E899 Going Deeper with Emmy and Will

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How's your heart, Will?

Physically, it's beating pretty fast. I'm a little nervous to be here but um it's good he looks nervous everybody it's the best he looks nervous well i also threw my neck out on the airplane so if that has a lot to do yeah well if i'm wincing at anything that anyone says it's not what they're saying i think it's uh it might just be physical pain are you that out there.
Nervous. No, not at all.
Okay, why are you nervous? I think it's the physical pain. Are you nervous?

No, not at all. Why are you nervous?

I think it's just been really dramatic, like me

not going to the reunion. And I knew

that this podcast was coming up and I think

that maybe I've put a lot of expectations

that this will be a good way to

really tell my story.

I'm hoping that I can do that.

And if I don't meet those expectations,

that's sort of what I'm nervous about more than anything else. Whose expectations are you trying to meet? My own.
Okay. My own.
Yeah. I mean, how's your heart? My heart's great.
I'm doing great. Are you? No, I am.
My heart's good. But like, what, like, we're like, what, what do you mean? Like my heart.
We just ask that a lot. It's a fun, loaded question.
It's interpreted however you want to interpret it. My heart's, it's happy.
It's sunny and pretty in LA. I mean, I'm here.
Emmy's always a ray of sunshine. I really am.
You're going to get the same answer to that question. So I guess, where would you like, I mean, it sounds like you kind of came in with like, I've been in your position before in the sense that I had been nervous about an appearance and maybe an anticipated appearance where I felt like I needed to maybe address or at least wanted to address certain things.
And I kind of like replayed that conversation over and over and over in my mind and things like that. So to that end, what are the things that you hope when we get done here, what are some points that you hope to at least address and cover? Well, I think, you know, I think we could talk forever about what happened in the season and, you know, get into the nitty gritty.
And that's, I don't know, that would be useful. But so I think for me, I just kind of want to hear what you have to say and maybe what you have to ask in your impressions, because I think that would be a good starting point to try to address like the multitude of things that I feel like I have to say.
How long you guys been dating for? Almost four years. Almost four years.
Yeah. It's our birthday on Wednesday.
We have the same birthday. Yeah.
We have the same birthday. We have the same birthday, March 12th.
It's two days. So we take a trip every year and it's our fourth trip together.
Is that how you guys started dating or did you find out like after the fact? Will was my F45 trainer. and i just remember i posted on my birthday and you responded to my story i was dating someone else at the time and you responded to my story and you were like oh my god we have the same birthday and i was just like no way and he sent me a picture of his license and i was like that's cool and then see on tuesday at the workout okay you're like cool bro and then a few months later i mean honestly three months later we started seeing each other yeah we we had like a rock not a rocky start but it was not like uh one day are you gonna be my girlfriend and then we started dating no it was very much so like emmy was seeing someone else i was seeing someone else and then those relationships didn't work out and we sort of kind of fell into each other's arms a little bit and then was it like a run-in or did someone reach out and be like hey no we just always kind of ended up at the same place but we never admitted that we just liked each other it was like 4 a.m with a bottle of wine on a porch and emmy looked at me and said you know we're just friends and then we started hooking up so and you said challenge accepted yeah i, I said, okay.
But for how long? Yeah, about a minute. It seems like you guys have been the center or at least part of the drama of the cast.
Sometimes it feels like maybe the drama makes sense or maybe you say something you shouldn't say or or yada yada yada or sometimes it does feel

like maybe like you guys are like just like a target of the rest of the group it does feel like sometimes that i'm glad that comes across on the camera at times times it's like it's you know i mean we've known this group for so long so to ever think that 90 percent of the time their intentions are in good faith and because they care is bullshit so like a lot of the time during filming it just was hard to you know listen to half the people that were talking to us because we're like well i think too we've noticed you know our castmates get a little camera drunk and uh i think they're they've become in this third season very aware of what it means to have a storyline,

what it means to be able to get screen time, and that if you are on the offensive, you're not on the defensive.

And I think relationships are easy targets.

And I think maybe that's what you've seen a lot of is that maybe for viewers, it's been interesting to see, you know, why are they still talking about this?

You know, why are they so riled up?

That's certainly how I felt.

Yeah.

And then, you know, Emmy.

I'm reactive.

You are.

You definitely.

Objectively speaking, you probably don't do the relationship any good because your peers seem to know that if they rile you up, you're immediately good television.

Like if you see a preview and you're having one of your, you know, things that you do, I'm locked in.

I'm like, oh, shit.

All right.

Well, it's funny.

Emmy's mom has been saying

well she said like

after watching this season

that Emmy's been having

those sort of like

she's like

I don't like a nose

yeah like not meltdown

because I think that's mean

but

Emmy is very reactive

emotionally reactive

she's always been that way

I'm very

overstimulated so easily

okay

which why for me

like when I see her do that

it's not

for me my alarm bells

don't get off

because Emmy is just like a reactive she feels deep so i don't i'm not alarmed that's just who i know her to be i mean it is alarming to see your girlfriend cry like that i don't really suppress any emotions i definitely feel them when i'm having them and we feel them too and then i feel fine the next day because i literally got them all out and i'm like you know after my scene at republic i literally went to father's day dinner with my dad afterwards and i was like hey okay so okay um there seems to be like a lot of things about your guys's relationship that feels untrue or unfair as it relates to some of your peers and castmates have have directed towards you guys in the relationship however it also seems like there's also things that maybe have happened or like that might have some truth to it that maybe like almost like puts you guys in a bad it's like if one thing's true then they must all be true type of thing so maybe let's address the things that like maybe you guys have had to work on yeah uh or maybe things that you've had to apologize for as it relates to maybe how you guys have treated each other. I think maybe the criticism that's directed your way sometimes is maybe like things you may have said behind Emmy's back.
How much of that is accurate and true? You know, I think the starting point is very accurate and it's something that I'm like deeply apologetic and shameful of. And, you know, I was going through a really, well, first I just don't want to, you know, I want to explain myself without sounding like I'm excusing myself.
Like I'm not saying at all that the behavior is like, okay, it's definitely a mistake on my part, but you know, I was going through like a really stressful time. My life was changing.
I was just like, just had surgery. It was a lot of physical pain, yada, yada.
There's a lot of good reasons, but it doesn't really matter. You know, and I came back to Charleston and i used alcohol as a vice and i kind of drank too much and i overshared and i overshared to good friends of mine about concerns that i had with the relationship like i i thought that maybe we were growing apart and i was worried you know that emmy was focusing on the wrong things and that's something that's a conversation i should have had with emmy and i know that and i think think that it was a nice moment for me, if there's any silver lining to it, to recognize my own failure.
And then, you know, to go to Emmy and say, like, look, I messed up and we should have had this conversation. I should have come to you about this.
And it actually let us talk more deeply about our relationship and our feelings. So it wasn't like you were going around town, just like holding up a poster or being like like if you want to hear some shit about emmy i'm the guy to talk to this was a isolated one-off venting session it was two it was two weekends where it happened it was like sort of back to back okay and uh it wasn't like i i think when you say like oh will was talking shit about emmy especially on a tv show you just get get to throw it out there.
And then you have to sort of prove a negative that it wasn't talking shit when it sort of. It was talking behind.
Yeah, it was cousins to that. But it wasn't me just telling anyone that like, I hate her.
I think she's a bad person or that. There's definitely a difference between talking, venting about your relationship.
Again, doesn't make it okay versus just like there are people who do talk shit about their partners you know and there are people like they're just not on a tv show for the world to see it well i don't i don't even mean like in a defensive way i just mean there are people who like go out and just like we'll roll you know like they'll be out with the girls or out with the guys yeah like i hate her some will come out Some will come out, and then someone's rolling their eyes about their boyfriend or talking shit about their wife or girlfriend. I mean, like, oh, she's fucking so sorry.
Such an act. She's never leaving me alone.
Yeah. And there's a difference between someone who does that on a regular basis behind their partner's back versus, again, like, sitting down with seemingly friends and venting about your partner, which partner which again you can still cross a lot of lines doing that but i do think the framing is important those are are two very different situations because i i do i've seen both happen and you know people who just like openly just talk shit about their partners to me i think that's one of the i mean like that's you know i mean i mean this is much of a violation it's cheating to me in some cases like if you're going around just like thinking this is someone who has your back yeah it's like emotional and you're just like out there just like someone sounds like yeah no they fucking hate you versus someone who again who's just like sitting down with some friends and thinking it's confidence and then venting but maybe it sounds like you were also also inebriated or something.
Yeah, no. Well, I remember in these conversations, it was always like, I love Emmy and I'm concerned about these things.
And I'm worried that maybe we're growing apart. And part of the issue is one, I didn't have friends when I went to law school that really understood us or our relationship.
So I didn't have that outlet when I was in school. So I'd come into Charleston for the weekend and it was like on my mind pressing.
And then I, you know, added alcohol to the mix and blurred the lines of sort of who and where it was appropriate to have these conversations. But they weren't just to strangers.
They were to our coworkers that have known me and Emmy for years. And I think some people who brought it up said like, oh, he's telling the whole town, even one of my clients or like one of my friends.
But those clients and friends are like, one of them is Naomi Olindo from Charm, who was my pen pal in middle school, who I've known for years. But like that sort of context wasn't added to the conversation.
Gotcha. You know, and one was like somebody's roommate who I worked with behind the bar at Republic for years, who knows and Emmy well.
And I was sort of leaning in to those relationships to try to say, I just wanted someone to be like, no, you're stupid. This shouldn't be a concern.
And how did it get back to you? He told me. How quickly? Pretty much immediately.
He said, hey, I've been venting. He came to me and he basically was just like i you know expressed to others you know issues that i was having in our relationship and i feel bad that i didn't come to you about it and i think for me what the biggest issue at hand like at the time none of my friends came to me about it so it didn't seem like it was this crazy thing you know what i mean I was like, oh, you just vented to some of our friends about it.
That's fine. No one's come to me about it.
I personally keep my relationship between Will and myself. I call my mom.
I vent to my mom. That's basically myself.
But for me, I was like, I mean, I was pissed, but no, no one, none of my friends came to me about it. They just happened to bring it to me almost three months later.
I mean, there was some things that people were saying. And obviously, like, you never know what's true, what's exaggerated, what gets thrown in there for an extra little, like, flair.
But was there anything that your castmates were telling you that he said that he had not openly said to you no will basically said everything that my castmates said to me my castmates obviously use a little bit more intense terms yeah like anorexic he hates like kind of went really yeah and i'm just kind of like i mean going into who I am, like I've struggled with my own image and body issues and I'm almost 17 months sober right now. No, I am March 1st.
I was 17 months sober. And, you know, for me, this was the first time that, you know, I've really gotten myself healthy the right way, cutting out drinking, working out, doing all the things.
And in the past when I had lost weight, it was probably not the healthiest way. And so Will was just expressing concern because he was up at law school and wasn't here with me going through these motions when I was in the heart of going through my healthy new lifestyle.
And he was venting to others being like, is she okay? I'm not here. I'm asking the people that are closest to her about

this. I feel like there's a distance in our relationship.
And it's the first year of law

school. And I think too, I've always been hyper aware of it because I love her and I care about

her. And in the past, I've had to throw her scale out before because when I don't-

It's fine. It's fine.

Okay. Sorry.
But she can become obsessive and I was worried. I was seeing this change and

Thank you. before because when I don't, it's fine.
Yeah. Okay.
Sorry. But like she, you know, she, she's can become obsessive and I was worried.
I was seeing this change and I was hoping that it was attributed to this lifestyle, but I, I just didn't know. And I was sort of going to the people that are around her the most and saying like, am I crazy? Do I need to be concerned? Have you confronted any of these people who kind of went behind your back and turned what, in your mind, again, like lesson learned, but it sounds like what you're saying was in good faith? No, I mean, I think the time and the place was inappropriate of me.
And, you know, I'm just willing to fall on my sword. Like what I did was not right.
I should have gone to Emmy about it. Going and trying to confront these people isn't really, me like the point of this all i think the point of it was just to learn from this to to figure out how to communicate better in my own relationship and like going for vengeance or trying to hold someone accountable for maybe get a therapist yeah it doesn't i mean i don't it doesn't make my relationship with emmy but just more like yeah but like you know my my number one priority is my relationship with So, and these people, you know, this was never an issue until the cameras came out.
Like, I can't emphasize that enough. I really can't emphasize that enough.
Oh, it's like one of those things where it was like, wait, where was this? This happened at the end of March. Well, some people also decided that they were going to save it for the cameras and they wouldn't have conversations with us.
They wouldn't hang out with us. They didn't want to really- Who are those some people? Just so you guys, I mean, this happened at the end of March and this didn't get brought to me until the end of June.
Just so you guys know. When cameras were rolling.
Yes. So like the way that it worked, like these people knew about it, Brad, TJ, and I'm giving Maddie and Michael Michaels an exception to this because one, Maddie didn't owe me anything at that point.
We were just rebuilding our friendship. She doesn't owe a conversation with me about it.
And two, Michaels didn't have a relationship with Will. So I can understand where Michaels felt uncomfortable.
And Michaels and Maddie did not want to speak on it. You know, it's Brad and TJ who have a relationship with Will and I for three years now who know the both of us, who had every opportunity to have said something to us between the end of March and before filming started.
And even when filming started, it was like, yeah, they had a conversation with Will, but then they love to be like, we're closer to Emmy. Okay, then where was my conversation with you guys? The dinner table at the lake house with 12 people around us, eight cameras, and a production team behind us.
That's when you finally want to bring up something that you know is something I've definitely like was hard in our relationship that you know because you've been best friends with us. I'm like, you want me to sit here now and be calm? I'm going to lose my shit.
Like, that's valid. Did you not feel like Michael's being one of your closest friends? And did he not say was he at the bar when you came in? Did you not feel like that was a little bit of a betrayal from Michael's just like not coming to you as your friend? Being like, hey, I don't know your boyfriend, but he did say this.
And like, I'm your friend first because it was on the clock. I think that Michael's felt like it was manager michaels now my service not my monkeys this is not my relationship not my business like i don't know will like enough to get involved in it michaels also wasn't even 22 years old yet when it happened he's a baby he's 21 like he's learning life himself still so i give him a lot of grace for that once those cameras are rolling he sat you down well that was once it had already been brought up on camera for the past week and lake when lake came to him at the front door that was the first time he realized that people were talking about he did not say anything and once the toothpaste is out of the tube in front of the camera is like it's kind of like yeah it's gonna do with it about yeah and michael's coming to me one-on-one i respected that i didn't lose my shit i stayed very calm i was like this is great conversation it's once i have an odd and i get it like i get it but these are supposed to be like my real friends like not just like my show friends like these are people who we vacation with and spend our free time with the other nine months of the year and And for me, I was like, you really think I'm going to think this is authentic if you're going to sit me at a table right now on Lake Spore? This is a classic Bravo move right here.
Did you feel the contradictory between when you did sit down with Michaels in one-on-one where he was like, you were like, yeah, I've known about this. And he was like, well, why didn't you not feel the like well why didn't you tell me but that's what i'm saying i'm like and what i tried to explain i don't know if the viewers got this was like my relationship is between will and myself i'm not gonna go around yapping about our relationship my bad it's because i'm like i'm not i know how this i know what job i have know what career this is.
And I know how evil our castmates can be. And I know how they can twist narratives.
And I know how they can mess with people's storylines and their lives. And I don't trust them to a certain degree, especially with something that's so valuable to me, which is my relationship with Will.
This isn't some funny game to me. This is my life.
life this is the person i've been dating it was my mistake to not think this would ever come onto the tv show because i think it's just naive of me and in seasons past i think the producers were very clear that like if it doesn't happen when we're rolling we're not really too concerned about it always have been said that yeah so just stupid of me to think that we weren't gonna have to litigate this four months later it feels like yeah i feel like that that's how things start in good faith i'd also imagine producers went around and were like what's kind of been going on and they were like well will came and was yapping about emmy yeah they always sit down with us before we start but it's also a fine line though too right like devil's in the details you're a lawyer you know that right yeah like it's just like if it doesn't unless it happens on camera we don't care about it well it happened on camera once they bring it up on camera and then once they bring it up on camera it happens on you know what i'm saying like it's it's hard though i'd rather it have happened on camera because then you have all the context but when the story's told months later and i've already gone through all the emotions and process this and healed the issue in our relationship. And then it's like, okay, I'm on a TV show now.
And this is three months later, right? I know how this show works. You have to film it for 10 weeks.
You have to go on your green screens then for the next six months. And then you have to go sit at a reunion in February.
And I'm like, okay, this happened in March. This is 10, 11 months later now from an issue that if it would have been during filming would have only been like eight months later.
So it's like, I really don't get to just put a lid on what happened. It's like, you have to keep reopening it and living it and go.
And I'm just kind of like, oh my God. And like, no one was listening.
I bet you'll never talk to the 100 Mac again, man. You really had to.
Not due to any TV show. I think the idea is that I learned my lesson the first time.
But the thing that I think hurt me the most was that no one came to me either and was like, yo, well, what's up? Like, why? Why do you do this? Are you OK? Is your relationship good? Even just in like, hey, you had concerns three weeks ago, four weeks ago. How's your relationship doing? What's the update? And instead,

I think it was like,

oh,

let's put a ribbon on this.

This will be a great storyline for me that where I can go on the offensive

this next season.

I don't have to talk about my life.

I don't have to be interesting.

I can just kind of take,

you know,

take this rotten flesh and throw the hyenas.

Yeah.

I mean,

for me,

because they're like, well, why didn't you come to us to us and i'm like you're still the ones that brought it you're still the ones that brought it to me i don't know you still did it you can't tell me that you felt comfortable and all of a sudden at lake's birthday is when you finally feel comfortable like yeah i don't know if you need to be told this but those two people are not y'all's friends. Yeah.
TJ for sure. Well, I think when he said because TJ's talks to

we can get into TJ, but the TJ's... I think they both have their flaws.
They both... Yeah.
Oh, trust me. I mean, Brad's just done a good job of hiding it.
Yeah. Yeah.
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You said evil.

Do you actually think any of your cast makes

their actual evil?

I think there's one in particular

that enjoys hurting people.

Not TJ.

I think, yeah, I think Brad enjoys

inflicting pain on others.

Really?

I don't know how else to explain his behavior.

What makes you say that?

I mean, does this go back to the bomb that was dropped at Reunion,

or is it further back than that?

I mean, no, exactly.

I think hindsight's 20-20, for sure.

I mean, it all starts from the very beginning,

which was in season one, me, Maddie, and Will,

we kind of brought these cheating allegations to Brad, being like, we know that you slept this woman. Or he was homewrecking a relationship.
Homewrecking a relationship when this woman was dating another man. Bradley was.
Bradley was. While Bradley was seeing Maddie's best friend.
And these two women worked together at Republic. And so we outed Brad for that.
Maddie then says that she saw him getting a BJ behind the Republic alley. She outs him for that.
Brad is very, now listen, I'm pretty sure those are both. I know the first one's true.
The second one, I'm like, okay. And so Brad's pissed off.
And six weeks before we start filming season two, his client and him, you know essentially he found a girl he found a girl that had gone out with trevor one night and the girl sammy the real story is she went out with trevor and she actually made out with his friend at the bar and went home with his friend never trevor and for the next six weeks brad and this girl were conspiring to get her to hang out with trevor again so that brad was coaching her to setting people he was coaching her to cheat and yes coaching her and when that didn't happen show at the reunion that's the text that andy saw is brad saying i found a girl who's going to break up their relationship and Maddie and Trevor. Maddie and Trevor's.
And just so we are clear in the group chat is myself, Will, TJ, Joe Bradley, Mia Olario and Bradley Carter himself. So just so we know.
And this is the thing that Maddie was really upset about in the beginning of the reunion. Yes.
And I came to Maddie the night before the reunion because I just have had too many crazy things dropped on me on the stage, like with the cameras and everything. And I had so much.
Will wasn't there either. Will didn't bring this to Maddie.
Will wasn't in the room. I was in a meeting downstairs and I walked up to the hotel room and I was like, oh no, this is happening, isn't it? I was alone with Maddie.
Joe wasn't even there. And I looked at Maddie and I said, has Joe told you the truth about what Brad did? And she goes, no, what are you talking about? And my heart's like beating out of my chest.
And I'm like, Brad conspired with Sammy and lied. Trevor never cheated on you with Sammy.
Brad made it all up. You were right the entire time.
How did Brad get away with? Because he's a manipulative. Because he definitely was not the focus.
He's a really good liar. He's a really good liar.
Well, I think the story also, it's not just that he found this girl and he coached her to try to break up the relationship. When that didn't work, when Trevor wouldn't do it, he said, well, we can just say that you made out with him.
you go on camera i'll bring you around the cameras you say it you can't prove a negative and then we'll see what happens that's like some now you know why i freaked out all season like freaky level shit that he's capable of doing that and like doesn't really have i mean he showed zero remorse for that at the reunion he was like listen i can take accountability and like that was I up i'm sorry he um you know what was really just rich is like he's so good at lying we forgot the truth during filming like it wasn't until we went to a dinner i remember like brad saying something and will being like what like he was so good at like we forgot that that it wasn't even real the people that were like aware of it forgot that it wasn't even real. And before we filmed the season two reunion, TJ was texting Brad saying, I'm going to out you for making up the Trevor Sammy cheating rumor.
I need a storyline for the reunion because I'm worried I won't make it to season three. So I have three three options he's texting brad himself and brad said well he says i have three options i can either he doesn't say i have three options well this is what he was telling later on he does he says i can either out joe and luann who have hooked up i can out you for the sammy thing or i can talk about this cheating rumor i've heard about mia and her boyfriend and he picked the land things that had the most steam because it's connected to another bravo show and that's what he went with that's crazy and so full circle then you know we start filming season three and i'm like okay it's gonna be all wait but on the text messages that from the reunion is text from brad to emmy saying i can never be the same kind of friend that i or from my friendship with tj is ultimately broken because he would threaten to do this like he's gonna out me for this like i would have never told him like and i'm like you know will and i aren't innocent of this either like we were complicit in knowing the information and not speaking up but we didn't conspire with sammy like if you watch season two you don't see any scenes of will and i like bringing her bringing her around or anything.
We had our own stuff going on. Yeah, we had our own shit going on.
But I mean, it's messed up. So you're saying that Joe Bradley knew about this and he also never told Maddie? Yeah, I'm the one that told Maddie and she literally just- How long did Joe know for him? He's known since the beginning.
He was in beginning. Group message.
The group message. This happened April.
Why wasn't that addressed at the reunion? It was a short reunion. They cut a lot of it.
I mean, all this was spoken about, but only so much with made the cut. I think Joe will say anything that people want to hear to their face sometimes.
And, you know, that means he's got to stay friends with everyone, which means he's not ever going to turn his back on Brad. He's too scared.
And he's not going to tell Maddie what she doesn't want to hear. Well, not just that.
I think more importantly, the thing with Joe is that how do you tell the woman you're dating, by the way, I was complicit in a fake cheating rumor against you and your ex-boyfriend? And I think, too, like, I just want to address, like, our complicity. It's messed up.
We felt horrible about it. And we felt like we were carrying this around for a long time.
Yeah. Since we've gotten closer with Maddie again and with Joe and their relationship, like we really became real friends with them.
And I really love watching what happened to us this season and knowing that Maddie went through that herself made me like the truth of what she went through. Yeah.
Like when I came up to the hotel room and Emmy was doing this, like I just started, I started crying to Maddie because I was like, I just like, I can't imagine what you've been through. And I like, I'm so ashamed that I was even, I even had touched this and like knowing what I know now.
And I hate that it was my own pain that made me realize this. Cause I think that's not really a great quality to have to be hurt yourself to do the right thing.
Sure. Part of life.
It is part of life. How are you? I'm 26.
Almost 27. We're 31 and 27 on Wednesday.
Don't say that now. We're 26 and 30.
You're definitely old enough to know better. No, no.
I had a few Peter Pan years. Not just that.
I also think you kind of get wrapped up in the game. Sometimes you get wrapped up in the whole, no pun intended, but production of it all.
You just got wrapped up in it. And I think for some people, for Joe, probably his motive was Trevor's a shitty dude.
I don't like him anyways. He cheated on you once.
You shouldn't be in this relationship. I don't really care.
And for Brad, it was, I'm going to ruin your relationship because I'm vindictive and spiteful and I want to see you miserable. And so it was two different motives with the same conclusion.
So how much of the rumors about you in law school cheating stem from Brad? It was hard because I think we never really knew what the rumor was or anything about it. And it came up at that Vegas dinner and we were actually told by production like this is there's no proof to any of this if you talk about it or try to address it on camera it's going to gain traction and it's going to stay a storyline right now it's so dumb that we hope it gets cut like just like it's not a big deal so you know we we were actively discouraged from talking about it from trying to address it or anything so never really figured it all out until.
I imagine you also didn't want to talk about something. It was like ridiculous.
Well, it's just like back to season two. Well, that's what I was going to say is that like, I think what people don't realize is that this all came out like supposedly this was a rumor started at the law school in February, which was the exact time season two was airing.
January and February of last year. So people are watching a show where it's like, oh yeah, Will hooked up with a girl in a bathroom.
And then that's somehow the same exact rumor. So in my mind, it's just this one rumor sort of getting regurgitated through a TV show into a game of telephone.
Yeah. Into like an environment that doesn't understand reality TV that doesn't know who I am.
And it's easy to just say, oh yeah, that's, that's Will. That's the thing.
I'm not even sure that that was the rumor at the law school. We had, we had a phone call with Austin's girlfriend before.
So we didn't think like this was getting discussed in the TV show anymore. And then we were like, we heard that they were filming let me let me clarify this will texted austin's girlfriend's brother the night of prom the night before the night was it the morning morning the day of the day of prom because all of a sudden shit's getting fishy everyone's acting weird i'm trying to mend my relation my like relationship with tj and brad they're acting weird as shit and i'm like something's going on we also heard that they filmed a scene about the cheating room yeah i'm like we thought this was like off the tape and we're like what the hell are they doing so we're like okay let's call oh you must have had total anxiety we don't know what's going on so we're like okay what do we do we're like this is gonna text ali's brother so we'll text ali's brother that's where we thought this rumor came from so i'm like okay this is a person.
Because we're guessing the whole time. I just, as a professional courtesy as a law student, said, I don't want to involve you in this thing.
I just feel like I need to ask you personally. And if you tell me you're not involved, I'm going to make sure that we don't mention you or your name anymore.
This is your friend, colleague, the person who was- This is the girlfriend's brother who we had assumed that this rumor came from and he said it's the only link between austin and the law school and we no one ever told us where this rumor came from so we were guessing i texted him just saying like look i want to protect you from sort of what reality tv can be as a professional courtesy and what happened is that austin wasn't supposed to be dating ally because they have sort of a weird history really weird and the family does not like him and he was like oh first off I didn't even know that they were dating that's not good and second I've never heard anything but great things about you the law school I've never heard this rumor anywhere so Allie like is her brother then I guess reaches out to her and is like what the hell is is going on? And Allie ends up calling me. And this is before I literally right before I go to prom.
She tells me Austin was encouraged to exaggerate the rumor or to make it more juicy. Encouraged by whom? People.
People. Probably with some headphones and microphones.
That basically she was like, this isn't true.

Like he's just been encouraged to talk about it for juiciness.

And I'm like.

Yeah.

And at this point we, we were so like tripped up and we, it was sort of, we felt so David

and Goliath about it.

We recorded this conversation.

So we have the receipt of Ali saying.

I don't trust anyone.

I was like, I'm recording this.

So we have Ali.

That's smart.

We have Ali recorded telling us that this rumor is complete bullshit bullshit so that's that's us walking through the finale we know our friends are fishy we know that this is sort of come out of nowhere you also know that they're willing to do whatever it takes we know that they're willing to do whatever it takes for a storyline and so like when you watch the finale in the reunion that's where that's sort of the prerequisite like such facts also it's like understand like where our heads are at this rumor really flopped with austin after vegas i mean if you guys watch the episode when they're at run club austin's like i don't know anything else going on i don't know i could just kind of make sense based on the phone call and he's like i don't know anything else and then uh then brad and teacher are we will go. We've got this.
We're going to take this truth

and we'll build two lies

and this is going to be magic.

That's why at the finale,

it makes more sense now

why when we went to go talk to Austin,

TJ and Brad came around

because Austin probably didn't believe

the rumor anymore at that point

because he was like,

there's all of them saying you walking away

means you're guilty is,

I mean, just the biggest crock of shit

I've ever heard in my life.

It's like you're walking away

because it was like there's all of them saying you walking away means you're guilty is i mean just the biggest crock of shit i've ever heard in my life it's like you're walking away because it's like this is nonsense and no one this isn't productive also like craig walked away when like he got accused of page cheating on him and that scene last season i'm like people walk away when it's so dumb why would you give it any breath well also what tj and brad tried to do was bring in stories of my peers in law school and try to use it as ammunition to make it true and some of these stories are incredibly sensitive where i was helping people out who were going through like difficult situations that i did not want to then expose or talk about their situations on camera like i let a girl stay at my apartment when me and emmy were filming the reunion together emmy knew about it season two reunion we're up in new york emmy knew about it that's the that's the girl that's the you let a girl stay in your place for weeks it was two nights who's just a friend that happened to be a female in a situation where yeah she was in a bad situation and she was moving into the apartment complex and you said you can like put your boxes in in my apartment, here are my keys. If you need to sleep on the couch because I know that you're going through a lot, go for it.
It's probably, it might be a better place for you. What did you make of Mia saying you were the most unfriendly person she's ever met and you would never offer for someone to sleep? It's rich coming from Mia.
Yeah. Can I come to Will's defense for that? It's just like i'm a dick to some people and nice to others just because i don't like you or i don't you know whoever you are doesn't mean i haven't been nice to other people yeah but mia is also not very friendly so if she's like the the gauge of friendliness then the gauge is a little broken you know okay but i you know me is sassy and she'll be the first person to tell you i don't have empathy i'm not an empathetic person yeah you know she will fully admit that so for her to then yeah but one person decides like

how how the world treats me is how i guess apparently yeah but you know it so that yeah

so then it's like to litigate this issue with people that are betraying us that are supposed

to be our friends based on this like prerequisite situation that's like incredibly complex and difficult to then when a camera's in your face, like go through all these steps about why we feel this way. because well it's also like clearly you two made decisions within your relationship like couples do all the time and someone got wind of something that y'all decided to do and decide

like thought it was their position to like interrogate the two of you about it, where it's like, you're like, no, I, I was there. I knew she was staying.
I was like on board with her staying. Like we have no.
And I don't regret it. I would, I would do it over again.
I don't care about the outcome. But it's like, they, they feel like y'all, they deserve for y'all to come to them and tell them every decision that the two of you make in your relationship.
And then when they have concerns, they don't ask. It's just like an isolate and ambush, right? They want to isolate us from the group, stir up the hottest pot of tea that you can find and then splash it scaldingly hot into our faces and then watch Emmy cry and watch me walk away.
And they figured, hey, that's good. It's a good recipe a great recipe i can't honestly i can't blame them because it worked pretty well they're the kind of people that are also like keep us totally involved in your relationship tell all of us but like shame on will for telling anyone about your relationship i'm like what do you want like yeah we're really we're really worried law school's gonna be hard in your relationship and then it is and then it like, how dare you let this be hard on your relationship? So where did the like, does law school have a prom? I wasn't aware that that was a thing.
It's called Barrister's Ball. See, I told you.
Yeah. It's like a thing.
Every law school has it. It's essentially just like a law school prom.
Lawyers want to party too. I get it.
Yeah, lawyers love parties. You know, the funniest thing, Will didn't even go to the Barrister's Ball.
Yeah. He didn't even go.
Oh that was the whole you didn't buy a ticket yeah like that that's just a just total crock and then if you look at like what the finale was in the setting like in my mind i'm like imagine all this is true what were they setting emmy up for to be humiliated they're expecting this to be true so they're expecting me to invest my time into making a law school prom reenactment, you know, during filming. And then for my friends in the middle of this prom to drop, hey, by the way, Will cheated on you with the girl that he brought to his law school prom.
Bam. And I'm just kind of like, you guys are fucked up.
Well, it's kind of what Maddie said, where it's like, you know, when I guess TJ comes

to her and is telling her and she's like, oh my God.

So she's trying to throw a prom to make up for the fact that he took someone else to

his law prom.

No, I wanted Emmy to come to my law prom with me.

I was skiing with my dad in Aspen.

She didn't tell her dad the weekend and he booked a trip to Aspen for them.

And I was upset with her.

I was like, I really want to take you.

And then I was sat at home.

So how did you end up in the show in the first place?

He did.

Not me.

Yeah.

So I,

it's actually,

it's really,

it's sort of complex,

but I was managing and bartending and modeling in New York and COVID hit.

And I came back to Charleston and I had like an LSAT book on my desk for

years. Cause I'd always wanted to go and I dusted it off and I was like, all right, I got to make ends meet, you know, in the interim.
So I started working at Levis Bars. So I worked up the street at this place called First Place, which is now Lamar's.
And I was seeing a girl at the time. And this is the same.
You don't have to get that. It's very complex, but it was the girl reagan from season one and then that was the girl that i was seeing before emmy but this we could do a whole podcast on this we need we would need like a whole like a chart behind us you guys got on this so they saw they saw me and reagan sort of hooking up and they we were both sort of eccentric people and we were working for leva and they were coming to shoot sort of like not like a pilot but you know they were doing their waters yeah they're testing the waters and interviewing and i was like this this seems fun it sort of fell into my lap it's net i never wanted to do reality tv and it's never it was never a dream of mine i like still feel a little cringe that i'm doing but um me and emmy had just started seeing each other and they were filming the intro and And Emmy was blacked out drunk.
And I was like, she kept coming up and distracting me because we were doing this big long. I ruined all the scenes.
And, and so everyone had to get their marks right because it was like, they were filming all 10 of us in one long shot, which I don't think made the final edit, but it was a cool concept. But Emmy kept coming up and distracting me like right as it was mine.
And they'd have to reset. So I was who is this blonde girl like keeps ruining all the scenes so i was like emmy you gotta get out of here and we were like bickering and then i put her in a in a pedicab and she went home trevor drove me home no i'm kidding no yeah and then her contacts fell out and she came back and she's super blind she was like velma in the bar he's mixing the story up a little bit so much but these basically the whoever was shooting this was like who's that girl and what is this relationship between will and emmy and then emmy got casted shortly after okay and then what is your relationship status with the show as of today it's difficult for me i think the clearest thing for me is that i'll always support emmy and her position in the show you know i think that i've probably ruffled some feathers by probably i've certainly ruffled some feathers by not going to the reunion yeah it's something you know i'm not i i regret it a little bit what was the ultimate decision yeah like why i mean for the critics who are listening to this now and saying well why didn't you just go to the reunion and and plead your case there with all your peers and give them a chance to you know respond and yada yada what would you say to that yeah i it just he didn't trust that they would tell the truth yeah i i think we were just starting because of the way that the show had portrayed me in our relationship it felt like that i would have to dig my dig myself out from under a mountain and the the ways that I would address it would need a long-form segment just to try to break down all the nuances.
And on top of that, the people on the stage I knew are just very interested in whether or not they're making it to the next season and are sort of willing to say or do whatever. They wanted that fight.
Yeah. And it was just going to be a bloodbath.
It wasn't like I could come on here and explain to you guys like, hey, this is what happened and we could have like an engaging conversation. It would have been sort of two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back.
And these people, they aren't my friends anymore. And they were going to be on that stage and try to act like we were still friends and use that as a position of power to engage in a conversation with me that I felt was ultimately a fake conversation.
And I also just like my mental health at this point couldn't take it. It sounds like you're not sure what your future holds.
And it almost sounds like you're not even sure if you even have the opportunity to come back if you wanted to. But if you did, where do you stand if you were given the opportunity to put water on the bridge and come back to season four, even though you didn't show up? Would you say yes, or are you still on the fence? I'm still on the fence.
I think there's some conversations I need to have about how the show is filmed. And I also think that like the, the two most important things in my life right now or my relationship and, you know, what's left of my legal career after all this, but the I just don't see reality TV as a format where relationships thrive.
Yeah, no, you're definitely, I think it's, you're the exception, not the rule. If you are in a relationship.
Yeah, I think there's been a lot. I mean, we had Taylor Green on recently.
Yeah, I know Taylor very well. And she said she mentioned to you guys that before season one, your relationship would probably be under fire.
Did you think it would be this intense? No, we didn't think it would be this bad, but we probably should have. Yeah.
I mean, Spencer and Heidi might be the only couple that's really made it through. Amanda and Kyle.
And they've gone through the ringer, I feel. And honestly, I don't know how they make it.
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, Spencer and Heidi might be the only couple that's really made it.
Amanda and Kyle. And they've gone through the ringer.
And honestly, I don't know how they make it. Yeah.
I mean, yeah. Brad recently posted.
He blocked both of us, so we don't see anything. Well, it's made its way onto some fan pages.
Yeah. Posted a picture in front of a law school saying like law school 101.
Yeah. I applaud his commitment to trying to make me feel bad.
Took a field trip to that I think it's funny because I'm not sure I think it is so weird that these people are so invested in your relationship I'll just say that he's probably taking a picture on the outside I'm not sure he could get in get in but that's super weird i mean listen i i get it like people cheat there's rumors circulating about all types of people blah blah blah blah blah and like it's like the age-old question right like if you have a friend you've heard a rumor about infidelity between you know two people who are dating like do you say something or do you not say something right that's always like a Right. And like, unless it's like cold, hard evidence, you walked in.
I mean, you can debate it. It's not, my point is like, it's not even like, you know, there's a lot of opinions about whether you should say something or not for the, for the people who would argue.
Right. But for the people who say, you know, you should say something.
And I think there's a time and a place where like, you know what? I think the truth needs to prevail. Fucking just put it out there.
It might not be received well. You might burn some bridges by you just speaking your truth.
But like sometimes maybe the truth needs to get out. But there's a difference between doing that and like fucking making it your fucking mission and your whole life and becoming invested in the story and like making sure that whoever you tell believes you.
It's just like, wait, what? It's crazy. gives a fuck like who are you other than the fact that you've attached yourself to this and it just becomes really weird and people do I mean Brad's not the first person in the world to like make their whole existence about like making sure other people believe some kind of rumor that has nothing to do with them I don't know why why people do it.
Yeah, that's also not true and has never had a single receipt. None of our actual friends that aren't on the show, none of my girlfriends came to me.
No one ever heard any of this. No, even if they did come to you.
I'm just saying, there's a difference between asking you a question and being like, hey, babe, what's up? For me, that was the craziest part, too. And I don't know if it made the cut, but I literally said it took Mia 24 hours to hear that.
Will talk shit about me. You think it's going to take seven months to hear that.
Will's cheating on me and taking other people to the, there's going to be pictures. There's going to be text message.
There's going to be a roommate. There's going to be so much evidence.
You think it's going to take seven months? I'm like, shut up.

I mean, the fact that TJ, one of them, was like, I'm going to make this my life mission and came up with nothing.

If he showed up to the reunion with not one ounce of proof or a new life to any of the rumors, which just feels really nasty to me that, like, people still had the audacity to raise their hands when andy questioned like who still thinks will cheated on emmy oh then the girls who are laughing oh my fucking god yeah that was really mean girl energy between they are grace grace and lake is real mean yeah she's just spoiled and she doesn't know life yeah she also doesn't. Like she's been here five minutes and- The girls are not tight.
That's my biggest issue with this season. There was no investment in having a girls night and getting us all getting to know each other and us having our own- We never had one scene where it was just like the girls filming together.
And for me, I'm just kind of like, I'm not going to get to know these people in these different environments. You know, Grace and Maddie, I've long time mia didn't film besides the last three weeks of filming you know because she was in trinidad she was gone and so for me i was like i don't know who molly is i don't honestly be honest keep forgetting who mia and and grace are i kind of oh my god this is iconic though so i don't know if i'm let that one i don't and maybe she is i just don't don't grace is iconic.
She's not in every episode. Grace means well.
Grace is iconic though. Grace is iconic.
I don't know if I'm going to let that one slip. Maybe she is.
I just don't.

Grace is iconic.

She's not in every episode.

Grace means well.

Okay.

Grace means well.

Like at the end of the day.

She was kind of mean at the reunion.

Yeah, I know.

It was hard to watch the three of them laughing at you as you're like breaking down about a friendship.

It's like.

I mean, you know, Michael was a real one during all that.

You know, he didn't make the cut, but he stood up for me and was like.

Did he?

He was yelling at Molly at one point.

Yeah, Molly didn't get one ounce of airtime.

Yeah, and I'm not going to give her any here but um you know i just you know from my wish you know for next year is that there's actual girls who want to be on the show women that want to be on the show that have their own identity and that don't have to leech onto mine that can make their own statement and be interesting by themselves who are a little bit more mature and actually captivating and interesting. Yeah.
And that fit well with the group and will last for a long time. Because if I'm going to be with you for a long time, I, you know, I mean, the girls got to stick together.
I think that's what makes great television is like a group of girlfriends that you can tell at the end of the day, they do love each other and there is love there, but like they fight like any relationship. There is just none of that with your cast.
Mia's taken the bitchy title. No one else can take it.
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Subject to changes. back here but the scene where you got really upset and maybe about you didn't take shifts the pocketing the dress money oh my god and then you walk in and you're like you're doing made it so much worse well i will start i will start yeah that that we'll explain so let me give you full backstory saturday night this is before the shift i start getting really sick it's like midnight i can.
My throat's killing me. I'm like crying.
We're sleeping out at Will's parents' house. It's like now like two in the morning and I'm like, Will, just give me NyQuil.
Give me something. We have to film tomorrow.
Like I need to sleep. I need to sleep.
And Will gives me like two NyQuil. And so I wake up and I'm like in a fucking trance.
Don't know what I, I'm hot. I'm cold.
I'm overstimulated. We try filming with Will's family that morning.
I'm crying in his mom's bathroom. I'm like, I don't feel good.
I feel really sick. And they're like, you don't have to go to work.
And funny enough, I'm thinking to myself, I don't trust that my truth will be told that I actually called out sick. So I'm going to go to work.
Maddie's now DJing. She's not working.
And one

of the other girls has called out sick. Siobhan's going to be alone.
I'll go work with her so she doesn't have to work alone. LOL.
And I end up going to Republic. And you see the scene of me leaning against the bar.
And I look at Will and I give my thumbs up to him. And it's because he's making sure I'm okay because I felt like such shit.
And Siobhan pulls me aside. I was like, hey, can I talk to you? And this is a girl that has been my girl at Republic, makes me cookies every week.
She's flown me down Wawa from New Jersey before. This isn't just my coworker.
And she's like, I need to ask you a question. And I'm like, okay, you look so nervous.
What's up? And she's like, so you're an ambassador for Revolve. I guess now I'm not on TV, like you look so nervous.
Like what's up? And she's like, so, you know, you're an ambassador for Revolve.

I guess like now I'm not on TV, so I can say the brand.

You're ambassador for Revolve.

Like you get commission every month and you have an affiliates link.

Like, are you using your monthly commission to pay for the dresses?

And so then you can pocket that money and go spend it wherever you want.

Or are you using your link so that you get commission off of purchasing the dresses and making you know 10 15 off the dresses and i'm dumbfounded i'm like i immediately already am i will sign now here you tell the story i'm like i don't huh well this so i would have been like just just my my interjection into the scene was like all of a sudden someone's like emmy is upset i'm out at the bar and my brother's coming to film for the first time and so i'm like trying to text with him i'm like nervous he's got to come get mic'd up and stuff so i see emmy i walk in she's giving me like the don't fucking come over here eyes like the i got this like like just stay out of it stay out of it so i walk up here's another thing they're gonna do they're gonna will's getting involved in work drama i'm like yeah i don't need that so i i walk up and she's explained situation i'm like so this didn't happen like because i'm like if it didn't happen this is all so dumb well i'm also reacting really big but then i look at the situation and i go all right this is two two girls fighting about a work issue i'm coming in as like the man who's in law school now that's going to try to like adjudicate their dispute when I have no dog in the fight. Like it's just going to be me mansplaining to them like how they need to resolve a work issue when I don't work there anymore.
And I said like, it's probably better if I let them solve this issue on their own and then I'm there for Emmy afterwards. I'm just thinking you dumbass.
And then me and Emmy filmed an hour long scene afterwards where I was consoling her and me and my brother were talking to her about the situation but that i mean in the moment in the moment yeah in the moment i was really like oh you are so dumb for being such a smart person just so you know but i was also like at the same time it didn't look good i i know that i was like i i could have probably rubbed her back or kissed her on the forehead and that's a lot of context. I'm also clocked in at work.
And I mean, my whole thing was they don't show it, but I pull up my affiliates link. I show her everything I've ever been gifted.
I show her everything that's been bought in that month so that she could see that I didn't like use my link to get commission. I show her everything and I show her the actual invoice where I use like my Amex to buy it.
And what got to me though was she was really intense and was like, I need to know if I'm getting fucked over. And I'm like, I am a VIP server on an equal platform like everyone else.
I am not the AGM. I am not the VIP leader.
I'm a VIP server. I order these dresses for the girls because I want to do a kindness to Michael's to help him out, have his load be easier.
And I know everyone's dress sizes. I know Maddie and Eva need an extra, extra small.
I know that we can't have bra straps showing. You can't have midrash showing.
And the big alleged crime that you may be getting commission? No, I'm not. Yeah, using her affiliates link was the thing.
Oh, I might just be getting commission. That would have been a good idea.
I mean, honestly, it seems stupid if you didn't. In the moment, I'm thinking, damn, what's going to happen?

Your friend should have been like,

girl,

get your fucking bag.

That's what the other VIP servers said to me.

One of the VIP servers,

Julie,

came up to me.

She goes,

I don't want it.

It's kind of weird that they would be like.

She's like,

my VIP server,

Julie,

she came up to me and she was like,

you know,

I mean,

you spent all the time,

the effort looking for the dresses,

picking them out,

ordering them,

doing our returns for us.

Did you get in commission cost anyone?

No.

No,

it wouldn't cost anyone.

The amount of times that I use my own codes for things to buy.

I wasn't even thinking about it.

Thank you. our returns for us.
Did you get in commission cost anyone? No, it wouldn't cost anyone. The amount of times that I use my own codes for things

to buy things for myself

is like, I mean, that's not a crime.

I was like, that's kind of smart.

That's all the more reason why I would have the exact response

that you had, which would have been like, I don't know, and I

don't care, but like, huh?

Was there a part of you that wished you would have been

like, the fuck? Like, no,

I didn't. I was so fucked up on NyQuil.
I was so exhausted. I was so tired.
I was the audacity to me because she's not on the show. And it's in the middle of our shift at work.
And the response, no matter what, was going to be me freaking out and disrupting the workplace. So I found it inappropriate to begin with.
And secondly, I what the fuck i was just like because i've sent the response is great your response was off the wall when is filming start up again they haven't told us yet but usually it's like mid-may and if you don't come back she's gonna be fighting on her own brad's gonna be you said I was evil. I don't give a shit.

Eventually, Will's going to graduate law school and be a lawyer. How much time do you have left? I've got one year.
Okay. More a year.
And then I got to pass the bar. Were you worried about your peers making fun of you for being on the show? Yeah.
And it's gotten really bad at this point because of the season where I am now struggling to have privacy at school. where I've got female peers that i love studying with and doing projects with that are really intelligent students nope i can't i literally can't be at the school like alone with a female or else i see like on some page or thread somewhere that wills wills at the school with a girl and it's like i'm literally just trying to get an a in this class but it's not that simple anymore and it's made it sort of uncomfortable for me yeah that's unfortunate and what's also so dumb too is like i don't think i don't know if people know this but like will broke his ankle like last new year's he had to get surgery in a plate and six screws put in his ankle he couldn't even drive a car so i was living with will she was my living six weeks driving to school every day.
Bringing him lunch. Like I was at that.
I'd have to get his knee scooter out so he can knee scooter around. Like during this said cheating rumor accusations.
I'm like, Will can't even drive a car. He can't even do anything without screaming in pain.
I mean, look at him. Y'all think he's fucking a girl in the bathroom.
Look at him when he has a little neck tweak. Like you think with a little ankle pain, like he's going to wake up in the middle of the night and like scooter.
Like, are you kidding me? So it's just pathetic to me. Do you think TJ plays the victim? Yeah, we need to talk about TJ for a second.
I think TJ, he's built his entire identity around the show. And I think that he's wanted to be on reality TV for a long time.
I think he wanted to be on charm for a while before this show and i think maybe he's just it makes him insecure when he then watches himself back on the show and he's just very hyper aware of how much time he's getting like screen time screen time may be true but that doesn't like justify but i do think that it it well i get what you you're asking. Is he just that kind of person in general? Maybe you guys can clear some things up for me, but it's my understanding that Joe was blackout drunk.
Yes, he was. And that no one's disputing that.
No one's disputing that. Joe was blackout drunk.
I see where you're going. And I just don't know why we're having a conversation at all about this topic, given that one person was blackout drunk.
Yeah, just wasn't. And doesn't remember.
And doesn't remember. Damn.
And that like the fact that TJ is like pushing this narrative when Joe's like, listen, I don't know what happened. Maybe something happened.
Maybe something didn't happen. But I don't fucking remember.
And if like, sure, I don't know what happened. But it seems on the reunion, like TJ, you know, is obviously very emotional.
And, you know. Joe had a girlfriend at the time.
Whether he had a girlfriend or not, he's blackout fucking drunk. And why is TJ able to victimize himself when the real question is, what the fuck were you doing? Yeah.
And I think what's also wild is that it wasn't some secret. He was vocal to N Charlestonon about this thing with joe like when it happened in summer of 2021 just to clarify so i think you know i think at some point he's saying like i i didn't really tell anyone other than brad like that's not true he's been talking about it season one season two season three it's always been a conversation so there were like you and your friend at the reunion who said that he had you know austin said he told him and then maddie said he told her tj's in your crying it's all fucked up because his feelings and it was like i think it kind of goes you went out with your friend he got blackout drunk something happened he doesn't remember you tell everyone about it which is like i don't think think you're off base.
I'm just very disturbed by

what's being ignored versus

the narrative TJ is pushing

and how...

It's such a difficult topic.

I think it's because we're...

It's hard to talk about

these things, and I think maybe we don't talk about

it enough, but

I guess just being

so wrapped up in it all, I had never really taken a step back and seen it like that way and it's weird we didn't because it was never tj pulling the moves it the accusations were joe was pulling the moves if that makes sense this was all coming from tj exactly but that's what i mean you know that i think is where it kind of, I don't know why we never thought of it like this. I mean.
Because we've talked about it for three years. I mean, he didn't, you have Joe being, sitting at the reunion being like, dude, like.
I guess I'll take your word for it. I was blackout drunk.
I mean, well, he's kind of like that you're, you were spread, like I had a girlfriend, you were spreading this rumor about me and like he was like well that's how i felt and like i was hurt and why didn't you go to him you know back to the whole case in point like go to the person in the situation where you had the problem with like for me i was like you should have gone to joe if you created a narrative that joe's in love with you over it you should have gone to him asking his intentions behind it and when it finally came out that he didn't even remember it they're like you spent three years creating a false narrative over something that originally came from you to begin with you know it just to me felt like a lot of what like confusion yeah i mean i've always thought that like if it's true it's wrong if it's false it's wrong yeah right right yeah i that's like the simplest way to, and I just don't know why TJ is able to like milk this storyline for a storyline where it's just like, bro, like you seem like the bad guy and every version of the story. He doesn't care if he's the bad guy.
He just wants to be on TV. I've always felt really bad for Joe through the whole thing.
So I can't imagine how difficult it's been for him to navigate yeah and i was curious as you guys you guys know the the situation we used to be best friends with them so we actually know everything about these people up until probably the last six months yeah probably a year i used to know their every thought like literally their every yeah we all had each other's locations for like three years straight hung out 24 7 joe bradley lived one floor above me in my apartment complex season two when will was at joe bradley's apartment he was one floor above me to the left literally so and we're you would say you're not friends with anyone at this point no i mean that's a little i mean i am texting michaels right now as we speak i mean i'm like this with michaels i think michaels your first season on the tv show it's a big learning curve maddie are Michaels right now as we speak. I mean, I'm like this with Michaels.

I think Michaels, your first season on a TV show, it's a big learning curve. You and Maddie are really close now, too.
Maddie and I are really close. Do you think you guys have bonded over these false allegations? Well, I think we both, like, we've gone through a lot together, and we haven't always been on the same side, especially, I mean, season two, we definitely were really butting heads.
And now that I've experienced kind of what it's like to have everyone just attack your relationship, I'm just like, I can't believe. Yeah, I don't know how she did it.
I don't know. I can't believe you didn't cry.
I can't believe you kept it together so much. Like, you know, and I have a lot of empathy and I have a lot of respect for Maddie and I have a lot of love for her.
And, you know, she's someone who's been on this show with me from the very beginning. And she's someone that I want to always have her to lean on me to going forward.
Like we figured it out and we are not each other's enemies. I want her to be like one of my closest friends.
Like she's a true girl's girl. She means well and she will ride for the people she loves.
And, you know. Do you think her or Michaels would have your back in a room full of people who don't? Yes.
Now I do. And the issue was at first was that Maddie thought that Will did cheat on me because of her experience with Trevor in season two.
So all season, she thought that I was- Before she knew. Before she knew the truth, she thought like, oh, this happened.
Emmy's blindly in love because this is what she had convinced herself. And once I dropped the bomb that Trevor never cheated and she was gaslit and lied to so that she could understand why I don't believe anything at all that's being said to me she finally was like oh my god like will didn't cheat on you uh trevor didn't cheat on me like what that's why she's like what's even real anymore and so where do you think she's gonna stand with brad yeah no me and maddie are do you think brad's gonna get his next season i mean i hope so like how i mean i think karma will i don't need to do any digging you can't that's my thing with brad and he like makes these posts and everything and i just don't feel the need to engage because i think if you if you go out into the world and you act that way you'll in one day you'll get what's coming to you no i get that but i mean even just if we're just talking pure tv mad to, you know, I'm just saying like, I mean, shit, you got half your cast like coming up with storylines for the sake of storylines.
Well, there is a storyline now. And one of those storylines is one person in the cast is making up storylines to ruin other people's lives.
It really threatens the show, and it threatens our... Mental health.
I mean, honestly, everything's spreading rumors about you or other people that are involved

with you.

It really, you you know for all the people who misuse the term gaslit it really fucking like that's on the nail on the head of gaslit a picture of Bradley Carter is next to that definition in the dictionary like literally I've never seen a man so quickly gaslit well I think it also hurt i think it hurts the show as a whole because i don't think anyone who's involved you know top to bottom wants there to be it only works it only works once yeah the creation of it to all be lies of something that's fake the idea and what we'd always hoped for from the start doing the show was that you know we were really tight friend group and we wanted to go through the ups and downs of being friends together. And I think that was always the plan.
And somewhere along the way, it got sidetracked. And I, I think it's been bad for everyone.
I think everyone in some ways is going to be hurt by that. And it's just really unfortunate.
All right. Do you feel, how do you feel right now? I feel good.
I, you know, it's, it's hard to relitigate these things again again i think people don't understand that that about reality tv is that your life is not your life your life is over and over and over and over again to audiences and then it's hard people comment on sort of how it's documented and you know what do you mean will didn't cheat on emmy there's how do you just have fake cheating rumors that doesn't happen yeah if you're in the real world maybe like and and and our lives aren't like even the real i mean people are bored people are bored and it's an easy target too like i think you know my my life my whole life isn't this show like i have school and and and stuff like that and these the problem is now they've they've bled into each other in a way that that's been tough and i appreciate being able to go on something like this with this sort of format and have these longer conversations because i think they're important and i think that it complements the sort of the show world very well because you get this more nuanced take and you get the ability to to really speak about who you are and maybe not just the caricature of you that that people see in a limited context It's also tough too, just because like I imagine, you know, you guys have spent the past hour and how many minutes like- It's flown by. Defending, you know, rumor this or rumor that.
It's exhausting. But like, you know, like every couple, I mean, you guys have, I'm sure your relationship problems.
I don't know. I'm sure shit has happened in your relationship.
And it's like a weird thing because everyone knows no relationship is perfect. And perfect and you're sitting here like well that didn't happen and this didn't happen and that's not true if we were to be honest about any other issue then it does that get piled on to the fake ones or is that right so it makes it it makes it hard for us to want to be open open up about the shit that does happen because we were always like we were always super open to talk about this like if if we had filmed all of that stuff about, you know, me inappropriately oversharing, I would have loved to have that conversation in different terms.
Like, and to really talk with, you know, Brad and TJ and my friends about it. But the issue is that it blew up at a big dinner where I wasn't there.
And it's like, okay, well, how do I have this conversation now? Because it seems like it's already been pre-written for me and what my role in it is. And it was really disappointing for me.
And it made it the season as it kept airing, I felt more and more of that other people were telling my story. And then it made it hard for me to actually want to tell the real story of us.
And I don't think we really got a chance to talk about like our fights and our lies grew legs. And then we didn't even have the opportunity to address the lies before everyone else gave it legs.
And it's like, what, what, like, what have you built out of a simple explanation? I mean, I applaud the two of you for being able to get up and go and film the show and do it. Thank you.
It's not something I would ever want to do. It hasn't been easy.
I can't imagine that it has. But I do want to ask you if Grace Lilly is saying like, maybe this career isn't for you when you were kind of opening up about like just how hard this has been on you.
Did that? I think I just wanted the audience to understand because i think a lot of times they forget that there is such a production behind what i go through and that you don't just live it once you live it so many times over and over and over again and a lot of what you see during the season is me realizing we are at a big dinner table at Lake's birthday. This isn't some cute little side issue.
This is the season. I've realized everyone's been talking about this for the past three weeks.
This is the season. This is the storyline.
This is it. I'm the target.
This is going to be the, I just, and that's where my pan, I'm like. It does put your outbursts into context but that's why it's just like it's like your your your freak out seemed to come from you having like this like this oh shit moment yeah it's not about will mic'd up realizing like oh i oh i see it is you guys have been talking about this for three weeks oh you've all your all, oh, your scenes last week.
Yeah, and I think she's realizing, okay, we're going to have to talk about this for a year. In that moment, she's, you know, playing 20 steps ahead in the chess game.
That is, can be the show sometimes. And that's my biggest thing.
It's like, that's why every time I freak out, I'm literally like, I can't, they can't just leave us alone. Like I can't get a break.
And it's because I literally don't get a break every day. I have to talk about it.
I mean, but fair or not there, it is, it's my career though, that I chose. I mean, that's, you know, some of the people I know in Bravo world, like I, you know, to Nelly's point, like I couldn't do what they do.
Yeah. I'm not even willing to do what they do.
And they are professionals and it like there's hazard pay, so to speak. I wish I was dumberumber so i didn't know exactly what i was going to go through because everything i knew i was going to go through i've went through you it's almost like you have to like separate the person and the character yeah and you have to be okay with being the character and then allow people on the outside world to not know the difference yeah i i think for I've, especially this season, struggled with that so hard that I really question whether this is the right thing for me.
And when I look at Emmy, I think that she's a star. And I just think that she, it's hard for her to put her relationship in that context.
If it was just Emmy, you know, the server at Republic, then I think she could do it, you know, 10 times over. But I mean, it does kind of feel like, yeah, that this, this is where you guys are at in life.
You're in law school, you're, you're working at a bar and then the show's being filmed in this moment in your life. And it seems like the show has been able to just, he's disregarded Emmy.
He doesn't care. You know, like you have this, you got law school and really kind of taken almost like this legally blonde kind of like, you know, you're in law school and you have the, you've planned out your guys' life together.
And like, I don't think there was a scene where you talked about like proposing or something and it was very much like you've decided... I sounded pretty silly in that, I think.
It's like a reward. Yeah.
You know what's so funny too? And I don't know, like the viewers wouldn't know this, but like Will and I are very neurodivergent. Like I was legitimately diagnosed with ADHD when I was five years old.
I was put on 20 milligrams of extended release Adderall when I was five. I have been on adderall for 22 years damn so for me like just so we know like i'm all i'm also so y'all are in good company like just so you know like i am a very like i deal with sensory processing issues sensory like i am a little special sometimes and i get overstimulated i I could feel the mic on my back in some scenes and i'd literally be tweaking out like because it was falling down my back while i'm in a serious conversation like the lighting is blinding my eyes you saw many times i took my sunglasses off of my conversation with michael's and like will also is a different version yeah i just say things weird sometimes but and i think they take it and they run with it you know i gave them i gave them plenty of ammunition and i can only blame myself for that because it sounds like we have no chemistry and i'm like to the viewers probably at this point you guys seem normal enough after 90 minutes of of talking uh i hope so thank god i think you feel better you feel better you better.
You know, I think, thank you guys for giving me the forum.

And yeah, you know, I think we could talk forever,

but I don't know if that's going to make it any.

I mean, is there anything that you feel like you didn't get off your chest?

No, I feel better.

Okay.

I feel better.

I think that's the best way to say it.

Clearly, you overthink.

Yes, clearly.

I know.

He does.

So like, you've done a good job. I don't, you know, and And don't think And don't sit there And replay this in your head Over and over I'll try not to I mean It's just I mean I think like One of the last Little bits and pieces That bothered me the most Of this season Was seeing how one-sided They tried to make My relationship with Will And how they tried to make it Look like I was so obsessive Over it And Will couldn't give a shit as if it's a one-sided story where...
Emmy wears the pants a lot. Yeah.
Well, it's one thing I've learned about reality TV and I've been in this business for a long time is things have a way of coming around and it's always the long game and the people who do make TV, they know what they're doing. And even if it was the last scene in the finale of the prom where that whole group kind of bizarrely followed you and ganged up on you while you guys were supposed to have this like one-on-one conversation with the with austin i really think painted a picture of what the real dynamic of this relationship is and you know don't know what holds the future for you on this show.
Sounds like, Emmy, you're back for sure. But things have a way of flipping itself on its head.
And maybe Bradley or TJ might have to be in a different position. Yeah.
I think I'm very lucky that Emmy is such a, she's very glass half full kind of person. So I just think going forward, no matter what happens with the you know who's involved in or who's in the hot seat

I think that

you know

I try to borrow

a page from Emmy's book

which is just to see it

for the best

well thanks for showing up

for this

yeah of course

we appreciate it

thank you guys for listening

hope you guys enjoyed

this episode

we'll see you

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