Ep 506 - King Marcus (feat. Marcus King)

Speaker 0 wild west.

Speaker 1 We're live here with Marcus King. What's up, brother? What's up? Thank you for doing this.

Speaker 2 Dude, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 I was texting you the other day. I was listening to your first album.

Speaker 1 Shred so fucking hard, dude.

Speaker 2 There's some wild stuff on that first record.

Speaker 1 It's pretty tight, dude. Thanks.

Speaker 1 I was wondering this, too. By the way, if you don't know who Marcus King is, he's obviously rock god.

Speaker 1 What's your go-to? What would they say? Like, use it rock, blues? What's your

Speaker 1 genre?

Speaker 2 Man, I never have. I just like a lot of different kinds of music.
Yeah. If I'm in the airport, I usually just pick one and tell people that I play rock and roll or country or

Speaker 2 whatever I'm in the mood for. True.

Speaker 1 Well, you fucking tread, dude. I was walking my dogs.
I was a little drunk.

Speaker 1 We had like a kids' party, so

Speaker 1 I got a little too turned up at it, but I was recovering. I was walking.
By the way, too, this is a side. They sell wheat seltzers now here.
In Texas?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you just go to the liquor store, and there's just, I couldn't believe it. I'm like, this has to be, this can't be real.
It's real.

Speaker 2 How I spiked a cooler with a bunch of those weed cells.

Speaker 2 How strong are they?

Speaker 1 They're like five milligrams, ten. Some of them are 10, which I think is dastardly.
You can't be dropping 10 milligrams of the bowl. Just like,

Speaker 1 you know, because that's one of those things. Anyone will pick it up and they see a label.
They're like, this is legit. Right.

Speaker 1 So I just put like eight of them in there being like, yeah, if that's your thing. But then, like, I was talking to my one friend.
He goes, I didn't even know this is a weed seltzer. He's drinking.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, oh, shit, that's

Speaker 1 my bad brother. He's like, I don't know, you know.

Speaker 2 That'll get you. It will.

Speaker 1 But yeah, so I was walking at a nice little walk at nighttime and I was listening to your first album. I'm like, dude, you fucking tread.
I'm not just slopping your knob.

Speaker 2 I'm like, dude, you fucking tread.

Speaker 1 Dude, I'm trying, bro. I'm trying to shred.
I'm a baby shredling, dude. But you can fucking, I was listening, and it's like, because whenever, because, you know, like,

Speaker 1 you know, if you're, if you're country, if you're blues, like you said, you kind of just bounce around. Because I do feel like you can get kind of stuck.

Speaker 1 And I heard you talking about this on the other podcast, getting stuck in that pentatonic. I mean, sorry, we're going deep on musical theory.
But you can get stuck in that one sound.

Speaker 1 And when I was listening to your first album, especially, I was just like, dude, you really can dance around and like jump out of stuff. And it was cool.

Speaker 1 It was really like, it was fresh the whole time. It was tight.

Speaker 2 Man, I appreciate that, dude. I mean, I just try to, with a guitar, just try to express what I'm feeling in here.

Speaker 2 And I didn't have a lot of friends growing up, so just play the guitar. That's awesome.
That seemed to do it.

Speaker 1 When did you start playing?

Speaker 2 I was probably like three or four. three or four years old.
What? Yep.

Speaker 2 I was like a latch key kid, you know, and I'd spend a lot of times just at the house alone with records and my guitar playing guitar.

Speaker 1 How would you, when you were like three, though, how did you play?

Speaker 2 I had a little bitty.

Speaker 1 Could you shred? A little bitty lesson.

Speaker 2 My dad taught me like Louie Louie, Louie Kingsman, and I just kind of went on from there.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I feel bad because I played in high school a lot, and there is something to like, when you play when you're a kid, like it's you're never going to have that much time again.

Speaker 1 Like, I would sit there for hours and just play and play. And if I like, I talk to adults who are like, I'm going to start playing.

Speaker 1 It's like, you're never going to have unless, unless you can just get, you know, take all day off or get unemployed.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, my family all played too, so I always thought about it like a bilingual family. You know, like you grow up learning Spanish, and it's just kind of second nature to you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because you're folks speaking in the household.

Speaker 2 But that's how guitar was for me. I just kind of picked it up because my grandfather and my dad and my uncles all played.
Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 So were you, were they traveling musicians?

Speaker 2 So they're what we call weekend warriors. Okay.
My grandfather was like career service in the Air Force and just played honky-tonks every weekend. And my dad was a, still is a tournament musician.

Speaker 2 He's 71 now.

Speaker 1 Damn, really?

Speaker 1 So what was that like when your dad was on? I worry about that. I'm always on tour.
I'm on tour a lot. So I'm like, do my kids, does this bother them? I can't tell.
They're so young.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I hope it doesn't bother them. Right.

Speaker 1 Did it bother you?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, my dad, when my parents got divorced when I was like four,

Speaker 2 he kind of dropped everything and got a straight job, became a contractor. Really?

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, looking back on it now, I could tell that he just fucking hated that.

Speaker 2 So around the time I was like 11, you know, I was playing good enough where he was like, I'll just bring you with me, shit, you know? Really?

Speaker 2 My sister would stay back at home with my grandparents and I'd go out with him. Oh, really? So I started playing bars and, you know, music venues when I was like 11.
Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's fucking awesome.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just they'd be like, man, that little girl you got up there sounds great.

Speaker 2 I just

Speaker 2 still get misgendered online. Do you really? Yeah, dude.
People on the Instagram comments are always asking if I'm like a transgender, which, I mean, nothing wrong with that, but I'm not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure. I mean, if you're not, you could say, you could plainly state, like, yeah, I don't, you know, don't do that.

Speaker 2 Since I was like 11 years old, though, man, yeah,

Speaker 2 that little girl is rocking.

Speaker 1 Your dad's like, shut up, dude. Just go with it.
It's fucking great.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, that's, that's kind of cool, though. So you were literally just, how did that happen? You were just shredding for your paw, and he was like, let's get the fuck out of here, bro.

Speaker 1 Fuck contracting.

Speaker 2 Let's go play music. Right.
I mean, yeah, we're going. Like,

Speaker 2 we would tour just like everywhere we could to get me back in time to go to school the next day. And I always kind of looked at it like, you know, the tribe goes out and hunts.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like you become a certain age, you just go out with the men and hunt. Fuck, dude.
That's what it kind of felt like.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 What kind of like stuff were you seeing? Like,

Speaker 1 was it like wild?

Speaker 1 Or was it kind of like pretty chill and tame?

Speaker 2 It was fucking crazy, especially like

Speaker 2 by the time I got to be like 13, I started booking my own gigs outside of my dad's band. So I was like 13 and 14 is when I got my learner's permit, and I had to have a licensed driver in the car.

Speaker 2 So I had like my two, two, you know,

Speaker 1 but you get your permit at oh, I make wait, when is the when do you when can you drive?

Speaker 2 So I'm from South Carolina. So in South Carolina, I got like a working permit because I was able to work at that age.
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 So I got that, which was like super restricted and I could drive with a licensed driver in the car. And it was like an extended, you know, learner's play kind of thing.

Speaker 2 So I had a bass player who was 18.

Speaker 2 My drummer was like 35 with kids.

Speaker 2 I just, I had like grown men and I had like a fake email. I would book us, you know, have us working like four or five nights a week.
And I'd end up in like Asheville, North Carolina.

Speaker 2 And this like crazy old bartender lady was just like trying to, you know,

Speaker 2 teach me about being a man and just like all these crazy stories.

Speaker 1 She was trying to usher you into

Speaker 2 adulthood, yeah. Damn, dude.
Some wild stories out there, yeah.

Speaker 1 How'd you feel about that at 13? I mean, Florida, I'm guessing.

Speaker 2 It was pretty exhilarating, yeah.

Speaker 1 So she was, you were, I guess, I mean,

Speaker 1 did you look younger? Because, you know, you were just a boy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm just a boy.

Speaker 1 Well, you had your permit.

Speaker 2 I did have my permit. I was driving my 94 Pontiac Transport minivan, and I had my rig,

Speaker 2 the PA. I had my bass player's rig.
It was a good deal for him. And I found out later, like, we would go work in Asheville, North Carolina, twice a week.
We'd go up on Monday. I'd play a gig.

Speaker 2 And unbeknownst to me, he was like moving some serious weight. And I didn't realize it.
He was just like filling his gig bag with like a QP every time we'd go up. We'd come back down to Greenville.

Speaker 2 I think the statue of limitations were good now. But he'd come back and then move it.
And then we'd go back up and play a different gig Thursday.

Speaker 1 That's so funny.

Speaker 2 And he'd pay the guy.

Speaker 2 We used to work this club called the Hole in the Wall. It was spelled hole in the wall.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And like a couple people got stabbed and they maintained you know, their liquor license and then somebody got shot and killed. That's when they closed down finally.
Really?

Speaker 2 But I was like all of 14 years old in there working and just driving crops around, no idea.

Speaker 1 QP on you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, dude. She was like all your learners for it.
Sketchy as hell.

Speaker 2 I don't know how I got out of some of the situations I was in, but

Speaker 3 you know.

Speaker 1 So did you ever have a job then or you just did the music stuff?

Speaker 2 When I was 16, I had a job at Mellow Mushroom.

Speaker 1 I actually like that place a lot.

Speaker 2 Mellow Mushroom is pretty good. Pretty good.

Speaker 2 I got fired twice from that same job, but the manager was a buddy of mine and just pretty mellow about it.

Speaker 1 He was chill. He was chill.
So

Speaker 1 you got the fire, rehire? Yeah. Nice.
Yeah, fire. So what did you get fired? Was it him who fired you? Like the hires up fired you and then you kind of had your

Speaker 2 comeback?

Speaker 2 So I was working back of the house. I was a dishwasher.
And then

Speaker 2 I got fired just for being kind of a slacker. Yeah.
And then I came back and I was front of the house and I was trying to like quasi-unionize the hosts because we did everything.

Speaker 2 We bust the tables, you know, we took drink orders and, you know, we didn't get tipped out at the end of the day. And I think, you know, I was being a little bit too.

Speaker 1 I see what you're saying. You don't even want in on the waiter's tips.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I was like, dude, what's going on with this? You know, like, we work our asses off.

Speaker 1 Let us get some of that back in.

Speaker 2 Some restaurants do that, though.

Speaker 1 I've worked in restaurants where as a bus boy, you'd get a little bit of the waitress's tips. Yeah.
And it was kind of, it was, I mean, it was a pittance, dude.

Speaker 1 They were making probably like 400 bucks a night, and they'd slide you like 40 bucks. You'd be like, sweet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the money got funny.

Speaker 1 I got the bartender's tips. There was a bartender named Matt.
I worked in a restaurant. There's a bartender named Matt.
So they gave me the wrong envelope. And I was just like, oh.

Speaker 1 I would get like 40 bucks as a bus boy, and I had like $400 in an envelope. And I was just like, fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, we gave you the wrong envelope. I was like, no, you didn't.

Speaker 2 I don't think you did. He was like, I don't think you did.

Speaker 1 They're like, no, we did. I'm like, nope.
Said Matt on it. Like, how much is in it? I'm like, I don't even remember.

Speaker 2 You got to, you got to have a little bit of hustle about you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, man. I mean, dude, if someone hands you an envelope of cash, now I would have, obviously, I'd return it to the rightful owner.
But back then, I was, I was a bit of a dog.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, nah, that's mine. I'm taking that.

Speaker 1 So you started as a kid. That's crazy.
I didn't know you could even start. I guess you can't do it anymore, maybe.

Speaker 2 I don't know, man. I don't know really how I worked around that, but I was really, you know, I knew what I wanted to do from a young age.
So I had that going for me. I had a lot of gumption.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I just wanted to get the fuck out of there.

Speaker 1 What were like, what were, was there any like nightmares? I mean, I'm sure there were, just like absolute nightmare gigs or like any meltdown. Have you ever freaked out on stage and melted down?

Speaker 2 Well, I played a cruise one time. We used to work the cruise circuit a little bit, like blues cruises and shit.
And like this particular blues cruise, I mean,

Speaker 2 I had gone off one morning and trying to find some drugs.

Speaker 2 And like the first like t-shirt vendor guy I came to, this was in like one of the little port cities in Mexico, and I was like, you know where I can find a little,

Speaker 2 you know, weed? And he's like, I think you want something a little stronger. And like, I was like, how'd you know?

Speaker 2 How'd you fucking know? And I got in the van with him and he took me out in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 2 And they like, I mean, they gave me some good Coke, but they robbed me, robbed me blind, and like took me to an ATM and strongly suggested I pull out some more money for the driver.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see. So they did sell you the Coke.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, they did half of it with me.

Speaker 2 It's kind of a smooth grift. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You can't be too mad.

Speaker 1 So they basically were like, it'll be this amount. Took you to the ATM to like withdraw funds.
Yeah. And sent you on your way with half of it.

Speaker 2 It was kind of like, are you not going to tip my mom for all the tequila you drank? Yeah. Are you not going to tip the driver? They just introduced you.
Man, you just took all my money.

Speaker 2 I don't have it. They're like, well, there's an ATM right here, man.

Speaker 2 So it was a smooth grift. I respect the hustle, but they didn't kill me, which is nice.
Yeah, that's sweet. But I got back on the boat, and

Speaker 2 I had a real bad drinking problem.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, on those cruise ships, it was international water, so a lot of people would kind of turn the other way. I was 18 and 19.
Yeah, yeah. You know, it was kind of like

Speaker 2 we're out in the middle of the ocean. This kid can drink, you know.

Speaker 1 Dude, I got served on a cruise at like 14. Right.
I was with my friend's family, went on a cruise, and we were just ordering beer, and they were like, whatever. Yeah.
They didn't care at all.

Speaker 2 They didn't give a shit because it's just all the like for the most part, like on the Norwegian boats, it was all like Indonesian workers. Yeah.
I noticed. And,

Speaker 2 yeah, they would serve me, but I had a meltdown on that cruise.

Speaker 2 On a blues cruise, way too drunk.

Speaker 2 And just like, I had a full cup, like, the size of this coffee cup of just whiskey, neat, and just dropped it, and it spilled all over the fucking stage. And I was just...

Speaker 2 I got pissed off, started throwing furniture around

Speaker 2 in the lounge.

Speaker 1 What happened? Did you get fired for the for the Blues Cruise?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 They asked us back the next year.

Speaker 1 It's kind of tight. If I was at a Blues Cruise and the dude just melted down on stage, I'd be like, this is fucking rules.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, it was the most punk rock thing happening on that book.

Speaker 1 Did you still play or did you not play that night?

Speaker 2 That was after the gig. Oh, really? I always managed to get through the show.
Yeah, yeah. You know, that's when I...

Speaker 2 The last time I put,

Speaker 2 you know, I quit drinking and I've quit drinking many times. But the last time was because I was still able to get the shows done.

Speaker 2 And as long as I was getting the shows done, nobody was really too concerned about me. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And that's no good because

Speaker 2 I can always get the work done

Speaker 2 because I love it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, how drunk can you get in play? I've always wondered that.

Speaker 2 I can get really drunk in play, but singing is a whole other thing.

Speaker 1 You just mumble through it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Start yawning at it.

Speaker 1 Is it drinking and coke or just drinking

Speaker 1 two peas in a pod? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 The best peas.

Speaker 2 Somebody,

Speaker 2 like, sometimes, you know, when I'm playing, like, and I think all guitars are, guitar players are guilty of this. Like, Mayer is a real culprit of, like, just the crazy mouth shit that you do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Because you're kind of just, you're not thinking and you're reacting.

Speaker 2 But they posted a video of me playing, and somebody was like, this dude's totally gacked up.

Speaker 2 And I don't really usually respond, but, like, I let it just simmer for, like, 48 hours and I responded. I was like, dude, you have no idea how much I miss cocaine.

Speaker 1 So you weren't even on coke.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 You were making guitar face.

Speaker 2 I was, yeah, I was just guitar facing. Everybody's, yeah, anyone.
It's the same as cocaine face.

Speaker 1 True. Oh, yeah.
You start getting like.

Speaker 2 You know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That makes sense. You can kind of fly under the radar, I guess, because if you're, yeah, you're like, you're not going to be like, I was just making guitar face.

Speaker 2 I'm not cooked out of it. I don't like Coke, by the way.
Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 I've never done it, to be fair. I just, I don't like the idea of it.

Speaker 1 I heard it's everyone I tell it it to, they go, you should try it. It's fantastic.
And I say, no, I'm not going to. I don't like it.
I just, I don't like it. I got convinced at a young age.

Speaker 1 I was like, that shit's fucking, it's bad.

Speaker 2 Yeah, don't listen to those guys.

Speaker 1 Think it's bad?

Speaker 2 My dad's only advice to me was like, never do cocaine because you'll love it. Which I absolutely did.

Speaker 2 He was right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, people do it casually now, too. A lot of younger people I talk to are just like, oh, dude, like, we're just bumping some Coke.
And like, they're like young, like, frat kids now. Just do blow.

Speaker 1 Yeah when I went to college That was a big deal if you did Coke It was kind of like a lot of people did it, but it was kind of like now it's it's as acceptable now I think as smoking weed right I could be wrong.

Speaker 1 I don't you know, I don't frequent frats, but just like the stuff I hear about it like yeah, dude we do some bumps and get out there and I'm like dude people just like hide and I was younger people like hide people still I guess kind of do hide a little bit right that was always kind of my thing was like

Speaker 2 You'd be at a party and then everyone would be in the bathroom and there's like 30 of you in the bathroom like why don't we just bust this out on the coffee table instead of all crowding around the toilet?

Speaker 2 Well, that, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know. I just, my problem is I didn't do it.
And I knew people who did. And I hung out with people on Coke, not on Coke a lot.
And I was like, this fucking sucks.

Speaker 1 So it really kind of turned me off to it forever.

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Speaker 1 right because it's brutal dude yeah someone's on coke and you're not it's like please get me the fuck out of here yeah that's a tough hang it's a wildly tough hang.

Speaker 2 It's not, it's not fun. Bro, you fucking go over there.

Speaker 1 You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're, they always got big ideas.

Speaker 1 But, um, but shredding on stage, gacked out and drunk is probably pretty tight. You know, pros and cons, it's probably kind of fun.

Speaker 2 I mean, whatever the buzz is that you like, it's pretty nice

Speaker 2 having it while you're doing what you love, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but well, here's this is a question for you. Like, do you even now off of you know that,

Speaker 1 is it really because I think a lot of that for me me is like a

Speaker 1 kind of a blanket over inferiority issues so like a lot of it kind of like just gets you able to like get out there and do your thing you're pretty good obviously guitar you're fantastic at it do you still have those like do you feel like you need to kind of drug yourself a little bit to kind of like was it that was it that the issue or is it just you could perform but it was like yeah why not i might as well party i think that was a lot of it because now like the stage friday it's like it's so much worse it is worse yeah so much worse like being sober yeah you know and like just having a little something that gets you out there and just having that confidence because it is a lot of inferiority.

Speaker 2 And you get out there. And like, once I'm like five minutes in, I'm like, all right, this will be all right.
Yeah. But like those five minutes before showtime, I'm just, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and you can't address it. I've always wondered if you can go out.
I've done it with stand-up. You'd be like, oh, I'm like, like the fuck around.

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, I'm kind of having like a panic attack for the first five minutes. And like, crowds are like, stop that right now.
They don't like it. We don't want to hear this shit.

Speaker 2 We want to see you you perform yeah it's like dance i've tried to address it many times and they're like

Speaker 2 no just play the song

Speaker 1 yeah that's unfortunate but yeah i mean that's i mean you know stand-up similar where it's like you have to do it and i'm the same way i can just inhabit like a mental torture chamber i'm better now with it because i feel like what's helped me is instead of focusing on myself i just focus on the people who are watching it and like i'm just going to do my best to let them have fun yeah and like when you get out of your like, I need to be great, I need to be the best, and just be like, it's literally, they call it dereflection.

Speaker 1 There's like a term for it, where you're just like, I want these guys to have a good time. And you focus on making them have a good time rather than like, am I doing good enough?

Speaker 1 And it, dude, I think it makes everything a lot easier.

Speaker 1 And you have fun. Like you end up having more fun, which, you know.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 It runs counter to all the stuff you hear where it's like, you have to suffer. If you suffer, then the good things will happen.
It's like, you cannot suffer and good things will happen too. Right.

Speaker 1 Just, you know, takes half your life to learn that. And by then, you're like, oh, fuck.

Speaker 2 I wish I knew that. Right.
I mean, like the philosophical thing behind it, like, we were talking about Rick Rubin and his book. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And his whole thing is like, put the audience last, which was always really foreign to me because I'm like you. I like to, you know, you call it dereflection, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like, as long as they're having a good time, I'm cool. Yeah.
And I've also got a seven-piece band behind me, so I can kind of lean on them

Speaker 2 and like try to entertain them to to a degree and not focus on the the larger audience in front of me yeah um that's worked for me in the past but i couldn't imagine being up there alone

Speaker 1 yeah i mean i don't know because i've i've tried to play music a couple times and that's harder for me because you're getting when you're doing stand-up you're getting feedback in real time like if people aren't laughing you know it's like red alert this isn't going well this isn't going well but when i would so like and they laugh it relaxes you yeah when when i would play music i would the whole time i would just like watch people in the crowd like, dude, do they fucking hate this?

Speaker 2 I would just stare.

Speaker 1 Then the song will be over, and a couple people will clap, and I'd be like, I guess that's good. There's no, like, you're not getting that feet.
The feedback kind of relaxes you. And stand up.

Speaker 1 Everyone says that does music, but like, stand-up's crazy. It's like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I think it's easier.

Speaker 1 I could be wrong. I mean,

Speaker 2 that's a wild take.

Speaker 1 Having a band behind you, I mean, I'm also, I'd be, I wasn't that good, though. So I'd be worried about like missing a string, and I'd be like, fuck.

Speaker 2 So I don't know.

Speaker 2 I mean, as long as I got my boys with me, I like they they kind of keep me humble. Yeah, yeah.
My drummer points out a lot of the mistakes I make. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's a stickler.

Speaker 2 That's good to have.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you can't get too loose.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't get too loose.

Speaker 1 Especially if you're, I mean, I guess you could, if somebody fucks up, if I'm like watching a band and somebody like fucks up a chord and like kind of laughs and keeps playing, I'm not going to be like, what the fuck was that?

Speaker 2 Right. You don't ask for your money back.
Yeah. But, I mean, we also grew up in the service industry.
True. So

Speaker 1 I only was in the restaurants briefly. I did construct.
Well, construction, construction, but similar. It's like, yeah, I mean, it's not similar, but yeah, you do it.

Speaker 1 You actually, I guess, when you do that kind of work that you do, like

Speaker 1 I've heard this from waiters, especially. They're like, people who do construction usually leave like blue-collar type jobs, whatever it is, they usually leave better tips.

Speaker 1 Just because they're like, you know, what it's like to be at a job that sucks. You're like, yeah, here's, you know, here's some money.
That shit sucks.

Speaker 1 I mean, what you're doing sucks. What I'm doing sucks.
Here's some extra money.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've heard the same thing. And I was in the service industry long enough to realize, like,

Speaker 1 you know.

Speaker 1 We're talking mellow mushroom?

Speaker 2 Talking mellow mushroom.

Speaker 2 I was there just long enough. I was a mellow man.

Speaker 2 Just long enough to, you know, not get frustrated about how long it's going to be for a wait for a table.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, to be like, all right, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Especially if you work in a restaurant, dude. I worked.
Actually, you know what? I take that back. I was in my brother's taco truck.
And I remember, like, when people are waiting for their food,

Speaker 1 they're like very, they're like especially angry. Like if you're in a restaurant and you're like, hey, we took the day off, we're closed, people show up and they're like, they're furious.

Speaker 1 Like you see, I do it. If I show up to a place and like they're normally open, they're closed, it takes me like 10 seconds to calm down.
Because you're like thinking, it's like primal.

Speaker 1 You're thinking of a meal you're about to eat. And they're like, you can't have it.
And you're like,

Speaker 2 all right, that's fine, man.

Speaker 1 But it fucks you up. But yeah.
So I remember like.

Speaker 1 trying to we were in like a little lunch truck so i would just watch people waiting angrily and just be like my brother would be cooking in the back and i'd be like Just another couple minutes, everybody.

Speaker 1 And then like, you'd run out of food, and there'd be a guy who's waiting half an hour, and you have to be like, Bro, we're out of food, bro, my bad. And they'd be like, What the fuck?

Speaker 1 And you're like, Yeah, I get it, man.

Speaker 2 That's how you get an active shooter on your hand.

Speaker 2 It is really primal, you know.

Speaker 1 It is, man. Dude, if I waited for a half an hour, like, hey, uh, we don't have any food, my bad.
Here's your money back.

Speaker 2 I'd freak.

Speaker 1 I called the cops. I'd be like, I'm calling the fucking police.

Speaker 2 That happened to us recently with my drummer, actually. Like, everybody finally got their meal.
And, like, what he wanted, they were like,

Speaker 2 they came around, gave everybody their food, and

Speaker 2 they didn't bring his, and they were like, Oh,

Speaker 2 yeah, we're actually out of that.

Speaker 2 He's like, Why are you just now telling me? You know, and they were like, You want something else?

Speaker 1 And he's no, he fasted.

Speaker 2 He's a grump when it comes to food, like, dude, a lot of people are.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he hunger striked. I would have done a hunger strike as well.
I'd be like, I won't eat that.

Speaker 2 He protested.

Speaker 1 I'll be hungry, and you guys will pay for it.

Speaker 2 He just sat there and watched everyone eat.

Speaker 1 Damn, dude. Yeah, so how was it? So you said you did your last album with Rick Rubin.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 1 How was that?

Speaker 2 It was, it was interesting, man. I mean, it was, it was a long process because he's super mysterious guy.

Speaker 1 Dude, I was trying to figure out what the guy...

Speaker 1 I had seen him in stuff, and I was like, I learned he doesn't play any instruments, right? Plays no instruments. And I was like, How does he produce all these, like, all this musical stuff?

Speaker 1 And it almost, his mystery almost perverted my mind to being a hater. Where I was like, I think he's full of shit, right?

Speaker 1 And then I read his book, and I'm like, fuck, this is the coolest dude I think that might have ever lived.

Speaker 2 It's super interesting. The book's awesome because he does try, like, the way I've explained it is he's like, he's like a ambassador of music for the human population.

Speaker 1 I would hear shit like that. I'd be like, shut the fuck up.
And then I read his book and I'm like, yeah, he could do that. I was like, he's, for real, it might just be the coolest dude.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he'd come in and we'd listen to stuff. And, you know, he's always like just barefoot and he wears like, you know, these Thai fisherman pants, which are like these huge pants.

Speaker 1 I want to wear those so fucking bad, I don't have the courage.

Speaker 2 I don't either.

Speaker 1 You know how much courage it took me to wear my biohacking ring, dude?

Speaker 2 This is my aura ring.

Speaker 1 I've been hiding it under the table, dude. I'm not a two-ring man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm, I got rings.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I am. Fuck that, dude.
My wife won't let me wear the Thai fisherman pants. Why not? Uh, she hates them.
We have to.

Speaker 1 Let me let me Google these things real quick. I want to see, I think I know what you're talking about.
They're like the long, flowy, like almost kung fu master looking pants.

Speaker 2 Big time. Fuck.
Yeah. Fuck, dude.
I'm just...

Speaker 2 Fuck. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's all I want to wear. Every time I see people in them, I'm like, I'm a coward and I won't wear these things.

Speaker 2 And it doesn't work for me.

Speaker 2 So says my wife. But

Speaker 2 he'd flow in with those and like a big iced coffee and or like a tea. And he would just like, he lays down in meetings a lot.
What? Like while he's talking to you, he just lays down.

Speaker 1 And then, how did you feel? So, you who produced your other album? You had other people producing, obviously.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, I've worked with like Dan Auerbach from the Black Keys. I worked with this producer named Dave Cobb, who did a lot of the Chris Stapleton and Sturgil Simpson stuff.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've worked with a lot of different producers, and all of them kind of have their weird quirk. Yeah.
And at a certain point, you got to step back and remember, like,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm paying for this guy to produce the record, so I'm going to lean into like their process. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So a lot of personality mirroring, like end up laying down on the adjacent couch talking to Rick. Really? Yeah, oh, yeah.
Fuck, dude. I'm like, I'll take my shoes off and lay down and talk to you.

Speaker 1 And he just, because his book,

Speaker 1 the way he approaches his book is pretty cool. And you were saying he instructs you the opposite.
He's like, fuck the audience. Do your thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like... It's so hard to do.

Speaker 2 And that book, like, I read it after we worked together and like hearing him talk. And like, I mean, he's a, he's a big, he practices what he preaches, you know.

Speaker 2 He's such a big fan of music and of comedy, too. Like, he loves comedy.
And I was in Italy working with him when he was about to,

Speaker 2 you know, go on Rogan and talk about his book. Yeah.
And he was like nervous, you know. It was, it was really

Speaker 2 to see him kind of have these like human emotions.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I guess you kind of like legendize them in your mind. You're like, dude, he does.
Rick Moving doesn't get nervous.

Speaker 2 You can't wear it. You think about him, you think about him floating and shit yeah

Speaker 1 and flying lotus telling anyone i would recommend his book i like started especially if you're like trying to write something or do something or even like if you're just like trying to chill at your job that's my mission right now is like how can i just make my inner world as peaceful as possible it's obviously hard dude i fail all day every day but his book you read it and you're like damn this is it's a cool approach to just like sitting brainstorming letting like ideas flow letting them take shape and like creating things it's you know that's that's the one thing i think a lot of people who aren't in, like, when I, whenever hear the term, like, I'm a creative, I, I dislike it.

Speaker 1 Because I think anyone can do a cool thing. Like, you can, like, build something in your backyard.
You can do all this stuff.

Speaker 1 And I think that's a lot of people get frustrated because they have no creative outlet. It's like, I think it's a, you know, it's like a God-given right for every man or person or girl or whatever to

Speaker 1 like do something other than like wake up, stare at your phone, go to a job you hate, go home, watch TV, and go to, I think that's like, it kills you. Yeah, build a thing.
Draw something, dude.

Speaker 1 Who gives a fuck? But if you read that Ruben book, I think that helps people

Speaker 1 get out of their head. Like, I read it and it was just fantastic.

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Speaker 2 Yeah, I'd recommend it to anybody because I agree with you, man. I think anybody can do something creative.

Speaker 2 And it really just, it helps you.

Speaker 1 Dude, dig like a fish pond. Yeah.
Like, that would be all. I want to do that, dude.
It's like, you can do literally, people think like it, in my opinion, it's like the commercial aspect.

Speaker 1 is like a hard kind of brick wall for a lot of people because if they think of something that's like deemed like creative or artistic, they go, well, I could never sell that.

Speaker 1 It's like, who gives a fuck, dude? Right.

Speaker 2 Just build a a fucking statue and you're you're a little crazy but it's like you the satisfaction you would get if you got good at building a statue digging like a fish pond anything like that i mean it's it's unrighteous it's unmatched you got to be okay with failing yeah and that's the approach i take to every gig if i could find like that transcendental place yeah on stage and it's so it's hard but like i think i even heard you talk about this like if you're doing something like uh like the assembly line you know you're doing a repetitive motion over and over oh yeah it kind of unlocks like that creative side of your brain that's what um

Speaker 1 fuck what was that guy's name i think adam smith that was the guy who found he was like one of the thinkers in capitalism he thought that was what he thought though and i i think it is right because if i when i would paint houses especially if you're doing a repetitive task it does unlock you to think about other stuff but he had this dream where like people would work in like uh dog food factories and then like just start coming up with these sick ideas and it turns out it's like a lot of people will just stare at a fucking wall too so that is it but I agree if you have that capacity to like for your mind to float it's like yeah when you do something that's like like manual labor intensive your brain really can yeah like my wife

Speaker 2 you know when she started her she has like a trucker hat company and she started it out of our garage and I'd just go down there and make boxes and I'd make the same box over and over and over again and I would come up with so many ideas and I would just write them down you know yeah and it kind of led me to like you know now when I write a lot of times I'll I'll have like a show that I've seen a thousand times, like The Office or like The Big Lebowski, something that I've seen a million times that'll kind of get those gears turning.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so it's kind of stimulating my brain, but I don't have to think about what's going to happen because I know what the, you know, no, that's a cool idea.

Speaker 1 I used to trash Adam Smith for his take when he would be like, yeah, you're going to get guys in factories. They're going to unlock the next level and unleash all the secrets.
Right.

Speaker 1 But in reality, they were just, a lot of them were just bored to death. But

Speaker 1 I do agree, though. That works for me, too.

Speaker 1 When I would would do manual labor, any of that stuff, like I used to have to, it was working with my dad and my uncles, and they would like knock a building down, pick up like concrete, like chunks of rock, bricks, plastic, metal, and wood, and they would just dump it.

Speaker 1 And you had to separate them into like those five categories. Yeah.
And I would do that for like eight hours a day. And like, dude, you really do.
Like, you can't hit a flow state. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's pretty tight.

Speaker 2 There's something.

Speaker 2 something healing about that in my mind like having a task and just getting it done like we've been in the moving process i'm like i got to get this couch from here to the truck, from the truck into the storage unit, and just like doing it and just sweating and like, like, earning your rest at the end of the night.

Speaker 1 Dude, and I'm telling you, man, people, like,

Speaker 1 because I've worked, I've done jobs that are purely physical. My dad worked with my dad.
He's like, look, I need you from the neck down today. I don't want to hear anything.

Speaker 1 Just, I don't need any ideas. I just need you to lift that and put that there.
Because I'd be like, what if we do it this way? He'd be like, don't want to hear it. Do that there to there.
That's it.

Speaker 1 But like, yeah, and it's it's like when you use when you do a job, I always wanted to have a job where I just use my brain, but then it's like you do get to the point where, like, dude, I would love to move some boxes right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and people who move all day are like, fuck you, dude. You think, I'm like, dude, you don't understand.

Speaker 1 Like, just let me when I like get to carry shit, like, if I do yard work, I'm in heaven, dude. But if the thing is, if you do it all day, every day, you're like, all right, man, fuck this.

Speaker 2 This sucks. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 good point.

Speaker 2 You've hit a dead end of the conversation.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 and you how many albums do you have four do you have or five so it's kind of weird the way it was so i did three records uh with my guys

Speaker 2 called it was marcus king band yeah

Speaker 2 and then i did a record called el dorado and it wasn't my guys it was the first album i did without my band so i didn't feel right calling it marcus king band

Speaker 2 And I just thought this would make everything a lot simpler. And it actually just kind of convoluted everything.

Speaker 2 Because now I see articles that refer to me as like the former lead singer of the Marcus King band, which is like a brain pretzel. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 Marcus King, aka former lead singer of the Marcus King band.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's still the same band, or at least my drummer.
You know, relationships kind of ebb and flow and you grow. Yeah.
Some people don't grow with you.

Speaker 2 And then you come to those hard moments in life where you kind of have to move on and they have to move on or stay behind. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I've got three out with my group and I think

Speaker 2 three as a solo artist, as it were, but it's still my band on the road. And me and my band just did a record together that we're going to put out next year.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 you guys were the Marcus King band and then you went solo.

Speaker 1 Who were the musicians you used when you went solo? Did you just did you just like bring different people in here or there? Or did you have a different band that was with you when you did solo stuff?

Speaker 1 Was it some of your Marcus King band? Like, how did that work?

Speaker 2 Right. So that was another, like, you know, kind of trust the, you know, the process.

Speaker 2 When I worked with Dan Auerbach, he's like, I got, you know, like if you, uh, like the Memphis boys, they worked on all like the Dusty Springfield, Elvis Presley,

Speaker 2 Bobby Womack, that kind of thing. And they're all like 80 years old, but they're incredible musicians.
And they played on that record with me. And just watching them work

Speaker 2 was just astounding.

Speaker 1 Did a record with 80-year-olds?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. That's crazy.
That record, El Dorado, everybody on that record's like 70 plus. Damn, dude.

Speaker 1 How was that?

Speaker 2 It was incredible.

Speaker 1 They must be like wizards at that point. They are.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 it was really just like, you know,

Speaker 2 how do you say it? Like,

Speaker 2 yeah, like wizards. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't really hate them. That's what I was curious about.
People get like,

Speaker 1 it's a tough thing. Like, my, I think we he was saying this.
They're like, when you have a band, it's like having like five girlfriends.

Speaker 1 Because you really do have to, like, you have to maintain all. That's the one thing I will say, stand-ups easier.

Speaker 1 Because if you have a band, you have to maintain all these different schedules, all these different people's lives, all these wants and needs. Where if, like, it's got to be difficult.

Speaker 2 It's like a marriage. Yeah.
It really is. And

Speaker 2 it gets hard. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So how was the soul? Was the solo move to like doing solo stuff kind of freeing or like how'd you feel about it?

Speaker 2 I mean, in some ways it was freeing.

Speaker 2 and you know like now I just really crave like that familial aspect and like working together as a team to have something that's creatively like ours and we did that we cut it down in Macon Georgia and Macon Georgia is just a really fascinating place to me like

Speaker 2 they've got like this

Speaker 2 export

Speaker 2 It's like this powdery substance that they have reservoirs there for. It's like this protein

Speaker 2 that you need it. It's like kyolite or something like that.
You know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 No. Mike in Georgia exports a protein powder?

Speaker 2 Yeah, not a protein powder, but like it's like a

Speaker 2 natural resource that you need to build like most shit. Oh, okay.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So they mine it?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Gotcha.
So like because of that, it's all like still mom and pop there. They don't have like a lot of chain places in that town.
So it's like a really old school feeling town.

Speaker 2 And we went there and cut a record. It was really, really cool.
That's pretty tight.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I feel like Neil Young had something similar with his

Speaker 1 band was Crazy Horse, I think. And I think he would go off and on where he would do a solo thing, come back with Crazy Horse, do a solo, and come back.

Speaker 1 And I was like thinking about Crosby Still's Nash and Young a lot. And all those dudes had the band, then they had their own little solo things.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's pretty cool, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I've always kind of thought about Neil Young. Yeah.
Like as somebody to model a career after because he kind of accomplished that idea of having a band, having the solo shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he did. You know, do whatever.

Speaker 1 He fucking crushed it. He had that catalog in the 80s was wild, dude.
Regarding the Vokoda phones, dude, that was fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 I haven't dug much into his catalog in the 80s.

Speaker 1 He had a strong, I feel like he just, he for real, like, crushed it straight through. The 80s, he just did his own.
He was like chilling with Devo a lot.

Speaker 1 Which I could see that. If I was in the 70s and I've never heard of 80s music and it was coming out, I would dip my toes into it as well.

Speaker 1 And then he came back in the 90s real hard. And, you know, he's been touring for whatever 50, 50, 60 years.

Speaker 2 That's one fellow I'd really like to meet. Yeah.
But, you know, like he's a grump, dude.

Speaker 1 I heard. He's a grump.
My dad loves Neil Young, and he'll come home from his concert. He's like, he's fucking bitching about politics again.
Fucking, goddamn. He gets so mad.

Speaker 1 He's like, fucking crying about the goddamn press.

Speaker 1 My dad loves Neil Young. My dad loves Al Stewart.
My dad's seen Al Stewart 40 fucking times. He's seen Neil Young a bunch of times.
He's like, dude, fucking Neil Young's crying about fucking politics.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you come home all pissed off.

Speaker 1 My dad went to see Al Stewart recently in Poconos in the mountains in Pennsylvania. And he was like, it was just

Speaker 2 him and a bunch of gay guys.

Speaker 1 These two gay guys are singing every song right next to him. And he's like, dude, I just couldn't focus on Al Stewart.

Speaker 1 Wow. But yeah, I grew up.
My dad was a big, I think my dad was a huge fan of music. He had this, like, when we were younger, he had this,

Speaker 1 it was like this double-sided cassette case where he would, he just had like 48 tapes, like little like cassette tapes, and he would carry it around in his truck and he'd always just like blast different, like, dude, going to work with him was so fun because he would just blast like Neil Young and all these other, just like 70s, like he got into like NXS for a while, which is funny.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was weird, man. He had a very like kind of eclectic music taste.
Right. And he would just, he would get home from work and he would just like hit a tape in the deck.

Speaker 1 fire it up and just sit by a fire and just blast albums. It was really nice.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 it's great to have that growing up. People who have an eclectic sense or taste in music.
My dad was like that. My grandfather listened to a lot of Country and Western.

Speaker 2 My grandmother loved like Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra,

Speaker 2 and my father loved rock and roll. So

Speaker 2 I had a really eclectic kind of mix of music when I came home from school. Yeah, I always felt, I don't know, I've ever like...

Speaker 1 Have you ever been in someone's house and there's just like no music at all?

Speaker 2 Or like riding in a car with somebody and there's no music. Yeah.
So It's a psychopath move. It is a psychopath move.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll try. I used to have a very, I've gotten better with this, but I'd be very nervous to play music for other people because I think they would listen to it and be like, yo, this fucking sucks.

Speaker 1 It's from having older brothers. So I'm like worried they'll listen to it and be like, yo, this sucks, dude.
You're a loser.

Speaker 1 So I would do a thing where I'd play music, but I'd play it very quietly, which is almost worse than silence because people are kind of like,

Speaker 2 like water torture.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, what are you doing? Like, play the fucking song and turn it off. Because I would play it.
And I'd like maybe like, well, turn it up a little bit. bit.

Speaker 1 It was just a psycho thing I would do. Or like nobody, no one's thinking about it.
Like, you never get into someone's car and you're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. Just like, oh, there's music on.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm always, you know.

Speaker 1 Just a glimpse into my tortured fucking world, dude.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, you're talented at what you do, so there's got to be some torture in there. True.

Speaker 1 I need Ruben. I need Ruben to lay down with me, dude.
You know, ass friends, dude, lay down. Head to head, Hallard Paul's, head to head, yoga pants.

Speaker 1 That's got to to be so cool, though, dude. Like, what do you do when you're sitting there with that guy?

Speaker 2 I would,

Speaker 1 I think I might bug that guy until he leaves.

Speaker 2 I'd be like, oh, Rick, what should I do with this, dude?

Speaker 1 Should I close my eyes?

Speaker 2 Like, what should I do, dude?

Speaker 2 Well, like, the first day I met him, because he just cold called me, and I showed up at the studio out in Malibu, and I pulled up, and like, I noticed he was in front of his Airstream trailer, and he was interviewing

Speaker 2 Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers.

Speaker 2 And it's like the two most like, you know, distinctive-looking looking dudes ever sitting out there and like my window's down from the car and I'm at the gate and I just hear the director say, cut, there's a fucking car in the background.

Speaker 2 And like I ruined that take.

Speaker 2 And they open the gate and I go up to the main house and I start checking out amps.

Speaker 2 And like the way Rick likes to have his studios laid out, it's all really open and all the doors are open and like you can hear everything.

Speaker 2 Like when I was recording in the chapel, I could hear the red hot chili peppers cutting because you know Chad Smith is such a distinctive sounding drummer.

Speaker 2 But I went up there and started trying out these amps, and then this poor intern runs up and starts yelling at me because I ruined another take just for playing these amps.

Speaker 2 So I said, I haven't met him.

Speaker 1 They were filming a movie?

Speaker 2 They were filming that documentary, that Tom Pay documentary.

Speaker 1 Gotcha, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I fucked up a couple takes.

Speaker 2 But when he came in,

Speaker 2 he didn't even mention it, man. He's a really cool dude, and he's a fan first.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that record was difficult because Rick like migrates with like the weather that he likes.

Speaker 2 So he'll be in Malibu for a few months and then he goes to like Costa Rica. Then he goes to Hawaii and then he goes to Tuscany.
And he just kind of migrates with like the total weather.

Speaker 1 Oh, I need to take a break, dude.

Speaker 2 He's so fucking cool, dude.

Speaker 1 So you had to like go to all these different little places.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so it was challenging. You know, I mean, it was truly challenging.
He put me through a lot of shit. Yeah.
Like, I wrote for like six months, and we didn't use any of it.

Speaker 1 What was that? How did you decide not to use it? Was he just kind of like, do you like that? Do you really like that?

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 he made me more

Speaker 2 introspective with all of it. Because the whole record, the concept was mental health.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, my struggles with mental health and like he wanted to just be as bare bones with it as possible. Yeah.
Like no metaphors. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I'd write something that I thought would be appealing to a listener. And he's like,

Speaker 2 no.

Speaker 2 That's all I see.

Speaker 2 probably especially very calmly be like no, yeah, we're not gonna use that Yeah, and he doesn't like to be in the room during the creative process He'll come in after the fact and then just like make little notes and adjustments and then he'll just like kind of drift away Which is unlike anything so the record took like two and a half years to finish that's kind of cool Which is interesting because like you listen to the record like I can listen to it and like some songs I wrote when I was with my ex and like out there writing about her and how I I was unhappy in this relationship didn't know how to you know communicate it so I was writing about that and then

Speaker 2 there's songs from when that relationship ended and I kind of just became a train wreck yeah it was just like heavy metal yeah I was just I was abusing everything and um

Speaker 2 and then kind of after the fact like when I met my now wife like so the record kind of takes me on this journey and I don't know if he like had the foresight for that yeah that's kind of nuts you have songs from like a period of like you know domestic you know let's call it domestic kind of hell like a hellish domestic situation where like it's disintegrating blah blah blah drug abuse period and then kind of like you know greener pastures yeah it's kind of fucking cool and I'm thankful for that and and in any other circumstance I wouldn't have had

Speaker 2 you know they would have turned it out like pop it out but yeah because I've done records in six days I've done records in you know two weeks but never like more than like a month.

Speaker 2 That's crazy. So for like two and a half years, it's really just a full journey.
It's like the full

Speaker 2 circle.

Speaker 1 That is pretty cool. And

Speaker 1 when did that come out? I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 It came out in April.

Speaker 1 Okay, nice, man. That's awesome.
So it's pretty new.

Speaker 2 It's pretty fresh still.

Speaker 2 But, you know, we kind of have our sites set on like the next thing. Yeah.
And, you know, like this honky tonk shit is like popular again.

Speaker 2 I grew up playing in the honky-tonks, and like, it's like in my blood. My family's from the Appalachias.
I'm bringing the fiddle back out. I'm like, this shit's hot.

Speaker 1 Dude, the fiddle does move me, dude. When I hear the fiddle, it does something to me.

Speaker 2 There's something about us whites, man. When we hear that fiddle,

Speaker 2 we're getting it going.

Speaker 1 It's supposed to be a hard, fucking shrill note on a fiddle. I started thinking, like, I might grab someone's arm, dude.

Speaker 2 I might do a docile.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the thing that Ruben did too in his book was he's like, stop reading the news. Like, stop taking in all this bullshit entertainment news.
Like, just knock it off. Read the classics.

Speaker 1 Try to, like, take in.

Speaker 1 It was like a,

Speaker 1 not even as an entertainment diet, but just like, he's like, think of it like the food you eat. And he's like, stop taking in this shit.
Like,

Speaker 1 stop, you don't need to read the news. Fuck it.
Don't worry about the news. Read classic novels.
Read this. Read that.
You know, to your own taste. You don't have to try to read like.

Speaker 1 It's like wildly complex Shakespeare stuff. But he was just like, yeah, just stop taking in bullshit information.
It's funny.

Speaker 1 Whenever someone is like, fuck the news, I'm like, yes, dude. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I like hearing that.

Speaker 2 I don't even have a news source really that I trust right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I don't really know where to get my news. I mean, I just kind of overhear a lot of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do like, I will spazz check the news before podcasts sometimes if I have nothing to talk about.

Speaker 1 And I don't, I, something happened to me when I was like, I think like 22, I got, I was very high. I was stoned.
I was just very high. And I was watching that.

Speaker 1 I had like, you know, it's like you you go to, I'd see the news on, like, my parents would watch it. I'd be like, well, fuck the news.
And I would be like, this sucks. And I would, like, run away.

Speaker 1 And then, like, I watched it as an adult for the first time, like, at my brother's house, just stoned to death. And I was like, this looks, it looked like the homeroom show of my high school.

Speaker 1 I was like, this is fake. Yeah.
Something happened where I was like, this is just, this is the homeroom show for adults. I'm like, this is bullshit.

Speaker 2 It's pageantry.

Speaker 1 Something happened where I can't, every time I see it, I just, I can see the set and stuff. And I'm like, this is people talking behind like a painted billboard.

Speaker 2 And it's fake. It's not real.

Speaker 1 I don't know I mean obviously there's like real stuff that happens they talk about right but it's uh I've been in newsrooms too and it's like I've heard like there was a guy and I'm not saying this is like you know like to prove it's fake but I remember a guy got a call specifically on like the Palestine Israel situation and they were like I remember he was on the phone when I was waiting to do something he was like oh, I'm feeling pretty good.

Speaker 1 And the guy was, or he was on the phone talking to the guy, being like, how you feeling about it? He's doing good, dude. Hang in there.
You're doing good. Just keep going.
Keep.

Speaker 1 And he was like coaching him. It was like, I remember just being like, damn, dude, what the fuck is this? It was just weird.
It was just a weird phone call. He'd be like, hang in there, dude.

Speaker 1 You're doing a good job. Keep talking to you.
I was literally like right next to him. That's what I was saying.
Kind of like,

Speaker 2 what are you coaching him into, dude? Yeah, I don't like that.

Speaker 1 It made me feel weird. And then I did like a good morning local news show.
I'm like, do you like comedy? And I was like, those are the worst.

Speaker 2 Dude,

Speaker 2 terrible.

Speaker 1 And you feel bad because, you know, you think like, I'm going to go on there and just fuck with these people.

Speaker 1 And it's just some like nice lady being like, so what do you like at your comedy show and you're like it's nice i like it i like comedy

Speaker 1 please come but yeah i i agree i think uh i don't know i i'll i'll like i'll check in on stuff here and there but yeah you just never know you're like dude like i'm reading a book right now it's um it's called born again and it was by

Speaker 1 Chuck Coulson, who was Richard Nixon's. They called him like his hatchet man.
He would like bulldog people politically.

Speaker 1 Like if you had like a political rival coming up, you would like dig into them and you would use your contacts in the the press to be like, run something fucked up about his wife.

Speaker 1 And they would do that. He like gets they talk about this.
Like it would like, this guy's a hothead. We'll start releasing news stories we know that'll fuck with.

Speaker 1 There's like all this stuff going on in the news where it's used as like a political tool too. Where you just never know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, like, I watched that the octopus murders. What was that? The octopus murders about Tommy Castellero, that reporter that got, that killed himself in

Speaker 2 West Virginia. But

Speaker 2 was that recent?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was pretty recent. It's on Netflix.
It's all about the promise software and

Speaker 2 these eight key figures, including George H. Bush, who were just kind of maneuvering and manipulating everything behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 This is on Netflix?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Damn.
It's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 That's kind of nuts.

Speaker 1 There's a journalist who got caught up in this?

Speaker 2 Yeah, this journalist Castellero, Tommy Castellero, I think.

Speaker 2 I can't remember his first name. But I've watched it a couple of times.
It's really fascinating, man. Like, he was really onto some wild shit.

Speaker 2 He killed himself a lot. He killed himself, yeah.
But,

Speaker 2 you know, like, it just, it doesn't really add up. Yeah.
You know, like, you should, you should check it out.

Speaker 1 Check that out. That'd be kind of cool.
But yeah,

Speaker 1 that was the one thing I fell in love with Rumin when he was like, dude, stop doing the news. Listen to classic albums straight.
That's what I do now with music. I try to just listen to it in albums.

Speaker 1 Because I would just do songs on in my car.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you ever got to the place where you're like,

Speaker 1 I've heard every, I've listened, not I've heard everything, but I've listened to all my, my little playlist is just burnout.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I use Spotify, so I'll just do like, I'll like make a little playlist or do like Spotify morning, and I'm like, yeah, fuck it, put it on.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, they're just feeding me the same songs over and I get like depressed. If I don't have like a new thing to listen to, I get kind of like,

Speaker 2 fucks the point.

Speaker 1 Same. John Martin just broke me out of my music depression right now.

Speaker 1 He has a couple old live albums I like. But the

Speaker 1 yeah, so now I try to just like put it on an album in the background and listen to it straight through or like before bed with headphones.

Speaker 1 Just try to do as much as an album as I can do and just pass out.

Speaker 1 It's kind of nice. Right.

Speaker 1 I've been chasing the hit rush. That's the problem.
I'll do a playlist of hits. Yeah.
And then it's like they just start, they like wear off. You got to listen to like all the songs.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I feel you got to listen to all the songs.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like a dopamine. Yeah.
Like an instant gratification, like social media, like you hear all the hits in a row. Like, don't go listen to the Eagles' greatest hits.
Like,

Speaker 2 you know, artists put together

Speaker 2 a compilation of songs, you know, meant to be listened to in an order.

Speaker 1 Do you do your own playlist when they do that? Like, this presents? That's so, that's kind of tough.

Speaker 2 I'm like, you know, I wanted it to be like chronological and like, you know, sequencing is a big deal. And they still make a big deal out of it.

Speaker 2 And then, and then people listen to it and they shuffle it or whatever. You know.
How dare they?

Speaker 1 I thought that was like an AI generated, like, check out blah, blah, blah. So you have the control of that.

Speaker 2 Well, the playlist you see on Spotify and stuff, like if I'm on a playlist, I don't have control of that if it's over.

Speaker 1 But the one of your, what is that called? Your picks? Or is that this is...

Speaker 2 Oh, like that one. I don't even know how that one comes about.
But like my records, I'm like, this is...

Speaker 1 Oh, I got what you're saying.

Speaker 2 My records, the sequencing is important.

Speaker 1 I thought you were saying... Okay, so you're talking about the out the sequencing records.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's out of my pay grade. Like the Spotify, they just do what they do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it'll be like editor, like artist picks. So I was like, damn, you have to put the other playlist for all of Spotify.
I guess everyone can do that, though, really.

Speaker 1 It's kind of tight. Well, dude, so what what do you have coming up?

Speaker 1 What's the next move?

Speaker 2 Man, we're about to finish this last leg of the tour. We're doing Canada.

Speaker 2 We're doing like the East Coast. We're going to be going through Philly.
We're going to be going through DC

Speaker 2 and New York City, playing at the Paramount and Brooklyn in Brooklyn. And then we're heading overseas, doing

Speaker 2 UK.

Speaker 2 All that.

Speaker 1 Are you taking any break?

Speaker 1 How do you tour? Do you do it for like six months at a time, take a break, or you just do it?

Speaker 2 We let it go out for like six weeks at a time. Okay.
You know, and just kind of hit it and stay out. Because like once I get in that mode, I just like to stay in, you know.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. So you do like six weeks on, how many off?

Speaker 2 Kind of depends. Like

Speaker 2 for this particular tour cycle, it seems like we've done like six weeks, two weeks off.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. That's kind of bad.
And then a couple of one-offs here and there. But I like to tour on a bus because it's like there's just something different about it.

Speaker 2 But, yeah, I mean, I just had time off and I just get a little stir crazy. So that's why I'm down here in Austin, just kind of fucking around.
That's cool. I was real nervous to come on here.

Speaker 2 Why, dude? I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 I don't help. I'm like zooting anxious energy all the time.

Speaker 2 I'm a big fan of the show. And the fans are very vocal.
So I hope I didn't fuck it up.

Speaker 1 Dude, you killed it, man. Yeah, dude.
You're the best. You fucking.
That's the thing, too. You shred, dude.
Oh, thanks. You absolutely shred.

Speaker 2 It's crazy.

Speaker 1 I appreciate it. I know, I guess it wears off on you, but dude, it's like, it's got to be so gratifying.
Is there a level of shred? Does it wear off?

Speaker 1 If you shred right now, will it bring you deep joy or you're just kind of like, yeah, yeah, whatever?

Speaker 2 Well, I think, you know,

Speaker 2 I try to keep the guitar

Speaker 2 fresh, you know? So when I'm home, I'm like playing banjo or piano, ukulele. That's cool.
And just trying to create in any other way except for the guitar.

Speaker 2 So when I come back to it, it's fresh and it's like, you know.

Speaker 2 a reconnection almost. That's a good idea, actually.

Speaker 1 I feel like you get better too when you leave it alone for a little bit.

Speaker 3 I think so.

Speaker 1 Something happens in your brain. I would like to stop playing every now and again and I'd pick it back up.
I'd be like, God damn it, I got better.

Speaker 2 You just you have you have more ideas. Yeah.
Because you come into it fresh. You come into a blank canvas.
Yeah. You know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, man. Or maybe your brain goes to sleep and it just figures out stuff for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't know.
But either way, dude, thank you so much, dude.

Speaker 1 Thank you for doing this. You're the motherfucking man.
Marcus King,

Speaker 1 dude, I try, bro. I'm trying.
I'm doing my best. But no, thank you so much, man.

Speaker 2 I'm glad we connected. Thank you, bro.

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