Ep 530 - Novak's House (feat. Brandon Novak)

Speaker 1 Wow, wow, Wes.

Speaker 1 Mr. Novak, how you doing, bro? Man, uh, how you like the mister? I've been trying to be way more respectful lately.
Have you? Mr., yeah.

Speaker 2 Mr. Would just fucking piss me off.

Speaker 1 Fuck you. You don't like a mister? No.

Speaker 2 I love mister. I just feel like

Speaker 2 I feel like it's like an authoritative figure. Yeah, you don't like it.
I don't, I, I, I, I don't like a problem with like

Speaker 2 authority and conforming.

Speaker 1 Where's the authority problem you think come from?

Speaker 2 My fucking father. Yeah, bro.
He was a crazy drug addict, hell's angel guy.

Speaker 2 guy but he was still authoritative he was still like in his own demonic fucked up way you know what i mean like he was uh really disconnected from reality and and he lived in his own world and his own world looked like uh he rode with the hells angels and and everything was transactional a business while under the influence of crack or fucking meth and uh

Speaker 2 So like he, you know, he was the guy that like he would come home at 2.33 in the morning and when he was awake, the whole fucking house was awake, and everyone was going to wake up to sit on the sofa to watch him and his biker buddies party.

Speaker 2 So, authoritative in that approach. I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 Sam, I thought I had a problem with authority. I just have an Irish Catholic father who spanked my heine, and I'm like, Yeah, dude, I don't know what that is.

Speaker 1 That was a red dream for me, you cocksucker.

Speaker 1 Fuck off.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying. I'm like, I have a fucking authority problem.
Mine must be nothing because I think that is real. The link to authority problems is just your relationship with your dad.

Speaker 2 And my mother's go-to my whole life as a child growing up. She's like, and when I just couldn't figure out

Speaker 2 about she's like you know we should put you in the marines like if you don't

Speaker 1 you think i want a muscle jacked waking up at 4 a.m to 5 000 push-ups you can off yeah that would spaz you i i have a uh one of my moms someone like my mom knows got dishonorably discharged just i from what i heard of just being waking up and being like get the away from me and they're like dude you're out of here dude that is

Speaker 2 that approach does not work with me yeah i wouldn't think so well because i already am wired with like

Speaker 2 if it doesn't make sense to me it's wrong yeah you know what i mean yeah so like right out of the gate i have a lot of shit going against me there's a lot of things don't make sense to me so i walk around like wrong wrong could do better should do better but yeah so it's what i've learned in life for me is that it's all about approach right and and today it's much easier for me coming from a position of simply understanding as opposed to being understood Yeah, you know, so like I just accept you for where you're at, the the the jar head for where he or she's at, you know, and and and just it's cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was something that blew my mind during COVID. And I've like mentioned this before, but I still can't get over it.

Speaker 1 Like I would, I didn't realize how much I did this, but like, especially during like, like, so before COVID, I didn't know that I was really doing this, but I'd go through a supermarket and like.

Speaker 1 Every person I saw, it would just be this like weird invisible battle in my head where I'd be like, look at this fucking guy's fucking pussy jerk off.

Speaker 1 Then I would see a lady and like, fucking chick's not even hot. Is she looking at me? No, she's not fucking patient.

Speaker 1 And you're doing this like crazy maniacal thing in your head. And then COVID, it came to a fever pitch because there was like the mask first, no mask.

Speaker 1 And then it was like, it was just like, it just all came to a head where I was like, dude, why am I this stressed while taking a walk?

Speaker 1 And I started doing a thing where, like, when I would be out at a grocery store, I would really focus on not having like a silent battle against people and instead just like wishing strangers well and like, like you were saying, exuding that, whatever that energy is.

Speaker 1 Dude, I felt so much more comfortable in public after that. Yeah.
Which was like, it was like a revelation for me.

Speaker 2 I love um being right-sized by humanity um it just happened to me recently and i'm really good at like again i i really have dove into this whole spiritual aspect of of of my reality and and believing when you say right size sorry what do you mean like um my ego will allow me to create these delusional narratives that aren't even fucking real uh and then when i'm proved wrong when i really believe i'm right i'm like dude i am a fucking asshole and it just happened you're a philly guy right you'll relate to this story i was had a crazy weekend.

Speaker 2 I was in New York, all kinds of stuff going on. I drive back and I have like these weekly dinners at this place in Fishtown Sunday nights.

Speaker 2 And, you know, Fishtown's kind of oversaturated with a lot of hipsters. And in my mind, hipsters are just kind of...
tattooed, bearded, angry people for no fucking reason.

Speaker 2 It's not like they lack resources or chance, whatever.

Speaker 2 I create this narrative. So I had a long weekend and I'm trying to park under the L to go to this restaurant I go to.

Speaker 2 And there's this ice cream truck, and it's fucking just submerged with hipsters getting ice cream, and that's cool, right?

Speaker 2 But as I'm doing this three-point turn, someone I've actually like, oh, he's fucking pissed, dude. He's going to fucking, he's got a problem.
So now I haven't even seen the person.

Speaker 1 I'm ready.

Speaker 2 And I'm like the most fucking passive aggressive. Like, I cringe at the thought of confrontation, but if you caught me on the right time, I'm like, it's fucking on.
Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2 So, so as I'm parking, I see him and it's a hipster with tattoos and a beard who I already have created an issue with, but I don't even know this person. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he locks eyes with me as I'm hoping he would so we can fucking get to it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he goes, oh shit, you're so-and-so. And I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 2 And he goes, dude, I fucking love your work, man.

Speaker 2 And he had a camera in his hand and he was taking portraits and still talked to the family.

Speaker 1 He's like, can I get a photo of you?

Speaker 2 He said, what I do. And I'm like, dude, fuck yes and fuck me.
Right. Because like I walk around just like at times.

Speaker 2 And that's that's what I mean by really enjoying being right size because

Speaker 2 I have a job sometimes that consists of knowing everything. Right.
And that places me in a lot of positions that I don't really like to enjoy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you say you have a job of knowing, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 Because like, you know, for so long when I was caught up in addiction, right?

Speaker 2 When

Speaker 2 logical people who knew how to stay sober would suggest to me what I might want to do in order to save my life, I'd suggest why they should fuck off. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because I knew, I knew, I know, I know, I know. I was too smart for my own goddamn good.

Speaker 2 And then I got to this place where the pain became so unbearable. I was able to look back and recognize that like every common denominator and every one of my problems was me.

Speaker 2 And maybe if I just get the fuck out of my way, I might stand a chance of living a better life. And what I do know is that I don't know.
Because when I think that I know, there's no open mind.

Speaker 2 I am not teachable. And I'm definitely not willing to try anything that I don't agree with.
Yeah, yeah. Which just sets me up for a fucking,

Speaker 2 you know, all these terrible experiences.

Speaker 1 Yeah, take me back through that. So what was like, how did you,

Speaker 1 like, what's your story? Like, how did you get in that? Obviously, you're saying like, you know, family or, you know, home life, not great.

Speaker 1 And then like eventually to like, you know, gaining a ton of notoriety, like, what was that like for you going from like the beginning to like the thick of all that stuff?

Speaker 2 Well, it was, it's, you know, it's a, it's a very

Speaker 2 interesting

Speaker 2 narrative and storyline, I believe.

Speaker 2 Because I come from Baltimore and you're obviously from Pennsylvania, So there's a lot of similarities at this table.

Speaker 2 But coming from that home life of a pretty chaotic household and a father who was pretty out of his fucking mind,

Speaker 2 I believe I was genetically predisposed to addiction or alcoholism. And that paired with the atmosphere I was brought up in, it just made sense.

Speaker 2 But throughout that journey, I was blessed with a skateboard and I fell in love with skateboarding.

Speaker 2 Another guy from Baltimore named Bucky Lasic, who...

Speaker 1 I played him on Tony Hawk for sure. He's my fucking,

Speaker 2 he's the man. He's the one.
And he was from Baltimore and he kind of recognized the talents I possessed. So he took me under his wing and got me sponsored by PAL.

Speaker 2 And that's where the skateboarding world took off. But then we would go to Cheap Skates in Pennsylvania, the skate park.

Speaker 1 Was it Boards and Blades or what?

Speaker 2 Boards and Blades was later.

Speaker 2 And that was right off Route 1, right there.

Speaker 1 I was a young boy at Boards and Blades, and you would see like Bam. Yeah, we all come through, and I'd be like, oh, we filmed some of the CKY shit there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the stunts and stuff.
Yeah. Naked Dave doing an ollie over the pyramid and then Bam, I think, kicking him or punching him or something like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was always legendary. You guys would come, we were all like 12, we'd be like, oh, dude, fuck.
Yeah, yeah. Like they're trying to do one heel flip, like, this fucking rules, dude.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get sponsored.

Speaker 2 It's it. Pro board coming.

Speaker 2 As soon as I get this heel flip. Yeah.

Speaker 1 These are coming. Spitfire is coming for me, dude.

Speaker 2 Need a manager at this point.

Speaker 1 Too overwhelming.

Speaker 2 But nonetheless, so I meet Bam, and then we at that skate park called Cheapskates, which was was clearly before your time. If Boards and Blades was when you started.

Speaker 2 Where was Cheapskates? I don't know. It was in Pennsylvania and we would drive up.
Right on.

Speaker 2 And Bam would always be there. And he wasn't sponsored at that point.
Bucky and I were.

Speaker 2 And we were instantaneously became thickest thieves.

Speaker 2 And we'd practice for this one contest every year, which was the NSAs. They'd have in Bricktown, New Jersey.
Okay. And either he would win or I'd win.
And one year I didn't show up.

Speaker 2 And he was there and he went to Bucky and he's like, yo, Bucky, where's Novak? And Bucky's like, I think he's on heroin. And bam, at such a young age is like, well, what's that? Right.

Speaker 2 And not such a young age, like 12, 13. That was like 16, 17.
But

Speaker 2 when you're consumed in like a nice, wholesome life that revolves around skateboarding and a good family, like you don't have conversations that consist of those words. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 so it was at that point that his career in skateboarding totally excelled and took off and mine went to complete shit and I chose to pursue a life of heroin and addiction.

Speaker 2 Fast forward some time later,

Speaker 2 I'm really sick one day. I can't come up with any money.
But at this point, I wouldn't even acknowledge a skateboarder, right?

Speaker 2 It was like, it was the equivalent of like looking at the woman you like get away, the love of your life.

Speaker 2 You're like, dude, if I just did a little, like, so it hurt me like that. Yeah.
So I'd avoid skateboarding like the plague. But one day I was really sick and I couldn't come up with money.

Speaker 2 So I decided to go to this skate shop in Fells Point called Select.

Speaker 2 And I asked, when I get there to try to get some money, like, we're not going to give you money, but Bam was here yesterday with the toy machine team. And he asked if we ever saw you.
We said, no.

Speaker 2 And he said, well, if you do, give him my number.

Speaker 2 So he leaves his number. And a couple of days later, I call and it was the number to Fairman's skate shop in town.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And

Speaker 2 I call Fairman's, right? Timing is everything in life. I call Fairman's.
It's not even his skate. It's not his house.
It's Fairman's. I'm a homeless heroin addict.

Speaker 2 I pump in some change into the fucking pay phone, right? And this changes like my lifeline, right? So I got my finger on the thing. Like, if it don't answer, I don't get

Speaker 2 for the money.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, but Dave answers.

Speaker 2 He's like, yo, he was just here. He's next door at Kuma, which is the sushi restaurant in town.

Speaker 1 He's like, hold on, I'll go get him.

Speaker 2 So he goes and gets him, comes back. And then that night, I'm on a Greyhound bus from Baltimore to Westchester.
And he's like, yo, come live with me.

Speaker 2 You know, you can, you can, at this point, he had done the CKYs

Speaker 2 and then Viva Bam had just started. And he allowed me to be a guest on the show and started to get paid by Viacom.
And I could do all this shit. I just couldn't.
I could have a credit card.

Speaker 2 I could live at his house rent-free. I just wasn't allowed to do heroin.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 That was the stipulation. No problem.
I was cool with like Coke and alcohol because that was like, I wouldn't steal your shit when I wanted more Coke.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 That makes sense. So, so that was kind of how I, like, and then throughout that process,

Speaker 2 Bam would always be like, yo, your stories are like the fun. He always loved the positions I ended up in as a direct result of my heroin addiction.

Speaker 2 Like letting gay men shave my asshole for rent money and fucking, you know, letting men blow me for more dope and just getting stabbed in the head with an ink pen and fucking like all this nonsense.

Speaker 2 So he's like, yo,

Speaker 2 you can live at the house. And now I'm starting to get appearances in jackass.
He's bringing me along and he kind of calls me like his walking television. But

Speaker 2 he then one night, we would go to Killed Airs after a rap. We'd rap for the day cast and the crew would go there and humongous table of like 40 or 50 in a bar.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he'd like, tell this story, tell that story. And you could literally hear a pin drop.
And it was then that he's like, yo, you're going to write a book.

Speaker 2 Now, I had, I had not graduated high school at this point. I had no GED.
I had nothing.

Speaker 2 I had no part of ever wanting to write a book. He's like, you're going to write a book.
He gives me a notebook and a pen and he goes, you're to carry this around all the time.

Speaker 2 He's like, I don't give a fuck if I don't even see you writing in it. You have to have it in your hand.
The first time I don't see it in your hand, you're going back to Baltimore. Damn.

Speaker 2 So, like, the scales of justice were very equal there, easy to weigh out. Like, homeless in Baltimore, letting men blow me for heroin, or carry this fucking notebook and pen around and write my story

Speaker 2 and still be on a TV show, drive a car, credit card, paid by Viacom, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And you were maintaining sobriety, like relative sobriety. No, no, not even completely.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he would like

Speaker 2 i never was allowed to do what i really wanted to do which was opiates whether it was like percocettes or heroin that was very frowned upon and and he made it very known to everyone in westchester and the people we worked with to not give me any or gotcha so people listened and uh but nonetheless

Speaker 2 and and the second book that i wrote streets of baltimore really dives into this the psychology of an addict or an alcoholic because i knew that i'm being presented this golden ticket right i I can become this household name, making money.

Speaker 2 I can live in this fucking mansion, drive a car, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I know that it's only a matter of time before the rug gets pulled out front of me. Like, because I can't stop getting high.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he's cool with the Coke and the alcohol and because, and they don't really understand addiction at that point.

Speaker 2 But like inside of me, I can't wait to get back to Baltimore to fuck. So I'd tell him lies, like, I have to go back and get my favorite pair of jeans.

Speaker 2 And I'd fucking go back and end up there for three weeks. Damn.
And just lost in Baltimore shooting dope.

Speaker 2 So he'd kick me out. I'd go to rehab and a lot of wash rinse repeats of that.
Sure, yeah. Later on,

Speaker 2 he then comes with this new idea. I'm going to write this book.
I have no desire to write a book, but I had read a book called A Million Little Pieces by James Frey. A brilliant book.

Speaker 2 And I love the outline of that. So I'm no fool by any means.
And I went and I just copied his outline and I wrote a fucking 12 chapters, pen to paper, right? No laptop, anything.

Speaker 2 And my co-author is a man named Joe Franz, who made all the CKY videos,

Speaker 2 filmed the Viva La Bams and Jackass. And he did not want that job, but Bam was like, dude, you're going to do this.
Cause no one wanted to work with me. I was like, I was not a good fucking employee.

Speaker 2 My behavior was rather erratic, to say the least.

Speaker 2 But he made him kind of do this. And then a year later, I'm like, yo, I think I'm finished.
And Bam started reading. He's like, dude, this is really something.
So then he gives it to Joe.

Speaker 2 Joe turns 12 chapters into 23.

Speaker 2 And we get a literary agent off of bam bam's manager finds me a literary agent shops around and and it gets fucking picked up and it does like really really well what was it this is your first book the first book dream seller dream seller that's a nice title which which was fucking i mean that's what i did for a living right like i'd make people believe the unbelievable i'd build your hopes up to like make you believe that like it was going to be different this time yeah just in hopes for you to believe in me enough for me to get some cash out of you yeah to only apologize and just to wash rinse repeat yeah yeah and that's kind of what my life looked like for a long time.

Speaker 2 But that's how I ended up in all these places and doing all these things that what I didn't know then that's really rad now is,

Speaker 2 you know, that's life. It's live forward and learn backwards.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I didn't see that I was kind of being tasked with this fucked up position of addiction or alcoholism to then be later on blessed with the recovery.

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Speaker 2 And use the very same platform that I gained notoriety from as being just this fuck up drug addict alcoholic to be in this guy that's like, yo, if you want help, like I will help you.

Speaker 2 I have all these avenues to like get you out of where I once was.

Speaker 1 Yeah, can you put that into words?

Speaker 1 I always, I'm always kind of fascinated by that when it's like, because it is obvious to anyone who's done on drugs, we know someone who's on drugs, you're like, dude, if you just don't do drugs, you won't have as many problems.

Speaker 1 And they're like,

Speaker 2 I have to do them.

Speaker 1 Sure. It's like, how do you, what is like the thought, is it even a thought process or is it just like like, a genuine, just like

Speaker 1 urge?

Speaker 2 At that point in time for me, um,

Speaker 2 I got to a place in life where

Speaker 2 any person, place, or thing that stood between me and a bag of heroin must and will go. And it was never personal.
It was just business, right?

Speaker 2 Because I'm a good guy with a great heart, and I was raised by a loving mother who taught me. to show kindness and compassion to humanity, but don't catch me when I'm withdrawing.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? So it's like, so what I, you know, I own treatment centers today, I own sober living houses.

Speaker 2 I'm totally merged in that world. And the truth of the matter is,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 we are amazing people that have been diagnosed with a deadly disease that makes us make terrible decisions. That's the reality of it.
Yeah. At least my story.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So you're saying like,

Speaker 1 I'm so like the process of like having, I guess, that urge urge versus like, you know, like you said, in some way, you kind of know, like, yeah, this isn't going to go well. So I remember

Speaker 2 prime example, we were kind of getting into it a little bit before we got on. I had just done a year in George W.
Hill Correctional Facility, right?

Speaker 2 They let me out New Year's Eve.

Speaker 2 I'm living in Westchester and. And I have an amazing fiancé at the time who's now my ex because they continue to get between me and drugs.

Speaker 1 So they had to fucking go.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 she's moved our home while I was incarcerated. She redecorated it, really tried to love my addiction out of me.
And I wanted to be done with it. I really did.
That night I was released.

Speaker 2 I called up one of my buddies who rode with the pagans who partied with us in Westchester. And

Speaker 2 he brought over some Pergas at 30s and a couple Xanax. Now, I had been sober for a year up to this point.
And I'm on parole. Like, I know what the deal is if I fuck up.

Speaker 2 I find myself in Ryan's pub in Westchester because I live live right down the street and I told my chick, because she'd watch me like a canine.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I just have to go up here to say hi to some, whatever. And I go and I'm in the pub and I'm sitting on the toilet in the toilet paper dispensaries to my right.

Speaker 2 And I crush up two Percocet 30s and a half of Xanax. And I have it in my bill fold.
And I'm about to put it in my nose and sniff it. And I'm literally.
crying,

Speaker 2 uncontrollably crying.

Speaker 2 I can't stop crying because I know that as soon as I do this, I'm going to begin that behavioral pattern that takes me where I don't want to go and makes me do things I don't want to do, but I can't control myself.

Speaker 2 You know, like, like, there's no

Speaker 2 room for logic at that point. Jesus, man.

Speaker 2 And that's, that's kind of what my day in, day out looked like for a long time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good explanation of it. Because, yeah, I know it's not like a thing with like words.
It's just kind of like you know, you also don't. And it's like, it's pretty fucking rugged, man.

Speaker 2 And I remember, remember, and I remember that night. I'm in the bathroom.
I'm doing this. And I could hear people out in Ryan.
You know where Ryan's is. And they're having a good time.

Speaker 2 They're waiting for the ball to drop. They're laughing.
They're fucking playing. They're cheersing.

Speaker 2 And I'm in the stall just crying uncontrollably with a fucking rolled-up bill up my nose, getting ready to sniff

Speaker 2 everything I love away.

Speaker 2 And that's what addiction is

Speaker 2 as a whole. But

Speaker 2 it didn't start that way, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
How did you end up starting to do heroin? Because that was like a big jump from like stadiums to like, was it the pills first?

Speaker 2 It was the fucking hallmark progression, you know, the alcohol, the weed, stealing the herb from the dad, and then the blow because he sold a lot of blow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Things just progressively got worse, but mine was genetics. So, you know, I have a mother who was a nuclear physicist.
I have a brother who is an attorney who works in the White House. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 I have a sister who works in the hospital my mother ran, but they are by a different father. I'm the only one by my father.
Gotcha. He was an addict and his father was an addict.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I believe I was fucked from the gate. Yeah, that's

Speaker 2 the thing now is that like

Speaker 2 it's like, you know, my poison has become my medicine and like it's turned out to be the biggest blessing that's ever happened in my life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is the thing. I feel like addiction, it is like a, it's almost like a weird spiritual practice if you think about it.

Speaker 1 You just kind of like, rather than like meditating, you're just getting so fucking high all the time that your life just collapses.

Speaker 1 And And then now you have to really kind of, it gives people, I think, a deeper appreciation for life if they make it through it. That's my first time.
And that's the thing, right?

Speaker 2 Because here's the reality. And this is why people are so just like frustrated with battling the disease of addiction.

Speaker 2 Statistics state theoretical evidence dictates that I or anyone else that is sober are to be high or dead, right?

Speaker 2 Like the data collected, the analytic, analytics fucking from all over these studies that are given states that the majority of people die as opposed to fine sobriety. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I remember getting out of my last facility and,

Speaker 2 you know, bam was always a constant theme throughout my life.

Speaker 2 And I stopped over and I saw him and he's like, what the fuck? What was different about number 13 treatment center? Why not 12 or 10 or six or four or three?

Speaker 2 He's like, what did you have, like a meeting with God or something? And I didn't say it to him because it's just too much for one to grasp. But in my mind, I'm like, yeah, I kind of did.

Speaker 1 Really? And that's what I've heard before. Wasn't that what AA was founded on? The guy Bill.

Speaker 1 Went to Carl Jung, and he was like, bro, either find God or you're toast. Yeah.
In a way.

Speaker 2 So, so, you know, I'm not religious. I don't particularly care for organized religion.
Sure. But I'm insanely spiritual.
And it's like.

Speaker 2 Where is my spirituality if I judge your spirituality? So like

Speaker 2 acceptance is the answer to all in world. For sure.

Speaker 2 But I didn't understand that. See,

Speaker 2 the truth of the matter is, and this is a blanket statement that I'll make for anyone that's in addiction or in recovery, is that we didn't get here because we took the short bus to school.

Speaker 2 Quite the contrary, we end up here because we're too smart for our own fucking good.

Speaker 2 And then I land in a seat of a 12-step meeting or a treatment center that literally has the ability to save my life. And I fuck around and outthink myself right out of it.
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 Because recovery is one of those weird things that works so well. People stop fucking doing it.
Yeah. Think about it.
it it's such a mind fuck yeah right um

Speaker 2 so what i didn't know is that like the last thing i tried was the first thing that worked right because i i was just too smart for my own good and i wasn't quite willing to buy into the process i it worked great for you guys but i'm i'm a bit different yeah yeah that's everyone i've known

Speaker 2 i'm not one of those guys yeah yeah yeah for sure and uh And at the end, when I was optionless, literally, I was homeless, I was moneyless, I was friendless, I was carless, loveless, just that was me.

Speaker 2 I had no other choice but to buy into the process. I didn't even want to do it then.
I begrudgingly did it, but like, fuck it. I have the time and no one's expecting or requesting my fucking presence.

Speaker 2 So let's run it. And the craziest thing happened is it started to work.
I experienced the 12 steps. And what happened throughout the 12 steps is I had a spiritual experience.

Speaker 2 And the definition of a spiritual experience is simply a psychic change, meaning that I, Brandon Novak today, no longer look at things the way I did then.

Speaker 1 Do you remember what kind of kicked that off exactly, or was it just kind of pain? Yeah, pain.

Speaker 2 I had to end up in a place where the pain was so fucking unbearable, right? Like, like to where my back was against the wall, and I

Speaker 2 had nothing else to do to get myself out of the position that I had created for myself.

Speaker 1 How long did that take? How long did that take of like doing hair run?

Speaker 2 Fucking well, my overall resume with alcoholism and addiction was 22 years. Okay, wow.
So, but you know, the last 10 were really bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, what did that look like in terms of like that? You're saying like the personal pain?

Speaker 1 Was it like, like, obviously, like, there's probably physical discomfort and all that stuff, but like, just like alienation from everyone you've ever known?

Speaker 1 Were you like kind of like kicking yourself over like how much better things could have went? Like, what was like the real primer?

Speaker 2 All of the above. But what I didn't know then that I know now is that each one of my attempts at trying to find recovery were not failures, despite me thinking they were.

Speaker 2 Because like I would, I would use in treatment, I'd get kicked out, I'd leave, I'd use the same day. And as any blessing happens to anyone, it happens unbeknownst to us, right?

Speaker 2 Like if I knew when and where a blessing was taking place and I was to report there to receive said blessing, I'd fuck that up, right?

Speaker 2 So like I had to be put in this place where these seeds were being planted, unbeknownst to me.

Speaker 2 And then finally, on that day where the appropriate amount of pain was created, where it became so unbearable that I was finally willing to do what I had never been willing to do, which is become open-minded just long enough to pick that phone up, ask for help, and then the craziest thing ever, but fucking follow through with it.

Speaker 2 I started to see that like none of this was what I thought. a failure.
Like it all played its part when it was supposed to. So that finally when the opportunity met the appropriate time, uh uh

Speaker 2 an event was going to take place that was going to create this outcome unlike anything that i could wrap my feeble mind around and and i saw on my way into that last treatment center like it it's like the skies parted and i walked across the sea and everything they said made sense and just like it hit me and i knew that like i get it it makes sense now yeah

Speaker 1 it all makes sense and so you knew even just heading while on the way there you're like just something yeah

Speaker 2 because they they would be like dude you

Speaker 2 you know i own facilities now and my favorite thing is to run groups with my clients and and i can't get enough of that and i'm like who in here thinks that you're in here because of drugs and alcohol and the majority of them raised their hands and i'm like you're all fucking wrong that that's not why we're here

Speaker 2 the drug and the alcohol is not the problem So right out of the gate, no wonder you keep repeating your behaviors because you're fighting the wrong fucking opponent. You're in the wrong ring.

Speaker 2 You're going to lose every time.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 The

Speaker 2 problem is the thinking and the attitude and the behavior. Right.

Speaker 2 So as long as I continue to repeat the behaviors, I'm going to repeat the outcomes where I end up in a place where the only answer is a shot of heroin or a glass of wine. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So once I realized the alcohol is the solution, not the problem, I've now identified

Speaker 2 who my opponent is. It's my behaviors.
So I had to change my behaviors to change the outcomes. I started to then gain a better understanding of the reality of my situation.

Speaker 2 And what I learned learned is the reason why I got beat so bad is because, A, I always underestimated the opponent that I was up against because I was the great I am.

Speaker 2 And B, I never gave it the time, attention, or respect it deserved.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And you're talking, when you say that, you mean like yourself, basically? Because it sounds to me like it's like.

Speaker 1 Like you were saying like, yeah, I have fucking heroin. Fucking keep

Speaker 1 making me fucking do it. When in reality, it is like it's yourself.
And nobody, even without drugs, nobody wants to admit that they're a complete problem. Exactly.

Speaker 2 And again, this isn't you just substitute the word drugs for whether you're things porn sex food shopping gambling fighting fucking whatever yeah right these are the solutions to the problem and you were talking about it during covet right you brought prior to covet you'd walk around with all these narratives of these people and then all of a sudden in covet and it made me think of it

Speaker 2 We were kind of forced to be with ourselves by ourselves to look at ourselves, which is what we avoid by fucking, fighting, betting, shopping. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And then i i start to look at me which is why i got high for so long right to escape the shitty reality i created for myself as a direct result of continuing to shoot dope

Speaker 2 and uh and and and then finally when i got to a place where i could start looking at me i realized that i'm the problem right there there is no their part and the longer i think that there is a their part as to why i'm this way i'm just the victim so now i'm going to drink because of my shitty life and you would too if you had a life like mine i'll justify why

Speaker 1 right the brain is the fucking problem in every area of life yeah dude it does it can fuck you up man you can yeah it can really you up you can do anything and just be like

Speaker 1 get something in your head like oh i'm not gonna

Speaker 2 and then it just snowballs yeah it's kind of up it's insane but if you if you you're aware of it then it's worth its weight in gold yeah and now like the longer i stay sober the more work that i do it's amazing what i do know is that i don't fucking know and i don't take credit for any of this.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How long have you been sober for?

Speaker 2 Coming up on 10 years.

Speaker 1 Oh, nice. It's been a while.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And now all I do, I dumb my way into this shit. Yeah.
And now I always say I came into like sobriety as a king and I worked my way up the ladder to become a humble servant.

Speaker 2 And the more people I help, the more I give away, the better my life is, the more I gain in return, which makes no sense. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 Like in any business transaction, if I give you something I have, I'm to walk away with less. In this weird, magical spiritual world of recovery, anything that I give you, I'm walking away with more.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude. I remember that was like a weird shock for me.
When I, I used to, I went to school for social work for a while a couple years ago. And I would get like inmates housing.

Speaker 1 That was like a thing I did for one of the field placements. And then there was this one guy who was a fucking pain in my ass.

Speaker 1 He'd always like call me and just be like, you're not doing shit, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 1 He was under the gun because they were going to take his kid, you know, a bunch of shit if he didn't find appropriate housing. And I remember the day I found him a house.

Speaker 1 We're both in this place and I called him up. I was like, yo, dude, we got it.
And he, like, we both were so happy. And I was like, that was such a funny

Speaker 1 for something so dumb. I mean, it's a big deal.
It's a house. But I remember like I won this like comedy contest and I was like, this is it.
And then I got the guy house.

Speaker 1 And it was literally the same feeling. Again, it was the same exact feeling of like.

Speaker 2 Timing and opportunity meeting to create a beautiful outcome.

Speaker 1 But it is a weird thing.

Speaker 1 That was like a weird thing for me when I was like, oh, you can get just as happy for doing nice things for people as you can, like, you know, achieving some sort of personal victory.

Speaker 2 Anti-monetary fucking victory. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And it's like, it is honestly, I would argue that, like, when you, when you do something like awesome for a person, I think it feels better than if you like, if you just like kill it in some way with like a sales thing.

Speaker 1 Straight up.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And, you know, and that's the thing.
No matter how much

Speaker 2 for me, what I did for the majority of my life is I just like rearranged the furniture on the Titanic

Speaker 1 for years.

Speaker 2 And I swore that this way was going to be the proper placement to make sure my sip doesn't sink.

Speaker 1 And I would always do that.

Speaker 2 And then I learned that like

Speaker 2 it is what it is, right? Stop overcomplicating a simple process.

Speaker 2 And because the world kept right-sizing me and I just kind of took me out of the equation. I thought less and just did more because I surrounded myself with like people who genuinely

Speaker 2 were also really good people that were just trying to make humanity a little bit better today than it was yesterday.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is a nice thing. And it's one of those things, too.
It's one of those things I think people sneer at. They're like, making the world better.
It's like, sure.

Speaker 1 What the fuck else are you going to do, dude? Yeah, just be a dickhead all the time. But it's like, I feel bad for it personally.

Speaker 1 It's like, so you have, you know, people, they go through, you know, drug addiction. There's like, this whole thing.
It's like, you know, everyone, when you know, I would imagine you're a drug addict.

Speaker 1 There's like a part of it, like, everyone knows I'm an addict. People are talking shit on me.
Everyone, blah, blah, blah. But then almost like you reach a point where you're like, I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 1 And that's like a very freeing experience eventually.

Speaker 1 Whereas there's people who don't ever, you know, fall into a deep drug addiction, but they never get to really face their own like self-defeating mental patterns.

Speaker 1 And in a way, it's almost like the person, in my opinion, who goes through addiction and gets out of that ends up having, I think, a richer existence than if you never really have to face that or come like face to face with yourself and like really look at yourself.

Speaker 1 Because there's people who get through life

Speaker 1 good on, you know, on paper, but it's like, you know, they're tortured. Absolutely.
It's like, I always thought that was like a shame.

Speaker 2 I couldn't agree with that sentiment anymore. That's a spot-on fucking

Speaker 1 example. Because everyone I know who's in recovery is like, they're very open.

Speaker 1 And I almost like you can tell. It's like, okay, this person really has turned a corner because it's like something, something switches.
And it's like,

Speaker 1 nobody really knows exactly what that is, but it really is. The only, the most consistent factor is having some sort of spiritual experience or like, you know, like an awakening experience.

Speaker 2 Studies show, studies show that

Speaker 1 people

Speaker 1 that do what other

Speaker 2 the studies show that sober people that do what other sober people do in order to to stay sober have better odds of staying sober. So, like, there's not a black and white one size fits all.

Speaker 2 And you can try another method or another avenue that could equate to the same result. But I got to a point where the stakes were way too high and I was tired of rolling the dice.

Speaker 2 And I kind of wanted to start working smarter, not harder. So I just bought into what the group does in order to stay sober.
But the funny thing was, and you said it,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 it's all a thinking problem, right? And I always have this alcoholic brain that lies to me, my own voice, and it always makes me believe the unbelievable. And it creates these delusional narratives.

Speaker 2 And I walked around for years thinking that no one in this world knew that I had a problem but me. Oh, really? Yeah.
Like I thought that I was kind of keeping it contained

Speaker 2 just enough to continue to enable my behaviors, which is getting high and justifying the outcomes. Which that's crazy.

Speaker 1 You really didn't think people were like hip to you at all.

Speaker 2 Not nearly as much. So I didn't, right? I thought that no one in the world knew that I had a problem but me.

Speaker 2 And then when I finally bought into the process, what I learned is that everyone in the world knew that I had a problem but me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. I was the last person.

Speaker 2 Why? Because I possessed that job that consists of knowing everything. That's really funny.
And I'm like, fuck.

Speaker 2 And that's what I, I, again,

Speaker 1 right.

Speaker 2 I, I was ignorant to the process and the reality of my alcoholism. Because I lived off of justification and minimization and deflection, right? If, if only

Speaker 2 she didn't come home from work early, she wouldn't have found my needles on the table.

Speaker 2 If only the parole officer's fucking husband would have banged her out, she would have been mad and gave me a piss test that fucking got me dirty and sentenced me to six months.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So finally, the craziest thing happened. I started to take accountability for my actions and started pointing the finger inward and realizing that, whoa, like it's me and my behaviors.

Speaker 2 And I started changing my behaviors and I started changing the outcomes and i started to like the results i got so it snowball affected into this yeah yeah it's just crossing that like threshold to even consider the possibility it was so simple though i missed it yeah i overlooked it yeah dude i think most people go their whole life without ever saying it but just you know everyone says what's the answer what's the answer what's the answer If any of us had the answer, we would bottle that thing, we'd sell it, we'd be a billionaire a billion times over.

Speaker 2 That's true. I believe it's so simple as just helping one fucking person.
Someone took the time to stop and help me. I in turn helped another.

Speaker 2 Two turn into four, four turn into eight, eight turn into 16. Before you know it, you're changing the narrative, which is ultimately changing the outcome.

Speaker 2 It's so simple. Just slow down the process and help one person.

Speaker 4 Pardon the interruption. This may or may not be Sean Gardini speaking.
And this may or may not be Sean Gardini on camera. Who is speaking and who is on camera is not important.

Speaker 4 I've come to tell you that Sean Gardini is doing stand-up comedy shows.

Speaker 4 The upcoming shows are in Cleveland, Ohio, December 8th, Buffalo, New York, December 10th, and Baltimore, Maryland, December 11th. Please come to those shows if you can.

Speaker 4 The tickets are at SeanGardini.com. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Hear me out here. I failed to promote my shows in the Irvine Improv.
SoCal.

Speaker 1 I'm so fucking SoCal.

Speaker 1 I forgot to do the ads or make a flyer for the Irvine show oops my bad it's next weekend thanksgiving weekend friday november 29th saturday november 30th two days faux shows come out to motherfucking irvine improv um

Speaker 1 and i'll be honest i'm not just saying i'm not just saying this because i'm doing a show i love irvine there's irvine was the first place i went to in california and i i was telling someone recently i'm like i fucking love irvine and they lived in la and like you love Are you like, are you kidding?

Speaker 1 Are you trying to be funny? I'm like, no, why? And apparently everyone from LA just snubs Irvine. Like, I would never.
Fuck you guys, dude. Irvine rules.
LA's fucking bullshit.

Speaker 1 Irvine, we're talking Laguna Beach. We're talking motherfucking Newport Beach, conservative ass stronghold down there in SoCal, dude.
Shit.

Speaker 1 Come out. I love Irvine.
It's literally the first place I went to in California. I'm very excited to go there.
I'm going to bring my whole motherfucking family.

Speaker 1 We're all going to do Thanksgiving out there.

Speaker 2 It's going to be sick.

Speaker 1 So, Irvine Improv, Friday, November 29th, Saturday, November 30th. Let's go.
Let's show these LA fucking pussies, dude, who's really fucking SoCal. They're not fucking SoCal.

Speaker 1 They're North Vervine, bruh. Yeah, so how did you get into the recovery homes? When did you start that? And like, what was that like?

Speaker 2 I had, I had, my get-well job was washing dishes for $6 an hour in Levittown, Pennsylvania

Speaker 2 at a diner called Mary Ann's. At 38 years old, I'm busting suds in the back with a co-worker who's fucking 14.

Speaker 2 My brain told me that, and this is after skating, jackass, fucking author. Yeah, yeah.
My brain told me I should have, at the very least, been the president of the United States.

Speaker 2 I fucking busted suds with Brian here for six bucks an hour.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what was that like? Struggling.

Speaker 2 I had heard the word humility, and it sounded fucking cool, and it rolled off the tongue, right?

Speaker 1 But try swallowing that fucking thing.

Speaker 1 I'm 38 right now.

Speaker 2 Imagine fucking you leaving here and going back to Levantown, Pennsylvania to Mary As Diner. Shout out to Rich and they were great guys and

Speaker 2 the owners and busting the sons for six dollars an hour next to a 14 years how long did you do that for one year that's long that's and that and and i

Speaker 2 had no idea what my next move was going to be right because my qualifications didn't state that i had any like you know

Speaker 1 special qualities i know what you mean you can't be like yo let me help on a tv show real quick yeah you're like let me

Speaker 2 i don't own a computer i never i like i skipped that whole i went from skating to heroin i wrote my book pen and paper i i can pawn laptops great i don't use them even to this day, I don't email.

Speaker 2 I don't even. I got my first ever computer during COVID.
I used it seven times and gave it the fuck away. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So are you all like, do you fuck with like the Instagram and all this stuff?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I like that, but like the thought of an app gives me anxiety.

Speaker 1 I got what you're saying, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I'm just like stubborn by nature.

Speaker 1 So so you're you're you're busting the suds for a while. How did you get into the so

Speaker 2 but I started like that job that I thought was so fucking beneath me turned out to be the foundation of of who I am am today. And I think by social standards and regards,

Speaker 2 I could be considered a pretty successful guy. I have all these different businesses and properties and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 But it all came from washing dishes. I started to like show up early.
I'd stay late. I took pride in washing these dishes.
I called out one day in a whole year because of a snowstorm.

Speaker 2 Like those behaviors started to change. And my outcome started to change.
I started to become self-sufficient. For the first time in my life, I was paying my own recovery house bill, $165 a week.

Speaker 2 I was buying my own groceries, my own cigarettes, not relying or depending on anyone.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I stopped like,

Speaker 2 and then what happened was someone asked me to speak at a candlelit vigil, a candlelight vigil for someone who had passed away.

Speaker 2 And because, you know, the 12-step program, AA, you know, it's anonymous. You don't know really what's going on there.

Speaker 2 But when I spoke at that candlelit vigil for people who had lost their lives, someone like had filmed it and it started making its rounds on social media.

Speaker 2 And then an organization reached out to me and they're like,

Speaker 2 Would you like to come speak at our facility in Florida? And I'm like, sure. And they put me up at

Speaker 2 the W in Fort Lauderdale in the penthouse. And I'm like, what the fuck? Are they going to ask me for a donation?

Speaker 1 I wash dishes.

Speaker 2 And they had come up with this whole design. Again, the blessings taking place unbeknownst to me.
If I knew any of this was going to happen, I'd fuck it up royally. Sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 And they had put together this whole plan

Speaker 2 and presented it to me. And I'm like, dude,

Speaker 2 I didn't even know this world existed that I live in today.

Speaker 2 And it just kind of gave way. And I bought into what they would say.
And in those meetings, they'd say, like, in order to keep what you have, you have to give it away. And this is cliche as shit.

Speaker 2 And I vowed to myself that when I was in a position financially, I was going to recreate that sober living house I lived in.

Speaker 3 That's cool.

Speaker 2 And do for others what it had done for me. So literally on my fifth year anniversary, I opened up my, in Wilmington, Delaware, my very first men's sober living house called Novak's House with 10 beds.

Speaker 2 And that has since turned into seven houses for men and women in Wilmington, Delaware with 75 beds. And I

Speaker 2 fucking travel the world and I have generous friends or just strangers that want to give back and they occasionally stroke a check and they provide money that I have in this scholarship fund.

Speaker 2 And my mission is to provide a bed for anyone in need of sober living after completing a treatment center. I refuse to let price be a deterrent as to why someone can't get help.

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Speaker 2 And then, unfortunately, the demand was met. I kept fucking expanding, and I really wished that that wasn't the case, and these didn't even exist.
Sure.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, dude, I can, I can help more and I can be better. So then I created Redemption Addiction Treatment Center in Wilmington, Delaware.
Well, in Newport,

Speaker 2 right next to it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's an outpatient facility where people come during the day, you know, five days a week or nighttime groups.

Speaker 2 And I always tell people,

Speaker 2 I'm trying to, I'm on par to create like a David Koresh Waco Texas compound vibe minus the gun and the fucking religion.

Speaker 2 But I want to create this place where people feel like they want to be a part, right? It's all deliverance. Like I've started this podcast.
It's all with how you present something to me. Right.

Speaker 2 So, so what I try to do is to create this whole fucking environment that people want to be a part at as opposed to feeling like they have to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What's what was your, did you have any like when you went to any treatment centers, did you have ones that you felt like you hear some people like I place a fucking scam.

Speaker 1 They're just fucking taking my money. Like, did you have any places you thought were just like churning people in and out? Or do you think that's just people's like perception of the place?

Speaker 2 I think it's, and it's just opinion-based. I think it's people's perception.

Speaker 2 The treatment center that I ultimately got sober in,

Speaker 2 people would be like, you'll never get sober there. It cost me $2 to get into.
It was a Catholic charities program in Baltimore.

Speaker 2 And if you looked out, you weren't allowed to look out the blinds because if you looked out, they were literally serving dope and Coke and crack on the corner.

Speaker 2 It was like a bottom-of-the-barrel kind of joint. Yeah.
But I believe it takes what it takes until it takes. And who are you or I to say what it will be for it to take? That makes sense.

Speaker 2 It's between you and the maker of whatever you choose to fucking call it. Because they don't, it's not like once you get to this appropriate program, they give you this secret pill for the cool kids.

Speaker 2 It's fucking recycled rhetoric that you hear in all the facilities.

Speaker 1 It's like, fuck. Yeah, that does make sense.

Speaker 2 I believe the perfect treatment center is whichever one you get sober in. Yeah.
And I didn't have a say. I didn't get to pick my sober date.

Speaker 1 Yeah, true.

Speaker 2 Again, that was a blessing.

Speaker 1 You feel like they gave you the right massage.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but finally, they fucking gave me a happy ending with a massage and they played my favorite song. That might turn me around.
And I come God, and then here we are. I'm a spiritual fucking guru.

Speaker 2 Fuck your way into recovery.

Speaker 1 You're right. That's the deal.
Yeah, true. I wish.
There is a very unsexy element to it. What you're saying, like, yeah, you can be in a place that people think sucks really badly.

Speaker 1 It really is a wholly internal process.

Speaker 2 I'm a firm believer you can get sober in a fucking pub sitting on a barstool with a bottle of jack in front of you if you're ready.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Straight up.

Speaker 1 What do you think about like the California sobriety people do where it's like, I'm California sober, I'll like drink and smoke weed and shit.

Speaker 2 Dude, I just did this TMZ thing. They did a special recently with Matthew Perry.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I read his book. Brilliant book, by the way.
Whole newfound respect for that man. Rest in peace to him.
But

Speaker 2 they were doing this hour-long documentary, Harvey and them and they reached out and they wanted me to weigh in on on on it and uh

Speaker 2 and they asked me the same question and the truth of the matter is

Speaker 2 I'd be really ignorant if I sat here and

Speaker 2 pretended to possess the answer of like how to live a perfect life with coming up on 10 years sober. That's like my mother be like fuck you asshole.
You should have did it your whole life, you idiot.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So like all I know is is my narrative because it worked for me.

Speaker 2 I'm never going to tell anybody what you should or should not do.

Speaker 2 I believe with California Sober, with with MAT, Suboxin, Subutex, Vivitrol, Methadone, if it provides you a life that you believe is worth waking up and getting out of bed for every morning without the thought of wanting to kill yourself, I'll fucking drive you to the dispensary.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Like, fuck me for thinking that I have the answer.

Speaker 2 I just have my narrative.

Speaker 2 So, so what I always say is that when I'm kind of giving a talk or working with clients, if you can find more similarities than differences, it might make sense to pay attention.

Speaker 2 But if not, that's cool too. Yeah.
Right. Because everyone at the end of the day, you're entitled to your own process.

Speaker 2 You were entitled to have that realization during COVID of like being a fucking asshole to strangers that did nothing to you.

Speaker 2 And if I would have robbed you of that process, you might not have come to the conclusion that you have today where it's just being kind is the right way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So looking back, if anyone were to rob me of one less fucking sleepless night I caused my mother or pain that I made everyone endure, like I might not be here today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. So it's kind of a personal

Speaker 1 timeline for everybody. For sure.

Speaker 2 And yeah, it's like, and I'm not saying that my way is the right way. It's just my fucking way.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because I know that's a big battle.
When I was in social work school, there's like people who are like, it's called like harm reduction. Sure.

Speaker 1 People who are like, nothing, you better knock on.

Speaker 2 I'm a big harm reduction guy. Yeah.
And at the end of the day, it's like, who the fuck, like, that's between them and their their higher power.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, all of a sudden, I believe I'm God and I can predict what your fucking best outcome will be for your life and your situation. Fuck.

Speaker 1 Yeah, true.

Speaker 2 And I'm a spiritual guy. And if I'm a spiritual guy, like I say I am, where is my spirituality if I judge your spirituality? Yeah.
Right. So like, I believe my higher power is everything.

Speaker 2 I think it's crack. I think it's heroin.
I think it's life, death. It's like, what's love without sadness? What's joy without sorrow? Right.

Speaker 2 You have to have all these, without those fucking overdoses, without life support, without fucking ruining my life.

Speaker 2 I would not be the child of, I hate to say God, because people are like, oh, this religious fuck, but

Speaker 2 a child of God today who I really like do my best to help humanity. I wouldn't be here.
I'd still be in that position of like, what the fuck's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 You think you have it figured out, you fucking idiot. You deserve what you get.
Yeah, yeah. And that's where I'd probably be.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, it is funny. People, I've talked about this before, but it is funny how that is like

Speaker 1 the God talks taboo now. Before it was like, you couldn't talk about sex.

Speaker 1 now you can be like i'm fucking jizzy and everything ah if you're like yeah they had the whole me too movement at that point true yeah yeah that but if you mentioned god people are like what the fuck

Speaker 1 and it's like a pretty wholesome you know it's a i think it's a very wholesome concept but it got tainted by i think people just being like like the religion aspect of being like you're going to hell because you fucking can't for sure

Speaker 2 and that's a shame but

Speaker 2 you need those people right those people are just as important as the other ones that aren't those people to make me realize how much i don't want to be like that Because without those people, I'll turn into that person.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Because I don't have like a

Speaker 2 warning sign or like

Speaker 2 who I don't. I need the bad to remind me what I don't want to become.
So I practice good.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I wonder if that's, if it's going to like, because every, even like religions, like concepts of God, like go through waves where it's like, we used to think it was like fucking fire.

Speaker 1 And now we were like, there was like the mythological hero of like, there's these.

Speaker 1 entities in the sky that we can like you know be like hey please help us that'll like change everything and then like that like around like an organized like testament of like, you know, this is, this is the guy who came down from heaven.

Speaker 1 So now I wonder if it is going to regroup in like some different conception that people will universally buy into over. It'll just be like a fractured thing forever.

Speaker 2 The older I get at 45, I see that things just evolve, but then just come back around. Yeah.
Like, you know.

Speaker 2 I was looking on the plane the other day and there's this chick who has, as you see, these new things are like the big headphones. Apple Pros.
Where like your mom used to have it back in the 80s

Speaker 2 and no one's doing the airbutt pods anymore. It's just like Miami Vice like fucking color schemes and chicks wearing baggy ass jeans have now come back.

Speaker 1 I know. So it's like

Speaker 2 just live long enough and you'll realize that like shit's not that heavy. Yeah.
And it's going to be okay. And the fact of the matter is you don't really have much say so in any of it anyways.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. For me, that's, yeah, that's what I do.
And I just kind of remain like,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 I don't know what I remain. It just depends on what you ask me.

Speaker 1 No, that's true. So, and then, you know, I'm curious too.
So

Speaker 1 you were doing the Viva of the Bam stuff and all that stuff fell out. Like,

Speaker 1 what, so what happened with all of like all the people from Jackass?

Speaker 1 You guys all still talk? Or like, where did, like, was there like a big falling out or like, what happened?

Speaker 2 No, I mean, everyone's good. I was just with Steve-O in L.A.
a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's kind of doing his thing.

Speaker 2 He's killing it.

Speaker 2 Pontius, I love him. I speak with him.
And those two guys I probably speak to more regularly than than the most uh bam

Speaker 2 is you know battling his own demons and um unfortunately because of that we seem to be in two different places where there's just not a lot in common at the moment for sure so we don't really just pick up the phone and chat i think if i had to make a prediction of what would kind of connect us again it would probably be skateboarding you know that's always been the common bond and theme throughout our relationship.

Speaker 1 Do you still skateboard?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but for my mental health now, obviously not like as like yeah, you just, yeah, you just do it for fun. Yeah, I try to carve out time to

Speaker 2 like just get in a van and go with the homies and film and just like shut everything off.

Speaker 1 That's kind of tight.

Speaker 2 Another like, you know, Brandon Turner, shout out to Brandon Turner. He's on the West Coast fucking killing.
He's a sober guy.

Speaker 2 A lot of skaters have become sober and they're kind of doing their own thing with recovery. And I was talking to him yesterday and we're going to fly out.
I'm going to fly out there and

Speaker 2 kind of, we're working on a project together possibly. And you know, so oddly enough, the ones that we used to party and run with and fucking go crazy with have now found like this new way of life.

Speaker 2 It's really attractive. And we join forces to just kind of hopefully promote a healthy way of living.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it is funny, especially if you think about the origins of like jackass was like the possibly unhealthiest. most insane way of living possible.
And it was so fucking fun to watch. It was awesome.

Speaker 1 But it is funny to come full circle and be like, now we've all actually chilled out immensely.

Speaker 2 dude steve-o is like so fucking sober there was a point in time where i thought about asking him to be my sponsor and i'm like dude i i don't know if i want to get like that sober yeah like he's like he's like a shout out to him but he's like someone that motivates me but he's like you know what i mean he's yeah

Speaker 1 authentically like what you see is what you get and who he is is who he is and it does not waver no matter where or what he's doing it's it's it's brilliant yeah it's pretty cool man and it's also one of those things like you know sobriety again if you're just kind of kicking around, you're going out to get drinks every Sunday, you don't necessarily have, you know, like, let's say, like a problem quote.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It is one of those things that I think when you're, you know, drinking a lot or like partying, it's like, it's almost seems alien.

Speaker 1 But it, like, if you really like strip it down from like, you know, take substances out of it.

Speaker 1 I always thought it's a really like a, it's cool for a person to be able to remain with their thoughts in their own state of consciousness rather than, you know, you constantly escape it.

Speaker 1 It's like totally stoned.

Speaker 1 And you're constantly jumping out, jumping out, jumping out. But I think it is like a serious sign of mental strength to like hang.

Speaker 1 And people do like sober October, which that must be kind of funny when the whole world's like, we're going to be sober for one month. You're like, all right.
But I've seen me do that.

Speaker 1 So like, fuck yeah, I'm all about it. True, true.
But it's got to be funny with like 10 years. Like, oh, I'm glad you're having fun.
For sure.

Speaker 1 There is something I think that is like, especially the older you get, it's like.

Speaker 1 It does take mental strength to like sit with yourself, you know, not being able to kind of leave your consciousness like a little bit by, you know, doing like, oh, I want to get a little high.

Speaker 1 I want to do this, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And I think it's like, like it's a genuine virtue that I think gets skipped over people are kind of like yeah dude fuck I'm gonna have a couple beers fuck that like people kind of dismiss it a lot especially when you're drinking but I always thought it was like a it's pretty hard to do it's like it's very hard to do and it's it takes like you know when you can't kind of jump out of yourself for a little bit it forces you to work through you know the kind of you know whatever broken gears in your head I make a point to let people know that in my programs, right?

Speaker 2 Because the people that I'm working with, they're coming in, they have a week, they have two weeks, they have four days, they have one day, and and they're sitting there and they're feeling like they're, they're not enough, they could be doing more, they should be further along.

Speaker 2 And, and I'm like, look, what you're doing, the majority of society is not. Who wants to strip away their escape routes to be forced to look at themselves, right?

Speaker 2 With themselves, by themselves, without having any drink or drug to escape the terrible reality that you've created as a result of your addiction and man up and fucking walk through it. I'm like,

Speaker 2 I will walk with you people. You people are the ones that I want on my team right now, like at fucking over 10 years.
And you are the people that I fuck with, right?

Speaker 2 Like, and there's a lot to be said with that because I don't just give my time to anybody. Sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 So it's like, I'm, I really make it a point because I know in early sobriety, it's like a, you know, those, those weak five days, 30 days, 60 days. It's like a, of sobriety.

Speaker 2 It's like a bipolar roller coaster ride from hell.

Speaker 2 You can be above heaven high. The wind can blow wrong.
You're like below hell low trying to figure out what the fuck just just happened.

Speaker 2 So it's important to give people the credit of it takes a lot of work to end up in that position for fucking two days sober.

Speaker 2 And I always say it takes so much longer to get two days sober than it will to get two years sober.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Because you're just sitting there looking at the clock and you're like,

Speaker 2 should I, should I not? Can I? Can I not? Should I say fuck it and just do it? Should I not do it? You're still consumed with the actual drink or drug. You're just not partaking at that moment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. And to make it through that, to address all these ailments and start to look at you without an escape,

Speaker 2 that's fucking big boy shit. Yeah, it sucks.

Speaker 1 And most people don't do it. I know.
And that's okay.

Speaker 2 I need those people that don't do it to show me why I really need to keep doing it. For sure, yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 It's all perspective because they told me at treatment, if I changed my perception, I could change my world. Yeah.
And I bought into that shit.

Speaker 2 You know, and believe it or not, they were fucking right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, it's pretty sick, man.
I'm happy for you, man. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, it's like,

Speaker 2 I'm stoked. I'm grateful.
But who really is? It's like my mother, my, my friends, my, my employees, my, my, the police,

Speaker 2 the probation, the parole officers, the judges. You know, life has become a better place to be in with my sobriety, not only for me, but for other people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I always, like you were saying, the service thing's big, because especially when you're like, you know, if you're in a, even with, you know, with the royal drugs, if you're just like living a negative existence, you're usually convinced, like, in order to conquer my own negative existence, I have to achieve at some level that just somehow like shuts all this down and people will realize and they'll like me.

Speaker 1 Whereas like in recovery, it's like, or you can just like help people. Yeah.
And it gets the same thing.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're like lonely, it's like, well, rather than trying to be the man, just go volunteer. Yeah.
And you'll get that.

Speaker 1 Like, it's like a quick route into kind of like a social, a nice social existence. And everyone just is like, no, I have to conquer the world.
Yeah. It's too easy.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's really fun.
I always thought thought it was kind of funny.

Speaker 2 It's like, it's a, it's a simple fucking approach for an overcomplicated thinker. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's why I say smart people generally have a hard time getting it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, I had to dumb my way into this position.

Speaker 2 And that was through me being beaten into a state of reasonableness as a direct result of my behaviors. But it doesn't have to get that way, right?

Speaker 2 Like one of my business partners, I met him in treatment. It was his first attempt ever at getting sober.
And he's remained sober.

Speaker 1 Really? He's like, fuck that.

Speaker 2 So it's like, that's the frustrating thing. Most people are like, well,

Speaker 2 why can't my level get it at number one? Why does he have to get to 13 like you?

Speaker 2 There's no

Speaker 2 black and white.

Speaker 2 It's such an individualized process. And if you look at the statistics,

Speaker 2 it's very sad because it states that you're not going to win.

Speaker 2 But I'm here to fucking say, like,

Speaker 2 you want that. Yeah.
Like, not only am I going to win, I'm going to fucking kill it. I'm going to own it and it's going to turn into be my biggest blessing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And if I can do it, so the fuck can you. There's nothing different between us except for what I was willing to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, and I'm sure that's got to be like, it's really rewarding too.
Like you were saying, having the groups and seeing like even a couple people kind of take off.

Speaker 1 Because I guess if you really look at the recovery homes, it's like.

Speaker 1 If this doesn't work for me, this whole place is bullshit. Or just being like, for sure.
You got to, someone's got to do something. What is it? Is like the opiate with overdoses going down?

Speaker 1 Are they still going up?

Speaker 2 I'm not a big stats guy. I don't look at numbers.
I just kind of fucking remain ignorant to it and live in my own world.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we don't really hear about it as much anymore. It like dominated everything for a while.

Speaker 2 After COVID, alcohol became a big thing.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I have a lot of alcoholics in my facility now.

Speaker 1 Gotcha.

Speaker 2 And then meth's making a pretty big push. Yeah, meth'm push.

Speaker 1 Wow, come back.

Speaker 2 A lot of people got off heroin or fentanyl with meth.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, I've heard, I've, I've known people who have like off the heroin, meth comes into the picture and they're like, damn, I'm actually super productive.

Speaker 2 I work with the DEA. I'm like a keynote speaker for the DEA at these summits that they have all over the nation.
And I was just doing an event with them in St.

Speaker 2 Louis and they were like, yeah, cocaine's making a big comeback. We're fucking busting down big shipments with cocaine.

Speaker 2 Kind of like how I said Miami Vice was cool again.

Speaker 2 Crack could be cool again soon. With like the 80s.
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like, that's usually how the world works.

Speaker 1 Do you think they should legalize drugs? Do you think that'd be easier to help people, or you think it would make things worse?

Speaker 2 I think so. You know, I don't know about legalizing it, but I do believe in like safe injection sites.

Speaker 2 And Philly was going to be the first place to do that.

Speaker 2 And then they shut it down at the midnight hour. And their fear was that like it could trigger others in the community to want to get high.
And I don't, maybe that's the case.

Speaker 2 But for me, I would never walk past a safe injection site and be like, I think I want to go in there and shoot up heroin.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think it would. I think they did this in London or Britain, whatever.

Speaker 1 I believe it works.

Speaker 2 In Sweden, I think maybe. Yeah.
And what I think would be beautiful about it is you use it as a portal, right? It's a major harm reduction approach.

Speaker 2 They give you clean needles, clean water, clean cotton.

Speaker 1 And they test, obviously.

Speaker 2 And then they test the drugs. And the majority of the people that are in there don't really want to be in there anymore.

Speaker 1 That's kind of what I mean.

Speaker 2 It's lost its allure.

Speaker 1 Exactly. You're under like, you're in like a doctor's bed.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're being fucking monitored as you shoot up with some weird guy to make sure you don't die and to inject you with Narcan.

Speaker 2 So at the very least, when you do say you're ready, bam, we have avenues to get you. Yeah.
But now check this out, me being a major advocate for that, right?

Speaker 2 I own where I live in Old City, right? In Philly, in a really nice place. And someone said to me, they said, well, would you want it next to your house? And I'm like, ah, no.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it would fuck my property value up, right?

Speaker 2 And I'm just being transparent and open.

Speaker 2 So there's two sides to every fucking coin. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. Yeah, then, you know, again, with that, you're going to have people like pop a door handle and all that shit.
It's like, yeah, because you're like.

Speaker 2 Straight up. So I, I, you know, I, I really just try to remain like Switzerland in a lot of fucking places.
That makes sense. That's neutral and adapt accordingly.

Speaker 1 At least you're honest. Cause I heard people would be like, I wouldn't care.
And it's like,

Speaker 2 but yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, that's just the truth of the matter. Now, not saying that, like,

Speaker 2 you know, if the opportunity presented itself and they were going to do it, I would still back it. But in my mind, I'm like, but couldn't you just go a neighborhood over?

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't vote no on it. I know you.

Speaker 2 Let's put it that way. I would not vote no on it, but I would definitely vote for it to be in the next neighborhood over.

Speaker 1 For sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Everybody would.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's just, you know, I don't know.
It's such an individualized thing. I don't know what the approach is except for just taking the time to help one person.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's it.

Speaker 2 One person.

Speaker 1 True.

Speaker 2 And that one person who helped me. Just think about all the heroin that I stopped injecting, all the people I stopped hurting,

Speaker 2 the one less needle that's being found on your kids' playground because I stopped shooting up. Yeah, man.
Like, it goes that far.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. And again, like you were saying, like, people, you get kind of mired in the cliche of it, but it is pretty nuts to think about that.

Speaker 1 Like, if you know, if that guy that day had been like, fuck him, I don't feel like doing that. Straight up.

Speaker 1 Like you were saying, mom's upset, but you're burning bridges, you're ripping shit off, you're going to jail, all the shit. It's like, it's pretty crazy.
Anything about the ripple effect?

Speaker 2 And I believe that that's the approach that will change the outcome. I mean, it's, it's, put it this way.
So in Delaware, where all my sober living houses are, my treatment center as well,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 2 we really wanted the community to see, because in there they said, well, we don't really want them in our neighborhood, right? I get it.

Speaker 2 So one of the stipulations with Novak's house is when it snows, you have to go out and you shovel your neighbor's porch and their driveway and like you be kind to humanity and society.

Speaker 2 And then that was working and it snowball affected into the guys and women living in Novak's house. They started getting jobs within the community.

Speaker 1 That's cool.

Speaker 2 And then the people who own the businesses that started hiring the novax house clients

Speaker 2 they saw something different in them same thing that happened to me i'd show up to work early i'd stay late i took pride in washing dishes they're like

Speaker 2 where are you what what's because they aren't it's just different and and they're like where are you from what what what what's the backstory like oh we live in this place called novaks house it's a sober house and and what the business owners within the community did on their own i wish i could take credit for this is they created a private Facebook page called Novaks House Hires.

Speaker 2 And if any of these businesses need employees, they put a post up that goes to the Novaks house only.

Speaker 2 And then if any of the Novaks house people need a job, they put their resume or what their qualifications are. That's cool.

Speaker 2 Because like they're seeing the good that they're creating through the ethics and behaviors. And like, it's taking on a whole life of its own.
Right.

Speaker 2 So like it snowball effects, you know, it, it, then it opens the window for people wanting to hire people in recovery, where before it was taboo, shied away from them. Don't do that.
They'll rob you.

Speaker 2 They'll lie to you. They'll steal from you.

Speaker 2 I'm here to prove that that's not the fucking reality

Speaker 1 of all of, but like.

Speaker 2 For sure.

Speaker 1 I know what you're saying. Yeah, it can be done.

Speaker 2 But, you know, the old saying is if you,

Speaker 2 if you haven't been ripped off in AA, you're not helping enough newcomers.

Speaker 1 So it's like.

Speaker 1 No, that makes sense. That's fucking awesome, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And again, I couldn't, I'm not creative enough or intelligent enough to create that.
It's just me stepping out and letting the process play out.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Well, dude, I think that's it, man.
Thank you so much, bro. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 I'm pumped to hear about that. I enjoyed it too, man.
I'm really happy to hear, you know, it's good to hear people taking their time to help the world.

Speaker 1 Like, that's still a thing because I think a lot of people

Speaker 1 just get so, and it's not like a bad thing.

Speaker 2 I'm going to say I'm guilty of it too, getting consumed in the rat race. I'm the worst.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I have to jump out of it every day. Straight up.
What the fuck am I doing with myself?

Speaker 2 Yeah, once you hit to that point where you hit the wall, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Daily, yeah.

Speaker 1 Same. Same.

Speaker 2 I wake up every morning with a brain that wants to fucking kill me on a layaway plan. Yeah.
Right?

Speaker 2 Install in a plan of just like one fucking defect at a time. Yeah.
So, so anyone out there that might need help, you can reach me directly at 610-314-6747.

Speaker 2 Call me. And if you need help with getting treatment.

Speaker 1 Nice. Well, thank you so much.
Bye, Bye, brother. Gee, bro.
Love you. Thank you.