E1018 Ask Nick - My Husband Left When I Was 7 Months Pregnant

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You're crazy.

How's it going?

Pretty good.

How are you?

Good.

What's your name?

My name's Rose.

I'm 32 and I'm calling because I'm trying to help my single friend with dating.

Okay.

Why?

I mean, other than just trying to be a good friend, why are you so invested in this particular friend?

And have they asked for your help or are you just like worried about them?

Well,

there's a lot of backstory for my relationship with her.

We've been friends for 25 years.

So, obviously, I am invested in her and her life just in general.

She

has been struggling a lot.

She's been in the trenches, and I

recently got married, going on three years now.

And we are in very different stages of life.

And it's just hard.

for me to figure out the right things to say to support her with her dating life.

So, do you feel like this is coming from a place of feel you're feeling more and more disconnected from your friend and you're hoping that maybe you can get her a partner because it's affecting the friendship?

No, I wouldn't say that I'm trying to find her a person.

I'm more just trying to be supportive of her in her dating choices and

in the

experiences that she's having in dating.

It's been pretty rough for her.

And so I don't really know how to talk to her about things without being kind of like a cliche, like, oh, you'll meet the right person when it's the right time.

Or, oh, just wait, you're such a great catch.

Like, I just feel like that doesn't really do a whole lot.

So I just don't really know how to talk to her about her dating.

Between you and me, I'm sure she's a great friend.

Do you think she's a great catch in the sense that, like,

why do you think,

let's recognize that it's difficult to find your person, especially now more than ever in today's dating climate and culture.

What do you think about her stopping her from finding what she's looking for?

That's a great question.

Her romantic choices are not always the best, just in general.

And I don't really know why she picks the men that she does and has picked in the past.

And she

still is not, like when she goes on dates, she's not really picking men that I think are of the correct caliber for her.

But then she also has like a lot of high standards, but then also says, I'm, you know, 34, I'll take what I can get.

It's a bit confusing to follow

her choices.

She is very particular.

She is allergic to a lot of things.

She's very type A, like literally, which I know.

Allergic to a lot of things.

Yeah, like,

like deathly allergic to so many things.

It's not even funny.

Um, dogs and cats being one of the biggest things, um, which I know in today's day and age with dating, a lot of people do have dogs and cats.

The last two guys that she dated, the last one cheated on her with two girls, and he had had a drug problem, which she thought that he had kicked, and et cetera, et cetera.

And then the guy before that was using her for like a lot of her, like, stability and her financial resources that she she brought to the table and he was just to put it bluntly an asshole and i had to call him out on his behavior towards her several times um because she wouldn't do it herself why wouldn't she do it she hates confrontation is she allergic to confrontation too in a sense i mean probably

I mean, we don't even have, like, she and I, we don't have a very confrontational relationship, but there are things that I've definitely wanted to talk to her about in the past.

And I was afraid to because she hates confrontation so much.

I mean, I don't know how I can help you if you're not even capable of like having a cup of coffee with her and

coming from a place of love and friendship.

And

I guess that's my question.

Do you think she thinks she has a problem with dating or do you think she just sees it as bad luck and all men suck?

It's so weird because it's definitely a combination of the two.

Like I actually actually told her that I wrote in to a podcast about not knowing how to support her

while while she's dating.

And like, she didn't even have anything to say back of like, well, this would be helpful.

And so I like, I did she have like, I mean, what she had no response.

She wasn't like, was she curious?

Was she offended?

Was she almost like, do you think she'll ask you about it?

She wasn't offended,

which actually came kind of as a surprise to me, but she definitely was like, Oh, I'd be curious what they said.

And I'm like, Well, I haven't had the conversation yet, so I will let you know.

Because I don't think she even knows how to really help herself.

And so it's well, like anything else, step one, you know, it's like admitting you have, you need help.

I don't think there's any benefit from the narrative of all men suck, or all, you know, if you're a man struggling with dating, saying to yourself, all women suck or whatever, like that doesn't help you.

Focusing on how many people there are out there that are not your match or not your person is never going to help you get your person, you know, so it's,

you got to figure out, first of all, like what patterns you are repeating that aren't working out.

The fact, you know, step one is like, if, is she so adverse to like, conflict to the point where she can't even like stand up for herself.

And how can you enforce a boundary that you have, right?

So if you're whatever your boundary is, you know, like I don't want to date someone who does X, Y, or Z.

And this person does X, Y, or Z.

And you are so adverse to confrontation that you just convince yourself, though, that that's not what I'm talking about.

Oh, I don't, you know, or you find an excuse for them.

as to why, you know, it's not the same as the boundary that you've communicated to yourself internally and things like that.

So that's definitely step one.

And she needs to kind of acknowledge that, you know?

Yeah.

I think, I mean, I'm sure you have, I mean, you are in a very happy marriage relationship.

You have found your person.

When you have like your single friends, like, do they like talking to you and they maybe complain or talk about their dating life?

What are things that you might say to them to like kind of like, if you're like you have these great qualities like you have all these things to because I feel like she does have all these things to offer and I just don't know how to kind of boost her confidence up well nowadays my the whatever friends I have that are single which are not many these days like they don't ask me and you know they they know who I am in the sense and they know like if they ask, they'll get feedback, right?

So like I am direct to the point where if I don't offer advice that I'm not asked about, and if I do get asked, you know, like, you know, Natal has a girlfriend.

She's not single.

She's been in a long-term relationship with someone who

all of her other friends just like, we don't get it.

Right.

And not that he's a bad guy.

It's just she doesn't seem happy and she seems to accept a lot of very specific things.

that he wants out of a relationship and what he, you know, very limited to how he gives, gives, whatever.

But like, I've never really spoken to her about it.

She's never asked me directly, but I just ask questions, you know, like for the people who do ask, I think asking questions is the best way to get people

to hear what you're thinking, you know, right?

When you're talking to someone and you have feedback for them, constructive feedback, it is not well received or usually doesn't land when you're talking at them.

You know, hey, I don't think you're good at setting boundaries.

Hey, I think you're a pushover.

Hey, you, you date shitty men.

You got to ask them questions and lead them down a path, right?

Like ask them how they're feeling about a situation.

Maybe compare another situation that you find to be similar to theirs and get them to see that situation and then compare and contrast with their situation.

What do you think about someone who would date someone who does X, Y, or Z?

How is that different than your relationship?

You know, things like that.

They have to come up with the answers for themselves and then kind of like look in the mirror, so to speak.

Right.

So it's really just kind of asking them questions about how they feel

about things and then continue to ask more questions that kind of direct them down that path.

Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice.

I'm very much a like speak what's on my mind.

I will just

try to like hype my friends up a lot.

And I feel like I don't always take the time to actually ask like those sort of follow-up questions to dig a little bit deeper about like kind of leading them to the answer.

So actually, I feel like that would be very helpful for her because I

do notice that when I do ask those questions of like, oh, well, like, what did you like about him?

Or like, what, what are like the red flags for you?

And

then she'll start talking about it.

And then I kind of see her have those light bulb moments a little bit more.

I think.

How often is he reaching out?

You know, when's the next date?

Are you excited about this?

What did you guys talk about in the date?

What questions did he ask you?

You know, you know, let's say your friend dates someone, right?

It's like, oh, I met a guy at a nice first date.

She shows an interest in this person.

And then let's say like date three or four,

you observe or hear something that you find to be a red flag.

right let's say they hang out they go on three dates then he goes on vacation and he doesn't reach out, doesn't follow up.

You might learn about this.

You don't want to say, oh, that's weird.

You would want to ask her questions like, well, what would you like him to do?

What were you hoping he would do?

And then validate their feelings on it, right?

Like, you know, oftentimes in dating, when we like someone or we're exciting, I feel like a lot of women internalize this thought of like, well, I don't want to be crazy.

I don't want to be the crazy one.

I don't want to be pushy.

So anytime they have this nervous feeling about like things that aren't going their way about maybe someone they like, they'll have that nervous feeling, right?

Like, so ask them questions about how they're feeling.

And then if you agree with them, assuming they're not being crazy, which I think in most cases they're not, validate those feelings.

You know, yeah, you're right to feel that way.

And then guide them to help them process those feelings or what they should do with those feelings.

Yeah,

you should reach out.

I don't think gassing up your friends and filling them with delusion is helpful.

And I don't think telling them what they're doing wrong and belittling them is also helpful you know it's like they don't need a coach you know i mean it's great to have support and a cheerleader but like you don't want to make excuses for someone else either because you don't want to disappoint them right you just want to honestly just ask them questions about how they're feeling listen to how they're feeling and assuming it's a normal response to a situation validate those feelings and then you know give them some tips of what to do next.

And I think that's the best way to go.

Because then it's like, you're not judging them, you're not filling them with delusion.

And then when they are disappointed about, you know, the difficult times or how stressful dating can be, you just, you empathize with them, you know, like, yeah, it can, it can be a struggle.

Just like I do and all the people who call in, I just like,

listen, like dating is hard.

It is.

It will never not be hard.

It's not meant to be fun.

You know, it can be fun at times with the right mindset, but it's always eventually kind of exhausting.

Again, I always kind of equate it to like going to the gym.

Sure, there's like a few people out there who are big gym rats and just like love going to the gym, but most of us like don't mind a workout sometimes, but at the end of the day, it's kind of like, ugh.

Got to work out, you know, and like there can be benefits from it.

You know what I'm saying?

And even then, you get fatigued from it.

You might need to take a break, you know, even if you do like going to the gym.

You know, like your body needs a little bit of a break sometimes.

And so you just kind of like make sure they have the right mindset.

Yeah, absolutely.

I was going to say, I do have like a real life example for her in regards to like a situation where I wasn't quite sure how to like, I don't know, give advice or just be supportive in that moment.

She went on a date with a guy.

She knew he was a teacher.

We all know teachers are severely underpaid.

They don't make a ton of money.

She is an engineer, so she lives a different lifestyle than say your average teacher might.

And she like went on this date with him knowing this information.

And then she was like, oh yeah, like he like really couldn't do anything, couldn't afford to pay for anything, didn't want to do like a, she was like, I tried to give like a free option, but.

you know, he just was like, oh, well, we can just cook at your house.

And she wasn't really comfortable with that.

so she ended up just paying for their date because he said that he just couldn't afford it and in my head i'm like well why did you even go on a date with the guy in the first place but i can't really say that i mean i could but i don't really

i don't know what the benefit of that would be so these are the sorts of scenarios that she's putting herself in where i don't really know what to say

What was like, what was the date that she went on that she paid for?

It was like drinks and tacos.

Like it wasn't anything crazy.

It was probably like a 30, maybe 40

total, I'm assuming.

Yeah.

And again, yes, teachers are underpaid.

And yes, inflation's the real thing right now and it is expensive out there.

So not to minimize people's financial struggles out there.

But I think we agree.

If he wanted to, he would type of thing.

And I don't think, fine, don't eat tacos or don't get alcohol.

I don't know.

A cup of coffee, even though it's expensive.

You know, it's just like a date is about meeting someone and having a conversation, you know, at the end of the day, especially a first date.

Yeah.

If he was ultimately negotiating with her about where to have this date, having no problem to like come over to his house, it was kind of giving like Netflix and chill energy, it sounds like a little bit.

To me, it sounded like I don't know or like you enough to waste, you know, it's like, to me, what is more of the truth of that story, and we're making a lot of assumptions here, is that like, yeah, he probably on a teacher's salary doesn't have a lot of money to waste, right?

If he's actively dating, listen, as a guy who, you know, from when I was single, like, I, you know, it's like, hey, you know, I feel like I should pay for this date.

I'm a guy, you know, whatever.

Call me, call me old-fashioned.

Like, I think some guys out there who are on the dating apps, actively dating, yeah, that can get expensive.

It's like, do,

it's like, do I want to go like meet a stranger and spend another 80 bucks?

You know, like, oh, it's like my,

oh, that can, that can add up.

And there is definitely that mindset, right?

As women, if you, you know, still are hoping that you find a man who is chivalrous, who at least like will want to pay for the first date, whether they have the funds or not, I think it's totally normal to empathize with a guy.

It's like, maybe this is his fourth date this week.

And I'm not going to judge him because, hey, I'm out there and I've been on four dates this week.

So like, it is what it is.

But like.

We don't have to get drinks and a coffee.

Like there are inexpensive options out there, you know?

And I guess like a guy who really wants to like meet someone, not have them pay for their dinner yeah find a compromise on on a place that would allow him to pay for the date no i i mean but if she is like i don't know but i don't know her maybe she's a particular person who's like i want to go on this place for this date yeah she is very particular

And if that's the case, then you're going to kind of getting into like a, well, hey, that's where you want to go and I can't afford it.

You know, it's like, you know.

It's a compromise.

Yeah.

But again, if you're, it's like one of those things that I'm a particular person.

I always know and I'm a particular person.

And as a particular person, you just have to have a little bit more patience.

And knowing that, like, I don't know, like, yeah, I wasn't trying to please everyone.

I wasn't trying to go on a date with a bunch of people, but I had to recognize that as a particular person, you know, like finding out people aren't your person faster just saves you time and money.

And going on dates for the sake of being entertained or having something to do is a giant waste of time and money.

You know, it is a balance because you do have to get out there.

You do have to meet people.

You have to be willing to be surprised, you know, when you meet people.

So it's really just checking in with yourself more than anything.

Why are you doing this?

Am I doing this because there's a real interest here?

Am I doing this?

Am I saying yes to this date because I'm bored?

Her biggest problem from what I'm hearing from you is if she's dating someone you describe to be a particularly really bad boyfriend, and the fact that she couldn't ever stand up for herself and she needed you to do that is a is a really bad sign for her.

I would agree,

which I think is why I am even more protective of like her dating life.

Like, I do, I want to see her happy.

I know I can't fix that.

It's not my job, my responsibility to find that person for her or anything.

That's never, that's not the intention of like my questions or anything like that it's it's just that i've seen her go through so much uh in her dating life and her personal life everything else and so it's just like maybe it's like a it feels weird because she is a few years older than me like prior to me finding my now husband she was always the one in like these very serious long-term relationships with with guys and then you know, those obviously didn't pan out.

And then my husband and I, we moved pretty quick.

Like we got engaged after seven months.

We got married within two years of being together.

And now we're going on five years of being together and we're in a really great place.

And she sees that.

And I just don't know if maybe I feel a little, feels like a little bit of a weird friendship dynamic balance and shift in that.

Yeah.

I mean, like being in your, yeah, like it's for sure.

I mean, there's a period, you know, in adult life, I think late 20s, early 30s, some people settle down and some people don't.

And when people settle down, quite literally, there's a reason why we call it settle down because you start,

you realize that like part of going, you know, when you, when you went out in your 20s, you're like, oh, well, I went out to meet girls or went out to meet men.

This is a broad statement, but

like, if you're an adult in a committed relationship, going out was less fun.

Now, I'm not someone, I'm not a big drinker.

I don't like darts or pool.

or things like that.

And I guess I have a lot of introverted aspects to my personality.

And so maybe that, you know, an extrovert who's like good, you know, loves, loves pool might just enjoy going out, you know, to the bars, I suppose.

I'm not saying everyone who has a partner who goes out to the bars is

up to no good, but there is an element of,

you know, what's the point?

It's not as fun.

I'd rather stay home with my person, my partner.

It does change friendships, you know,

because, you know, if she had a boyfriend that you liked, you'd probably double date and you'd come over game night and you would do dinners and you would just kind of hang out and talk and hope that your husband and her boyfriend like like each other enough where they like have some common interests.

And, and when that doesn't happen, that definitely changes how much we see and spend time with our friends.

You might, you know, talk on the phone and catch up and things like that, but it makes it a little bit more difficult, but it doesn't make it impossible.

And, you know, even though your friendship changes, it doesn't have to, it just changes, right?

It doesn't have to like go away.

But yeah, I mean, as far as your friend, I think it's really just asking more questions rather than making statements.

But she has, you know, you have to get her to want to help herself.

And she needs to recognize that she's probably making some choices that are not helping her.

If she is as frustrated with her dating life as you are as frustrated with her dating life.

I think, yeah.

I think she is.

And just kind of talk it through.

Because right now you're just, you're describing your friend who her frustrations come in the form of just kind of complaining and complaining doesn't get you anywhere you just have you have to make some meaningful changes like what am i going to do different okay fine dating sucks men men all men suck or whatever but that is not going to change anything so she's going to have to make some changes in how she approaches her dating life and then how she approaches the men that she chooses to invest her time in you know and right now you've described someone who just wants to get on the date, you know, sometimes.

And she is not looking at some of the signs or red flags of, again, when red flag doesn't necessarily mean bad guy, just mean not my guy, you know?

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Yeah, the advice piece,

well, in terms of like asking more questions, I think that is, for me, my key takeaway.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person that has single friends that, you know, they want to try to quote unquote help, but without being too overt.

Yeah, it's tricky because, you know, most people don't want to.

Sometimes it only helps with an outside voice.

You know, it's like, for example, I'm sure there will be times where you and your husband are talking, right?

And maybe you're just not agreeing on a particular topic.

Maybe it's not even that serious.

And then if you heard it from another person or if he heard it from another person, even though you disagree with them, hearing it from an outside opinion, you know, let's say you guys disagreed and whatever my opinion was, both of you were might be like, Oh, well, I mean, I guess, like, you know what I'm saying?

Seeing it from a different point of view, yeah, it's like, and then your partner's like, Well, that's literally what I've been saying.

Why don't you ever listen to me?

You know, but sometimes we just, you know, we dismiss the people we, you know, because like, you know, you know, your friend, you know, your husband, right?

So, like, it's like, oh, you are just the way you are, and that's why you feel the way you do, and yada, yada, yada.

And sometimes we just need it, you know, so to hear it from an outside point of view.

So, no, I really appreciate it.

And I, I do have to say, I

use your, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy all the time?

That phrase has like stuck with me for, I don't even know how many years.

It's a good one.

Oh, yeah.

Whenever my husband and I, if we ever get, start getting into like a little like tiff or something, like I always, we always just look at each other and go.

Do we want to be right or do we want to be happy?

And we always pick being happy.

Like that is like the first thing we say whenever something might start going off the rails.

We're like, okay, let's circle back and figure it out because that has really been such a big piece of advice that has stuck with me.

So, thank you.

Well, good to hear.

Well, I didn't come up with it, but I do use it all the time.

I'm giving you credit because you're who I heard it from.

Well, I appreciate it.

Thank you for the call.

And yeah,

hopefully, this was helpful.

It was, yeah, no, I appreciate it.

I just, I'm going to take time to slow down and ask more pointed questions to to help her figure out what exactly she's looking for and instead of trying to just hype her up.

So thank you.

Okay.

All right.

Well, thanks for the call.

Bye.

All right.

Talk later.

Bye-bye.

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how's it going good how are you good what's your name my name's emma i'm 26.

how can i help emma Well, my problem right now is that I got fired a while ago and I really don't want to get another job.

Okay.

Really don't know how I can motivate myself to get another job, to be honest with you.

Do you need?

I mean,

maybe you don't need to get another job.

Like, are you rich?

Not rich enough to like not work

for this long.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'll be good till December, but I got like a college degree and stuff.

So I kind of want to use that.

You know what I mean?

Talk to me.

What, what's is this like a lack of motivation?

Like, what do you,

why'd you get fired?

Well, I think I got fired because I really didn't like my job and I kind of couldn't force myself to care about it really.

What was your job?

I worked at like an architecture engineering firm.

Okay.

Are you an architect?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Do you like?

being an architect or was it just the company or the job that you had?

I don't know.

I've gotten the feeling I don't really like being an architect that much.

I did a lot of school to become an architect.

I did a lot of school to become an accountant.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So hated that.

Yeah.

Something I've always said since I've started this show is our 20s are...

are usually based off of expectations and dream expectations we set for ourselves and dreams that we had as teenagers and for some people that works out and some people are lucky enough to have a dream or about what they want to do when they grow up when they're teenagers and they go to school for it and it turns out they absolutely love it and this is amazing and it all it all works out my brother wanted to be a dentist when he was six years old he's a dentist now far as i know he likes being a dentist good for him most of us you know uh we we pick a degree and we watch a movie and that sounds cool and then we actually get into it or and then we start doing it and maybe even in school we liked it, you know, or and then we get into the job and we're like, this fucking sucks.

Or maybe sometimes it's just the job that we hate or the people we work with, you know, and sometimes we have to try it out.

So, like, I guess for you, when you think about what you didn't like about architecture or the job, what was it specifically that you didn't like?

And then, the follow-up question to that is, what are some things that you think about now that you, you know, how old are you again?

26.

26, right?

So,

what are some things that do interest you?

And like, how what are you motivated by?

Yeah, I mean, I think like some of the most impactful projects that we did involved like helping vulnerable populations, or at least like involved, you know, creating, doing projects that would actually make a difference in the community versus like, you know, we would do a lot of like warehouse buildings that are like four walls and, you know, they're just to like kind of store things in and are like soulless office buildings and you know it's not it doesn't feel like meaningful work right so i think like if i had the opportunity to like i don't know build a hospital or you know design more like community centers something that's like actually

feels like it's enriching people's lives i think that would be a lot more inspiring to me or even like something more creative and like artistic based Okay, well, what does that look like?

I don't know.

Like, I just kind of play with the idea of like, I've been to music festivals festivals like Panorama in New York and they have these really cool installations on site that like people can go inside of and like interact with or even like the towers that they have in Coachella, like,

you know, the spiral.

I don't know, something that's like more the artistic side.

I think doing something like that would be cool or like.

I don't know anything about that world, but have you looked into what that looks like?

Have you looked into who are the companies that make these things that you find really cool and inspiring?

Honestly, no, I haven't.

I think I kind of like counted myself out from it.

So that's a really good first step to probably like look into this.

But also like, you know, do you even want to do that?

Like, I mean,

not, not, I'm not, I don't know you at all, right?

And I'm not, you know, I'm glad that you, you know, want to do meaningful things

for people.

But like.

Do you?

I don't know.

Like, I guess my point is just like, I didn't like being an accountant.

Yeah.

And I definitely remember, it's funny, like now that there's a show called The Paper coming out, that's like a reboot of The Office.

I remember when The Office, the show, came out, right?

And I was in my, I was working my,

I was very early in my career.

It was my second job, hated my first job, quit that.

I was an auditor.

It wasn't even accounting.

And I was like, well, then I was like, well, I want to do actual accounting, you know, and then I was doing actual accounting.

I'm like, this is fucking boring.

This is like spreadsheets.

I sit in the office and I remember the office coming out.

And I really related to like Jim's character, which was basically like, what's the point of all this?

Like, is this my life?

Is this like, I just like it, you know, this is, you know, and I, I remember like when I asked myself, what's the point of all this?

Where it was this like, what value do I add, you know, type of thing.

I don't think if I was doing spreadsheets for some kind of nonprofit that, you know, at the end of the day, like helped people.

I don't think I would have like got any more meaning out of it.

At the end of the day, I just hated the work and I personally didn't feel any sense of accomplishment.

That's why I personally got into sales because, like, you know, I'm not trying to convince you to do sales, but like my mentality, I was, you know, I liked athletics, right?

I really responded to competition.

And sales offered me on a day in and day out basis to feel like I had a sense of accomplishment or failure, right?

Like if I could make a hundred calls and not get anywhere,

not that it was like, I felt like a failure, but I knew knew how I had to measure myself.

And that's a type of work that I responded to because I could even compete with myself.

I could compete with my peers, you know, and that was very motivating for me.

I had to figure out what, how I was motivated.

Like, what, what motivates you?

Like, are you motivated by money?

Which I was, because I know a lot of people don't like to say that.

You know,

I wanted to make money, you know, like I, I almost, I remember early in my career, I thought about being a teacher teacher because I was like, I remember, you know, mostly because I wanted a coach and I want, I liked, you know, this ass nick stuff that I do, right?

I, I enjoy helping people, right?

I get, I get a lot of value out of doing this.

I find it to be enjoyable, right?

But I remember when I was sitting down in my early 20s, really seriously thinking about being a teacher, I remember being like, well, I'm also very money motivated and I don't want to, you know, teachers don't make a lot of money.

And so I had to figure that out, right?

In terms of what motivates me, what can I get excited about?

You need to take away the pressure of, I went to school for this, I spent a lot of money on this, who gives a fuck, right?

My, my teacher, I had friend, you know, we, most of us, a college degree is a, you know, I don't know, it is, it is what it is, but it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

And it doesn't help you out.

It's like, what is that?

The sunk cost fallacy, you know, like

if you hate what you're doing, there's no point in doing it just because you've already invested so much time and money in it.

So I guess step one is take away the fact that you went to school to be an architect and open up your mind to the possibility that you can do anything.

It all worked out for me, but I remember being, again, around your age as an accountant, hating my fucking job, but thinking I was too old to go back to school.

And I'm not trying to tell you to go back to school and spend more money because nowadays I don't know how useful colleges are, but reinvesting in yourself, whatever that is, learning a new trade or a skill set doesn't necessarily require you to go back to school school, but like it might require you to learn somehow.

It might require you to pay your dues, right?

I only bring that up because like time does go fast.

At 26, you might be thinking, it's too late for that.

But I promise you, when you turn 29,

you'll look back and

wish you did more to invest in yourself.

Yeah.

Whatever that is.

Unless you are, unless, unless you're 29 and you wake up and you're like, I absolutely love what I do.

And so it's never too late to reinvest in yourself.

And it's never too late to, to, I guess, in the moment, feel like you're taking a step back in order to take two steps forward.

Right.

And by taking a step back, I mean, like, you know, a lot of people at your age will be like, well, I already went to school and I already spent this money and now it's time to make money.

And like, I don't have time to like pay my dues anymore.

I've already paid my dues, but you know,

maybe you just made the wrong choice on what you wanted to do.

So, first, first you kind of have to press the reset button.

When you're thinking about what you want to do next, you really have to start from scratch and open up your mind to the possibility that anything is possible and I can do anything for the most part.

I actually really like that idea.

You know, I relate to what you're saying about just finding working in an office soul-sucking.

Like, I absolutely find sitting at my desk all day to just be draining and then there may be like moments of it being uplifting

but i think there needs to be like a complete reevaluation and like honestly this has been really encouraging for me to like look at other professions honestly sales i've thought about sales but sales i listen i am a huge advocate for sales it's not for everyone you know i remember when i got into sales um and i had some success and i made some good money and

I had jobs where I was able to work from home.

With sales, there are times when you have to work really hard.

And there are times where it can be like, you know,

it's a Wednesday afternoon and you're out there kind of having an early happy hour.

And I had a lot of friends who saw like the money I made in what they perceived to be like a really great work-life balance.

And they're like, well, I should do sales.

And I was like, yeah, you should.

But like, I also like, I had a lot of days where I'd make 200 phone calls and get hung up on 50 times and be told no.

And that's not for everybody, right?

Because that can be very defeating.

Whatever you decide to do, there is going to be an, you know, the people who make it, you know, there's every amazing job that looks like a dream job requires people to pay their dues.

And if it's a dream job that you're looking at and you're seeing people with like the money that you want or the flexibility that you have,

it didn't start that way.

And the reason why those great job, those people have those great jobs is because the filter is all the work at the beginning most people aren't willing to do yeah which is like kind of what i'm thinking i'm like well

you know like my boss was saying like my old boss anyway is that i'm not getting put on more interesting projects because i'm not like progressing enough with the boring projects and like i'm not going the extra mile on them and that was like a really important aspect but yeah but if you don't like it right like that is something to consider right because like yeah anyone who's listening who's an architect right you know and they're listening to this call uh they're probably thinking yeah girl like yeah i wanted i didn't like working on those boring projects too but like i had to do it like everyone everyone else did and i had to like put my best effort in those boring projects uh and show that i could do the work and i could be trusted so that i had to earn you know everyone wants the best projects right like yeah you know that is something you'll have to ask yourself you know what's the the thing?

And that's where you have to enjoy the work, right?

For me, I didn't like making a hundred calls a day and getting nowhere, but like, I was able to, I like my competitive side was able to like get through it and find the small wins in those moments, you know, in sales, there's usually like a direct line between effort and compensation.

So,

you know, it was easier for me to be like, all right, well, just keep, I'll just keep fucking grinding because like i i see i could see the goal i could see the the the the pot at the end of the rainbow so to speak right sometimes with some jobs it's harder to see it's like well what's the point of working harder i'm never actually rewarded for it yeah and i feel like that's kind of the other thing with architecture is there's kind of like a ceiling unless you become like a frank gehry or whatever like a famous architect you're kind of capped at like 150 or like 200 000 a year not bad and i know i'm flipping it's a lot of work which is still pretty good.

Yeah.

It's still really good.

But then it's just like, I don't know, I guess.

And then it's like the prestige of the title, you know, that you're like a licensed architect.

And it's just a lot of work, especially right now.

You could sell, couldn't you sell architectural equipment?

That's the other thing I've considered is I'm sure there's some sort of field.

Like I know some people have sold floor plans.

Yeah.

Every boring industry buys things.

No.

You know?

True.

And there's a lot of people who went to school to be doctors and lawyers and accountants and architects who didn't like it, who did get into sales, and they got sales jobs selling to those types of people because they could speak their language.

So that's an idea.

Yeah.

But also if you get into sales, like you don't have to, you could

be good at sales.

It doesn't matter what you sell.

You're not really selling.

You're solving problems.

So I don't know if you're, you know, architecture, there's a problem-solving element to sales too.

I always always joke i don't sell i don't sell software i sell a dream sell a vision right you know like absolutely your your thing is you have to figure out what motivates you

because every a job is a job you know like it's all jobs feel like jobs even now i mean i truly have a dream job i i run my own company it's really great but like work is work and some you know like i still have to work you know I mean, even the influencers, it's hilarious.

Like for the people who go on reality TV and things like that.

And

some of the opportunities that we're afforded are truly surreal, right?

It's like, we'll pay you X number of dollars to post this on social media.

And,

you know, relative to like real work, it's truly like ridiculous, but like you can't find an influencer who won't complain about having to like make whatever content they have to make in order to make this ridiculous amount of money.

And every single influencer acts like it's fucking real fucking work.

like oh my god i have to do this so i gotta film it it's just like they're paying you you know

whatever it is you know which is you know whatever it is it's

it's it's not it's it's not normal money um so work to some degree will oh no matter what you do it'll always feel like work yeah do you think you're a hard worker yeah

i think so i think if i'm passionate about something, then I can get it done.

Okay.

Well, I mean, I imagine like, you know, getting a degree in architecture can't be easy no that's like very time consuming and a lot of hard work yeah um i think like 30 of our class dropped out like the first two years so it's like it's pretty intense i guess i just had like a clear goal and i was like yeah i really want to do this so i think i have it in me okay

just a little bit disillusioned with my last job i want to say was that your first job it was pretty much my first job like in architecture exclusively i think i worked for like a masonry company beforehand and I had other few odd jobs before, but this was like the first architecture job.

And so what have you been doing in the meantime since you got fired?

I've really been focusing on my wellness, which has been amazing.

Been focusing on getting eight hours of sleep a night, like clean sleep routine.

I've been working out every day, been like on a pretty strict diet, meditating.

You know, I've been looking for other jobs here and there.

And it's just been trying to do things that I didn't have the time to do when I had a job, like drawing, checking out new coffee shops.

I've been writing a little bit too.

Okay.

Well, the question I would always ask myself: if, if I'm a big believer, bet on, I'm a big believer in betting on yourself.

Like most people don't bet on themselves.

I actually saw there's this viral thing going on.

I think he's a comic book artist.

I think he's dying of pancreatic cancer right now or prostate cancer.

I don't know.

But he, yeah, I forget his name.

Sound good?

No, it's not.

but

he was talking it was like a short one minute video that talked about how to like how laziness is a mindset because most people when they're thinking about things they think about the work that it will take rather than the what you'll get out of it so whatever the task is you know it's just like

for you it's just like well you didn't want to work on the boring buildings yeah so you focus more on the work of working on the boring buildings rather than the goal of, well, if I do this and then do it well, I will be able to maybe work on more interesting buildings, you know, or instead of, I don't want to rake the leaves and the lawn, think about like, well, I'm going to have a really great looking lawn when I'm done, you know, if that's something you care about, right?

So it's more of thinking about what you're going to get out of it rather than the work that goes into it.

And if you can change your mindset and focusing on the outcome, rather than the work that goes into it, you can get out of kind of a lazy mindset.

I'm not suggesting you're lazy.

We're all all lazy.

We all have, there's all things in our lives that we don't want to do that we're just like, fuck it.

I hate doing that.

But to get out of that mindset, it was a really interesting thought process.

But again, back to betting on yourself.

And any difficult decision I've had to make, it was always like, if I bet on myself and I do what it takes to get the job done, what will that look like?

Because I knew that I was willing, in most cases,

I was willing to do what most people weren't willing to do.

I was willing to put in the work and put in the time, grind.

And I would ask myself if when forced with a difficult decision, knowing that like it's a challenge or whatever, like whatever is, you know, going on reality TV?

Or when I switched jobs from medical sales to software sales and things like that, I got a job offer at Oracle and I got a job offer at Salesforce.

And the job offer at Oracle had a

had a bigger starting salary, but the job at Salesforce had

more upside opportunity in terms of lower starting salary.

And so it was like, well, well, yeah, but if I'm one of the better ones, then I'll make more money at the Salesforce job, you know?

But then I had to, like, am I going to be willing to be, what is it going to take to be one of the better ones?

And for me, you know, I was willing to bet on myself.

You have to ask yourself, are you someone who's good at betting on themselves?

And are you willing to follow through knowing what it will take, whatever it will take?

And it's easier to do.

It's easier to bet on yourself when you're doing something you have a, have a passion for.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying.

I agree.

I think I got to like believe in myself a little bit more with architecture because I do feel like I'm not that great of a designer.

Sometimes, I don't know.

I'm kind of like, I don't know if I really want to bet this on myself for architecture.

I mean, some architects really aren't great designers anyway.

So.

Well, that's the thing too.

You got to ask yourself why, you know, it's just like, maybe you don't like the work, right?

Maybe a lot of people, it's just like, I, you know, it's like, you're right.

you pointed it out, right?

When you're, when, you know, maybe not now, now it's like YouTube star, but like back in the day when you were a kid, it was like an being an architect was like a dream job.

Like when you were a kid and you're on the playground, it was like, I want to be a lawyer, a doctor, or architect.

It was one of those cool, like, you know, you go to a movie and the main character is an architect because it's like a cool sounding job.

So some people will pick architecture, you know, because like they like the sound of it, but they'll hate the work.

If in your mind, the idea of being like the coolest, most famous architect in the world is what you like about being an architect, then maybe you shouldn't be an architect, you know, because like sometimes it's just like you did it, you know, you liked the sound of it rather than actual,

actually doing it, which I think is okay to acknowledge at your age because again, you've made the decision to be an architect when you were 17 years old.

Then like, you know, what do we know about what we want to do in adulthood at 17?

So true.

I feel like at some point, you know, you're in college and you're like, okay, I just got to commit to something.

I really don't dream of labor.

Like, I don't dream of having a job.

And like, thankfully, I have enough money to just chill right now.

But you do have a good education, right?

And it's a degree that does impress people.

And maybe you just have to make a slight pivot.

Like I said, like, you know, when I was an accountant, I knew I wanted to get in sales.

So there was a year.

I, during the day, worked in an office as an accountant.

And then I would leave work and I'd work at night selling cell phones.

Cell phones.

Like

at Verizon.

You know, it was a smaller company, but oh, there's a company called U.S.

Cellular in the Midwest.

It was like a regional cell phone.

Okay.

Like, you know, a cell phone store you walk into.

I went there.

Damn.

And then I would work on the weekends too.

You know, I was single.

I had no responsibilities.

Yeah.

But my point is, like, I think there's a mindset sometimes we have where it's just like, well, I don't want to do that anymore.

You know, I don't know how you feel about being 26, but most people in adulthood feel old, whatever age they are.

You get in a certain point in your life.

And, you know, going to college and getting a degree in architecture, you certainly had to pay your dues.

Right.

And when you graduated, you probably had a mindset of finally, I am done paying my dues.

Now I'm going to be a fucking architect.

Yep.

And then you got into work and you're like, this is just a fucking job, man.

Like the glitz and the glamour of the architecture, you didn't feel the payoff, whatever, or maybe you didn't really really like the work.

And I'm just saying that as a 26-year-old, you're still plenty young enough to like do something that like there's a part of your brain that might feel like this is beneath you.

Like I definitely didn't imagine for myself in my mid-20s to be working at a cell phone store slinging cell phones, but I wanted to get in the sales and I had no sales experience.

And I got a lot of great experience and honestly made decent money doing it too.

And then I parlayed that into

other sales jobs.

Yeah.

You know, but there would be a lot of people who at that point, you know, at 26, who had been like, I don't want to go, I didn't go to school to like work at a fucking kiosk in a mall.

That's valid.

But it gave you the experience you needed.

Yeah.

And I just kind of got over it.

And I accidentally had to make something.

I mean, I had two, I was making tons of money.

You know, it's like, you know, at my age at the time, you got to find what motivates you.

You got to find about what you're passionate about.

You also have to figure out, because whatever you do,

you're going to have to figure out how to get the small wins.

I do, you know, like, listen, you go on TikTok or, you know, a lot of people are making fun of your generation because there's a level of like thinking about you're supposed to make so much money right away.

There's a perception from my generation that your generation doesn't understand the idea of paying their dues.

I don't know how true that is or if it's a case-by-case basis, but I won't deny it.

Yeah.

All I can say is when you're 30 or 40, you know, you'll regret not putting in the work, especially nowadays too, which what's crazy, not to sound like the fucking old guy talking about your generation.

But like,

and not even mine, you know, like, you know, way back in the day, before my generation, it was common to be in your early 20s and married and have a kid and just like be quote unquote very settled down.

What's your relationship status?

Where are you in your life?

I'm engaged right now.

You're engaged.

Okay.

No kids?

Nope.

All right.

Just a dog.

So you and your fiancé, you still have a lot of freedom and flexibility.

You also have the benefit of like, you're only engaged, not married, but there's a level of security you have by having a partner.

You know, and I'm guessing in these bad times, not bad times, but in these times of uncertainty for you.

having your fiancé as a support system is helpful.

But I guess what I'm trying to say is like, nowadays, people are settling down much later in life.

Twenties are like being teen.

It's like a second decade of being a kid.

No, you know, it's like there's

not a ton of expectation on 20 year olds today to have their shit figured out.

Society is all is saying, it's okay.

It's like, it's cool.

Like, don't worry about it.

Like 50 years ago, the society did not offer 20 year olds that much grace.

Right.

And yet, nowadays, it seems like a lot of people in their 20s don't want to take advantage of that grace that society is offering them to try new things out, to switch things up, but you still have, whatever you switch it up and do, you still have to be willing to pay your dues.

Like that's the part you guys can't cheat or figure out.

No one is going to be like, yeah, come in and like run my company or, you know, whatever.

You know, like.

As someone who hires people and

I feel like I see an eye for talent, right?

But I could see a talented person that I think has

the mindset, the work ethic, the creativity, but they're still green, you know, they still don't have the experience.

You know, you just, I don't know, like the more you do things, things slow down in a good way.

You know, it's like the law of 10,000 hours.

Like you can't cheat experience and time and

things like that.

So, you know, whatever you decide to do, you will not get to where you want to be without putting in some type of grinding and work and having moments of,

I don't want to like,

you know, but you have to find the thing where you are willing to grind because there's a part of that work you still enjoy.

You know, for me, again, the sales, I didn't like making the hundred calls, but I liked the, all it took is one good phone call to like validate that day, you know, and even if that phone call wasn't a sale, but like, yeah, okay, I'll meet with you.

Sure.

All right.

And I was able to like turn a no into a yes.

Like I was able to, you know, for me, I can measure success that way.

You have to figure out how you can measure success because like you, what you couldn't do in your accounting job, architecture job is like nothing felt like a success.

It was just another mundane task that you had to do.

Yeah.

I get that.

I mean, there was one point where I had like one of the boring box buildings was on the cover of a magazine.

So that was cool.

Okay.

That was exciting.

Yeah.

I think it, you're right about the getting my ass up and working like the, you know, thousand hour thing or 10,000 hour thing, whatever.

Like I, it's really about seeing, seeing it through from that like initial boring ass period and just getting through it.

You'll remember this conversation four years from now when you turn 30.

Yeah.

And either, either you will have been glad you invested your time and energy in something and push through.

or you will regret not doing it.

Yeah,

absolutely.

And four years goes by real fast.

It sure does.

Yeah.

Don't be afraid to reinvest and don't feel, don't be afraid to, in some ways, feel like you're starting over.

That's fair.

Whatever you care about, most people can be good at anything they care about.

Because if you care about it, you'll invest in it.

If you invest in it, you'll replicate it.

If you replicate it, you get good.

You might not be the best in the world, but you'll get pretty good.

I'm good at cooking because I like it.

I care.

I do it over and over.

You know, I've watched enough of YouTube videos to like learn how to do it.

You've probably in this time of like not working, have gotten better at things that you've started doing over and over.

Some of those things you've started to enjoy.

And, you know, if you care, you're good.

The problem is like you have to find something you care about.

Yeah.

It sounds like you didn't care that much about being in an architecture.

Yeah, I just feel like I was kind of stressing myself out a lot and like killing myself over it.

And like, I don't know, I've been able to invest a lot in like a good wellness routine now.

The anxiety would be pretty brutal and like it kind of messed up my sleep.

And

I just don't really want it to take over.

Like, I don't have to rely on like caffeine every second of the day to like get through stuff.

Like, that's just not really a great way to be, I feel like.

No, but there's other ways, you know, I don't know.

Sometimes you just need coffee.

Listen, I think it's a balance, right?

Just you are also too young to,

in my opinion you're too young to prioritize just having some zen life you know it's okay to have some stress in your life it's okay to like have a sleepless night or whatever but like

yeah you know you have a lot of time to you just don't want to turn 45 or 50 and wish you worked harder I promise you that it's a lot harder to start over every year you get older it's a lot harder to start over now like definitely now it like you're in a great period right now and like you're in some ways lucky that you're having this kind of like epiphany that you might want to reassess how you do things, but just don't be afraid to grind.

Yeah, I hear you.

No, this was really helpful.

I, I like really appreciate the way you lay this out for me.

And like, I don't know, you kind of like changed my mind about the way I'm thinking about the early days of work and everything.

Yeah.

It's like.

Nothing you're going to choose to do.

You're not going to find a job where day one, you're going to be making the money that you want to make.

And the day to day is exactly what you want it to be.

Like any dream job, you're going to have to pay your dues.

You just have to figure out what is the outcome that actually makes you happy.

Being on the cover of a magazine, kind of cool for you, but it doesn't sound like that's what really makes you happy.

And it doesn't sound like you really care about being the best architect.

in the world.

On a day-to-day basis, it doesn't sound like you find that much value in it.

And the fact that you haven't taken the time to even look to see like who makes the things that a Lalapalooza that you or Coachella that you thought were cool tells you like, is you know that you don't really care.

Yeah, that's valid.

I don't know.

I don't know if it's I don't care.

I just like, I don't think that I like have the skills to do that.

Well, you should try, you should try betting on yourself.

Again, I just nowadays, I will say, you know, I'm going to have to, again, sound like the, and I have to get going, but I'm a big believer.

And, you know, I know, I get it.

Like, it's harder and harder to buy a house, you know, not to get into a whole like the economic crisis and all the reasons why your generation is told to just like, you know, don't even try.

People are just like, fuck it.

You know, I can assure you that like, the way I look at life is either you're going to max, you either going to reach your potential or you're not going to reach your potential.

And the people who are willing to put in the work to reach their potential will enjoy their life better than the people who weren't.

Now, we all come from different privileges and different backgrounds, and life's not fair, but you have a certain level of potential, and either you're going to reach it or you're not going to reach it.

And doing whatever you can to reach that potential will be what makes you enjoy your life the most.

And it really has nothing to do about anyone else.

That's kind of how I look at life.

I'm never going to be an NBA center, you know,

whatever.

But my potential is different than someone else's potential.

And nowadays, there's so many people out there who find a bunch of reasons why they don't want to reach their potential that anyone out there willing to reach their potential has such a leg up on everyone else.

You know, you actually have less competition than I did because I honestly think more people your age just don't have what it takes to really reach their potential.

That's a good point, actually.

So.

All right.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for this.

This is really helpful, honestly.

All right.

Well, take care.

Give us a follow-up call in a month or two and let me know where you're at.

Sounds good.

Thanks, Ike.

All right.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

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How's it going?

It's going good.

How are you doing?

I'm good.

What's your name?

My name is Taylor, and I'm 29 years old.

How can I help, Taylor?

So my husband left me when I was seven months pregnant and I just love to hear from a man's perspective and from someone who's also a father.

How do I make sense of that?

Well first of all I'm so sorry.

That's that sucks.

There's no other way to describe that.

Give me the details.

What happened?

Yeah, so we were married for five years.

We were living in Miami Beach, Florida.

And my

ex-husband was an aspiring professional tennis player.

So he was pursuing pursuing professional tennis, but hadn't quite made it to the A leagues, I guess if I'd put it in that sense.

He was still playing in the B leagues.

At that time, we decided we wanted to build a family while we were living in Miami.

So we decided to get pregnant.

And after we decided to get pregnant, we made the decision to move to North Carolina, where my family lives, just because it's really important that

our daughter be near family.

And also, it's very expensive in Miami.

It's a very expensive city.

And we just felt like we could give our daughter a better life in North Carolina.

So we moved to North Carolina when I was six months pregnant.

And when I was seven months pregnant, the day after Christmas, he sat me down and asked for a divorce and said that he was not happy in North Carolina and that he wanted to move back to Miami.

And mind you, we had just got a townhome together.

And

yeah, he did just that.

He left and he moved back to Miami.

And I was

set to face the rest of my pregnancy alone and bearing the weight of now losing my husband.

So it was a lot of

trauma paired with excitement for a new baby.

So just juggling both of those was definitely an emotional roller coaster.

Where was Where was he the last two months of your pregnancy?

Like, did he Miami?

Did he even show up for the delivery?

He was there for the delivery.

Yes.

I messaged him and said, Hey, I'm going to be giving birth soon.

If you'd like to be there, it's probably going to happen in the next few weeks.

And he said, I'm going to try and be back there in North Carolina, get an Airbnb and be there for those last two weeks for when she comes.

And I said, Hey, you know, she might come early.

You can't, you can't plan when that happens.

So you may miss it.

But does he have any interest in being a dad?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We talked about it our entire marriage.

He I'm talking about now i'm not you know oh now now that he is a father does it does he have an interest in being a dad does he does he act like he has an interest his words yes his actions no okay he's visited once and she's now six months old he's seen her once once yeah This is like, there's no way to slice this.

Like, this is, this sucks, right?

I just want to acknowledge that.

And you have the right to feel like this sucks.

That being said, you're just going to have to get through this.

And you will get through this.

And I'm sorry, you know, he's a, he's, he's a terrible person.

I don't know.

He's, he's a selfish person.

Maybe that's more accurate.

He's incredibly selfish.

And honestly, like, as shitty as you found out, the manner in which you found out.

I know someone's probably already said this to you, but when it comes to like this type of terrible news, you're, the sooner you find out, the better.

In retrospect, I do think it was a blessing that I found out before she arrived because I was able to grieve and process it before she was here.

Any type of man to do that at seven months, first of all, he doesn't even understand the stress that he caused you and your daughter.

He's a piece of shit.

There's just no other way to slice that, right?

I mean, and it's hard because a lot of people assume, okay, you know, your husband left you, you're a single mom.

Oh, you must have gotten pregnant accidentally.

I'm like, no, I was married for five years because a lot of times when it happens, it's.

Yeah, whatever the reason why.

I mean, it's just,

is he still pursuing his dream to be a tennis player?

Yeah, he is.

And I think that's the biggest problem is that a fuzzy yellow ball has always been more important than anything else to him.

And I should have seen signs earlier on in our marriage when he decided not to attend his sister's wedding for a tennis tournament just little things like that red flags that i ignored yeah i don't know i would have beat myself up over that you're supposed to be able to trust the person you marry and you're supposed to be able to take people at their word and you're not supposed to be in a relationship where you have to second guess every little thing he's chasing this dream a dream that's very hard to accomplish.

And you do have to make a lot of sacrifices.

I'm sure he's convinced himself of that and justified some of his selfish choices.

that being said there is there's always a line you know to me you know if he wanted to get married and he wanted to be a dad he should have been able to figure out how to do both you know i think very few people work harder than me i'm a better husband and a better dad than i am a worker and i'm still crushing it and and work you know you just you find a balance yeah i think the biggest thing for him is he feels like he has to be in miami because that's where there's year-round tennis because it's it's sunny.

Um, and yeah, but like, I don't, that's really not really the point.

Cause

correct me if I'm wrong, I'm guessing when you guys had this conversation about moving to North Carolina,

you could have said, listen, I, I know it's not ideal, I know it's expensive, but like, I need to be here and we'll just, we just, let's figure it out in Miami.

You might not have liked it, but I'm guessing you would have made that work.

Yeah, anything to keep our marriage

functioning.

Yeah.

I mean, the truth is, Mike, you know, he's going to end up being a lifetime coach at a country club.

Let's just be real here.

You know what I'm saying?

He's going to end, you know, he's going to date around and he's going to be one of those cliché single guy.

Like the type of guy who can leave his pregnant wife at seven months and move back to Miami and then visit his daughter once in six months.

is the type of guy who, quite honestly, he does not have what it takes to make it.

He doesn't.

Like you have to have a certain level of character and follow through.

And he is definitely a quitter.

If he really believed in his ability to make it as a tennis pro and he thought, and if he thought he needed to be in Miami, he would have never moved back in the first place.

Like something's not adding up.

You know, in my mind, one plus one isn't equaling two.

I think what you have is some guy who like at the end of the day, didn't want to grow up.

He loves playing tennis.

I don't think, you know, now he's just going to keep playing and convince himself he's still trying.

But at the end of the day, he's probably not going to ever really make it.

And he's definitely going to be like really good at tennis and he'll become like some kind of novelty act.

And he'll, you know, like, honestly, again, he'll, he'll be, he'll be a tennis pro at a country club.

Yeah.

And what's interesting when you mentioned the tennis and country club.

So when we moved to North Carolina, that's what he did.

He got a job at a country club being a coach and he hated it.

And that was part of his decision to move back to Miami was, okay, I don't want to just settle for working at a country club.

I want to keep pursuing my dreams.

So when we moved to North Carolina, he kind of made that sacrifice and said, I'm starting a family.

I'm kind of, I'm giving up on professional tennis and doing coaching.

But then he just had to actually, no, I don't want to do that.

I'm going to move back and keep pursuing my dreams and leave my wife.

How good is, how good at tennis is he?

He's really good.

It's, it's just

compared to the best.

I don't, not compared to me.

He's in the top 1,000.

But in tennis, in order order to be making a lot of money, you've got to be in the top 100.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

How old is he?

He's 25.

It's getting up there for professional athletes, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

So, and I'm guessing most of the people who aren't in the top 100 with aspirations of being in the top 100.

are in like our 18, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old.

Exactly.

And that's how it was when we first got married.

And when he was 20, we were traveling all over the world for his tennis.

We were living in Northern Africa and Colombia.

And he had sponsors.

He had older men that would give him money to play tennis because they thought he had a shot.

But when he wasn't winning tournaments, the sponsors started to fizzle out.

And that's when his career started to plummet.

Yeah.

And I was financially supporting us the entire time.

Well, that's, I mean, listen, like giving you the tough love, not that you need, you don't need tough love, but you're going to through this and you have a right to like feel bad for yourself because like this sucks.

You do.

Yeah.

There is a point where you just have to stop feeling bad for yourself and

not let this ruin your life.

You know what I mean?

This is a type of event that like is so traumatic and so like fucked up that since you have every right to feel bad for yourself, it could drastically ruin your life.

It could change your life.

It could, you know, I'm a big believer if you listen to the show and like our choices matter.

Life's not fair.

And we will make certain choices that we don't get back.

And it's not because, you know, your husband didn't leave you because everything happens for a reason.

You know what I'm saying?

You weren't destined to have this happen for you.

It's not fate.

It's just dumb fucking luck.

And it's not fair.

And it happened to you.

That being said, you know, I'm looking at you right now.

You have a beautiful daughter i'm guessing i'm sure she's the love of your life i i you know yeah you wouldn't trade it for the world even though it came from that piece of right you you have obviously a career or ability to not only support yourself or your daughter but you have some you have you had to support him you don't even have to support him anymore who knows whether he's gonna like contribute or not, but that's certainly something an option for you.

But like, you're clearly young enough that like, not ideal, not certainly where you imagine yourself to be.

And I'm saying this again, like maybe not my place, but you did call in.

This is the, what you were dealt and you're just going to have to figure it out and you can and you will.

And I just think you're better off having that mindset.

And I only say that because like, given what happened to you, again, no one,

no one would fault you from just feeling sorry for yourself.

But that's not going to get you anywhere.

That is only going to give him more power.

And that is only going to give him more credit he doesn't deserve.

And

you have like, this is more of a clean slate.

It's honestly in some ways, you know, like it's like worst case scenario.

It's like he's the type of guy who wants a cake and eat it too.

And he wants to be difficult, make your life a living hell and not really be a dad, but like wants to think he can be a dad's, you know what I'm saying?

Like there's, there's a, there's a million ways this could be more difficult.

And as shitty as it is that he, you know, he doesn't care and you want him to care, like it honestly makes your life a lot easier.

Like, I, I pity your daughter a little bit because her dad's, you know, not a dad.

But as far as you're concerned, honestly, like, maybe for the best in a way.

I don't know if any of this is helpful.

I don't, I don't like, yeah, it's helpful.

But like, I guess, what were you hoping to get out of this conversation?

Like, what were you hoping to feel, if anything, when you got off the call with me?

I think just validation from a man's perspective, because I hear from all of my female friends that it's awful what he did, but there have been a few of his friends that have reached out and said, hey, you know, he's trying to pursue his dreams.

You can't fault him for that.

He's a piece of shit.

His friends are losers.

And I don't like, he's a piece of shit.

I don't, I'm just like,

yeah, he's a piece of shit.

He should be embarrassed.

He should be ashamed.

And if most like, I don't know, he's either going to wake, maybe he won't, maybe he's too selfish, but like he is on a path to like kind of being a loser.

Yeah.

And then in the reality of life, and again, when you're 25, especially someone like him, right?

Who's already been able to travel the world?

He's had the opportunity to chase a dream.

Most people don't even have that chance.

And maybe this will be a silver lining for you to feel better in the future.

But when you have big dreams, you can crash pretty hard.

And maybe, and that's probably why he's, you know, is struggling with it.

But he clearly doesn't have whatever it takes to move the fuck on.

and to reinvent himself.

I had to reinvent myself multiple times, you know, like I didn't imagine I'd be like a podcaster talking about pop culture with an audience full of women.

You know, it's like I didn't plan that for myself.

It worked out in a sense.

You know, I was able to find out what I was passionate about.

Like there were times when I was younger that I, you know, thought of like being a therapist and things like that and thought it was too late to be, go to school.

But like the aspect of like this type of stuff, like I'm passionate about it.

I enjoy it, whatever.

But he doesn't have what it takes to adapt, to follow through.

You know, he's at the excuse-making point of his career.

And the fact that he has his buddies calling you up, telling him to like, I don't know, what was the goal of them calling him up?

Like to forgive him to, like, to what?

Well, a lot of the times they reach out, it's to pry to get information about what's going on in his life because he, when he divorced me, he also cut out his family and his friends.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, so a lot of times they're just trying to pry, and then with that, I share information with them, which I should not even be doing in the first place.

I should not be responding to them, but then they somehow sometimes

try and have his back.

It's

your silver lining is like as bad as it feels right now for you uh you're gonna have the chance to figure your shit out you're gonna have a chance to like pick up the pieces that of the mess he made yeah you'll be able to find love again uh you'll be able to like raise your daughter and have a connection with her something he is eventually gonna regret you know a lot of deadbeat dads out there who have the embarrassing conversation with their kids or adults and they have to apologize for being deadbeat dads And if you're Tom Brady

and you're the best in the world at what you do, there's a slightly a silver lining.

But even Tom Brady, you know, has spoken about regrets of his, you know, most likely your ex-husband won't be Tom Brady.

He will just be stuck doing the thing.

He's going to end up being a coach at a country club without his family, without having a relationship with his daughter, knowing that he was a piece of shit and he didn't like he, he just, you know, it's like he couldn't be the best in tennis and

was a failure as a father yeah exactly i mean like you know some people are losers in this world most no everyone like thinks you know that's that they are i think so i think some people are just losers and not be you know because they don't have what it takes they don't want to respond to adversity they don't want to suck it up they don't want to make sacrifices they won't want to find a silver lining you know there's a you know maybe your husband didn't want to be you know it's fine he didn't want he didn't have to be a country club instructor his whole life.

That was a potential temperature.

That was a stopgap.

You know, it was something that allowed him to make money, provide for his family, do what he still loved, but like maybe it just wasn't in the cars for him to play tennis his whole life.

You know, most of us who are good at sports only get to play competitive sports through college.

If you're lucky at that, you know, most of us, it's high school.

He was lucky enough to keep going, but he didn't want to accept that he had to like grow up a little bit.

And now he's just like, he's literally chasing a dream, a dream that's like only getting worse.

And now he's just like showing up to tournaments.

Like, and though it's funny, it's like deep down, he knows he's not going to make it which is why he's cut out his family because he's embarrassed and he's so selfish that he would rather be selfish and and and rather than face the truth that he just like couldn't hack it and it's not embarrassing to say you know what i wanted to make the olympics when i was in track and field like i didn't fucking melt down and like you know just because like hey i wasn't good enough it's fine you know like sometimes there are certain things in this world especially when it comes to athletics you know it's just like

you have to be able to pivot.

Yeah, it's like your, your ex-husband was born with some incredible gifts, but he wasn't born with enough, you know, because it sounds like he works pretty hard.

I don't know, maybe not, though.

Like, he's clearly a quitter.

That's for sure.

Like, the fact that he did what he did to you, it's in his DNA to quit.

And the manner in which he quit is so outrageous.

that it is a character flaw in him.

Anyone who's been reached a certain milestone is not going to see him leaving his family as a sign of his dedication to being successful at tennis.

They're going to see it as a sign of him as a failure, as a person, and that he lacks certain characteristics in follow-through and dedication and the ability to like work through adversity.

Yeah.

That's how I see it.

Exactly.

And tennis is a sport where people don't just follow the sport and the player, they also follow their lives too.

And even if he was to make it and people knew that he was an absent father, it probably wouldn't boast well for him.

No, he's he's he quit.

He quit.

Yeah.

You know, he's going to have, you know, I hope he doesn't have any mirrors because he's going to have a hard time looking.

And he's a bum.

I mean, he's going to be a bum.

Yeah, he is.

It's sad because he had also, he's an immigrant, so he was born in West Africa and he got citizenship through marriage as well.

And he's just

able to pursue the quote-unquote American dream and have a healthy family life because he didn't have a very healthy family life and he just was given so much of a blessing and he just tossed it in the trash, didn't realize what he had.

But that's his problem.

I think you're what you need to do.

I mean, you know, I'm here to commiserate with you and didn't validate that he is a bum and a loser and his friends are, you know, they're all, you know, you can give them grace because they're scrambling too, because he clearly has made some radical decisions.

But my best advice I can offer you is to not become obsessed with putting him down to make yourself feel better.

Like you just got to know that and let it go.

Yeah.

You know, and you got to focus on being the best mom possible.

You got to focus on getting your life back together at a place where you like don't feel sorry for yourself and start feeling more proud.

You know, you got to focus on what you are doing that you can be proud of rather than focus on what happened to you where you feel like a victim.

I mean, you are a victim.

There's no no doubt about it.

You are a victim of this guy, right?

But like, I wouldn't let it define you and I wouldn't sit in that state of mind.

And I would use it as something to like, look what I overcame.

I would focus on five years from now and how you can, and the story you can tell whoever listens about what you've been able to work through and what you can be proud of and what your, what the story your daughter is going to be able to tell people at her graduation or whatever it is about what mom did for me and what she sacrificed for me.

And you can be the most pivotal person in her life.

And I would absolutely focus on that rather than focus on what he did or, or, or, or, or follow his career and hope that it fails.

I've told myself, if I can go through 46 hours of unmedicated labor while grieving the loss of my husband, I can do damn near anything.

Yes.

I mean, but that's the mindset you have to have.

You really do.

Be the person he clearly is not capable of being.

Yeah, I will.

Anything for my daughter.

And I hope that she sees that I'm doing everything I can for her.

And I'll never bad mouth her father to her.

She'll be able to

make that.

Yeah, she'll figure it out on her own.

Yeah.

I'm really sorry.

It sucks.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

So yeah, you'll, you'll, you'll get through it.

How's your, I mean, I'm assuming you, you're, you feel good about your support system around you and your family and your, you know, your immediate family and things like that.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

My family's been a godsend.

My mom, she moved in with me while I was pregnant to be there for me.

And they all live in North Carolina within 10 minutes of me.

So I have a big support system with my family and also friends.

Okay.

Well, there you go.

Then I'd love to inspire other single moms and use my story to empower other moms going through something similar.

Absolutely.

All right.

Well, thanks for the call.

I am sorry this happened to you.

Please, please check back in.

We'd love an update on how things are progressing, especially as you move forward to brighter and better things.

Yeah, I definitely will.

Thank you so much, Nick.

I really appreciate it.

All right, take care.

All right, bye-bye.

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