E994 – Going Deeper with Kat and Dale: BIP Unpacked

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You're crazy.

Dale, Kat, welcome to the Vaufiles.

Yeah, it's good to be here.

We're wrapped.

Are you okay?

We're okay.

I don't know what to do with my hands.

I know.

I'm like, what do I do with my hands?

Do you need to breathe?

Yeah, no, we're good.

Let's get into it, man.

So you guys are together.

We are.

Honestly, I I wasn't sure how it was going to play out.

Are you bummed that you didn't leave with a ring?

Or are you like, you know what?

It's grown up.

And they're done that.

I'm good.

No.

I'm totally fine without a ring.

I honestly, like, the way the show was formatted, obviously different, like the new format.

Like, I almost like forgot about the engagement element.

Yeah.

I feel like it made the engagements less like, you're like, oh, okay.

I was like, yeah, the money.

I guess.

But

the money.

I think they were more focused on like truly like building relationships.

If you see, even though engagements were the forefront of previous seasons, they haven't really worked out that well.

So like whatever they're doing this time around, I think worked a little bit better because we're together.

I also think like, you know, people focus on the money aspect, but when you're actually on the show, granted, some of that's in the back of your mind, but it wasn't a topic of conversation with any of us.

So we knew that we had to compete at a certain point.

But I think it made people dive in a lot deeper.

So if they had a connection or there was something that they were really trying to build, it's like you were going all in and trying to find even more common ground and support your partner I'll be honest I really wanted someone to take all the money I mean that would have been good to be 500 500 racks I mean it is life-changing so I was a little confused how did it go from up to five hundred thousand dollars to two couples had to split 250 did you expect anything less

and then as they said half a mail I was like no one's getting half a mail yeah like I mean at the time you were really expecting that to be the case but then as it went on, you're like, oh, wait, they said opportunity.

Like, it's all about the wording.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like, oh, well, we'll try.

I mean, like, when you bring it down, they're only, they're only getting 75K each of them.

That was my first question to him.

When they told us, I go, what are the taxes?

I was like, I need to know.

I don't understand this one.

So $250, divide that by half.

$125, divide that by half.

It's not even $75.

Yeah.

I mean, the taxes.

They're getting like $60.

Still, I mean, that is a whole income.

I'm not sure what the Costa Rican

is.

I don't know, but actually, I mean, I guess you could get creative.

But I mean, regardless, I think at the end of the day, if it was winning, it was the biggest thing.

The money was an incentive, but you just wanted to win for your partner and you wanted to win for each other.

So that was, you know, one of the tougher things, at least for me personally, just because at the end of it, I felt

a little let down

just because I had felt like I let Kat down a little bit.

Why do you feel like you let Kat down?

Boy things.

Boy things.

I made the competition

not strong enough.

That was funny when we were were watching it.

I go, I don't know, Dale's a pretty big guy.

And then like seconds later, you film the play.

I was frustrated.

So before filming, I tore my lat and my tricep.

And we had no strength competitions the whole time.

How do you tear?

I was actually in Costa Rica well before the show.

And I was working out and in training and I did like a pull-up and my hand slipped off the bar, caught my...

arm right here.

I didn't even know my lat was torn until halfway through paradise.

But that's not an excuse, but it was a a frustrating

rehab PT, but at the end of the day, like it's it's not something I ever talked about because it didn't matter, right?

We're gonna go out there and just try to put it all on the line, but uh yeah, well, they always say you're only as strong as your weakest link.

Yeah, do you think you were the weakest link or do you think it was?

I was definitely the weakest link.

No question.

No question.

I was like, that's why it took us so long.

He was holding the whole thing.

I was like trying to hold more.

I remember being like, we can like call it.

Like, I don't want you to hurt yourself.

I think we because did you know about his injuries before?

Well, I found out how extensive it was kind of like during the competition because, you know, boys like don't like to show their weakness.

So, like, as it was going on, I was like, oh, like, he's actually injured.

Like, I don't care.

Like, let's call it.

But it's fine.

It's all working.

It's cleared by a doctor.

It's all, it's all gravy.

I think what was amazing about that day is like the whole concept was like, your partner carries like the weight of the world.

And yeah, that was like a physical challenge.

But later in the evening, when I couldn't handle emotionally things, like he technically like carried the weight and like stood for both of us.

So in a way, like we kind of wanted a better challenge because it was put to a test.

Yeah.

And she, she definitely calmed me down just because I was so frustrated after the fact.

And I think that's kind of a dynamic throughout the whole season.

Sometimes one of us would be high, you know, the other would kind of bring us back down and ultimately like.

move past it quickly.

The end of the day, it was just that we were standing together, you know, throughout the entirety of the season.

Well, we'll get into the details of Paradise, but since you guys are together, I'd love to know what you guys have been up to.

Like, when did you guys stop filming?

Last week of May.

Yeah, we still, yeah, last week of May.

Is this the first?

Second.

Happy September, everybody.

Happy, happy September.

Burger season.

So, yeah, so you guys have been together for how long now?

What is that?

June, July, August.

Wait, since we confirmed it.

I guess technically

if we talk about after the show, since June.

Yeah, so it was.

Go ahead.

You live in San Diego, you live in New York.

Yep.

And so what, did you guys, because obviously you left Paradise as a couple, but it was kind of unclear.

Like,

for all we knew, like, the next day, you guys could have been like, all right, well, nice knowing you.

Like, as you guys left Paradise, like, did you, what conversations did you guys have?

Was there a, will you be my girlfriend?

Will you be my boyfriend?

Like, how did you guys become an actual?

couple outside of a reality TV environment.

I think the same way we approached it during the show, but we also, we had a lot of the conversations of things that were important to us, you know, if we're going to build this into a strong relationship.

And I think we were realistic about, you know, just our lives before things, you know, our priorities.

And we took.

took the time.

Obviously, anytime you get into a situation, there's stuff from the past that comes up on both sides.

But I think communication is the biggest thing and just being very, very clear and having some of the hard conversations, but also like speaking to the things that we both wanted or both want out of a relationship in a future.

So were you like, will you be my girlfriend?

Well, I actually asked him on TV

because it was a joke.

I kept calling him my boyfriend, like, but I hadn't like technically like, we hadn't.

established that so I wrote like the are you friends or anything

but we definitely did speak about like how we were gonna move when we left paradise because even though the money was there we're like well no matter what we're still leaving together and I think I call it like phases like that was phase one was filming and phase two is like the real challenge like watching it air going through life like navigating secrecy like trying to do things to build a relationship without being able to kind of because of the publicness that comes with it and i think that's like a real testimony to like our strength and i think we've handled it really well but yeah i mean he was in san diego like by three days after filming after you stayed there for a little bit and then we were just kind of like trying to see each other anytime we could i feel like we've made a really good effort and I can't really go to New York because it's too public, but we've been hiding out.

What were some of the tough conversations that you guys had to have?

I mean, I was very honest when I first came into

the show.

Like, I didn't want to fall back into old patterns.

I'm someone who checks out and I'm not a big dater.

But, you know, and I told Kat this, like, I never wanted to put someone in a box that they didn't deserve to be in.

Also, like, I was worried, was I going to be able to feel again after a previous relationship that, you know, with someone who's a great person, it just didn't work out.

Are we talking about Claire?

Are you talking about like

out?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

But I think Claire's relationship I'm doing well

from what I know now, which is, you know, it's great.

But you just move move past things.

So I think a lot of it was things that I had to deal with, you know, personally.

And, you know, we talk about locations and how things like that would work, which is something that, you know, we're, you know, going to navigate together.

Are you pretty settled in New York?

I've been there 10 years.

You know, I've got my agency and some businesses there.

One of the good things is that, I mean, I've taken 52 flights this year.

So I can kind of be where I need to be.

But I've also said that for me, home is where I build a relationship.

And that is kind of what I always stick to.

So there's a lot of moving parts, but I think we're both understanding that, like, you know, we have our priorities with our life and our career.

But if you're going to build a life, you eventually have to have to make some tough decisions.

And that's what we're navigating right now.

We can be public and just really enjoy ourselves, which is great.

And all that other stuff will work itself out.

And fortunately,

you know, we've got the the means and the ability to kind of navigate that cat you obviously ended paradise last time

and wasn't you you got engaged i did get engaged um

and i did trending trending

you're not gonna get any cool kids are doing it

you're not gonna get any

yeah so i mean obviously like that comes with um you know just like i don't know maybe not ptsd but like a more of a yeah how did you want to approach uh this experience different than last knowing that like yeah, I mean, it's very complicated entering, you both know this, starting a relationship on TV,

very fast, very intense.

You want it to be real.

There's a real element of it, but there's a part that's just, it's not real.

Yeah.

Because you just have to get to know each other.

I mean, maybe you've spoken out in the past.

Maybe you haven't.

I don't know.

But like, why didn't that relationship work?

And coming into this experience, what did you want to, how did you want to move differently, specifically you?

Yeah, lots of things.

Well, I think just as we grow and evolve like we're different people the version of myself back then and especially that last paradise I kind of didn't know my needs or wants I kind of would just like allow anything so even though there was blatant like things that said maybe this isn't your person or you should probably like take like slow down a little bit I wasn't seeing those like signs.

And then I think being in those environment and stuff like that, you set this like expectation that it's going to go a certain way and you'll kind of like convince yourself that it's going to to go that way no matter what.

And then watching it back and moving through my own like things afterwards with other relationships, I learned a lot about like, okay, it's better to actually take things slow and let things happen the way they're supposed to.

So this time coming in, I mean, I was like actively journaling every day.

That really matters.

I was just like making myself very present.

If I did feel like I was kind of getting wrapped up in the moment, I was checking in with, you know, the therapist like almost every three days or so, just to kind of like reground myself and being very like aware that emotions are forming here but still there's so much more to learn about someone after so like just letting things play the way they're supposed to but but not putting so much emphasis on how it's going to end essentially if that makes sense like i just didn't want to set these like unrealistic expectations then end up like hurting my own feelings um but i think having him too like he's kind of already gone through it as well like we had that like connection so i felt a little bit more safer in that i think what i struggled with before was trying to navigate somebody that you really didn't know in real time and trying to handle all the things that come with the airing of it of the season.

And that was really difficult.

But I think even with the challenges and just like time that we had spent together, I really got to like see his character at how we face adversity, how we move through things to feel at least safe enough to try outside, knowing that it still might not work.

What phase of the relationship are you guys in right now?

Oh, I mean, phase one, phase two.

I don't know.

Maybe phase two plus.

This is all we got.

We're seeing each other.

Yeah.

No, no, no engagement talks or anything like that.

But I think like, you know, you have the show and we built the foundation there.

I think when we talk about after the show in June, it was still a deep exploration phase for the both of us.

You know, we had many conversations, things that sprung up with both of us that weren't created by the other partner, right?

You know, now

moving forward, we're just in a very, very strong place.

I don't really know how to say that.

Are you falling in love?

Are y'all in love?

Oh, you guys like want like the bachelor terms?

Well, I mean, I mean, we like to make fun of them, but I mean, also, yeah, but like, also.

Have you guys said I love you?

We do say, yeah, I guess.

You sure?

I mean, he doesn't like to like talk about it.

About what?

You guys have a public relationship.

I know.

I know, but we always like also, I think I've always been, you go on a show, there's these aspects.

And it's also, there's certain things that you share, you know, with people because you're proud of, but there's also things that, you know, you, you kind of keep tight.

But like there's been no doubt.

I said it on the show.

Like, you know, I love and care for Kat deeply.

We have all the conversations of what it looks like, you know, if it's kids, if it's, you know, a home and what we want.

So.

Yeah, I guess I've never just phased like a relationship.

But the love is there.

The love has grown.

We do express like that to one another.

I'm just still very like,

now we're moving to like the fact that now we're going to be public and then it's going to have its own things.

And honestly, we can probably grow even deeper.

It is still really difficult to like try to build a relationship in private long distance.

So now that we have that like ability to do that, it's just going to give it even more space to grow and evolve.

But do you both want kids?

I know you just mentioned kids.

Is that something you want as an individual?

Yeah, I think one of the greatest gifts in the world will be to be a father.

I think,

you know, with a child seeing my partner in my child's eyes is like a gift,

you know, that I'll look forward to each and every year.

How old are you?

36.

how old are you 29.

okay and i was it's safe to say at this stage in both your lives you're not you're not dating or having a boyfriend or girlfriend knowing that you're two individuals who like want to have a yeah i was i was never a big dater before i think taking time for me it's always been take time to to meet someone and get to understand them well um you know the relationship uh will form in its you know on its own but i'm not trying to waste my time i'm not trying to waste anyone else's time and i think you know even with Paradise and after the fact, like, it's all the way it ended, but it's like, hey, you know, I'm standing here with you.

Like, we're going to go through the conversations.

We're going to do what we have to do to build this as strong as possible.

But we're also, you know, and we're going to support each other.

So yeah, we're not just trying to like casually, you know, hang out.

I mean, he's met my family.

He's met my cat.

That matters a lot.

It's all about the cat, cat, daddy.

Yeah, he's he has a relationship with my cat.

Well, in the four or five months you guys have dated, what's something each of you have learned about the other person that is

like an obstacle or an ick or a challenge where it's just like, okay, well, we can work through that.

You know,

that is literally my response.

We can work through that.

You know, what is something?

I think there's got to be something.

I mean, I think I've just learned about.

Dale, like how, you know, I actually like, we kind of saw it on TV a little bit, but he cares so much about being like a good provider and partner.

And I think he puts so much pressure on himself.

So if things are expressed where he feels that, like almost like he's not doing the right thing or not doing enough or disappointing somebody,

it can make him very like, no, no, no, I'm this, that, and the other.

And he thinks very logically, I'm a little bit more emotional based and kind of like the textbook stuff.

And I think that learning through how we both interpret things and having, like, trying to adjust or at least understand that from one another has allowed us to really like any conflict or things that we need to talk about, it brings us closer.

Yeah.

I think a big thing

is it's more just understanding.

And that's something that comes with time.

Like, you know, our careers are different.

We're both really focused on our life and our careers.

You know, I have flexibility, but also like, you know, I got a lot of people relying on me, people who, you know, I pay their pay their rent.

are at least, you know, chip in on it, obviously.

So I wouldn't say it's like, it's it's not an ick or a red flag or anything like that, but it's just the understanding that like, I got to grind, you know, and I like working.

I'm in a phase where like I'm very, very passionate about the things that I'm doing.

And I take care of a family, you know, I'm going to redirect my dad.

He's not doing it himself.

You know, my siblings, my sister Amber that has physical and intellectual disabilities.

We just took her out of her group home.

You know, I you know, helped pay for my our house back in South Dakota.

So I think it's just the balance of responsibilities, not only with our relationship, but I do provide for a family currently.

And she's been extremely supportive and understanding.

But I know it can be frustrating.

I think I had to learn that like, yeah, if he's working, like, that doesn't mean he doesn't like me any less, you know, a little bit of anxious attachment definitely sparked in the beginning.

We had to talk about it.

He's like, listen, just because I'm like, not like.

there or whatever doesn't mean that I'm not thinking about you any less or whatever.

So those are like things that I had to work through within myself too, to understand because I also, this is a new relationship dynamic and again not being able to be public has really affected that because a lot of things we probably could do together yeah that now we can weren't in the cards yeah we just couldn't because it would be public but yeah just definitely so there's been no icks what is i don't like you haven't tripped over i definitely give him the yick in some capacity i like there's no way that i am just like i he just like plays it off yeah i'm just like i i often say it's not that deep it's all good it's okay i mean probably when i'm like just going and rants on the phone and you just like put the phone in some way I did not know he did that.

Oh, no.

No,

I turned the volume down

and put it on speaker.

And he starts like cooking dinner.

I guess I'm just talking.

No, I'm

spewing about life or like something, never at him, but like,

I'm thinking, and I'm like, hello?

He's like,

I'm here.

Yeah.

I'm here.

And I was like, oh my God, I didn't even know that like,

how long have I been going?

In the past, like, if that was the case, like, I would be like, the relationships, yeah, they were very understanding the way he is, but he he just kind of like accepts me for who I am.

So that it's an I'm sure it gives you the ick, but I we've obviously covered the show, we think it's a fun, silly show.

We don't take our commentary that seriously, so yeah, preface that by saying we've called you crazy so far, um,

crazy though, yeah,

which we appreciate.

You're excellent TV, you're like, you're like, oh, yeah, I learned that she's, she's, she's coming in hot, but like, yeah, do you feel like you are accurately portrayed on this show?

I think this

second round was very closer to true to form, but I just also think I've evolved as a person.

In general, like,

you know, you can't have everyone's personality or characteristics be shown to the fullest extent.

I do think things were taken out of context a little bit more than they should have a few years ago, but I also gave them that.

And I definitely didn't know how to manage or regulate my emotions.

Like, there was just, I was a different person two years ago.

I think this year or this time was definitely closer to true to form.

I wouldn't, I actually was really impressed with how they were editing everyone, but I mean, I am who I am.

I go on a reality reality TV show in the middle of your 20s, like

you're going to have some ups and downs for sure.

My growing pains just happened to be like broadcasted on national television.

Dale, had you watched any, had you kept up with any batch that you hadn't?

Like when I came on to the beach, because I committed officially four days before filming.

Wow.

And it was something that I was definitely open to doing, committed four days before.

And I kind of caught up a little bit like on the flight down to Costa Rica.

But I also didn't want to dive in too much on people's previous i i had no idea who was on

i i met justin before but outside of that i didn't know anybody um was this the first time you were asked to come back to bachelor nation yeah i i it was pretty clear like and it was i didn't have a bad experience you know certain things happen

experience yeah very unique experience i haven't even did you feel short changed i mean like that was a i mean i don't know how much you've spoken about showing up to a show and then someone demanding to get engaged to you.

I don't like, did you feel pressured?

I didn't feel shortchanged on anything.

I'll always say if I make a decision or I say like, I did that, like by, by my choice, Claire's in a great relationship.

You know, she's got her child, which I'm very, very happy for her.

It's just, you know, you go through those.

And I think what I did learn is like, I did have this, this want and this need to, and because of my upbringing.

And some of the things that my mom had to deal with, I always, I wanted to, to be that person who could heal someone's pain.

Or I wanted to be as good of a person as possible.

Or I believe that if you try hard enough, you can make it work with anyone.

And it wasn't about two bad people.

It's just we had, we were just different.

And sometimes that doesn't line out.

You know, and going into this, like, you know, fast forwarding, I was,

had moved through my past relationship.

I felt like I was in a great place in life and career.

Honestly, I was really burnt out and I was like, I just want to give up control.

So it was a big thing for me to go on.

And then I said this earlier.

I didn't want to put anyone in a box based on like fears and concerns or insecurities that I had.

You know, I never watched Cat's season before.

I heard they were

pretty entertaining.

She's great work of art.

And I truly probably won't watch him.

She tried to show me a clip.

I haven't seen his.

You tried to show me a clip one time.

Yeah, it was to trick him

of Dale.

No, of me.

Of you.

Try to show him.

I tried to show him like one clip of me being funny.

Like, I thought it was funny, you know, like about men pissing me off.

Like, that's hilarious.

But I hadn't seen his either.

And also coming into the season, I knew nothing.

Oh, if you blinked, you would have missed it.

I've heard.

I heard.

I heard all the tea.

Previously, I came into Paradise knowing every single thing about every single man.

I came in with my best friends.

Like my best, my best friend was the bachelorette.

So I knew everything about everyone there.

And I haven't watched or been connected since I left.

So coming in kind of with like a blank space, I think really helped too.

Cause then you get to know someone for what you see and not based on previous judgment.

Also, like one thing I got, if someone was like, oh, cat, this, cat, that, like, the thing I saw immediately was growth.

Like it was, it was apparent even just how she talked about her past experience to this one.

And for me, that was the biggest thing.

And that's what I focus on because we all go through shit in life.

Like nobody's perfect.

We all have.

you know, some traumas or we have triggers and stuff.

But it was, it was extremely apparent to me early on, which is why we stayed together throughout the whole thing.

As a Packer fan, Dale, I've known about you for a long time.

Nothing too glorious, but I got the shot.

Packer fans love

their

undrafted free agents.

They're very athletic wide receivers.

I knew all about you.

There was a chance.

We were ruined for you.

Green Bay was the most amazing experience for me.

It was a chapter.

To this day, I love Green Bay.

Also, they got Micah Parsons.

I'm aware.

Yeah.

So do you keep, like, who is your team?

Yeah, do you have a team?

I don't really have a team.

I follow the league.

I've hosted, like, you know, during a few Super Bowls, and I still am very involved with the NFL.

But you had it, you had a, you did, you did some stuff with the Vikings, did you not?

No, no, no.

So I was Packers.

I, I didn't have a glamorous career.

Didn't you have, but you scored a regular season touchdown, have you not?

Nope.

You never did?

No, I got a, I was injured toward Labrum, came back to Chicago.

So I was there with Lovey Smith, Mark Trussman.

Okay.

And then maybe you weren't as good as i thought i know it's like oh you're in the middle for a second i was like oh i didn't even know that i played one year of football after turning down i do remember when they signed you i remember this day your your ras score was pretty high yeah i mean 438 40 42 inch per at least i 438 40 a little juice in the legs but uh no it was just a chapter but it gave me so many opportunities after i love the game i love competing But I feel like I'm more connected with the NFL now than when I was playing, honestly.

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If

you guys don't work out, why won't you?

Come on, Nick.

That's an intense question.

Life, maybe?

Like career?

I mean, I think staying in the public eye, like just in general, is hard on any relationship.

Well, he's been so good, though.

Like, I couldn't be with a better person to manage the anxieties that come with that because I love to like get myself worked up and

he brings me back down to earth very quickly because of just his like you're just like grounded in who you are and it helps me like reground myself so honestly that's been our least challenging thing is the public response yeah and for me like I don't the it doesn't really affect me as much as most and it's probably just because I tune out or like I'm so kind of He's always vision on certain things.

But I think if anything, it's it'd be priorities in alignment.

right?

I think like love, like those things are always there.

But for any relationship to work, I always say, and I truly believe this, love is not enough.

It is the most important thing.

But to make a relationship work, there's a lot of other things that go into it.

But we haven't even had that conversation because it's not like a

we're not going into each day, like fearful of.

if this doesn't work out and what that would look like, you know?

But I guess like you, I mean, have you always not cared about what the public has thought about you?

I mean, obviously, like you had a, your stint on the show, but like, did you keep up with any of that?

Or were you always just like, I don't give a fuck.

I'm doing my own thing anyways.

I mean, when you're going through like some smoke, like obviously some stuff seeps in, but I've, I mean, I've been kind of under a microscope since I was a kid.

Like I was the only, you know, black kid in my community till roughly sophomore year in high school.

Wow.

I didn't know a lot of my mom's side of the family because of, you know, a biracial marriage and some disagreements there.

I was the top athlete since I was a, you know, Gatorade player of the year in high school.

We had no pro sports teams, dual sports star in college.

So like, I think like attention and awareness, I was always aware of my surroundings, but I never fed into it too much because I know how fast like things can change.

And then fast forward, just being in New York, I was around a lot of circles and stuff that,

you know, I never really, really share.

It was just like, it is what it is.

Now, I think fast forward to like after Claire and I split, obviously we were in the pandemic.

I think it was one of the most viewed shows in his or like history of the franchise.

And some of those things like, you know, were really, really tough, but you also move through those and then you just put up barriers and boundaries.

And at this stage, like.

My life, the show is an amazing experience.

I'm so happy to be a part of Bachelor Nation, but I've got my business.

I've got my venture.

Like, I've got all my other things.

So like, at the the end of the day, and that's sometimes like, I don't try to hide it from the show in any way, shape, or form.

I just

Yeah, it's just not my entire thing.

But

I'm not doing the cruise.

Sounds like a nightmare.

I would get so suicidal.

Cruises.

I would get so suicidal.

They knew not to ask me because I was

went to Greece.

I took my sister to Greece on a cruise and it was

probably different for.

Yeah, that one would, because you'd be on so much.

Corinne Olympias famously told me once when I said I I hate cruises, she told me I don't know how to cruise then.

There you go.

Cat, I want to address like the elephant in the room when it comes to how the final episode ended.

Alicia.

She came in here hot.

Yeah.

And then we saw it in the finale.

Yeah.

And the finale kind of backed up with her opinion at least.

Yeah.

But obviously she came in here, suggested that you came into Paradise with a boyfriend.

There was the iPad or extra phone accusation and kind of that you were playing the game.

Also, that you and Sean were like homies,

best friends, friends with each other's families, like holidays together, holidays together, et cetera, et cetera.

Sean said as much at the finale, and then obviously you were activated from that accusation.

I would love to just hear your point of view because it wasn't really addressed.

Obviously, you seemed upset.

Dale came to your defense, you know, wanting to be the honorable man that he is.

But I'd just love for you to address it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it was, it obviously was a lot in the moment, and then it became a lot in real time a few weeks ago.

When it comes to being in a relationship, I did not come in with a boyfriend.

I definitely did leave with one.

So that's point blank period there.

But what was it then?

What was that?

Was it a completely fabricated story or was it?

It was a story that I think I would have appreciated a little bit more, I guess, conversations with me before things were spoken on so factual and also publicly because you know they no one had a conversation with me prior and i think when you're hearing if you want to speak on something to that extent it should be really like okay this is exactly how it is and was i dating before paradise of course i wasn't going to stop my life i didn't even know if i wanted to do the show yet um and i

was seeing my ex at the time a little bit, but also like I was just not stopping my life, you know, but that did not mean that I was coming in with this idea that I was going to, you know, fake it and then leave.

But I do wish that things were at least addressed with me personally, like one-on-one before things were expressed the way that they were.

And

was this a relationship that you needed to address with that person when you left?

I think that, no, I mean,

no.

I came into paradise saying like, this is going to help me figure out what it is that I need to do.

That relationship, I have have no ill will towards him at all, but it wasn't the healthiest.

I think he can agree with that.

And, you know, everyone's kind of, I think, can understand maybe what that feels like.

And I really did want to

use this experience to kind of help me see things more clear and kind of break away a little bit, which is exactly what it provided.

So maybe, yes, there could have been like a conversation, but not like I'm breaking up with you conversation, if that makes sense.

Or like, hey, like, I have, you're not my boyfriend anymore.

Like, no, I think think he can also agree that that was the situation for what it was but

you definitely had a conversation though after filming with well i had to because you know i i wanted to clear up if there was also anything that was said to him that may have been misconstrued or misunderstood because i'm not i didn't know exactly what was expressed to him from sean and alicia so i wanted to like oh they they reached out to him Yeah, they called him.

Oh.

Yeah.

What were the receipts that they were referring to?

You know, so I, based on what I've been told, there are are no actual receipts.

Um, so I'm not sure.

I have receipts from my therapist, though.

She said she'd release my clinical notes to improve that I didn't have a voice bag.

I said, let me sign the patient release form.

But I mean, I hear you like, and listen, it's a tricky thing with

it comes to bachelornation.

I hear like not stopping your life.

I don't think anyone, if they're really being honest, goes on this show.

anything other than open to the possibility of maybe meeting someone, knowing that like they probably won't.

Right.

And I think everyone who goes on the show

i came in

for the opportunities that come with it right like you're an idiot if yeah you would say that if you only show up for love you're kind of crazy well i mean that is what i did before um and that did not work out very well so i was like you know what i came in all these other times like

so focused on leaving in a relationship and that's all i wanted right and it i had a failed engagement and the experience was not the best even during so i wasn't coming in like super hopeful but i was open to it but i just didn't want to put that pressure on myself and i feel like if i had stopped my life before completely i mean i to be honest i signed my contract at stage coach like i i literally decided like right before i left like i'm not kidding i started wearing everybody's clothes because i was like i didn't prepare for this but that's where i was coming from it wasn't like i i just wanted to be very like realistic with this situation and the experience but the last thing I expected was to actually like meet an adult and like form a real relationship the way that we did, which honestly, I think is what makes it even better.

Cause when you're not going in with that idea, things can really form.

So, did they make up you sneaking in an iPad or did you have an iPad?

I did not have an iPad.

I did not have an iPad during filming.

I did not have a laptop.

No, and like, guys, like they have not been shy about showing people on this season.

I think if I had those devices or messages on my arms other than my tattoos,

the messages on the arms.

Like Jill said, I only have spray tan and tattoos on me.

So, but I think that would have been shown.

I think that would like, I don't think they were afraid of that right so no there was no communication to the outside world through any electronic device why do you feel like they're they made that up about you i'm not sure where they were coming from with that which is kind of why i wish that that was like a conversation that at least they addressed with me i mean i i also just my sense even because you see things back and you see some of the itms and the conversations and stuff and like Obviously, there was some, you know, some frustration and some hurt there.

And I don't know, some people move past it pretty quickly.

Others take it to another level.

How did you deal with it?

Because obviously, like you guys barely knew each other in paradise.

You're getting to know each other.

You don't really know who each other is until you get outside of the show.

So when you are hearing these accusations in real time, certainly like you came to Kat's offense.

You wanted to protect her.

But like, it was clear that, you know, it's how do you know what to believe?

So how did you work through that knowing that it was like, it would, you would be crazy to just dismiss the accusation without

at least following up and just wondering what is true, what's not true.

Because again, like these are very weird elements.

It's a weird environment.

So how did you work through it to like not have this ruin whatever trust you guys built leading up to that moment?

Yeah, I think like in that, in that moment, like I

heard what was said, what was, you know, shared, but ultimately it's like whatever.

is going to happen moving forward, we're going to figure it out after the fact.

So in that moment, you know, I saw a cat being attacked.

um i didn't take anything too deep and too personally i was just concerned about her well-being making sure that she was you know felt safe and obviously she had to take a moment to kind of kind of do her thing um and my focus also was like look whatever it is like i'm 36 years old like there's real that goes on in life like

if this is something If there's any truth to this, if this is what we have to like go through, like this is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Also, it's a conversation after the fact because, um, you know, the reality was we could be going home and those things we could figure out, but I wasn't going to pin anything against anybody as truth without having any context or anything.

And if there was any conversation, I was going to go directly to Kat.

We were going to have a conversation when emotions weren't high and just speak openly and truthfully.

So I think that's also too you we came off and that's what June was for, right?

If there was anything lingering or any other questions or this or that.

Also,

you know, if there's any other carryover from that any relationship goes through, right?

Things that spring up that might have been a trigger or something in the past.

So, um, but it didn't affect me.

Like, I wasn't thinking about anything that happened before paradise because all I was focused on was in the moments while we were there.

Um, you know, and I also understood where we finished.

Yeah.

Um, and whatever there was before is something that could be worked through.

Um, because it didn't really matter, you know?

Yeah.

At least not in that moment.

This is like such a breath of fresh air.

Dude, I know, girl, I was so scared.

I was like, I mean, that's, I think, is a testimony to his like securement with himself because I've definitely have been with a decent amount of men that would hear that and their ego and their things.

And they would immediately like not want anything to do with it.

But it is true.

Like, we are adults.

We've been through life.

We are living our own normal life.

Daley, you're just like, I'm better than this guy anyway.

So

i'm just like i like i will say outside of the deaded moment when i it was a trigger and i had a little bit too much rosé um i literally

someone from my team my manager or something and i don't know i don't i don't know what the we were talking about and i was like we're just dead i was like motherfucker no i'm using an incentive no but chat's sitting there like he's speaking in code it's uh i should like deaded i know i get it i get it now i actually use it i use it very often yeah but that things there it's it takes a lot to get a rise out of me.

Like, you know, in that moment,

that was just a trigger of something that, you know, happened.

One of those things that you don't, you don't expect.

But it's also like a moment you look back that like people go through stuff, right?

We've all had, had our moments and we want to prove a point, the logic versus the emotional, the timing versus like, but

yeah, there wasn't, I didn't have any anger towards

really anybody on the show.

Like it takes a lot to get me heated, but also it's like, what's, what's the point?

Like, you know, why give someone fuel to the fire in those moments?

And ultimately, like, I didn't want to do, I wasn't thinking about anybody else in that capacity or that deeply to where it could affect me and really like break and tear me down.

The only person who could affect me on the show was Kat like that.

So that's kind of, it was the approach.

Yeah.

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And Kat, your friendship with Sean.

Yeah, so let's talk about the friendship.

Let's talk about the friendship.

I don't want it to be.

It's very different versions.

Yeah.

And like, that's perception, right?

And I think I just don't want this to ever be a he said, she said thing.

But I'll just speak on my experience.

Give us the she's saying.

Okay.

As long as I'm the she.

Sean and I were friends like first paradise.

We were from the same hometown.

We have mutual friends.

And then we kind of of were like friends after a few paradise, which was two years ago, right?

And we talked about like boy and girl, like dating stuff, right?

He was someone that I talked to about like with John Henry and everything.

But once I moved to San Diego, we didn't really like, it was not like we like talked every day or like monthly or anything.

And so he met my ex twice.

Okay.

So best friends.

I don't know if that's how he wants to call it, but he only met him because.

My ex and I are from the same hometown.

I was home.

And then I was like, hey, you should like, let's meet up like at a bar or whatever and say hi and get like, you know catch up and then that's when he met my ex so that uh was the extent and then as far as holidays same thing i we did not spend the holidays together we were at the same local bar in the same hometown during holiday time because i was home i don't know if you would consider that holidays together but for me that was kind of like where it went and then you just ran into each other at a bar Yeah, literally.

I didn't even know who's going to be at that bar, actually.

That's definitely not spending the holidays.

Yeah.

I'll tell you the bar too.

It was my first time being there.

It was in Tampa.

And I was like, oh my God, classic.

Everybody in Tampa, like everyone is like around the same goes the same places so it was that was he met my sister there because I was with my little sister it's not like he's like friends like hung out I think some of the they hung out my sister like no she was just with me um and I don't know what the comment was about with my mom like I think my mom maybe like DM'd him maybe at one point like saying like thank you for being like a good friend to cat back in the day and then but when I was going on paradise I was like hey are you did you get a call they just called me and that's when we started like talking again but still like i mean i have received i can show you we aren't like bffs i do think he felt connected to me because we did have that common ground so i feel like that's maybe where he was coming from and felt hurt like as if he was betrayed um but we were like we were friends but i wasn't considering us a close friend so i guess i can give context to i think how this was misconstrued was when um it was right before we started line like roaster it was like cocktail party and alicia was went to approach sean and he was talking strategy again And I watched her like walk away and get emotional.

So I went to go check on her like, are you okay?

Like everything okay?

Cause I hadn't seen her all day and I didn't know if she knew what Sean was doing.

So I wanted to make sure she was okay.

And that's when her and Priesta were saying there, she's like, he's just talking strategy again, whatever.

She's like, well, isn't he like one of your good friends?

Like, what is this blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, well, I wouldn't say like good friend.

So that's how I remember it.

And the last thing I thought was that that was going to be like taken to the extent that it was.

But that's how I remember the situation.

I mean, I'm sure she might remember it a different way or similarly, but that's where I was.

It's also just, you know, you're in a,

it's, it's heightened situations, row ceremony night.

Some things can get taken out of context.

I mean, being familiar with this

world,

your story does sound very believable.

Okay.

I don't want it to come off.

Like, it's like, cause there experiences that too, you know?

Well, I mean, I just, the word friend or best friend, boyfriend or girlfriend in Bachelor World is often thrown around fairly loosely.

And a lot of people in this world want to feel connected to this experience.

There is definitely,

I've always said this world is very high school.

There's definitely like a hierarchy.

Clicky and yeah.

Whether that hierarchy is just internalized by each individual of their perception of who is a villain or who is popular.

And they, you know,

I don't know what Sean thought of you, good or bad, but I have, I'm aware that people will oversell relationships.

Right.

And we had that competition factor.

I don't know if that's what was going on, but you're, you're, you know, assuming you're telling the truth, and I'm not,

you are, but like, uh, spending, uh, meeting up at a bar in the same town and having one person say we spent the holidays together or saying we're best friends because I've had moms reach out to me and thanks for their support.

And I was like, I've met them once.

I, you know,

my mom loves to do that too.

I get what you mean.

But I think also like, I am never like afraid to be my full self.

And

I'll always own anything, like, whatever that may be.

I also am very aware that I can sometimes be in my own world.

So like, if there's something about me, like, I, I stand on everything I say and do.

I'm very, like, try to be as authentic as possible.

I kind of should probably learn how to not be a little bit sad times.

But In that moment, even with Sean, I, I, I, I didn't agree with his actions.

I thought that he was moving very like uncomfortably.

And that was like our moment to talk about it, which is kind of like what I thought that conversation was going to be.

And it turned into something a little bit more intense.

Do you think their accusations at the time in which it came sabotaged you guys?

Or do you think you guys probably would have been the ones to leave regardless?

I think they, that was their goal.

We were out.

You think you're out regardless.

We were out regardless.

Oh, yeah.

Once we didn't win that challenge, I didn't think

on it.

Like, yeah.

Honestly, it was was kind of confused, honestly, with like how people got by in the next round or not.

But yeah,

it wasn't the fact that we, you know, when we didn't win the

physical challenge.

When you lost it for the team.

Yeah.

Oh, he was, oh, poor.

I was literally going up to Andrew being like, how do you handle like a guy that's like been an athlete and like lost?

Cause he's really upset and I don't know what to do.

Like, do I just let him talk like twice?

Do I try to support him?

Like, I don't know what to do.

It wasn't about the L.

It was going into it.

I felt vulnerable for the first time in my life, physically, probably.

Yeah.

And it was, I was, but whatever.

How did it make you feel to hear Sean say that like all of the women were going to be, what do you say, voting against you or they

didn't like you or something?

He made some comment to you sitting by the earlier.

Yeah, it didn't even make sense.

I don't remember that comment.

I thought it was a little bit more like that.

Because did they even air it when it's like,

no one likes you?

I think Alicia is on the chopping block, not Kat.

Yeah.

Well, I just didn't, it was really confusing.

So my first concern was like, let me go talk to the girls.

And like, where is this coming from?

And then that's when I spoke to them.

And they were like, because I wasn't around when he was having conversations with people earlier in the day.

And they're like, no, this is kind of how Sean's been all day.

Like, that's not how we feel.

We were worried that like you were like kind of like separating from us.

Looking back, I've learned that people had like very different opinions than I thought they did about me.

Watching it back has been very interesting from that place.

but I don't know.

I was just confused by the timing.

Like, I'm like, this maybe would have had a better conversation tomorrow because, like, it's worth ceremony.

Speaking of humans, I want to read you a DM I got from one of your peers.

Oh, I'm so scared.

Well, it's harsh.

I'm going to give you a heads up.

But I want to give you a heads up because I'm not.

Is it going to hurt my feelings?

Probably.

But

I did not know who's doing that.

But in fairness to you, I just want, it's going to be a heads up because aren't you guys going to be recording with these people later?

I just saw, I'm so sick of my feelings being hurt.

It'll be fine, but I want to give you an opportunity to defend yourself because Paris is

saying, you know, see, this one's saying, man, I live this, I live in my life.

She's going to come, she's going to come for you.

So I'm just going to give you.

Oh, she is?

I'm assuming based on what she wrote me.

Really?

Really?

See, this is what I'm saying.

Like, I literally

go for bros.

She's so nice to me.

She sent me a huge colour.

I'm just going to, I'm just going to read.

I just want you to have a chance.

When was this sent?

Like two weeks ago.

A week ago.

She's like, hi.

Kat was a bully the entire time in paradise.

Everyone was scared of her.

So nobody ever said anything or stood up to her.

We did run into Zoe in New York who kind of said the same thing.

Wait, finish.

It was basically just like, I love you.

It's not that blah, blah, blah.

It's not that much.

Then she wanted to also stamp.

I also want to speak up about Brian because there are so many things that weren't shown.

But yeah, she just called you a bully.

It's not.

Do you think I'm a bully?

It's...

No, I don't think you're a bully, but it's not that deep.

Like, that's what I like.

I think maybe what she...

but if people are going to have a pain.

At the end of the day, people are going to have a pain.

Was Parisa one of like your girls?

Like, do you feel shocked by that?

Or are you?

Yeah, we were, she was coming to me about Brian.

Like, I'm not going to cry right now.

Hold on.

I don't want to be like that.

No, I just, it's hard.

This is hard.

Watching people like

be very like.

It's like,

but this is what this, unfortunately, is what this works.

It's just crazy.

Everyone wants to like everyone wants to get a word in.

Everyone wants to get the last word.

It's so confused.

because like the thing is if yeah you want if you want to like try to understand everyone's reasoning you're going to drive yourself crazy because you're not going to find it i just don't know what's real or not you know like but it's opinions yeah but it's like so in these moments like yeah we were she was coming to me for advice about brian like because i saw a lot of myself in her and i think she had a little bit of like anxious like and i could understand maybe where he was coming from so like

We would get ready for like roast ceremony and stuff too.

And like we were in the room, even with like Alicia, like that's and like Zoe was my roommate and like means that we connected about our childhood like I was standing up for her against Brian Zoe didn't like Parisa either so didn't she didn't like any so hearing the things that people have just been saying yeah so she wasn't taking sides yeah I just uh

it's confusing because it's like what's real or not you know we're friends is Parisia and Alicia really close they were roommates okay I don't know I don't know where they stand today but like

being called a bully is like I don't my intentions are always like to help people, right?

Like, or like, if they're going to come to me for things, I am a passionate human being.

I am Italian.

I speak very intensely and I care very deeply.

And maybe that can understand.

I've, I've watched stuff back.

I've learned that about myself, like, that it can be perceived a certain way.

But I think I've the amount of time that we spend with people.

What do you think she's going to?

I don't know because people are so, I had no idea at least she didn't even like me.

Like, like, we were friends.

Like, I was comforting her the night of the rose ceremony.

Like, I've been there for free throughout the Brian Lee.

You can do everything right and people are still going to have opinions and i think that's one of the things that like i will say like in this world you know whether some people agree with me or not if there are some people who feel shortchanged about their time and convince themselves uh that they are the victims of of something do you feel like it's just parisa not getting rid of her airtime or attention?

Or do you think there's a specific example that she's going to bring up where you maybe just didn't remember that?

I I don't I don't think I mean you can speak to this but you

that's not a that's not an answer that you can come up with you know I have no idea

if your entire

yeah of like your only Parisa can answer Parisa is good and positive and like she loved Parisa she stuck like stuck up for she's like I can see where she's coming from her you know some of the anxiousness here like I've been in her position I feel for her so much and so deeply so Kat was a fan of Parisa.

I don't know what your guys' conversations were like one-on-one, but I'm just saying based on the things that you have told me.

And even,

you know, before the stuff with Alicia and Sean, you never said anything bad about Alicia to me.

There was never any conversation.

And maybe that's because we were so focused about our own stuff.

It's not that what everyone else was doing or saying didn't matter.

It's just like we were focused on our world, you know?

Like that makes sense.

So maybe they felt like they were entitled to your attention more than no, I don't don't think that.

If you have opinions, sometimes people are going to perceive and take them the wrong way.

I mean, I think this also, like,

obviously that was tough to hear.

I think this like gives you something to go into this.

And like,

I thought we had this friendship, but like, clearly you don't feel the same way.

Like, you're going.

I just wish you wouldn't have conversations.

Like, pitching yourself to go on shows by like talking about it.

Nobody wants, nobody tells me how they're feeling.

Like, if I'm making you feel that way, like, I would love for you to say, hey, you made me feel this way.

Like, let's talk about it before just putting a characteristic to me or, like, saying things with so much, like, intensity so publicly.

But then it doesn't give them the, the, the attention.

Yeah, I, so, yeah, I don't know what their goals are, but nobody that has said any of the things, any of the accusations or spoken on my character, like has had a conversation with me or gotten to know me to that extent, or at least expressed their concerns with me so we can work through it.

Because for me, we're friends.

friends like right in your defense i was i read that and was like well why don't they show it what why wasn't it on the entire scene if you were a bully to you girls or if you were i've seen i've seen people made to be villains over nothing over real you know yeah um so if you were in fact a bully but if i made her feel surprised not to have seen that but if that is how i made her feel in in any way i was not aware of that based on how our interaction

and i would have loved to have because i understand that like sometimes I don't see like how I make people feel like anybody can and I appreciate when someone can just be like honest like I don't like when moving to California I learned like people can be a little bit like nice to your face but feel a certain way and I grew up you be as real as possible and sometimes that could be taken as like being a bitch

um or just if you're direct i'm very direct some people can't handle that but yeah

yeah and that's but if i make you feel that way i would love to have a conversation about it you know like i never want to make anybody feel like I like bullied.

So that I, I, I,

I know, I know.

It's not you.

It's everything.

Cause it's been a few things now where I'm just like, man, I don't want to like go through life like not trusting people.

And girls, for me, like, I, I

stand with women almost too blindly.

Like, it's not even in my bloodstream to stand with a man.

So like hearing like girls like be so.

like like so much like unkindness towards another woman in a world where we are already facing enough enough adversity, we should be supporting each other and uplifting each other and wanting people to see our hearts.

And there's just been a lot of not that, and it's hurtful.

Do you feel like Zoe, Alicia, and Parisa are two-faced?

I don't know what their experience is because they haven't expressed it to me.

Right, but that's what I'm saying.

Like, if they've been very nice and kind, liking your Instagram pictures or responding to your stories, or like, I don't know, has never brought up some sort of issue, but then is going back and like DMing someone to like get on the show to bash you.

It's like, that's two-faced to me.

Yeah.

I just, it's just confusing.

Like, again, Zoe and I were roommates.

I didn't even know she had a feel for Dale.

Like, that's how little I knew about people.

Like,

I learned that watching it back.

So I don't know what their intentions are.

Maybe things settled and like they feel that type of way, but I think you should always have a conversation with that person.

If someone makes you feel that way, talk about it.

Maybe they didn't feel comfortable and they felt more comfortable sending a dm to someone else or you know like speaking on things on a podcast i don't maybe you get a chance to ask her the thing is my therapist told me is that um to not try to figure out the whys of of people's behaviors because that's going to drive you crazy yeah because i i always want to try to understand and maybe it's because i try to like control it's a control thing if i can understand that i can brace myself but i've learned to like just accept and um because i it's just gonna yeah it's gonna drive me crazy because i can never really understand where where someone's coming from.

But yeah, that's a lot.

But no, I, I, I, I, yeah, I feel.

I think you answered it.

Yeah, I think you're good.

Good word.

That's just crazy, man.

This thing, watching, this has been very different than previously.

Listen,

your best defense is the fact that it is surprising they didn't say anything to you.

And this is information that's catching you off guard.

And also, we didn't get to see it on the show.

I'm so surprised it didn't air.

Yeah.

So surprised surprised it didn't show me writing messages.

I was a little annoyed at the editors when I heard that.

I was just like, well, I could have used that in episode five.

Obviously, it was a little boring.

I know, right?

Where's the iPad footage?

I would love to see that.

Yelling.

That's what I'm saying.

There was iPad versus laptop.

Like, it's like, let's, let's just have, if you're going to say things about people and the way they moved,

I think let's make sure we have everything aligned.

Well, thank you guys for coming.

Yeah.

Wishing you guys the best of luck.

Thank you for having us.

I appreciate it.

I hope that, yeah, we'll see what happens.

We're wishing you guys.

We're very excited to finally start posting all the pics and like being a real couple.

No more

hiding.

How would you like to be proposed to?

I don't think about that anymore, Nick.

Okay.

I couldn't even tell you, Howard, for what?

Because I, it's listening.

I don't even know.

I think you lay flat on the ground.

I don't know how you're doing.

He knows I wear gold jewelry, okay?

I only wear gold.

I'm a believer.

And like, a man is only successful as his woman sets him up for a moment.

I don't trust me.

When we get there, he will know everything

right now.

They're just enjoying learning about each other.

Regardless of this relationship, you must

all have what we want in our head.

That's what I just has nothing to do with day up.

I just want to know.

How I want to be proposed to.

Not on television.

We'll start there.

Okay.

With a gold ring.

Number two.

Do you want it documented?

Do you want to have a party with friends afterwards?

I do.

I think an engagement party the day of is the best thing because then like everyone's excited.

Like that would be really fun.

Honestly, your guys's proposal was like goals.

It was.

It was so perfectly executed.

I told him, I said, I want it.

He's like, I want it documented.

I want to party with friends out there.

Oh, he'll have an XL.

Like, I will have a checklist.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

When we get there,

he will know everything.

He'll have a checklist, but I also trust that he's.

He actually has a wish list.

An ongoing wish list that's like for any, for Valentine's Day, for Mother's Day, for birthday, for Christmas.

It's a link.

It's the color that I want.

It's the size that I want.

There's a picture of what I want and a link.

I'm like, you can't.

Yeah, I don't know.

You can't go wrong.

off my dream

like you literally cannot mess it up

courthouse signature and let's just throw a party and do a destination right yeah i plan a wedding in three days he threw an event no seven he's like i threw an event plan like i have no i feel like i just have so much trust with his like judgment of things like this is the first time in a relationship where i can be like okay i i trust you like i i can relax a little bit i have to say it's very

heartwarming to see you in this relationship.

I have always loved how authentic you are, even on a couple of seasons ago when everyone else.

Like you are great to be.

You're very authentically yourself.

Almost your default.

And this is a really beautiful thing to see.

You look very happy.

So you're very happy.

I am very happy.

It's been very fun.

It's been a much better experience, I'd say.

You love.

Despite even the challenges.

I love, like, paradise is one of the best experiences of my life.

I like probably had too much fun, a lot, a little too much rose.

Who did you leave with like your closest friends?

I mean, I'm tight with,

i don't have bad blood with anybody um you know jeremy was my roommate so i still communicate with jeremy uh obviously brian spencer all the time i'm close with andrew uh we don't talk as much like following the show i haven't communicated with sean but regardless of what's gone down like sean and i got along on the show there were now the moments i didn't agree with obviously i don't know like i was just cool with everybody and i was just having having fun i was just like vacation i think we learned about people afterwards a little bit You don't have to answer this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

How quickly in your last experience on this show

did you know deep down it wasn't going to work?

Like after filming?

Yeah.

Whether it was alignment or just

even,

you know, some things with like family and lifestyles that were not wrong.

They were just.

were so different with uh we just had different perspectives and it just became very clear and i think the moment things start seeping into your family, your work and like all these other areas of life, I think that's like a pretty telltale sign.

And you ride through it for a while, but

it started affecting the people around me very negatively and not even to like the partner's detriment.

I think it was just like sometimes you try to figure out the code and you can't find the code and it drives you nuts and you're like, why is, why can't I figure out this code?

And I think it's just ultimately when it started affecting the people around me.

And I think that's kind of a telltale thing for any relationship, right?

Help me learn how to like not be so deliolal.

I mean, you give yourself a break.

You do the best you can.

Relationships aren't easy.

Anyways, thanks for coming, guys.

We appreciate it.

We wish you nothing but the best.

Thank you guys for listening.

Hope you enjoyed this episode.

Subscribe, tell your friends, all that fun stuff.

We'll see you tomorrow.

We got Katie.

From Real Housewives of Orange County to address all the drama that's going on in her world.

Also, we have Cecilia.

You know her from Tinder Swindler.

She's now hosting a new show on Netflix all about relationship scams.

And she is with us to talk about all the dirty Johns that she has been finding out there.

It's a fascinating world.

That's all tomorrow.

We'll see you then.

Bye-bye.

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