E879 Going Deeper with Carl Radke

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Speaker 3 You're crazy.

Speaker 3 All right. Are we ready?

Speaker 1 This is a really nice set, guys. Thanks, buddy.
It was great.

Speaker 1 It's funny, like, what you think it's going to look like. What'd you think it was going to? What did you think it looked like?

Speaker 4 You have no idea. Like, you'd like push this and it'd fall down.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. Like, maybe higher ceilings.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I wish they were higher ceilings.

Speaker 1 You know, I didn't know what to expect. Like, a lot of people say that when they come to to like watch what happens live with Andy, they're like, it's tiny.
I'm like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't, after you go through it, you're like, I didn't realize how small.

Speaker 3 I mean, TV in general, like the first time we went to, well, first time I got to go like to a David Letterman taping, I was like, that's it.

Speaker 3 You know, you think it's going to be like heat, this big auditorium.

Speaker 1 Same with like SNL. I went to SNL last year as a guest.

Speaker 1 And it was like tiny. I was like blown away by how, but like they do so much in that little area.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, all of like the set changes and stuff.

Speaker 3 exactly crazy how'd you get to go to a

Speaker 1 i got i befriended punky johnson who's a former she's not on this current season but she was on last season and she invited me to her green room one night and it was awesome it was cool i feel like in new york like reality tv stars get more respect you think i don't know you live there

Speaker 1 i mean there are parts of yeah i think some people after a while you do maybe get a little respect but early on there it's funny there was a group chat of a lot of our mutual friends when we first signed up for summer Summerhouse.

Speaker 1 And there was one of our guy friends who like roasted the original cast, like who signed up for it, like about you're like, you're idiots. Why are you guys doing this?

Speaker 1 But over time, he's

Speaker 1 come around. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, it's funny that we recapped Vanderpump on our like Valve House Plus. And like last two weeks ago, it was

Speaker 3 Summerhouse Rules.

Speaker 1 Yes, the first episode I was ever on, Reality 12. Yeah, sort of TV.
You look fresh there. Real fresh.
True story, that first episode, I had come back from a bachelor party in a Biza.

Speaker 1 I almost said a Biza, but I don't want to get punched just yet.

Speaker 1 I went on a seven-day bachelor party and I returned and I had 24 hours.

Speaker 1 And then that morning, I met Kyle at his apartment in Soho, and we drove to the Hamptons in my company car for the first day of filming.

Speaker 1 And he told me in the front seat, he's like, yeah, we're doing something with these girls from LA. I was like, he told me what Vanderpump Roll is.
I didn't know really what it was.

Speaker 3 Did you know you were going there to try to film a reality TV show?

Speaker 1 I knew something was going to be like, we were going to be followed around.

Speaker 1 But Kyle was like, we're just going to do what we always do, party and have a good time, and they'll follow us around and kind of do what we were normally doing.

Speaker 1 So it didn't seem like that disruptive toward regular

Speaker 1 scheduled programming. Well, Lindsay reminded me when we interviewed her is that, because I was like, I'm pretty sure I've met Lindsay, but I don't really remember.

Speaker 1 She had a PR career that flourished well before.

Speaker 3 I think it was after your guys' first season.

Speaker 3 And I was, it was right after I was the bachelor and I was in New York, I don't know, doing something, and we had some mutuals, and Lindsay was there, and she's like, yeah, I'm on this new show.

Speaker 3 I hadn't watched. I was like, I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 3 She's like pitching me the shoe and I'm like fresh. I'm like the bachelor.
So I probably got a big head or something.

Speaker 3 And like fucking seven years later, you got

Speaker 3 how many years? No, that was like 2007. Season 9.
Yeah, seven, like seven, eight years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the first season filmed in the summer of 2016, but it didn't air until 2017. Oh, that's crazy.
That's crazy. Well, welcome, Carl.
Thank you. Great to have you.

Speaker 1 Appreciate it. It's great to meet you guys in person.

Speaker 3 My team and I, we always love to come up with like really, maybe you've seen a couple like sizzles and promos for our shows.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. You guys, whoever's on the editing squad is

Speaker 1 a Hollywood trailer.

Speaker 1 Truly.

Speaker 1 The one for, you know, the one I'm talking about. Lindsay's? Oh, yeah.
That was like. I was, that was my, that was a little bit of a shit.
My heart raced faster.

Speaker 1 Sorry about that.

Speaker 3 Sorry about that, Trump.

Speaker 1 I get it. You guys made a great, great show.

Speaker 3 So, well, uh, we were discussing what what should Carls be, you know, and Leia reminded me that

Speaker 1 there, you know, because we've talked about you a couple times. Yeah.

Speaker 3 She reminded me that there, on, when West came out, that I, I suggested that you might be too afraid to come on the show.

Speaker 1 No, I initially was like, I don't do a ton of these kinds of things. No, I know.
You don't do any. Because I always felt like just let.
the show speak for itself in a way.

Speaker 1 I'm happy to do podcasts about mental health or sobriety, like really diving deep there. But I sometimes within the show,

Speaker 1 half of our fights over the last three or four seasons have been because of stuff like this. And that's where I know on other shows, it's created a lot of conflict.
I love doing this stuff.

Speaker 1 Don't get me wrong, but I felt like taking a break from it.

Speaker 3 I respect anyone who knows how to like have healthy boundaries.

Speaker 3 And as much as I love doing what we do, and as much as we grind to like get people like yourself on the show, like I absolutely respect people who like pick and choose their spots.

Speaker 3 But like, you'll see our idea, but the promo, our idea is to start to sizzle being like, I think Carl's too afraid to come on the show. And this is what we would ask him and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 And have you sit down and be like, so what do you want to know?

Speaker 1 I love it. It's a pretty good idea.
I love it. Pretty good.

Speaker 3 That being said, I mean, obviously you saw the Lindsay promo. Did you watch that episode with her?

Speaker 1 I didn't watch it. Okay, good.

Speaker 3 Good for your mental health.

Speaker 1 Did you hear good boundaries?

Speaker 1 Kyle did listen to it and some other friends. Kyle listened to it.
Some of their close friends. And I, someone sent me like a Reddit notes.
He's like, someone got to read that. Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 1 You don't have to listen to it.

Speaker 1 it was you know there was a lot it was hard obviously for a lot of different reasons but i just didn't feel like it it wouldn't do me any good to listen to all that i just let her say her thing and i was really firm on just like let the season speak for itself okay you know i didn't we were also advised not to be doing media as well so she

Speaker 4 wasn't supposed to do the interview lindsay pr so that's hey bless her heart she's really good at we appreciated it of course i am kind of shocked that you i feel like most people are the opposite Like, because you aren't in charge of editing and like what gets out there.

Speaker 4 Do you not feel like your story is a little chopped and mixed?

Speaker 4 Like, you know, like, I feel like people do like to do podcasts in longer formats because like, oh, this is where I can, people can get to know me and I'm not edited. I'm not cut down.

Speaker 4 It's not things shifted around. So it's interesting.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I, trust me, I like the opportunity to shed more light on. more about who I am and kind of the 360 of Carl.
I mean, you get to see, I mean, I feel like I'm quoting every Bravo person.

Speaker 1 Every episode is only 42 minutes long and there's commercial breaks. So you only really see eight minutes and 43 seconds of my real life.
It is kind of true, but it is.

Speaker 1 I, in the last year or two with the whole breakup stuff, I spent a lot of time just trying my best to like figure out how do I navigate all this. It's a difficult situation.

Speaker 1 I didn't want to make it any more challenging than it already was. And I felt like it was best just to stay quiet, wait until the season airs.

Speaker 1 really try to heal and watch it back and try to like move on from it. But yeah, I mean, trust me, if I can get a chance to like clear the air and like

Speaker 1 tell my side, but I'm also, I remind myself too, sometimes like it's tough in this world on Bravo. You have very women-dominated audience.

Speaker 1 Sometimes just shutting the fuck up is better and just taking accountability and saying, you know what, I screwed up. I'm going to go work on myself and just do that.

Speaker 1 I've learned from other guys on other Bravo shows that don't shut the fuck up and it doesn't help them.

Speaker 3 Well, I just want to point out to my audience and to anyone listening to this, ever since Lindsay came on, I have been begging whoever your people are. I have never spoken to you directly.

Speaker 3 I've probably DM'd you a couple times, but like I have relentlessly tried to get you on the show. So it's not because you have pitched yourself or tried to come on.

Speaker 3 I very much, you're doing us a favor.

Speaker 1 I was excited.

Speaker 1 Once I had some more time and some time to heal, I mean, even after filming this past summer, it, I mean, it took me until like June to really like just get my confidence and like my own self in a good place.

Speaker 1 And I finally, you know, feel like good. Like I felt like I was telling, talking to my mom mom about coming on to this and I was explaining who he was and his, what I know of Nick.

Speaker 1 And, you know, she, I think, recognized you or was familiar, but I just said, she's like, well, why would you want to go on that?

Speaker 1 If, you know, if maybe you have a bad feeling or I didn't have a bad feeling, but I was just saying, like, I'm nervous maybe. And she's like, this is a chance to go start a fresh chapter with someone.

Speaker 1 And you have a whole new audience that Nick talks to. And maybe there's a chance for you to like just show that who you really are in the last year.
And we love your mom.

Speaker 1 So I didn't want to build any resentment or anxiety from the past. I'm trying to work through all that stuff.

Speaker 3 Well, I appreciate that. And thank your mom for giving you that extra boost to come on the show.
I'm just like, as you're talking, I'm, you know, like you said, like, you and

Speaker 3 you and Lindsay, it's like Reality T World timing is so fucking crazy. It's like we interviewed Lindsay like a year and a half ago.

Speaker 1 It was right after BravoCon in Vegas. Okay.
So it was November of 2020.

Speaker 3 But yeah, you know, and so much has happened. And like, you know, Lindsay came on here and like

Speaker 3 said her truth. Obviously, we heard her point of view.
We were, you know, a lot of like, oh my God, I can't believe Carl.

Speaker 1 Sorry to laugh. I'm just laughing because it's

Speaker 1 like,

Speaker 3 and then I will say, though, like, we did watch the season unfold. We got to watch it.

Speaker 1 And I don't think, I mean.

Speaker 3 Usually when I have a POV, I'm like, you know, I feel good about this. But you guys, like, it was like one episode, I was like, man, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Like, fuck Carl. Then it was just like, I think Lindsay really fucked him over here.
Like, what is going on?

Speaker 3 I really didn't know where I stood. I mean, again, I really felt like there were times I was empathizing with you.

Speaker 1 you and it was like maybe lindsay is just like i don't know like maybe she just needs and then sometimes i was like i don't know carl yeah so it was it i'm glad that we finally have you here because it was it really was a storyline that seemed to have more than just one side it did you know there's always two sides i think you know someone says it best there's you know there's two sides and then there's the truth you know i her her feelings are valid all of it her experience is valid and what she you know went through and i don't want to undermine that but yeah like i all i know at the the end of the day, I feel like the right decision was made that we should not move forward with the wedding.

Speaker 1 Now, how it was, how it all unfolded, how everything went, I mean, you could always pick that apart. But I struggle with some of it just because it was such a difficult summer.

Speaker 1 And that particular conversation, like, I didn't set her up with producers. Like, they were already doing pickup filming after we had wrapped that last day and knew we weren't in a good place.

Speaker 1 So we were going to have to talk on camera one way or another. But how that conversation actually played out is literally how it played out.

Speaker 1 Like, I didn't walk into that wanting to end it, but unfortunately, that's kind of how it all distilled out. But the falling out of it all from that day was what made it.

Speaker 1 I don't, I didn't process at all like what was going to happen after like you have that conversation. And like within an hour of that, like it was on the internet.
We had broken up.

Speaker 1 I went down the street to a hotel to get some space. I stayed in that hotel that night.

Speaker 1 And then the next morning, I had gotten a text from her friends saying, hey, if you want to stop back and get some things from the apartment, because I was going to go back and visit my mom in Pittsburgh, I went back to the apartment and there was, I met a producer there to get some stuff.

Speaker 1 And as I'm coming out of the apartment, there's paparazzi outside of the house. And I was like, holy shit.
And I was going to LaGuardia.

Speaker 1 And by the time I had gotten to LaGuardia, it was on front page of page six. Like Carl is like running off to the airport.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, holy shit. Like it got really crazy for a period of time.
I think that's what made it just really unique. It felt, you know, like just, it was so public and so out there.

Speaker 1 And not everybody had seen what I, what had gone on all summer.

Speaker 3 So so I'm trying to figure out a way to frame this the question because like again getting to know you a little bit here having an opportunity to interview Lindsay I mean listen opposites do attract a lot but like in so many ways you guys could not be further further apart from people like clearly what must have made your relationship work in a lot of ways was the way that like you did balance each other out right sure But like, you know, we've all had our fun with like PR Lindsay and things like that.

Speaker 3 But I guess my question to you, not to necessarily go back to like the decision to break up with her, how you broke up with her, and just the fallout, but like, you know, you are someone who, and I say this as someone who, who I like to strategize.

Speaker 3 I, I'm, I, I can, I think you can be a genuine person and calculated, uh, but you seem a lot less calculated than Lindsay. Uh, and Lindsay has a PR background.

Speaker 3 And I couldn't help but wonder in your defense, however, whatever your intentions were when you broke up, like that must have been in the back of your mind.

Speaker 3 You know, if I break up with my girlfriend, my fiancé, we are public figures. We're on a TV show.
She's, she knows what to do here. Like, she, like, how do I,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 to me, it would make sense that you leaned in a way on the show. Like, that you're just like, oh, well, I'll,

Speaker 3 because like Nellie had an interesting question. It's this, like, it's interesting that you relied on the show to tell the story, even though.

Speaker 3 the story becomes Bravo's story and not your story, because even, even if they wanted to tell the whole story, they got commercials. It's It's an only hour episode.
And

Speaker 3 was there a part of you doing it on camera that, regardless of your intention and whether you thought it was going to end up that way or whether you planned that, but like letting it play out is because, like, at least Lindsay couldn't control that narrative as well as she's usually good at controlling narratives?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. It does.
It does. I, trust me, I wrote statements.
I had planned podcast interviews that I canceled.

Speaker 1 I thought a lot about doing what you were asking, like sharing my side of the story.

Speaker 1 But I, like I said, it felt to me as a as a male, like getting in a public platform and trying to like defend myself.

Speaker 1 It just didn't feel right, even though I felt like I did what I think you do is right, which is if it's not right to move forward at the wedding, you don't.

Speaker 1 Like I didn't want to be that guy that stood up there and it wasn't right.

Speaker 1 But I'm telling you, when I went into that summer, the amount of money we invested in all of it, I missed our cancellation for the wedding to get a full refund by seven days.

Speaker 1 I wasn't thinking about canceling anything other than trying to get on the same page with her. Yeah, that's a valid statement.

Speaker 1 That's a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Had I been about seven days sooner, I would have saved around $150,000. But that wasn't in my brain.
I was just trying to like land the plan with her.

Speaker 3 That was an excellent point.

Speaker 3 It's hard to accuse you of being premeditated.

Speaker 1 Honestly, if I was smart, I would have done it two months prior and saved myself a ton of money and pain and misery.

Speaker 1 The thing with me and her, someone asked me even recently, do you miss her? I was with Luke, actually. We're still very tight.
Luke goes, do you miss her at all? And I said, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Like she brought out

Speaker 1 the child in me at times. We were very silly.
We had a lot of funny jokes. The history we've had over the years of filming Summerhouse.

Speaker 1 Off camera, what people don't realize is like you spend two and a half hours on the drive from Manhattan to the Hamptons pretty much every Friday.

Speaker 1 And then on Sunday, for the first six or seven seasons, her and I pretty much rode out there and back for the most part. So we built a very strong bond.

Speaker 1 But I think as you get like into this world, like it's nice to like date someone or be with someone who gets it and knows what it's like and understands all these things.

Speaker 1 She also is like, I mean, Lindsay's like a lot of fun. I had a ton of fun with her over the time.

Speaker 1 So I think how it kind of all transpired, like us getting together, it was almost like it was destined to be like we had spent so much time with each other.

Speaker 1 We had this kind of chemistry, you know, and I had gotten sober, you know, had about eight, nine months under my belt, but that was like that pivotal time.

Speaker 1 where I probably should have been like, you know, I really need to stay like focused on me and not enter into a relationship.

Speaker 1 I was advised by many people in AA and other groups, stay sober a year, like don't enter a relationship. And I did break that rule with her.
Now, the argument I made to myself was we're best friends.

Speaker 1 We've known each other forever.

Speaker 3 Well, when you're in love,

Speaker 1 yeah. And I don't know.
It's, um, I've learned a ton over the last couple of years as a result of this whole thing. And I, I don't have any regret.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm glad I tried to pursue a relationship with her. I wish things maybe, I wish I could have handled things differently.
I never wanted to hurt her.

Speaker 1 Um, but I think you'll see after watching this new season of the show, it was kind of wild to see her. It made me in a weird way, like happy because I saw her happy outside of me.

Speaker 1 She had a really fun summer with the rest of the group. People actually said, I wish she was pregnant more often, you know, like, cause she was just happier and just in a lighter mood.

Speaker 1 And her demeanor was, for the most part, really positive, which was nice.

Speaker 3 So less activated, Lindsay.

Speaker 1 Very less activated. And even funnier, we both were, you know, she had her non-alcoholic drinks.
I had mine. Now we didn't cross-pollinate.
She had her own.

Speaker 4 Do you think you will always know your intention going into the day you broke up with her? And she'll always have her perception and they'll always be different.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think probably some realities will be different.

Speaker 1 But I think,

Speaker 1 like I said, I lived that summer. You know, one thing I want to remind people that I don't think are fully aware is we had.

Speaker 1 gone into couples therapy about a month after we got engaged the prior summer. So we got engaged at the end of August.
We went into couples therapy about October.

Speaker 1 And it was like we had still had these kind of conflicts and this challenge of communication styles. And I'm not kidding, like we at one point in our couples therapy did a Gottman exam.

Speaker 1 And a Gottman exam is each couple takes it individually.

Speaker 1 Then the therapist reviews the results and then has meetings with you individually to kind of understand more about the psychological things going on in the relationship. And I'm telling you,

Speaker 1 the alarm was sounded big time when these tests were revealed individually.

Speaker 3 That's like the couple, they're all the couple and they can predict with like 98% accuracy to based on how you communicate, you know, whether you will get divorced or not.

Speaker 1 And there was a lot of things that trickled down from that, which were very real in the relationship, but were very, you know, things that we had to really focus on.

Speaker 1 But we went into a couple's therapist's office every week from October, November of that fall to the basically the time we broke up that you saw.

Speaker 4 Do you feel like you were just going to go or do you feel like y'all were actively doing the work?

Speaker 1 I felt like we were doing the work.

Speaker 1 And honestly, there was things that we learned in the room, like certain tools that we would try to implement within a conversation or within an argument to try and either diffuse or create more of like a safe space to have that kind of dialogue.

Speaker 1 We both are emotional people. And I think sometimes the world we played in, I'll give you an example.
Like Kyle went on an interview and said some stuff that Lindsay had said about me.

Speaker 1 And like at home,

Speaker 1 you don't have like a, babe, I wish you would have said something different.

Speaker 1 Like it's what the fuck, you know, and like you get a level of intensity in her and I, as you've seen in previous seasons, have an intensity behind it. So

Speaker 1 we weren't communicating as, I think, healthy adults, but we were trying to use those tools in the room. But every, I feel like we would go two steps forward and one step back.
Yeah.

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Speaker 3 I think early in the season, there was a lot of frustration from the audience, from Kyle, from a lot of people of what seemed like Lindsay weaponizing your sobriety against you.

Speaker 3 Can you, you know, add context to that? Like, you know, what's the truth, you know, versus like what we got to see

Speaker 3 on Bravo and things like that. And like, yeah, because I don't know if you were like California sober or, you know, all these kind of different terms when it comes to sobriety and things like that.

Speaker 3 But yeah, it's, it was sometimes tough to watch because, you know, here you are doing a lot of work on your sobriety.

Speaker 3 You've had a very front row seat to, you know, your brother and his passing and just a lot of very sensitive issues.

Speaker 3 So it was very tough at times to see Lindsay coming at you all while consuming alcohol as well. And like, not that she's not allowed to do that if she's not,

Speaker 3 you know, but again, if you are in an engagement with someone who clearly, you know, is doing a lot of work, it seemed like she was falling short of supporting you on this journey.

Speaker 3 And again, almost leveraging it to her advantage if she got caught in a pickle. But again,

Speaker 3 is that how it felt?

Speaker 1 That particular moment, I wasn't on anything. What I'll fully admit is I drank Red Bull.

Speaker 3 Oh, fuck you up.

Speaker 1 And it had been something that had happened some other situations in our relationship where I drank a fair amount of Red Bull.

Speaker 1 Actually, the day before we got engaged, I drank a ton of Red Bull and I actually went to the ER. I mean, she's told the story.
It was on an episode from that season.

Speaker 1 That night, I was excited to be there because we're with our group of friends. The more energy you're giving to the program, the better it is.
Like you got to bring it.

Speaker 1 And I drank a couple of Red Bulls, was excited, but I wasn't on any drugs. Now, how I define my sobriety, I, in my first year, I worked this program, go to AA, work the steps, fully sober.

Speaker 1 As I've entered into, you know, additional years of my sobriety journey, I started to try and figure out how do I resolve my anxiety and depression.

Speaker 1 There are ways you can do it naturally, but I didn't want to be prescribed Xanax, which I was in the past and I abused. I was prescribed Adderall.
I abused that. I used to be prescribed ambient.

Speaker 1 So when I got sober, I was like, how do I keep my like anxiety levels and my depression in a reasonable place? And I've been diagnosed with anxiety and depression.

Speaker 1 So I actually started exploring THC, like tincture, taking little droplets in the evening, helping with sleep. I found a medical grade pen.

Speaker 1 Now at times, sometimes socially, yeah, I would take some THC. But in those moments, I was completely dead sober.

Speaker 1 And I think that's where I was, it felt so like strange because I was really sober and she's like having these feelings.

Speaker 1 But it also like, like that moment, the cocaine Carl thing, I mean, no one's ever called me that

Speaker 1 in the history of your fiance. The nickname I had, anybody who really knows me, because I had a, I'm a Coke addict.
I'm an alcoholic. Like I was a crazy cocaine person.

Speaker 1 Anybody who knew me, it was crazy Carl. That was my name.
Cocaine Carl was never anything that was uttered.

Speaker 1 And that's why it felt so crazy but i never knew she said that until the show aired i'd heard some from someone after the fact like she said something about cocaine i'm like okay whatever and then the show aired and that's what i i watched oh that's interesting but i want to say this and i've been really practicing a lot like lindsay deserves a lot of credit because dating someone who has addiction who has challenges like myself it's very challenging for them and they deserve more grace i think sometimes than they get it's not easy i also didn't know how to communicate all the time what I was needing from my partner to best support me.

Speaker 1 At one point, Al-Anon was something that was brought up, which I think would have been a really healthy thing for the both of us, but that never was explored.

Speaker 1 You know, she never did go to, and I'm not blaming her for that, but I think there could have been some things maybe learned from that element.

Speaker 1 But, you know, like she, she also was very supportive at times. She really knew that I socially was.
maybe struggling at, you know, certain elements of stuff.

Speaker 3 But she always, when I first got sober, was like so helpful and like inviting me places and i could be myself around her oh i appreciate you saying that because well one i mean i've been fortunate enough that like i i haven't had to a personally deal with addiction and fortunately people in my inner circle i i haven't had that much experience with it but i know enough to know how challenging it can be and just like you know reality tv in general what is asked of all of you and couple that with you trying to be sober stay sober go be on the sobriety journey be vulnerable with your fiancé be in you know it's like it's it's not it's a it's a it's not easy it's not easy well i mean i said this someone asked me i was at tom tom on saturday

Speaker 1 shout out

Speaker 1 saying hi to shorts uh it's yeah they had a little little brunch um how's tom you doing he's good he seems good actually almost like a weight lifted off his shoulders almost now that the other things have been kind of closed out.

Speaker 1 I think he was just, I mean, the amount of cash they were burning and all of it, but he he seems like in a really good place.

Speaker 1 But someone asked me on Saturday, like, here I am standing at Tom Tom, people are ripping shots and I'm just drinking a mocktail. And then people are like, how do you film Summerhouse

Speaker 1 around all these people? And I, I mean this. I wouldn't be on Summerhouse if I did drink because I wouldn't be there.
I literally would not be there.

Speaker 1 Anybody who knows earlier summers, the show, I drank on the car rides out.

Speaker 1 I was,

Speaker 1 my famous term was playing through. So I'd go out Thursday night in New York City, play through, shower, go to the production car the next morning.

Speaker 1 I'd have either a brown paper bag of twisted tea or whatever I wanted. And that's what I did for many summers.

Speaker 4 When do you think you realized you had an addiction to cocaine and alcohol?

Speaker 1 Honestly, I didn't want to admit it fully. I'll never forget.
There was a, she's a woman, she's an executive at one of the companies we work with.

Speaker 1 And she's been very, very helpful and supportive of me over the years.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, they knew what was going on. They were mic'd up half the time and they could see certain things.

Speaker 1 But I was basically sat down at one point in 2019 by executives that were like, hey, we're concerned. I was like, okay, it's my drinking.
I got it figured out.

Speaker 1 No, it wasn't just my drinking, but I thought I could just get away with saying it's just my drinking. But anybody who knew Carl knew that one drink and it was on, it was on always.

Speaker 1 But she at one point said to me, Carl, and I'll never forget it. She looked at me and she's like, is it just your drinking?

Speaker 1 And I started like unraveling because for the first time, I actually had someone call me out and say, I know it's not just alcohol. It's, it's Coke.
And

Speaker 1 all the other shit as a result, I would take Xanax to kind of come down. I would take Ambien to help sleep, all the things.
But it still wasn't like right away.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm going to go to, you know, get my help. I

Speaker 1 did it in my own, you know, bullish alpha male way. Like, I'll figure it out.
I'll, you know, do this. But

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of people tell me early on, like, hey, you need to get some help. But it wasn't until like this particular adult told me, like, I know.
And I'm like, oh, shit. Wow.

Speaker 1 But it wasn't still from that point. It took me another year and a half, two years to actually like fall on my knees.
But it was a rock bottom moment that I had that really rocked.

Speaker 1 I mean, that particular summer of season five was the COVID summer of Summer House. We were all locked in this house.

Speaker 1 you know, and I, my mom had gotten remarried and a week later, my brother had passed away. And I got the phone call while we were filming.

Speaker 1 Paige also tells a story, like she could hear me crying from bedroom to bedroom. She like woke up at seven in the morning because that's when I got the call.

Speaker 1 And I immediately ran up to Kyle's bedroom to tell him what had happened. And everybody really rallied around me that particular summer.

Speaker 1 And, but it was when the summer ended, I went back to my old Soho apartment. As I would joke, it was like my fuckboy pad.

Speaker 1 And I went right back into doing drugs and drinking all the time, but I was doing it alone.

Speaker 1 I would drink all day by myself and do cocaine by myself in my apartment and like call people, text people, say crazy shit. Just was on this downward spiral.

Speaker 1 But in early, in that fall of 2019, I was telling Lindsay, I need to move out of my Soho apartment. I need to get out of here.
Maybe that'll help. She's like, check out my building.

Speaker 1 And I had been going to her building a fair amount and her building had some availability. So I actually found an apartment in Lindsay's building that December of 2019 and moved in.

Speaker 1 And that's what developed our friendship even further. But I thought at the time, like, it'd be good to be around a friend if I'm going to actually go and like get sober.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I moved into that apartment and first weekend, I told myself, I'm going to get in this this new apartment. I'm not going to drink or do drugs in it.
That lasted a day.

Speaker 1 And from that point on, like early January of 2021 is when the show was going to be airing soon. And that COVID season, I was going to have to watch the episode of my brother.

Speaker 1 Like I just had this horrible anxiety and all this fear and shame because here I am drinking alone, doing cocaine alone. And people were celebrating me at that time.

Speaker 1 Like, cause I was seemingly doing okay publicly. And people were celebrating how I was reacting to my brother's passing.
And

Speaker 1 it was the most, I mean, talk about, what's the term?

Speaker 1 Not fraud, but

Speaker 1 there's another term I'm drawing the blank on.

Speaker 3 Imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1 Imposter syndrome. I felt like an imposter.
I was like, I guess that one, too. Because I felt like I was getting like all the, like, there was literally an article.

Speaker 1 I screenshot it from The Sun, whatever, the UK tabloid. Oh, that's.
Like, fans praise Carl Radke for the, you know, how he's dealing with the passing of his brother. I'm literally.

Speaker 1 holding a jar of cocaine in my hand reading this and i'm like this is terrible but i kept kind of digging myself deeper because all this fear of my brother's episode that was going to be coming.

Speaker 1 Can we talk about your brother? Sure. We're all close.
Yeah. I mean, he was kind of my

Speaker 1 birthday will be tomorrow. Oh, wow.
He would have been 45 years old. Wow.

Speaker 1 No, he was an amazing athlete. I love sports.
I looked up to him. I'd say, I think for a period of time, he was my hero.

Speaker 1 He was somebody I always just like admired and wanted to be like until he went kind of a different direction. And that that was around

Speaker 1 since we're five years apart. It was around when I was eight or nine years old when I started to see more things at home.
You know, he was drinking, getting invites to my parents, running away.

Speaker 1 There was police activity at our house.

Speaker 1 I mean, he had gotten arrested. I mean, the police had been at our home countless times.
And I told this story. My mom's like, oh, you're revising history.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, this is what I remember, but I was having a party at our home and we lived in a small house in Pittsburgh. We weren't poor, but blue collar, worked hard.

Speaker 1 And I had a group of friends over. and my brother had gotten in some sort of

Speaker 1 involved in some sort of issue, like a robbery at a convenience store the night before. And we had five cop cars show up to our house on a Saturday afternoon with NFL playoff football on in January.

Speaker 1 And basically the cop knocks at the door. We have a warrant to search the house.
We have to arrest your son. So my brother gets arrested in front of all my friends.
And he's like a teenager?

Speaker 1 He's like 17. I was like 12.
Wow. And my dad, I'll never forget, he calls some of the friends of mine's parents to come pick up their kids.

Speaker 1 And it's just like, that was stuff that happened in high school a lot. And most people around our town or friends of mine all knew that my brother had issues.

Speaker 1 But at that point, I was like, I distanced myself. So to answer your question, were we close? Yes, but no.
Like I didn't want to be like him.

Speaker 1 I walked into my high school and everybody's like, oh, watch out for Curtis Radke's brother. So I made a point very early on.
I'm going to do the exact opposite of everything he did.

Speaker 3 How did you come to like even start consuming cocaine and some of these other drugs?

Speaker 1 Syracuse University.

Speaker 1 I have a small smile on my face because

Speaker 1 I honestly, I think it was a crash course in like not only drinking, but you know, cocaine use. And anybody who went to Syracuse would say this.
But

Speaker 1 my roommates from college, you know, I went to I was in Pittsburgh. Like we didn't, I didn't know what Coke was really until college, but my roommate in college, we went to Acapulco.

Speaker 1 And that was the first time I did cocaine. It was in Acapulco, Mexico on one of those spring break trips.
But it wasn't until really I got back to New York in my later 20s where it was more of like a.

Speaker 4 It's definitely more of a thing in New York.

Speaker 1 It was a thing. And like I had joked, like you could order a bag quicker than you can get a pizza.
And it's true. I would play that game at night with friends.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, you order a pizza, I'll order Coke and see who gets here first.

Speaker 1 Just stupid shit. I'm not glorifying it.
Trust me.

Speaker 3 No, but I mean, thanks for opening up about that.

Speaker 1 No, and then I'd say it gave me a confidence. I'm a people pleaser.

Speaker 1 When I was growing up, for the most part, like I was shy at points, even though like I didn't mature as fast as some of my guy friends, I was a little more like, I don't know, I just wasn't like fully filled out.

Speaker 1 So I was a late bloomer. So I didn't have confidence all the time to like walk up to girls.
Or I always felt like a little

Speaker 1 not fully like confident. Discovering alcohol and cocaine gave me like this, this other like, my mom jokes, it's like you're on steroids.
I was

Speaker 1 different kinds.

Speaker 1 But it gave me like this confidence to like, to be someone I thought I would be like.

Speaker 3 Or just get out of your head.

Speaker 3 And, you know I have anxiety too like I overthink and it's just like yeah I think that's what it does it just it just kind of lowers those inhibitions yep you know that have its consequences but some of the positives is doing that is just get out get out of your own fucking way sometimes it feels like right totally but New York especially I mean I you'd walk into a bathroom any bathroom for the most part you're not trying to do it that night but someone's doing a key bump at the stall and you're like all right fuck it I appreciate you opening it up because I think it's just one of those things that like again people will talk about getting sober.

Speaker 1 They'll talk about AA a lot.

Speaker 3 And I'm, you know, the little bit I know about AAs, when you go there, you will share some of the stories and some of the shit that happened.

Speaker 3 But I think, I feel like publicly that it doesn't get discussed a lot. And I think, you know, as two young parents, we have a one-year-old and like life's great right now.

Speaker 3 And like, you know, she's, you know, we, we can take great care. It's easy to take good care of her.
You know, you just have to be present and give a shit, right?

Speaker 3 I'm sure you're aware on some level, but like Salt Lake City, Mary has opened up about her son's addictions. And

Speaker 1 that's powerful.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Well, I'm curious what you think about that, but we were talking about it earlier today.

Speaker 3 And I just like, I give Mary a lot of credit, you know, because like you can't, you don't, there's no way you can't watch Mary and talk about her son. That is a woman who loves her son, you know?

Speaker 3 She is a, she is a present parent, you know, and she talks about just how involved. she is in her son's life and yet she didn't know this was going on.

Speaker 3 And I think part of it is this like talking about the accessibility of these things and talking about the lifestyle that you were leading when shit like happened i think i i just feel like it doesn't really get discussed publicly enough where like parents even you know anyone listening now just like this shit is out there you don't have to be a kid from the wrong side of the tracks or whatever the fuck it is you know what i'm saying like it's it's it's very easy for anyone to get caught up in shit like this if you don't know what you're looking for and and you can never assume that you or your kids are safe if you know it's so talking about this and putting it out there i think brings a lot of awareness that is otherwise not totally and i i applaud mary and her son robert you know for opening up like that i mean it it helps me and like unfortunately with certain topics you know i think it's challenging to discuss some of the addiction stuff publicly um i you know i don't know if people remember this but early on in summer house i talked about my brother's addiction and it actually caused a huge rift between us because I spoke about it almost making an excuse of why I was acting the way I was acting.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh, my brother struggles with drugs at home. He's a heroin addict, making light of it.
And he had seen that.

Speaker 1 So it's really, it's hard to discuss these topics publicly, but I think the more we do, the more it kind of destigmatizes it and just lessens like the fear or shame or guilt because that's a big part of it.

Speaker 1 I don't know, I feel like I, I'm called in a way to like, you just open up and be really honest because I'm telling you, the amount of people that still aren't really really honest about cocaine or pills.

Speaker 3 Maybe the drinking is less so, but like because it's so socially acceptable. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Where, you know, you have a lot of parents and I, it gave me a lot of grace for my mom and my dad.

Speaker 1 And I think hopefully for parents like yourself, as your children get older, how challenging it is to support and understand

Speaker 1 a child or a sibling who struggles with drugs or alcohol. It created a massive, we thought my brother's fucked up.
He was an asshole. He's a piece of shit.
No, he's sick.

Speaker 1 it's like how do you shift that thinking from this person's horrible they're they're stealing from us they're lying to us they're cheating all these things but it took a lot of work to get onto this side which is he can't help himself there's a small kid in there that's really sick and struggling and it was important to like i seeing stuff like mary and robert like it's the parents do the best they can and sometimes it's not even good enough either you know and it's I have just applaud people for sharing openly.

Speaker 1 I want to keep sharing openly because I hope it creates others that want to talk openly.

Speaker 1 I know five years ago, I would have thought I would have ever admitted publicly I had a cocaine problem, like you would have been crazy.

Speaker 1 But now it's like, let's go. Like, it just, there's no point in not owning it.

Speaker 4 Did you ever, with your brother, I know y'all weren't as close through your teenage years. Did you reconnect at any point?

Speaker 1 Yeah. So when I graduated from college, you know, we.

Speaker 1 I moved to Los Angeles shortly after I graduated from Syracuse and I had a credit card that I'd gotten. I had like a limit of $1,500.
And I love the party still then.

Speaker 1 I bought a table in a club in Pittsburgh. We were balling out.
It was like a thousand bucks.

Speaker 1 And my brother had heard through the grapevine that I like spent $1,000 at the nightclub and I had moved to LA like a couple of days after this. And he like lit me up.

Speaker 1 He's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know, you're moving to LA. You're about to start your dream.
And like, you're pissing me. Like, so he was giving me tough brother love at that point.

Speaker 1 And then I joined the show and he originally was really happy for me and so pumped. And he watched the show to support me.

Speaker 1 He turns on the show and it's me in the interview chair talking head going, yeah, my brother's a heroin addict.

Speaker 1 So this is true.

Speaker 1 Like you can ask Kyle or any of those seasons. Lindsay remember this.
My brother went on Facebook at that time and posted and posted.

Speaker 1 This is the drug addict brother that Carl Radke on Bravo, like he tagged executives on Bravo. He tagged Kyle Lindsay, the season one cast.
My brother went on this Facebook tirade.

Speaker 1 And then sadly, like a month later, my grandfather passed and his name's Carl Radke. I, you know, took on the same name.

Speaker 1 My grandfather was like a big, big like center rock of our family and he had passed away. And I was carrying the casket with my brother for this funeral.

Speaker 1 And we both were supposed to give eulogies, but he hated me. Like we didn't speak to each other.
And the only time he spoke to me is we were carrying my grandfather's casket.

Speaker 1 And I just tried to like tell him I loved him and I was sorry. And that's actually the last time I spoke to him.

Speaker 1 So I still,

Speaker 1 I don't know, it's it's hard. I had an opportunity to talk to him before we filmed season five because he wanted to reach out and connect.

Speaker 1 But basically, my TV show said what I said about his addiction created a massive divide. And the last time I spoke to him for real was actually at my grandmother's funeral.

Speaker 3 How have you worked through that? Because that would be,

Speaker 3 you seem, you clearly are talking to you as someone who's really done some work and try.

Speaker 1 More to go, but. Sure, we all do.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But that's a heartbreaking story.

Speaker 1 It's something I've had to, I've struggled to live with a little bit because

Speaker 1 I think a lot of us, sometimes when you have a loved one who's struggling, how you, it's really hard to deal with it.

Speaker 1 And I was very selfish. I was also in my own addiction and blaming other people and not taking accountability or responsibility.

Speaker 1 But what I learned from that and how we talk about people's challenges or struggles is very important.

Speaker 1 And it's key to like really take a step back and realize like you wouldn't be mad at someone someone who has cancer or someone who's got a broken leg.

Speaker 1 But for whatever reason, on these, like this other mental stuff and these addictions, like it's really hard for people to like have some grace and understand a lot of times these people aren't, they wish they could change too, but they don't know how.

Speaker 4 How did y'all even find out that he had a heroin addiction?

Speaker 1 I mean, I actually used to watch him shoot heroin.

Speaker 1 We lived in a very small house that we shared a, it was a, you know, one floor on the second floor of our house, but it was just one big room. On my left side was where I slept and on his side.

Speaker 1 So I didn't realize at the time, but I was about 12, I saw him with needles and stuff, and I found needles.

Speaker 3 Man, so he was doing that shit for a while.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that's what's even crazier. And

Speaker 1 I think how I am at peace with it, my brother is in a safer place. He lived a very hard life.
And a lot of folks who are in severe heroin addiction, my dad used to take him to the methadone clinic.

Speaker 1 And if you've ever seen the show on FX

Speaker 1 with Michael Keaton,

Speaker 1 dope sick.

Speaker 1 I couldn't get through it. It's, it's very painful to watch some of that because of just that world is very, it's upsetting.
No, it's very, it's, it's just, it's, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 But my dad made the comment to me when he would take him there. He's like, you don't see any old people there.
Literally 22-year-old kids walking out with method on clitic.

Speaker 1 You don't see anybody past that. And he's like, you know why? I'm like, of course.

Speaker 1 So my brother lived well past most people, but

Speaker 1 the way I look at it now, like if I could have changed and gone back that episode of Summerhouse and not get that call while we're filming, I would have done that.

Speaker 1 But I, the way I look at it and the way I've turned it over is my brother at his core, I was told this after he passed, but like in rehabs, he would administer Narcan to other people.

Speaker 1 He was kind of leading little groups of the younger guys being like, hey, I'm 44, like still, or whatever, how old he was.

Speaker 1 He always wanted to help people.

Speaker 1 And as a vehicle through me, if I, you know, can tell his story and honor myself by getting sober, getting help. Like, what kind of person am I?

Speaker 1 You know, if I don't do that after going through something like that, I felt like it was honoring my family, honoring my brother and honoring myself was like, I had to really look in the mirror here.

Speaker 1 And I wouldn't have really done that if my brother had not, you know, had that happen. But it happening so publicly, I mean, I've had thousands and thousands and thousands of messages.

Speaker 1 I'm sure like Mary and Robert have been getting and that kind of accolade in love. That to me was the amount of people that I've touched and my brother touched and helped maybe one or two people then.

Speaker 1 I think my brother would say, like,

Speaker 1 that's a plus, right? Like, I would do anything to get him back.

Speaker 4 What's something that you loved about your brother?

Speaker 1 He had an amazing sense of humor.

Speaker 1 I said this yesterday to someone. The show Arrested Development

Speaker 1 when it first came out on Fox was not, like, people did not go, this is amazing.

Speaker 1 It got basically canceled after the first season. But my brother used to watch Arrested Development first season.
And I just remember him laughing to this show. And I'm like, why is this funny?

Speaker 1 It was, but it was before we were ready for it. But he had an amazing sense of humor and he loved music.

Speaker 1 So to this day, I turn on certain songs and listen to music with them. So.

Speaker 3 Well, thank you for sharing all that. I know it's not easy.
And, you know, I know the fight against addiction is an ongoing one and that one that you'll never, you know, fully conquer.

Speaker 3 But how are you doing? And do you feel like you're a pretty comfortable place right now and reduced from risks of kind of going back to that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 You know, I think working the program and working steps, hearing other people's stories of strength and hope, as they say, you know, you said something earlier, which kind of like the perception of going to AA is like everybody's got like a brown paper bag and they're dirty and haggard looking.

Speaker 1 And yes, there are folks that are still really struggling and come in like that.

Speaker 1 But I was blown away by the other side of this world, which was Goldman Sachs executives, actors you've recognized on major TV shows, successful people, well-to-do individuals who couldn't get out of the way of drugs or alcohol.

Speaker 1 And hearing that and seeing other people like living like that, I was like, oh, I can do that too.

Speaker 1 I probably could have gotten sober without it, but staying and then now being social, going out, filming a reality show that there's a lot of drinking.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like I've learned a lot where now it's just like, I don't even, it doesn't even phase me because I just know what it's going to, how it's going to affect me.

Speaker 1 Like I, you don't drink bleach, right? Like, I look at alcohol the same way. Just, it's going to make me sick and I'm going to do drugs and I'm probably going to die.

Speaker 3 That's, um,

Speaker 1 wow.

Speaker 3 But credit to all you and all the work you've done.

Speaker 1 It's, trust me, I still, to answer your question in full, like, I feel pretty good.

Speaker 1 I'm also still learning, you know, how to communicate as a, like a sober person. I'm, I still have emotions and still get bothered by things.

Speaker 1 And, you know, there's a lot of work that still goes into staying this way or, you know, dealing with life uh as it comes at you because things like i lost my chapstick in the car outside on the way here and i was mad for like 30 seconds and like it's stupid right take a breath it's like it's chapstick who cares but like yeah no had i been drunk i probably would have flipped out of the the driver and told him like your car sucks how can a chapstick fall through the like the scene yeah yeah so for me it just it creates like instead of like these peaks and valleys that i used to live off of it's now just like a wave you and the more you're a wave like this and something crazy comes up here, the better you can deal with it.

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, you know, and also people who don't struggle with addiction.

Speaker 3 I mean, for me, like growing, like maturing and getting older as a human being is to like realize like all the shit I don't really need to give a fuck about.

Speaker 3 And I just decided to for whatever reason, you know?

Speaker 1 It's just like, yeah, it's funny how like perspective and some time, oh, some space from things and how that does help just taking a pause and reflecting on things. But yeah, I

Speaker 1 don't know. I saw in here, you went to Harvard Business School? I did a program.
Okay. From my.
It's pretty cool. Yeah.
So when I worked at, it was called Ormco,

Speaker 1 stands for Orthodontic Research Manufacturing Company.

Speaker 1 We sold orthodontic supplies and dental supplies, and they had a program that you could apply for within staying, working there full time, but also going to like this digital Harvard Business School course.

Speaker 1 That's very cool. It's really cool.

Speaker 1 I struggled at it big time. Oh, well, I hate school.

Speaker 1 It was very hard.

Speaker 3 Can we talk about, and maybe you'll remember the specifics more than I do because it was a bit ago, but the whole like softer Lindsay conversation.

Speaker 3 Because I think that was a time in which we were less team Carl. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm glad we can talk about this because I feel some of that was taken out of context to a degree. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Can you, but can you share your point of view from that time? Yeah. Just kind kind of maybe even offer, bring people back to that time and what was

Speaker 1 there's a really good quote about this that I found. Lao Zhu, he's a philosopher and he's got these really like beautiful quotes about softness.

Speaker 1 And he says,

Speaker 1 soft is strong. And I know this probably doesn't answer your question.
And I understand why people were.

Speaker 1 Where Lindsay was coming from in some of like the softer commentary, like what she was comparing, it's like saying to a man, be more like a man.

Speaker 1 And I understand and how I maybe delivered that and what I was expressing. But I think what I struggle with a little bit is Lindsay has all those qualities.

Speaker 1 Lindsay can be very warm and soft and offering that support. And that's all I was looking for because she has given that in other instances.

Speaker 1 But when you're looking for a new career and you're weighing options for a job and you're trying to get the buy-in from your partner, when up until that point, it had been contentious about what I was trying to do with a career and what I was doing next.

Speaker 1 I was thinking in my head, like I can express what I was needing and hoping that she would understand.

Speaker 1 Now, the way it was delivered, and how I think it got interpreted was, I mean, derogatory and misogynist for sure, but that wasn't necessarily my intention.

Speaker 1 It was more about, you know, I have anxiety and depression. And a lot of times, like, how I can feel better is like a hug.
And I know I got torched for asking her for a hug in that particular moment.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, but you know, I will say you mentioned this earlier before.

Speaker 3 You know, women, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 1 I was going to read the quote: What is soft is strong. Water is fluid, soft, and yielding, but water will wear away rock, which is rigid and cannot yield.

Speaker 1 As a rule, whatever is fluid, soft, and yielding will overcome whatever is rigid and hard. What is soft is strong.

Speaker 3 That's all you were trying to say?

Speaker 1 That's all I was trying to say.

Speaker 1 Case closed.

Speaker 1 She has those qualities, absolutely, but job searching and I don't know, anybody who's ever tried to find a new job and their wife doesn't necessarily love what they're trying to do or their partner, it's it was hard.

Speaker 3 Well, you said, you know, it was misogynistic. I don't think this gets mentioned a lot.

Speaker 3 I'll probably even get shit for saying this, but obviously, and I'm very grateful for the audience that we have here.

Speaker 1 It's mostly women.

Speaker 3 I love talking about the same stuff that they love listening and talking about as well.

Speaker 3 You're on a show that's primarily consumed by women. And a lot about your show is these interpersonal relationships between men and women.
And

Speaker 3 not, you know, listen, as straight white men,

Speaker 3 we have very little to complain about. I'm not sure.
Of course.

Speaker 1 Very privileged. I'm not here to complain.
But

Speaker 3 it's, boy, it's really hard to thread the needle in a relationship fight and

Speaker 3 men trying to express

Speaker 3 feelings, period, let alone frustration or anger or just communicate a need from their partner. I mean, behind closed doors, when Nellie and I are disconnected.

Speaker 1 You guys are perfect communicators, right? Perfect.

Speaker 3 You know, but like, you know, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure I've said something that like if the audience was hearing like, well, that's been time.
You know, it's like, fuck, man.

Speaker 3 Like, what am I supposed to say, man? I'm just trying to tell you how I feel.

Speaker 3 And everything that you guys do is on camera for us to break down and dissect and be like, what did you fucking say?

Speaker 1 Do you ever struggle

Speaker 1 with that? I do a little bit, but I've, again, this is the growth in me, I hope, a little bit is I've tried to take a lot of that. And I've been fortunate to be on this for now, nine seasons.

Speaker 1 use a lot of what you we're going through stuff in real time it's being recorded and then we are now reliving it later on with a lot more amplification and quality production and all of that but as you relive it the second time for me i take it as an opportunity to go okay that's not how i want to operate or treat someone or communicate like i've tried to take a lot of what not unlike how football players watch footage after they play a game to break down tape i tried to do that a little bit and use it as a learning lesson because to your point i don't think a lot of us have audience in our bedrooms it's always your opinion and hers and then the truth,

Speaker 1 just like we're dealing with in the show. So now having these other audience members or other people weighing in, I hope it's helped me become a better version of myself to a degree.

Speaker 1 But you also just sometimes have to go, you know what? We've all had, you know, things we said, you know, we wish we didn't say or we could have said differently.

Speaker 1 And we all know why we're here. We're making hopefully an entertaining thing.
We're supposed to be living and giving our life.

Speaker 1 And the moment they stop getting mad at what we're saying to each other interpersonally, probably the show's done. So I guess it's like,

Speaker 1 you kind of sign up for some of it, but being a women-dominated audience, which I absolutely love, like we're, we have the best network on TV because the audience that watches Bravo, like, they give a shit.

Speaker 1 They're so engaged. They really care.
They, to this day, I don't have people come up to me in person, ever say, you're an asshole. I've never had that.
But on social media, you do.

Speaker 1 In person, I get hugged. People call me up to me and they're very kind and generous.
And even the people that I'm sure have an opinion will always be like, well, you know, you made a mistake.

Speaker 1 You're learning.

Speaker 3 That's why we love the show, right? Because you're only a real asshole if you watch the show in pure judgment and be like, you know, it's just like what you and the housewives, like

Speaker 3 I couldn't do.

Speaker 3 I could not do what you guys do. I mean, yeah, I was on the bachelor for a period of time.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I can do the bachelor. It's kind of what's different.

Speaker 3 It's different. Yeah, but like, yeah, but yeah, that was, I got shit for going back a few times.
You guys keep showing up every season.

Speaker 3 And like, you know, yeah, Bachelor has its challenges with boundaries. But like, Bravo is, it's like, tell us your shit.
Like, you're not allowed to have secrets.

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Speaker 3 She was there in the different time?

Speaker 4 I mean, it's reported that the two of you were spotted.

Speaker 1 Hand of God, I've never met her. I don't even know what she looks like.
You could hold up four pictures of people right now, and I don't, I wouldn't. Sorry, Maria.

Speaker 4 Okay, so debunked, not spotted with Maria at Tom Tom.

Speaker 1 I got spotted with Maria.

Speaker 4 Okay, but you were spotted with Jesse from the Valley prior.

Speaker 1 I got together with Jesse from the Valley.

Speaker 1 What I said to Jesse, because he and his wife are going through a divorce, and I didn't know all of some of the nuance to it, but he was asking me, he's like, dude, I went into that season last year.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, her and I were about to go on a big trip and then everything went haywire.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, well, every season, I feel like with what we do is the thing you don't want to talk about is the exact thing they want to talk about.

Speaker 1 And the thing that you go into that season wanting to promote, wanting to push, wanting to be,

Speaker 1 they're like, screw that. And he was telling me about this real estate deal he had done.
And he was all hyped up about it. And he's like, like, Yeah, I got cut.
I'm like, that's what you wanted on.

Speaker 1 What do they want? They want you and Melissa going through a fucking divorce, which is the thing you do not want to deal with.

Speaker 4 Do you think reality TV breaks relationships?

Speaker 1 Kyle Cook says this best. I think it forces you to have really tough conversations with that person.
And if anything, the ones that stick together, I think are even that much stronger through it.

Speaker 1 Look at Heidi and Spencer,

Speaker 1 Kyle and Amanda still fighting strong. And then, you know, Ken and Lisa, Vanderpump, like there's couples who've laid it all out and and have been through multiple years of putting it all out there.

Speaker 1 It's really hard. I've seen Kyle and Amanda and I've tried to really support them.
But

Speaker 1 personally, between them, it's not easy. But I think it's hard.
I think Neil said fuck Kyle Cook a couple of times on this program.

Speaker 4 I think it was like, fuck stupid Kyle fucking stupid. Fuck.

Speaker 3 Obviously, he's your boy.

Speaker 1 He is my best friend.

Speaker 4 It was for a reason that was, it was an edited TV show.

Speaker 1 I've never met him. It was not personal.

Speaker 1 It wasn't i wasn't proud of kyle and how he you should never call a woman a bitch you should never really flip out of your wife to that degree now there's been a lot between them and i love them both but how you deliver frustration or communication with your wife really does matter and especially when you're on a show and you're screaming or yelling or swearing that's not good and i was not happy with him and trust me he's not happy with himself but i will say kyle is a really good person he knows when he does wrong he really genuinely feels sorry for it i think he really does care i don't think he's like a, at his core, he's not like a total assistant.

Speaker 1 We do. I am actually.

Speaker 4 No, we do preface, you know, we recap a ton of shows.

Speaker 4 We preface them all by saying, like, we don't know any of these people and we do reserve the right to be wrong about these people because we're talking about 45 minutes with commercials with all these other people that's edited by people who don't have necessarily your best interest in heart.

Speaker 4 Some of them are scenes. Some of them are bits.
Some of them are, you know, so it's like we acknowledge that and that I'm sure if I met Kyle, I would have a completely different.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, you'd, you'd love him.

Speaker 3 I don't know if you're allowed to answer this, but like, I couldn't help but wonder.

Speaker 1 I'll try. I'll well, it's not any story.

Speaker 3 It's not like a spoiler, but I'm honestly like sometimes there was a moment like last season where like Kyle and Amanda, I'm like, are they trolling us?

Speaker 3 Because like their online behavior with the whole Jesse Solomon stuff.

Speaker 3 That was and even if they were trolling us, I'm just like, as a guy who's just like happily married, maybe I'm just in my honeymoon phase and maybe they're seasoned vets as a married couple.

Speaker 3 But like, I would just not lean in to any narratives that had to do with any of us possibly having the hots or wanting to be fucked by someone else.

Speaker 3 And I was just a bit blown away by what either was them being serious or them like trolling.

Speaker 1 I think they're, I think that's the playfulness of their relationship.

Speaker 1 You know, they at times you'll be with them and they give you, they, they give each other a hard time or there's a lot of inside jokes, but I always, I don't pay it too much mind.

Speaker 1 Now, Jesse Salman was commenting on some of Amanda's pictures and stuff. And

Speaker 1 again, I think it was all out of fun and kind of being aware of.

Speaker 3 I love to have fun and I don't feel like I'm

Speaker 3 a jealous of a guy, but like, holy shit, Jesse Solomon.

Speaker 1 No, there was something funny. Me and Jesse were playing in a golf outing in the Hamptons in May, and it was a Loverboy thing that had sponsored.

Speaker 1 It was a charity event, and we donated Loverboy, and it was me and Jesse playing. And he took a selfie with like the tall Loverboy can and he was like, oh, what should I caption it?

Speaker 1 Should I caption it? Like, I love Amanda's cans. I was like, that's funny.
Like, not like thinking of it. And then he posted it.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. That's funny.
And it was like, yeah, that's kind of an aggressive caption. I love Jesse, but I think he's learning too a little bit there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, him and Wes definitely had a crash course.

Speaker 1 I love the boys. I mean, they're great additions.
It's good to have some more men or more guys in the mix.

Speaker 1 You know, I think Kyle, you know, we've had other guys like Andre or Luke who've been well-liked and beloved, but for the most part, it's been, I feel like it's been Kyle or I kind of taking turns in the hot seat.

Speaker 1 But now having Jesse and West here, not only do they bring a lot of fun and younger energy, but they also bring drama.

Speaker 3 Other things to talk about. I want to ask you more about them.
I want to bring you back to Lindsay for a second.

Speaker 3 Not just specifically Lindsay, but another thing I think just men struggle with, especially men in their 30s,

Speaker 3 and then especially if they approach Friday. I remember like when I got off the bachelor and

Speaker 3 I had a life and I had a real job and I had a condo in Chicago and I was all set and I decided to blow it all up and come to LA.

Speaker 3 And then there was like two years of like just me living on an air mattress at my, in a room in my buddy's house. And yeah, I was dating and I was out there.

Speaker 3 But it's just like, I think a lot of men in their like middle ages or adult life or 30s or whatever, like if they don't like feel settled in their career and they really know what they want to do, it is very difficult for them to like.

Speaker 3 really be present in other aspects in their life, specifically dating. I dated a lot, but I was never like, and I was like, yeah, I really want to meet someone.
And yeah, I really want to settle down.

Speaker 3 But the truth was, I was like, until I'm like not sleeping on this air mattress, I'm not getting in a relationship with anyone type of thing until I know what I'm fucking doing.

Speaker 3 And I don't think there's usually a lot of acknowledgement around that because I think, you know, we watch these shows. Like, I remember being more like Team Lindsay when she was being hard on you.

Speaker 3 And like, you know, I was sitting in a position of like, I've, you know, I'm at a point in my life where I've figured it out. And I was probably judging you and criticizing you a little too much.

Speaker 3 But like, you know, because there was this, you know, part of your and Lindsay's relationship was like lindsay like being the supportive fiancé which was kind of like figure it the fuck out carl and then there were times where it felt like you were being portrayed as like this person who was just like just wanted support from his girlfriend but wasn't willing to do anything and every once in a while you would bring up like hey i want to start a t-shirt company i don't know i don't know if that was one of them no that's good though um but like i guess what is the truth you know does that resonate with you at all and again what was the truth in terms of your dynamic and versus like how you've been portrayed as this kind of like this more like dreamer, you know, kind of guy in business where like Lindsay's like, I just need a man who has a real job and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 And like, and kind of that dynamic? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think most men's ego is directly attached to like their occupation or their employment or their career.

Speaker 1 And I was at a interesting kind of not crossroads, but I had been working with Kyle and Amanda on the Loverboy company for about four years.

Speaker 1 But Lindsay was also kind of saying and helping me understand, like, this isn't probably your end all be all, right, Carl? Like, isn't there something more you want to do?

Speaker 1 And yes, there are more things I wanted to do. But I did struggle to, this isn't her fault at all.
Like, I was trying to really figure out like, what makes sense for me.

Speaker 1 Like, should I go start another non-alcoholic drink product? No, that doesn't make sense. Should I go do like, it took some time to figure that out, but I, I mean this.

Speaker 1 Like I, for the first time in my life, I had the ability and opportunity to not do anything and figure out what I wanted to to do.

Speaker 1 Up until season three or four of the show, I worked full-time jobs and had to like generate other income. In early seasons of the show, we weren't getting influencer stuff.
It wasn't like that then.

Speaker 1 So, like, I had to find jobs to just pay my bills and to get in, like, you know, just do what I needed to do. But then finally, here I am in a relationship, and she was supportive.

Speaker 1 But I thought, okay, I can take some time and figure this out. And I thought I had that latitude.

Speaker 1 But I also think Lindsay absolutely needs a more established guy who is well further along and kind of his level. I mean, I basically got sober in 2021 and I got engaged in 2022.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, it was like a quick turn of events. I, like I said, I'm not, I need to take responsibility and accountability.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm the one who asked her to marry me and I'm the one who pursued that and pushed for that. She, you know, met me in the middle, but I should have been a lot more like, okay,

Speaker 1 where am I at with my career? Do I need some more time to really get back to baseline with myself? I didn't do that because honestly, I look around. A lot of my friends are married.

Speaker 1 A lot of my friends have kids. Since my brother had passed, like, I've looked at my niece and I see her and I see my brother and her.
And I want to have children, I want to have a family.

Speaker 1 And I think some of that might have been clouded by that.

Speaker 1 I also think when you first get sober, you're so dead set on trying to prove everybody that you got it all figured out and you're good and you're back to normal and probably rushed into a relationship that validated those things, you know.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I wish I had maybe a little more just paused because, yeah, like I kind of felt like I had it all ready to go and figured out, oh, yeah, I got a job, I got this. No, I didn't.
And guess what?

Speaker 1 I'm still, I finally launched a new company this past year, but we're still like getting it up and running. And I haven't generated income from it yet.

Speaker 1 So, if Lindsay and I had still gotten married, I mean, my career stuff would still be kind of in this

Speaker 1 interesting position, which probably would have lended itself to a lot more challenges, too.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, like, listen, the more you talk about you and Lindsay, the more it's just like you guys had a good thing.

Speaker 3 You will be, you, you played a big part in each other's lives for a period of time but like i mean honestly like not that lindsay like owes you i'm i'm sure you i'm sure you both have things to apologize for each other but like for all of the drama that was you ending that engagement i got to assume lindsay like is grateful i mean she said that at reunion yeah i think and i've I can feel that from her.

Speaker 1 I mean, there were some moments we had that you'll see on the new season. We had some conflict.
It'll probably be good TV, but it was almost like we needed to have that.

Speaker 1 And I, you know, I still get a lot of therapy. My therapist before the summer started, I was telling her, you know, I'm nervous about filming.
I'm nervous about being there with, she's pregnant.

Speaker 1 I was happy. I legitimately was happy for her, but I was like, it's a lot to take in.
Kind of weird. A little bit.
And she still has the car that we bought together, but she now has ownership of it.

Speaker 1 And I pull up to the house and the car I used to take to the dealership to get the tires changed and oil changed. There it is.
It was mentally interesting. But my therapist challenged me.

Speaker 1 She's like, Carl, this is a chance for you to get real closure and real healing because you're going to see her and you're actually going to have to face her.

Speaker 1 But if you didn't see her or didn't face her, you probably would have built up more anxiety and resentment in your head.

Speaker 1 But it allowed me, and I didn't know at the time, but like, like, I want her happy. Like, I really care about Lindsay.
I really do. Like, I know Lindsay.

Speaker 1 and I've known her and I see the girl, the little girl inside that I want to flourish and be happy. And I saw that little girl a little bit this summer where she was smiling and really happy.

Speaker 1 It wasn't that negative toxicity that you guys saw the previous year.

Speaker 4 Honestly, for me, you and Lindsay feels like such a lifetime ago. I feel like that season was forever ago.

Speaker 4 And now, obviously, knowing that she has carried a baby, given birth to a baby, has a newborn, I know what just the like longevity of what that feels like. How did you find out she was pregnant?

Speaker 4 Did you find out like on social media?

Speaker 1 Through the social media world, really.

Speaker 1 I mean, there was rumors popping all over the the place yeah um but i had heard all you know through the whatever it is what was your

Speaker 1 i mean i'm sure you're gonna get you knew she had a boyfriend first right i knew she was seeing someone or had you know i think shortly after we broke up i mean she was from what i understand was dating the country music singer that was gonna sing at our wedding uh or had been pursuing him who was that uh Dustin Lynch.

Speaker 1 Okay, was that Dustin Lynch? Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 Dustin Adam.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that, again, he was, we spoke to his team. He was booked originally to sing at the wedding.

Speaker 1 And then I guess after the breakup, she did pursue that. Whatever.

Speaker 1 Okay, you know. But yeah, I was picking up on different things of her life, whether it was through the media or through Kyle.

Speaker 4 When it was confirmed, she was pregnant, having a baby girl. I mean, what was your first reaction?

Speaker 1 I know it'll be, I'm happy for her and this

Speaker 1 genuinely.

Speaker 1 Genuinely, it was like, wow. Like, that's, it was like not a shock, but it was a shock.

Speaker 1 Um, another thing in my head, I honestly thought like it was something she's always wanted. And I was right, not right there with her, but she had a miscarriage.

Speaker 1 And we all were like trying to rally around her. And I felt terrible about what had happened.
And I tried to be a supportive friend during all that.

Speaker 1 And I knew how much she really had dreamed of wanting to be a mother. So I was absolutely so happy.
I think what really hit me was like, damn, that was fast.

Speaker 1 Like, let's be honest, like, that felt, I was like,

Speaker 1 I hadn't even had sex with anybody since her. And I'm like, she's already pregnant.

Speaker 1 So I thought in my head, what was I was thinking, but called a good friend of mine and he said to me, he's like, dude, you couldn't have asked for better closure.

Speaker 1 Like, you literally can't ask for better closure.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Short of, short of your ego popping in, like your ex moving on is

Speaker 3 the best possible.

Speaker 1 He's like, take it and just embrace it, be happy for her. And now you can move on.

Speaker 1 You don't have to worry because it's not your issue anymore.

Speaker 4 Have you met the baby? Have you seen the baby?

Speaker 1 I have just through social media social media and her partner so i went to a wedding in portugal in april for mutual friends of ours kyle and amanda were also there um so he was there i didn't interact with him um the show was airing at the same time so imagine like you're at a wedding in person and then at 9 p.m at night the show is airing and we're still together yeah that is

Speaker 1 always those kinds of dynamics that are very asking for a softer lindsay and she's calling you cocaine carl and i'm at the wedding right in in front of her. And she's with another guy and all that.

Speaker 1 But I've never met him personally, but Kyle has said to me a few times, he's like a really nice guy and treats her well. And that's all that matters.
But yeah, I don't have any other experience.

Speaker 1 She was also at a second wedding in June. Andrea from Summerhouse, who's a dear friend, got married in Italy and Lindsay was there.

Speaker 1 But he was not there. She was just there by herself.
But we didn't interact. It was very, we rode a shuttle bus together, which I know Danielle was like.

Speaker 3 So you guys are civil, but like

Speaker 1 your exes. It's like two co-workers who,

Speaker 1 you know, don't like each other, but they're here for the better, the greater good of the business.

Speaker 3 I respect that, and I really, it always pisses me off when people are just like, why can't you be friends? It's like, respect what you had.

Speaker 3 If you had respect for what you had, it shouldn't be easy to be friends or pretend that you didn't.

Speaker 3 have an engagement or like you guys were the biggest part of each other's lives and like it didn't work out and you could be cordial and have respect and wish the other person well and be happy for them, but you're not fucking friends.

Speaker 3 And stop pretending that you guys can be fucking cool together because that's disrespectful to what you had.

Speaker 1 It's, yeah, well, I think the first moment I walked in, and again, I don't want to give away too much of the new season, but from the jump, I mean, you know, I arrive at the house and I, you know, she's celebrating her pregnancy, which is great again.

Speaker 1 But I really, it took me a moment to really figure out how to deliver what I wanted to say because there's just a lot to take in.

Speaker 1 But I did, you know, I told her I'm happy for you.

Speaker 1 you and very classic lindsay she made a comment to be almost like drawing back something she said on camera from a previous scene from a previous season which was us the previous summer i'm playing basketball in the west village and she comes to the park to meet me and she's basically her and i talking about the wedding and she's like oh maybe i'll be pregnant by next summer so now fast forward you'll see it on and i'm giving away too much bravo is going to kill me right now but i hope that's not too much because i hope you guys have a lot there's a lot of great stuff But just like the whole thing, that's too much.

Speaker 1 Bravo's got a bigger problem.

Speaker 1 I try to play by the rules, but I basically was like, Congrats, I'm happy for you. And then she was like, Yeah, I told you.
I told you I'd be pregnant.

Speaker 1 I literally looked at her like, Yeah, you did too. All right.
Good stuff.

Speaker 1 Paige and Craig.

Speaker 1 Team Paige. I love Paige.
Always will be. I like to be teams.
No, I'm just, I don't. I'm fucking with you.

Speaker 1 I'm a Paige guy. I actually kind of, it's been interesting to kind of see everything unfold in the media as it did.

Speaker 1 I mean, I give her props for the way she handled doing it on Giggly Squad, and there's no easy way to, to do any of that.

Speaker 1 And in the public, I texted her the day I learned and I said, like, I give you, you know, a lot of credit for just stepping up and doing that.

Speaker 1 And I said, if there's paparazzi outside your door, then fuck them.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we, we definitely live in a time where, you know, maybe it's social media, the all scandals, but like when people break up, everyone, like, it's who's the villain, who's the hero, who are we going to burn?

Speaker 1 Like, sometimes you just like, you have a right to fall out of love.

Speaker 3 You have a right to be like, you're good, we're good, but I think there's something better for me and you, honestly, but that's for you to decide. Yep.
Whatever.

Speaker 1 I feel for Craig, but like, you know, if Page doesn't want to be with him, she doesn't want to be with him. And that's fine.
And it's her right.

Speaker 3 He also has the right to be sad.

Speaker 1 you know and and he has the right to speak his truth too but totally i i was gonna say that i think um like it's such a difficult thing to break up, like, I don't know, like in that manner.

Speaker 1 Like, she's on a podcast. She's telling, and I get he wants to share his side.

Speaker 3 We're here for you, Craig.

Speaker 1 But all I know is this. I think,

Speaker 1 I mean, I give him a lot of credit for going for it.

Speaker 1 I did worry that the distance and where they were career-wise was maybe not in line. Craig was ready to settle down, but Paige is young.
How old'Craig? How old's Paige? Craig's like 35.

Speaker 1 I think Paige is 32 or 36. Paige is three or four years younger than Craig.
But I was going to say that the team thing, like people are asking me, like, am I team Craig or Paige?

Speaker 1 And what I say is there's no team here. You know, I feel equally sorry for both of them, but I will say I'm closer to Paige and have been friends with Paige more than I've been with Craig.

Speaker 1 I've had my personal opinions about him, just as I've always had.

Speaker 3 But are there any criticisms?

Speaker 1 No, I think, well, what's interesting is how. you know this past summer we filmed with craig in the hamptons and i saw him loading the fridge with non-alcoholic beer and i was like pumped pumped.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh, dude, NA beers. He's like, yeah, I'm not drinking.
I was like, hell yeah, man. Let's have some fun.

Speaker 1 But almost what I uncovered, it was like, you know, his behavior at a period of time was not great at all. That Paige was like, I can't be with you if you're going to be like this.

Speaker 1 You know, and I know she dealt with a lot of his ups and downs and challenges through that. And I feel like that got kind of lost in the shuffle.
Like it was Paige was hard on Craig and mean to him.

Speaker 1 And it's like, No, Paige was actually very gracious and I think helped Craig become a better version of himself.

Speaker 1 And almost the version you're seeing on this season of Southern Charm, which is like the business Craig and he's like serious and focused and like, oh, yeah. That's good.
That's cool to see.

Speaker 1 I worry it's a little too

Speaker 3 wholly as a fan. And I don't like, I've,

Speaker 3 I guess I know Paige a little bit better. She's been, she, she was on Reality Recap once and talked some pop culture and reality TV with us and she was lovely.

Speaker 3 I met Craig for five seconds at an event. He seemed really nice.
As a viewer, it absolutely seems like Paige, in a lot of ways, has rubbed off on Craig.

Speaker 3 Because, as a viewer of like Southern Charm, you know, I started watching it halfway through, and it's just like the three fuckboys of the South, like just ripping beards and golfing, and just like doing whatever the fuck and just getting away with whatever because they're 6'3 and good looking, and they just kind of know everyone.

Speaker 3 And they're like the biggest fish in a small pond.

Speaker 3 And then, like, again, this season, like the only storyline we have so far, is like Austin, like hanging on to this lifestyle where Craig has decided to grow up.

Speaker 3 And then you had Paige call Craig and been like, honestly, really sound business advice.

Speaker 1 It was like, you know, I honestly was like, yeah, for Paige, that was really good advice.

Speaker 3 And it's to Craig's credit, I think he, you know, he's, I'm sure he's seen Paige's. you know, explosion, her success, her dedication to her career.
It's all paying off.

Speaker 3 I'm sure I give Craig a lot of credit where he never acted like, you know, it emasculated him or bothered by it, but instead almost tried to be like, all right, well teach a man to fish like how do i how do i do that but yeah it's in you know i think we're just sad because we loved him as a couple and and now it's like he she broke up with him so now she's immediately how is she the bad guy and then like i don't know even paige

Speaker 4 had a little moment season three right we did

Speaker 1 oh shit we started should we start rumors

Speaker 1 um we had a i walked in that season was single and i knew we were having someone new in the house and i obviously she is my like physical type. Like that's a girl I dated.

Speaker 3 But if you're really single and they're like, there's a new girl coming in your house, immediately you're like, all right.

Speaker 1 But she was one that like, oh my, like, she was very attractive and had a cool personality and just something about her.

Speaker 1 But that summer, I mean, I was total fuckboy mode, was saying one thing and doing the other.

Speaker 1 But I will say, like, what's funny, and I, Paige and I can joke about this, but the whole narrative of that season was that I didn't text her during the week.

Speaker 1 I took her to Cindy Lauper at Madison Square Garden on a Tuesday night during the week. She was there with me and Lindsay and Everett were together at that time.

Speaker 1 The four of us during the week were at a concert. Paige knows this.

Speaker 1 Now, yes, I didn't always communicate during the week, but I did take her out during the week. It was clear early on that we were probably just better being friends.

Speaker 1 I also, I just thought she was really hot and was enjoying this, like the fun flirty thing. We'd go into the pantry.
We would honestly eat snacks and make out.

Speaker 1 And like the pantry became a bigger thing than we even realized.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I mean, I love, I don't think Paige would ever go for me or vice versa anymore, but I, I'm just a huge supporter and I love, she's been really kind and generous to me over the last year and a half.

Speaker 1 Even in the breakup, she's been supportive of Lindsay. She's been supportive of me, but just like the friendship I feel like I have with her feels really solid.

Speaker 1 Like I can, I trust her and like she gives me good advice. She's had an amazing explosion with her career, which has been amazing to see.

Speaker 1 I remember when she first came on the show, she had like 3,000 followers. Yeah.
And, you know, and was a younger girl, and she's fully blossomed. So

Speaker 1 I'm happy for her. And I'm actually looking forward to seeing what she does now with a little less, just it's, it's on her own.
She's paid.

Speaker 3 But what about your love life? Are you still very much in the

Speaker 3 let's focus on me, let's focus on my career, sobriety, all those things?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think that off the table. Are we billing into love?

Speaker 1 So this summer I started to put myself out there. Okay.
It took me a little while to unwind just the feelings of all of the past relationship.

Speaker 1 I didn't, you know, it was mentioned on the trailer, but I didn't hook up with anyone really until the summer and the last person I did hook up with was Lindsay. Just wasn't mentally there.

Speaker 1 And I needed some time to kind of get myself confident back. So I had some fun over the summer.
I dated a little bit. You're back looking.

Speaker 1 But I realized I am. I'm back looking, but I met someone at the end of the summer.
We dated this fall a little bit.

Speaker 1 We've been seeing each other recently, but I'm, I think think to you, the answer, you put it in my, the words of my mouth, but I think I still need to get right back to like, I've got a lot going on.

Speaker 1 And I'll tell you what, these next three months when the show is airing, dating is not easy while you're watching yourself in the past summer flirting with other girls. And I'm very single.

Speaker 4 I'm not doing anything that crazy, but whereas some of that flirting with the new girl, Lexi?

Speaker 1 So, no. The moment I walked in the house, she had already been flirting with me.

Speaker 1 Okay. Which you'll have to see.

Speaker 3 Team West or Team Sierra? I don't know if you know where I stand, but I'm in the minority.

Speaker 1 I'm going to go Team Sierra, even though I like West. But Sierra and I do have a friendship.
And I think as I learned about some of the nuance with that, I was disappointed in how West handled that.

Speaker 1 And you'll see even in the new season, there was other shit that happened after.

Speaker 1 So you can tell me. Again, back to the media stuff.
Interviews, podcasts, it... that bubbled up again because gotcha

Speaker 3 said i'm not saying west we did have west on i don't think west pitched a perfect game and i'm not i don't think i think he could have been more tactful and apologized

Speaker 1 it's hard man i think as a as a younger guy when you get in those positions sometimes it takes it took me a while to realize like like you up you actually have to say you're wrong in this everybody watched it it's really hard i think over time he'll get to a place where you'll get more of a reflective west i think he was completely caught off guard because he walked in that reunion and i was like dude you know what we're about to do today right He just was not.

Speaker 1 I don't get any idea. He was not on his day game.

Speaker 1 But he recovered. He had a good summer, I think.

Speaker 3 I think he's living his best life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he seems to be doing okay. Yeah.
He's flourishing. What else have we covered? This has been great.
It's been really, man.

Speaker 3 I really, really appreciate you taking the time and opening up with us.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 3 So, what can we expect without giving anything away? Yes.

Speaker 3 I want to say this is a bit of like a challenge that mature shows have with ensemble casts that have come up together, been through the trenches.

Speaker 3 I mean, you guys have been through life-changing experiences, like

Speaker 3 life and death. And it gets to the point where like

Speaker 3 you just don't have it in you anymore to really like shake it up. And I will, for all the like, fuck Kyle Cook, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, say what you want about like whether he should be calling anyone a bitch or not. But like, Kyle Cook's still showing up for work and making TV.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I think Southern Charm has experienced a little bit of this fatigue right now where it's just like, if I need to get most of my entertainment from the friends of and all like the sidekicks that are bringing in because like the main characters are just like decided not to like, you know, be traumatic.

Speaker 3 Sure. You know, it's time to maybe like retire.

Speaker 1 Move things on.

Speaker 3 And I'm just like, I would love to know because we love summer hunting. Yeah, you don't want it.

Speaker 1 You don't want it to be like the... I'm trying to think of an athlete's example, you know, like Brett Farr playing for the New York Jets.
Yeah. It's just like, dude, you were a Packer.

Speaker 1 You had a great career. That was awesome.
Let's keep you in the Packer bubble.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So, yeah, what can we come to expect? I mean, Jesse and West were two excellent additions.
Great additions.

Speaker 3 What can you say about any of your new cast members? And what can you tease in terms of our excitement going into this season?

Speaker 1 It is a totally different season than last, but I believe a better season of Summerhouse than last season. Because

Speaker 1 to your point, you have like this from the reunion, it continues like the next day after the reunion there's shit that happened west did an interview and that caused more stuff so this new season picks up literally from the end of the reunion from my understanding and there's a lot that happened from that little i'm not gonna have all this here at fans like coming for me and be like and this is why you were me wrong okay

Speaker 1 um but this season you have new new romance with people that you you want to root for.

Speaker 1 And I think it's, I was rooting for it, but also going, I want to see how this is going to play out you have the young love that didn't work out west and sierra still like navigating are they friends are they not is west going to date is sierra gonna date how are they going to handle that and then of course you have kyle and amanda and just their dynamic but there's a new guy who i i like him as a friend and he brought he just he was himself and he single he's a good looking dude he flirted a lot he met a lot of girls and that created a lot of new things that i think we needed in our show which is back in the day of Summerhouse, people used to like guys used to bring girls back and like the last few years, it's gotten like very coupley or PG, let's say.

Speaker 1 And I'm actually, I was like, honestly, like there was a threesome. Okay.
Kyle already said this, but it wasn't me and it wasn't Kyle involved. But always Justin West.
I can't say.

Speaker 1 But there was a threesome for the first time in Summerhouse history.

Speaker 3 Two dudes or two girls.

Speaker 1 You'll have to watch it. Two dudes.
It's two dudes. You'll have to watch two dudes.

Speaker 4 Wait, and all of them are in the house or it was like a pickup from a bar?

Speaker 1 It was two dudes. Pick up from the house.

Speaker 4 Pick up from the house.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there was some, we had some amazing house parties. But yeah, I mean, even for me too, like, I'll just self-shout out.
You know, I'm launching a new business, softbar, promotional.

Speaker 1 Which is my cafe and bar that I'm opening in Brooklyn. But you'll see the beginnings of that, which it's exciting for me.

Speaker 1 just another layer of my professional career because I know in the last few years I've kind of been known as this jobless loser or this guy who can't figure it out.

Speaker 1 And we were talking earlier like your ego is attached to kind of your occupation or how you're doing your career so it's exciting for me because i feel like i'm really doing what i'm passionate about feels like it's exactly where i'm supposed to be and it looks i i'm really proud of what we did we threw a big friends and family event that you'll see softbar on camera and you'll meet my team i have a co-founder who's 10 years older than me successful entrepreneur i have women employees like i have a whole crew like it's like a real so there's more i think meat on the bone than people are it's not it's not all about lover boy it's like another thing and awesome Well, as someone who settled down later in life and had different ups and downs and someone who always, you know, wanted to settle down and have kids, but didn't for a while,

Speaker 3 one, I'll say, figure out your shit, man.

Speaker 3 Cause like, until you do, like, once you get it, you know, like, just feel conf feel good about what you're, whatever it is, whatever you feel good about doing,

Speaker 3 whether you are teaching first grade or you're working on Wall Street, but like, if you feel good about what you're doing and you feel prideful of it, like, I think it makes all the difference, especially in like men's lives in terms of being just better friends and better partners.

Speaker 3 If you've ever desired to be a dad as someone who's like lucky enough to have been one, like nothing has given me more purpose.

Speaker 3 in life and never like it really just it it it motivates you it really makes you like it i think it makes you more badass in terms of like more more like how do i want to frame like you know you don't want to mess with an ambitious father type of thing you got dad's strength now yeah it's a real thing

Speaker 1 so yeah like no I think you're it's great to hear you like you're you're you're like it sounds like you're really on a path of doing what you want and doing what makes you happy trying I think all this seems to be falling into place and I'm lucky that I I've been given a lot of I've been given a lot of chances and I've had a lot of support I've been very lucky so you know if I just turned 40 and I've got another kind of shot to like recreate what I want to do with my life, then I'm not a lot of people get a chance to do that.

Speaker 1 Now, yeah, I'm not as far along as I'd hoped I'd be at this point, but I don't think, you know, my guy friends that have two kids would trade for my spot and vice versa.

Speaker 1 But, you know, there's goals I still have. And I think just trying to set myself up to go get them.
But I would like to meet someone.

Speaker 1 But I think I'm realizing more than ever that I got to just stay focused on these, on my career and what I'm building. And like that thing will, I think.

Speaker 3 Your friends who want to trade spots with you, when did they start having kids? I'm curious.

Speaker 1 Like in their mid-20s.

Speaker 3 Okay. Yeah.
And I will say one benefit to like, if you're lucky enough to meet someone and have have kids,

Speaker 1 you won't.

Speaker 3 You're going to be very happy with wherever you are. Like clearly have had fun, lived a fun life, been very selfish at times, like done, done your thing.
And like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 I've never been a huge partier, but like I've had plenty of fun. Like the last, I am not reminiscing about like, oh, I wish I was out at the

Speaker 3 Friday night and where are my friends at? Like, ah, nah.

Speaker 1 Don't miss it.

Speaker 3 Like, that, that is one benefit of like waiting till you're ready.

Speaker 3 And whether, whether you're, you waited because you're ready or you waited because it wasn't the right time for you or whoever your person is,

Speaker 3 that's been a nice benefit.

Speaker 1 No, it's, I, I'm, I thought I'd be married at this point.

Speaker 1 It's okay that I'm not, but um, you know, I think just feel really lucky that I get a chance to like kind of restart and do the things I really wanted to.

Speaker 3 How do you feel about turning 40?

Speaker 1 I was nervous at first, and then someone asked me, which I, I think I made my Instagram caption, which is how old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? And I was like, I like that.

Speaker 1 And I, I'd say I'm like 25 years old. I don't look 40, I don't think.

Speaker 1 No, you don't. So I'm happy with that.
But I was born in 1985. I didn't have a cell phone until I was a senior in high school.
Don't even talk to me.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you're a baby compared to Nick.

Speaker 1 Am I?

Speaker 3 I was born in 80.

Speaker 1 You look good, man. Look really good.

Speaker 3 I've been off sugar, man.

Speaker 1 Water plants.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I moisturize.

Speaker 3 Carl, thank you so much, man. Anything else you want to promote, put out there?

Speaker 4 When does it open in Brooklyn?

Speaker 1 So Softbar will be open in June. Okay.
You'll see a little bit of it on the new season. Our location's in Green Point, Brooklyn.
We've got a really cool industrial space, but it's a bar and a cafe.

Speaker 1 Come as you are. It's not a sober bar.
We just don't serve alcohol.

Speaker 3 So B-Y-O-B.

Speaker 1 You can, well, we're hopefully only, no, we're not allowing any alcohol, but we serve amazing drinks that you can show up hammered. You could show up hammered.

Speaker 1 We'll serve you something that tastes great. Okay.
But no, but no alcohol. But yeah, I just also, I'll leave you with this.
I just hit four years. No alcohol, no cocaine, no prescription drugs.

Speaker 1 The only thing I've used is THC, which I've been very open about. But that for me has really helped my anxiety and depression say less.
Congratulations. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you very, very much for taking that.

Speaker 1 No, thank you guys for having me. And congrats on all your successes.
Thank you. Your beautiful family you guys have.

Speaker 3 Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 1 And your audience. Appreciate you guys keeping me in check.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's good stuff. I'm glad that I had some anxiety about coming here because of.

Speaker 3 Yeah, how did it feel? Is this better than you hoped for?

Speaker 1 It always is better than what you think it is. And stepping through the door is better than nothing.
You know, sometimes, yeah, I don't think we're hard on people.

Speaker 3 This is great. But I I feel like we just asked like good questions.

Speaker 1 I mean, you asked me some really, really good questions that I'm going to be thinking about for the next two weeks. People are going to love you for this.
How I could have answered it differently.

Speaker 1 Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 1 Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Happy birthday, dear Carl.

Speaker 1 Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 1 Yay!

Speaker 4 40

Speaker 3 and thriving.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Really appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

Speaker 3 So we did get you a cake.

Speaker 1 Thank you, birthday. We did get him a cake.