E996 Ask Nick - Two Hot Best Friends Are Fighting Over Me

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How's it going?

Good.

How are you?

Good.

What's your name?

I am Taylor and I am 36 years old.

How can I help, Taylor?

I am wondering if I need to leave the country to find a boyfriend.

Did you commit a crime?

Are you running from the law?

Not yet.

Okay.

Why do you feel like you might need to leave the country to find a boyfriend?

I've had the same dating stories that a lot of your callers have, just trouble finding

good guys who i think offer some of the qualities i'm looking for and i was recently in europe and the men were just different i think i don't know if dating culture is there if they're just more forward if they're more willing to approach you or if i just had rose-colored glasses on but i think my experience there just made me question whether my man might live somewhere in europe okay Yeah, well, it's probably a little bit of everything.

I'm curious, like, let's break down.

What are you experiencing here stateside?

And what were some of the that you alluded, you alluded to them a little bit, but what were some of the things that really made you ask this question about, you know, men abroad?

Yeah.

I mean, I live in a relatively large city.

And before that, I lived in LA.

So I have been in large cities and I just find that men either don't approach you or if they do, they don't really take initiative.

And I think even if you go out, sometimes I just don't even see men that I'm all that attracted to or,

you know, have kind of the complete package and are what I'm looking for.

And so when I was in Europe, like we would be out to dinner and the men at the next table would say, like, when you're done, come over and join us, like have some wine with us.

Or they would just be much more open to having a conversation.

it was never creepy or awkward which i think sometimes in the us if someone is going to come up to you maybe they're too aggressive or they're too forward it just seemed like culturally they were just more interested in in talking to you getting to know you.

And it just made things a little bit more fun and exciting.

And so like stateside, is it really just more like just dating culture in terms of the initial stages of dating where it's not necessarily about the men you're dating, but like just it's, you're not even getting that far.

It's the men you're not meeting.

I mean, I would say there hasn't been a guy who I've been like really interested probably in three years.

And I moved to my current city a year and a half ago and just haven't had the best luck here either.

You hate to be the woman who says like dating is hard.

Where are the good men?

But I have so many single girlfriends who have like awesome qualities and their experience is the same.

So what are the men that you're going for here?

I mean, I will take blame.

I probably am interested in the wrong types of guys sometimes.

I think.

And I'm definitely a fixer and a bit of a people pleaser.

So you get down the road with someone.

And then once you're a bit invested in them, it's easy to say, like, I can change them when they're clearly not ready for a relationship or are not looking for the same things you are or not ready to settle down but you know there just aren't even that many options i wouldn't say like i've even had a crush on someone in a in a while and so are you like not even getting into the second or third date i mean the last date i went on the guy i showed up at the coffee place

which was his idea.

He was sitting down.

He already had his coffee and I walked in, said hi.

And he's like, okay, you can go get yours.

So I went in line, stood by myself for 10 minutes.

So immediately

like dick.

And then I told him that I had to go pick up my dog from the groomer after about 15 minutes, which was not true, but I just needed to get out of there.

What was his energy like in those 15 minutes?

Just

lazy,

just like lazy energy.

Didn't feel like he needed to.

I don't need someone to like sweep me off my feet, but like act like excited to be there, excited to have a conversation, act interested, I think.

i'm curious because i'm fascinated by this call because you know obviously like the way you presented it obviously sounds a little silly but maybe there is truth in just like how men in different cultures or parts of the world are are are acting differently you you said you're 36 yeah so obviously still very young but you are old enough you were dating 15 16 years ago right and i'm curious from your perspective have things gotten worse

You know, how have things changed?

Is this something you're noticing recently?

Has it always been like this from your perspective?

Yeah, I mean, I think the pool feels like it's a lot smaller.

Like when I was a little bit younger, there were at least guys who are like, oh, that guy's hot, or that guy has, you know, a great career, great family, is kind, is funny, all the things.

So there was at least a pool of people.

And then granted, you know, there's a lot of bad behavior and people do bad things or it's not a good fit.

But now it just feels like they're just, there's not even a pool of great guys to choose from.

And it's like, you don't know where to look.

And like I said, you don't want to be the girl who's saying like, they don't exist.

Cause I know there's lots of great men out there, guys I know who are my friends, but

it's hard to find them.

And part of Europe could be that.

like you have rose colored glasses on and you're on vacation and it's like a sexier vibe and it's fun and you're more open to it.

But I think just anecdotally, a lot of my friends have the same experience here.

Yeah, I mean, you're probably right with the rose colored glasses and you come in, you're coming in vacation mode with a different energy, but the picture you painted, yeah, that doesn't sound like your typical like group of American men to have that kind of

bravado to invite a group of women over to their table for some wine.

Yeah, we were like getting up about to leave and they were behind us and they were like, hey, like, why don't you come over and have some, you have a drink with us, hang out.

And we just ended up chatting with them we stayed out for a little while did you find them attractive yeah I love an accent what about their face or their heart

one yes two no okay did anyone hook up with anyone I did

the next night with a different person that I met

okay all right so you were really on fire you were feeling you were you were like you were like thinking I'm like I'm on a heater here you know yeah I'm the queen of Europe like

Taylor's back yeah

I listen I don't I don't know if you have this experience because I know you obviously talk to a lot of women and probably have female friends, but if they're asking, do you know more women who are a catch, I will say, than

your pool of male friends?

Objectively, no, I don't think that's the case.

I'm saying that objectively.

Yeah.

Obviously, the girlies are always going to prop each other up and things like that.

I think all people have their flaws and have their toxicity.

This idea that women have remained as eligible and as wonderful as they have ever been, while men societally over time in America have just gotten worse and worse and worse.

I don't think that's the case.

I think there's a lot of reasons why our dating culture has nosedive to what it is today.

I think it's affecting both of the genders.

You talked about how men in Europe approach, right?

I mean, this has been talked about.

I think we've referenced it on this show a few times before, but

there's a lot of women online telling men and young men, do not approach me.

Do not talk to me.

I don't, you know, do not come up to me in a parking lot.

There are there, I saw this one video online.

There is this like very attractive young blonde woman who was like coaching other women online.

Of a man approaches in your parking lot, you scream at him and say, do not approach me.

As if he's like a psycho, you know, and it's like, if you're a guy and you see that, you're like, okay, no, I don't fuck.

And I'm sure this woman was well-intentioned.

And listen, like, we know, you know, I don't even know me explain it to you, but like, there's enough of bad actors of men out there who have done some terrible things, horrendous things, that sadly, all women have a story about fucking a creepy guy.

And creepy men are more dangerous and more scary than creepy women, you know?

And that's just a reality, right?

But yeah.

And so, you know, I think there's just a lot of bad advice in general going on online.

And I think you're seeing the results of that a lot.

That being said, like, what's the age range in which you're dating?

Ideally, it would probably be like 32 to 45, but my preference would probably be somewhere closer to my age, 36.

Okay.

Why?

It's a great question.

I mean, older, maybe a little bit better.

I want kids.

I want someone who wants kids.

I don't mind if they already have their own.

I think I just want someone with like a young energy, regardless of what their actual age is.

Well, I would argue there's a handful of men who might be older than you even say they're mid to mid-40s who live younger than their age suggests and yada yada yada.

I just, you know, you might have to age up a little bit.

Listen, be open to anything, but like because men are developing slower and are even more immature than they were in years, like the chances you're going to find a 32-year-old that you want more than just a good time with is probably unlikely.

But yeah, you know, 45, 50 is a little

old.

But that five number

getting closer than I want.

Anyway, it's just even like, where do you, I mean, yes, if I could.

Are you on the apps?

I'm assuming.

Probably.

I'm on Raya, but I deleted Hinge because it was actively depressing me.

And Raya is most is awful also.

It's just like a good ego boost and fun to see like what single guy is in Copenhagen.

Yeah, but I do think that's probably warping your perspective.

There is a reality out there of how social media and dating apps has affected, I honestly think a lot of the perspectives of women.

I mean,

there's a lot of data out there.

I don't think it's bullshit.

It's real.

And we all know y'all love a tall guy, right?

And the reality is, is like 2% of the men out there are over six foot, whatever.

But it doesn't seem like that online, right?

Right.

And the algorithm knows what y'all like, right?

So you guys are being like, so when you're on Raya, right?

And for the people who don't know, Raya is like a celebrity app that only has hot people on it.

It's just going to warp your perspective, you You know, it's going to warp your perspective

what an eligible bachelor might actually look like in your perspective.

You're going to, how do you not compare the DJ in Copenhagen versus

Chad down the street who's like maybe a pretty solid guy?

Which, to be fair, I don't want the DJ in Copenhagen either.

No, I know, but I think, I do think there is,

I think there's this, listen, I think I'm being real.

I think there's a sentiment that a lot of the ladies have out there that they, that their non-negotiables include a guy who's over six six foot and makes a certain type of living.

I think 85% of the women are going after 10% of the men out there.

I think that's the reality.

There's literally data out there that suggests that's what's going on.

Certainly on the apps, right?

But I think that's also happening just in general, which isn't like, I don't know what you're supposed to do about that, because I do think it's a deeper issue in general.

I mean,

as silly as it sounds, I mean, I'm not saying you should move, right?

But like, I don't know, maybe there's something to be said about like our American culture

over the past several years has almost become too sensitive and too self-aware and too like everyone's online sharing their opinion of what you should or shouldn't do.

And as a result, you now have a bunch of men out there who don't even know how to talk to women, let alone like even think they're supposed to approach people.

in public.

Just lack the general confidence.

There's a select group of men out there just with too many options and they're just leaning into the fact that like they're getting all the matches online and uh and things like that.

But this sounds like I'm just painting an even worse picture for you.

Um, yeah, I am going back to Europe at the end of September into October, and I might just like be more open to what that looks like.

I mean, ideally, I would love to meet someone in person and not online.

And yeah, um,

like what is hard to have

here in your

in the city that you live, what does your week look like between like work and your personal life?

Where, where are you spending your time?

Yeah, I mean, I spend a decent amount of time at work, but I work in an interesting industry.

So I meet interesting people.

I go to the gym.

It's a small gym.

I should probably go to a bigger gym.

I try to go out with my girlfriends and friends.

I don't know.

And when the girlies are going,

it's just like to the bars or restaurants and shit?

Yeah.

And then even when you do go out, like, you're not getting approached much, or I'm looking around and saying like.

Have you ever, do you ever approach?

Oh, yeah, totally.

You do?

Okay.

But I just don't see that many guys lately who I would want to approach, but I'm not shy about that, I wouldn't say.

All right.

I'm curious.

All right.

So when you, were you looking at the guys at the table in Europe?

Did you even notice their existence?

No.

Okay.

That is a data point, so to speak, in the sense, right?

The fact that like, here you are, you're like, you're, you're painting this picture of you in America.

You're going out.

You're not really noticing the men that you, you're not, you're just not even like, I don't even notice guys.

You didn't even notice these men.

The difference between those men and these men is they approached you.

They had the bravado, whatever.

This is something they do.

They mail, they made it safe, organic, and fun.

But the big question is, would you women have said yes stateside?

Where like in Europe, you're like, fuck it, we're here.

Why not?

We don't know where else to go.

Like, YOLO.

Would you, would you have done that here?

I don't know.

I think it depends on the vibes of the guys who were approaching.

Yeah.

But sure.

When you go out to bars,

what kind of bars are you going to?

Like cocktail bars or like more,

not like crazy party scene.

Sports bars?

Why not?

Sports bars.

I do like sports.

A good sports bar is,

you know,

listen, you might get hit on for all the wrong reasons, so to speak, or it might be a bunch of obnoxious men, but it'd be interesting if the girls got together.

NFL season's about to come up.

A lot of Sunday, fun day afternoons, football games.

Girlies get together, get a table at a place that like has the games on.

I feel like y'all would get approached and have a good time.

Okay, we're going to, we're going to put it to the test.

So, I mean, I guess, you know, here we are.

I'm just literally just brainstorming off the top of my head.

I'm like, what the fuck can she do?

I don't fucking know.

Like, I, you know, because I can't.

The truth is, without knowing and having been to Europe, is like, yeah, there's probably a little bit of truth, right?

I would be, it wouldn't be shocked to realize that like maybe men in Europe, yeah, are just like, I don't know.

I think American men, for a lot of reasons don't know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to dating anymore most of them and again the good ones are just being fuck boys because they have so many options

when you're on the apps and 80% of the women on the apps are going after you and like 10% of the other men you you will never run out of options I really think the greatest privilege in modern history is men who are over six foot because the way women treat them.

Yeah, if you're over six foot and you have hair,

you are killing life.

You can honestly, in some cases, could have murdered someone and you'll still probably get a second chance.

Literally.

I mean, it's crazy.

And then again, I think there's also an element of, yeah, would you have said yes to these guys stateside?

I do think whether you y'all like it or not, culturally, the message to men overwhelmingly over the past few years has been, don't be a creep.

We're tired of your shit.

We're tired of the way you've been treating us.

And again, there's so much truth to that.

Right.

But when you blast out a message to everyone, when that message really should be directed to a smaller percentage of bad actors, and then you have those bad actors honestly not listening or giving a fuck.

Meanwhile, this message is going out to all these people being like, just don't be a fucking creep.

That I think you're dealing with that situation.

I do think in general, in the short term, I think women, whether they like it or not, are going to just have to get better at approaching men.

I mean, really, I don't know.

You just got to find the places where the good men are to approach.

Yeah, I guess.

I don't know.

I mean, listen, I, I, I was always a generally confident guy, and I always, you know, I'm 6'2,

good looking enough, have the hair, so to speak.

When I felt confident one-on-one, I had all the, I had more confid, you know, a lot of people would argue, I have too much confidence in my own good.

But I was never like that swaggy to walk up to some girl at a bar and throw a line.

And I was, I was okay, but I wasn't great.

More often than not with chicken out, right?

Yeah.

So I can't can't imagine for and i'm a guy who would generally had a lot of confidence right so it's it's never easy and i think it's even more impossible today honestly it's it's i do think it's a bit of a crisis i do think like not to sound kind of doomsday but i think a challenge i don't know great yeah but it's there's not an easy solution i think culturally like not to like go on a tangent but like My audience is mostly women.

As a male host, I'm proud of that fact that like whatever, you know, I, it's whatever I'm doing, right?

Empathize with women and do it, you know, understand, and I've learned a lot from y'all.

I wish I had a larger male audience because I think, I wish more men would be interested in this type of, of stuff.

I think we need better role models.

And I don't know, like this, the discourse needs to change around men in general or men and women or whatever, but there needs to be kind of a dating revolution that's not in digital.

I hope I'm lucky enough to have a son because I hope that I can, at least with my kids, raise up my son to be everything the modern man isn't today.

You know, because it feels like we've talked a little bit about this with some of the recent shows.

We've covered like Perfect Match and Bachelor in Paradise, where it's just like, I think young men have learned to be more sensitive, so to speak.

They're like in touch with their feelings, but like

not necessarily in a mature sort of way.

They almost feel like entitled.

It's like now they know how to communicate their feelings, but now their feelings are more valid than anyone else's.

It's weaponized.

Yeah.

And it's just like, okay, that's not what I meant by being more vulnerable, but like, sure.

They're more vulnerable, but not empathetic.

Well, because a lot of it is they just don't know how to be around women.

They don't have experience.

They haven't heard from women.

All they hear from women is what they're hearing online, and that is that they suck.

And then so women become the enemy of the men.

It's just, it's a fucking mess.

But whatever.

That's neither here nor there.

And that's, you know, things aren't going to get better anytime soon.

So as someone who's your age at the time in life, let's not, let's not focus on what's wrong.

Yeah, I think you literally, like, you got to challenge yourself to mix it up.

And honestly, with football season coming around, sports bars during the day, it's more of a hang vibey thing.

I think a group of young, attractive women at a table will stand out at a sports bar.

You're going to get approached.

And listen, you're going to have to deal with the douchebags, and you know, which I'm sure you're used to.

You know what it's like to deal with the riffraft in the pursuit of something nice.

I think the big takeaway is you all have to, you're going to have to be willing.

And that's something I think in general, none of us are good at, is you're going to have to be willing to get to know men that your initial instincts wouldn't be to swipe right, so to speak.

Right.

You're just going to have to, you know, because I think feel lucky and surprised if you happen to run into the hot 6'2, 6'1 guy who's single and available out at the bars, but in the middle of the

visible.

That doesn't exist anymore.

I mean, if that is honestly honestly part of your criteria, I think you do need to adjust your criteria.

If you're looking for the like, oh my God, he doesn't even know how hot he is.

Come on.

He knows.

I think social media has warped the perspective of women more than it's warped the perspective of men.

Well, I think, yeah, because it's so easy to compare yourselves.

And then you think, look at all these.

I think it skews your view of like.

the women that exist in the world and it skews your view of the men that exist in the world.

Yeah.

Because like you said, you didn't even notice these guys in Europe.

The difference is they approached you and because you were on vacation, you were just like, fuck it.

Where if that happened here, you'd have been like, I don't know, it's getting late.

I have to work tomorrow.

My dog's waiting for me.

I'm just going to fucking go home.

I don't know, whatever.

And I don't even, there's only one, there's three of us, and there's only one hot guy and whatever.

They don't have accents.

And I think you have to like, yeah, be surprised.

I think because there's less and less men with the bravado and the confidence to approach women, whether we like it or not, I think that is the reality we live in.

And I think we have to adjust our new reality.

And I think the reality is, is that if you're sitting around waiting like I think people could 15 years ago, I mean, 15 years ago, dating apps weren't what they were.

Most people weren't even on them.

And if they were, they weren't even talking about it.

It was like, eh, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

I'm not embarrassing.

It was embarrassing.

And you thought you could lie about it because like no one cool was on it.

And so, yeah, people were just had to.

be more social in public.

They had to go out.

They had to make moves.

That's not the reality anymore.

And then within that, like we've confused people how they're supposed to act.

The good news is, is

a lot of the people that's really affected are in their 20s and mostly, I'm guessing you're not really fucking with most of them.

I do think you guys, I think you and your friends should maybe age up a bit.

Like to what?

Like 50?

Nah, I mean, like 40s.

I think there's a handful of guys like me who were unlucky in love in their 20s, had all the confidence in the world, had success with women, knew how to talk to and about women, didn't work out for them, were comfortably single for a while, and then pursued, you know, got their shit together, so to speak, and

they might be available.

But yeah, I mean, who knows?

I mean, who knows?

But I really, it's,

I think there's something there with the sports bar kind of thing.

I don't know.

Okay.

A European sports bar.

That's where I'm headed.

A European sports bar, yeah.

I do, yeah.

And I just think extracurricular activities, like what are you guys doing outside of work in the bars or like in dinners?

Like run clubs and that kind of thing.

Yeah.

I'm not super into that.

What about beach volleyball or something?

I don't fucking know.

I just, there has to be.

Kickball leaves.

The one good thing you have in all the single and anyone listening who's relating to you and even the men out there is that everyone feels this way.

Like this is a problem.

You know what I'm saying?

And my optimistic hope is that like as a society, we're going to be like, there's a problem going on.

There is an epidemic that people want to meet each other.

I mean,

we haven't talked too much about it.

It was announced not too long ago, but Nally and I are hosting a new show for Netflix.

And I don't want to give too much away, but I was encouraged because part of the show was essentially a big mixer.

And we, through casting a bunch of people from different walks of life and different ages and things like that, it was really encouraging.

how excited the people were and grateful that we got together a large group of people who all were just like excited about meeting people and everyone was fairly eligible.

Well, everyone was eligible.

And the result was great, right?

And what I, it, what it told me is that like, yeah, people just don't know how to meet.

There's just so many roadblocks and barriers and obstacles to meet.

But when you get human beings who are single and available together, connections will happen.

And yeah, if you could like curate a room of

people who might have similar interests be at a similar stage or a single link that's awesome it's just hard to find those rooms maybe there's a business idea out there for you and your friends in your city go to the sports bar find out then talk to the sports owner right and be like hey i have this crazy idea can i host some kind of mixer blah blah blah i don't know i don't know maybe maybe that's silly or stupid i don't know And yeah, when you listen, start small.

And then, you know, any business idea is going to have its growing pains.

You know, the wrong people are going to show up and whatever.

But like the demand for love hasn't changed.

And the supply chain of how people are meeting it's all fucked up

there the desire for people to meet their person start a family if that's in what they want to do hasn't gone away and that's the one silver lining we all have you're gonna have to look in the mirror because complaining about your options regardless if that's true or not it just doesn't accomplish anything and there's definitely changes you and your friends can make or at least try different things out because whatever you're all doing right now isn't working.

I don't have a problem with getting off hinge because you find it frustrating.

The fact that you're on Raya and not on any other app, I think is a problem.

You know, it's no, I think it's more like entertainment value in you.

I know, but so is porn for some men.

And you could argue that porns, you know, truly, all jokes aside, is like ruining dating and ruining sex and ruining relationships.

And we have to be careful about how we are entertained because it might be fun, but it is, I think, affecting a perspective.

How can you possibly go on Raya and then go on any other apps and be excited?

No, I don't feel great when you're excited.

You lived in L.A.

You lived in L.A.

You know what it's like to hang out in L.A.

and then go to any other city in the world and just go out in public.

Like every hot person in every county ever moved to L.A.

The sixes in L.A.

are tens everywhere else, type of thing.

Men and women.

And so

it's, and that's what it's like to be on an app where it's only hot people.

It's dangerous.

I'm getting rid of it.

But to your point, it's just like a validation thing where

everyone out there just wants to know

how many hot people they can match with.

As much as you like have self-love and inner confidence, we all like external validation.

And yeah, and you're right, it is fun because every once in a while you're like, oh my God, Ben Affleck, damn.

Okay.

Swipe right.

I know this was a hard question to say.

Like, yeah, should I just pick up and move to another country?

And we'll dating it better, but I think it's just like, but if you do.

Those are all indicative of where we are.

But when you go to Europe though, like, I mean, have fun with like, and be almost scientific where you are, you know, last time you went, you had this experience and it made you go back, huh?

Is it different here?

But now when you go, pay attention to how you move.

Not only pay attention to how they move and ask yourself, what, what am I doing differently than I would here?

Try to replicate that same energy when you're here.

Because there is something about traveling or moving to a new city where you free yourself up from the self-judgment and you just, you move differently.

If you're always going home early or not, you know, then like the best times on vacation is when you do things differently and say, well, I'm on vacation.

So, and then you're like, we just had one of those nights.

When was the last time you gave yourself permission to have a night like that here?

Yeah, never.

So, you know, before moving your life,

I would try that out.

Yeah, I think a big part of it is like your own energy when you're in a new place and like how you present yourself and how you feel and how open you are.

Whereas we get into our routines at home and like you're around the same people and you're kind of like, okay, it's the same thing.

And at home.

And clearly those men realized that you were a bunch of American women and they probably gave themselves permission to like do something maybe they wouldn't do with women in their community.

Right.

I could picture some American men seeing a group of women and, you know, and realizing they were, you know, not from here.

Then they'd be like, yeah, fuck it.

I don't give a shit.

She lives in fucking Australia.

Fuck it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's a little bit of truth to all that, but it's like, try to replicate the things that are working for you when you're traveling.

I think you have to be more aware of like the energy you're putting out and how people are perceiving you when you're home and you're just

nothing's new or exciting.

Apps will always be somewhat useful as long as they exist.

And that is how people are meeting people.

So it's hard for me to say don't go on the apps.

But I do think culturally we need to change how people are are meeting because yeah, the desire is still there.

And I do think there's great, there are, there are great men out there.

There are.

I agree.

They're just hard to find.

Yeah.

But I think they're hard to find because I don't think they present as super sexy eligible.

You might not have an immediate crush on them.

I mean, the reality is the guy that you see across the restaurant or the bar that you're just like, oh my God.

He's fucking a lot of chicks.

You know what I'm saying?

You know, like.

I mean, most of the guys who I've like grown to have an attraction to are people that I worked with.

And then like over time, you saw them for the first time.

You're like, oh, like Bob's cool.

But then like you get to know them and you're around them and you, there's like no pressure.

And then attraction grows.

I absolutely believe in that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're just going to have to try things out probably before you move to Europe.

I'll stick around a little longer.

All right.

All right.

Well, hopefully this was helpful.

This is one.

Yeah, it's hard because it's such a general like solve dating, Nick.

I wanted to challenge you.

Thanks.

well keep us posted we'd certainly always love an update if you find any data or feedback I will send it in but yeah I think like a group if you're going out to dinner with the girls you're just not gonna get a pro you know like we've been told not to approach you especially at dinner oh my god like what

what kind of psycho man would do that you know in America

His friends would be like, do you want to get shot?

I should start sending drinks to the tables of men.

Honestly, there's definitely an element of like, we're just going to have to fuck around and find out and try things out and not take ourselves so seriously and mix it up.

And in the meantime, maybe you can create a small business, a mixer in your community or where, you know, because people, there, yeah, there are people out there.

There is a lot of lonely men in your city.

Wherever you are, I promise you, there are lonely men.

Okay, I'll send you a cut if that business takes off.

No, I don't need it.

I'm good.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

All right.

Take care.

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How's it going?

Hi, Nick.

Going well.

My name is Allison.

I'm 33 years old, and I want to know if I should ask out out my doctor.

Okay.

Yes.

He's not your gynecologist, is he?

No, no, no.

Good.

That'd be weird.

All right.

Well, tell us about it.

Yeah.

So I've been seeing the same GP for the past like three years.

Got a note recently that he was leaving the practice and that I'd be seeing a new doctor the next time I came in.

Kind of thought nothing of it.

So I showed up for my annual appointment a few months ago, thinking like it would be another middle-aged doctor, um, no one really of interest.

And in walked um, a complete smoke show, like really, really attractive, young guy about my age, it seemed, wasn't wearing a reading ring, just like complete charisma.

And it really caught me off guard.

Get charisma in the office, charisma in the office, yeah,

as the kids say.

Is that allowed for a doctor?

What do you know?

I'm assuming you try to stalk this guy.

Yeah, yeah.

I got all the girls on the case.

What did we find out?

Yeah, so he's

relatively around my age, a few years older,

from the city I live in now.

Originally left for med school, came back into

fitness, music, all the same things that I am.

Seems like a pretty interesting guy.

Is he single?

Do we know?

That we don't know, but I did not see a wedding ring.

Is his Instagram public or private?

Private.

That's tough.

Makes it harder.

How many followers does he have?

I don't remember, but I don't, it wasn't like a crazy amount.

Honestly, follow him.

What are the rules for like patient?

He's still your Instagram following in the modern age.

We had a call like this years back.

I think he was a chiropractor.

And I think I told her to jokingly, I mean, of course, like, of course, you shoot your shot for sure, right?

I don't know.

Yeah.

Especially nowadays, it seems like there are more doctors than eligible men.

So, you know, it's like.

Yeah.

And that's the thing.

Normally, I'm really not one to be forward or even to like contemplate something like this at all.

But I've been single for the past five years,

moved to a new city three years ago.

And the dating scene here is just horrible.

And like, not for lack of trying.

I go on dates, but the guys I'm meeting are just so far off the mark that it's a quick no, you know?

And why are they off?

Why are they off the mark?

I'm living in the south now from the northeast originally.

So I think there are a lot of like

life values that are misaligned here is part of it.

I also think dating in your 30s is interesting because it seems to me the guys I'm meeting are fall into one of two camps of the like Peter Pan's never growing up type of guy or I don't know what I guess only one camp that's what you tend to see out there okay well we'll table that for a second let's get back to the doctor yeah actually I I think um I think you send that follow request through I think that's

I think you send that right let's and let's let's um let's break down like what the possible scenarios are scenario number one he's not on very often he's too busy being a doctor and saving the world that he just doesn't he's not on Instagram He's not active.

He never accepts your request because it's just, he's just not on it.

Right.

And so you send that request.

He doesn't accept it.

You get nothing from it.

So know that scenario one of you sending that request.

He could definitely not accept it, but it really doesn't tell you anything.

Mm-hmm.

When's the next thing you're supposed to go to the doctor?

In about a month.

In about a month.

All right.

So you could do that.

And then assume, let's assume he doesn't respond.

You know, you're still, you're just like, that request is pending.

Back up.

You said he has the Riz,

so to speak,

and I found it to be interesting, you know, given that it's a doctor's office.

Do you think he was flirtatious at all?

No, not unprofessional, and it's hard because, like, it's the first doctor's appointment, right?

So, his whole job is like make the patient feel comfortable, get to know each other, etc.

So, then, what was so charming about him?

He looked like he had just stepped off of a boat, not like he was working in a doctor's office.

So just like perfectly disheveled in a way.

Yeah.

Like that, he had like an Oxford shirt kind of unbuttoned a little bit and a little just messy and kind of half rolled up sleeves.

Yeah, a whole bit.

I get it.

But what was his vibe?

Like, I don't know.

Very chatty, very friendly.

very engaging.

And you couldn't read whether it was like you were getting a little extra attention because.

I was so thrown off guard.

And honestly, the whole time I was just thinking, like, oh, God, he's seen my chart.

You know?

What's in that chart?

You know, it's never, it's never, you never write into your doctor with your exciting news.

You know.

Hmm.

You can't find out if he has a girl.

Yeah.

He probably has a girlfriend.

Is he tall?

Average height.

Yeah.

He could.

It could.

I think you send that friend request.

All right.

Because then if he accepts it, interesting.

Right.

Then you could, A, stalk a little bit more.

Yeah.

There's that.

And then let's say there's no evidence of a girlfriend.

If he's single, then he is also frustrated with the dating world out there, right?

There's a good chance he has been just deep in the books, so to speak.

The fact that he doesn't have a wedding ring, I think, is a good sign.

Because I think like from a doctor's standpoint, it's very similar to like being a professional athlete, right?

There's, it, it, it, it comes with a lot of intensity and hard work.

And I think athletes go one or two directions.

And I think it's similar to doctors.

They're either marrying their college sweetheart, so to speak, and they're like locked in.

They know, they, you know, they know that they're professional athletes or they know they're going through med school.

And so they just settle down and they just lock it down and be like, this is the girl I'm going to be with.

And I'm going to start having kids.

She's going to be by my side when I'm going through med school and blah, blah, blah.

And she wants to lock it down early because she wants to make sure that she's going to benefit from this investment,

so to speak, right?

And so typically I think men in that, and these very attractive careers, you know, either get married quickly or remain bachelors for a while because they just focus, you know, then the other scenario is the athlete or doctor who's just, you know, it's like, listen, I'm going to focus on my job.

I'm too young to settle down.

I don't have the high school sweetheart.

In the meantime, I'm going to have a good time and I'm taking advantage.

I'm the good-looking guy who's going to med school or a doctor and I'm going to get a lot of sex and yada, yada, yada.

So the fact that he's not married, good chance he's single.

Maybe.

I don't know.

The big question is, is that whether he's single or not, what are you going to do about the fact that you are a patient of his?

And regardless of what he thinks about you, it's just like he, he, there are probably, there are definitely rules, so to speak.

Bold move of him to ask you out.

That's for sure.

That's not going to happen.

Right.

I mean, I've only seen him for two appointments, so it's not like I'd be plenty fine to find a new doctor.

Yeah, for sure.

But we, I think we're already, like, we're already assuming that if you get a date with this guy, you're just like...

You're moving on.

Yeah, I'm going to have to fire you.

And that's kind of your first joke, right?

You're just like, I think with a woman years ago who called in, she had the hots for her chiropractor.

He ended up having a girlfriend, by the way, it sounds like.

But it was kind of like good news, bad news.

Like, bad news,

I'm actually, do you know any good doctors?

Because I'm actually looking for a new one.

That's, and honestly, that, that, that's the line.

That's the line.

You know, if you DM them, you're like, two questions.

One, do you know any other good doctors?

Because I'm looking for a new one.

Second question, do you want to go on out to dinner?

All right.

You can't send them a message, even if you're not friends with them.

Is that how that works?

You know, I don't even know.

I've never tried that.

I think you can.

They just don't, they might not see it.

It goes into like a special request folder.

Your second option is to go crazy.

And by crazy, I mean just do something that would be pretty bold, fairly brave.

And that is at that next doctor visit.

You know, just be like, all right, I know, like, whatever.

Listen, if I have to switch doctors, I'll switch doctors because I don't want to make this uncomfortable.

But are you single?

And if so, do you want to grab a coffee?

And you're just going to have to get through whatever, you know, if he says yes, great.

If he's like, hey, I got a girlfriend, or I don't think so.

I don't know.

I'm not really, you get any other answer other than yes.

You're just going to have to like grit your teeth and get through the fucking awkwardness and then call up the girlies and have a laugh and just laugh at the situation.

And, but what do you have to lose on?

Yeah.

What do you have to lose other than a little pride?

You know?

Yeah, that's true.

And like, it's, it's so, I don't mean to sound like, you know, like I'm exaggerating, but it's really a slim pickens out there.

I think follow him.

Step one.

If you can send a message,

send that message.

It's a class, you know.

All right.

And it's.

What do I have to lose?

Nothing.

You know, you don't even know if he's a good doctor.

Honestly, he's probably average.

He's young.

He doesn't, he's lacking experience.

He hasn't seen it all.

He can't be that good.

He's got a better face than he, than he does, you know,

doctor experience.

Yeah.

You might be too young to be my doctor, but you're perfect for my boyfriend.

Okay.

And almost certainly, if he is single, this is not the first time he's had to deal with this.

So he probably knows how to deal with this.

Probably true.

I'm going to have to get an update one way or the other.

Yes, definitely.

And if you get any doctors calling in asking if they should ask out their patients, you know where to find me.

All right.

Well, yeah, there's

probably some HIPAA laws against that.

I don't know.

But

there's another good line.

Is there a HIPAA law against

us being a thing?

I don't know.

Do you think you have what it takes to ask them out in a doctor's office?

I'd i'd have to gear up really hard for that that would be hard do you think it's realistic that he would say yes if you guys were both saying like if you met him at a bar i feel like he's more likely to say yes on instagram than in his place of work if i met him in a bar yeah maybe it would just be weird to like give him a note i think a lot of people do that give him a note in person right well i'm just saying if because if

write it into the patient portal if he doesn't accept your friend request you can't assume he saw it.

Yeah, he probably did.

You think so?

You think he's pretty online?

Does it say how many followers he has?

I think it was like 2,000.

It was really not a lot.

2,000 is kind of a lot for most people.

He doesn't have 2,000 friends.

I know that much.

1,300.

For a private account?

Okay.

He's probably, he's pretty online.

His Instagram is probably popping.

He'll probably see it.

He'll probably see it.

Yeah.

Send him that request.

Okay.

And then send him that note.

Okay.

I'm going to do it.

All right.

Well,

I'm invested.

I will keep you all posted.

All right.

Well, good luck.

Can't wait to find out.

Thank you.

All right.

Take care.

Thank you.

I'm rooting for you.

Bye.

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How's it going?

Hi.

My name is Taylor.

I'm 27, and I'm wondering if it is wrong to date this guy when I am more interested in his friend.

All right.

Well, I'm assuming there's a backstory.

There is.

So tell us about it.

Okay.

So

last November, I went to a wedding and I met these two guys at this wedding.

And mind you, at that time,

I was in like a serious relationship and they were both aware of that.

So nothing like inappropriate went down.

But one of these guys definitely kind of made it pretty obvious that he was interested or was just kind of like trying to talk to me, just like being friendly.

And so we like talked a little bit throughout the night.

And it just seemed like we had like a good amount of things in common.

And he seemed, you know, just like a really good, genuine guy,

very attractive, tall, all great things.

And he was like drinking throughout the night.

So, you know, it could have been a little bit of a liquid, like liquid courage.

But at the end of the night, he literally said to me, he's like, okay, if you ever find yourself not in a relationship, come find me.

And I was kind of like, okay, that's very forward.

But just kind of like went about my life, didn't really think anything of it.

Fast forward, you know, maybe six months.

I am not in that relationship anymore.

And I'm fairly certain.

And I mean, now I am very certain that he is in a relationship, seemingly very serious and seemingly, you know, happy with this person.

The guy who made the bold move is the one who's now in a relationship that you're, I guess, more interested in.

Correct.

So

nothing I can really do there.

But the other guy at the wedding that didn't talk to me as much,

but I, you know, still noticed him.

He's a very good looking guy.

He has since reached out to me and asked me out.

And I kind of friend zoned him at first because of this whole situation where I was like,

I really like his friend, but his friend is taken.

But if, you know, by chance, maybe they don't work out, then I want to like have a chance to like to date him and see what that could be.

if i go out with his friend and they're pretty good friends i feel like that would like kind of ruin

any chance.

How did the guy number two call him, the guy who

who you're considering going out with?

Did he just randomly reach out to you?

So we have like a pretty good mutual friend and I guess

he asked our mutual friend about me and like found out I was single.

And then

our mutual friend told me like, hey, he's probably going to reach out to you at some point.

Like do what you want and so he did he like messaged me on instagram did you ask the mutual friend about the other guy um i did um and

they just said like yeah he's in a like a serious relationship i i want to say at this point they've probably been together for like nine months but i feel like there was like just this timing overlap of like a few months where like we missed each other to be clear you don't know much about either of these men correct true yes however so i guess another part of it is like so guy number one we'll call him jack okay that's the guy that i'm like more interested in fake name and then we'll call other guy austin all right fake names but um i guess like the impression that i got from jack and from the people like the mutual people that we know is like he's very much like you know was looking for was looking for something serious um and just like seems way more my type as far as like really nice guy, like very genuine, was just like

looking for a relationship.

Obviously, he is in one now.

And then Austin, his friend,

he kind of like,

it's hard to tell because he definitely doesn't give that same energy that he's looking for a serious commitment.

Because ultimately, I, like, I want.

to get married and like have a family and I date very intentionally and very seriously.

And so I'm kind of like, I don't know

if

he's looking for something serious.

I don't know if he's just kind of in it for fun, like trying to hook up, which I'm not going to hook up with him.

And I think he knows that.

Like he knows that I have pretty clear boundaries.

How would he know that?

So

I did go out with him.

I did go on a date with him.

And

I basically like just kind of said it straight up.

Cause he said something about like, it seems like I'm pretty serious about like what I want.

Like I know what I want and like I don't mess around when it comes to dating.

And I was like, yeah, that's, that's very true.

I don't.

So it's kind of like, I don't know exactly why he's pursuing me if he knows that I'm very serious about dating.

Like maybe he is.

I don't know.

So yeah, I'm like, I'm not.

A couple of things.

I'm just curious.

How long have you been single for?

Since March.

Okay, not that long.

Have you not hooked up with anyone since?

No.

Okay.

And I, as much as I would love to have sex, because I'm definitely a very physical person, but I know myself where like emotions and, you know, emotional intimacy and physical intimacy are very much connected.

And I can get attached

easily.

And I like am very much a hopeless romantic.

So when I fall, like I fall hard.

Yeah, it's great self-awareness.

Right.

Yeah.

Like I said, you know, I've said this multiple times, but like hookup culture has has fucked up a lot of things.

And I think it's fucked up a lot because I think like, you know, like women empowerment and sex positivity, while all are great things, like it doesn't change the reality of how sex impacts all of us

and how it changes the landscape of any dating situation.

Yeah.

And the fact that you are self-aware about what you need emotionally and how sex impacts that.

And the fact that you are able to enforce that boundary for yourself, because that's what boundaries are, is just, that's great and you definitely save yourself probably a lot of emotional distress and frustration by being able to hold that line i appreciate that well we think i've done a lot of work to together that's amazing second part is um it doesn't really you know listen i've said this before i've written it in my book every fuckboy is someone's future partner so to speak yeah you know jack as you called it he's a fuckboy too was a fuckboy you know um

probably probably because he could right and like because he's a guy and

probably detaches from sex like most other guys do in a way that they could fuck around without, you know.

And so I've never, I have never, in my life, as a guy, when a girl says to a guy who has confidence in himself, just so you know, this is how I move, whatever, if he likes you, that's not going to stop him from liking you.

And it's not because he is thinking maliciously, I'm going to get her to have sex with me so I can like, ha ha ha ha ha.

It's just like,

he's just more like, I don't know, I like you, sure.

And that's kind of why I think this is going to be hard because I am trying so hard to keep him out at arm's length that he's just going to want it more.

Yeah.

And he's just going to try harder because he's definitely that kind of guy where.

Yeah, he'll convince himself he's in love, probably, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe.

Let's forget about.

The guy number one, Jack, for a set aside.

He doesn't exist as far as you're concerned in this moment.

Yeah.

How did date number one go?

And are you interested in seeing Austin again?

Date number one was good.

I guess technically we've like hung out a few times, but the first, the first time was like in a group setting.

Sure.

And he, we like went out.

He tried to kiss me a few times and both times I like rejected him.

And then therefore afterwards I kind of like friend zoned him.

And anyways.

Eventually he reached back out and I agreed to like go on a date and it was it was good.

I mean, it was a lot of fun and he very much like whined and dined me and took me to like a really nice restaurant and we had drinks and all this stuff and

yeah, we did make out a little bit and I yeah, I mean, I'm probably gonna see him again like if I'm being honest.

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't care.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah.

So it sounds like there's some interest there.

You like him?

Yeah, I would say so.

Yeah.

I just, I don't want to get too invested and like attached if he's not serious.

And I guess he's got, he's got like everything going for him, except I, the only thing I don't know is there is like the emotional availability part, which to me is very important.

I'm curious, you're like

your last boyfriend, how long did you make him wait before you hooked up?

Not long.

So that's going to be the tricky part for you, right?

Okay.

Because like what you've gotten good at, right,

is knowing yourself, right?

Setting that boundary by like, I'm not going to, I'm not hooking up on the first, second, or third date.

I'm not, you know, like, and maybe in the past, you were just like, YOLO, I want to have fun too.

I like sex.

I should be allowed to do that.

You did it.

You didn't like how you felt afterwards.

Yada, yada, yada.

So now you've made those adjustments.

And yeah, you are dating to find a husband.

You're not dating to like, fuck, right?

Have sex.

The hard part for you is going to be when you like this guy, right?

You're attracted to him.

You've had some good times.

You like where it's going.

What are you going to do on date 14 and you've been hanging out consistently for six weeks?

Because I can tell you that I don't care how many, if you, I don't care if you hung out every day for those six weeks, the fact that he is a guy who is used to not waiting long to have sex

and the fact that you are in 2025, one of the few people out there who has that self-awareness and confidence in herself and can hold that boundary and say, no, I'm not going to do that.

Just makes you insanely attractive to him and every other guy.

Right.

So to your point, he's just going to be like, it's going to be like

a challenge.

A challenge, right?

And so, and with that, he will convince himself it's not a challenge.

You just won't really know the difference.

And all I'm saying is six weeks is, is just not enough time to build a bond with someone where you can really make sure that like sex won't change the equation.

And you're almost going to have to get past a point where it really isn't about the challenge anymore.

He really enjoys spending time with you.

Yeah.

It's, you know, you're going to almost have to remind him just like, hey, you know, it's going to almost sound radical to him where you're going to be like, look, I don't like, if, if a woman, and when I was single, if a woman I was attracted to was like, like really was like, I don't know, we're dating for three months.

Like,

I don't even know, you know, because it's no one does that anymore, you know.

Yeah, um,

but listen, also, I want you to give yourself grace in the sense that, like, that to that point, there's a challenge.

Look at, all right, as far as the other, like, just like, let's just consider Jack for a second, right?

The reality is, you don't know Jack, right?

And you hadn't, you had a great meet with Jack, and he gave you a sexy, confident line at the end that felt was like, oh my God.

And then you were like, you want, you, whatever was going on with your boyfriend at the time, you, he ought, you know, there, there, you told yourself, if I was single, I would have absolutely said yes to this guy.

And as things went bad with your old relationship, he was a reminder for you, Jack, about what, what was, what was available to you as a single woman.

And so Jack represents this idea of this person, and you've definitely built him up in your head.

So there is that, right?

For sure, for sure.

Without question.

Let's assume that all things being equal, you are more compatible with Jack than you are, Austin.

And

this is a sad story of just like wrong timing and it's just things not lining up.

It's just not your fucking time yet.

Yeah.

And this idea that you're afraid of saying yes to Austin because what if Jack breaks up with his girlfriend, you know?

And

if you don't have, this might help you out, but because if you don't have sex with Austin,

almost certainly

that will

be okay.

It'll be okay.

It'll be okay.

And I'm

And

even if you do, I don't know.

Like, listen, it takes a more mature man to not have that bother him.

I don't know how close these guys are, if they're more casual friends or besties.

I think they're pretty dang close.

Like,

if I do start seeing Austin, there's a good chance I would hang out around Jack and his girlfriend at some point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she's going to want to be your friend.

Maybe, which would be so much worse.

I can hold out on sex, but it's like, I guess

for how long to hope that maybe they break up in the next, I don't know, three to six months when maybe they won't.

And maybe they are like supposed to get married.

And if so, like, that's great.

I'm happy for them.

But it's like, there's always like, like, what if?

But does Jack know you're sitting there?

Waiting around.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah.

Actually, yes, he 100% does.

Yeah.

All right.

Then I think that's a data point that you need to acknowledge.

What do you mean?

Yeah, it means he's probably pretty into his girlfriend, and it's going pretty well.

And yeah, it seems like it is from an outside perspective.

From his mind.

Like, I'm not going to get in the way of them if they're in love.

That's great.

You know, I think you need to get out of your head about Jack.

You got to let it go.

I really do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I agree.

He probably knows his butt, his, he probably knows his buddy is going out with you.

Yeah.

And he doesn't care.

And it's fine.

Maybe he does.

I mean, yeah, he doesn't.

He doesn't care.

He doesn't care.

He doesn't care.

It's fine.

He doesn't care.

I mean, yeah, if you took your clothes off in front of him, he'd look, but he doesn't care.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

A guy who has the confidence to do what he did with you at a wedding is a guy.

Like the difference between what you experienced with him and what he experienced with you is,

especially in 2025, you're just not.

I mean, the last two callers I talked to made it very clear, and I know how hard it is out there, of just like they, how hard it is to have a moment like you had at a wedding with a guy who can have a good conversation, seems like he wants what you want, and like hits you with that, like, well,

that like sexy line where you're just like, fuck.

And that makes that left a mark on you.

You know what I'm saying?

And for him,

he's, he's pulling that fucking, he was pulling that, yeah, whether he's looking dating to get married or not, this is a guy who, who knows how to do that, and he is confident in doing that.

And he didn't leave he might have left being like oh what a great girl but like i mean to be fair like a few weeks after the wedding he made an instagram account like he didn't have it in one before and he made one and i was like one of the first few people that he followed and he did end up like dming me at one point just like responding to a random story like just in a friendly way like it wasn't even flirty or anything and i was still in a relationship at that point but i definitely took a note because I was like okay obviously he wasn't that drunk at the wedding and he was still thinking about it like weeks later

which I was kind of like fuck

I mean I guess that doesn't really matter in the scheme of things but there's no yeah there's no perfect path forward right because if you and he doesn't have an Instagram anymore he since then has deleted it again otherwise I honestly would have just DM'd him and said the same shit like if you ever find yourself single again, let me know.

And like, that's it.

But I can't even do that because he doesn't have an Instagram anymore.

He's completely offline.

Yeah.

And that's kind of crazy.

Yeah.

Which is like, okay, kind of a green flag, to be honest.

You know, I think there's, there's not being that online and there's offline.

I don't know.

I don't know.

He like seems like very much like husband material kind of guy, which is why it's kind of hard.

I think you keep seeing Austin as long as you like him.

You take it real slow.

Yeah.

And very friendly.

Okay.

Yeah.

And definitely very slow physically.

And maybe you'll see Jack sometime soon.

The question is, if you see Jack.

The question is, if you see Jack, you're going to have to read the room and you're going to have to see if there's like a grin or an awkwardness.

I just feel like there wouldn't be because he just.

Well, let me ask you this.

Let me ask you this.

All right.

Do you think, the little bit you know about Jack, do you think he's the type of guy to give his now girlfriend a heads up?

About me?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't really know like what kind of heads up he would give.

If I were Jack.

Yeah.

And I met you at a wedding and we had a talk and I was single and I thought you were attractive and where I was flirty with you and I found out you had a boyfriend and I fed you that line and I moved on.

And even if I like left and was like, damn, fuck, man, you know, like I really was feeling her.

And then I even created an Instagram account and kind of like followed up on you and gave a little peek and only to confirm that, yep, yep, she's, in fact, has a boyfriend.

Then I was like, you know, whatever.

She's got a girlfriend.

And then I, well, boyfriend.

And then I, you know, met Natalie, my now wife, right?

And, and then my buddy, who was at the same wedding, was like, I'm, turns out she's Taylor single.

I'm going to ask her out.

And he's like, yeah, well, good for you, man.

Go.

And then I found out that, and then he was like, well, let's all get together.

I'm going to bring Taylor.

I would 100% have told natalie right off the jump i would have been like just just so you know like i definitely like flirted with this girl at a wedding i even asked her out uh now he's going out with her nothing happened but like i would 100

yeah and if and i again if he is a if he's the guy you think he is

he would that's that's the only right thing to do yeah i don't i don't maybe i'm that yeah i don't i don't know honestly i mean i could i could see him doing that for sure wouldn't you if you were her?

Yeah, I would want to know.

You'd wanna know.

You'd wanna know if you were like,

you know, there's nothing worse, right, than being in a group of people and someone knows something that that's juicy about you directly or indirectly that you probably should know or that you might feel a certain way, but they're not telling you because they've decided maybe you don't need to know or they don't want to upset you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I mean, those are the things you want to know more than anything.

I mean, there's a good chance that, like, because we have mutual friends and I've like asked our mutual friends about

Jack, like, there's a good chance that, like, they all know that I've like asked about him.

And, like, Austin might even know that I, like, asked about his friend.

And I mean, if he asked me, I'd be like, Yeah, I'm not going to lie.

Because he seemed more serious about dating and he like kind of

doesn't,

you know?

So, so he still seems like he's unserious about dating?

It's it's kind of like I can't I can't tell how old is Austin he's almost 29 how old is Jack

same age

and like

you've you've talked about this before but they're both very much like in the kind of top one percent of men because they're all so tall yeah attractive like very successful like he owns a home like

over six foot and I'm like fuck I don't even need an over six foot man.

Like, I'm five, four.

I don't need them to be that tall, but he just happens to be.

And so I'm like, he, he, like, knows he's hot.

Like, yeah.

And he's got good, you know, he's got game.

So I'm sure he picks up women very easily.

So

why would he want a serious relationship right now?

I don't, I don't know if I believe it.

Not that he said that that's what he's looking for, but.

But you could just, listen, like you're, you're a confident person and that's a great thing.

And the difference between what I assume is you and a lot of other women out there is like, well, one, it's just tough to be confident out there because of this dating climate.

But like, it's just tough to have the discipline to like set and enforce your boundaries.

And the more you are just more like, I know what I want and I'm just not going to fuck around anymore.

The more attractive, again, like,

whether it's because it makes him or you will be more like that is an attractive quality, period.

Right.

And Austin is going to have to decide whether you're worth it or not you know yeah most guys are full of shit where because they'll say like oh no i want to have a family

pause pause pause dot dot dot someday you know and you're just not sure about when that part is where you're assuming that jack is like you know listen when i find the right one i'm ready

These guys are in their late 20s.

So they're still, in my mind, they're still really young, but in their mind, they're about to hit 30.

And mentally, you know, most guys, even the tall, confident ones are are not if they've had a decade of dating and having fun they're not necessarily like they may it may end up that way but i don't think they're planning and having another decade of just meaningless sex and casual dating they may it may end up that way because they can and dating culture is what it is but yeah you're just gonna have to feel you know i think the more confident you are about what you want and showing more than telling yeah you will find out pretty quickly where Austin stands about even the potential of dating.

Yeah.

And I think you focus on that.

And I think the fantasy of Jack is

just forget about that right now.

For now.

And like, listen, if you end up,

I'll be really curious when you guys end up getting together as a foursome, so to speak.

And I'd be really curious if she already knows and says something to you

because he said something to her.

I would honestly see it as a, you know, what the crazy part is, and this is the kind of fucked up part: is that

let's assume

two weeks from now, this scenario happens, right?

And in two weeks, you're not going to be in love with Austin.

You're not going to have had sex with him yet.

You're still going to be very exploring things.

It's going to be, you know, very casual, very friendly, very chill.

And there's going to be a part of you that's going to want

Jack to give you a look or something or make a comment or or something, some kind of validation that lets you know that while he is single and happy and content, that like it, he didn't forget that time he meant.

And if nothing else, kind of give you the,

yeah, you know, just

not in the cards for us, right?

Like,

it's, it's going to be a bit of a red flag.

If he does that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I honestly don't think he would.

Like, I think he's pretty, like, very respectful.

Yeah.

I guess we'll see but I honestly don't I don't want to get to that situation where I'm around them

with Austin at the same time but I could definitely see it happening so oh do you think you could tell if another woman wanted to was into your guy probably

yeah

But I don't think I have you stalked her would be that obvious.

Do you know what she looks like?

Do you know what she looks like?

Oh, I for sure stalked her yeah and do you think and she's like perfect like

honestly she's seems in like incredible so i she's like don't know yeah she's not like you you're she's your equal so to speak or

you're you get it

yeah yeah

i i feel like i don't even know if i could compete with her so i'm kind of like okay i i get why he's like very much seemingly in love so well maybe she's an emotion maybe she's a nightmare personally i don't know like

yeah maybe because all you know is like what she you you're judging this mostly off of looks.

I mean, no, I would say like

what other people have said or like just, I mean, they have nice things to say about it.

Lots, lots of stalking, too.

Yeah.

She seems like a very nice person.

And

like, I, he seems very healthy, I guess.

So I, it's like, I don't think there's like toxicity.

I have no idea.

I, I think, I think, I think you pursue Austin.

You know, just be very self-aware about your boundaries.

Take it slow.

Listen, if you end up hooking up,

listen, I think you do got to let Jack go.

And let's take Jack out of the picture again.

I don't know how realistic it is, assuming you keep liking more and more about Austin and things just are going in the right direction, that like two months from now and you're feeling, you know, it's you're, you love, you realize that you love spending time with this guy and he's seeming, you're, you're going to hook up with him, probably.

Yeah, probably.

And that might change things a little bit.

And you might regret it, so to speak.

I mean, at that point, I just think it's, I don't think, I guess what I'm saying is like, don't, like, listen, at some point, you can't protect yourself from frustration, pain, disappointment.

And all you can do is what you're doing now, which is be more intentional.

Hold that line a little bit more.

Make sure there at least is some rapport, right?

Like,

you know, I mean, I don't, I don't think I would have sex with him at all unless we get to a point where there's like like a deep level of trust and like emotional connection yeah i know but that's hard to really figure out yeah right and even the whole like if you were i thought you were about to say i wouldn't have sex with him until there was some level of commitment but even then well

yeah i mean i would i would say i would say that yeah too sure but I'd be careful saying that to him because fine.

All right, cool.

Let's commit.

And then the next week it's like just kidding yeah or more likely he just slow bleeds it for like a month so he doesn't seem like an asshole and then like right you know yeah it's yeah you know but you you just notice emotionally he's a little different afterwards

yeah

um yeah how do you feel i mean this is the kind of a weird question but how do you feel about like going to third base or second base with him i feel like I could not like I think if my clothes came off at all I'd be like let's just have sex.

I don't think personally I could

do anything more than like kiss.

Yeah.

Without just giving in fully.

All right.

Well, this is not scientific.

This is just my opinion of being a guy.

But I think when it comes to.

Men are very physical, visually, right?

And I think when men meet women, there's like, quite honestly, there's like, there's a question men ask themselves.

And that is, do I I want to see her naked or do I not give a fuck what she looks like naked?

You know?

And naked, you know, and I really think it's more than that than like, oh, I just want to have sex with her, so to speak, you know, because

like sex is not as, there's, I don't know, like,

and it, but, but, letting it, like, making out with a guy and going to second base and doing some stuff,

I'm guessing you tell me I'm not a woman, like you it doesn't have the same emotional impact on you is actually going all the way yeah I wouldn't say it's the same yeah I would say there it still like creates a level of like attachment though no doubt but

I think

all men want men want to know if there's like physical chemistry because I think I mean men and women care about that too

All I'm saying is it's like to kind of split the difference and maybe you could extend the time if you can show that willpower by like rounding some bases but not going all the way home.

Yeah, I think that will, I think you might be able to get a sample of how he might be with you post-sex,

yeah,

type of thing, and that way it feels like there's less pressure on actually having the sex, but like right, he feels like I'm giving him a little bit, but not everything, yeah, right.

And then he can decide whether, like, did I really enjoy

you know,

yeah, you know, do it, you know, because

the act of sex for men is, it's not,

it's not

physical.

It's like, yeah, it's mostly physical.

Yeah.

You know, yeah, it is.

And men are, men are, have emotional needs, but like, yeah, how do you,

men are going to fall in love with you when they, when they miss you and they, yeah, when they think about you and and and

um i think there is a level of emotional intimacy that combines with physical intimacy with men.

It's weird because I don't think men are very good at foreplay.

They're obviously notorious for not being good at that.

But I think the men who

are able to do that, I do think men emotionally connect with that part of sex, if that makes any sense whatsoever.

One, if they're willing to do that with a woman, it shows a level of

caring

and vulnerability for men and if a if men are vulnerable with you you know and open up to you in a way or any way that's that they they fall for you in that way

and the sex has not it's that's not sex is not vulnerable for men it's exercise for them yeah honestly yeah and so i honestly think that they're if if you're able to hold off from that but like yeah have some physical intimacy without the sex i think it'll help you understand how you, how you guys feel each other better because you know, again, yeah, I don't, I really think there's something there.

Let me know if I'm right if you try it out, but

Okay, I mean, I'm definitely gonna hold off on that for like a while, but I think I could do that if if he earns it.

That's the thing.

Yeah, well, don't take yourself that seriously a little bit.

I mean, what do you mean?

Wait, just be careful.

Well, because when you say things like the mentality, if he earns it,

you're, we kind of agreed earlier that you're you're you don't want a guy to pursue just because he's competitive yeah that's true so the mentality if he earns it is you're you're instigating a competitive side to whatever guy you're dating right when you have that mindset i think it's more so if i mean i've even told myself like it's not yeah like it's not happening and unless he were to like show me that he really truly is interested in me and likes me and cares about me and like can emotionally open up to me and like be vulnerable with me.

Totally.

Just don't make physical intimacy a dangle, a carrot you're dangling because then it just becomes something he wants to chase.

Okay.

You know, don't give him

like measurables to meet or goal.

Like if you want this, then do that.

Just be like, listen, I just,

I take things really slow physically.

That's all I'm going to say.

But if you want to kiss a guy, kiss the guy.

You know, that's all I'm saying.

Yeah.

It's like, don't hold out to be difficult

or because you're not, you know, if you're feeling it, just like you can make out, right?

If you want to do it, but that's when you have to that's when you have to know yourself about, hey, I like this.

I like where it's going.

I'm not ready to go to this part of the relationship.

So no matter what I say yes to, I got to enforce that boundary because you know that like it's when things get hot and heavy, it's harder to enforce those boundaries.

So that's that's what you got to know.

It's it's but don't play that game of cat and mouse and dangling the carrot and being like, I don't, you know, uh, yeah, I don't think, I don't think I'll do that.

Cool, yeah, because yeah, you, you, if you're to really get to know this guy, it has to feel organic and natural and normal, and like as things progress, everything has to progress,

you know,

type of thing, if that makes any sense, yeah, yeah, no, it does.

Okay, is this helpful at all?

I don't know.

I think so, yeah, yeah, I think so.

I mean, I think I, I honestly needed to hear it from like someone else to like put Jack in the past.

Because I just can't, I can't hold out for that when I have no idea what could happen.

And ultimately, I don't know him at all, really, as a person.

I know very little.

So, yeah, I guess I just got to see how this goes, see how this plays out.

Yeah, and if Austin's really as much of a fuckboy as you're worried he might be, you should be able to figure that out pretty quickly.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

And if if what Austin is is a guy who like, yeah, I don't know, wasn't that serious about finding his person in his 20s, but like, if he meets the right girl, he's, he, he can be serious and can be

just pay attention to certain things, right?

Like, for example, so many people are very, like, always have excuses for why the right thing is hard to do, you know?

The right thing for Jack if is to tell his to give his new girlfriend a heads up that this girl that he's about she's about to interact with is someone that he asked out in the past and who had a boyfriend at the time and now she's like that's and he's a good chance he won't right um and my and forgetting about jack but austin pay attention to you know how how people should move and what and who have high character in the face of like

you know high character is when people are just like that's that would be a that would be a hard and he does the hard thing because not because it's popular or right but just because he has conviction about it

you know because it sounds like that's the type of person you're looking for right who like wants to like

yeah i don't know yeah he's not he's not 22 and i think any 29 year old guy who has who wants to get married someday would be happy to settle like and if he is that much of a fuckboy where he's still very much in a very he's a very unserious guy about dating you should be able to figure that out pretty quickly yeah i think so Especially if I'm not going to have sex with him.

Well, I do think

you will have to be a little vulnerable.

Like, you know, you're going to have to.

That's fine.

I can definitely, like, I have no problem being vulnerable.

Sometimes I'm a little too vulnerable.

Sure.

Well, let me ask you this.

Like, let's say you guys,

you and Austin hang out for like a month.

Wherever you are, you're not going, you're not having sex, no home base.

And he's like, let's take a long weekend.

together wherever it's like a trip and you share a hotel room and things like that stuff like that you might you know, you're going to have to, you're going to have to do the honeymoon phase a little bit, even while you're playing, while you're taking things slow.

Yeah.

In a weird, you know, way.

And I like just give it, give, give Austin an opportunity to step up as a and give you boyfriend material vibes.

Yeah, I have no problem with that.

Cool.

Awesome.

All right.

Well, I'm invested.

I'd love to know where this lands.

Oh, man.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate it.

No, no problem.

I also have to say, like, this is just a really cool moment right now.

I've like watched you literally since bachelor days.

And so, and like, listened to the show for many years.

So, this is just kind of cool, like full circle.

I don't know.

Well, I appreciate it.

I was happy to finally have like some juicy question to ask you.

Oh, I appreciate you saying that.

And thanks for calling.

Thanks for listening and following along.

And yeah, it's,

I said this before that, like, you know, this show, this ASNIC is the most rewarding part of this show.

The other stuff is fun, a little toxic and a little messy, but this is, I learned,

I learned a lot too.

And this is fun for me.

So thanks for being a part of the show.

Yeah, thank you.

All right.

Well, please follow up because I am dying to know one way or the other

what happens, especially if the four of you get together.

Especially if we sleep together?

No,

sure, that too.

But if the four of you get together,

i really want to know if if jack gives her the heads up but how would i know that you think she would say something to me yeah i doubt it i don't know what would you do wouldn't you just break the ice i don't know probably not really i don't know yeah you might not know well yeah also if he

because if he tells her

Again, if I were to tell Natalie, right?

Yeah.

Early in our dating situation, just so you know,

I just organically would know that she is going to like not, like, I'm going to, I, I would be so,

I just wouldn't give you anything.

You know what I'm saying?

Right.

Yeah.

So if he doesn't give you anything and just says, hey, it's good to see you again, you know, yeah.

And just very much, this is my girlfriend.

Nice to meet you.

And like almost pretends that that little meet cute you guys had never happened, but acknowledges that he's met you before, then there's a good chance he told her.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I guess I'm really just more curious about how he handles himself.

Yeah.

Because, yeah, I'd be curious.

All right.

Well, I'll let you know.

All right.

All right.

Well, good luck out there.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

All right.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

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