E1030 Ask Nick - My Daughter's Secret Sister

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Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 3 I'm doing good. My name is Emma.
I'm 36 years old. How do I balance keeping the peace with my ex while also making sure that my daughter knows the truth?

Speaker 1 What is the truth that you want your daughter to know?

Speaker 3 The truth is that she has a half sister by her dad.

Speaker 1 Okay. And why is that a challenge?

Speaker 1 What's the issue?

Speaker 3 The issue is that after we split up,

Speaker 3 I guess he had met a girl and they dated for a while and she ended up getting pregnant.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 we both knew that she was pregnant. The girl told me herself.
So I know that he knew that.

Speaker 3 They shortly split up after that.

Speaker 3 And he's basically just said nothing about the daughter that she had. So I'm struggling with whether...

Speaker 3 I don't feel like it's my place to tell my daughter, but if he's not going to, then I feel that I should.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. So, is this your ex-husband or just an ex-boyfriend?

Speaker 3 Ex-husband. Ex-husband.

Speaker 1 Okay. So, your ex-husband.
And how long were you guys married for?

Speaker 3 We were married for about seven years.

Speaker 1 And how old's your daughter?

Speaker 3 She's 10, about to be 11.

Speaker 1 Okay. How old is her half-sister?

Speaker 3 I believe she's eight now.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. And your ex-husband has nothing to do with this child's life?

Speaker 3 No. And the mother of that child does not want him to be a part of her life.

Speaker 3 So it's really more so just giving my daughter an opportunity to know her half sister and have a relationship with her, even if the dad is not involved.

Speaker 1 Do you currently have a relationship with the mom?

Speaker 3 I do on a like an acquaintance level.

Speaker 3 Just to kind of give you a little background when She originally told me she was pregnant and then she had her daughter and then we didn't talk for a couple of years And then she reached out to me and expressed interest in our daughters knowing each other and having a relationship.

Speaker 3 And so I agreed to that.

Speaker 3 But I had the condition that I wanted to confirm that it, that this was my daughter's half-sister by like doing a DNA test

Speaker 3 just to make sure, because I didn't know her situation or if she was with other people at the time. So we did that and we did confirm that they are sisters.

Speaker 1 How long ago was that?

Speaker 3 That was

Speaker 3 six, seven years ago. Okay, so it's this has been ongoing for a while, and it's kind of just a topic that is just not discussed, but it's just kind of looming in the background.

Speaker 3 And the older my daughter gets, the more

Speaker 3 the more responsibility I kind of feel that I need to let her know and give her the opportunity to have a relationship.

Speaker 3 But I also feel like it's it should be his place to have that conversation with her.

Speaker 1 Okay. And so, so, what is the relationship you have with the mom right now?

Speaker 3 We're just, I wouldn't really call us friends, but we're cordial. We're nice to each other.

Speaker 3 There were times when it was my daughter's birthday, I would invite her daughter to my daughter's birthday parties.

Speaker 1 Would she come?

Speaker 3 That hasn't happened. That hasn't happened in several years because I worried that my daughter, as she was getting older, would start to ask, you know, who is this person? How do you know this person?

Speaker 3 Those types of things.

Speaker 1 So when was the last time you're does your daughter even remember this girl no okay

Speaker 1 no and and what relationship do you have today like are you as

Speaker 1 when was the last time you've spoken with this family i have not spoken to her in over a year okay maybe it's definitely a tricky situation um

Speaker 1 i think right now more than anything

Speaker 1 It's probably weighing on your mind more

Speaker 1 than you probably need it to.

Speaker 1 It's definitely someday, I imagine, that you're going to have to address, right?

Speaker 1 Your daughter definitely has a right to know if she has siblings, especially because you know, right? And so you're stuck between this, anyone would, any person out there,

Speaker 1 I'm assuming, I can't speak for every person in the world, but I think that most people, and I think it's safe to assume,

Speaker 1 That if you had a sibling or a half sibling out there, you would want to know

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 I, you know, I can't imagine anyone not wanting to know, but I certainly there are situations for whatever reason. And you know, and your ex-husband knows you know.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 what conversations have you ever had with your ex-husband about this?

Speaker 3 Not many. And he does not know that we did the DNA test.

Speaker 1 But he knows that you know that. You know, he knows that you know, if nothing else, that she has a daughter.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 3 So, and he's also married, and I don't know if his wife knows. I assume that maybe she does.

Speaker 1 That's not really, yeah. So, I guess off the top of my head, and I'm just,

Speaker 1 I'm workshopping this, so I reserve the right to change my mind, but I'm thinking out loud here, right? So, if I were in your position as of now,

Speaker 1 this is what I think I would eventually do. Because right now, I don't know if you necessarily need to handle or address that your daughter's how old again?

Speaker 3 She's 10.

Speaker 1 She's 10.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, at this point, I suppose it's your call to, you know, because your daughter doesn't know the difference, to think whether like you want to incorporate this woman and her daughter in your life, your daughter's half-sister, in the hopes that they would have some kind of relationship.

Speaker 1 You know, when it comes to these family dynamics, I don't know what's right or what's wrong, right? You know, like, you know, two different moms from the, you know, the same guy, right?

Speaker 1 And like, I, like I just said, I think anyone would want to know

Speaker 1 if they had a sibling.

Speaker 1 I don't, I mean, again, I'm sure a lot of people listening would have lots of different opinions on this topic, but I don't know if both of you owe it to each of your children to go out of your way to make sure that they're hanging out, so to speak.

Speaker 1 Like, it's not like, I don't know. Also, it might not even be practical.
I don't know if she lives in the area or she's around or how convenient or inconvenient it would be.

Speaker 1 It might be more complicated.

Speaker 1 Who knows?

Speaker 1 But eventually, I guess what I'm saying is if you were to, your daughter, let's say getting, you know, she's a teenager now, I don't know, at some point, at some point you're going to want her to know.

Speaker 1 And at some point, when she's old enough to decide for herself what she wants to do with this information, I'm guessing is that time.

Speaker 1 I don't know when that age is, but at some point your daughter will be old enough to start making more and more decisions for herself.

Speaker 1 And you will, and in that moment, you will want to give her the option to decide for herself what she wants to do, you know, with this half sister that she has.

Speaker 1 So first, I guess it's, it's step one is talking to the other mom and kind of feel her out, you know, and against in the sense it's like, hey, you know, I'm trying to find the right balance here and I'm trying to be as respectful as possible to everyone involved, while at the same time, knowing and just acknowledging that my biggest priority is my daughter, you know, and her happiness.

Speaker 1 Because like, you don't want to, for example,

Speaker 1 go to your ex-husband ex-husband and say, hey, listen, I don't want to cause any drama for you, but our daughter is going to want it. She has the right to know that she has a sibling out there.

Speaker 1 I am not trying to stick my business where it doesn't belong, but this is, she has the right to know. I would love for you to tell her.
I would. And so I'm just coming to you to ask that.

Speaker 1 But it's someday, if you don't tell her, someday I'm going to, you know, when she's old enough to decide what she wants to do with her life and who she wants her life to, you know, she has the right to know.

Speaker 1 If nothing else, I mean, you can, you can scapegoat it by being like, listen, we live in a world where you know, ancerosi.com, 23andMe, the DNA tests and things like that.

Speaker 1 Like it's, it is so easy for people to find out if they have half sisters, stepbrothers, cousins. You know, we've had people call in who have found out grandma cheated.

Speaker 1 because of a 23andme test and things like that. So it's like, how do you want her to find out? Someday, I, I, someday she's going to find out.
And I think it should come from either of us.

Speaker 1 I think it should come from you. But if you're not going to tell her, I am not going to wait to her to find out on her own and her come to me and say, how long have you known this? Do you know this?

Speaker 1 Because I'm not going to lie to her. Right.

Speaker 3 Right. And that's where my concern is.
And I think I have a little bit of

Speaker 3 an attachment to this topic because I had half siblings as well growing up.

Speaker 3 I knew about them, but I wasn't really given the opportunity. We lived in different states.

Speaker 3 And so obviously we had to rely on our parents to make time to get us together and to allow us to, you know, develop a relationship growing up. And I wasn't really given that opportunity.

Speaker 3 We have relationship now as adults, but you know, you have different bonds with people that you grow up with as children versus meeting them as an adult. So

Speaker 3 she is still a child, of course, but you know, as she keeps growing up as they do, I just

Speaker 3 start, it just weighs more on me on what I should do. And our co-parenting relationship has come a really long way.
We're doing really great right now.

Speaker 3 And so I don't want to rock the boat, but I just, I feel like, like you said, it's going to come up eventually.

Speaker 3 And I don't want to have to be the one to look her in the eye and say, yeah, I knew about this all these years.

Speaker 1 And I just, I didn't say anything. Why doesn't your ex-husband want a relationship with his other daughter?

Speaker 3 I don't know, to be be honest, because he's such a great dad with our daughter.

Speaker 3 It is something that has really confused me a lot.

Speaker 3 I think he just, no,

Speaker 3 I think it has a lot to do with the mom he doesn't want anything to do with, but I don't know. It's a really weird dynamic.

Speaker 3 And the other mom very much so wants our daughters to have a relationship, but she wants nothing to do with him.

Speaker 3 She doesn't want him to be in her daughter's life.

Speaker 1 So that's a a little

Speaker 1 bit weird to call her to.

Speaker 3 I think because she knows who he is as a person and she is, she knows that I've struggled over the years with co-parenting and she just, she wants nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1 But it has come a long way.

Speaker 3 I think she feels maybe like

Speaker 3 the positives don't outweigh the negatives that she could potentially deal with.

Speaker 1 Well, the other needle you have to thread is the fact that she doesn't want your ex-husband in any way involved. So you also kind of have to go to her

Speaker 1 at some point and say, Hey, at some point, I'm going to want my daughter to know. And I don't, you know, and maybe like mom to mom,

Speaker 1 you have a conversation with her and just reach out with, hey, listen, I just want to talk about our daughters and kind of be a little vulnerable, being like, I don't know the best way to approach this.

Speaker 1 Obviously, like you, I care mostly about my daughter's happiness. I want her to know that she has a sister out there someday.
And I think it'd be cool for them to have a relationship.

Speaker 1 Someday she's going to have to know regardless. But like, you don't want, let's call him Jerry.
You don't want Jerry in your life at all.

Speaker 1 And I also would like Jerry to be the one to tell my daughter the truth because I do think it should come from him.

Speaker 1 So I don't really know the best way to approach this. I think at some point, like you can't be the only reasonable person in this like triangle of trying to manage relationships.

Speaker 1 And I think, you know, granted, he, your ex-husband, I imagine, would be a little uncomfortable knowing that you have kept in touch with this mom, but you also could say, listen, I'm just going to be upfront with you.

Speaker 1 She knows I existed. She reached out to me and she is the mother of my daughter's sister.
And like, that's not nothing, you know?

Speaker 1 And I don't want to deny my daughter the opportunity to know her sister because again, someday

Speaker 1 it's more likely that she does, she's going to find out than not find out.

Speaker 1 And I'm never going to lie to her.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a very weird spot to be in because

Speaker 3 I feel like it's not my business at all, other than the fact that it does affect my daughter. But I feel like

Speaker 3 I'm trying to like come up with solutions and I really feel like it should be on.

Speaker 1 I do think if anyone throws that in your face, you do have the benefit of like, it's your daughter. So especially as long as your daughter is a minor,

Speaker 1 everything that's your daughter's business is your business. Now, that's not an excuse to just kind of go rogue, but you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 I don't think anyone is in a position, this scenario, to completely exclude you from having an opinion about this situation, right?

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, I don't think your ex-husband can say that to you or this, this other mom, you know,

Speaker 1 he might say that to you, but it doesn't make him right.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I know that if I brought it up right now, it would just feel very out of the blue to him and he would feel like I'm trying to attack him or come after him in some way.

Speaker 3 And it's really not that, you know, it's like, I just want, I just know that she's going to have questions that I can't answer because I wasn't involved in that, you know.

Speaker 3 So that's why I would obviously prefer for it to come from him. That way she can ask all the questions she has and they can sort that out, you know, father, daughter.

Speaker 3 But I just don't see him ever doing that. So I don't see him ever taking that initiative because, for whatever reason, they've both just decided to just ignore it or let it go for now.

Speaker 3 I'm not really sure which one or why.

Speaker 1 You're in a tough situation with this.

Speaker 1 But I also think, again, like, you don't have to do anything right now. Right now, you haven't heard from the mom in a year, right? Right.

Speaker 1 So I think maybe the next time you consider addressing this situation is the next time this mom reaches out. And then you can ask yourself,

Speaker 1 and you know, depending on what she reaches out for, let's assume she reaches out to say, hey, have you given any more thought about our, our daughter's meeting?

Speaker 1 So, short of that, there's no real, you know, there's no immediate urgency.

Speaker 1 I don't know the age where, you know, I don't know. I imagine when your daughter's in middle school, I don't know what she's, how old is she now? 10 or 11, you said?

Speaker 3 Yeah, she'll be in middle school next year.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 3 I think that's why there is no super urgency. It's just kind of,

Speaker 3 it just kind of almost feels like this bomb that's just, you know, just been ticking over the years. And you know, it's going to explode.
You just don't know.

Speaker 1 Has your daughter ever asked about?

Speaker 1 Does your ex-husband have children with anyone else?

Speaker 3 No, but he has stepchildren that he's very much involved with.

Speaker 3 Great dad to them as well. That's why it's a little

Speaker 3 confusing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 it's

Speaker 1 his prerogative. But has your daughter ever ever asked about siblings?

Speaker 3 No, but I don't, she would have no reason to or

Speaker 1 I mean, she might just say, oh, I'd love to have a sister. I mean, kids seem crazy.
I don't know. Well, I mean, so they, you know, you've never been put in a position.

Speaker 1 13, 14, I imagine they're like, you know,

Speaker 1 I remember being in high school being self-I would have wanted to know in high school, so to speak.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Well, and that's a reason why we, you know, we were, we weren't hanging out frequently, but I would say we saw each other maybe three times a year um and the last time we saw each other the other mom had made the comment that you know she

Speaker 3 that if her daughter because her daughter was you know getting older too and she said if she asked me who your daughter is i'm going to tell her and so that's when i kind of pulled back because i was like well i don't want my daughter to find out because your daughter just says something to her randomly um i want her to find out you know the way i feel like she should find out from the person she should find out from.

Speaker 3 But of course, I don't have control over that. So

Speaker 3 that's what kind of made me pull away from that situation and why we haven't seen each other in a long time because they were getting older and it just would have been harder to explain, you know, who is this person?

Speaker 3 Why are they at my birthday party?

Speaker 1 Do they live in your area? Are they living in your neighborhood?

Speaker 3 They live in our area, yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, I honestly think that's like, you know, I think this would be worth talking to a one or a couple child psychologists and getting their opinion on the best time or the best age to deliver this type of news to a child and I don't have that answer that's for sure also I would ask more than one person because I'm curious you know because if you have access to that I'd be curious about that because there might be people who actually

Speaker 1 have some very specific knowledge on that I don't know if there's a perfect time, but there may be a better time.

Speaker 1 But my advice to you is don't get, don't discount your role as the mom and the rights you have to be the best mom that you can be to your daughter.

Speaker 1 And I think more than anything, that matters the most.

Speaker 1 I think you can try to be as respectful as it sounds like you have been in the, with the goal of maintaining a positive co-parenting experience with your ex-husband.

Speaker 1 And so to that end, whenever you get to the point, where you feel like

Speaker 1 I might need to tell her, you know, whenever that is. Maybe it's a year from now, maybe it's two years from now.
Who knows?

Speaker 1 Next, you know, you can see him and say, Hey, there's something I want to talk to you about.

Speaker 1 I know it's always going to feel random, but you can, you don't say, you don't call him up and be like, hey, I'm going to tell her she has a daughter.

Speaker 1 You just say, hey, there's something I want to talk to you about.

Speaker 1 And you could just say, hey, listen, I don't know what's going on in your world, but like, I don't like the idea that our, you know, our daughter doesn't know that she has a sibling.

Speaker 1 And you could just say, like,

Speaker 1 you know, Janet reached out to me. And, you know, like, I have, you know, we don't really keep in touch, but like, I just feel like I'm stuck between, you know, two different parties.

Speaker 1 Like, I, I also just think, again, like, you guys are co-parents. So I don't know what you guys discuss when it comes to your daughter and like what she should do.

Speaker 1 And, and I don't know, I don't, I don't know what you guys do, but you must have some kind of co-parenting style, right? Like, what is that style?

Speaker 1 Like, what, what do you guys, how do you you guys address, yeah, tough decisions when it comes to your daughter?

Speaker 3 Um, I'm not sure how to explain that. I mean, we have a pretty good line of communication now.
It's taken a long time to get there.

Speaker 3 And I feel like a huge reason we have been able to get there is because of his wife. I probably talk to her more than I talk to him.

Speaker 3 You know, ideally, I'd love to talk to her, but I don't know if she knows. So I don't want to, I don't want to just say something that big and she doesn't even know.

Speaker 3 And then that causes issues between them.

Speaker 3 So I think definitely talking to him directly is the answer. I guess I just don't know timing because like you said, no matter when I do it, it's going to feel like it's out of nowhere to him.

Speaker 3 I do like the thought of the, like just bringing up, you know, that a lot of people do the 21andMe or the all these

Speaker 3 DNA things. And, you know,

Speaker 1 she.

Speaker 3 pretty much will find out one day and it's a matter of how do you want her to find it out like wouldn't you love to have that conversation with her as the dad? And you can answer the question.

Speaker 3 I don't know how to answer certain questions because I wasn't a part of that. I wasn't there.

Speaker 3 That definitely feels like the right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And also you could just, you know, at some point, I do think you could acknowledge without trying to get the other mom in a sticky situation.

Speaker 1 Not that, you know, because there's no contact there, but. You can acknowledge that she, she has reached out to you.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you have to be specific, but because even then, like, how do you know, you know, Janet isn't going to tell her daughter that she has a sister?

Speaker 1 And again, we live in a digital world where everyone's online. It's easy to find people.
Do you want our daughter to get a random DM from saying, I'm your half-sister?

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 it's going to happen someday.

Speaker 3 Or we just run across them in Target one day. I mean, just in anything.
There's so many possibilities.

Speaker 1 So, you know, our daughter's getting to the age where she should know. And I, I, I, and you could say, I, I'm coming to you because, like, I want to be, like, respectful to you.

Speaker 1 And I don't want this to be a disruption in your life. But at the same time,

Speaker 1 I think our daughter should find out from us. Specifically, I think she should find out from you.
But, like, I would, you know, she's going to find out. So how, how do we handle this? Okay.

Speaker 1 And I think you kind of see, you know, you got to start somewhere, right? And hopefully he's reasonable about this.

Speaker 1 Like, again, like, so if we're, if we're kind of workshopping this and let's say he's like, you can't say anything, my wife doesn't know. Your daughter, it's going to come up.
It's going to come up.

Speaker 1 And I'm not going to lie to her. I don't want to be the one to tell her, but like, I don't, I, I do not want to, her to find out before I tell her and then have to tell her I knew along.

Speaker 1 You know, and you have the right, you're like, I'm not here to tell you what to do, but you can't tell me to lie to my daughter.

Speaker 3 Well, that's the thing, right? Because I don't want to be the one to tell her, but I also don't want to be someone that's keeping it from her either.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, yeah.

Speaker 3 Because I think obviously, when someone finds out news like that, there's a little bit of shock. But then you start, you know, thinking those things.
Well, how long did who knows this?

Speaker 3 And how long have they known this? And why weren't these things talked to me?

Speaker 1 And yeah. Well, and the good news is you only have

Speaker 1 she's 11,

Speaker 1 seven years to go where you have to worry about co-parenting with this guy. And I imagine the old, I imagine you have full custody.

Speaker 3 We have joint custody. I have heard the majority of the time just because of his job.

Speaker 1 But you are getting to the point that your daughter is like, even though she's only 11, she is aware.

Speaker 1 Again, I'm certainly no expert when it comes to like child custody at all. But

Speaker 1 it's my understanding that kids get to choose, you know, like they want kids to decide where they want to be and things like that. And how's your relationship with your daughter?

Speaker 1 It Sounds like genuinely positive. Yes.
Do you feel like it's? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm very, I'm very much

Speaker 3 even on the days when she's supposed to come to my house. I make sure she knows like if you want to stay at your dad's for any reason, don't ever feel bad to say that and vice versa.

Speaker 3 You know, if you don't want to go there, just tell me and we can have that talk with him. So we're both very flexible about that.

Speaker 3 And like I said, we've come a very long way and everything's great right now. So it feels, it just feels icky to even just to know this is going to rock the boat.

Speaker 3 but I just don't see how we can keep ignoring it much longer.

Speaker 1 I think you just kind of bring this energy whenever you decide to address it.

Speaker 1 I don't know your ex-husband or anything about him or how he handles things, but it's like

Speaker 1 you and I probably would have done things differently than he chose to do it, right?

Speaker 1 I don't know how he doesn't have a relationship with this person. I don't know, whatever.

Speaker 1 But he could, I guess, in some ways make the argument in his head that

Speaker 1 you're sticking your business where it doesn't belong and like you're just being dramatic. And, you know, this is none of your goddamn business.
But I guess as time has gone on,

Speaker 1 I don't think it's that much of a leap to say exactly what you're saying. To say, you know, it's not, again, I, I don't know what I do not want to face.

Speaker 1 I do not, I'm not going to apologize to our daughter for keeping a secret like this from her. And you can't guarantee me that she's never going to find out.

Speaker 3 But yeah, I definitely feel like that's the right move. It's more about just the timing.

Speaker 3 But I mean, I'm anxious because things are good, but I think that's also maybe that will be helpful because things are good, that maybe he will be more receptive to,

Speaker 3 you know, like, hey, when are we going to address this elephant in the room, so to speak? Yeah. When's going to, when's the right time?

Speaker 1 I don't think you need to tell her now if you don't think, if your instinct tells me that maybe now is not the right time.

Speaker 1 Again, if you have the opportunity and the access to like a child therapist, I would be interested in what they had to say and getting an expert's opinion on this type of stuff.

Speaker 1 I wonder if there is an ideal time to deliver this type of news and what age is the best time.

Speaker 1 It wouldn't surprise me if that's very subjective, but I would still be interested in your position to like inquire. But it sounds like in the next

Speaker 1 one to four years, give or take,

Speaker 1 you will probably feel like

Speaker 3 it's harder and harder to not tell your daughter i do like that idea of maybe talking to someone and and then maybe i could offer that person as kind of a resource to him as well like if you want to use this person to help you tell her or you know

Speaker 1 i just hope i hope i hope his wife's wife knows what's your gut tell you i i i honestly

Speaker 3 I have no idea.

Speaker 1 That will make all the difference. If she knows, this will be a lot easier.
Otherwise, if it's yeah, because then it's all he's going to care about is the having to tell his wife.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I agree. That's a big

Speaker 3 piece of the picture for sure.

Speaker 1 That would be a crazy thing for him to hide, but sounds like you wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 3 I can see how maybe someone doesn't intend to do that, but you just, you know, you just live your life. And then all of a sudden you wake up and it's years later.

Speaker 3 And you're like, well, now if I tell him, it's going to really be bad because I've waited all this time.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
No, you're right. People do that all the time.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Tough situation. Yeah.
But I think, you know, you bring in the right energy. It is very believable and logical that your daughter is going to find out at some point.

Speaker 1 It's interesting that this woman hasn't reached out in a year. Don't you find that interesting? Or does that make sense to you?

Speaker 3 It was kind of a mutual thing.

Speaker 3 Like we're friends on social media.

Speaker 3 I think it was more of of me backing away.

Speaker 1 And she's just being respectful to that, you think?

Speaker 3 Right. Because she had kind of made the comment, you know, that if her daughter asked that she would tell her the truth.

Speaker 3 And I was like, okay, I respect that, but I don't want, like, I would need to know that, that you had told her before we saw each other again.

Speaker 3 You know, I wouldn't want to just like bring her to your daughter's birthday party and your daughter's like, oh, you're my, did you know you're my sister? You know, something like that.

Speaker 1 So when she brought that up that's when i kind of pulled away because i was like okay i'm not really like in control of this situation as much as i maybe have that's good she's being respectful so that tells me she you know can put herself in your shoes but it also tells me at some point you're going to get a call yeah from this mom saying hey i want to tell my daughter she has a sister And honestly, at that point, it'll be good news for you because then you're just playing the messenger to your ex-husband, being like, hey, this is happening.

Speaker 1 I think you need to tell her because she's about to find out.

Speaker 1 The only person I want her to find out from other than me is you because I'm not going to let her be reached out to by, you know, I don't know what you guys decide.

Speaker 1 For example, that's what I'd be curious.

Speaker 1 Like, how do you, how do you decide between you and your husband, like, whether your daughter should have a phone and how online she is or what access to the internet?

Speaker 1 She has or when does she get a social media account? You know, do you guys have, do you guys do that independently or together? Are you making all those choices?

Speaker 3 We kind of do it together. She has a phone already, but she's not on social media.
So she's only allowed to talk to a couple of her friends from class.

Speaker 3 But, you know, the social media thing's not too far off. I mean, it is

Speaker 1 hopefully I can

Speaker 1 once she's on social media.

Speaker 3 We have no control over, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Right now, I feel like we're, you know, we have, we can kind of contain this and we can still handle this the right way and, you know, do everything as best as we can.

Speaker 3 But yeah, the older she gets, the more we lose grip on some of that control that we have.

Speaker 3 I think that's a good point to make because we have had a lot of conversations lately about how she's getting older. She's growing up.
So maybe that could be the way that I approach the subject.

Speaker 1 And again, I don't think you haven't done anything wrong to like tell him that like this other woman has like, you know, reached out to you via social media and like she's kept her distance.

Speaker 1 She's been respectful of the fact that like I wasn't ready to tell her, but she is interested in our daughters having a relationship. It hasn't happened yet, but someday it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 And I can't stop this woman from telling her daughter that she has a sister. And when that happens, I'm going to tell her and let, and I, but I hope you do.

Speaker 1 But if you, if you don't want to, I'm going to have to because I don't want to be put in that position.

Speaker 1 I mean, if his ex-wife, if his wife doesn't know, like, this is, you know, to your point, which is why you call, like, this is, this is the time, the time bomb's ticking. It's just a matter of when.

Speaker 1 Right. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 But the good news is there's an easy way for you to relay this without you being the bad guy, without him blaming you.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're starting something you don't need to start.

Speaker 3 I know, and I hate that. I hate that that's, that's how I feel.
I really feel it's like I'm struggling with, I know this is the right thing.

Speaker 3 There is no other option but to tell her, but I do feel like I'm the one that's like going to cause a problem. And I didn't, I had nothing to do with this.

Speaker 3 I didn't, I didn't do this, you know, but I'm, I feel like I'm carrying a lot of the mental burden.

Speaker 3 And I don't know if he even thinks about it at all, to be honest, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, hopefully this was helpful.

Speaker 3 It was. I thank you.
You've

Speaker 3 You've at least reinforced my thoughts and that it's got to happen.

Speaker 1 And mentally, you're kind of prepared for like how you might approach this when it does happen. My guess is the other mom will kind of activate this from happening.

Speaker 1 You'll get a call and she will like say that she wants to tell her daughter or that she's already told her daughter, to which point you at that point will have to then sit your ex-husband down and say,

Speaker 1 this is happening. I got a call.

Speaker 1 I can't stop her from doing it. This is honestly something I've been kind of mentally preparing for.

Speaker 1 But now that it's happening, I want to talk with you as co-parents about the best way we can do this. Like, I hope that you're willing to tell her because I think she should hear it from you.

Speaker 1 But if you're not going to, I'm going to have to because I don't, I'm not going to have her get a random message and I'm not going to lie to her.

Speaker 1 And in that case, I think you're in a good spot that like, you know, the other, the other mom's going to be his bad guy. You're not going to be his villain.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, so I think you have an opportunity to like, again, preserve the co-parenting relationship. I would just wait for her to bring it up because I'm guessing she will bring it up sooner than later.

Speaker 3 Not, I mean, you know, I agree with you because it's been a little bit. So I'm, I'm expecting it any day, to be honest.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. It might be any day.
It might be a couple of years from now, but it sounds like it's going to happen the next few years for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, when that happens, let us know.
I would love to love an update.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you guys. All right.
Appreciate you. All right.
Bye-bye.

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Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 3 Hi, Nick. My name's Sophie.
I'm 33,

Speaker 3 and I started dating a guy that told me he loved me on the second date, and I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 Did you say it all?

Speaker 3 Backstory. No, I didn't.
I said, why would you say that?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Give me the backstory.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So important, I guess, backstory is that I just got out. I just actually just got divorced earlier this year.
I was in that relationship for 10 years.

Speaker 3 It was

Speaker 3 emotionally abusive, kind of it, there was a, you know, a lot to it. I'm much better off now.
I was anxious to get back into dating because I never really dated in my 20s.

Speaker 3 I went right from college into this relationship.

Speaker 3 And so over the summer, I was just having fun, like not taking anything too seriously, really trying to learn more about myself through dating and like what I like, what I don't like.

Speaker 3 And so I met this guy on one of the apps. We talked for like a little bit off and on before like we finally set a first date.

Speaker 3 And when we did, the first date was awesome like instant chemistry great eye contact we aligned on like a lot of the same like core values things like that um we ended up hanging out three times within that first week of meeting each other and yeah the second the second date is when he said he loved me and how did he say it like set the stage we were kissing and he pulled away and said i love you and i said like why would you say that okay it wasn't like i think i love you it was like i love you it was like an earnest moment

Speaker 1 how old is he and he's 29

Speaker 3 and i'm 33

Speaker 3 and he also is um divorced like within the past year and he has a son that's like a year old okay

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 yeah so and we had talked about what was his response to you saying why'd you say that

Speaker 3 I think he kind of was like, oh shit. Like, I don't remember exactly what he said, but

Speaker 3 he was like, I know this is crazy. And I was just like, yeah.

Speaker 3 And it freaked me out a little bit, not because he said it, but because it didn't freak me out that he said it.

Speaker 3 I'd be lying if I said, like, I didn't feel like

Speaker 3 the feelings were very different with him than any of the other guys that I've dated or even like how I felt about my ex in the past. Like it was,

Speaker 3 there was genuine feelings there that was like, oh oh shit, this could turn into something. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 we had talked about expectations like up front, I think even before the first date, because he had told me like about being married and his son and everything before we met.

Speaker 3 And my answer like all along has just been, you know, I am dating. I'm trying to be like genuine in how I'm dating, but I'm also not looking to rush into anything serious.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 3 you know, he kind of felt the same way.

Speaker 3 But then obviously, you know, with him him and feeling like this could be some real feelings there and him having a son, like there is an added seriousness to it where I don't want to waste his time.

Speaker 3 You know, I don't want him to waste my time.

Speaker 3 But anyway, so, you know, that happened. And I, my whole thought, and it was when I originally wrote it into you guys, was, I'm just going to take this day by day.
And I told him that.

Speaker 3 It was like, let's try not to rush this too much. Like, I'm not saying I love you back.
Like, and he didn't say it again after that. I think he was like, oh, shit.

Speaker 3 but it was like okay let's try to slow things down but we were seeing each other a lot like at least at least two times a week I would say

Speaker 3 and we were really um growing like the emotional connection like he opened up a lot about his previous relationship and why that didn't work um we were having a lot of like deep conversations about stuff and we were not we there was a lot of physical like sexual tension for sure but he was actually the one that said he didn't want to rush the physical part of it too much, that he didn't want this to be a hookup.

Speaker 3 He said multiple times, like, I don't want this to be a hookup. Um, and so that was great.
Weird as a 29-year-old to say that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, well, you know, he's been divorced and has a kid, so there's, you know, probably some little trauma there that he's working through. Um,

Speaker 1 did either of you acknowledge, I mean, other than you saying, why'd you say that? Like, what was the fallout? Did you guys come to some kind of understanding about him throwing that word around?

Speaker 3 We didn't really talk about it after that. Like we talked about, we were very open about how things were moving very fast.
And

Speaker 3 it was like we both acknowledged like this is crazy. Like he's like, I don't usually like fall like this.
And I was like, yeah, I definitely don't either. It seemed like he was operating at 100%.

Speaker 3 And I was like at maybe like a 50 or 60, but I was like starting to get to where he was.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
Yeah. You didn't really acknowledge it.
And

Speaker 1 you were kind of almost surprisingly on the same page, even though he actually said it, where you might not have actually said it, but you, you might have been feeling it.

Speaker 1 And therefore, you kind of went with it for a bit. Okay.
And then where are we now?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 he, um, he's very close with his family, which so am I. And so that was a huge thing for us.
And he had like opened up to his brother about, you know, seeing me and the feelings.

Speaker 3 And then his brother kind of like told his parents. And so like his brother really wanted to meet me.

Speaker 3 And so he said, and this was about like three weeks after we started dating, like, would you want to come meet my brother and my sister-in-law? And I was like, yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 And I, yeah, so I went and did that. And his mom ended up showing up at the house.
So I ended up meeting his mom and his brother and his sister-in-law.

Speaker 1 And I thought it went really well.

Speaker 3 And that night, so his work schedule is always crazy. And then obviously he has not primary custody of his son, but he is more custody than his ex.

Speaker 3 So like us having time to actually spend the night together, you inform me, but this was one time where it was like, okay, this is like the first opportunity.

Speaker 3 So we did spend the night together after I met his family.

Speaker 3 And I felt comfortable to do that because it felt like things were progressing at a really good speed or a good, not a good speed, but like at a.

Speaker 3 level I was comfortable with, I guess, at this point.

Speaker 3 So like that next morning, when he gets like the vibe felt off, and maybe it's like a women's intuition or what, but like, right away, usually, he's always like, Hey, like, I'm off this day.

Speaker 3 Like, can I see you Wednesday? Like, he's always very definitive about the plans. That morning, um, I knew he was going to a wedding.
He was the best man in a wedding that weekend.

Speaker 3 And so I probably wouldn't see him all weekend. Um, and I was just like, hey, like, when's the next time we can get together?

Speaker 3 And he was like, oh, as soon as possible, I'll let you know, which was weird for him, but I was trying not to think too much into it.

Speaker 3 Didn't hear from him a ton that weekend, but again, like, I knew he was busy with the wedding. Texting went back to normal that like following week.

Speaker 3 And then we were supposed to hang out Thursday night. And he texted me like an hour before and was like, would you be mad if I bailed on hanging out tonight?

Speaker 3 Like I have friends in town I haven't seen in a really long time and I like want to see them.

Speaker 3 And I had had like a shitty week and he had known that. And so I was kind of like, I just said like,

Speaker 3 yeah, I mean, you've already made up your mind. Like, I'm not going to convince you to not hang out with your friends, hang out with me.

Speaker 3 I think it's weird that you wouldn't bring me, but that's fine too. I didn't say that.

Speaker 3 I just said, like, it's been a shitty week.

Speaker 1 Why is it weird?

Speaker 1 If they are friends, he hasn't seen it in a long time and he just wants to catch up with his buddies. And he doesn't.
And again, I don't know if this is true or some bullshit, but. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he just genuinely wants to like catch up with his buddies and not have not have it be a hangout that's centered around, hey, come meet this new girl I'm dating.

Speaker 1 Why would that be weird?

Speaker 3 No, I think that is normal.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Like, I don't need to, yeah, if he wants to.

Speaker 1 So we do acknowledge that, well, maybe it's bullshit. Yeah.
There's a world where it was a genuine

Speaker 1 reason. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 So he did that. Like, I didn't really hear from him for a couple of days.
Like, the communication just totally changed since me meeting his family and then him spending the night.

Speaker 3 Like it, he was always texting me and then it kind of went to nothing.

Speaker 1 So where are we, where are we now today?

Speaker 3 Yeah. So I had texted him about a week ago and said, like, hey, just straight up, like, I've noticed that you've pulled back.
If you don't have the time or the energy to do this, that's fine.

Speaker 3 Like, I am still interested in you, but I need consistency is what I said.

Speaker 3 And he said,

Speaker 3 he apologized and said, I've been really busy. And he acknowledged the fact that he moved too fast and he basically freaked himself out and he shut his feelings off.

Speaker 3 And he was like, but I am still interested in you. And he said that like multiple times because I was like, are you sure? Because like, I'm giving you an easy out here.
And it doesn't seem like you.

Speaker 3 want this. And he was like, no, I do.

Speaker 1 So what was the last thing you heard from him?

Speaker 3 So he texted me like a couple of days after that, like like trying to be consistent.

Speaker 3 And then I hadn't heard, then didn't text me for another couple of days, which again, like, that's fine. I knew he was going out of town last weekend.

Speaker 3 And so I had texted him earlier in the week and was like, I'd like to see you this week before you go out of town.

Speaker 3 And his response was just like really non-committal, like, I'll try, but, you know, this, that. And I knew that that's a no.

Speaker 3 So I haven't texted him since that.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And so I'm telling myself now that like, I should just let this go, but it's just crazy that it was such a high to like all of a sudden the rug being like pulled out from under me.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, I mean, I get how you feel.
It's not that crazy that two people coming out of a divorce found some instinct chemistry, got caught up in the excitement of feeling something positive.

Speaker 1 when it comes to a relationship.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 And that one

Speaker 1 or both kind of like backfired.

Speaker 1 You know, the introducing you to his family is interesting in the sense that like, from your point of view, it's, there seemed to be a direct correlation between the change in his behavior and that.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 Because I've overthought like, did I do something wrong? Like, did they hate me? Did they?

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, listen, I, you know,

Speaker 1 unless it's, unless you know.

Speaker 1 That you definitely did something wrong, like you got drunk and embarrassed yourself or whatever.

Speaker 3 No, that was good.

Speaker 1 Right? Then

Speaker 1 you did nothing wrong. Now, whether they didn't like you for him or not, who knows?

Speaker 1 But there's a lot of opinionated family members out there with people who identify as a family that's really close that quite honestly, maybe sometimes a little overstep and maybe are a little too close when it comes to like inserting themselves.

Speaker 1 and the relationships of their, you know, brother, sister, son, daughter, or whatever. Which, if that's the case, this is a huge red flag, period.

Speaker 1 So it's not meant for you to be in your head about or feeling like you did something wrong. You know, like, again,

Speaker 1 you have the, they have the right for you not to be their cup of tea.

Speaker 1 But as long as you are yourself and you handled yourself the way you would normally want to handle yourself, then you should have like no regrets about, you shouldn't question how you carried yourself, right?

Speaker 1 Because like you certainly wouldn't want to come in and meet someone's family and put on a performance right for the sake of being liked only to like have to continue to put on this performance for the rest of your relationship like you know there's there's being respectful around someone's parents like hey my parents are like pretty conservative or whatever it is and then you just kind of like you know you don't have to like play a character but you can just like be respectful right right um

Speaker 3 and the feedback like the feedback I got from him basically like when we left

Speaker 3 after that was he said like yeah, like, my brother and sister-in-law both just said, like, you were really real. Like, they liked you because you were just a genuine person.

Speaker 3 And so, I was like, well, that's great. Like, that's the best feedback you could get.

Speaker 1 Also, maybe they really liked you, and that's what spooked them.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like, oh, you know, oh, that was.

Speaker 3 Because they were basically saying, I should have come on this trip that he was on last weekend. They were like, oh, you should come.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just as believable that, like, you know, one,

Speaker 1 it just could be a coincidence, the timing. But I guess the point is that really, that's a waste of your energy trying to decide

Speaker 1 that element to it. Right.
But listen, backtracking to how the story began and him saying he loved you on the second date, he clearly was just the guy who got caught up in his feelings, right? Like,

Speaker 1 you know, when someone says, I love you on the second date, right? Like anyone, you know, Before we got into, you know, therapizing ourselves online and

Speaker 1 all this this shit that we do. There was a world

Speaker 1 where people were like, I knew this the moment I saw him. And it wasn't crazy for someone to, on a first date, being, I love you, and then propose on the third date.

Speaker 1 And then it would work out, you know,

Speaker 1 it was very more of an old school approach, you know. And is that love? I mean, you know, love is subjective, right? You know, like he clearly was excited about you.

Speaker 1 He felt something different, you know, maybe something refreshing, you know, because again, you know, he was coming out of a divorce, right? So, like, it's,

Speaker 1 it's more that it's not like, oh my God, you know, like, I can't believe you said that. Like, you guys were excited about each other.

Speaker 3 It didn't freak me out. Like, it didn't, it freaked me out more that I wasn't freaked out by him saying that.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 But I guess it's like, you know, like to kind of what happened, it's just, it's also just kind of recognizing what I would have liked for you to do.

Speaker 1 Like what you, what, you know, hearing your whole story, the, I only have one note for you.

Speaker 1 Okay, and that is regardless of the fact that it didn't freak you out I would have loved for you two to like have an adult conversation and been like all right Let's just all right cards are on the table You just said some crazy shit.

Speaker 1 You could have had some fun with it like and like I don't deny that I'm lovable after the second date and to be totally honest It doesn't even freak me out

Speaker 1 That you said that but like let's just take a step back and let's let's just recognize that like we're both coming out of serious relationship relationship and it seems like we're both excited about this but let's just keep it real for a hot second and realize that like what we're feeling while valid and real are just like the early stages of feelings and we have a lot to learn about each other so let's give ourselves a break

Speaker 1 and yeah you know just let's be excited about that we're excited but also let's like let's let's just like acknowledge that like and it's okay for us to be excited and it's it's honestly like thanks for saying that.

Speaker 1 Thanks for being open. Like, you know, there's a way to thread the needle to not make someone feel stupid for saying something crazy, but also, like, as two adults, acknowledging that, like,

Speaker 1 maybe we need to, like, you know, pump, pump, pump, pump the brakes, right? Uh, the same way he wanted to, like, take things slow physically, you know, that was an adult conversation.

Speaker 1 The fact that you guys just kind of like kind of pretended he didn't say it, but like,

Speaker 3 you know, um that that's really my only note yeah and i was trying to like like he would say like i i really like you and i would say like well what do you like about me and like i was

Speaker 3 i listen to your podcast a lot so i was just trying to uh practice what you preach and it sounded like sometimes so it did come up a couple times like he would open up with things with his ex and he said like you know, I don't usually like talk to people about this stuff.

Speaker 3 And I was like, well, I'm glad that you feel comfortable talking to me about it. But it almost got to the point sometimes where I didn't want to play therapist to him either.

Speaker 3 And I said to him at one point, I was like, Hey, like, I really like that you talk to me and you feel comfortable talking to me about this, but I also like it when we're like flirty and fun and just, you know,

Speaker 3 too.

Speaker 1 And so, did he talk to you about his ex more than you talk to him about yours?

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 3 yes, yeah, so I mean, the fact that he's still the fact that he felt comfortable talking to you about his ex isn't is actually not a good sign you know like he's just not over it right he's still yeah well because i think because like she has to be involved because of the child okay you know like like my ex and i we don't have kids so like i don't we don't well how what did he talk about um it would just be like little thing like if if he had to see her for like a drop-off pickup scenario like she would say things that were like triggering to him like she would say like oh he you know the kid has like a fever why didn't you notice that and he was like i was literally with him all day like i didn't i i didn't notice it.

Speaker 3 I would have, you know, he was acting fine, like, things like that. It would just be like little,

Speaker 3 little things.

Speaker 1 But you think that's a, yeah, I guess maybe that's, yeah, it was more like a, how's your day going?

Speaker 3 Like, oh, I'm dealing with this. Like, she's just being ridiculous.
And it's, and he wouldn't dig into it too much, I would say. It was like in passing.
Um, but yeah, he, he definitely talked more.

Speaker 3 But I was also like withholding a little bit of sharing my story with him just because I wanted to make sure that like things were good.

Speaker 3 And now I'm kind of glad, I guess, that I didn't, unless he thought I was putting walls up.

Speaker 1 Um, I mean, listen, um,

Speaker 1 I think for the time being, mentally, you're, you're, you need to be done, right?

Speaker 3 What if he reaches out?

Speaker 1 Like, um, I guess it really depends on what he says, it's not fair to you for his like actions to back up what he was saying before.

Speaker 3 Now, like, he hasn't done, he hasn't made any commitment to see, he literally hasn't seen me since he left that morning.

Speaker 1 If he reached back out, I would just, you know, you can answer, right?

Speaker 1 i'd be curious as to what he had to say if he if it was just like a hey i think you would have the right to say something to the effect of like listen like

Speaker 1 uh it's nice to hear from you but like you you you can't expect me to be okay

Speaker 1 with the way we started and the pace in which we were going leading all the way up to like meeting your family.

Speaker 1 And then I get that you got spooked and I and I totally get it, but like I've had to readjust to this pace that you've dictated. And then you kind of dropped off the face of the earth.

Speaker 1 And like, now, like, I don't like feeling like I'm in limbo, you know, like, yeah, people who are dating can take it slow and still have consistency.

Speaker 1 And you went from being more than consistent, you were like, you were, you know, it was fairly hot and heavy to the point where you introduced me to your family to this incredibly inconsistent.

Speaker 1 You go days without reaching out. Like, that's, and honestly, like, this kind of, I'm not down for that, you know?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I would communicate that because,

Speaker 1 you know, the hope is, if you communicate that, is that he, well, he just acknowledges it, obviously, apologized.

Speaker 1 But if there, if he wants to date you, then you have, you know, he has to be, he doesn't get to like dictate the pace. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you have the right to say, well, listen, if you want to date me, like, I want, I still want consistency.

Speaker 1 Whatever pace that we have, I don't want to be like wondering

Speaker 1 if I'm going to hear from you or not, or if it's okay if I text you, or, you know, it's, you know, and if you've listened to the show, it sounds like you have.

Speaker 1 It sounds like maybe you're not ready for something right now. Now, it's different when a guy says that for himself rather than someone else says that for him.

Speaker 1 When he says it, it's like, oh, get off the hook. I know, man, I'm not ready for a relationship right now.

Speaker 1 When a girl says, you're, it doesn't sound like you're ready for something that I'm looking for, it's a bit of a, it's like, yeah, ego hit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I would just, yeah, I would be very like matter of fact and just, you know, be like, yeah, it's just like, I think you, I think you got caught up in things a little bit.

Speaker 1 And maybe you're not ready for something right now. In fact, I would say that regardless of what he says.
Well, I mean,

Speaker 1 yeah, if he doesn't reach out, I mean, he might like never text me again.

Speaker 3 He might not.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if that's the case, I guess.

Speaker 3 but

Speaker 1 yeah it sucks in the you know i don't know i i would argue not i mean listen it does it suck compared to um the pace that it was going when you thought maybe you had met someone really fast sure i mean like yeah of course but would it suck more than him one day calling you up and saying, hey, I changed my mind or I met someone else.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 there's no favorite way of having someone reject you. And so, yeah, I mean, I would also argue that it's better off finding out now

Speaker 1 than six months from now, which could easily have happened. He could, you guys could have been hot and heavy and six months in, he could have been like, whoa, I'm not ready for this.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But all the, you know, but the thing you have to do is just like not internalize and overread into

Speaker 1 how intense it was, as if that had meaning behind it or if it meant something. Or, you know, again,

Speaker 1 everything I'm hearing makes a lot of sense, right? Like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 And honestly, like, I'm in a better place now than I was two weeks ago with it because I like historically in my past relationship, have been like a really anxious, attached person.

Speaker 3 And I felt like I thought I got over it. I think I was just over that relationship.
So I wasn't as anxiously attached.

Speaker 3 But now with this guy, it was like when he was pulling back, like I was, I all of a sudden was like seeking that validation from him and I was recognizing it and being like trying to check myself on it and so if anything it showed me that like I still have stuff to work on for myself too um

Speaker 3 but yeah I just like I guess now you know whatever ends up happening with this like if I don't ever hear from him again like getting back into the dating scene I feel like I'm good.

Speaker 3 I'm good on like a first or second date. Like I'm confident enough in myself, like I can be myself.

Speaker 3 I know if I like someone or or not, like someone, but then when it gets to that point where it's like, okay, I do like you, like into that like

Speaker 3 two to four week time period or whatnot,

Speaker 3 how do I keep myself, I guess, from because like I was really starting to like this guy a lot, and maybe it's because of how like hot and heavy he was.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 how do I regulate my own emotions that like I'm not falling too quickly, or maybe that won't happen with someone that goes at a normal pace?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it's hard to say.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, the best, I mean, to me, it's just like you, the best, best scenario for, I think, anyone is two people who can be excited, but have the self-awareness to like temper their excitement with the self-awareness to know that there's still a lot to learn.

Speaker 1 Right. But like, you know, how often does that happen in actual practice? Because like, you know, once we get triggered emotionally,

Speaker 1 it's hard to be that level-headed, you know? Right.

Speaker 1 I guess my point is

Speaker 1 like,

Speaker 1 this wasn't that costly of an experience for you. You know, nothing really happened.
I mean, I don't know. Do you agree? Like, was this like.

Speaker 3 I mean, like, it, it messed with me for a bit, but

Speaker 1 a couple weeks, right? Like, you seem like you're okay. I'm not saying it was fun.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying you didn't feel rejected, but like, do you have to make meaningful changes in your life as a result of this happening? Did you really do anything wrong?

Speaker 1 Again, like, sure, I have one note for you, which is like, yeah, maybe you guys could have not have just swept over the fact that he like said he loved you on the second date and you were kind of like, you know what?

Speaker 1 Don't hate it.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 1 You know, like you could, you could have been a little bit more,

Speaker 1 you could have addressed the elephant in the room a little bit better. That being said, like, you know, like nothing crazy that happened.
It's not the first time someone got excited and pulled back.

Speaker 1 Both of you are coming out of a very challenging divorces, you know, which divorce in general is just challenging. So there's a,

Speaker 1 you guys are figuring yourselves out.

Speaker 1 And with that, you know, like, so all things being equal, honestly, like, this was not that costly to the point where I don't think you, you need to be that hard on yourself to be like, I really, okay, I really need to change my approach.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if you do.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, I mean, I guess that's reassuring. Yeah, because like I said, I've never dated.
So I feel like I I was kind of like winging this a little bit going into it.

Speaker 3 And I think it probably hurt the most just because it was like the first time I had was catching real feelings for someone that, you know, since my ex.

Speaker 3 But then like, how do I, so I like, even while I was dating this guy, I was still talking to other people.

Speaker 3 Like I wasn't going on dates with other people, but I was like open to meeting other people and trying not to shut myself off.

Speaker 3 And now like since this, I have been going on like first dates again or like meeting new people and like doing a lot of comparing in my head because it was like so instant with this last guy like how do I cut that off basically

Speaker 1 I don't know if you cut it off but I think you have to be open to

Speaker 1 it being wrong I guess is what I'm saying where like you don't need you know like again what you're if I'm hearing you right like you're you're it's like that you know you felt something instantly with that guy which is fun yeah and maybe you'll find it again but like be open to going on a second or third date with someone you had, like, you know, an okay time with.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 So, like, short of that, you know, like, I would, yeah, like, it's like, if, if you're only going on dates, waiting, you know, for that, like, first day, that's like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 Yeah, be a little bit more open. If you are lucky enough to feel that again, just also know that, like, that's not very reliable, you know, because it's chemistry, right?

Speaker 1 And also, like, it's also, again, it's, it also is a product of like a trigger, right? You know, you know, the excitement, the, you know,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 so it's very hard to trust anyways.

Speaker 1 I think all in all, you're, you're doing just fine.

Speaker 3 Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 And I, you know, I guess my, probably my best advice to you is like, don't diminish your ability to know how to date. No one's great at it.

Speaker 1 Even people who've been dating for 10 years feel lost, right? Just like, you, you're fine. You got, you got this.

Speaker 1 And like, you clearly know, you know, you already met a guy fairly early outside of your divorce where you felt something. So that's actually a positive sign.

Speaker 1 It tells me that like you're open to meeting someone. You're not still like emotionally connected to your past relationship and projecting that on, you know.
So there's a, there's a lot of good here.

Speaker 1 And then as far as this guy goes, like, yeah, I mean, you know, if the next time you guy you meet who's two months removed from a serious relationship, you know, tread lightly.

Speaker 3 So you agree? I shouldn't reach out. I'm doing the right thing.

Speaker 1 You definitely shouldn't reach out. Okay, good.

Speaker 3 I know that when I'm thinking logically, but if I get caught up in a little bit of a spiral,

Speaker 3 I don't want to do that in a moment of time.

Speaker 1 He needs, like, yeah, I mean, like, listen, the fact that as it stands now, he has reiterated several times that he still is interested in you, but he has drastically changed the cadence in which he's reached out and having it being unpredictable and sporadic compared to how he treated you in the past is really selfish of him.

Speaker 1 I don't think you should be like chill about that or just sitting around waiting for him to call. So if he does reach out, you know, he might reach out just to like

Speaker 1 out of guilt and just put a bum line out to say, hey, no, you haven't heard from me in a while. And like, I'm just, I don't know.
Like, I just don't think I'm ready for a relationship right now.

Speaker 1 Like, that one, that's possible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If he does that, you'd be like, no,

Speaker 1 I figured, but thanks for the call.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I wouldn't, you know, at that point, you're going to have to try to contain yourself from being his therapist and saying something mean.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
My like general thought was just like kill him with maturity when I can, because I know he's not used to that, like in his previous relationship.

Speaker 1 And I'm a little bit older.

Speaker 3 So it's like, and I know I've done a lot of work on myself, but yeah, I don't want to play therapist.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would just be like, it's all good. You know, thanks for that thanks for the call.
No. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But i think you're doing okay thank you i appreciate that that's like high praise country i like i said i listen to your podcast i'm like an og fan from like bachelor days so this is cool just to well thanks for the call um sorry you went through your divorce and i'm glad you're out of it and i almost called in honestly so many times to ask about my divorce but that relationship was so like manipulative and messed up i was always so paranoid that he'd like somehow figure out it was me and like

Speaker 1 you're out now and i think the biggest thing is just stay positive give yourself grace keep putting yourself out there.

Speaker 1 I think the worst thing any of us can do dating is just to give up and be pessimistic, be pessimistic, and just, you'll figure it out.

Speaker 3 Awesome. Well, thanks, Nick.
I really appreciate it. Take care.
All right. Thank you too.

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How's it going?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you? Good.
What's your name?

Speaker 3 I'm Lexi, and I'm 33 years old.

Speaker 1 How can I help, Lexi?

Speaker 3 I'm just wondering if I'm dealing with a 41-year-old fuckboy.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, what makes you wonder?

Speaker 3 So I met him at the beginning of August. I went out with some friends and he kind of pursued me that night.

Speaker 3 And then he's been really consistent ever since, but sometimes he'll disappear on like Saturdays, like completely lose contact.

Speaker 3 I also, we live like in the same neighborhood, so I did see him with another girl.

Speaker 3 When I ask him straight up, if he has like a girlfriend or if he's, he, he says no, like, I don't know if he saw me, so I don't know, but

Speaker 3 that's kind of what I'm dealing with. I did do some sleuthing too.
And

Speaker 3 a girl came up to me, like came up for like suggested for you. And I clicked on it and she's private, but she has a threads account.
And that's not private.

Speaker 3 And there's some pictures on there back from like July, early July of him.

Speaker 1 With him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. So if it's not his girlfriend, it's definitely someone he's been like consistently hanging out with.
You've asked him if he's got a girlfriend?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 And he said it was what?

Speaker 3 He says no.

Speaker 1 What was it? Was there a follow-up question there?

Speaker 3 No, not really. I also like, it's early.
So I like, I don't care, I don't feel like he really owes me anything yet.

Speaker 3 I feel like we should have that conversation as well.

Speaker 1 How many times have you hung out?

Speaker 3 Since I met him, we hung out. We hang out like twice a week.

Speaker 1 Twice a week.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
How long has that been?

Speaker 3 It's almost two months.

Speaker 1 Okay. And you're hooking up? Yeah.
Okay. So why, why, why don't you think he owes you anything?

Speaker 3 That's a good question. I don't, I just don't know.
Like, I feel like he is very, like, plays it hot and cold. And like, I can't really tell what he wants, but also I

Speaker 3 I mean, I like hanging out with him. I feel like I haven't had like this instant like chemistry with someone like this in a long time.

Speaker 1 And are you just looking looking for something casual right now? Are you, are you dating with the intention of meeting someone?

Speaker 3 I haven't dated and I was in like a really abusive relationship and I haven't dated anyone in like four years. And so I randomly went out.

Speaker 3 Like I don't even go outside most of the time, but I went out this one night and I met him and now I'm in this situation. So

Speaker 3 I mean, I would like it to be more, but I, I don't really like, I can't read him. Like it's just really hard.

Speaker 1 to get out. Okay.
Well, I think you should stop trying to read him. Okay.
Right. I think you should get out more.
I'm sorry that you were in a relationship like the one that you were in.

Speaker 1 I'm glad you're out of it. Like, are you being facetious? Are you like, you really aren't ever going out?

Speaker 3 No, I really don't go out. Like, I'm such a homebody.

Speaker 1 Okay. Love being a homebody.
I'm a homebody, too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Be a homebody when you found your person, so to speak. Yeah.
I mean, these are prime years for you. I think you should take advantage, so to speak.

Speaker 1 If you are open and interested to like, what do you want for yourself romantically or as far as like a relationship or or a family if anything yeah i mean for me i don't know that i ever want to like need to get married but i would like to like live with someone and have kids if that was in the cards and what's the difference between needing to get married and and wanting to get married

Speaker 1 um i mean i just don't think i like i've never really pictured myself of having like a big wedding or anything like that like i don't yeah who cares about that's that's that's material stuff but like how for for yourself like you're you're only 33 right now so you're relatively young i mean mean you're incredibly young in the grand scheme of things but like

Speaker 1 these are prime years right and and and dating definitely only only gets harder um as we get older so uh forgetting about what you materialistically want or don't want for yourself but like do you hope to have someone to be a homebody with yes

Speaker 1 um great then i think you should be

Speaker 1 way more intentional and way more outgoing in the the pursuit of finding that. Because, I mean, you know, nowadays, I, I really like,

Speaker 1 and I say this with the benefit of hindsight. And I certainly didn't meet Natalie until like I was older than you.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you want, you know, the biological clock, that is a thing that, you know, do you want kids?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
Right.

Speaker 1 Then, and listen, I say that, and again, like, I, you know, there's always a fine line between like, But I, you know, if people are open to having a family and having kids, however that looks, I could not emphasize how much better than it is than anything else I've ever had in my life and how great it is.

Speaker 1 And listen, a family can be made

Speaker 1 all sorts of different ways.

Speaker 1 There's no right way of doing things or wrong way

Speaker 1 per se, but like,

Speaker 1 don't sit on the sidelines during these great years that you have, right? And the fact that you went out this one time

Speaker 1 in four years and met anyone is a great sign that

Speaker 1 you're in a good spot.

Speaker 1 But all the more reason, too, it's just like you are certainly limited in your practice and experience dating since your past relationship and don't know what happened in the last relationship or why it went down the path that it did.

Speaker 1 But the way you're speaking about this guy, in my opinion, is way too passive and way too understanding and lacks an intention on your part of you doing this for yourself. Right.
Right. And unless

Speaker 1 what's that? Yeah, okay, great. That's why I call it.

Speaker 1 And unless you're just like certain that like you're just looking for a good time casually, then which is not what you're looking for. You know,

Speaker 1 you are sitting around waiting, you know, so like. And the fact that you are sleuthing and taking the time to find out means you care, which is okay.

Speaker 1 And I think it's like, let's just, let's just do ourselves the favor of just recognizing when we care.

Speaker 1 Sometimes we like to pretend we don't care because we don't want to be too invested and things like that. It's okay to care.
It's better off knowing.

Speaker 1 It's better off admitting because then we're way more in control of our emotions when we do care rather than just pretending that we don't even care.

Speaker 1 And then we just end up lying to ourselves and doing crazy shit. And then all of a sudden we like realize we care when it's far too late.

Speaker 1 So if you are liking this guy and interested in this guy, he does owe you something.

Speaker 1 He's expecting a lot of your time twice a week.

Speaker 1 You guys are being physically intimate. That alone, he owes you honesty, he owes you safety

Speaker 1 and things like that. Certainly, you haven't defined the relationship and things like that, but like, you know, if he's dating other women, you have a right to know.

Speaker 1 More than anything, I just want you to know that, that you, you, you checking in and having expectations of him, you have you have a right to have an expectation of him, and he does owe you something more than anything.

Speaker 1 Did he seem defensive when you asked if you had a girlfriend? Did he was he curious as to why you asked?

Speaker 3 No, he didn't, he just like straight up was no, said no.

Speaker 1 Huh, and then is that before or after you found these photos of him and this girl from July?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 the pictures came after because you saw him in, you saw him out.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like out on a Saturday night?

Speaker 3 No, it was like during the day I was like walking the trail like behind my apartment.

Speaker 1 What was he doing?

Speaker 3 Walking with her, but I don't think he saw me.

Speaker 1 I think you just asked him.

Speaker 1 Okay. How long ago did you see him?

Speaker 3 That was like very like recent or like very soon after we started talking.

Speaker 3 And then like after like more recently, he's been like hanging out with me more, talking to me more. So I don't, I would like, and then I asked about if he had a girlfriend and he said no.

Speaker 3 So I was like, maybe he made a decision.

Speaker 3 Or, I mean, I think he's still talking to other people, but he seems kind of like that kind of guy.

Speaker 1 How do you, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 3 He just like seems like a fuckboy kind of.

Speaker 1 It probably is, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 What would I do if I were you? I would, yeah. I think that, yeah, I think, just be honest, right?

Speaker 1 I think next time you hang out and you just say, hey, listen, I, okay, like, I just have a confession to make. I didn't bring it up because honestly, I felt weird.

Speaker 1 And, you know, honestly, like, you know, I'm just be vulnerable. I'm new to this dating thing, whatever.
I don't know how much you guys have talked about past relationships. I hope a little bit.

Speaker 1 So he knows a little bit about your background. And you're just like, and you just say something like, listen, I just didn't know.
I don't know. I didn't want to be nosy.

Speaker 1 But like, I saw you, like, just don't, don't lie about when you saw him. But like, you know, back in whatever, a few weeks ago, I saw you with a girl.

Speaker 1 And then, like, I, it kind of looked like you were on a date. But obviously, like, since we're like not anything official, like, I, but hey, I'm a human being, so I was curious.

Speaker 1 And then I, you know, I looked online, same girl you guys were hanging out since July. So, anyways, yeah, I saw you with a girl, and who is she to you? Yeah.
I, that's a fair question.

Speaker 1 If he can't answer that, then, you know, and also like, trust your instincts.

Speaker 1 If, If you think he's giving fuckboy and you can't ask these fair questions without him getting too defensive, then he's not your guy. Right.
You know?

Speaker 3 I just feel like how long, like, does a guy want to do this for? Like, fuck around?

Speaker 1 I mean, he's. As long as you let him.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Especially a 41-year-old who, like, you know.
What's his relationship? What do you mean with just me?

Speaker 3 I mean, like, in general, like, when does it get old?

Speaker 1 It's a tough question. What's his his relationship past?

Speaker 3 Like, what's his what's what's he's been engaged before?

Speaker 5 He's been engaged.

Speaker 1 Okay. How long ago is that?

Speaker 3 I want to say 2022.

Speaker 1 So a long time.

Speaker 1 Has he had any serious, meaningful relationship since then?

Speaker 3 Only if this, if he's in a relationship with this girl this long.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I think, especially for men, I don't know how it is for women, but I can only speak for myself.

Speaker 1 Is that like, you know, he's a good-looking guy who you've determined like he kind of like gets plenty of attention.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it probably never gets old to a certain degree.

Speaker 1 Do you know if he wants to have, have you talked about like kids or settling down with him?

Speaker 3 No, he says he wants kids, yeah. Okay.
He also like, this is more like weird, but like he did say like before, just like, let's have kids.

Speaker 1 Like literally. That's giving fuck boy.
That type of guy is going to require a woman who who kind of puts him in his place. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, when I met Natalie, right, and you know, we've all, you've guys, everyone who's listened to the show has heard the story a bunch of different ways and a bunch of different times, but it took her being confident in what she thought we were.

Speaker 1 Certainly didn't like close the deal right away, but it just came, yeah, it was this someone who was like, Hey, I think we should do this, and

Speaker 1 and there's a level of assertiveness that she had in a confidence and the willingness to walk away, right?

Speaker 1 So certainly he's definitely used to women getting in line, so to speak, you know, like some of the rhetoric you're conveying, which is like, I don't know, he's used to like, you know, he just kind of dates around and he's kind of given this and I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Like you're just assuming he's a fuckboy and you're assuming that he's like so laissez-faire that like it's not.

Speaker 1 It's like you're giving him the benefit of the doubt while acknowledging he is, you know, I don't know. It's like this weird,

Speaker 1 you're almost admitting defeat in a way. So you accept his behavior.

Speaker 3 That also, I feel like, because it's been so long since I've like met someone that I'm actually interested in, that I'm like, I also don't want to like it to end, which I know is taught, like, that's bad.

Speaker 1 But. Yeah.
I mean, other than him being a good lay and a good time, like, how, what, what are you trying to hold on to?

Speaker 3 I feel like we have, like, we get along really well. It feels like comfortable, but yeah, no, I get it.
It could just be like the first guy that I've.

Speaker 1 like met. You know, if he's hot and charismatic and good in bed, I mean, what's not to like? I mean, but, you know, as far as that goes.
But he's potentially just wasting your time.

Speaker 1 And that's that to that point,

Speaker 1 that's the part you should protect and you should preserve and you should like allow it for you to get a little frustrating.

Speaker 1 And so, I mean, I guess there's a world where you don't necessarily have to bring up this other girl where it's just more like, hey, listen, like, you have the right to ask for more.

Speaker 1 So it is his is his cadence increasing? Like, are you seeing more and more of each other?

Speaker 3 Yeah, like, usually, like, in the beginning, like, he kind of went like silent silent on the weekends, but like last Saturday, he hung out with me.

Speaker 3 He wanted to hang out yesterday, but I knew I was getting on this call, so I wanted to wait. So I, he's supposed to, we're supposed to hang out tonight when he gets done work.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, I just wanted to like talk to you first.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's a good sign, you know, like I'm a, my, I'm a big believer in like things need to progress, right?

Speaker 1 Like, they shouldn't, unless you're like defined a relationship, it would like for if you said, hey, listen, like, we hang out twice a week. It's always twice a week.
That never changes.

Speaker 1 Then my response would be like, all right, he's like, basically, fit you in to his roster

Speaker 1 yeah the fact that it's steadily increasing is is a sign that like he's enjoying more of your company and wants more of your time right yeah

Speaker 1 which gives you the permission to to check in

Speaker 1 and i think if you want to and i think you should want to

Speaker 1 i think now would be a good time to check in and say that like hey i just want to check in you know like i i do like where this is going and you know yeah and so i wanted to check in.

Speaker 1 I want more of this. You know, I don't know.
You have to be, have you, like, what have you talked about? Have you admitted you like him?

Speaker 3 What have we talked about?

Speaker 1 No, like, but what have you communicated to him about your feelings about what you guys have?

Speaker 3 Yeah, just that, like, I like hanging out with him and I like him. He knows I'm not talking to anyone else.

Speaker 1 So maybe you check in with like, hey, I just want to check in. Like, are you

Speaker 1 dating anyone else? Are you talking to other girls? Are you still going on dates?

Speaker 1 Because I'm not, and I don't want to. And honestly, like, you know, it's been six weeks.

Speaker 1 So, like, you're, you, you're in a position as a 41-year-old man to, to, to kind of like calm out on a little bit of Peter Pan behavior. It's just like, yeah.
And you can be like, listen, like,

Speaker 1 after six weeks, you either like me or you don't. You're 41.

Speaker 1 Like, you know whether you like or you don't like, or you should, you know, you can be a little snotty that way in a playful way, but you can be a little like, bro, you're 41. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, this isn't your first rodeo. You, you can't decide whether you want to date other women.
You're still, you're still playing the field. Like, come on, you know?

Speaker 3 I know. I feel like I have all like the snark in my head.
And like, like before, and then when I like get in front of him, I like.

Speaker 1 Well, because you have to be, you know, you have to be willing to not get the answer you want and have it end. Yeah.
You have to get over that hurdle.

Speaker 1 You have to remind yourself that you never went out and then you, you went out once and you met a guy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, you know, and I'm not saying every time you're going to go out, you're going to meet someone you like, but I think you have to be willing to put yourself out there.

Speaker 1 And I think you have to, you have to check in. Like, you know, if you're sensing this as a 41-year-old fuckboy, then you really have to find out sooner than later.
Yeah. And you have to be willing

Speaker 1 to assert yourself. Yeah.
And be confident in your worth. This is none of the, what do you want? Or how do you feel about us?

Speaker 1 Or how do you feel about me?

Speaker 1 And it's okay if you don't, like, it just, you know, I'm not, it's fine, you know, like stop, don't give them permission to be a fuckboy.

Speaker 1 Cause a lot of times, I think in your, you know, in people in your shoes, if you assume they're a fuckboy, but you're afraid to stop the situationship or whatever the fuck you want to call whatever it is you are, you have a way of giving these people permission to continue it by by not wanting to sound crazy or not trying to be pushy or just like, hey, I'm just like, if it's so, you know, I hate to ask, but like, and it's okay if you are, but like, are you fucking other women?

Speaker 1 You know, like, but like, it's like you, you pretend to be okay with things that you know you're not. So don't pretend to be okay with things.

Speaker 1 You know, I would, if I were you, before you hang out with them next time, even if it's tonight, ask yourself, like, what am I, like, honestly, like, if, if I, if I had all the control, which you do as far as this relationship goes, what do I want from it?

Speaker 1 What am I okay with? What makes me uncomfortable? I would write it down, honestly.

Speaker 1 And I would like really, you know, be confident in those answers and knowing that whatever your answers are, they are the right answers because that's how you feel.

Speaker 1 And you definitely have the right to feel however you feel about this guy after six weeks of dating, hanging out multiple times a week and having sex.

Speaker 1 And then I would communicate that, you know, what do you want from it?

Speaker 1 And knowing that if you, if you're right about him being a 41-year-old fuckboy, he will probably be a little squirmish

Speaker 1 and be like, well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 And then that's when you really have to be strong and really be like, well, listen, I'm happy for you. And like, listen, if this is, I am confident what I want and this is what I want.

Speaker 1 And it's totally okay if you don't want this, but I know I do. So like, you need to figure out whether you can get on board or not is kind of the energy you need to bring.

Speaker 3 I can do that.

Speaker 1 Because that will be the only thing that makes a guy like him

Speaker 1 commit

Speaker 1 that you have to be worth it to him. And someone who's not confident that he should give up his freedom and his ability to do whatever he wants, it has to be someone who's like, I am a catch.

Speaker 1 You're stupid for not giving up all your options for me. And I don't know what your problem is.

Speaker 1 Like, that's the energy you want to bring. Don't say it like that, but you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Like, that's the confidence you want to bring to a guy who deep down feels pretty confident about, you know, not being alone. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I feel like that's going to be such a switch up because he's always like, you're so chill, which is probably a led with the wrong.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but every guy, listen, we all, as men, we all want chill, but we also want someone who's not so chill that they let us get away with things we know deep down we shouldn't get away with. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, hold you accountable. And honestly, because I remember when I first met Natalie, I said that too.
I'm like, oh, you're so cool and like, you know, like easygoing. And she was, and she is.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 but when she was ready to be like enough's enough

Speaker 1 like honestly it was a good con leading with chill is great yeah but showing that you can that you know how to stand up for yourself at the right time really matters with guys like him okay

Speaker 1 that's helpful okay do you feel good about going into the

Speaker 1 tonight

Speaker 1 yeah yeah I would honestly write what do you want out of like what are you what are you comfortable with what are you not comfortable with and I'm not saying he has to commit to a relationship right now, but you deserve more clarity than you're getting right now.

Speaker 1 And if I'm guessing you want more clarity than you have right now, yeah. Because you're not even 100% certain if this other girl is still in the picture.

Speaker 3 Right. I feel like I deserve at least the information to make a decision.

Speaker 1 Yeah. For me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I definitely want an update. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'll keep you updated.

Speaker 1 Okay. Was this helpful?

Speaker 3 Yeah, this is helpful. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I needed that confidence boost.

Speaker 1 I think I can do it. You can definitely do it.
And like if he's, he's just the guy. And again,

Speaker 1 you're like batting a thousand and going out. Yeah.
These are, these are great years you have. So don't don't sit on the sidelines right now.

Speaker 1 Get out there, be assertive, you know, and certainly take the timeouts when you need. Like if it doesn't work out with this guy and you put yourself out there, yeah, you're going to have bad dates.

Speaker 1 You're not going to keep batting a thousand, but like take breaks when you need, but keep putting yourself out there. Yeah.
All right.

Speaker 1 Good luck.

Speaker 1 Please keep me posted. I'm dying to find out about it.
Yeah, I will. All right.
Take care.

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