E890 - Southern Charm w/ Venita, Bachelor w/ Alexe, Love Is Blind, Martin Kove, Traitors, and Summer House

Transcript

Speaker 3 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 1 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 9 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved, so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 6 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 11 That's pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 4 Ah,

Speaker 12 greetings for my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 12 No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets.
Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 12 Save the offer in the app. N1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms, points give your renee for cash and more pay in four subjects, terms and approval.
PayPal Inc. and MLS 910-457.

Speaker 12 Finding healthy snack choices for your kids can be a challenge.

Speaker 12 So many bad options out there. So, where can you find a place that only is giving you good options? Well, that's Thrive Market.

Speaker 12 Let's be honest, raising a family today feels like navigating a maze of unhealthy options between hidden sugars, artificial ingredients, and misleading labels.

Speaker 12 It's so hard to know what is actually good for our kids.

Speaker 4 Can't tell you how many times I go to the grocery store and I am like, oh, look, it's organic. It's healthy.
It's good. And then I read the ingredients and there's a long list of chemicals in it.

Speaker 4 So at Thrive Market, I really trust them to show me options that are good for my family.

Speaker 4 Thrive Market makes it simple to find trusted, family-friendly brands without spending hours in the grocery store from snacks and school lunches to pantry staples.

Speaker 4 Everything they offer is 100% non-GMO.

Speaker 4 The convenience of not having to go to the grocery store with the peace of mind that what I'm ordering is low-sugar, gluten-free, organic, and high-protein options is actually unbeatable.

Speaker 4 The Healthy Swap Scanner in the Thrive Market app is one feature we can't live without. Simply scan a product you're used to buying and it instantly recommends cleaner, healthier alternatives.

Speaker 4 This has been a game changer for our family. Instead of bags of chips, we've opted out for snacks that thrive market organic veggie sticks and will never go back.

Speaker 12 Ready for a junk-free start to 2025? Head to thrivemarket.com/slash V-I-A-L-L and get 30% off your first order plus free shipping, plus a free $60 gift. That's T-H-R-I-V-E-Market.com/slash V-I-A-L-L.

Speaker 12 ThriveMarket.com/slash V-I-A-L-L.

Speaker 12 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick, and it's nice.

Speaker 4 It is nice to see you. That's how he greeted me when he came home from his three-day trip in New York.
That's not true. He walked in and he was like, Rubber!

Speaker 4 Dogs!

Speaker 4 Nice to see you.

Speaker 4 I'm the fourth in line. Isn't that crazy? That is crazy.
That is not

Speaker 4 crazy.

Speaker 12 Absolutely not true. No, she's ahead of Steve, after Jeff.
No.

Speaker 12 I went to New York for our wedding.

Speaker 4 Our wedding. Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 Congratulations.

Speaker 12 I went to New York. Let's try it one more time.
I went to New York for our friend Emma's wedding and her husband, Adam. Good friends.
You guys may know

Speaker 12 Emma Gray. She was a writer for HuffPost.
Well, I went by myself. So, you know, sometimes when you're a married couple, you have a kid.
You have to divide and conquer.

Speaker 12 I went as a representative of the family.

Speaker 4 I love Emma. I wish I would have been at the wedding.
It's the flight to New York that I just cannot do. And you know what's fucked up about it? Is that when I'm with Nick, he puts us in row 50.

Speaker 4 When he's by himself, he's like, oh, let me upgrade to premium select plus

Speaker 4 plus. But when I, when I, when he's with me, he's like, we'll sit by the bathrooms.
I got an ups.

Speaker 4 I got an upgrade option. He sent me a selfie on the plane, and I'm like, I notice that there's an emblem on that seat right there.
Yeah. And that's not on row 50.

Speaker 4 I would know. So is the math mathing though?

Speaker 13 Is two coach seats the price of like

Speaker 4 first class. I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 12 I didn't fly first class.

Speaker 4 I burst his child. I carried his child and then I burst her.

Speaker 13 You think that like I just like you could check yourself in, Nick, and then have her in the first class.

Speaker 12 When Nally's done complaining. Sorry.

Speaker 4 You know it's a good complaint, but go ahead.

Speaker 12 Well, I'm just saying like Nally didn't get her. Well, this is another, this is a, not to pivot, but like question for the points people out there.
I'm not not like a bunch of a points person.

Speaker 12 Like, fine. Like credit card points, airline points.
I got them. I started using them.
I'm a Delta points person. Natalie has an account, but hasn't been accumulating them.

Speaker 12 So when we travel together, she doesn't get the perks of an upgrade.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Because you're stealing her points.
No, she's still.

Speaker 4 Because he's never used my Sky Miles number to book our tickets. So I don't get any points.
Anyways, I am curious, though.

Speaker 12 It's just like from an airline standpoint, what is the point of having points? Like,

Speaker 12 I'm a platinum diamond-something bullshit. What does that even mean? What it means, what I think it means, is that instead of being like not even on the upgrade list, I'm like 15th.

Speaker 12 So, like, what's the fucking point?

Speaker 4 Because you can use your points to upgrade.

Speaker 12 Like, every two years. Yeah,

Speaker 12 I can buy myself a free plane ride.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 And that's after a lot of money spent. True.

Speaker 4 Sometimes it gives you like access to lounges.

Speaker 12 I don't need your fucking lounges.

Speaker 4 But he won't let me go in the lounges either because they charge him $50 to let me go in.

Speaker 4 He's like, if you got her scot points up. it's kind of like the Maxwell priority too.

Speaker 12 I just like, I don't know the point of like community food, even though it's private community food.

Speaker 4 Oh my God, this is why I love going to the airport. This is why I have no problem being there two hours early.
I get to sit down.

Speaker 4 Buffet food. Oh my God, just to like relax.
I can like plug in my phone.

Speaker 12 Yeah, their lounge is nice. The lounges are nice.

Speaker 4 You can have a private area to yourself if you want. You can sit amongst people.
You can grab a drink at the bar. You can sit outside.
But food's garbage. Some of it, but some of it's decent.

Speaker 4 You got a nice coffee machine. Sure.

Speaker 12 You have a coffee machine.

Speaker 13 Would you rather have a $20 muffin from Earth Cafe?

Speaker 4 No,

Speaker 4 he made me get

Speaker 4 a turkey sub from Jersey Mike's at 7 a.m. Yeah.

Speaker 14 Would you rather fight for your life in the line of Panda Express?

Speaker 4 No, I fought for my life in the bathroom later on that day. Exactly.
Where are you? So be great.

Speaker 4 That go from the ceiling to the floor.

Speaker 14 Some of us have only ever heard of the Delta Lounge.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 I've only ever seen the sign from the outside.

Speaker 12 It's nothing special.

Speaker 14 I don't believe that until I see it with my own two eyes.

Speaker 4 Oh, it's something special. And I would love to show you that experience.

Speaker 4 I think I would love it.

Speaker 14 I love free things.

Speaker 12 I thought you were going to complain about my phone being I knew not to say.

Speaker 4 Oh, my God. Yes.
That's another thing. So he's gone.

Speaker 4 He's gone in New York. I'm home alone with our one-year-old who is in all that toddler stage.
She is mischievous and she is naughty and she is very fun, but she's a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And Nick's just dilly-dallying in New York City, like getting getting coffee here, getting lunch here, shopping here. And like, I'm home fighting for my life.
And I text him. I was getting

Speaker 4 Nick. No, sorry.
Hubby Hart has his notifications silenced. I'm like, the fuck? Notify anyway.
Notify anything. Then I go to call him immediately to voicemail.

Speaker 4 I'm like, the fact that I have to call you twice and notify my text messages when I'm home alone with your baby is crazy.

Speaker 12 I didn't know. I didn't know that phone.

Speaker 4 If I were getting murdered, I'd be like, hold on one second. I have to call him one more time because it's on Do Not Disturb.
And that's bizarre.

Speaker 15 Nick, your phone has been on Do Not Disturb for months.

Speaker 4 Just so you know, if not a year. You just did.

Speaker 12 Well, I just turned it off. Fine.

Speaker 13 It's a laptop. His laptop's on Do Not Disturb and it's broken.

Speaker 4 But like, this is. This is my laptop's fixed now.
So you can turn it off. I guess.

Speaker 4 Turned it off. So you have a serious choice.
What do you mean? Do you add contacts to your favorite? And ask who's on it. Not his wife.
Well, because I was going to say that typically.

Speaker 12 Yes, I have a favorites list. It hasn't been updated since 2012.

Speaker 4 It's like his parents and all of his buddies.

Speaker 4 Nowhere is his wife. Red plug.

Speaker 4 Literally

Speaker 4 people from

Speaker 4 12 years ago.

Speaker 12 Is that what happened? If you're on a favorites list,

Speaker 12 you get bumped.

Speaker 4 I'm pretty sure that

Speaker 4 almost like

Speaker 4 get to skip the do not disturb or like if you call them, their calls will go through on your favorites list.

Speaker 13 You can also call twice and it goes through the do not disturb.

Speaker 4 Right. Yes.
I had to call twice every time I wanted to reach him, which felt insane since I listened to him.

Speaker 12 I got a scolding.

Speaker 4 And then he texted me. Then, then he felt the need to be like can you have lunch ready by time I get home from the airport I'm like oh no

Speaker 4 I mean then I'm like well we have like the mobile dog roomers coming to like groom the dogs out front I'm like I can't leave the house I always and then I'm like can you pick up

Speaker 4 and then he goes oh so now I have errands like I asked for lunch to be ready but I have errands instead and I said don't you fucking dare i'm not the one insane for you to complain and he said on my way

Speaker 14 that's kind of like this wife.

Speaker 4 I love it.

Speaker 14 This did you hear about the wife that returned home from surgery to a complaint from her husband?

Speaker 4 Me coded. It is so me.

Speaker 14 Would you guys like to hear about it?

Speaker 16 Go ahead.

Speaker 14 Okay, so basically, this woman comes home from gallbladder surgery, very excited to rest and relax in her own home with her family.

Speaker 14 Very soon after laying down on the couch, her husband brought up a frustration he had with her once again, right after she got home from surgery.

Speaker 12 What was the frustration?

Speaker 14 Basically, he expressed that he wants her to stop putting his athletic shirts in the dryer, something he had asked her to do before.

Speaker 12 How many times did he ask her?

Speaker 4 It doesn't matter. She was at home from surgery.

Speaker 14 She was frustrated that this was the time he decided to bring it up to her.

Speaker 14 Instead of checking in and asking if she needed anything after the surgery, she told him to do his own laundry from now on if he doesn't like the way she does it. Yep.

Speaker 4 The amount of times that Nick has complained about something that I've like put in his suitcase, because I'll pack the family's luggage. She packs your suitcase for you.

Speaker 12 Oh, do we need to have a list of all the things I do?

Speaker 4 Oh, he doesn't. He doesn't get the remote at night.
He doesn't get the water. He doesn't do the nightly errands.
And he doesn't pack for himself.

Speaker 4 No, and he'll be like, and he'll be like, why did you pack me this? What the hell? Like, where's my, you only packed me t-shirts and shorts? Like, you know, I hate shorts. All right.

Speaker 4 You want to get into that story? You want to get into that story? One, one time.

Speaker 12 That's the first time Natalie packed me, and she's referring to this one particular time where I didn't let up because where did we go? I forget.

Speaker 4 Was it our honeymoon?

Speaker 12 We're shorts. Yes, it was our honeymoon.
It was our honeymoon. She was like, I'm going to pack for you.

Speaker 4 My love. I'm going to pack for you.
Yes.

Speaker 16 Acts of service.

Speaker 4 Acts of service. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 12 she looked beautiful, by the way. My wife on her honeymoon looked stunning.
She had a variety of outfits and selections.

Speaker 4 I see where this is going.

Speaker 12 I had a pair of pants and maybe two shirts.

Speaker 4 Sorry, I didn't know he wanted all these jeans in Puerto Rico.

Speaker 4 I was like,

Speaker 12 I was like, you packed for me? Like, she packed me like three items.

Speaker 4 What was in the rest of the suitcase?

Speaker 12 Great question.

Speaker 4 More of her stuff. Okay.
Well, you know, she does have the photos and the, you know, needs to look nice and the dinners.

Speaker 4 Thank you. Yeah, anyways.

Speaker 4 I love you.

Speaker 12 I love you too. How are your flowers?

Speaker 4 They were absolutely beautiful. He did send me some flowers and said, miss you.
You love flowers? I do love flowers. Well, Nick is really, he's really good about flowers.

Speaker 4 Like, and I know it's because he has the florist on the speed dial and he'll just the florist will text him being like, hey, buddy, it's St. Patrick's Day.
You want to send some flowers?

Speaker 4 and Nick's like yeah sure happy St. Patty's Day love Nick do they really remind you no

Speaker 4 you did on Valentine's Day because I accidentally read the text I sent her

Speaker 12 no what happened was I sent her flowers just because uh-huh that's sweet I spent I was thinking about it about $12,000 a year on my wife's for flowers

Speaker 4 does it come with a vase it does those vases are nice I have but also so I have so and now because he's is so gracious with his flowers I have nowhere to put these vases and I'm like I can't just throw these away.

Speaker 4 Like, these are such nice.

Speaker 12 So there's. I sent him just because.
And, anyways, it was a week and a half away for Valentine's Day. And he was like, hey, we're getting busy for Valentine's Day.
Would you like to get on the

Speaker 12 sketch? And I was like, sure.

Speaker 4 Totes. Thanks, bud.
For sure. Yeah.
Make them big, make them nice.

Speaker 12 That was the one time he gave me a little heads up.

Speaker 4 And then I was like, and of course she saw it.

Speaker 12 I did get a cost at the wedding, though.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 4 How was that?

Speaker 12 Wedding was tons of fun. Wonderful.

Speaker 12 It was, I really, obviously, since our wedding, which we loved loved and it was like the best wedding ever but you know because it was ours so biased of course but this was in new york it was at a this beautiful chinese restaurant it was my first jewish wedding um which was a lot of fun the culture of the community so much fun like just great it was at this beautiful chinese restaurant and what i loved about it is because like if i were to have one our wedding was great but like and i think the food was fine we had boiled peanuts mac and cheese yeah

Speaker 12 but like the food was fine i don't know if anyone was like talking about the food when we got done.

Speaker 4 Just to interrupt for a second, we do like whenever Nick and I were starting the wedding planning process, we were like, food has to be like, we wanted food trucks, but we didn't want people to wait in line for the food trucks.

Speaker 4 We wanted to be served hot. We wanted it to be this.
And then we were like, we are doing way too much. No one like gives a fuck.
They're just going to like eat what they want.

Speaker 12 People remember, but like, I don't think the food was like, you remember the food from this wedding in the best possible way.

Speaker 12 It was like at a Chinese, it was like at an amazing Chinese food restaurant. And it was like, you know, it was like, I don't know, like 100, 125 people.

Speaker 12 It wasn't like a huge huge wedding but it was big enough and it was like in this like big dining room but it felt really intimate it was like a big intimate dinner and I with a huge family and friends having just amazing food and like you know great speeches and things like that and then we danced so it was a lot of fun and then uh afterwards then someone came up absolutely hammered and stumbled up to me uh said that they were a journalist and that this was off the record and started asking me a bunch of divisive questions um which really made me feel uncomfortable yeah you

Speaker 4 How'd you get out of it?

Speaker 12 I've always like, I don't think this is any of your business. And then to which she took offense.
And then her friends kind of butted in and apologized for her and said, hurt people, hurt people.

Speaker 12 And she's going through it right now. Okay.

Speaker 14 Sometimes weddings bring the worst out in people.

Speaker 12 There was that. But I did get to talk parenting with Daniel Radcliffe.

Speaker 4 That's pretty cool.

Speaker 12 That was a lot of fun. He was also a guest at the wedding, lovely man,

Speaker 12 who also has a young child at home. So we got to talk about parenting, which was a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 Cute.

Speaker 12 So, really cool. We do have a great episode lined up for you today.

Speaker 12 And this week, we have a very explosive, very dramatic, very incredible going deeper episode this week with the one and only Bella Thorne is with us from not talking much about all her drama in her life.

Speaker 12 Well, she's here this Wednesday and she really opens up and with a lot of drama in her life going on, she kind of took a back seat and now she's here to talk about all the things going on in her life.

Speaker 12 So it's a really fantastic episode. She really opens up and speaks to just all the controversy that she's been going through.
So she is with us on Wednesday.

Speaker 12 You will definitely not want to miss that episode. Also, we have at the end of our episode, the wonderful and endearing Martin Cove.
You know him from the hit series Cobra Kai.

Speaker 12 They're in their last season on Netflix, also from the Karate Kid movies, a legend, a legendary 80s villain and now a more complex character on Cobra Kai.

Speaker 12 But he is with us, has some great stories, and can't wait for you guys to listen to that as well. Later today, we have Alex went home on The Bachelor, Mrs.
First Impression Rose, Miss First 101.

Speaker 12 I really thought she was going to be top three or four. Now they didn't think so.

Speaker 4 Listen, I've been, I would like someone to replay the tape of me saying that it's going to be Latia and Juliana. Yep, as the end.
You did say that. I thought Juliana for sure.
and Carolina.

Speaker 4 So I was very wrong on Carolina, but I was also right on her being the drama. So I'll take it to the bank.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 We also, before her, we have Vanita from Southern Charmers with us to talk about all those shenanigans going on in the Bahamas. That was a brutal episode for Shaq.
Oh my God. Poor guy.

Speaker 12 Do you think he's a taking one for the team?

Speaker 14 No. No, I think he's delusional.

Speaker 4 I think he's delusional.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 14 Which we've all been there. You know?

Speaker 4 You know, that text message that was sent. I mean, it's not like

Speaker 4 that text message, he deserves to go to prison. Yeah.
But I'm like, even if you're like 16, 14, 30, 40, whatever, I feel like some, and at one point in your life. I've never received that.

Speaker 4 But have you ever sent a message? Absolutely fucking not. Oh, my God.
It ruffles on your lips.

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, like it's too far, but I'm just saying like that text message of like, oh, I'm divulging all of my feelings in hopes that this will win you over.

Speaker 4 And it's like, oh, my God, no, they were never on the same page, same channel, same show.

Speaker 14 Ending anything with, thank you for listening to my TED Talk, jail.

Speaker 4 Yes. I'll jail.
For sure, don't tell me how I feel. Nope.
I know that you love me.

Speaker 12 I kind of feel for Shep. I do.
I think

Speaker 12 he's a grown man with with a little, you know, a little boy mentality. He's like 44.
This is the type of text you're supposed to send at like 21.

Speaker 4 Exactly. Maybe 14.

Speaker 12 And then you're either your girlfriends or guy friends, you know, after you kind of open up and like spill your guts and emotions in a way that you should just never have. They're like,

Speaker 12 don't do that anymore. But like the fact that like Shep is what, 44

Speaker 12 and and this is the time of his life where he's finally like being crushed by someone emotionally and he sends the text like this is.

Speaker 4 Like, don't make me feel like i'm seeing eye to eye with austin like austin was one of my favorites this episode and i was like how is that happening why just because he was just giving me just being real like not sugarcoating it and being like no man like maybe she'll get something he was like you shouldn't have sent that yeah yeah when you maybe vanita will let us know if she was fake drowning yeah that i do have some questions or like what about jt were you attracted to or is it even real you know let's ask her

Speaker 13 we'll find out can we talk about the airwan 20 strawberry not in plural?

Speaker 14 Singular strawberry.

Speaker 13 So Erewhon just like started selling these. And then he free.

Speaker 12 For people who don't know about bougie Erewhon, because most people aren't living. Is Erewhon only in California?

Speaker 4 I think it's also in New York, isn't it? No. Oh, well.
It's only in LA.

Speaker 13 Basically, Erewhon is like bougier than a Whole Foods, a nugget.

Speaker 4 Yes, it's a grocery store. They have like

Speaker 4 a hot bar where you could like get lunch. There's got like all kinds of foods.
They have a smoothie bar. A lot of celebrities do like smoothie collabs with Erewhon.

Speaker 13 It's where like hot people who can't cook go to eat healthy food yes like i've seen a lot of influencers be like thanksgiving and it'll be just a bunch of like air one hot bar food yeah before the price tag add a zero onto everything no it's crazy everything is organic or everything is made out of something you didn't know could make that substance like pistachio flour so basically they're selling singular strawberries from kyoto japan for 19 each and this is the blurb for the strawberries our strawberries redefine sweetness and beauty each berry is cultivated to achieve perfect symmetry brilliant color and exceptional size whether choosing our tochiaka or rare white jeweled varieties, except an explosion of flavor that elevates the ordinary strawberry to extraordinary heights.

Speaker 13 And basically, what they're saying is organic strawberries are rare, accounting for only 0.002% of Japan's total strawberry harvest. This is like a rare.

Speaker 4 So, then why are we stealing them from Japan? Like, if I will be, the only time I'm buying a $20 one strawberry is if I am in Japan.

Speaker 4 Like, the fact that we are like shipping them here, I was going to say, selling them at Air One. Like, it kind of

Speaker 12 is a big deal. This is bad press for LA.
Like, refresh off the California fires, where obviously there's a lot of people in need in LA.

Speaker 12 Obviously, we know that LA is a city that does have a lot of money

Speaker 12 for some people, not a lot of people in the city.

Speaker 12 And the fact that it's making news that there's a grocery store in LA selling $20 strawberries and they're flying off the shelves is a bad luck for us. I'm just saying.

Speaker 13 Well, people are saying, like, this is proof that Erwan is a social experiment because it's like, you could just, like, make something super expensive for something so cheap and, like, people are going to buy it.

Speaker 4 They had a

Speaker 4 cluster of ice cubes for $18.

Speaker 13 The The balls, right?

Speaker 12 What do you mean a cluster of ice cubes?

Speaker 14 What if I walked into the bottom?

Speaker 4 They were like martini balls of ice cubes. Like the like the whiskey round spheres of ice.
That's literally frozen water was $18. I hate everyone.
Well, it's just like for one single strawberry.

Speaker 4 And then I'm like, what that says to me is that probably if you go to Japan, it's probably like a dollar.

Speaker 4 And that was all just like shipping and getting the like single use plastic that's like wrapped around it.

Speaker 14 I mean, I think to buy a $20 strawberry is loser behavior.

Speaker 4 I kind of want to do it though.

Speaker 13 Like I want to try. Like, what if we bought it for the team and we all had a nibble?

Speaker 4 I bet it tastes like a

Speaker 4 strawberry. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know what? I wonder if, speaking of social experiments, so there's this influencer podcaster.

Speaker 4 Her name is Avery Woods, and she's been like under fire recently because she did a whole episode saying some like controversial things.

Speaker 4 She like said something about like Jesus Christ like doing stuff to women to get into heaven or something. I don't know.
It was very crazy.

Speaker 4 She also said that like she had C-section, so therefore her vagina is like pristine.

Speaker 4 So, basically, like, shaming all women who have ever had a vaginal birth, which is crazy because she is like a mommy vlogger. So, that's like pretty much her entire audience of women.

Speaker 12 I mean, assuming she was telling a joke that didn't land, or was she being serious?

Speaker 4 I mean, I don't, it wasn't in joke form. I think it was her being like, well, I had a C-section, so like, I'm pristine down there.
Oh, yeah. Like, that was, I think,

Speaker 4 that was the way she delivered it.

Speaker 12 And what's the opposite of pristine for all the ladies who didn't?

Speaker 4 Yeah. It's like, what are you saying about my vagina? And like, how do you know what my vagina looks like? You know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 So it was a little, it's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way as it should have. And she's now come out and given an apology and has said that the entire episode was scripted.
Of the podcast episode.

Speaker 4 Do you think she's lying?

Speaker 14 It's like Joe Coy at the Golden Globes throwing writers under the bus for what?

Speaker 4 Literally, it's like, well, I mean, have like...

Speaker 12 Have they ever scripted a podcast? Is their entire show scripted?

Speaker 14 They're scripted podcasts.

Speaker 12 No, I know, but I'm saying

Speaker 12 it'd be like if one day we were like, that one episode, you know, where we said that thing that pissed you guys off. That was so scripted.

Speaker 4 It was literally written by Mary.

Speaker 4 You could, people would buy that, I bet.

Speaker 12 She's taking a leave.

Speaker 4 It's like, I don't know. I just feel like that's how can, I mean, I guess podcasts are scripted.

Speaker 4 I just can't, in my mind, I like cannot imagine us like sitting down on like a Tuesday afternoon and writing Wednesday's episode and like writing in being like, I had a C-section, so my vagina is pristine.

Speaker 4 Okay, I'm gonna say that. I'm gonna say this.
Like, that's what I'm saying. We, she's probably

Speaker 4 did she release, like, proof? I, not to my knowledge. It was just her, like, crying, being like, I'm sorry, the producers, it was a scripted episode, like, oh my God, mic drop.
Right. Okay.

Speaker 4 But she is on

Speaker 4 Wells Network, and people said that, like, Alex and Sophia used to, of Call Her Daddy used to, like, script all their episodes.

Speaker 4 They've like admitted to being like, yeah, we used to script some episodes.

Speaker 12 So people are like, I think there's a difference between like writing her joke or two or like coming up with a story that like call her daddy with, you know, when they were talking about the fucking GluckLuck 3000 or whatever.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I think they definitely talked about some of their anecdotes or whatever, but that's not the same as like a scripted whole episode.

Speaker 4 But do you think blaming like non-landing jokes on it being scripted is a cop-out? Yes.

Speaker 12 Because like if anyone on this team wrote a joke and I said it and then I first of all read the joke, said, oh, that's funny. I'll say that.
And then delivered said joke.

Speaker 12 Then there's the whole opportunity for us to like listen as a group to the joke. And then we, you know, edit the episodes.
And someone's like, everyone listens to that joke.

Speaker 12 And everyone's like, you know, does it land? You know, there's several, even for our very, like, on a, you know, very simple process over here at the Vile Files, like, it's scripted or not.

Speaker 12 I mean, I don't know. You still said it.

Speaker 4 You still said it.

Speaker 4 So whether it came off the top of your head or you approved it and then said it and memorized it and all of the things, like, you still take ownership on the fact that you said it say it forget it write it regret it during the medley i mean you know she said something that was kind of slightly like pissed people off i don't think it's the end of the world i mean like you know i think it's just like obviously very telling when like you're in i mean she's just like coming for her whole audience it's like religion vaginas yeah it's like you're a mommy blogger and to then like or mommy is that what they're called nowadays mommy mommy influencer mommy blogger i don't know um i think they all apply it's an interesting choice yeah i mean listen it's tough like everyone wants to be a comic everyone wants to tell a joke people there's a lot of conversations about comedy being dead and things like that and like you know like which i can totally like i can see that the like frustration with comedians but like i just don't how i don't understand how any of like saying like either that was funny but that's the thing between like you can say anything if it lands or or not but the thing is is this like i don't know who this person is but like she's not a and this is not meant to be a criticism but but like my understanding, she's not a professional comedian, right?

Speaker 12 We have Nikki Glazer on, we've had her on for a couple of times, and every time Nikki Glazer has come on, she says multiple things that piss off this audience. And you know what Nikki thinks?

Speaker 12 Not a goddamn thing. You know what I'm saying? She doesn't give a fuck.
She's a professional comedian.

Speaker 12 So when she goes on stage and tells her jokes and does roasts, she does say things all the time that rub people the wrong way. She doesn't issue apologies.
You know, she is a comedian.

Speaker 12 She just like allows people to like consume her art and have an opinion.

Speaker 12 And when non-comedians go on a platform and try to tell jokes and they don't land, I don't, I mean, I don't think, you know, if you're going to tell a joke, own it. Own the joke and lean in.

Speaker 12 Don't apologize, you know, or apologize and stop telling jokes. But you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't

Speaker 12 split the difference and be like, well, I told that joke. It's not my joke.

Speaker 12 And I'm not a comedian, but like, you know, so don't tell tell jokes, you know, or, or tell the jokes and like, say, I was joking and like, don't fucking apologize.

Speaker 12 Because you know what I've learned in 2025?

Speaker 12 Not a single apology has ever landed ever with anyone that you're apologizing to they don't give a fuck about your apology they just want to make you pay more so don't even say you're sorry if you actually hurt a person with your actions not like the internet fine you should probably apologize for it like you don't don't apologize the internet the internet doesn't give a fuck the internet it's the same thing that i've said before about like the internet doesn't care about the truth like they only care about the fun like crazy narrative that whatever person is spinning they don't ever care about the truth so yeah it's like to like correct someone or to apologize, it's never going to land and it's never going to go as viral as the initial story did.

Speaker 4 And it's never, people are never going to forgive you or give a fuck.

Speaker 12 Comedians don't apologize. They tell their jokes, they move on, they, you know, they do their thing.

Speaker 4 You know, what were we talking about before we started about someone?

Speaker 14 Sienna.

Speaker 4 Sienna. So on Southern Charm, obviously, we have Sienna and Shep a very uncomfortable relationship to watch.
It's crazy great to say the least. Can we call it a relationship?

Speaker 4 It's very uncomfortable that we can call it uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 Bad, bad.

Speaker 4 But it's like his, what we thought, like his girlfriend before they ended up in the Bahamas. And now we see that it is very clearly one-sided.
But she has now taken to social media, of course.

Speaker 4 She's gone to TikTok and been like, hey, everyone, do y'all care? Like, I'll do a series on like my time on the show and what it was supposed to be. And everyone was like, oh, yeah, sure.

Speaker 4 Like, give us the tea. She was like, okay, I'll do a live, a TikTok live.
And then she posted another one being like, So, no one wanted me to do a TikTok live.

Speaker 4 Uh, so I guess I'll just do like a couple series, um, starting with how she met Shep, all of that. These like TikTok, these are TikToks, these are TikToks, yeah.

Speaker 4 And she said a whole lot of nothing for seven, six, seven parts. Um, could have been just one 10-minute TikTok.

Speaker 4 It honestly could have been nothing because she really didn't say anything that like was news to me. 100%.
What did she say? She said that she met Shep on Raya, which we knew.

Speaker 4 Um, she said that she also also met Whitney on Raya, which we also knew.

Speaker 4 She did show a screenshot of her and Whitney's conversation on, she goes, I won't say the platform of which I took this screenshot because you can't take screenshots on Raya.

Speaker 4 So she was like, I won't say the name. She like shows up like, it's another,

Speaker 4 she likes taking, using her phone on another phone to like show the proof. It was very all.
I'm sure she's going to get kicked off Raya after this.

Speaker 4 But so she said that basically all Whitney ever said to her was like, how are you doing? And she said, I'm good. How are you? And he never responded.

Speaker 12 Didn't Sierra say something like she accused him of being a catfish or something?

She said that he looked very different in person than he did on his Rya party.

Speaker 12 But didn't she say her mom was like the biggest South Southern Charm fan ever?

Speaker 4 Her grandmother.

Speaker 12 But she doesn't know who Whitney is.

Speaker 4 I don't know if she's never sat down and watched an episode with her grandmother.

Speaker 12 It'd be a little embarrassing for Whitney to like have a photo that's 10 years old on his dating account, but like.

Speaker 4 Well, also, Whitney was drunk on his episode on the last episode saying that she matched with him first when it actually came out that like he direct messaged her they were never a match.

Speaker 4 So he pursued her for it to go nowhere. Yeah.

Speaker 12 I mean, not surprising. I'm just saying that's not really a catfish.

Speaker 4 But his picture didn't match the person. If he used a picture from 10 years ago and he's aged faster and 10 years ago.
Yeah. It's not a catfish.

Speaker 14 I feel like I'm catfishing when my hair is bleached in any of like my hair

Speaker 4 pictures.

Speaker 12 But again, it's not it's not catfishing. Catfishing is when you're pretending to be someone else, like showing a picture.

Speaker 4 No, it's just if it's not what you look like currently today.

Speaker 12 That's just you being really insecure. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And delusional. At the same time, if you're wondering why it doesn't work out, it's because you don't look like your pictures.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 Fine, but you're, you're, you know, it's like gaslitting. No, it's not.

Speaker 4 But okay.

Speaker 12 Catfishing is pretending to be someone you're not.

Speaker 4 But it also is using a photo that is not what you currently know. If you gained 200 pounds and you used a photo of yourself at like 100 pounds in college, like that's catfishing.
Oh my God.

Speaker 4 It's definitely

Speaker 13 the same person you were 10 years ago.

Speaker 4 If you post a picture without a beard and then someone sees you with a beard and they're like, oh my God, that's literally not the same person.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I understand it's misleading. That's not, I'm just saying, it's not catfishing.

Speaker 4 It's just oh my gosh, he's very like it's definitely

Speaker 4 yeah, Webster's dictionary and Nick's brain.

Speaker 12 Words don't have meaning anymore.

Speaker 14 What do you think Mike White thinks about this catfishing situation? Because he did model the family, the southern family in White Lotus after Southern Charm characters.

Speaker 17 Oh, did he?

Speaker 4 He did.

Speaker 14 The youngest son in that family said, Mike told us to go watch Southern Charm. In fact, Jason Isaacs, who plays the dad, modeled his whole accent after Thomas Rabinel Thomas Ravenel

Speaker 4 Congressman who literally just dropped out of the race for governor of South Carolina granted the same week that he submitted himself he took himself do we have that guy's voice Thomas Ravenel find it it's just a it's it's a very old I usually am not very like strict on country accents southern accents but honestly his was very good it so it like sends a chill up my spine of like making me feel like some of the ones in like land man are not very good and it kind of this guy this congressman was on watch what happens live yeah he was in he was in the first five seasons of southern charm oh oh oh my god the mannerisms are so similar too i don't think so i just think that you know again i've said this innumerable times the uh age difference is so great crazy that you know it's like my preacher told me you know and he's very you have a preacher t-raf yeah i do yeah

Speaker 14 and you know maybe it was a sex therapist because he said look okay wow well pretty good pretty good accent isn't it he really didn't model it it and the fact that jason isaacs is like a bravo girly a bravo girly but also like he is shakespearean british yeah and then he's able he's from england yeah he plays um the dad

Speaker 4 lucius mouthfoy and harry potter he was also in the mel gibson's the patriot as a british soldier he's a bad guy british british see like that

Speaker 4 That's an amazing actor that you're able to like switch your accents like that. I mean, like I was just saying, there's in Landman, it's kind of hard to listen to.

Speaker 4 And maybe like texan accents are different than like alabama georgia accents i don't know i mean obviously that's what i'm used to but it's that's hard to listen to and like and and the and these people on white lotus's family even the mom yeah they all crushed that that southern accent parker posy like like the fan the sec family of it all just like sends me i'm like i know these people so well yeah and i am like patrick's hair crushes it's it's honestly yeah that's very well casted yeah it's really good did you see rachel's uh brownie commercial do you think matt james saw it you think he's off the grid i think he's off the grid yeah but he's not off the grid enough to not post do you think craig's gonna get some kind of commercial i don't know i mean arianomatics got the durcell and um the battery

Speaker 4 rachel's getting scandal treatment yeah after matt james paige is always going to be booked and busy yeah she will that will never change in paige's life no matter what happens like she will always be booked and busy but i don't i i don't know if he will probably not probably not my gosh probably not i mean rachel's she did a ad with brawny the like uh paper towel brand says she's saying she's like cooking from home now because she doesn't have to pick out the perfect dinner spot anymore because obviously they were like food influencers and we're going to all these restaurants together and she has someone who can she can always depend on when life gets messy and then she introduces like brawny mascot

Speaker 4 it was a really great really great ad the brawny guy is hot what would craig's commercial be did they ever did they have any? Like, like, obviously, they had the going out.

Speaker 4 Ariana and Tom Sandoval had, she was like, I picked up all the fucking groceries and batteries for you. Like, that worked for her.
He likes bees.

Speaker 13 He can do like a honey commercial.

Speaker 14 Honeycombs.

Speaker 4 Like, now I'm no longer sharing my bees. I can just, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 13 Don't like female queen.

Speaker 14 Corona, Corona commercial. He's sitting on a beach because he doesn't have to go to the city anymore.

Speaker 4 There we go. With Peyton Manning.
Yeah. There you go.
Pretty good.

Speaker 12 I don't think he's going to get one. Yeah.

Speaker 4 No. But he does have a successful pillow company with two storefronts, and he just opened up a successful bar.
Everyone will be fine. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Oh, Leah Meester is a...

Speaker 4 Yes. Nobody wants this season to cast Leighton Meester, Adam's wife, in the upcoming season.
And I think everyone's really excited about it. Cute.
It's really exciting.

Speaker 4 I saw their little bit at, what was the other one? Sag Awards last night.

Speaker 4 SAG Awards last night, where obviously we have Kristen Bell, who is voice of Gossip Girl, and then obviously Leighton Weister, who plays Blair Waldorf.

Speaker 4 Wait, Kristen Bell was

Speaker 4 the narrator of Gossip Girls. Really?

Speaker 4 Did you know that? Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 4 That was her.

Speaker 16 Yeah. XO, XO.
So Gossip Girl.

Speaker 4 Last night at the Sag Awards, they did a bit. They did a bit.
And I mean, it was honestly like so cute to see them back. Now we see that duo.
So I'm really excited to have them.

Speaker 4 And obviously to have Jackie Tone back on our television will be very nice.

Speaker 12 When is season two supposed to come out? Are they filming right now?

Speaker 4 They're doing like table reads and stuff now, so I'm sure it will be. Yeah, it's gonna be for a whole year.

Speaker 13 Jackie said it would be like spring, summer, I think, when she was on the show.

Speaker 4 That's crazy. I love that a show called Nobody Wants This when it's like everybody wants this.

Speaker 14 It's kind of a perfect name for a show

Speaker 14 because you're only setting yourself up to like defy expectations.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Did you see that Ashley Darby, the Potomac housewife, hard-launched her divorce?

Speaker 14 This is the funniest thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 13 Like she's been teasing this divorce for so long and then finally

Speaker 14 the concept of hard-launching your divorce divorce after teasing it first off.

Speaker 4 Oh, wow. She really did.
Hard launching. A whole photo shoot.
Hard launch. You know what that reminds me of? What? Monica Garcia when she did her like burn book photo shoot or whatever.

Speaker 4 And Monica did it first. And she like did her.
Yeah. I'm here for it.
Do you think they actually put words all in that stuff?

Speaker 14 Oh, no, you don't. No, it's a stock photo.

Speaker 4 You can see the Photoshop data. That's Canva.

Speaker 14 That's not even photoshopped. That's Canva.

Speaker 4 Look at it officially and how it goes off the page.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Got to respect Ashley. She's a hustler.

Speaker 4 She is. By all means.
Celebrate it if you're happy about it. I guess.
You see that Corey Bierman and

Speaker 4 Kim Solsock. Yes, they are divorced again.

Speaker 4 I've had to check out of that whole.

Speaker 13 Every week is a new headline. I'm just selling.

Speaker 12 I'm always calling the cops.

Speaker 4 The police are always calling.

Speaker 13 She was selling her Christmas trees that are worth like thousands of dollars the other day. Like, there's always something weird going on.

Speaker 4 New body cam for the future.

Speaker 13 I'm pretty sure the house just went into foreclosure.

Speaker 4 Like, she moved out and stuff, but who knows i just wish she'd quit playing and just come back to atlanta when does the new season start march 9th we'll be covering that i just got shown i just got fed a um clip from rahas of atlanta and it's when phaedra was pregnant oh and they were all like when are you due and she was like

Speaker 4 I don't know, sometime in July. I think I'm just going to have this baby right now.
And they were like, aren't you five months? And she's like, yeah.

Speaker 4 And they were like, you can't have a baby at five months. She's like, the doctor said I could.
They're all like, that's fine. I don't know how that works.

Speaker 13 And also there's the table of like Sheree and the woman woman being like, so she must be lying about this.

Speaker 4 And it's like, what purpose does she have lying about her baby coming? Oh,

Speaker 4 good. All right.

Speaker 12 Well, up next, we have Vanita from Southern Charm. Let's find out if she was actually drowning.

Speaker 4 There's nothing worse than waking up on a beautiful sunny day and finding an unexpected breakout or feeling like new signs of aging are showing up on your face.

Speaker 4 Trying to find a great dermatologist is already a feat of its own, let alone finding time to make an appointment. That's where apostrophe comes in.

Speaker 12 Feeling confident in your skin starts with getting expert care, whether you're dealing with acne, signs of aging, or dark spots. Apostrophe helps you get access to the right treatment for your skin.

Speaker 12 We know how difficult and challenging it'd be to book an appointment with a great dermatologist or even any dermatologist. You're always waiting weeks in advance, not with apostrophe.

Speaker 4 Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne and dermatology treatment for your unique skin.

Speaker 4 Through apostrophe, you can get access to oral and topical medications that use clinically proven ingredients to help clear acne.

Speaker 4 Simply fill out an online consultation about your skin goals and medical history, then snap a few selfies, and a dermatology provider will create a customized treatment plan just for you.

Speaker 4 Apostrophe offers access to prescription treatments for all types of acne, from hormonal acne to facial acne, even back, chest, and butt acne. You can treat breakouts from head to toe.

Speaker 4 And one of the best parts is that you don't have to make an in-person appointment. You know, it's hard to get out of the house these days, and you don't have to go to the pharmacy.

Speaker 4 The pharmacy always takes forever, and apostrophe just sends everything right to you.

Speaker 12 We have a special deal for our audience. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophy.com slash V-I-A-L-L.
When you use our code V-I-A-L-L, that's a savings of $15.

Speaker 12 This code is only available for our listeners to get started. Just go to apostrophy.com slash V-I-A-L-L and click to get started.

Speaker 12 Then use our code V-I-A-L-L at sign up and you'll get your first visit for only $5. Thank you, Apostrophe, for sponsoring this episode.

Speaker 4 As a parent, Branch Basics gives us peace of mind that we're creating a safe environment for our family.

Speaker 4 Branch Basics understands that your home should be a place of health, not hid and harm, starting with your cleaning products that we use.

Speaker 4 We started with their premium starter kit as an ultimate solution for saying goodbye to toxins and embracing human-safe cleaning products.

Speaker 4 The truth is, many conventional cleaning products are filled with harmful chemicals that silently compromise your health.

Speaker 4 These products can irritate your skin, disrupt your hormones, and even pollute the air inside of your home, creating an environment that's anything but clean.

Speaker 4 Branch Basics is here to help you make the switch.

Speaker 4 Their premium starter kit includes one powerful concentrate that replaces dozens of toxic cleaners, making it easier than ever to detox your home, from scrubbing counters and washing laundry to cleaning your bathroom and even rinsing produce.

Speaker 4 This plant and mineral-based formula does it all without harsh chemicals.

Speaker 4 It's free from fragrances, parabens, endocrine disruptors, and synthetic preservatives, so you can trust it safe for babies, pets, and anyone with sensitivities.

Speaker 12 Switching to Branch Basics isn't about cleaning. It's about creating a healthier home.
Making 2025 the year you toss the toxins and start fresh. with Branch Basics.

Speaker 12 Their premium starter kit is your first step toward a cleaner, safer, and healthier home. Say goodbye to harmful chemicals and hello to a peace of mind with Branch Basics.

Speaker 12 Make this year the year you say goodbye to toxic products right now our listeners get 15 off their premium starter pack kit using our code viall at branchbasics.com that's 15 off your order at branchbasics.com with promo code viall make 2025 your cleanest healthiest year yet with branch basics

Speaker 4 vanita hi vanita how are you how are you so good

Speaker 12 what a beautiful background you got there and you look absolutely stunning too by the way thank you i'm in my kitchen right now.

Speaker 15 I figured this would be the quiet space that I have.

Speaker 4 So colorful.

Speaker 12 Well, let's just get right into it. First question is,

Speaker 12 was that a real drowning situation where Craig had to save you? Or was that a stage scene? Because the people are, you know, kind of up in arms.

Speaker 12 It felt like a little like, you know, staged and you're smiling.

Speaker 4 You know.

Speaker 15 You know, a lot of people do crazy shit for reality TV. I'm not one of them.
I was factually drowning.

Speaker 4 Oh, shit.

Speaker 4 Unfortunately. We are glad you're okay.

Speaker 4 Unfortunately, yeah. Like, I, in fact, had water in my lungs.

Speaker 15 Yeah, and I'm smiling because, like, it's like comical the things that people have the audacity to say about what we do on TV. You know what I mean? They're like, oh, she's drowning for a storyline.

Speaker 15 You think I would risk my life that my mother spent 32 years raising me with on her TV show?

Speaker 4 Absolutely not. Well, I think you were real.

Speaker 12 fake drowning, but fake fake drowning.

Speaker 12 You're just like, you never fake drowned as a kid, you know, just wailing your arms.

Speaker 4 Nick just needed attention. He had 10 siblings.
So Nick was like, I'm drowning. Someone save me.
Maybe that was it.

Speaker 12 What attracted you to JT in the first place? I think a lot of people are curious.

Speaker 15 Yeah, his personality. He's a really good stand-up guy.

Speaker 15 And I think that the version of himself that he puts on for TV is the complete different person, a completely different person that I get behind closed doors.

Speaker 4 When you're watching the show back, are you seeing the like contrast between the person that you have a personal relationship versus what we're seeing as viewers?

Speaker 4 And like, what do you say to him if he asks you about it?

Speaker 15 I don't know. It was kind of hard to go because this was the first year that like we really kind of put our friendship out there for the cameras.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 15 And like, so I haven't really been able to address him about that because we're, you know, not good.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 12 So did he do something to you that are like, were you guys in any type of exclusive relationship? Did he cheat on you? Did like, what, what happened?

Speaker 15 No, we we weren't ever in any exclusive relationship. We were dating.

Speaker 15 And I.

Speaker 12 What does that mean? I'm curious. I only just like in 2025 terms.
Like I know some people say dating, some are not exclusive, but like, yeah, what, what does dating, but not exclusive mean to you?

Speaker 15 So we were just like figuring out because we came to this crossroad of like, okay, do we like actually like each other or do we like each other because we like work together?

Speaker 15 You know, like how you have those like work relationships. You're like, oh, like that person's hot.
But then like when you're not working anymore, you're like, oh, El, what was I thinking? Right.

Speaker 15 So like we would go out almost every night to dinner we would do lunch we would do work meetings together and um like really like shoot the

Speaker 15 and we did that almost every day for about two two months

Speaker 15 were you guys also hooking up no and everyone keeps asking me that and like no like sorry no i'm just yeah like there's no apology needed i just you know like

Speaker 15 when you're dating sometimes you are sometimes you're not you know so i just really set that boundary like right away we're like we're just gonna date like normal people see if we like each other nothing physical none of that and see like okay is it more than just like oh i think you're cute you think i'm cute like do we actually really deep down like like each other gotcha um and we date for i guess like two months and then the super teacher drops and this woman decides to annihilate me on social media that he was dating that I was unaware of and basically like calls me out of my name.

Speaker 15 And I was just like, hey, like, I don't don't know what's going on with this I need to put a handle on it and he was like I can't do anything about it and then I was just like okay I need to take a step back from this because yeah want to let me get annihilated by why couldn't he do anything about it was it was this woman real like did he was he in fact dating her

Speaker 15 okay yeah and he was in fact dating her and he was like there's nothing i can do about this and i was just like that was my first like red flag of like okay like i have to take a step back from this like i need a moment and i took a step back and me taking a step back lasted for about a week um he texted me the night of my best friend's wedding.

Speaker 15 I didn't text back because I was at the wedding, and I went to text him back the next day.

Speaker 15 And before I could even do that, he posted that he was in a relationship with this girl and it was complicated. I'm like, oh, okay, cool.

Speaker 15 So, I found out when the rest of the world found out that he had a girlfriend.

Speaker 4 Damn, yeah. So, wait, did he?

Speaker 12 So, it's what you're saying, it sounds like he faked dated you for the show while also having quote unquote a real

Speaker 12 relationship outside of the show. Is that how it felt to you?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 15 And like it was kind of like a slap in the face.

Speaker 15 People say the same shit about me. Manita doesn't show much.
She doesn't share much about her life. She's so protective over herself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 15 And I'm like, okay, the one year I decided to like let it rip, I literally get played. I'm like, okay, this is why I don't.

Speaker 15 It backfires on me.

Speaker 4 Damn.

Speaker 4 Okay, because timeline-wise, were you dating during the filming of the show or is this like post-filming, but before the teaser came out? And then there was a girlfriend that was shown on the show.

Speaker 4 Is this the same person? Yeah.

Speaker 15 Wow. It's the same person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all this was in post.
So like while we were filming this year, like, you know, just teetered about showing our friendship more.

Speaker 15 And like, we were flirting back and forth, like, you know, shooting the shit.

Speaker 15 And then after cameras dropped, like, that's when we started to like actually date when I came back from New York for the summer.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 15 And then he quits and then he still comes back to do a green screen and then enters this girl into the situation. So he made his decision on his own.

Speaker 4 And what was your reaction to his announcement of leaving the show and then also coming back to film green screens?

Speaker 15 My reaction to him quitting was actually I was devastated for him because at this point, him and I hadn't spoken in two weeks, I think. So like I just didn't know where his head was at.

Speaker 15 Like in prior his head was not in a good space whatsoever. So like I was equally mad, but like nervous for his well-being.
I was just like, okay, like, what does he got going on?

Speaker 15 But then I had to remember he's choosing to not talk to me because he's dating someone else. So like, I got to let that go.

Speaker 15 But my phone blew up that morning. I'll never forget it.
I was sitting at the Ritz Carlton and Emilia Beach or Emilia Island. And like, I think he posted it at like 6, 30 in the morning.

Speaker 15 And I get a call from the network at like 7.15.

Speaker 15 And they're like, hey, like, do you, cause everyone always knew to check in with me on him because we were so close. They were like, hey, like, do you know what's going on? Like, where is he?

Speaker 15 Like, why is he saying this? I was like, Your guess is just as good as mine. I have no idea what's going on.
Like, not a single clue.

Speaker 12 What is the rest of your casting? Not a single.

Speaker 15 Oh, they didn't care because at that point, they were tired of him. You know what I mean?

Speaker 12 Like, well, not about him, but more about

Speaker 12 you, him, and kind of just kind of playing you.

Speaker 15 A lot of them were disappointed. Like, if

Speaker 15 I had Madison being like, listen, I don't like him, but like, if you're liking him, like, cool, like, he can hang around us. Like, if I got Madison to do that and you still played me,

Speaker 4 like,

Speaker 15 I literally was risking friendships that I had cultivated and built and like spent a long time trying to get them to where they are now.

Speaker 15 And I'm just like, guys, like, you know, like, as my friend, like, I just need you guys to have my back with this. Like, I know you don't like it, like, but like, I like it.

Speaker 15 And, like, I'm happy, whatever. They're like, fine.
And then I turned around and like got played by him. And it was very, uh,

Speaker 15 yeah, I don't think anyone was happy.

Speaker 12 And why does Madison hate him so much?

Speaker 4 Because he did the whole like, we, you wanted to sleep with me.

Speaker 15 You wanted to have have an affair on your beautiful husband i assumed it was deeper than that or she only hates him because of that i mean that's deep enough like you're literally going out to the world and saying that i had an affair you're trying to insinuate an affair when that didn't happen meanwhile like madison was going through god knows i shouldn't say god knows what because i know exactly what but like her life was flipping upside down and you're out here screaming about oh yeah like an affair like don't do that yeah so back to i'm just curious though because back to like when we first started talking you're like, you know, TV JT is different than real life JT, but it kind of seems like maybe it's not, you know, because like it almost feels like real life JT is just as smarmy and backstabby as

Speaker 12 TV JT. I mean,

Speaker 12 what is the difference now that you are kind of saying his atrocities out loud?

Speaker 15 I, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 You got me there.

Speaker 15 I got to be really honest. I have no idea.
And like, I, I have to think about it now. Like, was he playing me? Like, was he showing me a version of himself to get me in good graces?

Speaker 15 And this is actually who he is in real life is the TV version of him. And I got the version that I thought was the real version, which it might not have been.

Speaker 4 So is the first time you confront him about all of this at the reunion? Or have y'all had a conversation before?

Speaker 15 First time I confront him is at the reunion.

Speaker 12 Watching this season, it feels like he kind of has been ostracized by the rest of the cast. The guys really want nothing to do with him.
Madison wants nothing to do with him.

Speaker 12 And it sure looks like, especially after hearing your story now, it sure looks like his big plan was to like make sure that you were cool with him because no one else was and no one else would fuck with them.

Speaker 12 And we know like, you know,

Speaker 12 you can't create a scene if you have no one to do a scene with. And it was like, well, at least I have Vanita.
And it seemed like he almost used you to have like a seat at the table.

Speaker 12 And his quote unquote quitting the show was more like him trying to get ahead of being fired because everyone's like, I don't want to fuck with this guy anymore.

Speaker 15 Yeah. I, you know, and I looked at it as he was trying to get ahead of how he was going to look now that I knew he was dating someone else the whole time we were filming.

Speaker 15 And after filming. So like he was trying to get ahead of like, oh, I don't want to look the bad guy.

Speaker 15 Like, let me go ahead and put this girl online and be like, oh, it's complicated, which he's now changed that. caption four times to um to what back into what

Speaker 15 he'll take out the hashtag is complicated he'll just be like oh like lost like lost times or favorite moments or whatever. Like, it's insane.

Speaker 4 Who is this person? They just showed like a clip of her when they, when Bonita and JT had, like, I mean, his response to you that I can't do anything about it is crazy.

Speaker 12 We could do something about it. He could have been like, because she came after you, right?

Speaker 15 Right. And, like, called me a rat and was like, I don't want me to have a little rat friend.

Speaker 4 Who?

Speaker 4 Crazy.

Speaker 4 Me? You wrote it with two big teeth and long tail?

Speaker 15 absolutely not. So, yeah, and he was just like I can't do anything about it.
And it was just like, all right, cool. Flag number one for me was just like that was crazy.

Speaker 15 But everything else is their best friend. You are not going to defend your best friend against someone who's speaking ill towards them, no matter who the other person is.

Speaker 15 You're not going to say anything because you don't have any control over that. You can't do anything about it.

Speaker 4 All right, cool. Did this get brought up at reunion? Yes, it did.
I was about to say, because this would be a huge issue for me.

Speaker 4 I'm just like, bro, you like, I stood stood by your side through all this and you can't be like, hey, babe, but maybe don't call her that. I don't know.

Speaker 15 Yeah, like, don't talk about her like that. Like, you might not like her, but like, what I won't allow you to do is to speak ill about her.
Yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 12 Like, or, yeah, he could have been like, it's not her fault. I like, she's, she has a whole different impression of my intentions.
It's my fault. I did this.
Like, that's on me.

Speaker 12 You should be bad at me. Not Vanita.
He could have done that. Damn.

Speaker 4 He could have done fucking something.

Speaker 4 More than nothing. Yeah.
how are you feeling about sienna these days i don't

Speaker 15 is shep okay is his is his heart healed do you know yeah you know i think shep's doing good he posted this um video i guess that was like a few days ago after like the episode aired or whatever and he was just like hey guys like don't like beat her up and don't be mean to her and blah blah blah and like i responded to with some hearts and he was like was that okay and i was like no this is good like this is what a real man does like you're not even dating this girl anymore, and you're still trying to defend her against the evil people that are probably going to attack her on social media.

Speaker 15 Like, you're doing great.

Speaker 12 I don't think they should be attacking anyone, but like, Shep with Shep, like, Shep looked the most vulnerable this episode.

Speaker 12 She'll come and go, you know, like, she just doesn't like Shep, but this is more Shep's fault.

Speaker 4 Like, what is she doing?

Speaker 15 Like, I don't think I like you anymore. Like, I'm, you know, I'm so I brought you here, but like, I don't think this is going anywhere.

Speaker 15 I hope you guys have a good time, but like, after this, we're just not going to talk. Like, it's so simple.

Speaker 12 Imagine being in her shoes for anyone sitting in this room and you too, Vanita. It's just like, imagine kind of dating someone.
You kind of like them. You're not sure.
You're on the fence.

Speaker 12 Like they seem nice. You've had some good moments.
He's like, I'm going to bring a whole TV crew with me on our next date.

Speaker 4 She's a fan of the show.

Speaker 12 Fine, whatever. But either way.

Speaker 4 She wants, right? She wants to be on the show.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Fine, but then maybe it was too much for her and they show up and she's getting a little cold feet. He's mean like sending her text about the freckle on her lip.

Speaker 12 I'm just saying, it's a little intense.

Speaker 4 She was like, you're a friend.

Speaker 15 Like, it's not like, it's not like we start the season and on day one, we're like, yeah, we're going to the Bahamas in three weeks. You know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 15 these things take time. So, like, when the idea was brought up and she was still feeling some type of way about Chef, like, she didn't like him, just say, hey, like, maybe this isn't a good idea.

Speaker 4 And we heard several FaceTimes of her being like, when are you coming to the Bahamas? Are you going to come to the Bahamas? And he was like, yeah, I got to figure out how to get out there.

Speaker 4 Like, she was inviting them. Sure, but he doesn't really take a hint you know he he does and she is the first person to click on bravo when southern charm starts airing i mean calling

Speaker 15 when you watch the show is wild but i don't you know that's a whole nother debate wait saying that again well she she referred to whitney as a catfish because apparently they matched or something and i was like don't you watch the show yeah she watches it but that's why she went for one and one said no and then she went for the next easy look easy available option shut up i'm so sorry so did you did you see this like uh 27 part series she did on tick tock no i keep refusing to look

Speaker 4 i mean honestly

Speaker 4 yeah honestly everyone in the comments is like seven parts for what like you've said literally nothing so it's there's really not much there so she won't be back next season i mean she said more there than she did when we were filming for three months yeah anyway

Speaker 4 good luck

Speaker 4 there's a clip of you crying towards the end of the season. I don't know if it's like a final dinner.
Can you tease anything that's coming up?

Speaker 15 Tasty made me cry.

Speaker 4 That's it. Yeah.
I can't answer it.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 15 That was a lot of moment for us.

Speaker 4 What is your take on Craig and Paige breakup? Like, how is Craig doing?

Speaker 4 Do you think it's being handled well?

Speaker 15 I don't even know how to answer that, to be honest.

Speaker 15 I think Craig is doing Craig.

Speaker 4 so you know what's that mean yeah

Speaker 4 i don't know if that's a dig or support

Speaker 4 either

Speaker 15 craig and i aren't that craig and i aren't that close i mean i can't really speak to he's doing you know what i mean and like when i say that craig is doing craig like craig is not really opening up and speaking about it to us as a group okay so we kind of get anything about the relationship from what we see online.

Speaker 15 You know what I mean? It's not like he's confiding in, at least he's not confiding in me.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 12 do you think, just from what you're seeing or just from what you know of the man, because you know him better than we do. Yeah.
Do you think his heart is still broken or do you think he's milking it?

Speaker 12 Both. From your perspective, how do you think he's milking it?

Speaker 15 I just think that like she's not running around doing all these like PR moments about it. She's just trying to like let the situation die.
And like he's still doing that.

Speaker 15 And it's just like, I, we understand like your heart's broken, but like it almost seems like you're dragging this out longer than it needs to be.

Speaker 15 Like just let it be like as clean of a breakup as it can be. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Are you referring to him going on Tamerall? Like, cable networking? Well, I mean,

Speaker 15 he's done a, he's done a slew of other things too. You know what I mean? But it's just like, at what point are you going to allow yourself to heal to not continue to do these things?

Speaker 15 You know what I mean? Like, the person you want to listen to right now,

Speaker 15 she's, she's not.

Speaker 15 You're not together anymore. It's okay.

Speaker 4 Do you think he should

Speaker 12 let everyone know what Paige is or isn't doing?

Speaker 4 Oof.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I think he should. Only because

Speaker 15 he is deeming her to be attacked by not. So like speak your truth and let it be known the same way you're speaking your truth about everything else.

Speaker 12 What if he doesn't know?

Speaker 15 Then stop answering like you do.

Speaker 4 Ooh. Okay.
Curious Benita. Are you and Naomi on good terms?

Speaker 15 Yeah, I saw her last week.

Speaker 4 Is there any chance that she might come back to the show?

Speaker 15 I don't know. I don't really ask her about it.
You know, I just feel like if she wants to, she will.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 15 And it'll be exciting, especially now that her and I are in such a good place. You know what I mean? But I, you know, I don't, I think she's past it.
I think she's past it.

Speaker 4 Tell her we miss her. Are you a fan of White Lotus?

Speaker 13 I am.

Speaker 15 I did not watch last night's episode, though. I missed it.

Speaker 4 Did you hear that the creator kind of told to watch Southern Charm and base?

Speaker 15 Yeah, and Cam posted it. Cam posted it on her Instagram this morning.
And I was like,

Speaker 4 wait, what?

Speaker 15 There's no way, but she made a good point. She was like, they were talking about him having like this North Carolina accent, but it sounds just like T-Rap.

Speaker 15 So it's like, those two things don't add up. It's like, it's based off of us in South Carolina, not North Carolina.
Like, stop that.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. Wild stuff.
That's crazy.

Speaker 12 Vanita, thanks so much for taking the time and opening up about your relationship with JT and your thoughts just on your cats in general. Excited to see things shake out at the reunion.

Speaker 12 Hope it goes really well for you and hope that you get the justice that you deserve.

Speaker 15 Hope so.

Speaker 12 Do you need us to start any type of hashtags or like anti-JT things going into the reunion?

Speaker 4 Like, or petition, perhaps t-shirts, team vanita? We can start a revolution.

Speaker 15 I like, I was like,

Speaker 12 like, he played you. He played you.

Speaker 15 Yeah, but like, I can't get somebody back. No, it'd be great.

Speaker 12 Like, we'll, we'll come for JT's throat.

Speaker 12 And then when he says, and he was like, hey, what's this all about from your interviewing? And you can be like, sorry, I can't do anything about it.

Speaker 4 Huh? We like that, don't you?

Speaker 15 I kind of like that. Yeah.
I'm like, okay, okay.

Speaker 4 We can come over.

Speaker 12 Fuck JT. All right.
Vinita, have a great day.

Speaker 12 Best of luck at the reunion. We appreciate your time.

Speaker 4 Take care. Bye.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 Bye. Oh, what a sweetheart.
She's so cute.

Speaker 4 She's that was awesome.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 14 We have the same take on Paige and Craig.

Speaker 4 This obviously isn't Paige and Craig, but Sierra could have never been more relatable this episode. What part?

Speaker 13 Her trying to devour Wes at the table or her talking to Wes after?

Speaker 4 No, no, no. Her reading him to filth and then being like, kind of want to make out with him.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 She's like, I don't want to hug you. She's like, is this toxic of me to like actually want to go make out right now? And like, no, it's not.

Speaker 12 Read him to films, whatever. She just called him a beta.

Speaker 14 Exactly. She called him a bitch ass.

Speaker 13 Beta move is kind of wild.

Speaker 14 Beta, bitch ass.

Speaker 12 She's calling him not a man. A loser.
To be clear, like a loser, you know, like.

Speaker 4 No, it was definitely really fucking mean.

Speaker 12 It's giving, it's giving, I'm not over it, and I still care. And, like, yeah, it's just mean.

Speaker 4 Yeah. She's just trying to be mean.
She definitely does still care. Like, obviously, she like

Speaker 4 some emotion in her.

Speaker 12 Let's give her a brownie commercial. 100%.

Speaker 4 She showed emotion in her ITM. She got upset.
And like, so she clearly does still care.

Speaker 4 I think it comes from, and she like said this, of like, they were such good, like good friends before, like, it started off in such a friendship. And, like, she is just, like, let down by

Speaker 4 like,

Speaker 12 she has every right to be hurt. And it's, you know, it didn't work out.
I really feel for that.

Speaker 12 But, like, I'm having a hard time understanding how she can come for him at the reunion like she did last season. He clearly wasn't expecting it, didn't anticipate it.

Speaker 12 You know, Paige and Sierra came for his throat. He looked the way he did.
It wasn't great. All of Summerhouse Nation was coming at him.

Speaker 12 And then, like, and then he's not supposed to, what, speak on it?

Speaker 4 Or were you going to be a little bit more like that?

Speaker 4 They went and had dinner. They obviously got on good terms.
No one was at that dinner but the two of them, but they both left feeling good. He didn't

Speaker 12 sound like he felt good. He did it.
Maybe as far as their relationship goes, but like publicly, he wasn't.

Speaker 4 And then he went to publication. I'm sure.

Speaker 4 I'm sure that if they would have had that dinner, he would have left it at that dinner then like and would have not done a New York Times article or whatever. Like rubbed her so wrong.

Speaker 12 I think his it's not like she got his permission to come at him at the reunion, huh?

Speaker 4 That's what a reunion is: it's addressing things.

Speaker 4 He said nothing, he refused to answer any of her questions or to give his feedback on anything, exactly like he did when she brought it up at the table.

Speaker 4 And then he sits there and says nothing, but then is ready to go run and tell a two-page fucking expose on a relationship.

Speaker 12 He's not allowed to speak on it

Speaker 14 to the person. Yeah, speak in the time that you're spoken to instead of like going to.

Speaker 4 Why am I owed an explanation when I don't give a fuck and I didn't ask for it? But she's not owed an explanation.

Speaker 4 He can go tell the New York Times I know, so my opinion of Wes is different, but he doesn't give a fuck about the one person it actually matters to. We'll continue this heated debate momentarily.

Speaker 12 We have Alex from The Bachelor with us to talk about her recent exile from well, not really the mansion.

Speaker 12 She was kicked out of the castle in Scotland.

Speaker 12 All right, let's bring her on.

Speaker 14 Trader's influence knows no bounds.

Speaker 4 If you've got a thirst to put the world on notice, Sprite's for you.

Speaker 4 Whether you're shooting a masterpiece on your phone, filling notebooks for sketches, or turning your bedroom into the booth, keep going. Obey your thirst.
Sprite.

Speaker 19 On eBay, every find has a story. Like if you're looking for a vintage band tee, not just a tea, the band tee.
You wore it everywhere.

Speaker 17 Until your BFF stole it.

Speaker 21 Now you're on eBay.

Speaker 19 And there it is. Same tea from the same tour.

Speaker 21 The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you, especially on eBay.

Speaker 19 Where else can you find that mint trading card you searched everywhere for? Or your first car, the one you wished you'd never sold?

Speaker 4 It has to be eBay.

Speaker 19 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story. eBay, things people love.

Speaker 5 If you can't compare your users' users workflows before and after adding ai how do you know it's even paying off pendo agent analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved so you know what's working and what to fix start improving agent performance at pendo.io slash podcast that's pendo.io slash podcast

Speaker 4 Alex. Alex.

Speaker 4 Hello, how's it going?

Speaker 12 Good. How are you?

Speaker 4 I'm good.

Speaker 15 How are you guys? I'm all right.

Speaker 12 Did you burn the first impression rose?

Speaker 4 Did I burn it?

Speaker 4 I'm so, no, honestly, I'm so ADHD.

Speaker 15 I feel like I lost it the first night. I was like, where the hell did I put that rose?

Speaker 12 And then Grant found out about it and sent you home. Is that what happened?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Good.

Speaker 15 Good joke. No, everyone was like keeping their roses and like souvenirs and I left with like the same suitcase.
I went in, and that's it.

Speaker 12 I have no idea where any of the roses I ever received on The Bachelor are so right lately no i don't i think i attempted to save some i bet your mom has them next to like your high school medals or something

Speaker 12 alex what happened you you were like you know first impression rose you got the first one-on-one he took you to the mall at the center

Speaker 15 my local mall i know i live in la now and i was like oh i went to target a month ago here yeah

Speaker 4 like the battery center on all of them we couldn't do century city Americana. Yeah.
No Grove. So I live right by the Century City.

Speaker 15 So that I love that mall. Beautiful mall.
Beverly Center, on the other hand, is

Speaker 15 okay.

Speaker 4 It's certainly a mall. Yeah.
Yeah, I thought they closed it. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Anyways, what happened in your mind, Alex? Where did it go wrong?

Speaker 15 Honestly, that will be a really great question at Women Tell All because I wasn't walked out. So I had no, I have no idea.
I went into it thinking we had a great connection.

Speaker 15 And I was like, hometown, here we we come.

Speaker 15 And I don't know.

Speaker 4 I really don't know.

Speaker 12 You were shocked. You were surprised.
You were caught off guard.

Speaker 15 100%.

Speaker 15 100%. And I think my reaction at the end will also tell that I was very shocked.

Speaker 12 Oh, yeah. We saw it.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 15 You can tell I was not very emotional as a person. I was like always crying for everything.

Speaker 12 Who surprised you the most in terms of the ladies who made it to hometowns? And why was it Zoe?

Speaker 15 You're putting words in my mouth. I would say, and I mean, I think it's a bit of a shock for everybody, Zoe, because just because she didn't have a one-on-one, I don't know what their connection was.

Speaker 15 So I don't want to speak on that. But I think because she didn't have a one-on-one, we all kind of, you know, expected, well, it's probably going to be someone who has had one.

Speaker 15 So yeah, that's probably who. But I think looking back on screen, I'm like, oh, they did have a connection and she shared a lot about herself.
So.

Speaker 12 So, you know, having been familiar with that atmosphere in filming, you know, sometimes we we saw Zoe make a lot of waves early on, ruffle some feathers, and then it became the Carolina show.

Speaker 12 And then, like, Zoe kind of almost took a backseat a little bit with the drama. I'm curious, from what you remember of the filming, was that like how it played out?

Speaker 12 I only asked because like sometimes if there's drama early on and then you find out, like, or the producers find out, or the show finds out that the, like, say, Grant in this case, like, has a thing going with Zoe, they might, might they might be like hey zoe like stop i don't know like stop pissing so many people off because like

Speaker 12 did you did you see zoe kind of cool things off or were we just not privy to some of the drama that she was involved in

Speaker 15 which which which is more accurate um i want to say the first one where i think zoe from the get-go um yeah ruffles some feathers for sure um but i don't think it was intentional i don't think with any of the girls anything was intentional i think in that setting everything is so heightened um and sometimes it's just like to take a second be like, Is this really like guys?

Speaker 15 It's like outside of the real world, would we really act like this?

Speaker 15 No.

Speaker 15 Um, so I think with Zoe, yeah, she really took the back seat, and I think it kind of probably felt nice for her for a little bit that she wasn't like the center of intention attention

Speaker 15 in that realm, you know, and that. So, yeah, for sure, that's how it panned out.

Speaker 12 Carolina, what were your thoughts on her? Was she misunderstood or just a just really obnoxious energy sucker?

Speaker 4 Nick, nick, nick.

Speaker 15 Again, this has been my stance from the get-go. I want to say that things were blown out of proportion for sure.

Speaker 15 Do I think that's, you know, she may have threw someone under the bus and we're missing a lot of context and people, you know, see Rose as this, you know, negative who wanted to like like up Carolina by saying that.

Speaker 15 We're missing a lot of context.

Speaker 12 Can you fill in some of that context for us that we might be missing?

Speaker 15 I think it'll be more, it's not my place to say because I'm not, you know, Rose and I'm not Carolina. So I think at Women Tell All.

Speaker 12 Oh, that's the worst answer ever, Alex. That's an absolute terrible answer.

Speaker 15 I know, I know, I know you wanted, that's what you wanted to hear. But no, um, I just think that things were just blown out of proportion.

Speaker 15 I think someone wanted, you know, maybe their ego was hurt a little bit.

Speaker 15 And instead of approaching it, maybe I think two girls with grant would have been the best decision versus one girl, because then I think the other person could have defended herself.

Speaker 15 I think that's more what have

Speaker 4 been The better.

Speaker 15 It's two-on-one versus. Right.

Speaker 12 Cause then it comes off as like, okay, we're two girls that were maybe hurt or, and then we're coming to you versus like putting one under the, you know, honestly, though, I blame Rose, though, because had Rose had just peaced out in the middle of a night, she might have gotten a two-on-one the next week.

Speaker 4 You know, maybe.

Speaker 15 Who knows? I think, I think that's not how it, I, yeah.

Speaker 12 Well, how did it go down, Alex? Let us know.

Speaker 4 You're allowed to, you're allowed to say things that we didn't get to see.

Speaker 15 I think the way it looked on TV, I think, you know, she, and again, I'm not Rose, so I don't know her, like her experience, but I think it did taint her experience a little bit because she wasn't coming from a place of malintent.

Speaker 15 Um, and I think, like they said on TV, they were comparing notes, and someone got hurt. Um, and they wanted to also defend their names, and I get that.

Speaker 15 And I think after that, it set back Rose with her relationship with Grant for sure and her whole experience.

Speaker 12 Will you be looking to develop a relationship with Carolina post-show?

Speaker 15 I think, you know, we all have different personalities.

Speaker 15 We both live in LA. We haven't seen each other yet, and it's nothing against her or anything.
I just think maybe our personalities wouldn't mesh the best.

Speaker 15 And also, I'm a little bit like, you know, I'm from the get-go. Rose was my girl.
So not to be petty, but I think, you know, out of respect for Rose.

Speaker 4 In Scotland, obviously, there was another kind of big blowout at the group date with Carolina not really involving herself. And then, of course, Grant pulled her and it caused a

Speaker 4 big fight with Dina and Serafina. And I think you kind of even got involved at the end of it.
Like, do you

Speaker 4 a little bit. I don't remember that.
A little bit. Do you think that

Speaker 4 the whole kind of fight was like Dina said that because Grant pulled her, she should have said like, no, like, let's cut our time short because there's so many other women here.

Speaker 4 Like, we shouldn't talk this long. Do you stand by that she should have done that? Or are you like, listen, he pulled her, have all the time that you want?

Speaker 12 And it's like, like, would anyone actually give up their time?

Speaker 15 That's the thing. It's like, there's two perspectives.
And I'm always, I hate being a Switzerland because I can't.

Speaker 4 We hate it too.

Speaker 15 If I were in her shoes and I feel just the type of personality that I am, if I knew the girls were already kind of upset with me.

Speaker 15 I would have been like, you know what? I've had enough time. Let's, I don't want the girls to be even more upset at me.
Let's, you know, let's cut it short.

Speaker 15 But in her shoes, I think she was coming from a place of they don't really necessarily vibe with me. So why would I care? And I'm here for Grant.

Speaker 15 So I think it depends what type of personality you have. And I think Carolyn is a bit more like a go-getter, maybe.
And

Speaker 15 yeah, I think that's how it went down. But do I think it was a little bit disrespectful? Maybe.
But then again, if

Speaker 15 You know, we're all here for a reason. So if you can have more time with Grant, why not?

Speaker 15 Oh, it's tough because i know i wouldn't have done it but i don't know what her perspective was her point of view with like all the girls not being the biggest fan of her so it's like you don't think you would have been like yes grant let's talk for as long as possible like i'm here to like

Speaker 15 marry you if you think you would have been like yes but then i this is a me issue it's like i also think like I care a lot about what you know my friends think and then I feel like you need the girls on your side or not on your side but you need them throughout this experience for it to go smoothly and like on your mental health.

Speaker 15 Like if I didn't have some of my girls there, I would have left week one for sure.

Speaker 15 So, which is like also very, like, I can empathize with Sem with Carolina of, you know, her experience was probably terrible, right? Regardless of, you know, she put herself in that situation.

Speaker 15 I think she, her experience was probably terrible.

Speaker 15 So I think you need to balance both. You need to balance like, you know, I think our conversation was, I think quality over quantity, right?

Speaker 15 So if I feel like, hey, we've had a really great conversation and we've been talking for a long time and like the girls need also their time as well, that's how I would approach it.

Speaker 17 Gotcha. Okay.

Speaker 15 You're full of shit.

Speaker 12 No, no, I don't think you're full of shit. I think, yeah, I get it.
You're being very safe and, you know, you don't want to ruffle any feathers, you know.

Speaker 15 See me, I feel like I'm very

Speaker 4 polite. Sure, sure.

Speaker 15 I was really happy for Zoe that she stole my strategy and had more time with them.

Speaker 4 I mean, why are you happy for Zoe?

Speaker 4 Go on.

Speaker 15 I was upset. I was upset because I got a concussion and I was like, all of that for what?

Speaker 12 I mean, did you get a concussion?

Speaker 4 The bull riding.

Speaker 4 Remember, Zoe stole her method of going with over the horns or Alex would have won. But I'm also very competitive.

Speaker 15 So it's like, honestly, if rolls were reversed, I probably would have stole her strategy too.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 I think you should slash her tires.

Speaker 4 I'm kidding.

Speaker 12 Do we have any more questions for Alex before we let her go?

Speaker 4 If asked to be on the beaches of Paradise, we'll go.

Speaker 15 I think so. I think, you know, I watched Paradise for the first time a month ago, and it's definitely more my speed.

Speaker 15 I'm more of like a, not saying that I'm not serious, but I'm definitely more of like a goofy, um, chill person. That sounds so pick-me.
I'm still goofy.

Speaker 4 Um, but it's more of my

Speaker 15 definitely. Yes, I think that would be very.

Speaker 12 Have you been scouting any of the boys from previous seasons?

Speaker 12 Any biceps you've been really into or, you know,

Speaker 12 six packs that you're like.

Speaker 15 Once you see them on pictures and you're like, uh, and then you see their personality and you're like,

Speaker 12 we won't hold you to anything. You know,

Speaker 12 you still can reserve the right to get the ick from any of them.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 15 Like the,

Speaker 15 I was going to say something. Like the piano.

Speaker 4 I'm not a big piano person.

Speaker 4 Your piano's an ick for you? When he was singing and that's what he wanted out of me. He wanted something spicy the piano thank you

Speaker 4 the ick when you play the piano

Speaker 14 if he had played piano in century city

Speaker 15 exactly it's just and i'm gonna be very honest with that is that everyone knows from you know back home in canada that my biggest ick is someone who when we're all having a great time and someone pulls out the goddamn guitar yeah and it's like you have to let them finally and it's like we're having a good time why i don't even care if you're good singing no it's like why are you yeah and then on top of that it was the first time that i was having time with Grant, right?

Speaker 15 It's not like at the end of the season where you have a bit of a relationship. So, you know, and to get started, I was like, okay, you got this.
Let's, you know, but I did a pretty good job.

Speaker 12 That was the, that was your kiss.

Speaker 4 Honestly, Grant knew it.

Speaker 12 You, he, you, you can't hide a nick, and he felt it and he knew it. And you're like, she doesn't appreciate my music.

Speaker 4 Honestly, Alex, thank you for your service.

Speaker 15 Right? I think it is.

Speaker 12 It's a teachable moment for Grant.

Speaker 4 I know.

Speaker 15 And it would have made different at the end of the season where I know him versus like a stranger at this point singing to you i was like

Speaker 15 but i feel like the song was good the song was good what do you think of his his his like song song party girls yeah party girls did you listen to that i think it's pretty good i think if it is solid yeah pretty solid honestly for like um you know just starting out i think it's catchy it's catchy i don't want to like it but catchy i shake my ass in a club to it I have a friend for my opinion.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 15 I feel like if Chris Brown was to come out with a song like that, girls would be like, yeah.

Speaker 12 yeah i don't know why i said chris brown he looks like chris brown as you see it now from a viewer standpoint uh we're spoiler-free obviously i know you are too who do you think are his uh two frontrunners

Speaker 12 i

Speaker 4 i think i'm gonna wait on that i'm not too sure what's your opinion is that a terrible answer it's the worst answer alex the absolute worst i think that letia and juliana are his final two i think letia wins I think Juliana wins.

Speaker 12 So what is your I can't tell the difference between Juliana and

Speaker 12 the lawyer?

Speaker 4 Dina? Dina? Dina.

Speaker 12 Can't tell the difference. How? Because one has blonde hair, one has brown hair.
They seem like the exact same person in me.

Speaker 4 You literally just.

Speaker 15 People are saying about Dina and Natalie. But Juliana and Dina's personality.
Well,

Speaker 15 they're pretty different, I feel like personality-wise.

Speaker 15 I think frontrunners would be, I want to say Juliana and Latia as well, just because of, you know, what I've observed and their connection for sure.

Speaker 4 Yep. See, I knew it.
All right, Alex.

Speaker 12 Well, thank you very much for your time. Good luck on the beach.

Speaker 12 Wait, did you answer the question about what guys you're into? Yeah, wait, hold on. What guys?

Speaker 15 Oh, what guys I'm into.

Speaker 15 So

Speaker 15 I think Tanner's cute. I think Tanner's cute.
I think

Speaker 12 the guy who's hanging out with all the Vanderpunk people?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Who went on a date with Julian Huff? I don't know any of the reality stuff.

Speaker 15 I think he's cute. And a lot of people think that me and Jonathan's personality would match well.

Speaker 4 But then I'm like, would we just be

Speaker 15 too much? Maybe. I need someone, I think.

Speaker 4 Jonathan's very charming.

Speaker 12 He's very charming. Good looking guy, too.

Speaker 12 May I ask? How tall are you? How tall are you, Alex?

Speaker 15 You cut out. I like a tall.
She's five, but I mean,

Speaker 4 five, five. Why are you yelling at me?

Speaker 4 She keeps cutting out. She's like five.

Speaker 4 I'm five.

Speaker 4 all right yeah medium king great five five perfect all right

Speaker 12 yeah i love that all right well good luck to you and jonathan on the beaches of paradise okay thank you so much

Speaker 4 all right take care all right bye alex

Speaker 4 thank you so much

Speaker 12 I almost had to side with Carolina when

Speaker 4 Dina was going after her.

Speaker 12 When Dina was going after her, it was just like, what she's supposed to what? Give up her time? I mean, listen, the whole pulling aside and her crying and

Speaker 4 being the damsel in distress obviously that was obnoxious but like you're on the bachelor yeah you like you want to be like no grant I don't want to talk to you all the other girls are here let's not talk like that's crazy that they want her to do that agreed on that and all of them being like well I would it's like no you wouldn't

Speaker 12 you know I thought the most interesting thing Alex said when she was like you really need your girls to have a good time here

Speaker 12 yeah sure but it also is giving like don't ruffle the house because they'll bully the fuck out of you yeah I mean, that's, that's my point.

Speaker 12 You know, it's just like, you know, like, yeah, you have to make friends, but like, clearly this group of friends, like the, and I don't even think it's any one person.

Speaker 12 It's like this, the house becomes this organic living thing where like the house is only caring about like no one winning, everyone having fairness, not ruffling feathers.

Speaker 12 And the house, like they, the house makes the rules just basically go after anyone who is like not playing by the the house's rules and it's kind of bullshit I think they have they have to keep Carolina in check though because even like when Juliana was going in the helicopter she's like I'm not jealous Alex is like you had a private jet like she just makes comments and like Carolina is very insufferable be to be clear like that's she is doing the most

Speaker 12 Yeah,

Speaker 4 the sitting at the table, eating alone, pouting. Like, it's definitely, she's definitely putting on the damsel in distress act.

Speaker 4 But I do think the fact that these women expected her to turn down a conversation or cut a conversation short when Grant did pull her.

Speaker 4 I'm with Dina.

Speaker 13 I'm Adina on this one. It's crazy.
It's like if you're sitting in silence with the assumption that you're going to then prompt the conversation, that's her like taking him, you know?

Speaker 13 Versus like if she was genuinely just to the side, like doing her thing, sure.

Speaker 4 Having a fun time alone. And then she just kept being like, well, how's your night? How's your, since you're not asking us how our night is, how's your night?

Speaker 4 It's like, well, y'all aren't fucking friends with me. I don't care how your night is.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I didn't really understand that line of questioning. How's your night? So, how was your night?

Speaker 4 It's like, how was your chat with Grant? So, how are, and she's like, it's good as it could have been. And they're like, what the fuck? Good as it could have been?

Speaker 4 It's like, well, they all are attacking me.

Speaker 12 They were asking her as if she was talking shit on them. And

Speaker 13 she wasn't. She was heavily implying that I don't feel supported and welcomed here.

Speaker 4 Her last two conversations were about like other women and situations. So for them, they're just like, so is there going to be something else tonight?

Speaker 13 Everything about Carolina is premeditated.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 13 And I love her, but like.

Speaker 12 She deserves all the criticism she's getting. I'm not, we're not defending Carolina.

Speaker 12 We're criticizing how the other women are handling someone who clearly is obnoxious and not, you know, but like they're also making her point, Carolina's point, which is like they're justifying her being obnoxious for them being mean girl.

Speaker 12 I mean, they are like the house.

Speaker 4 They are definitely being mean girls.

Speaker 14 Yeah, I think they're operating in a position where they already dislike her.

Speaker 14 So now it's like when you know you don't like someone and every and you know there's that one person that everyone doesn't like you operate differently with them where everything they does piss you off versus the things that actually deserve to piss you off piss you off.

Speaker 4 Right. So then why wouldn't Carolina just continue to piss them off? Exactly.
She's not going to become friends with them. So it's like, why would I respect you now? You don't fucking respect me.

Speaker 16 Damage is done.

Speaker 13 Even Dina, like your best friend in the process, now she's like, girl, you're doing too much. Yeah.
So that's when you know, like, it's not an us issue. It's a you issue.

Speaker 12 She's definitely doing too much. It was just more.
That's an insane ask to be like, yeah, you shouldn't, you're not.

Speaker 14 For an attorney, it was a weird argument.

Speaker 12 Basically, they were saying, prove your loyalty to us, the group, and turn down your conversation with Grant, and then we can talk.

Speaker 13 I thought it was like, be respectful to your best friends, the girls that haven't had a friends.

Speaker 12 That's how they sold it.

Speaker 4 Not car workers. That's true.
Those girls are not best friends. Dina was her best friend in the process.
Not really. Okay.
At all.

Speaker 4 Yeah, she stuck up for her one time and was like, I see my younger self in you or whatever. Like, definitely.

Speaker 13 But also for Carolina to sit there and like on the log and not say like anything, I'm like, girl, you're like wasting all the time and then not even like saying anything.

Speaker 13 Like you're being even more dramatic.

Speaker 4 And to Zoe's point, the only person who should be throwing a little temper tantrum is the one person who didn't get a one-on-one this entire time. Like I for sure thought she was going to go home.

Speaker 4 I will say it was pretty fucked up of Grant to give Carolina so much security sitting on that rock being like, I'm locked. She like gave so many times where she's like, I don't think it's me.

Speaker 4 I don't think it's me. I think I should go home.
And he's like, listen, I'm locked in. Huh?

Speaker 4 Then sends her home the next night. Huh? That's crazy.
But it's giving Parisa like, here, I thought about you. I got you

Speaker 4 way more. To a higher extent, for sure.
But I'm just saying that I'm like, the bait and switch is crazy.

Speaker 4 Like, okay, like, you're secure. You're special.
And then you're going home tonight. So much more respectful if in that moment where she's like, I don't think it's me.

Speaker 4 I think I should go home, where he would have been like, listen, like. I agree.
Maybe there has been, you know, and she could have been like, okay, I'm going to go.

Speaker 4 But instead, he's like convinces her to stay just to send her home himself.

Speaker 4 I think in Grant's defense, I think the people running this show are very they're in charge yeah because I was like I feel like the producers or whomever is in charge of everything I'm like you would never have gotten that like I guess I'm the villain guess I'm crazy like the whole like after like you already know somebody's spiraling I'm like you know that the drama is going to ensue at this after party when Carolina and Grant were having a conversation I

Speaker 12 he said something I wish I wish I had the tape I think she was like begging him to send her home. And he was like, there's like a time and a place for that.

Speaker 12 And it told me that Grant was like, didn't feel like he had the green light to send her home.

Speaker 12 In that moment, like it seemed like Grant was like, oh, you know, we'll see at the Rose ceremony kind of thing.

Speaker 12 And I think, you know, for different leads and different seasons, there's been a different environment and a different collaboration.

Speaker 12 You know, like when way back when, when I was a bachelor, it felt like it was like we were making a show together. You know, they were like, you know, it was kind of a negotiation.

Speaker 12 I'm like, help me find love, so to speak, and I'll help you make a great TV show.

Speaker 12 And it doesn't seem like there's a class, you know, it's like, you're our bachelor. Here are the rules.
Do this, do this. We'll make sure you find love at the end.

Speaker 12 But like, you know, that's the vibe that they're giving.

Speaker 4 Do you think the franchise is tanking?

Speaker 12 Do I think the franchise is tanking? I mean, like, it's obviously going through a bit of a shift. I mean, there's a lot, you know, what was that?

Speaker 4 Was it deadline that wrote that report?

Speaker 14 Yeah, it was a deadline exclusive.

Speaker 12 You know, the report that's out there right now, it's a lot of former employees basically airing grievances about the people in charge now. Like, I know the people in charge.

Speaker 12 I know the people who left the show. I mean, the reality is, is like, you know, what I've heard it described to me is like Game of Thrones.

Speaker 12 It's like after Mike Fleis was like, kind of what left the franchise, there are a lot of people who felt passed over.

Speaker 12 And they're the people in charge now.

Speaker 12 I think there's some hurt feelings with some of the people who got passed over. Yeah.
And yeah,

Speaker 12 it's a lot of politics. And then they're, you know, one of the people in charge came from Bachelor, Canada, and other people have a certain feeling about that.

Speaker 12 But I think in the past, like when I was on the show, the sense I got from the producers is that it was more collaborative,

Speaker 12 that there would be a lot of different meetings, a lot of different inputs. You know, the rumor is it's less collaborative now.
Who knows?

Speaker 12 But in fairness to the people in charge now, you know, obviously a lot of the people speaking are the people who are no longer at that company. And, you know, business is business.

Speaker 12 But isn't this stemming from like jen trans season and kind of the whole like afr of it all where they forced her to watch that and she was like do i have an option well that was one example well the article kind of led telling that story if you guys don't remember jen trans afr where they made her watch you know the breakup or the engagement video with what's his name and yeah i mean to like they claim that jen knew what did what has jen said about it is she even off can she speak on it or is she still under contract i don't know what she what jen asked jen asked jesse Palmer, do I have a choice?

Speaker 13 Well, that was during AFR.

Speaker 12 She could be, that could have been a performative comment.

Speaker 12 I think they probably gave it a heads up, but they might not have. I mean, they've definitely, it's reality TV.

Speaker 12 Like their justification when it comes to blindsiding contestants and even blindsiding their lead, their argument is none of you are actors. We're not here to see you act and perform surprise.

Speaker 12 We're here to see your authentic reactions to these situations you signed up for. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 You know, and so there's a lot of times where they, they did blindside people at their, you know, and producers have been getting criticisms since the beginning of the show.

Speaker 12 So they're kind of numb to it or immune to it.

Speaker 12 So 50-50, whether they told her or not, but it does sound like with that story, there was a lot of people who like a lot of other producers who thought this was a terrible idea. They were dismissed.

Speaker 12 They were ignored allegedly by the people in charge.

Speaker 4 Do you still have like respect for the franchise or are you kind of respect?

Speaker 12 What do you mean?

Speaker 4 Well, we seem to kind of just like defend them a lot. And I know, obviously, it's like you knew a lot of the people who were there.
You're close to a lot of the people who were there.

Speaker 12 I mean, I guess I always see both sides. I have more friends who don't work there anymore than I have friends who work there.
And I, you know, I'm aware of a lot of the frustrations.

Speaker 12 You know, like they say, business is business. So, like, I can see why they're no longer friends with the people still there.
You know, I wouldn't be,

Speaker 12 so to speak. On their other side, I don't know.
Like, I wasn't there when the decisions were made or who got promoted, who didn't get promoted, but like, yeah, someone won, you know?

Speaker 4 Do you think that they're like trying to revamp everything with pausing Bachelorette and then Bachelor in Paradise was on pause last summer and now we're finally getting it back?

Speaker 4 And it feels like the schedule of this season of Bachelor is moving a lot faster. So also correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 4 Like, do we think that they're trying to speed up the process in six episodes that we're already?

Speaker 12 That's another thing, too. Yeah, because it was always like, we're at hometowns already.

Speaker 12 And literally when I was watching it last night, I was like counting in my head thinking all right like i remember filming it's just like well what week what what week of filming was that when we were they're cutting a week short i'm pretty sure like andy season we were in marseille france week five we were in italy week six and then we were in brussels week seven that was the week before hometown so this is week six so they skipped a whole week of dating And like, didn't you, like, didn't they used to have episodes where like, whether it's two-on-ones or like there might be like a week where nobody goes home or something like that?

Speaker 12 Always someone goes home.

Speaker 12 There's definitely two-on-one some you know they're getting to hometowns a week faster than they normally did pre-covet yeah i haven't like kept that close of track on it but listen budget cuts are all over hollywood they've drastically cut the budget of the bachelor even though it's relatively cheap to make compared to other shows and so like i think it's just a product of budget cuts really okay yeah i don't know like joey's season was wildly popular and they kind of shit the bet after that you know there was the whole like maria casting drama like you know clearly jen wasn't someone they had planned for.

Speaker 12 That was pretty obvious, you know, whether it was like, cause, you know, who else was being considered of the Maria? Daisy. Daisy.
So like Daisy couldn't because of her health. She was a fan favorite.

Speaker 12 Maria was a fan favorite. Something happened with that.
So then they like kind of had to pick Jen and they sold it as like, oh, your first Asian bachelorette.

Speaker 12 But like clearly, I don't think the show deserved any credit for that because it was like. Jen was not even in like their a top choice for them.

Speaker 12 So they threw Jen almost to the wolves, having like not really casted for her.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 12 You know, no, like with Grant, they announced his being the bachelor sooner. They did the same thing with Rachel Lindsay with an earnest attempt to try to cast people like authentic connection.

Speaker 12 Yeah, where they might be an authentic connection with Grant and some of the women, just the way they're looking with Rachel. And with Jen, there was, they're like, all right, Jen's your bachelorette.

Speaker 12 We're filming next week. Yeah.

Speaker 12 You know, and so coming off the hype.

Speaker 4 I remember it was a lot of the men like kind of coming out and being like, I was

Speaker 4 here for Maria. I was here for Daisy.
Like, we thought it was going to be someone else.

Speaker 12 So it just really put Jen in an unfortunate position her show didn't perform that well like and not surprisingly because there was no hype or no momentum there's no like they didn't really promote her season right and then Grant kind of the same thing you know they they seem to not really be investing in in these for whatever reason I don't know why that's that's an ABC warn you know ABC is the one who markets the show Warner Brothers the one who produces the show for years there's always been conflict in terms of who gets to do what There's like an internal conflict between ABC and Warner Brothers, and then there's already an internal conflict between like Warner Brothers and the people making the show.

Speaker 12 It does seem to be a huge mess right now.

Speaker 4 Do you think that seeing the success of Golden Bachelor kind of is making them look at the normal Bachelor different?

Speaker 4 Because it's like Golden Bachelor is so like wholesome and it's new and it's a different concept, whereas like Batcher kind of has been running the same concept.

Speaker 4 It's the influencers on The Bachelor versus the people on people genuinely looking for love and a connection on Golden.

Speaker 12 I think think they only care about the ratings okay yeah i don't think

Speaker 12 it's his business right and i think the ratings of golden have been very have done very well that being said i don't know what if it like has the demo like overall ratings aren't as important as the demo ratings demo ratings are like ages between like 18 and 45 or something like that you know so i don't know how the golden franchise performs in that demo over like say their bachelor is in a number one performing show it always has been and then you know bacherette again it's not a good sign but again i think it speaks to like a lot of the internal turmoil going on there, a lack of like

Speaker 12 unity. I think there's a lot of budget cuts.
I think there's that too. So, you know, who knows? But I wish that wasn't going on because clearly it seems to be affecting the quality of the show.

Speaker 12 The show hasn't been. It hasn't been as good as it used to be.
I mean, I'm enjoying this season, but like, it's just, it's shorter.

Speaker 12 There's not a lot of compelling storylines, you know, like, I don't know, just.

Speaker 4 It doesn't seem as genuine. It's very seems like it's screen.

Speaker 4 It seems scripted, you know, know, it seemed because people, so many people know like what works and what doesn't work, that it's like, it seems so scripted that they do the same thing every day.

Speaker 12 Criticism I've heard from people who used to work there is that the people running it now are very by the there's there's not a lot of creativity it's very not scripted but very staged very structured very planned out, very inauthentic, very like, they, you know, the producers basically, the people they talked about in this Dave London Lenn story, the two in charge, they're making all the decisions.

Speaker 12 They're planning the show beat by beat, and they're leaving very little for authentic moments and authentic reactions. That's the feedback I've heard from people who have since left the show.

Speaker 12 Whether that is, you know, disgruntled employees or true, you know, remains to be seen, but because there is a lot of people who have left on bad terms from that friend.

Speaker 4 I do think more and more is just going to continue to come out as like, I do think and I hope that gintran is able to speak about that afr at some point in her life has she not spoken about it i don't believe she has last time we talked to her it was right after afr when she was just like i tried to call devin right before that happened to like kind of see what we were going to talk about he had the moment to like address stuff with me and then didn't even add afr like but i think she obviously i mean she's under a contract i think like once that contract's over maybe she'll feel more comfortable to be like listen like they threw me to the fucking wolves and they set me out there and on live television they were like hey watch this back knowing that the person beside me was like not the person in that engagement video and i didn't want to do it i told you know like i'm curious to hear her side i'll tell you this much if they did tell her they 100 came to her and sold her on the idea of why it would be great for her regardless of whether it was great for her or not yeah and then after they did whatever deed they do they will follow up with the lead they'll check in on their mental health they'll make sure they're okay they'll tell them it went cover their asses

Speaker 12 they'll cover their asses They'll tell them it went great. And then they'll be like, you can't tell anyone we told you to say that.

Speaker 13 Yeah. She did tell us it was a whole lot to process.
And that's why she was like, Dancing with the stars is my way of like, I'm busy. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Dancing with the stars might have been also her, like, hey, listen, go do this and be happy.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Or now she's pay off.

Speaker 13 She is happy with a partner now. So

Speaker 12 from Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 4 Yeah. On eBay, every find has a story.

Speaker 19 Like, if you're looking for a vintage bante, not just a T,

Speaker 19 the bandy, you wore it everywhere until your BFF stole it.

Speaker 21 Now you're on eBay.

Speaker 19 And there it is. Same T from the same tour.

Speaker 19 Where else can you find that mint trading card you searched everywhere for? Or your first car, the one you wished you never sold?

Speaker 5 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 9 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved, so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 6 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 11 That's pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 4 Should Should we get to some Love is Blind? We should.

Speaker 14 It's interesting. I'm so much more invested in Love is Blind than The Bachelor of like people being real.

Speaker 12 There's more real conversation. I mean, to that point, is like The Bachelor has lost some of his authenticity.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, let's just get into it.

Speaker 17 Dave is worst.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Dave is worst.
Yeah. Dave, fastie stinkies.

Speaker 12 Can we just go over the story?

Speaker 13 Dave heard from one of his friends, and Lauren keeps asking, let me talk to them. Who are these people? And he won't say.
So Dave heard that Lauren.

Speaker 12 So already we're suspecting if these friends aren't real.

Speaker 13 No, I think they're probably real, real, but I think she's purposely not letting Lauren talk to them.

Speaker 14 Yeah, he was like, they're going to come over

Speaker 14 and his sister.

Speaker 12 Dave's sister?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 15 Dave's sister, who he won't shut up about, yes.

Speaker 13 For context, if you remember, when they were in the pods, he had asked Lauren, like, oh, when was the last time you were in a relationship?

Speaker 13 And it was like six months, like within the six months or like soon before she got on the show.

Speaker 13 He then starts this rumor on camera when they're together in person after saying, well, I heard you were like in a serious relationship with this guy and then broke it off with him to come on the show.

Speaker 14 And I knew this guy or like knew of this guy.

Speaker 12 She told him in the pods.

Speaker 4 She told him in the podcast.

Speaker 14 No, no, no. She said she had an unserious relationship recently before coming into the podcast.

Speaker 13 And also, none of this is right before the pod. So that's the part where he's pitching it as if it's like

Speaker 4 he literally said, You were with him the night before you left. And she goes, No, I wasn't.
And he was like, Well, that's what my friends say. And she's like, I wasn't.

Speaker 4 And her, her girlfriends are like, She was with us. And he's like, I just don't know what to believe.
That's crazy.

Speaker 12 I think it's crazy and insane that these people all agree to do this thing to begin with. Sure.
Go on love is blind.

Speaker 12 I just think if you found out someone was like hooking up with someone on a regular basis, like and you found out from friends that other rumors, then like, I don't think that makes him a bad guy for like not knowing who to trust.

Speaker 4 No one's think he's a bad guy, but I'm like, you can't pretend to be precious about this when you got signed up for a show where you're engaged to someone you've never met in 30 days.

Speaker 4 Like, but you're precious about the idea that she's been involved with somebody in a small town. Yeah.
Like, you're literally signing up to get married in 30 days to someone you've never met before.

Speaker 4 Of course, shit's going to come out in 30 days. And she looks at him and she goes after, she's like, I'd love to talk to your friends about this.
Like I'd love to get on the same page.

Speaker 4 I'd love to, and he's like, you know, defend myself.

Speaker 4 Like, maybe. And then he's like, maybe we shouldn't.
And then she's like, well, can you please like stay here tonight? I feel really disconnected from you. And he's like, no, I'm going to go.

Speaker 4 Like, he doesn't give a fuck about her. He obviously clearly is texting his friends being like, dude, like, just like say anything so I can get out of this relationship.
Yeah, he's using it.

Speaker 4 He's trying to do it. He's trying to get out of the relationship and he's he's doing it by humiliating her on national television.

Speaker 12 If you started dating someone who was actively on a regular basis sleeping with someone.

Speaker 4 Then don't go on a reality TV show to get married in 30 days. Like you're allowed to have some questions.

Speaker 4 He can have questions for sure. He's not even listening to her.

Speaker 13 He has to listen to the answers.

Speaker 4 He's like, but he doesn't believe her. Why wouldn't he believe her? He has no reason not to.
Maybe he's her fiancé. They met two weeks ago.
Exactly.

Speaker 4 Says exactly. You wouldn't believe your your fiancé who was the only person in the relationship that you're talking about.

Speaker 4 You're going to believe your friends who are like four steps away from that relationship?

Speaker 12 I mean, I don't know who these friends are or how they know this or whatever.

Speaker 12 I don't know who these friends are.

Speaker 4 Wouldn't you want her to go face to face with those people being like, what do you know about me that I don't know about myself and allow me to defend myself?

Speaker 4 And instead, he goes, I'm going to keep you separate. Because I don't see it.
I don't know how he's handling that.

Speaker 12 But that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 12 I'm speaking on the fact that, like, finding out that someone in this situation had a fuck buddy for two months right before, how unserious was it?

Speaker 12 You know, like, how, and I know she said it was unserious, but like, I'm just saying, like, what else? Sex is like, it's not a nothing thing.

Speaker 4 Nick, what else? What do you mean? To men, it is absolutely fucking nothing. Men can go around sling and dick and not give a flying fuck.
Some of them,

Speaker 4 some of them, it's not. So to her, it was not.
To her, it was just sex. She clearly, she said that.
She's like, black and white. She's like, listen, it was just sex.

Speaker 4 Imagine if like me and you in the beginning,

Speaker 4 we start dating.

Speaker 4 And then like your friends are like, yeah, dude, like she, I'm friends with like some guy that she like used to hook up with and like she was hooking up with him like right before y'all started dating.

Speaker 4 And you were like, hey, I have a question about this. And I answered it.
And then you're like, I just don't believe you. Like, that's crazy.
My friend said, and it's like, were they in the room?

Speaker 12 I probably, I definitely wouldn't say, I just don't believe you.

Speaker 4 That's pretty much what he's saying.

Speaker 12 I might, if, if you were telling me something different than like people I trusted who was like, Yeah, so I found this shit out about you, it would probably affect me, it would probably rattle me.

Speaker 12 And if,

Speaker 12 if I had a decision about whether we had to get married two weeks from that, my judgment might be clouded.

Speaker 4 I just think it's insane that he thinks he's in a position to judge her for being a single woman.

Speaker 12 Why is he is he definitely judging her

Speaker 4 twenty thousand because he is because he's trying to act like in today's day and age that she's doing something that she might have to do with the money.

Speaker 12 This is the other way around. He's saying, like, how y'all would be not the same

Speaker 4 before you go on the show you're single you can do whatever the hell you want it's like people on bachelor like before you before you start filming you are single you can do whatever you want like you can fuck around with 20 people you can fuck around with none but like she's single and the fact that he's being like you shouldn't have been having sex with someone before you came here is crazy yeah also let's read between the lines like whoever this person is that she was involved with is low-key a cloud chaser like the friends were like, he came after me, he came after her, like, and then he finally got Lauren.

Speaker 13 And then it's like, I don't know if you've seen now, he's posting like mock photos of him as if he was casted on Love is Blind and like releasing like text messages with producers to bring him on to confront.

Speaker 4 Yeah, like she's and it's clear that he will say anything to just like rattle someone's cage. It's clear he doesn't want Lauren and this guy to get married.

Speaker 4 It's clear he doesn't want success for Lauren. So he's like, oh yeah, dude, like, yeah, we were like fucking like the night before she left, dude.
And like, she was like, is he saying that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, to his friend, allegedly, but we haven't talked to him. We haven't talked to him.

Speaker 12 So if this loser guy, fuck buddy guy is out there saying these. So he's making up rumors, allegedly.
And he's telling these friends of Dave's who, like, fine, they don't know who this guy is.

Speaker 12 They're just like, yeah, this fucking guy is out there saying he, they did this. I'm just saying.
Dave's immediately like just supposed to like blindly believe her no matter what.

Speaker 12 I'm not saying he's handling it well at all.

Speaker 12 And I don't like that he abandoned her that night, but the fact that he is supposed to just like dismiss it outright and pretend he doesn't have questions or pretend he doesn't care, you know, like I just think is unrealistic in this setting.

Speaker 4 I think if it was a, if Lauren was like, listen, yeah, I was in like a full-on relationship. We'd been dating for six months and I like actually broke up with him to come on the show.

Speaker 14 Issue.

Speaker 4 Big red flag issue there. She's like, yeah, I was like having sex with someone.
Like, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 12 I got some problems with that i just feel like you know yeah i understand it's 2025 and i understand hookup culture is like a far it's more acceptable it's more prevalent but like sex is not an a meaningless thing to a lot to a lot of people if you were just like having regular sex with someone leading up to the show regardless of your who you are but you can't the other person has a right to sex means to her i don't know what a sex means to her but it it might mean something to dave i'm just saying like and i know he's a man he's the one who wanted to fuck her the first night in the in the vacation it just means shit to him.

Speaker 4 That is true.

Speaker 13 That is true.

Speaker 4 He's asking everyone. Are you fucking? Are you fucking? Because we're not.

Speaker 12 I'm just saying sex isn't meaningless.

Speaker 4 But he's going around asking every other couple, is it, are you guys having sex? Because I'm not. Like, I just want to know if you are because I can kind of gauge where I'm at.

Speaker 4 So I'm like, no, he's not precious. He's only precious about it because it affects him or it's his way of getting out of things.
It's, he's not being honest.

Speaker 4 If he was actually taking accountability or being like, I want to figure out where this is, you would have her sitting down with the friends that are talking shit and we would conflict resolve this.

Speaker 4 But instead.

Speaker 12 What if his friends don't want to be on the show?

Speaker 4 His friends do. He was literally like, I'm going to text them to not come because I don't want them to sit face to face with you.
Why would that be? They were going to have a full-on dinner with him.

Speaker 4 I just think. And he pulled the plug.

Speaker 12 I'm just like the idea that like fucking is meaningless and sex is meaningless.

Speaker 4 But now you're crazy to me. A macro thing where we're talking about two people as to how.

Speaker 12 You guys are just like, oh, it's fucking. It's nothing.
They weren't serious.

Speaker 4 People, it's nothing. We have three people in this scenario.
We have Lauren. We have this guy that she was fucking.
And we have Dave. And to all three of them, clearly, sex is meaningless.

Speaker 4 Dave wanted to fuck the first night he met her. So clearly, it was like meaningless to all three of them.

Speaker 13 Not to keep it going, but you're definitely right that Dave is intimidated or insecure about Lauren in that relationship. But I just, I don't think that's her fault necessarily.
But he doesn't.

Speaker 12 I don't think it's her fault. And I think he's definitely handling it poorly.
I just think he is allowed to feel a certain way.

Speaker 12 about the fact that she was in a physical relationship shortly prior to coming on the show. And I don't think that makes him a bad guy.

Speaker 4 I think if she asked him, when was the last time that you shared any moment with any other woman? Moment? It would be probably the day before I left for the show.

Speaker 4 I don't think it would be months or years prior to him going. I don't think his life stopped when he got the opportunity to maybe potentially go on Love is Wine.

Speaker 12 I don't know, but when people ask my advice before going on these shows, one of the things I say the most to them is be very careful about like your dating life and leading up to going on these shows because it will come up.

Speaker 12 And like if a show is about getting married or engaged, like your intentions about like taking this experience seriously will be questioned. It's like it always has been.

Speaker 4 I don't think Lauren has shown us any inkling that she hasn't taken this seriously.

Speaker 14 I don't think that they're going to make it.

Speaker 12 I don't think they're going to make it either.

Speaker 13 Daniel wasn't following Lauren or Taylor.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Taylor checked the Unfollowers app.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, a lot of drama. Where does it all come?

Speaker 12 There's a lot of drama that went nowhere. Yeah.

Speaker 13 I feel like it's gonna come full circle, though.

Speaker 14 I think she freaked out and had like a panic.

Speaker 12 Now, are you referring to the time where like season, like episode five started and she's like half looking and then like she's like, I don't know, I have so many followers and then she just kind of stopped.

Speaker 14 No, she said, oh my God, so many people.

Speaker 4 The fact that she has that app tells me more than I need to know. Literally.

Speaker 13 It does, but also, I'm reading into the teaser a lot, but there's like a a clip of a blonde woman it could be anybody but i'm assuming it's taylor in the wedding dress crying walking back to the car after walking into the room and that to me is giving maybe she found out that he actually was there or they just were like yeah this he just was like yeah or that too or he was too short

Speaker 12 typical like hey well to your point i wonder i wonder if well there's no other blonde right now so that's why i'm like sarah If they're not together, if Daniel and Taylor aren't together at the reunion, it'll be interesting if she's like, actually, I went back and he was following me.

Speaker 4 She's like, now i've had more time to look and i was able one of the neutrals saw him and was like that's the man was actually tiktok does he not look kind of like jojos you are he does yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 4 he does yeah no i can't unsee it they like all like he does everyone's putting all these men in the same thing and they're being like this is the exact same man like it's amazon prime it's like

Speaker 4 yeah it's two-day delivery teamu it's like yeah there's no facial hair virginia wanted a prenup that was one of the other things good for her good for her. You're on Love is Blind.

Speaker 14 Get the prenup on Love is Blind.

Speaker 4 You met him two weeks ago.

Speaker 12 But they should all sign prenups.

Speaker 4 100%.

Speaker 13 His family, though, is kind of like questioning it.

Speaker 4 It's weird to have an issue with that when you literally have just met them, right? We don't have anything. It's like, hey, baby,

Speaker 14 it's also giving at this point she has more money than him.

Speaker 4 Well, yeah. She's got a nicer place.

Speaker 4 She wants to be a millionaire

Speaker 12 or doesn't understand.

Speaker 12 Maybe she's giving Tom Swartz, who wanted a prenup and

Speaker 12 he had had $200 for his name.

Speaker 4 I think she walked into his apartment, saw a studio with 500 pairs of $700 shoes, and was like,

Speaker 4 we're not giving financially responsible.

Speaker 12 The way they talk about her age on this show is crazy. She's 33 years old.
She's an absolute stunning of a human being. And they talk about her.
As if she is signing up for age.

Speaker 4 74 years old.

Speaker 4 Like, it's fucking, how old is he? Three years younger?

Speaker 12 28 29 that's crazy why do they just talk why are they making this age gap thing such a storyline that's true yeah there is no age gap he looks 10 years older than me he looks 45

Speaker 13 because when they talk about the high school she's like we weren't in the same class we wouldn't have been there the same time and it's like Three years is not that big of a difference.

Speaker 4 Yeah, like, babe, you're a senior.

Speaker 12 Is she making it more of a big deal or something?

Speaker 13 She's joked about like how people see her as like a young person. She's like, well, I'm actually a successful doctor, but then they're also using that storyline as a way to like.

Speaker 4 She's also only 33 yeah yeah well i can tell you a big issue that i have that i just can't get over um monica's story about how she leaves piles of clothes just stashed in her closet to put it on

Speaker 4 with a spider this was giving nick and natalie share a cup the sock the canil sock i'm sorry i'm gonna be so honest with y'all i really do skip through monica and joey because i just can't well she said that she likes to leave her clothes in a pile and like she doesn't fold it but they're clean and that she said one time she put on a pair of jeans and saw saw this like white stuff in her crotch.

Speaker 4 So it's like, yeah, you know what you're thinking it is. And then she goes, and then saw something crawl out of it.

Speaker 4 And it comes out that it was like a wolf spider who built a nest in the crotch of her pants. She said this on TV.
She said this on national television.

Speaker 13 Because she would wash her clothes and just throw it on the floor and then pick her clothes from the floor.

Speaker 4 Ew.

Speaker 13 Yeah. Well, Joey was like, we can't do this.
We have to, you know, he's like, we're going to fix this. She's healthy.

Speaker 4 And Joey, who you're not expecting, likes to like fold his clothes. He likes to put everything away.
I didn't see the way he folds t-shirts. And that was...

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's like you're putting too much fucking effort into it.

Speaker 14 He also said he's like gotten over OCD in the past.

Speaker 4 I don't think he's gotten over it whatsoever. The way he's folding those t-shirts was very much very hard to do.

Speaker 12 Oh, when she was like, you don't like that fold? And he's like, I did not like that fold.

Speaker 4 I did also see the part where he was very much, she was like, they're worried that like you're not good enough for me. And he was like, do they think anyone is ever going to be good enough for you?

Speaker 4 And she was like, no. Her sister? Her sister.
Like, that was awful there's real projection sitting yeah

Speaker 12 well when she was like i'm supposed to get married yes when she was like i'm supposed to but i guess it could i guess it should be you like that the sabotaging your sister's relationship because you're not in a relationship and gonna get married that's that's a some distic well also isn't the sister's boyfriend monica's ex monica's ex-boyfriend well or like they didn't date they went on like two dates or something and then she and then they weren't into each other and then she ended up with i missed that which is mixed me like douche pimples i'm like there's got to be more people in your life than to be dating somebody that your sister dating the problem i really had with it it's like whatever don't like your sister's boyfriend or whatever have a problem with the show fine

Speaker 12 but she she was basically accusing joey of being manipulative and she was like he's he clearly says things because he you know he's saying the right things She accused him of lying and

Speaker 12 being an actor and being disingenuous. Like, that's a pretty strong accusation.

Speaker 4 Especially for like, what, 30 30 minutes of meeting someone? Yeah. Like, and he's just being kind to your family.

Speaker 12 Solely based off the fact that, like, you're not about to get married. Yeah.
And your younger sister is.

Speaker 4 No, and she was like, he's not your type. Your type's a six foot five Italian model.
And even she was like, is that not everybody's?

Speaker 12 And she's like, and then she's like, well, I don't know if I'm going to be able to get that. And her sister's like, well, I think you should hold out.

Speaker 12 First of all, 6'5, specifically, first of all, take out any type of ethnicity or like, you know, preferences around that or occupation. But 6'5.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 How many, what, what's the percentage of men that are 6'5?

Speaker 4 It says less than 1%.

Speaker 12 Less than 1%. Now, what were her other qualifications?

Speaker 4 Italian moments. How many of them?

Speaker 12 How many?

Speaker 12 Now just Italian.

Speaker 15 Percentage of Italian men?

Speaker 12 Over 6'5.

Speaker 12 Compared. No, listen, it's

Speaker 4 going to be nothing. Less than 1%.

Speaker 12 Less than a half a percent.

Speaker 4 The average... Italian male height is around 5'9, and it is very uncommon to find men exceeding 6'5 in Italy.

Speaker 12 So already a rarity in general for the entire nation.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 But her sister is like earnestly telling her sister to like forego this guy who seems to be like pretty nice and have a really good chemistry with her. Seems to be a really, really a real gentleman.

Speaker 4 Even Andrea Denver from Summerhouse, Italian model, 6'2.

Speaker 4 So even then, the one Italian model I know off the top of my head does not hit 6'5. What did y'all think of the Sarah and Ben?

Speaker 4 Like, there's some girl who posted a TikTok crying, and she, like, apparently was with you, and he's I wouldn't be surprised if there was a DM here or there. Yeah, I know this one wasn't.

Speaker 12 I was aware of that.

Speaker 4 His reaction was weird. Yeah, it was the reaction to more so, like, where it was kind of like cagey.
Like, yeah, I don't know why she posted it, but I've seen it, so I don't need to watch it again.

Speaker 4 So, whoops. It's weird that he saw it.
Some girl that apparently used to be in involvement with Ben.

Speaker 4 She posted a TikTok, I guess, whenever they announced that the Minneapolis is filming.

Speaker 12 I feel like I heard about this way back in the day when it happened.

Speaker 4 Probably. And she's like crying and being like, these men, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I don't know exactly what she said. She didn't show the video.

Speaker 13 Well, his side of the story, Ben said, they met on Tinder, never hooked up. In quotes, I just honestly don't remember.
It was four years ago, and it was a short amount of time.

Speaker 13 And she's claiming that they were like full-on in a relationship, hooking up, and then he just ghosted her.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And that there were like a lot of DMs.

Speaker 13 And that's where he's like, well, there might be a DM or two. Like, I don't know.

Speaker 14 But she always DM'd me is what he said. Yeah.
Like, but what does that even mean?

Speaker 4 Exactly. I don't know.

Speaker 4 As Sarah said, like, there's definitely going to be more that comes out. And she was like, you better tell me everything right now.
Cause if more comes out, like, I will not trust you. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And it looked like he had the fear of God in his eyes. And he was like.

Speaker 12 But it's a little tough.

Speaker 12 If you, even if, let's say you believe his story, his story of it being four years ago, if someone says, listen, if anything comes out, no matter what, I will never believe you. And he's just.

Speaker 12 This is a person who, based on his story, is already coming out saying shit.

Speaker 12 I could see why he still has a look of like, yeah, I mean, I don't think anything's gonna come out, but like, fuck, you know, like, yeah, on Vin's behalf, like, it was four years ago.

Speaker 4 Like, I don't remember stuff that has happened four years ago, like, especially if to him it was like such a blip of a relationship.

Speaker 4 Clearly, to her, it was more if she's saying that they were full-on dating or whatever.

Speaker 4 I do think it's weird that he was already aware of this TikTok video and didn't bring it up to Sarah, and she had to find it on her own.

Speaker 4 And that he, yeah, he went on a blocking spree and like did not bring it up to his fiancé. When, like, hey, so there's a TikTok out there.
Like, this girl I was with four years ago.

Speaker 12 It's a little, it's a little weird, but

Speaker 12 I, I can at least empathize with why he was unsure about the time. Like, doesn't have his phone on him.

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 12 These people are so-they were out.

Speaker 4 He had, he had

Speaker 4 his phone enough to go and block her. No, I get it.

Speaker 12 I mean, but I'm saying they're in this like science experiment. I just think you guys don't really appreciate just the mind fuck that it is to be in this social experiment that they're in.

Speaker 12 So to criticize their choices they're making in it, you know, I think it's easy from our position to be like, he should have said this. And he probably should have.

Speaker 12 I think it's a weird thing to call someone your fiancé, which I get,

Speaker 12 they are engaged. They're about to get married.
who's also someone you didn't know three weeks ago. It's just a mind fuck.
It's a weird thing. And

Speaker 12 I don't think there's a right answer.

Speaker 12 You know, I just, he was probably hoping like there could have been a producer being like i don't know she's fucking crazy this shit always happens all the time it's not a thing like don't bring it there's how many times have i brought up to things to like friends or girlfriends at the time and they were like why'd you tell me that you know like i didn't need to know that you know and it was an earnest attempt to be honest it's not that big of a deal it's not that big of a deal like post bachelor like after i was the bachelor and i was in a relationship there was things that i i really wanted to be transparent and honest and there was a lot of things where it was like i didn't need to know that thanks for telling me And it'd be, you know, so I don't know.

Speaker 12 I don't think it's that simple.

Speaker 4 I do think it's weird that these people are trying to make such big deals out of what these people were doing before going on the show.

Speaker 12 I think this is, I think there's a lot not going on this season.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 And I think you're seeing.

Speaker 4 Like, I don't care if this was in a relationship four years ago and ghosted the girl. I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 4 I don't care that Lauren was fucking a guy before she went on the show. I don't care.

Speaker 12 Well, four years ago.

Speaker 4 They didn't even have sex, he says. Even if they did.

Speaker 12 You met on Tinder?

Speaker 13 It's hard when you say, like, this never happened. And you're like, well, I don't remember.

Speaker 4 Traitors.

Speaker 12 Traitors. Well, we'll keep it short and sweet because we do have Martin Cove coming up here momentarily.

Speaker 12 But I think my biggest takeaway is if I go on Traitors ever, if I ever get the opportunity, I don't think I'll be able to give this many shits, like Danielle and Carolyn.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, the performance from Danielle when Carolyn got voted out was the most.

Speaker 12 I imagine they're going to be sad, you know, like I get they're sad. I get they're excited, but like they're, they're really leaning into this being like life or death.

Speaker 4 I was so betrayed. You got a traitor out.

Speaker 4 Why you're breaking down in tears? It's a game show.

Speaker 13 Danielle specifically is the one doing too much.

Speaker 12 Doing too much.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 12 according to Chris, who was here last week, I mean,

Speaker 12 the fact that she's swearing on family members.

Speaker 12 Another thing I won't do if I go on traitors. Like, I don't care if I'm a faithful.
I don't care if I'm a traitor. If you ask me to swear on my kids, I'm like, fuck you.

Speaker 4 I think the fact that they didn't air any of that is more telling. Like, why are they protecting Danielle in that sense? Like, why wouldn't air that?

Speaker 4 That's something that, like, I'm sure people would love to hear the audience.

Speaker 12 I think they appreciate how intense she is. I think they appreciate just how

Speaker 12 giving of the moment like they're leaning into. And I think for them to air that would make...
You know, Danielle is making excellent TV. She's been, I mean, we can debate whether it's kind of shady.

Speaker 4 It's hard to watch.

Speaker 12 Swear on your kids. Hard to watch.

Speaker 14 I don't hate Danielle as much ever.

Speaker 12 I think she's a savage. I mean, like, hard to watch, whatever, but she's an absolute fucking savage.

Speaker 12 You know, we all like fond over Boston Rob. Well, fuck, man, he's a distant memory.

Speaker 12 She's outlasted all the traitors. She's like, she's like, no one thinks she's a traitor.
I mean, no one thought Caroline was a traitor. And the way like...

Speaker 12 Danielle set up Caroline and like absolutely just eviscerated her was just really, I mean, fuck, man.

Speaker 4 She's fucking a killer. I have two thoughts.

Speaker 13 I think nobody thinks she's a traitor because of what she said that they cut out that they're like there's no way like she's apparently dolore said there's no way anybody would like swear on their grandchildren like it's not worth it and then also it's like they're all gone all the other traitors are gone because danielle decided to be me before you and sabotage everybody else yeah

Speaker 12 you're out of it so she ruined the game she made it all about and it makes sense that if she's going to uh what's her name

Speaker 4 do you think do you think she

Speaker 4 told Britney she's a traitor she's recruiting her for sure do you think before do you think before she recruited her, she went to Britney and was like, hey,

Speaker 4 I think Brittany knows she's a traitor.

Speaker 12 I think Brittany suspects now that she, I think she knows now before, you know, the season, the episode ended, before like Danielle took off her hood.

Speaker 12 I think she even said if like it's, it'd be obvious. I think she definitely is expecting Danielle to be underneath that hood.
But I don't think she told her.

Speaker 12 And I think Danielle, based on what we heard about Crushelle, is that like, if that's all true, Danielle is like seriously worried about like her being like, I think she realizes she said some crazy shit and that's what's protecting her

Speaker 12 and

Speaker 12 she deserves to

Speaker 4 i mean i don't know like maybe maybe we should no longer believe people who say things like that after the season i think everybody's gonna be swear to god i don't believe in god you know like oh yeah didn't bob the drag queen say that oh yeah but he was doing a whole and anyone that knows bob like as soon as he said that me being a fan of bob i knew exactly where that was going.

Speaker 14 I knew it was a joke.

Speaker 13 I think Danielle was probably trying to do what Bob did. She's

Speaker 4 telling the joke. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 14 I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 4 I don't know Danielle outside of the show, but I know that she's a family.

Speaker 12 Maybe for all we know, in Danielle's family or circle of friends, they think swearing on family members is the dumbest fucking thing. It means nothing, and it's something people do.

Speaker 12 And they're like, sure, I swear on my fucking cousins because who gives a fuck? Because none of that matters. And they're not superstitious people.
And they think it's stupid.

Speaker 4 So why wouldn't they air it? I was going to say, yeah.

Speaker 12 Because they still want to protect.

Speaker 12 Because i think they still want to protect their traders and they still want to protect how crazy everyone's losing their minds and it makes because it makes it more dramatic if we knew that danielle said that we would be like that's why people aren't suspecting danielle as opposed to like being more like why aren't people suspecting danielle it makes for better tv yeah because traders operates on a way of like the fun of traders is watching everyone look stupid When you know who the traders are and you get to watch people like look a traitor right in the face and not realize they're a traitor, it's incredible because you're watching, you believe that you're watching people be dumb.

Speaker 12 Yeah. Well, Tom and Dolores.

Speaker 13 I was going to say, I love that they just keep throwing their votes and voting for each other.

Speaker 4 It's like, girl,

Speaker 13 like, what is going on here?

Speaker 4 Nobody's delusional thing.

Speaker 4 It's all so true, though. Listen, I heard what everybody else had to say, but you know what? I don't want to.
I just don't trust you, Tom. It's you.
They're always like, I don't have enough evidence.

Speaker 14 And they both know the other one is a faithful. No,

Speaker 12 they're both saying it like they believe that the other person's a traitor.

Speaker 4 100%.

Speaker 14 They just want the other one gone.

Speaker 13 Like at this point, it's Ivor, Gabby, and Dylan at the table. It's like everybody else is just throwing their votes for no reason.

Speaker 4 Well, Gabby seems like she's like on to it and catching on what's happening. So I'm hoping she executes before she gets executed.

Speaker 14 I worry for her every day.

Speaker 12 Danielle and Carolyn made a huge mistake by not recruiting Gabby as a traitor. The fact that

Speaker 12 it was Brittany or nobody.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 13 Carolyn's not wrong, though.

Speaker 4 If they recruited Brittany,

Speaker 12 Carolyn was absolutely right for saying no. Danielle was absolutely wrong for bringing anyone but her.

Speaker 13 Yeah, well, that's on Danielle.

Speaker 12 Well, although she got, she did, I don't know, or not. She got her way.

Speaker 14 Isn't the lore that on Big Brother, it was Danielle and Brittany, and then Brittany backstabbed Danielle?

Speaker 4 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Also, what do you think about, forgetting about, I know we were all coming at Danielle here for like, you know, swearing on her kids.

Speaker 12 Little fucked up of Carolyn to go to Dylan and be like, this is why people like judge me and not take me seriously. Make Dylan feel

Speaker 4 about like people not believing her. That's the thing.

Speaker 14 This is all a game of manipulation.

Speaker 12 That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 So Carolyn was a fuck.

Speaker 13 Carolyn was speaking her truth, though. Like she was, that is true.
She's like, I'm always seen as the quirky, weird person, and people don't take me seriously. So that's true.

Speaker 12 But she was leaning into that narrative to protect herself.

Speaker 12 And then going to Dylan and making him feel like he had judged her in a wrong way. And what he did, he started picking up on her dishonesty.
And then she made him feel bad for it.

Speaker 4 Dude, her reaction at the chess thing when it, when they were like, Dolores was like, oh, well, like, you kept, like, Carolyn, you were saying, Tom, you were on it. And she was like, no, I didn't.

Speaker 4 I didn't say that.

Speaker 4 She just would have been like, well, he was really pitching himself. I don't know.
He really was convincing me. Like, it would have played so much better.
But because she was like, huh? No, what? Me?

Speaker 4 I didn't. I didn't say anything.

Speaker 12 In that moment, Joan's like, oh, shit. Yeah, we are.

Speaker 13 I think her saying that she's been bullied in the past is not the same as swearing on your grandchildren.

Speaker 4 I agree. I don't.

Speaker 14 I also think both of them don't really matter because it's TV.

Speaker 12 Oh, it's also, yeah, a total fucking game.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 It's chill as fuck.

Speaker 12 But if we're going to call Danielle out, I think Caroline is no different.

Speaker 4 And also, like, am I wrong? But, like, if I were going to recruit somebody as a traitor, I'm recruiting Dylan.

Speaker 13 No, because then it's like Pete, where he turns it down.

Speaker 4 I don't think he had the option to turn it down. They're not allowed to.
It was either you turn it down or you go home.

Speaker 4 Now they're not. Yeah, this one, this one, they the second one, though, or the first one.

Speaker 13 No, no. The one before you get it.

Speaker 12 No, I get wrong. Now, now that Caroline's gone, Brittany does not have the option.
But before I believe,

Speaker 4 they did. But this one, they don't.
So that's what I'm saying is that I'm like, I wouldn't. I don't have the option.

Speaker 13 Oh, true, though. Well,

Speaker 13 it's the Danielle show.

Speaker 4 She doesn't care about that. That's what I'm saying.
I'm like, we're like the most unsuspecting person that everybody knows is a faithful. Like, why would you not want to recruit that guy? Force him.

Speaker 4 You know what? Force him.

Speaker 14 Also, everyone thinks that both traders are... girls right now.
So why would you not grab a guy and flip that?

Speaker 13 It's because she knows Britney's going to go to bat for her. Yeah.
So Britney's going to be the deflection.

Speaker 14 I don't think Brittany's actually going to go to bat for her because at the end of the day, they all want to win.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 14 So Brittany's going to cut her throat just like she did on Big Brother.

Speaker 4 Brittany's done it before. She'll do it again.
Exactly. I hope she does.

Speaker 14 I'm really excited to watch what happens next.

Speaker 12 We'll see. Well, up next, we have a very endearing conversation with Martin Cove.
You know him from the hit series Cobra Kai, also from the Karate Kid movies.

Speaker 12 He has some great endearing stories, obviously, about his time on Cobra Kai. It was a great chat with Martin.
I look forward to listening to it and that is up next.

Speaker 19 On eBay, every find has a story. Like if you're looking for a vintage band tee, not just a T,

Speaker 19 the band tee.

Speaker 17 You wore it everywhere until your BFF stole it.

Speaker 21 Now you're on eBay and there it is.

Speaker 19 Same tea from the same tour.

Speaker 19 Where else can you find that mint trading card you searched everywhere for? Or your first car, the one you wished you never sold?

Speaker 1 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, How do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 9 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 6 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 11 That's pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's kind of one of the things I'm working on now. Can I take it out of this? Yeah, sure.

Speaker 4 What is this? Is this a comic book? That's a graphic novel of four issues, four issues of a comic book called The Prodigal Son that we're developing into a series. And there's a convention in

Speaker 4 Glendale, in Glendale, this coming week, and then I'll be signing there. And I own it, and we're going to do it as a series.
It's about a gunfighter that I'll play who's killed everything.

Speaker 4 And there's a 12-year-old kid that he bonds with. And they...
they exchange moral fiber between them and they each learn how to be human.

Speaker 4 The kid learns how to be a survivalist and I learn how how to be a human being. So that's their character right there.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 If you open it up full, you'll see, well, the character is all through the book. You know, he's the lead and

Speaker 4 he's the man in black.

Speaker 4 And they're both on a mission to get this bad gang that I, at one time,

Speaker 4 ran. And I was ostracized by my son.
who in real life, my son, will play the leader of the gang. And it's really a good story.
It's very much like John Creese and Cobra Kai, you know. Wow.

Speaker 4 So we should. How long did it take you to write that? I wrote all the broad strokes, the treatments for each four issues.

Speaker 4 One of my partners, Don Hanfield, he wrote the dialogue in the comic, in the captions. And then we had an artist

Speaker 4 do the artwork.

Speaker 12 Wow. It was beautiful artwork.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's really incredible artwork.

Speaker 12 Oh, yeah. And I kind of can see you in there a little bit.

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, you know,

Speaker 4 I find that the comic book world doesn't care what you look like. So in a couple of issues, you could see it's Martin Cove.

Speaker 4 A couple of issues, you would know if it's me or Elvis Costello.

Speaker 4 You know, I mean, it's like, and they don't care.

Speaker 4 You know, it explained to me that it's at the hands of the artist, you know, and

Speaker 4 I don't really, you know, I'm a comic book collector of TV and movie comic books, you know, 60s Westerns and all, but we'll talk about this through the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, we're recording.

Speaker 4 We're kind of already talking about it. We're recording.
Yeah, we're recording. We're just.
Martin Cove, everybody. Martin Cove, everybody.

Speaker 12 I'm very excited to have you, man. I've been a fan of the Karate Kid franchise for, well, like, since I was a kid, Karate Kid 2 might be one of my favorites.
That opening scene.

Speaker 12 you know, where you're punching through the glass. It was very cool.
Obviously, Culpr Kai coming out. So very excited to have you.
Very,

Speaker 4 very cool for me. Thank you.

Speaker 12 Yeah, younger me.

Speaker 12 Yeah, it's, it's, you know, I get very excited when I have guests like yourself on this show.

Speaker 12 You know, I kind of started the show and then never thought I'd have people that I've known my whole life and just was fans of and watched as a kid growing up. So it's very cool.

Speaker 4 I, I, you know, it's interesting when, when that happens, you know, it's like when I, when I was Sean Connery standing in 1972 in a movie called the Anderson Tapes.

Speaker 4 And I just started acting and there I was working with Sean Connery and I was a glorified extra. It was called a photo double.
You know, you stand in, line up a shot.

Speaker 4 You know, it was like my second year in the business.

Speaker 4 And the most fascinating thing I learned from him, and he was working with lots of actors then who were very popular, who are gone now, Martin Balsam, Jack Warden, just Diane Cannon.

Speaker 4 You know, I learned how to listen from this guy. You know, it was really interesting.
He had a plot to rob this Fifth Avenue building, and he had to get a lot of people's cooperation.

Speaker 4 And the greatest thing that I learned from Sean Connery, being there for six, eight weeks,

Speaker 4 was

Speaker 4 how to listen in a scene.

Speaker 4 You know, and he was a great guy. I bumped into him years later, played tennis with him over here in Motor Avenue opposite Fox.
And it was great. Did you win? Yeah, who won? Well,

Speaker 4 it was a very funny story. We can't really tell it aloud here because there's a lot of cursing.

Speaker 12 You can curse.

Speaker 4 You can curse here.

Speaker 12 It's up to you, but we allow it.

Speaker 4 so we're playing i bump into him this is like 15 years later and i finished cagney and lacy and i finished karate kid one and you know it was a little established and and i said sean do you remember me and he's looking you know you're looking for a tennis game and this is probably 85 i think and uh he says no

Speaker 4 and i said well okay we want to hit and he's hitting and he's hitting everything into the net over my head and he's playing terribly and he had a bad back and tennis wasn't his game He played golf.

Speaker 4 So every time he hit the ball over the net, he screamed, fuck,

Speaker 4 fuck, bitch,

Speaker 4 son of a fucker, you know, screaming out loud. And I'm dying.

Speaker 4 I'm dying on the other end of the court, hysterical, because I'm saying to myself, shit, I'm playing tennis with James Bond and he curses just like me.

Speaker 4 You know?

Speaker 4 And it was just, it was the height of the day, you know? He was a good guy. Really good guy.
Did you finally tell him how y'all knew each other after the game?

Speaker 4 No, I asked if he remembered me at the very top of what we chatted at the beginning when I saw him. He was looking for a game.
And he didn't remember me. And I said, Sean, do you remember me?

Speaker 4 I was just standing. And he says, nope.
But do you want to play?

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 yeah, sure.

Speaker 4 Isn't that great?

Speaker 12 How like, you know, we remember those stories from so long ago and they stick with us.

Speaker 12 And, you know, just hearing how you even got into acting and here you are now so many years later replaying a character that was so iconic in like the 80s it just like just you know kind of it always sticks with you it's always always fun to hear those like throwback stories the character was you know a very one-dimensional character in the movies but when we did the series i i did not want him to be anything really but vulnerable and have an arc and

Speaker 4 have a lot of colors in his emotional colors and people to learn why he was the way he was in the movies, you know, tough, hard, one-dimensional. You know, and they did it.
They wrote those things.

Speaker 4 And it made me feel really good, especially in the end, you know, season six, where he has, you know, there's so many people that

Speaker 4 there are so many interviews. My son reads me all the interviews.
And, you know, there are so many, you know, I guess they're not really interviews. They're actually, you know,

Speaker 4 criticisms or appreciation in the sense of a review of the final season. And all of them wanted to see more of what happened to me.
They wanted to have more development of the redemption.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 And I thought that was really good because it made me feel like, well, you know, Johnny Lawrence is the lead of the show, but that this tough guy had enough redemption through the season because six is good for the character.

Speaker 4 And he had enough redemption that people wanted more of that. And it wasn't something you saw in the character because he, you know, he was tough.

Speaker 4 He was very moral, but it was his way of the highway, you know, a very impatient character. And a lot of those residual effects that playing John Crees stayed with me for a long time.
You know,

Speaker 4 he finished five years, five months a year, four months a year. And some of that darkness was hard to rub off.
It was, you know.

Speaker 12 Yeah, did you, were there people like in the height with Cardik in the movies playing this villainous character that was so kind of rugged? I mean, John Kreese was a really good bad guy

Speaker 12 in the best possible way. But I imagine fans of the franchise,

Speaker 12 did they treat you a certain way sometimes? Were they kind of confused, you know, John versus Martin?

Speaker 4 I would go to Malibu and be in the supermarket and I'd all of a sudden get nailed in the lower back, like

Speaker 4 punched hard. What? You know, and it was a little kid.
I'll never forget it. It was a little kid.
And it was in the market basket, I think, in Halibu, years ago.

Speaker 4 And he nailed me and he looked at me and he says,

Speaker 4 you hurt Ralph.

Speaker 4 You know, and then I was like, I couldn't do anything because the kid was a little kid. He hit me so hard, you know, right in the gun, the lower hip.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, people were affected by that. You know, they really thought that he was so one-dimensional, so tough.

Speaker 4 I remember John Avelson coming to me, you know, I try to smile a little bit in the Karate Kid 1 movie, and

Speaker 4 he came up to me and he says, Martin Cove,

Speaker 4 I don't want the Marty Cove charm. I don't want the twinkle.
I want death.

Speaker 4 So I said, okay. You know, now I just finished a lovely movie for his son.
you know, Ash Avelson, which it's a terrific little movie, and it's called The Queen of the Ring, about the

Speaker 4 first female wrestler. And I play a character with a lot of vulnerability, with a lot of enjoyment of the female warrior.
And I give,

Speaker 4 you know, wrestling, women in wrestling world were not allowed to wrestle until you couldn't wrestle in California or New York until 1972. Wow.
So women in the 40s and 50s and 60s.

Speaker 4 I was the promoter, the wrestling commissioner, actually. And I played this character.
And not until the 50s did he give this woman her name was

Speaker 4 Mildred a license to wrestle because this wasn't happening and he was he truly believed that women could wrestle and it could be a good entertainment and he did it and he promoted it and helped her get started in the Midwest and then it all exploded and she became you know very wealthy and the

Speaker 4 i guess the point of no return for women in that sport, you know, because she went ahead and wrestled men. And so it was cool.
Wow. You know, so it's really funny.
You come full circle.

Speaker 4 You know, his father had me playing this one-dimensional, you know, soldier of death,

Speaker 4 you know, and then, and then now I'm playing last year, did this movie, and Ash is a wonderful writer. And, you know, John's gone, but Ash directed and wrote this wonderful film.

Speaker 12 Do you find the vulnerable characters to be harder to play than the one-dimensional ones?

Speaker 12 Just because you kind of have to channel some of your own vulnerabilities sometimes versus just kind of playing a bad guy or they both equally have its challenges.

Speaker 4 Well, they both equally have their challenges, but you know, in my work, I'll go back into personal situations,

Speaker 4 which I can, if I have to play something very vulnerable like with Johnny Lawrence at the end, anytime it's vulnerability, I bring into

Speaker 4 some personal situations, whether it be with family or my, you know, my ex-girlfriend who, you know, we were together for like seven years and broke up 12 times and it was very volatile.

Speaker 4 You know, it was like always like this. So there was a lot to draw from.

Speaker 4 And a lot of those emotions were emotions that were, you know, impatience and my way of the highway or the stuff that came out of John Creese.

Speaker 4 So it like rubbed Martin Cove, and then Martin Cove was allowed to use it and personalize it for other things involving the character, per se vulnerability, per se sadness.

Speaker 4 And so it's kind of was interesting because you could use a residual

Speaker 4 emotion gathered by the character and then ultimately use it in real life if it works for you or not. and then use it again when you have to be vulnerable and kind and soft and gentle.

Speaker 4 So it was quite an interesting ride with this character. And my new project,

Speaker 4 Prodigal Son, is

Speaker 4 the character is very similar. And I look forward to that, to doing it as a series.

Speaker 4 You know, an old gunfighter set in his ways like John Crees, you know, with a 12-year-old kid who could be like a Johnny Lawrence and learning, each of them exchanging moral fiber with each other, learning how to be survivalists and a human being.

Speaker 4 See, today I don't think kids have any heroes. I think when I grew up in the 60s, there were 35 Westerns.
You're both too young for that, but there were 35 Westerns on primetime TV.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 you could choose your heroes. Then you had movies in the 50s and 60s.
You had movies with John Wayne about films like The Searchers, who I...

Speaker 4 modeled my character, John Creese, after because, you know, John Wayne played a real son of a bitch in that movie and it was a great film John one of John Ford's best westerns I just want to leave the legacy of kids having heroes so when I go out I know I've left I've left the children a choice of having you know a hero and I think they'll look at this boy in this in the prodigal son it's a great comic book there's four issues in that graphic novel

Speaker 4 and this week We'll go to the comic convention and I'll see the climate for everything.

Speaker 12 That's awesome. Is this under, under, is this in production already?

Speaker 4 No, it's not in production because we're looking for a showrunner right now. Okay.
Right off the press. It's the graphic novel that I own

Speaker 4 that was four issues and the four issues will hit the stores. And this is a comic book convention of all the owners of comic book stores.
So it's here in Los Angeles.

Speaker 12 How did you find out that they were creating Cobra Kai and bringing back kind of the karate kid universe? Was that a shock to you? Or did you hear rumblings of it?

Speaker 12 It had been so many years since, you know, the movies were out. What was that like for you to hear that concept that they were coming out with this series?

Speaker 4 William Zapka told me, and they went to Billy and went to Ralph and hired and got them aboard. And then

Speaker 4 they came to me. It's a funny story.
They told me they wanted me to be in the 10th episode of season one

Speaker 4 to attract people to watch season two.

Speaker 4 And they were afraid to tell me this because they were so taken by the toughness of this character that they thought I would kick their ass

Speaker 4 in the restaurant. We went to Dantanis

Speaker 4 and they told us, literally told it on the podcast that was my children and myself. We had a podcast for a while.
And they came as guests, all three writers, Josh, John, and Hayden.

Speaker 4 And they said, we thought you were going to kick our ass because we wanted you to come in and see episode 10 instead of episode 5 or 6, which is what I wanted to come in on.

Speaker 4 I thought it was really funny that they admitted to that and they felt that. I never felt it at the meeting, you know, and it kind of made sense.

Speaker 4 Come in episode 10, set up, you know, season two, and it did, because no one thought I'd return this 30 years and then the real story's only just begun.

Speaker 4 It's my favorite line. So it was very interesting.
And they made the deal, you know, because they were different. You take so many hit movies, try to be television series, and they fail.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 And this one was through the eyes of Johnny Lawrence. It was different.
And everybody, YouTube liked it, gave him an order for 10.

Speaker 4 And then when YouTube did not want any more original programming, two years later, we had shown massive numbers.

Speaker 4 And especially, it was during COVID, so everybody was home, and the show became a phenomenon on television. And then ultimately, Netflix bought it.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I mean, it's, you're right. A lot of times when they do like a remake of a movie, it's, you know, they're just kind of redoing it.
We're like, Cobra Kai, you're right.

Speaker 12 It's a whole, whole different avenue, a whole different angle. And like, it's really fascinating to see like these characters like Johnny and John, who are just like...

Speaker 12 you had this strong opinion about who they were when you watched those movies. And then to just to see the other side, the empathy or just what created them to be the certain way.

Speaker 12 And then, you know, Ralph's character, you know, and then, you know, you see flaws in that character where in the movie, he was like the golden boy and this kind of righteous character.

Speaker 12 It's way more captivating that way.

Speaker 12 It'd be interesting to see if there's other shows or movies out there where they learn from Cobra Kai and kind of take that approach rather than trying to just recreate a movie and adapt it to a TV series.

Speaker 4 You know, my son showed me a 15-minute pilot that he did, and the writing was brilliant. And this, I don't remember the author's name, but he had written many, many books.

Speaker 4 And this was a 15-minute pilot, very similar to, you know, Jack Reacher, you know.

Speaker 4 And it was brilliant, brilliant, though. And why was it brilliant? Because of the writing, because the writing, every line, and I looked at it on an iPad, I said, Jesse, this is fantastic.

Speaker 4 And he did it a while ago. And without the written word, without the writing of Cobra Kai, you know, I talk about it on interviews all the time.

Speaker 4 We wouldn't have had the success. You know, you could

Speaker 4 be, you know, John Crease, Johnny Lawrence, Ralph Macho coming out of a hit movie, movie, sure.

Speaker 4 But you have to perform and come to the table with the good writing for all the other characters, for our personal problems. You've got to come with development.

Speaker 4 And these cats knew everything about our character two years in advance. So they knew where you were going to go.
After season one, I went, met with mercenaries. I met with Army Rangers.

Speaker 4 I met with everyone that could have met John Creese in the field. Made notes on a legal YOA pad, five pages of notes, went to lunch.

Speaker 4 Everything I had on my notes, they already knew the flashbacks to introduce this character in a certain way, you know, in a snake pit killing his captain. You know, they knew it all.

Speaker 4 They had it all planned out in their head. There was nothing I could say.
You know, none of my notes were pertinent.

Speaker 4 And I was, you know, I made a lot of notes because I always thought Karate Kid was my show.

Speaker 4 So, you know, so if you treat it that way, then, you know, you make an abundance of notes.

Speaker 4 And, you know, Cadney and Lacey, I used to, I always thought it was Cagney Lacey and his Becky, which is the character's name. You know, it also was a good show.

Speaker 4 And I think that show, Cagney and Lacey, was marvelous and would have been a big hit today. It was ahead of its time back in the 80s, you know.

Speaker 4 But, you know, I've been lucky enough to be part of some really good stuff.

Speaker 12 How do you feel like Cobra Kai connected with its audience?

Speaker 12 Like, do you have, you know, I know when you were back in the day, you got punched by a little kid, but did you, did you have any better moments with some of the younger fans of Cobra Kai and you felt like you resonated or, you know, it spoke to them in a certain way?

Speaker 4 Certainly, you go to a Comic-Con and I used to ask people, why do you like the show? And they say, well, the kids watch the show.

Speaker 4 And then we go up to them and say, would you like to see the movies that we grew up on with the same characters? And the kids say, well, okay, daddy.

Speaker 4 They all go and they watch the movies and the kids love the movies. All the family will gather around the TV to watch Cobra Kai now.
It's a family event.

Speaker 4 So there aren't very many family events on television. So that's how it became popular from the beginning.
And then people say, you're the best villain on TV. We love to hate you.

Speaker 4 But when you got stabbed in the prison, you cried. So I said to myself, you know, I don't want to be known as a villain.
I really don't. And the mere fact that they cried, I actually did my job.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 You connected with them. I connected with them.
And certainly in the sixth season, you know, lots of tears. You know, that last scene with Billy is wonderful.
They wrote great stuff.

Speaker 4 Sure, could I have been longer? Could you have seen me survive, you know, the boat explosion? We shot a scene where you see my hand going to a magazine with just just my ring and a cigar

Speaker 4 to be introduced into episode 15, The Last Bit. You don't see me.

Speaker 4 You would see that and assume I made it. But it was a little hokey to have that boat blow up the way it did.
And 24 hours later, I survived. Smoking a cigar with a magazine.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 So it was kind of like, you know, too much. And I understood it when, you know, but in the articles, you see people saying, well, John Crease always survives everything.

Speaker 4 He says, why didn't someone throw him a lifeline? There was one picture of me being in the water, right?

Speaker 4 Someone AI'd it and me holding on to a lifeline in the water. It's funny.

Speaker 4 The reactions are enormous. They're very popular.
That's awesome. So you wish you can take that into, you know, prodigal son, that kind of success.

Speaker 4 I'd love to have the, you know, the writers be basically the showrunners of my, you know, my friend Lincoln Lageson is wonderful.

Speaker 4 He was a producer, the line producer on a variety of things, Rough Riders and did a lot of Larry Levinson's movies and did a touch of love for Hallmark for a picture that my son started.

Speaker 4 And I play a restaurant tour. And I liked those kind of movies, even though it wasn't real schmalsey like a Hallmark movie.
It was about love and food.

Speaker 4 And I like to be able to do that again, you know, have the emotionality of what I displayed in

Speaker 4 the final season

Speaker 4 utilized in other characters. That would be fun.
Characters that are not bad guys.

Speaker 12 Are you sad to see it come to an end? Are you more excited about what this success of Cobra Kai can allow you to do?

Speaker 12 Like you just kind of talked about some of these other characters that you'd love a chance to play more of.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it allowed me to just

Speaker 4 have a level of confidence in your instrument and your work, because anything practice makes perfect.

Speaker 4 So the mere fact you get a TV series, you can go act several times a week, no matter who you are, you're going to get better.

Speaker 4 You know, I tell that to my son, and

Speaker 4 he's really good.

Speaker 4 He has a movie out that I produced, which is a film called The Gunfighter's Deal. And it's the story of a coward in a western town who makes a deal with the devil to be the fastest gun in the West.

Speaker 4 And then he tries to renegue and the devil says no. It's a lovely little movie.
We shot it about a year ago in Florida. And it's a Western.

Speaker 4 And it was just bought by the Shout Factory for distribution. And they're a Western organization.
They co-produced this movie on streaming called Old Henry about Billy the Kid.

Speaker 4 And they owned Stagecoach, the original John Ford stagecoach from 1939, and all of Kenny Rogers' Westerns, you know, the gambler ones.

Speaker 4 And they're just Western lovers, so they'll really nurse this piece, you know, properly.

Speaker 12 That's great, man. It's so fun to hear all these stories.

Speaker 12 Before we let you go, we have a fun game. I don't know.
Do you like games?

Speaker 4 Sure. Sure.

Speaker 12 I don't imagine you watch any reality TV.

Speaker 4 No, I don't watch reality.

Speaker 12 I assumed as much. Our audience likes us.
You're out.

Speaker 4 You're missing out.

Speaker 14 There are a lot of villains who are very, very,

Speaker 4 very, very,

Speaker 12 but we thought we'd play a fun game, a little crossover. Mary came up with this game.
You want to tell them the name?

Speaker 14 Yeah, it's called 80s movie or Bravo Villain.

Speaker 12 So the premise being like these iconic quotes, did they come from a reality TV villain? or an iconic 80s movie villain. Yes.
And then you just have to guess. It's so simple.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 4 All right. And so, an 80s and 80s reality show villain.
No, no, no.

Speaker 12 It'll be a modern day, modern-day reality TV villain or an 80s movie villain.

Speaker 4 Yeah, 80s shows.

Speaker 4 Present day reality villain. And you just have to say,

Speaker 4 yeah.

Speaker 14 All right. So we just show you a quote from either an 80s movie villain or a reality TV villain.
And it's your job to guess who said it.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 14 All right. So first up, we have: Buck me gently with a chainsaw.
Do I look like Mother Teresa?

Speaker 4 Ooh.

Speaker 12 It's a good line.

Speaker 4 It's a good line. Yeah, it's a very good line.

Speaker 4 Well, it's definitely an 80s movie because it wouldn't work on reality TV.

Speaker 4 So, Mary?

Speaker 19 You are correct.

Speaker 14 It was Heather Chandler from Heather's, 1988.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 All right. So do I say if it's like that an 80s movie? Yeah, just 80s movie or reality movie.

Speaker 4 You don't have to guess. Unless you know.
Unless I know. Unless you know.

Speaker 4 That's good. If I know, I know.
If you know, you know.

Speaker 14 And they can, they can curse in reality TV. So

Speaker 4 definitely

Speaker 4 fuck. Yeah.
You can curse in reality, even network reality TV. They just bleep it.
Yeah. Oh, I got it.
But

Speaker 14 they say it a lot.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 14 Next up, we have this town needs an enema.

Speaker 4 This town needs an enema. It sounds like something something from a reality show.

Speaker 4 This is the joke.

Speaker 14 And he Captainevas or Jack Nicholson in a tower.

Speaker 4 Now that you say that, I kind of remember that line from the movie. Oh, yeah, he has so many great lines.
That was a great movie.

Speaker 4 There was a movie that I always use as an example. It's an egotistical example.
There's a movie called The Carnal Knowledge that he did back in 72.

Speaker 4 And he did it with Ann Margaret. And

Speaker 4 he's in the bedroom and she's wailing. And she says, I love you, I want you, I need you.

Speaker 4 And he says, and only the way Jack Nicholson can say it, like that line, you know, he says, well, I'm taken. And he's getting dressed to leave.

Speaker 4 And she's in the bedroom and she wants him to just come back to bed. And he says, I'm taken.
And she says, by who? You know, as if she's jealous. What woman do you have? And he says, by me.

Speaker 4 You know, it's a great line. And the way he delivers it, you know, it's it's like, I'm taken by me.

Speaker 4 That was awesome.

Speaker 14 All right. Next up, we have

Speaker 14 you can only get hurt so much before you get numb.

Speaker 4 Ooh.

Speaker 4 Sounds like a very someone giving someone else psychological advice

Speaker 4 about a relationship.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so we'll get reality TV.

Speaker 14 That's correct. That was Teresa Judice from the Real Housewives of New Jersey.

Speaker 4 New Jersey.

Speaker 4 Give me strength.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you.

Speaker 4 Give me strength on all these.

Speaker 14 All right. Next up, I am the devil.
And don't you forget it.

Speaker 4 Well, that could be Witches of Eastwick. I mean, it could be.
Oh, my gosh. Knows the name of the movie? Yeah, well, I just watched it again.
It's such a good movie.

Speaker 4 You know that movie? Oh, no, it's a good movie.

Speaker 4 Jack Nicholson again plays the devil and Cher, Susan Sarandon, and um michelle pfeiffer play three women in a little town and he infects them because and that line would work i am the devil and don't you forget

Speaker 14 okay so let's just say a movie it is not from the classic witches of each wick it is from vanderpump rules said by stasi schroeder

Speaker 14 All right, next time

Speaker 14 we have you need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers and say that's the bad guy.

Speaker 12 I want want this to be reality TV. It's such a good line.

Speaker 4 I mean, sure, if we're cursing him reality TV, it's definitely

Speaker 4 reality TV. All right.

Speaker 16 Stony Montana from Scarface.

Speaker 4 Oh, boy, these are tricky ones. Yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 14 I really, I thought this was going to be so much more easy. And then when I was making it, I was like, man, kind of hard.

Speaker 4 It's kind of

Speaker 4 Montana. There were so many classic moments in that movie.

Speaker 4 I mean, just this one is definitely an 80s movie. Yeah.

Speaker 14 Since you're new here, I'm going to cut you a break today. So why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?

Speaker 4 Oh, wait, hold on. Wait, that's what movie is that?

Speaker 12 Is that a Clintonians? That's a Clinton mine.

Speaker 4 Oh, no. No.

Speaker 12 Wait, wait. Back to the Future.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's made like a tree. There you go.
Ding, ding, ding. I love that picture of him.

Speaker 4 Oh, it's Back to the Future.

Speaker 14 He says it in one. I just put part two because I wanted to put this picture of him in there because it makes me giggle.

Speaker 4 Have you seen the play? You know, this play. Last night we saw Harry Potter.
Took the family to see Harry Potter.

Speaker 4 and they and back to the future is coming to pantages oh it is and that's what i i haven't seen i've seen moula rouge five times

Speaker 4 i just love moolah rouge it's incredible and i've seen it in nashville i've seen it in tampa you know i just love moula rouge it's all it's all about john creese it's all about every line is about a relationship that didn't work out because

Speaker 4 of bad emotions, you know?

Speaker 4 And I think Moula Rouge is brilliant because, and and back to the future is supposed to be as good because they take lyrics from a variety of songs whether it's elton john tina turn or whatever and they'll take one lyric and put it into the dialogue of the of the show and the show is all about like the movie you know a really a romantic relationship but it's better because you're right there you know and you just sit there and you cry it's the best Moula Rouge, I hope it comes here again.

Speaker 4 Harry Potter was good? Harry Potter was really good. You have to know Harry Potter, though.
I mean, it goes fast. Did you read the books? Yeah.

Speaker 4 But the problem is, even when you read the books, what they depict on the stage, it's really a two-day

Speaker 4 event in your life. In New York, it's two days.
So here, they had to cut stuff and talk fast to get it all happening. And if you're not really well versed.

Speaker 4 in everything that's going on in all those movies

Speaker 4 or in the books, you know,

Speaker 4 you got you first of all you got to sit in the third row because you got to watch the faces and hear what they're saying and it's complicated but it's done very well okay very good you got to go see it okay all right well next up we have if i give you a chanel necklace and you choke on it that's your problem not mine

Speaker 4 wow chanel necklace what does your gut tell you it's a reality show my gut your gut chanel necklace it is it's lisa barla from the real house of Salt Lake City.

Speaker 12 Which Barlow.

Speaker 4 They should make Salt Lake City into a musical, it actually. Yeah, we have.

Speaker 12 We've had talked to some actresses who are fans of these housewives, and they've been rich in character study.

Speaker 12 You know, they'll watch some of these shows and try to pull from, you know, when they're developing various characters that they're playing,

Speaker 12 they'll study some of these women, we've been told.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 12 They're rich with content.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 14 All right. Next, we have stop acting like you're the number one fucking guy in this group.
I'm the number one guy in this group.

Speaker 4 Jesus.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 There's not a lot of.

Speaker 12 Oh, you don't know who this is?

Speaker 4 He wouldn't know, but you should know.

Speaker 14 Well, that should tell you the answer.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that could help, but it doesn't.

Speaker 4 I don't know this one. All right.
Jack Taylor?

Speaker 14 It's Jax Taylor from Vanderbilt.

Speaker 4 There's a lot of reality.

Speaker 14 Jax Taylor maybe could be an 80s movie villain.

Speaker 14 He does say a lot of things that

Speaker 14 you might see

Speaker 14 in a Biff from Back to the Future.

Speaker 4 I have to do a PSA for mental health, please. I have to go and do that.
So

Speaker 4 I have to go to the other side of town and do it. A friend of mine, it's very interesting.

Speaker 4 He's been asking me for years to do it. And

Speaker 4 it's amazing.

Speaker 4 If children don't get enough attention from the age from birth all the way to four, if they spend a lot of time watching TV or looking out the window or just not getting the support and love in those formative years,

Speaker 4 68% of those children end up dropping out of high school. Wow.

Speaker 4 You know, we have a one-year-old little girl. Do you really? We do.
Oh, Mazzota. That's right.
She just turned out. Nice, yeah.
One, yeah. You got to,

Speaker 4 you know, I mean, yeah, I kind kind of knew that because we had tried for five years to have a baby. And

Speaker 4 my ex-wife was still very good friends. And we tried everything, you know,

Speaker 4 gift and frozen embryo transplants and in vitro. And finally, we had

Speaker 4 we had twins. And after five years of attempting it,

Speaker 4 it was incredible. The kids are great and a boy and a girl.
And I think that's when my career slowed down in 1990.

Speaker 4 I also think that's when I decided not to be Stephen McQueen anymore and try, you know, for 20 years of my career, I was doing Steve McQueen, you know, and then all of a sudden the kids happened and I felt like, well, I'm okay now.

Speaker 4 You know, I've got the kids. And I just sat there and watched in the crib, watched them sleep.

Speaker 4 I didn't even think about it.

Speaker 4 I think it was eight months

Speaker 4 and I got a movie in London. So I took the kids.
I could not be without them. I took them with an annie in

Speaker 4 1991, did a movie called The Shadow Chaser and went to Pinewood Studios and took a flat in Kew.

Speaker 4 And I wouldn't leave them. I would just go back and watch these twins,

Speaker 4 got them these little things they call bagels and they can hold and walk with them and learn to walk, you know. And I just spent more time with the kids than I'm ever on my career anymore.

Speaker 4 And then, of course, I realized I needed money and I needed to go back to work.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I know. Being a parent has been the most fulfilling aspect of my life where it just, yeah, it just makes everything else.

Speaker 4 It takes the focus, especially when we're sensitive as artists. You know, going to a job nine to five is a different deal.
But when you're an artist, you're usually a little more sensitive. And,

Speaker 4 you know, you have so much history that you use as an artist. for whatever work you're doing, whether it's painting or poetry or acting, doesn't matter, or music.

Speaker 4 So we're so familiar with what it takes to grow up that we want to cultivate our children's lives so much more, I think,

Speaker 4 than the average person. But in any case, I must go and get to your mental health.
I've got to go and do that. This guy's a good friend of mine.

Speaker 4 He produced Oxford Blues, this movie, and a lot of films.

Speaker 4 And I told him I promised him today, so I'd go. Well, get out of here, man.

Speaker 4 I'm going to read from a teleprompter. It's a lot of stuff, so I don't have to

Speaker 4 learn anything, but I wanted to come by and say hello.

Speaker 12 Well, Martin, it's been an absolute pleasure having you. Thank you for the storytelling.

Speaker 12 And congratulations on an incredible career and obviously the success of Coper Kai, which if you are listening, is

Speaker 4 it out now?

Speaker 4 Yeah, season six premiered on Thursday, and it's on Netflix. And it's, you know, it's one of the biggest shows out there.

Speaker 12 Yeah, no, it's absolutely huge. It's a great watch.
And, you know, like Martin said, a great family show. Well, it's a family show, but also it's for the kids.
It's for the adults.

Speaker 12 Everyone can enjoy it. It's an absolute fantastic one.
Be sure to check it out. Thank you again, Martin.

Speaker 4 My pleasure.

Speaker 12 Thank you to our guests, Alex, Venita, and Martin. We will see you tomorrow for Electric Going Deeper with the one and only Bella Thorne.
You definitely do not want to miss that.

Speaker 12 It is dramatic, emotional, and you will not want to miss it. And then on Thursday, we will be back covering all your favorite shows.

Speaker 12 We'll get into a little bit more Summerhouse because I know we only talked about it briefly this episode. There's just so much.
Plus, we'll get into some more Love is Blind and so much more.

Speaker 12 We'll see you then.

Speaker 4 Bye.

E890 - Southern Charm w/ Venita, Bachelor w/ Alexe, Love Is Blind, Martin Kove, Traitors, and Summer House

Press play and read along

Transcript

More episodes from The Viall Files

E1044 Ask Nick - I Dumped My Perfect Boyfriend

E1043 - Vanderpump Is Back, Ryan Serhant Talks Owning Manhattan, RHOSLC, RHOP, Spotify Wrapped & Psychics

E1042 - Luann de Lesseps talks RHONY's Future, Fruity Pebble Gate, DWTS Finale, RHOSLC & Thanksgiving

E1040 – Going Deeper with Jessi And Jordan

E1039 - Leanne Morgan, Southern Charm Premiere w Charley Manley, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives & RHOC Reunion