E979 - Perfect Match w/ Clayton Echard, Hannah Godwin, The Valley, Bach in Paradise & Special Forces Cast

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You're crazy.

What's going on, everybody?

Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition.

I am your host, Nick, joined by my wife, lover,

and just really my favorite person.

Do you have a voice for Connor?

Do I have a voice for Connor?

Like that I talk to you.

Let's say you're bickering with each other

and then Connor says something that maybe you disagree with and then you repeat back to him.

You mock his mocking.

You're like, you're mocking.

Like when do you when you mock Connor and be like, well, if you.

What does he sound like in your head?

Yeah, like what does he sound like in your head?

Oh, no, but we don't mock each other.

If he mocked me during a fight, the house would burn down.

I don't mean like a fight.

Yeah, just like serious.

Oh, remember when you said and you repeat what he said, and it sounds like you have like your own.

Yeah, it's probably offensive.

Yeah.

I'm like, I'm like, okay, you said that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Natalie does schmeagel.

No, I don't.

She's like, well, when you said, if I wish it, if you wish it to

be, and I'm like, I did not sound like that.

I like, honestly, you sound like this.

This is how you sound.

This is how you sound.

No, that's when you're doing an impression of me.

But when we're bickering and I was like, for example,

we were, because the lake house, lake house is getting close to being done, and you know, we're making some selects, and we were debating over something stupid.

And Nick was wrong, okay.

But you said we were getting limestoned,

and I'm like, oh my God, like, I do not sound like that at all.

Like, I'm not even rating.

You can't even get into the argument because it's like, what did you do?

No, then now the argument is, does he sound like that?

Only when you're angry.

Only when you're angry.

Well, Nick's took a butt.

Nick.

Nick bit me last night.

So what do you mean?

We weren't having sex.

Wait, what do you mean?

An intentional bite?

Oh my God.

No, it was intentional.

It was, I was self-defense.

Self-defense?

Was she jumping you?

She was tickling me with her freezing cold hands.

Oh, no.

Might be warranted.

He would not let go.

He was like a rot rat.

It was like, pee my pants or bite my wife.

And he turned all your voices.

It was a soft,

soft, tickling with cold hands.

I think tickling in general.

Nick's job when we get in the bed is to warm my hands and my feet, my extremities.

That's his job.

Warm them up, right?

Like, he turns off the lights.

He gets the water.

He gets the

dogs out.

He takes the dogs out.

He finds a remote.

And he also warms up the hands and the feet.

Okay.

That's his job.

Feet on thighs.

Fine.

Diet.

Hands on stomach and then tickling.

I only tickled because he was pushing me off

I love that.

This is like, I'm like the judge here.

I'm going to say he's nicer than I am.

When Connor even barely touches me, I'm just like, will you go live a little?

Go warm up before you touch me.

Go run a mile.

Literally.

Come back.

And you, I'm like, hello, gifts.

Hand warmers, feet warmers, heated socks, a heated blanket.

Unless you enjoy having cold extremities under your body.

You want me to buy my wife mittens for bed?

Maybe.

I'm trying to help you.

Like, all right, here's your mittens.

Warm up.

Put your uniform on for bed.

We're just saying, this will save you some drama.

You won't have to bite anymore.

And it was a nibble.

It doesn't sound like it wasn't a nibble.

It was like he was like, ah,

it was like he was like, he wrought wildly hooked onto a rally dog, literally like a pig's ear or something.

It was crazy.

I need to check for rabies.

Do you feel okay today?

Yeah, I think I'm okay.

I don't.

Oh.

Secondhand tickling.

You know, you feel,

you know, it's just, you never really know when it's coming.

Was just pushing her off of you not an option?

Not really.

Like a nice strong arm, perhaps?

Well, when you're kind of vulnerable lying in bed, and I just, I'm in a weird spot, and then she gets you,

and then you're kind of bear-hugged, and you're tickled.

And you, again, like, you don't, you can't flail your arms because then you could accidentally elbow someone.

I had to be aware of your surroundings.

That's fair.

I guess

whatever.

I feel like it was instinctual.

I don't know what happened.

I was trying to save myself.

Nuts.

That's a reaction.

Anyway, we have a great episode lined up for you today.

Shortly, Clayton Eckhart from Perfect Match will be joining us.

He's also known as a former bachelor who's been through it and he put Rachel through it this season of Perfect Match.

We had Rachel on the other day who shared her truth about the second hand or second round of this love affair that lasted.

Third.

Well,

third breakup.

Third, third breakup on reality TV.

And Clayton has his side.

And

you can just decide for yourself.

We also have Hannah Godwin from Bachelor Land.

Bachelor Matrination.

Bachelor Land.

Bachelor Land acting like.

You don't know.

She's with us.

Either way, she's watching The Valley and she's watching Perfect Match.

And we're going to catch up with her, see what she's up to.

Briend of show.

I don't think Hannah's ever been on.

Really?

No.

She was never on during her season?

You never had her on?

No.

They just released the cast of Special Forces Season 4.

I think it's season 4.

Yeah.

And it's an all-star lineup.

It's really

wild.

First, it's a wild lineup.

For all of you reality TV fans, it's certainly stocked.

We got Teresa Judice, her daughter, Gia Judice.

The mom and daughter pair will join the Special Forces.

Randall Cobb of the Packers.

Damn.

All right, Randall Cobb.

We have Brittany Cartwright, Brittany Cartwright.

Jesse and Eric Decker.

Johnny Menzel.

This is an amazing lineup.

Jesse Smollett.

Guys, are you familiar with Jesse Smollett?

Jesse Smollett, who.

Faked a hate crime.

Faked a hate crime, went to jail,

wasted millions of dollars of the Chicago Police Department's money.

And then kind of...

Now he's on Fox.

Now he's on Fox.

Brianna Lepaglia.

Yeah, Brand Chicken Fry.

Wait, wait, Cody, the guy who has 17 wives from

Sister Wise or what's that?

Damn, what a lineup.

Is that Mark from

the

Montana Boys?

Wait.

Yep.

Mark Eston.

TikTok stars are getting on.

Well, Brianna Chicken Fry is on there.

Well, Brianna has like her career outside of TikTok.

Mark from the Montana Boys, who like dated Kristen Cavillari is just like.

And then Eva, who's Eva?

Eva's America's next top model.

Okay.

Who's Nick?

Nick is NBA player.

Who's Christie?

Olympic soccer player.

Who's Chanel?

Super model.

Period.

Who's Andrew?

Andrew's an NFL player.

Oh, is that Sean Johnston?

Oh, yeah.

Was it Eva on this is Eva from Reality Lives of Atlanta?

Thank you.

And Ultimate Girls Trip, right?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

This is a great

cast.

When does this start?

September 25th on Fox.

September 25th.

September 5th on Fox.

And we will be covering.

I knew that Brianna Chicken Fry was going when everyone thought that she was on Love Island.

That was crazy.

Yeah, that was kind of nice.

Justin, you believed it.

I did.

She was insane.

Brianna did reach out to me and just asked me if she should do it.

And I didn't get confirmation that she was doing it, only that I was like, you definitely should do it.

And I think you will do well.

And I gave her just a couple tidbits and then never heard back.

And then

while I knew Special Force was filming and then she was off the grid.

So I kind of assumed while everyone else thought she was on Love Island.

Well, for the people who've been living under a rock, what is Special Forces?

What are they doing?

You obviously were on.

Obviously, I was on season two with my friends, Tyler Cameron and Judge Russell.

It's, I don't know, it's, it's several days of literal special forces training.

It's not a reality TV show.

It is a real-life simulation.

They are not engaging with producers.

They are, they are not, like, making

no craft services.

There's no downtime.

No one's like making you avocado toast while you like do your makeup or anything like that.

You're in a real life special forces training simulation where you are,

you know, every season might be different, but like you're, you're on, you're going for 18 hours a day.

You're going a nonstop.

You are treated like a special forces, they are emotionally, physically torturing you.

And you're doing like challenges that

special forces training has gone through.

Yeah.

And then at the very end, it ends with them literally torturing you overnight.

In case someone were to have like gotten captured and like they capture you and then torture you and you have to survive it and it's all about quitting it's like it's or not quitting yeah there's no like voting off or anything like that you have to and there's no incentive they all uh they all get paid whatever they got paid they can leave all day one and still get the same amount of money so it's only for pride oh yeah i'm out hour one you sleep at a cot there's like one toy like you're you know going to the bathroom outside in a bucket bucket no thank you and they slowly starve you over time i'm surprised my people don't go crazy.

That was a cold climate that I filmed in.

I believe this is a hotter one.

Oh, that's nice.

It's a warmer climate, but it's desert warfare, I believe.

I thought they were doing jungle.

Isn't jungle should be on like the list?

They haven't done jungle yet, at least with the American version.

That would be cool.

But I don't believe this is a jungle situation.

I think this is more like hot desert warfare.

Brutal.

Yeah.

I honestly, who do you feel like is going to make it till the end?

I feel like Jesse James Decker

has a lot of power in her, and I think her and Eric are going to be able to do that.

I think Eric could do.

It really comes down to like, I mean, obviously Eric's a former NFL player.

A lot of NFL players, like, well, first of all, no NFL players have made it, have passed a course because it's an emotional test more than a physical test.

Because at some point, you're just like, they literally are

torturing you for eight to 10 days straight.

So it's like you are made to feel like you're worst self.

And you just have, at some point, you're just like, why?

Like, I don't need this kind of thing.

Or in my case, I just kept going.

Yeah, for everyone who's listening, Nick won season two.

Nick won.

With Tyler.

With Tyler Cameron.

And Aaron Jackson, former Olympic speed skater.

She was an absolute boss.

Tom Sandibal likes to say he won, but he didn't.

Tom went far, did very well,

but did fail the

interrogation portion of it.

Hannah Brown won season one.

Hannah Brown won season one.

Well, that's the thing.

Ironically enough,

in the first two seasons, of the five people who did pass the course between the first two seasons, three of them were from Bachelor Nation.

Who won last season?

Last season, you had Brody Jenner and Travis Kelsey's ex.

Yes, Kayla.

Kayla.

No Bachelor Nation contestants here, despite their very successful track record.

Did they have

couples or like siblings or like any like, cause I feel like there's a lot of pairs of people that are together?

And this is the first time you're having couples.

So Jesse and Eric being husband and wife, and you have Teresa and Gia being mother and daughter.

That's the first time I believe they've had that any type of connection.

Which honestly, I feel like is pretty cool.

I mean, like, they'll have each other to lean on.

They'll have each other to be like, no, baby, like, push through.

You can do this.

Like, I think.

It'll be interesting.

Well, it'll be interesting when one's really good.

Or if it's like, babe, get the fuck home to our kids.

You know, like, that's what I'm wondering about.

Does one quit while the other stays?

Yes.

That's what I want to see.

Or we'll both leave because she's like, well, it's my daughter.

And like, baby,

what if Eric's like, fuck this shit?

And Jesse's like, no, I want to.

Like, can Eric really go?

No.

Can you really go?

That's true.

You know, is that like leaving your wife on the bathroom floor while she's cooking and going to bed?

Are you the asshole?

Who knows?

I guess we'll have to find out and see.

Well, Special Forces had Denise Richards on last season, and I know there's, I mean, there's a lot of just, it seems like it's getting messier and messier her divorce with Aaron.

There's not a ton out there, and we certainly don't want to speculate, but it is, I'm just sad to see it get messy.

She seems to be filming Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which personally I'm just like, I don't know.

Like, I'm just really sad for for Denise.

She always talked and said nice things about Aaron, and anytime she'd talk to us about him, publicly, privately.

And now, obviously, there's like, you know, it's getting real surfacing from housewives where, you know,

people are questioning some of his behavior.

And it's getting messy.

Our hearts are going out to Denise.

This special forces guys.

I'm locked in.

All right.

Well, it's time to get into Clayton Eckhart.

We have a ton of questions for him.

He's got his answers.

Up next, Clayton Eckhart.

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Clayton Eckhart.

Welcome back to the Vile Files.

Good to be with you.

I feel like you have a lot to get off your chest.

How are you doing?

I'm actually doing really well.

Yes, I do have a lot of thoughts.

So I'm happy to dive through or into

what was going through my head as we all watched the show.

Your intuition.

Yes.

My intuition, which, yes, I was leaning on.

And yes, that intuition was rooted in reasoning, which I'll give a little bit of insight to.

But yeah.

But let's just start with one.

I mean, what made you come back?

for another tour of reality TV.

Obviously, we have followed your journey with

great interest over the years.

We've laughed, we've cried with you.

You've been through a lot, and you seem to be like on the other side of things.

Obviously, you had a, as I've pointed out, a tough run at times on reality TV.

Certainly, and we'll get into it.

You've certainly made some choices that the audience and people have questioned, but at the, you know, we also know how reality TV works.

But either way, you know, whatever you've been through, you were like, you know what?

Fuck it.

Let's

give it another spin.

I'm curious, just like, what were your expectations going in?

And just like, what was your reasoning for

just kind of giving this crazy world another shot?

Yeah, the biggest reason for me to put myself back out there was to be able to put the 100% real version of me on camera.

I feel like when I was the bachelor, if I'm comparing myself from then to now,

I felt that I was maybe 80%.

myself on the bachelor.

And it's because I lacked self-love and self-confidence.

So in the last three years, I've done a lot of work on myself.

I've gone to multiple different

therapies.

I've done a lot of healing modalities and I've acquired a self-love and self-confidence that I don't think I ever had in my life.

So

I am proud of what I've become.

And I thought, hey, like, let's give it a go.

Let's see maybe if this time around I jump back on TV and it's a better outcome.

If nothing else, at least people are going to see the version of me that I'm proud of.

Okay.

I love that.

So given that, like, how did it go for you from your perspective?

Obviously, we got to see you come on the beach.

You first matched with Juliet.

That seemed like a budding relationship.

It seemed like there was some chemistry there, some mutual interest.

And then obviously Rachel shows up to maybe a lot of people surprised.

Maybe, you know, maybe everyone's just like, oh, those Netflix casting people.

They got us again.

But yeah, how did you feel the experience went overall?

And obviously, I don't know if you listened to our episode with Rachel, who was here the other day.

She certainly had her thoughts.

And so I just would love to get your side of things.

Yeah, I did listen to what she said, and

I feel it's fair.

I feel really any of the ridicule that I see online right now is fair.

My experience was great.

I actually really enjoyed it.

I journaled throughout the process.

And when I left the show, I was super grateful

to have been through it all.

Unfortunately,

I'm not too happy with the edit, but I'm not going to sit here and dodge responsibility.

I just thought it went differently and thought it could have been portrayed differently.

Ultimately, though, you know, we understand that they only have so much time to

use when they air these episodes.

And so there's always missing context.

Understood.

I'd love to get, I would love to hear from your perspective how you wish it was portrayed or or what we didn't get to see but before we get to that i think just like the obvious questions and like criticisms that like we had when we had rachel here was kind of like what the uh why did you like what made you even want to pursue a relationship with rachel and just you know given the history that you guys had i listen i'm all for people changing their minds i'm all for people like having you know like you know i understand these moments can be intense but like talking about a guy like yourself who who has like done the work, as you said, and gotten therapy, your choices, I guess the best way to put it maybe seem to lack a sense of like empathy for or just or just an awareness of like the potential hurt that you could cause Rachel if you were to like swerve or have your intuition take over.

And at that risk,

why even bother

matching with her night one?

Because it seemed like if nothing else, and again, maybe you have some notes of how the edit was but it seemed like you pursued that match and that you you very much certainly it was if nothing mutual but like you you didn't seem like you were being dragged to match with rachel it seemed very much something that you wanted to do something that you wanted to pursue like you said things like we both are different versions of ourselves and i think we owe it to each other and things like that and that seemed like you trying to convince rachel to match only for again the next day and i think a lot of people who are familiar with your your two stories were just kind of like why how what are you thinking, Clayton?

So what were you thinking?

Yeah, so, of course, it was a major surprise when she showed up.

And maybe I'm naive, but I really genuinely did not expect her to walk through the door.

I didn't think anybody else would be coming from Bachelor Nation.

I really thought like they had told me, hey, this is a new concept we're doing.

We're pulling people outside of Netflix.

And so I thought, yeah, I mean, I'm sure I'll bump into people from other shows, but nobody from my past, let alone one of my exes.

So when she walked in, it was a rush of emotion.

You know, it's, it's all the feelings that you once had, they, they come back up.

And I think most of all of us can relate to this.

I mean, how many times have we went back to an ex?

How many times have we bumped into somebody a couple years later and felt the feelings rush back in?

Maybe we bump into them at a bar and we decide to sit down and have a couple of drinks.

you know, all of a sudden you start to be like, oh, maybe time has passed.

Things have changed.

Like I've changed.

I know how much I have.

Maybe she's changed a lot.

maybe now this is the right timing for us so that's what all went through my head and of course i mean i did think ahead i thought you know what if this doesn't work out um you know what could you know be the impact left um but i i felt personally which it was shown i did say hey i can't promise anything um you know that to me was a safeguard i was putting out there to say hey just so you're aware i can't promise anything that this is going to work but i feel like we're here for a purpose which yes my screen safer saver really did say everything happens for reason.

And I truly do believe that.

So people can laugh at that, but I truly believe it.

So

I was like, hey, we're both here.

This feels impactful.

And I didn't have a strong match with Juliet anyways.

So it was like, look, I feel the feelings right now.

I'm excited to see you.

And we had to make a decision that night.

And, you know, I only had maybe an hour.

to two hours once she walked in the house.

So I made a quick decision, you know, but my, what I thought, and I didn't kiss her that night at all.

I didn't kiss her when we got into the room.

I didn't do anything with her other than talk.

And then we cuddled and fell asleep.

But I was purposely like, look, don't kiss her because I want to be very cautious with proceeding.

I don't want to hurt her.

But what I will say I was surprised by was the intensity of her emotional response when I did then the next day.

Say, hey, look, I don't think this is going to work.

And how I got to that point was through the conversations we had,

my intuition, the things that I'm looking for in life, prior experiences, the conversations her and I had, there were things that were said that I said, yeah, this isn't going to work.

Like, I know what it is I'm looking for and

things have changed.

We've changed.

It's not going to work.

So I woke up.

I said, okay, I have this feeling in my stomach that this wasn't right.

I still waited for most of the day.

just to make sure that that feeling stuck.

And it did.

So that night I told her.

and i think again if she would have just been like okay yeah i understand i i i thank you for telling me early and that was it it wouldn't have been a problem i don't think anybody would have had an issue um

but i think it's because

do you think she had the intensity do you think her so why do you think her intensity was you claim intensity but like

Why, I mean, I guess if someone were to say, why isn't she entitled to her response or to feel blindsided?

Like regardless of you like not kissing her or things like that.

As you acknowledge, like you guys went through a lot together, there's like some traumatic experiences.

And it's, you know, it's one thing to say at the end, I can't promise you anything, but like, you must know that, like, in these kind of moments, that's not what people are hearing.

They're hearing the things that all everything leading up to that that you said, where it's just like, we owe it to each other.

And I think we should match.

And there's a, I'm feeling something very strong here.

Can't promise you anything, but like, you know, it's just like, she's not hearing that, you know?

She's, she's.

she's, yeah, I mean, yeah.

And then there's like also the potential public embarrassment, obviously, that she must, you know, feel like to trust.

There's a level of trust you asked of her that night, right?

To match.

It's like, hey, I can't promise anything, but like, at least let's, let's trust to explore that, you know, and like, you know, she, she must be allowed to feel a certain way, including maybe even embarrassment, if for no other reason, like, hey, I'm

like, whether he meant to or not, this guy played me or I fell for it, or whatever she felt.

Like, I guess, why are you suggesting that that was a bit of an out-of-pocket response by her?

Yeah, I don't want to stay out of pocket.

She's entitled to whatever response she wants to provide.

What I will say is

I had felt that it had been three years.

So while emotions were coming back, I still felt, hey, it's been three years.

And the way that I thought she would respond was not, I thought it would be different than how it was on The Bachelor, because that was intense, but we had a lot of interactions leading up to that point.

And this is, maybe this is just wrong of me to believe, but I felt like time had passed.

We've only been here for less than 24 hours.

This isn't the Bachelor.

So I didn't expect the same response.

It felt like the intensity was the exact same.

And that was just a surprise to me.

That's where I waited.

I was like, look, I have to tell her as soon as possible, but I was not expecting that reaction.

But regardless of the reaction that she gave, she's entitled to give whatever response she wants.

The only thing that I could do is just be honest with her.

And I, in 24 hours, it's like, that is plenty of time to get a good intuition, you know, a good, to understand like, this is not going to work

based off of the conversations that were had and just the feelings and emotions that once they subsided.

Again, I think people can relate to this.

You go out.

you bump into an ex, you go out, you have drinks that night, everything feels awesome.

You're like, this is great.

Then you go to sleep.

You wake up the next morning.

The emotions have subsided.

Rationale sets in and you go, oh, yeah, that was fun last night, but it can't work.

I feel like I didn't do anything different than that.

I really don't.

I guess my question is, why, you know, the night that y'all matched, she expressed like, hey, I don't want you to hurt me again.

I don't want to get hurt.

And you reassured her that that's not what you wanted to do, that you didn't have plans to hurt her.

So I guess why give her that reassurance if you weren't sure what was going to happen?

Yeah, well, I felt I did say, you know, hey, I don't want to hurt you, which was true,

you know, but I can't promise that this is going to work.

So to me, again, maybe I should have said it in a different way.

But I really felt like I was saying, look, I can't promise anything.

So this could, you could be hurt.

I don't want to hurt you, but I don't know what it's going to look like tomorrow.

So I felt that I explained it.

But again, like, I'm not going to say she perceived it a certain way.

And as you said, Nick, she heard what she, you know, chose to hear and maybe didn't put as as much weight on what she didn't want to hear or i don't know but all i can say is like i thought i explained it and and i i guess i didn't explain it well enough for her did you give further emphasis on that maybe throughout the night when cameras were down and y'all were just spending time talking did you put further emphasis on like hey i again i like don't know what's going to happen with this or did it did y'all just not even talk about your connection really at all That conversation that everyone saw, yeah, I did say like, hey, look, you have to do ultimately what's best for you, which I believe they showed as well.

I said, look, I respect whatever it is, you know, decision you make.

I just feel like right now, you know, it's by no accident that we're here.

We did talk, yes, later that night.

And I, again, felt she expressed her concerns.

And I said, I totally understand where you're at.

This is scary.

There's a lot going on right now.

I'm feeling a lot of emotions and you are too.

But I think it's worth giving a chance.

So I, again,

I can't remember fully like that second conversation if I was just like, hey, I can't can't promise you anything.

I can't sit here and tell you that I did.

I say that I'm not certain.

I just was like, hey, you have to do what's best for you.

I kept reiterating that and said, I just feel like, again, I'm in this moment where everything feels not accidental.

And so I'm just questioning why you're here and so am I, why we both accepted to come.

Why feel the need to match with her that night?

Obviously, like if she matched with Freddie, she still would have been in the house.

Y'all still would have been able to communicate and catch up and kind of see where that connection was.

You didn't necessarily have to match that night.

Were you worried that maybe she was going to go home if you didn't?

No, that didn't have anything to do with it.

I didn't even think that she was close to matching with Freddie because I didn't see those conversations until I watched it with everybody else.

So yeah, why not just let it play out?

Why not?

Yeah, were you, so you were afraid she might go home and you would lose that opportunity?

No, I just, I didn't know like, or was paying attention to like what was happening.

She walked in.

I said, hey, like, I had a conversation with her.

And then I went and talked to the guys and was saying how crazy it was.

Meanwhile, she's had that conversation with Freddie where it did seem like they were potentially interested in one another.

And she could have made that decision right there to say, hey, I'll just match with Freddie and

give us a chance.

And if it doesn't work, maybe Clayton and I can work this out

over time.

So she had that decision to make, but...

And I didn't realize that it seemingly was getting that close for her to match with Freddie.

I'd have been fine with that.

I think, again, it was no surprise based on juliette and i like both of us were just like hey look we end up being the default match so like let's just let's give it a shot yeah we end up having a little bit of chemistry once we kissed but it was still like i had in the back of my head i'm like she's going to send me home at some point when she didn't send me home after the date with carrington i was actually shocked i i was i was thrown off in the house i'm like i have no idea why she she kept me because we didn't have strong chemistry.

So I, that was, that threw me off.

But I figured she was going to send me home if I didn't send her home first.

It just, it was like, we're going to be one or the other.

There There was no connection.

You mentioned earlier, obviously, we've, we've teased about, you know, the intuition, but you said moments earlier that

it sounds more like she said something that, you know, I don't know if it was a trigger or it certainly you clocked it.

You implied that something specific happened, which is like not so much intuition as opposed to like, you just got like a vibe that's not going to work out, but something was said that made you think maybe this connection isn't what I thought it was.

Or could you elaborate?

Yeah, Yeah, I'll elaborate a little bit.

Look, like, there's certain things that privately I would say, and I wouldn't say publicly.

And there's things that, you know, again, like, I maybe wouldn't even say to her.

And so, intuition is the safeguard to basically say, this is the truth.

Like, it's a feeling.

I've taken a pulse on the interaction.

I've, I've listened to what you've had to say, the way you say things, you know, your mindset, where you're currently at, your lifestyle.

And ultimately, I said, look, like, my vibe and your vibe is not matched.

Three years later, I wanted to see if like I've changed, you've changed, will our vibes match.

I'll say this, the lifestyles that we have wouldn't match.

And that was part of it.

But there was a couple other things as well.

And I don't feel comfortable saying

that publicly.

Did you tell Rachel privately what those things were?

No.

And I don't think I can.

Why?

Because

I don't think that she would receive them well.

I think she would feel like they were an attack if I were to say it coming from me.

So I feel like it'll be something that she'll understand maybe over time.

Or, you know, or ultimately, you're just, you don't, you don't feel like you're compatible with Rachel, essentially.

That's what it is.

I just, the exact reasons, it's like, look, I don't feel like I can sit here and tell you because I don't think you'll receive it in the way that I would want it to be received.

So therefore, I just, I bet it's just better off to leave it be and be like, look, I had to do what I had to do, but it wasn't going to work.

And that's why I tried to cut it as quick as possible.

Do you at least like

understand that like, I get what you're saying in terms of like, you know, again, you have a right to have feelings change, but I think,

I think for a lot of people, like the disconnect is just more like, I think, again, for someone, like, I think you've clearly done a lot of work and introspection, but it just seemed to lack.

you know, the consideration for like, if my feelings, everything you're saying makes sense, right?

Like you went in with some questions.

You weren't even sure about like Rachel's lifestyle, as you suggested, but just knowing that there were a lot of potential pitfalls to this, like surprise that, like, understand your excitement, you know, understand the analogy you gave about, like, hey, people, like, sometimes you run into your ex, but like, you know, there's a difference between quite honestly, like, being 20 years old and running into your ex and being in your early 30s and running into your ex.

And when you're 20, it's kind of like, holy shit, I'm feeling all these emotions.

I don't know what to do.

Maybe it means something.

Like, I guess let's just YOLO and figure it out.

And when you're in your early 30s, you're kind of like, all right, I'm feeling some crazy shit, but like, I, you know, I'm caught up in the moment.

And that kind of emotional self-awareness, I think, is the difference a lot for a lot of people when it comes to like emotional maturity and actual growth.

And I think at least what we saw, it seemed to lack that empathy or that perspective where like you're, you, you're seeing it through your lens, totally get it.

Like it's your lived experience, but you seem to not put yourself in Rachel's Rachel's shoes.

Again, knowing like, I might, I might spend the night with her.

And if I find out that like, you know, that she wants different things in her lifestyle, that's going to drastically change how I feel.

And I might be breaking up with this person again on camera and make her feel very foolish and make her feel very embarrassed.

So maybe I need to hold back and just like.

If we both get to stay here through other people, like Juliet saves you and Freddie matches with Rachel, maybe we'll get a chance to like talk some more.

Maybe then I'll pursue it a little bit more aggressively, but like you went full court press and it seemed to lack, again, that like consideration for how like this could play out from Rachel's point of view.

Yes.

I think that's all fair.

I think you said that very well.

Look,

has my emotional intelligence improved since The Bachelor?

Yes.

Do I have a ways to go?

Yes.

Okay.

I definitely do.

Fair enough.

I'll say this.

I grew up a people pleaser.

I grew up not feeling good enough.

I used to be really small.

I used to get bullied.

I was called big brother by girls.

So I basically was friend zoned and I was terrible at sports.

And so I went on a mission at a young age to basically prove to people my worth.

And I felt the way that I did that was like by punishing myself, going into the gym, you know, working out seven days a week, two hours at a time, then basically looking in the mirror every morning and be like, you're not good enough.

You got to do more.

You got to look better.

You got to be a better athlete.

Because like, again, my seventh grade self said, all my, you know, at that point, all my value was based in sports and relationships.

And so I went on this lifelong mission going all the way to the NFL, even though I didn't really even love the NFL.

Like, I just went to basically say, like, hey, am I good enough now?

I made it to the highest level.

And then I become the bachelor.

And it's like, okay, maybe girls will now see me as no longer the big brother.

But I subjected myself to like all this pain, you know, hours in the gym, the micro tears of the muscle to build it back up, like telling myself I'm not good enough.

And I say all this because I basically use pain as a driver.

And what I've realized recently and through this experience is that because I was always trying to prove my worth, I was very narrow-sighted at times.

And I was only considering my own thoughts as opposed to being able to step back and look around and say, hey, take a deeper dive into how this is going to impact other people.

Because if pain's my main motivator, unfortunately, pain comes with the side effect of harming other people.

So this experience was definitely eye-opening.

I do agree with you that, yes, like everything you just said, I didn't go to that extent.

And I agree with you that I could have or should have.

And I hope that going forward, I will, you know, it's just in general, like off reality television,

I have improved my emotional maturity, but I'm still not where I want to be.

Understood.

That's fair.

Backing up to when I asked you about, you know, whatever happened that night with you and Rachel, maybe Rachel doesn't give a shit.

Maybe she doesn't want to know.

But don't you think that if Rachel wants to know, like, she deserves to know?

And don't you think maybe it's not like your place to assume what she can't handle?

You're very, you're very, I feel like you're very wise, Nick.

I'll give you credit.

You pulled me on here after I was hesitant to come here in the first place.

Well, you do, you must know, Clayton.

Like, I mean, we've talked offline.

You've been through it.

I've been through it.

I've been through it, but I'm a little bit of wisdom.

I'll give you credit.

People don't give you credit sometimes.

They like that.

You're a wise individual.

Thanks, Clayton.

But I'm rooting for you.

And I think, you know, I do think you are a well-intentioned man.

And I think sometimes you make mistakes.

And sometimes I don't think you think things through.

Or sometimes I think, you know, like all of us who go on reality TV, we're kind of going on through our, you know, we're the main character in our story.

And I think we all kind of forget that.

And everyone who goes on reality TV has a bit of a million character syndrome.

But that being said, I do think you're a good guy who's like just stepped in it.

And I think you're well-intentioned.

But, and so I appreciate you coming on.

But I do want to challenge you because I think you're capable of being challenged.

Yeah.

And I, to answer your question, if she wanted to know, I just feel like it's a really hard conversation to have.

And I almost would feel like, hey, could I talk to somebody close to you and see like if they feel it's, it's like,

if I should bring it up directly?

Like, again, it's, it's, it's, I'm trying really, I know this is making it more like mysterious, but I just, um, I just don't know if like it would come across in a way that wouldn't be perceived as an attack.

I want, I'm like, I don't know if this is meant to come from me or if this is something that she's meant to just find out over time.

I'm really, I know, I'm not, I know it's a really,

it's just deeper rooted.

Um, and it's something that I clocked.

I guess that's what people are nowadays saying.

Um, uh, but I just felt like, look, like

our energies aren't aligned.

And it's just going to basically, I can see, I can see this would cause issues if we were.

Well, maybe she doesn't need to find out over time because maybe it's just your opinion and maybe other people.

Yeah, correct.

And she might say, that's okay thanks but that's i i don't agree with you and okay then totally i'm just saying like if she wanted if she if she listens to this interview and she's like motherfucker like what like what did i say what did i do like what was the problem like can you tell me i'm assuming yes you would tell her yes i would there's yes i mean yes yes probably yes

again i i this is new to me i don't there's certain these conversations that you know some of the stuff is like i've not ever went to this depth you know i've i've learned a lot in the last few years and i'm having these deep intellectual conversations which i never had growing up.

I grew up in a house full of boys.

We didn't talk about emotions.

So I'm still learning.

And I think that's where sometimes my bluntness gets me in trouble because I say something.

Like, I want to highlight something that I heard on the interview yesterday.

Perfect example

that I said, and it was aired.

I said, everyone seemed to see like, you know, something I didn't.

when referencing like my Rachel and I's connection.

That was very poorly said.

I understand why that came across is like, what?

He didn't see it at all.

And then I heard Rachel say like, you know, we had a strong connection.

I don't know what he he means like he asked for my hand in marriage with my dad and i was like and i just i watched that when the show aired and i was like that's not what i meant like that but i understand that that looks that was poorly said what did you mean what i was trying to say was basically i made the decision to be with susie and everybody you know i kept hearing chatter online everyone's like he made the wrong decision like does he not realize how strong his connection was with rachel and i knew it was very strong but i also feel again like what people saw the edit made it seem like rachel and i had a stronger connection when I felt that like my lived experience, I had a stronger connection with Susie.

Then Susie says, well, no, I think you have a stronger connection with Rachel.

And I'm like, no, I think you're looking at the edit.

Like I lived all of this through and my connection was stronger with you.

So when people kept saying it, though, it started to infiltrate my mind.

And I'm like, maybe because I'm going through this process, like I'm willing to say that maybe I was wrong.

Like maybe.

I wasn't seeing the right things because I didn't have the emotional intelligence.

So maybe like I need to listen listen more to what the majority is saying and

give it a second chance.

And I guess this is my second chance.

Like the universe has brought me here to now be able to give it, give it a second go.

And then, and if nothing else, find closure, which, you know, I think we've her and I both found.

But that's what I was trying to get across.

Of course, the way I said it, I was like, yeah, that was her poor word choice.

Okay.

Okay.

Was there anything else that you watched that you wanted to clear up of just like, that's not what I meant?

That's not how that was supposed to come across, or they edited that wrong.

Was there anything particular that you felt you wanted to clear up before we let you go?

So, basically, like after Rachel and I broke up, um, or like I was sorry, before that, but like when I was like, okay, I'm going to do this.

I went on, uh, yeah, I won the kissing challenge and went on a date with Sandy that night.

That whole conversation was very friendly and cordial between the two of us, which I'll just say, it didn't come across that way, but there was nothing other than me saying, like, two friends talking and being like, hey, I need to do this.

And I hope what I said was, I hope that there's four men on the board tomorrow, because the only way that I feel I can make this right is by basically putting her on a date and not and taking myself out of the house.

Then she asked me, well, what happens if there's women on the board?

And I said, well, I don't know.

I suppose then I might, maybe I'll put myself on a date.

So the first part wasn't, wasn't shown.

And I think that matters in my opinion, because on one end, it looks like I was like, yeah, I hope there's girls on the board tomorrow.

I'm going to pick

the girls.

And it's like, that's not the way that it went.

It was like, hey, I hope there's men on the board.

And then Sandy asked me, well, what if it's women?

And that was the part that people saw.

But I think that matters.

I'm like, on one end, it looks like I was hoping for some, you know, for women so I could move on and just be like, screw her.

When the reality was, I was like, hey, I hope it's men.

I've made a mistake.

I need to like make do right by her.

If that conversation was just strictly friends between you and Sandy, why ask her to match with you?

I can only speak on what I experienced.

Okay.

Okay.

Understood.

I think it matters less, honestly, than we talked about.

All the other stuff.

Cameron, you're right.

I think, of course, my emotions had the best of me.

That's why I originally canceled this interview on Saturday.

I was pissed

watching it with everybody else.

And I was pressing pause.

I'm like, there's no way.

Yeah, because to me, like, that's just whatever, whatever you lived and whatever it was shown.

And like, again, like with reality TV, you know, you're spending a whole day, there's 50 characters or whatever, and it's all condensed into one hour of footage following stories, right?

So like sometimes there's an emphasis to like make a point on

a moment.

And I think the point that really like I think all of us are trying to are focusing on and why are a lot of questions is like, again, just

your thought process the night of running into Rachel and all the things that you said to her to get her to match.

And

what comes across the next day is, you know, a kind of sense of

it's not that big deal, or you didn't totally understand the emotional severity or the potential risk that you might be causing someone.

And I think that part with Sandy is this kind of an emphasis on like, what's the big deal?

And it was.

Right.

Yeah.

It's where like, I where I place emphasis versus somebody else.

Absolutely.

And look, this is what I will say.

Watching it, I am not surprised people are mad at me.

I watched it and I was like, yeah,

that doesn't look as great as what I hoped it would have.

So I am not upset with people.

And that's why my comments are open and people are tearing into me.

And I'm like, look, I understand.

I get it.

I'm just trying to, I did what I thought was best.

And

that's all I can do.

And I stand by that.

So I, I, you know, it's just, it is what it is.

I mean, um, I have an opinion and these are my opinions today.

I gave them to you.

You can take them.

You can leave them.

It doesn't make a difference.

I'm just, there was certainly nuance, but reality television isn't really a place where nuance exists.

They only have so much time to show.

One last question before we let you go, Clayton, because I know you got to get out of here.

But you, you thought everything Rachel said was fair on the show.

Why unfollow her after listening to our episode with her?

Because there were some things that her and I basically made up the next day.

I apologized to her.

She apologized.

That wasn't shown.

And we made amends.

We ended up hanging hanging out like a day or two once the production ended, you know, at the resort.

And then we did pickups.

And one of the things that she said, which was aired, the part about Clayton, you know, I'm looking for a man that's kind and takes care of me, the opposite of Clayton, that was said

after her and I made amends.

And I didn't like that.

To be honest with you, I thought we were cool.

Like, and then you go ahead and take a shot at me.

on camera two days later.

That bothered me.

And I just felt like, I just felt like I was like you told me one thing but then when it comes time and the camera's back in your face you you took an unnecessary shot so i just i just didn't like that and i i'm like look your words do hurt me people are gonna side with you when you say that and they're gonna say yeah he sucks so that was all fair enough okay clayton i appreciate you taking the time i know this isn't always easy but i think you definitely mean well man and uh you know i don't know i'll still bit on you over daniel you know um

i appreciate you guys for letting me voice you know, the way that I feel.

And again, like, you don't have to agree with everything, but I do genuinely appreciate the respect that you give me to at least voice it.

Again, you don't have to agree with me at all.

Nobody has to.

I'm still a work in progress.

I'm still trying to be better.

And clearly, I can take this experience and

grow from it as I should and will.

All right.

You selling houses these days?

You want to plug your real estate business?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, the real estate's popping right now.

I'm selling the solar panels.

I got a documentary, a docuseries on the way, a podcast series over the whole paternity scandal, which will give people some background info on all the crazy, craziness behind there.

So there's a lot of things churning right now.

How can people reach out to you if they want to buy some solar panels or a house from you?

Everything's through my Instagram.

So if you go on my Instagram, my bio, my claytonecker.com, and that's where everything's at.

All right.

Clayton, thank you for your time, buddy.

Bye, Clayton.

Thank you, guys.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Thoughts, feelings, concerns?

Sira, you're quiet.

I was told that if you don't have anything nice to say, you don't say nothing at all.

I'm just like, it's hard to watch where I'm just like, there's zero accountability and it was just, it's everyone else's fault.

Well, there's not zero.

Okay, 5%.

There was some accountability.

I do think, you know, he does point out where a lot of his issues or flaws stem from, which I do think makes a lot of sense.

And I do think a lot of that self-reflection comes from therapy.

And so that does give me proof that like he is working on himself because he's able to recognize where certain things come from.

But, you know, he also like him not wanting to tell rachel what she said that made him like one that's crazy like like implying that she can't handle it yeah like you know it all went to shit after the kissing challenge he rated her his second least

best kiss he gave her a six out of ten and then his intuition kicked in and was like i don't like her anymore you think that was it i think that's what it was i i don't know i he said she like said something or it was like very much

he's strongly implying that that night they talked, cuddled, whatever the fuck.

And Rachel lives in L.A.

I'm, you know, we didn't really catch up with Rachel about like career plans or things she's doing with her life, but he seems to be strongly implying that like she's still quote unquote influencing.

She goes to the bar too much.

She goes to the bar too much.

You know, it was very much like our lifestyles are just

way too different.

I'm in Arizona.

I'm like more trying to settle down, selling.

It was giving that.

I mean, I respect him not wanting to say it publicly, but I don't respect him not wanting to tell Rachel if she were to ask.

It's like she has every right to understand like what she said or what she did that made him have this crazy epiphany.

Well, it hits us that he thinks that,

you know, when he said, I wasn't expecting her.

Reaction to be as, what did, what was intensity?

It's like, you told her you weren't going to hurt her.

How could, like, we're watching, when we were watching her, this wasn't going to happen.

It's less than 24 hours.

When we were watching it in real time.

Yeah.

And we're just like, no.

no yeah don't do that

no what are you doing and this is before we thought they like what the hell was gonna happen the next morning and then the next morning we're like no oh my god that's what i said i felt so bad for her but i was also like what are you doing why why are you saying yes to this but like okay i get the whole exes like Sometimes those old feelings kick back up and you're like, great, you're saying everything that I wanted you to say the first go-around.

Why would I not believe you were trying to lean into this?

And then to just like pull the rug from under in like 12 hours, you're like, oh, you know, I really thought about it after I cuddled with you all night.

Um,

and I didn't say a word that I was gonna not be into this.

Um, but here on camera, I don't think this is working.

Like,

yeah,

because you did a really good job asking about like what was happening while cameras were off, because that would have been a great time to explain to us that there are conversations that were happening, that she wasn't fully blindsided.

But what I got is she's fully blindsided.

She's fully blindsided.

Yeah, no, it's it.

I

don't get his thought process at times.

I'm just glad he's willing.

He at least acknowledges it.

And he will acknowledge that, like, hey, I'm a

compared to some of these other guys, like, this, Daniel's a dick.

Daniel is awful.

Awful.

I mean, like, at least that's what we're seeing.

Maybe he's a delight in real life.

Maybe it's the edit.

I don't know what we're seeing.

Maybe Daniel in relationships, or at least in this relationship, I'm just like, the insecurities.

It's just like, yeah, the whole, like, well, you embarrassed me twice.

Okay, well.

No, you can't sit on my lap.

Excuse me.

He's giving her like the, your three strikes, you're out.

Literally, two.

And here comes a curveball, and you're not going to hit it.

So,

so get in the corner.

He's made her cry twice.

Yeah.

And how long have we been here?

10 days.

And then as soon as she's crying, he's like, no, no, no, wait.

Why are you crying?

Don't cry.

Don't

when he said there's nothing to be crying over right now.

And I was just like, you don't

yell.

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

You're yelling at her in front of cameras.

Because that's what I'm saying.

Is that I'm like, it's it.

The Clayton's reaction to Rachel's reaction to everything just bothered me or rubbed me the wrong way because it's just like, you don't get to say what her reaction is supposed to be.

You don't know what feeling she held on for in the three years that you're claiming that you're over it.

And at the same time, how do you use the argument that three years have gone by, so she shouldn't have this reaction, but also three years have gone by, she should couple up with you the second she got into the villa.

I also didn't understand the like he didn't have to match with her.

They could have

separately matched and then just continued to chat throughout their time.

That also wasn't.

But he also gave her no time.

He literally, it's like, she sat down and was like, so we're matching tonight.

She didn't get to talk to anybody.

Yeah.

But it was like, she could have said no.

You know, I think, I really, I think there's a lot of trauma here.

And I don't, I think he has a hard time seeing, which, I mean, I think all these people do, but he is, he's going in thinking about his story.

Yeah.

And he's thinking about his experience.

Which they totally all do.

Yeah.

And he's obviously in the heat of the moment, you know, he's not being told to consider anyone else's feelings.

I'm also like, I understand the edit and things can be cut, but I'm like, you did say these things.

Yeah.

It wasn't frank and chopped to where it was like, oh, and then I added in a word here.

It's like, no, this is the timing in which you said all of these things verbatim.

So like, what are you not happy with?

How it came across.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I think he doesn't.

Yeah, it's just like in his, I think in his mind, he thinks.

I mean, I think losing the context of like that whole Sandy conversation where, you know, I think that definitely like helps that conversation a little bit better, knowing that she had like

what I said to him offline.

I'm like, no one really cares about it.

Yeah, I honestly have not thought about it.

That's the last

empathy.

It was all of our trying.

Yeah, that's really sad.

You're kind of like, the next morning, you're kind of like, I don't understand why you're mad.

We do have Hannah Godwin to break down the rest of Perfect Match.

We do.

The Valley.

Yes.

And she'll be with us next.

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Hannah, welcome to the show.

Thanks, guys.

My first time here.

I know.

I couldn't believe it.

I was like, you never had her on during Colton season.

Well, there is a story, but we, you know.

Oh, my God.

Wait, is there a story?

There's a story.

Oh, wait, there is a story.

There's a story.

No, there's not a story.

There's not a story.

Well, what's the story?

There was one time that's not the story.

Oh, Hannah backed out.

No.

Hannah canceled.

No.

No, no, no.

No, wait, guys.

What is it?

It's fine.

We don't have to get into it.

Were you sick?

It wasn't, it wasn't us.

It wasn't her.

It was like an uh

kind of an outside type of she was influenced i wasn't influenced i was oh oh well let's leave it anyways

so happy to have you

for the first time

with no influences you have no influences how have you been i've been really good i've been um traveling a ton.

You're a busy bee.

I actually just went to Wisconsin.

Yes, because you too also have a lake house.

Dylan has and mean, I guess, does that mean we're here?

No, I can't say that.

It's our house.

Okay.

Yeah.

Unless you want to get into your prenub.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Maybe not here next time.

Just kidding.

Yeah.

So I have a lake house now.

And anyways, but it's in Wisconsin.

And Dylan's family.

It's so much fun.

Dylan's family's lake house.

And it's just my little Midwest summer.

Hain of Montana summer.

Yeah.

It's really, really nice.

And we were just there for like three weeks.

Do y'all, when y'all go, do y'all stay for like long periods of time?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like summer.

Like I was like crying leaving just because it's like, I'm not good at chapters ending.

So like I just have to have a moment rolling my suitcase out, like looking at the wall, like being because I write some of the things.

Do you only go once a year?

We try to go in the winter too and celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving.

Yeah.

But sometimes we've been traveling instead.

So.

But the Midwest is quite magical in the winter, like with the snow and the vibes.

It's, I have to say, oh, ours is being real good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wait, when do do you guys it's supposed to be

done within like a month.

Yeah.

Wow.

Which is crazy.

Neighbors.

Very fast.

Literally neighbors.

You'll have to come over.

It's going to be very oasis-y, very spa, very

demure, very wonderful.

Nick wants it to, yeah, Nick wants it to be very spa-like there.

He's like, I want...

It's a vibe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I will definitely be knocking on your door then and enjoying

the song.

The violence all.

There's a gym.

And we can spill all the tea from last time there.

Yes.

You can

tell me what this influence was.

Well, you're coming up on a year of marriage.

Congratulations.

Two years.

Two years.

Yeah, I was going to say.

Digits.

Yes.

That's a long year.

I was like the wrong guy.

That's crazy.

Two years.

Do y'all feel it?

Do you feel like you still have a little bit of like wedding blues?

Like, do you miss that weekend?

Or are you like, oh no, that was fun.

Like, glad we did it.

No, I'm so happy that it went well.

And that was the stressful part of it.

But now that I look back, I'm like, oh my gosh, it was the best time.

Like happy that that chapter is done.

Did anything happen that looking back, you're like, oh, like definitely wouldn't have had that, would have changed that, but like, it's all fine.

For sure.

For sure.

Dylan.

Yeah.

Dylan was DS and married someone else.

I'm trying to think, like, none of our guests had any photos taken of them.

And I was like, I should have had something like set up for them or like a photographer for them because they all looked so beautiful and so great, like coming down the stairs and stuff like that.

And we didn't, I just

was selfish.

They're like,

no, I just didn't think about it in the middle.

I think that's for our wedding photos.

I definitely brushed through.

Yeah, the friends and family.

I was like, oh,

whatever.

Yeah, next.

Oh, yeah, we look good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I definitely look back at some things and I'm like, oh, I probably would have.

What would you have changed?

Excuse me?

I mean, I got like out of a car.

I had someone like bring me down in a car and I got out of the car like holding river and we had what i envisioned in my head to be like these really big we were on this farm so there really was like no way for me to like have this big reveal so i was like oh can we like put some doors or something that i can just like be behind the doors were definitely like smaller than what i had envisioned and so when i got out of the car no one like fluffed my dress

so when i started to that'll do it down

yeah so finally i get up to where nick is and i like turn around i'm like i need someone to like where's the maid of honor someone because no we had no one up there with us like everyone was in seats.

So I was like, someone's got to fix my dress.

So we like paused the ceremony and like my maid of honors came and like fixed my dress.

And then I was like, wait, sorry, also my veil.

And they're like, okay, we're coming back.

So we had a couple of like intermissions because I was like, we, this has to be, which was memorable.

It was.

Which, by the way, that's a way better scenario than looking back and being like, oh my gosh, my dress and my veil.

Exactly.

I was very glad I did that.

I like, I wouldn't have changed anything.

I was also just thinking, and I wonder what you guys did in this space.

It just sounds so silly but it is what it is with posting it did y'all post stuff that weekend weekend or did you hold no we well like we didn't do any like I didn't have any like tick tock trends or any of like that stuff that I did we posted like we had

we posted the night of so like our welcome

because we wanted our guests to like be able to post and not be like oh wait don't post her she hasn't shown her dress yet you know so like we posted day of and then like kind of just for left our phones, forgot about it.

So, we weren't like in real time posting stories or anything like that.

I, we probably should have had someone like hired to do that, but we honestly got some content up.

We got,

yeah, but that's impressive.

That, that's something that, like, I look at other rides and stuff, and I'm like, should I have just like gone fully like dark on Instagram or whatever?

It's just such an annoying conversation.

It is what it is, but like, I should have just gone dark so that I like enjoyed the moment maybe.

And then after went for it, because I literally went from wedding, like, I was still definitely drunk from the night before, like at the wedding, the next morning going through photos that I have to send over to get approved, or like, like, doing my stories and like stuff like that.

Cause I'm like, well, I already started, like, I've got to kind of keep it going.

But I put that pressure on myself, but I also like doing that.

But it was just, that was a little stressful.

And somebody, since there was a time change, I guess they're, you know, over there, it was like 10 hours difference or whatever than over here.

We were kind of living in this like la low land.

And then the next morning it was like, by, you know, 4 p.m.

over there there is when we have to send everything to get approved or whatever and so we were like fully working but every single person in the wedding they're like yeah if you guys could just hold from posting till tomorrow so everybody can enjoy the moment like whatever but there was one person who leaked our wedding which is just so funny and we joke with him i could get it now yes and like

Jason Oppenheim, where's the camera?

Jason Oppenheim.

If you're listening to this, is this the camera?

Yeah, there's a camera somewhere.

Got that camera i love you so much and

this is a funny joke so he was in

quick story time he was in greece and he was like yeah i might be able to make it to your wedding we're like might like okay whatever it's like whatever we're at the dinner table like i'm in my wedding dress dylan's in his like wedding outfit and he texted dylan dylan just so happens to check his phone and he was like hey can i like like any chance like there's room like we just want to come celebrate with you guys it was like a sweet gesture and dylan was like yeah man sure like whatever but it's like like 45 minutes outside of Paris.

They're on a train from Greece or something like that.

Maybe a plane.

I don't know.

And Jill's like, can Jason come?

I was like, I mean, yeah, sure, whatever.

So he shows up and he's in like.

He wasn't even invited.

And he's not like, no, he was invited.

He just said he couldn't come.

But he didn't RSVP.

He didn't RSVP.

I'm also not super traditional with that kind of stuff.

I'm like, it's a fun party.

We're all the way out here.

Sure, if y'all are around.

Some people would lose their mind.

For sure.

None of us.

Yes.

Yeah.

Love it.

We definitely had overflow.

What did he show up in?

So he showed up.

Was it black tie?

Was it black tie?

So our wedding was black tie and all-neutrals.

Which matters.

And all-neutrals.

It does.

And I, and I, because I, that's all, that was my, that was my only wedding request.

Really?

Nick wanted it.

I wanted black tie.

I wanted, I want, I wanted tuxedo.

Yeah, I like it.

Yeah, and I had a friend show up in a navy suit.

Well, buckle up.

Jason shows up from Mikonos.

We're like, woo, linens.

Fully linen, like ready, ready to party.

And at this point, we had already done dinner.

So dinner was done.

The drinks are flowing, like, people are on the dance floor.

He brings a date.

Nice to meet you.

Yep, I'm getting married today.

What's up?

Like, so nice to meet you.

What's your name?

She does it.

Whatever.

The date does it.

Well, we, no, no, she just met his date for the first time at her wedding.

So we show up, and Jason,

I can't believe I'm making this value real, but it's just funny.

He shows up, and Joan's like, Yo, I have an extra jacket because he had a jacket changed.

Goes into the room, dresses Jason Oppenheim in his wedding suit.

Oh my God.

It fit how you would expect.

It was giving over something.

It worked.

It worked.

He's strong.

He's strong.

But they made it work.

Like it was like...

No one's questioning his shoulder width.

No, it was the pants.

We could pull up photos or something.

There's got to be some.

Actually, my photographer didn't take photos.

Oh my God.

So we might not have.

I don't have photos anywhere.

But you know who did take a photo?

The only person who missed that beginning thing of don't post photos during the wedding is the person with maybe the largest following that ended up joining and it's jason oppenheim it the fireworks show is happening fireworks are going off it's beautiful i'm like in my dress like having my moment it's the parrot trap like that

and jason oppenheim thinks it's beautiful too

as he should

yeah takes a video fully of it oh ding posted a story nobody has any clue because we're all like partying like there's not great service whatever the next morning there's all these articles of hannah and dylan's wedding leaked.

Like Jason Oppenheim linked it.

And I was like talking to Dylan's cousin.

They're like, honestly, if anybody leaked it, at least it's Jason.

And it's just hilarious.

And it's, he got us the sweetest gift from it.

We still make fun of him.

He actually feels bad about it.

A really nice Irma's blanket.

So it was a, it was a really nice gesture and it's beautiful.

It's in our bedroom now.

It's great.

But it's just kind of a funny story now.

But it would be Jason.

And that's the only person who posted from our wedding.

Didn't Sophie Gerard kind of do that at Wells and Sarah's?

Andy was wearing Dylan's suit.

Literally, Andy was wearing

a wedding suit.

It's always the most famous one to do it.

Yep.

He did miss the memo.

He missed the memo.

Anyways, rules don't apply.

Well, you are also watching The Perfect Match

in the Valley.

Yes.

What do you think?

Well, I mean, obviously, Clayton

and Rachel have been, you know, front and center of the storyline.

We just had the opportunity to talk with Clayton.

I'm just curious, like, what have you been enjoying enjoying perfect match were you as it were was draw on the floor yeah were you were you gagging uh screaming crying for rachel when when clayton had his intuition pop up again yes um i so i'm a new perfect match watcher i saw that rachel and i'm friends with rachel was on it and i was like i've got to see what's going on and i've actually really been enjoying it i told my mom to watch it and she's like the biggest reality guru and i was like you've got to watch this like the storyline and the way they set things up like it's just i don't know it's really interesting

what's funny, and I don't know, has any bachelor people been on Perfect Match?

First time.

Was this the first time?

That feels like that Mean Girls quote where it's like seeing your teacher outside of the classroom or whatever.

Like seeing them at a time.

Yes.

It feels like that a little bit.

It was a little weird for sure.

But I like it, but I'm like, oh my gosh, like the dynamics are just different.

Yeah, it's funny to see like the Netflix people, like the too hot to handle in challenges versus like Rachel in challenges where she's just a little like, oh, I don't, or should we be kissing right now?

I don't know.

And the too hot to handle people are like, I'm going to love bomb the shit out of me.

You're like, I have a vibrating anal gland speeds or something.

Literally.

And Rachel's like, I'm just here for the right reason.

Vibrating their anal glands.

Yes.

Yes.

That's exactly what's happening.

And even during the makeout challenge or whatever, like, I'm like, oh, like, I feel like Bachelor kind of needs to be protected in a little bit just because if they're, I don't know if it's like the kids at school with like different lunch tables but like the love island people are definitely like they're going to cool parties like they're using maybe no for sure you know they're stealing their mom's alcohol yeah they're doing that and then you have bachelor where they're just like you can tell they're trying to kind of break this like perfect like please just don't let me get canceled please just don't let me like rocking back and forth kind of narrative versus like the love island people are like whatever like they're like so chill and relaxed it's like you want to be like oh they're not kissing good because like they're from the bachelor like they are good kissers but they're just nervous right now.

Like Long Island people are used to having buttholes in their face while making out.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So the dynamic has been.

I've liked seeing them on it.

And I feel like they're kind of like opening up and like getting out of their shell a little bit.

But Rachel shouldn't have to go through this thing again with Clayton to answer your question.

It was crazy.

No, it's insane.

Clayton,

when we interviewed him, he said he was surprised by Rachel's, how did he say?

Intensity.

Intensity by

her reaction the next day.

He thought it was a little too intense.

I think that tracks based off of what he

tracks in terms of how he has been responding to things.

He's kind of in his own la-la-la.

He also said that she had like said something or he alluded to like him finding out something that like really turned him off.

And he wasn't comfortable telling Rachel or the public what that was.

So what we're all at a little bit of loss.

Um, we're all confused.

It was giving like she wants a party and I don't.

It was giving like maybe, I don't know, her breath stunk or something.

And he's like, I just can't tell her.

Like she will take it as such an attack.

I can't.

It can't come from me.

He was like, I honestly want to tell someone close to her.

Oh, what?

I feel like it's giving he thinks that she cares what people think and he doesn't doesn't kind of.

I think that she's kind of going into that like love island energy realm and he's still stuck in like perfect la la lay i really enjoy talking to rachel because like rachel came like when you know rachel and i had a bit of fun because like when obviously when rachel is the bachelorette as you know like we cover this as a show and we understand like we're we might say things that like rub people the wrong way or they don't appreciate our commentary on the show and like we we totally get that uh and obviously i think rachel like you know i've said something she hated nick she hated she hated she she absolutely hated

nick yeah 100 yeah uh but then she came on uh wonderfully when she went on bachelor in paradise and we had a lovely conversation and we've made up.

We buried the hatchet.

And then Rachel came in this time kind of like just more like, you know what, I'm on reality TV.

Yeah.

You know, just like, this is not that serious.

I'm doing TV.

I might have some critics.

She, she was like, just willing to like make fun of herself, like, just be fun.

And it was such a 180 from like just how earnest Rachel was.

Like you said, I think a lot of it is just coming from bachelor name where it's just like, you are just, you better not be there for the wrong reasons.

Because if you are, like, you will feel the wrath.

And I just, the emote, I felt like it's ironic because like Clayton's talked so much about this emotional journey he's on, emotional maturing, suggested to Rachel that they are both like a better version of themselves and then kind of implied to us that maybe he found that she wasn't.

But like, again, seeing and talking to Rachel, just her more kind of carefree approach, to me, screams more like she's really matured, you know, like, because you really just to do you, you can't take yourself that seriously in this world, right?

If you want to keep doing it, you know, because if, if, like, I totally empathize with Clayton, but if, if, if your goal to come back on reality TV is to like show people who you really are, you're in trouble.

This isn't the place.

This isn't

you're not in charge of that edit, and those people don't give a fuck.

You go ahead and stop posting,

just keep posting and keep dancing and keep doing your thing.

Dancing, yeah.

Um,

he's better off at doing a bunch of just like Instagram lives than going on reality tv to show who he really is you know i i think so too i think just showing a little glimpse of who you are is sometimes um that's the move and it's like you have control over that it's great i will say though i don't i never really liked them two together and not saying even before like when the season was yeah i i think and i maybe just because i know rachel not saying that either of them are like i just don't know if i see the compatibility yeah and i feel like they just had a little bit of a comfort kind of thing but I'm like, Rachel, I feel like you want something so different, somebody who's like exploring and like you know, going out into the world, she loves to travel, like all these things.

And then, well, I don't know Clayton, so I don't really know what he wants, but I think it's different than what Rachel wants.

It could be a little bit different, yeah.

What are your thoughts on Daniel and how he handles, you know, some of the issues that arise with Lucy?

How does being triggered?

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel, he's the one who like who he gets, like I know, I know these people so bad names, that guy Yeah, he gets like mad at her a lot for being embarrassed.

Yes, yeah um okay with her laughing that was the second time yeah talking like you're talking too loud You're laughing.

You're doing too much.

I that's a major red flag immediately but so she's gonna be laughing with your friends and all of a sudden you kind of feel jealous or something and like she finds other people funny.

Like that's okay.

Right.

This is okay.

And I don't feel like she was giving anything more than it was like a conversation where she's just laughing out loud.

But what was crazy is like her being like, well, can I, can we have a conversation?

Can I like explain to you what?

Because like they're laughing at the fact that he has the same birth date as her very, very toxic ex-boyfriend and like, oh, ha, ha, he, he.

And he's like, no, it's not a conversation.

It's like.

Done deal.

You shouldn't be laughing that loud with another man.

We're also like, what, 10 days into a dating show?

Right.

So I'm like, if she wants to have a conversation, she should be allowed to have a conversation.

And switch up when she starts crying and gets up.

And he's like, so manipulative, like the hug, it's so toxic.

I'm like, wait, wait, wait.

No, I'm really, I'm so.

He was wanting that out of her.

Like, you, I think that's some, like, how some people do relationships.

It's like, they want to create like, you know, a little bit of like toxic energy a little bit.

And then they want to be able to solve it.

So it makes them come closer together.

And she's probably like, or I hope she's like, what the hell is this guy doing?

Like, recognizing that pattern.

I don't think he's a bad person, but I can tell, like, like he keeps falling into that like dynamic which is i

am not here for it and i'm like you're doing that with cameras 10 days in you're making her cry multiple times and it's like for what for not know anything about her well i think what you're it's weird because like i'm watching this and i'm also i'm like you know it's easy to be critical and watch it and kind of like And I'm always like, well, what was I like when I was in my early 20s?

Like, if I were to come on a show like this, right?

And, but you're also like watching Bachelor in Paradise, like like that thing like brian and even jeremy it's like a lot of these men are very much giving like when it's not about them

it's always like what's the big deal i don't like what what is like nothing's that nothing's that serious it's not a big deal but when they when it's emotionally about them and they're like they turn into the emotional babies biggest babies like it's it's it's like there's this lack of self-awareness about like

i guess being empathetic about what it is to be in someone else's shoes but boy it's like it's like these young men and now are in this climate of, you know, be more vulnerable, go to therapy, talk about your feelings.

And they're like subscribing to that, but like completely checking out when it's, they feel so validated to talk about their feelings.

Or like that they get to use some sort of jargon that like explains it, but at the same time, it's like, no, you're just being reactionary.

You're not even listening or like trying to have a conversation.

It's my boundary.

You're not supposed to laugh at me.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm being brutally honest with you right now.

And it's like, bro, we get that.

Yes.

But there's no empathy.

You don't want to understand where i'm coming from it's just my side i'm telling you how i feel respect it and it's just like okay but there's two sides it's like they've been told to like express their feelings for their first time so they feel so righteous they got the pat on the back and it's like all right doing this every day it's like you can't expect to like release your feelings if you're being an asshole and it be received by everybody right it's like you can express your feelings and maybe it doesn't come out the right way or whatever but i don't know i i think that there's something to that

he's allowed he's like i was honest but i said the truth i said the truth but i feel like a lot of these guys are like having this conversation, like in the mirror, of like how it's supposed to go and then acting shocked that there was another response.

You know what I mean?

They're like, no, it's not supposed to go this way.

I'm supposed to tell you, and you're supposed to take it, and it's supposed to be okay.

And I'm a good guy.

And it's like, no.

And then they cut to like Daniel's ITM.

And he's like, yeah, but just like women first.

And I'm just like, my mom raised me to always treat women right.

This is like cutting from yelling at her.

Yeah, for laughing too.

And it's like a healer man.

If you have to say, this is the second time you embarrass me.

There will not be a third.

Literally, why are you crying?

Exactly.

If you have to say, I do this because this, I have to do this, I, this is where I came from, blah, blah.

I'm like, just show what you're doing instead of telling it.

And that's usually kind of when you see, like, oh, like, maybe they're just saying this to make them feel like they're the lion doesn't have to tell you that they're a lion.

It's like, you don't have to tell me you're an understanding person, be an understanding person.

But, like, if I have to explain to you why your words hurt my feelings, and then you tell me I'm wrong for having that reaction, here we are.

We did have an interesting wrench wrench being thrown in with Lucy and Daniel going to the boardroom and then being like, Okay, like, who's the most compatible?

And then putting AD and Madison and Freddie as most compatible.

And then they're being like, Okay, those two have to go on dates.

And then they have the other person in the couple has to go home.

Loved it for Madison and Freddie.

Yeah, hated it for Adam and Fred and Ollie.

I mean, because like they're with child.

Well, and I'm

voting for you.

And I'm like, I don't want to see Ollie on a date with anybody else.

But also, mom and dad.

I feel like maybe they've had to have a couple of tough conversations oh honey yeah since this has been airing i can't imagine he remembered everything he said oh you're talking about ollie

i mean he goes on this date with two women and is massaging them and then they're like oh and like what happened with your other they like they had to go home he's like yeah but honestly like that was so long ago like i don't even remember like what happened this is making it easier yeah this is making it easier huh cuddling with justine kissing her, and then waving to the camera, him going, You're so sexy.

And the look on his face was worth it, though, when AD is walking.

And I'm like, oh my God, I need the next batch to drop immediately.

Question for you.

Because, like,

you met Dylan, you're now husband on the beaches of paradise.

Can I just say I watched it and loved it?

And I'm just loving that you guys are just like, oh, really?

Yeah.

Thanks.

I don't know if I've really watched it.

It was the last great season.

It was a good season.

It was a great season.

It was a really good season.

My question, kind of to you know, Natalie's point, it's, what, did you guys have tough conversations?

Because when you get asked, like, when you're in the lead, like, what did you do?

You want to just be like,

you know, of course I like kissed people.

Like, you know, and you're not sure how much they want to know.

But then when you watch it back, it's like, oh, I forgot.

Yeah, I did say that.

They're like, why didn't you tell me that?

And you're just like, I tried to block it out of my memory.

You know, he's like, well, I really got up in there in the thighs, you know, and massaged.

Yeah, he was really all up on them.

You know, or like,

but I really told her how loud she was.

Dylan watch it back and then have to be like, oh, yeah.

So we weren't like living together yet when it was airing.

And I was doing a lot of traveling.

So was he.

I knew like the first two weeks when there was like, you know, a little bit of chaos going on, like I was the center of the drama.

Oh, the worst weeks ever.

Really.

I mean, at that moment, like whenever all of the chaos was going on, where I was like in between two guys, four days in, it's fine.

But love triangle.

I was doing like the triangle thing.

And, but I, at that part watching back when it was airing, I was like, I feel so bad for the villains or people that don't look great on these shows for even a millisecond.

Like, I got lucky on my first round of like, maybe they cut me out and I looked a little bland, but at least I wasn't like getting all of these like crazy messages.

My DMs were crazy during that.

But regardless of that, did Dylan and I talk about a bunch of stuff while we were filming Bachelor in Paradise?

Like during it,

I don't think we talked about enough things.

I think a lot of things after we're like, why didn't we ask each other this stuff?

Luckily, it was all pretty compatible, but you would think that we would have all of these conversations or a list of stuff to ask, but we were just kind of in la la lands.

And we did ask questions and, you know, normal stuff, but it was just more like, oh yeah, like our friends would like love each other and stuff like that instead of like life principles the only way to do it is to not watch it yeah like they I hope AD and Ali are not watching it because again it is edited you can't expect the other person to remember every detail nor do you really want to hear every detail And you have a revisionist history of what your expectations were when you watch it back and you feel a bit blindsided because they didn't tell you.

Like there's no winning.

The only smart option is to just kind of like, even Steven, whatever happened, we're good.

Let's just, we're happy now.

None of that matters.

That's a TV show.

That's like the only way to do it.

I will say, like, JR talking to AD, the man is so,

it's, it's like, he's too sexual.

It's like so disrespectful the way he's just like, oh, I would love to see you in a bikini.

Oh, and we'd be doing cardio tonight.

Like, we, like, you're just, you're gross.

It's like, honestly, the first man on TV that I've seen like has daddy issues where usually it's the women talking about daddy issues and men talk about their mommy issues.

But he was talking about his dad being a pastor and how he had to like wait before marriage.

And now he's become this, like, guy who's this constantly talking.

Like, he's talking about digmatizing people and like stealing people's, you know, it's like girlfriend.

Sorry, you had to wait to have sex before you got married, but Jesus fucking Christ, man.

Reel it in a little bit.

He lasted, what, eight hours in that house?

And then AD, like, him touching AD's stomach of like our abs.

Like, don't touch me.

I don't, huh?

And even AD was like, okay, like, moved his hand it's like what he is just i was so glad that he did not get a match and he was on and off our screens because that man is very hard to watch yeah i was like sandy what what is the redeeming qualities here

god sandy figure it out honey she literally brought that man back for her for herself essentially and then was like no i'm gonna stick with my guy

yeah i'm like you brought him in for what for what i feel i feel like sandy was being a tv player right there i feel like she was

tv by the way a team player for the network and just just, all right, I'll talk to them.

I'll be messy.

I'll, I'll, because I don't feel, you know, there was nothing really there.

But Louie and Sandy, I like, he made her cry, but also by saying that she's not there for the right reasons.

Yeah, listen, I think out of everyone, I think Louie handles, well, Ollie too, and Freddie too.

I think he handles confrontation quite well.

I think, you know, obviously Daniel, we have Clayton, we, you know, just some of these men who like don't know how to communicate.

And I do do think he's like, listen, like, let me preface this.

You did nothing wrong, but these are just like, this is how I'm feeling about it all.

I think is like a very mature way of communicating his feelings.

But

I do think him being the whole like, oh, I'm going to go talk to her because she's talking to him.

I want to be a little toxic.

I want to be a little, you know, is a little telling.

Him and Ollie, when the girls left and did their little handshake of when the mice are away, the cats will play.

I was like, fuck you both.

Rooting for you at the moment.

Can we get a movie night on this show?

Do they have like a movie night situation?

They should.

They do have AD there, who's going to get all that.

It's on the ground.

She should be like coming back to the women with like, this is what I was doing.

It was very messy last season.

They did a

very messy last season.

So that was

a

lot went down.

And apparently, what I've heard is that every man.

The boy's boy.

Don't, yeah, no one's staying loyal.

So something about Louis,

he's UK based right

I feel like anytime I watch the UK shows love is blind UK love island UK the way they communicate even if it's not what you want to hear or something you don't agree with the way they were like raised I guess to communicate it's just kind of like clear and there's not a lot of the like wondering what they're thinking kind of thing it's like just putting it out there and saying it.

And Dylan and I always say that anytime we watch like Love Island UK, we're like, they're just like getting conversations out of the way.

Maybe it's a US U.S.

thing.

Maybe it's just the people they're bringing on the show, but I feel like there's like this like, I don't know.

So I noticed that with Louis too.

I was like, well, I wish he didn't say that, but I was like, respect for respect for

putting out.

There's a self-awareness, if you want to call it self-awareness, of like in the U.S., that you're being filmed, that you're on TV, that there's going to be an edit.

How you're going to be perceived.

That you have like, hopefully, brands coming your way.

I also do think it's hard for people in general, though, to just like say how they feel.

And I think it's a lot of like anxiety and a lot of stuff that's just like, not so much that it's here-based, but I've noticed that with UK as well, is that I'm like, they're direct and they say exactly what they mean.

And it's not this like, okay, but she said that, but like, does she actually mean that?

Because she kind of said it with a smile, like, you know what I mean?

I feel like here we're always trying to like read in because everything's so cryptic or like, I don't want to hurt your feelings.

So I really like you.

I just don't know that this is working out, but like, I want to be friends.

But at the same time, if you want to go grab coffee and it's like, what do you want?

Are you breaking up with me or not?

Right.

You know, and like UK, they're just like, listen, not feeling it, but like, I really wish you the best.

And it's like, all right, that sucks.

Walk it off.

And they just kind of move on.

When's the next batch come up?

Yeah.

Friday.

Friday.

All right.

Well, we have another batch of episodes coming out on Friday.

We'll have to see what happens.

All right, moving on to The Valley.

You're watching that.

Did you watch some of the Valley last night?

I did.

So dark.

I did.

Well, we have a rapid recap to bring everyone up to speed in case you didn't watch last night.

Mary has a quick rapid recap for y'all.

All right.

So if you missed last night's episode of The Valley, here's what happened.

And And if we can get into a moment of absolute misery, we got the Valley Reunion part two.

Jax, once again, was incapable in every single way of seeing Brittany as a person who can exist outside the context of his own narcissism.

And for that reason, I do think it's important to point out that his lifted sneakers still barely brought him feet down floor level on the couch.

So short king, I guess, for him.

In a rare moment of community, however, the Valley crew came together to honor and mourn the loss of the only constant place of peace for the group and the one thing that Jax and Kristen Stewart have in common, which is a love of Hooters.

And in honor of Hooters and their impact on the Valley, I would like to take a moment of silence

to thank Hooters for their service.

All right.

Anyway, we've got Janet and Zach still hating each other.

Nothing's changed there.

Also, Jax gave a more heartfelt and honest apology to Danny for coming coming at him about his drinking than he ever has to Brittany for making her life a living hell, but that's neither here nor there.

And although I disagree with pretty much everything Janet has done this season, I do want to give a shout out to her for coining the name Danny Darko because it's really fun and cool.

And I think Danny should lean into it merch-wise.

And that's maybe just something to think about for Danny.

Finally, Janet and Jason decide that Jasmine's issues about Danny grabbing Melissa are actually about them.

So I guess welcome to the LGBTQ plus community, Janet and Jason.

Hopefully, it'll make them more interesting going forward.

Overall, thank God that the culture awards aired right after this because I needed a break of levity.

Honestly, yeah, Danny and Nia, they have the tired but happy merch.

They definitely need to add in a little bit of Danny Darko.

They really should.

Danny Darko.

Profit off of it.

Yeah.

Profit off of it.

Just a little bit.

It could be like all dark colors, navies,

espresso browns.

Yeah.

It could look like jax's bar type maybe and it like just slanted yeah slanted they should make like a superhero character

yeah and then on the back it should just say i'm sorry yes and it's him apologizing for the 900th time yeah permanently this time or jax came for me and all i got was a stupid t-shirt Yeah, not bad.

That's nice.

Jax tried to end me, I think was his right.

Yep.

Jax tried to end me and all I got was a stupid t-shirt.

But all jokes aside, another very dark episode.

I will say, for the first time in a long time, I did feel empathy for Brittany and Jax when they were talking about their child and like just like that journey

of his development early on, only to find out like a year and a half in, you know, that obviously he was diagnosed with autism.

Credit to Brittany really seems incredibly hands-on with bringing awareness to that community and the development around that.

And then again, just back to like Jax, just so dark, just so

for a moment, for a moment, you know, I'm watching it.

And

I hate to admit it, but like Jax, because I'm watching it thinking, this isn't, this feels wrong.

Like maybe Jax is truly just has a mental health problem, you know?

It's like, am I watching someone who's literally sick, sick in the head, needs professional medical mental health care?

And we are watching.

this tragedy being recorded.

And in that lens, I'm, there's, I'm feeling just a little bit of empathy.

Like maybe he doesn't know better.

And then now he's just like, yeah, it's all, you know, and then you have.

Even Brittany's like, I find this hard to, like, I feel like this is all performative.

So she said that.

But then when you think of it in that context, right?

You think of it in that context that like

Jax is up there essentially faking a mental health manic attack

and saying what he thinks he needs to say, but at the end of the day, all bullshit.

Then you must believe that Jax, who's like saying, oh, I I miss my kid and things like that but no in reality that he probably does enjoy the freedoms of being a single man and enjoys like I think he enjoys in the words of Kenny Rodriguez having sex with hella bitches yep I think he enjoys like the the control I think he enjoys the toxicity but that he can have over Britney I think he enjoys yeah being able to do whatever he wants and go and play and like i think he enjoys all of that and i think he enjoys having to like

sit on that couch and like have these people kind of be like,

you can still change Jax.

There's still time and him like kind of him like crying or whatever the fuck that is.

Jason falls for it.

And this is like Jason.

No, Jason and Jax deserve each other.

100%.

And Janet.

Throw Janet in there.

Well, yeah.

Jason was terrible.

Yeah.

This episode.

I'm just like, I've watched.

Vanderpump Rules since the start.

I've watched eight reunions, I think maybe nine, but eight reunions where every year that he's Jax is confronted with his terrible behavior and his excuse every time is, listen, I know that I'm fucked up.

My brain is sprained.

I need, I'm a work in progress.

And it's just like, how many years, year after year, are you a work in progress until it's just like, we're not working on anything?

Yeah.

I'm going to eat my words a little bit.

Okay, here's why there's the only reason I would defend Jason because at least he's having his wife's back.

You know,

while I don't agree with anything that's coming out of Janet's mouth this season, like I at least respect, you know, if you're going to be married, and just forgetting about reality TV, you got to have, you got to be a team, you got to be united front, you have to have your partner's back, whatever conversations you have behind closed doors, whatever.

But, like, public facing, like, if you can't have your partner's back, what's the point of being fucking married?

This is all to say, too, like, because you see in a lot of reality TV people, a lot of people in this universe, like, which is why relationships often don't work, because at the end of the day, there's a lot of people who are on TV on Bravo or like they're married to the job, right?

In the sense that like, it's like, there's no, hey,

our relationship, we choose us first.

We're going to protect each other first.

There's a lot of people where it's just like, listen, if you're married to me, everything's on the table.

It's fair game.

Like we had Tamara Judge on yesterday.

And like, you know, whatever you think of Tamara Judge, like, I honestly kind of like respect how she moves in Bravo world where it's like, she doesn't really bring Eddie on

make it a storyline.

She does, there seems to to be a separation.

Like there's a disconnect.

Okay, I'm on, I'm filming, I'm doing TV, fine, I'm leaving.

And there's other people where it's just like everything about my life is fair game.

And I'm going to talk about who I slept with.

I'm going to talk about whatever.

And if, if, if I have to disrespect my partner in the meantime,

it's, to me, that's crazy, but there's people do it all the time.

And it's like, at least Jason has his wife's back.

I'll agree with that, but I'm also kind of like, I also think that they're both the same level of deluded that I'm just kind of like the way that he was like, oh,

all I hear is, see, is everybody else spending their time on camera talking about my wife?

Like, what did she say?

What did she do?

And then it's like, while simultaneously the other cast members are calling out her behavior, she's contradicting herself on the, on the couch.

And then it's still like, well, what did she do that like everyone's so mad at her?

And it's like, bro, I do think that accountability does matter in a relationship.

Yes, always have your partner's back.

But it's also like, if you can't admit that, like, hey, you did something wrong, like, you know, like, let's not pretend like Janet was walking around this whole season, never said a bad thing about anybody.

And everybody just decided to hate her for no reason.

No, I know, but all I'm saying is if Jason, if behind closed doors, he's just like, listen, I don't know what the fuck she's saying.

But, you know, but like, I'm just going to have my wife's back.

I can respect that.

I did appreciate Jesse in that moment coming out and being like, I will also say like.

Janet, a hunt, like, she's all like, we're great in real life.

But then watching that back, I was like, who the fuck is this?

Like at the dinner at the Mexican restaurant when Janet, like out of nowhere, is like trying to come for Kristen.

And Kristen's like, why are you talking right now?

It's like, I was glad that Jesse did put his input in because it was like, okay, it's not just Danny and Nia

and Zach, you know?

Also, I have to say, as someone who has suffered through two miscarriages, Zach, him saying that to Janet is straightforward, just evil.

It is absolutely evil.

He's had all of this time to prepare a response and his response is, I don't know why I said that.

Like, you knew you would be asked about it.

How do you have nothing to say?

And again, I'm not defending what he said because, yes, what he said was absolutely not okay.

What I will say is that I'm kind of like, we watched him spin out at the finale where we're just like, okay, clearly he gets intoxicated to a point where he's saying and doing maybe even demonic behavior.

And maybe Janet's justified for that.

But I do think that I am like, whatever he was saying, clearly he was spinning out in a situation where Brittany was there, but Janet wasn't there.

And it was like, you're choosing to bring this back.

And instead of having a conversation with Zach, being like, hey, what you said was fucked up.

You should go to Janet and apologize.

She chose to go to Janet, say all of these things.

And Janet's hopping on podcasts saying that like everybody's wanting her baby not to come to full term.

And I'm like, that's what's so dark and gross about this group.

It's like, Brittany, you're supposed to be best friends with Zach from Kentucky.

You should know that this is how Zach behaves.

And if you think it's messed up as his friend, hold him accountable.

Say, what you said last night was absolutely disgusting.

And I want to remind you because I want you to know how disgusting it is.

She's just friends with everybody because they haven't made it to her.

That's maybe my biggest gripe with Brittany this season is that she's going to people, telling them what her friends are saying that trust her in a room, what they're saying behind their back, and then being like, oh, well, I just said it.

And it's like, no, bro, like, you either have your friends back and hold them accountable and then fix it, but you're just causing drama.

And then being like, oh, I don't know how that, how that got started.

I just find it interesting what issues they get hung up on.

Yeah.

Like, it seems like what Zach's Zach's comment would be a major issue, which it is and was, but then that's forgiven.

But then somebody, you know, sneaking to kill in the closet, that's also an issue.

But it's interesting the weight that they give these issues that I think are different weights in a sense.

And they're like, anyways, like, move on.

Like, I always think that's so interesting with them.

I'm like, do you guys even really care about it?

Or like, what's the deal with it?

It's just confusing.

This is a father of four, and you're using language.

Like, they're like, they're trying to paint him.

It's like, it's gross.

It's gross what they're trying to do to Nan.

They breezed over Brittany saying in part one that the ring footage showed Jax throwing her into a rose bush and it was just kind of like, okay, well, and anyways, movement.

And Danny is the devil.

And I'm like, how do you guys focus so much on Danny and his behavior when you guys are sitting here acting like Jax is some reformed saint doing the same thing he's been doing for over a decade?

But Danny's an easy target.

Exactly.

He is.

And Bravo like leans into it with like friend of show, Christina, who we had on, you know, a couple of weeks ago, her, her posting being like, at the end, they're putting a alcohol alcoholism awareness like hotline and it's like the whole episode was brittany saying that jax has like domestically hurt her and like has thrown things and like you're not gonna put a dv hotline in there like they added a dv hotline yeah yeah they did this episode

they took the note yeah but no i found it ridiculous that jasmine is now all of a sudden finding the fourth apology first apology in front of cameras as

you know not genuine or as shit or whatever.

And being like, well, I can't believe, you know, you coming to me and saying, like, oh, you're really going to bring this up.

It's like, if you had conversations off camera and y'all were good and y'all had seen each other and there was no like any more further conversation.

And then, yeah, for you to bring it up on camera, I'd probably have a question or two of like, is this okay?

And I guess we're good.

I'm convinced.

And this is just my own theory.

I'm not saying that this happened or fact, but I am convinced that Jax did say that he's going to take down Nia and Danny.

And then I think he recruited Jasmine.

I think he recruited Janet and Jason because the way that these people still stand behind Jax and everything that he says.

And it's like, we're all going to take down Danny because Danny and Nia have this perfect image and they and they respect each other and they speak nicely to everyone and they don't talk shit about everybody.

So let's drag them down.

It feels like it was a joint effort.

among the least interesting characters of the valley to try to take down the one functional couple that actually has respect for each other.

The way Andy Cohen kept giving Jax tissues

when he defended Jax, being like, it just seems like, you know, I've had him on the couch many times, and he's, this is the most progress that, and I was just like, Andy, stop it.

And also, I thought it was a very inappropriate question to ask either of them if they're still in love with each other after everything that has gone through.

Yeah, thank you.

100%.

Let's not give room for like, oh, let's question ourselves.

Manipulation.

You're giving room for him to manipulate her sitting on that couch being like, I can't answer that.

It's just too much.

Next question, next question.

You're now making her question like, and her having to be like, listen, the hardest thing I had to do is leaving someone that you're still in love with.

And like, you're now leaving room for them to like potentially work.

You know, it's like, that's a dangerous scenario that like Andy's putting them in of just like, do you want to like confess?

Like, are y'all still in love with it?

Do you want to get back?

Is there room to get back together?

Could you work through it?

Do you want to like maybe not?

It's like, this is, this is a crazy conversation.

It's a crazy.

Yeah.

After everything that she's saying and the fact that she hasn't seen him her voice is shaking he hasn't made eye contact with her the entire time i'm like all of these factors and you're gonna ask that question to wrap up the segment and having brittany every time jax tries to like say some bullshit lie britney being like no you have texted me saying a b c and d and then having zach and jasmine and kristen like nodding being like yep we've seen it we read it yep we know exactly what she's talking about it's crazy the man literally is trying to get tapped into her home cameras like that is a sick person Sorry.

As soon as he said, Yeah, I probably will still rage text you after this.

That defeated the entire argument for me personally.

I was like, Oh, that's it.

You've got plans.

Just don't say that.

Just don't say it.

Like, but in my head, I was like, Oh, okay.

That's it.

Do you remember the beginning of the first part where it's like, she's, she said something like she's nervous or I'm scared right now?

And he's like, You should be.

And it was just like, This man, yeah, there was no changing for Jax Taylor.

So I'm glad that he's taken himself off the show, but like, this is not a place for him.

Dark, dark.

He's dark Jax.

And also, wait, sorry, my favorite, Janet.

When Janet said, when they clocked her for deleting Brittany's birthday post because she wasn't made aware that Brittany made up with Zach, I was like, Jason, Jason, Jason, what more toxicity do you need?

That I'm like, your friend that's being like, maybe I'm just a really nice person and I'm a really good friend to Brittany.

And then it's like, oh, you're going to punish her because she talked to somebody and didn't ask your permission beforehand?

With Janet and Jason specifically i don't know what they're making to be on the valley

but this can't be worth it yeah you know because like they're not getting the followers and now you got a stupid line tattoo

brand deals i mean she's on a billboard with sheena like so i don't like it couldn't have been that much like what is i've got a shirt for jason i went on the valley and all i got was the stupid line tattoo which that line tattoo It's the thinnest.

It looks like he's got a piece of hair crooked.

It's on his finger by accident.

It's like, that's going to keep women away from you.

Like, that's your plan of like, like, I'm taking it.

It's like, are you sure?

Doesn't feel like you were very committed to the bit.

Seems like you asked him to finish early.

I will say the one thing Janet did get out of being on the Valley is that she was somehow in the crowd at the culture awards.

She snuck in through the back door.

They were like, Janet, you're not allowed in here.

She was like, I'm a seat filler.

Well, maybe that's how they get her to come back.

I mean, she's a great villain.

She's a great villain.

Lack of awareness is great on television.

I don't think so.

I just, I'm just kind of shocked that she keeps showing up.

I don't think so.

I just don't know what's the point.

Yeah.

Some people say, like, you know what I mean?

Any attention is good attention.

I mean, the fact that Jesse is like just now realizing that maybe he shouldn't say certain things about the mother of his daughter because she'll one day see them is like

now you think you you're thinking about that because she kissed him like because she kissed another man like after they already had separated right and you're still trying to have your gotcha moment being like you cheated you cheat it just say it no one one cares.

Like, and whatever Michelle was like, he was like, the one thing I hate more, or there's nothing I hate more than cheaters and cheating.

And she was like, that's funny because when we separated, you started sleeping with a married woman.

So which is it?

And he was like,

oh, my 25 years ago, she's, she was not.

Yeah.

How old is your ex?

Yeah.

I was like, wait a second.

She was married for 25 years.

And then Jesse just was like, okay.

I did.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I have nothing else to say about that.

So move on.

Andy does move on quickly between Jesse and Michelle.

I don't think he's,

he doesn't really let Michelle.

I don't know why.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't understand why Michelle is so hated.

He hasn't gets, I just, I'm shocked.

There's not more empathy for Michelle.

Yeah.

I don't know how you can watch anything that Jesse does.

And regardless of whatever you think of Michelle, just not have some like empathy for like dealing with a man like Jesse.

Like just to be, I don't.

She gets all the credit in the world from me.

But my favorite too was, I don't know if it was Jasmine or who was next to him, but

talking about his pants.

And he was like, they look really cheap.

And he's like, no, they're really expensive.

Nan and I were talking about this last night where it's just like, you know, with ASNIC, sometimes you get people calling in.

And if someone has like, they're dating someone and there's like a relationship problem, it's always like, you know, you can always break up.

Whatever your problem is, you can get out, you know?

And I don't know how you feel, but like, cause you're married too, but like, there are some people who call in and there are people you're, you're, when you're married and you got kids, you're stuck to a certain extent, even if you can get divorced, you know, and to be married to someone like a Jax or a Jesse,

people who are just like our emotional terrorists.

Um, and that wear heels, yes,

like, you know, there are some people who make choices where, like, this is my life, and this is, and I have to deal with this, and there's no out.

Brittany said multiple times, she's like, This is a living hell for me.

Like, that is, and you're like, really thinking of like her actual day-to-day and with their son and everything.

I'm like, that is, it's so dark and really sad.

Yeah.

Her having to be him being like, I'm home alone every night.

Like, I'm so lonely.

She's like, no, the fuck, you're not.

You don't know what lonely is.

Like, I am home alone with our son, like

going through all of this by myself.

And you're like, not around.

You don't help.

Jax goes, it must be hard.

That was crazy.

The revolving door of women apparently coming through his apartment too.

The way that he's just able to excuse all of his.

He's like, yeah, I like, I like the control.

It's somebody else's fault every time.

All right.

Well, hopefully we got one more episode of Jax Taylor, and then we'll never have to talk about him.

Hopefully, ever.

Hopefully, he'll find us.

There won't be other burdens we'll have to bear.

I'm sure he'll be on special horses next season.

How civilians, again, yeah, he'll find us.

He unblocked me, so I can now see

what he's up to.

He still got Nick blocked.

Three blocks ago.

Last time I checked.

Love that.

Why were you blocked?

It's a very special group.

I don't know why I was blocked.

I think my old

agency that I was with, she would post me.

And I, from gathering when I, this was years ago, somehow we were all at a dinner, whatever.

And of course, I had to bring it up because it was like kind of trending.

It was like blocked by Jackson.

And I was like, I was like, so why'd you block me?

Like, because I don't know what else to really say to him.

And it's like me.

Like,

I'm such a different world.

Like, whatever, just funny.

And I think it was just because she would post me a lot.

And then, so he didn't want to see it.

This was a publicist?

Yes, at the time.

At the time.

Yeah.

So I was also blocked by Jax.

Wow.

Didn't you go on a trip with Britney?

I did two years ago.

Her birthday or something.

With

like the publicist that I used to be with, she brought a bunch of her clients.

And so I went on a trip with Brittany.

How was that?

So I'm always Team Brittany.

Yeah, I always team Brittany.

Yeah.

Well, Hannah, it's good to see you.

Yes.

It was so, so nice.

You guys are really great at this.

Thank you, Hannah.

You guys should do it for a living, really.

Actually, we were thinking about starting our own show.

We should do that.

Where can people find you, follow you, all that fun stuff?

What's going on?

so i have an app it's called seti app she does and it's not going to give you a bbl or like change your face it's just filters and they're really great filters to be creative so we have seti app and i'm hannah oh my gosh i used to be hannah g11 on instagram three weeks ago four weeks ago changed it to at hannah g i paid for it so weird i would never do it

11 Yeah, it was just fun.

It's a good moment.

It was just fun.

I said, you know what?

I'm an adult.

You found Hannah G and you're like, hey, babe, what?

Can you take 11 and I'll take it?

Somebody brought it up to me and so i wasn't actively looking and they're like if you want to do it like we have it and i said let's do it so i'm at hannah g

and on tick tock i'm at hanna g11 i couldn't lose the 11 there you know what i need to find whoever is natalie joy and because i'm the natalie je joy you know

yeah

it's two j's it's like it's a little bit of a stutter you know what i'm saying yeah it does it does

well it's always good to see you hannah you will have to come back thank you also to our guest claynet eckhart for joining us as well.

If you did not get to listen to the Going Deeper episode with Tamara Judge, it is out now.

It is awesome.

It's a whole conversation with really who is Tamara Judge.

And I found it to be fascinating, electrifying.

And team Tamara.

Check out all our amazing episodes that are out and available, including our Ask Nick episodes.

We will see you next week.

We got a great week lined up for you.

It's going to be amazing.

We'll see you then.

Bye-bye.

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