 1 So, for you, ultimately, if you don't want to be that gamey about it, because honestly, that's probably just of a mess, you know, super down to be gamey about it, honestly.

Speaker 7 Because, like, I don't know how else to do it besides, like, because like, I've already said where I stand and that I think that there's something worth exploring.

Speaker 7 And he said that he, you know, he was like kind of wishy, wishy-washy about it, which I basically just like kind of took as like a no, which to your point was probably because he's like well why would i change a like a good thing yeah so you're gonna have to figure out like what your comfort level of your current situation is and how dependent he is on you to a certain extent you know like how much are you in his life right now um i mean i probably see him two or three times a week i would say like we're each other's usual first call on like weekend nights if we want to do something or like if we're planning something, if we want people to join, like we're usually each other's first call.

Speaker 7 Like, I feel like I'm very much a part, like a huge part of his life.

Speaker 7 And like, he even like said that, like, when we were drunk that night, he's like, I don't, like, I wouldn't be able to like lose you. And so, like, don't want to like mess this up.

Speaker 7 Hence, why, like, should we even do this?

Speaker 1 There's a strong chance that, like, yeah, he could fall for you for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 7 But he has to like let himself go there and he's not doing.

Speaker 1 He has to let himself go there.

Speaker 1 I mean, if I'm keeping it super real with you and, you know, you're a beautiful person, you know, like it just comes down to like, how much did he really like having sex with you?

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 7 Well, I got the impression that he liked it a lot.

Speaker 1 So, yeah. And I just think that if he really liked it a lot, then I'm guessing he's going to want to do it again.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 And so just have to like let that kind of situation actually play out. And yeah.

Speaker 1 Right now, I'd, I would just be chill. I wouldn't bring it up again.
Whatever you do, don't be passive-aggressive.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 that is the worst i don't think any guy likes that ever you know just be just be chill just keep being friends just be friends for now but like on your weekend you go out you know hopefully you guys get drunk and have sex again that's my worst my birthday this weekend so

Speaker 1 interesting interesting

Speaker 1 only because like i could see him getting in in his head about having sex with you on your birthday

Speaker 7 is he are do you already have plans to hang out on your birthday yeah okay But it's not, it's not a, it's like, it's going skiing for the day.

Speaker 7 So it's not like a getting, going out and getting drunk at night kind of thing. There's not a direct path to sex.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Would it be weird for you to tell him to take you to dinner?

Speaker 7 Uh, probably. Yeah.
You mean like for my birthday?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 I mean, like, I could see a situation where we just end up going to dinner, but like for me to tell him to take me to dinner,

Speaker 7 that would be a little odd.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I don't know.
Go have fun on your birthday.

Speaker 1 be open to having sex with him again i guess okay that is so not the answer i was expecting but well i i definitely say i definitely say that with a huge like caveat or like a great assault so to speak because you are way more at risk of being emotionally up than he is just yeah generally speaking yeah well to throw a little bit of a curveball into the situation, he is potentially going to have to get back surgery soon.

Speaker 7 And he, if he does do that, he's going to move back home, which is across the country

Speaker 7 for at least a period of time. And so I'm, I don't know if you think that that is influencing his hesitancy or his thought process.

Speaker 1 Probably not. No.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 Probably not.

Speaker 7 Cause he's also like on a lot of like pain meds and stuff that he's not in a great physical spot, but generally, I mean, that's, this is a huge generalization, but it's probably not the reason.

Speaker 1 Okay. I just think honestly, most people, when they like someone and they want to date someone, they will think of a million excuses and reasons to make it work.

Speaker 7 Yeah. You know, exactly.
So they're not going to think of the things that aren't going to. So, all right.
So I just have to make him be obsessed with having sex with me

Speaker 1 and then tell him more.

Speaker 1 Kind of, but it's just to summarize, we are assuming this is a man that like you guys have this relationship with and it's been friends for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 You guys have avoided any kind of physical boundaries. And like the other night, you guys went past that and he said some things to you that felt normal, felt right.

Speaker 1 Things like, I don't know, like you're a big part of my life. Physically, you know, you guys seem like you're compatible.
He's not even your physical type.

Speaker 1 Do you assume, do you think you're his physical type?

Speaker 7 Generally, yeah. Okay.
I've never asked, but yeah.

Speaker 1 You've seen the women he dates.

Speaker 7 Yeah. I think generally.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, there seems to be like a match there.

Speaker 1 So I think a lot of men in his positions, yes, well, like, there's no real incentive for him to, cause he's so comfortable with the situation he has with you. He knows what it is.

Speaker 1 You know, he's got this emotional support system. Like, in a lot of ways, you are his girlfriend already.
You know what I'm saying? Like.

Speaker 1 You, you feel that emotional responsibility that often that a girl, like, like, you know, if this guy got a girlfriend tomorrow, I can promise you your relationship would change she would not be okay with your guys' dynamic regardless of the sex would that would that be fair to say that like chances are you guys were a little bit too close yeah i will say like so he his most recent ex he dated like i don't know four months ago and it wasn't overly serious but it we didn't change our dynamic very much and so but i don't think i think that was more because he didn't like her very much yeah

Speaker 1 yeah i'm talking about like someone who's like hey i might marry this guy and she like tries to like merge their lives. I'm guessing you're not.

Speaker 7 Hopefully now that we've hooked up, I think that it would be okay with, yes.

Speaker 1 But yeah, so you're playing this role for him, right? And so it's just about trying to almost like change his brain psychology a little bit, right?

Speaker 1 To do that, you have to withhold some of the things that you're giving him, right? So the more sex part, it's mostly a joke.

Speaker 1 I'm just more like, it's more like you could probably have sex with him a few more times and it won't change anything is my guess and then maybe you know he becomes more comfortable and he really likes having sex with you I don't know you almost have to try to like slow play a relationship with him and that doesn't make him feel like you're adding a lot of pressure or responsibility and then out of nowhere you change it

Speaker 1 out of nowhere you're like you know what what are we doing here this is crazy you know like

Speaker 1 And like, if the next time you have sex, you don't say, like, if you were to hook up over your birthday, you don't say anything.

Speaker 1 okay you know let it happen you just let it happen you try to do the thing that i i tell no one to do you know what i'm saying but you're only doing it because you you're you're playing chess here you're not playing checkers you're thinking two steps ahead yeah

Speaker 1 and so but but keep in mind this comes with a huge risk that the risk is we could be wrong about him He goes and gets his back surgery. He never comes around.

Speaker 1 And you've fallen maddenly in love with this guy and you never get what you want. That is definitely possible.
So I just want to say that and acknowledge that like what I'm telling you.

Speaker 7 I mean, that's already the situation I'm in. So like it's not very different.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, it could be more.
It will be like, it will be more. I mean, it will be more, right? You're not, you know, this is.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So just, I want you to just acknowledge that and just be mindful of that. That like, have, have your fun, play your games, but like, there are consequences.

Speaker 1 You know, you have to be, you know, headstrong here and mindful. You, you really have to be honest with yourself while doing this.

Speaker 1 And at any point where you're like, this is too much for me, then you have, you can't, you know what I'm saying? Because a lot of it has to do with the energy you bring around him.

Speaker 1 And if your energy changes, he'll notice it.

Speaker 1 You know, if you start acting upset with his reactions, you know, that's another thing that you, another thing you have to be mindful of that, you know, I think will catch you off guard. Right.

Speaker 1 Up until this point before, I'm guessing this guy could have brought up past girlfriends, could have said something, and if either gave you the ick or you found it to be slightly annoying, you'd either just ignore it or just like, whatever.

Speaker 1 I don't know. You just, it's a guy.
Yeah. Now when he says that shit, you're going to analyze it.
Some of it you're going to take personally. The whole like, you know, I don't want to let you down.

Speaker 1 You do have the right to be mad. But like, what, you know what I'm saying? Like it's shit like that.
You're going to notice more now that you like him.

Speaker 1 And that you, you know, you're just going to notice things he does more and you're going to have more of opinion opinion about it and the more you share or act that you know and and and the more you change the dynamic that way that's what you don't want you know save that for once he is your boyfriend then you can be the girlfriend who like nags him and gets on his case and does you know whatever a loving partner does but you know you get what i'm saying though right like yeah you know you don't want to be like well why'd you say that why'd you you know why'd you do that like or you kind of give him a cold shoulder and give him being passive aggressive and ignore him because he said something that annoyed you and it's just like you don't want to do that you have have, you have to be able to be the chill, cool friend that you have been to this guy.

Speaker 1 And that is more important than anything else. More important than the sex.

Speaker 7 Yeah. Be the chill, cool friend, still continue to hang out like we always have.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, honestly, if you, if you want to like go from joking to sound advice, whether it's sex or anything else, you're finding moments where you connect with this guy that doesn't make it feel like it's getting weird for him.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 And you want to just find different ways that you guys can connect, whether it's sex or hanging out or spending quality time together, being there for him in a way that like,

Speaker 1 and, and I want him to get real comfortable and really used to it. And then I want you to pull it out of the rug and just, and just say, like, I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 1 And he's going to, and, and then when you do that, he's going to say no, most likely, almost certainly. He's going to tell you, like, oh, I can't, I can't do this.

Speaker 1 Why are we doing, why I got to ruin it? That's a good thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you can either call back and I can update you or you can like read my book.

Speaker 1 But when you do that, then you really need to be chill and you just just say hey listen i this is how i feel and i know we could be great and if you don't feel that way i understand but we can't keep doing this and i'm i'm you can't call me anymore yeah and you just remain calm as fuck and you and then you have to enforce that boundary and you have to not take his calls and you have to start going on dates with other men And also, while you do this, make sure you're dating aggressively.

Speaker 7 Also, other dating.

Speaker 7 That was the other thing that I was talking to a friend about is like, do do I like try to have another guy come to my birthday?

Speaker 1 Or like, don't be,

Speaker 1 don't be, don't be like gamey like that, but just make sure you're dating and don't hide it. That's all.
That's all you have to do. Don't hide it.

Speaker 7 Just don't need to be in front of him. Just like, yeah, do not, no, don't.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's, there's a huge difference between not hiding it and then flaunting it because that'll just annoy him.
Okay.

Speaker 7 Yeah. All right.
That. makes a lot of sense.
So, and then it's just a matter of like, okay, like at what point do I flip that switch and say, like, listen, I can't.

Speaker 1 There's no real answer, honestly.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, honestly, you could do it now. I mean, you really could.
You, you have a rapport with this guy. He did say that you're a big part of my life.
I don't know if I could lose you, you know,

Speaker 1 but right now, and that's why I was kind of joking that I almost want you to get into a situationship because so much of a situationship is I've talked to all, you know, it's mostly women, but whether it's a guy or girl, it's the person who's on the hopeful part, as I say, of a situationship.

Speaker 1 They'll call up and be like, well, we do all these boyfriend and girlfriend things. Why don't they want to be my boyfriend or girlfriend? You know what I'm saying? And they,

Speaker 1 I want you to do, I want you to start doing all those boyfriend and girlfriend things with this guy and connect with him in these ways. And it's like, it's just about building that rapport.

Speaker 1 Because right now, it sounds like up until New Year's Eve, you really were just friends. You weren't doing a lot of boyfriend, girlfriend things.

Speaker 1 I want you to do slightly more boyfriend and girlfriend things, you know?

Speaker 7 Slightly more. Okay.

Speaker 7 So it's like, yeah like we would go we would do things one-on-one a lot we would like have how often do you get lunch or dinner i don't know we probably like once a week okay yeah keep doing that but it was always like casual you know like it was never like yeah that's fine oh trust me people in situationships it's always casual

Speaker 1 It's just about quality time. It's just about you two are spending a lot of time together.
You know what I'm saying? I want him to take you for granted in a way.

Speaker 1 I want him to enjoy all this time he has with you, whatever it is, maybe it's sex, maybe it's dinner, whatever. And I want him to like take it for granted to a certain and have him not realize it.

Speaker 1 And then when you are like, I can't do this anymore, he has to realize he's been taking it for granted in a way.

Speaker 7 Okay. And then when I say that, like, like how Natalie said it, like, basically, I think we could be great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, literally. That was literally what she said.
She's like, I really think she, I mean, it was like the third time she brought it up and she was like, I just think we could be really great.

Speaker 1 And I really want, I want us to do this. But yeah, she was, I mean, I'll still

Speaker 1 remember exactly where we were. And she was just very calm and a very, she was chill as fuck and very matter of fact.
And then I said no. And she said, okay, take me to the airport.

Speaker 1 I mean, she was on her way to the airport anyways, but she didn't grovel. She didn't beg.
She didn't cry. She didn't say, why not? She didn't try to convince me.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 She went home and planned a date with a surgeon.

Speaker 7 That's where I feel like I'm, I've started a good foundation for that that because like the other day I did say like, I don't know, I think there's something here.

Speaker 7 And then I was, when he was like, oh, I don't know, I just was like, all right, well, I'm, see you later. Like, I just like left because it was like time to leave.
Like we were, I was already leaving.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think I need, you need to go on another date real fast with another guy.

Speaker 7 With another guy. All right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 I have one in.

Speaker 1 on queue so we can do that but and don't hide it like what are you doing this weekend oh i have a date date. Great.
And you're just kind of casual about it.

Speaker 1 Because, you know, when, when, because now when you say to him, oh, I think there's been something great here. And he says, oh, well, like, I don't want to let you down.

Speaker 1 He's immediately in a position of power. Right.
And power can shift so quickly. The moment that he finds out you're on a date, and especially after he had sex with you, he's going to feel something.

Speaker 1 What? I don't know. He will feel something.

Speaker 1 And the more you're just kind of like, yeah, I don't know, I'm on a date. And it's almost, and you act like you forgot you brought it up to him that you could be something special.

Speaker 1 He loses that power. And even if it's just about the power, that will make him feel a certain way.

Speaker 1 Now, you have to be careful with that because you don't want him to like you just because he wants to know he can. But it's such a fine line.

Speaker 1 And when it comes to this type of stuff in dating, it's like we're all these, we're egomaniacs. We all want to be pursued.

Speaker 1 We want someone who like feels lucky to have us, but at the same time, we don't want to chase. You know, it's like, well,

Speaker 7 you know, exactly. It's like, I don't want to be in a position where I feel like I'm having to convince somebody to be with me.

Speaker 7 But at the same time, like when like, I feel pretty confident about this, like we've been friends for seven years.

Speaker 7 We now realize that like we also have good sexual chemistry. Like

Speaker 7 we like, I don't want to do anything different than we've been doing besides just add in more sex.

Speaker 1 I think you should just, when you're in his presence, you are. You are confident, you are independent, you are self-assured, you have a million exciting things going on.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, that's generally the energy without trying to like pitch them and try to sell it. But that's more of a state of mind.
It's more of a mindset, you know?

Speaker 1 And again, so that when you ask what you're doing, you don't say nothing. You don't say, oh, I have nothing going on on board.
You're always selling, you know, that like you have a lot going on.

Speaker 1 And it's more of a mindset. And this is a guy who does know a lot about you anyway.

Speaker 1 So don't, you know, you don't want it to like read false, but like you go on dates, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, like normal people in your situation would

Speaker 1 be really sad about being rejected after he rejected you so to speak right but you're not going to do the normal thing you're just going to move on with your life go on a date and act like it well you were completely unbothered by that rejection that will be different he'll notice you know it's shit like that and when and if you can keep him on your toes that way he'll start he'll he'll start asking himself what the fuck am i doing you know That's what I'm hoping.

Speaker 7 That's what I'm hoping.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 if you stop dating a bunch of people and you grovel and beg for him he's just gonna be like yeah i'm i'm good you know like

Speaker 1 she's got nothing going for her no one else wants to date her she's begging me to date her you know like you know he's not gonna actually say that but that's kind of how we think you know yeah yeah you gotta like create some demand yeah so go create some demand okay um and then yeah when do you do it i don't know it's a gut feeling before his back surgery Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 7 We'll see how that plays out.

Speaker 1 I would say less than two months.

Speaker 7 Less than two months. All all right that at least gives me like some sort of a guideline because i've also like

Speaker 7 had

Speaker 1 guy friends that i've slept with for like over two years so i don't want to get into that situation no no no no this is like yeah i mean again i'm mostly joking about the sex part and this is really about you not responding the way he's expecting you to respond after this and then continue to hang out with him trying to make connections with him and then showing him that you haven't put yourself on hold because he hasn't asked you to.

Speaker 1 And then keep making these connections with him, having that quality time with him. He gets more used to that quality time and then eventually you cut him off.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 7 I can definitely do that.

Speaker 1 You have a lot going for you. It'll work itself out one way or the other.

Speaker 1 But your peace of mind is knowing that you can't be friends with this guy. You never really could be.
This was meant to happen.

Speaker 1 And by meant, I mean like you and Neville, you guys were going to have sex.

Speaker 1 And the fact that you told a story as if like you knew it was a sure thing, which honestly doesn't make much sense, but I'm just going to take your word for it.

Speaker 1 So clearly, I'm just saying, like, there was a natural level of confidence and chemistry that you guys had, that you felt a level of, you, you know, you knew, you knew.

Speaker 1 So there's clearly something there. Was this helpful?

Speaker 7 It really is. Yeah.
It's not what I was expecting you to say. I thought you were going to immediately tell me that I need to like stop being friends with him and just cut him out.
But

Speaker 1 I want to emphasize that you you could do that now. And

Speaker 1 you know this guy in this relationship better than I do. But basing off what you're telling me, I'm sensing some reluctance on his part.

Speaker 1 And I'm sensing he needs to be a little bit more emotionally invested in you than he is. Yeah.
It does seem like there's a shot here. We'll see.

Speaker 7 Okay. I think that's that's good to hear.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, keep us posted.
I'm, I, I definitely will need an update.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 I will. All right.
Take care.

Speaker 7 All right. Thanks, Nick.
All right. Bye-bye.

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Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 7 Good. How are you? Good.
What's your name? My name's Erica and I'm 28 years old.

Speaker 1 How can I help Erica?

Speaker 7 I am wondering if I'm physically attracted to my own boyfriend.

Speaker 1 Okay. How can I help you figure that out whether you are or not? Or yeah, is that what you're trying to figure out?

Speaker 7 That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying, I guess, to figure out if it's...
me and him or if it's just me in general, I guess you would say.

Speaker 1 Okay, elaborate.

Speaker 7 So basically, I, when it comes to physical intimacy or just like little things, just like touching here and there with him, I really want nothing to do with it.

Speaker 7 And if you would have asked me about two years ago, I would have said, absolutely, my love language is physical touch. That's, I love the lovey-dovey stuff.

Speaker 7 I love him kissing on my cheeks and then coming up behind me and grabbing me. Now I would say I am like really resistant to it.

Speaker 1 Okay. How long have you been dating this guy for?

Speaker 7 On and off for about four years, but I just moved in him almost a year now.

Speaker 1 When is this repulsiveness to him touching you started?

Speaker 7 I would say almost whenever I started moving in with him. Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, and why do you think that is? Like,

Speaker 7 I'm not really sure because he's like, he doesn't do anything wrong. And that's why I'm so stuck because he truly is a like a perfect guy to me.
I just don't like it.

Speaker 1 Like, I know you don't like the word ick, but like whenever he comes up and touches me and stuff, I'm like, oh, I don't want like, and I don't know if it's just me in general like if I would be like that with anybody else or if it's just with him if something about him and me personally just isn't like clicking there on the intimacy part are you fantasizing about other men are you checking other men out like no okay no are you just you know in a season of not being like sexual sexual like maybe you're just kind of maybe the ick isn't coming from you know i don't know you know what i'm saying like you're just what you're describing you've been dating this guy for almost four years or you've known him for for four years, and in the first couple years, everything's good, right?

Speaker 1 Like, hooking up, liking, yeah, it was good.

Speaker 7 I wouldn't say, like, I wanted to jump his bones kind of compared to my other relationships, but things were like okay still.

Speaker 1 Wait, do you find him attractive?

Speaker 7 Yes,

Speaker 7 okay.

Speaker 7 I mean, he's a good-looking guy, okay, sure.

Speaker 1 All right, so it's not like you decided, like, yeah, he's, he's a, he's a good-looking guy. He's, he may not be, yeah, no, he's not the hottest guy in the world.

Speaker 7 No, but like I'm still attracted to him, I guess you would say. Otherwise, I probably necessarily wouldn't be dating him.
Sure.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, where do you think this is coming from?

Speaker 7 I have no idea. Like, that's why I don't know if it's like just maybe me and my hormones or if that's like something people do go through.
Like, if that's normal, if it's just like.

Speaker 7 You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if. Yeah, I mean, I think I hate it because every time he like wants to do something in my head now, that's all I think about is I don't want to do it.

Speaker 7 So it also like takes away from the fact like it stops me too from even like enjoying things whenever we do it because it's so in my head.

Speaker 1 Obviously, it's hard for me to give you like a opinion, even as a man. I think it's a little different.

Speaker 7 Like, is there something that I because I never want him. So now that like I feel this way, though, I don't want him to like notice that I feel that way.

Speaker 7 Just because like, I mean, if someone said that to me, it's like a shot in the heart. You know what I mean? So I don't want it to ever come across to him or him to like get

Speaker 7 the feeling from it.

Speaker 1 So like, you know, I just want to ask you some kind of personal questions at your comfort level.

Speaker 1 When you were in other relationships or when you were in this guy or having a more physical activity, what did you do either with him or, you know, with yourself to like get you in the mood, so to speak?

Speaker 7 I would say I like whenever a guy has been like just really in charge, just like goes for it, initiates. goes for it isn't takes charge of everything.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what is this guy doing?

Speaker 7 Not really that, but I've expressed to him before that, like, because sometimes he'll do it and I'll be like, oh, I really like that to try to like get him to start doing it more.

Speaker 7 And we don't really do like any foreplay either. It's just like we're laying down and then he just wants to start doing it.

Speaker 1 Which is kind of like, you know, lame.

Speaker 1 But I said,

Speaker 7 there's a time and place for that. Sure, sure, sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Listen, like, you know, and I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to claim like I'm some Casa Nova, but like just recognizing that like, you know, yeah, every couple does that from time to time.

Speaker 1 You get tired, you get lazy, whatever. Every man gets lazy, you know, from time to time.
But as a couple, you have to find your way out of the ruts, so to speak.

Speaker 1 But, like, this is not some guy you've been dating for a month or whatever. You've had a whole history with this guy.

Speaker 1 It does sound like it's more of a you thing that you're working through internally. I've no, I know nothing about hormones and I know nothing about stuff like that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I mean, I think, I think even guys, I mean, there have been times in long-term relationships where I just like, I was the one pulling away from sex more than my partner was for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 Why? Yeah. And I think you guys have to find your way back together in a way.
You know, it sounds like you guys aren't communicating at all about intimacy that much. Is that accurate? Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 7 I would say we don't really, the only time we ever really talk about it is like if I, if he does something that I like, I do try to express that to him or just kind of say like, hey, I liked whenever you did that.

Speaker 7 Like, that's great.

Speaker 1 Just to

Speaker 7 hopefully he'll start doing that more. Um,

Speaker 7 but that's really only what we have talked about. We don't like you know, degree for talk, sure.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, on some level, if you're gonna date someone for like four years and continue to want to date them, and shit gets mundane, and more than shit getting mundane, it's like it's just very easy to get lazy or setting your ways or disconnected or whatever.

Speaker 1 You're gonna have to figure out some version where you guys maybe communicate a little bit more about intimacy. Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, like, I don't know how strong your ick is.

Speaker 1 Like, if you were to, it got strong,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 So, like, the idea of like, let's say he created a romantic evening, taking charge of the situation, lit some candles.

Speaker 1 I don't fucking know, told you to like lie in the bed, he wanted to give you a massage, and that massage was, you know, like, yeah, like you guys were like, God, I'm not wearing clothes and shit.

Speaker 1 Like, would that give you the ick? Or like, would you be like, ew, that's kind of like, I don't really want to do that. You get a free massage on it.

Speaker 7 Like, right now, I would say, yes, it does give me the ick. Okay.
And I can't figure out if it's like

Speaker 7 just

Speaker 7 me in general. And that's how I would feel if I was with anybody.
Like that's what I'm kind of having difficulties with. Only because I wasn't like that before.

Speaker 7 I would be like, hell yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 6 But now I'm like, oh.

Speaker 7 I mean, like, I don't want anything to do with that.

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm not being much help here, but like, have you seen a doctor?

Speaker 1 The little bit I know about women's bodies is that like, you know, hormones can change and hormones can affect your sex drive and there can be seasons and periods.

Speaker 1 But like, maybe it's a a question for a doctor and ask if, could this be a physical thing as opposed to a mental thing? Cause honestly, that's what sounds like you're trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 You don't even know if like,

Speaker 1 you don't even know if like maybe your body's experiencing some changes and, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 7 Right. Or if it's just in my head type thing now.

Speaker 1 Or if it's in your head, a little bit of both. Feel free not to answer this question.
You tell me to fuck off, but like, are you in birth control?

Speaker 7 Yeah, I have an IUD.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 You know, and I don't know how I have no, I know nothing about that other than the fact that maybe there's something with birth control that like, I don't know, could be impacting a mood or something.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's worth a call to your doctor.
You may not get any answers. Narrow it down.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 But like, you probably get more answers from them than you'll get from me about this topic.

Speaker 7 So I guess then

Speaker 7 with that, though, so if I, you know, go to the doctor, um, but in the meantime, to at least like get it out of my head. So I'm literally not like thinking this stuff during.

Speaker 7 it like how is there anything that you can tell me to like get it out of my head for the time being

Speaker 7 Or if I should just like, I don't know. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 No, I hear you.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I have a good answer, you know? Like, so you're basically saying when you're like, when you guys are having sex, you reluctantly be like, all right, let's, let's do the thing.

Speaker 7 It sounds so bad, yeah.

Speaker 1 Out of like obligation as a, as a girlfriend or whatever. Like, what's going on in your head?

Speaker 7 I would say during it or like whenever he starts, you know, kissing me and I know it's going to lead to that.

Speaker 7 In my head, I'm thinking, oh, I want to just get this over with and i know that sounds like

Speaker 7 so messed up but that's what goes through my head well and is it because you don't feel like having sex right now or is it just like you want this guy to get off you it's kind of both it just depends like sometimes i'm like i don't want to do this right now because yeah i am tired but then other times i'm not like it's literally i don't i just don't want you to do it and you don't know if like a different guy might be i just think back to like before him kind of when him and i were on and off i wasn't like this so that's why a part of me thinks that like, maybe I'm just, you know, a little resistant towards him.

Speaker 7 And maybe we just don't have that like sexual chemistry.

Speaker 1 Have you ever had the sexual chemistry?

Speaker 7 Have him and I. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And what's changed? Has he changed like physically?

Speaker 7 No. If anything, he's gotten, you know, better.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, yeah, just trying to narrow it down. It doesn't sound like

Speaker 1 very unscientific, unprofessional opinion. And if you can have chemistry with someone at any point, then you can recreate that chemistry, especially.
Bring it back, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, people can let themselves go, you know, and be like, hey, listen, I was, I had the hots from them, and they like kind of gave up on themselves.

Speaker 1 And five years later, they're unrecognizable. I don't know.
That's a reality. But like you're saying, if anything, he's invested more of himself.
He's taking better care of himself.

Speaker 1 And he's probably a little hotter than he was five years, you know, four years ago. So like, it doesn't sound like it's a straight up him thing.

Speaker 1 I don't doubt that it's been a combination of you're having having a hard time figuring out why you're feeling the way you're feeling. Your body's not responding the way you're used to it responding.

Speaker 1 You don't feel comfortable communicating this to your boyfriend, obviously, because you don't want to hurt his feelings and have it devastate him.

Speaker 1 And so you kind of just let him do whatever you let him do. And then I think almost that is allowing you to almost like attach your discomfort with it in general to like him giving you the ick.

Speaker 1 My best guess, based on what you're telling me, and I want to emphasize guess, is that, you know, because I I think this is like a chicken before the egg question you're asking yourself.

Speaker 1 Like you're asking yourself, is my body doing something where I have lack of interest in sex and therefore it's making me feel a certain way about my boyfriend?

Speaker 1 Or have I just lost interest in my boyfriend and that's why I feel the way I do? And it's less because of what my body's going through.

Speaker 1 Would that sound accurate, like the two like kind of questions you're juggling?

Speaker 7 Yes, definitely.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I think, and again, my best guess based on what you're telling me, an emphasis on guess, it makes more sense that your body is going through something. I don't know.
Maybe it's just normal.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's seasonal. Maybe it's something you're eating.
Maybe it's something in the water. I don't know.

Speaker 1 It makes a lot of sense that like, if all of a sudden you like, you know, you were just less in the mood, less in the mood, but you didn't really know what was going on.

Speaker 1 You didn't really feel comfortable communicating that with your boyfriend because you didn't want to hurt his feelings.

Speaker 1 And so as a result, you just kind of let him do, you know, whatever it is he wants to do and like he gets in the mood from time to time.

Speaker 1 And so like that is like making you feel a certain way about him because like now you've attached, you know, because he is your partner, When you're not in the mood and you don't want to do anything and he's making moves on you, anyone would give you the ick in that moment, you know, and you don't feel that annoyance whenever it's already in my head.

Speaker 1 So it's not, it's less about him and more that he's annoying you because, like, you don't know how to communicate how you're feeling about that stuff.

Speaker 7 That makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a tough situation to be in, but I do, if, and again, I'm just guessing.

Speaker 1 So, like, maybe you for before you go rogue, like, you know, have a conversation with your doctor, get the information to ask, you know, ask a message.

Speaker 1 I kind of want to go to him before I figure out if it's actually something in my body that's causing it before i just go up and totally but if it but if it is listen like he should like i don't know any adult man should be able to like recognize that like you know sometimes like shit happens and like you know yeah is it easy to like question like is it me yeah yada yada but like it's a lot easier you're not doing anything on the side you know like there's some things that might make him insecure but like you know you'll have to work through that and communicate that but if it came to that you could say i've just been less in the mood lately and it's definitely not you Or, you know, I don't know if you can say that, but I'm just saying you're going to have to figure out some way to communicate with him because you not communicating with him how you're feeling is causing you to get the ick from your boyfriend because he's just like doing what he's always done and you're not communicating how you're feeling.

Speaker 1 So you're letting him do it. And it's like getting annoying.

Speaker 7 Yeah. No, I would agree with that.

Speaker 1 That's my best guess. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, only you can know if you're still attracted to your boyfriend or not.

Speaker 1 And I think your confusion, I'm, I'm guessing, is coming from the fact that you decided to date this guy for a lot of reasons. It sounds like he's a really good guy and a good boyfriend.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of things you like about him and the relationship. And like, you're pretty attracted to him.

Speaker 1 But like, I don't know, like, you decided not to date the hottest guy in the room, which is probably a smart choice.

Speaker 1 And now that you're feeling this way, you're getting in your head and questioning your attraction to your boyfriend. It's my best guess.
Okay.

Speaker 7 No, that makes sense because that is exactly what I'm thinking. I'm I'm just confused.

Speaker 1 I'm definitely curious.

Speaker 7 It just stays in my head.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I often don't like pulling our audience when it comes to their opinion about this stuff. I'd be curious if there's ladies out there listening to this who relate to you.

Speaker 7 That's what I was wondering because I was like, I wonder if this is something, you know, normal that women go through or if it's, you know, yeah, I'd be curious too.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And what do you, have you talked to any of your girlfriends about this?

Speaker 7 A few of them and they, their reasoning just is that, you know, like they're just tired and stuff like that. It's not that they're like, they're just tired at night or they don't want to type thing.

Speaker 7 Or like if their boyfriend pissed them off that day, they're like, I don't want to do anything like that.

Speaker 1 Sure. I mean, listen, it sounds like your sex drive is non-existent at the moment or just not there.
You know, not, not to get like.

Speaker 7 Now talking about it does sound like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's not, you're not doing anything on your own, correct? Correct.
All right.

Speaker 1 So like you're not trying to, you're not trying to fulfill your sexual needs outside of your relationship, whether that's with yourself, porn, or just flirting with other men or, you know, God forbid, cheating on your boyfriend, you just don't feel like doing it, period.

Speaker 1 And your boyfriend doesn't know. And so now that he's doing this, you feel obligated and it's making you like annoyed with him.
And that makes a lot of sense. That's,

Speaker 7 you know, that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's ways to improve your sex drive. Talk to your doctor, get some information,

Speaker 1 start there.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, like maybe find ways to improve your sex drive.

Speaker 1 I don't know if there's things. Actually, we interviewed someone who made Women Viagra.
She's like one of the first billionaire women.

Speaker 7 Might be a thing. I might have to look it up.

Speaker 1 Cindy Eckhart, look her up. Not advocating for anything she's selling or doing.
I mean, I know her a little bit.

Speaker 1 She seems legit, but I have no idea what it does and what women's Viagra means, but I think maybe that's something you could do.

Speaker 1 Anyways, talk to your doctor and find out your options because it sounds like it's starting there. And then go from there.
Because I'm guessing, right, if you talk to your doctor, right?

Speaker 1 Or let's say you talk to maybe you met some women who are like, girl, like, totally, I know exactly what you're going through.

Speaker 1 I wondered the same things, but it's just your lack of sex drive. I bet if you were,

Speaker 1 I bet if you heard that from someone that like made you feel like you weren't crazy or gave you something to go on, you might be more like less nervous about like communicating this with your boyfriend, you know, because right now you're in your, you're in your head about it.

Speaker 1 And when he's like, well, is it me? You don't want to be like, I don't think so. You don't want to have like this look.

Speaker 7 I think if I had like yeah, another woman or someone like, you know, talk about it, I would feel more normal about it.

Speaker 7 And I want to be as my head and my mudge because I always think I'm like, I'm only 28. I'm not like going through pre-menopause and stuff.
I'm like, my sex drive shouldn't be low.

Speaker 7 So then I get in my head about that too.

Speaker 1 Listen, I think a million things can cause a low sex drive. Are you, you know, what's going on? You have stress in your life at all?

Speaker 7 Not really.

Speaker 7 I mean, everybody does, but not like

Speaker 1 people, you know? Yeah, it could be a million things and maybe it's an easy fix. Maybe it's a diet thing.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I definitely think there's a few calls you can make and a few doctor visits or whatever. At least get some information and just better understand.

Speaker 1 Because I think right now, like you're just going through something that is, you know, like you said, you're young.

Speaker 1 It's unexpected that you feel the way you do. It's a little confusing and you really have no answers.
So all you're doing is guessing right now and you're just getting in your head.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you calling in. It's a really interesting topic.
And I think one that I wouldn't be surprised if it does relate to a lot of people.

Speaker 1 But like, I'm a start, but like, look to other people who maybe can give you better information.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I will, it's a first step.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a first step.

Speaker 1 But at some point, you know, hopefully you get information that makes you better understand what's going on.

Speaker 1 And assuming it's not your boyfriend, hopefully that will make you confident to communicate, you know, just give him an update on what's going on in your life. And

Speaker 1 hopefully he's there for you and doesn't take it personally.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot better chance he won't, assuming you're like, yeah, like, I've just been feeling this way I went to my doctor they told me blah blah blah blah blah and like you know there's things I you know can do and we'll see what happens but I've just been kind of feeling this way and I would assume that if let's say Natalie was like hey just I've been feeling this way and I went to my doctor and blah blah blah blah blah any insecurities or like questions about is it me or what you know getting in my head about other things would be drastically drastically like helped by like hearing how like that she had information already you know and that she was she was kind of proactive if she came to me and she's like, yeah, listen, I'm just not in the mood lately.

Speaker 1 And that's all she said, yeah, my first thought would be like, well, what is it me? It's a tough situation, but I would start there and

Speaker 1 go from there.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. If you do get any information and any insight or you're able to solve this problem at all, even if you realize, yeah, it was my boyfriend, please let us know.
I would love an update.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm really hoping that you come back with like, yeah, I talked to my doctor and I learned this and I did this and things are better.

Speaker 7 That would be great. Hormones are just way off.

Speaker 1 sure, yeah.

Speaker 7 You know, like I hope that's the case, too.

Speaker 1 Despite you being young, I don't think you need to freak out, and I'm not a doctor, but there can be a lot of reasons why you may be feeling the way you're feeling that, like, don't need to stress you out, or, or there might be like a couple of things you can do to improve it to help.

Speaker 7 Okay, okay, okay, thank you guys. All right, thank you.

Speaker 1 Take care. Thanks for your call.

Speaker 7 Thanks as well.