E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?

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Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 4 Good. Hi, I'm Megan.
I'm 34, and I'm afraid a conspiracy theorist is going to ruin my sister's wedding.

Speaker 1 How is a conspiracy theorist going to ruin your sister's wedding?

Speaker 4 So the conspiracy theorist is my husband's grandfather. So this is my husband's sister.
She's getting married to her partner of 10 plus years later this month.

Speaker 1 So it's the bride's grandfather.

Speaker 4 Yes, it's the bride's grandfather. Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. Grandpa.
Papa.

Speaker 4 Good old grandpa. Papa.
She wanted our advice on whether to uninvite him because they've already RSVP'd. Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. What is,

Speaker 1 I'm almost afraid to ask, but what I can give you some, I can give you more background. What's the conspiracy theory? Is there a specifics and conspiracy theory that she's trying to avoid?

Speaker 1 Like, short of a lot of people going to this wedding who have a lot of different opinions about a lot of different things, like why, why is grandpa a threat?

Speaker 4 So a little bit of background, like throughout COVID in the last like several years, he's really just gone like deep into the rabbit hole of like dark political conspiracy theories.

Speaker 4 And we're not talking like tenfoil hats or like that pandas aren't real, but like he spends all day, all night like online with this extremist misinformation cult, I guess you could say.

Speaker 4 And so like for the first few years, he wasn't like so far gone that you couldn't have a regular conversation.

Speaker 4 And we only really see them like once or twice a year around the holidays. So we would just kind of deal with it and try to redirect the conversations.

Speaker 4 Over time, my in-laws would tell us stories about them getting into like screaming matches with them for like hours when nobody else was there.

Speaker 4 We kind of like brushed it off. We thought it like was somewhat of an exaggeration.
But Christmas of 2023, we went over for dinner. Grandpa was back in the room that he stays in all day, all night.

Speaker 4 He didn't come out until dinner and something got said that triggered him to start yelling about how he's a reborn alien, the aliens are in charge, the whole,

Speaker 4 you know, thing about children being trafficked and exploited so that their adrenaline could be taken from them and pumped into celebrities' faces to stay young.

Speaker 4 So it's really like extreme conspiracy theory, a lot of anti-Semitic conspiracies. And so, you know,

Speaker 4 really just don't want there to be like a scene at the wedding because it's kind of gotten to the point where

Speaker 4 you can't have like a regular conversation with him anymore.

Speaker 1 Sounds dark. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a shame. You know, we live in weird times, but it is.

Speaker 4 And I mean, it's sad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And these sounds like some crazy, crazy conspiracy theories, right? Like you mentioned, like, human trafficking, right? Like, I'm sure, like, some conspiracy theorists.

Speaker 1 Say, let's say they were listening. You know, like, sadly, human trafficking does go on.
I don't think it's aliens or people in Hollywood sucking the blood and

Speaker 1 blah, blah, blah, all that crazy shit. It kind of reminds me of that.

Speaker 1 Was that what that... That, remember

Speaker 1 the lady who was on the airplane and she's like, that motherfucker is not real. And I don't know.
Yes.

Speaker 4 All of that is just so dark. And there's like, it's sad because there's really no talking sense into anyone.
Like, they won't even hear it.

Speaker 1 So, but to recap, the really, you know, we're not here to debate conspiracy theories or just confirm that everyone in this room doesn't agree with grandpa.

Speaker 1 But the real concern is that grandpa sounds pretty locked in and pretty pretty programmed that like you and and your sister-in-law and the bride specifically is worried that grandpa could find himself in a conversation with god knows who and at any moment accuse someone of being a child trafficking alien um and cause a dramatic scene okay yeah yeah and i you know i think she's she's torn because um she doesn't want to look back and know that one of her living grandparents like wasn't at her wedding wasn't in photos but yeah there's a major conceit a concern about causing a scene, embarrassing them.

Speaker 4 And, you know, really like just the fact that their values and belief systems are like so 180 opposite that I just feel like it's a recipe for disaster. And I think she should set some values.

Speaker 1 There's belief systems. There's like, hey, we voted for this guy and you voted for that guy.
And let's just, you know, you know, who gives a fuck today? Grandpa's giving like,

Speaker 1 you know, he's afraid the aliens are taking over. And if you think the aliens are taking over, you know, you, you're going to speak up.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, you're going to say something, you know, right now, fear is very popular to sell, sadly,

Speaker 1 and it's being sold to anyone who's willing to listen, regardless of what side of the aisle you are on.

Speaker 1 Everyone in power is trying to convince people who aren't in power that they should be afraid of the other side, which is really sad because,

Speaker 1 you know, I really believe that your grandfather is a victim in this kind of crazy world that

Speaker 1 is spewing these types of just crazy things. That being said, if he's that much of a liability, I don't think he should go.

Speaker 1 I mean, if we really think that grand you know and grandpa's like pretty you know how old is how old grandpa uh late 70s late 70s and he's like mobile and like he's he's he's like of sound mind I mean mine is his conspiracy theories he's like

Speaker 1 he's not you know like I guess I'm all like yeah Natalie's great you know Natalie's grandpa Natalie's grandpa I mean he's 90

Speaker 1 he's in a wheelchair you know regardless of what he believed in he would have a hard time communicating that so

Speaker 1 and he doesn't can believe in it but like grandpa is capable of creating a scene if he wanted to i guess, is my question.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And I think that that's like my concern is I don't think, I don't think there's a way that a scene would not be created at this point, given like how far gone he is.

Speaker 1 And is there anyone in the family who has his ear?

Speaker 4 No, he's just out on an on his own island.

Speaker 4 And like, it's really pretty sad because he's kind of alienated himself and their grandmother from everyone because he's done this with every different side of the family at this point.

Speaker 1 That's crazy.

Speaker 4 I mean, it is crazy. And it's also just so sad because my husband is like one of the calmest, most stoic people you've ever met.
And last Christmas when this blowup happened, like he even lost it.

Speaker 4 We left and we did not come back for the rest of the holiday gathering.

Speaker 1 And so somebody's got to take grandpa's toy away. What if we just disconnect his internet? I don't know.
But he lives by himself, right?

Speaker 1 It's not like he's.

Speaker 4 Yeah, they still live on their own.

Speaker 1 What about grandma? If we got to invite grandma.

Speaker 4 So I think that's the sad part is, yeah, I think she still wants grandma to come. And I think grandma could come alone but we just don't want to necessarily make her feel you know some type of way by

Speaker 1 is there

Speaker 1 excluding and I'm sure you've already thought of this but I'm just gonna ask

Speaker 1 your his his son my father-in-law your father-in-law could he go to you and be like listen I'm not here to discuss what you believe that's that is your beliefs, but like my daughter is getting married and we'd love for you guys to be there.

Speaker 1 But like we

Speaker 1 for God's sake, sake, we cannot have

Speaker 1 like we need you to just mind your business for eight hours. Like is that possible? Like grandpa wouldn't he tried.

Speaker 4 Yeah, he tried

Speaker 4 and was told to fuck off.

Speaker 4 So I mean that to me in itself.

Speaker 1 Well then we just you know

Speaker 4 the answer that we need.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think you got the answer. I mean it's not he's not giving you it.
You can't can't reason with him. He literally tried.
And his response was, fuck off.

Speaker 1 I think you just try to do everything you can to bring grandma, but I don't know. Like, is this man going to like call the cops and say, you kid met my wife? You know, like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 4 I, I don't, yeah, no, I don't know. I don't think so either.
But I, I guess, too, like, you know, my husband doesn't want him to come.

Speaker 4 His dad does not want him to come, but, you know, it's her choice.

Speaker 4 So, like, if she, for whatever reason, did decide to let him come and he does cause a scene, like, how do you think that should be handled? Well, like, who should be responsible for removing him?

Speaker 1 Probably his dad, dad, his son, you know, her dad, his son. Yeah.
All right. I mean, just out of curiosity, why is the bride still even, you know, considering this?

Speaker 4 I personally don't know. I think she's just so empathetic and she's always trying to like give people so many chances.

Speaker 4 And again, just her other grandmother is ill and not able to come. Her other grandfather is not alive.

Speaker 4 So I think she's just trying to keep like what she can in in terms of like that family unit there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a sad situation.

Speaker 1 If the bride were here, I would be like, listen, it's your wedding. Do what you want.

Speaker 1 And if you want to invite grandpa and grandpa at the risk of grandpa doing his thing, then you know, you just have to make sure that if that happens, it doesn't ruin anything else.

Speaker 1 That we all, you kind of, everyone just kind of like, okay, it's happening. No big deal.
Everyone knew this was going to happen. Let's just remove it.
Let's not create a scene. Let's move on.

Speaker 1 What we don't want is the bride to,

Speaker 1 you know, well, hey, let's just invite him because I just want to make sure my grandparents are there and it's really sad. And then grandpa does his thing.

Speaker 1 And then everyone acts like, I can't believe grandpa did that. Yeah.
You know, and then the rest of the night is focused on, I can't believe grandpa did that.

Speaker 1 Like, if we're going to invite grandpa, we just have to be prepared for it. We have to assume it's probably going to happen.
And we got to hope it doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 And if it happens, it's just like, oh, you know, it's like almost as if you scheduled in the wedding itinerary. After we cut the cake, grandpa's going to lose his shit.

Speaker 1 And then we're going to remove him. And then we're going to do the first dance.
You know, you almost have to have that mentality.

Speaker 1 Like, if I'm, that's what I would say to the bride because, like, it's almost certainly going to happen.

Speaker 1 And if, and listen, if grandma and grandpa at your wedding matters more to you than a little drama, let's bring them. Fuck it.
Who gives a shit, right?

Speaker 1 This all comes down to a matter of just perspective. And like, you know, a bride or a groom, like, who knows, you know, we have the term bridezilla, right?

Speaker 1 Or like, you know, birthdayzilla, like the per you know, the birthday boy, or who like, who says, like,

Speaker 1 this party sucks, and I wanted this, and I wanted that. So it all comes down to what the bride and groom are expecting their wedding day to be like, right? What are they focused on?

Speaker 1 Are they focused, you know, Nellie and I were just, we were just like, this is our wedding and we're focused on us and our connection.

Speaker 1 And like, we'll see how the party goes, but we really like, we hope for the best, but, and it ended up being great, but we just really focused on us.

Speaker 1 And anything that happened, I don't even know half the stuff that might have happened. I really wasn't focused on that, right? But that, I just, that was the perspective I came in with.

Speaker 1 Other people who get married, you know, they have get married and like they care a lot about the party. They want their check.
Is everyone having fun? And people having fun? Is everything going okay?

Speaker 1 They hear about something that's not going okay. They're like, they start fixing it on their own and they start freaking out.
And the wedding planner is like, no, we got it handled.

Speaker 1 The bride's always checking in. Is it handled? Is it handled? Is it handled? Like, you know, she, that person is not focused on their wedding, right?

Speaker 1 So it really comes down to the bride and groom and what will make their wedding day special? Like, will drama affect their wedding day?

Speaker 1 Will like other people talking about grandpa losing their shit make her feel embarrassed and, you know, stop her from enjoying her wedding day?

Speaker 1 And those are all valid and, you know, valid reasons, but she just has to, she has to kind of play out the scenarios and then she has to like anticipate what her reaction will be in those scenarios.

Speaker 1 Because if she is hoping for the best and that hoping for the best is grandpa doesn't lose his shit, but knowing that if the, if the best doesn't happen, it could ruin everything, then you definitely don't want grandpa to come.

Speaker 1 But if hoping for the best is hoping that grandpa doesn't lose his shit, but like if he does, he does, we'll deal with it. And it's not going to affect the wedding.

Speaker 1 It will just be something we have to like take 10 minutes to handle, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And yeah, you know, how big is this wedding question?

Speaker 4 Is it huge?

Speaker 4 Probably like 150 people.

Speaker 1 Okay. It's big enough.
Does everyone know that grandpa's a little...

Speaker 4 I don't think so. So her future wife's mom is the pastor

Speaker 4 marrying them. And I don't think a lot of her future wife's family is aware of grandpa and his behavior.

Speaker 1 Maybe they should be. I don't know.
Listen, we all have family members that are, you know, that are a little fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 You know, she's not the first. She won't be the last.
You know, this seems a fairly extreme example.

Speaker 1 But, you know, we live in divisive times, and there will be a lot of people at this wedding that are not of like minds, and that's fine.

Speaker 1 No one should be discussing anything other than the bride and groom, right?

Speaker 1 So I think he should probably not be invited, but the bride just needs to understand what she is saying yes to if she invites him and just understand

Speaker 1 what that looks like.

Speaker 1 And if she does invite him, she needs to consider the possibility the best way to avoid an unexpected event at her wedding is to like, I don't know, I don't know if you need to like blast, you know, tell everyone, but like, I don't know, certain people might need to know.

Speaker 1 I would definitely inform the person doing the ceremony because in those moments, that person's in charge.

Speaker 1 Let's assume in the middle of the ceremony, grandpa stands up and like goes on his spiel, right?

Speaker 1 Like mother-in-law slash like presider of the wedding could like literally point to someone and like everyone stay, you know, literally, you know, that kind of whole thing that someone does when they're like speaking in front of a room.

Speaker 1 it would be important for that person to have a heads up about like any situation that could handle the wedding planner needs to know right if there's a wedding planner certain people need to be like on the lookout now that is at at a cost to certain people who would otherwise want to enjoy the wedding you know like

Speaker 4 father of the bride i think that probably it would end up being me that would you know sort of be one of these people because my husband is a bridesmaid um for his sister so he's, he'll be preoccupied.

Speaker 4 Everyone in the immediate family would be preoccupied.

Speaker 1 So, are you, how capable are you at handling grandpa?

Speaker 4 Oh, I can handle grandpa. I am not super confrontational, but I think in that moment, I would do my best to

Speaker 1 get him out of. And if you're asked to do that, it sounds like you're willing to do that at the risk of like not being able to like electric slide, you know, or eat all the hors d'oeuvres.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I would say I'll do the best I can, you know, know, like, yeah, I think it's fine with me.

Speaker 4 Like, I'm not super close with them. So I don't, I can look at it a little bit from like an outsider perspective of.

Speaker 1 I think you're better off, you and the family, basically giving the bride permission to uninvite grandpa from the perspective of a bride and groom, you know, like, yeah, you, they're, you're thinking about photos and pictures and things like that.

Speaker 1 But like, I think there's a difference between saying, I don't think grandpa should come and grandpa's crazy and her dad being like, hey, listen, let's just talk this through.

Speaker 1 Like, your wedding's going to be amazing regardless. You know, like, let's just focus on that.
A lot of positive affirmation of the bride, right?

Speaker 1 But, like, if you're, if grandpa doesn't there, you know, grandpa's honestly, let's, he's a little sick right now. He's not well in the head.

Speaker 1 And let's just, I know that's hard to say, but like, the same way, like, grandma can't make it because of her health reasons, grandpa can either. And that's sad, but it's okay.

Speaker 1 And it's not something you're choosing to do easily or like that you don't you clearly we all want him to come but for the sake of your wedding first and foremost and like just peace of mind i would hate for you to have to enjoy it and i think it's you just kind of have to give her permission to uninvite him because it almost feels like yeah everyone's saying i don't want him to come i don't want him to come and she has to be the person to like save the day and it's her wedding and you know like empathize with the bride on what i would want him there too You know, she needs to be given permission to not feel guilty for uninviting her grandpa.

Speaker 1 And so I would maybe focus more on that because I think we all agree that's the safest way. And like, also, grandpa in the pictures.
Hey, yeah, it's grandpa in the picture.

Speaker 1 You know, remember that time where you know, like him in the picture, if he's in the picture, it will be a memory of having to deal with grandpa. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 I also have not seen the photos of me and my

Speaker 1 Natalie's grandparents from our wedding. I've seen a lot of photos from my wedding.
I have not seen those. They do exist, but I haven't seen them.

Speaker 1 Maybe Natalie has. I don't know.
They're not. They're not at the top of your list.
They're not at the top of the list. So, yeah, I guess that's my takeaway.

Speaker 1 If you do invite him, basically add that into the program. Grandpa loses his shit.

Speaker 1 It's part of the wedding plan, honestly. And if it doesn't happen, great.
But if it does, then it won't ruin the wedding because it's been expected.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's essentially what I'm thinking too. Just like, if, if it's going to happen, we can at least plan for it and have some sort of idea of what to do.

Speaker 1 But I really think the bride needs to be given permission to not feel guilty about uninviting him. Almost like, it's like, hey, you're not uninviting him.
I'm uninviting him. You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 But I think she needs to like, whether it's the pictures kind of reminding her that like there's going to be hundreds of pictures, that might not be, that won't be the one that you're focused on.

Speaker 1 Two, if that, if, if he gets into a picture, because there's no guarantee you invite him and he even makes it to the pictures, that if he makes it to the pictures, it's going to be a reminder of where grandpa was at at this time.

Speaker 1 Maybe Grandpa is better remembered when he wasn't believing in blood-sucking aliens.

Speaker 4 I totally agree.

Speaker 1 Um, anyway, sorry you're dealing with this, it's uh, it's uh, it sucks, but yeah, I um, I think we try to give the bride a clean conscience for not having grandpa at the wedding.

Speaker 1 And if that's not possible, then it's her wedding. She can invite him.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that sounds good. That's what we'll do.

Speaker 1 All right. Thanks for the call.
All right. Thanks.
Take care. Bye.
Bye-bye.

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Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 5 Good. My name's Rachel.
I'm 26, and I'm wondering how I get my boyfriend to care about my feelings.

Speaker 1 What do you mean your boyfriend doesn't care about your feelings?

Speaker 5 Yeah. So for context, we dated in high school for six years and then we broke up for about six years.
I joined the military and we reconnected over the summer when I was home on vacation.

Speaker 5 So we are long distance. But with his job, he can come spend like winter months with me.
So he was was here for three months over the winter.

Speaker 5 And during that time, we kind of figured out that we have like vastly different sex drives, whereas he wants to, you know, have sex every day. And I'd be fine with like two to three times a week.

Speaker 5 But around the time that we got together, I increased my dose of my antidepressant. And with that, I've noticed that I like definitely, like, I don't even think about sex.
It's not even on my radar.

Speaker 5 And I know that that's, you know, a problem

Speaker 5 for sure. So while he was here, we kind of realized that we, you know, this is going to be a problem in our relationship that we need to address.

Speaker 5 So I told him, you know, this is something that I'm going to work on with my doctor, but it doesn't change overnight.

Speaker 5 And I just kind of noticed that during this time, he has been like kind of withdrawing from me, like being different, like not treating me as he used to.

Speaker 5 And so it was kind of like a point of tension the entire time he was here for the three months. He left in January, the night before he left, we went out on a date.

Speaker 5 And I asked him, I was like, oh, can you lean in and be sweet and soft towards me, you know, until you leave tomorrow and he was like are we really going to have this conversation again what was the conversation that you were trying to have that he felt like he had multiple times yeah it had just been a like a topic of conversation you know the entire time that he was here with you know me going to my doctors and trying to find like a different medication that'll work and every time that you know, we would have like a discussion of everything, it always came back to, well, you, he would say to me, you want an emotional connection.

Speaker 5 I want a sexual connection. I don't feel like I'm getting what I need.
And so in turn, like, you know, understandably, like, you're not getting what you need from me.

Speaker 5 And so it had kind of been like, you know, we talked about it a lot.

Speaker 5 And it was definitely something that we both knew needed to be worked on. But, you know, my medication, I can only do so much so fast.

Speaker 5 And so he said that comment and I let it go because I wanted to have enjoy our last night together.

Speaker 5 And then a few hours later, we were on the way home and he's driving and I lean into him and I say, you know, like, oh, I just want you to be soft with me.

Speaker 5 Um, you know, like, I, I miss that side of you. And he kind of, you know, he got upset and he was like, you act like I beat you.
You act like I'm mean to you.

Speaker 5 You act like I'm doing something intentionally to hurt you. And that's not what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 Well, what is it? What does he think he's doing?

Speaker 5 And he, and that's, so when we get into like more, you know, more of it, he, up until very recently, wouldn't really acknowledge his fault in anything or like his, the fact that he had been treating me differently.

Speaker 5 He hadn't been the partner that, that I had grown to know him to be. And he didn't really, he wouldn't really acknowledge that.
And kind of just made me feel like it was in my head.

Speaker 5 So we get home and we don't really say, like that conversation didn't go anywhere. I was kind of taken aback because that's not, he's not very confrontational.

Speaker 5 And so I was kind of, didn't really know what to say. So we got home and it's, you know, late.
So I shower, I get in bed and he just stays out on the couch, which is not normal.

Speaker 5 And I ask him, I FaceTime him after about an hour and I'm like, hey, are you going to come to bed? And he's like, well, what for? And I was like, what do you mean, what for?

Speaker 5 And he was silent, didn't say anything. So I get upset.
I hang up the phone and I just roll over. I go to bed.

Speaker 5 The next morning we wake up and he's in bed with me and we're just like scrolling on our phones. And I was like, is this really how we're going to spend our last day together?

Speaker 5 You know, mind you, I'm not going to see him probably until at least June, possibly August. So this is a long time that we're

Speaker 1 in?

Speaker 5 January. He left January 10th.

Speaker 1 You're not going to see him all

Speaker 1 until August.

Speaker 5 Yes, sir. Yes.
With his job, he's working. He's a commercial diver.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 So, yeah. So, he, and I live in the desert.
So, he's, you know, he couldn't even move his job out here. That's another point of conversation in our relationship, too.

Speaker 5 It's like, it's always going to be long distance. Even if I were to move to where he is, he's always out on remote jobs.

Speaker 1 Two questions before you keep going. Yeah.
How long have you guys been together and how old is he?

Speaker 5 So, we're both 26. And this time,

Speaker 5 we've only been together since May of last year. Okay.
So, it's been like eight months.

Speaker 1 And how did you get together while he was diving?

Speaker 5 So when we dated in high school, we dated for six years until I left when I was 19 to join the military. And I lived with him and his mom.
So his mom was like my mom.

Speaker 5 And so I had always stayed in touch with her. So I was visiting her when I was home over the summer.
And I had saw him for the first time since I left when we were 19.

Speaker 5 And it was like no time had passed. And a week later, he was here visiting.

Speaker 1 And yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Anyways, continue.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So he,

Speaker 5 we spent the whole day, his last day in silence. And oh, earlier in the morning when we woke up and I said, you know, is this how we're going to spend our last day?

Speaker 5 He says, how else would you rather spend it? And I explained, you know, I feel like we're, you know, at least on my end, like we don't feel like our normal selves.

Speaker 5 I feel like this is, I don't want to end our trip this way.

Speaker 5 And he said that he didn't really feel like there was anything that we needed to talk about.

Speaker 1 I'm assuming that he just was really hoping to have sex before he left, right? Like that's.

Speaker 5 Right. And I, and of course, and I had, that's, I had every intention of, you know, like sucking it up.
I wanted to like, yeah, I get it. Like, you know, I had every intention of doing that.

Speaker 5 But I, and another thing that we had talked about previous while he was here is like, he wasn't really creating an environment where that was something I wanted to be doing anyways.

Speaker 5 Like, you're kind of being cold, withdrawn, like medicine aside, you're not really like making me want to have sex with you anyway.

Speaker 1 You, uh, before we started recording, you, you had told Justin and I that your

Speaker 1 boyfriend knows you're calling in and is supportive of you doing this and that you made it seem like you both have listened to this program before.

Speaker 1 Is that accurate? Yeah. What do you think he thinks is going to be said on this call? And what do you think he thinks I'm going to say?

Speaker 5 So he said,

Speaker 5 it's so funny. He said that he, he doesn't really feel like we've listened.
I mean, I listen to you every week. And he doesn't feel like he's ever heard you give bad advice.

Speaker 5 So he's like, you know, maybe I'm having blind spots because I'm in it that he can kind of, you know, shed light on or, you know, maybe he says that he kind of feels like you just help people naturally get to where they're kind of already going.

Speaker 1 So he is open to being wrong.

Speaker 5 I think so. Yes.
I haven't felt that way in the past.

Speaker 5 I've told him, I'm like, I feel like you think you're perfect and that, like, it's all, you know, because he multiple times has said, like, you're letting your head get away from you.

Speaker 5 Like, this is just your anxiety. And it feels to me like he's using it as a cop-out.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So, but I mean, it seems like he's definitely, he's excited to hear what you have to say for sure.
Although he was unwilling to get on the call too.

Speaker 1 But you asked him. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Why was he so unwilling? He's like, is he like available? Like, he's not like underwater right now?

Speaker 5 No, he's not underwater. He is home.
We were actually FaceTiming before we got on the call. And I said, well, what if he asked me to call you? And he's like, oh, I know you're doing it.

Speaker 5 I just won't answer.

Speaker 1 That's a shame. He really should get on.
What's he so afraid of? Text him? No, you can't text him when you're on airplane mode. Can you? Nick says, what are you so afraid of?

Speaker 5 I will text him. No, and it's so funny that you say that because I told him, I was like, he's going to want to know why you're not getting on the call if you're so supportive.

Speaker 1 I mean listen yeah

Speaker 1 after you text him um I'm glad he's only 26 if you would have said oh he's 35

Speaker 1 I would have been like Jesus um so I'm cutting him a little slack because he's younger right

Speaker 1 I'm trying to put myself in I you know my very first relationship that's my real relationship you know like As a as a really young man, I mean, I was, I don't know, 20, I was in my early teens, in my early 20s, you know, but there were times, you know, like you said, he wants to have sex every day.

Speaker 1 And I'm, I'm comfortable with two to three days a week. And I understand that was maybe before you started taking your antidepressant medication and changing your mood swings.

Speaker 1 But like, I'm here to say two to three times a week for any relationship. It's like, job well done.
Like, that's, it's really great.

Speaker 5 That's what I thought, too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And listen, as a 26-year-old, healthy young man, you know, his desires of every day, no judgment, totally get it. He's not alone there either.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it seems like he's physically very attracted to you. So, yay for, for, for that.
But yeah, like every

Speaker 1 day.

Speaker 1 Granted, yours is a, you know, I'm sure he might say, well, I don't get to see her that much. And we get to, you know, three months out of the year and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 But like, you know, on

Speaker 1 some levels, I understand his plight. But like, this is the relationship you both chose to be in.
It has these restrictions.

Speaker 1 Compromises do need to be made, sure, on some level. But, like, hey, you need to give it up four, five, six, seven days a week, you know, to make up for lost.
That's just not a realistic solution

Speaker 1 to like an unavoidable problem. And that unavoidable problem is that you guys get to see each other three to four months out of the year and in pockets, not even like spread out, it sounds like.

Speaker 1 So that sucks. And like having sex three times in one day and 10 times in a week, it'sn't going to help you in May when you're not in the, you know what I'm saying? Right.
So like, right.

Speaker 1 I guess all I'm saying is I can understand.

Speaker 1 I remember in my first relationship where I felt like there was a disconnect between us in terms of the expectation of how physical we were. Right.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I think she had less of a drive than I had or whatever, you know, where I have a problem with your boyfriend's response is him acknowledging like you want an emotional connection and I want a physical one.

Speaker 1 Now, in in any relationship, hopefully there are both. We know the

Speaker 1 limitations of your relationship in general. Your long distance

Speaker 1 creates a challenge for your physical relationship because,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 you can't actually physically touch and be intimate that way. And emotional connection, well, somewhat limited.

Speaker 1 You know, that's why, like, that's why a lot of people can start long distance relationships because early on, you know nothing about each other.

Speaker 1 Like when Nanny and I met, you know, she was living in Savannah, Georgia.

Speaker 1 It almost helps you build that emotional connection faster when everyone's excited about the physical aspect, especially if you're both attracted to each other.

Speaker 1 The distance creates that space, that forced space. And it's like, well, all I have left is to talk and communicate and text.

Speaker 1 And maybe you're sending pictures and maybe you're kind of making things steamy that way or whatever.

Speaker 1 But like that, that allows people to really get to know each other because they're forced to talk because that's all they have.

Speaker 1 And so you are able to, in a lot of ways, advance an emotional connection long distance, even when you don't have a physical one.

Speaker 1 To that end, I'm sure he feels like we already like have the emotional connection down because that's the only thing we get to do when I'm not home with you.

Speaker 1 He probably wants to make up for the lost time, but for him to say that to you implies that he's not that interested in an emotional connection and that the desire for an emotional connection is just one-sided.

Speaker 1 And he needs to understand, and this is where I cut him some slack, that he does, he quite frankly, like as someone who grew up with a lot of sisters and someone who grew up with a great relationship with their mom, my entire adult life, even from when I was 18 and earlier, I always felt like I was a man who paid attention to the considerations of women, who who was a gentleman, who,

Speaker 1 you know, understood women's plights, you know, but he has a lot to to learn, you know, and I had a lot to learn, you know, even though I felt like I probably knew more than my peers, you know, or men my age.

Speaker 1 I don't know how Evie's comparing himself, but he just needs to, he needs to understand like that statement alone suggests he has a lot to learn. Right.

Speaker 5 No, and I completely agree with everything, everything that you said. I feel like for me, like it's, it's beyond the sex of it, because I feel like I can get that, you know, taken care of.

Speaker 5 Like, obviously, we're still going to have different drives. And that's, you know, like I, I want to have sex more than I'm wanting to have sex right now.

Speaker 5 So that's something that I know that we can find a solution to. It's more so for me now, like how he's handled the situation.
He's turned you off.

Speaker 1 He's like giving you the ick.

Speaker 5 Exactly. And he's said things to me since then, because we've kind of talked in circles about it since he left that I'm just like kind of stunned.

Speaker 5 It doesn't really feel like the person that I thought I was in a relationship with.

Speaker 1 You thought, you know, you felt that way or he felt that way.

Speaker 5 I felt, I feel currently and at the time that I don't feel like I'm with the the person that he portrayed to me that he was in the beginning.

Speaker 5 Where we at one point were on FaceTime, um, talking about you know the whole situation. And I told him, I was like, I just feel like you don't care.

Speaker 5 And it was a bit of a heightened, you know, conversation. And he was like, I don't care.
Like, I don't care to talk about this. I don't care, you know, to continue having this conversation.

Speaker 5 And I said, well, then what's the point? Like, why am I, I might as well say that?

Speaker 1 Why is he so you're describing someone who's getting triggered and gets upset and elevates their emotions when this this topic comes up? And why do you think that is?

Speaker 1 Like, I mean, I get he's disappointed about not having sex, but like, why is he taking it personally? Does he believe? So, does he, do you think he believes you?

Speaker 5 And that's the hard thing. He, he has said that he has a hard time being empathetic and he's never had mental health struggles.

Speaker 5 So, he doesn't know what it's like to, you know, for the medication to affect you in these ways. And

Speaker 5 he has a hard time, you know, empathizing with.

Speaker 1 Has he been drunk before? Does your boyfriend drink whiskey?

Speaker 6 yes

Speaker 5 he does has he ever experienced whiskey dick no and he and that's another thing i tried to create in a an environment like okay well what about when we're older and maybe you have a hard time you know getting it up or what if i'm postpartum and i can't have sex for a while like is this how you're going to treat me in those situations yeah i just what did he say he you know was very flippant like that i'm not gonna not be able to you know just arrogant about that and then said that he would understand because it's postpartum and i'm like so if you can understand that why can't you understand this or at least try to give me grace and time to, you know,

Speaker 1 he's your boyfriend's actions and the thing he's saying in the way you're describing suggests that he doesn't believe that it's the medication that's causing your lack of sex drive, you know, whether your boyfriend's experienced whiskey dick or not, but like it's, it doesn't take a rocket science scientist.

Speaker 1 And I don't think any adult human who has the ability to empathize in general would have a hard time understanding that medication can affect has that medication has side effects that's that's what we're talking about we're talking about a side effects of a medication you're taking now I hope he recognizes that side effects are a thing of medication so like that's just like a common sense thing that he needs to get on board with I would think but I'm guessing he he understands that premise so the second question is is like does he think you need to be on medication to deal with your depression that seems a little more least believable because people do have a hard time empathizing with depression if they don't have to deal with depression because everyone deals with being sad and people who don't deal with depression i'm guessing equate sadness to depression and then but who have never felt depressed and then they're like well if i'm sad i just do this and that and i get myself over it and i kind of move on and i just you know work through it right and he is sounds like my guess my guess is he's having a hard time empathizing with your depression you know right and i i definitely could agree with that and i feel like he feels rejected too, which obviously I totally understand.

Speaker 5 But I feel like I've been so communicative and like it has nothing to do with my feelings for you and my attraction to you. Like I have tried being affectionate in other ways.

Speaker 5 And, you know, just in the meantime, it have been very verbal. Like, hey, this is something that I do feel is short term.
And it's more so for me now.

Speaker 5 Like he, I ended up sending him a screenshot of, I had this album on my phone of like cute things that he had said to me because I was, you know, I like, I had so many pinch-me moments in the beginning of our relationship.

Speaker 5 Like, how is this real life? And he sent me this one text about how, you know, I haven't had the easiest life.

Speaker 5 Obviously, I was living with people that weren't my parents when I was 14 years old, you know. So he said, You know, I don't want you to ever have to be alone in anything,

Speaker 5 or I want to be the person that you can come to and be vulnerable with, and we can figure it out together. Like, you'll never be alone again.

Speaker 5 And I sent him that screenshot, and I was like, This is what I mean.

Speaker 1 Like, what happened to this?

Speaker 5 This doesn't feel like the same person. And he literally said to me, It was easy to say those things when it was okay to touch you.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 I am surprised. He, uh, he's heard this podcast.
And, and, uh,

Speaker 5 truly, some of the things he said to me, I've just been like, I mean, I'm just blown away. Like, I, you know, I, yeah, and he just keeps

Speaker 1 my mental health. You know, physical touch is clearly his love language.
Um, right. Good for him.
And he has a desire. He hasn't, you know, listen.
Clearly, his needs aren't being met.

Speaker 1 But I hope holding hands and cuddling is

Speaker 1 at least does something for him. If physical touch, physical touch isn't just blowjobs.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I mean, as nice as they may be.

Speaker 1 But like my opinion, and this is just my opinion as a man

Speaker 1 who's only dated women, like, yes, everyone wants to have sex, right? Everyone wants to feel desired by their partner.

Speaker 1 And it's no one's job to put out in a relationship, but like, listen, if a relationship that both people have an expectation of physical intimacy, if that's not being met, like, yeah, there's a disconnect and things need to be addressed and handled.

Speaker 1 But because we're talking about the act of sex and we're talking, you know, and with that comes the act of consent and things like that, both parties need to consent.

Speaker 1 It's like, it gets a little weird when you start demanding your partner, like, perform if they don't feel up for it physically. Right.
That's just my opinion. I hope, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I feel like it's, I think it's an opinion shared by many. An emotional connection is like, is necessary for any real relationship.
You can fuck anyone, you know, hookup culture is proving that.

Speaker 1 Like, people are out there just

Speaker 1 having sex. It's like easy to have sex with a stranger.
It is impossible to emotionally connect with one, you know?

Speaker 1 And anyone in a, in a relationship where two people claim they want to build on something and Like you you truly need an emotional connection.

Speaker 1 And every man out there needs to understand that is probably more important to their women partners than it is to them. But it doesn't make it any less important for the relationship.

Speaker 1 And to your point, whether it's depression in the short term, whether it's postpartum, whether it's just like you both getting old and your body's changing and shit happening and life happening.

Speaker 1 And I promise, you know, you're, you know, he will rule the day.

Speaker 1 15, you know, if God forbid you guys work through this problem and you're still together 20 years later and maybe you're just like, you're wanting to get some action and he's just like, I don't know, I'm a little tired.

Speaker 1 My deck's a little lazy and I'm not up for it. He'll remember this conversation.
Women, I feel like, maintain their sex drive much longer and for here, you know, than men.

Speaker 1 But like, not that, you know, not, you know, it just, it'll be different. It won't be every day.
He will not. He just.
He's like, I'm just tired.

Speaker 1 Right. You know?

Speaker 1 But like, it's just my big problem, but all that jokes aside, it's just like,

Speaker 1 if your boyfriend truly believes that it is fair to withhold

Speaker 1 emotional intimacy and an emotional connection until he gets a physical one, then your relationship's doomed. Right.

Speaker 1 And he is incapable of being in a serious relationship, especially a long-distance one.

Speaker 1 And for him to essentially hijack an emotional connection and hold that hostage. because he's not getting what he needs, you know,

Speaker 1 I just forget about who's right or who's wrong. There's no way this relationship's going to flourish.
And like, and men, I think. You're just talking in circles.
Yeah, you're just talking in circles.

Speaker 1 And like,

Speaker 1 you know, listen, it's a, again, part of it is his disconnect of like, there's something, even if he says he believes you, his actions say otherwise, because it shouldn't be like, I get it.

Speaker 1 He must think you're hot and beautiful. And, you know, he's doing his diving thing.
And boy, like, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 And maybe it sounds, he kind of, I'm guessing his career, his profession is very like,

Speaker 1 he's working with a lot of rigged, rough men, I'm guessing. Yes.

Speaker 1 And I'm guessing they're all coming back with their stories about having all this sex with their wives or girlfriends or women or prostitutes. Who got, who knows?

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 1 And he comes back to me like,

Speaker 1 I had sex twice

Speaker 1 in three months and my girlfriend like hates having sex with me. So I can get where he's coming from.
I can, but it definitely doesn't make him right.

Speaker 1 He can have a reason to feel upset, but it doesn't make him right in the context of this relationship.

Speaker 1 You know, and maybe he's not caring about what his friends are thinking or saying, but I'd be there, there's a lot going into why he's acting the way he is.

Speaker 5 Exactly. I can totally understand like why he would be feeling that way for me.

Speaker 5 And kind of like you said, I told him, well, if that's, if sex is like the most important thing to you and that is what you're after, you can get that anywhere.

Speaker 5 Like you you don't need to be entertaining a long-term relationship where there's going to be the ebbs and the flows to it.

Speaker 5 You can just, you know, you can get that anywhere. And, you know, he says that he's after a long-term relationship and he wants to have a family.
He wants to have, you know, a wife and kids.

Speaker 5 I just don't feel like maybe not at 26.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, to be clear, his current job, and I don't know how long he plans on doing this, and him, quite honestly, being 26, isn't conducive to develop and grow a long distance relationship.

Speaker 1 On the flip side, I could argue that maybe he would disagree. You know, I would love to have him here.
You could tell me.

Speaker 1 But I also wouldn't shock me if a lot of the guys he works with are in committed relationships because the lifestyle in general is challenging and it makes it difficult to date around,

Speaker 1 things like that. I mean, his job probably makes it hard for him to be a fuckboy,

Speaker 1 even if he wanted to.

Speaker 1 And so he probably enjoys the companionship that you offer when he's out there diving. It's just that he is

Speaker 1 expecting, I don't think there's an, I don't know if there's another word for it,

Speaker 1 to get late

Speaker 1 when he's home. But I would argue, or guess at least,

Speaker 1 that his desire to be in a relationship is a little selfish. Because,

Speaker 1 one, I mean, we already know

Speaker 1 he's like, well, if you're not going to give me this, I'm not going to give you that. He's negotiating with you, right?

Speaker 1 That is not the actions of someone who is just like fully committed to being in this relationship and just like, I love you. I choose you.
I hope you choose me.

Speaker 1 And let's promise that we'll always figure it out. We'll always, you know, when we feel disconnected, we'll try to connect.
Obviously, you two are disconnected. You're trying,

Speaker 1 you're, at least what you're telling me, your version of the story is that you're trying to find ways to connect with him. And your version of the story is he is just like,

Speaker 1 no,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm.

Speaker 5 And I will say to you, like, because, you know, he is obviously very supportive of me being here.

Speaker 5 Like, I went over what I was going to talk about and he, everything that I'm saying to you, he completely agreed with.

Speaker 5 He was like, yep, like that's up until recently, though, he didn't, he wouldn't really acknowledge that he was treating me different. He just said that, you know, he wasn't getting what he needed.

Speaker 5 So it was harder for him to connect with me. He, but then on Thursday, I, I.

Speaker 5 last week, I told him that, you know, I'm kind of feel like I'm at the end of my rope. Like I feel like I'm giving everything that I can and I'm not really getting anything back.

Speaker 5 And we're just talking in circles. We're not getting anywhere.
And that's when he kind of, he says it was a coincidence. To me, it feels like he was like, oh, shit.
Okay.

Speaker 5 Let me, you know, but then he was like, all right, let me, you know, I have been treating you differently out of spite because I was feeling rejected. Let me be different.

Speaker 5 Let me, you know, show up for you. And so for the past five or six days, he's been, you know, like more attentive.

Speaker 5 I feel like for me, I'm, I'm now scared though, because it's like, okay, who, who really are you? Is this, is how you have been the past, you know, two months who who you are?

Speaker 5 And that's how you handle conflict. And that's how you will continue to handle conflict.
Is this just you putting on a show because you want the companionship while you're out there?

Speaker 5 You want to have someone to text and to feel like you have somebody to come home to. But so I, he feels like now I'm, I have walls up, which I do.
I'm scared now that I don't know.

Speaker 5 which part of him I'm going to get if I'm having, you know, if we're going through a hard time.

Speaker 1 Well, that's interesting that you say that because like I, I, I, you know, I think power dynamics shift greatly in relationships all the time, you know, and I think subtle ones, right?

Speaker 1 Sometimes I think if people are honest with themselves, even in healthy relationships, usually, hopefully the healthiest of the healthiest of relationships, you both feel like you're on equal footing.

Speaker 1 No one's abandonment issues are being triggered, you know, and you wake up feeling like you're choosing your partner as much as they're choosing you. And there's not a lot of thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 But even generally healthy relationships, don't operate that way. You know, there are moments where, you know, my abandonment issues might be triggered for some reason.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 And maybe I'm feeling just generally a little insecure. And that general insecurity might like reveal itself as, you know, a certain way around Natalie, you know, or I might just like,

Speaker 1 you know, we're pretty good at communicating at this point where I might just need a little more affection from her. I don't, I don't know, you know, and certainly vice versa, right?

Speaker 1 And so there's a power dynamic shift often in relationships.

Speaker 1 And whoever is feeling more insecure, or is being triggered by whatever abandonment issue they have, that other person, whether they know it or not, has more power, power, right?

Speaker 1 Your boyfriend wasn't feeling, for whatever reason, your boyfriend, it's the way you're describing it towards the end of his stint at home, wasn't feeling insecure. He was just mad.
He was angry.

Speaker 1 He was frustrated. He didn't know why his girlfriend didn't want to have sex with him.
And he dealt with his feelings through anger, you know?

Speaker 1 And I'm guessing that some of the things he said, like, well, you know, I knew that before I could touch you and blah, blah, blah. That all sounds like he's angry, right?

Speaker 1 You know, but now the way you're describing it, now he's gone, right? Now having the sex with you is less, I mean, he can't even have sex with you. He's not there.

Speaker 1 So immediately less of a priority for him, right? Even subconsciously. Right.
You know, I'm sure he still wants to have sex with you whenever he comes back, but like now it's off the table.

Speaker 1 It's a concern he really doesn't have to bother with until August. Right.

Speaker 1 And now you're still upset about how he treated you. at the tail end of that relationship.
And you're questioning things. You're like, I don't know, this is crazy.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 And now he's hearing you question things. And now that his like desire or need to have sex with you is off the table, it's less of a priority.
That anger is going away.

Speaker 1 And it's being replaced with a little more clarity about him being a dick.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 And now you're questioning things. And now he's just like, holy shit.
I don't know. Let's think.
Like, again,

Speaker 1 I don't think he's appreciated what you've brought to him in this relationship while you're not together.

Speaker 1 And I'm willing to guess, and I know very little about this relationship, but I'm willing to guess. He doesn't appreciate it, but you do.

Speaker 1 You offer that companionship, that person to reach out to every day, to talk through things.

Speaker 1 I bet where he works, it can be pretty, does he just generally work with a bunch of like rough men constantly 24-7? Yeah. Is he like off into the seas on a rig or whatever?

Speaker 5 doing crazy shit. And so he like often doesn't have phone service and he's just with like five or six dudes.

Speaker 1 Having a girlfriend on the outside, I bet is awesome for, you know, for people. It's like, it gives you something.
Well, and I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 5 It definitely gives me more because that's something else that I've brought to him is that I was like, I feel like the only thing you value in this relationship is sex.

Speaker 5 And even with him being gone, yes, obviously it's off the table, but he still expects like a certain like, you know, he wants the pictures. He wants the, and I get it.

Speaker 5 Like he's craving that, that part of the relationship, and which I was definitely open to and more receptive to, you know, before he came out here and when we were in a better place.

Speaker 5 And now it's obviously just not that kind of red, right?

Speaker 5 And so, he, you know, I told him, I was like, I feel like the only thing that you kind of want out of this relationship, appreciate out of the relationship is sex.

Speaker 5 And I feel like I bring so much more. And he's been like, well, like what?

Speaker 5 And, you know, I obviously

Speaker 1 have my point of view. You're saying this now, or he said that then?

Speaker 5 Within, since he's been gone within the last few weeks.

Speaker 1 It's crazy behavior.

Speaker 5 Thank you. And some of the things he says, I told him, just like how you just said too, you know, I'm choosing to be with you just as much as you're choosing to be with me.

Speaker 5 And it doesn't really feel like you appreciate that because of the things that you're saying and how cold you're being.

Speaker 5 It feels like you think that you can do anything, and I'll still be here, and that's not the case.

Speaker 1 That's a crazy thing to say to someone, even out of anger. But if he really believes that, why is he dating you?

Speaker 5 Exactly. And I told him, I was like, You, you know, you're attractive, like you, you know, you can get sex anywhere.

Speaker 5 Like, it doesn't have to be where there's like all like doesn't have to be this difficult for you if that's all that you're after.

Speaker 5 But then he goes back saying he wants that emotional connection to that relationship.

Speaker 1 I don't doubt.

Speaker 1 I believe that, but why he

Speaker 1 I very much believe that I think he doesn't appreciate how much. Yeah, he doesn't appreciate it.
And I don't think he really believes it.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, like, if nothing else, his willingness to say some of these things to you at best are just cruel because he's upset and he's trying to hurt your feelings. And that's just mean.

Speaker 1 Or worse, he actually believes it. And this is like, Denny sounds like a guy who just

Speaker 1 objectifies women.

Speaker 5 So it's like, neither are good. And that's what I told him.
I was like, you know,

Speaker 1 this is just, you know, neither are good.

Speaker 1 To be clear, for sure.

Speaker 5 Sorry. Is that, you know, this is just you acting out of character because you're upset.
And even that's not good. Or this is like who you actually are.

Speaker 5 And then, of course, like, that's not the person that I want to be with. And so now I'm just, we're kind of at a, as he would say, a stalemate.

Speaker 5 Like, I don't, we're just kind of like, you know, now he's trying and I'm scared.

Speaker 1 And when you say he's trying,

Speaker 1 has he apologized for some of these mean things he said? I mean, you reviewed them with him. You, you like literally before this call, you're like, hey, I'm going to talk about X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 1 Just to review, I'm just going to bring up some of the things he said to me. And he's like, yeah, that all seems accurate.
He's not like alarmed, but he's like, wow, I really was a dick.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, in the heat of the moment, we all can be dicks. You know, sometimes we say things to the people we love the most and we don't even realize how cruel it comes across.

Speaker 1 And sometimes we have to cool down, time has to pass, and then we have to say, I'm sorry, I was an asshole. That's normal.
But like.

Speaker 5 Exactly. And I've definitely had those moments too in these conversations where I have, you know, gotten heated and I say something.

Speaker 5 And then I go back and I'm like, hey, like, I'm sorry that I got to that point. That was disrespectful.
That's not my intention.

Speaker 5 But even in like talking about it earlier today, when, when, you know, we've been in like an okay place and he's putting in effort now.

Speaker 5 he was like, yeah, that all sounds, you know, that's, that's what happened. And I said, like, I'm worried, baby, this has been making you kind of look not the best.

Speaker 5 And he was like, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's, I said those things. Like, he never has once been like, well, I'm glad he said that.

Speaker 1 I'm glad he's owned up to it, but I'm just more like, it doesn't sound great. Yeah.

Speaker 5 And it's leaving me not knowing like what to do or if, because a little more context, I have a four-year-old son, and I spent a long time trying to make that relationship work with his dad when I just wasn't, it wasn't a relationship I should have been in.

Speaker 5 And so I feel like I'm a little bit now now that I've seen like, okay, this isn't really, you know, some signs of someone that I want to be with.

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm more ready to just be like, all right, you know, yeah, I mean, he's, you're, your, your, your, your boyfriend is not giving you anything to work with. Almost nothing.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 As a young man, as a 26-year-old man, I would just say to him, if he was, it's just like, I don't want him to be nice to you just to get laid.

Speaker 1 But hell, man, if all he was was just like held your hand and showed a little affection and maybe got you flowers or just like acted, or even if he pretended, and I don't want him to have to pretend, like, he probably would have got a little action.

Speaker 1 But like, why, you know, like, again, he needs to understand that like we all, as human beings We always need to feel taken care of emotionally. We need to feel loved.

Speaker 1 We need to feel like our partner isn't going to abandon us. We need to feel like we can be our most vulnerable selves with our partners.

Speaker 1 You know, that's the joy of being in a real relationship that like when you come home, your most comfortable, your sanctuary, you don't have to put on an act. You can be yourself.

Speaker 1 Now, that doesn't mean be an asshole. That doesn't mean be gross and disgusting and shit with the toilet open.
But like, you know what I'm saying? Like you can generally be yourself.

Speaker 1 You can show some of your cracks and weaknesses and insecurities with your partner and not worry about and know that they love you, you know? Right. And that's like necessary.

Speaker 5 And that's where I feel like it's, it's necessary. That's like, you can, what do you have if you don't have that? And I told him with this, like, you know, and I don't feel like, yes, okay.

Speaker 5 The, the initial thing that started that all of this is stemming from is that I'm taking medication that is, you know, causing me to have, you know, sexual dysfunction. Yes, that is the problem.

Speaker 5 But now like there's so much outside of it where I told him, I don't, I feel like if I don't show up as my best or in the way that you want me to, you expect me to, it's not enough for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 So then I feel like I have to put on like this.

Speaker 5 I can't just be. And that's not, it's just, it's so crazy to me how far different we are now from where we were.

Speaker 1 And what like, it's just, I mean, you need to let go of the honeymoon phase that you were in and, and how magical it was when you guys got back together because, you know, everyone is their best self and everyone, like he,

Speaker 1 you guys were having sex more, you know, and you were more intimate and you weren't going with what you're going through now, but things have changed. As in every relationship, things change, right?

Speaker 1 And right now, your boyfriend is demonstrating behaviors that tell you that when things change that don't go his way, he will not compromise or be there for you.

Speaker 1 He will just be angry and upset and expect you to fix the problem and get back to where things were so he can continue to be happy again. That is the actions that he's demonstrating, which is hard.

Speaker 5 You said that perfectly. Yes.

Speaker 1 So he's not giving you much to work with. Now, like, again, like, I would want for him to now be like, I really shouldn't have talked to you that way.
I'm really sorry. I'm just very frustrated.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, I just, sometimes I get insecure about like, you know, you're attracted to me. Obviously, I'm not going to see you for the next eight months.
I didn't handle myself the best way.

Speaker 1 I'm, you know, like, you should be getting that right now.

Speaker 1 If you're not getting that, that's concerning. That's like, and you can't teach, you know, I'm cutting him from slack because he's only 26, but he's not 18 and he should know better.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to cut him a little bit more slack because, you know, he's certainly like his surroundings are not, I'm guessing, I'm guessing a lot of his workplace conditions aren't promoting culture of like pro-women or just like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 It doesn't have to be pro-women, just more like, you know, just like not a, you know, locker room talk aside, like hanging out with your boys, but like, I don't, he's just maybe not getting the best role models when it comes to like a healthy relationship or a healthy relationship with women in general or just an empathetic man towards the plight of like things that women might go through.

Speaker 1 Fine, that's his choice he's making. And I don't care if you're on an island with a bunch of like rough men.
He has the internet.

Speaker 1 And like, no one has the excuse to like isolate themselves and become ignorant if they want to learn and educate themselves.

Speaker 1 So at best, your boyfriend is, is talking as if he's a bit ignorant about like how women are in relationships or what their needs are.

Speaker 1 And if you're expecting someone to just be a concubine and have sex with you when you're ready, you know, then that's not what you want.

Speaker 1 And then, and if that's what he wants, then God bless him, you know, like, you know, I'm sure he can find it, like you said.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So I'm just, I'm left with, I don't, like, I want to give him the, I don't feel like I've given it everything.

Speaker 5 Like, I feel like this is the first, you know, we've only been together about about like eight months. You know, I don't, this is our first kind of hurdle that I would like to see us get over.

Speaker 5 And, you know, this is like, you know, the hard times in a relationship is when you get to show how you can show up for your partner.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but he's not showing. Yeah, but I would just caution you right now.
Yes, you have to get through hard times. You know, people can get through devastating times.

Speaker 1 They can, you know, people have gotten through betrayals and things like that. But like.
Let's say if someone's betrayed someone, a trust of violation was happened in a relationship.

Speaker 1 People have gotten through that because there's contrition, there's regret, there's, you know, there's the realization that they fucked up, there's the desire to make changes.

Speaker 1 You know, a lot of people fall short of all those promises and changes and things like that, but at least there's that, you know, and that's a starting point of fixing the problem is an acknowledgement that there was a problem.

Speaker 1 And again, your boyfriend is this kind of acknowledging that you have a problem and that your problem is both of your problems, but he doesn't really see the problem with how he is handling this whole situation.

Speaker 1 And that's the biggest problem.

Speaker 5 Right. I, yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 1 And so, I guess I would just caution you, it's like, you don't get any medals or, you know, like, just because it's your first big fight doesn't mean you have like, I mean, you can break up or stay together as long as you want, right?

Speaker 1 But like, there's no, there's no playbook out there that says you get four fights for free. It's silly to ever break up before four fights because like everyone has at least a hundred fights, right?

Speaker 1 That's silly. What are those fights about? You know, what are you talking about? You'd have to figure out, is this a fight over a non-negotiable or is this a fight over like our pet peeves?

Speaker 1 I would argue that's a fight over a non-negotiable. You're not, you know, he might think, well, my non-negotiable is like, I want to have a partner who wants to have sex with me.
Fair enough.

Speaker 1 I guess on its face, that makes some sense.

Speaker 1 Your negotiable is like, I want a partner who shows up for me when I'm not my best self, when I'm struggling with mental health problems or like when I just, you know, when I'm, I want my partner to believe me when I tell him my body's going through something.

Speaker 1 And like as a man, he needs to understand if he wants to be in a relationship with a woman that his body is not the same as your body and that your body might experience a lot different types of emotions and feelings that his body may never feel.

Speaker 1 And the feelings that his body feels, like, hey, the feeling of wanting having sex every day, if nothing else, shows the difference in your two bodies.

Speaker 1 And he's, he, you know, to expect your two bodies to want the same thing every day is, is immature and a little ignorant, but he already knows, you know, like his body wants something different, right?

Speaker 1 And he's not going to get very far in any relationship if he can't show up and be empathetic to his partners without having to have to gone through what they've gone through to be empathetic.

Speaker 1 You know, he has to know at a minimum that like sometimes, you know, even maybe once a month, that like some shit might happen where he needs to like maybe be more empathetic.

Speaker 1 Maybe be less demanding, maybe show up for his partner, maybe have a little grace.

Speaker 1 Because again, the the things that you might be feeling in a five-day period over the course of one month might be something that he's never gone through. Cramping, back pains.

Speaker 1 I don't know, fucking bloating. Like, I don't know.
Like, I don't have to deal with that every time. And it doesn't sound fun.

Speaker 1 I don't have to bring out a heating pad like Nally does every month because like she's in excruciating pain because of cramps, you know, but I believe her. Right.

Speaker 1 And I can understand what it's like to have back pains. And I can just like ask myself, how should it, how can I best show up for my partner here?

Speaker 1 I enjoy being there for my partner. I'm an active service guy.
That's my love language. Doesn't sound like it's your boyfriend's.
But who knows?

Speaker 1 Maybe I got him wrong. But you got to figure out if you guys really are, you know, you have this love story of being high school sweethearts and dating for as long as you did.

Speaker 1 And you have this love story of reconnecting. And that is fun and that is nice.
And that will get a relationship a pretty long way.

Speaker 1 You know, there's a lot of people out there who are together because they like the story of how they met. And there's not much else there, you know?

Speaker 1 But as I've said in this amazing book called don't text your ex happy birthday uh just kidding uh it's pretty good uh i have it i haven't read it yet but i do have it

Speaker 1 well there's a okay well there's a part in that book there's a whole chapter there's a lot of other things that won't want to apply to you but there's a part of the book that says your your relationship won't care how you met it doesn't your relationship doesn't care and you're feeling that right now because your relationship is struggling and despite you caring how you met your relationship doesn't because it doesn't make how you met doesn't fix the problem you're feeling now, right?

Speaker 1 Because a relationship needs two people to show up every day, right? And your boyfriend is not showing up in ways that you need to show up.

Speaker 1 And I guess in his version, you're not showing up in a way he needs to get to show up, but like he needs to understand that his expectations are a little unfair and yours are a bare minimum.

Speaker 5 I feel really validated right now. Just, I, you know, because it's,

Speaker 5 yeah, you said that perfectly. I'm just, I'm taking it all in.
It's a lot. And I do feel like that is with how we met, right? And his mom, I call her mom.
You know, we stayed in touch six years.

Speaker 5 My son calls her Nana. So for me, that is something that I would definitely grieve if, you know, we were to go our separate ways is that would be right.
Like amazing.

Speaker 5 But that's definitely not what's holding our relationship together. That's not what we're going to fall back on every day.
And I can acknowledge that. It is something that I've kind of thought about.

Speaker 5 I would have to

Speaker 5 separate myself from that.

Speaker 1 Start every day with like, I'm so lucky that I have you in my life and I love you. And I was thinking about like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I love this and I love that.

Speaker 1 The amount of nudes you would send him would probably just be like ridiculous. And like, you didn't even have to be in the mood to send a nude.
Fuck, it's so easy.

Speaker 1 But like, I wouldn't want to send a nude to a guy being a dick to me. I wouldn't want to send a nude anymore.
That's what I told him.

Speaker 5 I was like, listen, if you were giving me it, yeah, if you were giving me like any kind of like environment where I was like, you know, anything, if you were giving me anything at all, like, it would be so much easier for me to lean into that side.

Speaker 5 But even like, I've been down dosing my medication and like within the next month or so, like, I should be, you know, like, that shouldn't be playing a role anymore, you know, with the sex, sexual dysfunction.

Speaker 5 And I still am not. Like, I'm just like, it's, I don't enjoy, you know, getting on the phone and having like, we're trying to find the quality time.

Speaker 5 Like, it just always feels so heavy because this is like consuming every part of our relationship when we're long distance right now. That shouldn't even be a huge part of it right now, you know?

Speaker 1 So it's stuck in his head. I don't know.
There's something going on where he just feels so validated to feel the way he does.

Speaker 1 I don't know where it's coming from, but that's the best excuse I can come up with.

Speaker 1 Because I would hope that he will eventually think these comments and the way he is acting is out of character for him. But you have way too many examples of things he said.

Speaker 1 And currently, like the fact that

Speaker 1 he's not like mortified that he said these things.

Speaker 1 He comes across by the things he said and how he's acting as someone who like objectifies women, very kind of misogynistic and and really thinks that your primary and really only role in this relationship is to like service him when he's horny and like you know that's how he's acting that's what he's saying i don't you know i definitely agree with that i mean if he was here i would hope he would be like i don't i don't believe that but like it was like give me something that shows that you don't believe that The only thing that shows that he doesn't believe that is like, again, I really believe that he, he doesn't appreciate what he gets from you emotionally and just you being there and just him having someone while he's out doing this crazy job that he's doing.

Speaker 1 But it's a disconnect for him. It's got to be, you know, he takes it for granted for sure.

Speaker 5 Right. And that's definitely something that I will bring up to him too.

Speaker 4 You know, he's eager.

Speaker 5 I tried getting him on the call, but he's eager to hear what you had to say. So I'm definitely going to let him know that.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I would wait for him to listen.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't think you're going to be, I don't think you're not that I, not that you can't.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't be able to re-articulate what I heard from someone about a very passionate issue that I give a lot of shits about in a way that would like, you're better off.

Speaker 1 You can give them the cliff notes. Again, you can do whatever you want, your relationship.
And honestly, I don't know when this episode is going to come out. It might be a couple of weeks.

Speaker 5 He wanted me to ask. He was like, well, how long am I going to have to wait?

Speaker 1 Maybe a month or less.

Speaker 1 I would use this to your advantage. I mean, like, listen, I shouldn't really make or break.
You know, if he were were here and I was like, dude, do you really, like, do you think this way?

Speaker 1 Do you feel this way? Like, are you sorry? And those are the questions I'd ask him. You need to stop acting like this is something you can solve his problem.

Speaker 1 As I see it, you're doing 100% of your half and you're trying to do some of his half. You showing up and getting advice.

Speaker 1 You know, you're trying to fix this problem because you want to be connected with your boyfriend. It's in some ways self-serving.

Speaker 1 You don't want to deal with this, but like you described a guy who is familiar with the, you know, there's a lot of guys who wouldn't come on here, but he's familiar with the show, seems to be a fan of the show, seems to respect my opinion, you know, like, and I always try to be pretty fair, especially when I get like, you know, couples on here.

Speaker 1 I don't want to make anyone feel, but he still chose not to show up. Yeah.
So what I'm saying is like, you got to get away from, this is not like a compromise.

Speaker 1 I think it's okay for you to feel like you're 100% right. Okay.

Speaker 1 And I think it's okay for you to be like, I'm, you know, because you're in this mindset of fix, you're in this fix fix-it mindset, you're in this caretaker mindset, and he is failing you, he's failing the relationship, and you're telling yourself that you can deal with this, and that maybe there's a problem, there's a disconnect, and maybe there's something you're doing, maybe there's something you're not seeing, and yada, yada, yada.

Speaker 1 And you know what I'm saying? Does that all resonate with you?

Speaker 5 It does.

Speaker 1 As opposed to you being like, like, this is fucked up. Like, I'm sorry.
Like, you, I, you know, you, you would, you would have the grounds to break up with immediately the moment he said, like, what?

Speaker 1 After you asked him, you know, I'm, I'm, there's more to me than just like putting out and having sex.

Speaker 1 And the moment he said, like, what, you could have broken up with him and, and everyone listening would have been like,

Speaker 1 took you long enough. Right.

Speaker 1 And I'm not saying you should break up with him, but I'm just saying you should know that you have the support of like mankind and this entire audience, that you're not crazy and that like, you shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone who thinks that way, let alone says it.

Speaker 1 And we don't even know if he just said it or if he thinks it. Right.
You know?

Speaker 5 That's very validating to hear. Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional It's just, I feel like it's been like made out to be in my head so much, you know? So it's really validating to hear that.

Speaker 5 Like, I feel like I've, like, I've told him, I feel like I've done everything I can. Like, I feel like I'm at the end of my rope.
Like, I don't know what else there is for me to do. And you're right.

Speaker 5 It's not really like it's my problem. It's for his to decide if he wants to show up and be different.

Speaker 5 And if he doesn't, and he even said last week when we were talking, when he was like, you're right, I've been doing this out of spite. He said, let's not talk about it.
Let me be different.

Speaker 5 And if I'm not, like, you have your answer.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 But now I'm having a hard time kind of being like vulnerable and letting him because it's like so much has, it's been so much that's happened.

Speaker 1 I mean, he sounds, he comes across as a guy who's aware of the power position he's in. And, and that could change quickly.
I mean, it wouldn't shock me if you ended the relationship.

Speaker 1 I, you know, it wouldn't blow my mind. He comes crawling back and begs for you to, you know, reconsider and he apologize and recommends couples therapy and says, I'll get in the therapy.

Speaker 1 You know, you know, I've seen it all. You know, and maybe he needs a wake-up call.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but that's the thing, Nick.

Speaker 5 I feel like he's so prideful that if I were like in his head, and I told him this, I said, I just really want you to understand that if I do choose to walk away, it's not me not being able to handle the distance.

Speaker 5 It's not me, my mental health. It's not that.
It's that you're not showing up. Like you're not giving me what I need.
And then that, you know, it's just, what do you say?

Speaker 5 I feel like he's so prideful that he wouldn't

Speaker 5 let himself.

Speaker 1 Maybe so. But if that's the case, that is a, that is a characteristic that he has that

Speaker 1 you're in a relationship with. But like,

Speaker 1 this is acting like another level.

Speaker 1 There's being stubborn and prideful in the moment when you're trying to win an argument or whatever, or maybe that carries over for an entire day or two. And then there's like,

Speaker 1 this is a man being stubborn about a topic that you guys have been dealing with for a long period of time now, and he's shown no signs of backing down.

Speaker 1 And his stubbornness has overcome any desire to empathize with you, to take care of you, to emotionally support you, to validate you. None of that.

Speaker 1 And that is, you have to acknowledge that is a characteristic of his. He is demonstrating his pridefulness more than he is demonstrating his ability to take care of you.

Speaker 1 And I think you need to let go of

Speaker 1 the romanticization of this relationship. You're only 26.
It sounds like as a young 26-year-old woman, you've been through a lot and you've had a lot of life. Same like Natalie.

Speaker 1 Like our upbringings were very different.

Speaker 1 But you still are young and and i wouldn't waste a lot of time on on men who do this you know and i understand the the romantic romantization of how you met and yada yada and you call his mom mom and and it sounds like maybe you didn't have your you know and that's and that's extra hard on you because it sounds like you had some conflict with your own family who's in the background is it him like who's who's whose family is it um these are my friends okay there and i'm close with my parents now They were both, they're just, they're drug addicts and they're sober now.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 1 That's positive. But I, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 So it's, we have relationships now, but it's not, you know, I've always struggled and he was there, you know, for, for all of that when we were in high school and everything kind of fell apart there.

Speaker 5 But I've always just felt like, you know, had a hard time feeling like I'm enough, you know, and it's something I've sorted through in therapy as well.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 5 it's definitely in the forefront now.

Speaker 1 If I were, I mean, honestly, what I really think is going on, and I don't, whether he realizes or not, that like, I think your boyfriend really thinks he's in control of this relationship.

Speaker 1 You know, he's certainly not insecure about losing you, that's for sure. And that's crazy considering like you've acknowledged that you might choose that.

Speaker 1 But whatever reason, he is not afraid to lose you. Not yet, not right now.
And I think it sounds like you have accepted the role of the submissive one in the relationship, I guess.

Speaker 1 Not like in a sexual way, but I just mean like, and he's like, Yeah, well, then you have my, you know, he's just unafraid of saying anything to you, clearly.

Speaker 1 And you're afraid to say anything to him, right? You're so upset, you're so afraid of upsetting him, right?

Speaker 1 You're so afraid of rattling his cage because it's already rattled and things are already disconnected. He's not afraid at all.

Speaker 1 And you, and this is another reason why I don't think you should send him the episode or tell him what I said. You need to change that dynamic.
You need to not give a fuck.

Speaker 1 If you want to stay in a relationship with this man, you need to change your attitude, being like, why the fuck am I letting this motherfucker treat me this way?

Speaker 1 this is bullshit i don't know what he's going through i'm gonna give him i'm gonna cut him some slack because what i should do is break up with his ass i'm not gonna break up with his ass but what i'm not gonna do is i'm gonna put up with any of this bullshit so like i'm just not gonna take his calls i'm not gonna be there for him i'm not gonna ask him about his day i'm gonna be cold as fuck and if he wants to wake up and start acting the way i deserve to be treated he can start but until then i'm just gonna slowly Let go.

Speaker 1 Okay. And if he doesn't stop me from letting go, I'm going to leave.
But him stopping you from letting go is not what he says. It's it's what he does, right? And that's part of the thing.

Speaker 5 And that's something he did bring up to me this morning, you know, because I've been very vocal. Like, listen, I see that you've been trying the past few days.

Speaker 5 Um, and it's, yeah, I feel like my walls are up. I feel like I'm having a harder time being vulnerable and letting you in.

Speaker 5 And he's like, Well, I need you to tell me if, like, are you going to just do what I've been doing?

Speaker 5 And now that I'm trying, are you just like he was like, Now, are we going to swap roles? Like, what's the point of even continuing?

Speaker 1 That's a fair question, but like, it's not about swapping roles. Like, this is like, do you think I'm only worth having sex?

Speaker 1 You need to understand if some of the things he said, he believes, and if he's sorry, does he think that you deserve to be treated that way?

Speaker 1 Like, I understand the disconnect between like you being depressed and not having a sex drive and the pressures of you not seeing him.

Speaker 1 And I can see that he handled that in a bad way without thinking he's a bad guy.

Speaker 1 I've been a young man before and like I didn't have an awareness that where I have today, but like he should be aware enough as a 26-year-old man to recognize that he was a dick

Speaker 1 and to apologize for that and to say, I'm really sorry. I could have handled it better.

Speaker 1 I just got a little frustrated, you know, like, and you're not getting that right now. So, right now, we need to figure out like what he really believes.
Right.

Speaker 1 And when he is considerate, don't push back. If your boyfriend is kind, if he reaches out, if he's nice to you, if he gives you that emotional love, you can receive it.
Just receive it.

Speaker 1 Don't reject it.

Speaker 1 You know, that doesn't mean he's out of the clear, you know, because all you know, it's like two days of him being nice. It's just a step in the right direction.

Speaker 1 But like, don't do for the tit for tat, but we need to find out what he really believes at first.

Speaker 5 Right. And that's what I told him.
I said, I definitely don't want you to feel like, like you said, tit for tat.

Speaker 5 It's like this, this is me being scared of like, I don't know if who you have been acting like is who you are or if, you know, that was a lapsing character.

Speaker 5 And obviously, I want to give you the opportunity to show up for me how you say that you're going to now.

Speaker 5 But I'm scared, you know, like I don't know what to believe or how long this possible nice act is going to last. So it's scary for me to be following.

Speaker 1 Well, I empathize with your fears, but I will say, if you want to be in this relationship, you have to be in this relationship. And if you break up with him today, your heart's going to be broken.

Speaker 1 And if you decide not to break up with him and he decides to start being more affectionate and more consideration, does some of the things that you want him to do and you receive it and you start believing in him that things get better.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. Nine months, things could go to the shitter.
You know, we can't predict the future.

Speaker 1 And that's no different than you break up with him, you date another guy in a week and you start dating him and you believe in him and then he starts, you know, love is risky.

Speaker 1 You got to take risks. So, but if you're going to be in this relationship, be your best self.
Don't do the tit for tat. He might break your heart.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 But like, you're just going to have to risk that. if you want to be in this relationship.
That being said, you still have to hold him accountable.

Speaker 1 But when he does and says some of this crazy shit that suggests that maybe he is not the person he led himself to believe. And you need to get a clear out.
Do you believe it's the cereal?

Speaker 1 If do you do if you get off the call, be like, you're going to have to wait for to listen to it. He told me to say that.

Speaker 1 But he also told me to ask you, like, do you like, what, what are, like, the only being good for sex.

Speaker 5 It was easy to say those things when it was okay to touch you.

Speaker 1 Yes, that. You know, do you really believe that? Like, and do you really think

Speaker 5 that he might actually believe those things?

Speaker 1 He hasn't apologized for it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if he says, of course, I don't believe it.

Speaker 1 If he says, if he says, of course, I don't believe that, all of your actions say that are backing up what you said and you still haven't apologized. So even if you apologize,

Speaker 1 nothing about what you're saying or doing. I literally reviewed this stuff with you before I got on the call.

Speaker 1 And you were like, I mean, hey, I appreciate your honesty, but like, do you believe this stuff? Because if you believe this stuff, you have your answer.

Speaker 1 But if he believes, like, listen, yeah, we're, I'm frustrated about our sex life. That's, that's, he's allowed to be frustrated.
That is totally okay for him to be frustrated about your sex life.

Speaker 1 And he can say that. And he could say, I'm frustrated about our sex life.
I know we're going through some things. I have, I clearly have not handled myself the best way.
I want to fix that.

Speaker 1 Obviously, I hope we can figure out our sex life, but like I want us to also, you know, work on our emotional connection. And do you think, I would ask him this.
Do you think our emotional connection?

Speaker 1 is only possible if our sex life is where you think it needs to be.

Speaker 5 That's good. I'm going to write that down.

Speaker 1 That's good.

Speaker 5 I will ask him that. That also, yeah, I will ask him.

Speaker 1 If he says yes, then you, you, I would say, then you can say, Nick thinks we have a big problem.

Speaker 1 Because it's just not, it's just not true. Right.
Like he has emotional needs. You have emotional needs.
He is literally in the middle of fucking nowhere.

Speaker 1 There's the only reason why he wants a girlfriend right now is because of his emotional needs. He can look up porn.
He can go into port or wherever the fuck. He clearly wants to have a girlfriend.

Speaker 1 He has emotional needs. So for him to deny you your emotional needs because of sex, like it's, but I would still ask him the question before I give him the answer to the test.

Speaker 1 And then I would point out his hypocrisy if he gives you the wrong answer.

Speaker 5 No, I appreciate that point of view because that's not something that I had, you know, when he's asked me, like, when we've talked about like what all I bring to the relationship and what he brings, that's not something that I've really considered.

Speaker 5 What does he think?

Speaker 1 By the way, what does he think he brings to the relationship? Nine months out of the year, he's not there. Yeah.

Speaker 5 It's his job, but he knows there's other jobs out there right and that's something that you know i feel like that question has definitely been more like put on to me what i bring um i will say that i know like he obviously has you know financial security of course he you know and when things were going well he showed up for me in so many ways like he you know would like make me breakfast every morning we you know like do dance classes together like we have

Speaker 5 I had so many pinch-me moments with the things that he would say to me about how like, is this like, I can't believe someone's finally showing up for me this way and you know it's it's felt like it was happening we were connecting so naturally i guess i haven't flat out asked him what he feels like he brings to the relationship in present day so i don't know if that's a question to ask him as well yeah i think some of the other questions are more important i do think that question will be received in a kind of a confrontational way so

Speaker 1 Yes. I honestly probably wouldn't even ask that question.
I mean, if you're in a fight and he throws it in your face, I would be quick to ask him that question. But other than that,

Speaker 5 it's not like productive.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how productive it is.

Speaker 5 So he has said to me that we've talked about being empathetic. He has said to me that he has a hard time.
Like, that's not his strong suit.

Speaker 5 And he has literally thought out said, if that's somebody, if you want somebody where that is like, they're coming into it and that's their strong suit, like, I'm not your person.

Speaker 5 Like, obviously, he's, you know, said that he'll work on it and he wants to be able to do more.

Speaker 1 I don't.

Speaker 1 Tell him I, you know, tell him I said this. It's, it's most men's, it's not most men's strengths.

Speaker 1 I was definitely never good at it. In fact, I would say it was a weakness of mine early in my life.
In fact, it was a criticism my father would give me often. I've gotten way better at it.

Speaker 1 And honestly, I've gotten better at it because it made my life better.

Speaker 1 You know what? It's very powerful. If you're able to empathize with other people, you can have, not that I'm saying you do it this way, you can have power and control over them.

Speaker 1 If you can put yourself in other people's shoes and relate to them, people feel seen, people feel heard, they feel connected to you. That's power.

Speaker 1 You know, he should want to develop the skill of being more empathetic. It will drastically improve his life in every aspect of his life.

Speaker 1 Empathetic to his boss, empathetic to his coworkers, like just someone who makes other people feel sane and heard.

Speaker 1 That's how, like, honestly, how con artists like get what they want because that's what they did is con people.

Speaker 1 But and I don't think he should be manipulative or con people, but like he is answering this question as if he's like some tough man who just like, if you want a guy who like picks flowers and empathizes with you and like, then find another man.

Speaker 1 It's like, fuck that. Like, that's honestly how he's answering that question.
Right. And like, it's not a, it's not a, it's not about femininity or masculinity.

Speaker 1 It is just, it is a human skill that for the people who learn how to develop it, like life's just easier. It's better.

Speaker 1 You understand conflict better. It gives you more peace of mind.
You just are able to like, yeah, work with people better.

Speaker 1 If you can anticipate what, you know, when I'm in conflict with anyone, whether it's work, whether it's emotional, my ability to say, well, if i if like let me put myself in their shoes like let me really put myself in their shoes not not try to win this fight not not you know but truly try to put myself in their shoes not and and again people have to under people really really have a hard time understanding like the reason why something happens versus the justification people are so afraid to empathize with people because they're afraid that will like justify their actions right and that's not it like the like just understand it they are doing this because they're probably feeling this I don't agree why.

Speaker 1 I don't, I don't, I don't know why they're feeling this, but that's, if they're, if, if I were feeling that way, regardless of why I was feeling that way, if I were feeling that way, how would I, oh, well, if I were feeling that way, I would probably be pretty pissed too.

Speaker 1 You know, it's this, it's like, that's, it's a mental exercise. You just, it's, it's not hard.
You just have to give a shit. You know, it's, it's a math problem.
It's like chess. And men are.

Speaker 1 can relate to math and chess and things like that. Men are more analytical.
It's a, it's a, it's a puzzle. That's all it is.

Speaker 1 Empathy is is a puzzle you just have to give a shit you're not asking him to be an empath no one want you know who i have no time for the people who walk around be like i'm an empath and i'm just like i understand your feeling how do you know who i am you haven't you haven't got to know me at all it's not energy that's how people are empathetic you're empathetic because you ask questions you pay attention you try to put yourself in their shoes the more life you live the more experiences you have and the old older you the only shortcoming that both of you have to be empathetic is that you're both only 26.

Speaker 1 and that like there's things that maybe you haven't experienced or felt as a result of like only being 26.

Speaker 1 Now, you might be able to empathize more than him because like maybe, you know, growing up with drug-addicting parents and having to live in someone else's house and joining the military, like, I bet you had to deal with a lot of shit and you've seen a lot of shit and you've seen hardships in other people and that makes it easier for to empathize.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, you know, but like maybe he has dealt with shit and maybe he just hasn't unlocked that skill set. But it is not some sort of like feminine woo woo kind of like vibe.

Speaker 1 It is literally just an exercise of like asking yourself, what would it be like to be in their shoes? And if that, if I felt that way, would I also be mad at this situation?

Speaker 1 Again, he doesn't have to agree with that person. He can just understand them.
And sometimes when you understand someone, it just makes it a lot easier to like close the gap of disconnection.

Speaker 5 Right. I think that'll be really beneficial for him when he hears it.
I won't tell him beforehand, but when he hears it, I think that that that'll be really good. That's something he definitely

Speaker 1 let him hear it for me.

Speaker 1 When you're listening, buddy.

Speaker 1 That one's for you. But yeah, seriously, it's like,

Speaker 1 it's not, I, I'm, me being better at empathizing with people has made my life easier. And I, I didn't do it to seem like a better guy.
And I didn't do it because I thought it would like look good.

Speaker 1 I just like, honestly, what just like helped me just helped my life.

Speaker 5 you know and i didn't have to like get crystals or or meet a sage in the mountains i just had to like ask i just had to give a and i just had to develop a skill i feel like that'll definitely give him some perspective hearing hearing your point of view on that because i've asked him before you know how why do you have such a hard time you know showing empathy or you know and he says that he has a hard time with it because he thinks that every decision you've made has gotten you to where you are so why should he feel bad for you about it huh That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 5 Yeah, he says that like when, and maybe I didn't say it in the best.

Speaker 1 sounds like something I would have said when I was 22, or maybe even 26. I don't know.
But so, yeah,

Speaker 1 he's a bit of an arrogant, young, confident guy who's a little too set in his ways. And

Speaker 1 he,

Speaker 1 honestly, the thing that humbled me was getting my heart crushed a couple of times. So maybe that's what will humble him.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You need to stop trying to take care of him.

Speaker 5 Yes. That's that's

Speaker 1 you you have a you have a a son to take care of you have yourself to take care of and not that you need a man to take care of you, but what's the point of being in a relationship if you're not taken care of?

Speaker 1 I didn't get in a relationship. I mean, I love taking care of my family, so that's kind of a lot, but like, you know, you need to be taken care of too.

Speaker 1 And you're not being taken care of. And the solution to not being taken care of isn't to take more care of the person not taking care of you.
You need to shift your energy to your son and yourself.

Speaker 1 And he needs to feel that energy shift. And that will be the thing that hopefully wakes him up.
Okay.

Speaker 5 All right. I have the questions written down.
I'm going to talk to him after this, and then I'll let him hear the rest from you.

Speaker 5 But I really appreciate your time and all of your insight and perspective.

Speaker 1 Between now and the episode comes out, don't be afraid to break up with him. Okay.
You can always get back together. And like, I'm rooting for the guy.

Speaker 1 And like, I'm flattered that he thinks I'm going to give you good advice. But like, you know, he, he's, this will be the best.

Speaker 5 I literally asked him, I said, well, what if he tells me to break up with you? And he was like, well, then I don't feel like he's leading you astray. Like, it's, yeah, it's it's astonishing.

Speaker 1 Again, this is either, this is, you know, he's, he's kind of a dick. He's got, he's kind of a dick.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He, I mean, again, and maybe he just doesn't empathy, his lack of empathy, but he should know that comet would hurt your feelings.

Speaker 1 And he can choose not to empathize, but like, no one's going to think he's, you know, yeah, at 26, I guess I didn't care if people thought I was a dick either, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 He should do it for himself because his life will be a lot easier when he decides to develop that skill. Right.

Speaker 5 Thank you so much. I do feel better.
I do. I've been like so excited for for this and anxious.
And I listen to you all the time. I know everybody always says that, but I, yeah, you guys are great.

Speaker 5 You keep me company on my commute.

Speaker 1 Well, I really appreciate you listening. Tell all your friends and hopefully things get better.
But you're only, you're only 26. You have too much going for you on your own.

Speaker 1 You've gone through too much. You've survived too much to be dealing with shit like this.
This is a relationship that's pulling you back. It's not bringing you forward.

Speaker 1 I want you to bring the like the attitude I want. Like, I I want you to get on the phone.
And like honestly, I wouldn't call him right away. Okay.
Don't. I would wait till the end of the day.
Be busy.

Speaker 1 If he's like, are you ignoring me? Be like, no, I'm sorry. I'm just busy.
You're not ignoring him. Okay.
And then when you get on the phone, I want the energy to be very much like, I'm the man.

Speaker 1 I'm in charge. I don't really care about the outcome.
Because that's the energy he's giving you. Right.
He's like, oh, well, if Nick tells you to break up with me, then I guess I have that answer.

Speaker 1 It's just like he's, he's so fucking indifferent about what happens. And like, that is a power move that he is doing it.
It's a defense mechanism. You need to turn it around.

Speaker 1 I want you to think about that energy he's giving you.

Speaker 1 If it's real, you definitely don't want him to be your boyfriend. If it's some court of act, then

Speaker 1 he needs a taste of his medicine. He needs, you know.
Right. So I want you to be the, you don't have time for him.
You got busy things to do. Like, you know, you can take him or leave him, whatever.

Speaker 1 Like at the end of the day, you're done having an asshole is a boyfriend. In fact, it would.
I can do that.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't even maybe get to him tomorrow. I would just be busy all day.
Okay. Be busy.
Oh, no, I'm totally, no, honestly, like, I'm just busy, you know, like Nick, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Like, he didn't, you know, I'm just, I'm sorry, I'm just busy. I'm still busy.
Blah, blah, blah. I'm busy.

Speaker 1 Let him stew.

Speaker 5 Okay, I can do that. That's a good challenge.
I can do that.

Speaker 1 He is so in control of his situation. He needs to, you need to take some of that control away from him.
Right. I agree.

Speaker 1 Keep him in the dark. Yeah.
Okay. All right.
Good luck. Keep me posted.

Speaker 1 I definitely want to. I will.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Okay. I will.
Thank Thank you guys so much for everything that you do.

Speaker 1 All right. Take care.
All right. You too.
Bye-bye. Bye.

Speaker 1 How's it going?

Speaker 6 Good. My name is Sarah.
I'm 26 years old and I am struggling to connect with my teenage son. Okay.

Speaker 1 How old are your son?

Speaker 6 So he's a teenager. He's in high school.
Okay.

Speaker 6 And actually, he's not biologically my son.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 6 Me and my husband took him and his sister in last year. So there's several layers to why it's difficult for me to connect with him.
One being being obviously, you know, he's biologically not my son.

Speaker 6 So I wasn't there to raise him or just build those connections early on. And then two, I've never had brothers.
I have two younger biological daughters. Okay.

Speaker 6 And so I feel like it's easy for me to connect with daughters, but I'm really struggling specifically with my relationship with him for a lot of reasons.

Speaker 6 And my heart's been hurting for him lately because he's really struggling with the transition of moving into our home and making friends.

Speaker 1 Is this like a foster parent situation?

Speaker 6 Sort of. It's kind of a unique situation.

Speaker 6 They're actually related to me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 6 And they had no other options of where to go given their circumstance. The next option was going to be foster care.
Okay. And I've always wanted to get into foster care and adopt since

Speaker 6 I was younger. And it just felt like me and my husband, we talked about it and we thought that that was, you know, the right thing to do.
And we felt led to do that.

Speaker 6 And so we took them in last year and transition was pretty good. You know, know, they're great kids.
We love them to death, and we see them as our kids. Okay.

Speaker 6 You know, even though they're not biologically ours, like when I talk about him, his sister, I see them as my children, and they will forever be part of our family, even when they're 18 and they're on their own.

Speaker 6 Like, those are our kids.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 6 So I'm just struggling. There's a lot to learn with just having a teenager.

Speaker 1 How long have they been in the household?

Speaker 6 Almost a year now. Okay.

Speaker 1 And you're asking questions mostly about your son, but he has a sister? Yep. Okay.
And how are are things with her?

Speaker 6 I would say things with her are a lot easier. I find connecting with her less difficult.

Speaker 6 And maybe that's because I can relate to her with just some of her, I don't know, just typical teenage girl struggles. I've been there, especially because it wasn't that long ago for me.

Speaker 6 I think, again, specifically why I'm struggling to connect with him is I didn't have brothers. I don't really understand what it's like to be a teenage boy.

Speaker 6 And we're, there's kind of friction between us

Speaker 6 because we have such opposite personalities as well. And so I just feel really bad because I know that I could be connecting with him better.

Speaker 6 And so I'm just seeking advice specifically from you too because you were a teenage boy. Yeah.
Just what is it that teenage boys look for in their mother figures and like what not to do? Sure.

Speaker 1 Well, I appreciate you asking. I mean, I definitely don't have a ton, obviously, of experience in dealing with this very specific thing, but I know you know that.
I have a few more questions.

Speaker 1 So I just want to clarify too like from a behavioral standpoint he's he's doing okay this is really just about like you're just not sure how to connect with this young man like what i guess could you offer any more specificity on the behaviors you are struggling with other than like feeling disconnected yeah and then my second follow-up question to that is is your husband experiencing a similar disconnection with him or is this more just your challenges Yeah, I can touch on that.

Speaker 6 So again, you asked how I'm doing with his sister. And I would say why I feel like I'm doing better with her also is we're just seeing more growth from her as well.

Speaker 6 Like we feel like we've made connection, we made breakthrough with her. She's done complete 180 from when she moved in.
Like she was hiding in a room all the time.

Speaker 6 Now she's got like girlfriends, boyfriends. She's doing much better in school.
She's putting herself out there.

Speaker 6 She has just this growth mindset. And I think.

Speaker 6 Again, why I'm calling is we haven't made that same breakthrough with him. And I'm wondering if that's because of the lack of the connection there.

Speaker 6 And if I'm maybe not understanding how to help them and best support and love him. But specifically behavior-wise, he hasn't made any friends at school.

Speaker 6 And he struggles with just some coping behaviors that we've tried to talk through, but we're not, again, not really seeing since he moved in. There hasn't been a ton of growth versus his sister.

Speaker 6 There's been a lot of growth and a lot of maturing. And we're just kind of feeling stuck, specifically me, with how to reach him.
So that's kind of the behavioral thing is struggling to make friends.

Speaker 6 And then also there's an inclination to substances and stuff like that, too.

Speaker 1 Okay. Oh, that's a bummer.
Is he more, do you know if he's more introverted, extroverted? Or, I mean, it sounds like maybe these kids also maybe dealt with a little bit of trauma.

Speaker 6 For sure. Oh, yeah, a lot of that.
And

Speaker 6 I think me and my husband both recognize why he may be struggling with substances and making friends. Like it's pretty clear to us those connections and why he's struggling in those areas.

Speaker 6 However, again, it's more of how do we reach him and how do we help him and support him.

Speaker 1 As a teenager, how does he getting access to any of these substances?

Speaker 6 So part of the equation, too, is they had to move from their previous town, which was more rural, much more small. And we live in the cities.
And a lot of his access is from his previous location.

Speaker 6 That is where he gets access because sometimes we do visitations because he has family and older friends there.

Speaker 6 And in the summer, we were bringing him there and that's where he would get access somehow.

Speaker 6 And then there's just a fascination with it as well, just researching ways to get it illegally, researching ways to get it as a minor. So he definitely has this draw to it.

Speaker 6 And again, me and my husband see it as, you know, those ties and connections to trauma and coping and learn behavior type things.

Speaker 1 Are you guys getting any like professional help like with

Speaker 1 like family therapists or anything like that?

Speaker 6 Yeah, so over the summer, that was actually our first kind of gateway to getting him in the door with therapy because he was extremely resistant.

Speaker 6 That's another thing that I struggled to connect with him on is he is extremely resistant to growth in general. He's like, the past is the past.
Like, I'm fine. You know, I don't have trauma.

Speaker 6 And so when he first moved in, I encouraged him and his sister to, like, my family is really big into therapy. Like, we think everybody should go.
It's great.

Speaker 6 you can have a lot of growth a lot of tools to navigate things in your life but he was extremely extremely resistant. The sister was not.

Speaker 6 I think that's also why she's made a lot more strides and growth and maturity. So that's been tough.
And then over the summer, he got into substances. He got caught.

Speaker 6 When he came back home, we said, hey, so one of the consequences for, you know, doing something you shouldn't is now we kind of have, you have no choice. Like you're going to go to therapy.

Speaker 6 So he is right now. But again, it's really hard because

Speaker 6 his therapist did say, like, you have to help me to help you.

Speaker 6 And it's been a constant theme of him not wanting to acknowledge, one, that he has trauma, two, he's not acknowledging that he has areas that he can grow in.

Speaker 6 And for me, that's where the disconnect happens. And I don't know how to reach him if he's not willing to learn and grow and mature.

Speaker 6 And so that's kind of why I'm looking for advice because I just kind of feel at a loss.

Speaker 1 It's a tough situation you're in. I know, I don't know how much help I'm going to be.
You know, because as a teenager, I fortunately had a very

Speaker 1 good upbringing. I didn't have to deal with a lot of trauma and things like that.
And I had a healthy relationship with my parents.

Speaker 1 If I were trying to just generalize young men in general, I don't know what he experienced, but I'll say this. It's not surprising to me that the older boy.

Speaker 1 is having a hard time coping with whatever trauma he had than the younger girl.

Speaker 1 I think in general, when you're younger, I think it's easier to work through that trauma, maybe a little bit more, depending on what happened or when it happened.

Speaker 1 And I think young men in general, they struggle expressing themselves and being more vulnerable and emotional and things like that.

Speaker 1 I think maybe that's where maybe your husband might be able to play a stronger role than you.

Speaker 1 One advice I would try to give to you is try, and I know this is the way you're phrasing it, but I would try to, and I'm not saying you're, you obviously all of your intentions are to help this kid, clearly, right?

Speaker 1 But like, I think it's less about

Speaker 1 your immediate connection with him and whether you feel connected to him and just trying to like figure out what this kid needs, right?

Speaker 1 Because this kid is struggling and we, you know, like, you know, you're kind of at a loss. Like, what will I give this kid?

Speaker 1 I can say that as a young man, as close as I was with my mom, I definitely was not like connecting with her.

Speaker 1 You know, I wasn't bonding with her, maybe as I did when I was a little boy and things like that. I think as a young young man, you are more drawn to either independence or other male role models.

Speaker 1 And so I, you know, to me, this sounds like a kid who's really,

Speaker 1 you know, friends. I would love to see him try to figure out making friends, you know, but like that might be something he struggle with right now.
It might be easier for him to

Speaker 1 have some more real strong male role models that he looks up to, right? That can be friends to him. He's going to need friends his age for sure.

Speaker 1 But that's, he might not have that skill set right now to develop those friends.

Speaker 1 But we want to nip this in the bud as early as possible so that by the time he gets to adulthood, he's not dealing with these same challenges of making friends.

Speaker 1 And like, you know, the last thing you want,

Speaker 1 shit. In 2025, I think regardless of what this young man has gone through, I do think we're dealing with an epidemic of like lonely young men.

Speaker 1 I think, you know, there's too many young men finding porn online,

Speaker 1 video games, porn, and drugs, you know, and it's just like

Speaker 1 lack of social skills. I honestly am worried.
But we need, you know, I think, yeah, I think your husband can probably have a stronger impact than you right now.

Speaker 1 I think, again, like, I just think it's, it's normal for young men to seek out male role models.

Speaker 6 Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't have used the word connection. I suppose maybe like parenting style would have been more appropriate because

Speaker 6 I just feel like I might be pushing him way more when handling these behaviors. So I guess it's less so connection because actually

Speaker 6 he's a little bit more different than I would say the average teenage boy. He's actually pretty attached to being my husband.
So yeah, you're right.

Speaker 6 The connection probably wasn't the right way to phrase it.

Speaker 1 But what does he like to do?

Speaker 6 Well, he does like to do the video game thing.

Speaker 1 Outside of video games, what does he like? Does he enjoy sports? What real life things could you like introduce to his life?

Speaker 6 He is in sports. He's kind of miserable because he's, I wouldn't say the worst player on the team, but he definitely doesn't get any minutes.

Speaker 1 Okay. So maybe he doesn't.

Speaker 6 So I just feel like his life's pretty tough. Okay.
He just has no friends. He's not getting any minutes.
And then he works a job part-time that he just hates.

Speaker 6 So I just feel really bad because I just feel like his life kind of.

Speaker 1 Does he need to work at this job right now?

Speaker 6 Over the summer when he lived with us, he was working at this job, but he chose to give give up a lot of shifts and kind of sit around.

Speaker 6 And his goal is to have a car and buy a car and pay for gas insurance and all those things, which we're super supportive of.

Speaker 6 And he kind of wasted his summer scrolling on TikTok, playing video games, giving up the shifts. And so he kind of feels this sense of urgency because he gets his license soon.

Speaker 6 So, yeah, so he finds work to be important just for the value of saving money.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. I want to just reaffirm I am not an expert, so take everything I say with an absolute grain of salt.

Speaker 1 But when you were talking about him getting a car, like, I just wonder if like a kid going through what he's going through right now, like having a driver's license in a car is the best thing for him right now.

Speaker 1 You know, and I was just like, because that's going to give him more freedom.

Speaker 1 And right now he's someone who's lacking direction, he's lacking friendships, and it's going to give him like a literal vehicle. and also a metaphorical vehicle to escape.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, and seek out.

Speaker 1 And my advice, honestly, the best thing I can offer you right now is I really think that like this sounds like a young man who needs to be surrounded as much as possible.

Speaker 1 We need to figure out what he enjoys, right? What does he have a passion for?

Speaker 1 You know, and he may, how most people don't know what their passions are, but I think trying to introduce him to new things.

Speaker 1 He needs to give a shit about something. He needs to be excited about something.
You know, if he, yeah, he's on the sports team, but he doesn't play.

Speaker 1 You know, even if he likes sports, playing sports might not be his thing. It's just going to make him feel less than.

Speaker 1 We need to find something for this kid that he gets into, that he feels like he's good at, you know, and then we need to like develop that passion.

Speaker 1 He just needs to give a shit about something, something that makes him feel a sense of pride, you know?

Speaker 1 And in the meantime, I would love for him to have some male mentors, role models, you know, like maybe it's your, hopefully your husband is, you know, is able to do that.

Speaker 1 And like maybe even your husband and his friends can like, you know, bring him along and show him the ropes about some cool things. He's going to, I hopefully look, look up to older men, right?

Speaker 1 The problem with is when, when young, confused teenagers in general, a lot of people in healthy lifestyles are just kind of too busy and too preoccupied.

Speaker 1 And like, and it's the bad people who seek out young, confused people like him and they become the bad role models, you know? And

Speaker 1 the last thing I want for this kid is to like get his license, get his car, and like to meet the wrong guy, you know?

Speaker 6 Yeah. How do you balance that though?

Speaker 6 Like you're saying, like, I agree, like, I, I don't really want him to have that freedom, but how do you balance that with, you know, we, we talk to him all the time about being responsible, you know, saving his money.

Speaker 6 Cause when he moved in with us, he spent all of it. So now he's actually trying to do the right thing by saving his money, you know, doing the driver's ed and all those things.

Speaker 6 So like my fear is exactly what you're saying.

Speaker 1 And well, the car makes sense though, but right? Because like, if nothing else, having his own car sounds cool to probably anyone, certainly a teenager.

Speaker 1 And that's the first thing from what I've, you know, again, I barely know, I know very little about the story, but like you gave him a goal.

Speaker 1 And granted, like, he's a teenager, so he played video games and was on TikTok and you didn't fulfill that goal, but there was a moment, or there still is a moment now, and now he kind of realized his mistake, right?

Speaker 1 And now he's reinvesting in that goal. And so

Speaker 1 he's willing to work a job he doesn't like to get this car. And that, to me, that shows that like we can channel this kid a little bit, you know,

Speaker 1 but we have to find out what his other goals and passions are. Right now, his only goal is to get out, to get a car

Speaker 1 and do it and have freedom to escape. And I would love him to, and we just have to introduce more things into his life.
Who knows what his passions might be?

Speaker 1 You know, like, what's his personality like? Is he analytical? Is he creative?

Speaker 6 So that's the hard part because we, me and my husband actually had this discussion. My husband's on the same page.

Speaker 6 He actually told me the other day, he's like, you know, what he needs is a little bit of a just a picker-upper by being good at something.

Speaker 6 Cause right now it kind of feels like he's getting beat down in

Speaker 6 every area of his life. So that's actually exactly what my husband said.
But what we're both struggling with is he kind of doesn't have much personality outside of he's a really, he's really kind kid.

Speaker 6 Like he really is. He's really well-mannered.
He has a really big heart.

Speaker 6 But as far as like gifts, passions, talents, interests, it again falls into that category of just he's kind of interested in escaping. And again, given his traumatic background, it makes sense.

Speaker 6 And, you know, he hasn't been under our roof very long. So again, like state stability hasn't been a thing for him.
So we're struggling. How do you, how do you introduce those things

Speaker 6 to someone who just his desire honestly seems like he just wants to numb out? Like that's all he wants to do. Like his goal is just to get home at the end of the day and just scroll on his phone.

Speaker 6 So it's just really hard to come up with ideas, especially because he really struggles with closed-mindedness too. Sure.

Speaker 1 And like when he's a teenager, the challenge is going to be on the side of you and your husbands, right? Because, you know, you're right. It's, it's, this isn't going to happen overnight.

Speaker 1 It's going to, like, it's going to require. And that's why, obviously, what you're, you, you and your husband are doing is very noble.
It's very challenging. Being a foster parent is very challenging.

Speaker 1 You know, it's a lot easier to be a parent when your kid, you know, like my daughter, River, it's just like, you know, right now she's delightful, but when she grows up, I'm not sure what personality traits she'll have or how difficult she might be in certain areas.

Speaker 1 But right now, we'll be able to be like, we're your parents, you do what we say, and blah blah. We have a little bit of control.

Speaker 1 And like, you're, you're just trying to like have this kid trust you, let alone like trying to like, I'm your parent, you know, and things like that. So you guys really are walking on eggshells.

Speaker 1 I think you just have to try to be patient as much as you can be. You're going to have to, you have to be resilient.
You're going to have to be able to try things out.

Speaker 1 You can't get discouraged around him when, and just be like, oh, God, what do you like? You know, things like that, you know, you're just going to have to keep trying.

Speaker 1 Something is going to land, right? In the meantime, I don't know. This is just like, again, my opinion.

Speaker 1 I don't know if a therapist would agree with me, but like, the kids need to believe in himself too, right? Right now, he probably doesn't believe in himself, doesn't believe there's much of a future.

Speaker 1 I don't know what trauma he experienced, but maybe he has a very pessimistic view on life.

Speaker 1 But you need to start, if any, if you preach anything to this kid, it's just like, I would do whatever you can to make him believe in himself. I would observe

Speaker 1 his good qualities,

Speaker 1 what do you think he's good at? Even if it's just gas this kid up, make him feel good about himself. Be a cheerleader.

Speaker 1 You know, don't be obnoxious about it, but like really, you know, hey, you know what? You know what I really pointed out? You know what?

Speaker 1 I really, do you realize how good you are at blank, blank, blink, blink, blank? Do you know, like, that was a really nice thing you did. That was really cool.
He's just not getting that anywhere else.

Speaker 1 Like, you have to go out of your way for you and your husband to just make this kid believe in himself. And if you can believe in himself, then he can believe in his potential, you know?

Speaker 1 And once you start believing your potential, then you realize you have something to live for.

Speaker 1 You know, right now he doesn't care about his choices because he doesn't really care what happens to him because life's a fucking drag and life's been nothing but like misery.

Speaker 1 And I can give you a bunch of reasons why life sucks. And I can give you very few reasons why life is awesome.
And you're, you and your husband, I honestly, if my opinion is it's your job right now.

Speaker 1 Not, I mean, it's not your job. You're doing a kindness.

Speaker 1 But like, if I were you, I would just try to make this kid just find something every day to make this kid smile, believe in himself, to have some pride in what he does, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, like that, pride, you know, feeling good about what he is doing. And then like something to live, you know, believe in the future.
Dream, have him dream about things.

Speaker 1 What do you want to do when you grow up? Like, dream big, too. Does he want to be the president of the United States? Does he want to be an astronaut? Does he want to fly a plane?

Speaker 1 Ask him about his dreams and make him believe that he has the right to dream big. Because right now he doesn't have a reason to dream big.

Speaker 1 He keeps his dreams small because most of his dreams, dreams he never even had, things he took it granted, took for granted, like a healthy home, those dreams were ripped away.

Speaker 1 He's probably very reluctant to have dreams, right? So, you know, you got to start small.

Speaker 1 But like, it's really just about getting this kid to start believing in life and hope and dream and aspire to do anything other than just escape.

Speaker 1 But you're going to, you will have to be patient because it's going to probably feel like it does now, like it's met with a ton of resistance.

Speaker 1 And I think you're going to have to not, you're going to have to be willing to accept that resistance and find the small wins. And it's going to take some time, but you just get to keep hammering.

Speaker 1 like you just described for a kid who's very used in temporary situations and things that don't last this could be an almost subconscious like test of like i don't know they're kind now but like they'll be dicks in a year I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know, they'll, they believe in me now, but will they believe in me in two years? I don't know. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 His, his resistance to your kindness might be like a test in a way, not even a conscious one, but could be a subconscious test.

Speaker 1 So I, I really think patience and resiliency and consistency on the part of you and your husband is the most important thing.

Speaker 1 And then, and then what you're consistent and resilient about is the, is making him believe in himself, giving him things to take pride in what he does, you know, to, you know, find ways to compliment him.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's his hair one day, maybe it's his sense of style the other day.

Speaker 1 Who knows what this kid's interested in?

Speaker 1 You know, again, it could be fashion, it could be engineering, it could be sports, it could be, maybe, maybe he sucks at sports, but he's amazing at fantasy sports. You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know, be open to anything. Honestly, we're just trying to find any win for this kid whatsoever.
Something that makes him go, I did that. That was cool.

Speaker 1 You know, that's why they give out gold stars to first graders, you know, because at an early age, they want a kid to feel like I did something.

Speaker 1 I used to tell the same story every job interview I had, and it was a true story. And because I was in a sales job, they fucking loved it.
But it's true. I remember the first thing I won.

Speaker 1 It was in the first grade. It was a coloring contest.
And my, you know, we were supposed to paint, supposed to color paint glass windows.

Speaker 1 And being a Catholic kid, my mom was like, you should paint all those little

Speaker 1 paint glass windows different colors. And all the kids were just like orange, purple.

Speaker 1 And we were, I will never I was in the first grade we're sitting in our little circle on the floor as first graders do

Speaker 1 and then in walked the results of the coloring contest and they called my name and I was the winner and that felt so fucking good like honestly I was like I like winning winning is awesome I want to replicate this feeling you know I feel really and wouldn't you know it I got really good at art and maybe that maybe I was always going to be good at art I don't know but like that belief in myself that I could do something good and I and I got rewarded for it and people were like that was cool good job and I had all you know I got accolades and attention and you know like that that affected me so to this I still vividly remember that day don't remember much about first grade do remember that day and it's because I won something you know and so like this kid needs wins he needs a lot of wins he needs some small wins he needs to and he needs to be able to trust these wins and he's gonna at first feel like it's insincere he's gonna feel like you're just saying it to be nice he's gonna find every way possible not to believe you and your husband, but you're going to have to keep being resistant.

Speaker 1 You're going to have to pee, you know, you have to stay patient, be consistent, and just hope that over time, this kid starts to trust, you know, and starts to believe in himself and then, you know, know that you guys will always show up for him.

Speaker 1 That's my advice.

Speaker 6 I think that's really good. That's a good call out, too, because I think that's an area that I struggle in.
If I'm being honest, I'm a lot harder on him for some reason than his sister.

Speaker 6 And I don't know if that's because our personalities are so different. And he kind of like,

Speaker 6 you know, in my high school experience, I was a three-sport athlete. I worked really hard, got straight A's, did all these things.
I was like a busy bee and he's kind of the complete opposite of that.

Speaker 6 And so sometimes I feel like I'm doing exactly the opposite of what you suggested to do, which was instead of like celebrating the little things, I can be extra like nitpicky and hard on him because he is so different from me.

Speaker 6 So I just think that's good advice and a good call out because.

Speaker 6 like as you were saying it like just celebrate like the little things i'm like oh here i am doing the opposite and kind of pointing out the little things that he could work on.

Speaker 6 And maybe that's where that kind of friction is happening between us.

Speaker 1 Well, that's why you're asking a third party. Yeah.
I can be,

Speaker 1 I can be nitpicky. I think we don't realize as parents.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's something as my daughter gets older, I'm going to, you know, Nellie and I will have to check each other, you know, because there will be a time to play good cop and there will be a time to play bad cop, you know?

Speaker 1 But right now, I think this kid needs a lot of good cop.

Speaker 1 And I think the bad, he's dealt with so much bad cop that like, let's, let's worry, let's get this, let's get this kid to believe in himself first before we start like i'm the kid who you need to be like hey buddy you're a little cocky you know when this kid starts getting real cocky and start you know then then you'll be able to nitpick right because that's when you're fine well so he does do that sometimes though like over things that are like like we'll be playing pickup basketball and he'll like over celebrate and is that a case where i do still cheerlead him even if he's being a little overly cocky or

Speaker 1 in your face especially it's not from what what you're describing oh big picture i would say yeah him overcompensating a small victory as a result of no one giving it paying any attention to this kid yeah and yes i think right now you should just celebrate this fucking kid i think you shouldn't okay you know he he needs a pick-me-up he needs to believe in himself he needs to feel like this is you know every kid has dreams and i don't know how much he's dreamt but every kid has dreamt about like being hoisted up on his friend's shoulders and you know he's watched tv nickelodeon the disney channel all these all the magical moments that are shown in these it's not a coincidence it's because kids fantasize about these things you know and he's like he's never experienced any of these things and he's on the end of the bench and he's not doing it you know and so like here he is with his his mom who maybe you've talked about your sports sports accomplishments and he like Maybe that's his trying to connect.

Speaker 1 And here you are. I'm not trying to make you feel bad being like, you know, again, there's a time and a place because you're probably trying to fine-tune his like, maybe social awkwardness.

Speaker 1 And you're thinking, oh, he needs friends. And so like, he, that might be obnoxious if he acts this way at school.
So I'm going to, I'm going to tweak that, right?

Speaker 6 To me. Totally, that was totally the intent.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And like, you're trying to fine-tune someone that's like, right now we're putting the car back together, right? The wheels are off.

Speaker 1 The engine's not even in the car. We're putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.
Once Humpty is back together, then we'll polish them. I just jumped from two analogies to another.

Speaker 1 But you get what I'm saying. Like, you know, now's not the time for fine-tuning.

Speaker 1 We're really trying to bring this kid into like believing in himself.

Speaker 1 You need him to want to say no to drugs because it's hurting him. It's hurting his body.
And his body is a temple and he's got one body.

Speaker 1 And the better he takes care of his body, the longer he'll live. But he doesn't give a shit about that right now.
Right.

Speaker 1 You know, because all he cares about is numbing the moment so he doesn't have to worry about all his fears, concerns, and why people don't believe him and no one likes him and why he can't find friends.

Speaker 1 And why would the fuck would he want to stick around for 80 years? So why should he give a shit about his body today? And we need to change that mental, we need to change course.

Speaker 1 And right now we need to love life, celebrate things, wake up, be grateful that he woke up and just be like, and celebrate his happiness.

Speaker 1 And like, I would, I would worry about the nitpicking for a while and let him be whoever the fuck he wants to be and celebrate him as long as he's a good person and he's kind to other people.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah, that's really good.
That's a great call out and that's really, really helpful.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he doesn't have to be cool. He doesn't have to be popular.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, we want him to make friends someday, but maybe making friends in adulthood is way more important than like whatever friends he doesn't have now. And that's where I think he can learn.

Speaker 1 I think your husband and his buddies should try to include him, bring him along. He might say no, but you always ask.
Never stop asking to include him. Always ask.

Speaker 1 Even if he says no every time, you know,

Speaker 1 he's expecting, you know, so always bring him along. Sporting events, fishing trip, whatever it is, you know, if it's not, if it's not adult focused.

Speaker 1 But when your husband's hanging out with his boys and doing that, that's, he'll learn how to be around.

Speaker 1 He'll make, he'll learn how to make friends by seeing your husband and his buddies interact with each other. That'll be the best.

Speaker 1 You know, he's not going to learn how to make friends by you nitpicking him and telling him how to act.

Speaker 6 Totally. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head.
That's really good. And it's hard to find those times.

Speaker 6 Like for my husband, it's really hard since we have four kids at home and he's worked, works a full-time busy job.

Speaker 1 It is kind of hard to find those moments to even bring him along because my husband doesn't get to have guy time that much so maybe that's something we can rediscuss though and try to make more of a priority listen and once again what you and your husband are doing is a noble thing and it's not easy to do but you know this kind of is what needs to be done in these situations to you got to try to find the time you know um

Speaker 1 And you could be, honestly, it could be saving a life, you know, this kid needs to believe in himself. And like, this is how he's going to learn being around good role models.

Speaker 6 Yeah. I think it's more of a monkey fee thing versus me and my husband try to have a lot of like just sit down heart to hearts and that's been going nowhere.

Speaker 1 So when you do that, you're telling him what he's doing wrong. This kid is probably so tired of negative feedback.

Speaker 6 Totally.

Speaker 1 Just show him what normal is like. He's never seen it.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.
It's really good. And I think you're right.
It's going to take a lot of patience and a lot of like growing pains for me too.

Speaker 6 personally because again it's it's hard to switch from parenting you know two littles like a toddler and a baby, to getting in that mindset of just listening.

Speaker 6 Like I feel like with little kids, it's a different approach of you're correcting them, you're teaching them, and you're talking to them about all these things that they're learning.

Speaker 6 And then you switch to parenting teenager and it's a total different game. Yeah.

Speaker 6 So I think that's probably where some of the growing pains are coming from my side for like from a parent parenting perspective.

Speaker 1 Totally. And it's good that you're mindful of that too, because again, this is a challenging thing that you and your husband took on.

Speaker 1 So it's going to come with stress and and it's going to come with feelings of maybe failure. And it's going to come with, you know, like stress also causes you to not be your best self.

Speaker 1 So like being mindful about that and then being mindful about not projecting it onto your son and things like that. Maybe small wins.

Speaker 1 I mean, I know a lot of teenage boys aren't into babysitting, things like that, but like maybe through parenting your two younger kids, like those are opportunities to compliment him.

Speaker 1 And especially when he does something kind or nice, again, the smallest, I would find anything to compliment this kid about. Anything.
And I would be very mindful of critiquing him.

Speaker 1 Short of him hurting himself, I would lay off the critiques.

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah. Well, I can tell he's craving it too.
Like, I was put in a situation yesterday where he showed me his background. Like, he really wanted to show me his background and his phone.

Speaker 6 And I got caught in a tricky situation of him looking for affirmation from me, but it was a picture of Scooby-Doo and

Speaker 6 smoking weed. And so it's like that put me in a tricky position where I could tell he craves like affirmation, but then I was stuck in being like, but that's kind of immature and

Speaker 6 weed's not great for you as a kid. Like whatever.
So I was like, you know, struggling with knowing he needs that affirmation.

Speaker 1 So then also he comes to me. So in those situations, ask more questions.
Well, what do you like about it? That's really good. That's really fun.
First of all, it's a very artistic painting.

Speaker 1 You know, you can find clever ways of, but like, what do you like about that? Like, you know, immediately you're like, oh, there's weed there. I mean, I get it.
Like, I,

Speaker 1 you know, it's, it's easier for me to say this, you know, now that I'm in this position, you know, not invested and heard your story. But like, in situations like that, just be more curious.

Speaker 1 That way, at least you're not criticizing, you know, what do you like about this? That's, you know, like, yeah, I loved Scooby-Doo as a kid. What a cool, like, you know, focus on the Scooby-Doo part.

Speaker 1 Forget about the immaturity part. Maybe he wants to be an artist,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 right? Like, why, what, like, what is it? Why does he like that? We need to find that out. And if it's the weed part, I don't know, maybe he's testing you.

Speaker 1 And, you know, like, you don't have to pretend as his caregiver and his mom mom that like, you don't think it's good he's smoking weed. It's not good for your brain.
It's not good for him development.

Speaker 1 Like, I wish I want you to take better care of yourself. But like, say it like that.
Instead of critiquing him and like, oh, you're dumb. Weed's bad.
It's like, I just love you.

Speaker 1 And I really want you to,

Speaker 1 I think you're capable of so much.

Speaker 1 And weed, you know, like it, it takes thing, you know, it helps with anxiety, but it also affects, you know, do some research, you know. But you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 It's, it's always from a position of love, not criticism, you know? Yeah. When you're criticizing, that's bad.
Why did you do that? Don't you know how bad that is for you?

Speaker 1 That's criticism, you know, care, you know, like I just,

Speaker 1 what is cool about it? But like, I really, you know, I want you to not like, this is dangerous stuff, but find those moments of him needing affirmation and focus on that.

Speaker 1 But that is a tricky situation, but you know, try to thread the needle and then maybe circle back, you know, about. the drugs, you know, but yeah, no, that's good.

Speaker 6 Being curious and asking questions, I think that's really good. And

Speaker 6 when you're talking about critiques, believe it or not, it actually comes out of a place of fear and control. That's where, why that comes out of me.

Speaker 6 And so just the willingness to let go of the fact that if I don't say, hey, this is bad, that he still, like you said, he still knows that, that that's where I stand.

Speaker 6 I don't have to re-verbalize that.

Speaker 6 But yeah, just switching my mindset to I'm asking questions because I want to get to know and understand him, I think would just be more helpful for me because a lot of times the critiques just come out of a place of fear of I don't want him to go down a path where it'll ruin his life or whatever.

Speaker 6 Or like, you know, again, it's more to do with generational history.

Speaker 1 Ironically, you called in with the question, how to connect more with my son, right?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 honestly, the solution is to do that.

Speaker 1 This guy, you know, he doesn't have friends. Be a friend, honestly.

Speaker 1 Be more of a friend and less of a mom in a weird way. Again,

Speaker 1 you are his mom, so make sure he's safe, but you're going to almost have to do it in a trick, you know, you're going to going to have to trick him, you know, make sure he's protected and safe.

Speaker 1 But like right now, he goes to school, he has no friends. He goes to sports, he's sitting on the bench, he has no friends.
The kid is just trying to get through the day.

Speaker 1 Imagine what it'd be like to have no friends. So be his friend.
Ask, again,

Speaker 1 show an interest in what he likes, what he gives a shit about, you know, same with your husband.

Speaker 1 It's going to have more impact from your husband because most teenage boys seek out male leadership and male role models and things like that. And like interest from your husband will go a ton away.

Speaker 1 Just like, hey,

Speaker 1 what do you do? How'd you do today? Like, what are you into? What do you like? I don't know. Does he, does he like movies?

Speaker 1 Like, fuck, give a shit in everything he gives a shit about and see where that goes. I think it'll go a long way.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think that's great. I think that's really helpful.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, good luck.

Speaker 6 Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
That really was thought-provoking and extremely helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm glad. I was a little nervous how helpful I could be, but I feel.

Speaker 6 No, it was really, really, really good.

Speaker 1 I feel good about, Yeah, I feel good about what was said. Please keep us posted.
I'd love an update. I mean, I would love to hear how this young man's doing.
But yeah, you're doing a great thing.

Speaker 6 Thank you. I appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 All right. Take care.
Thank you. You too.
Bye-bye.