E957 – Going Deeper with Jeremiah Brown

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Speaker 2 What's going on, everybody? Welcome to a special episode of the Vile Files Going Deeper Edition. I am your host, Nick, and this is obviously an episode we are all excited to listen to.

Speaker 2 Jeremiah Brown is our guest. We are happy to be the first to interview him and lots to break down this episode.
Obviously, things happen fast at the villa.

Speaker 2 And so sadly, my wife and co-host, who's usually here with me for our going deeper episodes, is not with us.

Speaker 2 She's traveling today, but we wanted to make sure that we got this interview out to you as soon as possible. So Jeremiah is coming to you shortly.

Speaker 2 You are new to the Vaila Files and you are here to listen to Jeremiah. A little bit about our show.
We're here four days a week on Monday.

Speaker 2 If you're into relationship topics, we have our ASNIC episodes. A lot of people call in, share their relationship problems and stories.
We offer advice. People find it very helpful.
Check it out.

Speaker 2 It's binge worthy.

Speaker 2 Every Tuesday and Thursday, our reality recap episodes covering your favorite reality TV shows like Love Island, your favorite pop culture topics, and we interview a variety of guests from reality TV stars to celebrities, musicians, and more.

Speaker 2 And on Wednesdays, we have our going deeper episodes, which you're listening to right now, which is our long-form deep dive interviews with some of your favorite against celebrities, reality TV stars, and that is with my wife typically and me.

Speaker 2 So we had Jalen Brown yesterday on Reality Recap. Tomorrow we will have Hannah, but today is all about Jeremiah Brown.
So much to get into with him. And without further ado, Jeremiah Brown.

Speaker 2 There's that face. Can you hear me, Jeremiah?

Speaker 4 Yes, sir. Nice to meet you, Nick.

Speaker 2 How are you? Nice to meet you, man. Big fan.
I'm excited to talk with you. I appreciate you taking the time, buddy.

Speaker 4 Thanks so much for having me. me i definitely recognize your face now i see you okay well

Speaker 2 all right all right oh you ready to rock and roll let's do it jeremiah i appreciate you joining the va files welcome to the show buddy thanks so much for having me man i'm happy to be here uh how like i guess this is start like how are you feeling i mean like i i say this to every islander i talk to but i'm always just kind of blown away by this experience that you guys go through where you enter the villa, you know, obscure people.

Speaker 2 Some of you guys have followings more than others, but that being said, like you come out international stars. I know it's Love Island USA, but this is the show that's being watched around the world.

Speaker 2 You know, Megan the Stallion's a big fan. You got all these major celebrities like just enjoying the show, talking about you.
Like, where is your mental health right now?

Speaker 2 Is it all like, are you still coming off like the, the, the sadness of your unceremonious exit? Or are, you know, what is it? Like, yeah, what, is it just the world? Like, what's going on?

Speaker 2 I'm just like, I'm trying to get a sense of your headspace right now.

Speaker 4 Honestly, my headspace is, I'm definitely leaning towards more gratitude because I ain't gonna lie, when I came out of there that first night, I was pissed.

Speaker 4 Like, I was trying to keep it calm, cool, and collected, leaving, but

Speaker 4 I was pissed because I was like, damn, my comeback story, you know, got cut short.

Speaker 4 Like, they just seen how happy I was, you know, I was doing things, you know, right, right this time, and I still got the boot. So I was like, damn, bro, I was lucky mad.

Speaker 4 But then the more, you know, I'm talking to my family, I'm talking to people here, and they've been amazing.

Speaker 4 So now I'm just grateful and excited to see what's been going on because i don't know i've heard bits and pieces but i don't know like a lot was going on because i still don't have my phone but um yeah no i'm just right i know i'm just like gratitude that's all i can say well it's good that you're in that headspace yeah it's um i i have a lot of respect for all of you guys because i just don't think people fully appreciate um

Speaker 2 like it's just not normal what you guys go for right it's just like

Speaker 2 i mean first of all like getting famous on reality tv is a trip already but like you guys you're getting famous in real time you know most people you know they go on a show, they film it, they get done, they go back to the families.

Speaker 2 That's just like a whole whirlwind. They get some time to like get back to normal.
Then like a few months later, it airs. That's a whole different experience, but you kind of prep for it, right?

Speaker 2 You can, and then like you can be with your family while like you're, you know, you're online. And then here you just come out, you know, to the fucking noise.
And it's, it's, it's crazy, man.

Speaker 2 Well, before we get into all the Love Island stuff, I wanted to get to know you a little bit, you know, like I think people are dying to know who, who's Jeremiah Brown?

Speaker 2 You know, how did you end up on the show?

Speaker 2 Everyone's got an opinion, you know, like people come out of the woodwork and be like, I know that guy, I know this guy. So I just love to

Speaker 2 hear it from you. So, you know, let's start with the obvious low-hanging fruit questions.
Like, how did, how did you, Jeremiah, end up on Love Island?

Speaker 4 Um, how I ended up on Love Island. Basically, I had just moved to LA two years ago and they reached out two years ago, but I had a girlfriend at the time.
So I was like, you know, I can't do it.

Speaker 4 I'm in a relationship.

Speaker 4 But then they reached out after we had broken up. Well, she broke up with me.
I can say she broke up with me like a month after. And I was like, you know what?

Speaker 4 This would be just something just to get me back out there, you know, just to get me back out there.

Speaker 4 And I was like, it seemed like a cool opportunity. Like I've seen, you know, couples come out of it.
And I was like, okay, this seems like an actual legitimate thing to do.

Speaker 4 And yeah, I got a DM on Instagram. I was like, you know, let's do it.
And then, you know, I just kept progressing. through the things.

Speaker 4 And it just kind of kept me after getting broken up with, you know, you're kind of sad. So it just kept me like something to like hope for or hold on to, I guess.
And it kind of got me on my phone.

Speaker 4 Cause I was like, okay, let me go, you know, not date around, but you know, talk to girls to get myself back in the flow.

Speaker 2 So did they, did they, like, follow up with you because they noticed, like, oh, this guy was posting with this girl and now he's not posting?

Speaker 2 Or did you kind of hit them up, be like, hey, well, I'm single now?

Speaker 4 No, they reached back around. That's why I have so much respect for him because they double checked.
They're like, hey, are you single? Yeah, basically, in a respectful way.

Speaker 4 And then also, one of the producers, Ben, I work with this

Speaker 4 jewelry company, Jackson. And like, he gets the emails and he was like, who is this guy? So it's kind of like a two-in-one.
Like, he wanted to know who I was.

Speaker 4 And then they'd also already reached out to me.

Speaker 2 At that point, you were pretty like dead set on like, you know, like, hell yeah, like, let's do this if they ask me.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for the most part. I ain't gonna lie, it's pretty scary because I'm like, damn, I don't want to go in there and embarrass myself.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 I was just like, I am who I am. I feel like I've done a lot of work on myself.
So at the, if I go fuck up, then that's who I am, I guess. So I was just like, you know what, let's do it.

Speaker 4 It seems like an amazing opportunity. Once in a lifetime, like being one of five, it was just like the biggest blessing I ever could imagine.

Speaker 2 Are you a fan of the show? Like, did you watch it much? Or were you just like kind of familiar with? Like, what homework did you do going in?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, I was definitely familiar because my little sisters and actually all my sisters have watched the UK version and a little bit of USA because when I said DM they started freaking the hell out and I was like what what what's going on?

Speaker 4 Because I've like walked by them and they've been watching it like I hear the accents I'm like what the hell is that? So I've seen it a little bit and then I was definitely familiar with it.

Speaker 4 I watched three episodes of season six and I was like I think if I watch anymore, I'm going to psych myself out of it. So I just watched three episodes.
I was like, let's go see what that is.

Speaker 4 Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 It's always like a balance between like, it feels like AS did a lot of homework. Sorry, Ace.
I was a little bit of a dick.

Speaker 2 But yeah, it's a balance between like knowing what you like, knowing what you're getting into. I always tell people like in reality TV or like certainly I always tell fans, right?

Speaker 2 Because like a lot of fans will love to be like, well, they know what they signed up for. I'm like, when it comes to shows like this, you have no idea what this is like until you experience it.

Speaker 2 Like, it's just, if you know, you know. And if you don't, like, you can watch a million shows and like, it's just not the same being in it versus like being a fan of it.

Speaker 2 And like, it doesn't matter what your contract says. It doesn't matter what a producer might say to what you can expect.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, going there and being in that crazy environment is no one knows what it's like until they set foot in that universe.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's crazy.
You mentioned earlier that you've done a lot of work on yourself. And, you know, like, obviously, this is a show that it's fun, it's scandalous, it's messy.

Speaker 2 But it's a dating show, right?

Speaker 2 And like, everyone who watches this show, like, why we love these shows, why we will love reality TV is because like, it's like a fantasy way to like look at dating and like, in real-time culture, right?

Speaker 2 And I think, you know, obviously fans, and I hope you remember this when you get your phone back, it's just like, listen, fan is short for fanatic.

Speaker 2 So whether someone's there telling you how great you are or telling you you're a piece of shit, they don't know who you are. You know what I'm saying? They're just fans.
They don't know. Right.

Speaker 2 But we do as fans, because

Speaker 2 everyone who's watching is just projecting, right?

Speaker 2 They're just projecting like, you know, they're watching it because either you remind them of of someone they dated that screwed them over, that you remind them of themselves, you know, we'd like to watch you guys make fools of yourself or like, you know, be vulnerable because it's just easier to watch you do that than like look in the mirror and shit like that.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? But that all being said, like your fans, I think a lot of people who are fans of you, you know, here they, they saw that, how old are you again?

Speaker 4 25.

Speaker 2 25, right? So they saw this young man in his 25s, good looking guy, right? Like, you know, I'm assuming you've gotten this before.

Speaker 2 We're like, you know, you got a face car where it's just like he's probably a douchebag, you know, like he's

Speaker 2 too good looking not to be, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Like, and maybe, hell, like, you know, when I was, you know, your age and I was young, I think, you know, when you have opportunities, you have to cut your teeth and you have to like take your bruises and you have to like look in the mirror and reflect on like, you know, I think we all make mistakes dating and things like that, right?

Speaker 2 So I'd love to hear.

Speaker 2 a little bit about your dating story about like, you know, for me, like when I was, you know, in my early 20s i was i was like a serial serial monogamous right i was kind of like a love martyr like i had these like parents who like had a great relationship and they taught me a lot of good things about love but it was almost like i almost like took it a step too far.

Speaker 2 I was fighting too hard for relationships. I was like falling in love too quickly.

Speaker 2 I know people are throwing the word like love bomber around in 2025 and like it's not, it doesn't mean what it used to mean back in the day, but like I was falling fast, right?

Speaker 2 I was getting caught up in my emotions. But that being said, I'd love to learn about you in terms of like, what was Jeremiah Brown like when he first started dating like late teens, early 20s?

Speaker 2 Like, how did you carry yourself in relationships? And when you mentioned doing the work, what did that look like? And what kind of steps in your mind did you think you made?

Speaker 4 I was young. Okay.
I would say in college, like I never dated. Like from like, I didn't have a girlfriend until I was 22, 23.

Speaker 4 So I just like would find a girl I liked and just talk to her for like six months, talk to her for a year. Like I hated labels.

Speaker 4 I i hated like and i didn't hate but i just didn't want labels i wanted all that freedom that came with it i like anniversaries i didn't want to do any of that and then i finally got into my first relationship and then a month in um i cheated and i didn't know how i could do that because i proud i prided myself and oh i read books i'm this guy i'm the best so yeah like two two years ago a month into my relationship i cheated and i had to look at myself in the mirror because i'm like oh i like trumped myself up my head to be this great guy And I was like, okay, how come I didn't have the strength to say no to this girl?

Speaker 4 Like, how, what made me like not strong in that moment? So I was like, I got to figure this out. Cause not only did I hurt someone I loved, I hurt myself.

Speaker 4 So then I went to therapy and I'm still in therapy for like two years now, just to see like what was going on. So that's what the work looked like, you know, two years ago, started therapy.

Speaker 2 Now, when you, I mean, if you're comfortable talking about it, like when you say you cheated, like, did you like have sex with someone else? Like, how did you like, did you come clean? Like.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
How did that all, how did it all play out?

Speaker 4 So boom, it's my, one of my best friend's birthdays. And then I have had my two like friends, like my genuine friends of homegirls that came over.
And it wasn't pre-planned or nothing.

Speaker 4 And then we all got super, I don't want to blame on alcohol. And I don't want to talk about the alcohol part, but we all got super lit, right? Went out to the club, came back, and she falled in.

Speaker 4 She followed me into the bathroom. And I didn't have the strength to say no.
I could have said no. I didn't.
And then it happened. And then I walked out.

Speaker 4 I called my mom because I didn't have my car because there wasn't that layout. Say, mom, come get me.
I fucked up.

Speaker 4 And it was instant, instant regret. Got home, drove and told my girlfriend immediately, like three hours later, I told her what happened.

Speaker 4 And then, um, yeah, we broke up, got back together, and then they had to start therapy and just started working on myself because I was like, how could I have done that when I thought I was this great guy?

Speaker 2 It's obviously not cool what you did, but obviously, like, not everyone comes clean right away.

Speaker 2 And, and, and more than that, more people just feel like as long as they say they're sorry and then they talk about doing the work and they don't do the work.

Speaker 2 And like, credit to you for like, you know, jumping into therapy and, and,

Speaker 2 um, and, and, and trying to actually make, you know, take actions to like, you know, um, improve yourself. Like you're going to make a lot more mistakes in life.
You're only 25.

Speaker 2 Like all, all we can do is just, you know, try to get better, you know?

Speaker 2 Obviously, we'll talk about you a hood in a little bit on, but like, obviously she's caught a lot of heat for, you know, how she's carried herself too.

Speaker 2 But like, I've been Huda, you know what I'm saying? Like, I've, I, I've, maybe not like exactly how she's done it, but like, I, I, you know what I'm saying? Like, I've, yeah.

Speaker 2 I've been like fucked up from, from love and shit like that.

Speaker 2 What are you comfortable sharing in terms of like what you learned about yourself through therapy in terms of like just kind of understanding yourself?

Speaker 2 You know, nowadays, like we watch these shows, a lot of people want to like diagnose these characters, like attachment styles, things like that, or just maybe even understanding love languages, how we connect with our partners and things like that.

Speaker 2 Like, what did you learn about yourself in terms of like how you, you know, receive love, show love, things like that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think in the beginning, you know, being a model, it was a lot about attention and like. I've had freedom for 23, 22 years of my life, being able to do whatever I want.

Speaker 4 And I hadn't had to flex that muscle of saying no, not even to make an excuse. Just I didn't have to flex that muscle of saying no, especially being, you know, messed up.

Speaker 4 So it was the more of the fact like, yeah, just having to flex that muscle of saying no and not having been in a real relationship and like learning like, okay, like you have to make, not even sacrifices, but like if you're in a relationship, that means you're saying no to everything else.

Speaker 4 And that's what makes this yes, you know, so much better. And so at the beginning, it was just like.
not needing attention from other people because I love attention.

Speaker 4 Like I always like in high school, like whether even when I was ugly, I loved attention because I was a class clown. So it was just like needing attention, being ugly, needing attention, looking good.

Speaker 4 And then now like the latter part of the work was just like getting rid of like the guilt and the shame. Cause I carried that guilt for like over a year and a half of what I did.

Speaker 4 Cause it really messed me up. I was like, how could I do that? So when, so I carried that guilt for like a year and a half.

Speaker 4 And then that part was like, like the main thing was like not lighting myself on fire to keep other people warm. And that's what I did.
Like.

Speaker 4 the latter part of the relationship of just like trying to do too much to make up for what I did like two years ago.

Speaker 4 And so that was like the last part of the work was just like putting myself first and like self-trust and getting rid of self-doubt and like self-love and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's it's tough too, right? Cause like, you know, you enter a relationship, people want to know, like, have you ever cheated before?

Speaker 2 It can follow you like a scarlet letter. And it's just like, you want to own it, but at the same time, you want to be like, man, like, do I have to fuck, how long do I have to talk about this shit?

Speaker 2 Here you are talking about it now. It seems like you're processing it in a healthy way.
Like, how long ago did your last relationship break up when

Speaker 2 the conversation about going back on Love Island started?

Speaker 4 It was February.

Speaker 4 we she broke with me february 8th damn okay i shouldn't have maybe maybe i should have taken more time recognizing that february 8th and um they hit me up at the end of february okay all right yeah okay cool how long was that relationship uh like a year and a half august 2023 to february 2025 did you give her the heads up that you're gonna go on love island or no Nah, we had each other blocked at the time.

Speaker 4 We had like a really, like, we broke up and then we had a really like solid ending.

Speaker 4 And then one day it just got, yeah, then one day it kind of just blocked each other and everything so she hasn't yeah she had no idea and honestly i don't know what is going on with her either i hope she's good though okay yeah but you got you got nothing but love and respect i'm assuming oh for sure no she's amazing like i wish her the best she's gonna do great like she's amazing

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Speaker 2 When Love Island started getting into the show a little bit, like you and Huda started out hot and heavy. You know, obviously she seemed to drive a lot of that as well.

Speaker 2 But like you also, like, I mean, we're five minutes into the show and you were like swerving other girls. And I'm like, this is fucking Love Island.
What the fuck is this guy doing?

Speaker 2 Like, what, like, huh? And, you know, so like your critics out there, this guy falls fast. He's love bombing.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Again, like, I don't think people nowadays are using the word love bombing accurately. Like, it's, you know,

Speaker 2 it's not just because someone says, I love you in the first couple of weeks because they get really excited and infatuated with somebody.

Speaker 2 But that being said, again, like, I was a young man who like, you know, I really wanted to like emulate my parents' relationship. I wanted to be in a relationship and I was very picky.

Speaker 2 But when I liked a girl, I liked a girl, you know, and I would just, you know, does that, I feel like that kind of relates to maybe how you were a little bit or am I, am I off there?

Speaker 2 Like, were you falling fast the same way you kind of carry yourself in Love Island in other relationships?

Speaker 2 Or, you know, what was the reason for you kind of coming in there and being so focused on Huda?

Speaker 4 Honestly, like, that's not who I am at all because I've only like been in love like two or three times.

Speaker 4 not that I was in love with Huda or even told her I loved her but yeah no like I've never been that type like we're not my first girl my only girlfriend we started talking in January and we didn't date till August so it's like eight months you know but with Huda it was like

Speaker 4 I'll tell you why I did the cheat kiss I like I didn't they they could steal right and I was like I really me and Huda had this crazy electricity between us and I was like I kind of panicked I'm gonna keep it a whole stack I panicked and I was like what can I do to not get stolen okay I can give it get the cheat kiss.

Speaker 4 So, I wasn't even that already liked her that much. I just didn't want to get her stolen to keep it the stack.
I was like, you know what, I want to really explore this.

Speaker 4 And then, once we had two or three convos, um, I was like, Holy fuck, I really want to explore this.

Speaker 4 And then, not gonna lie, like, we got this was a mistake on like both our parts, we got really intimate really soon, and that kind of set us up for failure, like for the rest of what happened.

Speaker 2 But, yeah, and when you say intimate, like, you guys had sex, I'm not, I'm not here to kiss and tell.

Speaker 2 I respect that. All right, I gotta ask the questions.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, I get it, man.

Speaker 4 We got real intimate real soon and um it kind of just like skipped a bunch of steps and then that's what led to you know yeah okay and is huda like similar to women you've dated in the past whether it's looks or personality like what what made you vibe what what was that vibe that you that felt so strong where do you think that came from it was definitely like her gaze and the way she like when i i think my favorite part about women is the way she looks at me and her smile and like her smile and the way she looked at me was just so enticing And then we had a lot of conversations about like values in the beginning.

Speaker 4 I'm not going to be rude, but I kind of got like emotion fish. Like she, she said she's emotionally mature in her values.
So we lined up on a bunch of those. So I was like, okay, cool.

Speaker 4 She checks all like all my physical boxes and a lot of my spiritual, emotional. So why would I go? And that was where my head was at.
Not saying it was the right thing to do, but I don't regret it.

Speaker 4 But yeah, I was like, okay, she's so fucking dope. Like, I'm not going to ruin that and go talk to girls I'm not interested in.
That's where my head was at in the beginning.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.
That, that, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 You were kind of caught saying like early on, you know, like, oh, if we win, and then you kind of correct yourself, I i mean make it to the end so then obviously like you know i honestly i think it's kind of i mean half half most of your cast comes in with like a heavy following these days yeah that being yeah so like i don't know i kind of like i think it's almost like stupid when fans like you know like they came here to be famous it's like they are on a tv show that being said like yeah like do you feel like do you feel like in any way you were kind of gaming this the the game or playing the game or like or certainly any more than any of your peers uh no because for me as you can see in the episodes I can't fake shit.

Speaker 4 So, when I was really unhappy and I was really messed up, I couldn't just say, let's stay together. Because I could have like, I'll just say, like, the door recoupling.

Speaker 4 I know Iris isn't really my type, and I know she isn't really my type, but I still chose her. And that was like a roll of the dice.

Speaker 4 I could have just chose Hooda and made that relationship work, but I can't fake shit. So, no, I wasn't really gaming the system.
I didn't even look at it like that.

Speaker 4 Cause I feel like if I was, I would have some plan B's and some plan C's, but I just kind of dove into one girl.

Speaker 4 So, I personally don't see it like that, but I can get it like, oh, he's just so focused, he must just be here to win.

Speaker 2 win but as you can see when i was unhappy i you know what i'm saying i i hear you so in terms of like you and huda obviously like i mean you guys were i don't know if you know this but like people were tuning in to watch you too like love you or hate you guys like whatever they thought about your relationship you guys were must-see television oh

Speaker 2 um because it was honestly like so toxic so fast from your perspective like how much of how much of the show have you seen it all or you not seen any of it like i've seen a couple episodes i watched almost all of the one i left on and then i watched like i skimmed through most of them so i've seen some of them

Speaker 2 so i guess i mean obviously when it comes to shows like this even though there's a an episode almost every night there's a lot we don't get to see so one like from your perspective when did things start getting a little rocky and then two we'd love any context of like important information that you know what didn't we get to see when you know when it comes to yarn huda's relationship in terms of like

Speaker 2 why things kind of took a turn the way they did

Speaker 4 that's a great question honestly things were amazing up until the day i call it the pancake day we won't get into it right now but the pancake day and things were amazing until the pancake day so we had like a week i think maybe eight days of just like it was fire like yeah there were some minor things but like we had so much genuine like just such a crazy genuine connection off the rip And where things started going south was like, I told her who I was in a relationship.

Speaker 4 And then she kind of took that as who I need to be now. And I didn't nip that in the bud.
So I take responsibility. Like I didn't sit her down and be like, yo, like that's not who I am.

Speaker 4 Instead, I said, you know what? You're right. Let me be Superman already.
Cause it takes me like eight. It takes me a long time to get to like, you know, super boyfriend.

Speaker 4 And that's, I was like, oh, in a relationship, I do this. And she took that and was like, okay, that's who you are now.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, well, can you, can you clarify what do you mean by that in terms of like what you actually said to her in terms of like,

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. So I was just like, you know, I do the little things.

Speaker 4 i do the flower i just told her how i was in my last relationship like you know the flowers the the restaurant like anything like a what a boyfriend does like the cute things i said i do all that and then she was like okay bet and then like the day after she's like why are you doing any of that and i was like wait wait that's who i am in a relationship but i didn't say that i said oh you're right let me go try to do that so i think i tried to be superman instead of let her know like that's not who i am that takes me months to get there you know like that's not who i am and like three days into the villa yeah and that's where things the expectations just didn't get set right and then the intimacy got way too much.

Speaker 4 And I didn't say, like, yo, I'm not comfortable with this. I just tried to be Superman.
And that's what kind of, that's where it really got toxic.

Speaker 2 So, like, obviously, Love Island has this unique, its own lingo. It's obviously has its own set of rules, right? This whole like, are you closed off or you're not closed off?

Speaker 2 You're in a couple, but you're not closed off. People are like hooking up, but you're not closed off.

Speaker 2 Like, you're, then all of a sudden you're making out with your friends during the challenges and things like that. Two-part question.
Like,

Speaker 2 what conversations did the entire group, if any, have about like how this shit all works, you know, in terms of like expectations or like what were expectations of the group, but more specifically, you and Huda?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, how did you guys navigate? You know, because like Huda, it seemed like Huda was just like, this is my man.
You know, we are in a relationship. We were a boyfriend and girlfriend.

Speaker 2 We were absolutely going to get married.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 we are in love. And like, listen, I don't know.
Like, if you feel it, you feel it, right?

Speaker 2 Like, again, in the real world, I've, fuck, I mean, I've gotten in a relationship two days in and and stupidly talked about like

Speaker 2 planned our future like I've been that I've been that fucking guy right I'm not gonna fucking fall you know but like this is also in a world where you're you're making out and challenges and shit like that like did you and Huda ever like talk about like expectations of how you guys were gonna navigate especially once you guys were like so hot and heavy right away

Speaker 4 yeah I mean well within the group first like

Speaker 4 They've like for two weeks told me do this, do that, do this, do that. And I'm kind of like my own person.
Like I love to just do it. I can't fake nothing.

Speaker 4 So I can't like go pull her, pull a random girl for a chat because they tell me to. I was like, all right, for sure.
So for two weeks, I was kind of like battling the guys. Like, no, I'm good.

Speaker 4 Like, I want to explore this. Like, I'm good.
I'm good. I'm good.
And then at the same time, you know, I'm hearing like me and her get into it, but our expectations were just like

Speaker 4 the chat, the baseball challenge was the first challenge I think that really, like, she didn't like how I

Speaker 4 Like I had to kiss a girl or I got to kiss a Maya, but at the same time, I would do little things to try to make it not that bad. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 So there was a lot of pressure, like, okay, let me do the challenge this way so I don't get yelled at later. Let me do the challenge this way so I don't get in trouble.

Speaker 4 And then we got to a point where it's just like before the lumberjack challenge, we're like, you know what, we're just going to enjoy the challenges fully. And whatever happens, happens.

Speaker 4 Like we're going to, you know, we're still like, you know, not locked in, but we're still really close, but we have that freedom now to enjoy the challenges.

Speaker 2 Okay. And did you Like, how did you guys come to that decision to change up?

Speaker 4 It was kind of just like, you know, we're here to play the game. I forgot what happened.
Oh, she got really mad at the me kissing Gamaya at the goddamn baseball challenge.

Speaker 4 And I was just like, yeah, like, I'm not going to go through this the rest of the show. Like, we got to like,

Speaker 4 the challenges are for the challenges. I want to participate.
I don't want to be the guy. Like, I got to be myself.

Speaker 4 I can't just go into a challenge, just hide and, you know, do the cheat kissing the rest of the show. Like, I got to go be myself and show people like who I am.
I'm a fun guy.

Speaker 4 So it's like, it was just like that. It was like, we both got to participate and like be here to be here.

Speaker 2 That's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's, um, I mean, that's, I just, I remember that first challenge and like, I forgot who who like jumped up and I'm like he's not even I'm like like how like these people can operate this way like going it's like it's violent, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Like exactly. Holy cow.
So I guess like just

Speaker 2 yeah, just you and Huda like you know, I think there's a lot of you know if you're a Huda stan right like yeah, obviously she's caught a lot of heat right and there's a lot of people just like not understanding the way Huda is moving and things like that.

Speaker 2 And I'm sure people are anxious to like hear her perspective on things.

Speaker 2 But there's always like the the Huda stan, like they're of the perspective, like she's going to come out of the villa or you're going to come out of the villa and it's going to be like a bad edit situation, right?

Speaker 2 Like, oh, we didn't get to see certain things, like, you know,

Speaker 2 stuff like that.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like overall, while they can't show everything from what you've been able to see or from what you've heard or understand how things were shown, do you feel like ultimately the show captured the dynamic of your guys's relationship?

Speaker 4 Respectfully, from what I've seen, yes. Like I, like, I still have a lot.

Speaker 4 I still care for her very deeply, but there was a lot of instances where we were just talking and she would, you know, crash out.

Speaker 4 And I have nothing but respect for her still, but it's just like, yeah, it was pretty accurate. Cause there's some moments where I'm watching myself and I'm just like, bro, get up.

Speaker 4 Like, don't take that. But when you're on, like, no sleep, it's hard to like.

Speaker 4 know if you're in the right or the wrong so i feel like that's why it took so long in my conversations to see like okay am i in the right here am I in the wrong here?

Speaker 4 So that's why like you'll see me take a day or two to have extra conversations with her just to make sure I was, you know, I like to see things through to the end.

Speaker 4 So I wasn't just going to give up on the first fight.

Speaker 2 So, but it was pretty accurate.

Speaker 2 I, you know, watching you, again, I'm a fan. I'm, you know, obviously, so maybe I'm biased, but like, I, I saw someone who it makes sense that you're in therapy.

Speaker 2 You seem like you're an introspective person, right? Like. At times you reminded me of me when, you know, like you, you seem to like do your own thing and walk your own path.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, again,

Speaker 2 I've always dated women with big personalities. Like they're, you know, different, you know, there's a spectrum of big personalities, but like, you know, I want to be understanding, right?

Speaker 2 And as a man in 2025, right? We, we get a lot of notes, right?

Speaker 2 You know, ways where that men haven't behaved well in the past, you know, things like that, how we need to step up and how we should maybe listen more than speak.

Speaker 2 and things like that. So honestly, I saw someone like you who was this like, you know, people like your critics would say you're not necessarily good at communicating your feelings.

Speaker 2 I saw a person who was just like kind of not sure how to move from one moment to the next because it felt like you were getting a ton of notes.

Speaker 2 But like, if you were trying to understand your critics, what ways do you think you could maybe have better communicated with Huda, if any way at all?

Speaker 4 I totally see where they're coming from.

Speaker 4 And like the part that the main part is that when I felt things were moving too fast and the expectations were too high, instead of communicating that that was too much for me i did the opposite and said you know what i like you so much i'll try to be that person i'm not ready to be yet so that makes sense like i deadass didn't communicate my feelings so they're they're right in that regard um at the same time it is hard because when you know you're on no sleep it's like okay am i i don't want to like look like an asshole i don't want to you know do the wrong thing so it's like you do try to take be more patient with everybody else and put you know other people first because you don't like it's hard to have a clear mind like okay am i chipping is she chipping so that's why i feel like I was extra patient and kind of like not went above and beyond, but I was like, okay, let me really hear her out for hours and hours to make sure, you know, I'm like seeing who she is as a person.

Speaker 4 So, yeah, but no, I definitely didn't communicate. Um, this is way too fast for me.
Let's slow down because I liked her so much. I can own that.

Speaker 4 Like, I definite that was my main mistake: not like telling her, like, let's slow down.

Speaker 2 No, I appreciate that answer. Hoda revealing that she's a mom was obviously a main storyline and a big moment, not only for the show, but for you guys.
I guess first, like,

Speaker 2 do you wish she would have told you sooner?

Speaker 2 Or are you comfortable with like the time and how she, you know, opened up about her being a mom?

Speaker 4 Honestly, it's hard to say because I have no idea what that, what that is like in her shoes.

Speaker 4 And I don't remember how soon she told me, but honestly, I wasn't mad at her for not telling me yet because I feel like I get it.

Speaker 4 Like you don't want to, you don't want to come in here and say, it's two sides. Like you don't want to come in here and say you have a mom because everyone's going to think of you as that.

Speaker 4 At the the same time. Like, you win a chance to be yourself and not, but at the same time, you do have a kid.

Speaker 4 So, like, I see both sides of the coin, but I wasn't mad, I was just really caught off guard.

Speaker 4 Like, I wasn't like mad that she hit it for a couple of days, but I was like, I did get to know her, and at that point, we were good, so it was kind of just like, oh shit, okay, like, it wasn't like okay, no, normally, my wife is

Speaker 2 in these interviews, she's traveling right now. She had a lot, you know, we're new parents.
Oh, congrats!

Speaker 2 Thank you, you know, and as a guy, I was like, listen, Huda can like reveal that however she wants, you know, but as a mom,

Speaker 2 you know, my wife, you know, Natalie, she, you know, I wish she was here to articulate this, but like for, from her perspective, she just felt like it sounded kind of odd that when Huda talked about having a daughter, it was always in the lens of, she always like centered herself.

Speaker 2 She was like, I'm a mom, I'm a mom, I'm a mom. As if it was like, in a way, when you're saying, when she opened up to you, it was almost like, hey, I'm a mom.

Speaker 2 I don't want you to think of me any differently or certainly like not be, you know, any less attracted to me.

Speaker 2 Understanding, like, hey, as a mom, there's certain different responsibilities, you know, like, it's not the same as like dating a

Speaker 2 20-some-year-old, like, without a kid.

Speaker 2 But it almost seemed like she, the way she communicated it as if she expected like preferential treatment in a way, as opposed to like, you know, when Natalie says she like talks about our daughter, it's like, I have a, I have a daughter.

Speaker 2 It's always like, my daughter, like, you know, my daughter does this. My, it's, and then Huda was like, I'm a mom.
I'm a mom, mom, mom. It's like, did you see it that way?

Speaker 2 Or like after hearing, you know, again, like, I got no notes. This is, I'm, I'm communicating, you know, from my wife.
But like, does that make sense?

Speaker 2 And were there other people in the villa that maybe

Speaker 2 like didn't quite understanding how Huda was, you know, handling, communicating, being a mom?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I totally see what you mean now because I like, I watched the episode the other day and it was like, she's just like me. She likes what I like.
She's da-da-da-da.

Speaker 4 And it was like so, not to bash on her, but like, it was a a lot of self-centeredness now that you mentioned that which makes a lot of sense because my sister's had a baby and it's all about the baby like she'll say she's a mom but then it's all about the baby so yeah now that you say that it was definitely like a lot of i'm a mom the daughter's just like me i'm i do this for her i do that for her i do this so it's like yeah i kind of noticed that in conversation with her which is why i kind of like started to move because she didn't really ask me questions about myself that's a different topic but yeah i see what you're saying now that definitely that definitely is true you've got some criticism from people who wanted wanted you to like ask more questions about her her child did you ask more questions and we just didn't get to see it or do you feel like maybe you could have handled it a little bit better now that you reflect on on how that situation went down um honestly most of the time we did talk about her but i remember we talked a lot about her daughter at the date and then we talked a lot about her daughter on the pink couch conversation we had a pink couch conversation for like an hour before Ariana got there and we talked about her daughter for like 30 45 minutes like right after And then after that, she went south, so we didn't get to talk about it.

Speaker 4 But yeah, we had at least two or three conversations talking about her daughter.

Speaker 2 I thought it was like kind of, I mean, again, it's, you know, she, it's, it's her story, so I get that she had certain ways of wanting to handle it.

Speaker 2 But like the way it was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell Jeremiah, but then, and then I'm gonna kind of, and I'm gonna tell the women, and then I'm gonna like, then I'm not gonna tell the guys, but then, oh, you can tell, you can tell Nick.

Speaker 2 It's just like that,

Speaker 2 that seemed hard to keep up with. I, I, did you ever ask her like

Speaker 2 why she decided to go about it this way? Because it just seemed almost like I didn't, I didn't understand it.

Speaker 2 Like, I get, yeah, like, I didn't understand why she was so selective and secretive about just like, I mean, hey, you're a mom. Like, I, I get it.
Like, I get the reservations.

Speaker 2 Like, I understand that, like, I'm sure, you know, there's a lot of, you know, listen, a kid's, a single mom, a kid, not a lot of people are up for that responsibility and challenge.

Speaker 2 And I'm sure, like, that can feel like a lot of pressure. I totally understand that.

Speaker 4 But, like, at some point, just like own that you have this beautiful child and like just be a great be a great part of who you are but like what was that like for you um it was interesting at first because at first I'm just like I have no idea what that's like so like I kind of just removed my judgment and was like okay let's see how this goes so then she told the girls and then I found out and then I had to wait a couple of days to talk to Nick about it so yeah it was interesting but I guess I see the fact that she just didn't want to be known as the mom at first and wanted everyone to see her for her.

Speaker 4 So I totally get that side of things, but it was like curious for me navigating that because i couldn't say stuff to certain people about it but i mean that's that comes with it okay uh when america voted and recoupled you with iris what was that moment like because i at that point like what were you guys were there was there was cracks in your relationship from your perspective at that point yeah definitely none that i've really got of it was the same thing where i didn't vocalize like these expectations are way too high for me like we're not dating like i was basically in a relationship when we weren't weren't dating and um i didn't say anything about that because i liked her and i was like okay let's just keep going.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 yeah, so once America did that, at first I was pissed because I felt me and the huddad just had a really long talk at the fire pit about just how we're going to move forward.

Speaker 4 And then we got recoupled. And then

Speaker 4 I was like, as you can see, I'm just like, what the, I was so caught off guard because I was like, okay, once Jalen and Pepe went for their recoupling, okay, oh, I'm good.

Speaker 4 And then once America did that, I'm like, okay, there's definitely, they're seeing the shit I'm feeling, but I'm not vocalizing.

Speaker 4 But I don't want to be like, I don't want my ego to take over and be like, Huda's the problem.

Speaker 4 Yeah, America's like got my back. So I had to like slowly try to pull out what America saw and make sure I wasn't just being like, da, da, da, da, da, da.

Speaker 4 So yeah, once I seen that and I had the emotions I felt when it was Charlie or Huda leaving, I was like, okay, yeah, like there's something amiss here that I need to communicate more for sure.

Speaker 2 That night, you know, something I definitely have to give you shit for, and I, I didn't understand why you couldn't do that, but like, yeah, it, it seemed like a weak moment for you

Speaker 2 to not pull Huda and like check in with her. And you were just like, I just want to go to my pillow or my bed or whatever.
Yeah, what do you got to say about that?

Speaker 4 No, that was by far a weak moment. And I was very, I guess, disappointed with how I responded to things, but I just know being there, I kind of, I just shut down.

Speaker 4 And I don't really have an excuse, whether it's to sleep or whatever I was going through, but I just shut down. And I told her that and I apologize like two hours about it.

Speaker 4 But yeah, no, I definitely just shut down. It was definitely one of my weaker moments.
I wish I could have been there for her, but I wasn't. And I just have to own that.

Speaker 4 Like I I shut down and I wasn't.

Speaker 2 No, listen, I get it.

Speaker 2 I, again, I'm not trying to make excuses for you, but I just, I think one thing that people don't see on that show is the emotional and mental fatigue that all of you are dealing with 24-7.

Speaker 2 You got no support system. Like, yeah, you get avocado toast, but I'm sure you just do not have the comforts of home.
But, anyways, you said, did you apologize for two hours? Is that what you said?

Speaker 2 Or did I understand you correctly?

Speaker 4 Yeah, we had a conversation the next day, I think, in the speakeasy for like two to three hours about like just what

Speaker 4 just like i apologize she basically was like for the first two hours actually for all of it was like two or three hours honestly like maybe even four but it was just like me apologizing for not showing up how can we move forward and then her just saying she's hurt the whole time like there was no because i'm a conflict one i'm gonna apologize validate your feelings and then i want to conflict resolute or at least start working towards that.

Speaker 4 But really the conversation in the speakeas were just about

Speaker 4 just how she felt.

Speaker 2 And I yeah, to that point, I hear what you're saying. It was, I mean, one of my frustrations with Huda, like, I'm always trying to watch this, like, with this empathetic lens.

Speaker 2 And, like, you know, just, I don't know, like, again, I don't, I was on the bachelor long ago. So, like, I have empathy for all you guys.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, I know what it's like to, you know, watch something back and be like, you don't understand, you know, like, um, and shit like that.

Speaker 2 But watching Huda, it was just like, to your point, like, it's tough in a relationship where the person you're in conflict with, like, every response is about their feelings.

Speaker 2 Cause like we're all entitled to our feelings, I get it, but like I don't feel the same as you. So like, how can we better understand? And it was always just about her feelings.

Speaker 2 Like, I guess what I'm asking is like everything we saw in terms of her doing that, that felt very, that's how you felt in the villa. Like that wasn't, that wasn't editing or anything.

Speaker 2 Like, like them taking like two times to Huda talking about her feelings. Like, was that a theme with Huda where she would constantly center her feelings when you guys were dealing with conflict?

Speaker 4 Yeah, respectfully.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's hard because I want to like badmouth her, but respectfully, yes, it is a lot of, even I can say this because even the girls and Hannah and they all said this when they talked to her.

Speaker 4 It was like, yeah, respectfully, it's a lot of I, I, I in any conversation, it's a lot of I, I, I.

Speaker 2 So yeah, listen, I get it. You and I understand, I'm asking the questions.
I know you want to be a gentleman here, but like, I think, again, like, That's why we watch these shows.

Speaker 2 We appreciate, you know, like you're clearly not coming in here to like talk shit, you know and things like that but so I and I do appreciate you being upfront and and trying to to walk delicately with these answers uh that being said like if if Huda were here right like what do you think her response would be and I guess like what is your optimism that Huda's gonna come out of this

Speaker 2 and you know kind of like be like oh shit like I kind of see what other people are seeing now or I see what Jeremiah is seeing do you think she has that self-awareness and that ability to grow or do you think it's gonna be a challenge for her when she gets out?

Speaker 4 I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say yes.

Speaker 4 I think maybe when she watches it back, she'll realize like everything, almost everything she said was rooted in I, or I maybe did this, or I might have been toxic, or I might have done this.

Speaker 4 So, yeah, I think, I think she'll come out of here and see some things. I know that I'm seeing some things about myself, too.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, I think it's fair to say that she, I hope she can come out of here and see some things where it's like, oh, shit, okay, maybe that's initially when uh America matched you with Iris, it was like her, her narrative, at least what we saw, was her being like, yeah, you must be doing shit behind my back, Jeremiah, because America's trying to protect me.

Speaker 2 Now, granted, like in fairness to Huda, like Alandria, I know, I think, like, kind of like planted that seed. Obviously, the girls were just like having her back.

Speaker 2 And like, but she really took that bait, so to speak. And then is, again, is that, is that how it felt in the villa?

Speaker 2 Like, how much of that four-hour or two-hour fight conversation was her trying to like, you know, trying to figure out what you were doing wrong?

Speaker 4 No, yeah, she said that. She was like,

Speaker 4 you're not doing the things you're supposed to be doing. And America saw that.
And that's why they took you. And this, that, and the third.
And like, she was like, when I make,

Speaker 4 I say this, actually, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but she was like, when I say cute comments, you make faces and people see that. But her, the cute comments are jokes about kids or marriage.

Speaker 4 So she'll say a joke about kids or marriage. And I'll be like, what? Like, da, da, da, da.
And she'll take that as me not being, liking her as much as she likes me.

Speaker 4 So I'm like, I already lost at that point. But yeah, it was just things like that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, okay, yeah. She's like, she's talking about your wedding, and you're just not, you're not responding the way you want.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 So before we move on from Huda, like, I guess, like, what are your final thoughts on that relationship? Like, any regrets?

Speaker 2 I know, like, you have no regrets, but like, just being a little bit more reflective,

Speaker 2 how would you want people to like just feel about that relationship or just make, you know, whatever thing clear, you know, for people who have a lot of opinions about your guys' relationship?

Speaker 4 Okay. I would say one, it was very real and very genuine off the bat.
It got a little toxic due to me not nipping in the bud the crazy expectations that she had set for me early.

Speaker 4 And then the communication at the end was just not being perceived well. When I was trying to de-escalate and she'd kind of crash out.

Speaker 4 But at the end of the day, yeah, I just know that moving forward, like what I learned from it. is not being intimate too soon.

Speaker 4 And then when I feel something about this is moving way too fast, instead of just like dealing with it or trying to be Superman because I like the girl to be like, whoa, like I'm not comfortable with this.

Speaker 4 But at the end of the day, it was very real. And like, we still have a lot of, you know, love for each other.
But yeah, just our communication styles, I'll just say that, are a little different. Okay.

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Speaker 2 When you

Speaker 2 got dumped off the island, you guys actually, you know, you had a final conversation and she said that she truly thought that she was going to end up with you.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like if you had not got dumped, that she was going to still try to pursue you and end up with you?

Speaker 4 It's hard to say.

Speaker 4 Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered for me because the stuff she'd been saying about me, that's the thing that really like took me out of it was that night that we got recoupled, that she was calling me, you know, a bitch and a liar.

Speaker 4 And if I made her food, she'd shove it in my face. And I just don't do that.
Like, that's not how I treat people. Like, I don't do that to people.

Speaker 4 So I was like, once I heard that, it was like, no matter what she said, it was kind of over with, even though I tried a couple more times just to see what was going on.

Speaker 4 But I don't think she would have honestly. Actually, I'm capped because she did until, I don't know how much y'all saw, but literally every day up until I left, she would try to, you know,

Speaker 4 talk to me or kiss me or do something like that. So honestly, maybe, but I don't know what bomb shows I would have brought in for her, but I don't, I don't know, honestly.
Probably, maybe.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Oh, and

Speaker 2 I keep saying I want to move on from Huda, but

Speaker 2 that night. that you match up with Iris, where Huda like got out of her bed and sat in the hallway.
And the next morning, you were like, hey, I'm sorry, I couldn't go to you.

Speaker 2 What did you mean by that when you apologized to her that you like couldn't go there?

Speaker 2 I'm glad you didn't because it felt like she was like, you know, playing a running game and just like wanted you to go out there and chase her.

Speaker 2 But like, what did you mean that you couldn't go out there?

Speaker 4 Like, once we're in our beds, we're supposed to stay in our beds. I think I should say that.
Like, once we're in our beds for the night, you stay in your bed for the night.

Speaker 4 You don't go to other people's beds or, you know, essentially. Understood.

Speaker 2 That makes sense. That being said, which do you think she was hoping that you would

Speaker 2 not abide by those rules?

Speaker 4 Yeah, there there was a lot of times we almost got in trouble for like some rule breaking stuff but yeah i it's hard to say because i'm like i want to be there for her but then that was the same night i heard all those crazy things she said about me so i was just like i that's where i kind of draw the line like i'd already been so patient in my opinion for some things so but when you're calling me out my name to your friends like screaming i'm a bitch to your friends i'm just like i can't do that okay i can't i can't one last final huda question america got to see huda talk a lot of about like some of the women like a Amaya and then Iris when she came in.

Speaker 2 Were you guys aware of like how she was like talking shit about like the bombshells when they came in? Is that like a threat to you?

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, day one of Amaya, she definitely told me how much she did not like her because she made a comment about me or something. Because it's like half scary, half cute.

Speaker 4 I'm like, oh, you really care about me, but oh shit. Okay, that's kind of crazy that you're doing all that.
But yeah, she definitely let it be known day one and two that Amaya was there.

Speaker 4 She did not like Amaya. And then not too much about Iris, honestly.

Speaker 4 I can't remember if she said too much to me about Iris, but I just know like my first conversation with Iris, I kind of shut it down. Like I was like, oh, me and her are really good.

Speaker 4 But I don't remember her talking too much shit about Iris to me. I could be wrong.
I just don't remember it.

Speaker 2 Oh, and then like the SNM date where she was like, all right, lock it up when you were making out with a bombshell. Like, did you see that in like her like fucking around?

Speaker 2 Or like, did that feel like she was being hypocritical? Yeah.

Speaker 4 No, that day. See, these are the cracks where like I didn't fully recognize because I'm so worried about some other shit.

Speaker 4 But like, just things like that, where it's like, not even a double standard, but just like scary shit. Like her, like, I just watched the episode yesterday, like, her, like, doing that crazy shit.

Speaker 4 It's like, that would have been cute if we were dating or like months into relationship or like closed up. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 But, like, her like going crazy with the two guys and then me, like, me and Iris is barely kissing. And she's like, all right.
She said, like, all right, bitch, hurry it up or something.

Speaker 4 Like that, to me, I'm just watching it back. And I'm just like, okay, yeah, that was, this is not healthy.
This is not healthy at all.

Speaker 2 Yeah. All right.
Let's move on. Let's talk about the boys for a second.
America has a lot of opinions. Before we get into the boys, I want to play you something that I thought was like,

Speaker 2 it's gone viral.

Speaker 2 This is essentially how America feels about the men who voted you off.

Speaker 2 I want you to watch this clip and then we'll, and then we'll go. I want to hear your thoughts.
Okay. Hit it, Leah.
Snitches and rats are not the same thing.

Speaker 2 Let me break it down and make sure y'all see what I mean.

Speaker 2 A snitch is someone minding other folks' business to find information they can sell for a price or trade for some other form of compensation.

Speaker 2 A rat

Speaker 2 is a traitor

Speaker 2 or physical participator. He doesn't sell secrets for power or cash.
He betrays the trust of his team,

Speaker 2 hoping to save his own cowardly ass.

Speaker 2 The difference is

Speaker 2 at least a snitch is human, but a rat is a fucking rat.

Speaker 2 God,

Speaker 4 are those the real numbers?

Speaker 2 Yeah, man. It's uh, it's uh, it's all, yeah, I don't know, it's got like millions of views.
It only got eight, you know, 800,000 likes. But you and Nick were boys.

Speaker 2 When he left, he called you like his best friend. You were the one, he was the one guy that like Huda green light you, like, you know, telling Huda was a mom.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, basically to break it down for you, America feels like, you know, Ace was like the ringleader of like that clicky group of Nick and Taylor. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Nick certainly like had his moments, but like, you know, clearly, again, you're a great looking guy. You, you clearly like, you, you, you seem to be independent.
Like, you're not a follower.

Speaker 2 You, it seemed like you made friends with the guys, but like, you weren't like trying to be a click. And it really felt like we were watching a click of men.

Speaker 2 And listen, like, you, you got to, like, you hooked up with Huda, whatever. Maybe it did, you didn't like make the right moves, but whatever.

Speaker 2 And then like Andrena comes in, the bombshell, like obviously a gorgeous woman, like a lot of guys were attracted to her. Like she liked you.

Speaker 2 And it honestly felt like when they got a chance to like get the best competition off the island, because it's like you got first dibs and they were like getting leftovers.

Speaker 2 They, they took that chance, friend or not, and they voted your ass out. Like, do you see it any differently than America?

Speaker 4 No, not at all.

Speaker 4 And it, it was when I, that when that happened i got voted off i wanted to just like you know say my piece but i was just like i just wasn't the time to do that and i'm not one to just talk about so-and-so it was just like yeah it was honestly just more like not heartbreaking but just like betrayal like y'all told me for two weeks to go and hoop i start hooping you know i'm saying i really take i do the right things with andreena i'm like we're doing friendship best friends first

Speaker 4 you know i'm doing our values are finally lining up and then they still kick me off i was like yeah they're just not them's not my peoples is all i can say Them's not my peoples for real.

Speaker 2 So like, I guess with Nick, right? Like,

Speaker 2 how quickly did you realize he wasn't the best friend that you thought he was early on? Like, how obvious was it to you that this was a very clicky group of men?

Speaker 4 Oh, shit. Probably the first week, honestly.

Speaker 4 But the thing is, at the same time, we had so many good moments. Like, they were so funny.

Speaker 4 So it'd be times where I'm like, the click would kind of disband for a little bit and then some shit would go down. It would get right back to it.
And I'm like, fuck, I thought we were over this.

Speaker 4 And me and Nick had so many good chats about like our friendship and stuff outside of this.

Speaker 4 But at the end of the day, it was kind of just like Nick and Ace, or sorry, Nick and Taylor just really, you know, respectfully followed whatever Ace said.

Speaker 4 And yeah, that's the thing about, sorry, not off topic, but like Taylor, like Taylor never actually said anything to me about a lot of nothing, but then watching it back, he had a lot to say, but to about me, but not to me.

Speaker 4 So that would also caught me off guard because I didn't think he was like that. But yeah, long story short, I think I just wanted Nick to be, it was more one-sided than I thought.

Speaker 4 Like, I was like, that's my guy. But then his actions were showing otherwise.
And I kind of was just like, at the end of the day, I was like, okay, bro.

Speaker 2 How did you feel about Nick the next day after you left the island? Like, said something like, well, like, there's a lot of opportunity now. You know, I know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was some, some reference to that. Like, how does that make you feel?

Speaker 4 I mean, I knew what it was. Like, he, like, he pulled me aside, tried to talk to me, and I was just being respectful.
Cause the last, because I knew if I snapped, I wouldn't have snapped.

Speaker 4 But like, if I knew if I lost my cool, then I would have been boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 4 You know, like, I mean, at the end of the day, like, I'm not going to lie, like, the first two days I was gone, I was pretty pissed because I like, I thought those were my guys.

Speaker 4 But then, like, the smart thing to do was vote me off because they seen I was hooping. Like, you know, the bombshell came in, Andreena, she's dropped dead gorgeous and hilarious.

Speaker 4 And we had a strong connection already. So they seen that and, you know, decided to kick me out.
So at the end of the day, it is a game show or a show.

Speaker 4 So they made the strategic move, but it still felt like betrayal.

Speaker 2 Do you think it was like Nick and Ace that voted you off?

Speaker 4 Or do you think ace was really like the ringleader and really driving that conversation oh man it's so hard to say because ace has always been like the ringleader driving the conversation they kind of just like yeah yeah he's right so honestly i don't know it was probably all three of them i just know i knew there was a chance i was gonna leave but i didn't think it would be me above ostina pepe i thought it was bush league that taylor delivered the news i thought at least ace would be man enough yeah yeah exactly that they couldn't even look And another thing that pissed me off was that when Jalen and Charlie left, like they all came in the room and explained to them why they voted.

Speaker 4 But for me, all I got was a, it wasn't personal and I love you. Like I didn't get a single like man-to-man word of why they voted it.

Speaker 2 There's some fan theories out there that because early on that actually Ace had the hots for Huda. And in the spirit of like the opposite of love is is uh is not hate.

Speaker 2 Uh, even though he seemed to be very opinionated about Huda, I guess there's some like instagram likes he's been liking her page i don't know if that's people running his account or from you know in the past i don't know but like what do you have to say about the fans who think that like ace kind of secretly has a thing for huda i mean he did he he did kiss her during the blindfold challenge so i can see that and um yeah he just likes mess which i get um but honestly there could be truth to it honestly because he did kiss her to for the blindfold thing And I honestly think ever since I curved Yelissa with the cheek kiss and he got stole that he ain't like me me because he got stolen from um shelly and he likes shelly so maybe that's where it started yeah i mean clearly like he you know if you're not going to follow ace he he's he's not he's not comfortable with you uh doing your own thing and like yeah it was as clear that you did you did not need their his approval the way that uh taylor and nick seemed to need it and that clearly rubbed him the wrong way.

Speaker 2 Do you think he will see that and reflect and own up to that when he gets out of the villa? Or do you think he'll make some kind of excuse?

Speaker 4 Honestly, I think he'll just say that I wasn't playing the game right or I wasn't doing Love Island right and that's why he made the decisions he made. I think that's probably what he'll say.

Speaker 2 Well, America knows it was his insecurity. So

Speaker 2 there's a lot of

Speaker 2 memes of Ace's feet not touching the ground floating around right now because they're mad that he sent you home. So if that makes you feel, I mean, I don't, you don't seem like a petty guy.

Speaker 2 We can be petty for you. Yeah, good.
Yeah. America is really, they're being like called like the mean girls, you know, Regina George, shit like that.

Speaker 4 Ryan, no, I get it. I definitely get get the mean girls reference.
That's, that's definitely what it felt like at the end, for sure.

Speaker 2 Well, Ace, I really appreciate your time, man. Is there anything like I didn't get to ask you? I know you got to go, but like, is there any like final thought? Oh, I called you Ace.
Fuck, man.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have Ace on my hat. Fuck.
Jeremiah, I can't thank you enough for your time, man. Sorry.
I just like, I got, I got Ace's, like, little feet just, like, in my mind.

Speaker 2 I've seen too many memes of that guy. Oh, great.
Final thoughts, man. Hot, you know, just what can you leave us with?

Speaker 2 What, if I didn't get to ask you anything that you want to make sure you, you get the word out, like now's the time.

Speaker 4 Yeah, well, I'll say first and foremost, thank you so much for having me. This is like my first like doing anything like this.

Speaker 4 And so like, thank you for just like, even nothing but welcoming and like, it feels generally feel like a conversation with the bro. So I want to thank you for that.

Speaker 4 Two, the Love Island team, crew, cast, like everybody was just phenomenal to work with. Like it was truly one of the most like.

Speaker 4 just like not life-changing, but just like once in a lifetime opportunities ever. So I just want to thank them for everything.

Speaker 4 And I wish nobody in the villa still the best, even though you did me dirty. I wish you the best.
And yeah, I'm excited to see what's next.

Speaker 2 All right, man. Well, I wish you nothing but the best.
You seem like a really stand-up guy who's like willing to look in the mirror and always make changes. I really appreciate your time.

Speaker 2 Do you think one like final question? Do you think there's any couple right now that is currently existing that you has a chance of ending up together and winning Wild Island?

Speaker 4 Oh, man.

Speaker 4 Who's honestly? I think that it was going to be Peppa and Anna, but I guess right now, I think Taylor and Alandria have a good shot. At the end of the day, I think they have a good shot.
Okay.

Speaker 2 All right. Yeah.
All right, Jeremiah. I appreciate you.
Oh, plug, plug your socials so people can like follow you if they're not following you already.

Speaker 4 Like, oh, I'm going to do this now. This is crazy, man.
I'm plugging myself. My Instagram and TikTok are at find Jeremiah.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, follow Jeremiah.
Thanks again, man. I appreciate you and wishing you nothing but the best, brother.

Speaker 4 Likewise. Likewise.
Thank you, Dick.