E951 Ask Nick - He Cheated With My BFF

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How's it going?

Hi, my name's Rachel.

I'm 28 years old, and I'm wondering how I move on from someone that I thought I saw my life with, and I thought they claimed the same.

Tell me what happened.

So we had been dating for about four years.

So it was pretty serious, obviously.

How old were they?

Same age, 28.

And I mean, we did break up in end of November last year.

Okay.

Got back together this year.

I want to say February is when we like really officially got back together.

What caused the breakup in November?

He claimed he needed to learn how to be alone and that we were just having the same arguments over and over again.

Fast forward February, we get back together.

We were feeling a little bit better about the the situation on both parts.

And then April found out he had been cheating on me for months with a friend of mine.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Oh.

Who's the friend?

I mean, I don't need their name, but like, are we talking like best friend, casual friend?

Like a little bit of both.

Like we had been on like vacations together.

Like we would get drinks together.

I've known her for probably like three years now.

So.

like not super, super close, but definitely in my circle of friends.

How'd you find out?

She texted me.

Okay.

What

and said what?

Well, so I think I basically got like a hey girly text and she just kind of said, hey, so I'm sure you know the situation.

I'd love, you know, to talk if that's something you want to do.

And I was like, well, situation.

And then, and then, and how did she tell you?

So was this, did, did this happen in your little breakup that you had and they hooked up or you got back together?

So they started their whole thing two months before we broke up the first time.

Okay.

And it continued all the way until right before we got back together again, basically.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then you found out at what point?

A couple months after we had been back together.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so it sounded like the tone in which that she sent that message, yeah, did she, she assumed that you knew?

So she had texted him in February when she found out we were getting back together, basically telling him, you tell her or I will.

And so he never did.

And then what happened?

Well, then I actually tried calling him a lot of times.

He was answering my texts right up until I said, call me right now or never call me again.

And

sorry.

And then he just stopped answering my texts once I found out or once he found out that I knew.

He didn't answer my phone calls.

So I went over to her house and she explained everything to me.

Have you spoken to him since you found out?

Yes.

So he did come over the next night, which I basically had to beg him to do.

He like had no interest in even having a conversation.

At this point, he's your boyfriend.

Okay.

Unfortunately.

No, he did come over.

It wasn't really much of a conversation.

It was mostly me speaking at him and him going, I don't know.

I'm sorry.

I don't know.

Okay.

When was this?

This all happened about a month ago now.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it's still pretty raw.

I would like to think so, but like, it almost feels like I'm kind of numb about the situation now.

Like it's just kind of like pretending it never happened in a sense.

Okay.

Well, when you say you'd like to think so, what do you mean by that?

Well, like, because it does seem like it's too easy for me to get out of something like that and feel relatively okay right now without it kind of coming back around.

Say more.

Tell me.

I don't.

Well, like, it just, it's like, I feel like I've, I've had my week of crying and then it just kind of feels like nothing now.

Okay.

Well, and why do you feel like that's, why is that a bad thing for you?

I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing if this is truly me being over it, but that's the thing is I feel like it probably isn't me truly being over it.

I feel like this is kind of like a patch.

So what are, what are you feeling?

I mean, anger for sure.

It's starting to get to the point too where I'm like kind of still remembering things about like our relationship and stuff.

It's like it does feel like that's kind of creeping its way back in.

What are you remembering?

Just like random things.

Like I'll be watching a random TV show or like random thoughts of us traveling and stuff.

Rewind back to when you first broke up and he told you he needed to learn how to be alone, which obviously you now know was just a complete lie.

And when you told me that before you told me about the cheating,

still sounded like a lie.

Because the way he, the way he said it, he's just like, no, I love you.

You're great.

Like, nothing's wrong with you.

I just need to learn how to be alone.

So, like, you know, it's a me problem.

It's not you.

You know, it's like,

no one in the history of mankind, I don't think everyone's been like, oh, yeah, no, for sure.

And the question is, like, what made him feel like he needs to be alone?

Like, what he needed was, for whatever reason, we know the reason now, was to be free from you to do something, you know, and that something was,

you know, continue that relationship with your friend, guilt-free, I suppose, just out of curiosity, not that it's relative to your moving on or healing.

What ended that relationship?

Between them.

Yeah.

Honestly, I have no idea.

You didn't ask her?

No, I don't think I did, actually.

I think she just said, we stopped talking.

Yeah.

I'm assuming you're not friends with her anymore.

No, definitely not.

I'm just out of curiosity, what was her, yeah, was she, was she hoping for forgiveness or did she kind of like, what was the reason for?

She knew there was, well, she said she just felt like I had, like I should know.

That's like the right thing.

But to be honest, I feel like it was more of a, from her perspective, well, if I can't have them, then neither can you kind of thing.

Maybe.

But aren't you glad you know?

Yeah, definitely.

But I feel like it could have happened.

Certainly.

Sure, yeah.

And I agree with you.

I don't think she gets any like moral brownie points or anything like that.

And you're probably right to some degree that we don't really know why, you know, what the reason, whether it's real guilt or she convinced herself that you needed to know, but maybe wanted to sabotage the relationship.

Probably true.

Okay, so back to like your processing.

You said your feelings, you know, you're starting to ruminate about, you know, you're basically romanticizing memories and things about the relationship.

yeah yeah so what do you do when that happens distract myself

literally snap out of it okay are you yeah other than talking to me right now are you talking with anyone about it are you yes definitely therapy your friends what both both okay yeah and is that helpful i feel like i've exhausted my friends though so probably therapist has been but listen honestly like you're you're you know your your first um question was like i'm having a hard time moving on from the person i thought I was going to essentially spend the rest of my life with.

It's only been a month.

You know, it is, it is pretty raw.

Again, this is a four-year relationship, a big chunk of your adult life.

And so these

thoughts of kind of going back and missing moments.

I think what's important right now is when you do ruminate and you do think about trips you took or whatever, you recognize that you are missing moments, not him.

And I'm sure, yeah, listen, obviously you dated him for four years.

You fell in love with his good attributes.

Human beings are obviously complicated people with good qualities and bad qualities and demons and trauma and things they all have to work through.

And sometimes it manifests itself in things that are very hurtful to us, you know, and that's something he needs to work on.

But yeah, it's like,

you know, I'm sure you have all this anger, you know.

But like, you know, he's not a monster.

And I'm not saying that in any way to defend him.

But I, you know, I just don't know if you're having these kind of complicated feelings feeling these feelings of love for a person who did what he did and then hurting you.

And then that can that can bring in a lot of complicated thoughts and feelings about, what does that say about me?

And I can't believe I fell for someone like him and all those kind of rabbit hole thoughts and feelings.

And so I guess that just kind of like leads me to like,

also just asking like, how, like, if you have any tips or anything, just like how to move on like with myself and not feel like, well, this one deceived me.

Who knows if the next one will too?

Like, yeah, I mean, listen, there's no guarantees in life, unfortunately.

Yeah.

You know, again, it's still raw.

So you're not that, you know, it's not, you know, you've heard probably similar calls of people having a hard time moving on and they're six months, 12 months, sometimes a year and a half out from.

the relationship ending and they're still still having a hard time.

And that's kind of, that's a different conversation that, you know, that we're going to have.

I mean, I think right now you almost have to be a little patient with the pain that you're feeling in a way.

It kind of sounds like you're doing a pretty decent job.

I'm hoping that your, this kind of initial feeling of you claiming to be over it, right, is this more or less a recognition of, well, I don't want to be with someone who did that to me, you know, and regardless of how I feel and how sad I am and disappointed that, you know, the future I thought I would have is no longer in existence.

You know, you recognize that, right?

And it's, it's a little bit normal what, what you're going through.

So you are, you know, partly, you're going to have to be a little patient.

It would be almost bizarre, you know, if you were to call up for some, maybe you probably wouldn't call if you were feeling this way, but if you were completely fine, you know, like a month in and you were just out there dating again, acting like nothing happened, acting like you decided to leave a relationship and you couldn't be more thrilled to be out of that relationship and you're finally a free person and you're just like so excited about this new fountain independence.

That would be almost a little bizarre at this stage.

You know, that would almost kind of sound like denial.

It would sound like you haven't allowed yourself to process certain feelings.

So much, again, like what I talk about is just like, you know, you can't control other people.

You can't control how those people make you feel.

What we can constantly work on for the rest of our adult lives is learning how to more effectively and efficiently process those feelings and relatively healthy ways so that we eliminate these darker feelings from staying around longer than they otherwise need to be, right?

I don't know if a four-year relationship where you find out that not only your boyfriend, but a very close friend of you betrayed you is something you're supposed to get over in three to four weeks, you know yeah but you're doing a pretty good job you know and i think maybe the best thing is is just you know i've i've said this before right you know my first heartbreak terrible because i i literally didn't know how to get over it and i i literally and i literally didn't think i could because i had never done it before i had no playbook it seemed impossible and so i told myself it was impossible and by telling myself it was impossible it certainly felt like it was i saw a clip of tony Robbins on Theo Vaughn's podcast randomly.

And, you know, Tony Robbins, and I'm sure you're familiar with him, kind of a motivational speaker.

And he talked about, you know,

you kind of manifest your reality.

And he did this little quick exercise where he told Theo to close his eye.

You know, he told, look around the room, told him to close his eyes and told him to look for all the things that were brown in the room, right?

You know, so he opened his eyes, looked for all the brown, closed his eyes again.

And then, and then he goes, now tell me all the things you saw that were red.

And he was like, well, you probably didn't see anything red because you were looking for brown, right?

And then he talked about how, you know, now look for red and he saw red.

And then he talked about how then sometimes, you know, we even will call the things like burgundy red or things that are beige brown because we want to be right, you know?

And so I thought that was a very kind of interesting thing to describe because it reminded me of my first heartbreak, right?

I told myself, I can't get over it.

I told myself, this is impossible.

And so I made a bad situation a hundred times worse because that was my narrative in my head, right?

And so that's just what you want to make sure that doesn't happen.

And you seem to be doing a pretty good job of not allowing that.

The important thing for you, maybe, is to allow these feelings to happen, which it seems like you are.

You know, you said you're exhausting your friends.

That's a normal thing, right?

You're getting it out.

Yeah.

And hell, it took me months, months

to realize that even I had the possibility of exhausting friends.

I wasn't that self-aware.

So, you know, progress for you.

So, yeah, I mean, you just kind of have to allow it to happen a little bit, right?

And these feelings of thinking about moments, you know, trips, you said, and it sounds like you recognize when you're doing it and then you try to think of something else, correct?

Yeah.

You know,

that's pretty good, right?

I.

I looked for things for torturing myself.

I convinced myself that, again, we were destined.

You know, I didn't want to accept the reality of the situation.

I wanted to make excuses for her.

I think right now,

you have to probably try to see the big picture, right?

Yeah.

You have to recognize that you're only 28.

You have to recognize that this is a moment in time that's temporary.

And then you kind of have to recognize that it's the unanswered prayers that sometimes we have to be grateful for.

I've had a lot of really cool moments in my life lately, you know, both professionally, personally, things like that.

And, you know, people know my story from The Bachelor, right?

There's, I was a two-time runner-up.

In those moments, you know, I thought I was going to get engaged, you know, and when I didn't, those initial moments, I felt disappointment, pain, heartbreak, sadness.

Took some time to get over.

You know, I had a hard time getting over it.

The first one felt a little bit harder than the second one because I was like I had not been familiar with that environment that I kind of went in i didn't really know how how inauthentic that environment was and that the feelings i i was feeling was a little bit more manufactured i was a little more self-aware about the second time nevertheless i still felt that pain right but i did know and that gets kind of my point i didn't finish my thought before it's just like after that first heartbreak the the one benefit is knowing that you will get over it right like so and it sounds like you kind of understand that like you're not you're not calling in and being like i don't know if i can get over this you're more worried that you're, you've told yourself you're over it.

And maybe you're not quite over it.

And that's probably, you know, so you have some self-awareness.

But I look back on those moments of being sad and being disappointed.

I mean, if any of those two people chose me, I wouldn't be sitting here today.

I mean, I, there's just no way.

Yeah.

You know, I don't think I would have ended up being with either of them, but that

would have drastically altered my life, you know, it would have been a completely different different timeline.

I'm never the bachelor.

And if I'm not the bachelor, then I, I don't get certain opportunities.

And those opportunities that ultimately led me to meeting my wife and those opportunities led me to creating this show.

You know, it's like you can feel what you're feeling now, but you just kind of tell yourself, I don't know when it's going to happen.

I don't know when I'm going to fully heal.

I don't know when I'm going to wake up and kind of not, just kind of be over it where it just, I have less and less random thoughts that pop in my head.

You know, there every day that goes by, there's not, there's less and less songs or commercials or movies or TV shows or moments that remind me of a time that I wish I still had.

Yeah.

And the less you ruminate and the more you check yourself and try to change your mindset, the sooner that will happen.

You know, and then in the meantime, you just have to be a little patient and understand that like, it's, you know, you are still

trying that, you know, that's, I talk about this in my book too, but what I'm hearing from you is like, you're the opposite of how I was when I was in a, not a similar, you know, I didn't have my, it wasn't my best friend or anything, but when I felt betrayed and I felt hurt and pain and sadness is that you are, you're doing a lot of the good things and you're just like annoyed that it's still

that that pain's still inside you.

Yeah.

And you're just like, you want it to go away.

And it's just like, and then it's just like, it's not, it's not time yet, so to speak.

You know what I'm saying?

And so there's a little bit, there's a little bit of patience I think you have to require.

That was my point is like, a part of getting over someone is replacing core memories of your life, right?

So like, this is a person you dated for four years.

And I don't know how often you hung out, if how much you played house, and, you know, but you probably hung out enough where you had certain patterns, right?

You guys created a life together, you know, where,

you know, like right now, I I don't, you know, Nally and I have our routine, you know, you had your routine with him, right?

And now, so every time you, and part of that routine just became your routine and his routine, not even just your, you know, the, the routine that you shared.

So when you do those routines that you maybe still get benefit from, I don't know, like it's going to remind you of that person.

So you kind of have to like, part of it, getting over someone is just, getting used to like a new life without them and starting new habits without them and like waking up every day, looking over, not seeing them and getting used to that, right?

And instead of going to get coffee with them, you go to get coffee with a friend or by yourself and that becomes a new pattern, right?

And right now, when you do those things and you miss that companionship, right, of having them, that's, you know, it naturally makes you think of them, right?

And it makes you think of moments that you enjoyed.

Maybe time, you know, could be something as simple as being in line at a coffee shop, people watching and laughing about some sort of inside joke.

And then you go to a coffee shop and you see someone do something that, you know, in that moment, you might have said to him, oh, that's funny, whatever.

And you know what I'm saying?

That's like those little things.

And you just need to replace those things with new memories and new people, right?

So being active helps, right?

Like that's, again,

I made it worse, you know, by isolating myself, by not going out, by pouting, by just, again, ruminating.

And I wasn't developing new friendships.

I wasn't developing new habits.

I wasn't developing new routines.

And I made it worse, right?

So the fact that, you know, just stay active, get out there.

When you're ready, start dating, you know, probably not ready yet, you know, but it's, it really just is about just creating new memories for yourself so that like it, the, the, the, the, the random thoughts pop in your head less and less.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, that's actually sounds like really good

advice and ways to kind of like move forward.

Yeah.

But, you know, right now, I, you know, it's kind of, I hate saying this, but I think you do have to let it process a little bit.

Yeah.

You know, because it's, it sucks.

And work on this with your therapist.

I'm sure you could spend a couple sessions trying to go back and revisit moments that in the past, you looked the other way and maybe something in your body didn't feel right, but you're just like, well, obviously I trust my partner.

And of course, he would never do something like that to me.

And so you just swept those red flags under the rug.

And I wouldn't spend a ton of time on that because sometimes people are just good liars.

You know, sometimes.

Yeah, I would just rather, I would just rather be the fool than become that person who's just incapable of trusting anyone because a few people lied.

You know, everyone's capable of lying.

You've lied before.

It's, you know, and why people, you know, do it, you know, there are traumas or whatever.

And again, this is, you know, it's not like, oh, well, we dated for six months and we moved really fast and yada, yada, yada.

It's just like, I don't, you know, I don't know what creeped up.

And, but, you know, you met an early age, 24, you've been dating and who knows?

Maybe he just felt like he needed to try something out or I don't know.

But I wouldn't spend a ton of time unpacking that.

But like the person who's been cheated on just wants to make sure, because I think there's a lot of times, especially if you're someone who's been cheated on more than once, I think if that's the case, it's probably safe to say there are moments where you are not listening to your instincts or your body or your gut or whatever you want to call it.

It's a combination of thinking this could never happen to you.

So you assume it would never happen to you.

And then if there is a feeling that feels off, you ignore it, dismiss it, make excuses for it, whatever.

And there's a fine line between being the person who doesn't trust anyone and questions everything versus the person who sweeps, you know, uncomfortable feelings under the rug because they just, they want to assume that can never happen to them.

Yeah, it does feel like maybe there was a bit of that going on.

Yeah.

Well, you know, for example, when he broke up you the first time, you know, like what were you doing in those, you know, from November to February?

What was your mindset about that relationship?

I mean, I was like, I was heartbroken.

I could barely get out of bed.

I was kind of like the exact opposite, I guess, of like kind of how I'm dealing with it the second time.

Yeah.

Because it just didn't feel real.

Or make, I bet it didn't make any sense to you either.

Yeah.

And so this is a man who said, oh, I just need to learn how to be alone.

And there was a part when he first said it, when he first said it, it probably felt like the best thing he could say because it wasn't like I'm fucking someone else or I don't love you.

or I find you obnoxious and I don't want to be with you.

There was hope in that statement.

There was the possibility of getting back together and it was, and he made it about him.

Anyway, it was about him, but he made it like very much something that was easy, more easy to digest.

But immediately after that initial moment, you know, your brain took over and probably thought, that doesn't make any fucking sense.

And then your ego said to your brain, shut the fuck up.

Like, no one would ever do this to us.

He loves me.

You know, he loves us.

He's, he's just, he needs to figure this out and just tell him to go get therapy and and then he will figure out that he he loves me and he loves us and we'll get back together and so you spent that time you know again in pain in bed ruminating trying to make sense of something you knew didn't make sense but you probably never even went there with that thought of he could be doing something nefarious Yeah, never had that thought.

Well, next time someone says something as stupid as I need to break up and I need to learn how to be alone.

And again, people need to learn how to be alone, but they don't, they've never broken up with, no one's ever let, let someone they love and really wants to be with and wants to make a priority and wants to be in that relationship because they, they're a little too codependent.

No, no one's done that.

You can learn how to be independent and have a little freedom in your relationship.

Like, you know, maybe he thought that you guys were moving too quickly or something, but like, just no, no one does that shit.

You know,

not with someone that they otherwise,

everything else is great.

And that's what he tried to sell you.

And I'm not saying every time someone says, I need to be alone, they're cheating on you or doing something nefarious, but it certainly means there's something more going on.

And it's not as simple as they're, they have this incredible self-awareness that they know how to, they, they need to learn how to be alone.

And they selflessly, you know, end this relationship so they can figure it out.

because it's the best thing for for everyone involved.

And that's what he tried to sell.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He definitely doesn't give self-aware.

So that probably should have been an indicator.

So yeah, so there's the lesson to learn most likely, right?

You know, is just to just be in the future, when someone says something that feels off, you have to be willing to explore it, right?

Yeah.

I don't know what you, what convers, you know, like when, when, did you talk to many of those friends?

when he first broke up with you?

Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a lot kind of less because I feel like I was just more

taking it in on myself a little bit versus like this time where it's been almost like a PSA.

Sure.

Well, next time again, you know, be willing, you know, make sure you have those friends, or maybe it's your therapist or whatever, but someone, again, to say, he said this to me, he did this, it doesn't feel right.

I don't know what to think.

Could there be something else going on?

You know, but that's probably the lesson.

So the good news is there's something you could have done differently.

It probably would have given you more information.

You may have found out sooner.

Okay.

Yeah.

But yeah, you can't stop people from hurting you.

Relationships are risky.

Love is risky.

You know, you're going to survive this.

And when you do, you will have a scar, but you will be healed from it and you will be more resilient, you know?

And it's just, you know, it's going to be a small chapter in your life.

You're doing a lot of things that I didn't do like around your age that cost me time, friendships, a lot of unnecessary sadness and pain because I was just too damn stubborn and unself-aware, emotionally immature, and just didn't want to accept reality.

But you are accepting reality and it's positive.

And there's a small lesson to learn here about just being willing to like not sweep.

things that don't make sense under the rug.

But other than that, I think you're heading in the right direction.

You just got to stay the course.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you, Nick.

It's been really helpful talking to you.

Okay.

Well, I'm glad it's helpful.

I know it's not some sort of like magic pill that's like eye-opening because again,

you know, you're, it's just natural to think about things.

The biggest thing like that you are already doing is just recognize you're, when you're having unproductive thoughts, try to change that thought into something else.

And then every day it gets just a little easier.

Don't spend the, you know, the big thing is it's, it's, it's less the romantization that you have to worry about and and more of the trying to figure him out that you have to worry about.

And don't waste any time trying to understand why he did what he did or if it's something you did or things like that, because your ego is going to want to like, your ego is going to want to do that because your ego doesn't like the feeling that someone could just dismiss you and not care about, you know, he didn't give a fuck about you.

And that's very hurtful.

He showed very little empathy at all.

Yeah.

And that's.

I don't think I'll ever understand exactly why any of this, like,

he's a weak person.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the answer.

He's weak.

That's true.

Right.

Because you probably wouldn't be with him today.

And honestly, there's a part of it, like, this is probably a good thing in a weird way.

Yeah.

Because, like, he obviously didn't want to be in this relationship.

He went about it in a very toxic way.

Right.

And like, the why, who knows?

Who cares?

His journey, his problem, right?

Why he didn't want to be in this relationship?

I don't know.

That happens every day, you know, feelings change.

And the person you thought you wanted to be with, I think you just have to recognize that, like, thank, thank God.

Yeah.

And it won't be, you know, it might be five, 10, 15 years.

And the good news is, is like, again, just going forward, it's just like, make healthy choices.

You know, every, every choice that you have to make matters and it matters to the outcome of your life.

And the more you get good at making choices that aren't ego driven, that consider not only the short-term payoff, but the long-term payoff, your life is going to work out.

When, how, what it's going to look like, I don't know, but it will work out.

And you will look back in this moment with a lot of gratitude at a time where right now you're just feeling a lot of pain.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's true.

I feel like there is always kind of like a reason why everything happens.

It just takes a while to see it sometimes, I guess.

Yeah.

And I, you know, that's the thing.

For me, you know, yeah, like, I don't look at it as like it was a reason.

I just part of me that's like a little bit of luck, you know?

I don't know.

Who knows?

But the point is, is that I was willing to learn from it and I was willing to move on and I was willing to finally move forward.

I didn't become some sort of like woman-hating guy because I felt like, you know, I just kept getting taken, you know, taken for granted or taken advantage of, you know, I just, I didn't want to be that person.

And so I didn't become that person.

I still pursued relationships and love and I still pursue my goals altered and changed and things like that.

And I was willing to learn from mistakes, right?

So I think I ultimately made more healthier choices than unhealthy choices.

And a lot of people don't.

You know, sometimes people will make years of unhealthy choices because they don't process these emotions.

And then those emotions turn into resentment.

And then they, you know,

project them onto new relationships and things like that.

And then the next thing you know, you have all these broken relationships because you're sabotaging them because you never really dealt with something healthy in the first place.

But that's not what's going on here.

So, you know, I only say that because that should make you

give you a little bit of like confidence boost each day to be proud of yourself of how you're handling it, you know, and then find those small wins because, you know, your ego is a little bruised right now.

And so be willing to like pat yourself on the back and acknowledge you're doing the hard work.

And then this is going to pay off in the long run.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

Well, keep us posted on your healing journey.

Would love an update, you know, in a couple of months to see how you're feeling, but hopefully better.

And I, one last bit of advice, be willing to try dating before you actually feel ready.

You know, maybe not right now, but just,

there's no like, oh, I'm definitely, you know, like, don't wait till you're like really lonely and just like, man, I really, you know, just try, you know, and it, it might be slightly triggering or you're going to have more bad dates, but just get out there, right?

And whatever happens on those dates, it certainly doesn't mean anything about the relationship you just ended.

It just means that, yeah, like there are more people you're not attracted to or into

than than you are.

And that's, that's a normal thing.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

I'll take that into account.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, good luck.

Sorry this happened to you.

If you can get over this, you're, you're going to be better for it.

I mean, resiliency and an ability to overcome personal pain and heartbreak, I think is a huge factor in anyone's quality of life because adversity happens, happens to us all.

And some, it breaks some people and makes other people stronger.

So make sure that you're, it's, it's making you stronger.

Yeah, that's kind of what i'm trying to just do right now okay it's just be a little bit stronger just yeah also be patient yeah and patient all right well good luck sorry this has happened to you okay uh thanks for the call thanks so much nick all right

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How's it going?

Hi, Nick.

Nice to meet you.

My name's Mona.

I'm 35 years old, and I'm worried that I ruined a friendship by being honest.

Okay, probably not, but tell me more.

So I've had a friend since college.

We met when we were both 18 years old.

We live in different parts of the country, but we've been able to stay pretty close.

We talk a couple times a month.

Even though we haven't lived in the same city, we make it a point to visit each other and see each other.

And every summer we get to see each other when I go to my lake house.

I know you have a lake house too.

Jennifer, her name's Jennifer.

She's been dating the same guy since she was about 25 years old.

He's perfectly nice.

I like him just fine.

He's not my taste, but I like him as a person.

And I don't care that he's not my cup of tea, but over the last few years, I've just seen Jennifer's light kind of get dimmer and dimmer.

She doesn't seem very happy.

in the relationship.

And the last few times I've been with her, she just doesn't seem happy.

They don't really touch.

They just don't seem like they're actually dating, but they've been together almost 10 years.

So then about two years ago, Jennifer was diagnosed with cancer and had to undergo chemo and then surgery.

And around the same time, I lost a parent.

And so we were both going through a pretty tough time together and were able to connect more, I felt like, during that time and be there for each other.

And so that summer, I got to see her again and Jennifer and I went out to brunch and we were talking about life like we usually do.

And then she confided in me that she wasn't happy in her relationship, that even though her and her boyfriend were together and he had been there for her, they just weren't connecting, she wasn't happy, and that she didn't know if they were going to make it.

And usually I would bite my tongue, but this time I didn't.

And I was honest and said, I agree with you.

You don't seem happy.

It seems like every time I see you, you're honestly less happy.

And you've gotten through this disease.

Like, why would you go through the rest of your life with someone who makes you so unhappy?

And she's like, Mona, I can't break up with somebody who stuck by me through cancer.

And so we connected, we were talking.

It was a really nice conversation.

I told her, being happy in your relationship really changes your life.

I'm in a really great relationship, the best I've ever been in.

And it's just different when you're with someone who makes you feel whole and happy and in a good place.

And so we hugged and left the conversation.

And now it's been two years.

She's still with her boyfriend.

And I feel like now there's a wall up between us.

It makes me sad.

We don't talk as regularly as we used to.

We don't talk about her relationship.

I definitely feel the distance and I feel like I messed up by being honest with her and telling her my feelings and I really miss her and our closeness.

Are you reaching out to her as often as you used to and not getting responses or are you feeling insecure about what you said and kind of waiting for her?

to reach out because you don't know if she's upset with you and you're using you're and you're seeing how much she'll reach out to you as a barometer of how upset she is or isn't with you based on what your honesty?

No, I still reach out.

We're both busier with work.

I mean, we kind of both progressed in our careers, but I still reach out at least once a month.

And there was a good couple month stretch there where she just wasn't responding to calls.

And that could have been like her.

going into remission, getting through cancer, like dealing with her own stuff.

I mean, we used to just talk about our relationships way more and they're just not part of the conversation when we do talk and i've been reaching out about like books or things she's doing or work but it it just feels different i just well how how hard did you push when you had that conversation i mean i didn't say like break up with him now okay but i definitely i was honest and i said you don't seem happy sure but she

also said that too Right.

And I've, but she's still with him.

So she obviously made a decision and we've never talked about it.

And have you brought, have you tried to talk about it?

Well, that's my question to you is whether it's worth going back and revisiting this and saying like, hey, I know we talked about this two years ago.

You obviously made the decision you did.

I'm good with it.

I like your boyfriend.

I'm happy if you're happy.

Or if I should just kind of let it ride and see if we get back to the place we were.

So just to be clear, so in the past two years, you've never actually said to her, our relationship feels a little different.

I feel less close to you.

I miss you.

And I just want to check in and see if we're good, but like, I miss you.

And, you know, you've never done that, right?

Oh, I've never done that.

Okay.

Yeah, then you definitely need to do some version of that for sure.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, it's your best friend, right?

And part of what your friend, your, your friendship was based off of like opening up to each other.

There's a version of this story where she's, she calls in here or talks to her therapist and says, i i miss my best friend but i just feel like she hates my boyfriend or my relationship and i just i don't know just things feel weird and i don't know what to say and yada yada yada i don't know again this also is a person who was diagnosed with cancer i don't know what that's like to deal with i'm sure obviously there's a lot of trauma there and maybe also there's a combination it's you know it's and she's around your age yeah we're the same age and in

kids for you her other what are other things going on in her life or your life just just work in my life i'm planning a wedding i got engaged last year this year she was at my engagement and it was just strange because like me and my fiancé were so happy very much in love and i think she laughed maybe once over the four days we were together she would like come out in the morning read her book not interact with her boyfriend at all.

When she said, I can't break up with someone who stayed with me by cancer, what was your response?

I said, he probably feels like he can't break up with you because you had cancer.

I feel like they're in a relationship pickle where she thinks, like, this person's like, how did she take that?

She was like, maybe you're right.

He doesn't seem happy either.

And then you just never talked about it again.

Right.

You never followed up.

Well, how would you follow up?

Like, I know they're still.

You're talking to me.

I mean, I just say whatever I'm thinking or feeling, you know?

I mean, what would you say?

Like, oh, you're still with him?

Like, you're good?

Well, whatever.

I don't know.

I mean, I mean, younger me probably would have been a little, would have probably definitely had less tact, that's for sure.

I mean, this is your best friend you're talking about.

A best friend that you're to, you know, and, and, you know, a lot of friendships serve different purposes, but this is a best friend that you, that you confide in each other.

It does, it doesn't sound like this conversation was some sort of like big outburst or

huge.

fight or anything.

I mean, she came to you, confirmed what you had already been thinking before, mentioned that she wasn't quite happy.

You gave her your opinion.

It aligned with hers at the time.

She wasn't even offended by the fact that you said, well, maybe he's afraid to break up with you.

I would have probably just said, yeah, you can.

You can definitely do that.

People break up after having kids together.

You can break up after.

beating cancer.

And to your point, you're right.

He def, whether he was or wasn't happy, he probably didn't break up with you.

If he wanted to break up with her before the diagnosis and then she gets a diagnosis, then, you know,

there's there's definitely a possibility that he was like, I'm gonna be the biggest asshole in the world.

And to your point, getting cancer while you're in a relationship with someone,

regardless of what they decide to do, if they decide to be by your side and

be a person who, you know, emotionally helps you out and is there for you, isn't some sort of life sentence that you are for, it's not a marriage contract, you know, that you are stuck with this person forever.

Otherwise, you're, you're a shitty person for leaving the person that who stood by your side.

You know, it's just not how it works.

She came to you to validate her feelings.

And, and that's exactly what you did.

There's a part of me.

I just wonder if you are obviously overthinking this on some level and you haven't checked in with her.

So you have come up with your own version of why she is acting and feeling the way she does.

And maybe that version has more to do with the fact that like her feelings about her relationship probably haven't evolved all that much.

And her, to your, you know, like you said, her light's just gotten a little dimmer and dimmer.

it's affecting her overall well-being in life and yeah and and maybe she doesn't bring it up to you because she doesn't want to sound like a broken record but i mean there's like this adage that you're you really shouldn't comment on someone's relationship so i guess that's why

i it says who i don't know like my whole life it's you bite your tongue about someone's relationship i don't know i don't know to a certain degree I mean, yes, I don't think you should, I don't think people should go out there and constantly give their unsolicited opinion about how other people you know choose to live their lives I agree with you there but the reason we have best friends in close interpersonal relationships and mentors and therapists and and the reason why we check in with parents if we're lucky enough to have positive relations with them is to help people like keep us on track you know I remember when you know my second girlfriend after we got engaged and we broke up my parents were like yeah we kind of hated her and i was like really thanks for letting me know and like the truth is i was a little annoyed but you're right.

I probably wouldn't have listened to them in the beginning.

And it is a fine line.

You need people in your life to be brave enough to give you some honest feedback.

And if, and if, if all we're doing is just like exiling those people, if they choose to be gently honest with us, then

that's an us problem.

So, yeah, I think you should be allowed.

So, anyways, what should you do about it?

I think you should maybe just ask her to get together.

And then when next time you...

It'd be a phone call, unless it was over over the summer.

You can get a phone call.

Fine.

And to say, ever since that conversation,

I've been in my head because I felt like I said something I shouldn't have said.

And I just want to say, one,

all I care about is having you in my life and having that connection that we've had for much of our adult lives.

I'm a little worried that I affected that by being honest with you when you asked me about your relationship.

And I just hope you know that I support you.

Whatever you want for your life, I support you and i hope i didn't cross a line i i want you to be able to come to me to run anything by me and i i will never judge you you're worried that she feels judged by you and maybe i don't know maybe she does and then you're worried she has a certain feeling about that judgment you're not yeah you're not judging her at all you're just more like you're all you're just worried about your honesty and and how she's choosing to react i don't know what's going on and i could only make guesses but i i'm pretty confident in saying you're not reading it accurately.

Okay.

Parts of it, maybe a little bit, sure.

But shut up to your shower.

You just have to try to say, listen, and I'm assuming that's what you want in terms of a friendship with her, that you could just...

I want to be open and honest.

And I want to hear if something's going wrong.

And I want to hear what's going good.

I don't want her to feel it's just a wall off that part of her life.

I just want to help you.

I'm not here to judge you.

And if I ever say something that crosses a line, I also want you to let me know if that's true.

You know, what are, you know, I just want us to be able to talk through things.

And what I miss most about my friendship with you is that you were one of the few people in my life that I really felt like we could just totally be honest with each other without judgment.

And our, our honesty was based off of our ability to be true friends and keep each other on track because I respect your opinion.

And I always felt you

respected mine.

And I was always very grateful for that.

And I just feel I've been in my head a little bit about that conversation and its impact on our friendship because like i've just been worried that i said the wrong things yeah okay i like that i guess i guess my fear with bringing it up again is like i'm gonna bring up all these old hurts and if she's still feeling the way she is but she's made the decision to stay with him then well if she's still feeling the way she is and she's made a decision to stay with him then then that's probably something you need to correct well you don't need i mean she she she needs to correct it like she shouldn't be with someone out of guilt because they did something kind two years ago.

And maybe she is, you know, you don't know.

But like, I think you are tiptoeing around this friendship too much and it's too delicate.

And you're spending too much time worrying and wondering when you could have just asked.

You have to be the example of a relationship you want to have with someone.

Ronnie Wu gave me that advice on this show a long time ago.

You know, if you want someone to text you back right away, text them back right away.

So you got to play the lead, you know, be the example.

She'll be her example too.

But But like you called in because you're like, I feel less close to my friend.

And I've been, I, two years ago, like, we had this conversation and I very gently was honest.

And now I'm worried if I shouldn't have said that.

And now you're tiptoeing around this friendship when what you want is to not tiptoe, but you're the one tiptoeing.

Okay.

And the example that you are giving for this friendship is one of tiptoeing and kind of unsure.

And maybe she's following your lead.

I don't know.

She might be doing the exact same thing.

I don't know.

Maybe you're both kind of like passive people who hate conflict.

Clearly, she hates conflict.

She's potentially staying with someone out of guilt.

If anything, be the example of how you think she could be in this relationship as well.

And all you're doing right now is showing her through your actions that she should stay with this guy.

How?

Because I'm not talking about it.

Yeah.

For two years, you've been feeling a certain way about this friendship and you've done nothing about it.

I'm not going to say it again.

Like, why not?

You see,

I'm not saying you call up and be like, hey, just a reminder, hate your fucking bar thing, you need to move up.

I'm not saying that.

I'm right now, you need to be honest about your relationship with her.

Her.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

And get back on track, but you do need to be open to the possibility of like, again, like, again, it's not about unsolicited advice, but if she asks you, hey, I'm feeling this, do you think you should lie to her?

Definitely not, but I get a lot of feedback from like the world and movies that like when comment on someone's relationship and then they stay with them it changes your relationship with them that might be true to a certain degree but there's other factors at play i suppose but also

maybe it just more redefines what your relationship really is if that makes sense you thought this person was your closest friend and one of the very few people in your life that you guys could could just be completely transparent with except whether we

you know we i don't i don't comment on their relationship and I don't, I don't, I don't say anything other than, oh my God, just love, love, let, love that you're in love, love that you're happy.

It's totally fine.

It's totally great.

And yeah, I don't know.

Listen, sometimes we have to have tough conversations with friends.

I mean, you know, it sounds like ultimately she just might not be happy with this guy, but like, God forbid, what if, what if he was emotionally or physically abusive?

Are you just going to, are you going to not say anything because you don't want to rattle a cage and change the dynamic of your friendship?

Like, where do you draw the line?

Yeah, it's true.

It's It's just, it's really hard to watch your friend be

so

unhappy and like not know.

Yeah, listen, you're right.

I think the better thing to do than being the friend that says, I hate your boyfriend,

is to let your friend know how much they deserve, make them feel confident, to give them permission to make tough choices.

Like when she said, hey, I can't break up with someone who did this for me.

You should have said, yes, you can.

And you could have said, listen, I'm not saying you should.

This is not

up to me.

I want you to make a decision that makes you happy.

And whatever that decision is, I will support you because all I care about are two things, having you in my life and you being happy.

But I really want you to be happy.

And if

this relationship isn't making you happy, well, I know it will be very difficult.

to move on and you will have some guilt around it.

It is okay to do it.

It is okay.

And you deserve to be happy.

And I will be by your side and it will be difficult, but you deserve this.

And you deserve to do things that make you happy.

And

beating cancer with a boyfriend by your side isn't a life sentence to stay in a relationship that doesn't make you happy.

So if you're not happy, and you know, like that's the, you know what I'm saying?

Like you're just, that's being gentle.

You're not saying you're not happy, break up with them.

You're just saying, if this is how you feel, then I'm giving you permission to do this.

And it's okay.

And if you feel guilty, that's normal, but it's still okay.

And I will be by your side.

Yeah.

She came to you.

You know, she just, she didn't, you didn't come to her.

So does that make sense?

But again, you are setting the example with this friendship.

You are doing the things that you're having a problem with.

Does that make sense?

Like, yeah, no, I.

I'm glad you pointed that out because you're right.

I have, I haven't asked about the boyfriend.

I haven't, I focus on work, books, other things we talk about.

Like I've just avoided that subject.

You've also avoided being honest with her about the disconnect in the relationship that you two have.

Yeah.

And you have assumed it's the boyfriend.

And you might be right.

I don't know.

You are not just opening up to your friend and being honest with her.

And now you're feeling like she is not opening up with you and being totally honest with you.

And I don't know, maybe both are true, but you are definitely on some level projecting onto her.

Yeah, that's definitely true.

So I would, I would just try not to do that.

Yeah.

So, yeah, no, I think you answered my question.

Call her up, lead with love, say, hey, you know, I miss you, and I feel like there's this disconnect.

And I just feel like I, I said the wrong thing.

And I just feel like, you know, and to say, like, I don't know, like everyone, like what you told me, I just, I've been in my head because I, I, I gave you some honest feedback.

And now I feel like, you know, you, you can't talk to me about that relationship because you think I don't think you should be in it.

All I care about is you being being happy and you being in my life.

And I'm, I was grateful that you were honest with me.

I wanted to be honest with you, but I, you know, if you're happy, I'm happy.

That's all that matters.

Yeah.

If you're not happy, I want to help you be happy.

But, you know, and I want you to feel comfortable coming to me.

Yeah, I like that.

So try that out and see how it goes.

Okay.

That's very good advice.

You always give very good advice.

All right.

Thank you.

I'd love an update.

I'd love to see how this potentially good advice plays out.

You know, yeah, I'll let you know.

We'll see.

Challenge, just challenge yourself to be able to you know to have a tougher conversation it'll be okay just lead with lead with love you're clearly a gentle person you know you you you seem fairly conflict averse in some things yeah

so i just have a hard time imagining your friends gonna be like yeah i know you were just such a bitch and i just don't i don't want anything to do with you and i can't believe you said that

I don't know

I could be wrong but

no I don't think so I'm you're right I'm not modeling how I want the relationship to be.

So I think that makes sense.

Okay.

All right.

Well, good luck.

Keep me posted.

Would love to know.

Thank you.

And thank you so much, Nick.

I've listened to you for years.

Like, you really, I think I'm in a

happy, healthy relationship because of listening to you and the advice.

Well, I really appreciate you saying that, but now apply it to your friendship.

Okay, now apply it to my friendship.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

All right.

Take care.

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How's it going?

It's going well.

What's your name?

My name is Harper.

I'm 52, and my relationship has gone from sex toys to vintage toys.

All right, what's that mean?

That means that we used to have a fun relationship and then it went stale once he started being more focused on his business, which happens to be with vintage toys.

Okay.

All right.

Is this your husband, boyfriend?

Fiancé.

Fiancé.

We've been engaged for 12 years

together for 16.

We have a long engagement due to medical insurance issues.

So, what do you mean by that?

So, if we have medical insurance on our family and where we're located, it's about $2,000 a month versus assistance with the state because he doesn't make a lot of money.

So, he is

the supporter of our son, per se.

Okay, but I still don't totally grasp why that means you can't get married.

We could, but then we'd have, we wouldn't qualify for the assistance.

The assist assistance for your son?

Yes.

Because of like, then you're you would have a dual income and then

right correct.

Okay.

And what's going on with his son that requires assistance?

Well, nothing really.

It's just the cost of medical insurance for us.

We can't afford to have, you know, our mortgage payment, our other bills, plus this huge medical premium that we have to pay each month.

Because my job provides insurance, family insurance, but it's almost $2,000 a month.

It would cost us just in a premium for medical insurance.

Okay.

I mean, I guess.

Does that bother you?

Or are you just both kind of like, yeah, I mean.

Yeah, it does.

We've both been married before.

And so we came into the relationship with

each of us having one child.

It's not that we don't want to get married because we talk about it all the time.

Even the last time we talked about it was December of 2024, and he brought it up that he still wants to get married.

And then all of a sudden, he has a change of heart because he feels that he doesn't love me enough to get married to me.

Oh, he said that.

Okay.

He did.

When?

He said that about three weeks ago.

came out of the blue.

I had no idea.

Okay.

We laugh.

We get along good.

We don't argue.

we have a great family.

Um, a lot of our friends call us the ideal relationship.

He said there's no one else, but I've always told him he his job is what he's married to, and he'd rather do that than go to his son's sporting events or

do family items.

But he's convinced that's not the case.

He's convinced what's not that works, not interfering with

correct.

I feel he's married to his job he comes home he works he's always traveling for work it's what is he's on his phone for work what is actually what actually does he do like what in the vintage toy space is he like so he owns a local toy store and then he has two other locations that are about an hour away and the other one's about two hours away okay

and it's not it's not profitable not yet

and how long has he been doing this he's been doing this for about six years he worked in the corporate world wasn't happy um he was the breadwinner and

i said you know you have all these collections you know you should start a toy store so he did so wait the first six years the first six years of your engagement, he was working, he was the breadwinner working in corporate America.

Correct.

Why didn't she get married then?

I don't know.

Yeah, like you're, you're, this,

it sounds like your reasoning for getting married has changed over the years.

You've come up with new excuses that have been easier for you to swallow.

I mean, that are not based in reality.

Because, like,

yeah, like 12 years for an engagement, that's an absurd amount of time.

It's like longer than like movies about long engagements.

It's not the 40-year engagement.

The thing you're talking about, finances, I get it, but like there are, that's just the legal aspect.

You guys could literally like have a friend ceremony and celebrate your love and not legally be married by like the state or judge, you know, legally.

Well, in December, I did get him a wedding band

and he wore it.

And then he was still wearing it when he said he wanted

time apart.

So I told him I was really confused by that.

He says, Well, I love you,

but I don't know if I can be with you.

And to me, that's mixed messages.

Yeah.

How old is he?

He's 46.

I feel he's having a midlife crisis.

Maybe.

How old are you?

I'm 52.

Okay.

He definitely, I mean, he's definitely potentially going through something.

I've tried to tell him that, and he says, no, that's not it.

I'm fine.

He doesn't want to talk to any of his good friends about it.

He has some therapist online that he just started.

And according to him, she says he's doing the right thing about not going through this with me.

Through this being marriage.

Right.

And then, like, I mean, so your sex life, it's obviously like slowed down as well.

Stale.

Totally stale.

So, what are you willing to do about it?

I am willing to

give him more, I guess.

Our relationship came more lately as I feel we're roommates versus partners in the bedroom.

Why do you think giving him more of anything is going to help?

Is he asking for more?

He's not.

Okay, so why do you think giving him more is going to help?

Feel that I've tried.

Do you not think you've tried?

I know I have tried.

And he has just said, I'm not in the mood.

i'm tired you know the standard excuse that is and it's getting old yeah when i said what are you willing to do about it more wasn't on my list of things that i thought maybe you could do about it

less

was maybe on there yeah what i mean by that is like yeah it sounds like you have focused on your connection he has focused on work.

Right.

Right.

You have tried to check in.

He's been fairly dismissive.

Right.

You're not getting any answers that offer you any clarity.

Correct.

You know,

you have tried for a while now.

You have been in a 12-year engagement.

And now you have this new narrative in your head that it is only about insurance, which at this point, there might be some truth to it, but it certainly wasn't true the first six months of that engagement.

And again, insurance aside and legal stuff aside, you guys could just as easily celebrate your love by having a backyard ceremony with friends and having your friend marry you and not have and not make it like legal so it doesn't change your marriage status.

But as far as you feel married, you know, but that's not happening, right?

So at what point are you going to just be willing to say,

All right, well, you don't know if you want to be with me and you don't know if you want to get married to me and you don't know if you love me enough Well, I've already I've I've tried I've spent too much energy and time already i've gotten nowhere and i need to walk away because this isn't like at this point i'm just treading water or running in quicksand whatever metaphor you want to come up with and i'm done and if there was a chance for him to wake up that will be the only thing that does it i mean what what else could you more isn't going to work yeah It just, it hurts my heart.

I've always felt he's my person.

I've always, you know, thought of us growing old together and

he

knows me more than anybody.

And we have great conversations.

We're very supportive of each other.

But when it comes to physical intimacy and moving forward in life, I feel he's just

there.

He's not putting any effort in.

Yeah, but it's not just the bedroom department.

Right.

You know, he's, he does say he wishes wishes he would help out more.

And I said, well, prove it, help out more.

So I have now asked him to live somewhere else.

I can't do this for myself, see him if that's not what he feels.

To be honest with you, I want him to miss me.

I want him to figure out

why he's not in this relationship like he should be.

I mean, that's so you so he moved out.

You moved, you kicked him out?

Yeah.

How long ago?

A week ago.

Okay.

And how is this?

And I don't text him.

Okay.

He texts me first during the day, which is super hard.

How did he handle that change?

He was surprised by it, but he said, if this helps me be a bit me as in him be a better person, that he will do it.

But I said, well, I'm worried that you'll focus on yourself and not our relationship.

And his reply was, it is what it is.

I don't think he's all that sad that you kicked him out.

I don't, I, I would hope he would be, but you, you're right.

Yeah, I, I think he is waiting for you to break up with him.

That's not what I wanted to hear.

I'm sorry.

But I get it.

I mean, men, men are notorious for being bad partners and waiting for their women partners to break up with them because they don't want to to be the bad guy.

That's pretty cool.

Well, the thing that gets me every time is when he talks about hurting me, he sobs.

Like he does not want to hurt me, but he said his biggest fear is that he won't have those feelings again.

And that scares him, he said.

Yeah, that seems honest.

You know, you've been in each other's lives for a long time, 16 years.

Yes.

You certainly play a role in his life.

I just don't know if if it's the role that you want to play.

Wife, lover, you know.

Well, in the circle back about three years ago,

I don't know if I was going through a midlife crisis, but I kind of pulled away a little bit

and was more, I didn't know what I wanted in life.

But then it came my dream career.

So there was a job change.

And at that same time, I just started doing some more self-help therapy.

And I was like back in the game.

We were great, great relationship, every part of it.

And then I got diagnosed with

small lymphotic lymphoma, which just is, if you're going to have cancer, this is the one to get.

And ever since then, I have felt that he's pulled back a little bit, but not

he just hasn't been as affectionate, like the kisses and the hugs and the touching hasn't been as affectionate since then.

And part of me feels that is when the turning point happened.

And when I would have a conversation with him, he would just kind of say, No, that's not it.

That's never it.

You know, you're my person.

But I'm just, I don't know if I'm overthinking everything, but just trying to see where the change happened for him.

It doesn't really matter.

What matters is things have changed.

Right.

I doubt he's going to admit

to aligning with this diagnosis.

And maybe he doesn't even know for sure.

Yeah.

But what is important is that he is fairly honest about how he is feeling about the relationship and you right now, which is like not great.

Right.

And he pulls it, he says that, well, my parents had a similar situation.

I feel like that has messed me up.

He said his first marriage ended and he became not trusting with people.

So he does have very jealous tendencies and he wants to, you know, really dive into why his parents separated and if it's in him that he hasn't forgiven his parents or something.

I don't know.

Yeah, but maybe, maybe he,

maybe.

Maybe he stayed in this relationship

longer than he otherwise would out of like trying to prove his parents wrong.

Maybe.

Yeah, maybe.

And we don't know.

right?

The good news is, is like, you do, I mean, I think that kicking him out is probably the right choice.

And so, when I asked, like, what are you willing to do about it?

Like, you were willing to do that.

That's not easy.

Right.

You know, I just don't want him to be with anybody else.

Well, that's

you might, you, you know, that might be out of your control.

Yeah.

If you had a choice, you only had one choice.

All right.

I'm an angel.

I come down from heaven.

And I say, you can be in this relationship with him.

It's not going to get any better.

Your sex life, this is pretty much it.

I'm not saying you'll never have sex with him, but

it's never going to really be that great, or you're never going to feel really desired by him.

And his feelings for you are essentially going to be the same.

And that's option one.

Option two is you can break up with him.

And I can guarantee you that

in the next five years, it might be tomorrow and it might be five years to the day.

I'm not going to tell you.

But in those five years, you're going to meet someone and it's going to be a really beautiful relationship.

And this is a person you will happily grow old with and it'll be a great relationship.

And in the meantime, in those five years, we're, you know, again, I'm not going to tell you when you meet them.

You will certainly have the freedom to date.

get late a couple times, have some fun.

Some of them might be toxic.

They might fuck you up a little bit.

But either way, you'll have some life.

But again, you're going to meet someone and it's going to be great.

The only catch is that he's going to meet someone too.

And I mean, how you choose to process that or how much you want to care about that and how much you want to invest your emotional energy on whatever he's doing, that's entirely up to you.

But he is going to move on as well.

But you will, you will find a happy relationship, which, which, which sounds better to you.

The happy relationship, as hard as that is, I know I deserve that.

So think about that, right?

Because right now, a lot of your decision tree is based off of stopping him

from

being with someone else.

And right.

And you're thinking more about that than what

you might get out of removing yourself from this relationship.

Yes, 100%.

All right.

Well, I mean, I think this is something you should think about.

I mean, you understand the silliness behind it.

I mean, it's normal, understandable.

Yeah.

But since you can acknowledge it, that's probably not the most productive use of your energy.

No, it's not.

And I'm sick of feeling like this.

You know, I have so many other things that I can focus my energy on and having this person put me through this, which I thought I'd never do again in my entire life.

It's not fair.

It's not.

But, you know,

you're 52.

You're old enough to know that you make promises to yourself and then life happens and years go by and those promises we've made to ourselves get outdated or, you know, expire.

You know what I'm saying?

It's just like things expire, just like food.

It's like, yeah,

this used to be really tasty and good, but now it's not because it's old and outdated and it's expired.

And 10 years ago, you would have been like, I'm going to choose to eat that.

And it's going to be because it's delicious.

Yeah.

And now it's just like, yeah, sure, you've made a, things have changed.

And,

you know, that happens.

And, you know, so it doesn't matter what you told yourself in the past or what you promised yourself, you know, you have to make decisions based on what you know today.

And, you know, it's not like you're quitting.

You've certainly tried.

You've checked in.

You've tried, you know, and you're still trying.

You're trying by trying to put, you know, to make them miss you and, and, and show a little, you know, but I think you got to push a little further.

The good news is.

You've chosen the path for yourself that I would have chosen for you, which is to

step away a little bit, create some separation

and be willing to let him go if that's ultimately what he wants.

And then instead of losing your mind and focusing on, is he dating someone else and letting your ego take over and trying to sabotage that and stay in this relationship just because the hurt of him finding someone

other than you that might trigger your ego, then you just accept the way it is, recognize that like, hey, I'm halfway through my life.

I don't want to waste these good years that I have left And I'm tired of feeling this way.

And whatever he wants to do is whatever he wants to do.

But I deserve to find someone that I can have fun with and enjoy it and have good sex and just feel wanted and desired and feel sexy.

Because I did even

about

just after,

you know, he lost his mind, I did have like a boudoir photo shoot and I just sent him one picture and his response was, damn, that was it.

not that i expected more but i'm like you certainly wanted yeah you did

yeah you definitely expected more

i expected more but yet i didn't because that's just him well you certainly deserve more i guess probably wouldn't have done it if you would have said if i would have been like all he's gonna say damn yeah no way there you go so then you expected more yeah

um okay i think i know what i need to do.

Yeah.

I, you know, I'm sorry going through this.

And who knows?

You know, maybe he is going through a midlife crisis.

Maybe, like you, maybe the business will take off and he will feel like he can spend more energy on you.

But the way what you're describing, it's like he's not.

I find that usually men, when, when, when they're happy in their relationships and unhappy with their professional careers, lean into those relationships.

Yeah.

I think you're using his job as an excuse to ignore how you he might just be feeling about the relationship.

Well, yeah, I just feel like that took, once that started taking up his time, he just kept going with it because he loves it.

And that I love that for him.

I want him to be successful, but family comes first.

And that's

not happening.

I mean, he's not even pretending to like,

you know, he's saying, I don't know if I love you enough to get married he's saying things like well you know uh it is what it is after you yeah

that pissed me off yeah i get it pissed me off too yeah i'm i'm sorry you know it's but yeah i the big thing is doing more of what you've been doing uh isn't gonna work and doing and and what you just started doing doing more of that, which is to basically show that you will be okay without him.

Yeah.

And you get, you know, it's like, you know, as human beings, we just, we don't want to lose things that have value, right?

And the more in this stage right now that you're in, the more you act like you can't live without him and then you're, you're comfortable accepting the bare minimum, the more, the less likely he is to wake up and realize, what am I doing?

I'm taking for granted one of the good things I do have going for me, you know, in my life.

Well, and one of my fears are, okay, say he's like, oh, I'm sorry, I love you, blah, blah, blah.

In the back of my head, I would have a fear that this would happen again.

Like he'd go through

the same situation of, I don't know if I love you.

And I don't know if I want to stay in a relationship knowing that that, I mean, it can happen with any relationship, but to me, once I've been told, I don't know if I love you like you should, I pull back

emotionally.

Yeah, it makes sense.

You know, and again, yeah, he's at a weird time of his life.

He's middle-aged.

Does he take good care of himself?

He does, but he

takes

some sort of supplements that he said is supposed to help him with his energy.

And he doesn't eat a ton and he likes to fast a lot and work out every day.

I mean, he's not a a junk food junkie, but I feel like he could be

what he puts in his body could be better choices.

Sure, but like, I mean, physically, how does he look pretty good for his age?

Yeah, he does.

And he works out.

He looks tired.

I mean, maybe he's just as tired.

Yeah, and he probably could eat better too.

I just,

I think he's waiting for you to break up with him, whether he actually knows it or not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the best thing you could do right now is probably say, you know, listen, I was really hoping you moving out would be some kind of wake-up call, but clearly it's not.

And I don't want to do this and I want to be with you, but you, I don't feel like you want to be with me.

And I'm just, I don't feel like I'm any kind of priority in your life.

And you don't seem all that interested in doing anything about it.

So I think we should be done.

Those are hard words.

Yeah.

No, it's not easy.

I don't, I, I know it's not going to be easy.

But I think in the long run, if I put myself first, we'll make me just a better person overall and well just remember you don't want this and so if he wants to stop this from happening he can and just remember that so if he doesn't stop you then you you have your answer yeah

and like i mean really stop you i don't mean like give you give you the well you know Don't fall for him ultimately accepting your choice to break up and then him saying something like, don't give up on me.

Just stick, stick to the story.

I want to, this is done.

Like, if he's like, I don't want, no, why are you breaking up with me?

Like, I love you and I want to work on this.

And like, let's get to, go to therapy.

And I don't know why.

I, I'm sorry.

You're right.

I've been taking you for granted.

And I'm, I'm, I'm fucking sorry.

And like, I'm, I want to, I'm sorry for making you feel this way.

And I'm, let's fucking go.

Yeah.

If he gives you that, fine.

Then definitely, you know, you're hoping for that.

But if he's like, ultimately like, well, you get, you got to do what you got to do, you know, which is in the category of it is what it is.

And then says something like, well, just don't give give up on me.

You know, that's all he, he's just saying that because he doesn't want you to move on.

You know, he wants you again, you, you clearly give him something.

Maybe you play the role of mom.

I don't know, your emotional support.

Like he's, he is used to having you and you do things for him, I'm sure, right?

So you bring value to his life and he is taking and he's enjoying that value while

not being, you know, well, just, I don't know.

I don't, you know, so he's getting something out of it.

Um, and you've, you've still made it worth his time to not completely leave, probably because you've just been really understanding.

Yes.

And patient and chill.

Right.

And I've been telling him, you know, couples do this as a team.

We work through the hard things.

And he goes, I know, and you've always been there for me, but this I need to do by myself.

Exactly.

He doesn't want to do it with you.

Right.

All right.

I'm going to put on my big girl pants.

All right.

I'm sorry.

Sorry it's happened.

Please keep us posted.

But listen, it's bullshit.

You've been in a 12-year engagement.

It's just bullshit.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

It's been so long that sometimes I forget that I am engaged.

Yeah.

Well, best of luck.

I'm sorry this is happening, but

good things will come of it.

Okay.

I will give you an update when I know more.

All right.

Sounds good.

I appreciate it.

Thanks, Nick.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

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