E978 – Going Deeper with Tamra Judge

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Do you watch them all?

I haven't watched all of them this season, I'll be honest.

In general, do you watch?

Normally I do,

but it's like, it's almost weird because I have to watch so many housewife shows for the podcast that I'm like, I don't know if I want to watch this one.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And it gives me anxiety watching it.

I bet.

Still, do you get anxiety watching just your own or just other ones too?

The other ones I'm fine with, but watching my own, it's just like,

what did I do now?

Has it always been like that?

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, I watch it first, I'm like,

like this, and then I have to watch it again to like really get

what happened.

Absolutely.

That is interesting.

I don't know where I want to start.

You're crazy.

Tamara Judd, welcome to the Volve.

Yeah, Tamara, welcome.

Thank you.

I feel like I'm like the last one to be on your show from my cast.

Really, honestly, it's just an honor having you.

I'm really excited.

Thank you.

We're big fans.

When I met your wife first last year at Crystal's party.

You were an iconic housewife.

Thank you.

And you're like an enigma.

Why do you say that?

Because you're so good at your job, but you also seem like, I feel like you're a rare housewife, at least for, I don't know, me and Natalie, where, and then Natalie met you at Crystal's, right?

So, and I hadn't met you in person, and so I was like, how's camera?

Because I think there's some people she's like total asshole.

She loves you.

Yeah.

Loved.

I was like, honestly, I love her.

And, and there's, I think there's just people in reality TV who, you know, I think some people find to be harder to read or figure out.

I think some people, you're just kind of like, you know, I think there's a lot of discussions about like Jax Taylor and Bravo these days.

And there's just, you know, if you've met him and I had a long time ago, you're just like, yeah, I mean, he's just kind of, that's just who he is on and off the camera.

There's no

TV.

It's great.

You know, it is great TV at times.

And with, with you, there's like this level of like, is she just a real, is she so good at what she does sometimes?

And then obviously you do things that like, when we talk about the show, you know, as much as we might like root for you, you know, you're like,

can't believe she did that shit, you know?

That seems.

But what would the show be without me?

Exactly.

I don't know.

Exactly.

Right now.

I mean, so far we're like on episode four, and every scene is about me.

Yeah.

And things I'm not even in.

That's being talked about.

I want to start before pre-housewives.

Like, who was Tamara before any of the housewives?

Do we have old pics of Tamra?

I can give you some.

Okay.

I'll send you some.

Like the ones that Jen you.

How far?

Yeah, yeah.

How far back are you talking?

Like, what?

As far as you want to go.

Oh, my God.

So you've been on for 15, over 15 years?

Yeah.

How long has OC been on the air?

So it's been on 19 years.

I would have been, this would have been my 17th season, but they paused me for two years.

What did you do again?

Cried.

Cried.

No, it was really a weird time because COVID hit and I got fired and I wasn't expecting it.

And then, well, I shouldn't say I wasn't expecting it.

I'm expecting it every year.

I never think that I'm going to come back the next year.

I never put that in my head.

I'm just like, it happens, it happens.

So I got the call that I wasn't coming back.

And then I was just kind of like.

devastated.

As time went on, it got worse because I've had this job for 12 years at this point and I knew my schedule.

And, you know, I filmed and I did press and then I did this.

And then we started all over again.

And now I'm all of a sudden I'm like, who, who am I?

And I remember Sophia saying to me, mom, I've only known you as a housewife because she was like two or one when I started.

Like, that's the only job I've known you to do.

So it was hard.

So it took me a while.

And then I got Ultimate Girls Trip.

And then I got the podcast.

And then then when I got the podcast with Teddy, kind of filled that spot of housewives because that's all we talked about as housewives.

So it kind of like filled it.

And I was just like, okay, whatever.

And then I got the call

to come back.

Okay.

So what were you doing before housewives?

So I was,

you know, I, I mean, I can take it really far back.

So

I was a really young mom.

So I got pregnant my last three months of high school.

Oh, wow.

So I

didn't know what I was going going to do.

I didn't know if I was going to keep them.

I didn't know.

Like, what was your family's reaction?

Well, I didn't tell my mom because I knew what my mom would say, but I went home from lunch from school and my boyfriend, Ryan's dad, was there with my mom.

And I walk in and my mom looks at me, cries, and says, I'm too young to be a grandmother.

And I went, oh, fuck.

He told her.

I just been like, really?

Like, so.

Yeah.

So then, you know, I was just like, okay, now she's getting married.

And now, like, you know, in high school, I'm already married.

Nobody knows.

And I'm pregnant.

You were, you got married.

Yes.

Secretly.

Yes.

Was that a you decision or was that a

parents?

My parents.

They had rental houses.

They put me up a house.

Like, you know, everything was great.

You're going to have this kid.

And, you know, my mom was a young mom.

My mom had me at 17 or 16.

I can't remember.

So your mom was 30.

She actually in her 30s.

Early 30s.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

So from there, like, you know, I married Ryan's dad.

That didn't last long.

And then

I was single for quite a while.

And then I married Sophia, who's over there, her dad.

And Ryan was probably

nine or ten.

So you were a single mom.

Yeah.

For how long?

Um,

a long time.

Wow.

Long time.

I mean, I dated.

I had, I dated.

I had boyfriends and stuff.

Did you go to college?

No.

Nope.

Okay.

Didn't go to college.

So then I

met Simon, and I felt like he was the safe way to go.

He was very disciplined.

And I thought, like, you know, I'm working six days a week at a trash company and, you know, I'm barely making ends meet.

What were you doing at a trash company?

I was a receptionist.

That's your first impressions.

But I also dated the owner.

There you go.

I like it.

Yeah.

Did you date him or get the job?

Did you meet him at the job?

I met him at the job, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

There was like four owners or something.

Like a, it was a family-owned business.

Okay.

So, so yeah, so I did that.

And then I got married and started having kids.

And then I got my real estate license.

So I started dabbling in real estate.

Then my girlfriend's like, you should try out for this housewife show.

I'm like, hell no.

Like, I'm not that exciting.

Like, I'm a stay-at-home mom, basically.

I once in a while do real estate.

And they came after me and pursued me because we, I filled out an application being very sarcastic.

They're like, sex.

I'm like, often.

But you know what I mean?

Like all these stupid, like a 12-year-old boy.

Maybe 14.

Didn't say every day.

All the time.

And then I would like.

It's kind of like, you've cheated.

Maybe.

Maybe.

That was wild.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Let's not focus on me.

It's not answering the question.

Wait, so what I cast on the show.

What was the hardest part of being a single mom at that age?

Oh, just being a single mom at that age.

Like all my friends went to college and all my friends were doing other things and I was working all the time and bouncing from my parents' house to my own apartment and not having my utilities turned on at certain times because I didn't have enough money.

And I mean, it was a struggle.

Yeah.

It was a really, really big struggle.

So how did you meet Simon?

I met him at a bar.

I stole his parking space.

Oh, he had his own parking space at the bar.

Well, he was was there like, you know, people like back up and going backwards.

Well, I just like,

I just swerved right in.

Swerved right in.

Oh, Tamara.

I'm like, what?

She doesn't shake.

Maybe.

Is there a problem?

Maybe.

Maybe.

Okay.

So then you came on season three.

I did.

Ross.

I was in Orange County.

And

did you watch the first two seasons?

Did you have anything?

I did.

You did.

I did.

I didn't really know the girls, but, you know, it was in my own backyard.

It was five minutes.

Coda was five minutes from my house.

And like all the restaurants that I go to were on it.

So I thought it was really cool.

And it was like a different type of show than it is now, obviously.

It was just like people just hanging out.

And half the time the cast didn't even film together.

It was like they would go on trips with different people, like friends that weren't even cast members.

Like it was so different.

It was more like individual lives.

Yeah, it was individual lives.

Every once in a while, they would come together.

And I just remember like the producer coming to my house and they're like, do you know Gina?

I go, yeah, I know her.

I know of her.

I run circles around her in real estate, which I did not at all, at all.

And they're like, Oh, really?

I'm like, Yeah,

like that.

And so, I mean, that's how I was just a smart ass, and that's how I got on.

Okay, and nothing's changed.

That's what I was about to ask you.

It kind of feels like maybe that's kind of your stick.

That's just who I am.

Like, I'm always going for the joke, I'm always going, I mean, not always, but in a situation like that.

Um, yeah,

that's what I do.

Okay, do you feel like when you

step on to your, you start filming first day of filming, do you feel like there's a sense of you that kind of is like, all right, time to clock in, like time to?

I think all of us feel that way.

And I think anybody that says that they don't feel that way is lying.

And it's not like, oh, I'm acting to be on the show.

I mean, we know what the show's about.

We know what it's about.

So I, do I think like attitudes are heightened?

Yeah.

For sure.

And you save, I, you know, kind of defended you in our episode Tuesday about what happened in Orange County, about the, you know, Katie trying to blame you for everything she's done.

Girl, I get blamed for everything.

Even if I'm not involved, I get blamed for everything.

What about when you are involved?

Well, I'll take ownership for anything that I'm involved in or anything I do.

But in a situation like this, especially with housewives, you don't blame the messenger.

That's what we're all.

We're all messengers on this show.

Like, I'm not the one that recorded.

You're the one that recorded.

And now it's my problem because I brought it out.

Well, what if I didn't bring it out?

What are we going to talk about?

Exactly.

That's what I was about to say.

I think like what Real Housewives is, is like those moments and like, I think you're so good at it is like saving them for the right time to make the show as good as it can possibly be.

Is that what kind of being a housewife means in the sense that like, if you want to be asked to do this and if you want to say yes to this opportunity, then you don't get to pick and choose what rumors are platformed, so to speak, where it's just like, if you want that type of privacy, don't go on the show.

Don't go on the show.

I mean, if my husband is holding arrested for not having a driver's license because he's not paying child support and it's public, I expect somebody on the show to bring it up.

Or if my husband is on ESPN because there's an FBI investigation, I expect somebody to bring it up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

And it's kind of.

If I get a DUI, somebody's going to bring it up.

And is there any like lines that are drawn, boundaries you don't cross?

That's kind of I think kids, kids are just off limits.

Like you just don't.

Yeah.

It never sits well.

You've been pretty open about what's your relationship with your kids.

What, what happened?

Well, I don't like to get into it too much just because she doesn't like to be talked about in a public.

manner.

But when we went through our divorce,

there was a lot of manipulation going on on one side.

There was never a bad relationship between me and my daughter.

And she chose to go live with her dad.

Now, what people don't know is my other two kids chose to live with me eventually and never, and they don't have a relationship with their dad.

One of them's here.

One of them's here.

Yeah.

She hasn't had a relationship with him in five years.

Wow.

And what is, I mean, like, what?

It's a terrible situation.

And to like, you know, I feel bad for him, just like I feel bad for myself in this sense.

Like, it's not a situation that you, anybody wants to be in, but it's a very, it happens a lot.

100%.

So, so like, and we are watching it from like our, like, Nellie and I are, you know, we're new parents.

Yeah.

You know, obviously we're lucky enough to make our relationship work and we work very hard on that.

And I think there's a lot of people who watch a show like this and they'll see the drama unfold with you and your family and your kids.

And I think there's just a level of like, how could you let this happen?

Like, why wouldn't you?

Oh, I did.

some kind of relationship with your kids.

You know, it's just like, I would do, I would never let you.

Don't marry a narcissist.

Okay.

Don't marry a narcissist.

That's all I can say.

That's my advice to people is that parental alienation is a thing.

It is a big thing.

When

people get divorced, sometimes there is one parent that just, they hate you more than they love your kids.

They hate you more than they love their kids.

So basically, they trash talk the other parent and say horrible things, horrible things that aren't even true.

And that kid will take his side.

Yeah.

And that's kind of what happened.

And he tried to do that with all the kids.

And the other two kids went, I ain't putting up with this anymore.

And is there a relationship between the kids,

between the kids?

Yes, yes.

So Sophie is with me today because she's going to go see her sister in L.A.

And mind you,

I saw Sydney.

Like she came to the house not too long ago and we hugged and we talked.

And it's not like she hates me.

It's not that situation.

We're just not super close.

Okay.

When did you realize that Simon was a narcissist?

When I met him, I don't know.

He was always bad.

He was, it was always a struggle, really.

It was always a struggle.

I mean, because like nowadays, everyone's just kind of calling everyone a narcissist.

Yeah.

And it almost like has lost its meaning.

But like, what do you mean?

Could you like peel back i think i think you could you know watch the show and see like it was a lot of controlling a lot of talking down a lot of shaming just things like that that it was just horrible to be around like my self-esteem was so low um you know there's like scenes on the show like where he's like you're gonna dress that you're dressed like that you're a mom like what are you thinking like all i had was skirt on like it was it's like just and it got really bad after we separated And that's when he worked overtime with the kids and tried so hard.

Now, me and Spencer are super close.

We talk every single day.

He's out of the house.

He went to college.

He's got his first big boy job.

He's about 45 minutes away.

Me and Sophia went to dinner with him last night.

Sophia still lives at home.

We're super close, obviously.

You see her on the show.

And it's.

a horrible situation that I have gone through.

And that's one of the reasons why I chose to go through therapy, because I've never dealt with it.

Like, you know, I grew up in that time where, you know, sweep it under the rug, you know, it's no big deal.

Life moves on.

Yeah.

So

having that pain inside of me sucks.

It like sucks.

And would I do anything to have her back in my life?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But I take what I can get, you know, and I cherish those moments that I do have with her.

I think, unfortunately, a lot of women have been in that position before.

How did you get the confidence to leave?

It wasn't because I was financially set because of the show, because I had just started the show and I just couldn't take it anymore.

I think I was just pushed to my

end.

I was experiencing things I've never experienced before.

Like I'm getting paid to go to lunch with friends from the show

TV show and things like that.

And I just, it just got so bad.

The last season that we were, we filmed together, we went into it knowing that we were going to get divorced.

Wow.

And we weren't going to make it public.

And then it was to the very end where I asked for the divorce in the limousine.

Yeah.

Because he was berating me the entire like

at the house getting ready before the cameras were there, what I can do, what I can't do, what I can say, what I can't say.

And then he was said something in the car to me about not spending time with the kids.

Well, it's because I'm filming a show at the moment and it doesn't take up that much of my time, but he just was always like those digs constantly.

And I just, I can't do this anymore.

How did he feel about you making that public?

The way you

not great.

Did he make you pay for it?

Yeah.

Try to make you pay for it.

Yeah, he made me pay for it.

And basically, we stuck it out not much longer.

And then I went and got an apartment.

Went and got an apartment.

I borrowed $1,000 from my mom.

I didn't even have any money.

I started selling my clothes on eBay to make rent.

And it was like a two-bedroom apartment with three kids on the third floor, no elevator.

So, this is after you were a housewife, though.

This was after I was a housewife.

So, this was like after season

three?

No, no, no.

I came in on three.

This is my second or third season in, I think.

I can't remember how many seasons he was on.

I don't know if he was on two or three, but the last season he was on with me, that's when I moved out.

And I've never gotten a cent from him.

I've never,

nothing.

No, really?

Nothing.

Wow.

So was it a messy divorce or was it kind of just it was dirty.

It was dirty.

He had somebody in the press that he was talking to from the National Inquirer.

Oh my God.

And they were constantly putting stories out.

They labeled me as monster mom and would have them show up at, you know, just like when we went to court and stuff.

It was.

Do you think that's why the Katie stuff triggers you so bad?

What part of Katie triggers me?

So like talking to the

outlets and I think at the time, like, you'll see as we go on, I do soften up with her.

And

so, here's the thing: Emily and her went back and forth.

Emily talked about her kid, she talked about her, you know, they went back and forth.

Then, the thing was Shannon.

Shannon, she recorded Shannon.

Shannon's recorded so many people.

She's recorded so many people.

So, to me, that's a wash.

Okay.

Okay.

She contacts a blogger that was going after me, spreading lies, saying I ran Reality Blurb.

If anybody

follows me.

If anybody follows Reality Blurb, they're so mean to me.

They're so mean.

And they just constantly write the nastiest shit about me.

And I'm like, what?

I wonder if it is an insider.

I don't know.

They should put a stop to anonymous.

I mean, the fact that they cite them in the shows is...

I think it needs to stop.

Yeah.

I think what's happening now is the bloggers are trying to make bigger deals out of things or to out people that they've talked to them.

And then what happens then is like, you know, it becomes part of the show.

And then it gets dirty and messy.

And I think at this point, like, it needs to stop.

It really needs to stop.

It shouldn't be,

or

if nothing else, it shouldn't be anonymous.

It should like.

What do you mean, anonymous?

What part's anonymous?

Well, just like these, all these accounts, like a lot of them are like anonymous accounts, at least.

That are talking about housewives.

Yeah, like reality.

The blogger accounts.

You know, some of them people know who they are.

Oh, you mean who runs them?

Yeah, oh, I got it.

Okay, they don't, they're not.

Like Queens of Bravo, which they're very nice, but

like reality blurbs, but now there's nothing you to me.

They can say whatever they want, not like

no accountability.

They can just run their mouth and say some of the nastiest things, or they can just put out rumors.

Yeah, but isn't that what social media is all about?

Like that's what people, that's what people don't show their face.

Like the people that are the meanest to me will be like a picture of a dog, and then it'll be like, I love

I love Jesus in my life.

And I'm like, mom of three girls.

It's like perfect.

Only sending love.

Yes.

Yes.

That's who it is.

And it's like, is there a storyline that about me that still hurts you?

Storyline that really hurts me.

Like looking back, anything that you're still like, that was like uncalled for.

I mean, there's a lot of them that are uncalled for.

Here's the thing with me.

I move forward.

Yeah.

I don't dwell on the past.

Like, and if it's a lie lie about me, like when Vicki and Gretchen and all them brought out that lie about my husband being gay and all this stuff, like at the moment, that hurt me because talk about me.

Like, you want to make up rumors about my husband?

Like, that pisses me off.

And I want to protect him.

And he just said to me, he's like, okay, let it go.

Who cares?

Like, they're saying I'm gay.

They're not saying like I'm a pedophile or something.

Like, this is ridiculous.

Yeah.

And I'm like, okay, I know, but it's annoying.

It's annoying when lies.

I can't stand for just blatant lies when people people just go on there and lie.

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We haven't really seen Eddie this season.

Is he?

I know he filmed.

I'm like, hello, where's Eddie?

I know we filmed a lot.

So I don't, I don't.

How'd you meet Eddie?

We met through a mutual friend, and it was funny because we were filming, and it was when me, it was my last season with Simon.

And I was looking for a house to move out of.

We were going to short sell our house.

I was going to move out.

I am so shocked that they have never played a flashback of this ever.

So

bad situation with me and Simon.

So my friend Marcos, who was in our wedding,

he's like, I have a buddy that actually lives in your gated community and he's a single guy and he bought this house as an investment.

And now the market took a shit and he just wants to rent it out.

And I go, okay, he's all, he'll let you film in his house.

So we go in.

There's cameras.

It's actually the house I live in right now.

Oh, wow.

So Eddie opens the door and I literally saw like fireworks, butterfly, all those things that you hear about about in the movies.

He was shirtless in my head.

He had a shirt on.

I mean, all these things.

Yeah, yeah.

When was it?

And I was just like this.

I was like,

retaught.

And yeah.

And then Marcos is like, there's a camera behind you.

And I'm like, oh, hi.

And then I never, I don't think I saw him again.

He just opened the door, let us in.

And then that was it.

I am shocked.

Now they're going to show it.

Now, shocked.

They've never.

shown that.

So he sent me a, he didn't know anything about me.

He thought that

he thought desperate housewives, somebody from desperate housewives.

He thought he was getting Eva Longoria or something, right?

He got me.

He got Tamra Barney.

And so he sent me a message on, I don't know, I think it was maybe Facebook or MySpace or something like that.

He's like, will you be my top friend?

Yeah.

And he's like, he's like, hey, it was really great meeting you, you know?

And, and I'm like, oh my God.

Like, so I sent Marcos a message.

I go, your friend Eddie, he's like sending me messages, like asking me out on a date.

Does he not know?

Like, he's like he knows nothing about you

so yeah so then um I saw him again I kept like running into him and so we went to a fitness party like over the holidays in December and he was at the same party at the same table at Mastros and I'm like okay this is weird and then after I left Simon I'm like Marco's I'm like hey you know whole Let's go.

Let's go.

Game on.

And then I never, ever dated anybody else.

how long you guys been together now uh we 15 years what's the secret to your relationship i think you know what he's you know we we met each other definitely at a different like older in life so i mean there's a lot of stress raising kids and that kind of stuff so i feel like we never had that kind of stress and you guys probably know like yeah and um

he's just like my best friend and we have so much fun together and we do a lot of things together and you know we'll argue but we don't fight a lot we are just not that type that fight and when we do do, we'll probably, I always say we have like one or two big fights.

What does he make of you being a housewife and like some all the drama that you are a part of?

Well, Eddie is like such like a Zen guy.

Like he doesn't let anything really get to him.

And he struggled at the very beginning because it wasn't his thing.

He doesn't want to be famous.

He doesn't care about camera time.

You don't see him doing confessionals.

He didn't.

He's not putting a knee brace on to.

No, he's not like on his jean jacket with paint sweats on it.

Like, no, he doesn't.

He's like, this is your thing, babe.

You do your thing.

Like, you tell me where you want me and I'll go to a party and I'm cool with that.

But he, like, that whole scene last year at dinner with Ryan and Jen and all that, like, it took a lot for him to even go there because he can't stand the guy.

He's like, the guy's the douche.

He seems like a criminal.

He looks like a criminal.

You said it, not me.

Allegedly.

Allegedly.

Allegedly.

So he didn't want to.

Well, well he doesn't allegedly look like one yeah i guess you can you can confidently say that

his opinion is that he looks he like he could be he's coated i think the the wearing the hoodies with suit jackets is criminal in itself the veneers are criminal

that's a crime

that is a crime he should be arrested oh my god i'm dying right now um yeah so he didn't like he we had a talk before going in and he's like listen you know this guy's been going after me on social media like and Eddie's done nothing to him at this point.

And do you think that's him like

trying to create his, like, create his own storyline and drama to like just be a part of the show?

I think so.

And I think it also has a little bit to do with

I called him out.

So I called him out of things that he's done.

So, um, and people want to go after Eddie.

Like, most people love it.

Everybody loves Eddie.

But like, if there's like Gretchen or somebody that doesn't like me on the cast, they're like, oh, I'm going to go after Eddie because she went after my boyfriend.

I'm like, I'm not going after anybody.

I'm just like exposing the obvious.

Gretchen came on a TV show and talked about

her man's penis.

Oh, that's very Christian-like of her.

Is that before or after she

started doing her Bible scriptures?

She's kind of going after Slade.

I know, right?

I mean,

I could have lived without hearing about Slade's penis.

As could I, honestly.

Can you explain to our audience your history with Gretchen and why, like, your reaction to her returning?

Yeah, I mean, she came in i think i don't know uh season five

somewhere i think i had already been on one season she came on and um you know we didn't always like not hit it off i just thought it was like weird like she's like this young cute girl and she's got this old boyfriend and you know i thought oh god that's when i'm like hold on to your daddy's girls here comes gretchen right yeah i don't oh that's right

But you don't look old.

You don't look old.

But this was like, you guys, you're not that far apart.

No.

This was like 30-something years.

It's like crazy.

He was like all gray with a gray beard.

It was like Santa Claus.

Yeah.

You know, rest in peace, but

probably.

And so we just kind of poked, we all kind of just kind of poked fun of her.

And she was just so easy to poke fun of because she's not the brightest girl in the world and just does stuff.

Do you call her stupid?

Yeah.

And she's like,

like always so giggly and all, I don't know.

She just, she just pissed you off.

She just got into my skin.

And then me and Gina, I think it was me and Gina and Vicki walk into, this is when she started filming.

We walked into a bar.

Oh, the St.

Regis, I think it was.

And she's sitting on this guy's lap.

And her, there's just no engagement ring on.

And we talk about this at the reunion years ago.

And

we're like, hey, what's going on?

Oh, he's just a friend.

Like, and all of a sudden there's like this distance.

Where's your engagement ring?

Oh, it's too big.

It's in my purse.

I'm like, okay.

So there's like started to be like all these inconsistencies in her stories and lies and all this stuff.

And, you know, it's like, and then the boyfriend that she was, she had this older boyfriend, I guess she was engaged to.

And then it came out that she actually had a young boyfriend as well.

Oh.

So then that all got brought up.

And then, so she got mad because I exposed that.

But again, if you're gay.

I'm the messenger, man.

I'm the messenger.

So that's where, and then I think a year or two later, she starts dating Slade.

And we're like, okay, well, we just, everybody's lost respect for you now.

Yeah.

And then because were her and Joe friends?

They were.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She, Joe told me recently they used to double date.

Wow.

So Gretchen and somebody else, I don't know who the guy was.

And then next thing she knew is that he was seeing Gretchen.

Is there a lot of overlapping in the OC in terms of like my world?

Okay.

No.

I don't want somebody's sloppy seconds.

So so what was your reaction to her coming back this season um did they give you a heads up they did they did they actually before i signed my contract alex took me to dinner after we had a kid now you know it's serious yeah dinner and me and alex are really close so i didn't think anything i didn't think he had anything to tell me i thought he was just gonna be like you know let's just go to dinner like that wouldn't be uncommon He's like, hey, I have to tell you something.

I'm like, what?

He's like, they're bringing Gretchen back.

And I went, okay.

And I said, listen, whatever you guys think is good for the show.

Do I like her?

No.

She has spent the last 12 years attacking me.

Like when she left the show, when she was fired from the show, I like didn't look back.

I just went forward.

I didn't think about her.

She wasn't in my mind.

Like, move forward, but it she could not stop.

Like when I got fired, she had a party.

Like she did press about me constantly.

Anytime she was on a podcast or on a red carpet, she talked about me it's throwing a party for you getting fired is is kind of a flex for you right just put so much time and energy on me and just calls every housewife new housewife to let them know that i'm evil who are you close with in the cast uh emily gina heather um i was with shannon for 10 years until last year was it last year and then um i mean i'm not close with jen by any means and I'm, and Gretchen, I could, I'd rather deep throat a cactus than be her friend.

Slide down a cheese grater naked.

Right.

Sorry, Sophia.

Wow.

Where do things stand with you and Shannon?

You know what?

You'll see me try really hard to move on with Shannon.

And

she's just, she's whole, this woman can hold a grudge like no other.

And she's just going to hold on to it.

And the funny thing is, is like, I was nothing but a great friend to her, a great friend.

And after,

well so what happened was what a lot of people don't know is off season between her dui you know that season um i was shooting traders so the day that i was going to the airport i get the phone call from her that

she had been arrested about the dui and all that stuff and it had happened two days prior and i was on the phone with her the day before and she never said a word about it we were on a business call and she was very down And I called her back and I said, are you okay?

And she's like, yeah, I'm fine.

And I don't think she thought it was going to come out.

And then I'm on the podcast and I get a text message from Heather DeBrow.

And she's like, sends me the article that Shannon was arrested.

I'm like, holy shit.

And then Shannon texts me and said, can you call me?

And I said, I'm on the pod.

I'll call you afterwards.

So I called her and I just said, I, I'm so sorry.

We were crying on the phone.

I said, this has got to be devastating.

I said, but the good thing is, Shannon, is as your friend, you have a problem.

And this is a wake-up call.

Nobody was hurt.

At this time, I didn't know that she was injured.

Like she had broken her arm and sliced her face open and hurt her leg.

I had no idea.

I thought she just hit a house and took off.

And so I had that conversation with her and she took it well, I thought.

And then I flew to Scotland and then I didn't have a phone for however long I was gone.

And when I got back,

I had heard from a mutual friend, Shannon's living with you.

How dare her say, how dare Tamara Tamara say that I'm an alcoholic?

I'm not the alcoholic.

Gina's an alcoholic.

Taylor Armstrong's alcoholic.

And she named off all these people and started doing the blame game.

And I'm like, that's weird.

Cause she was really like sweet about it.

Then, you know, I didn't say anything to her.

And we went to BravoCon and she was on the red carpet saying how, you know, I've been there for her and all these things.

And then I get a phone call from another person.

And he's like, Shannon's saying horrible shit about you.

Horrible.

I'm like, what?

Why?

Just like, who the hell does Tamara think she is?

She thinks she's like the star of this show.

And I'm so sick of her shit.

And I'm like, all I've been is there for her.

So then I'm like, you know what?

Game on.

I'm done with this.

She was exhausting to be friends with.

It was that friend, like she would call you and call you and call you.

And I'd be like, I'm on the podcast or I'm at dinner.

You need to call me immediately.

And I'd be like, I would walk out of dinners.

Like my kids, my husband would be like, mom, please don't take her call.

Please.

And what would she say on the phone?

Would it be like, oh, it was always something.

She's kind of venting.

She's just, she's,

she's just exhausting.

I mean,

it'd be calls where she was drinking and it'd be like, oh my God, I can't find my phone.

I think the Uber driver is kidnapping me.

I'm like, you're on your phone.

Like just stuff like that.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

David's wife signed my support check.

I I said, I don't give a shit if Michael Jackson signed your support check.

You're getting one.

I never got that.

You know, just stupid things.

Like really stupid things.

So I'm like, oh my God.

Or it was about John.

Or it was just always, her life was always in shambles, always, always in shambles.

Was there any part of you that had like a soft spot?

Like when the Alexis of it all came into it last year, was there any part of you that was

too much?

Absolutely.

So when Alexis was, and that's kind of like when things got really bad, because people are like, oh my God, she's ditching Shannon for Alexis.

That's not the case at all, whatsoever.

So Alexis was in negotiations before she even started dating John.

Her and John met at the quiet woman out.

Did John figure it out?

Because he seems like a housewife chaser.

See, I don't see John like that.

I think what people don't understand is John was a single dad that raised all his kids by himself.

John is like a really nice guy.

You like John?

I like John.

I do.

And Shannon has a MO of when she's done with somebody, she wants to destroy their image.

And she tries to do that to me.

Tara is horrible.

I had to walk on Age.

I'm like, horrible.

Walk on Agel.

What the hell did I do to you?

Like, I'm the easiest friend.

I don't ask for anything.

I hardly rely on friends for like emotional support.

I usually go to my husband.

Like, why?

So she got cast on the show.

She started dating John.

I was defending because there was rumors and I was defending Alexis.

I'm like, she's not dating him.

All they did was take a picture together.

Everybody needs to chill the hell out.

And then Alexis calls me and goes, there's something I got to tell you.

And I'm like, what?

She goes, I am kind of dating John now.

I go, oh my God, what?

She's like, we didn't expect it.

Like, we just ran into each other.

I met him.

I didn't know him prior to that.

Then we exchanged phone numbers.

Then we just started talking.

And are they still together?

They're getting married in October.

Are you you going to the wedding yeah yeah they're they are so in love and so happy he's a totally different guy you know he was single for a long time he never remarried after his first wife he raised the kids never got remarried and now it's like he's been with alexis like two years and they're getting married

and do you feel like uh do you feel like shannon from your point of view is starting to get her life in order i don't know i mean i hope so i don't spend much time with shannon okay so i can't honestly answer that question.

Last season, we had a ton of empathy for Shannon.

And I remember.

Everybody did.

Yeah.

She's the only person I know that can be accused of drinking too much for 10 years, drive her car into a house, try to take off and have a physical altercation with her boyfriend and get praised.

Well, I don't know if we like were praising her.

It was this more like, I think we just kind of like.

felt like this was like the person who was really down bad.

And still drinking.

Well, I, you know, I haven't hung out with Shannon, so I wasn't.

But even back then, still drinking.

Okay.

I can see how that can be frustrating.

I think, yeah, I think like from our point of view, it was definitely just like, oh, this seems like someone who, you know, is kind of getting the pile on when like it seems like they really just needs friends to like just hold her account

and be friends.

I tried.

But I mean, I can see from your point of view, I, when it comes to like, I want to be there for my friends and family, but I have a line.

And if like, if you don't want to help yourself, and if that's obvious,

like I'm not going to waste my energy even feeling sorry for you if you've made it clear that you're not interested in helping yourself and if that's how you felt about Shannon.

Well, she's also had a history of not being a great friend to me.

Like when I got fired, she cut me off, ghosted me.

Oh, wow.

And so when I got back on the show, she quickly became my friend again.

How did that whole process of you getting back on the show go down?

And did you have any hard feelings or resentment that stopped you from potentially coming back?

No, but I will tell you this part.

Have you ever had like that somebody you're dating and you're so in love with them and then you get dumped and you're so heartbroken and you go through the process of mourning it and then they come back into your life and then you start thinking, what am I doing?

Why am I doing this?

Like, is this the right thing to do?

Like, I finally got over this.

Yeah, I finally got over this and here you are again.

So I kind of felt like that a little bit

but um you know i jumped right into it i was nervous and then they brought jen in which i didn't i wasn't even i wasn't even friends with her at the time when they brought her in i wouldn't say we were enemies but we hadn't we weren't we hadn't been close in a long time and she texted me and said hey can we talk um they're casting for the show and uh they reached out to me and i said yeah sure And I didn't know I was going to be back at the time.

So do they tell you why you're being put on pause?

Like, did you know?

No, you didn't.

No, I just, I was, we were actually camping.

It was off season

and my phone wasn't working.

I had no reception.

So I'd go up to the main road every, I don't know, five hours to check my phone.

And there was a bunch of missed calls from production.

And I had my production meeting set up for the following Friday when I got home.

And

so I called.

I text Alex, I go, hey, Alex, what's up?

Everything okay?

And he's like, can you call?

I go, well, I don't have great reception, but can you just text it to me?

And he's like, I think you should call.

And I went, hmm.

So I drove down the street and I called him and I was just like in shock.

He's like, the network has decided to go a different way.

And they didn't tell you why.

Just

afraid of differences.

No.

And then I just went.

So it wasn't necessarily like they thought it was like a behavioral situation or

you just

No.

So, you know, and I wasn't very happy.

I think I hung up on him.

And then when I got home, Andy kept kept calling and he's like, listen, just call me when you want to talk.

So I called and he said, listen, he said, just hold tight.

I think you'll be back.

And I said,

I know.

And I said, really?

He goes, yeah, I think you'll be back.

And so then the next season comes.

And that makes me feel like someone got you fired.

Maybe.

I don't know.

You know, it's a whole lot of people.

I never know.

I never know.

I don't know who does the firing.

I don't, is it Andy?

Is it production?

Is it the heads over there at Rob?

I don't know.

I mean, I have no control.

You don't think it was like summoning your cast saying, I won't.

I don't think anybody in the cast has that power.

No one in that.

I mean, there's no way because I've wanted people fired and they don't give a shit what I think.

Whoever you want.

And I wouldn't like, I wanted Vicki fired for a while back in the day.

Like she was like making up these lies about Eddie and having these parties and bringing Gretchen in and, you know, and all this stuff.

And I was just like, I can't deal with this.

I can't, I can't deal with lies.

That's the thing.

Like, you have something on me, bring it up.

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Have you ever lied on the show?

I lied one time to protect protect Heather.

About what?

I'll never forget.

So Shannon had called me.

Shannon and Heather were on the outs.

That's that whole season where, remember, Heather kicked her out of the house.

You can leave.

Yep.

Remember that?

Yep.

So that was that season.

And Shannon and I were pretty close.

And Shannon had called me the night before and said, David just asked me for a divorce in an email or something like that.

And I went, oh shit.

She goes, I said, are you bringing this up?

If you talk about it, it's going to be a storyline.

Is that what you want?

And she's like, I don't know what I want.

So the next day, they had Shannon come to my house and film.

But prior to that, I did a scene prior with Heather.

And we were at a restaurant in Newport filming.

And then I said to her, you know what?

I just think that you should give Shannon some grace.

I think she's going through a lot right now, or I'm paraphrasing, but something like that.

And so afterwards, we stopped filming and she goes, What's going on?

What do you know?

Tell me.

And I told her.

And she's like, oh, shit.

So somehow after I left, a bunch of girls come, continue lunch with Heather, a bunch of her friends, and I got talked about.

And Shannon comes, I run home, change my clothes, sit down.

Shannon comes in and she's giving me this horrible story that her marriage is breaking up and she's devastated and all this stuff.

And the next thing I know, David's calling her repeatedly and repeatedly.

And I said, just pick it up, see what he wants.

And I don't know if she, he texts her or she calls on the phone or what, but he's like, he went off on her.

You told Heather, how does Heather know that, that all about this?

And I'm like, oh, shit.

He should hang up.

And so I'm like, oh my God, oh my God.

I had my phone in like next to me.

And I remember texting Heather.

I go, what the fuck, Heather?

David just called Shannon and I stuck my phone in the couch and Shannon goes, did you tell Heather?

And I go, no,

no,

no,

no,

me, whatever.

I mean, I should have just said yes.

I should have said yes.

But I was, I just like panicked.

Yeah.

So obviously, Jen, you and Jen.

I want to get into you and Jen.

Is your lack of friendship based off of just your comments about Ryan?

Or is there more to it?

Well, at this point, okay, so let me take it back pretty far.

And it kind of crosses over to this season because everyone's like, there's a fatty picture.

Tamara thinks you're obsessed with her.

Like all this stuff.

Okay, so I'll take it back.

So Jen

started coming to my gym, like, I don't know.

2019 maybe.

And she wanted to do a fitness competition.

And, you know, she wanted to open up a gym, a yoga studio.

And so I, I didn't know her.

I didn't know her at all.

And

some of the people in my studio, they're like, be careful of her.

She's obsessed with getting on the housewives.

I go, what do you mean?

She's so sweet.

She's, she fosters animals and adopts kids.

Like, she's the sweetest girl ever.

Cause she, like, her like innocent game is strong.

It is strong.

So

she, yeah.

I mean, cause I have nothing, but honestly, like, I, oh, yeah, it's strong.

I think think you'll start to see some cracks, though.

It's more like I, I,

when it comes to Jen, she, she, she seems like a person who's really been through it, right?

And she seems like she's what's she been through?

I don't know.

She's married 20-something years to a really nice guy.

Is he?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Very religious, nice.

Like, I don't know what's going on.

I haven't talked to him since they split up, but.

I don't know what's going on now with them.

But anyways,

really good dad.

Okay.

Well, her new man, Ryan, he just, he just seems like maybe the biggest loser ever.

Well, I think she could do better.

Yeah.

And

so like, I just kind of feel bad that she's with this guy.

And so, yeah, she, she seems like she doesn't know better.

Like she can't, you know.

Or is it an act?

I don't know.

You know.

I've never met her.

I don't know.

I mean, if she's in, in love with him and she thinks that's what's great for her and her kids, then have at it.

But so there was, so she was coming to the gym and she was a totally different than she does now, totally different.

And when I got fired, then she started reaching out to Bronwyn.

Totally?

No, Bronwyn on our show way back when.

So Bronwyn was still on the show and I wasn't.

And then prior to that, I find out like she was, she was like going to my hair girl.

She was going to my plastic surgeon.

She's like, all these, I'm like, this is weird.

Then she had like my hair extensions put in her head.

And I'm like, what the fuck?

And she's not the one that told me originally.

It was somebody else that told me.

You were influencing me.

So I was, yeah, I go, and I, and I even said, and I don't even, I don't know if it got cut or what, I don't know if I should be like, you know, like, wow, that's really cool.

Flattered?

Flattered.

Yeah.

Or is this weird?

Well, it's interesting because like the whole Katie of it all and like,

you know, on the Valley, I don't know if you watch that at all.

Janet.

Like, there's this like, you know, some of these shows like OC

have been on for so long, right?

And now you start, you know, when they cast new characters, it's a valid question to kind of wonder, like, are you casting a fan?

Or like, Bozeman on Beverly Hills, she got casted, and just she seems like this badass, successful woman,

who just like had nothing.

She had like, she had accomplished everything in her life, and she was like, you know what, I'll be a housewife because it seems fun.

And I don't really know who these women are, but whatever.

I'll be aware of that.

She's one of the best.

And she's awesome.

But it does seem like a legit question in Bravo World.

Like, are you casting a fan?

And if so, like, are you like, it's, it's, it's weird.

And it would be weird.

Yeah, I found DMs from her from 2013.

From Jen?

Yeah.

Saying what?

I'm new to the area, like just like wanting to like be friends.

And I'm, I want to have like a procedure done.

And like, I'm, I heard maybe you might have had it done.

Like, just all this.

And I'm like.

Jen did say on the most recent episode that you like used her tummy tuck as inspo.

No, so what happened was, is

I had emergency surgery like 12 years ago because I have all kinds of intestinal issues.

And I had a hernia, a hiatal hernia, where my intestines grew through my skin and part of my intestines were dead.

So I was in like hospital for a week and they cut me right down the middle of my stomach.

And I lived like that with that scar and everything for a long time.

And I think it was maybe three years ago, I was having reconstructive surgery.

And I also had another hernia.

And so I told her, I go, well, your stomach's my inspo because it looks so good.

That's it.

I was giving her a a compliment.

It wasn't like I'm like, oh, okay.

Well, I want to look just like that.

That's not.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Like, I was just giving her like a compliment about it, but she takes everything into victim mode.

And Tamara's doing this and Tamra's doing, Tamara's jealous of me.

And I'm like, do you think Katie's a fan?

You know, it's weird.

I don't know that much about Katie.

Like, Gina brought her on.

It's kind of weird that you still

don't really know that much.

No, like she came in.

So you're only really like, you're only seeing her when you guys are filming.

Yeah.

Do you trust her?

Some of her stories don't add up.

And there's a, you know, I never know what's going to air, but I did sit down with her mid-season with concern.

Like somebody that's going through therapy, maybe.

Just maybe.

You might want to think about it.

Where do things sit with your autism

revelation and diagnosis?

Do you think I'm ever going to talk about that ever again?

Jesus, it was like the most innocent situation where I'm in therapy and we're talking about like all kinds of stuff, but I have like a lot of like sensory issues.

Sophia can vouch for this.

She's like,

lots of sensory issues.

I have an intrusive thoughts.

So I'm explaining all these things to her.

And my doctor goes, you know, I wouldn't be shocked if you are somewhere on the spectrum.

And I just went and, and, you know, people go, aren't we all kind of a little bit on the spectrum?

Yeah, yeah.

So I like, then we get into this deep conversation about my daughter and things that went down.

And I had the, the office is literally five minutes from my house.

And I'm like, I got to go.

I have 15 minutes before I'm on the podcast.

And I was crying.

And so when I got on the podcast, Teddy's like, what's wrong?

And I'm like, I just did this therapy session.

And she, and I said diagnose when I shouldn't have said diagnose.

I should have, I should have said nothing.

Like my therapist is like, you're very impulsive.

And I go, oh, yeah, I know.

Trust me.

I'm very impulsive.

I'm trying not to be.

Like if something, if I get information right now, my mind, like, it just starts spinning and I can't, I can't let it go.

I'm like, what am I going to do with this information?

How am I going to do it?

Who am I going to kill?

It's really bad.

I feel like we kind of watch that in like real time.

Yeah, I know.

I feel like, yeah.

So I put that out there.

And of course, I, I already was like in the worst place ever with social media.

I like somebody, I think on my cast hired bots to attack me.

And so I was getting all this hate.

Do you think someone?

I think that's a real thing, but like you.

Oh, absolutely.

It's a real thing.

They're all fake accounts that say the same thing.

And a lot of times they say it like different accounts.

They're empty accounts and they say the same thing, but maybe worded a little bit different.

Sure.

Yeah.

So then like everybody went crazy with it.

And like, oh, she's making up excuses and all this kind of stuff.

So I'm like, oh my God.

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Jumping ship a little bit back to Jen.

Where did this like second rumor of her cheating on her husband a second time?

Like, did you, are these things that like you hear from other people that you're like, I know a lot about her.

You know a lot about her.

Yeah, I know a lot.

We have, we have a lot of mutual.

So would you say they're not rumors?

They're things you know.

I would call it a rumor right now because I don't have the text messages

yet.

Okay.

Do you want to jump in here?

I think it was one of those things where she was accusing me of cheating.

So I'm like, well, let's be honest, this isn't your first time.

Okay.

And is that something that maybe we'll see more of?

I don't think so because it like, well, I think it comes up again.

Okay.

Comes up again.

So,

yeah.

Okay.

We're going to bring your daughter in here just for fun.

No, you stay here.

I am just trying to scoot over.

I don't know.

Where's she going right here?

Oh, at the table.

Yeah.

We're at the table.

Yeah, sit at the table.

Official.

Official.

While your daughter's getting settled, you obviously have a lot of critics out there and they say a lot of crazy shit.

Do you do a good job of like staying offline?

And I guess more specifically, what is a criticism you see a lot about you that you think is just the most off base or you don't understand where it comes from?

I know where they all come from.

Well, there was one today, which I actually laughed.

Somebody wrote that, it was a podcast that said that they think that me and Jen, we were swingers together.

And I just went, no, not my style.

No, interesting.

Not my circus.

No, I'm not.

So that was kind of like, that's the first time I ever heard anything like that.

I think a lot of people want to say, like, oh, her kids hate her.

That's not the case at all.

There's one daughter out of four that, you know, and it's, it's a problem.

It's not like, you know, we got into this huge fight and I don't want to talk to you anymore.

And I hate you.

It was nothing like that.

It's way deeper than that.

And there was therapy sessions and there was court things and there's a lot.

And do I think that we'll be reunited?

Yeah, I do.

I think we will.

But as of right now, you know, I'm baby, we're taking baby steps.

That's it.

But I think just that she's evil and she's mean.

And, you know, and I see people fight where they're like, what would we be talking about on this show?

Yeah.

What would the show be about if she doesn't bring up the hard, you know, conversations or call people out?

And the thing is, I feel like I'm held to a totally different standard than anybody else because Emily and Gina, they're stepping up their game big time and they're bringing out stuff.

Yeah.

And then it's like, oh, it's, it's Emily and Gina.

Will you bring up something?

Do you have any like rules, like internal rules where it's just like, if you believe it to be true or you know it's true, it's fair game.

But like, would you, would you knowingly put out a rumor?

No.

Okay.

So you, you, that, that you won't do.

I, I think this is, this is where, um, where I'll get pissed off and say things and I'll go, shit, I wish I wouldn't have said that.

Um, that whole meet and greet with Jen that I had last week's episode.

There, what you didn't see is every scene with her.

She was attacking me.

Everything.

If Katie was getting attacked, she'd be like, what about Tamra?

What about Tamra?

Like I was getting, and mind you, this was the lowest part of my life.

One week into filming or two weeks into filming, I find out about Teddy.

I am a shell of a human being at this point.

I am crying.

You will see me me basically disappear in size this season.

I am crying all the time.

I can't eat.

I'm not sleeping.

Now I got to go into scenes and be with these girls that just want to go after me.

And I don't, I don't have the fight in me.

I just don't have it.

So Jen.

would often make fun of me going to therapy.

She would just say some really low things.

Like you saw that part where she's like, you're sick, you're sick.

Well, what you didn't see is when I walked out, she was screaming, you're sick, you're sick.

And I just remember crying to the producers and I'm like, Teddy's sick.

I'm not sick.

Yeah.

Teddy's sick.

And it was just too much.

So when we had that sit-down scene, I thought she was going to be like, you know, let's make up.

And it's not how it came off.

And then when she said something about, well, you cheated or something like that.

And I'm like, and then I'm like, well, this isn't your first time.

I've known that forever.

I was never going to bring that up.

But if I get pushed, I might say something that I probably shouldn't.

And I don't, and I don't like that.

Is that why you posted while y'all were filming that you, while y'all were in New Orleans, that you were done with the show?

Did it become too much with everything?

It became too much.

It was my breaking point.

I was barely hanging on by a, like a string.

Like I was showing up.

I wasn't sleeping.

I wasn't eating.

I was just so sad.

And, you know, here I'm at the moment.

I'm like, I thought I was losing my best friend.

And I just, it was, I didn't want to film.

I just like, I don't want to do this.

And I was talking to Alex, I just can't do this anymore like how am I supposed to go in and you know do these things with these girls on the show when I have something you know really serious going on in my life yeah I think whenever you posted that in real time we talked about it and it was kind of like you know to have these like stupid fights or people trying to bring up whatever when you're at going through what you're going through I bet you were like this is not this is not what I want to do I think there's more important things in life like when somebody super close to you is that sick it's hard to take your mind off that and do this type of job.

Right.

And I was just like, I can't do this anymore.

And I just came to, and you'll see, I think it's coming up the next couple of episodes.

You'll see what happened.

And

I can't even blow it, but I just, yeah, it was, it was really, really hard.

Sophia, what's it like to have a mom be an iconic housewife?

Are you an iconic housewife?

She's an iconic house.

She's an iconic housewife.

I'm like so far removed, I think, think, from all housewives stuff.

What do your friends think about it?

Honestly, like, I

don't think they really think about it.

Like, I don't like to keep company of people that are so into housewives because it's just, I don't know what their intentions are.

But for me personally, like, I just feel like it's always been this way.

So it's hard for me to know anything else, you know?

When your mom gets crap online about being a mom and how, you know, her relationship with her kids like how do you handle that and how does that make you feel well obviously it makes me upset because they don't know what the hell they're talking about they know nothing about our life at all and i mean we're just talking about this i think one of my biggest pet peeves is people are just stupid like they don't know they don't know us it's all parasocial it's very parasocial like people think that they know her and they don't at all yeah it's a yeah i mean it's a very creepy thing to have the internet feel like they know your life better than where you have like two strangers online having a deep conversation and a debate about you yeah it's a weird

it's a weird bizarre bizarre thing do you think uh with next gen

in new york being a thing would would that be anything that you would ever consider if they came to la or orange county and and gave you possibly possibly i mean i we're in talks possibly moving to new york me oh moving to new york so okay yeah so

she wants to go to music school, or you can even talk about it.

I don't have to talk for you.

And that's, that's one of the choices.

She's doing general ed right now, just a community, and then she was going to transfer

to a music school.

Yeah, in New York.

Good plan.

Wow.

I think so.

And the fact that she has a cute boyfriend that wants to move to New York, too.

Oh, that helps, of course.

Yeah, but I mean, we've been talking about moving to New York before that.

And I mean, that's just the cherry on top.

It'd be awesome, you know, to bring him and have someone there that I know and trust and care about.

Did you watch Next Gen?

This no, I haven't.

She doesn't even watch Housewives.

I don't watch TV.

I show her her clips.

Like, she was on it last week, and then she's on it a little bit this week.

Um, and she talks about her, was it Spotify or what is it on?

So she's got a, she gets like a, how many do you get?

A thousand?

I had a thousand monthly listeners.

There you go.

Yeah.

She even got an email saying that

some club in Germany was playing one of her songs.

Really?

Yeah, I was looking at the stats because Spotify shows artists all the stats of where they're popular, and one of my songs just made it in Germany.

That's incredible.

I don't even know how that happened.

Okay.

World tour.

I know you guys have to get going, but I'd love to hear since your mom does get so much shit online, especially around parenting.

What is something about your mom specifically?

Well, whatever it is you want to say about your mom, maybe it's something about parenting that people

would be surprised to hear or something that you want people to know about your mom.

You know what?

I'll look into the camera for this.

This is serious.

Okay.

My mom is genuinely one of the most caring, hardworking women I know.

People, person.

You're the most hardworking person I know.

And I know you care so much, especially about your family.

And like, I feel it every day.

Like, I know you love me and I love you so much.

And you just, people don't see that.

Like, I don't know.

It's, I guess it's hard because you only see a little blip through TV and whatever.

And you can't really know a person through that.

But yeah, you, I love you and you're very caring and you work hard.

Well, thanks for saying that.

Yeah, but we don't see that.

I don't, I mean, you don't think

like, I don't,

TV is not really something we talk about.

Like, we're not like, oh, my mom's on TV.

Like, we're, we're just very, like, down to earth.

We're mostly in sweats and t-shirts.

And I'm like, you ready to go to Target?

Let's go to Target.

Like, our like, you don't, you will rarely see me like walking red carpets most of the stuff i do is driven by bravo like i was just in boston for that like it's just i'm very low-key eddie too and we go to big bear half we live in big bear half the time and that's there's no more a place in the world that's more relaxed than big bear and uh it's just a we live a very simple life but i

working my ass off and i'm lucky like you guys with the podcast that you can i can do mine wherever i have a studio set up in big bear i have one in orange county I do that pretty much five days a week.

Five days a week.

And then my CBD business, which I brought you some products to, and THC business.

And yeah.

Is that making a lot of money?

Am I making a lot of money?

Is that making you a lot of money?

It's a multi-million dollar company.

Good for you.

Yeah.

It's, it's, um,

we'll probably sell it eventually,

probably in the next year or so, and, and you won't see me anymore.

Good for you.

But yeah, it's doing well.

And the podcast is doing well as well.

So

Teddy,

she announced recently, that's why I only talk about things that she announces, but they stopped her treatment because she was getting too ill.

So

she was just having all kinds of problems and in bed and not being able to do anything.

And it wasn't really, you know, a great quality of life.

So she, they decided to take her off treatment for a while so she can get her strength back.

And it's just, I just love it when I see her on social media.

Like this week, she's been on social media again and she's walking and she's outside of the house and she looks amazing.

And I just like,

like I DM'd her on one of her pictures.

I go, I just love to see you laugh.

And she goes, I love to see me laugh too.

So it's been

very, very difficult, very difficult.

Well, we love her and give her our best.

I will.

I love her.

We know she's fighting hard.

Yeah, she's fighting the fight.

Well, I know you got to go, but this has been been fun.

It's been great getting a lot of fun.

It's been great.

Yeah.

So great.

Thank you so much for being here.

Anytime.

Please, please.

Well, and just know that going forward when we watch some of these scenes, we will try to take into context.

Nick, I told you when I, when I met Tamara at Crystal's party, I was like, she's such a professional.

I sat down and I was like, I'm like, we might have said something.

And you're like, that's who gives a fuck?

Like, it's part of the job.

Yeah, I don't care.

I wish they were all like you.

Because I know Shannon.

I know I'm going to get a text from Shannon.

She's going to be like, just disappointed, Nick, that you had Tamara on.

But that's so silly.

Like, that's not, you can't be like that in this.

I wish they were all like you.

No, I just don't care.

Like, I'll let things roll off my back.

You're a professional.

Tamara, it's been a pleasure.

Thanks for taking the time.

Absolutely.

Any time for you.

Good luck the rest of the way.

Please let our audience know where they can find you and follow you.

Tamara Judge.

I'm Tamara Judge across the board and two T's in a pod.

All right.

Tamara Judge.

Pop off.

Thank you.

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