E1033 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Dark Secret

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Speaker 4 How's it going?

Speaker 5 Good. How are you?

Speaker 4 Good. What's your name?

Speaker 5 I'm Ashley.

Speaker 4 How old are you, Ashley?

Speaker 5 32. How can I help? So I dated a guy about five years ago, broke up just because of circumstances, mostly due to distance.
We've dated other people in the last five years.

Speaker 5 And in between relationships, we've kind of always reached out to each other and checked in on each other to see what was going on, see our situation status.

Speaker 5 And we've always been in other relationships when the other person is single. So it kind of flip has always flip-flopped back and forth.

Speaker 5 Most recently, after my most recent relationship, I reached out to him. He told me he was seeing somebody and I wished him the best and I left it at that.

Speaker 5 But I've noticed lately that he's been watching my Instagram stories here and there while not following me. So kind of feels like there's some unresolved thing there.

Speaker 5 I'm not going to get involved and say anything to him. And I don't know, it just feels kind of messy and just kind of wondering, like, what that all could mean.

Speaker 4 So, when did you meet this guy?

Speaker 5 Probably at this point, like six years ago.

Speaker 4 Like, everything was amazing. And then someone moved, and you were just like, we should break up just because?

Speaker 5 No, when we met, we were living in two. So we met in my hometown.
He was in town visiting friends and went back to where he was living. So he was living across the country.

Speaker 5 And we kept a relationship going for like about a year and a half. We saw each other all the time.
We would fly back and forth.

Speaker 5 And then it just kind of got to be, it kind of just got to be too much to maintain because it wasn't just like a few hours. It was like we were across the country.

Speaker 4 No, I hear you.

Speaker 4 But so was my wife when I met her.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So, I mean, you know, it's possible.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 What do you guys do for work?

Speaker 5 I'm not sure really what he does right now. I mean, if I had to get- What was he doing?

Speaker 4 I mean, like, I guess.

Speaker 5 Like restaurant business.

Speaker 4 Did you guys ever talk about closing the distance?

Speaker 5 We did. And we were both like

Speaker 5 pretty stubborn. I felt like

Speaker 5 I felt like he was more reluctant to compromising because he had a lot less to give up. And I had a lot going on where I'm living.

Speaker 5 So I felt like he was expecting me to make all of the changes to accommodate him. And it kind of just left a bad taste in my mouth because I wanted him to be a little bit more understanding.

Speaker 5 Like I had my career here and my family and a house, like, like I own my house here. So it was a lot for me to untangle.
He really didn't have anything to untangle. So that was kind of the.

Speaker 4 Did either of you

Speaker 4 flat out say, I want us to make it work. I want, you know, did you have casual conversations that both of you were like passively asking or suggesting? Or was there like a, I see a future with you.

Speaker 4 I want to make this work. This isn't ideal for either of us.
And like, you know, for example, with Natalie, it wasn't a conversation. It was, if you want to be with me, you have to move here.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 4 And she, you know, her job at the time gave her all the flexibility to do that, but she still left her family, you know, she still left her friends. She still moved to a place where she knew nobody.

Speaker 4 So that was still a huge ask for me, even though her job made it possible. I was pretty clear what needed to happen.

Speaker 4 Once it happened, I was also clear that like, I have to go out of my way to make sure I had to recognize the sacrifice she was making and try to make it as enjoyable for her.

Speaker 4 But that being said, it was just more the conversation started by, let's be together.

Speaker 4 And then as soon as we started being together, I was like, well, if we're going to do this, we need to like be in the same city so and then so it was step one decide to be together step two commit to one of us moving and you know you guys just have to make a decision and then step three is whoever like is making that big sacrifice the other person has to really go out of their way to to recognize that sacrifice and make that transition as easy as possible that all being said Those three steps, where do you feel like you guys fell short?

Speaker 5 It was probably right at that last step where we both knew we wanted to be together, we were both very much in love with each other.

Speaker 5 But it was he really expected everything from me while offering like nothing in return and that like big life change. It was kind of just like, so did you say you need to move here?

Speaker 4 And he said, no, pretty much.

Speaker 5 It was like, I don't think I can like give up like my lifestyle to like go live where you live because we live in like two different kinds of climates.

Speaker 5 And he lives in like a great part of the country. I live in like, not that where I live isn't great.
It's not the same, right? It's not, it's not what he's used to.

Speaker 5 He's used to snowboarding, surfing, being outside all the time. Where I live, it's not really like that.

Speaker 4 And why couldn't you move?

Speaker 5 It wasn't that I couldn't move. It was just like, I needed some time to untangle my life here.
My career was. where I live.
I was going into the office every day. I had to sell my house.

Speaker 5 I had to, there was a lot of your house.

Speaker 6 There was like a lot of moving parts for me, right?

Speaker 5 Which, which, which would have required some time. And my, my, my suggestion to him was, can you come be here with me while I untangle all of this and find a new job where, where you are?

Speaker 5 And it wasn't even like he was willing to do that. So that was kind of the.

Speaker 4 But that doesn't make, to be honest, make much sense.

Speaker 5 For him to come here.

Speaker 4 If the long-term plan was for you to move, and I'm saying there's no right or wrong, right? Like someone just has to, if, if two people are like, hey, we, we want to be together.

Speaker 4 And for us to be together, one of us has to make the move. Yeah.
You have to like weigh all the variables and decide as a couple what that where that is going to be. Right.

Speaker 4 So if you're saying, well, all right, I may have had more going on here, my house, my career, my job, whatever.

Speaker 4 But that being said, where he lives is really cool. It is definitely appealing to me.
People who aren't familiar with this part of the country moving, it could just be a drain on their like emotional,

Speaker 4 you you know, like I'm from Wisconsin, but like someone from let's say Florida moving to Wisconsin might be like

Speaker 4 a bigger just adjustment for them where it's just like, all right, I have a house here and yeah, I've, I've laid my roots here and I got a job here, but I can get a job anywhere.

Speaker 4 And honestly, like living in, you know, I don't know, Denver might sounds kind of fun or whatever.

Speaker 4 Um, so again, there's no right or wrong how you guys make a decision, but if that was your guys' decision, it definitely doesn't make sense in the meantime for get him to move to you is like proof that he's willing to like do something for you

Speaker 4 while you kind of unravel your life. Yeah.
Just because then you're, then you're like back in the Oregon Trail days, like, or just honestly, like immigrants, right?

Speaker 4 Like sometimes the, you know, someone in the family tends to be the father, right, would move to the country that the family is going to migrate to and get a job and get things settled and lay their roots down, so to speak.

Speaker 4 And then he'll bring the rest of his family when everything's situated. But in that kind of mindset, if you guys are moving to his city, he should be like

Speaker 4 settling.

Speaker 4 You guys, you know, up there, it would be harder on you both for him to move to you for six months or 12 months or whatever, and then both of you to move back.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Just like logistically, I feel like feel like that's impractical.

Speaker 5 You're right.

Speaker 4 But he also wasn't settled and he wasn't making plans to be settled he was living you know with like three roommates and well a bit all the more reason why he should you know what i'm saying like that could have been a conversation it could have been yeah yeah all right well listen i want to be with you and let's say denver right like just for the sake of and like denver i think i like your city i don't want to ask you to move to topeca kansas or whatever so i'm i'm gonna move to denver but if you're gonna do that like obviously I'm not going to move in with your roommates.

Speaker 4 Like I'm making this huge sacrifice. I'm going to sell my house.
But like, what does our life look like together? And let's start our life together.

Speaker 4 And so you guys, you could have flown out, you know, to Denver every so often. You could have gone apartment shopping.
Hell, you, you know, got to got, you could have been house shopping.

Speaker 4 You know, maybe you buy a house in the city. I don't know.
There's, you could have, you know, again, got an apartment for a couple of years while you house shopped, whatever.

Speaker 4 He could have led that search. You know, like these are conversations that has like an adult relationship.
Like this is, you know, this is what it should look like. You two making decisions together.

Speaker 4 Because again, if you, if one of you is going to make a move, right?

Speaker 4 Like you both need to know that you guys are in it to win it and that like you guys are taking this seriously and you're making serious decisions together. Because you're right.

Speaker 4 If he was like, well, you know, I like my roommates and it's chill and it's cool.

Speaker 4 Like that, that doesn't give you the security to like make that move if he's not willing to change anything about his life. Now, Now, I'm not sure if that was the case.

Speaker 5 Yes, I mean, in a nutshell, yeah, like that's pretty much kind of like how it went.

Speaker 4 Okay, well, listen, if that's the case, I guess back to your original question: is our choices matter and we make choices and we have to live with those choices.

Speaker 4 And sometimes, you know, this is a choice you made, he made, you made together. But those choices mattered in the context of the potential of your relationship.

Speaker 4 Maybe you guys enjoyed hanging out together. Maybe you had great sex.
Maybe he was the coolest guy you had dated for a while.

Speaker 4 But you're also, the more I talk, you're also describing a guy who, how old is he?

Speaker 5 Now, 32, 31.

Speaker 4 Okay. And how long ago was this breakup?

Speaker 5 This was like five, six years ago.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Well, I mean, what's

Speaker 4 Yeah, but like, I guess what I'm saying is like you made choices and nothing actually brought you guys back together.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 4 You know,

Speaker 4 in between all, you know, you dated other people. He dated other people.
There was no, in the five years,

Speaker 4 it wasn't like things changed in his life that was like, oh, I'm, you know what? I wasn't ready to grow up then. I'm ready to grow up now.

Speaker 4 I guess neither of you made the call to say, I miss you. I think we made a mistake.
I want to figure this out. I want to get back together.
That matters. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Because I think when both of us had reached out it was like feel it was testing the waters like hey are you single are you with somebody else if you're with somebody else i'm gonna respect that and leave it be i get that but you know

Speaker 4 he was never single when you were single no no when he when he had reached out to me i was with somebody else he reached out again i was still with the same person and then when i had reached out to him and then he was seeing somebody else so it's always just kind of been like phone tag where it's like sure but also like i mean listen if they were worth it you yeah i'm not saying you should be like a home wrecker but at some point you know all you guys are doing to each other is letting you guys know that you both think our child is cool and you guys enjoyed each other's company and probably the sex but like honestly there's not much more than that and honestly neither of you are worth it to each other why she follows you i don't know like who Didn't you say she, his, his current girlfriend's looking at your stuff?

Speaker 5 He's looking at my stuff. Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, I don't know. Listen, there's some interest in you.
There's no denying that. But like, there's not much to be gained from reading into like online activity.

Speaker 5 Yeah. You know,

Speaker 4 some people are curious. It's like, I don't know.
Yeah, I dated that girl in the past. She was hot.
What's she up to? Yeah, okay, cool.

Speaker 4 I don't miss her enough to like break out with my girlfriend or do something crazy, but like, you've never thought of it i mean literally this guy like when you were dating the the your other boyfriend and he reached out uh you never like it never crossed you were never curious to just peek at his instagram i mean i've i've definitely like looked at his stuff but i've never left like a paper trail that i was looking at his stuff and in his stories you know what i mean like

Speaker 4 well paper trail just means he's sloppier or just doesn't think it's all that serious. He's not hiding anything.

Speaker 4 Paper trail, you know, is just more like, all right, I don't want my boyfriend to find out, but I want to look. That's a little bit more

Speaker 4 covert on your part, honestly. It doesn't make, it doesn't make the interest level any more serious or unserious.
It just,

Speaker 4 you're just a little bit better at hiding things.

Speaker 4 You know, that doesn't.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So listen, at the end of the day, he is responsible for his relationship, right?

Speaker 4 So if he's in a relationship, you should definitely not be a homewrecker.

Speaker 4 And he's responsible. But like, if you really, and again, you have to be honest with yourself about your feelings, about what you really want, about what you're willing to do.

Speaker 4 But there is nothing wrong because like the expectation is you're probably going to get rejected, you know?

Speaker 4 And my point is, like, there's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I know you're in a relationship. And like, listen, I'm not going to be like reaching out to you.

Speaker 4 And I don't, you know, but like, I regret our decision not to make this work over the past five or six years. I've always thought about you and always wondered and I haven't been able to do better.

Speaker 4 And, you know, if you're happy, then you're happy, but I would regret not saying this to you and putting myself out there.

Speaker 4 And yeah, I just, I need to say that, you know, and he can do whatever he wants with that.

Speaker 4 You know, he could, he probably will say, well, you know, listen, like, I mean, I have a girlfriend, so I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 4 And thanks for sharing, but like, or he could, you know, stew in it for a couple of weeks and realize that he feels the same way. And then he could end that relationship.
I mean, like, listen, like,

Speaker 4 if you're with someone, you know, if people are listening to you, I've said versions of this on different calls and I'm sure I think it triggered some people.

Speaker 4 Like, it's like, oh my God, like you're advocating for her to like, listen, like, if you reaching out to this guy and saying, I regret us breaking up, is enough to make him question his feelings for his current girlfriend and break up with her, then like they were never meant to be in the first place.

Speaker 4 But again, it's not your job. There's a difference between you just putting your feelings out there.

Speaker 4 There's a reason why, like, when people get married, it's just like, if anyone doesn't think, you know, forever hold your peace.

Speaker 4 We've all seen the movies and the rom-coms where someone like races to the church and is like, no, wait, I love you.

Speaker 4 It's just like, okay, well, you know, like, that's not a crime, you know, it's, that doesn't, you know, you're just because you say, I love you or I miss you, uh, doesn't immediately break up a couple.

Speaker 4 Like that person can reject you. And that's often what happens.

Speaker 4 So, but what you're doing is doing this whole thing, you're just fucking with yourself, right?

Speaker 4 You're living in this limbo, you're casually, you know, you're just like, you're playing the what-if game, but not willing to do anything about it, right?

Speaker 4 So, like, you either have to like make a move, even if it's for the peace of mind, yeah.

Speaker 4 Um,

Speaker 4 but like him reading and looking at your stories is nothing, it's curiosity, it's boredom. He could be like taking a shit and just like, eh, hey, what you up to?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Um,

Speaker 4 but But yeah, I mean, like, he probably thinks about you the same way you think about him. But like, you're still not, it's not like you called me up and you're like, I, I, I'm, my bags are packed.

Speaker 4 If he told me to move to Denver today, I would.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 4 Like, you know, well, yeah.

Speaker 5 And I mean, in hindsight, I feel like the things that caused the breakup now, I feel like would be surmounted, like, they wouldn't be insurmountable now with the life experience that I've had.

Speaker 4 Yeah. But you don't, I mean, you don't really, you, what do you know about him

Speaker 4 really

Speaker 4 and how he's changed

Speaker 4 since you guys broke up?

Speaker 5 I mean, in one of the moments when he did reach out, he did express regret and guilt for, you know, kind of not

Speaker 5 being more of a partner when that, when those decisions were being discussed.

Speaker 5 So, I mean, again, it's not like, you know, I mean, shoot your shot.

Speaker 4 I don't know. Like, if you, if this is a guy that you are serious about pursuing, think about it.
I don't know. You'll probably get rejected, but, like, who cares? Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah. No, I know.

Speaker 4 You either have to like shoot your shot or accept the fact that like this narrative you have in your head is that we only broke up for a distance, I think is a false narrative. Right.

Speaker 4 You broke up because like you were in different stages of

Speaker 4 your life.

Speaker 4 You broke up because like he just was, you know, he was still playing the roommate game and like honestly, like liked having a girlfriend, but wasn't really looking at settling down as a 27-year-old, you know, and you were, you know, like, those are reasons why you broke up.

Speaker 4 You are, you are watering down the reasons, which makes it harder for you to move on because you've created this narrative in your head that like

Speaker 4 nothing broke you up other than distance. And again, like I said before, like, you know, plenty of people make it work.
And you guys, for whatever reason, didn't make it work. And that matters.

Speaker 5 No, it's all valid.

Speaker 4 So I, you know, my, my overall advice is don't live in limbo. You know, do something or move on, accept it and just forget about it.

Speaker 5 Yeah. No, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 And in the meantime, you can, you can shoot your shot and say, call me, and maybe I'll, you know, but like, you'll probably meet someone else. And

Speaker 5 right.

Speaker 4 You know, I think it's important to remember why you didn't,

Speaker 4 when you had a boyfriend, and he reached out to you, why that wasn't enough.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that is, you know,

Speaker 5 probably a more nuanced, complicated answer, but I regret not leaving that relationship and pursuing that with him at the time.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but like, you know that now because you have the benefit of hindsight because that relationship ended. But you have to bring yourself to your mindset in that moment of why.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, that relationship was something I, the one I was in, I knew it wasn't going to work. And I was in it knowing that it wasn't going to work.
So I definitely

Speaker 5 thank kicked myself for that. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 But there's nothing wrong with shooting your shot and putting yourself out there.

Speaker 5 Yeah. I appreciate it.
It's scary. It's scary to think about doing that, but I

Speaker 4 mean, it's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 4 You know, you just have to be one, willing to back it up, right? It's easy just to say, but what happens if he called you up a week later and said, you know what? I broke up with my girlfriend.

Speaker 4 Let's fucking go for it. You're going to move to Denver?

Speaker 5 Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 5 yeah, I hear you. And I, I would have to be ready to do that.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, assuming he's still not going to move, I don't know.
But realistically, like, it's not quite that drastic. Realistically, he would be like, no, you know, it'd be more like, listen, I

Speaker 4 regret us not working out.

Speaker 4 And I know you have a girlfriend, but if there's any part of you that like thinks the way I do, and this relationship isn't serving you, like, I want to explore a relationship with you.

Speaker 4 And I think, you know, I want, I'm, I'm serious about like, again, to me, it's like right now, five years ago, neither of you were ultimately prioritizing a relationship. You were prioritizing

Speaker 4 maybe a multitude of things, like your personal life, your house, your career, your, you know, just he was prioritizing other things.

Speaker 4 But at this point, you know, I really think strongly that like, you know, in this day and age, we should start prioritizing. relationships and finding someone.

Speaker 4 Your career doesn't make you happy, you know, and like I have everything I want in a career and I love it and I'm grateful and it makes me happy, but none of that, none of it has made me as happy as being a husband or being a father.

Speaker 4 So like, listen, I don't know, you can say what you want, but like, I think people should recognize that like real happiness is building a family, whatever that looks like for you, whether you want kids or don't want kids, but like a family, people you can connect with, people you can rely on, because no one wants to just be fucking lonely and going to work and working for someone else and having that be the most important thing in your life is a lonely life.

Speaker 4 Like it's not rewarding. There's no purpose behind it.
Like there's no, like, I work for my family, right? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 Like, so if you have a job and hopefully you're lucky enough to have a job that you enjoy and like, even if it's not like your own business, but the thing that's going to get you up out of bed every day with a purpose that you're excited about is because you're doing it for the people you love, right?

Speaker 4 Like you're, you know, you're doing, you know, you're living life for something greater than yourself. So yeah, I think people should start prioritizing that more in their life.

Speaker 4 And I think they'll be a lot happier for it.

Speaker 5 Yeah. No, I agree with that.
I agree with that. And I have a giant family here where I live, you know, so that that was, you know, a big thing that was kind of

Speaker 5 keeping me, keeping me wanting to stay here.

Speaker 4 You got to build your family though, you know?

Speaker 5 Right, right, right. No, I hear you.

Speaker 4 And like the family we grew up with, you know, through our parents is, is great. And it's important to keep that.
But like, again, I feel like everyone wants to feel like they have their family.

Speaker 4 They're, you know, whether that's their chosen family or their partner or their, you know, they decide to have kids or whatever. You need to like have your people that, you know, that were your,

Speaker 4 you know, your household, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Where it's like yours.

Speaker 4 You know, and you have your traditions and you're not just showing up for the family someone else created.

Speaker 5 No, I got you.

Speaker 4 Well, let me know what you end up doing. I will.
But more importantly, if it's probably not with this guy, you got to let it go.

Speaker 5 No, for sure.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 if you're, if you're feeling a little stale in your current surroundings, mix it up. You know, travel some, you know, just try to, you're, you know, you're 32.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I made some big changes in my life when I was your age. So.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, mix it up.

Speaker 5 Got you. All right.
Take care. Thank you.
All right. Bye-bye.
Bye.

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Speaker 4 How's it going?

Speaker 6 It's okay.

Speaker 4 What's your name?

Speaker 6 Mary.

Speaker 4 Hi, Mary. How old are you?

Speaker 6 I'm 35.

Speaker 4 How can I help?

Speaker 6 So I'm dating this amazing guy, but his past is ruining my friendships.

Speaker 5 All right.

Speaker 4 If he's so amazing, then tell me about his past and why that's ruining your friendships.

Speaker 6 Well, his past is like very highly stigmatized. So just like the wording of it will automatically trigger a lot of people.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 6 But then I know some of the details of it. And in my opinion, it doesn't really like clash with my own moral values.
Gotcha.

Speaker 4 What can you share with me the

Speaker 4 thing that is triggering?

Speaker 6 It involved like,

Speaker 6 I don't know, because it's kind of, I'm already kind of like nervous

Speaker 6 saying it because I've had some really bad reactions from friends. But I think easier to say would be like, if

Speaker 6 like my motto in life has always been like, do whatever you want as long as you don't intentionally try to cause harm or hurt anyone. And I feel like that was the case for him, but he

Speaker 6 made some mistakes and like went to visit a place that he knew probably had some bad stuff there. And yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, I mean, I want you to share your comfort level. This obviously is anonymous, but

Speaker 4 it's just hard to give advice without knowing the details.

Speaker 6 Okay, so I'll just say it.

Speaker 6 He's a tier two sex offender for

Speaker 6 pandering

Speaker 6 images, but that wasn't like the whole thing. Like he went to a porn site and apparently that specific porn site has the reputation of having illegal content.

Speaker 6 So the wrong that he did is like any reasonable person going to this website should already know that you could come across something illegal. Gotcha.
And he went to that porn site consciously.

Speaker 4 Did he and claiming he didn't know?

Speaker 6 I think he, I'm pretty sure he did know.

Speaker 6 And here's the catch.

Speaker 6 I'm a little of a

Speaker 6 like an online snoop. So I actually found out all of this information before our first date.
And I made the judgment call that I felt like there's more nuance to the situation.

Speaker 6 And there is. There is.

Speaker 4 Yeah. All right.
Well, listen, I mean, obviously, you're right. That's a very triggering word for people.
I don't know what tier two means. I don't know if

Speaker 4 like the word underage is involved in this scenario at all or what illegal porn content, you know, like obviously a huge red flag.

Speaker 4 The harsh way of saying this is all of our actions have consequences. And by consequences always has this negative connotation, but consequences, I guess, like cause and effect.

Speaker 4 You know, we make a choice. There's a result of that choice.
That results can have positive, you know, in your case, right? Like you made a choice.

Speaker 4 And from your perspective at this stage, as far as your relationship goes, you feel like you made the right choice because you feel like the guy, the man you got to know is a great guy, you know, and despite whatever happened in his past, you feel comfortable with his explanation and the person you've gotten to know, you feel good about, right?

Speaker 4 The additional consequence, right? Or the other effect is your friends are just like, they hear about this word and they're out. You know, it's just an immediate checkout.

Speaker 4 There's not like, girl, I, I don't, I don't want to hear the why. It's just more like, I already have the ick and I feel un,

Speaker 4 I can't. And let me ask you this, because I'm curious.
You mentioned you're a snooper, right? So what did you find or not find?

Speaker 4 Because before you said yes to this date, you knew about this.

Speaker 4 So what was so good about him

Speaker 4 that made you overlook

Speaker 4 this huge red flag?

Speaker 6 Well, when we first started talking, like it was just like the casual banter.

Speaker 6 He was making some jokes about something, but then I was trying to reference something on his profile because he said that he specifically wanted to go slow and he was looking for a hookup.

Speaker 6 So I kind of like segued away from the joking and I went straight into like the deep questions. And I said, like, what's your definition of going slow? Cause maybe our definitions are different.

Speaker 6 And he tried to deflect at first, but and then I just called him out on his bullshit, like, stop deflecting and just answer my, my damn question.

Speaker 6 And he actually did come back with like a really like meaningful question. And ever since then, it's just been a ton of meaningful conversations.

Speaker 6 And then literally the next day, we had like a five-hour phone call. And it's

Speaker 4 how did you guys meet?

Speaker 5 I'm like, pinch. Pinch.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 4 Yeah. So this, this conversation before you met up in person, this is this, you guys were talking on the app, so to speak, where you were getting to know him?

Speaker 6 What do you mean?

Speaker 4 This conversation you just described.

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah, that's the one on the app. Yep.
Yeah. And then the obviously the phone calls when we gave each other's numbers.

Speaker 4 Gotcha. And then at some point you did a background check, so to speak.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 So we had a little bit of a hiccup like two days after we matched because I am the kind of person that I'm neurodivergent. So I will hyper-focus on something so I can feel like I'm in control.

Speaker 6 For example, he, I was telling him a story about how I got the ick

Speaker 6 from a date with a guy where it was a great date. But then at the end of the night when I hugged him, like his smell was off.

Speaker 6 And maybe it's because we went on a long walk and it was just this natural sweat. But then I've only ever had the ick one time and that was a true ick.

Speaker 6 But like in terms of all the people I've dated, it's like a very small percentage. But still that small percentage like kind of makes me like worry because I hate first dates.

Speaker 6 I always say like, I just want to get the first date out of the way. And every other date after that will just be much better.
And that's usually always the case.

Speaker 6 So I was telling him how nervous I was. And he was like, okay, how about I send you a picture? And he sent me a picture, another, like a more updated picture.

Speaker 6 And he wasn't like smiling in this picture. And I don't know why my brain did this, but I was like, do you think you can send me another one with a smile on it? And he felt a little judged by me.

Speaker 6 And he was like, I don't know know if we're really that compatible because i don't want to be so self-conscious about how i look all the time and and then at that point i was like oh my god what am i doing so i went through like the whole like i had to disconnect for like a couple hours to regulate myself and um

Speaker 6 and i came back with like a real apology and he accepted it but he's like i still need some time and so we took a few days some time for what because you asked for a second picture yeah second picture because he felt like I was being smiled.

Speaker 4 So to be clear, all you said is, do you have another picture where you're smiling?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Do you didn't like, you didn't say, do you have another picture where you're smiling because you look ugly here?

Speaker 6 No, I didn't say he looked ugly. I just, yeah, I just.

Speaker 4 Did you say he looked bad?

Speaker 6 No, I didn't.

Speaker 4 Did you criticize him at all?

Speaker 6 I think the adjective I used was, I feel like you look a little glum.

Speaker 6 in this photo.

Speaker 6 Do you mind sending me like a happier picture or something? And he felt like I was like being a little critical. And then he started to worry that maybe my standards are too high

Speaker 6 in terms of like, does he have to like always overthink about how he presents himself to me? Because I'm already asking a question about how his smile or his face is.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 I don't think what you said is all that bad. Now, he has the right to be sensitive, but yeah, it sounds like he's being a little overly sensitive, but whatever.

Speaker 4 And I don't necessarily think he was being manipulative.

Speaker 4 And like, I think people can be, you know, you know, we, we were so quick to like accuse people of being manipulative and gaslighting and whatever and things like that.

Speaker 4 And I'm not suggesting that, but whether it's intentional or unintentional, a power dynamic can form

Speaker 4 when you feel like you did something wrong. with someone that you like, right? And if someone is like, that hurt my feelings.

Speaker 4 And if someone's really good at setting a boundary when their feelings are hurt. Right.
And saying, well, you hurt my feelings.

Speaker 4 So because you hurt my feelings, I need to take a step back and process my feelings without the fear of that person saying, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 4 Okay. I'm out.
You know what I'm saying? Like, so that, that power, that confidence in setting that boundary creates a power dynamic, right?

Speaker 4 You know, it's like, it's like we, you know, like, we like to chase. Right.

Speaker 4 So not, and when I say power dynamic, I mean these little subtle moments early in dating where one person decides, oh, I like you. And the other person's like, unsure.

Speaker 4 Well, the unsure person has a little bit more power because the other person's like, I've already decided and I like you. And so now I feel like I need to prove it to you.

Speaker 4 And, and you hold all the cards, so to speak. Right.
And so it seems odd to me

Speaker 4 that you apologize for something that I don't think was all that big of a deal.

Speaker 6 And then he was like, I still need more time to what to process this you know like because he because i feel like he's like if we're already having if i'm already feeling this way like feeling like you're criticizing me or like judging my like like my appearance you weren't judging his appearance you were potentially judging his

Speaker 6 um

Speaker 6 Like, I mean, I mean, I feel like if I look back at it, I don't, I feel like I really shouldn't have asked for a smiling picture. I should have just been like, okay, cool.

Speaker 6 That's a, that's what I think.

Speaker 4 I think, but listen, like, I don't, you know, you mentioned you're neurodivergent. I don't know.
Maybe you have a tendency of saying

Speaker 4 things that come across as a little direct or rude at times. And maybe that for some people can find it offensive, whatever.

Speaker 4 In the, on, on the scale or the spectrum, uh, pun intended, uh, of, of whether this was rude for you, I think it was a one out of 10.

Speaker 4 Um, like, it's just like, and I hit, listen, I know, I know what it's like for people to come up to me and be like, why aren't you having fun? Smile more. And I, it's annoying to me.

Speaker 4 And maybe you annoyed them. Maybe you hit a trigger.

Speaker 6 But like, and maybe I think I'm a little also triggered from my past. Because you are right, because I do come across as unintentionally rude.
And it's funny because

Speaker 6 in other past relationships, I have the reputation of going to a party.

Speaker 6 And there's always like one person that vehemently hates me. And I don't understand why.
And when you ask other people,

Speaker 6 they seem to be like, what's the problem here? But it's like, it just seems like too much of a coincidence for it to keep on happening with new groups of people that aren't even related. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, listen,

Speaker 4 I'm not one for labeling myself.

Speaker 4 I find labels these days to be self-limiting. But if I go, I know that if I, because I have been once out of sheer curiosity, but if I, according to the NeuroDivergent website, I'm one of you.

Speaker 4 And at times in my life, I've had, I'm a direct person. We all know this.
Like, Ask Nick is all predicated on me being like, I don't give a shit what you think. This is how I feel.
Right.

Speaker 4 And I'm going to tell you directly to your face. And I have the benefit of doing that because I have this show.
Right. But yeah, I've had to learn tact in my life.

Speaker 4 I have lacked nuance because like, I don't know, maybe it's my neurodivergent brain or not.

Speaker 4 But like, sometimes I just don't lack the patience to like sugarcoat things because it's like, you know, I don't care if it hurts your feelings. It doesn't make it untrue, right?

Speaker 4 And I, my whole life, like you,

Speaker 4 I've never been the most popular person. I'm not a people pleaser.
I've always had my critics, whether it's as a public figure or just in small groups, because like I am who I am.

Speaker 4 I've always been comfortable who I am.

Speaker 4 And so, like you, I, you know,

Speaker 4 I've always rubbed someone the wrong way. But like, listen, like, you just got to accept who you are.
And unless,

Speaker 4 um, and again, I, as someone who knows what it's like to be overly direct, I've had to learn nuance. And for my own sake, I have learned tact and a way.

Speaker 4 And, and, you know, so much what I talk about on the show is how you deliver something, how you communicate your words, and your words matter and the nuance of how you say something.

Speaker 4 I'm good at that now because I've had to work on it, right?

Speaker 4 So I can like, I can put myself and empathize and put myself in other people's shoes and think about, okay, if I heard that, how would I receive that?

Speaker 4 Because when you say these direct things, you're not, your first initial thought isn't, how's this person going to receive it? You're just like, this is the truth. And I want to be honest.

Speaker 4 And I'm just going to speak my truth. Right.
And your truth was like, but all I'm saying in the grand scheme of things.

Speaker 4 is whether you are neurodivergent or not, asking for a picture in a dating situation, especially with someone who's a total stranger, asking for a photo, which they're smiling is a total, totally reasonable request.

Speaker 6 And I think he recognized that

Speaker 6 because like later on I asked him like, so why did you like change your mind after you were so upset after the first like little fight we had?

Speaker 6 And he's like, well, I know your quirks a little bit better. So I know that you don't mean to come across certain ways.
So

Speaker 6 it's a lot easier to manage on his end because he's already gotten to know the quirks.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Listen, I can tell you what to do.

Speaker 4 Like

Speaker 4 there's just zero guarantee. And if you want to date this guy, you are simply just going to have to accept that his past is going to be extraordinarily triggering for your friends and your family.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 4 it's going to take an incredible amount of time for him, and it may never happen for people around you to accept him. Because like they're obviously, one, they're going to be protective of you.

Speaker 4 I guess I'm just out of curiosity because you believe that he was aware of whatever this website was, you believe that he was aware of its content. And he still chose to go to this.

Speaker 4 Now, I'm assuming that this website isn't your classic porn website that like, you know, the masses go to.

Speaker 4 And certainly there's some weird fucking titles to the porn these days but it's all consensual it's all adults and it's everyone's understanding that it's legal right

Speaker 4 and if he knew he was going to an illegal website why are you comfortable with that and what what I would want to know from your point of view what do you think he's learned or what has changed about him from the man who who did that to the man he is today Well, if I put myself in his shoes, I don't want you to put yourself in his shoes.

Speaker 4 I want you to,

Speaker 4 yeah, I want you to just, as someone, you're playing judge. I want you to put yourself in a judge's shoes, right?

Speaker 4 I want you to be critical of this guy, open to giving him grace, open to the possibility that people can learn, but I want you to critically question,

Speaker 4 like, what is different about him,

Speaker 4 the man who you believe was aware of how this was illegal, right? Like, just for, it's like, let's, let's take the buzz. He, you know, you knew he knew that robbing a bank was illegal.

Speaker 4 He robbed a bank anyways. Five years later, you met this guy.
He regrets robbing the bank. Maybe it's because he got caught.
I don't know. But like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 Let's, let's take the sexual offender out of it. But let's, you know, he, he robbed a bank.
So like, that person you're dating, you knew he knew it was wrong.

Speaker 4 So what do you think is different about him from that person today? What has he learned?

Speaker 6 Well, I mean, like, I feel like ever since I found that out on my own, like, I've been pretty, like, I've been trying to like observe him and try to see the red flags, other red flags besides that.

Speaker 6 And every, every, almost every interaction is like, I feel is like a green flag. Like, when I want to have a deep conversation, he doesn't like lean into like his, with his natural withdrawal.

Speaker 6 like he'll still stay in the conversation even if it makes him uncomfortable and i feel like that says a lot because i've known so many people that you can't even have like a deep conversation with and i mean that that is definitely a good quality he has but like

Speaker 4 just going back to my example you can be really good at having deep conversations and connect with people and be a murderer

Speaker 4 so it's like having a deep conversation like if he was a murderer and he murdered someone, but it was still simultaneous like

Speaker 4 that might be a green flag, but that doesn't speak to anything about how he's changed about the red flag. They're just both like

Speaker 5 done.

Speaker 6 Like, for example, like when we had our first kiss, like he was, he, he, he wouldn't initiate the first kiss until like I was ready. So I was the one who initiated that.

Speaker 4 Have you asked him about this situation?

Speaker 6 Not Okay, so I'll be like another red flag. He has not disclosed that to me yet.
Oh, yeah, that's a huge one. But at the same time, I feel like if I was like an SO,

Speaker 6 then

Speaker 6 I don't know. I think it would be possible that I would also have like this paralyzing fear.
And then

Speaker 6 plus we have, we still have certain things to like talk through that.

Speaker 6 But like,

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 6 I feel like getting to know each other more, like if we're actually going to be compatible long terms in terms of like what we want, how we're going to deal with certain kinds of conflicts and all that stuff.

Speaker 6 And yeah, so we're

Speaker 4 so you really have no idea if he is just better at committing his crimes or if he's really stopped his crimes.

Speaker 6 Well, when I'm with him, like I feel like occasionally I get annoyed because sometimes he is a little too by the book.

Speaker 6 Like, for example, we went to the grocery store and someone had left behind a dollar. And I was, in my head, I was like, we can use that one dollar towards our groceries.

Speaker 6 But then he insisted that we give the dollar to the bottom.

Speaker 4 That's a great sign. And that is a green flag.
That doesn't necessarily mean, you know, you're, you are, you know, what I'm worried for you is, is that like one, you have.

Speaker 4 convinced yourself you don't need to have this conversation with him and you are a little too empathetic.

Speaker 6 No, the conversation definitely needs to happen.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 But I won't come. I'm not, I'm not going to commit to him or anything.
I'm just, I'm, I'm still getting to know him.

Speaker 4 That's how well I'm glad that I'm glad you're there on that and not all in. But I think you just need to have it sooner than later.

Speaker 4 You clearly care about the guy and you seem more than willing to give him grace. And you clearly want to see the good in him, that's for sure, because you like him, right?

Speaker 4 I'm just saying, like these, these, you're looking for green flags. And when you were looking for things, it's, you know, easier to find.
I think.

Speaker 6 I feel like I'm also looking for the red flags too, because maybe a lot of times throughout the

Speaker 4 I guess what I'm saying is green flags don't cancel out red flags, right? So finding a dollar and giving it to its owner doesn't mean he's still not going to illegal websites.

Speaker 4 You know, that's all I'm saying. Maybe he's so by the book because he has this one dark secret.
Maybe not.

Speaker 4 Or maybe he's truly truly like worked on himself and he was like, I, you know, I don't know why I did that, but I've definitely been working on myself and I've been in extensive therapy to really understand why I did what I did.

Speaker 4 And listen, it's something I'm going to have to live with for the rest of my life. And I truly regret it.
And if you don't want to be with me, I'll understand. But like, I am not that man anymore.
And

Speaker 4 he really wants to own what he did wrong so much so that he really is fighting against other people to stop them from perpetuating the same crime. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know,

Speaker 4 like, it could be that. You know, he definitely, I'm not saying, but like, you don't know.
And all I'm saying is being kind to waiters or returning dollar bills or

Speaker 4 paying the 10 cents for a plastic bag if you lived in California, where a lot of people are like, yeah, I don't care. I'm not paying that because it's like on the honor system.

Speaker 4 doesn't mean he's not doing this stuff, you know?

Speaker 4 And so adding up all these green flags don't really give you any insight into this one big red flag that you're aware of that he doesn't know that you're aware of.

Speaker 4 Serial killers have had families and kids and have been able to, you know, hide that, right? I'm not saying he's that.

Speaker 4 I'm just simply saying, you get my point of the green flags don't cancel out the red flags.

Speaker 6 I think what I'm struggling with, like, if, if I was like, if I had a secret like that,

Speaker 6 like,

Speaker 6 how would people expect me to find love? You know, like, I would disclose it. And maybe if that person like accepts me, but then

Speaker 6 their friends don't accept me.

Speaker 4 I don't know. I don't know.
That's a consequence he has to live with. But it's not your job to, like, you're not his savior.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 It's not like, well, he'll never find love if it's not for me. So I have to.

Speaker 6 I don't think I'm trying to, I don't, I really don't think I'm trying to like prove a point to myself. Like, oh, I can be the one that can, I can, like, appreciate him.

Speaker 4 That's good. I'm just saying, like, there's, there's, I'm glad that you're, you're a type of person who wants to see the good in people.

Speaker 4 And I'm glad that you're capable of offering people grace and empathy, but you still have to be willing to like ask the tough questions, hold them accountable and

Speaker 4 go from there. You know, you clearly are, are, are willing to see the good in this guy.

Speaker 4 So you also also just need to hear it from the horse's mouth and ask him direct questions and then think about those answers and how you feel about his answers and whether his answers actually make sense.

Speaker 4 And do you feel comfortable that this is a man who's truly contrite and really changed and he's safe for you to continue to change or not, right? But you are clearly willing to do that.

Speaker 4 So the question you keep asking is, well, how is he going to find love? I mean, like he find love is,

Speaker 4 well, one is meet someone like you. And two,

Speaker 4 actually have made the appropriate changes in his life, right?

Speaker 4 And for most people, most people will never give him the time of a day or accept what he did. That that's them, right?

Speaker 4 It's, this is your life. You can do what you want.
You're an adult.

Speaker 4 People can change. It's rare, but it's not impossible.

Speaker 4 And if you're willing to be someone who's willing to be open-minded to look past his past, you still need to know that your future is safe and that he has made the appropriate changes.

Speaker 4 And he has, and he is not the man that made those terrible choices.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And like in the best case scenario, like I honestly feel like he, he is all those things.
I really feel like he doesn't even care to look at porn.

Speaker 4 Like, like, I mean, but you have to, you, that's not something you should be assuming or guessing or just simply following your gut.

Speaker 6 How do you prove if someone's still doing that?

Speaker 4 It's not proved, but you should at least be able to talk with him about this.

Speaker 6 We talked about porn before.

Speaker 4 Okay, but that's different. I mean,

Speaker 4 I'm really good at reading people.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 I think I'm one of the best out there. I've been lied to several times.
Very convincingly, you know, I'm not a mind reader. So listen, people lie.

Speaker 4 I'm not saying he's a liar, but like you, just because you've talked about porn, I have no, listen, he knows.

Speaker 4 He probably, there's a good, I mean, unless he's an idiot, there's a 50-50 chance he's wondering if you know already because it's public information.

Speaker 6 Like, he's been so consistent, and that's the thing. Yeah, that's the, that's the thing.

Speaker 4 I just go back to my original saying is none of his green flags absolve the red flag, and you need to deal with the red flag, understand the red flag, have a conversation about the red flag, not assume, not trust your gut, not interpret.

Speaker 4 You just need to hear it from the horse's mouth and have a direct conversation. And even then, to your point, yes, he could still lie.
You're not going to track his, you know,

Speaker 4 internet history or whatever, but you should, you need to hear it from him. You need to see his body language.
You need to look him in the face.

Speaker 4 The fact that you already know and the fact that you have chosen to date him is a great place to start when you decide to confront him about this.

Speaker 4 And because there's no doubt that he has been waiting for this bomb to drop.

Speaker 4 There's not a person he dates unless, again, he's, if he's not worried about it, and if he acts defensive or surprised, then that's a huge red flag, right?

Speaker 4 Because a human being, a normal human being with guilt and fear. and of consequence,

Speaker 4 this should be a dark cloud hanging over his head, right?

Speaker 4 The fact that you already know, you could sit him down and say, hey, listen, first of all, I want you to know that since I've since our first date, I've already known this and I've really wanted to get to know you, the person, but I do want to talk about the fact that you are a registered sex offender.

Speaker 6 Am I also kind of like the, because if I was from his perspective, like,

Speaker 6 if someone told me like, you've already known this this whole time, why didn't you tell me you knew this already?

Speaker 4 Listen, I don't know how he's going to that would honestly make me feel a little safer like i'm the problem that equation too because i maybe i should have already told him from the right i i honestly know i i mean listen i i think as your friend you should have brought it up and i think you've put yourself at risk by not addressing this already right but that's me as your friend from his point of view honestly I think that information would make him feel safer because that tells me that like she's already known, she's already accepted me, she's already given me a chance she already said yes to a date when she could have said no right and you could say well because i wanted to see i you could say i believe people can change and i really liked a lot about you and i liked our conversations and i was open to the possibility that like that this was something from your past that like you've worked through and regret but i do want to talk about it because i still want to understand that part of your life and i want to make sure that is it that's in your past past.

Speaker 4 But you already knowing and already saying yes to a date tells him that you're willing to accept him. You know, that should make him feel safer.

Speaker 4 What he's, I'm assuming, afraid of is that you don't know. And he's like, when do I tell her? How do I tell her? Do I not tell her? It's a bit of a red.

Speaker 4 You need to address the fact that like he hasn't told you. And you can say, well, I, you know, I wanted to see.

Speaker 4 how you would bring this up to me because I might be open-minded to see you, but like it was your responsibility to tell me because it's your responsibility to disclose information that like it could affect my life.

Speaker 4 Even if he was set up, he has the right to disclose that to you because even for this,

Speaker 4 like you dating someone who's a registered sex offender has put your relationships with your friends at risk. Even that, right? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 There are consequences, the actions, and he just has to deal with that.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And the fact that he's not dealing with that is a red flag.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And I feel like if I was, because I feel like I still have more to get to know about him as a person.

Speaker 4 This is, this shouldn't be the last thing you get to know. You don't want to fall in love with this guy and then address it.

Speaker 4 I think you've gotten to know him enough to know that there's something there. You like the potential.
You like a lot of things about him. But like, it's time to, it's time to have this conversation.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 4 And you and you not having it is, is you

Speaker 4 being too afraid to do it and

Speaker 4 putting yourself at risk?

Speaker 6 I've kind of like subtly like alluded to like that, the topic of disclosure where I was like, well, I had an ex that was an alcoholic, but then the whole time we were dating, he didn't drink a lot.

Speaker 6 But then after we became official, he started drinking a ton and blacking out. And I felt like I should have been.
aware of that before committing myself to him.

Speaker 6 And then I was already too emotionally deep in the relationship that it was hard to leave and i stayed too long and his response to that is that like if before he said before i commit to anyone like if i had something like that i would i would bring that up because why would i want to be in a relationship if they couldn't accept all of me

Speaker 4 so if i mean you could call him on his bluff and you could say hey i how long how long you guys been talking like next week will be like six months six months all right right so that's come on uh way too much time for you guys for him not to disclose and certainly plenty of time for you to say hey i really like where this is going let's talk commitment and at that point he should say all right but before we do i need to tell you something okay

Speaker 4 that'll be an easier segue i guess but what if he i i'm i'm baking on the fact he's not going to okay

Speaker 4 If he hasn't told you now in six months,

Speaker 4 he's not planning on telling you. He's definitely in in the category of like there's no was there was no good time and after six months and i got i just got too afraid and i was too committed and

Speaker 4 like he's listen like there's a lot of people who who justify withholding information it doesn't make them horrible people i mean we've all done it right

Speaker 6 it doesn't mean it's not wrong i feel like if i was pushing to be like in a serious relationship i feel like it would definitely be a red flag of behavioral but you are though like it's affected your friendships.

Speaker 4 You're pretty committed to this guy. You're calling in.

Speaker 4 Like you're pretty, like at this point, I don't know what you're doing. If not, like, well, the next step is, you know, otherwise you're, what are you doing?

Speaker 6 Like, the issue is like he, like, all of, all of the therapy I've been about, like, relationships, the common message is like, you have to, you have to, like, reflect on how does this person make you feel?

Speaker 6 Like, not, not what you, not what he does for you, but how does he make you feel?

Speaker 4 Yeah, overall, but there are definitely that's not the that's not the only thing. Our feelings aren't always correct.

Speaker 4 Our feelings are often temporary. Our feelings are often influenced by other variables.
And you've heard me say this, like, how does he make you feel? How do they make you feel?

Speaker 4 Because so many times I talk to people who don't ask themselves that. They're not considering that.
They've been in relationships where they're miserable for years. That's why I say that.

Speaker 4 But that is not, it is not a catch-all. And it is not the golden rule.
And it is not the absolute. And it doesn't mean that like, that you ignore other red flags.

Speaker 6 All right. And like say that like the conversation goes well.
And then I tell him, like, I'm, I like where this is going. I want to talk about commitment.
And then he tells me everything.

Speaker 6 And everything is just like. a wonderful relationship.
But then at the same time, like there's like the common like

Speaker 6 wisdom out there saying, like, no guy is worth losing all your friends for. So even if he is quote unquote, like I would disagree with that.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 5 really?

Speaker 6 That's surprising.

Speaker 4 Well, in the concept that I think, you know, I said this for our last caller, and maybe it's because I'm in my like dad husband era, but like if your friends are your chosen family and you want to grow old with your friends and your friends want to grow old with you and they have, and they're not looking to settle down with other people or start family of your own, then sure.

Speaker 4 But like, I think true happiness comes from like building your family and having your people, right?

Speaker 4 And maybe it is a group of friends who

Speaker 4 grow old together and you guys are your support system. But for most people, it's finding a partner, it's starting a family.

Speaker 4 And if that's something you want for yourself, then yeah, I don't want you to have to sacrifice your friends.

Speaker 4 But if it, you know, when you say for the right guy, you know, maybe your friends are shitty.

Speaker 4 maybe your friends are selfish at some point most friends end up getting married and having kids and life's get busy and it's not that you give up your friends you just like see them twice a year and before you used to see them five days a week and so for the right person yeah like you know friendships aren't the priority it's you know building a life with someone because you know for me And for most people, that's where people find true joy and purpose and happiness.

Speaker 4 It's not for work, if we're not from work or superficial accolades. Those are all temporary and fleeting.

Speaker 4 But, like, you know, when you die, a lot of people are going to reflect on the life they built with someone and the children they created or, or, you know,

Speaker 4 you know, it's not going to be some job you had when you were 40 or 30. You know, not for everyone, but like for most people, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 So again, I'm speaking in like hyperbolic terms right now. But I guess my point is like, listen, like you have a long, like you need to have a conversation with this guy.

Speaker 4 And then, you know, as far as your friends, you're just going to really have to decide whether this guy is worth it. You know, you might lose some friends along the way, right?

Speaker 4 But if he, if you're right about him, right, then it comes down to whether you're, you're right or wrong about him, right?

Speaker 4 If he really is contrite, if he's really changed, if he really is a good guy, you know, and he really made a mistake that he has had a huge wake-up call and

Speaker 4 is safe to be around

Speaker 4 and doesn't hurt others and is really contrite, then like you will make other friends. Some friends will come around.
Some friends will, you know, and it'll work itself out. But you have to be right.

Speaker 4 And when you have this conversation with him, you can't look to breeze through it and you can't look to like make this an easy conversation with him. You have to like really be discerning.

Speaker 4 You have to be willing to ask follow-up questions, even if that makes him uncomfortable. And he has to be willing to not get defensive.

Speaker 4 And he should be incredibly thankful that you already knew and you were willing to get to know him.

Speaker 4 And you're having this conversation for the purposes that you are excited about what you learned so far.

Speaker 4 And you want to, and you hope to continue this relationship, but you really need to understand about his past, why he hasn't disclosed it yet. And is this something that's truly in his past?

Speaker 5 All right.

Speaker 6 I hear that. I'm still, I feel like I'm still like, still stuck on the whole friendship thing because I keep my friendship group like really small.
Like I really only have three best friends.

Speaker 6 So if one friend rejects me, that's like 33% of my friends.

Speaker 4 Like just yeah, listen, you should trust your friends. I would hear your friends out.
I would hear their concerns.

Speaker 6 And but one of the, one of the things, like, okay, so only like

Speaker 6 one of the friends I told the whole truth to because she's like the most she's my most emotionally safe friend

Speaker 6 and she was like i need to put a take a like have a boundary like like i will support your happiness um i don't really support the decision to date this guy and at first her her boundary was like i don't ever want to meet him i can't be associated with him because of work and personal life or and whatnot but then like several months later um

Speaker 6 she kind of like softened a little bit and she like reasoned that, oh, well, she was really stressed with work. So she just was really harsh.

Speaker 6 And she said that, if this is the guy for you, then I will like be involved in like the important moments of your guys' life or whatnot. And the other two friends.

Speaker 6 I didn't tell them the whole big picture. I just said that he has something in his past.

Speaker 6 And the one friend who's like really easygoing, she's like, don't bring it up if you're not going to like tell the whole thing. And so she was annoyed.

Speaker 4 She got a point. Your friends just want you to be safe.

Speaker 4 And also, they want to be safe if they're going to be around a guy who, you know, and you have to make sure this guy you're bringing around, other people, is safe, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 6 And then in the beginning, I was really struggling with like the ethics and morals. Like, what do I owe people?

Speaker 6 And, and I think I maybe realized it a little late, but I feel like now I feel like it's his story. I shouldn't be.

Speaker 4 Well, there's a reason why sex offenders are registered because people have a right to know who these people are.

Speaker 6 So, okay.

Speaker 4 Now, again, I'm not.

Speaker 6 But then also, I'm not, but I'm not, I shouldn't be responsible for fencing that. Like, if he, like, if we're going to be serious and my friends want to know the big picture, it should.

Speaker 6 come from him, right? Because I shouldn't be.

Speaker 4 Well, I mean, listen, I don't know. I, I, you're right.
It's a nuanced conversation. I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 4 Um,

Speaker 4 but I think back to the heart of our conversation, you don't have the answers you need to even make these determinations yet. Right.

Speaker 4 Because while your gut tells you he's a good guy and you've had a lot of green flags, you haven't been willing to have the conversation you need to have. And it's long overdue.

Speaker 4 You've been hanging out with him for six months and all these other what-ifs and scenarios. and

Speaker 4 thought studies and thought experiments you're having in your head about like woulda shoulda, coulda, done a, I don't know. None of that really matters.

Speaker 4 You just need to have the goddamn conversation with him and you need to do it. And you need to stop making excuses and justifying why you haven't and

Speaker 4 kicking the can down the road. And you just need to have it.

Speaker 4 And then you can decide from there, the friends or whatever, like you need to have this conversation first because it could answer all your questions.

Speaker 4 It might go terribly where you read, he really reveals some things that like you're like, I don't know. I was wrong about him.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 That's, you know, I don't think think i can hang out with them hey

Speaker 4 anymore and that will answer all your questions but you you you know that's the information you need to figure out first and then when if you get all the answers you want it's a great conversation and you feel safe and comfortable and you think you know what i i really think it's a good guy then

Speaker 4 you can start figuring out the friends and and the answer is like yeah it's going to be some version of these friends You'll have to be discerning about like, you know, bringing them in out in public with people and introducing your boyfriend if he becomes your boyfriend, if for some reason your friends are alone with this guy, um,

Speaker 4 where they may otherwise would want to know, then maybe you might have to decide to tell them.

Speaker 6 You know, yeah, I feel like if we got to that point, I would definitely be wanting to have the conversation about like how do we like manage like social interactions?

Speaker 4 Because well, he clearly hasn't telling people, he's been dating a woman for six months and he hasn't told her, right?

Speaker 5 Right, okay.

Speaker 6 All right, so for on on the him aspect yes i need to have the conversation but then on the other end with the friend thing the one friend that i'm really thinking about right now is the brutally brutally honest friend and like we've known each other for like over a decade and just the fact that like because i felt like i shouldn't have to be the one to hold on to to manage his story for him and i yeah but you again and back to like if i'm this friend of yours, I'm like,

Speaker 4 I can't even make a decision of whether I can support you because you haven't talked to him about this and he hasn't disclosed it to you. And that makes me really uncomfortable knowing that.

Speaker 4 And you're not being safe by not, by avoiding this conversation with him. So have the conversation and then let's talk about like whether I can accept it or not.

Speaker 4 And if it doesn't work out with him, I still don't know how to, how to reconcile with my one relationship because now she, i she feels like i'm an unsafe friend because she thinks well i mean listen you've definitely made some risky choices here so you can just say listen i i thought i was doing what's best i love you as a friend i value our friendship i'm open to your feedback i recognize that i made some choices that weren't ultimately safe for me and i know you had my best interests in mind but like i really hope that we can be friends and i love you and You know,

Speaker 4 I realized I finally, you know, I talked to him and I didn't get the answers I want. I realized I can't be with him.
And thank you for having my back.

Speaker 4 I realized that while I was upset with how you handled it, that it was out of, it was out of love.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 6 So yeah, I will plan on having that conversation with him soon. I think my goal will be

Speaker 4 soon, like immediately.

Speaker 6 Like within the next seven

Speaker 4 hours?

Speaker 6 I was going to say days. Oh, sure.

Speaker 4 I mean, yeah, I guess give yourself to it. But like, it needs to happen.
Yeah. And like, it just, there's no good time to have a tough conversation.
Right. I say that all the time.

Speaker 4 Seven days won't feel any different than today. When you rip off the band-aid or jump in the frozen pool, you just have to do it because it's always going to hurt.

Speaker 4 It's always going to be uncomfortable. It's always something you're just going to have to push through.
Right. Like, you don't get more mentally ready to jump in the ice cold water.

Speaker 4 You just actually have the guts to jump. Okay.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 6 And then for like my peace of mind going into into the conversation, like, since this is nuanced, it's, that's basically implies this is not like a black and white situation, because most people would say this is a very black and white and you have to like cut ties immediately.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and they wouldn't be wrong. Everyone's different.
But again, like.

Speaker 6 Because I don't know. Like, like, is there like a universal truth that like he is not like, like people with that label shouldn't, you should not give them give them a chance.

Speaker 4 Like, I feel like that's like, that's kind of like the universal truth that i think you know i mean like this is kind of a crazy example but one of the most popular movies out there is shaw shank redemption i bring it up because the one of the main characters are you familiar with the movie yeah morgan freeman's character right like he was a murderer he murdered someone in his early 20s but the man you got to know throughout the movie was this like contrite and this good person and this great friend And, you know, years went by where he regretted taking another man's life.

Speaker 4 Like, you know, like that is possible. And when we watch Shaw Shank Redemption, the vast majority of people aren't watching it and being like, what is Andy Dufrane doing? He's friends with a murderer.

Speaker 4 Fuck that guy. That's crazy.
Unforgivable black or white. No one's thinking that.
You know what I'm saying? We all have empathy. We all are accepting that this man has changed and that he is safe.

Speaker 4 And that while terrible what he did, that like this is a different person. It is possible.
It's just rare.

Speaker 4 And we have to be willing to really hold these people accountable and be willing to find out that we were wrong, that they haven't changed, that they're not safe. You have to be willing to do that.

Speaker 4 And up until this point, you haven't been willing to do that.

Speaker 5 Yep, you're right.

Speaker 6 And I heard, and I knew that. I knew that.

Speaker 6 And I feel like I was trying to like

Speaker 6 figure out all the other aspects before doing it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's just you kicking the can.

Speaker 6 Part of me felt like me having to be the one to bring it up would be the ultimate like red flag deal breaker because part of me feels like the integrity piece of it.

Speaker 6 Like I feel like his integrity is still like intact.

Speaker 6 He still has the opportunity to like.

Speaker 4 No, he hasn't told you. His integrity is not intact.
And

Speaker 4 you're acting like it's your responsibility to bring it up because you knew like you gave him grace.

Speaker 4 You were willing to get to know the man without bringing it up and making it the center of a relationship. That's grace.
You gave him grace. If he can't see that, then

Speaker 4 yeah, I think you should, you should

Speaker 4 peace out.

Speaker 4 If he, just the last bit of advice before I let you go, and I do have to go, if you tell him that you've known and he tries to flip that around on you and make you feel guilty for not telling you, then you should run because that's him gaslighting you.

Speaker 4 And that's not him recognizing the obvious thing, which is you gave him grace. You were willing to be open-minded.
He's the one who is in the wrong for not telling you. He has kept the secret.

Speaker 4 You've kept no secret. You were just willing to be open-minded.

Speaker 6 I've got the secret that I knew already.

Speaker 4 I don't care.

Speaker 4 It's not your responsibility to tell him. It was his responsibility to tell you.
It's his secret, not yours.

Speaker 6 And worst case scenario, and he does try to flip it back and make me the problem. What would a good response to him be?

Speaker 4 I think this, I don't think we should hang out anymore. Best of luck.
Goodbye.

Speaker 6 That's it. Okay.

Speaker 5 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You don't

Speaker 4 like if, again, like, if he's the type of person, you know, I just want to make sure he's not good at flipping it around, being, you know, gaslighting and manipulative, like trying to, you know, again,

Speaker 4 that would be a huge thing to watch out for.

Speaker 4 If he tries to make you feel bad for not telling him and flipping that around, I would run. I would immediately run.

Speaker 6 And there's, and at that point, there's, there's no chance of, of

Speaker 6 course,

Speaker 6 like no coming back. There's no coming back.

Speaker 4 Like, there's no amount of being sorry for I just think that's such a, given the stakes and given the circumstances, that is just, you know, this is not, that's not a man who's learned.

Speaker 4 It's really, you're right. It's nothing really to do with what he did, but is showing you that this is a person who is very quick to get on the defensive.

Speaker 4 And instead of just owning his mistakes, he is, he blames you. He's gaslighting you.

Speaker 4 So like that, that wouldn't tell me a guy who's made such a horrible speak that he did has really done, you know, like that tells you so much about someone's ability to take accountability and ownership for their mistakes.

Speaker 4 And to me, that would say that everything you've seen before, the dollar is always just performative bullshit to mask the person who he really is.

Speaker 6 And it doesn't matter that like during previous conflicts, that he took accountability during those conflicts.

Speaker 4 Again, if

Speaker 4 yeah, no.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Because you need to have a conversation.

Speaker 4 Because he just, again,

Speaker 4 he should just be like, well, well, he could say, yeah, I guess I wish you would have told me, but like more, you know, then, but I should have told you. It's my response.

Speaker 4 I'm sorry for not telling you. And thank you for giving me grace, especially when you explain yourself.
There's just no version where you did something wrong. It's not your secret.
It's his secret.

Speaker 4 You were waiting for him to see if he would tell you. You were trying to find out, is this a guy I can trust? Is he going to disclose something he needs to disclose to me?

Speaker 5 All right. Okay.

Speaker 4 If he tries to turn that around on you, then he is not, then that is so revealing.

Speaker 5 Okay. All right.

Speaker 6 I think I can stick with that. One last thing.

Speaker 6 Due to my neurodivergence, I feel like in-person confrontation is uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 Now that you need to do it in person.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 6 Got to do it in person.

Speaker 4 Don't sell yourself short. You can work through discomfort.
If you can work through this, you can work through that, right?

Speaker 4 Don't sell yourself short.

Speaker 6 All right. So don't allow myself to be tempted to have this conversation over the phone.

Speaker 6 I have to resist that temptation, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, listen, have it however you need to have it.
But if you want to do it, because you want to,

Speaker 4 you want to hear his body language. You want to see, you need to really know that you can trust this person and you need to really get all the variables.

Speaker 5 Okay. Yeah.
All right. Gotcha.
All right.

Speaker 6 Good, good information.

Speaker 5 Gotcha.

Speaker 4 All right. Thanks for the call.
I appreciate you. Thank you.
Please let me know how this goes.

Speaker 6 Yes, I will.

Speaker 4 All right. I'll talk to you soon.
All right. All right.
Bye-bye. Bye.

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Speaker 3 Good. How are you? Good.
What's your name? I'm Jen. I'm 36, and I'm wondering if I should give my ex-best friend another chance.

Speaker 4 Is your ex-best friend data sex offender?

Speaker 5 I'm just kidding. That was our last question.

Speaker 3 No, no. Oh, God, really.

Speaker 4 All right. Tell me about why

Speaker 4 this friend's an ex and why you're considering reuniting.

Speaker 3 Okay, so

Speaker 3 we were best friends from age four preschool through elementary school, middle school, high school and college, even though we went to two separate high schools and colleges through a little bit of early adulthood to post-college as well.

Speaker 3 And, you know, we were like as close as best friends could be who have known each other for that long.

Speaker 3 The entire time, though, she's been a little flaky, not a little flaky, a lot flaky, like hard to make plans with, won't commit to specific plans, you know, will say she's going to be somewhere and then bails last minute.

Speaker 4 So she's unreliable.

Speaker 3 Correct. So same behavior from when she was a child through like when we were last close in like early adulthood.

Speaker 3 And I was never willing to like cut her off prior to when I actually did because it was so much history in there that I couldn't imagine not having her in my life anymore.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I was like, oh, she's my best friend. Like, you know, this is how she is.
I can't just like cut her off. But then, like, in early adulthood, after college, you know, I started working.

Speaker 3 I started like meeting new types of people. And then I was like, I don't like really need someone like this in my life anymore.

Speaker 3 And this doesn't align with like, you know, who I want to hang out with anymore. So basically, we kind of just like slow ghosted each other a little bit.

Speaker 3 Like, she still lives in my hometown and lived there in my early adulthood. And I moved to the bigger city by where we live.

Speaker 3 Yeah, eventually when I just like was over it, we just kind of stopped communicating eventually. Okay.

Speaker 4 And so why are you thinking about bringing this person back into the fold?

Speaker 3 So this past weekend, I was back in my hometown.

Speaker 3 My, it was my mom's birthday and we needed to kill some time before meeting up with my mom. So we went to the mall.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I just like hate going anywhere in my hometown for the possibility of like seeing like school people that I don't really feel like making small talk with.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh, I hope like I don't run into her. But like I did run into her and she was with her three-year-old daughter and her husband.
And I was with my husband.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I mean, we made some small talk and she has a daughter now. I'm pregnant with my first child due in January.
So. Thank you.

Speaker 3 So we reconnected over that a little bit, kind of just talked about like pregnancy and parenting and stuff. And she had said, like, at the end of the conversation, like, oh, I would love to reconnect.

Speaker 3 Um, because also she had asked, like, if I was planning to still stay in my big city or like move back closer to our hometown.

Speaker 3 And I said, I'm planning to move back closer to our hometown because my mom's still there. My husband's mom is still there.

Speaker 3 He's from like around the same area too. So we wanted to do that maybe after our kid is born.
And so she was like, oh, like, if you're going to be back in our hometown, we should reconnect.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I've heard this before, like she's tried to reconnect other times in life as well.

Speaker 3 And I just end up disappointed because she'll like flake out if we like make another plan to meet up or whatnot. So

Speaker 3 why am I giving this another chance now? I'd like to think that like, you know, she's also 36 as well. We've lived some life.
She has a daughter now.

Speaker 3 I'd like to think that she's like learned a little bit in this time. We've been apart, but

Speaker 3 maybe, maybe not. And, you know.

Speaker 4 Well, here's, here's what I think. I think there's a middle ground.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Let's just focus on what you can control and let's focus on your choices in you and not forget, focus on her, right? Yeah. Even if it's for the selfish reasons.

Speaker 4 that you are about to be a mom and she is a mom and when you know i i'm super happy for the for you you know starting a family.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 4 But your life's about to change. You know this.
You don't need me saying this to you. But like, you don't even realize

Speaker 4 you're just going to make decisions differently. And one decision, and I'm sure you already know this is obviously once you're, you're just going to want to surround yourself with other moms.

Speaker 4 And like, it's just, it's nice to have a community of moms and play dates and things like that. If for no other selfish reasons, it makes sense.

Speaker 4 to be open about like having this person in your life to like

Speaker 4 mom around with everyone,

Speaker 5 right?

Speaker 4 Um, yeah, yeah, when you grew up with this person at various times in your life, she was your best friend and you were sisters, and she was like, honestly, at certain points of your life, I'm probably, it's probably safe to say she played the role of your partner, right?

Speaker 4 In a sense that, like, when you're best friend and you don't have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or you don't have a romantic partner, your best friend is the person you're talking to every day.

Speaker 4 You go to, you, you talk on the phone,

Speaker 4 falling asleep to, you, you, you just just spend all your time with right like that happens all the time with men and with women all kinds of relationships, right? Yeah, she's not that person anymore.

Speaker 4 She probably will never be and the fact that you are about to be a mom Are you married? Yeah, okay, so you already have a man woman a man. Okay, so you already have a husband.

Speaker 4 That's your priority, right? Like this this friend is not your priority, right? Like you don't have you don't have time.

Speaker 4 You're gonna have less and less time for like this this friend regardless, right?

Speaker 4 So the easiest way not to disappoint ourselves is to not have unreal reasonable expectations for things in people, right? And we need to learn when people show us who they are, right, to believe it.

Speaker 4 Right. Now, that doesn't mean we have to be so absolute in terms of like, hey, you're in or out, you know, like if

Speaker 4 you know, you can never disappoint me and that we can't be friends if you ever do. Right.
So like, right.

Speaker 4 Nellie and I have friends in our lives.

Speaker 4 Again, we are each other's best friend, so to speak. We're each other's whole lives.
We are each other's priority. Our daughter is our priority.
We're trying to grow our family.

Speaker 4 Our immediate family are people we invest in. And we have friends and we like our friends.

Speaker 4 But some of our friends, from time to time, for various reasons, maybe because they're single and they just have different things going on. And

Speaker 4 some friends we know that can just get caught up in their own bullshit when things aren't working the way they want it to work out, right?

Speaker 4 So you just got to stop having expect, you know, it's just like, but we can still be friends with those people we don't expect the world of them in fact we don't expect much of them but what we do is when we do hang out enjoy their company you know yeah

Speaker 4 and so if all you do is to allow this friend back into your life and just tell yourself when she when i'm with her i'm going to enjoy her company she is probably going to flake you know and again you might flake right like i don't know you just like she is just like i'm sorry but like you're going to have a child you have your husband and shit's gonna come up where you might have to break a plan with this friend and that should be okay right so like she might not show up for your birthday she she's you know don't have her plan your birthday party don't come to her for big things don't get so caught up in this friendship that you like night her is the per your your ride or die don't count on her for big important things that you like if it doesn't follow through will be disappointed just hang out with her for once in a while you know if there's things you want to if you want to share share with her mom stuff, you know, like if she, she can be an unreliable person, but a trustworthy person.

Speaker 4 I don't know if she is trustworthy, but I'm just saying, you know what I'm saying? She's unreliable and flaky, right?

Speaker 4 Which means that when she gets, when she decides that something in her life needs attention, then she prioritizes that and she doesn't prioritize her friendships, right?

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 4 Doesn't mean she's even wrong.

Speaker 4 It just means that it hurts your feelings when you are counting on her and she doesn't deliver, right totally so the middle ground is you know what i'm saying it's like you you don't have to cut her off anymore i get maybe why it happened in the before maybe you were hurt by something she did it just was causing you too much stress and pain it was just a reminder of a time that you really counted on her and she didn't deliver yep but now you have lived your life without her she hasn't even been in your life but like it chanced it sounds like when you do hang out with her she's a pretty good time yeah definitely i mean i could get into more like specifics of like when I was like let down by her and when I was like almost going to let her in and didn't.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 4 I'd love to hear that.

Speaker 4 But let me, before you do, is it relevant to what I just said?

Speaker 4 Does it change anything I just said in terms of if all you did moving forward was to decide to casual to have her be in her life occasionally?

Speaker 4 Maybe you call her up and you're just like, hey, do you want to go to the the market with me and my

Speaker 4 son or daughter? And she's like, yeah, I'm free. Let's go grab a coffee.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 many times when you reach out, she's just not available or vice versa. And then, or, or you both make plans at various times where she's just like, yeah, sorry, I got to cancel on you, babe.

Speaker 4 And you're like, yeah, cool, whatever. And you never ask her.
and to to you never count on her for like something you really need where you need this person to follow follow through.

Speaker 4 Like she, you just, you just don't. You just, you've accepted that this is a person who's really disappointed you, really dropped the ball, really left you hanging.

Speaker 4 So you're just never going to count on that person to do that. Does if

Speaker 4 what you're about, you know, if, you know, if what you're about to tell me doesn't really change all that, then, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 No, it kind of doesn't.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, I would give you like examples of like when like I was like counting on her and she didn't follow through but all it's like taught me is like that's not the person you count on for the big stuff and to follow through so you know you started this you know like well she's older now I assume she's let's assume she hasn't changed

Speaker 4 do you have people in your life that you can count on for big things

Speaker 4 yeah totally right do you so do you you don't need her for that you're not you're not considering letting her back in because you ran out of people to count on and you're hoping that she's learned because you really need her to, you know, you really need someone you can count on.

Speaker 4 That's not why you're, you're just, you're bringing her back in for the occasional hang.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. I guess like, I just wonder what that kind of friendship looks like because we've never been like casual friends before.
It's been like ride or dies to nothing.

Speaker 4 So yeah, but you're not, you're not 16 anymore. You're not 22.
You're

Speaker 3 36.

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, but now you're about to be a mom. You guys have other priorities.
That was a different time. You had different different things going on.
Neither of you had families.

Speaker 5 True. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So set boundary. You know, healthy relationships have healthy boundaries.
And it's your job to set healthy boundaries. Like,

Speaker 4 and again, this is only assuming you're worrying about the scenario in which she was just like starts obsessively calling you every day and demanding that you guys hang out every day.

Speaker 4 And then like, like, says, hey, I really, hey, you got this big thing. Let me, like, let me do it.
Count on me. I don't, don't ask someone else to do it.
you know. And then you're like, I guess.

Speaker 4 And then she don't, you know,

Speaker 4 that's probably not going to happen.

Speaker 4 But if it does happen, you can just say, you know, I, I got my mom and, or I got my other friend, you know, maybe it gets to the point you guys get closer and and and you have a heart to heart.

Speaker 4 And she's like, why did we fall apart? And you're just like, well, you just really kind of left me hanging and really, you know, it hurt my feelings. But like, you know,

Speaker 4 I moved, I kind of got over that. And I just really like having you in my my life

Speaker 4 the way you're in my life right now. And you're, it's been, I, I'm, I'm glad I get to enjoy your company from time to time.

Speaker 4 Again, like as, as a someone who's about to be a mom and you have a husband and you have your family, like, that's where all your energy should go.

Speaker 4 And when it comes to our friends, we are lucky to maintain those friends who can like pop in and pop out. Like my best friend that I've known since like, I don't know, childhood.

Speaker 4 You know, he's a Cubs fan. I'm a Brewers fan.
Like, we, I don't know, like, we text once yesterday because they're playing against each other. Like, they came up to see the lake house.

Speaker 4 I hadn't seen him in over a year.

Speaker 4 You know, like, so,

Speaker 4 you know, he's got his life. He's got two kids.
You know, we're busy.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So if that's all she is, that I think that would work.

Speaker 3 Well, what do you suggest if, like, we do, like, start getting closer and I can kind of feel us like creeping back into like the lifelong friends we were once before.

Speaker 3 You know, that's going to like make

Speaker 3 who is who is she replacing then there is no one to replace because i don't like have any friends in my life to that degree who's like known me throughout

Speaker 4 but who are the people in your life that you count on

Speaker 5 for oh yeah

Speaker 3 yeah like my husband and i have a close group of friends that my husband and i share so them so i guess i'm just saying you were You were worried about a scenario that, quite frankly, I don't see why it needs to ever like happen.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Because Because this is about your friend who let who disappointed you.
This will only happen if you have expectations of this person that you shouldn't have.

Speaker 4 So as long as you don't have those expectations, and as long as you don't replace the people who are currently in your life that you go to for important things and

Speaker 4 start giving her that role, then you have nothing to worry about.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 4 So that's like, that's completely in your court. You have all the power here.

Speaker 4 If she gets weird about like demanding that like she comes to you instead of her husband or instead of your group of friends that you would otherwise go to, then you can, again, just set a boundary.

Speaker 4 Just be like, listen, I, you know,

Speaker 4 I'm, I'm good. If she gets weird, you can just stop.
You've already stopped being your friends with one, so you can be stopped being your friends with her.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, totally. You know?

Speaker 4 Um,

Speaker 4 is that helpful?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Um, I feel like you're still kind of like, you're worried. Like, what, what, does she have some sort of power over you?

Speaker 3 No, it's just like, you know, knowing like what kind of friends we used to be and like bringing that back into my life.

Speaker 3 And I'm, you know, I'm definitely taking in what you're saying about how she doesn't need to be that kind of friend anymore. And it can be like

Speaker 4 a completely different life. Make no mistake.
Like, if you didn't have a falling out, it would be weird. for her to be a wife and a mom and you to be a wife and a mom and your relationship not change.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And the other thing, too, is like, I guess we didn't have a technical falling out.
I just, I didn't like, like the person she was becoming and want to keep that kind of person.

Speaker 4 She certainly noticed that you guys stopped hanging out too.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, she probably has like her side of it too, of like why she didn't keep up with me either.

Speaker 5 Like maybe I changed her.

Speaker 4 And it probably isn't more than anything than like she got busy and she became a mom and a wife and just like life happened.

Speaker 4 And you are comparing a friendship of when you were guys were teenagers and in your early 20s and you had nothing but each other to like a life now where you have so many other more meaningful things that are such a bigger priority than this friendship.

Speaker 4 And even if you, there wasn't a falling out, your relationship would have drastically changed to the point where like you would rarely talk and hang out even less.

Speaker 4 But it doesn't mean you like aren't friends. It just means you're grown up.

Speaker 3 Yeah, totally.

Speaker 5 Okay. All right.

Speaker 5 Hopefully this was helpful.

Speaker 3 I think so. I feel like this wasn't so meaty and juicy.
I can give you like more if you want.

Speaker 4 No, I think this was great. I mean, listen, like

Speaker 4 this show is in the, like, we certainly love the meaty, juicy stories, but it's more, you know, interpersonal relationships are hard to navigate.

Speaker 4 And like you have demonstrated, like, you know, we bring in baggage and hurt feelings. And we often.

Speaker 4 whether it's a romantic relationship, a parent-child relationship, or a friendship, we often prioritize the wrong things.

Speaker 4 And we often like have the wrong point of view about how we see things because we're emotionally invested, because there are scars, because there's hurt feelings.

Speaker 4 And I think, you know, what this show is about and what I'm generally good at is helping people navigate, take out some of the emotion or the unnecessary things and reframe how we look at a situation so that we can get the most out of that situation.

Speaker 4 which is like for me, I'm just trying to get you the most out of this relationship, which is like, hey, if she's a cool hang, if she's a generally a good person, like there's no reason why you can't take advantage of someone whose company you enjoy, who has created a similar life that you have, and if for no other reason, use each other to like for play dates and companionship from time to time, then you should, you should definitely do that.

Speaker 5 All right.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Thank you for the advice then.

Speaker 5 Awesome.

Speaker 4 All right. I appreciate the call.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 Appreciate it. All right.
Bye. Bye.