E896 Going Deeper with Dylan Efron

I thought diabetics couldn't eat that.

Do you even exercise?

Check your sugars, darling.

You need to get fit.

Stop eating so many sweets.

You should really watch what you eat.

That's how you lose a foot.

I heard it's preventable.

Sit around on the sofa.

You did it to yourself.

For people with diabetes, one little comment is never just one little comment.

Join Abbott and let's end diabetes prejudice. Find out how at AboveBias.com.
When you choose Cosentix, Secukinumab, for your patients, you also choose a team of experienced professionals dedicated to making onboarding seamless and efficient for your patients. We are committed to helping your office navigate health plan coverage and reimbursement processes so that your patients can start and stay on Cosentix.
Want to know what Cosentix can do for your patients? Visit CosentixHCP.com to see the data. Looking for a better-for-you deodorant that actually works? Eat Humble Brands, made with simple ingredients designed for your long-lasting freshness and available in a variety of incredible scents.
I started using Humble Brands about a month and a half, two months ago. I'm absolutely obsessed, mostly because of their scents.
Well, not mostly because, I mean, I love their scents, but also mostly because it works. If I'm someone, if you haven't known, I'm allergic to deodorants like many of you, the aluminum or all the crap that goes into your typical deodorants, it's crazy what's in those deodorant sticks.
And since your skin is your largest organ, everything you put on your skin is seeped into your body and you want to make sure what you're putting on your skin is good for you. Well, when it comes in Hummel Brands, all their products have no aluminum, no alcohol, no parabens, just reliable odor protection that lasts.
Their best-selling deodorant is crafted with just four powerful ingredients and naturally derived scents. My favorite scent so far is their Mountain Lavender.
Really enjoy it. Love it.
Lasts. I'm a big guy and I don't stink.
Let me smell myself right now. Nope, I still smell good.
Wow, smells great. I'm wearing it right now.
And why Humble Brands over all of the other products on the market? Well, they're aluminum-free and made without artificial fragrances. They're cruelty-free as certified by Leaping Bunny.
And gives back through 1% for the planet. Make the switch today to feel good all day.
Try Humble Brands risk-free with their 60-day love it guarantee. Make sure to use code V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S.
That vial files to get 15 off at humblebrands.com and follow them at humblebrands on social for more dylan welcome to the vial files man it an honor to be here. I'm so excited to have you.
Congratulations on being one of the winners of Traders. Yeah, it was a weird ending, but honestly, that was the best way to end it with people.
We were all on the same team at the end of the day. I feel like we're actually recording this before the actual finale airs.
So we're not aware of what public audience reactions will be. I think it'll be mostly universally loved.
They'll always be the people who kind of roll their eyes because they want the drama. They want someone to really screw someone over at the end.
Totally. Bob Harper said that he's like, Dylan, you made a massive mistake.
He's like, this is a drama show. You needed to cut throats at the end.
Do you think that, well, I guess whether it's you or anyone else of your cast, had any one of those people decided to be traitorous, they would have been the individual winner? So no, if a faithful wins, it has to be two faithfuls at the end and we definitely all had a strategy just in case because at the end you throw stones so if one of us throws a red stone we have to vote someone off so we were doing all the math and being like all right like who are we going to vote first and like so we were very prepared in case someone threw a redstone, but sure enough, we all threw green first try. What was the plan in case? What was the plan? I don't remember exactly, but I think the plan was to end with me and Gabby.
And who knows if Gabby had the same plan I did, but that was my plan at least. Why? Because by that time, Gabby was, so Brittany had the seer ability.
She proved that Gabby was a faithful. I also had come to the same conclusion.
So she was in the end, the person I trusted most. Dolores had some red flags.
Again, I trusted Dolores and Ivor, but they both had a few red flags where it's like, if you're trying to remove any chance that you're going to lose this game, the smart thing is to get rid of them both. Like Dolores voting history was pretty all over the place.
She had Danielle's back. Like there's enough reason to vote Dolores out and same with Ivor.
So I'm happy we ended it. Like I didn't want to go there, but if we were forced to, we would have.
And who knows, Gabby might have chopped me off first did you ever ask her i haven't no it would have been interesting if gabby would have honestly as loyal to you as you would have been to her honestly i'm shocked she was as loyal as she was because you can see in the edit like i was all over her like i would i was a thorn in her side from the beginning thinking she was a traitor do you think part of it had to do with the like all the finalists not being gamers and i feel like if like last season it was um oh i can tell you yeah a gamer would not have ended it with the four of us it just makes no sense you get more money like it makes no sense yeah with tc yeah ct ct but people were pissed about mj getting the boot, yeah, you're always going to piss off somebody. And you definitely are going to get some comments about you kind of being dirty.
Yeah. I think at the end, it really did feel like we were a team at the end.
And we were just trying to get the traders out. Not to diminish the amount of money that you could have won had you taken it all by by yourself but like i guess in your place you're thinking like i don't know 100 grand or like everyone thinking i'm kind of slimy yeah and kind of shady you know like i'll it's like let's do that math let's say that i got dolores out next and then we ended with three of us so we would have split 50k three ways i would have got like i don't know the pot was 50k 50k each so if we got with three of us.
So we would have split 50K three ways. I would have got like, I don't know.
The pot was 50K? 50K each. So if we got rid of Dolores, we would have added 50K more to the three of our winnings.
18K maybe? So like I would just ruin my lifelong relationship with Dolores for 18K. After taxes, that's like $9,000.
There's no way it's worth it. That's a lifelong friendship with Dolores.
Yeah, I love Dolores. I don't want that to be the end.
And she told me, she's like, Dylan, you murdered me. All right, well, let's put a pause on Trader's Talk.
I want to come back to that. But I also like, I'm just really excited to have you on because similar to when we had the opportunity to interview Sam.
Sam. I listen, I listen to the podcast.
You know, it's just like, like I told him, like everyone knows who you are, but no one really knows who you are. Like, obviously everyone knows who your brother is and, you know, he's a big deal and he's super famous.
And before you went on the show, like I, I was aware of who you were, you know, I remember, you know, like the other once in a while, it's just like Zach Efron's brother. Oh, he's tall.
You know, like, you know, and so there's this like this kind of, there's been this fascination with you, like that stemmed from obviously your brother's notoriety and things like that. And then, but we don't, you know, it's like, it was all this from that point, just a lot of speculation, you know, kind of like similar to Sam.
It's like you, you knew the person existed, but you didn't really, you never really heard from him, got to know their personality. if you didn't watch your and zach's documentary it was this again just a lot of like you were just more zach efron's brother but now i feel like there's like you are you're dylan you know and you've you've become like the star of the show and there's a lot of like interest and i'm excited to get to know you better and find out who dylan efron really is thank you yeah that's everything was really nice but i i think that's look i one going back to like being known as zach efron's brother like i've always said that's a badge i wear with honor like i was i was raised that way like zach got famous at a young age how how were you so zach was probably 17 when he was famous like worldwide famous so that means i would have been 12 okay and before that he's my four-year-old bigger brother who's in high school when i'm in middle school he's already cool like i thought he was the coolest person my whole life so then like of course america's gonna fall in love with him like so like i've got i've've been blessed for all of his success and the fact

that he endorses me as my brother and has always included me on stuff. Growing up, I got to see

some of the coolest things. I got exposed to Hollywood in the best way.
I saw the pitfalls.

I saw the cool red carpets. I saw it all and was able to watch it from a distance.
I realized at

a young age, I don't want fame. I don't want to make the most money and live in the nicest house

Thank you. pits like i saw it all and was able to watch it from a distance and i realized at a young age like i don't want fame i don't want to make the most money and live in the nicest house in hollywood like that's not my goal so i had that perspective at a young age through my brother and then you you became a production coordinator yeah yeah uh what was it ready player one yeah accountant that's kind of cool it was i worked on some cool movies how did you end up starting starting doing that or like for people who don't know that's like real that's grunt work you know you're i was a pa i did it all you're getting coffees you're working shitty hours you're being you're just you're doing tasks for other people like that's like that's like a like a summer college job like in a in in a in like real fucking like character building work like what made you and shitty pay usually and i think that like you know when people always say like you've never worked a service job like if you're ever a bus boy or like anything like that it makes you can tell the people who have because how they treat people that work those jobs and it's like like i i was a bus boy in high school like i've been a pa on a film set like i know how these productions get like i don't know i i've been there so i i think it's a fun perspective for me to see how films are made from every scale in a way so yeah i guess taking a step back i was i graduated college i was going to move to sacramento work Cal Poly San Luis Obispo.
What was your major? Business. And then minored in economics.
I had some fun there. I did bull riding as a class.
How much did you take advantage, if at all, of being a younger brother? Not much. I had a girlfriend okay um yeah not not i look at i can't believe i'm gonna say this but like my whole life i do feel like i've people have treated me really nicely and maybe that's because of zach maybe like you have nice eyes too like it goes back to even elementary school like i i used to think that maybe i was a little special because of people like special in a way that i would have to go to special reading classes and stuff like i did have to go to special reading classes but i was like maybe that's why people are nice to me is because i'm like off no one of those shit yeah yeah i actually are you dyslexic by chance i think i think i have a lot of that stuff i think i have add a little dyslex ADD I was really good at math so they would actually take me up for gate which was like gifted kids for math and then they'd give me the boot and put me in special reading courses that was me I was really good at math and they're like this kid doesn't know where commas go you can't spell either it's like like the opposite yeah that was a tangent and then all right so you graduated from college yeah i graduated from college and then i got a job at warner brothers um i interned for this producer named robbie meta and he just took me under his wing so i started as like a trainee the pa i became like his assistant then i became a production coordinator and my last movie was A Star Is Born so like some of these movies like Chips with Dax Shepard and A Star Is Born like I was there on set in Video Village like getting to see these movies filmed and like a part of this crew so it was such a cool perspective for me.
Did you get a chance to interact with Bradley Cooper or any of the accountant? Ben Affleck, yeah. Mostly, I would say Chips was one of the highlights for me because Dax Shepard just became a friend.
And he was so cool to see. He really filmed that movie to just have fun with his friends.
And it felt like that with the crew. He was just laughing, smiling day on set so i really enjoyed that movie and a star is born was just like bradley cooper is just a professional he's so like we knew that was going to win some awards and it was cool to be a part of but i think my issue and why i left was one i was 26 and everybody else at warner brothers with my same job was in their mid, late forties.
So I could just see this like future of myself sitting in this desk, not enjoying life. So like, where do I go from here? Exactly.
So that was probably the biggest reason I left. And then I was kind of just like frustrated with the Hollywood movies that cost 20 million to make and had all this waste.
Like I was like, dude, we could film this with our friends for like with crew of 10 people and make something awesome so i i left and started doing youtube oh wow yeah i know i've uh you know being on set you definitely learn a lot and things like that i remember i was on set for something and they brought out like this magazine as a prop and then they were and someone was like someone maybe in production was like you know how much this cost you know and it was like hundreds of dollars and it was like it was like it was garbage it was an old magazine but because like of all the rules and sag and yada yada like it had to be like a certain prop and then that you know and it gets inflated and yeah it's a lot of hidden costs there is a production of a lot of waste a lot of sitting around it's not as glamorous people think so how did come about? I remember when Nick saw your tagline on Traders. He was like, aw, that's so nice.
I know. I remember him saying, oh, this guy's Down to Earth.
Did I see Down to Earth? I was like, wow. She's like, no, that was a show.
That came like at the time, like, again, this is a while ago, but I was running Zach's YouTube channel. We were like coming up with different show ideas and the original down to earth idea was me and Zach traveling together and I think we both came to the conclusion I wasn't ready for that role really at that time like I wasn't ready to be his co-host on down to earth so I ended up actually introducing him to Darren Olean and that just like took off it was like oh they like, oh, they hit it off.
This is the right move. I'll be a producer.
And we just started filming down to earth. And it was like the first of its kind, really.
It was like it was a new genre. And again, that was fun for me.
It was like a small crew of 12 people. We traveled all over the world.
What made you feel like you weren't ready to be his co-host? I think the same reason that I haven't done any reality shows till now is like, I'm not my brother. He was on stage performing it at 12.
I was playing sports and being an idiot. I didn't become comfortable with myself till my 30s.
And I never wanted to be in the public eye. So I think just the more I I did social media and realize like, I am putting myself out there and this is who I am and I've got nothing to be afraid of.
I started to gain more confidence. Is there any and, you know, maybe there's, you know, a lot of people live with no regrets or whatever.
But is there any like envy from either of y'all sides for like the life you live? Maybe it's like the childhood you have. Like, did he ever wish he could just like go and play football with his friends and not be on stage and not be performing and like vice versa i'm sure i think it would go both ways like at the end of the day like zach and i are still brothers we still fight about a lot of stuff we like yeah and i think that we have little small jealousies of each other competitive yeah super competitive so at what At what you realize that you were going to be taller than him pretty early like was he pissed yeah he was like he was small for his age and i was really tall for my age and then there was so there was a time when i'm like maybe 10 and zach's 14 we were the same height and then he hit puberty and like got buff and stuff.
And I was left in the dust. Pretty soon I caught up.
So it's like different, obviously with girls, but I have a vivid memory of my sister and her friends being like, don't worry. Like she'll never have as big as boobs as you.
And I like one day was like, ah, here I am, bitch. Back to down to earth.
So that it started on YouTube and then where did i watch it on no so that was a netflix one yeah when we originally pitched the project it was from kind of our youtube ideation of like how about we do a travel show like let's tie in sustainability like let's actually try to like have fun traveling but also see if we can make a minor improvement in the world. And we didn't think it was going to be anything big and then it became netflix number one like we were all shocked like i was on a road trip when it came out and i see it's number one and trending i was like holy shit like because you never really know no we had so much there you know it's just like it was so be number one on netflix's and yeah i think like that that type of storytelling is that like we want to do something similar this upcoming year we have a project in mind so um i'm always fascinated with people around your age who who acknowledge or just kind of say things like you just said earlier about like not really being comfortable with yourself until like 30 or late 20s i i very much relate to that i remember being like 28 and going through like a pivotal experience a breakup of a relationship and looking back when i was like in my early 30s and kind of realizing like wow i don't really know it i like that was like uh like i felt like i was an adult when i became 28 not like you know because of like shit i went through absolutely is there any like what moments your life, in adult life were pivotal for you where you feel like you maybe learned some tough lessons or that were transformative that really can't, maybe you had to go through it, shook you up.
You know, for me, it was like a relationship, couple of relationships with a couple of different girls that are like emotionally just kind of fucked me up. And I had to, you know, learn about like what role I played or, you know, and yeah, at first it's just like, you're a victim of, you know, you know, when you're, when you're, when you're down bad, it's always like, how could this happen to me? And I think part of being an adult was the willingness to reflect about like, yeah, I can still be hurt, but I can simultaneously be upset and hurt and feel wrong and still be willing to like look in the mirror and, and figure out what I can learn from this? Do you have any moments like that that you felt were kind of pivotal defining moments in adult life? It's tough.
My life hasn't been all a cakewalk. There's definitely been some really challenging things that have happened in our family and stuff.
So I think all of that has prepped me in a good way. And I think I've always had a good head on my shoulder.
My insecurity was more of like, just being comfortable as who I am and putting it out there online, if anything. So like, maybe just that deep seated fear of seeing the fame that my brother had and not wanting to step there and stuff like that.
So I can't say there's anything in particular but i i feel like yeah i've always i've always been had a pretty level head in that way what's uh what's your love life like these days i i'm in a relationship you are okay that's a real bummer for all your fans no it's it's cool because she she's actually not on social media and she works a 40-hour week job.

Like, it's cool.

How did you guys meet?

Originally in high school.

We're from the same hometown.

Of course she works.

High school sweetheart.

It works out really well.

Like, it's not like I'm hiding her from the world or anything.

Like, she understands the job, like, all that stuff.

She doesn't really like being on camera.

She loves your guys' podcast. I wouldn't know about it.
Oh,'t know about it if she really yeah she's the one that introduced me love that when you what are your tattoos from just different times i've traveled okay just spur of the moment like this was supposed to be a free tattoo in malta i was going to get on my leg and then it turned into this okay and then this was in costa rica this was the first tattoo i ever got but i just i wanted something like feminine in a way because i thought tattoos are so masculine looking i was like oh yeah a lot of my tattoos i realized it's like i don't have a cross a skull bone and i have butterflies and let's see a puppy dog yeah it's a butterfly it's good it balances it out i wasn't thinking feminine and I just more got him. I'm like, Oh shit.
This is who I am. That does make sense.
When did you start getting tattoos? Probably like 26, 27. I always wanted them growing up.
I always thought they were cool. It was just, you know what the best part about getting a tattoo is like, if you've ever wanted a tattoo, it's so easy to get talked out of them.
Like your parents will say it's don't do it. You can't get work.
You can't get jobs. There's so many reasons to never do it.
But once you actually go through, you sit in that chair for a couple hours, you book the reservation. It's like so gratifying to be like, wow, I did it.
Like something I wanted to do, I just did. Yeah.
I mean, I've enjoyed the, kind of like you, like reminders or, you know, reminders of family members. They meet they're they're meaningful things but yeah like i mean i didn't get them until i was 40 yeah it was mostly because mostly like just i was working in corporate america and then i you know and then i was like i felt like i was too old to get them or something and and then i met natalie and she kind of gave me a permission to lean in you're not too old yeah definitely let's do it our mutual friend Shug said that you and I'm gonna say

like kind of gave me a permission to lean in you're not too old yeah definitely let's do it our mutual friend suge said that you and i'm gonna say like what it is wrong but you like tie a rope to two mountains and you like free walk or something yeah high lining high lining that's crazy how did you it's like isn't it you tie a rope it's like it's called high lining it's like slack lining between two mountains. So you're way up in the sky and you're pretty much tightrope walking.
And is there safety measures? There are. Okay.
Same with rock climbing. Most of the time, these activities are safe.
They look really scary and they are dangerous in a way, but if you're doing them right, they shouldn't be dangerous. Gotcha.
Yeah. Driving is dangerous.
Yes, exactly. Do it right.
But it's based on balance, right? Yeah, based on balance. it's based on balance right i mean you have to be based on balance a lot of it's exhausting being out there like you have you have to pull yourself up you have to it's a it was one of the harder sports i've ever learned that's for sure what made you want to learn that i'm big into rock climbing and like i remember being a kid on a hike seeing people rock climb i was like damn i want to do that someday again all of a sudden i'm of age and i'm like what's holding me back from that fast forward i'm out there rock climbing and i see highlanders and i'm like damn i want to do that someday have you ever met dean ugler no do you know who dean ugler is that's a great name though he was on the bachelorette uh one of the more famous contestants very attractive man like yourself uh big rock climber, big, big traveler.

Also doesn't advocate for daily showers.

Here we go.

Do I stink right now?

For anyone listening, he smells.

Well, you don't, I didn't.

I swam today, so I got the chlorine,

just killed everything.

Chlorine, thank God for the chlorine.

Yeah, chlorine. What is up with you against daily showers? No.
All right. I need to clear the air.
Some parts were cut out of that interview. A shower a day is okay.
I was saying that people shower too much. And like, I don't think every time we shower, we need to scrub our old bodies and clean our shins with soap.
Sure. Yeah.
You clean all six cracks and then you're good. I can shower in 60 seconds if I need that.
Yeah, totally. Six? Six cracks? What are the six? You don't know the six? What are the six? You're the dirty one over here.
Whoa. One, two, four, sides where are these next i count five okay armpits there's like three okay so you might have six so you do this is getting weird so you do shower i do shower yeah i but you just don't love soap that much that that might be i'm not soaping myself crazy every day like i i'll clean i'm not dirty i'm okay with being dirty like i love camping i love a lot yeah when i'm home i'm clean um but like so like i love going in the ocean i'll like rinse off after going in the ocean but i don't think i need a whole nother soap fest after that you don't feel like you need to like wash all the salt off you're kind of like oh well that happens if I just rinse off, going in the ocean, but I don't think I need a whole nother soap vest after that.
You don't feel like you need to like wash all the salt off? You're kind of like, oh. Well, that happens if I just rinse off, right? For sure.
Yes. I'm losing the sweat on her.
Yes, yes, yes. So like I showered this morning, went to the pool, and then like showered off in the little.
You showered and then went to the pool? Yes, yeah. I'm showering a lot these days.
Oh my God. It's too much water.
I feel like you were going to go to the pool. It's not a necessary shower.
I didn't know it was a decision i was like it's sunny out i'm gonna go swim um but yeah so i woke up and showered believe it or not like a like your pool no like the one in my gym okay yes but then after i did that i'm just in the right in front of the camera scratching okay we'll cut. We'll cut to the close.
Okay. Yeah.

So then like,

yeah,

after the, booey,

get over here.

After the pool,

I just like used the public shower right there,

rinsed the chlorine off in a way.

I still smell like chlorine,

I'm sure.

Did you grow up outside

and doing a bunch of swimming

and hiking

and all that kind of stuff?

Definitely.

Did you grow up in LA?

No,

I grew up in San Luis Obispo.

So it's, that's what you do there. Is that california it's in california like pismo beach have you been to santa barbara it's very similar to that it sounds like you're just saying like you're like mumbling words together san lisbispo we go yeah there okay so you grew up there and you grew up doing all of this stuff so this isn't a new thing that that you just picked up.
No, it's definitely like... It's been always outdoorsy.
And it's, well, yeah, we didn't have many options. It was a small town we grew up in.
Like I'd say on the weekends, people would show up to the movie theaters. There'd be like fights, hang out with girls.
It was like, there wasn't anything to do. So my friends and I would like road trip.
We'd go rock climb. We'd go out and just get out of our little town what extreme sport do you want to try next i really want to get my skydive license just i've been skydiving a ton but i always have a guy on my back and i think it takes they're always creepy it's always weird we're trying to fuck your girlfriend you know it's just like i just don't and then it I don't know.
You see like the people that do it solo. They've got like helmets and they're doing cool stuff.
Like I'm honestly just like... Should we take classes together? Oh, I'm super down.
I've only skydive once. It was an amazing time.
Natalie and I were gonna skydive together for my friend Peter's 40th birthday party, but weather did not cooperate. So we ended up not going.
I'm pretty sure Dean is like, he does it by himself. Dean also has learned to go by himself.
I need Dean's number. You better DM me after this.
You guys have a lot in common, for sure. But yeah, I'll- Let's do it.
Honestly, it's one of those things. So much fun.
Again, it's like skydiving's safe. They have so many backup ways.
I don't know. The one time we went skydiving, we obviously had a million questions and what's it feel like? If you've never skydived before, you feel like it's like a roller coaster and it doesn't feel like that because you're already flying, I don't know how many miles per hour when you jump off the plane.
So it doesn't feel like you're falling at all. It just feels like you're flying, which is cool.
But then you like, yeah, remember asking them and they were just saying like you know like safer than driving and like the only time you really have skydiving accidents is when you have like the extreme sport guys like doing tricks and testing certain limits but if you kind of play by the rules and pull the chute when you're supposed to pull it like it's a relatively safe uh activity and then i think that's that's what draws me to a lot of these sports is like there's rational fear and irrational fear and so much of it is irrational fear it's like you see someone skydiving you're like oh my god he's falling out of an airplane and you you have all those worries like what if i hit the ground what if i do all these that's all irrational like once you actually know the equipment know you have a backup shoot know like what to do like the margin of error is super small so i like conquering that knowing the difference between like danger and fear exactly so i love conquering that fear getting to know you from this watching this show i got the impression that you are like many people who listen to this show a huge huge reality TV fan. Yeah.
Is that accurate? I am. Yeah.
It's fun. What shows, like, first of all, how did you get into reality TV as a fan and what have been some of your favorite shows? Survivor was the day one.
Like I watched all the old school Survivors and quite a few of the new seasons as well. So when I showed up to the castle and it was a bunch of like the all timetime best survivor players i was like holy shit like if i played survivor now it'd be with a bunch of strangers but here i am in a castle playing with like my childhood heroes like that was pretty cool and i'd seen all their seasons so yeah survivor was definitely my first dabble into it and then yeah my girlfriend just watches a lot of them too.
So like I'll just be sitting down.

All of a sudden I've watched a whole episode of Southern Charm.

And it's like there's some funny shit that goes down in this stuff.

So she got you to watch reality TV.

Does she participate in your extreme sports?

Yeah.

She does.

I just posted something of us rock climbing Joshua Tree.

She's a trooper.

What a badass.

She can keep up.

Damn. Are you Team Craig or Team page um this is southern charm partly partly oh oh yeah yeah yeah i'm team page page all right are you not i mean i i i know page but i know craig so i mean i mean i'm rooting for them both they broke up but like i i'm that's funny you just took you just took the switzerland approach yeah he put you on the spot and i'm like well i love them both i don't like barely watch the show with the narrative that's online i i don't agree with page i agree with craig see i don't even know the narrative so i shouldn't i'm not the right answer i just know i think page is friends with s Paige is definitely the same for answer Paige is friends with Sierra right? She is Yes Oh yeah there you go That's my loyalty Sierra's not mad at me Oh Because I was I had West's back a little bit in their drama so I think she's a little You're going to be in Switzerland again I was not You weren't? No I definitely was not I am always looking to add new pieces to my wardrobe, but finding the time to go shopping these days is getting harder and harder.
I've always been hesitant to do a clothing subscription service because an algorithm can't truly know my style, but I love the idea of a personal stylist who can fully understand what I'm looking for. And that's why I love our next sponsor, Daily Look.
Daily Look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily Look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape, preferences, and lifestyle.
It's not an algorithm. It's a real personal stylist.
And you get the same stylist every single time. So you build that rapport.
They learn what you love, what you don't like. They really find great pieces just for you.
That means you can try up to 12 premium pieces per box in a comfort of your own home, saving you time and effort. There's nothing worse than being in a dressing room and having to share a mirror with everyone else and getting opinions from everyone else about what you're choosing to try on.
But not with Daily Look. You get to do it in the comfort of your own home.
And every time a Daily Look box shows up at our doorstop, Natalie acts like it's Christmas morning and it's amazing. I mean, that's why that's why they work with established brands and up and coming designers.
Your box can feature names like Kate Spade, AG, Good American, Girlfriend Collective, Spiritual Gangster, and more. Daily Look has sizes for almost everybody from extra small to 3X and 0 to 24.
It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code VIALL for 50% off your order.
That's 5 zero. Once again, that's dailylook.com backslash VIALL for 50% off and make sure you use our promo code VIALL so they know we sent you.
One last time, dailylook.com promo code VIALL. Did you know that a single scratch of Teflon cookware can release over 9,000 microplastic particles?

Jesus, that's scary.

It blew my mind to find out that the amount of plastic in brain samples has increased 50% since 2016.

Knowing all of that, I made that switch to caraway.

I just got a new caraway set.

I cook with caraway wherever I am.

I love it.

I'm obsessed with it.

We'll be cooking with caraway for a long time.

Obviously because they're safe, first and foremost. It's crazy that there's not safe options out there, but the sad part is there is.
So make sure that you are cooking with safe options from Caraway. No longer do you have to worry about some of those harmful chemicals seeping into yours and your family's bodies.
With Caraway, they make that non-toxic cookware made modern. It's non-toxic cookware, and it's also incredibly easy to clean it looks nice you can cook anything i cook everything on my caraway it is absolutely fantastic it's truly cookware that i feel safe and love cooking and i'm someone who cooks almost every you know five six times a week caraway kitchenware is crafted with sustainable non-toxic materials like fse certified birch wood premium stainless steel naturally slick ceramic and more to help you create a safer, healthier home.
I absolutely am obsessed with my Caraway and you will be as well. We did the math and there is no better time to make the healthy swap to Caraway.
Our favorite cookware set will save you $150 versus buying the individual items. Plus, if you visit carawayhome.com slash V-I-A-L-L-1-0, you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase.
This deal is exclusive for our listeners. So visit carawayhome.com slash V-I-A can take an additional 10% off your next purchase.
This deal

is exclusive for our listeners. So visit carewayhome.com slash viall10 and use code viall10 at checkout.
Careway non-toxic cookware made modern. What made you want to go on Traders? So I'd watched Traders.
I watched US season two and my fear was that there wasn't that much strategy. Like I love strategy.
I love, yeah, I don't know. I love trying to think outside the box.
Were you proved wrong? Well, so then I started watching more because I had heard that I might have a chance to be on the show. So I'm like, oh, all right, let's do some research.
So I watched like all the UK seasons. I watched the Australia season.
I definitely watched more than anyone on that show. So i've seen the game play out in a bunch of different ways do you think that uh kind of getting back to traders do you think that helped you did it do you think that benefited you or was it ended up being just a lot of tv that you watched it definitely benefited me um probably not as much as i thought it would because the the different seasons are different like australia is in a completely different castle the uk version you know what there's one funny story is so boston rob's strategy was to as a trader to get rid of anyone who said his name and he he came up with that strategy on his own he's like no no one everyone's afraid like if as if me as a faithful says Boston robs a traitor, everyone's like, oh, well that's safety for Dylan because he's onto a traitor.
If Boston robbed a traitor. Does that make sense? So.
Like if you say the name of the traitor, you think you'd be safe because why would they come after that person? It'd be so obvious. Like what I did with Bob the drag queen.
I was saying his name very early. I made it very public, hoping it would give me safety that night.
Right. So he did right so he did the reverse he did the reverse he started to go after those people and then anticipated using the assumed narrative as his protection exactly he he did the reverse reverse or whatever so it's a brilliant strategy but then like so it almost but he almost like had to execute on that strategy too much it seemed like yes and and the flip side is like i watched a season in australia that the guy did the exact same strategy and he lost so like there is someone who's thought of the same strategy and it didn't work out for them so i don't think boston rob it seems like a great strategy to definitely make your mark yeah on the season yes and and be a focal point but it has its limits it feels like yeah and not win it's a strategy that will make waves but not win almost yeah and and look the people the boston robs that are playing this game it is very very tough for them to win like yeah there was probably a one percent chance he was going to win this game just because there is so much lore about these gamers that they're targets and do you feel like that benefited you kind of being this like, no one really knows who you are and they kind of find out like who you are.
And it's kind of like, oh, for sure. Kind of the same as Sam.
Yeah. I actually wanted to bring this up.
So I left the castle and then the cast has been announced. So I listened to your guys' podcast.
Trust me, the bar was very low for me. No like no you guys were one of the few like i'm telling you it's a hot take natalie said that she thinks i'm gonna win i did you did i'm telling you that is the hottest take i've i've heard and you agreed you didn't say i think you said that you play you gotta play the tape but you said that i could see him going far okay and i'm telling you that's a hot take the bar was low.
People are like, why the hell is this guy on the show? Really? That's so funny. I don't remember saying that at all, but I stand by it clearly.
People said that about Nick when he went on Special Forces. I remember people being like, oh my God, he's not going to last a day.
He's not going to. And I mean, he ended up winning that show too.
So it is funny how people like have this perspective that like you're going to suck and then to like prove them all wrong. And it's a's great place to be in like like i said like the bar was so low for me on this show that you're just because you're just the pretty brother and as so as soon as i like said the right vote once everyone's like this guy's a genius it's like it's like no i'm very much not a genius but the bar was that low like i literally just had to not go on and shoot myself in the foot and people are gonna going to be like, that guy actually has a brain.
So did you go, what was your strategy going into it? My strategy was honestly Sam's strategy. Like if you watch Sam's season, I think he played the strategy that I wanted to do to a T.
Like he went in, was very quiet, but listening to everybody the whole time, it didn't make for great TV in the beginning. Like he was barely in the beginning, but that whole time he's learning the game.
He's learning everybody. And then once it was time for him to step up, he stepped up, got a trader.
Like he was figuring it out. And I, I, that was a strategy I wanted.
Like I hate arguing. So I did not want to go into that round table with all these big personalities and argue.
Who, who hurt you the most by betraying you with the Boston Rob or or danielle oh no yeah i wasn't hurt by boston rob honestly the thing is like i never felt betrayed when i figured out they were traders it's it's very much a like crazy amounts of respect that they were able to do that because that show is really hard and what people don't see is like they they're playing the role of a traitor 24-7. The car rides, the like anytime the cameras aren't on, they still have to be a traitor.
And pretend to be a faithful. Yes.
More importantly. So it's a crazy role that they signed up for.
So as soon as I would figure out someone's a traitor, I'm like, honestly, like respect. And it's fun.
It's a fun position to be in once you are pretty sure someone's a trader, because then you can see them manipulating you, but you have the upper hand. I feel like a great strategy would be, and there's a big if because it requires you to figure out who the traders are.
But if you are clever enough or lucky enough and confident enough to figure out who the

trader is i feel like the best approach would be like to befriend them and get close to them not let anyone know what you think and let them think that you think there's no way they could be a trader and get some kind of protection without it being any type of actual alliance and that's absolutely the best strategy. And I got very lucky.

Like, I think you see in episode one,

I tell Danielle, you're my number one.

Like, that was a strategy to be like,

hey, I want to have someone that like,

I can trust in this game that we're going to go to the end.

I said that day one, though, I don't know anything.

So like, it was just making an alliance.

I had no idea she was a traitor at that time.

So like, that's very lucky, but that was executing that trader angel strategy.

Boston Rob didn't know he was a trader, but like he's in my alliance.

We're super close.

So like there's two.

Carolyn, again, day one, we rode in the car together.

It was me, Carolyn, and Danielle all in an alliance.

So like all of my closest people were traders. Who are you not in an alliance with? Gabby.
No, like you have a bunch of alliance. Like I thought I was in a survivor alliance with Tony and Jeremy and then I'm watching it back and Jeremy's like, I don't trust that kid.
So you have a bunch of different alliances, but some of them are more important to you than others. Like my relationship with Carolyn and Danielle, I took very seriously.
And like when I told Carolyn that Danielle said her name, like I did not want to do that. Like the whole show, I am trying to bring Carolyn and Danielle together.
I had no idea what was going on upstairs. Like I was like the best.
You guys are like, I like you both. Why are you fighting? I'm friends with you both.
It just, it did not click for me. I'm just like, guys get along.
And they're both like, he doesn't know, like, shut up. So you really didn't take offense to either Carolyn or Danielle trying to manipulate you because they, they both did, right? Like they both leaned on your friendship.
Carolyn leaned on the fact that like people have her for the wrong reasons in the past. And as a fan of Survivor, you know her plight and yada yada the whole time.
That's just her trying to manipulate your guests like whatever. Danielle, we've heard from multiple people and the accusations about her swearing on family members and things like that.
But you didn't really, it, you didn't really, you just, it's all, all fair. And yeah, game of traitors.
For me, it was a game like, like at the end of this, Danielle just played the villain role to a T. Like she signed up to be a villain.
She knew she was going to be a villain and she is hated by America for being a villain. Like she really hated right now.
That's such a shame. She got a lot of flack more, more than she deserved for playing a game in a castle.
Literally. So that was hard to see outside the show that people were going after her so much.
But yeah, I just had respect because she played it 100%. She was trying to win.
Same with Carolyn. And I think that one was harder.
People always wanted me to say, why did I choose Danielle over Carolyn? It's like at that point, I knew they were both traitors. So it's like I don't owe either of them anything.
And I'm going to do what's best for my game, which was to work with Danielle because we had that trust. Do you think Danielle has any hard feelings towards Brittany? We'll see at the reunion.
That comes out at the reunion for sure. I think there's still some, they need to get together off camera and just hash some things out, I think.
I appreciate your position and I would be a little, I mean, I guess I don't really care, but I'd be a little like, not surprised, but like it would seem like a double standard of Danielle's given the fact that she played her game and she played it well to your point and she played it ruthlessly and she played to win so how can she get mad at anyone else including Brittany for doing exactly the same it's just like you know at the end of the day like everyone's someone crossed her and someone you know she crossed a lot of people, Danielle. And like if it's all fair in Love and War or whatever, all fair like under the guise of like we're playing a game, then it seems weird that she would expect any type of specific loyalty from Brittany.
Totally. You know? And that's kind of my stance on it too.
At the reunion, they, they talked about the reindeer games again,

like whatever happened on that,

in the elf forest or whatever.

Like,

that was their show that when, when Brittany like crossed her again.

And it's so that they talked about that for a couple minutes.

Like it was heated again.

And like,

I think Andy's just like,

what are they talking about?

Like,

it's not trade or sell.

We're moving on.

But like,

I think that's the thing is like, they themselves gamers they're proud of their gameplay i think we just need to keep that gameplay in the game and then outside it's like we can't be offended at what happened yeah so i actually don't think danielle's mad at britney for crossing her again i think it's more they just have some issues they need us all i don't know i hope they work

through it i'll be switzerland uh did you enjoy your time with tom yeah i actually did so so the

very first conversation he gets out of the car i was like you look really familiar and he's like

well yeah i'm like i got talked about in the white house and and like i was the most hate i'm the most hated man in america i was like oh i was like i do know who you are from the vile files and and like i didn't realize literally until i get home and tell my girlfriend the story that she was like you probably shouldn't have like that's not a good it wasn't his best moment so it's like saying oh i know you for this for this. Yeah.
So, but it was.

I'm trying to get Tom back on.

He does seem like he's in a great spot right now.

I mean, he left that traitor's house feeling respected.

Totally.

I was happy for him.

I mean, listen, he fucked up.

We know what he did.

Totally.

Not a good moment for him.

And like, you know, sometimes he can be a little stubborn

and like a little like, you know, make it, give the impression he's not like grasping what people are frustrated at him for and you know yada yada yada but like he has redeeming characteristics you know and like it gets frustrating as some like i got to know him on special forces and you got to know him on traitors and you're just like i don't know he's certainly not a perfect person he's full Yeah. You know, like I can roll my eyes and get frustrated, but he's not evil.
No, you know, he's definitely not a bad person. I've met way worse people and way like people I would trust a lot less than Tom Sandoval.
Totally. He's absolutely sincere.
And like, like you said, like you need that Tom Sandoval friend. Like if, if this show is 20 of me, it would have been the most boring show in the world.
But the Toms of the world, they're so different than me. Tom is like, when that singing challenge happened, he's so excited.
That is genuine enthusiasm that he gets a chance to sing. And it's so easy to make fun of and poke fun of him.
But props to someone that knows this is a passion of theirs. He doesn't care.
He doesn't care. He's going to go up there and sing his heart out.
And it's like, it's, he, he's genuinely very, he's like, he's funny. He's just funny.
He makes great television. It was, it was a great way to be introduced to Tom, not knowing anything about him.
And like, I can't say our relationship was all roses.

Like there were so many times where we're just butting heads and just like, just like

telling him to shut up.

It was just like, we butt heads a lot.

But then the day it's like, I know he's sincere in everything he's saying.

And we actually became friends.

So it's, yeah, it was just a fun perspective, not knowing his past and being able to judge

someone on what I see.

And I liked what I saw.

He's goofy.

I don't know it was going to be okay my strategy with that was one i knew i had to distance myself from boston rob a little bit i just like kind of figured that out so then i was like all right well who am i gonna pair up with and tom just immediately stands up and goes dylan be my partner and i like didn't even i was just like yeah sure i was like if it's a physical challenge we're going to crush it it's like i i know how to work with him like like i said we butt heads but like i can work with them so i was like well we're gonna win and then once we lost i was like i am gonna lose this show because i got married to tom sandwall and i was, why did you guys lose? Cause it felt like three teams. It went to a tie.
Past the test. Yeah.
Like we got all the money we needed to, but then only one of the teams was going to get a shield and we didn't get the shield. Yeah.
I was, I was pretty impressed in that moment by you. I probably could have done it, but I, I would have been a little squirmish.
It was so funny because again, I thought Tom was going to crush it. He was on Special Forces.
I was like, we got this. And then as soon as it starts, he puts the death grip on my hand.
And he looks up here and he's like, yeah, this is nothing. We're all good here.
And I was like, oh no, this is a phobia. and I immediately like switched gears from like this is this is nothing we're all good here and i was like oh no like this is this is a phobia and i immediately like switched gears from like this is all fun to like working with tom on special four he was like tom was the guy who's you know if it was a real military situation he would run into the battle without thinking twice for sure he actually passed the most challenges i'm not surprised i'm not yeah i'm not just it was he he struggled with the taking the directions and the emotional the regulation aspect of it but the actual like uh challenges he was an absolute animal i believe it he did have a funny like meme of him running up a hill or something i don't know if you saw that that.
It's a pretty funny run. It was like a, like an anime character.
Would you do special forces? Yeah. I like that.
That all sounds fun to me. Like that is.
You would do very well. I would be disappointed in you if you, if you didn't finish.
I would, I would. I would do some research and like try to figure out all the strategy and stuff, but like far, no, there's no strategy.
Yeah. Like tell me to jump jump on like off a boat onto a helicopter like i would pay to do that so like and that shit's fun yeah that's the fun part it's there it's survive it's true it's the strategy is mental survival and and and not quitting and yeah i would love that getting no food no sleep feeling fatigued feeling emotionally weaker every minute of every day.
And literally being like, if I can get 10 more minutes, it's 10 more minutes. And you get 10 more minutes.
You're like, all right, well, 10 more minutes. And you do that for three days.
That's got to be fun to look back at, though. Oh, one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.
I don't even know how many people watched it. Totally people watched it it was certainly not as popular as traders and you know like but just the personal experience uh there is very cool and that's the draw to do that show and i was very like i'm i'm very excited one day if my kids ever give a shit about like i hope they never ask or watch me on the bachelor and that's one thing i will i i can be proud of.
That dad did this. And they can think I'm cool or something like that.
I used to compete in Ironmans. There's nothing fun about that.
But looking back and being like, wow, I was in good enough shape to run an Ironman in 10 hours. It's fun just knowing that you were able to push yourself that hard.
Whether you're trying to grow out your hair or heal damaged strands, get to the root of your healthy hair goals with Whey's scalp care that will get your strands looking stronger, fuller, and healthier. Their hair and body products are made to be effortless and work for you and your routine.
Listen, it's hard to find hair products that work for your hair, way works for everybody. I love so many of their products.
They have an amazing detox shampoo, which is really good if you've been doing a lot of slick back moments, a lot of hairspray, a lot of just like hair products you haven't washed your hair in a while. The detox shampoo cleanses product buildup, hard water deposits, dirt oil, and other impurities.
They also have a really great scalp and body scrub that I honestly give to everyone for holidays because it smells absolutely delicious and I can feel my skin getting softer as I use it. The scalp and body scrub gives your scalp and skin a fresh start.
It's gentle sugar crystals scrub away build up while softening and balancing your skin's moisture level. They exfoliate any dirt flakes and impurities away by using the scrub before your favorite shampoo.
The way to a healthy scalp starts here. Go to T-H-E-O-U-A-I.com and use code V-I-A-L-L for 15% off any product.
That's T-H-E-O-U-A-I, the way, dot com, and use code V-I-A-L-L. So you know that we don't have cats, but many members of our household do.
And like many of our listeners, I'm assuming you, there's many cat owners and cat lovers out there as well. And if you have a pretty little kitty at home, then you need to check out Smalls.
Smalls cat food is protein packed recipes made with preservative free ingredients you'll find in your fridge and it's delivered right to your door. That's why cats.com named Smalls their best overall cat food.
At this point, you might be wondering why can't you just feed your cat kibbles? Well, believe it or not, your cute kitty descended from ferocious desert cats who hunted live prey for food, and your cat isn't any different. They still need fresh protein packed meals to be their best.
Other cat food brands know this, but they choose to put their wallets first. They fill their foods with mystery meat byproducts, artificial flavoring, and preservatives with names I don't even want to know how to pronounce.
And if that sounds gross, imagine having to eat that every day. So treat your cat better with Smalls.
After switching to Smalls, 88% of cat owners reported overall health improvements. That's a big number.
The team at Smalls is so confident that your cat will love their product that you can try it risk-free. That means that they will refund you if your cat won't eat their food.
So what are you waiting for? Get great cat food delivered directly to your doors by the good people at Smalls. Give your cat the food they deserve.
Head to smalls.com and use promo code VIALL at checkout for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. That's the best offer you'll find, but you have to use our code VIALL for 50.
That's half. Did you know that the subcutaneous formulation of Cosentix, Secukinumab, is included on most formularies for privately insured patients? We are committed to making sure your patients can start and stay on Cosentix.
Our dedicated team of experienced professionals is here to make onboarding seamless and efficient for you and your patients. We'll help your office navigate health plan coverage and reimbursement processes so that your patients can get started on Cosentix quickly.
Thank you. So what's next for you?

What is next for me?

I'm just open. I've done a lot of things and I, let's see.
Like my bread and butter is travel shows. So I want to keep doing those like on YouTube, making documentaries.
I love that micro type of show where it's like the camera's there with you and you're in a foreign environment learning something. Did you ever you ever watch Dirty Jobs? I've seen it.
Like, that's like my favorite thing. Like, just being out in the world, seeing something you're unfamiliar with and learning and the camera being there learning with you.
Like, that's my favorite thing. So I want to do more of that, but I'd be open to acting.
I'd be open to more shows. So you would be open to acting now.
Yeah, I would. Now that you've got a little bit of a taste and a little bit of notoriety, this experience of being kind of thrusted into the limelight and getting a little bit of attention and fame, it's been okay? Yeah, I don't think anything's changed for me, really.
But the acting side is more like, again, as a 12-year-old, I was like, I will never act. It's not who I am.
And that was just limiting myself in a way. Where I do think there are quite a few roles that I could do well in.
Like, I'm not going to play Ted Bundy tomorrow like my brother. Like, he has put in countless hours of work perfecting his craft.
There's a lot of roles that are similar to who I am as a person. What would be a fun role that you saw that you were like, I could do that? Into the Wild or something like that? The old survival movie? That would be freaking awesome.
Yeah, there's so many... Have you studied acting at all? No, but I think that's also fun because I think you can learn on the spot.
You can hire acting coaches and there's something authentic about when you haven't done all that. Are you the type of person who would lean on your brother given the fact that like, listen, he just, he's the top of his game.
He's got connections and access, or would you stubbornly not want to do that because you want to like prove to yourself that, you know, you can do it without the help of your brother, but, or are you just it he's my one of my best friends like why not why not have him help i would ask him for sure i would ask for help but again it's like i i don't want to jump into it i'm not going to be like guest starring on stuff and like i i'm happy where i am like i i love what i do on social media i love like this life that I've kind of crafted outside of stardom.

So like if the right role comes, I'm going to jump on it.

But what about marrying your high school sweetheart?

Do you think like that?

Is that something you're into?

Or are you guys just like going to be boyfriend and girlfriend forever?

No, that's definitely. She sent a question.

She knows the answer.

She knows the answer.

We're working on it. Okay.
So there's a deadline. No, there's no.
Courtney's so down to earth. She would never like, look, we're 30.
I'm 33. She's not going to put a deadline on me.
So you guys have like, it seems like a healthy, we've known each other forever approach to this relationship. Yeah.
Yeah. And I am now in that stage, like I am looking at the next chapter i want kids i want i want to want kids yeah definitely like i've got a little brother and sister that are like four and five now so i like i've got to see the joy of like them growing up and i want that for myself too do you see yourself being more of a girl dad or it's tough so like as soon as olivia was born i immediately became a girl dad like i wanted a girl so bad and now that they're getting older i went to some dance recitals and like i'm seeing that side of it where like henry is just like me like me and hen like i'm i'm telling henry which plants are edible and he's just sticking them in his mouth.
He's like playing fetch type stuff. He's just me and runs and falls down and he'll play baseball.
I see myself as both, honestly. I would love to have both.
That's a tough one for me. Is there anything that you are afraid of? You seem like you really just go head head first into anything but is there something yeah

no I'm still afraid of so much but I just love proving myself wrong I think that goes back to the acting it's like that is something I was afraid of growing up but I want to prove that I can do it so what about insecurities I still don't like public speaking like like you said this feels like I'm talking to friends and it's like very casual but like tell me to go like on stage and give a speech that's like a nightmare i didn't even want to speak at the round table you were you really were i mean at first you were pretty there was a moment early on where you i almost was like i don't know he's kind of outspoken right now and he's he's almost too right you know and he was and then and you, and then you, you calm down. Yeah.
I got to calm down. It's maybe the wrong word.
Did, did, I mean, it was, I think when you went after Bob, the drag queen was his response when he kind of jumped at you and called you, you know, misguided and said, your brother sucked at acting or all the, you know, did that kind of make you like, you know what? Cause I was like, damn. It didn't't.
So like the whole, like my mindset on that, I was like, I knew I had to say his name at the round table because I wanted that safety net. Like I wanted everyone.
I had told enough people his name that he knew I was saying his name. But if I say it at the round table, then if I die the next day, if they murder me, it's going to put a major red flag on him him so I knew I had to say something and I knew I was going to get destroyed like it was just like before I the words even came out of my mouth I'm like I'm gonna get chewed up so bad so it was like I knew what I was getting into my takeaway from that was that after we finished Bob the drag queen was just like hey props for doing for doing that.
And like treated me like an equal, which was so like, that would, that meant a lot to me. Cause he easily could have doubled down and just been like, that's what you get for, for speaking up against me.
Like I put you in your place type thing and just bullied me a bit. So he, he was even like, he was playing the game.
He was playing. And that's the best part of Bob the drag queen.'s he's just a performer he is the most quick-witted person in that castle and like as soon as it was over he's like giving me a hug and being like hey you did great out there like that's bob that bought the drag queen that i know so like i would never get offended if he if he did that how many nights did you go to bed like seriously like thinking oh fuck i don't know if I'm gonna survive this? There was like I was super like if you watch back I was getting shield after shield after shield that was one of my strategies going in was like I'm gonna get every shield and like that's how I'm gonna win this game so I think I got five shields in the first six missions and then I went on the worst dry spell ever and I was going I was like I'm dead i'm dead and i it was because i thought gabby was a traitor and then that's how i eventually realized she wasn't a traitor how is watching it back then super fun yeah yeah because it's just like reliving it it was fun so it's fun to see the conversations you weren't a part of like that when sam was like trying to guess what alan wore or he made carolyn guess like i wasn't there i was like thank god i didn't walk in because i would never have known what you are yeah so that was a good strategy it was though it was like really clever it was smart it was very interesting talking to sam just because i was like man this guy is not who people think he is no he's so low-key and down to earth i was just hanging out with him like two days ago.
Did you, I mean, I know she left early, but Chanel Ion, did you get?

Oh, my God. guy is not who people think he is no he's so low-key and down to earth i was just hanging out with him like two days ago did you i mean i know she left early but chanel ion did oh my god yeah she came in you guys got you guys got a dose we had fun with her she's the best like i really hope that she gets invited back for next season because there is so much fun and drama that she brings that just did not make the screen yeah she's one of a kind do you think uh do you think they bring her back and make her a traitor oh my god please do she will put up a performance like we've never seen what would you think about you being like did you go in like just wanting to be a faithful were you open to being a traitor i wanted to be a faithful okay i was afraid like sam just flat out tells alan i want to be a faithful i was afraid that they'd feel like slighted by that being like oh so i i tried to keep it open-ended be like yeah i'm down for either i my two best scenarios were to be a faithful or to be a faithful that was recruited as a trader but But I did not want to start off as a trader.
Yeah. You know, if I ever got the opportunity, I would, I think that's the same thing.
You should do it for sure. It's really just like, if I have the, if I get asked and I have the, like I've been asked before, it didn't work out.
Like it wasn't like a ego thing or it wasn't like, oh, this isn't a show I wouldn't do. It just was like.
I just had a baby. Wasn't that why you didn't work out like it wasn't like a ego thing or it wasn't like oh this isn't a show i wouldn't do it just was like i just had a baby that wasn't that why you didn't go was that or just like just the show it's just like you know it's like you're i had i had to work around some other obligations and it didn't work and blah blah blah but like i it would be a lot of fun if i'm worried that i would have a target on my back yes i was gonna say if i if honestly if it was between you two i think natalie would do better i think you might get the wells treatment where it was like everybody trusted wells but they all knew he was capable of being a trader and it's very it's a hard spot to be in the only thing i would have going for me over wells is that like also you this is assuming people know who we both are and know our quote unquote reputations is that like wells has this like good guy everyone knows wells is smart but he's also like this you know affable everyone loves him so even i was thinking when i heard he was casted oh he would make a perfect traitor because everyone loves him and like he would be this guy or me it's like yeah people might think i'm i'm smart but like you know sometimes people think i'm the bad boy or you can't trust me or like i was the villain on batternation or i would make the good traitor and i don't i my hope if i got a chance to do it that that would because i would prefer to be a faithful too like i don't i I don't think I'm a good liar.
I mean, I know I did well on special forces, but that's not the same as like lying every day. And I love the idea of like trying to hunt.
It's fine. Who would be the traitors.
And I really, I do think I could be good at that. I think that, that, that would be the second risk for you is that like, I know our season, you can tell they were going after people who can are well-spoken so like if you are well-spoken put together a cohesive argument you're a threat to the traders yeah so the i would try to play dumb as much as i could but i don't i don't know how i would love to see you on the show i don't know how long i could how long they would get i'd get away with that did that last argument from gabby to danielle kind of win you over in the like maybe gabby's not a traitor department so that round table when gabby went after danielle yeah yeah and danielle went after gabby no i already gabby and i were in an alliance there like i think earlier in the episode you see me talking to iver saying like i might vote gabby and stuff like that that's that's the conversations you have in the morning when you don't want to show your cards okay so then me and Gabby had a conversation where we realized that we need to get Danielle out tonight and I was like you're gonna have to do a lot at this round table because like I'm not gonna speak up the same way so I was like you're gonna have to go at So me and Gabby were very much aligned.
And we knew Dolores was going to throw away a vote. And then me talking to Danielle was me waiting till the very last chance to give her a heads up that like, hey, your name's getting brought up.
And I did that just because I don't want to like blindside a girl that I've been working with this whole game so closely. So I tried to wait until the very last moment to give her the heads up so she couldn't go and strategize.
Was there any split second when she was begging you to put Ivor's name down instead of hers that you thought about it? No. Because at that point, you kind of looked like you've got to stand by your gun.
I knew what I was doing at that point. I i know but it was just the way she's like dylan please i'm begging you she was laid it on yes and i i can't like it hurt it was definitely hard to be in my my body at that moment but i wasn't going to change my vote what's the best way for someone who would go on that show to try to change the minds of people who are like coming for you like what what do you think wells could have done differently now that you can like hindsight being 2020 and you can assess his game did he make a wrong move or was it just bad luck no i don't think wells made a wrong move i i think and he might have even said this before but i think maybe when he first got accused it was so shocking to him that he maybe got a little aggressive rather than defensive or something like that like maybe he was i think he was so shocked that people were putting his name out there so that might be the difference between him and i if i got the opportunity is that like i'm kind of i'd go in being like i'm first i'm gonna be first like i'm like someone's gonna come for me there's gonna be some housewife has said some shit about you know on the fucking show or whatever and like you know someone's gonna know of me or know who i am you know from the podcast space and i'm i'm gonna you know and and so i'd just be kind of ready for that as opposed and i I would like, I think I tried to play the card of like, come on, like it's almost the opposite of Wells where it was like, it's, I'm too obvious.
The best thing that Wells did though, is like when you can be genuine in your, like there, there's definitely a moment where Wells is like, his eyes got a little watery and you could tell he was genuinely like upset. So like, i think that's the best thing you can do when you can show with your heart and your emotions like hey i'm telling the truth like i'm gonna go up there and and you're like like that that when i saw him with tears in his eyes i knew he was a faithful but again i was in this alliance and i wasn't a hundred percent sure i didn't want him to go home but at at that point, it's so early.
Everyone's just guessing. Totally.
It seems like people are not voting for who the traitor is. They're just voting to not be eliminated.
Yeah. So, yeah, I think if he would have started that argument with those tears in a way.
So you believed Danielle's tears the whole time? No. No.
But what? Yeah. I believe so when carol when caroline got eliminated what did you think of that whole i know it you know like what she was really going for yeah because i knew she was a traitor at that point so i wasn't gonna run over there and console her so yeah yeah at that point look i knew that i was very convinced that of them were traitors and it was a weird perspective seeing them act.
Do you think I thought in this, the moment with the chess board, obviously the, that Carolyn and Danielle were able to manipulate when she said, Tom and Dolores kind of pointed that out and she was like, I'm not saying you're a traitor. And she kind of got really really defensive do you think her getting defensive is what like put the target on her back I think that was showing people for the first time but let me step back even further so again like we just had the funeral um Chrishell gets murdered in the funeral right so now we're playing the game this morning of like why are we still here so for me I'm like Gabby would never have just murdered her friend and not murdered me so i'm like gabby's a faithful 100 so now let's play that game for tom and it was why the hell is tom still here gabby would never have voted like she would have voted for tom the first day so who is keeping tom in the game like who likes tom and then it clicked for both of us we're both in the car together we're like oh it's it's carolyn carolyn's the one that defends you like whenever if anyone's talking bad about tom it's she she she has a huge heart and she hates to see it so she was always defending tom so then we kind of realized we're like oh danielle's protecting me carolyn's protecting you then we get out of the car and we go to this chess game and it was like this is our highest suspect list now yeah we go to this chess game and it was like carolyn messed up if i if that was the first moment ever maybe i would have been like huh that's that's a red flag there's a literally look on your face and you're just like yeah but going in i in, I was like, Oh my God, she just confirmed what she's like, everything we just said in the car.
So it was, that was not the first flag. It was like, that was the cherry on top for us.
That makes sense. I do feel like if she, cause Dolores was like, well, you were the first one to say Tom.
And she's like, no, I wasn't. I wish I feel like if she would have been like, well, you know, he was really pitching himself and kind of like went along with it instead of getting so defensive maybe it wouldn't have been as bad and and look I Carolyn played an incredible game through eight episodes yeah like she was absolutely undetected until that car ride with I mean like having a chance to meet her for like 15 minutes and talk to her like she it's hard she's hard to read hard to read and that's what that's the flip side is it's also hard to be in an alliance sometimes because like we're me and danielle we're having one conversation a day and it was so coherent and cohesive yep we're still good carolyn and i would have opposite conversations where like i did have her back a hundred percent but she's telling me i don't and then we're both in tears tears.
And we had that conversation a few times. So as much as I did trust Caroline, I didn't trust her as much as Danielle at the end.
Because it was harder to work with her that way. Back to just you.
What do you think makes you who you are in terms of your character your your character your you know you you do seem like a really grounded down to earth like you know just like nice guy right and like i think there's a lot of people who could look like you who has a very famous brother and it's like a recipe for douche bag it really it really is like and you't seem to be. I'm sure you've had your moments.
We've all done things that we regret and we have had to learn. But where do you think that comes from? Good family and good friends.
And again, maybe having good goals too. Again, I think, like I said earlier, fame was never my goal.
and like when i left warner brothers i was like man if i could make 70k a year and like that's enough for me to have a great life so like i was never about making so much money that could buy a rolex or anything like that like i really like my priorities were being in nature like being with the people i love like i like my girlfriend grounds me my

family's super supportive so i just i think it's all the people i i'm with i don't know

it's a tough question like why are you great

i don't know but i was just curious i mean yeah just like what what you would attribute that to

it's yeah definitely my upbringing i guess because like i just i i'm blessed to have some

friends like all my high school friends i'm still so close with what's your favorite

I'm not going to be a good one. would attribute that too it's yeah definitely my upbringing is because like i just i'm blessed to have some friends like all my high school friends i'm still so close with what's your favorite family tradition it was going up to oregon's visit my grandparents that that was always something i look forward to because we'd ski for two weeks and see my aunt and uncle up there um now it's pretty much like anytime i can get up to see my little brother and sister, that's the highest on my priority.
So I took them to Montana last year.

It's just like, it's so fun to be able to share the cool parts of my life with them at their age.

Favorite holiday?

Christmas, just because all my friends are home, my family's home.

So Christmas is definitely that time.

Are you a good gift giver?

No, I'm so bad. What's your love languages? Definitely not gifts.
I don't want anything from anyone. I don't want to.
I hate even wishing people birthday. I'm so bad at it.
Oh my God. I know.
That's not my. Getting gifts as an adult almost feels like an obligation.
It's like, what do I have to do? Yeah, I'm bad at that. Love language is definitely acts of service.
No no that's how you show it or that's what you know that's what i love yeah it's generally the same yeah if you yeah i mean generally speaking if you like to show love through acts of service it's also just generally how you like to receive it too yeah i guess yeah yeah so not gifts for sure acts of service is number one yeah like if someone if someone makes me dinner that's like that's the best feeling in the world it's like that type of thing like when you can tell that some because i know how hard it is to think of someone and it's if someone makes you a cake type thing like they had to do a lot of stuff they had to go grocery shop they had to go cook all for this little cake it's like effort the effort yeah the effort is transparent yeah the effort is what i want and that when i see someone put effort into something for me like yeah it makes me tear up do you have a moment from your childhood that like sticks out as a really good memory yeah honestly it's like there's no moment in particular but the road trips with my best friends we just didn didn't know what we were doing. We were getting in over our heads.
And we'd go camping and forget the tent at the house. And then we're sleeping in the woods with a shirt.
Camping and forgot the tent? Yes. With shirts over you? We trusted my friend Evan to bring the tent and all he brought was a tarp.
So then we're in the woods. It's freezing we're all like huddled up together like the movies like stuff like that it was like we were just naive kids that were growing up in the woods and like those are absolutely my favorite memories like driving through death valley like we didn't even tell our parents we're going there now all sudden we're like 10 hours away our car is breaking down like stuff like that like we just grew up together doing stuff we probably shouldn't have yeah those are my favorite memories uh what's your uh biggest uh relationship pet peeve or and then just a pet peeve in general relationship oh yeah i was i was paying attention to you guys's uh nighttime nighttime ritual do you agree whose side are you on I'm on your side for sure like if you what specific part the person in bed should be able to stay in bed yeah and the person who's not in bed should go like my question is how big is your damn house because not for it to be a big deal for you to go back to the kitchen and grab water it It definitely was like I had to walk three flights of stairs.
It was maybe 50 steps. Go get the water.
No, it wasn't about the water. I had gotten the water.
He needed to get the remote. It was the remote.
Let's set the stage again. Your beautiful girlfriend's in bed.
she wants to watch tv let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's stage again okay you're you're you're you're you're you're beautiful girlfriend's in bed okay she wants to watch tv you've done three rounds of favors for her already you've set the house down you've gotten her some water you've done your you've done your nightly duties and then she wants to watch tv and you're like you're ready for bed you're tired you're ready to go and then she's just like i can't find this remote i need you to go get the other remote and you're kind of like you know what that sounded like an order and not a request and you being an acts of service guy i would think that like the whole point of like being an acts of service guys is feeling like you did something generous as opposed to like your job yes and i couldn't help but wonder like yeah so in those in those parameters you you've never been like no i'm not gonna do it this is why you'd be dangerous on the traders that was a good argument um but i did carry his child and give birth to her so i don't really feel like i need to be getting up once i'm in the bed i i think that's tough because then you're like watching tv in bed is that's if if you don't like are you against it are you one of those i don't

like watching tv in bed or if i like if you were gonna do that i'd want you on your laptop with headphones what crazy like you don't like to be like cozy okay okay whatever i don't have a side anymore but what is do you have a relationship pet peeve it is a funny one we both like to listen to audiobooks when we fall asleep or like audio some kind of audio and we fight over whose audio we're gonna listen to it's like are we listening to jeff lewis we both agree that we can listen to vile files um but otherwise like i have the stuff that i want to listen to is she really doesn't want to so we fight over that quite a bit but that's not a big do you cook yeah i love cooking what do you like to cook my girlfriend laughs because i'm not a good cook but i always taste great so she always says there's like secret ingredients what's the difference because i think like a lot of people have recipes and stuff like that i'm much more like i much more have like i get a meat i'll put like rice in it i'm cooking it all in the same pot like one at a time or something i'm very unorthodox cook and i'm putting barbecue sauce and glazing it with balsamic vinegar i'm like doing a bunch of different italian mexican spices okay it tastes good in them yeah and so she always thinks there's like a secret ingredient because she's like if i made this it wouldn't taste as good does she cook much yeah she cooks she she's 70 30 probably she she cooks more than me i was thinking about this last night you know what what makes nanny and i work or for the most part i would say like 80 of like the shows we like to watch food we like to eat places we like to go it's similar so like there's not a lot of debates there and then what differences like household chores like i'm allergic to laundry nanny's allergic to washing dishes in the sink and so like i just i wash i pretty much wash all the dishes. I can put things in the dishwasher.
I pretty much clean the kitchen. Other than Natalie will put things in the dishwasher.
Even the things that shouldn't go in the dishwasher pisses me off. It's fucking crazy.
You don't have to put the pot. I'll wash the pot and pans.
Don't put my knife in the dishwasher. It's not meant for the dishwasher.
This is my knife. I'm still learning the dishwasher.
I've never lived with one. Natalie just throws everything in the dishwasher.
It's just basically, the dishwasher for Natalie is a place to hide pots and pans that she refuses to wash. Sometimes if I'm out of town, there'll be like four pot, like four pans.
Oh my God, when Nick's not there, I feel so free. I'm like, I can put the knife, he'll never know, the knives, the pots, the pans, everything's in the dishwasher but i again like i fucking hate laundry washing clothes not so bad folding i would live out of a dryer like in my single days it would like do a load of laundry put in the dryer and then for the next week i'm just pulling stuff out of the dryer i swear it takes me like an hour to fold like 10 shirts i fucking hate it but.
But like, it's so works for us because like she, the things that I hate, she likes in, in vice versa. That's great.
That's a good relationship. What, what, what, like dear other thing where.
Yeah. So like, I'm still figuring out the dishwasher.
I just moved. I've never had a dishwasher.
So like I, I, yeah, I'm figuring it out. Like I'm putting the stuff that shouldn't go in there in there.
She knows. I like whoever cooks the other person cleans up after cooking.
Ideally, that would be nice. I won't let her cook.
We do have a baby that needs to be bathed. It is nice.
Natalie bathes wherever I can clean the kitchen. Yeah, that's good.
We. That's good.
We never really even had to negotiate that.

Who vacuums?

Not me.

I don't like vacuuming either.

Other than the kitchen, Natalie

cleans the whole house.

I think that's part of growing up.

Realizing that

you can keep doing

the dishes because it doesn't matter and she's going to pick up the slack somewhere else like i hate vacuuming so like i'll fill the water tank or something i'll do something else i'll try to pick up the slack it's so funny it's like there's like this some post or something somewhere that was like what do your husbands or partners do like if you're getting ready for a big event at your house, you know, Thanksgiving at your house, you're hosting, whatever, like what are your husbands or partners or boyfriends doing to like help you? And it was like, mine cleans the garage. It's like mine goes and gets his car vacuumed.
It's like this stuff that you're like, no one's going to see that. No one cares.
But like, thanks for getting that done. You know, you're like, I'm,'m i'm clean i'm refilling the water tank yeah do y'all live together yeah we just moved into again that's how i got my first dishwasher i was in a one-bedroom apartment for the longest time so that was like kind of our thing was like let's get some more space and that'll lead to a happier relationship because we were on top of each other in a one bedroom.
So like if we have space, we can be in different rooms. We can figure this out.
But I think a lot of our fights were that. I like to say that in school, I was like a B minus student.
I like did enough to pass. So when I make the bed, it's like, it's made.
It's made.

Yeah.

I'm not, I'm not flushing the pillows.

I'm not folding stuff.

I haven't made a bed since I,

since maybe middle school.

You didn't have to in,

in special forces.

It's crazy.

There was no bed.

Yeah.

There,

yeah,

there's no bed.

You have a,

well,

you have a,

you have a sleeping bag.

So making your bed is folding your sleeping bag and putting it in your, birkin but it is crazy because he loves a made bed now i've been like i've been like why isn't the bed he won't do it but he loves i've definitely been like what's what's going on here like why haven't you done your your your chores as clean sheets go crawling in one of the best feelings of the world yeah but before i i was actually in a healthy relationship I don't think I ever had a made bed that's how I would be probably what do you want to leave us with anything you didn't get to talk about or say oh yeah I have a new documentary I'm releasing this weekend which is cool just on YouTube but it's like it's probably the thing I'm most proud of there's not just on YouTube anymore man YouTube is like one of the most watched platforms in the world and i think it's that's kind of my style is like we could have tried to sell this or put it in put it like enter it in festivals but we're just proud of it we want people to see it like that's really all it is and i think it's my favorite project i've done to date but it was me and my main videographer who's just now at this point like my little brother like we've traveled the world together i met him when he was me and my main videographer, who's just now at this point, like my little brother, like we've traveled the world together. I met him when he was 18.
And yeah, so like we, we figured out how to create content, like just navigated this world together. And then this is kind of like our big project together.
We went to Guyana, South America. So we went to Guyana because we heard this story about this tiny village that lives in the Amazon,

the indigenous village that saved this species of fish

from extinction.

And this fish is the arapaima.

And it's like, they grow to 10 to 15 feet long.

They're just like prehistoric looking fish.

But that fish was going extinct.

This small village was like,

hey, we need to protect this fish.

They turned it into like,

they decided to protect them by fly fishing.

So they turned it into like they decided to protect them by fly fishing so they turned it into like a catch release fly fishing operation the fish is doing great now the village is doing great now so we went out to kind of interview the guy who started it all and catch one of those fish so it's a just one of those stories that like i'm blessed that i even heard of and the fact i got to go out there meet rovin like this when does that come out that's this weekend so this weekend so tomorrow yeah saturday this doesn't come out on friday yeah it's it's it's on it's 30 minutes so it's short but it's action-packed like we are out there in the jungle fishing with indigenous guyanese people it's it's really it's really cool it was a it was an experience well buddy it's been great getting to know you better congratulations on winning traders with with the with your peers uh it's been really fun getting to know you i hope to see more of you maybe you can come back and talk some pop culture and rally tv dude i'm in uh or even next year Traders comes out, you can strategize and talk the show with us when it's on, man. I love it.
You guys make this look fun. And it was everything I thought it would be from listening to your show.
Well, thanks for listening, man. We're always flattered.
Can you bring Courtney next time? I'm going to have to. You're going to hear the good secrets.
We'll have to double date. Can we double date?

I'm super down for that.

Yeah.

She'd love that.

Courtney will be so stoked.

You will.

Well, great getting to know you, buddy.

Yeah, same.

Thanks for listening, guys.

We will see you on Monday.

Bye. We'll see you next time.
and avoid surprises. With MyFICO, you get access to your FICO score, credit reports, 24-7 monitoring, and alerts on the go.
Take the mystery out of your score and get your FICO score for free today. Visit myfico.com slash free.
That's myfico.com slash free and discover the score lenders use most. If you've been in business for at least six months and have a decent credit score, you could get business funding in as little as 24 hours.
But you don't have to spend a ton of time going from lender to lender to find the best match for your small business. Drive your business forward with Lendio.
Just let Lendio do it for you. At Lendio, we've built a marketplace of over 75 lenders and funding partners who know what you need and can get it to you quickly.
See what your business can qualify for in just a few minutes at Lendio.com.

That's L-E-N-D-I-O, Lendio.com.