E940 - Mormon Wives Finale, Maks and Peta, JoJo Siwa’s New Relationship? Summer House & Phaedra Returns

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What's going on, everybody?

Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition.

I am your host, Nick, and we are recording from a different place today, a different pop-up studio.

We're all over the place.

We're all over.

We bounce around.

We bounce here.

We bounce there.

Oh, we're in Vancouver at the moment.

Yes.

Yes.

We're in Canada.

Yeah.

In Canada.

Great country of Canada.

The country that said, we just, we just want a leaf.

Show

on our flag.

Just all we need.

Just a leaf.

They're simple.

They're minimalist.

Love.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a good, the maple leaf, too.

I mean, that's a great.

If you're going to pick a little bit.

It's a big leaf.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The big leaf.

Have you guys had poutine yet?

I know.

Well, I mean, I've had it.

It's not for me.

You know,

I know it's a staple.

I'm not surprised.

Yeah.

Trauma for me.

Yeah.

Have you had any maple syrup?

Have I had maple syrup?

In Canada.

From.

No.

Not since we've been here.

Okay.

No.

Well, let me know when you do.

But I did have a fight with the lady on the airplane.

Yeah.

Let's hear.

I saw this on your story.

I need to hear more.

Spell.

Set the stage.

I'm setting the stage.

So we were leaving LAX,

flying into Vancouver, and we were,

you know, running a little late.

Happy to report we were flying first class, business class.

So we were not sitting in front of our gate because there were no seats.

So me, my mom, River, and Nick were all sitting at a different gate.

And whenever we arrived back, they were already boarding like zone four or something.

So we quickly jumped in line.

We were like the last people to sit in business class.

Everyone else had already sat.

We sit down and River's in a mood where she's talkative, you know, she's feeling spicy.

She's not crying.

She's not upset, but she's loud.

She's chitty.

She's chitty chatty.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

She's chitty chatty.

She's going to give it a woman chat.

To everyone who comes on the plane.

She's kind of, yeah,

she's experimenting with her vocal range, some could say.

She should.

So they're still boarding the plane.

We've not left the gate.

And I clock the woman in front of me.

Y'all know I love.

I love an eavesdrop phone read, you know, on an airplane.

I love it.

And if you don't want people to read your phone, then you need to turn the brightness all the way down and you need to sit in a position where someone behind you could not read your phone.

Yeah.

You don't hold it up like this.

You don't with your brightness all the way up and your text size also all the way up.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

That's so low.

That's a public spectacle at that point.

You're asking it was giving over 50.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You want everyone to read your text.

You're showing it to me.

You're, she was showing it to me.

So the woman in front of me who I thought honestly, like, was going to be quite nice because we, we made an

eye contact as we're as we're boarding.

Now I know that the eye contact was mean-spirited.

So I read on her phone.

The first thing I see is 18 month old in business class.

And I'm like, oh, here we go.

Locked in.

You got me.

Right.

So now it's like all I can see.

She goes to a different group chat and she starts typing to her friends.

There's some young couple.

Shout out, Nick.

Yeah.

Period.

Young.

Young couple.

She was including me.

There's some young couple behind me in business class with their around year old kid screaming up a storm.

The kind of people who think it's cute.

Then she proceeds with, they need to learn how to quiet their kid down.

Spells

spell first spells their kid, T-H-E-R-E.

So wrong there.

Their kid down.

And then says, the poor woman next to me is trying to work.

Granted, we have not left the gate.

So

you're trying to work we haven't even left the gate and you're already complaining she's not also like how what exactly do you expect us to do how are we allowing our 15th month old by the way uh not 18 month old what are we supposed to do punish them put them in the corner it's like do you want to try to quiet her down um yeah please feel free what what's what's your tax her nicely yeah yeah it's like do you have duct tape with you i don't know what do you want me to do have you ever talked to an 18 giving I've never had to parents.

So I, so as she's finishing her text, I lean up and tap her on the shoulder and I said, it's T-H-E-I-R there.

Not

Natalie.

I had no idea.

I had no idea what this was going on at the moment.

So I'm like, all I hear is Natalie.

I see Natalie lean forward and go, that's the wrong there.

And I'm just like,

what?

I'm like, I know she's trying to be, I guess she's trying to be nice, but like, why would she do that?

Cause I don't, I don't, I do not know that she saw this she's like immediately like tries to hide her phone and she's like are you reading my screen and i said are you texting about my kid and she kind of like

huffs and puffs and turns and then she brings out her phone same level same brightness same text size and starts going she just confronted me about a spelling error she's reading my text from behind me lol i respect it like she just is continuing wait so she was impressed she knew that you were reading it.

So now she was like,

I'm going to write nice things about her.

That was her way for asking for forgiveness.

Yeah.

Then Natalie tells me what's going on.

So I, loving an awkward situation, I thrive in uncomfortable situations.

I grabbed River and I gave River full permission to just go ham on the screen that's behind her seat, like hoping that River.

continues this behavior.

Oh, I wanted River to scream and cry and be so loud on this slide, but our perfect angel baby daughter slept the whole way.

Slept the whole way.

The entire flight.

So she was

nothing to complain about.

Oh man.

No, she was, you know, she was pissed because the person responded to her initial text being like, whenever she was like the 18-month-old in business class, responded being like, I'm sure they're tired of sitting.

And she was responds with, we just got on.

So it was like, if your friend.

And so her friend was trying to calm being like, oh, I'm sure the poor baby is tired of sitting.

And she's like, no, no, we just got on the flight.

That's the first time.

Anyways, if you're out out there and you're in that group chat and you listen to this show, shame your friend.

Actually, get rid of this friend.

This friend's not worth having.

It's like, we stopped complaining about babies crying on airplanes or making noises on airplanes years ago.

Like, if you, you are entitled to your child-free life, but you are not entitled to a child-free environment.

And to think you have the like privilege to be like children in business class making noise, how dare they?

The best payback, though, is that River was an angel.

Yeah.

And absolutely.

And also, she's stupid.

Sorry.

She doesn't know how to, she doesn't know how to spell.

She doesn't know which they're there and they are.

She doesn't know the difference.

Yeah, if you're gonna, if you're gonna hate me with Corrick, I was a little bummed.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I really wanted River to not nap.

I think

River was kind of being like, maybe the pettiest she could be in that moment.

No, I'm just.

I'm not even

literally.

River was like, you know what?

If I were to ask Nick about this, he would say, don't waste your energy on it.

And she didn't.

Hey,

man.

You guys, this actually.

But every time she got up to go to the bath, every time she got up to go to the bathroom, she would like kind of try to look at me.

And I would just give her the meanest mean mug with my sleeping baby sprawled across my body.

And it was just like,

oh.

Have you gotten more ferocious, Leia, since you've had a child?

So funny enough, this actually happened to me this morning where I was on a hike with my friend and they also have a baby.

Their baby is, I think, just turned one.

So their baby just turned one.

Louis is 10 about to be 10 months and we were on this hike and this woman with a golden retriever like quickly passes by us and is just like i'm just trying to get to the quiet and i'm like girl you're outside trying to get to the quiet our babies were not even ma'am go to the library they were not even crying they were literally just like ba-ba ba ba like cute yeah whatever and also we're outside on a hike so then my friend was like something no but my friend did he was like, okay, that's not even a real golden retriever.

She said, you have a mutt.

That's a mutt.

Why did the dog catch a

stray?

Yeah, that dog's a mutt.

I don't know.

My friend doesn't know that.

Because you know that that woman is the type of woman who like would take that so seriously.

But he struck a nerve.

I still feel like it's unfair to shit on the dog.

He struck a nerve.

Okay.

He was just like, that's not even a real golden.

And she turns around and she's like, actually,

it is a golden it's a field golden retriever and he's like okay sure

that's one of the stories that's like that would make me leave want to leave los angeles for the rest of my life it's like shit like that it was really funny i and then we like couldn't escape her because we kept touching up and it was just it was funny she's never gonna get to it this reminds me when i was a kid and there's you know you know like the kids movies where there's always like the character in the movie that's an adult that like hates the little kids and things like that i remember being a kid and thinking, who are those people?

How, how do you become such a miserable fucking person?

And then you grow up and you realize those people actually exist.

Yeah.

It's kind of fascinating.

Yeah.

I um I witnessed a man cussing at his children at the park and I ran over there and was like, that's enough.

And then his poor kids like looked so scared and I was like, do you know this man?

And they were like, yeah.

And I was like, you can't talk to them like this.

And he like got on his bike and was like, we're leaving.

And everyone rode off.

But I definitely insert myself in people's business a little too much when I think something's wrong.

Sorry, I stand up for what's right.

You do.

She does.

I've really enjoyed Nally's Mama Bear energy since having, I experienced Nally's Mama Bear energy when we were first dating and someone was talking shit about me in the line at Prince Street Pizza in New York.

She almost got in a fight with them.

Great pizza.

Fantastic pizza.

We have a great week lined up for you.

Hope you had a great Memorial Day week.

And because this week is going to be jam-packed later Later this episode, our friends Max and PETA Murgatroy join us, my former Dancing with the Stars partner and her husband join us to talk a little Secret Lives of Mormon Wives with us.

And then tomorrow for going deeper, really excited for you guys to hear this episode.

Jen and Zach Aflak join us to dive deep into their relationship.

Obviously, I think everyone's watching the season two of the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, but they stopped down filming.

They did not finish the season due to Jen's mental health.

So we'll get an update from Jen and Zach about their relationship.

And we dive deep into the relationship.

Obviously, they had a lot of controversy in season one, specifically Zach.

I think a lot of people were kind of shocked by some of the growth.

that we saw from Zach, or at least the perception of growth.

We don't really know.

I don't know how like genuine it is.

It seems legit.

But you will be able to find out tomorrow.

Well, you can decide for yourselves what you guys think.

So it's a great episode.

Lot to dive into.

They have a lot to say about their relationship

as well as the arrest of the women, specifically to me and that whole drama that's unfolding as well.

Thursday, we have Danny Ania

from the valley.

Danny Ania from the valley.

And we also have Chris Clemens.

Period.

Love that guy.

He's hilarious.

We love him.

Also, big reality TV fan.

So excited for Chris to join our show.

And just a reminder, Janet is the worst.

I mean,

in case you didn't know.

Yeah.

In case you didn't know, in case you forgot, it's, it's, you know, usually people, people make mistakes.

She makes them all the time.

It's like, maybe it's just not a mistake.

Maybe it's as she is.

I feel like Janet is the person on the plane who hates babies.

Yes.

I agree.

Honestly, that woman kind of was giving a little Janet energy.

Yeah.

It's just, I don't know.

I would like to think that maybe having a kid softened her, but it doesn't seem like it really quite has.

I feel like Janet's the, Janet gives like her kids fine but her kid is better than any other kid and any other kid is probably a demon from hell you know yeah that's how janet reads to me have y'all been seeing what justin bieber is is what's going on in the justin bieber haley bieber camp of it all yes because

it will not go away i see it everywhere i open instagram it's there i open tick tock it's there and i can't look it's partially my fault because i can't look away but like and i've always been on the side of like

protect Haley, Justin.

Let's leave them alone.

Like all of this outside nonsense is so annoying, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

But the recent stuff that's been that just

the caption under her Vogue cover,

shall we read?

Starting with that.

Dramatic read.

Okay.

Yes.

And then, but then going into his performance with Sizza.

So, but starting with Haley got the cover of American Vogue, which That is like just the hardest thing.

It's what any model could have ever dreamt of in their entire life is like American Vogue cover.

And he posts her cover and he says, yo, this reminds me when Haley and I got into a huge fight.

I told Hales that she would never be on the cover of Vogue.

Yikes, I know, so mean.

For some reason, because I felt so disrespected, I thought, I got to get even.

I think as we mature, we realize that we're not helping anything by getting even.

We're honestly just prolonging what we really want, which is intimacy and connection.

So baby, you already know, but forgive me for saying you wouldn't get a vogue cover because clearly I was sadly mistaken.

Huh?

It's a weird time to make, to talk about a perceived growth moment for you.

But then he also deleted it and changed the caption to just a bunch of emojis.

Cryptic emojis, just random emojis.

He deleted it clearly after he got yelled at by his wife.

Yeah, but this is the thing.

It's like, you knew, like, this is a massive moment for Haley.

And then to like, you know, that this will make headlines.

You know, that this is like not a supportive caption.

I don't He thinks that way though.

A hundred.

He's been in this industry for so long.

If he doesn't, then he needs to like

hand over the past have a better team around him.

What I was thinking at first was just like, okay, this is his humor.

This is their relationship.

Like they clearly, they clearly

have this like fun little

jokey relationship, right?

But then it's like the public perception about their relationship is that he hates her.

That's what most people are like speculating.

And so it's like, you're just feeding into it by putting a caption up like this.

It's like, it's fine if that's your relationship, but like,

careful.

His behavior online recently has been odd.

Yeah.

I think it's to put it kindly.

But then with his performance.

It's hard to talk shit because he did compliment my sweater once and was very lovely.

Very kind.

Very lovely to both me and my wife, Natalie.

So it's just, it's, it's odd behavior.

I just feel like he's been through a lot.

I don't know.

But yeah, I would.

Like, I would never give the like specifics.

Like, people say crazy things when they're mad and like for him to have given the specific words he said to her like and it's because I felt disrespected and I had to get even so then everyone's being like well why'd you feel disrespected?

What did Haley do to you?

Like you're just opening it up to so many more conversations that aren't about Haley on the cover of Vogue.

It just reminds it just it reads like you know like when you have an announcement of some kind and people will say, you know, that one time, like they reflect on a moment, you know, where it's you know they try to tell a story like he like he was but it's just like he's he's telling it as if like like people are going to pat him on the back or like this is a sweet moment like it reads from his mind that he thinks he's being sweet yeah

like he's showing personal growth or or whatever and oh by the way i'm really proud of my wife but yeah all it does is you know what

it's giving like you make it big you're accepting your oscar or whatever and you're like that one one professor back in college said I'd never make it.

And look at where I am.

So fuck you to that professor or like, thank you to that professor for lighting the, you know, the fire under my ass.

But it's like in this situation, Justin Bieber is the professor and he's her husband.

Yeah, it's crazy.

You know, you know that she got pissed and yelled at him.

And the reason why you just got a bunch of emojis is because he was like, fine, I'll just change it.

And he like was kind of a smart ass and was like, I'll just do emojis then.

Yeah.

Which like kind of makes it worse.

I know.

It makes it totally worse.

If that's what it is, it makes it way worse.

Because that's not an apology.

It's like, fine, I'll change it.

Whatever.

That was a defiant Justin

being a smart ass and like just putting emojis, which is basically like another.

Yeah.

And then you have the SISA of it all where he was like holding her hand and kissing her.

Haley was in the audience.

She was recording.

You know, I know that she is a huge fan of obviously the both of them.

They've worked together on, you know, a couple of of songs in their careers.

But that,

the way that Justin Bieber is around every other woman but his wife

is alarming.

The smile that lights up on his face when he is around any other woman but his wife is alarming.

Like, I

have never seen him interact with Haley publicly the way that he interacted with Sizza on stage in front of millions of people.

It's crazy.

I've been, this is a weird like comparison to make, but I've been been re-watching the last dance, the Michael Jordan documentary.

And for any last dance.

You're just getting to that?

I've watched it.

I watched it.

I had COVID when I watched it, so I didn't fully process.

And I watched the Knicks

game and got inspired.

But anyway,

I feel like Justin Bieber is at the same time Michael Jordan and Jerry Krause.

Like he is his own Jerry Krause.

And that

understand that reference.

For all you Last Dance

and any Bulls fans out here.

I remember Danny watching it.

Yeah.

He just needs a pippin.

You know what I'm really interested in?

Jojo Siwa and Chris Hughes' relationship because

they are together.

I mean, they just are at this point.

Like, they were photographed.

Physically.

I did speak with JoJo the other day.

I can confirm that she is

really happy.

Okay.

So whatever that means.

I mean, I think anyone posting a photo of a man's hand wrapped around your leg, yeah, seems like a hard launch to me.

You think that's a hard launch photo?

If I saw that from anyone, if I saw a man's veiny hand on someone's thigh, I would be like, they're together.

Do you think how you keep your car like tells everything about who you are?

I hope not.

I have six coffee cups in my car right now.

So I sure hope not.

Yeah, I don't agree either.

Chris Jenner seems to think it says everything about you.

It does speak to your organizational skills.

I'll give her that.

Yeah.

Like, I'm not an organized person.

Me either.

And your discipline, because it's like you get out of your car every day.

Do you want to grab the trash or do you want to leave it in there?

Do you have the discipline to grab it and throw it in the trash can or are you going to leave it in there because you're a little lazy?

It's a micro-discipline.

Nick still has the breast punk that I gave him to give you, Leia, that I never used in his trunk.

So Nick.

I don't know.

I have this issue where I will literally bring, so I'll drink a coffee on my way in, but I don't put it in a travel mug.

I just use a regular mug and i fully just bring that mug in my car and then it just stays in my car and i know it's psychotic

yeah that's why half the time i come in here i have a coffee stain on my shirt and i know it doesn't make sense and i know it's uh insane i've taken a roadie and a coffee mug yeah with a lid though no no but i do bring it inside when i get back home yeah i i don't do that and they stack up i literally have my entire pantry in my car and i'm aware it's a psycho thing to do but that's like my one thing that i've tried to change and I just cannot knock the habit of.

So Chris Jenner would probably think I'm an extremely disorganized, messy person.

And she may be right.

I did read somewhere though that the messier you are, it just means that you're more creative.

Period.

Oh my God.

Y'all love this.

Y'all love this game.

Where did you read that?

I don't know.

In your own notes app?

Did you write it yourself?

My therapist told me.

People are always like, people who smoke weed are way smarter than anyone who doesn't smoke weed.

People who don't do laundry are way more intelligent than people who do.

It's like, y'all are making shit up.

So it gets me through the you guys.

We have to do that.

People with messy cars are so creative.

Anyways, props to Chris Jenner.

Her new face.

Her new face is.

Have you seen her new face?

Yeah.

It's pretty impressive.

She's got a great face.

No notes.

Yeah.

The money she paid is money well spent and it looks incredible.

You know, it looks really great.

Yeah.

I feel bad for just the other like grandparents in Chris Jenner's grandchildren's lives.

Because you know that they don't look the same way that Chris Jenner does.

So, I feel like all of the kids are like, Grammy, Sally Lou's grandma doesn't look like you do, you know, like she's 80 and she looks 80.

You really think Chris Jenner is hanging out with other

people?

Who they go to school with, I would imagine.

I don't think she hangs out with them, but like who these kids go to school with, or if they go to their friend's house and they see a grand, you know, like that doesn't mean Chris Jenner's hanging out with them.

I just feel like wherever their kids go to school, I feel like they all have enough money to get that type of work if they wanted it.

I've never seen that goat of work before.

Yeah.

This was A ⁇ .

Yeah.

She set the standard.

Yeah.

Before we move on from Jenner Kardashian land, though, I do need to give a quick round of applause to Kim for graduating law school.

It wasn't law school.

What?

No, she graduated law school after six years.

It was like an online course.

I think she is allowed to like take the bar, but I don't think it was officially law school.

It was.

So rather than attending law school, Kardashian didn't graduate from college.

So she planned to do a four-year apprenticeship with a law firm in San Francisco and then take the bar in 2022.

That's allowed under California law, but COVID stretched the timeline.

She passed the so-called baby bar in December 21 after a fourth swing at the test.

In March of this year, she passed the multi-state professional responsibility exam.

A passing MPRE score is required before a person attempts to pass a bar in the United States.

Kardashian hasn't revealed yet when she will attempt to pass the California bar exam.

The two-day test is administered twice a year in February and July.

What's the baby bar?

Maybe it's just like the pre-test, like the PSAT.

I don't know.

I didn't go to law school.

I don't know.

I mean, props to her, though.

I mean, cool accomplishments.

Yeah.

The baby bar is a first-year law students exam required in California for students at unaccredited law schools or those studying law through alternative methods.

Yeah.

Whatever.

Okay.

She's, hey, she's doing the damn thing.

She is.

Yeah.

That's more than I did.

I didn't go to law school.

I didn't go to law school either, obviously.

All right.

Well, up next, our friends Max and Peter Murgatroyd join us to talk a little secret lives of Mormon wives.

And then following that, we'll get into the summer house finale and a little Atlanta housewives since Phaedra is back in town and on our screens once again.

Let's bring on Max and Puta.

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Your body and skin will thank you.

Max and PETA, welcome to the show.

How are you doing?

I think, PETA, you've been on one other time, right?

Max, your first time.

Yes.

Thanks for

finally having.

Finally letting him on.

He's been begging.

He's been knocking down the door.

Well, when I was dancing partners with PETA, there was speculation that Max and I were in a secret love affair.

So I had to put those rumors to rest.

Yeah.

Yes.

Is that real?

Maybe.

Well, I was pretty obsessed with him.

Yeah.

He's a handsome guy.

He's handsome.

We have him.

He's good looking.

Nice, nice relationship.

It was nice.

Yep.

Yeah.

Peter, did you, was there any part of you that thought that like Nick would win?

Or were you like, that's so sweet?

He's so sweet.

You could be honest.

You're putting Peter on the spot within 30 seconds.

Was I better than you thought I would be?

Yeah, no,

you were decent.

You weren't terrible at all.

I think your nerves just got the better of you.

Yeah, 100%.

I was way better after I got eliminated.

Right.

When we came back and did a little ditty again.

Yeah, you were better.

But you were

memorable.

And that's what's important.

There were a lot of great, great dancers whose lives you can't remember.

I honestly think most people would forget that I was on that show.

But thank you for saying, Max.

I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I appreciate the kind words.

Before we dive into some secret lives and what you guys have been up to, I do want to tell a very sentimental story with, you know, comes with a little bit of sadness.

And Peter, I think you know what I'm talking about.

But obviously, not too long ago, Nellie and I opened up and shared about our misfortunes when it came to the miscarriages uh that Nally experienced.

And upon the second, well, after Nally had her first miscarriage, my mom, who follows PETA on Instagram, was like, you know who you need to reach out to, you need to reach out to PETA because PETA, obviously, if you follow PETA sadly has experienced her own miscarriages and has been open, very open, and has shared her story on her social.

And so when we were at the doctor's office, finding out that Nally was beginning to miscarry again, I was literally in the doctor's office office and I was thinking, but I got to reach out to PETA.

You know, Nally was really going through it.

We've obviously talked about just how alone, you know, you feel when going through that process.

And I think he even like mentioned to our doctor, like, we've got this friend.

Yeah.

Oh, really?

And we should reach out to her.

Yeah.

That day.

Cause we're, yeah, we're in the our doctor's office and she's, you know, trying to, you know, say the right things and make us feel better.

And, you know, talked about like just like having a community.

And yeah, I brought PETA up and natalie had to we had to stop at shout out to cvs we had to stop and get uh some prescriptions for natalie and we get we leave the doctor's office we drive to cvs i'm in line and i see this blonde woman in front of me and i'm like man that looks a lot like pita but there's no way that's pita yeah but sure as that day

like coming out in my pajamas and slippers and my hair rolled up in a bun and you looked fine you looked fine uh but i was just like there's no way you know and sure as there you were and it just you know i'm not a very spiritual person but it seemed it was a very crazy it really felt like a moment and i could not believe it was a truly like one like a a very i don't even know how to describe it but like there's a lot of cvss and the fact that we ended up at the same cvs at the same time after talking about you're literally the one person in this universe i would wanted to run into in that moment so that i you know because i really didn't have the words you know, I really didn't know what to say to Natalie in that moment.

And, and, and really, it was just like my friend PETA.

And I, you know, and then we, we had talked, and I'm like, and I'm like, can you come out to the car?

And Peter came out to the parking lot and consoled Natalie and shared some, you know, very sentimental things.

And, and honestly, it was a huge, it was a huge help to both of us.

So it was a, it was a very beautiful moment.

It was great running into you.

And, you know, I don't know, you know, signs or whatever, but it was, it was a very special moment.

So anyways, thank you for for doing that for us but um of course i i like it was so such a special moment and so serendipitous is that the right word serendipitous yeah serendipitous great movie it was it was like i couldn't believe that you were behind me and i was actually thinking i remember saying to you i was like oh is she pregnant and then you were like no it's actually the opposite and i my face just i felt terrible for even you know saying is she pregnant when it was the opposite kind of thing and to be able look it's so hard when you're going through something like that because nothing's really going to make you feel better in that moment.

Like you're in it, you're in like the worst part of it.

And like for me, when we were going through it multiple times, like four times,

nothing he could really say was comforting to me because all I wanted.

was to try again the next month to try again.

And I couldn't even get it in my head that like, I need to relax.

I need need to just chill and wait for it to happen.

When it, when it's going to happen, it's going to happen.

So, you know, kudos to you, babe, for like, you know, even listening to what I had to say, because in that moment, you're just distraught, you're upset, you're sad, angry, like everything.

So, but I'm happy that I could say something that would maybe be comforting.

No, you did.

Yeah, you definitely.

It was, that was a tough moment for me.

And I think you kind of were just like, there's nothing that I can say to you.

And it was just like that comforting feeling of because i felt like people kept trying to say stuff to me and i was like it's not helping it's not helping that's not helping and then for you to just be like i can't say anything honestly like you just have to feel this and it was like oh thank god

yeah you're right thank you for that through this rough time yeah and just deal with it and and get on with it when you're ready too it's like everyone would say to me Peter, you're fine.

Don't worry about this one.

Like, just get over it.

You'll get pregnant soon.

And I was like, almost like, shut the fuck up like don't keep saying that to me just like let me cry for a whole day at least a day just like leave me alone well you now have three healthy baby boys

how is everything at home doing are you is it a mad house it's a it's utter chaos it's mad

it's like

herding chickens because two of them are obviously still in diapers and Shai is eight years old.

So he's like our little helper.

But I cannot believe i have we have three children how many months apart are the two youngest i've said like 13 months they're under under under 12 months actually under 13 months under 13 months we have a june and the july period june and july so yeah wow it was very unplanned and everybody's looking at me like i knew that this was gonna happen

a little bit above me yeah no it's actually funny though because we had a moment when i found out that i was pregnant again like three months postpartum and i had just started back dancing again i had my body back feeling you know i was feeling pretty much myself um we had started you know going on date nights again we had you know just been maybe had two you know but getting back into it and then bang pregnant again he cried like immediately in the bathroom We were both together just in shock thinking, how are we going to do this?

Because because we were in an apartment we didn't have enough room um you know we needed to move we were just i was in middle of the season he was crying because he's he knows what's up happening next you know and then i was crying because i was like day three had to be postponed for like another year and a half you know so

yeah so it was like we were shell-shocked but obviously super happy as well.

It was just like a juxtaposition of emotions, just like, oh my gosh, how how are we going to do this?

But it really is the universe really telling you, you don't get to pick, you know, you don't get to plan life, so to speak.

Yeah, exactly.

I wanted to say I had that when we just moved to Malibu,

it was in the heels of, I think, one of the first miscarriages.

And at that point, it was already two, too many.

And we just moved to get the hell away from whatever space area we wanted, you know, the ocean.

I mean how lucky we are to even talk about moving to having moved to malibu at some point anyway it was a fantastic experience but i remember first week we got there i'm in the park with with shy and this lady comes up and she just started talking and she had two kids and that's she said the same thing she's like when you know we were trying to actively trying to have them didn't work didn't work didn't work ivf didn't work decided screw it went to a vacation and then after that got pregnant back to back and it seems like it was our moment, although that lady is no one that I knew, we've never seen her again.

But it felt that way.

But then, again, the second part that you guys just said, it has nothing to do with any of this.

It's about you and when you get over it.

And it's so hard to witness and see from the side that realization that I can't, I'm completely powerless.

Everybody around me is also powerless.

I can't get anybody to help me with this because it's just about how strong the person is and so all the kudos to all the ladies that go through all the stuff because it's literally just you by yourself yeah how did you guys uh work on on on staying connected through all that trauma obviously because you know when when couples experience any kind of trauma it's very easy to disconnect and and moments when you don't know what to say you know i think often like us guys tend to just not say anything at all.

And I remember when Natalie experienced her first miscarriage, I had this kind of epiphany of just realizing just how quickly it is to disconnect in the, in those, in those moments when you have these very difficult times.

But obviously you guys got through it and made it to the other side.

But how were you able to do that?

Oh my gosh.

That's a, I think it's a tough question.

We went through so much shit, like with him being in Ukraine at the time of the war as well.

I was having a miscarriage like during that time.

There was so much shit piled on top of us that we have been through.

And I'm really proud to say that we're still here married with three kids and super happy.

Like, I think that's a really big sort of pat on the back for us because, yeah, those moments were extremely difficult and isolating.

And where I don't want to leave the house because I don't want to see anybody.

I don't want to be happy.

He's trying to make me happy.

And he was.

amazing, but also it's hard for him too because he doesn't know what to say.

He can't say, babe, we'll try again later because it's just, nothing seems to work.

We're also part of a generation that started to be, you know, happy couples themselves.

And a lot of our friends are getting pregnant and having babies.

And we're celebrating them quietly, not celebrating at home.

And so it's also like,

it's not a pat on the back.

It's more like, that's what couples have to overcome.

And it may seem like, well, what do you have to worry about?

Look at your life.

It's beautiful.

It's sparkly and stuff.

But it's the emotional, you know, behind closed doors.

Nobody really knows what you go through.

I want to say what kept us together, I think it more so exposed the us as a couple that is a couple for the right reasons.

We didn't just get together for, and I think that's the difficulty nowadays, is that people get together for the beautiful times, for in the beautiful moments.

We never.

You know, it's rare that you have a near-death experience and then you're like, oh my God, this is my person, right?

Usually it's in a beautiful setting.

You guys have a gorgeous date and you fall in love.

When you experience these type of things is when you find out if it's really the person for you, you know, and I think that we found out about each other a lot, but most importantly, about,

I found out about me towards Peter.

you know, exactly what my feelings are, exactly how I feel about, you know, my role for the rest of our life together.

is a without a doubt person that I want to spend that

lifetime with.

And so it made me realize a lot of things about myself.

It was very hard for me to be nurturing because I'm like this tough kind of like, get up, let's go.

Let's just 10 more push-ups.

You'll be fine.

You know what I mean?

Patting the back.

I literally remember saying to you, like, I need time to sit in my bed and fucking cry.

Like, just leave me alone for a second.

Don't bring me anything.

Just let me cry.

because the pain was too great to just get up and going again you know and then celebrate somebody else who which i did many times go and celebrate somebody who was pregnant but it was very it was tough from the inside but but it's the it's the it's the reality it's real love i i just want to point it out you know if it's real yeah it'll survive all of this ups and downs

But to answer your question too, like we're also still trying to figure out things as well.

Now with three small children and finding time for each other, this is literally why we're in Vegas by ourselves for two nights to get away, to not have kids at the door and to spend time because we realize we do disconnect a ton over the past two years.

We really have had to work on it because the kids are coming first.

We have to separate it at some point and say, they're fine.

Leave them with the nanny for two days.

We're going to go away and do our own thing.

And we're still working on that.

Yeah.

Well, that's, uh, I appreciate you guys sharing that.

And I agree with you, Max, too.

I, we, we've shared our initial honeymoon story where we got turned down at Turks and Caicos, but it was uh,

yeah, we don't have to get into it, but we ended up having a lovely honeymoon two weeks later in Puerto Rico.

But it, but to that point, in that moment, I actually like, at the time, it was like, I can't believe this is happening.

And Nanny was crying and like River was three months old.

And I'm like, oh my God, this is supposed to be like fresh off of the high of our wedding yeah but like that was the first moment you know we just got married so but it was the first moment where i felt like we had to come together as a family we had to step up like you know it's and honestly i i wouldn't trade that moment for anything because like

you know it's like to your point it's it's it's easy to go and have a good time

on a beach and celebrate you know the good times but you know uh when you when you choose to come together during trauma or during disappointment or you know and things like that, you really feel like you have a partner.

So, yeah,

it's weird how you look back and reflect on those moments versus like when it's happening in real time.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, there's been a lot of stuff, but we're still here.

What are you guys doing in Vegas other than connecting?

Are you gambling?

Are you going to shows?

What are you guys doing?

We'll have a little gamble for sure.

I said to him when we were checking in, we got to do blackjack.

I love blackjack.

I'm just not a gambler.

We're not big actors.

I may look it, but Uncle Val

is more for the casino guy.

I'm not a gambler.

But I've

this is our stomping grounds.

Peter and I share a lot of

fun time in Vegas.

Like, just we used to work here on and off, you know, dance shows, and he was choreographing Le Rev and stuff like that.

So shout out Winner,

I heard there's some sort of like

EDM festival going on there right now.

Is that true?

Or do you guys hear anything?

We wouldn't know.

We're not going to look at it.

I went to that before, though.

That was crazy.

I was.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

She did so much stuff before our time together.

I can't wait.

Do you guys follow the casting of Dancing with the Stars?

You guys keep up with that too much?

They recently announced Alex Earl

and Robert Irwin.

Yeah.

Any thoughts on those two as the season approaches?

Robert Irwin is a front-runner.

I'm going to say it right now.

Yeah.

As soon as he pulled out shirtless, he's so nice i mean

before the shirtless in my opinion yeah

does he even have to be good at dancing to win no not really yes no yes a little bit he doesn't have to be the best i'm gonna say i'm gonna say the downfall here is that this is like he's a he's top he's in the final he's in the final no but if he walks out and just flat lines into the, you know?

Yeah, if you flatline and you're not giving it your all and you're not trying, you know, yes, people can see that and won't vote, but he's not the guy.

He's definitely going to try.

He's a professional.

Like he comes from a very successful family.

He has to show improvement, right?

He just has to get better each week.

Yes.

It's a perfect character to do that.

I think he already has the foundation.

I'm just saying, I think he's taken some dance lessons.

If he didn't, I would be surprised and shocked.

Like, bro, you're already on it.

Go take some cha-cha lessons.

Well, I'm sure Bindi has told him what it's like what you have to do to prepare i mean she won the show but she was also there i'm just saying practice practice like he has to have some physical you know i did that is there anyone from secret lives of mormon wives who you would want to see

uh taylor for sure yeah yeah i

keep up with all these i would love for her to do it i'm kind of a big fan yeah i'm a big fan of her too i'm sure one of them on you think so yeah i think so i think the crocodile well i am great It's a very popular show right now.

Max, have you?

Are you?

Did you?

I know Pete has watched.

Have you been watching?

Have you watched at all?

Do I have a choice?

It's on the giant screen TV every time I pass by.

So now are you like, are you, are you one of those husbands who like, yes, like, once you tune in and you start having an opinion, and then like, are you, are you checked out?

No, immediately.

No, he watches from the kitchen secretly.

Like, you can see him like doing one of these ones.

I keep on.

But I'm feeding my, I'm feeding number two, Rio, and he's like, he's watching a little bit, and I'm watching a little bit.

Crazy.

But if it hooks me, then I come in.

I'm like, I can't believe she said that.

Three episodes ago, she said such stuff.

But with that show specifically, I'm like, I'm just having so many,

you know, it's so intriguing just because it's from, you know, it's about religion-based.

You know what I mean?

It's just,

it's not computing with me.

Well, you guys, you guys actually, you're fairly familiar with the Mormon religion.

A lot of your dancing partners and other professionals,

the Mormon community has a strong dancing legacy.

That's why probably 47% of those Mormon wives definitely have some kind of dance background.

So I wouldn't be surprised that there's some, you know, you don't like her character, but you're going to see some dancing.

You know what I mean?

So I think there's going to be that type of casting.

Peter,

who's your favorite and least favorite of the group of women?

Oh, well, my opinion changed this season.

My favorite is Taylor, just because she's so raw.

She's so authentic.

She puts everything out there and really doesn't let the show hinder her with like her vulnerability.

And I think other people are definitely holding back in their personal lives, like what is actually going on.

And I would say my least favorite right now is Demi

because she's come out like the villain.

It's just, yeah.

Yeah.

It's really tough because like this usually, you know, like we get to meet a lot of these characters on TV.

A lot, we, you know, a lot of the people we talk about, we, we don't.

And you're, so we're usually just talking about their edit, you know, we recognize it's an edited show.

So we're really talking about characters.

But we, you know, Nellie and I have really gotten to know these women pretty well.

And like, Demi is someone we've gotten to know and meet, and we've enjoyed our interactions with Demi.

So sometimes it's like a little shocking.

It's been tough to watch this season

to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I'm sure because obviously I've never met her and my opinion could be completely swayed in the other direction if I did.

But her edit this season is giving like, I want to cause trouble.

We've also gotten to know.

the other women as well.

And

they would say, this is not an edit.

This is the.

Well, I mean, it's hard to say it's an edit when it's like just the things coming out of her mouth.

You know, it's it's like after Jen's apology video and her being like, I don't buy it.

I was like, that was harsh.

Yeah.

I was like, she's just like, man, man, she seems to be really struggling with her mental health.

And like, man, she's like pregnant.

And, like, oh boy.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

I know.

And then you hear about this, like, the Vanderpump Villa.

No, I'm just saying, reality TV, I will always hold my head on one sentence.

I was told that very late in the the game.

Yeah.

If I was said that in my mid to late 2000s, my career may have been different.

But I was told, like, yeah, you know, it's about the edit.

But if you didn't say it, we don't have it to use.

You know, so it was like, man, that's so correct.

That's so correct.

If you don't say it, if you say it, leaving it up to the editors to pick and choose what they want you to be represented by.

I'm like, well, why don't you choose, you know, 30 hours of me being nice?

You chose me being this way.

So I sympathize with the types that,

oh, you know, why are they portraying you as a villain?

You're so nice in person.

I'm like, Nick, you know me.

I'm very nice in person.

But I've also said it.

I did say it on TV anyway.

I feel that way about those type of cats.

Yeah.

I think for the most part, that's true.

We were having this conversation with some friends earlier today.

And I've said this a million times, but I think more people actually are made to look better and more charming than they are in real life than actually made to look worse.

I think honestly, Bachelor is maybe more guilty of things because, like, to your point, Max, when you like a lot of what we're seeing this season with Demi, we're literally seeing her in a confessional, we're seeing the words come out of her mouth.

Like, we are watching it.

There's lots of times, for example, depending on the edits, like Bachelor is notorious for you'll see someone walking and having an interaction and you hear their voice, right?

And so it's like, it's like a, so, and they could be if they could have been saying that about someone else three weeks ago and a pickup.

And then it's like, okay, that, that's context that's been completely changed.

But when it comes to this show, there's very little of that.

There's, you're, you're seeing the words coming out of these women's mouth.

And it's, um, and I think it's, I also think it's a lot harder when it comes to a recurring, you know, we're in season two, right?

I mean, we didn't know know if season one was, you know, when season one came out, you know, you don't know how successful it's going to be.

But when you have a recurring cast and you have an ensemble cast, it's a lot harder for a production company to get away with changing storylines or putting things out of context because you're going to have characters call it out, right?

You're, you know, if you're, if you're screwing over half the cast, they're going to be like, this is bullshit and you'll lose your cast, right?

Bachelor gets away with it because it's, it's 30 new people every season.

You know, if one or two people are made to look bad, everyone else who's looking good is like, yeah, this is who they are and things like that.

But when it comes to this, with this show, I think it's easier to believe that what they're showing us is most more honest than not.

And if anything, there are things we don't get to see because they're being taken out of the show.

And there's actually more tea and more things that could be exposed that are not being exposed.

Totally.

I mean, in talking on that point, I was thinking, was there more context to when Denis ran to her husband and said that he put his hands on her?

Because I was like, what I saw, like, I would never run to my husband and say, this guy put his hands on me, because that sentence is so big and so

it implies such a such a force, you know, and I just did not agree with that whatsoever.

And then I was wondering, I was like, wait, something else must have happened because it couldn't have been the little poke in the side that he did to her, because that's insane.

Well, the big question is, is the thing that happened, what happened in Vanderpump Villa with this Marciano guy, and all, you know, and that, and that was filmed before even season two was filmed.

And we've heard this from the women, you know, accused Demi of playing chess and being, you know, attempting to be multiple steps ahead.

And it's, it's just the more you watch this season with Demi like coming after Taylor, coming after Jen, trying to like, you know, it's, you know, coming after Jess, like, you know, the, the, the Jay-Z style stuff.

Well, like, it's just like the way.

I forgot what episode, I don't know if it was eight or nine or whatever.

And when Demi's like crying and like yelling at the rest of the women and being like, I'm the most loyal person in this group.

No one is as good of a friend like me.

And like, this is following her trying to get Jess kicked off the show because Jess wouldn't, Jess wouldn't basically, Jess was willing to take less money than Demi.

And Demi wanted all the women to collude together to get more money.

This was after

the Jay-Z styles and her kind of talking shit about Jesse's business.

And it's just like, where's the, I mean, again, I hate saying this because I've really enjoyed my time with Demi, but like, it's just like, it's hard to defend what we're seeing here.

We've heard, we've heard from Macy and Michaela.

They accused Demi of last season being willing to fake an affair with Dakota.

Which I saw Brett responded to that and kind of said that all of the producers, I guess, had asked like, what are we going to do for the finale?

And all the women were kind of throwing out these like.

crazy ideas and all of them were kind of jokes as Brett recalled.

And so Demi being like, oh, I should have this like alleged affair with dakota implying like we're all swingers like maybe that would be so fun maybe which i could give them that

i could give them that i don't know i don't i don't know if i would joke about that but it's possible it's maybe it was all jokes but it's it's been tough watching to me yeah but i will say that pregnancy roulette was cruel it was in episode nine where they all were in louisiana and they all took pregnancy tests two of them knowing they're pregnant pregnant.

Layla was like, I have this fun game.

It's pregnancy roulette.

Demi's been so open about her fertility struggles.

And Demi even says before they play the game, like, this feels cruel.

Like, I don't know if I want to do this.

Very cruel.

Because she hasn't seen a positive pregnancy test in since her last child.

And she's been wanting that so much.

And so they play the game, and there's one, and she gets emotional.

And then she pulls it, and it's pregnant on the one that she pulls.

And it's like, this Michaela and Macy are the two.

It's not hers.

It's not hers.

It's Michaela and Macy's who are pregnant.

So

bad.

That's so fucked up.

So messed up.

That's so cruel.

That's so bad.

That's so just like an awful game to play with someone who's been so open about their struggles with getting pregnant.

To be like, oh, how funny would this be if you like pulled out a positive pregnancy test?

Let's get your reaction.

So that was hard to watch.

That was definitely team to me on that.

That was a cruel game.

Honestly, like, maybe some of her like

ways that she's dealing with people this season is due to all of this you know because when you're trying to have a baby i don't know i'm just thinking of the reasons why yeah

so quickly like when you're so desperate and in that desperation mode maybe she's just gone off the rails a little bit and um

you know personality yeah maybe maybe maybe that's it but like her

Her confidence in herself to call herself the like the way she's like she knows she's called herself the fan favorite.

She's called herself the most loyal.

You know, she's just very, she's quick, very quick to be loud about herself.

Like, but those are those are the types, you know, when

they have to scream it out about themselves.

Chances are you don't feel that way about yourself either, you know?

The part I was most uncomfortable watching back, and I, you know, because I've watched it a few times now, was when, you know, the secret Sunday or what I think what what it was where one of the one of the things i randomly accused brett of of cheating on to me yeah uh and then they had the off mic moment and before the off mic moment where here she is trying to talk to brett about this accusation and then she throws out a bunch more rumors about her husband is a way almost to deflect yeah her being like there's been so many rumors about you like that one that you cheated on your first wife the one that you were like a drug addict and you went to rehab the one about you it's like and you can tell like brett is this like what are you saying why are you why would you say that on tv like it was like really uncomfortable and the more i hear the women say she's playing chess not checkers and things like that it just kind of makes you wonder if like if to me is this very

calculated in a way that's like seems kind of malicious but i want to give her the benefit of the doubt because again i've we've i've she's always been lovely to me i don't know i actually hate saying that because you know, just be, I guess, because I guess just because she's lovely to me doesn't mean anything is not true, but I don't, I don't want to talk shit on a friend or anything, but right, yeah, it's like, damn, it's like, uh, but also it's your job now, Nick.

You need to realize, yeah, you gotta keep your

neutrality, you gotta keep it real, you know, I gotta keep it real.

It is hard to watch some of the things, it's also part of the cast.

They also feel some kind of way about these.

So, this is where I come in, and she's, she's like, after, what's it, 11 decade plus years of us together, she's like, you know what, stay away.

Because if I come in, then I'm still like, wait a minute, did she really mean it?

Or is this like a ploy or is this a plot?

Like you said, chess checkers.

Yeah.

For me, yeah, you don't make it.

You take the fun out of it.

Exactly.

Yes.

And so I try not to ruin it for her.

But like I come in, I'm like, but you know,

the casting.

It's somebody casted these people.

2025, we know how to do that professionally.

There's a line of people that I will look bad on TV, whatever that means.

I'll play the villain.

I'll be the blah, blah, blah.

I'll say outrageous things because it seems like it's easy, you know.

But I think it's a strategic sort of casting where anybody can be portrayed another way.

I mean, this is all.

Well, the villain is a ton character.

The villain is a big place to hold.

That's

a star.

It's a star.

That's right up there with Taylor, you know?

She's competing with Taylor.

Every Batman is a joker, you know what I'm saying?

No, that's really true.

And Demi's playing

the role very well.

It's interesting.

Obviously, Jesse was on our show last week.

Natalie asked Jesse if

she noticed that Jesse wasn't wearing her wedding ring.

And

Natalie had an excellent question, props, by the way, and asked Jesse if Jordan, her husband,

is the type of role model that that she would want her daughters to look up to.

Something like that?

I think she only has one daughter, but yeah.

The type of man that she would want her daughter to.

And she didn't, she did.

She said no.

She said no and didn't really even think too hard on it.

I think we're going to find out a lot more about this relationship in season three.

I've heard from a very reliable source close to the situation, and I'm not going to say what it is, but what I will say, if what I heard is true, again,

regardless of what this rumor is or not true about Marciano, whether Jesse actually like cheated on Jordan with Marciano, not that it's ever justified to do that, but I think

if what I hear is true and if that is revealed in season three, I think people are going to quickly forget whatever Jesse did

to Jordan.

And I think they're going to hate him.

Wow.

We'll have a new villain.

Yeah.

It's dark.

It's it if if it made me not like him.

oh my gosh isn't that funny how you have like ironic and not funny i don't know what the vernacular is like you just you you turn one wrong and you out wrong it with something

you know and then it perpetuates the tv and the series i mean that's that's the way you do it you you know right type of cast it gives you everything i just you know what what is what is to come of these characters like what's the next step for

i mean

they've all i don't know i mean they're they're very i mean as a show show that covers these shows, right?

Like, I have a ton of respect for all of them because to your point, PETA, like, to play the villain is not easy.

And all these women, you know, say what you want about their lives or whatever.

And it's so easy to judge people from afar.

You guys know as much as anyone.

You have friends and you guys have been through your shit.

And we've all been through shit.

Like, no one's life is perfect.

It's all messy.

We all try to figure it out.

But these women are willing to truly show it all on television and they don't back down and they keep going.

And it's like, it's almost as if they're just warming up because I hear is as crazy as season two is that season three is out of control compared to season two.

Are they already filming season three?

I think they're just done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, isn't it going to come out of the year?

So much, so much edgy television is coming out of Mormon Utah.

Truly, there's a lot.

I don't know.

I think, yeah, when you have when you have a very devout devout religion that brings a lot of shame to people,

people need outlets, you know?

And I think I honestly, you know, it's, I think, I think a lot of people have talked about like what makes this show so unique or what makes, you know, you got Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which is, you know, for us, one of the best housewives franchises,

because those characters are so compelling.

I feel like there's just like an element of like, I think, especially for the secret lives of Mormon Wives and Mom Talk, you know, you have these young women, these moms who, you know, it sounds like, you know, they all, they all have their trauma and they all have been shamed and guilted and told what's good or what's bad.

And it must be very liberating for them to be able to speak for themselves.

You know, like even Jen and Zach, I mean, you know, who, by the way, again, we have that on the show tomorrow.

You know, you went from a relationship season one where you, Zach kind of just very much demonstrated this very, you know, toxic masculinity, this very, like, very stereotypical, you know, man from a very conservative community.

And listen, tomorrow, you can find out, you can judge for yourself what you think about the relationship.

But what is clear is that like Zach has flipped a switch, you know, in terms of like how he's approached it.

But I can't help but wonder.

it's if it's because Jen feels more empowered to enforce a boundary.

She feels, I think, more empowered to say, no, I'm going to do it my way now.

You know, I'm, I'm the breadwinner here.

I'm the star, you know, and, and not like in a cocky way, but like, again, you're talking about a community where men are dominant, you know, where we're literally this community of people.

You're told that like a man is in charge of the family and a women's role is to like women's have, women have roles, you know, a very specific role.

And that is to like follow the man, you know?

And so here you have these women who've been empowered by this this show and by their success, and they can finally stand up.

They've they have found a voice, and I feel like that voice gives them that confidence to show us who they really are.

Because, in a way, is as much drama as it I'm sure has brought their lives, it has freed them from a life of almost, you know, is that they're bound.

They, I feel, yeah, it's kind of fascinating that way, you know, yeah, but

it's an appeal because so much of the show is based around religion and sex talk.

And I know that's just such a black and white thing to say, but it truly is.

Sex is a huge, huge part of the show.

That's what they talk about 90% of the time.

And that's what people want to watch, the juxtaposition of the strong religion, the devout Mormon faith, and then them having a sex party.

It's a big change.

Yeah.

And it's also the same type, but maybe you're right because

they keep it such a taboo to talk about growing up.

It's like, yeah, there's an age that you, and then with that one person chosen for the rest of your life, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then to your point, maybe you just feel free and they go off.

I just, I don't know.

I find it.

It's fascinating.

It's fascinating because

you can take the devout route and you can take that through line.

You can take the other route.

and like the promiscuous part of it and that through line and then you can pick and choose again, going back to the other point.

You can pick this type of

sound effect or this type of, what is this, on TF or OTF, like on the fly interview and insert it.

But I like that they have, they can be both.

That's what I like to see.

Like they, they can still go to church if they want to and do the other things, the promiscuous things too.

That's what I want to see because I believe you should be able to have both.

Yeah, no, it's you're it's an excellent point, Peter.

They have really said, I'm gonna, which i respect as someone who grew up very catholic and conservative is like you can still you can still have a connection to your faith and just you know even if you don't follow all the rules that like let's be honest some man or some person a few hundred or a few thousand years ago certainly not the beginning of time decided to write in a book and it's like you know what i'm just gonna not do that and you know what maybe maybe i'll still might be good you know it's just like i i love how they're kind of redefining what their faith means to them yeah it's just fascinating to watch.

And I think we should all be grateful for all these women

for their honesty.

I mean,

it's incredible television.

And, you know, whether we criticize what we see on these episodes or, you know, things or we're shocked by what comes out of their mouth, I'm still very grateful for their willingness to do that.

Because if we're going to sit down and be entertained by this, yeah, you can judge the behavior, but I think you have to, you know, judging the person is

harder to do.

Unless you're Janet from the Valley, because then it's that's harder.

I'm just kidding.

Are you watching The Valley at all?

I am.

Yeah.

Isn't Janet the worst?

I mean, again, I think I have another episode or two to watch, but yeah, Janet has something.

And we literally live in the same neighborhood

area as them.

Oh, funny.

Have you seen them out?

I have not.

It's just the...

the weirdest thing.

I haven't seen one of them.

But...

And we're that air warm lineup every day.

So so that is that is chaos that i cannot

no i think i think i see jax oh you've seen jax we go to jacks's bar sometimes which is cool oh really yeah okay yeah

good yeah it is it's great to watch a game yeah it's good like sporty thing you know okay

but they go on to problem games talk about problems oh

yo well Max and Peter, it's been great catching up.

We'll let you get back to your romance

in Vegas.

Why don't you share it with my audience and plug?

And anything else you guys want to plug away?

I think we are fully enjoying the parenting at the moment.

I have my vodka I'm very proud of.

I don't know how pluggy I can get with this, but it's

an incredible product that I'm very, very proud of.

It's, you know, in alcohol industry, it's very difficult, and especially nowadays.

to have something that's moving in a positive direction.

It's a big pat in the back watching Kira with

her skincare line and

what she's doing with that company is incredible.

We're just enjoying every day

and then see what happens next.

Season 35 with Dancing with the Stars coming up.

34 actually.

34, we got that wrong.

It seems like 147.

So, you know, you know,

but yeah, what happens with that?

Max, would you ever come back as a professional on Dancing with the Stars?

Yes.

Okay.

Because I always joke with with people that like i'm just a really hard worker but my wife is the star of the family and i didn't know that when i met her uh she was just a humble uh servant of the medical industry

but i have i've uh

i i talked to the powers that be and i'm like not yet not yet but someday you're gonna want to cast my wife on dancing with the stars

and so i believe it i would be honored now

if you would you know you know i don't know if i want to

take it i'll take it he's

a good, you know, it would be only right.

It is.

You know what it takes.

Yeah.

You know, you've been in the trenches.

You've been with a nice one.

I'm going to try to get that one.

Wait, actually, I don't know.

I don't know if I can.

Have there ever been, has there anyone like done a second tour of Dancing with the Stars?

What do you mean?

Has anyone done it twice?

Like if Nellie got casted, could we be a husband and wife duo?

Even though I've done it before?

If it was an old-star season, we've had people come back for old stars, but that was the only time.

I mean, I could could be like that.

I'm very forgettable.

No one would be like, they wouldn't even remember that I was on it the first time.

We'll just cut out everything we talked about in the beginning.

Yeah.

You do.

You're memorable.

But yes, if Natalie went on, you know, I don't know.

I don't know if, I don't know if I want to, you know, some of those, some of those guys, I don't know.

They got, they got some bad reps.

I'm just kidding.

But you, Max, I would, I would be.

I would take great care of Natalie.

I would take great care of Natalie.

All right.

A lot of fun.

We're going to call it now.

We're going to have to go.

One day we'll share the stars, Max.

All right, you two.

Go have fun in Vegas.

Thanks for coming on.

I appreciate you.

Thank you guys.

Thank you so much.

Love you guys.

All right.

Take care.

Bye.

Bye.

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Before we move on, is there any

scenes from the final episodes we haven't really touched on?

I mean, we have Demi yelling at Taylor's mom, which that was

just a crazy scene.

It's just like this whole.

It's one thing to have beef with someone, but to have beef with someone's mom.

I mean, okay, I will say, Leanne showing up.

Yeah.

Like,

you know, I would never fight rivers battles as much as like i mean when she's old enough to fight them herself obviously i was gonna say there

to walk in front of my wife

yeah

no when she's able to fight her own battle she will fight her own battles but i them doing the flashback to like yeah her calling whitney and being like why aren't you at Taylor's baby shower and then yeah her showing up with the gift and then sitting there to like argue back and forth with Demi it's like Taylor and Demi have never been that close of friends like I don't think it was worth it for Leanne to get into it with Demi.

Yeah.

I think it, I mean, it only made Demi look worse.

So maybe that was there.

I just don't know what the fuck Demi is talking about when it comes to Taylor.

Taylor.

I mean,

it's the deflection.

I'll say this: you know, here's a, here's a, here's a story about Taylor.

I have interviewed a lot of reality TV stars on this show.

Hundreds.

I don't know how many.

Many.

Taylor Frankie Paul is the only person who, before I interviewed her, said, ask me anything.

You can go as hard as you want.

I'm, you know, she's like, don't, don't hold back.

And she said it in a way where she was like, yeah, I'll just, you know, she like, she was up for the challenge in a way.

You know, she really has nothing to hide.

Sure, she can be messy.

Yes, she can be a little toxic by her own admission.

She's far from a perfect person.

You know what I'm saying?

She truly is a reality TV star in its truest form, but she is like thoughtful of her peers.

She shares the spotlight with her peers.

She's a good person.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

And she, yeah, she, like, again, she shares the spotlight where these stories that we're hearing about Demi.

from, you know, her talking shit about Jesse's business to like trying to throw Jesse under the bus when negotiating season two, just out of nowhere going after Taylor and just like throwing these like accusations her way that just don't really add up.

It's just like, I, it's weird.

I think this is what it is.

I think that in order to feel like she's queen bee, there always needs to be a common enemy.

And so season one, it was Whitney, but now Whitney has come back and she's being like so chill.

So it's hard to continue putting Whitney in that role.

Jen has kind of backed out because of her mental health, but even then Demi tried to, you know, be like, I don't buy it when she sent that video.

But now it's like, okay, who else is there left to make common enemy number one?

And it's Taylor because Taylor is, you know, has

all the drama with Dakota and is messy.

And it's like, but people aren't backing her this time.

And she's just confused because it's like.

That's a great, that's a great point, Leia.

When you kind of follow those crumbs, it was like first she tried to go after, I don't know which was first, but it was like, she tried to go after Jesse, didn't land.

She tried to go after Jen, didn't land.

And then she goes after Taylor, Taylor, didn't land.

And it's almost as if that moment at the end of the season where she's crying to the rest of the women being like, I would never act this way.

It's just almost like a projection of like the frustration, the tears came from a place that her plan wasn't working.

Yeah.

In a way.

If you really think about it, is Demete up for the challenge of Taylor?

Clearly not.

I don't think anyone is.

That's one person I would never fuck with.

But you know why you don't fuck with someone like Taylor?

She's unafraid.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, she is not trying to be perfect.

She doesn't even really care about being the most liked.

I mean, she has a ton of critics and she's just doing it.

She is comfortably herself and authentically herself.

So that's not the type of person you want to go up against in reality TV.

Well, I think even Layla is.

Taylor's got nothing to lose.

Yeah.

Layla's even catching on to it.

And it's like Layla's so scared of Demi, but it's like in a battle between Demi and Taylor.

It's like, I'm switching sides.

Like I'm going to Taylor.

Like I'm jumping off this ship as it's sinking.

Taylor is like the Tom Cruise and Mission Impossible

of the Mormon lives.

Like, she's going to do the stunts.

Like, if it's anyone versus Tom Cruise and Mission Impossible, like, I'm going to pick Tom Cruise.

And in the way that I'm going to pick Taylor, because she'll do it and she'll win.

Yeah.

That's how I feel.

No, I mean, it's, it's, it's really incredible.

I also just shout out to sourdough.

Yeah.

I,

well, you know, sourdough has been a big part of my life in 2025.

Leia, look up the health benefits of sourdough relative to regular bread.

Because I don't know.

I just, I have, I have swapped out all bread and replaced it with only sourdough.

And I got to say, I'm feeling.

You know?

It's easier to digest.

Okay.

So it's primarily due to the fermentation process.

It's easier to digest, supports gut health, and may help regulate blood sugar levels.

It also contains more beneficial nutrients and may improve nutrient absorption.

Why are we fucking with other types of bread then?

Well,

you know, I'm 44 years old, going on 45, and the fact that I just discovered how delicious, not to just discovered, but I would eat sourdough like if it was like offered as an option.

Is this like part of the portfolio of breads?

Be like, hey, you know, I'll fuck with sourdough today, you know, but like tomorrow I'll do like a multi-grain.

Yeah.

But like given its taste.

Coupled with its health benefits, like why would you do anything else?

Just sourdough all the time.

I agree.

A grilled cheese on sourdough whoo it's one of the best things you can have burger sourdough oh i don't think you can have a sourdough pizza yeah maybe not i i think that they do make sourdough pizza though sourdough pizza yeah i do believe macy over whitney oh with her sourdough

mate macy claims that uh whitney took her sourdough starter yeah and whitney says it's uh a lie and the other way around

i believe macy in all situations like if any of these women are up against Macy, I believe Macy.

Yeah.

She seems like a, I believe, like, Michaela and Macy, I believe.

But I am confused, like, why, I mean, I'm not confused.

I get it.

But I'm like, Michaela's really holding strong to the fact that she will never be friends or forgive Whitney.

I respect it.

I love Whitney, but I respect it.

What I love about it is that, like, it really seems like Michaela has really found her voice and she's.

found it through hating Whitney.

And she seems, honestly, at least from season one, like just healthier.

Like she's like, seems like a healthier version of herself.

And I just never seen hate of that degree be so beneficial to one person.

And so, I don't know.

It's beautiful.

She really, I think it's also like, you're just allowed, you're allowed to just not fuck with someone.

And I think Michaela just does not fuck with Whitney.

And she's like, I'm not going to just pretend I do for TV.

I don't like you.

The only thing that, you know, that Michaela is going to have to acknowledge at some point is that like she cares deeply about Whitney because you can't hate someone that much and not give a fuck about them.

Yeah, you'd be a different, you know, so

you know, it's more that, yeah, there is that.

Yeah.

Oh, and then there was the whole CMA's drama with Lola, which we saw play out in real time.

And then we saw Natalie, Justin, and Sierra on the show in episode eight.

And I'm not there.

That's a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Nick, we were cut out of that.

How do you feel?

You know, in the spirit of Taylor Frankie Paul, I am happy to share in the attention

of the success of

my family.

So, no problem.

We got the signage on the show.

I think I was on maternity.

You know, we got a plug.

Yeah, that's true.

It was a little jump scare.

Anyways, it was a great season.

I'm sure we'll continue to talk about it as these women continue to perform on social media.

Hopefully, there is more to come.

I think there will be.

Excited to see it.

I hope you guys all join us in the ride.

The summer house finale was, you know, again, great season.

Once again, shout out to Lexi who carried this season.

She was fantastic.

One of the better rookie seasons for a Bravo star.

She stood on business and she had to do it all on her own.

You know how intimidating it is to enter that house, a veteran cast of friends who, like, let's just be honest, were a little mean girl to her.

I think this was a terrible season for Sierra.

Jesse,

I mean, I don't know.

Jesse's just kind of proven himself to be an unserious man, giving boy who, you know, just like lives off these semantics of like, you know, why don't we keep talking about my character when it's just like, well, like, then stop doing what you're doing.

On a reality show.

Flirting with a.

Yeah, we're on a reality show.

It's like, oh, okay.

If you're following Bravo, you, I'm sure you've seen the news that's been reported everywhere that Jesse Solomon and Erica Jane hooked up following the table.

Watch what happens live.

Says a source.

At this point, it's giving Jesse Solomon has been reaching out to the press and telling everyone that he hooked up with Erica Jane.

I mean, it's being reported by people, page six, everyone.

It's like, you know, like these outlets don't go that far unless they have someone like unless the source is.

And when a people magazines or a page six, like give a source, it's it's the person.

It's 90 times, it's nine times out of ten, the actual person or their friend or a publicist or whatever, almost always.

And I can't help but think what Lexi told us when we interviewed her that how basically like her talking about how Jesse just wants to like, how he was so jealous of the attention that Wes got from being the villain.

And it's just like,

you know, that he wants this.

I also think it's very interesting of Erica having so much to say about Garcelle not talking about her private life dating to see if Erica brings this up next season on Beverly Hills.

Oh, she definitely will.

You think she will?

Do you think they're both using it?

You think they're probably both using it for a storyline?

It's giving Luann and Joe Bradley.

Yeah.

Probably.

Wanting to be Lou Ann and Joe Bradley.

Good-looking people.

First of all,

they both get laid.

Yeah.

It helps both their careers.

She looks good.

She's hooking up with a younger, good-looking guy.

And then, you know, I mean, it probably helps him the least, other than like he just gets attention from it.

But he seems to be most interested in just getting attention.

I don't know.

Erica's hot.

I saw someone refer to Danielle as the girl who graduates high school, but also comes back for all the parties.

I haven't seen that, but that's really funny.

That's literally what she's doing.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible season?

I'm collecting this.

I don't think it was a terrible season for Sierra.

What do you think of Sierra this season?

I think that Sierra is at her best when she's girling out, and

when she gets swept up in drama of these guys, it's just like, we all know Sierra is better than this, but then in the way that, you know, so many.

Well, what about in the finale when Jesse was flirting with all those women in the kitchen and then she was like,

I just don't want Lexi to see that.

She went in there and swept him out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Listen, again, maybe this is edited.

Who knows?

But the character we're seeing is giving Pick-me.

I don't know.

I like Sierra.

I like Sierra.

I think that she could have been.

I like her too.

I think that there could have been more like girls-girl energy between her and Lexi.

But I also think that, and Lexi acknowledges the fact that like she was pretty swept up with Jesse and wasn't making an effort with the girls the way that she would have.

Which, honestly, like, thinking about it would, would also rub me the wrong way.

Of like, this new girl comes into her house and then, like, gets involved with one of the guys and completely

not hate her.

I mean, it's like, it's like, it could look to them too, like, Lexi came in and wanted a storyline and so she clung to Jesse.

And it's like, whoa, like she didn't want to open herself to get to know us.

And

why not support her?

And you're friends with him.

You're all friends with him.

This new girl comes onto the show, dates your friend.

Like, why?

The relationship was kind of.

What is she doing wrong?

I also think the context of West and Sierra last season, she's coming off of that.

And then to see like this.

And this is no drag towards Lexi whatsoever, because I thought Lexi was great.

Like, I think all the girls are great on the show.

But to have like that happen with West last season, and then Lexi comes in and does kind of a similar thing with Jesse this season, and she's kind of just watching it.

She's maybe not going to feel like as sympathetic, maybe for Lexi, also because it's Jesse and they have that relationship.

Like, she's probably having complicated feelings of, like, here we go again.

But that's what I'm saying.

That's not a, isn't that, how is that a girl's girl then?

Well, she's also not talking to Lexi, and she's only hearing from Jesse that Lexi is like really jealous and doesn't like that she's hanging out with Jesse so much.

And so, to her, it's like she's only getting his side, which is, you know, which she did come in as like Amanda's friend, and it yeah, Lexi did.

Yeah, I know.

And it felt like we never once really saw Lexi and Amanda in the same room together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just think for a group of people who like call themselves girls, girls, I just think their, their treatment of Lexi was anything but.

No, I agree with you that they could have been better friends to Lexi 100%.

I also, though, see their side where it's like this girl's coming in.

And in Lexi's defense, she came in with two other newbies that were basically cut out of the entire season.

So she was really on an island alone.

She's very sweet and she's considerate.

She enforces a, I mean, I think I'm, I just was so impressed with Lexi because like she, she really, she means what she says.

She follows through.

Like Jesse, Sierra, I don't know.

They care about the wrong things.

I don't know.

I think Sierra might have

just been a little like over.

all of it this season.

I think that's kind of what I was seeing versus her like not being a girl skull or not doing whatever of just being like, I'm not dealing with this shit and then also you have like Paige that's kind of how I felt too yeah you also like the context of like Paige her best friend going through it and like being on the verge of like a panic attack about breaking up with Craig and the tour and stuff this season too I think is a different like their dynamic was different too because Paige was different yeah so it's just I feel like a lot of Sierra's stuff is just like how everyone around her was acting and she was kind of like how I felt about the whole season where it was like everybody feels like they've, they're kind of, they didn't have any drama going on, right?

Like Carl and Lindsay, like Lindsay just kept kind of poking at Carl, but he was just like, I'm not doing this.

Like, I'm focusing on softbar.

And then Kyle and Amanda started to kind of have something, but then that didn't go anywhere.

It does seem like from the reunion trailer that that might continue and get juicier, but like Paige and Craig doesn't happen until their like cameras pick back up.

So really the Jesse Sierra Lexi storyline was the only drama that we had in this entire season.

Yeah.

So maybe it's just like a product of the edit or like just lack of storylines, but the character, I'm just saying the character we saw, I just like, I just don't know.

I think also Sierra kind of like got the short end of the stick this season compared to West and like the way that.

West was able to stay out of the drama all season after that past season.

And then Sierra like got brought back into it because of Jesse.

How is it all on Jesse?

I mean, Jesse is deserves all the criticism he gets.

I'm, I'm definitely over the C pass and he has proven to be like just a guy who's like, yeah, he just wants the attention.

And I think he's, he's giving like his, Jesse's potential is going to be messy Bravo star, where I think Jesse wants to be like famous outside of Bravo.

I don't.

Right now, his actions say otherwise.

You know, listen, I've, I've his, I've been a pick-me before.

Like I've behaved in that way in my younger years.

And maybe Jesse will grow up.

But, like, you know, right now, I think he deserves it all.

But I just don't think it's all on Jesse.

Like, I don't think you can blame all of her behavior on Jesse.

I think that all three of them have

things that they could have done better.

I think that Lexi could have opened herself up more and hung out with the girls more and talked to them more because all Sierra's hearing the whole season is Jesse's side and not Lexi's side.

And I think that Jesse did keep Lexi away from the other girls, but I think Lexi also kept Lexi away from the other girls.

I think Sierra could have been less flirty with Jesse and a little more of a girl's girl to Lexi.

And I think Jesse overall just could have been better.

I agree with you.

So the biggest criticism we have for Lexi is that a girl who came in as the newbie without knowing anyone else fell for a guy and just got like a little like caught up in love.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't think honestly.

And then everyone else kind of.

I don't think Jesse or I just like don't.

I don't like really personally think that it was a Sierra or yeah, Sierra versus Lexi thing.

Like, i think in the way that like in the girls girl nature of it like i don't want to pit the two of them against each other like i think that they both maybe could have done things differently but i like don't think they're i don't think sierra really had it out for lexi in any sort of way i definitely don't think she had it out for her i just don't think she went out of her way to be a girl's girl towards her you know what i'm saying and i just like if you're gonna call yourself a girl's girl i mean i don't know just feels like maybe you should yeah i don't think she showed up and was like i'm gonna go after lexi I just think she didn't give a fuck about Lexi.

Yeah.

That's fair.

And she was just like, eh, I don't give.

I don't care about you.

That's fair.

Can we talk about it?

I do believe.

I believe.

I believe Kyle.

I think Craig's lying about the ring.

Craig is absolutely lying about the ring.

And even on Watch What Happens Live, didn't Andy say that like Craig said that he had just returned it.

It's like, oh, so convenient.

You just returned it so you can't show me the ring.

Also, did anyone notice that they cut the page saying that Craig was texting other girls?

Yeah.

Did you guys see this?

So do you remember?

Do you remember that in like, I think it was the mid-season TV?

Yeah.

In the mid-season trailer, we were going to see a page talking about how Craig like was talking to other women, texting other women.

That wasn't.

shown.

Yeah, so it was like, he wants to call me a cheater.

Well, he was the one.

Texting other women.

I think that's giving, she said something in the heat of the moment that she knew was like not true.

It was giving like a Craig lie.

Yeah.

You you know like there was like a probably a sprinkle of truth right like he probably was texting another woman and she probably knew it wasn't a threat at all but she was super pissed and she said it and cooler heads prevailed and she probably was like can you think that out yeah hoping and probably at this point because

did you guys all feel when they like got to the breakup We're like, this topic again?

I thought we had moved on.

You know, it was like, holy shit.

You know, it was just like we had to talk about it on Southern Charm.

We had to talk about it on being a summer house.

And like, it got brought up again it was just like played out i was way more invested in them taking a shot of lindsay's breast milk like that's what i was i was there for like the three of them like talking and then like having this new moment for lindsay that's what i was most excited about i almost i almost vomited no you didn't i thought it was a cute moment between friends i just i'm not into like drinking other people's bodily but you'll drink a strange cow's bodily fluid a cow that you've never even met that you know i'm not a fan of i don't really subscribe to milk period okay you know fair enough Unless I'm eating Cocoa Pebbles, which I haven't in a while.

Okay, period.

Okay, you can back it up.

Atlanta, listen, we had four episodes of Mormon Wives to cover.

We will pick back up Atlanta.

Phaedra is back.

Excited.

She seems like she's ready to

really get messy when they go to Gerneda.

They're going into Grenada.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, that will do it for this episode.

Be sure to tune in tomorrow for a very interesting episode of Going Deeper.

We have Jen and Zach Affleck.

We cover the whole whole spectrum of their relationship: from are they related to Ben Affleck to their marriage, their mental health?

Is Zach's transformation real?

You'll get to decide.

And then we have a great episode for you on Thursday.

So tune in.

We love you.

I hope you all enjoyed your Memorial weekend.

We'll see you tomorrow.

Bye.

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