E999 Ask Nick - Cheating Parents

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How's it going?

Hi, it's going well.

My name is Blair.

I'm 31 and I have feelings for my buddy of 15 years.

Oh boy.

15 years.

Yes.

How long have you had feelings?

Definitely since the beginning.

I was a sophomore in high school when we first met, and he was a senior.

And I mean, I definitely just had a really big crush on him from the beginning um and that is how i guess i lost my virginity to him um and it was always very casual from the start but and i guess when i say feelings like it was like a crush like an infatuation um have you dated other people in between yes yes oh okay i've had two like serious long-term three-year relationships in between um and then a variety of shorter ones.

And then are you like always going back to him in between type of thing?

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's kind of, he's in the same boat.

It's like whenever he goes through a breakup, he'll reach out to me and then we'll go on a date or meet up and have like a nice 12 hours together, maybe 24 hours.

And then we go our separate ways.

And then,

yeah.

And then we, I guess time passes and we start dating other people.

Have you ever told them that you have feelings?

Yeah.

The last time I guess I did, and maybe I did in high school.

I don't remember.

It was so long ago, obviously.

Yeah, high school doesn't count.

Have you told them recently?

Have you like in the past, I don't know, three years, two years, five years?

Yeah, yeah, let's say not the past two or three, but in the past five, yes.

So I was moving across the country about four years ago.

And when we were both, you know, in the same city, I was getting ready to move.

You know, he was like, look, we should see each other before you leave.

And we were both single, obviously.

So we kind of went on a string of dates.

Like it was our most number of consistent times that we would see each other probably since high school.

And it started in August before I left.

And then I came back in October and we saw each other then.

And then November and we saw each other then.

And I think in November, I said, I have a crush on you.

And he said, you just moved.

You know, you just moved across the country.

Like, you should experience what it's like, you know, in your new city.

It doesn't like, so that's the extent of me saying how I feel.

I guess I kind of just assumed he knows, but I guess maybe, why would he?

I don't know.

I mean, it's been 15 years.

So what do you think?

But I don't know.

He's your age.

You went to school with him?

Oh, no, he was, he's

older.

He's 33.

Okay.

And what's his relationship status?

Like, what do you know about his dating life?

So back in high school, he always said i care less about high school i care about like more about the past like i can give you the full history no i just his adult life you know um yeah um i guess i only bring up high school just because back then he was like i don't want a relationship and then once he got to college he started to have relationships um and since then i think he's had one longer term one that was maybe a year or two or actually no In college, he had one for probably a year or two, yeah.

And then they broke up, but they're still friends.

I think it was like an amicable breakup.

And then there was another woman that I think he dated from maybe like 2019 to 2020-ish.

But I think it was pretty serious.

And he definitely got his heart broken by her.

And then since then, he's had what sounds like short.

What did the girl who broke his heart look like?

Looks-wise.

I think I would describe her as like maybe like Middle Eastern or like Indian looking.

Okay.

I guess my question is, you know, men are visual.

Do you feel like, well, what's the vibe you feel like you're getting from him in terms of how he sees you?

Well, he says stuff.

Like,

so we saw each other recently this summer, and it was our first time seeing each other in four years.

Since I had moved, right after I moved, actually, I kind of found myself in a serious relationship.

I dated.

my ex for over three years and then we broke up this summer right at like the end of May.

Basically, I saw, and it's so funny, I'm like worried he'll know who I'm talking about, but whatever.

I saw on his Instagram story that he was going to be in London.

And I was also in Europe and had a layover in London.

So I made a comment saying,

oh man, like it would have been great to see you.

I'm going to have a layover in London, but not enough time to leave the airport.

And he, so then we started talking a little bit back and forth.

And it came out that, you know, I just went through a breakup and that I was traveling traveling afterwards.

And he also just went through a breakup.

Also, I was, he was like inspired to travel.

And then he was like, well, if you want to extend your trip, like you should.

But at that point, I couldn't.

I had too many commitments to come back to.

The flights were expensive, you know, but I looked into it.

I really looked into it.

I got home and I actually went back to.

the home city that's close to like where I grew up and where he's living.

I was visiting friends and family and we met up.

Yeah, so it was our first time seeing each other in four years.

And he basically says stuff like, you know, when I see you, it feels like time folds in on itself.

I feel like I'm 17 again.

I feel like I'm 21 again.

I like, it's like every time it just feels natural and normal.

And then, and this was after we hook up.

So I know he's not saying it just to like, you know, hook up with me, but he says stuff like, you're like my favorite person to do this with.

Like, I don't do this with anyone else.

What is, what is doing this?

Like, have sex hook up with is it just the sex part that is referring to i mean

that's what he like kind of explicitly said that but is that like the most what's the nicest thing he's ever said to you i mean he says i'm like he says i'm like beautiful and like i know he's attracted to me let's i guess like he's made that clear um

he also so i'm also jewish and he made a comment this past time where he was like i don't know what what it is, but I just feel like I'm so into like Jewish girls.

And like, and a part of me is like, because you know, the first time we hooked up was 15 years ago.

I was like, Am I the like the prototype?

Like, am I the reason why?

Or was there someone before me?

I don't know.

Um, you're yeah, the first kind of influences a lot sometimes.

Yeah, I know I wasn't his first, um, but he was, he was mine.

Gotcha.

So, why haven't you gone for it?

I think I'm just intimidated a little bit.

And I think I'm, I could be a little avoidant.

I realized like my most serious relationship before my last one, so my college relationship, I thought we were on the same page the whole time.

And we, you know, had a really great, beautiful relationship, great friendship.

But I realized we never actually talked about the future.

And I just kind of assumed.

And then in my last relationship, we did talk about the future and that we like saw each other like marrying each other.

And then obviously that didn't happen.

We broke up.

But I guess I realized that like i sometimes have a hard time like being vulnerable and putting myself out there like that do you guys live in the same area no so he's back across the country in um the city i lived before the one that's close to my hometown um and i'm still across the country um but before we

met up uh over the summer it was about like maybe three weeks ago at this point, four weeks ago.

I was already kind of thinking about going back to my home city, not only because of the breakup, but also just because I've been in this new city now for four years.

And while I do really love it,

I was kind of thinking it might be time to go back.

So it was something I was already considering.

So it's possible that if

you shot your shot and you guys

wanted to consider giving this a shot, there's a lane for you to close that distance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I definitely would be open to moving.

So yeah.

And he's definitely single right now.

Yes.

Yes.

I mean, you got to, you got to shoot your shot.

But what do I say?

It's not that, it's not that complicated.

You know, like, there's no, there's no magical thing you're going to say.

You know what I'm saying?

It doesn't matter what you say.

You have to be direct.

You know what I mean?

You have to go for it.

You have to put yourself out there.

You can't sugarcoat it.

You can't say things like, I have a crush on you.

That's

it's not about nostalgia.

You know, honestly, I don't think it's that special what he said to you in terms of like, when I see you, I feel like I'm 17 again.

You do elicit like a fun, nostalgic feeling for him, and that's great.

But I don't think that's what you're looking for.

But I do strongly feel like he doesn't see you in the way he you want him to see you right now.

It doesn't mean he can't.

You know, for you know, I've talked about this a lot, but you know, when I first, you know, met my wife, I didn't necessarily see her as someone who could be my girlfriend, you know, because of things that I thought were like, okay, well, she's younger than me, and we live, you know, it's just like, that's not how I saw her.

She had to fight, you know, she had to be confident in her, her feelings towards me.

It was her confidence and belief of what she thought we could be that ultimately made me see her in a different way and gave me the confidence to do the, to pursue her, to say yes to a possibility.

I, you know,

and she's, we, you know, we've talked about this and joked about the show.

I, she, I rejected her a few times, but It was her conviction.

So my point is, is like, you know, you might be avoidant and not good at confrontation or good at being a direct, but that is what it's going to take to get this guy to like change the way he sees you because he just doesn't see you as an option to like have a relationship with.

He sees you as the girl he just has been sleeping with since high school off and on.

And yeah, why he sees you differently?

Why he doesn't see you that way?

There's a million different way reasons, who knows, but he just doesn't.

And

you have to act like he is missing out, like he is silly.

You got to assume he's going to say no at first.

And then you have to shut down the possibility of

him ever having access to you in the way that he's used to having access to you.

You almost have to give him the pitch.

No one really wants to do that.

Women want to do that even less than men to, you know, I don't want to chase and I don't want to beg for someone to date me.

But like, this is a different scenario where you guys both kind of have mental barriers of how you see each other.

Probably more him than you, you know?

I don't know how you feel after having sex with him, but like, you know,

you probably have slightly more of an emotional attachment than he does, you know?

And he obviously likes you on some level, right?

And I think your pitch is just like, I think we should date.

I really care about you.

We've known each other for...

our entire adult lives.

We always find our way back to each other.

We've dated multiple people in between and it hasn't worked out.

And I want to pursue something with you because I like this about us.

I like this about you.

And I think you feel the same about me.

And I think you're just too chicken new.

I think you have to kind of be aggressive.

I think

at times men really respond to very confident, aggressive women who know what they want.

Yeah, when we met each other last time, like over the summer, he said to me, we were talking about our summer in Europe stories and like just being very open about like the other people we like hooked up with.

And he said to me that like there's a girl who

they like were on a walk or something and she's like so are you gonna kiss me and he's like i guess i just like women like that so he kind of was like explicitly telling me that he likes when a woman is up front and says what she wants

sure yeah and it's more than just being up front i think you know there's a boldness and i think there's a level of The fact that you guys have been hooking up for as long as you do, and just obviously I just met you, but you have a more of a demure energy about you, which is lovely and great, you know, but I think at times with that demure energy, I think there's a level of, whether it's outright a conscious choice or just a subconscious choice, I think there's this like thought of like take, you know, like taking it for granted.

Yeah.

What's the thing that stopped him from pursuing you?

One, as a typical guy, he's, he's always known he could have you, you know, so I don't, and I don't think playing hard to get right now is the way, you know, I think you play hard to get after you shoot your shot, aggressively shoot your shot.

you make your case and you got to paint the picture that like you're going to miss out on maybe the best thing and like i don't think it's a coincidence that we always find our way back to each other and we've been spending our entire adult lives looking for what we have right in front of us and what a cool story but like i want to date you and i want us to date and i want us to like give this a shot because honestly I'm not going to keep sleeping with you forever.

I, you know, like this is, it's run its course.

This last time too, he said something like, you know, I saw that you had been dating your ex, like, and I would see you post about him.

And in my back of my mind, I would think, wow, I wonder if this is who she's going to end up with.

Like, is this who she's going to marry?

Like, will this be it?

He's like, so, you know, I just feel like we'll always be in each other's lives, though.

Like, he was saying stuff like that.

And so I'm like, okay, so you're paying attention to the fact that I'm dating someone else.

I love that.

to be honest.

I don't like, I don't think that's his if he's imagining who you're going to marry without it really seeming to bother him and then stating that he's always gonna see you in his life yeah why does he think that you know why does he think he's in a position being a guy that you have slept with your entire adult life off and on why does he think that your future husband would be okay with that that's true yeah yeah i guess like in my mind i interpret it as him hoping that that wasn't the case that i would end up with that guy but again

i maybe i think that's a bit of a reach it's hard to say I think it's just as likely that he is, he wants to make sure that you're comfortable with your arrangement that you have.

I think a lot of guys who have fuck buddy situations like understand,

like I think the average adult man, even the dumb ones, like understand that like even in hookup culture, women respond to sex a little bit differently.

And there's a sensitivity there.

And I think when men have access to sex without commitment, they want to maintain it without like the whole like thing shit hitting the fan and

feelings getting in the way of the convenience of this kind of casual sex.

And I think that could just, it could be him just kind of massaging that relationship to just, you know, we're cool, right?

We're cool.

Everything you're telling me he has said to you kind of comes across as more, he's too in control of himself when around you.

Now, again, he might just need a wake-up call.

I think the thing you're going to have to practice is your delivery.

And I think

it's going to have to come with a level of assertiveness and confidence,

an emphasis on the confidence.

It's not, I really like you.

And I'm just like hoping you feel the same.

No, there's no, I don't, take the word hope out of your vocabulary.

I think you're an idiot if you don't, if we don't date.

I think there's a reason why you always come back to me, you know, in a way, you know, like, again, he might not feel that.

I don't know.

It's hard to really, based on what you're telling me, it's hard for me to be like, yeah, I think, but I mean, he does keep coming back to you, which is, is a nice thing.

And then again, like, if you think you're his type and you're confident he's physically attracted to you, there's definitely a chance there.

He obviously enjoys your companionship.

I mean, that's the thing is that like, there's a lot of, from your perspective, it does make a lot of sense.

It does make a lot of sense.

It's like, what is he doing?

He's just like never seen you that way.

And he's just always accepted you as the friend he has sex with rather than a woman that is possibly his future partner.

Yeah.

So I'm going back to my home city in the middle of September.

And like after we saw each other for the last time, he texted me just like, oh, like, have fun with you.

Like safe travels back.

And then we talked like a little bit back and forth.

And then he liked my Instagram, you know, all these little things that you look for.

He like likes my Instagram story.

But we don't really have that kind of relationship where we just like text back and forth.

So I guess I'm wondering as it gets closer to when I'm going to be back.

In my mind, there's like this concert that I'm going to in the city where I was like, maybe I invite him to come with me.

And I guess just like, how should I?

I feel like it should be in person, right?

Not over text.

Or what do you think?

The phone call?

Yeah, I mean, always, it's always better to deliver this in person for sure.

And certainly no rush, I guess.

You've waited 15 years.

I mean, I do think there's an urgency here.

This might be your last window.

Eventually, he's going to meet someone and hope meet you, you may too, you know?

And, and I think that's kind of part of your pitch.

It's just like, are we literally never going to try?

Yeah.

You know, we've, there's been all these opportunities where we've, in between us being in, with, with other people, we've hooked up, but we've never like taken the possibility of us seriously.

And honestly, I think we've been foolish.

You make your pitch, but you don't beg, you know, and there's that fine line between, it's like, make your pitch once and leave it at that.

It's not, it's not a constant thing.

If he does give you the, I don't, you know, blah, blah, blah.

And like, I don't know.

And then then you're just like, well, I think you're an idiot.

I think a little childish name calling can go a long way with men.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Don't be, you know, don't be mean.

But I think you want to like, I think you want to have a little edge to you.

Yeah.

Because there's, you know, like, that's the one thing that like doesn't come naturally for you.

If there's any part of them that likes an assertive, aggressive woman, that might be the thing that he's not seeing in you.

He's got to feel

like

he could lose you.

He's got to, he's got to feel like that this is the last chance you'll have.

I think that's what's, I know, eventually, like, this will have to end if we don't end up together because obviously my future partner will not be okay with this arrangement or maybe even friendship because there's a lot of history there, obviously.

I wouldn't.

In what world?

Yeah.

Like, I'm going to get coffee with the guy I've only just fucked for 15 years.

Yeah.

And then I lost my virginity too.

Like,

it's going to be like, why didn't you marry this guy?

Like, why does he want to have coffee with you?

Yeah.

And that's the thing.

You point that out to him.

It's just like, we're not like, this is it, man.

Like, I have no interest in being your friend.

And if we don't end up together, I'm going to end up with someone.

And like,

we are not going to always be in each other's life.

And if you think that we are, you need to, you're a little delusional.

And I think that's the aggressiveness that you, you know, you need to call him out.

Like, you know, he has taken, you know, you for granted in a way.

It's, again, just to repeat, it's that fine line between an assertive aggressiveness, a confident what you want.

This is, you're not trying this out.

You're jumping all in and you're saying, what are we doing?

Why haven't we tried this?

We owe it to each other.

It made sense why we didn't get together in college and why, you know, like that would have been weird for high school sweethearts.

And like, I don't want to get married to the guy I lost my virginity to.

And I'm glad we've dated other people and kept finding our way back to each other.

But are you really not going to try this out?

I'm perfect for you.

You know, you got to like,

you really got to say it like with that level of confidence.

And then if he's like, hey, I just, I'm sorry I don't feel that way, you say, you know, you're lost.

If you change your mind, let me know.

And hopefully I'm still available and still feel the same way.

But short of that, you know, this is your last shot.

You make it seem so easy.

It's not, it's not easy.

And you will be nervous.

And I do think you should literally practice saying this to him and you and be mindful of your body language and your confidence when you say this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, we all want what we can't, you know, it's just the same.

I don't, you know, like the

girls like the bad boys.

It's like, it's that he wants to, he's got to feel like he can lose you.

And now he, he just, he's, what he knows is that he can always come back to you.

He's really taken

access to you for granted.

Yeah.

No, I think all this makes sense.

And I think in the past, I was afraid to say any of this with the possibility of losing this or him.

You're 31.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I think it's just like, you know, I do want to get married.

I do want to have kids and I'm 31.

So it's not.

And hopefully the part that motivates you is you telling yourself, I don't want him in my life at 34 years old.

if he's not my boyfriend or fiancé or husband.

Yeah.

Because like things aren't going great if if you're still casually hooking up with the guy you lost your virginity to in your mid-30s after another relationship that didn't go your way.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

That's your motivation to say like, you know what?

This is stupid.

If I'm still fucking this guy at 35 as my fuck buddy, things have gone wrong.

And I've made decisions not in my best interest.

And so I want this guy out of my life if he's not going to be a part of my life and he's not a part of your life right now he is you know he comes and goes so yeah that's true it's not like i i mean i'd be losing the potential but i'm not losing like you're right he's not an active part of my everyday life yeah what what do you mean what potential well just that if we are meant to be together like even if you're meant to be together

This relationship is an example.

If you don't do something about it, like fate's not going to take care of it.

Fate will only do so much.

I mean, I'm not a big believer in fate, but this is an example of someone's got to do something, you know, like whatever you believe in, God, energy, they might put you in the same room together.

They might keep reminding you that, hey, it's just like, I'm trying to let you know, in this situation, someone's got to be bold enough to fight for this relationship.

And it's going to have to be you.

But you fight, but don't beg.

So you state your case.

You say it with confidence.

And then you say, hey, well, you know, if you change your mind, let me know.

Hopefully I'm still available.

But like, I'm done doing whatever it is what we've been doing for the past 15 years.

And I get it.

Like, you know what?

Last time I, you know, the crush part five years ago, whatever it was, you moved to a new city, great.

You know, it was just a bullshit excuse on his part.

It's not like he was doing that for you.

Right.

You know, he'll probably use a long distance as an excuse.

It's like, I don't want you to say, well, I would move for you.

Right.

I think you just say, I'm in the business of problem solving.

And like, if we want, if you want, if we want to make it work, we'll make it work.

Obviously, Obviously, like, you've known, I, I like being back here.

Like, you do that for the person you care about.

You really got to call him out on his,

like, every guy wants to be emasculated a little bit by the right person.

If he's being a little bit of a pussy to, you know, use the, the, you know, if he's being a little bit scaredy cat, he, he needs you calling him out.

He wants to be, he, he needs to be checked.

Yes, I agree.

And he needs to feel like you can take your power back and this relationship would be an equal footing.

Now he's just like, he's right now, he's the junior in high school who had sex with the freshman.

And he's always been like, you know, the upper classman in this relationship.

And you, this is about you showing up and

like reminding him that's delusional and that's not who you are.

And that's not this relationship anymore.

Okay.

Yeah.

You're right.

This is helpful because I, so I've been listening to your show for a very long time, like over five years.

I don't like, I don't even know, probably listened to the first episode.

I don't remember.

And I knew you'd give me the blunt, straightforward, what I needed to hear.

Like, I've been talking to my friends about this for probably 15 years, as you can imagine.

And they've given me all the types of advice and telling me what I want to hear sometimes, being blunt sometimes, but.

I needed a fresh perspective and yours specifically.

So thank you.

Yeah, you've done a lot of, it sounds like

mental gymnastics around some of the things he said to you and only use that as a way to continue doing what you're doing in the hopes that someday he will magically wake up and sweep you off your feet without you changing anything about this dynamic.

That's never going to happen.

Yep, that is, you just read me.

That's accurate.

If anyone tells you otherwise, it's never going to happen.

He would have already, if he was worried that he would lose out on the possibility of spending the rest of his life with you.

And I think, again, like you just, you need to change the way he sees you.

Yes, I will, I will do that.

So hopefully, hopefully in a couple of weeks, I could do that and I'll practice.

All right.

Does he follow you on Instagram?

Yes.

Yeah.

What's your content look like?

Mostly just weird, I don't want to say artsy pictures, but like pictures of the ground or the sky.

Like, I'm not really posting that many selfies or anything like that, but I did this past week and he did like that.

So, um, yeah, I'm not saying like slut it up or anything, but like, don't be afraid to look like a baddie on your Instagram.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, he just, you know, you need to remove you, you, he needs to see you in a different light.

Yeah.

And he needs to see you in a way, like, man, she's looking good.

You know,

you know, it's like, yeah.

Well, I, please keep me posted.

I, I want to know.

I want to know what happens.

Yeah.

No, definitely we'll follow up.

Hopefully, hopefully with exciting news, but we'll see.

Either way, I'll definitely let you know.

Most likely at first, he's not going to be like, you know what?

Thanks for saying.

Let's date.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're going to have to give him the,

well, your loss and just kind of be a little

bitchy, I guess.

If he, you know,

not

like, it's like, again, it's such a fine line between,

okay, well, you're an idiot

without being, you know, without like losing your shit or, or, you know, it's like, it's just all about you being confident.

It really is about you being confident in

how you feel and

that he's blind if he doesn't see what you see.

Yeah.

I will rehearse and use confidence and slight bitchiness.

Nothing too crazy, but a little bit.

You're it, you know, and he, he, he needs to wake the fuck up.

You're lucky that like fate has allowed you to keep me in your life, but like, this is it, man.

Yeah, I like that.

Well, I'm excited to find out.

Me too.

Either way.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, take care.

Thank you so much.

And just best of luck to you and Natalie and the show and your baby.

And yeah, I've been a fan for a long time.

Like I said, like even watching since the bachelor days.

So this is really cool.

So thank you.

Thank you for saying I appreciate it.

Thanks for listening and good luck.

Bye.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

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How's it going?

Good.

How are you?

Good.

What's your name?

My name is Sydney.

I'm 24.

And how can I help, Sydney?

Okay, so I can't commit to my non-boyfriend boyfriend because I don't like his haircut, which is a mullet.

Okay, how long have you been hanging out with your non-boyfriend, boyfriend?

About five months.

Okay.

And like you're being serious that you he wants to date you.

He's obsessed with you.

He loves you.

He's like dying to be your boyfriend.

I get that vibe.

I don't know.

I mean, maybe that's something that you can figure out or you are going to have follow-up questions that I imagine about.

Sure.

But, like, we haven't talked about it, but it's getting to the point where I'm like, I have to refer to him as my boyfriend, or otherwise, people are like, what are you doing?

All right.

Well, what does your dynamic look like?

How do you mean dynamic?

Like, what do we do?

What is, yeah, like, what is, you've been dating this guy for five months.

Yeah.

Are you having sex?

Are you guys playing with the house, meeting each other's families and friends?

Are you guys only hooking up on the weekends?

Has any of you said, hey, like, what are we?

Or I want to, I want more.

Has that never happened?

Like, what does this look like?

I got you.

I'll give you the debrief.

Okay, so we started seeing each other five months ago.

We were, we met on apps just looking for something casual.

We met up.

It was great.

Hello.

It was casual.

He's 30.

Okay.

So it was just like hooking up the first couple of times, but it was going really well.

So we just kept seeing each other.

Then like a month into that, I went over to his place and all of his roommates knew my name.

And it, like, low-key freaked me out.

So I was like, what, like, did you tell them that I'm like, how do they all know my name?

Like, did you tell them I'm your girlfriend?

And he was like, oh my God, you're so 24.

Like, only 24-year-olds forgot about being called someone's girlfriend, which I was like, okay, fair, but like, I'm, I'm, what are the vibes here?

And so.

And when he, what do you mean by freak out?

Like, what were you, like, first of all, why?

Why was it weird to you that people knew your name?

What did you want to be referred to as the girl?

I don't know.

I was just like, oh my God, you're telling your roommates about me?

Like, they know who I am.

He invited you over.

I know.

Like, I always go over to his place.

I'm frequently there.

Like, look, I know this is a little

but are you saying, like, you came over to his house and they're all like, oh, what's up, Sid?

You know, like, was it like that energy?

Like, I walked up and his, like, two of his roommates were smoking on their patio and he was like, or they were like, oh, hey, like, what's up?

And I was like, hi.

Yes, I am just here to like, fuck your roommate, basically.

Like, hope that's cool.

And then I'm like, so they know we're just in here hooking up.

Like,

what I know they don't think we're just in here playing board games.

Like, I know they know what we're doing.

And part of that makes me feel self-conscious because then I'm like, oh, I gotta, like, uh, we gotta play music.

Like, we, like, they already know what we're doing.

We can't, like, let them hear all of our business, you know?

Okay.

I mean.

Off the bat, I think it's more of an ick that he's a 30-year-old with two roommates than he has a mullet, but so be it.

We can circle back to that.

Okay.

Okay.

So he was like, you're like, whatever, all good.

We kept seeing each other, though.

We like went on like a date, like went to a movie and a dinner, which I was like, okay, this is like, he like asked me if I wanted to go.

And I was like, I do like hanging out with you.

And I do like spending time with you.

So yeah, why not?

While we were on a date, I did like like.

Just something about like being on a date with him.

I was just like, this is weird.

But like, I like spending time with him.

It was honestly because we ran into one of my friends friends, and I had to be like,

What do I introduce him as?

Like, my boyfriend?

Or, like, this is my friend?

So, I just blacked out and didn't introduce him at all.

He stood behind me, like, the Simon and Garfunkel album the whole time.

And then I walked away and was like, I feel really bad I didn't introduce you.

And he was like, It's totally fine.

Like, you don't need to freak out.

Like, you, it doesn't matter.

Like, you don't have to introduce me to your friends if you don't want to.

So, that was the first time we went out.

And then we went on like a trip together, like a weekend trip, like a three-day.

We got like an Airbnb.

and then

like i went on vacation he went on vacation so we didn't see each other for two weeks and then while we were both gone i was like i do kind of miss him like i do like hanging out with him did you hear from him at all yeah like we texted like almost every day do you know if he's hooking up with other people i know he's not you know he's not he said he's not i mean i trust him And did he offer that information or did you have to ask?

I didn't ask.

What happened was this was a couple weeks ago someone who i was seeing casually like in the winter was like hey i'm back in your city do you want to see each other again and i was like let me ask the boy let me ask the dude so i was like hey this is going on like what are the vibes like do i tell him like yeah it like whatever it would be fun or do you want me to tell him you're basically like do you care if i go this guy or or is there something more to us yes exactly And he was like, look, I don't want to tell you not to.

Like, I don't want to be the reason not to.

But also, like,

then I mentioned, I was like, it would just be like a little bit of fun.

Like, he's only in town for a couple of days.

And he was like, okay, well, I feel better that you're saying it would just be a little bit of fun.

Like, he was like, if you said it was going to be anything more than that, then I would feel bad.

So then that makes me think like, what does feel bad mean?

Yeah, like that I didn't follow up.

Cause I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Like, whatever you say, dude.

Yeah, I mean, I love that for you.

You don't love it?

Well, what I'm hearing is, well, I'm glad that you don't want to go be his girlfriend because then I don't get to have sex with you anymore.

Right.

As opposed to being like, no, like, I really like you.

And like, yeah, I would, you know, yeah, you're, you're your own person.

You're an empowered woman.

Like, I'm not, I can't stop you.

But if you're giving me the option.

not to share what I have with you, I don't want you to.

Yeah.

Now, maybe like, I don't know, 30-year-old guy in 20, 25, maybe he just doesn't have the guts to like man up and say something like that that in this day and age and maybe men i feel like a lot of you know i do i say i say this like every week now i i just think

men 35 and under don't really know how to be assertive without being pricks you know they don't know how to be charismatically confident and you know state what they want because they're so you know it's like you have two type of guys now you have these like red pill alpha toxic males or these like beta boys who like are just like so afraid to like man up well the beta boys are afraid of being perceived as the alpha males i think which is why they swing so hard in the other direction yeah yeah that's what i'm saying but they don't like that find that balance i'm like you can be both a respectful king and an assertive, confident man who like women see as like, this is a guy who knows what he wants.

And, you know, I'm not a woman, but like the women I know like assertive, confident men who want to kind of stake their claim, so to speak.

You know, last time I checked with my women friends, you all want a guy who says, no, I don't want you being with anyone else.

That's fair.

I want you and I want you from me.

And then you have the right to say, well, no,

you know, certainly.

But he was more like, well, you know.

you know, if you just suck his dick, I guess I'm cool with it.

You know, like, that's not the energy I want for you.

Right.

So.

well, I think, like, I think he's not going, I don't think he's ever going to be upfront with me and be like, I want to date you

because I freaked out about being called his girlfriend earlier in the relationship.

Yeah, I disagree.

Okay.

I mean, first of all, if that's the case, he's like, I don't know, got some grown up to do.

Listen, I, I understand from both your points of view that like, yeah, dating culture has become terrified of labels.

Right.

And so, you know, you have these situations right now.

But I think people who are going to end up together, they're not basing off, like, well, I can never, I don't want to be, she freaked out when we first met.

It's been five months.

And, like, I don't know what you guys have been doing over these past five months, but hopefully, you've been building a rapport and a comfort level with each other that you didn't have in the first couple of weeks of hooking up.

Whether you have a label or not, you know, you should, you should both, in theory, feel like

after five months, there should be, you know, again, that comfort level, that assumption of spending time together that you know um without the constant like i don't know if he's gonna call today or tomorrow whether you guys are acknowledging that comfort level or not hopefully it's there yeah i think it's there i mean like we definitely text regularly and like uh this is where why i'm like he's the non-boyfriend boyfriend because i feel like we're doing all the boyfriend things like texting about how your day is going, like when I can't see him for a weekend, like FaceTiming and like catching up.

Like, he started a new job this week.

And so, like, he was like really tired.

So, like, instead of like hanging out in his place, we just went and got dinner.

It was like one of the first times that we had, like, really, like, gone or just not gone to one of our places.

And, like, we're just getting dinner and whatnot.

And so, you actually had a date?

Or have you only had a date?

Yeah, or have you only in Netflix and chilled?

No, we've had dates.

Like, we'll go like to a movie and a dinner like pretty regularly.

Okay.

Like, yeah.

What's the most

relationship thing you guys have done?

I mean we've taken two weekend trips.

Okay.

So I feel like that's pretty relationship-y.

Yeah.

Who initiated that?

How did that go?

Who initiated it?

Yeah.

More

he did.

And how did it go?

Yeah.

Both went good.

I mean, one was last weekend and like

we were just like at a hotel like swimming at the pool.

And I'm like,

this is sweet.

Like he is sweet.

He is really nice to me.

Like maybe I do like him.

Like,

yeah.

why don't you just say you like him you know uh rather than maybe because because I'm a coward Nick

I know why okay I know why

I'm scared the well first and it lets us you know your original question well I'm glad we get into the truth it's certainly not the mullet you know like no we can of course

when is it ever yeah because like you know that you know just clarify that is a pet peeve he can always cut his hair and clearly hasn't stopped you from doing whatever you've been doing already you don't you don't he has cut his hair He has made an attempt.

It is still a mullet.

That's fine.

Whatever.

Let me ask you this.

Has he, does he still, is he still giving you the same energy, which is like that, oh, of course, that you're such a 24-year-old.

Like, does he still, from time to time, make some of those condescending comments about your age?

Or do you feel more like his equal over the course of the five months?

No, definitely more like equals.

And I feel like the only, or like, I honestly feel like I'm more condescending to him about his age than he is to me about mine.

I feel like he rarely brings it up, if ever.

I bring it up because he like struggles with technology sometimes and I like give him shit for it.

Cool.

Okay.

So you're you're you're comfortable giving him shit.

Yeah, you're not okay.

Very comfortable giving him shit.

Like I feel like the 24-year-old comment makes him seem like pretty broy and like, I don't know.

I just, we have a good rapport.

Like, yeah, I would say we're pretty like jokey with each other.

Like, I told him this weekend I didn't like the mullet and he dunked me in the pool.

Like, uh,

we're goofing around.

Okay.

So, what do you want to do about it?

Uh, I don't know.

That's why I'm here.

Because I'm, like, on one hand, like, uh, I do like him and I do miss him when he's not around.

And ultimately, like, I didn't hook up with that guy when he was in town because I didn't want to.

I was like, I, even though, like,

the guy, my, my boy, was like, uh,

oh, like, you can do whatever you want.

Like, just let me know, you decide, like, whatever.

Like, I ultimately was like, it's so easy.

And, like, we have such a good thing going right now.

And like, it's just like, it's so easy to be around him.

And it's so easy to talk to him.

Like, why would I want to do anything that would potentially compromise that?

And like, yeah, hooking up with another guy would probably be a bit of fun, but like, I'm having so much fun currently that like, Again, I wouldn't want to do anything to compromise that.

And I told him that and he was like, well, you wouldn't be compromising that.

Like, as long as you're honest and upfront with me, like, everything is like a conversation and we can like talk about it.

Um, which then I ultimately decided, like, I didn't want to hook up with the other guy.

And I told him that.

And he was like, Okay, like, like, I could tell that he was trying, like, not to have a reaction about it.

Um, and he was like, Well, I hope that was like an easy conversation and that the other guy, like,

was chill when you told him or anything.

So, what are you afraid of?

Ugh, how to sum it up.

I don't know.

I think like I haven't really been in like

a long consistent relationship before.

I would say like five months is probably like the most consistently I've like seen a guy in my life.

Well, I mean, I don't know if you're behind your peers, but from my point of view, I think...

But what do you want?

What do you want for yourself romantically in life?

You know, I don't.

I mean, I do want to like get into a relationship.

Like, do you want to get married and settle down and have a family?

Yeah, eventually.

Okay.

And when you say eventually,

what does that kind of look like?

Like,

probably like early 30s, like down the line.

I'm like, I don't want it to be something I prioritize right now.

This year I was not saying like, okay, I want to just like prioritize like.

Getting in a relationship and like getting experience with that because I haven't been in a relationship before.

Have you dated around at least?

I mean, yeah, like, you know, let's assume that like you shoot your shot, you guys date, and you're like, oh, fuck it.

I mean, I love this guy.

And you date for three or four years.

You're what, you're 27, 28, then, then you get engaged.

And this is the last guy that, you know, short of you guys

breaking up once.

And he ends up being the last guy you hook up with.

You feel like

you've had your fun?

No, like, I don't.

And I feel like that's part of why I'm gun-shy to get in a full-blown blown relationship right now.

It's because, like, I still, like, you know, I like to have a little bit of fun.

Like, I'm still like in that, like, a relationship isn't something I want to prioritize right right now.

And like, also, like, I don't know if I would like want my like potential person to be someone who like we started dating because like we were hooking up.

Like because it was supposed to be a one-night scene and then it just kept going.

No one cares how you met.

Certainly a relationship.

I know, I know, but like I care.

And like then I got to tell my mom and be like,

This is what was happening.

I'm from Kentucky.

Like it's like why does mom need to know the details?

Because she's gonna ask.

Like she's gotta know everything I've been dating him for five months and we built a relationship and like we kept hanging out and I liked him more and more and now we're boyfriend and girlfriend okay fair like everyone wants to know the meet cute and then I gotta be like we met on the apps that's what people do I don't like that's I know heavy listen if if you're holding out for some meet cute that like is worthy of a rom-com

Good luck.

You're right.

You're right.

This is fair.

And like, I know I'm like holding him to like an impossible standard as I do with all guys.

And like, this is what it comes back to is like, I have a standard that he'll have a specific haircut.

And now the guy in front of me does not have that haircut.

And I want him to change.

Like, that's like.

Well, listen, you, and as his potential girlfriend, you can, you know, Natalie, I grew a mullet for Natalie because she's like, I'm kind of into it.

So like, ah, fuck it.

I'll, and I sported a mullet for like six months, kind of, you know, I do things that my wife finds attractive.

I mean, now that I'm married, I only do, you know, it's just like, oh, sure.

Like, what, like, what turns you on?

Like, short of it being, like, me wearing a clown suit, like, I'm down to try it out.

You know, I want her to be attracted to me.

I do things for her, right?

Like, I'm, right, you know, I am not looking good for other women.

I'm trying to look good for her, right?

And, and vice versa.

I think that's fair that you're, you know, you don't want to prioritize a relationship right now.

All I'm saying is the old guy here who's like the big, playing big brother to you right now is like time flies and you never know when you're going to meet the right person.

And like, you need to get it out of your head how you're going to meet this guy.

You need to get out of your head all the like pet peeve and trivial, like all the little, like, I mean, do you care about him?

Does he care about you?

Does he treat you with respect?

Do you guys have fun together?

Like, do you see, you know, like, are you attracted to each other?

Like, you know, people have a really hard time finding that shit, you know?

You know, it's like, so I wouldn't be so quick to like, you know, like, there's no guarantees.

Like, right.

Even if he fucks you up a little bit emotionally and breaks your heart in two years, it might be worth it.

Like it might, you know, like that's a that's a rite of passage, so to speak.

What you don't want to be is what so many people your age are turning into is like these professional casual daters who don't really know how to be in relationships, who don't know how to like, you know, make sacrifices and compromises for someone they care about.

And that's what it takes to be in a relationship.

Like relationships have turned into these like self-serving, you know, I just want someone to hang out with me at my convenience and like pop in and out when I want, you know, and it's both men and women are doing it.

And like, this is not how it works.

And if you are someone who wants to someday settle down and get married, like, and you think this is a guy you really enjoy his company and you start to care about and you have fun together and you have great sex, like it might be worth a shot.

There's no guarantees.

Like you, you know, you're not going to propose to him and say, hey, like, let's get married next week.

You're just like, you know, but I don't don't want to keep doing this.

And I think it's stupid for us.

Like, you know, at the end of the day, if, if, if another guy calls and says he wants to have sex with me and I don't, and we're just doing the same thing, maybe I should take him up on it, you know, and vice versa.

But if we're going to like, you know, investing our time into each other, why don't, why don't we go for it?

Like, I don't know.

We might break up.

I don't know.

I might fuck you up.

You might fuck me up emotionally.

I don't know.

But in the meantime, let's go.

You know, in three years, you're going to be 27 and then you'll be three years away from 30.

yeah and i don't know how you feel about 30 but a lot of women have strong opinions about that you know it'll be fun to be 30.

okay good i'm glad you have the perspective i think too many people today are you know they're like powerpointing their lives right in a sense of like and that just shit doesn't work out that way and there's just there's just a lot of lonely 30 year olds out there who

kind of had too much casual fun in their 20s and really don't know how to commit or make sacrifices and and be in relationships.

And I'm not, you know, I'm not saying, you know, you can't fuck around all your 20s and right.

But I'm just saying, if you like him, you should try.

You can always break up.

You can always break up.

This is true.

Follow up question.

Okay, so he's coming over in like two hours to like, we're eating lunch together.

Okay.

Um, while I'm working from home.

Then he's going off to

eat.

That sounds like some boyfriend and girlfriend shit.

I know.

This is the thing.

This is the thing, is we do shit like this.

And then I gotta be like, people are like, oh, who is the dude?

And I have like, for like three months, they just referred to him as Mr.

Friday Night and didn't tell any of my friends his name because I was like, what are we doing?

Like, I don't know.

But then I got to tell people.

his name because we're going out of town together and what if he kidnaps me but he won't kidnap me because he's such a nice guy and like like i'm not actually concerned about that but i'm like i feel like i should tell people his name before i just go out of town with my mystery man i think it's fun the way you met if you ask me you know and you you you know you it takes so i mean if you heard if you ever listen to this show i always talk about how long it takes to build emotional connection the fact that you guys hooked up fairly quickly and he kept coming back for more definitely is a good sign that he likes you right yeah assuming he's telling the truth and the fact that you've been the only woman he's sleeping with and you is he the type of guy that if you wanted to sleep with more women, could he?

I believe so.

Okay.

He's been around the block.

All right.

But I say with all respect.

No,

you're like, my man can sling it.

There's a reason we kept hooking up.

But I, you know, I can say as a guy, that that's a great sign that he does like you.

It's very easy for men to have sex with women and stay emotionally disconnected, especially early on.

And the thing that keeps them coming back is the fact that they love having sex with you.

But over the course of five months, that's enough time to be like he is he's become a part of your life him coming over for lunch before he leaves for two weeks is making sure he gets some quality time with you and now are is the expectation you guys gonna have sex or is it gonna be just lunch i don't know how long his lunch break is he just started a new job so it might just be lunch

it might just yeah it might just be lunch okay so like the fact that he is is coming over to see you you know speaks to that this is a guy who does care about you and likes you and like that's you know that's hard hard to find these days people you know i don't know if you if you know if you looked out there but a lot of lonely people complaining about how miserable it is and how challenging it is to find like someone they like or you're even interested in right so are you are you asking me to shoot your i don't know if now is the time to like shoot his shot over lunch uh i'm like he's about to go out of town so then do i try to get it in before he leaves for two weeks what is he doing do are you afraid he's gonna go like whore around no no he's just like going to stay at his grandparents lake house in idaho So I don't think there's a lot of pouring around in Idaho happening.

Well, then there's no real urgency.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't know your rapport or comfort level.

Like this might be something you want to practice.

I don't know.

This is true.

I like to practice.

Great.

Well, if you like the practice, then I wouldn't rush it.

But I think it's going to, I think what when you, when you do it, you need to be assertive and confident.

And you need to be, you know, he does, he is older than you.

Right.

So like you, and don't allow him to, I guess, talk down to you in a way where he's just like, you're young.

You know, he's going to, he might make excuses, but you're, oh, you know, I don't know.

This is a guy, it sounds like he could be totally down, but I don't, I don't, you don't say, what are we?

Honestly, with what I'm hearing from you, it would make a lot of sense for you.

You could even do it at lunch, but I don't know.

Like, maybe you want to practice, but like, you could just be like, oh, by the way, I started calling, I started telling people you're my boyfriend.

We're together.

Yeah.

You're like, you have

that kind of playful rapport, it sounds like, where you could just, like, as a woman, it would be kind of a potential turn on for him for you to just just be a little assertive and aggressive and being like,

we're dating.

This is true.

I have thought about just referring to him as my boyfriend.

Like this weekend we were checking into the hotel.

I was like giving, passing the key out.

And I almost referred to him like, oh, I have to give it, like, my boyfriend has the key to the like hotel person.

And then part of me was like, I maybe should have just fucking done that.

Yeah.

I mean,

like, like, seen what he done.

I just don't know.

However you say it, you don't say it where you're asking his permission to

define the relationship and give him all the power by saying, you know, what do you think we should do?

I'll do whatever you want.

And if you're not ready, that's totally cool, man.

Like if he, if

you get an answer you don't want, I think you have to bluff or at least bluff.

But I honestly wouldn't bluff.

I would just be serious and be like, well, then we're going to stop doing this okay because honestly like unless uh you know it's not about

the whole like well i'm not ready to prioritize relationships i've been able to run a business grow an empire all while having a girlfriend and honestly having uh having a girlfriend a fiancé and a wife has like made me exponentially like

i think more successful you know on things like that when you find the right person that person like you know giving you confidence when you need to pick me up supports you there's the one person who believes in you when you feel like no one else does and things like that.

I don't know.

What are you, what do you, what do you have in, like when you say, I don't want to prioritize a relationship right now, what are you giving up by having him in your life right now?

Like, what are you not able to do?

Like, what sacrifices do you feel like you're going to have to make if next week he's your boyfriend?

Yeah.

I'm just like, I'm

like right now, at the point I am in my career, a lot of my time is not my own.

And so like my schedule is not really at my own liberty.

And so I feel like the hours of the day that I do have for free time I have to be like a little selective with it and like I am very social and like I see a lot of my friends and I feel bad sacrificing the like time

let me ask you this do you yeah if all that was different is now you guys have the label and the emotional security that like this is something we're gonna start actually like investing in and seeing if there's a future here why do you why does anything else have to change right now?

You mean if I had more time?

Like if he was your boyfriend last week, you're acting like he's

he couldn't go to grandma's for two weeks without you.

You're right.

You know,

you don't have to be the couple that is like

inseparable.

Right.

You know, like you guys can make your own rules.

Like every relationship's different.

You know, nothing has to change other than, you know, and just like, and you could say that, you know, it's just like, to be clear, I don't want anything to draft to like really change right right now.

I mean, if we do do this, I hope that we continue to grow our relationship.

And I don't know, we'll always check in and communicate in terms of like how much more time you want to spend.

Obviously, I'm very like invested in my career right now.

I don't know what he does, but I'm assuming he has is a well.

And I want to, I, I want, I just want someone who supports me in my career right now.

And I want us to like continue to take trips and time to time.

And maybe, maybe things will change, but like, obviously, you know, my friends are super important to me.

I want a boyfriend.

It doesn't mean I want to like drop everything else in my life.

Yeah.

You know, you don't have to do that.

Like, you can strike a balance and you just have to talk to him about what your guys' expectations are in this relationship.

Right.

And I feel like he does, like, I feel like he does respect, or he knows that I'm very busy.

And he like respects that.

Like, one time we're supposed to hang out.

And then one of my like close friends was having like a really bad day.

And I was getting coffee with them.

And then I ended up like spending the rest of the day with them.

And I texted him and I was like, hey, I'm going to like rain check today.

Like, i need to just like hang out with my buddy and he told me later he was like i thought that was like so hot just that like you're a good friend and like you try to like be there for people and so which then in turn like makes me like him more that he is like respectful and understands that like over time hopefully it could just probably happen organically that you'll just you know like you're either gonna like enjoy spending more and more time together or you're not And again, like six months from now, one, you could change how you feel about him and vice versa.

The only real risk, as long as you guys just communicate and are mature about this, is the risk of like breaking each other's hearts, which fucking sucks.

And it's terrible.

And it's, you know, but it also is a great lesson if you're willing to learn.

And you can learn a lot about yourself dealing with like that type of emotional.

tragedy and like you will be stronger for it and you know whatever and you'll figure your shit out but like eventually you're gonna have to date someone to know what you like in a relationship And I don't, if I'm you, I don't want to be the 30-year-old person who doesn't really know what it's like to like have to make compromises and sacrifices in a relationship.

And that's not, you know, you're not in a position if he's your boyfriend tomorrow to make the same type of compromises and sacrifices I'm making today in my relationship as a married man with a kid, you know.

But you can still be boyfriend and girlfriend and you can still make some, like you made a compromise by not sleeping with that guy already.

You made a sacrifice yeah you know you communicating with him hey can i rain check can i see my friend that's is a is a in some ways is a little bit of a you know it's like it's it's that expectation of having to check in with someone you know why so many guys out there who are fuckboys who don't want a relationship right now is because they don't want to have to answer to anyone right they don't want to like it's like yeah we can have sex but if i don't call you tomorrow you don't get to say you don't get to ask why if you don't hear from me for three weeks, you don't get to ask why.

I don't owe you anything because I told you I don't want a girlfriend right now.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, right.

So being in a relationship is just having expectations of each other.

And you guys already have some kind of expectations of each other.

So

for you guys to play games with each other and just pretend.

and not communicate like what you both want to work towards is silly.

Right.

This is true.

Never thought I would take advice from a man on a podcast, but these are all good points, Nick.

Yeah, well, I'm sorry.

It had to be me.

It's okay.

These are like, but I'm like, you're right.

This is all true.

Like,

and I feel like these are things that like other people in my life have been like politely telling me or being like

like rolling their eyes and I keep being like my non-boyfriend boyfriend like they're sick of hearing me use that term but I don't know what else to refer to him as in a little yeah like you know this is me in the nicest possible way saying you need to you need to grow up a little bit uh that's fair yeah and so does he like honestly like the 30 years old and two roommates is uh it's not something he just moved to my

i mean that's fine but like i get what you're saying i hope he aspires to grow out of that situation i think

yeah he does before he moved into this place he had his own place okay okay i'm not trying to defend him no that's fine i think think it's i think it's fine if you're 30 and you have two roommates it's okay you know i'm not saying it's not exactly not everyone has reality tv money

i hear you but i've just i hope there needs to be a level of discomfort he has with it okay okay i can hear that you know as opposed to like this is awesome i feel like i'm in college still you know what i'm saying like eventually some of his friends should get on his nerves when it comes to like living with them you know just there should be a level of, I definitely like, it's fine for now, but this is not where I want to land any, you know, and I, and I'm anxious and excited about, like, being friends with my friends and not living with them.

Right.

You know, right.

Yes.

I understand this.

I mean, listen, I didn't, I,

I think I was about 30 when I had, last time I had a guy roommate, 31.

Two is still aggressive.

32?

No, I said two, just two roommates.

Are you?

Oh.

Is it like a major city?

It's like a house.

Is it like a major city with just crazy rent?

Yeah.

It's one of the big ones.

One of the big ones.

Okay.

Well, that's a little bit more understandable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I hear you.

It should still bug him a little bit.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll check in with him.

I'll be like, does it bug you that you have two roommates?

I'm kidding.

I won't do that.

I don't want to put any A.

Eventually, it's a good question.

Yeah.

I'm already fighting the mullet battle.

Like, I can only, like, I have to climb one mountain at a time.

Okay.

Yeah, just have some fun.

Like, it'd be like, I think you're my boyfriend.

I'm not going to make you get a haircut yet.

It's fine for now.

Like, you can have some fun with it.

I don't know.

Test them out.

Well, so, like, he did get a haircut.

And then he was like, he just cut it shorter.

And he was like, it's not a mullet.

It's just a little mullety.

And I was like, babe, that is a mullet.

You calling each other babe?

Yeah.

Okay.

If he rejects your request to define this relationship.

then I think you really need to point out be like, well, then you're an idiot.

You're calling me babe, but fine.

You definitely need to shut it down, though.

Okay.

Like immediately.

Like figure it out.

Yeah.

Like when you say immediately, you mean in two hours when he comes over for lunch?

No, no, no, no.

Whenever you, if you, if you, if you shoot your shot then, whenever you do, if you, like, from everything you're telling me, this shouldn't be like a big thing.

This should be like, all right, someone had to do it.

I'm going to do it.

Let, we're dating.

We're together.

You're my, you're my boyfriend.

Yeah.

If, if he's like, I don't know if I want a girlfriend right now, now, if he gives you that shit or some version of that, you're just like cool, then I'm out.

Yeah, because like this, like whatever this is, this is you, you, you are my boyfriend.

Whether you right, whether you want one or not, you have a girlfriend.

And so, if you don't want a girlfriend, then you don't want me or this, and I'm, and I'm out.

Yeah, and you need to like be very confident and treat him like he's insane and

in the nicest, calmest possible way.

Right.

It's, you're chill as fuck.

You're just like, well, you're kind of an idiot.

And I think you, you know, don't call me again, I guess, you know, because,

and he will.

Yeah.

No, I like, I'm like, it is very relationshipy.

And like, like, I, I don't think it'll go.

Like, I think he'll be like, oh, okay, cool.

Like, you're chill with it.

Like, I think he's waiting for me to, like, drive the car, if that makes sense.

Well, then go ahead and drive it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's like, I feel like I got to put the key into ignition a little bit.

Okay.

Well, let me know when he says yes.

I look forward to.

Oh, happily.

I would, I would love to give you an update.

All right.

Well, good luck.

Thank you.

We will see how it goes.

Or maybe you just do it at lunch.

I don't know.

I mean, if you, if you're that confident, I think you should be, it sounds like you have every reason to be.

Right.

Then.

Right.

Like his mom is asking my zodiac sign because she wants to know like what the vibes are.

Like that to me, I'm like, okay.

I like when I say any fact of information you like roll your eyes a little bit yeah i mean because again like you know and i say this in the nicest possible way you're a 24 year old woman who's giving a little bit of 17 year old girl that's fair yeah and i think it's you know what it's fine you know it's whatever but like you have all the qualities of a 24 year old woman and you're just choosing to like downplay where you're at in life and

you know, you're playing, you know, and it's like, that's what I mean, you're like, you know, grow up a little bit.

And again, like you can, you can have a boyfriend, you can break up.

And if I'm you, I would rather be 26 with an ex-boyfriend and that lived experience.

And then knowing that like you can, you know, date other guys or whatever than to have not actually tried with this guy and not know what it's like to make those types of, you know, compromises and sacrifices for a relationship.

And then, you know, get close to 30 of being like, I've never actually had a real boyfriend.

Like, if I'm you, I wouldn't want that for myself.

Yeah, that's true.

And I definitely agree, especially when you spell it out like that.

All right.

All right.

Good luck.

Thank you.

All right.

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How's it going?

Hi, Nick.

I'm Margaret.

I'm 26, and I'm wondering how my unconventional unconventional family is affecting my ability to be happy in a relationship.

All right, well, tell me about your family and why you think it's stopping you.

All right, so I'll start a little bit from the beginning.

Well, not the beginning, but

sometime in high school, I came to the conclusion and I found evidence that my dad is not only cheating and being unfaithful with my mom, but also ended up being gay, which I'm a hashtag ally.

So just wanted to set the record straight.

But like, it definitely added some elements of just fear and doubt in every single relationship since then.

When did this happen?

So, freshman year of high school, I was actually in a relationship at the time.

I ended up being in that relationship for four years, but that's- I mean, like, your dad coming out as gay and finding out, I'm assuming he cheated on your mom with a man.

Yeah, so that, so that's where I was getting to.

It's like that happened freshman year of college.

Um, and I was in a relationship at the time.

So, that person was there for me pretty heavily at the time, which was nice.

But yeah, I found out freshman year, kind of took it to my mom.

She pretty much knew and was like, yeah, I kind of had some suspicions, but both my parents were teachers and on a teacher's salary, it just really wasn't doable to

kind of get out at the time to her.

So from the moment that I kind of suspected it, I kind of just kept looking for more reasons for her to get out.

So anytime I'd see another piece of evidence or like have more suspicions i'd be like mom come on like now's your chance are your parents still together

no they ended up finally divorcing you a sophomore year of college okay and when you say unconventional family you mean just my dad came out as gay and and

yeah okay i wouldn't call that like an unconventional i mean it's something that happened

yeah It's not like what your family done, you know, when you said unconventional family dynamic, I was like are you guys like in a circus or something or

you know like are you to have like a devout you know crazy religion where you're just like you know your family's like helicopter parents like listen the reality is is like how old your dad 50 something to 55 right so like probably i'm sure for a lot of gay people it's still not easy to come out can still be a challenge depending on where you're from or who your family is and yada yada yada but certainly as a 55 year old man i'm sure it was much more difficult back then and and i think a lot of gay men just like were very closeted and just got married because they thought they should and yada, yada, yada.

And, you know, your dad obviously suppressed his feelings and whatever.

But like eventually your dad could no longer do it.

Like the sad also reality is, is that people cheat, right?

That's not okay.

It's terrible.

It can be very destructive and damaging for a relationship.

But like sometimes when people cheat, it feels a lot less fucked up than in other situations people cheat.

And even like how, you know, how they cheat can also be like a fucked up thing.

But like maybe not that it's ever okay to cheat, right?

But like whether, you know, you're gay and you're closeted and you haven't been able to properly deal with that, again, doesn't make it okay cheating and doesn't justify cheating.

I guess in a way it like humanizes that person because it's not like they were just like callous and bored and like, well, I just wanted to fuck someone else and I don't like you anymore or whatever.

Right.

I guess I only bring that up because you're, you reference, oh, well, like ever since that happened, it's affected my, how I've tried.

Like, I guess, sure, I get it, but

why are you making your dad's sexuality and his, and his very understandable

struggle with how he went about his life, which also, by the way, is a reason for your existence,

and then turn that into an excuse for you to like, you know, not ever trust any guy you date.

I mean, listen, whether your dad.

came out as gay and cheated on your mom, the world is littered with examples that, you know, people are unfaithful.

You definitely, it's always a risk when you get into a relationship and are vulnerable and give your heart to someone that they could break it.

That is a risk of doing that.

Yeah, I can explain a little bit more.

So I think the question is a little hard.

It comes off a little bit, maybe unclear because there's really no way to like sum it up into one question or one statement.

And I would say that for me, it's complicated.

It's not even about him coming out as gay.

I think the problem is, was that he never really did come out.

So like he's never really taken accountability, never admitted anything.

It just one day, like he had, he had multiple opportunities to be very truthful to me.

I had brought it to him and said, hey, what's what's this?

And he was just like, I don't know.

He just denied it.

And I just.

That's how you, that's how you addressed it?

Sorry?

That's how you went about it?

Well, okay.

It's actually kind of wild.

So I, I found like a letter that was written to him and it was clear that it was mail to mail type of thing so I ran inside and I went to tell um my mom about it just because I again like we had a very like our family dynamic before that was already pretty rough like nobody like he didn't get along with anybody he didn't make an effort um he really didn't want to be involved in our lives as much as like my mom did my mom kind of like solely took care of us like he was there he had a job and contributed and all those things but anytime we were home like it was walking in on eggshells like it was like i'd be yelled yelled at for any little thing if I spilled water.

Like it was just, he was, and I understand it now from a, from a perspective of I'm a lot older and wiser, but it's still hard because again, the lack of accountability has really, I think, led to this issue in my life.

So getting back to what eventually happened.

So I found this like letter and I went inside to tell my mom because again, I was looking for reasons.

I'm like, mom, like, here's your opportunity.

Like, I knew she was unhappy too.

And I'm like, you shouldn't have to live your life like this.

Like, I don't think anybody should.

And so I brought it to her, and she goes, Okay, send me, send me a picture of it.

And I think I Frodie and Slipped and I sent it to my dad.

Okay.

And like, so in that moment, I had to take responsibility of like my own action and you know, follow up the picture with like,

what is this?

Like, I had no other choice.

So I went about it that way.

Like, instead of being like, oops, whatever,

I just, I said, what is this?

And he just denied it.

He's like, I don't know.

And then never spoke about it again.

And that's the other thing.

My family family doesn't like to talk about things once they've happened.

So like, it's been this, like, just kind of like, okay, I guess we'll move on with normal life.

And I would have, if he came to me and said, hey,

I'm gay, I would have been like, okay,

I'm so happy you shared that with me.

But it was like the lying, the deceit.

I found out so much later that he was sneaking around like with, you know, friends and like things like that.

we didn't know about people started not speaking to my mom because they knew and didn't tell her like there's so much deceit that like he never, ever admitted or never took accountability for that like, I feel like I just have this like fear of, I think my fear isn't of trusting.

I have a weird ability to trust still, but I think that's my choice, right?

Like I think trusting is a choice.

So I've made a choice to trust somebody because they're not my dad.

They're not this person.

They're not that person.

But for me, it's like, I don't want to end up in a situation where I have to make that decision, whether I have kids or not.

That's a big thing that's constantly weighing on me.

Like, do I want kids?

Because I see what happened to my mom and what she had to go through.

When I hear people who have kids with someone who revealed themselves to be a terrible partner and an app, you know, it can be a real struggle.

You know, I think a child is just the greatest blessing that you could have.

And whatever.

you know, as long as you have access to your child and you get to connect with your child, like it's worth whatever come, whatever challenges come with.

That's just my personal opinion.

But yeah, there is no denying that, again, like being vulnerable and giving your heart to someone is a, is a very scary and very risky thing, knowing that feelings constantly change and that people do lie and can be deceitful and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But I do think you're having a hard time in understanding why separating.

the deceit and lies that your dad has done and how he treated your mom and how he treated you and the fact that maybe he just like wasn't the best dad and you have the right to be upset and hurt and and want him to be accountable for that to still like empathize

with your dad's struggle you know people cheat for all different reasons but let's say it's a reason that you know they have a bad relationship with sex or whatever or something like that or them cheating isn't it just like them wanting to be horny and not really giving a fuck about you it doesn't make it okay

but it it helps you empathize with why they might you know again maybe that person needs therapy.

Maybe that person has a lot of work to do on themselves, you know, and that person can feel shame for what they did, you know, which not that you want someone to feel shame, but like, yeah, as human to human, like you, if someone did a, if someone hurts you, you want them to at least feel bad about it, right?

Because otherwise, fuck, they're like a sociopath.

So I guess what I'm saying is if you want to say to your dad, if you want to hold your dad accountable for not being the best dad, that's one thing.

And regardless of his sexuality, he failed you as a father in some respects, it sounds like.

I think that's separate from what he did to your mom and the reasons for it.

And that's even also separate from him owing you the truth about his sexuality.

And that last part when you like,

when I said, but that's how you did it, if you want your dad to open up and have it be okay, you know, it's like, you know, imagine if it was like, hey, I know you were abused.

Like, are you going to fucking tell me or what?

And you're saying, well, if you just tell me, I would accept it, but like, you need to tell me.

No, first you have to like, you have to create a safe space for someone to come out with a truth that their entire life, they've been afraid to admit to themselves, let alone other people.

With the fear of being completely ostracized and rejected by their family, their community, their children, and things like that.

And when you like send evidence, whether it's accidentally or not, or go to your dad and be like, I know, are you going to take accountability?

That's like he hears, are you going to take accountability for being gay?

Is basically what he's probably hearing.

He's not hearing, hey, dad, I love you no matter what, and I am proud to be your daughter.

And I certainly have some issues with how, you know, you've, you know, maybe been a dad, but I still love you.

And whoever you are, and whoever you love, I will always be your daughter and you will always be my dad.

And I want to have have an honest relationship with you.

And whenever you're ready, it's okay to just be honest with me.

And I hope that you can trust me to accept and love you for whoever you are.

That is like worlds different than saying,

so are you going to tell me?

Yeah.

Yeah.

At that point, so like the evidence wasn't like, it wasn't clear that it would mean that he was gay.

I also want to be clear about that.

But whatever the reasons was, you suspected that your dad was hiding something.

Absolutely.

And you you failed to create a safe space for your dad.

That was horrible.

Yeah.

No, I, trust me, like, I look back at that and I'm like, I, I had immediate, like, immediate regret.

I was like freaking out.

I'm like, what do I do?

And I had to like own up to it at the moment, in the moment.

But after that, like, since then, a lot's changed.

That was a long time ago.

That was, yeah, that was freshman year of high school.

So fast forward to like more recently, like I, he knows that I have nothing but a supportive relationship with his partner.

Actually, he, he eventually like introduced somebody to me as a friend.

And I knew what that meant.

And I was like, okay, you know, like, I'm, I'm just happy.

I'm just happy that you are, you know what, like including me in your life in any capacity.

He's never told you he's gay.

Like, yeah, and it's kind of funny because it's like, I, I know, cats out of the bag.

Like, you don't, you know, but he never outright said, like, hey, I just want you to know this about me.

I mean,

I can only assume it's he's afraid to.

It's hard for him to say.

It's like, it's, again, again, I don't know your dad and I don't know, I can't speak for what it's like to be gay.

But from my friends and close people I know who are gay, it's, it's a real struggle.

And

there's a lot of internalized hatred and fear and

things like that.

And that's what I wanted to try to avoid.

Yeah.

And so, again, when it comes to wanting to have an honest relationship with your dad about who he is and who he loves,

he really needs your help and he needs an immense amount of grace and understanding.

And you are, the when you talk to me about your dad, you give kind of an energy of you owe me the truth.

And I, you know, listen, and I understand it from a context

from the context of like, you're my dad, and you should be honest with me, and therefore you owe me the truth.

I get the logic.

Yeah.

You know, but again, that's what I'm talking about.

You're needing to try to separate and carpartmentalize, if you know, like the fact that your dad has this secret, this truth he hasn't shared with you and this obvious fear to share with anyone and you wanting to have your dad take accountability for how he hurt your mom or didn't step up as a father um yeah and i'm lucky to say that now like i i think because like i did open my arms to like his partner and things like that like it without him having to say it we have built like a relationship of like this is where it's at like it's clear to me that he is gay like he knows that i know like it's one of those things where he just knew that i knew so i think that's where he didn't have to say it it's obvious now that i know so there's no like you need to tell me anymore like i don't need that i have i left that go a while ago i think that was just i was you know in the storytelling part of it like that's where i was at one point of like you know i wish he would have just told me but you know i got past that at a certain point when they when they got divorced and accepted that part and just like was happy that you know he was letting me into that new life and since then like i've accepted him in any capacity anything he's willing to give me you know like and same and vice vice versa.

Like, he takes what I'm willing to give him.

Like, we definitely don't have like a super close bond, but we we hang out, we go to the, we go to the gay clubs and the gay bars, and you know, we have so much fun and do those things.

But I still feel like, obviously, there's an element of like, yeah, sure, I wish he had been a little bit more vulnerable with me.

I do like look back on like that one message I sent probably did affect him.

Like, I've, I've definitely thought about it.

Did you ever talk about that with your dad?

The problem, yeah, the hard part is, is, like, when I try to talk to him about it there's a level of defensiveness that comes up even when i come with open arms like i've done it in his in front of his partner and like his partner is like the most calming soothing person which is amazing so like i that's why i chose to do it like any conversation i've had has been you know usually in front of that person why in front um because he offers that calmingness to my dad so But yeah, he's, he might offer a calmingness, but you don't know if he's comfortable having that conversation with his daughter with anyone present, regardless of how calm they are.

Yeah, I've had it with his partner in the room and separate as well, but usually it's...

Why do you keep bringing it up?

Sorry?

Why do you keep bringing it up?

Why do I keep bringing it up?

Yeah.

The last time I talked to him about it was probably five years ago.

But why?

Just because I felt like...

There was conversations that just hadn't been had.

Like, I was holding a sort of resentment of just like, again,

why do you feel like you couldn't show up for me in the way that I needed to when I was younger?

And like,

when I did try to have open and honest conversations with him, any sort of subject, it would be defensive.

So, I just really just wanted to have, like, I guess for in order just to have closeness.

I think that's what my goal was, is just to feel closer to him.

Okay.

I get that.

It just seems like your approach to being close to him is to bring up controversial topics or, or, or, or to address conflict and to hold him accountable.

And if you want to hold your dad accountable, hold him accountable, but that's different than, that's a different goal than I want to be close with my dad.

And being close with your dad might require you to accept certain things and give yourself whatever closure you need without necessarily getting it from your dad.

Right.

You know, like a lot of how you're speaking is sounds like it, but it's the principle of it.

Like, I know my dad knows that i know he's gay but like he hasn't told me and that pisses me off and i you know he should tell me because i'm his daughter and that says fucked up i can see that yeah yeah and i just think in some of these very sensitive topics and that require some nuance it just requires a lot of grace and understanding and then seeing the bigger picture and ultimately asking yourself, what do I really want going forward out of this relationship?

And again, you have every right to have resentment and anger towards your dad for, again, how he treated your mother and how he

treated you.

But, I mean, how's your mom doing these days?

She's thankfully remarried.

She's pretty happy.

But I talk to her often about it just because, like, I don't think she's really worked through it either.

I think we share the same, like, maybe it is lack of closure.

Maybe it is just like lack of understanding.

Like, I don't need to understand him being gay.

I'm so, I'm fully supportive of that.

Like, I, I, if you.

Well, what's your biggest question?

If there's closure that you need or questions that you have, what's the question?

It felt like, I guess, looking back, like, there was resentment towards us for something we didn't choose, right?

Like, I'm very blessed to have been born, you know, like, especially because if he had come out sooner, like sooner, I might not be here.

And I've also acknowledged that.

But I also think that, like, there's this level of like, you know, if you began hating your kids, your wife, and your life for this.

then that's a decision of like, okay.

Do you think, do you feel like he hated you?

No, no, hated the situation that he was in.

Okay.

But that was a choice choice to me and in other in other areas of his life like with the way he talks to me about certain things like um his views about money and this or that like he's a very resentful human just like about everything it's like the world is owed to me not like i should earn earn this or whatever like so there's that there's that type of thinking that i that i see and hear from him when he speaks yeah and so for me it's like okay you made this choice you made this choice to have this profession that you knew hit a ceiling you know at a certain point.

You're not going to be getting paid more than a certain amount.

So instead, he's resentful of everyone who has more than him.

Okay.

And I hear about it all the time.

Other than it being kind of obnoxious and frustrating, which I totally get, why, why are you making it your problem?

It's hard to be around it, I think.

And I'm trying to, I think what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to be the opposite of that.

Okay.

And it's, it's really hard when I'm surrounded by it all the time.

And I'm thinking,

are you around your dad constantly and surrounded by him?

not any yeah I mean I see him like a decent amount just because again he is my father I'm trying to I'm trying to get closer to him I totally get that you know but I again I just

you're not letting go of some baggage that you have and it's just understandable and relatable but what I'm hearing is you are in total control of the issues that you're having and the feelings that you're feeling there's a level of grace and acceptance and understanding you're not willing to go there yet you can have a a relationship with your father

without totally liking everything about who your father is.

It might not be the relationship maybe your friends have with their father,

but it might also might be a better relationship than many other people have with theirs.

Our parents are imperfect people.

Like, your story is, I guess, more complicated or intense or than maybe others.

But, you know, it also sounds like you have a dad who loves and cares about you.

His life maybe didn't work out the way he envisioned for himself.

You know, gay or straight, he's certainly not the first person like that.

It can certainly be an example, you know, to you of like, I don't want to, you know, our parents can be either, there are always examples and they can either be an example of who we want to be or an example of who we don't want to be.

And I think in almost everyone's case, our parents play a role a little bit of both.

You know, a lot of, it's just like, I, I love my parents' character or not love my parents' character.

Or like some people like really admire the professional careers of their parents while don't admire who they are as parents, you know, or like their capacity to love.

And my parents made a lot of sacrifices on their own personal life for the sake of having 11 kids, you know, like I've chosen a different path for myself and I still like really admire who my parents are.

Back to like this, like, I'm just curious, how do you feel like this affects your personal life or your dating life?

I think like

in a, in a way, like I might have mentioned before, just the fact that like I saw what my mom went through.

And I just think like, I've seen a lot of relationships not work.

I don't know if it's, I don't, I mean, I'm sure that's a shared experience with a lot of people.

Like,

you know, even just growing up with the family friends we've had, like a lot of them ended in divorce or whatever.

So for me, I haven't had a great like role model of like, what does a happy marriage look like?

What does a happy relationship look like?

So I think I've tried to figure that out myself, obviously, which is the right thing to do.

In every relationship that I've had, like, I'm lucky to say, like i've had good relationships like my last the part the last person i dated was the first um i would say real relationship like serious relationship and unfortunately that was my first heartbreak he broke up with me out of like nowhere um

i'm trying to learn to accept no closure i've learned that from you

well it's not no closure but it's just not getting the closure from sometimes it's not the closure you're gonna how old are you guys i think 26.

okay so i'm still young um and i and i also realize that and like i think there's an element of like knowing that i'm still so young i also usually date older guys um so my last relationship he was 30 i think 32 and i was 24 25 and then my uh my boyfriend that i'm with now he's also 32.

the reason i'm thinking about all these things of like is this my person how do i know he's the one is because i am dating somebody that's a little bit older.

So like every little thing that comes up, like let's say there's something that triggers me.

I think the one thing that that i wrote wrote and mentioned in my email was like there was a car break-in that i had like so i live in um a big city and my car was parked out front my boyfriend was sitting or sleeping over at the time and we heard the car alarm go off at two in the morning and i looked out the window he looked out the window we saw the guys running away so i went into fight or flight i am pretty calm in those situations which i think is a skill that i've learned from trying to be like opposite of my dad for example um And so I remained pretty calm, ran downstairs, opened the door, saw that it was my car, and we inspected the situation.

And I ended up just running back upstairs.

He wasn't like as freaked out as I was because he's had this happen.

He lives in another metropolitan city and his car has gotten broken into before.

So I think his perspective was like, okay, this happens all the time.

But to me, this is the first time it happened to me.

And so what I really needed was like him to show up for me in the moment.

And retrospectively, he didn't show up for me the way that I wanted him to.

And it really triggered me.

How did you want him to show up?

I needed some type of like support, like just even like a hug or like some type of comfort.

I know it was the middle of the night, but like I went out and taped my car.

Did you communicate that?

He came down with me, but he didn't come outside with me.

And then like

the cops here, they don't come quickly at all.

They take like a few hours.

And he wasn't even very thrilled about me calling the cops.

He's like, there's no point in calling them.

I'm like, I need to call them because I need to put a police report in so that I can, you know, put it through my insurance and everything.

And so he went back to bed when I was obviously like shaken up.

And instead of waiting for the cops with me, he went back to bed.

And it just like really kind of upset me.

Like, I didn't in the moment realize how upset I was or what I needed, but like, have you communicated that?

It just sat with me.

To him?

Sorry?

Have you communicated that to him?

Like, yes, we have.

So that was something.

Yeah.

We, we eventually talked about it.

I tried to like, sometimes I try to like give it some time to think, think through if I'm actually that upset about it.

I think I sometimes also try to like, just get over things when they actually are affecting how I'm feeling in the relationship.

So I realized that it was still like sitting with me and like not in a good way.

And so I finally brought it up to him.

And, you know, he was apologetic.

He's very patient and he's very good at like listening.

And so we did work, we did talk about it.

But like, that's just an example of like anything, anybody could do something like that.

It's just like, it freaks me out of like, oh my God, god if i'm in a relationship with you does that mean you're not going to show up like does that like is this a sign and so like anything like that that happens it like triggers me i i really am trying to figure out why what and what did you say to him and what did you say back and do you feel like it's been resolved i'm having these residual feelings after the car situation i felt very alone in the moment um

I felt like I really needed you to be there for me.

And I know that I don't communicate like that I'm extremely extremely stressed out or very anxious.

And I, maybe you didn't realize what I needed, but like, I just needed some form of comfort from you.

And I didn't receive that.

And I felt just like alone during and then alone after it.

And I just felt you kept dismissing the way that I felt because you kept bringing up your experience.

Like you kept bringing up.

Yeah, that seems really, that's a sounds.

Very valid and sounds like you communicated that very well.

What did you say?

He understood.

And, but he was like, you know, I came from a place of like, it was was a crime of opportunity not not necessarily a crime of like passion or anything and i i think i i understand that too so i think but but your point was

he's right to like logically you understood his point of view you're not denying that like he's been kind of desensitized to that you know kind of violation but like he didn't empathize with it being your first time and regardless of how he felt about it like you know you wanted your man to step up and and emotionally be there for you regardless of how he felt about it.

And you're hoping next time he does.

And do you feel like he, do you understand?

Does he feel like he understands that rather than

explaining again why he thought the way he like, it's not about why he wasn't wrong to feel the way he felt.

Yeah.

He was, he made his feelings more important than your feelings in that moment and chose to not just like.

be there for his girlfriend when she needed some emotional support.

Absolutely.

And that is the one thing, like, I felt like when I left the conversation, I did feel like he was being a little defensive in the beginning.

But then what, what really helped was like the next day, he sent me a really nice, like long text saying, you know,

I've thought so much about this.

And like, I'm, I'm just so sorry that I didn't show up for you the way that you needed me to.

Awesome.

And so that was good.

That's what I like, that's really what I needed to hear.

But just like, I feel like in my past relationships, like, and a little bit in this one sometimes, I just feel like I expect, I try not, I try to like not expect crazy things from them, but what I'm willing to give is what I kind of expect in return.

And like, for me, I try to look at it this way, like, is what I'm asking them something that I'm willing to give?

And usually the answer is absolutely 1000% and I already am.

So I'm feeling like in

most relationships that I've had, the men aren't showing up the way.

that I'm willing to.

And it's, it feels like there's this like imbalance of like effort.

And I just, I'm, I'm wondering if I'm the problem, like of like, am I expecting too much, but like at the same time, I'm not asking for anything that I'm not willing to do and am not already doing, if that makes sense.

Yeah, that, that's great, but what's, what's the problem?

I mean, just that's, that's in like a lot of scenarios, like

how much time I'm willing to spend, how much I'm willing to go visit them or.

You have your expectations of yourself and your hopes of how your partners are.

And I think that's great that you check in with yourself about your expectations to wonder if they're reasonable.

Most of the time, that's just a matter of opinion and perspective or just preferences.

This situation, your boyfriend didn't meet your expectations when it first happened.

You know, you were disappointed.

You sat with it.

you process it.

You still felt the way you did.

You felt valid in your feelings.

You communicated that effectively.

He heard you.

He processed.

He listened, took some time, responded, affirmed your feelings, and then acknowledged that he was not only, he was disappointed in himself.

And I guess you're both, I guess, waiting for the next time when

well, I mean, it might not be a, hopefully certainly a break-in, but a time in which you feel a certain way and he, he doesn't, like, he doesn't have that same feeling, but he recognizes that his girlfriend needs some emotional support and validation and comfort, even though he doesn't need it.

And that's what you want, right?

That's a good and healthy relationship.

That's the most we can hope for.

Having our partners

magically just do the right thing every time, the first time is great, but like kind of unrealistic.

I mean, yeah, you don't want a boyfriend that you have to like train.

every little thing, but I'm guessing this guy, your current boyfriend, wouldn't be your boyfriend if like he was like he did everything wrong, but you almost want him to do everything right and then get frustrated when he doesn't and kind of annoyed that you have to occasionally explain yourself.

Right.

Yeah.

And I guess that's where the problem, like, I don't, I don't know what the many,

many times that I've had to bring things up of like in this relationship and in other ones.

And it feels like I'm constantly having to like, and I don't feel like it's anything crazy.

Like it's just like this rubbed me the wrong way.

you know, I'm communicating that this made me feel a certain way, or I'm feeling like the effort is lacking here.

Like whatever it is.

I'm, I feel like it's consistent in every relationship that I'm in.

And then it's just like, I don't know, because I see all these people that are like getting engaged and getting

married.

And how do they know that?

It's consistent.

How do you know?

I mean, no one's perfect.

Yeah.

I don't know how everyone knows, you know, it's just, you know, it's just, and people often get it wrong.

You know, for me, it's like, Natalie made me feel like whatever we go through, and we've been through a lot that she made me feel loved and made me feel like she wanted to fight for that love and relationship as much as I wanted to and it's and we both made each other frustrated and hurt each other and all these things that happen in relationships and with you know and to me for me it was

her willingness to do that and a bunch of other little things like I you know I never felt like I had to compete with her which I wasn't always the case with other relationships but like when you're you're saying like, well, every boyfriend I've ever had, I've always feel like I've had to like point out things that frustrate like some pet peeves of mine.

Well, part of it, that's who you are.

On some regards, have you high standards?

I'm sure on some, you know, or at least some standards, you're comfortable with communicating those standards and in hopes that people, you know, meet your expectations, which is normal in a relationship.

And again, back to like, what are you wanting?

Are you wanting like, hey, how you communicate it and how they receive, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you're, you're just like, I never want to do that.

Again, no one's perfect.

Eventually, you know, you might get in a relationship where it's just like, well, we've never fought or had it, like, well, that just may be, there's just a lot of excitement and lust and the honeymoon phase is just longer.

But the end of the day, if you are comfortable being your truest self with your partner, then that's going to annoy them.

You know, it's just like, we're all annoying.

And finding the things you love about them, regardless of the fact that they annoy you, is a a good place to start.

But like, you know,

there's no guarantees.

But like, yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah, I don't know how that correlates with your relationship with your dad, you know, but yeah, so yeah, I'm wondering if it is.

And that's, I guess, like, sometimes I wonder if it is or if it's not, or if I'm just like looking for a connection as to why I'm like not sure.

Yeah, part of me is like, you know, we're getting into the whole, like, I'm not a therapist and I don't, I'm just not in my position to diagnose you and things like that.

But you still have some

resentment and frustration with your father.

So you should work through that.

My very unprofessional read on this is that like when it comes to who your dad is as a person and who he's chosen to love, you might need to give him a little bit more grace than you're giving him and have a little bit more acceptance for his shortcomings than you're willing to give him.

And if there's some things that you still feel hurt by that you haven't got off your chest, by all means, address that with your father.

But the way you're talking, it's like you just have decided not to let some things go.

You can't change the past.

And I don't know what you're, what he could or should say that would, you know, really like it's, you know, there's, again,

it's the principle of it type of energy you're giving.

You know, you come across as someone who has like, you know, and I say this as a compliment, like a, a lot of conviction and maybe like a, you're, you're confident in what you think is right right or wrong.

And that's great.

It doesn't mean that like people can disagree with you, can't disagree with you, but like sometimes you have to let shit go, you know, like sometimes you have to accept that people feel differently than you.

You know, you've heard me say this on the, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

And you have a lot of I want to be right energy.

I love that.

Yeah.

I love that quote.

I do try to think about it that way.

I think like, as it pertains to my dad, like the letting things go.

I think I've let a lot of it go.

I think the one thing that's like hard is that it's continued um into his current relationship too and like i really care about his partner i'm very close with his partner fair enough but that's not your you can't make that your problem you know like you that's the fixer in you and again like that's your choice if you want to have a relationship with his partner and side with his partner you can do that but as a choice you're making you're not obligated or whatever and again you do not have to like all the choices your dad makes and you're not going to.

And it's not your job to fix him.

And if you want to be your dad's therapist or moral compass, you can be.

But I think you're just better off than just having him be your dad and accepting him as a flawed man.

And you can't change his perspective.

And you can't change a lot of things about your dad.

You have decided to make some of those problems your problems when they don't need to be your problems.

I think that's a very fair thing to say.

Yeah.

Yeah, because like, honestly, I'm hearing a lot of positive, how you care.

you know, it's just like you have a one, you have a boyfriend.

It sounds like it's overall going well, and you shared a story about some conflict that you experienced and how you guys both handled it.

I don't know, I don't have it really any notes for either of you, you know, like

so, like, you know, yeah, there's no guarantees, you know, like being in love is a leap of faith, getting married is an even bigger one, having children,

you know, having children, and like all you can do is every day wake up and either literally or kind of figuratively check in with each other and make sure you, this is a relationship you still choose to be in.

And I guess when you choose to get engaged and married, it's the trust that this person wants to keep choosing you for the rest of your life.

And then, you know, like, obviously, like your dad kept a very big secret from your mom.

And like, if you have some baggage or some like childhood trauma from like the fear of like, you never really know who someone is.

And is this guy holding baggage from me?

Then you should definitely work through that and, you know, see see a therapist for that and work on those issues.

But

I definitely don't think he is for one, but like we, him and I, we both got out of long, or his, his was more of a long-term relationship.

But the person I'm with now, like, he got out of, I think it was like a six-year relationship before me.

And I got out of that.

I think we were together for a little over a year, but ended differently.

And like, that was something like, I feel like we almost trauma bonded in the beginning about it.

Like, and then we actually have both had quite a year of change, like a ton of change job change he moved locations for me he moved here pretty much for me from a different city so it's just been like a whirlwind and so i feel like now i'm finally like after the whirlwinds is settling down trying to like sit here and be like okay we're getting to that year mark now what and i feel like there's this block in my mind of like

how do i get over the hump of like seeing a future this person and not trying to think about everything that's gone wrong or every hardship we've faced and try to like think positively about a future and like, if I see myself having kids with this person, because that's the, that's the risk you, you know, have to take when you're dating somebody older.

You kind of have to like, not know, but I do feel this pressure of like, I should have an answer for him.

Well, it seems like more like you want to figure out if this guy's going to hurt you or not.

And unfortunately, there's no way to guarantee that because he doesn't have to be a bad guy for his feelings to change and him to like hurt you and break your heart.

But that being said, like, this hasn't even been a year yet.

And what happens in a year and a day?

Nothing needs to happen.

You can just keep enjoying the relationship.

You're only 26.

I'm not sure when you want to get married or have kids or what conversations you're having.

But like, it's all it is, is a conversation you have with him, you know?

And if you two stay together, then you will probably get married and have kids if that's what you want for yourself sooner than if you guys break up because then you will have to be single again and meet someone else and develop a relationship.

Like, I didn't choose to wait till I was 40 to have a kid.

It's just how my life played out.

And with hindsight being 20, 20, I'm really happy with how it has.

But, you know, you can't avoid frustration and pain and things like that.

And I think, you know, I empathize with like, it sounds like you had a tough childhood in a lot of respects.

And, but yeah, like you also have some good things.

You know, you do have a father in your life, which sounds like despite all his flaws, you feel like he loves you and you have a relationship with him.

And that's, you know, better than a lot of people.

Yeah, that's better than a lot of people.

And not that like you, you don't have the right to be frustrated, but like, I think you just need to chill out a little bit.

Yeah, good assessment.

Be happy when, when good things are going and, and check in with yourself and your partner when things feel

disconnected.

And that's all you can really do.

And try not to add unnecessary pressure on yourself or the relationship or him if it doesn't need to.

And try to be mindful of when you're projecting some stuff you need to work through onto you know him or your friends or or or your dad and then ask yourself sometimes because i think you have a habit of of doing this is like

why am i addressing this is this something like for example like your car got broken into uh your boyfriend didn't step up the way he did and if this is a man i want to keep dating potentially get engaged to whether it's two years from now or five years from now does he have the capacity to make me feel safe and supportive that's an important thing to address um that's i think that yeah the question bringing up like why your dad didn't do or do things in the past or like or you know like certain things just because you think he should have and he hasn't yet what is me confronting this situation going to accomplish am i is it going to help me move forward with this person or am i just going to feel validated and right

or am i just going to get the closure i've deemed myself like worthy of getting i think you're right I think when you when you mentioned like have those conversations with your partner, like that's, I think, what we're doing now.

And this is kind of why I called in of just like, with a question of, do you want kids?

Do you want kids with me?

Do you want to get married?

Do you want to get married to eventually me?

Like those are, I mean, again, he's a little bit older.

So those are the questions that are being asked.

And those are the conversations that we're having.

And so that's where I'm coming into like.

I think all these things are coming to a head.

And so I'm trying, like, I don't think like two years ago, I was thinking or worried about all these things.

But now now I'm starting to like worry about think a healthy way two big like do you want to have kids and do you want to have kids with me those I know two very different questions I don't know I don't even know a period if I want kids oh that's the problem so then why are you asking him no he's asking me that oh okay he's asking you if he wants you he wants to have kids with you well just like because of the trajectory of the relationship it's gonna it's gonna eventually get a point where we talk about maybe getting together and all those things well I mean you know you you know if he knows he wants to have kids and you're not sure that's definitely a potential problem because that would put that in the non-negotiable.

I don't have an answer.

Why don't you think you want to have kids?

I think, like, again, just like the fear of like, not only just having a kid, but I mean, it changes your life, but also just having a kid with somebody, you know, that's maybe not the right person or somebody who will change and eventually not show up.

the way that they need to as a father and a husband.

I mean, that's, I think, where I'm was, you know, coming to this with all of that.

The husband part, more unpredictable, but most of the time, you know, not always that's for sure uh and i understand why you have second guesses because of the relationship with your father but like you know it might not work out for you guys but like if this is a guy who cares about being a dad home and talks like a person who looks forward to being a dad someday um chances are whether well regardless of how things work out for you you'll be lucky enough to have a a good co-parent and hopefully i mean obviously you want more for yourself but listen it's not my place i'll from personal experience if having kids is something that you think about, don't make that decision off of fear.

Yeah, I appreciate all of your advice today.

All right.

Well, thanks for calling in.

Thanks, Nick.

I've always listened to your podcast since like day one.

So I appreciate you listening.

And keep us updated on how things are going.

I'd love to learn in maybe like a month or two, like how you process this conversation and how you applied it and if it's changed anything.

But it seems like you do a good job of checking in with yourself.

I think the big, again, the big takeaway is like, be mindful of like, is it worth it?

Do I need to pick this fight?

Do I need to be right and validated?

Or is this important for me to address?

Yeah, I think that's a really good thing.

And I think a lot of times you're doing the former when you should be doing the latter.

Absolutely.

Okay.

All right.

Good luck.

Thank you, man.

All right.

Take care.

All right.

Thanks for the call.

Bye-bye.

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