E1044 Ask Nick - I Dumped My Perfect Boyfriend

Cyber Monday just got smarter with Pura. Get 30% off curated sets and upgrade your home with app-controlled fragrance that looks as good as it smells.

Choose from hundreds of premium scents and diffusers, mix and match your favorites, and set custom schedules right from your phone.

With smart control and premium design, Pura makes every space feel elevated. But hurry, these savings won't last long.
Shop Pura.com now. Your home deserves it, and this deal ends soon.

Looking for the perfect date night? Look no further than Die My Love from the studio that brought you the substance.

Die My Love is the visceral and uncompromising portrait of a woman engulfed by love and madness, played by none other than Jennifer Lawrence and her husband, Robert Pattinson.

Yeah, you heard me right for the first time together on screen. The two stars battle it out in extremely well-performed dramatic fashion.
You won't want to miss it.

Take your date to see a couple that will make you feel grateful that your only issue are what movie you're gonna see. Go see Die My Love.
Visit movie.com slash die my love.

That's M-U-B-I dot com slash die my love for showtime and tickets. Now play.

you know you don't have to let big wireless and your overpriced phone bill suck the joy out of the holidays this year because right now all of mint mobile's unlimited plans are 50 off you can get three six or 12 months of unlimited premium wireless for 15 bucks a month it's their best deal of the year and it makes it real easy for you to give your expensive wireless bill the scrooge treatment Before we switched to Mint Mobile, we were just like paying our cell phone bill, not paying attention.

We were on autopay. And then finally, I became aware of this amazing deal by Mint Mobile.
And I was like, what am I paying for wireless wireless service?

It's crazy what many of us are paying with some of those other wireless providers. But with Mint Mobile, you get...
Great coverage, great service on the largest 5G network for an unbeatable price.

You can bring your current phone and number over to Mint, no contracts and no nonsense. Stop way overpaying for wireless and make the switch to Mint Mobile today.

Turn your expensive wireless present into a huge wireless savings future by switching to Mint. Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at Mintmobile.com slash V-I-A-L-L.
That's mintmobile.com/slash VIALL.

Limited time offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $15 a month equivalent.
Taxes and fees extras.

Initial plan terms only greater than 35 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy.
Capable devices required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies.
See mintmobile.com.

How's it going? Good. My name is Jessica.
I'm 33. And am I too needy in my relationship? Why do you think you're too needy? How long? Well, let's tell me about your relationship first.
Okay.

We've been together for a little over two years. Okay.

We met on a dating app. How old is he? He is 31.
You're 33? Yes, I'm 33. Okay.
And we dated for probably about eight months before before we became official.

So, and then we do live together. When did that happen?

It happened last year in June. Why did it happen? We just talked about it and decided to move in.
We were also kind of long distance. We were about an hour-ish away from each other.

So just kind of made sense to do that. But you guys are both pretty like into the idea.
No,

no.

Okay. Me more so than him, but we.
You wanted it more than him? Or? I brought up the conversation okay um and we talked about it and

he was a little hesitant at first and then after a couple conversations he said like he was like yeah move in okay how much convincing did you have to do i don't know like i guess not like a crap ton but i definitely like was like hey this is why i think this is a good idea okay and then yeah so just like that i guess gotcha okay we'll tailor that for a sec for the time being but uh let's tell me more yeah we he me and him uh we get along really well we have a really good sense uh sense of humor together i just think that where we are kind of opposite is that he is extremely extroverted and i am like a 50 50 a little bit more on the introverted side i would say and he

just loves to go out He loves to be around his friends. He has a ton of hobbies, which, you know, is great.
And I love that about him.

But it also just kind of feels like he tries to cram everything in and do every single thing that he wants to do instead of, you know, kind of being like, well, maybe I don't have time for this because I need to do this.

Describe your average weekday with him and describe your average weekend.

Average weekday, we both work pretty long hours

and we both work a lot. So he goes to the gym after work every single day, Monday through Friday.

And so he sometimes doesn't like, I would say on average, he gets home by like seven. Okay.

And then on average, I probably get home by like 5.36.

The weekends? Yeah. Weekends, I actually have a second job.
And so a lot of the times I'm usually working six days a week. So either Sunday through Friday or Monday through Saturday.

And then he loves to golf. So a lot of times he's golfing.

um and especially if i'm working or if i do saturday and sunday off which sometimes does happen one of the days like he'll go golf, and then one of the days we'll hang out together. Okay.
Yeah.

So, and then sometimes he'll go out with his friends. And then when he goes out with his friends, how often are you included? Or do you want to be included?

I'm included, I would say like 70% of the time. I'm definitely included.

I don't, I'm just, I'm not a huge drinker. Okay.

It's not, I'm more, I'm more of a weed smoker.

And so, and he definitely loves, he's a social drinker. So, if his friends are drinking, he loves to drink.
And he has a lot of friend groups, I would say, like a lot of separate friend groups.

And he has a friend group where they're a little bit younger. They're like around

between the ages of 26 and 29.

And a lot, and some of them are single. And, you know, I do think some, well, one in particular, in my opinion, is a high-functioning alcoholic.
And he gets obliterated every single weekend.

And that's all he hits them up for is to go out and drink. Your and your boyfriend hits the friend up.
No, no, sorry. The friend hits, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's basically if we do go hang out with them, that is what we're doing. Period.
So, like, what is what prompted your email? Or

well, we, it's just a constant fight between us, like, where I'm like, hey, like, what are you fighting about?

Um, time

and priorities. Like we actually, we went to a three-day festival a couple weekends ago, and a ton of his friends were there, Tepper Friend groups.
Me and him planned to go together.

We didn't, we bought the tickets a very long time ago. There was no plan to go with anyone else.
It just kind of happened when he found out more and more people were going.

My sister also decided to go. So of course, like, I'm like, okay, yeah, I want to go see her too.
It's three days. And Friday was kind of a mess because we got there pretty late.

We were trying to find people the whole time. There was crappy cell service.
So, you know, it was just like, it was kind of like a, meh. But we had Saturday and Sunday.

Well, Saturday morning, he was like, hey, I just want you to know I'm going to find my friends. And that's who I'm hanging out with the entire time.

And I was like, oh, well, what about like he just told you? Like, yeah. In a way, like he knew, in it, knowing kind of it would upset you.
That's exactly how he said it.

And he said it in front of two of our friends. So like, I didn't really feel felt like I had an opportunity to talk about it.

And I just was like, well, what about like going to see my, like, hang out with my sister too? And he goes, well, it's really hard to find people. And I don't want to have a replay of Friday.

So when I find my friends, like, I don't want to separate from them. And I'm like, okay, well, what if like I want to go meet up with my sister?

He's like, well, you can go meet up with your sister and then I'll stay with my friends.

Has this been been kind of the norm of your relationship with him and how he handles these situations? Or have you noticed a shift? It's the norm.

There's times where he actually like, you know, will talk to me and we're fine. And then there's other times where I think,

I think he gets really stubborn. And I, I do think he has like, he was, I mean, he was single for probably five years before me and him.

So I think he has a very single mentality sometimes.

And he really, really loves his friends.

They're his family. He doesn't really have family.
So I think he's very attached to them. And they've experienced some pretty bad tragedy with their group.
They lost two friends very tragically.

And I think that really bonded them. True.
I mean, but like, what is that like one of the groups of friends?

Yeah. Yeah.
It's the main group. Okay.
And it's, and it's the ones where they drink,

like, they drink so much. Was it, was it, was, Was alcohol involved in the tragedy?

No, but drugs were. Okay.

Yeah, unfortunately.

You know, I don't, I'm, I'm 33. I don't want to hang out with people that puke in the middle of a crowd on the sidewalk because they got so drunk.
And yeah, no, I hear you.

What are your guys' relationship goals? Well, we actually just talked about that. I did ask him where he saw us in the next,

you know, three years. I told him that, you know, I don't want to just date.

You know, I do want to get married. I want

our relationship to progress in that way, which I've been vocal about like since the beginning.

And I just told him I don't want to be five years in and like just be boyfriend and girlfriend. Like that's just not my plan.
And why'd you say, and why'd you say a few years out?

Just we've been together for two years. So I kind of just.

And which he agreed with he said he also didn't like he also felt like that was a very reasonable timeline he said yeah i agree with you it's reasonable because

it's three i mean you know have you ever heard the term deadline spur action no i haven't okay well it's a negotiating term you know usually people will wait till the deadline to actually do anything So three years is long enough where it's he can, it's long enough where he can be like, that feels

like a long enough away where, yeah, three years sure you know when you say it to him like that it seems like long

fairly far away

and more importantly nothing needs to change today

when you say i'm a i'm like three years out from like this kind of artificial deadline you know

so it's easy for him to agree to okay it's like yeah for sure you know it's not like not much different than saying I want to get married in the next decade.

Yeah.

You know?

If you were to say something like, hey, listen, we've been dating for two months and like, you know, we live together and I recognize that was like kind of my idea.

But, you know, it doesn't change the fact that we are playing house and we are very much like act, you know, like, I just don't know what's supposed to change, like what more we're supposed to get to know about each other.

I'd like to focus on going forward, like, our relationship. And

if we're going to play house, you should kind of in a way start playing house like an engaged couple, like setting fair like expectations of each other, you know, and you should both mutually mutually want to meet those expectations.

And it would, I would honestly feel like, I don't know how you kind of reset expectations because you already told him three years, but like six months is more like that.

If you were to say, like, listen, the next year, I want this to move into something different and I want it to evolve. And, you know, then

he could be like, oh, okay, a year.

Because a year, he has to start planning. Maybe he has to start shopping for an engagement ring or at least budgeting for it or thinking about it or considering it or, or,

you know.

okay and then you could see how serious he is how do i even have that conversation well i don't know but listen yeah like a lot unfortunately like a lot a lot of the advice i have for you right now is like you know listen i would have done things differently if i were you i mean i've i've done the things that you've done you know there's the way that i think is the smartest way possible for everyone to eliminate complications and confusion.

I haven't always followed those steps, right? But it's important to know those steps so that if you have to adjust, you can, or just be aware of your situation, if that makes sense.

First thing when I ask, the reason why I asked, like,

was it both your idea to move in? And you said no, and who, you know, how much you have to convince him?

Like, I strongly believe that the only reason two people, like people should move in together is that they're, you know, married, engaged to be married, or they both like are mutually excited to do that thing.

Then there's not one person trying to convince the other person.

Maybe he's just as like excited. Hopefully he is enjoying living with you as much as you enjoy living with him, that he can't throw it in your face.

Is it like, well, I don't even want this, you know, like type of situation. He definitely said that he enjoys living with me.
Great. Like in our past conversation.
Great.

So that you have that going for you.

Yeah, because like, that's all I was, it can be used as like, you know, if someone just reluctantly agrees to it, you know, when people are like, oh, we saved money or whatever.

But that's not your situation. So love that for you.
But yeah, I mean, in general, at this stage of your life, you mentioned, hey, I'm 33.

You know, I don't know if you want to have kids or settle down or whatever. Do you really want to be 35 or 36 and then find out he's not the one?

No, I.

So why are you so willing to wait? I guess I'm just like afraid to push it. And like, because he, you know, he has some trauma and he has commitments issues where he's scary.

Yeah, and I hear that. But that's when you say it out loud, that's even more reason to address it now and not in in three years from now.
Yeah.

You know, you want to find out despite whatever trauma he's been through or whatever issues he has, he is a serious person and serious about you two.

And he is not just enjoying your company when it's convenient. It sounds to me like you're more than willing to like work with him, but like you want to be able to

rely on your partner. At times where you can say, hey, as your partner, as your person, as your wife, I need you to choose me in this moment.

I know you may want to do this other thing, but right now, I need you to step up for me.

And then he obviously has the right to do that with you, you know, and you, and, and you have the right to feel like you are the priority always.

Even if at times he wants to prioritize his friends, he still like wants to run that by you because like he always wants to be on the same page with you because like that's a partnership and you just have to see if he's a willing and b capable of having that type of relationship it does you no good to push those types of expectations off for a period of time because deep down you're afraid he can't meet it yeah and then springing on him two and a half years from now when you're like all right well i've waited long enough there's a new sheriff in town

And then that's because that's in the, that's when you're going to just feel like a nag to him. He's going to feel like what's changed, you know, and things like that.
And I feel like I nag sometimes.

I do. And it's frustrating.

I'm assuming you've expressed to him that you don't want to feel that way. Oh, yeah.
I

feel like I'm pretty good with communicating. I'm in therapy.
I've been in therapy.

I try really hard to express how I'm feeling.

Is your boyfriend ever puking or blacking out? No, no, no. He's he is not.
He's really good. Okay.
So that's one thing. I mean, I get it.

He's got friends who have their issues, but your primary concern needs to be your boyfriend, right?

And so as long as he is, as far as you know, being responsible, you know, maybe he has a fun night now and then and gets a little sauced. But for the most part, he's in control.

He might have friends who are not, but that's a them problem. That's not a you problem.

It just gets to a point where he feels like he needs to be the dad of the group and he needs to to take care of his friend.

Yeah, but like, that that's but it does you no good to let that bother you because, like, you know what I'm saying? What are you going to do about it? Like, that's a him problem.

If he comes to you and says, hey, you know, my friends are really dragging me down and I don't know what to do and blah, blah, blah.

And he's venting to you, then by all means, you know, have that conversation with him.

But right now, you're letting his friends and their choices annoy you and have it become a problem for the two of you. Yeah.

I think it just gets to a point where when we are out all together, he disappears. I have no idea where he went.
And that's a different conversation.

I mean, so

are you guys in couples therapy? No, I've tried.

He's not really

open to therapy right now.

Well, listen,

I guess my advice to you is, I think you have to be more intentional. I hate to use that word because it seems overused these days

about moving this relationship forward in a meaningful way so that you can get clarity on whether this guy really is your guy.

Doesn't mean you have to be a nag and up his ass every day, but I think you have you have the right to push him gently

as long as you, you know, and like the challenge you're going to have to have is, when is it fair for you to push the issue? And when is it something that's not your problem?

You know, like the friends thing. It's just like,

I'm not going to let this bother me because this really has nothing to do with us.

Him disappearing on you and not checking in and leaving you hanging and not feeling like in any moment that you don't have a partner.

You know, it's like being in a committed relationship, especially an engagement or certainly a marriage.

is that comfort or that security to say, I have a lot of expectations of you and you have a lot of expectations of me.

And those, and more than anything, when you break it all down, is that we're just, we can always count on each other and we're, we're always there for each other above anyone else, right?

So like, I understand his friends are like family,

but when you get married, you prioritize your partner over your family.

They become your family. Now, it doesn't mean you have to like leave your family.

But like, you know, it's weird when people like, when they still prioritize mom and dad and brother and sister over their wife or husband. That's, I don't, that's just a weird dynamic.

That's not the, like the proper evolution. I mean, I guess every exception is every rule and every situation is unique.

And if two people find each other, but they're both like, listen, I'm obsessed with my family. And they're like, well, I'm obsessed with, and so we'll just like, fine.

I mean, you know, to each their own. But the average relationship, it's important to know that you're choosing each other.
So the fact that his friends are like his family, great.

I'm glad he's found his chosen family knowing that he doesn't have a family of his own but that's not an excuse to not choose you and make you feel like a top priority and then find the balance of how he can still be there for his friends but like again like it's a lot easier to marry someone who really wants to make you who wants to start a family with you and yeah however that family looks you know even it's a if it's a family made up with a bunch of friends you guys have to feel like your mom and dad so to speak you know it starts with the two of you and everything trickles down from there.

You know? Yeah. So, yeah, I just like, I think you should nudge him on the couple's therapy.
And if he's not ready, then the question is, why not?

And if you're not ready, it's just like, what are you pushing off?

Because, like, it's a bit of a red flag to, I mean, are you, is someone really, if, I mean, again, I think a lot of guys just push off therapy because they don't want to do it.

So maybe him saying, I'm not ready, is this an excuse?

But if it's not an excuse, if there's a real there there behind him not being ready, how ready is he actually, you know, to commit to what you need him to commit to?

So you have the right to say, well, fair enough, but like, how serious you are about us? Because again, I think it was really easy for him to say yes to a three-year fake deadline. Right.

Yeah, I understand that. And yeah, he has done therapy when he was a child and he did not have very great experiences.
So that is. I think you got to acknowledge that.

I mean, like, you know, I met Natalie and she, you know, early in our relationship, she opened up about some things that happened to her. I was like, you know, like, you should look into this.

And her first therapist was terrible, you know, blamed, blamed, you know, and it's just like, you have, you know, it's just like, hey, I'm really sorry that happened, but they're not.

That's not how it all is. And, you know, there are bad doctors out there.
There are bad mechanics. And like, that is, but a good therapist can really be helpful.

And if it's not a therapist, you just need to find someone. And maybe if it's me, but like, I want to have these open lines of communication.
And I never want to feel like you're bottling things up.

And then, like, honestly, I think you could make a joke to him to re-engage this conversation about three years, not to be, not to stereotype you.

And maybe you're an absolute whiz, but you could make a joke and be like, I'm really mad at bat. I'm really bad at math.
And I just realized that 33 plus three is 36.

And I am not waiting till I'm 36 to find out whether we're going to settle down together. And I just don't know why I said three years, to be honest with you.
We've been dating for two years.

And like, I kind of want to know if this is going in the direction I need it to go because like, I love you and I love, I want to say a future with you.

And I'm not saying I need an engagement tomorrow, but like, I really want us to, like, I want our relationship to be about moving this thing forward. And what I'm not interested in.

is putting our relationship on cruise control for the next two years while we just like play house and not really prioritize our future. Because that's kind of what you pitch to him.

You pitch to him as everything's kind of fine right now. Let's just live together.
Let's not really, let's just status quo. And it's like, why would you want that?

I kind of have like said, you know, some of that to him because I was in a relationship for my entire 20s, like a nine-year relationship.

And it ended with, with, you know, nothing to show, you know, it just ended. And I did feel like I wasted my entire time.
And I was just like, I'm not doing that again.

And I've been very upfront about that with him. I'm like, you know, I was like, you need to realize what I've experienced in my past and you need to be considerate of that.
Yeah.

What do you say about that? He said, I was right. He's like, you're absolutely right.
He's like, I need to be more conscientious, like, about what you have gone through and

consider that. It sounds like

when you speak up, it sounds like he responds fairly positively, you know, and it sounds like despite your frustrations, he seems like he cares about you. 1000%.

It's a fine line, but you have to be without threatening to break up in the short term.

How do you get him to feel like a little bit disconnected from you where he feels like you're pulling away, which makes him go, I need to focus on my girl, you know, like that power, like right now, he has this ability to say, I'm going to go hang out with my friends.

I'm not going to consider your feelings. And ultimately, he is not worried about you leaving him.

Other than like annoying you and having a conversation and to like just talk you off the ledge, which he's fine doing, he has the power in that situation.

So I feel like you have to find the way to just say, I'm just not dealing with that.

Next time he pulls that, I would kind of give him the cold shoulder. See, that doesn't.
I've tried. I've done that where I do shut down when I get frustrated.

I'll just be like, okay, i'm not you ain't gonna say anything right now because i feel like what's going to come out of my mouth is probably something i don't want to say so i'm just not going to and it bothers him when i shut down it's like well i don't know what you want how you i've even said i even said that to him with the sure the three-day festival i was like well how would you like me to respond to that what do you say He didn't say anything.

I just said, I was like, you know, it doesn't, what you're saying to me doesn't make sense because you're so worried about not being able to find your friends if you separate from them, but yet you're so willing to separate from me.

Yeah. I mean, listen, I,

again,

like you're already doing the thing that kind of suggested.

And I only suggested it because it's like, I know it seems a little bit game playing, and I'm sure people listening are like, I don't sound healthy or productive or sound a little toxic.

Listen, at the end of the day, you just, you have to get to the point where you can say to him, I don't know why I said three years.

If we're not going to end up together, I want to find out sooner than later. And I'm not saying I need an engagement ring tomorrow, but I want us to get engaged and married sooner than later.

We live together. We play house.
I'm 33. You're 31.
If you don't want this, what do you need to figure that out? And

more than anything, I want us on a consistent basis to like focus on our connection. And I want to feel chosen by you.
more than you choose other people.

I want you to have relationships with your friends. I want you to be there for your friends.
I want to feel close with them, but I always want to be on the same page.

And I do think we could benefit from

help. And if you're not willing to do that, then I'm a little nervous about your ability to give me what I need.
And I think you really just have to push that issue.

And it's like, I think you, it, there's a balance between like begging for a ring and like focus like, you know, I think a lot of guys in general get turned off by you know let's say for example like you know getting pushed for an engagement someone's girlfriend just wants to like keep up with the Joneses well my friends are getting engaged so when are we going to get engaged and things like that where it's just it's a more about fulfilling a fantasy rather than like are we ready so I think if you are more practical and intentional and and pragmatic about why you want to move this forward I think it'll make sense to him.

It's, you're not just, you're just not like, well, you know, I just want to do this. It's like, yeah, like, hey, I've been in the situation before.
You know, we've been living together.

You're doing some things that honestly make me feel a little unsafe and a little uneasy about the prospect of ending up with you. Told him he makes me not feel very safe to express myself.
And

how did he respond to that? Kind of taken aback. He was just like, you don't feel safe.
And I was like, no, I don't feel like I can emotionally rely on you as a partner. And what do you say?

And he asked me for examples and I gave him some scenarios where I'm like, I feel like you completely shut me down when I was just trying to tell you how I felt. And I don't appreciate that.

And what'd he say? He was like, I'm sorry I made you feel that way. Like, he's like, I know, I don't want you to feel that way.
And I was like, I don't want to feel that way either, but I do.

He just had, like I said, at the end of the day, in a weird way, he has to know you're willing to walk away. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. I'm not saying you need to threaten that, but like, it's, he's getting a little too comfortable disappointing you.
Yeah, I think you're right.

I did tell him, like, I i didn't wasn't you know i'm just like hey like i do like i love you and i want to build a life with you and that's why i want him sorry

that's why i want this relationship to move forward because i can see that with you like i freaking love him he has so many amazing qualities he has shown up for me in so many ways like he's a really good person

Well, I think you lead, lead with this, lead with this energy, you know? I don't know. You don't have to cry, but like, listen, you clearly, like, I think

a man who cares about you is going to want to know that you feel that way about him.

This type of a man like him who doesn't have a family, who values his friends the way he does, like, this type of love that you have for him will make him feel safe.

And he, and men want and need to feel safe. And this is the type of security he's going to not want to lose.

So showing him this type of of love that you have for him and serious about how you want to invest in him while simultaneously being willing to say, but if you can't give me this,

I don't want to make the hard choice. I'm going to have to stop giving you this love.

And I want to know that you're in it with me.

You know, this is going to, he's going to respond a lot better to this than like the nagging, the rolling the eyes, the like you, what you don't want to do is lead with anger and pettiness and and nitpicking and like critiquing his friends and like rolling your eyes at him you know and like huffing and puffing that just makes him feel like he's in trouble and you're mom and he's a little boy and that just gets super fucking annoying you want to bring

you want to bring this energy which is

i'm i'm here for you you can count on me I'm your security blanket. I love you.
You are a great man. I love so many things about you.
You do this for me. You make me feel this way.
Yada, yada, yada.

But I need you to step up and I want to feel, I want you to make this. And otherwise, I'm going to have to leave you.
And that's giving more girlfriend.

That's giving more, you know, you lecturing him and calling him a bad boy and punishing him only for, you know, it's like, it's, you know, don't be his mom.

I mean, that's probably the biggest thing you have to like ask yourself. Am I coming across more like a mom or am I coming across as his partner? Yeah.
No, yeah, you're right. And I will say

he has made some baby steps with therapy. There is a therapist I love on TikTok and I send him a lot of his clips and he will watch them and he will talk to them about me, about

with me.

So

baby steps.

Yeah, I would really just be careful about punt. punting this down the road.

I agree with you. It's just scary.
I know, but you need to know now. And I think you can bring that conversation.
I don't even know why I said three years. I mean, he would probably agree with you.

It's just like, if you're not going to marry me, do you really want me to wait three years? I mean, come on, that's not fair to me. You know, do you want kids? Yeah.

Yes, I do, but also it's, it's kind of like not even ready to have kids right now. No one's ready.

No one's ready to have kids.

Yeah.

He's very much hesitant on that factor. He's a what? He doesn't.
He doesn't know if he wants kids.

He's never really considered having them and he's never been with anyone that actually has made him think about it. I think, you know, I'm projecting here, but I think you guys should.

Listen, I think now, weirdly enough, I talk to so many people on Ask Nick. And when I ask this question, and especially when I'm talking to women around your age, it's a lot of, there's like,

it's like you're not supposed to, it's like, I don't know, maybe

I'm not sure.

And that's fine. I mean, again, if you don't want, I don't want to push kids on anyone.
But again, this is just personal experience.

The ability to love something outside of yourself in the way that you do really,

it puts your life in such a clear focus.

And it's a very rewarding experience. All I'm saying is, I think there's a lot of things in this world that will

tell people

that

whether it's fear of the future or whatever, that why kids aren't

the best option, a good idea. And I think all that is a bunch of horse shit.

And if you don't want to have kids, don't have kids because I definitely think there's a lot of people out there who say they want to have kids and don't enjoy being parents.

But that being said, if the idea of loving something outside of yourself and giving yourself a sense of purpose that

no matter what's going on in your life, makes you wake up with such excitement and joy because you have this thing, then I would, uh, I would embrace that. But, anyways, that's an aside.
Um,

yeah, I had a miscarriage when I was 23. So

I, yeah, and I'm sorry about you, Natalie.

I loved your first episode. It, it was amazing.
Um,

but um, yeah, I do, I would love kids, I would, but I also,

it's kind of scary out there. It is.
And

I personally financially could not afford it at this point. I hear you.

People will figure it out. Lead with love with your boyfriend.
Make him feel valued. Make him feel special.
Be his cheerleader.

Support him while simultaneously having expectations of him of what he needs to get to you. Give to you.

will go a lot further than nagging him and being his mom and talking down to him and lecturing him how he's not a good boyfriend.

Or, you know, when you are speaking to him, ask yourself how you feel like it's coming across.

And if you can master speaking to him as his girlfriend, his lover, his future partner, his wife, his support system, the person who makes him feel the most valued in this world, you will get so much more out of him.

than the person who is,

you know, wagging that finger. Yeah, my therapist told me to

give out positives first before telling him there's something wrong. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I need to be a lot better about that. Or just like make him feel really valued.
Maybe in the next month, you know, maybe step one is forgetting about pushing this aside. You know,

you were fine with pushing it away three years. We're not going to do that, but you can push it off for a month.

And the next month, I want you to focus on, you know, doesn't mean you compliment for him for things that piss you off, but I want you to focus on complimenting him, making him feel valued,

like his, who he is as a person, you know, checking in with him emotionally, just really connecting with him.

And if there's things that he's doing, it's frustrating to you, now's not the time maybe to bring that up. And then, you know, and then maybe in a month from now, after you've really invested in.

and being his kind of emotional support system and cheerleader, you know, then you can bring up the whole, I've been thinking about our relationship and our timeline.

And listen, I don't know why I said three years.

Math is not my strong suit or whatever, make a joke. Um,

and just be like, I want to know, you know, and I want us to work towards something.

And I want, you know, I want us to find the balance in our relationship so that you can enjoy your hobbies and enjoy your friends, but I can also still feel like I'm your number one. Yeah.
Yeah.

And I, yeah, you're right. I need to

learn how to do that.

I did buy him a book that was 50 things of what I love about him.

There you go.

You can hear it though more.

I know, I know he can. And I've actually been really trying to be better about that.
Yeah, men want to feel like they're valued and they have a purpose and they need a purpose.

And I don't know what your boyfriend's purpose is or what drives him. Again, usually, like back in the day, it used to be.

Marriaging kids. Yeah.

You know, there's this person I follow online. He was responding to a tweet.
And he was probably, a tweet was basically saying, like, you know, kids help men reach their full potential.

I think their full potential, something about that. I don't know.

And this person is,

I don't know the relationship status, but

doesn't have kids. And I think

fairly single. And a very successful person.

And he was more like, he was like, I kind of reject this premise.

I didn't text him or anything because I didn't want to get into it with them.

But he was basically saying, like, I think a lot of people can benefit from having kids, but I don't think you have to have kids in order to be able to reach your full potential.

And I don't know if it was full of potential. It was something else in that category.
And my thought was, I was just kind of reading it. My thought was like, again, exceptions to every rule.

It's like, of course, like, it's not like it's the only way to do something.

But for most people,

being able to

love someone and something more than yourself is the easiest way to drive you. Because if your only focus is you and your happiness, in fact, that is like that's how people often get depressed.

You know,

when if you only have to care about yourself and then things don't work out for you, it's very easy for things to feel dark because there's nothing else that brings you out of that light.

If you're only focused on your immediate needs and what you're getting or not getting, and when you don't get those things, everything feels dark.

But when you have things in your life, whether it's family or friends or whatever it is, that's why people got into church and religion. And

the things that you love outside of yourself, you can be inspired by other people. So like if when you're down, people can lift you up.
You can find purpose in wanting to help other people.

And so it's just so much easier, you know. Yeah.
I think you'd be amazing, dad. And I told him that.
Yeah. To

love something outside of yourself.

And like, if, listen, if you're lucky enough to have friends and, you know, but like friends, as, you know, as close as friends are, like friends aren't family and eventually some of those friends will meet people or whatever and it's just like again exceptions to every rule but you know um

you know i just told him yeah because he asked me why i wanted kids because we both had really crappy childhoods not not great at all yeah i don't i don't even talk to my dad like he's pretty much dead than me his dad died so just not not great and um he asked me why and i said because i want to be able to do something completely different than what I experienced.

Yeah. Like I want to be able to love my kids and teach them emotional love and support and everything that I didn't get.
Yeah. Natalie, you know, Natalie's parents are lovely people,

but she did not have the same childhood I had. And she has chosen, you know, as a mother to be an exceptional mom, you know, and

present in ways that I don't think she experienced as a child, you know, and I think that gives her a lot of purpose. And again, like, you know, if you don't,

this is, I'm only speaking to,

if for anyone listening, for the people who, if you, you know, if you don't want to have kids, don't have kids.

But for the people who have been convinced not to have kids or question whether the part of them that is interested in kids, if it's really worth it, I think, um, yeah.

And I mean, God, our parents, like, man, when I, my parents became parents and they were so broke.

Yeah. You know, just the way there's such a sense of entitlement about

the current generation of all the things we have, everything has to be perfect and set. Yeah.

Sometimes it's better in life to just figure it out, you know, get yourself in a situation, then you figure it out, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
I, I agree. I'm,

I'm very, uh, not, I don't really need much to be happy. Um, I am, I feel like my boyfriend is very much like, what's the next thing that's going to make me happy? Um, and his motivation is money.

He wants to work up in his career. He wants to have the big house and the fancy cars.

And he wants to be able to go on vacations and do all these things, which is like, hey, I would love vacations too. Who doesn't want that? But like, I don't need a big house.
I don't need fancy cars.

I just want to be happy. Yeah.

I mean, and those are cool goals. And like, I'm not, I was always been, I've always been money motivated, but it doesn't bring happiness.
It does, there's a moment of like, oh, that's cool.

I did that. And then you're, you're distressed about keeping it.

But anyway i think you got a plan uh keep us posted okay um i will focus on not being his mom okay i'll do that all right thank you all right bye bye bye

Cold mornings, holiday plans. This is when I need my wardrobe to just work.
And that's why we are all about Quince. They make it easy to look sharp, feel good, and find gifts that last.

From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, Quince pieces are crafted from premium materials and built to hold up without the luxury markup.

If you're looking for a one-stop shop for Christmas gifts this year, head over to Quince.

They have everything you could ever need for your grandparents, for your mothers, for your in-laws, for your friend at work, whoever it is. They've got great luggage.

Their carry-on is the best carry-on I've ever used. Their bedding is unlike any other.
They also have great robes and slippers and just everything Quince is doing is so good.

But their Mongolian cashmere sweater for $50 is something I will wear year round. I pair it with absolutely anything.

It's great to layer with, but it's also great to like in the summer, throw on a cashmere sweater, wrap it around your neck. Whatever it is you're doing, Quince has you covered.

And don't forget that down jacket that I got you from Quince. Now he's been wearing it up at the lake.
It looks stylish. It's cozy.
It's warm. It's incredible.

So give yourself some great pieces this holiday season. And don't forget to pick up some great gifts from your friends from Quince.
They will absolutely love all those pieces.

Whether you're looking for those classic staples that everyone needs in their wardrobe or some really unique pieces or luggage, think of Quince this holiday season.

Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince. Don't wait.
Go to quince.com slash V-I-A-L-L for free shipping on your order in 365-day returns. Now available in Canada.

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Free shipping in 365 day returns, quince.com slash V-I-A-L-L.

If you are looking for the perfect gift that lasts long beyond the holidays, Aura Frames is the hidden gem for you. This is a gift I got my dad last year for Christmas.

It is a digital frame that you can, anyone can send photos, videos to, and it automatically uploads on to a digital frame that just plays everything. There's a speaker.
You can hear your videos.

And this was so perfect because my dad was in the hospital. He was obviously missing out on Christmas and being with his family.

So everyone was kind of sending photos of our Christmas and what everyone was up to, just keeping him updated and obviously keeping him connected. That is what Aura Frames is all about.

It also only takes two minutes to set up. So even the most technologically challenged people can set it up.
It's super easy.

You have complete control over who has access to your frame, and the Aura app lets you share photos more securely than with email, which many other digital frames require.

You can share photos or videos from any device, and they will instantly appear on the frame wherever it is in the world. No memory card required.
You can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it.

For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carver Matte frames, named number one by Wirecutter, by using promo code V-I-A-L-L at checkout.

That's A-U-R-AFrames.com, promo code viall

this deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays support the show by mentioning us at checkout terms and conditions apply

Caraway is the go-to kitchen solution for all you cookers out there. I have been a Caraway customer for over five years now and I will never stop being one.

I absolutely love their pots and pans and their bakeware as someone who's cooking six days a week. I'm always cooking with Caraway.

You want to make sure you're cooking with things that you feel safe that your family can eat off.

It is crazy how many pots and pans out there are made with harmful chemicals that you do not want to be cooking on. The average adult unknowingly consumes over 150,000 plastic particles every year.

Over 70% of cooking and bakeware pans sold in America are coated with PTFEs, but not with caraway. Cook with the peace of mind that your family will be safe with.
It's also incredibly easy to clean.

It's amazing. Also,

their pots and pans look stylish. You can hang them in your kitchen if you like to do that.
They come all different types of colors.

They also have a bunch of different things for the kitchen, utensils, butcher blocks, amazing. Our kitchens are filled with Caraway, and yours should be too.

It makes an amazing holiday gift, a great wedding gift, something for your friends and family and for yourself. The holidays are closer than ever.
So get their gift or yours in time.

Visit CarawayHome.com slash V-I-A-L-L-10 to take advantage of this limited time offer for up to 20% off your your next purchase.

Again, that's carawayhome.com/slash V-I-A-L-L-10 to get new kitchenware before the holidays. Caraway, non-toxic cookware made modern.

How's it going? Hi, Nick. My name is Christina.
I'm 30 years old, and I recently broke up with my wonderful boyfriend, and I'm having second thoughts. Okay.

Why did you break up with him?

Well, it's a very convoluted love story, but essentially, we were long long distance for a little bit of time when we first started dating and then i kind of found myself in a limbo i was let go from a job and we were in a new relationship and going back and forth and visiting him there was a position that opened right across the street from him and one thing about my career is it's a very niche career and not a lot of opportunities pop up so when that happened i thought it was fate i was kind of in my manifestation era back then.

And I just thought the stars had aligned and it was just meant to be. And so I ended up moving up there after we were in a relationship for maybe six weeks and tried to just drown out the noise.

There was a lot of opinions and I did listen to them and I knew that there was a risk involved with what I was doing.

to be clear he was such a great person so i i thought it was worth it for that but you also just like it was the job Yeah, I felt like the stars had aligned.

You know, I didn't have anything really here. I didn't have a job.

I mean, I had friends and community and a house, but deep down, I mean, at hindsight, it's 2020, but would this have been a job that you would have accepted and wanted regardless if your boyfriend was there?

You know, probably not.

Okay.

But it just felt like. I need, I just felt like it was too good to be true.
And it just felt like everything that I, the stars had aligned.

And it just wouldn't make sense for me to not try it at least. And for your information, I've never lived with a significant other before.
So you guys moved in with each other.

Yeah, very shortly after dating.

So that was really, and I moved up there. And just for context, like, I live, for example, in Florida, and he lived, for example, in New York.
So very starkly contrasting places.

And ultimately, when I moved up there, it was just kind of a dumpster fire. I had a really hard time making community.

I

had a lot of doubts about myself being able to be in a long-term committed relationship with an individual because

I just, I didn't enjoy living with a person, a significant other.

What didn't you enjoy about living with him?

I just felt like we were on top of each other and it kind of made a lot of things clear to me that I don't think I would have noticed if we were not living together.

It was kind of one of the reasons I ended up ending the relationship was I just felt like his identity became our relationship. Like he didn't, he wasn't reaching out to his friends as much.

He wasn't really going out and doing things. He stopped going to the gym.
He just kind of like became like just homebound with me because I was homebound because I didn't have anywhere else to go.

Like I joined a Plotty Studio and tried to get involved, but otherwise I just didn't have any friends or anywhere to go.

And so it just felt like we were just commiserating on top of each other all the time.

And ultimately, I ended up moving back to Florida, where I'm at now, and gave the relationship a little bit of a shot, even though I think when I moved back home, I kind of knew it was done, but I wanted to give it a fair shot.

and see if it was truly just the location that was impacting our relationship or whether it was actually just my relationship with him in general. But it was hard to reconcile with when I ended it.

And why I'm still kind of struggling is because

he really is like such a great person.

And all of the green flags that I've, you know, been saying for years and years that I would want in a person perfectly packaged up with him, but for some reason, it still didn't land.

And I don't know if it's me. Well, the way you're speaking and describing, it does sound like it's you.

Well, I only say that because you're, you're not critiquing him, you're critiquing yourself. Minus like a couple things about him.

It's like, okay, maybe he got a little lazy and a little comfortable in this relationship. But it was more like we were living on top of each other.

I felt a little kind of claustrophobic with just kind of having him always there. You know, you, you're describing yourself as someone who really enjoys her independence.

And then maybe this whole like committed relationship isn't for you. Yeah, I'm starting to feel that way.

But when we broke up, we we didn't really end things by i guess definitely because we had an animal together um

you bought a pet together even though you were

no we don't we didn't buy him together or we didn't get him together he is my cat and then um i only had him for maybe a few weeks before we started dating so he's kind of ours in a sense that he knew both of us most listen that's just that's just an excuse for you two to maintain ties and since you're on the fence about leaving this relationship you're more than happy to you know pretend that you guys are co-parenting this cat I ended up, I had to fly back to New York to go get the cat and I brought the cat back.

So that part was done and there really was not any, I guess, more room or need for communication. But for some reason, we are still just communicating and texting.
And

it doesn't mean anything because I just, I guess I don't know how to find, like cut it off forever.

because that's just hard for me to reconcile with not having him as like a at least a friend ever again.

What do you want out of a relationship? A period or with any, like with him? Period. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely a very independent person and I have, you know, my own things going on.

I travel for work pretty consistently now. So I'm gone quite a bit of time.
So I would, you know, need someone who was okay with that. He wasn't?

It was a different job that I was, oh, I was more in a clinical job when I was with him. So this is a different.
How long have you guys been broken up? About three and a half months.

And you've gotten like a brand new job or something?

I, yeah, I, the new job kind of lined up with my move back home.

So at the beginning of the year, we kind of had a come to Jesus moment, basically, where I told him that I was really unhappy in that state

physically and mentally. And so I was going to start applying for jobs back in my home state and kind of get that process started.
And I ended up getting a job down here.

And it kind of brought, it was, it brought me back home, but it was really the only way I could get back home because I can't just move home without a job.

So how much of you breaking up had to do with that? It sounds like a lot. I mean, distance was a huge factor.

I kind of told myself that, well, I wasn't sure when I was when I was living with him, if it was the relationship that was causing me concern or if it was just my overall unhappiness with the state that I was living in.

And Marl, now that you're, I mean, where does his opinions come into play here? Was he like, I'm not going going to move for you, so you want to be with me? You have to be here.

Was he like, I love you. I want to make it work.
And you were like, no, I don't want to do long distance. Like, what, like, what conversation did you guys have?

Yeah, he was willing to move down here, but we were just going to give it some time to settle, especially with this new job that I started.

It was a very intense, like three months of onboarding where I was gone for quite a bit of time.

So we weren't really starting that conversation until I was well situated in this new position.

But eventually, like, he, the last time he came into town to visit me was kind of when I decided to end things. And that was about a week before I ended up breaking up with him.

And I had to do it over FaceTime because I was traveling for work. How do you handle that?

He took it on the chin, which is kind of one of the reasons that I broke up with him is because I felt in our relationship that he didn't feel very convicted about anything.

And he kind of just absorbed whatever my feelings and my opinions were. It's almost like he lost himself in our relationship.

And even my friends noticed that, the friends that I've met him, they're like, we don't know anything about him except that he's your boyfriend.

And I guess going back to your question of what I'm looking for is I want someone who is like me and has, you know, their own independence and their own things going for them and has their own identity separate to just being in a relationship with me.

And you don't think he's moldable? Well, we were together for a year and a half. So how long does molding take? Well, I don't know how much molding were you trying to do in that year and a half.

I mean, listen, I think it takes a long time to actually get to know someone.

The first year of a relationship, give or take, is generally like that kind of honeymoon phase where you're just generally kind of excited.

And in that period of time, you, you know, first it started long distance and then you had this kind of fortuitous kismic moment of getting a job right where he lived and you were very excited about that.

And then that was a process and then you got a job and then you moved and then realized that's, you know, that place, what isn't exactly a place that you were vibing with, but you're, you know, that you're focused.

You know, so like, yeah, that, that can go fast. That whole period of time in which you're more processing other situations other than,

hmm, my boyfriend's kind of like a little too comfortable.

Wouldn't shock me if maybe you realized that in the last six months of year and a half relationship, but never really addressed it with him and then observed it.

And then simultaneously, you weren't happy with the city you're living in and then just use that more or less as an excuse as to why you should break up.

And it's also tough, which is why I'm not very much of a everything happens for a reason and this is all serendipitous and all these things.

Listen, it's tough to make big decisions in our life, right? Moving across the country, moving to an unfamiliar city.

So it's easier to make us feel good about just decisions by thinking in, you know, fate or the stars are lying or this happened for a reason. And, you know, you made a choice.

It didn't work out to your expectations. You've made adjustments.
That's kind of how I look at it. Right.

Yeah.

But because you had this like, you built it all up, the crash is kind of even harder when it doesn't play out the way you hope. Right.

You know, and I, I've been told from others that I have too high of expectations. And I just, I, that's something that's really hard for me to hear.

I, I don't, I mean, listen, I, I think, I think it's okay to have high expectations.

I have high expectations, but you have to be able to recognize at times that maybe at times your expectations, are they of yourself or is it fair to communicate those expectations to certain people in your life?

It doesn't sound like you've did much.

You know, you asked, well, how long does it take to mold someone?

And again, like, there's not a definitive answer, but my question back to you is, how much time and energy or how much did you even communicate to your boyfriend like at all?

That like, hey, listen, like X, Y, or Z bothers me. I'd love for you to work on this.
Like, did you? Yeah.

I mean, several times in our relationship, I brought up my concerns and my concerns related to just our overall compatibility or long time or long-term compatibility.

I mean, when it that's not, okay, let's table that for a second because that might be fair to say. That's not.
If you say, hey, I'm worried about our compatibility, it's like, okay, what am I?

What am I supposed to do with that? If you don't think we're compatible, then we're not, I don't want to convince you that we're compatible.

that's not you going to him and say hey listen i feel like you've gotten a little too comfortable in a relationship you used to take good care of yourself when we first started dating and now you stopped going to the gym for an example or i notice you're not eating as healthy as you used to be and you've gotten just a little too kind of i don't know you're kind of in hibernation mode and that kind of bugs me you know can you work on that like a note for him That's something he can do on it.

I mean, it might trigger him. He might be defensive.
I don't know. But like saying we're not compatible is not like something he's supposed to do.

That's just an observation that you had about the two of your personalities.

So again, back to you, that have you ever, if you have a problem with him or some of the things he's doing or not doing that he could work on, or when you say, how long does it take to mold someone is implying that you can like, you know, coach him up a little bit.

That like, especially, you know, men. Every good man has a woman who's really kind of refined him.
And, you know, like when I met Nally, I was a little older, right?

And I think she improved my fashion, even though I was a fashionable, I thought I was a fashionable guy, but you know, like she gave me some notes and like I took it. And she's helped me with things.

I've helped her.

We've, we've made each other better people, but also like, in, or, or just more specifically, we, we've communicated what we like and we've been willing to meet those expectations of each other because we love each other, right?

Like there has to be some kind of molding. And again, maybe you did.

I don't want to discount it, but you, you're, you're describing more like you, you relied on fate or this like random thing to justify a decision you made. It didn't work out.

And then you did the thing where it's just like, well, I don't know if we're compatible. Yeah, that about sums it up.

It's hard for you to ignore like what you feel are incompatibilities, especially when it's related to something that I don't know if he could fix or mold.

Maybe. But maybe you're just like in your, I don't know, it's easy for us to convince ourselves of things.

You convinced yourself that it was destiny that you're supposed to move to a place you wouldn't otherwise want to move to. So clearly you are good at convincing yourself of things.

So you could easily just as convince yourself that you're not compatible. Or maybe it's just like, I don't know, maybe a little communication could go a long way.
I don't, I don't know.

You know, when Nell and I first move in with each other,

it was definitely an adjustment period for her. She had no friends in LA.
I'm not the most like talkative guy during the day. You know, she felt pretty lonely at first.

And she had to like say, hey, I need you to do this. I need you to do that.
I need, this is what I need from you. And I was like, yeah, that's fair.
You know, let me, let me work on that.

And it wasn't like natural. She could have just as easily been like, I don't know, this motherfucker doesn't like say much during the day.
And like, I guess we're not, I need this.

He's not giving me that. I guess we're not compatible.
Listen,

you're never going to find the person just like you. Like your solution to your current problem sounds like, I want someone who's just as motivated and just as independent as me.

Well, that maybe, that might be true. But you might come to find that, well,

well, that same person is just as motivated as me and just as independent. We, we're always on a plane.
We're never in the same room.

I don't, I never feel like I'm a priority with this guy because he's super independent. And I don't know, I always feel like I'm second to his job.

And this was a guy who really made you feel like, you know, yeah, you got the ick a little bit because he was lazy and got a little too comfortable, but like he certainly, you certainly never had to question his commitment to you.

No, definitely not. And I talk to a lot of women who do.
I know. I listen to

And again, like, maybe he's not your guy. I don't know.

It doesn't sound like you spent an actual tangible amount of energy trying to really work on this relationship with your boyfriend to try to figure out if you guys could figure out how, as two individuals, you could understand each other's needs and see if you guys were willing to meet those needs.

Maybe that's why you're questioning that. It sounds like you enjoy having a boyfriend, but like there's you also have, you

some unique things about you as we all do you like your independence you want to

but it also it sounds like he was kind of willing to give that to you he was but i he i and i don't i i've only been in like two serious relationships and they were both very different from each other um prior to dating this or ending this relationship i a few years ago was in another one with

someone very opposite of him in a lot of ways. How'd that go? Not well.
It was a horrible breakup. He broke up with me and it was the worst thing that ever happened to me at the time.

That was like, I guess, the first like true heartbreak I ever really felt.

And it took me. Forgetting about him breaking up with you and breaking your heart, how was it in the relationship? It was very

fire and ice. Like it was very, you know, passionate, but also we just didn't, we didn't get along.

And does he have overall more the qualities of of like also independent like you, also driven like you, also?

Yes. Yeah.
All right. So, and I guess he also had his own life and his whole, his own identity and his own thing going on.
Which one did you enjoy more? It's, that's such a good question.

Um, I, I mean, honestly, my answer is the

first one. Okay.
And did you enjoy it because of the drama? Which one? Okay. Which one were you happier in?

When things were wet, when things were.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't get to cherry pick the good days from the bad days you have to think about your emotional state on a consistent basis and how did you wake up happy and just kind of like at peace definitely felt more peace in this most recent one um but the peace was oftentimes disrupted by i guess my own dissatisfaction with the status quo my unhappiness with the this like actual state that we were living in so just the city and just the people and having a hard time i mean listen uh you're describing a very typical situation toxic relationships are exciting for sure and they're passionate

but you know maybe that's what people need you know but it sounds like this i mean again i don't i don't know a lot about this relationship that you ended and i'm not trying to convince you to go back with this guy but if i were you it doesn't sound like you spent all that much energy on this relationship that you ended and actually figuring out if you two could become each other's person and really understand what the other person needs to make that person happy and was he capable of stepping up in ways that you needed him to step up to meet some of those needs while simultaneously not being this toxic controlling or unreliable or kind of self-centered partner that at times made you feel the exhilaration when he would meet those needs, but felt made you feel very alone and empty when he wouldn't.

and you just kind of wanted your boyfriend to be that and that's just not how relationships work you you have to communicate and talk and open up and be vulnerable about what you're getting and not getting you have to be willing to hear your partner give you notes about what frustrates them about you to the point where you might get a little defensive, but say, you know, honestly, I'm defensive.

I want to push back, but that's also fair. Let me reflect.
Let me think about it. I guess my worry is

because I do have such mixed feelings about it, and I don't know if I truly saw it through the way that I should and that he deserves.

But I guess my, because the states are very far apart, it's a massive undertaking to move the lake. Does he want to move? Is he willing to move?

He would have for me, but my worry is that he would get down here. You know, he has a house, he'd have to sell it or go through that whole ordeal.
We wouldn't have to sell it. I wouldn't sell it.

I would rent it. Well, yeah, I guess he could do that too.

He could,

my worry is.

Well, he's not that much of a loser, he's got his own house, he's, you know, like, uh, I know he's not, he's not a loser, yeah, he's wonderful, but um, I'm just, I guess I'm worried that he will physically get down here and it's gonna be the same, I guess, feeling that I have, which is just it's not right, but he would have gone all the way all the way.

I think you really need to reflect on what that feeling is. You are describing a very typical and I'm just gonna say, fairly immature sense of, and again, like, I, you know, you want to have it both.

Don't get me wrong. I mean, I don't know.
I mean, are you physically attracted to your boyfriend? Yeah. Or ex-you, you know, ex-boyfriend, yeah.
Ex-boyfriend. I was, yeah.

He's not going to have everything. I'm just going to be clear, you know, like no one does.

But yeah, you are describing someone that you're describing a relationship and a person that you kind of gave up on. And there's a lot of things to like about that relationship.

And you don't even have answers of whether you could work on or get the things that you didn't love about it. I mean, listen, it's a risk.
You can be upfront with them.

You can say, like, listen, I'm really regretting. I, I don't, I, I don't know.
I think I made a hasty decision. Honestly, I've just been kind of very confused about what I want versus what you want.

And I want to be selfless and I want to think of your feelings too.

You know that like, obviously that place, you know, where I moved, I, I, I hated it. And I'm kind of confused about whether like it was more about that.
I don't know, but I do miss you.

And I'm, I don't, you know, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what do we do about this? Maybe for the next six months, you guys have a long distance relationship.

You like your independence. So, like, I don't know, like, get on a plane once a month and

being each other's lives. You don't like good people are hard to find.
People are incredibly lonely out there.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on someone who meets a lot of your needs, but isn't perfect.

And then maybe you can, you know, without sounding like a mom or a nag, you could just say, you know, something that kind of bothered me is that you're like, I just feel like you got way too comfortable and stopped taking care of yourself.

I want you to have enough independence outside of me. But like, I don't know.
Maybe he just really wants to be a partner and maybe he really wants to have, you know, maybe wants to be.

Is it not emasculating to hear from your partner that they need to go to the gym? Like those are just conversations. Is it emasculating? I don't.
Yeah. No.

I guess everything's all about the delivery, you know? But

because there was one part in our relationship where we, I guess we had like maybe a fight, if you'd consider it.

And I was trying to like explain to to him like what I was missing or what I was trying to like say.

And I ended up saying something I think that was probably hurtful, which was the term beta, which I don't know if you're familiar with that. I'm familiar.

And there's

their word to describe what I was trying to say to him. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
That's the only word I could find.

You couldn't think of any other thing to describe?

To describe like what I felt like was him just like

molding into just like part of me and i i think there's a way that people can come together in a relationship but like you truly are like two individuals that i think complement each other you don't become one being

and i just i mean you you chose a word that's very divisive and very triggering and it's meant to be right i just i didn't know another a nicer word to describe what i felt like was him just not leading.

Why couldn't you just say that? You know, like, listen, somebody. I think of it in the moment.
Fair enough. Listen, and you can apologize, and it's not the end of the world.
Yeah.

It was a bad choice of words. You can acknowledge that.
But you can still have the right to say, listen, like, I'm always going to be independent and I'm always going to like take charge of my life.

But I do want you and when I'm in a relationship with you to feel like I'm not always making the calls. And I want you to feel, I want to know that you're taking pride.

And if nothing else, your health. I want a partner.
I want a co-pilot. You know, I don't need someone taking the lead.

I'm an independent woman and I like, I don't want to take a back seat either, but I want someone to be there by my side.

I don't want to bring someone along. Yeah.
I think, yeah, when it comes to like my relationship with a man, I, there are some expectations I have in terms of like who's really like leading that.

And maybe that's an antiquated or backwards point of view, but that's just how I feel. Like I have a great career.
I'm, you know, a boss or whatever, and whatever the term is and work.

But when it comes to like my relationship with a man, like I really have that expectation that they're going to be, for lack of better words, wearing the pants or like leading the charge.

And it just felt like I was put in my like masculine energy when I was dating him. And it just felt very, it just was off.
Something felt weird.

And I think it's just because I was kind of being in that masculine self. That makes sense.
And that's a valid thing.

And again, maybe he's not your guy, but it just sounds like you really haven't, other than calling him a beta beta and triggering him and hurting his feelings,

it doesn't sound like you've really been able to like talk to him about what you'd like him to work on. Yeah.

And maybe he can't get there. I don't know.

But while you have your doubts,

all I'm saying, it sounds like maybe there is a conversation worth having with him. Yeah.

Yeah. It's funny, the book sitting on your coffee table.

I did not take that advice. In fact, his birthday was shortly after we ended things.
And I did, you you know, text him and wish him a happy birthday. And that's kind of where things

we kind of not rekindled in a sense, but that's, I guess, the opening that I gave for us to start.

Well, don't

selfishly keep him in your life out of your comfort. If you're going to have him in your life, figure it out.
And maybe being long distance is a good place to start. to say,

I'm really having a hard time leaving this relationship because,

you know, maybe you just, you can compliment them. This is a great place to start with a critique.
Is that like you, you, you are the best boyfriend ever had. You're an amazing guy.

You have so many wonderful qualities. And those are the things I'm really missing and I really value.
Obviously, there were things about a relationship that bothered me.

And I would love for us to work on if we were to consider that. But like, you should be talking about how to move forward or stop talking.
Don't get in this, don't get in this like, what are we?

Pretend you're together, but like have no expectations. That's it's a waste of your time.
It's something that it's doing is that it is. Yeah.

And it's, it's holding both of us back from even exploring the so if you're going to talk to him, you need to talk about your relationship and what went wrong and what wasn't working and how you guys, if you're going to keep talking, plan on moving forward.

And it can be kind of a like a separation in a way, but you're still like focusing on, hey, like, I would like to work this out with you if you're, if you're open to it, maybe he's not open to it, you know?

I think if I told him to jump into oncoming traffic, he would do that. You definitely need to respect him a little bit more than you do.
Yeah.

He's a, he was a yes man. And I think in concept, women, that's what women want is someone to say yes to them all the time.
But when it's

in practice, within practice, it's like, no, we, we want someone, or at least for me, I'm speaking for myself here, want someone who's going to have a little bit of grit. I don't think you're alone.

I think, you know you want someone you want someone to it doesn't sound like honestly you respect them as much as you wish you did and ultimately you want to respect them more than anything and yeah you want

we all want someone who is our equal right someone who can check us and call us out but at the same time give in when we need them to give in you know because otherwise it doesn't feel like a sacrifice it doesn't feel like we're getting anything out of it ask them like what do i do that frustrates you how can I be a better partner to you?

And then, if he says nothing, to say that's that can't possibly be true. And then, if he does offer something, then you have to say, I need you to communicate that with me.

And I need you to have expectations of me. I have expectations of you.
I don't want to be the one who just has expectations of one of us.

But yeah, listen, if you don't respect them, then it's hard, that's hard to make work. Yeah, I don't, yeah, I guess that is true and like hard to

hard to admit and say out loud.

But I mean, I guess that's that kind of the root of all of it was it just didn't feel like

not that he wasn't man enough, but it just, yeah, I mean, it just felt like I was put in my masculine energy and I, that wasn't a place that I'd ever really been before.

I mean, my last relationship, the one that was kind of toxic and dramatic, that was certainly not, I was never in my masculine energy in that ever.

Um, so it was just a unique and new place for me to be in, and it was just hard.

I guess it just I took it as a we're not compatible and just kind of answered it that way instead of really, I guess, investigating, communicating.

I do think in general, maybe this is not specific for you, but in general, I mean, again, I don't think the conversations about masculinity in men have been all that healthy over the past five to 10 years.

I think the result has been, like everything else, the extremes. So you're either going to have those extreme kind of toxic alpha male guys or whatever.

But many of the men who have a desire to be a good guy

are very unsure

about the balance of when to take the lead. Yeah, the rhetoric's confusing.
I agree.

And so that's why when I, we were having that argument and the word beta came out of my mouth, it was just like, I didn't,

I didn't have another word to say in that moment because it was, you know, obviously emotional.

But I think women, you know, they want the masculine man, the leader, but we also want them to be nice and sweet. So I guess sometimes it can feel complicated or it can be confusing for men too.

It's like, well, what do you guys want?

So yeah,

I can see that as well.

But it sounds like it's worth at least a couple of conversations if he can, without you calling him a beta, if you can communicate to him that you need him to take more charge of his life and be willing to lead in other aspects of the relationship.

And you want to be able to count on him

from time to time. But you have to let him know that you believe in him and that you think he's capable of leading.
Yeah. I think for the guys out there who are confused, they need to

get permission to say, it is okay to step up and take charge. Give him permission, give him some guidance and see if he can go from there.
And if not, then

end it. Then end it.
Yeah. I think I just, I worry I'm going to wake up in 30 years and I'll be alone and I'll look back and be like, that, that was it.
And maybe,

but listen, he's clearly not the perfect guy.

And there's some things that you have the right to not be okay with, but you have to get better at communicating what you're not getting and not relying on fate to answer your questions. Yep.
Okay.

All right. I think I can, we'll see where it goes.
I'll follow up with you or I'll try to at least. I'd love to love an update.
Well, thank you, Nick.

You kind of told me what I was expecting, and I think I just needed to hear it from the horse's mouth. Great.
Well,

you're halfway there then. Well, thank you so much.
Huge fan. Love the show.
Thanks for listening. Thank you so much.
All right. Take care.
Bye. All right.
Bye-bye.

Article's mission is to make it easy for customers to create beautiful, modern spaces with high-quality, durable, and well-priced furniture. And you can certainly find that at Article.

We have been Article fans for years now, whether it's decorating our indoor spaces or our outdoor spaces. Article has been by our side through it all.

If you love mid-century modern coastal and scandy-inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other article product, you will absolutely love Article.

Regardless of the room that you are decorating, Article has you covered. Great quality pieces, great selections.
They also have the items when you need them.

So many furniture companies out there don't seem to have things in stock, and then you're waiting weeks, sometimes months for those pieces. Not with Article.

Most of their items are ready to ship right away when you purchase them.

It's Article offers fast, affordable shipping across the United States and Canada with options for professional assembly if you prefer a hands-off experience. Their customer service is also top-notch.

They make the whole shopping experience amazing if you're not absolutely in love with the Article pieces.

Article has a 30-day satisfaction guarantee and can help you shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it.

The Peace of Mind ensures you can invest in your home without hesitation. They truly make that process incredibly easy and painless.

Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more to claim. Visit article.com slash V-I-A-L-L and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

That's article.com slash V-I-A-L-L for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

Helix, we just, we had the best night of our sleep last night. Again, because it was Helix.
And it was amazing. Yes, we do.

Honestly, I have a bone to pick with Helix because as soon as we get into bed, I'm like wanting wanting to chit-chat and talk with Nick.

And he just immediately falls asleep because of how comfortable our mattress is. So many people rant and rave about it.
Anytime someone comes to stay with us, they are like, what am I sleeping on?

That was so good. Most of the time, our guests leave with a Helix mattress in their cart ready to purchase.
It truly is incredible. It's the best mattress ever made.

I honestly don't know why anyone would sleep on anything other than a helix because it's incredibly affordable. It's easy to have delivered.
It's easy to set up.

It's not only recommended by us, it's also recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine as a go-to solution for improving your sleep.

All you have to do is take a quick quiz that matches you with your perfect mattress based on your personal preferences of sleep, and it makes buying a mattress super easy.

They have a lineup of 20 unique mattresses for all kinds of sleepers. So it doesn't matter how you sleep, hot, cold, on your side, on your back.

For all the tall sleepers, the kiddos out there, Helix has a mattress for everyone.

So if you're looking for the best sleep of your life this holiday season, go to helixleep.com, answer a few questions about your sleeping preferences, and you you can thank us later.

Also, just know that you get a 100-night sleep trial on it, so you can try it out for 100 nights. And if you're not absolutely obsessed with your helix sleep, send it back for a full refund.

Also, all their mattresses come with a 10 to 15-year warranty, depending on the mattress, so you know you are in good hands.

So, this holiday season, don't get the worst sleep, get the best sleep, go to helixleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L and get 27% off site-wide for their Cyber Monday sale, their best of web offer.

That's helixleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 27% off site-wide. Exclusive for listeners of the Vile Files.

Make sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L.

This time of year, it's sensory overload everywhere, but one feeling we're still chasing is cozy. And Bombas has the socks, slippers, and tees, and basically everything to get you there.

Honestly, there is something weirdly therapeutic about fresh socks. The comfort on your feet, it feels so good.

And the sock scientists at Bombas have found a way to channel that energy into everything from slippers with sink and cushioning to satisfyingly weighty tees.

And that feeling, it doesn't stop after one wear, it keeps on going.

Everything that Bombus makes is with the highest quality, especially, I mean, they're certainly known for their socks, but their slippers and tees are also fantastic.

And if you're looking to get cozy this holiday season, treat yourself to something that Bombus makes. Also makes a great gift.
It's an amazing stocking stuffer.

Everyone in your family, just get them bombas. It's one of those gifts that everyone needs, but no one asks for because,

you know, they're just not thinking about it. But really, they will absolutely love anything you get them at Bombus this holiday season.
Whether it's slippers, whether it's socks, they have it all.

Their socks are cozy and comfortable for that staying in, but they also have dress socks, really all kinds of socks made with the highest of quality that will all feel great on your feet.

Protect your feet, people, and do it with bombus. Head over to bombus.com/slash V-I-A-L-L and use code V-I-A-L-L for 20% off your first purchase.
That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/slash V-I-A-L-L.

Code V-I-A-L-L-A. Check out.
How's it going? Good. How are you? Good.
What's your name? Megan. How old are you, Megan? I'm 31.
Actually, just turned 32 years old. Happy birthday.
Thank you.

How can I help? I have been in an ongoing situationship and I'm trying to figure out how to turn it into a relationship or if it will turn into a relationship. How long has it been a situationship?

About three months.

Why is it a situationship?

It's a situationship because we've been dating and talking and sort of progressing things like a relationship, but also under a conversation we've had where, you know, we've agreed to take things slow and that the person I've been seeing is not necessarily ready for a relationship that got out of something very recently before we met.

And so how recently? It had been like a month and it had been somewhat serious, like over a year and had lived together.

Okay, that's pretty fresh. Yeah.
Yeah. And so we had agreed that, you know, we'll take things slow and we're not dating exclusively and things like that.

And so, you know, as it's progressed, it's progressed as though a relationship progressed, but that hasn't changed.

And so that's kind of where it feels like a situation to.

So when you say progress, is that things have continued to move at a fairly fast pace in a way, but while simultaneously telling each other we want to take it slow? Yes.

And while still agreeing that we're not dating exclusively and we're seeing other people. Are you seeing other people?

I've been on one or two dates, not, you know, I'm just, there aren't a lot of people that I want to be, that I'm interested in at the moment. But you have, you have actually gone on a couple dates.

When was the last time you went on a date?

Like a month ago. And I have one next week.
Good.

But I think the flip side of this is like, he's going on a lot of dates. You know that? It seems like.
Not every day, but like, yeah, I have a good sense.

I have a good, like, I'm a good judge of people and have a good sense for what he's doing. And also.
he's very careful about like, you know, what he'll say he's doing and which friends he'll say.

Like he doesn't lie to me about things, but at the the same time you can't it's obvious how much is he reaching out to you versus you reaching out to him um he reaches out a lot and he wants to you know see me a lot but there's not a lot of like set plans early in advance you guys hooking up yes

made the mistake of doing that on the first date

you know you live and you learn but listen i mean it's kind of i don't want to say it's simple but i i think there's definitely some things you want to stop doing or just be mindful of and i guess more more than anything is you can't be waiting for him, both figuratively and literally, so to speak.

When someone, and whether it's valid or not, or a bullshit excuse, and in his case, it's pretty fresh off of a serious relationship, makes a lot of sense for him to say, I'm not ready to jump in a new one.

That's fair. But you're in a position of power when you tell someone, hey, I'm not ready yet.
You know, that puts you in the driver's seat, right? And

even if it's valid, it puts him in the driver's seat, right?

and if you don't have like a similar situation all you can do is agree to it you know it's like yeah no i agree right like you're that's not your situation if if if everything else about this relationship or situationship he just didn't have an act or a serious relationship you would be more than willing to like be like hey let's i like you let's see where it goes and i i want to commit to this whatever that means yeah you would that you would be down uh i think so it's really hard for me to let myself feel that way because of the situation i'm in sure but but i'm saying like i'm not saying you know you want to get engaged with the guy but you just you would probably be ready to like forego dating other people while focusing on this guy and see where it goes yeah i think so yeah um yeah it's okay to say i'm not it doesn't that doesn't mean you're in love with him i'm not asking you to do that yeah you know but he's not right so i guess what i'm saying is you you guys are hooking up you guys are playing house a little bit you're definitely hanging out more and more i think you need to put a stop to that i think you need to change

the cadence and the frequency in which you guys talk and communicate. And I think you need to say something like, listen, I like you.
Honestly, I'm not going to even pretend that

it's been really cool to hang out with you. And I've, I don't know, you know, you can, I would, I would kind of go couch it a little bit by saying, listen, I.
I have a lot to learn about you.

Maybe you're crazy. I don't know.

Maybe there's just a bunch of flaws that I haven't learned about you yet, but I've really enjoyed our time together, but you're not ready and you have some shit to figure out.

And that's totally okay because I would be too, right? It is really fresh. Maybe you're not totally over your ex yet.
Maybe you are, but either way, you're just kind of not where I'm at.

And I totally get you on a date because you need to figure it out. But

I think we need a slow, I think we need to like really put a pause on

this until you are because otherwise it's just going to get too messy and confusing for me. And I'm just, I don't want that.
Yeah. We, so I did kind of do that at one point.
What does kind of mean?

I said, I said that actually, um, but almost word for word. Yeah.
But I guess the kind of piece is, um, nothing changed.

Nothing changed, but also, well, it changed a little bit there for like a week or two. But also in that conversation, there was, he came kind of came back and said,

I really see this being something long-term. Like, I don't want to take a pause and like lose you and have you lose interest.

Like, I really, and he's kind of reassured me along the way that like I see this being something long term. That was great.
I'm glad you did that. Yeah.

But the mistake you made is he, you let words stop you from enforcing your boundary rather than actions.

Right. And I actually used in the conversation, I mean, I listened to your, to your podcast and I used something that.

you kind of have talked about with boundary saying, you know, like that's his boundary is that he's not ready to date exclusively.

but my boundary it's kind of starting to encroach on my boundary of like i'm yeah i need more out of this yeah um and since then i mean the thing that did change is there's been a lot of actions on his part to make me feel like this is special and like this is something unique and you know that like i'm not in a rotation of a lot of girls and there's you know what if you're in a row what if you're in a rotation of one other girl Yeah,

well, I mean, yes, he said he's seen like going on dates, but that's not necessarily the case. But then there's been other things like we went and stayed at his friend's house at the beach

for a few days together. You know, my birthday, he did, he like went above and beyond to make me feel special.
So there's been a lot of effort to make me feel special after saying I need,

you know, it's kind of interfering with my boundary, but,

but it's, you know, I'm believing those things, but the other action is the action that's not changing. And I asked, like, what will change that?

Like, is it just one day you're going to, you know, wake up and be like, nope, I don't want to see anyone else. And he was kind of like, yeah, I think so.

Well, most likely the action will be you're, you out, you walk away. Yeah.
And that, that's kind of where I'm getting to is like, is it, you know, what you're saying?

Do I have another conversation and take a pause? Do I give an ultimatum? Do I just walk away?

That's one something you have to decide for yourself. I mean, how long it's you've been hanging out for how long?

About like a little over three months. So it's not that long.

I think that you're at a timeline where there's no wrong you can do whatever you want and i think you could be more than justified you know are you 100 confident that the x is out of the picture yes okay um but i i am

like struggling with the fact that like yeah i like you but i also it's hard to you know my boundary is starting to be like it's it's not great to be thinking about you seeing other people and same for me and so i don't know if i like i've never given anyone an ultimatum that's not something i would ever normally normally do.

No, you don't call it an ultimatum. It's again, it's enforcing a boundary.
I actually said this.

We were recapping Vanderpump rules as we do on Files Plus. And there was a scene where, you know, Katie goes to Lisa Vanderpump and she's like, I don't like the way James talks to me.

I'm either quitting or you have to fire him. And Lisa's like, so you're giving me an ultimatum? And Katie's like, yeah.
And I was like.

Katie shouldn't have said, yeah. She should have said like, no, I'm not giving you an ultimatum.

You run your business the way you run your business.

I am just telling you that I can't show up in this environment and I have to do what's right for me and you have to do what's right for your business.

And I'm just communicating to you what my boundaries are. And you can decide for yourself what you want.

It's semantics in the messaging, but at the end of the day, it's it this comes, you're going to get further by not saying, I'm going to give you.

by presenting it like an ultimatum, by just saying, again, like you already kind of did this, a version of this.

And the good news is that, like, he responded in a positive way, which is to acknowledge your feelings, right?

Like, when Nellie and I were kind of doing this thing that you're kind of doing now, I at least, you know, I like to think of myself as a decent guy.

And I would, I had my reasons of why not to be in the relationship, but I knew that I, I could recognize my selfishness. I could recognize the things I was asking of her.

I could recognize that she had a right to be frustrated with the situation, all these things, right?

I didn't ever try to gaslight her, so to speak, or get defensive to the point where I was like, you know, painting myself as the victim in the situation, right?

So the good news is it sounds like you're getting similar vibes from him. Yes.

And so listen, it's just going to come down to, you know, he can recognize that like, yeah, if he can't, he can't say, I think this is special and I think there's something unique about you and then ask you not to feel a certain kind of way about him going on dates with other women, you know?

And you can just be like, listen, I'm not telling you what you should do. I get it.
Maybe you're, you need to play the field.

Maybe you need, like, I just like, it's just kind of getting to the point where I, I'm, it's just not fun for me anymore. And I do like you.

And it's just like, I loved spending time with you on my birthday. And thank you for making me feel special.

But like, you made me feel special in a way that like is kind of like, I'm feeling more connected to you. And like, I don't want to feel special one day on my birthday.

And then on a Thursday, wondering if like you're enjoying the company of another girl.

And like, you know, and you, you just have to communicate it in the most chill way where it's just like, I don't know.

What, how, you know, you don't have to get an ultimatum, but you could recheck in to say, I'm just, I'm, this is getting harder and harder for me. And I don't want to push you.

And if you're not ready, then you're not ready. But I need to pull back a little bit because like, this is just getting harder for me.

And I don't, you know, if I'm really going to start dating more other people, I, I just like, yeah, I, I, I just, maybe you need some time to miss me.

And maybe you need some time to go on some dates, but I, I'm gonna, I need to pull back a little bit and see how he responds to you pulling back.

And like, eventually you're just gonna have to say, listen, you the shit have got off the pot, man up, nut up, whatever you want to do it.

And you can just say, listen, I'm sorry I didn't work out with the last one. But relate, there's a relationships are a risk.
And if you want to take a risk with me, take a risk.

If you don't want to take a risk with me, don't take a risk. We're never going to hang out to the point where we can guarantee each other like this is going to work out without trying.

So if you want to try, let me know. If you don't, you know, go date other people.
And the more matter of fact that you are, and the more you kind of say it like a coach in a way,

like you're unbothered, the more he'll respond. The more, like, the less needy you are.

Yeah. And the less, you know, you don't want to be begging him.
You know, it's just like, hey, you know, I just need to recognize I'm not crazy crazy for feeling this way. Yeah.

I guess, Mike, I, that, that makes sense. And I'll do that.
And the concern I have is, you know, like, what's the

best way or how, how would you respond? I do think there will be like conversation around, you know, yes, I'm getting there. Yes, I, I feel the same way.
Like, yes, this is. This is special.

Like, I, you know, it, I think there's going to be a lot of I feel the same way. I'm just not quite there.
That's fine. And then that's at some point.
That's kind of what I mean, though, is that

you can't let let him do this on his terms. I honestly get it.
Like, I mean, he's only three or four months from an ex-girlfriend.

It's just like, there's this, there's something in your voice that says, that would be crazy for me to already get a girlfriend. Like, that's crazy.
Yeah.

And I, that's why I've been so understanding of it. I completely understand.
I can't. Yeah, but you need to stop empathizing.

You need to take care of yourself. He let him take care of himself.
Yeah. All right.
And it's not crazy for you. to not want a guy to date other people.

He's not crazy to have these voice in his head to say that it would be crazy to do it, but it also wouldn't be crazy for him to just meet a great girl and say, fuck it, I want to date this girl.

His crazy is more legitimate crazy than your crazy. You know, like it's not, it's definitely not crazy for you to not want him to date other women.

And he's just, he's got insecurities and fears about what people might say or what he thinks of himself. Yeah.

But the point is, he's in this kind of weird grace period where he's going to need a kick in the pants, so to speak. And unless you want to wait around for another another six months.

That's exactly what I want to avoid.

I would just be like, listen.

You just empathize. Like, listen, I get it.

I get the position you're in, but I don't care. Yeah.
And then at that point, you know, after this, if he doesn't necessarily, if nothing, if he doesn't necessarily say like, no,

I want to, you know, I just want to take a chance and date you. then I, you're saying like, fully pull back and stop.
You know, like, I mean, listen, before I met Natalie, I was, I was dating a woman

off and on for a period of time. Great girl, beautiful, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and there was some similarities between my relationship with Natalie and my relationship with this other girl.

And like with Natalie, I was very, you know, I mean, I was non-committal for eight years, you know, for a very different reason, you know, for a bunch of different reasons, right?

I didn't have a girlfriend for like eight years. So I, I had a million reasons why I wasn't ready and yada, yada, yada.
And my life on TV was complicated.

Moving out to LA, you know, I always had these excuses, right?

But I liked this girl. I did.
I really respected her.

I liked her enough to tell my friend, you know, to some, some of my friends, I was like, I don't know,

I don't know, do I try, whatever?

And then

one day

I was watching a football game with some friends and

I told her to come. And I think she was kind of excited because she was going to meet some of my friends.
And I forgot what happened, but I basically kind of un-invited her.

It wasn't like an un-invite, but I was like, hey, listen, I don't know, something's up. And I don't know.

Maybe it was an excuse. But she was like, don't call me again.
She was pissed. Yeah.

And so I didn't.

And I was definitely for the week that followed that was very much like

unsure and confused and

this and that. But at the end of the day, I didn't call her.
And I have no regrets, you know?

And,

you know, it wasn't that deep at the time. But fast forward to Natalie, I lost my shit, you know?

I was like, I can't lose this girl, you know?

So he's either going to feel how I felt about Natalie to you, or he's going to feel like I did with this other girl when I was like, yeah, you're really cool and I really enjoy your company, but I don't know.

There's something that's stopping me from really putting myself out there with you. Yeah.

So yeah, like like it's, I don't know how this is going to play out, but the point is, you, but you, you might as well just find out sooner than later.

I mean, if you wanted to, you could let this ride out for a couple more months and have him and build that emotional connection with him. Listen, I'll say this much.

The fact that you guys hooked up on the first date and he's still in the picture means he enjoys having sex with you. So you got that going for you.
I mean, I'm serious.

Like, you know, if he, if, if, if it was just, okay,

he wouldn't be back, he wouldn't, he wouldn't be in the picture. Yeah.
And there is a lot of like emotional, like, he shares stuff with me that I can tell.

It's like, not like about his parents or stuff that isn't easy to share.

What's going to keep this guy really committed to you is the fact that you've been able to build this emotional connection and he also enjoys having sex with you.

Because like most of the guys, you know, they enjoy having sex with some women and they enjoy talking to other women. Yeah.
No, we definitely have both.

Like, I mean, we, we can work, we work from home together for a day and like enjoy spending time talking or doing nothing, all of that.

So yeah,

I would keep having some expectations of him and not act like you're waiting around and sitting around.

Go on this other date. Yep.
You should find a way to let him know without sounding like you went out of your way to let him know that you're going on this date. Okay.
I definitely wouldn't hide it.

Okay. I can do that.
If he's like, what are you doing tonight? You'd be like, I'm going on a date. Yeah.
Not even just like I'm going. I used to say like, I'm going to dinner.
No, I'm going on a date.

Okay.

Okay. And when he asks questions, you could just say, like, listen, I don't want to make it weird, but it's none of your business.
Yeah. Okay.

And if he tries to text you while you're on the date, don't respond. Okay.
You're unavailable. You're on the date.

Whether you're having the worst night of your life or the best night, do not let him know. Okay.
Okay. I can do that.
Yeah. I'm having a birthday party tomorrow.

So he's coming and I'll see him so I can, you know, like talk about what we're doing next week and just mention it or, you know, like let him know without letting him know.

Do you talk almost every day? We, in some form, yeah. We'll text like here and there, but, you know, we're not texting all day, every day.
It's just. I would wait till you get closer to the date.

Okay.

Okay. And whether it's the day before, the day of, or whatever, when he's like, so what do you got going on? Be like, well, I got a date, you know, I got a date tomorrow.

But, you know, just be very casual. Like you're.
Okay.

And that won't seem like I'm trying to make him jealous. Well, trying to, try to, yeah.

Okay. Don't do it in a way that does.
Yeah. Don't do it in a way that it does.
Like make it here. If he asks what you're doing tomorrow or what you're doing, what do you got going on this week?

Well, I got a date on Thursday. Yeah.

But otherwise. Yeah.
And then if he's like, if he gets defended, like, oh, I did, it's like, again, like,

you want to have adult relationship. You want to date other people.
I don't, I don't think we should like hide it.

Like, and then if it bother, you know, it's like, again, I'm trying to give you the space you need. I'm kind of at the point where I don't want to see other people, but you're not ready yet.

So, like, I'm not putting myself on hold. And just be very matter of fact.
Just be very,

you know.

And when

he gets a little reactive, you'd be like, why? I don't, I'm not sure. That confused.
I'm just not sure what's so upsetting. Like, it's going to piss him off the more you tell him he's not ready.

Because when he says he's not ready, it sounds i'm i'm not ready you know it's his choice when you're telling him he's not ready it's like wait you don't get to tell me what i'm ready for and not ready for okay you know and so anytime you have an opportunity to remind him that he's not ready you should do that okay

just never let him get comfortable with this situation Okay, you have the right to constantly be like, this is, this is kind of annoying, but I'm kind of putting up with it for now, but I'm not going to keep putting up with it.

But like, what you do want is him to get more emotionally committed to you and really want you know the the the thing that you bring to his life the person he wants to talk to and open up to and and in the meantime you know be a cheerleader you know things that you really admire about him and you know

yeah

let him know you know be that person who believes in him because those are the things he's not going to want to lose when you when you threaten to walk away okay yeah no that makes sense yeah it's it that's and there's a lot of we both do that for each other so this like concept of like he's doing things to make me feel special it's also like how much weight do i put to like the words and the things he says if he says he really likes me and all the you know yeah i wouldn't the words of like this is going somewhere and i would keep i would roll your eyes right now when it comes to the things he says about how he feels about you i would kind of just be like you know

yeah

I'd rather you not right now. Okay.

Because it just, when you go on dates with other women, which again, you have a right to do, it takes away the things that you say to me. Yeah.
And I, I, I imagine you understand why. Yeah.

You know, just like, be very just pragmatic about this. Okay.
No, that's helpful. Yeah, it's it, I mean, I've been doing what you've been saying, but not to the extent of what you're saying.

And I haven't had like the walk away conversation or anything like that. I, I, yeah, I think you're, I think you're okay.
And it sounds like there's a lot of good stuff going here. So,

you know. Yeah, that's how this started out is wondering if it was love bombing with all the words first and the I see this being something and I see this as so special and unique.

And now it's it doesn't seem like he's doing it just to, yeah, just to keep you around, but you have to maintain, you have to not lose yourself and you have to feel like you are in control and you're not just being reactive to him.

And you have to feel like you are capable of saying no and

pulling back and not being afraid to walk away.

And if when you feel out of control, that's when you really need to stop it. Okay.
Okay.

You know, if you don't feel like you can say no to him, if you don't have the guts to go on dates with other guys and not tell him, if you're so, if you're just constantly afraid about like what he's going to think and feel, then, you know.

That's that's it yeah and how much did I I don't really reach out to him first much but like the just reaching out and saying how like

I wouldn't put too much thought into that okay doesn't matter at this point doesn't really matter I mean you can kind of more from a big picture standpoint how does it feel but yeah I think I think you want to feel like you you build a rapport you know yeah you want to get him really comfortable with having you in his life.

Yeah. Enjoying it.
I mean, I think he's getting pretty, pretty much.

yeah.

And then, and then you pull the rug out from under him and be like, Well, you know, this thing I've been giving to you for free. Well, the you know, the rent is due,

okay, you know, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, all right, we'll take care of it.

Yeah, thank you. All right, bye-bye, bye.

Beautiful Anonymous changes each week. It defies genres and expectations.
For example, our most recent episode, I talked to a woman who survived a murder attempt by her own son.

But just the week before that, we just talked the whole time about Star Trek.

We've had other recent episodes about sexting in languages that are not your first language, or what it's like to get weight loss surgery. It's unpredictable, it's real, it's honest, it's raw.

Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts.