E982 - RHOM w/ Lisa Hochstein, Perfect Match w/ Freddie, Bach in Paradise w/ Brian, New Taylor Swift Album

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Speaker 4 Grief is messy enough, but when it takes the form of an unhinged and unwanted house guest, Crow, taunting him from the shadows, things spiral out of control.

Speaker 4 Critics are calling it memorable and haunting. See The Thing with Feathers starting November 28th, only in theaters.

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Speaker 3 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another special. Is it a special episode? Well, it's Wednesday, and we're out there giving you content that you know and love.
Either way, we're here.

Speaker 3 We're with you. We have a great episode lined up for you today.
I'm your host, Nick. My beautiful wife is not here today.
She's down bad. So

Speaker 3 she'll hopefully be with us soon, but we love her. Yeah, we love you, Natalie.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Weird transition, but anyways, you know who is on a podcast, Taylor Swift today. I mean, when you got done listening to Taylor Swift, hopefully you tuned in.
You probably have already listened to it.

Speaker 3 Will I listen to it? I don't, I've never listened to an episode of New Heights. No hate against, I'm just, you know, too busy, I guess.
Making your own podcast. Make my own show.

Speaker 3 You know, funny guys, you know, love the football stuff. I don't know if I'll listen.
I think I might.

Speaker 3 I've had a conversation with Taylor Swift before, and I feel like a lot of fans for this is like, she's going to talk. That's what, yeah.

Speaker 3 I I don't think I've ever heard her talk for that long, like, and like, have a conversation with someone.

Speaker 5 It is so funny for the Swifties to be like, it's a football.

Speaker 5 I think, I think half the Swifties are split and they don't know her man's show. No, they know her man's show, but I think half of them are like the,

Speaker 5 oh, we have to listen to a man's podcast. And then the other half of them are like, oh my God, she's on Travis's podcast.

Speaker 3 Killer Trav.

Speaker 5 Well, I feel like there's the people that love Killer Trav, and then there are the girlies that don't love Killer Trav.

Speaker 6 You You know, Killa Trav.

Speaker 3 Killa Trav.

Speaker 6 Is this the first time I'm hearing this?

Speaker 5 You've never heard Killa Trav?

Speaker 3 No. Well, we'll dissect that a little bit more, but just to remind you, we have a great episode.
It's jam-packed, and we'll get to the interviews briefly because we have three of them.

Speaker 3 We got Brian from Bachelor in Paradise. We're just dying to know his favorite color.
So that is why we have him on.

Speaker 3 We'd love to get some answers on what we see is just a little bit of toxicity from Brian. Maybe it's the edit.
I don't know. Maybe he has anger issues.
Maybe he's a super secret.

Speaker 3 We may not find out his favorite color. Like he's still.

Speaker 6 You might ask and he might just leave.

Speaker 3 He might refuse to share.

Speaker 3 We're not doing this right now. We're not doing this.

Speaker 6 We're not doing this right now.

Speaker 7 I'm done.

Speaker 6 This interview's over.

Speaker 3 Either way, it's we'll have that. Then we have the opposite.
We have Freddy from Perfect Match, the angel that is

Speaker 3 Freddy.

Speaker 3 Freddy was either written by Taylor Swift or a woman. He's a little angel of her.
Well, Taylor is a woman.

Speaker 3 Oops. By women for a while.
I was to say God, but then also of God. If you believe that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 Which, I mean, for, I do, it can give anyone worried.

Speaker 3 This is great. This is great content.
I love this. I love this.
Just keep talking.

Speaker 3 Who have I not offended?

Speaker 5 Do you have anything to say about God?

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 6 You got God, Taylor Swift.

Speaker 3 Beyonce? What about Melissa Gorga?

Speaker 5 Oh, Melissa Gorga.

Speaker 3 Equal to that level.

Speaker 5 God, Taylor Swift, Melissa Gorga. I say it all the time.

Speaker 3 In that promo that had 100 million whatever fucking views.

Speaker 6 Probably more by now.

Speaker 3 That's crazy. I mean,

Speaker 3 I was still like, I was still making up. Clearly doing a bit, but the bit is kind of like, he hates his girlfriend.

Speaker 3 It was kind of funny how she was looking directly at him and then he was just like, and she's here.

Speaker 3 Like it's giving like, I'm doing your podcast. He's like, okay.

Speaker 3 Like, clearly, that's not obvious. I'm sure they're thrilled.

Speaker 3 I mean, like, she obviously phoned in a favor because she wanted to promote this album because she didn't know that anybody was going to buy it if she didn't go on this podcast to promote it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, obviously.

Speaker 5 Taylor Tough really needs to get out there.

Speaker 3 She really is. She's really doing him a favor.
Listen,

Speaker 3 it is her boyfriend. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 But podcasting is the new way to promote whatever it is you need to promote. That's where people want to get to know you.
They want to see the human that you are.

Speaker 3 And of course she's going to do her boyfriend.

Speaker 5 Yeah, because it's not like she doesn't have to feel uncomfortable in a setting. It's two people she knows very well.
She has control of the edit.

Speaker 3 4.8. On your boyfriend's podcast.
She definitely has control of the edit.

Speaker 5 It's not like he's going to ask her hardball questions.

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 I don't not even suspect it's going to be like an interview. No.
I expect it to be just like a little hangout sesh.

Speaker 3 Anyway, she has a new album. She's collaborating with some new producers.
I've never heard of them. I'm not, I mean, I know they're a big deal.
I'm just not. I don't.
I've offended them now.

Speaker 5 It's producer she's collaborated in the past it's Max Martin and someone else and she put out a playlist of only like five the songs that he well it's the songs that they've made for her already which I will say are the bangers like a Max Martin Taylor Swift collab does go hard is is style one of them style is one of them really is that your favorite James Day

Speaker 3 I have danced by myself to style

Speaker 3 at two in the morning in my apartment in Chicago. Oh,

Speaker 3 hell yeah. I have.

Speaker 5 What neighborhood did you live in?

Speaker 6 Why were you making dinner at two in the morning?

Speaker 3 Maybe I wasn't making, I was making food. Minutes.
My bar days.

Speaker 3 He was dancing in the refrigerator light. White refrigerator light? That's lyrics.

Speaker 6 A white refrigerator?

Speaker 3 A white refrigerator. So style, style's.
Style is one of those. Okay.
I'm promising.

Speaker 5 I'm of hope. My issue with the past couple of Taylor Swift albums is I was like, I would love to hear what's happening behind her vocals.
You know what I mean? I would love to hear a beat.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Like fun pop.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Drums?

Speaker 3 Reputation, maybe?

Speaker 3 callback to that. Was that Max Martin's?

Speaker 5 I think some of it. There we go.
I was just like, love the song, would love to hear more of it, you know, has been my thing, anyway.

Speaker 3 Anyways, it's um, well, I mean, obviously, everyone who's everyone's listened to it by the time they got to this episode, probably. Yeah, if you listen to us first, thanks, you're G.

Speaker 5 Hey, if you listen to us first, you have taste.

Speaker 3 Thanks.

Speaker 3 Also, this episode, we have a big sit-down with Lisa Hoxtein. Not to be confused with Lisa Hoxteen, same person, but we called her Lisa Hoxteen, but she referred to herself as Lisa Hochstein.

Speaker 3 So we're going forward going to respect Hoxtein. Yes, her wishes.
She is with us. Obviously, she has been going through a lot both personally and publicly with her divorce from Lenny.

Speaker 3 And she speaks with us, talking in great detail about just that whole kind of emotional anguish that she's been enduring while making great TV with the other housewives of Miami.

Speaker 3 We obviously talk a little bit about the

Speaker 3 as well, but it is a great interview with Lisa for all the Bravo fans out there. We have all the tea that you're going to possibly want.

Speaker 3 So really important that you wrap up that Taylor episode and make sure it's must-see or must-listen programming with Lisa Hochstein. That is all up.
in this amazing episode.

Speaker 3 Also, tomorrow, we're back for another reality recap. We have Sandy from Perfect Match with us.
Also, our friend of show, Susie Evans, is going to

Speaker 3 come back in and hang out with us. We had such a fun time with her the first time.
She decided to come back and hang out with us.

Speaker 3 Funny story about Sandy, the first time that we had Sandy in the studio was when we had her ex Nick, not to be confused with me, for that kind of double date interview that was really awkward.

Speaker 3 And we talked some shit about Sandy prior to that. I thought I was tough on her, but apparently she didn't care.
Mary had just started working here.

Speaker 3 You want to tell the story? It's like more fun when it comes from you.

Speaker 5 Yeah, isn't it? So basically, you guys, we were recapping, and I tend to be hyperbolic for comedic purposes, you know? Undefended, just say that. And anyway, I called her soulless.

Speaker 5 I called her soulless.

Speaker 3 I don't feel good about it. At one point, we were talking about Sandy, who at times

Speaker 3 it looked like she was fucking JR. What, like, what?

Speaker 3 And I really,

Speaker 5 also, JR just brought out a bad side of me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Anyone who fucks with JR, you just, anyways.

Speaker 3 Mary called her souless. I called her soul.

Speaker 5 She came in and then, you know, Nick and Natalie, they love to be like very kind to people. And they were like, don't look at the comments.
Like, people say really mean things on the internet.

Speaker 5 And Sandy goes, well, the worst thing somebody actually said about me was here. And then I was still editing at the time.
And she turns to me at my little desk and she goes, you called me soulless.

Speaker 3 No, she said, the worst thing I've been called is soulless by you. Oh, yeah.
And then

Speaker 5 she did say verbatim, you called me soulless.

Speaker 3 And then I went, the by you was a slow turn and point. Yeah.
It landed at by you. And then you turned red.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 I was pretty savage of her.

Speaker 5 No, it was really cool of her. And I think about it to this day.

Speaker 3 And Sandy, I'm deeply, deeply sorry. It was almost the perfect setup.
Anyway, she joins us tomorrow to talk all things perfect match her time in the house with Louie.

Speaker 3 that should be a good sandy usually delivers you only kiss two girls during truth or dare and then one outside of the game how long was this little boys mixer because I just a day I think it seemed like an hour it wasn't even a day

Speaker 3 two hours

Speaker 3 I couldn't help myself her dick was so hard

Speaker 3 she said lick her thigh licked her thigh

Speaker 3 We'll get into all of that tomorrow. Well, before we get to our interviews, Lala wants to go on Southern Charm.

Speaker 3 Lala was doing an Amazon live and they asked her which reality show she'd most like to join her answer was Southern Charm. She thinks that

Speaker 3 that's not real news. It's not real news.

Speaker 3 You get asked questions on Amazon Live and she got asked a question she answered.

Speaker 5 It made a headline.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Mm-hmm.
But I guess maybe even the bigger question there would be like, should reality TV stars when their shows get canceled be able to pitch themselves for other series?

Speaker 3 Well, it's supply and demand. That's what I'm thinking.
There's demand for you.

Speaker 3 I don't know. Can't we agree, though, that some of the best episodes of like television are crossover episodes?

Speaker 5 Yes, going back to the Disney channel Night of Periods.

Speaker 3 When Brad Pitt went on friends. Love.
Schwartz. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 3 Thanksgiving episodes slapped. Oh, it did slap.

Speaker 5 Oh, my God. When O'Neill Ryder went on friends.

Speaker 3 Yes. When you see people that you're like, oh, what are you doing here? Even when I see a Tom Schwartz on

Speaker 3 Summerhouse. Yeah.
Valley, not so much, but Summerhouse, it's like, hey, you don't belong here. I like it.

Speaker 5 Or it's like speaking of Lala, when Lala briefly, when Lala and Katie show up in Salt Lake City in that one episode, you go,

Speaker 3 you know? Which of the men do you think would date Lala and Lala would date?

Speaker 3 Chep.

Speaker 3 I would love to see her date Chep, but I don't think they, I don't think either of them would be into each other. Craig.
She's going for the top.

Speaker 3 Who's got the most money?

Speaker 3 I mean, no offense. No, Whitney.
No, Whitney. Whitney.

Speaker 5 It would probably be Whitney.

Speaker 3 Ew. No.
That tracks. Right? Have we seen her date anyone but Randall since Randall? Well, I don't.
She was famously rumored to have dated

Speaker 3 the man that Brittany cheated on Jax with or the one that Jax got upset that she was hooking up with while they were separated. Oh, the bachelor person.
Yeah. Julian.
Julian. Remember

Speaker 3 Jax found text messages between Brittany and Julian on her. That's the last person? Is someone in their

Speaker 3 circle? Yeah. That's the last person rumored to be dating.
Yeah. Why does she get out there?

Speaker 6 But Lala doesn't live in Charleston.

Speaker 5 That's my thing. She's not from the South even.

Speaker 3 Well, she's not going to do the show. She got to ask the Amazon live question.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 theoretically let's say calm down like realistically she's gonna be on the valley yeah lola doesn't have southern charm no offense in case you were wondering if i were to do like a scripted tv show i would do the office

Speaker 3 it's not on the air say more say more

Speaker 3 just kidding southern charm bear

Speaker 3 the office they're coming out with a new show

Speaker 3 i think it's already out no the office spin off it's not out yet it's not out yet no it's out in the beginning of september that was out the paper

Speaker 3 i'm actually looking very forward to that i think the like dry,

Speaker 5 you know, mundane work comedy you would slay.

Speaker 6 Who would we all be on the office?

Speaker 3 I never watched.

Speaker 5 That's a really good question.

Speaker 3 Zach's definitely Dwight.

Speaker 3 Zach is.

Speaker 3 I wish I got it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Justin. Oh, that's good.
I think you'd really appreciate that if you did.

Speaker 6 You would really appreciate that.

Speaker 3 All right, let me ask you this. If you were to

Speaker 3 pull a prank, if you think anyone in the office deserved a prank and maybe say put their mouse in jello, who would you put their mouse in jello? I feel like that's not a fair question.

Speaker 3 Leia. Well, Leia would want to do the prank for sure.

Speaker 5 The thing is, I would do it to Leia to Leia.

Speaker 5 And it would have been her idea, but then she would have forgotten.

Speaker 3 I want to put somebody's phone in the ceiling and just keep calling it.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Yeah, who's the most likely to punch a hole in the wall?

Speaker 5 We will,

Speaker 5 little insider T, sometimes we will text Leia that you're calling her.

Speaker 5 Be like, he wants to talk to you right now.

Speaker 3 And then she's not explaining about it.

Speaker 5 And then you're like, literally just letting go.

Speaker 6 Or Justin will literally just send me a text that says, Leia.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, what?

Speaker 3 I get a response.

Speaker 3 No, I get a response. She's a mom.
It's because Leia does that to us. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 Literally one night I was taking a shower and then leah like called me and i was like hey so i text her back because i might was listening to music and i was like i'm in the shower can we talk later and she was like oh yeah sure and then like i called her later and i was like what's up she was like oh i just want to like chat about something real quick sorry that was beautiful what was it about i don't know it was probably nothing probably nothing

Speaker 5 why'd you answer Because I was like, is it important? Because she was like, Mary, all caps. And I was like, is it important?

Speaker 3 You all caps her?

Speaker 3 It was 3 p.m.

Speaker 3 It was not 3 p.m. Are you in the shower?

Speaker 10 It was fully like eight o'clock at night.

Speaker 3 This is what Leia finds really funny, by the way.

Speaker 3 This is why we mess with her because she messes with me. She put paper on my head for no reason.

Speaker 3 That's so funny.

Speaker 5 She basically like made our office really like truly toxic one day, not emotionally, physically, because she started spraying me with silly string.

Speaker 5 And then we looked and it was like, do not stray inside.

Speaker 3 And it smelled like that for a day.

Speaker 5 It smelled like that for there. yeah, for the whole day.

Speaker 3 We have fun here. So that's inside tea at the biophiles.
Do you think Taylor and Travis will kiss on the podcast?

Speaker 3 Probably not.

Speaker 5 That wouldn't do well for auditory listeners.

Speaker 3 Stop it. No.

Speaker 3 What? You don't think they'll kiss? On the pod? I would be curious if it's even going to be the full podcast. I feel like it's going to be like 20-minute little bit of just like her promoting her.

Speaker 3 How funny would that be? That would be weird.

Speaker 6 That would be so funny if like it's a normal podcast and then they're like, oh, Taylor and Travis.

Speaker 3 Oh, because she can't handle talking. Well, I'm like, what do they talk about sports the whole time? Again, I've never listened to it, but I know.

Speaker 3 I don't think they just talk. I think they're multi-dimensional men who can, you know, bounce in and out of pop culture and sports.
Listen, I don't know anything

Speaker 3 about Travis and Taylor,

Speaker 3 but I'm just like, I do feel like they kind of keep things private. Like, I don't think we're going to get like an hour of them talking about their relationship or like on vacation they went on.

Speaker 3 So like, what, how long can you talk about an album? I guess for an hour? That seems offensive. What? How long can you talk about Taylor's album? How is that?

Speaker 3 I bet Taylor can talk about it a long time. Well, that's the same thing.
Unless we're going to literally go through who wrote on it, who played on it, what the inspirations were.

Speaker 3 I just don't see that for New Heights podcasts. Well, I also,

Speaker 5 what she's going to do is she's going to say very specific things that are loaded with Easter eggs.

Speaker 5 And then the Swifties are going to go in and turn a 20-minute conversation into a six-hour long YouTube video essay.

Speaker 5 And they're probably going to be right. Yeah.

Speaker 6 How many views do we think that this episode is going to get?

Speaker 3 Eight million. Does any YouTube video have a billion views? Gongnam style.
Gongnam style. It's going to have a million in the first 10 minutes.
For sure. For sure.

Speaker 3 Baby Shark has over 15 billion views. Good.
Baby Shark. Baby Shark Titan.

Speaker 6 Gongnam Style has 5 billion views. Desposito is 8.71 million.

Speaker 3 So Baby Shark is the number one. We used to be a profit country.
It's Desposito. Justin Bieber.

Speaker 6 Are you hip to the happy song?

Speaker 3 Like Pharrell? Yeah.

Speaker 6 Imogen Heap.

Speaker 3 Oh. That like makes babies stop crying in the car.
Anyways, while Leia finds the happy song, then I don't give a fuck about it. Let's get to our first interview,

Speaker 3 Brian.

Speaker 3 And hopefully, we'll find out his favorite color. He's up next.

Speaker 3 Well, obviously, one of the most meaningful things I get to do in the show is hear people's stories about the relationships and problems they have, and hopefully, try to help them from time to time.

Speaker 3 But sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm able to help. And there was this one listener who recently wrote in.
They wrote in and said, I love my partner, but I have zero interest in sex. It's killing me.

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Speaker 3 Brian, welcome to the show.

Speaker 11 Thanks for having me, man.

Speaker 3 First question.

Speaker 3 You know what it's going to be? I don't know what it's going to be. What's your favorite color?

Speaker 11 Dude, I don't have a favorite color.

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 come on, Brian.

Speaker 11 It depends on the season, the setting.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 3 I'm going to paint a vibe for you. All right.
It's autumn.

Speaker 3 Okay. All right.
It's six. It's like, it's a, it's a, it's a brisk 55 degrees.
There's football on. I'm not sure if you watch football, but.
You don't want blue. Blue? Blue.
Okay.

Speaker 6 Okay. Now I have a question.
Okay. You're in a hot tub with a beautiful woman.
It's summer and it's hot.

Speaker 3 What's your favorite color?

Speaker 11 Teal.

Speaker 3 Teal. Teal.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 5 That seems like a similar color to blue. Is there a common thread of blue?

Speaker 3 Your shirt is also blue. Your shirt is also blue.
Listen, I don't like to talk about it. I'm already blue.

Speaker 3 So anyway, I'm curious, Brian. Obviously, we've enjoyed watching you on the show.
And, you know, we like to have a bit of fun with

Speaker 3 our guests. But I don't know, what was your interpretation watching this back, seeing you in the hot tub with Parisa?

Speaker 3 How did you think you came across in that moment when Parisa, from our vantage point, was just like, hey, man, what's your favorite color? Let's play a little this or that.

Speaker 3 Like, let's just shake it up. We just barely know each other.
I don't fucking know, man. Top or bottom.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 you seem to like be in a certain kind of mood or whatever, but I just want to hear your perspective. We know sometimes maybe context might be missing.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 Don't want to put words in your mouth, but like, how did you just see it yourself? Did you like the way it came across? Or do you have any notes for us?

Speaker 11 Definitely didn't like the way it came across. Okay.

Speaker 3 How did it came across?

Speaker 3 A lot of backlash from it. Did you feel misrepresented in that moment listen

Speaker 11 for eight hours yeah eight hours tons of conversations i'm dancing i'm sweating i'm exhausted i just want to enjoy the night with parisa like there's a full moon the scene's set we're on the top roof we're in a pool there's a hot tub we have the whole place to ourselves we're popping champagne and like forcing conversations okay so you wouldn't you're not a small talk guy i mean to open with what's your favorite color is just the little lack of depth there.

Speaker 11 And I just don't know where we're going to go with it.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 11 And I'm just, I'm going to be, I'm a little tired and cranky from being in a bird outfit for eight hours. That's what I mean.

Speaker 5 Do you think that maybe because there are many different colors in the bird outfit, that's kind of where she was picking up on the

Speaker 5 your favorite color?

Speaker 3 Or maybe it just wasn't meant to be deep. Maybe it was just like, maybe she just thought it was going to be like a six-second conversation.
And then you would move on. It's a good perspective.

Speaker 11 It's an interesting perspective. I didn't think of, you know, the colors from the birds.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 11 Listen, I had a little moment.

Speaker 3 Like, what's your favorite color? Black, like your heart, Brian.

Speaker 11 I had a little moment. I'll own it.

Speaker 6 Brian, it did seem like you weren't picking up on how she was feeling in the aftermath of that because you kind of woke up and it was almost like everything was back to normal for you.

Speaker 6 And she was definitely still feeling a type of way. At least that's how we saw it.
So I'm curious to know, like, were you sensing that she was maybe a little off, a little upset by that?

Speaker 6 Or were you kind of like, it's it's all good?

Speaker 11 I mean, we had like a great night.

Speaker 11 We had a really, really good night together. Like, as soon as production and the cameras leave the room, like we got to completely enjoy the VIP, VIP suite.

Speaker 11 So I thought we had a really good time.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 11 They also woke us up really early. We thought we'd be able to spend a little more time sleeping a little bit.
That didn't happen.

Speaker 11 Listen, I pick up on things. Yes.
But in a nutshell, overall,

Speaker 11 I truthfully believe we had an amazing night.

Speaker 3 Okay. So you would kind of more chalk it up to almost like production fatigue a little bit, like just kind of exhausted of the

Speaker 3 grind that is making reality TV.

Speaker 11 100%. I mean, listen, did I have a moment? I had a moment.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 yeah, for sure. Minus that, just do you, did you have any other moments? Because it did seem like there were a couple of times where you just

Speaker 3 it kind of comes across, and maybe you're just tired, or maybe you're just getting a bad rap, you know, but you seem like kind of just annoyed at Paris all the time. Oh, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 11 that truthfully was my only moment that I have.

Speaker 11 Like, I had a great relationship with production and everything else.

Speaker 11 Loved it.

Speaker 11 Parisa,

Speaker 11 our relationship, no, is at this point in time, like going into like where we're at in the episode is like now flourishing. But in those moments,

Speaker 11 at times, she could be a little intense, and I was kind of adapting to it. I'm more of like chill, relaxed.
She's a little bit more intense.

Speaker 11 And

Speaker 3 just to play devil's advocate, Brian. It takes patience.

Speaker 11 It takes patience, like adapting to someone's personality.

Speaker 3 What is your favorite color? It's a pretty chill question.

Speaker 3 Just

Speaker 3 to play devil's advocate.

Speaker 11 I'm going to dress you like a bird for eight hours, have you sweaty, rain poured on you, waiting in the room, getting ready to perform.

Speaker 3 All right. So Brian has his breaking point.

Speaker 11 I'm going to ask you a question that you don't want to ask.

Speaker 5 You really did great as a bird. You know, the performance was incredible.

Speaker 3 Let's get into the whole journey of it all. I had no problem with you telling Bailey.
The only thing I didn't get

Speaker 3 was the lying after it. It was like, why didn't you just own it? You know what I'm saying? Like, because I did think it was fucked up that you're even, I don't care that you were friends with

Speaker 3 Jeremy. I think the, I think being a good friend sometime is to hold your friends accountable and say, hey, man, like, yeah, you're my boy, but like, why are you moving this way?

Speaker 3 And, like, you should, you shouldn't you should do something different right i understand andrew's point of view like yes i ultimately i'm nitpicking you probably should have gone to jeremy and said hey man if if you're not going to tell her i will but i really think you should just tell her and just get it over with there's no there's no good time to deliver bad news so why don't we just go why don't you just go do it now um but that aside why why didn't you just like

Speaker 3 I am assuming you're going to say you didn't want people to know and yada yada, but like everyone just kind of assumed it was you already. So why didn't you just like own that rather than like,

Speaker 3 you know, like your version was like, they, they asked me about Susie or Bailey? I don't know.

Speaker 3 You had this whole story that you came up with that was not remotely true, uh, rather than just being like, hey, man, like, yeah, Jeremy was kind of playing Bailey. I thought it was kind of fucked up.

Speaker 3 And everyone who's watching it would agreed with you.

Speaker 11 There's kind of like two pieces to that puzzle. And

Speaker 11 one of them is, is like Alex, her roommate knew, all of the girls knew, and like withheld information from her.

Speaker 11 So I almost like was giving the ability to the rest of the women in the house to just own it and keep me out of the scenario.

Speaker 11 And then the other side of it was I knew the backlash that was going to happen from the guys in the house, from the bro code and everything else that was going on.

Speaker 11 And the heat that I got from it was whether I was upfront with it in the beginning or not, it wouldn't have mattered. So like it really, it wouldn't have mattered.

Speaker 3 Even if it wouldn't have mattered, wouldn't you have rather just, you know, as they say these days, stood on business and just been like, hey, right is right. You can hate me all you want.

Speaker 3 But I don't think that Jeremy's been upfront with, with Bailey and she has the right to know. We would all want to know.
And like, kind of to your point, like everyone else wanted to downplay it.

Speaker 3 That seemed to be Jeremy's point of view, right? So it's like, well, I didn't think it was a big deal. And you proved everyone that it was a big deal to Bailey.

Speaker 3 And everyone else was kind of acting as if like, well, you know, Bailey and Jeremy are good now. So, like, why are we bringing up kind of that old news?

Speaker 3 Maybe they're only good because she's operating with half the information. So, like, I completely understood your thought process.

Speaker 3 It just seems like going forward, you would have been better off just like owning it and just like, because you took what you took what like seemed like you doing the right thing and then almost turned it into you trying to cover your tracks for doing something you shouldn't have done, you know, but I thought you did the right thing.

Speaker 11 I agree and disagree with you. I wanted the information to be relayed to Bailey.
I didn't want it to have to be expressed for me. You saw the difficulty that I even had trying to get it out to her.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 11 That was so difficult for me to even tell her.

Speaker 11 But she's like, you need to tell him.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You need to tell him.
Yeah, no, it's never, never fun delivering bad news.

Speaker 11 And with that being said, is like, me and her, like, kind of had a pact. And like, she stayed 10 toes down on it, too.
And she's like, I was like, let everyone know that this came from the girls.

Speaker 11 Cause like, they should have said it. And she held it down.
She told Jeremy. She's like, yeah, it came from the girls, Told everyone else.

Speaker 11 Honestly, Paris is the one that told everybody that it came from me. Because I'm like, who even told everybody? And it came from Paris.
So

Speaker 3 was it Bailey's idea to tell everyone it was from the girls or was it your idea?

Speaker 11 It was kind of both our ideas because we knew the backlash that would come from the guys.

Speaker 11 And we're at a point now where we're in a challenge that you don't want to put yourself in the crosshairs with anybody. So we get this, you know, backlash for the bro code from all the guys.

Speaker 11 Girls are projecting out of guilt because they haven't told her for literally we're three-quarters of the way through the entire season at this point. So I was like, how do we mitigate this? And

Speaker 11 we spoke about that and had that conversation, which actually,

Speaker 11 I don't believe it was shown, but you see how she does say it came the girls.

Speaker 3 So do you regret telling Bailey? No.

Speaker 11 Do I think

Speaker 11 it began to put me in the crosshairs and start to hurt Prisa and I's odds at winning the bag of 500K.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 11 But we start maneuvering in a way that

Speaker 11 helps us later on.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 6 Brian, yesterday we had Andrew on the show, and when we asked him about this situation, he made it seem like maybe this was a strategic move on your part to kind of get some competition out of the way.

Speaker 6 with Jeremy and Bailey. What would you respond to that?

Speaker 11 Shut it down immediately.

Speaker 11 Because I already knew what I was doing was actually going to completely hurt me

Speaker 3 in the game.

Speaker 11 So, like, that could just be shut down immediately.

Speaker 3 That's true.

Speaker 11 There was no benefit to me doing that because I was going to ensure that Bailey did not go home.

Speaker 6 So, what was your thought process in terms of your timing? Because at least the way that it's edited together, we saw that you were starting to think about it in last week's episode.

Speaker 6 So, what made you do it now as opposed to earlier?

Speaker 11 It's a great great question. So

Speaker 11 I did think about it from a leverage perspective when Jeremy and Bailey had the power of the rose to potentially send me home the week prior.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I don't want to go about it that way.

Speaker 11 I think that's the wrong way to go about it. I think Jeremy and I have a good enough relationship that he's not going to send me home.

Speaker 11 And then when we had the rendezvous opportunity, I'm like, you know what? Like this might be a good time where like there isn't all eyes on us to have the conversation with her. Like,

Speaker 11 she was, if I didn't, I'm telling you right now, if I didn't bring this up, she's going to watch this season and find out on this season, episode after episode of Jeremy talking about Susie.

Speaker 3 You don't think Jeremy would have ever told her?

Speaker 11 No chance.

Speaker 6 Did any part of you think that you should maybe go to Alex or to one of the girls and try to convince them to tell her?

Speaker 11 If you guys watched the season, Spencer had a conversation with him. Alex had conversations with other people about it.
And everyone was just scared and unwilling to do it.

Speaker 3 Is that what it was? They were scared. But

Speaker 3 why not say to Alex, well, would you have done anything different?

Speaker 3 Like, like hindsight being 20, 20, knowing that you don't have a regret telling Bailey, and knowing that you don't think Jeremy would ever have told her, I agree with both those.

Speaker 3 If you could have done anything differently, would you have at least... whether it's going to Jeremy or going to Alex, say, hey, listen, I feel very strongly about this.
She has the right to know.

Speaker 3 I don't want to be the one to tell her, but like, she needs to know so like you decide for yourself i'm either going to tell her or maybe she should hear it from her best friend or she should hear from the guy she's dating i don't think she should hear it from me i think we all agree on that but if you guys are gonna not say anything i'm not gonna keep watching this girl be kind of played you know no everyone's deciding her fate for her and that's not right like would you have done that differently your approach is

Speaker 11 valid

Speaker 11 but it's still giving people like an ultimatum Yeah, we're just talking about doing the right thing, you know? Right. And Alex is, I don't think Alex is really the type of person to

Speaker 11 create that conflict. Like she's scared of that type of conflict.
I have a lot of, and I have the ultimate respect for Alex. I love her.
She's super funny, super quirky, a doll.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 11 But she's not one that's going to like step up and create conflict. And anyone who's going to step up and have that conversation or try and force that conversation is creating conflict.

Speaker 11 And to be honest, I'm really like the only

Speaker 3 person

Speaker 11 that was going to was willing to do it. But I, yeah, well, I guess the only part of this is Jeremy pinning him into an area of saying, like, listen, I'm going to tell her.
If you don't tell her,

Speaker 11 it kind of leads to a similar outcome in terms of like the backlash from his perspective. And I think he could have just found it within himself to say it at some point, like, or the girls could have.

Speaker 11 So I stand by what I did.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But they weren't going to. You even said that.
I guess, but you're creating the conflict conflict by creating the ultimatum.

Speaker 3 You know, you're saying, hey, I don't, I know you're not going to do this, Alex, because you are risk adverse and whatever Jeremy has his reasons.

Speaker 3 But then that way, if they're not going to do it, then you go, then you can go tell Bailey and been like, hey, I tried to do the right thing.

Speaker 11 And I think we end up in the same place.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 6 Were you surprised that Bailey forgave Jeremy so quickly?

Speaker 3 Yeah, watching it back, I was.

Speaker 11 a bit surprised at how quickly she forgave him.

Speaker 11 I've also been kind of like staying tuned into what she's been saying, and she's

Speaker 11 pretty much continuously had my back that like my intentions were not out of ill will or ill intentions whatsoever. If I was her, I think I would have had more questions for him.

Speaker 11 But again, right now, that could be questions that they're having right now and discussing right now because

Speaker 11 I don't think any of us really knew how much, I mean, I, me and Dale knew, but like in terms of watching the show back, like how much she was saying in interviews and everything else, like we knew what was going on there, but like the continuous and like itm interviews and things like that of him talking about it was wild there is one comment that you said that he said that we didn't actually see and it was the proposing comment yeah doesn't jerry he he's uh up in people's comments denying that isn't he like some calling like a friend denying that yeah did that did he actually say that i can confirm that he said that okay where where did he say that he said in the in the room could he it could he it wasn't when we were he wasn't when we were in bird costumes could he be misremembering or do you think he's lying?

Speaker 11 Listen, I have a lot of respect for him. I don't want to call him a liar.

Speaker 3 I'm still fool with him.

Speaker 11 I'm still fool with everybody there, but did he say it? Yeah, he said it.

Speaker 3 And was he like people have said, as I haven't met Jeremy, but they've said he has a dry sense of humor, and he says things that I guess you shouldn't take seriously.

Speaker 3 I know he's denying he said it altogether, but it could have been

Speaker 11 in a humorous, comical way. But at the same time, it's like there was so much discussion about her,

Speaker 11 like DMing her after.

Speaker 11 If she came back, I would propose on the spot. I mean, I don't know if it's a joke.
Like, the date that they went on was like went so well. Like, he was smiling ear to ear.

Speaker 11 Like, you could naturally see, organically see how much fun and how good of a time that he had with Susie on that date.

Speaker 11 So he was, and again, like, I'm not one to judge because I think he was really just like stuck. Like, I really like this girl.
I really like this girl. I'd love to explore them both.

Speaker 11 I'm like, that's what paradise is supposed to be about. But the timing just wasn't there.
So, like, I don't judge him for that at all. And I think

Speaker 11 he was just kind of venting

Speaker 11 to us, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 3 What did you learn about yourself in this process?

Speaker 11 That I could take a lot of heat from people without reacting. Every single person

Speaker 11 in the villa was just coming at me. Like, Andrew's coming at me, Spencer's coming at me.
They're talking, you know, about me and Priest's relationship, that I mistreat her, and all these other things.

Speaker 11 And they're like, they're coming at my character and my integrity.

Speaker 3 And just the

Speaker 11 will to just sit back and digest what everyone is saying to you without

Speaker 11 reacting to someone and to sleep on it, digest, and just take away what you agree with, what you disagree with,

Speaker 11 and wake up the next morning and move forward with it. And I think just

Speaker 11 the callous of being able to handle that, I was pretty proud of.

Speaker 11 So I think that's what I would take away from it, honestly.

Speaker 6 All right. Do you think that it strengthened your relationship with Parisa?

Speaker 6 Because I feel like sometimes when you go through conflict or navigate something with someone, it can either break you or make you stronger.

Speaker 6 How do you feel like Parisa was as a partner during all of that?

Speaker 11 I will give Parisa all the credit in the world that the only reason we just got through that rose ceremony was because of her.

Speaker 3 How so? She held it down.

Speaker 11 Like, she just stood by what I did.

Speaker 11 And, you know, all the girls reacted and projected kind of out of guilt because, like, they were like, they obviously should have said something and they didn't. Right.

Speaker 11 And everyone kind of jumped on the train of like, he shouldn't have done that. He shouldn't have done that.

Speaker 11 And then, like, obviously, Wells was involved, but Parisa took like real initiative and saying, listen, like, we really should have spoken up. Like, he did the right thing.

Speaker 11 And she was just immediately in my corner from there on out, just holding it down.

Speaker 11 And honestly, I think we survived solely because of her and her efforts in getting the rounding up the girls to like completely understand, like, listen, you did the right thing.

Speaker 11 How has no one like brought this up yet? So that really brought us closer in terms of like her having, you know, my back and us, you know, just staying as a unit.

Speaker 3 Watching it back, in addition to just like holding it down, like watching you interact as a partner, did you learn anything about yourself in terms of like, yeah, just how you are as a partner, how you give or receive love and how you communicate?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I mean, even like I'm talking to her about it, because she thought like the rendezvous was like trying, like, I was trying to be romantic with Melee about it.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 11 And that wasn't the case. And she's like, all right, if you're going to do this, like, you got guts.
Like, you got guts. And I just really appreciated her riding with me the whole way with that.

Speaker 11 And then, in terms of being a partner,

Speaker 11 she kind of disagreed with me at first, but I think after really like communicating and getting on the same level, it's like just being in the right communication, the right state with your partner will dictate whether they're going to ride with you or not.

Speaker 11 So it's like, I think that was like really a turning point for Parisa and I in terms of like how close we became as a unit.

Speaker 3 Okay. What is Brian doing when you're feeling loosey-goosey, you don't have a care in the world, when you're the most unserious?

Speaker 3 Like what, what do you, what does that, what does that world look like for you, Brian?

Speaker 11 I mean, I'm just like socializing, cracking jokes. Like, you see, Dale and I just like laughing hysterically.
Like, he's like, dude, we're just some big ass kids. We're just some big ass kids.

Speaker 11 And, like, yeah, just, it's not, you know, just don't take life too seriously. Um, when you have to take life serious, take life serious, but like, try not to take life too seriously.

Speaker 11 You know, there's, I could elaborate more into like my hobbies and things that I like to do, but you can live with that too.

Speaker 6 How stressful was that for you when Dale was like, so you just, you didn't say anything, right?

Speaker 3 Because like you'd be such a horrible person if you had

Speaker 11 just because like I have the utmost respect for Dale and like he was he was my homie throughout the entire show and like he's the one that I stay the closest with like today so like not telling him the truth up front was awful like it didn't feel that good uh still doesn't feel good but like in conversations afterwards he's like listen I know you as a person I know like outside of the show your integrity as a person, like your character as a person.

Speaker 11 So, he's like, I'm not going to judge you for this at all. He's like, but from like a show standpoint, I have to judge you for this.
So, he's like, I cannot ride with you for this.

Speaker 11 So, he was super upfront. He's like, I can't vote to keep you here.
And that's what I loved about him is that he told me straight up. He was like, But outside of this show, he's like, You're my boy.

Speaker 11 But he's like, Right now, I cannot ride with you. Okay.
He's like, All right, I was like, At least you're going to be upfront about it and tell me straight to my face.

Speaker 3 That means a lot. Are you, are you cool with Andrew?

Speaker 11 Me and Andrew don't really speak. Uh, we don't have, we don't have problems or anything like that, But you know what's funny about Andrew's when I watched Paradise

Speaker 11 two seasons, like me and my mother are watching it late night in preparation for this paradise. He was like my favorite character.
So when I saw him come in on the show, I was surprised.

Speaker 11 And I was like, hey, man, like, I'm like a fan of yours of like your character, like you as a character on the show. Like, like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 11 Like, his character and like who he was in the show. And like, it was, you know, like a fanboy situation with him.
So what happened? We actually had that conversation post me speaking to Balin.

Speaker 11 He's like, bro, we were so good. Like, we were homies.
And, like, you even told me like that you were a fan of mine from like the last show. And like, we were so good.

Speaker 11 It's like, and then you go and do this. And like, now this is how I feel about you.
But I mean, yeah, outside of the show, we really haven't spoke.

Speaker 11 But the rest of the cast, we actually stay in touch quite a bit.

Speaker 3 Okay. Because he mentioned he didn't think you were very nice to Parisa.
But do you think that's bias?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 11 You know, towards the end of the show, like Spencer approaches me, Jeremy approaches me, Dale approaches me. And they're all like, dude, I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 11 Like, I've never seen someone like take so much heat and like so much criticism and just like without reacting. Like Spencer's like, bro, I would have punched him in the face.

Speaker 11 Because they began to realize that a lot of what was like kind of being shown or being told was like really out of context in terms of how Praise and I really were.

Speaker 11 Like we really are a strong couple and a strong duo.

Speaker 11 And there's just so much that's taken out of context and not just what the show depicts but really just the like internal conversations that people are having that are just not true and they begin to see that and they're like listen they apologize to me like listen we didn't know the context we didn't know the context like you actually have been like straight this entire time what what is the most untrue thing that you think people perceive about you whether you know from what we're watching or things like that or context that you think is missing or like what you're referring to your peers kind of saying to you.

Speaker 11 What, what is the thing that I mean, like, yeah, when, so, like, when we're having when Andrew's coming after me, and Spencer's coming after me, I'm sitting there, I'm just taking all the heat, it's crazy.

Speaker 11 It was intense. Um, they don't know the context.
They're like, Yeah, you mistreat her. I'm like, I really never mistreat, I don't mistreat women.
And I was like, I've never mistreated her.

Speaker 11 I maybe told her some things that like she may not have wanted to hear, but it was the, it was honesty. And it was honesty in order to like build our foundation for the future.

Speaker 11 And they never knew the context of any of it.

Speaker 11 So like kind of later on, when like Priest and I really start turning the corner and becoming stronger and she starts vocalizing those things and they're like, oh, okay.

Speaker 11 Like it wasn't him like mistreating her in any other, in any way. Like, I'm like go off the rails and disrespect her at any point in time, ever.

Speaker 3 Okay. You're just being honest.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3 Brian, we really appreciate taking the time, buddy. I know you took some time out of your very busy schedule, man.

Speaker 11 I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 You know, you work in what, MedDevice?

Speaker 11 Medical Aesthetics. I'm in Vegas right now.
Medical aesthetics, you know, Botox, fillers, some devices.

Speaker 3 Oh, you're like at a conference?

Speaker 11 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 11 Yeah. National sales meeting for the week.

Speaker 3 Pop off. Everyone's saying Vegas is dead.
What do you think?

Speaker 11 I don't think it's dead. I'm at the Fountain Blue right now.

Speaker 11 Last night was a Monday.

Speaker 3 It's pretty popping. All right.
What's your game? Listen, I was doing real well last night until I started drinking. Oh, wow.

Speaker 11 And I was up a couple thousand, and

Speaker 11 I could just say I'm not up anymore.

Speaker 3 You're not up anymore. Oh, man.

Speaker 3 You're like, what do you want to bet on? What color? And they're like, I can't do this game.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, okay. Last night it was a lot of black.
A lot of black.

Speaker 6 Put five bucks on 11 for me.

Speaker 11 11. So I was betting a ton on 11 last night.

Speaker 3 That's actually like, where I was my money. Oh, man.
Look what you did. Someone told me to bet on 11 and

Speaker 11 it didn't work out.

Speaker 6 I've never been successful with that either.

Speaker 3 Did you fuck with roulette? That's crazy.

Speaker 11 Well, like, you just play all the numbers.

Speaker 3 You play a bunch of numbers. like numbers.

Speaker 11 And I actually made most of my money in roulette. I was, I was losing it in craps and blackjack.

Speaker 3 Damn.

Speaker 11 I said, I also just want to plug in. I own a restaurant in the Hamptons as well.
Tacos Margaritas and Hampton Bays. So that's another thing.

Speaker 11 I just opened up with my brother-in-law as of the beginning of June. So that's another adventure that I have that I love to do as well.

Speaker 3 All right. What's the best thing on the menu? Tuna nachos.
Okay. Nice little tuna nachos.

Speaker 3 Over some nachos. Wow.
That sounds good.

Speaker 11 Mom margarita right on the water.

Speaker 3 Well, if I ever go to the Hamptons, I'll be sure to check it out. Me too.
Come check it out, man. Brian, appreciate your time, buddy.

Speaker 11 Thank you, guys. I appreciate you.

Speaker 3 All right. Talk to you later.
All right. Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye. Bye.

Speaker 3 Brian's never wrong.

Speaker 5 Honestly, when he was like, yeah, I was just in that bird costume, and I was annoyed.

Speaker 3 I was like, you know what? Fair enough.

Speaker 6 You know what, though?

Speaker 6 I do think that the reason everybody was so pissed off at him was projection. Like, I think that they were pissed at themselves for not telling Bailey.

Speaker 3 For sure. Yeah.
What I don't get is him standing on the whole like, well, I just wouldn't have done anything differently. And like, I agree with you, but I disagree.

Speaker 6 No, it's just like, I just, I think that he should have given

Speaker 3 pulled Alex aside, maybe, or Jeremy aside. It's like they had no notes about how he handled it.
It's like, I wouldn't have done things differently. I have no regrets.

Speaker 3 But it's like,

Speaker 3 you know. Like, come on.

Speaker 6 There's definitely things that he could have done differently.

Speaker 3 Right? Yeah.

Speaker 6 I mean, I think that even like doing the rendezvous behind parisa's back like why didn't he let her in on that sooner or like i consult honestly honestly honestly there's i bet i bet there's a lot of like production

Speaker 3 stuff timing wise the rendezvous date i'm gonna chalk that all up to trying to make a dramatic moment because nobody else

Speaker 3 working with production and and but that doesn't change the fact that like he could have just been like no i'm just gonna go ahead and tell the kid who's napping to go tell her You know?

Speaker 3 And also, it doesn't.

Speaker 3 What's your favorite color? It's not a hard question. It's not.
It's blue.

Speaker 3 It's obviously.

Speaker 3 He accused Parisa of being too serious when you're so serious, you can't

Speaker 3 play that girl. Has he met Parisa?

Speaker 6 He wanted to cut to the chase. They were in the hot tub, and he wanted it to be romantic.

Speaker 3 And then he was like, She was corny. You know, I know.
He was corny. He wasn't thinking about colors.

Speaker 6 He was like, I don't care about colors right now.

Speaker 3 We're in a hot tub. I don't know.

Speaker 5 I mean, that's what, but even in that moment, you just go, blue.

Speaker 3 There's something going on.

Speaker 6 There's something going on with colors that's like deeply triggering to him.

Speaker 3 And it's a hard, it's, it's the hardest question for him.

Speaker 3 He's a very earnest guy. Yeah.
He's very serious. You seem nice.
He's nice. Yeah.
He's really good looking, actually. He is.
You find him handsome. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I found him hotter in this interview than the show.

Speaker 3 I wish he would just chill out a little bit. For sure.

Speaker 6 Because he does seem like a funny, like, chill guy.

Speaker 3 He doesn't seem chill at all to me. Not in

Speaker 6 real life, it seems that way.

Speaker 3 You think he seems chill in real life?

Speaker 6 Like a jokester.

Speaker 3 I didn't get that vibe. Really?

Speaker 3 He seems very earnest. Like, what, you know, and what's wrong with being earnest? Nothing.
I'm earnest.

Speaker 6 You are pretty earnest. He definitely doesn't like being wrong.

Speaker 3 No. Or being told that he's wrong.
But what's one thing you learned about yourself? How awesome I am?

Speaker 3 I honestly couldn't believe I was capable of doing such things on reality TV is basically his answer.

Speaker 3 I don't know. Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 5 You got to respect the hustle.

Speaker 6 He makes good TV, though. I mean, I got to say this season of Bachelor in Paradise is actually really good.

Speaker 3 I'm just being honest.

Speaker 5 This is the first bat, to be completely honest, the first time I've been actively like, I enjoy watching this while watching A Bachelor.

Speaker 3 It's been fun. Yeah.
It's been fun. Nick hates Brian.

Speaker 3 i don't hate to brian i don't hate you at all i just i don't i think he could stand to be a little bit open to like not being right especially since like it didn't go the way he wanted it to yeah it's like all the things that didn't go his way were outside of his control is yeah i just no there are definitely things like i think even just like what could you have done differently with parisa and it was more like well i was just being honest you got to be honest it's like but there are ways to be honest that aren't tactful so it's the same way i get being tired, but sometimes you're tired.

Speaker 3 You don't need to be a dick.

Speaker 6 But it's also like you, you did the right thing ultimately with Bailey, but could you have gone about it differently?

Speaker 6 Yes, you probably could have tried to pull Alex aside and be like, hey, maybe you should tell her. Or pull Jeremy aside.

Speaker 6 And without it sounding like an ultimatum, just kind of be like, I encourage you to tell Bailey because it's not cool. She is going to watch this back.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You know what I think it is? I think my criticism of maybe not just Brian.
I think some of the men on the show and other reality TV shows.

Speaker 3 They're lacking in the empathy part of the putting themselves in the other person's shoes. Like Brian's just like, hey, I was in a goddamn bird costume all day.
I'm fucking tired.

Speaker 3 Why are we talking colors? I just want to chill. I just want to chill with my lady.

Speaker 3 And he didn't think to himself, like, I don't know, like, maybe this is a girl who's watched Bachelor her whole life and here she is having her first one-on-one.

Speaker 3 And maybe as a woman, she doesn't want to be like slut-shamed the way like women are often slut-shamed on TV when it's giving like, I just want to like fuck in a hot tub.

Speaker 3 And maybe she's trying to make conversation so she can like, you know, when the cameras go.

Speaker 6 It's also Paris's personality. She's She's very quirky and I love her.

Speaker 3 But whatever the reason, he was just like, I'm tired. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm too tired to talk about colors, but like

Speaker 5 in that moment, like Brian seemed charming in the interview.

Speaker 5 But in that moment, I was like, you don't deserve Paris's rock collection. Do you guys remember her rock collection?

Speaker 6 And her

Speaker 5 presentation. Her presentation.

Speaker 3 She has her cat. How is she? Shout out to Brian.

Speaker 5 Parisa, shout out to your cat.

Speaker 6 I just, it broke my heart when they were in the bed and she was like apologizing for being too much.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 3 I know, that's what I'm saying. You're perfect.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 he's making her feel like too much. He obviously is very good at

Speaker 3 stating what he's, his opinions and his conviction.

Speaker 3 And when he feels right, the person on the receiving end of that righteousness, I think, sometimes feels a little.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 5 I don't know if a

Speaker 5 quirky girl is the girl for Brian.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
Well, switching gears to a gentler gentleman, it's time to get to Freddy. Your heart throb from the perfect match.
He's up next. And then don't forget, we have Lisa Hoxteen.
Hoxtein.

Speaker 3 Hoxte.

Speaker 3 She changed it up on us. We're not entirely sure.

Speaker 3 Hoxtein. Hoxstein? Hoxte.
Anyway, according to Lisa Hox. She talks all about her very messy, very public divorce.
That is after Freddy. You are not going to want to miss it.
Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 3 Up next. That's Freddy.

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Speaker 10 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 10 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 10 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 10 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 3 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 10 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 Freddie, welcome to the show. Good to be with you.

Speaker 9 No, thank you for having me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's a pleasure for us, man. We're big fans.
I watched you a little bit on Love Island UK.

Speaker 9 Yeah, on Love Island, yeah.

Speaker 3 On Love Island, no, Love is Blind. Sorry.

Speaker 3 Would you ever do Love Island?

Speaker 9 No, I'm too old for that. I'm too old for that.
Are you too old?

Speaker 3 Are you like officially too old or how old are you? I don't know.

Speaker 9 33. I think I'm too old for that.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 you're probably too old. Well, you have swept the hearts of Americans in a perfect match.
And obviously, Love is Blind UK. You made quite the mark as well.
You're a

Speaker 3 fascinating character. You have this obviously good-looking guy, very interesting job.
How did you end up on reality TV in the first place? I'm always curious about that. Oh, do you know what?

Speaker 9 It's weird. So, right, honestly, like reality TV, I never thought.
never going to be on reality TV. I thought it's never going to be something I'd even consider.
Basically,

Speaker 9 I had a difficult breakup

Speaker 9 and literally I was on I was on TikTok it was only this was only like six days after I broke up with this person and I was on TikTok you know feeling sorry for myself I couldn't sleep and an advert came up on TikTok for Love is Blind UK casting now and I loved the show I thought it was an amazing show right obviously I'd never been in the UK before only the US so I just thought you know what I'm gonna just apply for it and if I'd known at that moment in time you're gonna go on the show and you know you're gonna go on this journey and have this wild adventure.

Speaker 9 Like, I probably wouldn't have done it, but because it was kind of like gradually, like one stage to the next, and then I had a then I had an interview, and then I met them, and then it was just kind of like one thing after another.

Speaker 9 In the end, it was just kind of like, I don't know, I just went for it, yeah. But that's how I ended up getting on the show, yeah.

Speaker 3 Oh, why do you say you wouldn't have done it?

Speaker 9 I just don't think I'm cut out for TV,

Speaker 9 I just, yeah, but do you know what? Like, it was a, I was, I was, I, I w I wanted to meet my person and I just thought, what an amazing opportunity if, if it happens.

Speaker 9 And obviously, I was so blessed to kind of be given that opportunity to attempt it. And yeah, I've never looked back, to be honest.
Yeah, amazing.

Speaker 3 Fascinating. And then you also have a very fascinating job.
You're a mortuary. You work in a funeral home.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I'm a funeral director.

Speaker 11 Funeral directors.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 what exactly does that entail?

Speaker 9 First of all, how did you get into that and then i'd love to understand a little bit we've we've heard about the job i haven't heard you explain it or like what you do or how you get into it and and all those things because yeah yeah of course so yeah my job is really fascinating most people are kind of either freaked out by it or sort of want to know more they want to know everything they're like do you believe in oh do you believe in the afterlife this like what have you seen like what have you done So I always get like an array of different like kind of reactions to my job.

Speaker 9 But I got into the job just because I just kind of fell into it to be honest I'm a passionate person I'm a compassionate person I care a lot about people and it's just something that I knew I could do I've never really been phased by kind of death or the idea of dying and I know that's really strange to to think about but it's never really something that's ever sort of phased me and I knew I could deal with that and I knew that I could look after people and yeah I just thought I'd just go for it and yeah I've been doing that for 10 years and my job role so I do everything so from the point where the the family contact us and say somebody's passed away until the point of the funeral so absolutely everything i meet the families i arrange the funerals i prepare the deceased and i conduct the funeral so i do absolutely everything wow so you're dealing yeah you're dealing with the the bodies yeah do you know what it's crazy you know because yeah crazy i because i don't i think that people look at me and they don't realize like

Speaker 9 how involved they are in sort of things that are kind of not really spoken about. And I'm the the kind of person, like, I don't take it on board.
It doesn't affect me as a person.

Speaker 9 Like, I can deal with like traumatic things and

Speaker 9 I don't take that home. And I feel very blessed that I'm able to do that.
And yeah, but it's a crazy job.

Speaker 9 I can't lie. It's a crazy job.
But I love it. And hence why I'm still doing it now.

Speaker 9 And, you know, I've been very blessed in a position that since Love is Blind, I've been given lots of different opportunities, but I still feel like I'll always kind of stay grounded and at my roots where, you know, hopefully I'll do that forever, that job.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 3 How did you get into it? Is it like a family business or did you just like see a... Did you also see a TikTok ad? Yeah.

Speaker 9 Do you know what? I don't ever know is that Snake. How did you get into it? Like, and

Speaker 9 I don't have a specific answer. Like I say, it's just because I knew somebody at the time, to be fair, I did know somebody that worked in the industry.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I just thought, oh, that sounds interesting. And yeah, before you know it,

Speaker 9 I was there. I've been there 10 years and I just worked my way up.

Speaker 3 Wow. So you see like a dead body almost every day?

Speaker 9 Yeah, absolutely. Wow.

Speaker 3 That's crazy.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 9 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Multiple, multiple.
Yeah. Obviously, it's not really something to think about because it's just, it's just work.

Speaker 9 But each, each person, genuinely, I'm not just saying this because it's a, you know, it's a podcast, but genuinely, like.

Speaker 9 Each person is, that's somebody's loved one and each person is cherished and looked after respectfully and with dignity. And so I don't see it as like a dead body.

Speaker 9 It's kind of just like somebody's loved one, somebody's that's somebody's mom or somebody's dad, somebody's brother, sister, child, you know, it's just, yeah, it, I don't see it like that.

Speaker 3 And I'm sure you get this questions. You alluded to it already, but like, are you like, are you a religious man or not a religious person? Or like, how do you,

Speaker 3 how do you, I mean, you mentioned it doesn't bother you, but like, how? Yeah, I guess how do you process all the emotions? Like you said, you're dealing with someone's loved one.

Speaker 3 I was recently at the doctor's office, and a doctor's office can be difficult because a doctor on a regular basis sometimes has to deliver bad news. And that can be very like

Speaker 3 draining on

Speaker 3 one person. How do you deal with the like the

Speaker 3 emotional heaviness of your job?

Speaker 3 Um, just knowing that, like, while it's not affecting you, and you have a job to do, and you are an empathetic person, but you obviously are seeing people in pain often. How do you process that?

Speaker 9 Yeah, it's, i think it's it is really difficult seeing people in pain and it's not nice to see somebody upset somebody crying about their loved one it's it's not a nice sort of situation to be in and obviously i witness it all the time but uh as i say it's not my pain and all i can do is try and support that person that family hold their hand and try and guide them through the process and kind of give them the sort of farewell for their loved one that they deserve so it's it's kind of i like i say i've said it a couple of times i feel blessed that i'm able to do that because i know not everyone can But in terms of sort of like the heaviness of it, you do, no matter what you do, no matter what your job is, you know, you have heavy days.

Speaker 9 You know, you can be a postman, you have heavy days, you can, you can work in any sort of industry and you can get home and feel stressed. But for me, just my family and

Speaker 9 I'm very passionate about the gym.

Speaker 9 So, yeah, just keeping myself fit and keeping my mental health fit, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Have you always been this jacked? Yeah, like moving on.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think, yeah. I've always like I'm in, I'm in shape, you know, like I'm, I'm, I look, you know, pretty good with my shirt off, but you got some guns, man.
Like, you.

Speaker 9 Have I? Oh, thank you.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 9 Yeah, no, it's not, I wouldn't say I've always been jacked. I mean, it's not like I came out of the womb and asked for a protein shake.

Speaker 3 It's just, yeah.

Speaker 9 I just, I just, I don't know. I've just been working out, very committed to it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Did you play sports growing up? Any athletics?

Speaker 11 Soccer.

Speaker 3 Okay. Soccer.

Speaker 9 Yeah, that's it, really. Soccer.

Speaker 3 I was saying, going back to perfect match, how was your experience versus being on Love is Blind?

Speaker 9 Totally different.

Speaker 9 Love is Blind is an incredible show. It was amazing to be a part of.
But Love is Blind is very heavy. It's you're talking a lot about your feelings.
It's deep conversations.

Speaker 9 And at the end of the end of it is marriage. So it's kind of like full on the meeting your family, coming to your house.
It's like really invasive and very,

Speaker 9 very full on.

Speaker 9 And I loved it like i love i love the experience it was incredible it was an absolute whirlwind it was a roller coaster of emotions one day i was crying my eyes out the next i was happy so it's and in comparison to perfect match it's a totally totally different show um perfect match is i can't believe how kind of

Speaker 9 left to your own devices you are like literally You kind of, you walk into the house and the producers are just like, right, there you go. Do your own thing.
And it's just mad.

Speaker 9 It's like, like, I can't, like, Love is Blind wasn't like that. Like, Love is Blind is not scripted at all.
It's all your own feelings, emotions, your own words.

Speaker 9 Well, I feel like that is very more kind of like you're guided towards sort of

Speaker 9 maybe the topic of conversation, but not what you talk about. But it might be like, okay, talk about what your future holds, what kids, et cetera.

Speaker 3 It's heavily structured, yeah.

Speaker 9 Whereas Perfect March was just sort of,

Speaker 9 right, come on in, cameras are rolling. And I feel like it surprises me that they managed to to get a TV show out of it.

Speaker 9 There's a lot of drama. Don't get me wrong.
Like, there's a lot of stuff that's happened that hasn't even been shown. I ain't going to lie.
But yeah,

Speaker 9 it surprises me how I remember being in it thinking, they're not going to get much out of this, but yeah, they are.

Speaker 3 I said, what are you guys doing all day? Because I do feel like you are just kind of sitting around a house until you have like a challenge or something.

Speaker 3 Like, what is a normal day at the perfect match house?

Speaker 9 You'll get up, have you read first,

Speaker 9 and then kind of be briefed on the day, like, this is what you're doing, get ready, we've got a challenge later on. Just a lot of lounger, home, I can't lie,

Speaker 9 and then obviously, you look forward to your challenge, and then that's usually there for several hours doing that.

Speaker 9 So, everyone's getting hot and bothered and complaining because the mosquitoes are biting.

Speaker 9 It's a lot, I think it's a lot more glamorous on the TV than it was being there, but it was great, it was great, yeah.

Speaker 3 Freddy, you obviously you come across as such a genuine, sweet, I think the internet says you were made by a woman, something like that.

Speaker 3 I don't know. But truly, like, you know, you do come across as a very kind of unique man in the best possible way.
And a lot of your

Speaker 3 peers on Perfect Match fit the mold of a more traditional young man in his 20s.

Speaker 3 You know, men who, like, for example, have a hard time, you know, not making out with other women, you know, because they're just like in front of them and things like that.

Speaker 3 I guess, like, what is it about you or like, why do you feel like you're different in that respect? Or are you just very intentional about like not doing that? Like what,

Speaker 3 why are you so different than some of these other more, you know, your typical kind of cliche men who play the role of the fuckboy very well

Speaker 3 and things like that? And yeah, why are why are you so squeaky clean, I guess?

Speaker 9 Do you know what? I think, I think it just comes down to sort of like, I don't know, I think that

Speaker 9 I think it's it's down to like your intentions, like what you're there for. Like for me, like I was there to meet a genuine connection and sort of try and establish that with somebody.

Speaker 9 And obviously I met Madison early on in the show and

Speaker 9 I was kind of we were both loyal to each other throughout the process and I didn't have any sort of intentions or sort of stray away or any desire to kind of pursue anything else because I felt like something was good was kind of developing.

Speaker 9 But don't get me wrong, like if I'd met somebody and the connection wasn't as strong as it was with Madison in the early stages, yes, I would have probably

Speaker 9 kept my options more open and looked at other sort of options. But I know, like, I went on the date with

Speaker 9 Rachel, which was really good. But I just feel like I was already building a connection with Madison.
So I was in a very difficult position because, yes, I did enjoy my time with Rachel.

Speaker 9 I really liked her. I thought she was a very pretty girl, but

Speaker 9 it's kind of like I was already building something out with Madison. And I wanted to kind of see what where that kind of unfolded.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Let's talk about your connection with Madison.

Speaker 3 I also watched her on Love is Blind.

Speaker 3 And I had a very, you know, I haven't met Madison in person. I had a very different interpretation of Madison that I had of you, where you come across as someone who's this very calm,

Speaker 3 level-headed,

Speaker 3 empathetic, you know, slow to anger, so to speak. And she kind of comes across as more, you know, toxic, reactive, you know, kind of holds a vendetta at times.

Speaker 3 Again, maybe this is all the edit and things like that, but I was shocked kind of by like how you are portrayed on these shows as this really kind and thoughtful person.

Speaker 3 And you paired up with Madison, who, who again, you know, I don't, I haven't met her in person, but

Speaker 3 seems to have a, I guess, kind of a mean streak. I don't know.

Speaker 3 But maybe you saw it differently. Like, what was it about Madison that draw you? And I guess, you know, or maybe, like, do you have a type too? Like, you know, maybe,

Speaker 3 maybe, maybe you're always drawn to the more kind of like, um,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 finals, yeah, fiery ones, you know, it's like, um, yeah, so what, what drew you to Madison? And

Speaker 3 I guess what you're seeing on TV, is that the person that you got to know while filming the show?

Speaker 9 So, so I'd say, first of all, um,

Speaker 9 I didn't, I hadn't seen Madison Schultz, uh, Lions.

Speaker 9 Lions I hadn't seen her with Lions when I first met her I didn't know who she was and likewise she didn't know who I was who I was either so I think it was important that I kind of established the connection and

Speaker 9 grow to sort of learn about her as a person through my own sort of connections and with her and

Speaker 9 yeah I feel like had I watched her show first I might have had a preconception about her which might have changed my opinion I don't know As far as our connection, like with me, she was amazing and very loyal, very sort of committed to me, very loving.

Speaker 9 And yeah, like she was great. However, yeah, I did, I did see the kind of fiery side of her.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 9 I did, yeah, I did see that quite a lot. And

Speaker 9 yeah, but with me, she was incredible, like really nice. And

Speaker 9 yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult because I'm, I, she, she was never like that with me, so she was never like that with me, okay?

Speaker 9 All right, but I did see it, I did, I did see it, and when I did see Love is Blind,

Speaker 9 it didn't surprise me, um, but that being said, she was great with me.

Speaker 3 Okay, so you actually went back and watched her season after you got back from filming.

Speaker 9 Well, her season hadn't aired yet, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Speaker 9 so her season aired, we were filming in September, her season aired in February, but I do remember watching it and

Speaker 9 I was a little bit kind of gutted to an extent because,

Speaker 9 yeah,

Speaker 9 it's difficult, but I was kind of gutted because I wanted her to come across how she was with me

Speaker 9 rather than how she is at times with other people, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. It's

Speaker 3 you know, when it comes to reality TV, if you have different sides of your personality, which most of us do, there's not a lot of time to show everyone's like full

Speaker 3 personality at times.

Speaker 9 Um, I think, yeah, I think that being said, what I do admire about her is she does always speak from her heart. And if whether she's right or wrong, I think she'll always vocalize her opinion.

Speaker 9 And I think that's like,

Speaker 9 you know, a good thing about her.

Speaker 3 So, yeah.

Speaker 9 And on Love is Blind, I think she did that. Like, I think she spoke from her heart.
And

Speaker 9 whether she was right or wrong, that's down to sort of your own personal interpretations of what she's saying. But I think, yeah, I think she does speak from my heart, and that's a good thing.

Speaker 3 Were any of the men that you got to know, and obviously you're a gentleman, so I'm sure you'll choose your words carefully, but

Speaker 3 you obviously hold yourself to a high standard.

Speaker 3 Were there any men that you got to know where you were just more like, you know, I don't, I don't think I mess with these people outside of the house, so to speak?

Speaker 3 Or maybe were there men that you were disappointed that they didn't hold themselves to a higher standard?

Speaker 9 I think there's definitely

Speaker 9 okay, so I got on with everyone, first of all. I just want to put it out there that I enjoyed everyone's company.
All the lads were great. All the girls were great.

Speaker 9 However, I think it's fair to say that I genuinely wouldn't kind of

Speaker 9 hang around with most of them outside the kind of

Speaker 9 the show.

Speaker 9 And that's not because I don't get on with with them. Like, I think they're great guys,

Speaker 9 and I would go if they've said, oh, let's go for a beer, of course, I'd go with them, of course, I would. But they're not, I wouldn't generally sort of hang around with them, I guess.

Speaker 9 But that doesn't mean I didn't like them because I did. They were great guys.
But there were definitely

Speaker 9 certain situations when I kind of maybe observe and think, okay, I wouldn't have done that, or maybe that was the wrong thing to do.

Speaker 3 Yeah, definitely. Anyone in particular that stood out to you?

Speaker 9 I don't want to. I think it's clear watching

Speaker 9 the show.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I think it's Claire watching the show. I don't think Anita can elaborate here.

Speaker 3 We'll assume it's Daniel.

Speaker 3 Freddie did not say anything.

Speaker 3 Just me.

Speaker 7 I have a question.

Speaker 6 So you and Madison seem to have a pretty smooth ride the whole way through compared to the other couples in their drama.

Speaker 9 Did you guys have a conversation about what went down at the boys mixer and kind of your thoughts on the women forgiving their guys so quickly yeah absolutely i mean me me and madison we we spoke every day and we got on really well we were very open with each other about like our intentions and sort of where we saw the relationship going outside the show and kind of where we were up to so we were always very sort of vocal about that and and equally about like the other couples as well like where we felt the other couples were at and

Speaker 9 We never spoke bad of anyone because there was no one to speak bad about. Like we literally liked every every couple.
So, but yeah, we definitely spoke about, you know, maybe, oh,

Speaker 9 you know, should Sandy have been a bit harsher on Louis for doing that? But yeah, and then, you know, Lisa, should she have kind of

Speaker 9 maybe, I don't know, made Daniel sleep on the sofa again another night. You know, so yeah, I think we definitely spoke about stuff like that.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Do you think you're done with reality TV for the time being? Or is it possible we could maybe see you in the future?

Speaker 9 I don't know. We'll have to see.

Speaker 3 Okay, so leaving the door open. All right.
All right.

Speaker 9 Yeah, off to see.

Speaker 3 Well, Freddie, we appreciate you taking the time, man.

Speaker 3 You're one of one.

Speaker 3 We really appreciate it. And

Speaker 3 it's a pleasure to have gotten to know you, man.

Speaker 9 No, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
All right.

Speaker 3 Take care, buddy.

Speaker 9 All right. See you later.

Speaker 3 Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
All right. It's a moment many of you have been waiting for.
We're not going to waste any more of your time.

Speaker 3 I'm going to get right to Lisa because she has a lot to say about this season of Miami and, more importantly, about her very public Messi divorce. and that is right now.

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Speaker 3 Of course, he's drinking out of a Chanel mug, you rich person, you.

Speaker 3 He wanted to say rich bitch, but he felt like he couldn't. I was like, oh, I can't say it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's like Amazon. Stop.
That's amazing. Lisa, welcome to the show.
We are honored to have you. This is a round of applause for

Speaker 3 Lisa. The legend, the icon.

Speaker 7 I've been waiting to do this one.

Speaker 3 We've been waiting to have you. So just we were hoping to have you in person.
I know you are very busy and you have a lot of things going on. You just filmed the reunion.

Speaker 3 It's also, I think you're dealing with some legal stuff at the moment. It seems like always.

Speaker 3 We are still very happy to be with you and happy that you are able to take the time because, well, one, we just want to use this time to get to know you, Lisa, the housewife, a little bit better.

Speaker 3 And then obviously you have a lot going on in your life right now that people are very into, very interested, a lot of like behind the scenes.

Speaker 3 Like, obviously, you know, we want to know more about you. So let's just kick it off.
Anything you want to share with us before we start? Like what's going on in your life?

Speaker 3 Like what was on your mind as you woke up this morning?

Speaker 7 I always have a million things on my mind. So, I don't know if, where do you want to start?

Speaker 3 It's like a

Speaker 3 roller coaster. Well, let's start with being just a girl from Toronto, Canada.
How did you end up on the beaches of Miami to become an iconic housewife?

Speaker 7 Well, I had no intention of ever moving to Miami. The goal was to live in Los Angeles.

Speaker 7 I had acquired my 01 visa, which I, you know, took a long time to get. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's basically an extraordinary ability for

Speaker 7 what I was in acting and modeling.

Speaker 7 So I got that visa and I happened to meet my ex at a pool party in Las Vegas.

Speaker 3 As one does.

Speaker 3 When you say ex, are you talking Lenny? Yeah. Are we, are we just not using?

Speaker 7 He is what brought me to Miami. Who's Lenny.
If it wasn't for Lenny, I would not be in Miami, probably. Maybe, maybe now.
At least he was good for something.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 he was good for that.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I guess. And my kids.
And the kids.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 So Lenny bought you to Miami. You met at a pool party.
What was his opening line?

Speaker 7 You know, I don't remember even meeting him at the pool party.

Speaker 7 He later messaged me or DM'd DM'd me on

Speaker 7 what was that? Um,

Speaker 7 MySpace.

Speaker 3 Wow!

Speaker 3 So vintage,

Speaker 3 very vintage. I had like a really cool MySpace page, of course.
You did.

Speaker 7 Um,

Speaker 3 who was your top friend? I was

Speaker 7 promoting my modeling, and we could, you got to pick the song and the music and the background.

Speaker 3 It was, you know, what was the song?

Speaker 7 I don't, you could, you had, you could change the music all the time and you could make like different backdrops and really fun.

Speaker 3 I spent most of my time in my accounting days when I was an accountant in a different life, like updating my MySpace. Yeah.
Yeah. It was mostly ranking friends, changing my music.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I kept you busy.

Speaker 3 I learned how to code back then. Yeah, you could have a 10 friend? Top eight.
You could change it, actually. Top eight.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 You could, you could change it to just a top friend.

Speaker 7 It was fun. And then I got this, I remember that some Tila Tequila.
She was like the big, you know, the big big face of MySpace. Yes.

Speaker 7 Remember that one? Yeah.

Speaker 7 And so Lenny messaged me and it was something like, you know, what would it take you to come out to Miami? I ignored it. I was like, what's this? You know, I got a lot of creepy messages.

Speaker 7 It wasn't that creepy, but I ignored it. And then later, a mutual friend.
said, why don't we go to Miami for Halloween? I said, sure.

Speaker 7 And then I was set up, but somehow it became a blind date with my ex.

Speaker 7 We could get, that's like too much time.

Speaker 7 So I went on this blind date and went to the Halloween party. And then I remember the mutual friend saying, one day this could all be yours.
And I was laughing. I thought that was funny.

Speaker 7 And then it was until it wasn't.

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, looking like looking back at your life, like you being in Toronto, looking back, did you ever imagine your life as what it is now?

Speaker 7 I really didn't know what where my life was going to going to take me. I just knew I wanted to be an actress and I wanted to live in LA

Speaker 7 and you know be on a soap opera.

Speaker 3 And I guess that's where I am. Honestly, you are on a soap opera.
You've made it.

Speaker 3 If you could have acted on any soap opera, what would have been your soap opera of choice?

Speaker 7 My mom loved young and the restless and the bold and the beautiful.

Speaker 7 So much so that I actually learned how to play the

Speaker 7 young and the restless song.

Speaker 5 No way.

Speaker 7 Yeah, so I can play that.

Speaker 7 I would play that for the, I played that for a recital, and my mom just loved it. And she would always ask me to play it for her.

Speaker 5 It was like, did you ever meet Eileen from Young and the Restless from Beverly Hills? No, I've never met.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. No.

Speaker 3 So, well, let's see. Should we just dive into the all things divorce and Lenny, and then we'll get in, we'll just move on from, should we just dive into Lenny? Enough of this small talk.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Give us the tea, Lisa. So

Speaker 3 when did it all go wrong? Was there a turning point in the marriage where you felt like,

Speaker 3 you know, this is not what I thought I signed up for? This isn't the man that I thought I married? Was there, or was it just kind of a gradual, you know, crumbling of the marriage?

Speaker 7 Well, there was an incident, and I did speak about it in season five that happened before my son was born, obviously, where we almost, we were separated for all, maybe a month and a half.

Speaker 7 We were separated. And I was, but I was still in the house.

Speaker 7 he i found out he i found i caught him cheating

Speaker 7 um

Speaker 3 with i'm not i don't want to give this person any time because you know these yeah don't know airs on you caught him cheating with a loser did i say loser no i didn't he is yeah i'm saying we don't want to give him yeah we're just going to call them losers yeah yeah i said it yeah

Speaker 7 they're all there if you're if you're gonna go after a married man you're a loser

Speaker 3 period

Speaker 7 period i don't i don't like cheaters and i don't like yeah they're just bad people. And I wouldn't want to do business with them.
I don't want to be friends with them.

Speaker 7 I don't want to have anything to do with cheaters. I don't know how I got back together with my ex, but again, I had my kids.

Speaker 3 So there's that. So this was after the birth of your son that you caught him cheating.

Speaker 7 No, but the first time, the first

Speaker 7 time that I, when I caught him, uh, was before it was around,

Speaker 7 you know, funny thing, it was around a Halloween party. That's when he started this thing.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 7 the infamous Halloween parties that I hated, I hated because

Speaker 7 they were just full of it, was like

Speaker 7 a speed dating, maybe for him now that I look back on it.

Speaker 3 You know, just a bevy of half-dressed women, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 I look, I'm not a prude, I like parties, and I, you know, I met him also at the Halloween party.

Speaker 3 Wow, huh,

Speaker 3 the patterns,

Speaker 7 the Halloween parties are the problem.

Speaker 7 Yeah, so the Halloween parties are the problem. And

Speaker 7 they just became more and more and more of a problem because

Speaker 7 there was always communication with single women on Instagram, inappropriate. I didn't like it.
I felt like the crazy one because I would say, I don't like it.

Speaker 7 It would lead to huge fights between him and I. And he really made me feel crazy.
Like I, like, I was wrong that, that that's not normal for me to not be okay with him having friends.

Speaker 7 He's like, they're just friends. I'm like, no, no, no.
You shouldn't have like little women friends that are in their 20s.

Speaker 3 Nope. Was he pretending like, like, like a photographer who pretends he's like, I'm just a photographer and I want to shoot you or whatever? And like, was he like offering like plastic surgery advice?

Speaker 3 Was he like saying, like, what was he saying was the origins of these friendships? Or was he just like, oh, we're just friends?

Speaker 7 It was starting off. That's what it started off as the invite to the Halloween party.
Okay. It was always about the Halloween party.
The Halloween party is a big part

Speaker 7 of what led to a divorce.

Speaker 3 Okay, so how did you catch him cheating? You saw it on his phone. You like.

Speaker 7 The first time, which was in

Speaker 7 2013.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I saw it on his Instagram. I have, you know, I like Snoop sometimes.
Sure. Why not?

Speaker 7 And like, I think we all do a little bit, you know, his computer was open and I looked and I see this message from this woman. And I'm like, that's odd.
And then

Speaker 7 I somehow was able to get his password for his iCloud, like iMessage. So I had that.
And then I found out and I confronted him.

Speaker 3 What did he say?

Speaker 7 And yeah, then he, then he finally admitted it and

Speaker 7 wanted a divorce and said he didn't love me.

Speaker 7 And I remember falling to the ground.

Speaker 3 It's like

Speaker 7 falling to the ground. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So Lenny has reportedly denied having an affair, saying that you were living separate lives for months, but he was caught on a hot mic telling a friend.

Speaker 3 that you didn't know and that no one knew about it.

Speaker 3 What was your reaction to that?

Speaker 7 Well, I already had, you know, this is how many months later,

Speaker 7 and I was told by the production that I'm going to see something and I'm not going to love it.

Speaker 7 But I was told, you know, last minute, because apparently they discovered this footage, you know, late into the editing.

Speaker 7 So I actually, I was with Jodi when I watched it and I was at my house, the old house, Star Island house.

Speaker 7 And when I saw it, I was, I was in tears still because, look, it was still fresh, even though I had Jodi beside me.

Speaker 7 Even he was feeling terrible for me to see that, to see him say that while we're having a good vibes, it was a good vibes party.

Speaker 7 And I didn't think anything was wrong. I was having, I looked back at those photos and that footage, and I was having a great time.
I was dancing with my daughter.

Speaker 7 It was smiles. I was taking photos with Lenny.
No idea that that's what

Speaker 7 he, that's that's what was going on and speaking to a mutual friend

Speaker 7 about him having a whole other relationship and wanting to leave me and that he couldn't be with me because it would be cheating on the one that he really wanted, all of that while my son is sitting like, you know, in the other room, it was, it was really, really upsetting.

Speaker 7 It was really devastating. It was heartbreaking.
It was.

Speaker 3 like a you know another stab in the in the chest did you address him directly about it Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 What did he say?

Speaker 7 He's like, I don't know, like in denial about it. Like, oh, that was editing or, I mean, how can they, they're not going to edit that.
They literally found that footage.

Speaker 7 Even Matt Anderson, our producer, recently went on a podcast and he spoke about finding that footage and how he felt about that.

Speaker 7 Finding that footage that wasn't found in the beginning. They somehow found it.
And you can't just make it up no matter what, even if it was in a different

Speaker 7 you know scene he still said that right to your mutual friend and it is what it is it's did he ever own up to you about having an affair or cheating on you no no no no he wouldn't he would never he never um

Speaker 7 would say anything negative about himself right why would he yeah so he's never like has he ever apologized ever for anything nothing not even nothing just so you understand what i'm dealing with not one thing In fact, it doubles down.

Speaker 7 He doubles down on things.

Speaker 3 Well, going back to the first, I mean, the first instance where you caught him cheating, I mean, y'all obviously worked through that. You then had two beautiful children.

Speaker 3 I mean, how were you able to move on from that?

Speaker 7 I don't think I ever moved on. That's really, that's something really difficult to

Speaker 7 lose trust.

Speaker 7 is really hard to get back in a relationship like that. And it was so embarrassing.
It wasn't so public, but all of Miami knew.

Speaker 7 Miami is a small town. It's a small place.
Right.

Speaker 7 And everybody knew. We were like the laughing stock of Miami.
And then now on a much bigger scale, was I embarrassed when the show came back, obviously.

Speaker 3 Because obviously also you're choosing to get back together with him and forgiving him. for something you believe happened, but he's never admitted to it happening.

Speaker 3 So how, yeah, that must have been a challenge to even try to move forward because you're still kind of, you're both kind of living this lie.

Speaker 3 You're kind of, you have to choose to forgive someone who's never acknowledged or apologized for the very thing that hurt you.

Speaker 3 And he's still denying that it ever happened, even though deep down you believe it to be true.

Speaker 7 Yeah, he says that the that

Speaker 7 first time that nobody ever slept together, which I don't believe for a second. Like, it's, you know, I don't, I don't believe that, but that's what,

Speaker 7 that's what he, he still, that's what he said, and that's what he will continue to say. But I

Speaker 7 feel otherwise. And it's, you know, it's pretty clear.
They went to Vegas, these two. These, I don't know.
They went to Vegas. There was like a shopping spree.

Speaker 7 The person was rubbing it in my face, like harassing us for years. It was like a whole thing.

Speaker 3 So, yeah. So, like, his ex was harassing you.
Like,

Speaker 7 I wouldn't say it was an ex. It was like a

Speaker 7 fling or whatever that lasted up to for about a month. And then

Speaker 7 he, all of a sudden, when I,

Speaker 7 I guess, took off my ring and people knew. And I think I posted a photo like, you know,

Speaker 7 without my, without my ring. And it kind of went somewhere.
But, you know, Instagram wasn't really a thing in 2013.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7 And then that's when he kind of came back and he asked for me to come back. And he posted this thing.

Speaker 7 with us our wedding photo on his Instagram that was like his big apology to the like for what had happened. And

Speaker 7 he let me have his Instagram account and password. And that was like his way to maybe solve the problem.
It didn't solve it though.

Speaker 7 Like it, you know, actually probably made it worse because I was always checking and maybe seeing things and making a bigger deal out of things.

Speaker 3 I think I remember maybe it was season four or season five, but there was a point where your marriage was kind of falling apart and you guys were trying to sit down at a table and like he was giving you nothing.

Speaker 3 And I was just wondering, do you find that there was a lot of pressure on you with filming like with him to try to present as a happy family with knowing everything that you were going through?

Speaker 3 Or like, why would you still want to film with Lenny?

Speaker 7 That's what a lot of people caught. But for me, I was so used to this behavior.
I'm, I just thought, like, this is him being him until I saw the footage for myself.

Speaker 7 And I'm like, whoa, that doesn't look, that doesn't look great. Right.
I don't like how he's treated. I don't like how he's talking to me, how he's dismissing me.

Speaker 7 But in the moment, it just felt like our normal, our, our normal banter

Speaker 3 and sadly that's that's what i was used to for years looking back how do you do you ever like think about moments and watching those scenes back seeing how he treated you how would you have wanted to do things differently if you could do them differently with in terms of our marriage or in terms of the like the show like what i get yeah more about the marriage just so yeah more your personal life Look, I tried to go to therapy.

Speaker 7 He wasn't into it. He didn't believe in therapy.

Speaker 7 We tried to do therapy with the lat when the last thing happened in 2013. And I just gave up.
And I remember the therapist telling me, like,

Speaker 7 this is who he is.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 You're going to have to deal with this type of behavior. And I was in love.
And I wanted to have the family we were trying so hard to have. So, and you know, I already invested so much of my time.

Speaker 7 I moved my whole life there.

Speaker 7 I felt like he was genuinely sorry. And I figured, you know, it's Miami.
This stuff happens all the time. You know, but I wish I stood up for, I wish I stood up for myself.
I wish that

Speaker 7 I

Speaker 7 didn't let him tell me what was normal because my instincts were telling me this wasn't normal. This is not how a marriage is supposed to be.

Speaker 7 Just because we live in Miami, men aren't supposed to behave this way. Men aren't supposed to be having

Speaker 7 these kind of secret conversations with single women on Instagram, Instagram models, whatever.

Speaker 7 You know, like all of this stuff was so inappropriate. I felt it.
I knew it, but I was, I felt crazy. He made me feel crazy.
And I wish that

Speaker 7 I stood up for myself. But then I always go back to, okay, but if I did that, then I wouldn't have my kids.
And I'm very grateful to have my kids.

Speaker 7 So I feel like, yes, everything happens for a reason, but I'm happy I'm out of it now.

Speaker 3 Hey. Did your relationship change after you had your children?

Speaker 7 It was, I mean, when we had Logan,

Speaker 7 it was like amazing, you know, we were so overjoyed. And L, same thing, but

Speaker 7 things were a little different, I think, because we were in with Elle, because we were in the Star Island house. And I remember

Speaker 7 having Elle and wanting to just have like all of this time. with our with our family bonding with Elle because we just, you know, brought her home.

Speaker 7 And then he wanted to have a bunch of people over and he wanted to have a football party. And

Speaker 7 I wouldn't typically have a problem with that. The reason we got in this big fight is because it was a bunch of promoters.
There's nothing wrong with promoters. Okay.

Speaker 7 But there was a bunch of promoters and like young 20-something-year-old girls all over the house. And I have my newborn daughter upstairs.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 So I just remember getting livid and going downstairs with my baby and just looking at everyone like, why are you here?

Speaker 3 Rightfully. So, yeah, yeah, oh,

Speaker 3 I couldn't imagine, like, having we have a young daughter ourselves. I couldn't imagine

Speaker 3 our having our one and a half-year-old at home and me throwing an influencer party while my wife is.

Speaker 7 I took a photo that day of all of these girls around the pool. Like, I wanted to go downstairs and just sit by the pool with L

Speaker 7 and have him enjoy

Speaker 7 this blessing, this new, amazing

Speaker 7 person in our family. And

Speaker 7 he was really upset that I was angry because he really wanted to have that party.

Speaker 7 And again, I felt, he made me feel crazy for getting upset that all of these random women were like, okay, have a have a party for football, but why does it have to be all of these people and strangers?

Speaker 3 You're probably like, I bet none of these girls can tell me the score.

Speaker 3 You know? None. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's also like you're all, you're, you know, you bring home a newborn baby from the hospital you're already like they don't need to be around other people, you know, they're so fresh and germs germs and then he's like no here's a bunch of strangers that like I've never met and definitely like aren't going to be a part of our daughter's life like definitely aren't important like sure let's have them around our he definitely invited Goneria and Chlamydia over

Speaker 3 that that's it's crazy that he made you feel crazy at that moment because you had every right.

Speaker 7 I mean, I mean, and I think he had enablers around him or like flying monkeys all around him where they would say, yeah, bro, like she's crazy. Uh, you know, what your wife is such a bitch.

Speaker 7 You know what I mean? Like these are the type of people that were around him. None of them were married.

Speaker 3 Red flag. Red flag.
You heard one of his friends call you a bitch to him?

Speaker 7 He would tell me that.

Speaker 7 He's like, oh, all my friends think you're a bitch because I was mad that there was all these parties with a bunch of single girls in their 20s that i had nothing in common with and neither did he and it's fine okay like i'm not a prude it's fine to to have people over so i guess the guy single guy friends can have something crazy

Speaker 7 it's not fine you know i don't you see i'm still making excuses no no it's like yeah you can still i literally felt like thank you for you know like i'm actually happy this is therapeutic because all these years and up until like three years ago, four years ago, like I was made to feel like maybe this is my fault.

Speaker 7 It's, I'm the, I'm wrong because I was angry that he wanted to have friends. There's just friends, Lisa.

Speaker 3 Like, his friends were freeloaders.

Speaker 7 You're sending the wrong message to these women when you're inviting them over,

Speaker 7 asking them if they want to have a, if you, he actually asked one of them if he could throw her her birthday party and if I could help plan it.

Speaker 3 Like, absolutely.

Speaker 3 What the hell? This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 My friends are freeloaders and they're mad because the wife is cock blocking from them getting laid from drinking your alcohol from hanging out at Star Island at your house.

Speaker 3 Lisa, you deserve a man who worships the ground that you walk on. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 And, you know, you deserve like his only response should have been when you were having his beautiful children should have been like, what do you need? How can I serve you? How can I make you happy?

Speaker 3 Are you comfortable? Are you relaxed? How can I eliminate stress from your life? That should have been his only job at that time in your life. Yeah.
But literally, he had to replace.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God. Now, so, like, looking back, and you know, we obviously have a lot of women, a lot of young women listening to this episode.
You know, what would you tell your younger self?

Speaker 3 Because, like, sadly, like, as much as we're all like, holy shit, I can't believe you had to go through this.

Speaker 3 Like, sadly, there are like relationships out there and men who find this behavior to be normal or like this type of kind of gaslighting behavior.

Speaker 3 So, what are the signs that you would have told younger you? And if there's a young woman out there who maybe like

Speaker 3 they're listening to you talk and she's like, My boyfriend throws parties for models too,

Speaker 3 what would you say to your younger self or to the young lady who's watching or listening to this episode? What are some signs to look out for?

Speaker 7 Thank you. You are not, sorry.

Speaker 7 You are not crazy. Even

Speaker 7 the men that try to justify following a bunch of Instagram models publicly at that, I mean, go do it on your burner account, maybe.

Speaker 7 Even that is better than the public liking, the public communicating, the DMing, all of that. That is not okay.

Speaker 7 Red flag. And if you see that behavior, run for your life because it's not going to get any better.
It's going to get worse.

Speaker 7 They are going to cheat on you, and your marriage is going to end up in divorce. So

Speaker 7 run, run, run, run. And that's that's what I would tell my daughter.
Don't let your dust, like someone's dusty son come around and, you know, love bomb you with things.

Speaker 7 And, you know, that's, that's also a red flag. The love bombing, the, you know, promise of a life.
And like, first of all, number one, red flag, if they're already married, let's talk about that.

Speaker 7 Then, and they have two kids, especially one that's just born. That's probably not the man for you.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, like the one. So, yeah, like all of that.
How have you navigated with your children? Obviously, like, children are sponges, they pay attention to everything.

Speaker 3 And they have this father who doesn't treat their mother with any ounce of respect. I mean, how are you?

Speaker 3 You must be working overtime to like show your children what true love is and like how to actually treat a partner.

Speaker 7 Well, my kids see that. I don't know.
I really don't know what's fully going on, only from what my children tell me. Logan is very smart.

Speaker 7 Elle is in, my kids are so smart, just like everyone says, but my kids are, it blows my mind, the things that come out of their mouth. They're listening to everything.

Speaker 7 They see everything.

Speaker 7 They

Speaker 7 probably read things online, which, which sucks, you know, like our divorce was so public. I don't know, one of the worst divorces I've ever seen, and it's mine.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 Like, play out in the public. Somebody compared our divorce once, and I'll never forget it, to like Donald Trump and Ivanka Trump's crazy

Speaker 7 divorce because it was just so

Speaker 7 it was just all over the media.

Speaker 7 So that really hurts me from my kids. And look, even now, I'm like, oh, I'm still, you know, but it's, it's out there.
It's out there. And

Speaker 7 yeah, I'm kind kind of biting my tongue now because I'm just, you know, I'm talking about them seeing stuff, but it's, it's hard because they're going to see it.

Speaker 3 Well, you're going to Google it themselves.

Speaker 7 They're going to see, you know, Hochstein. They're going to Google and they're going to see everything.

Speaker 3 But what's unfortunate about it is like, you can only tell

Speaker 3 what has happened to you, what you've lived through, what you've had to survive.

Speaker 3 It's unfortunately their father who's made a lot of poor decisions and have and has, he chose to treat their mother with such disrespect that like that's that's a conversation he's going to have to have with them.

Speaker 3 Like, you can walk and hold your head high, knowing that, like, you've had the most respect for yourself and for your children, and like have tried to handle this with as much grace as possible.

Speaker 3 But, like, it's hard when he's putting you in these situations that he's putting you in.

Speaker 7 Not only that, I

Speaker 7 really try to, as you know, everybody knows I stayed clear of all the podcasts. Everybody wanted me on their podcast in the beginning stages of all of this.
And I always said no. I wasn't ready

Speaker 7 to talk about it. I was contractually, and it was my job to be on my show and to talk about my real life, right?

Speaker 7 So I couldn't get out of that one. And

Speaker 7 I'm happy I did because it showed my side and it definitely

Speaker 7 leveled the playing field, you know?

Speaker 7 Imagine I didn't have that, my side.

Speaker 7 I don't know what I would have, what I would have done without the show, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 7 The producers were very, very, very supportive of what was happening to me. And all the, you know, the women were very supportive too.

Speaker 7 Everybody was.

Speaker 7 So to have that

Speaker 7 really, really helped me because maybe it stopped him from doing worse things because I did have this platform.

Speaker 3 Yeah. There's a record of like what you went through.

Speaker 3 And honestly, I think it was season six last was like the one during your divorce, and I feel like that was really hard to watch because you're literally just like doing the best you can, and this guy is just throwing grenades at you left and right.

Speaker 3 And then it's like you have the women. Where I was like, who was the most supportive friend out of the cast for you during your divorce?

Speaker 3 Because it kind of felt like you were on your own there for a bit.

Speaker 7 Well, we're

Speaker 7 well, you know, we're not in a great place now,

Speaker 7 but I do have to say that Larsa

Speaker 7 was really there for me. Yeah.
And, you know, I missed that, but things,

Speaker 7 things are not so great this year. We'll get into that later, but she was, she was really there for me.

Speaker 3 Your ex Lenny, you've mentioned a few times publicly that he's a bit retaliatory in terms of controlling funds and kind of getting back at you and trying to punish you for whatever he thinks you're doing wrong.

Speaker 3 Is he still making your life miserable or is he still very retaliatory?

Speaker 3 And I guess, how do you try to navigate, you know, just even doing this interview, like speaking up for yourself and trying to get the truth out there versus having to live in fear with your ex and how he might respond to you speaking up honestly about your situation?

Speaker 7 Well, you know what? All I say is the truth. So I'm not afraid to speak the truth.

Speaker 3 It's when you lie, you have a problem.

Speaker 7 Things were getting better once him and his... his ex-fiancé, when they finally broke up, even the first time they broke up, there were less articles coming out, if you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 Because this one was really trying to make a name for herself.

Speaker 7 I think that she used my family, my kids, the show

Speaker 7 to gain fame, notoriety, but it didn't work out. And I think after three years,

Speaker 7 seeing that she wasn't being received by anyone in a positive light at all.

Speaker 7 She wasn't becoming this big famous model that she thought she was going to be.

Speaker 7 Or I heard someone say allegedly that she wanted to be the new queen of Miami, which I've never even called myself the queen of Miami.

Speaker 3 Please.

Speaker 7 There was a lot of issues, more issues when they were together because I feel that she was inserting herself

Speaker 7 so much into our divorce that it made it 10 times worse.

Speaker 7 And then it got a little bit easier. And I don't know, now it's not again.
So it's a lot of up and down with this man.

Speaker 7 It's not great right now for sure.

Speaker 3 Is that because he has a new girlfriend?

Speaker 3 Is that true? Is he dating someone?

Speaker 7 Yeah, he has a new girlfriend. So I just don't think he's a happy person.

Speaker 3 How long did you find out about his relationship with his ex-fiancé before it went public? How long did you know before everyone else knew?

Speaker 7 Oh, she was quick to get it out there.

Speaker 3 Yeah. okay.

Speaker 7 Because I remember it was April 27th, 2022. I remember all the dates that are like meaningful, you know,

Speaker 7 significant dates. It was that date, is the day he told me he wants a divorce, and that day I knew that

Speaker 7 something bad was happening. Like, this was this wasn't a joke, this wasn't a test run, this was actually happening.
I actually,

Speaker 7 two months before that, received a DM from a follower fan, I guess. And she said, I am so sorry, Miss Mrs.
Hochstein. I just saw your husband at this building, which turned out to be her building.

Speaker 7 She was living in at that time. And he was with this tall, young, skinny model, and they were all over each other, whatever.

Speaker 7 And I was actually at a wedding solo because he didn't want to go with me because I guess this is what he was doing. And on the way back from Palm Beach, it's a long drive, I called him.
I'm like,

Speaker 7 what am I seeing? What's going on? Why are you at this building? Who is this girl? And it's not like this

Speaker 7 building you would think somebody would have this great after party. It was just a normal building in Brickle or wherever it was.
And

Speaker 7 he said, oh, no, it was just like an after party. And I'm like, well, you should have been at the wedding with me, but whatever.

Speaker 7 And then turns out that that is her building. So it turns out that he was with her.
even months ago.

Speaker 3 Not to like judge lifestyles or anything like that, but why is a man in his late 40s, early 50s with two children at home and a wife at a wedding going to after parties?

Speaker 7 He's almost 60, by the way.

Speaker 3 Oh, he's almost 60. Even better.
Sorry.

Speaker 3 Yeah, why does he feel like after parties was a priority in his life?

Speaker 7 Well, I mean, why were Halloween parties a priority?

Speaker 3 He liked to party.

Speaker 7 That should have been not a priority.

Speaker 7 You need to go through change. People go through changes in life.
And like, look, that was maybe what we wanted to do when we first met. But then you have a family and things should change naturally.

Speaker 7 The groups of friends, you know, like I want, I was gravitated towards friends, like friends that had families. And he didn't want that.

Speaker 7 So we were really kind of like, I guess now that I'm saying it out loud, yeah, those were the issues, you know, like I wanted a family life. I wanted to be with my kids and go on vacations with

Speaker 7 like-minded people, you know, like maybe parents, fun parents, not whatever. He just didn't think parents were fun with kids.

Speaker 3 I'm like, well, some of them are.

Speaker 7 You know, we're fun. Like, so why? Maybe there's other fun parents.

Speaker 3 I mean, if you like being around your kids, they can be fun. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you think, do you think Lenny's a good dad? I don't.

Speaker 3 Okay, moving on.

Speaker 3 All right. Is it difficult or do any of his new girlfriends or ex-fiancés, do they try being stepmoms or anything like that? Is that kind of weird?

Speaker 3 Or, you know, how do you, how do you handle that shit? Yeah.

Speaker 7 The last one tried, tried so hard and tried to rub it in my face.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I think that's disgusting. And then, of course, quickly the mask, you know, fell off.
You know, you can only put up that performance. You can only be so performative for so long.

Speaker 7 You know, I don't, I don't think she thought she was going to be

Speaker 7 the girlfriend or fiancé for that long, you know, and then the mask fell off because like, how, how can you play this game when you really don't give a shit about my kids or their well-being?

Speaker 7 Um, I was actually, you know, worried about the kids with her around. I was afraid.

Speaker 7 So, certain things happened, I won't even repeat it, but there were things that happened that were very concerning that the kids were telling me and her friends were telling me.

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 3 And is it safe to say, like,

Speaker 3 you guys completely 100% over, no going back. This is a relationship that will never, ever happen again that's is that safe to say oh romantically never okay ever just want to make sure

Speaker 7 you know i i really had hopes of us one day i'm like you know time will pass maybe one day we could be friends like maybe you know like my boyfriend's ex-wife uh and her her husband i love them We go on ski trips together with our kids.

Speaker 7 You know, I invite them over for Christmas, for Thanksgiving, all of that. It's so beautiful.

Speaker 7 And I really wish that I was hoping that one day, Lenny and I, and not the last girl, she was that would never happen, but even maybe the new one, maybe she has a new one.

Speaker 7 I was like, I don't know, maybe it could work out. But he's showing me that that might never happen.
And that's really sad because

Speaker 7 the hate for me is where is that coming from?

Speaker 7 Why is there so much hate for me when you did what you, what he did to me

Speaker 7 and to us publicly. You know, like it could have been handled so differently.
And then we wouldn't be in this predicament.

Speaker 7 Like, I wanted, wanted to even help him during times when the business maybe wasn't doing well, like things like that. I really want, I was like, how can I help? Would you come on the show?

Speaker 7 And then, you know, maybe we could come together and it would be great for everybody, for yourself, for business, for the kids. Like, let's, let's show that.

Speaker 7 And there were times where he was like, maybe. And then it was like, no.

Speaker 7 And I don't know if he was influenced by the then fiancé. I don't know.
But

Speaker 7 there were times I was trying to help. Like, I really wanted to help.
I really bit my tongue. I

Speaker 7 wanted to help. Yeah.

Speaker 3 You sound like one of the most understanding chill ex-wives ever.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, you're so nice.

Speaker 7 Well, thank you. I, I mean, I, I feel like I'm more chill than ever.

Speaker 7 Um, I, for sure, in the beginning of this, was not chill. I was the opposite of chill.

Speaker 3 You were hurt.

Speaker 7 Very, I mean, I was, I'm finally, I think, getting back to my original self, to my, like, to who I am. And I'm really, I did it.
There's a lot of work that came along with that.

Speaker 7 Therapy, Jodi, Alex, my, like, you know, my kids, like everything, just

Speaker 7 time.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 7 it took a long time to get here for sure.

Speaker 3 I have a question, kind of, kind of a diss, but

Speaker 3 I just noticed that you were 24 when you met Lenny and he was in his 40s. And then like all of his fiancés or ex-girlfriends now are also in their 20s as he's getting older.

Speaker 3 I'm like, do you think he was having a midlife crisis when he met you? Or like, is he just ever going to grow out of this?

Speaker 7 I know that he really, when he met me, I know he always wanted children. Like he really did want kids.
I wanted kids.

Speaker 7 And he was having really bad luck finding someone that he wanted to, you know, know, be with and have kids with. You know, 16 years is not that bad, I don't think.

Speaker 3 Like, even Nick and I are 18 years. So, yeah, you're in good company.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 So, you know, I didn't think that was that bad. And then

Speaker 7 he goes with somebody that's like dry. He said he would never do that.
And then he's with somebody, what is it, 30 years? And now it's, what is it? What is it now? The one now is like 25. 25.

Speaker 7 So it's just,

Speaker 7 yeah, yeah i think it's um i think it's maybe a midlife crisis and i also think that younger women are easier to manipulate and control and

Speaker 3 new and shiny things are more impressive to you know somebody who's 25 maybe still want to party or after party with him at 60 speaking of new and shiny things are his abs uh surgically enhanced

Speaker 7 i mean

Speaker 3 i don't know

Speaker 3 Period. Period.

Speaker 9 Period.

Speaker 7 I think, I think he's on this big health kick, you know, and he was on this health kick too when he met the when he well, when he started the new relationship, which I had no idea, because I was like, wow, he's really working out.

Speaker 7 And I was saying, I'm like, wow, guys, like Lenny is looking so good. I was so in love with him, you know?

Speaker 3 I really was.

Speaker 7 And no one understood why.

Speaker 7 None of my friends understood why I

Speaker 7 loved this man, but I loved him. I thought it was forever.
I never thought of divorce. I always thought we're going to be together until I'm going to be pushing him around in a wheelchair,

Speaker 7 changing his diapers one day. I don't know.

Speaker 7 Because I even like our age difference was enough. I was like, oh, where's he going to go? Yeah.

Speaker 3 I want to switch gears a little bit to the current season, and I want to go back to the red flags game. Why were all the women still picking you for the biggest red flag?

Speaker 3 And how do you feel about that?

Speaker 7 Okay, so I think that I walked into that one by being late that day, you know, and they needed, look, they needed somebody to put the red flags into, right? And then pile in on.

Speaker 7 But I think me being late, I was an easy target, first of all. They're like, oh, well, everyone's mad at her anyway.
So let's just all gang up on her.

Speaker 7 But the thing is, I literally just came back from saying goodbye to my father in Toronto. So I was really

Speaker 7 disturbed by all the red flags and the lack of support and the lack of empathy and the lack of even saying,

Speaker 3 hey,

Speaker 7 how are you doing? And you know, you just buried your dad or you, how's, how's it going? How do you feel? Because I really didn't get that from anybody, just Adriana, honestly, at that time.

Speaker 7 And I also think that narcissism is something that's dying, it's like a real thing that needs to be diagnosed by, oh yeah, and Gordy was there for me, but it needs to be diagnosed by a clinical therapist.

Speaker 7 And this word is like thrown around so loosely.

Speaker 7 And they all have these tendencies. And some of them, I think, might even have it.
You know, I'm not going to say who, but I think some of them might.

Speaker 7 Because they all show this, we all show like characteristics.

Speaker 7 All of us. Like we're all on Instagram.
We're all on TV.

Speaker 7 You know,

Speaker 7 there's a lot of

Speaker 7 red red flags that should have been put in their cups, but they didn't want to take accountability. So I was the target.
And I thought that was very unfair. And I thought it was terrible timing.

Speaker 7 And for me, if I knew my friend had just lost her dad, I would have given them a big hug.

Speaker 7 And instead of having a narcissist party for them, I would have had a, you know, celebration of life for their family.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Why do you feel like you and Larsa are struggling so much right now?

Speaker 7 Oof.

Speaker 7 Um,

Speaker 7 there's so much to dive into on that one, but um, it started before filming, I would say.

Speaker 3 Okay, is it safe to say it's still going on?

Speaker 7 Yeah, and then I guess you'll have to see in the reunion, like a lot is revealed about all of this in the reunion that we just filmed. Okay, um, and I'm pretty sure we're gonna get three

Speaker 7 parts of this reunion because hopefully, because it was a doozy. I mean,

Speaker 7 I I

Speaker 7 don't get shocked anymore by a lot of things, but

Speaker 7 I'm speechless on some of the things that are going to be revealed in this reunion. It's bad.
Okay.

Speaker 7 It's like

Speaker 7 some people, I don't know if some people can come back from it.

Speaker 3 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 7 But

Speaker 7 I am hopeful that Larsa and I can repair.

Speaker 7 our relationship because she was there for me. Look, she was there for me when I was going through that.

Speaker 3 Was she there for you with your dad dying?

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 3 That's unfortunate. Speaking of people being mad about the reunion, a lot of fans were seemed to be frustrated that Stephanie got a seat next to Andy in the infamous seating chart.

Speaker 3 Can you confirm, A, that Stephanie was in fact sitting next to Andy? And how did you feel about that?

Speaker 7 Yeah, I can confirm it because it was the seating chart was released by Bravo. Yeah.

Speaker 7 It was their on their website there were a lot of opinions about that one what did you think

Speaker 7 they weren't good they weren't um pro stephanie for me i didn't care like look if you're i was as happy to be second seat i'm first or second which i am usually first or second and

Speaker 7 i don't think i've ever been third That's very good.

Speaker 3 Let's go. There you go.
Exactly.

Speaker 7 I'm always first or second. So I was like, yeah, whatever.
Honestly, the second seat is a lot less pressure than the first seat.

Speaker 3 You and Stephanie kind of got into it for the narcissism party. What was your take on her joining the cast? And like, what's your relationship like?

Speaker 7 I have a good relationship with Stephanie. I think she's funny.
And I

Speaker 7 would catch her profile and I would say, huh, she'd make a good housewife, actually. I used to say that.
And now that she's here, she does add a lot, you know, like she has the lifestyle, the fashion.

Speaker 7 She's feisty. She's very opinionated.

Speaker 7 She was a little too opinionated for my liking that first day I met her, but we fixed that real quick. So

Speaker 7 I checked her also.

Speaker 3 Yes, you checked her.

Speaker 3 I checked her back.

Speaker 3 And then y'all called the truce.

Speaker 7 We've been fine.

Speaker 3 Did you check in with Larsa after her PRP allergic reaction?

Speaker 7 I didn't want to touch that one.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 7 I didn't want to go there. And

Speaker 7 she didn't follow me too. So I am following her.

Speaker 7 She unfollowed me me like a couple weeks ago, I guess.

Speaker 3 And Kiki's blocking Gertie. I mean, there's just some.

Speaker 7 I saw that.

Speaker 7 I don't know why.

Speaker 7 That one is very confusing to me.

Speaker 7 I just think that that's, I think that's a big, big mistake.

Speaker 7 I don't think that's going to go well.

Speaker 7 I don't think that was a good idea. I don't think

Speaker 7 I'll zip it down.

Speaker 3 Well, Lisa, before we let you go, as they say, when a door closes, sometimes people open a window.

Speaker 3 And on the heels of your divorce and all your heartbreak, you have created, it sounds like an app for people also going through divorce. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Speaker 7 Yeah, so Split Well, that has been in the works for the last two years.

Speaker 7 Jody has been very significant in that. Of course, he has a, you know, he's a

Speaker 7 tech AI background. He's a genius on these things.

Speaker 7 He is one of my investors,

Speaker 7 my advisors. It's an AI-powered divorce support app, which I think is really the first of its kind.
And I saw the need for this going through what I was going through.

Speaker 7 And then now AI at that time was just becoming very, very, very popular. And people were just starting to understand it.

Speaker 7 And like, as I think everyone knows now, you need to get on that train because that's where the world is headed. So I think we got on that at the right time.

Speaker 7 And I think the tools, AI is just amazing if it's used properly.

Speaker 7 And it's really, it saved me thousands of dollars when we were still like in beta testing for this app.

Speaker 7 You know, it's, it has everything.

Speaker 7 you can think of to help you through your divorce, recommended attorneys, a note taker app. I mean, a note taker within the app is one of the features.
It has a document.

Speaker 7 You can under all of your documents, upload them, it translates them, it has

Speaker 7 everything

Speaker 7 to help de-escalate the conflict, to reduce, reduce the cost, and to level the playing field, to, you know, to level the power.

Speaker 7 Because a lot of the times the men, you know, they're back, factually, they have the power. They have the advantage in the divorce because they usually have the money.

Speaker 7 They have more of the understanding of legal. Most women, like myself, had no idea.
I've never even gotten like so much as a meeting ticket.

Speaker 7 So having to call your lawyer for every little thing was

Speaker 7 very expensive. So this helps with all of that.
It's actually free right now. It's available on the App Store.

Speaker 7 We're launching Android. So Android users can use it very soon and check it out because we want your feedback.

Speaker 3 There you go.

Speaker 7 I think it's going to change the world. I hope so.

Speaker 3 Sounds like it will.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Lisa, thank you so much for your time. It was great chatting with you.
Hopefully, next time we'll be able to do it in person.

Speaker 3 So sorry that you had to go through all this, the divorce and everything, but thank you. You're very brave.
We're very lucky to have been able to chat with you.

Speaker 3 Please let my audience know where they can find you and follow you and all that fun stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Lisa Hawkstein, that's it everywhere. Lisa Hochstein, Lisa Hawkstein, and then Split Well app

Speaker 7 on Instagram.

Speaker 7 We're trying to get Splitwell, but someone

Speaker 7 stole it or something.

Speaker 7 But everywhere else, Splitwell.

Speaker 3 Split well.

Speaker 7 Like you want to split and you want to do it well.

Speaker 3 Love it.

Speaker 3 All right, Lisa. Good luck with everything going forward.
I'm glad you don't have to go any more influencer parties.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Well, we'll find them.

Speaker 7 Those ones are.

Speaker 3 Yeah, those are gross. Yiki.
I want to get paid.

Speaker 3 You're the best, Lisa. We appreciate you.

Speaker 3 A star. Bye.
All right. Bye-bye.
Bye. Bye.
All right. Well, thank you guys for listening.
Thank you to all our guests, Freddie, Brian, and Lisa Hochstein. We appreciate them all for joining us.

Speaker 3 We'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 3 Bye.