#3083 RHOC S19E20: Liked and Loaded

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Speaker 1 Get ready for a night of excitement with Virgin Voyages. As you know, the Real Housewives of Miami took a trip on a beautiful Virgin Voyages cruise this season.

Speaker 1 But you know who also deserves an opportunity to get in on the fun? The ladies of Salt Lake City.

Speaker 1 We're about to join Meredith and Brittany from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City as they experience Virgin Voyage's vibrant entertainment.

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The cruises are child-free, ensuring you can party like a housewife without any interruptions.

Speaker 1 With all entertainment included in your fare, you're free to dance the night away. Let's see what Meredith and Brittany are getting up to.
Hello, hello, Virgin Voyages.

Speaker 1 Are you ready to hear a set from DJ Merlin?

Speaker 1 Wow, what a gorgeous club. I know her.
I know the DJ, everybody. I know her.

Speaker 1 Okay, Brittany, I'm going to need you to quiet down because I'm about to start my DJ set right now. Go, Meredith.
Woohoo! Meredith, can you see any bachelors up there? I don't see anything.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to focus on spinning this sweet turntable right now because I'm a DJ. Hey, Brittany, are you recording me? Are you recording me? No, I wasn't recording you at all.

Speaker 1 I was just trying to take a selfie. You can't record me while I'm doing my DJ set.

Speaker 1 I just have my phone out because I was using the calculator until I realized there's no bill here, so I don't even have to come up with a tip.

Speaker 1 You're lying, Brittany, and I don't appreciate liars while I'm DJing for all these people in the club. I only have my phone out because I was playing Candy Crush while you were trying to DJ.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. I was trying to save my ears.
You're not, you're not, and you can leave.

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Speaker 1 crap ends.

Speaker 1 Watch what crap is.

Speaker 1 What happens with this? So much that crap ends.

Speaker 1 Well, hello, and welcome to Watch What Craps, a podcast about all that crap on Bravo that we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker and joining me this morning is the one and only Ronnie Caram.

Speaker 1 Hey Ronnie, what's going on? Well, hello. How are you?

Speaker 1 I am doing just fabulous. I'm actually here in Dallas, Texas today

Speaker 1 because I'm at a board game convention. I'm nerding out.
I went from Bravocon to BGGCon.

Speaker 1 And so I'm actually just telling you all that. In case my video or my Wi-Fi gets janky, I apologize.
I am on good old-fashioned hotel Wi-Fi at the moment.

Speaker 1 But anyway, speaking of video, if you want to watch us, not just listen to us, go check out patreon.com slash watchful crappens. You can access crap ins on demand.

Speaker 1 That's our videos uh we also have our bonus episode right after this we are going to do a trailer trash on the new real housewives of road island trailer that launched last weekend

Speaker 1 so get excited for a lot of dolores doppelgangers because that's pretty much what that one's all about um

Speaker 1 and aside from that you know we got uh coming up we got amazon live on monday everyone tune in for that because it's ahead of black friday so we know you're gonna want to get your deals okay and that's that's basically it from me What's going on with you, Ronnie?

Speaker 1 Just ready to rumble with some real housewives of Orange County.

Speaker 1 Fun times. Interesting choice by this show to just ignore Gretchen's shit and blame it all on Tamara.
I'm really surprised, especially with Heather Dubrow,

Speaker 1 who has, you know, obviously LGBTQ plus children and is always making a stand and, you know, always has a Trevor Project scene. And Heather is very much like, well, you're nice to me and my family.

Speaker 1 Who cares? Who cares?

Speaker 1 Who cares? So I'm actually pretty surprised by that. I didn't buy one second of that horse shit.

Speaker 1 So I guess I'd like to start this recap off by saying, fuck you, Gretchen. And fuck you, Bravo, for doing this.
This is pretty crazy. I mean, they're really just going to gaslight everybody, I guess.

Speaker 1 These posts were not something something that were made up and were photoshopped and put there. And everybody acting like, oh, wow, what? Well, we couldn't find the likes.

Speaker 1 You know, you can unlike shit, right? You dummies. This has been out since 2023.

Speaker 1 I mean, and that's the compilation. It's been out a lot longer than that that people have been talking about this.

Speaker 1 So it's pretty crazy that they all know that this was real and they're all just going to pretend that it wasn't. For what? To keep Gretchen? Did Gretchen bring something that I didn't realize?

Speaker 1 So that's my opening thoughts. Wow.
How about you? Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 it was pretty wild. And then segueing into the second half when they all just started piling on Tamara, that was the funniest thing to me.

Speaker 1 I was cracking up because, I don't know, Tamara just seems so caught. She seems so caught.
And, you know, this is aside from the fact that, like, why are we deflecting onto Tamra in the first place?

Speaker 1 We shouldn't be.

Speaker 1 But the way she's just got to be like, baby, Slade, obviously Slayton, obviously it was Slade. I mean, I played a lot.

Speaker 1 Look, I'm at a board game convention, and there's a lot of these social deduction games like the Traders and everything that we play. And she, here's how I know that Tamara is caught.

Speaker 1 Because she's acting like me every time I'm a secret bad guy in Mafia or something. Every time I'm caught,

Speaker 1 she's doing the exact same Ben Mandlicker techniques. Be like, but what about this person? What about Slade? I literally, by the way, and yes, anytime I play Mafia, I played Slade Smiley.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, it's not me, it's Slade Smiley.

Speaker 1 I'm innocent here. Slade Smiley's been bad.
People are like, who's Slade Smiley? But

Speaker 1 I was just laughing so much at Tamara.

Speaker 1 She was so funny to me this entire episode because she was like, you know, like the tears come on cue, but also like the way she just like screamed at Emily, which was hilarious.

Speaker 1 She's like, why are you an asshole all the time?

Speaker 1 I just cracked up. So as much as it was a good episode.
Yeah, there was a lot of darkness here and a lot of toxicity, but the deflecting was fun because it's been the whole season, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It started with Tamara deflecting all of the naked wasted stuff, which she thought she would be called out on by turning it into, well, Gretchen said that I, you know, gave her a date rape truck.

Speaker 1 So it started with a very good deflection and it's ending in, you know what? I don't even think it's a deflection. I think Tamara's right.
I think it's pretty obviously Slade.

Speaker 1 I mean, in the final episode of the season, when Gretchen is crying to Slade, he's like, oh, really? Well, I'm going to call the bloggers and I'm going to get on this and we'll get Tamara back.

Speaker 1 And then immediately they all get a phone call. He said something along the lines of like, oh yeah, we're going to figure this out.
We're going to get Tamra. Something like that.

Speaker 1 And then this happens. And now they all deleted the DM.

Speaker 1 Like, we don't even know who the DM was from because we just read it. And then we delete, he deleted it on his end.
So we never really even saw who it was. You fucking liars.
You are such liars.

Speaker 1 All three of you who are well versed by now in Instagram and bloggers and getting gossip and trafficking and gossip. None of you wrote down that name of who was sending you the DM.
You're full of it.

Speaker 1 I mean, I will say, I mean, Tamra's strongest point is that she's been on the show for years and years. And

Speaker 1 this is the only season where it's gotten like it's been a real issue like this with

Speaker 1 outside media. Although the funny part is that like the whole crux of the central controversy of the season is that she was talking to basically

Speaker 1 a reporter reporter of good standing. So like you,

Speaker 1 there's clearly outreach that happens.

Speaker 1 But I mean, I would love to say that it's Slade because I can't stand Slade. And I believe that Slade is the type that would leak every single piece of information that he had.

Speaker 1 But they did seem to have some decent logic towards the end of the episode about, you know, like Slade wouldn't know this information that was leaking. Of course he would.

Speaker 1 But of course he would know because they just shot the scene.

Speaker 1 So everybody, everybody who is at the finale would know all of this information it's silly and uh emily's saying well how would i know you just said that you talked about tamara you talked about these tweets with tamara or all these likes with tamara and gina two weeks ago and now you're saying there's no other person that knew except gina and you well that's not true you knew emily so whoever you two big mouths talk to so the hypothesis

Speaker 1 is the hypothesis is that they are saying um only only tamara and gina knew that they had that conversation in that store and also of course, the entire production staff, by the way, who filmed the entire thing.

Speaker 1 Why is it, by the way,

Speaker 1 why is production never considered one of the leagues ever? Like, to me, it's always so obvious that, like, it's like there could be just some person, some messy person on production. Alex Baskin.

Speaker 1 I mean, same with Elkins. It doesn't even have to be.
Oh, my God. Who leaked this to the...
Who could it be? Oh, really? Well, might be.

Speaker 1 Alexia Baskin. I mean, it doesn't even have to be, it's fun to think that it goes that high.
It doesn't even have to be that high.

Speaker 1 It just could be like a messy field producer who's, you know, and we've, we've met a good number of them in our lives, you know? So it could just be that. And we've also met a ton of housewives.

Speaker 1 And guess what? They leak shit all the time or they try to, you know, they all talk.

Speaker 1 So it's not, it's also not beyond any reason that Tamara did leak stuff, but it's not beyond reason that all of them did. And I don't remember a lot of stuff coming out about this season anyway.

Speaker 1 There weren't like huge leaks. They were like, oh,

Speaker 1 guess what happens in episode three?

Speaker 1 Nothing like that even happened this season. The biggest thing that happened was this Tamara Gretchen thing.
I didn't hear about the date rape drug accusations or any of that stuff.

Speaker 1 I didn't hear about that.

Speaker 1 Did you? No, I didn't hear about that. I heard this thing from the season.
I heard that Katie stopped filming with a cast.

Speaker 1 I heard that there's allegations that Katie did something illegal, which is, I think, the Shannon video. That's illegal.
And I heard she didn't go on the cast trip. I heard things like that.

Speaker 1 I heard that Tamra had quit. I heard that she was back.
So I heard things like that.

Speaker 1 In fact, that's, I think, think, a lot of us were really excited for the season because there was so much stuff that was coming out ahead of time.

Speaker 1 But the stuff that they're specifically talking that this, you know, FBI witness, muffled voice person is talking about like, well, I heard it's Chris Samuels. It's just Chris Samuels.

Speaker 1 We really needed the shadow, you know, to him in the shadows. Like all that stuff, I had not heard ahead of time.
So, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 We obviously don't know who the leak is, but I just felt like Tamra, whether she was the leak or not, she reminded me so much of how badly I play these social deduction games.

Speaker 1 I'm like, she's lucky she didn't make it farther into the traitors and like was a traitor because she was

Speaker 1 spiraling in that, in that front chair. And she was like, her head was going left and right.

Speaker 1 And then like when everyone stopped listening to her, she finally starts crying to Andy. I just,

Speaker 1 I mean, like, the stuff with Gretchen was dark, but I have to say, like, to me, the episode was saved by the hilarity of this, like, wild goose chase.

Speaker 1 They all were on over the stupid leaking situation.

Speaker 1 Because ultimately, I think the good thing about it, you know, it is one situation where I believe Tamara of all people, which made me feel extremely uncomfortable because I never agree with Tamra on shit.

Speaker 1 But I thought what was super entertaining about it was that they beat Tamra at their own game. And I thought that that was pretty wild, that I do believe 100% this is Slade.
But

Speaker 1 it's also Slade beating Tamara, which is crazy. I never thought I'd see that happen.
You know, someone who gets just as down and dirty with Tamara and beat her at her own game in the finale.

Speaker 1 And of course, it helps that he had the help of the cast because the cast was like, fuck Tamra. I mean, Tamra's quit how many times this season?

Speaker 1 She's been a huge pain in the past in production and cast. They're all so sick of her.
You can tell. I mean, they're all saying how sick.
They're like, oh, God, did she quit again?

Speaker 1 Geez, and now we're letting her back in. You know, that's been a huge part of the end of the season.
So the fact that she got beat and the cast actually went and said, we're going to help Slade.

Speaker 1 We all forgot who we got this DM from. We all are just going to believe all of this horseshit.

Speaker 1 We're all going to pretend that we didn't see these tweets or know that these likes were going on the whole time. That means the whole cast decided to team up and get rid of Tamra.

Speaker 1 And I thought it was pretty funny because Tamara has been using these tactics for years and they got her. They got her.

Speaker 1 I mean, I also think that

Speaker 1 credit where credit's due. Tamara is such like an elite villain in the world of Bravo that she actually doesn't really even need to go to the blogs to get her to like to get her way.

Speaker 1 She just manipulates so well. And

Speaker 1 she doesn't have to do these tactics. And she never has had to do them.
So that definitely

Speaker 1 moves the needle more towards Slade. But I just felt like her behavior at the reunion just felt so guilty.
So that moves the needle back for me. I guess we'll never know.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure she'll be like, it wasn't me.

Speaker 1 And you know what? The ambiguity is part of the fun of it.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it is hilarious that Gretchen did the truly, like,

Speaker 1 of the offenses of leaking to

Speaker 1 quote-unquote bloggers, which, of course, there are no bloggers involved,

Speaker 1 versus, you know, liking homophobic, transphobic tweets like Gretchen's

Speaker 1 Transgretchen is the worst and it's offensive and it's like really terrible. And yet it's Tamara's that seems to be the thing that they really do all the roasting for.

Speaker 1 So, that's so that's so real, Housewives.

Speaker 1 Wow, transgression really works. I know, and it's also ironic on so many levels.

Speaker 1 She had a transgression, but a transgression implies that like she would normally she wouldn't do that, but she had a transgression.

Speaker 1 And the sad thing is, I think that she normally she would like those things, but she was caught.

Speaker 1 Yeah, um, okay, well, let's get into it tonight.

Speaker 1 The reunion concludes.

Speaker 1 So, welcome back, everybody, from exotic locales such as Amsterdam to New Orleans, Heather Dubrow's penthouse, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so this first thing is just fun.
We're doing mushrooms.

Speaker 1 Heather Dubrow is a cool mom. And she does mushrooms whenever she can.
I mean, the kids are gone, so why not?

Speaker 1 Can I say something?

Speaker 1 You know what image I think is most emblazoned into my brain from last week in the bravo con

Speaker 1 when we were we were backstage before our panel we got to go into the big um the backstage holding area which is where they pretty much kept all the bravo lebrites during the convention it was and it was like the size of a massive lunchroom and in fact there was just tables just this big long room big big big big big big room And there were all these tables, truly like lunch tables.

Speaker 1 But there was this big aisle. And you had to walk all the way down that aisle to get to the buffet.

Speaker 1 And we were walking up that aisle and I don't know if you saw this, Ronnie, maybe you weren't with me, but Heather DeBrux came strutting down that aisle like it was, you know, Paris Fashion Week.

Speaker 1 And she came right at us. And I think we were like talking with someone, because I would have said hi, of course.
I would have been like, Heather DeBrough, lady of comedy. But I couldn't.

Speaker 1 But did you see her? The way she walked? She strutted down that aisle like it was a runway. That was honestly one of the funniest images.

Speaker 1 And that's just what I think of is her with those her shoulders going back and forth like you better work

Speaker 1 work it girl televisions Heather de Brow

Speaker 1 I may or may not be on mushrooms

Speaker 1 no I didn't I didn't see that because you tended to see the bravo leverities I saw towards the end of the tunnel which was cookies that's all I saw I was like how many of those can I have what are those made out of you know I didn't really see anybody unless we literally tripped over them I know because I was concentrating concentrating on whatever calories were surrounding me at the time.

Speaker 1 Well, what was so alarming is, I mean, I, too, was looking at the cookies and we finally got to the cookies. And then that's when Shane Simpson came right up to us and it's like, ah, Shane Simpson.

Speaker 1 He's saying hello to us. I'm just looking at the cookies.

Speaker 1 Okay, so we talk about how wacky everybody is with their space cakes and their mushrooms. Everybody's really cool, guys.
And then we talk about how Katie

Speaker 1 she didn't know England was an island or, you know, what the Mississippi River was. And so, you know, everybody admits that none of them know, you know, and, you know, I admit that I'm not surprised.

Speaker 1 But I also probably wouldn't know either. I mean, I'm kind of a ding-dong with all that stuff.
So does anyone still have their painted dick from Amsterdam?

Speaker 1 And Gretchen's like, no, I just have a broken dick. That's all.
And Andy's like, wow, good one, Gretchen.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 who do you give me a special?

Speaker 1 It was actually the only sign that we had that Andy just wants her out of there. You know, because the rest of the time he was like, all right, I'll tell the company line and rally behind Gretchen.

Speaker 1 But for this one, he just went, wow, good one, Gretchen. Kind of looked back at his cards.

Speaker 1 Gretchen and Jerry O'Connell should do like a special together where Jerry O'Connell could be like,

Speaker 1 guys get their dicks broken. Women break their face for facelifts.
Am Am I right, everyone? God, men and women. Women break their nails and men break their dicks.

Speaker 1 Isn't that

Speaker 1 what you got? There's a straight guy opinion on housewives. Whoa, isn't it crazy? I'm a straight guy, but I'm talking about women stuff.
Isn't that novel? Oh, my God. All right.

Speaker 1 See you on the next episode.

Speaker 1 So then we talk about Heather shooting the scene about her dad in front, you know, pouring the ashes into the canal,

Speaker 1 which I still find kind of odd. I mean, that's like, hey, dad, you lived here.
And then you pour his ashes into the gutter.

Speaker 1 Love you, dad. But I guess it kind of fit.
Yeah. Goodbye, cocksucker.

Speaker 1 So we talk about that and how touching it was and how many similarities she has with Emily once they really talked and realized, like, wow,

Speaker 1 her parents are both kind of monsters. And

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know what else they had in common.
But it just seems like we both have sandwiches in our purse. Just kidding.
That's mace.

Speaker 1 Normally, I use the mace on Emily Simpson and people of the servant class, but today we put the mace aside and bonded.

Speaker 1 I usually use the mace on carbs.

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Speaker 1 So, Andy's like, ah, that's great, that's great. Okay, well, the season ended on a dark and dramatic note.

Speaker 1 To say the least, I want to start with the emotional final dinner in Amsterdam, where you all confronted Gretchen about her alleged LOL social media activity.

Speaker 1 All right, we're getting right into it, everyone. So now we're here at the

Speaker 1 Gretchen, Gretchen liking homophobic and transphobic tweets. So we see a whole clip of that.

Speaker 1 Gretchen, your media excuse about liking these posts was to say, hey, if I liked something, I probably didn't know what it was about. And that you weren't paying attention to what you were liking.

Speaker 1 What do you mean by that? And are we supposed to believe this in 2025? Go on. I mean, that many posts.
You just like that homophobic,

Speaker 1 transphobic posts, really.

Speaker 1 Accident. Total accident.
So, I mean, well, oh, go ahead. I was going to say, I'm going to say, this is not a defense aggression.
This might sound like it at first, but it's not.

Speaker 1 I have definitely been scrolling and I'll see like a friend just post something and I'll just like like it.

Speaker 1 I won't really watch the whole video because I just, I know they're happy with what they posted. And like, it's like a, you know, like, look, it's their, it's their child like climbing on a thing.

Speaker 1 And I'll be like, like, I'm like, I'm not going to watch that. But I know it's like, I want to support them.
So you like, you know, I'm definitely blindly supposed to be.

Speaker 1 And then you realize later they're saying like, oh, that was my child. Thank God he's trampling over trans rights.
Yes, go, child. Oh, my God.
What did I dislike on accident?

Speaker 1 The child's like, oh, the gay should go to hell. And I'm like, like, like, like.
But like, but like, like, like, there is a difference, I think, between.

Speaker 1 you know, aimlessly sort of going to and just, you know, supporting versus when you see like an obvious meme that says stuff about that's anti-gay like that's not something you blindly scroll by okay so you can't really use this scroll by excuse if you see giant text that's obviously about that like you you people you know what's on those those screens there it's you're you can't do you can't just act like you were just treating you can't treat it the same way you you treat content from your neighbor who's walking their dog down the street

Speaker 1 right yeah exactly so she's like well I want to make it clear that there's absolutely no excuse for liking anything that has any sort of um like offensive sentiment. Okay, sentiment.

Speaker 1 And I also want to make it clear to every single one of you that I denounce anything that's that maybe seems homophobic or transphobic or anything like that.

Speaker 1 Because I was just confused and I was shocked by what was bring being brought forward to me. Oh my God.
It's not cinnamon. Okay.
It's sentiment. But also.
Can we just fire her for that?

Speaker 1 Can we just fire her for not being able to pronounce eh and pronouncing it eh? She's seasoning her excuse the cinnamon.

Speaker 1 Cinnamon. I wouldn't ever post something with bad cinnamon.

Speaker 1 Also, by the way, I think one thing that we haven't discussed is why also has Gretchen not been prepared for this? Because the

Speaker 1 thread that is mentioned on this reunion quite a bit

Speaker 1 is is a thread that came up in 2023. It has been forwarded to us umpteen times.
I've seen it with my own eyes. You've seen it with your own eyes.
It's really long and really huge.

Speaker 1 I don't believe that someone went and doctored all those images.

Speaker 1 I believe that those are, they are real.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what I'm trying to say is someone... Surely has brought this thread to Gretchen's attention.
So even so, and in fact, it's probably why she unfollowed all those things.

Speaker 1 So why was she so, why, this, this, oh, I'm surprised. Why are you so surprised when this is, this is clearly going around the internet? It had to have been brought to her attention at some point.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, Gretchen, you're liking all this stuff and everyone's mad at you right now. What's your response to this? Like, someone had to say it.

Speaker 1 So she, like, in my mind, I'm thinking if you get, if you get confronted with this on the TV show, normally it'd be like. You know what? I saw that and I was appalled by that.

Speaker 1 And I unliked all those things because I was disgusted at my own behavior.

Speaker 1 And it made me realize like, I got really whatever you whatever excuse you're gonna give like how are you not ready with that but I think that in her mind she was saying oh god I didn't think this was ever gonna be brought up on TV and how do I handle this she is ready for it

Speaker 1 I don't know what you're talking about she's extremely ready for it she came with a plan well but her plan was to act dumb and then blame Tamara for doctoring all these

Speaker 1 well I guess that's what I'm saying she's just like what I'm saying her excuses

Speaker 1 I've scrolled around maybe I liked a couple of the things Oh, so you accidentally liked, we teach gender ideology in school, or it's normal for half of pre-teen classrooms to be gender questioning, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 You accidentally

Speaker 1 liked something that says, this is the trans influencer who went viral for flashing at the White House a couple of weeks ago about the,

Speaker 1 I mean, all this shit. You just accidentally, you just accidentally like something on Matt Walsh blog that you follow and probably still follow.
I mean, come on.

Speaker 1 No, but what I'm saying is that like she's saying, I was in such shock about these things. It's like,

Speaker 1 you can't give that excuse because like this was, this is from 2023. Like, how could you, you can't say that you're in shock because, because it's been going around.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying that she gave it when she says, I'm just, I was in such shock. I didn't, the reason why I didn't have a quick answer is I was so surprised at everything.

Speaker 1 It's like, you were not surprised. This had to have come to your attention.
Because she's lying. She's a liar.

Speaker 1 So she does her whole things and her whole bullshit. And Andy's like, well, did you recognize any of the posts that you saw that that Tamara showed you? And she's like, ah, nope.

Speaker 1 And Tamara's like, well, which ones are we talking about? And Emily goes, the bleep one, which, I mean, that could have been. any of them, really.

Speaker 1 And Tamara's like, but you followed the account, Jill. And she's like, well, I know that you said that I followed that account, but at the end of the day, you get nothing for nothing.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I think we've all been guilty of scrolling mindlessly at night. And maybe I saw something and I liked it, not really looking at the content.

Speaker 1 Gretchen, it was like hundreds of it's like multiple things babe it's not two things yeah that's that's like me being like oh well it was late at night i just like you know casually like some you know racist anti-black memes but you know it was late at night it was like what no it doesn't work that way and for the record i did not do that

Speaker 1 So Heather's like, well, I get that.

Speaker 1 But when you have a good friend that's sitting across from the table from you, who's so emotional and so invested in this and really doesn't want this to be true, I mean, I get it. You were shocked.

Speaker 1 But what was surprising to me is that the girls had, had to say, go after Heather, follow Heather.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you're not, you're more upset that she didn't follow you to comfort you than you are at the post. Like, this is just, this whole episode is fucking mind-boggling to me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it is, it is hilarious that, that that's, that's her takeaway, which is like, I had to walk away from the table, a celebrity who has been on Reba mcintyre show bitch

Speaker 1 and you still didn't follow me that you saw a celebrity walking away and you didn't even ask for their autograph

Speaker 1 if a celebrity falls in a forest in amsterdam does it still get people wanting autographs a philosophical question for the ages If a celebrity falls down but nobody's there to hear it, were they a celebrity at all?

Speaker 1 Somebody check on Reba.

Speaker 1 If a celebrity falls down and no one is there to hear it, does that mean that they are just Wendy Malik

Speaker 1 oh

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 so Gretchen's like but I was legitimately like what wait are they even serious about this and also she seems completely benzoed out right it's like yeah I was like are they even serious like Who's saying this?

Speaker 1 Because fundamentally, this is not what I believed or who I was, Cinnamon. And Tamara's like, wait, she didn't know you were following all these hate accounts, really.

Speaker 1 And Heather's like, I mean, there were just so many. And she's like, no, no, I didn't know.
I didn't know.

Speaker 1 You know, it wasn't just one. If it was just one, I would have rolled my eyes.

Speaker 1 You know, but the way it was presented to me. Yeah, it's 200.
Get her. Get her.

Speaker 1 Yes, 200. It's a lot.
It's a lot. I mean, like, when it gets to be as many hate tweets as the number of auditions I have on a daily week, you know, it's mind-boggling.

Speaker 1 And Gretchen's like, yeah, well, no, I followed a lot. And Shannon's like, whoa, whoa, there were 200? There were 200 on that feed? Well, yeah, she followed.

Speaker 1 Shannon followed over 200 accounts when she got back from Amsterdam. Which also proves how stupid Gretchen is.

Speaker 1 Because like you said, she had been kind of in trouble for this off-camera for so long and she didn't unfollow until she got home from Amsterdam.

Speaker 1 She's like, she didn't bother unfollowing until she was like, oh, I guess they're going to call me out on this on TV. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So Shannon is like, well, but how do you know they're all

Speaker 1 you know that they're all hate accounts? Yes, I know. And Jen's like, but you know what? You know, I'll tell you what.
It taught me a lesson. You know what?

Speaker 1 I thought, wow, I really need to pay attention. I mean, who do I want to follow? Who do I follow?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I need to pay attention too. I had to make sure that I wasn't following someone with anti-Asian shit on their thing.

Speaker 1 But I didn't follow Jen, so I was safe.

Speaker 1 I love how Jen's takeaway from every single season of Real House Eyes of Orange County is, you know, I realized looking back at the season, I just have to pay more attention, you know?

Speaker 1 When I learned that I didn't have any money to my name, I just realized I got to pay more attention.

Speaker 1 When I realized that like Ryan had been sending dick pics to other girls, I just realized I got to pay more attention. Girl.
It's like the ultimate thing for Jen to say. Wow, you know what I learned?

Speaker 1 I really need to pay more attention. Thank you so much for your anti-trans posts.
Thank you so much. She really taught me something.

Speaker 1 God, we all learned a lesson here today you know what let's all lift gretchen up above our shoulders yeah all i really want to do is learn in this life thank you gretchen thank you

Speaker 1 so much thank you so much thank you thank you good old jen always learning i mean listen i gravely apologize if if i like something that was offensive or had offensive sentiment in it but i will say that the one post that was brought forward it was very upsetting to me it was very suspect to me and it doesn't align with who i am it's like

Speaker 1 you are you, Gretchen. I'm someone who doesn't believe in gay rights.
I mean, I'm someone who believes in gay rights.

Speaker 1 So, Tamara's like, but then why would you follow people like that? You know, all this guy does is post stuff like that.

Speaker 1 And she's like, well, right, but I took steps to go and look at who I was following because I had like 4,500 accounts or something I was following, you know? So, like, maybe that's my mistake.

Speaker 1 I followed too many accounts and like, maybe I didn't know what they were posting because, you know, I follow left-wing accounts. I follow right-wing accounts.

Speaker 1 And like back in 2020, when the election was going on, that's why I followed those accounts. Yeah.
That's when you followed like the

Speaker 1 far right, like the extremely far-right hateful accounts. Like, what is, how is that an excuse? It's like, well, it was political season.
Listen, I was just hating on gays and trans people.

Speaker 1 It was, it was the political season. What do you want from it? I was just caught up in it.
I was caught up in it, you know? And he's like, well, it is a free country, by the way.

Speaker 1 And you can follow the right-wing accounts. You can follow whoever you want.
And maybe you should follow the accounts at bravo tv.com. All right, I'll throw in that.
Okay, so Gretchen, tell me more.

Speaker 1 So Gretchen's like, true. And I will say it was a good lesson for me to learn.
And so I went and I rectified it. And I went and I looked at a lot of the accounts I was following.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I do not stand for this. And I am not going to follow accounts that have this type of rhetoric.
And I don't know why I initially.

Speaker 1 Do you say rhetoric too? Did I make you say rhetoric? Because

Speaker 1 I've always pronounced it that way. That is my bad, and I'm sorry for brainwashing you.
Well, I can just hide behind the fact that I was doing a Gretchen impersonation.

Speaker 1 It definitely was not Ben Manlinger pronouncing it that way. Definitely not at all.
That's how I pronounce it.

Speaker 1 You know what's really terrible? For some reason, somewhere in the past three years, I cannot stop saying apropos as a propo. And that's not correct.
100%.

Speaker 1 And I don't know where that came from that's good apropo a propo of nothing however apropo rhetoric oh no I said rhetoric right

Speaker 1 this is the best part and I interrupted you so go go for it

Speaker 1 let me get a running start and what I was gonna say because it's a really salient point

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm not gonna follow accounts that have this type of rhetoric. I don't know why initially I followed it, but maybe they had a post about God.
Maybe they had a post about something.

Speaker 1 Damn, says,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I can't tell you why, because it's a lot of accounts.
And the reason why I followed something and didn't follow something, I don't know. I'm just a girl.

Speaker 1 I just follow things that say nice things about God. I don't know why people are upset with me.
I was just following nice posts about God. Oh, you're just such a fucking good person, Gretchen.

Speaker 1 I love it. I'm so sorry, guys.
I liked all these hateful posts because I love God.

Speaker 1 So sorry. Sorry you misunderstood that.
Andy's like, all right, let me help you out because you seem to be just doing all the wrong things.

Speaker 1 By the way, if you're willing, if you're following 4,500 accounts, it stands to reason that you're not seeing what most of these accounts are posting on a daily basis. There you go.

Speaker 1 It's a freebie, Gretchen. Run with that.

Speaker 1 What the fuck is this guy doing? This is so annoying. You know, this is really disappointing coming from him and Heather.

Speaker 1 Everybody else, I could kind of understand, you know, because I don't doubt that they're not following a lot of these same accounts. But Andy and Heather are really killing me.

Speaker 1 Like, you know what, Andy, I get you're a host and you don't, I'm not expecting him to necessarily attack her and be like, you fucking homophobe. What the fuck were we thinking? Or anything like that.

Speaker 1 I'm not expecting that. Okay.
I'm not a crazy person. But at least don't stand there and help her out.
Like, yeah, you probably didn't see him because you just follow so many accounts.

Speaker 1 Like, come on, sit down. Just sit this one out, please.
Jesus, she doesn't. She need any more help.
Can I say something to you as long as Rondell Caram is acting like I am not an ally anymore?

Speaker 1 Can I say something that will absolutely not let Gretchen off the hook? I've known you a very long time.

Speaker 1 And all those times, you've never gotten a role on Malibu Country. So I think when you initially said that, that was a lie.
But other than that, I think 14 years.

Speaker 1 You have never been anything but kind to me and my family. And I never believed that you were that kind of person.

Speaker 1 But I have people that I have had in my life for a very long time that I thought were that way and found out some very disturbing things that go against my family and my children specifically and everything I believe in and that it has shattered me and I will tell you that what I've heard over the years rumblings of this kind of rhetoric from you in different communities that I have always chosen to ignore but when I saw all those posts and saw that you liked them this is what worries me Gretchen Rossi when you follow a multitude of hate mongers what you are are going to see in your page is hate

Speaker 1 okay i mean nice monologue but you basically just said that you just took a very long road to say yeah i've known for a long time you were like this but you've always been nice to me so stop following stop liking shit so you don't get caught that's what it sounds like to me so emily's like well she's saying like you know like ours like dogs that's what we got on ours because that's who we follow dog accounts

Speaker 1 well i'm saying this: yours is Emily, yours is animals, Gina. Yours is Windex and other things that the maids need, etc., to clean my house.
And I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm assuming that Katie, I don't know what she sees, maybe just lies.

Speaker 1 And I see, I don't know, I see

Speaker 1 trips to Venice, etc. But Gretchen, you see hate.
You see hate.

Speaker 1 Well, my page, my page is all fitness and and possums falling in love and possums gotten trash cans and stuff like that

Speaker 1 i mean it shows what you follow and andy's like well mine's guys i like twinks and housewives i'm like diana ross was pretty much the occasional charo post and heather's like yeah i have kate decorating and folding okay

Speaker 1 And also, how to fire a butler. Oh, God, I love those videos.
I love that Heather follows folding videos.

Speaker 1 I want to make fun of that, but I too have seen my fair share of folding videos because I'm such a bad folder. I really am.
You know, I'm just... One of the.

Speaker 1 You're a bad folder. Go ahead.
No, I don't have anything to add to it. I'm just a bad folder.
Sorry. You need to watch more videos.
I have all of my staff watching them.

Speaker 1 And then I have videos of people trying to get past gates they don't have coats to and being electrocuted. It's hilarious.

Speaker 1 Oh, you know what I love? I love those videos of a dad coming home from the military and surprising their child. And then their boss gives them bowls to bring Zenobu.
Oh, so heartwarming.

Speaker 1 But Heather, you've got to understand that was a small percentage of all the accounts I follow. There were a lot of posts, ma'am.
There were lots and lots of posts.

Speaker 1 And Tamar's like, well, the last few days you've been unlocking problematic posts, huh? Huh? She goes, no, uh-uh. I told you guys.
And Emily's like, wait, what?

Speaker 1 How do you know what she unlikes and likes? How does the internet work? You can see if people like things and if they unlike them, that is, that's crazy. And Gretchen's like, yeah, that's weird.

Speaker 1 And Tamara's like, well, because I printed out two days ago all the posts that she still had lax on. And all but this one, making fun of Dylan about being on the Bud Light can.

Speaker 1 That's the only one that she still likes about you, Gretchen. Wow, Gretchen still left that one up.
She's like, still left that one up.

Speaker 1 That's the one that Heather probably hates the most because she's friends with Dylan. Dylan.
Yeah, I mean, Gretchen's like, that's where she draws the line. She's like, I can't fake it anymore.

Speaker 1 I have to stand up for Bud Light. I cannot know Dylan Mulvaney drinking Bud Light.
God forbid.

Speaker 1 Andy's like, okay.

Speaker 1 Andy's like, but wait, isn't that a good thing? Like, shouldn't she have unliked them? I mean, wasn't that the right thing to do? Andy, you're fucking killing me here.

Speaker 1 The point is she's deleting them because it's the reunion and she doesn't want to be caught. Right.
Not because she, not because she had a change of heart. And Shannon just turns to Gretchen.

Speaker 1 He's like, you didn't unlike the Dylan Mulvaney ones. She goes, no, I did.
She goes, wait, did you unfollow or did you unlike? She goes, both. She was like, I can't follow this anymore.

Speaker 1 This is too complicated for me. Sorry.
So Tamara's like,

Speaker 1 so Tamara printed out all this stuff. And is like, okay, well, so she just went through and she's unfiled a bunch of things.
Well, I appreciate the accountability.

Speaker 1 And it was a good lesson for me, which is, if you have a reunion coming up, always unfollow the hate memes that you liked that way you can like them again later

Speaker 1 what what was the accountability heather the whole i didn't mean to and i just scrolled things that i had no idea what they were and liked hundreds of posts and these are deep fake how is that accountability it's just

Speaker 1 They're losing their minds on this.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, I'm not going to say that housewives' audiences are always the brightest, okay?

Speaker 1 But come on. Are we really this stupid? I will say, this is what it really strikes me as, in all honesty.
It strikes me as Heather, I think,

Speaker 1 really likes Gretchen. And I think Heather is looking for

Speaker 1 mental

Speaker 1 workarounds so that way

Speaker 1 she can still be friends with Gretchen. Because I think it's too devastating.
I guess almost like too devastating for her to

Speaker 1 face this. That's what I really think is what's going on with Heather, because

Speaker 1 I'm actually surprised too. I think it's really bad.
I mean, it's your children here, and it's what you stand for. It's like you just did an event and we hoe during the season.

Speaker 1 You have Dylan on your show.

Speaker 1 And the fact that she's sort of like looking for mental workarounds, it's, it's, to me, it says that this is someone that she really, I think she's just having a really hard time reconciling the Gretchen that she thinks of, that she really adores, versus the Gretchen that is really sitting here.

Speaker 1 And I don't think she's really at a place yet where she can, she's able to

Speaker 1 kind of like deal with that i think that's very giving and kind of you to think that i um obviously disagree i think that she's doing this because she thinks this is too dark and honestly you're talking about

Speaker 1 a lot of people in the country that feel like gretchen feel right

Speaker 1 so there's not this is not something crazy that Gretchen's, these posts that Gretchen liked, these are not something that all of us are unfamiliar with.

Speaker 1 We see it as gay people, we see it all the time. We've heard it our whole fucking lives.

Speaker 1 And now it's kind of in vogue again to have these kinds of hateful thoughts to the point where they're not even hateful at all. They're just normal.

Speaker 1 And now you're just expected to stand by and listen to this shit every fucking day of your life as the racists and the homophobe take over. And that's just how it is.

Speaker 1 Bigots are kind of taking over right now. They're very in fashion and they're all patting themselves on the back.
And if you go against it, they will try and cancel your ass.

Speaker 1 And that's just how it is.

Speaker 1 like and i think that heather is not wanting to get into that she doesn't want to have to listen half that bravo audience at least is gonna i already saw a lot of the comments they were leaving on heather's um heather's instagram after the amsterdam thing when they were blaming them all for getting on heather i'm sorry they were blaming them all for going after gretchen without finding out that these posts were true.

Speaker 1 Like people are like, they weren't true. And you guys are going after Gretchen.
You're being mean and na-na-na-na-na. And calling Heather's kids all sorts of names.

Speaker 1 And I think that she's like, I don't want to tangle with that side of the country right now. It's not worth it to me.
And that is half our audience. And I don't want to hear it.

Speaker 1 And I think that that's where she's coming from. And I don't know that I really blame her.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 it is pretty disappointing if you're going to make your whole storyline about standing up for what's right. And then you don't stand up for what's right because it's too hard.
You know?

Speaker 1 I think it could be a mix. I think there could be a genuine concern about that because it really is an issue.
People are losing their jobs, you know, and they're losing a whole lot more

Speaker 1 because of bigots. Well, their rights, obviously, yes.

Speaker 1 But like for people just for saying certain things, you know, when there's like definitely like some bigoted mindset out there in the in the country.

Speaker 1 So there could, it could be somewhat fear-based, but, you know, I, and I'm not saying this as an excuse, but like in terms of like, how can someone be so strident about certain stances, but then seems to be kind of almost looking for, like when she says, well, at least you were accountable, it's like she's looking for a way that she can justify maintaining some sort of like friendly relationship with, with Gretchen.

Speaker 1 And that's why I'm saying, like, I, you know, I think we all know, we've all had people in our lives who are, you know,

Speaker 1 they are on different ends of the political spectrum and they do things that you're like, that's, you say, that's problematic to me, you know, but they stay in your lives because there's enough history and you know, you feel like you know who they are as a person.

Speaker 1 And you know, like, you're like, on one hand, you're like, I probably should, I should drop this person as a friend. I really should because I'm actually like offended by them.

Speaker 1 But somehow they stay in your life in some weird way. And we all know it's like, you know, it's family members sometimes that can happen.

Speaker 1 Luckily, luckily none of my immediate family members have that. I have no issue with that.

Speaker 1 And I think that that's what's happening with Gretchen, with Heather is that she's trying to deal with the fact that she's had this long friendship with Gretchen, that she's really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 And I think that, like,

Speaker 1 she's, I think she's just trying to figure out a way. But I think

Speaker 1 for us as outsiders there, friendship, it's like,

Speaker 1 how could you stand for these things? How could you have an event in West Hollywood? How could you have these radio shows? And you have these children that you advocate for.

Speaker 1 And that's all really wonderful that you do that. But how can you do that and sort of be oddly forgiving to Gretchen? And that's really a hard pill to swell.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not even forgiving it. It's not even forgiving it because Gretchen's not apologizing for anything.
She's just playing dumb and saying she never did any of that.

Speaker 1 And Heather knows that that's bullshit. She knows she is.
She knows she's a huge Trumpy. She's posting online with her hats and her this and her that and her anti-vax shit and all of this.

Speaker 1 Heather knows exactly who that is. And as far as people, you know, that we deal with in our own lives, of course.
I mean, I talk about it all the time.

Speaker 1 I come from a very religious, conservative family.

Speaker 1 I have these arguments all the time with people very close to me that I'm not dumping, but I am telling to fuck off every time we have those conversations.

Speaker 1 And I am trying to explain the other side to them. But when it comes to a friend, no, I'm not going to listen to this shit.
Absolutely not. When it comes to my family, you don't choose your family.

Speaker 1 You make that work. But when it comes to friends and people I have in my life, there's absolutely no fucking way.
And I think that a lot of this is just producer.

Speaker 1 I think production didn't want them to bring this stuff up in the first place. It's a huge can of worms.

Speaker 1 It's a huge mess, which they could have avoided by not bringing Gretchen back in the first place when you know all those posts are out there, you ding-dongs.

Speaker 1 But instead, they're just going to pretend, let's just whitewash this, let's just get over it, and let's just turn this into a fun fight against Tamra. And I think it's disgusting.

Speaker 1 And Heather is a part of it. So sorry.

Speaker 1 She's just as bad in my eyes. And I hate saying it, but

Speaker 1 you know, that's what I see. So fuck her too.

Speaker 1 I would have liked her to

Speaker 1 have been stronger against Gretchen. It was a little surprising that she was

Speaker 1 she she she she was

Speaker 1 her vibe was more like I'm just disappointed I'm not I'm not upset. I'm just disappointed.
And I would have liked her to be more like Gretchen, I don't care what you say. You like these things.

Speaker 1 This is offensive to my family. And I really expected a lot more from you.
And I felt like we didn't, I mean, we got that on the episode, on the episode itself in Amsterdam.

Speaker 1 But it was surprising that she was sort of soft on Gretchen, I thought, as well. Well, Mandy, too, coming up with excuses and being like, oh, no, but she did unfollow people.

Speaker 1 Isn't that the right thing to do? She's doing great, guys. It's really, it's just, it's a mindfock watching this, honestly.
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Speaker 1 So Jen, Gretchen's like, it was a lesson. I don't subscribe to it and I don't align with it.
You subscribe to all of them and you align with all of those accounts. So whatever.

Speaker 1 i would you know what i would rather gretchen just say listen these are my opinions and i'm sorry you don't like them but i have a different political idea than all of you and i think you know our right my right is a one whatever the arguments are for the anti-trans stuff or the anti-gay stuff the religious arguments against anti-gay stuff all of this that we're seeing every day every every one of us is seeing this every day I wish she would just have stood up for it and said, this is what I think.

Speaker 1 And I'm sorry that you guys don't agree with it, but it's nothing personal against you. These are my beliefs.
I still wouldn't agree with it.

Speaker 1 And I'd still be yelling and screaming and pissed off over here. But at least you would have some nuts.
I mean, grow some heels. You know what I mean? Be a real fucking person.

Speaker 1 If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe.

Speaker 1 Just like I believe what I believe and I'm ready for all the comments that are going to come at me and call me a reverse bigot and everything else that I hear whenever I go off like this from religious nuts.

Speaker 1 I'm, I'm, I'm willing to take it. So fucking take it.

Speaker 1 If you have an opinion, then be willing to stand up and stand up for your opinion you know but this whole i'm gonna do it and then just pretend i'm too stupid to understand what i did and i'm the real victim here because you guys are calling me out i mean that's what we're hearing all the time now if you call out bigotry we're the bigots because how dare you oh i thought you were you were the accepting ones huh yes but you don't accept my bigotry you know that's exactly what we're seeing here and to see the gay person and the person who supposedly supports gay person uh gay people um bending to that it's just gross like i don't i don't know i don't know what else to say Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, it's upsetting. It's very upsetting.
It's so upsetting. Upsetting.

Speaker 1 Forget back to the grammar. By the way, if you try to rob my house, I'm going to shoot you.

Speaker 1 That was in the headlines today. Mauricio threatening to kill people if they crazy.

Speaker 1 I'm glad that that's like now, I guess, the discourse that's happening in public these days.

Speaker 1 I guess it's the top-down effect.

Speaker 1 Just to lighten it up a little bit. Thanks, Mauricio.
Yeah. I actually also, I mean, I know we're trying to move on from this.
I also do think that there is a part, like what

Speaker 1 you touched on it, which is that like probably Heather just wants to move forward with this.

Speaker 1 I think it's an uncomfortable situation for her that there's someone that is a friend of hers, but the friend is also hateful.

Speaker 1 And it's just like, she doesn't want to, I think, deal with this right now on the reunion. It is more fun.
It's more entertaining for the whole audience.

Speaker 1 to talk about like, you know, grilling Tamra, about, you know, who, who leaked what, you know?

Speaker 1 And so she's probably putting a nice little like well at least you took accountability you know showing that she's the reasonable one

Speaker 1 and you know like let's move let's move on also there's this like I also do think that there is this pressure on on us to you know that

Speaker 1 people who are more left lean left have been sort of put in this put this label that we're like this totally irrational

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 left-leaning you know,

Speaker 1 mob who doesn't listen to reason, who doesn't listen to the other side. And that's always been our problem is that we're in our ivory towers and we don't understand the real world.

Speaker 1 So there is this like pressure.

Speaker 1 to be like, okay, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying.
And I wonder if that is something that Heather is also catering to, which is like, you did something really hateful.

Speaker 1 And I will give you some, okay, you just took some accountability.

Speaker 1 So I will grant you that but you know I'm you know and so you know that's also frustrating that like you know we have to do that all the time because we've been accused of being totally you know not let we've been accused of not listening to the other side but the truth is I think like when you've been if someone is saying hey like I'm gonna I'm gonna like this I'm gonna like this meme that goes out to a hundred thousand people that advocates for someone's rights to be taken away and advocates for

Speaker 1 someone to be viewed as lesser than and then could lead to some to violence against a person, could lead to me, for it to be less safe for me to walk around on the street without getting punched in the face or even who knows what.

Speaker 1 Like, I think you're allowed to say that's offensive to me without having to worry about like, but I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't know why we have to couch things when it comes to like rights.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, that's what this whole fucking thing is. It's like, let's just ignore it.
So, Jen, now we get Jen's spin.

Speaker 1 Okay, Jen, who acts like the biggest dummy in the world, comes with her spin to help out Gretchen. So, she's like, Well, but the post came from somewhere, right?

Speaker 1 So, if you're telling us it wasn't you, then where did it come from? And Tamara's like, Wait, the posts were real. And Gretchen's like, Wait, you mean the original post?

Speaker 1 And Jen's like, Yeah, I mean, where did that come from? Huh? Go ahead. Blame Tamara.
That's what I'm setting you up to do right now. And Gretchen's like, Well, that is the question.

Speaker 1 So, when I went home, I hired a cyber analysis company. and you, Heather, said to me, I need you to prove to me it's not true.
So I did.

Speaker 1 I spent thousands of dollars. You should have sent that to that mother who still needs the child support that Slate hasn't paid.

Speaker 1 Getting a cyber analysis done on these posts. And you can see it's a 25-page report.
The most egregious post is a fabricated fake post. Oh, God.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, Gretchen. So what about the other 199 ones? Even if we believe you, which I don't for one second.
And did they show which is the most egregious post?

Speaker 1 They didn't, right? They didn't. But I am wondering, between the lie detector and this cyber analysis firm, I am wondering

Speaker 1 what's going on in Orange County with these

Speaker 1 online experts. So Andy's like, well, it's important to note that at the time, he's reading it now.

Speaker 1 He's like, at the time of our initial investigation, the most egregious and offensive post did not exist anywhere online our system detected it may be a combination of ai and some other image editing software and the software is called technological and malevolent uh

Speaker 1 ratio antagonism also known as tamara whoa what

Speaker 1 would have thought

Speaker 1 We've been using software that's called, if you're gonna use me, at least give me a taco. Okay, and it found that these posts are fake.
And Tamara's like, wait, Mr. We have AI three years ago?

Speaker 1 I mean, come on. And Andy's like, okay, leading to the conclusion that it's a manufactured post and could not be authenticated.
Tamara's like, okay,

Speaker 1 well, it's probably a post that Instagram removed because it had the word

Speaker 1 the F word in there. And so Gretchen's like, well, this third-party cyber analysis company continued to do a lot of research on a lot of accounts that unfortunately were tied to Tamara.

Speaker 1 Was this third-party cyber analysis company, the Liberace Foundation, by any chance? Exactly. Exactly.
They continue to do a lot of research on a lot of accounts that unfortunately were tied to Tamra.

Speaker 1 So are you saying that Tamra was the

Speaker 1 Tamra was the honeypot? Like she was coming up with far-right, horrible, like gay people or pedophiles.

Speaker 1 She was coming up with all these posts to like trick you into liking them so then she could use those later.

Speaker 1 Because you've already admitted that you had to go and follow 200 accounts and unlike all of these things like we've already got that into evidence right where Gretchen has basically said yeah and Andy said she's doing the right thing by deleting all of these likes but now you're saying that these posts are faked so which is it yeah were they fake posts or were you tricked into liking the posts this makes no sense i wasn't really sure i think she was trying to say like no i'm not the like i'm not the one who likes to hate accounts actually the hate accounts it's tamara who's actually connected to them so tamara's like oh my god i would sue you fucking ass.

Speaker 1 And Gina's like, what does that even mean? I feel bad. I can't follow.
And Gretchen's like, okay, then sue my ass. No, I have nothing to do with this.
Nothing.

Speaker 1 So Andy's like, well, how did you find that post? Like, how did you find this? And Tamara's like, it's been sockling around social media for a long time, bitch. And it really has.

Speaker 1 Like, Tamara is not lying about this. It is, I mean, again, the number of people that have sent it to us, it's staggering.

Speaker 1 It's for years. It's been four years.
And it hasn't only been during this season. It's been a long, long time that Gretchen's been doing this shit.
And everybody knows it, including Andy, by the way.

Speaker 1 So what? Where did this post come from? How'd you even find it? And Tamara's like, well, it's been cycling. It's been around.
And Gretchen says it's not.

Speaker 1 And Shanna's like, well, you said it came from Two Teeth in a Pod. No, no, she didn't.
She said that it was a headline on Two Tees in a Pod.

Speaker 1 It was a headline that iHeart sent them because it was going viral this season. But that post was from 2023.
The one that compiled all of this stuff that they're talking about is from 2023. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think that also, I think the mentality is like, again, a lot of Bravo stars, a large chunk of them are conservative, right-wing. And a lot of them have gone and liked problematic posts.

Speaker 1 I mean, Corey Kiefer was up there liking anti- trans posts a few years ago that we caught that, we flagged that.

Speaker 1 And so I think the mindset is like, okay, we're casting people on these shows. They're from all different backgrounds.

Speaker 1 And really, these shows are to show how different people from different backgrounds interact in many ways.

Speaker 1 And, you know, that, and, and like, and, and the byproduct of that is that some of these people like really problematic things. And I think they're like, okay, that's that.

Speaker 1 But, but I think with Gretchen, though, it, it was really like, it was a lot of it. And I think that the volume of it is what has been

Speaker 1 so shocking. You know, it's just been, it's like, it's well, it's also not just liking Republican things.
It's liking hateful, very far-right things, right? Extremist things.

Speaker 1 And I think also your point about a lot of these people, I mean, especially on Orange County. This is Orange County we're talking about.
Yeah. These are the women of Orange County.

Speaker 1 So a lot of them, I think, are like, well, don't come after me. Like, shit, are they going to come through mine too? Especially you've got Emily up there.

Speaker 1 You think she doesn't have a lot of trumpy shit going on over there? She was reposting that, like, all those Save the Children, you know, QAnon posts

Speaker 1 a few years ago, too. So it's like they could all be caught.
So I think they're probably doing like, okay, let's have an emergency session here and just save us all from this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think between Orange County and Orange County and Utah and New Jersey, Southern Charm. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of, you know, right, right-wing, right-leaning, you know, people on Bravo.

Speaker 1 McBee Dynasty, hello.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But so it's, and the thing is, I don't think that either of us are offended by the mere presence of someone who is conservative or right-wing.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, you know, it's like we're here to see people of different backgrounds. But I think it's the fact that Gretchen,

Speaker 1 she liked so many of these, as you said, far-right-wing things that were really hateful and are about, you know,

Speaker 1 depriving people of their rights just to exist as a human. And that, and I forget what the rest I was going to say, but I think you guys can know.

Speaker 1 I don't even know how to explain why.

Speaker 1 There's a difference between having a disagreement with someone politically. So it's not like saying, oh, fuck all Republicans, blah, blah, blah.
It's not that.

Speaker 1 I mean, people are going to have different, you're going to meet people in life with different points of view.

Speaker 1 And you're just going to fucking suck it up and be, you're still going to have to interact with people. It's not that.
These are far-right, hateful. bigoted posts.

Speaker 1 And if people are saying, well, that's just, you're just disagreeing with me politically. It's like, oh, okay.
So you're, that whole side now is completely racist and bigoted.

Speaker 1 I mean, okay, if you want to take that title, that's fine. But yeah, I think, you know, it needs to be a distinction.
It's not like we're not talking about tax policies here, you know? Right.

Speaker 1 So anyway, so now they're arguing about where these posts came from. So Shanna's saying, you said it came from your podcast.
And Tamara's like, well, let me finish.

Speaker 1 And Gretchen says, no, it was just one Twitter feed. And Tamara says, okay, well, two years ago, it came through to Teddy because it was tweeted.
So Gretchen's like, wait, two years ago.

Speaker 1 And she goes, well, I don't know. I can look up the, up on my phone phone if you want the exact date that she retweeted it.
And she's like, no, but you said on the thing it was a year ago.

Speaker 1 And now you're saying two years ago. Oh, so you haven't seen the post either, Gretchen.
It was posted in 2023 and it was a compilation of your post that went back years and years. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So now they're trying to get her on the specific date Tamara first saw it to get her. And Gretchen's like, well, you were the only person that knew anything.
No.

Speaker 1 And she's like, I wasn't the only person. It's been all over Reddit.
It's been all over the entire internet. Right.

Speaker 1 And Gretchen's like, and Gina, I really like you, but it really was frustrating to me because I had someone call me and say that you were, you and her were plotting and planning together.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, I know. And like, but you saw, you saw what you saw, Gretchen.
And the reality is she, she brought it up to me. Yeah, I know, man.

Speaker 1 Gina doesn't plot.

Speaker 1 And so Tamra. Gina and Emily saying, oh, yeah, we never plot.
Okay. Then how do you explain having all of this information two weeks before you even brought it up? Isn't that a form of plotting?

Speaker 1 Well, let me ask you this, Tamara. Why, after you made up with her several times, did you bring it up at the end? Tamara's like, well, when did I bring it up, Andy? He's like, in Amsterdam.

Speaker 1 No, I didn't. I brought it up the night out there and stayed right after me.
Which is true. Tamara, Tamara told Gina this after that like country,

Speaker 1 whatever, whatever that thing was that they did, that event.

Speaker 1 And so she told Gina in Orange County, and then Gina just sat on it and decided to wait until the big trip, which is also pretty shitty of Gina.

Speaker 1 Let's also say, you know, like, she's like, oh, I felt bad. And this is like waiting on me.
I was like, really? So you waited until it was a group scene two weeks later.

Speaker 1 So, and also you waited until right after that they had made, right after they had made up.

Speaker 1 So now you're going to destroy their, their, this friendship that, not friendship, but like this fragile truce that you claim that you want so badly. Exactly.
But I don't plot.

Speaker 1 So Andy's like, okay, but you said you resolved everything with her. And then you two, pointing to Tamara and Gina, had talked about bringing it up.

Speaker 1 And Heather's like, so why didn't you tell Gina to squash it? And Tamara's like, yeah, you know, anytime I bring anything up, it's like, oh, God, here's Tamara goes. Here she goes with some poison.

Speaker 1 And Emily's like, but you did bring it up. And I'm saying what doesn't make sense to me is that you've had this for a long time.
That is true. That's a good point.

Speaker 1 But it's also a good point that you knew for two weeks too, Emily. You knew as well as Gina, and you also didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 So I think it does go to show that Tamara, you know, has just been sitting on this and waiting until she could use it to her advantage this entire reality

Speaker 1 this is like that spider-man meme where they're all pointing at each other all the spider-man they're all pointing like but you but you but you so and he's like okay so you said you knew about it for two years um and tamara's like yeah but i found about it two fucking years ago and i never thought about it again until recently when you came on the show and camera's like oh no that's bullshit yeah you wanted to figure out how to weaponize it against me and harm me and hurt me that's what you did.

Speaker 1 You used it against me. You used me like a hate tweets against me.
So Tamara's like, why did I bring it up the first day then, batch? Because I don't know, Tamara.

Speaker 1 Well, I'll say why you didn't bring it up, which is because you didn't think you had to. That was the nuclear option.
And you're like, I'm not going to do the nuclear option on the first day. Right.

Speaker 1 Because we have a whole season, you know? Right. We need this for, we need a finale.
But I also think production was like, we're not bringing this up. Well, no.

Speaker 1 Because everybody in production knew that this was going on. And I think they were like, we're bringing Gretchen back.
We just want to bring her back for the old fun of fighting with Tamra.

Speaker 1 But we don't want to bring all this stuff onto the show. So don't do it.
And now I think it makes them look all like assholes that they didn't bring it up.

Speaker 1 But they are kind of assholes for not bringing it up because this is crazy. Well, I don't think that it was even supposed to be.

Speaker 1 I don't think that Tamara's like, I'm going to save this for the finale. I think Tamra got to a breaking point because Tamra now has this narrative that Gretchen's been coming after her for 15 years.

Speaker 1 The truth is it was Tamra who was always going after Gretchen.

Speaker 1 But she was just, I think she was so fed up and she just decided, you know what? I am doing the nuclear option. I don't care.
But if I, but if I do the nuclear option, people won't really believe it.

Speaker 1 It won't have the same gravitas because I've used up all my credibility because I'm in this endless feud. So let me give it to some dumb-dumb to do it for me.
Gina, get over here.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Because Gina is the person who would walk into the Oval Office and be like, oh my God, look at that nice red button.
Oh my God. Oh my God.
I just sent off a bunch of nuclear weapons.

Speaker 1 I feel me.

Speaker 1 I feel bad.

Speaker 1 The code, it turns out the code was i feel bad

Speaker 1 all you had to do was enter that into the football sorry

Speaker 1 so gina's like well i think she brought it up in retaliation tamara says well why is that changing that you're a homophobic batch

Speaker 1 uh-uh nah uh i'm not and you know it i just went to a gay bar this year

Speaker 1 Yes, you are. You are so gross.
Yeah, but then you, but then, but when you say tied to Tamara, what does that mean, though? What does that mean that these tweets were tied to Tamara?

Speaker 1 Like, she made it up. Did that what that means? No, that's not what I said.

Speaker 1 There's a Twitter feed that Tamara happened to have on her phone that night and she was like, look at this and that Twitter feed.

Speaker 1 That was the only feed it was on. It has not been anywhere else but on your Twitter feed.

Speaker 1 And she's like, Gretchen, it's all over Village, bitch. It's all over Village.
She goes, oh, well, now it is because you started putting it everywhere.

Speaker 1 No, no, that's a lie. You're a fucking lie.
You're a fucking lie.

Speaker 1 You lie. She's like, do you know how many DMs that people have sent me that you're the one that's out putting that into the press?

Speaker 1 Girl, so now you have... DMs from Scottish.
So you're getting a lot of

Speaker 1 stuff from bloggers saying that Tambra's the one telling them, why are they communicating with you so much,

Speaker 1 Miss Lady who never talks to bloggers? And she's like, do you know how many people are saying that? Oh my God, can someone just buy this woman a G for Christ's sake? I'd like to buy a consonant.

Speaker 1 She can't even do it. She can't even do it.
She can't even

Speaker 1 wheel her fortune. She's like paying the wheel.
It's like, you don't have to buy the consonants.

Speaker 1 I'd like to anyway.

Speaker 1 She's like, I'd like to solve the puzzle.

Speaker 1 Trans people. We're going to stop you right there.
The first word is pants, not trans. I would like to pay for G because that's the gay in the LGBTQ whatever.
And I support them.

Speaker 1 I would like to donate money for a G.

Speaker 1 Can I say one more thing

Speaker 1 to Gretchen? Because, like, I really want to say this to you. In hindsight, was this something that I felt I needed to bring up? Yeah,

Speaker 1 because it was something that was brought to me and it was like a little disturbing to me. And I wish I had brought it up to you, not at like a dinner table.

Speaker 1 So, I guess what I guess what I'm trying to say is, I feel, hmm, I don't know. It's like, it's not so much remorse.
It's not so much, like, it's not so much sadness.

Speaker 1 It's like, I guess you could just say, I feel me.

Speaker 1 I'm young man.

Speaker 1 So now not only are they going to

Speaker 1 let her off, they're going to apologize to her. I'm sorry.
I embarrassed her. This isn't fucking dark enough.
Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.
Your hate posted dinner.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that when you,

Speaker 1 you know, liked all these things that advocated for the removal of rights for a segment of the population, that I approached it in a way that made you feel uncomfortable. I apologize.
Unbelievable.

Speaker 1 And Gina's like, Yeah, I'm sorry for doing that at dinner.

Speaker 1 She's like, Thank you. I appreciate it.
Cause I didn't think, I thought you and I had a good enough relationship that you could talk to me.

Speaker 1 Like, and if you knew, like, a couple weeks or maybe a month before, I wish you'd brought to me because I feel so blindsided and ambushed. And I'm sorry for that.
You know why?

Speaker 1 Because I feel glad. Just kidding.
It's the opposite stay. I feel the

Speaker 1 only.

Speaker 1 Wait, did you mean glad G-L-A-A-D?

Speaker 1 I don't even know what that means.

Speaker 1 Hey, everyone. This is the end of part one of this recap for part two.
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Speaker 1 Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondry.com/slash survey. Picture this.

Speaker 3 You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right.
At first, all you can see is a thin white line stretching as far as your eyes can see.

Speaker 3 Then, the line starts to rise. But it's not the horizon at all.

Speaker 1 It's a wave, a 30-foot wall of water.

Speaker 3 And it's racing straight toward you. On the day after Christmas in 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami.

Speaker 3 It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation.

Speaker 3 In this season of Against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive.

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