E913 - My Twin Sister's Affair

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That's helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-wide helixsleep.com slash viall. How's it going? Hey, my name is Bryce.
I'm 27 years old and i need some help i caught my girlfriend cheating at me at a baseball game that was on national television whoa dude this is like uh right first of all i'm sorry that's that sucks so like where are we do you have the footage i do unfortunately yeah so it's it's crazy um i don't know where you want me to start but this isn't like uh you know we were dating for a couple weeks and she went out and did that no we were dating for three and a half years and uh had several conversations about like getting engaged and stuff like that yeah and uh met it just totally out of left field happened, is ironic me saying that but uh pun intended yeah caught her on tv my uh my little brother actually caught her and the way it happened was just nuts i mean where i'm from like baseball's big yeah uh and so for them you know for her and this other guy to go and do that they they were very aware of the possibility of getting caught. And, uh, yeah, my little brother caught it and he called me and I immediately turned it on, rewind it and saw it.
And it was just, I mean, in shock. I don't really know.
I'm sorry. That fucking sucks, dude.
And like, were they like kiss camming and are like being affectionate or are they like, she was like with the guy. Very, very affectionate.
And she's so damn stupid like you know his arm was around her she's holding his hand and you could just see how awkward it was for her no i mean i don't know if she knew she was on tv she was definitely on like the jumbotron okay but uh i don't think she knew she was on tv until my siblings decided to send her a message so she knows she's got caught we know that now oh she. Oh, she, she, yeah, she knows.
Okay. All right.
And what has she said? So man, I took a different route than probably most people would took. I never reached out to her.
Once it happened, that was it. It's been almost a month now.
I have not reached out to her one time. I blocked her on everything.
Okay. I removed all my social media, just go off the radar for a little bit, kind of recoup myself.
Do you, you you have this foot like do you have it on your phone yeah can you send it to justin i am curious i just want to see it we won't we won't use it uh we obviously want to protect people's identity yeah man the whole thing has just been uh i don't even know just probably i mean definitely the craziest thing that i've ever had to deal with in my life yeah that sucks man especially when you're you're three and a half years in apart from like money invested and time and stuff just you know i was getting to that point where i was ready to like actually figure out my life settle down get married have a family and all that and hoes gonna be hoes at the end of the day i guess uh you're just hurting man right now that's all yeah no yeah how old is she she is 20 about to be 25 okay you're 27 yes okay back to like how you handled it so like you know you haven't talked to her in a month you blocked her on everything you just kind of i'm guessing you're just like your little brother told you you saw it moment of shock you hurt whatever and you're just like fuck this i'm done i out. I have my answer kind of thing.
But you also called in and you're like, hey, how do I handle my girlfriend cheating on me? So in your mind, is she your girlfriend today? No. So this is the backstory on it.
Okay. So we dated three and a half years.
And this past May, so May 2024, we took a break and it was a literal break.

She said that I was very complacent in the relationship.

I wasn't putting a lot of effort in.

And I, you know, I was like, okay, you're right.

I do love you.

Like, I've definitely kind of been lazy here and there.

So let me get my shit together.

I was still living with my parents, you know, whatever.

You know, I was just trying to save money to where I could buy a house and stuff.

And so, you know, when she broke up with me, I was like, you know, she's right. reality call.
That's all it is. So over the next 30 days of that breakup, we stayed in contact the whole time, which was weird.
But I started figuring out what I wanted to do. I mean, I have a great job, great family.
The only thing I was lacking was a place to be on my own. So I went out and started looking at houses.
I ended up buying a house in September. By this point, we were back together.
So we were back together. Things were going great.
I asked her to move in with me around Thanksgiving. She refused to move in with me, didn't provide me any reason other than that she didn't have the money to help out.
And I told her, you don't have to help out. I got everything.
You don't have to worry about it. And so she's still like, you know, I, I just don't think that we should do that.
And so I'm just like, all right, well, whatever, you know, I'll try again in a few months. And so a few months go by and I guess we're, this was probably a month ago.
Exact. I brought it up again and she was still the same way.
Like, I just don't think we should do that right now. It's still early in our relationship.
And I'm like, you know, it's been three and a half years. We either have an idea of where we're going or we don't.
You know, like, we're kind of too far along at this point. And so this was like, you know, this was a Saturday night.
She came to my house. We spent the whole night together, a dinner, date, everything.
Fantastic evening. The next morning we wake up and she breaks up with me.
And so, again, again, this is like the first part of me being shell shocked. I didn't understand where it was coming from.
I asked what was going on and she said that we weren't getting along well. And I knew something in the back of my mind told me that something was going on that I just wasn't aware about, but I trusted her with everything in my life.
I mean, I've never never trusted anyone even family like i trusted her yeah and so i just knew in my guts something something was

wrong and uh while she was at my house breaking up with me i asked her i said are you cheating on me

and she she lost her shit on me and was like i can't believe you'd say that and i even apologized

for saying it because i was like that you know you would never do that you would never do that

and so she was like look this isn't like a real breakup like we need to take a break again we

it You'd say that. And I even apologize for saying it.
Cause I was like that, you know, you would never do that. You would never do that.
And so she was like, look, this isn't like a real breakup. Like we need to take a break again.
We need to figure things out. We're not communicating well.
So let's spend some time apart. I still like, we still need to talk.
We still need to, we can see each other, but we're not going to have the title of dating. So I'm like, okay, like whatever, whatever you say, you know, whatever.
So the next day comes and I called her and I was like, I don't think we should do this at all. Like, look, you say you love me.
I love you. You know, we've been through so much together.
Like, let's just sit down and talk and figure this out. And she said, no, I don't, you know, I don't think that's a good idea.
We can't ever talk about it on our own. And I said, well, then why don't we go sit with like a couples therapist and, you know, figure this out.

That's someone who doesn't know us.

They can hear both of our sides of the stories or whatever we have to say, and they can help form an unbiased opinion on it. She said that it was too early in our relationship to do that.
But then I was like, okay, well, why don't we start going to church and actually build a foundation on God? I mean, that's our religion, Christianity. She said she doesn't trust priests or pastors.
So I'm like, well, fuck, you're giving me absolutely nothing here. I can't talk with you.
We can't go sit with someone and we can't build a foundation. So I told her, I said, this is really simple.
Either I'm going to give you a legitimate breakup, meaning no texting, no talking, no seeing each other. You're not going to know where I'm at.
You're not going to know what I'm doing. Or we sit down and figure this out.
And she couldn't decide. So I said, I'm going to decide for you then.
And so I told her, I said, whenever you decide what you want to do, you let me know and just send me a text saying I'm ready to talk. That's it.
She bawled her eyes out crying. She didn't want it to be this way, blah, blah, blah.
And so over those next few days, she resorted to texting my mom, asking my mom, is he okay? Where is he at? Is he at work? Is he at home? texting my mom asking my mom is is is he okay where is he at uh is he at work is he at home and my mom was like all right this is a this is becoming a problem now that she's bringing me into it and we're adults right i mean sure you know i'm sure on some level though her reaching out to your mom felt a little good because it was like she you know she still had me still had me on the chain, chain i guess you could say and so it was thursday she calls me and i answered it she had she had been texting me all week telling me i love you so much i hope you're okay are you all right blah blah blah blah and i just i didn't answer i told her loud and clear you let me know when you're ready to talk yeah and so it was this thursday and um she she called me at like midnight asking how i was and you know she was rambling on about something totally irrelevant and i was like look let's cut the bullshit like what are we doing here like i'm you know i'm 27 i'm trying to figure this out like i don't want to be playing games wasting time like what's going on and her response to me was i saw on facebook that this is how childish this sounds. I saw on Facebook that your following count went up.
Are you adding girls on Facebook? And I'm like, no. I add people I work with.
I know people. I'm adding people.
It's also Facebook. I don't know if girls are.
Right. I mean, seriously.
Seriously. And I and i'm like no like so she says were any of the people you added like females and i was like yeah well i mean one of them was i went to school with her no big deal i never had a relationship with her don't desire to have any relationship with her i'm still trying to figure out our relationship that's what matters to me and so she was like okay well if you're gonna go ahead and add other people don't be mad when i start talking to other guys and i'm like hold on what like that's not even remotely the same so she went on to basically tell me that she had texting or snapchatting whatever it was with some guy and i told her i was like look that's it for me like i'm not i'm not playing i'm not playing these I love you, but you, your head's just not in the right, right space.
And I basically just wished her well and hung up on her and she blew my phone up all night. And I finally answered it.
Cause I was trying, I mean, I was trying to get sleep and she was like, that's not what I meant. Like I was just talking to a guy that I'm friends with about the whole situation.
I'm like, okay. So I forgave her again.
I'm like, all right, whatever. Let me know when you're ready to actually talk.
And so she hung up that night, sent me a text saying, I love you so much. You're my best friend ever.
Sent my mom a text saying, just want you to know how much I love. I love your son and how much your family means to me.
And once we figure out this time apart, once we get back together things are going to be great and then 48 hours later was caught on tv with this guy i got you okay uh so we have the video now i'll play it and then we'll cut it out full hd hd bro yeah um that sucks man that must that must have fucking ripped your heart out and so okay so then you found her a couple days later days later and then you've blocked her ever since. You haven't really spoken to her since? I have not talked to her since that night.
I was on the phone with her that Thursday night. Now that you're calling in and now I understand the story and the context, what are you as of today trying to figure out what can I help you wrestle with? Because to be honest, your instincts seem to be pretty good, right? Like, you know, giving, considering your situation and what you're going through and, you know, like you're making generally decent choices, you know, like I've seen people make worse choices.
I've made worse choices in similar situations. But you're, you're, you're able to trust your instincts and your gut pretty well, given, given the stakes, but like, how can I help you going forward? Yeah.
I mean, really just how do I move forward? I mean, I don't, I know I probably sound okay. And like, I mean, mentally I am okay.
You know, the only, the only two things that have happened where a reaction has happened was that night, the night I saw it, I was getting in my truck to drive to the game, to just show up and probably get arrested and beat the shit out of this guy. Honestly, if it wasn't for my brother, I would have been arrested.
And then probably a week or two later, I just got the urge. And I called.
I know this guy very well. He's a piece of shit.
And people blast him all over social media for who he is. And he cheats on girls all the time.
doesn't it honestly that he's like it honestly i guess it doesn't really matter doesn't matter because like either way it's gonna fucking hurt because either he's a piece of shit or a great guy either way you're gonna fucking hear him right um you know so like it doesn't it doesn't make a difference all right but go ahead yeah but no so like you know it's trying to figure out how I just move forward. I mean, I've been obviously trying to keep myself busy, going to the gym twice a day, spending time with family, spending time reading the Bible, just trying to better myself.
But like, so let me ask you this, you know, and there's no wrong answer here. I want to be very clear about that.
Take your ego out of it. Take your pride out of it.
Are you still like on the fence contemplating? Like, do I figure out a way to work this out with her i don't even know how what that looks like blah blah blah but i you know i'd still fucking love this girl and i wish it didn't happen but blah blah or are you just like you know listen i've moved on i'm not over her i'm still like fucked up a little a little broken but i i do know like she is not my person and i'm just trying to move forward which one one's more truthful? Oh, shit, dude. I guess that's why I'm calling you.
I don't know. Okay.
Fair enough. Part of me at times is like, I'm in a better headspace without her being here.
Sure. But then there's part of me that's like, if she really came to me with a genuine apology, I mean, that's the thing.
She hasn't. And she lives close enough to me to show up and make an apology.
I've ran into i've ran into her multiple times she just acts like i don't exist so it's like okay is she a heartless bitch and she you know she faked who she was so it's it's i'm 50 50 on it you know because i do love her i mean you don't just stop loving someone at three and a half years even after they do you wrong but let me ask you this to be clear has she for the most part accepted your decision and that decision is to like block her be done with her you know like to your point you know when you you've ran into her it's not like that resulted in her banging your door down she actually like she didn't know you and she knows where you live and like right i mean she hasn't so it's weird because i don't know if she's accepted it because like she doesn't she lives by me but for her to be in my on my side of town there's no need like she doesn't do anything over here there's nothing for her over here and so like literally two nights ago she's right by my house and i live in an area how do you know that there's nothing i was right i was right next to her in traffic right next to her okay well here i'm gonna say this to you first before we before we unpack what you're trying to do like and this is honestly more if i give you any advice on this call i hope you i hope you listen to this advice she fucked you up right we've get fucked up before like it she hurt you you've you know had a lot of plans you know she cheated on you or you know like and also i'm guessing her version is different because like it sounds like there was like this kind of course are you together you're not together i don't fucking know uh but listen you felt like she violated your trust and like you have the right to feel that way you've talked about self-embetterment you talked about reading your bible and yada yada yada more than anything what's's really important about this is that you don't let this person affect you to the point where you, like, you know, listen, everyone has baggage. You're going to have to deal with this shit some way, somehow, so you don't bring shit into your other relationship.
But I've seen a lot of guys get fucked up by women and, like, honestly just become toxic assholes and use that as a justification to, like, be shitty towards women and say things like hoes will be hoes and you know all women are bitches or whatever or like all women like listen people people are fucking shitty and there's a lot of shitty men out there and there's a lot of shitty women out there and everything in between right and so like i if my biggest advice to you like man to man is this like listen like she you and like, you're going to have to figure that you have a lot to figure out, but whatever you figure out, don't be so weak that you allow this person to like, at the end of the day, change your perspective and attitude towards women in general. And let this person like, you know, honestly talk about women in ways that like you would rather, you know, if you were still with your girl right now, you wouldn't be like hoes being hoes and shit like that.
And I just think don't allow yourself to let your anger change who you are and how you treat and act women in general. Yeah, for sure.
I know I said that, but that is definitely. I get it.
You're hurting right now. It's in my mind.
Listen, it's affecting you. I'm just saying i've seen a lot of guys and then like yeah i appreciate you calling me that's a good sign dealing yeah listen everything you told me it sounds like you know she by the way you know you got a pretty ex she's an attractive girl she's two years younger than you you know you're from a small you know you're you're you're from uh a small area i'm from.
Remind me of myself when I was your age.

You got a lot going for you.

Good looking guy.

You got a job like you mentioned.

So it's like you got to a certain point.

I bought a house.

I should buy a house.

And now it's like, I think a lot of people your age, right? I always say, in our 20s, we're living up to the expectations we set for ourselves as

teenagers.

When you think about it in those contexts, it sounds kind of stupid. But you're also living up to your expectations of how you were raised and your family and your community and your surroundings.
And there's a lot of good, right? I don't know. It sounds like you have a good family.
You've got good role models. And we want to model our lives for the people that have been good examples.
But you're 27, very transitional part of your life, man. It's just like, there's this weird, you're in this weird area.
Like you're, you're older than you've ever been. When you reflect back on you as a 20 year old, you're like, that guy was a stupid, dumb piece of shit.
And now I'm so much smarter and wiser and I have more money. And so you there have that, but you're also only 27 and you still have a lot of life in front of you.
Right. And then like, I would say, I agree with your girlfriend.
You got to this point where you're like, I don't know, I bought this house. We've been dating for three years and you're like, you should move in.
And you know, she was like making all these excuses and you're like, I don't need the money and blah, blah, blah. And like, in that moment, what you should have listened to was her saying, I'm not ready to move in.
And like, it honestly doesn't, there doesn't need to be a reason, right? Like I tell people, listen, like there's two reasons why people should move in with each other. One, you're engaged and or married in your, you know, like there's a actual commitment to each other.
Or two, you're both just fucking excited about the idea of moving in with each other. That's it.
It shouldn't be about rent and convenience and you were ready, but she, you know? And like, you didn't really want to listen to that. Yeah.
That's what, that's what screwed me up though, is because she was so ready to buy a house. Like she was like, we need to start looking.
Like we talked about it for months and months and months. And then when it came time to like, start looking, she just like backs off of it.
And so I don't, was a change. When we broke up in May, there was a major change that happened.
Something happened because the dynamic between me and her family completely shifted. I personally, I mean, looking back at numerous different things happened.
I think this has been going on for a while. Yeah, maybe.
And I mean, I've had several things happen out of coincidence, but if you want to break it down to its simplest form, my guess is, is that like at the end of the day, you have a little bit of an age gap between you and her. You have a lot of good things going for you.
Right. And you became more established, more secure, you know, and like, listen, at least where you are right now, you're like, you're kind of ready to start your life, whatever that life is, right? She's not ready to start her life, you know, and despite everything, you know, and I'm guessing if I were trying to empathize with her, right, if I'm trying to be her friend for a moment, just to understand her a little bit better, my guess is, is that like, you presented all the things she, you know, that 19 year old her told herself that she should be looking for and yada, yada, yada.
And you're a good guy with a good family and a good job and a nice house. And it's like, why? But like, also maybe she's just like, I don't know, maybe independent her was just not ready to accept that life.
And she didn't really know how to communicate that to you. You know know you tried your best and like i don't know like you you honestly the way you told your story you honestly sounds like you handled yourself pretty well but like you know you're probably two relatively young people who couldn't figure this part out right because like you know you live in this community that like still is rooted in family values i'm and correct me if I'm wrong, but like a lot of people, I'm guessing your communities relatively around this time are settling down and yada, yada, yada.
I saw a video of her. She's an attractive girl.
You're a, you're an attractive guy. You guys are dealing with the fact that, you know, a lot of people in the community like sometimes held down out of necessity.
You're two people like who have options, you know, you got things going for you, you know and now you're in in your 20s it's like a very it's a it's a very like i don't i don't you don't even you don't know the answer should you be settling down now you know starting your life or as a pretty you know as a guy who has a lot of things going for him i don't know man like i guess my point is if you would have told 27 year old me uh you need to chill the fuck out and you need to wait if some arch angel came down and said i got news for you buddy uh now's not the time for you to get married you know now's not the time for you to settle down you know i'm not going to tell you when it's going to happen you know and i would have been like what the fuck that you know uh everyone else in my life and all my buddies are getting wifed up i'm i've dated

everyone in fucking milwaukee that i think i could have dated like i you know what the fuck man like i'm i'm i'm ready took me yeah uh you know i'm not saying you should wait till you're 40 but like i you know you don't know what life's gonna bring you man like you don't know what what opportunities and challenges and and risks that you can take i was a free agent man and i was able to say yes to a stupid show like The Bachelor. Then I was able to

say yes to move to LA

and quit my very good job to like chase a pipe dream and it all seemed kind of fucking crazy it was calculated i had some backup plans it was thought through but like my life has changed like in the craziest possible way and honestly in a lot of ways i feel like my life's just getting fucking started and a lot of that had to do with me not getting my way when i was 27 when it came to relationships you know and all i i only tell you that story is to just be like listen man like there's you know you're gonna really struggle with letting things happen as a man as a guy who's just like you know you're 27 and you it's like you know you probably in a lot of ways feel like, fuck man, I've worked so hard to get this far. And now I want to start fucking taking control of my life, you know? And you're in that, and you buying that house and you trying to move in with your girlfriend is like, you trying to take control of your life and you had the, you know, but maybe your life wasn't ready or didn't need to be taken control of, you know? And, you know, maybe you just had to let things play out.
And my guess is like, she's giving you a lot of answers. And in this conversation, you've, like you said, you're like, you know, your instincts, your gut tells you that maybe this isn't the first time she's pulled shit like this.
It's just the first time you caught her. I don't think your girlfriend's a bad person.
I think she's a bad communicator. I think she's a pretty girl who's got some options, and she is really just not sure if she should chase the, you know, you're safe, and he's exciting.
And I'm sure, you know, that's not something to, like, fuck with your ego or whatever, and it doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't even matter who he is, right? Like, it's just something different, right? And so she's not in a position to, like, have a healthy conversation, but you've made some good fucking choices as it relates to how to handle that and now now what's you're fucking with is like you you blocked her you said fuck off goodbye i don't want to talk to you but she hasn't even she hasn't really fought for you and if i'm you and i'm your ego that's gonna fuck with me man and that's gonna like, and you're not being sure whether you still love her or you're ready to move on or not.
Honestly, like the fact that you haven't heard from you probably makes it more confusing because I would be confused if I were you and it would fuck with me. And it would just like, personally, I think you're better off just continuing down the path that you're on, saying goodbye to this relationship.
You know, the fact that she was in your proxidomy that just sucks you know but she is like nothing nothing's changed in her life that's for sure right you know what i'm saying she's no less sure you you handled it pretty well you were like you you trusted you trusted your gut you asked for clarity she couldn't give you clarity you said all right well then i got my clarity i'm looking for i'm gonna make the decision for you right and you did and then she then she went to a baseball game with a fucking dude you know uh like fresh off of you like at and it felt like a violation but that was her answer man and it was and she keeps giving you answers which is to not really fight for the relationship or not really do any work. And like, you are the stronger person in this relationship.
And that should tell you something. And that's not to be like, not for your ego to be like, I'm better and more mature than her.
And I'm, you know, but like, you're not the same level. And like, you can, and again, I'm not saying you're meant to be single for 10 years and you're supposed to go on The Bachelor or some crazy shit.

My advice to you is to just accept that maybe you are wrong about what your path should be and that you don't know what your path is. That's a good point.
And in the meantime, just make good decisions for yourself. Make healthy decisions.
Invest in good people. Invest in your family.
Read your Bible. make sure that you are not letting this person affect you in ways that project that and help the hurt people hurt people.
Make sure that you're not hurting other people because she hurt you and get to a good and healthy place where like, listen, she is just one person, man. She seems like to someone, she might be a good catch, but like, she's got some figuring some shit out to do.
And you have a lot of eligible years left, man, like you do. And so I don't know what that looks like for you, but the more you can just be comfortable with being alone, be fine that you bought this house, be open to the possibilities of what options you even have for this house.
can rent it you can sell it who knows man you literally have your whole fucking life in front of you and you have a lot of good things going for you and this is a bump in the road but like everything that matters you still have you still got your family you still got your job you still got your health you know you still got your age which you know you're only gonna get older but man you are truly as eligible as you're ever gonna be and honestly you gotta have a good you have a good 15 fucking years left to be like prime eligible bachelor for literally any age group of women and so might as well just take it you know i only say that to you right now because i don't want you to make some sort of like hasty decision to like convince yourself you need to go back to this girl you know for whatever reason yeah no i i mean i i really i've had i think it's been a little over i think it's been right at a month since this happened there has been very little thought like should i go back to her i won't reach out to her like it's gonna be you know if she even wanted that it would come with a lot of work of her having to apologize and like genuinely mean it but like in the meantime i'm not waiting i'm not waiting for that like i'm pushing myself forward good good every day and the truth is you don't run myself out there your ego wants to hear from her i'm guessing you know but like you should like she's not changing anytime soon you know what i'm saying whatever that was stopping her from saying yes to you and yes to moving in and yes to moving forward and taking the next step like that hasn't changed in her life you know what i'm saying correct and and she wasn't wrong you know that's a that's the thing that we struggle with like right is that in the heat of the moment when you were trying to convince her or talk with her and you needed an answer whatever was telling her i'm not ready was her truth and she can love you and think you're great and know that a life with you would be pretty good and realize i don't know man i just i'm not ready to be a fucking housewife yeah i wasn't it you know i'm not saying you're pressuring her at all that worked up yeah i wasn't worked up i wanted it either it was like okay that's fine. Like, I wasn't, you know, I'm not saying you're pressuring her at all.
I wasn't really that worked up. Yeah.
I wasn't worked up on it either. It was like, okay, that's, that's fine.
Like I'm, you know, I'm patient. I have patience.
No, I know. But like, you know, like you said though, one, sometimes a relationship gets to a certain point and like, I think two people act like, you know, like in terms of what are we doing here? We have been dating for three and a half years.
Where is it going? You know, like it's a, there's no wrong answer like the only thing that really sucks is that like she just was like too cowardice and too immature to just give you an honest fucking answer and like i don't know man i'm not i'm not ready for this type of relationship and yeah i think we i think we need some distance but she didn't have the guts to do it so you did it for her. And then she took the easy way out and got a little sloppy, and she wasn't stupid.
You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying she went to get caught, but like you said, she knew what she was doing. She knew what she was doing, and maybe there's a part of her that kind of wanted, maybe she doesn't want to be lying.
Very few people are narcissistic sociopaths who just don't give a fuck they're just they just don't they lack the maturity or the emotional whatever the fuck that like allows them to just say you know what fuck i'm scared as fuck i i don't know i don't know if i'm gonna regret this but i do know right now i'm not ready and yeah we should probably take some real time apart and i wish I could be friends with you and I wish I could call you every day, but I know that's not fair to you and we should break up. And I'm really sorry that I made promises to you about getting married to you.
And, and if I, you know, but like, I'm sorry. And I fucked up and I know you're going to hate me, but like, this is what I need for myself.
And she didn't have the guts to do that. She went to a baseball game instead.
Yep. If she had done that, it would have been a different, like seeing it would have been still sucked, but I guess a lot more like easy to swallow.
Yeah. You don't need, honestly, you don't even know that.
Honestly, you really don't know that. Yeah.
Yeah. I guess you're right.
I mean, that's just a hindsight, just your hindsight thought, but it's just the fact to stringing me along, blowing my phone up, blowing my phone i'm wondering what i'm doing all this and it's like you know why do that listen that's right and do yourself a favor by giving her the grace of just saying honestly it's like she wasn't capable of it and you're not making excuses for her because you're not begging for her to take her back she just she had some growing up to do i was too blind to see it because i you know i decided that i wanted certain things and i you know fuck man like when we're in love man like we just we kind of bulldoze through things because we want to get our way and and you know and like so i would just give her some grace so you can let go of the anger and the hate or whatever and like because that just keeps you emotionally invested right like that's the shit that like when you're driving like you're in your car now that you just go down this mental rabbit hole you get fucking angry and you start asking yourself some questions and you're just like you know fuck man like there was that one time was she fucking cheating on me then man like fuck honestly who gives a fuck now you have your answer you you know, regardless of the messy details, your girlfriend just wasn't as emotionally ready for what you guys talked about as she claimed to be.

And it probably wasn't malicious.

She probably thought she did.

And she was wrong and maybe a little self-centered and a little immature about it.

And she hurt you as a result.

But, like, she's not a bad person.'s just not your person especially right now and it just is how you got here so like let her figure out her shit say goodbye to her if there's a future for you two i can confidently say it's not in the next year you know and she might need to date other guys or whatever do her thing and i don't know maybe maybe in a year you guys run into each other again and maybe she's ready to be like i was really shitty as a girlfriend to you and i'm really sorry and i just want to say that and maybe there's a twinkle in each other's eyes and i don't know maybe something happens then but like i really confidently can say that chances are you guys need some real distance some real separation or some real personal closure and not closure you're gonna get from her that's you just being like you know what we are done you know and this chapter's over and if there is a chapter for us in the beginning that's a chapter that really needs to like play itself out in the future because right now i this this person needs to figure her shit out and I can't be here on the sidelines as her friend to help her yeah another part I want to add in that you can maybe give me some advice on so like I tell you I didn't reach out to her text her caller nothing like nothing at all and so I ran ran into her dad and I was always very close to their dad. And so I just went, I mean, we were at a golf course and I ran into him and I just went up to tell him like, thanks for all you did for me.
Really appreciated everything you did. And hated that I couldn't, you know, talk to you before all this happened.
He has the nerve to basically put his finger in my face telling me to quit disrespecting his daughter quit making up these lies and rumors i mean he went on to tell me that our relationship was over three months ago and had the nerve to tell me that you're in his or you're the problem sorry say that again he told you that you're in hers relationship was over three months ago or your and his? Me and hers. He said, I hate to break it to you, but y'all's relationship ended three months ago.
Which, I mean, I didn't see that. I don't know how that's possible, but he's not making that shit up on his own.
I know him well enough. He's not making that up.
That came from somewhere. Yeah.
And so I went on to talk to him and he's saying that I'm bad mouthing her, which I'm not, I'm not. I mean, I have friends asking me, you know, where's she at? Where's she at? And I just, I straight up told him.
You have the right to, you have the right to be honest. Yeah.
Right. And so, but I guarantee you, she does not see it that way.
You know what I'm saying? She obviously is operating semantics, you know? And you say, you know, you bring up bring up the narcissism thing i'm not gonna be the one to diagnose somebody with that at all but he certainly has those traits and uh what's getting back to me and genuinely like i don't give a fuck what she says at this point i really don't but for her to go around telling people that i cheated on her when there's there's no evidence i've cheated on her. I've always been loyal to her.
Dragging my name through the fucking mud. I don't care what she's saying, but I do care that it's out there, if that makes sense.
Who is she saying it to other than her dad? All of her friends. And we share a pretty unique circle of friends.
So it's pretty obvious what side people are picking. I don give a fuck what side people pick I really don't I mean I know it really genuinely happened it's just that it's like and what what is she saying about is my reputation what is she saying just telling people that I cheated on her that I treated her like shit that I was an addict I I mean I'm not addicted to anything like literally anything I don't do drugs I barely drink socially I gamble here and there I mean I don't know what addiction I would fucking have like you can hook me up to a lie detector test for all this there's nothing I mean you're getting to the fullest extreme to protect herself you're getting your answer man like and listen I you know you're right you're you're do yourself no favors by diagnosing her like listen she's very selfish right now and a lot of and a lot of 20 something people are and quite honestly should be i don't not this way her dad's certainly gonna have her back totally get that you're going around telling people she cheated on you and she's like this motherfucker broke up with me two days before that i didn't cheat on him you know like that's her truth guarantee it right and i get why your truth is very different you know you're just like bro we we've been going back and forth you've been my girlfriend for three years this is like another one of your things and like regardless if you cheated on me or not like you i don't know what what it felt like in the moment i bet it felt pretty fucking shitty and you could give some analogy or whatever but like it hurt you you know that's what mattered and she knew it would hurt you and like you know semantics about cheating or whatever so like my advice to you is to stop talking about her period yeah that really does do a lot who gives a shit who gives a shit what people think anymore about whether you cheated or she you're broken up man and you know and if people on a one-on-one situation want to ask you questions and whether I understand your reputation matters to you, but I'm guessing most people don't give a fuck.
And I'm guessing most people see this as messy gossip. And if it doesn't affect your job, and doesn't affect your relationship with your family, or doesn't affect your relationship with your closest friends, then it just don't matter.
Well, that's what I'm worried about is it is getting back to my job. Okay.
Not that it's going to affect me, but people I work with are connected to her family in one way or another. And that's being brought up.
And again, that's where I kind of have a problem. That's why I was saying saying i don't give a fuck if she tells it to her little friends whatever but when it's starting to affect family friends family close friends and job like you said then it becomes a problem i mean i don't know do you think it's gotten to the point where you can just like ways raise the right flag and just be like listen man like i know i haven't talked to you since why are you saying some of this stuff and then, well, you're saying shit about me and be like, you know, whatever I said and however I feel about the end of our relationship, it really is what it is.
But like, you know, I just be like, fine, I'll stop. But like, I don't even want to debate with you whether we think, but like, you guys can sit there and debate whether she cheated on you.
But if she's literally saying out of pocket things, like you have an addiction and you're like, I don't know, I went to the casino a couple of times and I got drunk once, you know, you know you can be like why why are you saying stuff like this with like why are you trying to hurt me yeah you know like why why a small silver lining maybe this is like her way of getting your fucking attention uh because you blocked her and i'm not saying you should bring her back in your life but i don't know if you really think it's affecting it's getting the point where it could affect things that matter maybe the gentlest way, you just wave that flag and just say, can we move on from each

other's lives?

I, you know, I don't want to be, you know, obviously I'm hurt.

I care about you.

Like, I don't like how things ended, but like what I don't like, why, why has it gotten

to this point?

And can we just stop whatever it is that we think our each other's are doing and just

not bad mouth each other?

You know, I don't, I mean, do you think, do you think that we'll get through to her?

Yeah, I can do that.

Thank you. stop whatever it is that we think each other's are doing and just not badmouth each other.
Do you think that will get through to her? I can do that. I can definitely do that.
I've kind of come to terms with it anyway. Like I said, I've ran into her quite a few times and I'm prepared to have that conversation.
Like I said, I don't want to debate. I'm not here to argue.
Let's just end it on the most civil terms we can possibly do and just move on like you said i'm tired of fucking talking about it i really am i think if you were i sent this message in a couple weeks ago okay so i followed through with it anyway but like i genuinely other than that like in the last week i've haven't talked about it to anybody at all that's good well that's progress so listen if you're really on a path to healing like the best way to like listen you reaching out to be clear like has its purpose and that purpose is to diffuse whatever drama so that this you know doesn't trickle into like things that actually can affect your life like obviously this is affecting your life because it's emotional and she fucked you up but like it's one thing to have heartbreak and another thing for it to like bleed in other aspects of your life. Right.
So you have a purpose here. Right.
And if your purpose is, is just simply diffuse it, nothing else matters. Then the best way to connect with her or get through to her is to like, honestly, tell her what she wants to hear, whatever that is.
Like, and you know her best. And, and maybe I think I, well, that's what I'm saying is, you know, know you you attract bees better with honey than with vinegar right i'm sure you've heard that saying well i don't think you should say anything to try to get her back you can say things like listen man like i just if she says like you're talking shit about me blah blah blah don't say because you cheated on me just be like yeah listen man i was i was really heartbroken that i you know our relationship was over and obviously like there was a lot of hurt and i'm not trying to point the finger but i am just we should stop you know and just tell her that you're gonna miss her tell her that she was a great girlfriend tell her that she you know that just compliment her you know just like put your ego aside and just tell her what you know because that shows strength like the more emotional mature person who is above this bullshit is going to just be able to just fucking you know i remember like when my when i was 28 years old my then fiancee cheated on me right and she you know very similar to like you there were rumors and like i don't know what exactly happened but emotionally physically i don't know some fucking shit went down that much I know is clear, right? And then finally, it fucked me up a little bit.
We live in the same town. And then I got a new girlfriend.
A few months later, she ended up getting engaged to this guy. Then she's out on her bachelorette party.
And at that point, I was pretty much overhealed and good, right? And then my then-girlfriend was bartending. And I would always go to her bar with me and my buddies.
And I was like, hey, my girlfriend i'm gonna go to fucking free drinks and have fun you know because i'm not gonna go hit on girls i'll just like hang out with my girlfriend while she's bartending right and then my ex walks in at her bachelor party knowing where my then girlfriend works and i was so chill and so like above it and so like not triggered her because i knew like i knew what she was doing and i was like oh man congratulations i'm really happy for you guys it's gonna be great and this and she just starts crying because like she she came in to fuck with me and i was like so good and so like you know and i was happy for her and she didn't even know how to fucking process it you know and i was just like that's wild you know and so just tell her what she wants to hear, man. You, she is this, this, she is reacting to something you're doing, right? I'm guessing, you know, when you, you said like, I ran into her and she acts like I don't exist.
Do you, do you also act like she doesn't exist? No. So, so I did.
So backstory, I work out at a gym around the corner from my house and she goes every morning to get this like nutrition shit, whatever it is. And so the first day I walked out, she was walking in and we just like looked at each other and turned away.
And then a few days later it happened. I just smiled and waved.
So ever since then, I just smile and wave every time she doesn't do anything back. She doesn't smile and wave? No.
She acts like I did something to her now you know so it's like whatever but i'm more than emotionally stable and okay to have a conversation with her and be completely completely fine i mean be careful you know just i would go in just knowing that it sounds like i don't know she's i don't know what's going on in her head but like i would i would be careful i would be very self-aware of everything that's going on you know don't put yourself in a position where she can make up anything else and just wave that white flag and just say listen like i just i hate that it's gotten this way i don't think we should be friends you know i care i i love you you too much to try to be your friend but i hate that it's gotten this way can we just be like can we wish each other well you know and if you want to if you if you want to talk about anything i'm sorry if i blocked you i'm sorry if whatever you know i don't think you i don't honestly think i hope she doesn't follow through with this but just try to be someone who's like, make her feel guilty about talking shit. Just, just try to like, just try to like bring her off that ledge.
Just be, make her feel bad about being mean. Cause right now there, there's a good chance that her, this behavior is like trying to get your attention.
You know, granted she's had you waved and like, you know, but you wave and smiling. Like, I don't know, maybe she sees that as you being a smart ass or waving and you're okay like she wants i don't know she wants something from you i don't know what it is she wants a reaction yeah i mean it's it's to the point now where like i mean this is kind of irrelevant but the only social media that i have is linkedin just for work work reasons and like i see her checking it every day now like i have it where i can see who views my profile so she's like doing that she's driving out of her way right by my house this isn't the first time it's happened in the last few weeks it's like look if you want to stop and have a conversation like you yeah you fucked me over but i still like i'm i still have no ill will towards you know like i can still you got a little and that's okay you're allowed to you're a human being um so i think it's okay i think you should acknowledge you're still angry uh you're not over it yeah that's okay it's only been a month and i think you can still try to be like just be honest with her and just try to let go of the anger.
Just be like, I am angry, but like, I still fucking love you, even though I don't think we should be together. And it still hurts.
And I don't, you know, fuck, man. But like, why are we making our lives even harder than you need to be? You know, like, can we just, can we not? You know, like, I don't, you know, admit it.
Like, I don't, like, fuck, man. Even if it's not true, just tell her you think about her.
It probably is true. But like, you know like i don't you know in a minute like i don't like fuck man i even if it's not true just tell her you think about her it's probably is true but like you know um you're this is about self-preservation but like if you keep working on yourself man you're really honest with yourself and you make healthy decisions you'll get through this and you know i don't know where my ex is now these days but i can confidently say whether it was her or the ex before her or the ex after like i'm really good or happy with how i made choices versus them and i'm not saying i am even a twinkle in their eye anymore but like i definitely feel like i won the breakups you know and that was because like i dealt with my fucking shit in a way that i you know was able to like move on where i didn't like when i did run into them i i felt it i felt good i felt emotionally regulated i could honestly be there for them emotionally without it emotionally affecting me you're not there yet right like when you're in the relationship when you were trying to be there for your girlfriend when struggling, hard for you to fully be there for her because you're all very confused why she won't move in with you.
And you're trying to be there for her, but you need her to be there for you. When I was running into my ex-girlfriend's, you know, after I had moved on, I didn't need to be there for them anymore.
I didn't need, I certainly didn't need them to be there for me. Right.
I was good. You know, I was fine.
I didn't give a, I knew that as soon as I was saying goodbye to them i'm like whatever and i maybe tell my friend hey i ran into so-and-so but it wouldn't like fucking cannibalize my day and when you're in that position you have so much fucking power and you have so much control and like you just feel like above it and you're good and you can you know it's a power that you don't want to you know use because you you can manipulate, you can, you can, you feel like this out of body of experience where you recognize like, you know, you in the past would have been all fucked up, but now you can literally say things because you know, you're just trying to, you're just trying to help her. You're trying to help her get to the place that you're at.
And honestly, you don't even mind if she gets over you because you know, you're not, you know, a lot of people it's like, I don't want to date you but i still want you not over me so and that's kind of a little bit where she is right now like she probably is still enjoying her freedom but she just wants to know that you're still fucked up over so like give her what she wants oh yeah yep yep you know let her know that you're an absolute hot mess of whatever and that you're sad but you don't you know i don't know um what you want is this you want you wanted to not bleed into other healthy aspects of your life correct that's it yep all right was this helpful yeah yeah dude i appreciate it seriously cool man uh well sorry you're going through this uh i relate to you man it's um i really think this could be a i was around your age when similar shit happened like this to me and i look back at that time of life is a very pivotal time in my life i i look back on that life as a time where i i think to myself i actually finally learned who i was as a person as a man as an adult i'm sure you've thought that before but i promise you like you're gonna have other periods of your life where you're gonna be like whoa fuck man like that was damn i was stupid when i was 27 you know you might even say that about about 30 year old you like 40 year old you is gonna look back you know like you should always be learning you should always be growing as if you're a finished product at 27 you're you're not you know you're you're just you're. Um, so just keep, just keep being willing and being open.
Let life happen. Be open to keep, keep your circle healthy.
Keep, keep, you know, take risks, but make healthy calculated risks and good choices. Be patient.
Shit will work out, man. I promise.
Yeah, for sure, man. Thank you.
I really appreciate that. All right.
Take care. I appreciate the call.
Always great i appreciate the call always great hearing from uh our our men it's honestly no different man like we're all human beings who are just trying to like we we're all trying to like make our our life movie the best possible outcome in general and and we're all just figuring it out at the same time so that's kind of where you're at right now yep's a pivotal point. But like you said, a lot of good can happen from this.
So I'm looking forward to that. Absolutely.
All right, man. I appreciate the call.
If you're down, I'd love an update in a month from now where things are at. Yeah, for sure, man.
I'll reach back out. I appreciate you.
I'll talk to you later. Thanks, man.
Y'all take care. All right.
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How's it going? I'm great. My name is Hannah and I am 34 years old.
How can I help Hannah? I don't know how to handle my twin sister's affair. Okay.
Your twin sister. Are you guys identical? Not that that matters.
I'm just... No, we're not identical, but we are extremely close.
Probably just about as close as twins can be. Where are we in the affair process? Is it ongoing? Who knows about it? Give me the deets.
What are we dealing with here? To my knowledge, they started the affair sometime early last summer. I think it was building a little bit before then uh my sister actually left her husband um for this guy okay and um then she went back to her husband and my understanding was that they had broken up but then you know because she confides in me they got back together then they broke up again then they got back together so i who's breaking up and getting back together her and her husband sorry the affair partner okay and how much if any did the husband know about the back and forth um he had his suspicions but they've been together for so long that it just like it couldn't be true so does he know anything yet like does he know why she left now he knows yeah now he knows that um she had an affair he hopes and believes and is telling himself that it is over but it's not um i think it's over um in a lot of ways but i think that uh they work together and i think that there's still a lot of like wink wink but like you're still my love kind of like situation going on.
And what's the other person's situation? The affair partner. So they're coworkers.
He's been divorced several times. He is much, much older.
I've met him, not a cool guy. And he had a long-term girlfriend that he broke up with for my sister.
And what is your sister have kids or anything like that? Nope. No kids.
Not yet. They were planning on doing that soon, but that, you know, this put a wrench in everything.
Okay. Well, how long have they been married for? They've been married for, they had their, they would have had their anniversary and their fifth anniversary in december but they've been together since my sister was 19 that's like her only you know person she's ever had interesting they never got divorced though they just separated they separated and now they're like i'll tell you all about it now they're um you know she's sort of moved back in and you know it's it's very messy so what messy.
So what do you say to your sister right now? Like what's your relationship status with her and like, how open do you guys talk about this? Um, open, so open to open. It's a huge burden on me.
She told me in the beginning before I knew that it was going to become a full fledged affair. Um, she told me, you know, that she had, you know, you know, an a fit of passion, you know, slept with someone else.
So this would have been just the second person she's ever had sex with, you know, she's only ever been with her husband. And I, you know, didn't want to panic or freak out, even though I'm pretty tight with my brother-in-law.
I don't know, didn't know how to act. So, so she, she told me and I kind of, you know, let it go, like, let it be like, okay, well, you know, you keep that, you keep that a secret.
Then it happened again. Then it happened again.
Um, and by the end of last summer, why'd you tell her to keep it a secret? Because my sister and I have such a strange bond, which is kind of like, you know, no matter what, uh, you, we were there for each other. What do you, what is there for each other mean to you? When you can't count on anyone else to not judge you, to not, uh, to not punish you, to not whatever, like, it's just your open ears.
And that's always been our relationship. So I, uh, you know, I wasn't going to question, I guess, like how, you know, so here's what I'm hearing from you.
Like you said, like you and your obviously twin sister, not surprisingly are very close, very connected. And like you said, you know, your, your relationship is unique and there's this kind of unspoken or maybe sometimes spoken bond that you guys are always there for each other.
And there for each other means you guys can tell each other secrets and without judgment or shame or simply just listen without offering any criticism critiques or tough love or hard advice you're just simply there to listen except i guess in some ways validate and approve of of things even if you don't would that would that be accurate

well that's like oh my gosh yeah nail on the head um with that yeah you know and i'm saying obviously you calling because your feelings internally have changed but you're grappling with how to relay that message to your sister right that's what i'm hearing um i'm grappling with how i mean i've been uh i've my has changed, especially in recent months or, and even just as immediately as, you know, when I wrote in, but, um, I'm, I'm, what I'm grappling the most with is, um, recent, you know, kind of like, you know, beginning, you know, about a month or two ago of, of just disgust and anger, um, with my sister. And I'm worried that I won't ever be able to, you know,

rebuild that kind of, you know, relationship with her. Okay.
Well, you know, that's certainly a valid concern, but I don't know if we're quite there yet. But I think, I guess my question to you is, and maybe, you know, it's a bit rhetorical because obviously you're communicating your problem, but like, how do you feel like this dynamic with your sister has helped your relationship with her as you both have gotten older in adult life? And how has that relationship and that dynamic helped you guys as individuals being each other's closest confidence? I think it's helped her a lot.
And I've done a of reflecting on this lately you think it's helped me well how and again i'm not i'm not here to judge either of you in terms of like how you've helped each other but like do you think it's helped her if you are her if you are her closest support system confidant and again i'm in no way blaming you but like she has come to you and over the course of sounds like this has been going on over a year uh over a course of a law extended period of time she is operating in a way that you very much don't approve of it's affecting your relationship uh from an outsider looking in she is blowing up her. And now maybe her current husband and her high school sweetheart or whatever, maybe they're just not each other's person long-term.
And that's definitely a possibility. But whatever she decides, she's clearly going about it in the most toxic way that is not only affecting her immediate relationship with a person that regardless of whether she wants to spend the rest of her life with him she is hurting this man in ways that like we quite we currently don't know the damage that she is doing or will have done to this man his psyche his emotional health his ability to move on heal whatever like she's only giving a fuck about herself and it's gotten to the point where right now you are afraid that your your relationship with your sister may never be the same going forward so again repeating that question how do you feel like this current dynamic has helped her i mean because you're not a therapist right like she doesn't pay you to give her therapy and she's not paying you for her mental health, but like, and you know, but like clearly you listen and you're there for her and I'm sure she gets things off her chest, but it is not resulting in her making healthy decisions for herself or her relationship with you or her relationship with her husband.
And so, you know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, totally. In my mind, this, this relationship dynamic isn't serving either of you.
Right.

And it's become a bit,

you know,

well-intentioned no less,

but I don't know,

to me being there for people,

especially in adult life,

um,

requires more than just,

you know,

this understanding that we will simply be,

that we will listen without any shame or judgment. You're a human being.
So you can promise your sister all you want, that you won't judge her. And you may do your best to hide how you feel, but, you know, you are judging her, right? You, you internally, you know, and whether your sister knows that or not, or feels that or not, it is happening.
And so you are in a way not being honest with your sister either about how you feel about her actions. And so now you have this dynamic where you've kind of agreed to just listen without judgment, but like ultimately you're judging her inside.
You're feeling more and more disconnected from your sister, you know, and again, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, if you're looking for answers of how to approach this, right, because I'm guessing you feel like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. And like, here you have this dynamic with your sister, this relationship, this understanding, this unspoken bond with your twin sister.
And then she's also like making these choices and you feel like, well, what do I do? You know, like I, do I you know do i address this or how do i handle that and i'm here to say like this dynamic has stopped working for you guys as you guys have grown into adulthood uh and discovered yourselves and and realize maybe things that you want clearly your sister is discovering herself into her early 30ies as someone who's been with one man her whole life. And while I empathize with like how that might be affecting her, these feelings, she's clearly making choices and covering for her choices and justifying her choices.
And she has you aiding and abetting her choices. While you don't necessarily want to be doing that, that sounds like what you're doing.
And that has indirectly caused you to become further apart. And so I think when you look at it that way, I hope that makes you feel less obligated to this dynamic that you are worried about changing.
Well, yeah, I mean, absolutely. And the fact of the matter is that, I mean, things have changed.
Like now we, I mean, the last weeks and months, you know, probably for the, especially since the last like month or so, what, since she's moved back in with her husband, she still comes to me with some of the same problems she came to me about before. And now I'm giving, like, I mean, I feel so mean to her I am and I am I'm telling her

what's what I'm telling her everything I'm telling she's like she doesn't have that in me anymore

and furthermore um out of what are you telling her right now so she keeps um saying that she's

ended all contact with the affair partner with whom she works um she they're they're both school

teachers together in a small school they're both history teachers and they and they she he's one you know door down so he she has sworn on like a you know a stack of bibles a million times it's over and then in a moment of like you know panic she'll tell me well it's over but also like he did you know there was like this kind of like whisper of like but you know but to work things out with him, maybe, but then we'll see in the future, you know, kind of like this subterfuge and who knows. So I've just been very, very, very angry at her, very like verbally angry at her.
And, and one important thing to note is that since about January, I've been speaking on the phone with my brother-in-law, her husband, just about every day as kind of like his confidentidant, a confidant as they kind of like get back together. And I am, I've never been, I've never felt closer to him.
I've never felt, you know, more of a responsibility to him. I am more aware, I think, than my sister is of his pain, you know, without like the, you know, in the immediate, they have their communications terrible with me.
I've been like this kind of translator between the two of them. My boyfriend thinks that I'm like, you know, I mean, it's like, it's almost like I'm like trading, you know, international like stocks or something.
I'm just like constantly on the phone with one, then the other, then the other. And do either of them know that? They both know that.
They both know that I am like, yeah. I mean mean they both know that i'm like the third party in this crazy like three some of reconciliation it's i mean i've like it's wild i mean like right now i just got a text from him like any news any word like here's what i feel today is are is he in therapy are they in therapy they're they before they separated, they started therapy.
And, but it was really just a means for my sister to tell him what's what and that they were going to separate. And now that they're kind of like, you know, they're living together again and by all, you know, official like accounts, they're, they're getting back together.
They are together again. They go like twice a week now to the same therapist and they've had a lot of like breakthroughs and stuff, but it's just, you know, it's a lot of my brother-in-law expressing like, you know, what the fuck you hurt me so much.
Like, this is what, you know, like even before I found out about the affair, you were so cruel and distant and I didn't know. And then it's her just being like, everyone's mad at me, you know? Um, so it's just like, so like my opinion of her, my respect for her, you know, it's, I mean, I'm just so tight with him.
Is your, is your sister in individual therapy? Oh no, no. She, I mean, they, they go, she goes, she meets with their couples, um, therapist individually, I think like once every week or every two weeks they both do.
And then they come together. It's like part of sure okay how they're doing it but it's not but it's a but it's like it but it's still part of the couple's therapy i got you're not like her own gotcha yeah it sounds like maybe your sister has a lot to unpack as an individual maybe i mean you know like she's obviously acting like the victim in a situation where she's the destroyer um you know like um what can can i help you with like where are you at yeah so yeah and i figured you you would ask that because usually when it's like this you know messy that's the question you ask but i um so i my my biggest concern is that i want to which is just because it's my own shit but i'm my biggest concern is making sure that i can i uh you know, love and respect my sister again in the future.
Trying to even though she's done be doing a bad thing, because, you know, as we know, like people do bad things and it doesn't have to. But now that I'm so involved, it's harder for me to, you know, feel that way.
And also, I just really need her to to focus on her relationship with her husband or not or break up and leave me out of it. It feels like we're breaking a twin bond, like a pact we've always had where I have to be like, no, this time for the first time in our big years, I can't do this anymore.
It's killing me. Well, that was kind of what was coming to mind.
My question I was going to ask you was like, how often have you really told your sister no? Next to never, you know? Well, sometimes, you know, listen, I have a young daughter. She's 13 months, love her unconditionally, you know? I don't know.
Not that it's a competition, but I bet I love her just as much as you love your sister, right? And like part of loving my daughter, you know to have to tell her no. Lots of times.
The whole like, oh, she'll give me the eyes and whatever. But saying no to someone doesn't mean you don't love them.
I feel like to her, it almost would. That's her problem.
But I'm telling you objectively, regardless of what you think or what your sister thinks, it's a fact that you can love someone deeply, care about them deeply and tell them no. And I think it's a little toxic for anyone to think otherwise.
And if you feel like you can't show love to someone you say no to, then something about that relationship is wrong or needs to be fixed or broken. Her therapist, my brother-in-law told me, because that's like, yeah, again, like I'm way too, I'm so involved that I know things my sister doesn't know that he said, and my brother-in-law doesn't know that she said.
It's all like this like crazy, like game of telephone. But he told me that it came out in therapy that, you know the therapist believes that our relationship is in in a certain way a little bit too intimate and that you know it's also kind of like whose relationship you and your sister are you you and your you and your brother oh sorry my relationship with my sister and or her basically her relationship with me rather i want to clarify that well it your relationship with each other.
Whereas her relationship, her intimate relationship, her most intimate relationship

should be with him and maybe never was and certainly isn't now. So I just thought that

was interesting that that's what the therapist said.

Yeah, I could see that. I mean, there's something going on with your relationship,

the more you talk about it, that seems off to me. Well-intentioned, no less, but off.

And not serving either of you. And now here you are playing therapist.
You're not a therapist and you can be a good friend and certainly a great sister and a good sister-in-law and you can have the best intentions, but also be careful. I'm sure you feel it too.
You feel too involved, too lost. You're not sure what side you're on, if you're on any side at all, you're connecting with your brother-in-laws in ways that are honestly, your sister should probably be connecting with.
It's just all very confusing. Not to mention, I can't imagine that you're, you said you have a boyfriend, like this is going to, this just, this is a virus, a toxic virus that just spreads like a disease, you know? And you are, you are part, you've, you've caught the cold, so to speak.
And so again, you can be well intentioned, but like you are caught up in this, you are part of this drama. And I think you need to be very careful as well as tension.
And, you know, and like, obviously that's why you're calling in, you're asking for help. I commend you for doing that.
But like, you know, my advice is just also be careful. I think, I to start sending some healthy boundaries with both of them.
More specifically, my brother-in-law invited me to attend just because I'm so involved anyway. And I come up in every conversation that they have with their therapist.
They invited me to come to therapy a few times with them, which was kind of like when I when I you know reached out to you

but I know that you know as I said in my you know when I when I wrote into aside from the obvious boundary issues my twin sister is she's been the the things she's done the things she continues to do every day I you know I'm saying this in kind of like the stupid internet way but but I'm like, narcissist, like, and no empathy. No, no, like, like absolutely nothing.
Like the, you know, she will like fall on her knees crying about how her affair partner must be feeling right now. And then when I see her with her husband, as she like, like I helped her move back some stuff the other day out of like her apartment that she was renting she like she was like begrudgingly I had to like make her move that stuff she was crying all over herself we brought in like three Tupperware things so then and like she walked in the door placed it on there kind of just like I'm here no no everything's fine everything's fine and then he and I made like did our best to like make like like you, like, you know, some levity, some small talk or something, but just like, she can't even, she's like, just the cruelty.
And it's not even just like, I'm not calling in to help them. She can call in, you know, someday to call, talk about how her relationship is.
But just like, I watched that and my jaw is on the ground and I'm just like, and there's nothing like the, the cruelty, the, the, you know, the, just, just the, the obvious lack of empathy. And when I speak to my brother-in-law about it, I can't even deny it.
I'm just like, this, this is not someone we've ever known to be so cold. So, and so, and I just, if I don't, I've always felt, you know, since I was a child and especially, you know, after we went to different colleges and stuff like that, we were,

our like little, our bond has always been like such a, an institution,

like a pillar in my life. Like I don't have more.
I don't know if I,

I don't have my sister. I don't, I don't got shit, you know?

And now I'm just like, I like,

I don't know that a seer the same ever.

I feel, I feel, listen, I don't know your sister.

I don't know you very well. This is obviously a bump in the road.
That's for sure. You know, I think I'm sure you heard me say, it's just like there have been, you know, not maybe to that degree.
We've all had times and periods in our life where we're going to look back and be ashamed of the person we were, you know, and maybe that's just bouts of narcissism, selfishness, self-centeredness. Sometimes we just, you know, get so caught up in our own bullshit that we come across to many people like your sister seems to be coming across to you.
Right. And again, definitely not a therapist.
I'm not even in a position, even if she was here, I'm not in a position to diagnose, but like, I don't know. I'm going to just go ahead and bet that like your sister didn't magically become a narcissist.
Right. And that like, it's not as if right now you're looking back at your entire relationship and like for the first time ever seeing your sister in a whole new way and realizing that since the age of like 10, she's kind of been the narcissist and she's like some sociopath or whatever.
That doesn't seem to be the case, right? So she's going through something and certainly demonstrating narcissistic, she's only caring about herself. So listen, I'm optimistic that she can work through this, but to work through it, you two might have to go through some periods of major reform and that might require you to what you feel.
You say, yo, if I don't have my sister, who am I? This is also an opportunity for you to rediscover yourself as an individual. I don't know what it's like to be a twin or have a twin or that bond.
And I have no doubt it's very special and something that you two have that most people who aren't twins don't have. That is not an excuse to look the other way or ignore bad behavior because you guys have such a bond that you need to basically be there to enable each other and approve of bad behavior in the spirit of being close.
You might have to say, I don't know who you are anymore. I don't like who you've become right now.
I believe you as a person. I'm glad you're working through this, but I'm no longer going to listen and approve of things.
And if you want to be in my life, you get ready to start hearing exactly how I feel. I will always unconditionally love you, but I definitely do not like who you are right now.
I don't like what you've become. I don't approve of it.
You can say things like, I'm just, I don't know. I don't know how direct you want to be, but you have to, you know, without name calling and trying to hurt her, you have to start being honest with her.
You just made me think of something too, actually. So when we were really young, or not even not even really young even just like whatever five years ago or something I I went through a series of like really hard things I was always the one who like you know I I you know as soon as I could I moved you know internationally I did my own thing I was away you know I was like kind of like living on the phone with my family for a long time with my sister.
It was all the time. I went through horrible, like long-term relationships, like things that were, you know, abusive, things that were really dangerous, things that weren't right for me, just like pretty dark stuff.
And even though I spoke to her about it all the time, all the time, she knew every single one. It was just almost kind of like this, you know, facade of just like, you know, encouragement kind of just like, you know, she never, she never once gave me tough love or tried to, or, you know, flew out to save me or, you know, or demanded that I, you know, she never did that because it was kind of like to her that was going against the, you know, if I didn't want to do it, then, then, you know, screw that.
That's actually just you talking about that kind of just, that was the first time that popped into my brain to think about, like as a comparison. I mean, she wasn't ever, she was never there for me that way.
In my, in my opinion, you know, um, and this is not, this is more about friendships rather than, you know, brother or sister relationship dynamic, but I know there's a lot of friends out there and I see it more with women than I do with men. But there's a lot of friendships out there.
When you break it down, the thing that are most there for each other is to keep each other's secrets. And I know a lot of ladies, or I've met a handful of ladies that have friendships like that.
And that's what they value most about the relationship. relationship when you break it down they're there just to like you know they have that one friend who pulls some shit now and then and they can go to because everyone kind of needs to tell like one person even if they're doing things they don't totally like like about themselves because they want to find someone who can like kind of justify their choices and their their excuses you know and things like that you know but i don't know to me that's not a friendship and and and yeah or you know and so it sounds to me like someone who won't bother you someone who won't tell mom or whatever so that like here you are talking about toxic relationships borderline dangerous relationships that you are a part of and your sister knew every ounce of it every truth

of that relationship and did nothing about it other than just make you feel like hurt and even validated like if i say but it's fine you know it's like yeah damn straight it's fine you know slay twin you're the you know that's what she and honestly it's like almost as now she's like cashing in

her uh her chips as i were there for you when you were making your self-centered selfish or self-destructive choices maybe they weren't even self-centered maybe they were coming from a place of pain or or whatever but like whatever the reason she now feels like you're supposed to accept her choices.

Right. And so

to me, you're supposed to accept her choices right and so to me you're right like you can't fix your sister you can't fix them you know um you can try to be there for them i think with limitations but you have gone so you know like they're inviting you to therapy i mean that'll that a lot. Yeah.
And as Abby said,

Abby,

and for both of them,

and,

and I know like this is,

you know,

I'm not going to just like add on another question.

That's not how it works,

but it's also like,

it's been so destructive to my,

my relationship with my boyfriend.

We,

we lived together.

We've lived together for a long time.

You know,

he knows everything.

I like,

you know,

I tell like,

and he is just such a,

you know,

more of like a, you know, Nick file kind of, you know, just kind of like, you know, he sees it as it is without the, um, like he, well, it's not his twin. So he's not gonna, you know, so his just like his, you know, it's all I can do to keep him from when she comes over, like in the middle of the night to cry in my arms.
It's, he's like, it's all he can do to just be like twin. Like, what the hell like what are you doing this is all like my you know my partner thinks about lives breathes like works leaves work to talk to you like takes a like a call from you when we're on you know a valentine's day like or when we're on a trip and you know yeah yeah like you gotta stop that yeah it's toxic it's unhealthy it not productive.
And that's a you problem. 100%.
Are you in therapy? That's actually really interesting that you asked that because I've done therapy. I'm not currently in therapy.
I'm changing careers. I'm going to mental health, a clinical mental health counseling graduate school program in the fall.
which i think is um yeah so i'm it's just really intrigued i'm i'm fascinated by it i think like could be something i could be good at there but i potentially but like right now like this is ironic it's ironic because i'm not in therapy currently i just always like oh it didn't work in the first few months i'm out of here well maybe you just need to find you listen to a lot maybe you need to find a different therapist, you know, like maybe, you know, it's like doctors are different. Mechanics are different.
You don't just start with one, give it a couple of shots and then quit if it doesn't like help. But clearly you have a lot to unpack, you know, like, you know, and also therapy isn't the end all be all.
I do think sometimes people can over-therapize themselves. I think sometimes need like therapy sometimes you might need to take breaks from it you know maybe you need to find a new gym so to speak uh a new trainer you know a new therapist you know like it's not like oh there oh are you know i'm not saying are you in therapy as if like it's the end-all be-all but clearly you have a lot to unpack and work through and discuss and it's affecting you in your life and your relationships and you're not seeing the forest through the trees.
You can't even set healthy boundaries with your sister, let alone enforce them. And it's affecting your life.
Right. You know? Yeah.
I mean, without like breaking it down and, you know, giving you some sort of fake therapy session, like, yeah, the short answer is you need to make some drastic changes in your life when it comes to your relationship with your sister and your brother-in-law. If I were you, I would kind of cut it off.
I would, you know, reach out to both of your sister and brother-in-law and say, I can't keep doing this. I can't be your guys' therapist.
And you can let your brother-in-law know, like, listen, like I'm saying the same thing to her. I'm not trying to leave you on an island.
And you can give him your last bit of advice that you might have, which is like, I don't know, like he needs to be open to leaving her. In my opinion, the fact that she still works with this until she stops working with this guy, it's never going to be over.
Oh my gosh. I'm so actually amazed that you just said that because that's like one of the biggest things.
And I've been like, so for, for weeks I like no because she's been like she's about to get tenure it's kind of like an important school um you know whatever whatever and she and she'll just get into a panic like a hysteria like no no no i just could like you know i've worked so hard to be here and my brother-in-law is just like i mean and he was at first he was just like i mean maybe you can but now since it so like their their reconciliation has gone just about as bad as it could go because he's she's sketchy she's sketchy sketchy but um um how old is your brother-in-law a few years older he's like three years older so i think he's like you know 37 38 something like that all right well he's not that old yet so if i yeah if i'm his friend a cat he's like tall super educated hilarious like i love spending time if i'm uh if i'm his friend i would love to find yeah if i'm his friend i'm telling him to see you know listen like people sadly this shit happens relationships have to deal with it like there's literally a million different types of affairs from emotional to physical and everything in between and like you know like listen like sadly it is a reality that relationships have to face but like when it comes to this aspect of it now that like the cat's out of the bag and the person knows it's happened and they're like on the fence between like do i work through this and forgive and yada yada but your sister currently is just like what she's doing to him is like honestly to me like a hundred times worse than the initial act itself now she's just fucking torturing this guy he agrees you know and like what she's doing is honestly kind of evil and bullshit uh the the affair partner um who i've met is he could have been anybody i mean my sister has never i mean like i i always tell her i was like so you literally just decided to throw your life away and fall in love with almost like the first man that you've ever been any kind of close with at all in any capacity he is a 57 he is a i've met him he's a bar fly it doesn't it doesn't matter he's um been divorced many times he is um i mean he's he's kind of like the king of the of the bar you know that kind, that kind of charisma. Like everyone likes to have a laugh with him.

We went,

I,

he drove me somewhere once we were all going to a wedding and this,

the affair partner wasn't going to the wedding,

but,

and in like the backseat,

there were like,

just like empty beer cans from the night before.

It doesn't matter.

I don't care.

I don't care.

I don't. He's not even good.
I don't care. It doesn't matter.
I don't care. Okay.
I don't. He's not even good.
Yeah, I don't care. It doesn't matter.
Does it? I'm sorry. But look at that.
Who cares? What if he was? First of all, I know he's not a great guy given the role he's playing in this relationship. Doesn't mean he's not a bad guy.
But does it matter? It doesn't matter. Let's say he was a Harvard grad and had zillions of dollars and he was slightly better looking than your brother-in-law does it just does it change anything would you be like oh well i guess he's a bit of a catch so now i understand your choices sister what would change is that i wouldn't keep coming to like this weird realization about my sister which is like it doesn't matter who it was this isn't even real it's all about you and you're like you know you're it doesn't he doesn't need a piece of shit to know that he loves feeling wanted by someone and that was and that's like and that's how shallow it is and it was enough to throw somebody she's been with towards for since we were 19 away like that's scary it wasn't even like i like there's no part of me that believes that this was love it was about once again like you're you're you know clearly i mean it's your twin sister so i get it but this is a this how toxic this has become for you and you're not even capable of giving good advice you're you're trying to understand it it's affected you it's changed how you see things you're so close to your sister like you just you're trying to justify it for your sister in a weird way.
Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Like, I think you just have to over, you have to simplify this, not, not make it more complicated, but like you are so fucking caught up in this that you are just so like, it's, it's become your whole identity. Damn, Nick, you saying that makes so much, that man, that seems really true.
And that had not occurred to me until right now. Damn.
Okay. Well, that's so lame.
I'm so lame. It's not lame.
It's understandable. Anyone listening, you don't have to be a twin.
We've all heard the stories about connections with twins, right? No, you don't have to be a twin to like, understand that this must be a very painful and difficult situation for you, that you have the absolute best intentions, but like you need to recognize whether it's for me or a therapist or a friend, that's kind of like here to, to, it's like grabbed you by the shoulders a little bit and, and kind of shake you a little bit and say, you got to stop. You can't save your sister and you can't save your relationship with your sister on your own.
I don't care that you guys are twins. Whether it's a brother, a sister dynamic, sister, sister, parent, child relationship, you can only do 100% of your half to make this relationship work.
And your sister is responsible for her half. And right now you're trying to do all of yours and most of hers because she's this broken bird who blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And like, that's just like, you're not doing you or your sister or that relationship any good because you can't make up for the lack of work that the other person needs to do. And this is just my humble opinion.
This is not medical. I don't know.
Maybe there's someone smarter than me that's going to say I'm wrong. But I just don't think there's exceptions to that rule in terms of temporarily, sure.
Like, listen, we all have to be there for people. Sometimes we have to step up and people are down.
When our partners get sick, we do more chores around the house. When Natalie's not Nally's not feeling well, you know, I try to step up and vice versa.
But for extended periods of time, like that's not sustainable. Right.
And right now you are trying to like do all the work for your, hell, you're doing the work for her marriage, let alone your relationship with her. I mean, that's right.
And you got to stop. You just have to stop.
And like this won't get any better until you finally set some healthy boundaries with your sister for your relationship and your brother-in-law and just stop. Not let your sister come over in the middle of the night, not let her call, stop taking her calls.
You can give her the heads up. Things are going to drastically change.
And then you have to follow through and enforce that and hope that this is a wake-up call and that losing her sister will be maybe a way for her to change. I doubt she sees it right away.
I'm sure she'll kick and scream and throw a fit and say a bunch of mean things that hurt your feelings. But she is just going to have to work through it because this is clearly some kind of like childhood temper tantrum.
And listen, I empathize with her. She chose, you had a different path.
You experienced life in your twenties and she got hitched up and she played house all through her twenties. And it probably was fun and good.
And like, she felt that probably there were times in her relationship with her now husband where she felt like she was the most in love person from her high school. And that while her sister was struggling with her relationships, she was in love and happy.
And you've heard me make jokes to all the people who are like calling in and, you know, all my friends are in love and dating. And I'm like, well, half of them will be divorced in five years anyways.
And now your sister, you know what I'm saying? And now the dynamic has changed, but now your sister is blaming her decisions in the past to justify her decisions in the present and And you are complicit. You are an accomplice.
You're like the person who like, it's as if, let's say sweet boy Justin, who's sitting right here, came up to me, called me up. He's like, Nick, there's this bank I want to rob.
Have all the plans. I know I'm going to do it.
I'm like, Justin, I don't know if that's a really good idea. I think that's kind of bad.
It's also illegal. You get in a lot of trouble.
And I keep saying the same thing. I never agree to it.
I never condone it. But I show up to the bank with him.
And while he's robbing the bank, I'm like, are you sure you want to do this? I don't think you should do this. And he brings the bag out, puts the cash in the bag.
And all the while, I'm like, I think you should not do this, man. And then like, you know what I'm saying? Like you're still, you would still get arrested.
I would still get arrested. You know, I'm an accomplice.
And that's literally what you're doing with your sister. It's like, you're just along for the ride.
Like you're like the angel on her shoulder. That's like kind of allowing her, not allowing her, but you're not really stopping her.
You're just like, I don't know if you should do that. Like, I think that's wrong's wrong but like you're showing up to the scene of the crime and hanging out with this guy getting to know this other fucking guy for whatever reason you're just doing crazy shit that you shouldn't be doing that all of that is such a i mean like yes that is that's that's also true and what you just said right now about that even getting to know the other guy like kind of like doing in every like cell of my body like implicitly explicitly like condoning everything and at this point now it's been so long what you said to me like a few minutes ago about like making it my thing to be doing this like that really hit me like a ton of bricks just now i mean listen it's something to do like it's my like like like once this is over i'm so involved and it's been so long and it's been changing but it's always fucking terrible like i like i'm gonna have to like pay attention to my boyfriend get a hobby like you know i would get a therapist i would get a therapist and unpack this in therapy because you can't unpack it with your boyfriend over and over you're going to exhaust him and you're going to exhaust your friends and quite honestly sometimes that's what a therapist is for you pay a stranger who like knows who's like met who's trained in this stuff to kind of hear you out let you vent so that you don't like cannibalize your meaningful relationships with shit that's just like toxic and and and room and you ruminate and you say over and over and you don't realize how much of a broken record you sound like and just how animated you get when you talk about this.
Listen, you're invested, you're useful, you're necessary, you're needed. These are all things that as human beings we crave in any type of relationship.
And the problem sometimes, as is the case in your relationship, they manifest in forms of like toxicity. And while even though like the feeling of being needed and necessary are inherently good feelings, they're coming out in ways that aren't really healthy.
And yet you're you're in and that's what's motivating you to like stay in it. Right.
But you have to see that you have to rise above it. You kind of have to have an outside body of experience and see what you're doing, recognize it, and not justify your choices by how you feel in the moment, right? Because that's what we do, right? I'm glad that as a society, we've been more mindful about what we say and do and how it affects other people's feelings and things like that.
But we have gone too many steps further and using all of our feelings as a way to justify choices, period. And as long as it makes us feel good and doesn't cause us to quote unquote hurt other people, somehow that's a good thing.
And that's just not reality as in case by like your situation now, because you have these feelings of feeling needed and feeling necessary and feeling like you're helping. These are all good things, but yet you're not helping.
And it's, again, like it's a very toxic situation and you've been pulled into the toxic situation and you can't get out of this. And so instead of continuing to feel needed, necessary, and helpful, you simply just need to stop.
And you need to set that boundary, enforce that boundary, and let your sister work her shit out. and you can be there for her, but being there for her needs to change and needs to be like, yeah, I mean, listen, if you're like, honestly, if your life's on the line or whatever, I'm not going to be there for you in the way that used to me being there for you.
I'm not going to listen to your bullshit. I'm not going to be your alias.
I'm not going to be your partner in crime. I'm not going to be there while you choose to make these destructive choices.
And you can be mad at me, but we're not 19 anymore. I'm not 23.
And just because you had my back in this way five years ago, I'm not going to have your back in this way now because we were wrong for doing that. And it's not leading to healthy choices.
Our life right now is worse because of this situation. Our life around us, my relationship with my boyfriend, your relationship with your husband, it's all worse because of this toxic situation and I refuse to be brought down with it.
That is also true and I just keep like, you really did like, I don't know. I feel like I got kind of bowled over before thinking about the me of everything, but like the, like when this, when I do that, when I tell you, when I do what, what we, you and I are agreeing that I should do, there's going to be a big emptiness that I'm going to have to fill with like my own shit.
And that man man i've talked about this so much with so many people and like that i don't know i don't think i really became super cognizant of that being some like fear of mine until until today so um well maybe there's a little bit of a breakthrough but like you know listen man it's a it's gonna be a tough journey yeah It will be harder before it's easier. But, you know, you got to think of, you got to think of, you know, she, the goodness, like, this is your sister, right? So I don't know, I don't know how long both of you have on this earth, but like, let's just assume it's a bit, you know, you're both really young and you have to think about your life together, not what your life is next week with your sister.
you got to think about like life 10 years from now, because maybe your brother-in-law will be in it. Maybe he won't, but she'll still be your twin sister.
If you have, I bet you'd be willing to sacrifice a handful of months or even years, if that meant that you and your sister could be closer than ever for the rest of your lives. But she needs to figure her shit out, you know? And you have to stop being her accomplice.
This is really helpful. Yeah, you're the only person I've spoken about this who wasn't at least somehow like laterally involved, like either in like my life or hers.
So like that was, I think, an important thing for me and thinking about it. If I were you, I would start looking for a therapist.
I would give it a shot and be picky, right? Like, you know, it might take you a while before you find a really good therapist. In the meantime, even a bad therapist will hear you out and let you just unload on them instead of unloading on your boyfriend, unloading with your sister or some other friend, and hopefully you'll get some good advice.
but you need to know regardless of what your therapist, your next therapist, good or bad, or how you connect with them that like, you know,

you don't need a therapist to know that you probably need to stop this type of behavior and you need to distance yourself from this toxic situation and you need to set some healthy boundaries with your sister and setting healthy boundaries with anyone is never a bad thing, even though, again, like I always say, like I don't care if it's your twin sister or a coworker, setting a boundary with someone is limiting their access to you. And you usually do that when their access to you has become toxic.
And no one likes a boundary set for themselves because whatever they're getting from you, they like it and they want more of it. And that's why you feel compelled to set a boundary because they now now expect it they are they feel entitled to it

and that's why usually we have to set boundaries and say no you can't have this anymore and no one in the history of the world has you you know has been like oh yeah okay cool i'll start yeah i don't know maybe sometimes people realize they've been they've been getting like something for free for too long and they're just waiting for for someone to like send the receipts but like usually it doesn't happen that way yeah well damn thank you thank you so much yeah anytime this was actually this was this was big for me i thought the conversation was going to go such a different way and it was going to be more just like me dishing about my sister and like all the nuances of like their torrid affair and you didn't i was like not what you wanted and this was actually actually what I needed. I can't help your sister.
She's not here. Yeah.
Oh, I know. I know.
I really, I really appreciate you, Nick. And that, thank you so much for talking to me.
My pleasure. And certainly like, obviously, you know, from an entertainment standpoint, fascinating story.
We are, we're very invested, but like, you know, very, very relatable. And we appreciate you opening up.
Would certainly love an update. Now, I don't want an update so that you can talk about it, but if there is a real update and some meaningful change, we would love to hear about it because obviously, whether it's a twin sister or a sibling, shit like this is far more common than people want to acknowledge or realize, and there's always something we can learn from it.
So if you make some healthy progress one way or the other, whether it's jumping into therapy, setting a boundary with your sister, and again, fully expect this to get worse before it gets better in terms of your closeness with your sister or your brother-in-law might feel a certain way when you cut him off too. Right.
And I would just say to your brother, like, listen, your brother-in-law, I would say, listen, I love you. I hope you know that.
I, I would love for you guys to be together forever, but you need to start worrying about yourself because right now, just so you know, I'm, I'm kind of in some ways changing my relationship with my sister because right now, while I still love her and I think she's a great person and I see the good in her and I'm never going to abandon her. She is not a healthy person right now.
And she's a dangerous person to be emotionally invested in and certainly work through it. But my last bit of advice for you is I don't know if this is it for you because right now she's making choices for herself and no one else.
Right. Right.
But you need to stop. After that, you need to stop.
You need to kind of have your, a goodbye call with both of them. And then you need to like enforce that boundary and you can let them know.
Like, I just, I can't, I'm not going to fix this. I can't fix this.
And all it's done is brought me into your situation. I've tried, but it's now affecting, and you can be a little more honest with your brother-in-law about like, she's, you know, I don't trust her right now.
I don't think you should either. And that's going to feel like a violation from your sister.
That is the actual truth. And you're right when I say I do love him and I do love her.
And I, and like that, and that is true. And you can tell, I mean, how else do you want to be? You can tell your sister that you said that to him.
I wouldn't lie to anyone. Stop, you know, stop playing both sides.
Just be fucking honest. Say the same thing to both of them and then say goodbye.
Not like real goodbye, but you know what I'm saying. Well, my boyfriend would be, you know, if he listens to this, he's going to be skipping for joy because it's been my preoccupation for a while.
Well, maybe thank your boyfriend for saying some of the same things I've probably said. And like, you're just willing to listen to me because I'm some third party who's not invested.
So like maybe give him some acknowledgement and like, it may be a little bit of like, Hey, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Because you have obviously alienated yourself and your relationship and the sake of being there for your sister. Correct.
So, all right. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you so much.

My pleasure.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

It obviously sucks, but like you have a lot of control that you don't feel like you have.

And I think that's needs to be this, you know, your lasting takeaway of this.

And so stop being a victim in the situation. It's a shitty situation.

I understand that.

You wish you could fix it on your own.

You can't, but you still have a lot of control in a situation that you've honestly probably made more worse than better. I think you might be right.
All right. Well, thanks, Nick.
All right. Take care.
Truly. All right.
All right. Bye-bye.
Bye, guys. I'm going to set the stage for you.
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How's it going? Hi, my name's Carly. I'm 26 years old, I wanted to know if the D1 quarterback athlete I was talking to was manipulating me or am I just being dramatic? Probably a little bit of both.
Tell me what's going on. Okay.
So we started talking in December. He used to play for the school that I went to.
So where I went to school and where I live now is about an hour apart. So I go back there a lot, games, all that other kind of stuff.
We met, just hit it off. He's 22, just to give.
So he's like in his last year, 26. So yeah.
So he's like in his last year, like kind of like grad moment, trying to make it type of deal. So he's 22 and we got connected through Snapchat, you know, you let me get your Snapchat, which immediately should have been like, whatever.
But he was just like, what's your Snapchat? And I was like, okay, cool. Like we were at the bars.
It wasn't a big deal. That's how we started talking.
We talked for a while. And then I had to go back up to that school to see a friend, went there, hung out with him.
We did like hang out for the whole day pretty much. And then we ended up like hooking up.
Um, but after that it was, and I knew that I wasn't like trying to get into anything serious or anything like that. But after that, we started talking a lot more consistently, like chatting all day, every day.
And mind you, this is like important, an important part of the story. Our messaging was through Snapchat at this time.
He had asked for my number, but when we were talking like the, Hey, good mornings. Hey, everything.
It was through Snapchat. It wasn't pictures, but it was like through the chat function.
So like we weren't using Snapchat as what Snapchat was really used for here and there, we would send like pictures of like like whatever but it was mostly used for the texting function even though he had my number whatever but he would call me through regular number facetime through our regular phone numbers but our like messaging was through snapchat okay well let me pause you for a second uh i got two questions well one statement yes and then two questions my statement is it's not whatever okay and then my first question is at this point try to bring yourself back in your memory but at this point what was your like intentions with this guy what what did you think was realistic what was going on in your head like what were you pursuing and two my second question is like Why do you think he was texting you on snapchat versus calling you on your phone did you say why yeah like why like you're like oh whatever as if like it's some sort of like you know either you're acting like it's a coincidence or he put no thought into it whatsoever and it just happens to be what he's doing it's like it doesn't really mean anything when you say you whatever it's like this loaded statement of all these like assumptions and projections and i'm asking you like why why do you think he was snapchatting you yeah fair so one my intentions at first it was just like in my eyes it was like oh like duh like it's he's an athlete like i have no expectation it was more fun he was really cool we hit it off because he's like you're like a i don't give a fuck kind of girl like you're, like, duh, like, he's an athlete. Like, I have no expectation.
It was more fun. He was really cool.
We hit it off because he's like, you're like, I don't give a fuck kind of girl. Like, you're older.
Like, you don't like, he made it seem like all these girls were obsessed with him. And I was the only one that was kind of like, yeah, like, you're cool.
Like, we'll hang out. But I never was like, I never gave him like, what do you mean? I was like, what do you mean? He made it seem, yeah, he would say like, oh, like, I'm not used to like girls, like not like snap, like talking to me right away or answering my calls or like begging to hang out.
Like you're not like that. You have like your own stuff going on.
So he said that I'm saying today, as of today, like you're, you're saying it as if he was manipulating or being insincere or lying. Are you, is that how you feel today in this moment about those things he said? No.
At that time, I really believed it. And then fast forward everything, we were talking a lot, hanging out a lot.
And then he got moved to a different team. So it all changed.
He got moved, transferred to a different team, all of that. And our conversation died down a little bit.
for a long time for like two three months he was begging to hang out seeing me like all that kind of stuff sure and then he moved he moved there and again with the snapchat thing to know you guys are talking to each other the most this sounds so stupid as a 26 year old saying this i know that now um you have like a heart, like a streak or something or whatever, you know? Yeah. That shows that we both talk to each other the most.
Sure. Well, we had a conversation because, you know, he moved and all of that and we weren't talking as much.
And I was like, I knew that it wasn't really going anywhere, but just because of who he is, he would mention that, you know, all these girls that he like used to talk to and blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I was like, okay, cool.
Like, obviously like you're really busy. You're going through a lot.
You're, you just transferred to a new team and you know, that's totally cool. There just doesn't really seem like there's like kind of a place for us right now.
And I was okay with that at the time. I knew what I was getting into before I got into it.
I like have like, had like a crush on him, but I wasn't, I didn't know him enough to be like, I want to date you. I want to like make this something more.
And in my head, I also knew even if I wanted that him being 22, him, just kind of the ego that he has recognizing that. And almost that's okay.
Like you're 22, you're an athlete. You have a lot of, you know, availability to you.
I was like, I just don't, even if I wanted to date you, I knew what I was doing, I knew that where it was going. Okay.
So I wasn't trying to fight for the relationship. I wasn't like, Hey, I really like you.
I'd like to be exclusive. Like, because I knew even if I put that, I just, I'm 26.
I know at this point where that was going to go. Okay.
So I just said, Hey, you know, you seem really busy because like I said, we were, everything was consistent for a while until he moved four hours away to a new team. And I was like, you're really, and he kept saying, I'm really busy.
I'm really busy. And in my head, I'm like, no one's ever that busy.
And then he kept saying, well, you've never talked to an athlete before, so you don't know what it's like. When I say I'm busy, it's not just a regular guy.
I'm busy. It's I have all these practices I have.
And then when I get home, I don't always want to talk to someone. So like you say they're excuses, but they're not excuses.
And in my head, I'm like, I feel like they're still excuses because like you didn't have two seconds to like call. And like, I'm not trying to be needy.
I wasn't trying to like tell him what to do. But in my head, when someone wants to talk to you, they will, even if it's a little, Hey, I had a really busy day.
I'd love to call you later. Or I'll talk to you tomorrow.
I've had a really busy day. It's just a little bit of communication goes a long way, but in his head, it's like, he wants to do it his way.
So I tried to like, and, and that was fine. If he wasn't getting what I was saying, and I'm not going to like argue with someone to make someone call me or text me.
So I was just like, Hey, no big deal. You seem really busy.
Um, you have a lot going on. Um, I just think that it's best if like we go our own ways.
And like, he immediately responded and he was like, well, I didn't see that coming. Like they're not excuses.
Like you keep saying they're excuses and they're not sure. So from there, I was like, okay, maybe you're, maybe you're being genuine.
Like, I don't know. I've never talked to an athlete before, so I have no idea exactly how rigorous your schedule are.
You are there. You seem busy.
He's in, he goes to a really good school for football. So like, I felt like I, maybe I was wrong.
So that happened. And then still there were signs and there was feelings in me that was like, I feel like he's talking to someone else because the communication slows down.
You don't ask to hang out for a month. Like all these little signs that kind of, I knew in my gut weren't just I'm busy.
And then I kind of let it go. I was just like, I'm just going to see how things go.
I'm not going to like bother him like much. I'm just going to let like play it out.
That's when I think the text that I sent in, we, the Snapchat heart disappeared, which means he was talking to someone way more than he was talking to me. And in my head, I was like, boom, okay.
Everything that I knew is kind of clicking together. And that's when the texts come in about him saying, you know, how dare a 26 year old act like this.
I sent you a thousand dollars for Valentine's day. I sent you flowers, like all of these things.
Like I always send you money when you go out to go eat. Like I always like try to give you these little things to show you that like, I still like fuck with you.
And so he just kept saying, I can't believe you're ending this over a Snapchat heart, like a Snapchat heart. You really cared that much about a Snapchat heart.
And I'm like, it's not about the Snapchat heart. That was just like the cherry on top of what I already knew.
And he just kept saying over and over in the text messages. And I kind of kept just saying, it's not about the heart.
I wasn't going on and on. I was just saying, it's not about the heart.
And he was like, you're crazy that you're a 26 year old and you're acting like this. You know, you're being crazy right now.
You know that you're overreacting, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, does he really think this is about a Snapchat hurt? Like it's not, it's just confirming what I knew.
Um, and then fast forward where we are today. I let, I, he kind of blew up my phone a little bit about it.
And I was like, he's not getting it. This is not about the Snapchat hurt.
I'm not going to keep going back and forth the conversation to try to tell you it's not about a Snapchat hurt. You know, it's not.
And then I let two days go by. I didn't respond to his texts.
He stopped texting me. He stopped calling me because he was trying to, and that all happened.
And I just called him because I was like, in my head, I was, it was kind of my ego, but I was like, I don't want him to think that I'm immature. And I ended this over a Snapchat heart.
Like I want him to know why I was like over it. And then I called him and he was like, you know, you were being ridiculous.
It's not about the Snapchat card. I am going through a lot.
Like, I really care about you. I really like want to like see where things go.
I see a future with you and stuff. Like, you're really cool.
Like you're someone I want to talk to. It's just, I hate the team that I've transferred to.
I don't fuck with anybody here. Everyone sucks.
I'm going through a lot with my family, like everything in my life. It just feels like it's going on and on.
And then like you, and then you were like my piece of things. Like I felt like we didn't have any issues.
And then randomly you just like blew up on me about this Snapchat heart and freaking out about this stuff. And then basically he wanted me to recognize that I was being dramatic about the heart and about everything.
And he even

said, Oh, like you wanted that YSL purse. Like I wouldn't even have gotten that for a girlfriend.

I was going to give you the $800 because he had given me a thousand dollars for Valentine's day,

just cause, and the YSL purse that I wanted is like $1,800. And he was like, well, I was going

to give you the $800 more. And then you pulled that bullshit on me.
So, but you're working your

way. And obviously we've been talking since then.
He was like, but you're working your way and obviously we've been talking since then he was like but you're working your way up like you're like what do you think about that statement which one that like you're any of them but some of the shit you've told me he said to you like it just made me feel like like now you're i guess you know it's like your event you know you're telling your story but you're also like you clearly have told the story to a lot of people uh you're you know um yeah yeah and i yeah i hear it yeah obviously that's what we with friends do but like now you're telling me this story right and you're just kind of like now you're on a roll you know and now you're just like just venting and just putting it out there but like when you do you hear yourself say the things that he says to you like yeah and part of me we have a very joking relationship so part of me was like is he like just like oh like don't worry like you're you're getting back there like but in my head i feel like he genuinely thinks that like i was being dramatic do you think he's joking do you think he's joking do you think these are jokes not like fully but i think that if that if I expressed that I was upset about it, I feel like if

I express it.

Are you, let me ask you this.

Are you joking with him when you're asking for clarity about this heart or why he's texting

you only on Snapchat or just some of his, like some of his behaviors that you don't

fully understand?

Are you joking when you bring it to his attention?

No.

Okay.

So like, what makes you think he is joking in response?

Because sometimes it's been a pattern when like i bring something up that bothers me you know i was joking like you know do you think that's serious and do you think that's truthful or do you think that's him like a six-year-old trying to get out of trouble i i can't tell because like he does seem very like as a 22 year old he does seem like immature in that

way like he just seems very like he just wants to like let it pass like it's not that big of a deal

he says that a lot it's really not that big all right so i want to ask you the same question

what is your intention with this guy today i asked you that question what your intention was when you

first started talking with him but like what are you trying to figure out and to what end right like

are you trying to figure out whether this is a guy you should pursue in a relationship? Are you trying to figure out whether you're right? Yeah. You know, like what, what are you trying to figure out here? Yeah.
So I guess like whether it's worth still pursuing or not, because since then we had that conversation, he was like, you're right. Like you're right.
In the fact that like, I need to make a different effort. Like I, like things could be different.
So now since then we had that conversation he was like you're right like you're right in the fact that like I need to make a different effort like I like things could be different so now since then we had that conversation we have ditched snapchat it's gone um he texts me in the morning you know when he wakes up for workouts good morning with a heart and then we don't really talk much during the day and then he calls me every night and like we talk we just catch up and stuff and it seems like things have moved in a better direction, but I guess it still doesn't address just the way that he, you know, responded to the situation and me being upset and how to figure out when someone is too busy or like, and maybe that's a conversation to have with him. Like, one, is this worth pursuing because you're genuine about, Hey, you're busy.
You really do care about me. But you have to work around my schedule.

Or is it you are one of the many and I'm just kind of, you know.

How long have you been fucking with this guy, hanging out with this guy for?

Since like December, like mid-December before the holidays.

It's been like four months, right?

And in those four months of communicating with him, have you ever felt in a place of

peace or on the same page with him where you have like, and describe that time and for how long? Yeah. So, yeah.
So it was literally up until probably, um, Valentine's day. So when he was like an hour away, you know, we would be pretty much talking all day long.
He would FaceTime me, um, you know, catch me up on his day. He like everything like that.
We would make plans to hang out, you know, he was an hour. So you'd be like, Hey, come up here.
Like we can, you know, you stay for the weekend and that would happen pretty much every weekend or every other weekend. It was very consistent.
Did you know where, did you know exactly where he stood in terms of how he felt about you or what his intentions were or whether he was talking or not talking to other women um no your relationship status i'm trying i'm gonna i didn't ask about like that part because it didn't matter to me at that point because i was still talking to people a little bit and the reason why this bothered me so much is because he would make sly comments because we would kind of joke about like our hoes, but like not really having hoes. And he'd be like, well, I would make you my girlfriend or I would do this if you weren't like fucking around with I'm not fucking around like talking to these guys.
Like, how would that make me seem as a guy if I'm going to like do all these things for you if you're still talking to other people? So then in my head, I said, okay, I'll cut them off then. It wasn't a big deal.
I was like, okay, I like you the most. I'll cut them off.
And he was like, and that was it. I never said anything to him.
Do you think you're about equal to your peers, your age, or do you think you're more or less mature than other 26 year old women you hang out with? I would say in the middle. I definitely have way more immature friends, but I do have friends that are a little bit more mature.
That's an honest, honest. And yeah.
And what about like, do you think guys in general are more mature, less mature, way less, way less. Okay.
Yeah. So, and that might be because of the age range.
Like I haven't really talked to anyone that's older than me. A lot of the guys that I've dated and talked to are younger than me, but also I live in a city, um, in the South that is very girl dominated.
So the guys here are, um, the guys have a lot of options compared to the girls, um, which is why, you know, I would spend a lot of my time going, you know, up to the city of the school that I went to, because it's a really big football city. Like, um, and then when I go home, but I never really focused on, um, like, I'm not like online dating or anything like that.
Um, but yeah, I feel like a lot of the guys are immature. I haven't really, yeah, in my experience.

Okay. Well, listen, here's the thing when it comes to your, in your predicament, you have

this kind of weird dynamic as I see it, right? And this is just my opinion, but like, listen,

like kind of what I was getting at, certainly there's exceptions to every rule, but in general,

yeah. Like, especially in your twenties, I think twenties where you see the biggest difference,

right? Like, I guess my point is like all teenagers are, I mean, what do you expect from teenagers? They're all like a level of immature and even the mature ones like lack life experience in perspective, right? Right. As we get older, right? 40s, 50s, 60s, like age becomes far less relative.
And it's really just more about lived experiences and things like that. 30s is a crapshoot.
It really is dependent on people's lives leading up to that. But for the most part, 20s, there's just like a huge difference between people in their 20s, between maturity and lack of immaturity.
A lot has to do with experiences in your early 20s versus a lack of experience and things like that. But also then there's this truth that regardless of how much of your lived experiences you have, like generally speaking, most 40 year olds have more perspective than most 20 year olds, even the immature ones, right? Who are 40 and you, you, right.
So there's that, right. And as a woman who generally speaking are developing more emotionally and more mature than men, you have a four year age gap with the guy you're hanging out with, except that this guy is a D d1 athlete and i think that is something for you to consider because you have this weird dynamic and like this is why i think it might be so confusing for you because when you first met right you you both kind of came in with a bit of a of power in this relationship yeah you came into this as a a woman who's four years older than him who acted a little bit different than a lot of the women his age that were like he was, quote unquote, as he said, fucking with.
Right. He came in as the D1 athlete of the school and the big swinging dick and like the most, you know, the most popular person in a group of popular people as the quarterback.
And he has been catered to and treated a certain way and yada, yada, yada. And, you know, he's probably big, tall tall handsome and whatever and like he walks in a room the the he gets a lot of attention that gives him power that makes him feel confident etc etc and so you have these two opposing forces of of like betting heads so when he says things like oh you know you're different than most girls and things like that it's like i mean it might feel i'm sure it feels good in the moment your ego ego's a little stroked, but like, it's all bullshit, right? I mean, what does that really mean? I think, you know, we get caught up in it in the, in the heat of the moment, but you know, when you're telling the story and I'm listening, I'm just like, okay, yeah.
Like this is, it sounds like this, a very, it's exactly what I would expect from a 22 year old college quarterback and a dating an attractive 26 year old woman. You know, I these types of conversations to happen right and when i asked you know how long has this been going on for and how confident secure how you felt and you're like oh no i've definitely felt confident secure and you know i don't know it's just debatable but i honestly think what it sounds like to me is that purple heart or whatever heart that snapchat gave you was like the the the bedrock of how of your security in this relationship it was a tangible thing that like regardless of what he told you you know at least on snapchat he talked to you the most and then that changed and that obviously changed the dynamic now he's just spinning his wheels and trying to like i don't know and the truth is your question was like is he manipulating me or am i being dramatic and i said maybe a little bit of both and i don't maybe it's, maybe it's also at the same time, maybe neither.
I don't know. He's probably lying to you.
And yeah, he's probably talking to other women, but also there's an element of like, I'm sure there's some sincerity from him when he, you probably are his support system. You probably are there for him in ways that other women or other people in his life haven't or can't be.
And I'm sure you do add value to him in his life. that value that you add makes it feel real makes it feel meaningful for you it makes it feel so you know like it's like there's something there that you're not just some like another chick that he's like you know fucking with or you know sending news to yeah the things he's asking for it's it's different than like for example this again this is that right now i'm watching his dog because he he's like my dog like and i know him because i've hung out with his dog so many times that does not like other people i was like really like does not whatever so he went to a different state to do training for spring break and he was and i was like i'll watch him like no big deal so right now i have him and like when he needs help like he's like i need someone to like clean my house like will you help me you like get on a FaceTime with me? Like try to get someone to help me or like he was with his family the other day.
And he was like, Oh, everyone say hi to my girl. Obviously didn't name me, but it was like, and just like stuff like that.
Or Hey, like you're older. I just feel like just, that's just the way he talks.
Like he always refers to me like as his girl, but not like, like to me and to other people. Like if he's on FaceTime with a friend when I'm at like his like house, but not his girlfriend.
No, but that, that was okay to me because that we, like, I don't think of him as my boyfriend either. What do you think of him as your son? No, I think of him as like someone like I care about that.
I could like see like something, something going somewhere, but I don't think we're at that point like at all and that wasn't what I was why are you taking care of his dog because I care about him and I care about the dog and I knew that it would but if you care about him yeah listen I get what you're saying but you have this you know I would say to you a very unrealistic and very immature approach to this know, and I, and you're not the only one and I'm not trying to be hard on you, but like, you know, and that's also, I think is the problem with, not to sound like the old guy, your generation and dating culture today, where it's like, you guys like act like you can have this, like, you know, you can have your cake and eat it too. Like you act mature by saying things like, well, I'm not ready for that right now.
But like here you are taking care of his dog when you're not even his girlfriend. And like any, at any point, if this guy wanted to whip his dick out and show it to someone else, he can say, you're not my girlfriend and he wouldn't be lying.
He wouldn't, you know, and he's, you know, and it's just like, that's not, it's like you're playing house. You're just doing your version of playing house.
Like, and it's become this kind of weird dynamic where sometimes you act like his girlfriend. Sometimes you act like his mom.
You're his emotional support system. But at any point, he can set a boundary with you being like, whoa, yay, listen.
This is getting too far, too deep. And it's just like, that's not a relationship.
And it's certainly not one that gives you you peace of mind and security and comfort. And like four months in, I'll say this much, four months in with any guy, I don't care the stakes, his job, his profession, your age difference.
You shouldn't be calling into a show like mine with as many questions you have about something that's worth your time. Yeah, I guess I didn't realize.
And if it's this confusing this early. Yeah.
Yeah. You have a lot.
And that's fair. Yeah.
and I think that's worth your time yeah i guess i didn't realize and if it's this confusing this early yeah yeah you have a lot and that's fair talking yeah and i think that's also because of my ego is i'm not the type i'll never ask you to hang out first i get it yeah no i think i have so many questions because it's also my fault because i'm not i'm letting him roll how he wants and playing cool girl and not like freaking out about it which makes it easy on him but it's also like yeah i do have questions like sure are we going to be something are we not like you said you're playing cool girl so like it's an act right like that's okay we all pretend sometimes but clearly like you know and like yeah you seem to be emotionally regulated but like you you playing cool girl is you again justifying your and his choices and this talking yourself through his behavior and the things that don't make sense to you and you talk to yourself mostly and sometimes your friends to work through his confusing behavior so you can get to a place where like it kind of makes sense so that you can keep this shit going yeah my friends were pissed because you really honestly you're in the back of your mind you're like well he's 22 and you keep making excuses for him and he's in his very train like the truth is he is 22 he's an extraordinarily transitional part of his life you know as a d1 quarterback i don't know what school he plays for how big or how good he is but like despite him being at the level that he is it's still an incredible long shot for him to get drafted and even if if he gets drafted, it's even a little bigger of a long shot,

but I have no doubt.

He probably has these dreams and aspirations and he's like aiming big for his life as he should and good for him.

But like for the next,

I don't know,

eight years of his life,

I can promise you this much.

You will not be a top priority.

You just won't.

Right.

And like you have,

you know,

it's not like you're his high school sweetheart where you,

you know,

like a lot of young athletes marry early and like, you know, sometimes it works out. Sometimes it's not't.
You never want to be Russell Wilson's girl. I don't know if you've ever seen that video.
When he got drafted, she's like, I won the lottery. And then before his big deal, he divorced her.
And married CEO. But listen, you don't even have that going for you.
All you are is different and older. And I'm sure him dating an older girl for a D1 quarterback kind of makes sense to him because in a lot of ways, he probably is more mature than some of the girls he's hanging out with because despite him being catered to, despite him being in a lot of ways, very immature for his age.
I've said this, there's this girl who hooked up with this hockey guy a long time ago. And I said a very similar thing to you.
It's like he's both incredibly mature and immature for his age. His immaturity comes from the fact that he's been catered to and put up on a pedestal his whole life.
But his maturity comes from the fact that he's been put in leadership positions, and he's lived certain aspects of his life that have forced him to be immature as a leader of his team. And that comes out in the form of probably very attractive qualities and his ability to talk to you and keep up with you in ways that other 22-year-old men couldn't.
Yeah. And that's what I was telling my friends.
I felt like the people that I was talking to before, one thing he appreciates about me, he's like, I like talking to you because you're very established in your career. If we got got married it wouldn't be like all these other girls who just want to be like wags like you make good money you have your shit together which is like someone I want to marry and for him I felt like because he's so like you said established in his career him acting this way and having all these opportunities it's really attractive to me because a lot of the 22 to 24 year old guys I'm talking to were just getting in their careers They don't know how to manage their money.
They're all these things that are like, and maybe that's the issue of like an age range that I'm going for. But to him, it's like, why are you going for people who are younger than you? I mean, I get like, listen, my, obviously my wife's a lot younger than me, but like, are you going for younger men or like, is that, is that.
I just feel like that's how I, I have a lot of like how I meet these people are like a lot of the guys that I've talked to, like my guy friends are younger. So they'll introduce me to their friends.
Like I've never been on a dating app or any of that. So it's just, I don't know a lot of older people, like no one.
I, yeah, I don't hang out with anyone older than me. So it just seems like whenever I go home.
Yeah. That's the other thing.
It's if I were, I don't have a problem with it. I'd be open to it.
It's just everyone I know is either is usually younger than me. Okay.
That's fair. My friends and their friends.
Yeah. Your circle of influence is younger.
That makes sense. Nothing, you know, you can, but listen, my point is that you can change it.
You can use dating apps. Dating apps is a, is a tool, not a solution.
I'm not saying like get on five dating apps and stop meeting people in life, you know, and I'm not saying stop dating younger guys. I'm just saying like, it's not necessarily a recipe for success.
And like this particular guy, you know, I don't know, like anything's possible, but being for, you know, like, I don't know if this guy makes it to the top of the mountain, if as wild as dreams come true. And he thinks they will.
Great. Yeah.
He's very confident in it. Yeah.
And good for him.

But like he, you know, I don't care if you're the D1 quarterback about to go pro or not.

Or, you know, when I don't know what I was doing when I was 22.

But all I'm saying is saying most 22-year-olds are very wrong about their future.

Right.

You know?

Yeah.

And he could still make it to the pros and still be very wrong about his future and other aspects of his life. Yeah.
You know, all I'm saying is like you. I don't know what you thought about your future at 22, but I'm guessing four years later, you can already point out a lot of things you were wrong about.
Right. That's called life.
You have to live it in whatever. And we don't get to decide when we're 22 what the rest of our lives look like and have it all be exactly what we planned and wanted for ourselves so yeah and so like yeah from here it's like like is it like oh like end it is it like it's because it's so weird because it's like is there something that like he is not gonna it just feels like like end it like if you're looking for you know the type of closure that where it's like you you you both like mutually decide you know and you're on the best possible terms you're like that's that's that's delusion it's just not gonna happen like you very like it's what's clear to me through your story is like it's very clear to him that you he knows why you're in his life you know he knows the value you add right and he doesn't want to get rid of that right and he he has his top priority that is to go pro uh everything else honestly is is much further down the priority list for him that being said you have made yourself very available and very useful to him i'm not saying he's doing it to use you you I'm just saying like, he just has other shit that is a bigger priority and you've made yourself very available and you've been very accommodating and you've offered up some of your services, both as a friend, as a lover, as a mother figure, as a housewife who's taking care of his dog.
And these are all like, make it makes his life easier. So why wouldn't he, why would he say no to that? And then like, you know, you haven't forced him to be in a relationship.
So he will always have this get out of jail free card. And then he'll just argue semantics with you about shit like Snapchat conversations and other girls and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But it's worth it to him because again, what's clear to him is the value you bring. I'm not sure what value he brings into your life other than a great story and a lot of drama and something to talk about with your friends and a potential lottery ticket that like, well, you're not looking to be a wag.
It could pay off in the wrong run where maybe the man you fall in love with just happens to get drafted by the NFL. Yeah, for sure.
It was more like a fun story in the beginning, obviously, because he was the quarterback at the school that I went to. It was all like, I don't talk to athletes.
And so now it's like, I think he's really fun. I think he's really good to talk to.
I'm sure he's swell. Yeah, I'm sure he's swell.
But he just has a lot to work through. He just has a lot to work through.
He's got a lot of other shit going on. That's the hard part.
It's like a good guy. He didn't do anything wrong.
So it feels almost

weird cutting things off with someone who, because he's right. He's not doing anything

wrong. He's not being an asshole.
It's just like, it's clearly to me that it's not going to go

anywhere. And then he'll argue, well, I'm busy on this.
I still want to do my life.

And then it's fine. You're like, listen, you are busy.
I totally get it. But I'm busy too.

And I'm 26 years old and you're like, and that's fine. But what I'm looking for is to invest my quality time and invest my dating.
I don't have time. I don't have a lot of time to date, go on dates, you know, hang out with other men.
I just, I'm busy too. You know, I'm not trying to say I'm busier than you.
Like you have your life to worry about.. I have mine.
But like, I when I do date in the limited time that I have, I want it to be with someone who like has time for me. And you listen, you don't like you shouldn't have you should chase this dream.
You should go and try to be an NFL quarterback. Like you should try to do that.
But like right now, like you don't have time for the thing I'm looking for. And it's not listen listen, that's, and that's, life's not fair.
Maybe you'll teach him a lesson here. He is going to fight for that.
He is going to fight for you. And, and that's not necessarily for you.
You can tell yourself it's for you and it's love. What it is, is for like, you bring a lot of tangible value to his life.
You make his life easier and he is not going to let that go easily. I should have stuck that the first time that i did it like i said like when i said hey no big deal i think you're busy and then he was like wait this shocks me like i didn't think you were going to do this like i should have did this like you can still do it now it's been four months it's like it's like you're not and that was i did that like a month ago or maybe three weeks it was recent and then he's gonna think that to think that I'm, yeah, he's going to be like, you're doing this again.

Who cares what he thinks?

Who cares?

Listen, you don't get to end it and have him be like, you know, what a great girl.

She is honestly, honestly, what a nice, sweet girl.

I wish her nothing but the best.

You're considering rejecting a D1 quarterback.

They don't usually take that shit well.

You know, he's not used to being turned down, not getting the job, not getting not getting you know like you know you you know like he just transferred the transfer portal or whatever now he's with a new team and it's been like he's already struggling with that you know yeah as a quarterback of a team he's he's got a lot of probably learning to do you know and shit like that you know and and all these things and there's a lot of quarterbacks that make the the NFL and never, you anywhere. He can still be the truly best in the world.
He can be one of the top 100 quarterbacks in the world and still be a fucking nobody when it comes to the NFL. And still ultimately have people think of him as a failure.'s fuck that's tough man it's tough in his position and a lot of people like don't have the mental fortitude or the emotional and mental resilience to to get where they need to go because like the problem that he's in is like you know for his whole life he's been so much better than everyone else and that you know he has a lot of fucking growing up to do in that department and like you know i don't know like you can yeah i don't know if that's a job for you um it's probably a job for a lot of people and he's gonna have to go through years of interactions and things like that and like you're just a maid yeah you know you're an emotional support system you're something to do you.
You're, you know, like he is not,

you know,

when he's like,

well,

I don't know,

maybe in the future we get married.

I want to marry someone like you.

Like you,

you're seeing that as like romantic.

Like he's just saying,

yeah,

I don't know what I do know about this guy.

He's not looking to get married anytime soon.

And if he does,

it's a reactive decision to like,

you know,

a panic of losing you again.

Like I'm sure he will fight hard for you,

but make no mistake. It's not necessarily for you.
He's doing, he's fighting for himself. He's like, he doesn't want to lose his assistant.
No, that's so valid. And I think that that was in my head.
I was like, I need to understand that someone can be busy and all the things that he's saying can be true, but that doesn't mean that like, that gives it a right for me to feel like, you know, I feel anxious. I feel all these things.
Just because he is busy and all those things are true, that doesn't mean I have. It's like, oh, it's okay that I'm anxious.
It's okay that I'm this because he's busy. And that's kind of what I was telling myself.
He is busy. I don't understand his schedule.
So it makes sense that I feel this way, but it doesn't mean I want to still feel that way. Yeah.
And that's more honest about your state of mind and your feelings is like, this doesn't guy this guy doesn't bring you peace he makes you anxious he makes you unsettled insecure unsure yeah it definitely keeps you busy and preoccupied you've definitely you have not been bored in the past four months and like no one loves being bored you know like listen i can't make you you know you're gonna have to decide for yourself what you want to do but like you're gonna have to be honest with yourself about like you know to me this is a waste of your time. The most you're going to get to decide for yourself what you want to do, but like, you really are going to have to be honest with yourself about like, you know, to me, this is a waste of your time.
It is the most you're going to get out of this. It's a good story.
So you'll just have to ask yourself, how much is this good story worth to me? Yeah. And even you saying that like with the dog, like he's back at his, at his college now.
He's like, Oh, like, well you keep him for the week so I can get readjusted to my schedule. And I'm like, sitting here, like, readjusted to like, why does this guy have a dog? You know, like,

you know, he, and he shouldn't, he's a puppy and he shouldn't, and he literally cannot manage him

at all. And he's, he's stressed out.
He doesn't like his team. He does.
He like thinks he made

all these bad decisions. So he's like, he's stressing out about that.
And then he's like,

and then he's like, well, you have him for the, like this week. And this is like two weeks.
And

I'm like, I'm happy to help you. But also like, he's not asking's not asking me, is this good with your schedule? When can I get him? He's operating knowing that I can handle it because I handle everything and I have my shit together.
But it's just annoying. He likes you because he finds the other women that are more his age, more obnoxious.
Yeah, for sure. Because you're mature enough to play the game a little bit and you're mature enough to be like, to kind of mask your anxiety and your insecurity.
And they're a little bit more reactive maybe. And they complain to him a little faster and a little sooner than you do.
That's exactly what he said about the other girls. He'd be like, they asked what I want right away and they're so worried about what we're going to be and like you just like don't give a fuck and you're even though inside i give a little bit of a fuck you give a lot of fucks yeah you give as many fucks as they do but i know the reality of this situation yeah but now and now you're lying to yourself but like you yes at at first you were honest for a brief moment about the reality of your situation.
And then henceforth, you were lying to yourself about what he said and what he meant and how sincere he was or yada, yada, yada. Or you took what he said and you manipulated it and changed it into something that you could accept rather than taking it at face value.
And you have used your quote unquote maturity as a way to honestly manipulate yourself. Like you're clearly an intelligent person.
And you know, like, listen, like, I think obviously this is coming from tough love and I'm not trying to be hard on you here, but like your question was, is he manipulating me? Is he gaslighting me? And it's just like, we lie to ourselves way more than we lie to anyone else. I say that all the time.
No one talks to you more than you talk to yourself. And your ego is internal.
And listen, you're lying to yourself constantly every day. We

all are. But it's just easier for you to play the victim here.
It's just easier for you to act like

he's manipulating you. But again, you saw him for who he was in the beginning of this story.

And you have tried to do mental gymnastics to keep it going. And it just, it feels wrong, which is why you reached out to us.
And it's why you're calling because your gut is telling you, this is not what I'm telling myself it is. And why am I still here? And it's only been four months with this guy and it ain't going to get better.
His life has never been more he is definitely he's gonna feel less in a position to give you more he's gonna feel more justified to ask more from you and expect less from him yeah exactly because that's what he said that's literally like like basically without saying it he's like yeah and it's just i yeah from here, you think, but you think having a conversation, like drop off the dog and have the conversation or draw or figure out a way to get him back. Cause we haven't even figured, cause he's four hours away.
When I picked him up, I drove four hours, picked him up, hung out with him for two hours and drove back. I mean, listen, my answer is path of least resistance, right? Obviously, you don't need to be dramatic.

You don't need to blow this guy up today.

He's not your... I mean, listen, my answer is path of least resistance, right? Obviously, you don't need to be dramatic.

You don't need to blow this guy up today.

He's not your boyfriend.

He's not doing anything wrong.

You're in this situation because you made choices and you accepted some of his asks,

right?

So there's no reason to be reactive or whatever.

So figure it out, you know, like take care of the dog. He's obviously, you know, he's going to be reactive or whatever.
So figure it out. Take care of the dog.
He's obviously, he's going to be selfish. He's going to ask a lot from you.
And whatever you feel is reasonable, just placate. Once he has the dog, I don't even think this requires some big sit down.
You're not, again, you're not his girlfriend. You're not his mom.
You're not his therapist. You don't owe him anything.
He anything he's gonna act like you do but you can just simply just it can be a casual phone conversation you know it can be like listen i it's like i i have a lot going on too and i just i can't be taking care of your dog and like you're just not in interest you're not in a position to be a boyfriend right now even if you wanted to be my boyfriend i know that you you have too much other going on and honestly you would be a fool for you to like bring a girlfriend into your life but like i i am 26 years old i am looking for someone in my life and like you're just not it right now you know and it makes me sad i think you're a great guy you know but like this is yeah is there a good way to respond because i know how he's gonna respond he's just like you're doing this again i told you that i would try harder i told you things would be different i told you is Is there a good way to respond? Cause I know how he's going to respond. He's just like, you're doing this again.
I told you that I would try harder. I told you things would be different.
I told you, is there like a good, like, cause I don't want to seem like I'm jumping on things as soon as things aren't going my way. Cause that's what he says.
He says, whatever. Yeah.
Again, but you're fine. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But like, so fine.
And I don't know if he's going to hear it. You know, this is not about, you know, you're asking, is there a good way? What you're really asking, is asking is there a perfect way to say something so things resonate with him i don't know this guy and what i do know about this guy chances are he's very resistant to not getting his way yeah right so like chances are you're not going to say the perfect thing where it's going to like the light bulb's going to go off and he's going to be this mature guy again he's going to fight for the things that you give him you give give him a lot, right? But you're not asking him for anything.
Before it was, you were asking for something and that was the truth. You wanted the truth from him.
You wanted to find out who was Snapchatting. You wanted to get some clarity.
You're not asking for anything anymore. You're letting him know.
And it's not about Snapchat. You have come to a different decision.
And that is, you have too much going on right now. I don't even, like, you should, honestly, you should be talking to other girls.
Like, it was, I shouldn't have asked for that. Obviously, I think you're a great guy.
You have a lot going for you. I love being around you.
But, like, I have to be mature and recognize that, like, what I want for myself, you are not're you're too busy for and like you should be you are making good choices like you you should like i'm not i don't want to ask you to choose between your job and me sometimes people do like there are there are relationships out there where it's just like listen man i don't know i'm not getting what i need and you're a workaholic and like, you're never at home. And I feel fucking alone in this relationship.
You're not in a relationship, you know? So like you're playing house and you're just like, I just, I just can't, I don't want to do this anymore. And like, I'm, I'm just looking for something else.
I don't want anything. There's nothing you can say or do to change my mind because you're not doing anything wrong.
I just realized I need something different and I don't want you to fight for me and i don't need you to fight for me you should fight for your like your job your your career you're 22 chase your fucking dreams man like i'm rooting for you yeah it's what i said the first time but i did not stand my ground on it and i just yeah and like you know and he has a competitive spirit he won't even know the difference between like is is this a challenge? Does he love you? You don't, he, again, that's where his immaturity will come out. Yeah.
Yeah. That's.
And you have to be mature enough to recognize that his reaction will be about him, not about you. And you're, and you have to make sure you let your ego know that.
Yeah. And you hit it right on the head when you said like, I hate being like the bad guy in people's eyes because like i have done so much and it's going to really annoy me if he's going to think she was immature he'll call you names he'll say a bunch of things maybe he'll spread rumors i don't know i do not know his level of immaturity but you you're going to have to accept that anticipate that and and and let your ego be okay with that yeah you're absolutely right i know yep that's good advice it's it's what i needed what i i knew but needed to hear from someone other than my friends because it's just a story like you said is being your friends probably fucking love this shit it's great you know and like you know your friends right now the friends who want you to buy the boat right like they can't they can't even be honest you go to your friend be like hey should i buy this boat your friend's like yeah actually sounds like a lot of fun we would have so much fun they're not thinking can you afford it yeah like is this a good financial decision is this going to like create emotional distress for you you're they're just thinking about how much fun the boat is yeah and they they love the story now they want you to introduce you to some of like you know they're like i don't know is the linebacker single exactly like they wanted me to bring you know them to games and like make the weekend meet weekends of it it's like oh it's not that big of a deal you know just like ride the wave sure type of thing and for a while it was fine but i feel like like you said it's been four months and listen if you could and i'm not this is not a dare and like i i very much i i'm i say this with caution but if you were capable which i don't think you are and i don't

think you're gonna be and that's not something that you should try out but if you were capable of truly not giving a fuck and and saying think saying no to be like no i'm not gonna watch your fucking dog you shouldn't have gotten a dog yeah like yeah you know if you were capable of you know being in more position of power with this guy then i would say have some fun some fun, but you're not, you're not. No, not at this point.
I'm not.

And that's, that's more than understandable. Yeah.
Well, thank you. I, yeah.
Once, like you

said, going to chill this week with the dog, then find a way to get, get him back. And then

I don't just go from there. When you, if, if you actually move forward with ending it,

don't make a big thing of it. It's not a production.
Don't be dramatic. be like we have to talk he's not your boyfriend just kind of yeah yeah yeah okay okay all right well thank you guys so much i really appreciate it thanks for calling uh please give us an update on uh how when when you when and if you do that and how that went.
Yeah. Sounds good.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you. Bye-bye.
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