E908 Going Deeper – Temptation Island Reunion

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Speaker 4 If you've got a thirst to put the world on notice, Sprite's for you.

Speaker 4 Whether you're shooting a masterpiece on your phone, filling notebooks with sketches, or turning your bedroom into the booth, keep going. Obey your thirst.

Speaker 1 Sprite.

Speaker 1 Y'all want it all be on the same one? No.

Speaker 1 Nuts.

Speaker 1 Meditating.

Speaker 6 You guys look great. Thank you.

Speaker 6 Don't make eye contact.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 6 All right. Watch your step, ladies.

Speaker 1 We'll take that paper.

Speaker 6 Is everyone ready?

Speaker 1 Let's just take a big

Speaker 1 deep breath.

Speaker 6 You guys are in good hands.

Speaker 1 Nice face.

Speaker 7 Is this the first time you've done like a mini reunion?

Speaker 6 We did Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

Speaker 8 Very similar.

Speaker 1 That was a pressure.

Speaker 1 Very similar.

Speaker 6 See if you guys can be messier than them.

Speaker 6 I have faith in you.

Speaker 1 Go buddy. You ready?

Speaker 1 You're crazy.

Speaker 6 All right. Well, let's get started.
Everyone, welcome to the Vile Files, or should we call it the unofficial reunion of Temptation Island.

Speaker 1 Welcome.

Speaker 6 Let's just a round of applause for showing up. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 6 Who's more nervous than the final bonfire?

Speaker 1 Probably me.

Speaker 9 You are?

Speaker 3 I did not give two thoughts to my final bonfire. I was like done and ready.

Speaker 6 What makes this more nervous?

Speaker 3 Grant's performance on social media for the last several weeks. Okay.

Speaker 6 Grant, are you nervous?

Speaker 1 I'm ready. You're ready.
Okay.

Speaker 6 You're looking nice.

Speaker 1 Thanks, brother. Thank you.

Speaker 8 Tyler? I'm a little nervous. Definitely not more nervous than the final bonfire because we had had to sit in a van for two hours alone beforehand, which was torture.

Speaker 1 Sat with your thoughts. Yeah, a little too long.

Speaker 8 How about you, Taylor?

Speaker 5 I really don't know. I'm just kind of here, but I'm not more nervous.

Speaker 5 I felt like I stood on business and I'm ready to do it again.

Speaker 1 Love the brown hair. Thank you.
Thanks, twin.

Speaker 1 Thanks, great.

Speaker 6 Congratulations to our happy couple.

Speaker 1 Thank you. We've made them sit across from each other, but they are ideal together.

Speaker 6 Yeah, we made them sit across from each other.

Speaker 6 We thought they they did they took one for the team they did a kindness to the rest of the group we figured guys they could stare at each other i know i miss them already

Speaker 1 can we see the rings

Speaker 10 yeah wow is this the one you picked out i did yeah it's actually different on the show like it shows him ring shopping yeah he hated all the rings that the producers offered um so he like told them to get an emerald cut gold And they made it in LA, overnight at Hawaii and they proposed the next day.

Speaker 10 I respect that.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 10 he was not going to do it without something I didn't like.

Speaker 7 He gave me like four to five options in Hawaii at the jeweler and they were all horrendous.

Speaker 1 He said, I know exactly what I want.

Speaker 7 Here are the specifications. And they overnighted it the next day.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Came together beautifully.

Speaker 1 You're very stylish. Thank you.

Speaker 2 You have a great sense of style.

Speaker 6 I was really excited looking forward to what hairstyle you would do.

Speaker 6 I feel like you have a very versatile

Speaker 6 some options to go with.

Speaker 8 Every scene it's different.

Speaker 1 Every single one.

Speaker 6 I was like, oh, we're slicked back today.

Speaker 6 It will change. Wonderful.
Unfortunately, Brean and Shantae couldn't join us. They certainly tried.
They had some work obligations.

Speaker 6 I think specifically Brean did, but they wanted to be a part of this. Sadly, they couldn't make it.
It certainly wasn't anything about them avoiding this atmosphere.

Speaker 6 And if we get the opportunity to bring them on, we will look to do that. But that is why they are not with us today.

Speaker 6 You know, everyone, including Nelliett and ourselves, are very fascinated with you guys and why you decided even to embark on this journey and on this show in the first place. Obviously,

Speaker 6 Ashley and Grant and Tyler and Taylor are no longer together, but we have Alexa and Lena who are still together, not only together, but engaged.

Speaker 6 So I think it's very fascinating to kind of see just the spectrum of what this show and this experience can do for couples.

Speaker 6 And I'm always very fascinated with it because, you know, for me, we talk a lot about relationships on the show, my wife Nally and I, it really comes down down to what couples want to stay together.

Speaker 6 You know, what couples want to put in the work, what couples are actually compatible.

Speaker 6 I think what's fascinating about this group of people, I think it was a really interesting insight to a lot of very common themes when it comes to various relationships, why they work, why they don't work.

Speaker 6 And I'm excited to explore that today with all of you guys. So I am curious for our happy couple.
What made you want to do this in the first place?

Speaker 6 Because I was a little bit surprised as the season went on that you even started thinking of an engagement knowing your girlfriend at the time was at a different house with a bunch of men.

Speaker 6 Certainly you got to check in at the bonfires, but was that something you were even thinking of going into Temptation Island?

Speaker 6 Hey, if we pass this test, I want to do this or did that happen organically?

Speaker 7 Yeah, I think I can start with this one. Like you were saying, these common themes that a lot of relationships have to struggle with or overcome.

Speaker 7 Even yesterday, I I talked to someone in my building who, his wife is a travel nurse, and moving, having to change your career, go in different directions, it always makes some relationship strife.

Speaker 7 And we were at our third move when we got the call from the casting company. And at that point, we had a huge fight the week before we got the recruiting call.

Speaker 7 And it, it honestly seemed like a godsend. It was, you know, we were ready to either make that next big step.

Speaker 7 having this test was exactly what we needed. And going on, we knew exactly what we wanted to get out of it and

Speaker 10 we did it what was the fight about i think it was like a career path fight again because we had just moved and you were getting like frustrated the fact that you've moved so many times with me and you felt like your life was on hold because it was just projecting my or like propelling mine so that's kind of what it was about but i feel like back to like your question

Speaker 10 We had talked about engagement before the show. So it wasn't like that was the first time we had talked about it.

Speaker 10 Obviously, like three and a half years in, we're 28 years old, like, what's the next step? So it was definitely like on our minds, but there was, I was Leno's first real relationship.

Speaker 10 He's had like little flings here and there, but it was kind of like, okay, is she really my first and only love? Like, is there more out there?

Speaker 10 And we kind of figured, well, if you're going to cheat in like 10 years, we have, like when we're married and kids, that's worse. So like, try to get it out now in a way.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 Because I would rather him get it out now, know that it's me in the end and not cheat on me in like 10 years when you have kids or something obviously you guys dealt with some relationship turmoil before you went into the show with believe your infidelity not to it's a pointed out uh but obviously you were open in sharing about that i am curious from both of your point of views for you lino Was this in a way a test for Alexa to see, you know, could she go to a house with a bunch of eligible tempters and things like that and prove her faithfulness?

Speaker 6 And then follow-up question for you, Alexa. Was there a part of you that was prepared for Leno to take advantage of his experience as almost a

Speaker 6 hall pass for, you know, almost to even the playing field?

Speaker 6 Or in a way, was that in the back of your mind wondering, okay, well, if he, you know, if he does anything, even Steven, was there any kind of thought process around that?

Speaker 7 For myself, I was never afraid that she would cheat physically. More so emotionally.
It was the only thing that was making me somewhat nervous. But I do truly think the test was for me.

Speaker 7 Just going into it, both of our families have had multiple marriages. Everyone has an infidelity, had not stayed together.
So I wanted to make sure.

Speaker 7 that five, 10 years down the road, that I wouldn't make these mistakes. And it felt like the perfect stress test.

Speaker 6 And how did you guys work through the initial infidelity? Because obviously there's always a lot of opinions about it. It can be a very detrimental thing that happens to a relationship.

Speaker 6 There are couples who do get through it.

Speaker 6 That being said, there's a big difference between something happening, working through, and then potentially dealing with, you know, multiple occurrences and a bunch of, you know, false apologies and things like that, where you're constantly forgiving for the same thing.

Speaker 6 You're just like, oh my God, you're keep,

Speaker 6 you're still doing it.

Speaker 1 Can I take this one? Oh, okay. Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 10 So the beginning of our relationship, lino and i weren't like i kind of messed up where i told like one guy i was exclusive lino i told another guy i was exclusive we weren't like boyfriend girlfriend per se but yes that was a huge mistake of mine to tell two people that i was exclusive that was wrong and i own that but i think how we got through it is honestly time and me choosing lino every single day for three and a half years like sure in the beginning it was really rough because at first he felt like the second choice because I was between two people.

Speaker 10 But as time moved on, honestly, like it sounds cheesy, but time kind of heals everything because I was choosing him every single day. That guy is so far removed from my life.

Speaker 10 And that whole past is so far removed that every single day, like when I'm choosing Leno and we're being together and just present with each other, I just feel like that helped us overcome this whole second choice situation.

Speaker 1 You agree? Yeah.

Speaker 7 And I believe in second chances too.

Speaker 7 I had spoke to my parents about it, people really close to me, and she had just came out of a young, young marriage and not getting much attention in her college days and early days coming out of that and being set free into the world i understood what i did in college and how i acted so i practiced grace in that setting did the two of you do couples therapy or did you just kind of work together the just the two of you you just alexa did some therapy i did some individual therapy yeah um nothing couples related but i did individual therapy for like the first like six months of our relationship every wednesday and then i would call leno like and tell him all about it yeah So it was really good for me just to like heal from, it was more so for me, me to heal from the divorce and all the guilt that I had because it kind of happens at such a young age.

Speaker 10 And then I just moved on. Like I never really addressed the feelings that I was having with it.
And then it kind of brought it into our relationship.

Speaker 10 Like all that guilt, everything that you saw, that was 100% real. And so I went to individual therapy for a while.
I felt like I almost graduated.

Speaker 10 And yeah, and we've never gone together, but it's definitely something we're open to. Our communication now has never been better, honestly, since the show.
Really made us stronger.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we have

Speaker 7 one serious fight since coming back from the island. So positive.

Speaker 1 It's been really great, honestly. That's a lot.

Speaker 6 No, like, what about that?

Speaker 6 Taylor and Tyler, how did you guys find out about the opportunity? And where was your relationship at the time in which you started?

Speaker 6 And ultimately, what made you guys want to come on to Temptation Island and test a relationship the way you did.

Speaker 1 Great question. You want to start?

Speaker 9 Go ahead.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 8 Well, I mean, we met at a very strange time in my life.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Literally going through divorce and separation after

Speaker 8 about five or six years

Speaker 8 of that relationship.

Speaker 8 And at first, we were just close friends. We had mutual friends.
And then after four months of hanging out, we kind of got, you know, physically intimate.

Speaker 6 And then were you separated at the time?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I was still technically married at the time. And that was one of her

Speaker 8 stipulations. Yeah, stipulations was obviously like, you know, the divorce has to be finalized.
And there's a lot more issues than that that even I was going through, like a lot of baggage from that.

Speaker 1 And we kind of worked through that.

Speaker 6 You mentioned at the final bonfire that, you know, even in that relationship,

Speaker 6 you felt maybe underappreciated, unseen.

Speaker 6 Can you share a little insight into what the biggest struggle with that relationship was and why that ultimately led to a separation?

Speaker 8 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 8 it was a beautiful marriage. Like, I wouldn't take it back for anything.
Like, the first five years was just amazing. Like,

Speaker 8 we kind of had it made, just

Speaker 8 owned a beautiful home, had a great, fantastic job, you know, and it was kind of like everything you would want as a young 20-year-old and kind of felt like I had it made.

Speaker 8 But she came to me one day and asked me if she could like talk to this girl that she met at a restaurant. And I was like, why are you asking me if you can talk to a girl, you know?

Speaker 8 And it was

Speaker 8 over the course of two months from that first conversation where she asked me that, it just progressed and she ended up kind of getting into an intimate relationship with another woman. And,

Speaker 8 you know,

Speaker 8 her excuse was like, yeah, we got married very young. And I was,

Speaker 8 you know, I grew up Christian. So I was like, I wanted to do it right, you know, to get married as soon as possible.
And she felt like she couldn't really like sow her wild oats and everything.

Speaker 8 And so, you know, and I did give her a hall pass on that relationship. I was like, we have the best marriage.

Speaker 8 In my opinion, you know, if you need to figure something out, this is a safe place to do that, you know, but it was a little little bit more than I could actually handle.

Speaker 8 And so it only took about two months,

Speaker 8 a lot of fights. And I felt like I was kind of gaslighting her because I gave her the hall pass, but then I was like just emotionally a wreck, you know, and starting to get very angry.

Speaker 8 And I normally don't like get angry like that.

Speaker 6 So it sounds like maybe you gave her a physical hall pass, but not an emotional one.

Speaker 8 Oh, it wasn't supposed to be emotional.

Speaker 8 It was only physical, you know, and, you know, and her ex I don't know if it was an excuse, but she didn't feel like she could be, you know, physical without an emotional attachment. Okay.

Speaker 1 Makes sense.

Speaker 8 But yeah, long story short, I, you know, obviously I felt betrayed, you know, through that. You know, we, we sought some counseling and the counselor was like, well, it sounds like,

Speaker 8 you know, she needs, he said, it sounds like she needs a lot of time to figure out herself. you know, because she's 24, 25, trying to explore that.

Speaker 8 And then the counselor looked at me and said, and it sounds like you're out of time. Like, he saw the look on my face.

Speaker 8 And so

Speaker 8 I packed up all my stuff, moved out, moved to downtown Nashville. And, you know, I did have a thought that, you know, she would kind of leave her.

Speaker 8 And, you know, hopefully we would like kind of figure it out. But they're still together, you know, you know, so like, you know, happy for her, I guess.

Speaker 6 But is that like almost a silver lining in a way?

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I mean, you know, as long as she's happy, you know, because, you know, if, if, if that's better for her, then, you know, I don't want to keep her trapped in a marriage that she doesn't want to be in.

Speaker 6 Well, thanks for sharing a little background about that. I know we were, I was kind of interested in what that was, what that experience.

Speaker 8 And then leading into our relationship, it was,

Speaker 8 I didn't realize the full effect that that had on me of like that.

Speaker 8 this betrayal codependency also sure a lot of baggage i guess and so when we got the call for the show we had been on and off again for what two and a half years so you had broken up a few times already in that relationship

Speaker 5 yeah probably just like twice officially one when he kissed a girl at a bar and I got a video of it when I was on vacation okay the other one when he took my friend home from a bar and spent the night with her so okay yeah okay well that's not entirely true but yeah do you please rebuttal well

Speaker 1 all i will i want to say so far i appreciate everyone giving each other a chance to speak.

Speaker 8 I mean, most we only officially dated for a few months, like the first time. And then we emotionally exclusive for pretty much that whole two and a half years.

Speaker 8 But after the divorce was final, you know, she was like, okay, like we got to get this moving. And so I officially asked her out.

Speaker 8 And then we just had a lot of issues those first few months.

Speaker 6 But what about the kissing at the bar?

Speaker 8 Yeah. And that's when we actually decided to take a break.

Speaker 8 And she was going on a work trip to belize and then on that break yeah that's when she got the video of gotcha yeah and that was the whole infidelity thing on the show and the cheating thing was me kissing someone at a bar when we were on a break what about the taking the friend we weren't even dating at that time Yeah, I mean, but we were still emotionally exclusive, like we were dating.

Speaker 5 I mean,

Speaker 5 it was a whole two and a half year situationship, if you will. We were official for those couple of months, but I wasn't sleeping or seeing anybody else, vice versa.

Speaker 8 But you slept with your ex-boyfriend right after.

Speaker 1 No, I didn't.

Speaker 8 Yes, you did. You remember you said you had regrets about it and you wish you didn't do that? No.
And it was literally right after the Belize trip.

Speaker 1 Don't recall.

Speaker 6 What you did. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 So, and we like, that was like a whole topic of conversation. And I talked about that of like, yeah, my infidelity was kissing someone on a break.

Speaker 8 And then a couple days later, back from your trip, you went to go sleep with your friend. I believe it was after you took your friend to the concert at Bridstone, the Adam Sandler concert.

Speaker 1 I went with a girl.

Speaker 8 I know, but it was after that. You said after that, you called him.
We had a whole entire conversation.

Speaker 5 I really don't know what you're talking about at all because I dated a girl before I dated him. So I don't know which ex-boyfriend is talking about.

Speaker 6 How did you hear about this alleged story?

Speaker 1 From her. Okay.

Speaker 8 I heard it from her mouth. We had a whole entire conversation about it.

Speaker 5 You guys know me and how honest I am from the show. I'm ten toes down always.
I'd absolutely own up to some shit like that because it just doesn't matter to me.

Speaker 5 but you can write whatever narrative you want what does that night look like in your memory this bridge adam sandler oh yeah i took my so it was his christmas present i bought tickets to see adam sandler at bridgestone um we weren't together at this time because he had taken my friend home from a bar so i asked my friend lexi to go with me and that's all we did we went there and then we went on broadway and then i went home she can vouch for me too my friend Lexi, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 So and

Speaker 1 you're saying that's oh, that's another, oh, that's a flat out lie.

Speaker 8 Yeah. You know what what I mean?

Speaker 6 Well, I don't, but I mean, we're going to have to let the people decide. I appreciate you guys both sharing your version.

Speaker 8 I'm pretty sure I'll have receipts on that one.

Speaker 1 So, you know, nothing I'm worried about.

Speaker 2 So who initially's idea was it to go on the show?

Speaker 5 They reached out technically to both of us.

Speaker 5 We were in the Netflix database because of another show we were interviewing for when Netflix was cracking down on the password sharing and they pulled some shows.

Speaker 5 That show we were interviewing for got pulled. But they let us know we're keeping you in the the database.
And that was a year ago. Well, a year from we got the call.

Speaker 5 They were like, are you guys still together? And we're like, yeah, sort of. And yeah, he was a big proponent.
I feel like he was driving the boat because he had the things he wanted to prove.

Speaker 5 And I was just kind of along for the ride.

Speaker 6 If I may, you don't strike me as someone who's along for the ride. You seem more like a leader.
Agreed. So I would, in terms of what role did you play in terms of saying yes to this?

Speaker 6 Because it is hard as a viewer to believe that you were just more of the demure, I guess we'll go because Tyler wanted to go.

Speaker 5 Well, they reached out to me. All of this communication, like for the first show, was all me.
Okay.

Speaker 5 When they came back around, I just told him like, hey, what do you think about this Temptation Island? Like, let's start watching it, see what you think. So I guess you could say I was the catalyst.

Speaker 5 But once it came down to, oh, are we really going to do this after multiple interviews? I would say he was the one to be like, yes, let's do it.

Speaker 2 What was your relationship like a month before you left for the show?

Speaker 8 Oh, we were, we were going to break up when we got the call. That was the whole thing.
So they called us and they're like, all right, we haven't talked in about a year. How's it going?

Speaker 8 And we're like, well, because we just got back from a trip to Mexico and it was a rough trip.

Speaker 5 And I paid for completely.

Speaker 1 Okay. Unnecessary.

Speaker 8 What about Costa Rica a couple months before that?

Speaker 5 A couple months. That was two years before that.
And I've paid for every single vacation after that. So that just,

Speaker 8 okay, so I guess we can.

Speaker 1 This, yeah, this was a part of address the storyline.

Speaker 8 So let me, let me ask you this question. Were you financially supporting me?

Speaker 5 You weren't 100%

Speaker 5 living with me, but you were living off of me. So absolutely.

Speaker 1 What do you mean by that?

Speaker 8 Yeah, how was I living with you?

Speaker 5 So he split time between my house and his pregnant sister, their one-year-old and husband's house. He did not have a home of his own.

Speaker 5 So he spent 50-50 basically, did not pay anything in bills, groceries, would come over to my house, eat everything, make a mess, then leave, go back to his sister's, and then she would take care of him.

Speaker 5 So that

Speaker 1 did you have a house, Tyler?

Speaker 5 Did you have somewhere else to go except my house or your pregnant sister's house?

Speaker 8 I spent very little time at your house and you talked about, we talked about that. We had several conversations about that leading up to the show.
You didn't even want me to stay at your house.

Speaker 8 You didn't even want me around. Like we were about to break up and literally the relationship was in shambles and we wanted to figure out if it was going to work.

Speaker 8 But you never financially supported me. You never paid for me.

Speaker 5 Who paid for the majority of the dates? That's why we didn't do that.

Speaker 8 That is not true.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let me ask you this.

Speaker 6 When this was happening, you know, when I met Natalie, you know, everyone, when couples meet, you're at different stages of relationship.

Speaker 6 Sometimes you're at different earning potential and things like that. We have a bit of an age gap in our relationship.
When I met Natalie, I was in a different position of my life.

Speaker 6 And so there were things that that I paid for mostly because I was just in that position. But at the time in which I did it, I was very happy to do it, right?

Speaker 6 It was more like, this is the relationship I want to be in. This is who I'm dating.

Speaker 6 I'm accepting my partner where they're at. Was that your mindset at the time? Or did you always kind of resent Tyler for his financial situation, whatever it was from your perception?

Speaker 5 I'm a southern woman at heart. I believe in gender roles.
I mean, I feel like the man should be in there masculine and pay for things. So yes, I was a little resentful.

Speaker 6 And is that something when you were, when he's going through his divorce and you guys are dating, what was your expectation or understanding of Tyler's situation? I guess

Speaker 6 my question is, is like when you started this relationship, what exactly were you saying yes to, right? Because like in relationships, when we're 18, 19, it's like, you're hot. I feel something.

Speaker 6 Let's date. You know, there's, that's, that's as far as it goes.
As we get older, we have past relationships, we have experiences. So what were you, did you accept Tyler at the time?

Speaker 6 Or was it immediately like, I love you because you're like hot and tall, but like get a job. Get a job.

Speaker 5 So he had a job when we first got together. He had the high-rise apartment in downtown Nashville, the nice car.
So all these things is what drew me to him

Speaker 5 and connected us close together. It was about a year into our relationship where he said, and honestly, I'm going to write the narrative.
Sorry, Tyler. You didn't walk away.
You got fired.

Speaker 5 So there you go. That was another little detail that I was trying to keep close to my heart on the show for his sake.

Speaker 5 But him being on social media doing these Q ⁇ As and saying that I was lying, we're not going to play that.

Speaker 6 What Q ⁇ As are,

Speaker 6 I'm aware of some stuff, but I haven't told you.

Speaker 5 He's been doing question boxes on his Instagram stories, answering questions that people have.

Speaker 6 Do you have exceptions to a couple of his answers?

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. They get sent to me on bennotes to me.
It's not like I'm seeking them out or anything like that. Social media is good.

Speaker 8 yeah i do have so when we met i did you know i was making a lot of money high-rise nice car all that and literally i had a lot of stuff that i had to go through you know what i mean and my whole leaving corporate america and everything was the biggest blessing in my life you know what i mean And, you know, when you're in a relationship with somebody, like I shared all that with her, you know what I mean?

Speaker 8 And she helped me through that. And there's a lot of stuff that I had to fix.
you know what I mean?

Speaker 8 And now it just kind of feels, especially on the show, like I'm being gaslit for, you know, trying to like follow my dreams and do something new, you know what I mean?

Speaker 8 And change my narrative and go in my direction. And because of what she wants, which is the gender roles and all that, it's just unacceptable.

Speaker 1 for her. That's very clear.

Speaker 8 And that's allowed to be unacceptable, you know, but when you did did meet me, I was at a good place. Yeah, sure, financially and all that, but I wasn't in a good place in a lot of other areas.

Speaker 8 And I had to make so many sacrifices to try and get my shit straight.

Speaker 6 Like sacrifices, like what?

Speaker 8 Like literally, like everything in my life changed. We're talking about job stuff.
We're talking about dream stuff. We're talking about relationship stuff, better relationship with my family.

Speaker 8 You know what I mean? There's just,

Speaker 8 I was a mess, you know?

Speaker 8 So. That's how it just feels now is like, now she's saying, okay,

Speaker 8 you know, I was this a horrible guy and I was this a deadbeat living off of you. You know what I mean?

Speaker 8 And I understand that you were attracted to me because I was the breadwinner and I was in a strong relationship and I played that masculine role, you know, but shit changes.

Speaker 5 And I knew. And I stood by you for an entire year.

Speaker 5 I literally didn't ask you for shit until we were about to go on Temptation Island and I was trying to ask you for an action plan, which is a normal thing to do as a grown adult, to ask your partner, hey, can we just make a plan?

Speaker 1 I know. I didn't plan about what?

Speaker 5 Are we going to get get a job in the next six months? What do you see for the future? What do you want to talk about?

Speaker 8 I mean, so this is where I disagree a little bit. Our relationship was not how she's perceiving it to be.
Like we're dating, we're sitting down having financial future conversations.

Speaker 8 It was a complete shit show. And you know it was.

Speaker 5 I can agree that it was a shit show, but that doesn't mean that I didn't support your dreams or these lofty ideas that you had to walk away from corporate America.

Speaker 5 I said, okay, I'll stand by you and we're going to do this until I'm sick of of it. And I got fucking sick of it.

Speaker 8 And I, and I do. And then you turned.
And that's fine. Now that's what I'm, I didn't say you didn't support me.
I didn't say any of that, but that's what I'm saying on the show.

Speaker 8 Literally, you flipped and said, you know, I'm a deadbeat living at your house, which is

Speaker 5 I never clarified and said that you lived with me. I said, I pay the mortgage.
I buy the groceries.

Speaker 1 I never said Tyler lived in my house. It was your house.
Yes.

Speaker 5 Yeah. It was my house.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And what are your dreams that you keep referring to?

Speaker 5 What is it you want to do?

Speaker 8 Well, entertainment, honestly, just music, you know, and I've had a lot of fun just modeling, doing stuff like, you know, the Netflix thing and just much different than what's that?

Speaker 1 What? Oh, sorry.

Speaker 8 What was that?

Speaker 3 I just was saying, you're saying entertainment.

Speaker 1 I'm like talking about the show that you guys went on together.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's always been to attain a dream. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Well, that's also been her dream too. So I mean, I mean, look at your Instagram page.

Speaker 5 I mean, if we can, if you want to take it there, I mean, you're the number one clout chaser on this entire thing.

Speaker 5 You literally used me to meet all these people in Nashville because you got out of a marriage.

Speaker 5 You jumped to Kay on the show, didn't genuinely have a connection with her, just found out she had the most followers.

Speaker 5 If you want to look to Lino, I can play a voice recording from Leno saying that you were doing that.

Speaker 1 Taylor, I'm sorry. I have to interject here.
Grant, this isn't about you right now.

Speaker 1 She hasn't attacked you a single time. I'm not attacking him.
This is all the truth.

Speaker 5 This is the truth. I'm speaking my truth.
Nothing is wrong with that.

Speaker 1 It has to attack him as a person.

Speaker 5 It's not attacking.

Speaker 5 This is a situation involving our relationship, and I'm just talking about that.

Speaker 6 I want to move on for a bit and pause on this for a second. But for the four individuals who are single, or at least not with each other, clearly there's some hard feelings.

Speaker 6 Clearly, there seems to be some resentment. I am, you know, specifically for Tyler and Taylor, and we'll move on to you two.

Speaker 6 Where do you feel like that anger still comes from? Because it has been, what, how long since you guys have been broken up?

Speaker 5 Nine months since the show, I guess.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 So where's most of the frustration come from at this point?

Speaker 8 I can answer that. My frustration is from the out-of-context, misleading information from the show.
Like I've completely moved on from this.

Speaker 8 You know, the only thing that's kind of getting me angry right now is just this stance that she's trying to take. And I feel like she still needs to put me down in order to put herself up.

Speaker 8 And I don't get that tactic. You went through a lot in the two and a half years and there's a lot of stuff that I would never bring up and I held back on the show.

Speaker 8 Not going to talk about it now, but I don't need to put you down in order to feel better about my decisions. I'm in a much better place now and happy and moved on.

Speaker 8 So my resentment or I just feel like it's just a little bit heated right now because of just, I just feel like some misleading information.

Speaker 1 What about you, Taylor?

Speaker 5 I really don't have much. I'm just stating the truth and I just hate hearing around,

Speaker 5 you know, social media and his Q ⁇ As that I've been lying and things of that nature.

Speaker 6 But you do seem a a bit.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is just my stance.

Speaker 5 When I get confrontational, this is how I get. I mean, I don't really have anything to say about that.

Speaker 1 Ashley and Grant, two of you were together for two and a half years. Is that right? A year and a half.
A year and a half. On and off before.
On and off as well. Yeah.

Speaker 11 Okay.

Speaker 2 So what was the state of your relationship before going on to Temptation Island?

Speaker 1 It was rocky. For sure.
It was? Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of resentment from the beginning.

Speaker 2 What happened at the beginning that caused resentment?

Speaker 1 I cheated on Ashley. Okay.

Speaker 6 How did Ashley find out?

Speaker 1 Oh, she got a DM.

Speaker 2 What was the

Speaker 1 cheating like? What was the cheating like?

Speaker 2 What did you do? Yeah. Like, did you go home with the girl? Did you kiss the girl at the bar?

Speaker 3 He left my apartment to go take a business meeting, which was not a business meeting, and then came home

Speaker 1 to me.

Speaker 2 So the two of you clearly worked through that, though.

Speaker 1 No, you didn't.

Speaker 1 Well, that's

Speaker 1 kind of why we ultimately decided that the show could be a good idea, right? Okay.

Speaker 6 So that you guys going on the show was a direct result from your initial information?

Speaker 1 We had a very real intention for going on the show. It wasn't, you know,

Speaker 1 I think a lot of the other couples had months of thinking about it, applying and whatever else.

Speaker 1 We had like two weeks.

Speaker 1 It was very sudden, but we decided to do it. We thought it, you know, it's either going to make us or it's going to break us.
So that's why we went, you know.

Speaker 3 We were very on and off, like I said. And the last time we broke up before the show, we go back and forth on who's begging for who and what the position is.

Speaker 3 Last time we broke up before the show, he was chasing me down, trying to prove like I can trust him, X, Y, Z. And I'm very much like a signs from the universe person.

Speaker 3 So I was like manifesting like, should I be with this man? Like, what do I do? And one of my close friends was casting for the show. And I kept seeing him post it.
And he posted his like last call.

Speaker 3 And I was like, fuck it. Just like submit us.

Speaker 3 And then I got a call from California and I was sitting there with him. And I was like, he was like, don't answer it.
Like, we're not doing it. And then she called and left a voicemail.

Speaker 3 And I've always said, like, I don't know how I feel about having my own kids, but I was like, if I ever had a kid, I like Naomi was on the list. And the voicemail was from a girl named Naomi.

Speaker 3 And so I was like, we're calling back.

Speaker 3 And so it was just like weird.

Speaker 6 What was your biggest reason for initially not wanting to go on?

Speaker 1 It's fucking crazy. Okay.
Sure. What do you mean? Well,

Speaker 1 like, you already resent me. I've already fucked up enough and you want to put me on an island with 12 single girls.
That's fucking crazy.

Speaker 6 You were, so in a way, do you think you were almost doubting your ability to?

Speaker 1 It's, it's more that it was just, it's obviously a shit show.

Speaker 1 Like there's no good reason that I could think of to go at the, initially, when, you know, she said, hey, you know, this guy reached out and, you know, we could maybe go on this Netflix show.

Speaker 1 At first, I was like, fuck no. Why would we do that? That makes no sense.

Speaker 1 Then, you know, started thinking about it. I was like, you know what? This could be like a golden opportunity.
Like, all I have to do is not sleep with a girl for three weeks.

Speaker 1 And then you let go of this resentment. It's a miracle thing.
Okay, sure. Let's try it.

Speaker 6 And was just not sleeping with the girl you're

Speaker 1 well, because she had this resentment already. Yeah, I mean, you know, I was thinking, I'm like, all right, I'm not, I'm not cheating on you right now.
I have cheated on you in the past.

Speaker 1 I've been been trying to chase you over this last year and a half. It's been hell for both of us.
You're not letting go of this resentment.

Speaker 1 Okay, all I have to do is not cheat, which I'm not doing right now. Okay, let's do it.
Okay. That was my thought process,

Speaker 1 which is why I said, all right, fine. Let's be open to it.
Okay. You know, thoughts, feelings, concerns.

Speaker 3 Just let him keep speaking.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like what he's saying isn't true?

Speaker 9 I mean,

Speaker 3 that was the story. That was what it was.

Speaker 3 And like during the interviews, it was when when it switched and it was like oh this is a golden opportunity to do that he was taking interviews saying like i want to marry her like i could see myself proposing at the end of this oh wow

Speaker 6 so you went into this experience i guess here's my question how hopeful were you versus like how like realistic about what this experience actually would bring so like what did your gut tell you like because you're you're talking about hey i was hoping this and i was hoping this but this is a man who you had dated for a year and a half you guys had some problems you're like how how much did you believe that this experience could really bring you guys together versus will this experience just kind of give me the clarity i need firsthand because you know sometimes when we're in relationships and it's not going well you know oftentimes we stay in relationships because of how we met or how long we dated or how much work we've put into this and it's just like man oh man man it's just like none of this work i don't want to start over you know but sometimes you find that we're in relationships for the wrong reasons and we're fighting for relationships the wrong reasons And I'm curious, from your standpoint, thinking back, like, what do you think is more true?

Speaker 3 I fully wanted clarity. Like, I had no idea what I wanted.
Like, I wanted him to be good to me and I wanted him to prove himself.

Speaker 3 But the reality of the situation was like, I really don't think he's going to make it through this. And it depends on at what point you're asking me.

Speaker 3 Like, obviously, I was hopeful that it didn't turn out the way it did.

Speaker 3 But the moment we were separated on the show, I just

Speaker 3 knew there's no way.

Speaker 2 Did you want him to propose?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 3 I don't think so. I don't really remember what the conversation was like at that point when he made those comments because he had taken an interview by himself.

Speaker 3 Like we both had to interview separately for one of the last stages. And he told me that he had said that about proposing.
And it kind of took me off guard. And I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 I don't really remember.

Speaker 6 Consider that or say that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So what I said in my interview is that I am trying to figure out, is this girl the one for me? Is this someone that I could see being a stepmother to my child?

Speaker 1 Is this someone that can be my partner in life? And, you know, she had supported me a lot over the last year and a half, but

Speaker 1 with this thing over my head, you know, there wasn't...

Speaker 6 What's this thing?

Speaker 1 My past, my infidelity, me cheating on her, right?

Speaker 1 And it was so toxic. It was terrible.
You know, we'd break up. I'd go do something for the girl.
We'd get back together. I'd lie about it.
She'd find out, have more resentment, do it again and again.

Speaker 1 And we just had this terrible year and a half. I mean, it was bad.

Speaker 1 But when we got the call for the show,

Speaker 1 I've always wanted a family. I've always wanted to be married one day.
I had a kid, a beautiful little girl, and I had to introduce her to Ashley. And I was trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 And so when I was on this interview, they were asking me, of course, they prompted the question, would you ever marry this girl? And I said, I don't know right this second.

Speaker 1 But if this goes well, if we figure out that we want to be together, yeah. I mean, obviously, like the show is going to show us, you know, can we make this work?

Speaker 1 Can we do it? And if we can, then yeah, of course I'd marry that girl.

Speaker 6 You talked just now, you talk a lot about, you know, the initial infidelity and that obviously being a challenging your relationship, but you kind of speak on it in a way it's as if like there was nothing you can do about it after the infidelity.

Speaker 6 But then when you talk more about it, you kind of talk about every time you took a break, it's just like, well, then you went and met another girl.

Speaker 6 Like at any point after the infidelity, were there things that you felt like you needed to change about yourself as a boyfriend or just your actions?

Speaker 1 Because not then. Not then.
Not then. No.
Okay. Not at all.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I think I was so focused on how she was treating me when we were together that when we would break up, I'd be like, damn, okay, finally I'm free and I could go do what I want to do, but then I would miss her and then we would get back together.

Speaker 1 And I never learned my lesson.

Speaker 6 So when you say not then, what has changed for you

Speaker 6 between then and now?

Speaker 1 I mean, look, I cheated on TV. Everyone knows it.
Everyone saw it.

Speaker 1 And I had to really look at myself in the mirror and face some things that I didn't like. I took accountability.
We tried to make it work and it

Speaker 1 didn't. And, you know, now I have

Speaker 1 a regret that I didn't think I would have, but my regret is not walking away when I first crossed that line. I mean, we could have saved us.
I could have saved us two years of turmoil.

Speaker 6 Which, with the initial infidelity? Yeah. Yeah, but that's hindsight's 2020.

Speaker 1 Well, right, right, for sure. For so long after that, you really hindsight.
That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, no, I understand.

Speaker 6 But do you really regret?

Speaker 6 Did you, have you learned nothing about yourself as a man, as a boyfriend, even after that, or even going on Temptation Island with Ashley that would make you maybe not want to regret that experience.

Speaker 6 Cause like, you know,

Speaker 6 Natalie likes to joke, like before Natalie, I'm not allowed to talk about it. You know, she calls it the VN.
But I've had relationships. I've been engaged.
I've been on TV with relationships.

Speaker 6 And like they, you know, they didn't work out, but like I learned a lot about myself, both as a person, as a partner. You know, I had been cheated on, you know,

Speaker 6 but I, you know, I had to look in the mirror and say, like, not that it was my fault, but like, what role did I play?

Speaker 6 So what in those experiences have you learned about yourself? I asked because, you know, and again, this is so fun. I mean, not for you guys, but for us,

Speaker 6 for the people watching and listening, to really get to know you as people, right? We, we talk, we watch these shows, they're edited, we understand that. There's a storyline, we understand that.

Speaker 6 So, now it's nice to get to know the people. But watching the show, it's something I often say a lot to my audience.

Speaker 6 But you seem to be, you come across on the show, and I say this a lot, and I think a lot of, especially ladies listening, and you might feel the same way, but you seem like a guy who really loves having a girlfriend, but you don't love being a boyfriend.

Speaker 1 Not at the time.

Speaker 1 I think I got a lot of things wrong. I don't think I understood, you know, what it took to have what I was wanting.
And that's the truth.

Speaker 1 And I still didn't figure it out even on the show. I figured out really what I wanted, like what my non-negotiables were.

Speaker 1 And ultimately, I decided that, you know, she wasn't giving me what I really needed.

Speaker 1 And that's why I decided to move on. Now, hindsight, I should have broken up with her again, making the same mistake that I made a year and a half prior.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I didn't learn my lesson, like what I could have been doing better until after the show, until dating Natalie, until cheating on Natalie with Ashley, until really fucking it all up.

Speaker 1 You know, like it took, it took a lot. Unfortunately, it did take that much for me to really figure it out.
And then, you know, Ashley and I were together.

Speaker 1 I mean, from, from, I don't know, August until, I think, the end of January, we were consistently talking whether, you know, she wanted to be talking to me or not. We were talking and talking.

Speaker 1 And we eventually started dating. We spent the whole holidays together.
Just past. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, we were together for, I don't know, six months, you know, trying to work it out.

Speaker 6 Post-Natalie.

Speaker 1 Post-Natalie. Okay.
Exclusively only dating for two months or so.

Speaker 1 But at that point, you know, I was ready to marry her. I, I, everything in me, I was like, like, damn, Grant, you're a fucking idiot.
Like,

Speaker 1 what did you do? I mean, the last 10 years of my life, I had been fucking up and not learning my lesson. And it took all of this for me to figure it out.
And, you know, we tried and it didn't work.

Speaker 6 What does being a boyfriend mean to you?

Speaker 1 Being a boyfriend? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think now it means a little bit different than it did. I think when we were together, uh prior to the show, I wasn't listening.
I wasn't understanding. I didn't have as much empathy as I did after.

Speaker 1 And I wasn't a rock for, you know? And I think all of those things now I know that that's what I have to deliver to, I guess, expect what I want in my partner.

Speaker 2 How are you feeling listening to him speak on your relationship?

Speaker 3 I don't know what I was expecting him to say. I think that everything he's saying is like valid, true, and he should have just left it at that.

Speaker 1 I fully like admitted in the Netflix article that we got back together.

Speaker 3 He did everything he could and I couldn't get past it. Like I felt as though he had put in the work and I just, I just couldn't move past what we went through.

Speaker 6 So when you guys got back together, do you feel like you saw at least some growth in Grant?

Speaker 10 I did.

Speaker 3 And then everything just went to shit the last few weeks.

Speaker 1 Would you mind speaking on that, Sam? Yeah, what went to shit?

Speaker 3 Just like the way you reacted to everything.

Speaker 3 Like posting screenshots when the initial like teaser trailer came out, he called me and like bitched me out saying I look like such a hoe in the trailer while I an hour later found out there was another girl in his bed as he was calling me doing this.

Speaker 1 I think after the after the show there was so much noise and I felt this need to explain to explain the truth like understand me understand what's happening and I only recently realized that it doesn't matter that like I don't need to be understood.

Speaker 1 I need to understand myself and for God to understand me. And that is literally it.
I know what I learned. I know what I became.
I know what I'm becoming. And that's it.

Speaker 6 Is that true, what Ashley said in terms of what you said to her, fizzle?

Speaker 1 I don't think I said you're a hoe, but I was probably a little heated there.

Speaker 1 But yeah, yeah, I called her surprise because she was telling me that certain things didn't happen on the show and the trailer was making it seem a certain way.

Speaker 1 And again, I shouldn't have called her at all, but I did.

Speaker 6 So do you you feel like you owe an apology for whatever you did say?

Speaker 1 Yeah, if I called her a hoe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Ashley.

Speaker 3 You quite literally texted me and said, I should have fucked Alex too.

Speaker 1 I would love to see that receipt. That's crazy.

Speaker 3 All the single girls have it as well.

Speaker 1 So if you're looking for it. Do you have?

Speaker 1 I don't have it on me, but yeah. Wow.

Speaker 6 You don't remember that?

Speaker 1 I don't remember sending that. No, but yeah, after the show was so crazy about seeing everything going on, and I got so heated.
I even called Ashley while she was on the live and I yelled. I was so

Speaker 1 so heartbroken, so so confused as to what was going on. I mean, she was calling the mother of my child crying saying, I'm so worried about Graham.

Speaker 1 So I'm so worried about him and Emory and blah, blah, blah. While simultaneously

Speaker 1 two weeks ago, this is two weeks ago. And the same day she's posting TikToks.
making fun of me, bashing on me, like saying, oh, we were together for 0.2 seconds. I didn't mean it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I said I wanted to be his wife, but I didn't mean it. Like downplaying.
And that crushed me. That broke me in half because that six months where I was chasing her and where I

Speaker 1 let her beat my spirit into a pulp.

Speaker 6 What do you mean when you let her beat your spirit?

Speaker 1 I kind of allowed myself to be conditioned that being mistreated was my fault. Someone lashing out was just because I triggered it.

Speaker 1 If I was just better for myself, if I changed myself, if I communicated better, that it would be okay.

Speaker 1 Now and only recently, I've realized I'm not responsible for how someone else handles their pain for either their inability to heal or forgive or all these things.

Speaker 1 And I was, you might, I was keeping it on my side. I might be the cause.

Speaker 1 Regardless, what I did, I'm not responsible for how they're treating me. And I was letting it be okay.
And, and what hurt me after the show is hearing how she was downplaying what happened.

Speaker 1 I mean, it it's uh it broke my heart. And I made my time

Speaker 1 threatening to release text messages of her sounding crazy or whatever and i was like

Speaker 1 i was so hurt and i was trying so hard to explain what happened like how like how could you be downplaying when we had this insanely intense six months of really trying how how could you laugh how could you joke about it you're saying that you love me that you love my daughter yet you're okay letting the world have this version of me when you know that i changed already like how how could you do that it broke me in half and so kind of like a hurt people hurt people you you kind of were trying to get back yeah but i i didn't i never i never backlashed on her i never said anything bad about her i did threaten to release text messages the only thing that i shared was a message of her saying hey i love you i need you i see that you've changed it was her uh explaining that i had changed and because that was my only goal

Speaker 1 i've never walked around with people just hating me and now all of a sudden there's millions of people that are watching me hating me based on an edit they saw yeah i I cheated, I fucked up.

Speaker 1 But they don't know what happened after. And, you know, she has this big influence.

Speaker 1 And I'm baffled how she can simultaneously be telling me that she loves me and my daughter and sits on her hands and makes jokes. It kills me.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like him saying you beat his spirit to a pulp is a true statement?

Speaker 1 Or do you disagree?

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 3 I don't. I don't know how I want to like approach that.

Speaker 1 Maybe say it like truthfully. What actually happened?

Speaker 3 I mean, you pursued me for months and I wasn't allowed, like I wasn't letting you back in. I wasn't allowing it.
Finally, I came back.

Speaker 1 You had flown out to my family.

Speaker 3 You've met up with all my friends while I was gone for a month and basically explained your side of the story, how much you regretted it, how much.

Speaker 3 you loved me and wanted to marry me. You went and bought a ring, XYZ.
So I basically came home and you had already gotten everyone on your side.

Speaker 3 You had done what you could to try to get me to forgive you. And so you kind of broke me down in a way where I was like, shit, like, I need to give this guy a chance.
He's fighting for me so hard.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I just felt like I wasn't ready to give up on it.
And so then we got back together fully for those like couple months during the holidays.

Speaker 3 I did feel like he was showing an effort and he like did a 180. And I've, I said that, I released that in the article.
That wasn't, we couldn't really speak on it at first.

Speaker 3 But then I just snapped. I couldn't do it.

Speaker 3 I knew I was never gonna let go and i knew i wasn't treating him fairly and it wasn't making me feel good about myself did i beat his spirit to a pulp i don't know but

Speaker 1 i was not in a good place and so that's why we broke up the best the message i'm sorry the the the mess the one message that i i did share um

Speaker 1 it was her ex explaining how poorly she treated me like She's saying she didn't beat my spirit into a pulp, but oh my God, I think what I was missing in all of of my past relationships, my whole life, I never really was vulnerable with who I was with.

Speaker 1 And I think that played a big part in me cheating, being a cheater, and constantly stepping out.

Speaker 1 And when we'd break up, me going and finding another girl to kind of fill that void, I was never completely vulnerable.

Speaker 1 And during those six months after the show, I wish I could look back on it and regret it because of how painful it is. But I have never been so sure and

Speaker 1 so sure about what I was doing, I guess.

Speaker 6 And that is fighting for your relationship.

Speaker 1 And that was fighting for her and making sure that she only felt love and understanding, and that I was there no matter what. And when she's saying she didn't beat me to poll, I mean, she was a bully.

Speaker 6 But I suppose that's just a matter of opinion and perspective. I mean, both two things can be true at the same time.

Speaker 6 And like, I can imagine from your perspective, you seem earnest about like really wanting to like have some growth and fight for this relationship.

Speaker 6 And then you have Ashley here kind of, you know, still struggling with the past. These experiences are traumatic.

Speaker 6 These experience can really change you as a person, but usually that growth happens over time.

Speaker 6 And do you feel like maybe some of your truth is more coming from that place of finally waking up and fighting something and it just maybe being a little too late for Ashley and

Speaker 6 being upset at her that she wasn't acknowledging your growth?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm not upset at her for not acknowledging my growth because she eventually did. What I'm upset about now is very different than what I was before.

Speaker 1 It was really hard when she broke up with me at the end, the end of January or so. And it sucked, like I knew that I had done everything I could.

Speaker 1 I knew that I had absolutely became the best version of myself for her. I wish I did it sooner, but I didn't.

Speaker 1 And no, I wasn't mad at her for ending it because she was was miserable.

Speaker 1 I was miserable fighting and being

Speaker 1 backlashed at. It was hard.
I would have kept going forever, but she ended it and it was okay.

Speaker 1 And after she ended it, when she was, you know, remorseful for ending it and when she was reaching out to try and fix it,

Speaker 1 I was trying to get myself in the head space that I am now where I just need to walk away.

Speaker 1 We're broken.

Speaker 1 It's impossible. I've given you everything.
You're not going to forgive me. It's okay.

Speaker 1 And now I'm feeling differently

Speaker 1 because of

Speaker 1 how she's portraying things online.

Speaker 3 It it kills me. What exactly do you think I'm doing? Like you're acting like I'm sitting here bashing you.
I'm making like funny TikToks that half of them don't even have to do with you.

Speaker 3 And you had the audacity to release an entire, I don't know, what, 10 minute video talking about how much you love Natalie and how perfect she was after you spent the last six months trying to convince me to marry you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, my

Speaker 1 video that she's referring to was

Speaker 1 the whole goal of it was just to try and tell people to stop hating. This Natalie girl that I dated and I fell for was getting a lot of hate.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I found myself in this love triangle eventually where

Speaker 1 I loved Ashley. I loved Natalie.
And that the whole purpose of that video was just to try and get people to stop hating on Natalie. I wasn't bashing on Ashley.

Speaker 2 And that was while y'all were, that was like in the six months that y'all were.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, this was a week, a week, a week ago. But that's the problem.

Speaker 1 That's why I was saying I was focused so hard on trying to explain myself and trying to get people to understand. And hey, here's the truth.
Here's the truth. What actually happened?

Speaker 1 Because she's downplaying.

Speaker 2 Why were you trying so hard to protect Natalie and not protect Ashley?

Speaker 1 Ashley didn't need protecting. She has a cult following of love.
It's, you know, I don't,

Speaker 1 she didn't need protecting. I didn't think.

Speaker 1 And the videos that I'm talking about of her bashing on me, no, she hasn't

Speaker 1 bashed on me per se, but anyone watching any of those videos, it is so clear that she's downplaying who I am. She is.

Speaker 8 It's passive aggressive.

Speaker 6 It was triggering for you.

Speaker 1 Whatever. I mean, how I feel about it is whatever.

Speaker 1 It's the fact that... like I have this idea of she's always expressed to me how loyal she is and how how much she has my back and even in those six months and how she's acting is not loyal.

Speaker 1 It kills me because she's saying that she loves me and my daughter, but is, and I, I've, I've,

Speaker 2 do you feel like they were just funny memes that you were following a trend and it's not this deep?

Speaker 3 It was always like for fun. It was, I've never,

Speaker 3 I feel as though you should, and I don't even want to say it like this, like you should feel lucky how much.

Speaker 3 I love your daughter and respect and have empathy for the mother of your daughter that I don't release the things you've done and said to me. Like, I don't want to make it messy.

Speaker 3 I don't want to make things worse for you.

Speaker 3 What I've been posting is like funny, just like joking, very lighthearted. It was never meant to attack you.

Speaker 3 And then it became a point where you decided to try and blackmail me into making a statement that you're a good father or you were going to release texts. And then you did.
So I don't know how.

Speaker 3 I would have loved to have like gotten to a point where we broke up and I could sit here and justify why I would have taken you back to begin with and been like, he's changed. He's a good man.

Speaker 3 and we just couldn't make it work, like whatever. But then you started doing all this shit on social media and spiraling and saying dumb stuff.

Speaker 1 What kind of dumb stuff do you think I said about?

Speaker 3 You screamed at me on TikTok Live. You were going live, just like rambling about how I'm just like awful.
And the whole thing about Natalie.

Speaker 3 Like, what do you want me to do when you've sat here for months trying to convince me that you fucked up so bad?

Speaker 3 Natalie meant nothing, you are in love with me, you want to marry me, and then turn around and say how much you love her and how perfect she is, and that she's the biggest regret from the show.

Speaker 1 So, I didn't start

Speaker 1 trying to defend the truth and try and explain the truth until after I was sent these videos that she was posting.

Speaker 1 Like, why have one boyfriend when you could have two? Yeah, I got back my extra point two seconds.

Speaker 3 That's a joke. We're broken up.
You're fully sleeping with other people. So, what does that matter?

Speaker 1 Why

Speaker 1 do you feel like it doesn't matter now? That's my point.

Speaker 1 It did. But it didn't matter when I posted it either.

Speaker 6 Listen, we all, listen, we are entitled to our feelings, but like it bothered you.

Speaker 6 Why was it so triggering for you? And why did you feel like Ashley owed you anything in that moment?

Speaker 1 I don't think we owe anything to anyone. I was asking her if she would please just.
say how she really felt.

Speaker 1 Like I was, I just didn't understand how she was downplaying what we had while telling me no i i do love you and i want the best for you and i don't and i don't want you to get this hate when in my head like you posting these yes funny tick tocks but being passive aggressive towards me uh saying you know hey i'm nothing yet he's just insane blah blah blah like getting on a live with natalie and and doing these things and on my live with natalie i literally said he did everything he could I couldn't move on, period.

Speaker 3 That's like, you act like I'm sitting here attacking you. And not once have I sat here and attacked you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I listen,

Speaker 1 that's why I started off saying there was a lot of noise and I was focused on trying to explain it. And now I know it doesn't matter and it's okay.

Speaker 6 Do you have regrets for anything you've done in the past two weeks? It's obviously a very emotional experience for all of you. I imagine when it was going to air, you were like,

Speaker 1 did we need to do this?

Speaker 6 You know, like, fuck, you know? So like, you were emotional. This was a triggering experience.
You got triggered and acted out towards Ashley.

Speaker 1 My acting out towards Ashley, the only time that I did that was really raising my voice on the phone call on the live.

Speaker 2 Did you call her names outside of Ashley?

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 2 She said that there were things that she wasn't comfortable saying that you said to her for the sake of your daughter and the mother

Speaker 1 before the show was released. I mean, we've had, I mean, I've never deleted messages on my phone.
I have probably 900,000.

Speaker 3 I don't want to play that game. I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 Listen, I didn't come here to attack. I didn't come here to point fingers.
I came here because you guys requested us to come in here. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Speaker 6 I want to know, but I, and that's what I'm saying. I want to know, just as a person, I regret yelling.

Speaker 1 I regret yelling.

Speaker 1 That is it. I don't regret defending Natalie.
I don't regret defending Ashley when people are saying that, hey, are you saying that it's her fault? No, she didn't cheat on herself here.

Speaker 1 You fucking dumb. Like, I cheated on her.
Like, it's clear. I am the one that fucked up, regardless of my reasoning, my circumstances, regardless that we were on an insane TV show.

Speaker 1 I'm the one that fucked up. That's that.
And yeah.

Speaker 1 I think it's time for a little break. Yeah.

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Speaker 2 We are back. Do y'all have any feelings of anything that was just said that you'd like to wrap up in a bow?

Speaker 1 Or clarify?

Speaker 6 This is open to everyone.

Speaker 6 We have a lot more questions, so don't you worry.

Speaker 2 I wanted to make sure after everything that was said. Leno, I want to throw it back to you.

Speaker 2 There has been some chatter online kind of

Speaker 2 accusing you of if there would have been a woman that you had a connection with, maybe you would have cheated. Do you agree with that or?

Speaker 7 No, I disagree with that.

Speaker 1 I kind of laugh it off.

Speaker 7 I didn't address it on social media until pretty recently because, you know, I'm allowing a small minority to speak because I didn't feel like I needed to speak out about it.

Speaker 7 But within the first two or three days, all of the single girls knew that I was locked in with Alexa and knew what my end goal was.

Speaker 7 A lot that you didn't see is all of the connections I did form and how much support I had from the single girls. I know they're painted out to be villains.

Speaker 7 They are the tempestresses and our side of the villa doesn't have the best connotation on it, but they were nothing but great with me.

Speaker 7 The single girls were nothing but great with me.

Speaker 7 It shows you me

Speaker 7 practicing my proposal speech with Nikki, but I had read it to almost every single girl that was left there. So, about eight different girls.

Speaker 1 They all cried.

Speaker 7 They all were making assertions that they wish they had a boyfriend like me. And if they were on the show, this is how they'd want them to treat them and act.

Speaker 7 And I did have someone pursuing me very early on. And she cried because I didn't take her on a date.
And you can say her name. It was Mia in this case.
And

Speaker 7 I was looking just for friendships and how to work on myself.

Speaker 7 but someone getting visibly upset at me because I didn't take them on a date within the first few days of being on the island, I felt that was a little bit too much for me, too emotional.

Speaker 7 And I'm the type of person that doesn't want to hurt people's feelings. So I'm not going to drag you along.

Speaker 7 I'm not here for anything physical or really even emotional because, like Nick said earlier, we're there for a couple weeks. I'm not going to form that deep emotional connection.

Speaker 7 That's just not who I am. And

Speaker 7 the whole scenes with Alex, she knew very early on that there were no boundaries, but I wasn't going to cross any. And she was someone who

Speaker 7 had a very playful, fun, and flirty relationship because we knew that we would never cross that boundary and because she respected Alexis's high relationship. Multiple times she had stated this.

Speaker 7 As much as it seemed that I was pursuing her in a few scenes, they are completely out of context. And

Speaker 7 the kissing scene where I said, I'll take this shot if you give me a kiss. Everyone knew that I was not drinking and there was nothing you could do to make me take that shot.

Speaker 7 And if anything, there's always a kiss on the cheek.

Speaker 7 So it was, people needed to learn how to have a little fun.

Speaker 7 I really think that humor was what allowed me to get through this whole experience because I wasn't having fun partying and letting the girls pursue me in that aspect.

Speaker 7 And sometimes it's isolating and lonely. So I just try to use humors to play it off.

Speaker 8 I do remember that. Like, I feel like a lot of the singles were talking about how they're always the ones being pursued, you know, in their day-to-day life.

Speaker 8 And then to hop into that show where they have to be the ones pursuing. So it was almost like they were offended and then they just moved away.
So it's funny to watch that with your story.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 And,

Speaker 7 you know, I was pretty much off limits, but I built friendships with all of them. I still speak to them more than any of the other guys sitting on this couch or even Breonna at home.

Speaker 7 I have great relationships with all of them. They have nothing but good things to say about me and I have nothing good things to say about them.

Speaker 7 And they have also come out on their lives and talked about this whole situation. At first, when people were starting to say this narrative, they were like, why are you asking this?

Speaker 7 What are you talking about? And then as it started to build, they started to answer the question because from their eyes, it was never like that.

Speaker 7 So they had said, I had been nothing but respectful. I was never trying to pursue anyone physically or intimately.
And I'd like to start off with, Alexa and I didn't have any boundaries.

Speaker 7 It was my place to go in and explore in what any capacity that I wanted to. So it already invalidates that whole assertion.

Speaker 7 And yeah, I went on this island to prove a point to myself and to our relationship because I do get a lot of attention.

Speaker 7 You know, it was a little hit to my ego and I hear some of these people saying this, but both Alexa and I are not new to attention. It's something that I dealt with going onto the show.

Speaker 7 It was one of the main storylines that we had spoke about on the show and even getting into the recruiting process. And I wanted to prove to myself that the grass isn't greener.

Speaker 7 Within the first two or three days, I realized that and I didn't want anything to do with them. I knew I bit off more than I could chew.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I had to play ball a little bit.

Speaker 7 It is Temptation Island, not support island.

Speaker 7 So it's not going to show the girls crying over my proposal speeches, saying how much they wish they had a relationship, Alexis and I, and how much I respected her.

Speaker 7 It had to show me, you know, having to fight. And I did fight.
It was an incredibly difficult situation.

Speaker 7 I don't think anyone that doesn't have a strong strong bond that Alexa and I would be able to get through it.

Speaker 5 Honestly.

Speaker 2 Was there any part of you that judged the other guys for folding so quickly?

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 7 First off, I don't judge anyone. Their experiences are theirs.

Speaker 6 Okay, let me rephrase this. Loose enough of it.

Speaker 7 Someone going through a similar situation to me, I'm not going to judge them until I have a bigger picture. And at that time, I didn't.

Speaker 7 I'm just being shown what we're seeing at the bonfires and being told their perspective. So, of course, I'm going to support the guys I'm with.

Speaker 7 It would look like I am a trader, even though I'm getting lumped in with them sometimes. I had to be there for them.
And,

Speaker 7 you know,

Speaker 7 Tyler and Taylor's relationship, I have no backstory. I only have what they show me and what I'm seeing at the bonfires.
So, when there were some

Speaker 7 questionable phrases said against Tyler, I said, okay, well, if your relationship's not strong, then this is a time for you both to form new connections.

Speaker 7 And you both basically form new connections with who you thought the other one would. I know Taylor said that Kay struck Tyler's eye and that's what happened.

Speaker 7 And then Tyler also made an assertion that she would most likely pursue Yeamen and that's exactly what happened too. So I didn't judge either of them.

Speaker 7 And I think both of their journeys were exactly what they. made them to be because going onto the island obviously was a little rocky.

Speaker 7 And once you hear certain things or see certain things from both parties, of course you're going to go in the opposite direction and do exactly what the temptation island is supposed to do is form connections was that you tyler who

Speaker 10 said

Speaker 2 about kay the one in the checkered swimsuits insane

Speaker 1 yeah i that was that was i forgot what i said i remember that was that was a wild thing to say the first five minutes picnic table bikini is insane yeah but you he told you which one he was interested in i guess well i mean we're we're gonna be on national TV.

Speaker 8 It's like, no, there's going to be no secrets for the whole family. So you were leaning in.

Speaker 8 Yeah, but, you know, and watching his connection and how he talked about her really showed me that, you know, I was not anywhere where I thought I was in my relationship.

Speaker 8 And that was, he was a very strong motivator and just letting me realize that, you know, this, this shit ain't run. You know what I mean? And then it just took a little, you know, push.

Speaker 1 Alexa. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You have some.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I wanted to touch on the whole you know i've heard a lot online of people saying like alexa run like he would have cheated on you if the girls were actually interested in him and

Speaker 10 i i don't know people don't like to be yeah i guess but like what i want to say is leno could have cheated on me in three and a half years guys like and he could have cheated on me on the show He didn't, not because the girls weren't interested in him, because he wanted to pursue me and is loyal to me.

Speaker 10 Like I've preached to these girls, they knew from day one, I said, Leno is loyal and he will stay loyal. And I've made that very, very clear.
And I finally met the single girls in LA.

Speaker 10 We had like a little premiere thing. All of us went.
And all of them came up to me and said, we want someone like Leno. The only reason we didn't go after him is because we respect you guys so much.

Speaker 10 So I kind of just wanted to really squash that narrative of so many people telling me, like, hey, he's, he might cheat on you if someone's interested.

Speaker 10 Because so many people people have been interested in him but they respect our relationship and see it enough and he's never i know this man he's not going to give into temptation

Speaker 9 and i just wanted to pursue me i just said no to just about everything

Speaker 1 you're beautiful i think you're very sexy

Speaker 7 thank you you can see me taking a sip of champagne when natalie has to lick something off my neck that was literally like the last straw everyone else i had done everything and of course they just show me having that done but yeah the whole time i was very apprehensive I even say apprehensive cheers on the show.

Speaker 6 So one thing I'd love some clarification from you two is, you know, you've talked about Lino's loyalty, your confidence in him, your confidence that he wouldn't cheat.

Speaker 6 But you've also almost proudly say that you went in this experience without boundaries. Which part is more true? Because it's a bit of a contradiction.

Speaker 6 And what I mean by that is like, it's one thing to say, oh, we didn't have boundaries because we didn't communicate them and talk about them.

Speaker 6 But like, if that motherfucker cheats, I'm done, you know, like where you have a personal boundary that maybe you didn't communicate.

Speaker 6 And so, I'm wondering, what if Lino kissed a woman or went even further?

Speaker 6 Because I almost got the impression when we started this conversation, there was a part of you that was maybe even open to the possibility, given his lack of experience in relationships prior to meeting you, that you kind of referenced going on this experience as like, well, if he's going to do it, at least do it here where there's a bit of an understanding so

Speaker 10 you get what i'm saying i get yeah i totally get it so we had no boundaries basically leano you can do what you want because i want you to get the clarity but obviously selfishly i wanted that clarity to be me okay and i told taylor this i remember we were in the bathroom one time like look i told him no boundaries but if he does kiss somebody what am i supposed to do And because we couldn't communicate throughout the season, it kind of did shift for me where I was like, shoot, if he does something, like, what do I do?

Speaker 10 But I didn't take it as like, okay, if he does something, I will say no, I will leave by myself. I kind of just wanted to hear where that clarity came from if he were to take that hall pass on.

Speaker 10 So it wasn't like a for sure, if you cheat on me, I will not come back to you. I did give him a hall pass.
Whether he used it or not, who knows where we'd be, but I wanted to see if that was going to.

Speaker 10 lead back to me. Say he did use it and he figured out the grass is not greener.

Speaker 10 Then maybe that's something we would have had to work on but that wasn't the way it went and he just didn't use it so it kind of shifted throughout the season in my mind

Speaker 10 how surprised were you uh were you anticipating a proposal were you didn't think it was on the radar definitely thought it was on the radar but when so what you guys didn't see i think when you watched the finale or like the final episode after our bonfire it looks like we just kind of turned the corner and then there was the proposal that is not what happened so the final bonfire was done done.

Speaker 10 Mark said goodbye to us. We get in the car.
Our bags are there. The producer's with us.

Speaker 1 They're like, let's go back to the hotel.

Speaker 11 So I think like all of this is over.

Speaker 10 So like parts of me thought that I could potentially get engaged. But then once it was all over, we're in the car on the way to the hotel.
I'm like, okay, I guess, I guess we just left together.

Speaker 10 And that's like, woohoo, happy ending. So then we were driving to the hotel for about 45 minutes.
And then the producer was like, we forgot your final interview. Let's turn around.

Speaker 10 So we turn around, we go to the final interview, and that's when it happened.

Speaker 2 So I kind of, I thought it was over.

Speaker 2 I thought it was truly over because we were like had our, I was waiting for my phone back.

Speaker 10 I'm like, I need to call my mom.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 6 so that made the nerves even more because I just kind of

Speaker 7 the whole day I knew. I hadn't prepared anything to say at the final bonfire because all I had in my mind was, okay, I need her on my left side when we turn the corner.

Speaker 7 I need to get down on my right knee so the camera can see me from this side. I need to get the ring without her seeing, keep it in my back pocket.

Speaker 7 And I had all these things things running through my mind that in the bottom of the final bonfire, all I did was want to misdirect and keep it a surprise.

Speaker 7 So I had told her that one day I hope that I can propose and get married to you. And we went into the car, did our final little interview, circled back around.

Speaker 7 And at that time, all the nerves started to hit. That's when I started to really feel it.

Speaker 10 I was ready to go to the hotel.

Speaker 1 I'm like, okay, we're done. Like, take this mic off of me.
I'm ready to make the morning.

Speaker 7 It was four in the morning too.

Speaker 10 It was four or five in the morning when you saw our proposal. So we were, were, and I had my hair and makeup done since like 3 p.m.
when I said goodbye to you guys.

Speaker 10 So I was just sitting in a van for like eight hours by myself with my hair and makeup. Like, am I going to get engaged today?

Speaker 1 Am I not?

Speaker 9 Like, what am I doing?

Speaker 11 And also the whole you calling my dad was a total surprise. I didn't find that out until it was all truly over and we were at the hotel.

Speaker 10 We got our phones back and my phone was blown up with my dad.

Speaker 10 just messaging me like you're about to like you know be engaged like this is everything that happened i talked to leno and like it was so beautiful to get that message from my dad when I turned my phone on because I had no idea that happened.

Speaker 10 So that was like, there was a lot of surprises still in there. Obviously, we've talked about getting engaged.

Speaker 6 Is that something you insisted on happening?

Speaker 7 Yeah, I had a few stipulations. One, speaking to her father and her stepfather.
That one was off-camera.

Speaker 7 Ring specifications and just making it as special as possible.

Speaker 1 That's awesome.

Speaker 6 One thing I wanted to talk about,

Speaker 6 and I wanted to ask you ladies,

Speaker 6 you know, as a viewer, as a guy, I'm a little more critical of the men, and I definitely want to address some things with them.

Speaker 6 I do think sometimes the guys talk a lot about accountability, but maybe don't practice it as much as they speak it.

Speaker 6 We'll get back to that in a second. But one theme that I think was evident throughout, even early on, was

Speaker 6 Ashley and Taylor's willingness to talk some shit about your partners, justified or not.

Speaker 1 They are so happy. He rolled

Speaker 1 me talking about it. You know,

Speaker 6 you know, it's like, I think as women and men, we need different things, right?

Speaker 6 As a guy, I just think, you know, it's like one of those, I think us men are as we're, we're, we are as fragile and as weak and as vulnerable as as anyone, right?

Speaker 6 Uh, whether we want to admit it or not. Um, and we want a partner who supports us, who believes in us, especially when we're down bad.

Speaker 6 It's, it's easy to have a partner who believes in us when we're crushing life. But I think when we're down bad, we really want someone to, if anyone's going to have our back, have our back.

Speaker 6 It's like, you know, people can talk shit about me all the time, but I just need to know that my partner has my back.

Speaker 6 And it seemed that would be, that was something early on that was quite evident in your guys's relationship that it didn't, you guys seemed to be quickly critical of the men.

Speaker 6 Taylor, I'm curious, what were some of the bitch tendencies that you felt that Tyler was portraying that you felt the need to speak about him in that way?

Speaker 5 Well, first off, I want to say I'm not necessarily proud of that. I think that was a reaction to what I had just seen at the bonfire.

Speaker 5 And I honestly, the whole experience on the show was such a learning lesson as far as like what maybe not to do and whatever. It was my truth.

Speaker 5 But the bitch tendencies is just a man being in his masculine, being a provider, being stable enough to make me feel safe

Speaker 5 and secure. And that's something he wasn't providing.

Speaker 6 And where do you draw the line line between finding that balance between, and that's, you know, listen, I love to have my wife think of me in the way that you want to find a partner, right?

Speaker 6 I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Speaker 6 But how do you find that balance of when he's not able to provide that, where he is down bad, he is lacking confidence, he is feeling weak, he is feel, you know, whatever those feelings that it might give you the ick or whatever it is, you know, how do you as a partner deal with that as opposed to like being the one person who he feels alienated by rather than supported by?

Speaker 5 How I dealt with it is not how I would deal with it now, Hindsight's 2020, obviously.

Speaker 5 But I think, like I said, it was a reaction because I was literally seeing what I already said was going to happen happen in front of my eyes. It was like, all bets are off.

Speaker 5 So, something you guys don't know, which I mentioned in the Todoom article, is that our very last dinner where we had our phones, I was choosing our airplane seats back and he looked at me across from the dinner table and said, I think it's best if we don't sit together on the way back.

Speaker 5 So it seemed like he had already premeditated something and kind of left me out.

Speaker 1 With the way back when?

Speaker 5 To fly back home from Plantation Island.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.
I would love to speak about that. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah, no, I didn't just look across the table. It was an open conversation because we were looking at our flights to get back home and we were having a good dinner.
It was a good night. And she,

Speaker 8 like, now I see it now. She was essentially trying to trick me into asking a trick question of like, oh, she brought up the fact that we were sitting together on the way back.

Speaker 8 And she asked me, she was like, do you think we should change that? So I didn't reach across the table or just speak that. You asked me a direct question.
And I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 8 That's a loaded question. I was like, I don't know if it's going to be good for us to have a few hours apart or sit together or not.
And I didn't say that we should change our seats once.

Speaker 8 And it was the answer to your question. And then I remember you called your friend and your friend said, oh, he just outed himself.

Speaker 8 He just told you his whole entire plan there when you're just asking me about a plane ticket for the way back.

Speaker 1 And when you say the way back, this is like half you're with Kay and you're

Speaker 1 before they go on to

Speaker 5 the day before we give up our phones and start filming. Okay.

Speaker 8 So. And we had a conversation and then and then she completely just ran with that.
But there was no point where I was like, we need to change our flights.

Speaker 8 You know, I'm not not an idiot before going on a show like this i'm not going to go a

Speaker 8 we're not leaving together that would be ridiculous this is an open conversation and it's just but you did say i think it's best if we have some no no no i didn't say that i said i don't know it might be good for us to have a few hours apart or sit together or not sit together i gave three equal opposite you know and just laid it out there we never answered the question or finished that conversation because you kind of emotionally shut down how you talk about it.

Speaker 5 Like anybody would. I'm not about to see you.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 8 I'm not saying there's nothing, nothing wrong with that. That's, that's, this is how you do your process, which is fine.
And I know that about you, but I can tell you internalized that.

Speaker 8 We never finished the conversation and we haven't talked about it till this day. But I appreciate you bringing that up.
And I'm glad you did. But that's how that conversation went.

Speaker 8 And there was no point where I would have ever looked at you and been like, there's, you know, change our seats. That would have just been the most ridiculous, stupid thing.

Speaker 6 so which is more true because at the final bonfire you talked about this is like the worst nightmare for you and you seemed authentically shocked that it ended the way it did so were you more shocked or did you feel like he kind of went in prior to starting a filming that he was already kind of checked out definitely prior to filming he was already checked out 1000% i mean i wasn't necessarily shocked in the ending i i just feel like it was a perfect storm you know what i I said pushed him to do physical things with someone else and fall for someone else.

Speaker 5 And I just kind of had to watch that. I knew what I was getting myself into.
It's not like I had never watched a show before.

Speaker 5 I just was hoping that our bond and what we had been through, me helping him with his divorce, us, like him walking away from the job and him helping with my emotional issues and trying to do all this stuff.

Speaker 5 I felt like our bond should have been stronger than a sway by a girl who does OnlyFans.

Speaker 8 I can agree with that. I thought our bonds would have been stronger too.
And there's something that my mom said, it has to do with this.

Speaker 8 Right before going on, she pulled me aside and like, she knows about our issues over the two years. And she's like, hey, honey, you know, this is wild.
I'm so glad you're doing this.

Speaker 8 Do what you need to do. But she's like, if there's a moment where stuff gets bad, she's like, don't shut down.
This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and lean into it.

Speaker 8 She's like, if there's a moment, whether it be cheating or what said or whatnot, whatnot, she's like, don't shut down. Don't just cry for the rest of the show.

Speaker 6 What did she mean by that? Like

Speaker 6 as far as you interpreted it?

Speaker 8 To me, it was if there is a clear moment that you know in your heart that the relationship is over, move. You know, move on and do what you need to do.
Use the experience to the fullest.

Speaker 8 And it kind of goes what she's talking about. And for me, that moment was.

Speaker 8 the disrespect, whether you meant disrespect or whatever, whether it's true or not true. I felt responsible to, you know, to move on.
And I just remember my mom saying that. And

Speaker 8 I did. And honestly, just haven't looked back.

Speaker 2 What was the, was the bitch tendencies, the disrespect that you're talking about? Or was it the first?

Speaker 8 First, it was her being a little bit petty about like the toilet seat and pantry stuff and groceries because I knew our relationship. And I'm just like, I didn't understand at that first bonfire.

Speaker 8 I'm like, why in her personal journey does she need to talk about, you know, my shortcomings with single guys that are hitting on her?

Speaker 8 I was like, of course, when she's sitting down with single men that are interested, they're going to feed into that.

Speaker 8 And she's a very intelligent woman and she knows that if she gives them an inch, they'll take it a mile. And so at that first bonfire, I had a feeling.

Speaker 8 I was like, oh, she's giving them an inch, you know, and

Speaker 8 the second bonfire was the point. where I actually talked to the producers and wanted to leave and go to the other villa and break up with her.

Speaker 8 But no, at the second bonfire, when she made the the comment about the bitch tendencies, I wanted it, I spoke to the producers and wanted to break up with her in that moment.

Speaker 8 And I knew in my heart, I was like, oh, this is this, there's no way we're coming back from that statement. And it wasn't just what you said.
It's not like, oh, that hurt me so bad.

Speaker 8 It was just who, who was saying it, you know, and I was like, there's, there's no way. But they were like, you know, we still got three more weeks of this process.
Just, you know, figure it out.

Speaker 8 Just wait till the final bonfire. And they just edged me to lean into the experience instead of just walking over to the other villa and being like, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 8 You know, and that's where I think a lot of the viewers have some misinterpretation on, and they don't see me talk to the guys about that, about like, oh, our relationship is over.

Speaker 8 I said that like right then and that night and several times. And so, which is fine.
And that's, and that's my choice. But that was my, my breaking point in our relationship.

Speaker 8 And then from there on, I didn't care what she said or did at the bonfires. You know, it was still emotionally taxing to watch the other bonfires, but it was just like digging the knife in.

Speaker 8 And that's why at the final bonfire, too, I was like, you don't need to convince me that I'm not your man. You don't need to put me down.
You don't need to talk about all my mistakes.

Speaker 8 You don't need to, you know, like, I understand you don't really respect me. I don't meet your requirements.
I have that understanding. Like, this is, it's just over.

Speaker 8 So the second bonfire was that moment.

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Speaker 6 Ashley, you're in your thoughts over there.

Speaker 1 I sure am.

Speaker 6 Kind of same question, obviously, early

Speaker 6 in the season. I forget his name, Big Tog, Bidlin.

Speaker 1 Logan. Logan.
Logan. Logan.

Speaker 3 When I was talking to Eric.

Speaker 1 Your arch nemesis early on.

Speaker 6 But you had some very critical things to say of Grant, which I think to any man, you know, you're you're standing next to a guy, it's early on. Maybe it's true, you know, maybe it's not.

Speaker 6 True or not, again, your partner is supposed to have your back. You guys are about to embark on the biggest test of your relationship to date.

Speaker 6 Why say what you said at the time?

Speaker 3 Yeah. So the whole conversation with calling him arrogant was, which I said what I said, but.
They cut it because I, at first, I said, Grant, I love you, but you are a little arrogant sometimes.

Speaker 1 So, I still said it. Yeah, yeah.
I'll be honest,

Speaker 6 I would have not heard the I love you. Right.

Speaker 6 I just would have heard the arrogant. It's more you standing next to a guy who clearly was attracted to you.
And he was that guy, you know, Logan, was it? He was just swinging his dick around.

Speaker 6 So, yeah,

Speaker 6 the I love you would have felt flat.

Speaker 3 I'm very sarcastic.

Speaker 1 I have very dry humor. Okay.

Speaker 10 I said it.

Speaker 3 I kind of meant it, but he is like, but that's something I am obviously into. If I chose Grant and Logan.

Speaker 1 If you don't know me, then sorry. I'm confident, absolutely, but I don't look at myself above anyone else.

Speaker 1 That's why after hearing that, damn, I mean, I had already been dealing with the belittling and the masculating and the

Speaker 6 truth. I mean, listen, my whole life, I have gotten the, my version was I'm confident.
And some of my versions is I'm cocky, you know?

Speaker 6 I think every confident person who walks walks this planet has been told that they're cocky, right? And it's a matter of perception, right?

Speaker 1 You don't want to hear your girlfriend saying that on TV before you do it. I don't think it was a good move.
Immediately.

Speaker 1 But even before that, before we started filming, that like when we would meet the other guys, she would say little sly comments.

Speaker 1 Like it was just becoming more and more clear that, yeah, Ashley has been loyal in some aspects, but not loyal emotionally.

Speaker 1 at all not while talking to other guys not while talking to other girls constantly bringing up the past like that's That's what ultimately broke me down.

Speaker 2 So what did you hear at the first bonfire? Because we interviewed Natalie. She said that you came back from the first bonfire and basically you said your relationship was over.

Speaker 2 That's why she felt it was okay for her to start pursuing you. And then she said when she watched it back, she was shocked at how nothing it was.

Speaker 2 So what happened at that first bonfire that really set you up?

Speaker 1 I'm not going to lie. I don't remember exactly what the first bonfire clip was.

Speaker 1 What I do know is what kind of set me on a different path was hearing her say that I'm never going to let go of this resentment. I don't want that guy.
And to me, why the hell am I here?

Speaker 1 Why am I chasing you then if you're never going to let go of this resentment? Why have I been busting my ass? Like, why did I put myself here if you're never going to let go?

Speaker 3 That was exactly why we were there.

Speaker 1 I know that's why we were there.

Speaker 6 And I want you to think about it before you answer.

Speaker 6 There's a theme I've noticed with you is that when someone doubts you, your response is usually to prove them right, not prove them wrong.

Speaker 1 That's an interesting take. I don't know.

Speaker 6 You know, it's almost less like, well, if you think I'm going to do it, fuck it. I'm going to do it.
As opposed to think what you want of me, but I am who I am. I'm going to show you who I am.

Speaker 6 You have used, you know, whether it's Ashley doubting you or other people doubting you as an excuse to justify bad behavior.

Speaker 1 I definitely didn't. think that way.
It was more of like the straw breaking the camel's back.

Speaker 6 Well, I know you didn't think it that way because you would have well right differently but i'm just wondering like if i'm saying this to you now like it comes across that way and like do you think there's some truth to that and tyler is itching to say i am

Speaker 8 what do you got just from watching you go through the experience like i remember the first bonfire i remember and it's interesting to see how you operate when you get very emotional um i feel like you like to make decisions when you're emotional and you know we talked about journaling a lot and like how you've never really like sat down and just gone through the emotions and then made the decision.

Speaker 8 So I feel like after the first bonfire, emotionally feeled, came back, felt validated, had that conversation with Natalie.

Speaker 8 And then the next day, he had a moment to calm down and then slip back into, you know, so it was just a lot of kind of back and forth, you know, but I did. It's time.

Speaker 8 But it's something deeper, you know what I mean? Cause you love, you love them both. I don't know.
You've said you love them both, but like it just takes you some time.

Speaker 1 And i feel like you make decisions a little bit bit quick and i felt that happened with with natalie yeah i mean i definitely didn't have an itch to prove her right by any means it was it was more i mean no i doubt i very much doubt that you were you consciously was

Speaker 6 doing but just the way a both your actions and then your justifications for your actions very much comes across that way

Speaker 2 seems it seems as if like you hear her say i'm never going to get rid of this resentment that it's like well if i can show her that i can make it through three weeks weeks, you know, there's nothing else for her to hold on to because I'm proving her wrong.

Speaker 1 I think there was a piece going into the show where, I mean, we both knew that we weren't getting exactly what we needed, anyways, right?

Speaker 1 And I think hearing her say, I'm never going to let go of that resentment, it was kind of fueling like, damn it,

Speaker 1 even if I do make it through this,

Speaker 1 let's say I don't open up to any of these girls. We get to the end, and she miraculously actually lets go and forgives me finally.

Speaker 1 These other characteristics that I'm experiencing from her, are they enough for me? And

Speaker 1 that was my biggest battle. And yeah,

Speaker 1 I know I say that.

Speaker 3 That's too bad you didn't have sex for three and a half weeks.

Speaker 1 Anyways,

Speaker 1 that was my biggest battle was all these other things. And then this,

Speaker 1 I say that was the biggest reason, but it's because it's what started me. questioning my relationship with Ashley.
Well, you questioned it.

Speaker 7 I'd like to interject too, because after every bonfire and before, the guys have a lot of time to speak to each other about what we saw and how we all view those situations.

Speaker 7 And within the first one or two bonfires between Breon, Tyler, Grant, and myself, we were pretty much convinced that what Tyler was seeing, what Grant was seeing, and how they were speaking about each other's relationships, that they were pretty much checked out and ready to lean into the experience.

Speaker 3 So you saw me bawling my eyes out to Alexa and you saw I was checked out.

Speaker 7 No, no, no, it's how Grant was speaking about your relationship okay no not at all okay he took

Speaker 7 he took the arrogant comment and he took the arrogant comment and the why did god give me this piece of shit comment but he cheated on me before the goal you're not saying grant is right at all you're saying i don't think you guys should be in that relationship right yeah and that's the assertions both of them made within the first one or two bonfires and that's the thing for alexa and i we went on and we didn't want to disrespect each other or speak poorly about each other because that is where your mind starts to go when you hear these things and you can't communicate with the person.

Speaker 7 And I'm not saying their actions are right. Their actions are right.
It's how they were speaking about each other. They were pretty much ready to move on.

Speaker 7 And I think they both should allow themselves to do that on both sides of the house.

Speaker 6 Ashley, do you have any thoughts or feelings about what I asked Brand, my perception of how he handles people not believing in him?

Speaker 3 I mean, yeah, I would say that's pretty accurate. I think it was really disappointing when I watched the show because I obviously didn't see what he saw at his first bonfire.

Speaker 3 So I'm being told by him and the other guys basically their recollection of the first bonfire.

Speaker 3 So I'm like sitting here for the last nine months being like, holy shit, I just got caught up just talking mad shit about him.

Speaker 3 He originally told me that my first clip was me talking to one of the guys. So I, this whole time thought like, damn, like, I'm going to look so bad.

Speaker 3 I was just like shitting on him to one of the guys. And then I watched the show back and what you said, Natalie said, and see that it really was like nothing to me.

Speaker 3 The first one, it was just like me being emotional, venting to Alexa. And that's what really like set it off was very disappointing.

Speaker 1 It wasn't even just that, though. You got to remember, yes, I saw this clip, but I also had a whole house full of producers and interviews where

Speaker 1 it was pretty much clear, Grant, that girl doesn't even like you. Like, like she is.
over there just dogging on you. And this is, you know, voices I'm hearing from other people, from producers.

Speaker 1 And the guys that I just met, they're like, yeah, I mean, mean when we met her I mean she was still you know she wasn't really talking nice about you right so I have all of this and then I had the clip of her saying I'm never gonna let go of this resentment blah blah blah I mean I was beginning to really question I was like damn do I even want this is this Do I want this for myself?

Speaker 1 I don't think so. Shit.
And then I was going back and forth and back and forth. I mean, I lost my mind.
I can easily see both sides, right?

Speaker 6 But my question for you is when you're hearing all these, you know, whether it's producers, whether it's the temptresses, you know, none of these people know know you and know Ashley like you guys knew each other.

Speaker 6 And so my question to you, did it ever occur to you to maybe acknowledge why she had so much resentment?

Speaker 1 Of course, I knew why.

Speaker 6 Sure.

Speaker 6 And so I guess my question, you know, in terms of, in terms of believing your darkest fears or believing, and again, as a man, I understand what it feels like to have your partner belittle you, especially in public.

Speaker 6 Like it sucks.

Speaker 1 But at the same time, again, for you, at least there's a lot of like, it's very easy to understand why ashley might feel and have so much anger and resentment towards you but it never really seemed to click like i i think i made it didn't until that's what i was saying you you asked me like when did i like learn my lesson if i ever did and that whole experience i never looked in enough where i was like okay like am i treating her the absolute best i could right like and yeah we we would break up get back together break up get back together but when we would get back together i never actually changed anything inside of me right like i i never actually did the deep work after the show.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying. That I'm beyond proud of myself for how I acted, how I changed, how I worked on myself.

Speaker 1 Are you proud of how you're acting the last several weeks?

Speaker 1 I'm not proud of letting all of the opinions and whatever you were doing get to me. I shouldn't have let it steal my piece and it didn't need to.
So no,

Speaker 1 I'm not proud of that. I'm happy I finally am realizing that it doesn't matter what everyone else is thinking.
And even on the show is what I was letting happen. What are the producers thinking?

Speaker 1 What are the guys thinking? What, you know, in this interview,

Speaker 1 what is it going to look like? I mean, am I going crazy, like really trying to chase this girl? Or am I meant for someone else? I don't know.

Speaker 6 I joked when we were talking about the show that you and Breon kind of made it seem like you guys were a victim of your dicks.

Speaker 1 That was crazy. It was just like.
You guys didn't see a lot, though. Okay, well, that's why you fill in the gaps.

Speaker 6 It was just like, you know, man, I just just like, oh, one of my, my dick wants to have sex, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so for the past year, I was totally convinced that the first three episodes would be me just crying, like not knowing what the hell to do. Okay.
And those were all my interviews. Like,

Speaker 1 it was a joke. Oh, Grant's crying again.
But like,

Speaker 1 I was so miserable, miserably confused, really, is what I was dealing with.

Speaker 1 No, I don't blame my dick for me fucking Natalie.

Speaker 1 Obviously.

Speaker 1 And I don't feel like I'm a victim.

Speaker 1 I don't feel like I'm. Well, yeah, because the edit was obviously to instill those emotions in people.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I don't feel like I'm a victim of Ashley.

Speaker 1 I continuously put myself back in this situation with Ashley as she did with me. Sure.
We did that back and forth. I did that to myself.
I don't blame her for me feeling a type of way.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? It was my own fault for reacting.

Speaker 6 Ashley, I will get to you.

Speaker 6 You know, listen, the man has his flaws. He's acknowledged some of them, but you kept going back, you know, and you seem as an intelligent, smart, self-aware woman.

Speaker 6 But like, you know, we all have to like take some personal accountability for at some point.

Speaker 6 And I say this a lot to the people who ask my advice or call in, like, there's always a point, relationship, situationship, whatever, where it's just like, now it's just kind of on you, you know?

Speaker 6 Yeah. Now it's just like, even if the other person,

Speaker 6 whatever they do, you know, who you're dating, right? And you, you knew who you were dating. Have you learned your lesson about, you know, these second, third, and fourth chances?

Speaker 6 Because, you know, kind of the same thing I would say to Grant, meaning like at some point, I understand the anger. I understand the frustration.

Speaker 6 But it's like, what's the point of getting back together only to just make this man feel smaller or less than and kind of kick him, even if he does deserve it?

Speaker 3 That's, that's why we eventually ultimately broke up.

Speaker 1 Like he very, very

Speaker 3 much pursued me for months, and I was just not interested in it. And I, but I was like, still letting it happen, which that's on me.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm fully aware.

Speaker 3 And then we got back together, and I just was never going to get past it. He did everything he could.
And that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 I wanted to, when this all came out and when we were allowed to talk about it all, I wanted to be like, you know what? He put in the, I wanted to be able to justify why I would have taken him back.

Speaker 1 Then why would you start by posting Danny acting like you're in a relationship, knowing that let, I mean,

Speaker 1 two days prior, you were texting me saying, I love you and I miss you. And what are we doing? Literally your birthday.

Speaker 3 And I texted you. Actually, I hope this year brings you great things.
Love you.

Speaker 1 If you were, if you were invested in it and you were letting me pursue you, yes, you were absolutely breaking me down. And yes, I was taking it because I knew that this is what I wanted.

Speaker 1 And I was trying to prove that to you. And I didn't back off at all.
I never went back to what I was doing. When you broke up with me, yeah, I lost it again.
But like, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 It's like, I would have loved to have justified taking you back and being like, yeah, this man changed. And I felt that in the relationship, but I felt as though I still couldn't let it go.

Speaker 3 Should have been left at that period.

Speaker 1 You broke up with me and then the day after begged for me back. Right.

Speaker 3 And we do that. That's what we do.
And then you did it probably the next week, but we're in the clear now. We're done.

Speaker 1 I'd say so.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But what you've done since we broke up till now proves to me that you have still not changed.

Speaker 1 What do you mean? I'm not dating anyone. I'm not cheating on you.

Speaker 3 You're trolling me, bitching me out while other girls are in your bed. You're like losing your shit on me.
I just can't.

Speaker 6 I think maybe she's talking about what seems to be a more reactive.

Speaker 1 She's talking about what I'm feeling in my own self. I haven't attacked her at all.

Speaker 4 Are you

Speaker 1 okay? Please give me one example real quick. How have I attacked you?

Speaker 3 Any of the recorded TikToks of you?

Speaker 2 I did see that TikTok where you called and she was yelling.

Speaker 1 I've seen it. I've heard it.
Me raising my voice was not valid, but the words I was saying, absolutely. You did not call the mother of my child for 45 minutes crying, worried about me.

Speaker 2 Why was that a bad thing to do?

Speaker 1 No, that wasn't a bad thing to do. Like, like, I appreciate that.
And texting me and saying you're like, I like the call, but it was because she was texting me. She was watching the live.

Speaker 1 That's not what she... What?

Speaker 3 She was watching the live. I hung up the phone on you because I watched her text message come through.

Speaker 1 This is before that. Right.
This is before that. I reached out.

Speaker 11 I said, hey, keep an eye on Grant.

Speaker 3 I'm really worried about him and your mental health because you do come to me and say things and I'm worried about your mental health.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I don't want you to do something and that's on me.

Speaker 1 So I've reached out.

Speaker 3 I texted her and she called me. And we talked for 45 minutes that we're worried about you, that we need you to get off social media for your daughter's sake.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 The fact that she's posting and acting like I was nothing and she got back with me for 0.2 seconds and all these other things downplaying this intense six months we had is what made me say what I said.

Speaker 1 I was saying, Ashley, just be real. Stop like pretending like we're nothing.
Stop pretending like you're dating Danny. You guys never even dated.

Speaker 1 Like why are you acting like we didn't have these six months of intense growth together and trying to make it work? Why are you acting like it nothing?

Speaker 9 I'm throwing around six months.

Speaker 3 Like, I don't know what number you're trying to prove.

Speaker 1 When I saw you at the bar till February.

Speaker 6 That was.

Speaker 6 Why is that so important to you? I only asked is because, like, and I believed her.

Speaker 1 I believed her. I believed her about what? I believed that her intentions were true.
And I believed that like we actually had a connection that was real.

Speaker 6 I don't think anyone can deny you guys have a connection.

Speaker 1 I mean, like the opposite of that.

Speaker 6 Yeah, but love is not hate. And you guys, there's, there's a lot of feeling here.
So like no one can deny the intensity, the anger, the hurt, the passion, which is why it

Speaker 1 blustered me, which is why it made me react.

Speaker 3 I didn't do anything to you. I didn't come out and say anything.

Speaker 3 Really bad about you. I said you tried and I couldn't forgive you.

Speaker 1 And that was the end of my life. I was not flaunting this Danny guy in front of me, too.

Speaker 3 I was hanging out with Danny.

Speaker 1 it was it was it was like the but it i mean it does seem like listen i and i get i just felt like she was fake i just felt like it was all fake and like wow why did i ever introduce our our relationship like i she had been convincing me that she's this loyal girl and this and that but she's never talked to me about me do we do we it doesn't matter it doesn't matter do we agree that you wanted to get back with her after the show after danny whatever there was at some point show's over you pursued her correct she was unsure giving your history.

Speaker 6 Finally, she said yes. And then like she couldn't get over it, as she stated.
Right. So like, what version of that is inaccurate to you?

Speaker 6 Because I'm hearing, listen, like, literally, you guys have had a toxic relationship. You've both acknowledged your issues.
There's a lot of pain. From just our.
position, it just sounds like, man,

Speaker 6 you guys were too far gone. And whatever love was there, there was too much hurt on both sides for it to work out.
Ashley came to that realization.

Speaker 6 she ended it and while i understand you put in a lot of work it was very and like i get it right like you've again like i said earlier you did all this work you and it's like you're you were ready but she just wasn't ready to forgive you and then ultimately she chose to leave why does that make anything you did in those six months less than regardless if she starts danny afterwards or whatever she's doing like what does it have to do with whatever growth that you committed to regardless if ashley wants you back or not.

Speaker 1 From the beginning,

Speaker 1 after I messed up initially, I had been just fighting for her respect back. And it felt like no matter what happened, I couldn't get it.
After she broke up with me, February, whatever it was,

Speaker 1 and receiving the messages of her acknowledging my growth, acknowledging the man I became, acknowledging how much effort I put in, acknowledging that she broke me down and she was sorry about it.

Speaker 1 Like that meant a lot to me, even though I was a little too scared to get back into it. Right.
Because, like you said, it's, I mean, it seemed like it was too far gone at that point.

Speaker 1 So when I heard her downplaying what happened, it was important to me because, damn, I had been fighting for your approval this whole time. What did you do? And now you're

Speaker 3 what was that? What did you, what did you want from me? Like, what did you want me to do on social media?

Speaker 1 I don't know, not act like we weren't ever together. Like, not, I don't know.
I never acted like we weren't together. Anything but what you were doing, honesty.

Speaker 1 The last thing I expected was for you to act like nothing happened, was for you to act like the grant on the show was the same grant that I was

Speaker 1 with you.

Speaker 3 I was in the school that Netflix released, where I like went back to probably three times now, where I say he did everything he could, but I couldn't move past it. It was not enough acknowledgement.

Speaker 1 I've already said it, and I'll say it again. I was wrong for expecting anything of you.
I let the noise get to my head. The past two weeks have been hell for me.
Now,

Speaker 1 I realize it. I don't expect anything from you.
I don't need to prove myself. You know what we had.
You know what I gave you. You know what you took from me, from my spirit.
Okay. And that's it.

Speaker 1 Now we're here. We don't need to talk about it anymore.
And I coming from the guy who keeps fucking talking, right? But like, I don't, I'm, I'm done with it. I'm done with it.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And I don't need anything. I was just explaining your question was like, why was it important to me at the time? That's why it was so important to me.
That's what made me lose my shit.

Speaker 6 I felt like, Taylor, you wanted to say that.

Speaker 5 I mean, it's old news now, but I guess still relevant.

Speaker 5 In my eyes, I'm not justifying anything we said or did not say as far as talking shit, but you're going onto a reality television show to figure out your relationship.

Speaker 5 A lot of the conversations that they cut and spliced for the bonfires were conversations that were 25, 30 minutes long that just weren't talking shit the whole time.

Speaker 5 They're doing stuff to get a reaction. How else can I explain to somebody? Yeah, we're just not really matching up.
They're like, well, why aren't you guys matching up? Well, because of this.

Speaker 5 Okay, well, tell me more. You're there to get a different perspective and have conversations about your relationship.
Yes, I didn't necessarily need to say bitch tendencies.

Speaker 5 That was after my bonfire and I was clearly very heated.

Speaker 5 But for Ashley and I both, we were just kind of trying to be as vulnerable as we can be.

Speaker 5 Yes, we maybe didn't talk about it in the best way, but how else were we going to talk about the downfalls of the relationship?

Speaker 8 Very difficult. And I had to go through that experience too.

Speaker 1 So did he. So did he.

Speaker 8 And it was a very challenging experience to. figure out how to talk about your baggage and being 100% respectful at the same time.
It's It's almost a trick and it's nasty.

Speaker 8 And, you know, I thought about that, you know, when you said that on the bonfire clip too. So, you know, I think that's a valid point, but I think it can be done.

Speaker 8 And there's a couple people that did do it and a couple of people that didn't. And that's just what it is.

Speaker 6 I guess to that point, there is a balance between, you know, just acknowledging your unhappiness with certain things and

Speaker 6 a decision to go into how much detail you want to go into, you know, but at some point, whether you're being vulnerable or whether you're on TV or whether you're talking with friends, there's just a point where your partner is going to decide whether you crossed the line or not.

Speaker 9 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 You left the island with Kay.

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 2 Why aren't you still together today?

Speaker 8 Oh, that's great. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I haven't really talked about this yet.

Speaker 8 Just because, again, I'm trying to be respectful, you know, for the other party involved.

Speaker 8 But, you know, I knew as soon as the bonfire clip, my breaking point essentially, when I moved on, just leaning into the experience, like it was such a fun experience with Kay, you know what I mean?

Speaker 8 And you're in this fantasy bubble. They feed you perfect dates.
They feed you everything romantic. And I definitely leaned into that experience.
And I feel like she leaned into that experience too.

Speaker 8 But I had conversations with her, you know, after our second date about, you know, physical stuff, about like, hey, this is kind of how I operate and how I do do things, you know.

Speaker 8 And she was very respectful. And so we just kind of like just sunk into the experience, played around, went on dates.
I kind of use that as a coping

Speaker 8 mechanism to forget about, you know, this relationship ending. And that's something I saw watching it.
I just kind of like checked out and was like, all right, we're going to focus on this.

Speaker 8 You know, but then on our final date, as you know, the prize of the final date is being off-camera.

Speaker 8 You know, and she just kind of told me a little bit more about her career and, you know, what she does. And she withheld very important information.

Speaker 6 Which is,

Speaker 8 she's just OnlyFans model. Okay.

Speaker 1 I did not know that. Yeah.

Speaker 8 And I didn't know any idea.

Speaker 6 Do you have certain feelings about that?

Speaker 8 Yeah, I'm very jealous in that sense, you know, you know, that and that was a deal breaker right away.

Speaker 8 And that was difficult because what they don't show on the show is that that night, the final date. That it's that morning, actually.
She says, hey, by the way, I think you should know this.

Speaker 8 Says it to me. We say goodbye.
The next time I see her, it's at the bonfire.

Speaker 8 So, I had a decision to make to be like, Hmm, okay, am I just going to flip the script and no one's gonna know what happened or anything? And just be like, nah, Kay is out of here.

Speaker 8 I felt like that was a bad move. I was like, Finish it out, you know, finish the experience.
People are gonna think what they're gonna think.

Speaker 8 And I just was like, I just didn't want to do that on the show.

Speaker 6 We did speak with Natalie yesterday, and she mentioned that when the show wrapped, that you, you, and Natalie and Kay kind of all hung out a little bit.

Speaker 1 Is that accurate? For about

Speaker 1 two days, two days.

Speaker 6 And what was the context, I guess, specifically for you and Kay?

Speaker 6 Because you're kind of suggesting that, like, once you kind of found out her truth, you were more like, okay, I don't want to like embarrass this person.

Speaker 8 No, no, no, it wasn't like I had, it's not like I'm judging your character. I'm like, I can't be around you.
You know what I mean? It's like, I'm not going to have a relationship with you.

Speaker 8 And we both.

Speaker 6 So you guys just kind of hung out as friends. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I mean, it was, it was still like, you know, a little rolling.

Speaker 6 I guess kay gonna go on a live and be like we no no sure

Speaker 8 yeah cuddling's about all we did but uh it's got a nice ring to it yeah jesus um but no those couple days after you know we had a the same flight home and so we were going to be on the same plane ride together ironically about our conversation and so it just kind of fizzled out and she also has her reasons which she's publicly spoken to like she felt like i wasn't ready for anything and you know i probably didn't meet a few of her requirements so it wasn't one side you and kay pretty much it never really happened no no it didn't um

Speaker 6 i don't know okay i wasn't sure if you had any responses to that do you think you have a hard time being alone

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 8 you do yeah you're a relationship guy and that's okay you know that's that is difficult because i don't and maybe you can help me with this understand this because i get this a lot you know i being married very young, I love being in a relationship.

Speaker 8 I live sharing a life and building a life with somebody. And I, and I do adore that.
And I've always felt like I've been able to deal with character flaws and issues with someone.

Speaker 8 And a lot of times it's been beneficial to have a partner to help me go through that as long as they're understanding and it's acceptable. So I feel like I'm definitely a relationship guy.

Speaker 8 I don't know how to answer your question directly of like, is it a hard time being alone?

Speaker 6 Like whenever I've been on a break, like we didn't speak to each other for a couple months or even after the show, you know it's like there's never a moment i'm sitting there like weeping and crying that you know i'm just alone and broken you know but you know here let me let me maybe help you yeah answer that question because i think just i think all of us like people we don't like we're just we're we we need connection whether it's our partners or family our community our friends like we are not we're not a species that's meant to be alone right i think also in adult life again like and back to what i asked grant and i think specifically with men um it's a it's a thing where i think men love having girlfriends and a lot of men don't like being boyfriends.

Speaker 6 You know what I mean by that?

Speaker 6 You know, because as a guy, like, listen, having a girlfriend, you know, it's like you got that emotional support, got someone to go on a date night with, you got that regular sex, hopefully, you know, it's just like, it's just, you know, some movie night, you know, it's just someone to bounce ideas off.

Speaker 6 That, that's all great. And that incoming benefit of having that partner is great.

Speaker 6 Then there's the being a boyfriend, which is just like, and, and part of just being a boyfriend or a girlfriend is the whatever, you know, for me, like the, my favorite thing about being a husband and being a dad are like the sacrifices I have to make for my family, you know?

Speaker 6 It's like, I don't look at not being, I don't look at, I don't go out, well, whether it's the bar or wherever. Not that I can't, like, I choose to be with my family, you know?

Speaker 6 There might be isolated moments where it'd be, you know, like, that could have been fun and that would have been nice. But like, I like the opportunity to like make sacrifices for my family.

Speaker 6 As an individual, though, I mean, like yourself or like a lot of people, I was, I had three serious relationships in my 20s, right?

Speaker 6 And then in most of my 30s, I was single because like part of it is it's like, you know, again, when you're younger, like, we don't know. It's like, again, you're, you're 19.

Speaker 6 You're just like, your baseline for why you get into a relationship is I feel something. You know, and then we date, we have relationships end, you know, we hurt each other.

Speaker 6 We have, and then for me, you know, it was more like the difference between, you know, granted, I wasn't crying because I was alone, but I hated the feeling. I hated not having someone.

Speaker 6 But the difference between like 23 year old me and 33 year old me was 23 year old me was like, I don't care. I just like, let's date, you know, like, it's almost like kind of like good enough.

Speaker 6 And not to disrespect anyone, but it was like there were things I was willing to accept that ultimately I didn't like.

Speaker 6 33 year old me was more like, you seem great and we can have a lot of fun together, but like, this isn't for me. And I said no to a lot of good things in the pursuit of great things.

Speaker 6 And so I, and in that period, I had to like work on myself alone.

Speaker 6 Instead of having the girlfriend to bounce ideas on, I got a therapist, you know, instead of, or talked to some of my guy friends and allowed myself to be vulnerable with men.

Speaker 6 in a way that I wasn't normally comfortable being vulnerable with, you know, and so it's, it's kind of getting used to being alone. No one likes alone.

Speaker 6 So like in my 30s, it was more like, yeah, I fucking hate this, but like, it's still a better place for me to be than saying yes to something I know won't work.

Speaker 8 Does that make sense? You know, it does.

Speaker 8 And I like the part where you're talking about the sacrifices and loving those sacrifices because being married young for those years, like I absolutely adored it. So I feel like I do idolize.

Speaker 8 the marriage, you know, the team. And I feel like that's something that I still stand behind right now.
And it's, and it's hard for me to, to give up.

Speaker 8 And I do think that I am lacking a bit of what you're talking about, though, about, you know, going outside of that, because I feel like I have been very blessed in my relationships to, you know, and, you know, even our relationship, like just the emotional availability.

Speaker 8 And I'm sure you can speak to that too. Like, you know, that's something that's great.
So I don't know. It's just hard to answer directly.
Like I am

Speaker 8 a relationship guy.

Speaker 6 And would it benefit me being alone?

Speaker 8 I can't answer that. You know what I mean? And I feel like everyone's going to have their opinions, and everyone already does.

Speaker 1 People have their opinions.

Speaker 6 You're recently announced a new relationship? Yes, sir.

Speaker 8 How new is it?

Speaker 8 Started officially dating in September.

Speaker 6 Okay. When did the show end?

Speaker 1 End of May. Okay.

Speaker 6 And were you mostly single in

Speaker 6 that period of time?

Speaker 8 Yeah, and that was part of the reason we had to wait till September was because she is very understanding, you know, and I had a lot of shit with Taylor.

Speaker 8 I had to get her up to speed on like the ex-wife, on the show, a lot of issues I had.

Speaker 8 And so I made sure in those first few months that I laid out my whole life and I was like, hey, this is, this is me and this is it. You know what I mean? And this is not perfect, you know?

Speaker 8 And then, you know, she shared her story.

Speaker 8 And then we just started hanging out more and more and more and more.

Speaker 8 And then it took us a couple months to really make an educated decision if we should like actually do this and become exclusive and lock it in. And that's what we did in September.

Speaker 8 And then now we're just trying to navigate this whole fucking show.

Speaker 1 Did she watch the show?

Speaker 8 She said she wasn't going to watch it, but four hours of it being out, she's all

Speaker 8 yeah. Well, she went through certain clips and everything.
And, you know, I have never seen so much strength in someone to be able to watch that and do that and know that that's coming.

Speaker 8 And even how she supports me now through the backlash of all this

Speaker 1 you know and still see all my flaws you know it's it's um incredible but getting kind of off track Nashville's a small town have you seen this yeah he paraded her around the gym two weeks after we got back people what paraded her around our gym that we went to for two and a half years I would love to talk about this

Speaker 6 when you say people who are people

Speaker 1 paraded

Speaker 1 showed her off but who are people like they're in the gym

Speaker 1 So a small community.

Speaker 6 Sorry, I'm not giving up.

Speaker 1 Tyler Island is her current girlfriend.

Speaker 5 He actually, why I said earlier, when he said he pointed out Kay, he pointed out Lauren to me while we were working out at the gym together. But I had already seen her and known about her.

Speaker 1 He. He.
I would love to talk about her. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can I speak to her? Well, because I wasn't going to interrupt. Yeah.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 two weeks after we got back home, they were working out together and they started from that point forward working out every single day together.

Speaker 5 So I would have to see that that was really awesome okay

Speaker 8 nice go ahead okay that is would be purely evil that is literally what you did you started working out so i'm saying if you're if you're saying what you're saying is true that i took another girl and i'm an evil person and decided that i needed to just use this girl to make you feel something personal and i paraded her around the gym just to make you feel more like shit or whatever you think my motive might be you did work out with her at the gym yeah So we, she, I've been going to the gym for two years.

Speaker 8 She has, and Lauren, my girlfriend, has been going there for about three years. Okay.
We've all seen each other. It's the gym we go to.
She asked me to work out with her two weeks after the show.

Speaker 8 She was there, saw us working out, and there was no possible way that we were working out every single day together. That I understand, hold on.
I understand it's hurtful.

Speaker 8 And what you saw, I acknowledge that. That was not comfortable to see, especially everything that we went through.
Me working out with someone else, else.

Speaker 8 It's seeing me with anybody else anywhere, whether we're dating or not dating. I understand that.
That is so difficult. But you take it so personally and you think it's all about you.

Speaker 8 I am literally just working out with someone new at my gym.

Speaker 5 Who happens to be your girlfriend now?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 8 But at then we wasn't.

Speaker 6 But is it possible it wasn't about you?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I'm not saying it's about me. I'm saying we just went off of Temptation Island.

Speaker 2 If he did point her out while they were together.

Speaker 8 No, we talked about her. She pointed out she was like, wow, she looks good.

Speaker 5 No, you mentioned that she was staring at us working out together.

Speaker 8 Oh, and then you pointed out how she looks good.

Speaker 1 Exactly. I was like, oh, yeah, she's a pretty girl.
Hold on.

Speaker 8 It's, it's one of those another organic conversations that I feel like it's being framed in a way. Tissue.

Speaker 1 All right. No, let's talk about please.
There's a tissue over there.

Speaker 1 Where? Oh, I did not know these were down here.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Please continue.

Speaker 8 No, no, but I understand that hurt you. And you can talk about how that hurt you, but I was not actively trying to be malicious and tear you down.
We were done after that second bonfire. I moved on.

Speaker 8 We live within a few miles of each other. I'm sorry that there's spilled paint and casualties, but

Speaker 8 I did not make a conscious decision to be evil towards you.

Speaker 8 Because if what you were saying was true, that I intentionally paraded her around just to get at you, I'm sorry, but like, just humble yourself a little bit.

Speaker 1 It's not about you.

Speaker 8 I was done with you. We moved on.

Speaker 2 But can you acknowledge how it can be hurtful?

Speaker 1 Oh, I said that

Speaker 8 several times. I've already said that.
That is painful. I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but but you still did it.

Speaker 5 Like you had no

Speaker 6 why not just like find a new gym?

Speaker 8 Well, she said that she was going to a new gym.

Speaker 5 Yeah, he they pushed me out basically because every time the gym is my safe space, that's where I get my mental health right. A lot of my friends work there.
I've been going there for multiple years.

Speaker 5 So it was the fact that that was no longer my safe space. And now I got a surprise every time I walked in there.
Oh, there they are together. Oh, there they are in the car together.

Speaker 5 Oh, they're leaving together. Oh, okay.
So I think I'm I'm just going to save myself from this and choose me and go somewhere else to a gym that I literally hate.

Speaker 5 I would love to work out at that time.

Speaker 6 So regardless of whether he deliberately tried to do it to make you feel bad, at a minimum, you thought you deserved a little bit more consideration and empathy for the fact that clearly he was moved on and maybe you weren't.

Speaker 5 Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 8 And I can agree with that. And, you know, we had that conversation about you go to the gym at this time because I literally was like, I totally understand.
That sucks.

Speaker 8 you know what i mean but this is my gym and the city i live in and this is just the uh the dynamics of a breakup that real adults have to figure out you've been through breakups you've been through breakups you got to figure that stuff out new gyms new places and that's what that was but when you boil that down to a single comment that i paraded it's someone around to be evil towards you that is just what i'm trying to just unpack and dissect that it's not true you wish you would have maybe handled it differently Well, I think if I was acting out of my full maturity, I should have sat down and said, hey, I'm going to be training with a girl at the gym.

Speaker 8 Would you want to not be there at that time? But to me, that just sounds so

Speaker 8 like so much. I mean, what?

Speaker 1 It could actually work, but like it could have been a constant.

Speaker 8 No, it could have saved her that.

Speaker 1 Or just like you could have been like, fine.

Speaker 8 So let me say this. I wish I would have done anything to spare her from that emotion of seeing that.
Of course.

Speaker 8 I don't wish anything evil upon you or you to feel that way. So if there's anything that I could have done, I wish I would have done it.

Speaker 1 Ashley?

Speaker 10 what do you feel? I'm just emotional.

Speaker 6 I understand. What are you feeling right now?

Speaker 3 Just all very overwhelming. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What do you feel like is hitting you the hardest here right now?

Speaker 3 It's just like sad watching this all play out. Like this was never what I wanted and it just sucks seeing how much hate he he gets, but it also sucks watching him, like, do it to himself.
And I,

Speaker 1 just sad. Can I ask you something, really? How do you feel about what you've been posting?

Speaker 1 Do you know what it's been doing to me?

Speaker 1 And it's a little bit rhetorical because I know, you know, but

Speaker 1 I want to hear something real from you. How are you? able to do this like what like you're not maybe not mentioning saying oh fuck grant

Speaker 1 but how do you feel about the way that you've been talking about me and

Speaker 1 your

Speaker 1 tone about me after what we had?

Speaker 3 I don't think what I'm doing compares to what you've been doing.

Speaker 3 And I don't think what I'm doing is like a direct dig to make you look better or worse. I am who I am.
I'm very sarcastic. I'm like joking with it.
I'm just trying to like

Speaker 1 run with the narrative. It doesn't really mean anything then.
No.

Speaker 6 Do you think it's possible?

Speaker 6 I kind of see ashley's point of view here a little better than i'm seeing yours doesn't mean i'm not trying to invalidate yours and this whole experience for you guys which is challenging because here we are you're you're you're trying to deal with real emotions right yeah like going on the bachelor right i got up emotionally from that experience and then it was like yeah you're gonna be on tv which is kind of exciting and like by the way like just my my pov like you all went on a tv show you all kind of want to be a little famous that's cool it's fine you know there's a lot of people who wouldn't have done what you guys did.

Speaker 6 And that's also fine. But like for other people or anyone to like, who wants to be more famous than the other person, it's like, come on.

Speaker 6 That being said, like, I get that, like, you had an experience.

Speaker 6 Like I said, like, when I, what I've really picked up on in this conversation is that six months of fighting for Ashley was very meaningful to you.

Speaker 6 And like on a personal level, there was a lot of like, you know, it meant a lot to you, you know,

Speaker 6 but it, it meant maybe less to Ashley.

Speaker 1 So that

Speaker 1 is what has been killing me up until recently. It's because it made it seem like everything was in vain, like it was for nothing.
Oh, maybe, maybe it was. Like, does she owe you?

Speaker 6 Does she owe me anything?

Speaker 1 No, she doesn't owe me anything.

Speaker 3 But to sit here and say it was in vain, why did you post a video saying how much you love Natalie and that was your biggest regret?

Speaker 1 Was losing her?

Speaker 1 So after the show, I heard rumors that Ashley was dating Danny after her and I broke up.

Speaker 1 I asked her about it and she said, no, no, don't worry. There's nothing going on.
I love you. Right.
And then I see her that same night at this premiere party we had.

Speaker 1 And she walked in, saw me, held Danny's hand, walked right by me. And I actually walked in with Logan and Danny.

Speaker 1 Oh, sorry. You walked in with two guys.

Speaker 1 It wasn't just like holding one guy's hand.

Speaker 1 All throughout the next several days, you know, it's, I love you.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry you're dealing with hate, but you know what what can i do if if i say anything i'm just gonna look crazy and and and this and that while simultaneously making fun of what we had so it it made it like hey no there's nothing going on with danny don't worry but let me post danny in every photo let me let me act like i'm dating him so it was like it was like kind of like she's making sure that she has me here but eh fuck you at the same time let me ask you

Speaker 6 when when you were hearing um tyler speak to Taylor about the gym do you see his point of view yeah okay I feel like it's kind of the same, where in the sense that here is Tyler saying to Taylor, you know, clearly there's feelings, right?

Speaker 6 Whether he meant to or not, Taylor perceived it as one thing. He's telling us that like, whether you perceive it the way I didn't mean it that way.

Speaker 6 And I'm hearing from Ashley that she was trying to figure out how to enjoy this incredible, maybe painful, but like fun experience of you guys getting to go on TV.

Speaker 6 and trying to, you know, post social, have some fun. But for you, it felt like a fucking dig.
It felt like a

Speaker 1 everyone sends it to me. I'd like the amount of stuff I get sent, and they're like, That's not her fault.

Speaker 6 No, no, it's when I was the villain, my parents would, like, you know, like, hey, this is a new thing. You're a piece of shit.

Speaker 1 You know, like, I'm interesting because what we're talking about has like a two-week lifespan.

Speaker 1 The first, I mean, literally up until two days ago, I actually, I finally let go and I, and I released it. And I was like, God, I feel so much lighter.

Speaker 1 Like, I finally do not have this attachment where I need her respect, where I need her to give me acknowledgement, where I need her to admit that what we had was real.

Speaker 1 I was, oh my God, I was so hungry for it because it meant so much to me because I worked so hard for it. And the other day when I finally released it, oh my God, now I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 It's totally the same thing.

Speaker 1 Tyler was taking her to the gym, not just because he was with the new girl. It doesn't matter.
Ashley's posting videos because she thinks it's funny and it's whatever and it's good for her clout.

Speaker 1 Whether it be at my expense, who cares? She doesn't owe me anything. And now I know that.

Speaker 6 it probably wasn't even at your expense from her point of view I mean I don't know if you've seen all of them but it doesn't matter

Speaker 1 I had to deal a little bit with that with Taylor too like she on Netflix posted about you know me having a small penis and what yeah no way yeah and she talked I didn't post anything oh you confirmed it I'm sorry and so

Speaker 1 no so no hold on hold on hold on

Speaker 8 hold on hold on and then there's all her posts about you know uh lost a man upgraded everything's better and she messaging my ex-wife on social media so I understand that what you're getting through yeah but you know it's it's it's it's it's the price you pay for the TV show and doing this oh I recognize it now yeah but I and but I feel for you big time you know and that's been something that I'm actively trying to deal with and rise above and and and try not let it get to me because it is hard not to take it personal but she's just trying to enjoy the TV show and post this and you know get likes and clicks and views and that's fine you know that's no not you I'm talking about Taylor I don't know about your situation i was just expressing that kind of one no it's a situation i feel you a little bit but i don't to navigate that is is very difficult i had to really i had to let go of my need for

Speaker 1 her respect is what i had to do

Speaker 2 from my point of view i'm seeing it as someone who ended a relationship she was no longer with you she's trying to move on

Speaker 2 and cope with everything that a tv show that's number one on netflix uh relationship that is constantly in the back of her mind you and your mental health issues also just like leaning in and having fun on tick tock she clearly made friends with danny and logan they are like a safe place to her and she's like made

Speaker 1 posting with them i feel as if it's like just her moving on from you it would be it would be that if we weren't in communication you know what i mean like like what you're what you're saying totally valid If we never talked after we broke up, but it never told you when we broke up.

Speaker 1 I mean, the last time we talked was a week ago or whatever or so before the premiere, and it was her assuring me there was nothing going on and not to worry, and I love you, right?

Speaker 1 But then, when I'm seeing all this, I'm like, But that's what I'm saying is, I'm okay now.

Speaker 3 We broke up, and I said, Maybe this will air and I'll feel differently.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't feel differently after it airing, but also watching everything, like how you've reacted to everything was just disappointing.

Speaker 1 I don't care what you think. I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 3 Okay, but that's what I'm but you can't.

Speaker 1 I did. I totally did.
I let it consume me. I regret that immensely.

Speaker 1 I wish that I didn't. I wish I didn't let it affect me the way it did.

Speaker 2 So is there a world in which you can sit here and look at Ashley and say, like,

Speaker 2 post whatever you want?

Speaker 1 Right now, yes. Post whatever you want.
I don't care. I'm okay.
Like, absolutely. Right now, yes.
Continue doing whatever you'd like to do. I support you.
I love you.

Speaker 2 Are you going to call her or text her and say, like, why are you posting?

Speaker 1 Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Speaker 1 not not anymore i have completely released it we are like it's not it's never happening we can't how do you feel about that i would like to believe that your words and actions will align this time i won't be reaching out to you

Speaker 1 you don't have to worry about me or my daughter uh you are good to be on your own and move on and to me i i lost respect for you seeing the the videos that you were posting not because you owed me but because i i had looked up to you in this way where, you know, you convinced me you were the most loyal person that would ever be in my life.

Speaker 1 You convinced me of that. And when I saw how you were downplaying things after the show, it made me lose respect.
It did.

Speaker 1 I lost respect for you, which I had never lost this entire time. No matter how bad you talked to me, no matter the belittling, no matter anything.

Speaker 3 I don't think you can say that after

Speaker 1 I can feel it's how I feel.

Speaker 3 It's oh, so you didn't lose respect for me on the show?

Speaker 1 A little bit, how you're you're talking about me, but it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 Because of what happened after the show, the only reason I'm okay now is because I know that I gave you everything I possibly could after the show.

Speaker 1 That is the only thing that makes all of this okay now because I know who I am. I know what I gave you.
I know what we had.

Speaker 1 And regardless whether you want to acknowledge it or regardless if you want to

Speaker 1 shout it to the rooftops, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry. I did acknowledge it.

Speaker 9 It's just like not enough.

Speaker 1 It wasn't, but it's okay.

Speaker 6 Why do you have such a hard time letting him go?

Speaker 1 That's the question.

Speaker 1 I want to know what it looked like right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, great.

Speaker 3 I think I have, like, I've let him go, but it just, I'm like, watching everything back, I realize how empathetic I actually am. And I've never really like acknowledged that about myself.

Speaker 3 And I just hate seeing him hurt.

Speaker 3 And that's just kind of what it is at the end of the day.

Speaker 6 I mean, you guys care about each other. That's obvious.
I hope that you allow yourselves to both acknowledge that. We've all heard the term hurt people, hurt people, right?

Speaker 6 I think everyone watching people sitting, you know, there's just a lot of hurt. Despite the effort at growth, I think there's still a very, it's just a tricky to be here.

Speaker 1 Ton of work for both of us to continue doing, I think.

Speaker 6 Do you think you guys can at least get to a place today where you could just acknowledge the love you guys have for each other hopefully still the respect and just let each other go in a place where it's just like just accept accept that you're not each other's person do you guys think you can get to a place where you can acknowledge that there's love and still say goodbye i mean that's where i am does it hurt you to see her upset of course i you know like i said the last two weeks have been a roller coaster for me um

Speaker 1 and a couple days ago i just had an internal conversation and moment where I had to release her. So I

Speaker 1 focused a lot over the past, you know, what, almost two years now on what Ashley was thinking of me and how she was feeling.

Speaker 1 And, you know, those six months where we were working on it, it killed me seeing how pain, how much in pain she was. And that's why when she broke up with me and wanted me back, I stopped myself.

Speaker 1 for the first time ever. I feel like I was trying to, trying a little harder to stop myself from going back into it because she was miserable.
And yes, it was from

Speaker 1 stemmed from things that I did. But that's why I was saying before, I realized that it is not my responsibility for her own journey on how she can heal or how she can forgive or how she can move on.

Speaker 1 And the fact of the matter is, it was killing me by fighting for it. I finally got to the point where I was like, okay, I'm like, I'm kind of dying here.

Speaker 1 Like, are you going to, are you going to open up a little bit to her or no? Cause I'm sitting there, you know, giving her 150% effort. And I felt the same things that you were describing.

Speaker 1 And I feel that with my daughter. I was truly in a place where all those little sacrifices, they felt good.
I love, I loved loving you.

Speaker 1 And so now it's like, it's hard to respect you the same way.

Speaker 1 because I watched you not only and you could say what you want about the videos you've been making. To me, it is you sitting on your hands and laughing that's how it feels to me do you think her

Speaker 1 tick tock videos are worse than what you did on the show that there's there's no worse or anything i i i think i fucked up i think she has fucked up i think we all fuck up i'm not comparing but to sit here and say that and then like release text and talk about me the way you have i've never talked bad about you i'm sorry i haven't i've never said you're a a bad person.

Speaker 1 I have said how incredible you were, that it is not your fault that I did what I did.

Speaker 1 The only thing that I've said is how you were treating me and how it made me feel.

Speaker 3 That's it.

Speaker 1 I'm exhausted and I don't want to like get into that, but to say you lost respect for me over some like funny TikToks, like you live with that then because I don't

Speaker 1 like you

Speaker 3 released private texts.

Speaker 6 Kind of to Nally's question, it's just when you're hurt, you feel very justified in your feelings. When you hurt someone,

Speaker 6 you know, as, again, it's human nature to just try to explain yourself, justify yourself, which again, in this particular situation, it's a lot of like, you did this and you did that.

Speaker 6 It comes across as like.

Speaker 1 If I'm being real, the reason why it felt like that I lost respect for

Speaker 1 was because of an expectation that I had.

Speaker 1 which wasn't fair because I think the second we start expecting things of people and they don't do what we're expecting, it's not their fault for us being sad about it.

Speaker 6 And which is her way of saying that without saying you lost respect for her.

Speaker 1 Yes, you're right.

Speaker 1 I didn't like watching you not speak up for the man that you knew I had become. It hurt me to know.

Speaker 1 It hurt me to hear how you were

Speaker 1 nonchalantly laughing about our relationship. The videos about 0.2 seconds.
It wasn't 0.2 seconds. That was everything.

Speaker 1 I wanted to marry you. So it hurt me.
But this is the point I've gotten at several times.

Speaker 3 You say this, and then you post a video about how you fucked up and you missed Natalie and you were thinking about her the whole time we were together. So it's like, stop, just stop.

Speaker 1 Just drop it. Let it go.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 absolutely not.

Speaker 1 I was what she's referring to is me replying to a comment and saying that I can't have multiple feelings at the same time is dumb because all of us have conflicting feelings at some other point in our lives, right?

Speaker 1 And what I was saying was someone asked me,

Speaker 1 you know, do you, do you miss Natalie? And yeah,

Speaker 1 I miss that piece of time that we had. And yeah, I miss you too.
Like, it's, of course, you know, I had both of you who I had love for. And yeah, to me now, yes, it sucks.

Speaker 1 Saying that, you know, I was thinking about her the whole time.

Speaker 1 No, I wasn't thinking about her the entire time but yeah when when we would get at moments where i was like damn this girl is literally killing me she's she's beating me into a pulp which is how i was feeling about our relationship in those moments of course i would think back to natalie because then i would be like damn was my biggest up like cheating on natalie with you because natalie was nothing but sweet and caring and soft and we didn't have any baggage and and i finally had moved on from you so of course you know there was times where i would think back like damn, should I have just like, how bad did I fuck this up?

Speaker 1 Am I just again now forcing myself into this relationship as I was trying to figure out on the show, have I still not learned my lesson?

Speaker 3 That is all valid, but then to double down and say, I knew with everything in my being that I wanted to marry you and you were my person, like, that does not make sense.

Speaker 1 So sorry.

Speaker 1 I'm kind of referring to individual and moments where I had these internal thoughts and they didn't last long. Obviously, I stayed in what I was doing.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 3 but did you because immediately after we broke up, you were hitting up Natalie?

Speaker 7 What was that?

Speaker 3 Immediately after we broke up, you were hitting up Natalie.

Speaker 1 Maybe so, but it's like

Speaker 3 you want me to vouch that you're this changed man.

Speaker 1 I can't do that. Okay, but

Speaker 1 the way I changed was my ability to become vulnerable and to love you and to support you and to be caring and listen and all of those things I changed. And I wasn't cheating on you.
I was being loyal.

Speaker 1 These were the things I changed. What are you doing? You worrying about something I did after we break up has nothing to do with you.

Speaker 3 Do you think you still have to do that? So exactly about my videos.

Speaker 1 Correct, which is why I'm saying that you're okay to do that.

Speaker 1 I was wrong for being angry at you is what I'm saying. Do you think you still have some work to do? Absolutely.
Absolutely. I think we all do toward that different.

Speaker 1 That's fair.

Speaker 2 Ashley did refer to you at the final bonfire as a serial cheater.

Speaker 2 Is that a true statement?

Speaker 1 In my past relationships, I have cheated.

Speaker 2 Hypothetically speaking, if

Speaker 2 your daughter grows up one day and comes to you and says, daddy, my boyfriend cheated on me, what advice would you give her?

Speaker 1 I've been thinking about that a lot. Like, you know, my daughter is looking up to me to be an example.
And, you know, after the show and after not only cheating on Ashley during the show, but...

Speaker 1 cheating on Natalie after the show with Ashley. That's where that's where it clicked.
Like, that's what made me change.

Speaker 1 I mean, I was like, okay, you're about to be 29 years old for the last 10 years of your life. You have been not completely vulnerable in every relationship that you've been in.

Speaker 1 And you have stepped out and tried to find love elsewhere because you're not giving what you're expecting. You know, I had to go through all these kind of reality checks.

Speaker 1 And so when I think about my daughter, who is literally the perfect ball of love,

Speaker 1 of course, I don't want her to meet someone like I was.

Speaker 1 No way, no way. So it's my responsibility now to make sure that I am setting a good example.
And she can,

Speaker 1 hopefully, I find someone that

Speaker 1 I could start off right. I can ask the right questions early on.
I could treat them with respect and love and kindness, what Ashley deserved from the beginning.

Speaker 1 And my daughter can watch that as she grows up. She's only six right now.
Thank God. I wish I learned this before she was born, but it didn't happen that way.
And I learned it now.

Speaker 1 So this is my journey. So from now on, I want to make sure that I'm staying true to what I've learned based on all of these things, right?

Speaker 1 And when it comes time, I hope that my daughter and I have the relationship where she feel like she could talk to me. I personally grew up in a family where

Speaker 1 I couldn't really talk to my parents about personal things, relationship things. And it's not because I couldn't, but it's because the

Speaker 1 way the dynamic was, they were parents and not friends. 100%, parents, not friends.
Like we don't do these things.

Speaker 1 So when I would go to friends' houses, I felt like I could talk more freely with other people's parents than my own.

Speaker 1 And I don't want that with my daughter because of, I mean, a multitude of reasons.

Speaker 1 But that is my plan of action on how to deal with what potentially could come. And it's more likely than not going to happen.

Speaker 1 And regardless, whether you want to say it's karma or this or that, it's very likely that it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 And I just hope that I can explain to her how I used to be and how many people that I've hurt and hopefully set a good example and we can talk it out. You know, the advice,

Speaker 1 I don't, I,

Speaker 1 when I get to that point, I hope that I've learned a lot more than I know now. I, I don't know, but I just want to be a good example.

Speaker 6 Taylor, do you have any regrets for commenting on Tyler's manhood?

Speaker 5 Uh, no, because he was the one that said, I'm stretched out.

Speaker 1 So what's that mean?

Speaker 8 No, it was the Netflix intro. He's like, the guy is a personal trainer, and he's like, I'm here to stretch your girls.
And I was like, oh, she's already stretched.

Speaker 8 But because of the context, everyone took it as like that sort of stretch, which I was took it as like limber.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah, that's literally what I meant. But then obviously the context of everything and everyone took it another way because there's no way I would literally like.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 5 And it really helps that Leno commented. it on the Netflix article.

Speaker 1 So that, so that was the whole thing. What did you call it?

Speaker 5 You were like, I'm dead.

Speaker 5 He said, she's so stretched, or something like that. So, like, over a thousand people liked it.
That started the whole commentary of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but

Speaker 7 yeah, that floored me. I can't.

Speaker 1 The same, no matter how is that upsetting.

Speaker 2 Like a vagina stretch.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 My understanding perspective was that Tyler was the one who would be the stretcher in that scenario.

Speaker 6 Have you guys set a date?

Speaker 9 Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 10 October 2nd, 2026 in Italy.

Speaker 1 Congratulations.

Speaker 8 Are we all invited?

Speaker 1 Oh, shut up.

Speaker 1 Shut up.

Speaker 1 We haven't started invite lists at all.

Speaker 6 You guys, obviously, you're in love. There's not a lot of drama to unpack with you two, but we've obviously listened to a lot of hurt feelings on both sides.
And you guys did get a front row seat.

Speaker 6 with these people. Is there anything, Alexa and Lena, you'd like to share or add to the conversation?

Speaker 11 It's hard to watch.

Speaker 10 It's really hard to watch because

Speaker 10 obviously these people are human and they're all hurt in a different way. Everyone here is hurt from this relationship, these relationships that we see.

Speaker 10 It's really hard to watch. And I want to remind people, like in their future relationships, practice selflessness, every action, every word,

Speaker 11 every thought you're thinking about the other person.

Speaker 10 And normally when that is first, you won't do something to hurt them. You won't say something to hurt them.

Speaker 10 And I just, maybe that's just advice that, I don't know, I could offer, but I love these girls and I was, I was there for them through really hard times and I support them and everything that they do and I want them to be happy.

Speaker 10 And it's hard to see how much hurt is in these relationships.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and I'd like to double down on that because we're all human at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 We all have relationships.

Speaker 7 They They weren't the right people for each other, but they're getting all of this rain down upon them because they were willing to put themselves out there on TV.

Speaker 7 And for Breon and Shantae as well, I

Speaker 7 find it very sad that they have to deal with some of the things that they're getting. And even Ashley has a hard time letting go of Grant after countless times.

Speaker 1 We've talked about it.

Speaker 7 And for Shantae to have to deal with that and allowing Breon to be back into her life, I feel for everyone. And

Speaker 7 it just upsets me.

Speaker 11 Yeah, it's hard for us to watch.

Speaker 10 Like we are very happy and we're thankful for this experience. I think we're all thankful in different ways because we all at least took something out of it.

Speaker 10 But it is hard to, it was hard to be happy sometimes because I'm hurting with these girls when they're hurting. It was, that was hard.

Speaker 10 It's a weird place to be.

Speaker 7 And I think for us, I was there for the guys. I have their perspective and I support them, but I just as much support the girls.
I don't think their actions are right.

Speaker 7 I don't think, I'm not defending anyone's actions. We all have what happened and we all have our own perspective.

Speaker 6 Yeah, we can all agree everyone's something to apologize for.

Speaker 7 Exactly. And I think that

Speaker 7 that's not the right person for you. Just go your separate ways.
This was an experience for everyone. We have to deal with it.
It's part of the show business.

Speaker 1 We have to talk about it. But

Speaker 7 I would ask the viewers to offer some grace because

Speaker 7 everyone has relationship struggles. Alexa and I seem great, but we dealt with a lot to get to this point.
And like you said before, it's about choosing that person every day.

Speaker 7 And if that's too much work, then move on.

Speaker 6 Taylor, what's something you mentioned you're single? Yes.

Speaker 6 What's something you would like to work on or maybe you have worked on

Speaker 6 that you would like to change about how you are in relationships specifically? Because I don't know what's been happening between then, but like your relationship with Tyler.

Speaker 5 Are you speaking in the context of Tyler and I's relationship?

Speaker 6 Yeah, like, I mean, our context of how you are in relationship is mostly centered around your time with Tyler and possibly before that with, you know, you guys told some backstories, but maybe you've made some changes.

Speaker 6 Maybe you have some changes you're still working towards. But what are those changes that, you know, you would like to incorporate into your next relationship, specifically how you conduct yourself?

Speaker 6 For sure.

Speaker 5 I think what I've been doing, so I've been in therapy for three years. So like I'm very happy about my journey.
I know I have things to work on and I'll continue doing that. I think two things.

Speaker 5 One, getting out of that survival. Like if somebody says something, I'm like automatically just like, sure, what the fuck?

Speaker 5 And not taking things personally, but also just healing my childhood. I clearly have some abandonment issues.
I clearly have some larger childhood trauma. So I've been unpacking that.

Speaker 5 And I think making myself feel safe and number one first will help me navigate whatever situation I'm faced with. So I'm happy to do that.

Speaker 5 And I'm thankful for Tyler and this experience to be able to go through something like that to show me because watching the show back was not hard for me at all.

Speaker 5 It was very healing because I was able to see, oh, okay. So that's, you know, your trauma response or that's fight or flight.

Speaker 5 Or, and then once I truly let go and Tyler was riding into the sunset with Kay, I was truly coming into myself. And that was really happy to see.

Speaker 6 Do you think you have a bad habit of being a fixer in a relationship?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 Like, I work in health, like public health. I work on government grants to better support underdeveloped communities.
So, like, this is something I see something and I just want to help.

Speaker 5 I just want to love. I didn't get that love growing up.
So, I want to so badly do that for someone else because I know how it feels to be alone.

Speaker 6 I mean, I think sometimes the one thing I noticed at the bonfire chat with the two of you, and I understand there's a lot of anger and pain at that point, but it just kind of seemed like, seemed almost like you loved Tyler more than you liked him.

Speaker 5 What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 Damn.

Speaker 6 Well, it means that like, you know, you cared about him. You had feelings.

Speaker 6 You, you, you know, clearly were hurt, but like you just, you had a lot of notes for what he should do or what you think he could do.

Speaker 6 Or, you know, there were just a lot of things you didn't like about him. And I just, I've learned in relationships, men need to feel like you like them.
Right.

Speaker 6 You know, like you, like you are proud of them. Yeah.

Speaker 6 And do you feel like, yeah, does that ring true?

Speaker 5 1000%.

Speaker 5 I definitely feel

Speaker 5 like I was trying to force something that clearly shouldn't be forced. We should have probably never been together like from the very, very, very beginning.

Speaker 5 And yes, I did have notes. And now I see I need to accept my partner for who they are, not what I want them to be.

Speaker 10 So that's a lot of.

Speaker 1 growth and positivity.

Speaker 6 Well, I want to thank you all. Obviously, this wasn't easy.
It's It's clearly emotional, but thank you for being honest, you know, and hopefully, I think eventually feel like it's healing.

Speaker 6 Maybe not right now.

Speaker 6 I know the internet and all your fans and the fans of the show appreciate you guys coming together because clearly these were a lot of questions and, you know, a lot of what you shared are things that people were very interested in.

Speaker 6 So we very much appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Thank you for coming.

Speaker 6 And thank you guys for listening. We will see you back next week.
If you're new to the show, subscribe, all that fun stuff. We're here four times a week.
So join the household.

Speaker 1 We welcome you.

Speaker 6 Thanks for listening.