E869 Ask Nick - Can I Win Her Back?

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Speaker 4 You're crazy.

Speaker 2 How's it going?

Speaker 3 Hi, Nick. My name is Amber.
I'm 31 years old. Last week, I found a pair of underwear in my boyfriend's drawer.

Speaker 3 It's my drawer, but it's at his house. And the underwear is a mystery and we don't know who it's from.

Speaker 3 And he's completely denying it. So I'm suspecting that something might be going on behind my back.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 You found the underwear?

Speaker 3 I did. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Washed and cleaned with my underwear.

Speaker 2 Well, I imagine that it, like, whoever washed it, I don't think it was their intention to wash it, right?

Speaker 3 Right. It seems as though.

Speaker 2 It somehow found its way into the laundry pile.

Speaker 6 Yep.

Speaker 3 He's been doing, he does my laundry. So he does your own laundry.

Speaker 2 He's been doing it.

Speaker 3 And it could be that he might have not recognized it to be mine or hers and just assumed it was mine. Hers, meaning whoever this might be.

Speaker 3 His reasoning is real, it was really good.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 3 it kind of, it had me like not really questioning. until I started getting in my own head about it.
So

Speaker 3 basically, before me and him started dating, he had another girlfriend in the picture, very similar situation to mine, where

Speaker 3 she was living there. I live there part time.
I don't want to live there fully yet. So I live with my parents and him.
So same thing with her. She got a little bit of a long distance.

Speaker 3 So she had a drawer there.

Speaker 3 That drawer is broken underneath. So he just recently cleaned out the drawer under it to give me another second drawer.

Speaker 3 He's saying that it's possible that her underwear fell into that second drawer so i said well that makes perfect sense um

Speaker 3 and it started bothering me looking like a sock stuck in the back of a dresser kind of yeah exactly so so it started bothering me a lot so i said to him instead of kind of taking it into my own hands i wanted him to reach out to her and say are these your like you know kind of confirm because i wouldn't be i would just keep thinking about it if not and the girl confirmed that they're not hers she said they're not hers Yeah.

Speaker 2 Who did you call or did he call?

Speaker 3 No, he called her. I, I, I was at work, so I, I texted him, and I, you know, because I, it was a bit of a slow day at the office.
So I was like, in my own head.

Speaker 3 So I said, you're, you're going to have to reach out to her, show her the underwear, ask her if it's hers, and that's it. And then that's it, it's over.
We won't talk about it ever again.

Speaker 3 Um, and he his response was, and this I found to be a little strange, he was like, I already know she won't remember.

Speaker 3 I mean, in my head, I know all my underwear. So I was like, okay, well, it's, it's, it won't hurt to try.
So he did. And she,

Speaker 6 she said, those aren't mine.

Speaker 3 And actually, she, I just found out today she messaged me. So I found a couple things out that weren't heading up.

Speaker 2 So you weren't by his side when you made the call?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 2 So in theory, he could have lied to you?

Speaker 3 In theory, yes. And I didn't ask for any receipts.
I don't, I don't, I haven't really been smart about this. Like, I haven't asked for anything.

Speaker 2 It's uncharted territory.

Speaker 3 How long have you been dating dating this guy we've been together for around five months okay so it's pretty new it is pretty new he he's very fast in the way that he is with his relationships okay and the ex-girlfriend you had him call how how long has she been out of the picture

Speaker 3 a month what do you mean a month like a month like she

Speaker 3 He stopped dating her in around May. He actually, he told me that she dumped him on his birthday.

Speaker 2 Wait, wait, but you've been dating him for five months?

Speaker 3 Since June, or since like July, early July was the official.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you're saying she was out of the picture for a month when you met him?

Speaker 7 Yeah. Okay.
All right.

Speaker 6 I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 Oh, well, tell me the story.

Speaker 3 So this morning, I see that I have a message request on Facebook and it's her.

Speaker 3 And she, so actually, I do know now that he did reach out because she said, she said, are you really messaging me from your boyfriend's phone? And I said, no, no. I said, you know, I had him do it.

Speaker 3 I didn't want it to be a big confrontation between you and i it's his he needs to provide the answer so i had him reach out and she's and i said since i said and i kind of did say i said considering you left all your stuff there you know you kind of just up and left and he she said that's not what happened at all she said i needed a break for my mental health and then all of a sudden next thing i knew he was dating you well

Speaker 3 and in fairness to your boyfriend what is a break for mental health purposes and how long is he supposed to sit on the sideline exactly exactly exactly i talked to my sister about that and she said the same thing she said you know a little break you know i wouldn't accept a break from somebody i don't think it's for me it's like anyway

Speaker 2 so and a month later you guys meet and then

Speaker 3 and then what like you say he moves fast i mean how do you move who cares about how he moves i was okay with kind of the quickness of everything um i was single for like about four years kind of ready to take that next step.

Speaker 3 I did a lot of my own self-work.

Speaker 3 So I did move forward with the quickness of it all,

Speaker 3 being being that we would spend every night together. I was sleeping at the house, you know, spending all this time together talking.

Speaker 3 And he, you know, dropped the L-bomb a couple of weeks in, things like that. And I actually don't.

Speaker 3 I said, I'm not exactly there yet. Not ready to move in.
I like the part-time situation that we have. I think that's more comfortable.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 It was just weird to me that I find out that they broke up, you know, that he was dumped in May. And then a month later, he's rushing into something else.
So that was just a bit fishy.

Speaker 3 And the underwear, and then a couple of other white lies that I've found out.

Speaker 2 Like what?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 we,

Speaker 3 there was a week where I spent a lot more time home because I was just feeling a bit overwhelmed in the relationship.

Speaker 3 Prior to that week, this is going to sound really silly, but prior to that week, there was a restaurant that he's never gone to.

Speaker 3 We, you know, he would talk about it. They're just, they're building this new, this new spot.

Speaker 3 Let's go.

Speaker 3 so it comes to find out that like a couple weeks later i i go or he i go to his apartment and then he's like we're eating this food and he's signaling that he's already had it before so i said oh you when did you when did you get this i don't want to be too specific specific but um what you know when did you get this and he

Speaker 3 was like, oh, my boss ordered it for us at work. So I said, okay.
And then he changed it, changed the story within five seconds. It's like, oh, never mind.

Speaker 3 My friend, my friend picked me up in his new car and we went to go get it. Then so I had to mat at them.
I'm like, all right, well, those are two lies off the bat. But I didn't drill.

Speaker 3 I'm like, because I just had this like mentality of, if he really is lying, then I'm going to find out. And I don't know if that's silly to think, but I just, I'll find out.

Speaker 2 What's your dating history?

Speaker 3 I had a long-term relationship in my mid-20s to

Speaker 3 like my my end of my 20s so from like 25 to 28 i was in a relationship um with somebody who was always coming home at 3 a.m i lived with him so so that i i think there's a little bit of you know he would come home i would find numbers in the phone but it was always things that like weren't were never solid enough to leave for.

Speaker 3 Eventually, you know, you get checked out and I and I ended up just leaving that relationship.

Speaker 3 Over those past few years of being single, there were the situationships, guys who I like them, they don't like me, or vice versa, and it just wouldn't work out.

Speaker 3 And then I went on Hinge and I found Hinge to be the most kind of successful way of meeting someone online.

Speaker 2 So what does your gut tell you about this guy?

Speaker 3 My gut is telling me something is off. But he's so, like I said, he does my laundry.
He cooks for me. Like, he's so good.
Like, I don't think I've ever been handled by a man with such care.

Speaker 3 So when I'm finding out these weird little things, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 I believe him. And it's like, what do you mean? What is it going to,

Speaker 3 is this going to backfire?

Speaker 2 What do you mean, but what doesn't sound like you

Speaker 3 like like that story, I believe. I don't know.
I guess there's, I mean, I'm struggling internally on whether, like, whether I should believe this, believe him or not, or whether I should dig deeper.

Speaker 3 Or I don't know. Have you ever been in this? Like, have you ever heard of anyone who had this type of situation where they found a foreign object of clothes, but it's just unidentifiable?

Speaker 2 Not off the top of my head.

Speaker 2 Wasn't there like a TikTok trend of like

Speaker 6 plant something and see how they react?

Speaker 2 Yeah, some shit like that. Um,

Speaker 2 oh, no, I mean, so

Speaker 6 okay. Um,

Speaker 2 not the situation, yeah, no, it's weird. Like, well, and then, well, question.
Uh, before her, before this last girl, how long do you date her for?

Speaker 3 Probably the same amount of time. Probably somewhere between four and five months.

Speaker 3 Because before that, he had a long relationship that he was engaged for about, he was with this girl for around seven years. They co-parent the dog still.

Speaker 3 And then he jumped right from that into this other girl. So he's like a serial monogamous.
Like he is dated, like he wants a relationship.

Speaker 3 I don't think I'm ready to exactly give up on him.

Speaker 3 I just, am I silly to just kind of, i'm not because i won't once i'm over it i'm not gonna talk about it ever again like that's it i don't i've learned in the past what do you mean the back and forth it's just not gonna be worth it what do you mean by over it like i'm just curious like

Speaker 3 this situation like i don't i don't want to have an argument over something else and then since this is so open-ended be worried about you know, bring it up again.

Speaker 3 Like since it's, since we haven't figured out what it is, and if anything ever happens, because I've been in situations where in the past with bringing things back up, sure.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like he's actually trying to figure out whose underwear it is?

Speaker 3 No, I think he wants it over.

Speaker 3 I think because once I believed the initial story of the underwear fell behind the drawer, well, you, Tommy, you know, you, you, you, you're, you mentioned this last guy, right?

Speaker 2 You mentioned the guy you used to date, and, you know, you're, you know, all these things that you like that seem fishy, these red flags, coming home at 3M, random numbers in his phone, yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 2 So there was, you know, in your last relationship, you described a pattern of inconsistency, uh, behavior that you have a hard time adding up.

Speaker 2 Other than this pair of underwear, I understand, like, the white lies, a little, you know, fishy. But you tell me, does this man

Speaker 2 have time? to cheat on you, I guess, you know, like, is he, how, are you spending a lot of time apart? Can you account for where he's at when you're not with him?

Speaker 2 And I don't mean, you know, like some couples, right, they spend so much time together, right?

Speaker 2 And when they're not together, there's a lot of communication where it'd be like, it would just be logistically difficult to like cheat, you know?

Speaker 2 Then there's, you know, some couples, like, for a lot of times, it's just like you think you have trust in a relationship. You take it for granted.

Speaker 2 You're just, you don't think you have to like monitor your partner because no, no relationship, you should.

Speaker 2 And, you know, like they have a job, you have a job, you know, you see each other on a regular basis, but there could be a, they're sure, you're like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there could be a lot of time where, I don't know, I guess he could have had someone over, or he could have like gone to someone's house or blah, you know, whatever, you know.

Speaker 2 But you're describing, you've only been dating, you've been dating this guy for five months. It sounds like you're dating someone who like has all the signs of like,

Speaker 2 you know, someone who, again, serial monogamous, who wants to, you know, meet someone, really falls fast, really kind of tries to play house, you know, wants to move things along quickly.

Speaker 2 Those people tend not to also be cheaters early on. They tend to be cheaters maybe later on, you know, type of thing.
Now,

Speaker 2 that's a very gen, that's a huge generalization, but I guess, you know, five months is still incredibly early in a relationship. So again, the question still stands.

Speaker 2 But just based off of how much time you guys spend together, how you guys are interacting, et cetera, et cetera, how likely or possible it it is that he had a woman over to the point where she like left her underwear and it ended up in your drawer.

Speaker 2 Like, how likely is that?

Speaker 3 It's pretty likely.

Speaker 2 It is likely. It's possible.

Speaker 6 It is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, okay. So just to paint the picture, my dog lives with my parents.
Like I have pretty,

Speaker 3 so I'm here all the time. I want like I miss my dog a lot of the times when I'm not there.
or when I'm not here. So I spend a good amount of time here.

Speaker 3 We kind of worked out a thing that makes me, that made me feel more comfortable where I'll spend like my Thursday to Sunday with him and then spend the rest of my week home.

Speaker 3 And that's been working out really well, but there is a big gap. I will say he's not a partier.

Speaker 3 He's pretty much a homebody. And I don't know where he, you know, where he would meet, potentially meet someone.

Speaker 3 Started going to the gym recently. I'm like, ah, which I like.
I'm all for that. But then it's, you know, there's always that other side.

Speaker 6 that's like, well, why not?

Speaker 3 But that's a little bit of just back and forth in my own mind, I think.

Speaker 2 I don't know. So, why is it possible? Because you're not there half the week?

Speaker 3 Just because I'm not there. That would be the only, that would be really actually the only thing that I would suspect.

Speaker 3 I don't take him to be a, like a shady guy or, because like I said, I've been, I've met the shady guy. I've been with the shady guy.

Speaker 3 He doesn't display any really of those characteristics except a couple little weird thing, weird lies.

Speaker 2 Do you call him out? Like the weird lies. Did you call him out on that?

Speaker 3 The first one, the one lie that I found, I didn't at first because I was so like, that was weird. I was almost like a whiplash of two lies.
And I was like, what the heck?

Speaker 3 Like, I didn't even know how to react. So I kept my mouth shut, kept eating, and that was it.
Then there was one, there was an incident where,

Speaker 3 you know, sometimes like on, you know, on our Saturday nights, we stay up, we play cards and whatever. We ended up staying up really late one night and we're about to go to bed.

Speaker 3 i look over and he's over on snapchat texting on snapchat so i did right then and there i called him out i said who are you possibly talking to at 2 a.m on snapchat he said on snapchat so he and this i felt was a lie as well but he's doubling down um he said his friend wanted to see a picture of the dog who was right

Speaker 3 on the bed with his friend's a girl he's not his friend his friend

Speaker 2 so i didn't did you verify who is is? Do you know who is?

Speaker 3 I do know who is. Met him once.
I hardly know his friend.

Speaker 2 But you know that he really was talking to?

Speaker 3 He showed me like a couple days later, because this one I was pressing on a little bit. He showed me a couple days later.
He was like, look, see, it's and then it says

Speaker 3 like it was like the times didn't match up. So I knew it was not true.

Speaker 2 You called him out. He denied.
He said messaging,

Speaker 2 but he didn't show you anything. And then a couple days later, out of nowhere, he came to you and said, hey, look, see, I was messaging.

Speaker 3 I was messaging s. And it was, so it was actually like,

Speaker 3 I think it was that.

Speaker 2 He had reached out to him via Snapchat and then he wanted to show you the.

Speaker 3 It seems that way because the, um, yeah, it was,

Speaker 3 the timing was after that incident. that happened.
It was, it was, and I don't know if Snapchat gives you like exact timing or whatever. It almost even will say.

Speaker 2 Were there any other chats on there on the did you did he give you his phone or you just show it like this no he didn't no he just showed it like that and i and i said the timing is off

Speaker 2 that's it that's all i then that how old is this guy how old is this guy 30.

Speaker 2 okay

Speaker 2 there's definitely some red flags here listen we're not going to be able to figure out who's underwear it is right uh that's not that's less important than i think listen i think some things you got to be mindful of

Speaker 2 i think it's very human nature uh for us to you know i think sometimes you know we

Speaker 2 don't want to find out the truth when, you know, when we fear that the truth is going to hurt us.

Speaker 2 Fight or flight, our instincts have, have a, have a habit of trying to avoid painful situations, right? Like, I don't know, human nature. I don't know.
Maybe there's like a technical term for that.

Speaker 2 Maybe it's just called fight or flight. But like, I think often, like, it might be.

Speaker 2 Something as trivial as like, I think people sometimes who struggle with money problems or more money's tight, maybe they avoid looking at their bank accounts or their credit card statements because, like, to do that gives them anxiety.

Speaker 2 It brings, you know, so they'd rather not just avoid, avoid. You know, we avoid things that we are afraid might hurt us.

Speaker 2 So that mentality at times when situations that you find yourself in will cause us to avoid the follow-up questions or calling people out when we see something that looks a little fishy and we just like, I don't know, I don't want to bring it up.

Speaker 2 And then we'll convince ourselves, well, I don't want to create a fight or I don't want to be crazy and I don't want to be that person, yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 2 And then we'll talk ourselves out of like trusting our guts or following our instincts and things like that. Right.

Speaker 2 And listen, like none of us want to be the crazy partner who's constantly like questioning, but like there's a huge difference between making shit up, right?

Speaker 2 And creating scenarios in your head out of nowhere. That's crazy.
But following up on things that

Speaker 2 your partner is doing and asking follow-up questions to behaviors they're demonstrating that aren't adding up is not crazy. That's just you doing your due diligence.

Speaker 2 And when we are dating people that do these kind of odd things,

Speaker 2 it can sometimes make us feel quote unquote crazy because, you know, we're constantly saying, well, why, what about that? Or why are you doing that? And that's... That's weird.

Speaker 2 And you're just like, every other day, I'm going to my partner and I'm like questioning them. And I've just never been that person who's constantly questioning the person I'm dating.

Speaker 2 And it almost feels like it's our fault that we're always questioning them. But it's not our fault.
It's It's because the people we're dating are doing shit.

Speaker 2 Like the fact that he is Snapchatting anyone at 2 a.m. is one of the biggest red flags you could have.
A 30-year-old men are not Snapchatting other 30-year-old men on Snapchat. They're just not.

Speaker 2 They're messaging women, right?

Speaker 2 There's like a 99% chance that was a girl.

Speaker 2 Hindsight's 2020.

Speaker 2 What I would have done when you found that underwear in that moment, you know,

Speaker 2 you're in his house and you found a pair of women's underwear that is not yours, right? In that moment, you have literal evidence, right? This is crazy. You know, and granted,

Speaker 2 you want to be rational, right? You want to think, okay, maybe there is an explanation as to why this piece of underwear is here that I'm holding. That doesn't...

Speaker 2 mean he's fucking someone else, right? That's pop. And obviously, you certainly hope that's reasonable.

Speaker 2 And so what you should have done in in that moment is wait for him to come home, not reach out to him, not message him. What are these?

Speaker 2 Don't give him the opportunity to come up with the story, to come up with an alternative situation. And you should say, hey, you should sit down and be like, all right, I found this underwear.

Speaker 2 And then before you say anything, I want us to just sit here and agree that if you found. a pair of men's underwear at my house, that would rattle you.
It would really fuck you up.

Speaker 2 And listen, we've also only been dating for five months. So don't get, you know, this whole like, why don't you trust me? I don't know.

Speaker 2 I want to trust you, but like this pair of underwear is saying otherwise. So I don't want to ask you questions.
I want you to give me your phone right now.

Speaker 2 And I, and in that moment, you had the right to say, as unfair as it might feel, let's assume it's totally, let's assume it's not his ex-girlfriend, but it's his long-term girlfriend.

Speaker 2 Let's assume this pair of underwear has been

Speaker 2 sitting in there hidden and for you to find whatever. Listen, if I was dating someone and I, you know, for five months and I was, you know, I've been a serum monogamous before.

Speaker 2 I've been the person who wants to play house and moved a little bit too fast.

Speaker 2 If I were dating someone and five months in and we're doing this house and I came home and my girlfriend that I was dating was like, here's this pair of underwear. And I was like,

Speaker 2 I do not know where this came from. And I, I would give you my phone.
I would want, I would want to show you that I wasn't doing anything. I would want to show you that I have nothing to hide.

Speaker 2 Right now, granted, listen, there's there's a there's a small cave caveat to that.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I'm saying that right, but like I'm a firm believer that when you go through someone's phone or email, if you're if like again, if you're being crazy, if you're just like if you're just one of those people who just goes through their phone, not because you have a real reason, because you're just like, you don't trust people, you're gonna find something that's gonna piss you off.

Speaker 2 If you're looking for something to piss you off, chances are you'll find something that pisses you off. So you have to be careful about that.

Speaker 2 So before you go start going through every message and be like, who's this? What are you saying? You know, and you're like, I hope you have a good day.

Speaker 2 And he said, I hope you have a good day to someone named Jenny. You're like, why are you wishing Jenny and saying, you know, I don't know, maybe it's a co-you know, like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 There could be context there. You're looking for the obvious things of like, there's a text thread of like weird shit.

Speaker 2 You know, you know, if it's like you go into his DMs and all of a sudden it's in vanish mode for like three people, it's like, why are you having vanish mode on on these three conversations and they're women?

Speaker 2 Like if it's snap, you know, you should, you should have had the right. Now, that might have not approved anything.
Maybe he's just very diligent and good at hiding things.

Speaker 2 But my point is, in that moment, you had the right to say,

Speaker 2 let's figure this out together.

Speaker 2 But I need to look through your phone because like I, unfortunately, I need some hard evidence to the contrary because this is, I'm holding a pair of underwear that's not mine in my hand.

Speaker 2 And that's kind of crazy. And I want to believe you, but like you, if you were in my position, you wouldn't, you would need that verification too.
I think that's something you could have done.

Speaker 2 In that moment, immediately ask for that phone. Don't give them the opportunity to go through it, to delete shit.
Be like, I just need to see it. Like, I need that peace of mind.

Speaker 2 And you say it in a way where it's like,

Speaker 2 we want me to do this because you didn't do anything wrong. And I want to believe you didn't do anything wrong.
So just give me that phone because you got nothing to hide.

Speaker 2 You know, and when you, when, when shit like that happens, you got to, you better, you got to be quick to act on those things. And I don't think that's crazy.

Speaker 2 It's not totally unbelievable that this pair of underwear is someone else's. It's not.

Speaker 2 Could be from someone from his past. It's possible.
Unlikely, perhaps, but not totally unbelievable. And like I said, so when that things happen,

Speaker 2 you got to act fast, so to speak.

Speaker 2 And then again, if he, you know, their reaction to you demanding their phone in a very calm way, you know, you're just like, listen, I just, this is a very simple solution.

Speaker 2 Just show me your phone right now and hopefully that will like clear the air.

Speaker 2 Because if I can't find anything, there's a good chance, you know, again, that's, that's like, that's not a surefire way, but that's a great start.

Speaker 2 If he's sloppy enough to have a pair of women's underwear at his house because he's cheating on you, then he's probably sloppy enough to not delete all his messages.

Speaker 2 He's clearly sloppy enough to be Snapchatting women at 2 a.m. in front of you.
You know what I'm saying? So like,

Speaker 2 So some of these like little white lies are

Speaker 2 not adding up, so to speak. So listen, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't know whose underwear this is, but I think there's something going on here where I think you need to be better at asking some more direct questions and holding them accountable.

Speaker 2 And when your gut's telling you something, you just have to keep asking questions. Definitely.
That's all you can really do.

Speaker 2 Also, like, listen, like, stop, you know, the call started by you saying, well, he moves fast. And when you said that, you made it seem like, well, he moves fast.

Speaker 2 So I didn't really have much of a choice in this situation. So I went along with his timeline.
You got to stop doing that.

Speaker 2 Listen, if you meet a guy and you're excited and it feels good and you're like, oh, I really want to do this, fine, go nuts. Like we've all moved fast before.
We've all done that.

Speaker 2 I mean, you could argue in some ways, Nana and I move really fast. In some ways, we move really slow, but whatever.
I mean, every situation is different.

Speaker 2 But the point is, is that you have to be honest with yourself about the risks you're taking. I say that all the time, right? Like it's not, take risks, right? Do crazy things, like YOLO.

Speaker 2 But when you do crazy things, don't convince yourself you're not doing crazy things. You have to acknowledge the crazy thing you're doing.

Speaker 2 Hey, I decided to like basically play house with this new boyfriend I've only known for five months and live half the week with him.

Speaker 2 That's probably not the smartest way of building a relationship, but whatever. I want to do it anyways.
What are the challenges this might create with me doing something that's untraditional?

Speaker 2 That's a conversation you need to have with yourself. You need to be honest with the, you know, that's better than being like, well, honestly, I think this could be really healthy for us.

Speaker 2 That's that's you lying to yourself, right?

Speaker 2 You know, being honest with yourself is is i know the risks it doesn't mean it's going to end our relationship but regardless of the risk i want to do it anyways so understanding the risk and then trying to figure out what can you do you know like now when natalie moved to la she moved in with me right away we went from being in a nine-month basically situationship to being boyfriend and girlfriend and then living with each other that was a huge risk right like she moved across the country not having any friends we had to talk about what those risks were right she might feel a little lonely she might you know we had to sit down and talk about that.

Speaker 2 We had to address those risks and be honest with us,

Speaker 2 what challenges might come up from us taking risks. And because we both acknowledge it, we both felt good about the risk and we weren't lying to ourselves.

Speaker 2 You're describing a situation where you got yourself and you met a guy, you like him. He moves fast.

Speaker 2 You're going on his timeline and you're just kind of going along with things, it sounds like, because like it's kind of fun. And for the most part, why not? YOLO, you haven't met anyone in a while.

Speaker 2 This seems like a good thing. For the most part, he's demonstrating a lot of green flants.
He's taking care of you. Sounds like his love language is acts of service, which is great.

Speaker 2 So he can do all these nice things like your laundry and you feel taken care of. And that's great.

Speaker 2 But you're feeling taken care of is kind of masking these other things that he's doing that make you go, wait, why is he doing that? That's weird.

Speaker 2 Why is he Snapchatting people? Did he just lie to me about like having been here before? And like, why is he lying? Like, that's weird.

Speaker 2 You know, like, even if he took a girl there before like just tell me you took a girl there like who cares we've only been dating for five months it's not that crazy you know like but why does he need to lie yeah right you know and so you know does that make sense oh yeah it makes perfect sense so we don't know i i i suspect something's going on and i think you need to be quicker to ask follow-up questions and not not try to talk yourself out of challenging him because that's what you're doing now.

Speaker 2 I think you're talking yourself out of questioning his behavior because, you know, we don't want to question the people we claim to love or are developing feelings for.

Speaker 2 And then he can kind of do the whole kind of manipulating gap. Well, what, you don't trust me?

Speaker 2 It's like, okay, well, I don't know. Like, I don't.
And when someone says like that, you don't trust me, you say, I want to trust you, but I'm like, I'm, you're, your behavior is not adding up.

Speaker 2 Your behavior is giving untrustworthy. So I don't know.
Yeah. I wanted to trust you, but like, why are like you're Snapchatting at 2 a.m.

Speaker 2 You know, you, you lied to me about, you know, you, you have undoer in your drawer. I don't know.
Would you trust me? I don't know.

Speaker 2 Like, maybe this is all a big coincidence, but like, this is giving shady,

Speaker 2 you know? Yeah. So definitely.
So what after I just rambled, what does your gut tell you about this guy?

Speaker 3 My gut's telling me there is something off and something wrong.

Speaker 3 I just don't know what.

Speaker 3 I do, I am really going to implement your advice and be more

Speaker 3 straightforward in asking the questions. I am kind of kicking myself in the butt a little bit for not being able to get the phone right away because his reaction would have said it, right?

Speaker 3 It would have said everything that I needed to know. And it's something so simple that I could have just done.

Speaker 2 And I just want to- It's fine.

Speaker 2 That's okay. But you can still

Speaker 2 don't, yeah, but don't beat yourself up. If I were you in this moment right now,

Speaker 2 are you at his place right now? No. You're not.

Speaker 2 I would pull back. I wouldn't go play house this weekend, so to speak.
And

Speaker 2 I would say to him, listen, I'm having a hard time right now. I really want to trust you.
I really, really do.

Speaker 2 But like, you know, whether it's the Snapchat, like you're, you're, it's just not adding up, man. The underwear, you call them out for the lying about the restaurant.

Speaker 2 Like, if you were in my position, how would this all seem to you? It's just like, it's not just one thing. It's just a multiple of little things that just are giving you're, you're being shady.

Speaker 2 You know, you're, you're operating in a a shitty way. You know, I'm going to hang out with mom and dad this weekend

Speaker 2 and just kind of be vague about it. Just be like, I, I want to be able to work.

Speaker 2 I, you know, if depending on what you want to do, listen, if, if you, if this is all just bad luck, I need more transparency. I don't know.
But you have to call them out on this behavior.

Speaker 2 I would spend the weekend being like, I know you're not telling me everything. I don't know what you're hiding from me, but something else is going on.

Speaker 2 And until I know the truth and not like, you know and just call them out be like listen you i i asked you about the snapchat you said it was

Speaker 2 and then two days later you like randomly said see it was why didn't you say see it was in that moment right

Speaker 2 and to be honest when you showed me it was quote unquote like just looking a quick glance tell me that that that is not actually the that's not when he messaged you you know and i don't know maybe he's messaged you since so that's why it's not adding up but i'm just saying you are acting in a shady way you are being it looks like you're trying to cover up your behavior you know but maybe you're all maybe you are telling me the truth but like again if you were in my shoes this would be you wouldn't trust me so listen I think you will eventually get to the truth if you stop trying to talk yourself out of trusting your gut and I think that's the biggest takeaway when something feels off you got to ask follow-up questions There's nothing wrong with,

Speaker 2 I don't think, if you have to ask for that person's phone, it's an uncomfortable feeling, but like their actions put you in that situation.

Speaker 2 And again, if people have nothing to hide, then it shouldn't be a big deal. Right.
You know?

Speaker 6 Definitely.

Speaker 2 It's just like after a while, you know, you marry a couple, Natalie and I have each other's passwords and things like that. There are situations where like

Speaker 2 I'll be like, oh, like we'll door dash something or right.

Speaker 2 And then I'll be like, oh, just use my phone, you know, and like, it's not that we're just so quick to, you know, but we wouldn't be like that if if if we were none of us were hiding things, you know, Anyways, does this all make sense?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. No, it's great.
It makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 Do you feel more armed?

Speaker 6 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 I do feel more armed and prepared. I do definitely, I guess I struggle with confrontation.
Not, I guess. I do.

Speaker 6 I struggle with that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And knowing that means that you're more susceptible to talking yourself out.

Speaker 3 of these situations. It's an easy way to handle it for me.

Speaker 3 But it's not because I do feel like something in my gut. And I do think that if I do keep brushing it off and pushing it away, it'll just come back somewhere along the lines, somewhere else.

Speaker 3 So then I'm going to really look like a fool.

Speaker 2 A good remedy for being non-confrontational is to do kind of what I suggested:

Speaker 2 it's a lot easier just to pull back and not come over when you're supposed to come over than show up and say, what the fuck? Right.

Speaker 2 Is it more passive-aggressive? Sure.

Speaker 2 but you'll get you'll get to the same destination so to speak you just say listen like you know make when it's you're basically making him confront you you know right you pull back and he's kind of like what's going on and you're like well i'll tell you what's going on i'm having a hard time putting all these situations together and and still believing that you're being completely transparent and honest with me

Speaker 2 you know so that makes it a little easier to make them come to you by you pulling back and saying i don't i don't i need to to spend some time with the girls or I, you know, I just, I don't, right now I'm really having a hard time, you know, trusting you.

Speaker 2 When you pull back, be like, I'm not going to,

Speaker 2 I'm not going to be with you this weekend, but I need you to share your location with me.

Speaker 2 Okay. I mean, listen, again, like it,

Speaker 2 you're, you're kind of in this gray area. And I'm sure some people listening will be like, oh, you have to share your location.
It's just like, you, you, you don't know this guy.

Speaker 2 You've only been dating him for five months. Right.
Right. We want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
But like, again, his actions are showing otherwise.

Speaker 2 So this is a person who should be happy to give his location. He should be happy to show you his phone.
You know what I'm saying? Because if he's telling the truth, then your boyfriend is a victim of

Speaker 2 coincidence. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 And if you're in, and every once in a while, we are a victim of coincidence or circumstance. And it can feel real shitty to be like,

Speaker 2 I hate that I'm being accused of this thing. I definitely did, but

Speaker 2 I see why you,

Speaker 2 listen, I see why you feel the way because if I were your shoes, so like, how do we get out of this? You know, that can happen. It's not impossible.

Speaker 2 But when that does happen, the people who are wrongfully accused are very, very quick to do, what, how can I show you? I got nothing to hide. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 So it's not about you being like, show me your location.

Speaker 2 He should be as enthusiastic. to share as you are reluctant to ask.
You know what I'm saying? He should be trying to figure out what he can do to

Speaker 2 answer these questions about these bad coincidences he's been a victim of.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, good luck. Thank you so much.

Speaker 6 It was really, really helpful.

Speaker 2 Please keep us posted what you find.

Speaker 3 I most certainly will.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 Trust your gut, you know, trust your gut. And again, remember, trusting your gut is following up on things that have already happened.
And being crazy is

Speaker 2 know is making up a story you know in your head about possibilities it's reacting to possibilities and you are reacting to events right right so anytime you question you're like should i really be doing this did something happen did you get the answers you needed no then you have the right to ask for these some of these things that we're we're suggesting you ask for you know if it's more like you're if you know you just feeling insecure and and all of a sudden your boyfriend you know after three days you feel a little disconnected he hasn't been as affectionate maybe that doesn't mean like he's cheating on you you know what i'm saying like that's different than being like you caught him snapchatting at 2 a.m right you found underwear in his drawer

Speaker 2 that's not the same as him being a little distant for a week you know what i'm saying right you know you asking to see his phone because he's been distant is you maybe demonstrating a little bit of craziness um so but i think it's important to point out because i think a lot of us struggle you know in those situations because no one wants to be crazy No one wants to question people and no one wants to be wrongfully accused.

Speaker 2 Yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 6 So. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 Trust your gut. I will.
All right. Take care.

Speaker 3 Thank you. You too.
All right. Bye-bye.
Bye.

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Speaker 2 How's it going?

Speaker 3 Hi, I'm Jen, 28 years old. Am I being ghosted or am I doing the ghosting?

Speaker 2 I would think you would know. Why are you confused? Paint me a situation as to why you're not sure if you're the one doing the ghosting or if you're being ghosted.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 3 So we matched on Hinge about five weeks ago. I've gone on like five or six dates.
The communication has been pretty consistent since the beginning.

Speaker 3 He's like always asking questions, trying to keep the conversation going. At times I even feel like the questions are.
a little ridiculous just to feel like keep it going.

Speaker 3 Over the last couple of weeks, it's like slowly teetered down a little bit.

Speaker 3 and i tried to maturely ask if there was something up he basically just blamed it on work so i kind of got in my own head being like okay this is my own stuff like i'm assuming the worst how long have you been hanging out with this guy like a month and a half and how many dates have you been on six are you hooking up yeah okay all right he bone i'm just trying to get some context that's all so i was like okay i'm just gonna take him at face value then like he starts taking longer and longer to reply the text messages are just getting like much less engaging.

Speaker 3 I felt like I kind of did my part by trying to be like, hey, I feel like there's something off. He obviously like chose not to be honest, whatever.
And so Saturday, I just kind of got like a very

Speaker 3 text, couple texts from him, didn't really feel like there was anything to say back. So I decided to leave it and just kind of like gift space and see what's up.

Speaker 3 So I texted him back Monday, basically just saying, you know, it's been a busy week, like happy Monday. And then crickets, nothing.

Speaker 2 And you haven't heard from him since? No.

Speaker 2 What makes you think you're ghosting? Because you just haven't followed up with me.

Speaker 3 Because I purposely didn't reply on Saturday.

Speaker 2 Who sent the last message?

Speaker 6 I did.

Speaker 3 Well, he did on Saturday, and then I took two days to reply.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.
Do you have the messages? Can I?

Speaker 3 Do you want me to read them? I'll read them. Yeah, yeah, read them.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I'm just giving you some context.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 3 So I sent him a photo of my Christmas tree on Saturday because he said he wanted to see it. He said, I like the tree.
Then he said, looking real festive. Then he said, and it lights up.

Speaker 3 And then I had mentioned I was tired. So he said, go get some sleep, girl.

Speaker 3 And then I heard one of the messages and then replied yesterday and was like sorry i updated my phone i had only seen one of the texts come through in the beginning but happy monday and they didn't respond to that no and now it's tuesday yeah now it's been like 24 hours well why don't you just ask him what did you ask him before like when you so i asked him okay yeah how did you confront it like read me that message yeah so last week was our like six time hanging out i feel like he's pursued me like pretty heavily always like making plans within the week always like making sure that we talk about doing something the next thing when we're together.

Speaker 3 He came over to mine like a week ago and we like were going to watch this TV show. So we watched it.
I tried to like initiate us hooking up. It didn't seem like he was into it.

Speaker 3 And then after the show, it was like nine o'clock. So it wasn't like super late.
He gets up, checks his phone and goes, you're going to hate me. I need to leave.
Really awkward.

Speaker 3 Just like a very weird.

Speaker 2 On a Saturday, what night was this?

Speaker 3 I mean, it was like, oh, Tuesday or Wednesday, but like he stayed over before on a work work night.

Speaker 2 So at this point, you had hooked up a few times. And when you have hooked up, one of you spent the night.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 2 And this time he's over. You guys are watching a movie.
You tried to hook up. He didn't seem to be that into it.
And then randomly was like, you're going to hate me, but I got to go.

Speaker 7 Yeah. Did you say why?

Speaker 3 It was just very awkward.

Speaker 3 I kind of like asked, oh, like, why he said work. So he leaves and I call my sister and she's like, you should just text him.
So I was like, okay, I'm going to just be straight up.

Speaker 3 So I asked him, hold on. I said, I've always been a major intuition person.
And ever since this weekend, something seemed off. Am I in my head here or what's going on?

Speaker 3 He says, to be honest, I think I'm going through a quarter life crisis. And then he texted me again.
I don't know. I think I'm going to quit my job.

Speaker 3 Historically, I play like a lot of games, but I'm 28. Like, I really want to get married.
I've always like dated guys who are not emotionally available.

Speaker 3 So I was, I'm really trying to like not play games. So I replied and I said, I'm sorry I didn't realize the work stuff was so bad.
I think it's normal to feel this way sometimes.

Speaker 3 I know I have a few different times. How can I be there for you? And then I followed it up by saying, thanks so much for telling me.
I felt a little hurt because I didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 3 I felt you pulling away a bit. He said, it just got me down right now.
LOL. And then he changed the subject.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, the story's not adding up because, like, if he was having a midlife crisis and thinking about quitting his job, I don't know why he would have gotten up on a Tuesday night and left for quote-unquote work.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? People who are like on the verge of randomly quitting their job are like having a sense of like, fuck this job. Why am I wasting energy on this job? That's not fulfilling.

Speaker 2 I mean, anyways. Also, second of all, like, I just think in general,

Speaker 2 this is definitely a generalization. If he really liked you, it would be enough, so to speak.
Right. You know, I agree.
I hope that doesn't hurt your ego. But if he liked you,

Speaker 2 if he liked you in the way that you, I'm assuming, would like to be liked by by him yes then you would offer a sense of stability you would offer a sense of comfort you know how old is this guy by the way um like 27-ish he's probably like a little less than a year younger than me yeah listen i definitely had gone through like a quarter life crisis in my life when i was like around that age i was 25 but that was because i didn't feel like the things i had hoped and planned for myself were all happening and i think that's very common in your mid-25s because i like i've always said i think you know we make this mistake you know especially with society being what it is now in terms of our expectations on on young adults and when we expect them to get married and settle down I think there's pros and cons to both you know I was thinking about this the other night it's just like I think it's almost kind of crazy you know back in the day you know in the 60s 50s whatever whatever year or whatever minus maybe to the 2000s it was just like you know high school college get married right and it's just like man we were just telling all these young adults who have like really limited experience when it comes to love to just like decide on a life partner.

Speaker 2 And it's like the equivalent of like giving a Ferrari to someone who's never driven a car before and just saying, figure it out. You know? Right.

Speaker 2 And we wonder why so many of those relationships like ended in a terrible car crash, so to speak, right? Metaphorically speaking.

Speaker 2 On the flip side, we now, you know, have a society that's almost like the extreme of like, now it's like we're expecting nothing from our 20-year-olds where it's just like it's all about being selfish and YOLO and travel and yada yada.

Speaker 2 And everyone's in these situationships now and no one's committing to anything because everyone's confused and no one wants they want for themselves and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 You know, the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Speaker 2 But to that end, I just like, my point is, is like, I don't think he's having a midlife crisis is as much as I'm be willing to bet that he's looking at his life as a 27-year-old man and he, you know, and on some version thinking, this is not what I expected for myself when I was 19.

Speaker 2 He's not actually saying that.

Speaker 2 I don't think he's actually able to like probably process that, but I'd be willing at the end of the day, if I were talking to him, we'd probably drill down to that, that general feeling is that like this man had some sort of ambitions and hopes and like whatever what does he do for work he's in sales so okay um yeah and how successful do you think he is i know he has a lot of responsibility okay yeah so yeah do you what does he sell i mean i think it's just like tech okay i'm also in tech sales it's like a grind so yeah right so you know it and like depend and depending on you know the type of job what's you're asked of you how successful you are it can feel like is this is it am i meant for this right i mean you think about sales as someone who used to be in sales before COVID, before like every job became like work from home, like it was usually like the sales job that had a lot of flexibility compared to like, you know, my friends who are engineers or accountants or whatever other typical like jobs.

Speaker 2 So sales. So you had this like sales job, right? And they offered you some flexibility.

Speaker 2 And if you're good at sales, like you, you tended to like make a little bit of money compared to like someone who like was a teacher or whatever.

Speaker 2 To which all my friends who weren't in sales would say, oh, I should get a sales job. And I'd be like, by all means, go get a sales job.

Speaker 2 But like, you know, you get told no a thousand times a day, you know, like for all the people who are successful, there's 10 people who aren't successful, right?

Speaker 2 And so maybe your boyfriend is someone who got into sales because he saw someone making all this money or someone told him he should do this and blah, blah, blah. Now he's doing it.

Speaker 2 He's not as good as he thought he would or should be and yada yada. Now he's struggling with it.
Maybe it's just because he's impatient. I don't know.
We're not here to diagnose this guy.

Speaker 2 But the point is, based on what I'm hearing, I'm hearing that, like, you know, listen, he's not happy with where he's at in life. And right now, you're in his life.

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 2 you know, I think you can come to your answer pretty quickly by just like taking your ego out of it and being like, listen, I don't know.

Speaker 2 It's certainly not just you. You know what I'm saying? And like to say like, you should be enough is a little heavy-handed.

Speaker 2 But I think my point still stands is that like, maybe it is his job that's driving, you know, this more than anything. But he's probably overreacting about life in general.

Speaker 2 And he's just not as excited about you as he should be or is that you want him to.

Speaker 2 And more importantly, if you are, in fact, intentional and serious about finding someone to really build a connection with, this guy who's just like kind of unhappy where he's at in life is, isn't your guy.

Speaker 2 He's got some shit to figure it out, and he's probably not going to want to figure it out with you. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Okay. No, I agree.

Speaker 3 I think that's like the pattern that I'm noticing is I feel like, and this is what happened with him.

Speaker 6 I'm definitely a girlfriend girl.

Speaker 3 I've been in like several like three-year relationships like since college.

Speaker 3 So dating in between, I feel like they start off really excited and then like something switches, which is what happened with him. And then I'm left being like, I want to know exactly what happened.

Speaker 2 How many dates did you guys have before you hooked up?

Speaker 3 We hooked up on the third date.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 Listen, I don't know if you've heard my thoughts about hookup culture, but as

Speaker 2 you have to separate hookup culture and dating culture. And right now, dating culture has become hookup culture.

Speaker 2 And that just makes dating harder for everyone, even the men, even the men who just want to fuck around and have some sex.

Speaker 2 You know, like I've said before, every fuckboy is eventually someone's future husband or wife. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 So even the most fuckboy fuckboys someday probably want to settle down and have kids and get married, but they're like 28, 29, good looking, tall, and they have their options of all these women.

Speaker 2 who are also looking for husbands and they have maybe the best intentions, but like because the dialogue about around dating is what it is where it's just like well you know i'd like you but i'm not sure if i want to rush in anything and like you know like i think we're dating but not exclusive whatever that bullshit is or it's just like you know this whole like long journey to become boyfriend and girlfriend but i think we should you know but we should definitely have sex you know and it's just like okay but like again like sex is a big part of of building a connection and like there is a time and a place for it and and and listen it just is what it is it's like again men respond differently to sex than women and it's just like when you have sex with someone, it definitely takes out the excitement of wondering what it's like to have sex with someone.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 And the wonder to have sex with someone is a very useful tool to keep men engaged. It just is, you know, it just is.
So

Speaker 2 this is all to say.

Speaker 2 If you find yourself to be a relationship girly who has gone from one serious relationship to another in most of her 20s has been filled this kind of like pretty good but not great relationships where you find yourself like why am I dating this person?

Speaker 2 Like, what are we working towards? What's going on?

Speaker 2 And listen, like I said this before, like when we're 20, 21, why we get into relationships is a lot different than why we get into relationships when we're 30.

Speaker 2 When you were 20, you're just like, I don't know, I feel something. Let's date.
Fuck it. Cool.
Well, you're my boyfriend. I like you.
It's that simple.

Speaker 2 Now that you're 28, you're like, well, I like you, but, you know, like, you remind me of the guy I used to date. And this is like, why would I date the same guy? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 Where we have more input, we have more data. And now we have to change our behavior.

Speaker 2 But the fact that you're still hooking up very quickly with these men and then expecting either of you to be able to like clearly understand how both of you are feeling about the other person, even though like the mystery of sex has been removed from the relationship makes it more difficult, you know?

Speaker 2 And I, as I often say, like a guy, speaking for most men, again, I'm generalizing here, exceptions to every rule.

Speaker 2 Most men need to be obsessed with having sex with you in order to stick around long enough to get to know you, to be able to like you enough to stick around regardless of what the sex is like.

Speaker 2 Does that make sense?

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay. That's interesting.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I feel I have two sisters and I don't have like a bunch of guy friends.
So it's interesting to hear a guy's perspective.

Speaker 2 And I'm saying this as an opinion because I'm not an expert, but these are facts. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 And anyone who wants to disagree with me is just in denial. Like, you know, and again, exceptions to every rule.
There are some women who seem more man-ish when it comes to sex.

Speaker 2 And there are some men who have a more of a softer side to them that maybe approach sex more like women.

Speaker 2 But generally speaking, if you're going to hook up with a guy early in a dating situation, you are losing some power. You just are.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Okay. That's fair.

Speaker 3 I agree with that.

Speaker 2 Now, that being said, you know, like, you definitely don't want this guy to stick around just because he wants to see what you look like naked, you know?

Speaker 6 No, no, no.

Speaker 3 I feel like there's a lack of emotional intelligence from him, which at first I was like very upset in the initial

Speaker 3 realization of all of this, but now it's just kind of been like a turn off.

Speaker 3 So now I feel like the curiosity is like more so an ego thing and less of like a, I'm just, I, I'm just curious, but I also don't want to ask. Ask what? But I've already been like clearly left on red.

Speaker 3 Like I just wish he would be like, give me a straight answer.

Speaker 2 Why are you unwilling to make an answer for yourself?

Speaker 6 Like,

Speaker 2 I could make one, but what but you don't yeah we all can do things you know what i'm saying like we talk so much about like maintaining our power and keeping all these buzzwords we all like throw out but like you know you have to understand the meaning of these words and then apply them to your life right so if you have ever with your girls or to yourself thought it was important as a woman to maintain her power in a relationship have you ever in any way had a conversation like that or thought that to yourself or watched a tick tock where someone's like, you girls, maintain your power and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 And you're like, yeah, we should.

Speaker 2 Well, then you need to act accordingly and maintaining your power. It's not saying, well, I could do that, but I'm not going to.
I could make a decision, but I'm going to let them make a decision.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? I could take control of the situation, but I don't want to take control of the situation. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Like, if you want to maintain your power, then you have to be powerful in your decisions. You have to take the initiative.
You have to take control.

Speaker 2 At times, listen, and I'm not talking about like, yeah, when you enter enter in a relationship if you're more traditional and you want to have a man lead so to speak and you want him to be chivalrous you can have all those things right it's about finding that balance but while you're a single lady out there fending for yourself in this crazy dating world of fuckboys and situationships and hookups

Speaker 2 you're gonna have to like set healthy boundaries enforce those boundaries make decisions for yourself take the lead take charge not wait for people to make decisions because it's easier for them to make a decision for you to make a decision for yourself.

Speaker 6 right

Speaker 2 okay that's helpful that's good if i were you i would just decide for yourself if this relationship is serving you in the way that you need how long you've been hanging out with this guy like a month and a half but i mean i just got out of like a year relationship a couple months ago so perhaps i'm like perhaps maybe you need to be a single girly for like a year right and listen if you want to around and have some sex then participate in hookup culture and listen like yeah maybe you'll meet the man of your dreams you know what i'm saying but like it's just about like being honest with yourself.

Speaker 2 I've talked about this all like with every call, like the last caller is a different topic, but like, you got to be honest with yourself about why you do what you do, whatever it is that you do, right?

Speaker 2 So, if it's like, I want to, I want to have sex with this guy tonight, then have sex with him, but be honest with yourself about, like, I'm doing this because I think he looks good, he smells good, kind of see what his dick looks like, I'm horny, whatever the reason, but it's because

Speaker 2 you want to have sex. You're not going to have sex because you've convinced yourself it might make him like you more.
That, you know, like playing house or whatever.

Speaker 2 Sex will never make a guy like you more, ever. Never.

Speaker 2 He might like having sex with you, you know, but it won't make him like you more. Men are able to objectify sex.
They are.

Speaker 2 And when they're having sex with someone who's essentially a stranger and this man is a stranger to you,

Speaker 2 it's even easier. And they've never fallen in love with a woman over sex.
They have fallen in love with having sex with women, but they have never fallen in love with those women because of sex.

Speaker 2 Men fall in love with people through missing them, through built, you know, like from wondering what it's like to have sex. That's how they fall in love.

Speaker 2 You know, the mystery behind things, building a connection. Men need to feel supported, you know, because men can be weak.

Speaker 2 They are little babies, emotional little babies that don't know how to show their emotions. And when they feel taken care of and when they feel safe and secure, that's when they start falling in love.

Speaker 2 They do not fall in love with sex.

Speaker 2 If there's no point I get across to my audience before I ever stop doing this is that for all the people out there participating in hookup culture, no man will ever fall in love with you because you put out.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's good to hear. Well, I feel like I need to hear it.

Speaker 2 But I hope that you find that to be empowering because I'm not saying don't ever have sex. I'm saying when you want to have sex, you have sex because you want to get laid.
And that's it. Right.

Speaker 2 And you know what? Have some fun with it. Objectify him in a way.
Yeah. You get what I'm saying, though.

Speaker 2 But like I'm saying, imagine all the times that you, if you would have known that if I have sex with this man tonight the only thing that's gonna happen is we're both gonna maybe get off I mean he's probably gonna get off but who knows if I'm gonna get off you know but it won't change how he feels about me imagine how many men you might not have had sex with you know okay it would have saved you like that trip to urgent care you know

Speaker 2 We all know all the other things that come along with hookah culture that we don't talk about that like day after hangover, like, why did I do that?

Speaker 2 You know, and then the days where you don't actually wear a condom or you started with a condom but you didn't finish with a condom and then you have to go to urgent care and then kind of like i don't want to get an s t detail and you kind of whisper in there because you don't want to be able to hear you and then those three days of like just hoping that you like you don't have anything you know what i'm saying all these crazy things that we think to ourselves like when we're going through those days of like finding out like you know what i'm saying like you could avoid all that by just simply being honest with yourself about why you're having sex with these men.

Speaker 2 Okay. And then as far as dating, when you do meet a guy that you like, take it slow.
Yeah. And men will throw a fit.

Speaker 2 They'll be, you know, try to make you feel like, oh, I'm not like that, especially when you're like, well, I want to move slow. But like, if a guy really likes you, he will stick around.

Speaker 2 He'll, he'll wait forever. He will.
Okay. He really will.
If they like you enough, they will wait.

Speaker 6 Okay. All right.
All right.

Speaker 3 I believe you.

Speaker 2 Okay. So as far as this guy, listen, I don't think he's your guy.

Speaker 2 I think you should take charge of your dating life and you should make a decision about this guy and you should stop waiting around from him.

Speaker 2 I'm pretty sure that you are interested in starting a relationship with someone who claims to be going through a midlife crisis, who is about to quit a job without knowing what they want to do next.

Speaker 2 That's not your guy. So take him at his word and you're not his therapist.
You're not even his girlfriend. You're not his mom.
You're not his friend.

Speaker 2 So it's not your job to be there for him in this moment.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 All right. Good luck.
Keep us posted. I'd love to know in the future future

Speaker 2 what you've done with this information and how it's impacted your dating life.

Speaker 6 I will.

Speaker 3 I will. I'll keep you posted.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 All right. Take care.

Speaker 6 Bye-bye.

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Speaker 2 How's it going?

Speaker 6 Hi, I'm John. I'm 33.

Speaker 6 Broke up with...

Speaker 2 girlfriend about two months ago having some issues kind of moving past the relationship okay all right well i'm your perfect guy to talk about this stuff man i uh more than anything, the thing that got me in to doing this type of shit and giving advice is I was, uh, I had a hard time getting over some heartbreaks, man.

Speaker 2 And I definitely made it way, way worse on myself. I did all the things that make heartbreak even more, more hard.

Speaker 2 Um, so hopefully, hopefully I'll be, you'll be able to leave this call with some, at least, uh, a couple helpful tips or takeaways, but we'll see. We'll see how it goes.

Speaker 2 Uh, how long did you date this person for?

Speaker 6 About a year and a couple months.

Speaker 2 Okay. And she ended it?

Speaker 6 She ended it.

Speaker 2 Okay. Out of nowhere? Did you kind feel it coming? Were you guys like kind of disconnected for a while? Like, how did that all play out?

Speaker 6 Um, it, it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was out of nowhere. Um, it was, it was kind of coming in a sense.
This year, I really struggled personally with like mental health stuff. Okay.

Speaker 6 And uh, my, my, uh, coping mechanism is, is self-isolation and kind of internalizing everything. Okay.

Speaker 6 And I guess, you know, what that looks like on the opposite end is, is her feeling, you know, distant and kind of feeling like she was searching for me for the last four or so months of our relationship.

Speaker 2 That's very honest for you to say. I am curious because you very eloquently stated that.
When did you become aware of that? And why was it kind of so obvious for you to say that now?

Speaker 2 I'm guessing in the past few months of your relationship, she probably tried to address this. I guess, how did you handle this frustration that she had while you guys were dating?

Speaker 6 I think I was, I don't know if it was ego or pride, or I think I was more concerned with trying to not burden burden her and kind of deal with it on my own.

Speaker 6 So I, you know, the answer would always be, you know, I'm fine. Everything's fine.
You know, everything's going to get better. Everything's going to be good.

Speaker 6 And that was, you know, obviously not truthful in the sense of the reality of the situation, but it was my way of, I don't know, trying to not burden her, I guess.

Speaker 2 If you don't mind me sharing, what were some of the things that you felt like you were struggling with at the time, or maybe you still are?

Speaker 6 I own a business. This year has been financially just insane, just ups and downs, ups and downs.
So, you know, as a man, I guess I kind of felt defeated in a lot of ways.

Speaker 6 I've had this business for about three years and it really took a toll mentally this year.

Speaker 6 You know, as owning a business, you don't really have anybody else to turn to when things go awry. You have to kind of figure it out yourself.

Speaker 6 And when you run out of resources to figure it out, you kind of just,

Speaker 6 you're at your wit's end, really.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I can relate.

Speaker 2 And yeah, it's definitely a challenge for for sure so when you were running this business and at times you know the peaks and valleys the extremes of running a business are definitely real even that like did you share that with her so like hey the business it's just like i'm really i got some fears or whatever it's crazy did you go as far as talking about that or were you just like i'm good it's fine yeah for sure she she she was aware of it she was definitely supportive of it you know she's she's always made it a point to make sure that you know money isn't important to to her and, you know, that, you know, something can be figured out.

Speaker 6 So.

Speaker 2 And then in the moment, how did that feel? I don't know.

Speaker 6 It felt, you know, in a sense, reassuring. But at the end of the day, I know that kind words and reassurance doesn't, doesn't, you know, make my business prosper.
So.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 But did you feel like you made her feel like she had a positive impact on you? Because you're right. I mean, listen, like, I don't know what your business is, but you're right.

Speaker 2 Like a pat on the back isn't going to like bring in new customers, so to speak. I completely get your logic.

Speaker 2 At the same time, we all want to feel like we add value to our relationships and we can help our partners.

Speaker 2 You know, there's, it's a very, no one wants to feel like they have no positive impact on a relationship and there's nothing they can really do.

Speaker 2 And then like, it's like in your case, I appreciate where you're coming from, but I can appreciate how you have to be kind of very delicate in your delivery at the risk you could come across as very dismissive, almost like, I don't want to say condescending, but in a way where it's just like, yeah, great.

Speaker 2 Thanks for the support, but that doesn't help me pay, you know, that doesn't help me get to next year, so to speak, which could make her feel very like, well, what good am I in this relationship?

Speaker 2 So you got to be able to find that balance of appreciating the support of we'll get through this, but not making her feel like she didn't help you at all. Am I making sense?

Speaker 6 Yes, absolutely. And that was one of the things that she had mentioned was that in those moments that she was being supportive, that it did feel like I was dismissive.

Speaker 6 And, you know, reflectively, I definitely was. It was never like a,

Speaker 6 and I've explained this to her, you know, it was never like a conscious thing. Like, you know, I thought after her gesture, like, oh, you know, let me be dismissive.

Speaker 6 It was never like something I consciously thought about before I said it. It was just like a natural reaction of maybe defensiveness.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 I even think she would probably believe that you didn't do it on purpose. You know what I'm saying? And it was probably just something you reacted to in the moment.

Speaker 2 And a lot of when we're reactive, we're reactive usually off of fear.

Speaker 2 I mean, when you own your own business, you wake up every day with a lot of like fear if we're like, you know, kind of keeping it real and real and drilling it down to like the most basic root of our emotions, like a fear of not making it, a fear of not being successful.

Speaker 2 Like as a man, right? Like whether it's internalized pressure we put on ourselves, society pressure, you know, it's like we want to prove our worth. We want to feel accomplished.

Speaker 2 We want to like, you know, be proud of the work we're doing. And then, you know, also, we just want to also be able to pay our bills.

Speaker 2 And there's all these things as a, you know, a young man that you're like struggling with. Right.

Speaker 2 And I think also at times, I think us men kind of struggle with like, you know, and I think it's a double-edged sword too, because I think there's a little bit of, it's like, we, you want us to be vulnerable, but when we're vulnerable, we give you the ick, you know?

Speaker 2 I think men have that kind of fear. when it comes to our partners.
It's just like, you want us to be vulnerable, but you want us to be strong at the same time.

Speaker 2 And it's trying to strike that balance between being completely vulnerable with our partners, but also like not being so vulnerable that, you know, our partners are like, I don't know how to help this guy.

Speaker 2 Does any of that kind of translate?

Speaker 6 Yeah, for sure. And that was like an internal fight for myself.
Like, how much do I make myself vulnerable versus not? And how does that translate into the relationship?

Speaker 6 You know, if I, if I'm completely brutally honest, is she going to be like, holy shit, like, I got to go.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Totally. Are you in any kind of therapy?

Speaker 6 Yeah. I actually started seeing a therapist immediately after.
So we had like a brief little breakup thing earlier this year. We had never gotten into a fight.

Speaker 6 We got into a bad fight one week and she broke up with me and she was just like, whoa, this is too much.

Speaker 6 And then after some reflection, you know, blah, blah, blah, we got back together and then everything was good up until, you know, obviously later in the year. But therapy is so expensive.

Speaker 6 And I was literally dumping all of my money into my business. And my business is very seasonal.

Speaker 6 So towards the end of this year, when the season hit for me, that was like one of the first things I did was

Speaker 6 get into therapy.

Speaker 2 Well, that's good. And yeah, it definitely can be expensive.

Speaker 2 And it's just one of those things where, as I'm sure you know, as a business owner, you just have to like constantly priorize expenses and costs and figure out like which have the most meaningful impacts.

Speaker 2 And, you know, as someone who like right now is going through a breakup and kind of reflecting on his breakup and wondering like trying to strike that balance between being vulnerable with your partner, but not being too vulnerable, that the fact that you kind of unload too much too soon, whether it's therapy or having a mentor or a friend that you really feel comfortable, part of it is just like, you kind of need someone to unload on in a way, you know?

Speaker 2 And if that's your therapist, that you can just kind of walk into a room and be like, hey, I'm paying you. So I'm just going to like be raw as fuck because I don't even care what you think about me.

Speaker 2 And I'll leave the room and you're going to collect the paycheck. Or you just have a friend or, you know, back in the day when I was,

Speaker 2 you know, in my late 20s,

Speaker 2 my therapists were always like these middle-aged women I worked with you know that like they were like 10 15 years older than me and they like loved to hear my dating stories and live vicariously through me and so I kind of like trusted them and I didn't really give a shit what they thought so I could just kind of vent to them and shit like that but that was helpful, you know, because like at the end of the day, you just got to get it out, right?

Speaker 2 And it's striking that balance between like you want to have your partner and you want to obviously they want to be your main support system, but like sometimes you just want to like get shit off your chest and maybe you don't want to be quite so vulnerable with someone you know I've only been dating for a year.

Speaker 2 Something to consider. Let's go back to the breakup.
Do you know why specifically she broke up with you? Is it very much this, or are there other things you're wondering?

Speaker 2 Like, could it be another guy or shit like that?

Speaker 6 No, it's definitely couldn't be another guy. She's just, she's just not that

Speaker 6 type of woman.

Speaker 6 That, that, that, I have no concerns over. No, it's definitely, it's definitely the, you know, she saw a lot of self-destructiveness.

Speaker 6 And I think I remember her saying it's like, uh, like ingrained in my brain.

Speaker 6 She, she said, I think verbatim, she spent so much time in the last few months searching for me that she started to lose herself.

Speaker 6 She, she, she just got to a point where she, she felt like she was lost when she was looking for me and she just couldn't, she couldn't be in that place anymore.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I have a close friend who's going through a similar situation that you went through.
My friend is a woman. Her partner.
is also a business owner.

Speaker 2 He made a big bet not too long ago and that bet didn't work out. Right.
He's a little older than you. And so I think he's really struggling with like his value.

Speaker 2 You know, like, I think we make a big bet and it doesn't work out, especially when it comes to our careers and we're kind of, we feel middle-aged, whatever age that is, you know, 30, 40, you know, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 It's all kind of relative. It can really have an impact on us.
It can really fuck us up. It can really fuck us, especially us guys.
And as a result, it's really affected their relationship.

Speaker 2 He sometimes just ignores her at times. He really pulls back.
And for her version of the story is like, you'll ignore me for two or three days. You know, she's trying to connect with him.

Speaker 2 She's trying to like understand him. He's just quiet.
He's a bit introverted at times. It's one thing to pull away, but he's like, he doesn't even engage with her.

Speaker 2 And they're on the verge of breaking up because she's just like, I don't, I don't, it's like, I can't do anything here. I don't know if any of that rings a bell or resonates with you.

Speaker 2 But just hearing her perspective, yeah, it's just like, how do you... How do you date someone who's just not in the relationship? You know, because I can sit there and hear, I can hear her story.

Speaker 2 And as a business owner and as a guy, I can let her know, hey, this is how I think he feels right now. And I can empathize with him like crazy.

Speaker 2 I can really paint a picture for her that better helps understand where he might be coming from.

Speaker 2 I'm still like, well, unless he figures it out, you need to end this relationship because he's not giving you anything. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 It's just like, yeah, he's down bad, but he needs to like pick himself back up, get to work and fucking muscle through and figure it out.

Speaker 2 And in the meantime, he needs to be willing to still be able to connect with you and open up and be a partner, right?

Speaker 2 And I think sometimes when us guys are really struggling with our professional lives, and I think sometimes society tells us if we're not where we need to be professionally, then we're not capable of being partners we want to be, you know?

Speaker 2 And I think sometimes that's like internal pressure us guys put on ourselves. I think sometimes it's society pressure we put on ourselves.

Speaker 2 And sometimes I think that's pressure, you know, women can put on us, whether they mean to or not, you know? I think it's a combination of all those things. But either way, my point still stands.

Speaker 2 And the point i think your ex-girlfriend was making is i can't be your girlfriend if you don't want to be my boyfriend it sounds like you were so mentally just like worried about the business and understandably so that like you just forgot how to be a boyfriend to her for sure when was the last time you guys spoke been

Speaker 6 a couple weeks i uh so we we were in communication post breakup It was a lot of conversations and which kind of confused me too, is because, you know, we'd have conversations.

Speaker 6 Like one night she randomly called me you know like a month after we broke up and we had you know we talked we talked on the phone for like three hours the next day she was like uh you know that brought me so much peace uh to speak to you and it's you know it's effortless when we have conversations you know and you know that's how it always is i mean even right up to the day we broke up we talked to each other like six seven eight times a day on the phone I was out of town on working.

Speaker 6 So that's that's why. But, you know, even if we're, we're not together for the day, I mean, up until the point we broke up, it was like that.

Speaker 6 But, and then after this three-hour conversation, you know, the next couple of weeks, you know, it was text like, I can't imagine my life with anybody else.

Speaker 6 You know, I dream of a time when we can work out. I just don't know when, where, or how.

Speaker 2 She's saying this?

Speaker 6 She's saying this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then how did you respond?

Speaker 6 I just, I said, well, if that's how you really feel, then why, why are we, why are we splitting now and not putting in the work now?

Speaker 2 Well, I'll tell you why, because she doesn't feel like she has a choice.

Speaker 6 And that was her response.

Speaker 2 You know, but do you understand where she's coming from?

Speaker 6 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 What you're telling me sounds a lot like my friend. And my friend being the woman in that situation, like it, it sounds very similar.
And I can tell you my friend wants to make it work with this guy.

Speaker 2 Very much so. She really does.
In fact, I'm like, you need to break up. Like, it's not going anywhere.
And they've almost broken up multiple times.

Speaker 2 And I like the guy. He's a nice guy, but like, he's just giving her nothing.
And it's like, you can't, you just can't be in it by yourself. And she's still fighting for this relationship.

Speaker 2 She's having a hard time letting go, but she cares about him.

Speaker 2 I'm hearing from you that this woman is, she's still holding out hope that you guys could end up together, but she's probably as a, you know, she's probably talking to her friends, maybe her therapist or whatever.

Speaker 2 And she's probably saying things like, the guy just like shuts down on me. He like, he's distant, and I'm trying my best to connect with him.
He gives me nothing. And I just feel like I'm useless.

Speaker 2 I feel like I'm not doing anything. I'm just kind of sitting there.
I feel, I feel very alone. I bet I bet she has used the phrase, I feel very alone in this relationship.

Speaker 6 Yeah, she said that to me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And she's told her friend. So what do you think you can do about it?

Speaker 2 I mean, do you think that, I mean, based on what you're telling me, that there's still hope if you want to get back together with this girl? Do you think she's your girl?

Speaker 2 Like, do you, and now you have to ask yourself, despite me having a hard time with this breakup, because I don't doubt you care about her. I don't doubt you miss her.

Speaker 2 I don't doubt you do miss the comforts of having a girlfriend and that emotional support that comes with having a a girlfriend. It already feels alone to own a business by yourself.

Speaker 2 Like you said, it's just like, you know, I think as business owners, you're sometimes every, every once in a while, you're like, I can't, what the fuck am I doing, man?

Speaker 2 Like, I'm just kind of like winging this shit, you know, and you're following, you're following your instincts. And good for you, your instincts have gotten you this far.

Speaker 2 But it feels like sometimes you wish you could just like have, like most people who have bosses and they have bosses and those people have bosses.

Speaker 2 You kind of wish you could be like, hey, just point me in the right direction, man. Like, you know, give me some advice.
So you already feel alone as a business owner.

Speaker 2 And I imagine having a partner or a girlfriend helps make you feel less alone now that she has left you you have to feel that rejection you feel even more isolated and alone but my question to you is do you think she's your person or are you just hurting from this relationship ending because i think there's a world where you could save this relationship but the question is do you really want to and is it the right thing for you to do because listen this relationship is going to take work it's going to require sacrifice you're going to have to find moments to be able to disconnect from your job so that you can connect with her.

Speaker 2 And that has a cost. You know what I'm saying? Like, a relationships are work.
And work towards a relationship is work away from your business.

Speaker 2 Now, you can make the argument that, like, having a healthy relationship will ultimately make you a better, more well-rounded person and ultimately have long-term benefits on your career.

Speaker 2 But like, that is a choice you need to make.

Speaker 6 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think

Speaker 6 the balance of,

Speaker 6 you know, owning the business and then, you know, the the family aspect and being able to balance everything is what I lack.

Speaker 6 And I think in those moments, that's when I was

Speaker 6 shut down.

Speaker 6 And I think that when you have somebody that loves you in the back of your mind, maybe selfishly, you just assume that, like, hey, like, I can put this on the back burner and not fuck this, but like, I don't have to think about this at this exact moment in time because I have like all this other shit going on.

Speaker 6 So I'm just going to focus on this and disconnect from this completely. And that was just, uh, that was obviously the

Speaker 6 catalyst to the ending of the relationship. And then that was where I lacked the most is finding that balance of like, okay, like I'm neglecting this area of my life.

Speaker 6 Like, I need to pull away from this, at least for the moment, and give into this and kind of transfer that energy. And that's something that I didn't do.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So, this is maybe just an exercise of kind of reprioritizing where your energy is going. I'd be willing to bet that you spend a lot of time worrying about your business, and and that's not productive.

Speaker 6 I spend a lot of time worrying about everything.

Speaker 2 There you go. Yeah.
Well, so you're like me. All right.
So as a professional worrier, I'm- Yes, I'm an overthinker.

Speaker 6 Brain, the noggin never stops. It's like a hamster wheel of like,

Speaker 6 what happens if this? What happens at that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, totally. Right.
So

Speaker 2 I very relate to you. You have to figure out which of these thoughts are benefiting from you and which are just like you ruminating over and over and over and over because those thoughts take energy.

Speaker 2 And that energy is not infinite it's it's it's cash on hand so you know think of it like think of it as just like your savings account for your business you know you can run out of energy you can run out of money you can run out of time these are all limited resources and as an overthinker as a professional worrier you are wasting a lot of energy and my point being is there's a world where you could try to figure out being more productive in your worrying so to speak and be more productive when you're when you are thinking about your business that you you are actually having productive thoughts that are actually moving the needle, that are actually getting you to make actionable decisions.

Speaker 2 And then when you're just worrying for the sake of worrying, that's shit you could learn how to turn off so that you could focus on being a boyfriend, you know, being a partner, right?

Speaker 2 Because right now you're spending a lot of time worrying about shit that you're not making decisions on. You're just worrying for the sake of worrying it.

Speaker 2 And that's time where you're disconnecting from your girlfriend and you're, you know what I'm saying? Like it's getting you nowhere, right? It's not helping your business.

Speaker 2 It's not helping your relationship. It's just something to do, but you're so used to doing it.
And I think as people who are professional warriors, there's a level of comfort you have.

Speaker 2 If I'm not worrying about my business, then I am not being, you know, like something could slip through the crack, so to speak. It's like I always have to be on.

Speaker 2 I think, you know, there's this kind of fear of as a business owner. I can tell you as a business owner, I have learned, especially in the past year, honestly, like.

Speaker 2 For me, a lot of my business is online, you know, for example, but I've hired people to be online for me.

Speaker 2 And so like when it comes to like being online as a a consumer, I have some healthy boundaries.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm very disconnected at times, you know, when I'm, when I'm, you know, it helps also being a dad, you know, like puts things in perspective when you have a fucking kid.

Speaker 2 And so for me, that's been helpful to like, I know how to disconnect from work. And so when I'm not working, I'm, you know, I very much try.

Speaker 2 Listen, as an overthinker, if you were to ask my wife, Natalie, she would tell you, I'm always thinking about work. I'm never turning things off.
But like, I have gotten better at just.

Speaker 2 turning it off, so to speak, and finding other outlets.

Speaker 2 And so you got, you have to think about that because it's one of those things, like when your partner says, I don't care about money and blah, blah, blah, you know, you have to find a way for that almost in a way to be helpful.

Speaker 2 Because you're thinking, Well, I care about money, and I don't want my business to fail, right?

Speaker 6 Yeah, well, I have I have two kids as well, so I that's you know, that's that's a huge stressor, yeah.

Speaker 2 Not with her, not with her, no. So, you you're you're co-parenting, yes, that's stressful, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 6 um, okay, it gets it gets better with time, okay.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, that's something

Speaker 2 So, you know, anyways, my point still stands about like, as a professional warrior, you have to learn how to control your thoughts.

Speaker 2 Because again, back to like when your partner says, I don't care about money.

Speaker 2 I just want to be, you know, hopefully you can take her at her word because like some people say they don't care about money and they do. So there is that.

Speaker 2 But I guess the point is when she says something like that, you almost have to be like, yeah, what if this business didn't work out? Would she be enough?

Speaker 2 If your business failed tomorrow, would having her soften the blow? You know, listen,

Speaker 2 you know, and would you be able to grieve the loss of your business for a period of a time, still having the support of your partner?

Speaker 2 And then at some point where you grave the loss of your business, let's say you grieved the loss of a heartbreak, you picked yourself back up, you got back to fucking work, and you figured it the fuck out, you know, whether it's...

Speaker 2 Working for the man or starting a new business. I don't know.
But like, if you kind of have that entrepreneurial spirit, then you kind of have a like, I'll just figure it the fuck out.

Speaker 2 You know, it might be, there'll be good times, there'll be bad times, but at the end of the day, I'll bet on myself, I'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 But in the meantime, I really like having this person in my life. And if you like having this person in your life, you have to, you have to, just like a business, you have to protect that.

Speaker 2 You have to prioritize it. You have to feed it.
You have to grow it. You have to give a shit.
Every day, relationships take a lot of work, just like businesses take a lot of work.

Speaker 2 And every day you have to do something for that relationship to make it work. You have to nourish it.
You have to feed it. You have to like prioritize it.
You have to give it some attention.

Speaker 2 You can't put a relationship. I mean, if you pieced out on your business for four days at a time,

Speaker 2 how successful do you think that business would be? Yeah. You know, so that's the same way as your relationship.

Speaker 2 So you have to ask yourself, do you have the bandwidth right now to prioritize both your business and a relationship?

Speaker 2 And if you think you do, and I'm guessing you do, because I'm guessing you're kind of wasting your time thinking about shit that's not going anywhere, but you just have to figure out how to do that.

Speaker 2 Was any of this helpful?

Speaker 6 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 When you're worrying about work, like when you usually worry about it, like when I say I think you're worrying about things that aren't like moving the needle, does that ring a bell?

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's, it's a constant. It's like I said, I'm very seasonally driven.
It's a, it's a, it's a tree care company. Yeah, it's very seasonally driven.

Speaker 6 So like right now, like December through February is like just non-existent. I kind of anticipate that every year now.
But yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I have found as a ruminator and as an overthinker that I have a habit of rethinking the same problems over and over.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 2 And so that should be a signal to you that

Speaker 2 you've already worried about it. And worrying about the same thing over and over doesn't get you anywhere.
And I do that shit all the time. I just get stuck on this thought.

Speaker 2 And if I don't have a clear answer to it, I'll just

Speaker 2 just over and over.

Speaker 2 You literally have to get to the point, whether it's through a therapist or just like good old-fashioned like thinking or whatever, having a friend, you have to just say, all right, well, listen, if I don't have a solution right now, I'm going to table it to the side.

Speaker 2 And if it pops in my head, I'm just going to like put it out of my mind for now. And that that takes that takes some work, man.
And it's like, it's easier, it's way easier said than done.

Speaker 6 But it is a discovered, I discovered CBT. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, what is it?

Speaker 6 Cognitive behavioral therapy.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 6 It's like

Speaker 6 it's essentially has to do with rumination. Sure.
I mean, that's pretty much the core of it and overthinking. And

Speaker 6 basically what you've been describing is.

Speaker 6 kind of

Speaker 6 separating thinking from thoughts. And, you know, the ones that, like you just said, you just keep over analyzing the same problem because I do the same exact thing that you just described.

Speaker 6 Like, if I don't have a clear answer to it and it's like not like a light bulb going off, then it's just, it, it like doesn't go away.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it would drive you crazy. So listen, I think you're, I mean, you're, you're self-aware.

Speaker 2 You can acknowledge some of these things, you know, but to get her back, you've already, so you've already broken up once. I'm guessing it was around all of the similar problems.

Speaker 2 So she's already gotten back together with you based off of nothing other than hope. So I'm guessing she's less likely to do that this time.

Speaker 6 And that's, yeah, that's exactly the,

Speaker 6 the reason we're not getting back together this time.

Speaker 2 But she hasn't given up on you. So you got that going for you.
So what do you want to do about it?

Speaker 6 I mean, I definitely want to repair the relationship. I mean, she's my person for sure.
I mean, it was, for both of us, it was like a instantaneous like connection. I mean,

Speaker 6 I don't even know how to explain it.

Speaker 6 It sounds so stupid, but it's like without even getting to know the other person, you already know what that other person is thinking without even having to communicate with them it's like a it's a weird connection i don't know i don't know how to explain it other than that you don't have to explain it you know you believe it and that's all that matters what's your i'm guessing your love language is acts of service or one of them one of them what are her love languages emotional availability i think is is the the the number one so probably quality time then quality time yeah yeah

Speaker 2 so You should be mindful of what her love languages are, for one.

Speaker 2 In the future, if someone asks you that that question, especially given your situation, you should be able to rattle that off, right?

Speaker 2 And part of you not knowing that for sure, you know, one, it's just your dude. So you're, and if she hasn't asked you, you know, you probably, but part of it is like,

Speaker 2 take away the whole, like, what sounds like woo-woo and whatever. And that's something that I shouldn't give a shit about.

Speaker 2 Like, all love languages are, is this like a way to articulate how people connect and share love and make each other feel loved or feel seen and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.

Speaker 2 And so you better understanding her love languages is better understanding how to make your partner feel loved because ultimately why she broke up with you is because you didn't make her feel loved.

Speaker 2 You didn't show her love. And when she was trying to show you love, you shut down and she felt very alone.

Speaker 2 So one, just just be more mindful of that and knowing like this, you know, my girl like needs some quality time.

Speaker 2 So quality time means that like you are going to have to figure out ways when she says, hey, you're pulling away from me. Do you, did you guys ever use like words like connect and disconnect?

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So like those words have helped, helped me in like now in our relationship because it helps articulate a feeling that, you know, I think in the past, it's just like, I just don't feel close to you.

Speaker 2 And that's kind of like, what do you mean? I'm here. You know, it's like, I'm literally in the same room with you.

Speaker 2 That person's trying to say, well, like, I just don't, you feel disconnected or whatever. And so you got to find ways to connect with your partner.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And that was, that was something that she mentioned too.

Speaker 6 you know, during the whole breakup and conversation during the breakup was, you know, she said at times she would be in the same room with me and it felt like I was, you know, somewhere else or not there or, you know.

Speaker 2 You guys have to get better at asking for each other's help, you know, vice versa. I think you'd get better at allowing her to help you if you got better at asking her for help.

Speaker 2 And she would feel more valued if you actually asked her for help. And that help could be in any form.
It could literally be helping her business.

Speaker 2 I mean, hell, when was, when was the last time you asked your girlfriend for business advice?

Speaker 6 A couple times, but she didn't really, she doesn't really know how to.

Speaker 2 That's not really the point.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? Like it could be, you know what I'm saying? Like maybe she's not an expert in trees.

Speaker 2 You know, before Natalie was on the show and part of the show, like, you know, as my girlfriend at the time, there were just various situations. A lot of it is just like interpersonal situations.

Speaker 2 Sometimes it'd be helping with me. Like a lot of my employees are younger than me.
My wife's a bit younger than me. So sometimes I'd been like, hey, like I'm having this conversation with this person.

Speaker 2 Is there a better way to approach this conversation? Yada yada. It really doesn't matter what the fuck you're talking about.

Speaker 2 The point is, just find ways to make your partner feel like her input helps you.

Speaker 2 And that could be input on literally anything about your life, you know, but making her feel included and valued goes a long way.

Speaker 2 So you don't have to ask her for like, you know, how to get the best tax break. That's a question for an accountant and trees and shit like that.

Speaker 2 But like, I'm assuming that this woman that you describe as your person, I bet she, you find her to be intelligent and I bet you like aspects of her brain.

Speaker 6 Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 yeah so figure out a way to make her useful in your business and think outside of the box and then more importantly too be mindful when you're ruminating and when you're ruminating and you're disconnecting you're pulling away you got to check yourself and checking yourself doesn't make the feelings go away you know when you're like stuck in a thought and you're just like fucking it's just like driving you and it's giving you fucking anxiety and you're just like oh you know if nothing else being like i'm i'm doing it you know and just whatever it is you say to yourself that makes you recognize that will help you just be like, all right, I needed to put the phone down, whatever it is, let's go get ice cream, talk about something with her.

Speaker 2 And the more you can say to your girlfriend, I need your help or hey, can we, like the more connected she will feel to you.

Speaker 2 So you just got to find different ways for her to help you, help you at work, help you with life, help you take you shopping, you know, or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 Like she wants to have an impact on your life and she wants to feel like she's helping you.

Speaker 2 And when you shut down and you're like, I'm struggling, I'm struggling, I'm struggling, but don't stay away, stay away, stay away. It does the exact opposite of what she's trying to do with you.

Speaker 6 Yeah. That's essentially what happened.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm guessing your fights or internal thoughts when something like this. You're having a bad day, whatever it is, right? It's work-related.
You're stressed out. You're feeling anxious.
You pull away.

Speaker 2 And she's like, well, how can I help? And that your thought is, what do you know about like, and you're not trying to say it.

Speaker 2 Maybe you don't want to sound like a dick, but in your head, you're thinking like, unfortunately, I wish you could help me right now, but you can't. I got to do this on my own.

Speaker 2 I'm, you know, ah, you know, and then you, and then that's, that comes across as a big fuck you to her.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I thought about that actually. There's, there's, you know, it's, you remember all the little things post-breakup that you're like, ah, okay, that, that moment probably meant a lot.

Speaker 6 But there was definitely quite a few moments when, when, when that, you know, she was trying to help, and I had that thought.

Speaker 6 And, you know, in retrospect, you think, yeah, yeah, like, she was probably like, wow, he just pretty much told me to go fuck myself. And I'm just trying to be here.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And maybe helping you is getting you out of your fucking head so that you don't spend another two hours thinking about the same problem, that you're just not right.

Speaker 2 You're not in the right space to come up with a solution. So instead of worrying about it for two hours, getting more anxious and pulling away, let her help you get out of your head.

Speaker 2 But you have to be willing to get out of your head. It starts with you catching yourself and saying, I'm doing it.
I'm doing the thing I do. Right.
And so when your partner says, well, how can I help?

Speaker 2 That's not a permission for you to worry about your problem even more. And then you would be like, well, you don't know how to solve this problem.
Helping you is helping you get out of your head.

Speaker 2 Helping you is helping you not think about the same thing for three more hours of getting nowhere, right? So helping you could just be like, you know, right, babe, thanks for checking me.

Speaker 2 Like, honestly, I don't want to think about it right now. It's a problem that, like, I mean, I can tell you about the problem.

Speaker 2 I don't want to like dismiss your ability to help me, but honestly, you know, it would be really helpful right now. Me getting out of my fucking head.
So what can we do to get out of my head?

Speaker 2 And just tell me it's going to be okay. You know, that honestly would help.
And she would feel valued if you could just, you know, but it's like, it's allowing her to help.

Speaker 2 It's, it's giving her the benefit of the doubt. You've been shutting her down emotionally by just saying, you can't help me.
And that's very defeating for a partner.

Speaker 2 And our partners can help us in a million different ways. You know what I'm saying? Like, maybe it's a back massage.
I don't know. Maybe it's just like peace of mind.

Speaker 2 You know, like there's a million ways. If you allow someone to help you who's willing to help you, they'll find a way to help you.
You just have not allowed her to help you.

Speaker 2 And you've been resistant and stubborn in how she can help you. And you have to like open up her ability to help you in any way.
You'll take any help you can get.

Speaker 2 It doesn't have to be help about your business. Listen, as a business owner, work never stops.
You know what I'm saying? There is no off button, right?

Speaker 2 So any help that you receive in your life is help towards your business, right? So think of it that way. It doesn't have to be direct help.

Speaker 2 It's not like your girlfriend's there to give you encounting a device. It's just like if she can help you feel good in any way,

Speaker 2 that'll help help your business because a healthier you and a clearer you is a is a better owner of the business, right? So think of it on a more holistic level.

Speaker 6 Right. Instead of a business aspect.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because like, you know, if you're not in the right headspace, how can you be a good business owner?

Speaker 6 Yeah, for sure. Well, I guess, I guess moving forward, I don't know.

Speaker 6 I don't know how to.

Speaker 6 So we're, we're, we're definitely in a no contact right now. We broke up.

Speaker 6 A couple of weeks ago, I went out drinking, fucking got obliterated, and just she messaged me randomly and I just blew her up with the, I love yous, I missed you.

Speaker 6 And she was just like, all right, I can't, and then blocked me and haven't spoken since.

Speaker 2 If I were you, I would

Speaker 2 get off this call. I'd think about what we talked about a little bit.

Speaker 2 And then maybe whip open that laptop of yours, open up that notes app and write her a letter. I don't know if you're going to send it or not.
I just, I want you to put out your thoughts.

Speaker 2 I want you to reflect on some of these moments we talked about in ways in which you thought maybe, you know, situations or fights that you had.

Speaker 2 And when you write this letter, I want you to try to empathize with her point of view as much as you can. This is like an exercise in total empathy, right?

Speaker 2 And you're going to put yourself in her shoes and you're going to write her a letter and talk about like, I've been really reflecting on how I've been in this relationship.

Speaker 2 And I want you to talk to her so that when she reads this letter for the first time in a long time, she's going to finally feel like you hurt hurt her.

Speaker 2 But in this letter, it needs to like, you know, you're not like, you haven't figured this out yet, right? It's a journey.

Speaker 2 She needs to understand like you getting drunk and saying, I love you is kind of a fuck you to her. Cause it's like you're hurt.
That's, it hurts her to hear.

Speaker 2 Because what she, what, what I'm hearing without having talked to her is that if she could be with you, she would be with you.

Speaker 2 Cause she can't be with you because when she's with you, you make her feel very alone and very sad. And so you need to show her and articulate that you finally understand where she's coming from.

Speaker 2 And while you're still working on ruminating less and

Speaker 2 things like that, you've been doing a lot of reflecting and realize that, listen, I don't want to lose you. I really think you're my person.
I want to be a better partner to you.

Speaker 2 I need to figure out how to better handle my stresses. I don't want to make empty promises to you and things like that.
And I don't want you to get back together with me simply based off of hope.

Speaker 2 But like, I want to work on this, you know, and I realize that I'll be a better business owner if I could be a better partner and a better, you know, man, so to speak.

Speaker 2 If any of this resonates with you, maybe we can talk in the future. But like, you know, you have to be willing to not shut down.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 So what do you, what's your advice as far as, I mean, obviously, right now is no contact. I can't contact her, but

Speaker 2 sure you can. I mean, if you're willing, if you need to, right? If you need to get it.
Well,

Speaker 6 I think if she blocked me, I think going out of my way to contact her again would be

Speaker 6 salt in the wound.

Speaker 2 Well, again, I think you calling her up and saying, I miss you, I love you, is a fuck you to her, right? Because she loves you and she misses you.

Speaker 2 And so you saying that to her is like, that's not missing you isn't our, isn't my problem, right? It's you aren't a, you're not a good boyfriend to me. It is, you are distant with me.

Speaker 2 You, you don't let me help you. You push me away.
You make me feel less than. You make me feel worthless and blah, blah, blah.
All the things that, you know, you remember all these fights.

Speaker 2 I'm just guessing here just because because I've, I've been you and I've, I've, I have friends who are in your similar situation and it's all very similar, right?

Speaker 2 My guess is if you said any version of the things we talked about, it would be well received. She would wonder how you came to this conclusion.

Speaker 2 She'd want to make sure that you really meant what you said. But have you said anything like that to her ever?

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, when we broke up, I told her that I was, you know, very dismissive and

Speaker 6 combative and distant in our relationship at times. And it wasn't, you know, anything that I

Speaker 6 purposefully did, but I, I said that when we broke up.

Speaker 2 What did she say to that?

Speaker 6 Uh, thank you.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.
I mean, I think the different that the next step is you talking about what would you like to do differently.

Speaker 2 And it goes from just like, yeah, I was a jerk to, hey, I was thinking about that time we fought about blank. And I remember you asked me blank.

Speaker 2 And I know that my answer was like, in the time, I was just like, you can't help me. And I'm realizing that like, that wasn't fair to you, but I was wrong.
You can help me.

Speaker 2 I just haven't allowed you to help me. And I think I have allowed my anxiety and stresses with work stop me from like realizing just how much good you have done for me and things like that.

Speaker 2 She needs to know that it's going to be different.

Speaker 2 Right now, you're just like apologizing for this, you know, because you reckon, you know, it's like, I'm sorry, I was an asshole, but I'm still going to be an asshole.

Speaker 2 You know, that's kind of probably how she hears it.

Speaker 6 For sure. That's how that's, that's her,

Speaker 6 her answers, uh, reflect that statement. So yeah.

Speaker 2 You're kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like, well, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm an asshole, but I'm an asshole because I'm stressed at work and I can't quit my job.

Speaker 2 So I guess I'm just going to keep being an asshole. You have made the problem your job and your problem isn't your job.

Speaker 2 Your problem is how you have managed your emotions and stresses and your inability to control your ruminating thoughts. That's your problem.

Speaker 2 You know, because you know, as a business owner, there will always be stresses, right? You'll always have problems. Things will come up.
You'll have two good days. And, you know,

Speaker 2 there's always a problem around the corner. You know, five years from now, your business really takes off and your stresses aren't exactly money, right?

Speaker 2 Maybe you'll make to the point where you're like, I made it. You know, I have a successful business.
You know, I'm no longer. worrying about like, will this business survive?

Speaker 2 But I promise you, you'll have new problems. You know what I'm saying? Like as a business owner, you will always have stresses and problems.

Speaker 2 And sometimes those stresses and problems will feel existential. They'll feel like, you know, maybe you have enough money, you have a nice house, you have your dream house, but like, who knows?

Speaker 2 It might be like a crazy employee who's like, I don't know, I'm putting your business at risk. I don't know.
Like as a business owner, there's always a problem waiting to happen.

Speaker 2 So it's like, I've realized that, you know, my problem isn't my business. There'll always be problems to solve as a business owner.

Speaker 2 I've realized that my problem is how I've handled these stresses in business.

Speaker 2 And I mean, because that's the thing, whether you get back together with this girl or not, your next girlfriend is going to have the same issue with how you're handling your emotions and stresses in your business.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I can can tell you, you know, as someone who's owned my business for the better part of five years now, and there's a lot, you know, I, I'm grateful and I've grown exponentially and yada, yada, but I am no less stressed today than I was when I, in fact, I'm more stressed today than I, when I started my business because the more you have, the more you worry about.

Speaker 2 The more you have, the more you worry about losing it. It's just different stresses and they come in different ways.

Speaker 2 So, and it's all very exciting because being a business owner has a lot of perks and you have a lot of uh it's a lot of rewarding things come from it.

Speaker 2 But it comes down to, again, to be a business owner and to be a partner, you're going to have to learn how to do both at the same time. And I think that's the message you want to articulate with her.

Speaker 2 So again, I do recommend you like getting out the notes app, journal your thoughts.

Speaker 2 Again, this is more about you journaling and being able to like think about what you're saying, really believe what you're saying, articulate what you're saying, maybe work it, rework it, read it back.

Speaker 2 If it gets to the point where you feel like, this is something I really want her to know, because I really actually thought about this and I really, I really want to put this into action, then maybe think about considering it.

Speaker 2 And at that that point, you could figure out a way, I am sure, to get a hold of her and reach out, whether it's through a friend or, you know, to say, hey, there's something I want to share with you.

Speaker 2 I've been giving things a lot of thought. You'll find a way, right? And that's different than getting drunk and rage texting her.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's why she blocked you, right? So this is not, she would love to hear from you, you know, she, but it's just a matter of how she hears from you.

Speaker 2 What she doesn't want you to, is to mind fuck her and make her feel even worse and guilty about about moving on from a relationship she doesn't even want to move on from.

Speaker 2 But you're, you have made it so difficult to stay in this relationship. Hopefully it'll helpful though.
But I, I, I, no, for sure. Uh, and I know I'm right.

Speaker 2 I've, I've had way too many experiences with this shit.

Speaker 6 Yeah. I mean, without knowing any of the circumstances, I mean, you've, you've, you've hit everything on the head with, you know, with the limited knowledge that you do have.
So, I mean, kudos to you.

Speaker 6 You know, a thing or two.

Speaker 2 I have plenty of lived experiences, experiences, whether it's my own or

Speaker 2 through friends. So, yeah, man, listen, like the good news is, is that this is all very fixable.

Speaker 2 And I think you realizing that this is a problem that you need to fix as someone who wants to have a life partner and wants to have a successful career, you need to fix this.

Speaker 2 And that's the good news is like you can prioritize it appropriately because like it needs to happen. And now you can, now you can focus your energy because you'll find the tools.

Speaker 2 Like you literally told me about something I didn't even know existed. You know know what I'm saying? Cause you've done some research.
You have more to do. You are capable of finding the tools.

Speaker 2 I don't think is your problem. Your problem is just POV.
It's just how you've looked at the situation.

Speaker 2 Now, hopefully this conversation will allow you to take like a step back and see this like from a 30,000 foot view and take some of the.

Speaker 2 immediate pressures off and say, all right, well, this is my overall problem. Now, how do I fix it?

Speaker 2 And you'll figure, you know, therapy, doing your own research, honestly, journaling, just acknowledging it is a step in the the right direction. You're clearly a smart guy.

Speaker 2 You, you know, as if you're a business owner, you know how to problem solve. So that's not your problem.
You know, it's focus on empathizing her point of view.

Speaker 2 I mean, the best thing I've ever done in my life, the thing that's really helped me in every relationship I've ever had, whether it's my wife, whether it's my employees, whether it's strangers, people I'm talking to you, is just getting really good at saying, all right, if I were in their shoes, how would I react in this situation?

Speaker 2 And it's literally just taking your ego out of it. It's not being right, it's just literally like imagining you be in their shoes and then hearing back shit you've said to them and things like that.

Speaker 2 And be like, well, that'd probably piss me off too. I guess if I were them, I would feel a certain way.

Speaker 2 The better you get at that, the better you are at like just, you know, seeing their point of view.

Speaker 2 Every situation we are in, it's just like there are just, there's a million ways to solve a problem, and some of them are more effective than others.

Speaker 2 And the more you can empathize with the other person's point of view, the better chances you have at solving their problem where you both mutually agree on.

Speaker 2 But right now, it's been, you don't know how to solve my problem. I'm alone.
I need to do this on my own. You can't understand what it's like for me to be a business owner.

Speaker 2 And as a result of you approaching it that way, you have made your partner your adversary as opposed to someone who can help you.

Speaker 6 100%.

Speaker 2 All right. So there you go.
Helpful?

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 2 Hopefully, yeah. I mean, I really, I would, I would write things down and see where they start there.

Speaker 6 Or hopefully I can call back in a few months with an update

Speaker 6 in a positive note.

Speaker 2 We would love an update. And listen, man, there's always the possibility that she won't take it back.
That is possible. And you have to consider that.

Speaker 2 Right in this moment, I think you should strongly consider that.

Speaker 6 I have. And

Speaker 6 I think that's the biggest thing that I'm struggling with is coming to terms with that being a possibility.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, listen,

Speaker 2 if that is the case,

Speaker 2 you're going to be fine. And I'm not trying to take anything away from your connection, but I have just learned that there are more than no one, there's not just one person out there for you.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just, it is what it is. You feel a certain way right now because of what you're going through.

Speaker 2 And you, and you both probably have a, you have a chance with this person to have a great connection and a great life. But all I'm saying is shit happens.

Speaker 2 People make choices and you can only control what you can control. And if she chooses for whatever reason not to take you back, nothing should change for you in terms of this problem.

Speaker 2 She cannot be the reason you change. You have to change for you because again,

Speaker 2 this problem isn't going to start and stop with her. And if she doesn't take you back, you fixing this problem isn't finding a partner who's more willing to put up with you.

Speaker 2 It's your willingness to change your approach on being a partner because no one is down for being in a relationship where they feel alone and feel ignored.

Speaker 6 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 That's one of the first goals I set and made sure I said to myself, you know, that I need to do it for me and not for anybody else. So.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And you're going to want you, right?

Speaker 2 Because like you, like you said, I mean, if imagine being in business with you and having a partner that treated, you know, imagine your girlfriend was your business partner.

Speaker 2 Imagine if she was in business with you and how she would feel having to make big decisions about the business, your business being the relationship, how she would feel having a partner in business who didn't really work with her on.

Speaker 2 on running the business. She just wants to create a business with you, man.
I wouldn't say it like that in your letter.

Speaker 2 You should be more romantic.

Speaker 6 You would make a great business partner.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I would use words like team. I haven't been a good teammate to you.
You know, she wants to feel together.

Speaker 2 We, us, I failed you as a teammate. I feel you as a partner.
I have pushed away the help. I see that now.
And I've made bad situations worse. And that's something I really want to work on myself.

Speaker 2 I need to work on this. And that's part of your letter should be, I'm going through this and I'm working on this.
I am sorry for how I handled things in the future.

Speaker 2 I hope I can get to a place where I am worthy of like you reconsidering this.

Speaker 2 But before I ask you to reconsider ending this relationship, I want to show you that I'm capable of implementing these changes into my life.

Speaker 2 That will go a long way.

Speaker 6 We'll see how it goes.

Speaker 2 All right, buddy. All right.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.
I really appreciate the call.

Speaker 6 All right. Thanks, Dave.
All right. Take care.
Bye-bye.