E1037 – Special Forces Reunion

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Valfowl Special Forces Reunion Edition.

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Speaker 2 What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the Vile Files. This is the Special Forces Reunion Edition.
We couldn't be more excited to be with you and our finalists. Really excited to be with you guys.

Speaker 2 We are filming here in New York. We'll hear the sounds of New York throughout this episode, probably.

Speaker 2 Congratulations to all of you guys for making the finale. So let's just give a big round of applause right there.

Speaker 2 We did it. We have obviously a great lineup.
In the back, we have Andrew East, Cody Brown.

Speaker 2 Up front.

Speaker 1 Sean Johnson East. Brianna Lepaglia and Gia Judice.

Speaker 1 What a group. Look at us, guys.
What a group. Going in.
I mean, like, did you ever think you would be here? No.

Speaker 1 I thought I was going to die there. Yeah.
Did you have an expectation of like, oh, I'll probably leave day two, day three? Or the whole, was every day like just pushed to the next day? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was my mentality. Yeah.
It was like, get through to get back on camp. and make it to the morning.
It's like, once we get back in our cots and the lights go out, we can survive another day.

Speaker 2 Well, I wanted to give a big shout out to the ladies in front. You ladies were

Speaker 2 the real finalists, no offense, to the guys in the back who got eliminated during the interrogation. I know, Brianna, like technically,

Speaker 2 you didn't pass the course

Speaker 2 as a fellow Special Forces recruit and winner.

Speaker 1 Just saying. Period.
Just saying.

Speaker 2 I felt like you got screwed over.

Speaker 1 There was a lot of rule changes.

Speaker 2 I felt like there were changes and rules because we were watching the finale and you were like, I'm part of Special Forces. And I'm like, no, no, this is.

Speaker 1 She did it.

Speaker 2 She did it. This is the time we're supposed to.

Speaker 1 The final

Speaker 1 when I watched you, your season is one of the only ones I watched. And I remember you have to find that breaking point to say it.
And I was like, okay, feels like it's almost over.

Speaker 1 It might be the time to say it. But I guess I didn't listen to the rules.
It's whatever. I made it.
far. We had a briefing right before we got sent out to do the trek.

Speaker 1 And all I remember is Rudy, the very last thing he said is, things are different this time.

Speaker 1 We will be coming to rescue you. And I just, I remember thinking, like,

Speaker 1 because they went way too long. They went so much longer than they even told us.
And I was like, are they actually coming? Or do we have to do this trend? Oh, look. What is it going to be?

Speaker 1 When we heard the birds chirping,

Speaker 1 I was like, okay, we made it. Like, it's ending.

Speaker 1 It didn't end for like another seven hours. We went into like 5 p.m.
It was so bad.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm excited to hear all the juicy details. I know, as someone who's been on the show, like watching it back can be a little frustrating because this is an experience for all of you.

Speaker 2 Like, just put your heart and soul out there. These challenges lasted hours.
Often, we're getting to see glimpses of these moments. I'm excited to hear more about it.

Speaker 2 Also, the five of you are very dynamic personalities, and I definitely want to like hear more about you guys as people. I do want to start just by like, I'm just always fascinated with the show

Speaker 2 because,

Speaker 2 you know, for the people who don't know, obviously when, when Fox comes and asks you guys to come out, they pay you to show up, right?

Speaker 2 So there's a little money up front, but from the moment you get there, you can leave. You can show up and be like, this is not for me.

Speaker 2 And so for the five of you, I'm just, I'd love to hear from all of you. Like, what was the thing that made you not quit? You know, like you didn't need to do this.

Speaker 2 You didn't need to put yourself through this experience.

Speaker 2 You know, Brianna, Brianna, you carrying those chains and like, you know, suffocating essentially, like, truly, like, when people have come up to me and ask about the show, I'm trying to be like, no, they literally torture you.

Speaker 2 This is not like a metaphor.

Speaker 1 This is not a show. There are craft services that you go to.

Speaker 2 And none of you had to do it. So I, there, it, to me, I have a lot of respect for all of you because it takes a certain type of mentality and a certain type of resilience.

Speaker 2 And I'm just curious from you, and I'd just love to maybe start with Gia. What's the thing that made you say, I'm going to keep going? Like, what was it inside of you?

Speaker 1 Honestly, as much as like the challenges were so scary, they also gave me a weird thrill. So I like enjoyed it, oddly.

Speaker 1 And the physical stuff, it all was motivating. So I was like, all right, I got past day one.
I'm making it to day two. And it just was kind of that mentality.
I just kept pushing myself each day.

Speaker 1 And we all told each other, we're not leaving. So like, I'm not leaving without you.
You're not leaving without me. And we just, we all really motivated each other.

Speaker 1 That also kept us all going, I feel. Brie, what about you? I don't know why the hell I was there, but it was great.
It was amazing. But I think after each day, you truly felt so proud of yourself.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if you can feel that anywhere else, like going through literal torture or like the physical things that we went through and just the mental game of it, like getting over your biggest fears in front of people and doing it while people are screaming in your face, you feel so proud of yourself.

Speaker 1 And it's just like kind of an adrenaline rush. So at the end of every day, I was like, holy shit, like that was just a really good feeling.

Speaker 1 Like I'm going to sleep happy with my performance, even if I did cry the whole time. And you, I don't know, it just made you want to keep going.
You didn't want to give up on yourself.

Speaker 1 It felt like if you quit, you were giving up on yourself. I feel like that was very obvious.

Speaker 1 It shined through the screen. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We have, of course, Sean being like, Myrtle Ball, that was kind of fun. Just a bees.

Speaker 1 Myrtleball, I will say, was fun. It was terrifying, but it was fun.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Your friend died.

Speaker 1 I was definitely concussed. For me, I competed at the Olympics when I was 16, and I did all the blood, sweat, tears stuff my whole life leading up to that moment.

Speaker 1 After the Olympics, from 16 until, honestly, Special Forces, I used the Olympics as an excuse to never have to commit to anything again. It was like, well, I did it.

Speaker 1 So I don't have to work out or finish this marathon or like whatever it was, whatever goal I had in mind, I was like, I don't really need that.

Speaker 2 I've been to the top of the mountain. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And I think it kept me from committing to anything and working hard to do anything again. And so I started doubting myself over the years that I was even capable of doing that again.

Speaker 1 And now having three babies and wanting to be like an example, I wanted to prove it to myself that I could. So showed up and didn't give myself an option.
I said, this is 10 days. It's not one or two.

Speaker 1 I just said, it's 10 days and I'll see my babies in 10 days. Wow.
Damn, did it, Correct? Andrew? Doom, do it.

Speaker 2 Honestly, so you watch the past seasons. When we got the invite, we watched the past seasons and it's all this once in a lifetime stuff.
You're like, oh my gosh, this is so cool.

Speaker 2 Like this would be just so fun. I would pay to do this stuff.
And then, you know, Sean and I get to do it together.

Speaker 2 And so we're making these like memories together, having all these experiences together. And I went in so confident that I was like, there's, I'm going to dominate this thing.

Speaker 2 I'm going to do so well in this course because I thought it was just physical. And that's like my only hobby is fitness, which is, you know, so sad because I'll talk about that later.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 2 last time I talked, he said you're into philosophy.

Speaker 1 Yes, he has a doctorate. Okay.

Speaker 2 Anyway, so I show up and I was like, oh man, so quickly humbled. And you realize that you can get legitimately injured.
I cracked the rib. My nose got busted up.

Speaker 2 And you're like, wait, this is dangerous.

Speaker 1 Like, they're Cody, Cody. Just, it's not worth it.
It's not worth it. It's dangerous.

Speaker 2 And they're having to jump out of a helicopter and they give you brief training. It's, it's like a little training.

Speaker 2 They give you no training.

Speaker 1 It's 15 minutes for each theme. Well, five to 15.
Oh, man. Each challenge is just five to 15 minutes of instruction and then you're supposed to pass.

Speaker 2 That was the biggest thing that surprised me when I did it.

Speaker 2 Cause, like, you know, for anyone who's done TV before, if you're doing anything remotely dangerous, there's always like this long-ass safety course. Yeah.
It's very detailed.

Speaker 2 You're, and this is like you have DS is 500 yards away, waving their hand, and another DS is like, watch that, do that. And you're like, all right, you're up.
And I was like, what?

Speaker 1 It should have the most training and there's the least. Is your hard job? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 this is a timed event yeah

Speaker 2 but i i loved it i love the uh the approach to life of like make yourself comfortable being uncomfortable and so i just like you're in this place with all these new people and it is such a unique environment where i feel like we're really bonded you know what i'm saying it's like i feel like i'm bonded with you and the other people have done the show it's like no one else knows what that thing is like so uh it was really fun and i'm glad i did it the way you showed it sheer curiosity i wanted to see what the next day had um i felt like i was paid for 10 days to be there So I was going to be there for the 10 days.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I wanted to see what the next thing was.

Speaker 2 What do you mean by like the next thing?

Speaker 1 Just like, what's the next challenge? Because what would happen is we'd go through a challenge. And I agree, Murder Ball was absolutely fun.

Speaker 1 110-pounder takes me down, a former wrestler, and I'm giggling. Sure did.
Because it was, wasn't I giggling when you took me down? I was just,

Speaker 1 it was funny to me.

Speaker 1 After that, she was mad.

Speaker 1 After that event, I'm in the vehicle with Mark Estes and I'm like, dude, in what world?

Speaker 1 I was just marveling. I just tackled a pro football player.

Speaker 1 You know, I was geeking out just a little bit, even though I didn't know anybody before we got there. But I was like, I was geeking out on the mere experience of.

Speaker 1 the elation of having done it and and survived. And like, I'm going to run this.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do this i'm gonna see the next day and it was just sheer elation the damage was is that everything that happened would haunt me till something else happened and so i've been haunted ever since um

Speaker 1 the interrogations

Speaker 1 and i need something new to get that out of my that out of my ptsd system leaving sean in the uh the building didn't didn't over trouble the

Speaker 1 interrogations i tried to come back to it but billy billy wouldn't let me you know episode seven was really my crash i will say we were both miserably awful it was just as much me as it was you i mean taking the hostage in as y'all are like putting on your gas mask and y'all are just like he wasn't coughing he never coughed i don't i it was a massive failure and as billy would say i was a flapping chicken also you didn't get to see the actual 20 minute

Speaker 1 screaming session that the DS had

Speaker 1 towards us after that.

Speaker 1 Not two minutes like you saw on TV. It was like a

Speaker 1 lashing. 30 seconds on TV.
It was,

Speaker 1 I thought Billy would take my number right there. I thought four was going home.
Right there. I just, I failed that so badly.
And I felt like I had led Sean, in a sense, into the depths of stupidity.

Speaker 1 I mean, because that's where we were. And I'm back going to Andrew, dude, I got your wife killed.
Sorry, man. It was just like, I expected that number to come off of me at that point.

Speaker 2 Adding to that, King, kind of to your guys's point, I know, you know, again, being a part of it and watching it back, this is such an intense experience. These days are.

Speaker 2 hours long. These challenges are so intense.
And then you watch it back and I get, it's a TV show. There's multiple stories they have to tell squeezed into an hour.

Speaker 2 So there's so much the audience doesn't get to see.

Speaker 2 I just love to have you guys kind of rift a little bit on, because I'm sure when you're watching it back, this is a very personal experience that you all had.

Speaker 2 And I'm sure watching it back, there are a lot of moments of like, well, why didn't we get to see this?

Speaker 2 You know, and I'm sure just personal moments where you all felt like very proud of yourselves or you can't believe you overcame something.

Speaker 2 And I would just love to hear just moments throughout reliving the experience of things that we didn't get to see.

Speaker 1 I'm so shocked they didn't show the suicide workout where we all almost died. Oh my God.
And it was my fault can you set the stage for us is the slow

Speaker 1 we walk up this mount it was mount everest like it was

Speaker 1 peaks to peaks it was yeah it was doing the rope challenge and you guys saw me kind of freak out on the rope and say like i can't see like the grow pro was like going in front of my eyes like help

Speaker 1 like so mad and then he's like screaming at me and i was like i cried that whole time down the mountain because he was so, Fox, he was so mean to me.

Speaker 1 It was like a three-mile run up to the wires and like a three-mile run back down. Which they did not show now.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 No, that's the stuff they never really showed.

Speaker 1 Jesus. Jesse, we all were like almost dying.
We almost left.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So we get down

Speaker 1 and they go, some people on this course like to be disrespectful and not respect the course and not respect the DS.

Speaker 1 And I'm standing there like,

Speaker 1 this is yum. Are you talking about?

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, I'm so sorry, guys. We have our Bergens on.
We start suicides up and down this mountain. It's up and down.

Speaker 1 200 yards?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's about 100 yards one way and then the other way. And so they, the suicide, you know, they just, um, they just keep rotating us.
And then they'd say, hey, winners are rewarded.

Speaker 1 So I smoke past Randall and Andrew. And then it's like, psych, next time.

Speaker 1 I just, it was kind of a cheap shot.

Speaker 1 You smoke past everybody.

Speaker 1 I wanted to just beat an F NFLer to the end. And so I just went snuck past him.
And then

Speaker 1 Q goes, Psych, next time, and run back up. So never try to be the winner because

Speaker 1 it might not pay. It was just over and over and over.
Yeah, and then they would throw in lunges and then plane. Or bear walks or whatever.

Speaker 1 It was just anything you could think of. And like,

Speaker 1 there were multiple times where me and Bree would look at each other and just be like, are we quitting right now?

Speaker 1 There were like 15 laps.

Speaker 1 And that was horrible. Like

Speaker 1 crying. I felt so bad because one, they were all running because of me and this was all happening because of me.

Speaker 1 And it was actually just horrendous. Like it was horrible.

Speaker 2 Do you guys do any like prep or training? Like, are you guys like physically like working out every day? I know Andrew, his whole hobby is, you know, is working out.

Speaker 2 I think Cody goes to the gym a few times, but like you ladies, like how much physical training do you guys have prior to going to this course?

Speaker 1 I think we could tell I didn't have any.

Speaker 1 We really couldn't tell.

Speaker 1 I didn't answer everything. I went on a half mile run the week before.
Okay. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to die.

Speaker 1 I have to quit vaping. So I did on the day that we started the show.
And yeah, I was in the back a lot, but I was trying. I was like, all right, if I can see them, I'm with them.

Speaker 1 And I just tried to keep up. And she just kept being like, I remember what was, it was when me and Cody went on our mission.
You're just like, Bray, come on, you got this. Just jog.

Speaker 1 We need a light jog. We need a light pace.
And then I was like, all right, just let me get in front because if I'm starting the pace, then we can all stay together.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that was Sean's biggest advice, even to me, because

Speaker 1 I think I had the strength. Like I work out like pretty often, but my endurance, like I don't, I don't like running.
So Sean was like, gia, like we're small.

Speaker 1 You got to get in the front so that you can like

Speaker 1 set the pace. And that's why I was always in the back sometimes when we were running because like their legs are a lot, you know, longer than ours.
And I was like, I can't keep up.

Speaker 1 But.

Speaker 1 That was probably the hardest thing for me was the running aspect of it. Andrew, anything happened that you wish were shown?

Speaker 2 We had a whole half day of doing this canyon hike.

Speaker 2 They didn't show any of it. It was like this crazy hike to this canyon over these boulders.
We jumped over like this cliff.

Speaker 1 Oh, I doubt.

Speaker 2 This chasm.

Speaker 2 Like, how long was that?

Speaker 1 I looked at him.

Speaker 1 It was like six hours. Yeah.
They smoked us for a half hour after you brought us back. They didn't show any of that.

Speaker 1 Poisonous bronze. Oh, yeah.
We could have like twisted an ankle 5,000 times on that. Terrific sprint down a canyon.
A few miles. We're not hooked up to anything on the side of a cliff.

Speaker 1 Like if someone in the back were to fall, it was actually really sketchy.

Speaker 2 We would really stocky.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was crazy. And I remember I fell.
I wanted like a blooper reel of me because I know I was in the front for that. Cause like, I was like, all right, let me go in the front for this, guys.

Speaker 1 I can't keep up. And I tripped over something.
My bergen fell over my head, face blanket on the ground. And I started laughing and cute, and was like, this isn't funny, Brianna.
Get up now.

Speaker 1 Oh, it was so bad. But we didn't show any of that.

Speaker 1 That was the only time where I feel like production crossed the line because the safety guy, every time we were going over a cliff, he would just grab me and put me down because it was probably like a 12-foot drop.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And these guys are like climbing down it.
And I was like, I don't know how to get down. He just grabbed me.

Speaker 1 No, yeah.

Speaker 1 We had to jump from like cliff to cliff that day. Oh, yeah, yeah.
I like almost cracked my kneecap. It was bad.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so that will never be shown.

Speaker 2 Speaking of Q, he was one of the DSs that throughout the course, he was probably the meanest on our season.

Speaker 2 And he was like one of the DS that like throughout the course, I was like, I want to get his validation.

Speaker 2 Like I wanted like almost like a hug from Q because he was just telling me I was a piece of shit constantly. Who was the DS that for whatever reason you you guys wanted to like prove yourself to?

Speaker 2 Because I think they were all very good at at certain levels, like. finding a way to get through and try to drive you guys.
Who motivated you guys the most?

Speaker 1 i was at q and rudy motivated me the most like throughout even billy the person i wanted to prove it to was foxy because i thought he hated me and

Speaker 1 then i mean i find out he doesn't hate me i don't know i really bonded with like i want to say like probably q the most like i like cracked q on like day two I like I made him laugh and like yeah do you remember what you said yeah I was like alone walking around I don't know what I was doing, but Q like comes in and I was like, can we like break character for a minute?

Speaker 1 Like, I need some like realness from you right now. Can we just like laugh? He just like started laughing and was like,

Speaker 1 you got me. All right.
And I like, was like, okay, I see some like human life in you.

Speaker 1 But he was awesome. I think my only way of saying there, they don't really show any of that, but I would just always crack jokes and be like, when they laughed, it made me really happy.

Speaker 1 But I think Billy got me through the show. What they didn't show on episode, was it two where we were like in the plane sinking? Yes.

Speaker 1 I've like really lost it going up there. I was like trembling, shaking, crying.
And Billy took me aside and really like walked me through it and was like, you can do this. Like, it's all up to you.

Speaker 1 It's in your head. He got me through that.
He got me through. fighting.
He got me through clearly the chains. You guys saw that.
Like without him, I probably wouldn't have made it to the end.

Speaker 1 So Billy was like, I was like, he was my God in that show. He really helped me a lot.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'd say Q, I feel like I really, I don't know what it was, but the repel, like very early on, I really feel like I pissed Q off. And I don't know why.
He was just like out to get me.

Speaker 1 And he's the one who I felt like I wanted to prove it to the whole time. And I'll never forget the chains, kind of like Billy with you with the chains.

Speaker 1 Q came up next to me and he walked the entire like mountain side by side with me, just like saying, don't quit. You can do this.

Speaker 1 And it was his voice that I listened, like I replayed over and over the entire interrogation because I was just like, we're going to get through it and make it.

Speaker 1 And then when we jumped up on the stage, whatever, he was the first one to like actually hug me. And I was like, oh, God.

Speaker 1 Are you sure? I ended up telling him at the end, I was like, you scared me the most. And he was like, me? I was like, yeah, you're intense.

Speaker 1 Andrew?

Speaker 2 I think Foxy, I wanted his approval most just because I feel like he's a guy I want to hang out with. So I was like, I just want to be good enough to be in your circle.

Speaker 2 But him and Billy, I think they would make cheeky comments out on the course. And I feel like, I don't know, yeah, I would want to spend more time with them.

Speaker 2 It's been fun to like message them after still. And it's like, they're all like so well accomplished.
You dig into their backstory and you're like, oh my gosh, these are the real deal, dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's been fun getting to know them after the course and the human side of who they are and their story.

Speaker 1 You came to our wedding and he was like the most loved person there.

Speaker 2 With your wedding?

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's like dancing with everybody on the dance floor.
Like, it's like, who is this guy? Completely

Speaker 1 invitations to his room.

Speaker 2 He gave a little speech.

Speaker 1 You gave a speech?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, we had like a welcome party, and then there was like an open mic where people could come and say nice things. And you came up.

Speaker 1 I love you. He's so great.
He's awesome. Cody, who is it for you? So I thought Rudy Reyes had the most charisma for

Speaker 1 connection. Rudy just felt warm to me almost the entire time.
So you have this place where you just want to please these guys. But Billy comes up to me in the very beginning.

Speaker 1 I've seen most of three seasons. And he puts my head in the water, forces my head in the water when we're still in our civilian clothes.
And I giggled in the water and choked because I giggled because

Speaker 1 Billy pushing my head in the water was like Eddie Van Halen stringing my guitar for me.

Speaker 2 It was just because you're such a fan of the show.

Speaker 1 I wanted, here's the thing,

Speaker 1 some of my motivation, my whole life was pleasing my coach

Speaker 1 because I was an athlete as a child. And I wanted to have a beer with Billy really bad.
And I wanted Rudy's approval.

Speaker 1 So it was a kind of, it's a weird thing being in that place because it's so like a love bipolar. It's so, it's so bizarre because it's, you know, Q comes up to me and says, good job, number four.

Speaker 1 And I say, thank you, sir. He says,

Speaker 1 you know, it's just so,

Speaker 1 the entire experience is surreal out of your mind.

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Speaker 1 Getting into the interrogations a little bit, Andrew, I thought you would crush this. You can talk to a brick wall and you got in there and you froze.
We were like, Andrew, what is this?

Speaker 1 What happened? You like glitched.

Speaker 2 I can't live in this web of lies. I was just not made for that environment.
Oh my gosh. So it's like, they have you make this alibi story.
And then I also didn't understand.

Speaker 2 I just couldn't make sense of it. They were like, okay, the other team doesn't exist.
Like, act like they're not even here. So then they're like,

Speaker 2 are you married? Yes. Is your wife here?

Speaker 1 I'm like trying to go back.

Speaker 2 I just,

Speaker 1 my angle is

Speaker 1 the U.S.

Speaker 2 Honestly, what they did show, it was funny because in some ways, Fox will make me look better, or maybe all of us look better in certain ways, but maybe worse than others.

Speaker 2 But I didn't even give them my real name the first time. They're like, what's your name? I was like, I was like,

Speaker 1 Dean.

Speaker 2 I just wasn't good at it. Yeah, I wasn't good at it.

Speaker 1 Drew just can't lie. He's done that.
Sean, did you going into that, were you like, this is, this is where like he's not going to do well?

Speaker 1 I, I mean, neither of us have ever been in that position before, so I didn't know.

Speaker 1 But even when he got taken off the show and they like pull us back out into the square, I didn't believe it. I thought they were just trying to mess with me.

Speaker 1 They're like, do you notice your husband's gone? I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah.
I know, I'm sure he's in the stress positions, whatever.

Speaker 1 But when I left after the show and I got to see like the psychiatrist and stuff, and the psychiatrist was literally giggling. And he said, I have never seen someone so bad at lying.

Speaker 1 And it was, it was honestly just the most endearing and beautiful thing. Like you got off a show because you're so bad at lying.
Like you're just a good guy.

Speaker 1 Like you're literally just such a great human and to see you glitch on the show even like dunking us like your moral character was at such in such a painful place it's just it was just sweet i'm like oh babe

Speaker 1 so guys me and sean were like not screaming underwater no

Speaker 1 you guys weren't screaming okay like i don't know what those sound effects were we need someone quick to scream into a mic so we can place it over like this is great yeah like me and Sean were like, at that point, no emotion.

Speaker 1 No. Life was sucked out of us.
Like, was this crazy or ridiculous? It was like, that's not us.

Speaker 2 This show's revealing. It's interesting.
Like, you know, you see yourself in these situations that you never think you'd be in.

Speaker 2 And I feel like one thing that was revealed to me is, yeah, maybe I'm not the brightest in the bunch. I figure I'm watching myself lying.
I'm like, huh.

Speaker 1 Maybe that take my, I'll do an IQ test.

Speaker 2 It's more obviously, it's an incredible stretch. I mean, you guys, again, literally being tortured.

Speaker 2 I feel like I need need to emphasize that because, you know, we're a culture that just kind of exaggerates things.

Speaker 2 But like, it's the 10th day of no sleep, peer exhaustion, emotional, like stress testing. And you could see how delirious all of you guys were at that stage.

Speaker 2 So I think you're being a little hard on yourself.

Speaker 1 In Andrew's defense, there's this thing that happens with the interrogation where we've been told to create a lie and then they bring the truth back to us.

Speaker 1 I mean, they've started reading off of tabloids and telling me my life.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, you guys already know everything. So I just went silent because I knew my disposition is a little chatty.
I was going to give something up if I talked.

Speaker 2 So I just quit talking.

Speaker 1 I didn't know what else to do.

Speaker 1 So in your defense,

Speaker 1 y'all were like, guys, we're travel influencers. And then Cody, you're like, I'm a podcaster.
Like,

Speaker 1 I think he was like only thinking about Bri in that moment because he like asked Brie when she died.

Speaker 1 So then I was like, well, there you go.

Speaker 1 No, well, that was part of our cover.

Speaker 1 We're podcasters. What, the podcasts in the wild or something like that? Influencers in the wild.
Influences in the wild, okay. So I'm like, I'm a podcaster.

Speaker 1 I'm here to check the place out.

Speaker 1 It's pretty much the same thing.

Speaker 2 Another thing about what I enjoy about this show is, and the DSs talk about this, but they, I don't know how they're educated, but they clearly understand psychology and reading people.

Speaker 2 And as soldiers, obviously it's very important for them to adapt. And then

Speaker 2 your guys kind of one-on-ones with all these DSs, they all had some very interesting feedback.

Speaker 2 Like, Andrew, I think yours is really interesting, also in a very endearing way, but like the criticism of, in a way that they felt like Sean.

Speaker 2 was almost holding you back because you're obviously your emotional and mental energy was not only like getting you through it, but like this kind of this protector energy you have with your wife.

Speaker 2 I'm just curious, like, what did you think about that, watching that back and having them, you know, say that about you? And how did you interpret that feedback?

Speaker 2 I feel like it's easy when you get feedback to think, oh, that's not true. And, and,

Speaker 2 and then the more I've thought about it, I'm like, oh, that's, that's fascinating. But in some ways, I feel like I've embraced it where it's like, I would, that's what I want.

Speaker 2 I want to have a teammate, you know? What's the saying? If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
It's like, yeah, I'll go, I'll like slow myself down gladly.

Speaker 2 If the team wins, then I win. And that's, that's how I feel.
So I, yeah, I, I've thought about it often, not just what was said in that mirror room, but also just like the off-camera conversations.

Speaker 2 They do have some really fascinating insight. Brianna, when you told me you were going on, when you sent me the message and asked me what I thought about it, I

Speaker 2 thought you're going to go very far. I mean, obviously, you're famously known for turning down a large sum of money from an ex-boyfriend.

Speaker 2 And for reasons, like, you didn't want to just, you know, have them control you, essentially.

Speaker 2 I just don't feel like people appreciate the level of resiliency or just like there's a, there's a determination and a belief in yourself to be able to turn down. that type of money.

Speaker 2 You're obviously independently successful, but every one of you have to bet on yourself, right?

Speaker 2 Like to be in this, the in this position to survive this course, you really have to have this sheer belief in yourself.

Speaker 2 And do you see that? And do you see what I see in you? And like, where do you think that comes from?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. I think these people sitting here have helped me see that about myself for sure.

Speaker 1 I self-doubt myself a lot, but I also know like my worth. And I come from an amazing family and I don't come from much.

Speaker 1 So it's, I've always bet on myself and I have created such an amazing life for myself all on my own. So, I mean, with turning that money down, that was like, that was just never a question.

Speaker 1 Like, it's always just, I've got myself, that's all I need.

Speaker 1 And the show, I think, really just like exaggerated that for me and showed me, damn, okay, they're all you really can do all. You can do everything and you can, you know, do it like.

Speaker 1 You can be a badass, but also be vulnerable and like cry a lot on the show and be honest and not try to like fake this tough persona.

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, this show really taught me a lot about myself and also all of them, like with the positive affirmations that they give me. Cause I do,

Speaker 1 like when we talk about the show together, even when we're at dinner, I'm like, I can't even watch it. Like, I feel like I did so bad.
And they just remind me that I didn't.

Speaker 1 So they helped me a lot to realize that, yeah, I did, I did well.

Speaker 2 So I think what's great about the show

Speaker 2 that really is about

Speaker 2 to your point,

Speaker 2 even on the challenges, you can fail all the challenges.

Speaker 2 It's not about how you look doing it. It is about getting back up.
It is about surviving it.

Speaker 2 And it really is a great metaphor for life in the sense that, like, we don't know what life's going to bring us. We don't know what challenges are going to come our way.
But how do we respond?

Speaker 2 How do we get back up? How do we keep going? It's really just about not quitting. And I think there are a lot of quitters in this world.
There's a lot of people who just give up on themselves.

Speaker 2 And obviously, the five of you are five people who clearly don't quit easily. Is that something you guys had to find in yourself throughout life?

Speaker 2 Or is that something that's always been a part of who you are? Nick's preaching today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, your questions are amazing. I'm hyped up.

Speaker 1 Just doing his thing.

Speaker 1 I just want to add to you, because I said this and I said it, you have to like internalize this to know this, but I told Brie this, as a mom to a daughter, it brought me to tears on the show hearing your story and like watching it and like watching it back.

Speaker 1 But I've said this, we cannot always protect our kids and our daughters are going to have heartbreak and they're going to have disappointment and they're going to fall down.

Speaker 1 And I just just hope that our daughters have like resiliency you do. Cause like you doubted yourself through the whole show, but you kept getting back up.

Speaker 1 Not to say, like, go off on a tangent, but it was amazing. I love you.
Thank you. Amazing.

Speaker 2 It was really cool. This is another thing I wish they showed.

Speaker 2 Like these two girls specifically, I feel like started off and there was like, Gia, multiple times you said, I can't do this. I'm done.
I'm out. And then like

Speaker 2 evolution and the amount that I think you saw that you were capable of doing was so cool.

Speaker 2 It was like so much fun that made like, that was one of the highlights of the show for me was just to see, oh, dang, these people are finally like seeing themselves as other people see them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think the cool, like what you were saying, the cool thing about the show was like, maybe I didn't come in at my strongest, but as the days went on, I think like we got, we got stronger.

Speaker 1 Like I got stronger as each day went on. Cause I, I, I mean, I was in Italy the month before.
Like I was just not prepared for this at all.

Speaker 1 I felt like some of the DS, you know, once your mom left, they kind of were like, she was holding you back. Like now you can really go far.
Did you feel that way also or not?

Speaker 1 In the moment, obviously, no. Your mom leaving, it was abrupt.
Oh, totally. She did not give me any warning.
And they're like, now fire.

Speaker 1 No, literally. And when she left, we actually were in a car alone together, which you know never happens.

Speaker 1 And we had a full we had everyone was there basically still so we had we were in a car alone she's just like talking but we talked about this in general she's like you know when i leave do you want me to wait for you here in morocco or should i go home and i'm like no just go home like what are you gonna do here just like if you tap out go home whatever i didn't think she was gonna leave right right there i mean like this was just like hypothetical like we were talking about this the past two nights like okay, when you leave, love you.

Speaker 1 I'll see you home. But yeah, no, and when she left, I was like, that's why like I started crying.
Like, I had no idea. I was so shocked.
It was a brop. I mean, but it was also like.

Speaker 1 Everyone's jaws, I think, were on the ground. They were like, what?

Speaker 1 But it was also valid, you know, like as a mother to a daughter, Sean, I'm sure you can like test this too. Like, I don't want.
I don't need to see my daughter fighting. No.

Speaker 1 And it was funny because as she left, she told Fox, she's like, you guys fucked up. And she was like, and they were like, why, why, why?

Speaker 1 What my mom said to Fox, you should have made my daughter fight first, then me. That's how they played it on special forces, but that's not actually how it happened.

Speaker 1 My mom's number was called first to fight.

Speaker 1 Then that's when she left because she then was like, okay, you're going to fight after me now. And I don't want to see that.

Speaker 1 But like, if I fought first, my mom probably would have jumped in and it probably would have been like even better TV or like, who knows?

Speaker 1 So like she said that to them as she left and they were like, oh, you're right. Like shit.

Speaker 2 We had a chance to interview your mom not too long ago and it was a great experience.

Speaker 2 Obviously, she's a legend in the reality TV community, but that was shortly after I had found out that you had won. And again, like obviously being a part of this.

Speaker 1 Did she tell you?

Speaker 2 Secretly? No, no, she didn't.

Speaker 1 Oh, because she's been doing this like late, like recently, you know, she'll like see someone someone and be like, do you want to know a secret? But don't tell anyone. And I'm like, you can't do that.

Speaker 1 I mean, I can see why she wants to tell everybody.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, yeah, being a part of this fraternity, this was, I always tell people, like, of all the things I've done on TV, this is the only thing like I'm proud of behind

Speaker 2 other stuff. It's cool to have done.
And, you know, it's fascinating. And we have stories to tell.
But, you know, your family obviously has. been on TV over the years.

Speaker 2 They've been wrapped up in controversy. All while people love you.

Speaker 2 But I also just, it was just really cool to see, you know, I think your mom should be really proud, obviously, of what you accomplished.

Speaker 2 And I think she gets a lot of, I think she should get a lot of credit because, you know, for whatever people may or may not think about your family, again, like, I just don't, I don't think people appreciate just how difficult this whole course is and the level of character it requires to want to challenge yourself and push yourself through that.

Speaker 1 I think you do.

Speaker 2 And so it was just very cool to see, you know, you represent your family the the way you did.

Speaker 1 No, thank you. And I also think selfishly though, too, I was like proud to finish it for myself, like to do it alone and not.

Speaker 1 And I said this even in one of my interviews on Special Forces, not that I wouldn't have loved to finish this, of course, with my mother as well, because that would have been iconic, but I was happy to just like do the, you felt so proud after you

Speaker 2 wonder what that's like.

Speaker 1 You did it.

Speaker 2 I just had a follow-up question to that do you do you think you have some street cred with your cast on next gen

Speaker 1 and who if anyone in your cast do you think would have a chance at completing this course i think ariana ariana bierman i think she's got like the mental strength and physical she works out a lot to do it She's been through a lot too, kind of like me growing up on reality TV and just family stuff.

Speaker 1 So well, coincidentally enough, we had your mom on, what was it, after episode one aired, I think? Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 You know, she kind of talked about like the conversations that you and her had about bringing your family back together.

Speaker 1 And Nick was, you know, very pushing her to want to do that and that kind of things.

Speaker 1 And then to see, obviously, BravoCon, your uncle and your mom, like come back together, do hug, be, you know, they said they met up. Like, what does that just mean to you and your family?

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, it's awesome. I think anyone that was rooting for anything differently, there's something wrong with you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they only have each other. So it makes me really happy to see them back together.
And it was such a fun weekend. We went to one of his comedy shows.
Like we had a really good time. And

Speaker 1 it's, it's just nice. I'm excited to like build the relationships again and just build that trust.
And I'm so happy, you know, to have them back in my life too.

Speaker 1 So he was like my, he was my best friend growing up. So it's cool just to see the reconciliation and like see my mom have her brother back, Brianna.

Speaker 2 Uh, you well, first of all, all your letters, it's always like an emotional moment of the show, and yeah, it's just like I got teared up watching you guys have that bond. It was really

Speaker 2 the way you guys are looking at each other. I mean, it really, I really admire you guys both and you're great,

Speaker 2 great role models for like what a couple should be and how you guys are teaming up.

Speaker 1 I was like, they're so in love, it was great, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm on the plane flying here, just like kind of like having a tear down my eye.

Speaker 2 But Verena, you wrote your letter to your dad. Yes.

Speaker 2 And I obviously have a young daughter. We hear so many conversations in the zeitgeist of pop culture or people talking about, you know, parent-child relationships.

Speaker 2 And we hear a lot of things about like

Speaker 2 daddy issues, especially when it comes from women. My wife has been open about her relationship with her father and their, you know.
prickly relationship.

Speaker 2 But obviously, you know, it was just great to hear from someone like you who obviously has an opposite point of view and the relationship you have with your dad.

Speaker 2 And I would just love to have you talk a little bit about your relationship with your father and what he's taught you and just elaborate a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 Just because I don't think we hear enough of positive stories about great fathers today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I will say, because my mom will kill me. I did write her a letter too.
They just didn't put it in the show.

Speaker 1 It was a beautiful letter. Okay, it was.
Yes, I have great relationships with both of my parents.

Speaker 1 But my dad, it is so important, I think, for women to just have great relationships with their dad because you base so many of your relationships going forward with men off of the relationship with your dad.

Speaker 1 You chase things that you see in your father. And I think for young girls, your first, like the love of your life is your dad.
Your first best friend is your dad. He was my hero.

Speaker 1 And growing up, I mean, my dad just always encouraged me. to be whatever I wanted to be, whoever I wanted to be.
I was his fourth daughter, so he did raise me as a little bit of like a boy.

Speaker 1 He really wanted a son. I wore boxers until I was like eight.
I was confused.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 he,

Speaker 1 yeah, like he put me in football, but he was always just so supportive of anything I wanted to do, even if I was bad at it. And he was always so open to hearing how I felt about the world, about guys.

Speaker 1 He created a relationship, which was an open door where I didn't feel scared to tell him anything or scared to be honest with him about anything.

Speaker 1 And I think that surely changed my life for like forever. I mean, it made me into who I am.
So yeah, my relationship with him is so important. And his voice was in the back of my head the whole time.

Speaker 1 I'm thinking of him like being at my basketball practices being like, go B, like he would scream B from the stand.

Speaker 1 So whenever I was in those dark moments or in interrogation, I'm hearing my dad's voice, which was awesome. So.
And how did he create that open relationship?

Speaker 1 Because I think that's something, obviously, we all want for our kids to be able to tell us things and not hide things.

Speaker 1 Like, what, do do you remember specifically, like how he made it a safe space to come to? Yeah, I mean, I think just growing up, he was

Speaker 1 always,

Speaker 1 he didn't really look at our relationship as a one-sided thing. Where when I would open up to him, he would open up to me.
And I think at a young age, it made me realize that.

Speaker 1 You know, when we look at our parents, sometimes we glamorize them and we don't realize that they're also people.

Speaker 1 So from a young age, I realized that, you know, our parents are doing life for the first time too. They make mistakes.

Speaker 1 He was always honest and open about things he struggled with with me and taught me to also be honest about the things that I struggle with, not to be ashamed of them.

Speaker 1 I think it was, you know, creating that relationship where it's like, hey, I'm your dad, but I'm also human and you're going to experience the shit that I experienced one day.

Speaker 1 I'm not this like superhero. I'm your friend.
I'm your mentor. And at the end of the day, like, I'm going to like kick your ass if I have to.

Speaker 1 But, you know, I think it's that like open relationship where they're honest about how they feel as well who are you most proud to tell that you went as far as you did oh my dad for sure yeah my dad for sure he doesn't really know how to work a phone or anything so like he he doesn't this show is major for him like he doesn't even know what i do in my in my life he's like you're going on this cool show

Speaker 1 what is a podcast i'm like

Speaker 1 he's never listened to my podcast before but this show the first person watching it so yeah he's my biggest supporter sean and andrew you there was like a clip after the letters where you were like i just want to cuddle you was that like we there was like also a clip of jesse and eric where she was like straddling him and we were like whoa that's crazy like that was all the time when they were together she was straddling i respect it you know they were lost and happy for each other yeah but did you were y'all kind of like we'll get yelled at if we like

Speaker 1 Like how did you approach like showing each other affection throughout this process?

Speaker 1 We kind of just went into it i think it's the the athlete mentality behind both of us is like we we understood the professional side and whether that was like warranted or not that's just kind of like how we acted so we went into it kind of putting our professional faces on and saying we're gonna follow the rules we're individuals we're recruits we're you know not gonna show too much pda because it was also you know you had randall cobb just desperately missing his wife and um cody and like everybody missed something from home.

Speaker 1 So we knew that we had a luxury there that a lot of people didn't. And we didn't want to rub that in people's faces.

Speaker 1 But I do after that was like when we wrote the letters, it kind of like brought my guard down. And I was like, I just want to cuddle.
I don't want to be an army man no more.

Speaker 1 I want to be a no more.

Speaker 2 It was very, it was very sweet. Cody, obviously you have a very fascinating story that I think a lot of people are fascinated with.

Speaker 2 And again, like the show brings out so many like cool metaphors about life, but like, and one of those is that like it's kind of never too late to like change course, right or wrong, you know, work on yourself, acknowledge a mistake.

Speaker 2 The DSs obviously came down at you pretty hard towards the end in your interrogation when they talked about your relationship with your children, all 18 of them.

Speaker 2 I'm curious, like since Special Forces has ended, Has anything changed with the relationship with your kids?

Speaker 2 And have you used this kind of reflection and those conversations with the DSs to kind of like think about how you might approach things differently with your children?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 before I got divorced, before three divorces, one after another, I had what I thought was a great relationship with all of my children.

Speaker 1 So I feel like they were kind of victims of the divorce experience. And of course, they were closer to their mothers.

Speaker 1 So as they go on and their mothers are bitter, and we live in a business and we're in a business, we're really throwing hand grenades is what starts happening when you break up.

Speaker 1 So I was distant from some of my children, but not from all of them.

Speaker 1 I have a very close relationship with three of my daughters and a working relationship with four others and then a relationship I'm working on with others.

Speaker 1 And so it's, I was already in that space where I was going through a process of apologying to my ex-wives. for my part in the breakup.
And the same was going with off

Speaker 1 with you know just trying to be in touch with my children and try and work that stuff out so it was a hard experience with the DS because from a military perspective I felt like if you're partly responsible then you're wholly responsible so I felt like I owned way more than should have belonged there but in reality whether fair or unfair I'm I've always been working on the relationship with my children

Speaker 1 one way or another.

Speaker 1 Being on special forces hasn't, per se, improved that relationship. Coming home from special forces, special forces was so humiliating that when I came home, I felt humble, very, very humble.

Speaker 1 And so I was,

Speaker 1 you know, that sweetness in life. I'm much more engaging with my children.
I'm reaching out to my children more often, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't always come from an experience like this of a breakup in a family. And it wasn't just a divorce.
It was a breakup of a family. It was the whole family breaks up.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 working those things out is something that's been on my mind before and after special forces. Special forces just gave me an element of humility.

Speaker 1 I just came home going, just so humbled by the experience.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there was a line there where you said, you kind of, you wanted to push back, but then you were like, you know what? I'm the common denominator, which I thought was very honest of you.

Speaker 2 And I appreciated you saying that. But like,

Speaker 2 understand that like there's a lot of people in this family and there's a lot of personalities and everyone played a role in the obviously you said the breakup of the family but as kind of the the patriarch the leader of the family especially like in your culture I'm curious what specifically have you reflected on you know maybe since special forces or just in general about like things that you've wanted to work on as a father to make those connections with your children that aren't still close better.

Speaker 1 Well, the first thing I thought I needed to do was sort of get some healing with their mothers, the ex-wives, because I figured if there was some healing there, then the children feel like they didn't have to be so loyal to their mother that they could actually have a relationship with me.

Speaker 1 So I just think they were victims of the divorce in that sense. So

Speaker 1 the common denominator was me. I mean, I've had to really do a lot of soul reflection specifically to figure out, you know, sort of why did this all go this way? You know, like what happened?

Speaker 1 And it is nuanced, but yeah, I'm the common denominator. And it was a funny experience to see myself on the show because I am very quirky and I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 You know, so I see myself on the first time you realize.

Speaker 1 Well, no, I'm a different person on a different show

Speaker 1 based on how they edit and how it goes. But I was a very, you know, I saw myself for 16 years now on television.

Speaker 1 And I go to special forces and I see somebody very different than who I was on Sister Wives. And

Speaker 1 that was an interesting experience.

Speaker 2 Does three divorces at once sound? Is that as expensive as it sounds in real life?

Speaker 1 It's been an expense of emotions

Speaker 1 in a way that is inconceivable, I think. And no, it wasn't.
I mean, there was no legal marriage. It was only expensive in like paying for kids.

Speaker 2 You say there's no legal marriage?

Speaker 1 My wife is the one who has the legal marriage and so they weren't a legal marriage we were together for 25 years in a spiritual marriage when they since went and said like one wife remarried two other wives went and and got uh the divorce through the church um but there was no legal marriage so um and they all made more money than me so there was no alimony to be paid

Speaker 1 You kind of said in your interrogation that you were offended by your children.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like your kids owe you anything?

Speaker 1 You know, this isn't a venue because it is so nuanced. This isn't a venue where I'd prefer to talk about that.
It's that

Speaker 1 I believe that I need to make or heal things with my children. And I believed that healing things with their mothers first would would work better.

Speaker 1 But I've been in touch with them where I reach out to them often.

Speaker 1 Those who are not reaching back, you know, the responsibility for a relationship is on to people, especially when you're adults. Almost all of my children were adults when the divorces happened.

Speaker 1 So they are already grown out of the house into their own families.

Speaker 2 You mentioned on the show, I think Andrew asked a very nuanced question when he asked you, like, what are the pros and what are the cons of your lifestyle, which I thought was a great question by Andrew.

Speaker 2 And I think you said that, like,

Speaker 2 I hope I'm quoting you correctly, but you were like, I wouldn't do it again. I wouldn't do what I did.
I'm assuming you were speaking more about the polygamous lifestyle.

Speaker 2 Could you, and I know it's nuanced and I want to respect obviously your privacy, but also just like reality TV is famously challenging for relationships. There's a lot of relationships.

Speaker 2 I'm sure Gia has had a front row seat with just friends and colleagues and just like that universe is drama, right?

Speaker 2 You're getting people to open up and most people in relationships, you want to, like Nellie and I, we're in public figures, but we talk a lot about protecting each other, protecting our relationship, and that matters most.

Speaker 2 It's very difficult for people who are on TV where the job is to be open. Do you think the lifestyle or you being on a TV show impacted the marriages that didn't work out the most?

Speaker 1 Easily would be both.

Speaker 1 I mean, we were a family that was working hard to be together. Then certain things happen.
People change.

Speaker 1 Your bodies change, your thought processes change, your children grow up and they leave the house, and that leaves you in a state of wondering what is going on, what is the relationship that you have with your spouse after your children have left a home.

Speaker 1 These are all things that are very nuanced. But the thing about reality TV that is so dangerous for loving families is they're looking for the rub, the grind, the tension.
They're looking for that.

Speaker 1 And if you play into that, you can be with your best friend and start looking critical. You can be with your wife and look critical or be criticized.

Speaker 1 And so it's, it's, you have to be really well grounded. And, you know, 16 years into it,

Speaker 1 I'm just trying to still find my way in this world because

Speaker 1 it's definitely a world of he said, she said.

Speaker 1 And it's hard to feel accountable. Like I can look at my hands and go, okay, here are the 10 things I'm accountable for.
But that one you're trying to put on me isn't mine to own.

Speaker 1 And you kind of get in this place where you have to be super grounded and I'm not.

Speaker 1 You guys all saw me lose my head flapping like a chicken. So

Speaker 1 it's a challenge to be in reality TV.

Speaker 1 I like to retire my wife, Robin, from television so they can't pit us against each other now. How's that going?

Speaker 1 We're solid. Okay.
Yeah. If you guys knew, I mean, I probably talked about her all the time.

Speaker 1 So anybody that was hanging out with me is like, I like to talk about my wife, who is shy, doesn't want me talking about her, but, you know, favorite person in the world.

Speaker 2 On the show, the DSs towards the end made some comments about your feelings towards women in general. And obviously, that's a, you know, a strong statement by the DSs.

Speaker 2 And I was just curious, like, what you thought about that.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like there's, you know, being a group of men who are good at reading people, do you think there's truth to what they said or or not?

Speaker 1 Well, I've gone through three divorces, so I may have some real issues. Okay.
Okay. But

Speaker 1 I don't believe I had the issues before the divorces because I always preferred the company of women to men. In the men's world, you don't have to behave completely like a gentleman.

Speaker 1 But I used to be very good about constantly talking about what was appropriate around women because I was always around women and I preferred their company.

Speaker 1 I think something just tweaked me a little bit. I mean, like, you can't come out of three divorces and not struggle a little bit with some kind of mental illness, I think.
Fair enough.

Speaker 1 Try it. I mean, like, in three years, do I'll take your word for it.
And then be in public. So you're constantly hearing their criticism.
It was, it was really hard.

Speaker 1 So when I go in front of the DS and they're saying, we want,

Speaker 1 this is yours to own. And I'm like going, I guess maybe I should just own it because the criticism's coming and it's been here.

Speaker 1 And um, and I just frankly, I don't think it's a sexist thing in any way. I think it's simply that my experience in special forces was I was being told by the DS to do something.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do it as to the best of my ability, whether that is good or not. And I'm going to push through.

Speaker 1 And so if they're yelling at me to move, I'm going to move, even if I'm like dragging a team. And if I think I'm going in the right direction, I'm dragging them in that direction.

Speaker 1 And sometimes it was the wrong direction. Yeah.

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Speaker 1 And welcome back to the Vilefiles Special Forces Reunion.

Speaker 2 I love to, you know, again, speaking to the point that we don't get to see a lot of things, obviously in the finale episode, that's like a 12-hour, the DS has mentioned how it's a 12-hour interrogation.

Speaker 2 Once Andrew was gone, sorry, Andrew, and it was just the four of you,

Speaker 2 when right before like Cody, where you got exited, could you guys just like walk us through the behind the scenes of that whole situation where like it seemed like you three women were working out?

Speaker 2 It seemed like the DSs were waiting on you to say something.

Speaker 2 Can you guys walk us through like what was going on? Cause I feel like watching it, we were all just like a little confused by some of the finer points of what was happening.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think like.

Speaker 1 That whole scene was set because when we got our briefing,

Speaker 1 we decided it would be better if we just knew each other, we pretend we didn't know Cody. So I thought like the best thing for me to say was, oh, Cody's just like a creep because he's an older guy.

Speaker 1 Like that's an easy out.

Speaker 1 Bad hair. Yeah, like he's an older guy.
I just talked to her. I don't really know who he is, but like we're on the same retreat thing.

Speaker 1 So that kind of pushed this narrative where I think they wanted to turn us three against Cody. Basically.

Speaker 1 The way that like I felt felt was going, or like what I felt was going on, it was like every hour we would go back they put the bag over our heads they put the headphones on put you in stress positions for another hour and they would pull us back out it was always us three and Cody

Speaker 1 and what I remember happening was we all had these alibis and stories and kind of like Cody alluded to when they started asking Cody questions to like explain his alibi you just went silent which like you explained you were afraid of like giving up information that wasn't good

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 they just, we kept going through these motions.

Speaker 1 They would bring us out, they would put all three of us through a workout, a beasting, they would lock us in a mud pit, they would pour water over our heads.

Speaker 1 They just kept doing it until Cody would speak. And I think playing the game, not understanding how the game worked, truly any of us,

Speaker 1 you did, you did a great job of staying very silent.

Speaker 1 But they didn't ask me a question. It was like, and they're, they're going, hey, we're going to, we're going to beast your ladies until you talk.
And I'm like,

Speaker 1 did it ever like no, it never occurred to me? No, it never occurred to me that there was. They never had, I don't remember them asking me a question.

Speaker 1 And here's the problem: the premise of that experience was built on deception. And when I sit down with the big guy,

Speaker 1 Lurch, the guy, you know, I don't know what to call him.

Speaker 2 He was a big guy.

Speaker 2 I wasn't ever talking about like.

Speaker 1 Interrogator, interrogator.

Speaker 1 He is sitting there and he knows my life story, essentially, from tablets.

Speaker 1 And I realized there that I had failed because he was giving me breadcrumbs to buy off the situation. But none of this makes the edit.

Speaker 1 And because he knew everything about me, he's taken a selfie with me. My wife watches your show, is what he says to me.
And it's just this big setup.

Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, I'm not supposed to lean anybody home. One of the rules.
Don't tell them about home. Don't lead them home.
And don't lead them to the special forces.

Speaker 1 Don't tell them what we're doing here. So these two rules, well, he already knew everything about me.
So I was like, I can't say a word. I think it was also, though, Cody, they were trying to like.

Speaker 1 give you an out and give you a way to like maybe redeem yourself and look better. So like as we were like, maybe like going through our hell of like working out, squatting, holding the bags.

Speaker 1 No, I'm having to watch. Yes, like it should have been,

Speaker 1 oh, girls, give me your, give me your sandbags, or I don't know. I don't know what you could have done.
I didn't know what they wanted.

Speaker 1 That was like, I don't know what you could have done, but they were like in the episode, how they were kind of portraying the finale as like, they wanted you to do something to like make our pain stop.

Speaker 1 And were you just scared that so you didn't do anything? I was literally in a fall going, what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 1 And the only thing I could think to do was stay silent because I don't want to reveal them and I don't want to reveal me. So, how long were they being like tortured for while you were watching?

Speaker 1 I don't remember.

Speaker 1 I mean, at first it was we were being tortured today.

Speaker 1 Like, they showed a glimpse of it. Like, we also, like, because like when you saw Bree come back out, do you guys get zip-tied out in the Jesus position?

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 oh, that was me and Cody. We got zip-tied, like, we were like nailed across the corner.

Speaker 1 Yeah, crucified.

Speaker 1 After they poured the water on us after they poured the poop water, they put our blindfolds back on and laid us out.

Speaker 1 And at first, I remember being glad it was sunny because the breeze evaporative cooling, I got I started to chill. Yeah, and then they poured water on our bags over our head.
No, that was crazy.

Speaker 1 Well, like, we were like

Speaker 1 waterboardy. When we were like, our like the last challenge, when like we had to like lay down in that mud pit, like we were, when we were all out there with Cody, we had a roll in that mud, like,

Speaker 1 a roll in the sand

Speaker 1 and over and over again. It was water, mud, sand.
So we looked like, like a, like a, like a cookie, like a crumbled cookie. Like we like.

Speaker 1 Do you remember when they told me to go through the water? Dunk yourself. And it was by myself.
It was because I was so covered in mud, they couldn't see my face.

Speaker 1 So somebody in production was going, we need to be able to see Cody's face. or number four's face.
So I'm dunking myself and coming out of the water. And then what the place is hot and it's dry.

Speaker 1 So evaporative cooling, I was afraid my teeth would start chattering, and that would give them one more thing to harass us about.

Speaker 1 But when we're standing there, they're beating on the ladies, and I'm sitting there. I do not know what to say.
I do not know what to do. They're not asking me a question.

Speaker 1 They're just telling me that they're going to beat them until I do something. And I'm like, what the heck? I was just, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 I literally just was just stonewall as long as we can because we're supposed to be rescued. You're pretty physically good shape for insane

Speaker 2 man of your age.

Speaker 1 Yeah, ages.

Speaker 2 But like, what do you, I mean, honestly, what you were, I mean, yeah, you were competing with NFL players,

Speaker 2 you know, and they're just past their physical prime, maybe, but you're, you know, you're in your what, 57, 58?

Speaker 1 How do you do it? I

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I was like,

Speaker 1 I'm enthusiastic and optimistic.

Speaker 1 And I live at 7,000 feet. So I did train.
You did train? Oh,

Speaker 1 if they'd have called me

Speaker 1 10 weeks before, five weeks before,

Speaker 1 Cody brought a bag of supplements the size of this couch to the shelf. So you're kundaling.
I didn't even

Speaker 1 take the bag with me, though.

Speaker 1 Did you take anything?

Speaker 2 Like, what peptides should I be taking as I get over? I guess

Speaker 1 stuff for

Speaker 1 not, it wasn't ADHD medicine, but I had some stuff that was nootropics. I had a nootropic package and the doctor let me bring it and all it is is vitamins.
And I said, I have ADHD. Can I have this?

Speaker 1 And I hadn't been diagnosed yet. So I'm like, I got ADHD.
Can I keep these nootropic packages? And then I had a caffeine supplement and then I had vitamin D. And

Speaker 1 all vitamins.

Speaker 1 I mean, and then I had something to help me sleep as well because I was like, I'm not going to be able to sleep. And I was mouth guard and tape for my mouth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you did have mouth guards in my mouth

Speaker 1 every night. You had a whole, you had a nighttime routine.
I had a nighttime routine. I was always going to sleep out.
I didn't even give him ideas.

Speaker 1 And then I had to get up to in the, I mean,

Speaker 1 so I got up three times a night to go to the bathroom, too, and only two times because we didn't have enough sleep.

Speaker 2 So did you have, like, I remember for us, they told us we couldn't go to the bathroom by ourselves because soldiers have, who was your

Speaker 1 in the middle of the night, I found a hole in the tent. He would pee in the barracks.
What? In a water bottle. No, no, no, hold on.
No, no.

Speaker 1 We had the dressing room that we only discovered after being there for five days. Oh, right next to Jamaica.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 yeah, listen, I didn't pee on the floor. We also weren't drinking a ton of water, so I can imagine.
No, but you would pee three times a night in the barracks. No, just in the corner of the tent.

Speaker 1 In a plastic,

Speaker 1 either in a bottle or there, there were vent holes, you know, like and lots of dry sand. It'd be dry in five minutes.

Speaker 1 You peed on the floor in the barrel? No, no, no, no, no, no. Come on.
I'm a gentleman. Nothing that I did was going to gross you out as long as you didn't see it.
Oh, right, right.

Speaker 1 She, did you bring chapstick? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Your lips look so moisturized.

Speaker 1 I saw you. She was going to stick them off before this bank.
People look great all the time, too.

Speaker 1 Gee, you did look really good on the show

Speaker 1 like the one time her hair looked bad and dia said fix your hair yes and that was like when we first got there

Speaker 1 um yeah no i was on accutane like during special forces so i was like we're gonna be in morocco like my lips are gonna fall off can i please bring um aquaphor

Speaker 1 and i was allowed so that's why it was so funny like everyone

Speaker 1 constant um tick tock so they're like this is not sweat like why is gia glistening like were you rubbing it like all over here

Speaker 1 let's get that opera for a brand deal

Speaker 1 this was all stuff that supplements everything with stuff I negotiated with production long before we even got there they told me I could bring my own food

Speaker 1 I mean like feels like cheating well no because I didn't they didn't bring his own food very very strict diet you guys knew I went hungry a few times right

Speaker 1 everybody did it's specific to me well let's not waste our time with me giving you the description of it like detail but it's specific It's aggressive. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's aggressive because

Speaker 1 he didn't eat pepper. So like it was like there was still

Speaker 1 any bread.

Speaker 2 It was the most difficult meal that you guys were served because I'm a bit of a persicker.

Speaker 1 We have to pick one. The chicken's fasting sausages.
I never ate dinner. I never ate dinner.
I only ate breakfast and lunch.

Speaker 1 Our worst dinner that we had multiple times towards the end was, it was like blended carrots. It was supposed to be soup, but it was literally just blended carrots and then these sausages

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 were like this big and they were straight white like as white like as white as your shirt that was it i had to gag down yeah the food we would just eat bread we would shove bread we would put jelly and the bread was as hard as a raw was there anyone who the food didn't bother

Speaker 2 You just

Speaker 1 said the jam was great. The jam was the best part.
I could drink that. I thought the oxtail was great.
What's that oxtail? And did we have the beef?

Speaker 1 The beef was awesome.

Speaker 1 The short rib. Yeah.
Short rib.

Speaker 1 We had the fillets.

Speaker 1 It was straight a lobster. My best meal was when we got punished and me and Randall had to eat out of all those bangs food.
It was our punishment. Best food I ever had.
Bambarines. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was like, I want that every night. I had two.
I really liked the hard-boiled eggs and the powdered coffee.

Speaker 2 I would have killed for hard-boiled eggs.

Speaker 1 You guys

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 they served us like the runny, barely cooked, like carton scrambled eggs. I was like, I can't.

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh. No, we had hard-boiled eggs.
We had Randall on

Speaker 1 Tuesday. We got to talk to him and we asked him about the

Speaker 1 snack box that he brought out to everybody.

Speaker 1 We'll have to own that.

Speaker 1 We all have to own that because when he comes out all excited, we should have looked. Someone should be just exploiting.
I should have shot

Speaker 1 chanel and you you knew it you knew it

Speaker 1 yes re-watching i didn't know you guys had this whole debacle in there because they say not like

Speaker 1 like we were literally looking at the cameras thanking the ds after

Speaker 1 remember

Speaker 1 we're taking picture age but in all fairness we really did not see that it said ds room on it we had no we did not see that it was written on there chanel definitely so chanel

Speaker 1 did chanel did but that's what i was mad about when randall brought it out i was like, all right, whatever. We're all eating it.
He'll still for his assumption.

Speaker 1 And Randall did come out and he goes, this is a reward. I mean, we live in a reward world, right? This is a reward for doing so good today.
And we all like to start celebrating.

Speaker 1 And none of us, Chanel only, to my midwife. I none of us

Speaker 1 thought that it said DS room on it. If me or Randall saw that, we would have been like, yeah.

Speaker 2 Do you think you were set up?

Speaker 1 Or do you think, oh, it was definitely set up? We were 100% set up. And then me, Brie, and Randall had to go in their shit tank.
Was it worth it? No, no.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't. We literally all each had a sip of Coke, maybe a bite of a candy.

Speaker 1 Like, it was not worth it.

Speaker 2 Because our stomach, I was so pumped. I was like, Snickers bars, let's go.

Speaker 2 And then you have one bite and your stomach's not in the right condition because you've been eating carrot soup and like whatever they've been feeding you for like five days.

Speaker 2 So you couldn't, you couldn't eat more. Otherwise, you'd get sick.

Speaker 1 How did y'all feel about the tunnels? Terrifying. That was Randall's like hardest part.
Probably one of my hardest is like, I had a panic attack.

Speaker 2 That shot of you where you.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. She didn't show the best part, which was Brie cussing out the DS because she didn't do it.
Yes.

Speaker 1 I don't even remember. You threw your helmet at him.
You did? Yeah. I don't recall this because I was like, she blowed out panic mode.
Like, I, I, you, I don't know if they showed it.

Speaker 1 They really didn't show me freaking out, but I posted behind the scenes clips. I was like trembling.
Ravi, thank God, got got me through that tunnel.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't have probably made it past that episode without him.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I guess there was a moment where I was like, I can't do it if this goddamn helmet is on my head because I was so overstimulated. So I was like, all right,

Speaker 1 but like Rudy also, he really pushed me to do it. They wouldn't let me quit, which I, I was like mad in the moment, but I'm really, really grateful they never let me quit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I was like literally trying to quit. The saddles were awful.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you, that was the first time I saw you like waiver after. Randall made a good point of like, you don't know you're claustrophobic until you're in for sure that situation.
100%.

Speaker 1 Then I saw those tunnels. I was like, no.
I don't know how to check three. Or like, I don't know.
Like, so big.

Speaker 1 The fact that you guys maneuvered, I was freaking out. Like, we were freaking out.
We're so tiny. We actually fit.

Speaker 1 And that's why, like, when Johnny tapped out that challenge, I was like, this is, this is the end for me because now that he just freaked out, this is not good.

Speaker 1 and he got he literally got stuck like he was freaking out so bad and i wish they would have saw him like shown him actually freak out because it's not like he didn't tap out like as easy as they showed he was really trying and then it came to the point where his claustrophobia was like getting so bad that he was pushing up against the board above us to like get out but they had like boulders holding these boards down so it wasn't easy like you couldn't just lift up the board in the buried alive at the end thing who was hyperventilating It played some like

Speaker 1 when they put the board over you in the men? No, I was actually like pretty calm. Oh, they menu.
No, I was, I was actually very happy. I was like, this is, we don't have to be.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh, I'm good. It was in a few hours.
Yeah, I thought I was going to freak out. That's why I was like, eh, this seems a little much for me right now.

Speaker 1 And then when I laid down and they actually put it over my head, I was like, whoa, maybe this course is taking a nap. I was good.
Did you guys fall asleep like that?

Speaker 1 It was like, wow, maybe this course is like doing things because I'm pretty calm right now.

Speaker 2 Sean and Andrew, I'm curious. I mean, again, we spoke about like the letters and just your guys's relationship.
And just open up to any of your cast members, but who kind of watch you guys connect.

Speaker 2 But how do you guys make your relationship work?

Speaker 2 the way that you do. I love the way you guys talk about your relationship as teammates and things like that.

Speaker 2 Nellie and I, we have kind of the same kind of dialogue in our relationship in terms of, I feel lucky to have someone to do life together with, right?

Speaker 2 And it feels great to like have someone who really feels like a teammate. But has that always been a part of your guys' relationship?

Speaker 2 And where do you think, as individuals, that kind of mantra comes from? I don't know. I don't know if we're the right people to give relationship advice, but

Speaker 2 Sean has this. What's the tattoo on your forearm?

Speaker 1 Grace with humility. Grace with humility.

Speaker 2 I feel like she embodies that so well, where she is the most talented, capable, incredible woman I've ever met.

Speaker 2 And she does all that and crushes everything, but does it with such humility that it like leaves room for relationships or room for me to like, you know, support her in whatever way.

Speaker 2 So I think I would say like humility is a big part of what I've learned from Sean.

Speaker 2 And then, I mean, we've been married for almost 10 years and we've had a lot of good things happen, a lot of tough things happen.

Speaker 2 We've been through marriage counseling, pre premarital counseling, done all the stuff, and tried to

Speaker 2 get outside perspective too, because you can get all up in your head.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 which was another benefit of the show, where it's like, you know, you got all these other outside perspectives.

Speaker 2 And I feel like I got a whole new, I got to see Sean in her element on this show where it's like, oh, she's a boss. And I usually, you know, like, like, she was a boss.
So it's just cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, we've got to do a lot of cool things together, but I think the best result of that has been that I've just like learned all of of the beautiful nuances and gotten a higher resolution of all her wonder.

Speaker 1 I would say we're each other's best friends. We've been together since 2012 now, married almost 10 years.

Speaker 1 And we just agreed really early on that we would approach, this is going to sound unromantic, but approach our marriage and our relationship like we did athletics with as much like intentionality in protecting it and taking care of it as we can.

Speaker 1 And we just always know that the stronger teammates we are in life, the better parents we are, the better business people we are, the better friends.

Speaker 1 And we just work, we work really, really hard to protect our marriage at all costs, whether that's, you know, things have felt strange in a phase of life where we're like, maybe we should go see a marriage counselor to see if we can do this better.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, even talking about this show, we

Speaker 1 talked about this show for

Speaker 1 weeks before actually going on it, just saying, is this worth it? Is what is the absolute worst-case scenario thing that could happen? And

Speaker 1 is it worth the risk? And we're just always trying to make sure that we prioritize our marriage.

Speaker 1 What did you think the worst-case scenario would have been? We had a lot of conversations about

Speaker 1 would the show pit us against each other?

Speaker 1 And if they did, how would we approach that? How would we deal with it? So, even going into interrogation,

Speaker 1 it's funny because we were talking about Andrew's mortified by the dunking scene. He's mortified that he decked Brie, so he apologizes every day.
And he mortified that he

Speaker 1 was the nicest human I've ever met.

Speaker 1 I think it was the first time we felt like, oh yeah, this is it. This is the show trying to get in between us.

Speaker 1 And so it didn't even phase us and it wasn't a question because it was like, you can't shake it.

Speaker 1 But yeah, he's just my best friend.

Speaker 2 I love how you guys talk about, you know. the hardships of your marriage, right?

Speaker 2 And I think you said on the show, you guys choose each other every day because I really think that's what it's all about.

Speaker 2 I mean, so many people, like, it's like they fall in love, they decide they're going to be together, and that's supposed to be it, like destiny or fate. And I love the way that you guys talk about it.

Speaker 2 It has to be intentional. You have to wake up and decide to prioritize your partner, you know, because last week was last week and today is today.
So I love that about your guys' relationship.

Speaker 2 And I love the example you guys set.

Speaker 1 So I think it's great. In your questioning, Sean, they called you robotic.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Was that shocking criticism for you? It was shocking that it was criticism at all. I was like, isn't that what you want?

Speaker 1 You're like, wait a second. I had...

Speaker 1 They're like, we want to see your character. And then it's like, but you yell at me if I see anything.
I remember after that interview, walking into the various, I was so confused. I was so confused.

Speaker 1 I do think the farther I get removed from the show and seeing how different the DS approach each person, seeing their wisdom with like. psychology and finding the weak points of people.

Speaker 1 I do feel like that is my weakness. It definitely comes from gymnastics.
I, we were told we weren't allowed to have emotion and I learned that as a child.

Speaker 1 So I do think that's something that they like picked up on. I was very shocked that it was a negative.
And in my mind, I was like, is it a negative for the show or is like actually a negative?

Speaker 1 But it was, it was cool to see and even talk to. I remember when Foxy was walking me back from that interrogation or like that, whatever, he wasn't the one in the room.

Speaker 1 But he was like having a conversation with me. And I was like, wait, do they walk? Like all of them? And

Speaker 1 he was the one who kind of brought it full circle. And he said, why don't you show emotion? I said, well, verbatim, we were taught emotion is weakness like my whole childhood.

Speaker 1 And he said, but is it really? I really think you should, you should think about that because we don't see it as one.

Speaker 1 And to hear that from someone that you respect and like idolize and all these DS are truly like heroes.

Speaker 1 And to see like the elite of the elite say the opposite, I think was really like cathartic and healing for me. But yeah, it was very shocking.

Speaker 1 I was like, I remember now she's going to be like really nice. And I felt like I gave so much advice when we were in those rooms with them.

Speaker 1 So that was like a point where you could like put your guard down and finally listen to them and connect with them on like a real note.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they really knew how to like when to push and when to pull back. It kind of related to you, Brie, when I was down really bad.

Speaker 1 I was hyperthermic. And then when I went in the mirror room and they were doing the bad cop thing.

Speaker 2 And then all of a sudden Billy switched and he was like, you can finish this, you know, like there's only this many days left. And I felt like he believed in me in that moment.

Speaker 2 And honestly, I don't know if I would have finished if it weren't for that moment of Billy telling me to like kind of suck it up and get it together. So it was really fascinating to see how they work.

Speaker 2 Speaking of Billy, Cody, I want to turn to you. I had the opportunity to have Billy at our show and just like have drinks with him and get to know him.
And he had told me this story.

Speaker 2 I think it's in his book, but he talks about his relationship with his children.

Speaker 2 And there was a time where I think his daughter was driving him home from the pub and she just kind of broke down and just kind of talked about the disconnect. in their relationship.

Speaker 2 And maybe it's because I have the benefit of that perspective, having that conversation with Billy. You could really see Billy like challenge you.

Speaker 2 And it really felt like Billy was trying, like was speaking through personal experience.

Speaker 2 You know, obviously, your situation is different than his, but if I could see Billy trying to get through to you to say, you know,

Speaker 2 regardless of the variables and regardless of, you know, I'm sure you have your side. You know, Billy came from this, like, I'm their father.

Speaker 2 At the end of the day, it's my responsibility to make amends. Did you get a chance to get to know Billy's story?

Speaker 2 And do you kind of see that POV of like, whatever's going on with you and your kids, that like, as the dad, it's my job to figure out a way to get through and be there for my kids.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So I've not, I don't know Billy's story or all.
Interesting. And so I'm going into this

Speaker 1 with like, I'm, I'm, life is a process and I'm, I'm, I'm reaching. And if I.
If my hand is slapped when I reach, I wait. And then I'll wait a while and then reach again.

Speaker 1 And then when you know the time comes when you reach and somebody's got to unload. So now you finally reach and it's time to unload.

Speaker 1 And then you start to heal things and then you don't get a call back for a week and then another and then another and then another and you're wondering what's going on in their healing.

Speaker 1 So you become very suspicious. Are my kids talking about me? And then

Speaker 1 are they all making an agreement? There's a big difference though. There's 18.
One is past.

Speaker 1 The others don't all act the same as one or two. So I have a good relationship with many of my children.
And so it's just a process. And we're in the throes.

Speaker 1 We're at the ending of a five-year process of just divorce, making things worse and worse and worse.

Speaker 1 I'm just trying to make them better and better and better. And I'm afraid that I probably can't do that while I'm still on TV because the TV pushes

Speaker 1 a rub.

Speaker 1 And so I reach out, but not on TV. When I do reach out on TV, it's very difficult.
Yeah, it's a different situation.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Did you say you had one child pass away? I did, yes.
A soldier. Oh.
Yeah, but he

Speaker 1 wasn't from combat.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Sorry.
Thank you. If I can give you any advice from someone who has not a great relationship with her father, don't stop reaching out.

Speaker 1 Don't stop showing them that you care and that you want to be a part of their lives. Even if they don't respond, keep calling, keep texting.
I always tell him that I love them. I always reach out.

Speaker 1 Talk to me when you feel like you can.

Speaker 1 And when they, you know, sometimes it's very kind and sometimes it's not. And then you have that experience where I've got five children right here, right next to me, and they're very engaging.

Speaker 1 And so there's a tendency for me to put a lot of effort

Speaker 1 where it's effective. And so

Speaker 1 I reach out, I make the effort. And

Speaker 1 a relationship requires two people. And I'm to a point now, it's like when they got to unload something that's, that feels like it's cruel, you just sit through it.
You just take it.

Speaker 1 I find myself very often. being motivated to apologize for things that I don't feel like I should own.
And so so it's a debate there as well. And you don't want to invalidate that.

Speaker 1 You want to accept it and then think about it. And the process is not easy

Speaker 1 because it's very painful. Okay,

Speaker 1 there are those who are just not causing any pain. And sometimes it just has to do with the relationship itself.
Just to challenge you a little bit,

Speaker 1 it's not your children's job to keep the relationship.

Speaker 1 It is your job, being the father. I'm always the one who has to reach out to my dad.
Oh. And I don't want to be.
No, I'm the one that. No, no, no, I know.

Speaker 1 But because

Speaker 1 you're saying that like a relationship takes two people. No, but I am reaching out.
That is my point, that I am reaching out.

Speaker 2 I want to circle back because this just got me thinking about Bree's letter that she wrote when we were in the barracks. And I...

Speaker 1 I think about,

Speaker 1 I hope you don't mind me sharing some.

Speaker 2 She's a phenomenal writer, by the way.

Speaker 2 I think you have a book coming out soon, so check it out.

Speaker 2 But she shared the story about eating donuts with her dad at like a truck stop. And the fact, like, I'm getting chills thinking about it.

Speaker 2 It makes me cry thinking about like everyone, everyone talks about, everyone talks about quality time, right? That builds relationships.

Speaker 2 But one thing that I just think about hearing that story, just like one of these normal vanilla moments and mundane. It's like the quantity time matters too.

Speaker 2 It's like her just hanging with her dad, her dad inviting her to come hang was, I thought, so powerful. And it's like changed how I think about my relationship with my wife and my kids.

Speaker 2 It's like, I want to just have them like togetherness, you know, is really interesting. The ripple effects I can have.

Speaker 1 So thank you for that.

Speaker 2 I am curious, what's the first thing you guys

Speaker 2 ate leaving the base? There's

Speaker 1 so important. I'm flying

Speaker 1 Emirates on the way back.

Speaker 1 And they feed me caviar and filet mignon on Emirates when I'm flying back. Okay.
Emirates.

Speaker 1 I think it was United Emirates. It's some fancy.
It was a giant airplane.

Speaker 1 Filet Mignon and caviar. And it was, I mean, maybe I was tainted because I had been

Speaker 1 disappointed in our airport food. Yeah, we I kept being like, Gia, there's vapes in here.
And she's like, don't buy one. Don't buy one.
I'm like, oh my gosh, stay strong.

Speaker 1 Later and I got to go to this hotel. It was really close to the final, like, to base.

Speaker 1 It was like this tiny little thing, it looked like Aladdin's house. It was, I heard about that.
It was incredible. We had

Speaker 1 this, it was like a, it was like a bed and breakfast. And this Moroccan woman who lived there and she like ran the place home cooked a feast for Andrew and I.
Yeah, good for you guys.

Speaker 1 Sorry about the three of you guys. It was so good.

Speaker 2 Okay. What do you guys have plans for Thanksgiving?

Speaker 1 Spotchy. Spotchy?

Speaker 1 Christmas Eve, though. Every year.
We'll see you there.

Speaker 1 How do I, Brie? Oh, I'm going back home to Boston. Okay.
Cody. So just open the doors, everybody come.
And

Speaker 1 I bake the turkey. And all my kids and I, we all cook all day long.

Speaker 2 What's your, what's, what's your process for the turkey?

Speaker 1 Baking the turkey. I usually do the bag.
And I'm anti-plastic because I don't, you know, I'm just like worried about health, but I have to do the bag because it keeps the turkey moist. And no pepper.

Speaker 1 And no

Speaker 1 pepper on any of my food. Everybody adds their pepper.
Bree, how is BFS doing? It's good. I was telling you guys before, this is our, we're recording our last episode today of after five years.

Speaker 1 It's coming to an end.

Speaker 2 Are you sad or excited and ready for your next adventure?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm all of the emotions. It's definitely been a crazy journey.
I've grown so much on it. I've grown up on the show.
I started when I was 21. And now I'm 26.

Speaker 1 So everyone has definitely seen me through a lot of different hair colors, a lot of different phases of my life,

Speaker 1 a lot of different, you know, moments. But yeah, we're just kind of done talking about people.

Speaker 1 I think we're kind of going our own direction and we've just grown out of it a little bit. But I love Josh so much and I'm excited to close it like on a good note.
And your next chapter is a book.

Speaker 1 So yeah.

Speaker 1 Like she's actually writing it herself.

Speaker 1 She's a creative artist. Everyone read this.
Well, I've always known that, I mean, you write beautiful poems. It's something that like, I think is is well known about you.

Speaker 1 So, the fact that you can also write a book is not shocking. Thanks, Scott.

Speaker 2 Speaking of beautiful poems, Andrew, I was wondering if you could leave us with a subpar sassy poem

Speaker 1 before you read

Speaker 1 that's hard. Give them a second to Roses Are Red, Ballads, Are Blue.
I don't know. To rhyme a little.

Speaker 2 You guys saw I'm not great thinking on my poem.

Speaker 1 Can we do a piece?

Speaker 2 I'm not picking some other day.

Speaker 1 I need a pen and paper in for two hours.

Speaker 1 We'll let you think on it. Gia, next gen, are have you started filming we're filming right now oh yeah love we were filming at braffagon okay i want brie to come on next gen

Speaker 1 i think i'm too old but no you're not yours at the same age definitely not

Speaker 1 amira's 29 charlie's 31.

Speaker 2 okay true yeah we talked about this last season yes she's not too old i'll be on the next season i would watch it that would be fun yeah okay uh well i just want to thank you guys for taking the time it's been really fun to just recap the season and hear all the behind the and obviously, get to know all of you a little bit more.

Speaker 2 So, appreciate you taking the time, and it's just been a lot of fun. Thank you guys for listening.
Do not forget to check out Special Forces World's Toughest Test now available on Hulu.

Speaker 2 Watch it if you haven't already, it's definitely a good one.

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