E936 - Jessi & Mikayla, Mormon Wives, Sneaky Links w/ Chloe Veitch, Summer House & More Sonja Morgan News

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Speaker 2 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another wild and wacky episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. Boy, do we have a banger of a week lined up for you guys? What? What's going on?

Speaker 1 Wild and wacky.

Speaker 1 I just like to make things up.

Speaker 2 Boy, do we have a jam-packed episode for you? The ladies of Mom Talk continue to make their presence felt on the Vile Files. Today we have Jesse and Michaela.
Boy, do they serve?

Speaker 1 These bitches don't hold back.

Speaker 1 I mean, they just cannot help but just like word vomit all tea constantly.

Speaker 1 Even the show, watching the show, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do make my little batches. I finished the whole thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Anyways, they are here. They have a lot to say.

Speaker 2 I'm actually shocked about the claim that it was Michaela Michaela. Jesse confirmed it about how

Speaker 2 an idea that Demi had for the end of season one that was

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 shocking.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 She's producing.

Speaker 1 She's, I mean,

Speaker 2 there's producing and then there's craziness.

Speaker 1 There's producing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's fully committed to the bit.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I'm always pro somebody who's fully committed to the bit.

Speaker 3 So I know there's a lot to say going around, but in this single case scenario i think the idea is definitely something worth pitching but there are unfortunately are layers to the committing to this bit there are and there's i don't know if i approve of all the levels of pre-production that went into that bit what she committed to but

Speaker 2 i don't even know if we're allowed to laugh uh what is the internet a saying over the weekend are they what's are we are we are they starting to take sides a lot of people are ranking the vibes i've seen that um i see a lot of love for our girl Michaela.

Speaker 1 Yes, Michaela's always one or two. A star is born.
For sure.

Speaker 1 She really found her voice.

Speaker 4 Did you see Marciano's video that he posted?

Speaker 2 I did not.

Speaker 2 There obviously is a lot of speculation about his involvement in this franchise. I think what we all agree in, and he seems to be kind of a loser.

Speaker 1 A little bit of gross. Yeah.
I mean, I think every wife has had a negative opinion of him, regardless of what Demi or Jesse or any of like the allegations or claims against him.

Speaker 1 They're all just like, yeah, he kind of sucks.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But anyways, what was his video?

Speaker 4 Well, he posted a video and he was at Swig and he was ranking the drinks that the girls made. And he, he said, why not try some of these girls? I mean, some of these girls' drinks.

Speaker 4 Like he was, he was basically like saying how he feels about them through their drinks.

Speaker 4 So when he tried Jesse's drink, he said, definitely something that I'm used to and that I like.

Speaker 4 If I had another chance or opportunity to continue drinking this, and then he says, I could see myself drinking this in the future. He's talking about Jesse's swig drink.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's gross.

Speaker 4 But kind of talking about her. And then when he was drinking Demi's drink, he bleeps her name, first of all, in the video.
And then he says, no, instantly regretting it.

Speaker 4 Wish I never took a sip of this one. And then he spits it out and does like a ugh.

Speaker 1 He sucks.

Speaker 2 He does suck.

Speaker 1 He's like, he's just cringy.

Speaker 4 I was like, ugh, what is this?

Speaker 1 I mean, he clearly is trying to get clout and look at us giving it to him. So it is working in his favor, whether people like him or not.
And he's cringy on Vanderpump Villa.

Speaker 1 And I was kind of like, this guy. And then to have the season two storyline, I'm like, this guy? We're talking about this guy.

Speaker 2 We only talked about Vanderpump Villa as it relates to Mormon housewives. Did anything else go on? I mean, that season has come out.
It's been out.

Speaker 1 It's come and gone, I believe.

Speaker 2 Do they? Other than Mormon Wives?

Speaker 1 I mean, I did, but that's just because my Queen Stossi was back on reality television. So I very much like Objective.

Speaker 2 How did you? I mean, it's been two seasons.

Speaker 1 It's been two seasons. No one gives a shit.
I didn't finish it. I didn't like it.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen the season finale. I don't know who got the $30,000.

Speaker 2 Sarah can watch and finish just about anything. I don't know what that says about Iron Office.

Speaker 1 You can't get through it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm on like episode eight, nine.

Speaker 3 What if there were human remains that were found close to Vanderbilt Villa?

Speaker 1 Would we

Speaker 1 watch more?

Speaker 1 Poor Taylor Swift. Poor Taylor Swift.
She wakes up on a sunny Tuesday morning.

Speaker 2 When she just comes out, she constantly catches grenades and shrapnel from. I mean,

Speaker 1 they just love to throw her name.

Speaker 1 They just add it in the mix. It's like there was...
What's the story?

Speaker 1 Human remains were found just like near her house.

Speaker 3 Less than a mile away from where she lives.

Speaker 1 Like, we didn't need to include her name. I bet a lot of people

Speaker 1 live there. Yeah.
Right. Less than a mile.

Speaker 3 It's crazy, but you know.

Speaker 1 I bet there was someone else who lived closer than Taylor's cliff. It was actually in their backyard.

Speaker 4 Probably somebody who lives there in that

Speaker 1 Perry. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 I feel like she's going to write a banger song about it, though.

Speaker 1 Taylor? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Over my dead body.

Speaker 3 They found the bodies near my house, but all I was thinking about was your body against my body.

Speaker 1 No, someone mute her.

Speaker 1 Cut her mic off. I don't know.
I think it'd be a banger.

Speaker 2 Taylor's constantly catching shrapnel, even from Justin Beldoni's lawyer, who last week tried to make some claim that, according to a trusted source, he heard a rumor that allegedly Blake threatened Taylor with releasing all of these public text messages.

Speaker 2 A judge has stricken that down. Stricken.
And basically said, stop your shenanigans and tomfoolery when it comes to this case. And I think even threatened sanctions against

Speaker 2 the judge.

Speaker 2 And then all the Justin sycophants and super fans are like, oh, well, the lawyer, he signed a sworn affidavit. So he must be telling the truth.

Speaker 2 Well, all he's telling, like the sworn affidavit that there is a trusted source, like that he has a source that he thinks he can trust and someone's willing to say this. That's all he's saying.

Speaker 2 So that could be literally anyone. It could be his dog.

Speaker 1 His dog could be the one being like, he's like, he's my best friend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I heard that Taylor Swift and Blake Lively, like, gee was going to, like, that's all it is. It's just like a, it's a source of a rumor.

Speaker 1 I mean, didn't Blake's team also come out and be like, this is just like not true. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But then more importantly, because like obviously Blake's back and forth. Blake's team's going to Blake's team, but like the judge is like, stop this shit out.

Speaker 2 He's finally seems to be putting a stop to it. But not after all the ridiculous headlines that made it seem like it was a fact.
Right.

Speaker 1 The damage is done now. The damn it, you know.
Listen, they get what they want real quick, that team. They work hard and they work fast.
And I'll take the slap on the wrist. I'm so sorry, Judge.

Speaker 2 I mean, they continue to try to bully and win this case in the court of public opinion. Anything new with Karen Reid going on? Speaking of trying to win the case in public opinion.

Speaker 1 Let me see. I honestly have not had a moment to keep up, which is really hurtful for my soul.

Speaker 1 But what I do know that happened is that Brian Higgins, who was like texting with Karen Reed, had a little something, something going on.

Speaker 2 Well, he never texting Brian Higgins.

Speaker 1 Well, they were texting each other.

Speaker 1 He was responding.

Speaker 1 She wasn't texting herself. He was definitely responding to her.

Speaker 1 He was texting her. And

Speaker 1 the night of the murder,

Speaker 1 the night that John O'Keefe died, he didn't tell any police or anyone else that he went back to work at like two in the morning.

Speaker 1 He went back to the police station with a duffel bag, did some things. Uh-oh.
Didn't tell anyone he did those things.

Speaker 1 When they asked when he, the next time he went to work, he was like, oh, like Monday morning, dude. Like, just like, just like normal workday.

Speaker 1 And like he had like done some sketchy stuff in the police station. Like what's and he didn't tell anyone.
That's just like the

Speaker 1 last thing that's sticking in my mind from what I've seen on TikTok. Yes, of course.
But that was like the last like stuff I paid attention to. Still ongoing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, listen, I think she will be acquitted. I think

Speaker 2 every time I text Emily Baker, our unofficial legal correspondent, who, you know, I really respect, very much tries to be the legal.

Speaker 2 correspondent that she is and and and stick to the facts not not the opinions but I'm always like first when I was made aware of the case by my dear wife, I was like, oh my God, Karen Reen is innocent.

Speaker 2 I'm texting this to Emily and Emily always responds back with like a non-opinion, but like also something about the case.

Speaker 2 But then I text Emily a couple of days later and be like, I think she's guilty now, but I think she's going to get off.

Speaker 2 And her response was simply, prosecution is a mess, which I believe is kind of her agreeing with me that like she might get acquitted just because the prosecution doesn't seem to be doing their job appropriately.

Speaker 1 The prosecution is definitely a mess for sure.

Speaker 1 We also tried to watch Tangled this past weekend

Speaker 1 with River and Nick the whole time was just like, God, her hair is probably so gross. Like it just, it's on the ground.
It's probably really heavy. It's just like, imagine how nasty it is.

Speaker 2 The live action of Tangled is disgusting. Can you imagine that just like

Speaker 3 10 years of

Speaker 2 is it though?

Speaker 1 He's like, face heel washing with Tangled.

Speaker 2 Could you imagine just, it would be like a mop.

Speaker 1 But it feels, this is Nick.

Speaker 1 While me and River are trying to enjoy a tangled he's like god it's probably just really dirty like look how much it's dragging well first it's it's out the it's out the tower it's pulling up her mom it's wrapped around her mom's shoes

Speaker 1 yeah her mom's shoes and god knows where her shoes have been i didn't really understand the plot of tangle well

Speaker 1 it's a cartoon sounds like you were a little distracted first of all why aren't we calling it rapunzel

Speaker 1 because her hair is really tangly yeah

Speaker 1 that it's a tangled web of an adventure i don't know i feel like you're disrespecting Mandy more

Speaker 1 by saying this. You're watching the

Speaker 1 squad of everything. Exactly.
He was too focused on the hair being dirty that he didn't understand that the flower was like she was in the middle of the day.

Speaker 3 She was like gonna die, and then they gave her the flower. But then, if she like cut her hair, then she wouldn't have the magic anymore, and no one knew what would happen to her.

Speaker 1 That's why Mother Gothel kidnapped her.

Speaker 3 And keeps her in the tower.

Speaker 1 She's gonna grow old. Yeah, that lady is not.
That Mother Knows Best song. Oh,

Speaker 1 it's so good when it's like

Speaker 1 drama.

Speaker 3 God, I love Mandy more.

Speaker 1 She's like closing all the curtains. She's like, Mother Knows Best.

Speaker 1 It's a funny show. It's a funny show.
It's a funny show. It's a funny thing.
Did River like it?

Speaker 1 You know, it's definitely more for the two of us. She's like, not paying attention.
It's still too much going on.

Speaker 2 Try the Hunchback of Notre Dame. That really.

Speaker 3 It's really sad. I think if they're going to make any live-action remake, I would say, do the hunchback in Notre Dame.
Make it a better movie.

Speaker 1 I also tried to show her Emperor's New Groove. Not interested in that one either.
And then while I'm watching it back, I'm like, you know, it is kind of slow.

Speaker 1 Like, we do need, like, River needs the birds and the animals and the songs.

Speaker 1 Like, we have to narrate when we're watching with River River. She's like, oh my God, the squirrels.
Wait, look at the birds. Ca, ca!

Speaker 1 Like, we have to, like, keep her interested, or she is in the other room.

Speaker 1 Lama's not doing it for me. Llamas were not doing it for me.
Oh, my God. Emperor's New Groove rocks so hard.

Speaker 4 Speaking of moms and daughters. Did you guys see that Sammy Sheen calls her sister Lola out for lying in a TikTok video and slamming her for not getting Denise Richards a Mother's Day gift.

Speaker 1 This is the craziest TikTok I've ever seen. And I just like happened to scroll through.
I just wish she actually slammed her like

Speaker 1 WWE style. Yeah.
It kind of honestly, she could have. It was verbal.
It was a verbal slam. It was verbal and it was definitely unnecessary.

Speaker 1 When she first started though, I was like, ooh, who's the tea? What's the tea? And then she was just like, yeah. And I was in that photo too.
And I was like, oh, okay. I am sad.

Speaker 1 And then she's like, and just so you know, she's not that good of a person. She actually didn't get our mom anything.
And I made the reservation. I was like, I don't know what I invested in this.

Speaker 2 What did Sammy get her?

Speaker 1 She made the reservation. That's not a gift.
I paid for everyone's food. Lola said she was going to split the bill with me, and she didn't.

Speaker 1 I got my mom two things of flowers and a bunch of shit from Barefoot Dreams and a very nice candle and a card. And Lola couldn't even get her flowers.
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1 But all the comments on that post were saying that she is so nice. Okay.

Speaker 1 But like,

Speaker 1 Sammy's got that OnlyFans money.

Speaker 2 Where's Lola?

Speaker 1 Well, she was a host at that restaurant. Or maybe she's at an ice cream shop or something.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think it's great to have Jesus as your best friend, but he ain't like giving you cash.

Speaker 1 He's definitely not paying your bills, baby.

Speaker 1 That was really funny.

Speaker 4 I will say, though, you know how there's always that one kid of the group that like is the one who is organizing the group gift for the parent?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And then there's the one.

Speaker 4 But are any of you guys that person in your family?

Speaker 1 It was always my oldest sister.

Speaker 2 It was only my sister when she was trying to scam us, when she was like,

Speaker 2 worked for like some kind of, you know, one of her many pyramid schemes or whatever. And it was like trying to be like, mom needs makeup.
And then she would sell us the makeup and take the profits.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Working towards that, Lexis.

Speaker 1 How about my brother texted the family group chat? Happy Mother's Day, mom. Love you so much.
That was it? What? In the family group chat. Nothing for me.
Didn't hear from him once.

Speaker 1 And like, you could have texted her personally.

Speaker 1 I didn't need to see that. Also, your

Speaker 1 So, literally.

Speaker 2 What I love about that is I fully understood everything about his thought process, which was simply like, I just, I need to text my mom. This is the group chat.
She's in this group chat.

Speaker 1 Good. Great.
Do it done. Done.
Crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I do have to say in Lola's defense, though, that she did post a photo of like the flowers and the card that she did get her mom.
So she said, I did.

Speaker 1 Actually, I don't know why my sister decided to bring this to social media. I don't know.
You know, Lola was like, what the heck is going on?

Speaker 1 I didn't see me.

Speaker 2 Well, Sonia Morgan and restaurants just do not mix.

Speaker 1 No. She's struggling.
She's having some time. Something is going on.
She's having some issues with the restaurateurs.

Speaker 2 She's drinking before she's eating.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, Sonia Morgan is

Speaker 1 notorious for having a great time when she goes out.

Speaker 1 Or before she goes out.

Speaker 2 I'm still kind of confused by the story because she allegedly is out to dinner and then an elderly patron at a restaurant was dining who appeared to be in distress.

Speaker 1 Like, what was the elderly

Speaker 1 person doing? Oh, she fell.

Speaker 2 I don't know. There was distress.

Speaker 2 So apparently Sonia

Speaker 2 called the 911, but then ended up being on the empty chat.

Speaker 1 Yeah. What if she just like felt so connected to this old elderly woman and she was like, she has no one to go with her to the hospital? I'll go with her.
Empathy. On the stretcher.

Speaker 3 Maybe Sonia Morgan just has empathy.

Speaker 1 Like, maybe that was. She's an empath.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It appears that she made a call, a medical call, to the restaurant. Officers responded.

Speaker 1 They issued a written trespass warning to Sonia Morgan at the request of the Breakers Hotel, the owner of Echo, the restaurant that they were at. So she must have been acting up or something.

Speaker 1 Morgan refused to sign the warning, but police were unable to corroborate that report. I didn't want to leave.
I insisted on making sure she was cared for. Morgan tells people about the elderly woman.

Speaker 1 Wait, so

Speaker 1 elderly woman falls. I'm hearing.
Elderly woman falls. Sonia comes to help.
Restaurants mad at Sonia. They file trespass, not allowed to come.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. I'm trying to help.

Speaker 3 No, that's a different restaurant. This is in Florida.

Speaker 2 Why is she being accused of trespassing at a restaurant?

Speaker 1 That's open. They issued a written trespass warning, so I'm wondering if maybe like...
They wrote it down?

Speaker 1 On like a barn at the police.

Speaker 1 The police issued it. This seems seems

Speaker 1 like a very florida restaurant but what's confusing is that it says morgan refused to sign that warning so i i guess you have an option when a police officer gives you a trespass warning from the hotel restaurant she's trying to save a life she's she's in the middle of work right now she's a hero this is a public establishment that welcomes people when they're open lots of people

Speaker 1 But they don't want her.

Speaker 1 But like, but why?

Speaker 1 I need them to release a statement. I, I saw the video of her being cared, like, on the gurney out, and she's clearly, like, actively speaking.
So she's not in any type of

Speaker 1 arm. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yelling at people. It says, where's the elderly lady? Where's this video? I don't know.
Florida has a really hard time with divas. It was just Sonia.

Speaker 1 Sonia made the call and somehow ended up on the gurney going into the ambulance. Divas down.

Speaker 2 Justin is bringing up this video.

Speaker 2 I have this vision in my head.

Speaker 1 I hope.

Speaker 6 This is the first one.

Speaker 1 Is that Sonia? That's Sonia on the gurney.

Speaker 2 That guy in the background looks so over this.

Speaker 1 She crying?

Speaker 2 No, she was just like I heard giggling in the background.

Speaker 6 This is the picture of her on the gurney.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just chilling. And this is after she called the 911 to 100%.

Speaker 1 Her medical assistance for someone else.

Speaker 3 She said, oh, she's fine. Actually, let me take a little red.

Speaker 1 Somewhere it said that she likes to sustain minor injuries and that they wanted to check her out. But I'm just like, I feel like that's like a.
That's a hefty bill.

Speaker 1 So yeah, just to get checked out, I will say. Well,

Speaker 3 wishing her the best.

Speaker 1 Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers.
Getting into some secret lives of Mormon wives. The women are continuing to beef online.
Jesse called out Demi on Instagram and after they disrespected her.

Speaker 1 And what I'm guessing was our interview

Speaker 1 because we did have Brett and Demi together.

Speaker 1 And Jesse says, a 47-year-old washed up loser who can't hold a job and asked my husband and I for 10 grand just a few months ago so he could pay his bills is like what does Brett do for work?

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 1 don't know. I know he was on Claire Crawley's.
He was also a bachelor and was a football player.

Speaker 1 That's not a job occupation. That's not work.

Speaker 4 I think he's trying to be on reality TV.

Speaker 2 And that's awesome, but I am just curious what he's been up to. Should have asked, I guess.

Speaker 1 Oh, we didn't know that. He's a managing partner at Armstrong Consulting Group.
Oh.

Speaker 1 As per his official LinkedIn page.

Speaker 2 That sounds like a real job.

Speaker 1 I mean, consulting.

Speaker 4 That was in June of 2022.

Speaker 1 2022. He's freelance, maybe.

Speaker 2 Well, managing partner means he has some kind of equity or...

Speaker 2 in this company.

Speaker 2 I mean, it could be.

Speaker 3 I don't imagine Demi with a scrub, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, they don't look like they live poor.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Jesse is like not afraid to call him out and say, I mean, him, if that's true, which that's a strange thing to lie about because I feel like maybe there would be receipts of that.

Speaker 1 Maybe not, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 But like to be like, hey, he needs money from us. And then like now.

Speaker 2 That's a bold thing to.

Speaker 2 Ask your alleged co-stars for money, the same people that allegedly.

Speaker 2 And Jesse does get into, I know it's on episodes somewhere four five and six I don't know we get into it this episode but the whole conversation about like what went down before seasons one and season two in terms of their contract negotiation Jesse breaks it down in great detail shortly when when Michael and Jesse make their appearance in this episode but wouldn't it be kind of it's like that that's the same people he went to and asked for money I mean what I learned in this season of Secret Loves and Warren Wise is that Jesse's a millionaire and she's sitting on a hair empire

Speaker 1 like they use the M word.

Speaker 1 They did. Yeah.
The M word, millionaire.

Speaker 2 Oh, I thought you were going to say mogul.

Speaker 1 I mean, millionaire is that, but that we could, we could throw that in there. Okay.
For sure. Well, they do have a new intro to the show.
It is very iconic.

Speaker 1 I saw Taylor Frankie Paul's little BTS she posted. Iconic.
So good. Jesse and Layla don't get their hair wet, which I feel like if I'm production, I'm fighting them on that.

Speaker 1 I'm saying, listen, I see the vision at the end. You want to get your hair wet.
Don't be the only two that. Jesse sent a video.
She had a video. Jesse sent a video.
She's

Speaker 1 her response.

Speaker 2 Well, because when we interviewed Jesse and Michaela, we were, there was so much, honestly, we went in with so many questions.

Speaker 2 We didn't even get to most of them because they were just serving up. And then, and this, and oh, by the way,

Speaker 1 oh my God.

Speaker 1 That wasn't even on the docket. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So we've asked Jesse to respond to this question on why she did not get her hair wet in the intro, and she has sent us a response.

Speaker 2 Should we play it now?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Okay, you guys, I was just as surprised to see that Layla and I had dry hair in the intro because we all got wet. I was actually the very first one to film our intro, and I was like the guinea pig.

Speaker 5 So I was like getting my hair in there, flipping it around. I actually have so many videos of having wet hair.
And if you look at the poster, we all had wet hair. So I don't know.

Speaker 5 It's kind of funny because everyone's like, they're just divas and they didn't want to get their hair wet.

Speaker 5 Trust me, if that was the case, they would have just been like, sorry, you're getting your hair wet.

Speaker 1 We don't have that kind of thing.

Speaker 5 So yeah, I did get my hair wet, but maybe I just looked so stunning gorgeous with dress

Speaker 1 time to like leave it that way. Literally, Jesse.

Speaker 5 But no, we definitely had to do some work.

Speaker 5 Layla, it was actually really funny because her hair is naturally curly and they were nervous that if she got her hair wet, her extensions would be just kind of wavy and wet and her own hair would curl up.

Speaker 5 And so we had to get like lube and lube her hair down. That's like a little hairstylist trick and put lube in it to make it look wet instead of getting it actually wet.

Speaker 5 And then they got her extensions wet. So a little BTS, but maybe it just didn't look as good as they were wanting.
And that's why they kept us both dry. I'm not sure.

Speaker 5 I'm going to have to ask and find out because I was curious about that too.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well,

Speaker 1 it's funny that she says that because I thought about that on the poster. I was like, wait, all of their hair is wet.
So I wonder if they were like, no, girls, it's fine.

Speaker 1 We'll go and post and give you wet hair. And I was like, but how did they do that? They lubed her up.

Speaker 2 Jesse, thank you for coming through this morning morning and picking up for what we failed to do when you first showed up and asked that question. I'm glad we were able to get it.

Speaker 1 Me too, because I also was like, these bitches just didn't want to get their extensions wet because I've had extensions once or twice in my life before, and I know how much of a bitch it is to like, once you get them wet, then like the whole drying process.

Speaker 1 And I was like, listen, honestly, I get it, but I am shocked that production wasn't like, girls, trust, get them wet. And they did.
So that's so strange that they didn't use.

Speaker 5 Why would they make the two of them

Speaker 1 weird production choice? That's a weird choice.

Speaker 6 Do you think someone accidentally deleted the footage of the wet shots?

Speaker 1 They're like,

Speaker 2 kind of almost like there's just no real good explanation for why they wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 Or like it wasn't in focus. They were scrolling that whole time.

Speaker 3 Yeah, maybe they were like, let's

Speaker 3 create some discourse.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the person in charge of the

Speaker 1 intro is like kind of pissed at Jesse and Layla.

Speaker 2 Well, I told you we have a jammed pack episode for you today because coming up next, Chloe Veach is with us, who's hosting a new Netflix show, Sneaky Links, a show about maybe falling in love with the person you don't want anyone to know you're having sex with.

Speaker 2 So I'm not sure how that all is going to work out.

Speaker 1 It's a crazy concept. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Look, I see the vision. You know what I'm saying? But like...

Speaker 1 I don't see it executing.

Speaker 2 They don't want people to know they're having sex with them.

Speaker 1 I don't know how they got them there. It's like,

Speaker 1 did they go out to the person that's hiding them and be like, you're on a new dating show? We're not going to tell you who, what, when, but when you get there, surprise.

Speaker 3 Anyways,

Speaker 3 I want to know: could you potentially sneaky link with someone else's sneaky link?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I will have to ask Chloe Veach.

Speaker 2 We'll have to ask Chloe who is up next. And then after Chloe, we'll break down a summer house breakup heard around the world between Lexi and Jesse.
Get into Mormon Wives. And then the interview.

Speaker 2 Certainly, many of you have been tuning in for with Jesse and Michaela.

Speaker 1 But coming up next, Chloe Veach.

Speaker 2 This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Mental health awareness is growing, but there's still progress to be made.

Speaker 2 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say they have avoided seeking mental health support due to a fear of judgment. Many of you listening have thought, considered therapy.

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Speaker 1 Chloe, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2 Thanks, Nick. So great to have you.

Speaker 1 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 We're very excited about the new show on Netflix you're hosting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, can you imagine? Well,

Speaker 1 we can.

Speaker 2 Sneaky links.

Speaker 2 Help us, for the people who may not know what a sneaky link is. Yeah.

Speaker 2 First, help us understand what that is. Okay.
And then explain us.

Speaker 2 The only concern we have is how are people who don't want people to know that they're hooking up with someone?

Speaker 5 What are the possibilities they're gonna want to want to do it on tv okay so i can't physically give any spoilers but i'm gonna spoil it right now perfect um

Speaker 5 they do they hook up even if there's cameras they love sneaking so the definition of a sneaky link for me the easiest way i can explain it was and is

Speaker 5 you know when you you don't want anyone to know that you're in a relationship with someone or that you're hooking up with someone it could be a six-month period of you've had sex with them a couple times or it could be a 10-year period of there's a couple on the show that was sneaky linking for 10 years

Speaker 5 and like why why were they sneaky because of the lack of boundaries like he didn't want to be with her and she's very much like okay well i'm just gonna continue this because it's easy to do it and i think as women it's so easy to fall into something like that they would crawl from room because it's in a motel So they're in each other's room.

Speaker 5 Well, they're in their own rooms. And then they'd come out and they'd sneak away from their sneaky links and go meet up with other people in the motel and like crawl across like army crawl style.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. Yeah.
And we're going to see it. You're going to see all of it.

Speaker 1 And what?

Speaker 2 And were you helping facilitate these hookups?

Speaker 5 I mean, my job as the host was just to be there as the big sister. Okay.
Like if he if he hurts you or upsets you, babe, come here. Yeah.
I'm literally a veteran at Dayton Shows at this point.

Speaker 5 I understand your struggle. I understand your pain.
Come cry on my shoulder. It wasn't my job to direct what they should do if that was to happen

Speaker 5 because there's no way I would get sued. It would be a HR issue because all the guys were really, really hot.

Speaker 1 All the guys are hot.

Speaker 5 All of the guys, yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did you like find

Speaker 1 yourself being like, should I go into room AC really quick?

Speaker 1 Funny you say that because Chloe's army crawling.

Speaker 1 Me.

Speaker 1 You're like, there's a lot of women army crawling. I don't know what they're doing, but it was really crazy.
Yeah, Chloe. Yeah.
Wow. Why is she wearing a blonde wig?

Speaker 5 It was very hard for me to transition mentally, like on set, from talent to host. Because I've literally been talent for so long.
And now I'm like, oh no, they look to me now.

Speaker 5 And I need to tell them what to do.

Speaker 1 Fuck.

Speaker 1 You're like, babe. And I would fuck them.
And I would fuck them. And I would.
That's what I would do.

Speaker 1 You know.

Speaker 1 I love you.

Speaker 1 We need to be friends.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's what you tell them.

Speaker 5 There was a couple times I said to some of the executives, would it be like a violation if I was to like, obviously, if they ended up with no one at the end, if I was to get their number?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like a power dynamic there.

Speaker 1 And they were like, probably couldn't, you probably couldn't do that, Chloe.

Speaker 5 And I'm like, just double check it.

Speaker 1 If they slid into my DMs,

Speaker 2 you don't think that, but could you just go ahead and actually ask the lawyers

Speaker 2 and make sure I can't.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because if I can, I'm going to.

Speaker 5 If it's not in writing,

Speaker 5 I can do what I want.

Speaker 1 Where did Sneaky Links film?

Speaker 5 So they filmed it in Scottsdale, Arizona. Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 Boiling. I actually had heat exhaustion one of the days.
Oh, God bless. Yeah,

Speaker 5 it was a lot.

Speaker 1 God bless Arizona. And God bless.

Speaker 2 Do we have a preview of this trailer?

Speaker 1 Do we play a trailer?

Speaker 5 When's it come out? The 21st of May.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. It comes out tomorrow, guys.
It comes out tomorrow. Tomorrow.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Alright, let's check out the trailer of sneaky links.

Speaker 5 I am so ready to be in love.

Speaker 2 I'm ready for something real.

Speaker 5 I'm moving out of my whole face.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to find true love.

Speaker 1 What is he doing here? What's up, people? It was a high school thing. That is the one that I was.
I thought I was going to see a whole new set of singles.

Speaker 1 You have been bought here with the person that you love having casual sex with.

Speaker 5 AKA, you're Sneaky Link.

Speaker 1 This is gonna get messy for sure and quick.

Speaker 7 I'm helping you explore your Sneaky Link relationship in a deeper way.

Speaker 7 But it's okay for you to explore other connections if you're curious.

Speaker 1 This is a disaster.

Speaker 1 It's a disaster.

Speaker 2 Would you like to come over?

Speaker 1 Holy smokes.

Speaker 1 They're all hot. Smoking.

Speaker 7 She's giving me zero attention.

Speaker 1 If he won't, someone else will. Damn.
She's actually kind of cute.

Speaker 7 Kelsey didn't only step on my toes. She came for my neck.

Speaker 2 I came in with some habits that I needed to break.

Speaker 7 Some of you have made crazy progress, and I can see that there are romantic sparks to me.

Speaker 1 I kind of want to call. I'm not here to make friends.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 2 we are in trouble.

Speaker 1 Wait, I can already see like the people who

Speaker 1 have been sneaky linking for a while. They go here.
They imagine to like continue to sneaky link. And then their guy is like off with another girl.
I'm pissed.

Speaker 5 Yeah, no, literally.

Speaker 2 I have quite a couple questions after seeing that. One, are any of the men

Speaker 2 the ones who wish they could be in a relationship that are being hidden? Is it, is it? Yeah, they are.

Speaker 2 There are some sad, sad boys.

Speaker 5 And I think that's why I was so intrigued because I haven't seen it from that side. I thought it was going to be the women that are like, I want you to marry me.
Like the ultimatum.

Speaker 5 I said she's like, love his life.

Speaker 2 Out there in the wild. How many sexual partners did the person who have the most sex have on the show? Like, I don't mean coming into the show.
I mean filming the show. Like, how many?

Speaker 1 Like, they bounced around.

Speaker 2 Yeah. What was the most sexual partners one person had?

Speaker 5 I think three.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Question.

Speaker 1 For the casting process, like, how did you, how did they get their sneaky link or like, how did they get the person that was hiding them to come on the show?

Speaker 5 So I was worried about this. Yeah.
And I feel like from an audience perspective, it's always like, well, how did they not know? This is lies. Like, what?

Speaker 5 Like, too hot to handle after the first season.

Speaker 5 You're going to know it's too hot to handle i went on x on the beach mtv and before that i kind of knew already what x's were coming on because i would call them and be like oh by the way i'm going on the show what are you doing in a month yeah literally so i was worried about that because i thought i want it to be natural whatever but the casting process took a year really so they were constantly like because i even spoke to them just to understand how it worked but they

Speaker 5 they picked five or six sneaky links from each person they wanted to be an original on the show.

Speaker 5 And then they would vet them for months and months and then it would be like so carefully curated that none of them actually knew it was like genuine shock and surprise some of them didn't even want to continue filming when it was like i do not want this i did not come here for this when their sneaky link showed up yeah oh that's

Speaker 1 because they've been like

Speaker 1 you can know that because they've been terrible to that person but it's not an edge i did not send him to get exposed did any of them have like relationships and they were like cheating on that relationship with this sneaky link and maybe that relationship ended or something?

Speaker 1 Like, was there any of that kind of canoodling going on?

Speaker 5 I don't think necessarily that exact scenario. Scenario, but the morals, the values, the boundaries, and everything in between, everything's bled.

Speaker 2 From your perspective,

Speaker 2 how many of the people who didn't want to date their sneaky link didn't want to date them because they didn't perceive them to be their physical match or equal?

Speaker 1 quite a few of them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was

Speaker 2 the number one reason. Do you think from your perspective?

Speaker 5 That was very hard to watch because no one wants. Listen, exes and sneaky links completely different.

Speaker 5 An ex is someone that you've introduced to your family, you've gone out into the wild with them, you've posted them on social media, and then all of a sudden it's like sneaky links.

Speaker 5 You don't want anyone to see them. It's like there's a reason you don't want the world to know that you're together, right? So, yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 It does get sexy.

Speaker 5 I cried multiple times. Crying,

Speaker 5 yeah, because it's just hard Because as a woman, it's like, and especially as a guy as well, but I've got a vagina.

Speaker 5 So as a woman, I've been through, it's so relatable because I've been through every single fucking scenario that's on the show.

Speaker 1 You want to be like, come here, it's okay. Please, just leave it.

Speaker 2 Do you really learn anything from watching the show, or is it just a fun, hot, messy mess?

Speaker 5 I wouldn't have gone on the show as a host if it wasn't adding some value to like relationships as a whole because otherwise I would literally just break boundaries and do whatever I wanted to do.

Speaker 1 You would have joined the cast.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I literally would have joined the cast. Spicy Mari is the relationship expert.

Speaker 5 So she is someone who has a method that she brings people on the show with me and she sits down and we have this like link lowdown at the end of the episodes and she like rips them a new butthole.

Speaker 5 She's like, this is what you're doing wrong. You're breaking boundaries.
You're pressing her buttons. This is toxic.
This is what you need to change. This is what you need to do.

Speaker 5 So yeah, you do, you do learn.

Speaker 1 That was some growth. Okay.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 5 Oh, I'm so growth in all areas.

Speaker 2 Did you watch Temptation Island?

Speaker 5 Yes. And I watched the whole of your reunion episode.
Oh, did you?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What did you think? How do you think this compares to that? Because that was a massive smash hit,

Speaker 2 particularly around the messiness.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think

Speaker 5 two completely separate shows, two completely different shows. The same kind of blueprint in dating, but Temptation Island.
Oh my God. I loved it.
I binge watched it in, I think, less than two days.

Speaker 5 I didn't sleep,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 5 I loved it, but I was angry. Yeah, whilst watching it, I'm like,

Speaker 1 we'll make you the angriest. Rhythmic water slapping, literally.
That'll get you. That'll get you every time.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Him in the shower with the, and they didn't have the camera for the threesome, and all it said was rhythmic water slapping. Oh, really?

Speaker 5 All I heard was the birds chirping.

Speaker 1 Oh no, the sun's come out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then they're all like, all right, bye. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, literally.

Speaker 5 But I think with that show, the pain point was, oh, if this was my boyfriend, I would be fuming.

Speaker 5 Whereas with Sneaky Links, the pain point is, oh my God, this is what I do in the outside world and this is why I haven't found love yet.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So like this is a thing that's been able to have a mirror for people watching.

Speaker 5 Yeah, there's different pain points in different shows.

Speaker 2 Where what did you think about yourself after hosting this show? Have you ever been a sneaky link or sneaky linked?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, I've been a sneaky link. No, I have, I've never been the sneaky link, I don't think.

Speaker 7 You'd be surprised.

Speaker 1 There's no way.

Speaker 5 You'd be surprised.

Speaker 1 They're all like, we're dating. She's like, God, no, please, please.
No, I'm not. Please.

Speaker 5 No, you can hide behind the blonde.

Speaker 2 So you've hidden a boy before?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Why?

Speaker 5 And a woman.

Speaker 5 When I first was like, I think I'm by, it was a sneaky linky relationship. It lasted a year.

Speaker 1 Well, that makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 5 But I learned a lot from that because now I understand that I shouldn't have done that. But yeah, sneaky linking, it's not the way forward.

Speaker 1 Was it hard

Speaker 1 to host this kind of show? Like, did you find yourself kind of picking and choosing your favorites?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, a few people did grow on me on the show. Only from like a storyline perspective, though, because when you're...

Speaker 5 Like, I respect someone's craft.

Speaker 2 And by craft, you mean how they're able to manipulate?

Speaker 5 I think the way that they're able to direct themselves in a narrative of, okay, I know that the show is about sneaky links and growth.

Speaker 5 And I feel like some of the men did have a lot of growth.

Speaker 1 A couple didn't, you know?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which one did you want to have sex with?

Speaker 2 Again.

Speaker 1 Again. I feel like HR.

Speaker 1 HR profession, you know.

Speaker 2 In your head, not in reality.

Speaker 5 I think everyone would want to have sex with the same person. So you watch it.
You would probably want to have sex with the same person that I do.

Speaker 2 Was he the toxic one or the one who learned?

Speaker 1 Oh, he's the toxic one. He's the toxic one, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 But I'm in therapy.

Speaker 1 Thank God.

Speaker 5 Okay, I'm in therapy.

Speaker 1 And because of this show, I want to go to college.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 I want to study stuff.

Speaker 5 no more no more tv i'll be in your doctor's office i'll see you in julymb so what do you want to go school for um i want to study like psychology oh

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 5 the difference between sociopaths psychopaths narcissism gaslighting i know that the last time we had a conversation about that when i was on the podcast oh did i gaslighting is such an overly used term buzzword it frustrates him i I love it.

Speaker 5 Every time I bring it up.

Speaker 2 I think it doesn't sound like when people water down the meaning of meaningful words.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, because

Speaker 2 they do exist. Not everyone who made you mad is a narcissist.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 And I think I'm starting to learn that.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh,

Speaker 5 okay. He's probably not textbook.

Speaker 1 Selfish? Possibly. Yeah.
For sure. Just a terrible person.

Speaker 1 For you.

Speaker 5 But not for everyone else. Who knows? Because I'm biased.

Speaker 1 His mom might think he's great. Yes.

Speaker 1 What else have you been up to?

Speaker 5 What have I been up to?

Speaker 5 I literally moved to America.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I live here now.
Welcome. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Have my I1 visa.

Speaker 5 You can't get rid of me for three years now.

Speaker 1 Well, thank God.

Speaker 5 I have been learning the ropes of America and dating and finding my feet.

Speaker 1 Have you found yourself at a raisin canes?

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, every Wednesday.

Speaker 2 Perfect.

Speaker 2 What is the biggest difference dating in America versus dating in the UK?

Speaker 5 I feel like men in America are very

Speaker 5 straightforward in the beginning. They're like, oh, I love you.
Like, you're so good looking. Like, oh, I'm going to treat you like a queen.
I'm a gentleman that you've always needed.

Speaker 5 And then a month down the line, you're like,

Speaker 5 he's not called me in two days. What's going on? So I think the men in the UK are very hard to get, but the men in America are very easily,

Speaker 5 they approach you quicker.

Speaker 1 It's like called love bombing.

Speaker 1 Nick's like, stop. You're too sorry about your buzzwords, but but

Speaker 1 they're like, everything. I want to put you on a pedestal.
I love you so much. And then go.

Speaker 2 If you're saying, I love you with the intent to get laid

Speaker 1 and you don't, you know, yeah, kind of.

Speaker 1 Can you fall in love and fall out of love that quickly?

Speaker 2 Well, I think there are people who just get excited and are emotionally immature and they actually maybe think they're in love.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then like a week later, like, oh. I guess I just want to have sex with you.

Speaker 1 What is the most American thing you've been doing since you've been here?

Speaker 5 The most American thing? Driving on the opposite side of the road.

Speaker 5 Bloody hell. The first six months I was petrified.

Speaker 1 Driving in ongoing traffic. Getting all of y'all wrong.

Speaker 1 I was getting in the wrong side of the car every time.

Speaker 5 My friends are like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 You guys in what, Libya?

Speaker 1 There's like two countries.

Speaker 1 Libya or Labia.

Speaker 2 There's an African country, I believe, that drives on the wrong side of the.

Speaker 1 Majora or Menorah?

Speaker 1 That's really weird. What's Menorah?

Speaker 2 But you guys are the odd man, huh?

Speaker 1 The inner, I believe. Labia menorah, I believe, is the inner.

Speaker 1 Oh, well. Or your vagina.

Speaker 5 I thought we were talking about countries.

Speaker 2 We thought you segued into vaginas.

Speaker 1 Nick said Libya and you said labia.

Speaker 5 Because there's a... Okay, right.
I get the connect now.

Speaker 1 Is it really only Australia in I don't even think it's Australia?

Speaker 5 I don't think Australia drives on.

Speaker 2 I think it's just the UK.

Speaker 1 Really? On the left side of the road, correct? It's got to be more places than that. It says United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, India, Japan, and many Caribbean islands.
And I think

Speaker 2 New Zealand does. I've been there.

Speaker 1 What am I talking about? But other than that, I don't know.

Speaker 5 I mean,

Speaker 1 you have a lot of

Speaker 1 chicken, a lot of sauce, a lot of all of it.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I feel like you just have to drive everywhere.

Speaker 5 There's not really much to do.

Speaker 2 So wait, wait, back to the British boys. Like they just, they're, are they mean at first?

Speaker 1 Are they hard to read?

Speaker 5 Hard to read, mean. And it stays pretty consistent.

Speaker 2 So, so what I'm hearing is the UK men are just up front sucky. Yes.
And the American men pretend not to be sucky at first, but then you eventually find out they're also sucky. Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yes.
So all of them just suck at the end of the day.

Speaker 5 Only the ones that I've met.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 How many do you feel like you've met personally in your go-arounds? Do you know what? I think

Speaker 5 I don't.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 In general, as a whole, or just in America?

Speaker 1 Because this is a very, very broad question. I think as a whole.
Okay. All of them? Um, I've met a few, yeah.
Yeah. Quite a few.

Speaker 5 I think, yeah, it's almost like homework for me.

Speaker 1 Well, back to school. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 5 I need to understand the minds of men.

Speaker 5 One thing, if I had children, I would definitely say travel the world, date men, have sex with a condom, obviously.

Speaker 5 But with you don't have to wait months to have sex with someone, I don't think, you know?

Speaker 1 You're like, do you feel like that messes with the chances of maybe having something because I know a lot of women are always like oh you can't have sex the first day they'll think I'm easy they won't want to date me like do you think that's valid or do you think that's all in our women's heads no i think

Speaker 5 50 50 i think it all depends on the vibes of the date I mean, if you're emotionally mature enough to understand that you're an adult, he's an adult, you're vibing, he's sexy, you're sexy, and it's like, okay, this is, I just want to have sex with you.

Speaker 5 I think you're allowed to do that. You're an adult as long as it's consensual.

Speaker 5 But then on the flip hand, if it's like you, just me, I'm going to talk on my perspective, me going out there and just being like, I just want to have sex with everyone.

Speaker 5 I'm allowed to do that. But is it going to be perceived as,

Speaker 5 okay, she probably doesn't

Speaker 1 want something serious. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's valid.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's valid. Nick, what's your take on that?

Speaker 2 I think timelines are useless. I think a guy will wait.

Speaker 2 Guys love a goal. Give him six months.
He'll wait six months. Give him two days.
He'll wait two days.

Speaker 2 I think if you

Speaker 2 think if you, I think you said it perfectly, if you want to have sex, you should have sex because that's how you're gonna get a sex.

Speaker 2 If you're having sex because you think he'll like you more, he won't.

Speaker 1 No, he never will.

Speaker 2 Definitely not. He'll like you more by not having sex.

Speaker 2 Once he has sex with you, he's like, oh, I guess I just wanted to have sex with you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Men don't know that until after they have sex with you, but they think they're interested until they're in to it.

Speaker 1 Kind of.

Speaker 2 You know, they just.

Speaker 1 thing I was

Speaker 1 future.

Speaker 1 Won't be a second date. Like, just checking the oil.
They're like, nah, no, they're not going to have it.

Speaker 1 That's so.

Speaker 2 And that can happen even if you make them wait six weeks or six dates.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I think what we've learned is men are disgusting. Yeah,

Speaker 1 honestly.

Speaker 1 And we are just so lovely.

Speaker 5 You know what I'm saying? Women are so

Speaker 1 attractive

Speaker 5 and sexy. Yes.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 5 we smell good. We do.

Speaker 1 We have soft, supple skin. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Only if we moisturize. Mine's pretty scaly right now.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 But you smell amazing.

Speaker 5 Do you know what expectation I hate? And I want to know about you girls, right?

Speaker 5 I shave every two days. Sorry, Nick.
Women conversation.

Speaker 1 No, because like

Speaker 1 shaving.

Speaker 1 That seems like a lot. Sometimes,

Speaker 5 no, because I get hairy.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 Like my legs, my hair's like black.

Speaker 1 I've only got highlights in the background.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Breach into the choir. So if I have to shave all the time, I'm like, ah!

Speaker 1 Nick will make, like, like, if I do this, will you shave your legs yet? Or no?

Speaker 1 Not that it's a negotiation compromise.

Speaker 1 It's like, if I go and get you a coffee this morning, will you maybe shave your legs when you take a shower or no i'm like i don't think today is the day for that

Speaker 1 tomorrow but okay but make sure it's iced yeah you shave every two days i have to and that's the expectation that you hate is that like to be like yeah but

Speaker 5 if my armpits get a little bit hairy i'm like

Speaker 1 if i want to go to a club and i put my hands up people gonna look at me and be like oh shabba shabana but then should i care no why do i care i don't know because we're conditioned. We have to.

Speaker 1 We're all conditioned that way. I saw a TikTok of a man and he said, I'm sick.
He said something about like girl, women always being like, oh, I haven't shaved. I haven't shaved.

Speaker 1 And he was like, I eat the sticker on an apple.

Speaker 1 You do. It's so true, though.
They don't. Nasty shit.
Y'all don't care. So, like,

Speaker 1 you know? Yeah. Why do I care? I don't.
Nick made me get a massage once.

Speaker 1 They date you.

Speaker 1 He told me.

Speaker 1 No. He shaved

Speaker 1 that massage.

Speaker 1 That's a great, that's a a great thing to be able to do. But he didn't tell me that it wasn't a massage.

Speaker 1 It was a lymphatic stretch. So

Speaker 1 me and my bush walked into that room and she had my leg all the way up here and my bush was in her face. So that's something that we as a couple did have to work through.

Speaker 5 I actually walked in on my mom giving my neighbor a full-on Brazilian wax. Neighbor? When I was younger.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 5 And I thought, oh, my mom's, she's lesbian. She's cheating on my dad.
She's going to be. She's got her face because my neighbor was like laying on the couch, legs up.
My mum was like

Speaker 5 down there.

Speaker 5 I walked in.

Speaker 5 I must have been six years old or something.

Speaker 1 And I've walked out and gone, oh no.

Speaker 5 I'm like, planning the divorce. My dad's going to leave and this is going to happen.

Speaker 5 You know, when you're a kid and you're sat in your bedroom and you're like, oh no, I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders.

Speaker 1 Dad's house. What am I? Am I going to tell him? Yeah.
Who's going to take the dogs? The neighbor's like,

Speaker 1 oh, no, they're having so much fun in this.

Speaker 1 They were just literally crying.

Speaker 5 The funny thing is, I only brought it up to her a little while ago.

Speaker 1 I was like, mum, because I'm in therapy. I said, that was a very traumatizing moment for me.

Speaker 5 And she said, obviously, I kind of knew that she was just waxing her vagina, but she went, I didn't actually realize that you'd walked in. Otherwise, I would have said something.

Speaker 5 I said, yeah, that was a bit weird that you didn't say anything, but she didn't know that I'd walked in.

Speaker 1 She was so just knee-deep

Speaker 1 in the coot. She didn't realize you had entered the room.
You're like, and neither did the neighbor.

Speaker 1 You're not making eye contact with your mom, but dinner, you're like, maybe that's why I shave.

Speaker 1 Every time

Speaker 2 you cracked the goat. You don't want anyone to think you're cheating.

Speaker 1 No, you've cracked the goat.

Speaker 1 Just get laser.

Speaker 2 It looks like a very fun show, and we're excited that you are a part of it. It's sneaky links.
It's out tomorrow on Netflix. Check it out.

Speaker 2 If you are in the mood for some scandalous dating hookups, some secrets, some sneaky links. This is the show for you.
And congratulations on hosting the show.

Speaker 1 Very cool experience. Oh, I appreciate you guys.
What's that call like? I cried.

Speaker 5 Like, first of all, I didn't even think I was going to get it. Like, one of the execs from Netflix called me and he's like, Chloe, because over the years, they've pitched loads of shows.

Speaker 5 They're like, we want you to do this. We want you to do that.
And it gets to a point where you become disheartened. You're like, it's just never going to happen.
Okay, whatever.

Speaker 5 I'm just going to start waxing vaginas.

Speaker 5 I got a call and they said Chloe we've got a show it's like in development right now we want you to be the host and I'm like okay but then I didn't get too excited a couple of weeks later they were like okay the date's locked in then the negotiations start happening like I haven't been paid as much as I've been paid from any show even combined to host so now I'm like

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 5 I think I could do this forever.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 2 Netflix employed. Yeah, I'm part of the bus.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then it must be cool because obviously Netflix has a plethora of

Speaker 2 talent that I'm sure many of them were, you know, I mean, come on, you got it, like you're competing a little bit with your peers is what I'm saying. And like, you, you know, you're not.

Speaker 1 It's always like a, you know, it's always like a job that many of them wish they would have gotten, you know, right?

Speaker 5 I mean, I did get that envious feeling when Melinda done.

Speaker 5 her dating and related and I was like, oh, I would love to do that. No, envy isn't the right word.
It's almost like,

Speaker 1 oh, wow.

Speaker 5 Like, because motivation. Yeah, it was motivating because no one had ever done it before.

Speaker 5 No one's ever really been talent tent host on Netflix.

Speaker 5 Now there's a couple people, and now I am. I'm like, oh, okay.

Speaker 5 I just hope it gets the second season. So please watch it, guys.

Speaker 1 Please watch it.

Speaker 5 Stream, stream, stream, stream, stream.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 Well, watch it. Check it out.

Speaker 2 Sounds like you guys are going to love it. We're excited to watch it.
It's out tomorrow. Chloe,

Speaker 2 other than on Netflix, where can people find you?

Speaker 5 You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Chloe Veach. Veach.
All right. V-E-I-T-C-H.

Speaker 1 Well, thanks for coming, Chloe. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, questions asked and answered.

Speaker 2 If nothing else, I think it's going to be hot people hooking up. So I'll be watching this.

Speaker 1 She's always beautiful, you know. She's always fun to be.

Speaker 2 Let's do Summer House. Did Lexi carry this season?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Loki.
She gave us the drama. Honestly.
Yeah. If it wasn't for Lexi, we wouldn't have the drama with Sierra and Jesse.
I mean, Sierra, Jesse, West, Jesse.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm like, I'm just like, there's just like, it's not even like that there's like atomic bombs being blown up. It's just like little fires everywhere.

Speaker 2 Do we care about anything else?

Speaker 1 Not really. No.
Why? There hasn't been really any other interesting storylines.

Speaker 1 Well, we had the like Paige and Craig breakup kind of in the beginning, but then it's like that storyline's completely dropped off.

Speaker 6 Did you catch what she said in this episode? And she's like, I'm in a happy, healthy relationship.

Speaker 1 I didn't hear that. And I was like, oh, great.
I just never see him. Yeah.
Well, we did have Lynn.

Speaker 2 I feel like the moment where Lindsay brought up her anniversary of her breakup post.

Speaker 1 She activated.

Speaker 2 Either it was the producers going to Lindsay or Lindsay going to the producers and being like,

Speaker 2 I just give me this. I just, I've been living in a room, not being a part of the season, doing absolutely nothing.

Speaker 2 Or maybe the producers are like, hey, do you know, like, can we get a little something from you? I know you're like, you know, all about happy, healthy Lindsay, keeping your peace.

Speaker 2 Can you just be petty for no reason for a second? I mean, completely, we agree this is like an absurd video for her to post.

Speaker 1 The caption was absolutely absurd, but it kind of like feels like she, I think she's completely over Carl, but I don't think she's over like just taking the jobs at Carl because I'm like, what other reason are we doing?

Speaker 1 Maybe gender reveal. Maybe so.
Also, scavenger haunt. West has never been more afraid for his life when he was like, I read your post.
And she was like, okay.

Speaker 1 And he was like, I didn't see it, but I read it. And she was like, so you didn't see it, but you read it.
And he's like, well, I didn't. And she's like, is there something you want to say?

Speaker 1 He's like, well, no.

Speaker 1 literally literally like he was a panic

Speaker 1 well let me ask you this what's the line of

Speaker 1 move on versus you know you get to keep talking at some point and as someone i'm just saying i know what it's like to be carl yeah like i felt bad for carl at the dinner where i'm just like first off you brought the sandwiches and she's like i brought better sandwiches

Speaker 2 but like lindsay is pregnant with someone else's child and carl did do her a favor and Carl, despite her hating it in the moment and her graciously coming on this show to talk mad shit about Carl post-breakup, which we all appreciated, she should be thanking Carl in a genuine way, not in a petty sort of like, I move on despite I don't think she's in a genuine place quite yet.

Speaker 1 Whatever. She doesn't have to really.

Speaker 2 The reality is that she is having someone else's baby. It wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Carl, like maybe seeing the light.

Speaker 2 All that being said, like, I'm just saying I know what it's like to be Carl and having people just like not get over the fact that someday in this lifetime, you two had some kind of connection and that connection's fucking over.

Speaker 2 And maybe we can just move on and maybe you can find a different way to get engagement or clicks. I'm just saying I know what it's like and it's pretty fucking annoying.

Speaker 1 But also you do have to put in context that this is

Speaker 1 a year, less than a year after the breakup. It was a year.
A year.

Speaker 1 I mean, but they, but they've been filming before this episode for a while. So it was less than a year that she's been like back living with her ex-fiancé.

Speaker 1 I'm sure she's re-triggered by a lot of things. It's only been less than a year.

Speaker 1 But she hasn't given birth yet. She hasn't like had that connection of like, oh my God, this is like what I was carrying.
I can't even think about my life before now having held this baby.

Speaker 1 She's kind of like back living with her ex, back getting re-triggered by like everything he did. It was only like

Speaker 1 10, 11 months ago.

Speaker 2 If I'm the new boyfriend, hate it.

Speaker 1 I'm going to. Turner seems to be very chill.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 so maybe, you know, she's kind of agree with Nick here in the sense that I'm like, we made choices.

Speaker 1 I don't think that anybody should have to not be on this show based off of an ex or based off of a relationship or it's anybody's responsibility, but you did make a choice to come on and spend your pregnant summer with the ex-fiancé who you claim to have humiliated you.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, it just seems like these are just like a dig after dig, week after week of like, how do I make Carl uncomfortable in this house? I love it.

Speaker 1 And I'm just like, I don't, I just, it's, it's kind of me. Funny.
It is.

Speaker 3 Well, it's also like Lindsay's, when the reveal of Lindsay like coming back pregnant with another guy's baby to her ex-boyfriend Carl and living with him, all I want to see in that as a viewer is mess.

Speaker 2 Listen, again, in the terms of this show, it was a funny moment. I'm just saying, practically speaking, it's like Carl throwing jabs too.

Speaker 3 Carl's like, she's not over it.

Speaker 1 Well, she's not. But he's not throwing jabs.
That's just like his reaction.

Speaker 1 He's tried to apologize. He tried to be like, hey, like, let's let's be cool this summer.

Speaker 3 No, I just want to see them throw more jabs at each other.

Speaker 1 That's right. Like, she's, that's where I'm like, she's pregnant with somebody else's baby.
Like, doing this, it'd be one thing if, like, if not, or she wasn't in a new relationship, then, like, fine.

Speaker 1 But I'm just like, enjoy being pregnant. Enjoy your new relationship.

Speaker 2 The conversation that this episode opened up with with Sierra and Jesse having like some kind of serious friend heart to heart.

Speaker 2 Like, if you're doing that with someone of the opposite sex that's not your girlfriend and you are supposedly in a, in a new dating situation and you're pursuing a relationship couldn't be me I'm just saying that conversation that Sierra and Jesse had like someone wants to have sex with someone in that scenario I don't there's just no point to have that serious of a conversation about each other's feelings and how one person might feel disrespected or or needs you to prioritize them some

Speaker 1 that is I will say they they clearly had a friendship for a while I mean they met last year they've had a friendship I mean, I think like the whole time, if Jesse, I would take it a little bit more serious if we hadn't watched Jesse so overly flirt with her for the past two years, two summers.

Speaker 1 Like, I feel like maybe I would have taken that conversation a little bit more to the heart where it's like, oh no, he just genuinely like misses his friend Sierra and he doesn't like that they're in this like weird limbo friendship where she's kind of being mean to him and he like doesn't understand why.

Speaker 1 But it does, it does raise some flags when like you definitely want to fuck her. And, like, you have been non-stop flirting with her.

Speaker 1 You've crossed very many boundaries when you're supposed to be in a relationship with Lexi.

Speaker 1 So, if I'm Lexi, I'm also like, this is a weird conversation to be having.

Speaker 1 And I also have to say, I'm like, it doesn't feel like Jesse was like so much upset about like where his friendship is with Sierra as much as he was upset about the names that he was being called.

Speaker 1 He was like, it hurt my feelings. You called me two-faced.
You called me a liar. And it's like, but you are two-faced and you are a liar.
So, where did she stutter?

Speaker 1 What does she apologize for?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, just he doesn't want to be like the type of liar that women call a narcissist or a monster.

Speaker 1 Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 It's like it's about the like you're cock blocking me for the future, but I know I'm supposed to be in this committed relationship with Lexi, and I know that we're really good friends, but like, you guys were really cock blocking me for when the season ends.

Speaker 1 That's how that felt. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Jesse's never going to change.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 And he's never going to have to.

Speaker 1 Also, Kyle was that was dirty. What part? Where Kyle goes to Lexi and he's like, Were you talking about Sierra? Because that whole thing up there was about Sierra.

Speaker 1 And like, it really was the one comment. I liked it.
He did the right comment. I kind of liked it too.

Speaker 1 It felt very like Kyle's stir in the pot. See, and that's the thing.
In the past, he usually does, but he's like messy with it. But I'm just like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 For me, I'm like, I would appreciate knowing that the man that I'm sitting here, like debating whether or not I'm going to stay with, literally just ran right behind me and goes, this is why she broke up with me.

Speaker 1 And that Sierra comment came out of nowhere. Like, he's pretty edited it out there.
Like, Lexi said, she said, I didn't mention Sierra's name once outside.

Speaker 1 I wonder if she said it like in person after, you know, like maybe not in that conversation, but had said it to him in person when they were hanging out in between the U.S.

Speaker 1 Open and coming to film for Summerhouse. And he's like, using that.
But this is the problem I have with Jesse: it's like the question that was asked was, What was that conversation outside about?

Speaker 1 And he was like, She's mad that I had a nice time with Sierra. Not what she said.
said, not the conversation that was had.

Speaker 1 You couldn't wait to throw her under the bus and have everybody on your side and fuck that girl. And like, that's what I don't like about him.
He is two-faced.

Speaker 2 He'll never change, though. You know what?

Speaker 1 Did you him talking? Everything that he says is the most like eye-roll comment. I mean, he's him talking about Paige.
I don't know where I saw, I saw a clip of it.

Speaker 1 He was talking about Paige about how she's the funniest girl ever and she's so relatable. She'll go out and she'll order a Coke, not a Diet Coke, but a Coke, a regular Coke.
And it's like, okay.

Speaker 1 Him talking about his exes. He's like, yeah.
And none of them were just like excited about their careers. Like, none of them were.
What do you do, Jesse?

Speaker 1 First of all, we talked to Lexi for like 90 minutes.

Speaker 2 She's

Speaker 1 very excited about her career.

Speaker 2 We learned a lot about Lexi.

Speaker 1 There's a lot going on.

Speaker 2 It sounds like we had a conversation that Jesse never had with her.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 About herself. About herself.
Yeah, literally.

Speaker 2 I guess he'll never change because

Speaker 2 Professor Scott Galloway, I'm a fan of his work. He talks a lot about like the digitization.

Speaker 1 Digitization? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Of internet dating and how it's made dating for women, for all women, just a little bit worse. Oh, yeah.
And then made for a small percentage of men, Jesse.

Speaker 1 A little bit better.

Speaker 2 Amazing.

Speaker 2 Amazing. Because like everyone online thinks they have access to the 1% available to them, the 6'4 people who make a little bit of money.
And then it's just trash for all the average.

Speaker 2 I guess the average, an average-looking man, so average is whatever you think it is,

Speaker 2 has to swipe right a thousand times to get one coffee date. And then four out of five of those women will ghost him.
Ooh. While Jesse Saliban is out there just being like,

Speaker 2 and he can just, he'll get unlimited chances to.

Speaker 1 I feel like maybe not after this. I don't know.
He's still. Maybe he'll get more.
He still will.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 They'll probably eat him.

Speaker 1 He's getting eaten alive for this.

Speaker 2 On the internet, but when he walks out in New York, there will always be plenty of people who think they can't get it.

Speaker 1 He's the one who's talked the most shit about him, too. That's going to be like, hey.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, you cannot believe that I hooked up with that disgusting slime ball. Yeah.
You went for him.

Speaker 2 Anyways, congratulations, Lexi. You really handled yourself quite well

Speaker 2 throughout this season. And that's how you break up.

Speaker 1 Finales next week. So I'm excited to see how this ends.

Speaker 2 All right. Secret Lives of Mormon Wives time before we get to the interview of Jesse and Michaela.
You know, Miranda, maybe it's just like rookie, rookie season.

Speaker 2 You know, we enjoyed our conversation of going deeper with her.

Speaker 2 She gave a lot there, but she seemed to be kind of afraid of all the women this season.

Speaker 1 Understanding. Oh, they weren't the most welcoming.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That intro. That's like, dance.
Let's see what you got.

Speaker 3 It does seem like one of the most terrifying environments to have to enter into as an newbie.

Speaker 2 Like the one person you know is the person you had a falling out with

Speaker 2 because you are in each other's husbands, kind of had a thing or not.

Speaker 1 Huge public fallout information exposed about you against your will.

Speaker 2 Your one ally is Whitney.

Speaker 1 Maybe that must be a little frustrating on Miranda's part of just kind of like, bitch, I was a fucking OG. I started this shit.
Really?

Speaker 1 Like, y'all about to tell me I can't be in mom talk when I like helped create this.

Speaker 1 Well, that's why it was so funny to me at the beginning of the first episode, where it was just like, oh my God, wait, is that Miranda? Oh, my God. Like, she was in mom talk.

Speaker 1 And it was just like, girls, don't act like you haven't seen her. Like we remember the, the, the contracts.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I, I don't think we realize when like this group of women who make up this show are a small percentage of all the moms of Utah and Salt Lake City.

Speaker 2 And the aspiring mom talkers are, we've learned talking to these women, like, there's a lot of them. There's thousands of them.

Speaker 2 So even though like Taylor knew Miranda, I honestly don't think a lot of these women, like, they weren't like friends with her. Like they didn't fuck with her.

Speaker 2 So I think for a lot of them, like it was their first time meeting her? Maybe not their first time meeting.

Speaker 2 I don't know about that, but I don't think it was like this person they've been hanging out with on the regular on the side and then they pretended to not know her coming.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying, like, I didn't know anything about mom talk. I mean, I knew mom talk before Secret Lives, but like I knew Taylor, Miranda, and Camille were like the originators.

Speaker 2 Sure, that's because like this all started through the scandal, which I think a lot of these women, like the Demis and the Jens, weren't a part of that scandal and weren't friends.

Speaker 2 I don't, you know what I'm saying? Like this group came together after the fact.

Speaker 1 So was Camille not involved in the swinging? She was just

Speaker 1 a trio kind of. Yeah, it was Miranda, Camille, and Taylor.
And then she, yeah.

Speaker 6 Because people speculated it was Camille when Taylor did that original like TikTok live, but then it was like Miranda that came out being like, those are lies.

Speaker 1 There was like the whole like negotiations for casting or something. And remember, it was like they were talking about Miranda and Camille like saying like, I would never do that or whatever.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because because I don't want don't want to be on a show with Taylor.

Speaker 1 But like I'm glad she's on it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also the dinner at Taylor's parents' house when Dakota comes. It's a tough watch.
I was so mad. Yeah.
That was hard. I had to turn off the TV.
That was hard.

Speaker 1 What did you do like to allow him to come over and sleep when I was her dad like calling her easy was

Speaker 1 I'm just watching trauma wounds being opened.

Speaker 1 It was also tough to like, and I don't obviously know their dynamic, but to like not see her sisters or her mom be like oh that was a little far honey maybe maybe let's not go there i mean and it was also like the comparison of like yeah he may have cheated on you but you let him come over to your house after the fact and she's like i didn't know and this is why i want you to be on my side what he did to me was

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's, it's tough. I know, I, you know, we, we now see Taylor, though, obviously defending her family in the comments.
I don't want to like, I mean, inappropriate for sure. Tough, tough watch.

Speaker 2 Definitely would have loved Dakota to have stood up for his lady in that moment.

Speaker 1 Anyone to stand up.

Speaker 2 But especially Dakota. I mean, like, I mean, when, you know, like.

Speaker 1 Well, Dakota, we watch Dakota time after time. Halloween party.
He doesn't stand up for her. I mean, he's like, him and Chase are going at Taylor.
Like, he does not stand up for her. I know.

Speaker 2 It is a weird moment, though. I mean, we've talked about this, but when you were pregnant on Thanksgiving,

Speaker 2 and that was the first time I had experienced like men in your family making like remarks about like

Speaker 2 your body, which wasn't meant maliciously, but was the first, and it wasn't like I had to like confront them, but I made some like remarks about their comments in a like a passive, aggressive way, which was weird to do, but like still necessary.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 That's not nice.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I just remember, I just, I think it's like, what's with all the guys in this family, like commenting on pregnant women's bodies? And I kind of said that aloud and they all kind of awkwardly.

Speaker 2 Her brother was very kind and handled appropriately after the fact. But yeah, he just doesn't, yeah, Dakota doesn't.

Speaker 1 It's almost like he like, not like he enjoys it happening to Taylor, but but it's like he enjoys the support for himself that it's just like we're being on the same side as somebody else, that it's just like, he just does not have her back no matter what.

Speaker 2 Which I listen, I think what we know about Dakota and Taylor is they are antagonistic with each other.

Speaker 2 I mean, we've all been in those types of relationships where you just, you know, it's the hurt people hurt people and they're constantly hurting each other.

Speaker 2 And I think they both feel like a victim of the other person.

Speaker 2 So, you know, they can't get out of how they feel victimized in this relationship.

Speaker 2 You know, they can't see the forest through the trees right you know i mean and taylor that whole scene where she's going through the text message like it's like it's it's gonna be taylor's always so in control when she's activated it's i think that's why we love taylor so much you can tell she's triggered but like she she has this level of calmness that makes her seem so very in control like when she's going through the text messages or you know when she's confronting one of the ladies she's just she is She never loses it completely.

Speaker 1 Until it's that time.

Speaker 2 That was insane. But even then, she's articulate.
You know, she's she doesn't lose her composure. So many people do.

Speaker 1 And then we cry, but it's like she's not doing anything a step before. I can't remember what episode it was.

Speaker 1 Maybe it was Halloween, but it was like somebody was like narrating her confrontation, being like, she's, she's cocking her head to the side. You know what that means?

Speaker 1 Taylor's, Taylor's getting activated. And it's like these tells where it's like, she's processing, she's taking in everything.
And then when she strikes, it's so beautiful. It is.

Speaker 6 Well, she does like a head nod. She's like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Her eyes get all like

Speaker 1 she's incredible. I am reading.
I am processing and I'm about to eviscerate you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So the best part is watching these women attempt to go after Taylor and then she does the whole. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And they're like,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 I love you.

Speaker 3 I wish I could. God, to be able to eviscerate someone like that is the

Speaker 1 skill. It's a skill.

Speaker 3 I do not have it and I kind of wish I did. I would only use it for good.

Speaker 2 Is Demi trying too hard so far?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 From like did she come into the season feeling like a little confident about her position in mom talk?

Speaker 3 As a fan favorite.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Is it possible? And it's like this, the competing with Taylor, where I'm like, Taylor is just on her own tip.

Speaker 1 Like she's really not focused on what's going on in the other girls, in the other girls' lives outside of herself. And then it's like, Demi is just so focused on what everyone else is doing.
Fuck Jen.

Speaker 1 Jen doesn't tell the truth. Taylor's behavior.
Like it's just like, why don't you just take a take a beat?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but even I don't mind the shit talking because even like Michaela is talking more shit this season jesse is louder this season but they they seem to be doing in a way that doesn't come across as trying to reclaim a position that's what it's gonna say you know what i'm saying demi's doing that thing where she's trying to have like secret cahoots with other people so everyone's on the same page when i confront this person you're you have my back where michaela's just like i'm not i don't need to sit around i could talk behind your back but i also will say it straight to your face in the moment no hesitation i'm like demi is kind of like sneaky about it and then tries to act like it's like oh well everybody feels this way but like I didn't originate this thought where she did and she's not owning that.

Speaker 2 Well, we'll hear Jesse's version of the whole contract negotiations, but when they talk about it in the next batch of episodes, the way to me is just like, no, it's just like there was just like a misunderstanding and like everything's fine now.

Speaker 2 And then when we hear Jesse's version, she's like, she did what?

Speaker 1 She said what?

Speaker 2 You know, it's two different versions.

Speaker 1 She's giving

Speaker 1 wolf in sheep's clothing is what Demi is giving for me this season. It's good to watch.

Speaker 1 As I said, I'm entertained. I am hooked.
I have not been able to stop watching it. I'm already ready to re-watch it.
I was like, I'm going to wait for the finale. I had to get through the whole thing.

Speaker 1 There was no way that I was stopping at episode nine. It was so good.

Speaker 2 I don't know what they all, like Jesse and Demi's big problem with Jen is.

Speaker 2 Why are they trying so hard to take out Jen?

Speaker 1 I don't know unless it's this whole like Demi.

Speaker 1 Vanderpump Villa stuff because there's that. Jen hasn't done anything.

Speaker 6 I mean, the whole like her talking to Zach and her being like, Well, you told me that we were related to Ben Affleck. And he's like, I never said that.
You made that up.

Speaker 6 And she's like, No, you told me. And he's like, I literally never said that.

Speaker 2 But that's like literally Jen's biggest crime, which is like leaning into a silly rubber.

Speaker 1 Which you know, I'm sure his family has been like, the afflex, oh yeah, like they're our cousin.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm sure that when they first met, it was like a joke that maybe she wasn't under the impression it was a joke.

Speaker 2 And sweet little Mormon Jen was this like really

Speaker 1 god. Yes.

Speaker 2 We're getting an yeah we're famous they didn't anticipate jen being famous and telling the world and they're like no no no no no no no actually we're just kidding yeah right she ruined that whole family's reputation back in provo it's kind of more charming than it is evil though yeah i just i feel like from what i can gather that's kind of her biggest crime and then maybe you know with the whole like you know halloween party she didn't relay the message to zach the best possible way But I'm like, to be fair, where I'm just like, whatever issues they may have, like, I'm like, whatever goes on in her relationship, like, they need to work that out.

Speaker 1 But it's like weird that the other women are so like, wow, Zach, like, they didn't tell, well, she didn't tell, well, I communicated. And it's just like, oh, okay.
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 It's like, it's like, you guys are trying to ruin her relationship. It's also like, yeah, they're trying to like be the middleman of their relationship and be like, well, did she tell you this?

Speaker 1 And Zach's like, well, I mean, not in. And it's like, well, but about this, did she tell you that? And it's like, just let them be a married couple.
Thank you. And figure it out on their own.

Speaker 6 I think, Natalie, you nailed it because even I was kind of awestruck when Demi and Brett had said that jen scapegoated him for the money in vegas when it was his money but said it was him gambling her money yeah so it's very interesting that i think they're so quick to try to expose the fact that they think she's like scapegoating him for like being a bad person when does it really matter you know we'll see but uh we left season one hating zach everyone you know if it wasn't whitney uh zach was maybe the biggest villain of the season but like i don't like

Speaker 2 And maybe some people will never forgive him for his haircut season one or just like some people just like hate his face. You know, some people hate my face.
You know, they'll never get over it.

Speaker 2 But I think there's a world where Zach might redeem himself a little bit. He seems like he's just said, I'm going to go ahead and be a husband.
Better, yeah. You know, he got a haircut.

Speaker 1 Got a haircut. Quit medical school.

Speaker 2 I mean, even if you say, oh, well, not because he's making money. Either way, you're talking about a man who grew up in a very patriarchal society.

Speaker 2 And this is a man who's choosing his, who's quitting his dreams to support his wife's. I'm just saying, like, we should acknowledge that a little bit.
You know, we'll see if it's real.

Speaker 2 We'll see how long it lasts, but steps in the right direction.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 preach.

Speaker 2 Well, anyways, let's hear from Jesse and Michaela first. And listen, people, you know, there's a lot in this season to break down.
We're going to be talking about this show for a few weeks now.

Speaker 2 We're not the ones who chose for them to like drop it all at once. So like we will be breaking down things.

Speaker 2 If we didn't get to your favorite scene today, chances are it's in this interview with Jesse and Michaela. Don't worry.
We have Macy and Layla on Thursday. Reality recap going deeper.

Speaker 2 I will say we were supposed to have Taylor, but some drama happened between Dakota and Taylor that morning, which seems to be an ongoing thing. So they're still making each other's lives miserable.

Speaker 2 Yeah, something happened late at night. You know, they were filming season three.
I don't know. I was going to say, hopefully being season three.

Speaker 1 Lots of detail. I am pretty sure Macy gives us some insight on that on Thursday.

Speaker 2 So anyways, Jesse and Michaela.

Speaker 1 We're just trying to live up to the version of us that Jeff and Steve think that we are. Obviously, those are our pets.

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Speaker 1 That was literally me yesterday with a strawberry. Can they eat strawberries? Because I did let Steve eat that strawberry.
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Speaker 2 Jesse Michaela, welcome back.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 5 I'm not back in the corner this time.

Speaker 1 I know I can actually see you and hear you.

Speaker 1 Crazy.

Speaker 5 I'm like, oh, I get, you know, first chair.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I can literally hear you.

Speaker 1 Was that trauma of being in back? Yes.

Speaker 5 You know, it brought up all my wounds from therapy about not being good enough.

Speaker 1 Well, I gotta say, you really, literally.

Speaker 2 You really showed up this season.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Well, you are front and center of the drama. You are, you know, I heard you were stirring the pot.

Speaker 5 I mean, I haven't watched it, but in all the press, they're like, Jesse really is.

Speaker 1 Oh, someone texted me a podcast where I was like, you're messy. Honestly, you are messy.
Both of you. Oh.

Speaker 2 I say this with love and a compliment to someone who, again, more than anything, just a fan.

Speaker 1 Okay, good. Thank you.
Simply just a fan of

Speaker 2 both of you of the show. You both found your voice through both your voice and your actions.

Speaker 2 Specifically, you, Jesse. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you definitely

Speaker 1 was front and center. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But anyways, so yeah, was that trauma putting you in back there? What really catapulted?

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's why I stepped it up season two.

Speaker 2 I find it fascinating that you ladies,

Speaker 2 we're recording this before the season has dropped. You ladies haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 How do you, you're nervous? Yeah. Have you fought with the producers?

Speaker 5 No, I'm the favorite. So like I,

Speaker 5 I'm like, I never fight them. I feel like we've asked a little bit though.
Yeah, we get irritated, but also I feel like our producers are very sarcastic like me.

Speaker 5 So if I, if I'm saying things, it's like I'm annoying, but I'm still going to do it. And they know that.
I just like to give them shit.

Speaker 1 But it's also, I'm sure, because everyone you're talking to has seen it and they're all like, oh, this and oh, that.

Speaker 5 And we lived it, but we have no idea, obviously, how it's put together, what was cut and stuff. And so it's hard to like, know you guys have seen it.
And we have no idea what the edit is.

Speaker 5 Well, it's funny when they ask me about it, because they do call you Messy Jesse.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 5 they tease about all the events. They're like, and Chase was invited.
Oh, Jesse invited him. And this person was invited.
Oh, Jesse invited him.

Speaker 1 And they're like, interesting. Whoops, it's just something too nice.
No, you aren't. Everyone involved.
Jesse is a yes girl. She's too nice.

Speaker 2 I am. So is that really, is that what it is? You're just...

Speaker 5 I have a hard time, yeah, saying no to people. And so I feel like I'm a people pleaser, which can be

Speaker 2 not, it's not necessarily Machiavellian in the sense where you're like, who's not here?

Speaker 1 I feel like. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 5 What can I do to make this dramatic?

Speaker 2 It's not.

Speaker 1 But hey, it made good TV, right? No, no. Again, thank you.
I'm just like,

Speaker 2 but I'm just curious, like the human Jesse, like what is what is

Speaker 5 people pleasing for sure people pleasing yes okay i think even after the halloween party she's like i had no idea this was gonna happen like crying i'm like what do you mean i told you that i told you i didn't know chase that well at all i think i had met him one time yeah but he had friends with his girlfriend yes very

Speaker 2 honestly that's a great place to start because i think I think a lot of fans, me included, obviously we know that mom talk started with like Miranda and Taylor and the whole swinging scandal.

Speaker 2 And obviously we talk about that a lot and that gets brought up a lot. But like, I don't feel like everyone fully knows like who was friends with who, who really knew each other.

Speaker 2 Like how close were all of you women before this all like really got together mom talk wise? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, how did you all, like, how did you get brought into the group?

Speaker 5 So Macy actually brought me in. Okay.
And it's funny because in Utah, like there's a big group of influencers and we all go to events together and like, it's like a little community.

Speaker 5 So we were all intertwined in that community. Like how many it's like if we haven't met, you know, 50 to 100 people.

Speaker 1 yeah, really.

Speaker 5 So, like, you would go to an event and see people. So, like, Macy and I knew each other because of that.
I had actually done Whitney's hair for two years before the show. Jesse's mom did my hair once.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Michaela's been to my salon. So, we all knew of each other.
Like, I am responsible for Whitney's ever-changing hair in season one, you know? So, like, I knew Whitney. That was you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 So, I knew Whitney really well. And then Macy referred me because she just, I guess, thought I would be good because she knew of me.

Speaker 5 But there was that mom talk group that was really close for a while, but it was like more business, right? What year was that? Because we started pilot 2022, end of 2022.

Speaker 5 And that was me, Macy, Whitney, Taylor. And then Taylor got arrested.

Speaker 1 We got her. We held off on

Speaker 5 all the filming for like a year. Yeah.
And then

Speaker 5 Demi came on the last day of filming the pilot in 2022. So she filmed like one or two days.

Speaker 5 just to like scope her out and then we did recasting after Taylor got arrested and that's when Jen, Jesse, Layla came. And Layla was around for the original mom talk.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Layla was at the original mom talk before the swinging stuff. I think there was like an original mom talk for like a year before the swinging stuff, if I'm right.

Speaker 5 And so I had met up with like Miranda and Taylor, knew them for like a short period of time. And then the swinging stuff came out, hung out with Miranda like once or twice after.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 And she kind of gave me like her side of the swinging stuff. And then two years go by and that's when the show.

Speaker 5 We always say though, but back then mom talk was like transactional from what I've heard. Like business, get your video done, see ya.
Now it's like a real friendship.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you feel like there's a group of women in Utah who maybe were involved in the original mom talk who are very bitter? Yes.
Yeah. Oh, gosh.

Speaker 1 I'm sure, but I'm like, I want, I want, I want that story.

Speaker 5 I want that to be a show of its own.

Speaker 2 No, I want the story about all the women who are jealous. And like, it's like, I don't know, put it on like a less popular platform or something.

Speaker 1 That would be hilarious. It got too big, though.

Speaker 5 Like, do you remember there was like the videos that would blow up? There were like literally like 20 girls and they like all filled the front. That was way too big.

Speaker 5 Some of them would come from like out of town. So they weren't all from Utah.
So it was

Speaker 1 too much.

Speaker 5 Yeah. There were like five people that would like come in and from out of town and then they'd leave again.
But like they lived in Utah originally.

Speaker 1 So going into the show, Jesse, you're closest with Macy. Yeah.
Michaela, you're closest with. like Macy and Jesse.
Macy and Jesse.

Speaker 5 Well, at the beginning. Oh, going into the show, definitely Macy.
Yeah. Cause I was like best friends with Macy for two years before mom talking filming.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I actually think I got closest with Jen and Layla before the show started filming though, because we all went on like trips together and like we would hang out before filming started.

Speaker 5 And me, Jen, and Layla were like the newbies to the group. So we kind of like stuck together because of that.
But then as filming went on, I obviously got really close with Demi.

Speaker 5 And now I'm closest with Mikhail and Macy. So, and Taylor.
It changes all the time. It does.
You never know.

Speaker 2 Do you ever run into

Speaker 2 the housewives?

Speaker 5 Yes. Britney comes to my salon.
Okay. Uh-huh.
And then I have met Whitney.

Speaker 2 Is she singing when she walks in? Yes.

Speaker 1 All the time. I love her.

Speaker 5 She's so funny. And she always grabs me to do like fun TikToks and stuff.

Speaker 5 Whitney, I've met a bunch of times. There was one time when Jensha was in my break room eating pizza, and I was looking at my security cameras and I was like, what the hell?

Speaker 5 So I like ran over to meet her.

Speaker 5 But yeah, like through that, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's random. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Michaela, again, you were amazing this season and a little messier, which because you're so like, like the first season, you were just like demure,

Speaker 2 quiet. Oh, yeah.
Michaela, unless Whitney

Speaker 1 did in my life.

Speaker 2 Unless Whitney walked in the room.

Speaker 2 One thing I just love to just push back on you just a little bit.

Speaker 1 Just a little bit.

Speaker 1 Watch it. Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm like, watch a man.

Speaker 1 You know, listen,

Speaker 2 I'm usually not in the business of agreeing with Whitney. Okay.
Uh-oh. But like,

Speaker 5 keep that going.

Speaker 1 Today.

Speaker 1 Don't stop now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I honestly respect how much you hate her.

Speaker 2 But like the... The trolling TikToks.
Like, you really, like, this season, you really did not back down being like, I can do whatever the fuck I want.

Speaker 2 Um, which obviously you can, but like, you can appreciate why, like, that maybe that, like, maybe looks like you're, yeah, you're, you're going past the point of like standing up for yourself when it comes to like, I wouldn't

Speaker 1 say that, but, but,

Speaker 5 emphasis on the but,

Speaker 5 it's just, there wasn't like the dynamic of like, Whitney is so innocent and everyone's ganging up on her. It was like she was feeding into this role of like, oh, make me your villain.
I'm this.

Speaker 5 Like it was all editing. I didn't know I was like this.
And so it was just, it almost made it harder to be quiet because it was like, oh, I don't remember it going that way.

Speaker 5 But yet she was still feeding into this and doing like the same patterns. And I think

Speaker 5 I didn't really have that drive to say as much. until she brought like Macy into it.
She was posting Macy's text messages where Macy was like backing her hard, blindly almost.

Speaker 5 And I feel like that's when I got almost more defensive because I was like, she was always a shitty friend to Macy, and I always told Macy that.

Speaker 5 But it wasn't until after the show, and she was like throwing Macy under the bus and defending that she wasn't going to her launch by exposing their messages. And that's when I was like, all right.

Speaker 2 See, that's helpful context because, like, in the show,

Speaker 2 it just looks like you're just out there waking up

Speaker 2 being like, I'm going to troll Whitney today.

Speaker 1 Oh, are you saying in season two?

Speaker 5 Like, how you guys stopping being. Oh, yeah.
It didn't show like the falling out at all with Whitney.

Speaker 5 And Whitney has like that very victim mindset all the time like i said every time she goes into something tell me your issues we tell her issues she runs away crying and saying she's the victim we're attacking her and it's that and it was continued through season two i had probably seven conversations that was that ended the exact same way of her like i really want to work on this but you're not telling me what i'm doing wrong i was like what about the last six conversations that i like do i need to spell it out or like write a list and give it to you yeah it was just so many conversations that ended the same way and literally everyone agrees.

Speaker 5 And with Miranda coming into the group, it was like what she would do to everyone. The new person in the group, when she's on the outs, she'd get really close.

Speaker 5 And then when it didn't serve her, she doesn't talk to Miranda anymore because she left again. So

Speaker 2 interesting. Yeah, there was a scene with Macy where Macy wanted some accountability from Whitney and asked her to like reflect, like, do you now regret not coming? And Whitney did this whole thing.

Speaker 2 And so like, well, how could I be sorry if that's how I felt in that moment? And it's like, wait, that doesn't.

Speaker 2 that's literally the the definition of like reflecting back on your actions and like knowing that you felt one way in one moment and like now that like that moment has passed like thinking like she can't admit she was wrong in her feelings.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 And it just, I could go all day just because I think it just triggers me so much.

Speaker 1 I don't want to trigger.

Speaker 5 No, it's fine. It's just like filming with it's because we're filming too and I know it's filming.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's the same thing. Like everyone's like, why are you so passionate? Because I'm like, she hasn't changed.

Speaker 5 Like, even just a week ago, couldn't say she regretted going to Macy's baby shower. She told Macy she had to look up the definition of regret to say if she

Speaker 5 regretted it.

Speaker 1 I'm like, you know what regret means.

Speaker 5 And I'm like, you're an actress. Come in and act like you're sorry for season two.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, and Whitney's literally the only one who's never been on the show. There have been several conversations with her team and us about coming on.
As a character, I'm a fan.

Speaker 1 I'm just obsessed with well it's entertaining for sure

Speaker 2 I can't watch it without

Speaker 2 enjoying my life it truly does because she's so blissfully unaware of how it comes across it's really funny it's funny and it's frustrating in this season she want you know she she didn't want to she wanted to do an interview by herself uh our response was you're not really in it this season oh good to know um i yeah you know like she definitely is much less of the villain this season from my perspective but is there a different villain in your perspective

Speaker 2 no it's just

Speaker 1 more men. Uh-oh.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, it's really going to be, I think, fan perspective. Obviously, and we'll get into it, but like, the season ends with a lot of accusations heading your way.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I'd love to, you know, and then you, you, and, you and Demi, obviously,

Speaker 1 very critical of Jen. Well, y'all came into season one being very close.
Yeah. And then obviously we have now seen what's going on on social media.
Y'all are not close anymore.

Speaker 5 What was the initial fallout of you and demi's relationship did season two touch on like the contracts stuff yeah okay so that was the first thing yeah which which round um that was the first thing it happened during the summer um actually before season one even aired yeah we started negotiating some different contracts as a group and she basically threw me under the bus because i didn't care to fight for more money and she wanted an absurd amount of money.

Speaker 2 What did that conversation sound like? Like, how did it happen?

Speaker 1 So it had all of us on it. So we were all on a call.

Speaker 5 And keep in mind, this is a call with our lawyer and and managers who represent us. So we should be able to say how we feel.

Speaker 2 And some of you share managers and lawyers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, totally. And like, so they all have our couple husbands in mind.

Speaker 5 And we should be able to say, like, I want this, I want this, and it can differ. Some husbands were on.
I was doing a podcast virtually. So I joined the call late.

Speaker 5 When I joined the call, the first thing I heard is Brett saying, if we don't get this amount, everyone's walking. And I was like, you can't speak for me.

Speaker 5 So I said that because that's initially what I heard. So I was like, wait, wait, wait.
I just want you to know, like, I'm not willing to walk. And he was pissed.
And they just were so mad at me.

Speaker 5 That is the catalyst for everyone. Well, because then there was another call after, because what happened before to give it context, we were all like, no one's going to walk.

Speaker 5 Obviously, this is what we were saying before she went on, like, no one's going to walk, but there's power in numbers. Yeah.
And so.

Speaker 1 we're all going to walk.

Speaker 5 And so then Jesse, yeah, Jesse comes on, hears that. She's like, um, I'm not going to walk.
And if I had that context, of course, I would have not said that.

Speaker 5 But again, it didn't warrant their reaction. No, so then she's calling people behind the scenes being like, well, Jesse has no morals and no values.

Speaker 5 Well, and Brett, going after you was like, oh, he's going to be awesome.

Speaker 1 Oh, and then Brett responds to me was like,

Speaker 5 Jesse, you're willing to walk for pennies and none of us are. And that was gross.
And

Speaker 5 just kind of like came at me.

Speaker 5 And then she's calling everyone behind my back being like, well, if Jesse doesn't, like, maybe Jesse doesn't need to be on the show, then let's get her off and we can all get more money.

Speaker 5 She said that. Yeah.
She was saying that she had no morals, no values. I'm not going to be a pawn in her hair scheme.

Speaker 1 Well, also, like, after we just clearly talked about there seems to be a line of women in Utah

Speaker 1 willing to do this. All of your places.

Speaker 2 And I think, obviously, the show.

Speaker 5 I don't think, to be honest, Demi was a fan favorite, and it went to her head. And she's like, well, I can make more money.

Speaker 1 She did only say she said it a million.

Speaker 2 So I think it's really important, obviously, like as reality TV becomes more and more prominent, it gets more and more credibility.

Speaker 2 I think you guys deserve, you are stars. You guys deserve to get yours.
But like, when I would have done The Bachelor for Free.

Speaker 5 Hey, keep in mind, this is before season one aired. So I didn't know what the reaction was going to be.
And they wouldn't show us

Speaker 5 the background numbers of airing or like anything.

Speaker 1 We don't even know if it's a hit yet.

Speaker 5 Exactly. Like we knew that it was good because they were wanting to go in so quickly into filming season two.
And like we knew after the numbers came out too, that it was doing really well.

Speaker 5 But also there was just the line of like, okay, this is absurd and this is way too much money. Like, yes, we deserve more, but this is like, it's not.

Speaker 2 It's not realistic. Like they were trying to get rich in that moment.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Without having to work.

Speaker 5 Like she doesn't want to work like a dog.

Speaker 1 That's her words. And so she doesn't want to hustle.
No. But she wants to be rich.

Speaker 5 I think that that was where it started. And then I think for me, what was hard was after that happened, I didn't know everything she said about me.

Speaker 5 But then the text messages she sent me during that were like, you need to earn my friendship back. Like, I'm very disappointed in you.

Speaker 5 Like, kind of put herself on a pedestal above me where I had to like beg for her love is how I felt. And then the hair drama happened.
So it was just like one thing after another.

Speaker 5 And I just kept forgiving her.

Speaker 1 Like I was like, I don't want to have another friendship fallout.

Speaker 5 Like I just, it's fine.

Speaker 5 And the friendship fallout inevitably happened because I finally hit a point where after the finale where she like says she's going to walk, it was like that argument in my house.

Speaker 5 She was mad that I didn't defend her towards Taylor and that I didn't gang up on Taylor. And it was again, I'm disappointed in you.

Speaker 5 She sent me this big like breakup text and I was just like, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this pattern where I have to beg for your love if I'm not doing exactly what you want.

Speaker 5 So well, even in like the conversation we had where we were like had our little mom talk meeting

Speaker 5 and there was the blow up between Taylor and Demi, they were talking about, cause Demi was like wanting to have a huge finale for season one, and so she was wanting to make up.

Speaker 5 She's like, We can make up this whole thing that, like, I have an affair with Dakota and like this.

Speaker 1 And so, we were like, Everyone was like, Oh, that's a weird thing to say.

Speaker 5 No one wants to be able to do it. Until Taylor, no, I went, Taylor brought it up in the conversation, and Demi's like, Did everyone think that was weird?

Speaker 1 And everyone's like, You know, yeah, kind of, that was a little bit weird.

Speaker 5 And she was like, Really, Jesse? Unbelievable!

Speaker 1 And so it was like this, the friendship told me.

Speaker 2 I was like, I'm like, you know, I'm a fan of all you women, yeah, right? And we've gotten to know Demi, and I've really quite enjoyed her company. I've been really charming.

Speaker 5 We like Demi, too. Like when our friend, because I got really close to Demi and Jesse and Macy, which I was already, but like we were getting closer to Demi.
And then all of this started unraveling.

Speaker 5 And we still gave not her the benefit of the doubt, but it was just kind of sad to see like, oh, she would do that. And then it kind of just kept progressing.

Speaker 5 And so we weren't like immediately like, okay, closed off. It just happened gradually.
So it was sad for sure to see that she was willing to do all the things that she did.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So she was willing to

Speaker 1 have the world think that she had an affair with Dakota for television. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Or at least she threw it out there.

Speaker 1 It was her. She had a whole plan.
Yeah, apparently she had a whole plan.

Speaker 2 It wasn't something she just said.

Speaker 1 It could be funny.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 We could meet in a car and then like they could catch us. We were like, it was like a plan.

Speaker 5 But also, I think it says a lot that there are seven women who feel the exact same way about her. It's not just me that had issues.

Speaker 2 And I want to ask you, and I'm not sure how much you women can share. We've obviously interviewed Miranda.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 We interviewed her the morning morning that a lot of you were online in the comments between

Speaker 2 Marciano and Demi. Demi was here with Brett and she made some claims, some very serious claims.

Speaker 5 What I'll say is victims should always be believed.

Speaker 1 I'll say that.

Speaker 5 And yeah, I think it's really hard for, again, you have like, I was the victim of sexual abuse and Demi kind of takes advantage of that in the situations of like guilting us of like, well, you were going through this.

Speaker 5 Like you out of anyone should believe me. Yeah.
But also I was there right after the villa and I heard from her own mouth. I'm not a victim.
I was playing into this. Like I was being flirted.

Speaker 5 I was having a fun time. And that was the story from the beginning.
And I was also there to kind of like watch everything too. And you were there too.
This is such a serious subject.

Speaker 5 None of us would ever do this if we didn't know for sure. Or we didn't have gut feelings and witnessed things, you know? So no, yeah.

Speaker 5 I'm like, especially in my situation where again, I went to my mom and that wasn't believed. So it's not coming lightly that I'm like choosing to be hesitant.

Speaker 2 When we talked with Demi and Brett, it's they certainly gave the impression that they were done with this show.

Speaker 1 Specifically Brett. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Demi seemed pretty in line. With Brett, I'm sure you can't tell us.
I don't even know if you know for sure what's going on contractually, but like, I just want to know your opinions.

Speaker 2 Do you think Demi? and Brett are done with the show and mom talk and secret lives.

Speaker 5 No, because the minute she gets a taste of like fame and the fun stuff we're doing now, it's like, oh, wait, I want to come back. So I think it's just like, wait, come and go.

Speaker 5 Does or doesn't come back, you think whether she leaves, whether she comes back, she'll always be back.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 5 I mean, we met Lana Del Rey the other day, and that was an opportunity we got. And as soon as she saw that, she's like tagging Lana on her story, like, let's do a redo.

Speaker 5 It's like, then why are you leaving these experiences?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 I think her go-to every time was,

Speaker 5 who's walking? Who's walking with me? I'm done with this show. So I'm like, right now,

Speaker 2 I don't don't know i don't think it would surprise me with her coming back because she is so back and forth in that sense too i just think like whitney they can't stay away if she does decide to come back and is allowed back how will you women approach her given her alleged behavior and how you women perceive her because it's one thing to be whitney yeah and not understand how to apologize or think you are as accountable as the rest of the group when maybe you might not be yeah and then there's everything that's going on with Demi.

Speaker 2 How will you women approach that?

Speaker 5 I think it is different for me because again, I go back and forth with Whitney with where I'm like, do you truly just not know? Are you like this calculated? Like, are you as manipulative as you seem?

Speaker 5 Or do you truly just not know better? With the Demi stuff, it is very, very calculated and very,

Speaker 5 again, the serious allegations and everything that she's doing with like the contracts. I'm like, this is, I think everyone has seen the character flaws with it.

Speaker 5 And no one want, I don't want a friend that's willing to do that to me. So, and I think everyone kind of agrees and has that same opinion with her.
I think guards are definitely going to be up 100%.

Speaker 5 And I don't think, I mean, I don't see myself personally getting close again. No, and I had ended my friendship with her before all of these allegations.
So I already knew that was done for me.

Speaker 5 And now this has added a bigger, heavier layer. But for me, if she needs to be my coworker, that's fine.
I'm not going to go out of my way to mend a friendship, do anything like that.

Speaker 5 Like I'm for sure done.

Speaker 5 but if i have to be around her i will yeah which yeah that's can we talk about how hard that is yeah because i think people don't get that that i'm like there is like the real friendships and then there's like the show aspect and we are being forced against our will to hang out with these people

Speaker 1 and it's so hard yeah if someone like puts y'all in a photo and you're standing next to whitney and are you like excuse me no i'm from the get real event where we're like me and to me are crouched down

Speaker 5 and there's like a big gap and everyone's like that's so telling no it's like the interviews where it's like who's most likely to and we're all like

Speaker 5 like having a point and we're all in a group and it's like that's so it's hard for sure well switching gears a little bit jesse you have not been wearing your wedding ring yeah is there anything that you can share about your marriage i will say that reality tv is hard on any relationship whether it's a friendship or a marriage and we've been through a lot and now it's going to be public and we're working through things and we're trying our best, but things are a little tricky right now.

Speaker 5 And, And, you know, I'm excited to hopefully someday share more about that. But right now, it's a little bit, it's just real life and it's hard.
So yeah, I don't really know.

Speaker 2 I have to ask, and I'm assuming, because I think you guys are filming season three.

Speaker 2 And I know, obviously, we want to be conscious of spoilers, but, you know, season two ended with quite the accusation towards you.

Speaker 2 And Miranda made it seem like you, you and Jordan have some real tough conversations ahead. Do you want to clear the air about like

Speaker 2 you and Marciano and him saying you guys had an affair? Or can you like what can you, if anything, clear up right now?

Speaker 5 I can't say much. Unfortunately, I wish I could, but there is just so much more to the story.
And again, relationships are hard and they're nuanced.

Speaker 5 And there's so much more that I'm, I'm excited to share because I think people will be able to relate to my story. And I think it may help people.

Speaker 1 Do you think that Jordan is a good role model for the men that your daughter should look for?

Speaker 5 Oh my gosh, that is a loaded question.

Speaker 5 No, I think that there's been a lot that's happened and I think that he and I are both willing to work on things and change, but maybe he should be asked that question because that might wake him up.

Speaker 5 But no, I think there's a lot of things that have needed to change.

Speaker 2 I've heard some things about him and I was really disappointed to hear.

Speaker 2 I hope they're not true. Clearly, you can't tell me, but your answer to Nally, I think, is revealing.

Speaker 2 And I'd love the opportunity to talk with him about some of the things I have heard if they end up being true, because it's really quite sad and disappointing. But I am

Speaker 2 looking forward to getting to the bottom of that.

Speaker 5 I will say one thing about me is I feel like, unlike Whitney, I'm really good at taking accountability. And I own my shit.

Speaker 5 And I am excited to someday tell the full story and, you know, fall on my sword and take accountability for certain things, but also open up a bigger conversation that I think needs to happen.

Speaker 2 I wanted to ask you guys about Jen. A lot this season, when you and Demi were still close, a lot of your focus and attention and criticism was towards Jen.

Speaker 2 Obviously, we know that Jen left the show and took a mental health absence and is pregnant. So I want to be respectful of that.

Speaker 2 It's my opinion watching the show that while Jen may embellish, maybe it's like, and there's like the people who just like want to fit in, want to people please, get caught up in the moment.

Speaker 2 And I'm not saying it's okay.

Speaker 2 Clearly, there needs to be correcting, but that's my, my, that's my.

Speaker 1 Jen's harmless.

Speaker 2 That's my opinion.

Speaker 2 That's my opinion of Jen is that that she's more or less harmless yeah do you looking back regret any of your behavior towards jen because it was pretty harsh yeah and i'm not blaming you for anything because there's a lot going on in jen's life uh specifically her relationship with zach and the pregnancy and just you know probably a lot we don't know yeah but how do you feel about your behavior with Jen and do you think it was ever influenced by Demi?

Speaker 5 Great question. So again, I can take accountability and I was harsh for sure.
I think I was hearing a lot of things that I was just shocked by.

Speaker 5 And then Jen was so MIA from the group that it was a lot of jumping to conclusions because she wasn't giving us answers. So I think that's where a lot of it began.

Speaker 5 And then also Demi was on a mission at the time to make Jen seem like a liar because Jen knew more about the situation in Italy. So Jen was starting to expose that and say things.

Speaker 5 And so I think Demi was 10 steps ahead and was like, oh, I need to discredit her now. And if I can discredit her through this avenue and this avenue, it will make her look like a liar all around.

Speaker 5 So I do think there was a little bit of that.

Speaker 1 But again, I take accountability that I went hard on Jen on my own accord.

Speaker 5 And I was very frustrated by all of the lies building up. And then Zach himself telling us, like, that's a lie.
Like, she didn't say that. I was like, what?

Speaker 5 So I think I was honestly getting caught up in the drama of it all. And looking back now, I'm like, okay, I was probably a little hard on her.

Speaker 2 Thoughts agree, disagree.

Speaker 5 I don't know what's going to be shown. I mean, I lived it and I'm like, I don't know what I should say.

Speaker 5 I'm trying to tread very lightly.

Speaker 2 Say your truth, and we'll make sure you're protected in the back end.

Speaker 1 What are your thoughts and feelings on Jen and Zen?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 5 the little white lies. I had friends in school like that.

Speaker 2 No, like the friend who had a dad who worked in China and had a mansion. I had a sleepover once with a guy who had all the baseball cards.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 1 it's amazing. And I was like, well, can I see him?

Speaker 2 He's like, no, they're like, they're, oh, they're not this house. They're our house in Hawaii.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't get it. Yeah, that happens.

Speaker 5 That was Jen, probably.

Speaker 5 Yeah, like I said, like, it is so hard. It's so much filming.
Like, we do so much filming. It's so many hours.
And so, again, it's hard not to be frustrated when people aren't showing up.

Speaker 5 And then on the back end, they're like trying to ruin your life or make up lies to ruin your life. I feel like it's so frustrating.

Speaker 5 And then just like those little weird lies about like Ben Affleck and like things like that. I'm like.

Speaker 1 Oh, I think it's huge. We can never get a straight answer.

Speaker 5 That's, I think, what's frustrating is we can never get a clear answer. It's very fresh.

Speaker 5 I just did more press and it's like not doubling down, tripling down, quadrupling down and i'm like i just i'm trying to keep my mouth shut because i don't know what to do

Speaker 2 like it's like i want to give her a pass but even when she owns up to it she's like talking in circles she just she kind of leans into how unserious she is yes yes but so it's like if you know you're you know it's like how how innocent are you i have not i haven't seen

Speaker 2 the opposite where he's like very serious yeah very serious so it's really funny yeah uh speaking of zach i you know he was if if if whitney was villain number one he was villain number two in season one.

Speaker 2 And at least from what I saw season two,

Speaker 2 I'm not saying he completely redeemed himself, and I'm not saying he's like a completely changed man, but I saw a lot of growth. Okay.
And I saw a lot of, at least, intention to like

Speaker 2 try

Speaker 2 to be a better person.

Speaker 2 At least from his.

Speaker 1 Like, what was I supposed to say again?

Speaker 2 And I'm just wondering

Speaker 2 if what I saw is what you all witnessed.

Speaker 2 So the weird, I i don't know okay so the weird thing is we didn't see zach a ton i think i saw him at my talk with him and then the halloween party so a lot of their stuff was like probably alone and so i can't speak to that but i will say i know he was trying and he was working on things and i'm proud for that i would say his one-on-one stuff with jen um if if if season one looked like Zach was a deadbeat husband who never really gave a shit about his wife's emotional well-being, health, anything, all of the above, he really seemed like a present husband who more than anything wanted to be there for his wife.

Speaker 2 That was, and I was, I was, I was really impressed. And I was, I appreciated that.
Again, I'm sure he has a long way to go.

Speaker 5 Everyone deserves a second chance to like undo their wrongs.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Michaela, who is your favorite husband? You cannot say Jacob.
Oh, oh, damn, she knows.

Speaker 5 How many, who's even, I'm like, who's like all

Speaker 1 the figures, not a husband.

Speaker 1 That's kind of funny.

Speaker 5 I think I know who you're going to say. And it's kind of funny.

Speaker 1 Who is it? Oh, Connor.

Speaker 1 I love Connor.

Speaker 5 Connor's the best. Everyone loves Connor.
Like, he's so, he's so great and so logical.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 I think he's like Whitney's right side of her brain, truly. Like, he is so

Speaker 1 he keeps her grounded. He does.

Speaker 5 He's very, and he's just so, he's not very, he's emotional, but not in his, he doesn't like act out of emotions. He's just very caring and he's logical.
And just, yeah, he's great.

Speaker 2 Do you think he sees what you see in Whitney?

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 5 probably.

Speaker 5 I think everyone sees it. I just think he handles it with more grace and compassion

Speaker 1 because he's married to her.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't want to piss her off if I had to live with her. Michaela, how is your health these days? It's doing great.
You look beautiful. You look younger.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's it's been a lot better.

Speaker 5 I think the less I've done, the better it's gotten, which is really ironic because I really put my heart and soul into it for like years and years and years with no progress.

Speaker 5 So yeah, I'm like, hopefully.

Speaker 2 I'm just like the pregnancy in some ways. I mean, my mom had 11 kids and my mom also had some, a variety of different health struggles.

Speaker 2 And there seemed to be time, maybe it was just, you know, the belief in something. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But it really seemed like sometimes her pregnancies was almost a

Speaker 2 something that healed her.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it totally is a thing.

Speaker 5 Like I've looked up a lot of that with like autoimmune stuff.

Speaker 5 I don't know what was going on with my health issues. I still never got answers of what was going on.

Speaker 5 But i've heard like people with eczema and all this stuff they get pregnant and it goes away so i was like very strong i'm like hopefully this baby heals me which people had an issue with that for some reason yeah did you see

Speaker 1 yeah they're like that's so much so much heat to put on a baby i was like okay

Speaker 2 you would think that when it comes to pregnancy and women there would be a lot of yeah grace grace and unity and but it really seems that people are are

Speaker 2 whatever they you know yes do not give an opinion that it doesn't align with someone else's

Speaker 5 people hear about it yes but no i do think pregnancy has helped a lot and then again like i said working through trauma i've been learning a lot through like how trauma stored in your body and like unraveling all that and i think yeah i've seen the most healing in the last nine months to a year just going to therapy yeah and honestly not not on medication yeah healing the inside from the inside out yeah that's true i've been telling jesse too i'm like you need to She's like, work on yourself.

Speaker 1 That's why I say that stuff.

Speaker 5 Exactly. I'm like, okay, I'll take a lesson

Speaker 1 We do have a fun little game we want to play. It's

Speaker 1 some

Speaker 1 superlatives. Some Mormon wives superlatives.
Mormon wives superlatives.

Speaker 1 Obviously, you haven't seen the show, but also

Speaker 2 about your

Speaker 1 life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, your genuine opinion of these people. Okay.
And it's now time for Mormon Wives Superlatives.

Speaker 1 Bless you.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Okay.

Speaker 1 Don't text your eyes. Happy birthday.
Yeah, there you go. Sponsored by.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Most toxic couple

Speaker 1 in the group.

Speaker 1 One at a time. Taylor and Dakota, Jesse.

Speaker 1 Take it away, Jesse.

Speaker 1 Taylor, Dakota? Yeah. Oh, I do have a question for you about them.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 Do you hope they get back together?

Speaker 5 No, not as of right now.

Speaker 1 Never.

Speaker 5 I just think, I think ever.

Speaker 5 Never, ever.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I love them both as people.

Speaker 5 Like, I think they're both amazing people. I think together they just can't, they're in a toxic cycle that will just never end.

Speaker 5 And we see too much. Yeah, we know.
I've seen too much, heard too much.

Speaker 1 Okay, who is most likely? Wait, you didn't answer.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Yeah, Taylor Necro.

Speaker 5 Okay, I don't even think that.

Speaker 1 Okay. Who is most likely to beauty filter their photos?

Speaker 5 Oh, Demi. Yeah, Demi always has a filter.

Speaker 2 Who's most likely to sneak in a fart and blame someone else? Whitney.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah.
She would have to be able to get away from it. Or Johnny, she would take accountability for her.

Speaker 1 So true. Most likely to have lied this season.

Speaker 5 Jen.

Speaker 2 Most likely to win an Oscar.

Speaker 5 Not winning. No, say what you said about her.

Speaker 1 Remember when

Speaker 5 you, Taylor said, and for the second time in a row, her awarding.

Speaker 5 Her leading role is the victim. Second season in a row.

Speaker 1 But let's not hype her

Speaker 1 that much. Best dressed.
Ooh. Probably Jesse or Layla.
Or Miranda.

Speaker 5 I was going to say Miranda or Layla.

Speaker 2 Worst dress.

Speaker 1 Whitney.

Speaker 5 Probably me or Taylor.

Speaker 1 Not you.

Speaker 5 Well, are we talking season two?

Speaker 1 I'm talking in real life. Yeah, like when you see him at the grocery store, you see him at a coffee shop.

Speaker 5 When you guys get together, I'm pretty grungy. What?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 What do you mean? Just a bra with a blazer over it.

Speaker 1 I was like,

Speaker 1 I love that person.

Speaker 5 It's the nicest thing you buy away.

Speaker 2 Person who thinks they're a good cook, but isn't.

Speaker 1 Probably Jesse.

Speaker 5 Just kidding. No, I think you know.
You were at my house and I hadn't even turned your oven on. She's like under her house for like six months.
I was like, how do you turn your oven on?

Speaker 5 She's like, I've never used it.

Speaker 1 I was like, okay. It's giving Carrie Brad shot.
No, actually.

Speaker 1 What What do you do?

Speaker 1 No, I'm going to say Taylor. TB and J.

Speaker 5 I'm me, probably. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Who is most likely to get canceled? Ooh.

Speaker 1 Ooh.

Speaker 5 Taylor. Yeah, Taylor, just because she's so like, I don't give a fuck.
Like, she's so controversial at times. But also, people love her.

Speaker 1 Her audience loves her.

Speaker 2 So because she doesn't give a fuck.

Speaker 5 Yeah, exactly. They can see through it.
So, or like, they see the like genuine.

Speaker 2 Do you think Taylor is the, is the one who really doesn't give the fuck in the most authentic way of the group?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 I think everyone doesn't, but I think

Speaker 5 I just keep going back to the CMA post when she was like, It was just Penny.

Speaker 1 I don't care. I don't care.

Speaker 5 We're like, but honestly, she owned it. So it's like, how do you stay mad at her?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 But I was talking to her, her the other day about hate and how she deals with it. And she's like, I go like this.
I'm like, oh, okay. Like, she is herself.

Speaker 2 Most likely to steal a baby name.

Speaker 1 Ooh.

Speaker 1 Especially with this going on. Can you imagine you guys like stealing the same baby name?

Speaker 5 I don't know why I want to say Jen. I want to say, Oh.
No, I can't.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I see that. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 Have y'all shared names you're thinking of? I have that.

Speaker 5 Zero names. And same with me.
Send me all your ideas.

Speaker 1 I have zero names.

Speaker 5 No, we were joking with Jen. We're like, you should name your baby Ben.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I was like, Ben.
Literally. I mean, what are your other two names for my two? I have three.
You have three.

Speaker 5 Beckham, Haven, and Tommy. So I have my little girl Tommy in Haven.
And then Beckham's my one boy.

Speaker 2 Most likely to pick their nose in public.

Speaker 1 Whitney. Yeah.
I think that's it on superlatives. We kind of, yeah.

Speaker 1 That was quite that real quick.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. That is funny.

Speaker 2 Well, ladies, thank you for coming by. Good luck.
Hopefully season three.

Speaker 2 Hopefully I'll see you soon. Everyone watching, if you haven't already, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is now streaming on Hulu.

Speaker 1 All 10 episodes. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it's an absolute doozy. Jesse.
Good luck.

Speaker 1 I know there's a lot of people.

Speaker 5 I'm going into hiding, but literally.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I want to be respectful to you, but I feel like I'm not doing my job pulling it out of you, but I feel like

Speaker 2 there's more to come.

Speaker 1 We'll circle back. Michaela, it's so great to see you.

Speaker 2 So great to see you doing so well. Congratulations with the baby, everything that's going on in your life.
Really so happy for you and Jace.

Speaker 2 And yeah, thanks for stopping by.

Speaker 1 And I can't wait to see you guys more in the future.

Speaker 1 Perfect.

Speaker 2 Thanks for listening. Thank you to our guys, Chloe, Vech, Michaela, and Jesse from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.
Don't forget, it is streaming now, all episodes on Hulu. Check it out.

Speaker 2 We'll see you back tomorrow for a,

Speaker 2 boy, a just a dark, crazy episode of Going Deeper from Michelle, formerly Michelle Lolly of the Valley, talking about her ex-husband, Jesse Lolly. That is tomorrow, and

Speaker 2 it's a very lifetime movie. See you then.