E877 Ask Nick - Married To The Mortgage

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Individual results may vary. Before we get to the next caller, we just want to give a quick trigger warning.
The next call deals with the topic of sexual assault and sexual violence, which is obviously a very sensitive issue to many. So we want to make you guys aware before moving on to the next call.
How's it going? Hi, my name is Tiffany. I am 30 years old and I think my cousin is a villain.
Should I cut her off? Why do you think your cousin's a villain? So there's a kind of a long backstory. Just cut me off a few.
I think it's going too long, but basically it's actually my cousin's wife. My cousin and I grew up very close, like brother, sister.
When him and his now wife were engaged, I spent the weekend at their house and the last night we were all drinking.

He had some coworkers over and one of his coworkers ended up sexually assaulting me. And it was very traumatic.
Everyone knew what happened. I was crying to his now wife.
Well, I'm very sorry that happened. Yeah.
Yeah. When I left there the next day, I kind of heard nothing from either one of them.
No check-in, nothing. Two weeks went by and I was just kind of having a lot of anxiety.
I know their wedding invites were going to go out pretty soon. And I just kind of wanted to know where they stood on if this person was still going to be invited to the wedding.
So I reached out to her and kind of like, retold the story that we both lived. And she was really nice in the phone call and said, like, of course, he won't be invited.
She didn't really give a reason of why she hadn't reached out. And then she kind of abruptly cut me off and said she had to go.
And, but she would definitely reach out in the future and like check in on me, whatever. But kind of confirmed that she had deleted him from the guest list.
This was just a coworker or close friend. Like how? Yeah.
No, not even close at all. Like this actually was the first time I had ever met this person.
And, and so I actually didn't know if he was even going to be invited to the wedding regardless. Um, did you, and again, at your comfort level, um, after it happened, you, you told people that you, did you consider reaching out to authorities or anything like that? Or like, what was, What was your thought process going in? Yeah, it crossed my mind.
Something like that had never happened to me. It was fully a, and we were in a closed bedroom.
So it would have been his word against mine. There was a lot of alcohol involved and I left the room like hysterically crying.
There was no guessing what happened. And everyone kind of was just like, oh, we're really drunk.
You know, like, whatever. And in fact, even that guy refused to leave the house.
It was very odd. So he was like, well, I'll just I'm too too drunk to drive.
I'm just going to sleep on the couch. And so I was just like, the whole situation is extremely uncomfortable.
Very traumatic. I'm so sorry.
That's, and so I'm just kind of, I'm blown away by these people's reaction. Like it, I mean, minus, I guess everyone.
Oh, it gets worse. She doesn't reach out besides the one phone call that i initiated we never talk about it again four months goes by she's a bit of a bridezilla and the whole time i'm biting my tongue so the weekend of the wedding comes and their wedding transportation was running late i had a speaking part in the wedding.
So I was worried about

getting there on time. So a couple offered to drive my then boyfriend and I to the wedding.
And so we get in the car, the couple's in the car and they're like, oh, we offered to drive one other person. He's just going to hop in the trunk.
And I'm like, okay. And in hops this guy.
And I thought I was going to have a pain attack, but I just kind of like sat there and I was like, you know, I can do hard things. Um, I'm in therapy.
I've worked through a lot of this, but at this point it's only been about four months, um, since the assault. And then my boyfriend and him start like chumming it up because my boyfriend knew what happened, but didn't obviously know that this was that guy.
And they're like shooting the shit about football. And I'm just like sitting there trying to not have a panic attack.
But your boyfriend didn't know this was him to be clear. No, to be very clear.
He did not know. did you get around to telling him i i did um and a lot of people had asked have asked me now like did he not notice your energy shift and i was like well i was nervous about having to speak in front of 300 people so like i was already didn't have great energy um so anyway so it was like a 10 minute car ride I jump out of the car and, you know, my boyfriend follows after me and I'm like, that's him.
That's the guy. And my boyfriend wanted to just leave.
He was like, let's leave the wedding. Like, you don't need to be here.
This is crazy. But I didn't.
And I was like, no, I don't want to make a scene. Um, you know, whatever.
So we go to the wedding. I walk up in a church in front of 300 people and talk about love is patient, love is kind.
And, uh, and then decide that I'm not going to let this person ruin my night. So I have a great night.
I don't pay any attention. He's like in my periphery.
We never communicate, never say anything. And that night ends.
And pretty much from there, I just decided that my cousin and his wife don't deserve to be my friend. So I decided to make a boundary.
And at that point, I had decided if they reached out, if they texted me about whatever, I would respond because we're family. We have a very small family, whatever.
That was the easiest thing for me. But I wasn't going to initiate any conversations, any hangouts, whatever.
And that worked for a couple months. And then in the spring, she reached out to me and said, you know, did I do something to you? I feel like we're not as close, which was very shocking that she's pretty self-absorbed and we don't live in the same city and didn't think she would notice.
But I had told myself if she ever asked, I would be honest.

And so I just said, you know, this last year was a lot.

Following their wedding, I ended up going through a breakup like three days later.

So that was a rough time anyway.

And so I said, I mean, not to sidetrack, but why did you and your boyfriend break up three

days after this wedding?

Looking back, I really think that he was trying to just hold on for the wedding because there was just a lot of drama surrounding it and whether or not he was going to be invited. And I think he was just trying to hold on.
He broke up with me three days later and was like, yeah, I don't see a future with you. Bye.
Jesus. I'm just at a loss for words with people to be clear, your cousin and his now wife were informed by you of what this man did.
Yes. The night it happened.
There were, there was no gray area. There was no, you were very clear about what happened.
Yes. I was hysterically crying um and then two weeks later when i had that phone call with her i retold the whole you know story and in fact she was like yeah the guy reached out to us the day after worried that the cops were going to show up and i was like well if he reached out to you the day after why why didn't you then reach out to me? And was her response on that phone call? I'm thinking of someone like a friend or loved one or whatever, my girlfriend told me this story.
I would lose it. And so what was her response? She was just like, oh, that sucks.
What was she saying to you when you confronted her on that phone conversation? So she was really nice. Like she says all the right things, right? What is that? Yeah.
What are the right things? I'm so sorry this happened to you. Of course, you won't be invited to the wedding.
You're our that's disgusting you know whatever but that's like that's like a reaction to someone who like called you the c word yeah like i would have thought that someone would have been like what what should we do about that how can i help you how can i support you do you want to do you want to call the authorities like you Again, I hope my asking you about the authorities, again, whatever. But obviously, I don't know what it's like to be in your position.
Sadly, I know enough of women who have been in that position. What I've learned from those women is the fear and the aloneness that they feel and the fear of people not believing in the fear of retaliation, et cetera, et cetera.
And so I would think that the people who knew about this would, I don't know, would empathize in a different way other than being like, that sucks. Yeah.
I think I got that from my actual friends, right? So it's like, I didn't, I didn't need that from her.

Maybe I expected it from her.

Well,

not that you needed that from her,

but she's literally a witness to an event.

Yeah,

she is.

And so is my cousin.

Yeah.

And this,

and this man is like,

go like,

you know,

just,

yeah.

Yeah,

I know.

Okay.

So anyways,

back to,

she reached out.

Yes. Okay.
And it was like checking in and be like why aren't we close yeah um i should note that while i was obviously closer to my cousin i grew up with him um i have not spoken to him since the night of his wedding and he has not reached out to me ever and the only time time I ever said anything to him, to him about this event, I like mentioned it and passing and he just said, well, that's on you. So I kind of knew where he stood.
So I had already kind of decided like, what's on you. Yeah.
Um, he said that, well, I watched you take him into the room. So that's on you.
and I was like, wow, missed the part where that gave him free reign of my body. But all right.
Fucking crazy. So that's fine, right? Okay, so that's, but at least he, that tells me who you are.
And then we haven't spoken and it is what it is. It's his wife that I kind of am like really struggling with.
What part are you struggling with? Okay, so she reaches out and says like, why aren't we close? And I said, you know, the last year is a lot, just like really trying to work through things on my own. Just need some space.
And that was the wrong thing to say, I guess, because she lost it. And she was like, I'm crying right now.
We need to have a conversation and I'm so sorry. And blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, Nope, we don't need to have a conversation. I'm good.
This is the boundary. This is what I'm comfortable with.
And then from there, it just kind of like really has progressed where she just sends me these like long ranting text messages, like really out of pocket things like, well, he's your only cousin and like all this stuff and you're gonna split up the family and i'm like no i'm not what was your response i mean if i were um i don't know if you're interested in what i would have responded with yeah go for it i would respond you invited my to your wedding i want nothing to do with you guys. Go fuck off.
Okay. Well, here's the problem with that.
Cause that crossed my mind, but I, I hadn't told my parents, right? Like this is not a comfortable thing to talk about. Yeah.
And so at that point, originally when she's like, we need to have a conversation. And at that point she starts out very like, I'm so sorry, tell me what I did.
Tell me what I can do to make it better, whatever. And I'm like, no, not interested in rehashing.
And then that's not good enough. So she just like, keeps going, keeps going.
It escalates to well, maybe we won't come to Thanksgiving. It's like, all right, right.
But then that almost felt like a threat to me so i felt like then i had to tell my parents um or at least some version of it so i did and that's really that was kind of the last straw for me because that is no conversation that anybody should have to have with like their parents especially like Well, I i think the what do you mean by that i mean she nobody wants to hurt their parents no and i know that this wasn't like my action it wasn't my doing but yeah that's the thing that's the job of a parent you know like i have a one-year-old daughter and i i truly hope god forbid um anything close to this happens to her but i certainly hope that i will make my daughter feel safe and comfortable to come to me and natalie yeah i hate that well how did your mom how did your parents handle it first and foremost um my dad just was like really upset and didn't really like i actually wasn't planning telling my dad. He just was in the room and just heard it.
But, um, and then my mom was like, well, did you like, did you at least leave scratches on him? Like, it was just like the saddest conversation. And I was like, I don't know.
Mom's trying to like remember what she learned from law and order and shit. Yeah.
She's like, well, if there was DNA and I'm like, no, no, because at this point it's been like eight months, like it's done. I made my decision not to report and like, whatever.
Anyway. But, um, so it got to the point where my cousin's wife, it's basically every month.
She sends me this like long, really long winded text. Um, and she's like, I was the only person that was there for you.
Whoa, when? And then I called you, I called you twice, like all this stuff. You know, your brain was really fuzzy around that time because of this traumatic experience.
I was like, oh, so this is what I don't love the term gaslighting, but this is crazy. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm really sorry.
It's fine. It's just like she ends up saying.
It's not fine. It's not.
Well. I know you're dealing with it.
I know that you're surviving through it. And yes, you will be okay.
But it's just not fine that you had to experience this or that she did this you know it's not fine that your cousin made you feel like you did something wrong like it's not okay it's fucked up beyond um like it's it's so fucked up that they invited him to the wedding it's so fucked up i mean i think it's fucked up that they didn't like they didn't say whatever you need from us in this moment if you want to call the police we have your like to me that's fucked up i mean so they didn't even do that and then they like for invite them to like i mean if i what it is they didn't believe i mean let's truly like if you really believe someone that this happened you you react how you said. That's a good point.

I don't know.

You're probably right,

but I don't know if that's always the case. I think sometimes

there was a situation.

Natalie

had something happen to her recently.

It was a very difficult experience.

People will learn about it

soon. She did not get the response that she wanted from her mom and i was a bit shocked because her mom has always been a really empathetic and caring and loving mom and then now they communicated like hey like you know little call off guard by your response could really use a mom right now and it's like it was like all of a sudden like her mom was being like a 17 year old girl and it was like so obvious like what her mom needed to do in this moment and yet her mom was like making all these excuses as to why you know she didn't respond the way she needed to respond and again this is nothing like what you know it's

some yeah something to do with her health uh she's okay but uh you know it's just like you she really needed a mom you know and it's like it's not that her you know and then this wasn't about believing like something happened you know it was it was very definitive and her mom just decided to act like a casual friend giving their condolences like oh yeah i'm sorry that happened to you and it's like i'm here in the like what the fuck you know uh and i only bring that up because it's like it was just i think sometimes people want to i think sometimes you know i don't know how the brain works some you know but maybe they didn't believe you there that's definitely one possibility and sadly a likely possibility given just how people react to these things also i think there's a possibility that like they found the truth really inconvenient to their to them yeah you know it's like you know what i'm saying because i think there's a difference between flat out not believing you and like just thinking you're lying you know because sometimes when you know because like they're acting like they don't believe you right that's like you're coming there's a very logical conclusion that there's a disconnect and i almost feel like it's more just inconvenient for them or they feel bad or they don't think, or she feels guilty about how she handled it. You know, maybe she is, there's a part of her, like with Natalie's mom, I think there's a little bit of like, she knew she handled it poorly instead of just like swallowing her pride and stepping up and start being the mom Natalie needed her to be in that moment,

she started saying things like,

well,

I just knew you had a great husband and I knew Nick was like,

well,

what the fuck does that have to do with anything?

You know,

either way.

I mean,

none of this really matters in terms of whether they believe you or not

believe you.

Like,

yes,

to answer your question,

your cousin's the villain.

And I think my hope for you is that you stop wasting any energy on these two people. And you stop thinking that you owe them any more of your energy or time or consideration.
And whatever threats or about family dynamic or peace in the family, that is on them. And I know that you don't want this to i understand get out but i i don't want you to live in fear that's my hope for you and yeah fuck them i mean truly fuck i mean i i do totally get that and obviously i've like you know run this by my therapist and a couple of my friends.
And that is like the general consensus. And I think that is such an easy thing to say, right? It's common sense.
Like this is crazy. The stuff she has said to me, how she has acted towards me is wild.
And, um, I tried for a long time to like keep the peace. Um, and I don't even care about keeping the peace anymore, but I am going to have to see these people.
And I, I guess my two points are like, she's going to confront me when I, if I, whenever I see her in person, when you say you have to see these people, what do you mean? Well, and I really thought about it. I'm like, when, so Thanksgiving didn't see them, Christmas didn't see't see them but she was reaching out trying to see me trying to see me but i i work a job that i don't work normal days um and so i just use that as an excuse and she's already texted me are we going to see you at easter like she just will not stop and i just don't really know i've said everything to her i feel like have you asked her if she believes you i have and she said of course i believe you i was the only person there for you so of course i believe you i'm a good like again i would this is not the time for her to pat herself on the back no it's crazy the text that she sent me she said like i'm not a.
If you believe me, then you wouldn't have invited the person who sexually assaulted me to your wedding. She said my cousin invited him behind her back.
I don't care. I know that was what I said.
Then as a human being, or let alone a woman, I mean, she should have made a scene. If I would, I don't care, my wedding, if I would have known that someone who sexually assaulted a friend anyone at my wedding i would have removed them from my wedding yes and if it and if that created a scene so be it i mean i you know yeah i think any rational human being would do the same but i i think like i've come to terms with that and that's why i don't want to have this friendship relationship with them.
But she just won't stop. Have you asked her to stop? Yes, multiple times.
The only thing I haven't done is just ignore her. I mean, do you feel like your parents have your back? They do.
But? My dad, for sure. um my it's my cousin is my mom's brother son so and they're very very close okay and i i think while my mom has my back i think she has also an idea of like this is the only family we have and not wanting to kind of like fracture that.
It's not an ideal situation. I recognize that as we sit here today, there's no like, well, if you do X, Y, and Z, everyone's going to be happy.
And to me, and again, I hope this is just my opinion and take it with a grain of salt. Like this isn't about keeping the peace.
Yeah. I mean, it's about keeping your peace.
And right now, unfortunately, you're being put in this position with two bad choices, right? Like either like protect yourself from the constant reminder because what all your cousin and his wife now have made themselves is a reminder of your assault. Every time you have to deal with her reaching out, it is a trigger for you.
I can only assume it brings you back to that place on some level. And that's disgusting and totally unfair to you.
And then, you know, and now you're being forced with like dealing with that and like somehow being solely responsible for keeping the peace in the family. And so, I don't know, you said your friends have your back, but your friends almost sound like my position where it's easy for me to say this to you.
I'm not part of your family. And some of these friends, what I'm hearing from you, have your back, but they're not the ones who have to show up to Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter.
And it's your mom who, if I'm hearing you correctly, has your back, but whether your mom is making you feel this way or you're just putting this pressure on you, on yourself, worrying how your mom might react to having to distance herself from her own brother and her nephew because of how your cousins chose to handle this and you not wanting to do that to your mom. I would love for your mom, and maybe your mom would, but I'd love for your mom to take that burden off your shoulders.
Yeah. I just think it's not realistic.
My mom takes care of her parents and then my uncle comes in and helps her and she's like very stressed out about that. And so I just feel like that's not really fair.
None of it is fair, but like none of this is fair. This is not about this is not about fairness.
Yeah. This is about right and wrong.
So you think I just, ignore them, like cut them off. If you're willing and wanting to have

one more conversation with this cousin of yours which sounds like you probably already said all these things anyways and just simply said just to reiterate i was assaulted you invited that person to your wedding i don't really care what you think you did. You in no way gave me the support I felt like I needed.
And again, you invited this person to your wedding. And you can blame it on your cousin or not, but you all just turned the other cheek when he showed up.
And you just hoped that I i would be okay and i think that's unforgivable and totally fucked up and i honestly just want nothing to do with you guys short of you showing me that you completely recognize what you did like and i didn't honestly like you clearly don't because i've gotten tons of like all your messages are full of excuses and justifications. It's like, I'm sorry this happened to you, but I did this.
Or I'm sorry, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Similar, again, the situation with Nellie and her mom.
It's just like, I don't think it's quite registered yet because it's like she, everything out of her mouth is, I'm sorry, but I'm the victim know because she feels bad for like not handling it the way she should have handled it and but that's you know and again i'm not trying to compare you know nanny or mom will get through this it's nothing compared to what happened to you i i just i really feel for you that you've been burdened with this choice uh of of having to keep the peace and protecting yourself from constantly being triggered about your assault? Yeah, that's definitely the worst part. I've definitely worked past and through this assault.
I'm good. I don't think about it all the time.
Obviously, there's going to be triggers. It is what it is.
But every time she texts, like I have this like anxious feeling in my gut.

But I mean, at the very least, I'll have to see them at my grandparents' funerals whenever, you know, I've thought this through like really long. And listen, they are family.
So it might be unrealistic to not ever see them again, but it's very realistic to just set a very clear boundary where like i just do not want you around me i do not want you reaching out i mean i think you should block her for one if she you know she can't text you if you if you're blocked yeah do you think that's dramatic though no yeah i i just unless I'm not understanding your story, I think what's dramatic and disgusting is the way your cousin and his wife has handled this and the, and the way they've put you in the shoes and the fact that she is so self-centered and thinking about how this reflects on her and how this is a reflecting her is all I need to know about this person. And I don't why you would ever want like if she can't have your back in this situation she'll never actually have your back ever yeah no I definitely don't want to be a friend I actually don't want anything to do with her yeah I don't think you should clear I think you should be I don't think I have cousins I don't talk to I know but I have like I flat out ignore them you have a very large family i i have a very small family so this is kind of just like it but i mean sure but you know like large or not i i've i've had those cousins reach out to their parents to complain to my parents and i my response is i don't care yeah and it to be clear i this is not nothing you know my i'm i just find them to be true i don't trust them and i find them to be kind of like drama and but i i'm definitely i'm very good at setting boundaries I am I always have been but like this there's nothing like I just don't my choice

is more

appropriate I'm definitely, I'm very good at setting boundaries. I am.
I always have been. But like this, there's nothing, like I just don't, my choice is more a product.
Yeah. It's, I'm being proactive and being like, I don't trust them.
I think they're a drama. I've had too many situations in the past where letting this person into my life created more drama, but like this is so much, you know, yeah, I just, listen, you will disrupt mean i don't know like i guess you just have to decide what's which is more i listen it will be infinitely more difficult if your mom in any way applies guilt towards you for saying hey mom dad like just so you are aware, this is what's going on with cousin and his wife.
And this is how it's made me feel. And I can't ever be around them.
What they did to me is unforgivable. I hope that I have your support.
And mom, obviously, I'm not asking you not to talk to your brother or anything like that, but please don't ask me to ever be around them. And please protect me from having to engage with them because seeing them is simply just a trigger and a reminder of what happened.
And I hope your parents say whatever you need. Yeah.
You don't think they will? No. I'm sorry.
I think my dad will because, I mean, it's not his family and he's like, fuck them. Well like but i mean it's like not his side of the family and he doesn't like him anyway well and you're maybe your mom has some work to do then yeah i i would agree with that i just i don't i don't want to make her life more difficult i she's your mom it's her job yeah yeah okay so you know i mean you know again i i have some very clear and strong like it's my job to protect my daughter and whatever happens to my daughter is not an inconvenience to me and i love my family and i love my siblings and i love my parents but like nothing matters more than the safety of my daughter her emotions her well-being her physical safety and nothing matters more than the safety of my daughter, her emotions, her well-being, her physical safety, and nothing matters more.
And I look forward to standing up for her, and I look forward to being her in a time of crisis. And that's an opportunity for me to be her dad.
And that is not a burden on me. It is my job.
It is my responsibility. It does not make my life worse.
It makes me sad to hear my daughter might have been hurt and it will break my heart, but that is my burden and my cross to bear, and it's my opportunity to be her dad. That was really sweet.
Thanks, but that's how every parent should be, and it's not your job as a child to carry that burden. It is not your job to look out for the emotional well-being of your mom, specifically when it's your burden and you have to hold on to your pain to protect your parents.
That's not your job. Yeah.
No, I do totally hear you. I think, okay, so if in a situation where I have to see them, I mean, I can't say they can't go to like a funeral or whatever, you know, or.
No, I mean, there, you may be, yeah, listen, the sad reality is, is there may be moments where you're going to have to remove yourself from a situation where otherwise you would want to be because they're probably not going to buy. And that's a sacrifice, you know, but then that, that'll be a choice that, you know, you'll have to make.
And, but I think it's okay for you to make that, you know, I'm not telling you what you should do. I just want to give you permission to do it without any guilt of how you, how it might affect other people.
If you don't want to go to a Christmas party that they're going to attend, then you shouldn't have to go and you shouldn't have to feel bad about it. And if you want to go, then you should have the right to go.
But no one should be pressuring you or trying to convince you or making you feel bad for setting a boundary on this topic. Yeah.
I think my mom's hoping that I just kind of like get over it. That's fucking crazy.
But it's not that I'm, you know, it's not that I'm not over it. I am over it.
I've just made my- You don't ever have to be over it. That's an, I mean, I- Yeah.
I hope that you are healed as much as you can be from this experience, but you don't have to get over it, you know? Yeah. Okay.
So I guess in conclusion, I'll just, I think I'm going'm gonna try to just ignore her first and then if she continues to just rantingly text me then i'll block her why can't you just why just block her what what's i mean what do what you want but what's the difference what what are you hoping happens and and i guess what is your don't want to start a fight of like um oh my gosh she blocked me and blah like i don't know it just like seems like unnecessary drama that I don't want to start a fight of like, oh my gosh, she blocked me.

I don't know.

It just seems like unnecessary drama that I don't feel like dealing with.

You're not creating the drama.

No.

And you're not blocking her to start drama.

Right?

I mean, that's not your intention.

No, I want her to leave me alone.

Correct.

And she's not.

And her texting you emotionally affects you.

It ruins your day, maybe multiple days.

It consumes your energy when it brings you back.

These are all incredibly unfair things that are happening to you.

So that's why you're doing it.

If you were just like, you know what?

I just want to fuck with her because she pissed me.

If you're doing it to be petty, don't do it. But I don't think you're doing it to know if you were just like you know and i just want to fuck with her because she pissed me if you know if you're doing it to be petty don't do it but i don't think you're doing it to be petty what i hope for you is that you just do things for yourself without worrying about how it's going to affect other people specifically when it comes to this and how other people react to you setting your boundaries is a them problem and you you know if she wants to throw a fit i mean listen i i guess i can only assume that i mean do you think okay let's you block her right she gets mad she throws a fit whatever she can't rage text you anymore because she's blocked uh you know block her on email block her on instagram block her across the fucking board uh so what could she do i get could she go to other family members and say tiffany blocked me sure but like is she really gonna force your hand to explain to people why well that's how i felt about whether or not to write it for this podcast because everyone's like do you really want to go on a podcast and talk about this like what if she hears it I'm like well one I don't I don't know if she will or not but two that's not my problem like this is my story and like also no one else is gonna know because it's not like she's going around telling people like this is the shitty thing I did to my cousin you know like so I don't really I don't really care if she goes around and tells people

i think it because i don't know what version even if she changes the truth there's no version that she could tell that doesn't make her look shitty yeah i mean even if all this guy did was grope you i would have just as strong of his opinion and the fact that this guy was so much worse yeah and to your point

I just like your cousin

and his wife are on fucking Mars

I wish opinion and the fact that this guy was so much worse it i yeah i mean to your point i just like your cousin and his wife are on fucking mars i wish they'd stay there like no but i wouldn't have to you know they're talk to them yeah i just um i don't know i'm really sorry that you have to deal with this it sucks that's life it's not fair it's okay i yeah no i know life you know and you will in and i'm i'm i'm clearly you are resilient and and that's a it's a it's a value that i core value that i value the most and so i'm glad you have that but i i think it's also okay for you to just say that's fucking terrible I don't deserve this. And if you want to talk about fairness, the only one who's not being treated fairly is you.
And that's okay for you to say that and acknowledge that. And it's okay for people to give you that empathy.
It's just not your job to be the strong person here. And it's like, what I'm hearing from you is like, you have to be strong for everyone else in your family so that they're not inconvenienced by your assault.
Yeah. Well, it's not their fault.
I got assaulted either. It's their fault.
No, it's their fault for how they're choosing to handle this. Tragedy happens, sadly, to us all or our loved ones.
and in that moment we can either decide to be there for them in the best possible way we know

how or we can act like it's inconvenient for us. Let's say River, for some reason, down the line, gets addicted to some kind of drug or something.
I could either say to myself, all right, how do I be there and help my kid?

Or I could worry about how that's going to reflect on me to my community. Yeah.
You know, like that's a choice I can make. Sadly, a lot of people make the latter choice.
I don't think I will. That's the choice.
You know, it's not anyone's fault other than that man for what he did. but how these people are reacting to you being a victim is a choice they are making and they should be accountable for their choices i agree and you have the right to hold these people accountable including your mom yeah yeah sometimes tough love is the only way to get through to people like again bring up nower's mom confrontation i'm very confident they'll get through this and i'm very confident her mom is going to finally realize that she really fucked up and truly give the appropriate response to natalie that she should have but it didn't it didn't happen without like without some tough conversations between nal and her mom and quite frankly from me as well.

And that's okay.

And sometimes you just need to say the thing and in the heat of the moment, you're not going to get the reaction you want.

There's going to be some defensiveness and things like that. But my hope for your mom, of all people, is to that she processes what's happened, takes her feelings out of it and says, my only job right now is to be a mother to my daughter and everything else is inconsequential.
Yeah. I agree with that.
All right. Okay.
I got solved the locker. Was this helpful? It was.
I just, I just needed a, like a different perspective of someone who actually doesn't know the people and who doesn't know me. Cause obviously all of my friends are just gonna be like, fuck her.
She's horrible. And I, I get that.
I just wanted to kind of make sure that I'm not overreacting or being emotional. Like, I don't, you have the right to overreact.
You have the right to be emotional. Like we're we're talking about assault here and i think what's what makes me so sad for you is that you've been made to feel that your feelings about this are wrong and whatever you're feeling is totally fine it's totally justified and the fact that these people again they're not the ones who did what he did to you, but they are accountable for their choices.

And you have the right to feel a certain way about the choices that they're making without any guilt or shame around it.

Yeah, I think that's true.

All right.

I'm really sorry that you had to deal with all this, and I'm sorry what happened to you.

Thank you.

All right. Take care.
Bye. Bye-bye.
really sorry that you had to do the deal with all this and i'm sorry what happened to you thank you all right take care bye bye bye this show is sponsored by a better help therapy people we know how important it can be i say i'll say it over and over and over take care of your mental health people i have a friend who was like you know you know they were let's just say they had their ups and downs emotionally, some stuff, some drama going on. They were having some conflict with other people in their life.
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My name is Camilla. I'm 29 years old and I'm letting my boyfriend down every day by not buying us a house.
All right. So did I mess that up? I did.
No, that was perfect. But I'm more perplexed by how are you letting him down by not buying him a house? Where does he fit in the responsibility of buying a house?

Yeah. Why is this your fault? So my boyfriend is 36 and he works in the service industry as a bartender.
So, and I work in finance, I make around mid six figures. So talking to lenders, it makes kind of no sense for him to be on the mortgage.
It makes sense for just me to be on the mortgage. And he has about 40 or 50,000 saved in like CDs.
I think he had when he was younger that he'll put the deposit down for. But I guess the idea that he's decided is since I'm already all on the mortgage, it just makes the most sense that I take over the full mortgage until he recoups that 40 or 50,000.
Are you wanting to buy a house? I do, but the kind of situation is, so about two years ago, I moved home, but before then I was living in a city across the country and in my twenties probably didn't make the best financial decisions. So I ended up in around like 55,000 of credit card debt, which that's why I moved home was to live with my family and get out of debt and not pay rent, which is actually when I met my now boyfriend and I'm almost out of debt.
So I'll be fully out of debt in June, but he's not really happy about the fact that I'm asking us to wait until September. He wants to buy, honestly, if he could, he would want to buy it like this week, but he can't afford it.
Not without me. No, you're not married.
And I can't afford it without him. No.
So we're planning on getting engaged soon. Like we've talked about that and everything, but we both kind of like our living situation is like living with roommates.
Like he lives with a roommate. I live with him and don't pay rent.
I pay the groceries since I'm trying to get out of debt, but he's just like ready to get out and he feels very against like renting again. Why? I feel like it's just because, I mean, I kind of agree in the sense that like, I think we're just both ready to have have our own space but i think to him buying a house kind of signifies like starting our lives and like kind of getting everything together i would love if your boyfriend were on this call um this is a tale as old as time that a lot of people in your position feel very justified for the feelings that they're feeling, but just pragmatically speaking.
My sister, well, years ago,

this is like right before the housing crisis of like 2007 2008 her then fiance so you're not even engaged yet so her her they bought a house together then the then the housing crisis happened and then they subsequently uh they broke up Partly because had like a gambling problem and all that other shit but um either way they broke up because people break up and it was a financial nightmare for her because you know he had so many money problems they couldn't sell the house because the house wasn't worth what they paid for because the housing market crashed i'm not necessarily saying that's going to happen now. But love doesn't conquer all.
And there's a lot of different ways to make two people in a relationship feel like they're taking the next step in their relationship and feel like they're advancing their relationship. Moving in together and certainly buying a house together.
What it really is, is unnecessary pressure on a relationship that is trying to grow and evolve. And when you add unnecessary pressure to a relationship, it can often ruin a relationship.
If you both can't afford to buy a house without each other, I wouldn't buy a house. I think if you're married, buy a house together.
If you can afford to buy a house on your own, then you should buy a house and you can decide whether you want to charge him rent or not. You know? Yeah.
When I bought my first- I don't know how much you would go for that. Well, you've heard me say the've heard me say, you know, the three B's, the broom, the budget, and the bed when it comes to like the relationship.
You know, if one of those three things are in disconnect, that's often means doom for a relationship. So if you can't have tough discussions about, you know, the broom, whose responsibility is it to do what in the house, to clean the house, pay the bills, get groceries, mow the lawn, you know just like who does what that's the broom the bed you know that speaks for itself in terms of are you guys connecting in the bedroom where you both feel like your needs are being met and then the budget you know like and the budget is often the one that has it requires the most difficult conversations because especially in your case you make more money than your your boyfriend then you have to worry about him feeling emasculated and all these other variables and things like that.
But if you want to be with this man and you want to have a successful relationship with this man, you two are going to have to have these tough conversations. And he doesn't have any leverage here.
He can't afford the house. So he doesn't have to be okay with it.
I mean, he can choose to break up with you, I guess. And I imagine that would make you sad.
And I'm not saying you want that. If this man is going to break up with you because you're, you know, and again, you're someone who's already experienced financial hardships from poor financial choices.
This would be, in my opinion, another poor financial choice. And I don't think guilt and accommodating your boyfriend should be the reason you make another bad financial choice yeah which is kind of what i brought up too much so i wanted to wait until like september the fall and where i then can at least have based on my budget i would have at least 20 000 saved up which would make me feel better going into a home and everything but and i we I, we like do talk about it nonstop and like, but it kind of always ends up being a fight.
Like our most recent one was, um, so I'm going cross country back to where I used to live for the week in like two weeks to go see my friend. Cause she's having a baby shower.
I'm hosting it. And it's kind of just been, I've known this since the fall.
I've budgeted for it. I've used coins.
I'm staying at her house. And anytime it kind of gets brought up, he's kind of like, you know, you know, if you weren't going out there, you weren't, you know, traveling or doing this and like, maybe we could be here.
But like, he's also at this time we're having this fight. He's in another country with his friends and i like kind of brought that up saying how it wasn't really fair that like i'm not able to go do anything without him making me feel guilty for like finances but goddamn bartender which you know like all the respect in the world for the service industry but that's a choice he's making yeah you can make a lot of money, but I don't know what his education or his talents are.
I'm guessing if he wanted to make more money, he could choose other professions. And if he doesn't want to, that's fine.
But he doesn't get to place that burden on you because you're in a profession that makes more money. My ultimate point is either you guys are going to get married, assuming there's no prenup or anything like that that either you guys are going to get married or you're not going to get married someday and if you get married all of these conversation about who pays for what or not are irrelevant it just everything becomes both of yours depending on what state you're in and things like that in terms of down payments like california is a little different like but and if you don't get married then you absolutely want to make sure you're making these smart financial choices and not thinking about love when making these choices or upsetting your partner because then that's when shit really hits the fan because if you do break up no one's nice no one's accommodating and you're left you're going to be left with the bill and you're going to be shit out of luck and the burden is going to fall on you because you're the one you know who has the means and he's going to bail on you and it does like sometimes like i'm hoping it's kind of just because like once i'm out of debt these conversations kind of minimize because it kind of feels like anytime like if i I travel, if I go do anything, if it's only, if it's just something I do for myself, though.
So like I kind of brought up when we got in the fight, like, okay, but you were fine with me spending all this money when we just traveled a few weeks ago together, where I spend way more money than I spend on my own traveling. But for him, he said, it's okay because I'm spending the money on us instead of like, I'm wasting kind of the money just like on me and setting us back for something that I'm just doing for me and not for us.
In my opinion, I don't think your boyfriend has any right to have an opinion about how you spend your money and vice versa. I don't think you have a right to really have an opinion about how he spends his money you guys can have conversations about the goals you have as a couple but like those expectations should be equal like he doesn't get to be like well you make more money then like it's really your job to save it's not my job to save i guess I guess his feeling is like, he already did that part.
So he's like, I already saved, which like he's had this money saved for a while, like the 40 or 50,000 he's putting down. So his feeling is like, I did my part.
Like now it's up to you and you're not like fulfilling your half by doing these things. So he feels like he can do what he wants with this money because he's already saved the part that we need i think it would be crazy for you guys to buy a house together that's yeah my family thinks that sometimes i mean you're i mean you you better get married yeah i mean i think i mean we're planning on getting engaged in the next like three months like by the time we'd buy a house we'd at least be engaged which sure but like you know i mean i've been engaged through multiple times i'm not kidding you know been engaged once before so there you go i mean i'm just saying like you know i just i think you're you're i get it like these are not fun conversations to have with your boyfriend or girlfriend because it feels very unromantic and it feels like but like couples should not be afraid to acknowledge reality.
And the reality is like for every couple, if you guys don't do the work every day to keep your connection strong and you know, then things might go south. And there is no reason for you guys to make financial bets on your relationship just because.
Because that's what you're doing. You're making a financial bet on your relationship.
You're going to Vegas and you're saying, I'm going to bet $50,000 will never break up. Yeah.
That's what you're doing. It's just hard because I feel like that's, like, it's the only thing that he, like, really wants to talk about.
So it's like, if I'm not. And I feel guilty because i do know like i feel bad like it is like something that i always have like a lot of guilt on is like the debt thing like and that's why i like made it clear to him like before i got married like he wanted us to get engaged like earlier but i told him like i don't want to get engaged i don't want to get married i don't want to do any of that until i have my debt figured out like i don't want to bring that into a relationship or have someone else have to handle that well i mean and i've worked hard on the marriage part i get but like you know maybe that's where you can you know again i don't don't get engaged if you don't want to get engaged but maybe maybe you've driven maybe you've set this very rigid boundary that maybe you don't need to set specifically when it comes to getting engaged as it relates to your debt.
You know, if you're like, hey, I really want to deal with this. I guess if I'm trying to empathize with your boyfriend, you know, you're like, I don't want to get married and I don't even want to get engaged.
He's trying to find other things to feel like this relationship is advancing, right? And you've you've taken the table so maybe he's just in his mind decided that well buying a house together makes will make him feel more secure in a relationship maybe his reaction to all this well i find to be like surprising if i'm again if i'm trying to put my not a therapist but if i were trying to like invoke what I think my therapist would say to me and shit, is that like, maybe he's got his own abandonment issues. And the fact that he definitely does.
So like, you don't want to get engaged. You don't want to get married.
You're like, no, no, no, no, no. On all these like other things that he would otherwise do to advance the relationship.
You can get engaged and break up. I understand the marriage and the debt part, but like, you could sign a prenup too.
You could sign a prenup. Maybe I think when it comes to debt, you know, where it's just like my debt is my debt.
I don't know. Maybe creditors.
I don't know. Maybe that's a conversation for a lawyer, but there's things you can do.
But so maybe you have to offer him something. I think it's a lot, it's a lot smarter to get engaged than buy a house together.
Yeah. I feel like he definitely does.
Like, I think there's two reasons he kind of puts so much pressure on the housing is one. Like I like in our relationship, I like was the one who like broke up with him at one point.
Sure. Because he wasn't, you know, he wasn't basically being the partner that I needed him to be.
And I made it super clear that like, if he wasn't, then I couldn't be in the relationship. And then when we got back together, I feel like there's still that feeling of sometimes he feels like insecure about it.
And then I think also because being like him being older and like being like in bartending and everything, I think he feels like, okay, well, you know, I need to show like my friends all bought houses now and they all have kids and they're all married. So it's like, he's wanting those things.
And I try to remind him, like when you were 29, you weren't in the financial spots by a house. Like when you were 29, like you weren't doing those things.
Yeah. So it's.
I think there's a little bit of abandonment, anxiety or whatever going on. And I think some of his response to these conversations is there's a deeper issue here.
But I think I just more than anything, I need you both to recognize that minus the love aspect, marriage is a contract. And so is buying a house.
Engagement, you don't have to sign anything. So make decisions you that, that are much easier to get out of decisions that require lawyers to get out of.
You better be sure you're ready. Yeah.
Especially with me being on the mortgage completely on my own. Yeah.
And if you get married, then the house becomes half his anyways. So it's just like, he doesn't do well though.
When I bring up these like conversations, I try to to be like super pragmatic but he kind of just tends to jump more into like emotions and then it kind of just all bows back on like okay well you're you put us in a specific position by doing whatever you wanted when you were in your 20s by like going out and like i didn't do that like you get to like do whatever you want and pay for it. Which is, I think, typical.
And he sometimes uses it as a reason as to why I shouldn't go do things. And I think sometimes it's because he doesn't really like, he doesn't really like when I leave him.
Have you guys considered couples therapy in general and to talk about this issue? So he, like when we broke up, I i brought up he brought up wanting to do couples therapy but then once we got back together that kind of fizzled out and i feel like it was just something he said to like probably make me feel comfortable if i came back together well i i i don't my guess is uh you've already tried and despite what i'm saying to now, maybe I'm just going to reaffirm your position and make you feel confident to hold your ground. But you're trying to resolve this conflict with your boyfriend.
That's why you called. You're trying to figure out how there's a huge disconnect between the two of you right now.
And despite what you and I feel, your boyfriend isn't understanding, right? So you and I can agree all we want, but your goal isn't for you to be right. Your goal is to be happy with your boyfriend.
And listen, if he wants to come on, I can try to articulate my point of view, but like, maybe it'd just be easier for you guys to look up a couples therapist about this particular issue. Sometimes, you know, lots of times couples join couples, you know, it's like the worst time to get, I mean, there's no bad time to get a couples therapist, but the most common time is like, like you said, it's like when you're about to break up or, you know, you've already broken up and someone's trying to get back together.
And it's like, usually that's too late there. I always say like therapy is way more effective when you treat it like a bicycle helmet or a safety belt rather than treat it like reconstructive surgery.
Yeah. And so.
He doesn't typically believe in therapy. So I feel like that's why he's.
Listen, he's going to have to work with you, you know. So right now.
I feel like I normally just kind of go with what he says. It's easier if he gets really combative and really defensive.
That's not going to get any better if you don't deal with that. So like marrying this person who you're describing as someone who either gets too emotional or too combative for you to try to get any resolution with him.
You just give up, is not a recipe for success. You can deal with it right now, but that will only lead to resentment.
So you need to figure out how to deal with difficult conversations that trigger your boyfriend, especially when he gets emotional. You need to figure out how to resolve those types of issues with your boyfriend whatever those issues are or this or this relationship won't is doomed you know yeah it's just a matter of time i don't know when the bomb will go off but it will eventually go off if you can't learn how to deal with this with your boyfriend so my advice is to you guys need a third part i mean because clearly there's more going on than just like a disagreement about you know how to buy this house there's some abandonment issues probably going on things like that and he is leading with his emotions while you're trying to lead with your brain so to speak and you're trying to be pragmatic about this and he's making this about like how this makes him feel as a man and how insecure this makes him feel in this relationship etc etc and for him those feelings are incredibly valid and while valid as they might be it doesn't make your position wrong yeah and it's like hard because he's i'm trying to like understand like validate like okay you like you feel this way like i understand you feel this way but

he doesn't even understand why he feels that way so then he's just like no i just want to own a house like i just want to start a life together and like he's like i want to be with you i want to like have kids get married and he wants and that kind of like so he wants kids like pretty soon so i think that's why he also wants the house and everything and sometimes i'm like try, try to remind him that like, I'm still only 29. Sure.
And you can say, listen, I want all those things too. But, you know, you guys have to maybe acknowledge.
It's only been in my relationship with Natalie where we can acknowledge a disconnect. Before that, I would just fight with my partners, you know, and I would try to be right and they would try to be right and we would fight.
And the longer we tried to be right, the more we would fight. You guys need to just sit there and be like, we're just not on the same page here.
And what we can agree on is that we want to get on the same page. We're disconnected.
We want to connect. How do we do that? Because we've already agreed we don't agree.
So let's not relitigate all the things we don't agree on over and over and over because like you need a third party someone needs to come in and hear let let both of you speak because now what's you know now what's happening with you guys because you've already you guys have heard your arguments over and over you guys are just tuning each other out he says and you're just like yeah i don't hear you whatever you talk and he's like yeah whatever i hear you and he's just waiting to respond and you're just waiting to respond a good couples therapist will play referee make sure that the other person's listening check in pay attention to like when he is speaking a good therapist is going to look at you and watch your body language and like pay attention and and about whether you're actually hearing about what he is saying and if he and if he or she senses that you're not they'll check in and then vice versa because right now you guys are just throwing punches yeah it's not like we're not going anywhere because i just feel like we're just having yeah same conversations that lead to huge blow up fights. And usually what happens in these situations with what you guys are doing, if you don't actually figure out how to reconnect, then what actually happens is someone just gives in.
And they don't give in because their mind has changed. They give in because they're just tired of fighting.
And they're just like, whatever, I guess. And they convince themselves that they're okay with giving in when deep down they're really not.
And that's what leads to resentment. I feel like that's what happened last time when we broke up was that I just kept giving in, kept being like, all right, just easier.
Cause again, he is so hyper motion. I really typically don't care about a lot of like, now I don't care a lot of things, but like he sometimes cares so much it's just easier if i just like give in and that's but then it like slowly i just kind of like started disconnecting from the relationship to the point that i was like i didn't feel anything i just needed to leave yeah so you've already broken up once with this man for doing exactly what he's doing and he's not it doesn't sound like he's made many improvements in this department you just basically got a break well and then when i left he was hardcore like agreeing with us saying i was right that he shouldn't have done any of that but like he was going to go to therapy that he'd like have it all figured out that he was going to like work on all these things and i i was right the whole time that like he would never put me through that again and you know there were some changes some changes.
Because there are things that maybe you're doing wrong here. It's not about right or wrong.
It wouldn't surprise me to come to find out there are maybe ways that you could communicate things differently that don't trigger him, period. Or whether you trigger him, you know, make him feel abandoned or whatever, you know, bring out this child in him that gets hyper emotional.
I'm sure you both could communicate better with each other. And so, listen, if you go to him and say, listen, I really want to figure this out with you.
We're obviously not seeing eye to eye on this big decision. These are huge decisions for us.
And I would like us to go to a couple's therapy so that we can try to get on the same page and honestly deal with this issue but maybe we'll just learn how to better communicate with each other and if he shuts you down there then your response would be like listen i don't know what to tell you you're not like i don't believe in therapy what does that even mean this is like you're not asking them to like change religions like what do you don't have to believe in therapy to go to therapy you know just go yeah like you call it therapy call it like a middleman like but you know it's a therapy or we could just like call up this podcaster who's not a therapist we you know like or you know whatever someone needs to mediate and it's you know yeah it could be a friend it could be a parent but like it's better off when it's someone who should be unbiased and someone who's not someone's side so no one can be like well it's your mom and or it's your friend or you know it's the podcast you listen to it should be a third party person and if he is unwilling to do that then he's giving you nothing he's giving you nothing you i mean you have he has to give you something and i don't want to get back to that point and i've like brought that up and like you know like and i like try to not bring up like if we like get to these points i'm like we're going round around or he'll be like oh like are you just gonna break up with me again or are you just gonna leave me again i'm like no i don't like that it's not my plan i don't want to break up with you i want to like like this is what i'm talking like i try to explain that when we get to that point like this is this is why i left and began yeah i don, I don't want more. I don't want to break up with you.
I really, I want to marry you, but we have to make sure I want, but I want us to create an environment that gives us the best chance to last because I don't want to marry you for a period of time. And I want us, us to both be happy.
I think you, what you should try to do for the foreseeableable future when you're in conflict with your boyfriend is focus on using we and us language. Not like you do this and I do this.
I wouldn't even engage in the house conversation. The fight you should fight right now is getting the two of you into couples therapy.
And you should do that by saying us us and we. I would like us to get married someday.
I want us to survive that marriage. I want us to be more connected.
I want us to be on the same page. And I think we should go to couples therapy so that we can be closer together.
And if he wants to fight you on that, then you're going to have to ask yourself, this guy is actually willing to be in a partnership with you? Or is he expecting you to like constantly concede because he's not willing to do the work and emotionally regulate himself? I feel like it's like he's sometimes just so unhappy. That's where like as his partner, I want to make him happy.
You can't make him happy. You can't.
Yeah. It's like, it's like if he has a a house then he'll be happy like he's like oh i'm like unhappy because you know we're here because like you know we live close to your family or because like you know we don't have a house or because like i have to have roommates like everything will be good like once you can get it together and get me out of this situation yeah but that's not how it works i mean you're if that's really how your boyfriend thinks then he has some growing up to do and quite honestly it sounds like he may need some individual therapy but i think step one is get you guys into couples therapy and get him maybe more comfortable with that so he doesn't feel like you know if you suggest therapy that's gonna make him feel like he's the person in the wrong and he needs to do the work or whatever but like you're in therapy i don't know uh you know yeah so yeah he's i know you love him i know you want to make this work but he's got to work with you and so right now i think you should give him the opportunity to work with you about getting more connected everything you're describing about how this is being handled is a recipe for disaster yeah i feel like we're just like slowly going right back to where we were when I left.
And I don't like, I love him so much that I don't, I want to marry him like that. It's like 1000% my goal.
Yeah. I believe it.
I love ain't enough. You know, it just isn't.
People have to do their part. You can't, you, you cannot do his work for him.
You can do 100% of your half, and he has to be willing to do his. Saying I love you and saying I want to marry you and saying I want to have kids with you is not enough.
Those are just words. You have to show up every day.
You have to look in the mirror and ask, how could I do better? How can I be more accountable? What role can I play? And again, that's only your part. And I'm sure you have improvements to make in this relationship as everyone does.
But right now I'm hearing a lot of like, you're trying to do that. And he's just leading with his emotions constantly.
And when he feels triggered or he feels like unsafe in this relationship because of his abandonment issues, he plays, he uses that as a trump card over everything else. And you don't know what to do.
And he turns into this like child like self and you often just concede because he's throwing an adult temper tantrum and again for small things yeah like you can get by doing that for a period of time but as it's always are which has already been the case in this relationship it runs its course yeah i feel like it's like i'm scared that it'll bring like i want to bring up couples therapy and i have like for a while remember I told myself before, like when this, like when we got back together, I was like, all right, if we're going to get to the point of engagement, then I want to do couples therapy. Like if we get engaged or like, I want that to be a goal.
But I feel like sometimes like he sees it as like a direct attack that like, I'm telling him that I'm not happy and I'm going to break up with him. You guys both need to, and if he can't, he needs to do some work.
no relationship is going to survive if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if,

if,

if, that I'm telling him that I'm not happy and I'm going to break up with him. You guys both need to, and if he can't, he needs to do some work.
No relationship is going to survive if the two of you don't create a safe space for one of you to acknowledge sadness, disappointment, frustration in the relationship because that's inevitable. You have to be able to come to your partner and listen, I have embattment issues.
Natalie has embattment issues. We're both fucked up.
We have our shit that we deal with. But what we've worked really hard on is creating an environment where we can come to the other person and say, hey, I'm upset right now.
This is bothering me. And yeah, it's easy to get defensive.
And sure, we're all human. But like you have to create a space where that's okay.
if it's not okay then there's no connection there's no communication there's just resentment everything that you're describing is going to lead to it already has clearly led to resentment and it's going to lead to even more yeah and it hasn't before so it's just it's difficult because like you said the tantrums are hard because i just don't do emotions that well. They just stress me out and they give me anxiety.
And then I just would rather just shut it down, shut it up, make it happy. Just don't.
All you can do is go to him and say, I love you. I love us.
We have, as all couples do, our problems. But I want to feel more connected and I want us to feel closer to each other.
And I want us to go to couples therapy to work through some of our big disconnects, one being buying a house, but honestly, just in general. And it's not because I'm thinking about breaking up with you.
It's because I want to marry you. And I think we could be a stronger couple than we are.
And we should both want that for us. And the more you you say we and us the less likely you will make him feel like it's you against him so maybe some of your link like i think about it i really think about we and us when you're talking to him make sure you're saying the word we and us as much as possible speak slowly just like when i'm saying oh here's what you should say i'm consciously being all right we us you know what i'm saying like you can do it and that really matters because when he hears we he hears us you know you know what i'm saying he wants to hear us us us we we we we we i made natalie watch an old movie called far and away last night it's a great movie you ever seen it's with nicole kinman and tom cruise it's made in the.
I was like, you got to watch this. And there's a scene in the movie, like the characters, whatever.
She's rich. He's poor.
They fall in love. But the whole movie, she's kind of like mean to him.
He's secretly in love with her, but she's always been mean to him. And he has an opportunity.
And she goes, this could get us out of here. And he goes, us? And there's this moment.
And she's like, well, I mean you, but he was so happy to hear the word us because when she said us, that meant they were together. So for a guy who has a lot of abandonment issues, the more you can say us and we, it will go a long way with him.
I promise you. And especially when you're pitching couples therapy, you know, if you say, Hey, I think we should go to couples therapy because like you and I are just not getting along,

that's going to trigger him.

Yeah.

If you say, I think we should go to couples therapy

because I just want us to continue to be closer.

And when I want us to get married

and I want us to be stronger

and that's my biggest priority.

And I think we should do that together.

Much better chance of not triggering him. Yeah, right now it gets blown out and i mean i know he like will never leave me which is why i'm like i try like almost to a fault which is why he'll be an emotional terrorist and push you away until you're forced to break up with him again yeah and then i'll feel like it's just like we're right back to square one no so listen he he's got to do his part and you can only do a hundred percent of yours but there it sounds like there's some things you can do try to implement those and see what happens uh but buying a house before you two are married go to vegas and bet fifty thousand dollars in your relationship you're're doing the same goddamn thing.
Yeah. Especially because we want to move to very far away from family and friends.
And then it's even potentially more because if you do break up, lawyers, I don't know, last time I heard, they're pretty expensive. Therapy's much cheaper.
I'm an accountant, so I should be more better understanding financial aspects. At, I understanding like financial aspects.
At work,

you're making financial decisions without making emotional decisions.

This year,

you are incorporating your emotions into your finances.

And that's why we often don't take our own advice or this is very emotional

for you.

It's,

it's love.

It's,

you know,

so it's,

it's much harder for you to make the same decisions you would maybe make for

your clients because you're not emotionally invested in these decisions. You're just, one plus one equals two.
But when it comes to love, you're like, I don't know. I mean, one plus one usually equals two, but what if it equals three? And that's what your boyfriend is constantly trying to convince you, that one plus one equals three.
Yeah, and I feel like it's definitely like since I make the money, he really doesn't have any like masculine masculine issues on like oh like she makes more money it's more the you make more

money so like what's his long-term plan you should be able to do this is he i mean and does he have

that like is he gonna be the stay-at-home parent yeah so we've talked about that where it's like

that would be once we have kids like that would be his role well that's cool she's fine with like

he would rather do that and i the idea of staying at home with children actually like i love kids

Thank you. that would be once we have kids like that would be his role well that's cool which he's fine with like he would rather do that and i the idea of staying at home with children actually like i love kids but that would make me nauseous like i love my career so that works but yeah but until then but you're not married yet and like that's a great plan if you guys get married but like he doesn't get to use that as a way to like put the financial burden on you like he always says like It's like you told me like you'd retire me you told me like you would like i mean like handle all this and now you're not he needs to grow up and i'm trying to like i mean i'm almost out of debt your boyfriend has some work he needs to do in my in my humble opinion you don't what age are you just kind of stuck i don't't know.
I don't know. People can change.
But he has to be willing to change. So if he's not willing to do the work, if he's not willing to go to therapy, certainly if he's not willing to go to couples therapy, you're eventually going to have to ask yourself, is he willing to change? Because he's not going to change for you.
He has to change for himself. He has to want to do this.
Yeah, he may force your hand. And that's something you're going to have for you you know he has to change for himself he has to want to do this yeah he may force your hand and you're going to have and that's something you're going to have to actually ask yourself because again love it love is not enough yeah and i feel like i've just been trying to meet him where he's at sure but if if where he's at is like making me miserable doing it though sure yeah because where he's at sounds like kind of like an.
Yeah. It's like very volatile.
Like, I don't know what I'm going to get. Like when I walk through the door, if he's going to be like sweet, happy and great mood and totally fine about our decisions and what's going on.
Or if something went wrong. And so now he's upset and suddenly everything that I thought he said he was okay about two days ago is suddenly just brought back up and yeah that's my problems and I'm the reason why we're in this mess that's crazy you can't do that no you're and you're it's exhausting I want you're only 29 so if I were in your position I would give the next 6 to 12 months some real effort on getting this relationship back on track and trying to encourage the both of you to get the help that the two of you need in this relationship and hope that he's willing to work with you.
And if he continues to be resistant, I think you really need to seriously consider whether this is your person. Do I like bring back up everything? Like, I don't know if I should be like, if if it's like bad or triggering if i'm like well you know like because last time we broke up he got max he's like he felt blindsided he felt like i didn't tell him what was gonna happen so i'm like do i let him know like hey i really feel like we need to get this or like we might be back where i have to leave again no don't do that that'll trigger him like should be, what I'm saying is it should be enough for you to go to him and say, again, listen, babe, I really love you.
And I like, I hope you know this, but I'm just going to say it. A life with you is something I desire.
I plan on marrying you. I want to have kids with you.
But we are often disconnected.

And right now, we're having a big,

we're not on the same page

when it comes to the finances in the house.

I'd like us to do couples therapy

because that can help us work through our conflict better.

It can teach us tools to be more connected.

And I want to feel more connected to you. And I would like us to do that.
That's all you say. And that should be enough for him to say, you know what? Sure, I'm willing.
I'm not really a fan of therapy. I don't believe it.
But yeah, what's the harm in trying? Because yeah, I don't want to fight with you either. And I want us to be on the same page.
And if he tries to bring up the fight, if he tries to bring up the house, and be like, listen, I don't want to fight with you either. And I want us to be on the same page.
And when, if he tries to bring up like the fight, if he tries to bring up the house, be like, listen, I don't want to relitigate this with you. We've done this a hundred times.
Can we just agree that we're not agreeing on this right now? I think we need someone to help us work through this because we haven't been able to work through this on our own. And what I care about is us.
And about being stronger together and again that should be enough and if he keeps being resistant then you're going to finally have to ask yourself some tough questions because you're right making idle threats and like that's only going to trigger him and it's not going to do any good and you don't he doesn't deserve a heads up people are blindsided if you come if you eventually have to break up with this guy, it's clearly not because you want to, and he's going to be sad and he's going to be mad. He's going to throw a fit and he's going to hate you.
But that's life. It's not your responsibility to emotionally take care of this guy, especially if you decide to leave this relationship.
And if you do want to have kids with this guy, the last thing you need is kids and a husband who's also emotionally a child. Yeah.
And I feel like that's what I'm scared of because it feels like I have to emotionally regulate him at all times. And at some point you might, you have to communicate that to him.
And if he has a hard time hearing that, well, that's part of the problem. Well, and I have brought it, like like brought that up like that being the main thing so like i thought he had heard me on it but i feel like a lot of things were said that weren't really how he felt sure well yeah when people want to get back together they'll say anything yeah so i feel like it's that's i feel like i'm also kind of like not wanting to put myself especially just getting out of a bad financial situation like if i'm not like i guess i'm like i'm not feeling super secure like i love him and i like see a future with him but i'm based on what's going on and like the path we're going it's like do i want to put by because he like of course he wants like a six hundred house so i'm like do i want to like play 600 000 on this relationship right now no with me on the mortgage but him also on the title if you buy the house he should have nothing to do with it and if that emotionally triggers him then he needs to make different life choices i don't't, it's just, it's that simple.
And if he can't handle that, I mean, I think you need to take a real pause and ask yourself some tough questions because what I'm hearing from you is you don't believe he's capable of making the changes I'm hoping that he can make with you guys. And if that's the case, then, you know, get out while you can.
You're only 29. Yeah.
I want him to make, I think he has, he cares enough. Like he loves me enough.
I just, I mean, all you can do is try, you know what I'm saying? Like you're going to have to find out whether he's willing to do it. So I know I feel like that's what scary part is getting the answer sometimes.
I know. But if it, listen, if it doesn't work out the way you want, you'll get through it.
You're going to learn from shit. So if this isn't the guy that you end up with, the next relationship you get in, you know, make sure, you know.
I don't know if I can handle two failed engagements. You'll live.
I've handled, I've handled them. No one gives a shit.
It's fine. And you're not engaged right now.
Don't, so don't get, you know. No one gives a shit.
It's fine.

And you're not engaged right now.

So don't get, you know.

Do I hold that off?

Yeah, I think right now you guys have a lot of work to do.

And if he's not willing to get into

couples therapy, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't make any

big decisions. If this is

a guy who clearly is emotionally

unpredictable,

which emotionally unpredictable, people make you feel unsafe. They just do.
Yeah. It's stressful.
Like an anxiety and eggshells. And if that's who he is, then he needs to do some work before you do anything.
And if he can't, if he can't handle that truth, then I mean, you got, you got, he's really giving you nothing to work with. Yeah.
Other than he loves me. That's not enough.
Because what do they say? Love is patient. Love is kind.
Love is empathetic. Love doesn't say, well, it's your job to do this and it's your responsibility to do this.
And if you did this for me, I would be better. Love isn't putting the entire burden on your partner.
Love is asking yourself, how can I better take care of my partner? I'm hearing a little bit of that from you. I'm hearing none of that from him.
And I'm sure he does things for you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in this particular department, he can't see the forest through the trees.
Yeah. Just like one track minded on.
I feel like the house, the kids, the marriage, and I feel like it's like, like okay then we're all good if we have that no yeah no he would be your relationship would be the first in the history of relationships and i'm guessing it won't be yeah like moving in together buying a house together doesn't solve problems it just creates more stress if there's already conflict it creates what is our whatever conflict is already there it will magnify that conflict tenfold hundredfold i'm not ready for that i already can't like handle that in a full-time job right now so all right uh well keep us updated i'd love to know what happens but you gotta ask you i think you gotta have some of yourself some tough questions but you know listen see if he's willing to do couples therapy but But if he stonewalls you there, I don't know how much hope there is. Got an answer? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
All right. All right.
Take care. I'll do it.
All right. Bye-bye.
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How's it going? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm great.
What's your name? My name is Megan. I'm 30

years old. How can I help Megan? So I'm trying to figure out how to forgive an absentee father

I'm going good. How are you? I'm great.
What's your name? My name is Megan. I'm 30 years old.
How can I help Megan? So I'm trying to figure out how to forgive an absentee father after four plus years. Okay.
Tell me more. So short backstory of my life.
My parents divorced whenever I was a year old. My father was pretty much in and out of my life.
My entire life, it was to the point to where I didn't even really want to spend time with him. So my mom kind of left that to my discretion.
If I didn't want to see him, obviously she could not make me. Even as I got older, he didn't really much make an effort to see me or talk to me or anything.
Fast forward to my adult life. I even tried to take him out for Father's Day one year and he told me no.
I ended up marrying a military man. So anyone knows about military relationships, they do move very fast.
So I met my now husband in 2020. We got married after probably about five or six months of dating.
I had not heard from my father any that year.

We moved out of state across the country.

And I don't even think my father knew that I moved.

And then a year after us being there, I got pregnant with our son.

He is now two and a half years old.

After I got pregnant, I ended up blocking. my father and his wife have a joint Facebook account.
I blocked that Facebook account because in my mind, I was like, if he did not make an effort for my whole life, I didn't really want him to know that I was starting a family of my own. I kind of feel like that's a privilege.
So fast forward the whole three years we were in that state. Didn't obviously hear anything from him.
We've now been in our current state for a year now and probably about two months ago my aunt, so his sister, found me on Facebook, sent me a friend request. At first I declined it because I have not spoken to her since I was probably about 16 years old.
I gave her a chance to reach out to me. She never did.
So I ended up messaging her. We kind of conversed for a day or two.
She kind of gave the same excuse as, you know, life gets in the way. Always wondered about you, you know, never did anything about it.
And then she asked me, cause she give my father, my phone number. I hesitated, but gave it to him.
He called me like a couple of days later. He gave a lot of excuses with his phone call, kind of the same way that she did saying, um, life gets in the way.
Always wondered about you. I know where you were living for three years.
I know that you're married and I know that you have a son. And I found out that he actually had pictures on his phone of me while I was pregnant and of my son, which was a hard pill to swallow because I felt very violated.
I had blocked his Facebook page for a reason, you know, and he kind of kept saying how he came very close to calling my job to reach out to me. And obviously he never did it.
Like I said, the phone call was filled with just a bunch of excuses. So now I'm in the state of, do I try to work with him to forgive him or do I protect my current family that I have now? Because now we just found out that I'm pregnant with our second kid.
And do I let him kind of start fresh in a way or do I protect my family? When you say protect, how are you protecting your family from him? So, like I said, obviously, he wasn't really a father to me my whole life.

And I feel like knowing my son and my future kid is a privilege.

I have the fear of him doing the same thing that he did to my kids that he did to me.

And that would be what?

Just not being around?

Yes.

Thank you. Same thing that he did to my kids that he did to me.

And that would be what?

Just not being around?

Yes.

Because the way I see it, my son is in no shortcomings of love.

He has us.

He has my mom and he has my in-laws.

Okay.

What I'm hearing from you and just my humble opinion, I'm hearing a lot of hurt on your end, obviously, justifiably so.

A lot of pain. And I think that pain is coming out.
And I think, you know, I'm sure you've heard the phrase, hurt people, hurt people, right? Yes. And when you say, you know, protect, or when you say, you know, I think, you know, having access to pictures of my kids and my family is a privilege.
And what I'm kind of hearing from you is that that's way of punishing your dad for not being the dad he should have been, which I can understand totally understandable more than justified. You have every right to do that.
No one's going to blame you for it.

But if your goal is to actually consider reconciliation, you said it yourself.

Your kids have plenty of love to go around.

They're going to be okay.

They have a support system.

Also, grandparents sometimes get old.

And if people are lucky enough to know their grandparents, sadly, most of them, unless there's real tragedy for the kids, everyone has to experience loss of a grandparent, right? My grandfather wasn't really, you know, my dad's dad, he cheated on my grandma, moved to Florida. I don't know.
I have like three or four memories of him, right? We weren't really that close. I was okay.
You know what I'm saying? Like once, you know, I remember one time he took us to the zoo i was like six or seven the one time he went to his apartment he was definitely a guy i didn't know much of right he ended up passing when i was in high school but like i really didn't know the guy you know but that did not affect me one bit you know again because my parent i much loved by my parents. Most importantly, my grandmothers were obviously in our life.
I was close with my grandmothers. Sadly, my other grandfather passed when I was in the fourth grade.
But unless there's something you're specifically protecting him from, like abandonment, I think they're going to be okay. They're grandparents.
Grandparents, I mean, some families, maybe a grandma or grandpa are like a second mom and dad, and maybe they're living in the family. And yeah, that might be traumatic of one day, one of those parents just up and left.
But again, grandparents also do get old and some often eventually pass away. So I don't know how much protecting is required from grandpa with what you're describing me, that make sense? Yes.
I feel like I also have a negative light for my dad aside from him being very absent. The last time I saw him in person, I had a different job.
I was sexually harassed at work and I kind of like briefly told him about it and he laughed. And in my mind, I was like, I'm your only child.
And on top of that, I am a female. And for me to tell you about that and you laugh, I feel like that just painted him in a different light.
So I don't know if I'm holding onto that as well. Oh, I mean, that would be understandable.
I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm sorry he handled it that way. There's no excuse for it.
You know, now he's not an ass Nick, but on reality recap from time to time, it gets brought up, especially on GD where, you know know our guests will open about their their parenting she has an amazing relationship with her mom not so much with her dad right and as nally has described she has come to accept along with her siblings that he just doesn't really know how to be a dad he just doesn't have that dad bone in his body. And he often says off-putting things and things that you would never think that your dad would say.
It's usually out of awkwardness or him just being fucking weird or whatever the fuck. This is not in any way to justify how your dad handled that situation.
I think if you decide to allow your dad to be in your life in any capacity, you're going to have to accept certain truths about your dad. You're going to have to limit your expectations.
Because what I'm hearing from you right now is, and I think it's very understandable and very normal, is you're hurt that your dad wasn't there. You're hurt that your dad failed you in many ways.
I'm sure there's a long list. And you want your dad to be a good fucking dad.
You want your dad to step up in ways you've probably seen your friend's dad step up. So you have a certain expectation of what you wish your dad would be.
And your dad's not that person. Right.
And he probably will never be that person. And that sucks.
And you're going to have to accept that. And so the question is, can you accept that and still take whatever he can give, which is probably not much, but it's still something, you know, when it comes to family, in my opinion, is often better than nothing.
Unless it really is someone who really is hurting you, who really is putting you and your family at risk, you know, whether it's just, you know, in any capacity. And so, like, in the future, if you allow your dad back into your life, he's not the guy you go to for any problem.
If he surprises you one day with, you know, like if one day, you know, you allow your dad back in your life and things are, you know, civil and he just throws out some random advice that you're like, wow, that was really helpful. Be surprised, you know, but like, you know, it really comes down to the acceptance.
You have to accept your dad for who he is. And you're having a hard time doing that.
You're still hoping your dad could be someone he's not. And so again, you know, you going to him for anything is like, it's like, you're wanting to give your, every time something happens to you where you need a dad, you're going to your dad and hoping he can finally be a dad and then every time he shows you he can't be a dad and then that hurts you and that and that's painful to hear and you know and so i think if you want to have your dad in your life you kind of have you have to recalibrate your expectations of him you kind of have to tell yourself i don't know what his was like.
I don't know what happened to him, but this is clearly the best he can do. And so I'm going to take what I can get and have zero expectations.
And at first, yeah, I would have my guard up. I would have very clear boundaries.
And I would say, hey, listen, I'm open to this, but, I'm reluctant about your ability to stay in our life. So, you know, I want to set some clear boundaries.
And if you can show me that you can work within these boundaries, we can talk about, you know, the future and maybe getting closer. But he has to demonstrate his ability to work within your boundaries.
But, you know, does that make sense? And I did tell him that during our very long awkward phone call, I told him that since I am now a parent, I surely hope that nothing ever comes between me and my son to where I don't talk to him for several years. And in my mind, I cannot fathom anything that would keep me from wanting to speak to my son and my future child.
And he was like, well, you know, it's not really like that. And I was like, but it is like that.
If you say you wanted to write me a letter and mail it to me or you wanted to call my job, but you didn't do these things, how do I know you're not just saying that in the moment? And like I said, he just kept saying, well, it's not like that. And then I think I have been trying little by little to allow him to certain things.
So he did ask for our address to send my son Christmas presents, And he did. But he keeps bringing up.
It's been a few weeks since I've talked to him. But he keeps bringing up, like, you need to let me know when I can come visit you guys.
And I'm like, whoa, pump the brakes a little bit. This does not need to be a huge thing of you're also seeing me for the first time in five years at this point and you're meeting my husband and you're meeting my son that is just a lot all at once and I don't think that he understands that yeah I mean I guess all you can do is keep reinforcing those boundaries and just say hey I appreciate you wanting to see me on some level that that does mean a lot, but I am not ready.
And I really need you to work on my pace, you know, and.

All right. And I don't think that we haven't gotten too much into it, but I've already talked

to my husband about it and my mom, my mom's very much, she never bad mouthed my dad when she, you know, she very much could have. She always left it to me to make my own opinion of him.
But I've talked to my husband about it and I've told him because we live probably about six hours from where he lives. And my mom's probably about the same distance, but my mom comes up pretty frequently to come help me out with my son whenever my husband is gone.
But I've told my husband that I want it to be like two separate trips.

I would like for him to come up and meet my husband one day and my husband can kind of assess the situation.

And then another time, maybe we can meet halfway and him meet my son.

But that just feels it's already a kind of not a guilty feeling,

but it is kind of hard to share your kid with people and then to have to

reintroduce or introduce someone completely into your child's life.

I think that's just a scary thought for me because obviously my son is,

my son is at the age now to where whenever I mentioned nan or grandma or

gramps, he knows who I'm talking about. Yeah.
You know, so. I know.
I would just caution you and I know it's not your intention, but I would just caution you not to, I guess I don't know if a better way to say it, but kind of use your kid as a way to express your frustrations towards your dad. Like you said, your kid's well loved and taken care of.
of. Your son's going to be okay because he has you and your husband and grandma and grandpa.
A lot of people, when they call in, they're talking boyfriend and girlfriend stuff or situationships and they're like, should I block them? And I'm always like, if you want to block them to protect your peace, block them. But if you're going to block them to get a reaction and be petty, then I don't do that.
And earlier when you were talking about Facebook and blocking them, you blocked them and you said, well, I think it's a privilege. And it kind of what I heard that is like, you're kind of trying, it was, what I heard is you were almost trying to punish them and you didn't think they deserved the chance to see pictures.
It wasn't really, you know, if your Facebook's public and if Joe Schmo can see pictures

of your son,

then why can't your dad?

But you didn't think he deserved it,

so you kind of wanted to punish him.

I don't think that's very productive.

You know, like,

I think you're,

in a way,

you're kind of using your son

to hurt your dad

knowing that he wants,

you know,

it's because he doesn't deserve it. And I'm not saying he does deserve it.
And I'm not saying I don't understand. I just don't think that's going to do you any good in the long run.
And I think you really need to really think when you're triggered, like clearly your dad is triggering for you and totally understandably so. And when you're triggered, right, it's fight or flight, you want to react, you know, and, and you're in it when it comes to your dad, I'm hearing fight, you know, you get triggered by your dad and you kind of want to fight back, you know? And I would caution you to be mindful not to do that.
I, like I was, I just don't know how to, how to move forward from this. Like, how do I begin to get, I guess, the forgiveness? My mom, I talked to her about it.
She was she was like well I was very mad at your dad for a long time until I went to like a church meeting and the lady spoke on forgiveness and she was like after I left that meeting like a huge weight felt like lifted off of me because I realized that I needed to forgive your dad and I don't know what it's going to take for me to get to that point i don't even know how

to begin to get to that point because i don't know i just have a lot of questions forgiveness is not your dad needs to do nothing right there's nothing he can or you know what i'm saying like i mean like maybe he can apologies but like i you know again it will probably be riddled with excuses and justifications like If you want to forgive your dad, part of it comes from acceptance. It is accepting that your dad would do better if he knew how.
Right. And it's even harder because my mom assumed that he would be a great dad because his dad is the was the same way that he is so when my parents were married my mom always saw the hurt from him and his sister because their dad didn't know how to be a dad so it was kind of like an apple doesn't fall far from the tree situation so he ended up being just like his dad and my dad actually said I think I have a lot more in common with him than I would like to think that I did.
And I was like, yeah. That's probably a hard thing for him to realize.
And I'm sure, listen, your ability to forgive will come from your ability to empathize. You were a victim of your childhood and you were a victim of your dad's upbringing.
And that wasn't to you and sadly nothing you know we can't change the past and your dad will probably never be the dad you hoped you would be you know and that's what i mean like so it's really just it's forgiving and then resetting your expectations because right now you have a lot of pain you have a lot of anger and you're you're not in a place for forgiveness and then you still are wanting and hoping and expecting him to change course and it's like your subconscious brain is telling you until he shows you he can be the dad i always need him to be then fuck him right i think the last five years, whenever someone brings it up to me, I'm always quick to be like, I don't care about it. But then it's like, whenever I get to thinking about it or something triggers me, like you said, that's when I'm kind of like, well, maybe it is affecting me a little bit more than I think it would.
And I think I only have felt this way since becoming a mom. Because like I said, in my mind, I just can't fathom the thought of never having a relationship with my kids.
I don't care what happens. And God forbid anything ever does happen.
I'm sure I'm going to piss them off several times in their life. But in my mind, nothing will stop me from trying with my kids.
Yeah. And like that's, you know, and then best possible way, you know, maybe it's from your mom or whatever, but like, hopefully you, you know, like you said, you don't plan on continuing this toxic pattern that seemed to be something that was going on in your dad's side of the family.
So forgiving him is simply just, again, accepting who he is and just forgiving the past.

Because there's nothing, you know, it's not like, well, I need them to do X, Y, or Z before I forgive them. Well, then you probably won't ever be able to forgive him because he's probably not going to be able to do X, Y, or Z.
Right. And your dad will probably continue to disappoint you.
You know, Nally has, you know, and she has forgiven him, and she accepts who he is, but he still does things where she's just like, what the fuck? So how long or how do you think that it worked best for her to realize how to forgive her dad? What do you think that she had to realize in order to forgive her dad just accepting yeah who he was like who he was yeah that he just as she puts it like he just doesn't have the dad bone this is not in his nature why she didn't you know she didn't try to figure out why because his parents incredible grandparents who knows what life was like when he was a kid or back then her experience with her grandparents has been nothing but lovely her dad's brother excellent father so like she you know which was especially hard on her because it was like well what's the fucking problem you know like everyone around you seem you know i got their great grandparents you know your brother my uncle has been a better dad to me than you are. Like, and that was very hard for her to accept.
You have to stop trying to understand the why, and you just have to accept the what, you know, what is the situation? Your dad's not a good dad. He's not.
Right. And my in-laws kind of say the same thing.
My, my father-in-law doesn't have a relationship with his sister, not for lack of trying. She, he's not.
Right. And my in-laws kind of say the same thing.
My, my father-in-law doesn't have a relationship with his sister,

not for lack of trying.

She,

he's left the door open for her many of times,

but you know,

she continually fucks up.

And my father-in-law just kind of says,

well,

all you can really do is give him the opportunity.

If he fucks up again,

cut him out.

Yeah.

Or,

or roll your eyes and create some space. But like's position is when he says off-putting things or, I don't know, gives her a t-shirt for Christmas that's really bizarre.
She doesn't say, you know what? Fuck this guy. I don't want anything to do with him.
It's just more like, yeah, he is who he is. I don't know.
He still calls from time to time and check in in his own way say you know what fuck this guy i don't want anything to do with him it's just more like yeah he is who he is i don't know he still calls from time to time and check in in his own way you know he is not like when shit hits the fan for her he's not the guy she goes to she you know she has me now and when i'm you know if i'm not enough she has her mom she has people you have people and like i think sometimes when we want especially when to parents, and fortunately I didn't have to deal with this, but for, you know, it's like, you're still fighting that hope that your dad will be this person. And you're, you have to let go of that hope.
I agree. I agree.
I think it's going to just take some time little by little. Yeah.
And I think, you know, I think I would just be mindful of the, when you feel triggered and when you feel pain, not to try to punish your dad and not to use your kids as a way of punishing your dad, your kids are going to be okay. So convincing yourself that you have to protect your kids from grandpa, what I'm hearing is you're kind of using your kids to punish your dad.
And I just think that's causing you more hurt and pain than anything else. Yeah.
I didn't think about it that way. And I don't think anyone else has told me that, but yeah, that makes sense.
All right. Yeah.
Well, sorry. That definitely sucks, but I think you're thinking of this the right way.
I think you're trying to do the right thing

and lean on your husband,

lean on your family,

focus on what you do have,

you know, count your blessings.

And when it comes to your dad,

take what you can get.

Sounds good.

I appreciate your help.

All right.

Take care.

Thank you.

All right.

Bye.

Bye. Bye.
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