#3060 RHOC S19E17 Part Two: And Just Like That…

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Speaker 1 Hi everyone, welcome back.

Speaker 2 This is part two of a two-part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe so that way you always get your episodes.

Speaker 2 But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode. So now it's evening and everyone is getting ready for glam and

Speaker 2 Shannon's like, so you guys travel to Paris and stuff. And the Glam people are like, yeah.

Speaker 2 She's like, oh, well, I am taking a train there tomorrow to visit my daughter who tried to move across the world to get away from me.

Speaker 1 But guess what? Surprise, surprise, second year in a row. I'm coming over.

Speaker 1 So Gina and Emily are still in their shitty, messy room. And

Speaker 1 we see the decorated penis still in there, which I like that Emily kept that. And Gina's like, oh my God, now, Emily, I just burnt my hair.

Speaker 1 I just burnt. You can't put plastic plastic into an iron

Speaker 1 you you your your your hair is made out of like pom-pom material what are you putting it in there for

Speaker 2 yeah don't do that do not

Speaker 2 do not do that um then uh they're all getting into dinner and heather's like shannon are you wearing slippers to dinner honey i i am i well originally i called these my nice shoes but we can call them slippers too thanks thanks for that i just can't believe believe it's our last night, guys.

Speaker 1 I just can't believe it. I just kept, oh, it's our last night.
I accept it. I accept it.
Let's eat. So they go in and they start talking about crab, like, let's get crabbed.

Speaker 1 And Tamara's like, we don't want itchy crabs. Okay, waiter.
Yeah, I've had crabs before. He's like, okay,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 Well, would you like to order some then? It's like, the itch feel bad, but I'm a bagana.

Speaker 1 I'm a bagana. It was hilarious.
There it's so bad.

Speaker 2 This place was crazy, by the way. They had like hanging fish everywhere, which is, you know, whatever fish place.

Speaker 2 But in there also in their like fish display, they had like several fish that they just like put citrus in their mouth. Like that fish was just like,

Speaker 2 like it was like a ball gag. And like I know, like there's a tradition of, you know, like a suckling pig.
You put the apple in the pig's mouth and everything.

Speaker 2 But I think the difference is that the pig definitely looks dead and cooked. It's like, oh, here is a cooked pig with a with an apple in its mouth.
But these fish still kind of look alive.

Speaker 2 They're not, but they just look alive because they're just sort of like in the same roth. They're like at their raw state.

Speaker 2 You just look at these fish, and you're like, Can we give the fish just

Speaker 2 a shred more dignity before it's consumed by the likes of like Tamara and Shannon?

Speaker 1 And before we know the lemon,

Speaker 2 it's just

Speaker 1 a fish.

Speaker 1 So they make a toast, and Tamara's like, guys, it's been such a rough year for me.

Speaker 1 What was Gretchen coming after me for over a decade?

Speaker 1 And then we start getting the done, done,

Speaker 1 Our favorite song.

Speaker 1 Keychange. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Bridge. That's all.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's see what's going on. Terry and Eddie have been spending lots of time in Big Bear, and Sophie is planning to move to New York City to pursue music.

Speaker 1 She has no plan to record anything with her mother because she'll probably fuck somebody named Nelson.

Speaker 1 okay back to my speech I just want to thank you guys for being there and Heather

Speaker 1 you helped me through some really dark times and I appreciate that which is my way of saying

Speaker 2 why are you such a shitty friend to me always and always such a bad friend to me bitch what Heather and Terry sold their Beverly Hills house at a $5.8 million loss. No big deal.

Speaker 2 And she doesn't plan on buying a new place in Orange County. And that's no lie.
Come on, Kyle Richards. We can be friends.
Let me onto your show, please.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, everybody.
So it was a great trip. And I'm really looking forward to the future with you guys.

Speaker 1 The gated group is still going strong, as are Gina and Travis. And Gina's still living without fear,

Speaker 1 unless she's critiquing Heather's improv.

Speaker 2 Excuse me. I also have an update, which is to say Shannon has a new guy in her life, Troy, a golden retriever, and she's writing this emotional high, space cake free.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 Can we get a new Alfredo in here for me, please? I don't like my pajunchas.

Speaker 1 May our glam always be flawless. May our receipts always be accurate.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 While Ryan and Jen still do not have a wedding date planned, Dawson recently graduated from Marines boot camp and passed out 20 minutes into the ceremony. So

Speaker 1 God.

Speaker 2 I just, I, I won't get, is it, is it really true that as a new girl, I don't get a bedumcha?

Speaker 2 There really is, there's just, there's there's just no other bedumpta that's around there for me to to hear?

Speaker 1 No?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Is that a pedumcha or is there an actual medical emergency happening right now?

Speaker 1 No? Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 1 So now Heather's like, okay, I'll do it again. So maybe our friendships, although sometimes complicated, always be worth the ride.

Speaker 1 What is she talking about? She's terrible at cheersing.

Speaker 1 Did you just make that up or read it at chat, GPT?

Speaker 2 Well, actually, funny story, I had Christy McNichol write it for me. And then when she gave it to me, I said, well, I'm glad you finally got a gig after 20 years.
Here's $5.

Speaker 1 uh emily continues to navigate luke's evolving diagnoses and she's learning to embrace life's unpredictable ride including the one at the abbey

Speaker 1 oh okay

Speaker 1 wait a minute are those sharks hanging down off the ceiling and they're like maybe it's a tuna i don't know is that a tuna or shark um hey everyone wait hey gretchen hey gina they they stopped playing the the the nice music at the end so i think that that means you have to start doing the dark stuff now.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay, okay, okay. Gretchen, there's something that I have to address with y'all.
When we were in Orange County...

Speaker 1 Oh, wait, wait. Are you talking about the conversation we had together? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's been weighing on me. Yeah, see it.
Say it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's been weighing on me. And

Speaker 1 I can't not bring this up, Gretchen.

Speaker 1 It's been weighing on me too. Like, weighing on me so hard that I had to have Gina say it for me.

Speaker 2 Okay, come on. Go do it, Gina.

Speaker 1 Do it. Well, Tamara shared a lot of posts that you've liked that are like very disparaging towards the LGBTQ community.
LGBTQ community plus community.

Speaker 1 LGBTQ plus community.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. I would never do that.
I mean, if I liked something, then I probably didn't know what it was about. I'm dumb.
I don't have any issue with the LGBTQ lethargic community.

Speaker 1 The lethargic GBTQ community.

Speaker 1 But wait a minute. Then why are you on social media liking these things? And she's like, um, well, unfortunately, sometimes I'm probably scrolling quickly and liking things.

Speaker 1 And so I don't know, maybe I'm not paying enough attention. Oh, no, ma'am.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Oh, really? You just happened to press like on accident on every single hateful fucking gay related post that there is.
Come on, Brett. Let's

Speaker 1 slipped into that one.

Speaker 1 you know sometimes i go on to no homo talk and i just like things by accident my bad so shannon's like i mean uh by the way uh how did you see it tamara let's let's not forget tamara over here because this would be fun well it was something that was sent through i heart and emma's like did you talk about it no i heart was like no that's why i heart sent it to me because they were like don't talk about this So Jen is like, but Tamara, do you have it up?

Speaker 1 She's like, yeah, here it is.

Speaker 2 So they're looking at it and Gina is like, oh my God, there's like a lot of it. And there's like one about Dylan Mulvaney.
Jen's like, who's that? She is a friend of mine.

Speaker 2 And we have a flashback to earlier in the season when Dylan was on Heather's podcast and they talked about the discrimination and the hate that Dylan receives as a trans woman.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 You know, they're saying like, oh, this was just sent to Tamara and iHeart. iHeartRadio sent Tamara headlines, meaning they were things that were already out in the news.

Speaker 1 This was not something that was like, oh, iHeart's doing this deep-cutting investigative journalism. All the ladies knew that this has been out.
I mean, this is crazy.

Speaker 1 This stuff has been out for over a year at least. It's been out a couple of years.
I've known about it. And I'm not like some magic person doing detective work here.
They all know this.

Speaker 1 You're telling me that no one, no one texted Heather DeBrow and said, look at all these likes of Gretchen's. No one, really, and all of this.

Speaker 2 Someone reminded me this morning. They added me, and there is a giant thread on

Speaker 2 X

Speaker 2 that says it's a thread exposing Orange County alum Gretchen Rossi's problematic views, including racism, homophobia, transphobia, COVID misinformation, et cetera.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 it's one thing. It's like one screenshot after another, after another, after another of like the things that Gretchen has liked.
And that was August 5th, 2023. So it has like, it's been out there.

Speaker 1 It's been out. So everybody pretending they've never heard of this and they can't believe it.
And they're all so shocked, especially Heather. Like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 This stuff has been out there forever. And someone sent this to you.
And I don't believe for one second that the rest of us saw it, but you didn't. That's just absolute bullshit.

Speaker 1 I think the show told them, listen, we're going to bring Heather. We're going to bring Gretchen on here and we don't want this to become, you know, some

Speaker 1 hate-filled blah, blah, blah. We don't want you to go for her for that because, you know, Tamra's had this in her back pocket for years to use.
Anybody who doesn't like Gretchen has.

Speaker 1 So I'm just not buying this. And it's

Speaker 1 crazy to me.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I'm going to say that Heather like knew new.

Speaker 2 I think I sometimes think like Heather could be like me, where it's like, I hear from like you, oh, Gretchen's been posting like really homophobic stuff. And I'm like, okay, I trust that you said it.

Speaker 2 I trust you. And I'm like, oh, I hear that she does homophobic stuff.
But like, I

Speaker 2 don't really like go necessarily like go out and find the tweet and look at what she liked because I'm lazy and I'm like okay I trust Ronnie on this one and then but but by me not doing that I just I'm like okay whatever and not whatever like that's that's okay but it doesn't hit with the same potency as it does when you actually see what she has liked and I would not be surprised if Heather is sort of in a similar place because I do think that Heather is she she is a really strong advocate for these things.

Speaker 2 And I don't think that if Heather had seen it with her own eyes, I don't think she would, she would be chill. I really don't.

Speaker 2 I think maybe she known about it. And I can imagine she did a mental workaround where she said, well, she's conservative.

Speaker 1 I'm liberal.

Speaker 2 We'll find a way to shoot together. Find a way.
And I don't think she really knew,

Speaker 2 or she was in denial or whatever until this moment. Maybe I'm being naive, but that's really how I read the situation.

Speaker 1 I just don't see a world where someone in the audience didn't send her some of these screenshots. I mean, I'm going to go over them some of these right now because these are insane.

Speaker 1 And some of them, like in the one you sent where there's 20, some of that you can argue and say, well, these are just conservative views. These are what people are saying all the time on Twitter.

Speaker 1 Okay. Some of them.
We teach gender ideology in school. And so it's normal for half of pre-teen classrooms to be gender questioning.
Kids admit the cool kids in their class are transgender.

Speaker 1 So they just want to be trans too. It's all too much.
Dems have gone too far. I'm out.
So things like that. I read that.
I'm extremely offended, but I read it all the time in conservative threads.

Speaker 1 So I'm also not not shocked that someone who's really MAGA and conservative would say that, right? But then you get to posts like this one. Hold on a second.
I've got these all over my phone.

Speaker 1 This was by Tyson James, liked by Gretchen Rossi.

Speaker 1 When you opened the door to homosexuality, you opened the door to pedophilia. You'll never win by normalizing perversion.
Sin is a slippery slope. You think it's bad now? Give it a couple of years.

Speaker 1 If you want to save the kids, start by calling homosexuality what it is. That was July 14th.

Speaker 1 So there's no world in which somebody like me or somebody in the audience doesn't send this to these people in the cast. I just don't believe it.
So

Speaker 1 I don't know. I think it's a thing.

Speaker 2 I think other people in the cast may have known. I think they, I don't know.
It's,

Speaker 2 I don't, do you think that Gina, do you think Gina had seen these before?

Speaker 1 Yes. They've all seen them.
These people are all on here all the time looking at Instagram and seeing what everybody's talking about.

Speaker 1 That's all they talk about on Housewives now is like what's going on on the blogs who's talking to the blogs who said what they all know they're certain bloggers they're all caught talking to the bloggers i just can't believe and they're all on instagram constantly and their assistants and their social media people are on there constantly there's no world in which heather doesn't have a million people telling her heather This woman is crazy.

Speaker 1 And look at all the stuff she's liking on here. This stuff, this is not some hidden thing that hasn't been out.
This has been out for a long time.

Speaker 2 So do you think Gina acted very much like this is the first time she'd seen these.

Speaker 2 Do you think it was a situation where by Tamara bringing it up on camera, I think it was like, do you think it was a situation where they're all looking the other way?

Speaker 2 Cause it was like, this is the sort of thing that's like a little too serious for the real housewives.

Speaker 2 And do you think that when Tamara brought it up to Gina on camera, Gina realized that she had to kind of like take a stand? and say something

Speaker 2 rather than being accused of looking the other way. Do you think she was getting ahead of the story in that way, which is why she confronted her? No.

Speaker 2 Similar to the advice she gave Katie regarding Heather DeBrough last season, like you have to talk to Heather DeBrow because if you don't, I'm going to have to do it. Do you think that was it?

Speaker 1 I think she's like a producer plant and she and Emily do whatever the producers want is what I think. Like anytime something needs to move forward, they're always the ones to come forward and do it.

Speaker 1 But if Tamara told them two or three weeks ago before this, they've all just been sitting there on this, not saying anything on camera, which is bullshit.

Speaker 1 I don't believe that any of them would do that.

Speaker 1 I don't believe Tamara would sit on this for a whole year when she's going against Gretchen and fake quitting the show and doing all this stuff if she had this in her pocket.

Speaker 1 I think production was saying, You're not going to be able to use it. And Tamara was like, Well, I'm going to use it.

Speaker 1 And so, for two weeks, they've been trying to figure out how are we going to deal with this. Okay, let's put it in the last five seconds of the show.

Speaker 1 So, and then we'll, and then producers turned it back on Tamara by saying, Okay, well, if Tamara's going to do that, then we're going to blow it all back on her and expose all Tamra's shit and make Tamra the villain and all of this.

Speaker 1 It's just so, it's just so crazy.

Speaker 1 And it's crazy that me, of all people, would stick up for Tamara in this situation because I don't, I do 100% believe that Tamara has relationships with bloggers and that she's shady and she's doing everything that they're accusing her of, but it doesn't change the fact that Gretchen, like all these, there's tons of them.

Speaker 1 There's tons of them. There's tons of them.
We're like, I got my Trump hat. And it's like, there is a line of like, okay, we're watching TV and politics.

Speaker 1 And especially if you're doing something in Orange County, where there's a lot of conservative people in Orange County. Everybody knows it, you know? And so how much of that do you put on the show?

Speaker 1 And how much of it do you want the audience fighting over political shit? Right.

Speaker 1 And I can see how the producers wouldn't want that because it's going to piss everybody off and nobody wants to see that on TV. However,

Speaker 1 this is beyond just political shit. She is posting nasty, homophobic, transphobic, horrible, horrible, horrible shit that they're just trying to sweep under the rug here.
And it's gross.

Speaker 1 It's fucking gross. And I think that the whole cast is complicit in agreeing to go along with it in the first place.

Speaker 1 And I think they do it a lot where they're just like, okay, we're going to let this person get away with bad behavior because we want our job on this TV show.

Speaker 1 And they choose to.

Speaker 2 I think that's, I think

Speaker 2 that's a fair point. And I mean, if Tamara saw these, these headlines a year ago,

Speaker 2 what's hard to imagine, I guess I don't know if I'm walking back some of my words or not, but as I'm just sort of thinking through it like on the fly, it's hard to imagine that the moment that Tamara hears that Gretchen's coming back on the show, her arch rival, that Tamara doesn't immediately call up Heather DeBru and say,

Speaker 2 Gretchen's Gretchen's coming back. And just so you know, she's done this, this, this, this.
These are all her tweets. It's hard to believe.

Speaker 2 And in fact, they ask her later on, like, why would you, why would you reach out to Gina and not Heather? And that is a really weird thing.

Speaker 2 So I don't know why she wouldn't reach out to Heather. Maybe, maybe in that moment, Tamara is actually protecting Heather.
Maybe she had reached out to Heather.

Speaker 2 And she's not saying that she did that because she doesn't want to put Heather in a really tough situation. So she says she just only reached out to Gina.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 There's really a lot to speculate on in this situation, but you're right.

Speaker 2 In the end, seeing really like looking at those tweets today, this morning, it's, it's pretty shocking what had, what, what, what Gretchen liked.

Speaker 2 And what's also, what's even more shocking is her inability to like her attempt to actually act like it wasn't her that she didn't do it. I'm like, you cannot come onto this show with that hair,

Speaker 2 praying in a family circle before you go up to Beverly Hills for sleepover, praying to Jesus, and then act like

Speaker 2 and act shocked that anyone would even think there's any, uh, like the any like that people would accuse you of liking these things. It's like,

Speaker 2 like, it's it'd be one thing if like

Speaker 2 you turn it on and then you see like Lisa Rinna liking all this stuff, and you're like, whoa, that does Lisa Rinna was probably hacked. I don't know why Lisa Rinna is my choice, but like, whatever.

Speaker 2 But I would still think Lisa Rinna's hacked. But, Gretchen, you come on here

Speaker 2 dressed like a mega, like Megan Kelly meets like the 1950s, and you're, you're very, very religious, and then you're caught liking

Speaker 2 very sort of right-wing, hateful views on gays and trans people. And then you act like it's crazy that people would think that those are real likes.
Like you can't bamboozle us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're not that fucking stupid, lady. My God, it's crazy.
Well, some people are because I'm reading the comments and I'm like, what? People are falling for this bullshit? This is such crap.

Speaker 1 I can't believe it. But I just find it interesting that everybody's taking a side.

Speaker 1 It's like either I believe that there are a lot of people who believe Gretchen's innocent and they're like, you guys need to leave conservatives alone. We're being bullied.

Speaker 1 And then there are a lot of people who are like, no, fuck Gretchen, get her off this show. But

Speaker 1 I don't see why everyone's not outraged at this whole thing because everybody fucking knew this was going on. Everybody, including Heather.

Speaker 1 And Heather re-followed Gretchen last week and all of this other shit. So I don't understand what's happening.
And I guess maybe the reunion will explain it.

Speaker 1 But unless someone went seriously Photoshop crazy, Photoshopped all these random, which seems like such a random way to get at somebody. Like, oh my God, look what posts she liked.

Speaker 1 I don't think that would be something that you fake. You would fake actual posts that she made, right? No one's going to go fake a whole internet history for years and years of this shit.

Speaker 1 So I don't know what they're doing to explain it, that Heather would even forgive this at all, or any of them would forgive this shit at all.

Speaker 1 But for them to all act like they've just heard it is absolute hogwash.

Speaker 1 and i think this this show owes everybody an apology because this is bullshit this is bullshit and we've got a lot more to go that was that's just the start it's time for a commercial it's time for a crappin's commercial

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Speaker 1 so they're confronting gretchen and she's like, oh my God, they've got to be kidding me, right? Because like, out of all the things you could say, this is what you're going to come up with.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is just ridiculous. Nothing's true.
And Heather's like, do you understand that I just threw an event for the Trevor Project? LGBTQ plus youth in so in danger right now. Every 40 seconds.

Speaker 1 She's like, yeah, somebody commits suicide. I know.
And so now they're like kind of chatting at each other. And Tamara's like, well, yeah.
And you know what? And Heather goes, I am speaking.

Speaker 2 I was like, yes. This is a righteous, my turn, still me.
I was like, yes, it's

Speaker 2 a righteous version of it. I love it.
And she's, and so she says, like, every 45 seconds, a queer child tries to kill themselves.

Speaker 1 And Greg is like, yeah, I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 It's like, do you understand what hate rhetoric like this does to our children?

Speaker 1 She's like, yes, yes, I do.

Speaker 2 No, you don't. You obviously do not.

Speaker 1 No, you don't. And you don't care.
And she's just sitting there really calmly, like trying to figure out what to do. You know, like her whole demeanor is really weird.

Speaker 1 She's like, um, but no, it's not true. I mean, what? I mean, it's just

Speaker 1 unbelievable.

Speaker 2 If I, if I am, honestly, if I am pro-gay and I'm being accused on camera of being anti-gay or like, well, obviously I'm gay. How about, let's say like racism? Okay.

Speaker 2 Someone says I'm a racist and I'm on camera and I, I believe in my heart of hearts, I am not racist. And I said, and I, and someone accused me of that on camera, I'm not going to be like, no,

Speaker 2 no, I'll be like, what? No, absolutely not. Like, what happened? Like, how can I clear this up? Like, there must be some misunderstanding.
Show me what happened.

Speaker 2 I need to like address this right away. Cause like, if I, if I did something, if I put that out there, like, oh, I, I need to clear this up.
And if I said something wrong, I need to apologize.

Speaker 2 Like, I need to like, like, I, I, is it

Speaker 2 mandatory, mandatory that people know that that's not what's in my heart right now. And Gretchen's just sitting there like, huh?

Speaker 2 Cause like you said, she's trying to figure out like, oh shit, this is coming up. How do I spend this? How do I get out of this?

Speaker 1 Like, she knew what I was doing. What do I do?

Speaker 2 I thought I already put this fire out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She knew. She knew it was going to come up.
So she's like, wait a minute. Didn't we already delete all these likes? Like, how am I getting, how am I getting pummeled for this?

Speaker 1 Like, you can see her so confused about it.

Speaker 1 And also, one little thing that's missing here, which is, I think, the smoking gun, is if somebody comes at you and says there's all these posts that you like and Tamara has the screenshots, when are you going to say, show me the screenshots?

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Show me the accounts.
Go online right now. And why aren't they saying, where's your phone? Show us who you follow on your phone.
Show us these lies. Show us that you didn't like these things.

Speaker 1 Go ahead. Show us.
Nobody's doing that. So

Speaker 1 I just, this whole thing is so gross. So then Heather's saying, this doesn't seem like Gretchen because Gretchen's always had a lot of friends in the community.
And if it's true, she has no words.

Speaker 1 I mean, people that you guys are doing your hair aren't really friends in the community.

Speaker 1 And hiring somebody to come be a clown at your fucking drag drag queen tupperware party in 2012 doesn't prove anything either well it's also like saying well i like a lot of i have some of my best friends are black you know people

Speaker 2 yes there are a lot of we see it all the time where people kind of like to visit a marginalized community um in a sense and yet not actually support them you know it's like sometimes you people like to come and get the perks of it and love the association of it.

Speaker 2 But when it comes down to actually what you're voting for, what you care about, what you advocate for it's like crickets so gretchen's saying that she had a drag tupperware party and like if that's the best you can do is like cite a party you had in 2009

Speaker 1 okay an on-camera party with drag queens like oh okay okay gretchen so she's saying it's not like me heather and she goes why are you not horrified like can someone at least show her the like because she still hasn't even asked to see them so gretchen's like well it just makes me really sad guys and she goes it makes you sad.

Speaker 1 And Tamara's like, yeah, well, if you feel that way, just say you feel that way and at least stand up for what you believe, you know, because you're representing us when you're on this show, basically.

Speaker 1 So Gina does show Gretchen the phone and Gretchen doesn't really look at it, you know? And Heather's like, this is about human decency. And then Jen tries to jump in.
and help her.

Speaker 1 And she's like, well, maybe do you feel biblically like this is something? Because I know you're very strong in your faith. And Heather's like, biblical? Yeah.
Like, don't even start this shit.

Speaker 1 shit, yeah, don't even try it.

Speaker 1 And Jen's like, I'm just asking her, I'm just trying to find out why she would do this. And Tamara's like, Jesus, that's the people.

Speaker 1 And she's like, Jen's like, whoa, no, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 I'm just trying to figure it out.

Speaker 1 And Heather goes, Jesus does not like hate. She's like, I'm not saying that, Heather.

Speaker 2 Uh, Jen, this is Heather is angry right now. Just, just step back.

Speaker 1 Let, because Heather, I mean, Heather was

Speaker 2 livid. I mean, she was, I mean, the rage was in her eyes and justifiably so.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 she, you know, they're like, Jesus doesn't. And Jen's like, listen, I'm not trying to stand up for Gretchen.
I'm just trying to give her an escape, an escape hatch to leave out of and get out of here.

Speaker 1 So Jen, friend to no one, Jen's like, well, I'm just trying to understand. Where would her fucking mind be? I mean, it doesn't add up.
You know, I know Gretchen.

Speaker 1 I know her soul and I know her heart and something's amiss here.

Speaker 1 And I don't think it is. I mean,

Speaker 1 if you've looked at her Instagram one time, you pretty much know where she stands. I don't know how this is shocking to you, Jen, but okay.

Speaker 2 Well, also the nose is a mess because it's really been face-tuned out. So Heather says, you are intentionally liking hate rhetoric.

Speaker 1 She's like, I don't know what you're talking about. So that's why I'm asking.
You did that.

Speaker 2 It's and so Gina's like, look, it's here, right? You see that?

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 she's going to need an explanation. You see like that hot.
You see your name on there? That means you like something. Okay.

Speaker 2 And Gretchen's, Gretchen is just stalling out. She's just trying to figure out what her game plan is.
She's like, oh, I understand.

Speaker 2 She's like, all I know is I'm seeing a screenshot of something I supposedly liked and I've never seen it in my life. And I'm completely blind's eyed with this information that is not my truth.

Speaker 2 I don't have the answers for you right now because it's just not who I am. I mean,

Speaker 2 how do you say you don't have the answers for you? Because it's not who I am.

Speaker 2 I don't like it. It's wild.
Like, the thing is, we're all.

Speaker 2 The whole like the spoof, spoof texts, spoof phone calls, this comes up on Bravo every now and then. It's always a losing argument.
Like, you liked it. If anything, just say, you know what?

Speaker 2 I liked these things two or three years ago. I

Speaker 2 it's something that I believed in at that time. I've since done a lot of work and I've learned from people and I realized it was a really closed-minded, like just

Speaker 2 attempt to do something like that. And she just can't even do that.

Speaker 1 I mean, she's just, and also, as we find out later, she still follows all these accounts, these same accounts.

Speaker 1 These are not just like random posts that never come up on these, the Matt Walsh blog, et cetera.

Speaker 1 This is like rhetoric you don't, or rhetoric, sorry, that you don't, um, you don't just see once in a while on these accounts. The shit is on those accounts all the time.

Speaker 1 Fucking, I mean, it's just ridiculous. So she's like, what? I never even seen those screenshots.
And that's, listen, I'm telling you, that's how I fell.

Speaker 1 And Heather's like, um, Gretchen, why would you do that? And she's like, I don't know. And they're like, I don't know.
It's not a good answer. She goes, I don't know, though.

Speaker 1 So then, of course, she runs off and calls Slade. And Shannon's like upset and she's crying.
And she's like, some of my best friends are in that community and I can't believe this.

Speaker 1 And so now that Gretchen has run off, Jen's like, so wait, Tamara, you knew about this for how long? And she goes, about a year. And Shannon's like, well, why wouldn't you say anything before?

Speaker 1 And she's like, because no matter what I say, I'm the bad guy.

Speaker 2 And Shannon's like.

Speaker 1 But if it's, that's not the point. Don't try to deflect by it.
Why don't you say something sooner? Are you defending her?

Speaker 2 It's like, no, but it's a legitimate question.

Speaker 2 If something heinous happened why wouldn't you let us know she's like because it's so gross it was too dark and if it was something something this dark and this gross should only be brought up on a cat's trip by gina

Speaker 1 yeah it's so gross it's so dark i mean if it was something fun and light like cheating on your boyfriend with cancer that would have been fun but you know this is too dark and too dark you know and so i was just going to say like you guys are trying to blame me for not telling yeah but the point of this is you're making them look bad if they they didn't know, which obviously I don't believe at all, but if they didn't know and you did know, you're making that, you're putting them in a position where they're supporting this person all year long.

Speaker 1 And then boom, at the end of the year, you're like, ha ha, you've been supporting a hateful bigot that whole time. You know, so you are putting them in a bad situation.

Speaker 1 It's assuming Tamara is telling the truth.

Speaker 2 It's shitty of Tamara because she's like, well, I'm always the bad guy. But like, that has never, ever stopped Tamra before.
Like she'll, she'll say things.

Speaker 1 Like, fine, don't believe me. I'm always the bad guy.

Speaker 2 But like, she willingly does things like this before. And if this is something that she was like, she actually was, you know, truly upset about.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm not saying that she's not upset about it, but I'm saying like

Speaker 2 she is obviously like, this is so bothersome to me, but you've held on to it for a year and you didn't ever say anything like that.

Speaker 1 Any true, any true ally would have said something, period. And that's my problem with all of these ladies.
You know, you choose something like a television, you're on a fucking gay network.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure that that's why the network, I'm sure, was like, we're not bringing this shit up on the network.

Speaker 1 like hell no this is like a very big like gays love this network you know we're not going to touch this but you brought her back knowing that this shit was going on and then you were just going to try and sweep it under the rug and be quiet no you all you fucking all suck you all suck like i don't think there's any standing up for any of them in the in this for me like they're all fucking gross

Speaker 2 yeah so tamara tamara's basically saying if i were accused of being a homophobic bitch i'd be crying my eyes out and gretchen's like but i know i'm not i'm not i'm i I, I'm, I'm upset like about something, but that I, I'm not upset about something that I know who, because that I know who I am and what my heart feels.

Speaker 2 Gretchen's saying she's not going to get upset because she knows her truth. I'm like, I think that's the most time.
That's exactly when you get upset.

Speaker 2 When you know exactly who you are and what you believe in, and you are being misrepresented in a massive and hurtful way on TV, you get very upset. She gotten upset over less.

Speaker 1 This is where she's like, oh, this is crazy. I mean, I had a drag queen tepper party in 2009, which we see.

Speaker 1 And she's like, I've never been judgmental or had anything negative to say, you know, like, I don't care about people live their life.

Speaker 1 And we see Heather, she's moved off to the bar to call Terry and she's crying and saying, oh my God, Gretchen has been liking all these anti-gay, anti-trans posts.

Speaker 1 And then back at the table, Gretchen is still saying she's shocked and she doesn't remember liking any of this. She's like, what? I don't even know the account that you just showed me that I follow.

Speaker 1 And Tamra's like, not buying your bullshit and she's like well you guys are trying me to make me out to be a homophobic person it's like oh my god

Speaker 2 and emily's like you're just sitting there going i don't know i don't know and they're basically sounds like go talk to heather okay she's obviously upset like yeah the burden emily says the burden's on you to make her feel better so gretchen leaves the table And Emily's like, if I was being accused of something that I absolutely do not do, I'd be crawling across the table, beating the fucking shit out of Tamra.

Speaker 1 Judge. I mean, I'll do that anyway.
And the fact is that she's angry. She doesn't make it.
She's not angry. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 2 So Gretchen goes up to Heather and Heather is like, well, I don't know what to say.

Speaker 1 I'm horrified. Horrified.
And Gretchen's like, but do you think I have hate towards your children?

Speaker 2 And it's like, it's, it's frustrating. It's frustrating, at Lisa Barlow would say, because like people

Speaker 2 underestimate their ability to compartmentalize and that like. Gretchen can be sweet and lovely to Heather's children in one space, but then like

Speaker 2 an Instagram post in another. And it's like, you know, you, people don't realize how like you, that they, they do that.
And then they're like, what?

Speaker 2 But like, just because I like this one thing over here, look how I'm nice to these people over here.

Speaker 2 I'm like, yeah, because you're kind of like, I don't know, is this the definition of exceptionalism or whatever, but you're sort of viewing those like, oh, well, I like Heather's kids.

Speaker 2 They're, they're like the good ones or whatever. So she doesn't realize.

Speaker 1 I think it's typical in extreme religious. I grew up in a very extreme religious environment.

Speaker 1 And I cannot tell you how many times I was told like, oh, you're, you know what, Ronnie, we love you so much, but, you know, it's just hate to sinner, don't hate to sin or hate to sin, don't hate to sinner.

Speaker 1 You know, what you're doing is wrong. I don't agree with your lifestyle.
No, of course you shouldn't have the right to get married.

Speaker 1 Of course you shouldn't because that's just not God's will, but it doesn't mean I have to hate you.

Speaker 1 It's almost like, look at what a good person I am by being nice to somebody that's an absolute garbage sinner.

Speaker 1 you know, which is the attitude you get a lot and you will get it straight to your face of people telling you, you don't deserve your equal rights and you don't deserve shit.

Speaker 1 And you should have the right, they should have the right to discriminate against you. And if we gave you the right to get married, we'd be given the same right to people to marry their goat.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've been told this shit to my face by my own family. Like, this is not some new thing, this new phenomenon that's just happening with people like Gretchen.

Speaker 1 And it's a pretty interesting reckoning right now in our country where this stuff is happening.

Speaker 1 And now we're seeing these people take over the laws and we're seeing what they're doing, doing, what they're doing with the laws to turn them against gay people, minorities, what they're doing with ICE, what they're doing.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just a fucking clusterfuck right now in this country. And now we have to listen to these people being like, oh my God, you guys are bigots.
Who are the real bigots?

Speaker 1 It's you guys who are calling us out on your podcast and you're calling us out in comments and you're calling us out online and you're trying to cancel us and we're just trying to have an opinion.

Speaker 1 Fuck you. Your opinion is that nobody else should have rights except you.
So go fuck yourself, Gretchen. I'm not going to sit here and listen to you fucking cry.

Speaker 1 And I'm not going to sit here and listen to these other ladies act like they're fucking heroes for calling her on Instagram posts that have been out for years and they did nothing about so they can make their fucking paycheck sitting on this show and pretending that they like her for money.

Speaker 1 Fuck all you guys.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well said. So the back at the table, you know, Shannon and Tamara, Shannon's talking about how the damage is really deep and everything.

Speaker 2 And Tamara saying it's disgusting and, oh, it's a horrible situation.

Speaker 1 And then naturally, Tamara goes, I mean, she's a horrible fucking person she's been going after me for 12 years i'm like okay tamara no you can't this is not your moment yeah you're a real fucking stonewall tamara

Speaker 2 tamara once again trying to like push her going after me for 12 years agenda so gretchen calls up slade and she's like they're accusing me on on on of liking posts on instagram that are homophobic and he's like what

Speaker 2 yeah you have no idea i was like well that's crazy I mean, that's like, that's so not like you. I'm confused.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're accusing me of being homophobic.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 And you know that they're planning this because they automatically have, they automatically have their backup, right? So it's like, oh, really?

Speaker 1 Tamara, the lady who made a homophobic slur on camera at me in 2008 when she said, I look like a homo for wearing white thong sandals. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yes, that was terrible too. I'm not letting Tamara off on anything.
That was 2008. This was last year.
This is right now, Slade. Like, come on.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. So, um, so then Slade's like, I mean, she made a gay slur.
When you search Tamra and gay slur, she comes up on the internet.

Speaker 2 Well, of course she comes up because you typed in her name, you idiot.

Speaker 1 So Gretchen's like, I agree.

Speaker 2 So she goes back to the table. It's awkward.
And Tamara's like, did Slade give you any good advice? She's like, well, he just said he knows it's absolute bullshit.

Speaker 2 And he said, you don't have to defend anything. Like, you literally have to defend so much right now.
Like, please do not go to Slade's Smiley for

Speaker 2 your advice right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Slade also said you didn't have to pay your fucking child support. And that's still why you can't marry him, you idiot.
So Heather's like, well, that's where he's wrong, though.

Speaker 1 That's where he's wrong. And Gretzen's like, okay.
And Heather goes, yeah, you do have to explain. If you want your friendship to last, you do need to explain.

Speaker 1 and she's like mate you guys gotta understand this is brand new information to me no it's not and you must have known that this was gonna come in some shape or form you need to be better prepared you know no i think the the issue is that she knows she has this in the past but she thought it was never something that was going to wind up on the show and so that's why it's new information So Tamara's like, I don't think Heather wants to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 1 12 years I've been talking about you. 12 years.

Speaker 2 So Heather is really mad.

Speaker 2 And Gina's like, I think she wants to hear something else from you, you know? And they're like, we're going to go. We're going to go.
So they're all going to go.

Speaker 2 And Jen's like, you need to defend yourself, Gretchen.

Speaker 1 That's the fucking problem. I tried to give you the biblical thing.
You didn't even take that.

Speaker 2 Defend yourself.

Speaker 1 She's like, but I did defend myself.

Speaker 2 She's like, no, you didn't. I mean, this is sad.
Even I, Jen, Petranti, can see that you're not defending yourself.

Speaker 1 I even gave you a Bible as a weapon to swing at people and you still wouldn't do it. Like, I handed you the weapon.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then she's like, and then you called Slade.

Speaker 1 That's the worst thing you could have done is call slade so then they basically get a different car for gretchen yeah they're like she's not coming in this car so jen's like you know she needs to tell everybody i did not do this which she did do but they're not going to believe it so tamara's gretchen comes to get in the car and tamara's like no no no and emily's like gretchen you need a separate car honey And now Gretchen finally gets some fire.

Speaker 2 Now that Gretchen realizes that she's being iced out by the cast, she's not going to be in the sprinter van.

Speaker 2 Now suddenly she's able to summon the emotion that she should have had, the outrage that she should have had if she were truly innocent yeah she's like okay well that's fine i understand

Speaker 1 but you guys you don't you know it's not what i believe in and you're doing this to me and heather's like doing this to you

Speaker 1 and she's like she starts having a fit a tearless fit screaming like you guys why are you doing this to me i don't know where this is coming from i've never seen it i mean i don't you know this isn't who i am heather why would

Speaker 1 why would i have all these people in my life and she's like i don't know and then uh they're basically like leave. And then those tears, there's no tears.
Her sheet is dropping around and acts.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Dry face.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's like, fuck these people and walks off to her own car.
And I mean, I think we pretty much see the fakery right there. Well, loser.

Speaker 2 So then Tamara's like, do you guys understand why this entire year I've been so fucking annoyed?

Speaker 1 She's not a good person.

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. This sounds like these homophobic

Speaker 2 likes have really been weighing heavily on you, Tamara, which is why you didn't mention them at all at any moment.

Speaker 2 You didn't even allude to thing.

Speaker 1 Tamara didn't even do her classic thing. Like, I met things.

Speaker 2 I've seen things. It's not good.

Speaker 1 She didn't even do that. Yeah.
And saying, like, you see what I've been saying this whole year? This whole year, we've seen you trying to make up with Gretchen and make a truce with Gretchen.

Speaker 1 And just today in this episode, you made a friendship pack with Gretchen. So stop.
Please get off the ally hill. You're not like the queen of the allies here.
Okay.

Speaker 1 The only reason you give a shit is because you can hurt Gretchen with it. You don't want any awards.
You are just

Speaker 1 glad.

Speaker 2 I'm speaking so much truth today.

Speaker 1 Like you are. People are such fucking hypocrites.
I can't, especially with Tamara. It's like, congratulations.
It's like you called the fire department when the house was already burnt down.

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Speaker 2 So now it's the next day, and everyone's in the car going to the airport. And Gina kicks off the scene with a variation on her trademark.
I felt awful about the way that dinner went.

Speaker 1 I felt awful. And that's like, I didn't sleep until 3.45.
She's like, but I went in the actual bed. Oh, God, this really, this is when I started losing my mind.
I know I've already lost my mind today.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to stay calm. I know I'm not really staying calm, but I told myself going into this, I wouldn't go too crazy today.
I'm trying. Okay.
But watching the show,

Speaker 2 everything you're saying is so, everything you're saying is so true and it's so real. And

Speaker 1 I think you just, I think you're doing things, but I'm just like, okay, veins don't pop out. But this, when I'm watching the show, this is what really killed me.

Speaker 1 When we saw what they were were gonna do i was like you've got to be kidding me bravo so gina's like well i went to the actual pages of the people and she does follow these accounts okay case closed then because honestly some of these accounts are so disgusting that even that is enough for me to convict but she's like but then i went to the posts that she supposedly liked and i can't find one really maybe it's because this was all in the press recently and slade went back and unliked every single post yes duh exactly Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, they're like, what, over your old? And you're like, yeah, but like, I can't find the actual proof.

Speaker 2 So what sort of proof did you get when you ran Katie off the show? Just wondering. So Tamara's like, exactly.
Did she just go and unlike these accounts? So Emily's like, well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 That's the question. You can't just sit across from someone and accuse them of doing something without knowing for sure.
And then here we are judging her reply.

Speaker 1 And maybe she was just in shock and didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2 And basically, like,

Speaker 1 like Emily says that Grecian's response did bother her, but like, we have to decipher what happened in real time without a lot of information. I mean,

Speaker 2 really? This was not like one post that someone docked. It's like an enormous, an enormous amount of screenshots that are out there.

Speaker 1 Also, this argument doesn't work that you're processing this in real time because you've had these posts for two to three weeks by your own admission.

Speaker 1 Tamara gave you this information two to three weeks ago. So if you really wanted to do all this proof and you really wanted to do all this, why weren't you looking this shit up then?

Speaker 1 Why are you only looking it up now? You're acting like you're, you're acting like you never had time to do this. You've had these posts for over a year.

Speaker 2 So Emily is like, I'm just going to go to sleep and wake up the next day.

Speaker 1 You just

Speaker 1 can't like just wake up smiling, happy about this.

Speaker 2 So Heather feels, you know, she's like, feels bad, like she feels terrible because it's a triggering conversation.

Speaker 2 And she obviously like saw red when it all happened. And Heather's like, you know, but she's also a friend for a long time.

Speaker 1 So I don't know.

Speaker 2 Gretchen's always been really kind to me and my family. I would hate to ever accuse someone of something that's not true.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I have to know what they, what they've talked.

Speaker 2 I have to know what they talked about in the offseason that made Heather follow Gretchen again. And I'm sure it's going to come out in the reunion.

Speaker 1 Yeah, who knows? Because I saw a preview for the reunion and it doesn't look like Gretchen's like, okay, I did say those things and I'm different. I've learned.
It's nothing like that.

Speaker 1 She's blaming everybody else and saying it's all fake, like somebody hacked her or something. So I don't know what happened either, but it's crazy that that happened.
So it'll be interesting to see.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 Heather's like, you know, I said, I hope this isn't true. And Gretchen said it isn't.
So I guess we'll find out. And Gina's like, but guys, okay, it's my finale.
I feel really, really, really bad.

Speaker 1 Okay. And I want to bring something based on information that I thought was true, but now I'm not sure it's true.
So I don't know. I'm just not sure.

Speaker 1 Take a look at the internet. She still follows and then tell me it's not true.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's true. It's true.
So Gina's like, well, I mean, she's singing she didn't do it, you know? So she seemed like very confused by it.

Speaker 2 It's funny. I wonder if Gretchen thinks that, I wonder if Gretchen feels like she deserves a second chance and for people to understand her.
And I wonder if she feels like

Speaker 2 she's banging her head against the wall because the group has already made a decision about her and now she's been, you know.

Speaker 2 kicked out. I wonder and I wonder if she feels those things and then she has any sort of reflection about Katie because of course, she doesn't.
Of course, she doesn't.

Speaker 2 Not to make it all about Katie, but I love, I love going, I love finding

Speaker 2 that situation.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's just so, yeah, they're hypocrites.
So Emily's like, yeah, she should have said, fuck you for Tambora for bringing this up.

Speaker 1 You guys brought it up, actually. And Gina's like, this just goes back to the root of the problem.
You know, like you, you and Gretchen go tit for tat all the time. I'm removing myself.

Speaker 1 And Tamra's like, oh, so now it's my fault. And they're all like, oh, yeah.
Gina declaring that she's laid.

Speaker 2 Gina declaring that she's removing herself from the tit for tap between two people is now becoming a tradition on Orange County.

Speaker 2 Like every, at the end of every season, I'm going to remove myself because you're such a fucking idiot. You get, you get played so easily.

Speaker 2 You were such an obvious chess piece for everyone on this show.

Speaker 2 And like every time she announces that she's going to no longer, no longer be part of the manipulations, she just falls into someone else's trap.

Speaker 1 And it's always right after she does the thing that she was being tricked into doing.

Speaker 1 It's like you walked in there with the bomb vest and now you you exploded it and you're like well i'm not doing that anymore it's like oh idiot

Speaker 1 so tamara's like oh god you're gonna make it seem like it's my fault and emily's like no or just say that you guys keep coming after each other about stuff you see online and she's like oh my god i don't want to be around her like i don't fight with her she's a terrible person and gina's like you know they they go on about this and tamara's like you know how much am i supposed to take from this girl like all these things she can say about me and i just sit back no checkmate bitch

Speaker 1 yeah yeah so now uh she's like i'm not destroying my life and gretchen rossi will never destroy my life because i have a good life and i'm not out here lacking things

Speaker 2 so gina's like well she feels the same well that was a really good speech to amra she feels the same way and now look at the position she's in well maybe she did it to herself because maybe karma's a bitch

Speaker 1 so now god So now we go to one week later at Gretcher's house. So Slade's like, how you holding up, honey? And she's like, Oh, I'm trying to pretend I'm okay.

Speaker 1 And she's so depressed because her friends are questioning her.

Speaker 1 And, you know, she should have thought to say at the time, show me the post, not a screenshot. Like, I wouldn't ever like something like this.
You did, Gretchen.

Speaker 1 You liked hundreds of things like that. And then you went back and deleted all the likes.

Speaker 1 And she's like, Yeah, the only reason I said I don't think so is because I'm seeing what everybody else is seeing. So, I mean, I thought it must be true.
Fucking stupid.

Speaker 2 So now Tamara is over talking to Eddie. She's like,

Speaker 1 my biggest concern right now is their retaliation against me and you. 12 years, 12 years we've had to endure this hardship.
I can't. I'm scared.
Hold me, Eddie. Hold me.

Speaker 1 I don't want to go down like this. They're going to attack when the lights go out.
Hold the kitchen on a candle because otherwise, we're dead.

Speaker 1 After production wraps, some of the women received DMs from a person with information about the show, which was not yet known to the public. Let's get him on the phone.

Speaker 1 So, Gina's like, oh my God, the account is back and now it has a different name.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Emily just sent me a screenshot and they said, I know you don't know who I am. I'm just someone who wants to expose the truth.

Speaker 1 And Tamara's been leaking details about the entire season throughout filming to bloggers and fan pages. Okay, then why didn't we know about this season?

Speaker 1 No one knew anything about this season before it came out. So where were these leaks?

Speaker 2 No, we know we knew we knew that Katie wasn't filming. We knew, I think we knew someone else.

Speaker 1 Not till the season was going.

Speaker 2 No, we knew, oh, before the season, we knew that Katie wasn't on the cash trip. We knew that there was a big fight.
We knew that there was like that maybe Katie wasn't filming anymore.

Speaker 2 So we knew certain things for sure.

Speaker 1 Oh, I thought stuff like that just came out after. Okay.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if you want to test my knowledge, feel free. I can prove everything I'm saying.
So then we hear the infamous disguised voice on the phone.

Speaker 1 Like the Jerry Springer.

Speaker 2 Matt Janella and like a mustache.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 everyone's online is like, that's Slade. It's totally Slade.

Speaker 2 So yeah, the voice basically is like, I know this, I know that. I think you guys went to Costa Mesa.
There is a detail about Costa Mesa. It was like, oh, yeah, you filmed it.

Speaker 2 You filmed at a restaurant in Costa Mesa. They're like, Costa Mesa, he knows everything now.

Speaker 2 But yeah, this person did no details, specific details about the shooting. And then the producers are like cross-cutting between what this is saying and actual scenes that happened.

Speaker 2 It was like the end of the usual suspects. It's like I'm expecting, you know, Tamara to like

Speaker 2 lose a limp and go walking off into the sunset after this scene. They're all just like shocked.

Speaker 2 And it's like, oh my God, like Tamara is getting away with leaking info, yet holding Katie accountable for doing the exact same thing.

Speaker 2 So the first thing I'm going to do is not call Katie and apologize to her.

Speaker 1 So one thing I want to point out that we didn't mention is in Slade and Gretchen's thing, one of the last things he said in that scene is, I'm going to get to the bottom of where they came from and I'm going to find out who's the owner of this freaking page.

Speaker 1 So I think

Speaker 1 Slade has a lot to do with this, what's going on here at the end because this totally seems like revenge because Slade could have called whoever this person is and told him all of those details too, you know?

Speaker 1 But that said, I 100% believe that Tamra was doing this. So I believe that Tamara does it.
I think a lot of them do it. I think Tamra's been guilty of this for years and everybody knows it.

Speaker 1 She got caught in that, she got caught in one of these things with that blonde hair,

Speaker 1 blue, black heart Twitter guy who, you know, she was fighting with him over stuff that she had told him and then he turned against her.

Speaker 1 I mean, she's been having this problem with bloggers and stuff for years. So I 100%

Speaker 1 believe this about Tamara. However, none of this matters.
It's not what we're talking about. The point is Gretchen.
The point is Gretchen's posts.

Speaker 1 And now they're all making it that Tamara has been talking. Who cares? We know that Tamra talks to bloggers.
We've known it for years. It's, it's a well-known out-of-the-clock.
It's not a secret.

Speaker 1 Gretchen still likes those posts. So now, what are you guys saying? Are you saying that Gretchen faked all of this? I want to hear you say it.

Speaker 2 No, I don't. I actually, to me, I didn't see this as like anything that like negates what Gretchen did.

Speaker 2 I think it's just showing that like it's saying, you know, Tamara is fucking messy also, and that they, I feel like it's a weird, like a weird resolution for Katie, honestly i think it was their way of saying like look and look at what tamara does too now tune in next week for the reunion i think that's kind of what it was it was like a it was like a little something to queue up the reunion be like let's give it let's get it to her girls um okay but i did i actually really liked it

Speaker 1 with getting gretchen and slate off off the hook

Speaker 2 off although it did probably get them off watching tamara finally get her at the end i really liked your theory that you said earlier because of course i didn't think of it it didn't even occur to me but i I liked your conspiracy theory that the producers were angry that Tamra brought this onto the show.

Speaker 2 So the revenge is that they're going to expose Tamra for being, for leaking to the press. I think that's like a pretty good, you know, conspiracy theory, BTS.

Speaker 2 But I didn't, but it did not, the scene, regardless of that theory, irregardless, I don't think the scene read to me as a, you know what, like we shouldn't, we shouldn't be,

Speaker 2 let me start over again.

Speaker 2 The scene did not read to me like it was exonerating Gretchen. It just read to me like, you know what? Tamara is acting high and mighty, but she's also down there in the dirt.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, they sure get Tamara at the end of this. Although I will point out, just to be fair, there is no proof except this one person's word.
Where's the screenshots? Where's the text? Where's the DMs?

Speaker 1 So I don't know. I believe that Tamara.

Speaker 2 Heather gets so mad at at you heather gets so mad at you that you messed up her line well heather doesn't even bring them heather's the one who made up the whole receipts proof timeline and she has none of that in in salt lake city but we'll get to that we'll get to that next i i think i would like going forward and i said this at the end of the salt lake city recap i think that bravo needs to rein in some of this like uh who leaked what to the press i just don't think this is the most compelling content and i think it's actually a little toxic for these shows.

Speaker 2 Salt Lake City is fine because Salt Lake City is so funny. They can argue about anything.
But I think it gets away from the central premise of what

Speaker 2 watching a real household show is about. We want it to be about dynamics amongst the women.
And yes, of course, arguing about who leaked what does bring out those dynamics.

Speaker 2 But I just think it's too much stuff about stuff that happens in between seasons and off camera. And I don't think it's a good move.
I think it was bad when it it happened on Beverly Hills.

Speaker 2 I think it's bad when it's happening now. I think it puts Salt Lake City in a risky position.

Speaker 2 So I think going forward, I would love it if Bravo kind of, when these things happen, Bravo says, we're not talking, we're not fighting about that.

Speaker 2 It's too abstract.

Speaker 1 Or have like a zero meta,

Speaker 1 you know, have like a zero tolerance thing where if you're caught doing it, you're fired. Yeah.
And that's it.

Speaker 1 You know, like do something to put a stop to it instead of leaning into it and making it a plot line on every single show. Cause I think you're right it's like enough

Speaker 2 enough yeah it's too much like like the the the best parts of the show is when we see someone say something or do something

Speaker 2 about their life or whatever and then people react to it and it becomes a thing like the most compelling seasons are when a friend stops being friends with someone else and starts being friends with someone else and you and we and we weigh in on why did that friendship fall apart or oh this person's not treating this person well but like how but to like kind of like every week have to weigh in on who leaked what did they leak Are we on their side?

Speaker 2 It's actually a bit tiresome for me. Like it's not this.

Speaker 2 It's not a debate that I fundamentally care about. I actually don't care who leaked what because ultimately I think they all leak.
I think they all say things.

Speaker 2 And I don't, like, I'm sort of sick of having to guess whether or not did maybe Katie said it as like she didn't think it was a big deal or maybe she said it like this and was misheard this.

Speaker 2 Like how many times I have to talk about a game of telephone? Like, I think it's time for Bravo to definitely like tighten up this ship across the board on all their shows.

Speaker 1 I agree. Just to play devil's advocate, though, the social media, the social media, social media has been another character on this show for years.

Speaker 1 I mean, we even have a character on this show named Sushal Medea, because before they could say Twitter and all of that, they would say, you know, we've, we heard this

Speaker 1 from somewhere, someone. And so we would always say, and now the bitchiest housewife of all time, Sushal Medea, comes to the stage.

Speaker 1 Because it was always a character on the show, like what you got caught saying about

Speaker 1 on whatever. They didn't even allow them to say Twitter or whatever forever.

Speaker 1 And then once they started allowing it, it made it, it was kind of cool at first because it was like, oh, now they're calling, it's like behind the scenes stuff where it's like, okay, now they're calling themselves out.

Speaker 1 About the TV show stuff, which is interesting. I think that brought a really interesting dynamic.
But it's, yeah, I think it's gotten to the point where it's just like, it's the whole show now.

Speaker 1 It's every plot on every show is like, who's talking to some fucking loser on Twitter, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And like, I don't mind if there's drama that's going to be a lot of people.
No offense to people from Twitter.

Speaker 1 Not calling you losers, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But like, you know, if someone, if Whitney Rose goes and writes a tweet that's obnoxious, let's say, and then Lisa Barlow sees it and gets annoyed at her, that's fair.

Speaker 2 Like, cause that's, you know, social media. We, we live in a world with social media.
We participate in social media.

Speaker 2 And that's, you know, because, but we can see tangibly that Whitney wrote something. Lisa read it.
She was upset and she reacted. And that, like, that is a dramatic stake that makes sense to us.

Speaker 2 But if it's all like, you spoke to someone and then they said this thing about a thing and I can't believe you said that.

Speaker 2 It's just, it's too, it's too in the shadows and it's also too much about the show itself. And I just don't,

Speaker 2 I don't, it's just not compelling to me anymore. I, I'm, I'm a little over it.
That being said, by the way, I love this season. Everyone hates this season.

Speaker 2 I love this season, even with this dark ass finale. I thought this season was great.
I was actually very much into it. I thought it lost theme after Katie left, but I still really enjoyed it.
And

Speaker 2 I'm

Speaker 1 hopeful that it is our swan song for Emily and Regina. I think it's going to have to be a swan song for a lot of these people.

Speaker 1 I don't see how Gretchen is going to come back from this. I don't think Tamara is going to come back from this.

Speaker 1 I don't see them getting rid of Tamara, but I also don't see how they're going to keep her after this. I think

Speaker 1 Emily and Emily and Gina are just done.

Speaker 1 Heather didn't even bother pretending to live in Orange County, and her end card said she's not even going to try. It's like she ain't moving back to Orange County.
So she, that's two hours away.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's not like some close drive. It's not like just being in a, in a borough, you know, in a suburb.
That's another city. It's, it's far away.
So

Speaker 2 I think, um, I think, I think we start with Emily and Gina, and then we see how the rest of the show fares.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm, that's, those are my notes. I understand that Heather lives in Beverly Hills, but she, look, she attended.
She showed up. Tamara, I think, is our villain.
I think we keep Tamra.

Speaker 2 We don't get rid of our villains. Otherwise, you wind up with a Heather and Gina situation again.

Speaker 2 Shannon, I would like to see less wackiness season, but like Shannon, you know, I you always keep Shannon. She's always going to have something going on.
And

Speaker 2 I think they bring back Katie. I think, I think they will bring it back.
Katie is such a fan favorite that they bring back Katie. Gretchen not coming back for sure.

Speaker 2 I don't think they can bring back Gretchen. And I don't know.
Maybe they'll give Lydia another shot.

Speaker 1 Lydia. Oh, God.
That's all we're finding. Maybe Thank you, Janice.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. That's all we need.
There's more, more of that. But you

Speaker 1 mean, I guess, look, I just have to finish this season by just giving a nice, solid fuck you to Gretchen. Fuck off, Gretchen.

Speaker 1 All right. Thanks, everybody, for being with us this season of Real Housewives of Orange County.

Speaker 1 We will, of course, be back for the three-part reunion extravaganza to see what bullshit they're going to try and make stick to the wall this time uh we will talk to you next week everybody thanks for being here bye

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Speaker 4 Picture this. You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange.
The horizon doesn't look right. At first, all you can see is a thin white line stretching as far as your eyes can see.

Speaker 4 Then the line starts to rise. But it's not the horizon at all.
It's a wave. A 30-foot wall of water.
And it's racing straight toward you.

Speaker 4 On the day after Christmas in 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning.

Speaker 4 No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation.

Speaker 4 In this season of Against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive.

Speaker 4 Follow Against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Against the Odds Tsunami in Thailand early and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus.