E1031 - Mandy Matney Talks Murdaugh Murders, Gerry Turner's Terrifying Comments, RHOC, RHOP & Wife Swap

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Speaker 1 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vafiles Reality Recap Lake House Edition. That's right, Nellie and I are here at the lake.
We have a great show lined up for you.

Speaker 1 So many exciting announcements to get into. We are all at the household wearing merch.
That's right. A thousand episodes later, six years later, we finally have merch that we are proud of.

Speaker 1 Over the years, if you've been with us since the beginning, we've dabbled in the merch department. But here at the Vile Files at NV Media, the household cares about quality.

Speaker 1 We care about what we put on our bodies. We care about like, it has to be good.
We want to believe in it. And we finally have merch that we love.
It's comfortable. It's cozy.
It looks good.

Speaker 1 Natalie put a lot of heart and sweat and thought into this. She hired a graphic designer who works on like music albums.
You know, the person who did our logo for the Vile Fowles Media.

Speaker 1 It is rocking and rolling. The merch goes on sale on Thursday.
Join our countdown for the launch of our merch.

Speaker 1 Go to the link in bio on the show's Instagram or my personal Instagram to join the countdown.

Speaker 7 It's really soft too.

Speaker 1 The aesthetic is aestheticing.

Speaker 1 I'm really proud of it. Natalie did an amazing job.
Support Natalie's creative efforts and get our merch.

Speaker 8 Rachel Ritt was our graphic designer. She has done the album covers for In Merch for Ed Sheeran, The Grateful Dead, Fleetwood Mac.

Speaker 8 Fleetwood Mac. I mean, like, I'm on her Instagram right now.

Speaker 4 On the top of her resume.

Speaker 8 Valfowl's merch. She is non-stop.
And now at the top of her resume, Valfowl's merch.

Speaker 5 Yeah, who even is Fleetwood Manic?

Speaker 4 Exactly. Never heard of him.

Speaker 1 Grateful Dead? Nah. Also, this episode, we have Mandy Matney.
She's an investigative journalist covering the Murdoch murders.

Speaker 1 She's also the executive producer for the series that's now on Hulu Murdoch Death in the Family. She's been covering this case since the beginning.

Speaker 1 What's so fascinating about her, and her character is played by Britney Snow in this series. She was investigating the Murdoch family because of the boat crash that killed Mallory Beach.

Speaker 1 So she was already like very much involved in investigating this family and all their kind of shady dealings when the murder of Maggie and Paul happened.

Speaker 1 So that's this kind of, I mean, talk about a front row seat, this entire case. I mean, she is a part of the case.
And again, her character

Speaker 1 is played in the series. So she joins us this episode to give us all the 401 on the case itself.
What is accurate about this series? What's not? What are some creative liberties?

Speaker 1 It's very fascinating. And she will be joining us later this episode.

Speaker 8 Patricia Arquette plays Maggie, the wife, the mother. You know, if you know anything about Patricia Arquette, she can play a mom.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 8 She can play a mom. Gypsy Rose.

Speaker 4 There we go. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Her most famous character, Alabama, from True Romance.

Speaker 4 Shut up.

Speaker 8 It's Patricia Arquette, Jason Clark.

Speaker 1 Jason Clark is playing Alex Murdoch.

Speaker 4 Alec. Alex Murdoch.

Speaker 8 Which is crazy that he is like has a British accent. He's from London or England and he like puts on this southern southern accent so well.
He gained 40 pounds for the role. It's like, whoa.

Speaker 8 They did, yeah, they crushed this. And the only thing that pisses me off about this damn show is that every other word is Bo.
And let me tell you, being from the South, we don't use Bo that much.

Speaker 8 We do use it. Bo.
Like, bro.

Speaker 4 Bo?

Speaker 5 Bro, or like, it's like a, you know.

Speaker 8 So Bo is bro.

Speaker 4 I guess. Kind of.

Speaker 8 They really used in a bro way.

Speaker 4 They really emphasize it on the show.

Speaker 8 Everyone's used it. They really emphasize it, which is a little annoying for me.

Speaker 8 Can you give me a sentence? What are you doing over there, Bo?

Speaker 1 Should we go to the star, Bo? Bo, that really hurts his feelings, Bo.

Speaker 5 This is when I realize I'm not from the real South.

Speaker 4 It's like an accent, right?

Speaker 7 Like, you're just not pronouncing the R as much.

Speaker 8 I don't know, but honestly, like, we don't use it that much. And it's, that's my one critique of this, this, the writing of this show.
And I, you know, I'm open to asking Mandy about it.

Speaker 8 I have a feeling she will be like, that was not a me department. You know,

Speaker 1 we are really excited.

Speaker 1 Unnecessary, Steve.

Speaker 8 Steve. Steve has a bone to pick about not being on the sweatshirt.
So he said, let me on the episode.

Speaker 5 Literally.

Speaker 8 And I, you know what? Let me just explain myself with that design thought. Yeah, please.
I am actually curious. So on the back of our gray hoodie and our beige crew neck is a picture of Jeff.

Speaker 8 And that is because Jeff is Nick, you know, and like no one besides me would really want a hoodie with Nick on it. So I was like, what's the next best thing? Oh, Jeff.
He looks like Nick.

Speaker 8 He acts like Nick. He is an introvert like Nick.
He gives his opinion like Nick.

Speaker 4 Jeff is Nick.

Speaker 8 So I figured, why not? And like, who doesn't want to wear something with a cute dog on it?

Speaker 1 A grumpy

Speaker 4 dog.

Speaker 8 A cute golden doodle. It's perfect.
He's sitting in Nick's chair. He has a mic.
It's cute. And then our black hoodie sweatset is the iconic Do You Want to Be Right or Do You Want to Be Happy?

Speaker 8 Which is a ASNIC

Speaker 8 staple um it's very colorful it's very cute and you might get stopped in line at coffee by your future lover yeah if you wear it wow wait

Speaker 8 mary's wearing it head to toe right now let's go she's ready i'm really ready mary just updated her hinge so well you know who's never grumpy lake nick

Speaker 1 that is honestly so true y'all lake nick's a different person I have nothing but gratitude when I'm at the lake. I'm living the dream.
Every time I'm up here, I'm like, I can't believe we're here.

Speaker 1 It is really just like a surreal thing. like i'm just really excited to be at the lake i hope all do you guys all have like a special like where is your special place on this earth my bed

Speaker 4 it's a good place my bed with my your bed

Speaker 1 my bed is there like a location that like you just feel at peace outside of your bed i have a beach i was gonna say specifically the beach like with my mom

Speaker 4 there you go yeah shopping Yes, of course.

Speaker 5 No, that stresses me out.

Speaker 1 If Justin could live anywhere in peace, it would be Azara's. Azara's?

Speaker 4 Azara's.

Speaker 4 I've shopped in Azara's like twice in my life. Wait, Zara actually kind of popped off recently.

Speaker 7 She's like, Zara's does pop off, but I've been in it like twice in my life.

Speaker 5 Wait, we're saying Zara's. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Zara? Zara. Like the story.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Mary's never heard of it. No, I know.

Speaker 5 Excuse me. I have pieces from Zara.
I was just saying you were saying Zara's.

Speaker 8 Yeah, y'all were making it. Justin does make most things plural.

Speaker 4 I know. You'll notice.
I love that about my dialect, okay? I love that.

Speaker 1 But when he wants to say women, he says woman.

Speaker 7 No,

Speaker 7 I'm saying it with an A. I just pronounce it with an E.

Speaker 7 Like I visualize the A. A woman.

Speaker 5 It's like when he describes someone who was a social worker as working in socials.

Speaker 4 That was a joke, though.

Speaker 1 Well, the hot tub and the sauna are in at the lake house. And

Speaker 1 it's giving spa, it's giving cozy. It really is.
I get to sit fireplace, sauna, hot tub.

Speaker 8 I will say best place ever is in a hot tub when it's cold.

Speaker 8 Outside. Like when it's snowing.

Speaker 4 Looking at the lake.

Speaker 8 That's what it looks like you guys were doing. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. 33 degrees outside.

Speaker 8 My dream date.

Speaker 1 Guys, tonight, like, but by the time you guys are listening, this tomorrow, hopefully the Green Bay Packers will have been victorious over the Eagles of Philadelphia. My dad and I are going.

Speaker 1 Super excited. It's a cold weather game.
This is like, I don't know, maybe this is something only for the boys. I don't know.

Speaker 1 But like, it may surprise some people that I am not necessarily like the camping kind of guy.

Speaker 1 I'm not necessarily Mr. Rugged,

Speaker 1 but there's something that I get really excited about, and that is to like prepare my outdoor outfit.

Speaker 1 It's like when fashion meets sports and I get to like my aesthetic for the game, but I have to be able to stay warm and it's like a whole production.

Speaker 8 Where is your outfit going to be?

Speaker 4 Well, I have this green bay.

Speaker 1 I have a green bay jacker bomber. That's like, you would think, oh, Nick, how could you wear this at a game that's going to be anywhere from like 27 to 30 degrees?

Speaker 1 Which is like for Green Bay is not that cold, but you'll be, I'll be standing outside with my dad, but I have a bunch of, it's all about the layers.

Speaker 1 And I got like a Columbia, like in, like a thermo jacket, and I got a bunch of tights I'm wearing to keep the legs warm.

Speaker 4 Like those athletic workouts.

Speaker 1 I got some long johns too. Got pantyhose.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Long johns and tights.
Let's go.

Speaker 1 Two layers of tights and long johns and then slacks and then a packer hoodie and then a packer hat.

Speaker 7 What about the hand warmers?

Speaker 1 what about socks i got all those hand warmers ready to go well put them in yeah what's your sock game oh yeah double socks and double sock it up insulated nothing worse than cold toes true yeah you got to protect your feet it's all about the feet he also

Speaker 1 it gets me excited to like survive out in the cold it's like it makes me i'm like fantasizing about what it'd be like to be like stranded in the Arctic by myself and I have to have all the survival gear.

Speaker 1 That's my mentality going into a Packer game.

Speaker 7 You know how men used to like hunt for food for their families? Yeah. I respect that men now get to survive a Packers game.

Speaker 4 That's exactly what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 It'll also be stuffed in there like sardines. You're going to have a bunch of body heat.

Speaker 4 It gets me so excited.

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm a caveman just like preparing for survival.

Speaker 8 He made me pause my show the other night to tell me his list of items of clothing he's wearing.

Speaker 1 That was very exciting.

Speaker 8 And then ended with like, I don't know, I just wanted to tell you.

Speaker 8 What are you bringing to Bravocon?

Speaker 4 I haven't packed.

Speaker 8 Should I be packed? Are you excited to pack for that?

Speaker 4 Yes, you should be paying what you're going to wear.

Speaker 1 Do I need like a kit, a survival kit for BravoCon?

Speaker 4 You might. I am going to my first BravoCon.

Speaker 1 We are going. Leia, Justin, and Sierra will all be joining.

Speaker 1 I will be there just hamming it up with all the fans. I'll be there on behalf of European Wax Center at their conference booth.

Speaker 1 So if you want to learn all about some waxing and hang out with me, come and say hello. What do people do at BravoCon?

Speaker 1 I'm really intimidated by this audience. I feel like I'm really about to embark on a whole new universe.

Speaker 4 Do you think you'll be welcome?

Speaker 4 For sure.

Speaker 1 I got a random text from Whitney Rose, and she was like, are you going to BravoCon? I said yes. And that was the end of the conversation.
I don't know. Does she need a heads up? Is she like...

Speaker 8 Is that a pulse check? Well, but you didn't yes and. You just said yes.
That's true.

Speaker 5 You should have been like, yes. Will I need a follow-up?

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 8 Were we meeting up?

Speaker 1 It was, I just answered the question.

Speaker 8 You still can.

Speaker 1 I kind of want to be surprised.

Speaker 5 Whitney, if you listen to this, text Nick back.

Speaker 1 Who's one Bravo celebrity you hope you get to talk to?

Speaker 7 That's hard because we talk to so many.

Speaker 10 There's so many. Lisa Marlowe.

Speaker 8 I'm excited to see Katie Janella again. She'll be there.

Speaker 7 Karen Huger is going to be there.

Speaker 8 Karen Huger is going to be there.

Speaker 8 That's big. Her first appearance since being released from prison.

Speaker 7 Any Dubai housewives.

Speaker 5 Is Tom Swartz and his new girlfriend going i sure hope so i mean he's on the valley isn't he this year a new girlfriend named kiana carol very beautiful model i believe so they hard launched yes via instagram anyone check on lella

Speaker 5 so we checked on gina she don't

Speaker 4 either

Speaker 8 yes she will and she already has the beef with tamara and katie after them having

Speaker 1 mike shea perform at their reviewing party that's crazy is this is this real beef like is she is she been like, hey, I'm mad at these ladies and I want revenge?

Speaker 7 She's like low-key campaigning to get on OC.

Speaker 7 Alex Baskin also posted like OC with Sheena in it. It's like that's teasing something.
Yeah. She said she would love to be on OC Housewives.
She was looped into the Katie drama of it all.

Speaker 8 That's what I was saying was that Sheena was pissed at Tamara and Teddy because Teddy had Katie on

Speaker 8 an episode. And they said that Sheena was the start of all of the Kiki Monique drama and whatnot.
So then they were going back and forth over social media.

Speaker 8 Sheena went out to like a horror nights or whatever and got one of those scary dressed clowns and was like, found a cast member from OC, like throwing shade back and forth.

Speaker 8 And I don't even know if they're doing squash the beef this year at BravoCon.

Speaker 4 So it feels like squash the beef.

Speaker 8 So they have this segment every year where it's the biggest Bravo celeb feuds

Speaker 8 face each other. Like they sit down and they like pretty much have like a little panel going back and forth so that they can squash the beef or not

Speaker 1 um yeah it's like it's a juicy it's a juicy segment but i didn't see it on the schedule this year do you think anyone's gonna want to squash their beef with us do you think we'll catch any strays like uh vicki gundelson caught one on this reunion a lot of people catch strays yeah a lot of who would you want to sit across from to squash beef i don't have beef with anybody cool you know who probably aren't gonna squash their beef at bravacon anytime soon Who?

Speaker 5 Garcelle and Sutton.

Speaker 4 I mean, I'm going to go to the bathroom. What's going on with them? Yeah, why would Garcelle go?

Speaker 5 Basically, Garcelle and Sutton were both on a red carpet, and Garcelle had her back turned to Sutton the entire time and was just ignoring her.

Speaker 7 I know. She's love Garcel, love Sutton, but I mean, they're not holding back.
They're clearly not friends right now. No.

Speaker 5 And I personally love to see drama between two.

Speaker 7 To turn your back on a red carpet is a very blatant sign that you don't like someone because you're usually standing side by side, no?

Speaker 8 Do you know who will be at BravoCon? Who? Some of the new cast members of Beyond the Villa season two.

Speaker 4 Really? Okay. That's exciting.
Why would they be there?

Speaker 7 Why would they be at BravoCon?

Speaker 8 I don't know. They just are going.

Speaker 4 Well, it's

Speaker 4 Tom Cock. Did they say they're going? Are you saying vertical integration?

Speaker 8 They definitely are going. Chanel and Carolyn Stansberry will be there for you, Justin.

Speaker 4 Caroline,

Speaker 7 love her. The whole cast.
Bring back Dubai.

Speaker 8 We've got Carol Rodswell's going to be there.

Speaker 4 Carol Rodswell.

Speaker 7 She said that she's not coming back, but she's back on.

Speaker 8 Jeremiah, Amaya, and Iris will make an appearance at BravoCon on Sunday, November 16th. Do we think season two of Beyond the Villa new cast was their plan plan all along?

Speaker 8 Of like every season is the new Love Island cast, or do we feel like season one cast maybe didn't give what they thought they would give, so they had to do a recast?

Speaker 8 For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, we have a new cast for season two of Beyond the Villa, and it is not the cast that was from season one of Beyond the Villa.

Speaker 8 The new cast is going to be Amaya, Andrina, Beldasha, Brian, Chris, Clark, Coco, Grayson, Hannah, Iris, Jeremiah, Pepe, Taylor, and TJ. Interesting that we have Iris, Pepe, and TJ love triangle.

Speaker 8 We have exes, Amaya, and Brian. A lot of Casa Amore.
We have Hannah there.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Coco and Grayson, interesting.

Speaker 8 I'm just like, I feel like they're kind of banking off of the hopes that we care about like the drama of the love triangles, but I mean, I personally don't.

Speaker 8 I think probably it, this is what I think happened. Natalie, to your original question,

Speaker 8 I think they probably couldn't get a lot of their heaviest hitters from season one to come back.

Speaker 4 You think that's the only thing that they probably,

Speaker 8 I think, that's my, that's my thought, only because it's like Aaron's in the UK, you've got Kayla in New York. Well, it's Leah and Miguel.
I don't know if they would have signed up again.

Speaker 8 Like, you have like Serena and I would be shocked. Janae and Kenny, like they're not going to want to do the show together again.
I would

Speaker 1 have to be shocked if when they signed their original deal, that the network didn't have an option to bring them back.

Speaker 1 So the fact that like, I don't know, the fact that they recasted this entire cast tells me that like, I don't know, that the season one didn't really perform the way they wanted it to.

Speaker 1 Wouldn't it make more sense to like have a group of people that they follow? I think to Nalia's point, they're just kind of like trying to make it work.

Speaker 8 Yeah, but I, I mean, I feel like there's no, there was, there's been so much drama that has happened with that group of people since season one aired, like Janae and Kenny, for example, like, and then everything that happened after that.

Speaker 8 I just feel like they would have renewed them if they could have. That's if they were willing to talk about the drama, so to speak.
That too. Like, maybe they were just like,

Speaker 8 I don't know.

Speaker 1 It can't be a great thing that they had to recast the whole thing.

Speaker 8 And in season three, are they going to recast again? Right, because it's like

Speaker 7 they'd have to at this point.

Speaker 8 I mean, it honestly

Speaker 8 makes sense. You know, you see what that cast from Love Island Island is doing beyond the villa for the next year, and then they're all influencers, and there's nothing else to follow.

Speaker 1 So, like,

Speaker 8 as if they just added to the cast, right? So, if it was like the original cast from season one, and then they added all these new people, and then you still have Leah pop in every once in a while.

Speaker 4 It's not realistic. That's weird.
These people don't hang out.

Speaker 8 Yeah, no, that's weird.

Speaker 8 You know, this could be interesting with the love triangles,

Speaker 8 but again, like, they don't have like Nick, but they're all the same.

Speaker 8 It's not going to be interesting with the love triangles because we have Iris and TJ, two of the most like unproblematic, less drama, don't give a fuck.

Speaker 8 They're just like happy being their like weird selves with each other. Like we're not going to have an Iris TJ fight with Pepe.
We're not going to have a Pepe jealous,

Speaker 8 you know, like we're not going to have that. These aren't the types of people.
Like we watched them on Love Island and they didn't give us that. So they wouldn't give it to us now.

Speaker 8 You know, I think Brian is, he knows that the world loves Amaya. He's not going to do anything to piss the the world off.

Speaker 1 There might be these forced scenes of them like being forced to talk about it, but I don't feel like it's gonna be all that organic or like new information.

Speaker 8 Well, that's how I felt about season one with like the Kayla and Liv drama. And I just was like.

Speaker 8 Like the top three comments on the post about it is we only want to watch Denae, Serena, and Leia just cancel the show. I'd rather see a season two be on the villa with PPG instead.

Speaker 8 No Ace, no Shelly, no Nick, no Alandria, no Hudda.

Speaker 4 Not happening.

Speaker 8 Right. Like, where's Ace and Shelly? I saw photos of Elandria and some guy holding hands.

Speaker 4 Was it a busy

Speaker 4 campaign? Yeah, it was a campaign.

Speaker 5 It was a campaign for sure. Yeah, it was a vlog campaign.
I did some digging there because I was like, yeah, because right after that, she was posting like really hot mirror selfies with Nick. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Well, Mary and I had a conversation where Mary was like, by the way, I told you so about Nick and Elandria.

Speaker 5 I was just like, it's crazy that I was right all along.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I was just like, all right, fair, whatever. And then the next day I saw it and I was about to send it to Mary, but then I was like, oh no, this is.

Speaker 5 The Underwing campaign. Sorry, she's booked and busy and a star.

Speaker 4 My girl. She is a star.

Speaker 8 Nobody ever said that she wasn't a star.

Speaker 5 I'm just saying day one when the cast got revealed, I saw Alandria and I was like, that's my girl.

Speaker 8 Are we going up to them at BravoCon? Amaya, Jeremiah, and Iris.

Speaker 1 If we see them, it's like on Sunday.

Speaker 5 You know what's a bummer?

Speaker 5 Are the selling sunset people?

Speaker 5 They don't go to BravoCon because it's

Speaker 4 Netflix.

Speaker 7 I think you and Leia don't know what BravoCon is.

Speaker 8 I catch a string.

Speaker 4 Every bit I try to move this into a new topic.

Speaker 8 I spent hours watching the new season of Selling Sunset. I consider it like, does River watch Bluey? No.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 8 Well, like, Bluey is supposed to be like the low...

Speaker 5 Cocomelon?

Speaker 8 No, Cocomelon's like high stimulating. It's supposed to be like low stimulation and like not much changes, but like clearly they learn something every time.

Speaker 8 That's kind of how I feel about Selling Sunset. It's like the Bluey for adult reality television.

Speaker 8 It's the same same story, the same thing over and over again, very like minimal stakes drama, except Emma and Chris have a falling out based off of Emma's boyfriend and Chris not liking him.

Speaker 8 And it's kind of spun the whole selling sunset, Chris the Hero edit on its head because everybody's now saying that Chrische is the villain of this season.

Speaker 1 Why is Chris the villain?

Speaker 8 A like

Speaker 8 because She's not supportive of her friend's relationship and it was very much like, I hate him, so you have to choose him over me um based off of the boyfriend he's 27 he's a billionaire's son and uh

Speaker 8 has

Speaker 8 differing political views than chris

Speaker 8 so um

Speaker 8 she's not the biggest fan of his and is like taken to the internet and now is like no longer friends with emma over it i mean i feel like i did not see much chatter about this season of selling sons i didn't even know it was out and like they put it all out plus a reunion like they just dropped out plus reunions all at once I feel like it was like a week break in between, but like by the time I started it, the reunion was up.

Speaker 4 I still haven't finished that though.

Speaker 8 And do we think it will be renewed for another season? I feel like it's really just died off.

Speaker 1 Because Chris, didn't she like announce her retirement or leaving the show?

Speaker 8 She did post saying that she is not returning for the next season.

Speaker 8 And also selling Orange County. And there's a New York one as well that they're kind of taking off in a way that Selling Sunset's kind of plateaued.

Speaker 8 I wouldn't be shocked that the show is still going to come back, but yeah, Crochet will not be joining the cast next season.

Speaker 5 Do you think Gary would ever come back to Golden Bachelor after threatening to chop up Teresa and hide her body in a shed?

Speaker 8 Do you think he added that in his memoir that he released? I think it was cut.

Speaker 5 I think the editor said no pun intended.

Speaker 4 Yikes.

Speaker 1 Did you hear about the Teresa, what's Teresa's last name?

Speaker 1 Teresa Nist, formerly the wife of your first Golden Bachelor, Gare.

Speaker 4 Gare Bear. Gare Bear.

Speaker 1 teresa went on our friends podcast uh dear shandy our friends charlene and andy who married us uh big interview good good great get for them but anyways theresa came on and she was spilling some tea fighting back when uh i think gary who wrote a tell album threw like a comment that teresa is supposed to be worried about this book well turns out according to teresa he joked about cutting up her body and murdering her.

Speaker 8 The exact quote is, you see that shed up there? I said, yeah. He said, well, that's where I'm going to hide your body after I kill you and chop you up.

Speaker 4 That's

Speaker 4 what the hell?

Speaker 8 Like, that's not like dark humor. That's, that's, that's just dark.
She said, I said, well, if this was his idea of a joke, that was pretty dark humor.

Speaker 4 I don't jokes like that.

Speaker 8 What did he say? Like, I wonder what the follow-up sentence was, silence? Like, are you serious? I feel like it was, that's, I don't know.

Speaker 8 I feel like, you know, when people are like, oh my God, I would kill you if you did that. But that's just a completely different phrase.
Like, you see that shed up there. There's your location.

Speaker 8 I would chop you up crazy. So detailed.
So detailed. And like, honestly.

Speaker 4 You kind of goose.

Speaker 8 How many times have you thought about this?

Speaker 5 There's dark humor, and then there's like soft launching your potential to have a Ryan Murphy show based on you.

Speaker 4 Literally.

Speaker 8 And Ryan Murphy would love previous Golden Bachelor, aka slasher.

Speaker 5 Ryan Murphy would go so hard with that.

Speaker 1 God, the Bachelor franchise just can't catch a win.

Speaker 8 I saw him on the Tamron Hall show,

Speaker 8 and she was like, why

Speaker 8 should she be worried? Or like, what was her response to like you saying she should be worried or something? And he was like, well, you know, she tried to call me and I did not answer.

Speaker 8 And then she texted me asking what it was that she needed to be worried about. And you know what? She can find out just like everybody else.
Read the book. I'm like, you are scary.

Speaker 1 He's a psycho. Allegedly.

Speaker 5 He is a psycho.

Speaker 8 If Nick, if Nick and I got a divorce and then he's like, yeah, I'm going to write a tell-all and she should be worried. And I text him being like, hey, quick question.

Speaker 8 Like, can you give me like a heads up?

Speaker 1 Like, read the book. It's $14.95.

Speaker 8 And he like sent me the Amazon link. That's crazy.
Crazy.

Speaker 1 But yeah, went on. Has he responded to the, I'm going to chop up your body and bury it over there actually.

Speaker 8 I haven't seen any response.

Speaker 8 I don't know how you let that one sit how are they not like dad chill the fuck out it just goes to show you fame no matter what age you are can completely reveal honestly all it really does is kind of reveal who you really are it's just like if you if you're the kind of person that makes jokes about chopping somebody up maybe don't go on the golden path that means you've thought about it right you're just like it's giving premeditation a hundred percent see that shed and chop up your body are like all the partners who've killed their spouses like they all joked about it once you know what i'm saying i i can imagine maybe like okay they saw a scary looking shed right okay so then he makes a joke like that's a good place to hide a body but to say you see that shed no that's where i would chop you up and hide your body no no i only listen to the finale once after she didn't do my laundry i'm just kidding perfect yeah no that makes sense see my my thing is like if you're walking with your sweetie pie and you see a remote shed you make the joke of like, oh, I bet if we had sex in there, someone might try to kill us.

Speaker 5 Like, that's dark humor in that situation, right?

Speaker 8 But you still love your partner kind of thing.

Speaker 5 But you still, like, you're still going to try to have sex.

Speaker 4 We die together. Yeah, we die together.

Speaker 4 Romantic, even.

Speaker 1 Did she say, like, when, like, what was the context in which he said it?

Speaker 8 We took a walk around this lake called Pretty Lake and we were coming to the end of it. And this is really bizarre.
He said, you see that shed up there? She began.

Speaker 8 I said, yeah. He said, well, that's where I'm going to hide your body after I kill you and chop you up.
I said, well, if this is his idea of a joke, that was pretty dark humor.

Speaker 8 I just feel like there was animosity in the statement that was underlying. Like, maybe if he could have gotten rid of me somehow, I don't know, he would have killed me.

Speaker 8 No, I don't think that was true. It's not true, but it just spoke to an underlying feeling about me.
So she said he wasn't laughing after he said it. That is so scary.

Speaker 5 You know what I mean?

Speaker 8 He didn't even say, I would. He said, I'm going to.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 The subtext in that statement is rough.

Speaker 4 Choice of words.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, the good news is your current Golden Bachelor, his only flaw is that he doesn't want to date anyone his age.

Speaker 8 So the finale of The Golden Bachelor is coming up. It was a two-parter.
The first one ended on a cliffhanger, and the second one is going to be on November 12th.

Speaker 4 Okay. I want to see my watch.

Speaker 7 I just want to see if Peg wins.

Speaker 8 It'll be two hours, and it will include the after-the-final rows, where Mel will sit down with either Peg or Cindy, whichever one one he picks do you think they have to pay

Speaker 8 people to be in the live audience for afr because no one cares i would go i would go no i would still go you would go

Speaker 1 yeah for sure oh yeah see gary needs to take a page out of orlando bloom's book if you're gonna break up with your partner and be a little petty maybe just like you know date someone who's gonna like troll your ex instead of like joking about chopping up their body and and burying them in a in a shed like did he put that in his book or is he just leaving leaving out all of the toxic things he did and said?

Speaker 5 I'm guessing he's leaving out all the toxic things he did or said if he's writing the book. I feel like he is perfect in his own eyes.

Speaker 1 If I went to a Halloween party

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 8 if I were to ever be caught dead at a Halloween party.

Speaker 1 And we broke up and my new girlfriend, what would be an outfit that would really piss you off if she dressed up to try to troll you?

Speaker 8 Probably just any outfit in general, you know, just because I don't have the capacity to think of anything. And if she did, I'd be like, oh my God, she's so much better than me.

Speaker 8 She thought of such a fun costume.

Speaker 1 So who's winning in this, in this

Speaker 1 little fight? Is it Katy Perry or Orlando Broom? Orlando Broome's new girlfriend, dressed up as Katy Perry, trolling her for

Speaker 1 her outer space visit.

Speaker 1 Very much leaning in

Speaker 1 to trolling Katy Perry. But is it giving, like, is Katy Perry winning this because Orlando Broom?

Speaker 1 Because Orlando Bloom can't get over Katy Perry and now she's dating the ex-Prime Minister of Canada?

Speaker 1 Or is Orlando winning because that was really silly what Katy Perry did when she came up with her?

Speaker 7 Well, and specifically, Orlando's now girlfriend dressed up in the spacesuit, kissing the ground. So she's a photo and posted it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so making fun of when Katie Perry landed and kissed the ground.

Speaker 8 And who is his new girlfriend? Rachel Lynn Matthews, actress.

Speaker 8 She is somebody.

Speaker 5 She was in happy death day.

Speaker 4 She was in the duel.

Speaker 7 I feel like it's this is a funny situation, but then I remember that they're co-parenting a a child. So like I think from their position, like seeing their parents,

Speaker 8 do you think Daisy?

Speaker 4 Oh, she brought hope

Speaker 8 that

Speaker 8 this was just a joke, like a lighthearted, fun little thing. And they kind of know about it.

Speaker 4 I don't find it like that.

Speaker 1 Do you think Katie Perry has a sense of humor like that?

Speaker 8 I hope so.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 she's down on her.

Speaker 8 Justin makes a good point of like, yeah, if Nick had a new girlfriend and she dressed up as me and like Nick wasn't like, hey, I don't know, this feels like a little

Speaker 8 of my daughter's mom. Maybe like, we shouldn't.
It definitely is like

Speaker 4 a little, it's a giving disrespect,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 5 It's also funny, though. I mean, it is funny, but Katy Perry in Space Kissing the Ground is an awesome Halloween.

Speaker 4 That's what I did.

Speaker 8 I also think Katy Perry will have like a set, would have a sense of humor about it. I'm like, her entire set is like dancing poop turds and toilets and whatnot.

Speaker 5 Famously irreverent Halloween.

Speaker 7 Katy Perry did release the song Band Aids this weekend. Have you seen it? It's like her first like breakup song post.

Speaker 7 Well, I guess maybe some of the other ones arguably could have been, but like this is post-Orlando. And people are saying that it's Katie's Comeback because it sounds like rolled music.

Speaker 4 Ooh.

Speaker 4 It's really good.

Speaker 8 Like it sounds like fireworks or just listen to it.

Speaker 7 It's giving like, yeah, like early Katy Perry, like when she was like mega viral, like Roar era.

Speaker 1 All right, well, before we get to Mandy Matney, who is the investigative journalist for the Murdock murders, we have some shows to cover, and we're going to do that next.

Speaker 1 We got some reunion part one of OC, some wife swap, and some Real Housewives of Potomac, and that is up next.

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Speaker 1 Well, the mornings are getting colder. Holiday plans are around the corner.

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Speaker 1 All right, it's time to break down some of our shows we were watching over the week, kicking off with Wife Swap,

Speaker 1 Housewife Style. What's the official title?

Speaker 7 Wife Swap the Real Housewives Edition.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 1 Once again, I'm into the show. We watched the Emily one.
Babe,

Speaker 1 what would you miss about me the most?

Speaker 8 I mean, I'm sure I'd be switched with like a man who does nothing, you know, kind of like Eric, the guy on Emily's episode, who just like come homes from work and he just like watches the wife do literally everything.

Speaker 8 And he says, oh, he, he literally said, I'm going to go hide.

Speaker 8 How brutal was that when I was making a sandwich and he just stood in the kitchen like, well, I feel like I would probably, I would definitely miss your cooking for sure.

Speaker 8 You cook every meal for us, you know, like I wouldn't survive. I would be eating Chick-fil-A.

Speaker 5 Like I would be like,

Speaker 4 it would be rough.

Speaker 1 What wouldn't you miss about me?

Speaker 8 Oh boy. Okay.
I didn't, you know, didn't prep for this

Speaker 4 questioning.

Speaker 4 Off the top of your head.

Speaker 8 What I wouldn't miss.

Speaker 8 This is like your chat GPT roast, Nick.

Speaker 4 Are you prepared for these responses?

Speaker 4 I'm always prepared.

Speaker 8 Oh, headphones. The second I see Nick and a pair of headphones, my blood pressure rises and I start to get hot and I am ready to fight.
Wait, what do you mean, headphones?

Speaker 8 Like, when is he wearing headphones outside of this studio? Exactly. Why is he wearing headphones around his family?

Speaker 4 That's a great question.

Speaker 8 Is he wearing headphones or earbuds and

Speaker 1 wired earbuds?

Speaker 8 What are you wearing them for? You want a phone call?

Speaker 1 Usually a podcast, a Packer podcast of some kind.

Speaker 8 What about when it's not football season?

Speaker 1 There's still Packers.

Speaker 4 There's always a packer podcast.

Speaker 5 So you're not putting your headphones on listening to your favorite song?

Speaker 1 I rarely listen to music.

Speaker 8 I don't really listen to music. Do you have a favorite song that...

Speaker 1 In Your Eyes by Peter Ray Gabriel is like definitely my favorite song. It just brings me back to childhood.

Speaker 1 What I do love about this show is that it really brings you inside the house of these married couples that have been married for a long time and are dealing with

Speaker 1 the grind of life. and marriage, you know?

Speaker 5 I think it humanizes the housewives a lot too.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 8 Because you get to see them in their natural like family environment and then in this kind of fish out of water situation that isn't just a lot of this intense drama you know what i took away from emily's episode is that her daughter annabelle is going to watch this back when she is in her 20s and she's going to be like i was such a bitch to my mom and i am so sorry like i have already i have apologized immensely to my mom for the awful things i said to her as a preteen and a teenager and like it's not on national television to watch back whenever I want, you know, like that's pretty mortifying.

Speaker 8 That's pretty mortifying. I'm so glad that I was not on camera when I was a teenager.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 8 And again, if my mom's listening, I am so sorry.

Speaker 1 Another thing with the Emily episode,

Speaker 1 I know the husband was kind of like not helpful at all, but it was also on the flip side. I thought it was wild that his wife would never like say hi to him, greet him.

Speaker 8 No, they when she left to go to Orange County and she kissed all the kids and just like turned around,

Speaker 8 I was like, well, that y'all are

Speaker 1 again, I, you know, you should be fathers out there, husbands, you need to be present. You need to like, you know, help your wife out.

Speaker 1 But I will say for the ladies out there, you know how like a lot of guys, like the likable ones, you're like, oh, he's giving golden retriever energy.

Speaker 1 Like really all men on some level are no more complicated than dogs. And they all on some level have a little bit of golden retriever, even the introverted ones in them.

Speaker 8 And honestly, golden doodle in Nick's case.

Speaker 1 Golden doodle. But like, honestly, a pat on the back or an at a boy or like a little appreciation goes a long way with the boys.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 And like this, this family, this family dynamic where like he wasn't helpful at all, but she was basically like ignored his existence is like such a like common theme in marriages and so like easily fixed.

Speaker 1 And I can, I see, but like, you know, if you're a guy, it's just like, you don't, if you're not, if you're not acknowledged or like appreciated, and I, and I think a lot of, and a lot of couples, like both parties feel like they have their version of feeling underappreciated, but it was fascinating to see that dynamic where she just like, it's like she just stopped acknowledging him.

Speaker 1 Like he didn't exist. It was crazy.

Speaker 8 That's what I saw too, where it was kind of like when each person feels like they're doing the most in the relationship and they're not being acknowledged by the other.

Speaker 8 It's kind of crazy how quickly a wall builds up between two people because it's almost competing for like, I work harder and i'm not acknowledged for that where it's like he's keeping a roof over the head she she's keeping your kids alive happy and fed so it's like two people need to like take a step back and acknowledge the fact that it's like one thing can't exist without the other no the fact that she sat there and told shane like yeah he doesn't think like me being a stay-at-home mom is like a job or does any benefits or like does anything and thank god shane is like it is more

Speaker 8 important than whatever he does, you know, it's like, or just as important, whatever. It's like she is taking care of all three of these kids.
This woman clearly never leaves this house.

Speaker 8 She's like, Yeah, my me time is going to the barn and taking care of these animals and like wipes his ass, does everything for this man.

Speaker 8 And like, I think, yeah, if it's both reciprocated, where if he were to come home and be like, Hey, thanks so much for like everything you did for the kids today.

Speaker 8 And if she's like, you know what, thank you so much for going to work and working hard for us. Like it would be such a happier place.

Speaker 4 Oh my God, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 Just those little things in a relationship can go such a long way because it, then that's a thing. It's just like your day-to-day, like, you know, going to work.

Speaker 1 You know, eventually you're just like, well, you go to work. Or like, oh, well, you take care of the kids.
You just take it for granted.

Speaker 1 You just like, it's, it's one of those things that you just, you just get so used to it and you stop thinking your partner, thanking your partner for the day-to-day grind.

Speaker 1 that is like their responsibility or their part and like what you're creating and just like a

Speaker 1 hey thanks You know, I really appreciate you today. It's just like, it's crazy how far that will go in relationships and how quickly that is lost.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's one thing I've really like enjoyed about this show is that it peels back some of those layers and some of these like very relatable relationships.

Speaker 8 Yeah, well, because then resentment starts to creep in. And that's like a very real thing.
If you're not communicating or talking about like, well, what is it that you're doing every day?

Speaker 8 Like, how was your day? What did you like?

Speaker 8 Then you don't think about like how how hard the other person's working and if you're not thanking each other or acknowledging it then like you just start resenting each other and it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse until like you just stop talking altogether and we all like need little things you know like that's what when you start off in a relationship it just like comes naturally and then slowly when you're like with somebody for a long period of time you can forget things where you see that she the way her face lit up when shane suggested that we're going out to dinner and she's like i haven't gone out to dinner and i don't know how long or emily's suggesting doing the fly fishing where it's just like, sometimes you also have to take a step back and be like, what does my partner need?

Speaker 8 And maybe even if it's something I would rather die than do, do it one time.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Show up for each other. I thought that was really cool little.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 And it is hard. I mean, if you reflect on yourself in these situations, it's like, it's hard.
Like yesterday, Danny filmed a music video. And I was with Louie all day.

Speaker 8 And then like he walked in the door and I didn't even ask him how his video went.

Speaker 8 Like, and I, and I realized that like an hour later and I was like, oh my God, like we didn't even, you know, like all, he walked in. I'm like, okay, change his diaper, like, dude,

Speaker 8 you know, we just went on with life and I didn't even ask him how his day was at all.

Speaker 5 Like, well, it's like, I think it's, it's, what's interesting about wipeswap is it shows you that it's like, you don't really need to be doing like a big, like, say anything, like John Cusack holding a boom box over his head, playing in your eyes, like to like connect with your partner.

Speaker 5 You can just like talk to them.

Speaker 8 It's a great song. I love that song.

Speaker 5 Isn't it such a good song? Good callback. Do you guys like that song? Yeah.

Speaker 4 Does it bring you back? It does bring me back.

Speaker 8 Well, you know what else can bring you back? It is the rapid recaps. And we got one for the Real Housewives of Orange County Reunion, Part One.

Speaker 8 Shannon is feeling Zen, and therefore we propose a drinking game. Drink every time Shannon is not Zen.
Katie wants to make up for lost time. Tamara promises she won't quit.

Speaker 8 Andy is also like, thought you would have been nicer this season considering you were in therapy. Tamara is like, I don't understand what you could possibly mean.

Speaker 8 Followed by montage of her being the demon we know and love. Heather and Tamra are historical friends, which means four score and seven years ago, they did drugs together or something, probably.

Speaker 8 I don't know. Emily thinks Katie uses podcasters to fight her battles for her and were willing to be on the front lines, allegedly.

Speaker 8 Gina is not in the business of triggering trauma, but she is in the business of overusing therapy buzzwords.

Speaker 8 Meanwhile, Gretchen is getting ready in the makeup room, looking like Martha Mae Juvier in a regional production of Wicked.

Speaker 8 Then the women open up about their individual personal lives, blah, blah, blah. Finally, Gretchen enters, let's fucking go.
Slade is apparently on the Liberace Foundation.

Speaker 8 Ally, also, his penis is healing. Greater sign three, that makes a heart.
Her and Tamra start fighting about stuff from 10 years ago. Tamra claims she's coming home.

Speaker 8 She's coming from a place of kindness to be determined if the kindness is in the room with us. And that's about it.
Overall, what do we think about Andy's longer hair? He's kind of eating, no?

Speaker 8 We literally said that.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now he's like, his hair looks great. And I was like, I wish this thing is hair looks great, too.

Speaker 4 His hair looks so good.

Speaker 1 We're synced. Andy, Andy looked really good this episode.
Performance and just aesthetic.

Speaker 8 Why wasn't Gretchen out the whole time?

Speaker 4 Friend of.

Speaker 5 That's crazy that she was a friend of. She was filming at home with Slade.

Speaker 1 Well, she's a friend of?

Speaker 4 She's not holding a pea

Speaker 4 an orange?

Speaker 4 Oh, that's her friend of.

Speaker 8 They haven't redone that orange photo in since season three, it feels like.

Speaker 1 Slade being on the Liberace Foundation.

Speaker 4 I feel like it's made up.

Speaker 8 The internet internetted, and they found that he is a volunteer on the board, so he's an unpaid member, so it's not a job.

Speaker 5 Wait, so he never mind.

Speaker 8 Even still, how did he how is this board she she explained it his their friend is on the board and he i guess asked him to join how could gretchen like those posts if slade is on the link

Speaker 1 the uh slade's like a real life kramer you know it's just like on seinfeld where like they they never really have a job they kind of float you know they always seem to land on their feet somehow they have they don't have a care in the world i just don't know i'm fascinated by these humans

Speaker 5 yeah i gotta be honest kind of underwhelmed by the Katie stuff they talked about in part one. I was just like, where's the excitement?

Speaker 1 Well, all of it was really set up for what, like, I think is going to be an explosive part three.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I know.

Speaker 8 I'm just like, but the, the, the venom that Tamara has every time Shannon opens her mouth.

Speaker 4 She was like,

Speaker 4 it was wild.

Speaker 1 I was 100% team Shannon this episode. It merely made me love her.
Like,

Speaker 1 Shannon, an imperfect person, as we all are, but she's so charming and so like just lovable. And like what Shannon is not is she's not that calculated, you know?

Speaker 5 And when no, she is not.

Speaker 1 So this idea that like Tammer was throwing her way that like Shannon, you know, tried to get her off the show.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like I 100% believe Shannon.

Speaker 8 Also watching it in real time, Andy being like, why do you pull stories from the past to try to hurt people just like when have I done that? When have I done that?

Speaker 8 Well, you literally were recording Vicki and it was about her. But what like, and he's like, you just dropped two right now.
It's like, and she's like, it was two years ago.

Speaker 8 And he's like, that is the point.

Speaker 1 No, she literally insinuated that Vicki Gunlsen was part of a potential domestic situation.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 And it's like so damaging that like. Tamara, the hypocrisy that Tamra can just, and she just doesn't see it.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Do we really think she doesn't see it?

Speaker 8 I don't think when Andy said that and she responded with the way that she did, I don't think she in any way thought she was proving his point.

Speaker 5 It kind of reminds me of like, you know, sometimes when you, I don't know if this is, this has happened to me, of like when you're kind of in like spiral mode and you don't realize how much you're talking about something until your friends like shake you in your shoulders and they're like, shut up about it.

Speaker 5 Yes, all the time.

Speaker 8 Yeah. She literally doesn't think that she says anything wrong about people.
And then she goes on like a two minute tirade about like how they're fucked up. And then it's like, when did I do that?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 sorry, I was mad. Yeah, that sorry, I was mad.
I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not responsible for what I said when I was angry at you and throwing all of your secrets out to the public.

Speaker 5 And that only works when it's coming from Angie Katzanevas.

Speaker 1 Do you literally save like who? Because we've hung out with Tamra.

Speaker 4 Well, you've hung out with Tamra.

Speaker 1 We had Tamara on the show. We spent some time with Shannon.

Speaker 1 When I watch this show, it's like, I don't feel particularly safe if potentially hanging around Tamra, but I really enjoyed Tamara's company in real life.

Speaker 8 That's what's confusing about it is that like, yeah, she, she is a lovely human being in person.

Speaker 8 And maybe at the end of the day, no, I was about to say, maybe that's all that matters, but like, no, because she gets on this show and she spews people's rumors and stories and past and like in a dangerous way and in a reckless way.

Speaker 8 And like, you know, she, you know, she makes great television. I think she, you know, is entertaining to watch.
But when you really break it down, like, she is not a good friend.

Speaker 8 I would not trust her with anything.

Speaker 1 And and like yeah and also don't get Tamara like getting so defensive when all the women were like Tamara's the one I would least trust it's like well there's they have their reasons and like Tamara's mad at them for justifiable reasons Well, she actually handled that quite well when Heather was like, this is why.

Speaker 8 And she was like, okay, I'll work on that.

Speaker 1 Like, I, you know, well, there she handled it well.

Speaker 5 Well, it's like, she'll do it with Heather. Yeah.
Kind of. And then no one else.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but she's like, to Emily, she's like, how dare you? How could you do this? Or like, how could you think this way?

Speaker 1 It's just like, I think this way because you have a history and a pattern of doing it. Like,

Speaker 1 the fact that Tamara is expecting these women to apologize for feeling a certain way about Tamra's behavior is crazy.

Speaker 1 It's like if your partner lies to you and then you say, well, listen, I think you're a liar. And then that person's like.
deeply offended that you think they're a liar after catching them in a lie.

Speaker 5 Well, it's also like, it was so funny to watch Andy be like,

Speaker 5 crazy that you were in therapy. Do you think you changed? And Tamara being like, you think I haven't? And Andy kind of being like, um,

Speaker 5 no.

Speaker 5 Like, it's just, again, everyone has their own mental health journey. Like not.

Speaker 5 Tamara off the show seems like a different person than Tamara on the show, but Tamara on the show,

Speaker 5 girly pop.

Speaker 8 Well, what's wild too is I was on TikTok over the weekend and I came across Vicki Gumbelson's video that she posted meeting up with Tamara to do a sponsored ad together.

Speaker 8 First time that they've seen each other in years. And it was just like her walking in being like, hey, like cutie bud or something like that.
And then they just like acted like nothing happened.

Speaker 8 They played back in the reunion. Tamara being like, that woman will never be in my life again.

Speaker 8 The internet's watching Tamra's behavior and Tamara's hanging out with Vicki Gumbelson again.

Speaker 8 She's hanging out with Joe, Slade's ex, who's on season one of OC, Katie Janella, and there's one more that I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's like they're saying that like Tamra's trying to get the old troops back for the next season.

Speaker 5 What's also with the Joe thing, like, even like, I'm not one to defend Gretchen, but when Gretchen was like, yeah, you brought Joe out to piss me off, and Tamara was like, no, I didn't.

Speaker 5 It's like, that of all things, just be like, yeah, I did.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Of the last two petty years

Speaker 8 to it, because we haven't seen Joe for two decades. Exactly.
All I know is that one thing for a fact: that if somebody tells you that your outfit resembles John Benet Ramsey, it is not a compliment.

Speaker 4 Not a compliment. Yeah.
Nope.

Speaker 8 That was a wild thing to repeat yet again.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 No, and Gretchen being like, yeah, you said that about my other outfit. It's like, yeah, I've heard it before.
Come up with a new one.

Speaker 5 And then was it Emily who said, when I said you looked like you were dipped in formaldehyde, like that was a compliment.

Speaker 8 The backtracking, I will say, for these Orange County housewives is wild.

Speaker 4 They say it with so much.

Speaker 7 Formaldehyde is a compliment, though. I do see that one.

Speaker 4 I want to look like I was dipped dipped in formaldehyde.

Speaker 1 As someone who has a unique way of saying things sometimes, and as someone who can be direct, I've had to learn that if you have to explain your compliment, it's not a compliment.

Speaker 1 It's not a compliment.

Speaker 5 I mean, I did one time tell a girl I had a crush on she was giving desperate housewives, and then I had to explain that that was a compliment when I was really drunk.

Speaker 1 You might mean it as a compliment, but it's still not. And just to be like, But no, like, let me explain it to you.
And here's why you're supposed to be flattered. It's like just.

Speaker 8 Well, well, speaking of giving out compliments that aren't landed as compliments, we have the real housewives of Potomac.

Speaker 8 And here is your rapid recap. If you missed the most recent episode, Giselle spills all the monogram shots she had made for the ladies.
Stacy says nothing, of course, but still she drinks.

Speaker 8 Ashley Darby took one out of Stacy's book and texted it as selfie to her man's. Giselle also didn't monogram Stacy's towel for the yacht.
Kind of getting old girly.

Speaker 8 If you didn't care about her, you wouldn't be so annoying about it. Wendy thinks Kay is fake as fuck.
Giselle and Kay get over some stuff, maybe. Then the girls booty bump in the gorgeous ocean.

Speaker 8 Thus is the life of women. Stacey can't go to Jazzy's wedding because her weed brand is launching.
Giselle says it's because she's a fake friend. Then Tia says Jazzy filters her photos.

Speaker 8 Jazzy goes nuclear. Wendy just wants someone to pass the prosciutto.

Speaker 8 After dinner, while cameras are down, there was apparently a really intense conversation with Angel and Jazzy where the descriptors, snaggle-tooth, stringy-haired, are used about someone.

Speaker 8 Question mark, question mark. Anyway, let's put a pin in that because it's slut night for Jazzy's Bachelorette.

Speaker 8 Someone called Rachel Maddow and the stripper with braces, or maybe just Ashley Darby didn't realize she was a bikon. Is anyone else a little turned on or just Mary? Anyway, let's move on.
That

Speaker 4 mental pic for sure.

Speaker 8 Back to the off-camera convo between Jazzy and Angel. Apparently, another wag talked shit on Angel to Jazzy and said some intense things about her.
Did Angel mention she was a wag?

Speaker 8 Reminder, in case anyone forgot, but they're cool. They talked it through or not.
Angel might be mad at Jazzy for bringing it up. Overall, is Angel's vibe super confusing to anyone else? Discuss.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Yeah.
Again, she's the Britney Bateman. What about me? It's like always like, oh, no, we're cool.
We're cool. And then like, whoa, wait, I'm still mad.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 If I'm going to storm out, especially to call my husband, like, I'm going to my room. I'm not like waiting for the 10 steps out for anybody that wants to chase me.

Speaker 8 So I could tell you, I'm on the phone with my husband. I don't want to talk right now.

Speaker 4 Then go to your room. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Which is like, don't say that you're cool and then be like, yeah, when I was like laughing and having fun, the reason I was being cool was because I was really mad.

Speaker 5 Like it just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 8 Yeah. And she, that's, this is the second time she's done it.
The last time with Giselle and like the catfish and then they hug and it was like a whole big cute thing.

Speaker 8 And then the next morning, she's like, I slept on it and I'm still pissed. Yep.
It's like, you can hold a grudge, girl. Like, you got to just let it go.
I'm like, also, we're like having a fun night.

Speaker 8 So I'm like, you can't put this aside for the next taping day tomorrow after we get back. It's like every night she's ruining with her vibe.

Speaker 5 Well, it's also like Jazzy did come to her while cameras were down to tell her about this. It's not even like she like brought it up to embarrass her in front of the group.

Speaker 5 They had like a separate conversation about it. It just ended up being teased.

Speaker 8 And that's what everybody was like giving Jazzy credit for, which I also thought it is.

Speaker 5 Which Angel gave Jazzy credit for.

Speaker 8 I mean, after the performance at dinner against Tia, it very much felt like Jazzy wanted, if not camera time, then then definitely wanted to be a main housewife.

Speaker 8 I mean, her like freaking out over Tia being like, oh, yeah, Mr. Sunshine is like fond of you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, question for you, ladies.

Speaker 8 15 days before my wedding.

Speaker 4 Yeah, if like

Speaker 1 Sierra, Leia, question. If one of your lady friends told you that like a waiter was checking you out, would you feel like that person was disrespecting Connor or Danny?

Speaker 8 No, no.

Speaker 4 Like, I don't know. Be like, oh, cool.
Right?

Speaker 4 For me? Yeah, really?

Speaker 1 She made it seem like if someone checks you out, that you're having an affair.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you can't be flattered by like slaying your out, you know, your outfit just like crushing life and looking good.

Speaker 8 And like, if she felt disrespected, the only person she should have just felt disrespected by was Mr. Sunshine himself, who's like, you're my favorite.
Stand by me in this photo.

Speaker 8 Like, then she could have been like, okay, that's enough. Like, I'm getting married in 14 days.
Get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 8 But she's like entertaining it she's having fun she's like you know whatever it's mr sunshine as kay said like he's got two teeth and two dreads like we're not he's not competition we're not worried about him it's not that big of a deal it's also slut night it was slut night yeah what's a what's mr sunshine supposed to do when it's slut night What outfit would you like to see men argue in that would make it even sillier?

Speaker 1 Because like when they're all wearing lingerie screaming at each other,

Speaker 1 it's like a, it really throws you off it's their pump rules i was gonna say

Speaker 4 i want tomorrow's yeah ice queen drag no in the drag when

Speaker 4 dark

Speaker 8 on the toilet and tom sandoval's got his wig off and his drawn-on eyebrows on his forehead kicking open the door yeah either that or like full 21 drum street like suns out guns out 2013 outfits honestly secret lives and mormon wives did a good job too with the chippendales fight like be more ridiculous honestly anything watching men argue is funny yeah any costume Halloween costume yeah they should make a men in reality TV argue with a t-shirt and underwear and socks on

Speaker 7 why

Speaker 8 because they look silly or like bathrobes Nick I actually have a question for you um somebody asked me they said you know Nick hates when men wear shorts Well, what are men supposed to wear in the summer when it's hot?

Speaker 4 Pants.

Speaker 8 Just be hot in pants. Linen pants.

Speaker 1 Well, again, there's a time and a place, but if you're like going out in public to a nice event or like dinner at a restaurant, like it, it should, there must, there should be a heat advisory if you're wearing shorts.

Speaker 1 Like an airplane or like a restaurant, it's unnecessary.

Speaker 5 I think there's a Curb episode about that, actually, where Larry David sits next to a man in shorts on an airplane.

Speaker 7 Yeah, shorts and an airplane's unhinged.

Speaker 1 I am Larry David.

Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

Speaker 8 Well, continuing with shows we are recapping, we have Mandy Matney, the investigative reporter, joining us next to talk about the Murdoch Death in the family. Let's get to Mandy.

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Speaker 1 Mandy, Matney, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Speaker 10 Hey, guys, I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 1 Doing very well. Very excited for you to join us.
We have been following this case for, well, a long time. I don't know when, when did the murders happen?

Speaker 10 May 21.

Speaker 1 2021. Well, Nally is a bit of a true crime junkie.
She loves to follow these cases in the background and bring me up to speed. So we've definitely been following it.
We follow the trial.

Speaker 1 And then obviously with the new show on Hulu Out, we are all caught up. We're watching it.
I have some questions to you about that, about the show itself.

Speaker 1 But you have been following this case from the beginning, so much so that your character is being, you are, you, you are in the show as you, an investigative journalist covering the show.

Speaker 1 So like, I guess what, let's start there. This must be just a whole very surreal experience for you leading up to being portrayed on a TV show about this crime.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it's insane. I like to say my life has been like a movie since 2019, since I first found out about this, and it's just gotten weirder ever since.

Speaker 10 And then to have Britney Snow playing me, like, of all people, what a compliment. I'm just in awe, can't believe it.
It's just been surreal and awesome.

Speaker 1 So bring us back to the beginning. When did you personally become really invested in this whole family and its story?

Speaker 10 Yeah. So in 2019, I was just a pesky local news reporter

Speaker 10 at a small newspaper in Hilton Head, South Carolina. And there was something that everybody knows as the boat crash that happened under my watch on a Saturday night.

Speaker 10 I remember waking up one morning on a Sunday and hearing all these things about a 19-year-old girl missing. And the driver of the boat was a drunken teenager from a family full of powerful lawyers.

Speaker 10 And I was really, really into true crime, not going to lie, before that. And I was always kind of like, I always wanted to have a podcast about something.

Speaker 10 And then when that happened, and I started hearing all these rumors about the Murdochs and how much power that they had and people on basically the from day one, people were like, if you guys don't cover this, they will cover it up.

Speaker 10 So me and my reporting partner, Liz, just dug in and could not stop.

Speaker 8 Did they ever threaten you, you know, being the one person who was like outing their secrets?

Speaker 10 The family never threatened me personally, but people that knew them did. And

Speaker 10 it more

Speaker 10 less than threats. It was a lot of just like

Speaker 10 people from the very beginning when I first started writing about Paul Murdoch and his father and all the power and money that they had.

Speaker 10 And it took a really long time for Paul to get charged in the boat crash, too. So I was just cranking out all these stories.

Speaker 10 During that time, I started getting just a lot of weird emails from people from Hampton, which is the area that the Murdochs are from, saying,

Speaker 10 Nobody talks about this family like this. Nobody reports on this family the way that you are.
Be careful, like watch your back. And for years, I just got a lot of be careful, watch your back.

Speaker 10 These people are dangerous, but not necessarily like direct threats from them saying we'll kill you.

Speaker 8 And I guess, why didn't that stop you? Were you just headstrong?

Speaker 10 So, I'm not from the South, and I think that that's helped me a lot. Like, I am from Kansas, and my best friend and reporting partner, Liz, who's with me at the packet, she's from Boston.

Speaker 10 So, we both just kind of had an outsider's perspective on this whole thing. And we're kind of just like, why? Like, why don't you guys stand up to this system?

Speaker 10 And people kept telling telling us over and over, like, nothing ever changes here. And we were just like, Well, why can't it? I think it should.
This is really bad. What's going on here?

Speaker 10 And I think that, and then the combination of just like, I met a lot of people in Hampton and got close with them. And they were just like, if you don't stop this, nobody else will.

Speaker 10 If you don't stop this family, nobody will.

Speaker 8 And all of that just kind of motivated me.

Speaker 1 What's so fascinating about your involvement in this story is that you were investigating this family before the crime that really like went international right like you were investing already a tragedy with the with the death of this young girl and this boating accident and looking into it then only to have alec allegedly murder his wife and son i i that must have been like a crazy i don't know when you found out that those murders happened but when you got the call that alec was being investigated or i you know bring us back into that night when you got the call and you found out these murders happened.

Speaker 1 What, what was that like for you? And did you immediately suspect Alec?

Speaker 10 So, okay, so

Speaker 10 going back to 2019 and I just kind of became obsessed with this case in the Murdoch family.

Speaker 10 I was dating my now husband at the time, and I'll never forget one day I come home and he has, you know, those like murder board, I call them murder boards, but like just a bit, he surprised me with a big board that I could put pins and like stick things on and like map out the whole Murdoch family and all of that.

Speaker 10 So, like, this is what I was doing in my spare time, all the time. And then my husband got involved in it because he was like, This is all you ever want to talk about.
I'm interested in it too.

Speaker 10 So, yeah, it was just a lot of time spending investigating this family. And again, a lot of emails saying, Be careful, these people are dangerous.

Speaker 10 So those things combined, I imagined like a million different scenarios of this going down in my head. I always knew that something bad, something more bad was going to happen with this story.

Speaker 10 Like, you know, like you just see all of these people behaving so recklessly and no accountability.

Speaker 10 And I just always kind of knew that something else was going to happen. But I always thought like, I mean, because of all the emails I got, like, I thought I would be the dead one.

Speaker 10 I thought lots of other people besides Paul and Maggie would be the dead ones. And waking up on June 8th, 2021, weirdly enough,

Speaker 10 my now husband and I were just celebrating our engagement in Puerto Rico. And

Speaker 10 I woke up to a hundred text messages saying Maggie and Paul were murdered at Moselle last night. Get home now.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 just could have, again, had thought of a million scenarios of that happening, but immediately,

Speaker 10 immediately knew that it had to be somebody within the family because I knew how terrified the vast majority of people were of this family.

Speaker 10 And I was like, nobody's going to Moselle to kill the Murdoch on their property with their guns. That's not happening.
And Alex was always super sketchy. So he was definitely a number one suspect.

Speaker 1 Law enforcement, were they immediately aware of your involvement? And did they go to you at any point while they were investigating Alec for the murders?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 10 I can't really say specifically. I still can't reveal my sources.

Speaker 8 And obviously.

Speaker 10 But yeah, very early on, law enforcement got in contact with me right after the murders.

Speaker 10 And it really became an exchange of information for a long time.

Speaker 10 We would get tips and I would tell law enforcement before I would report on a lot of things because like I wanted these murders to be solved. Like I,

Speaker 10 like when this happened, I was like, this is really scary and somebody's out there. Like, let's, let's get this done.
I wanted to work with police.

Speaker 10 I didn't, my reporting always like took back, took the back seat, you know?

Speaker 10 I wanted.

Speaker 10 everything to be solved and I wanted the investigation to be clean and all of those things.

Speaker 10 So yeah, I worked a lot with law enforcement and a lot of times they would tell me things that I could not not report on for a really long time and that was very difficult but i really appreciated the fact that they were always open to you know basically collaborating on tips and things and figuring out what was going on in your opinion knowing this family for so long what's your opinion on his motive I just think he is a man who never faced accountability in his entire life.

Speaker 10 And he never,

Speaker 10 he was always used to his father, who who was the solicitor for years and years, just getting him out of anything that he got into his entire life.

Speaker 10 And in June 2021, his father was dying. So

Speaker 10 his fixer was dying.

Speaker 10 And his problems just kept escalating. The problems from

Speaker 10 Paul Murdoch and the boat, Paul, his son, and the boat crash and the lawsuit and problems with the millions of dollars that he was stealing and could not give back and could never, could not keep up anymore um

Speaker 10 and i just think i also think that like murder is never something that anybody really understands i mean do you do you guys

Speaker 10 i i think that like the motive is basically

Speaker 10 he was trying he had too many problems and was looking around and he thought he could get sympathy from the and it's horrible the murder of his wife and son but and a lot of people say that's crazy, but like most murder motives are crazy.

Speaker 10 Does it make sense to you guys?

Speaker 8 I mean, it definitely doesn't make sense, obviously, because it's like husband and father, but like I 100% believe he did it. You know, it was, I remember like watching the trial live.

Speaker 8 Were you, did you watch it live or did you, were you there in court?

Speaker 10 I actually watched it live.

Speaker 10 I could, I was like one of the journalists selected to be able to go, but I could watch better from, I've been to a million court hearings in my career and I can never hear what's going on.

Speaker 10 I have ADHD, so I have to like really focus on what's happening in front of me. So it was just me and my laptop and my husband watching the trial.

Speaker 10 We had like a trailer outside of.

Speaker 10 the trial and I would go there sometimes and watch it and like and talk to the people who were being like some like Mark Tensley would be a question on the stand and then he would come to our trailer to talk afterwards, things like that.

Speaker 8 I thought it was interesting and I'd love your opinion on during the trial, they made it very clear that Alex's use of

Speaker 8 calling his son Paw Paul was something that like wasn't normal. That like he just started doing that for the trial.
That that was never really what they called him.

Speaker 8 No one had heard him refer to Paul as that. But then in the series, it kind of showed a different version.
What like, what was your opinion of watching the show back and then having watched the trial?

Speaker 10 I mean, crazy. Like, I also heard from sources that he never called him Papa, but it also makes Alex look like more ridiculous on the show when he calls him Papa because he's like a grown kid.

Speaker 10 Like, it's a 21-year-old he's talking to, not like a baby. And the way that he says Papa, it just makes him look some more ridiculous.
So, I liked that they added that. Like,

Speaker 10 I thought it gave it more, I don't, I don't know, it built Alex's character more.

Speaker 1 Overall, do you feel like this series is accurately portraying the events of this family and its crimes?

Speaker 10 Oh, absolutely. So I am an executive producer.
So like, I can't, I am obviously biased. I think it's a great show

Speaker 4 because I was a part of it.

Speaker 10 But I, I absolutely believe that it was, it's accurate.

Speaker 10 I mean, in a lot of the decisions that the creators made um like for instance the housekeeper gloria satterfield's death is changed in the timeline of the show um when i was on set and when i was just kind of getting bits and pieces of what they were doing with the show i was like why would they change gloria's death that's like a big event that's a big deal this doesn't make any sense i'm a journalist i'm used to sticking to the facts i was kind of but i was like oh i i trust the people who i'm working with so i'm just gonna take a a step back and then I watched the show and I completely understood why those decisions were made you got to see more of Gloria's character and who she was as a person and that was extremely important and so every decision that wasn't like necessarily true to character it made sense for the show can you remind our audience like the role Gloria played in the speculation around her death?

Speaker 1 Because if I remember correctly, wasn't there speculation that maybe even Alec or someone in the the family was, like even that was kind of under kind of dark pretenses?

Speaker 1 And there was speculation around insurance and things like that.

Speaker 1 Because it was portrayed that he obviously like stole the money from her children after he sued, like he had them sue him or something to that effect.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Okay, this is a complicated story. So we're going to go back to 2019.

Speaker 10 When I'm first investigating the Murdoch family, and I hear I'm not only investigating Mallory's death, but all these people in Hampton are like, did you hear about the maid too?

Speaker 10 You have to investigate the maid. And the rumor was that either Paul Murdoch or Alex Murdoch, it was kind of interchangeable of who you were talking to, pushed her down the stairs.

Speaker 10 And when I first heard that, I was like, no way, that sounds just insane. Whatever, grain of salt.

Speaker 10 And then I was looking through records one day and I see, and I was just at the time, like I said, I was obsessive.

Speaker 10 So just trying to find anything in public records to lead me to more information about this family. And

Speaker 10 up pops a death settlement for a woman named Gloria Satterfield. And Alex Murdoch's insurance company paid her $500,000, paid her family $500,000 according to this death settlement.

Speaker 10 And she died a year before the boat crash in 2018. And then I go online and I figure out that she was the maid.
And I'm like, oh, whoa, I think this is the maid that they're talking about.

Speaker 10 This is pretty crazy. And then I take another look at the settlement document and I just see all of this weird stuff happening.

Speaker 10 Alex best friend, Corey Fleming, is representing the housekeeper's family and he sued Alex Murdoch's insurance company. And it wasn't like most other lawsuits that I've seen where it's like,

Speaker 10 they basically said one sentence. She died at Alex Murdoch's house.
And then the insurance company was like, okay, cool. We'll give you $500,000 for that.
So that was weird.

Speaker 10 And then the other main thing that I saw,

Speaker 10 they had a personal representative over the Satterfield family. So to receive the money.

Speaker 10 And I was like, huh, so it looks like Gloria's family isn't getting the money, somebody else is, and he's from a bank. So I was investigating that for like two years.

Speaker 10 And it all didn't come out until after the murders.

Speaker 10 Um, with my, he's now my Cup of Justice podcast co-host, Eric Bland.

Speaker 10 He was, he's, is still an attorney and was an attorney back then. He found that

Speaker 10 not only did Alex steal that $500,000 from the Satterfield family, who needed it very much, but he stole $3.2 million

Speaker 10 in total.

Speaker 10 The entire settlement was $3.2 million.

Speaker 10 So that kind of led to everybody being like, oh, Alex was stealing from clients. And then it turned into, I think he stole a total of $10 to $15 million from clients.

Speaker 10 But the Satterfield family, the craziest part about it is that I really believe, and I've met Tony and Brian, glorious sons, before, and I've totally believe that like, if he would have just given them $10,000 or $5,000, that would have been life-changing for them, but he wouldn't give a dollar to them.

Speaker 10 And that was really the reason why he got exposed for all of his crimes.

Speaker 8 It's crazy. Has that family received anything since he's been found guilty?

Speaker 10 Not from him. So Eric Bland, the Satterfield family attorney, has actually given them

Speaker 10 recovered $10 million for them from various people who were involved in this settlement, like the insurance companies, the banks, et cetera, that should have stopped it.

Speaker 10 There were lots of ways to stop this settlement from happening and to stop it from going directly into Alex's pockets.

Speaker 10 But the funny part of that is that, like, Alex himself never had to give a dime to them. And I kind of hate that.

Speaker 1 Another, I guess, story that's portrayed in the series is the speculation that Buster was involved in, the son, and the death of a young man that it was unclear that he knew, or maybe people thought he knew, this young man who died, it was like a hit and run, right?

Speaker 1 And he had like a secret friend. He called him the prince.
The series all but kind of shows the speculation, but ultimately makes you believe that Buster was not involved in this young man's death.

Speaker 1 What do you believe happened? And do you feel like that part was accurately portrayed?

Speaker 10 Okay, so Stephen Smith, that's another one. We'll go back to 2019.
And like the first week I'm investigating the Murdoch family, I'm looking on Facebook, and this is in the show too. And that's a

Speaker 10 that really happened.

Speaker 10 While I'm looking on Facebook about all these things about the Murdoch family, I keep seeing the this hashtag for justice for Stephen and Mallory, Stephen and Mallory, Stephen and Mallory.

Speaker 10 And I'm like, who's Stephen? What is going on? There's a maid, there's Stephen, what is going on at this family? And so I start digging in and I got a case file a few months later.

Speaker 10 And that was before I was like, there was, I knew of any transcription services. So I had to like listen to every single one of the interviews in the case file and actually type it out.

Speaker 10 And that took forever. But I.
I typed everything out, timelined it, mapped out the entire investigation.

Speaker 10 And the Murdoch name came up in this case 40 times, over 40 times in the investigation, something crazy like that.

Speaker 10 And, but what happened, Stephen Smith was a gay nursing student in Hampton, South Carolina, 19. He did go to school with Buster.
I think they were on a t-ball team together growing up.

Speaker 10 They kind of knew each other, but like didn't really hang out with the same friends. He was found dead in the middle of the road in the small town of Hampton County in July of 2015.

Speaker 10 And it was just really weird. I started looking into this death and I'm like, there's like three, maybe four

Speaker 10 stories in total about this kid's death. And they labeled it a hit and run.

Speaker 10 And then you look at the case file and in the case file, the entire, everyone who's investigating it from the Highway Patrol is like, I don't see a single sign that this is a hit and run.

Speaker 10 This looks like a murder to me. I don't understand why we're investigating it.
But the weirdest part of it was like the Murdoch name just kept coming up in different ways. And

Speaker 10 people,

Speaker 10 several friends of friends and friends of Buster said, I heard that Buster and Stephen were in a relationship and they had something to do with it.

Speaker 10 I think ultimately the worst part of this entire story is that We do not know what happened to Stephen Smith. And I've gotten really close with his mother, Sandy.
That is so true.

Speaker 10 The woman, Rhoda, who plays her, is fantastic, and she like embodies Sandy's essence and how great of a woman she is.

Speaker 10 She still doesn't know what happened to her son, and I feel horrible

Speaker 10 that she has been swept up in all of this. And then in 2021, and I know that this is a lot, so please pause me.

Speaker 10 In 2021,

Speaker 10 right after the Murdoch murders, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, the agency investigating the double homicide, came out with a statement saying that they were reopening Stevens' case due to something that they found during the Murdoch murders investigation.

Speaker 10 And so that connected these two cases. But still to this day, we do not know what happened.
And it just drives me.

Speaker 10 It's something that just eats at me. I just, and I'm really glad that the creators went with telling Stephen's story as a part of this show in the way that they did.

Speaker 10 And hopefully, it will lead to answers. Lots of people.
And I'm one of them.

Speaker 10 I believe that there are a group of, now they're young men in Hampton County who know exactly what happened to Stephen, and they just won't say. And I just hope something.

Speaker 10 I hope something breaks.

Speaker 1 Do you have an opinion on what you think happened? I know, as an investigative journalist, I'm sure you try to stick to the facts, but you've been so obviously involved in this case.

Speaker 1 It must be hard not to speculate or have guesses of your own.

Speaker 10 Oh, absolutely. And like, I'm a big, I don't believe that journalists can be unbiased.
I believe all of us have opinions. Some of us are better at hiding it than others.

Speaker 10 So I try in my podcast to be very transparent about where I'm at with things and why I believe them. And

Speaker 10 I mean, honestly, I think that somebody in the Murdoch family had something to do with Stephen's death. I think that they were involved in it way too much

Speaker 10 from day one.

Speaker 10 It would just be too many weird coincidence

Speaker 10 or they know what happened. Like something,

Speaker 10 somebody in that family knows what happened to Stephen.

Speaker 1 It almost seems like...

Speaker 1 Sorry for cutting you off, but it almost seems like how the family was involved in the boat crash and in the potential efforts to cover it up.

Speaker 1 Are you saying that with Stephen's death, there were very similar patterns of this family kind of hovering over the case in that way?

Speaker 10 Yeah. From the day one when Stephen was found dead,

Speaker 10 Sandy Smith, Stephen's mother,

Speaker 10 said that her family got a call from Randy Murdoch,

Speaker 10 who's Buster's uncle, Alex's brother, offering to represent the Smith family.

Speaker 10 And that's kind of a repeated move in the Murdoch world of putting a lawyer on the other side to pretend like they're on their side. They did that with the Gloria Satterfield case.

Speaker 10 They did that in the boat crash. And

Speaker 10 it was just, it was a weird, a weird thing because there was no like lawsuit at that point. There was no reason for Randy Murdoch to want to get involved.
And then months later,

Speaker 10 he submitted a tip to the South Carolina Highway Patrol saying something along the line,

Speaker 10 saying that he had heard that two other kids that were completely different from Buster had killed Stephen. And it's like, why would he care? This just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 10 And again, not saying that Randy has anything to do with this. It's just a very weird thing that the Murdoch name came up that many times.

Speaker 10 And it was also weird that the investigation appeared to be corrupt.

Speaker 10 Like it appeared from, it was just skewed from the very beginning that somebody was trying to set things off course with making it look like a hit and run.

Speaker 10 And there's not that many people in that small of town who have connections and power in the way that the Murdochs do. So all of those things added up.
I'm just, I don't know.

Speaker 10 I think somebody in that family knows what happened to him.

Speaker 8 The series ended on.

Speaker 8 A little bit of like a

Speaker 8 maybe he didn't do it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I was going to ask.

Speaker 1 Is it over? Is that, we're up to date. So the last episode, is that the end of season one or the series? Is there another episode coming out?

Speaker 10 Oh, we have two more episodes.

Speaker 4 Oh, thank God. All right.
Thank God.

Speaker 1 Because that last episode, I was very confused.

Speaker 4 That would be very confusing.

Speaker 4 He didn't do it. Well,

Speaker 1 you know, there are two more episodes, so we are excited to see how it unfolds. But in the last episode, I am curious what you think about that because the way they portray the events of the murder.

Speaker 1 And again, you can see how maybe creatively they might play the next episode, but it really,

Speaker 1 it really is unclear who did it. I mean, it really is shot in a way where it's just like, oh, Alec didn't do it.
You know, they right.

Speaker 8 They show him with his mom at the house and then coming back. Is that because we learned so much in trial about phone towers? And yeah.

Speaker 10 So, like, for a long time, all we were getting was Alec's version of what happened, which was like his weird,

Speaker 10 his alibi never made any sense to me.

Speaker 10 like he said like I went after after dinner I went to go take a nap on the couch and then I decided to go see my mom at nine o'clock at night and then raced there and then raced home then none of that made any sense and then they were murdered during that time he said again I was not a part of the creative process what how they decided to shoot this but I really appreciate at first I was a little nervous not gonna lie guys the first time that I watched it I was like

Speaker 10 Are we, what are we doing here? Are we

Speaker 4 trying to make end guys?

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 1 so we should, we should keep watching, is what you're saying.

Speaker 4 Keep watching, exactly.

Speaker 10 I've had some, yeah, because people that listen to the podcast too have been texting me, like, Mandy, you're a part of this. Like, this looks like an Alex's innocent thing.

Speaker 10 And it's like, no, just keep watching. Like, it's, yeah.

Speaker 1 Thanks for clarifying because I was

Speaker 1 really caught off guard during that last scene.

Speaker 8 it was riveting fascinating but a little confusing but we will definitely keep watching what was your opinion watching the trial and then the aftermath of finding out that the county clerk was involved in some sort of way which is now like

Speaker 8 he's appealing or something like oh my gosh like again

Speaker 10 I

Speaker 10 wanted this all to be over in 2023 because at that point I'd been doing this for four years. And I was just like, God, let's just end this.
Like, he's got to go to prison. Like, let's move on.

Speaker 10 Everybody, like, this man deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. We've proven that a hundred times over.

Speaker 10 And that was another time I was on a trip. Every time I'm on a trip, like, something insane happens.

Speaker 10 And I was helping my friend get ready for her wedding in Italy, actually, and got a ton of text messages from people saying Dick and Jim, who are Alex's very silly attorneys

Speaker 10 had a press conference and they're saying that becky hill the county clerk tampered with the jury and we were all like oh god my first reaction was like i hope she didn't but i don't know during the trial there were a lot of

Speaker 10 I could kind of tell that she was getting too close to reporters and she was kind of really, really enjoying the spotlight. And she's a small town clerk.

Speaker 10 I mean, like a lot of small town county clerks aren't really cut out for having media from all over the world descend on your courthouse and this insanity happening and i think she just got caught up uh but i don't believe that she tampered with the jury i think that

Speaker 1 she

Speaker 10 was very stupid in a lot of things that she did. But yeah, that's been a whole another thing.

Speaker 10 And thankfully, last year, Justice Toll shot that whole thing down and said Becky Hill did not tamper with the jury.

Speaker 10 Like what the jury decided had nothing to do with all of the crazy stuff Becky had going on. But yeah, that was a,

Speaker 10 I, I, I mean, honestly, my thought was like, God damn it. Like if Becky Hill ruined this whole thing and we have to do it again, I'm going to be so pissed.
Like

Speaker 8 cases closed. He's behind bars.

Speaker 10 for how long forever ever yeah he's got life in prison and then he's got another like 50 years on the financial crimes and then he's got a federal prison on present, federal, yeah, he's, he's locked in forever.

Speaker 1 What's Buster up to these days?

Speaker 8 Well, his wife came on my TikTok for you page doing a lip sync dance. Really? Yeah.
And I was like,

Speaker 8 all right.

Speaker 10 I have not seen that yet.

Speaker 8 It was something about like, it was something about the show.

Speaker 8 uh her and her friend yeah but she was doing a lip sync promoting the show no kind of like having to live through this again or something along the lines.

Speaker 1 Yeah. What are your thoughts on Buster? I mean, on some levels, you feel for the person.
Again, not sure how involved he was, if not with the Steven death, but like he is a part of this family.

Speaker 1 Like, I guess the question for you is like,

Speaker 1 do you have any sympathy? For any of these family members or people involved adjacent?

Speaker 1 Were they all in some ways corrupt? Was this whole family kind of dark and evil? Or

Speaker 1 was it really Alec, the, you know, the kind of the leader of all the darkness?

Speaker 10 You know, that's a really great question. And at first, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for a lot of people,

Speaker 10 especially with my job as an investigative journalist. I just kind of, I find out horrible things about people.
all the time, especially men that are just getting away with it constantly.

Speaker 10 And I have a hard time

Speaker 10 getting sympathy for people. However, I've learned throughout this journey, especially with Paul, and I want to talk about what Johnny Birchtall did with Paul because

Speaker 10 in 2019, when I first, and I got a lot of phone calls between 2019 and 2021 about

Speaker 10 Paul getting drunk again and Paul being an asshole. And he was just obviously this spoiled brat kid.
I had zero sympathy for him.

Speaker 10 Even after the murder, I'll be honest, after the murder, I was like, I've heard nothing but bad things about this kid. It sucks that he died, but like, he also killed Mallory and

Speaker 10 lots of things, has been accused of all sorts of things. But then it took me a long time to really realize that like he never had a chance in the way that he was raised.

Speaker 10 Him and Buster never really had a chance to be normal. They were raised by this psychopath.

Speaker 10 who taught them that their name and everything and that they were better than everybody else. And

Speaker 10 that, like, I heard, I remember I talked to a couple of Buster and Paul's teachers, and they were saying, even when these kids were little in school, teachers were not allowed to discipline the Murdoch kids.

Speaker 4 Like,

Speaker 10 Buster and Paul could walk in late to class every day, and teachers weren't allowed to do anything about it because their mom worked for the school board or their grandma worked for the school board.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 so, they just had, they just constantly were protecting these kids, and they never, ever told them no or gave them any sense of accountability in life.

Speaker 10 So I really have gained a lot of empathy for both Paul and Buster in the last couple of years.

Speaker 10 And especially, I mean, watching Johnny in the show go through all the emotions of what Paul was going through at that time. And I believe that he was.

Speaker 10 I think that that's something that I've come to recognize. Like I was really, really hard on in my reporting of Paul for years.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 then I started to realize like, oh, wow, the evil is all his father. And

Speaker 10 yes, like he made bad decisions. And yes, he could have been a better person, but he also didn't have a chance.
He died at 20,

Speaker 10 at 22. And it's like, Nobody really makes great decisions before they're 22.
And it's sad that he never got redemption and he never got a chance. I do think that he was

Speaker 10 more emotionally connected than Buster. I would say that, like, I think a big problem in their family was that Paul would kind of challenge his father in a way that Buster wouldn't.

Speaker 10 And that would piss his dad off. And I think that Paul really like felt like an outsider in his family.

Speaker 8 Do the Murdochs have any sort of money still?

Speaker 4 Oh, girl, that's a great question.

Speaker 10 Yeah, they do. We know that they do.

Speaker 10 um randolph murdoch the the grandpa when he died i think he had like a ten million dollar trust that he passed down to his family so and and he was also a public servant he was a solicitor so how did he have all that money who knows right um there was a lot of money in a lot of different places and

Speaker 10 A lot of people, including me, still believe that like Alex has access to it and

Speaker 10 that nobody's ever going to find it. And I mean, there is like literally $10 million missing that no one has found.
The FBI tried, but it didn't. I don't think they really tried, I'll be honest.

Speaker 10 But I think one of my biggest problems and something that I've really realized with the justice system is how much easier of a track people like Alex get when they have very, very expensive attorneys represent them.

Speaker 10 And Alex had two of the most expensive defense attorneys in the state of South Carolina. And just today they put out a like 120-page appeal that costs a ton of money.

Speaker 10 And his attorneys tried to say that they were doing it pro bono for a while, but we were all like, you guys don't do things for free. We know.

Speaker 10 But I don't understand why there isn't more pressure on like, where is this money coming from that you're being paid? And

Speaker 10 this doesn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 1 Before we let you go, I just have one more question. If the boat crash doesn't happen, do you think Paul and Maggie are alive today?

Speaker 10 Ooh, that's a tough question.

Speaker 10 And that's actually a little foreshadowing for a question that's asked to Brittany Snell later in the series. So good job.

Speaker 8 I

Speaker 10 don't know. I think, yeah, probably.
I mean, I think that the boat crash set forth a series of events, but I think that somebody else would have died because of this family's reckless behavior.

Speaker 10 I don't think that it would have been all hunky-dory if the boat crash wouldn't have happened. You know, like, I think that

Speaker 10 all of these things came to the surface because of the boat crash, but Paul was on a destructive path and his father was on a destructive path. So, somebody was going to die.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I kind of agree with you that like maybe it wouldn't have been then, but this was a family heading to a dark path and just all the

Speaker 1 things that Alec was doing and all the people he was screwing over.

Speaker 1 It really seemed like the weight of the world was eventually going to come down on him. Oh, just

Speaker 1 one more question. Because obviously, a lot of these series will often like timelines get a little, like you, you mentioned, moved up around.
You got to tell a story. Do we know for sure?

Speaker 1 Like, did the murders happen all around the time when his dad was dying and Maggie was leaving him and like asking for a divorce in terms of like, was she not wearing her wedding ring when she was killed and things like that?

Speaker 10 So, this, another like complicated question, but

Speaker 10 everything with the story is so complicated.

Speaker 10 Yes, his father was dying. His father died three days after

Speaker 10 the murders happened. And that was also a weird thing.
But Maggie was living separately from Alex at the time of the murders, and she was not wearing her wedding ring.

Speaker 10 There were reports from the lady who did her nails saying that she told her that she was thinking about getting a divorce.

Speaker 10 But I think in reality, I think the show kind of displays her thoughts more than her actions, if that makes sense. I think like she wanted to get a divorce and she wanted to be making these steps.

Speaker 10 But also she saw reality, which is in South Carolina, divorcing a Murdoch in the Low Country is literally impossible.

Speaker 4 And she knew that.

Speaker 10 So I think that she just felt extremely stuck. But with her wedding ring being off, some people say that it was because she was getting her nails done earlier that day.

Speaker 10 Who knows? But she definitely wasn't living there.

Speaker 1 Okay. That call she made in the series to a lawyer and left like a voice message.
I'm guessing that didn't, like that, that message doesn't exist.

Speaker 10 I have tried really. I mean, I remember the summer after the murders, I

Speaker 10 contacted a ton of divorce attorneys and just basically asked, has Maggie Murdoch, like on the lowdown, has Maggie Murdock?

Speaker 10 And I could not find anybody. But so we don't know if it happened or not.
But I think, again, it kind of shows what her thought process and what she wanted to do.

Speaker 10 And the other thing that's true to form

Speaker 10 or true to life is that her sister unfortunately did encourage her to go to Mozell that day. And Alex did call her suspiciously and say, you need to come here because of my father.
My dad's dying.

Speaker 10 She was lured there. And that was a big part, a big piece of the puzzle.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I think the only the last question I have, and you probably are like, I, again, you, you were just an executive producer. You didn't, you know, write the script or anything, but they use the word bow

Speaker 8 so much. And I'm from the, I'm from the South.
I lived in Savannah, Georgia for 10 years of my life. So like this.
Oh, Savannah.

Speaker 8 Yeah, this, this case was big in Savannah as it was big in Hilton Head and South Carolina.

Speaker 8 And the use of bow is like used so much where I'm like, is it that different that in South Carolina, they use it that much and in Savannah they don't?

Speaker 10 It is so funny. The all the bow discourse that's happening online, like all the

Speaker 4 things. Okay, I'm not the only one.

Speaker 10 It's been, no, you're not. Like, there's a lot of controversy over bow.

Speaker 4 It's very funny.

Speaker 10 My opinion on it, like in Hilton Head, no one says bow. In Savannah, no one says bow.
But like mid-South Carolina, Columbia, Hampton,

Speaker 10 more rural areas, they say Bo a lot more and they say it kind of like bro.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I mean, I'm lived in Rincon, Effingham County, which is like definitely rural. We definitely, yeah, everyone, a lot of people said bow.
It just feels like every other word in the show.

Speaker 4 These, these, these, they like it.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I've seen a lot of like you're overusing it.

Speaker 10 Um, but the creator of our show, Michael d fuller he's an amazing guy and he's from columbia or he's from lexington columbia and he was very big on both he's like this is what we said growing up so we're gonna

Speaker 1 and it does it makes for a funny um controversy that everyone's always going back and forth to your point these shows are are written obviously for larger audiences, for everyone involved.

Speaker 1 And they are trying to like paint a picture of these people. And I do think they did a good job of portraying Alec Murdoch as like this man-child, right? This kind of very

Speaker 1 boyish, you know, no rules applied. He might be 50, but he acts like he's an 18-year-old and, you know, chumming it up with the locals.

Speaker 1 And I think to that point, they did a good job of painting who Alex Murdoch was.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I mean, and Jason Clark, like, my God, the person.

Speaker 4 Oh my God.

Speaker 8 So good.

Speaker 10 I didn't, again,

Speaker 10 everything,

Speaker 10 like, I was always a little bit, I'm suspicious of everything.

Speaker 10 So this has nothing to do with the creators, but like, I saw a picture of Jason Clark first and I was like, how are they going to do that? Like, he's kind of a good looking dude.

Speaker 4 And Alex is disgusting.

Speaker 10 But I saw him on set and was like, oh, my God.

Speaker 4 It's crazy.

Speaker 8 Looks just like them.

Speaker 4 Sounds just like them.

Speaker 10 He had the mannerism. He acted just like Alec Murdoch on set.
Like he did not, I never heard his Australian accent one time on set. It was just constantly.
He was, he was talking like it.

Speaker 10 He was kind of always angry, kind of scary.

Speaker 10 Just a phenomenal job. I, I could not picture, now I can't picture anybody else being him, you know,

Speaker 10 become the same person.

Speaker 1 Both him and Patricia Arquette, remarkable performers.

Speaker 4 Yeah, Patricia.

Speaker 1 It's all very well acted, even

Speaker 1 the actors who played the boys. It's a really well done series.
So congratulations to your involvement. And it's been really fascinating to watch and obviously a very tragic story.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't know if there's lessons to be learned. I think most of us aren't trying to cheat the system and doing what the Murdochs did, but certainly it's a case that captivated this country.

Speaker 1 And this series is a very entertaining and easily digestible watch that really gives you an accurate portrayal of what went down. So

Speaker 1 thanks for bringing helping to bring it to life.

Speaker 10 Well, thank you. And

Speaker 10 I think there's a lot of lessons. I think like Brittany's character in the show, me

Speaker 10 representing a lot of the journalists and the Mark Tinsley character representing a lot of

Speaker 10 the attorneys who really like, it's kind of a David versus Goliath story of like, nobody thought that the system could ever change.

Speaker 10 Nobody thought that a Murdoch could ever be held accountable in Hampton County. And like, turns out he can.
So that's what I, that's my big takeaway. I like to tell people.

Speaker 1 All right, Mandy. Well, I appreciate you taking the time.
Where can people follow your work as they get more into the show?

Speaker 10 Follow me on Instagram at Mandy Mattney. My podcast is now called True Sunlight Podcast.

Speaker 10 I have two podcasts, True Sunlight Podcast and Type of Justice Podcast, and also listen to the official Murdoch, Death, and the Family podcast where I go behind the scenes with the cast and crew.

Speaker 1 Awesome. All right.
Appreciate your time.

Speaker 8 Thank you. Thank you guys.

Speaker 4 Well, that was fascinating.

Speaker 8 So interesting. Murdoch, Death, and the Family on Hulu Now.
It's

Speaker 1 so wild about her is that like she was invest, like she was already investigating the family because of the boat crash and then like lived through the murders of Maggie and Paul.

Speaker 8 It's a wild Paul. It's a wild story.

Speaker 4 Hold your family close.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if you know Gary, the Golden Bachelor, keep your distance.

Speaker 4 He will chop you up. Because he may chop you up.

Speaker 1 He already has a place for your body.

Speaker 8 Has anyone checked out that shed actually recently? Maybe they should.

Speaker 5 I live there.

Speaker 8 Where were they? Like, do we know what's pretty lake? I don't know. Pretty lake, but someone, the police, the FBI, the police need to go check it out.

Speaker 1 As ladies often do. Now I was on Redfin not too long ago, just checking out some properties, you know, checking up some land.
And she sent me this listing of this,

Speaker 1 a lot of acreage, looked really nice. And I was like, why does this place look familiar? Turns out it was Mozell.

Speaker 8 It was the Murdoch family.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 7 Oh, you thought she wanted to buy the house?

Speaker 1 No, but she sent to me about the house.

Speaker 4 She

Speaker 4 What about this place?

Speaker 8 And I was like, ooh, like, yeah, Nick was like, that seems kind of like out in the middle of nowhere. I don't know, not really close to anything.
I'm like,

Speaker 8 then he's like, wait, is that? I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 7 Honestly, that's a good bit for like a TikTok trend. Showing my husband haunted houses, but seeing if he'll buy it.

Speaker 8 Would you live in a haunted house? Like if it was for, if it was like a good deal, like a beautiful home on sale because of what happened there, but like nothing else is wrong with it.

Speaker 8 It depends on why it's haunted. If it's haunted from like history, like the 1850s, I can do it.
If it's like a recent, like

Speaker 8 someone Murdoch murdered his son and wife, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm not fucking with like a recent murder.

Speaker 5 Speaking of spooky places, I did look up pretty late, and there are two. There's one in Indiana and Nick and Adley, one in Wisconsin.

Speaker 4 Isn't he from Indiana?

Speaker 5 I'm guessing it's the one in Indiana, but you guys can go to one.

Speaker 1 Send the police. It writes itself.
The murder happened at Purdy Lake.

Speaker 5 Pretty late.

Speaker 4 Literally.

Speaker 5 But what the police found was not so pretty.

Speaker 1 Well, that'll wrap up today's episode. Do not forget to check out our new merch.
It's dropping this Thursday.

Speaker 1 Go to our link in bio in our show description or my Instagram to follow the countdown along. Join us on Thursday for an exciting reality recap.

Speaker 1 We have Harvey Guin returning to the show to help us talk a little Salt Lake City. You know him.
You love him. He returns to the show.
He's hilarious.

Speaker 1 And he is in love with Salt Lake City, just like us. Also, we have Elaine Hendrix from Dancing with the Stars following her injury.
She's still crushing on the ballroom dance floor.

Speaker 1 And she will join us to talk about her experience on Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 1 And if you haven't listened to the Going Deeper episode that we had last week with Spark Omega and Jordan and all our Love is Blind coverage, be sure to check that out if you haven't already.

Speaker 1 That will do it for today's episode.

Speaker 4 Bye-bye.

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