E913 - My Twin Sister's Affair

Speaker 1 Pay your late utility bill using a gift card. Claim your big prize by covering a small fee with a gift card.
Hey, grandma, can you send me a gift card?

Speaker 2 No matter who it is, if someone asks you to pay with a gift card, it's a scam. Always.

Speaker 2 Real companies and government agencies will never ask for gift cards as payment. Learn how to protect yourself at aarp.org/slash gift cards.
That's aarp.org/slash gift cards.

Speaker 1 Paid for by AARP.

Speaker 3 Amazon has everything for everyone on your list, like your husband who fidgets through the night like he's sending Morse code with his toes.

Speaker 3 Get him a weighted blanket and save big with Amazon early holiday deals. Sleep tight, Dave.

Speaker 1 There was a time in my life that I just wasn't as happy as I am today. I just, I just wasn't where I was at.
I wasn't my best self.

Speaker 1 And that was really because I wasn't getting the sleep that I needed. And then I discovered Helix sleep, and then the game changed.

Speaker 1 I mean, really, when this show started, I was not sleeping on a Helix mattress. And quickly, Helix said, hey, we need to help this guy.
And wouldn't you know it, I slept on a Helix mattress.

Speaker 1 And now this show is one of the biggest in the world. All thanks to Helix Sleep.
They truly is, it is amazing. It's one of the greatest inventions of all time.

Speaker 1 If you are looking for a new mattress, look no further than Helix mattress. It's truly incredible.

Speaker 3 Anytime we are in a hotel or staying at like a family member's or a friend's house and we're not sleeping on a helix mattress, our necks hurt, our backs hurt.

Speaker 3 Helix Sleep is recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine as a go-to solution for improving your sleep.

Speaker 3 All you have to do is take a quick online quiz to be paired with a mattress for you.

Speaker 3 We use the Moonlight Mattress and they give you a 100-night trial and a 10 to 15-year warranty to try out your new Helix mattress. So if you don't like it after 100 days, you can return it.

Speaker 3 Go to helixleep.com/slash V-I-A-L-L for the spring savings event to get 20% off site-wide. That's helixleep.com/slash V-I-A-L-L for 20% off site-wide.
Helixleep.com/slash V-I-A-L-L.

Speaker 3 You're crazy, I

Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 4 Hey, my name is Bryce. I'm 27 years old and I need some help.
I caught my girlfriend cheating at me at a baseball game that was on national television.

Speaker 1 Whoa,

Speaker 1 dude, this is like uh right. First of all, I'm sorry.
That's that sucks. So, like, where are we?

Speaker 1 Do you have the footage?

Speaker 4 I do, unfortunately. Yeah.
So, it's, it's crazy. Um, I don't know where you want me to start, but this isn't like, uh, you know, we were dating for a couple of weeks and she went out and did that.

Speaker 4 No, we were dating for three and a half years and had several conversations about like getting engaged and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 man, it just totally out of left field happened, which is ironic me saying that.

Speaker 5 But uh,

Speaker 1 pun intended.

Speaker 4 Yeah, caught her on TV. My, my little brother actually caught her, and the way it happened was just nuts.
I mean, where I'm from, like baseball is big, yeah.

Speaker 4 Uh, and so for them, you know, for her and this other guy to go and do that, they were very aware of the possibility of getting caught.

Speaker 4 And uh, yeah, my little brother caught it and he called me and I immediately turned it on, rewind it, and saw it. And it was just, I mean, in shock.

Speaker 1 I don't really know anything about it. That fucking sucks, dude.
And like, were they like kiss camming and or like being affectionate? Or they like she was like with with a guy?

Speaker 4 Very, very affectionate. And she's so damn stupid.
Like, you know, his arm was around her. She's holding his hand.
And you could just see how awkward it was for her.

Speaker 4 No, I mean, I don't know if she knew she was on TV. She was definitely on like the Jumbotron.

Speaker 4 But I don't think she knew she was on TV until my siblings decided to send her a message.

Speaker 1 So she knows she's got caught. We know that now.

Speaker 4 Oh, she she, yeah, she knows.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
And what has she said?

Speaker 4 So, man, I took a different route than probably most people would took. I never reached out to her.
Once it happened, that was it. It's been almost a month now.
I have not reached out to her one time.

Speaker 4 I blocked her on everything. Okay.
I removed all my social media. Just go off the radar for a little bit.

Speaker 4 Recoup myself.

Speaker 1 Do you have this footage? Like, do you have it on your phone? Can you send it to Justin? I am curious. I just want to see it.
We won't use it. We obviously want to protect people's identity.

Speaker 4 Yeah, man. The whole thing has just been, I don't even know.
Just probably, I mean, definitely the craziest thing that I've ever had to deal with in my life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that sucks, man.

Speaker 4 Especially when you're, you're three and a half years in, apart from like money invested and time and stuff.

Speaker 4 Just, you know, I was getting to that point where I was ready to like actually figure out my life, settle down, get married, have a family and all that.

Speaker 4 And who's going to be hosted at the end of the day, I guess?

Speaker 1 You're just hurting, man, right now. That's all.
Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 How old is she?

Speaker 4 She is 20, about to be 25.

Speaker 1 Okay. You're 27? Yes.
Okay. Back to like how you handled it.
So like, you know, know, you haven't talked to her in a month. You blocked her on everything.

Speaker 1 You just kind of, I'm guessing you're just like, your little brother told you, you saw it, moment of shock, you hurt, whatever. And you're just like, fuck this.
I'm done. I'm out.

Speaker 1 I have my answer kind of thing.

Speaker 1 But like, you also called in. You're like, hey, how do I handle my girlfriend cheating on me? So in your mind, is she your girlfriend today?

Speaker 4 No, so this is the backstory on it. Okay.

Speaker 4 So we dated three and a half years and this past May, so May 2024 we took a break and it was a literal break she said that i was very complacent in the relationship i wasn't putting a lot of effort in and and i you know i was like okay you're right i do love you like i've definitely kind of been lazy here and there so let me get my together i was still living with my parents you know whatever you know i was just trying to save money to where i could buy a house and stuff and so you know when she broke up with me i was like you know she's right like i got a this is a reality reality call that's all that's all it is yeah so over like the next 30 days of that breakup, we stayed in contact the whole time, which was weird.

Speaker 4 But, you know, I started figuring out what I wanted to do. I mean, I have a great job, great family.
The only thing I was lacking was like a place to be on my own.

Speaker 4 So I went out and started looking at houses. I ended up buying a house in September.
By this point, we were back together. So we were back together.
Things were going great.

Speaker 4 Asked her to move in with me around Thanksgiving. She would refuse to move in with me, didn't provide me any reason other than that she didn't have the money to help out.

Speaker 4 And I told her, you don't have to help out. Like, I got everything.

Speaker 1 Like, you don't have to worry about it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so she's still like, you know, I just don't think that we should do that. And so I'm just like, all right, well, whatever, you know, I'll try again in a few months.
And so a few months go by.

Speaker 4 And I guess we're, this was probably a month ago, exact. I brought it up again and she was still the same way.
Like, I just don't think we should do that right now.

Speaker 4 It's still early in our relationship. And I'm like, you know, it's been three and a half.
years.

Speaker 4 Either, either, we either have an idea of where we're going or we don't, you know, like we're kind of too far along at this point. And so this was like, you know, on, this was a Saturday night.

Speaker 4 She came to my house. We spent the whole night together, ate dinner, date, everything.
Fantastic evening. The next morning we wake up and she breaks up with me.

Speaker 4 And so I'm, again, this is like the first part of me being shell shocked. I didn't understand where it was coming from.

Speaker 4 I asked what was going on and she said that we weren't getting along well. And I knew something in the back of my mind told me that something was going on that I just wasn't aware about.

Speaker 4 But I trusted her with everything in my life. I mean, I've never trusted anyone, even family, like I trusted her.

Speaker 4 And so I just knew in my guts something, something was wrong. And while she was at my house breaking up with me, I asked her, I said, are you cheating on me?

Speaker 4 And she, she lost her shit on me and was like, I can't believe you'd say that. And I even apologized for saying it because I was like, that, you know, you would never do that.
You would never do that.

Speaker 4 And so she was like, look, this isn't like a real breakup. Like, look, we need to take a break again.
We need to figure things out. We're not communicating.
Will. So let's spend some time apart.

Speaker 4 I still like, we still need to talk. We still need to, so we can see each other, but we're not going to have the title of dating.

Speaker 4 So I'm like, okay, like, whatever, whatever you say, you know, whatever.

Speaker 4 So the next day comes and I called her and I was like, I don't think we should do this at all. Like, look, you say you love me.
I love you. You know, we've been through so much together.

Speaker 4 Like, let's just sit down and talk and figure this out. And she said, no, I don't, you know, I don't think that's a good idea.
We can't ever talk about it on our own.

Speaker 4 I said, well, then why don't we go sit with with like a couples therapist and, you know, figure this out. That's someone who doesn't know us.

Speaker 4 They can hear both of our sides of the stories or whatever we have to say and they can help form an unbiased opinion on it. She said that it was too early in our relationship to do that.

Speaker 4 But then I was like, okay, well, why don't we start going to church and actually build a foundation on God? I mean, that's, that was, that's our religion, Christianity.

Speaker 4 She said she doesn't trust priests or pastors. So I'm like, well, fuck, you're giving me absolutely nothing here.
I can't talk with you. We can't go sit with someone and we can't build a foundation.

Speaker 4 So I told her, I said, this is really simple. Either I'm going to give you a legitimate breakup, meaning no texting, no talking, no seeing each other.
You're not going to know where I'm at.

Speaker 4 You're not going to know what I'm doing, or we sit down and figure this out. And she couldn't decide.
So I said, I'm, I'm going to decide for you then.

Speaker 4 And so I told her, I said, if you, whenever you decide what you want to do, you let me know and just send me a text saying I'm ready to talk. That's it.

Speaker 4 She

Speaker 4 bawled her eyes out crying. She didn't want it to be this way, blah, blah, blah.
And so over those next few days, she resorted to texting my mom, asking my mom,

Speaker 4 is he okay? Where is he at? Is he at work? Is he at home? And my mom was like, All right, this is a, this is becoming a problem now that she's bringing me into it. And we're adults, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, sure, you know, just I'm sure on some level, though, her reaching out to your mom felt a little good because it was like she, you know, she still had me.

Speaker 4 She still had me on the, on the chain, I guess you could say. And so it was Thursday she calls me and I answered it.
She has, she would have texting me all week telling me, I love you so much.

Speaker 4 I hope you're okay. Are you all right? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I just, I didn't answer. I told her loud and clear, you let me know when you're ready to talk.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so it was this Thursday and she, she called me at like midnight asking how I was. And, you know, she was rambling on about something totally irrelevant.

Speaker 4 And I was like, look, let's cut the bullshit. Like, what are we doing here? Like, I'm, you know, I'm 27.
I'm trying to figure this out. Like, I don't want to be playing games, wasting time.

Speaker 4 Like, what's going on? And her response to me was, I saw on Facebook that this is how childish this sounds.

Speaker 4 I saw on Facebook that your following count went up. Are you adding girls on Facebook? And I'm like, like, no, like, no, like people, I add people I work with.

Speaker 1 You know, I know people.

Speaker 5 I'm adding people.

Speaker 1 It's also Facebook. I don't know if girls are.

Speaker 1 No, right.

Speaker 4 I mean, seriously. Seriously.
And I'm like, no, like, and so she says, were any of the people you added like females? And I was like, yeah, well, I mean, one one of them was.

Speaker 4 I went to school with her. No big deal.
I never had a relationship with her. Don't desire to have any relationship with her.
I'm still trying to figure out our relationship. That's what matters to me.

Speaker 4 And so she was like, hmm, okay. Well, if you're going to go ahead and add other people, don't be mad when I start talking to other guys.
And I'm like, hold on, what?

Speaker 4 Like, that's not even remotely the same.

Speaker 4 So she went on to basically tell me that she had texting or Snapchatting, whatever it was with some guy. And I told her, I was like, look, that's it for me.

Speaker 4 Like, I'm not, I'm not playing, I'm not playing these games. Like, I love you, but you, your head's just not in the right, right space.
And I basically just wished her well and hung up on her.

Speaker 4 And she blew my phone up all night. And I finally answered it because I was trying, I mean, I was trying to get sleep.

Speaker 4 And she was like, that's not what I meant. Like, I was just talking to a guy that I'm friends with about the whole situation.
I'm like, okay. So I forgave her again.
I'm like, all right, whatever.

Speaker 4 Let me know when you're ready to actually talk.

Speaker 4 And so she hung up that night, sent me a text saying, I love you so much like you're my best friend ever sent my mom a text saying just want you to know how much i love uh i love your son and how much your family means to me and you know once we figure out this time apart once we get back together things are going to be great and then 48 hours later was caught on tv with this guy gotcha okay um so we have the video now i'll play it and then we'll cut it out full hd yeah hd bro yeah um that sucks man that must that must have ripped your heart out.

Speaker 1 And so, okay, so then you found her a couple days later, and then you, you've blocked her ever since, and you haven't really spoken to her since?

Speaker 4 I have not talked to her since that night. I was on the phone with her that.

Speaker 1 So, like, now that you're calling in, and now I understand the story and the context, like, what are you

Speaker 1 as of today trying to figure out? Like, what, what can I help you, like, wrestle with? Because, to be honest, a lot of your, you know,

Speaker 1 your instincts seem to be pretty good, right? Like, you know, giving, considering your situation and what you're going through.

Speaker 1 And, you know, like you're making generally decent choices, you know, like I've seen people make worse choices. I've made worse choices in similar situations.

Speaker 1 But you're able to trust your instincts and your gut pretty well given the stakes. But like, how can I help you going forward?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, really, just how do I move forward? I mean, I don't, I know I probably sound okay. And like, I mean, mentally, I am okay.

Speaker 4 You know, the only, the only two things that have happened where a reaction has happened was that night.

Speaker 4 The night I saw it, I was getting in my truck to drive to the game to just show up and probably get arrested and beat the shit out of this guy.

Speaker 4 Honestly, that's if it wasn't for my brother, I would have been arrested. And then probably a week or two later, I just got the urge and I called, I know this guy very well.

Speaker 4 He's a, he's such a, he's a piece of shit. Yeah.
And like people blast him all over social media for who he is and like,

Speaker 5 cheats on girls all the time.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't, honestly, he's like,

Speaker 1 honestly, I guess it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter.
Cause like either way, it's going to fucking hurt because either he's a piece of shit or a great guy.

Speaker 1 Either way, you're going to fucking hear him. Right.

Speaker 1 You know, so like,

Speaker 1 it doesn't, it doesn't make a difference. All right, but go ahead.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but no, so like, you know, it's trying to figure out how I just move forward.

Speaker 4 I mean, I've been obviously trying to keep myself busy, going to the gym twice a day, spending time with family, spending time reading the Bible, just trying to better myself.

Speaker 1 But like, so let me ask you this, you know, and there's no wrong answer here. I want to be very clear about that.
Take your ego out of it. Take your pride out of it.

Speaker 1 Are you still like on the fence contemplating like, do I figure out a way to work this out with her?

Speaker 1 I don't even know how or what that looks like, blah, blah, blah, but I'm, you know, I still fucking love this girl and I wish something didn't happen, but blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Or are you just like, you know, listen, I've moved on. I'm not over her.

Speaker 1 I'm still like fucked up, a little, a little broken, but I do know like she is not my person and I'm just trying to move forward. Which one's more truthful?

Speaker 4 Oh, shit, dude. I guess that's what I'm calling it.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 But part of me at times is like, I'm in a better headspace without her being here.

Speaker 4 But then there's part of me that's like, if she really came to me with like a genuine apology, I mean, that's the thing. She hasn't.

Speaker 4 And she lives close enough to me to, you know, show up and make an apology. I've ran into her multiple times and she just acts like I don't exist.
So it's like,

Speaker 4 is she a heartless bitch? And she, you know, she faked who she was.

Speaker 4 So it's, it, it's, I'm 50-50 on it, you know, because I do love her. I mean, you don't just stop loving someone at three and a half years, even after they do you wrong.

Speaker 1 but let me ask you this to be clear has she for the most part accepted your decision and that decision is to like block her be done with her you know like you to your point she you know when you you ran into her it's not like that resulted in her banging your door down she acted like she didn't know you and she knows where you live and like

Speaker 1 right

Speaker 4 i mean she hasn't so it's weird because i don't know if she's accepted it because like she doesn't She lives by me, but for her to be in my, on my side of town, there's no need.

Speaker 4 Like, she doesn't do anything over here. There's nothing for her over here.
And so, like, literally two nights ago, she's right by my house.

Speaker 1 And I live in an area of- How do you know that? There's nothing.

Speaker 4 I was right. I was right next to her in traffic.

Speaker 1 Right next to her. That sucks.
Okay. Well, here, I'm going to say this to you first before we, we, before we unpack what you're trying to do.

Speaker 1 Like, and this is honestly more, if I give you any advice on this call, I hope you, I hope you listen to this advice. She fucked you up, right? We've get fucked up before.
Like, she hurt you.

Speaker 1 You've, you know, had a lot of plans. You know, she cheated on you.

Speaker 1 And also, I'm guessing her version is different because it sounds like there was like this kind of,

Speaker 1 are you together? Are you not together? I don't fucking know.

Speaker 1 But listen, you felt like she violated your trust. And like, you have the right to feel that way.
You've talked about self-embetterment. You talked about reading your Bible and yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 1 More than anything, what's really important about this is that like you don't let this person like affect you to the point where you like, you know, listen, everyone has baggage.

Speaker 1 You're going to have to deal with this shit some way, somehow, so you don't bring shit in your other relationship.

Speaker 1 But I've seen a lot of guys get fucked up by women and like honestly just become toxic assholes and use that as a justification to like be shitty towards women and say things like hoes will be hoes and, you know, all women are bitches or whatever.

Speaker 1 Or like all women, like, listen, people, people are fucking shitty. And there's a lot of shitty men out there and there's a lot of shitty women out there and everything in between, right?

Speaker 1 And so like, I, if my biggest advice to you, like man to man, is it's like, listen, like, she hurt you and like, you're going to have to figure that, you have a lot to figure out, but whatever you figure out, don't be so weak that you allow this person to like, at the end of the day, change your perspective and attitude towards women in general and let this person like, you know, honestly talk about women in ways that like you would rather, you know, if you were still with your girl right now, you wouldn't be like, hoe is being hoes and shit like that, you know?

Speaker 1 And I just think, you know, like, don't, don't allow yourself to let your anger change who you are and how you treat and act women in general yeah no for sure

Speaker 1 I know I said that but this is definitely I get it you're you're you're hurting my mom listen you're it's it's affected I'm just saying I've seen a lot of guys and then like yeah I appreciate you calling me that's a good sign dealing yeah listen everything you told me it sounds like you know she By the way, you know, you got a pretty exhe an attractive girl.

Speaker 1 She's two years younger than you. You know, you're from a small, you know,

Speaker 1 you're from a small area.

Speaker 1 i'm from wisconsin remind me of myself when i was your age you got a lot going for you good looking guy you got a job like you mentioned you know so it's like you got to a certain point i bought a house i should buy a house and now

Speaker 1 It's like, you know, I think a lot of people your age, right? Like I always say, like we, we, in our 20s, we're, we're living up to the expectations we set for ourselves as teenagers.

Speaker 1 When you think about it in those contexts, sounds kind of stupid. But you're also living up to your expectations of like how you were raised in your family and your community and your surroundings.

Speaker 1 And it was a lot of good right like you i don't know um sounds like you have a good family you got a good role models and like we want to model our our lives over the people that have been good examples but you're also you're in a very you're you're 27 very transitional part of your life man it's just like there's this weird you're in this weird area like you're you're older than you've ever been when you reflect back on you as a 20 year old you're like that guy was a stupid dumb piece of shit and now i'm so much smarter and wiser and i have more money and so you there have that but you're also only 27 you still have a lot of life in front of you right and then like i would say, I agree with your girlfriend.

Speaker 1 You got to this point where you're like, I don't know, I bought this house. We've been dating for three years.
And you're like, you should move in.

Speaker 1 And, you know, she was like making all these excuses and you're like, I don't need the money and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And like in that moment, what you should have listened to was her saying, I'm not ready to move in. And like, it honestly doesn't, there doesn't need to be a reason, right?

Speaker 1 Like, I tell people, listen, like, there's two reasons why people should move in with each other.

Speaker 1 One, you're engaged and or married in your, you know, like there's a, there is an actual commitment to each other. Or two, you're both just fucking excited about the idea of moving in with each other.

Speaker 1 That's it. Like it shouldn't be about rent and convenience, you know, and you were ready, but she clearly wasn't, man, you know, and like you didn't really want to listen to her.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's what, that's what screwed me up, though, is because she was so ready to buy a house. Like she was like, we need to start looking like sure.

Speaker 4 We talked about it for months and months and months. And then when it came time to like start looking, she just like backs off of it.
And so I don't, there was a change.

Speaker 4 When we broke up in May, there was a major change that happened. Something happened because the dynamic between me and her family completely shifted.

Speaker 4 I personally, I mean, looking back at, you know, numerous different things happened. I think this has been going on for a while.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 And I mean, I could, yeah, yeah, I mean, I've had several things happen out of coincidence, but if you want to break it down to its simplest form, my guess is, is that like, at the end of the day, you have a little bit of an age gap between you and her.

Speaker 1 You have a lot of good things going for you, right?

Speaker 1 And you became more established, more secure, you know, and like, listen, at least where you are right now, you're like, you're kind of ready to start your life, whatever that life is, right?

Speaker 1 She's not ready to start her life, you know? And despite every, you know, and I'm guessing if I were trying to empathize with her, right?

Speaker 1 If I'm trying to be her friend for a moment, just to understand her a little bit better, my guess is, is that like you presented all the things that she, you know, that 19 year old her told herself that she should be looking for and yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 1 And you're a good guy with a good family and a good job and a nice house. And it's like, why?

Speaker 1 But like also, maybe she's just like, I don't know, maybe independent her was just not ready to accept that life. And she didn't really know how to communicate that to you.
You know, you.

Speaker 1 tried your best and like, I don't know, like you, you, honestly, the way you tell your story, it honestly sounds like you handle yourself pretty well.

Speaker 1 And, but, like, you know, you're probably two relatively young people who couldn't figure this part out, right?

Speaker 1 Because, like, you know, you live in this community that, like, still is rooted in family values.

Speaker 1 I'm guessing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but like a lot of people, I'm guessing your communities relatively around this time are settling down and yada, yada, yada. I saw a video of her.

Speaker 1 She's an attractive girl. You're, you're an attractive guy.
You guys are dealing with the fact that, you know, a lot of people of community like sometimes settle down out of a necessity.

Speaker 1 You're two people like who have options. You know, you got things going for you, you know, and now you're in your 20s.

Speaker 1 It's like a very, it's a, it's a very like, I don't, I don't, you don't even, you don't know the answer. Should you be settling down now, you know, starting your life?

Speaker 1 Or as a pretty, you know, as a guy who has a lot of things going for him, I don't know, man. Like, I guess my point is, if you would have told 27-year-old me, you need to chill the fuck out.

Speaker 1 And you need to wait, if some archangel came down and said, I got news for you, buddy. Now's not the time for you to get married.
Now is not the time for you to settle down.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to tell you when it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 And I would have been like, what the fuck that?

Speaker 1 Everyone else in my life, all my buddies are getting wifed up. I've dated everyone in fucking Milwaukee that I think I could have dated.

Speaker 1 What the fuck, man?

Speaker 1 I'm ready. Took me,

Speaker 1 you know, and I'm not saying you should wait till you're 40, but like, I, you know, you don't know what life's going to bring you, man.

Speaker 1 Like, you don't know what opportunities and challenges and risks that you can take. I was a free agent, man, and I was able to say yes to a stupid show like The Bachelor.

Speaker 1 Then I was able to say yes to move to LA and quit my very good job to like chase a pipe dream. And it all seemed kind of fucking crazy.
It was calculated. I had some backup plans.

Speaker 1 It was thought through. But like my life has changed in the craziest possible way.
And honestly, in a lot of ways, I feel like my life's just getting fucking started.

Speaker 1 And a lot of that had to do with me not getting my way when I was 27 when it came to relationships, you know?

Speaker 1 And all I only tell you that story is to just be like, listen, man, like there's, you know, you're going to really struggle with letting things happen as a man, as a guy who's just like, you know, you're 27.

Speaker 1 It's like, you know, you probably in a lot of ways feel like, fuck, man, I've worked so hard to get this far. And now I want to start fucking taking control of my life.

Speaker 1 You know, and you're, and that, and you buying that house and you trying to move in with your girlfriend is like you're trying to take control of your life and you had the, you know, but maybe your life wasn't ready or didn't need to be taken control of, you know, and, you know, maybe you just had to let things play out.

Speaker 1 And my guess is like she's giving you a lot of answers.

Speaker 1 And in this conversation, you've, like you said, you're like, you know, your instincts, your gut tells you that maybe this isn't the first time she's pulled shit like this.

Speaker 1 It's just the first time you caught her. I don't think your girlfriend's a bad person.
I think she's a bad communicator. I think she's a pretty girl.

Speaker 1 who's got some options and she is really like just not sure if she should like chase the you know you're safe and he's exciting and And I'm sure, you know, that's not something to like fuck with your ego or whatever.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't matter, like, it doesn't even matter who he is, right? Like, it's just something different, right?

Speaker 1 And so she's not in a position to like have a healthy conversation, but you've made some good fucking choices as it relates to how to handle that.

Speaker 1 And now, now what you're fucking with is like, you, you blocked her. You said, fuck off, goodbye.
I don't want to talk to you, but she hasn't even, she hasn't really fought for you.

Speaker 1 And if I'm you and I'm your ego, that's going to fuck with me man and that's gonna like and and you're not being sure whether you still love her or you're ready to move on or not honestly like the fact that you haven't heard for you probably makes it more confusing because i would i would be confused if i were you and uh it would fuck with me and it would just like

Speaker 1 personally i think you're better off just continuing down the path that you're on saying goodbye to this relationship you know the fact that she was in your proxy to me that just sucks you know but she is like nothing nothing's changed in her life That's for sure, right?

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? She's no less sure.

Speaker 1 You, you handled it pretty well. You were like, you, you trusted, you trusted your gut.
You asked for clarity. She couldn't give you clarity.
You said, all right, well, then I got my clarity.

Speaker 1 I'm looking for. I'm going to make the decision for you.
Right. And you did.
And then she,

Speaker 1 then she went to a baseball game with a fucking dude, you know, like fresh off of you. Like at, and it felt like a violation, but that was her answer, man.
And

Speaker 1 she keeps keeps giving you answers, which is to not really fight for the relationship or not really do any work. And like you are the stronger person in this relationship.

Speaker 1 And that should tell you something. And that's not to be like, not for your ego to be like, I'm better and more mature than her.
And I'm, you know, but like, you're not the same level.

Speaker 1 And like, you can. And again, I'm not saying you're meant to be single for 10 years and you're supposed to go on the bachelor or some crazy shit.

Speaker 1 I'm just, my advice to you is to just accept that maybe you are wrong about what your path should be and that you don't know what your path is. That's a good, good point.

Speaker 1 And in the meantime, just make good decisions for yourself. Make healthy decisions.
Invest in good people. Invest in your family.
Read your Bible.

Speaker 1 Make sure that you are, you know, not letting this person affect you in ways that project that and help in, you know, the hurt people hurt people.

Speaker 1 Make sure that you're not hurting other people because she hurt you and get to a good and healthy place where like, listen, she is just one person, man.

Speaker 1 She seems like, you know, to someone, she might be a good catch, but like she's got some figuring some shit out to do. And good news is you got good, you have a lot of eligible years left, man.

Speaker 1 Like you do. And so, and I don't know what that looks like for you, but the more you can just be comfortable with being alone.

Speaker 1 Be fine that you bought this house, be open to the possibilities of what options you even have for this house. You can rent it.
You can sell it. Who knows, man?

Speaker 1 You literally have your whole fucking life in front of you and you have a lot of good things going for you. And this is a bump in the road.
But like everything that matters, you still have.

Speaker 1 You still got your family. You still got your job.
You still got your health.

Speaker 1 You still got your age, which, you know, you're only going to get older. But man, man, you are truly as eligible as you're ever going to be.

Speaker 1 And honestly, you got a good, you have a good 15 fucking years left to be like prime eligible bachelor for literally any age group of women.

Speaker 1 And so might as well just take it, you know, I only say that to you right now because I don't want you to make some sort of like like hasty decision to like convince yourself you need to go back to this girl, you know, for whatever reason.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, I, I, I mean, I really, I've had, I think it's been a little over, I think it's been right out of month since this happened.

Speaker 4 There has been very little thought, like, should I go back to her?

Speaker 5 I won't reach out to her.

Speaker 4 Like, it's going to be, you know, if she even wanted that, it would come with a lot of work of her having to.

Speaker 4 apologize and like genuinely mean it. But like in the meantime, I'm not waiting.

Speaker 1 I'm not waiting for that like i'm pushing myself forward good good everything and the truth is you don't run myself out there your ego wants to hear from her i'm guessing you know but like you should like she's not changing anytime soon you know what i'm saying what whatever that was stopping her from saying yes to you and yes to moving in and yes to moving forward and taking the next step like that hasn't changed in her life you know what i'm saying correct and And she wasn't wrong, you know, and that's it.

Speaker 1 That's a thing that we struggle with, like, right?

Speaker 1 Is that in the heat of the moment when you were trying to convince her or talk with her and you needed an answer, whatever was telling her I'm not ready was her truth.

Speaker 1 And she can love you and think you're great and know that a life with you would be pretty good and realize, I don't know, man, I just'm not ready to be a fucking housewife.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I wasn't.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm not saying you're pressing her at all.

Speaker 4 That worked up. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I wasn't worked up on it either. It was like, okay, that's, that's fine.
Like,

Speaker 4 I'm, you know, I'm patient. I have patience.

Speaker 1 No, I know, but like you know like you said though once sometimes a relationship gets to a certain point and like i think two people act like you know like in terms of what are we doing here we have been dating for three and a half years where is it going you know like so it's a there's no wrong answer like the the only thing that really sucks is that like she just was like too cowardice and too immature to just give you an honest fucking answer and like i don't know man i'm not I'm not ready for this type of relationship.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I think we, I think we need some distance, but she didn't have the guts to do it, so you did it for her. And then she took the easy way out

Speaker 1 and got a little sloppy. And she wasn't stupid.
You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying she went to get caught, but like you said, like she, she went. She knew what she was doing.

Speaker 1 She knew what she was doing. And

Speaker 1 maybe there's a part of her that kind of wants you, you know, maybe she doesn't want to be lying, you know? Like most, very few people are like narcissistic sociopaths who just don't give a fuck.

Speaker 1 They're just, they just don't, they lack the maturity or the emotional, emotional, whatever the fuck that like allows them to just say, you know what, fuck, I'm scared as fuck.

Speaker 1 I, I don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna regret this, but I do know right now I'm not ready. And yeah, we should probably take some real time apart.

Speaker 1 And I wish I could be friends with you and I wish I could call you every day, but I know that's not fair to you. And we should break up.

Speaker 1 And I'm really sorry that I made promises to you about getting married to you. And, and if I, you know, but like, I, I'm sorry, and I fucked up.

Speaker 1 And I know you're going to hate me, but like, this is what I need for myself. And she didn't have the guts to do that.
She went to a baseball game instead.

Speaker 4 Yep. If she'd have done that, it would have been a different thing.
Like, seeing it would have been still sucked, but I guess a lot more like easy to swallow.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You don't even, honestly, you don't even know that.
Honestly, you really don't know that.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I guess you're right.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's just a hindsight, just your hindsight thought, but it's just the fact to stringing me along, blowing my phone up, blowing my mom's phone up, wondering what I'm doing, all this.

Speaker 4 And it's like, you know, why do that?

Speaker 1 Listen, that's

Speaker 1 you do yourself a favor by giving her the grace of just saying, honestly, it's like, she wasn't capable of it. And you're not making excuses for her because you're not begging for her to take it back.

Speaker 1 She just, she had some growing up to do. I was too blind to see it because I, you know, I had decided that I wanted certain things.

Speaker 1 And, you know, fuck, man, like, when we're in love, man, like, we just, we kind of bulldoze through things because we want to get our way.

Speaker 1 And, and, and, you know, and like, so I would just give her some grace so you can let go of the anger and the hate or whatever. And,

Speaker 1 cause that just keeps you emotionally invested, right?

Speaker 1 Like, that's the shit that, like, when you're driving, like, you're in your car now, that you just go down this mental rabbit hole and you get fucking angry and you start asking yourself some questions and you're just like, yeah, fuck, man.

Speaker 1 Like, there was that one time, was she fucking cheating on me then, man? Like, fuck. Honestly, who gives a fuck now? You have your answer.
You know that, you know,

Speaker 1 regardless of the messy details, your girlfriend just wasn't as emotionally ready for what you guys talked about as she claimed to be. And whether, and it wasn't, it probably wasn't malicious.

Speaker 1 She probably thought she did. And she was wrong and maybe a little self-centered and a little immature about it.
And she hurt you as a result, but like, she's not a bad person.

Speaker 1 She's just not your person, especially right now. And this is how you got here.
So like, let her figure out her shit. Say goodbye to her.

Speaker 1 If there's a future for you two, I can confidently say it's not in the next year, you know, and she might need to date other guys or whatever, do her thing.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, maybe, maybe in a year, you guys run into each other again. And maybe she's ready to be like, I was really shitty as a girlfriend to you.
And I'm really sorry.

Speaker 1 And I just want to say that. And maybe there's a twinkle in each other's eyes.
And I don't know, maybe something happens then.

Speaker 1 But like, I really confidently can say that chances are you guys need some real distance, some real separation, or some real personal closure. And not closure you're going to get from from her.

Speaker 1 That's you just being like, you know what? We are done.

Speaker 1 You know, and this chapter's over. And if there is a chapter for us in the beginning, that's a chapter that really needs to like play itself out in the future.
Because right now,

Speaker 1 this person needs to figure her shit out. And I can't be here on the sidelines as her friend to help her.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Another part I want to add in that you can maybe give me some advice on. So like I told you, I didn't reach out to her, text her, call her, nothing, like nothing at all.

Speaker 4 And so I ran into her dad and I was always very close with her dad.

Speaker 4 And so I just went out, I mean, we were at a golf course and I ran into him and I just went up to tell him, like, thanks for all you did for me. Really appreciated everything you did.

Speaker 4 Hated that I couldn't, you know, talk to you before all this happened.

Speaker 4 He has the nerve to basically put his finger in my face telling me to quit disrespecting his daughter, quit making up these lies and rumors.

Speaker 4 I mean, he went on to tell me that our relationship was over three months ago and had the nerve to tell me that you're in his or you're in hers.

Speaker 4 Sorry, say that again?

Speaker 1 He told you that you're in hers relationship was over three months ago or you're in his?

Speaker 4 Me and hers. He said, I hate to break it to you, but y'all's relationship ended three months ago, which, I mean, I didn't see that.

Speaker 4 I don't know how that, how that's possible, but that he's not making that shit up on his own. I just, I know him well enough.
He's not making that up. That came from somewhere.

Speaker 4 And so i went on to talk to him and he's saying that i'm bad mouthing her which i'm not i'm not i mean i have friends asking me you know where's she at where's she at and i just i straight up told him she you have the right to you have the right to be honest yeah yeah

Speaker 4 right and so but i guarantee you she does not see it that way you know what i'm saying she obviously is operating in semantics you know and you say you know you you bring up the narcissism thing i'm not gonna be the one to diagnose somebody with that at all but he certainly has those traits and uh what's getting back to me and genuinely like i don't give a fuck what she says at this point i really don't but for her to go around telling people that i cheated on her when there's there's no evidence i've never cheated on her i've always been loyal to her dragging my name through the fucking mud i don't care what she's saying but i do care that it's out there if that makes sense who is she saying it to other than her dad all of her friends and we and we share a pretty i mean a pretty unique circle of friends So, like, it's pretty obvious what side people are picking.

Speaker 4 I don't give a fuck what side people pick. I really don't.
I mean, I know what really genuinely happened. It's just that it's like, what is she saying?

Speaker 1 I don't care about my reputation. What is she saying?

Speaker 4 She's telling people that I cheated on her,

Speaker 4 that I treated her like shit, that I was an addict. I mean, I'm not addicted to anything.
Like, literally anything. I don't do drugs.
I barely drink socially. I gamble here and there.

Speaker 4 I mean, I don't know what addiction I would fucking have.

Speaker 4 You hooked me up to a lie detector test for all this.

Speaker 1 True. There's nothing

Speaker 4 to the fullest extreme to protect herself.

Speaker 1 You're getting your answer, man. Like, and listen, you know, you're right.
You're do yourself no favors by diagnosing her. Like, listen, she's very selfish right now.

Speaker 1 And a lot of a lot of 20-something people are, and quite honestly, should be. I don't, not this way.
Her dad's certainly going to have her back. Totally get that.

Speaker 1 You're going around telling people she cheated on you. And she's like, this motherfucker broke up with me two days before that.
I didn't cheat on him. You know, like, that's her truth.
Guarantee it.

Speaker 1 Right. And I get why your truth is very different.
You know, you're just like, bro,

Speaker 1 we've been going back and forth. You've been my girlfriend for three years.
This is like another one of your things.

Speaker 1 And like, regardless if you cheated on me or not, like, you, I don't know what, what it felt like in the moment.

Speaker 1 I bet it felt pretty fucking shitty and you can give some analogy or whatever, but like, it hurt you. You know, that's what mattered.
And she knew it would hurt you.

Speaker 1 And like, you know, semantics about cheating or whatever. So like, my advice to you is to stop talking about her, period.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that gives a shit.

Speaker 1 Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit what people think anymore about whether you cheated or cheat? You're broken up, man.

Speaker 1 You know, and if people on a one-on-one situation want to ask you questions and whether it's, you know, and I understand your reputation matters to you, but like, I, I'm guessing most people don't give a fuck.

Speaker 1 And I'm guessing most people see this as messy gossip.

Speaker 1 And if it doesn't affect your job and doesn't affect your relationship with your family or doesn't affect your relationship with your closest friends, then it just don't matter.

Speaker 4 Well, that's what I'm worried about is it is getting back to my job.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 Not that it's going to affect me, but people I work with are connected to her or her family in one way or another. And that's being brought up.
And like, again,

Speaker 4 you know, that's where I kind of have a problem. That's what I was saying.
I don't give a fuck if she tells it to her little friends or whatever.

Speaker 4 But when it's starting to affect family, friends, family, close friends, and job, like you said, then it becomes a problem.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know. Do you think it's gotten to the point where you can just like wait, raise the right flag and just be like, listen, man, like, I know I haven't talked to you since.

Speaker 1 Why are you saying some of this stuff?

Speaker 1 And then maybe she's like, well, you're saying shit about me and be like, you know, whatever I said and however I feel about the end of our relationship, it really is what it is.

Speaker 1 But like, you know, it's be like, fine, I'll stop. Like, I don't even want to debate with you whether we think.
But like, you guys can sit there and debate whether she cheated on you.

Speaker 1 But if she's literally saying out-of-pocket things like, you have an addiction and you're like, i don't know i went to the casino a couple times and i got drunk once you know you can be like why why are you saying stuff like this with like why are you trying to hurt me you know like what why a small silver line maybe this is like her way of getting your fucking attention uh because you blocked her and i'm not saying you should bring her back into your life but i don't know if you really think it's affecting it's getting to the point where it could affect things that matter maybe in the gentlest way you just wave that flag and just say can we move on from each other's lives i you know i don't want to be you know, obviously I'm hurt.

Speaker 1 I care about you. Like, I don't like how things ended, but like, what I don't, like, why, why has it gotten to this point?

Speaker 1 And can we just stop whatever it is that we think each others are doing and just not badmouth each other? You know, I don't, I mean, do you think, do you think that we'll get through the hurt?

Speaker 5 I can do that.

Speaker 4 I can definitely do that. I mean, I've kind of come to terms with it anyway.
And I've, like I said, I've ran into her quite a few times and I'm prepared to have that conversation.

Speaker 4 Like you said, I don't want to debate. I'm not trying.
I'm not here to argue. Like, let's just end it on the most civil terms we can possibly do and just move on.

Speaker 4 Like you said, I'm tired of fucking talking about it. I really am.
I think if you were sent this message in a couple of weeks ago, okay. So I followed through with it anyway.

Speaker 4 But like, I genuinely, other than that, like in the last week, I've haven't talked about it to anybody at all.

Speaker 1 That's good. Well, that's progress.
So, listen, if you're really on a path to healing,

Speaker 1 like the best way to, like, listen, you reaching out to be clear, like, has its purpose and that purpose is to Diffuse whatever drama so that this you know doesn't trickle into like things that actually can affect your life like obviously this is affecting your life because it's emotional and she fucked you up but like it's one thing to have heartbreak and another thing for it to like bleed into other aspects of your life right so you have a purpose here right and if your purpose is to just simply diffuse it nothing else matters then the best way to connect with her or get through to her is to like honestly tell her what she wants to hear whatever that is like and you know her best

Speaker 1 And, and maybe I think I well, I guess what I'm saying is, you know, you, you attract bees better with honey than with vinegar, right? I'm sure you've heard that saying.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't think you should say anything to try to get her back.

Speaker 1 You can say things like, listen, man, like, I just, if she says, like, you're talking shit about me, blah, blah, blah, don't say, because you cheated on me.

Speaker 1 Just be like, yeah, listen, man, I was, I was really heartbroken that I, you know, our relationship was over. And obviously, like, there was a lot of hurt.

Speaker 1 And I'm not trying to point the finger, but I am just, we should stop, you know and just tell her that you're gonna miss her tell her that she was a great girlfriend tell her that she you know that just compliment her you know just like put your ego aside and just tell her what you know because that shows strength like the more emotional mature person who is above this bullshit is gonna just be able to just fucking you know i remember like when my when i was 28 years old my then fiancé cheated on me right and she you know very similar to like you there were rumors and like i don't know what exactly happened but emotionally physically i don't know some fucking shit went down that much i know is clear right and you know like and then finally it fucked me up a little bit like we lived in the same town like and then i got a new girlfriend a few months later she ended up getting engaged to this guy then she's out on her bachelorette party and i was at that point i was pretty much over heeled and good right and then like my my then girlfriend was bartending and like i would always go to her bar with me and my buddies and it's like hey my girlfriend's bartendering i'm gonna go get fucking free drinks and have fun you know because i'm not gonna go hit on girls i'll just like hang out with my girlfriend while she's bartending bartending, right?

Speaker 1 And then my ex walks in at her bachelor party, knowing where my then-girlfriend works.

Speaker 1 And I was so chill and so like above it and so like not triggered her because I knew like, I knew what she was doing. And I was like, oh man, congratulations.
I'm really happy for you guys.

Speaker 1 It's going to be great. And this, and she just starts crying because like she, she came in to fuck with me and I was like so good and so like.

Speaker 1 you know, and I was happy for her and she didn't even know how to fucking process it, you know, and I was just like, that's wild.

Speaker 1 you know and so just tell her what she wants to hear man you she is this this she is reacting to something you're doing right i'm guessing you know when you you said like i ran into her and she acts like i don't exist do you do you also act like she doesn't exist no so so i did so

Speaker 4 backstory i work out at a gym around the corner from my house and she goes every morning to get this like nutrition shit whatever it is and so the first day i walked out she was walking in and we just like looked at each other and turned away.

Speaker 4 And then a few days later, it happened. I just smiled and waved.
So ever since then, I just smile and wave every time. She doesn't do anything back.

Speaker 1 She doesn't smile or wave?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 4 She acts like I did something to her now, you know? So it's like, whatever. But I'm more than emotionally stable and okay to have a conversation with her and be completely.

Speaker 1 Completely fine.

Speaker 1 I mean, just be careful, you know, just I would go in just knowing that it sounds like, I don't know, she's, I don't know what's going on in her head, but like, I would, I would be careful.

Speaker 1 I would be very self-aware of everything that's going on, you know, don't put yourself in a position where she can make up anything else and just wave that white flag and just say, listen, like, I just, I hate that it's gotten this way.

Speaker 1 I don't think we should be friends. You know, I care.
I, I, I love you too much to try to be your friend, but I hate that it's gotten to this way. Can we just be like, can we wish each other well?

Speaker 1 You know, know and if you want to if you if if you want to talk about anything i'm sorry if i blocked you i'm sorry if whatever you know i don't think you i don't honestly think i hope she doesn't follow through with this but just just try to be someone who's like make her feel guilty about talking shit just just try to like 100 just try to like bring her off that ledge just be yeah make her feel bad about being mean because right now

Speaker 1 There's a good chance that her, this behavior is like trying to get your attention.

Speaker 1 You know, granted, she said you you waved and like you know but you wave and smiling like i don't know maybe she sees that as you being a smartass or waving and you're okay like she wants

Speaker 4 i don't she wants something from you i don't know what it is she wants a reaction yeah i mean it's it's to the point now where like i mean this is kind of irrelevant but the only social media that i have is linkedin just for work work reasons and like i see her checking it every day now like i have it where i can see who views my profile so she's like doing that she's driving out of her way right by my house.

Speaker 4 This isn't the first time it's happened in the last few weeks. It's like,

Speaker 4 look, if you want to stop and have a conversation,

Speaker 4 like you, yeah, you fucked me over, but I still like, I'm, I still have no ill will towards you, you know, like I can still.

Speaker 1 You got a little and that's okay. You're allowed to.
You're a human being.

Speaker 1 So I think it's okay. I think you should acknowledge you're still angry.
You're not over it. No.
That's okay. It's only been a month.

Speaker 1 And I think you could still try to be like, just be honest with her and just try to let go of the anger.

Speaker 1 Just be like, I am angry, but like, I still fucking love you, even though I don't think we should be together. And it still hurts.
And I, I don't, you know, fuck, man.

Speaker 1 Like, but like, why are we making our lives even harder than they need to be? You know, like, can we just,

Speaker 1 can we not, you know, like, I don't, you know, in a minute, like, I don't, like, fuck, man. I, even if it's not true, just tell her you think about her.
Fuck. It's probably is true.

Speaker 1 But like, you know,

Speaker 1 you're, this is about self-preservation, but like, if you keep working on yourself, man, you're really honest with yourself and you make healthy decisions, you'll get through this.

Speaker 1 And you know, I don't know where my ex is now these days, but I can confidently say whether it was her or the ex before her or the ex after, like, I'm really good or happy with how I made choices versus them.

Speaker 1 And I'm not saying I'm even a twinkle in their eye anymore, but like, I definitely feel like I won the breakups, you know, and that was because like I dealt with my fucking shit in a way that I, you know, was able to like move on where I didn't, like when I did run into them, I knew, I felt it.

Speaker 1 I felt good. I felt emotionally regulated.
I could honestly be there for them emotionally without it emotionally affecting me. You're not there yet, right?

Speaker 1 Like when you're in the relationship, when you were trying to be there for your girlfriend when she was struggling, hard for you to fully be there for her because you're all very confused why she won't move in with you and you're trying to be there for her, but you need her to be there for you.

Speaker 1 When I was running into my ex-girlfriends, you know, after I had moved on, I didn't need to be there for them anymore. I didn't need, I certainly didn't need them to be there for me, right?

Speaker 1 I was good, you know, I was fine. I didn't give a, I knew that as soon as I was saying goodbye to them, I'd be like, whatever.

Speaker 1 And I'd maybe tell my friend, hey, I ran into so-and-so, but it wouldn't like fucking cannibalize my day.

Speaker 1 And when you're in that position, you have so much fucking power and you have so much control and like you just feel like above it and you're good.

Speaker 1 And you can, you know, it's a power that you don't want to manipulate use because you kind of manipulate you can manipulate you can you can you feel like this out of body of experience where you recognize like you know you in the past would have been all fucked up but now you can literally say things because you know you're just trying to you're just trying to help her you're trying to help her get to the place that you're at and honestly you don't even mind if she gets over you because you know you're not you know a lot of people it's like i i don't want to date you but i still want you not over me so and that's kind of a little bit where she is right now like she probably is still enjoying her freedom but she just wants to know that you're still fucked up over her.

Speaker 1 So, like, give her what she wants.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. Yep.

Speaker 1 Yep. You know, let her know that you're an absolute hot mess of whatever and that you're sad, but you don't, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 What you want is this.

Speaker 1 You want, you want it to not bleed into other healthy aspects of your life.

Speaker 4 Correct. That's it.
Yep.

Speaker 1 All right. Was this helpful?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, dude. I appreciate it.
Seriously.

Speaker 1 Cool, man. Well, sorry you're going through this.
I relate to you, man.

Speaker 1 I really think this could be a

Speaker 1 I was around your age when similar shit happened like this to me. And I look back at that time of my life as a very pivotal time in my life.

Speaker 1 I look back on that life as a time where I think to myself, I actually finally learned who I was as a person, as a man, as an adult.

Speaker 1 I'm sure you've thought that before, but I promise you, like, you're going to have other periods of your life where you're going to be like, whoa, fuck, man.

Speaker 1 Like, that was, damn, I was stupid when I was 27. You know, you might even say that about 30-year-old you, like 40-year-old you is going to look back, you know, like you should always be learning.

Speaker 1 You should always be growing.

Speaker 1 If you're a finished product at 27,

Speaker 1 you're not, you know,

Speaker 1 you're just a fool.

Speaker 1 So just keep, just keep being willing and being open. Let life happen.
Be open to keep

Speaker 1 your circle healthy.

Speaker 1 you know, take risks, but make healthy, calculated risks and good choices. Be patient.
Shit will work out, man. I promise.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for sure, man. Thank you.
I really appreciate that.

Speaker 1 All right. Take care.
I appreciate the call. Always great hearing from

Speaker 1 our men. It's honestly no different, man.
Like, we're all human beings who are just trying to, like, we, we're all trying to, like, make our, our life movie the best possible outcome in general.

Speaker 1 And, and we're all just figuring it out at the same time. So that's kind of where you're at right now.

Speaker 4 Yep. It's a pivotal point, but like you said, a lot, a lot of good can happen from this.

Speaker 1 So looking forward to that. Absolutely.
All right, man. I appreciate the call.

Speaker 1 uh keep late uh if you're if you're down i'd love an update like in a month from now where things are at um yeah for sure man i'll reach back out all right i appreciate you all right talk to you later thanks man y'all take care all right bye-bye

Speaker 1 this episode of the off house is sponsored by better health

Speaker 1 it's all about investment people you need to invest in your mental health we get it like you want to look good naked you want to you want to exercise I understand, but like if you're going to spend that much money on gym memberships and meals and things like that, like to be healthy, that's great.

Speaker 1 But if your mental health is not where it needs to be, like what are we doing here, people?

Speaker 1 It really like changes people's lives by getting it out, talking about your anxiety, your problems, things that are just weighing you down.

Speaker 1 There's nothing I talk about more on this show is being mindful of where your thoughts and energy is going because it's not unlimited.

Speaker 1 And we waste so much time ruminating about things that weigh us down. Let that stuff go.
Get it out. Talk to a mental health professional like someone that you can find at BetterHelp.
And we get it.

Speaker 1 Therapy can be inconvenient. It can be expensive.
And it can be intimidating. But all those things, BetterHelp helps make easier.

Speaker 1 They're working with new therapists every day to help ensure that you're going to find a therapist that you connect with.

Speaker 1 And you can keep switching therapists with BetterHelp until you land on a therapist that you feel great about.

Speaker 1 at your convenience. All you really need is a phone, a device, a computer, something to call in.
You can even not even do video to video.

Speaker 1 If you just want to do voice to voice and you want to keep that anonymity, no problem with BetterHelp. And it's more affordable than in-person therapy.

Speaker 1 So it really gets away of all those barriers that you've been telling yourself that have stopped you from maybe getting into therapy today.

Speaker 1 With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's super convenient and it will change your life.

Speaker 1 Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com/slash V-I-A-L-L today to get 10% off your first month.
That's BetterHelp, h-g-l-p.com/slash V-I-A-L-L.

Speaker 3 The second I got pregnant, I immediately was like, oh my gosh, there is so much about my life that I have to change.

Speaker 3 Everyone's in your ear saying it's your shampoo, it's your skincare, it's your this, it's your that. What prenatal to take? And thank God I found ritual.

Speaker 3 Ritual I had been taking for years before that. I was taking their women's multivitamin.
And so I knew immediately that's where I was going to go for my prenatal.

Speaker 3 And I loved it so much because they are essenced in a citrus or mint. So there's not this like weird, gross flavor when you put it in your mouth.

Speaker 3 I struggled so much because I was sick and I couldn't stomach anything, but I could stomach rituals prenatal, and it is because they have a delayed release designed to help make it gentle on an empty stomach.

Speaker 3 So they keep morning sickness in mind, which I was so, so grateful for. When it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency.

Speaker 3 Mom-founded ritual puts in the work and shows you the proof. Get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com/slash V-I-A-L-L.

Speaker 3 That's ritual.com/slash V-I-A-L-L for 25% off your first month.

Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 5 I'm great. My name is Hannah, and I am 34 years old.
How can I help, Hannah? I don't know how to handle my twin sister's affair.

Speaker 1 Okay, your twin sister. Are you guys identical? Not that that matters.
I'm just.

Speaker 5 No, we're not identical, but we are extremely close. Probably just about as close as twins can be.

Speaker 1 Where are we in the affair process? Is it ongoing?

Speaker 1 Who knows about it? Give me the deets. So, like, what are we dealing with here?

Speaker 5 To my knowledge, they started the affair sometime early last summer. I think it was building a little bit before then.

Speaker 5 My sister actually left her husband for this guy.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 then she went back to her husband. And my understanding was that they had broken up.

Speaker 5 But then, you know, because she confides in me, they got back together, then they broke up again, then they got back together. So I

Speaker 1 who's breaking up and getting back together? Her and her husband?

Speaker 5 Sorry, she and the affair partner.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 and how much if any did the husband know about the back and forth um he had his suspicions but they've been together for so long that it just like it couldn't be true so does he know anything yet like does he know why she left now he knows yeah now he knows that um she had an affair he hopes and believes and is telling himself that it is over but it's not I think it's over in a lot of ways, but I think that they work together.

Speaker 5 And I think that there's still a lot of like wink wink, but like you're still my love kind of like situation going on.

Speaker 1 And what's the other person's situation?

Speaker 5 The affair partner.

Speaker 5 So they're co-workers. He is

Speaker 5 he's been divorced several times. He is much, much older.
I've met him, not a cool guy. And he had a long-term girlfriend that he broke up with for my sister.

Speaker 1 What is your sister have kids or anything like that?

Speaker 5 Nope, no kids, not yet. They were planning on doing that soon, but that, you know, this put a wrench and everything.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, how long have they been married for?

Speaker 5 They've been married for, they had their, they would have had their anniversary and their fifth anniversary in December, but they've been together since my sister was 19.

Speaker 5 That's like her only, you know, person she's ever had.

Speaker 1 Interesting. They never got divorced, though.
They just separated.

Speaker 5 They separated and now they're like, I'll tell you all about it. Now they're, you know, she's sort of moved back in and, you know, it's, it's very messy.

Speaker 1 So what do you say to your sister right now? Like, what's your relationship status with her? And like, how open do you guys talk about this?

Speaker 5 Open, so open, too open. It's a huge burden on me.
She told me in the beginning, before I knew that it was going to become a full-fledged affair.

Speaker 5 um she told me you know that she had you know you know in a fit of passion you know slept with someone else so this would have been just the second person she's ever had sex with you know she's only ever ever been with her husband.

Speaker 5 And I, you know, didn't want to panic or freak out, even though I'm pretty tight with my brother-in-law. I don't know, didn't know how to act.

Speaker 5 So, um, so she, she told me, and I kind of, you know, let it go, like, let it be like, okay, well, you know, you keep that, you keep that a secret. Then it happened again, then it happened again.

Speaker 5 And by the end of last summer, why'd you tell her to keep it a secret? Because

Speaker 5 my sister and I have such a strange bond, which is kind of like, you know, no matter what,

Speaker 5 you, we were there for each other.

Speaker 1 What do you, what is there for each other mean to you?

Speaker 5 When you can't count on anyone else to not judge you, to not, uh, to not punish you, to not whatever, like it's just your open ears. And that's always been our relationship.

Speaker 5 So I, you know, I wasn't going to.

Speaker 1 Question, I guess, like how, you know, So here's what I'm hearing from you. Like you said, like you and your obviously twin sister, not surprisingly are very close, very connected.

Speaker 1 And like you said, you know, your relationship is unique and there's this kind of unspoken or maybe sometimes spoken bond that you guys are always there for each other and there for each other means you guys can tell each other secrets and without judgment or shame or simply just listen without offering any criticism, critiques, or tough love or hard advice.

Speaker 1 You're just simply there to listen, accept, I guess in some ways, validate and approve of things, even if you don't.

Speaker 1 Would that be accurate?

Speaker 5 Well, that's like, my gosh, yeah, nail on the head with that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, and I understand, obviously, you calling because your feelings internally have changed, but you're grappling with how to relay that message to your sister, right?

Speaker 1 That's what I'm hearing.

Speaker 5 I'm grappling with how, I mean, I've been,

Speaker 5 our relationship has changed, especially in recent months, or and even just as immediately as, you know, when I wrote in. But

Speaker 5 what I'm grappling the most with is

Speaker 5 recent, you know, kind of like, you know, beginning, you know, about a month or two ago of just disgust and anger with my sister.

Speaker 5 And I'm worried that I won't ever be able to, you know, rebuild that kind of, you know, relationship with her.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, you know, that's certainly a valid concern, but I don't know if we're quite there yet.

Speaker 1 But I think, I guess my question to you is, and maybe, you know, it's a bit rhetorical because obviously you're communicating your problem.

Speaker 1 But like, how do you feel like this dynamic with your sister has helped your relationship with her as you both have gotten older in adult life?

Speaker 1 And how has that relationship and that dynamic helped you guys as individuals being each other's closest confidant?

Speaker 5 I think it's helped her a lot. And I've done a lot of reflecting on this lately.

Speaker 1 You think it has helped me much? Well, how, and again, I'm not, I'm not here to judge judge either of you in terms of like how you've helped each other, but like, do you think it's helped her?

Speaker 1 If you are her, if you are her closest support system confidant, and again, I'm in no way blaming you, but like

Speaker 1 she has come to you and over the course of, sounds like this has been going on over a year,

Speaker 1 over a course of a extended period of time. She is operating in a way that you very much don't approve of.
It's affecting your relationship.

Speaker 1 From From an outsider looking in, she is blowing up her life. And now, maybe her current husband and her high school sweetheart or whatever, maybe they're just like not each other's person long term.

Speaker 1 And that's definitely a possibility. But whatever she decides, she's clearly going about it in the most toxic way that is not only affecting her immediate relationship.

Speaker 1 with a person that regardless of whether she wants to spend the rest of her life with him, she is hurting this man in ways that like we quite, we currently don't know the damage that she is doing or will have done to this man, his psyche, his emotional health, his ability to move on, heal, whatever.

Speaker 1 Like she's only giving a fuck about herself. And it's gotten to the point where right now you are afraid that your, your relationship with your sister may never be the same going forward.

Speaker 1 So again, repeating that question, how do you feel like this current dynamic has helped her? I mean, because you're not a therapist, right?

Speaker 1 Like she doesn't pay you to give her therapy and she's not paying you for her mental health, but like, and you know, but like clearly, you listen and you're there for her.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure she gets things off her chest, but it is not resulting in her making healthy decisions for herself or her relationship with you or her relationship with her husband.

Speaker 1 And so, you know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, totally. In my mind, this relationship dynamic isn't serving either of you, right?

Speaker 1 And it's become a bit, you know, well-intentioned, no less. But I don't know, to to me, being there for people, especially in adult life,

Speaker 1 requires more than just

Speaker 1 this understanding that we will simply be that we will listen without any shame or judgment. You're a human being.
So you can promise your sister all you want, that you won't judge her.

Speaker 1 And you may do your best to hide how you feel.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, you are judging her, right? You, you, internally, you know, and whether your sister knows that or not, or feels that or not, it is happening.

Speaker 1 And so you are, in a way, not being honest with your sister either about how you feel about her actions.

Speaker 1 And so now you have this dynamic where you've kind of agreed to just listen without judgment, but like ultimately you're judging her inside.

Speaker 1 You're feeling more and more disconnected from your sister, you know, and again, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, if you're looking for answers of how to approach this, right?

Speaker 1 Because I'm guessing you feel like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Speaker 1 And like here you have this dynamic with your sister, this relationship, this understanding, this unspoken bond with your twin sister. And then she's also like making these choices.

Speaker 1 And you feel like, well, what do I do? You know, like, I, do I completely change the dynamic or, you know, do I address this? Or how do I handle that?

Speaker 1 And I'm here to say, like, this dynamic has stopped working for you guys. As you guys have grown into adulthood

Speaker 1 and discovered yourselves and realized maybe things that you want. Clearly, your sister is discovering herself into her early 30s as someone who's been with one man her whole life.

Speaker 1 And while I empathize with how that might be affecting her, these feelings, she's clearly making choices and covering for her choices and justifying her choices.

Speaker 1 And she has you aiding and abetting her choices. While you don't necessarily want to be doing that, that sounds like what you're doing.
And that has indirectly caused you two to become further apart.

Speaker 1 And so I think when you look at it it that way,

Speaker 1 I hope that makes you feel less

Speaker 1 obligated to this dynamic that you are worried about changing.

Speaker 5 Well, yeah, I mean, absolutely. And

Speaker 5 the fact of the matter is that, I mean, things have changed. Like now we, I mean, the last

Speaker 5 weeks and months, you know, probably for the, especially since the last like month or so, what, since she's moved back in with her husband, she still comes to me with some of the same problems she came to me about before.

Speaker 5 And now I'm giving like i mean i feel so mean to her i am and i am i'm telling her what's what i'm telling her everything i'm telling she's like she doesn't have that in me anymore and furthermore um out of like what are you telling her

Speaker 5 right now so she keeps um saying that she's ended all contact with the affair partner with whom she works um she they're they're both school teachers together in a small school they're both history teachers and they and they

Speaker 5 he's one you know door down so he she has sworn on like a you know a stack of bibles a million times it's over and then in a moment of like you know panic she'll tell me well it's over but also like he did you know there was like this kind of like whisper of like but you know but just like i'm gonna work things out with him maybe but then we'll see in the future you know kind of like this subterfuge and who knows so i've just been very very very angry at her very like verbally angry at her and and one important thing to note is that um since about january i've been speaking on the phone with my brother-in-law her husband um just about every day as kind of like his confident, a confidant as they kind of like get back together.

Speaker 5 And I am, I've never been, I've never felt closer to him. I've never felt, you know, more of a responsibility to him.

Speaker 5 I am more aware, I think, than my sister is of his pain, you know, without like the, you know, in the immediate way that they have their communications terrible with, with me.

Speaker 5 I've been like this kind of translator between the two of them.

Speaker 5 My boyfriend thinks that I'm like, you know, I mean, it's like, it's almost like I'm like trading, you know, international like stocks or something.

Speaker 5 I'm just like constantly on the phone with one, then the other, then the other.

Speaker 1 And do either of them know that?

Speaker 5 They both know that. They both know that I am like, yeah.

Speaker 5 I mean, they both know that. I'm like the third party in this crazy like threesome of reconciliation.
It's, I mean, I've like, it's wild.

Speaker 5 I mean, like right now, I just got a text from him, like, any news, any word? Like, here's what I feel today.

Speaker 1 Is he in therapy? Are they in therapy?

Speaker 5 So they, before they separated, they started therapy. And, but it was really just a means for my sister to tell him what's what and that they were going to separate.

Speaker 5 And now that they're kind of like, you know, they're living together again. And by all, you know, official like accounts, they're.

Speaker 5 They're getting back together. They are together again.

Speaker 5 They go like twice a week now to the same therapist and they've had a lot of good like breakthroughs and stuff, but it's just, you know, it's a lot of my brother-in-law expressing like what you know what the you hurt me so much like this is what you know like even before i found out about the affair you were so cruel and distant and i didn't know and then it's her just being like everyone's mad at me you know um so it's just like so like my opinion of her my respect for her you know it's i mean i'm just so tight with him is your is your sister an individual therapy Oh, no, no.

Speaker 5 She, I mean, they, they go, she goes, she meets with that their couple's therapist individually. I think like once every week or every two weeks, they both do, and then they come together.

Speaker 5 It's like part of like the

Speaker 5 procedure for how they're doing it, but it's not, but it's a, but it's like, but it's still part of the couple's therapy, not like her own. Gotcha.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it sounds like maybe your sister has a lot to unpack as an individual, maybe. I mean, you know, like she's obviously acting like the victim in a situation where she's the destroyer.

Speaker 1 You know, like,

Speaker 1 what can I help you with? Like, where are you at?

Speaker 5 Yeah. So, yeah, and I figured you would ask that because usually when it's like this, you know, messy, that's the question you ask.

Speaker 5 But I, um, so I, my, my biggest concern is that I want to, which is just because it's my own shit, but I'm, my biggest concern is making sure that I can, I, uh, you know, love and respect my sister again in the future, um, trying to, even though she's don't be doing a bad thing, because, you know, as we know, like people do bad things and it doesn't have to, but and now that I'm so involved, it's harder for me to, you know, feel that way.

Speaker 5 And also, um, I just really need her to, to focus on her relationship with her husband or not, or break up and leave me out of it.

Speaker 5 So these are questions that feels like we're breaking a twin bond, like a pact we've always had where I have to be like, no, this time for the first time in our big years, you know, like I, I'm, I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 5 It's killing me.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, that was kind of what was coming to mind. My question I was going to ask you was like, how often have you really told your sister no?

Speaker 5 Next to, next to never, you know.

Speaker 1 Well, sometimes, you know, listen, I, uh,

Speaker 1 I have a young daughter. She's 13 months.
Love her unconditionally, you know? I don't know. Not to, not that it's a competition, but I bet I love her just as much as you love her your sister, right?

Speaker 1 And like, part of loving my daughter, you know, is, is I'm going to have to tell her no, you know, lots of times. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, the whole like, oh, you know, she'll give me the eyes and whatever, but like, you know,

Speaker 1 saying no to someone doesn't mean you don't love them.

Speaker 5 I feel like to her, it almost would.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, that's her. That's her problem.

Speaker 1 But I'm telling you, objectively regardless of what you think or what your sister thinks it's a fact that you can love someone deeply care about them deeply and tell them no and i think it's a little toxic for anyone to think otherwise and if you feel like you can't show love to someone you say no to then something about that relationship is wrong or needs to be fixed or broken.

Speaker 5 Her therapist, my brother-in-law told me, because it's like, yeah, again, like, like i'm way too i'm so involved that i know things my sister doesn't know that he said and my brother-in-law doesn't know that she said it's all like this like crazy like hematology but he told me that it came out in therapy that you know the therapist believes that our relationship is in in a certain way a little bit too intimate and that you know it's also kind of like whose relationship you and your sister are you you and your you and your brother-in-law oh sorry my relationship with my sister and or her basically her relationship with me rather i want to clarify that

Speaker 1 whereas her relationship should her intimate relationship her most intimate relationship should be with him and maybe never was and like you know certainly isn't now so I just thought that was interesting that that's what the therapist said yeah I could see that I mean there's something going on with your relationship the more you talk about it that seems off to me well-intentioned no less but like off and like not serving either of you and now here you are playing therapist you're not a therapist and you can be a good friend and certainly a great sister and a good sister-in-law.

Speaker 1 And you can have the best intentions, but like also be careful, right? I'm sure you feel it too. You feel too involved, too lost.

Speaker 1 You're like not sure what side you're on, if you're in any side at all. You're connecting with your brother-in-laws in ways that honestly, your sister should probably be connecting with.

Speaker 1 It's just all very confusing. Not to mention, I can't imagine that you're, you said you have a boyfriend.

Speaker 1 Like, this is going to, this just, this is a, a virus, a toxic virus that just spreads like a disease, You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you are, you are part, you are, you've, you've caught the cold, so to speak. And so, again, you can be well intentioned, but like you are caught up in this.
You are part of this drama.

Speaker 1 And I think you need to be very careful as well as tension. And, you know, and like, obviously that's why you're calling in, you're asking for help.
I commend you for doing that.

Speaker 1 But like, you know, my advice is just also be careful.

Speaker 1 I think you need to start setting some healthy boundaries with both of them, more specifically your sister.

Speaker 5 Actually, my brother-in-law invited me to attend

Speaker 5 just because I'm like so involved anyway. And I come up in every conversation that they have with their therapist.

Speaker 5 They invited me to come to therapy a few times with them, which was kind of like when I, when I, you know, reached out to you.

Speaker 5 But I know that, you know, as I said in my, you know, when I, when I wrote into,

Speaker 5 aside from the obvious boundary issues, my twin sister is, she's been the, the things she's done, the things she continues to do every day.

Speaker 5 I, you know, I'm saying this in kind of like the stupid internet-y outy way, but I'm like narcissist, like,

Speaker 5 sure.

Speaker 5 And no empathy, no, no, like, like, absolutely nothing. Like the, you know, she will like fall on her knees crying about how her affair partner must be feeling right now.

Speaker 5 And then when I see her with her husband.

Speaker 5 as she like like i helped her move back some stuff the other day out of like her apartment that she was renting she like she was like begrudgingly i had to like make her move that stuff she was crying all over herself we brought in like three Tupperware things.

Speaker 5 So then, and like she walked in the door, placed it on the mirror and kind of just like, I'm here. No, no, everything's fine.
Everything's fine.

Speaker 5 And then he and I made, like, did our best to like make like, like, you know, some levity, some small talk or something. But just like, she can't even, she's like, just the cruelty.

Speaker 5 And it's not even just like, I'm not calling in to help them. She can call in, you know, someday to call, talk about how her relationship is.
But just like I watch that and my jaw is on the ground.

Speaker 5 And I'm just like, and there's nothing i like the the cruelty the the you know the just just the the obvious lack of empathy and when i speak to my brother-in-law about it i can't even deny it i'm just like

Speaker 5 this um this is not someone we've ever known to be so cold so and so and i just if i don't i i've always felt you know since i was a child and especially you know after we went to different colleges and stuff like that we've our our like little our bond has always been like such a an institution like a pillar in my life i don't have more i don't don't know if i i don't have my sister i don't i don't got you know and now i'm just like i like when was the last time you don't know all of it to see her the same ever yeah

Speaker 1 i feel like you listen i don't know your sister i don't know you very well this is obviously a bump in the road that's for sure you know uh i think i'm sure you heard me say it's just like i there have been you know Not maybe to that degree.

Speaker 1 We've all had times and periods in our life where we're going to look back and be ashamed of the person we were, you know, and maybe that's the spouts of narcissism, selfishness, self-centeredness.

Speaker 1 Sometimes we just, you know, get so caught up in our own bullshit that we come across to many people like your sister seems to be coming across to you. Right.
And again, definitely not a therapist.

Speaker 1 I'm not even in a position, even if I, she was here, I'm not in a position to diagnose, but like, I don't know. I'm going to just go ahead and bet that like.

Speaker 1 Your sister didn't magically become a narcissist, right?

Speaker 1 And that like, it's not as if right now you're looking back at your entire relationship and like for the first time ever seeing your sister in a whole new way and realizing that since the age of like 10, she's kind of been the narcissist,

Speaker 1 you know, and she's like some sociopath or whatever. That doesn't seem to be the case, right?

Speaker 1 You know, so she's going through something and, you know, certainly demonstrating narcissistic, you know, she's only caring about herself.

Speaker 1 So listen, you're, I'm optimistic that she can work through this, but to work through it, you know, you, you two might have to go through some periods of major reform.

Speaker 1 And that might require you to, what you, you know, you say, you know, if I'm not, if I don't have my sister, well, who am I?

Speaker 1 What you, you, look, this is also an opportunity for you to rediscover yourself as an individual. I don't know what it's like to be a twin or have a twin or that bond.

Speaker 1 And I have no doubt it's very special and something that you two have that most people who aren't twins don't have. That is not an excuse

Speaker 1 to look the other way or ignore bad behavior because you guys have such a bond that you need to basically be there to enable each other and approve of bad behavior in the spirit of being close.

Speaker 1 You might have to say, I don't know who you are anymore. I don't like who you've become right now.
I believe you as a person.

Speaker 1 I'm glad you're working through this, but like I'm no longer going to listen. and approve of things.
And if you want to be in my life, you get ready to start hearing exactly how I feel.

Speaker 1 I will always unconditionally love you, but I definitely do not like who you are right now. I don't like what you've become.
I don't approve of it. You can say things like, I'm just, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know how direct you want to be, but you have to, you know, without name calling and trying to hurt her, you have to start being honest with her.

Speaker 5 You just made me think of something too, actually.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 when we were, when we were really young, or not even really young, even just like, whatever, five years ago or something, I went through a series of like really hard things.

Speaker 5 I I was always the one who like, you know, I, you know, as soon as I could, I moved, you know, internationally. I did my own thing.

Speaker 5 I was away, you know, I was like kind of like living on the phone with my family for a long time, with my sister. It was all the time.

Speaker 5 I went through horrible, like long-term relationships, like things that were, you know, abusive, things that were really dangerous, things that weren't right for me, just like pretty dark stuff.

Speaker 5 And even though I spoke to her about it all the time, all the time, she knew every single single one.

Speaker 5 It was just almost kind of like this, you know, facade of just like, you know, encouragement, kind of just latent.

Speaker 5 Like, you know, she never, she never once gave me tough love or tried to, or, you know,

Speaker 5 out to save me or, you know, or demanded that I, you know, she never did that because it was kind of like to her, that was going against the, you know, if I didn't want to do it, then, then, you know, screw that.

Speaker 5 That's actually just you talking about that kind of just, that was the first time that popped into my brain to think about, like, as a comparison.

Speaker 1 I mean, it he wasn't never he was never there for me that way which in my in my opinion you know um and this is not this is more about friendships rather than you know brother or sister relationship dynamic but i know there's a lot of friends out there and i see it more with women than i do with men

Speaker 1 but there's a lot of friendships out there when you break it down the thing they're most there for each other is to keep each other secrets ah yeah and i know a lot of i know a lot of ladies or i've met a handful of ladies that like have friendships like that, you know, and that's what they value most about the relationship.

Speaker 1 When you break it down, they're there just to like,

Speaker 1 you know, they have that one friend who pulls some shit now and then and they can go to because everyone kind of needs to tell like one person, even if they're doing things they don't totally like like about themselves, because they want to find someone who can like

Speaker 1 kind of justify their choices and their excuses, you know, and things like that.

Speaker 1 you know but i don't know to me that's not a friendship and and and yeah or you know and so it sounds to me like a lot of someone who won't bother you, someone who won't tell mom or won't tell whatever.

Speaker 5 So that like they're not.

Speaker 1 Here you are talking about toxic relationships, borderline, dangerous relationships that you are a part of.

Speaker 1 And your sister knew every ounce of it, every truth of that relationship and did nothing about it other than just make you feel like hurt.

Speaker 5 And even validated. Like if I say, but it's fine, you know, it's like, yeah, damn straight, it's fine.
You know,

Speaker 1 slay twin, you're the pet, you know, that's what she and honestly it's like almost as if now she's like cashing in

Speaker 1 her uh her chips as i were there for you when you were making your self-centered selfish or self-destructive choices maybe they weren't even self-centered maybe they were coming from a place of pain or or whatever but like whatever the reason she now feels like you're supposed to accept her choices Right.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 to me, you're right. Like you can't fix your sister.
You can't fix them.

Speaker 1 You know, you can try to be there for them, I think, with limitations, but you have gone so far, you know, like they're inviting you to therapy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 And as Abby said, and for both of them. And I know, like, this is, you know, I'm not going to just like add on another question.
That's not how it works.

Speaker 5 But it's also like, it's been so destructive to my.

Speaker 5 my relationship with my boyfriend. We lived together.
We've lived together for, you know, a long time.

Speaker 5 You know, he knows everything.

Speaker 5 I like, you know, I tell, like, and he is just such a, you know, more of like a, you know, Nick Vile kind of, you know, just kind of like, you know, he sees it as it is without the, um, like he, well, it's not his twin.

Speaker 5 So he's not going to, you know, so his just like his, you know, it's all I can do to keep him from when she comes over like in the middle of the night to cry in my arms.

Speaker 5 It's, he's like, it's all he can do to just be like, twin, like, what the hell? Like, just like, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 This is all like my, you know, my partner thinks about, lives, breathes, like works, leaves work to talk to you, like takes like a call from you when we're on, you know, a Valentine's date, like, or when we're on a trip.

Speaker 5 And, you know,

Speaker 1 you got to stop that.

Speaker 1 It's toxic. It's unhealthy.
It's not productive.

Speaker 1 And that's a you problem.

Speaker 5 100%.

Speaker 1 Are you in therapy?

Speaker 5 I've, you know, I, uh, I've, that's actually really interesting because I'm, um, that you asked that because I'm, um, I've done therapy. I'm not currently in therapy.

Speaker 5 Um, I'm, I'm, um, changing careers. I'm going to, I'm going to mental health, a clinical mental health counseling graduate school program in the fall.
Awesome. Which I think is, yeah.

Speaker 5 So it's just really interesting. I'm fascinated by it.
I think like could be something I could be good at there.

Speaker 1 But I potentially. But like right now,

Speaker 5 it's ironic because I'm not in therapy currently. I just always feel like, oh, it didn't work in the first few months.
I'm out of here.

Speaker 1 Or maybe you just need to find it. Did you listen to a lot of people? Maybe you just need to find a different.

Speaker 1 Sure, but maybe you need to find a different therapist, you know? Like, maybe, you know, it's like doctors are different, mechanics are different.

Speaker 1 You don't just start with one give it a couple shots and then quit if it doesn't like yeah help but clearly you have a lot to unpack you know like you know therapy and also therapy isn't the end all be all i do think sometimes people can over therapize themselves i think sometimes you need like therapy sometimes you might need to take breaks from it you know maybe you need to find a new gym so to speak uh a new trainer you know a new therapist you know like it's not like oh there oh are you you know i'm not saying are you in therapy as if like it's the end all be all but clearly you have a lot to unpack and work through and discuss And it's affecting you and your life and your relationships.

Speaker 1 And you're not seeing the forest through the trees. You can't even set healthy boundaries with your sister, let alone enforce them.
And it's affecting your life. Right.
You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, without like breaking it down and,

Speaker 1 you know, giving you some sort of fake therapy session, like, yeah, the short answer is you need to make some drastic changes.

Speaker 1 in your life when it comes to your relationship with your sister and your brother-in-law. If I were you, I would kind of cut it off.

Speaker 1 I would, you know, reach out to both your sister and brother-in-law and say, I can't keep doing this. I can't be your guys' therapist.

Speaker 1 And you can let your brother-in-law know, like, listen, like, I'm saying the same thing to her. I'm not trying to leave you on an island.

Speaker 1 And you can give him your last bit of advice that you might have, which is like, I don't know, like he needs to be open to leaving her,

Speaker 1 in my opinion. The fact that she still works with this guy, until she stops working with this guy, it's never going to be over.

Speaker 5 Oh, my gosh. I'm so actually amazed that you just said that because that's like one of the biggest things.

Speaker 5 And I've been like, so for on her for weeks, I was like, no, because she's been like, she's about to get tenure. It's kind of like an important school, you know, whatever, whatever.

Speaker 5 And she, and she'll just get into a panic, like a hysteria, like, no, no, no, no, I just could like, you know, I've worked so hard to be here.

Speaker 5 And my brother-in-law is just like, I mean, and he was, I mean, at first, he was just like, I mean, maybe you can, but now it's just it, so like their, their reconciliation has gone just about as bad as it could go because he's she's sketchy, she's sketchy, sketchy.

Speaker 1 But um, um, how old is your brother-in-law?

Speaker 5 A few years older. He's like three years older.

Speaker 1 so i think he's like you know 37 38 something like that all right well he's not that old yet so if i'm yeah if i'm his friend

Speaker 1 like tall super educated hilarious like i love to know if i'm if i'm his friend i would love to find yeah if i'm his friend i'm telling him to serve you know listen like people like sadly this shit happens relationships have to deal with it like there's literally a million different types of affairs from emotional to physical and everything in between.

Speaker 1 And like, you know, like, listen, like, sadly, it is a reality that relationships have to face.

Speaker 1 But like, when it comes to this aspect of it, now that like the cat's out of the bag and the person knows it's happened and they're like on the fence between like, do I work through this and forgive and yada, yada.

Speaker 1 But your sister currently is just like, what she's doing to him is like, honestly, to me, like a hundred times worse than the initial act itself. Now she's just fucking torturing this guy.
He agrees.

Speaker 1 You know, and like what she's doing is honestly kind of evil and bullshit.

Speaker 5 The affair partner

Speaker 5 who I've met is, he could have been anybody.

Speaker 5 I mean, my sister has never, I mean, like, I always tell her, I was like, so you literally just decided to throw your life away and fall in love with almost like the first man that you've ever been any kind of close with at all in any capacity.

Speaker 5 He is 57. He is a, I've met him.
He's a barfly. It doesn't, it doesn't matter.
He's

Speaker 5 been divorced many times. He is,

Speaker 5 I mean, he's, he's kind of like the king of the, of the the bar, you know, that kind of charisma. Like everyone likes to have a laugh with him.
Um, we went, I, he drove me somewhere once.

Speaker 5 We were all going to a wedding and this, the affair partner wasn't going to the wedding, but, um, and in like the back seat, there were like just like empty beer cans from the night before.

Speaker 1 Like, listen, here's the thing.

Speaker 5 He's like, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 I don't care.

Speaker 1 I don't care.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 1 I don't.

Speaker 5 It's just, he's not even good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't care. It doesn't matter.
Does it what?

Speaker 1 But think about, you know, who cares? Like, what if he was?

Speaker 1 i mean first of all i know he's not a great guy given like the role he's playing in this relationship doesn't mean he's not a bad guy but like does it matter it doesn't matter let's say he was a harvard grad and had zillions of dollars and he was slightly better looking than your brother-in-law does it just does it change anything would you be like oh well i guess he's a bit of a catch so now i understand your choices sister What would change is that I wouldn't keep coming to like this weird realization about my sister, which is like, it doesn't matter who it was.

Speaker 5 This isn't even real. It's all about you and you're like, you know, you're

Speaker 1 selfish. He doesn't need a piece of shit to know that.

Speaker 5 She loves feeling wanted by someone. And that was, and that's like, and that's how shallow it is.
And it was enough to throw somebody she's been with tours for since we were 19 away.

Speaker 5 Like, that's scary. It wasn't even like, I like, there's no part of me that believes.
that this was love. It was about

Speaker 1 feeling appreciated. Once again, like you're,

Speaker 1 you know, clearly, I mean, it's your twin sister, so I get it, but this is a, this is how toxic this has become for you. And you're not even capable of giving good advice.

Speaker 1 You're, you're trying to understand it. It's affected you.
It's changed how you see things. You're so close to your sister.
Like, you just, you're trying to justify it for your sister in a weird way.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, I think you just have to over, you have to simplify this, not, not make it more complicated, but like you are so fucking caught up in this that you are just so like, it's, it's become your whole identity.

Speaker 1 Damn, nick you saying that makes so much that man that seems really true and that had not occurred to me until right now damn okay well that's so lame i'm so yeah it's not lame you know it's just it's understandable right like you know anyone listening you don't have to be a twin we've all heard the stories about connections with twins, right?

Speaker 1 No, you don't have to be a twin to like understand that this must be a very painful and difficult situation for you, that you have the absolute best intentions.

Speaker 1 But like you need to recognize whether it's from me or a therapist or a friend that's kind of like here to like grab you by the shoulders a little bit and kind of shake you a little bit and say, you got to stop.

Speaker 1 You can't save your sister. And you can't save your relationship with your sister on your own.
I don't care that you guys are twins.

Speaker 1 It's whether it's a brother, a sister dynamic, sister, sister, parent-child relationship. You can only do 100% of your half to make this relationship work.
And your sister is responsible for her half.

Speaker 1 And right now, you're trying to do all of yours and most of hers because she's this broken bird who blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And like, that's just like, you're not doing you or your sister or that relationship any good because you can't make up for the lack of work that the other person needs to do.

Speaker 1 And this is just my humble opinion. This is not medical.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe someone's smarter than me to say I'm wrong, but I just don't think there's exceptions to that rule in terms of temporarily sure like listen we all have to be there for people sometimes we have to step up and people are down when our partners get sick we do more chores around the house you know when nally's not feeling well you know i try to step up and vice versa but for extended periods of time like that's not sustainable right and right now you are trying to like do all the work for your

Speaker 1 kyle you're doing the work for her marriage let alone your relationship with her yeah i mean that's

Speaker 1 And you got to stop. You just have to stop.

Speaker 1 And like, this won't get any better until you finally set some healthy boundaries with your sister for your relationship and your brother-in-law and just stop.

Speaker 1 Not let your sister come over in the middle of the night. Not let her call.
Stop taking her calls. You can give her the heads up.
Things are going to drastically change.

Speaker 1 And then you have to follow through and enforce that. And hope.
that this is a wake-up call and that losing her sister will be maybe a way for her to change. I doubt she sees it right away.

Speaker 1 I'm sure she'll kick and scream and throw a fit and say a bunch of mean things that hurt your feelings, but she is just going to have to work through it because this is clearly some kind of like childhood temper tantrum.

Speaker 1 And listen, I empathize with her. She chose you had a different path.
You experienced life in your 20s and she got hitched up and she played house all through her 20s and it probably was fun and good.

Speaker 1 And like she felt that probably there are times in her relationship with her now husband where she felt like she was the most in love person from her high school and that while her sister was struggling with her relationships, she was in love and happy.

Speaker 1 And you've heard me make jokes to all the people who are like calling in and, you know, all my friends are in love and dating. And I'm like, well, half of them will be divorced in five years anyways.

Speaker 1 And now your sister, you know what I'm saying? And now

Speaker 1 the dynamic has changed, but now your sister is blaming her decisions in the past to justify her decisions in the present. And you are complicit.
You are an accomplice.

Speaker 1 You know, you are, you're, you're like the person who like, it's as if, you know, let's say sweet boy Justin, who's sitting right here, was like, came up to me, called me up.

Speaker 1 He's like, Nick, there's this bank I want to rob. I have all the plans.
I know I'm going to do it. I'm like, Justin, I don't know if that's a really good idea.
I think that's kind of bad.

Speaker 1 It's also illegal. You get in a lot of trouble.
And

Speaker 1 I keep saying the same thing. I never agree to it.
I never condone it. But like, I show up to the bank with him.
And while he's robbing the bank, I'm like, are you sure you want to do this?

Speaker 1 I don't think you should do this. And he brings the bag out, puts the cash in the bag.
And all the while I'm like, I think you should not do this, man. And then, like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, you're still, you would still get arrested. I would still get a rest, you know, I'm an accomplice.
And that's literally what you're doing with your sister. Damn.

Speaker 1 It's like, you're just along for the ride. And like, you're like the angel on her shoulder that's like kind of allowing her, not allowing her, but you're not really stopping her.

Speaker 1 You're just like, I don't know if you should do that. Like, I think that's wrong.

Speaker 1 But like, you're showing up to the scene of the crime and hanging out with this guy, getting to know this other fucking guy for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 you're just doing crazy shit that you shouldn't be doing.

Speaker 5 That all of that is such a, I mean, like, yes, that is, that's, that's all so true.

Speaker 5 And what you just said right now about the even getting to know the other guy, like kind of like doing in every like cell of my body, like implicitly, explicitly, like condoning everything.

Speaker 5 And at this point now, it's been so long. What you said to me, like, a few minutes ago about like, it making it my thing to be doing this, like that really hit me like a ton of bricks just now.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, like something is

Speaker 5 like, like, it's my, like, like, like, once this is over, I'm so involved and it's been so long and it's been changing, but it's always fucking terrible.

Speaker 5 Like, I, like, I'm going to have to, like, pay attention to my boyfriend, get a hobby.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, I would get a therapist.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would get a therapist and unpack this in therapy. Because you can't unpack it with your boyfriend over and over.
You're going to exhaust him and you're going to exhaust your friends.

Speaker 1 And quite honestly, sometimes that's what a therapist is for.

Speaker 1 You pay a stranger who like knows, who's like met, who's trained in this stuff to kind of hear you out, let you vent so that you don't like cannibalize your meaningful relationships with shit that's just like toxic and

Speaker 1 you ruminate and you say over and over and you don't realize how much of a broken record you sound like and just how animated you get when you talk about this.

Speaker 1 Listen, you're invested, you're useful, you're necessary,

Speaker 1 you're needed. These are all things that as human beings, we crave in any type of relationship.
And the problem sometimes, as is the case in your relationship, they manifest in forms of like toxicity.

Speaker 1 And while even though like the feeling of being needed and necessary are inherently good feelings, they're coming out in ways that aren't really healthy.

Speaker 1 And yet you're, you're, and that's what's motivating you to like stay in it, right? But you have to see that. You have to rise above it.

Speaker 1 You kind of have to have an outside body of experience and see what you're doing, recognize it, and not justify your choices by how you feel in the moment, right? Because that's what we do, right?

Speaker 1 I'm glad that as a society, we've been more mindful about what we say and do and how it affects other people's feelings and things like that.

Speaker 1 But like we have gone too many steps further and using all of our feelings is a way to justify choices, period.

Speaker 1 And as long as it makes us feel good and doesn't cause us to quote unquote hurt other people, somehow that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 And that's just not reality, as in case by like your situation now, because you have these feelings of feeling needed and feeling necessary and feeling like you're helping.

Speaker 1 These are all good things, but yet you're not helping. And it's, again, like it's a very toxic situation and you've been pulled into the toxic situation and you can't get out of this.

Speaker 1 And so instead of continuing to feel needed, necessary and helpful, you simply just need to stop and you need to set that boundary, enforce that boundary and let your sister work her shit out.

Speaker 1 And certainly you can be there for her, but being there for her needs to change and needs to, you know, be like, yeah, I mean, listen, if you're like, honestly, if your life's on the line or whatever, I'm not going to be there for you in the way there used to be being there for you.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to listen to your bullshit. I'm not going to be your alias.
I'm not going to be your partner in crime.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to be there while you choose to leave, make these destructive choices. And you can be mad at me, but like, this is, you know, we're not 19 anymore.
I'm not 23.

Speaker 1 And just because you had your, had my back in this way five years ago, I'm not going to have your back in this way now because we were wrong for doing that. And it's not leading to healthy choices.

Speaker 1 Our

Speaker 1 life right now is worse because of this situation. Our life around us, my relationship with my boyfriend, your relationship with your husband, it's all worse because of this toxic situation.

Speaker 1 And I refuse to be brought down with it.

Speaker 5 That is all so true.

Speaker 5 And I just keep like, you really did like, I don't know, I felt like I got kind of bowled over before thinking about the me of everything, but like the like when this, when I do that, when I tell you, when I do what

Speaker 5 you and I are agreeing that I should do, there's going to be a big emptiness that I'm going to have to fill with like my own shit. And that,

Speaker 5 man,

Speaker 5 I've talked about this so much with so many people. And like that, I don't know.
I don't think I really became super. cognizant of that being some like fear of mine until until today.
So

Speaker 1 well, maybe that's a little bit of a breakthrough, but like, you know, listen. Man, it's it's going to be a tough journey.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It will be harder before it's easier.

Speaker 1 But, you know, you got to think of, you got to think of, you know, she, the good news, like, this is your sister, right?

Speaker 1 So I don't, you know, I don't know how long both of you have on this earth, but like, let's just assume it's a bit, you know, you're both really young and you have to think about your life together, not what your life is next week with your sister.

Speaker 1 You got to think about like life 10 years from now because maybe your brother-in-law will be in it. Maybe he won't, but she'll still be your twin sister.

Speaker 1 If you have, you, I bet you'd be willing to sacrifice a handful of months or even years if that meant that you and your sister could be closer than ever for the rest of your lives.

Speaker 1 But she needs to figure her shit out, you know, and you have to stop being her accomplice.

Speaker 5 This is really helpful. Yeah, you're the only person I've spoken about this who wasn't at least somehow like laterally involved, like either in like my life or hers.

Speaker 5 So like that was, I think, an important thing for me in thinking about it.

Speaker 1 If I were you, I would start looking for a therapist. I would give it a shot and be picky, right? Like, you know,

Speaker 1 it might take you a while before you find a really good therapist.

Speaker 1 In the meantime, even a bad therapist will hear you out and let you just unload on them instead of unloading on your boyfriend, unloading with your sister or some other friend.

Speaker 1 And hopefully you'll get some good advice.

Speaker 1 But you need to know, regardless of what your therapist, your next therapist, good or bad, or how you connect with them, that like, you know, you don't need a therapist to know that you probably need to stop this type of behavior and you need to distance yourself from this toxic situation and you need to set some healthy boundaries with your sister and setting healthy boundaries with anyone is never a bad thing even though again like i always say like i don't care if it's your twin sister or a coworker setting a boundary with someone is limiting their access to you and you usually do that when their access to you has become toxic and no one likes a boundary set for themselves because whatever they're getting from you they like it and they want more of it and that's why you feel compelled to set a boundary because they they, they now expect it.

Speaker 1 They are, they feel entitled to it. And that's why usually we have to set boundaries and say, no, you can't have this anymore.

Speaker 1 And no one in the history of the world has you, you know, has been like, oh, yeah, okay, cool. I'll start.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe sometimes people realize they've been getting like something for free for too long and they're just waiting for someone to like send the receipts. But like, usually it doesn't happen that way.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Well, damn.
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Me too.

Speaker 5 This was actually, this is, this was big for me.

Speaker 5 i thought the conversation was going to go such a different way and it was going to be more just like me dishing about my sister and like all the nuances of like their tour to fare and you didn't that was like not what you wanted and this was actually what i needed

Speaker 1 i can't help your sister she's not here um yeah

Speaker 1 no i know i know i really i really appreciate you nick and that um thank you so much for talking to me uh my pleasure and certainly like obviously you know from an entertainment standpoint fascinating story we are we're very invested but like you know very very relatable, and we appreciate you opening up.

Speaker 1 Would certainly love an update.

Speaker 1 Now, I don't want an update so that you can, you know, talk about it, but if there is a real update and some meaningful change, we would love to hear about it because obviously, whether it's a twin sister or a sibling, you know, shit like this is far more common than people want to acknowledge or realize.

Speaker 1 And there's always something we can learn from it.

Speaker 1 So like if you make some healthy progress one way or the other, whether it's jumping into therapy, setting a boundary with your sister, and again, fully expect this to get worse before it gets better better in terms of your closeness with your sister or, you know, you, you, your, your brother-in-law might feel a certain way when you cut him off too.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 1 And I would just say to your brother, like, listen, I, your brother-in-law, I would say, listen, I, I love you. I hope you know that.

Speaker 1 I, I would love for you guys to be together forever, but you need to start worrying about yourself because right now, just so you know, I'm kind of in some ways changing my relationship with my sister because right now, while I still love her and I think she's a great person and I see the good in her and I'm never going to abandon her,

Speaker 1 she is not a healthy person right now. And she's a, she's a dangerous person to be emotionally invested in and like, you know, certainly work through it.

Speaker 1 But like my last bit of advice for you is, I don't know if this is it for you because right now she's, she's not, she's making choices for herself and no one else.

Speaker 5 Right. Right.

Speaker 1 But you need to stop. After that, you need to stop.
You need to kind of have your, a goodbye call with both of them. And then you need to like enforce that boundary.

Speaker 1 And you can let them know, like, I just, I can't, I'm not going to fix this. I can't fix this.
And all it's done is brought me into your situation. I've tried, but it's now affecting.

Speaker 1 And you can be a little bit more honest with your brother-in-law about like, she's, you know,

Speaker 1 I don't trust her right now. I don't think you should either.
And that's going to feel like a violation from your sister.

Speaker 5 That is the actual truth. And you're right when I say I do love him.
And I do love her. And I, and like that, and that is true.

Speaker 1 And you can tell, I mean, how honest you want to be you can tell your sister that you said that to him I mean I wouldn't lie to anyone stop you know stop playing both sides just be fucking honest say the same thing to both of them and then say goodbye not like real goodbye but you know what I'm saying well my my boyfriend would be if you know if if he listens to this he's going to be skipping for joy because it's been it's been my preoccupation for a while well maybe thank your boyfriend for saying some of the same things I've probably said and like you're just willing to listen to me because I'm some third party who's not invested so like maybe give him some acknowledgement and like it may be a little bit of like, hey, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because you have obviously alienated yourself and your relationship in the sake of being there for your sister.

Speaker 5 Correct.

Speaker 1 So, all right.

Speaker 5 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 5 Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 My pleasure. I'm sorry you're going through this.
It obviously sucks, but like you have a lot of control that you don't feel like you have.

Speaker 1 And I think that's needs to be this, you know, your lasting takeaway of this. And so stop being a victim in the situation.
It's a shitty situation. I understand that.

Speaker 1 You wish you could fix it on your own. You can't, but you still have a lot of control in a situation that you've honestly probably made more worse than better.

Speaker 5 I think you might be right.

Speaker 5 All right. Well, thanks, Nick.

Speaker 1 All right. Take care.
Truly. All right.
All right. Bye, guys.

Speaker 1 I'm going to set the stage for you. You need some furniture.
You went online, you found a piece that you looked for. You're like, ooh, great.
I'll have this.

Speaker 1 And then you go to order and it's like, this will be available in four months. Well, not with Article.

Speaker 1 Article is fully stocked with all of their lineups and most of their pieces are ready to ship the moment you order them.

Speaker 3 Article makes it effortless to create a stylish and long-lasting home at an unbeatable price.

Speaker 3 Article offers a curated range of mid-century modern, coastal, and scandy-inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other article product.

Speaker 3 This thoughtful design approach makes it so incredibly easy to mix and match, helping you create a space that feels cohesive and stylish.

Speaker 3 We have some amazing article pieces here in the studio, at home.

Speaker 3 We've got these like luxurious beanbag layout chairs that honestly I will repurchase time and time again, no matter where we go, no matter what we do, I will always take these pieces from Article because they're so good.

Speaker 3 They're so high quality.

Speaker 1 You can immediately tell the difference in quality when you receive article pieces. It's truly top notch.
And they have such a great fun selection for every room in your house, indoors, outdoors.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter. Article has it all.
And if you are looking to upgrade any furniture in your house today, check out Article for some amazing options. And their customer service is top-notch.

Speaker 1 If by some miracle, you're not obsessed with your article furniture, you can exchange it or return it at your convenience and ease. They make that process super easy and stress-free.

Speaker 1 Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more to claim. Visit article.com/slash V-I-A-L-L, and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

Speaker 1 That's article.com slash V-I-A-L-L for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

Speaker 1 Scaling your business requires the right expertise at the right time. With Upwork, you can find specialized freelancers in marketing, development, design, and more.

Speaker 1 Experts who are ready to help you take your business to the next level.

Speaker 3 With more than two decades of experience, with a simple and ambitious goal to pioneer a better way of working, companies at every stage turn to Upwork to get things done and find more flexibility in the way that they staff key projects and initiatives by accessing a global marketplace filled with top talent in IT, web, dev, AI, design, admin, support, marketing, and more.

Speaker 3 Posting a job on Upwork is easy with no cost to join.

Speaker 1 You can register, browse freelancer profiles get help drafting a job post or even book a consultation from there you can connect with freelancers that get you and can easily hire them to take your business to the next level upwork makes the entire process easier simpler and more affordable with industry low fees post a job today and hire tomorrow with upwork visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

Speaker 1 That is upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwork.com, upwork.com.

Speaker 1 Ah, greetings for my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 1 No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets.
Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 1 Save the offer in the app. NS1231, see paypal.com/slash promo terms.
Points can be renewed for cash more more paying for, subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc.
at MLS 910-457.

Speaker 6 El loceano nos mueve. Surfian unaola o disrutando el paisaje.
El loceano nos deleta. Con nutrias que restauron vosques de algas costeras.
Elosano nos connecta.

Speaker 6 Visita Monterrey Bay Aquarium punto ore que via gunal conecta.

Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 5 Hi, my name's Carly. I'm 26 years old, and I wanted to know if the D1 quarterback athlete I was talking to was manipulating me, or am I just being dramatic?

Speaker 1 Probably a little bit of both. Tell me what's going on.

Speaker 5 Okay, so we started talking in December.

Speaker 5 He used to play for the school that I went to. So where I went to school and where I live now is about an hour apart.
So I go back there a lot, games, all that other kind of stuff.

Speaker 5 We met, you know, just hit it off. He's 22, just to give

Speaker 5 in his last year, 26. Okay.

Speaker 5 So, yeah. So he's like in his last year, like kind of like grad grad moment, trying to make it type of deal.

Speaker 5 So he's 22 and

Speaker 5 we got connected through Snapchat, you know, let me get your Snapchat, which immediately should have been like, whatever, but he was just like, what's your Snapchat? And I was like, okay, cool.

Speaker 5 Like we were at the bars. It wasn't a big deal.
Okay.

Speaker 5 That's how we started talking. We talked for a while.
And then I had to go back up to that school to see a friend. went there, hung out with him.
We did like hang out for the whole day pretty much.

Speaker 5 And then we ended up like hooking up.

Speaker 5 But after that, it was, and I knew that. I wasn't like trying to get into anything serious or anything like that.

Speaker 5 But after that, we started talking a lot more consistently, like chatting all day, every day. And mind you, this is like important, an important part of the story.

Speaker 5 our messaging was through snapchat at this time he had asked for my number but when we were talking like the hey good mornings hey everything it was through snapchat it wasn't pictures but it was like through the chat function so like we weren't using snapchat as what Snapchat was really used for.

Speaker 5 Here and there, we would send like pictures of like whatever, but it was mostly used for the texting function, even though he had my number, whatever.

Speaker 5 But he would call me through regular number, FaceTime, through our regular phone numbers, but our like messaging was through Snapchat.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, let me pause you for a second. Uh, I got two questions.
Well, one statement, yes, and then two questions. My statement is: it's not whatever,

Speaker 1 okay?

Speaker 1 And then my first question is: at this point,

Speaker 1 try to bring yourself back in your memory. But at this point, what was your like intentions with this guy? What did you think was realistic? What was going on in your head?

Speaker 1 Like, what were you pursuing? And two, my second question is, like, why do you think he was texting you on Snapchat versus calling you on your phone?

Speaker 5 Did you say why?

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, why? Like, you're like, oh, whatever, as if like it's some sort of like,

Speaker 1 you know, either you're acting like it's a coincidence or he put no thought into it whatsoever and it just happens to be what he's doing. It's like it doesn't really mean anything.

Speaker 1 When you say you whatever, it's like this loaded statement of all these like assumptions and projections. And I'm asking you, like, why, why do you think he was Snapchatting you?

Speaker 5 Yeah, fair. So one, my intentions at first, it was just like, in my eyes, it was like, oh, like.

Speaker 5 the like it's he's an athlete like i have no expectation it was more fun he was really cool we hit it off because he's like you're like a i don't give a fuck kind of girl like you're older like you don't like he made it seem like all these girls were obsessed with him and i was the only one that was kind of like yeah like you're cool like we'll hang out but i never was like i never gave him like what do you mean that i was like what do you mean he made it seem yeah he would say like oh like i'm not used to like girls like not like snap like talking to me right away or answering my calls or like begging to hang out like you're not like that you have like your own stuff going right all right so he said that i'm saying to you and today as of today like you you're you're saying it as if he was manipulating or being insincere or lying.

Speaker 1 Are you, is that how you feel today in this moment about those things he said?

Speaker 5 No, at that time, I like really believed it. And then kind of fast forward, everything.
We were talking a lot, hanging out a lot. And then he got moved to a different team.
So it all kind of changed.

Speaker 5 He got moved, transferred to a different team, all of that. And our conversation kind of died down a little bit.

Speaker 5 Like for a long time, for like two, three months, he was begging to hang out, seeing me, like all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 5 And then he moved, he moved there. And again, with the Snapchat thing, to know you guys are talking to each other the most, this sounds so stupid as a 26-year-old saying this.
I know that now.

Speaker 5 You have like a heart, like a colored heart.

Speaker 1 Like a streak or something or whatever.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that shows that we both talk to each other the most.

Speaker 5 Well, we had a conversation because, you know, he moved and all of that. and we weren't talking as much.
And I was like, I knew that it wasn't really going anywhere just because of who he is.

Speaker 5 He would mention that, you know, all these girls that he like used to talk to and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 Then I was like, okay, cool. Like, obviously, like, you're really busy, you're going through a lot.
You're, you just transferred to a new team. And, you know, that's totally cool.

Speaker 5 There just doesn't really seem like there's like kind of a place for us right now. And I was okay with that at the time.
I knew what I was getting into before I got into it.

Speaker 5 I like have like, had like a crush on him, but I wasn't, I didn't know him enough to be like, I want to date you. I want to like make this something more.

Speaker 5 And in my head, I also knew even if I wanted that, him being 22, him just kind of the ego that he has recognizing that. And almost that's okay.
Like you're 22, you're an athlete.

Speaker 5 You have a lot of, you know, availability to you. I was like, I just don't, even if I wanted to date you, I knew what I was getting, I knew that where it was going.
Okay.

Speaker 5 So I wasn't trying to fight for the relationship. I wasn't like, hey, I really like you.
I'd like to be exclusive. Like, because I knew even if I put that, I just, I'm 26.

Speaker 5 I know at this point where that was going to go. Okay.
So I just said, hey,

Speaker 5 you know, you seem really busy because like I said, we were, everything was consistent for a while until he moved four hours away to a new team.

Speaker 5 And I was like, you're really, and he kept saying, I'm really busy. I'm really busy.
And in my head, I'm like, no one's ever that busy.

Speaker 5 And then he kept saying, well, you've never talked to an athlete before. So you don't know what it's like.
When I say I'm busy, it's not just a regular guy. I'm busy.
It's.

Speaker 5 I have all these practices I have. And then when I get home, I don't always want to talk to someone.
So like you say they're excuses, but they're not excuses.

Speaker 5 And in my head, I'm like, I feel like they're still excuses because like you didn't have two seconds to like call. And like, I'm not trying to be needy.
I wasn't trying to like tell him what to do.

Speaker 5 But in my head, when someone wants to talk to you, they will, even if it's a little, hey, I had a really busy day. I'd love to call you later or I'll talk to you tomorrow.
I've had a really busy day.

Speaker 5 Just a little bit of communication goes a long way. But in his head, it's like he wants to do it his way.

Speaker 5 So I tried to like, and, and that was fine. He wasn't getting what I was saying.
And I'm not going to like argue with someone to make someone call me or text me. So I was just like, hey, no big deal.

Speaker 5 You seem really busy. You have a lot going on.
I just think that it's best if we go our own ways. And like he immediately responded and he was like, well, I didn't see that coming.

Speaker 5 Like, they're not excuses. Like, you keep saying they're excuses and they're not.
Sure. So from there, I was like, okay, maybe you're, maybe you're being genuine.
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 I've never talked to an athlete before. So I have no idea.
exactly how rigorous your schedule are. You are

Speaker 5 there. You seem busy.
These, he's in, he goes to a really good school for football.

Speaker 5 so like i felt like i maybe i was wrong so that happened and then i still there were signs and there was feelings in me that was like i feel like he's talking to someone else because the communication slows down you don't ask to hang out for a month like all these little signs that kind of i knew in my gut weren't just i'm busy and then i kind of let it go i was just like i'm just going to see how things go i'm not going to like bother him like much.

Speaker 5 I'm just going to let like play it out. That's when I think the text that I sent in, in, we, the Snapchat heart disappeared, which means he was talking to someone way more than he was talking to me.

Speaker 5 And in my head, I was like, boom, okay.

Speaker 5 Everything that I knew is kind of clicking together. And that's when the texts come in about him

Speaker 5 saying,

Speaker 5 you know, how dare a 26 year old act like this? I sent you $1,000 for Valentine's Day. I sent you flowers.

Speaker 5 all of these things like i always send you money when you go out to go eat like i always like try to give you these little things to to show you that like i still like with you and so he just kept saying i can't believe you're ending this over a snapchat heart like a snapchat heart you really cared that much about a snapchat heart and i'm like it's not about the snapchat heart that was just like the cherry on top of what i already knew and he just kept saying over and over in the text messages and i kind of kept just saying it's not about the heart i wasn't going on and on i was just saying it's not about the heart and he was like you're crazy that you're a 26 year old and you're acting like this you know you're being crazy right now you know that you're overreacting you know blah blah blah blah blah and i was like does he really think this is about a snapchat heart like it's not it's

Speaker 5 confirming what do you think what i knew um and then fast forward where we are today i let i he kind of blew up my phone a little bit about it and i was like he's not getting it this is not about the snapchat heart i'm not going to keep going back and forth the conversation to try to tell you it's not about a snapchat heart you know it's not and then i let two days go by i didn't respond to his texts he stopped texting me he stopped calling me because he was trying to when that all happened and i just called him because i was like in my head i was it was kind of my ego but i was like i don't want him to think that i'm immature and i ended this over a snapchat heart like i want him to know why i was like over it um and then i called him and he was like you know you were being ridiculous it's not about the snapchat heart i am going through a lot like i really care about you i really like want to like see where things go i see a future with you and stuff like you're really cool like you're someone i want to talk to it's just i hate the team that i've transferred to i don't with anybody here everyone sucks I'm going through a lot with my family.

Speaker 5 Like everything in my life, it just feels like it's going on and on. And then like you, and then you were like my piece of things.
Like I felt like we didn't have any issues.

Speaker 5 And then randomly, you just like blew up on me about this Snapchat heart and freaking out about this stuff.

Speaker 5 And then basically

Speaker 5 he wanted me to recognize that I was being dramatic about the heart and about everything. And he even said, oh, like you wanted that YSL purse.
Like I wouldn't even have gotten that for a girlfriend.

Speaker 5 I was going to give you you the $800 because he had given me $1,000 for Valentine's Day just because. And the YSL purse that I wanted is like $1,800.

Speaker 5 And he was like, well, I was going to give you the $800 more. And then you pulled that bullshit on me.
So, but you're working your way. And obviously we've been talking since then.

Speaker 5 He was like, but you're working your way up.

Speaker 1 Like, you're like, what do you think about that statement?

Speaker 5 Which one?

Speaker 1 Any of them, but some of the shit you've told me he's said to you.

Speaker 5 Like, it just made me feel like.

Speaker 1 Like, now you're, I guess, you know, it's like you're vent, you know, you're telling your story, but you're also like you clearly have told the story to a lot of people uh you're you know um

Speaker 1 yeah yeah and i yeah i hear yeah obviously that's what we friends do but like now you're telling me the story right and you're just kind of like now you're on a roll you know and now you're just like just venting and just putting it out there but like when you do you hear yourself say the things that he says to you like yeah and part of me we have a very joking relationship so part of me was like is he like just like oh like don't worry like you're you're getting back there.

Speaker 5 Like, but in my head, I feel like he genuinely thinks that like, I was being dramatic.

Speaker 1 Do you think he's joking? Like, I, do you think he's joking? Do you think these are jokes?

Speaker 5 Not like fully, but I think that if I express that I was upset about it, I feel like if I express that.

Speaker 1 Are you, let me ask you this. Are you joking?

Speaker 1 with him when you're asking for clarity about this heart or why he's texting you only on snapchat or just some of his like i wasn't joking some of his behaviors that you don't fully understand are you joking when you bring it to his attention No.

Speaker 1 Okay, so like, what makes you think he is joking in response?

Speaker 5 Because sometimes it's been a pattern when like I bring something up that bothers me, you know, I was joking.

Speaker 1 Like you know,

Speaker 1 you're serious. And do you think that's truthful? Or do you think that's him like a six-year-old trying to get out of trouble?

Speaker 5 I can't tell because like he does seem very, like as a 22-year-old, he does seem like immature in that way. Like he just seems very like he just wants to like let it pass.

Speaker 5 Like it's not that big of a a deal he says that a lot it's really not that big

Speaker 1 so i want to ask you the same question what is your intention with this guy today i asked you that question what your intention was when you first started talking with him but like what are you trying to figure out and to what end right like are are you trying to figure out whether this is a guy you should pursue in a relationship are you trying to figure out whether you're right yeah you know like what what are you trying to figure out here Yeah, so I guess like whether it's worth still pursuing or not, because since then we had that conversation, he was like, You're right.

Speaker 5 Like, you're right in the fact that, like, I need to make a different effort. Like, I like things could be different.
So, now, since then, we had that conversation. We have ditched Snapchat.

Speaker 5 It's gone.

Speaker 5 He texts me in the morning, you know, when he wakes up for workouts, good morning with a heart. And then we don't really talk much during the day.

Speaker 5 And then he calls me every night and, like, we talk, we just catch up and stuff. And it seems like things have moved in a better direction.
But I guess it still doesn't address just the way that he,

Speaker 5 you know, responded to the situation and me being upset and how to figure out when someone is too busy or like, and maybe that's a conversation to have with him. Like, one, is this worth pursuing?

Speaker 5 Because you're genuine about, hey, you're busy. You really do care about me, but, you know, you have to work around my schedule.
Or is it

Speaker 5 you are one of the many and I'm just kind of,

Speaker 1 you know. How long have you been fucking with this guy, hanging out with this guy for?

Speaker 5 Since like December, like mid-December before the holidays.

Speaker 1 It's been like four months, right? And in those four months of communicating with him, have you ever felt in a place of peace or on the same page with him where

Speaker 1 you have?

Speaker 5 And describe that time.

Speaker 5 And for how long? Yeah. So, yeah.
So it was literally up until probably

Speaker 5 Valentine's Day. So when he was like an hour away, you know, we would be pretty much talking all day long.
He would FaceTime me.

Speaker 5 um you know catch me up on his day he like everything like that we would make plans to hang out you know he was an hour so he'd be like, hey, come up here.

Speaker 5 Like we can, you know, you stay for the weekend.

Speaker 5 And that would happen pretty much every weekend or every other weekend. It was very consistent.

Speaker 1 Did you know where, did you know exactly where he stood in terms of how he felt about you or what his intentions were or whether he was talking or not talking to other women?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 1 Or your relationship status?

Speaker 5 I'm trying. I'm going to, I didn't ask about

Speaker 5 like that part because it didn't matter to me at that point because I was still talking to people a little bit.

Speaker 5 And the the reason why this bothered me so much is because he would make sly comments because we would kind of joke about like our hoes, but like not really having hoes.

Speaker 5 And he'd be like, Well, I would make you my girlfriend, or I would do this if you weren't like fucking around with, I'm not fucking around, like talking to these guys.

Speaker 5 Like, how would that make me seem as a guy if I'm going to like do all these things for you if you're still talking to other people? So then in my head, I said, Okay, I'll cut them off.

Speaker 5 Then it wasn't a big deal. I was like, Okay, I like you the most.
Like, I'll cut them off. And he was like,

Speaker 5 And that was it. Do you think I never said anything to him?

Speaker 1 Do you you think you're about equal to your peers your age or do you think you're more or less mature than other 26 year old women you hang out with i would say in the middle and okay so about like i definitely have way more immature friends but i do have friends that are okay a little bit more mature that's an honest

Speaker 1 honest and yeah and what about Like, do you think guys in general are more mature, less mature?

Speaker 5 Way less.

Speaker 1 Way less. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 So and that might be because of the age range. Like I haven't really talked to anyone that's older than me.

Speaker 5 A lot of the guys that I've dated and talked to are younger than me, but also I live in a city in the south that is very girl dominated. So the guys here are

Speaker 5 very like the guys have a lot of options compared to the girls, which is why, you know, I would spend a lot of my time going, you know, up to the city of the school that I went to, because it's a really big football city.

Speaker 1 Like, and then when i go home but i never really focused on um like i'm not like online dating or anything like that um but yeah i feel like a lot of the guys are immature okay i haven't really yeah in my experience okay well listen here's the thing when it comes to you're in your predicament you have this kind of weird dynamic as i see it right and this is just my opinion but like listen like kind of what I was getting at, certainly there's exceptions to every rule, but in general, yeah, like especially in your 20s, I think 20 is where you see the biggest difference, right?

Speaker 1 Like, I guess my point is, like, all teenagers are, I mean, what do you expect from teenagers?

Speaker 1 They're all like a level of immature, and even the mature ones, like, lack life experience in perspective, right? Right.

Speaker 1 As we get older, right? 40s, 50s, 60s, like age becomes far less relative. And it's really just more about lived experiences and things like that.
30s is a crapshoot.

Speaker 1 It really is dependent on people's lives leading up to that.

Speaker 1 But for the most part, 20s, there's a just, it's like a huge difference between people in their 20s, between maturity and lack of immaturity a lot has to do with you know experiences in your early 20s versus a lack of experience and things like that right

Speaker 1 but also then there's this like this truth that like regardless of how much of your lived experiences you have like generally speaking most 40 year olds have more perspective than most 20 year olds even the immature ones right who are 40 you know like you you right

Speaker 1 so there's that right And as a woman who generally speaking are developing more emotionally and more mature than men, you have a four-year age gap with the guy you're hanging out with, except that this guy is a D1 athlete.

Speaker 1 And I think that is something for you to consider because you have this weird dynamic. And like, this is why I think it might be so confusing for you, because when you first met, right?

Speaker 1 You both kind of came in with a bit of

Speaker 1 power in this relationship.

Speaker 1 You came into this as a woman who's four years older than him, who acted a little bit different than a lot of the women his age that were like he was quote unquote, as he said, fucking with, right?

Speaker 1 He came in as the D1 athlete of the school and the big swinging dick and like the most, you know, the most popular person in a group of popular people as the quarterback.

Speaker 1 And he has been catered to and treated a certain way and yada, yada, yada. And, you know, he's probably big, tall, handsome, and whatever.
And like he walks in a room.

Speaker 1 He gets a lot of attention. That gives him power.
That makes him feel confident, et cetera, et cetera. And so you have these two opposing forces of like betting heads.

Speaker 1 So when he says things like, oh, you know, you're different than most girls and things like that, it's like, I mean, it might feel, I'm sure, feels good in the moment.

Speaker 1 Your ego's a little stroked, but like, it's all bullshit, right? I mean, what does that really mean? I think, you know, we get caught up in it in the heat of the moment.

Speaker 1 But, you know, when you're telling the story and I'm listening, I'm just like, okay, yeah, like this is, it sounds like this, a very, this is exactly what I would expect from a 22-year-old college quarterback and dating an attractive 26-year-old woman.

Speaker 1 You know, I would expect these types of conversations to happen, right?

Speaker 1 And when I asked, you know, how long has this been going on for and how confident and secure how you felt and you're like oh no i've definitely felt confident secure and you know i don't know it's just debatable but i honestly think what it sounds like to me is that purple heart or whatever heart that snapchat gave you was like the the the the bedrock of how of your security in this relationship it was a tangible thing that like regardless of what he told you you know at least on snapchat he talked to you the most

Speaker 1 And then that changed. And that obviously changed the dynamic.
Now he's just spinning his wheels and trying to like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 And the truth is, your question was like, is he manipulating me or am I being dramatic? And I said, maybe a little bit of both. And I don't, maybe it's also at the same time, maybe neither.

Speaker 1 I don't know. He's probably lying to you.
And yeah, he's probably talking to other women. But also there's an element of like, I'm sure there's some sincerity from him when he, you probably are.

Speaker 1 his support system. You probably are there for him in ways that other women or other people in his life haven't or can't be.
And I'm sure you do add value to him in his life.

Speaker 1 And that value that you add makes it feel real, makes it feel meaningful for you.

Speaker 5 It makes it feel, you know, like it's like there's something there that you're not just some like another chick that he's like you know with or you know sending news to yeah the things he's asking for it's it's different than like for example this again this is bad right now i'm watching his dog because he he's like my dog like and i know him because i've hung out with his dog so many times that does not like other people as like really like does not whatever so he went to a different state to do training for spring break and he was and i was like i'll watch him like no big deal so right now i have him and like when he needs help like he's like i need someone to like clean my house like will you help me will you like get on a face time with me like try to get someone to help me or like he was with his family the other day and he was like oh everyone say hi to my girl obviously didn't name me but was like every like and just like stuff like that or hey why obviously like you're older i just feel like just that's just the way he talks like he always refers to me like as his girl but not like like to me and to other people like if he's on face time with a friend when i'm at like his like house but not his girlfriend with my girl No, but that that was okay to me because that we like, I don't think of him as my boyfriend either.

Speaker 1 Taking care of his dog. What do you think of him as your son?

Speaker 5 No, I think of him as like someone like I care about that I could like see like something some like it going somewhere, but I don't think we're at that point like at all.

Speaker 1 And that's what I was thinking. Why are you taking care of his dog?

Speaker 5 Because I care about him and I care about the dog. And I knew that it would like to be a little bit more.

Speaker 1 Because you care about him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, listen, I get what you're saying, but you have this, you know, I would say to you, a very unrealistic and very immature approach to this relationship, you know, and I, and you're not the only one, and I'm not trying to be hard on you, but like, you know, and that's also, I think, is the problem with, not to sound like the old guy, your generation and dating culture today, where it's like, you guys like act like you can have this, like, you know, you can have your cake and eat it too.

Speaker 1 Like you act mature by saying things like, well, I'm not ready for that right now. But like, here you are taking care of his dog when you're not even his girlfriend.

Speaker 1 And like any, any at any point if this guy wanted to whip his dick out and show it to someone else he can say you're not my girlfriend and he wouldn't be lying he wouldn't you know and he's you know and it's just like that's not you it's like you're playing house you're just doing your version of playing house like and it's become this kind of weird dynamic where sometimes you act like his girlfriend sometimes you act like his mom you know like you're his emotional support system but at any point he can set a boundary with you being like whoa yay listen like this is getting too far too deep and it's just like that's not a relationship and it's certainly not one that like gives you peace of mind and security and comfort and like four months in i'll say this much

Speaker 1 four months in with any guy i don't care the stakes his job his profession your age difference you shouldn't be calling into a show like mine with as many questions you have about something that's worth your time yeah i guess i didn't realize and if it's this confusing this early

Speaker 1 yeah yeah you have a lot and that's talking yeah

Speaker 5 and i think that's also because of my ego is I'm not the type, I'll never ask you to hang out first. I get it.
Yeah, no.

Speaker 5 So I think I have so many questions because it's also my fault because I'm not, I'm letting him roll how he wants and playing cool girl and not like freaking out about it, which makes it easy on him.

Speaker 5 But it's also like, yeah, I do have questions like, are we going to be something? Are we not?

Speaker 1 Well, like you said, you have to be now. You're playing cool girl.
So like, it's an act, right? Like, that's okay. We all pretend sometimes.

Speaker 1 But clearly, like, you know, and like, yeah, you seem to be emotionally regulated, but like you, you playing cool girl is you, again, justifying your and his choices and just talking yourself through his behavior and the things that don't make sense to you.

Speaker 1 And you talk to yourself mostly and sometimes your friends to work through his confusing behavior so you can get to a place where like it kind of makes sense. So that you can keep this shit going.

Speaker 5 Yeah, my friends were pissed.

Speaker 1 Because you really, honestly, you're in the back of your mind, you're like, well, he's 22 and you keep making excuses for him and he's in this very trans like the truth is he is 22.

Speaker 1 He's an extraordinarily transitional part of his life you know as a d1 quarterback i don't know what school he plays for how big or how good he is but like despite him being at the level that he is it's still like an incredible long shot for him to get drafted and even if he gets drafted it's even a little bigger of a long shot but i doubt i have no doubt he probably has these dreams and aspirations and he's like aiming big for his life as he should and good for him but like for the next i don't know eight years of his life i can promise you this much you will not be a top priority you just won't right and like you have you know it's not like you're his high school sweetheart where you out you you know like a lot of young athletes marry early and like you know sometimes it works out sometimes it's not you never want to be like russell wilson's girl i don't know if you've ever seen that video um like when he got drafted she's like i won the lottery and then like before his big deal he divorced her uh and married zero um

Speaker 1 you know and like but listen like you don't even have that going for you you know you're you're all you are is different and older and like you know a lot of you know and i'm sure like him dating an older girl for a d1 quarterback kind of makes sense to him because in a lot of ways he probably probably is more mature than some of the girls he's hanging out with because despite him being catered to, despite him being in a lot of ways very immature for his age, I've said this, there was like this hockey girl, this girl who like hooked up with this hockey guy a long time ago, and I said a very similar thing to you.

Speaker 1 It's like, he's both incredibly mature and immature for his age. You know, his immaturity comes from the fact that he's been catered to and, you know, put up on a pedestal his whole life.

Speaker 1 But his maturity comes from the fact that he's been put in leadership positions and he's given and he's lived certain aspects of his life that have forced him to be mature as a leader of his team.

Speaker 1 And that and that comes out in the form of probably very attractive qualities and his ability to talk to you and keep up with you in ways that other 22-year-old men couldn't.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and that's what I was telling my friends.

Speaker 5 I felt like the people that I was talking to before, like one thing he appreciates about me, he's like, I like talking to you because you're very established in your career.

Speaker 5 You wouldn't, if we got married, it wouldn't be like all these other girls who just want to be like wags. Like you make good money, you have your shit together, which is like someone I want to marry.

Speaker 5 And for him, I felt like because he's so, like you said, established in his career, him acting this way and having all these opportunities, it's really attracted to me because a lot of the 22 to 24 year old guys I'm talking to are just getting in their careers.

Speaker 5 They don't know how to manage their money. They're all these things that are like, and maybe that's the issue of like an age range that I'm going for.
But to him, it's like.

Speaker 1 Why are you going for people who are younger than you? I mean, I get like, listen, my, obviously my wife's a lot younger than me, but like, are you going for younger men? Or like, is that, is that?

Speaker 5 I just feel like that's how I, I have a lot of like, how I meet these people are like, a lot of the guys that I've talked to, like, my guy friends are younger.

Speaker 5 So they'll introduce me to their friends. Like, I've never been on a dating app or any of that.
So it's just, I don't know a lot of older people.

Speaker 5 Like, no one I, yeah, I don't hang out with anyone older than me. So

Speaker 5 it just seems like whenever I go home, yeah, that's the other thing. It's if I were, I don't have a problem with it.
I'd be open to it. It's just everyone I know is either is

Speaker 5 usually younger than me.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's fair.

Speaker 1 Your circle of influence is younger. That makes sense.

Speaker 1 But listen, my point is that you can change it. You can use dating apps.
Dating apps is a tool, not a solution.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying like get on five dating apps and stop meeting people in life, you know, and I'm not saying stop dating younger guys. I'm just saying like, it's not necessarily a recipe for success.

Speaker 1 And like this particular guy, you know, I don't know, like anything's possible, but being for, you know, like, I don't know, if this guy makes it to the top of the mountain, if his wildest dreams come true.

Speaker 5 And he thinks they will.

Speaker 1 great yeah but like very very confident in it yeah and good for him but like he you know

Speaker 1 i don't care if you're the d1 quarterback about to go pro um or or or or not or you know when i don't know what i was doing when i was 22 but all i'm saying he's saying most 22 year olds are very wrong about their future right you know um yeah he and he he he could still make it to the pros and still be very wrong about his future and other aspects of his life.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, all I'm saying is like, you, and I don't know what you thought about your future at 22, but I'm guessing four years later, you can already point out a lot of things you were wrong about, right?

Speaker 1 That's called life. You have to live it and whatever.
And we don't get to decide when we're 22 what our rest of our lives look like and have it all be exactly what we planned and wanted for ourselves.

Speaker 5 So yeah. And so like, yeah, from here, it's like,

Speaker 5 like, is it like, oh, like, end it? Is it like, it's like, cause it's so weird because it's like, is there something that like he is not going to. It just feels like so be able to do?

Speaker 1 End it.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're looking for, you know, the type of closure that, where it's like you, you, you both like mutually decide, you know, and you're on the best possible terms, you're like, that's, that's, that's, that's delusion.

Speaker 1 It's just not going to happen. Like, you very, like, it's, what's clear to me through your story is like, it's very clear to him that you, he knows why you're in his life.

Speaker 1 You know, he knows the value you add.

Speaker 1 Right. And he doesn't want to get rid of that.
Right.

Speaker 1 And he, he has his top priority. That is to go pro.

Speaker 1 Everything else, honestly, is

Speaker 1 much further down the priority list for him. That being said, you have made yourself very available and very useful to him.
I'm not saying he's doing it to use you.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm just saying like he just has other shit that is a bigger priority.

Speaker 1 And you've made yourself very available and you've been very accommodating and you've offered up some of your services, both as a friend, as a lover, as a mother figure, as a housewife who's taking care of his dog.

Speaker 1 And these are all like make it's makes his life easier so why wouldn't he why would he say no to that and then like you know you haven't forced him to be in a relationship so he will always have this get out of jail free card and then he'll just argue semantics with you about shit like snapchat conversations and other girls and blah blah blah blah blah but it's worth it to him because again what's clear to him is the value you bring i'm not sure what value he brings into your life other than a great story and a lot of drama and something to talk about with your friends and a potential lottery ticket that like while you're not looking to be a wag it could pay off in the long run or maybe like the man you fall in love with just happens to get drafted by the nfl yeah for sure it's it was more like a fun story in the beginning obviously because he was the quarterback at the school that i went to like it was all like you know i i don't talk to athletes and so now it's like i think he's really fun i think he's like really good to talk to i'm sure i'm sure he's swell yeah i'm sure he's swell but like he just has he just has a lot to work through.

Speaker 1 He just has a lot to work through. He's got a lot of other shit going.

Speaker 5 That's the hard part. It's it's like a good guy.
Like he didn't do anything wrong. So it feels almost weird cutting things off with someone who, because he's right.
Like he's not doing anything wrong.

Speaker 5 He's not being an asshole. It's just like it's clearly to me that it's not going to go anywhere.
And then he'll argue, well, I'm busy on this. I still don't.

Speaker 1 And that's fine. You're like, listen, you are busy.
I totally get it, but I'm busy too. And I'm 26 years old.
And you're, you know, like, and that's fine.

Speaker 1 But what I'm looking for is to invest my quality time and invest my dating i have a limit i don't have time i don't have a lot of time to date go on dates you know hang out with other men i just i'm busy too you know i'm not trying to say i'm busier than you like you have your life to worry about i have mine but like i when i do date in the limited time that i have i want it to be with someone who like has time for me and you listen you don't like you you shouldn't have you should chase this dream you should go and try to be an nfl quarterback like you should try to do that but like right now, like you don't have time for the thing I'm looking for.

Speaker 1 And it's not, listen, that's, and that's life's not fair. Maybe you'll teach him a lesson here.
He is going to fight for that. He is going to fight for you.
And that's not necessarily for you.

Speaker 1 You can tell yourself it's for you and it's love. What it is, is for like you bring a lot of tangible value to his life.

Speaker 1 You make his life easier. And he is not going to let that go easily.

Speaker 5 I should have stuck with that the first time that I did it. Like I said, like when I said, hey, no big deal.
I think you're busy.

Speaker 5 and then he was like wait this shocks me like i didn't think you were going to do this like and i should have this like you can still do it now it's been four months

Speaker 1 it's like it's like you're not and that was i did that like a month ago or maybe three weeks it was recent and then he's gonna think that i'm yeah he's gonna be like you're doing this again who cares what he thinks who cares listen you don't get to end it and have him be like you know what a great girl she is honestly honestly what what a nice sweet girl i wish her nothing but the best you're considering rejecting a d1 quarterback yeah they don't usually take that shit well.

Speaker 1 He's not used to being turned down, not getting the job, not getting, you know, like, you know, you, you know, like he just transferred in the transfer portal or whatever, and now he's with a new team.

Speaker 1 And it's been like, he's already struggling with that, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 As a quarterback of a team,

Speaker 1 he's got a lot of probably learning to do, you know, and shit like that, you know, and all these things. And there's a lot of quarterbacks that make to the NFL and never, you know, like

Speaker 1 doesn't go anywhere. Like, you know, he can still be the truly best in the world.

Speaker 1 He can be one of the, he can be one of the top 100 quarterbacks in the world and still be a fucking nobody when it comes to like the NFL. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And still ultimately have people think of him as a failure. That's fuck.
That's tough, man. It's tough in his position.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people don't have the mental fortitude or the emotional and mental resilience.

Speaker 1 to get where they need to go because like the problem with that he's in is like, you know, for his whole life, he's been so much better than everyone else and that he has a lot of fucking growing up to do in that department and like you know i don't know like you can yeah i don't know if that's a job for you um it's probably a job for a lot of people and he's gonna have to go through years of interactions and things like that and like you're just a maid yeah you know you're an emotional support system you're something to do you're you know like he is not you know when he's like well i don't know maybe in the future we get married i want to marry someone like you like you're seeing that as like romantic.

Speaker 1 Like he's just saying, yeah, I don't know. What I do know about this guy, he's not looking to get married anytime soon.

Speaker 1 And if he does, it's a reactive decision to like, you know, a panic of losing you. Again, like, I'm sure he will fight hard for you, but make no mistake, it's not necessarily for you.

Speaker 1 He's doing, he's fighting for himself. He's like, he doesn't want to lose his assistant.

Speaker 5 No, that's so valid. And I think that that was in my head.
I was like.

Speaker 5 I need to understand that someone can be busy and all the things that he's saying can be true, but that doesn't mean that like that gives it a right for me to feel like, you know, and these gifts feel anxious.

Speaker 5 I feel all these things.

Speaker 5 Just because he is busy and all those things are true, that doesn't mean I have, it's like, oh, it's okay that I'm anxious. It's okay that I'm this because he's busy.

Speaker 5 And that's kind of what I was telling myself. Like he is busy.
I don't understand his schedule. So like it makes sense that I feel this way, but it doesn't mean I want to still feel that way.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's more honest about your state of mind and your feelings.
It's like, this doesn't got, this guy doesn't bring you peace. He makes you anxious.
He makes you unsettled, insecure, unsure.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It definitely keeps you busy and preoccupied.
You've definitely, you have not been bored in the past four months. And like, no one loves being bored.

Speaker 1 You know, like, listen, I can't make you, you know, you're going to have to decide for yourself what you want to do, but like, you are going to have to be honest with yourself about like, you know, to me, this is a waste of your time.

Speaker 1 It is the most you're going to get out of this is a good story. So you'll just have to ask yourself, how much is this good story worth to me?

Speaker 5 Yeah. And even you saying that, like with the dog, like he's back at his, at his college now.

Speaker 5 And he's like, oh, like, will you keep him for the week so i can get readjusted to my schedule and i'm like sitting here like readjusted like why does this guy have a dog you know like you know he and he shouldn't he's a puppy and he shouldn't and he literally cannot manage him at all and he's he's stressed out he doesn't like his team he does he like thinks he made all these bad decisions so he's like he's stressing out about that and then he's like and then he's like well will you have him for the like this week and this is like two weeks and i'm like i'm happy to help you but also like he's not asking me you know is this good with your schedule when can i get him like he's he's operating knowing that i can handle it because i handle everything and i have my together but it's just annoying he likes you because he finds the other women that are his more his age more obnoxious yeah for sure because you're mature enough to play the game a little bit and you're mature enough to be like you know to to kind of mask your anxiety and your insecurity and they're a little bit more reactive maybe and they're you know and they complain to him a little faster and a little sooner than you do

Speaker 5 and he That's exactly what he said about the other girls. He'd be like, they asked what, what I want right away, and they're so worried about what we're going to be.

Speaker 5 And like, you just don't give a fuck. And even though inside, I give a little bit of a fuck.
You give a lot of fucks.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You give as many fucks as they do.

Speaker 5 But I know the reality of the situation.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but now, and now you're lying to yourself. But like, you, yes, at first, you were honest for a brief moment about the reality of your situation.

Speaker 1 And then henceforth, you were lying to yourself about what he said and what he meant and how sincere he was or yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 1 Or you took what he said and you manipulated it and changed it into something that you could accept rather than taking it at a face value.

Speaker 1 And you have used your quote unquote maturity as a way to honestly manipulate yourself. Like you're clearly an intelligent person.

Speaker 1 And, you know, like, listen, like, obviously this is coming from tough love. And I'm not trying to be hard on you here, but like your question was, is he manipulating me? Is he gaslighting me?

Speaker 1 And it's just like, we lie to ourselves way more than we lie to anyone else. I say that all the time.
No one talks to you more than you talk to yourself. And, you know, your ego is internal.

Speaker 1 And like, listen, you're lying to yourself constantly every day. We all are.
But like, it's just easier for you to play the victim here.

Speaker 1 You know, it's just easier for you to act like he's manipulating you. But again, you saw him for who he was in the beginning of this story.

Speaker 1 And you have tried to do like mental gymnastics to keep it going. And it just, it feels wrong, which is why you reached out to us.

Speaker 1 and it's why you're calling because your gut is telling you, this is not what I'm telling myself it is. And why am I still here?

Speaker 1 And it's only been four months with this guy and it ain't going to get better. His life has never been more chaotic.
So he is definitely, he's going to feel less in a position to give you more.

Speaker 1 He's going to feel more justified to ask more from you and expect less from him.

Speaker 5 Yeah, exactly. Because that's what he said.
That's literally like

Speaker 5 basically without saying it. He's like,

Speaker 5 yeah.

Speaker 5 And it's just, I, yeah, from here, it's just, you think, but you think having a conversation, like drop off the dog and have the conversation or draw or figure out a way to get him back because we haven't even figured, because he's four hours away.

Speaker 5 When I picked him up, I drove four hours, picked him up, hung out with him for two hours and drove back.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen,

Speaker 1 my answer is path of least resistance, right? Obviously, you don't need to like, be dramatic. You don't need to blow this guy up today.
You know, like you, he's not your boyfriend.

Speaker 1 He's not doing doing anything wrong. You're in this situation because you made choices and you accepted some of his asks, right? So there is no reason to be reactive or whatever.

Speaker 1 So figure it out, you know, like take care of the dog. He's obviously, you know, he's going to be selfish.
He's going to ask a lot from you. And like whatever you feel is reasonable, just placate.

Speaker 1 Once he has the dog, I don't even think this requires some big sit down. You know, you're not, again, you're not his girlfriend.
You're not his mom. You're not his therapist.

Speaker 1 You don't owe him anything. He's going to act like you do, but you can just simply just, it can be a casual phone conversation.

Speaker 1 You know, it can be like, listen, I know, it's like, I, I have a lot going on too, and I just, I can't be taking care of your dog. And like, you're just not in an interest.

Speaker 1 You're not in a position to be a boyfriend right now. Even if you wanted to be my boyfriend, I know that you, you have too much other going on.

Speaker 1 And honestly, you would be a fool for you to like bring a girlfriend into your life. But like, I, I am 26 years old i am looking for someone in my life and like

Speaker 1 you're just not it right now you know and it makes me sad i think you're a great guy

Speaker 5 you know but like this is yeah is there a good way to respond because i know how he's gonna respond he's just like you're doing this again i told you that i would try harder i told you things would be different i told you is there like a good like because i don't want to seem like i'm jumping on things as soon as things aren't going my way because that's what he says it says whatever again but fine yeah yeah yeah yeah but like so fine and i don't know if he's going to hear it you know this is not about, you know, you're asking, is there a good way?

Speaker 1 What you're really asking, is there a perfect way to say something so things resonate with him? I don't know this guy.

Speaker 1 And what I do know about this guy, chances are he's very resistant to not getting his way. Yes.
Right.

Speaker 1 So like, chances are you're not going to say the perfect thing where it's going to, like, the light bulb's going to go off. And he's going to be this mature guy.

Speaker 1 Again, he's going to fight for the things that you give him. You give him a lot, right? But like, you're not asking for anything.

Speaker 1 Before it was, I want, you were asking for something and that was the truth. You wanted the truth from him.
You wanted to find out who was Snapchatting. You wanted to get some clarity.

Speaker 1 You're not asking for anything anymore. You're letting him know.
And it's not about Snapchat. You have come to a different decision.
And that is, you have too much going on right now.

Speaker 1 I don't even, like, I'm, you should, honestly, you should be talking to other girls. Like it was a, I shouldn't have asked for that.
Obviously, I think you're a great guy.

Speaker 1 You have a lot going for you.

Speaker 1 I love being around you, but like, i have to be mature and recognize that like what i want for myself you are not you're you're you're too busy for and like you should be you are making good choices like you you should like i'm not i don't want to ask you to choose between your job and me sometimes people do like there are there are relationships out there where it's just like listen man i don't know i'm not getting what i need and you're a workaholic and like you're never at home and i feel fucking alone in this relationship you're not in a relationship you know yeah so like you're playing house and you're just like like, I just, I just can't, I don't want to do this anymore.

Speaker 1 And like, I'm, I'm just looking for something else. I don't want anything.
There's nothing you can say or do to change my mind because you're not doing anything wrong.

Speaker 1 I just realize I need something different. And I don't want you to fight for me.
And I don't need you to fight for me. You should fight for your, like, your job, your, your career.
You're 22.

Speaker 1 Chase your fucking dreams, man. Like, I'm rooting for you.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 It's what I said the first time, but I did not stand my ground on it. And I just.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And like, you know, in his competitive spirit, he won't even know the difference between like, is, is this a challenge? Does he love you?

Speaker 1 You don't, he, again, that's where his immaturity will come out.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yeah.
That's.

Speaker 1 And you have to be mature enough to recognize that his reaction will be about him, not about you. And you're, and you have to make sure you let your ego know that.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 And you hit it right on the head when you said like, I hate being like the bad guy in people's eyes because like I have done so much and it's going to really annoy me if he's going to think she was immature.

Speaker 1 He'll call you names. He'll say a bunch of things.
Maybe he'll spread rumors. I don't know.
I do not know his level of immaturity, but you're going to have to accept that, anticipate that, and

Speaker 1 let your ego be okay with that. Yeah.

Speaker 5 You're absolutely right. I know.
Yep. That's good advice.
It's what I needed.

Speaker 5 What I knew, but needed to hear from someone other than my friends because it's just a story, like you said, is being played.

Speaker 1 Your friends probably fucking love this shit. They're great, you know? And like, you know, your friends right now are the friends who want you to buy the boat, right?

Speaker 1 Like, they can't, they can't even be honest. You go to your friend and be like, hey, should I buy this boat? And your friend's like,

Speaker 1 yeah, actually, it sounds like a lot of fun. We would have so much fun.
And they're not thinking, can you afford it? Yeah. Like, is this a good financial decision?

Speaker 1 Is this going to create emotional distress for you? They're just thinking about how much fun the boat is. Yeah.

Speaker 5 And they love the story.

Speaker 1 No, they want you to introduce you to some of, like, you know, they're like, I don't know, is the linebacker single?

Speaker 5 Exactly. Like, they wanted me to bring, you know, them to games and like make a weekend, make weekends of it.
It's like, oh, it's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 5 You know, just like ride the wave type of thing.

Speaker 5 And for a while, it was fine, but I feel like, like you said, it's been four months.

Speaker 1 And listen, if you could, and I'm not, this is not a dare. And like I said, I very much,

Speaker 1 I say this with caution, but if you were capable, which I don't think you are, and I don't think you're going to be, and that's not something that you should try out, but if you were capable of truly not giving a fuck and saying things, saying no to be like, no, I'm not going to watch your fucking dog, you shouldn't have gotten a dog.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like,

Speaker 1 you know, if you were capable of,

Speaker 1 you know, being being in more position of power with this guy, then I would say have some fun, but you're not, you're not.

Speaker 5 No, no, at this point, I'm not.

Speaker 1 And that's, that's more than understandable. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Well, thank you. I, yeah, once, like you said, gonna chill this week with the dog, then find a way to get, get him back, and then kind of just

Speaker 1 go from there. When you, if, if you actually move forward with ending it, don't make a big thing of it.
It's not a production. Don't be dramatic.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Don't be like, we have to talk.
He's not your boyfriend. Just kind of, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 All right. Well, thank you guys so much.

Speaker 1 I really appreciate it. Thanks for calling.
Please give us an update on how, what, when you, when and if you do that and how that went.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Sounds good. All right.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.
Bye-bye.